From london@calypso-2.oit.unc.edu Wed Sep 14 10:44:30 1994
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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 20:31:49 +1030
To: permaculture-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
From: cabel@metz.une.edu.au (Malcolm Abel)
Subject: Re: Permaculture FAQ project
Status: O
X-Status: 

>On Wed, 7 Sep 1994, Steve Diver wrote:
>
>> To permaculture-mg:
>>
>> This is a call for assistance in developing a 'Permaculture FAQ'.
>>
etc. etc.

>> If you have any ideas or comments on this Permaculture FAQ,
>> let's hear 'em.

To which Lawrence F. London, Jr, replied:

>How about someone building permaculture multimedia WebPages (WWW). :-)
>
...more discussion deleted.

I am very interested in permaculture, and related topics and would be happy
to compile some Permaculture WWW pages, I am sure they could be located on
my local site (www.une.edu.au).

There is a fair bit of introductory material published by the Permaculture
Institute in Australia, (they have an address somewhere on the Pegasus
network). does anyone know how much of this might be useful for the FAQ and
WWW.  I will drop them a line if I don't hear back from this list first.

I have created a few WWW pages for my employers as well as other MM stuff
and have use of all the necessary hardware and software.  I also help
publish the local LETS newsletter and have been thinkng of some LETS WWW
stuff too.

I don't seem to get much mail from this list (I must be one of the most
distant subscribers) so if I've missed some other discussion on this topic
let me know.

Bye.

Mal.

Malcolm Abel
Technician, Dept of Archaeology and Palaeoanthropology, University of New
England, Australia.




From LLOHR@agecon.conner.uga.edu Tue Sep 27 11:08:39 1994
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From: "LUANNE LOHR" <LLOHR@agecon.conner.uga.edu>
To: Larry London <london@sunsite.unc.edu>
Date:          Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:11:11 EST
Subject:       Re: tree information
Priority: normal
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Larry London:

You wrote

> I recently purchased a 10 acre rural piece of land in 
> Prince Edward Island, of which 6 acres is clear-cut - quite a mess. The 
> government reforestation programme has offered to retree the land for me, for 
> a very reasonable fee, but I have to choose the variety of trees, where they 
> are to go, and how the species are to be mixed. ... in fact, to complicate 
> things, they offer only softwood varieties. If I want hardwood, I have to 
> purchase them separately...
> 
> The land is quite steep, and the soil is good. I want to develop it for 
> recreation and to attract wildlife ... and to build a secluded house on top of 
> the hill someday... 
> 
I don't know about the specific situation you face, but I have a 
small property in Georgia that used to be a cotton farm (very 
degraded soils, acidic and no topsoil left).  I found good 
information by looking in books on Gardening with Native Species, 
which tend to be woodland varieties in this area, found a couple books 
specific to the area I am in.  The problem is that most commercial 
nurseries only offer species that are used in landscaping, and often 
these are not the ones that are native.  I also got help at a nursery 
that specializes in native perennials.  And I found some of the 
varieties that would work for my "reclamation project" through the 
state forestry commission, although most of their efforts are geared 
toward forestry for future timber production and my interest was 
animal and bird habitat.  

Suggestions:  If you have access to a university with a forestry 
school or a horticulture department or possibly an environmental or 
landscape design school, you can usually find a "native 
plants buff" who can help locate species sources for you and help you 
plan a habitat.  Some commercial nurseries also have specialists in 
native plants or habitat creation (As opposed to household 
landscaping).  Books on landscaping with native plants may give ideas 
on species to you, although they tend to lay out garden-type 
environments in their design.  My understanding is that the most 
important aspect of successfully naturalizing an area is the 
selection of compatible species, those that are normally companions 
in the wild environment.  This is also supposed to be more attractive 
to birds and animals. 

Good luck.


__________________________________________________________________
Luanne Lohr

Dept. of Agricultural & Applied Economics           (706) 542-0847 
Room 312 Conner Hall                           FAX: (706) 542-0739
University of Georgia        Internet: llohr@agecon.conner.uga.edu 
Athens, GA  30602-7509

From ammcguire@ucdavis.edu Fri Oct  7 19:33:32 1994
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subscribe sanet-mg


From daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au!vic@eepo.dialix.oz.au Fri Oct  7 20:02:10 1994
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From: vic@daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au (Victor Guest)
Message-Id: <2e9498a8.daena@daena.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au>
To: bchristensen@txinfinet.com,
        permaculture list <perma@cessysv.eepo.dialix.oz.au>
Cc: permaculture-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Getting started...
Status: RO
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>To: 
>
>Hi Mike, and all. 
>
>I find it best to add a piece at a time as you are comfortable and feel the
>need.  

Hi I would like to break into this discussion, and ask if through this
mail list we might consider getting a news group organised. I may be out 
of order as my knowledge of the net is limited.

I have seen postings by people who asked about a permaculture news group
and I couldn't tell them of one.

I know there is an FAQ being worked on for a WEB server, as we are well
down that track in Perth Western Australia.

This will help cater for people who are in the GETTING STARTED field as 
well as a forum to network more Permaculture.


>I've been learning about Permaculture for 6-8 years now, and i think it is a
>continually evolving field.  Each of us can increase our web of knowledge
>about the processes which surround us and our part in them for as long as
>we're here.  

I was working on sustainability on my farm, and on Permaculture since 
I left the farm, so some of my experiences are similar to you Bill.

I have had access to Internet for about 2 years.

I now also wish I had my grand parents to talk to about their experience
particularly during the depression, when the farm was almost a fully
contained unit.

I still have a memory of all of the smells and tastes.

>Bill Christensen
>bchris@txinfinet.com
>
>  
>  Sent via FirstClass (R) UUCP Gateway from InfiNet*
>    an online community for progressive information
>        Austin, Texas USA * BBS 512.301.2151 
> 

Regards,
          Vic
--
Victor Guest   V.G.Guest                      Perth, Western Australia
vic.guest@eepo.com.au                         3 McKee Plce Kingsley. 6206
                ----: Sustainable Agriculture :----   Tel. (09) 3092108
--: The Land Management Society & The Permaculture Association:----

From london Fri Oct  7 22:46:11 1994
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Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 22:41:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <london>
To: Victor Guest <vic@daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au>
Cc: bchristensen@txinfinet.com,
        permaculture list <perma@cessysv.eepo.dialix.oz.au>,
        permaculture-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Getting started...
In-Reply-To: <2e9498a8.daena@daena.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au>
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On Fri, 7 Oct 1994, Victor Guest wrote:

> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 1994 08:38:57 WST
> From: Victor Guest <vic@daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au>
> To: bchristensen@txinfinet.com,
>     permaculture list <perma@cessysv.eepo.dialix.oz.au>
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Victor, can you tell us how we may subscribe to your permaculture
mailing list in OZ?

> Cc: permaculture-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Getting started...

> Hi I would like to break into this discussion, and ask if through this
> mail list we might consider getting a news group organised. I may be out 
> of order as my knowledge of the net is limited.

I have thought about this myself and the newsgroup name:
alt.agriculture.permaculture seems appropriate. If you or someone else 
will write the statement of purpose for the group I'll have the newsgroup 
formed here at my newssite.

> I have seen postings by people who asked about a permaculture news group
> and I couldn't tell them of one.
alt.sustainable.agriculture is currently being used for that purpose; of 
course, permaculture-related articles appear in sanet-mg, 
alt.agriculture.misc, and elsewhere.

> I know there is an FAQ being worked on for a WEB server, as we are well
> down that track in Perth Western Australia.
I have a permaculture information Gopher here at sunSITE. I'd like to 
archive your FAQ when it's completed. Several of are working on one here 
in the U.S.

> This will help cater for people who are in the GETTING STARTED field as 
> well as a forum to network more Permaculture.

It would be a big help in answering questions about permaculture that 
arise on the net. The regular posting of FAQs would be an important part
of educating the public.

> --
> Victor Guest   V.G.Guest                      Perth, Western Australia
> vic.guest@eepo.com.au                         3 McKee Plce Kingsley. 6206
>                 ----: Sustainable Agriculture :----   Tel. (09) 3092108
> --: The Land Management Society & The Permaculture Association:----


________________________________________________
Lawrence F. London, Jr. - london@sunSITE.unc.edu 
------------------------------------------------


From daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au!vic@eepo.dialix.oz.au Sat Oct  8 22:27:20 1994
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From: vic@daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au (Victor Guest)
Message-Id: <2e971ea4.daena@daena.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Cc: bchristensen@txinfinet.com, perma@cessysv.eepo.dialix.oz.au,
        permaculture-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Getting started...
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>
>On Fri, 7 Oct 1994, Victor Guest wrote:
>
>> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 1994 08:38:57 WST
>> From: Victor Guest <vic@daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au>
>> To: bchristensen@txinfinet.com,
>>     permaculture list <perma@cessysv.eepo.dialix.oz.au>
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Victor, can you tell us how we may subscribe to your permaculture
>mailing list in OZ?
>

Well up to date this is a closed list, and I have written to the list
to ask for permission to include you on the list.

A list server has been compiled and should be available for this job.

>> Cc: permaculture-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
>> Subject: Re: Getting started...
>
>> Hi I would like to break into this discussion, and ask if through this
>> mail list we might consider getting a news group organised. I may be out 
>> of order as my knowledge of the net is limited.
>
>I have thought about this myself and the newsgroup name:
>alt.agriculture.permaculture seems appropriate. If you or someone else 
>will write the statement of purpose for the group I'll have the newsgroup 
>formed here at my newssite.

My thoughts on this are that maybe we should take the agriculture out of
it so that it doesn't get tooo long.
I envision that we would have news groups which reflect the diversity of
permaculture. Also to help us define the FAQ's.

I see things MAYBE!!! developing along these lines.

alt.permaculture.aquaculture.
alt.permaculture.design
alt.permaculture.energy
alt.permaculture.small animals
alt.permaculture.biodegradables
alt.permaculture.marketing
alt.permaculture.herbs
alt.permaculture.dryland
alt.permaculture.literature
alt.permaculture.culture.Re-evaluation co-counselling
                        .Christian
                        .Aboriginal    
          \             .Ethnic
          [:-)>         .ETC.........
          /
Once again I have posted this to the Perma list for comment, discussion and
ratification.

>> I have seen postings by people who asked about a permaculture news group
>> and I couldn't tell them of one.
>alt.sustainable.agriculture is currently being used for that purpose; of 
>course, permaculture-related articles appear in sanet-mg, 
>alt.agriculture.misc, and elsewhere.
>
>> I know there is an FAQ being worked on for a WEB server, as we are well
>> down that track in Perth Western Australia.
>I have a permaculture information Gopher here at sunSITE. I'd like to 
>archive your FAQ when it's completed. Several of us are working on one here 
>in the U.S.

We have offered to be part of compiling the FAQ's and to cache it here.
The webserver is up and running and an area for permaculture is being 
prepared with the Faq's being a part of that.

>> This will help cater for people who are in the GETTING STARTED field as 
>> well as a forum to network more Permaculture.
>
>It would be a big help in answering questions about permaculture that 
>arise on the net. The regular posting of FAQs would be an important part
>of educating the public.

We have a membership list of 726, with the new one ready to come out.
The numbers on E-mail is growing expotentially, and we expect to nab a heap
more at the AGM-community day-Christmas party, to be held at the Edith
Cowan University, on the 15th(16) of Nov.

Regards,
          Vic
--
Victor Guest   V.G.Guest                      Perth, Western Australia
vic.guest@eepo.com.au                         3 McKee Plce Kingsley. 6206
                ----: Sustainable Agriculture :----   Tel. (09) 3092108
--: The Land Management Society & The Permaculture Association:----

From daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au!vic@eepo.dialix.oz.au Sat Oct  8 22:28:50 1994
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Date: Sun, 09 Oct 1994 07:25:42 WST
From: vic@daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au (Victor Guest)
Message-Id: <2e972a7b.daena@daena.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Cc: bchristensen@txinfinet.com, perma@cessysv.eepo.dialix.oz.au,
        permaculture-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Getting started...
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>> I know there is an FAQ being worked on for a WEB server, as we are well
>> down that track in Perth Western Australia.



Sorry about omitting our WWW URL from the previous post. It is

http://203.5.184.1/

At the moment it provides general access info about EEPO people, and some
information of interest to the agriculturally inclined.

Regards,
          Vic
--
Victor Guest   V.G.Guest                      Perth, Western Australia
vic.guest@eepo.com.au                         3 McKee Plce Kingsley. 6206
                ----: Sustainable Agriculture :----   Tel. (09) 3092108
--: The Land Management Society & The Permaculture Association:----

From bettong.eepo.dialix.oz.au!warwick@eepo.dialix.oz.au Sun Oct  9 22:42:39 1994
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From: warwick@bettong.eepo.dialix.oz.au (Warwick Rowell)
Message-Id: <2e987bb5.bettong@bettong.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Cc: Vic Guest <vic.guest@eepo.dialix.oz.au>,
        Darren Longbottom <darren@eepo.dialix.oz.au>
Subject: Pc FAQ etc
Status: RO
X-Status: 

To: vic,darren
Cc: london@sunsite.unc.edu
 
Subject: Re: Getting started... (fwd)

Larry, could you subscribe me to permaculture-mg please.
I have not been receiving any feed although I thought I had followed
the instructions you sent me about two months ago. Help! Thanks.

>I have thought about this myself and the newsgroup name:
>alt.agriculture.permaculture seems appropriate. If you or someone else 
>will write the statement of purpose for the group I'll have the newsgroup 
>formed here at my newssite.

I would suggest most strongly that alt.permaculture or alt.pc is 
more appropriate that any other title. If in due course there 
comes to be enough traffic to warrant it, then there might be a 
subgroups(s); 
		alt.pc.farm.dry.temp,
		alt.pc.farm.tropic,
		alt.pc.village, 
		alt.pc.money, 
		alt.pc.smallanimal, 
		alt.pc.backyard. 
		alt.pc.zone0
		etc

It might be that other extant groups overlap with one of these 
sub-categories. In which case we use either name for a double
access pathway (??sounds about right)

Pc is a generic approach to a variety of human and biological 
systems that looks at the system as a whole first. Let's start 
inclusive.

>alt.sustainable.agriculture is currently being used for that 
purpose; of course, permaculture-related articles appear in 
sanet-mg, alt.agriculture.misc, and elsewhere.
>
>> I know there is an FAQ being worked on for a WEB server, as 
we are well down that track in Perth Western Australia.

Well, actually, we (EEPO) have a front page, and have started to 
talk about a Pc FAQ.. we have nowhere near the setup Larry has. 

>I have a permaculture information Gopher here at sunSITE. I'd 
>like to archive your FAQ when it's completed. Several of are 
>working on one here in the U.S.
>
>> This will help cater for people who are in the GETTING STARTED 
>> field as well as a forum to network more Permaculture.

I would see it working much better as a directory service. The FAQ, 
and the occasional chat between people who know, and a directory
of contacts seems more appropriate to me that the building of an 
expert system.

There are too many variables, and the intellectual task of 
codifying and compiling it all is immense. 

Then there is the much more important task of implementing each 
bit you learn.. 

Slowly slowly, knowing that it will take four lifetimes to 
start to understand it.. with enthusiasm!

Pc IS about building a culture, of grounded people, on the ground.
So let's use this medium as just that - a linking, an agent for
introductions. 

We must remember Bill's injunction about work-netting, not 
net-working. This is hard for us e-mailers..
>
>It would be a big help in answering questions about permaculture 
>that arise on the net. The regular posting of FAQs would be an 
>important part of educating the public.
>
Disagree - delete "important part of" and insert "starting point 
for" 
>
>This is the reply I got to the letter I posted to Perma recently.
>Please  think about the idea and let us know  your ideas.
>
> Do you want this to be an open permaculture list???

For others, an open list is one that anyone on the internet can 
subscribe to, at any time, for no fee. 

My view is that it could start that way, but that it would 
probably develop quickly into an honest sampling that invites 
people to subscribe to an electronic "magazine". 

An open list is like asking Bill to make the Designers Manual 
(with a better index!) available free of charge. This is 
unrealistic.

All my experience suggests that people do not place much value 
on stuff they get for free. Or that the people who do value it 
are most likely to be the ones who can afford to pay for it..  

I have now been placing my expensively accumulated knowledge on 
the net in rec.gardens and alt.sustainable.agriculture "free" for
two reasons. One is to balance out the contribution I have received
from others that I value - a reciprocation that I regard as an 
ethical way to conduct myself.  The other is to quietly "market" 
my viewpoint and my knowledge, so something like the subscription 
magazine would not be launched "cold".

There is a growing group of people attempting to make a modest 
livelihood from Pc education and design services, and we should 
expect to pay them for their accumulated knowledge and experience.


>We would provide a cache on the web for the Permaculture FAQ's, 
>as they are developed. (I think)
>
 _____________________________________________________________
|              warwick.rowell@eepo.dialix.oz.au               |
|                                                             |
|    Management Consultant      Permaculture Designer         |
|__"Helping Managers Learn"____"Helping Land Managers Learn"__|


--
 _____________________________________________________________
|              warwick.rowell@eepo.dialix.oz.au               |
|                                                             |
|    Management Consultant      Permaculture Designer         |
|__"Helping Managers Learn"____"Helping Land Managers Learn"__|


From bettong.eepo.dialix.oz.au!warwick@eepo.dialix.oz.au Sun Oct  9 22:42:39 1994
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          id aa11702; 10 Oct 94 10:09 WST
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           Mon, 10 Oct 1994 07:24:36 WST
X-Mailer: *Cinetic Mail Manager V2.1
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 07:24:35 WST
From: warwick@bettong.eepo.dialix.oz.au (Warwick Rowell)
Message-Id: <2e987bb5.bettong@bettong.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Cc: Vic Guest <vic.guest@eepo.dialix.oz.au>,
        Darren Longbottom <darren@eepo.dialix.oz.au>
Subject: Pc FAQ etc
Status: RO
X-Status: D

To: vic,darren
Cc: london@sunsite.unc.edu
 
Subject: Re: Getting started... (fwd)

Larry, could you subscribe me to permaculture-mg please.
I have not been receiving any feed although I thought I had followed
the instructions you sent me about two months ago. Help! Thanks.

>I have thought about this myself and the newsgroup name:
>alt.agriculture.permaculture seems appropriate. If you or someone else 
>will write the statement of purpose for the group I'll have the newsgroup 
>formed here at my newssite.

I would suggest most strongly that alt.permaculture or alt.pc is 
more appropriate that any other title. If in due course there 
comes to be enough traffic to warrant it, then there might be a 
subgroups(s); 
		alt.pc.farm.dry.temp,
		alt.pc.farm.tropic,
		alt.pc.village, 
		alt.pc.money, 
		alt.pc.smallanimal, 
		alt.pc.backyard. 
		alt.pc.zone0
		etc

It might be that other extant groups overlap with one of these 
sub-categories. In which case we use either name for a double
access pathway (??sounds about right)

Pc is a generic approach to a variety of human and biological 
systems that looks at the system as a whole first. Let's start 
inclusive.

>alt.sustainable.agriculture is currently being used for that 
purpose; of course, permaculture-related articles appear in 
sanet-mg, alt.agriculture.misc, and elsewhere.
>
>> I know there is an FAQ being worked on for a WEB server, as 
we are well down that track in Perth Western Australia.

Well, actually, we (EEPO) have a front page, and have started to 
talk about a Pc FAQ.. we have nowhere near the setup Larry has. 

>I have a permaculture information Gopher here at sunSITE. I'd 
>like to archive your FAQ when it's completed. Several of are 
>working on one here in the U.S.
>
>> This will help cater for people who are in the GETTING STARTED 
>> field as well as a forum to network more Permaculture.

I would see it working much better as a directory service. The FAQ, 
and the occasional chat between people who know, and a directory
of contacts seems more appropriate to me that the building of an 
expert system.

There are too many variables, and the intellectual task of 
codifying and compiling it all is immense. 

Then there is the much more important task of implementing each 
bit you learn.. 

Slowly slowly, knowing that it will take four lifetimes to 
start to understand it.. with enthusiasm!

Pc IS about building a culture, of grounded people, on the ground.
So let's use this medium as just that - a linking, an agent for
introductions. 

We must remember Bill's injunction about work-netting, not 
net-working. This is hard for us e-mailers..
>
>It would be a big help in answering questions about permaculture 
>that arise on the net. The regular posting of FAQs would be an 
>important part of educating the public.
>
Disagree - delete "important part of" and insert "starting point 
for" 
>
>This is the reply I got to the letter I posted to Perma recently.
>Please  think about the idea and let us know  your ideas.
>
> Do you want this to be an open permaculture list???

For others, an open list is one that anyone on the internet can 
subscribe to, at any time, for no fee. 

My view is that it could start that way, but that it would 
probably develop quickly into an honest sampling that invites 
people to subscribe to an electronic "magazine". 

An open list is like asking Bill to make the Designers Manual 
(with a better index!) available free of charge. This is 
unrealistic.

All my experience suggests that people do not place much value 
on stuff they get for free. Or that the people who do value it 
are most likely to be the ones who can afford to pay for it..  

I have now been placing my expensively accumulated knowledge on 
the net in rec.gardens and alt.sustainable.agriculture "free" for
two reasons. One is to balance out the contribution I have received
from others that I value - a reciprocation that I regard as an 
ethical way to conduct myself.  The other is to quietly "market" 
my viewpoint and my knowledge, so something like the subscription 
magazine would not be launched "cold".

There is a growing group of people attempting to make a modest 
livelihood from Pc education and design services, and we should 
expect to pay them for their accumulated knowledge and experience.


>We would provide a cache on the web for the Permaculture FAQ's, 
>as they are developed. (I think)
>
 _____________________________________________________________
|              warwick.rowell@eepo.dialix.oz.au               |
|                                                             |
|    Management Consultant      Permaculture Designer         |
|__"Helping Managers Learn"____"Helping Land Managers Learn"__|


--
 _____________________________________________________________
|              warwick.rowell@eepo.dialix.oz.au               |
|                                                             |
|    Management Consultant      Permaculture Designer         |
|__"Helping Managers Learn"____"Helping Land Managers Learn"__|


From bettong.eepo.dialix.oz.au!warwick@eepo.dialix.oz.au Sun Oct  9 23:03:00 1994
Received: from twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu (calzone.oit.unc.edu) by SunSITE.Unc.EDU (5.65c+IDA/FvK-1.07) with SMTP
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          id aa11829; 10 Oct 94 10:39 WST
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           Mon, 10 Oct 1994 07:50:45 WST
X-Mailer: *Cinetic Mail Manager V2.1
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 07:50:44 WST
From: warwick@bettong.eepo.dialix.oz.au (Warwick Rowell)
Message-Id: <2e9881d5.bettong@bettong.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au>
To: vic@daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au
Cc: bchristensen@txinfinet.com, perma@cessysv.eepo.dialix.oz.au,
        permaculture-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Getting started...
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>From: vic@daena.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au (Victor Guest)
>Message-ID: <2e972a7b.daena@daena.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au>
>To: london@calypso-2.oit.unc.edu
>Cc: bchristensen@txinfinet.com, perma@cessysv.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au, permaculture-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
>Subject: Re: Getting started...
>
>>> I know there is an FAQ being worked on for a WEB server, as we are well
>>> down that track in Perth Western Australia.
>
>
>
>Sorry about omitting our WWW URL from the previous post. It is
>
>http://203.5.184.1/
>
>At the moment it provides general access info about EEPO people, and some
>information of interest to the agriculturally inclined.
>
>Regards,
>          Vic
>--
>Victor Guest   V.G.Guest                      Perth, Western Australia
>vic.guest@eepo.com.au                         3 McKee Plce Kingsley. 6206
>                ----: Sustainable Agriculture :----   Tel. (09) 3092108
>--: The Land Management Society & The Permaculture Association:----


How about a copy on the email for us poor peasants who haven't got 
IP access? So we know what it says.

Wx
--
 _____________________________________________________________
|              warwick.rowell@eepo.dialix.oz.au               |
|                                                             |
|    Management Consultant      Permaculture Designer         |
|__"Helping Managers Learn"____"Helping Land Managers Learn"__|


From london Thu Oct  6 00:35:45 1994
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From: Larry London <london>
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          id AA27156; Thu, 6 Oct 1994 00:33:27 -0400
Message-Id: <199410060433.AA27156@SunSITE.Unc.EDU>
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 00:33:27 -0400
To: permaculture-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu, renew-energy@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Permaculture Workshop with author Bill Mollison
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Status: O
X-Status: 

From: mheumann@aol.com (MHEUMANN)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Permaculture Workshop with author Bill Mollison
Date: 4 Oct 1994 21:52:04 -0400

A permaculture Workshop with founder and author of Permaculture Bill
Mollison will be held on October 25 & 26 in Sebastopol, California. This
will be Bill's last speaking engagement in the U.S. for possibly a year or
more!   For more information call  (707) 829-8348  USA or email c/o
MHEUMANN@aol.com







From bettong.eepo.dialix.oz.au!warwick@eepo.dialix.oz.au Sun Oct  9 23:03:00 1994
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          id aa11829; 10 Oct 94 10:39 WST
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           Mon, 10 Oct 1994 07:50:45 WST
X-Mailer: *Cinetic Mail Manager V2.1
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 07:50:44 WST
From: warwick@bettong.eepo.dialix.oz.au (Warwick Rowell)
Message-Id: <2e9881d5.bettong@bettong.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au>
To: vic@daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au
Cc: bchristensen@txinfinet.com, perma@cessysv.eepo.dialix.oz.au,
        permaculture-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Getting started...
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>From: vic@daena.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au (Victor Guest)
>Message-ID: <2e972a7b.daena@daena.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au>
>To: london@calypso-2.oit.unc.edu
>Cc: bchristensen@txinfinet.com, perma@cessysv.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au, permaculture-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
>Subject: Re: Getting started...
>
>>> I know there is an FAQ being worked on for a WEB server, as we are well
>>> down that track in Perth Western Australia.
>
>
>
>Sorry about omitting our WWW URL from the previous post. It is
>
>http://203.5.184.1/
>
>At the moment it provides general access info about EEPO people, and some
>information of interest to the agriculturally inclined.
>
>Regards,
>          Vic
>--
>Victor Guest   V.G.Guest                      Perth, Western Australia
>vic.guest@eepo.com.au                         3 McKee Plce Kingsley. 6206
>                ----: Sustainable Agriculture :----   Tel. (09) 3092108
>--: The Land Management Society & The Permaculture Association:----


How about a copy on the email for us poor peasants who haven't got 
IP access? So we know what it says.

Wx
--
 _____________________________________________________________
|              warwick.rowell@eepo.dialix.oz.au               |
|                                                             |
|    Management Consultant      Permaculture Designer         |
|__"Helping Managers Learn"____"Helping Land Managers Learn"__|


From steved@ncatfyv.uark.edu Fri Oct 14 10:59:16 1994
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Message-Id: <m0qvo42-0001IZC@ncatfyv.uark.edu>
From: steved@ncatfyv.uark.edu (Steve Diver)
Subject: Re: E-Z Home Aquaculture (fwd)
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu (Larry London)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:56:58 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: permaculture-mg@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu
In-Reply-To: <9410132254.AA12288@sunsite.oit.unc.edu> from "Larry London" at Oct 13, 94 06:54:58 pm
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 3489      
Status: RO
X-Status: 

 
> ------- start of forwarded message -------
> From: wbw@shore.net (William B. Warren)
> Newsgroups: sci.environment,alt.energy.renewable
> Subject: E-Z Home Aquaculture
> Date: 13 Oct 1994 16:31:32 -0400
> Organization: North Shore Access; a service of Eco Software, Inc.
> Lines: 13
> 
> If one were to grow some tilapia in a solar algae tank or two, pump 
> the wastewater through a nitrifying tank, and then divert the water 
> through hydroponically grown grasses, herbs, etc. before returning it to 
> the fish tank(s), is this water a satisfactory nutrient solution? 
> 
> Does one need to feed the fish a particular food, or a particular variety of
> foods to obtain a complete nutrient solution for the plants? Or would one 
> need to regularly add certain trace elements or salts?
> 
> Ideas,Comments,Suggestions,Criticism?
> Thanks in Advance,
> 		 Will
> 
> ------- end of forwarded message -------


Tom Speraneo in West Plains, MO, has developed an integrated
system based on tilapia and basil culture.  He has also
raised tomatoes & cukes, but like other folks who've tried 
aquaponics, he found herbaceous plants are better adapted 
than heavy-feeders like fruiting plants. 

Effluent from the bottom of the fish tanks is trickle irrigated 
"directly" onto gravel-cultured hydroponic vegetable beds.  
There is no intermediary stage like a biofilter or
nitrifyer.  The plant roots and bacteria living in the
gravel serve as the biofilter.  They remove the nitrates and
other nutrients as food.  The purified water is then
recirculated back to the fish tanks after going through an
aerator. 

The fertility input to hydroponic production is the fish
feed.  Adjustment of protein level in the fish feed helps 
regulate pH, etc.  Fish metalobolites (i.e., manure), 
decomposing fish food, and algae are the source of
nutrients.  The bacteria in the gravel run the whole show. 
To inoculate the system, collect a liter of tank water from 
a plain home aquarium and dump it in the fish tanks.  

The aquatic product, tilapia, is a secondary product.  The 
largest biomass and salable product is the vegetable/herb
produce.  At one time, he estimated 70 lbs produce to every
1 lb. tilapia.  North Carolina State Univ. research data was
2:1.  Speraneo modeled his system after NCSU and then
modified it about a dozen times to get where he is today. 

The Freshwater Insititute in West Virginia does it very 
differently.  They focus on cutting edge recirculating 
trout aquaculture.  Using oxygenation and ozonation, plus
demand feeders and injected aerated stream water, they are
able to get impressive trout yields in tanks.  Recirculated
water is treated with an expensive clarifier, sand biofilter, 
and aerator.  

Prior to returning the water back to the natural stream 
(with a natural P of 3 ppb), they remove the several hundred 
parts per million P, plus N, etc., by running it through 
aquaponics or constructed wetlands in greenhouses.  Aquaponic plants 
raised include strawberries and lettuce.  Constructed wetland plants 
used include turf grasses and vetiver grass.  P removal is 
80% first time through.  Biomass prouduction is solely based on 
nutrients in used fish tank water except for iron injection. 

Hope these notes and ideas are helpful.  I've been tracking
these and other aquaponic systems because they represent a 
fine model of sustainable food production, and fit well with
the goals and concepts of permaculture. 

Steve Diver
Fayetteville, AR


From daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au!vic@eepo.dialix.oz.au Tue Oct 18 20:07:44 1994
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X-Mailer: *Cinetic Mail Manager V2.1
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 18:26:17 WST
From: vic@daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au (Victor Guest)
Message-Id: <2ea3a2d1.daena@daena.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: Re: Acacia seeds (fwd)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>A lot of Australian native plants are listed in the latest Kimseed catalogue
>
>	KIMSEED
>	Australian Revegetation Corp.
>	42 Sarich Court
>	Osborne Park WA 6017 
>	Australia
>
>Phone +61 (0)9 446 4377		Fax +61 (0)9 446 3444
>
>The latest copy I've received arrived in late June this year.  There are some
>250 species of _Acacia_ listed.
>
>Prices for _A. auriculiformis_ are 	AUD190.00/kg, AUD9.50 per 25 g
>       for _A. mangium_ they are	AUD440.00/kg, AUD22.00 per 25 g
>
>Cheers,  Ian S.
>
>

Steve Hill from Kimseeds is an old friend. I'll see him tomorrow and we 
will try to get the Catalogue onto our web server.
 I'll try for an E-Mail address as well.

Regards,
          Vic
--
Victor Guest   V.G.Guest                      Perth, Western Australia
vic.guest@eepo.com.au                         3 McKee Plce Kingsley. 6026
                ----: Sustainable Agriculture :----   Tel. (09) 3092108
--: The Land Management Society & The Permaculture Association:----

From daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au!vic@eepo.dialix.oz.au Thu Oct 20 18:13:32 1994
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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 10:33:13 WST
From: vic@daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au (Victor Guest)
Message-Id: <2ea5d6f0.daena@daena.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: Re: double sowing barley & winter wheat! add alfalfa? (fwd)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>
>hey!
>
>i just read about the following kind of method:
>
>1/ spring, year 1: sow barley and winter wheat in two runs, use
>		   criss-cross method to reduce competition between
>		   barley & wheat. if available use variety of winter
>		   crop that doesn't need to be sown too densely.
>2/ autumn, year 1: harvest barley. winter wheat is lurking, hasn't
>		   developed much due to lack of vernalization. no tillage!
>3/ spring, year 2: winter wheat emerges.
>4/ autumn, year 2: harvest winter wheat.
>
>comments: savings in tillage, savings (earnings?!) in humus, savings in
>	  nutrients, environment less polluted by nutrients, better
>	  overwintering conditions for winter crop. tests indicate crops
>	  harvested are about the same size as those gotten using the
>	  "conventional" method in finland.
>
>isn't this cool? i for one am extremely excited about this, but i bet
>you people have been using this for years... if so, tell me about your
>experiences. btw, IMHO one should sow vetch or something as well in
>order to increase nitrogen levels and thus improve conditions for
>pulling the carbon - contained in the barley straw - into the tillage
>layer. i heard vetch can grow in this kind of shade.
>
>anybody know an even better nitrogen fixer that can grow in the shade?
>alfalfa would be highly cool, but i wonder if there would be enough
>space for it... if you've done this with alfalfa, tell me!
>-- 
>"i abhor you pretentious insight. i respect conscious guessing
>because it consists of two good qualities: courage and modesty."
>-imre lakatos
>------- end of forwarded message -------
>

This type of combining was very useful, and is used to a lesser degree
today in our farming in W.A. 
It was a very good way to establish clovers and medicagos as pasture
with limited funds.
By simply adding to the the seed hopper, the idea was to provide enough
seed the following year to establish a nitrogen producing Pasture. Trials
by the Agricultural Dept were set up to demonstrate the loss of production
from the growing of the competitor. Most of "our" farms pasture was 
established this way. (325mm rainfall belt)
I wouldn't consider Lucerne (alfa alfa) in a cropping area as it needs time
to establish in a dryland situation. ( it's roots have been traced to 10         
meters)
There is a lot missing from your question as to what you are trying to 
achieve. Continuos cropping, ley farming, rainfall constraints, chemical 
free.
People who use one pass broad acre techniques, supply nitrogen to the crop
to compensate for the nitrogen lost to the growing plant by the straw. 
breaking down. Leached nitrogen from this practice gets to our Waterways.

Regards,
          Vic
--
Victor Guest   V.G.Guest                      Perth, Western Australia
vic.guest@eepo.com.au                         3 McKee Plce Kingsley. 6026
                ----: Sustainable Agriculture :----   Tel. (09) 3092108
--: The Land Management Society & The Permaculture Association:----

From daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au!vic@eepo.dialix.oz.au Mon Oct 24 18:48:59 1994
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From: vic@daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au (Victor Guest)
Message-Id: <2eab138a.daena@daena.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Cc: permaculture list <perma@cessysv.eepo.dialix.oz.au>
Subject: Re: hedgerows (fwd)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>I am doing reasearch on hedgerows as productive spaces on farms.
>My thought are that farmers would be more willing to keep and 
>maintain them for wildlife corridors and wind and soil erosion 
>control if they were also producing lumber, nuts, fruits and other 
>perennial crops. Anyone have experience using black walnut, 
>hickory, chestnuts, hybrid willow "Austrees"
>and shrubs such as blueberry, lamarkii or others for thier 
>commercial value as well as a hedgerow? I am primarily studying 
>land that is used for potato production.

Farmers in Western Australia have been watching some work done at Dowerin
where hedgerows of Tagasaste and Acacia I think, were used to not only
protect sandy soil from erosion, but the effect of the Tagasaste etc. was
an increase in yield. Plus Perenial Grazing. The hedgerows were on the
contour I think and across the prevaling  winds. they were x runs wide of 
the farmers sowing equipment.

At a lancare conference at Northam last year we saw these rows of 
Tagasaste being established for grazing and although they weren't
being especially connected to wildlife corridors the birdlife was 
extensive in them.

Machinery was being built to shape them as hedges so that sheep could 
get the grazing from food out of their reach.

Combinations of cattle and sheep were also being used after establishment.

>Phil Ferraro, Director
>Institute for Bioregional Studies
>449 University Avenue Suite 126            "Developing Local Solutions to 
>Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island	    Global Problems"
>Canada   C1A 8K3
>(902) 892-9578

Regards,
          Vic
--
Victor Guest   V.G.Guest                      Perth, Western Australia
vic.guest@eepo.com.au                         3 McKee Plce Kingsley. 6026
                ----: Sustainable Agriculture :----   Tel. (09) 3092108
--: The Land Management Society & The Permaculture Association:----

From daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au!vic@eepo.dialix.oz.au Wed Oct 26 03:57:05 1994
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From: vic@daena.eepo.dialix.oz.au (Victor Guest)
Message-Id: <2ead9b9d.daena@daena.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Cc: permaculture list <perma@cessysv.eepo.dialix.oz.au>
Subject: Re: OZ view on small farms (fwd)
Status: RO
X-Status: D

>
>Regards Jim Mckie (look at posting on landcare in this news group at later 
>date)
>
>Im interested in conversing with small farmers all over the world, send 
>us message...
> 
>jmckie@yarrow.wt.uwa.edu.au 
>
>An University address but i not an Academic. I just use their link.
>
>------- end of forwarded message -------
>
>>I am doing reasearch on hedgerows as productive spaces on farms.
>>My thought are that farmers would be more willing to keep and
>>maintain them for wildlife corridors and wind and soil erosion
>>control if they were also producing lumber, nuts, fruits and other
>>perennial crops. Anyone have experience using black walnut,
>>hickory, chestnuts, hybrid willow "Austrees"
>>and shrubs such as blueberry, lamarkii or others for thier
>>commercial value as well as a hedgerow? I am primarily studying
>>land that is used for potato production......

Vic,

I can't help thinking that we are guilty of losing the wisdom of the
centuries. Hedging and Ditching was something the old boys used to do after
harvest. It was an art as well as a science, and typically, we started
ripping up the hedges and the practioners died. Why do we reject the past?
Is there something wrong with it?
I went back to the part of Englnad I spent years in some years ago only to
find that all the heges along "our" lane had gone, despite the fact that
the Duke of Wellington owns the land and tries to control in ways which
benefit wildlife etc. What a crime.
I suppose the Canadian should seek info in the folklore books from the UK,
becasue I don't see too many farms in WA doing H & D.

"A house is a machine for living in...." Le Corbusier. Oh really?
(Dr) Bill Parker  : bill@brenta.eepo.dialix.oz.au (+ 619) 328 3804
Box 175 North Perth Western Australia 6006
------------------------------------------------------------------
I have posted this comment from my friend (Dr)Bill Parker as it is relevant
to the small farm issue and the increase in production that is being 
observed in one of my postings about Tagasate and Acacia hedges at Dowerin.


Regards,
          Vic
--
Victor Guest   V.G.Guest                      Perth, Western Australia
vic.guest@eepo.com.au                         3 McKee Plce Kingsley. 6026
                ----: Sustainable Agriculture :----   Tel. (09) 3092108
--: The Land Management Society & The Permaculture Association:----

From bettong.eepo.dialix.oz.au!warwick@eepo.dialix.oz.au Fri Oct 28 22:41:42 1994
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From: warwick@bettong.eepo.dialix.oz.au (Warwick Rowell)
Message-Id: <2eb1a942.bettong@bettong.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au>
To: Permaculture hub <london@sunsite.unc.edu>
Cc: Vic Guest <vic.guest@eepo.dialix.oz.au>,
        "Dr. Bill Parker" <bill@brenta.eepo.dialix.oz.au>
Subject: More on hedges
Status: RO
X-Status: D

Further to Vic's comment, and his inclusion of stuff from Bill Parker,
there are increasing attempts to save the old skills. I have been
ablt to find several in areas of Western Australia, as well as in England.

For those who may have more than a passing interest, there is a very 
good book that I believe would be enough for someone actually wanting 
to do these things:

	The Forgotten Arts
	John Seymour
	Dorling Kindersley, UK for the National Trust
	1984
	ISBN 0-86318-052-3

One chapter is called Crafts of the field: 
Hedge laying, Dry-stone walling, Making stiles, Well Digging, Peat Cutting.

Warwick
--
 __________________________________________________________
|                warwick.rowell@eepo.com.au                |
|                                                          |
|   Management Consultant      Permaculture Designer       |
|_"Helping Managers Learn"____"Helping Land Managers Learn_|


From adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Tue Nov  8 06:38:25 1994
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Path: solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au!lugb!hiscdcj
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture,sci.agriculture,alt.co-ops,aus.conserve,alt.energy.renewable
Subject: Looking for permaculture info
Message-ID: <1994Nov8.084831.17702@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>
From: hiscdcj@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Dwayne Jones-Evans)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 08:48:31 GMT
Sender: news@lugb.latrobe.edu.au (News System)
Organization: La Trobe University
Keywords: permaculture World Wide Web  
Summary: looking for permaculture or permaculture-related resources 
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Lines: 32
Xref: solaris.cc.vt.edu alt.sustainable.agriculture:4413 sci.agriculture:2092 alt.co-ops:1456 alt.energy.renewable:2870

Hello,

I'm currently attempting to set up a WWW page on permaculture.  I know
of the stuff on sunsite, but I was wondering if anyone has anything else
that they would like placed on the web, or who know of other information
which is related to permacultural stuff.

I've just started looking into sources on the net, so I haven't come
across much stuff which is permacultural as yet, aside from sunsite.

I'd like to put as much information up as possible.  I can only
manipulate straight ascii files, however.  URLs would be ideal,
HTML-ised ascii text would be better, but I will HTML-ise ascii texts if
required.

If anyone knows of any other info which is related to permaculture, I'd
be interested in that too.

Dwayne.


--


-|-+-|-     r e t u r n     t o       t h e     s o u r c e     -|-+-|-
                 internet: hiscdcj@lux.latrobe.edu.au
-|-+-|-       OurAimIsWakefulnessOurEnemyIsDreamlessSleep       -|-+-|-

looking for * permaculture * resources on the net. Mail me with URLs 

NEXUS:.settling.the.electronic.frontier..     mail listserv@netcom.com
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/nexus/              "subscribe nexus-gaia" 

From cyronwode@aol.com Tue Nov  8 10:02:57 EST 1994
Article: 4398 of alt.sustainable.agriculture
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: cyronwode@aol.com (Cyronwode)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Permaculture Design Course - CA
Date: 2 Nov 1994 21:43:03 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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>From  November 5th through November 19th, La Tierra Community in
Sebastopol, California (an hour north of San Francisco) will be hosting a
two week Permaculture Design Course with Scott Pittman, founder and
director of the Permaculture Drylands Institute. The cost is $750 and
includes all meals, and camping or tent dormitory. Call (707) 829-8348 or
Permaculture Course c/o Vital Technologies, P. O. Box 279, Sebastopol, CA
95473.

I am not associated with La Tierra, but i attended a two-day Permaculture
workshop there with Bill Moillison and Scott Pittman and it was GREAT. I
assume all readers of this ng are familair with Permaculture, so i will
not bother to describe it. La Tierra is a group of 4 families located on
15 acres of old apple orchards, worn out pasture and sedge wetlands, with
a year-round creek (unusual in California). I assume that some of what
will be done there will be hands-on work setting up swales and ponds, as
these were laid out by Mollison when he gave the two-day workshop. 

The two-week course grants one certification as a Permaculture Design
Trainee and entitles one to use the term Permaculture in pursuit of a
livelihood and for educational purposes. 

Course Topics Include:
Permaculture philosophy and ethics
Principles of natural systems
Permaculture principles and design methodology
Reading the landscape/site analyisis
Soil building/erosion control
Water in the landscape
Village design
Building design/shelters
Energy conservation
Gardening techniques

catherine


From hiscdcj@lux.latrobe.edu.au Thu Nov 10 23:07:46 EST 1994
Article: 2089 of sci.agriculture
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au!lugb!hiscdcj
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture,sci.agriculture,alt.co-ops,aus.conserve,alt.energy.renewable
Subject: Looking for permaculture info
Message-ID: <1994Nov8.084831.17702@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>
From: hiscdcj@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Dwayne Jones-Evans)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 08:48:31 GMT
Sender: news@lugb.latrobe.edu.au (News System)
Organization: La Trobe University
Keywords: permaculture World Wide Web  
Summary: looking for permaculture or permaculture-related resources 
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Lines: 32
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu alt.sustainable.agriculture:4417 sci.agriculture:2089 alt.co-ops:1479 alt.energy.renewable:2829

Hello,

I'm currently attempting to set up a WWW page on permaculture.  I know
of the stuff on sunsite, but I was wondering if anyone has anything else
that they would like placed on the web, or who know of other information
which is related to permacultural stuff.

I've just started looking into sources on the net, so I haven't come
across much stuff which is permacultural as yet, aside from sunsite.

I'd like to put as much information up as possible.  I can only
manipulate straight ascii files, however.  URLs would be ideal,
HTML-ised ascii text would be better, but I will HTML-ise ascii texts if
required.

If anyone knows of any other info which is related to permaculture, I'd
be interested in that too.

Dwayne.


--


-|-+-|-     r e t u r n     t o       t h e     s o u r c e     -|-+-|-
                 internet: hiscdcj@lux.latrobe.edu.au
-|-+-|-       OurAimIsWakefulnessOurEnemyIsDreamlessSleep       -|-+-|-

looking for * permaculture * resources on the net. Mail me with URLs 

NEXUS:.settling.the.electronic.frontier..     mail listserv@netcom.com
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/nexus/              "subscribe nexus-gaia" 


From jan.viste@euronetis.no Thu Nov 10 23:10:58 EST 1994
Article: 4425 of alt.sustainable.agriculture
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!trane.uninett.no!eunet.no!nuug!euronet!jan.viste
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: PERMACULTURE????
From: jan.viste@euronetis.no (Jan Viste)
Message-ID: <4.3744.237@euronetis.no>
Date: Sat,  5 Nov 94 09:23:00 +0200
Organization: EuroNet Information System, Data +47 5271 6021
Lines: 10

    I am a farmer from Norway who have been reading from this 
    conferance for some time.
    
    There is some things I wonder about. Can anybody tell me what
    permaculture means. My english is not so good so try to use 
    easy words please.

JAN
---
 * 1st 1.11 #3217 * jan.viste@euronetis.no


From cyronwode@aol.com Thu Nov 10 23:30:22 EST 1994
Article: 4420 of alt.sustainable.agriculture
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!dziuxsolim.rutgers.edu!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: cyronwode@aol.com (Cyronwode)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Re: Looking for permaculture info
Date: 8 Nov 1994 19:35:27 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: news@newsbf01.news.aol.com
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References: <1994Nov8.084831.17702@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf01.news.aol.com

In article <1994Nov8.084831.17702@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>,
hiscdcj@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Dwayne Jones-Evans) writes:

<I'm currently attempting to set up a WWW page on permaculture. >

Do you want book titles, addresses, what? Let me know. I am currently
working on a book on sustainable ag from a gardener's (not farmer's) point
of view and have accumulated much infor on Permaculture i'd be willing to
share. 

catherine


From Cyronwode@aol.com Sat Nov 12 17:07:44 1994
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From: Cyronwode@aol.com
Message-Id: <941112170739_6248602@aol.com>
To: london@sunsite.unc.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for permaculture info
Status: RO
X-Status: A

Hi, thanks for the permaculture information. I am going to be developing a
resources appendix to the book i am producing for Seeds of Change, and i will
email you a copy of whatever data i accumulate when it is done, which will
not be soon, because at present i am only oin chapter 3 of the book. The
project will wrap up by april, 1995, so look for a list of books, addresses,
etc, before then.

catherine

From e3480209@sparc1.cc.ncku.edu.tw Tue Nov 15 01:02:47 1994
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From: e3480209@sparc1.cc.ncku.edu.tw
Message-Id: <9411150606.AA02359@sparc1.cc.ncku.edu.tw>
To: london@sunSITE.unc.edu
Subject: Mailing lists of interest
Status: RO
X-Status: DA

Following your note in alt.sustainable agriculture, is it possible to subscribe to 
to permaculture-mg or does gated read only to the alt.sus.ag mean just that?
also how are the archives organised.? Is . What advice would you give a 
Permaculture group wishing to contribute articles on pc topics?
Many thanks Angus Claydon e3480209@ncku.edu.tw

From jbgFC@hamp.hampshire.edu Sun Nov 27 20:43:36 EST 1994
Article: 4623 of alt.sustainable.agriculture
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!oit-mail2news-gateway
From: jbgFC@hamp.hampshire.edu (Joel B Gruver)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: wood chip-digesting fungi and ground nuts
Date: 28 Nov 1994 01:05:16 -0000
Organization: sustag-public mailing list
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I have 2 info requests. 
First, I have access to large volumes of roughly 
chipped hardwood limbs with a small amount of foliage and coniferous 
limbs mixed in. (These materials were chipped by a road maintenance crew.)
Black cherry is probably the dominant hardwood constituent.
I am looking for a method of accelerating the decomposition of  
these materials so that I can use them as a soil amendment. I am 
wondering if there is a species of fungi that I can innoculate or 
encourage to accelerate the break down of such high lignin materials. 
Where can I find good information on the biochemistry of fungal digestion of 
high ligno-cellulosic materials ? Is there an edible species of mushroom 
that I can culture on this material ?

Where can I find information on the cultivation of the wild edible 
plant (Apios americana, common name: ground nut) ? Who is researching the 
economic potential of this plant ? Where can I obtain seeds, cuttings... of 
groundnuts selected for desirable traits ?

Joel Gruver
Hampshire College Farm Center
(413) 582-5348
jgruver@hamp.hampshire.edu


