From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Dec 2 01:44:07 1999 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 01:44:07 -0500 (EST) From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA X-IMAP: 0921345923 0000001280 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Mar 13 12:13:01 1999 -0500 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id MAA18109 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:13:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: X-Sender: trstaats@pop.flash.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:06:01 -0700 To: "permaculture" From: Todd Staats List-Unsubscribe: Subject: [permaculture] Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 Thanks for posting John Todd's website. I heard him speak at last October's Bioneers Conference in San Francisco, and he's doing some pretty amazing things with bioremediation. Next year's conference is its 10th annual and, as it's being held three month's before the millenium on Halloween weekend, I'm expecting it to sizzle. Nina Simons and Kenny Ausubel of the Collective Heritage Institute in Santa Fe do an amazing job of producing the event, which drew about 1,200 internationally last year. Check it out at http://www.bioneers.org I'm planning to be there! Todd Staats Albuquerque Permaculture Guild http://www.flash.net/~trstaats/apg.htm --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Mar 12 00:30:16 1999 -0500 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id AAA18465 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:30:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:23:09 -0500 From: Jack Rowe Subject: [permaculture] RE: Ants in the compost To: "permaculture" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id AAA18465 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 Fire ants do indeed seem to prefer dry conditions, though they manage at least a scouting a presence over every square foot in Texas. When I asked a Nicaraguan friend what controls fire ants in his country, he said, "Bigger, meaner ants." I hope he was just messing with my head. Harrassment (which usually makes mounds move) is my best defense. Boric acid baits (3/4 cup water, 1/4 cup sugar, 1 TBSP boric acid) work in homes/etc., but you don't want the boric acid all in your garden soil. I don't think they like a thick mulch, but it doesn't banish them. Aardvarks? Jack --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Mar 12 00:30:27 1999 -0500 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id AAA18477 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:30:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:23:11 -0500 From: Jack Rowe Subject: [permaculture] Living Technologies website (John Todd of New Alchemy Institute) To: "permaculture" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id AAA18477 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4 Thanks for the URL, Helen, John Todd et al have indeed done some interesting work with water purification (including removal of heavy metals) using algae and water plants. They've to some extent focused on treatment of seriously polluted water, as opposed to normal, household black and grey water streams. To me, what this means is that 1) the systems are technical and materials-intensive as compared to what a pc'er might contemplate for a home 'waste' system, and )2 the nutrients are disposed of instead of used most efficiently with an eye toward productivity. The very idea of 'waste', in fact, leads to 'treatment of wastes' instead of 'use of resources'. In practical terms, this means that the value of the wastes (ie, as fertilizers) is purposely dissipated and 'disposed of' instead of being taken advantage of. This is how we treat rural waste streams, with septic tanks and leach fields that dispose of the effluent without regard for its value. This is also true of constructed wetlands, where most of the nutrient value of a waste stream is absorbed and dissipated by bacteria in gravel beds, as opposed to being used for production. Better than a leach field (nitrates are better kept out of groundwater), but not using the nutrients to best advantage. I think it makes better sense, on a practical home-based level, to consider systems which treat dissolved nutrients as resources and use them productively instead of dissipating them. These would include: hydroponic systems which use septic tank effluent to fertilize plants growing in gravel beds (kind of high-tech); systems which use septic tank effluent as sprays or sub-surface irrigation to grow trees or mulches (mid-tech); and composting toilets (nice, low-tech -- yea!). Todd et al do use the nutrients in their systems for feeding fish and other aquatic organisms of value, and a similar setup exists in hybrid aquaponics systems where fish in intensive cultivation have their water cleaned by being run through growing beds of veggies/herbs in gravel growing media (at about 3:1 growing beds:fish tank, measured as surface areas -- see http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/ for an overview of commercial systems). Lots of possibilities, all probably best guided by remembering that septic wastes are agriculturally very valuable -- human waste treatment streams, in fact, pose one of the largest gaps between what we take and what we return from our ecosystems, and are a major waste of valuable phosphorous. Jack --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Mar 13 12:13:01 1999 -0500 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id MAA18109 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 12:13:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: X-Sender: trstaats@pop.flash.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:06:01 -0700 To: "permaculture" From: Todd Staats List-Unsubscribe: Subject: [permaculture] Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 Thanks for posting John Todd's website. I heard him speak at last October's Bioneers Conference in San Francisco, and he's doing some pretty amazing things with bioremediation. Next year's conference is its 10th annual and, as it's being held three month's before the millenium on Halloween weekend, I'm expecting it to sizzle. Nina Simons and Kenny Ausubel of the Collective Heritage Institute in Santa Fe do an amazing job of producing the event, which drew about 1,200 internationally last year. Check it out at http://www.bioneers.org I'm planning to be there! Todd Staats Albuquerque Permaculture Guild http://www.flash.net/~trstaats/apg.htm --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Mar 13 17:04:33 1999 -0500 Received: from listserv.oit.unc.edu (listserv.oit.unc.edu [152.2.25.17]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA21397 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:04:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56136 "HELO localhost" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with SMTP id <165225-24733>; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:58:12 -0500 Received: from corpmail1.jps.net ([209.63.224.250]:61773 "EHLO corpmail1.jps.net" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE[2]") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with ESMTP id <165238-24732>; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:57:35 -0500 Received: from holocene.net (209-239-195-121.oak.jps.net [209.239.195.121]) by corpmail1.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08789; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 13:56:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <36EAE2CF.AD77F96E@holocene.net> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:12:31 -0800 Reply-To: permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Sender: owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu From: holocene To: "email@holocene.net" Subject: AUGUST WORKSHOP - Permaculture and The Natural Step MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) X-Orcpt: rfc822;permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 *** SuNstainable Pathways Design *** learning skills for sustainable development Intensive Workshop, in the San Francisco Bay Area, August 16-21, 1999 ** Would you like to know how to apply sustainable principles in practice? ** Are you looking for a way to design innovative solutions in businesses, organizations, land use and development? ** Would you like to learn how to enhance strategic planning and productive stakeholder dialogue? This interactive workshop focuses on the practical application of sustainability principles. A practical, week long exercise will lead you through the process of integrating The Natural Step model, Permaculture design tools and creative thinking techniques in the design of positive solutions. http://www.holocene.net/workshop/pathwaysworkshop.htm Contact details: Joanne Tippett email@holocene.net +1 510 527 5887 From owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Sun Mar 14 11:27:34 1999 Received: from listserv.oit.unc.edu (listserv.oit.unc.edu [152.2.25.17]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA10716 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:27:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52780 "HELO localhost" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with SMTP id <165242-24735>; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:20:50 -0500 Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com ([207.69.200.31]:3873 "EHLO smtp1.mindspring.com" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE[2]") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with ESMTP id <165266-24733>; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:20:17 -0500 Received: from jeffwall (user-2ivf38i.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.141.18]) by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA01042 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:20:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <00d501be6e37$3618bc80$128df7a5@jeffwall> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:24:58 -0500 Reply-To: permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Sender: owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu From: grw1@mindspring.com To: Subject: subscribe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Sun Mar 14 19:10:48 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id TAA24756 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:10:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Julanna Hennessy" Organization: State Library of New South Wales To: "permaculture" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:05:50 EST+10 Subject: [permaculture] Re: indigenous permaculture Priority: normal In-reply-to: Message-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 Hello Dave, I think Americans have a bit of an advantage over Australians simply because so much of the indigenous foods were incorporated into the diet. Of course they were incorporated into the Australian diet too in the process! The same didn't happen with Australian foods, a colonial blind spot I think. "Bush foods" have started to become more popular in some circles, but they tend to be very expensive to buy, very much gourmet items. And to top it off, the foods from my local area (Sydney), with the exception of lilly pilly (a berry from a tree) aren't available in the shops. I don't think there's anything else. Most of the foods I see on the shelves are either tropical or desert. I had to do quite a lot of searching to find a list that would suit me, and my requirements are: from my local area, fit into a suburban yard, doesn't require any more processing than my regular food, and is palatable. Luckily I've been collecting books for years, and I already owned most of the ones I needed. And then, of course, I had to find the plants! Most of them are not in the regular nurseries, so now I know where all the native plants nurseries are close by. I just don't have the time to go looking for them myself. I think there's one web site that has been developed since I made up my list. I could have used them about 2 years ago! I'm slowly building up my collection. Two of my plants have died, my acacia and my lilly pilly, but my native mint, appleberry, midyim (berry) and native cranberry are coming along nicely, and seeing as I live across the road from a large semi wild park, I thought I might plant some of the tree size plants over there. This reminds me to go native plants shopping this weekend. As for doing permaculture on a 1/2 acre, there are people doing it on less. I'm not really "there" yet, my place is a slow evolution, but it's getting there. I have a boggy area, and I'm going to put in something for water plants down the track. Good luck with yours. Jules > Is anyone trying to do permaculture with indigenous plants / animals? > > Hey Jules, Dave here in Oklahoma City USA. I am very new to PC and am not > sure how much PC I am going to be able to practice here om my half acre lot in > suburbia, living in a traditional built wood frame house. However I am > interested in the ideas of PC, and plan to one day earn my living growing > food. I am in South West USA, which is a fairly arid part of the world. > There is growing interest in this part of the world in plants that were > traditionaly grown by native north and south American peoples. I have just > received my first seeds of Amaranth, Quinoa, maize, tomatillo, tomatos etc. > Two organizations that I contacted were Native Seed Search > www.azstarnet.com/~nss/, and seeds of change - www.seedsofchange.com. This is > my first year growing, so my knowlege is very limited. > > dave --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Mon Mar 15 07:17:18 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id HAA13780 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:17:18 -0500 (EST) From: DRush35007@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:10:57 EST To: "permaculture" Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [permaculture] Re: indigenous permaculture Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 In a message dated 99-03-14 19:05:23 EST, you write: << And to top it off, the foods from my local area (Sydney), with the exception of lilly pilly (a berry from a tree) aren't available in the shops. I don't think there's anything else. Most of the foods I see on the shelves are either tropical or desert. >> Hey sounds like a market niche to be exploited. oh no! I have been here too long and I am thinking like a capitalist. As for doing permaculture on a 1/2 acre, there are people doing it on less. I'm not really "there" yet, my place is a slow evolution, but it's getting there. I have a boggy area, and I'm going to put in something for water plants down the track. >> That is encouraging to hear. With the house and the shed (which is concrete slab, brick wall, very substantial) already in place, it limits the design process. I am also trying to decide if I should stay in a regular 9 to 5 job, and develop the property in my free time, or try to make my living growing and selling food. Obviously very different scenarios. Thanks for the reply, and good luck with the local plants. Hopefully it is a great reconnecting. Dave --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From supermfine@webtv.net Mon Mar 15 13:58:02 1999 Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA28195 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:57:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailtod-271.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-271.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.91]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id KAA08688; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:52:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-271.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id KAA14285; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:52:08 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAvvDpQ/Ql/Ip1zoEFe0/BHhSEhKoCFFkcfgTRk9m6M0cPGUhSkAR1GvSK From: supermfine@webtv.net (tim) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:52:08 -0500 (EST) To: permaculture@metalab.unc.edu Subject: hi Message-ID: <18558-36ED56D8-1631@mailtod-271.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 I have a report I have to do and I need pictures of freshwater ecology systems. If you have them please email them. Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Mon Mar 15 15:39:58 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id PAA01584 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:39:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:09:44 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Rampaging Rustics! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 Rampaging Rustics! By David Ivins >From the New York Times In case you city dwellers and suburbanites haven't noticed, be warned: the countryside is slowly creeping up on you. Like a rapidly growing weed that smothers everything in its path, rural areas are encroaching on our cities and suburbs, and no one -- not our elected officials, public interest groups or citizens -- is doing anything to stop this rural sprawl. In countless confrontations, rural extremists are preventing businesses from building industrial parks, shopping malls, condominiums, single-family homes, theme parks, airports and sports arenas. They are even fighting the construction of new highways! What would the country be without the network of freeways and parkways linking our cities, suburbs, shopping malls, theme parks and sports arenas? Rural sprawl began quietly with the infiltration, in ever-increasing numbers, of wildlife -- squirrels, rabbits, songbirds and other small, cuddly, apparently innocuous creatures -- into our suburbs and the fringes of our major cities. Now it seems that these small animals were only the advance guard of a cunningly planned invasion that also includes deer, coyotes, beavers, mountain lions, bears and other despoilers of our cherished suburban and urban habitats. Areas that otherwise would be given over to job creation and highly profitable logging, strip mining and oil drilling are being expropriated by wild animals, which are inherently valueless since they contribute nothing to our economy. Once these beasts establish themselves, shielded by hellbent wildlife-protection groups and misguided politicians from Al Gore to Christie Todd Whitman, they can never be dislodged. But these animals are only the unwitting servants of the quaint-seeming "country folk" whose diabolical plan is to eradicate or make unlivable our suburbs and cities by covering our streets, sidewalks and highways with grass, shrubbery and trees. They want to inundate shopping malls and sports arenas with lakes, ponds and streams; replace our condo developments with "picturesque" villages and hamlets and our suburban tract homes with drafty, old-fashioned farmhouses. The ultimate goal of these fanatical rustics is to return all of us to lives of unsophisticated rural primitivism. Is this the kind of life we want to lead? Fight rural sprawl now, before it's too late! David Ivins is a freelance writer. Copyright 1999 The New York Times 2/25/99 --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Mar 12 00:30:16 1999 -0500 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id AAA18465 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:30:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:23:09 -0500 From: Jack Rowe Subject: [permaculture] RE: Ants in the compost To: "permaculture" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id AAA18465 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 Fire ants do indeed seem to prefer dry conditions, though they manage at least a scouting a presence over every square foot in Texas. When I asked a Nicaraguan friend what controls fire ants in his country, he said, "Bigger, meaner ants." I hope he was just messing with my head. Harrassment (which usually makes mounds move) is my best defense. Boric acid baits (3/4 cup water, 1/4 cup sugar, 1 TBSP boric acid) work in homes/etc., but you don't want the boric acid all in your garden soil. I don't think they like a thick mulch, but it doesn't banish them. Aardvarks? Jack --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Mar 12 00:30:27 1999 -0500 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id AAA18477 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:30:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:23:11 -0500 From: Jack Rowe Subject: [permaculture] Living Technologies website (John Todd of New Alchemy Institute) To: "permaculture" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id AAA18477 Status: O X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 Thanks for the URL, Helen, John Todd et al have indeed done some interesting work with water purification (including removal of heavy metals) using algae and water plants. They've to some extent focused on treatment of seriously polluted water, as opposed to normal, household black and grey water streams. To me, what this means is that 1) the systems are technical and materials-intensive as compared to what a pc'er might contemplate for a home 'waste' system, and )2 the nutrients are disposed of instead of used most efficiently with an eye toward productivity. The very idea of 'waste', in fact, leads to 'treatment of wastes' instead of 'use of resources'. In practical terms, this means that the value of the wastes (ie, as fertilizers) is purposely dissipated and 'disposed of' instead of being taken advantage of. This is how we treat rural waste streams, with septic tanks and leach fields that dispose of the effluent without regard for its value. This is also true of constructed wetlands, where most of the nutrient value of a waste stream is absorbed and dissipated by bacteria in gravel beds, as opposed to being used for production. Better than a leach field (nitrates are better kept out of groundwater), but not using the nutrients to best advantage. I think it makes better sense, on a practical home-based level, to consider systems which treat dissolved nutrients as resources and use them productively instead of dissipating them. These would include: hydroponic systems which use septic tank effluent to fertilize plants growing in gravel beds (kind of high-tech); systems which use septic tank effluent as sprays or sub-surface irrigation to grow trees or mulches (mid-tech); and composting toilets (nice, low-tech -- yea!). Todd et al do use the nutrients in their systems for feeding fish and other aquatic organisms of value, and a similar setup exists in hybrid aquaponics systems where fish in intensive cultivation have their water cleaned by being run through growing beds of veggies/herbs in gravel growing media (at about 3:1 growing beds:fish tank, measured as surface areas -- see http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/ for an overview of commercial systems). Lots of possibilities, all probably best guided by remembering that septic wastes are agriculturally very valuable -- human waste treatment streams, in fact, pose one of the largest gaps between what we take and what we return from our ecosystems, and are a major waste of valuable phosphorous. Jack --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Mar 12 00:30:16 1999 -0500 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id AAA18465 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:30:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:23:09 -0500 From: Jack Rowe Subject: [permaculture] RE: Ants in the compost To: "permaculture" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id AAA18465 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 Fire ants do indeed seem to prefer dry conditions, though they manage at least a scouting a presence over every square foot in Texas. When I asked a Nicaraguan friend what controls fire ants in his country, he said, "Bigger, meaner ants." I hope he was just messing with my head. Harrassment (which usually makes mounds move) is my best defense. Boric acid baits (3/4 cup water, 1/4 cup sugar, 1 TBSP boric acid) work in homes/etc., but you don't want the boric acid all in your garden soil. I don't think they like a thick mulch, but it doesn't banish them. Aardvarks? Jack --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Tue Mar 16 12:45:36 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id MAA06319 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:45:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: X-Sender: sbonney@iquest.net Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:59:53 -0500 To: "permaculture" From: sbonney@iquest.net Subject: [permaculture] Solviva Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 I have just returned from the Ohio Ecological Food and Farming Association's annual conference where Anna Edey was a keynote speaker and workshop presenter. Wow! Her book, Solviva: How to Grow $500,000 on One Acre and Peace on Earth is fabulous and covers many of the subjects we often discuss: wastewater management, greenhouse design, sustainable food production, energy capture, etc. Surprisingly, she doesn't incorporate fish into her system. There is plenty of brain food here, however. Steve Steve Bonney, President Sustainable Earth a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to economic development through sustainable agriculture 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Tue Mar 16 12:59:17 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id MAA06611 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:59:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:37:09 -0800 From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Rampaging Rustics! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 Rampaging Rustics! By David Ivins >From the New York Times In case you city dwellers and suburbanites haven't noticed, be warned: the countryside is slowly creeping up on you. Like a rapidly growing weed that smothers everything in its path, rural areas are encroaching on our cities and suburbs, and no one -- not our elected officials, public interest groups or citizens -- is doing anything to stop this rural sprawl. In countless confrontations, rural extremists are preventing businesses from building industrial parks, shopping malls, condominiums, single-family homes, theme parks, airports and sports arenas. They are even fighting the construction of new highways! What would the country be without the network of freeways and parkways linking our cities, suburbs, shopping malls, theme parks and sports arenas? Rural sprawl began quietly with the infiltration, in ever-increasing numbers, of wildlife -- squirrels, rabbits, songbirds and other small, cuddly, apparently innocuous creatures -- into our suburbs and the fringes of our major cities. Now it seems that these small animals were only the advance guard of a cunningly planned invasion that also includes deer, coyotes, beavers, mountain lions, bears and other despoilers of our cherished suburban and urban habitats. Areas that otherwise would be given over to job creation and highly profitable logging, strip mining and oil drilling are being expropriated by wild animals, which are inherently valueless since they contribute nothing to our economy. Once these beasts establish themselves, shielded by hellbent wildlife-protection groups and misguided politicians from Al Gore to Christie Todd Whitman, they can never be dislodged. But these animals are only the unwitting servants of the quaint-seeming "country folk" whose diabolical plan is to eradicate or make unlivable our suburbs and cities by covering our streets, sidewalks and highways with grass, shrubbery and trees. They want to inundate shopping malls and sports arenas with lakes, ponds and streams; replace our condo developments with "picturesque" villages and hamlets and our suburban tract homes with drafty, old-fashioned farmhouses. The ultimate goal of these fanatical rustics is to return all of us to lives of unsophisticated rural primitivism. Is this the kind of life we want to lead? Fight rural sprawl now, before it's too late! David Ivins is a freelance writer. Copyright 1999 The New York Times 2/25/99 --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From lyris-admin@franklin.oit.unc.edu Thu Mar 18 00:41:46 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id AAA22070 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:41:45 -0500 (EST) Resent-Message-Id: <199903180541.AAA22070@luna.oit.unc.edu> Resent-date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:35:26 -0500 Resent-from: lyris@franklin.oit.unc.edu Resent-to: london@metalab.unc.edu Received: from laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au ([137.111.3.11]) by franklin.oit.unc.edu with SMTP (Lyris Server version 3.0); Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:35:23 -0500 Received: from localhost by laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id QAA08392 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:35:28 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:35:28 +1100 (EST) From: Louise Crabtree To: owner-permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 MAIL FORWARDED TO PERMACULTURE MAILING LIST OWNER Help! Somebody get this program to recognise that I'm a subscriber!!! (Thanks) > Re: urban permaculture in Australia > On Tue, 16 Mar 1999, Lyris wrote: > -> You did not specify a valid mailing list name to join. > > Sorry, but Lyris did not find your email address > > -> "lcrabtre@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au" > > listed as a member of permaculture. > How do I convince the list I exist and get it to accept my messages? > This is what I am currently subscribed as... > You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: > louise.crabtree@mq.edu.au > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > leave-permaculture-79096L@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Sat Mar 20 01:03:15 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id BAA11781 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:03:14 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: "permaculture" From: "Guy Clark" To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Fw: Pipe bomb attack on Forest Guardians! Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 00:00:02 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 From: Earth First! Media Centerby way of agit-prop To: Whispered Media ; Allsorts ; a-infos ; DAMN ; ban@tao.ca Subject: BAN: Pipe bomb attack on Forest Guardians! Date: Friday, March 19, 1999 9:50 PM Forwarded from Charlotte Talberth in Santa Fe, NM: Subject: bomb at Forest Guardians Sent: 3/19/99 1:28 PM From: Charlotte Talberth, char@roadrunner.com Today at 10:15 am Forest Guardians' chief canvasser, Mike Cherin, discovered a pipe bomb when he opened the mailbox outside Forest Guardians' office in Santa Fe. The bomb did not explode and no one was hurt. Police bomb squads subsequently arrived and detonated the bomb, which was loaded with ball bearings, meaning it was designed to kill. Last week Rio Arriba County hosted a day-long meeting of officials from counties in Northern New Mexico and Southern Colorado. The purpose of the meeting was to get more counties to join Rio Arriba in intervening against Forest Guardians et al. in the national economic lawsuit, and to censure the State of the Southern Rockies report authored by John Talberth and Bryan Bird (a Wildlands report). The people who spoke at the meeting are all known to us - Ike deVargas, Santiago Juarez, Chellis Glendinning, and Richard Rosenstock. They foment hatred and violence against Forest Guardians and Zero Cut on a regular basis by calling us genocidal racists etc. in public forums and publications, particularly La Jicarita , a newsletter circulated in Northern New Mexico. According to Bryan Bird, who was there, numerous threats of violence were made at that meeting. We are very, very thankful that Mike was not killed. I can post whatever stories are printed in tommorrow's papers. Mike says it makes him want to work harder than ever. Charlotte The FBI has become involved and is treating the bomb attempt as a terrorist act. The bomb was larger than originally thought. According to the FBI it could have blown apart the building and killed pedestrians in the area. ________________________________________________________ Earth First! Media Center Andy Caffrey, director efmc@asis.com http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/9901/ We have so much more to do! We are working so hard to get the word out to the world via the Internet on these crucial and cutting-edge campaigns against these outrageous atrocities! Our postings about David Chain's killing have now gone out to over a million people on five continents and been translated into French, German, Greek, Italian, Spanish and Russian. _____________________________________ WE NEED YOUR HELP RIGHT NOW We have just gone through a tormenting last five months and are flat broke with broken down gear, scant supplies, and late bills to cover. We are in need of certain supplies as well, such as Epson 740 ink cartridges, zip disks, videotape, postage, and subscriptions to periodicals, if we are to continue on after March. Please send contributions to further our work in support of the above and dozens of other EF! campaigns, payable to "Earth First!," to Earth First! Media Center P.O. Box 324 Redway, CA 95560 Thanks! We could do so much more with your involvement. Why not show this material to your friends? Just print it out and make some photocopies to help get the word out... _____________________________________ We're trying to remove the obstacles to your involvement. Please visit our newest Earth First! Media Center online, activist work centers: To learn about the killing of David Chain http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/9901/death_david.html What's Up with Headwaters Forest? Bookmark this site for 1999! http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/9901/whasup.html Sections coming soon: Buffalo Nations, Cremate Monsanto, the Biotic Baking Brigade, our Kaiser Ore Ship blockade action in Tacoma, Wash., AIM and EF!, musician Spring tour schedules, more audio and video files, and expanded regional support. --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 15:04:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA19984 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 15:04:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19118; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:54:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from m13.boston.juno.com (m13.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.193]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18870 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:50:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from jocal23@juno.com) by m13.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D5679F74; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:53:19 EST To: permaculture@envirolink.org Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:59:00 -0500 Subject: jostaberries, and pole apples Message-ID: <19990320.145951.7942.2.jocal23@juno.com> References: <199807280151.VAA06723@envirolink.org> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,3-4,8,11-12 From: joann t calabrese Reply-To: jocal23@juno.com Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 I am applying permaculture principles to a city lot which includes: grapes, raspberries, kiwi, asparagus, lots of medicinal herbs and a vegetable garden. I'd like to know if anyone has experience jostaberries or "pole apples" On the jostaberries: Are they shade tolerant? What is their growth habit? Bush or cane? Are they sweet? They are listed as a permaculture plant, or easy mainentance plant on some plant lists, but I would like some idea of what they are like before oredering. On the "pole apples": I found these in Gurney's seed catalog.....they certainly look like they would work for a small yard, but does anyone have any experience with these?? Thaks so much!!! Joann Calabrese, ERie, PA........jocal23@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Sat Mar 20 21:56:50 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id VAA24019 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:56:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:50:38 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] A Visit to the Heartland (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 32 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:08:15 -0500 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: A Visit to the Heartland Living on the Earth, March 19, 1999: A Visit to the Heartland About sixty years ago, writer Louis Bromfield, fleeing the oncoming World War in Europe, returned to his native, dustbowl-ravaged Ohio, where he bought three eroded, worn-out farms. Greedy, desperate farmers had allowed their topsoil to be washed down to the Gulf of Mexico, destroying the fertility and water-holding capacity of ecosystems, as well as lives and communities. Bromfield believed that with proper care, using nature's soil-building methods, this land could be restored to prosperity. He used cover crops, pastures with grazing animals, careful crop rotations and trees to stop erosion and create fertile soil. The land was again able to build its soil and water resources as well as its biological diversity. Springs that hadn't run for years began flowing as his farmland held onto more rainwater. Bromfield described his work eloquently in Pleasant Valley and other books. His passionate writings are credited with inspiring the soil conservation movement in the 1940s and 50s. Thirty years ago, when I first lived in the country on an abandoned, 200-year-old Connecticut farm, I read Bromfield's Pleasant Valley. It inspired me and changed my life. I managed to buy a small piece of land and began to care for it- to study and learn from nature. Last weekend, I had the opportunity to visit our country's heartland and as a result, to realize just how important and timeless Bromfield's message is. The Ohio Ecological Food and Farm Association (OEFFA) invited me to address its 20th Annual Conference. OEFFA is one of the many groups of farmers, gardeners and consumers around the country with similar missions. "To work to create and promote a healthful, ecological, accountable and sustainable system of agriculture," is OEFFA's goal. This conference offered a great opportunity to share information, successes, dreams and struggles with others involved in the work of creating a local, ecological food system on a human scale. Food is our most important connection to the Earth. Most of it comes directly or indirectly from the soil. The well-attended, all-day "Organic Soil Fertility Management and Improvement" workshop on the Friday before the official conference demonstrated this topic's importance. The message from seasoned farmers and a pioneering researcher stressed cover crops, the use of animals and plants in rotations, compost and trees. These methods are very similar to Bromfield's message, enhanced by modern research results. Later in the conference, a veteran farmer suggested that Pleasant Valley is still a valuable book for a beginning farmer to read. Other research shows that these organic soil building methods not only heal damaged ecosystems, they also help plants to resist pests and can eliminate the need for pesticides. Of course, whenever 600 thoughtful farmers and gardeners come together, there's bound to be talk of worrisome trends in this country's food and agriculture system. The rampant consolidation and vertical integration of the food system into the hands of a few dominant players results in lower farm prices and closed markets. Corporate giants' demands for low cost commodities to buy, sell, process or feed drive an increasingly disconnected, destructive, industrial-scale agriculture. Its voracious energy and pesticide use, large-scale animal confinement facilities, routine antibiotic feeding and the increasing lack of diversity and use of genetically-engineered seeds and animals worry many of those who actually tend the land. The threatening "Terminator Technology" which may allow corporations to sterilize future generations of seeds in order to achieve greater profits encouraged lots of talk of open-pollinated corn-- a creative defense against corporate biocide. Many of the people I met are using gardens, small farms, local processing and marketing to rebuild ravaged communities and soils in Appalachian hills and urban wastelands as well as on typical Ohio farms, and even on Bromfield's Malabar Farm, now a State Park. The deep pleasure of working with nature to build health, fertility and community, which makes Bromfield's book so inspiring, is shared by many OEFFA members. Tomorrow is the Spring Equinox and the beginning of another growing season. Peas, lettuces and other greens can be planted soon. This spring get your hands into the soil and begin to discover the great joys of working with nature to feed ourselves. This is Bill Duesing, Living on the Earth (C) 1999, Bill Duesing, Solar Farm Education, Box 135, Stevenson, CT 06491 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Sat Mar 20 23:06:31 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA24805 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:06:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA06418; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 22:56:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from valis.olywa.net (olywa.net [205.163.58.2]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA06353 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 22:55:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from permawest.olywa.net ([205.163.58.228]) by valis.olywa.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-56662U5000L500S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 19:42:01 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Permaculture West" To: Subject: Re: jostaberries, and pole apples Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:26:02 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19990321034201232.AAA1107@valis.olywa.net@permawest.olywa.net> Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 33 Hi Joann, I have been growing jostaberries for over three years in the Pacific NW and can provide you with some good feedback. Jostaberries are in the currant family (ribes nidigrolaria) and are a cross between currants and gooseberries. This makes them a bush rather than a cane plant and our three year old shrubs are now roughly three feet in diameter and four feet high. I have plants in several locations ranging from full sun to part shade. They all seem to be doing the same regardless of location. It seems that the ones in full sun produce slightly more and sweeter berries. My favorite "permaculture" way of growing them is under the dripline of my apple trees. Ribes and Malus (apple genus) are commonly found together in the wild so very likely share some kind of mutually beneficial association. I haven't noticed if the birds are attracted to the berries but they sure do like to perch on the wonderful architecture of the branches. The jostaberries have grown like crazy in this climate and I'm curious how much bigger they'll get. One interesting thing that I have experimented with is sticking the prunings in ground around the base of the plant to see if they'll root. I did this last year (February) when I pruned the plant to control its shape (they otherwise don't require any pruning). I snipped the prunings down to about 12-18" and literally jammed them into the ground around the parent plant. Sure enough that summer the sprouted leaves and put on another 12" of growth! This spring I am digging them up and either transplanting them elsewhere on our farm or giving them to friends. The berries are rather large, averaging around 1/2" in diameter. They're green for most of the growing season but turn a wonderful burgandy color come late summer. You then have a small window of time to pick them before they start dropping off the plant. When they are fully ripe they are very sweet. Great for eating just straight. I haven't processed them into jams or pies yet but most certainly will do so this year! If you have any other questions please feel free to write. Best regards, Kirk Hanson C/O Permaculture West 72 Mattson Rd. Oakville, WA 98568 ph./fx. (360) 273-7117 e-mail: permawest@olywa.net From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 00:43:29 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA25981 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:43:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA14187; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:33:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA14095 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:32:45 -0500 (EST) From: Unleesh@aol.com Received: from Unleesh@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id lVPTa17165; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:34:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3ef9ae66.36f484f9@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:34:49 EST To: permawest@olywa.net, permaculture@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: permaculture / native plants Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Reply-To: Unleesh@aol.com Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 I'm reading Judith Larner Lowry's "Gardening With A Wild Heart : Restoring California's Native Landscapes at Home". Is there a dialogue between native gardeners and permaculturalists? Also, does anyone from permaculture apply the principles from Christopher Alexander's "The Natural Way of Building" and "A Pattern Language"? How much is Fukuoaka used? Are any of his books available anywhere anymore? (I want them!) Could someone update me on these? thanks (un)leash From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 10:46:48 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29067 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:46:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA13592; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:37:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13525 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:36:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from 156.46.250.17 (vppp17.westby.mwt.net [156.46.250.17]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA04103 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:37:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36F513C7.2E46@mwt.net> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:44:11 -0600 From: miekal and Organization: Awkward Ubutronics X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@envirolink.org Subject: Re: permaculture / native plants References: <3ef9ae66.36f484f9@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: dtv@mwt.net Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 Unleesh@aol.com wrote: > Is there a dialogue between native gardeners and permaculturalists? unleesh, in my experience the question is problematic. it really depends on the openness of the native gardeners. most of the prairie nuts I know around here equate permaculture as being outside the bound of prairie restoration, (to put it lightly), & tend to have a native "bible" of what fits in the picture & what doesnt, based in part from the cataloguing of prairie remnants. the permies on the other hand are keen to draw from any resource within reason & design (for instance we have collected a tremendous amount of prairie seed & are interplanting it in our various nut & fruit orchards. the best explication of the exotic vs native (more blows than world wide wrestling federation) are the essays in the JH HUDSON seed catalogue. (I would post them here, but he asks that they not be distributed on internet, but the catalogue is available for $2) miekal dreamtime village http://net22.com/dreamtime/index.shtml From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 10:52:28 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29107 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:52:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA14190; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:42:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14049; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:41:26 -0500 (EST) From: Permacltur@aol.com Received: from Permacltur@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id mDACa07851; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:43:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:43:11 EST To: dtv@mwt.net, owner-permaculture@envirolink.org, permaculture@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: permaculture / native plants Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Reply-To: Permacltur@aol.com Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 36 Equating permaculture with gardening is like equating a human with his/her stomach. Permaculture integrates gardening with much more. The range of gardening styles and approaches that fit within permaculture is almost the complete range of gardening styles and approaches. For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since 1982), Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses, consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and annual correspondence courses via email. Copyright, 1998, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 52, Sparr FL 32192 USA Internships. YankeePerm@aol.com We don't have time to rush. A list by topic of all Yankee Permaculture titles may be found at http://csf.colorado.edu/perma/ypc_catalog.html Elfin Permaculture programs are listed at the Eastern Permaculture Teachers assn home page: http://home.ptd.net/~artrod/epta/eptahmp.html From owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Sun Mar 21 11:04:43 1999 Received: from listserv.oit.unc.edu (listserv.oit.unc.edu [152.2.25.17]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA29172 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:04:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40577 "HELO localhost" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with SMTP id <165240-24735>; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:58:30 -0500 Received: from f158.hotmail.com ([207.82.251.37]:4608 "HELO hotmail.com" ident: "TIMEDOUT") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with SMTP id <165250-24733>; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:56:53 -0500 Received: (qmail 17789 invoked by uid 0); 21 Mar 1999 15:56:49 -0000 Received: from 208.25.113.25 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 07:56:49 PST Message-Id: <19990321155649.17788.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 07:56:49 PST Reply-To: permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Sender: owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu From: "Brad Millis" To: permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Subject: Apprenticeship work/trade agreement Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain X-Originating-IP: [208.25.113.25] X-Orcpt: rfc822;permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 37 Hi my name is Brad Millis and I have come to California from Indiana to go to Humboldt University. It is going to take a year for me to establish residency (out of state tuition is outrageuos) and in the mean time I want to study permaculture and anything related to sustainable living. I dont have the money to take courses of any kind right now and I would rather get experiance while learning anyway. I have three kinds of references; people that will tell that I am a very good worker, people that will tell you how inspired/determined to learn sustainable living practices and then the people that fall into both of those catergories. This is a draft letter that Im sending to everybody I can find in California so if you have any questions about myself, or any other information you need please ask away. Im looking for something relatively long term, 6 months to a year. Thank you for your time and thank you for what you do. Sincerely, Brad Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 11:07:33 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA29189 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:07:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA15471; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:57:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f147.hotmail.com [207.82.251.26]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA15355 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:56:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 1002 invoked by uid 0); 21 Mar 1999 15:58:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19990321155858.1001.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.25.113.25 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 07:58:57 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.25.113.25] From: "Brad Millis" To: permaculture@envirolink.org Subject: Apprenticeship work/trade agreement Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 07:58:57 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Reply-To: noshwag@hotmail.com Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 38 Hi my name is Brad Millis and I have come to California from Indiana to go to Humboldt University. It is going to take a year for me to establish residency (out of state tuition is outrageuos) and in the mean time I want to study permaculture and anything related to sustainable living. I dont have the money to take courses of any kind right now and I would rather get experiance while learning anyway. I have three kinds of references; people that will tell that I am a very good worker, people that will tell you how inspired/determined to learn sustainable living practices and then the people that fall into both of those catergories. This is a draft letter that Im sending to everybody I can find in California so if you have any questions about myself, or any other information you need please ask away. Im looking for something relatively long term, 6 months to a year. Thank you for your time and thank you for what you do. Sincerely, Brad Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 18:42:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA04843 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:42:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA05045; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:31:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04284 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:25:17 -0500 (EST) From: Unleesh@aol.com Received: from Unleesh@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id mEEa020500; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:23:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7089e882.36f57f69@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:23:21 EST To: dtv@mwt.net, permaculture@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: permaculture / native plants Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Reply-To: Unleesh@aol.com Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 thanks, miekal .... do you have an address where i can send away for that catalog? because i'd like to educate myself in that regard ... i wonder if native plants are used more whether a fully edible system is viable ... here in california the bunchgrasses were used to make pinole, which is more nutritious than annual grains ... From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Sun Mar 21 20:18:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA05750 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:18:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA15269; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:08:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15140 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:07:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from 156.46.250.22 (vppp22.westby.mwt.net [156.46.250.22]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA02442 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:07:34 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36F59979.1590@mwt.net> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:14:35 -0600 From: miekal and Organization: Awkward Ubutronics X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@envirolink.org Subject: Re: permaculture / native plants References: <7089e882.36f57f69@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: dtv@mwt.net Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 40 unleesh: there are of course endless seed catalogues out there but J.L. Hudson remains one of my favorite JL HUDSON, SEEDSMAN Star Route 2, Box 337 LaHonda, CA 94020 mr dan: I missed it, whose suggesting that permaculture & gardening are the same? miekal From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Mon Mar 22 10:10:50 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA14029 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:10:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA26253; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:00:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA25594; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:56:46 -0500 (EST) From: Permacltur@aol.com Received: from Permacltur@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hNGAa21218; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:58:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:58:32 EST To: Unleesh@aol.com, owner-permaculture@envirolink.org, dtv@mwt.net, permaculture@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: permaculture / native plants Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Reply-To: Permacltur@aol.com Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 41 In a message dated 3/21/99 11:33:09 PM, Unleesh@aol.com wrote: <> You will have a very interesting diet! Even the three sisters are not from the USA part of North America. You might find a few wild bean types and some powerful bird chiles in the CA hot deserts, though to my knowledge these occur further east. When you subtract all the crops and semi-domesticated plants that the Native Americans introduced (and of course after them the Spanish), you will have no trouble maitaing a slim profile! Remember the ecosystems that supplemented the exotics grown by the natives do not exist as such any more and that a lot of the basic food, such as fish, is now badly contaminated. It is a worthy idea and one worth pursuing, to try to reconstruct and indigenous diet, but you need to be realistic about the fact that the Native Peoples grew exotics just like everybody else when these were tastier, more productive and/or more reliable. The interesting part of their food system, or one interesting part anyway, is that they also knew everything good to eat in the environment. But their knowledge was incomplete, too. For example, closer to where I live, Cherokees age poke weed, knowing at what stage it was non toxic if properly prepared. What they didn't know is that it is phenomenally carcinogenic, as the reaction there is so delayed as to obscure cause and effect. In point of fact, I know a herbal toxicologist who studied the carcenogenic effects of poke who now will not uproot it without wearing gloves! Moreover, almost all plants are toxic to some extent. Wild plants are, tpically, more toxic than domestic counterparts that have been bred to be edible. Your liver will detoxify some substances easily and others in small quantities with little OBSERVABLE effect. Others it cannot handle. It turns out that except for one or two very uncommon tropical species, the liver of a rabbit cannot detoxify anything that your liver cannot detoxify (discounting variability among individuals which can be large for several reasons.) So, if in doubt, feed it to a rabbit first. If the rabbit eats the stuff repeatedly, it is not toxic. Most animals, having any negative reaction to a food, willthereafter avoid it. Since domestic rabbits are as exotic to California as humans, from the evolutionary viewpoint, they have had no opportunity to develop resistance to the specific plants there, except where there are very similar species (chemically) growing in North Africa (which may be where domestic rabbits come from). Also, note that it is one thing to survive long enough to reproduce and maintain a culture, despite a toxin load, and another to have a low toxin diet. Now these cautions are from someone who eats a lot of wild stuff, plant and animal, and enjoys it. Just do the experiment knowing the risks and precautions that can minimize the risks. For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since 1982), Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses, consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and annual correspondence courses via email. Copyright, 1998, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 52, Sparr FL 32192 USA Internships. YankeePerm@aol.com We don't have time to rush. A list by topic of all Yankee Permaculture titles may be found at http://csf.colorado.edu/perma/ypc_catalog.html Elfin Permaculture programs are listed at the Eastern Permaculture Teachers assn home page: http://home.ptd.net/~artrod/epta/eptahmp.html From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Tue Mar 23 01:25:37 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id BAA01834 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:25:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:19:21 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] UC Santa Cruz Farm & Alan Chadwick Garden Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 42 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:10:40 -0800 From: David Oretsky To: CSA-L@prairienet.org Subject: hello Hi there, I've finally joined the CSA listserv and would like to introduce myself. My name is Nancy Vail and my husband is David Oretsky. We are both currently running the CSA program here at the UC Santa Cruz Farm & Garden with the hopes of eventually locating land and beginning our own CSA farm. Each spring 35-40 people from around the world come to the Farm & Garden to take part in the six-month Apprenticeship in Ecological Horticulture, offered through the Center for Agroecology & Sustainable Food Systems. Under the direction of the training staff, apprentices manage the 25-acre Farm and 2-acre Alan Chadwick Garden, learning to grow and care for a variety of vegetables, fruits, herbs and flowers using organic methods. Now in our 5th year, the CSA program offers 40 full and 40 half shares. We mainly target the University community. All members pick up at the farm and there's a self serve herb and flower garden for CSA members to use to supplement their boxes. With a combination of classes, guest lectures, field trips and hands on practical training, apprentices gain the necessary skills to begin their careers in farming. Since the program began in 1967 over 700 graduates have gone on to start their own CSA farms, work in community gardens, participate in overseas development projects , school gardens, on-farm training programs, etc... The Apprenticehip is part of UCSC's Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems. Center staff and faculty work to research, develop and advance sustainable food and agricultural systems which are environmentally sound, economically viable, socially responsible, nonexploitative and which serve as a foundation for future generations. Center staff conduct research as well as offer an extensive public education program. At present, the Apprenticeship program generates most of its own funding through produce sales, apprentice tuition, and public events. To continue and to expand its work, the Apprenticeship is seeking support from foundations, businesses and individuals who share our commitment to working toward a more sustainable agriculture. For more information about the Apprenticeship, CSA, and the Center please write or call: The Center for Agroecology & Sustainable Food Systems (CASFS) 1156 High St. University of California Santa Cruz, CA 95064 Apprenticeship tel (831) 459-4140 CSA tel (831) 459-3336 fax (831) 459-2799 web page http://zzyx.ucsc.edu/casfs Looking forward to sharing information! Sincerely, Nancy Vail Nancy Vail and David Oretsky CSA Coordinators Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems University of California at Santa Cruz Santa Cruz, CA 95064 (408)459-3336 --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 06:24:09 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA03854 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:24:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA02712; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:13:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA02473; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:10:00 -0500 (EST) From: Unleesh@aol.com Received: from Unleesh@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id hIYFa17165; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:12:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9a89cc77.36f7770a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:12:10 EST To: Permacltur@aol.com Cc: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org, dtv@mwt.net, permaculture@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Difference, Community, and Sustainability Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Reply-To: Unleesh@aol.com Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 43 It seems to me that there are some elements in mainstream American society that really get in the way of sustainable community ... ...and a main one is intolerance of difference, exceptionality ... i really do think it's a big deal that just wanting to control one's appearance, for example, is such a big deal ... if you have different colored hair, or like to dress differently, or if you're gay, or if you're pagan, people make it really really hard for you to get along or fit in and thusly you have to reach outside your "community" (snicker) to other "communities" (snicker) for those who are different there, and thus maintain phone, car, and email relations across local channels ... if I could be myself locally, find companions locally ... but realistically, amongst all these monster trucks and mainstream Xtian moralistic judgemental mediocre fools? *sigh* ... these technologies perhaps are bandaid solutions to social problems which need to be faced head on ... ...if there were widespread celebration of diversity, I could see neighborhood gardens, regular weekly block parties, and car poolings, etc ... i could see safe bicycling and public transpo ... but i don't trust enough, and thus only reach out to those who seem to share something in common that they're different ... ... anyone else had any similar thoughts or troubles? From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Tue Mar 23 09:57:21 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id JAA06037 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:57:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:55:54 -0500 From: John W Irwin Reply-To: "permaculture" Organization: American Permaculture Directory MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Pc for Mystic Hot Springs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id JAA06037 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 44 Anyone interested? ( I will send Mike names of Pc folks in his area) ========================================= Mystic Hot Springs Mon, 22 Mar 1999 23:46:34 -0700 From: "Mystic Mike" Hi John,   I have this wonderful Hot Springs Resort in central Utah.  I am looking for experts in various fields to participate in making Mystic Hot Springs an example of how energy can sustain and enrich our lives without wasting the planet.  Check out the web site www.mystichotsprings.com   If this interests you or someone you know, drop me a line.   Thanks for your time, Mike ================================ John Irwin, Editor American Permaculture Directory jwirwin@permaculture.net http://www.permaculture.net --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 10:00:46 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA06122 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:00:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA23983; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:50:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from fh102.infi.net (fh102.infi.net [208.131.160.101]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23552 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:48:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from 206.152.167.201 (pm4-201.lns.infi.net [206.152.167.201]) by fh102.infi.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA12333; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:51:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36F7AB7A.383C@permaculture.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:55:54 -0500 From: John W Irwin Reply-To: jwirwin@permaculture.net Organization: American Permaculture Directory X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pc Network UNC , Pc Network List Env Subject: Pc for Mystic Hot Springs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id JAA23554 Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 45 Anyone interested? ( I will send Mike names of Pc folks in his area) ========================================= Mystic Hot Springs Mon, 22 Mar 1999 23:46:34 -0700 From: "Mystic Mike" Hi John,   I have this wonderful Hot Springs Resort in central Utah.  I am looking for experts in various fields to participate in making Mystic Hot Springs an example of how energy can sustain and enrich our lives without wasting the planet.  Check out the web site www.mystichotsprings.com   If this interests you or someone you know, drop me a line.   Thanks for your time, Mike ================================ John Irwin, Editor American Permaculture Directory jwirwin@permaculture.net http://www.permaculture.net From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 11:55:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA09107 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:55:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA18717 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:59:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA18704 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:59:30 -0500 (EST) From: gardenbetty@earthlink.net Received: from earthlink.net (ip186.laurel.md.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.235.186]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA01722; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:59:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36F7BA26.D27820EA@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:58:34 -0500 Reply-To: gardenbetty@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture list Subject: Permaculture Design Course in the DC/Baltimore/York Area Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 46 The Fifth Annual Permaculture Design Course Heathcote Center, Freeland, MD July 10–25, 1999 Hosted by The Greater Baltimore Permaculture Group Sponsored by Heathcote Center, Dancing Green, Inc., and The School of Living WHAT IS PERMACULTURE? Permaculture is an approach to planning human settlements that uses intelligent design to increase the abundance of natural systems and the efficiency of human activities. It is rooted in the careful observation of the natural patterns characteristic of a particular site. The integration of human environments with natural cycles is key to Permaculture. Permaculture applies techniques and principles from ecology, cooperative economics, appropriate technology, sustainable agriculture, and the wisdom of indigenous people to create sustainable human environments, at home, at work, at play, and in our communities. WHY PERMACULTURE? We are living on a planet in crisis. The political and economic systems that have given rise to our modern lifestyles have created societies that consume more than they produce. The products and by-products of this consumer culture are polluting the Earth’s biosphere and destroying our fragile life support systems. During the mid-1970s, Bill Mollison, an Australian ecologist, began the development of the principles, philosophy, and methodologies of permaculture, or “permanent agri/culture.” Since 1978, tens of thousands of people worldwide have graduated from permaculture design courses and are continuing the evolution and development of permaculture practices in their local bioregions and communities. To make the transition toward a sustainable society, it is imperative that we take responsibility for our own lives and meet our basic needs for food, shelter, energy, gainful employment, and supportive community. Permaculture is an ethical and holistic technique for creating sustainable culture. ABOUT THE COURSE Our 5th annual Permaculture Design Course at Heathcote Center is a comprehensive, 16-day residential program that covers the entire range of permaculture topics, including hands-on implementation of permanent cultural systems. The course culminates in the presentation of a student-created design. Permaculture education is a synthesis of classroom and participatory learning, interactive education, observation exercises, role-playing, guided meditation, visioning, group sharing, and creative problem-solving. Participants should read /Introduction to Permaculture/ by Bill Mollison prior to beginning the course and come prepared for an active, outdoor, hands-on experience in Maryland’s sultry summer weather. FEATURED TOPICS • Philosophy, principles and ethics of Permaculture • Ecosystem dynamics • Mapping and tool usage • Energy analysis and landscape design • Building and protecting soils • Conserving and managing water • Agroforestry and edible landscaping • Livestock and wildlife • Local useful and edible plants • Waste and nutrient cycling • Permaculture in an urban setting • Appropriate building technologies • Alternative and cooperative economic systems • Psychosocial sustainability, consensus and conflict resolution Plus field trips, hands-on workshops, and more! WHO SHOULD TAKE THIS COURSE? This course will benefit gardeners, farmers, landscape architects, urban planners, environmental engineers, developers, environmental activists, homesteaders, teachers, and anyone with an interest in learning creative, holistic solutions to the challenge of human sustainability. Design course graduates will become certified Permaculture Design Apprentices upon completion of the design course. DESIGN COURSE CO-GUIDES Tonya Boston-Sagar has a BA and an MS in Social Ecology (the study of the interrelationship between culture and nature) with a concentration in bioregional studies. She does organic gardening incorporating permaculture principles and grows medicinal herbs. Charles Curtiss enjoys discovering, practicing, and sharing ever more sustainable ways of living. He has 22 years of experience as a Montessori teacher and has assisted with three Permaculture design courses. Linda Felch is a student in Environmental Studies at Johns Hopkins University. She lives at Heathcote Community where she enjoys gardening and foraging. dawn gifford helps foster urban sustainability by teaching organic gardening, nutrient cycling and permaculture principles to public-housing residents, inner-city high school students, and homeless people living in Washington, D.C. She has formal education in soils, botany and landscape design and drafting. Dawn grows and markets medicinal herbs and stewards a friendly hive of orchard mason bees. Tom Hopkins is a small-scale organic farmer who incorporates permaculture principles and has experience with community supported agriculture. He has an MA in Environmental Planning and teaches college-level geography. He is also an ex-manager of a multi-material recycling company, a musician, a poet, and a cat lover. John Irwin has an MA in Environmental Education and is the editor of the American Permaculture Directory. He has completed two design courses, one teacher training, and one practicum in Permaculture. Karen Stupski is a graduate student in the History of Science, Medicine and Technology at Johns Hopkins University and a caring communitarian. dawn shiner, a permaculture designer, herbalist, and homeschooling mother, will be present as our guiding elder. She began teaching Permaculture in 1987 at Slippery Rock University and has done numerous land consultations, workshops, and design courses. Dawn and her family founded a non-profit corporation, Dancing Green, to teach, demonstrate and design systems for the general public—especially low-income people—to create bioregional sustainability within our present culture. ABOUT THE SITE Located 30 miles north of Baltimore, MD, and 20 miles south of York, PA, the Heathcote Center is nestled in a narrow valley on a 44-acre community land trust that offers forest, stream, and hiking trails, as well as abundant gardens and historic buildings. Heathcote Community is committed to providing a working model of cooperative, sustainable living. For more information about our site, please call 410-343-DIRT. FOOD, LODGING AND OTHER AMENITIES Vegetarian meals and lodging in the Conference Center bunkroom are included in the design course fee. Tent sites are also available. Care for children age 5 and up is available with prior notification at an additional cost. With advanced notice, special accommodations can be made for those with food allergies, chemical sensitivity, or handicap. Heathcote Community is committed to providing an allergen-free space for our members and guests with chemical sensitivities and environmental illness. We respectfully request that you neither smoke nor wear perfumed or strongly-scented products while visiting Heathcote Center. WHO IS GBPG? The Greater Baltmore Permaculture Group (GBPG) is an organization that seeks to demonstrate sustainable living and to educate the public and ourselves. We are volunteers who serve as co-teachers for permaculture educational events. Our main demonstration site is at the Heathcote Center. Our group is developing demonstration sites at Cromwell Valley Park in Towson, Maryland, and at River Pearl Farm in Glen Rock, Pennsylvania. 1999 PERMACULTURE DESIGN COURSE REGISTRATION Preregistration is required. Enrollment is limited to 20 participants. Name______________________________________________________ Phone______________________________________________________ Email_______________________________________________________ Address ____________________________________________________ _______ 1999 Permaculture Design Course $775 ($100 minimum deposit required) Work exchange or tuition assistance are available; please call. _______ /Introduction to Permaculture/ by Bill Mollison (required reading) $20 _______ /The Earth-User's Guide to Permaculture/ by Rosemary Morrow $20 _______ My donation is enclosed to help make permaculture education accessible to more people. _______ Total (Please make checks payable to GBPG. Balances are due on July 10, 1999) send to: Heathcote Center 21300 Heathcote Road Freeland, MD 21053 717-227-2783 heathcote@jhu.edu http://welch.jhu.edu/~lfelch/heathcote.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 11:57:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA09149 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:57:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA16802; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:47:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16567 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:45:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from cc1025195-a ([24.4.119.30]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with SMTP id <19990323164842.RTPX9916.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@cc1025195-a> for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:48:42 -0800 Message-ID: <10b201be754b$b19ce8c0$1e770418@cc1025195-a.chmbl1.ga.home.com> Reply-To: "Lee Flier" From: "Lee Flier" To: Subject: Re: Difference, Community, and Sustainability Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:39:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 47 Unleesh wrote: >It seems to me that there are some elements in mainstream American society >that really get in the way of sustainable community ... > >...and a main one is intolerance of difference, exceptionality ... i really do >think it's a big deal that just wanting to control one's appearance, for >example, is such a big deal ... if you have different colored hair, or like to >dress differently, or if you're gay, or if you're pagan, people make it really >really hard for you to get along or fit in and thusly you have to reach >outside your "community" (snicker) to other "communities" (snicker) for those >who are different there, and thus maintain phone, car, and email relations >across local channels ... if I could be myself locally, find companions >locally ... but realistically, amongst all these monster trucks and mainstream >Xtian moralistic judgemental mediocre fools? *sigh* ... these technologies >perhaps are bandaid solutions to social problems which need to be faced head >on ... > >...if there were widespread celebration of diversity, I could see neighborhood >gardens, regular weekly block parties, and car poolings, etc ... i could see >safe bicycling and public transpo ... but i don't trust enough, and thus only >reach out to those who seem to share something in common that they're >different ... > >... anyone else had any similar thoughts or troubles? Well, I live in an "international" neighborhood of Atlanta. There are 12 different countries represented on my street alone. Because this neighborhood is known for that kind of diversity, anyone who moves here knows it's that kind of place and tends to be a tolerant sort. We all get along well for the most part, have the occasional block party, and if we aren't best friends we pretty much "live and let live." I like that, personally. HOWEVER... as a model of a future America (or anyplace else) I'm not sure at all if this is going to work, or even SHOULD be considered a goal. Not that neighborhoods like mine shouldn't exist, for those who want to live in them. But people like us (who "celebrate" diversity) need to recognize ourselves as a small minority and that's OK. For the most part it's hardwired into us humans to be tribal - that is, most people want to live amongst those of their own kind, who behave in much the same ways they do, speak the same language, have the same types of religious beliefs. And we tend to defend our "turf" against those who are different. The current trend toward "celebrating diversity" is really a recent phenomenon and has only arisen because, in modern society, people have suddenly been forced to form a common culture where they really have none. In fact, America in particular tries to pretend as if different cultures do not exist - we are all one "happy family" with equal access to McDonald's and Wal Mart. Yet deep inside, most people know better and cling fiercely to their own. In order to prevent violence from erupting on a regular basis (which it often does anyway in urban environments), the more enlightened, educated types have preached the gospel of "celebrating diversity". While I applaud the attitude of tolerance among people who wish to pursue it, I don't think the attitude of tribalism is going to go away, or should. When too much intermingling among cultures happens, what results is a lack of any culture - as we see in America. Why shouldn't people who wish to, be able to feel secure in their communities, with people who they can count on to behave more or less as they do? This really rankles most liberal types who view this as intolerance or racism, but I am not advocating for example that all of America become white and Christian. However, I don't object to the idea of a white Christian community, so long as they leave all the others alone who are different. We don't have to associate with each other much, but let cultural boundaries persist between communities. We don't have have to like each other, so long as we are not violent toward each other. Just to illustrate, you know, Atlanta was the cradle of the Civil Rights movement, and Martin Luther King is still a venerated figure here. And Atlanta has probably made more progress in the area of "race relations" than any city in the U.S. There is a very large successful black middle class. The mayor is black, as is the police chief and most other important public officials. AND YET.... MLK's "dream" of a color-blind society has not happened. Successful black people do not move into the affluent white neighborhoods - instead, they have created affluent black neighborhoods. This is not because they particularly hate whites or anything. It's just that when people walk down the street they would like to meet other "familiars", people who speak in a similar way, who "get" their jokes, who probably go to the same churches, who share a common background. And when you get right down to it, there's nothing at all wrong with that. Unfortunately the "politically correct" crowd is doing its level best right now to stop such subcultural communities from happening, through such insidious measures as quotas, forced bussing, etc. We tend to make a racial issue of it because, historically, minorities have had inferior economic status to the majority. However, in the opinion of some of the black leaders around here, it is NOT the key to black economic success, for blacks to simply hang around with whites more. Instead, subcultures should have the opportunity to form their own communities, with their own economies, housing codes, leadership, etc. These communities do not need to like each other, they need simply to be allowed to exist. In Permaculture design it's very clear that diversity needs to be considered. However it's also clear that one can't just throw together plant and animal species willy-nilly, in the greatest number possible, and expect it to work. One has to give each species a space to grow, together with other species with whom they have a beneficial relationship. Species must not be allowed to cross-breed if the resulting cross will weaken the original species. I believe the same thing is true of communities, and cultures, who have differing values. The result of trying to get them to "celebrate" each other is that no community ends up being able to fully exercise and live by the values that made it strong to begin with. --Lee *********************************** Lee A. Flier lflier@mindspring.com Atlanta and Ellijay, Georgia http://lflier.home.mindspring.com From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Tue Mar 23 11:59:16 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id LAA09225 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:59:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:52:54 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Market Gardening Short Course (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 48 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:34:54 -0400 From: Patricia Foreman To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Market Gardening Short Course Good Earth Farm School, Buena Vista, Virginia, is offering a 3-day intensive market gardening short course on April 9-11, 1999. Participants will be introduced to everything they need to know to design and create a profitable small farm business. Topics include site selection and development, soil regeneration, crop and market choices, labor and equipment needs, integrated pest management, value added processing, complimentary marketing options and poultry and small livestock in the garden rotation. Instructors are Michael LaChance, Virginia Extension Entomologist, and Andy Lee, organic market gardener and author of BACKYARD MARKET GARDENING and CHICKEN TRACTOR. Course fee of $285 includes course materials, lunches and snacks. Inexpensive lodging is available in nearby Lexington, Virginia. For more information contact Andy Lee, Director, Good Earth Farm School, 1702 Mountain View Road, Buena Vista, Virginia 24416, phone and fax 540-261-8775. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Tue Mar 23 15:58:14 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id PAA15497 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:58:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:58:34 -0500 From: gardenbetty@earthlink.net Reply-To: "permaculture" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture Design Course in the DC/Baltimore/York Area Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net id HAA01722 List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id PAA15497 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 49 The Fifth Annual Permaculture Design Course Heathcote Center, Freeland, MD July 10–25, 1999 Hosted by The Greater Baltimore Permaculture Group Sponsored by Heathcote Center, Dancing Green, Inc., and The School of Living WHAT IS PERMACULTURE? Permaculture is an approach to planning human settlements that uses intelligent design to increase the abundance of natural systems and the efficiency of human activities. It is rooted in the careful observation of the natural patterns characteristic of a particular site. The integration of human environments with natural cycles is key to Permaculture. Permaculture applies techniques and principles from ecology, cooperative economics, appropriate technology, sustainable agriculture, and the wisdom of indigenous people to create sustainable human environments, at home, at work, at play, and in our communities. WHY PERMACULTURE? We are living on a planet in crisis. The political and economic systems that have given rise to our modern lifestyles have created societies that consume more than they produce. The products and by-products of this consumer culture are polluting the Earth’s biosphere and destroying our fragile life support systems. During the mid-1970s, Bill Mollison, an Australian ecologist, began the development of the principles, philosophy, and methodologies of permaculture, or “permanent agri/culture.” Since 1978, tens of thousands of people worldwide have graduated from permaculture design courses and are continuing the evolution and development of permaculture practices in their local bioregions and communities. To make the transition toward a sustainable society, it is imperative that we take responsibility for our own lives and meet our basic needs for food, shelter, energy, gainful employment, and supportive community. Permaculture is an ethical and holistic technique for creating sustainable culture. ABOUT THE COURSE Our 5th annual Permaculture Design Course at Heathcote Center is a comprehensive, 16-day residential program that covers the entire range of permaculture topics, including hands-on implementation of permanent cultural systems. The course culminates in the presentation of a student-created design. Permaculture education is a synthesis of classroom and participatory learning, interactive education, observation exercises, role-playing, guided meditation, visioning, group sharing, and creative problem-solving. Participants should read /Introduction to Permaculture/ by Bill Mollison prior to beginning the course and come prepared for an active, outdoor, hands-on experience in Maryland’s sultry summer weather. FEATURED TOPICS • Philosophy, principles and ethics of Permaculture • Ecosystem dynamics • Mapping and tool usage • Energy analysis and landscape design • Building and protecting soils • Conserving and managing water • Agroforestry and edible landscaping • Livestock and wildlife • Local useful and edible plants • Waste and nutrient cycling • Permaculture in an urban setting • Appropriate building technologies • Alternative and cooperative economic systems • Psychosocial sustainability, consensus and conflict resolution Plus field trips, hands-on workshops, and more! WHO SHOULD TAKE THIS COURSE? This course will benefit gardeners, farmers, landscape architects, urban planners, environmental engineers, developers, environmental activists, homesteaders, teachers, and anyone with an interest in learning creative, holistic solutions to the challenge of human sustainability. Design course graduates will become certified Permaculture Design Apprentices upon completion of the design course. DESIGN COURSE CO-GUIDES Tonya Boston-Sagar has a BA and an MS in Social Ecology (the study of the interrelationship between culture and nature) with a concentration in bioregional studies. She does organic gardening incorporating permaculture principles and grows medicinal herbs. Charles Curtiss enjoys discovering, practicing, and sharing ever more sustainable ways of living. He has 22 years of experience as a Montessori teacher and has assisted with three Permaculture design courses. Linda Felch is a student in Environmental Studies at Johns Hopkins University. She lives at Heathcote Community where she enjoys gardening and foraging. dawn gifford helps foster urban sustainability by teaching organic gardening, nutrient cycling and permaculture principles to public-housing residents, inner-city high school students, and homeless people living in Washington, D.C. She has formal education in soils, botany and landscape design and drafting. Dawn grows and markets medicinal herbs and stewards a friendly hive of orchard mason bees. Tom Hopkins is a small-scale organic farmer who incorporates permaculture principles and has experience with community supported agriculture. He has an MA in Environmental Planning and teaches college-level geography. He is also an ex-manager of a multi-material recycling company, a musician, a poet, and a cat lover. John Irwin has an MA in Environmental Education and is the editor of the American Permaculture Directory. He has completed two design courses, one teacher training, and one practicum in Permaculture. Karen Stupski is a graduate student in the History of Science, Medicine and Technology at Johns Hopkins University and a caring communitarian. dawn shiner, a permaculture designer, herbalist, and homeschooling mother, will be present as our guiding elder. She began teaching Permaculture in 1987 at Slippery Rock University and has done numerous land consultations, workshops, and design courses. Dawn and her family founded a non-profit corporation, Dancing Green, to teach, demonstrate and design systems for the general public—especially low-income people—to create bioregional sustainability within our present culture. ABOUT THE SITE Located 30 miles north of Baltimore, MD, and 20 miles south of York, PA, the Heathcote Center is nestled in a narrow valley on a 44-acre community land trust that offers forest, stream, and hiking trails, as well as abundant gardens and historic buildings. Heathcote Community is committed to providing a working model of cooperative, sustainable living. For more information about our site, please call 410-343-DIRT. FOOD, LODGING AND OTHER AMENITIES Vegetarian meals and lodging in the Conference Center bunkroom are included in the design course fee. Tent sites are also available. Care for children age 5 and up is available with prior notification at an additional cost. With advanced notice, special accommodations can be made for those with food allergies, chemical sensitivity, or handicap. Heathcote Community is committed to providing an allergen-free space for our members and guests with chemical sensitivities and environmental illness. We respectfully request that you neither smoke nor wear perfumed or strongly-scented products while visiting Heathcote Center. WHO IS GBPG? The Greater Baltmore Permaculture Group (GBPG) is an organization that seeks to demonstrate sustainable living and to educate the public and ourselves. We are volunteers who serve as co-teachers for permaculture educational events. Our main demonstration site is at the Heathcote Center. Our group is developing demonstration sites at Cromwell Valley Park in Towson, Maryland, and at River Pearl Farm in Glen Rock, Pennsylvania. 1999 PERMACULTURE DESIGN COURSE REGISTRATION Preregistration is required. Enrollment is limited to 20 participants. Name______________________________________________________ Phone______________________________________________________ Email_______________________________________________________ Address ____________________________________________________ _______ 1999 Permaculture Design Course $775 ($100 minimum deposit required) Work exchange or tuition assistance are available; please call. _______ /Introduction to Permaculture/ by Bill Mollison (required reading) $20 _______ /The Earth-User's Guide to Permaculture/ by Rosemary Morrow $20 _______ My donation is enclosed to help make permaculture education accessible to more people. _______ Total (Please make checks payable to GBPG. Balances are due on July 10, 1999) send to: Heathcote Center 21300 Heathcote Road Freeland, MD 21053 717-227-2783 heathcote@jhu.edu http://welch.jhu.edu/~lfelch/heathcote.html --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 16:30:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA16120 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:30:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA06708; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:20:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06345 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:18:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from cc1025195-a ([24.4.119.30]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with SMTP id <19990323212128.TINT9916.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@cc1025195-a> for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:21:28 -0800 Message-ID: <11f201be7571$b82a80a0$1e770418@cc1025195-a.chmbl1.ga.home.com> Reply-To: "Lee Flier" From: "Lee Flier" To: Subject: Re: Difference, Community, and Sustainability Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:11:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 50 Unleesh wrote: >Oh but I do ... because you see, without toleration and celebration of >difference, the difference that is born INTO that community is going to be >repressed ... i didn't ask to be born into this neighborhood i live in, with >its intolerance of difference ... Yes, but then you go on to extoll the virtues of the "Mosaic of Subcultures" - a pattern which I had in mind actualy when I wrote my post. If such a mosaic exists, then if you are born into a community where you don't fit in, you can go to a different one. If your choices are all pretty much the same - a diverse but homogenized community such as we in the US mostly have to live with - you can't. That's all I was saying. >primitive peoples aren't intolerant of >difference at all, tho peasants may be ... It depends which "primitive" peoples you're talking about, and what kinds of differences. Tribal peoples in fact were and are highly territorial and often fought each other to keep their own values intact. And although certain types of differences were tolerated, a high degree of social cooperation is also required in a close-knit community, so tribal taboos, religions, and customs were fiercely defended and had to be respected by its members or you would most definitely find yourself without a community. >... i don't think you can expect people to be the same as you ... that has a >name : conformity Actually, I think the notion of "conformity" arose from people's desire to have a community where there is none. They mistakenly believe that forcing people into sharing certain values is a substitute for the kind of community tribals enjoyed. Conformity is not the same thing as having a desire to be among familiars. >...and the simple fact is that most primitive tribes had a >wide tolerance of difference so long as basic values were shared ... that's >one of their wonders and joys ... I think you are over-simplifying and idealizing this. It's true that most tribal peoples did not seek to hunt down and kill every other tribe who didn't behave as they did - or try to force others to behave the same way. We do need to get back to that point and this is the problem you are having with the white Christian majority. They are not content to have their own communities, they must force every community to become like themselves. However, if you think no individuals felt stultified in a tribal society, think again. Fortunately, the "mosaic of subcultures" that exists where you have a multitude of autonomous communities (such as the 300 different tribes that occupied the Americas) allows you to marry into or move to another community if you don't fit in. --Lee *********************************** Lee A. Flier lflier@mindspring.com Atlanta and Ellijay, Georgia http://lflier.home.mindspring.com From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 16:31:32 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA16135 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:31:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA06809; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:21:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06596 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:20:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from cc1025195-a ([24.4.119.30]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with SMTP id <19990323212252.TITM9916.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@cc1025195-a> for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:22:52 -0800 Message-ID: <120001be7571$ea080160$1e770418@cc1025195-a.chmbl1.ga.home.com> Reply-To: "Lee Flier" From: "Lee Flier" To: Subject: Re: Difference, Community, and Sustainability Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:12:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 51 Unleesh wrote: >Oh but I do ... because you see, without toleration and celebration of >difference, the difference that is born INTO that community is going to be >repressed ... i didn't ask to be born into this neighborhood i live in, with >its intolerance of difference ... Yes, but then you go on to extoll the virtues of the "Mosaic of Subcultures" - a pattern which I had in mind actualy when I wrote my post. If such a mosaic exists, then if you are born into a community where you don't fit in, you can go to a different one. If your choices are all pretty much the same - a diverse but homogenized community such as we in the US mostly have to live with - you can't. That's all I was saying. >primitive peoples aren't intolerant of >difference at all, tho peasants may be ... It depends which "primitive" peoples you're talking about, and what kinds of differences. Tribal peoples in fact were and are highly territorial and often fought each other to keep their own values intact. And although certain types of differences were tolerated, a high degree of social cooperation is also required in a close-knit community, so tribal taboos, religions, and customs were fiercely defended and had to be respected by its members or you would most definitely find yourself without a community. >... i don't think you can expect people to be the same as you ... that has a >name : conformity Actually, I think the notion of "conformity" arose from people's desire to have a community where there is none. They mistakenly believe that forcing people into sharing certain values is a substitute for the kind of community tribals enjoyed. Conformity is not the same thing as having a desire to be among familiars. >...and the simple fact is that most primitive tribes had a >wide tolerance of difference so long as basic values were shared ... that's >one of their wonders and joys ... I think you are over-simplifying and idealizing this. It's true that most tribal peoples did not seek to hunt down and kill every other tribe who didn't behave as they did - or try to force others to behave the same way. We do need to get back to that point and this is the problem you are having with the white Christian majority. They are not content to have their own communities, they must force every community to become like themselves. However, if you think no individuals felt stultified in a tribal society, think again. Fortunately, the "mosaic of subcultures" that exists where you have a multitude of autonomous communities (such as the 300 different tribes that occupied the Americas) allows you to marry into or move to another community if you don't fit in. --Lee *********************************** Lee A. Flier lflier@mindspring.com Atlanta and Ellijay, Georgia http://lflier.home.mindspring.com From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 16:56:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA16727 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:56:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA10644; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:45:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10254 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:43:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from cc1025195-a ([24.4.119.30]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with SMTP id <19990323214553.TNBC9916.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@cc1025195-a> for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:45:53 -0800 Message-ID: <120901be7575$1f113f40$1e770418@cc1025195-a.chmbl1.ga.home.com> Reply-To: "Lee Flier" From: "Lee Flier" To: Subject: Re: Difference, Community, and Sustainability Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:35:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 52 Christopher Page wrote: >Thank you "Unleesh" for bringing this subject up and Lee Flier for >eloquently adding his experiences to it. Well, I'm actually a "she" (not very obvious from my name, no offense taken!), but thank you. >I am glad to join the >discussion on this subject.... > >I tend to agree with Mr. Flier and have an additional question to posit: > >How does a diversity-friendly community respond to other tribal >communties who by nature, cannot let other community-tribes be >different? I would hope that, eventually, such minority communities will come to occupy their own physical spaces. The problem is not so much that the majority doesn't like it if others are different; the problem is that their hand is in everything. Right now, because the majority has made the laws for the entire nation, there's not much room for alternatives to move. As we find each other and begin to live together I hope that will change. >For example, I live in a fiercely conservative county in California >(somehow I overlooked this when I was moving to the area) where anything >non-Christian and non-Republican is viewed as not only undesirable but >sinful and absolutely not tolerated. I belong to a minority Jewish >community here which largely pretends that we belong even though we are >viewed by the dominant majority culture here as outsiders and aliens. I hear ya. Growing up, we were the only Jewish family in a small New England town... there was also one black family. The little black girl and I got pretty close. >(We have a history of developing that attitude in order to cope with >such things I realize.) I don't mind Christians being difference but I >do mind when they want me to be like them. I don't try to make them >Jewish but they work very hard to make me Christian Yeah, that is the problem in a nutshell. Paradoxically, this problem might be solved if Christians were allowed to have their own communities and advertise themselves as such. There might be certain resources, businesses etc. shared by multiple cultures but obviously the hard core conservative Christians are very insecure about their position and feel threatened by others. This as I mentioned isn't an uncommon or unnatural human response; the problem is that since we are all thrown together physically it can become a conflict. If, for example, your area was a "registered Christian community" and you belonged to a "registered Jewish community" then anybody would know not to move there unless they either belonged to the respective culture or didn't mind being an outcast (which some people don't). Problem is, Christian communities generally DON'T advertise themselves as such, either because they will be labeled as "racist segregationist white supremacists" or whatever, or because their real goal is to make everyone else be just like them. I will grant you there are those, and those are a problem, but I don't think they represent the majority of Christians. I really think the majority of Christians would be happy if they could live and raise their families among those of their own kind without the threat of interference from others. If we lived in separate autonomous communities and the Christians still tried to take over non-Christian communities and insist that they follow Christian laws and customs, then we have blatantly exposed the problem. >...Further, permaculture as an >agricultural practice is viewed in this county as neo-satanism.... >pesticides are venerated and worshipped as necessary and so vital that >any decision against them is viewed by the dominant tribe as a >"communist-liberal plot." A permacutlure farmer cannot obtain credit or >agricultural commission permits to grow in this county because the >dominant tribe's power figures presume that organic or permaculture >methods are illegitimate and spell financial disaster and communal >instability. Is this a good tribal boundary to allow? When it comes to tribal customs, there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" except to the degree that a practice helps the tribe to survive. Almost any tribe can find something abhorrent about any other tribe, because their cultural background runs contrary to yours. That's exactly the problem. So, if your conservative neighbors are left to their own devices to practice unsustainable farming, they ultimately won't survive because they'll kill the soil, and their practices will be exposed as a problem. >Tribalism is normal, but what happens when tribes put up hard barriers >to keep others out? That's part of the nature of tribalism. Again I don't see it as a problem, EXCEPT for the little fact that currently, the white Christian culture is so overwhelmingly dominant on this big piece of land that it's impossible for anyone else to thrive. When this country was founded there was a lot of energy invested in freedom of religion, and a lot of people left communities where they weren't wanted and went off to form their own, based on their own religious beliefs. I think the equivalent needs to happen now, except that instead of inhabiting "new" land (and I use that term sarcastically since we all know it wasn't anyhow), we need simply to reorganize populations. It would be nice if that happened organically, just by people moving around till they found somewhere they fit in, or else staking out a neighborhood with several friends and trying to attract like minded people, a la the various cohousing projects that are springing up. >What happens when outsiders want to live in a >geographical place but have to adopt soft borders to live within the >dominant tribe that lives there already? What happens to reinhabitation >within a tribal community; when a member of the dominant tribe wakes up >and wants to change things accordingly? > >Just a few more questions to consider...... And they are all very troubling questions. I'm not at all sure it can happen without violence, and possibly the breakup of the country into smaller regions, as the Soviet Union did. Conquering armies rarely bother to draw lines in the sand along tribal/bioregional boundaries, but only along boundaries convenient to their own purposes. This is what we are dealing with, and I really don't feel that the same physical space can be occupied by different tribes ultimately, without BOTH being compromised. In order to quit trashing the land we have to develop a relationship to it again, which only seems possible through living in a space whose boundaries can clearly be understood by each member of the tribe, where responsibility can't be deflected to some far-off place and its people decimated. As long as we have "dominant" cultures and are merely minorities occupying their homogenous space, nobody wins. I think our task as permaculturists is to make the dominant culture understand that they don't win either. --Lee *********************************** Lee A. Flier lflier@mindspring.com Atlanta and Ellijay, Georgia http://lflier.home.mindspring.com From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 17:22:40 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA17999 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:22:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA29463; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:43:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ms1.paclink.net (ms1.paclink.net [206.170.104.36]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA29061 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:42:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.96.144.55] by ms1.paclink.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id 404 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:44:45 -0800 Message-ID: <36F7FC52.6F5A@paclink.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:40:51 -0800 From: "Christopher Page" Reply-To: cpage@paclink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@envirolink.org Subject: Re: Difference, Community, and Sustainability References: <10b201be754b$b19ce8c0$1e770418@cc1025195-a.chmbl1.ga.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 53 Lee Flier wrote (excerpted): > > Unleesh wrote (excerpted): > > >It seems to me that there are some elements in mainstream American society > >that really get in the way of sustainable community ... > > > >...if there were widespread celebration of diversity, I could see neighborhood > >gardens, regular weekly block parties, and car poolings, etc ... i could see > >safe bicycling and public transpo ... but i don't trust enough, and thus only > >reach out to those who seem to share something in common that they're > >different ... > > > >... anyone else had any similar thoughts or troubles? > > Well, I live in an "international" neighborhood of Atlanta. There are 12 > different countries represented on my street alone. Because this > neighborhood is known for that kind of diversity, anyone who moves here > knows it's that kind of place and tends to be a tolerant sort. We all get > along well for the most part, have the occasional block party, and if we > aren't best friends we pretty much "live and let live." I like that, > personally. > > HOWEVER... as a model of a future America (or anyplace else) I'm not sure at > all if this is going to work, or even SHOULD be considered a goal. Not that > neighborhoods like mine shouldn't exist, for those who want to live in them. > But people like us (who "celebrate" diversity) need to recognize ourselves > as a small minority and that's OK. For the most part it's hardwired into us > humans to be tribal - that is, most people want to live amongst those of > their own kind, who behave in much the same ways they do, speak the same > language, have the same types of religious beliefs. And we tend to defend > our "turf" against those who are different. > > While I applaud the attitude of tolerance among people who wish to pursue > it, I don't think the attitude of tribalism is going to go away, or should. > When too much intermingling among cultures happens, what results is a lack > of any culture - as we see in America. Why shouldn't people who wish to, be > able to feel secure in their communities, with people who they can count on > to behave more or less as they do? This really rankles most liberal types > who view this as intolerance or racism, but I am not advocating for example > that all of America become white and Christian. However, I don't object to > the idea of a white Christian community, so long as they leave all the > others alone who are different. We don't have to associate with each other > much, but let cultural boundaries persist between communities. We don't > have have to like each other, so long as we are not violent toward each > other. > Thank you "Unleesh" for bringing this subject up and Lee Flier for eloquently adding his experiences to it. I am glad to join the discussion on this subject.... I tend to agree with Mr. Flier and have an additional question to posit: How does a diversity-friendly community respond to other tribal communties who by nature, cannot let other community-tribes be different? For example, I live in a fiercely conservative county in California (somehow I overlooked this when I was moving to the area) where anything non-Christian and non-Republican is viewed as not only undesirable but sinful and absolutely not tolerated. I belong to a minority Jewish community here which largely pretends that we belong even though we are viewed by the dominant majority culture here as outsiders and aliens. (We have a history of developing that attitude in order to cope with such things I realize.) I don't mind Christians being difference but I do mind when they want me to be like them. I don't try to make them Jewish but they work very hard to make me Christian (culturally not just religiously - why can't you open your store on Saturdays? Why can't you just work M-SA like everyone else? Why so many holidays; ones that are different from ours?). In public functions (city hall) when a different or non-traditional view is put forth, it is shouted down with a frightening amount of socio-cultural venom. Trying to propose a simple community garden was vetoed before it could be even voted on, branding the proposer as a heretic and an outsider for even suggesting a "communist ideal" in their fine American suburban community. Further, permaculture as an agricultural practice is viewed in this county as neo-satanism.... pesticides are venerated and worshipped as necessary and so vital that any decision against them is viewed by the dominant tribe as a "communist-liberal plot." A permacutlure farmer cannot obtain credit or agricultural commission permits to grow in this county because the dominant tribe's power figures presume that organic or permaculture methods are illegitimate and spell financial disaster and communal instability. Is this a good tribal boundary to allow? Tribalism is normal, but what happens when tribes put up hard barriers to keep others out? What happens when outsiders want to live in a geographical place but have to adopt soft borders to live within the dominant tribe that lives there already? What happens to reinhabitation within a tribal community; when a member of the dominant tribe wakes up and wants to change things accordingly? Just a few more questions to consider...... From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 18:30:17 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA19734 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:30:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA22574; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:19:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA22375 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:17:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from cc1025195-a ([24.4.119.30]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with SMTP id <19990323232003.UDKF9916.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@cc1025195-a> for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:20:03 -0800 Message-ID: <125e01be7582$3e00f140$1e770418@cc1025195-a.chmbl1.ga.home.com> Reply-To: "Lee Flier" From: "Lee Flier" To: Subject: Re: Difference, Community, and Sustainability Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:09:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 54 >A) That has already happened, witness history. (also called missionaries) Yep. That's a no-no. But again, I don't consider that the majority of Christians are zealots. Let those who aren't zealots but would like to live in a Christian community do so. The zealots we will have to deal with differently. >B) Would they tolerate internal difference? Do they just ship their gays, >their punks, their whatevers to other "registered communities"? Or do they >more likely try to repress them? That's not really our business. If we wish to be left alone to run our own "tribes" as we see fit, we have no business condemning someone else's practices, however much we may not like them. The only practice we can condemn is if, as you say re: missionaries, they try to interfere with our own communities. If someone is gay and feels out of place in a Christian community, that person should of course be free to leave the community and find either a gay community or one that has no problem with gays. In a "mosaic of subcultures" one would be aware of the existence of other cultures and therefore it would be tough to "repress" somebody to the extent that they couldn't get out of their situation. --Lee *********************************** Lee A. Flier lflier@mindspring.com Atlanta and Ellijay, Georgia http://lflier.home.mindspring.com From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Tue Mar 23 18:32:55 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id SAA19803 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:32:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Reply-To: "permaculture" From: "Rick and Rose" To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Good job Lee Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:19:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 55 Holy Cow, I can't believe some of the things you say. Congratulations. Alot of people that believe in permaculture seem to think that a great community is a homogenized community. I think that a place where everyone is the same is boring. I love reading a cookbook from Tuscan where the health dept. hasn't set the ways they prepare their food. I enjoy music from other countries where the instruments aren't something I've seen before. People need to find out that one way isn't the only way. Rick --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Tue Mar 23 18:53:59 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id SAA20379 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:53:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Steve Diver" To: "permaculture" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:42:44 +0000 Subject: [permaculture] New Forest Roads moratorium Reply-to: "permaculture" List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 56 New Forest Roads Moratorium USDA has announced an 18-month interim moratorium on construction of new roads in the last pristine areas of national forests. The ban expires upon adoption of a revised road management policy or in 18 months, whichever comes first. See the USDA Forest Service websites below for more information. USDA Forest Service Interim Roads RuleWeb Site http://www.fs.fed.us/news/roads/ Forest Service Limits New Road Construction In Most National Forests http://www.fs.fed.us/news/roads/nr.htm WASHINGTON (Feb. 11, 1999) -- Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman, joined by Under Secretary for Natural Resources and Environment Jim Lyons and Forest Service Chief Mike Dombeck, today announced an 18-month moratorium on new road construction in unroaded areas in most national forests, allowing for safe public access while protecting the environment. While the 18-month road construction suspension is in effect, the Forest Service will develop a long-term road policy for the National Forest Transportation System. In addition to minimizing environmental damage, the Forest Service will establish new policies to guide decisions on identifying unessential roads, recommending roads to be eliminated or maintained to reduce environmental damage, and assessing roads that need to be reconstructed and maintained so that they are safe and can sustain constant public use. "Because a road is one of the most indelible marks man can leave on the landscape, it is our responsibility to safeguard the often irreplaceable ecological value of unroaded areas until a permanent policy can protect our last great open spaces, our water and wildlife, and the economic health of forest communities," Glickman said. "We are therefore calling an official time out, so we can examine the science, involve the public and build a roads policy for the 21st century." "This interim policy will allow us to protect socially important and ecologically valuable roadless areas while we develop a protective and responsible long-term road policy," said Dombeck. "It's fiscally and environmentally irresponsible to continue to build roads in unroaded areas with our current road system in such disrepair." According to the new policy, which will be published tomorrow in the Federal Register as a final rule, all Forest Service roads will be placed in two categories - classified and unclassified. A classified road is at least 50 inches wide and constructed and maintained for vehicle use. An unclassified road is considered a road that was not constructed, maintained or intended for highway use. Road management is a long-term financial commitment; once built, roads must be maintained by the Forest Service for many years. The Forest Service estimates the national forest road system has 383,000 miles of classified roads and 52,000 miles of unclassified roads. The agency projects the current backlog for maintenance and reconstruction of existing roads is $8.4 billion. It only receives 18 percent of the funding needed to annually maintain roads to federal safety and environmental standards. "I commend Jim Lyons, Mike Dombeck and the Forest Service for the leadership role they have taken in implementing this temporary halt to road construction," Glickman said. "This process will provide the agency and public an opportunity to work together in finding a solution to this urgent problem." The 18-month rule will affect unroaded areas - portions of the National Forest System that do not contain classified roads. It also affects those areas as listed below: * All remaining roadless portions of Roadless Area Review and Evaluation II (RARE II) areas and forest plan inventoried areas that lie 1/4-mile or more beyond any classified road. * A National Forest System area that is more than 1,000 acres unroaded and contiguous to a remaining roadless portion of RARE II areas or Forest Plan inventoried areas. * All roadless areas identified in the Southern Appalachian Assessment. * National Forest System lands of 1,000 acres or more unroaded and contiguous to wild segments of the Wild and Scenic River System. * National Forest System lands of 1,000 acres unroaded and contiguous to other federal roadless areas of 5,000 acres or more. Areas exempt from this rule include the following: * National forests with forest plans that have been revised since January 1, 1996 and have completed the appeal process. * Those forests with revised forest plans that are under administrative appeal or revised during the period of the interim rule. * Those forests with plan revisions or amendments resulting from multi-federal agency coordination using a science-based, eco-regional assessment. * Road construction for public safety. * Those areas where road access is necessary to ensure access by statute, treaty, or reserved to outstanding private right * Those areas where road access is necessary to save life or property because of flood, fire, or other catastrophic event. The decision, which goes into effect in 15 days, is the outcome of the Forest Service analysis of the public comments and hearings it received and conducted on a proposal made last year. Release No. 0054.99 Andrew Kauders: (202) 720-4623 Forest Service Media Desk: (202) 205-1134 ============================================ --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 19:52:05 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA21617 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:52:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA01698; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:41:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA01359 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:37:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from cc1025195-a ([24.4.119.30]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with SMTP id <19990324004048.URLM9916.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@cc1025195-a> for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:40:48 -0800 Message-ID: <12a001be758d$80450cc0$1e770418@cc1025195-a.chmbl1.ga.home.com> Reply-To: "Lee Flier" From: "Lee Flier" To: Subject: Re: Difference, Community, and Sustainability Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:30:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 57 >what if they're under 18? what then? should they be repressed if they're gay? You're asking the wrong question. It isn't a question of whether they "should". In your community or mine, obviously they shouldn't. But from a Christian's point of view, they should. From a Christian's point of view, being gay is a sin and shouldn't be tolerated in their community. What makes your view any more "correct" than theirs? Why shouldn't a Christian be allowed to come into your home and tell you what to do with your gay son or daughter? For the same reason YOU shouldn't be allowed to tell them what to do with theirs. Those are the only "shoulds" and "shouldn'ts" in question here. The question is not "should a gay person be repressed", because that answer will be different for every culture. The question is "should diverse, autonomous cultures be allowed to exist?" If you answer yes to that question, then you must answer yes to the question "Should a Christian community be allowed to repress gays?" Note that answering yes to this question does NOT mean you condone repressing gays, or that you like the fact that they do this or are OK with it. It simply means you are practicing what you preach. >it is my business >if it affects me >anything which affects me >is my business This is the problem with American society. They believe that everything affects them and therefore is fair game for interference. That is just as true, as I am trying to point out, of the liberal and enlightened crowd as it is for the conservative and repressive crowd. A Christian missionary believes that if a single person on earth is left "unconverted", they are personally affected and it is their personal duty to convert these people. A suburban conservative believes that none of their neighbors should be allowed to leave their lawns uncut or paint their house purple, because in their mind it devalues THEIR property. Likewise, a liberal "missionary" believes that every society should tolerate having people of different races and religions living in their communities, that every society should think gays are cool, that every society should do this or that. The problem is not having such beliefs; the problem is thinking everyone else should. --Lee *********************************** Lee A. Flier lflier@mindspring.com Atlanta and Ellijay, Georgia http://lflier.home.mindspring.com From owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Tue Mar 23 20:05:09 1999 Received: from listserv.oit.unc.edu (listserv.oit.unc.edu [152.2.25.17]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA22047 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:05:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49069 "HELO localhost" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with SMTP id <165417-24733>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:58:51 -0500 Received: from grape.dcsi.net.au ([203.22.132.9]:1272 "EHLO grape.dcsi.net.au" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE[2]") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with ESMTP id <165434-24735>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:58:07 -0500 Received: from [203.36.128.56] by grape.dcsi.net.au (NTMail 4.01.0014/NU8048.00.cce31d4e) with ESMTP id jayxaaaa for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:12:09 +0000 Message-Id: <000701be7598$f4efaf20$01777777@work> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:52:19 +1000 Reply-To: permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Sender: owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu From: "Leongatha Community House" To: Subject: comfrey as animal fodder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE75EC.C57F79B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Orcpt: rfc822;permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 58 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE75EC.C57F79B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable my email address is amc124@hotmail.com does anybody know = where I can find some information about using comfrey as an animal = fodder? I believe it was/is? a common practice in Europe but I don't = know how they used it.Any info would help. Anne ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE75EC.C57F79B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    my email address is amc124@hotmail.com  &nbs= p;    =20 does anybody know where I    can find some information = about=20 using comfrey  as an animal fodder? I believe it was/is? a common = practice=20 in Europe but I don't know how they used it.Any info would help.=20 Anne
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE75EC.C57F79B0-- From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Tue Mar 23 21:15:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA24042 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:15:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA12024; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:03:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11247 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:58:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from cc1025195-a ([24.4.119.30]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with SMTP id <19990324020054.VFYY9916.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@cc1025195-a> for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:00:54 -0800 Message-ID: <12fe01be7598$ab6bcc80$1e770418@cc1025195-a.chmbl1.ga.home.com> Reply-To: "Lee Flier" From: "Lee Flier" To: Subject: Re: Difference, Community, and Sustainability Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:50:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 59 Unleesh wrote: >ok, let's put it this way : I will do everything in my power to help out >anyone who is different in one of these fascist "communities" I am supposedly >supposed to respect... You don't have to respect them, just allow them to exist without passing laws against their behavior or sending missionaries to their community to pressure them into changing. ... including smuggling people out of the community in >underground railroads, etc ... NOW you're talking. I'd say this was an entirely appropriate response! If someone asks for your help in this way, give it by all means! Somewhere there's a place for everybody and anybody has the right to find it. Meanwhile, I'd give anything if somebody would smuggle out all the remaining suburban lawn nazis from my neighborhood and take them to some island with a golf course, where they'll be safe from the likes of me and all my "different" friends and neighbors. --Lee *********************************** Lee A. Flier lflier@mindspring.com Atlanta and Ellijay, Georgia http://lflier.home.mindspring.com From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Mar 12 00:30:27 1999 -0500 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id AAA18477 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:30:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:23:11 -0500 From: Jack Rowe Subject: [permaculture] Living Technologies website (John Todd of New Alchemy Institute) To: "permaculture" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id AAA18477 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 60 Thanks for the URL, Helen, John Todd et al have indeed done some interesting work with water purification (including removal of heavy metals) using algae and water plants. They've to some extent focused on treatment of seriously polluted water, as opposed to normal, household black and grey water streams. To me, what this means is that 1) the systems are technical and materials-intensive as compared to what a pc'er might contemplate for a home 'waste' system, and )2 the nutrients are disposed of instead of used most efficiently with an eye toward productivity. The very idea of 'waste', in fact, leads to 'treatment of wastes' instead of 'use of resources'. In practical terms, this means that the value of the wastes (ie, as fertilizers) is purposely dissipated and 'disposed of' instead of being taken advantage of. This is how we treat rural waste streams, with septic tanks and leach fields that dispose of the effluent without regard for its value. This is also true of constructed wetlands, where most of the nutrient value of a waste stream is absorbed and dissipated by bacteria in gravel beds, as opposed to being used for production. Better than a leach field (nitrates are better kept out of groundwater), but not using the nutrients to best advantage. I think it makes better sense, on a practical home-based level, to consider systems which treat dissolved nutrients as resources and use them productively instead of dissipating them. These would include: hydroponic systems which use septic tank effluent to fertilize plants growing in gravel beds (kind of high-tech); systems which use septic tank effluent as sprays or sub-surface irrigation to grow trees or mulches (mid-tech); and composting toilets (nice, low-tech -- yea!). Todd et al do use the nutrients in their systems for feeding fish and other aquatic organisms of value, and a similar setup exists in hybrid aquaponics systems where fish in intensive cultivation have their water cleaned by being run through growing beds of veggies/herbs in gravel growing media (at about 3:1 growing beds:fish tank, measured as surface areas -- see http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/ for an overview of commercial systems). Lots of possibilities, all probably best guided by remembering that septic wastes are agriculturally very valuable -- human waste treatment streams, in fact, pose one of the largest gaps between what we take and what we return from our ecosystems, and are a major waste of valuable phosphorous. Jack --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 24 11:20:51 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id LAA02978 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:20:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:06:55 -0500 From: gardenbetty@earthlink.net Reply-To: "permaculture" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Sustainability Education in the DC/Baltimore/York Area Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net id IAA26763 List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id LAA02978 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 61 Sustainability Education - 1999 Calendar of Events Hosted by The Greater Baltimore Permaculture Group • 410-343-DIRT Sponsored by Heathcote Community, Cromwell Valley Park, and River Pearl Farm PERMACULTURE EDUCATION •Introduction to Permaculture Flexible scheduling. Please call. This two-hour presentation and slide show is an excellent introduction to permaculture principles and techniques for people who are interested in learning about a proven, holistic method for dealing with today’s environmental and social challenges. We will gladly bring the Introduction to Permaculture presentation to your group of 10 or more people. We would expect your group to cover the travel expenses of our presenter. Additional donations will also be accepted. Please call to set up an appointment. •1999 Permaculture Design Course Heathcote Center July 10–25 $775 (tuition assistance available) Our 5th annual Design Course at Heathcote Center is a comprehensive 16-day residential program emphasizing hands-on learning and community living. The course culminates in the presentation of a student created design. This is the ideal format for individuals who are convinced of the effectiveness of the permaculture approach, and seek to rapidly expand their knowledge and experience base. Topics will include: principles of Permaculture; ecosystem dynamics; mapping and tool usage; building and protecting soils; conserving and managing water; forest agriculture and edible landscaping; integrating livestock and wildlife; local useful wild plants; waste and nutrient cycling; sustainable building techniques; and creating and sustaining community. HOLD EVENTS Hands-On Living Demonstrations (HOLD) is a project of the Greater Baltimore Permaculture Group (GBPG). Its emphasis is organizing informal workdays at local sites for implementing creative solutions to ecological challenges that will serve as living examples to future visitors. All HOLD Events take place on Saturdays from 10am until 4pm unless otherwise indicated. Please bring a vegetarian lunch dish to share. •Organic Gardening the Permaculture Way Cromwell Valley Park April 10 • 10am–4pm, potluck lunch $15-$50 (sliding scale, you decide) Topics will include: site assessment; bed and pathway design; no dig gardening/sheet mulching; managing water; seed saving and biodiversity; “pest” control; soil health and soil creation; making and using micro-climate niches; using “dynamic accumulators and “green manures;” and establishing garden guilds. •Spring Planting: Preparing for Abundance River Pearl Farm April 17 • 10am–4pm, potluck lunch FREE (Donations accepted) Activities will include: “herb spiral” construction; orchard planting and mulching; creating dry hummocks for planting (semi-dry chinampas); and riparian plantings. •This Old Barn - Building Restoration Heathcote Center May 8 • 10am–4pm, potluck lunch FREE (Donations accepted) Activities will include: evaluating our old barn functionally and aesthetically; jacking and pulling the barn back into shape; foundations; sill repair and replacement; timber joint repair; roof work; metal roof painting; siding repair and replacement; and organizing the barn interior. •Water Catchment Systems Cromwell Valley Park June 20 • 10am–4pm, potluck lunch FREE (Donations accepted) Activities will include construction and installation of simple roof water catchment systems for watering gardens and greenhouses. •Summer Preparation for Winter Food River Pearl Farm August 22 • 10am–4pm, potluck lunch FREE (Donations accepted) Activities will include: hoop house and pond building preparation and working with dried flowers. •Preserving the Harvest Heathcote Center Sept. 25 • 10am–4pm, potluck lunch FREE (Donations accepted) Activities will include learning and practicing various techniques for putting up food for the winter (blanching, freezing, drying, etc.). •Building a Solar Greenhouse Heathcote Center Oct. 23–24 • 9am Sat.–2pm Sun. $30–$100 (sliding scale, you decide) $10 lodging Activities will include: siting; assessing solar angles and exposure; building techniques; insulation approaches; and integrating the greenhouse with the home and garden. HEARTSONG WORKSHOPS Heartsong Workshops focus on the psycho-social aspect of human sustainability and seek to offer unique and creative solutions to the spiritual and interpersonal challenges we face in creating a healthy culture. •The Choreography of Cursive: Poetry in Nature Immersion Heathcote Center April 3 • 10am–2pm, “poetic” lunch $25–$50 (sliding scale, you decide) Led by poet/filmmaker Dana Bloomfield, this workshop will cover basic writing do’s and don’ts, and help aspiring writers connect with outdoor spirituality through the universal language of symbols. •Body Attunement with Jette Goldman Heathcote Center Sunday, May 23 • 10am–4pm, potluck lunch $10–$25 (sliding scale, you decide) A day of retreat from daily busy-ness to turn inward, to be present and quiet with our bodies, and follow our inner source! Activities will include: grounding, movement, voicing, intuitive expression, visualization. •Introduction to Formal Consensus: A workshop on cooperative decision-making. Facilitated by C.T. Butler Heathcote Center June 12 • 10am–4pm, potluck lunch $25–$50 (sliding scale, you decide) This workshop will provide the information necessary to conduct a meeting using the Formal Consensus process. Topics include: agenda planning, facilitation techniques, small group discussion, and evaluation. C.T. Butler is a national organizer for Food Not Bombs and the author of /On Conflict and Consensus/, a handbook on consensus decision-making. His knowledge of group dynamics and cooperative decision-making comes from over fifteen years of experience as a nonviolent political activist and grassroots community organizer. C.T. Butler’s book /On Conflict and Consensus/ is available for $10. ABOUT THE SITES Heathcote Center • 410-343-DIRT Located 30 miles north of Baltimore, MD, and 20 miles south of York, PA, the Heathcote Center is nestled in a narrow valley on a 44-acre community land trust that offers forest, stream, and hiking trails, as well as abundant gardens and historic buildings. Heathcote Community is committed to providing a working model of cooperative, sustainable living. Cromwell Valley Park • 410-825-3891 Cromwell Valley Park is a Baltimore County park whose mission is to demonstrate and teach about sustainable agriculture. Located minutes from the Baltimore Beltway near Towson, Cromwell Valley is a mixture of woodland, pasture, stream, and historic structures, including ten acres devoted to a Community Supported Agriculture project. River Pearl Farm • 717-227-2783 River Pearl Farm is the homestead of Val and Tom Hopkins. It is located five miles north of the Mason-Dixon line in Glen Rock, Pennsylvania (just 30 minutes north of the Baltimore Beltway). River Pearl is a 24-acre farm with three distinct eco-zones: floodplain field, southwest-facing hillside, and a part-sun valley area. Codorus Creek runs through the property, and the North Central Rail (NCR) Trail passes nearby. WHO IS GBPG? The Greater Baltimore Permaculture Group is an organization that seeks to demonstrate sustainable living and to educate the public and ourselves. We are volunteers who serve as co-teachers for Permaculture education events. Our main demonstration site is at the Heathcote Center. Our group is developing demonstration sites at Cromwell Valley Park in Towson, Maryland, and at River Pearl Farm in Glen Rock, Pennsylvania. 1999 SUSTAINABILITY EDUCATION REGISTRATION Name_______________________________________________ Phone_______________________________________________ E-mail_______________________________________________ Address_______________________________________________ o I will attend the _______________________ (date) FREE HOLD Event. o Please send me more information about the 1999 Permaculture Design Course. o I’m interested in scheduling an Introduction to Permaculture presentation for my group of ten or more people. Please call me. _______ Organic Gardening the Permaculture Way $15–$50 (sliding scale) _______ Greenhouse Building $30–$100 (sliding scale) plus $10 lodging _______ Introduction to Formal Consensus with C.T. Butler $25–$50 (sliding scale) _______ /On Conflict and Consensus/ by C.T. Butler $10 _______ Body Attunement with Jette Goldman $10–$25 (sliding scale) _______ Poetry Workshop with Dana Bloomfield $25–$50 (sliding scale) _______ My donation to help make sustainability education accessible to more people _______ Total (Please make checks payable to GBPG.) send to: Heathcote Center 21300 Heathcote Road Freeland, MD 21053 heathcote@jhu.edu http://welch.jhu.edu/~lfelch/heathcote.html (our server seems to be down currently, but please check again!) --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 24 17:49:45 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id RAA15780 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:49:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Reply-To: "permaculture" From: "Rick and Rose" To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Classes Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:35:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 62 Does anyone know of any classes coming up in my area? I am interested in Natural Farming and Permaculture. I have some books and have been reading, but would like a little hands on, and seeing how things are done. I know there are internet courses and would like to take one some time but for now am looking for something in this area. Thanks, Rick I live in Mid Missouri. --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Wed Mar 24 22:41:02 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA20077 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:41:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA13562; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:30:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from glacier.binc.net (glacier.binc.net [205.173.176.10]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA13148 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:27:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailbag.com (msn-1-80.x2.binc.net [198.70.31.80]) by glacier.binc.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA10460; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:45:49 -0600 Message-ID: <36F9A26B.B5FFCEAA@mailbag.com> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:41:47 -0600 From: Mark & Kelly Ludwig Reply-To: mnkludwig@mailbag.com Organization: Junck Grass-Based Dairy Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Unleesh@aol.com, Permaculture list Subject: Re: Difference, Community, and Sustainability References: <9a89cc77.36f7770a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 63 Greetings, My comments and questions come from having lived in both the "alternative" world and the mainstream world on and off. I have found no less community in "mainstream American society" than anywhere else. Please consider..... Unleesh@aol.com wrote: > > It seems to me that there are some elements in mainstream American society > that really get in the way of sustainable community ... > > ...and a main one is intolerance of difference, exceptionality ... i really do > think it's a big deal that just wanting to control one's appearance, for > example, is such a big deal ... if you have different colored hair, or like to > dress differently, or if you're gay, or if you're pagan, people make it really > really hard for you to get along or fit in You choose to frame this as other people make it hard for you to get along/fit in. My perception is different and is that it takes two to tango, in other words, you make choices that take you down a path where you accentuate the differences. There have been times in my life when I felt it was important to me to have brightly colored extremely short hair, dress differently than most people, and constantly focus on cultural, political, religious and sexual differences. And there have been times in my life when I learned a lot from the "regular people" around me because I stopped putting energy into the differences and started trying to listen to them on their own terms. Before you decide I'm preachy and obnoxious I'll admit this change in my attitude was not something I dreamed up because I thought it was the right thing to do.......on the contrary.....I was living alone in a pretty remote rural area and NEEDED THE HELP of my right wing patriarchal homophobic Christian neighbors. There was nothing like splitting wood and hauling water to remind me that I wasn't so different after all. The great thing about asking for help is it seems to give others permission to ask you for help, too, and then you're really in the club, even if you look funny or have different cultural/political/religious/sexual qualities. I swear, all I had to do was STOP JUDGING THEM, and they stopped judging me. I decided it was more sustainable for me to focus on the areas of common ground (they are there if you look.) And it felt good! >and thusly you have to reach > outside your "community" (snicker) to other "communities" (snicker) for those > who are different there, and thus maintain phone, car, and email relations > across local channels ... if I could be myself locally, find companions > locally ... but realistically, amongst all these monster trucks and mainstream > Xtian moralistic judgemental mediocre fools? *sigh* ... these technologies > perhaps are bandaid solutions to social problems which need to be faced head > on ... > I decided it was less important to seek out people who shared my interest in Egyptian Goddess culture or who shared my militant views about images of women in the media. I was inspired by Gene Logsdon's concept of "becoming native to this place." I decided the right wing patriarchal homophobic Christian down the road was less like a weed and more like a native plant who was better adapted to the local niche than I was. So, to get better adapted to the local niche I suspended my negativity/emphasis on differences long enough to listen and learn, and sure enough, I am better adapted now. It took energy to do that and it isn't always comfortable. Sometimes a neighbor will say something truly offensive and to be true to myself I must speak up. I try real hard to comment on the content of what they said and not on their worth as a human being. It offends me just as much for you to generalize people as "moralistic judgmental mediocre fools" as it would for one of them to make a comment about organic farming hippies (or whatever.) How many of these moralistic judgmental mediocre fools have you taken the risk of opening your heart to? I don't want to berate you; I want you to see you have a choice in how you respond to them. All I can say is I am happier now and feel more community connection. For me, it was exhausting to subconsciously categorize people and lonely to dismiss everyone who was mainstream. I also observed that just within a few hundred square miles here in southwest Wisconsin, there exists a "mosaic of subcultures" within the right wing patriarchal homophobic Christians. In some communities the Lutherans and the Catholics, or the Swedes and the Germans, or the farmers and the laborers, see as much difference between themselves as they would see between themselves and a vegetarian black lesbian poet. At the same time, the world shares information so fast and so thoroughly via TV, the Internet and other media that mainstream folks have at least heard about much of what's alternative. For example, my elderly dairy farming uncle who rarely leaves the farm except to go to the hospital had a book on herbal healing on his shelf. Now, he wouldn't have bragged about that, but neither did he seem to have any prejudice against herbalists. Fascinating. I will freely admit that as a white person in a white community my ways of being different are not visible to the naked eye, so I have the luxury of de-emphasizing them. > ...if there were widespread celebration of diversity, I could see neighborhood > gardens, regular weekly block parties, and car poolings, etc ... i could see > safe bicycling and public transpo ... but i don't trust enough, and thus only > reach out to those who seem to share something in common that they're > different ... > I think you're right about it being a trust issue. But someone's got to take the risk first and all I can control is me, so maybe I need to take the first step. If someone will really listen to me talk about the practicality of solar and wind energy, greywater systems, agroforestry, and reducing consumption of consumer goods destined for the landfill, and all I have to do is leave my hair brown and take the time to sit down with them and reciprocate by asking what's important to them.........I'll do it in a heartbeat. I acknowledge the importance of celebrating diversity because without actively celebrating different cultures there is the danger of being so color-blind, gender-blind, etc., that we all become the same. I'd call for us to also celebrate sameness, in other words celebrate our common ground as beings who need air, water, clean food, safe shelter, companionship and love, regardless of our differences. Kelly Ludwig Town of Dunn South Central Wisconsin mnkludwig@mailbag.com From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Thu Mar 25 14:48:40 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id OAA09136 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:48:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:33:05 -0400 Reply-To: "permaculture" From: Gary Gallon To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] WTO and Environnment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Sender: cibe@pop.web.net X-Orcpt: rfc822;permaculture@listserv.unc.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id OAA09136 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 64 THE GALLON ENVIRONMENT LETTER 506 Victoria Ave., Montreal, Quebec H3Y 2R5 Ph. (514) 369- 0230, Fax (514) 369- 3282 Email cibe@web.net Vol. 3, No. 8, March 19, 1999 ************************************************************** INTERNATIONAL INTERNATIONAL INTERNATIONAL ************************************************************** WTO PROPOSES A WORLD ENVIRONMENT ORGANIZATION The Director General, of the World Trade Organization (WTO), Renato Ruggiero, called for the creation of a World Environment Organization parallel to the World Trade Organization. He made the call March 15, 1999, at the WTO High-Level Symposium on Trade and the Environment, in Geneva. This was the first WTO meeting by senior trade officials with non- governmental organizations. Delegates from the 134 nations who are members of the WTO met with representatives of 26 inter-governmental organizations, and people from 130 non-governmental organizations representing the environment, development, agriculture, trade unions, consumers, academia and business. Ruggiero said that he, "would suggest that we need a (WTO) similar multilateral rules-based system for the environment - a World Environment Organization to also be the institutional and legal counterpart to the World Trade Organization. Source Environment News Service (ENS). ********************************************************************* U.S. $300 BILLION IN ENERGY SUBSIDIES DISTORTING TRADE AND HARMING THE ENVIRONMENT Claus Toepfer, Executive Director of the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) said UNEP is ready, willing and able to strengthen collaboration with WTO. Toepfer said UNEP will be gathering essential data on the environmental consequences of international economic policies. He said that, "Many countries have identified, for example, environmental and trade benefits of removing price-distorting subsidies. The environmental costs of these distortions are now known to be staggering." He added that, experts estimate that these inefficient policies cost society over US$20 billion dollars in fishing subsidies; over $300 billion in energy subsidies and over $350 billion in agricultural subsidies." The energy subsidies alone result in excessive energy consumption and greenhouse gas emissions, and result in major environmental problems ranging from oil spills to gas emissions from well head extractions. *********************************************************************** STOP HARMFUL FISHING SUBSIDIES Subsidizing fishing may be good momentarily for certain regions. But in the long run, the subsidies harm the economy and deplete the fisheries. Canada found this out when its government subsidies resulted in the collapse of cod fisheries on the Atlantic Coast. Now the United States joined by Australia, Iceland, New Zealand and the Philippines, proposed a curb on fishing subsidies at an WTO environmental meeting in Geneva sponsored by the 134-nation World Trade Organization. A recent World Bank study estimated government subsidies to promote fishing totaled $11 billion to $20 billion annually. Opponents say such subsidies distort trade by reducing fishing costs and placing downward pressure on world seafood prices at a time of growing shortages of some types of fish. "Fisheries stocks are in decline worldwide", said Terry Garcia, assistant commerce secretary for oceans and atmosphere. "Put simply, too many boats are chasing too few fish." Eliminating government subsidies would help reduce the problem of overfishing worldwide, he said. U.S. Source, "Seeks Fishing Subsidies Curb", by Martin Crutsinger, AP Economics Writer. Full story can be seen at website http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2558786742-49a ******************************************************************* GERMANY BEGIN TO SHIFT FROM PERSONAL INCOME TAX TO ENERGY USE TAXES Germany is in the process of passing a law that essentially calls for a shift of employment- related taxes to energy taxes. The tax shift will help modify consumption patterns to better protect the environment. European economists and public policy officials have been researching the potential effects for years, but now we have a "natural" experiment to observe. Energy taxes as of April 1, 1999 will become more expensive in Germany. The German government pushed its bill introducing the eco-tax through the Bundestag in a vote with 332 in favour, and 299 against. Gasoline and diesel fuel will rise by in price by 6 Pfennig (0.06 DM) a litre, heating oil by 4 Pfennig a litre. The tax on natural gas will go up by 0.32 Pfennig per kilowatt-hour, electricity by 2 Pfennig per kilowatt-hour. Reduced rates of the tax will apply for manufacturing concerns, agriculture, and the railway. The government wants to use the additional tax revenue to finance a lowering of old age security premiums to 19.5 percent. See GermNews website at http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/germnews **************************************************************** WTO FOCUSES ON TRADE IN FOREST PRODUCTS The World Trade Organization (WTO) trade ministers will meet in Seattle at the WTO's Third Ministerial, November 30 to December 3, 1999, where they plan to introduce a sweeping new agenda that may result in the increased worldwide consumption of wood products. It may open up native forests to logging and could result in weakening environmental protections, and open the door to invasive species. The most urgent initiative is a new forest products agreement that U.S. Trade Representative Charlene Barshefsky told Congress is a top negotiating priority. A number of other agenda items could have even greater impacts on forests. Advisors for the proposed new positions are executives from Weyerhaeuser, Boise Cascade, International Paper, and Georgia-Pacific. No one representing protections for forests or workers is at the table. The new proposal by the U.S. and supported by Canada, focuses on reducing what the forest industry considers "barriers to trade." The result will be cost reductions for wood products consumers, stimulating demand and intensifying logging. While the current scope of talks covers only tariffs (import taxes), negotiations are expected to introduce "non-tariffs," which can refer to anything, even environmental laws. The U.S., Canada, and other big exporters want total elimination of tariffs on wood products worldwide, particularly in the enormous Japanese and Korean markets. This report was prepared by Victor Menotti, Director of the IFG Environment Program. Contact him at ph. 415-771-3394. Also contact Phil Knight, Native Forest Network, Yellowstone Branch, Last Refuge Campaign, Gondwana Forest Sanctuary, PO Box 6151, Bozeman, Montana 59771-6151 ph. (406) 586- 3885, email pknight@wildrockies.org website http://www.nativeforest.org **************************************************************** VELES, MACEDONIA A CITY'S ECONOMY CHOKED BY POLLUTION One of major problems holding back the economic recovery of the eastern European nations is the complete lack of pollution control and environmental laws. One example is the City of Veles in Macedonia (pop. 60,000). Uncontrolled industry in this once Communist block nation, has left a 60 year legacy of air and water pollution, that continues today. Until 1991, Macedonia was part of Yugoslavia, and Veles was discovered to be the most polluted city in the entire Balkan region. A research team led by engineer, Antoni Efremov, found that pollution, that had been controlled 20 years ago in countries like Canada, Japan, Germany and the U.S., flowed unabated into the lungs and food of the Veles people. The team documented pollution induced health problems including "respiratory diseases, leukemia, nerve and kidney diseases, and deformities in the newborn. Forty-five percent of the children surveyed have blood and urine problems. Fifteen companies in the middle of the city have been identified as the major polluters. They refuse to invest in pollution prevention and pollution control. They opted instead to off load the cost outside the plant gate by letting the people absorb the off site emissions. Three plants in particular concern the research team. They are Kiro Cucuk, a ceramic factory that produces bricks; Topilnica Veles, a smelter for zinc and lead; and, a bus production factory. Everyday harmful substances are emitted such as cadmium and lead. Veles is responsible for 10% of the entire amount of sulphur dioxide emitted in Macedonia. Researchers have found that the environment in a circle 7,000 meters (4.5 miles) out from the smelter is all polluted. Lead levels are seven to 16 times greater than allowed. Cadmium concentrations are 25 times more than permitted; zinc levels are five to nine times greater than allowed. One Veles gynecologist, Dr. Marija Jordanova, says, she has seen many patients with malformed fetuses and many women with predisposition to cancer of the uterus. More than 10 percent of the Veles children between eight and 10 years old are predisposed to get leukemia. Mortality from respiratory diseases has increased 179%. The sperm count of Veles men is the lowest in the Balkans. Source, "Macedonian City Dying of Pollution", by Natasha Dokovska, March 12, 1999 © Environment News Service (ENS) 1999. ********************************************************************** FORBES HOSTING ENVIRONMENTAL SUPER CONFERENCE APRIL 28 TO 30, 1999 IN WASHINGTON, D.C. Forbes Magazine and Business Publishers, Inc., announce the 1999 Environmental Superconference, which will be held April 28-30, 1999 at the Capital Hilton in Washington, D.C. the Superconference is aimed primarily at suppliers of environmental goods and services who want to explore opportunities for business with government and industry, and develop business/growth strategies. If you are interested in adding a link or a listing to the Superconference website on your site, please visit the website at http://www.bpinews.com/super.html, ph. 1. (800) 274-6737, Fax (301) 587-4530, email bpiconferences@bpinews.com **************************************************************** CALIFORNIA CONFERENCE ON ADVANCED ENERGY GENERATION The International Colloquium and Exhibit on Environmentally Preferred Advanced Energy Generation (ICEPAG) will be held by the combustion Laboratory of the University of California - Irvine Campus. Lectures provided by world-renowned professionals and intensive short courses instructed by leading practitioners directed toward an understanding of energy technologies, environmental impacts, economic drivers, and regulatory issues. Designed for policy decision- makers, energy strategy decision-makers, and those interested in the emerging energy technologies, the environment, regulations, and the advent of distributed power. Sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy, the California Energy Commission, Pacific Rim Consortium on Energy Combustion and the Environment in cooperation with the World Bank. It will be held March 22 to 25, 1999, at the Irvine Hyatt Regency, Irvine, California. Visit website http://www.parcon.uci.edu/colloquium ***************************************************************************** NATIONAL CENTRE FOR BUSINESS & ECOLOGY, U.K. The National Centre for Business & Ecology at the University of Salford, Greater Manchester, U.K. has just launched a new website. The site contains details of the four diverse services offered by the Centre, information on recently completed and successful projects, case histories, staff profiles etc. Contact, Fiona Nicholls, Project Co-ordinator, National Centre for Business & Ecology, The Peel Building, University of Salford, Greater Manchester, M5 4WT, Tel. 0161 295 5276, Fax 0161 295 5041, email F.Nicholls@NCBE.salford.ac.uk website http://www.NCBE.co.uk ******************************************************************** BUSINESS & ECONOMICS CONFERENCE, CANARY ISLAND The International Conference of The Business & Economics Society will be held in the Canary Islands/Spain (Melia Las Palmas Hotel), July 22-26, 1999. You may participate as panel organizer, presenter of one or two papers, chair, moderator, discussant, or observer. The deadline for abstract submission and participation is March 30, 1999. All papers will pass a blind peer review process for publication consideration in the anthology BUSINESS & ECONOMICS FOR THE 21ST CENTURY - VOLUME III. For more information please contact Helen Kantarelis through Regular Mail Business & Economics Society International, c/o Helen Kantarelis, 64 Holden Street Worcester, MA 01605-3109, USA Tel(508) 595-0089 email hkantar@assumption.edu Website http: //www.assumption.edu/html/faculty/kantar/missb1.html **************************************************************** HOME DEPOT STORES FACE ECONOMIC BOYCOTT ON OLD GROWTH PRODUCTS The Home Depot store in Williston, Vermont is facing a shoppers boycott because of its sales of wood products made from old growth forest trees in Canada and the U.S. In the Vermont Home Depot an International Day Action group went inside the store behind a coffin that represented the death of old- growth forests from around the world. The group paraded through the store for about 30 minutes, chanting "Home Depot Stop logging old-growth forests; your greenwashing can not fool us." Police arrived on the scene and the protesters continued the demonstration outside, passing out informational materials to Home Depot patrons. Groups represented in this action included ACERCA (Action for Community and Ecology in the Rainforests of Central America), Goddard College SPEAK, Middlebury College Rainforest Action Group, Native Forest Network, St. Michael's College Save the Planet, and Vermont-Burma Alliance. To understand the issues behind this action contact, Action for Community & Ecology in the Rainforests of Central America ( ACERCA), Post Office Box 57, Burlington, Vermont 05402, ph. (802) 863- 0571, fax (802) 864- 8203, email acerca@sover.net Website at http://www.nativeforest.org/campaigns/acerca/index.html *********************************************************************** INTERNATIONAL TASK FORCE TO FIGHT WILDLIFE CRIME IN AFRICA As the human population grows, and as new rich classes are created in developing and emerging economies, the demand for exotic animals and animal parts has grown dramatically. Simple measures to protect the biodiversity of animals have to be expanded. As a result the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) has established an "African INTERPOL". On March 17, 1999, six countries formally empowered an international Task Force to fight wildlife crime in Africa. They are the Republic of the Congo, Kenya, Lesotho, the United Republic of Tanzania, Uganda and Zambia. The Task Force, whose headquarters will be at the Kenya Wildlife Service in Nairobi, will function under the Lusaka Agreement on Cooperative Enforcement Operations directed at Illegal Trade in Wild Fauna and Flora, signed in Lusaka in 1994. The objective of the Agreement is to reduce and ultimately eliminate illegal trade in wildlife. The establishment of the Task Force will also strengthen the effectiveness of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES). For more information, please contact Mr. Donald Kaniaru, Director, UNEP Law Unit, Tel. 254-2-623507, Fax, 254-2-230198, E-mail donald.kaniaru@unep.org or Tore J. Brevik, Director, UNEP Communications and Public Affairs, tel 254-2-623292, fax 254-2-623927. *********************************************************************** ENVIRONMENT BUDGET HELPING U.S. ECONOMY, NOT HARMING IT The growing U.S. economy has not been slowed by some of the toughest environmental laws in the world, according to the Clinton Administration's chief environmental official. Some Republicans contend that many environmental programs proposed by the White House in previous years -- and new ones for fiscal 2000 — cost too much and are misguided. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Carol Browner, however, told a Senate environmental committee that the administration's $7.2 billion EPA budget request for next year would help, not hurt, economic growth. See full article at website http://news.wateronline.com/industry-news/19990305-8535.html ************************************************************************* ECONOMICS AND BIODIVERSITY WEBSITE ESTABLISHED BY IUCN The IUCN The World Conservation Union, established its Economics Service Unit January 1998. It is responsible for an array of projects and activities on finance, incentives, trade, assessment and valuation. The Unit has created the Economics of Biodiversity Internet site. The website provides economics tools and approaches to enable IUCN and other environmental departments to use economics competently in promoting and implementing biodiversity and endangered species protection programs. If you are interested in investing in the work of the Economics Service Unit, please contact Frank Vorhies at fwv@hq.iucn.org. For more information contact, IUCN-The World Conservation Union, 28 Rue Mauverney, CH-1296 Gland, Switzerland, tel (41) 22 999 0001, fax (41) 22 999 0025, email economics@hq.iucn.org website at http://economics.iucn.org/ ********************************************************************* YALE UNIVERSITY CORPORATE ENVIRONMENTAL LEADERSHIP SEMINAR, JUNE 1999 Yale University is running a Corporate Environmental Leadership Seminar in New Haven, Connecticut between June 6 and June 17, 1999. The course is intended to offer state- of- the- debate assessments of contemporary issues, to sharpen tools needed for environmental management and to enhance the strategic thinking of participants. The course is delivered by a distinguished group of faculty members from Yale's Law, Medical, Management and Forestry and Environmental Studies Schools as well as outside experts through a mix of discussions, problem-solving exercises, and case studies. The 1999 Seminar will place emphasis on international issues, public and private roles, practical implications of industrial ecology and leadership activities. Further information can be obtained from Janet Testa or Marian Chertow at the Yale School of Forestry and Environmental Studies, 205 Prospect Street, New Haven, Connecticut 06511-2189, USA , email janet.testa@yale.edu or via the website http://www.yale.edu/cels. ************************************************************** CANADA CANADA CANADA CANADA ************************************************************** CANADA'S FOREIGN AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT HOLDS HEARINGS ON WTO AND FTAA The Government of Canada is holding Parliamentary Hearings on the World Trade Organization (WTO) and the potential new Free Trade Agreement of the Americas (FTAA). Your company and your organization is invited to make presentations at a series of public hearings to be held across Canada. This is your opportunity to be heard on measures that will improve the environment and that will improve trade in environmental goods and services. There are a number of misguided efforts to name environmental protection measures as "non tariff trade barriers" that should be removed. There are those that feel national measures to protect the environment impede free trade. However, both can co exist. The Council of Canadians has prepared a package of information. The Trade (WTO/ FTAA) Action Package will include background information on trade and investment including the WTO and the FTAA. T receive a copy email adashtgard@canadians.org To make a presentation/ submission or request a hearing in your home city, contact Richard Dupuis, Clerk of the Standing Committee Phone 613- 996- 1540, email dupuir@parl.gc.ca For more information on these hearings check the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade (DFAIT) website http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/ (click on news releases, select 1999 and the relevant information is dated Feb. 8, 1999). ****************************************************************** OBTAIN PROFILE ON ONTARIO WASTE MANAGEMENT INDUSTRY SUBSECTOR OF THE ENVIRONMENT INDUSTRY The Green Industry Office (GIO) of the Ontario Ministry of the Environment (MOE) published a sector study entitled, "Economic and Market Assessment of the Ontario Waste Management Industry". It was prepared by TCI Convergence Limited (with sub-contracting assistance from OCETA). The report focuses on Ontario's industrial and hazardous waste management sector and is intended to provide a general overview of the size and structure of this environment industry subsector in Ontario. It provides a summary of business opportunities for Ontario- based firms in both domestic and international markets. The study examines strategies for Ontario's waste management companies to successfully compete in the new and emerging market opportunities in both domestic and international markets. More information contact Nora Gurland, Senior Officer, MOE Green Industry Office, 135 St. Clair Ave., Toronto, ph. (416) 314- 7912. Website *********************************************************************** ENVIRONMENT AND ECONOMY CONFERENCE, SASKATCHEWAN An international conference on "Nature, Wealth And The Human Economy In The Next Millennium", will be held August 27 to 29, 1999, at the Luther College, University Of Regina, Saskatchewan. Sponsored by The Canadian Society For Ecological Economics, International Center For Sustainable Global Development, Canadian Plains Research Center, and Saskatchewan Environment And Resource Management. Presentations will be made by Dr. Robert Costanza, Past President of the International Society of Ecological Economics and co-author of An Introduction to Ecological Economics. And by Dr. William Rees, President of the Canadian Society of Ecological Economics and co-author of Our Ecological Footprint. What's It About? Conference issues will include free market providing effective solutions to global warming; economics and conserving biodiversity; and, current economic theories on production. To participate, contact, Dr. Paul C. James, Chair, CANSEE Conference Planning Committee, c/o Fish & Wildlife Branch, 3211 Albert Street, Regina, Saskatchewan, S4S 5W6, Ph. (306) 787- 9058, fax (306) 787- 9544, email paul.james.erm@govmail.gov.sk.ca *********************************************************************** CANADIAN UNIVERSITY PROGRAM ON CLIMATE CHANGE The Canadian University Program on Climate Change (CUPCC) is an applied research program that is bringing together university and other experts in the climate sciences, biology and ecosystem analysis, technology, and social sciences. The purpose of this university- based network is to facilitate the creation of an integrated multi disciplinary capacity in the university system that will be required to manage the climate change issue in Canada in the long term. >From fifteen Canadian universities and affiliates such as the Climate Research Network and the Ontario Centre for Environmental Technology Advancement (OCETA) has the participation of ecosystem experts, technological experts, political scientists, economists, experts in economic and general equilibrium modeling, and experts in simulated trading systems. CUPCC held a meeting in Toronto Feb. 10 & 11, 1999, which included participants from the Massachusetts's Institute of Technology (MIT), Carnegie-Mellon University, and the European Forum on Integrated Assessment. The output of the meeting was identification of plans and priorities for multi disciplinary research of interest to stakeholder representatives from industry, government, and universities. For more info contact Dr. Adele Buckley, VP Research and Technology, OCETA, at ph. 416- 778- 5281 or email abuckley@oceta.on.ca. Or see Website Http://www.cics.uvic.ca/cupcc/index.htm. Or the OCETA website at http://www.oceta.on.ca ************************************************************ **************************************************************************** $180.90 ANNUAL SUBSCRIPTION TO THE GALLON ENVIRONMENT LETTER Subscribe to "The Gallon Environment Letter". The 8 to 10 page newsletter is loaded with up to date business and policy information that your company, government agency, or organization can use immediately. It is provided twice a month. It is also accompanied by the "Green Jobs Available Report" that is sent to you once a month. Subscribe now. Send a cheque for $180.90 a year ($169.00+ $11.90 GST) and help finance the research that delivers inside information and breaking news on environment business in Canada and the world. Make your cheque out to, "Gallon Letter", 506 Victoria Ave., Montreal, Quebec, H3Y 2R5. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Copyright (c) 1999 Canadian Institute for Business and the Environment, Montreal All rights reserved. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 15:24:04 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA10121 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:24:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA13821; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:13:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ms1.paclink.net (ms1.paclink.net [206.170.104.36]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03048 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:58:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.96.144.1] by ms1.paclink.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id 313 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:01:07 -0800 Message-ID: <36FA8707.523D@paclink.net> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:57:12 -0800 From: "Christopher Page" Reply-To: cpage@paclink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@envirolink.org Subject: native plants/seeds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 65 I recall some posts on this topic already but I need some more resources for my library. Does anyone know of really good books on: 1. growing native plants (for food & fibers), particularly Californian; and, 2. good books on permaculture techniques (that can produce yields sufficient to feed a family of four, 100 sheep, and have some leftover for sale in local markets for cash/barter)? We are researching what it will take in terms of materials, supplies, equipment, land, preparation, education, etc. to establish a small family permaculture farm in South-central coastal California. Somebody mentioned JH Hudson as a seed supplier... anyone know others that would fit the above bill? Many thanks in advance, Christopher Page From owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Thu Mar 25 15:24:58 1999 Received: from listserv.oit.unc.edu (listserv.oit.unc.edu [152.2.25.17]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA10151 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:24:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44444 "HELO localhost" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with SMTP id <165349-24732>; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:18:27 -0500 Received: from m4.bigpond.net.au ([24.192.1.19]:1495 "EHLO m4.bigpond.net.au" ident: "TIMEDOUT") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with ESMTP id <165404-24732> convert rfc822-to-8bit; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:17:22 -0500 Received: from [24.192.21.91] (CPE-24-192-21-91.vic.bigpond.net.au [24.192.21.91]) by m4.bigpond.net.au (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with SMTP id HAA13566 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:17:17 +1100 (EDT) Message-Id: <199903252017.HAA13566@m4.bigpond.net.au> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:20:09 +1100 Reply-To: permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Sender: owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu From: retrieve To: Subject: Helper Required for ConFest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Orcpt: rfc822;permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 66 Everyone, Some of you may have met Matt, at the last ConFest. He is a wonderful person and brings much joy to those who come in contact with him. Unfortunately this Easter he doesn¹t have a helper that can get him there and back as well as help him at the Festival. He does need some assiting with eating, dressing, toilet and gettiing around but he does meet people easily and it isn¹t full time. I suspect he will spend alot of the time getting around meeting people like he did last ConFest. If you can or know of someone who can help please email Matt at matty@skynet.net.au Regards Mr Robin Macpherson Retrieve PO Box 49 Elwood Vic 3184 Australia Email: retrieve@vic.bigpond.net.au Phone : 03 95312120 Fax : 03 95314111 ---Retrieve, building relationships online------- Member of the Filemaker Solutions Alliance Professional Member of the Association of Database Developers From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 17:39:23 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA13673 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:39:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA03532; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:26:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03014 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:23:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from 156.46.250.43 (vppp43.westby.mwt.net [156.46.250.43]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA14187 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:23:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36FAB918.1093@mwt.net> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:30:50 -0600 From: miekal and Organization: Awkward Ubutronics X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: permaculture@envirolink.org Subject: Re: native plants/seeds References: <36FA8707.523D@paclink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: dtv@mwt.net Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 67 Christopher Page wrote: > Somebody mentioned JH Hudson as a seed supplier... anyone know others > that would fit the above bill? they are outside of redwood california, & I believe they grow alot of what they sell. it is all seed (no plants) which I think is far more interesting challenge (& much cheaper!).... From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Thu Mar 25 18:46:05 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id SAA15976 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:46:05 -0500 (EST) From: EWerb@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:34:14 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [permaculture] SoCal Permaculture Newsletter Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk To: "permaculture" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id SAA15976 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 68 Welcome to the South Coast Permaculture Guild Spring e- newsletter.california.us The Guild promotes permaculture education through workshops, fieldtrips, work parties, lectures, videos, slides and having fun. Please copy and paste sections to send to friends, this is a large file to forward. For hardcopy, email sbpcnet@silcom.com, or print this out. SCPG is open to all who want to learn and apply permaculture design principles. We network among our members to help each other and the community. Many of our activities take place at Community Environmental Council (CEC) Gildea Resource Center, 930 Miramonte Drive, Santa Barbara, heading up towards the mesa, off Carrillo Street. South Coast Permaculture Guild meetings are held the third Tuesday of each month, 7 - 9 pm at CEC. All levels of experience are welcome. Members make presentations, report on permaculture projects, discuss interests and news. Future meeting dates: Apr. 20, May 18, June 15, July 20, Aug. 17, Sept. 21 Oct 19, Nov. 16, no meeting Dec. Here, along with SCPG events, are calendar listings from Santa Barbara Botanic Garden, permaculture design courses and other regional perma activities. Please check all event dates for schedule changes. For more information about the lectures and courses, please call CEC Gardens Program at 805-963-0583 x114, South Coast Permaculture Guild 805-962-2571, or email sbpcnet@silcom.com. SCPG is proud to work with Community Environmental Council on lectures and workshops about growing food, connecting people with the source of their food, and agriculture’s role in building and maintaining sustainable resources. SCPG courses explore how people can incorporate these ideas into their lives. Holistic Management, our first Spring offering, is a comprehensive decision- making and planning model applied to the management of farms, ranches, businesses, and individual lives. It incorporates goal setting, the appropriate use of tools, and careful monitoring of effects to move toward social, financial and ecological sustainability. Created by Allan Savory, a biologist from Zimbabwe, he challenges conventional decision-making with this process for direct and prolonged observation. Holistic Management (Island Press 1999). Savory is the founding director of the Center for Holistic Management, Albuquerque, NM. www.holisticmanagement.com March 26 Fri. Holistic Management: Welcome to the Decision Making Age, lecture with Christopher Peck 7:30 PM at CEC, $3 donation requested. Christopher is a Certified Educator with the Center of Holistic Management, Permaculture Drylands Institute curriculum director and owner of Holistic Solutions, a holistic management and permaculture-based consulting firm. March 27-28 Sat./Sun. Two-Day Holistic Management Workshop with Christopher Peck, and special guest Duncan Blair, local SB County holistic rancher. 9 am - 5:30 pm at CEC, cost $100 plus $25 for materials and handbook. Limited to 20 people. This workshop covers Holistic Management; history, brainstorming, goals, planning income, ecosystem blocks and tools, monitoring for success and beneficial impact of grazing animals on the landscape. We will also visit a local holistically managed ranch. Permaculture Design grads Tom Drummond and Ethan Zickler will assist. To register and for more info, contact Margie Bushman, SCPG 805-962-2571 or email sbpcnet@silcom.com. Jim Lowery and Mary Brooks of Earth Skills have taught tracking, nature awareness and earth philosophy for the past twelve years. Many skills in this workshop were learned from Tom Brown Jr. This will be a hands on workshop, not one of abstractions, introducing very specific skills. www.anamorph.com/earthskills.html April 17-18 Sat./Sun. “Sense of Place” A weekend by Earth Skills for our guild at the newly-formed Sedgwick Reserve near Santa Barbara, owned by University of California. Cost $150. Camping with dinner and breakfast included. This weekend course will help you develop tools for reading the patterns of nature. Get in touch with natural land rhythms using permaculture principles to work in harmony with nature. Limit to 20 people, after March 30 please call to check for space. Contact Wes Roe, 805-964-1555 or email lakinroe@silcom.com. Please make checks to Wes Roe, send to 33 Paradise Rd., Santa Barbara, CA 93105 April 30 Fri. “Cities that Grow their Own Food - A Vision of the Future” a panel discussion hosted by Oscar Carmona, CEC Garden Director; with Michael Ableman, Center for Urban Agriculture Director; Steve Moore, biodynamic CSA farmer; Michelle Moscone, Food Security Issues; Michael Feeney, SB Land Trust; a member of the Interfaith Community, and a nutritionist. 7:30 pm at CEC, $3 donation requested. This panel will discuss how we can work together to grow our food, adapt to eating seasonal foods, and growing safe, local food. We can create a wealth of small-scale community food growers and avoid environmental impacts of transporting food thousands of miles, by simply changing the use of our lands and where we buy our food. We will discuss the unique south facing topography of Santa Barbara and its ideal climate for year-round food growing. Come join in the discussion. May 1 Sat. All day Workshops with members of the panel further discussing “Cities that Grow their Own Food - A Vision of the Future.” For more info Contact CEC Gardens program at 805-963-0583 x 114, South Coast Permaculture Guild 962-2571 or email sbpcnet@silcom.com. June 4 Fri. Grains of the Planet slide show and talk by Lorenz Schaller, International Grain Expert and Director of Kusa Seed Research Foundation, in Ojai. Slide show 7:30 pm at CEC, $3 donation requested. Experience this colorful slide presentation of humanity’s relationship with the sacred cereal grasses such as barley, corn, millets, oats, rice, wheat, and other edible seedcrops from around the world. Many of these seeds are remnants of vanishing or disappearing heirloom crops. Kusa offers these seeds and information about their culture and use as foods. The focus of Kusa is on production in “grain gardens” and small-scale mini farms. Schaller has been growing rare and ancient seeds in Ojai Valley for the past thirteen years. You can support his work by joining Kusa as a Friend at $30; their Seed and Literature Catalog is $5. Kusa, P.O. Box 761, Ojai, CA 93024. Co-sponsored by CEC, Herb Circle and SCPG. For more info contact CEC Garden Program 805-963-0583 x 114, SCPG 962-2571 or email sbpcnet@silcom.com June 5 Sat. Grain Planting Workshop 10 am -12 noon, cost $30. This hands on practical workshop is for beginners and experienced growers who are interested in propagating cereal grains for food or ornament. Learn to prepare a seedbed, sow different varieties of grains, techniques for successfully producing human food grain on a small scale, pretest seeds for germination, irrigate, storage and much more. June 5 Sat. Plant and Seed Exchange 1:30 - 4:00 pm Join in and support this great idea to bring seeds plants and people together in a celebration. If you have no seeds or plants to exchange, a donation can be given. Herb Circle Director Carol Ostroff will display her large collection of herbs grown at the CEC for trade/donation. Home gardeners, and permaculture members bring their seeds and plants, seed saving demonstrations, food and music. We are looking for more co-sponsors to help with this special event. For info and to reserve tables at the Seed and Plant Exchange - call Wes Roe 964-1555 lakinroe@silcom.com. Co-sponsored by the Herb Circle, 805-569-7616, earthbound1@netscape.com, & CEC Gardens Program. April 18 Sun. Earth Day De la Guerra Square 9 am - 4:30 pm. We will be there for our second year with a South Coast Permaculture Guild booth to tell folks about perma design and our activities. We need 4-6 folks to staff the booth for the day. All materials will be provided. Call Margie Bushman 962-2571. SB Earth Day is always a good time, join us ! April 24 Sat. SB Botanic Garden Plant & Book Sale Large selection of native and drought tolerant plants and books. 1212 Mission Canyon Road. For more info 805-682-4726 x101 March 28 Sun., April 3, 11, 17, 25 Practical Preparedness Program in Atascadero, CA. For more info call Larry Santoyo 800-469-5857 email dotcalm@fix.net www.permaearth.org March 27 April 10, 24 Designing the Home Ecosystem at Cuesta College in Paso Robles with Larry Santoyo, call 805-546-3132 for info/reg. May weekends Permaculture Design Course in San Diego, CA with Larry Santoyo & Bruce Bebe. See info for SDPC. May 9-22 Permaculture Design Course at Heartwood Healing Center in mountains of Northern California. Teacher Penny Livingston Permaculture Institute of Northern CA and Brock Dolman Occidental Arts and Ecology Center. Cost $400 Tuition ($50 early registration discount.) Camping and organic vegetarian meals $450, total: $850 / $100 deposit by April 20. Contact Michael Smith, 707-923-5000, for more info - c/o Island Mountain Institute, 220 Harmony Lane, Garberville, CA 95542 June 6-12 Build Here Now - a natural Building and Permaculture Convergence at the Lama Foundation, Taos County, New Mexico. Topics: sustainable timber harvest and preparation, timber framing, saw bale, cob, straw clay, earthen plasters, permaculture design, eco village design, watershed management, high alpine forest ecology and ecosystem regeneration. Cost $500 till April 30, then $550 after. Children 5-16 half price, includes three vegetarian meals per day and on-site lodging. Sponsored by Permaculture Drylands Institute, Last Straw Journal, and Lama Foundation. Contact PDI at 505-983-0663 email pdrylands@aol.com 1999 Hands-on Workshops on Orcas Island, WA - at the Bullock brothers’ ranch - featured in the the Global Gardener video with Bill Mollison. April 23-26 Horticulture for Permaculture $350, July 10- Aug. 6 Permaculture Skills Intensive $1750, Sept. 17-20 Water Harvesting $350 Instructors Doug, Joe and Sam Bullock, Michael Lockman and guests. For more info send SASE to Bullock Workshops c/o WE- Design, PO Box 45472, Seattle, WA 98145, email michaellockman@juno.com May 1-14 Permaculture Design Course at intentional community Casa Las Barrancas in Pojoaque, New Mexico. Strong emphasis on hands-on, community, wetlands, fields, orchards and gardens, herbspiral, key-hole/mandala garden, and plant identification. Taught by Permaculture Institute, USA director Scott Pittman, 13 years experience teaching and designing on 4 continents; and Joel Glansberg, food forest wizard and guild designer. Cost $950 includes three organic meals a day + $130 limited space in double occupancy or $30 camping . Call 505-455-0270, fax 505-455-0514 email pci@permaculture-inst.org Permaculture Institute of Southern California Designing and Planting a Polycultural-Agroforest Windbreak - Laganza Farms, Aguanga, CA March 27 Sat. Laganza Farms is Eos Institute’s certified organic/biodynamic permaculture fieldsite. A series of workshops in design, planting and grow out of a microclimate modifier for the garden and orchard. An intermixed annual/perennial agroforestry system using legumes, canopy cover crops, trees, shrubs, grasses and herbs will provide a saleable option to the farm while creating frost-free microclimates. Intern opportunities. Please call for other dates, carpooling and directions. May 29 Sat. Food System Design for a Resort/Spa Rancho La Puerta / Tres Estrellas Farm, Tecate, Baja California, Mexico A demonstration orchard and raised-bed gardens supply fruits and vegetables for guests at resort/spa Rancho La Puerta. This will be the site for our hands-on bilingual exercises in composting and gardening technologies with an emphasis on fertility management, crop rotation, planting patterns, irrigation and integrated pest management. Sarah Liva Brightwood, Landscape Architect/Permaculture Designer and Enrique Ceballos, Biologist and Nursery Horticulturist will be our hosts. The landscapes are exceptional. Nearby Mt Cuchuma, an ancient sacred mountain, was once surrounded by oceans and looked like an island to the Indians. Also planned are visits to a local school educational nature center to see sculptured outdoor classrooms for art, music and poetry. Instructors: Gabriel Howearth, Designer, Bionational Coevolution Gardens, Baja, California, and co-founder Seeds of Change; Bill Roley, PhD., Director, Permaculture Institute of Southern California. Courses are $65 per workshop, scholarships and work trades are available for a limited number of folks. Another trip will be held in the fall, on Sept. 25. Contact Dr. Bill Roley Permaculture Institute of Southern California, 1027 Summit Way, Laguna Beach, CA 02651 tel. 949-494-5843 fax 949-494-0129 June 13-26 Permaculture Design Course on Big Sur Coast CA, Summer solstice 1999. For more info call Larry Santoyo 800-469-5857 email dotcalm@fix.net www.permaearth.org Regional Permaculture Guild Listserves South Coast Perma Guild uses an email listserve for specialized local info, requests and discussion. Thanks to our web wizard John Howe, www.arashi.com, there are now three regional lists for scpg, ccpg (central coast), and sdpg (San Diego). The subscription process is very simple, just try it: send to: Majordomo@arashi.com, no subject, message text: subscribe scpg. To subscribe to the other guild lists, use their name instead of scpg. Ojai Perma Guild The Ojai Permaculture Guild is developing classes and events. Please contact Dave White, PO Box 973 Ojai, CA 93024, 805-646 9809 email: ArtDetour@aol.com San Diego Permaculture San Diego Permaculture Center (SDPC) is seeking to network (worknet) with other organizations as a permaculture design resource for the coastal and inland chaparral desert bio-region. A Sustainable Community workshop is planned for March or April, and a Permaculture Design Certification course will be held in May over five weekends at a central San Diego location. Larry Santoyo and Bruce Bebe will present the course. Please contact us for more details. San Diego Permaculture Center, address: 3639 Midway Drive Suite 267, San Diego, CA 92010. Tel: 619-860-2123, Fax: 619-221-8006, email: permaculturecntr@hotmail.com (Bruce Bebe) Santa Barbara Botanic Garden Many classes are offered every quarter. Call for a current class schedule 805/682-4726 ext. 102. A two year Certificate program is offered in California Plant Diversity. Learn about California native plant species and their habitats, including the basics of plant biology, plant identification, plant communities and the role of plants in California ecosystems. April 25 Sun. Lecture on Sustainabilty by local landscape design architect Owen Dell. Owen is a great instructor, teaching sustainable landscape design before they invented the word. 2 - 4 pm, $12 general public. SBBG, 1212 Mission Canyon Rd. Garden of Hope Villa Garden at the Juvenile Hall ( Villa Esperanza) in Goleta would like to thank all guild members and friends who put in the water system, gateway trellis and benches.These efforts helped so much. Another shameless request for more flower and vegetable seeds, avocado, fruit trees, citrus, and ornamental plants are still needed to keep the Villa Gardens flowing, it is truly appreciated Contact Jill Cloutier 963-5433 or Kim Redmond 565-8509 Eco-village Discussion Group SCPG members Michael and Carol Lind invite people with dreams of living in a community that lives in harmony on the land to come together to discuss their vision. They are seeking a group to explore locating and purchasing property, creating meaningful work, and living in earth-based houses using renewable energy. Please send your name, address, phone, fax, email & your interests, skills, history and dreams to Michael and Carol Lind, 155 Verde Oak Drive, Oak View, CA 93022-9702, or email: HiDesigns@aol.com. All info received in strict confidence. Earth Charter Movement Earth Charter Movement is a part of a worldwide effort to get the U. N. to adopt a sustainable Earth Charter by 2002. The Earth Charter would encourage communities to respect all living life forms, biodiversity, native people rights, social rights, and change the way they use resources. The SB County grassroots group is spearheaded by Stephen Aizenstat, president of Pacifica Graduate Institute, Carpinteria. Plans are to set up a local chapter if there is interest and plan a major local event. SB contact Phyllis Jackson director of continuing education (ext. 159) Pacifica Grad Institute, 249 Lambert Rd., Carpinteria, CA 93013 805-969-3626 fax 805-565-1932, www.earthcharter.org Santa Barbara Hours Accepted Here Santa Barbara Hours is an alternative to cash known as community currency designed to create more community links and recognize the value of our time in new ways. SCPG is proud to accept half our workshop fees and full payment for lectures, when possible, in Santa Barbara Hours (except Earth Skills' Sense of Place workshop.) To find out how to participate in SB Hours (it's free) please call 682-9972, e-mail: sustain@silcom.com www.silcom.com/~sustain/SBHours New CEC Executive Director Former SLO County Supervisor Bud Laurent has recently taken the helm of CEC as its new Executive Director. Good luck and welcome, Bud! Herb Circle Herb Circle meets Sunday, 2 - 4 pm at the Community Environmental Council’s Gildea Center, 930 Miramonte Dr. Fees are $10 per class or become a member for $30 and pay $5. Classes started Feb. 7 and will continue and include April 25. Classes cover planning, planting, propagation, herbwalk, wildcrafting, home remedies, energetics/smudgings and flower essence. Call Carol Ostroff, Herb Circle Director at 569-7616 earthbound1@netscape.net. Herb Circle offers a three month Certified Apprenticeship. The program includes 10 hours of work study, working in greenhouse, propagation, harvesting, planting, herbs maintenance in the garden, healing and crafts with herbs, and also marketing skills. Limited to 10 people. $25 registration fee, free attendance to Herb Circle Sunday 2-4. “These times are critical for people to reconnect with the Earth, learn sustainability and understand natural ways to maintain health.” For more info call Carol Ostroff 569-7616, or write CEC 930 Miramonte Dr. SB, CA 93109 Permaculture Activist Great mag on US perm, lists courses, events, sells perma books articles, etc. cost $19/year Subscriptions, PO Box 1209 Black Mountain, NC 28711 http://sunsite.unc.edu/pc-activist/index.html pcactiv@sunsite.unc.edu Cool Sites to Check Out This newsletter, and other SCPG news online at www.ewerb.webjump/scpg.html - mention this ad for your discount! American Bamboo Society www.bamboo.org/abs/ American Permaculture Directory a listing of grads services and courses www.permaculture.net Million Solar Roofs Initiative (MSR) www.epa.gov/solar Fall 1999 Permaculture Design Course in SB South Coast Permaculture Guild and the Santa Barbara Permaculture Network is proud to announce Santa Barbara’s first PDC with Larry Santoyo and guest teachers. Larry is a leading permaculture teacher with over 20 years experience. He and his wife, Kathryn Santoyo, run Santoyo & Associates, a permaculture consultancy. The course will be held at the CEC Gildea Resource Center - five weekends leading to a Permaculture Design Certificate. The Design Course is for people interested in sustainable living practices and includes practical training for gardeners, land managers, farmers, architects, planners, community service volunteers, environmental educators and students. Sessions include presentations, training and “learning-by doing,” collaboration with permaculture designers and others. There will be guest speakers some evenings from the community to share skills, videos and slide presentations. Weekend Course Outline Sept. 18/19 Introductions, Permaculture Design Principals Observation, Pattern Understanding, Design Teams Oct 2/3 New Ecology: Fire, Water , Earth and Air (sectors) Methodologies of Design Sunday Afternoon Making a Base Map, Finding contour; A-frame and bunyip Oct 16/17 Techniques and Technologies for Home Ecosystems (Zone 1 & 2) Sunday afternoon Hands on project TBA Nov. 6/7 Techniques and technologies for Earth Stewardship (Zone 3, 4, 5) EcoVillage Design, Sunday afternoon hands on project TBA Nov. 20/21 Right Livelihood & Community Strategies Sunday Afternoon: Design Team Presentation/Critiques Pot Luck Dinner/ Talent Show Tuition for Design Course Certificate is $600 or $65 per day. To register and for more info, contact SCPG, Margie Bushman 805-962-2571 sbpcnet@silcom.com, or write SCPG, 224 E. Figueroa St. #C, Santa Barbara, CA 93101 Hopedance Hopedance is a great mag out of SLO, now moving also south to help promote sustainable community growth, right livelihood, permaculture, voluntary simplicity, local currency, and lots of other cool stuff. Subscribe and support $10 per year 6 issues Hopedance PO Box 15609 CA 93406 www.hopedance.org email hopedance@aol.com Clifton Smith Remembered The SB Botanic Garden bookstore, 1212 Mission Canyon Rd., carries an extensive variety of botanical and horticultural titles. Shopping at the Garden bookstore does not require paying admission, and members receive a 10% discount on all purchases. New in the bookstore is the revised edition of Clifton Smith’s A Flora for the Santa Barbara Region. Clif Smith spent over 50 years studying the flora of the Santa Barbara region. Although not for beginners, this book is an illustrated guide to over 1900 plant species in Santa Barbara County, including the Channel Islands. It also discusses the regions geology, topography, climate, and botanical history. Stop by and support this great resource. California Native Plant Society Matilija Copy is the California Native Plant Society local Channel Islands chapter newsletter listing native plants sales, hikes, ways to learn about and observe our native habitat. $5 donation, P.O. Box 5628, Ventura, CA 93005. Permaculture Drylands Journal Permaculture Drylands Institute publishes a great resource of NM /AZ area expertise to tap into, useful articles on projects, long term permaculture sites, classes and news. Send $35 - $49 for student rate or $50 - $99 for Nutrient fixers to help support the Permaculture Drylands Institute includes two issues of the Permaculture Drylands Journal plus the quarterly PDI newsletter, Branching Out PDI, P.O. Box 156 Santa Fe NM 87504-0156 www.permaculture.net. Ecohomes Homes for the Future LA-based Ecohome promotes alternative and energy saving architecture. Newsletter, tours, events, extensive networking. Spring fund-raiser to tour the house of author/architect James Hubbell 310-542-2525. Eco-Home Network 4344 Russell Ave. LA 90027 213-662-5207 fax 213-662-4744 www.ecohome.org ecohome@gte.net Island Seed & Feed Guild members Matt Buckmaster and Brenton Kelly bought established South Coast organics headquarters, Island Seed & Feed in January. This unique store carries the finest selection of natural Pet, Garden, & Farm Supplies. Knowledgeable service, good prices, organic starts in season, bulk amendments by the pound or 50# bag. A little effort to find but worth it. 29 South Fairview Ave., Goleta, CA 93117 (805) 967-5262 www.IslandSeed.com IslandSeed@earthlink.net Something Good to Eat Kim Redmond, 805-565-8509, is selling totally organic Banana Ranch Tamales, using local produce. They are wrapped in banana leaves, and carried by Lazy Acres and Wild Oats in SB. Primitive Skills Classes Denise Bourque has started teaching Primitive Skills Classes in SB. Contact Sandy Danaher 805-965-2325 to signup for her classes. Starting March 6 Firemaking without Matches, followed by Primitive /Shelters , Food -hunting and gathering, water collecting, purification. Classes are Sat. 9:30 am -12:30 pm, cost $15/class. Permaculture Heart and Practice Cultivating sacred space, personal skills, and nourishing relationships, we ride the surge of Spring toward Summer Solstice and beyond. Workshops, shared meals, discussions, resource exchange, and celebrations honor nature as teacher and provide opportunities to enjoy seasonal abundance. We’ll explore powerful patterns in nature which breathe vitality throughout the cosmos, on the living earth, and in own bodies. Our focus starts with fun and practicality. Unique gatherings, site visits, and patient guidance are coordinated by progressive designer/educator/heartist Akiva Werbalowsky and linked with ongoing activities throughout the bioregion. Benefits to participants include awareness, skill development, and growing community for those actively caring for the earth or simply deepening their capacity to care. Sliding scale donation/offerings encouraged, everyone welcome. For more info and schedule updates, email or phone Akiva: akivaw@hotmail.com 805-783-9546 publication notes – writers/gatherers - Wes Roe 805.964.1555 and Margie Bushman 805.962.2571 editor-designer Eric Werbalowsky 805.652.1142 artist Matt Buckmaster cover/inside original art ©1999 --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Mar 25 19:01:09 1999 -0500 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA16275 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:01:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA12757; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:43:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12329 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:39:28 -0500 (EST) From: EWerb@aol.com Received: from EWerb@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id nUDMa01940; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:34:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:34:14 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: SoCal Permaculture Newsletter Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by envirolink.org id SAA12331 Reply-To: EWerb@aol.com Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 69 Welcome to the South Coast Permaculture Guild Spring e- newsletter.california.us The Guild promotes permaculture education through workshops, fieldtrips, work parties, lectures, videos, slides and having fun. Please copy and paste sections to send to friends, this is a large file to forward. For hardcopy, email sbpcnet@silcom.com, or print this out. SCPG is open to all who want to learn and apply permaculture design principles. We network among our members to help each other and the community. Many of our activities take place at Community Environmental Council (CEC) Gildea Resource Center, 930 Miramonte Drive, Santa Barbara, heading up towards the mesa, off Carrillo Street. South Coast Permaculture Guild meetings are held the third Tuesday of each month, 7 - 9 pm at CEC. All levels of experience are welcome. Members make presentations, report on permaculture projects, discuss interests and news. Future meeting dates: Apr. 20, May 18, June 15, July 20, Aug. 17, Sept. 21 Oct 19, Nov. 16, no meeting Dec. Here, along with SCPG events, are calendar listings from Santa Barbara Botanic Garden, permaculture design courses and other regional perma activities. Please check all event dates for schedule changes. For more information about the lectures and courses, please call CEC Gardens Program at 805-963-0583 x114, South Coast Permaculture Guild 805-962-2571, or email sbpcnet@silcom.com. SCPG is proud to work with Community Environmental Council on lectures and workshops about growing food, connecting people with the source of their food, and agriculture’s role in building and maintaining sustainable resources. SCPG courses explore how people can incorporate these ideas into their lives. Holistic Management, our first Spring offering, is a comprehensive decision- making and planning model applied to the management of farms, ranches, businesses, and individual lives. It incorporates goal setting, the appropriate use of tools, and careful monitoring of effects to move toward social, financial and ecological sustainability. Created by Allan Savory, a biologist from Zimbabwe, he challenges conventional decision-making with this process for direct and prolonged observation. Holistic Management (Island Press 1999). Savory is the founding director of the Center for Holistic Management, Albuquerque, NM. www.holisticmanagement.com March 26 Fri. Holistic Management: Welcome to the Decision Making Age, lecture with Christopher Peck 7:30 PM at CEC, $3 donation requested. Christopher is a Certified Educator with the Center of Holistic Management, Permaculture Drylands Institute curriculum director and owner of Holistic Solutions, a holistic management and permaculture-based consulting firm. March 27-28 Sat./Sun. Two-Day Holistic Management Workshop with Christopher Peck, and special guest Duncan Blair, local SB County holistic rancher. 9 am - 5:30 pm at CEC, cost $100 plus $25 for materials and handbook. Limited to 20 people. This workshop covers Holistic Management; history, brainstorming, goals, planning income, ecosystem blocks and tools, monitoring for success and beneficial impact of grazing animals on the landscape. We will also visit a local holistically managed ranch. Permaculture Design grads Tom Drummond and Ethan Zickler will assist. To register and for more info, contact Margie Bushman, SCPG 805-962-2571 or email sbpcnet@silcom.com. Jim Lowery and Mary Brooks of Earth Skills have taught tracking, nature awareness and earth philosophy for the past twelve years. Many skills in this workshop were learned from Tom Brown Jr. This will be a hands on workshop, not one of abstractions, introducing very specific skills. www.anamorph.com/earthskills.html April 17-18 Sat./Sun. “Sense of Place” A weekend by Earth Skills for our guild at the newly-formed Sedgwick Reserve near Santa Barbara, owned by University of California. Cost $150. Camping with dinner and breakfast included. This weekend course will help you develop tools for reading the patterns of nature. Get in touch with natural land rhythms using permaculture principles to work in harmony with nature. Limit to 20 people, after March 30 please call to check for space. Contact Wes Roe, 805-964-1555 or email lakinroe@silcom.com. Please make checks to Wes Roe, send to 33 Paradise Rd., Santa Barbara, CA 93105 April 30 Fri. “Cities that Grow their Own Food - A Vision of the Future” a panel discussion hosted by Oscar Carmona, CEC Garden Director; with Michael Ableman, Center for Urban Agriculture Director; Steve Moore, biodynamic CSA farmer; Michelle Moscone, Food Security Issues; Michael Feeney, SB Land Trust; a member of the Interfaith Community, and a nutritionist. 7:30 pm at CEC, $3 donation requested. This panel will discuss how we can work together to grow our food, adapt to eating seasonal foods, and growing safe, local food. We can create a wealth of small-scale community food growers and avoid environmental impacts of transporting food thousands of miles, by simply changing the use of our lands and where we buy our food. We will discuss the unique south facing topography of Santa Barbara and its ideal climate for year-round food growing. Come join in the discussion. May 1 Sat. All day Workshops with members of the panel further discussing “Cities that Grow their Own Food - A Vision of the Future.” For more info Contact CEC Gardens program at 805-963-0583 x 114, South Coast Permaculture Guild 962-2571 or email sbpcnet@silcom.com. June 4 Fri. Grains of the Planet slide show and talk by Lorenz Schaller, International Grain Expert and Director of Kusa Seed Research Foundation, in Ojai. Slide show 7:30 pm at CEC, $3 donation requested. Experience this colorful slide presentation of humanity’s relationship with the sacred cereal grasses such as barley, corn, millets, oats, rice, wheat, and other edible seedcrops from around the world. Many of these seeds are remnants of vanishing or disappearing heirloom crops. Kusa offers these seeds and information about their culture and use as foods. The focus of Kusa is on production in “grain gardens” and small-scale mini farms. Schaller has been growing rare and ancient seeds in Ojai Valley for the past thirteen years. You can support his work by joining Kusa as a Friend at $30; their Seed and Literature Catalog is $5. Kusa, P.O. Box 761, Ojai, CA 93024. Co-sponsored by CEC, Herb Circle and SCPG. For more info contact CEC Garden Program 805-963-0583 x 114, SCPG 962-2571 or email sbpcnet@silcom.com June 5 Sat. Grain Planting Workshop 10 am -12 noon, cost $30. This hands on practical workshop is for beginners and experienced growers who are interested in propagating cereal grains for food or ornament. Learn to prepare a seedbed, sow different varieties of grains, techniques for successfully producing human food grain on a small scale, pretest seeds for germination, irrigate, storage and much more. June 5 Sat. Plant and Seed Exchange 1:30 - 4:00 pm Join in and support this great idea to bring seeds plants and people together in a celebration. If you have no seeds or plants to exchange, a donation can be given. Herb Circle Director Carol Ostroff will display her large collection of herbs grown at the CEC for trade/donation. Home gardeners, and permaculture members bring their seeds and plants, seed saving demonstrations, food and music. We are looking for more co-sponsors to help with this special event. For info and to reserve tables at the Seed and Plant Exchange - call Wes Roe 964-1555 lakinroe@silcom.com. Co-sponsored by the Herb Circle, 805-569-7616, earthbound1@netscape.com, & CEC Gardens Program. April 18 Sun. Earth Day De la Guerra Square 9 am - 4:30 pm. We will be there for our second year with a South Coast Permaculture Guild booth to tell folks about perma design and our activities. We need 4-6 folks to staff the booth for the day. All materials will be provided. Call Margie Bushman 962-2571. SB Earth Day is always a good time, join us ! April 24 Sat. SB Botanic Garden Plant & Book Sale Large selection of native and drought tolerant plants and books. 1212 Mission Canyon Road. For more info 805-682-4726 x101 March 28 Sun., April 3, 11, 17, 25 Practical Preparedness Program in Atascadero, CA. For more info call Larry Santoyo 800-469-5857 email dotcalm@fix.net www.permaearth.org March 27 April 10, 24 Designing the Home Ecosystem at Cuesta College in Paso Robles with Larry Santoyo, call 805-546-3132 for info/reg. May weekends Permaculture Design Course in San Diego, CA with Larry Santoyo & Bruce Bebe. See info for SDPC. May 9-22 Permaculture Design Course at Heartwood Healing Center in mountains of Northern California. Teacher Penny Livingston Permaculture Institute of Northern CA and Brock Dolman Occidental Arts and Ecology Center. Cost $400 Tuition ($50 early registration discount.) Camping and organic vegetarian meals $450, total: $850 / $100 deposit by April 20. Contact Michael Smith, 707-923-5000, for more info - c/o Island Mountain Institute, 220 Harmony Lane, Garberville, CA 95542 June 6-12 Build Here Now - a natural Building and Permaculture Convergence at the Lama Foundation, Taos County, New Mexico. Topics: sustainable timber harvest and preparation, timber framing, saw bale, cob, straw clay, earthen plasters, permaculture design, eco village design, watershed management, high alpine forest ecology and ecosystem regeneration. Cost $500 till April 30, then $550 after. Children 5-16 half price, includes three vegetarian meals per day and on-site lodging. Sponsored by Permaculture Drylands Institute, Last Straw Journal, and Lama Foundation. Contact PDI at 505-983-0663 email pdrylands@aol.com 1999 Hands-on Workshops on Orcas Island, WA - at the Bullock brothers’ ranch - featured in the the Global Gardener video with Bill Mollison. April 23-26 Horticulture for Permaculture $350, July 10- Aug. 6 Permaculture Skills Intensive $1750, Sept. 17-20 Water Harvesting $350 Instructors Doug, Joe and Sam Bullock, Michael Lockman and guests. For more info send SASE to Bullock Workshops c/o WE- Design, PO Box 45472, Seattle, WA 98145, email michaellockman@juno.com May 1-14 Permaculture Design Course at intentional community Casa Las Barrancas in Pojoaque, New Mexico. Strong emphasis on hands-on, community, wetlands, fields, orchards and gardens, herbspiral, key-hole/mandala garden, and plant identification. Taught by Permaculture Institute, USA director Scott Pittman, 13 years experience teaching and designing on 4 continents; and Joel Glansberg, food forest wizard and guild designer. Cost $950 includes three organic meals a day + $130 limited space in double occupancy or $30 camping . Call 505-455-0270, fax 505-455-0514 email pci@permaculture-inst.org Permaculture Institute of Southern California Designing and Planting a Polycultural-Agroforest Windbreak - Laganza Farms, Aguanga, CA March 27 Sat. Laganza Farms is Eos Institute’s certified organic/biodynamic permaculture fieldsite. A series of workshops in design, planting and grow out of a microclimate modifier for the garden and orchard. An intermixed annual/perennial agroforestry system using legumes, canopy cover crops, trees, shrubs, grasses and herbs will provide a saleable option to the farm while creating frost-free microclimates. Intern opportunities. Please call for other dates, carpooling and directions. May 29 Sat. Food System Design for a Resort/Spa Rancho La Puerta / Tres Estrellas Farm, Tecate, Baja California, Mexico A demonstration orchard and raised-bed gardens supply fruits and vegetables for guests at resort/spa Rancho La Puerta. This will be the site for our hands-on bilingual exercises in composting and gardening technologies with an emphasis on fertility management, crop rotation, planting patterns, irrigation and integrated pest management. Sarah Liva Brightwood, Landscape Architect/Permaculture Designer and Enrique Ceballos, Biologist and Nursery Horticulturist will be our hosts. The landscapes are exceptional. Nearby Mt Cuchuma, an ancient sacred mountain, was once surrounded by oceans and looked like an island to the Indians. Also planned are visits to a local school educational nature center to see sculptured outdoor classrooms for art, music and poetry. Instructors: Gabriel Howearth, Designer, Bionational Coevolution Gardens, Baja, California, and co-founder Seeds of Change; Bill Roley, PhD., Director, Permaculture Institute of Southern California. Courses are $65 per workshop, scholarships and work trades are available for a limited number of folks. Another trip will be held in the fall, on Sept. 25. Contact Dr. Bill Roley Permaculture Institute of Southern California, 1027 Summit Way, Laguna Beach, CA 02651 tel. 949-494-5843 fax 949-494-0129 June 13-26 Permaculture Design Course on Big Sur Coast CA, Summer solstice 1999. For more info call Larry Santoyo 800-469-5857 email dotcalm@fix.net www.permaearth.org Regional Permaculture Guild Listserves South Coast Perma Guild uses an email listserve for specialized local info, requests and discussion. Thanks to our web wizard John Howe, www.arashi.com, there are now three regional lists for scpg, ccpg (central coast), and sdpg (San Diego). The subscription process is very simple, just try it: send to: Majordomo@arashi.com, no subject, message text: subscribe scpg. To subscribe to the other guild lists, use their name instead of scpg. Ojai Perma Guild The Ojai Permaculture Guild is developing classes and events. Please contact Dave White, PO Box 973 Ojai, CA 93024, 805-646 9809 email: ArtDetour@aol.com San Diego Permaculture San Diego Permaculture Center (SDPC) is seeking to network (worknet) with other organizations as a permaculture design resource for the coastal and inland chaparral desert bio-region. A Sustainable Community workshop is planned for March or April, and a Permaculture Design Certification course will be held in May over five weekends at a central San Diego location. Larry Santoyo and Bruce Bebe will present the course. Please contact us for more details. San Diego Permaculture Center, address: 3639 Midway Drive Suite 267, San Diego, CA 92010. Tel: 619-860-2123, Fax: 619-221-8006, email: permaculturecntr@hotmail.com (Bruce Bebe) Santa Barbara Botanic Garden Many classes are offered every quarter. Call for a current class schedule 805/682-4726 ext. 102. A two year Certificate program is offered in California Plant Diversity. Learn about California native plant species and their habitats, including the basics of plant biology, plant identification, plant communities and the role of plants in California ecosystems. April 25 Sun. Lecture on Sustainabilty by local landscape design architect Owen Dell. Owen is a great instructor, teaching sustainable landscape design before they invented the word. 2 - 4 pm, $12 general public. SBBG, 1212 Mission Canyon Rd. Garden of Hope Villa Garden at the Juvenile Hall ( Villa Esperanza) in Goleta would like to thank all guild members and friends who put in the water system, gateway trellis and benches.These efforts helped so much. Another shameless request for more flower and vegetable seeds, avocado, fruit trees, citrus, and ornamental plants are still needed to keep the Villa Gardens flowing, it is truly appreciated Contact Jill Cloutier 963-5433 or Kim Redmond 565-8509 Eco-village Discussion Group SCPG members Michael and Carol Lind invite people with dreams of living in a community that lives in harmony on the land to come together to discuss their vision. They are seeking a group to explore locating and purchasing property, creating meaningful work, and living in earth-based houses using renewable energy. Please send your name, address, phone, fax, email & your interests, skills, history and dreams to Michael and Carol Lind, 155 Verde Oak Drive, Oak View, CA 93022-9702, or email: HiDesigns@aol.com. All info received in strict confidence. Earth Charter Movement Earth Charter Movement is a part of a worldwide effort to get the U. N. to adopt a sustainable Earth Charter by 2002. The Earth Charter would encourage communities to respect all living life forms, biodiversity, native people rights, social rights, and change the way they use resources. The SB County grassroots group is spearheaded by Stephen Aizenstat, president of Pacifica Graduate Institute, Carpinteria. Plans are to set up a local chapter if there is interest and plan a major local event. SB contact Phyllis Jackson director of continuing education (ext. 159) Pacifica Grad Institute, 249 Lambert Rd., Carpinteria, CA 93013 805-969-3626 fax 805-565-1932, www.earthcharter.org Santa Barbara Hours Accepted Here Santa Barbara Hours is an alternative to cash known as community currency designed to create more community links and recognize the value of our time in new ways. SCPG is proud to accept half our workshop fees and full payment for lectures, when possible, in Santa Barbara Hours (except Earth Skills' Sense of Place workshop.) To find out how to participate in SB Hours (it's free) please call 682-9972, e-mail: sustain@silcom.com www.silcom.com/~sustain/SBHours New CEC Executive Director Former SLO County Supervisor Bud Laurent has recently taken the helm of CEC as its new Executive Director. Good luck and welcome, Bud! Herb Circle Herb Circle meets Sunday, 2 - 4 pm at the Community Environmental Council’s Gildea Center, 930 Miramonte Dr. Fees are $10 per class or become a member for $30 and pay $5. Classes started Feb. 7 and will continue and include April 25. Classes cover planning, planting, propagation, herbwalk, wildcrafting, home remedies, energetics/smudgings and flower essence. Call Carol Ostroff, Herb Circle Director at 569-7616 earthbound1@netscape.net. Herb Circle offers a three month Certified Apprenticeship. The program includes 10 hours of work study, working in greenhouse, propagation, harvesting, planting, herbs maintenance in the garden, healing and crafts with herbs, and also marketing skills. Limited to 10 people. $25 registration fee, free attendance to Herb Circle Sunday 2-4. “These times are critical for people to reconnect with the Earth, learn sustainability and understand natural ways to maintain health.” For more info call Carol Ostroff 569-7616, or write CEC 930 Miramonte Dr. SB, CA 93109 Permaculture Activist Great mag on US perm, lists courses, events, sells perma books articles, etc. cost $19/year Subscriptions, PO Box 1209 Black Mountain, NC 28711 http://sunsite.unc.edu/pc-activist/index.html pcactiv@sunsite.unc.edu Cool Sites to Check Out This newsletter, and other SCPG news online at www.ewerb.webjump/scpg.html - mention this ad for your discount! American Bamboo Society www.bamboo.org/abs/ American Permaculture Directory a listing of grads services and courses www.permaculture.net Million Solar Roofs Initiative (MSR) www.epa.gov/solar Fall 1999 Permaculture Design Course in SB South Coast Permaculture Guild and the Santa Barbara Permaculture Network is proud to announce Santa Barbara’s first PDC with Larry Santoyo and guest teachers. Larry is a leading permaculture teacher with over 20 years experience. He and his wife, Kathryn Santoyo, run Santoyo & Associates, a permaculture consultancy. The course will be held at the CEC Gildea Resource Center - five weekends leading to a Permaculture Design Certificate. The Design Course is for people interested in sustainable living practices and includes practical training for gardeners, land managers, farmers, architects, planners, community service volunteers, environmental educators and students. Sessions include presentations, training and “learning-by doing,” collaboration with permaculture designers and others. There will be guest speakers some evenings from the community to share skills, videos and slide presentations. Weekend Course Outline Sept. 18/19 Introductions, Permaculture Design Principals Observation, Pattern Understanding, Design Teams Oct 2/3 New Ecology: Fire, Water , Earth and Air (sectors) Methodologies of Design Sunday Afternoon Making a Base Map, Finding contour; A-frame and bunyip Oct 16/17 Techniques and Technologies for Home Ecosystems (Zone 1 & 2) Sunday afternoon Hands on project TBA Nov. 6/7 Techniques and technologies for Earth Stewardship (Zone 3, 4, 5) EcoVillage Design, Sunday afternoon hands on project TBA Nov. 20/21 Right Livelihood & Community Strategies Sunday Afternoon: Design Team Presentation/Critiques Pot Luck Dinner/ Talent Show Tuition for Design Course Certificate is $600 or $65 per day. To register and for more info, contact SCPG, Margie Bushman 805-962-2571 sbpcnet@silcom.com, or write SCPG, 224 E. Figueroa St. #C, Santa Barbara, CA 93101 Hopedance Hopedance is a great mag out of SLO, now moving also south to help promote sustainable community growth, right livelihood, permaculture, voluntary simplicity, local currency, and lots of other cool stuff. Subscribe and support $10 per year 6 issues Hopedance PO Box 15609 CA 93406 www.hopedance.org email hopedance@aol.com Clifton Smith Remembered The SB Botanic Garden bookstore, 1212 Mission Canyon Rd., carries an extensive variety of botanical and horticultural titles. Shopping at the Garden bookstore does not require paying admission, and members receive a 10% discount on all purchases. New in the bookstore is the revised edition of Clifton Smith’s A Flora for the Santa Barbara Region. Clif Smith spent over 50 years studying the flora of the Santa Barbara region. Although not for beginners, this book is an illustrated guide to over 1900 plant species in Santa Barbara County, including the Channel Islands. It also discusses the regions geology, topography, climate, and botanical history. Stop by and support this great resource. California Native Plant Society Matilija Copy is the California Native Plant Society local Channel Islands chapter newsletter listing native plants sales, hikes, ways to learn about and observe our native habitat. $5 donation, P.O. Box 5628, Ventura, CA 93005. Permaculture Drylands Journal Permaculture Drylands Institute publishes a great resource of NM /AZ area expertise to tap into, useful articles on projects, long term permaculture sites, classes and news. Send $35 - $49 for student rate or $50 - $99 for Nutrient fixers to help support the Permaculture Drylands Institute includes two issues of the Permaculture Drylands Journal plus the quarterly PDI newsletter, Branching Out PDI, P.O. Box 156 Santa Fe NM 87504-0156 www.permaculture.net. Ecohomes Homes for the Future LA-based Ecohome promotes alternative and energy saving architecture. Newsletter, tours, events, extensive networking. Spring fund-raiser to tour the house of author/architect James Hubbell 310-542-2525. Eco-Home Network 4344 Russell Ave. LA 90027 213-662-5207 fax 213-662-4744 www.ecohome.org ecohome@gte.net Island Seed & Feed Guild members Matt Buckmaster and Brenton Kelly bought established South Coast organics headquarters, Island Seed & Feed in January. This unique store carries the finest selection of natural Pet, Garden, & Farm Supplies. Knowledgeable service, good prices, organic starts in season, bulk amendments by the pound or 50# bag. A little effort to find but worth it. 29 South Fairview Ave., Goleta, CA 93117 (805) 967-5262 www.IslandSeed.com IslandSeed@earthlink.net Something Good to Eat Kim Redmond, 805-565-8509, is selling totally organic Banana Ranch Tamales, using local produce. They are wrapped in banana leaves, and carried by Lazy Acres and Wild Oats in SB. Primitive Skills Classes Denise Bourque has started teaching Primitive Skills Classes in SB. Contact Sandy Danaher 805-965-2325 to signup for her classes. Starting March 6 Firemaking without Matches, followed by Primitive /Shelters , Food -hunting and gathering, water collecting, purification. Classes are Sat. 9:30 am -12:30 pm, cost $15/class. Permaculture Heart and Practice Cultivating sacred space, personal skills, and nourishing relationships, we ride the surge of Spring toward Summer Solstice and beyond. Workshops, shared meals, discussions, resource exchange, and celebrations honor nature as teacher and provide opportunities to enjoy seasonal abundance. We’ll explore powerful patterns in nature which breathe vitality throughout the cosmos, on the living earth, and in own bodies. Our focus starts with fun and practicality. Unique gatherings, site visits, and patient guidance are coordinated by progressive designer/educator/heartist Akiva Werbalowsky and linked with ongoing activities throughout the bioregion. Benefits to participants include awareness, skill development, and growing community for those actively caring for the earth or simply deepening their capacity to care. Sliding scale donation/offerings encouraged, everyone welcome. For more info and schedule updates, email or phone Akiva: akivaw@hotmail.com 805-783-9546 publication notes – writers/gatherers - Wes Roe 805.964.1555 and Margie Bushman 805.962.2571 editor-designer Eric Werbalowsky 805.652.1142 artist Matt Buckmaster cover/inside original art ©1999 From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Mar 24 13:59:59 1999 -0500 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08487 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:59:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13121 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:50:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13070 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:50:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-67ppp235.epix.net [199.224.67.235]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id LAA13754; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:50:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36F91846.4410FD46@epix.net> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:52:22 -0500 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: valerie frances CC: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: A New Perspective on Agriculture References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 70 valerie frances wrote: > "When conditions are ripe for it, these suburban lots could quickly be > developed into mini-farms, either as home-based businesses or as a > source of much good food for the family living there. That sort of > flexibility, coupled with broad-based ownership of prime agricultural > land in the form of suburban lots, may turn out to be a very lucky and > important break at a moment when we need one badly." > Anyone interested in seeing this type of agriculture first hand should go to Japan. I was there a year ago and was amazed at the intensity of food producing plots. Not a single square foot is wasted! Even in the downtown areas in of Tokyo there were plots as small as 4x5 ft that had veggies growing in them. There is no grass for yards *anywhere* near the population centers. It is considered a waste of resourses not to grow food in open spaces. Even at major interchanges on the highways they have planted the whole area in vegetables. Steve Groff. -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Mar 25 17:49:53 1999 -0500 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA13921 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:49:52 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA06480 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:58:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com ([207.141.153.190]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA06466 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:57:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool016-max14.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.15.116]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id HTN6XVTR; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:02:57 -0500 Message-ID: <36FAB0D5.E83B3056@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:55:34 -0800 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: urban ag References: <199903251858.NAA16340@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 71 While it would sure be nice to have many more of our urban and suburban lawns converted into gardens, the fact remains that suburban and urban contruction frequently involves vast disruption of soil ecology, and even more often, the complete removal of native topsoil to be replaces by chem fertilizer and imported sod. If folks want to farm and urban 1/2 acre plots are too small for them, perhaps they should buy multiple lots in suburban area, or even better, farm land prior to subdivision. As can be seen by the fact that Japan and Korea are net importers of food, and soon china may be as well, the concept of urban/suburban ag is NOT a solution, only one of many parts- other crucial parts include the conservation of farmland in immediate proximity to urban area, and the continued profitability of that land, which is, i believe, the primary reason we are reading this list. phil gillman To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Thu Mar 25 21:44:25 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA18468 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:44:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA03537; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:27:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from volcano-pub.affiliate.nortel.net (root@volcano-pub.affiliate.nortel.net [137.118.9.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03184 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:24:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from hp-customer (firewall-ext.volcano.net [208.234.127.4]) by volcano-pub.affiliate.nortel.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA29993 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:27:19 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990325181903.007a0b50@pop.volcano.net> X-Sender: cec@pop.volcano.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:19:03 -0800 To: permaculture@envirolink.org From: Grace Carter Subject: Re: native plants/seeds In-Reply-To: <36FAB918.1093@mwt.net> References: <36FA8707.523D@paclink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_922443543==_" Reply-To: cec@volcano.net Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 72 --=====================_922443543==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This heirloom gardening site has open-pollinated and heirloom varieties of garden plants listed, with hyperlinks to the companies selling each of the varieties. HTH, --=====================_922443543==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Heirloom Gardening Page.url" [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.webslnger.com/wethepeople/ --=====================_922443543==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Grace & Bob Calaveras County, CA --=====================_922443543==_-- From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Thu Mar 25 23:49:25 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id XAA20820 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:49:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:46:48 -0800 From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Urban agriculture, Japanese agriculture, farmland preservation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 73 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:52:22 -0500 From: Steve Groff valerie frances wrote: > "When conditions are ripe for it, these suburban lots could quickly be > developed into mini-farms, either as home-based businesses or as a > source of much good food for the family living there. That sort of > flexibility, coupled with broad-based ownership of prime agricultural > land in the form of suburban lots, may turn out to be a very lucky and > important break at a moment when we need one badly." Anyone interested in seeing this type of agriculture first hand should go to Japan. I was there a year ago and was amazed at the intensity of food producing plots. Not a single square foot is wasted! Even in the downtown areas in of Tokyo there were plots as small as 4x5 ft that had veggies growing in them. There is no grass for yards *anywhere* near the population centers. It is considered a waste of resourses not to grow food in open spaces. Even at major interchanges on the highways they have planted the whole area in vegetables. Steve Groff. Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:55:34 -0800 From: Phil Gillman While it would sure be nice to have many more of our urban and suburban lawns converted into gardens, the fact remains that suburban and urban contruction frequently involves vast disruption of soil ecology, and even more often, the complete removal of native topsoil to be replaces by chem fertilizer and imported sod. If folks want to farm and urban 1/2 acre plots are too small for them, perhaps they should buy multiple lots in suburban area, or even better, farm land prior to subdivision. As can be seen by the fact that Japan and Korea are net importers of food, and soon china may be as well, the concept of urban/suburban ag is NOT a solution, only one of many parts- other crucial parts include the conservation of farmland in immediate proximity to urban area, and the continued profitability of that land, which is, i believe, the primary reason we are reading this list. phil gillman --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Fri Mar 26 01:54:42 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id BAA23185 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 01:54:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:48:18 +1100 (EST) From: Louise Crabtree To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] urban permaculture in Australia Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 74 Dear all Hello! My name's Louise and I'm a relative newcomer to the list, as well as to permaculture, although I've been in a slowly decreasing orbit around it for a few years. I'm living in inner Sydney with my partner, where we're slowly converting the kikuyu monster that was in the yard into some form of permaculture. At the moment, we're doing this by ourselves, which we're not very happy with, so part of the reason I'm posting this is to get in touch with fellow permaculture people and to invite anyone in the Sydney area to get in touch - we like excuses to give people some hospitality and we're very keen to get some advice/friends/reprimands(?). As well as the backyard extravaganza, I am about to embark on an Honours thesis regarding how we go about converting idle urban land (especially land in the hands of institutions such as the SRA/Water Board) into growing spaces, namely community permaculture gardens. I'm interested in things like the gardens South Sydney Council are involved in, as well as anything resembling allotment systems - are there any in Australia??? What I'm after is stories, contacts, ideas, inspiration, info, interested people, whatever, concerning any such projects in urban areas of Australia. So hopefully, I will hear something back and find out who some of you lovelies are. Please, inundate me! Looking forward to some good conversations. Louise. --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Fri Mar 26 04:28:53 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id EAA24548 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 04:28:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [129.94.14.38] From: "Paul Osmond" To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: urban permaculture in Australia Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 01:22:26 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 75 Louise: There is an small but active and enthusiastic group of community gardeners/permaculturists associated with the University of New South Wales (Randwick), where I work. Some are students or ex-students, some work there and others just live nearby (including some fantastic older locals with a wealth of gardening experience). We are looking to establish an "EcoLiving" project involving the existing permaculture gardens and a residential property which backs on to the gardens, both of which are owned by the University. The gardens are open to all and there are almost always people around there on the weekends - drop by and you will be made welcome! Address is rear of No 14 Arthur St, Randwick (sign at the gate will point you in the right direction). Cheers, Paul Osmond >From: Louise Crabtree >Reply-To: "permaculture" >To: "permaculture" >Subject: [permaculture] urban permaculture in Australia >Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:48:18 +1100 (EST) > >Dear all > >Hello! My name's Louise and I'm a relative newcomer to the list, as well >as to permaculture, although I've been in a slowly decreasing orbit around >it for a few years. I'm living in inner Sydney with my partner, where >we're slowly converting the kikuyu monster that was in the yard into some >form of permaculture. At the moment, we're doing this by ourselves, >which we're not very happy with, so part of the reason I'm posting this is >to get in touch with fellow permaculture people and to invite anyone in >the Sydney area to get in touch - we like excuses to give people some >hospitality and we're very keen to get some advice/friends/reprimands(?). > >As well as the backyard extravaganza, I am about to embark on an Honours >thesis regarding how we go about converting idle urban land >(especially land in the hands of institutions such as the SRA/Water >Board) into growing spaces, namely community permaculture gardens. >I'm interested in things like the gardens South Sydney Council are >involved in, as well as anything resembling allotment systems - are there >any in Australia??? What I'm after is stories, contacts, ideas, inspiration, info, >interested people, whatever, concerning any such projects in urban areas >of Australia. > >So hopefully, I will hear something back and find out who some of you >lovelies are. Please, inundate me! > >Looking forward to some good conversations. > >Louise. > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: p_osmond@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Fri Mar 26 09:19:10 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA02439 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:19:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA17402; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:09:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17051; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:06:05 -0500 (EST) From: Permacltur@aol.com Received: from Permacltur@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id mNVBa24800; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:07:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:07:34 EST To: dtv@mwt.net, owner-permaculture@envirolink.org, permaculture@envirolink.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: native plants/seeds Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Reply-To: Permacltur@aol.com Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 76 In a message dated 3/25/99 10:29:02 PM, dtv@mwt.net wrote: <> JL Hudson imports seed from all over the world and therefore cannot possibly grow most of what they sell. I've never read anywhere in their catalog any claim to have grown any of their seed, though it is a hard catalog to read cover to cover. They do support native gardeners with their Zapotec garden collection, and probably other groups in a much less systematic way. For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since 1982), Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses, consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and annual correspondence courses via email. Copyright, 1998, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 52, Sparr FL 32192 USA Internships. YankeePerm@aol.com We don't have time to rush. A list by topic of all Yankee Permaculture titles may be found at http://csf.colorado.edu/perma/ypc_catalog.html Elfin Permaculture programs are listed at the Eastern Permaculture Teachers assn home page: http://home.ptd.net/~artrod/epta/eptahmp.html From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Fri Mar 26 11:14:20 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id LAA05392 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:14:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:07:59 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: native plants/seeds (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 77 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net The heirloom seed website is very comprehensive with lots of references organized expertly. You'll want to bookmark it or add the link to your homepage. Topics include: Why Heirloom Gardening? Seed Companies Varieties Books Links LL ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:19:03 -0800 From: Grace Carter To: permaculture@envirolink.org Subject: Re: native plants/seeds This heirloom gardening site has open-pollinated and heirloom varieties of garden plants listed, with hyperlinks to the companies selling each of the varieties. HTH, http://www.webslnger.com/wethepeople/ The Heirloom Gardening Page --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Fri Mar 26 11:15:55 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05436 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:15:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA02404; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:05:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from hdo1.hdo.net (hdo1.hdo.net [209.76.66.193]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02009 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:02:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.76.66.173] (pm-2-16.hdo.net [209.76.66.173]) by hdo1.hdo.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA14471 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:05:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199903261605.IAA14471@hdo1.hdo.net> Subject: J. L. Hudson Date: Fri, 26 Mar 99 08:05:02 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: samm To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: samm@hdo.net Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 78 It's been sort of amusing to see J. L. Hudson discussed in terms of native plants. Anyone who's read the opinion pieces in his catalog will understand more about where he's coming from. I love his catalog, and have placed many orders from it over the years, but realize that J. L. Hudson is vehemently opposed to the native plant movement. The philosophy is that humankind is just one more "vector" for spreading seeds of all kinds around the world. The catalog I have (I haven't one for 1999 yet) shows a drawing of a blue jay with a seed in its mouth and behind it in the sky a passenger jet--the drawing is called "Vectors," I believe. He sees the native plant movement as fascistic, that human beings are almost obligated on behalf of evolution to spread every kind of seed from every continent anywhere it will thrive and let the plants fight it out among themselves. Kind of a bio-libertarianism. The catalog is an invaluable source of nonhybridized seed from a mind-boggling variety of wild plants from all over the world, and an invaluable resource, and the political viewpoints scattered throughout make interesting reading. And, for people who love plants, it's a lot of fun. sam From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Fri Mar 26 11:38:40 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id LAA06138 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:38:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:32:18 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "permaculture" cc: permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu, permaculture@envirolink.org Subject: [permaculture] Re: J. L. Hudson In-Reply-To: <199903261605.IAA14471@hdo1.hdo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 79 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, samm wrote: > It's been sort of amusing to see J. L. Hudson discussed in terms of > > The catalog is an invaluable source of nonhybridized seed from a > mind-boggling variety of wild plants from all over the world, and an Can you post contact information for JL Hudson? BTW, I have started a seed-saving discussion forum at MetaLab (also soil quality, permaculture, organic gardening and many more) that some of you might want to subscribe to. Its open to anyone, easy to use & has robust array of features, archives all posts to the list for public viewing, etc. Here's a little info for those interested: general information is available at: http://metalab.unc.edu/london/forumdoc.txt (access, subscription,subscription info + list of forums available) subscribe/unsubscribe via email: send email to lyris@franklin.oit.unc.edu - in text of message include the following words: subscribe (or unsubscribe) Ex.: subscribe seed-saving or: subscribe permaculture (posting to the list subscribers) send email to: @franklin.oit.unc.edu Ex.: permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu Access on the Web: ------------------ go to this URL: http://franklin.oit.unc.edu go to "Official SunSITE Contributor Lists" then go to: "Topics Related to Natural Agriculture" then go to the forum of your choice --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Sat Mar 27 21:40:17 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id VAA03946 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:40:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:33:47 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "permaculture" cc: dgunders@hotmail.com Subject: [permaculture] helping out in Bolivia or Peru (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 80 Can anyone help Dana out with PC in Bolivia? Reply to: dgunders@hotmail.com - http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:31:13 PST From: Dana Gunders To: london@metalab.unc.edu Subject: helping out in Bolivia or Peru Hi there! I'm a girl who is travelling aroiund in Bolivia right now and would love to check out some permaculture sights either here or in Peru. I'm hoping to stay and help out for a few months. Could you direct me to any projects? Muchas gracias! Dana Gunders Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Sun Mar 28 21:35:47 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id VAA20531 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 21:35:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:28:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: X-Sender: swrpi@pop2.igc.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "permaculture" From: Scott Pittman Subject: [permaculture] Re: helping out in Bolivia or Peru (fwd) Cc: dgunders@hotmail.com List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 81 At 09:33 PM 3/27/99 -0500, Larry London wrote: > >Can anyone help Dana out with PC in Bolivia? >Reply to: dgunders@hotmail.com >- >http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden >london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:31:13 PST >From: Dana Gunders >To: london@metalab.unc.edu >Subject: helping out in Bolivia or Peru > >Hi there! >I'm a girl who is travelling aroiund in Bolivia right now and would love >to check out some permaculture sights either here or in Peru. I'm >hoping to stay and help out for a few months. Could you direct me to >any projects? > >Muchas gracias! >Dana Gunders Hi Dana, Arina is here, we met few month ago in Pojoaque, on our pc site. I would recommend you to contact Permacultura America Latina' president Ali Sharif at , , and his friend FERNANDO SOARES" . (I would suggest to write to all of them at once) Ali has been working in South America for over 5 years, and has amazing projects in Peru, Equador, and Brazil. Ali can also advise you on aprenticeship too. Let me know how it will go. Good luck, Arina Scott Pittman Permaculture Institute, USA PO Box 3702, Pojoaque, NM 87501 US phone 505.455.0270 ********* Ingenio Patet Campus --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Sun Mar 28 21:36:02 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id VAA20537 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 21:36:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:28:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: X-Sender: swrpi@pop2.igc.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "permaculture" From: Scott Pittman Subject: [permaculture] Re: Classes List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 82 At 04:35 PM 3/24/99 -0600, Rick and Rose wrote: >Does anyone know of any classes coming up in my area? I am interested in >Natural Farming and Permaculture. I have some books and have been reading, >but would like a little hands on, and seeing how things are done. I know >there are internet courses and would like to take one some time but for now >am looking for something in this area. >Thanks, Rick > >I live in Mid Missouri. Hello there, In case if you do not find any classes in your area, we are having a permaculture design certification course in New Mexico, with an introduction to biodynamics during the class. A lot of hands on expirience, too (at least 8 hr) ++++++++++++++++ The Permaculture Institute,USA is proud to announce its first residential intensive two week design certification course. It will be offered on the property of an intentional community Casa Las Barrancas in Pojoaque, which is being developed as a permaculture demonstration site. Course topics include but are not limited to: * Permaculture Philosophy, Ethics, and Principles * Methodology of Design - observation, deduction, random assembly, zoning, etc * Reading the Landscape, Site Analysis, Mapping * Principles of Natural Systems, * Patterns in Nature, Society, Culture - understanding and application * Water in Landscape * Soil Building, Erosion Control, Earthworks * Forest, Trees and Their Energy Transactions * Building Design, Appropriate Technologies * Designing the Productive Home System * Useful Plants and Animals, Aquaculture * Invisible Structures, Village Design, Community Economics * Local Trading Systems, Urban Permaculture, Permaculture Credit Union This course will have strong emphasis on hands-on exercises after classes on the community wetlands, field, orchards, and gardens. The exercises will include * water catchment and channeling, * planning and planting a windbreak, * plant identification, * laying out a key-hole/ mandala garden, * building a herb spiral * and possibly a straw-bale wall raising. The community land has many design challenges for the class to examine - strong seasonal winds, highly variable microclimates, and erosion potential. This course aims to provide students with a strong foundation to create their own sustainable living situation in this unstable world. ******************** Course facilitators : Scott Pittman, founder of the Permaculture Institute, who has 13 years of experience of teaching, designing and living permaculture on 4 continents with indigenous people, an expert on the field of large scale land bio-remediation, holistic property design, alternative building, earthworks and invisible structures. For last 5 years Scott has been teaching with the originator of the permaculture Dr.Bill Mollison. Joel Glansberg, well known teacher and designer, wizard of food-forests and guilds design, founder of the Flowering Tree Permaculture Institute. Number of participants will be limited, in order to provide the students with opportunity for personal interaction with the teachers. Lodging: limited space in the community guesthouse, please register early, $130 for 13 nights in double occupancy rooms. Camping $30, please bring your own tent. Offsite accommodation within walking distance from the site can be arranged, call in advance. Tuition: $950 for two week course with one day off. 72 hours of formal instruction. Course outline, handouts, three organic meals a day are included. Additional free evening presentations on biodynamic, herbal medicine, plant identification and more. ******************************************************************************* Discount $50 if paid in full on or before 3/31 To hold your place a deposit of $250 is due 3/15 Make checks payable to the Permaculture Institute, PO Box 3702 Pojoaque NM 87501 ******************************************************************************* Other details call 505-455-0270, fax 505-455-0514 or email us pci@permaculture-inst.org Scott Pittman Permaculture Institute, USA PO Box 3702, Pojoaque, NM 87501 US phone 505.455.0270 ********* Ingenio Patet Campus --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Sun Mar 28 22:33:00 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id WAA21209 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:33:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Reply-To: "permaculture" From: "Lee Flier" To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: Classes Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:22:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 83 Scott Pittman wrote: >Hello there, > >In case if you do not find any classes in your area, we are having a >permaculture design certification course in New Mexico, with an introduction >to biodynamics during the class. A lot of hands on expirience, too (at least >8 hr) Yeah, and I'm sure it will be worth a trip out of your way. Scott is one heck of a teacher. --Lee, very happy alumnus of Scott and Bill Mollison's course *********************************** Lee A. Flier lflier@mindspring.com Atlanta and Ellijay, Georgia http://lflier.home.mindspring.com --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From owner-permaculture@envirolink.org Sun Mar 28 23:48:34 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA22681 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:48:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA10596; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:30:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA10259 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:26:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from txinfinet.com ([216.171.28.123] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.6) with SMTP id S.0000108867 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:25:44 +0000 Date: Sun, 28 Mar 99 22:45:11 CDT From: billc@txinfinet.com (Bill Christensen) Organization: Texas InfiNet Subject: Re: Apprenticeship work/trade agreement To: permaculture@envirolink.org Message-ID: <6392111.ensmtp@txinfinet.com> Priority: normal X-Mailer: ExpressNet/SMTP v1.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: billc@txinfinet.com Sender: owner-permaculture@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 84 noshwag@hotmail.com writes: Hi my name is Brad Millis and I have come to California from Indiana to go to Humboldt University. It is going to take a year for me to establish residency (out of state tuition is outrageuos) and in the mean time I want to study permaculture and anything related to sustainable living. I dont have the money to take courses of any kind right now and I would rather get experiance while learning anyway. I have three kinds of references; people that will tell that I am a very good worker, people that will tell you how inspired/determined to learn sustainable living practices and then the people that fall into both of those catergories. This is a draft letter that Im sending to everybody I can find in California so if you have any questions about myself, or any other information you need please ask away. Im looking for something relatively long term, 6 months to a year. Thank you for your time and thank you for what you do. Sincerely, Brad Hi Brad, If you're not already on it (I think I may have seen your subscription go through recently, but I may be wrong), you might also be interested in posting your notice to the Willing Workers in Alternative Technology list, wwat@lists.greenbuilder.com. The purpose of the list is to connect workers/apprentices/interns with folks who can put them to work and teach them a thing or two. The list is simply a networking tool -the details of the arrangement are worked out between the parties involved (food, lodging, stipend/wage, etc). Best of luck! BC -- Bill Christensen billc@greenbuilder.com Sustainable Building Sourcebook at http://www.greenbuilder.com/sourcebook/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sustainable Sources: Internet Services with an Environmental Perspective Telnet://fc.greenbuilder.com:3000 WWW http://www.greenbuilder.com From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Mon Mar 29 21:09:47 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id VAA15930 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:09:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:02:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: X-Sender: swrpi@pop2.igc.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "permaculture" From: Scott Pittman Subject: [permaculture] Re: Classes List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 85 Oi, forgot the dates...... The course is in May, 1-14, 20 miles from Santa Fe, NM. >++++++++++++++++ >The Permaculture Institute,USA is proud to announce its first residential >intensive two week design certification course. It will be offered on the >property of an intentional community Casa Las Barrancas in Pojoaque, which >is being developed as a permaculture demonstration site. > > Course topics include but are not limited to: > >* Permaculture Philosophy, Ethics, and Principles >* Methodology of Design - observation, deduction, random assembly, zoning, etc >* Reading the Landscape, Site Analysis, Mapping >* Principles of Natural Systems, >* Patterns in Nature, Society, Culture - understanding and application >* Water in Landscape >* Soil Building, Erosion Control, Earthworks >* Forest, Trees and Their Energy Transactions >* Building Design, Appropriate Technologies >* Designing the Productive Home System >* Useful Plants and Animals, Aquaculture >* Invisible Structures, Village Design, Community Economics >* Local Trading Systems, Urban Permaculture, Permaculture Credit Union > >This course will have strong emphasis on hands-on exercises after classes >on the community wetlands, field, orchards, and gardens. The exercises will >include > > * water catchment and channeling, > * planning and planting a windbreak, > * plant identification, > * laying out a key-hole/ mandala garden, > * building a herb spiral > * and possibly a straw-bale wall raising. > >The community land has many design challenges for the class to examine - >strong seasonal winds, highly variable microclimates, and erosion potential. >This course aims to provide students with a strong foundation to create >their own sustainable living situation in this unstable world. >******************** >Course facilitators : > Scott Pittman, founder of the Permaculture Institute, who has 13 >years of experience of teaching, designing and living permaculture on 4 >continents with indigenous people, an expert on the field of large scale >land bio-remediation, holistic property design, alternative building, >earthworks and invisible structures. For last 5 years Scott has been teaching with the originator of the permaculture Dr.Bill Mollison. > Joel Glansberg, well known teacher and designer, wizard of >food-forests and guilds design, founder of the Flowering Tree Permaculture >Institute. > >Number of participants will be limited, in order to provide the students >with opportunity for personal interaction with the teachers. > >Lodging: limited space in the community guesthouse, please register early, >$130 for 13 nights in double occupancy rooms. Camping $30, please bring your >own tent. Offsite accommodation within walking distance from the site can be >arranged, call in advance. >Tuition: $950 for two week course with one day off. 72 hours of formal >instruction. Course outline, handouts, three organic meals a day are >included. Additional free evening presentations on biodynamic, herbal >medicine, plant identification and more. > >******************************************************************************* > Discount $50 if paid in full on or before 3/31 > To hold your place a deposit of $250 is due 3/15 > Make checks payable to the Permaculture Institute, > PO Box 3702 Pojoaque NM 87501 >******************************************************************************* >Other details call 505-455-0270, fax 505-455-0514 or email us >pci@permaculture-inst.org > > > > Scott Pittman Permaculture Institute, USA PO Box 3702, Pojoaque, NM 87501 US phone 505.455.0270 ********* Ingenio Patet Campus --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Mon Mar 29 22:13:32 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id WAA17365 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:13:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:59:29 -0500 From: Keith Johnson Organization: The Permaculture Activist/Culture's Edge/Patterns for Abundance: http://metalab.unc.edu/pc-activist MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: helping out in Bolivia or Peru (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 86 Dana, Here's some South and Central America Permaculture contacts (Sorry, no links in Peru that I'm aware of) from the Permaculture Activist's webpage, Global Directory (see URL at bottom of letter): Pc Allyu Verde Klaus Lotz Lot 2, Casilla, Cochabamba, 5279, Bolivia Ph: int+ (591) 0411 2605 Fadenza Lua (Moon Farm) S.Q.S. 108, Bloco H, Apto. 305, Brasilia, D.F. 70347 -080, Brasil Ph/fax: int + 55 61 244 2218 Instituto Gaucho de Permacultura Sitio Pe na Terra, Lomba Grande, Novo Hamburgo, Pe RS, 93 490 000, Brazil Ph/Fax: int+ (55) 51 596 11 14 Pc Institute of Brasilia Maria Indindoli, Fazenda Lua (Moon Farm) S.Q.S. 108, Bloco H, Apto. 305, Brasilia, D.F. 70347 - 080, Brazil Ph/Fax: int + (55) 61 244 2218 Instituto de Permacultura da Bahia Marsha Hanzi Condominio Aguas Finas QE L4, Lauro de Freitas, Bahia, CEP 42700-000, Brazil Ph: int+ (55) 713 78 2676 Fax: int+ (55) 713 78 1520 Email: permaba@provider.com.br Permacultura America Latina Amad Ali Sharif Casilla 17-07-9833, Quito, Ecuador Ph: int+ (593) 256 8661 Fundacion Golondrinas (Cerro Golondrinas Cloudforest Conservation Project) Centro Productivo y Educativo Agroforestal in Guallupe / La Carolina, Western Slopes of the Andes Piet Sabbe or Eliza Manteca Onate, Calle Isabel La Catolica 1559, Quito, Ecuador. Ph: int+ (590) 2 22 6602 Fax: int + (593) 2 22 2390 Central America Fundacion Augusto C Sandino (FACS) Apdo. 2458, Managua 5, Nicaragua Ph: int+ (505) 2 74773 & 505 2 75706 Fax: int+(505) 2 675670 facs@nicarao.apc.org CESTA Carlos Canos & Silva Flores Apdo 3065,Calle PTE 316, San Salvador, El Salvador Ph: int+ (503) 225 6746 Fax: int+ (503) 226 6903 Permacultura El Salvador Juan Nelson Rojas Apdo Postal 68, Centro di Gobierno, San Salvador, El Salvador Ph/Fax: int+ (503) 260 888 cebes@nicarao.apc.org Larry London wrote: > Can anyone help Dana out with PC in Bolivia? > Reply to: dgunders@hotmail.com > - > http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden > london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:31:13 PST > From: Dana Gunders > To: london@metalab.unc.edu > Subject: helping out in Bolivia or Peru > > Hi there! > I'm a girl who is travelling aroiund in Bolivia right now and would love > to check out some permaculture sights either here or in Peru. I'm > hoping to stay and help out for a few months. Could you direct me to > any projects? > > Muchas gracias! > Dana Gunders > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: keithdj@mindspring.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Tue Mar 30 04:25:05 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id EAA21862 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 04:25:05 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: "permaculture" From: "Guy Clark" To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Fw: Fwd: traitor technology Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:14:48 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 87 Hello- Just when you thought Frankenfood could not possibly get any worse. These companies must be destroyed. Namaste', Guy Clark "Live like you are going to die tomorrow, but farm like you will live forever!" ---------- From: annie oakley To: ban@tao.ca Subject: BAN: Fwd: traitor technology Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 11:33 PM Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI) News Release 29 March 1999 http://www.rafi.org ** TRAITOR TECHNOLOGY: "Damaged Goods" from the Gene Giants ** --------------------------------------------------------- New report from RAFI details over 2 dozen "Terminator II" patents that link suicide seeds to proprietary chemicals, genetically-weakened plants, and the patented power to make genetically-inviable plants rise from the dead. --------------------------------------------------------- Beyond the prognostications of even its most pessimistic critics, Terminator science is snowballing into the corporate profit centre of the next decade and beyond. And, if the major seed and agrochemical multinationals have their way, Terminator and Traitor (negative trait) technologies will come on the heels of the new millennium to a farm near you. RAFI's Executive Director Pat Mooney declares, "With this report and our previous work on the Terminator, RAFI is sounding the alarm that without government action, these technologies will be commercialized within a few years with potentially disastrous consequences." Says RAFI Programme Officer Edward Hammond, "Since we discovered the original Terminator patent a year ago, even at our most pessimistic we never forecast negative trait genetic engineering to explode as quickly as it has." Most observers thought there would be a delay of two or three years before second and third generation Terminator refinements were patented; but instead says Hammond, "a survey of patent offices reveals that the cat is completely out of the bag. In fact, the original Terminator may be a dead letter because enhanced Terminator seeds are already in the laboratory." RAFI reports that every Gene Giant multinational has patented, or admits it is working on genetically-sterilized or chemically-dependent seeds. RAFI's report provides details and analysis on over two dozen such patents recently obtained by 12 institutions. The patents seek to exploit - or could exploit - new genetic engineering techniques that use inducible promoters to disable critical plant functions governing reproduction, disease resistance, and seed viability. If commercialization of such seeds proceeds, farmers worldwide will be tangled in an expensive web of chemicals, intellectual property, and disabled germplasm that leads to bioserfdom. The technology spells disaster for farmers and global food security because over three quarters of the world's farmers - mainly poor farmers - depend on farm saved seed. The complete removal of farmers from the age-old process of plant breeding through sterilized seed could also signify a disastrous narrowing of the genepool on which everyone depends for food security. SCARY SCOPE: According to RAFI's Research Director Hope Shand, "The patents describe the use of external chemicals to turn on and off genetic traits in plants and go well beyond DeltaPine's original 'Terminator' patent. They are techniques to control a wide variety of 'input' and 'output' (production and processing) traits by spraying with proprietary herbicides or fertilizers. Others take us beyond crop plants to the use of Terminator-style tactics on insects and even possibly mammals." KILLER GENES, JUNKIE SEEDS, AND MODERN-DAY "MIRACLES": Some patents aim to switch the plant's germination on or off. AstraZeneca's Verminator patents use what it calls 'killer genes' for this purpose. Yet AstraZeneca has been telling governments, scientists, and the press that despite their continuing pursuit of its patents around the world, they won't stop farmers from saving seed. RAFI's Pat Mooney says, "Something didn't add up, so we set out to investigate." Newly discovered patent claims explain the confusing AstraZeneca position. The new patents refine AstraZeneca's "Verminator" technology that links plant growth and germination to repeated application of proprietary chemicals. Without specific patented chemicals, the plant doesn't grow. "Essentially," says RAFI's Edward Hammond, "they're talking about the manufacture of junkie plants that are physically dependent on a patented chemical cocktail." AstraZeneca says it will patent the technology in 77 countries. See AstraZeneca's Verminator II patent: http://wo.dips.org/search97cgi/s97is.dll?Action=View&ViewTemplate=ep/en/view er.h ts&SearchType=4&VdkVgwKey=9735983 Says RAFI's Mooney, "So, you see AstraZeneca and the other Gene Giants don't want farmers to buy new seed every year so much as to force them to repurchase their old seed." Monsanto is already pioneering such 'pay by the generation' techniques through legal means - the infamous grower agreements - in the US and Canada; but research is steering toward biological means of achieving the same sad end. Mooney says "It will be vastly more profitable for multinationals to sell seeds programmed to commit suicide at harvest so that farmers must pay the company to obtain the chemicals to have them re-activated for the next planting - either through a seed conditioning process or through the purchase of a specialized chemicals that bring saved seed back to life, Lazarus-style." "In effect, this shifts all the seed costs to farmers, and the companies won't have to multiply, ship, and warehouse massive seed stocks," Hammond adds, "As the seed oligopoly strengthens, companies will have less and less incentive to invest in plant breeding research, after all they'll already have the farmers in a position of utter dependency." Pat Mooney agrees, "With these 'Lazarus-link seeds' the advertising investment will continue but the research investment will wither away." GENETIC MUTILATION: An especially disturbing feature of some of the new patents profiled in RAFI's report is the deliberate disabling of natural plant functions that help to fight disease. Swiss biotech giant Novartis is most advanced in this aspect of Traitor technology. Novartis blandly refers to it as "inactivation of endogenous regulation" so that "genes which are natively regulated can be regulated exclusively by the application to the plant of a chemical regulator." Among the genes which Novartis can control in this manner are patented SAR (systemic acquired resistance) genes which are critical to plant's ability to fight off infections from many viruses and bacteria. Thus, Novartis has patented techniques to create plants with natural healthy functions turned off. "The only way to turn them back on and fix these 'damaged goods' " says RAFI's Edward Hammond, "is, well, you guessed it, the application of a propietary chemical." See the Novartis antisense regulation of SAR systems patent: http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1& u=/n etahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='5,650,505'.WKU.&OS=PN/5,650,505&RS=PN/5 ,650 ,505 TIGHT-LIPPED MONSANTO: Caught like a deer in the headlights during recent battles over genetically-modified plants - especially in Europe - Monsanto has sought to deflect questions and criticism about Terminator technology by saying that the Terminator belongs to its soon-to-be subsidiary Delta and Pine Land Company. As such, the oft-repeated PR position goes, Monsanto doesn't yet have access to the Terminator and can't inform concerned governments and people about plans for Terminator seed. "It's been their mantra across the world." says RAFI's Mooney, "We've heard the same confusing statements from Monsanto representatives in New Zealand, India, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Brazil, the EU, and the US." Even last week, at a Harvard University presentation, Monsanto's representative similarly shrugged off the question. "In fact," says RAFI's Mooney, "it's a deliberate ploy - or, at best, incomplete information - that obfuscates facts about the company's own research agenda. Monsanto already has its own in-house, patented Terminator technology, which it says it will patent in a whopping 89 countries. Obviously, the company is not being forthright. If Monsanto doesn't start coming clean, it risks further damage to its already tarnished image." See Monsanto's Terminator II patent: http://wo.dips.org/search97cgi/s97is.dll?Action=View&ViewTemplate=ep/en/view er.h ts&SearchType=4&VdkVgwKey=9744465 WILL TERMINATOR WORK? RAFI notes that some plant scientists are skeptical that Traitor Technology will work successfully in the field. Monsanto, one of the original Traitor Tech proponents, is encouraging this view. There is no doubt that Traitor Tech will be continually refined as it moves toward the market; but terminator plants are already in the greenhouse and profit estimates are being calculated. "It's only a matter of time. Every major pesticide-producing Gene Giant is hard at work perfecting the technology." Shand adds, "Companies don't patent for the fun of the paperwork and paying lawyer's fees. Those who think corporations will drop the Terminator - or think it won't make it to market - are living in Fantasyland. There's too much money to be made. Unless it is banned by governments, Terminator is going to happen, and probably sooner rather than later." WILL FARMERS BUY IT? Delta & Pine Land and Monsanto insist that no one will force farmers to buy Terminator seed. The real question is, will farmers have a choice? The commercial seed industry is imploding, and a handful of Gene Giants already control a rapidly expanding share of major seed markets. After DuPont announced earlier this month that it would buy Pioneer Hi-Bred, the world's largest seed company, the Wall Street Journal concluded that the deal "effectively divides" most of the US seed industry between DuPont and Monsanto. With the disappearance of public sector plant breeders, farmers are becoming increasingly vulnerable and have fewer choices in the marketplace. TERMINATING THE TERMINATOR: RAFI and its partners around the world are contacting governments asking them to declare all of the Terminator-style patent claims as contrary to ordre public. In January, Global Response (a US based non-profit organization) encouraged its 4,000 members in forty countries to write to the Director-General of FAO asking him to oppose the Terminator as a matter of world food security. FAO has replied that governments may take up the issue in Rome April 19 to 23 during the meeting of the FAO Commission on Genetic Resources for Food and Agriculture. RAFI will be at that meeting and will make a presentation to governments. Further, concerned individuals from 71 countries have sent almost 7,000 letters to US Agriculture Secretary Glickman asking him to ban the Terminator. Although global opposition is mounting, RAFI worries that the UN's Biodiversity Convention may go "soft" on the environmental and social implications of the technology. When the Convention meets in Montreal in June, it is to receive a scientific study on Terminator. "We will read and respond to that study very quickly," Pat Mooney advises. ------ For further information: Website: http://www.rafi.org Pat Roy Mooney, Executive Director, RAFI 110 Osborne Street South, Suite 202 Winnipeg, MB, R3L 1Y5 CANADA Tel: +1 204 453-5259 Fax: +1 204 925-8134 E-mail: rafi@rafi.org Hope Shand, Research Director, RAFI Tel: +1 717 337-6482 Fax: +1 717 337-6499 E-mail: hope@rafi.org Edward Hammond, Programme Officer, RAFI Tel: +1 206 323-7378 Fax: +1 206 323-6052 E-mail: hammond@rafi.org --------- End Forwarded Message --------- *********************************** chickclick.com http://www.chickclick.com girl sites that don't fake it. http://www.chickmail.com sign up for your free email. *********************************** --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Tue Mar 30 08:34:56 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id IAA25606 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:34:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 8:26:27 Subject: [permaculture] Tips on Agricultural Engineering Job Search? To: "permaculture" From: "Peter Bosch" List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Message-Id: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 88 Folks; My brother-in-law, an Agricultural Engineer with soil science, landscape and composting experience, plus five years as a lead mushroom grower is looking for suggestions and contacts to permaculturally-inclined companies for a full time position. He is willing to relocate - within the US. First choice area would probably be the upper midwest, followed closely by central eastern seaboard. And while permaculturally-inclined companies are his first choice, I think he realizes that this is a major constriction on his job search - he's also willing to look at agricultural companies with a reasonable social conscience. Also, any suggestions as to how to go about researching this topic/market area would be greatly appreciated. Are there recruiting firms that deal explicitly with this sort of thing, or with agriculture in general? If you have any suggestions, please reply to pbosch@execpc.com, or directly to him at dbakers@brandywine.net. Thanks Peter Bosch --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Tue Mar 30 15:51:07 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id PAA07713 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:51:07 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: "permaculture" From: "Guy Clark" To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] A Revolution in Agriculture Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 02:40:55 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Message-ID: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mail-smtp.socket.net id OAA03662 List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id PAA07713 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 89 Hey all- Here is an interesting article in the Columbia Tribune which was delivered at a local conference. We need only think of Rome, Greece, Egypt, etc. and how their cultures/empires collapsed upon the demise of their agriculture system due to poor stewardship of the land/outgrowth of its carrying capacity. Namaste', Guy Clark Tribune Online News Story Story ran on March 30, 1999 A revolution, row by row By JOHN IKERD Sustainability was once referred to as "a quiet revolution sweeping across American agriculture." The revolution continues, but the time for quietness has passed. The current crisis in American agriculture, like the revolution, has been a quiet one. Thousands of farm families are being forced off the land, an inevitable consequence, we are told, of technological progress. Farmers are offered the options of getting bigger, giving in to corporate control or getting out. The crisis is a chronic symptom of the type of agriculture we have been promoting in this country for the past 50 years, magnified by the brazen attempts of giant corporations to wrest control from family farms and complete the industrialization of agriculture. But industrialization is neither inevitable nor progressive. There’s a better way to farm, a better way to produce food and fiber and a better way to live. We are entering a new era in American agriculture — an era in which we learn to support people through agriculture rather than sacrifice their well being to support the industry of agriculture. It’s time to proclaim a new agricultural revolution. Sustainable agriculture and industrial agriculture are two fundamentally different philosophies—diametrically and irreconcilably opposed. There is no common ground on which to compromise. Our task is made more difficult by institutions that see industrialization as the only viable option for the future. The government subsidizes our industrial competitors with everything from tax concessions to direct farm program payments. We are excluded from traditional markets and prevented from marketing direct to customers by a maze of complex government regulations. We are denied equal access to the research and educational resources of public institutions. Others believe agriculture is mostly about products and profits — not people. To them, if food is cheaper or more convenient, it doesn’t really matter who produces it or how it is produced. But people do matter. About a year ago, when I was recovering from open-heart surgery, I read a book: "The Life and Major Works of Thomas Paine." Paine, a writer during the American Revolution, was credited with articulating the ideas of the Revolution in terms that could be understood by the "common man." He signed his early writings with the pen name "Common Sense." Today, Paine’s work provides valuable insights into how to keep a revolution from failing — at least when the cause makes common sense. Sustainable agriculture, like freedom and democracy, is a cause that makes common sense. Paine gave no quarter to the enemies of freedom and democracy. Nothing in his writings could be mistaken for impartial objectivity. His papers always extolled the great benefits that would be realized by the colonies once they had shed the yoke of British rule. And he never doubted that the American colonists eventually would win their war for independence. We must adopt Thomas Paine’s approach to revolutionize American agriculture — not gradual, incremental changes in farming practices but a fundamentally different philosophy of farming. The divergence between industrial agriculture and sustainable agriculture is as great as that between monarchy and democracy. This is a battle for the hearts and minds of the American people. They need to know the truth about what is happening to American agriculture and why. We need to tell them about our new kind of agriculture that will sustain people, not just the industry of agriculture. And we need to give them common-sense reasons why the old system cannot be sustained and why sustainable agriculture is not a luxury but an absolute necessity. The current economic system rewards the exploitation of natural resources and people, and the visible, tangible epitome of that system is the large, publicly owned corporation. The corporation is the ultimate "economic man" — motivated always and only by its own short-term self-interest, driven solely by an insatiable need for profit and growth. This enemy should be given no quarter. An industrial agriculture might be able to meet our food and fiber needs of today and maybe for another 50 years, but it is degrading and destroying the very resources — soil, water and energy — upon which it depends. An industrial agriculture is said to be efficient, but not when one counts the enormous costs it imposes on the environment and on people in rural communities. Environmentally sound and socially responsible farming operations already exist — many of them as economically efficient as their industrial counterparts. We need to tell the general public that sustainability is not only possible but also logical and, ultimately, essential. The industrial agricultural system might have been logical in the past, but it no longer makes sense. America’s version of industrial agriculture is very similar to the agriculture that failed miserably in the old Soviet Union — bringing down the country in the process. Some claim that our system relies on free markets. But we are turning agriculture over to multinational corporations that control everything from genetic seed stocks to supermarket shelves, eliminating all the free markets in between. Instead of free markets, we have something more like central planning — little different in principle from the old Soviet industrial agriculture. And the outcome will be the same: failure. Farmers themselves are the architects of the new sustainable agriculture. They are the explorers, the colonists and the revolutionaries. Like the revolutionaries who created a democracy, they will confront hardship, frustration and failure. Ultimately, they will succeed. Never doubt the cause is just. Industrial corporate agriculture is not good for people and thus is not sustainable. It’s just common sense. Agriculture ultimately must sustain a desirable quality of life for people — on farms, in rural communities and in the cities. It’s just common sense. Human civilization cannot be sustained without a sustainable agriculture. It’s time for a new revolution in American agriculture. It’s just plain common sense. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ John Ikerd is a professor of agricultural economics at MU. This paper was presented in the opening session of the March 24 "Sustaining People Through Agriculture" conference in Columbia. --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Tue Mar 30 17:25:21 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id RAA09586 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:25:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:18:33 -0500 From: gardenbetty@earthlink.net Reply-To: "permaculture" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] OT: Does anyone know of a source of orchard mason bees? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net id OAA26727 List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id RAA09586 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 90 Howdy, I am in zone 6 with a zone 5 microclimate. It's still quite cool here and the fruit trees have not yet opened their buds. I am looking for a regional source of orchard mason bees--osmia lignaria (got the blocks already). It seems the west coast suppliers are out or done for the season. Am I too late? thanks -- dawn aka gardenbetty We will be known by the tracks we leave behind... —Dakota proverb --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 18:44:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11002 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:44:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA14055 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:18:53 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA14032 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:18:48 -0500 (EST) From: gardenbetty@earthlink.net Received: from earthlink.net (ip13.laurel4.md.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.238.13]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26727; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:18:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <37014DB7.2CBDBB54@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:18:33 -0500 Reply-To: gardenbetty@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Organic Gardening List , Sustainable Ag List , permaculture list Subject: OT: Does anyone know of a source of orchard mason bees? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 91 Howdy, I am in zone 6 with a zone 5 microclimate. It's still quite cool here and the fruit trees have not yet opened their buds. I am looking for a regional source of orchard mason bees--osmia lignaria (got the blocks already). It seems the west coast suppliers are out or done for the season. Am I too late? thanks -- dawn aka gardenbetty We will be known by the tracks we leave behind... —Dakota proverb To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 20:04:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA13297 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:04:14 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA25057 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:14:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mercury.cc.oberlin.edu (mercury.cc.oberlin.edu [132.162.1.220]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA24956 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:14:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by oberlin.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #29794) with SMTP id <0F9F00501NCE9R@oberlin.edu> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:14:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:14:38 -0500 (EST) From: Shoshanah Inwood Subject: Watercress Gardening at the most famous farm in America In-reply-to: <37014DB7.2CBDBB54@earthlink.net> To: gardenbetty@earthlink.net Cc: Organic Gardening List , Sustainable Ag List , permaculture list Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 92 Malabar Farms started by Louis Bromfield out in Pleasant Valley, Ohio is starting up an organic garden. There is a pond filled with watercress that Bromfield himself started. The question is can it be eaten and sold. There have been concerns regarding the possibility of parasites in the water from the underground spring run off. Does anyone know the regulations regarding harvesting watercress and selling it to the public, and what to do about possible parasites. If you have any information or know of the correct sources to contact, the information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you shoshanah inwood To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Tue Mar 30 22:45:12 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id WAA15757 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:45:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:39:04 -0800 From: Denis Berger Reply-To: "permaculture" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: A Revolution in Agriculture References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 93 Guy Clark wrote: > Hey all- > Here is an interesting article in the Columbia Tribune which was delivered > at a local conference. > > Tribune Online News Story > Story ran on March 30, 1999 > > A revolution, row by row > > By JOHN IKERD Guy, thanks for forwarding this article. I'd like to know the URL for this little bit of writing. Could you kindly post, or write me directly. I would like to subscribe to the digest version of this list. Could someone inform me how to do so. Mail box is starting to bulge at the seems. Thanks in advance. Respect, Denis --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Tue Mar 30 23:27:54 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id XAA16539 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:27:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:21:17 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] China: permaculture project workers, train-the-trainers sought for Southern China (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 94 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 04:08:13 +1000 From: Adam Tiller To: sustag@metalab.unc.edu Subject: China: permaculture project workers, train-the-trainers sought for Southern China Expressions of Interest sought for paid positions in Southern China as Permaculture project workers and train-the-trainers. Knowledge of participatory development techniques required. Adam Tiller Asia-Pacific Unit Australian Conservation Foundation http://www.pegasus.com.au/~acfapu email: adamt@pegasus.com.au Refs: The "Handpump example" of need for participatory techniques in PNG. http://www.upng.ac.pg/SDNews/NWLT24.html#perticipation An Introduction to Participatory Techniques by Rachel Hinton and David Young http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/intro.html http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/pra.html http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/what.html What is PRA? http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/history.html http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/participation.html http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/references.html Voluntary Service Overseas 317 Putney Bridge Road London SW15 2PN UK tel (44) 181 780 7200 fax (44) 181 780 7300 email: enquiry@vso.org.uk http://www.vso.org.uk/ --------------------------------------------------- http://www.cedpa.org/publications/handtrain.htm Training Manuals Training Trainers for Development: Conducting a Workshop on Participatory Training Techniques A six-day, 12-session curriculum for conducting a workshop on participatory training techniques. This manual prepares trainers to use interactive, learner-centered methods and to design, implement and evaluate participatory, competency-based training. Adult educators, community organizations, groups working with youth and organizations that wish to strengthen in-house training skills will find this manual practical, effective and easy to use. -------------------------------------------- Project Design for Program Managers: Conducting a Workshop on Planning Community-Based Projects A six-day, 11-session curriculum to train project managers to design community-based projects. Project design is approached as an ongoing process within an organization, encompassing needs assessment, problem identification, development and implementation of solutions, monitoring and outcome assessment. Applicable to all sectors. ------------------------------------------------- The Centre for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA) is a women-focused nonprofit international organization. CEDPA field offices are located in Egypt, India, Mali, Nepal, and Nigeria. CEDPA's main office is in Washington, D.C. The Centre for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA) 1400 16th Street NW Washington, D.C. 20036 USA Phone (202) 667-1142, Fax (202) 332-4496 email: cmail@cedpa.org http://www.cedpa.org/ --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From london@metalab.unc.edu Tue Mar 30 13:34:47 1999 -0500 Received: from fddinewz.oit.unc.edu (fddinewz.oit.unc.edu [152.2.25.74]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA04188 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:34:43 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by fddinewz.oit.unc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA11611 for sustag@sunsite.unc.edu; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:21:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu: news set sender to london@sunsite.unc.edu using -f Received: from GATEWAY by news.oit.unc.edu with netnews for sustag@sunsite.unc.edu (sustag@sunsite.unc.edu) To: sustag@metalab.unc.edu Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 04:08:13 +1000 From: "Adam Tiller" Message-ID: <7dr3uv$bat$1@news1.mpx.com.au> Organization: Microplex PTY LTD Sender: london@metalab.unc.edu Subject: China: permaculture project workers, train-the-trainers sought for Southern China Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 95 Expressions of Interest sought for paid positions in Southern China as Permaculture project workers and train-the-trainers. Knowledge of participatory development techniques required. Adam Tiller Asia-Pacific Unit Australian Conservation Foundation http://www.pegasus.com.au/~acfapu email: adamt@pegasus.com.au Refs: The "Handpump example" of need for participatory techniques in PNG. http://www.upng.ac.pg/SDNews/NWLT24.html#perticipation An Introduction to Participatory Techniques by Rachel Hinton and David Young http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/intro.html http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/pra.html http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/what.html What is PRA? http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/history.html http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/participation.html http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/references.html Voluntary Service Overseas 317 Putney Bridge Road London SW15 2PN UK tel (44) 181 780 7200 fax (44) 181 780 7300 email: enquiry@vso.org.uk http://www.vso.org.uk/ --------------------------------------------------- http://www.cedpa.org/publications/handtrain.htm Training Manuals Training Trainers for Development: Conducting a Workshop on Participatory Training Techniques A six-day, 12-session curriculum for conducting a workshop on participatory training techniques. This manual prepares trainers to use interactive, learner-centered methods and to design, implement and evaluate participatory, competency-based training. Adult educators, community organizations, groups working with youth and organizations that wish to strengthen in-house training skills will find this manual practical, effective and easy to use. -------------------------------------------- Project Design for Program Managers: Conducting a Workshop on Planning Community-Based Projects A six-day, 11-session curriculum to train project managers to design community-based projects. Project design is approached as an ongoing process within an organization, encompassing needs assessment, problem identification, development and implementation of solutions, monitoring and outcome assessment. Applicable to all sectors. ------------------------------------------------- The Centre for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA) is a women-focused nonprofit international organization. CEDPA field offices are located in Egypt, India, Mali, Nepal, and Nigeria. CEDPA's main office is in Washington, D.C. The Centre for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA) 1400 16th Street NW Washington, D.C. 20036 USA Phone (202) 667-1142, Fax (202) 332-4496 email: cmail@cedpa.org http://www.cedpa.org/ From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 31 00:12:20 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id AAA17228 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:12:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:05:51 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] China: permaculture project workers, train-the-trainers sought for Southern China (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 96 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 04:08:13 +1000 From: Adam Tiller To: sustag@metalab.unc.edu Subject: China: permaculture project workers, train-the-trainers sought for Southern China Expressions of Interest sought for paid positions in Southern China as Permaculture project workers and train-the-trainers. Knowledge of participatory development techniques required. Adam Tiller Asia-Pacific Unit Australian Conservation Foundation http://www.pegasus.com.au/~acfapu email: adamt@pegasus.com.au Refs: The "Handpump example" of need for participatory techniques in PNG. http://www.upng.ac.pg/SDNews/NWLT24.html#perticipation An Introduction to Participatory Techniques by Rachel Hinton and David Young http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/intro.html http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/pra.html http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/what.html What is PRA? http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/history.html http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/participation.html http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/references.html Voluntary Service Overseas 317 Putney Bridge Road London SW15 2PN UK tel (44) 181 780 7200 fax (44) 181 780 7300 email: enquiry@vso.org.uk http://www.vso.org.uk/ --------------------------------------------------- http://www.cedpa.org/publications/handtrain.htm Training Manuals Training Trainers for Development: Conducting a Workshop on Participatory Training Techniques A six-day, 12-session curriculum for conducting a workshop on participatory training techniques. This manual prepares trainers to use interactive, learner-centered methods and to design, implement and evaluate participatory, competency-based training. Adult educators, community organizations, groups working with youth and organizations that wish to strengthen in-house training skills will find this manual practical, effective and easy to use. -------------------------------------------- Project Design for Program Managers: Conducting a Workshop on Planning Community-Based Projects A six-day, 11-session curriculum to train project managers to design community-based projects. Project design is approached as an ongoing process within an organization, encompassing needs assessment, problem identification, development and implementation of solutions, monitoring and outcome assessment. Applicable to all sectors. ------------------------------------------------- The Centre for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA) is a women-focused nonprofit international organization. CEDPA field offices are located in Egypt, India, Mali, Nepal, and Nigeria. CEDPA's main office is in Washington, D.C. The Centre for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA) 1400 16th Street NW Washington, D.C. 20036 USA Phone (202) 667-1142, Fax (202) 332-4496 email: cmail@cedpa.org http://www.cedpa.org/ --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 31 03:56:00 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id DAA19401 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 03:56:00 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: "permaculture" From: "Guy Clark" To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: OT: Does anyone know of a source of orchard mason bees? Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 04:44:26 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 97 Hello- FEDCO in Waterville, ME carries orchard mason bees in blocks. I do not know if they are still taking orders. It may be too late in the season for them. Namaste', Guy Clark --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 31 03:59:50 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id DAA19424 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 03:59:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 03:47:51 -0500 From: Kelley MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: OT: Does anyone know of a source of orchard mason bees? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 98 What are orchard mason bees? Kelley Guy Clark wrote: > Hello- > FEDCO in Waterville, ME carries orchard mason bees in blocks. I do not > know if they are still taking orders. It may be too late in the season for > them. > Namaste', > Guy Clark > > --- > You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: amaranth@uninets.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 31 11:54:52 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id LAA26111 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:54:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Steve Diver" To: "permaculture" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:43:02 +0000 Subject: [permaculture] Seed Balls, follow-up Reply-to: "permaculture" List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 99 As a follow-up to the "Seeds, Phenology, Sequence of Bloom: Seed Balls" post in March, it turns out there is a company that makes and sells seed balls. Thus, if you need a quick fix and there's no time to mix your own, this company's product may come in handy. Earthseeds http://www.earthseed.com The wildflower and native seeds they incorporate into the seed balls are regionalized for different parts of the country. These for-sale seed balls might be the thing your local city council or school board would fund for roadside beautification and ecological restoration. Again, Jim Bones' "Light Writings" web page is a wondeful site with plenty of instructions on how to make your on own seed balls. Jim Bones' "Light Writings" web page: http://www.seedballs.com/ Seed Balls: A New Tool for Revegetation (Table of Contents) http://www.seedballs.com/tblcon.html A couple people wrote back and said they will be playing around with seed balls this year. Steve Diver --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 31 12:14:38 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id MAA26600 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:14:38 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: "permaculture" From: "Guy Clark" To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: OT: Does anyone know of a source of orchard mason bees? Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:07:16 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 100 Kelley- The Orchard Mason Bee is a bee that is tons more efficient in pollinating than the honey bee. Their scientific name is Osmia Lingaria Propinqua Cresson and it is native to the U.S. and Canada West of the Rockies; East of the Rockies its cousin, Osmia Lingaria Lingaria Say is widespread. There is a wonderfully informative and fun book called The Orchard Mason Bee: The Life History, Biology, Propagation and Use of a Truly Benevolent and Beneficial Insect by Brian L. Griffin. They are amazing pollinators, "Greg Dickman, in his brochure, Orchard Bees", states that the Orchard Mason visits more blossoms each day than the honey bee, and pollinates a much higher percentage of those blooms visited. He states that the honey bee visits an average seven hundred blooms daily. It pollinates only thirty of them, a mere five percent success rate. He further claims that our Orchard Mason pollinates 1600 flowers per day, a pollination success rate of ninety-five to ninety-nine percent." A fully scientific study has not been done, but there is little doubt that the Orchard Mason be is an extremely efficient pollinator. And they begin much earlier in the spring. Namaste', Guy Clark --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 31 12:21:34 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id MAA26817 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:21:33 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: "permaculture" From: "Guy Clark" To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Fw: Stop the Sale of NYC's Community Gardens! Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:11:38 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 101 From: Email Army To: The Mighty Email Army Subject: Stop the Sale of NYC's Community Gardens! Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 12:53 AM *** PLEASE SPREAD THIS NOTICE FAR AND WIDE *** To the Email Army From gardens@cybergal.com 3/31/99 It's official. The auction catalog is out: New York City plans to sell 114 community gardens to real-estate speculators at a two-day auction May 13-14. Over the last 4 months there has been enormous public outcry against this senseless and mean-spirited sale -- but the administration of Rudy Giuliani wouldn't listen. We are now asking every supporter of community gardens to MAKE A PROTEST CALL to Deputy Mayor Joseph Lhota at 212-788-3137. Leave a message expressing your shock and outrage -- demand that EVERY GARDEN BE REMOVED FROM THE AUCTION. Be polite but firm (and help us send flowers to the sure-to-be-harried receptionists by emailing your pledge to jaynedoe@panix.com). Also, start spreading the word about two garden protests/celebrations next weekend, April 10-11: Standing Our Ground WHAT: a massive rally for Community Gardens. WHEN: Sat., April 10, 11-3. WHERE: Bryant Park, 42nd at 6th Ave, Manhattan. Reclaim the Streets (The Garden Party) WHAT: a street celebration in support of Community Gardens. WHEN: Sun., April 11, 1:30 PM sharp! WHERE: El Jardin del Paraiso, E. 5th Str. between Ave. C & D. For more on the fight to save community gardens, visit http://www.panix.com/~jaynedoe If you're not already receiving regular garden alerts, write to gardens@cybergal.com, asking to join the Email Army. To learn about upcoming actions against police brutality, write to avitale@broadway.gc.cuny.edu For a comprehensive weekly calendar of left events in the overlapping worlds of art and politics, write to pbaqc@cunyvm.cuny.edu Jayne Doe (A.K.A. David and Leslie) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Mighty Email Army is a Direct Action-Oriented List in Defense Of Community Gardens And Other Public Spaces, Sponsored By The Lower East Side Collective (212-774-4192; http://www.lescollective.org). To Join, Write To Gardens@Cybergal.Com; Feedback Always Welcomed. _______________________________________________ community_garden maillist - community_garden@mallorn.com https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 31 13:03:34 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id NAA27726 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:03:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:53:51 -0800 X-Sender: lcgardens@cnx.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "permaculture" From: nola@islandnet.com (little creek gardens) Subject: [permaculture] Re: China: permaculture project workers, train-the-trainers sought for Southern China (fwd) List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 102 Do you mean you are looking for people interested in working in southern china ? i worked last year in el salvador helping to develop a permaculture community school. this was participatory development in action. i would be very interested in hearing more about this project! nola poirier (nola@islandnet.com) >http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden >london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 04:08:13 +1000 >From: Adam Tiller >To: sustag@metalab.unc.edu >Subject: China: permaculture project workers, > train-the-trainers sought for Southern China > >Expressions of Interest sought for paid positions in Southern China as >Permaculture project workers and train-the-trainers. Knowledge of >participatory development techniques required. > >Adam Tiller >Asia-Pacific Unit >Australian Conservation Foundation >http://www.pegasus.com.au/~acfapu >email: adamt@pegasus.com.au > > >Refs: > >The "Handpump example" of need for participatory techniques in PNG. >http://www.upng.ac.pg/SDNews/NWLT24.html#perticipation > > >An Introduction to Participatory Techniques >by Rachel Hinton and David Young >http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/intro.html >http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/pra.html >http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/what.html What is PRA? >http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/history.html >http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/participation.html >http://www.vso.org.uk/wpapers/pra/references.html >Voluntary Service Overseas >317 Putney Bridge Road >London SW15 2PN UK >tel (44) 181 780 7200 >fax (44) 181 780 7300 >email: enquiry@vso.org.uk >http://www.vso.org.uk/ > >--------------------------------------------------- >http://www.cedpa.org/publications/handtrain.htm > >Training Manuals > >Training Trainers for Development: Conducting a Workshop on Participatory >Training Techniques > >A six-day, 12-session curriculum for conducting a workshop on participatory >training techniques. This manual prepares trainers to use interactive, >learner-centered methods and to design, implement and evaluate >participatory, competency-based training. Adult educators, community >organizations, groups working with youth and organizations that wish to >strengthen in-house training skills will find this manual practical, >effective and easy to use. > >-------------------------------------------- >Project Design for Program Managers: Conducting a Workshop on Planning >Community-Based Projects > >A six-day, 11-session curriculum to train project managers to design >community-based projects. Project design is approached as an ongoing process >within an organization, encompassing needs assessment, problem >identification, development and implementation of solutions, monitoring and >outcome assessment. Applicable to all sectors. >------------------------------------------------- >The Centre for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA) is a >women-focused nonprofit international organization. >CEDPA field offices are located in Egypt, India, Mali, Nepal, and Nigeria. >CEDPA's main office is in Washington, D.C. > >The Centre for Development and Population Activities (CEDPA) >1400 16th Street NW >Washington, D.C. 20036 USA >Phone (202) 667-1142, Fax (202) 332-4496 >email: cmail@cedpa.org >http://www.cedpa.org/ > > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: nola@islandnet.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to >leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 31 14:03:21 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id OAA29356 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:03:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:56:44 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: Fw: Stop the Sale of NYC's Community Gardens! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 103 I have an ongoing collection of links to sites involved in preserving NYC's Community Gardens http://metalab.unc.edu/london/Elsewhere.html - look near top of page under New Links http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 31 15:50:03 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id PAA01823 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:50:01 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: xavierd@mail.online.no Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:23:54 +0200 To: "permaculture" From: Xavier Dequaire Subject: [permaculture] A Revolution in Agriculture List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id PAA01823 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 104 Hey all- Here is an interesting article in the Columbia Tribune which was delivered at a local conference. We need only think of Rome, Greece, Egypt, etc. and how their cultures/empires collapsed upon the demise of their agriculture system due to poor stewardship of the land/outgrowth of its carrying capacity. Namaste', Guy Clark Tribune Online News Story Story ran on March 30, 1999 A revolution, row by row By JOHN IKERD Sustainability was once referred to as "a quiet revolution sweeping across American agriculture." The revolution continues, but the time for quietness has passed. The current crisis in American agriculture, like the revolution, has been a quiet one. Thousands of farm families are being forced off the land, an inevitable consequence, we are told, of technological progress. Farmers are offered the options of getting bigger, giving in to corporate control or getting out. The crisis is a chronic symptom of the type of agriculture we have been promoting in this country for the past 50 years, magnified by the brazen attempts of giant corporations to wrest control from family farms and complete the industrialization of agriculture. But industrialization is neither inevitable nor progressive. There’s a better way to farm, a better way to produce food and fiber and a better way to live. We are entering a new era in American agriculture — an era in which we learn to support people through agriculture rather than sacrifice their well being to support the industry of agriculture. It’s time to proclaim a new agricultural revolution. Sustainable agriculture and industrial agriculture are two fundamentally different philosophies—diametrically and irreconcilably opposed. There is no common ground on which to compromise. Our task is made more difficult by institutions that see industrialization as the only viable option for the future. The government subsidizes our industrial competitors with everything from tax concessions to direct farm program payments. We are excluded from traditional markets and prevented >from marketing direct to customers by a maze of complex government regulations. We are denied equal access to the research and educational resources of public institutions. Others believe agriculture is mostly about products and profits — not people. To them, if food is cheaper or more convenient, it doesn’t really matter who produces it or how it is produced. But people do matter. About a year ago, when I was recovering from open-heart surgery, I read a book: "The Life and Major Works of Thomas Paine." Paine, a writer during the American Revolution, was credited with articulating the ideas of the Revolution in terms that could be understood by the "common man." He signed his early writings with the pen name "Common Sense." Today, Paine’s work provides valuable insights into how to keep a revolution from failing — at least when the cause makes common sense. Sustainable agriculture, like freedom and democracy, is a cause that makes common sense. Paine gave no quarter to the enemies of freedom and democracy. Nothing in his writings could be mistaken for impartial objectivity. His papers always extolled the great benefits that would be realized by the colonies once they had shed the yoke of British rule. And he never doubted that the American colonists eventually would win their war for independence. We must adopt Thomas Paine’s approach to revolutionize American agriculture — not gradual, incremental changes in farming practices but a fundamentally different philosophy of farming. The divergence between industrial agriculture and sustainable agriculture is as great as that between monarchy and democracy. This is a battle for the hearts and minds of the American people. They need to know the truth about what is happening to American agriculture and why. We need to tell them about our new kind of agriculture that will sustain people, not just the industry of agriculture. And we need to give them common-sense reasons why the old system cannot be sustained and why sustainable agriculture is not a luxury but an absolute necessity. The current economic system rewards the exploitation of natural resources and people, and the visible, tangible epitome of that system is the large, publicly owned corporation. The corporation is the ultimate "economic man" — motivated always and only by its own short-term self-interest, driven solely by an insatiable need for profit and growth. This enemy should be given no quarter. An industrial agriculture might be able to meet our food and fiber needs of today and maybe for another 50 years, but it is degrading and destroying the very resources — soil, water and energy — upon which it depends. An industrial agriculture is said to be efficient, but not when one counts the enormous costs it imposes on the environment and on people in rural communities. Environmentally sound and socially responsible farming operations already exist — many of them as economically efficient as their industrial counterparts. We need to tell the general public that sustainability is not only possible but also logical and, ultimately, essential. The industrial agricultural system might have been logical in the past, but it no longer makes sense. America’s version of industrial agriculture is very similar to the agriculture that failed miserably in the old Soviet Union — bringing down the country in the process. Some claim that our system relies on free markets. But we are turning agriculture over to multinational corporations that control everything from genetic seed stocks to supermarket shelves, eliminating all the free markets in between. Instead of free markets, we have something more like central planning — little different in principle from the old Soviet industrial agriculture. And the outcome will be the same: failure. Farmers themselves are the architects of the new sustainable agriculture. They are the explorers, the colonists and the revolutionaries. Like the revolutionaries who created a democracy, they will confront hardship, frustration and failure. Ultimately, they will succeed. Never doubt the cause is just. Industrial corporate agriculture is not good for people and thus is not sustainable. It’s just common sense. Agriculture ultimately must sustain a desirable quality of life for people — on farms, in rural communities and in the cities. It’s just common sense. Human civilization cannot be sustained without a sustainable agriculture. It’s time for a new revolution in American agriculture. It’s just plain common sense. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ John Ikerd is a professor of agricultural economics at MU. This paper was presented in the opening session of the March 24 "Sustaining People Through Agriculture" conference in Columbia. --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: xavierd@online.no To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 31 17:28:42 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id RAA04114 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:28:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 00:23:43 +0200 From: Christer Ellingsen X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: permaculture Subject: [permaculture] Hello there Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "permaculture" List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 105 There you are, so I finally found you all. let me introduce myself. I'm 30 years old, esoteric healer by profession and have been leading what you might call an alternative lifestyle since I was about 16. Some years ago I "discovered" the internet and was transfixed by it's potential when it comes to spreading a message to a large group of people worldwide. and was especially fascinated but the prospect of putting out any amount of information, and letting the "people on the streets" come find it them self, and then being able to provide those same people with means of communicating with each other both in real time and on a mail or news system. I have been studying since then the net, the art of web design, and peoples behavior on the net. With the goal of helping good ideas and organizations like for instance permaculture to take advance of this potential. My approach to web design/ net use is very much the same as the one I use to life in general: put in a lot of serious effort, plant a seed and let it grow and it will very much take care of it self, provide it with water in times of draught, and see to that the weed don't suffocate it, or better yet let the "weeds" pull their weight, and in time you will harvest in abundance, and your long term effort is small. Web communities can be created the same way. I have now started a small web design/consulting business, and one of my customers are the Norwegian permaculture association. I am building a big web for them with lot's of good info, several ways of community building communications and features that we hope will make the scandinavian permaculture internet community grow. And I have been asked to do the same in english, underway by central people in denmark. As a part of that job I have been scourging the net for some time now for links on permaculture and anything related. Mailing lists and newsgroups. And found a lot, but when it came to news groups i was at a loss until this after noon, when i found this list with a possible news group interface. During my hunt I bumped into several other out on exactly the same hunt. In fact it went so far that I am in the middle of the process of creating a alt.permaculture or alt.sustainable.permaculture (There already is a alt.sustainable.agriculture group as I'm sure most of you know) But now I am at a loss since there already is one active permaculture list with a newsgroup interface. I have taken some hours to consider this and my conclusion is to ask you that are visiting this news server what to do. I don't mean to put anyone or anything down but you seem to be a little hard to find. Since most people use their ISP's news server to visit newsgroups they look at the groups they offer, some might even go to deja news and look there and if they don't find what they are looking for they don't think it can be found. So maybe a alt.permaculture, that would show up on a lot of news servers around the world would be a good idea anyway, it wouldn't be a competitor to this group rather a boost. More people would find their way to a group or list, and the two could work for each other. there are some people ho have a natural aversion for mailing list and there are alot of persons that prefer newsgroups to mailing lists, i am aware of the fact that there are several lists out there but since this seems to be a active and healthy list I thought it was worth a try to get opinions from you. So what do you say good people? I see from an earlier posting to this group that some of you use ICQ I have ICQ # 13078734 have e-mail aasnee@online.no and are registered at icq under the nick name norseman, if some of you would like to seek me out to discuss this proposal or other issues or just have a chat session, be my guest. I do apologize for any unclearity due to bad syntax, grammar or misspelling, english is obviously not my natural tongue. -- Christer Ellingsen Norway aasnee@online.no ------------------------ Voice: + 47 73976196 Fax: +47 73975755 Cellular: +47 90147718 E-mail: aasnee@online.no ****************************************************************** Freedom is not in the finished carving but in the wood chips left on the floor. ****************************************************************** --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 31 17:31:54 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id RAA04172 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:31:53 -0500 (EST) From: FranksFarm@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:23:20 EST To: "permaculture" Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [permaculture] Re: OT: Does anyone know of a source of orchard mason bees? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 106 Hi Guy, Thanks for the very interesting post on Orchard Bees. I'd like to include bees in my plans ...but am a rank amateur . Perhaps somewhere down the road. Can you tell me what you need toraise these kind of bees...are they resistant to varroa mite that has ravaged so many hives? Happy Easter to all. Namaste:) Frank --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 31 17:59:13 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id RAA04688 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:59:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:52:24 -0500 From: gardenbetty@earthlink.net Reply-To: "permaculture" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: OT: Does anyone know of a source of orchard mason bees? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net id OAA29068 List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id RAA04688 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 107 Howdy, The orchard mason bee or hornfaced bee (same family--osmia) are easy to steward. They are solitary bees that nest in predrilled holes. They usually take abandoned beetle tunnels in trees, but will take quite well to any 5/16" ish hole. For best female production--the pollinating sex--you should /cleanly/ drill a non pressure treated block full of 5/16" holes 6" deep. If you can sand smooth the bottom of the hole, even better. Hang the block in the orchard and either stock it with bees or wait for them to come. The bees have a range of about 10o yards. They emerge as the fruit trees come into bloom, pollinate like crazy, taking the pollen back to their holes for storage. As the fruit flower period ends, the female lays eggs in the stored pollen in the holes, then "masons" the hole shut with mud. For this reason, they like to have a water source nearby within their range. Once the nest is sealed they die. Over and done in no time. Great for fruit, no so great for veggies. Warm weather honeybees and cool weather osmia bees are perfect compliments. Because of this habit, they are not affected by varroa mite or other honeybee plagues. However, their nests can become fodder for parasitic wasps and certain fungi. To solve this, there are different commercial products available to osmia bee stewards: paper straws replaced yearly to line the nesting holes provide a clean, dry fungus-free environment; and guard tubes to block entry by parasitic wasps. These products are available very cheaply and once you see how they are made, you can improvise your own if you want to take the time and effort. Some people put ultra fine mesh screening over the blocks to prevent wasps. Some just take their blocks down once the nest is sealed and store them in the fridge till the next year. However osmia bees are very prolific reproducers: by year 5 you could easily have to buy a fridge just to house your bees! You could also try drilling other size holes and see what kind of creatures show up. At different widths, you can encouraged leaf-cutter bees (warm weather solitary bees), beneficial parasitic wasps, and various mystery beelike insects I've yet to identify but seem to cause no harm. I strongly recommend this website by the US authority on these bees. http://www.accessone.com/~knoxclr/omb.htm good luck! dawn aka gardenbetty We will be known by the tracks we leave behind... —Dakota proverb FranksFarm@aol.com wrote: > > Hi Guy, > > Thanks for the very interesting post on Orchard Bees. > > I'd like to include bees in my plans ...but am a rank amateur . > > Perhaps somewhere down the road. Can you tell me what you need toraise these > kind of bees...are they resistant to varroa mite that has ravaged so many > hives? > > Happy Easter to all. Namaste:) Frank > > --- > You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: gardenbetty@earthlink.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75878E@franklin.oit.unc.edu -- --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 31 21:24:22 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id VAA08301 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:24:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Claude Genest" To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: Hello there Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:21:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 108 ALl for it ! Go to it , mate ! ( and thank you) -----Original Message----- From: Christer Ellingsen Newsgroups: permaculture To: permaculture Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 5:22 PM Subject: [permaculture] Hello there >There you are, >so I finally found you all. >let me introduce myself. > >I'm 30 years old, esoteric healer by profession and have been leading >what you might call an alternative lifestyle since I was about 16. >Some years ago I "discovered" the internet and was transfixed by it's >potential when it comes to spreading a message to a large group of >people worldwide. and was especially fascinated but the prospect of >putting out any amount of information, and letting the "people on the >streets" come find it them self, and then being able to provide those >same people with means of communicating with each other both in real >time and on a mail or news system. I have been studying since then the >net, the art of web design, and peoples behavior on the net. With the >goal of helping good ideas and organizations like for instance >permaculture to take advance of this potential. My approach to web >design/ net use is very much the same as the one I use to life in >general: put in a lot of serious effort, plant a seed and let it grow >and it will very much take care of it self, provide it with water in >times of draught, and see to that the weed don't suffocate it, or better > >yet let the "weeds" pull their weight, and in time you will harvest in >abundance, and your long term effort is small. Web communities can be >created the same way. > >I have now started a small web design/consulting business, and one of my > >customers are the Norwegian permaculture association. I am building a >big web for them with lot's of good info, several ways of community >building communications and features that we hope will make the >scandinavian permaculture internet community grow. And I have been asked > >to do the same in english, underway by central people in denmark. > >As a part of that job I have been scourging the net for some time now >for links on permaculture and anything related. Mailing lists and >newsgroups. And found a lot, but when it came to news groups i was at a >loss until this after noon, when i found this list with a possible news >group interface. During my hunt I bumped into several other >out on exactly the same hunt. In fact it went so far that I am in the >middle of the process of creating a alt.permaculture or >alt.sustainable.permaculture (There already is a >alt.sustainable.agriculture group as I'm sure most of you know) But now >I am at a loss since there already is one active permaculture list with >a newsgroup interface. >I have taken some hours to consider this and my conclusion is to ask you > >that are visiting this news server what to do. > >I don't mean to put anyone or anything down but you seem to be a little >hard to find. Since most people use their ISP's news server to visit >newsgroups they look at the groups they offer, some might even go to >deja news and look there and if they don't find what they are looking >for they don't think it can be found. So maybe a alt.permaculture, that >would show up on a lot of news servers around the world would be a good >idea anyway, it wouldn't be a competitor to this group rather a boost. >More people would find their way to a group or list, >and the two could work for each other. there are some people ho have a >natural aversion for mailing list and there are alot of persons that >prefer newsgroups to mailing lists, i am aware of the fact that there >are several lists out there but since this seems to be a active and >healthy list I thought it was worth a try to get opinions from you. > >So what do you say good people? > >I see from an earlier posting to this group that some of you use ICQ I >have ICQ # 13078734 have e-mail aasnee@online.no and are registered at >icq under the nick name norseman, if some of you would like to seek me >out to discuss this proposal or other issues or just have a chat >session, be my >guest. > >I do apologize for any unclearity due to bad syntax, grammar or >misspelling, english is obviously not my natural tongue. > >-- >Christer Ellingsen >Norway >aasnee@online.no >------------------------ >Voice: + 47 73976196 >Fax: +47 73975755 >Cellular: +47 90147718 >E-mail: aasnee@online.no >****************************************************************** >Freedom is not in the finished carving but in the wood chips left >on the floor. >****************************************************************** > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: genest@together.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu > > --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Wed Mar 31 23:12:50 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id XAA10382 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:12:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:06:20 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "permaculture" cc: permaculture Subject: [permaculture] Re: Hello there In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 109 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, Christer Ellingsen wrote: > There you are, > so I finally found you all. > let me introduce myself. Welcome to MetaLab's permaculture discussion forum! Glad you found us. > I'm 30 years old, esoteric healer by profession and have been leading > what you might call an alternative lifestyle since I was about 16. > Some years ago I "discovered" the internet and was transfixed by it's > potential when it comes to spreading a message to a large group of > people worldwide. and was especially fascinated but the prospect of > putting out any amount of information, and letting the "people on the > streets" come find it them self, and then being able to provide those > same people with means of communicating with each other both in real > time and on a mail or news system. I have been studying since then the > net, the art of web design, and peoples behavior on the net. With the > goal of helping good ideas and organizations like for instance > permaculture to take advance of this potential. My approach to web > design/ net use is very much the same as the one I use to life in > general: put in a lot of serious effort, plant a seed and let it grow > and it will very much take care of it self, provide it with water in > times of draught, and see to that the weed don't suffocate it, or better > yet let the "weeds" pull their weight, and in time you will harvest in > abundance, and your long term effort is small. Web communities can be > created the same way. It does seem to work that way, fortunately for all of us. > I have now started a small web design/consulting business, and one of my > customers are the Norwegian permaculture association. I am building a > big web for them with lot's of good info, several ways of community > building communications and features that we hope will make the > scandinavian permaculture internet community grow. And I have been asked > to do the same in english, underway by central people in denmark. What is the address of your Norwegian PC website? > As a part of that job I have been scourging the net for some time now > for links on permaculture and anything related. Mailing lists and > newsgroups. And found a lot, but when it came to news groups i was at a > loss until this after noon, when i found this list with a possible news > group interface. During my hunt I bumped into several other Yes, this list (or forum) _does_ have a news interface. > out on exactly the same hunt. In fact it went so far that I am in the > middle of the process of creating a alt.permaculture or > alt.sustainable.permaculture (There already is a Possibly a good idea to create alt.permaculture, though it may get spammed enought to discourage active participation by good contributors. This list can be made spamproof - said users and their posts can be permanently deleted/locked out. > alt.sustainable.agriculture group as I'm sure most of you know) But now > I am at a loss since there already is one active permaculture list with > a newsgroup interface. This is that list. > I have taken some hours to consider this and my conclusion is to ask you > that are visiting this news server what to do. I'd suggest sticking with this list for the long haul. Alt.permaculture may be a good idea too. > I don't mean to put anyone or anything down but you seem to be a little > hard to find. Since most people use their ISP's news server to visit > newsgroups they look at the groups they offer, some might even go to > deja news and look there and if they don't find what they are looking > for they don't think it can be found. So maybe a alt.permaculture, that You just have to know the name of our news server in order to access this list, and it is: news://franklin.oit.unc.edu. Here's complete info on our PC forum: Usage Guide For the Natural Agriculture Heirarchy of Discussion Forums at MetaLab |+| Lawrence F. London, Jr., site administrator london@metalab.unc.edu, llondon@bellsouth.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london Email me if you have questions, corrections, requests or suggestions This document is located at: http://metalb.unc.edu/london/forumdoc.txt |+| The forum server is intelligent and flexible and tolerates a wide range of input in case you forget access details. |+| Subscribers will be able to post, crosspost and read using any method of access: the Web, email or news; non-subscribers will be able to read but not post. |+| The system is set to archive permanently ALL posts to the list whether they are posted via news, the Website or email. |+| Any spam posted will result in the offending party being locked out of the forum and all their messages will be purged from the archive. ______ ACCESS ______ Access by email: ---------------- general information is available at: http://metalab.unc.edu/london/forumdoc.txt subscribe/unsubscribe via email: send email to lyris@franklin.oit.unc.edu - in text of message include the following words: subscribe (or unsubscribe) Ex.: subscribe permaculture (posting to the list subscribers) send email to: @franklin.oit.unc.edu Ex.: permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu Access on the Web: ------------------ go to this URL: http://franklin.oit.unc.edu go to "Official SunSITE Contributor Lists" then go to: "Topics Related to Natural Agriculture" then go to the forum of your choice or go to this URL: ------------------ permaculture forum (permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu): http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=permaculture&text_mode=0 or go to this URL to view all the forums available in the Natural Agriculture heirarchy: http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?site=sunsite-contrib&page=topic&topic=natural-agriculture&text_mode=0 Here you can subscribe/unsubscribe, change your user options (i.e. tell the list not to send you any email, that you prefer to access the forum via the Web or as a newsgroup), read, post, search Access by newsgroup: -------------------- Method 1 using your news reader: - Access via Usenet news can be had by adding this news server name to your list of news servers in your news reader, or make it your default server: franklin.oit.unc.edu [in Netscape this is easy - just click on "file", then "open news host", then type in franklin.oit.unc.edu in the dialog box]. In Free Agent you can only have one news server (host) but you can, of course, run multiple copies of Free Agent [just install it into separate folders, each with a different name and different desktop icon]. Connect with the news server and download the list of newsgroups available and subscribe to the ones that interest you. Method 2 using your Web browser [+ news reader]: - go to this URL: news://franklin.oit.unc.edu and download the list of newsgroups available and subscribe to the ones that interest you or go to this URL: news://franklin.oit.unc.edu/put name of forum (= newsgroup, = mailing list) here to get to individual forums directly for reading and/or posting (if you're subscribed) ==================================== URLs for access via the Web and news ==================================== http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?site=sunsite-contrib&page=topic&topic=natural-agriculture&text_mode=0 Natural Agriculture heirarchy of forums <> http://metalab.unc.edu/london/forumdoc.txt USAGE: How to access the forums <> Access via the Web: ------------------- permaculture forum http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=permaculture&text_mode=0 Access as a newsgroup: ---------------------- news://franklin.oit.unc.edu Go to server/download list of groups permaculture forum news://franklin.oit.unc.edu/permaculture (type this URL directly into the dialog box in your Web browser) <> <> <> > would show up on a lot of news servers around the world would be a good > idea anyway, it wouldn't be a competitor to this group rather a boost. > More people would find their way to a group or list, > and the two could work for each other. there are some people ho have a > natural aversion for mailing list and there are alot of persons that > prefer newsgroups to mailing lists, i am aware of the fact that there > are several lists out there but since this seems to be a active and > healthy list I thought it was worth a try to get opinions from you. > > So what do you say good people? Alt.permaculture may be a good idea but this list has more features and is more versatile .... and is spamproof ...._and_ archives everything posted to the list for public retreival. > I see from an earlier posting to this group that some of you use ICQ I > have ICQ # 13078734 have e-mail aasnee@online.no and are registered at > icq under the nick name norseman, if some of you would like to seek me > out to discuss this proposal or other issues or just have a chat > session, be my > guest. I'll have to crank up my ICQ Chat program again and get back online - will contact you there when I do. I am dirtfarmer, ICQ # 27930345 search ICQ for my info - I haven't been online for months - don't know if my account is still there. We really ought to have a permaculture chat room. Care to set one up on Mirabilis home page (the ICQ users homepage)? What's the best version of ICQ to get at this time? ICQ 99b? or a later version? What is the best site for downloading the software? > I do apologize for any unclearity due to bad syntax, grammar or > misspelling, english is obviously not my natural tongue. You're doing just fine, not to worry. Permaculturally, Lawrence permaculture list owner natural agriculture site administrator > -- > Christer Ellingsen > Norway > aasnee@online.no > ------------------------ > Voice: + 47 73976196 > Fax: +47 73975755 > Cellular: +47 90147718 > E-mail: aasnee@online.no > ****************************************************************** > Freedom is not in the finished carving but in the wood chips left > on the floor. > ****************************************************************** > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu > --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Thu Apr 1 11:46:05 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id LAA19716 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:46:04 -0500 (EST) From: FranksFarm@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:38:27 EST To: "permaculture" Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [permaculture] Re: OT: Does anyone know of a source of orchard mason bees? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 110 Hi, Dawn...thanks for the great post and the URL on the mason bees. Glad to hear they are not as susceptible to varroa. I'm planning on putting a small orchard fairly within 200 ft of the house do you think they'd be a problem in that location. I could possibly locate the hives further away. <> Happy Easter! Frank --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Thu Apr 1 13:17:00 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id NAA22317 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:17:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:10:11 -0500 From: gardenbetty@earthlink.net Reply-To: "permaculture" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: OT: Does anyone know of a source of orchard mason bees? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net id KAA21978 List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id NAA22317 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 111 Hi Frank, mason bees are extremely gentle; you can even hold them in your hand. When they do sting it is less severe than, say, a honeybee or yellow jacket (yikes!) They often nest in holes or crevices they find on your house, so I wouldn't worry about proximity. You could even mount their homes on the east or south side of your house itself. They need protection from wind and water and like a sunny spot that won't get hotter than 90 degrees F. Just make sure they are very close to your trees. One note: mason bees don't live in hives. They are solitary bees and their homes (blocks) are more like condo associations than hives!:) Happy Equinox and Passover! dawn aka gardenbetty We will be known by the tracks we leave behind... —Dakota proverb FranksFarm@aol.com wrote: > > Hi, > > Dawn...thanks for the great post and the URL on the mason bees. Glad to hear > they are not as susceptible to varroa. > > I'm planning on putting a small orchard fairly within 200 ft of the house do > you think they'd be a problem in that location. I could possibly locate the > hives further away. > > <> > > Happy Easter! Frank > --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Thu Apr 1 19:30:24 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id TAA01473 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:30:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Steve Diver" To: "permaculture" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:18:27 +0000 Subject: [permaculture] Seeds Balls, Seed Treatments, Reiki-Vibrated Seeds Reply-to: "permaculture" List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 112 The following is a series of seed topics and resources: *Seed Balls at Jim Bone's "Light Writings" web site *Earthseeds company that sells pre-made seed balls *Seed treatments *Reiki-vibrated seeds from Hands of Light Seeds company *Seed finder links on the web *Organic/Non-GE Seed Sources ============================================== 1. As a starting point, check out the very informative web page by Jim Bones on seed balls. It features awe inspiring photographs, earth restoration concepts and practices, wisdom from Masanobu Fukuoka, and cool web links. Note: There is 30-minute video titled "The Seed Ball Story." Jim Bones' "Light Writings" web page: http://www.seedballs.com/ [Agriculture - Art - Biodiversity - Earth Education - Fukuoka - Nature - Seed Balls - Watersheds - Wilderness] Seed Balls: A New Tool for Revegetation (Table of Contents) http://www.seedballs.com/tblcon.html Page 1. Seed Balls - Preface: New use of old ways, a tool for revegetation. Page 2. Seed Balls - Masanobu Fukuoka, Sensei of Natural Farming. Page 3. Seed Balls - I. What they are and how to make them. Page 4. Seed Balls - II. How to apply them. Page 5. Seed Balls - An introduction - Part A. Page 6. Seed Balls - An introduction - Part B. Page 7. Seed Balls - III. A word of caution. Page 8. Seed Balls - Sources of materials. Page 9. Seed Balls - The von Bachmayr Rotary Drum. Page 10. Seed Balls - The Seed Ball Story, an instructional video tape. Page 11. Seed Balls - Research, applications and related subjects. Page 12. Seed Balls - On A Green Mountain, a visit with Masanobu Fukuoka. ========================================= 2. As a follow-up to making seed balls at Jim Bone's web site, it turns out there is a company that makes and sells seed balls. Thus, if you need a quick fix and there's no time to mix your own, this company's product may come in handy. Earthseeds http://www.earthseed.com The wildflower and native seeds they incorporate into the seed balls are regionalized for different parts of the country. These for-sale seed balls might be just the thing your local city council or school board would fund for roadside beautification and ecological restoration. =========================================== 3. Seed treatments can be viewed as the first step towards an organic-biodynamic-alternative farming system that relies on natural processes and biological inputs to fuel the production cycle. Seed treatments include biodynamic preparations, hydrogen peroxide, biostimulants (seaweed, humic acid, urine, compost teas, BD preps), bacteriazation (bacterial inoculation), mycorrhizal inoculation (symbiotic fungi), and others types of microbial inoculation, aryuvedic plant-based extracts, clays, soils, and vibrational methods (magnetism, Reiki, radionics, homeopathy). Note: listing the seed treatments is the easy part. Locating and summarizing information on rates of application, soaking times, and expeceted results is another matter altogether. That is to say that all of the above are done somewhere or another, but printed results are scattered and obscure. ============================================ 4. Hands of Light is a seed company that features Reiki-vibrated seeds, Sonic-bloom-like audio tapes, books and bulletins on subtle energy gardening, and foliar feeding products. Hands of Light Seed Company http://www.liteweb.org/hol/ Note: The website listed here is active but perhaps out-of-date because the address for HOL in the 1999 HOL Seed List is different. Website address: Hands of Light Seeds 6482 Piney Woods Road Riner, VA 24149 1999 HOL Seed List Address: Hands of Light Seeds 2135 Denniston Ave Roanoke, VA 24015 Depending on which way you get to the website, you can find a series of informative on-line articles on subtle energy gardening by Don Elwood. The articles provide sufficient background to gain an understanding of this unique approach. Gardening With Subtle Energies, Articles 1-7 http://www.liteweb.org/articles/holart1.html http://www.liteweb.org/articles/holart2.html http://www.liteweb.org/articles/holart3.html http://www.liteweb.org/articles/holart4.html http://www.liteweb.org/articles/holart5.html http://www.liteweb.org/articles/holart6.html http://www.liteweb.org/articles/holart7.html In addition, Elwood is the author of several books: *Quest for the Light *Holistic Gardening: A Scientific Approach for Gardening with Love *Spiritual Gardening at its Best, Quest for the Navoti Spirit *Knocking at the Gate, The White Gold Adventure Certainly the Sonic-bloom-like and Reiki-vibrated seed treatments of Don Elwood stretches the imagination of most Westernized models of agriculture. The fact that Elwood is an aerospace engineer skilled in conducting experiments and recording data adds credibility to the extraordinary results he's obtained with these seed treatments, however. Several years ago when I first started corresponding with Don Elwood, he explained that one of the driving forces behind his research had to do self-sufficient food production. Whereas modern organic farming and gardening systems still rely quite heavily on shipments of specialized products like rock phosphate, rock dusts, seaweed etc., there may come a time when we are forced to utilize resources that exist on site. Juxtaposed against Y2K and Beyond predictions, the alchemy of on-site clays, minerals, and resources sounds like a very good idea. ============================================= 5. For those needing access to extensive seed listings, seed companies, and seed links.... see the following two sites. Seed Quest http://www.seedquest.com/ Seed World http://www.seedworld.com/seedworld.html Also see: Anderson's Library Plant Information On-Line http://plantinfo.umn.edu/default.asp ======================================== 6. For access to organic, un-treated, and non-genetically modified seeds, see the ATTRA seed list..... Suppliers of Organic, Non-GE, or Heirloom (O-P) Seeds http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/altseed.html Also see: The Heirloom Gardening Page http://www.webslnger.com/wethepeople/ ============================================ Feedback to the list on field trials with seed balls and seed treatments would be good. Regards, Steve Diver --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Thu Apr 1 20:04:56 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id UAA01885 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:04:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:57:57 -0500 From: gardenbetty@earthlink.net Reply-To: "permaculture" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] [Fwd: Perennial Vegetable Seed Company Catalog now online] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 113 > > If you want to be happy for a year, plant a garden. > If you want to be happy for a lifetime, plant perennial vegetables... > > The 1999 Perennial Vegetable Seed Company catalog is now available > on-line at > > http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~trf/pvsc99.html > > About PVSC: Our goal is to introduce the public to a diversity of > perennial vegetables. These plants have mostly been neglected as food > plants, because they do not fit well into annual cropping systems. > However, many are low-maintenance, virtually trouble-free crops which > provide food year after year! > > There are perennial vegetables for all occasions, from formal border and > herb gardens, to the shade of fruit and nut trees, to naturalizing in your > backyard prairie, forest, or wetland. A great diversity of perennial > vegetable species exist. Some have been cultivated for centuries, some are > wild, and some are only now being developed as crops. As PVSC grows, we > will offer more and more species, many of which are not commercially > available in North America. This year we are growing out improved > Groundnut (Apios americana), as well as Sea Beet (Beta vulgaris maritima), > the perennial ancestor of beets and chard, Turkish Rocket (Bunias > orientalis), a tasty perennial mustard relative, and more. We are hot on > the trail of perennial Brassica species, including perennial broccolis and > kales, and their wild ancestor, perennial Wild Cabbage (Brassica > oleracea). > > On the new website you can also find out about a special offer on _Edible > Forest Gardens_, a new, comprehensive guide to perennial vegetables and > perennial polyculture systems. > > ***************** > T. Robert Fetter > Research Assistant > Dept. of Resource Economics > Draper Hall > University of Massachusetts > Amherst, MA 01003 > phone 413-545-5716 > fax 413-545-5853 > trf@student.umass.edu --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Thu Apr 1 20:57:36 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id UAA02470 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:57:30 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:50:58 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Perennial Vegetable Seed Company Catalog now online (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 114 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:00:47 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Fetter To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu, NEFOOD-L@SARDONYX.TUFTS.EDU, Food for Thought Mailing List , Ecol-Agric Mailing List Cc: Eric Toensmeier , Gita A Mann Subject: Perennial Vegetable Seed Company Catalog now online If you want to be happy for a year, plant a garden. If you want to be happy for a lifetime, plant perennial vegetables... The 1999 Perennial Vegetable Seed Company catalog is now available on-line at http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~trf/pvsc99.html About PVSC: Our goal is to introduce the public to a diversity of perennial vegetables. These plants have mostly been neglected as food plants, because they do not fit well into annual cropping systems. However, many are low-maintenance, virtually trouble-free crops which provide food year after year! There are perennial vegetables for all occasions, from formal border and herb gardens, to the shade of fruit and nut trees, to naturalizing in your backyard prairie, forest, or wetland. A great diversity of perennial vegetable species exist. Some have been cultivated for centuries, some are wild, and some are only now being developed as crops. As PVSC grows, we will offer more and more species, many of which are not commercially available in North America. This year we are growing out improved Groundnut (Apios americana), as well as Sea Beet (Beta vulgaris maritima), the perennial ancestor of beets and chard, Turkish Rocket (Bunias orientalis), a tasty perennial mustard relative, and more. We are hot on the trail of perennial Brassica species, including perennial broccolis and kales, and their wild ancestor, perennial Wild Cabbage (Brassica oleracea). On the new website you can also find out about a special offer on _Edible Forest Gardens_, a new, comprehensive guide to perennial vegetables and perennial polyculture systems. ***************** T. Robert Fetter Research Assistant Dept. of Resource Economics Draper Hall University of Massachusetts Amherst, MA 01003 phone 413-545-5716 fax 413-545-5853 trf@student.umass.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Thu Apr 1 21:20:42 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id VAA02856 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:20:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 04:17:12 +0200 From: Christer Ellingsen X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: permaculture Subject: [permaculture] Re: Hello there References: <14640@permaculture> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "permaculture" List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 115 Claude Genest wrote: > ALl for it ! > Go to it , mate ! ( and thank you) > Glad to hear that. My pleasure -- Christer Ellingsen Skansenv. 1 N-7563 Malvik Norway ------------------------ Voice: + 47 73976196 Fax: +47 73975755 Cellular: +47 90147718 E-mail: aasnee@online.no ****************************************************************** Freedom is not in the finished carving but in the wood chips left on the floor. ****************************************************************** --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Thu Apr 1 21:46:35 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id VAA03570 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:46:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 04:43:11 +0200 From: Christer Ellingsen X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: permaculture Subject: [permaculture] Re: Hello there References: <14645@permaculture> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "permaculture" List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 116 Larry London wrote: > > > Welcome to MetaLab's permaculture discussion forum! > Glad you found us. > Thank you very much, and so am I. > It does seem to work that way, fortunately for all of us. Indeed > > What is the address of your Norwegian PC website? i take it that you are referring to the site of the norwegian Permaculture association. That site is still under development. But I will post the url to the group as soon as it is open to the public. > > Yes, this list (or forum) _does_ have a news interface. And a good feature it is, I subscribe that way. > > Possibly a good idea to create alt.permaculture, though it may get > spammed enought to discourage active participation by good contributors. > This list can be made spamproof - said users and their posts can be > permanently deleted/locked out. Yes, well spam is a problem in some news groups but it doesn't seem to be a overwhelming problem at least not in this kind of group. But a mailing list like is of course more spam proof but then everything has it's advantages and disadvantages that's why it might be a good idea to have both the different mailing lists offered around the net, and a newsgroup. > > > I have taken some hours to consider this and my conclusion is to ask you > > that are visiting this news server what to do. > > I'd suggest sticking with this list for the long haul. Alt.permaculture > may be a good idea too. Mailing list are a good way of communicating, I spent my first months on the net in a "safe heaven" of a woodcarver mailing list. i have a lot to thank those "wood chucks" for, kind of teaching me the ropes. but mailing lists and newsgroups tend to attract differnet clientele and subjects so i think it would be a good thing to have both. > You just have to know the name of our news server in order to access this > list, and it is: news://franklin.oit.unc.edu. Yes but that url wasn't too easy to find. Well thank you very much for the good hearted input. Since the input so far (both on the list and privately) seems to be positive i will go ahead and create the group. One important part of that process creating a new group is to prove that there is ongoing communication on the subject of the group on the net. Would it be possible to get a copy of stats. on the posting to the different lyris forums that you host? Not names of senders of course just numbers for a given period. Christer Ellingsen Mellom Barken og veien Web design og internett konsult. Peel and discover Web design, hosting and Internet consulting services ------------------------------------------------------------------ Skansenv. 1 N-7563 Malvik Norway ------------------------ Voice: + 47 73976196 Fax: +47 73975755 Cellular: +47 90147718 E-mail: aasnee@online.no ****************************************************************** Freedom is not in the finished carving but in the wood chips left on the floor. ****************************************************************** --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Thu Apr 1 22:37:59 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id WAA04111 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:37:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:31:23 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Compost Awareness Week May 2-8 (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 117 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:25:35 -0800 From: Pat Jones To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Cc: pjones@ciwmb.ca.gov Subject: Compost Awareness Week May 2-8 April 2, 1999 Dear Friend of Compost and Composting: I would like to encourage you to participate in the upcoming National Composting Awareness Week," May 2-8, 1999. Being sponsored for the first time by the U.S. Composting Council, this international event is designed to turn the spotlight on composting, create enthusiasm for recycling urban organic materials, and increase demand for compost and mulch products. The theme for 1999, "It's Your Turn ... Compost!" draws attention to the importance of composting, whether small-scale home projects or large-scale community operations. The week's goal coincides with a priority of the California Integrated Waste Management Board (CIWMB) "Greening Team," namely to keep organic materials out of landfills by making, selling, and using value-added organic products such as compost and mulch. To celebrate this week, the CIWMB encourages you to plan local community activities to take advantage of State and national media coverage. You could host open house events and tours of composting facilities and demonstration gardens, offer special prices on products, or schedule "how to compost" backyard composting training sessions to build community support and call attention to the reuse of organic materials. A press release from the U.S. Composting Council is enclosed with this letter; you can adapt it to meet your needs by adding specific local event information, or you can write your own release. Media coverage by TV & radio shows could highlight events and activities of your own as well as extend to newspaper articles on gardening and the use of compost. Any company that sponsors events can be listed on the U.S. Composting Council's future advertisements and printed materials for specific events and on its Web site, as well as be included in its upcoming Public Service Announcements where possible. For more information about National Composting Awareness Week in general or about the benefits of company sponsorships, contact Rod Tyler, National Field Representative of the U.S. Composting Council, at (440) 926-8041, or by e-mail at rodndon@gte.net. The CIWMB also will help advertise all National Composting Awareness Week events. Please let us know about your events as they are planned so that we can post them on the CIWMB's Organics Outlook Web site, http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/organics. Send information about your plans to Ava De Lara at adelara@ciwmb.ca.gov or contact her at (916) 255-2613. Organically yours, William R. Orr Greening Team Leader To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Thu Apr 1 23:09:38 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id XAA04554 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:09:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:03:04 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: Hello there In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 118 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net > Well thank you very much for the good hearted input. Since the input > so far (both on the list and privately) seems to be positive i will go > ahead and create the group. One important part of that process Great! > creating a new group is to prove that there is ongoing communication > on the subject of the group on the net. Would it be possible to get a > copy of stats. on the posting to the different lyris forums that you > host? Not names of senders of course just numbers for a given period. > Christer Ellingsen I can have alt.permaculture created here at UNC if the need arises. We'll only need a statement of purpose and a little discussion in alt.config (?) , news.groups (?). Stats won't be necessary only demonstrated interest amongst net users expressed in the right new-newsgroup Usenet newsgroup for a week or so - this is just to insure that when your newsgroup gets initially propagated, news admins around the world will opt to carry your alt. newsgroup - that's not automatic with alt. newsgroups like it is with the others in the Usenet heirarchy). Anyway, about stats for this PC forum: looks like in excess of 276 articles posted between 1-1-99 and 4-1-99 However this is only a drop in the bucket as this incarnation of our PC list is on its third server - the number of articles posted from 1-1-99 back to the beginning of the list around 1993-1994 would probably exceed 1500-1800. I will be putting archives of all of these (including this forum) online in html format sometime soon - then the big Web search engines will be able to index them for retreival. We'll be much easier toi find then. Let me know if you need more info or stats. Lawrence > Mellom Barken og veien > Web design og internett konsult. > > Peel and discover > Web design, hosting and Internet consulting services > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Skansenv. 1 > N-7563 Malvik > Norway > ------------------------ > Voice: + 47 73976196 > Fax: +47 73975755 > Cellular: +47 90147718 > E-mail: aasnee@online.no > ****************************************************************** > Freedom is not in the finished carving but in the wood chips left > on the floor. > ****************************************************************** > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu > --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Fri Apr 2 09:04:54 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id JAA09656 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:04:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 05:55:41 -0800 Subject: [permaculture] Re: Hello there From: "Jeremy Sharp" To: "permaculture" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 119 Howdy folks from Sonoma Permaculture we are looking for a green fund in permaculture circles that does third world funding for permaculture related projects if you know any other third world funding for permaculture projects give us a list happy digging and planting from the folks at Sonoma Permaculture ---------- >From: Larry London >To: "permaculture" >Subject: [permaculture] Re: Hello there >Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999, 8:06 PM > > >http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden >london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net > >On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, Christer Ellingsen wrote: > >> There you are, >> so I finally found you all. >> let me introduce myself. > >Welcome to MetaLab's permaculture discussion forum! >Glad you found us. > >> I'm 30 years old, esoteric healer by profession and have been leading >> what you might call an alternative lifestyle since I was about 16. >> Some years ago I "discovered" the internet and was transfixed by it's > > potential when it comes to spreading a message to a large group of >> people worldwide. and was especially fascinated but the prospect of >> putting out any amount of information, and letting the "people on the >> streets" come find it them self, and then being able to provide those >> same people with means of communicating with each other both in real >> time and on a mail or news system. I have been studying since then the >> net, the art of web design, and peoples behavior on the net. With the >> goal of helping good ideas and organizations like for instance >> permaculture to take advance of this potential. My approach to web >> design/ net use is very much the same as the one I use to life in >> general: put in a lot of serious effort, plant a seed and let it grow >> and it will very much take care of it self, provide it with water in >> times of draught, and see to that the weed don't suffocate it, or better >> yet let the "weeds" pull their weight, and in time you will harvest in >> abundance, and your long term effort is small. Web communities can be >> created the same way. > >It does seem to work that way, fortunately for all of us. > >> I have now started a small web design/consulting business, and one of my >> customers are the Norwegian permaculture association. I am building a >> big web for them with lot's of good info, several ways of community >> building communications and features that we hope will make the >> scandinavian permaculture internet community grow. And I have been asked >> to do the same in english, underway by central people in denmark. > >What is the address of your Norwegian PC website? > >> As a part of that job I have been scourging the net for some time now >> for links on permaculture and anything related. Mailing lists and >> newsgroups. And found a lot, but when it came to news groups i was at a >> loss until this after noon, when i found this list with a possible news >> group interface. During my hunt I bumped into several other > >Yes, this list (or forum) _does_ have a news interface. > >> out on exactly the same hunt. In fact it went so far that I am in the >> middle of the process of creating a alt.permaculture or >> alt.sustainable.permaculture (There already is a > >Possibly a good idea to create alt.permaculture, though it may get >spammed enought to discourage active participation by good contributors. >This list can be made spamproof - said users and their posts can be >permanently deleted/locked out. > >> alt.sustainable.agriculture group as I'm sure most of you know) But now >> I am at a loss since there already is one active permaculture list with >> a newsgroup interface. > >This is that list. > >> I have taken some hours to consider this and my conclusion is to ask you >> that are visiting this news server what to do. > >I'd suggest sticking with this list for the long haul. Alt.permaculture >may be a good idea too. > >> I don't mean to put anyone or anything down but you seem to be a little >> hard to find. Since most people use their ISP's news server to visit >> newsgroups they look at the groups they offer, some might even go to >> deja news and look there and if they don't find what they are looking >> for they don't think it can be found. So maybe a alt.permaculture, that > >You just have to know the name of our news server in order to access this >list, and it is: news://franklin.oit.unc.edu. > >Here's complete info on our PC forum: > >Usage Guide For the Natural Agriculture >Heirarchy of Discussion Forums at MetaLab >|+| >Lawrence F. London, Jr., site administrator >london@metalab.unc.edu, llondon@bellsouth.net >http://metalab.unc.edu/london >Email me if you have questions, corrections, requests or suggestions >This document is located at: http://metalb.unc.edu/london/forumdoc.txt >|+| >The forum server is intelligent and flexible and tolerates a wide >range of input in case you forget access details. >|+| >Subscribers will be able to post, crosspost and read using any >method of access: the Web, email or news; non-subscribers will be able >to read but not post. >|+| >The system is set to archive permanently ALL posts to the list >whether they are posted via news, the Website or email. >|+| >Any spam posted will result in the offending party being locked out >of the forum and all their messages will be purged from the archive. >______ > >ACCESS >______ > >Access by email: >---------------- >general information is available at: >http://metalab.unc.edu/london/forumdoc.txt > >subscribe/unsubscribe via email: >send email to lyris@franklin.oit.unc.edu >- in text of message include the following words: >subscribe (or unsubscribe) >Ex.: subscribe permaculture > >(posting to the list subscribers) >send email to: @franklin.oit.unc.edu >Ex.: permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu > >Access on the Web: >------------------ >go to this URL: >http://franklin.oit.unc.edu >go to "Official SunSITE Contributor Lists" >then go to: >"Topics Related to Natural Agriculture" >then go to the forum of your choice > >or go to this URL: >------------------ > >permaculture forum (permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu): >http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=permaculture&text_mode=0 > >or go to this URL to view all the forums available in the Natural >Agriculture heirarchy: >http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?site=sunsite-contrib&page=topi c&topic=na >tural-agriculture&text_mode=0 > >Here you can subscribe/unsubscribe, change your user options (i.e. tell >the list not to send you any email, >that you prefer to access the forum via the Web or as a newsgroup), >read, post, search > >Access by newsgroup: >-------------------- >Method 1 using your news reader: >- >Access via Usenet news can be had by adding this news server name to >your list >of news servers in your news reader, or make it your default server: >franklin.oit.unc.edu >[in Netscape this is easy - just click on "file", then "open news host", >then type in franklin.oit.unc.edu in the dialog box]. >In Free Agent you can only have one news server (host) but you can, >of course, run multiple copies of Free Agent [just install >it into separate folders, each with a different name and different >desktop icon]. Connect with the news server and download the list of >newsgroups >available and subscribe to the ones that interest you. > >Method 2 using your Web browser [+ news reader]: >- >go to this URL: >news://franklin.oit.unc.edu >and download the list of newsgroups available and subscribe to the ones >that interest you >or go to this URL: >news://franklin.oit.unc.edu/put name of forum (= newsgroup, = mailing >list) here >to get to individual forums directly for reading and/or posting (if >you're subscribed) > >==================================== >URLs for access via the Web and news >==================================== > >http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?site=sunsite-contrib&page=topi c&topic=na >tural-agriculture&text_mode=0 >Natural Agriculture heirarchy of forums ><> >http://metalab.unc.edu/london/forumdoc.txt >USAGE: How to access the forums ><> >Access via the Web: >------------------- >permaculture forum >http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=permaculture&text_mode=0 > >Access as a newsgroup: >---------------------- >news://franklin.oit.unc.edu >Go to server/download list of groups > >permaculture forum >news://franklin.oit.unc.edu/permaculture >(type this URL directly into the dialog box in your Web browser) > ><> ><> ><> > >> would show up on a lot of news servers around the world would be a good >> idea anyway, it wouldn't be a competitor to this group rather a boost. >> More people would find their way to a group or list, >> and the two could work for each other. there are some people ho have a >> natural aversion for mailing list and there are alot of persons that >> prefer newsgroups to mailing lists, i am aware of the fact that there >> are several lists out there but since this seems to be a active and >> healthy list I thought it was worth a try to get opinions from you. >> >> So what do you say good people? > >Alt.permaculture may be a good idea but this list has more features and >is more versatile .... and is spamproof ...._and_ archives everything posted >to the list for public retreival. > >> I see from an earlier posting to this group that some of you use ICQ I >> have ICQ # 13078734 have e-mail aasnee@online.no and are registered at >> icq under the nick name norseman, if some of you would like to seek me >> out to discuss this proposal or other issues or just have a chat >> session, be my >> guest. > >I'll have to crank up my ICQ Chat program again and get back online - will >contact you there when I do. >I am dirtfarmer, ICQ # 27930345 >search ICQ for my info - >I haven't been online for months - don't know if my account is still >there. >We really ought to have a permaculture chat >room. Care to set one up on Mirabilis home page (the ICQ users homepage)? >What's the best version of ICQ to get at this time? ICQ 99b? or a later >version? What is the best site for downloading the software? > >> I do apologize for any unclearity due to bad syntax, grammar or >> misspelling, english is obviously not my natural tongue. > >You're doing just fine, not to worry. > >Permaculturally, > >Lawrence >permaculture list owner >natural agriculture site administrator > > >> -- >> Christer Ellingsen >> Norway >> aasnee@online.no >> ------------------------ >> Voice: + 47 73976196 >> Fax: +47 73975755 >> Cellular: +47 90147718 >> E-mail: aasnee@online.no >> ****************************************************************** >> Freedom is not in the finished carving but in the wood chips left >> on the floor. >> ****************************************************************** >> >> >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu >> > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: jez@monitor.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu > > --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Fri Apr 2 10:06:02 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id KAA10450 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:06:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 06:57:28 -0800 Subject: [permaculture] Re: helping out in Bolivia or Peru (fwd) From: "Jeremy Sharp" To: "permaculture" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 120 Howdo Keith say have you seen anything for Chiapas Mexico as we are on that track for winter permawork Sonoma Permagang ---------- >From: Keith Johnson >To: "permaculture" >Subject: [permaculture] Re: helping out in Bolivia or Peru (fwd) >Date: Wed, Mar 31, 1999, 6:59 AM > >Dana, >Here's some South and Central America Permaculture contacts (Sorry, no >links in Peru >that I'm aware of) from the Permaculture Activist's webpage, Global >Directory (see URL >at bottom of letter): > > Pc Allyu Verde > Klaus Lotz > Lot 2, Casilla, Cochabamba, > 5279, Bolivia > Ph: int+ (591) 0411 2605 > >Fadenza Lua (Moon Farm) > S.Q.S. 108, Bloco H, Apto. 305, > Brasilia, D.F. 70347 -080, Brasil > Ph/fax: int + 55 61 244 2218 > > Instituto Gaucho de Permacultura > Sitio Pe na Terra, Lomba Grande, > Novo > Hamburgo, Pe RS, 93 490 000, > Brazil > Ph/Fax: int+ (55) 51 596 11 14 > > Pc Institute of Brasilia > Maria Indindoli, Fazenda Lua > (Moon Farm) > S.Q.S. 108, Bloco H, Apto. 305, > Brasilia, D.F. 70347 - 080, Brazil > Ph/Fax: int + (55) 61 244 2218 > > Instituto de Permacultura da Bahia > Marsha Hanzi > Condominio Aguas Finas QE L4, > Lauro de Freitas, > Bahia, CEP 42700-000, Brazil > Ph: int+ (55) 713 78 2676 Fax: > int+ (55) 713 78 1520 > Email: permaba@provider.com.br > > Permacultura America Latina > Amad Ali Sharif > Casilla 17-07-9833, Quito, > Ecuador > Ph: int+ (593) 256 8661 > > Fundacion Golondrinas (Cerro > Golondrinas > Cloudforest Conservation Project) > Centro Productivo y Educativo > Agroforestal > in Guallupe / La Carolina, Western > Slopes of the Andes > Piet Sabbe or Eliza Manteca > Onate, Calle Isabel La Catolica > 1559, Quito, Ecuador. > Ph: int+ (590) 2 22 6602 Fax: int > + (593) 2 22 2390 > > Central America > > Fundacion Augusto C Sandino > (FACS) > Apdo. 2458, Managua 5, > Nicaragua > Ph: int+ (505) 2 74773 & 505 2 > 75706 Fax: int+(505) 2 675670 > facs@nicarao.apc.org > > CESTA > Carlos Canos & Silva Flores > Apdo 3065,Calle PTE 316, San > Salvador, El Salvador > Ph: int+ (503) 225 6746 Fax: int+ > (503) 226 6903 > > Permacultura El Salvador > Juan Nelson Rojas > Apdo Postal 68, Centro di > Gobierno, San Salvador, El > Salvador > Ph/Fax: int+ (503) 260 888 > cebes@nicarao.apc.org > > > >Larry London wrote: > >> Can anyone help Dana out with PC in Bolivia? >> Reply to: dgunders@hotmail.com >> - >> http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden >> london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:31:13 PST >> From: Dana Gunders >> To: london@metalab.unc.edu >> Subject: helping out in Bolivia or Peru >> >> Hi there! >> I'm a girl who is travelling aroiund in Bolivia right now and would love >> to check out some permaculture sights either here or in Peru. I'm >> hoping to stay and help out for a few months. Could you direct me to >> any projects? >> >> Muchas gracias! >> Dana Gunders >> >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: keithdj@mindspring.com >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu > > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: jez@monitor.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu > > --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Fri Apr 2 12:06:52 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id MAA12218 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:06:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: X-Sender: beauty@pop.batnet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 09:03:36 -0800 To: "permaculture" From: Loren Davidson Subject: [permaculture] Re: Compost Awareness Week May 2-8 (fwd) List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 121 At 10:31 PM 4/1/99 -0500, Larry London wrote: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:25:35 -0800 >From: Pat Jones >Dear Friend of Compost and Composting: >I would like to encourage you to participate in the upcoming >National Composting Awareness Week," May 2-8, 1999. (...) ...because a rind is a terrible thing to waste. :) Nice to see compost getting its own week.... Loren -- Loren Davidson Permaculturist, poet, philosopher loren@wombat.net http://www.batnet.com/beauty/ "Follow your dreams. Make your wishes. Create the future. And above all, believe in yourself." -- J. Michael Straczynski --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Fri Apr 2 15:49:05 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id PAA16274 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:49:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:36:57 -0500 From: Kelley MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: OT: Does anyone know of a source of orchard mason bees? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 122 Do they produce honey? Or just pollinate? Thanks for all of the explanations. Kelley Guy Clark wrote: > Kelley- > The Orchard Mason Bee is a bee that is tons more efficient in pollinating > than the honey bee. Their scientific name is Osmia Lingaria Propinqua > Cresson and it is native to the U.S. and Canada West of the Rockies; East > of the Rockies its cousin, Osmia Lingaria Lingaria Say is widespread. There > is a wonderfully informative and fun book called The Orchard Mason Bee: The > Life History, Biology, Propagation and Use of a Truly Benevolent and > Beneficial Insect by Brian L. Griffin. They are amazing pollinators, "Greg > Dickman, in his brochure, Orchard Bees", states that the Orchard Mason > visits more blossoms each day than the honey bee, and pollinates a much > higher percentage of those blooms visited. He states that the honey bee > visits an average seven hundred blooms daily. It pollinates only thirty of > them, a mere five percent success rate. He further claims that our Orchard > Mason pollinates 1600 flowers per day, a pollination success rate of > ninety-five to ninety-nine percent." A fully scientific study has not been > done, but there is little doubt that the Orchard Mason be is an extremely > efficient pollinator. And they begin much earlier in the spring. > Namaste', > Guy Clark > > --- > You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: amaranth@uninets.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Fri Apr 2 19:07:55 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id TAA19646 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:07:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 20:03:23 -0300 From: Marsha Hanzi MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: helping out in Bolivia or Peru (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 123 Dana-- If you go to the region of the Alto Beni, look for projects supported by the SACTES ( by the German government). They are sponsoring projects of agroforests for small farmers under the orientation or Ernst Gotsch, which are really interesting... Marsha Hanzi Instituto de Permacultura da Bahia Brazil > At 09:33 PM 3/27/99 -0500, Larry London wrote: > > > >Can anyone help Dana out with PC in Bolivia? > >Reply to: dgunders@hotmail.com > >- > >http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden > >london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:31:13 PST > >From: Dana Gunders > >To: london@metalab.unc.edu > >Subject: helping out in Bolivia or Peru > > > >Hi there! > >I'm a girl who is travelling aroiund in Bolivia right now and would love > >to check out some permaculture sights either here or in Peru. I'm > >hoping to stay and help out for a few months. Could you direct me to > >any projects? > > > >Muchas gracias! > >Dana Gunders --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Fri Apr 2 19:27:18 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id TAA20350 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:27:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 19:15:03 -0500 From: Kelley MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: Where are those bees, again? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 124 Here are two sources for the orchard mason bee my hubby found from his beekeeper's course info: Knox Cellars 1607 Knox Ave. Bellingham, WA 98335 (360)733-3283 Entomo-logic 9807 NE 140th St Bothell, WA 98100 FX (206)820-8037 For list of suppliers... http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/ipm/insects/pollinat/supply.htm Kelley PS Am I supposed to post an intro of sorts? Or do you want to get to know me as we go along? :-) --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Fri Apr 2 19:29:18 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id TAA20360 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:29:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 19:30:28 -0500 From: Kevin Topek Reply-To: "permaculture" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: OT: Does anyone know of a source of orchard mason bees? References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5BB85D8DB425D80AA9533BF7" List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 125 --------------5BB85D8DB425D80AA9533BF7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bees produce honey. European varieties of the honeybee, Apis mellifera produce excess amounts of honey with regard to their future need. They are also usually not as agressive as most other bee species. Orchard mason bees probably build small wax cells and store their honey comparmentalized, like Grecian urns. It would be hard to harvest and there would not be an excessive amount. Pollination can not be underestimated in its effect on fruit production for a whole host of plants. I recall how the carpenter bees living in the old wood garage behind my house would pollinate my huge luffa framework. I gave away luffa sponges for almost a decade. Happy Trails, to you... Kevin Topek --------------5BB85D8DB425D80AA9533BF7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit     Bees produce honey. European varieties of the honeybee, Apis mellifera produce excess amounts of honey with regard to their future need. They are also usually not as agressive as most other bee species.

    Orchard mason bees probably build small wax cells and store their honey comparmentalized, like Grecian urns. It would be hard to harvest and there would not be an excessive amount.

    Pollination can not be underestimated in its effect on fruit production for a whole host of plants. I recall how the carpenter bees living in the old wood garage behind my house would pollinate my huge luffa framework. I gave away luffa sponges for almost a decade.

Happy Trails, to you...
Kevin Topek --------------5BB85D8DB425D80AA9533BF7-- --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Fri Apr 2 21:02:05 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id VAA21651 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:02:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 03:58:18 +0200 From: Christer Ellingsen X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: permaculture Subject: [permaculture] Development:alt.permaculture Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "permaculture" List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 126 This propasal was sent to alt.config minutes ago, comments would be happily accepted. After a period of apx. one week of discussion in alt.config a new group control message will be sent out by me, (provided that the proposal not should meet resistance of some own known reason) and the new group will be created.. The proposal: This proposal is to create a usenet newsgroup for discussion of Permaculture and related topics. For your newsgroup file: alt.permaculture Discussion on permaculture and related topics. Charter: This newsgroup is for discussion on Permaculture and all aspects of the permaculture lifestyle. A friendly climate in the the spirit of permaculture and a sustainable lifestyle should be sought after. Trading and commercial posts are discouraged but permitted if in moderation and directly related to the topic of the newsgroup. Political posts beyond the scope of permaculture, binaries and encrypted messages are considered off topic and should not be posted to the news group. Justification: There are a lot of information and communication on Permaculture on the internet today, but there are no news group on the subject and the on going communication seems to be scattered all over the net. There are several mailing lists on the subject. to limit the scope of this justification we will take a closer look at one excisting community of mailinglists. http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?site=sunsite-contrib&page=topic&topic=natural-agriculture&text_mode=0 Carries a community of 14 mailinglists related to permaculture among them one named permaculture. On request the owner (Lawrence F. London jr.) of these lists provided these stats for the permaculture list, and i quote: -snip- "about stats for this PC forum: looks like in excess of 276 articles posted between 1-1-99 and 4-1-99 However this is only a drop in the bucket as this incarnation of our PC list is on its third server - the number of articles posted from 1-1-99 back to the beginning of the list around 1993-1994 would probably exceed 1500-1800. " a search on deja-news on permaculture in messages returns this result: "Messages -snip- of exactly 125 matches for search permaculture" these messages are scattered over 18 groups with closely or more distant relation to permaculture, but none of them dedicated to permaculture as far as i can see. When it comes to web sites, yahoo has a own category dedicated to permaculture. Alta Vista returns: "AltaVista found 56190 Web pages for you" on a search with the keyword Permaculture. Conclusion: These examples are just to show a tip of the iceberg of the on going communication on permaculture. But these examples and the fact that permaculture is not just a topic that represent a hobby, but is a lifestyle and profession to many people around the world, people who would be interested in keeping a forum for discussion on their lifestyle alive, serve to prove that a alt.permaculture would be a active group and the fact that permaculture involves several topics might involve the possibility of several other sub groups in the future. -- Christer Ellingsen -- Christer Ellingsen Mellom Barken og veien Web design og internett konsult. Peel and discover Web design, hosting and Internet consulting services ------------------------------------------------------------------ Skansenv. 1 N-7563 Malvik Norway ------------------------ Voice: + 47 73976196 Fax: +47 73975755 Cellular: +47 90147718 E-mail: aasnee@online.no ****************************************************************** Freedom is not in the finished carving but in the wood chips left on the floor. ****************************************************************** --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Fri Apr 2 22:01:21 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id WAA22308 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:01:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Conversation with last message Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "permaculture" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Uwe Bruenjes" Subject: [permaculture] Re: helping out in Bolivia or Peru (fwd) Date: Fri, 02 Apr 99 20:39:23 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id WAA22308 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 127 Hi Marsha, does Ernst have an e-mail address? Or in the last case, do you know his snail mail address? Uwe ---------- > Dana-- If you go to the region of the Alto Beni, look for projects supported by > the > SACTES ( by the German government). They are sponsoring projects of > agroforests for > small farmers under the orientation or Ernst Gotsch, which are really > interesting... > > Marsha Hanzi > Instituto de Permacultura da Bahia > Brazil --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Fri Apr 2 23:12:47 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id XAA22985 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 23:12:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 23:05:56 -0500 From: gardenbetty@earthlink.net Reply-To: "permaculture" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: OT: Does anyone know of a source of orchard mason bees? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net id UAA24205 List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id XAA22985 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 128 Osmia family bees, as opposed to Apis family bees, do not produce honey. They are solitary bees that do not hive or form social groups or tend their young. They emerge from their holes in early spring, the females mate, line those holes with pollen, lay eggs in the pollen, "mason" up the hole with mud, then die. The males do not pollinate very well, and die after they mate. Osmia family bees are excellent orchard pollinators because they emerge at the same time as the fruit trees come into bloom. They are also excellent pollinators because it is their biological imperative to collect as much pollen as they can to feed the next generation. dawn Kevin Topek wrote: > > Bees produce honey. European varieties of the honeybee, Apis > mellifera produce excess amounts of honey with regard to their future > need. They are also usually not as agressive as most other bee > species. > > Orchard mason bees probably build small wax cells and store their > honey comparmentalized, like Grecian urns. It would be hard to harvest > and there would not be an excessive amount. > > Pollination can not be underestimated in its effect on fruit > production for a whole host of plants. I recall how the carpenter bees > living in the old wood garage behind my house would pollinate my huge > luffa framework. I gave away luffa sponges for almost a decade. > > Happy Trails, to you... > Kevin Topek -- dawn aka gardenbetty We will be known by the tracks we leave behind... —Dakota proverb --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Sat Apr 3 07:03:16 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id HAA27562 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 07:03:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 06:51:07 -0500 From: Kelley MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: OT: Does anyone know of a source of orchard mason bees? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 129 Do these bees do well in northern New England? Kelley gardenbetty@earthlink.net wrote: > Osmia family bees, as opposed to Apis family bees, do not produce honey. They > are solitary bees that do not hive or form social groups or tend their young. > They emerge from their holes in early spring, the females mate, line those > holes with pollen, lay eggs in the pollen, "mason" up the hole with mud, then > die. The males do not pollinate very well, and die after they mate. Osmia > family bees are excellent orchard pollinators because they emerge at the same > time as the fruit trees come into bloom. They are also excellent pollinators > because it is their biological imperative to collect as much pollen as they > can to feed the next generation. > > dawn > --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Sat Apr 3 08:57:21 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id IAA28213 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:57:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Claude Genest" To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: Development:alt.permaculture Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:54:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 130 Christer, Boy, you sure move fast, my motivated friend !! Thanks again ! A little comment re: commercail posts : I hope I can find a whole slew of PC designers hawking their talents !! -----Original Message----- From: Christer Ellingsen Newsgroups: permaculture To: permaculture Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 8:55 PM Subject: [permaculture] Development:alt.permaculture >This propasal was sent to alt.config minutes ago, comments would be >happily accepted. >After a period of apx. one week of discussion in alt.config a new group >control message will be sent out by me, (provided that the proposal not >should meet resistance of some own known reason) and the new group will >be created.. > >The proposal: >This proposal is to create a usenet newsgroup for discussion of >Permaculture and related topics. > > >For your newsgroup file: >alt.permaculture Discussion on permaculture and related topics. > >Charter: >This newsgroup is for discussion on Permaculture and all aspects of the >permaculture lifestyle. A friendly climate in the the spirit of >permaculture and a sustainable lifestyle should be sought after. Trading > >and commercial posts are discouraged but permitted if in moderation and >directly related to the topic of the newsgroup. Political posts beyond >the scope of permaculture, binaries and encrypted messages are >considered off topic and should not be posted to the news group. > >Justification: > >There are a lot of information and communication on Permaculture on the >internet today, but there are no news group on the subject and the on >going communication seems to be scattered all over the net. > >There are several mailing lists on the subject. >to limit the scope of this justification we will take a closer look at >one excisting community of mailinglists. > > >http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?site=sunsite-contrib&page=topi c&topic=natural-agriculture&text_mode=0 > >Carries a community of 14 mailinglists related to permaculture among >them one named permaculture. >On request the owner (Lawrence F. London jr.) of these lists provided >these stats for the permaculture list, and i quote: >-snip- "about stats for this PC forum: >looks like in excess of 276 articles posted between >1-1-99 and 4-1-99 >However this is only a drop in the bucket as this incarnation of >our PC list is on its third server - the number of articles posted from >1-1-99 back to the beginning of the list around 1993-1994 would probably > >exceed 1500-1800. " > >a search on deja-news on permaculture in messages returns this result: >"Messages -snip- of exactly 125 matches for search permaculture" >these messages are scattered over 18 groups with closely or more distant > >relation to permaculture, but none of them dedicated to permaculture as >far as i can see. > >When it comes to web sites, yahoo has a own category dedicated to >permaculture. > >Alta Vista returns: "AltaVista found 56190 Web pages for you" on a >search with the keyword Permaculture. > >Conclusion: >These examples are just to show a tip of the iceberg of the on going >communication on permaculture. But these examples and the fact that >permaculture is not just a topic that represent a hobby, but is a >lifestyle and profession to many people around the world, people who >would be interested in keeping a forum for discussion on their lifestyle > >alive, serve to prove that a alt.permaculture would be a active group >and the fact that permaculture involves several topics might involve the > >possibility of several other sub groups in the future. > >-- >Christer Ellingsen > > > > > >-- >Christer Ellingsen > >Mellom Barken og veien >Web design og internett konsult. > >Peel and discover >Web design, hosting and Internet consulting services >------------------------------------------------------------------ >Skansenv. 1 >N-7563 Malvik >Norway >------------------------ >Voice: + 47 73976196 >Fax: +47 73975755 >Cellular: +47 90147718 >E-mail: aasnee@online.no >****************************************************************** >Freedom is not in the finished carving but in the wood chips left >on the floor. >****************************************************************** > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: genest@together.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu > > --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From dgunders@hotmail.com Sat Apr 3 10:41:13 1999 Received: from hotmail.com (f51.hotmail.com [207.82.250.62]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id KAA29189 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:41:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 32927 invoked by uid 0); 3 Apr 1999 15:34:26 -0000 Message-ID: <19990403153426.32926.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.114.107.145 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 03 Apr 1999 07:34:24 PST X-Originating-IP: [166.114.107.145] From: "Dana Gunders" To: pci@permaculture-inst.org, permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu, london@metalab.unc.edu Subject: Thanks for the help! Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 07:34:24 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 131 Dear Larry, Keith, Arina, Scott.. I just wanted to say thanks for the names and leads. I haven{t really heard from anyone yet, but i{m on my way today to a place outside of Cochabamba that is part of the Universal Pachamam Movement, which I think is connected to Klaus Lotz and permaculture...I{m not quite sure! In any case, thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I{ll keep you updated! Dana Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Sun Apr 4 12:49:41 1999 Received: from listserv.oit.unc.edu (listserv.oit.unc.edu [152.2.25.17]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA16296 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52661 "HELO localhost" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with SMTP id <165326-24733>; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:42:54 -0400 Received: from [200.38.239.66] ([200.38.239.66]:1488 "EHLO sol.ml.com.mx" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE[2]") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with ESMTP id <165254-24735>; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:42:35 -0400 Received: from SKYE by sol.ml.com.mx with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1460.8) id HSKJDAAD; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:49:57 -0600 Message-Id: <3706E598.7FA@tortuga.com> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 22:08:41 -0600 Reply-To: skye@tortuga.com Sender: owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu From: Skye To: permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Subject: New Format Permaculture Designers Course MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) X-Orcpt: rfc822;permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 132 New Format Permaculture Course The 72 hour, two-week residential format for the Permaculture Design Certificate course developed in Australia under a regime of generous social and employment condition contracts. It suited Australian work and lifestyle patterns. But it does not work well outside those conditions. USA, Germany and England have all had to develop different formats. Here in Mexico, we are finding the same experience. It is very difficult for Mexican people to have two weeks to attend a course. Financially and socially difficult. To make it easier for people to get their Design Certificate, we are now offering a new format. The first module is an eight-day (in Mexico a "week" is often spoken of as "ocho dias" -eight days) intensive, residential course. During this part the basic theory and technologies of Permaculture will be covered, using practical and creative teaching methods. The second phase involves the students returning home and undertaking the design component of the course from their own home base, and for a project that is directly relevant to them and their lives. In this time they will be supported through correspondence or email with the course teacher/tutor. This design work must be submitted for assessment prior to the issuing of the certificate. This format is more affordable, the design project is more directly relevant to the participantsand I believe the standard of work on the designs will be higher than normal (it certainly has to be better than the "substantial attendance" requirement of Australia that assures only that people attended, not that they actually learnt anything!). The first course to be offered using this format will be held in the tropical coffee lands and jungle of Tlapacoyan, Veracruz, Mexico - from April 24 to May 1. If you are interested in attending this unique PCD please contact myself directly, or the course convenor Arturo Farias on aadvetrav@compuserve.com.mx for more details. Other courses using this format are being scheduled now and will be advertised as dates become firm NEW FORMAT PCD FOR MEXICO (and USA) April 24 to May 1 Tlapacoyan, Veracruz, Mexico.. Convenor Arturo Farias, aadvetrav@compuserve.com.mx Teacher Skye, skye@tortuga.com Authorised by the Instituto de Permacultura de Mexico AC Dates April 24 to May 1 Cost of $650us includes transport from Mexico City, camping accommodation (on the bands of the Rio Alseseca), all meals, tuition, handout notes, follow-up design support and final assessment of design submissions. The Venue is a Camp in the Filo-Bobos ecological reserve near the town of Tlapacoyan, Veracruz. The surrounding area is subtropical with 1,500 mm of rain per year. Towards the mountains (1/2 hour away), rainfall exceeds 2,000 mm and vegetation is tropical gradually changing to cloud forest and then to temperate pine and oak forest. Towards the coast there is very little native vegetation, and there are mostly plantations of citrus, banana and coffee giving way to cattle ranches in the plains. At the beach, there are mangrove swamps. Terrain near the camp includes the valley below where two rivers join, steep cliffs and hills. Inland, terrain becomes steeper and first increasingly wet, and then drier up to the dessert plains towards Perote. Agriculture in the area is primarily banana, coffee and citrus, grown in a variety of ways. There are examples of polycultures and organic agriculture. Nearby we have access to banana-coffee organic polycultures, and a another plantation that is not organic but that combines fruit trees, coffee, bananas and native plants gradually blending into a beautiful secondary tropical forest. And a government experimental station 20 minutes from the camp, there are examples of legume trees and coffee polycultures, as well as an aquaculture system. -- Skye - Apdo # 391, Patzcuaro, Michoacan, CP. 61600 México. fax (52) 01 (434) 24743 Profesor y diseñador en Permacultura Director del Instituto de Permacultura de México A.C. Talleres de desarrollo humano, planeación participativa y economía comunitaria. From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Sun Apr 4 12:50:21 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id MAA16301 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:50:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 22:08:41 -0600 Reply-To: "permaculture" From: Skye To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] New Format Permaculture Designers Course MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Orcpt: rfc822;permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id MAA16301 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 133 New Format Permaculture Course The 72 hour, two-week residential format for the Permaculture Design Certificate course developed in Australia under a regime of generous social and employment condition contracts. It suited Australian work and lifestyle patterns. But it does not work well outside those conditions. USA, Germany and England have all had to develop different formats. Here in Mexico, we are finding the same experience. It is very difficult for Mexican people to have two weeks to attend a course. Financially and socially difficult. To make it easier for people to get their Design Certificate, we are now offering a new format. The first module is an eight-day (in Mexico a "week" is often spoken of as "ocho dias" -eight days) intensive, residential course. During this part the basic theory and technologies of Permaculture will be covered, using practical and creative teaching methods. The second phase involves the students returning home and undertaking the design component of the course from their own home base, and for a project that is directly relevant to them and their lives. In this time they will be supported through correspondence or email with the course teacher/tutor. This design work must be submitted for assessment prior to the issuing of the certificate. This format is more affordable, the design project is more directly relevant to the participantsand I believe the standard of work on the designs will be higher than normal (it certainly has to be better than the "substantial attendance" requirement of Australia that assures only that people attended, not that they actually learnt anything!). The first course to be offered using this format will be held in the tropical coffee lands and jungle of Tlapacoyan, Veracruz, Mexico - from April 24 to May 1. If you are interested in attending this unique PCD please contact myself directly, or the course convenor Arturo Farias on aadvetrav@compuserve.com.mx for more details. Other courses using this format are being scheduled now and will be advertised as dates become firm NEW FORMAT PCD FOR MEXICO (and USA) April 24 to May 1 Tlapacoyan, Veracruz, Mexico.. Convenor Arturo Farias, aadvetrav@compuserve.com.mx Teacher Skye, skye@tortuga.com Authorised by the Instituto de Permacultura de Mexico AC Dates April 24 to May 1 Cost of $650us includes transport from Mexico City, camping accommodation (on the bands of the Rio Alseseca), all meals, tuition, handout notes, follow-up design support and final assessment of design submissions. The Venue is a Camp in the Filo-Bobos ecological reserve near the town of Tlapacoyan, Veracruz. The surrounding area is subtropical with 1,500 mm of rain per year. Towards the mountains (1/2 hour away), rainfall exceeds 2,000 mm and vegetation is tropical gradually changing to cloud forest and then to temperate pine and oak forest. Towards the coast there is very little native vegetation, and there are mostly plantations of citrus, banana and coffee giving way to cattle ranches in the plains. At the beach, there are mangrove swamps. Terrain near the camp includes the valley below where two rivers join, steep cliffs and hills. Inland, terrain becomes steeper and first increasingly wet, and then drier up to the dessert plains towards Perote. Agriculture in the area is primarily banana, coffee and citrus, grown in a variety of ways. There are examples of polycultures and organic agriculture. Nearby we have access to banana-coffee organic polycultures, and a another plantation that is not organic but that combines fruit trees, coffee, bananas and native plants gradually blending into a beautiful secondary tropical forest. And a government experimental station 20 minutes from the camp, there are examples of legume trees and coffee polycultures, as well as an aquaculture system. -- Skye - Apdo # 391, Patzcuaro, Michoacan, CP. 61600 México. fax (52) 01 (434) 24743 Profesor y diseñador en Permacultura Director del Instituto de Permacultura de México A.C. Talleres de desarrollo humano, planeación participativa y economía comunitaria. --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Apr 4 12:32:14 1999 -0400 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA16170 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13446 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA04182; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 11:21:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04133 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 11:20:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool027-max13.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.4.27]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA25551; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990403195134.0082e860@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 19:51:34 -0700 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: Fred Chambers Subject: S.Calif Permaculture Work Party (4/9-11/99) In-Reply-To: <37050279.43BDFA5@digisys.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 134 Hello, Last weekend's (March 28) Polyculture Windbreak Workshop on pruning and garden microclimates was too fun. It was so beautiful and the crowd that turned out had so much fun working with the good people of the Permaculture Institute of Southern California that we want to go back, and you're invited! Date: Friday-Sunday, April 9-11, 1999 Title: Permaculture Work Party Location: Laganza Farms, Aguanga, Ca Eos Institute's Permaculture Organic(CCOF)/Biodynamic field-site (near Temecula, CA.) Why: Several of the beautiful and charming attendees from the Laganza workshop expressed a desire to return for a work party so, we will be returning to prune (threaten) the fruit trees and possibly do some other light tasks to benefit the farm. Come for one day, or all three! Bring: Tools, gloves, a sleeping bag, food, drinks, drums, or other instruments, and any other fun items you feel are appropriate and applicable (Feel free to pass this info on to stout-hearted, like-minded people.) If you still have questions, contact: Camille (626) 335-5210 or Jen (909) 594-7069 __________________________________________ Directions to the farm: Traveling SOUTH on route 15, (from Elsinore or Corona) or Route 215 (From riverside) to Temecula, take the exit after Rancho California, which is Route 79 South, turn toward the LEFT or Eastward direction, and after traveling about 20 minutes you will see a small Aguanga Store and US Post Office. Immediately after turn LEFT on Route 371 toward Indio. About 5-10 minutes up the road, on the right you will see a road marked Sorenson, take your NEXT RIGHT, which is Barbara Trail and go about one mile to your first intersection. Just before the intersection on the right there is a driveway and a sign to Laganza. turn here and proceed. P.S. If you go too far on route 371, you will see a sign to Riverside Estates (just over the crest of the hill) on your left. Turn back, Barbara Trail will be your FIRST LEFT If you see a casino on your right you have gone WAY too far. --end From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Mon Apr 5 07:02:25 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id HAA00609 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 07:44:31 -0300 From: Marsha Hanzi MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: New Format Permaculture Designers Course References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by svn.com.br id HAA20428 List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id HAA00609 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 135 The two-week course is an intense experience, and in one sense it is good to see the whole process through in one go, but we have observed that the multiplying effect is small. Making a design is relatively easy. But working with - managing - a complex system needs a lot more time and follow-up. I have also come to the conclusion that it is much more effective to work with a smaller number of students, over a period of time, than to give them the two-week immersion course and "set them loose on the world". They need feedback and opportunitites to raise questions and even to see the same material in different contexts. It is a spiral process. Of course most people don`t do just Permaculture. They do other courses, too, in related subjects, and it is the sum total of this "baggage" which counts... Marsha Skye escreveu: > New Format Permaculture Course > > The 72 hour, two-week residential format for the Permaculture Design > Certificate course developed in Australia under a regime of generous > social and employment condition contracts. It suited Australian work and > lifestyle patterns. > > But it does not work well outside those conditions. USA, Germany and > England have all had to develop different formats. Here in Mexico, we > are finding the same experience. > > It is very difficult for Mexican people to have two weeks to attend a > course. Financially and socially difficult. > > To make it easier for people to get their Design Certificate, we are now > offering a new format. > > The first module is an eight-day (in Mexico a "week" is often spoken of > as "ocho dias" -eight days) intensive, residential course. During this > part the basic theory and technologies of Permaculture will be covered, > using practical and creative teaching methods. The second phase involves > the students returning home and undertaking the design component of the > course from their own home base, and for a project that is directly > relevant to them and their lives. In this time they will be supported > through correspondence or email with the course teacher/tutor. This > design work must be submitted for assessment prior to the issuing of the > certificate. > > This format is more affordable, the design project is more directly > relevant to the participantsand I believe the standard of work on the > designs will be higher than normal (it certainly has to be better than > the "substantial attendance" requirement of Australia that assures only > that people attended, not that they actually learnt anything!). > > The first course to be offered using this format will be held in the > tropical coffee lands and jungle of Tlapacoyan, Veracruz, Mexico - from > April 24 to May 1. If you are interested in attending this unique PCD > please contact myself directly, or the course convenor Arturo Farias on > aadvetrav@compuserve.com.mx for more details. > > Other courses using this format are being scheduled now and will be > advertised as dates become firm > > NEW FORMAT PCD FOR MEXICO (and USA) > April 24 to May 1 > Tlapacoyan, Veracruz, Mexico.. > > Convenor Arturo Farias, aadvetrav@compuserve.com.mx > Teacher Skye, skye@tortuga.com > Authorised by the Instituto de Permacultura de Mexico AC > Dates April 24 to May 1 > Cost of $650us includes transport from Mexico City, camping > accommodation (on the bands of the Rio Alseseca), all meals, tuition, > handout notes, follow-up design support and final assessment of design > submissions. > > The Venue is a Camp in the Filo-Bobos ecological reserve near the town > of Tlapacoyan, Veracruz. The surrounding area is subtropical with 1,500 > mm of rain per year. Towards the mountains (1/2 hour away), rainfall > exceeds 2,000 mm and vegetation is tropical gradually changing to cloud > forest and then to temperate pine and oak forest. Towards the coast > there is very little native vegetation, and there are mostly plantations > of citrus, banana and coffee giving way to cattle ranches in the plains. > At the beach, there are mangrove swamps. Terrain near the camp includes > the valley below where two rivers join, steep cliffs and hills. Inland, > terrain becomes steeper and first increasingly wet, and then drier up to > the dessert plains towards Perote. > > Agriculture in the area is primarily banana, coffee and citrus, grown in > a variety of ways. There are examples of polycultures and organic > agriculture. Nearby we have access to banana-coffee organic > polycultures, and a another plantation that is not organic but that > combines fruit trees, coffee, bananas and native plants gradually > blending into a beautiful secondary tropical forest. And a government > experimental station 20 minutes from the camp, there are examples of > legume trees and coffee polycultures, as well as an aquaculture system. > > -- > Skye - Apdo # 391, Patzcuaro, Michoacan, CP. 61600 México. > fax (52) 01 (434) 24743 > Profesor y diseñador en Permacultura > Director del Instituto de Permacultura de México A.C. > Talleres de desarrollo humano, planeación participativa y > economía comunitaria. > > --- > You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: hanzibra@svn.com.br > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75849W@franklin.oit.unc.edu --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Apr 5 12:26:25 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA05301 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA02120 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:36:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02090 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool003-max3.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.2.3]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA03089 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990405073419.008f0190@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 07:34:19 -0700 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: Fred Chambers Subject: S.Calif Permaculture Work Party (4/9-11/99) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 136 Hello, Last weekend's (March 28) Polyculture Windbreak Workshop on pruning and garden microclimates was too fun. It was so beautiful and the crowd that turned out had so much fun working with the good people of the Permaculture Institute of Southern California that we want to go back, and you're invited! Date: Friday-Sunday, April 9-11, 1999 Title: Permaculture Work Party Location: Laganza Farms, Aguanga, Ca Eos Institute's Permaculture Organic(CCOF)/Biodynamic field-site (near Temecula, CA.) Why: Several of the beautiful and charming attendees from the Laganza workshop expressed a desire to return for a work party so, we will be returning to prune (threaten) the fruit trees and possibly do some other light tasks to benefit the farm. Come for one day, or all three! Bring: Tools, gloves, a sleeping bag, food, drinks, drums, or other instruments, and any other fun items you feel are appropriate and applicable (Feel free to pass this info on to stout-hearted, like-minded people.) If you still have questions, contact: Camille (626) 335-5210 or Jen (909) 594-7069 __________________________________________ Directions to the farm: Traveling SOUTH on route 15, (from Elsinore or Corona) or Route 215 (From riverside) to Temecula, take the exit after Rancho California, which is Route 79 South, turn toward the LEFT or Eastward direction, and after traveling about 20 minutes you will see a small Aguanga Store and US Post Office. Immediately after turn LEFT on Route 371 toward Indio. About 5-10 minutes up the road, on the right you will see a road marked Sorenson, take your NEXT RIGHT, which is Barbara Trail and go about one mile to your first intersection. Just before the intersection on the right there is a driveway and a sign to Laganza. turn here and proceed. P.S. If you go too far on route 371, you will see a sign to Riverside Estates (just over the crest of the hill) on your left. Turn back, Barbara Trail will be your FIRST LEFT If you see a casino on your right you have gone WAY too far. --end To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From bounce-permaculture-75156@franklin.oit.unc.edu Tue Apr 6 01:42:55 1999 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id BAA23187 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:42:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 10:14:19 -0400 From: Keith Johnson Organization: The Permaculture Activist/Culture's Edge/Patterns for Abundance: http://metalab.unc.edu/pc-activist MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "permaculture" Subject: [permaculture] Re: helping out in Bolivia or Peru (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "permaculture" Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 137 Jeremy, et al. Here's what I've got for Mexico. If you have other addresses for us (Mike must have a few. Tell him to write or call, eh?) we can add them to our website list. N.W. Mexican PC Institute Jose & Alejandro Hotel American Colonial, Guaymas , Sonora, Mexico Pc de Mexico/Mexico City Blanca Domingues Apdo Postal #21, 140 Mexico City, 04000 D, Mexico Instituto of Permaculture Integral De Mexico Skye and Marcela Andre Lopez San Rafael #8, San juan De Dios, San Miguel de Allende, GTO 37700 Ph: int+ 52 415 22859 Fax: int+ 52 415 27191 Email: uvmsma@vnisono,ciateg,mx Mexican PC Keith Burnett APDO 27 San Miguel de Allende, GTO 37700, Mexico Ph: int+ (52) 415 21598Fax: int+ (52) 415 20026 New Moon Foundation Valerie Nadeau Apdo 1296, Oaxaca, OAX 68000, Mexico Ph/Fax: int+ (52) 951 7 5755