In a message dated 7/22/99 5:45:39 PM, pci@permaculture-inst.org writes: <<Which was pirated from Ruth Stout, which was pirated from ..... Scott Pittman Permaculture Institute, USA PO Box 3702, Pojoaque, NM 87501 US phone 505.455.0270>> Yes neither Bill nor New Alchemy were good at saying where they learn things. they like to take the credit Dan