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Re: GBlist: environmental windows



John: Thank you for your excellent commentary. I will have to review it in
greater depth to see which of your specific comments may be incorporated
into our R-20 prototype window. Perhaps this effort can be a team effort
(with some of the best minds in the field) and any people with constructive 
comments and practical suggestions will be given credit once the actual 
fabrication goes ahead. No guarantees, but my best effort. Wouldn't it be
wonderful if the meeting of minds on the internet can lead to a practical
REAL WORLD development that would be the leading edge?
_________________________________________________________
Jorg Ostrowski,  M. Arch. A.S. (MIT), B. Arch. (Toronto), Ecotect 
-  in full-time professional practice since 1976 (Straw Bale since 1978),    
   environmental/architectural design, ecological planning,  consulting   
   on sustainable  buildings/communities. Lectures, seminars, workshops.
   3 demonstration projects in Canada, +80,000 visitors
 - living a conserver lifestyle & working in a sustainable home and office
ACE, ARE, ACT, ASH-Incs., Phone: (403) 239-1882, Fax: (403) 547-2671
Web Site [under construction]: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jdo/ecotecture.htm
e-mail: <jdo@acs.ucalgary.ca>
______________________________________________________

On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, John Salmen wrote:
> 
> (I noticed that the conversation has progressed since I began this but
> what the heck - It takes me a while to catch up)
> 
> I'm sorry if I gave any offense - I did not intend to. I assumed Jorg
> was referring to aluminum clad windows which is the most popular Wilmar
> and similar manuf. line of windows. As one might suspect I am not a fan
> of claddings and need to be convinced that maintenance issues cannot be
> adequately addressed without putting two materials together with all
> kinds of gaskets, sealers and binders and additives to compensate for
> radically different expansion capacities or difficulties of design.
> 
> There are a large host of issues here
> REQUIREMENTS FOR EXT. MAINTENANCE: The usage of aluminum and chlorine
> based plastics or benzene polymers (vinyl) for the purposes of
> protecting the exterior of a wood window seems extreme or wasteful. Not
> just
> the material itself but the process of window. manuf. itself becomes
> overly complicated.
> - low voc paints are not providing the ext. protection that previous
> finishes could and in the case of latex actually can entrap moisture and
> compromise the longevity of ext. wood usage.
> - advances in making windows air and moisture tight (side and face
> gaskets, etc) are preventing air movement around a window and keeping
> moisture in contact with wood.
> - surface or face mounting of windows rather than traditional recess put
> the wood elements in more direct exposure to the elements.
> 
> The above comments bring up the question for me about the general
> current suitability of wood as a material for windows (a difficult
> question for me as we have used nothing but wood windows in our
> buildings but then we have a lot of control over both their manufacture
> and placement). 
> 
> Wood has long represented some of the green values of alternative or
> sustainable building efforts and as a visible element in a home it has
> been a 'natural' choice. How natural though is a product soaked in a
> solvent base containing fungicides and insecticides. 
> 
> Despite Jorg's warranty that this is not a serious issue, similar dip
> treatment of wood was considered a serious enough issue to be banned for
> import by the EEC and was the original motivation for us to develop
> alternative wood sources (not that long ago most framing and finishing
> materials in N.A. were treated with antifungal agents.) I don't think
> this is a 'its not a perfect world' issue as I mentioned previously
> Willmar for one will forego the treatment at no extra cost - I do think
> it is an issue that such information is not made explicit and I think it
> is a serious issue for the increasing number of people that are
> chemically sensitive and are making what they assume to be safe choices.
> 
> I was not aware that treatment was a CSA requirement for approval. I am
> aware that the only Canadian building code requirements concerning
> windows are based in mechanical performance and that a large number of
> windows and window components are manufactured and exported without
> treatment.
> 
> I would like to comment on alternatives but will save it for another
> post.
> 
> John Salmen
> TERRAIN E.D.S
> 
> 
> Jorg D. Ostrowski wrote:
> > 
> > John: Sorry, we avoid the use of aluminum at ALL POSSIBLE cost due to
> > its
> > caustic effect on the environment during manufacturing.Instead we use
> > Willguard
> > prepainted finish that gives a 10-12 year waranty against maintenance.
> > We
> > have investigated the specific fungicides used to preserve the wood,
> > amounts used, outgassing characteristics and their effect on
> > health and have determined this is NOT to be a serious issue. If we
> > were
> > to wait for the perfect world, no project would be built or nothing
> > would
> > get done. This applies to every concept, feature, idea, product,
> > specification and person.
> > 
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST <www.crest.org>
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> ______________________________________________________________________
> 

______________________________________________________________________
This greenbuilding dialogue is sponsored by CREST <www.crest.org>
Environmental Building News <www.ebuild.com> and Oikos <www.oikos.com>
For  instructions send  e-mail to  greenbuilding-request@crest.org.
______________________________________________________________________


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