==================================================================Date:Mon, 8 Jul 96 16:05:18 +0200From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, bmansur@oc.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.eduSubject: New mini-LIT MemberCc: zkulpa@lksu.ippt.gov.plA young guy with whom I have exchanged e-mails since some time onvarious topics is interested in joining our mini-LIT discussion circle. Ashort introduction by him is enclosed below. I think we may safely addthem to our circle. If there are no objections, please add his address toyour LIT mail aliases.Regards,-- Zenon_______________________________________________________________ Dr. Zenon Kulpa	|Center of Mechanics,	|	All civilizationsInstitute of Fundamental	|	become either spacefaringTechnological Research	|	or extinct.ul. Swietokrzyska 21	|00-049 Warszawa, POLAND	|	Carl Sagan______________________________|________________________________ tel ++48-22/261281 ext 279	fax ++48-22/269815URL http://www.ippt.gov.pl/~zkulpa_______________________________________________________________ >From pbakelaar@exit109.com Mon Jul 8 12:10:01 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jul1996 07:15:44 -0400>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0>Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset="us-ascii"> To:zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa) From: Philip Bakelaar<pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: Re: LIT>Content-Length: 1814>My name is Ben Bakelaar, and I am 15 years old. I currently live in NJ, inManahawkin, next to Long Beach Island. I moved here in November 95 fromLittle Falls, near Paterson, where I had lived for 10 years. I am going into10th grade. >I have had a love to read ever since I could, and even before that. At age10 I discovered sci-fi, then fantasy, and have read 100s of novels since,(and spent $100s in the process)! I am a good student in math & scienceand have always had a love for them. I am in all honor classes.>I wish to join LIT because I believe in the reality of moving into outer-space and the importance of the advancement of technology to that point. Ialso believe that although the goverment MAY be trying to do this,individual work is well rewarded. Being a part of LIT, I would hopefullyrecieve references from members to books on learning things such asquantum physics and other related matter. Also, I hope to host the LIT website, as well as (once I learn some stuff) be able to intelligentlyparticipate in conversation, something I NEED! I rarely have the chance tohave a highly technical discussion of sorts, and even if LIT doesn't havemany, it will be better than nothing! >:)>I guess that should do it.>Thanx Zenon for trying to get me in!>Ben==================================================================Date:Mon, 8 Jul 96 17:27:02 +0200From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, bmansur@oc.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.eduSubject: Re: LIT Members>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Mon Jul 8 17:20:01 1996 >Thats an almost exact copy of my list, thou I don't have<neill@foda.math.usu.edu>.>KellyAh, and the address <bmansur@oc.edu>is probably wrong or obsolete, as it produces the "unknown address" errorafter my postings. Do you have the same effect?-- Zenon==================================================================Date:Mon, 8 Jul 96 19:12:12 +0200From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, bmansur@oc.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.eduSubject: Re: New mini-LIT Member>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Mon Jul 8 17:23:11 1996 >Ok, I have added him to my list. Have you forwarded him copies of pastdiscusion?I have forwarded a sample from the recent discussion. If he wants, I canforward him more.>Address of the web sites (production <?> and developmental) and therest?He knows the old LIT site.I am afraid I am not up to date with your latest WWW-sites developments- can you send me (and him) the relevant URLs? (and the rest (?))BTW, are there plans to revive the old site, or are you working on thecompletely new one? And then, what with the old one -will it be dismantled eventually?-- Zenon==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 12:34:32 -0500To: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)From: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re:New mini-LIT MemberCc: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, bmansur@oc.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.eduAt 7:12 PM 7/8/96, Zenon Kulpa wrote:>>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Mon Jul 8 17:23:11 1996 >>Ok, I have added him to my list. Have you forwarded him copies of pastdiscusion?>I have forwarded a sample from the recent discussion. If he wants, I canforward him more.Ok, I have collections of the last couple months worth if you need them. >>Address of the web sites (production <?> and developmental) and therest?>He knows the old LIT site.>I am afraid I am not up to date with your latest WWW-sites developments- can you send me (and him) the relevant URLs? (and the rest (?))>BTW, are there plans to revive the old site, or are you working on thecompletely new one? And then, what with the old one ->will it be dismantled eventually?>-- ZenonLast I heard Dave W/S site will act like a prototype. When its finished itwill be copied into the old (sunsite) lit area. The new (DEVELOPMENT!) version is at:http://165.254.130.90/LIT/InterStellar/project/ I'm working on it as time permits. Unfortunatly I seem to be the only oneworking on it, and I don't have a lot of time. Kelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================================Date:Mon, 8 Jul 1996 18:25:21 GMTX-Sender:Lessa@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Mime-Version:1.0To: KellySt@aol.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com From: Rex & Timothy<Lessa@worldnet.att.net> Hi Kelly,We received your story, I guess it will take some time to read. I will tellyou what I think about it, after I read it, I'm not a fast reader, so it maytake a while.Greetings,Timothy & Rex===============================================================================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: "KellySt@aol.com"<KellySt@aol.com>, "hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu"	 <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>,"bmansur@oc.edu" <bmansur@oc.edu>,"T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "stevev@efn.org"<stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu> To:"zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl>, "rddesign@wolfenet.com"	 <rddesign@wolfenet.com>,"lparker@destin.gulfnet.com"	 <lparker@destin.gulfnet.com>,"DotarSojat@aol.com"	 <DotarSojat@aol.com>,"sl0c8@cc.usu.edu" <sl0c8@cc.usu.edu>,"MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU"<MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU> To:"101765.2200@compuserve.com" <101765.2200@compuserve.com>, "kgstar@most.fw.hac.com" <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>,"neill@foda.math.usu.edu" <neill@foda.math.usu.edu>,"'zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl'" <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl> Subject: RE: Newmini-LIT Member==================================================================Date:Mon, 8 Jul 1996 14:35:07 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0>BTW, are there plans to revive the old site, or are you working on thecompletely new one? And then, what with the old one ->will it be dismantled eventually?>-- ZenonCurrent plans are to use the site at my office as a "development" site andonce we get it to the point where it is a viable replacement for the oldsite, I will begin mirroring it at SunSITE. This will allow everyone here tomodify the pages on SunSITE without having to get accounts there. You'llreally be modifying it on another computer. I'd also like to expand LIT tohave a section for Interstellar travel (which we already have), a sectionfor in-system travel, and a section for earth and near-earth sciences.Kevin also has a few ideas about the future of LIT. Personally, I can't say Iagree with him, but if you'd like to share your ideas, Kevin...==================================================================Date:Mon, 8 Jul 1996 19:13:41 -0400X-Sender:pbakelaar@hiway1.exit109.comMime-Version: 1.0To: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39),KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl,stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl,rddesign@wolfenet.com, David@interworld.com,lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com, sl0c8@cc.usu.edu,MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,neill@foda.math.usu.eduFrom: Philip Bakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: Re: New mini-LITMember (A litte more info) Well, hello everyone. I just thought I would write a quick letter saying afew things.First off, I hope you all don't mind a young kid like me being part of yourgroup, but Ipromise I won't bother you.Secondly, if there is any way I can participate in this group, please let meknow. One of thefew things I can maybe help you out with is web site hosting. I mean, ifyou need anyspace or anything, just let me know.And third, just so all of you know, I am a computer programmer, and whilefor the timebeing I am limited to DOS, I am a fairly good programmer. If anyone wouldlike anything done, like putting an equationinto a program or anything...well, I guess most of youcan program or know someone who does, but if maybe you don't have timeor something, I almostalways have time each day to do a little programming, so... just an offer. I looked over a past discussions letter Zenon sent me, and I just want tosay that althoughright now the equations are over my head, I will try my hardest to figurethem out, so if I don't participate in conversation that much yet, pleaseforgive me. Hopefully soon I will at least be able to participate to somedegree.Well, I guess I wrote too much, sorry about that. One thing more I have toadd is that I am verygood at web research and so if anyone would like me to research anything,let me know. Basically,I'm saying you guys can ask me to do stuff, especially while I can'tparticipate too much in yourconversation (yet). I want to be a helpful, contributing member. Well, I guess I bored you all to death by now. Thanx for reading. Ben==================================================================Date:Tue, 9 Jul 96 17:08:30 +0200From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com Subject: Space linksCc: zkulpa@lksu.ippt.gov.pl>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Tue Jul 9 14:44:49 1996 >Or just nose around looking for other web sites, newsgroups, etc withinfo on starships, space, fusion energy or something. If its good we canadd it or refference it.Short of space links? Here are some -I am attaching below a part of my bookmarks file concerning spaceexploration.I have added also a section on nanotechnology (start to look at it from theMMSG pages). It is true that there is little on spaceships and interstellartravel, as my main interests are in solar system exploration. There soonwill be another interesting site - I am working with my friend here on thepages for The URANOS Club and will post the URL when they appear on theWeb. Generally, whoever finds something interesting on the Web on space orrelated issues, please post URLs here! And now, detach the text below,load it into your browser as a HTML file, and surrrfff! -- Zenon------------------------------------------------------------------------- <HTML<HEAD><TITLE>Zenon Kulpa's Bookmarks on Space</TITLE> </HEAD><BODY><H1>Zenon Kulpa's Bookmarks on Space Exploration</H1> <DL><p><DT><H3>SPACE EXPLORATION</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://www.global.org/bfreed/space/">Space Developmentand Space Science</A> <DT><AHREF="http://ashton.lib.dixie.edu/~bneill/space/">Space Available</A><DT><A HREF="http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/space.html">Human Expansion intoSpace</A> <DT><A HREF="http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/"Liftoff to SpaceExploration</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.im.lcs.mit.edu/bh/black-horse.html">The Black Horse Page</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.islandone.org/Web/">IslandOne Huge Space Index</A><DT><AHREF="http://www.research.ibm.com/quantuminfo/teleportation/">Teleportation</A> <DT><H3>Planetary Exploration & Colonization</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://cass.jsc.nasa.gov/website.html">Planetary ScienceWWW Sites</A> <DT><AHREF="http://exploration.jsc.nasa.gov/explore/DATA/RESOURCE/00TOC.htm">Using Space Resources</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/curator/curator.htm">Planetary Materials Curation atNASA JSC</A> <DT><A HREF="http://cmex-www.arc.nasa.gov/">Center forMars Exploration Home Page</A> <DT><AHREF="http://spot.colorado.edu/~marscase/Home.html">The Case for MarsConference</A> <DT><AHREF="http://bang.lanl.gov/solarsys/mars.htm">Mars Introduction</A><DT><A HREF="http://barsoom.msss.com/http/ps/intro.html">MarslinkEssays</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html">Face on Mars HomePage</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.asi.org/index.html" ALIASID="11">TheArtemis Project</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.tlrc.com/Reference_mission.html">Artemis LunarMission Plan</A> <DT><A HREF="http://vulcain.fb12.TU-Berlin.DE/LBQ.html">Lunar Base Quarterly</A> <DT><AHREF="http://vulcain.fb12.TU-Berlin.DE/koelle/Moonbase/Inhalt.html">Moonbase DevelopmentDocument</A> <DT><A HREF="http://ilewg.jsc.nasa.gov/">Intern. LunarExploration Working Group</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.ari.net/back2moon.html">Back to the Moon Forum</A></DL><p><DT><H3>Space Settlements</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://www.millennial.org/">The First MillennialFoundation</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.islandone.org/">Island OneSociety</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.nas.nasa.gov/NAS/SpaceSettlement/">SpaceSettlements at NASA</A> </DL><p><DT><H3>Flight & Propulsion Physics</H3> <DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/">Basics of SpaceFlight</A> <DT><AHREF="http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/academy.html">The LiftoffAcademy</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.tyrian.com/IPS/">InterstellarPropulsion Society</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/Other_Groups/PAO/warp.htm">Warp DriveWhen?</A> </DL><p><DT><H3>Launch & Exploration Institutions</H3> <DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://hypatia.gsfc.nasa.gov/NASA_homepage.html">NASAMain Page</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.msfc.nasa.gov/">NASA/MarshallSpace Flight Center</A> <DT><AHREF="http://barsoom.msss.com/http/new_directories/newhome.html">Malin Space Science Systems</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.esrin.esa.it/">European Space Agency</A> <DT><AHREF="http://pcpie.co.kp.dlr.de/">Russian Cosmonauts Training Centre</A></DL><p><DT><H3>Missions</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://www.osf.hq.nasa.gov/flights.html">All U.S. HumanSpace Flights</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.osf.hq.nasa.gov/spacemen.html">Missions and People inSpace</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.nasm.edu:80/APOLLO/">APOLLOManned Missions</A> <DT><A HREF="http://shuttle.nasa.gov/">NASA SpaceShuttle Web Archives</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.osf.hq.nasa.gov/shuttle/Welcomea.html">ShuttleFlights to Date</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.jpl.nasa.gov:80/galileo/">Project Galileo (JPL)</A><DT><A HREF="http://ccf.arc.nasa.gov/galileo_probe/">Galileo Jovian Probe(NASA Ames)</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.osf.hq.nasa.gov/iss/">International Space Station</A><DT><A HREF="http://issa-www.jsc.nasa.gov/">ISS Bulletin Board</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.osf.hq.nasa.gov/mir/">Space Station Mir (atNASA)</A> <DT><AHREF="http://exploration.jsc.nasa.gov/explore/explore.htm">PlanetaryMissions & Materials Exploration</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.magick.net/mars/">Mars Direct Manned Mission(plans)</A> </DL><p><DT><H3>Business</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://tanelorn.ncsa.uiuc.edu/si/space_inv.html">List ofCommercial Space Material</A> <DT><AHREF="http://arganet.tenagra.com/Tenagra/aero_bd.html">AerospaceBusiness Development Center</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.asi.org/index.html">The Artemis Project</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.tlrc.com/">Lunar Resources Company</A> </DL><p><DT><H3>Organizations & Clubs</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://muon.qrc.com/space/start.html">Space ActivismHome Page</A> <DT><A HREF="http://planetary.org/tps/index.html">ThePlanetary Society</A> <DT><AHREF="http://planetary.org/tps/signees.html">TPS Guest Book</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.islandone.org/">Island One Society</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.space-frontier.org/">The Space FrontierFoundation</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.millennial.org/">The FirstMillennial Foundation</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.space-access.org/">Space Access Society</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.asi.org/asi_index.html">Artemis SocietyInternational</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.tyrian.com/IPS/">InterstellarPropulsion Society</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.nss.org/">NationalSpace Society (USA)</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.lsw.uni-heidelberg.de/iau.html">International Astronomical Union (IAU)</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.aas.org/">American Astronomical Society</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.mi.astro.it/SGF/">Spaceguard Foundation</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/">MMSG: MolecularManufacture Shortcut Group</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/9601-news.html">MMSGNewsletter The Assembler, 1/96</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.seds.org/ysc/">Moscow Youth Space Center</A> <DT><AHREF="http://sunsite.unc.edu/lunar/">Lunar Institute of Technology</A><DT><A HREF="http://165.254.130.90/LIT/InterStellar/project">New(preliminary) LIT site</A> <DT><AHREF="http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/ssa/ssahome.html">Student SpaceAwareness Inc.</A> <DT><A HREF="http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/">SEDS:Students for Expl.& Dev. of Space</A> </DL><p><DT><H3>Research & Educational Institutions</H3> <DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://www.astro.nwu.edu/lentz/space/ssi/home-ssi.html">Space Studies Institute</A> <DT><AHREF="http://cass.jsc.nasa.gov/lpi.html">Lunar and PlanetaryInstitute</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.isunet.edu/">ISU - InternationalSpace University</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/">JetPropulsion Laboratory</A> <DT><AHREF="http://ceps.nasm.edu:2020/NASMpage.html">National Air & SpaceMuseum</A> <DT><A HREF="http://arc.iki.rssi.ru/">Instytu BadanKosmicznych Rosyjskiej AN</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.sai.msu.su/">Sternberg Astronomical Institute</A><DT><A HREF="http://vulcain.fb12.tu-berlin.de/">Faculty of SpacecraftTechnology at TU-IAA Berlin</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.cbk.waw.pl/">Centrum Badan Kosmicznych PAN</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.astrouw.edu.pl/">Warsaw Univ. AstronomicalObserwatory</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.oa.uj.edu.pl/">ObserwatoriumAstronomiczne UJ, Krakow</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.as.wsp.krakow.pl/">Obserwatorium na g.Suhora,Krakow</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.camk.edu.pl/">CentrumAstronomiczne im. M. Kopernika</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.dlr.de/dlr_astronautics.html">DLR - Spaceprograms</A> </DL><p><DT><H3>Astronomy</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://adswww.harvard.edu/">The NASA Astrophysics DataSystem</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.skypub.com/s_t/s_t.html#menu">Sky & TelescopeJournal</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.aas.org/ApJ/">AstrophysicalJournal</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.demon.co.uk/astronow/">Astronomy Now On-Line</A><DT><A HREF="http://ccnet4.ccnet.com/odyssey/">Star Facts: AnElectronic Journal</A> <DT><A HREF="http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/cfa/ps/icq.html">International Comet Quarterly</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.lsw.uni-heidelberg.de/iau.html">InternationalAstronomical Union (IAU)</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.aas.org/">American Astronomical Society</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.astrouw.edu.pl/">Warsaw Univ. AstronomicalObserwatory</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.oa.uj.edu.pl/">ObserwatoriumAstronomiczne UJ, Krakow</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.as.wsp.krakow.pl/">Obserwatorium na g.Suhora,Krakow</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.camk.edu.pl/">CentrumAstronomiczne im. M. Kopernika</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.darksky.org/~ida/index.html">International Dark-SkyAssociation</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.gnat.org/~ida/gnat/index.html">Global Network ofAstronomical Telescopes (GNAT)</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.stsci.edu/pubinfo/Pictures.html">Hubble SpaceTelescope pictures</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.telescope.org/rti/index.html">Bradford RoboticTelescope</A> </DL><p><DT><H3>Solar System</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://pds.jpl.nasa.gov/">PDS: Planetary Data SystemArchive</A> <DT><A HREF="http://ic-www.arc.nasa.gov/ic/projects/bayes-group/Atlas/Mars/">Mars Atlas</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www-pdsimage.jpl.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/PIAGenCatalogPage.pl?PIA00134">Earth & Moon Galileo image</A><DT><AHREF="http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/billa/tnp/intro.html">Introduction toThe Nine Planets</A> <DT><AHREF="http://bang.lanl.gov/solarsys/homepage.htm">Views Of The SolarSystem</A> <DT><AHREF="http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov:80/planets/welcome.htm">Welcome tothe Planets</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.fourmilab.ch/solar/solar.html">Solar System Live</A><DT><A HREF="http://encke.jpl.nasa.gov/comets_long/96B2.html">C/1996B2 (Hyakutake)</A> </DL><p><DT><H3>Impact Dangers</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://george.arc.nasa.gov/sst/">Asteroid and Comet ImpactHazard</A> <DT><AHREF="http://bang.lanl.gov/solarsys/comet/appendc.htm">The Probabilityof Collisions with Earth</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.mi.astro.it/SGF/">Spaceguard Foundation</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/spacewatch/">Spacewatch Project</A><DT><AHREF="http://www.astro.princeton.edu/~richmond/tass/tass_intro.html">Amateur Sky Survey</A> <DT><A HREF="http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/cfa/ps/mpc.html">Minor Planet Center of IAU</A><DT><A HREF="http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/cfa/ps/NEO/TheNEOPage.html">NEO (Near Earth Objects)[at MPC]</A> <DT><AHREF="http://wea.mankato.mn.us:80/tps/neoabc.html">ABC of NEOs</A><DT><A HREF="http://pentium.pe.ba.dlr.de/">European Asteroid ResearchNode</A> <DT><AHREF="http://bang.lanl.gov/solarsys/tercrate.htm">Terrestrial ImpactCraters</A> <DT><AHREF="http://diamond.ge.ic.ac.uk/jb03/jb03/web/chix.html">ChicxulubCrater</A> <DT><AHREF="http://earth.agu.org/revgeophys/claeys00/claeys00.html">Impactproducts in the sedimentary record</A> <DT><AHREF="http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/sl9/sl9.html">Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9Impact (MIT)</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.stsci.edu/EPA/Comet.html">Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9Impact (HST)</A> </DL><p><DT><H3>Journals, books</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://www.skypub.com/">SKY Online - Sky PublishingCorporation</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.skypub.com/s_t/s_t.html#menu">Sky & TelescopeJournal</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.aas.org/ApJ/">AstrophysicalJournal</A> <DT><A HREF="http://ccnet4.ccnet.com/odyssey/">Star Facts:An Electronic Journal</A> <DT><A HREF="http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/cfa/ps/icq.html">International Comet Quarterly</A><DT><A HREF="http://vulcain.fb12.TU-Berlin.DE/LBQ.html">Lunar BaseQuarterly</A> </DL><p><DT><H3>People</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://www.astro.nwu.edu/lentz/space/home-space.html">Robert Lentz's Space Resources</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.interworld.com/staff/david/">David Levine</A> <DT><AHREF="http://ashton.lib.dixie.edu/~bneill/">Brandon Neill</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.astro.nwu.edu/lentz/space/ssi/obit.html">GerardO'Neill Obituary</A> <DT><AHREF="http://pcpie.co.kp.dlr.de/about1.htm">Andy Pieniazek (Germany)</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.efn.org/~bjr/">Brian Roberts</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.cpedu.rug.nl/~N0642983/welcome.html">Timothy L.G.van der Linden</A> <DT><AHREF="http://ptolemy.gps.caltech.edu/~eww/">Eric W. Weisstein</A></DL><p><DT><H3>Art</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://terraformers.com/brycegal.Jones.html">ClayJones</A> </DL><p></DL><p><DT><H3>NANOTECHNOLOGY</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://www.lucifer.com/~sean/Nano.html">Nanotechnologyon the WWW</A> <DT><AHREF="http://nano.xerox.com/nano">Nanotechnology (at Xerox, byMerkle)</A> <DT><A HREF="http://merkle.com/merkle">Merkle's HomePage</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.foresight.org/index.html">ForesightInstitute</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.imm.org/">IMM: Inst. forMolecular Manufacturing</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.nas.nasa.gov/NAS/Education/nanotech/nanotech.html">NASA nanotechnology links</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/">MMSG: Molecular ManufactureShortcut Group</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/9601-news.html">MMSG Newsletter The Assembler, 1/96</A> <DT><AHREF="http://nano.xerox.com/nanotech/nanosystems.html">NANOSYSTEMSbook by Drexler</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.sciam.com/WEB/exhibit/052796exhibit.html">Scientific American on Nanotech.</A> <DT><AHREF="http://nanothinc.com/">Nanothinc Company</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.mmei.com/">Molecular Manufacturing EnterprisesInc.</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.msi.com/">Molecular SimulationsInc</A> <DT><A HREF="http://scsg9.unige.ch/eng/toc.html">RepresentationModels in Molecular Graphics</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.lucifer.com/~sean/n-spm.html">Scanning ProbeMicroscopy</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www-i.almaden.ibm.com/vis/stm/gallery.html">STM Image Gallery</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.erinet.com/prass/nanowars/ninsf/n_in_sf.html">Nanotechnology in Science Fiction</A> </DL><p></DL><p></BODY></HTML>==================================================================Date:Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:14:31 GMTX-Sender:Lessa@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Unverified) Mime-Version:1.0To: KellySt@aol.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com, stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl,hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@InterWorld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, pbakelaar@exit109.com From: Rex& Timothy <Lessa@worldnet.att.net> To Philip (Ben? which one do you prefer), For Java programs that I made, check out: http://huizen.dds.nl/~sheliak/lit/javacalc.htmlhttp://huizen.dds.nl/~sheliak/calc.htmlAs you may have guessed, my homepage is at:http://huizen.dds.nl/~sheliak/welcome.html To all who didn't know yet, the address of my homepage has changed!! It isno longer at cpedu.rug.nl, (Zenon, update your bookmarks ;) At the bottom of my bookmarks list (which is accessable from myhomepage) there are 4 links to Java stuff that me be useful for those whoreally want to get into it.Oh Philip, I'm staying with Rex for 2 weeks (minus 4 days), so don't beconfused by the Email-address.(My normal email is T.L.G.vanderLinden@....) If you have any questions about Javascript, don't hestiate, ask me.However keep in mind that I just have started Javescript 1 month ago. (Bythe way JavaSCRIPT is diffrent from plain Java). Timothy===================================================================>Date: Tue, 9 Jul 96 17:08:30 +0200>From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)>To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, >T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com Subject: Space links>Cc: zkulpa@lksu.ippt.gov.pl>>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Tue Jul 9 14:44:49 1996 >>Or just nose around looking for other web sites, newsgroups, etc withinfo on starships, space, fusion energy or something. If its good we canadd it or refference it.>Short of space links? Here are some ->I am attaching below a part of my bookmarks file concerning spaceexploration.>I have added also a section on nanotechnology (start to look at it from theMMSG pages). It is true that there is little on spaceships and interstellartravel, as my main interests are in solar system exploration. There soonwill be another interesting site - I am working with my friend here on thepages for The URANOS Club and will post the URL when they appear on theWeb. >Generally, whoever finds something interesting on the Web on space orrelated issues, please post URLs here! >And now, detach the text below,>load it into your browser as a HTML file, and surrrfff! >-- Zenon>------------------------------------------------------------------------- <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Zenon Kulpa's Bookmarks on Space</TITLE> </HEAD><BODY><H1>Zenon Kulpa's Bookmarks on Space Exploration</H1> <DL><p><DT><H3>SPACE EXPLORATION</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://www.global.org/bfreed/space/">Space Developmentand Space Science</A><DT><A HREF="http://ashton.lib.dixie.edu/~bneill/space/">SpaceAvailable</A><DT><AHREF="http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/space.html">HumanExpansion into Space</A><DT><A HREF="http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/"Liftoff to SpaceExploration</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.im.lcs.mit.edu/bh/black-horse.html">The BlackHorse Page</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.islandone.org/Web/">IslandOne Huge SpaceIndex</A><DT><AHREF="http://www.research.ibm.com/quantuminfo/teleportation/">Teleportation< /A><DT><H3>Planetary Exploration & Colonization</H3> <DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://cass.jsc.nasa.gov/website.html">Planetary ScienceWWW Sites</A><DT><AHREF="http://exploration.jsc.nasa.gov/explore/DATA/RESOURCE/00TOC.htm">Using Space Resources</A><DT><AHREF="http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/curator/curator.htm">PlanetaryMaterials Curation at NASA JSC</A><DT><A HREF="http://cmex-www.arc.nasa.gov/">Center for MarsExploration Home Page</A><DT><A HREF="http://spot.colorado.edu/~marscase/Home.html">The Casefor Mars Conference</A><DT><A HREF="http://bang.lanl.gov/solarsys/mars.htm">MarsIntroduction</A><DT><AHREF="http://barsoom.msss.com/http/ps/intro.html">Marslink Essays</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html">Face onMars Home Page</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.asi.org/index.html" ALIASID="11">The ArtemisProject</A><DT><AHREF="http://www.tlrc.com/Reference_mission.html">Artemis LunarMission Plan</A><DT><A HREF="http://vulcain.fb12.TU-Berlin.DE/LBQ.html">Lunar BaseQuarterly</A><DT><AHREF="http://vulcain.fb12.TU-Berlin.DE/koelle/Moonbase/Inhalt.html">Moonbase DevelopmentDocument</A><DT><A HREF="http://ilewg.jsc.nasa.gov/">Intern. Lunar ExplorationWorking Group</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.ari.net/back2moon.html">Back to the MoonForum</A></DL><p><DT><H3>Space Settlements</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://www.millennial.org/">The First MillennialFoundation</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.islandone.org/">Island One Society</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.nas.nasa.gov/NAS/SpaceSettlement/">SpaceSettlements at NASA</A></DL><p><DT><H3>Flight & Propulsion Physics</H3> <DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/">Basics of SpaceFlight</A><DT><AHREF="http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/academy.html">The LiftoffAcademy</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.tyrian.com/IPS/">Interstellar PropulsionSociety</A><DT><AHREF="http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/Other_Groups/PAO/warp.htm">Warp DriveWhen?</A></DL><p><DT><H3>Launch & Exploration Institutions</H3> <DL><p><DT><AHREF="http://hypatia.gsfc.nasa.gov/NASA_homepage.html">NASA MainPage</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.msfc.nasa.gov/">NASA/Marshall Space FlightCenter</A><DT><AHREF="http://barsoom.msss.com/http/new_directories/newhome.html">Malin Space Science Systems</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.esrin.esa.it/">European Space Agency</A><DT><A HREF="http://pcpie.co.kp.dlr.de/">Russian Cosmonauts TrainingCentre</A></DL><p><DT><H3>Missions</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://www.osf.hq.nasa.gov/flights.html">All U.S. HumanSpace Flights</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.osf.hq.nasa.gov/spacemen.html">Missions andPeople in Space</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.nasm.edu:80/APOLLO/">APOLLO MannedMissions</A><DT><A HREF="http://shuttle.nasa.gov/">NASA Space Shuttle WebArchives</A><DT><AHREF="http://www.osf.hq.nasa.gov/shuttle/Welcomea.html">ShuttleFlights to Date</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.jpl.nasa.gov:80/galileo/">Project Galileo(JPL)</A><DT><A HREF="http://ccf.arc.nasa.gov/galileo_probe/">Galileo Jovian Probe(NASA Ames)</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.osf.hq.nasa.gov/iss/">International SpaceStation</A><DT><A HREF="http://issa-www.jsc.nasa.gov/">ISS Bulletin Board</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.osf.hq.nasa.gov/mir/">Space Station Mir (atNASA)</A><DT><AHREF="http://exploration.jsc.nasa.gov/explore/explore.htm">PlanetaryMissions & Materials Exploration</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.magick.net/mars/">Mars Direct Manned Mission(plans)</A></DL><p><DT><H3>Business</H3><DL><p><DT><AHREF="http://tanelorn.ncsa.uiuc.edu/si/space_inv.html">List ofCommercial Space Material</A><DT><AHREF="http://arganet.tenagra.com/Tenagra/aero_bd.html">AerospaceBusiness Development Center</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.asi.org/index.html">The Artemis Project</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.tlrc.com/">Lunar Resources Company</A></DL><p><DT><H3>Organizations & Clubs</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://muon.qrc.com/space/start.html">Space ActivismHome Page</A><DT><A HREF="http://planetary.org/tps/index.html">The PlanetarySociety</A><DT><A HREF="http://planetary.org/tps/signees.html">TPS Guest Book</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.islandone.org/">Island One Society</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.space-frontier.org/">The Space FrontierFoundation</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.millennial.org/">The First MillennialFoundation</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.space-access.org/">Space Access Society</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.asi.org/asi_index.html">Artemis SocietyInternational</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.tyrian.com/IPS/">Interstellar PropulsionSociety</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.nss.org/">National Space Society (USA)</A><DT><AHREF="http://www.lsw.uni-heidelberg.de/iau.html">InternationalAstronomical Union (IAU)</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.aas.org/">American Astronomical Society</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.mi.astro.it/SGF/">Spaceguard Foundation</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/">MMSG: MolecularManufacture Shortcut Group</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/9601-news.html">MMSGNewsletter The Assembler, 1/96</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.seds.org/ysc/">Moscow Youth Space Center</A><DT><A HREF="http://sunsite.unc.edu/lunar/">Lunar Institute ofTechnology</A><DT><AHREF="http://165.254.130.90/LIT/InterStellar/project">New (preliminary)LIT site</A><DT><AHREF="http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/ssa/ssahome.html">Student SpaceAwareness Inc.</A><DT><A HREF="http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/">SEDS: Students for Expl.& Dev.of Space</A></DL><p><DT><H3>Research & Educational Institutions</H3> <DL><p><DT><AHREF="http://www.astro.nwu.edu/lentz/space/ssi/home-ssi.html">SpaceStudies Institute</A><DT><A HREF="http://cass.jsc.nasa.gov/lpi.html">Lunar and PlanetaryInstitute</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.isunet.edu/">ISU - International SpaceUniversity</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/">Jet Propulsion Laboratory</A><DT><A HREF="http://ceps.nasm.edu:2020/NASMpage.html">National Air &Space Museum</A><DT><A HREF="http://arc.iki.rssi.ru/">Instytu Badan KosmicznychRosyjskiej AN</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.sai.msu.su/">Sternberg AstronomicalInstitute</A><DT><A HREF="http://vulcain.fb12.tu-berlin.de/">Faculty of SpacecraftTechnology at TU-IAA Berlin</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.cbk.waw.pl/">Centrum Badan KosmicznychPAN</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.astrouw.edu.pl/">Warsaw Univ. AstronomicalObserwatory</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.oa.uj.edu.pl/">Obserwatorium AstronomiczneUJ, Krakow</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.as.wsp.krakow.pl/">Obserwatorium na g.Suhora,Krakow</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.camk.edu.pl/">Centrum Astronomiczne im. M.Kopernika</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.dlr.de/dlr_astronautics.html">DLR - Spaceprograms</A></DL><p><DT><H3>Astronomy</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://adswww.harvard.edu/">The NASA Astrophysics DataSystem</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.skypub.com/s_t/s_t.html#menu">Sky &Telescope Journal</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.aas.org/ApJ/">Astrophysical Journal</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.demon.co.uk/astronow/">Astronomy Now On-Line</A><DT><A HREF="http://ccnet4.ccnet.com/odyssey/">Star Facts: AnElectronic Journal</A><DT><AHREF="http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/cfa/ps/icq.html">International CometQuarterly</A><DT><AHREF="http://www.lsw.uni-heidelberg.de/iau.html">InternationalAstronomical Union (IAU)</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.aas.org/">American Astronomical Society</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.astrouw.edu.pl/">Warsaw Univ. AstronomicalObserwatory</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.oa.uj.edu.pl/">Obserwatorium AstronomiczneUJ, Krakow</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.as.wsp.krakow.pl/">Obserwatorium na g.Suhora,Krakow</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.camk.edu.pl/">Centrum Astronomiczne im. M.Kopernika</A><DT><AHREF="http://www.darksky.org/~ida/index.html">International Dark-SkyAssociation</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.gnat.org/~ida/gnat/index.html">Global Networkof Astronomical Telescopes (GNAT)</A> <DT><A HREF="http://www.stsci.edu/pubinfo/Pictures.html">Hubble SpaceTelescope pictures</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.telescope.org/rti/index.html">Bradford RoboticTelescope</A></DL><p><DT><H3>Solar System</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://pds.jpl.nasa.gov/">PDS: Planetary Data SystemArchive</A><DT><AHREF="http://ic-www.arc.nasa.gov/ic/projects/bayes-group/Atlas/Mars/">Mars Atlas</A><DT><AHREF="http://www-pdsimage.jpl.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/PIAGenCatalogPage.pl?PIA00134 ">Earth & Moon Galileo image</A><DT><AHREF="http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/billa/tnp/intro.html">Introduction toThe Nine Planets</A><DT><A HREF="http://bang.lanl.gov/solarsys/homepage.htm">Views Of TheSolar System</A><DT><AHREF="http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov:80/planets/welcome.htm">Welcome tothe Planets</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.fourmilab.ch/solar/solar.html">Solar SystemLive</A><DT><AHREF="http://encke.jpl.nasa.gov/comets_long/96B2.html">C/1996 B2(Hyakutake)</A></DL><p><DT><H3>Impact Dangers</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://george.arc.nasa.gov/sst/">Asteroid and Comet ImpactHazard</A><DT><AHREF="http://bang.lanl.gov/solarsys/comet/appendc.htm">The Probabilityof Collisions with Earth</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.mi.astro.it/SGF/">Spaceguard Foundation</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/spacewatch/">SpacewatchProject</A><DT><AHREF="http://www.astro.princeton.edu/~richmond/tass/tass_intro.html">Amateur Sky Survey</A><DT><A HREF="http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/cfa/ps/mpc.html">Minor PlanetCenter of IAU</A><DT><AHREF="http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/cfa/ps/NEO/TheNEOPage.html">NEO(Near Earth Objects) [at MPC]</A><DT><A HREF="http://wea.mankato.mn.us:80/tps/neoabc.html">ABC ofNEOs</A><DT><A HREF="http://pentium.pe.ba.dlr.de/">European Asteroid ResearchNode</A><DT><AHREF="http://bang.lanl.gov/solarsys/tercrate.htm">Terrestrial ImpactCraters</A><DT><AHREF="http://diamond.ge.ic.ac.uk/jb03/jb03/web/chix.html">ChicxulubCrater</A><DT><AHREF="http://earth.agu.org/revgeophys/claeys00/claeys00.html">Impactproducts in the sedimentary record</A><DT><A HREF="http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/sl9/sl9.html">Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 Impact (MIT)</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.stsci.edu/EPA/Comet.html">Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 Impact (HST)</A></DL><p><DT><H3>Journals, books</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://www.skypub.com/">SKY Online - Sky PublishingCorporation</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.skypub.com/s_t/s_t.html#menu">Sky &Telescope Journal</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.aas.org/ApJ/">Astrophysical Journal</A><DT><A HREF="http://ccnet4.ccnet.com/odyssey/">Star Facts: AnElectronic Journal</A><DT><AHREF="http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/cfa/ps/icq.html">International CometQuarterly</A><DT><A HREF="http://vulcain.fb12.TU-Berlin.DE/LBQ.html">Lunar BaseQuarterly</A></DL><p><DT><H3>People</H3><DL><p><DT><AHREF="http://www.astro.nwu.edu/lentz/space/home-space.html">RobertLentz's Space Resources</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.interworld.com/staff/david/">David Levine</A><DT><A HREF="http://ashton.lib.dixie.edu/~bneill/">Brandon Neill</A><DT><AHREF="http://www.astro.nwu.edu/lentz/space/ssi/obit.html">GerardO'Neill Obituary</A><DT><A HREF="http://pcpie.co.kp.dlr.de/about1.htm">Andy Pieniazek(Germany)</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.efn.org/~bjr/">Brian Roberts</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.cpedu.rug.nl/~N0642983/welcome.html">Timothy L.G.van der Linden</A><DT><A HREF="http://ptolemy.gps.caltech.edu/~eww/">Eric W.Weisstein</A></DL><p><DT><H3>Art</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://terraformers.com/brycegal.Jones.html">ClayJones</A></DL><p></DL><p><DT><H3>NANOTECHNOLOGY</H3><DL><p><DT><A HREF="http://www.lucifer.com/~sean/Nano.html">Nanotechnologyon the WWW</A><DT><A HREF="http://nano.xerox.com/nano">Nanotechnology (at Xerox, byMerkle)</A><DT><A HREF="http://merkle.com/merkle">Merkle's Home Page</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.foresight.org/index.html">Foresight Institute</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.imm.org/">IMM: Inst. for MolecularManufacturing</A><DT><AHREF="http://www.nas.nasa.gov/NAS/Education/nanotech/nanotech.html">NASA nanotechnology links</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/">MMSG: MolecularManufacture Shortcut Group</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/9601-news.html">MMSGNewsletter The Assembler, 1/96</A><DT><AHREF="http://nano.xerox.com/nanotech/nanosystems.html">NANOSYSTEMSbook by Drexler</A><DT><AHREF="http://www.sciam.com/WEB/exhibit/052796exhibit.html">Scientific American on Nanotech.</A><DT><A HREF="http://nanothinc.com/">Nanothinc Company</A> <DT><AHREF="http://www.mmei.com/">Molecular Manufacturing EnterprisesInc.</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.msi.com/">Molecular Simulations Inc</A><DT><A HREF="http://scsg9.unige.ch/eng/toc.html">Representation Modelsin Molecular Graphics</A><DT><A HREF="http://www.lucifer.com/~sean/n-spm.html">Scanning ProbeMicroscopy</A><DT><A HREF="http://www-i.almaden.ibm.com/vis/stm/gallery.html">STMImage Gallery</A><DT><AHREF="http://www.erinet.com/prass/nanowars/ninsf/n_in_sf.html">Nanotechnolog y in Science Fiction</A></DL><p></DL><p></BODY></HTML>---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMessage-Id: <v01530500ae082efc1f66@[151.168.146.187]> Mime-Version:1.0Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date:Tue, 9 Jul 1996 10:46:42 -0500To: KellySt@aol.com,sdudley@ix.netcom.com,schlegel@RMC1.CROCKER.com,JohnFrance@aol.com,mark_jensen@cpqm.mail.saic.com,DTaylor648@aol.com,mwiik@netcom.comFrom: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject:Nano & Space links===============================================================================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: "zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl"<zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl>, "'kgstar@most.fw.hac.com'"	 <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>Cc: "KellySt@aol.com" <KellySt@aol.com>, "hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu"	 <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>,"T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "stevev@efn.org"<stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl> Cc: "rddesign@wolfenet.com"<rddesign@wolfenet.com>, "lparker@destin.gulfnet.com" <lparker@destin.gulfnet.com>,"DotarSojat@aol.com" <DotarSojat@aol.com>, "sl0c8@cc.usu.edu"<sl0c8@cc.usu.edu>,"MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU"<MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU>, "101765.2200@compuserve.com"<101765.2200@compuserve.com> Cc: "neill@foda.math.usu.edu"<neill@foda.math.usu.edu>, "pbakelaar@exit109.com" <pbakelaar@exit109.com>,"zkulpa@lksu.ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@lksu.ippt.gov.pl> Subject: Xenon Ion==================================================================Date:Tue, 9 Jul 1996 17:11:31 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0A recent NASA press release mentions the Xenon Ion engine. Isn't that anengine that originally came out of development of the TAU project?Apparently they're actually building the thing (not TAU, but the engine...)David==================================================================Date:Tue, 9 Jul 96 16:21:44 ESTFrom: mailer-daemon@most.fw.hac.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject:Returned mail: User unknownTo: <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>----- Transcript of session follows ----- Connected to mail.digimark.net:>>>RCPT To:<ips@digimark.net><<< 550 <ips@digimark.net>... User unknown 550 <ips@digimark.net>... Userunknown----- Unsent message follows -----Return-Path: <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>Received: by most.fw.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) 	id AA22054; Tue, 9 Jul 9616:21:44 ESTReceived: from unknown(151.168.254.82) by gw1 via smap (V1.3mjr)	id smI021949; Tue Jul 9 16:20:34 1996Received: by most (4.1/SMI-4.1)	id AA11799; Tue, 9 Jul 96 16:20:31 ESTReceived: from ss2.fw.hac.com(151.168.145.200) by most via smap(V1.5khhunt) 	id sma011764; Tue Jul 9 16:19:14 1996Received: from [151.168.146.187] (kgstar) by ss2.uiv (4.1/SMI-4.1) 	idAA15554; Tue, 9 Jul 96 16:19:11 EST==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMessage-Id: <v01530505ae087bc028a8@[151.168.146.187]> Mime-Version:1.0Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Date:Tue, 9 Jul 1996 16:19:12 -0500To: ips@digimark.netFrom: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject:IPS, is it dead?Cc: kellyst@aol.com (Kelly Starks AOL account) I was woundering whats happening with IPS? I noticed that not muchseems to have changed at the site. (Lots of great listings in the digibank,but no contents. Newsletters and such that weret published, or arn'taccessable.) So I was woundering what happened? I'm working on geting the L.I.T. Starship design project and web siterefurbed and more active. So I was woundering if you had warnings ofproblems your site ran into?Kelly StarksP.S.If you interested in our old or new sites please feel free to browse. Theold site is at:Http://sunsite.unc.edu/lunar/index.htmlorHttp://sunsite.unc.edu/lunar/sdhp.htmlThe new (DEVELOPMENT!) version is at:http://165.254.130.90/LIT/InterStellar/project/ But were having a bit of trouble with it. The frame maps aren't workingbut the standard (duplicate) pointers farther down are working. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================================Date:Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:42:08 -0400X-Sender:pbakelaar@hiway1.exit109.comMime-Version: 1.0To: Rex & Timothy <Lessa@worldnet.att.net>, KellySt@aol.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com, stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu,zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu,rddesign@wolfenet.com, David@InterWorld.com,lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com, neill@foda.math.usu.edu,101765.2200@compuserve.com, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nlFrom: Philip Bakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: Re:At 06:14 PM 7/9/96 GMT, Rex & Timothy wrote: >To Philip (Ben? which one do you prefer), Ben, thanx.>For Java programs that I made, check out: >http://huizen.dds.nl/~sheliak/lit/javacalc.htmlhttp://huizen.dds.nl/~sheliak/calc.html>As you may have guessed, my homepage is at:http://huizen.dds.nl/~sheliak/welcome.html Well, I will have to check out those homepages definetely, although Imight already have yesterday. I don't remember.>At the bottom of my bookmarks list (which is accessable from myhomepage) there are 4 links to Java stuff that me be useful for those whoreally want to get into it.>Oh Philip, I'm staying with Rex for 2 weeks (minus 4 days), so don't beconfused by the Email-address.>(My normal email is T.L.G.vanderLinden@....) >If you have any questions about Javascript, don't hestiate, ask me.However keep in mind that I just have started Javescript 1 month ago. (Bythe way JavaSCRIPT is diffrent from plain Java). Oh boy do I have questions.. Actually, not that many. Just if you could dothis for me:Write an HTML document that has a JavaScript in it that have thefollowing things:input a numberrun a number through an equation (make the number type one with lots of decimals, as the programs I will be writing, like the ones at LIT, usuallyhave lots of decimal places)print a numberinput textprint textconvert number to textThat would be great if you could send something like that my way. Ben==================================================================Date:Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:38:12 -0400X-Sender:pbakelaar@hiway1.exit109.comMime-Version: 1.0To: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) From: PhilipBakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: Re: New mini-LIT Member (Alitte more info) Cc: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39), KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl,stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl,rddesign@wolfenet.com, David@interworld.com,lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com, sl0c8@cc.usu.edu,MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,neill@foda.math.usu.eduAt 07:40 AM 7/9/96 -0500, Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 wrote: >You could read through the new Website at Dave system and tell me whichparts are clear, cloudy, interesting, yawnish. If you can figure out why themap links on my nice table of content graphics on the development sitedon't work I'ld appreciate it.>If you want to take a crack at progrmaing an active table to computingrelatavistic fuel ratios for ships, or microwave power needed for a sailship, that would help too. (I'm trying to recruit someone whos trying to donumeric analysis, and we could use some numbers.) (Don't worry none of usare comfortable with all these equations.) >Or just nose around looking for other web sites, newsgroups, etc withinfo on starships, space, fusion energy or something. If its good we canadd it or refference it. (I've done a few scans, but the term starship buriesyou under tons of startrek stuff!>Kelly Starks>From what I've read, Kelly, it seems you are very busy. I do have space on my web site, as well as time to maintain the LIT page, so... the offerstands. I would actually enjoy hosting the web site, and believe me thoselinks would pile up quickly! Anyway, just an offer. BenAbout the programming, I am currently trying to learn a bit of Java orJavaScript so I can put the programs up on a web site.From:jhujsak@crash.cts.com (John Hujsak) ==================================================================Date:Tue, 9 Jul 1996 20:54:29 -0700To: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re:ReRe is IPS deadHi!Please note that IPS has moved to http://www.tyrian.com/IPS/ No, IPS is far from dead. The problem is that it is growing far too fast andthe professional side is overunning the patron side. So far this year we have been participants in a major JPL workshop, aNASA advanced propulsion study and a Symposium at the NYC NationalSpace Society Meeting (a side symposium which we sponsored). In addition, the rules for the professional journal have been reviewed andfinalized.We did not anticipate this much activity for at least another 2 years. Inthat we are an all volunteer effort, it has placed a considerable strain onall involved.Sorry about any delays.Regards,Jon HujsakPresidentIPS==================================================================Date:Tue, 09 Jul 1996 23:10:56 -0700From: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Mime-Version:1.0Followup-To:"101765.2200@compuserve.com",<101765.2200@COMPUSERVE.COM>,"kgstar@most.fw.hac.com",<kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>,"neill@foda.math.usu.edu",<neill@foda.math.usu.edu>,"'zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl'",<zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl>,"Rex,&,Timothy"<Lessa@worldnet.att.net> To:David Levine <David@InterWorld.com>Cc: KellySt@aol.com, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl,stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@InterWorld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@CompuServe.COM, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, Lessa@worldnet.att.net Subject: New? LIT site.David Levine wrote:>Kevin also has a few ideas about the future of LIT. Personally, I can't sayI agree with him, but if you'd like to share your ideas, Kevin...Thank you Dave,As I've said to Dave before, I will now say to the whole group. I don't wantwhat I'm about to propose to split the group. If after hearing my ideas, Aclear majority doesn't want to endorse it, then I think it should not bepursued. This is why I have not said anything before this. First some background: I am starting a Web-publishing Business. I havealready secured a domain name www.URLy-Bird.com {don't bother goingthere, the server isn't up yet.) If you want a look at my page, tryhttp://umn.edu/~hous0042/urlybird.html As of right now, I have two choices:1) pay $10.00 / month and point urly-bird.com to my school account. (6 mominimum) 2) pay $30.00 / month (and $40.00 start-up) and get 30 Megs offast! storage space from a company called tabnet. http://www.tabnet.com/ I can't really afford to set up the server just yet. but I don't want to waste6 months of traffic by having to switch to a server later down the road. So here is my proposal. (at last, here's the point) If I knew that the SSD (star ship design) Group would be willing to moveto my server space, I could justify getting a server set up. I would ask aone-time donation to help defray start-up costs (this is a donation only,no pressure) I would never charge SSD for it's space, and I think that adrevenues would perhaps generate some extra income for the SSD group. Benefits to SSD:1) FTP Access to the main site. No need to have two sites going. 2) E-mailand Majordomo. We can get the mailing list started again! and auto-foreward mail addresses like KevinH@urly-bird, or TimV@urly-bird which would send the mail on to our normal addresses. 3) A SysAdminwho is committed {or should be ;-) } (By SysAdmin, I mean the people at Sunsite, not Dave. I have nothing butrespect for Dave.)Benefits to Kevin:1) Some help with the start-up costs.2) Extra traffic to my urly-bird site.3) A place to help show off my web-slinging talent. 4) I hope that thecombination of 2 and 3 will eventually allow me to quit my day job. If I've left something out, be assured it is not intentional. I've no desire tocheat my friends.What I need from you:1) Your thoughts on this. MANDATORY! Even if you think this idea stinks,tell me. If there is enough talk against it, I will withdraw. I don't want there to bemultiple sites with sets of people who don't talk to each other. ugh! 2) Your monetary help. Requested only. no pressure. no special recognitioneither way. Judging from the size of the mailing list, I would ask $10.00 fromeach of you to help with start-up costs.My investment so far:$50.00 for the registration of the URLY-bird Name Paid $100.00 more toInternic for two years of DNS	Still owed.It will cost $70.00 to set up the server for the first 3 months, and $30.00each month thereafter. I hope to sell server space for$2.00/Megabyte/month and to sell ads.Well, thats it. if you think this idea is Good, Bad or not-fully-thought-out,Please let us all know.Kevin==================================================================Date:Wed, 10 Jul 96 13:58:25 +0200From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com Subject: Re: New? LITsite.Cc: zkulpa@lksu.ippt.gov.pl>From hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu Wed Jul 10 06:19:44 1996 >[...]>What I need from you:>1) Your thoughts on this. MANDATORY! Even if you think this idea stinks,tell me. Seems interesting to me. At least, this has a chance to be a "professional"site with constant maintenance and little or no problems with theprovider... (or am I mistaken? ;-)There is the Ben's proposal, too, but it seems less "professional" in theabove sense (sorry, Ben...). >If there is enough talk against it, I will withdraw. I don't want there tobe multiple sites with sets of people who don't talk to each other. ugh! >2) Your monetary help. Requested only. no pressure. no special recognitioneither >way. Judging from the size of the mailing list, I would ask $10.00 fromeach of you to help with start-up costs.This may scare away some of us, especially these far away... >I hope to sell server space for>$2.00/Megabyte/month and to sell ads.Do you mean ads will be displayed at the LIT pages? It has its advantages(e.g., possibility for sponsorships) and disadvantages (e.g., labelling thesite as "commercial"). -- Zenon==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 07:17:24 -0500To: Philip Bakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> From:kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re: Newmini-LIT Member (A litte more info) Cc: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (KellyStarks x7066 MS 10-39), KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl,stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl,rddesign@wolfenet.com, David@interworld.com,lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com, sl0c8@cc.usu.edu,MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,neill@foda.math.usu.eduAt 6:38 PM 7/9/96, Philip Bakelaar wrote: >At 07:40 AM 7/9/96 -0500, Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 wrote: >>You could read through the new Website at Dave system and tell mewhich parts are clear, cloudy, interesting, yawnish. If you can figure outwhy the map links on my nice table of content graphics on the developmentsite don't work I'ld appreciate it.>>If you want to take a crack at progrmaing an active table to computingrelatavistic fuel ratios for ships, or microwave power needed for a sailship, that would help too. (I'm trying to recruit someone whos trying to donumeric analysis, and we could use some numbers.) (Don't worry none of usare comfortable with all these equations.) >>Or just nose around looking for other web sites, newsgroups, etc withinfo on starships, space, fusion energy or something. If its good we canadd it or refference it. (I've done a few scans, but the term starship buriesyou under tons of startrek stuff!>>Kelly Starks>>From what I've read, Kelly, it seems you are very busy. I do have space on >my web site, as well as time to maintain the LIT page, so... the offerstands. I would actually enjoy hosting the web site, and believe me thoselinks would pile up quickly! Anyway, just an offer. >BenThanks Ben. I'm not realy short of space, just time. I also think its a goodidea to consolodate the project stuff on one central site not distributedamoung peoples personal sites. (Our members tend to come and go. Whichcould cause sections of the system to disapear with them.) On the otherhand having some assistence in sorting out links and checking out the webpages would be great. I'll see what we can set up. >About the programming, I am currently trying to learn a bit of Java orJavaScript so I can put the programs up on a web site. Sounds good. We'll have to coordinate efforts. Right now I'ld guess the priorities should probably be in geting the newweb pages cleaned, seting up a new set of web links, and restaring thenewsletters.(Comments group?)We'll talk in a bit.Kelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==============================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: "KellySt@aol.com"<KellySt@aol.com>, "hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu"	 <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>,"T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "stevev@efn.org"<stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl> To: "rddesign@wolfenet.com"<rddesign@wolfenet.com>, "lparker@destin.gulfnet.com" <lparker@destin.gulfnet.com>,"DotarSojat@aol.com" <DotarSojat@aol.com>, "sl0c8@cc.usu.edu"<sl0c8@cc.usu.edu>,"MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU"<MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU>, "101765.2200@compuserve.com"<101765.2200@compuserve.com> To: "kgstar@most.fw.hac.com"<kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, "neill@foda.math.usu.edu" <neill@foda.math.usu.edu>,"pbakelaar@exit109.com" <pbakelaar@exit109.com>,"'zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl'" <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl> Cc: zkulpa<zkulpa@InterWorld.com>Subject: RE: New? LIT site.==================================================================Date:Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:22:56 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0>>2) Your monetary help. Requested only. no pressure. no special >recognition either>>way. Judging from the size of the mailing list, I would ask $10.00 >from each of>>you to help with start-up costs.>This may scare away some of us, especially these far away... >>I hope to sell server space for>>$2.00/Megabyte/month and to sell ads.>Do you mean ads will be displayed at the LIT pages? It has its advantages(e.g., possibility for sponsorships) and disadvantages (e.g., labelling thesite as "commercial"). >-- ZenonYes, these were my two concerns as well. Obviously, $10 is not a lot ofmoney... but I always wanted it to be totally free to everyone, just to sortof "take the pressure off". And while I'm not concerned with labelling thesite commercial (we could just call it a "sponsorship"... certainly we won'tbe endorsing a certain brand of starship... corporate sponsorship reallycan't affect the content of such a site) I don't know if LIT itself wouldattractany sponsorship... the number of hits is (while high for a science site)depressingly low for commercial use. However, Kevin has already told methat even "if that [a high hit count] never happened, i would be pleased aspunch to have LIT at my web server."The only other reason I may seem apprehensive about all this is that I hada very very similar offer of help once before from a guy who was thesysadmin for a major ISP in Chicago - we had our own domain name(lunar.org), unlimited space, a helpful sysadmin, *fast* access times, etc.But eventually he ran into problems providing time and space, and hisbosses asked him to shut LIT down - - without warning, the web site wasinaccessable. I could still log on, but ALL THE FILES WERE GONE. Luckily,after much yelling he was able to return most of my stuff, which Ieventually got SunSITE to accept.... I know they're not going away. Nowwhile I know Kevin has the best (BEST) intentions, and has no plans ongiving up on LIT... well, you see, I have to be careful and plan for futurecontingencies, no matter how unlikely they seem now.===============================================================================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: "KellySt@aol.com"<KellySt@aol.com>, "hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu"	 <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>,"T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "stevev@efn.org"<stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl> To: "rddesign@wolfenet.com"<rddesign@wolfenet.com>, "lparker@destin.gulfnet.com" <lparker@destin.gulfnet.com>,"DotarSojat@aol.com" <DotarSojat@aol.com>, "sl0c8@cc.usu.edu"<sl0c8@cc.usu.edu>,"MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU"<MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU>, "101765.2200@compuserve.com"<101765.2200@compuserve.com> To: "kgstar@most.fw.hac.com"<kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, "neill@foda.math.usu.edu" <neill@foda.math.usu.edu>,"pbakelaar@exit109.com" <pbakelaar@exit109.com>,"'zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl'" <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl> Cc: zkulpa<zkulpa@InterWorld.com>Subject: RE: New? LIT site.Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:30:00 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0>>2) Your monetary help. Requested only. no pressure. no special >recognition either>>way. Judging from the size of the mailing list, I would ask $10.00 >from each of>>you to help with start-up costs.>This may scare away some of us, especially these far away... >>I hope to sell server space for>>$2.00/Megabyte/month and to sell ads.>Do you mean ads will be displayed at the LIT pages? It has its advantages(e.g., possibility for sponsorships) and disadvantages (e.g., labelling thesite as "commercial"). >-- ZenonYes, these were my two concerns as well. Obviously, $10 is not a lot ofmoney... but I always wanted it to be totally free to everyone, just to sortof "take the pressure off". And while I'm not concerned with labelling thesite commercial (we could just call it a "sponsorship"... certainly we won'tbe endorsing a certain brand of starship... corporate sponsorship reallycan't affect the content of such a site) I don't know if LIT itself wouldattractany sponsorship... the number of hits is (while high for a science site)depressingly low for commercial use. However, Kevin has already told methat even "if that [a high hit count] never happened, i would be pleased aspunch to have LIT at my web server."The only other reason I may seem apprehensive about all this is that I hada very very similar offer of help once before from a guy who was thesysadmin for a major ISP in Chicago - we had our own domain name(lunar.org), unlimited space, a helpful sysadmin, *fast* access times, etc.But eventually he ran into problems providing time and space, and hisbosses asked him to shut LIT down - - without warning, the web site wasinaccessable. I could still log on, but ALL THE FILES WERE GONE. Luckily,after much yelling he was able to return most of my stuff, which Ieventually got SunSITE to accept.... I know they're not going away. Nowwhile I know Kevin has the best (BEST) intentions, and has no plans ongiving up on LIT... well, you see, I have to be careful and plan for futurecontingencies, no matter how unlikely they seem now.==================================================================Date:Wed, 10 Jul 96 16:41:07 +0200From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com Subject: RE: New? LITsite.>From David@InterWorld.com Wed Jul 10 16:24:52 1996 From: David Levine<David@InterWorld.com> To: "KellySt@aol.com" <KellySt@aol.com>, >"hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu">	 <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>,>"T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "stevev@efn.org"<stevev@efn.org>,>"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl> To: "rddesign@wolfenet.com"<rddesign@wolfenet.com>, >"lparker@destin.gulfnet.com" <lparker@destin.gulfnet.com>,"DotarSojat@aol.com" <DotarSojat@aol.com>, "sl0c8@cc.usu.edu"<sl0c8@cc.usu.edu>,>"MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU"<MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU>, "101765.2200@compuserve.com"<101765.2200@compuserve.com> To: "kgstar@most.fw.hac.com"<kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, >"neill@foda.math.usu.edu" <neill@foda.math.usu.edu>,"pbakelaar@exit109.com" <pbakelaar@exit109.com>,"'zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl'" <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl> Cc: zkulpa<zkulpa@InterWorld.com>>Subject: RE: New? LIT site.>Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:22:56 -0400>X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version4.12.736 Content-Length: 2117>The only other reason I may seem apprehensive about all this is that I hada very very similar offer of help once before from a guy who was thesysadmin for a major ISP in Chicago - we had our own domain name(lunar.org),Yes, I remember the site, I have started my LIT membership from there,after finding a link at the "Best of the Web" award page... >unlimited space, a helpful sysadmin, *fast* access times, etc. Buteventually he ran into problems providing time and space, and his bossesasked him to shut LIT down - - without warning, the web site wasinaccessable. I could still log on, but ALL THE FILES WERE GONE. Luckily,after much yelling he was able to return most of my stuff, which Ieventually got SunSITE to accept....I wonder - what are the reasons of this site becoming defunct? Problemswith the provider, or you, Dave, bored of maintaining it? I do notremember reading the explanation (or forgot it, possibly). >I know they're not going away. Now>while I know Kevin has the best (BEST) intentions, and has no plans ongiving up on LIT... well, you see, I have to be careful and plan for futurecontingencies, no matter how unlikely they seem now. BTW, you have my address listed several times in your header (see above),so I am regularly receiving at least two copies of your postings (and thisone arrived even in four copies, I am not sure why.Such bandwidth waste, Dave... :-).-- Zenon=====================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: "KellySt@aol.com"<KellySt@aol.com>, "hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu"	 <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>,"T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "stevev@efn.org"<stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl> To: "rddesign@wolfenet.com"<rddesign@wolfenet.com>, "lparker@destin.gulfnet.com" <lparker@destin.gulfnet.com>,"DotarSojat@aol.com" <DotarSojat@aol.com>, "sl0c8@cc.usu.edu"<sl0c8@cc.usu.edu>,"MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU"<MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU>, "101765.2200@compuserve.com"<101765.2200@compuserve.com> To: "kgstar@most.fw.hac.com"<kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, "neill@foda.math.usu.edu" <neill@foda.math.usu.edu>,"pbakelaar@exit109.com" <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: RE: New? LITsite.Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:48:11 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0>>I eventually got SunSITE to accept.... >I wonder - what are the reasons of this site becoming defunct? Problemswith the provider, or you, Dave, bored of maintaining it? I do notremember reading the explanation (or forgot it, possibly). Oh, mainly only I have an account there, but it seems better to alloweveryone who's a major participant to have access to the pages, soSunSITE hasn't really been abandoned... just temporarily "on the sidelines".When the development site is ready to go live, I will begin mirroring thedevelopment site at SunSITE, so the "development team" will effectivelyhave access to SunSITE.>BTW, you have my address listed several times in your header (seeabove), so I am regularly receiving at least two copies of your postings(and this one arrived even in four copies, I am not sure why.>Such bandwidth waste, Dave... :-).Whoops. I'm not sure what was going on (i.e. why your name was listedseveral times... I just hit the "reply-to-all" button), but I think I've fixedit...==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:35:41 -0500To: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> From:kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re: New?LIT site.Cc: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com>, KellySt@aol.com, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com, sl0c8@cc.usu.edu,MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU, 101765.2200@CompuServe.COM,kgstar@most.fw.hac.com, neill@foda.math.usu.edu, Lessa@worldnet.att.netOddly I just stumbled over other related SSD rehost concepts. Must be thetiming. I'll try to write up everything I can tyhink of and list the pros andcons.1) Stay at SunSiteGoodSunSite is free and the site itself probably won't go away. BadI think were all tired of Sunsites erratic problems. (Parts of LIT disapperor stop functioning. ) Given some of Daves comments and difficulty ingeting things back on line, I'm sure he'ld like LIT to get off there too. Alsoonly Dave has update access to the site. Thats good for security (andconsistency), but Daves working for a growing little start-up company. Hecan be unable to do anything for weeks at a time, and we have noone elsewho can back him up.2) Rehost to daves office workstation.GoodDave had said he was considering that, and it would give us free access. BadBut that could be pressing things with his company; and could get yankedin short order if Dave gets a new job, or the company orders him to removeit. Also we seem to have problems with geting things working on hisworkstation.3) rehost to one or more of our private accounts. GoodStill low cost. We all have various accounts, and one or more could holdthe active parts of SSD. I thought about loading things into my AOLaccount, Ben just offered ect. I could set up a mail newletter easy enough.A comercial account would get comercial system support (real back upsdone by someone else!)BadBut we tend to come and go. If one of us left, or became unavalible for awhile, they could crater SSD.4) Piggy back on Kevins start up busness. As Kevin listedSSD pay part of the $30.00 / month (and $40.00 start-up) and gets part of30 Megs of fast! storage space from a company called tabnet.http://www.tabnet.com/Good- FTP Access to the main site. No need to have two sites going. - E-mailand Majordomo. We can get the mailing list started again! and auto-foreward mail addresses like KevinH@urly-bird, or TimV@urly-bird which would send the mail on to our normal addresses. - A SysAdmin(Kevin) who is committed to supporting us. Also SSD could start geting comercial sponcers from space related groups(Magazines and interest groups for example) I'm making some inquires. Wedon't get a ton of traffic (thou that could improve if we could keep thesite active and updated) but we should be able to defray some of thesecosts.We also get to help Kevin in his new busness. (And I get to start showingoff my web skills on My resume!)BadOn the other hand start up busnesses usually fail. We could wind up lookingfor a new home. (we definately would want to get a InterNIC DomainRegistration name so people could link to us with a name we couldtransfer quickly to a new site. But that would add another $100 start upcost.) And of course we are cheap sorts and don't want to pay. 4) A friend I know in DC has started up a web busness there and just(yesterday) offered to host us for free to help advertize his site. Goods and Bads are about the same for Kevs site. Except, its free again,but my friend is a bit of a flake and might dump us or go out of busness. 5) AOL might host usAs you probably all know America OnLine has a massive presence on thenet (hint: their Network is 1/3rd of the Internets backbone) and offersserver host functions. What I just found out yesterday (the timing of allthis is weird?) is that AOL donates serves and equipment to worthycauses and interests. I'm talking with them now. They supprt list server(like our newsletter) for free, and MAY be willing to give us an account. GoodLots of free support and authoring software If anybody stays on the netthey will!Fast access to the net (no suprize there). Disk Space: 50MBTransfer allowance: 1,500MB per monthThis is equivalent to a 100KB file being uploaded or downloaded 500 timesa day.FTP access to your siteStandard scripts for hit counters, form handling, and email. Create yourown email aliases, such as info@yourdomain.com -- free of charge.BadIf they don't want to support us for free their rates are high. For a basic (Domain) account.$ 99 - Onetime Startup Fee (for current AOL members!) $ 100 - InitialInterNIC Domain Registration (2 year registration) $ 99 - Per month____$298 - Total to be launchedI guess my thoughs are that we should look at geting off of SunSite. Theyarn't very supportive, and we need to get somewhere we can support oursite and reactivate it. But we probably should not put things on one of ourprivate accounts or office systems. Its too likly that that someone couldhave a change of interest or suddenly find we over run what their accountprovider will tolerate.I'm also concerned over accepting Kevin's offer, and even more reluctantto accept my friend in D.C's offer. Eiather could run into problems and foldout from under us or just lose. Kevin isn't likly to lose interest, and Idoubt he'll just dump us without warning (I just got Dave's horror story),but he could run into problems. If so we might be forced to pitch in somemoney for a while. On the other hand we might attract enough sponsershipfrom space related groups to by the overhead. (I talked to the guy at theInterstelar propulsion group and he said they have gotten far moreinterest and input then they expected. This suprised me since they seemlike a dead site and even the admin addreses are dead, but if the can do itand get a bit of sponcership we should be able to get a bit.) I guess my thought would be that a major sponcer like AOL (whos richenough write us off as a novelty forever) could provide us with a stablehigh quality site. Which sounds ideal, if they are interested. Kevin wouldbe a good secound. He's motivated and VERY unlikly to casually burn us, andmoving to a comercial site could be self supporting and more stable. Butthe cost could become a problem; and he could go broke or be overwelmedby his new busness. Which brings us back to staying at Sunsite. (I'ld rejectthe other two options as undesirable unless SunSite bails.) I guess the questions we need to resolve are: What do we want to do with LIT?Its newsletter have been off-line for most of a year and the siteunmodified for longer (I think?). If we don't want to do much, we can justleave it at SunSite until they dump it. If we want to reactivate it andupgrade things more frequently, can SunSite support that? How much work do we want to put into?It needs restructuring and cleaning, updates to contents, and restart tothe newsletters. Dave's on-line university dream doesn't seem to bedeveloping. But a space development group could be added and could belinked to other space advocacy groups, and SSD seems likely to generatelongterm interest. Especially since we're making some progress on thedesigns. If we want to do more, we need to figure out how much supportwe'll need, and what kind off account service it would take to supply it. (Iwant the site refurbed and upgraded by the fall semester!! I'ld prefer itsooner!)What are the bottle necks that are geting in our way, and which optionoffers the best chance of getting around them? Well I've given my overview of options and pros and cons. Please argue thepoints or state your views.Kelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------=================================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: Kevin 'Tex' Houston<hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>, "'kgstar@most.fw.hac.com'" <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com> Cc:"KellySt@aol.com" <KellySt@aol.com>, "T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "stevev@efn.org"<stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl>, "rddesign@wolfenet.com"<rddesign@wolfenet.com> Cc: "lparker@destin.gulfnet.com"<lparker@destin.gulfnet.com>, "DotarSojat@aol.com" <DotarSojat@aol.com>, "sl0c8@cc.usu.edu"<sl0c8@cc.usu.edu>,"MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU"<MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU>, "101765.2200@CompuServe.COM"<101765.2200@CompuServe.COM>, "neill@foda.math.usu.edu"<neill@foda.math.usu.edu> Cc: "Lessa@worldnet.att.net"<Lessa@worldnet.att.net> Subject: RE: New? LIT site.Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:52:39 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0>I think were all tired of Sunsites erratic problems. (Parts of LIT disapperor stop functioning. ) Given some of Daves comments and A note on this - SunSITE is getting better. As a whole, the system isalways running, because of the vast number of projects its supports.They've recently upgraded their connection speed (and claim to have one ofthe highest bandwidth connections on the net... it's still somewhat slowdue to the sheer volume of traffic it supports) and instituted a new,comprehensive backup policy.Also, my basic idea has been not to relocate LIT to my computer, but usemy computer as a "staging server", with the main access point to LITremaining at SunSITE. This gives everyone access (via my computer) to thesite, while still keeping it at a high profile (and stable) site. I have to admit, if AOL gives that kind of stuff out for free, it sounds veryattractive.As for the size of the site... I'm not sure. It's quite large, currentlymultiplemegs - there's some AVI files floating around, and the archivesthemselves are quite big. I'm guessing it's 10 megs, but that's a guess.Obviously, it would grow frequently if we set things up right. I'll check the map stuff later today.Restructuring the LIT config? You'll have to be more specific, please. -dml==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 16:07:16 -0500To: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com>From: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: RE:New? LIT site.Cc: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>, "'kgstar@most.fw.hac.com'" <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, "KellySt@aol.com"<KellySt@aol.com>,"T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "stevev@efn.org"<stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl>, "rddesign@wolfenet.com"<rddesign@wolfenet.com> At 11:52 AM 7/10/96, David Levine wrote: >Restructuring the LIT config? You'll have to be more specific, please. >-dmlFor example: The main lit home page has a link to the school of star shipdesign, which has a link to an index of services and the project page. Thelast two have virtually the same links, and almost all the links in the lastthree are in my Starship Design Project page. In a similar way somerelated member lists, member web pages, and communication pages couldbe murged.Branches to pages listing classes, student organizations, student Kiosketc serve no purpose. (Thou we might want to set up special eventfunctions for chat events, seminars or anything else we may add later.) The Main LIT home page has branches to:Access StatisticsCollege of Engineering, School of Marine Sciences College of Engineering,School of Mining College of Engineering, School of Starship Design Collegeof MedicineSchool of Exo-Science and Alien StudiesStudent OrganizationsOf theseAccess StatisticsCollege of Engineering, School of Marine Sciences No LinkCollege of Engineering, School of Mining College of Engineering, School ofStarship Design College of MedicineNo linkSchool of Exo-Science and Alien StudiesInteresting but parts are still broken like Archaeo seti. Part seems morelike a games area. Parts would fit in SSD under exobio.Student OrganizationsOnly lists MST3K. We could list this under Member interests (along withB5 and a few other things. ;) Give these problems and you latest commentt Dave. How about: Access StatisticsMarine Development Project (If You still want to try it?) Near EarthDevelopment ProjectI figure Lunar mining and exploration would fit in this Cat Solar systenDevelopment ProjectSolar system exploration, Mining, etc would fit in here. Starship DesignProjectThe star ship design project With some of the exobiology parts Some text explaining the site might be good here, and a link to themembers info.Comments? Shock? Horror? Disinterest?I have charts diagraming the old and new proposed if anyones interested.(Slow day, and the new Map program didn't work out to well.) Kelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMessage-Id: <v01530505ae09c48d6984@[151.168.146.187]> Mime-Version: 1.0Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Jul 199616:07:16 -0500To: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com>From: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: RE:New? LIT site.Cc: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>, "'kgstar@most.fw.hac.com'" <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, "KellySt@aol.com"<KellySt@aol.com>,"T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "stevev@efn.org"<stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl>, "rddesign@wolfenet.com"<rddesign@wolfenet.com> At 11:52 AM 7/10/96, David Levine wrote: >Restructuring the LIT config? You'll have to be more specific, please. >-dmlFor example: The main lit home page has a link to the school of star shipdesign, which has a link to an index of services and the project page. Thelast two have virtually the same links, and almost all the links in the lastthree are in my Starship Design Project page. In a similar way somerelated member lists, member web pages, and communication pages couldbe murged.Branches to pages listing classes, student organizations, student Kiosketc serve no purpose. (Thou we might want to set up special eventfunctions for chat events, seminars or anything else we may add later.) The Main LIT home page has branches to:Access StatisticsCollege of Engineering, School of Marine Sciences College of Engineering,School of Mining College of Engineering, School of Starship Design Collegeof MedicineSchool of Exo-Science and Alien StudiesStudent OrganizationsOf theseAccess StatisticsCollege of Engineering, School of Marine Sciences No LinkCollege of Engineering, School of Mining College of Engineering, School ofStarship Design College of MedicineNo linkSchool of Exo-Science and Alien StudiesInteresting but parts are still broken like Archaeo seti. Part seems morelike a games area. Parts would fit in SSD under exobio.Student OrganizationsOnly lists MST3K. We could list this under Member interests (along withB5 and a few other things. ;) Give these problems and you latest commentt Dave. How about: Access StatisticsMarine Development Project (If You still want to try it?) Near EarthDevelopment ProjectI figure Lunar mining and exploration would fit in this Cat Solar systenDevelopment ProjectSolar system exploration, Mining, etc would fit in here. Starship DesignProjectThe star ship design project With some of the exobiology parts Some text explaining the site might be good here, and a link to themembers info.Comments? Shock? Horror? Disinterest?I have charts diagraming the old and new proposed if anyones interested.(Slow day, and the new Map program didn't work out to well.) Kelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================================Date:Wed, 10 Jul 1996 07:17:24 -0500From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <mailer-daemon@driene.student.utwente.nl> Subject: Returned mail: Host unknownTo: <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>Mime-Version: 1.0Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Description: SessionTranscript550 student.utwente.nl (tcp)... Host unknown 550<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>... 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If you can figure outwhy the map links on my nice table of content graphics on the developmentsite don't work I'ld appreciate it.>>If you want to take a crack at progrmaing an active table to computingrelatavistic fuel ratios for ships, or microwave power needed for a sailship, that would help too. (I'm trying to recruit someone whos trying to donumeric analysis, and we could use some numbers.) (Don't worry none of usare comfortable with all these equations.) >>Or just nose around looking for other web sites, newsgroups, etc withinfo on starships, space, fusion energy or something. If its good we canadd it or refference it. (I've done a few scans, but the term starship buriesyou under tons of startrek stuff!>>Kelly Starks>>From what I've read, Kelly, it seems you are very busy. I do have space on >my web site, as well as time to maintain the LIT page, so... the offerstands. I would actually enjoy hosting the web site, and believe me thoselinks would pile up quickly! Anyway, just an offer. >BenThanks Ben. I'm not realy short of space, just time. I also think its a goodidea to consolodate the project stuff on one central site not distributedamoung peoples personal sites. (Our members tend to come and go. Whichcould cause sections of the system to disapear with them.) On the otherhand having some assistence in sorting out links and checking out the webpages would be great. I'll see what we can set up. >About the programming, I am currently trying to learn a bit of Java orJavaScript so I can put the programs up on a web site. Sounds good. We'll have to coordinate efforts. Right now I'ld guess the priorities should probably be in geting the newweb pages cleaned, seting up a new set of web links, and restaring thenewsletters.(Comments group?)We'll talk in a bit.Kelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------=============================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: "'kgstar@most.fw.hac.com'"<kgstar@most.fw.hac.com> Cc: Kevin 'Tex' Houston<hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>, "KellySt@aol.com"	 <KellySt@aol.com>,"T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"	 <T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "stevev@efn.org"	 <stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu"	 <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl"	 <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl>Cc: "rddesign@wolfenet.com" <rddesign@wolfenet.com> Subject: RE: New?LIT site.Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 17:24:09 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0I fixed the TOC map for you to work properly with IIS now. I have aconversion programthat will let me convert it back to NCSA when we mirror it later. One comment, though. The TOC graphic is 190k. Perhaps I should change itto a JPEGand see if it's any smaller?>Marine Development Project (If You still want to try it?) Yup. Basically I'm going to start with the Europa Underwater Explorer,which comes upso often in sci.space.tech that it should be in a FAQ somewhere. >Solar systen Development Project>Solar system exploration, Mining, etc would fit in here. Also a sort of compliment-site to SSD, but for in-system craft (i.e. morerealistictechnology, more believable that it could happen soon) >Comments? Shock? Horror? Disinterest?New organization seems good.David============================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: "KellySt@aol.com"<KellySt@aol.com>, "hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu"	 <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>,"T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "stevev@efn.org"<stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl> To:"rddesign@wolfenet.com" <rddesign@wolfenet.com>, "lparker@destin.gulfnet.com" <lparker@destin.gulfnet.com>,"DotarSojat@aol.com" <DotarSojat@aol.com>, "sl0c8@cc.usu.edu"<sl0c8@cc.usu.edu>,"MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU"<MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU>, "101765.2200@compuserve.com"<101765.2200@compuserve.com> To: "'kgstar@most.fw.hac.com'"<kgstar@most.fw.hac.com> Subject: OTPDate: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 17:28:15 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0Anyone out there with a fast connection (ISDN or above), Netscape 3.0beta, anda Windows machine want to help me test out a multiplayer java game? I need to see what its response time is over the internet in general. Already tried MSIE (doesn't work yet... java support very buggy) and Mac(doesn't workyet... java support very buggy) and I'm not ready to test over modems yet.Butour local subnet tests have been very positive so far. Anyway, it's fun -whaddya say?==================================================================Date:Wed, 10 Jul 1996 18:30:21 -0400X-Sender:pbakelaar@hiway1.exit109.com (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0To: zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa), KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl,stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl,rddesign@wolfenet.com, David@interworld.com,lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com, sl0c8@cc.usu.edu,MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,kgstar@most.fw.hac.com, neill@foda.math.usu.edu From: Philip Bakelaar<pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: Re: New? LIT site.At 01:58 PM 7/10/96 +0200, Zenon Kulpa wrote: >Seems interesting to me. At least, this has a chance to be a"professional" site with constant maintenance and little or no problemswith the provider... (or am I mistaken? ;-)>There is the Ben's proposal, too, but it seems less "professional" in theabove sense (sorry, Ben...). Thats OK Zenon. As long as whoever runs the site has time enough tomaintain it! My offer still stands though, and actually, I was thinking ofcollecting $5 each (voluntary, of course) to get a domain name.>>If there is enough talk against it, I will withdraw. I don't want there to be>>multiple sites with sets of people who don't talk to each other. ugh! Jeez.. do you think that could really happen? Actually, I guess i *maybe*could see how, but that still is not cool. Even though I want very much tohost the web site, I will of course back down on my offer, especially sinceI have been a member for only 2 days! >:)>>2) Your monetary help. Requested only. no pressure. no special recognition either>>way. Judging from the size of the mailing list, I would ask $10.00 from each of>>you to help with start-up costs.Isn't someone on this mailing list already an Internet provider. I thought ifound (GulfNet) as one of the users home pages. Well, anyway, if they areon here, wouldn't they be able to offer discount rates and stuff? I reallydon't know alot about ISPs, so maybe this is impossible.. an idea, anyway. >>I hope to sell server space for>>$2.00/Megabyte/month and to sell ads.>Do you mean ads will be displayed at the LIT pages? It has its advantages(e.g., possibility for sponsorships) and disadvantages (e.g., labelling thesite as "commercial"). I personally think ads are a bad idea, *UNLESS* they are only space-related. For example, get Nasa, the NSS, and others to sort of advertise.Maybe we could work out some deal where all the major space sites (Nasa,LIT, Seds, NSS, whatever else) advertise on each others page. This wouldbe good for the scientific world. If you want to know how it would begood, well, I searched for many days in the past looking for space websites and such, but I only found star trek stuff and LIT. I never heard ofSeds and NSS before Zenon (thanx, Zenon!) Those are my thoughts...==================================================================Date:Wed, 10 Jul 1996 22:00:41 -0400X-Sender:pbakelaar@hiway1.exit109.comMime-Version: 1.0To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.eduFrom: Philip Bakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: My (temporary)LIT Site...OK.. first off, I am not implying that my page will be our permanent one.Just look at the subject title of this letter. The purpose is to gatherinformation so that when our permanent site is made (once again!) we willhave all this stuff.Please visit my site @:http://www.exit109.com/~pbakelaar/lirRight now it IS under construction, but the space programs ARE working,except for the Time Distance one. I could not figure out how to convert theBASIC formula into a Java one. If anyone has any ideas, EMail me!==================================================================Date:Wed, 10 Jul 1996 21:41:25 -0700From: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Mime-Version:1.0To: Zenon Kulpa <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl>Cc: KellySt@aol.com, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl,stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@InterWorld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@CompuServe.COM, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com, zkulpa@lksu.ippt.gov.plSubject: Re: New? LIT site.Zenon Kulpa wrote:>Seems interesting to me. At least, this has a chance to be a"professional" site with constant maintenance and little or no problemswith the provider... Is that a yes, a no, or a maybe?>>2) Your monetary help. Requested only. no pressure. no specialrecognition either >>way. Judging from the size of the mailing list, I would ask $10.00 fromeach of you to help with start-up costs.>This may scare away some of us, especially these far away... I must not have been very clear. I would not ask for money again. I'm onlyasking it of those now on the mail-list (If you are reading this, then I'masking you) but new members would not be asked.>>I hope to sell server space for>>$2.00/Megabyte/month and to sell ads.>Do you mean ads will be displayed at the LIT pages? Ads _could_ be displayed, that is not mandatory. it certainly requiresgroup concensus before hand. I mostly meant that URLY-BIRD.com wold beselling server space and ads. >It has its advantages (e.g., possibility for sponsorships) anddisadvantages (e.g., labelling the site as "commercial"). www.urly-bird.com _will_ be a commercial site. SSD may join that siteand display ads or not.Kevin==================================================================Date:Wed, 10 Jul 1996 21:57:14 -0700From: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Mime-Version:1.0To: David Levine <David@interworld.com>Cc: "kgstar@most.fw.hac.com" <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, "neill@foda.math.usu.edu" <neill@foda.math.usu.edu>,"pbakelaar@exit109.com" <pbakelaar@exit109.com>,"'zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl'" <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl>, zkulpa<zkulpa@interworld.com>Subject: Re: New? LIT site.David Levine wrote:>>>2) Your monetary help. Requested only. no pressure. no special >Yes, these were my two concerns as well. Obviously, $10 is not a lot ofmoney... but I always wanted it to be totally free to everyone, just to sortof "take the pressure off". And while I'm not concerned with labelling thesite commercial (we could just call it a "sponsorship"... certainly we won'tbe endorsing a certain brand of starship... corporate sponsorship reallycan't affect the content of such a site) I don't know if LIT itself wouldattract>any sponsorship... the number of hits is (while high for a science site)depressingly low for commercial use. However, Kevin has already told methat even "if that [a high hit count] never happened, i would be pleased aspunch to have LIT at my web server."Yes, that is what I said and I stand behind it. As I said to Zenon, I won'task for money on any kind of on-going basis. This is one-time start-uprequest, and new members won't be asked for donantions for web-sitemaintenance. URLY-BIRD.com will be selling it's web space at $2.00 permegabyte to many other clients (not just SSD) I am willing to bury SSD'sweb space in that profit. I only need to sell 15 megabytes (out of 30) tocover my monthly expenses. until I get that many clients, I expect to losemoney. urly-bird will have other features (like a comic strip) and so I hopethat many who come to the SSD site, will come back for the comics. Dave'sAlien encounter games are good also, urly-bird.com might be willing tooffer a prize for such a contest (just thinking out loud) >The only other reason I may seem apprehensive about all this is that I hada very very similar offer of help once before from a guy who was thesysadmin for a major ISP in Chicago - we had our own domain name(lunar.org), unlimited space, a helpful sysadmin, *fast* access times, etc.But eventually he ran into problems providing time and space, and hisbosses asked him to shut LIT down - - without warning, the web site wasinaccessable. I could still log on, but ALL THE FILES WERE GONE. Luckily,after much yelling he was able to return most of my stuff, which Ieventually got SunSITE to accept.... I know they're not going away. Nowwhile I know Kevin has the best (BEST) intentions, and has no plans ongiving up on LIT... well, you see, I have to be careful and plan for futurecontingencies, no matter how unlikely they seem now. Yes, I understand that. That's why I think we should start with SSD first.It is very possible that I won't be able to afford to stay in business. But Ithink the site will stay. and since I pay the bills, there is no "Boss" to tellme to shut it down. If there is one thing you must have noticed with me bynow, it is that I am passionate about this subject. Kevin==================================================================Date:Wed, 10 Jul 1996 22:26:22 -0700From: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Mime-Version:1.0To: Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com> Cc: DavidLevine <David@interworld.com>, KellySt@aol.com, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com, sl0c8@cc.usu.edu,MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU, 101765.2200@CompuServe.COM,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, Lessa@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: New? LITsite.Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 wrote:>4) Piggy back on Kevins start up busness. >As Kevin listed>SSD pay part of the $30.00 / month (and $40.00 start-up) and gets part of30 Megs of fast! storage space from a company called tabnet.http://www.tabnet.com/>Good>- FTP Access to the main site. No need to have two sites going. - E-mailand Majordomo. We can get the mailing list started again! >and auto-foreward mail addresses like KevinH@urly-bird, or TimV@urly-bird which would send the mail on to our normal addresses. - A SysAdmin(Kevin) who is committed to supporting us. >Also SSD could start geting comercial sponcers from space relatedgroups (Magazines and interest groups for example) I'm making someinquires. We don't get a ton of traffic (thou that could improve if we couldkeep the site active and updated) but we should be able to defray some ofthese costs.>We also get to help Kevin in his new busness. (And I get to start showingoff my web skills on My resume!)>Bad>On the other hand start up busnesses usually fail. We could wind uplooking for a new home. (we definately would want to get a InterNICDomain Registration name so people could link to us with a name we couldtransfer quickly to a new site. But that would add another $100 start upcost.) And of course we are cheap sorts and don't want to pay. URLY-bird.com is an InterNIC domain name, and if my business fails, I'd beglad to donate the name to the group. It'll be paid for two years. (I will payfor this wether or not you guys chip in) the question in my mind is wetherto go for the server options, or just point urly-bird to my school account. >5) AOL might host us>Bad>If they don't want to support us for free their rates are high. For a basic (Domain) account.>$ 99 - Onetime Startup Fee (for current AOL members!) $ 100 - InitialInterNIC Domain Registration (2 year registration) $ 99 - Per month>____>$298 - Total to be launchedOuch. If we're going to pay that much, then let's just get our own serverspace and InterNIC Domain name. forgot about urly-bird, let's just get areal site. from Tabnet we could get the same thing for: 	$ 50.00 Tabnet's Domain name registration fee. 	$100.00 InterNICRegistration fee (2 years) 	$ 50.00 for 50 megs	_______	$200.00 To launch, and only $50.00 /mo. >I'm also concerned over accepting Kevin's offer, and even more reluctantto I understand these concerns all of you have expressed. I just want to saythat I won't be hurt if you guys decide to go with some other option. pleasedo not base your decisions on our friendship.>accept my friend in D.C's offer. Eiather could run into problems and foldout from under us or just lose. Kevin isn't likly to lose interest, and Idoubt he'll just dump us without warning (I just got Dave's horror story),but he could run into problems. If so we might be forced to pitch in somemoney for a while. On the other hand we might attract enough sponsership I suppose this could happen, if so, the overhead would amount to$30.00/mo. >from space related groups to by the overhead. (I talked to the guy at theInterstelar propulsion group and he said they have gotten far moreinterest and input then they expected. This suprised me since they seemlike a dead site and even the admin addreses are dead, but if the can do itand get a bit of sponcership we should be able to get a bit.) >I guess my thought would be that a major sponcer like AOL (whos richenough write us off as a novelty forever) could provide us with a stablehigh Or until they see enough activity at the site that they think we can pay forit. I see real potential "blackmail" problems. ie. It would be such a hasselto look for a new site that we would be unwilling to move. I would preferto stay at Sunsite than go to AOL.>quality site. Which sounds ideal, if they are interested. Kevin would be agood secound. He's motivated and VERY unlikly to casually burn us, andmoving to a comercial site could be self supporting and more stable. Butthe cost could become a problem; and he could go broke or be overwelmedby his new busness. Which brings us back to staying at Sunsite. (I'ld rejectthe other two options as undesirable unless SunSite bails.) As for time constraints, having multiple access codes to the site, wouldallow us all to take over Sysadmin duties if needed. Kevin==================================================================Date:Wed, 10 Jul 1996 22:35:39 -0700From: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Mime-Version:1.0To: Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com> Cc:KellySt@aol.com, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl,rddesign@wolfenet.com, David@interworld.com,lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com, sl0c8@cc.usu.edu,MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,lessa@worldnet.att.netSubject: Re: New? LIT site.Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 wrote:>Whos Lessa@worldnet.att.net ?a temporary asddress for Tim while he's at Rex's place.===============================================================================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, 'Kevin 'Tex' Houston' <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Cc: "KellySt@aol.com"<KellySt@aol.com>, "T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "stevev@efn.org"<stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl>, "rddesign@wolfenet.com"<rddesign@wolfenet.com> Cc: "lparker@destin.gulfnet.com"<lparker@destin.gulfnet.com>, "DotarSojat@aol.com" <DotarSojat@aol.com>, "sl0c8@cc.usu.edu"<sl0c8@cc.usu.edu>,"MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU"<MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU>, "101765.2200@CompuServe.COM"<101765.2200@CompuServe.COM>, "neill@foda.math.usu.edu"<neill@foda.math.usu.edu> Cc: "Lessa@worldnet.att.net"<Lessa@worldnet.att.net> Subject: RE: New? LIT site.==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:20:05 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0Regarding AOL...>Ouch. If we're going to pay that much, then let's just get our own serverspace and>InterNIC Domain name. forgot about urly-bird, let's just get a real site. Well, of course, I agree here - I wouldn't suggest going to AOL unless wegot the"free version.">>I guess my thought would be that a major sponcer like AOL (whos rich >enough>>write us off as a novelty forever) could provide us with a stable high >Or until they see enough activity at the site that they think we can payfor it.>I see real potential "blackmail" problems. ie. It would be such a hassel tolook>for a new site that we would be unwilling to move. I would prefer to stayat>Sunsite than go to AOL.Okay, I suppose I hadn't thought of that... could they at some point ask usto payif our traffic was high enough? What kind of history do they have rightnow withtheir free accounts?The other thing is that Ric said:>My only problem with AOL is thier flakey billing policies and overpricing..........Would we have to put up with thier continual "down loading">graphics..................I guess in short I don't trust AOL.....but that is>my problem..........I think the thing here is that the site would not be "on" AOL (i.e. wewouldn'thave to dial-in, get accounts, pay, etc) but rather AOL hosts the site ontheirweb servers. So if we get the space for free, and its accessable from theweb,and they don't go back on the free thing, then its a good deal. If we don'tget free space or its not accessable from the web, then its not. Back to Kevin:>As for time constraints, having multiple access codes to the site, wouldallow>us all to take over Sysadmin duties if needed. Also true.-David==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 96 16:03:49 +0200From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com Subject: Re: My(temporary) LIT Site...>From pbakelaar@exit109.com Thu Jul 11 04:01:31 1996 >Please visit my site @:>http://www.exit109.com/~pbakelaar/lirYou mean http://www.exit109.com/~pbakelaar/lit ? ;-) -- Zenon===============================================================================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: "'kgstar@most.fw.hac.com'"<kgstar@most.fw.hac.com> Cc: Kevin 'Tex' Houston<hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>, "KellySt@aol.com"	 <KellySt@aol.com>,"T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"	 <T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "stevev@efn.org"	 <stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu"	 <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl"	 <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl>Subject: RE: New? LIT site.Date:Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:17:14 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0>Hum, I noticed some of the TOCs work and some don't. For example the theMain Toc takes you to the Exploorer TOC. But a selection in that justbounces you back.Yeah, I only did the first one so far. Sorry. >Great! I'll take a crack at it and load the new stuff in your site forreview. Since I seem to be the only one whos hates the Lunar Institute ofTechnology name I'll leave it on the master home page <sigh>. Heh. <Grin>. Well, if you want, maybe we can take out the "Est. 2032" stuffand put ourselves more solidly in the present, designing a starship forsixty-oddyears from now (rather than our current designing a starship for the"present day"in 2055 or whatever...). We call ourselves "LIT" because we're staking aclaim... Whenwe DO return to the moon, the eastern edge of Copernicus is OURS toestablisha school at....-David==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 96 16:17:05 +0200From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com Subject: Re: New? LITsite.>From hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu Thu Jul 11 04:50:08 1996 >Zenon Kulpa wrote:>>Seems interesting to me. At least, this has a chance to be a"professional" site with constant maintenance and little or no problemswith the provider... >Is that a yes, a no, or a maybe?A maybe, plus some thoughts on possible advantages... >>>2) Your monetary help. Requested only. no pressure. no specialrecognition either >>>way. Judging from the size of the mailing list, I would ask $10.00 fromeach of you to help with start-up costs.>>This may scare away some of us, especially these far away... >I must not have been very clear. I would not ask for money again. I'm onlyasking it of those now on the mail-list (If you are reading this, then I'masking you) but new members would not be asked.I meant, sending money from Poland to US to a private person is really apain in the neck...>>>I hope to sell server space for>>>$2.00/Megabyte/month and to sell ads. >>Do you mean ads will be displayed at the LIT pages? >Ads _could_ be displayed, that is not mandatory. it certainly requiresgroup concensus before hand. I mostly meant that URLY-BIRD.com wold beselling server space and ads. >>It has its advantages (e.g., possibility for sponsorships) anddisadvantages (e.g., labelling the site as "commercial"). >www.urly-bird.com _will_ be a commercial site. SSD may join that siteand display ads or not. OK, I only asked about ads on LIT pages - if their dispaly there would bemandatory, or desirable. I know now it will not be mandatory,but will it be desirable (useful, better do it or else... ?). -- Zenon==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 96 16:52:20 +0200From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com, lessa@worldnet.att.netSubject: Re: New? LIT site.>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 16:25:28 1996 >Ah, Kev. Zenon is in Poland. You can probably hire a researcher in hiscenter for a year for $20.>;)Not be too excited, Kevin...Actually, I would ask for much more ;-))) >Actually I like the idea of adds. Besides the money aspect, it gives us amore succesful and profesional image. No one sponcers or advertises onfools pages. So if we can get a couple sponcership icons from crediblegroups (aerospace or space related especially) it would give us morecredibility. Not critical, but a plus.Yes, I think it is possibly true -if the ads were from the credible groups. -- Zenon==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 96 16:44:39 +0200From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com, lessa@worldnet.att.netSubject: RE: New? LIT site.>From David@InterWorld.com Thu Jul 11 16:17:27 1996 >Heh. <Grin>. Well, if you want, maybe we can take out the "Est. 2032"stuff>and put ourselves more solidly in the present, designing a starship forsixty-odd>years from now (rather than our current designing a starship for the"present day">in 2055 or whatever...). We call ourselves "LIT" because we're staking aclaim... When>we DO return to the moon, the eastern edge of Copernicus is OURS toestablish>a school at....Yep! I am for it!Long live Copernicus! (the crater, that is ;-) -- Zenon==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date:Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:04:29 -0500To: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)From: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re:My (temporary) LIT Site...Cc: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com At 4:03 PM 7/11/96, Zenon Kulpa wrote:>>From pbakelaar@exit109.com Thu Jul 11 04:01:31 1996 >>Please visit my site @:>>http://www.exit109.com/~pbakelaar/lir>You mean http://www.exit109.com/~pbakelaar/lit ? ;-) >-- ZenonOh, man I feel stupid for not seeing that. I guess I should have gotten moresleep.BenName: Kelly ?EMail: KellySt@aol.comWWW: ???Name: ???????EMail: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comWWW: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html Kgstar is my office Email address and I'ld prefer it not be published on theweb. (I guess I should work up a private web page.) Just leave the first entry.Name: Kelly ?EMail: KellySt@aol.comWWW: ???and deleat the secound.Other then that thou thats a good format for a members listing. When youget everones info you should alphabatize the list thou. Kelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:11:56 -0500To: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com>From: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: RE:New? LIT site.Cc: "'kgstar@most.fw.hac.com'" <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>, "KellySt@aol.com"		<KellySt@aol.com>,"T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"		<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "stevev@efn.org"		<stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu"		 <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl"		 <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl> At 10:17 AM 7/11/96, David Levine wrote: >>Hum, I noticed some of the TOCs work and some don't. For example thethe Main Toc takes you to the Exploorer TOC. But a selection in that justbounces you back.>Yeah, I only did the first one so far. Sorry. Hum. Just to make it more confusing. The unfixed TOC maps gave adifferent error. Obviously a deliberate attempt to confuse me. :( >>Great! I'll take a crack at it and load the new stuff in your site forreview. Since I seem to be the only one whos hates the Lunar Institute ofTechnology name I'll leave it on the master home page <sigh>. >Heh. <Grin>. Well, if you want, maybe we can take out the "Est. 2032"stuff>and put ourselves more solidly in the present, designing a starship forsixty-odd>years from now (rather than our current designing a starship for the"present day">in 2055 or whatever...). We call ourselves "LIT" because we're staking aclaim... When>we DO return to the moon, the eastern edge of Copernicus is OURS toestablish>a school at....>-David<Rolling eyes & shaking head> Ok, I'll write some intro text about that intothe home page. If we do become very comercial. You get to do the legalreseach to by the relestate at Copernicus. Kelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:16:37 -0500To: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)From: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re:New? LIT site.Cc: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com, lessa@worldnet.att.net At 4:52 PM 7/11/96, Zenon Kulpa wrote:>>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 16:25:28 1996 >>Ah, Kev. Zenon is in Poland. You can probably hire a researcher in hiscenter for a year for $20.>>;)>Not be too excited, Kevin...>Actually, I would ask for much more ;-))) Oh, a senior reseach person like yourself? I think LIT would spring for atleast $45!;)>>Actually I like the idea of adds. Besides the money aspect, it gives us amore succesful and profesional image. No one sponcers or advertises onfools pages. So if we can get a couple sponcership icons from crediblegroups (aerospace or space related especially) it would give us morecredibility. Not critical, but a plus.>Yes, I think it is possibly true ->if the ads were from the credible groups. >-- ZenonWe definatly would have to be a bit carefull about that and groups we postlinks to. No serious flakes like the Artemis society or something. Kelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:29:09 -0500To: Philip Bakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> From:kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re: My(temporary) LIT Site...Cc: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.eduName: Kelly ?EMail: KellySt@aol.comWWW: ???Kelly StarksI'm a computer systems analyst. I was born in Kenosha Wisconson, whichis just over the state line from Chicago. I graduated from a local collagewith a BS in Mechanical enginneering and computer science and about halfa physics degree. I worked for 7 years in Houston Texas developing a goodchunk of the shuttle flight planing software. Another 6 years in RestonVirginia (a Washington Dc subburb) verifing other people didn't mess upwhen they wrote software for the space station Freedom program. Beforethat folded I went downton and spent 2 years doing computer analysis andsupport at NASA headquarters. Then got dumped as they started their lay-offs. As this might suggest I'm very interested in space, and have thetechnical knowledge to follow up my interests. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:34:48 -0500To: Philip Bakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> From:kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re: My(temporary) LIT Site...Cc: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.eduI like the format for the Space equations programs, but none worked forme. I also liked the Web links page. I alread have one worked out, but didn'thave all of Zenons links. So I'll murge our two when I get a chance. Kelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 96 17:47:54 +0200From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com, lessa@worldnet.att.netSubject: Re: New? LIT site.>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 17:20:31 1996 >At 4:52 PM 7/11/96, Zenon Kulpa wrote:>>>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 16:25:28 1996 >>>Ah, Kev. Zenon is in Poland. You can probably hire a researcher in hiscenter for a year for $20.>>>;)>>Not be too excited, Kevin...>>Actually, I would ask for much more ;-))) >Oh, a senior reseach person like yourself? I think LIT would spring for atleast $45! >;)Ehem, try again...Actually I am making ten times this a month (really... ;-)) >>>Actually I like the idea of adds.>>>Besides the money aspect, it gives us a more succesful and profesionalimage. No one sponcers or advertises on fools pages. So if we can get acouple sponcership icons from credible groups (aerospace or space relatedespecially) it would give us more credibility. Not critical, but a plus.>>Yes, I think it is possibly true ->>if the ads were from the credible groups. >We definatly would have to be a bit carefull about that and groups wepost links to. No serious flakes like the Artemis society or something. Have you some more data/opinion on them? I would appreciate more info.I have stumbled at their Web pages recently and it looked quiteinteresting, though I have not studied them carefully.-- Zenon==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 96 17:57:07 +0200From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com, lessa@worldnet.att.netSubject: Re: My (temporary) LIT Site...>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 17:38:02 1996 >I like the format for the Space equations programs, but none worked forme. >I also liked the Web links page. I alread have one worked out, but didn'thave all of Zenons links. So I'll murge our two when I get a chance. Note some anchors are in Polish - they usually point to sites in Poland, butmost of them have English versions of their pages too. Note alsorepetitions of some links - they came from aliases made to put the entryin several thematic categories to which it fits. Note also that I haveposted all these links in HTML through my LIT alias, so you should receiveit by e-mail too, and twice at that... -- Zenon==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date:Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:22:11 -0500To: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)From: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re:New? LIT site.Cc: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com, lessa@worldnet.att.net At 5:47 PM 7/11/96, Zenon Kulpa wrote:>>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 17:20:31 1996 >>At 4:52 PM 7/11/96, Zenon Kulpa wrote: >>>>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 16:25:28 1996 >>>>Ah, Kev. Zenon is in Poland. You can probably hire a researcher in hiscenter for a year for $20.>>>>;)>>>Not be too excited, Kevin...>>>Actually, I would ask for much more ;-))) >>Oh, a senior reseach person like yourself? I think LIT would spring for atleast $45! >>;)>Ehem, try again...>Actually I am making ten times this a month (really... ;-)) Really? ;)A crule streak wants me to tell you what I make at a job so boring I havetime to do all this web work. (Hint: the soviets didn't call us decadentcapitalists for nothing!) ;) <Resist resist!> With your credentials here, I could get realy filthy rich! <Stop drooling onthe keyboard!>>>>>Actually I like the idea of adds.>>>>Besides the money aspect, it gives us a more succesful and profesionalimage. No one sponcers or advertises on fools pages. So if we can get acouple sponcership icons from credible groups (aerospace or space relatedespecially) it would give us more credibility. Not critical, but a plus.>>>Yes, I think it is possibly true ->>>if the ads were from the credible groups. >>We definatly would have to be a bit carefull about that and groups wepost links to. No serious flakes like the Artemis society or something. >Have you some more data/opinion on them? I would appreciate more info.>I have stumbled at their Web pages recently and it looked quiteinteresting, though I have not studied them carefully.>-- ZenonRegretably quite a bit. A friend from my Johnson space center days is alongtime family friend of the founder Greg Bennit (?). The place wasrecomended to me and some others in a group by another NASA researcherfrom Maryland. Given that the founder is an old NASA hand and haspublished a couple of articals on this concept (not in any technicalperiodical) I thought it might be interesting, so I tried it. Nasty.The basic concept is not well worked out. (the mission assumes shuttlecapacities well beyond anything it can do. NASA would have to risk itspolitical neck to support it, and would look like idiots for their trouble. He was assuming he could partially fund it by selling documentaries on theproject, but assumed he'ld make 10 times as much on them as Lucas did onthe starwars films. etc) The concept might be fixable, but the guy has gotten a power thing goingand takes questions as a personal attack. When I pointed out some of theproblems and suggested some alternates he accused me of just being aflake who droped in to start a flame on the web, and "I'ld see how theyhandel people like me".  He bounced me off the mailing list and set theirserver to reject my submissions. A few other members corresponded with me and said I had some greatideas, but I wasn't the first to get that kind of treatment.  One commentthat Greg, as a chain smoker, would have to give it up if he wanted to go orrisk ruining the airsystem.   That got a nasty attack even thou the personhad been a close family friend of his for many years.  Iv heard from mutualaquanteces that since hes started Artemis he's gotten very weird andegotistical, and theyÕve been trying to distence themself from him and theproject.All In all I'm not puting them on the LIT web links page. ;) Pity thou. I'ld like to see someone workout an idea like that. Kelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:04:09 -0400From: HeringLG@aol.comTo: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSubject: Re: Did you get yesterdays E-mail? Yeah, I got it, but haven't yet had time to download the files. Just checkedmy e-mail today but don't have time to linger. Thanks in advance.Len==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 1996 17:56:46 GMTX-Sender:Lessa@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Mime-Version: 1.0To: KellySt@aol.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com From: Rex & Timothy<Lessa@worldnet.att.net> Hi Kelly,My account probably hasn't been pulled in, I assume that "my" Email serverwas down for some unknown reason. From the headers that you sent me, Icould derive than not only my Email-account couldn't be found, but thewhole domain-name seemed to be inaccessable.So just ignore it, unless it happens again. Timothy==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 96 19:59:22 +0200From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com, lessa@worldnet.att.netSubject: Artemis Project>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 18:26:08 1996 >[... on Artemis Project]>Nasty.>[...]>Pity thou. I'ld like to see someone workout an idea like that. Yes, it really seems a pity.Frankly, at first reading your remark on them, I was inclined to think "ahh,just a NASA/government guy sneering at possibly more successfullcompetition from the private sector..." (sorry, Kelly, that may be somefallout from our former quarrels... ;-)). However, as you described it, itlooks sadly serious. Generally, I would appreciate from you informed guys over the Big Puddlesome more such "inside information" stories about the places pointed toby my space (and other) links (and other interesting places too). And concerning "someone working out an idea like that" - maybe, the SolarSystem Development Branch of LIT will do? Still with some hope,-- Zenon==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 96 19:59:20 +0200From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com, lessa@worldnet.att.netSubject: Decadent coke-drinkers>At 5:47 PM 7/11/96, Zenon Kulpa wrote:>>>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 17:20:31 1996 >>>At 4:52 PM 7/11/96, Zenon Kulpa wrote: >>>>>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 16:25:28 1996 >>>>>Ah, Kev. Zenon is in Poland. You can probably hire a researcher in hiscenter for a year for $20.>>>>>;)>>>>Not be too excited, Kevin...>>>>Actually, I would ask for much more ;-))) >>>Oh, a senior reseach person like yourself? I think LIT would spring forat least $45! >>>;)>>Ehem, try again...>>Actually I am making ten times this a month (really... ;-)) >Really? ;)>A crule streak wants me to tell you what I make at a job so boring I havetime to do all this web work. (Hint: the soviets didn't call us decadentcapitalists for nothing!) ;)Yes, I should know, I was working for two years+ in the States. And takinginto account our former quarrels about one-way missions, I am now doublysure... ;-)><Resist resist!>Yep, that seems your last chance, you rotting coke-drinkers... ;-) >With your credentials here, I could get realy filthy rich! That's not so easy as it seems (I tried ;-). ><Stop drooling on the keyboard!>Who, me? The candidate for a one-way mission?? ;-) >From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 18:29:53 1996 >>Note some anchors are in Polish - they usually point to sites in Poland,but most of them have English versions of their pages too. Note alsorepetitions of some links - they came from aliases made to put the entryin several thematic categories to which it fits. Note also that I haveposted all these links in HTML through my LIT alias, so you should receiveit by e-mail too, and twice at that... >>-- Zenon>If anything fails during testing we'll come looking for you. ;) >KellyWould you have enough vigor,you deteriorated two-way-couch-potatoes? ;-)) -- Zenon the Nasty though Otherwise Quite Amiable==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:35:57 -0500To: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)From: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re:Artemis ProjectCc: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com, lessa@worldnet.att.net At 7:59 PM 7/11/96, Zenon Kulpa wrote:>>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 18:26:08 1996 >>[... on Artemis Project]>>Nasty.>>[...]>>Pity thou. I'ld like to see someone workout an idea like that. >Yes, it really seems a pity.>Frankly, at first reading your remark on them, I was inclined to think"ahh, just a NASA/government guy sneering at possibly more successfullcompetition from the private sector..." (sorry, Kelly, that may be somefallout from our former quarrels... ;-)). However, as you described it, itlooks sadly serious. Yeah I know it sounds like sour grapes,but its more than that. Hell I'ld likeprivate secor people to out do NASA! I think NASA's been siting on itsreputation for over 20 years, and has unwittingly (I hope) convinced peoplethat space is imposible, impractical, and inaccessable for anyone smallerthem a multinational corporation. Space has been the most stagnentfrountier in centuries, and it doesn't need to be. >Generally, I would appreciate from you informed guys over the Big Puddlesome more such "inside information" stories about the places pointed toby my space (and other) links (and other interesting places too). Don't you know the old tradition of watching the tourists falling into thepotholes? I mean what fun would it be if we warned all you internationals!;)>And concerning "someone working out an idea like that" - maybe, theSolar System Development Branch of LIT will do? We can try. Well ... I do have this idea for mining oil from near earthobjects. Should be worth a couple hundred billion dollars each. If anyonesinterested? ;)>Still with some hope,>-- ZenonKelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:49:28 -0500To: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)From: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re:Decadent coke-drinkersCc: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com, lessa@worldnet.att.net At 7:59 PM 7/11/96, Zenon Kulpa wrote:>>At 5:47 PM 7/11/96, Zenon Kulpa wrote: >>>>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 17:20:31 1996 >>>>At 4:52 PM 7/11/96, Zenon Kulpa wrote: >>>>>>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 16:25:28 1996 >>>>>>Ah, Kev. Zenon is in Poland. You can probably hire a researcher >>in his>>>>>>center for a year for $20.>>>>>>;)>>>>>Not be too excited, Kevin...>>>>>Actually, I would ask for much more ;-))) >>>>Oh, a senior reseach person like yourself? I think LIT would spring forat least $45! >>>>;)>>>Ehem, try again...>>>Actually I am making ten times this a month (really... ;-)) >>Really? ;)>>A crule streak wants me to tell you what I make at a job so boring I havetime to do all this web work. (Hint: the soviets didn't call us decadentcapitalists for nothing!) ;)>Yes, I should know, I was working for two years+ in the States. Andtaking into account our former quarrels about one-way missions, I am nowdoubly sure... ;-)>><Resist resist!>>Yep, that seems your last chance, you rotting coke-drinkers... ;-) Oh don't be pithy, or we'll buy your country and kick you out! <Hum? Thedutch seem pretty hard up for real estate, and this doesn't have the wetbasemaent problems! Oh, TIM!!>>>With your credentials here, I could get realy filthy rich! >That's not so easy as it seems (I tried ;-). Well we don't show everything to the tourists. (Says the guy who got Laidof from NASA and baited out to Ft. Wayne Indiana.) Seriously thou I ran into another Ex_polish Physisit named Ion <image mydisbeleafg> Who was selling cars outside of Washington. >><Stop drooling on the keyboard!>>Who, me? The candidate for a one-way mission?? ;-) I supose their isn't a lot of jobs for latent Kamakazies. >>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 18:29:53 1996 >>>Note some anchors are in Polish - they usually point to sites in Poland,but most of them have English versions of their pages too. Note alsorepetitions of some links - they came from aliases made to put the entryin several thematic categories to which it fits. Note also that I haveposted all these links in HTML through my LIT alias, so you should receiveit by e-mail too, and twice at that... >>>-- Zenon>>If anything fails during testing we'll come looking for you. ;) >>Kelly>Would you have enough vigor,>you deteriorated two-way-couch-potatoes? ;-)) >-- Zenon the Nasty though Otherwise Quite Amiable No but I can hire some muscular weird folks from your area. (Did I mentiona grandfather of mine was a Royal Causac gard? (I know I misspelled that.)I hear they really don't like Poles.)OrIn cyber space you can't run or hide. <Sick'em cyber dog!> Kelly <May the hounds of cyber-hell chew on your E-mail> Starks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 96 21:39:33 +0200From: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)To: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com, lessa@worldnet.att.netSubject: Re: Decadent coke-drinkers>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 20:52:40 1996 >>>A crule streak wants me to tell you what I make at a job so boring Ihave time to do all this web work. (Hint: the soviets didn't call usdecadent capitalists for nothing!) ;)>>Yes, I should know, I was working for two years+ in the States. Andtaking into account our former quarrels about one-way missions, I am nowdoubly sure... ;-)>>><Resist resist!>>>Yep, that seems your last chance, you rotting coke-drinkers... ;-) >Oh don't be pithy, or we'll buy your country and kick you out! Heh heh. You possibly do not know, but when Misha the Big Bear growled atours here anticommunist stirrings all those years, the popular saying wasthat the best course for Poland would be to declare war against the US,and surrender the next day... But why kick us out? With all thatcredentials?? ;-) ><Hum? The>dutch seem pretty hard up for real estate, and this doesn't have the wetbasemaent problems! Oh, TIM!!>Chernobyl is VERY near, though!>>>With your credentials here, I could get realy filthy rich! >>That's not so easy as it seems (I tried ;-). >Well we don't show everything to the tourists. (Says the guy who got Laidof fromNASA and baited out to Ft. Wayne Indiana.) >Seriously thou I ran into another Ex_polish Physisit named Ion <image mydisbeleafg>Ion? Really? There is a Polish first name: Jan (pronounced Yahn - or howyou there would try to express with that yours clumsy spelling anti-rules), that is John in your parts. But Ion? Never heard that. >Who was selling cars outside of Washington. So you see..>>><Stop drooling on the keyboard!>>>Who, me? The candidate for a one-way mission?? ;-) >I supose their isn't a lot of jobs for latent Kamakazies. You bet?What about some Jihad or something?>>Would you have enough vigor,>>you deteriorated two-way-couch-potatoes? ;-)) >>-- Zenon the Nasty though Otherwise Quite Amiable >No but I can hire some muscular weird folks from your area. (Did Imention a grandfather of mine was a Royal Causac gard? Cossack Guard, I fancy (again, those weird "rules" of yours). >(I know I misspelled that.)What a modesty!You tend to misspell at least half your words. And who must tell you that- one of these bloody foreigners. ;-)) I wonder why my eyes did not getcrooked already on this list... >I hear they really don't like Poles.)Ahh, we gave them quite a bashing some 300 years ago. Possibly yourgrandfather remembers that? >Or>In cyber space you can't run or hide. <Sick'em cyber dog!> >Kelly <May the hounds of cyber-hell chew on your E-mail> Starks And on your urles too...-- Zenon Who Has No Time for Anything Except Some Witty Chat==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 15:26:50 -0500To: zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)From: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re:Decadent coke-drinkersCc: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com, lessa@worldnet.att.net At 9:39 PM 7/11/96, Zenon Kulpa wrote:>>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 20:52:40 1996 >>>>A crule streak wants me to tell you what I make at a job so boring Ihave time to do all this web work. (Hint: the soviets didn't call usdecadent capitalists for nothing!) ;)>>>Yes, I should know, I was working for two years+ in the States. Andtaking into account our former quarrels about one-way missions, I am nowdoubly sure... ;-)>>>><Resist resist!>>>>Yep, that seems your last chance, you rotting coke-drinkers... ;-) >>Oh don't be pithy, or we'll buy your country and kick you out! >Heh heh. You possibly do not know, but when Misha the Big Bear growledat ours here anticommunist stirrings all those years, the popular sayingwas that the best course for Poland would be to declare war against theUS, and surrender the next day... Well if you got to be conqured by someone, we're a much better choice thenthe Soviets. They send in the KGB and try to convince you its fun to haveAK-47's pointed at you. We send in Blue jeans and BayWatch reruns, andtry to convince you you want to live in california and hang out on the beachwhere very HOT ladys want to date you.You get lied to eiather way, but you'll really want to beleave us! >But why kick us out? With all that credentials?? ;-) Hey I'm trying to sell you country to the Dutch. I can't do that if its stilloccupied.<Hum.. The're nearly more polish-Americans in Chicago than Polish-polesin poland. If I can get them all to invight over relative the same week ----> >><Hum? The>>dutch seem pretty hard up for real estate, and this doesn't have the wetbasemaent problems! Oh, TIM!!>>Chernobyl is VERY near, though!Please. Without a very good giger counter you'ld never notice. Beside weretalking about people so desperate they're stealing realestate from clamsand seaweed! Ok, your countries a bit of a fixer-upper, but it has muchbetter drainage.< --- and when their all out of the country I bribe the border gaurds andrelable all the signs and airline maps ---> >>>>With your credentials here, I could get realy filthy rich! >>>That's not so easy as it seems (I tried ;-). >>Well we don't show everything to the tourists. (Says the guy who gotLaid of fromNASA and baited out to Ft. Wayne Indiana.) >>Seriously thou I ran into another Ex_polish Physisit named Ion <imagemy disbeleafg>>Ion? Really? There is a Polish first name: Jan (pronounced Yahn - or howyou there would try to express with that yours clumsy spelling anti-rules), that is John in your parts. But Ion? Never heard that. Was a first for me too. I can see why he had to take physics classes thou. < -- Sign the land deeds over to the Dutch and reticket the polish-??iansairline tickets to send them to California--> >>Who was selling cars outside of Washington. >So you see..>>>><Stop drooling on the keyboard!>>>>Who, me? The candidate for a one-way mission?? ;-) >>I supose their isn't a lot of jobs for latent Kamakazies. >You bet?>What about some Jihad or something?Thats a possibility. Are you willing to travel? <rapidly in severaldirections at once>>>>Would you have enough vigor,>>>you deteriorated two-way-couch-potatoes? ;-)) >>>-- Zenon the Nasty though Otherwise Quite Amiable >>No but I can hire some muscular weird folks from your area. (Did Imention a grandfather of mine was a Royal Causac gard? >Cossack Guard, I fancy (again, those weird "rules" of yours). >>(I know I misspelled that.)>What a modesty!>You tend to misspell at least half your words. Well, yeah that is a problem.>And who must tell you that - one of these bloody foreigners. ;-)) ?? Ah, I'm testing your linquistic skills. The fee for this service is.... >I wonder why my eyes did not get crooked already on this list... Well if I can't impress you with my ideas I'll keep you so confused youdon't know whats happening.>>I hear they really don't like Poles.)>Ahh, we gave them quite a bashing some 300 years ago. Well you know how some people hold grudges. >Possibly your grandfather remembers that? No his memory is a little soft past a century or two, but he does rememberhe has a grudge to carry.My bloodlines are Irish, Russian, German and Cossack. So I have aninstictive desire to drink, blow up British, and concur East euro-countries.>>Or>>In cyber space you can't run or hide. <Sick'em cyber dog!> >>Kelly <May the hounds of cyber-hell chew on your E-mail> Starks >And on your urles too...>-- Zenon Who Has No Time for Anything Except Some Witty Chat Kelly <-- supply them all with suntan lotion and you can concur the world>Starks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 1996 18:47:25 -0400X-Sender:pbakelaar@hiway1.exit109.comMime-Version: 1.0To: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) From: PhilipBakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: Re: My (temporary) LIT Site...Cc: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.eduAt 10:34 AM 7/11/96 -0500, Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 wrote: >I like the format for the Space equations programs, but none worked forme. Do you have a JavaScript capable browser? Namely, Netscape? That'spretty much the only browser that will work for those programs. :( Sorry, Idon't have access to CGI.. my web server does not allow it. Security issues. >I also liked the Web links page. I alread have one worked out, but didn'thave all of Zenons links. So I'll murge our two when I get a chance. That's good. Let me know when you do.Ben==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 1996 20:04:09 -0700From: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Mime-Version:1.0To: Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com> Cc: DavidLevine <David@InterWorld.com>, "neill@foda.math.usu.edu" <neill@foda.math.usu.edu>,"pbakelaar@exit109.com" <pbakelaar@exit109.com>,"'zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl'" <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl>, zkulpa<zkulpa@InterWorld.com>Subject: Re: New? LIT site.Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 wrote:>Fourtunately it is a small enough fee a couple of us could pick up the tabfor a while if Kevin started to go under. However we need to figure outhow big all of LIT is? If we find were taking up half his account spacewe'ld bury him.Okay, I guess I'm hearing that if I take any of LIT, I take all of it. It wouldbe nice to know the total amount of space. Dave, can you just give just thecurrent used space at sunsite. Don't worry about other things taking uproom, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that duplication and non-essentials are the norm. besides, that will give us an over-estimation. >>>his bosses asked him to shut LIT down - - without warning, the website was inaccessable. I could still log on, but ALL THE FILES WERE GONE.Luckily, after much yelling he was able to return most of my stuff, whichI eventually got SunSITE to accept.... I know they're not going away. Nowwhile I know Kevin has the best (BEST) intentions, and has no plans ongiving up on LIT... well, you see, I have to be careful and plan for futurecontingencies, no matter how unlikely they seem now. >>Yes, I understand that. That's why I think we should start with SSD first.It is very possible that I won't be able to afford to stay in business. But Ithink the site will stay. and since I pay the bills, there is no "Boss" to tell>>me to shut it down. If there is one thing you must have noticed with meby now,>>it is that I am passionate about this subject. >>Kevin>Good point. With your passion you might be crazy enough to pay for theLIT or SSD site out of pocket indefinatly. <?? Hummm> >KellyI understand your point, there are possiblities beyond my control thatcould force me out of business. but please understand my point. As long asI am in business, LIT would have a home.Kevin==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 1996 20:20:19 -0700From: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Mime-Version:1.0To: Zenon Kulpa <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl> Cc: KellySt@aol.com,T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@InterWorld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com, lessa@worldnet.att.netSubject: Re: New? LIT site.Zenon Kulpa wrote:>>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 16:25:28 1996 >>Ah, Kev. Zenon is in Poland. You can probably hire a researcher in hiscenter for a year for $20. ;)>Not be too excited, Kevin...>Actually, I would ask for much more ;-))) If all Zenon can afford is 20 zlotys, Then that's fine. The money is not themain issue here. I fully expect LIT to pull in it's fair share of traffic. >Kelly writes:>>Actually I like the idea of adds. Besides the money aspect, it gives us amore succesful and profesional image. No one sponcers or advertises onfools pages. So if we can get a couple sponcership icons from crediblegroups (aerospace or space related especially) it would give us morecredibility. Not critical, but a plus.>Yes, I think it is possibly true ->if the ads were from the credible groups. >-- ZenonCredible or not, as long as the check is good. :) Kevin==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 1996 20:52:50 -0700From: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Mime-Version:1.0To: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com, KellySt@aol.com, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@EFN.ORG,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, "pbakelaar"@exit109.comSubject: Bad E-mail ALERT!Stephen Landry <MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU> wrote: >no more messages sent here ok,,,tell allthe other list members Okay, will do. sorry about that.Hey guys, check your cc lists, and your address books. It looks like wevebeen mail bombing someone who is not interested. please remove MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU from this list. Kevin==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 1996 22:10:05 -0400X-Sender:pbakelaar@hiway1.exit109.comMime-Version: 1.0To: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39), zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)From: Philip Bakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: Re: My(temporary) LIT Site...Cc: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,kgstar@most.fw.hac.com, neill@foda.math.usu.edu, lessa@worldnet.att.net Here are several notes about my temp. LIT site: - The address is: http://www.exit109.com/~pbakelaar/lit (sorry guys... it was past my bedtime when I wrote the other letter) :P- To use any of the Space Programs, you pretty much have to have Netscape. Any browser that supports JavaScript will work,but other than Netscape, I do not know any. Soon will be a compilation ofall the Basic and C programs, as well as a few .EXEs and other stuff likethat.- I am still looking for Member Information (if any of you guys actually want the info there).- I am working on a Spanish translation, and when the permanent site is done, if everybody agrees a Spanish translation is a goodidea, I will do that. (BTW, if space is an issue, the Spanish mirror could be on my webserver)Also, I know someone who *might* do a German translation, if this isdesirable.- I am working on a Universe FAQ, which will hopefully one day evolve into a sort of online textbook. Anyway, check it out underLIT Projects.If anyone has any other ideas, like lists of certain links (I know one of youis still waiting for Maser links, they will be under the LIT Projects once Iget around to it) let me know and I can probably get right on it.BTW, I have a question. Kevin, you say that the fee will be one-time. But,InterNIC charges $50 a year for maintaining a domain name. Maybe Imisunderstood you. It will have to be a yearly fee, won't it? Just wondering.==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 1996 22:12:50 -0400X-Sender:pbakelaar@hiway1.exit109.comMime-Version: 1.0To: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39), zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa)From: Philip Bakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: Re: My(temporary) LIT Site...Cc: KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, lessa@worldnet.att.net I could use any information or links you have to information pertinent tothe Universe FAQ. I could use any suggestions about topics to add under it.And I could use links to pictures of the planets, solar system, galaxies,you know. ThanxBen==================================================================Date:Thu, 11 Jul 1996 21:47:19 -0700From: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Mime-Version:1.0To: Philip Bakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Cc: Kelly Starks x7066 MS10-39 <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, Zenon Kulpa <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl>, KellySt@aol.com,T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@InterWorld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, lessa@worldnet.att.netSubject: Re: My (temporary) LIT Site...Philip Bakelaar wrote:>- To use any of the Space Programs, you pretty much >have to have Netscape. Any browser that supports JavaScript will work,but other than Netscape, I do not know any. Soon will be a compilation ofall the Basic and C programs, as well as a few .EXEs and other stuff likethat.this is good, not everyone has Netscape (yet) >- I am working on a Spanish translation, and when the >permanent site is done, if everybody agrees a Spanish translation is agood idea, I will do that. (BTW, if space is an issue, the Spanish mirror >could be on my webserver)If you want to do the work of a spanish mirror, that's fine by me(frankly Ithink everyone in the world should just learn english and be done with it);) as for space, most of a site's space is in the graphics. I don't think aduplicate html document or ten will be a problem (some of the TOC willhave to change of course) hmm. maybe the foreign language sites should bemirrors at some other place. >BTW, I have a question. Kevin, you say that the fee will be one-time. But,InterNIC charges $50 a year for maintaining a domain name. Maybe Imisunderstood you. It will have to be a yearly fee, won't it? Depends on what you are talking about. If you are talking about LIT gettingit's own domain name, then yes the InterNIC fee would be yearly. If you aretalking about the URLy-Bird.com name, then no, I would not ask LIT to paymy domain name fees. Besides, I'll be paid up for two years anyway, so it'sa moot point for now. Kevin>Just wondering.==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:08:22 -0500To: Philip Bakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> From:kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re: My(temporary) LIT Site...Cc: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39),KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl,stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl,rddesign@wolfenet.com, David@interworld.com,lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com, sl0c8@cc.usu.edu,MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,neill@foda.math.usu.eduAt 6:47 PM 7/11/96, Philip Bakelaar wrote: >At 10:34 AM 7/11/96 -0500, Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 wrote: >>I like the format for the Space equations programs, but none worked forme. >Do you have a JavaScript capable browser? Namely, Netscape? That'spretty much the only browser that will work for those programs. :( Sorry, Idon't have access to CGI.. my web server does not allow it. Security issues. Thats probably the problem then. But most people probably don't haveJAava yet. I wounder if we should stick to cgi awhile. <DAVE! Webmarketing question! Who has what out there?>>>I also liked the Web links page. I alread have one worked out, but didn'thave all of Zenons links. So I'll murge our two when I get a chance. >That's good. Let me know when you do.>BenSure thing.Kelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:12:42 -0500To: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> From:kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re: New?LIT site.Cc: Zenon Kulpa <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl>, KellySt@aol.com, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@InterWorld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU,101765.2200@compuserve.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.com, lessa@worldnet.att.net At 8:20 PM 7/11/96, Kevin 'Tex' Houston wrote: >Zenon Kulpa wrote:>>>From kgstar@most.fw.hac.com Thu Jul 11 16:25:28 1996 >>>Ah, Kev. Zenon is in Poland. You can probably hire a researcher in hiscenter for a year for $20. ;)>>Not be too excited, Kevin...>>Actually, I would ask for much more ;-))) >If all Zenon can afford is 20 zlotys, Then that's fine. The money is not themain>issue here. I fully expect LIT to pull in it's fair share of traffic. I certainly seems to get a good amount of traffic compared to otherspasce interest boards. The Millenial socyity board is ranked amoung thetop %5 and its gotten 11,000 hits this year. We've been getting about athousand a month and out sites practically dead.>>Kelly writes:>>>Actually I like the idea of adds. Besides the money aspect, it gives us amore succesful and profesional image. No one sponcers or advertises onfools pages. So if we can get a couple sponcership icons from crediblegroups (aerospace or space related especially) it would give us morecredibility. Not critical, but a plus.>>Yes, I think it is possibly true ->>if the ads were from the credible groups. >>-- Zenon>Credible or not, as long as the check is good. :) KevinI don't know. If their flaky or weird we might want to think about it.Unless its a big check. ;)Kelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:14:46 -0500To: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> From:kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re: BadE-mail ALERT!Cc: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com, KellySt@aol.com, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@EFN.ORG,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, "pbakelaar"@exit109.comAt 8:52 PM 7/11/96, Kevin 'Tex' Houston wrote: >Stephen Landry <MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU> wrote: >>no more messages sent here ok,,,tell allthe other list members >Okay, will do. sorry about that.>Hey guys, check your cc lists, and your address books. It looks like wevebeen mail bombing someone who is not interested. >please remove MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU from this list. >KevinWounder how he got Mike Lineskis account? Hope I didn't add that to the web list?Kelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================X-Sender:kgstar@pophost.fw.hac.comMime-Version: 1.0Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:16:20 -0500To: Philip Bakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> From:kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) Subject: Re: My(temporary) LIT Site...Cc: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39), zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl (Zenon Kulpa), KellySt@aol.com,hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl,stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@interworld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, lessa@worldnet.att.netAt 10:10 PM 7/11/96, Philip Bakelaar wrote: >Here are several notes about my temp. LIT site: >- The address is: http://www.exit109.com/~pbakelaar/lit >(sorry guys... it was past my bedtime when I wrote the >other letter) :P>- To use any of the Space Programs, you pretty much >have to have Netscape. Any browser that supports JavaScript will work,but other than Netscape, I do not know any. Soon will be a compilation ofall the Basic and C programs, as well as a few .EXEs and other stuff likethat.>- I am still looking for Member Information (if any of >you guys actually want the info there). >- I am working on a Spanish translation, and when the >permanent site is done, if everybody agrees a Spanish translation is agood idea, I will do that. (BTW, if space is an issue, the Spanish mirror >could be on my webserver)>Also, I know someone who *might* do a German translation, if this isdesirable.>- I am working on a Universe FAQ, which will hopefully >one day evolve into a sort of online textbook. Anyway, check it out underLIT Projects.>If anyone has any other ideas, like lists of certain links (I know one ofyou is still waiting for Maser links, they will be under the LIT Projectsonce I get around to it) let me know and I can probably get right on it.>BTW, I have a question. Kevin, you say that the fee will be one-time. But,InterNIC charges $50 a year for maintaining a domain name. Maybe Imisunderstood you. It will have to be a yearly fee, won't it? >Just wondering.My you've been busy! Go for it.Kelly---------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.comSr. Systems EngineerMagnavox Electronic Systems Company(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) ----------------------------------------------------------------------==================================================================Date:Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:09:15 GMTX-Sender:Lessa@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Mime-Version: 1.0To: KellySt@aol.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com, stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl,hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@InterWorld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, pbakelaar@exit109.com From: Rex& Timothy <Lessa@worldnet.att.net> Hi Ben,I saw your spacepro.htm page, maybe you should add the formula's with thefill-out form, it makes it easier for people to see what is actuallycalculated. I wonder if translations in other languages are useful at all, if someonewho only speaks Spanish would comment, I (and probably most othermembers) would not be able to respond. Besides that, I would like to beable to read "my own" writings. Also I belief that it is long time forpeople to learn a common language. I don't really mind if that language isEnglish, Polish, French or whatever, it just happens to be that English isthe most common language.If you are creating parts in different languages, that multiple groups willbe created, that have few contacts with eachother. Tim==================================================================Date:Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:12:18 GMTX-Sender:Lessa@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Mime-Version: 1.0To: KellySt@aol.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com, stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl,hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@InterWorld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, pbakelaar@exit109.com From: Rex& Timothy <Lessa@worldnet.att.net> Hi All,Please do not sent letters to Lessa@worldnet.att.net If you by accidentreply to them, that's no big deal, but don't add it to your mailing list.I get all mailings that you sent to Rex (DotarSojat). Thanks,Timothy==================================================================Date:Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:20:07 GMTX-Sender:Lessa@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Mime-Version: 1.0To: KellySt@aol.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com, stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl,hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@InterWorld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, pbakelaar@exit109.com From: Rex& Timothy <Lessa@worldnet.att.net> I think we should use Java instead of SGI-scripts. They have the advantagethat people from all platforms (DOS, Mac, Unix) can program them, so wehave more independance.Besides that, Java(script) is clearly something that will overrule SGI inthe futere (with a few exceptions of course). I'm quite sure that in half ayear, almost everyone has a Java-compatible browser, those that haven'tare probably not interested enough (You can get it for free for almost allplatforms, and installation is almost without problems).Timothy===============================================================================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: "KellySt@aol.com"<KellySt@aol.com>, "kgstar@most.fw.hac.com"	 <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>,"stevev@efn.org" <stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl>,"hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu" <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> To:"rddesign@wolfenet.com" <rddesign@wolfenet.com>, "lparker@destin.gulfnet.com" <lparker@destin.gulfnet.com>,"DotarSojat@aol.com" <DotarSojat@aol.com>, "neill@foda.math.usu.edu"<neill@foda.math.usu.edu>, "101765.2200@compuserve.com"<101765.2200@compuserve.com>, "T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl> To: "pbakelaar@exit109.com"<pbakelaar@exit109.com>, 'Rex & Timothy'	 <Lessa@worldnet.att.net>Subject: RE: languagesDate: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 15:31:30 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0Plus multiple languages means each page will have to modified multipletimes (one for each language)==================================================================Date:Fri, 12 Jul 1996 12:35:50 -0700From: Steve VanDevender <stevev@efn.org> To: Rex & Timothy<Lessa@worldnet.att.net> Cc: KellySt@aol.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com,stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl,hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@InterWorld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, pbakelaar@exit109.com Rex Lessa Timothy writes:>I think we should use Java instead of SGI-scripts. They have theadvantage that people from all platforms (DOS, Mac, Unix) can programthem, so we have more independance.>Besides that, Java(script) is clearly something that will overrule SGI inthe futere (with a few exceptions of course). I'm quite sure that in half ayear, almost everyone has a Java-compatible browser, those that haven'tare probably not interested enough (You can get it for free for almost allplatforms, and installation is almost without problems).>TimothyDo you mean CGI (Common Gateway Interface) instead of SGI (SiliconGraphics, Incorporated)?Having worked with CGI a fair amount and knowing more or less what Javais, I can't agree at all with your proposition. While you can do a lot of neatthings with Java applets, they are by no means a complete replacement forCGI -- most importantly, because Java applets run on your computerrather than on the web server, there are things that would be easy to dowith CGI that would be almost impossible to do with Java. Certainly, theconverse is also true; you can do things in Java that are almost impossibleto do with CGI.Probably the most useful thing you can do with CGI is search databases ona server or do other computation- or data-intensive tasks that would beimpractical on a typical personal computer. I can't see any efficient wayto do that using Java applets. You won't see Alta Vista(http://www.altavista.digital.com/) implemented as a Java applet anytime soon.I also happen to believe that the Web is not just for people with Netscapeor other graphical browsers. I can't tell you how disgusted I am dealingwith "Netscape-enhanced" pages or pages that work only in graphicalbrowsers.==============================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: Rex & Timothy<Lessa@worldnet.att.net>, 'Steve VanDevender'	 <stevev@efn.org>Cc: "KellySt@aol.com" <KellySt@aol.com>, "kgstar@most.fw.hac.com"	 <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu"	 <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl"	 <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl>,"hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu"	 <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>,"rddesign@wolfenet.com"	 <rddesign@wolfenet.com>Cc: "lparker@destin.gulfnet.com" <lparker@destin.gulfnet.com>, "DotarSojat@aol.com" <DotarSojat@aol.com>, "neill@foda.math.usu.edu"<neill@foda.math.usu.edu>, "101765.2200@compuserve.com"<101765.2200@compuserve.com>, "T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "pbakelaar@exit109.com"<pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: RE:Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 15:44:31 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0>Having worked with CGI a fair amount and knowing more or less whatJava is, I can't agree at all with your proposition. While you can do a lot ofneat things with Java applets, they are by no means a completereplacement for CGI -- most importantly, because Java applets run on yourcomputer rather than on the web server, there are things that would beeasy to do with CGI that would be almost impossible to do with Java.Certainly, the converse is also true; you can do things in Java that arealmost impossible to do with CGI.>Probably the most useful thing you can do with CGI is search databaseson a server or do other computation- or data-intensive tasks that wouldbe impractical on a typical personal computer. I can't see any efficientway to do that using Java applets. You won't see Alta Vista(http://www.altavista.digital.com/) implemented as a Java applet anytime soon.Sun is developing a new type of java program... in addition to applicationsand applets, we will soon have servlets. Servlets allow you to use java toextend the functionality the same way a CGI does... the difference beingthat CGI scripts are new processes, while java servlets (like ISAPI orNSAPI dll's) are merely new threads - hence providing a substantialsavings in memory and an AMAZING savings in speed. Take it from someonein the business... computationally intensive server-side programs willsoon all be written as a library to a server using a special API, whether asC/C++ code (the majority right now) or as a java servlet (coming soon to atheater near you). Our company switched (first to NSAPI, then to ISAPI)from CGI over a year ago, and the savings in every facet of performancehas been truly unbelievable. Our company wouldn't exist today if we werestill using CGI... we just wouldn't be competitive. I __DO__ however, agree with Steve that not everyone will have a Java orJavascript capable browser, and it will be much smarter to write anycomputations as server-side (whether using APIs or CGI) as it will becompatible with EVERYONE, even Lynx.==================================================================Date:Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:07:30 -0400X-Sender:pbakelaar@hiway1.exit109.comMime-Version: 1.0To: "Kevin 'Tex' Houston" <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> From: PhilipBakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: Re: My (temporary) LIT Site...Cc: Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, Zenon Kulpa <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl>, KellySt@aol.com,T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org,jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@InterWorld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, lessa@worldnet.att.netAt 09:47 PM 7/11/96 -0700, Kevin 'Tex' Houston wrote: >>BTW, I have a question. Kevin, you say that the fee will be one-time. But,InterNIC charges $50 a year for maintaining a domain name. Maybe Imisunderstood you. It will have to be a yearly fee, won't it? >Depends on what you are talking about. If you are talking about LIT getting it's own>domain name, then yes the InterNIC fee would be yearly. If you are talking about the>URLy-Bird.com name, then no, I would not ask LIT to pay my domain name fees. Besides,>I'll be paid up for two years anyway, so it's a moot point for now. >Kevinoh ok... I mustv'e missed the talk about URLy-Bird.com.. btw, what the heckis that?:)Ben============================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: "KellySt@aol.com"<KellySt@aol.com>, "kgstar@most.fw.hac.com"	 <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>,"stevev@efn.org" <stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl>,"hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu" <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> To: 'PhilipBakelaar' <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: RE: Foreign language mirrorsDate: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:14:44 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0>As for multiple documents, David, I was thinking that each Foreginlanguage mirror would be hosted on a different web site. And any imagelinks could be the same no matter what language, you see what Im saying?The images and English versions will be on the LIT main server, and ifthere are foreign mirrors, the text will be on different servers, but thepictures won't be a space problem.Obviously. My problem is that when I make a change to the English page, ifwe want the other language pages to be up-to-date, someone will have tomake changes to them for every little change I make. It could getcumbersome after a while.==================================================================Date:Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:12:09 -0400X-Sender:pbakelaar@hiway1.exit109.comMime-Version: 1.0To: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com>, "KellySt@aol.com"<KellySt@aol.com>, "kgstar@most.fw.hac.com" <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, "stevev@efn.org"<stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl>,"hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu" <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> From:Philip Bakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: Re: Foreign languagemirrorsOK guys... here's the deal. I'm just doing this umm.. Spanish mirror mostlyfor practice (I do enjoy learning) and so its no big deal if you guys dontwant foreign language mirrors. The reason I suggested it is that ya know,all the big pages like Netscape and companies have all translations. I justthought it would be a good idea.As for multiple documents, David, I was thinking that each Foreginlanguage mirror would be hosted on a different web site. And any imagelinks could be the same no matter what language, you see what Im saying?The images and English versions will be on the LIT main server, and ifthere are foreign mirrors, the text will be on different servers, but thepictures won't be a space problem.I guess some of you don't see any reason to have any foreign languagemirrors? I, personally, could care less.. as I said, I'm doing the Spanishtranslation for practice. But, say I got people interested in translating andhosting the HTML in their language? Wouldn't that be an added benefit?Maybe it would like only reach one person, but hey, I think one person isplenty, considering it isn't costing the members any work or money?Just my thoughts... :)==================================================================Date:Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:17:20 -0400X-Sender:pbakelaar@hiway1.exit109.comMime-Version: 1.0To: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) From: PhilipBakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: Re: Space programs...Cc: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39),KellySt@aol.com, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl,stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl,rddesign@wolfenet.com, David@interworld.com,lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com, sl0c8@cc.usu.edu,MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU, 101765.2200@compuserve.com,neill@foda.math.usu.eduOK.. right now the programs are in JavaSCRIPT, not Java. I don't plan onmaking them applets, because there is really no reason to. I believe thatJava is the future, but I also know what its like to have a browser likeLynx trying to view any web page (all of em are netscape enhanced now!)so...I don't care if we have CGI scripts, but for one thing, I can't program them,unless someone has some web space where I can test out CGI stuff. Myweb server does not allow CGI scripts (meaning, I can't access them.. errorwhen I try) so... anyway, I would love to do the CGI scripts, and yea I knowwe already have 'em, but if we make new programs, I'd be willing to dothem, as long as I have somewhere to test out the CGI scripts so I canlearn. Actually, Id like to learn CGI anyway. Anybody?(BTW, you know I'm just using you guys for web space, right? Oh, did I forget to tell you?!?) ;PHehe..==================================================================Date:Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:19:59 -0400X-Sender:pbakelaar@hiway1.exit109.comMime-Version: 1.0To: Rex & Timothy <Lessa@worldnet.att.net>, KellySt@aol.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com, stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu,zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu,rddesign@wolfenet.com, David@InterWorld.com,lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com, neill@foda.math.usu.edu,101765.2200@compuserve.com, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nlFrom: Philip Bakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: Re:At 07:09 PM 7/12/96 GMT, Rex & Timothy wrote: >Hi Ben,>I saw your spacepro.htm page, maybe you should add the formula's withthe fill-out form, it makes it easier for people to see what is actually calculated.Sure. I was actually planning on doing that tonite or tomorrow anyway! >I wonder if translations in other languages are useful at all, if someonewho only speaks Spanish would comment, I (and probably most othermembers) would not be able to respond. Besides that, I would like to beable to read "my own" writings. Also I belief that it is long time forpeople to learn a common language. I don't really mind if that language isEnglish, Polish, French or whatever, it just happens to be that English isthe most common language.Refer to my foreign languages letter.>If you are creating parts in different languages, that multiple groups willbe created, that have few contacts with eachother. Possibly...But I really don't think that would happen. It would just allow foreignspeaking people to actually read our site, and maybe we would attractsome real genius from another country! Haven't you guys ever read.. um.. ohman, I can't remember the name! It might be "Eon", but I don't think that'sthe book I'm talking about anyway. oh well Ben==================================================================Date:Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:23:01 -0400X-Sender:pbakelaar@hiway1.exit109.comMime-Version: 1.0To: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) From: PhilipBakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: Re: My (temporary) LIT Site...At 08:55 AM 7/12/96 -0500, Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 wrote: >Hi Ben,>Heres the web page I was working on before. It has technical links toNASA sites with photos and the old links to the members stuff.<http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/Library/photo.html> has lots ofphotos you might like.>I also taged another hotlist with othe stuff mixed in (I need to sort allthis out!).>Hope it helps.>KellyThanx Kelly! I'll certainly use them.==================================================================Date:Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:22:19 -0400X-Sender:pbakelaar@hiway1.exit109.comMime-Version: 1.0To: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com>, "KellySt@aol.com"<KellySt@aol.com>, "kgstar@most.fw.hac.com" <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, "stevev@efn.org"<stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl>,"hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu" <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> From:Philip Bakelaar <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: RE: Foreign languagemirrorsAt 06:14 PM 7/12/96 -0400, David Levine wrote: >Obviously. My problem is that when I make a change to the English page, ifwe want the other language pages to be up-to-date, someone will have tomake changes to them for every little change I make. It could getcumbersome after a while.Jeez, David! That was a quick reply. I think thats a record! 2 minutes! ;)Well, in that area, you are correct. Well, I say any foreign language mirroris better than none, don't you think? Just a thought..Ben\==========================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: Rex & Timothy<Lessa@worldnet.att.net>, "KellySt@aol.com"	 <KellySt@aol.com>,"kgstar@most.fw.hac.com"	 <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>,"stevev@efn.org" <stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl> To:"hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu" <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>, "rddesign@wolfenet.com" <rddesign@wolfenet.com>,"lparker@destin.gulfnet.com" <lparker@destin.gulfnet.com>,"DotarSojat@aol.com" <DotarSojat@aol.com>, "neill@foda.math.usu.edu"<neill@foda.math.usu.edu>, "101765.2200@compuserve.com"<101765.2200@compuserve.com> To:"T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl" 	<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, 'Philip Bakelaar'	 <pbakelaar@exit109.com>Subject: RE:Date:Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:01:25 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0>But I really don't think that would happen. It would just allow foreignspeaking people to actually read our site, and maybe we would attractsome real genius from another country!Like Zenon? :-)===========================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: "KellySt@aol.com"<KellySt@aol.com>, "kgstar@most.fw.hac.com"	 <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>,"stevev@efn.org" <stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl>,"hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu" <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> To: 'PhilipBakelaar' <pbakelaar@exit109.com> Subject: RE: Foreign language mirrorsDate: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:02:12 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0>Well, in that area, you are correct. Well, I say any foreign language mirroris better than none, don't you think? Unless people start complaining "Why is the French page so out of date?"...etc. You'd be surprised what people complain about on your web pageswhen they're very public. Sometimes it's best not to even bother.=============================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: "kgstar@most.fw.hac.com"<kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, 'Philip Bakelaar'	 <pbakelaar@exit109.com>Cc: "kgstar@most.fw.hac.com" <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, "KellySt@aol.com"	 <KellySt@aol.com>,"hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu"	 <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>,"T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl"<T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl>, "stevev@efn.org"<stevev@efn.org>,"jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu> Cc:"zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl>, "rddesign@wolfenet.com"	 <rddesign@wolfenet.com>,"lparker@destin.gulfnet.com"	 <lparker@destin.gulfnet.com>,"DotarSojat@aol.com"	 <DotarSojat@aol.com>,"sl0c8@cc.usu.edu" <sl0c8@cc.usu.edu>,"MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU"<MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU> Cc:"101765.2200@compuserve.com" <101765.2200@compuserve.com>, "neill@foda.math.usu.edu" <neill@foda.math.usu.edu> Subject: RE: Spaceprograms...Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:01:47 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0On most systems a CGI script is a script like any other. It gets its inputfrom STDIN and its output from STDOUT. If you can write a C or perlprogram, you've written a CGI application. Sure, the format the data comesin on STDIN can be a little odd, but there's plenty of documentation on it.If I had an hour of free time, I'd go through the old CGI stuff I had for thesite and fix them.... >---------->From: 	Philip Bakelaar[SMTP:pbakelaar@exit109.com] Sent:	Friday, July 12, 1996 6:17 PM>To: 	kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>Cc: 	David Levine; kgstar@most.fw.hac.com; KellySt@aol.com;hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu; T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl;stevev@efn.org; jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu; zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl;rddesign@wolfenet.com; lparker@destin.gulfnet.com; DotarSojat@aol.com;sl0c8@cc.usu.edu; MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU;101765.2200@compuserve.com; neill@foda.math.usu.edu Subject: 	Re:Space programs...>OK.. right now the programs are in JavaSCRIPT, not Java. I don't plan onmaking them applets, because there is really no reason to. I believe thatJava is the future, but I also know what its like to have a browser likeLynx trying to view any web page (all of em are netscape enhanced now!)so...>I don't care if we have CGI scripts, but for one thing, I can't programthem, unless someone has some web space where I can test out CGI stuff.My web server does not allow CGI scripts (meaning, I can't access them..error when I try) so... anyway, I would love to do the CGI scripts, and yea Iknow we already have 'em, but if we make new programs, I'd be willing todo them, as long as I have somewhere to test out the CGI scripts so I canlearn. Actually, Id like to learn CGI anyway. Anybody?>(BTW, you know I'm just using you guys for web >space, right? Oh, did I forget to tell you?!?) >;P>Hehe..==================================================================Date:Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:53:46 -0700 (PDT)X-Sender:rddesign@wolfenet.comMime-Version: 1.0To: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39) From:rddesign@wolfenet.com (Ric & Denisse Hedman) Subject: Re: My(temporary) LIT Site...Cc: KellySt@aol.com, stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu,David@InterWorld.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com I'm running Netscape 2.0....it supports Java....... Ric>At 6:47 PM 7/11/96, Philip Bakelaar wrote: >>At 10:34 AM 7/11/96 -0500, Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 wrote: >>>I like the format for the Space equations programs, but none worked forme. >>Do you have a JavaScript capable browser? Namely, Netscape? That'spretty much the only browser that will work for those programs. :( Sorry, Idon't have access to CGI.. my web server does not allow it. Security issues. >Thats probably the problem then. But most people probably don't haveJAava yet. I wounder if we should stick to cgi awhile. <DAVE! Webmarketing question! Who has what out there?>>>>I also liked the Web links page. I alread have one worked out, but didn'thave all of Zenons links. So I'll murge our two when I get a chance. >>That's good. Let me know when you do.>>Ben>Sure thing.>Kelly>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Kelly Starks	Internet: kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>Sr. Systems Engineer>Magnavox Electronic Systems Company>(Magnavox URL: http://www.fw.hac.com/external.html) >---------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit RD Designs Home Pageat:..http://www.wolfenet.com/~rddesign/Rddesign.htm==================================================================Date:Sat, 13 Jul 1996 03:22:56 -0700From: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Mime-Version:1.0To: Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com> Cc:KellySt@aol.com, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl, stevev@efn.org, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com,David@InterWorld.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,sl0c8@cc.usu.edu, 101765.2200@COMPUSERVE.COM,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, pbakelaar@exit109.comSubject: Re: Bad E-mail ALERT!Kelly Starks x7066 MS 10-39 wrote:>At 8:52 PM 7/11/96, Kevin 'Tex' Houston wrote: >>Stephen Landry <MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU> wrote: >>>no more messages sent here ok,,,tell allthe other list members >>Okay, will do. sorry about that.>>Hey guys, check your cc lists, and your address books. It looks like wevebeen mail bombing someone who is not interested. >>please remove MLEN3097@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU from this list. >>Kevin>Wounder how he got Mike Lineskis account? Think we oughta check with the sysop to verify that the account wasn'thacked? Kevin==================================================================Date:Sat, 13 Jul 1996 03:35:42 -0700From: Kevin 'Tex' Houston <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Mime-Version:1.0To: Steve VanDevender <stevev@efn.org>Cc: Rex & Timothy <Lessa@worldnet.att.net>, KellySt@aol.com, kgstar@most.fw.hac.com, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu,zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl, rddesign@wolfenet.com, David@interworld.com,lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com, neill@foda.math.usu.edu,101765.2200@CompuServe.COM, T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl,pbakelaar@exit109.com Subject: Re:Steve VanDevender wrote:>Rex Lessa Timothy writes:>>I think we should use Java instead of SGI-scripts. They have theadvantage that people from all platforms (DOS, Mac, Unix) can programthem, so we have more independance.>>Besides that, Java(script) is clearly something that will overrule SGI inthe futere (with a few exceptions of course). I'm quite sure that in half ayear, almost everyone has a Java-compatible browser, those that haven'tare probably not interested enough (You can get it for free for almost allplatforms, and installation is almost without problems).>>Timothy>Do you mean CGI (Common Gateway Interface) instead of SGI (SiliconGraphics, Incorporated)?>Having worked with CGI a fair amount and knowing more or less whatJava is, I can't agree at all with your proposition. While you can do a lot ofneat things with Java applets, they are by no means a completereplacement for CGI -- most importantly, because Java applets run on yourcomputer rather than on the web server, there are things that would beeasy to do with CGI that would be almost impossible to do with Java.Certainly, the converse is also true; you can do things in Java that arealmost impossible to do with CGI.I think I agree with Steve here. a lot of the people coming to our site willbe university students sitting in a computer lab (avoiding their homework)using Lynx or some other text browser. For the near-term, we should tryto make sure that our pages work the widest possible audience. While Javaworks great in Netscape and other browsers, CGI works fine also. >I also happen to believe that the Web is not just for people with Netscapeor other graphical browsers. I can't tell you how disgusted I am dealingwith "Netscape-enhanced" pages or pages that work only in graphicalbrowsers.The web is for all people, certainly, but if certain sites don't want to takethe trouble to code the alt="" tags, then text-onlies just have to live withit. Of course, the sites that behave that way get fewer hits. and alienatemany potential friends.Kevin.==================================================================Date:Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:11:37 -0400From: KellySt@aol.comTo: David@interworld.com (davidlevine), KellySt@aol.com(kellyst@aol.com), kgstar@most.fw.hac.com (kgstar@most.fw.hac.com), stevev@efn.org(stevev@efn.org),jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu (jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu),zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl (zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl),hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu (hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu) Subject: Re:RE: Foreign language mirrors >Obviously. My problem is that when I make a change to the English page, ifwe want the other language pages to be up-to-date, someone will have tomake changes to them for every little change I make. It could getcumbersome after a while.We have a hard enough time geting people to write up and maintain stuff inthe english versions! ;)Kelly==================================================================Date:Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:11:12 -0400From: KellySt@aol.comTo: David@interworld.com, Lessa@worldnet.att.net, stevev@efn.org Cc:kgstar@most.fw.hac.com, jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu, zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl, hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu,rddesign@wolfenet.com, lparker@destin.gulfnet.com, DotarSojat@aol.com,neill@foda.math.usu.edu, 101765.2200@compuserve.com Subject: Re: RE:>Having worked with CGI a fair amount and knowing more or less whatJava is, I can't agree at all with your proposition. While you can do a lot ofneat things with Java applets, they are by no means a completereplacement for CGI -- most importantly, because Java applets run on yourcomputer rather than on the web server, there are things that would beeasy to do with CGI that would be almost impossible to do with Java.Certainly, the converse is also true; you can do things in Java that arealmost impossible to do with CGI.>Probably the most useful thing you can do with CGI is search databaseson a server or do other computation- or data-intensive tasks that wouldbe impractical on a typical personal computer. I can't see any efficientway to do that using Java applets. You won't see Alta Vista(http://www.altavista.digital.com/) implemented as a Java applet anytime soon.I strongly agree. I was reluctant to even use maps as the table ofcontents, since I know a lot of people (probably most) don't have thatcapability. I also use Netscape 1.1 and Mosaic as test browsers. Not themost curent aplet enhanced apps. Certainly I would strongly argue againstconverting things like our on-line computer center apps to applets. KellyP.S.By the way. If someone wants to try to write up Tims relatavisticcalculations as CGI aps that would be usefull.===========================================================From: David Levine <David@InterWorld.com> To: "Lessa@worldnet.att.net"<Lessa@worldnet.att.net>, "stevev@efn.org"	 <stevev@efn.org>,"'KellySt@aol.com'" <KellySt@aol.com>Cc: "kgstar@most.fw.hac.com" <kgstar@most.fw.hac.com>, "jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu" <jim@bogie2.bio.purdue.edu>,"zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl" <zkulpa@zmit1.ippt.gov.pl>,"hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu" <hous0042@maroon.tc.umn.edu>,"rddesign@wolfenet.com" <rddesign@wolfenet.com>,"lparker@destin.gulfnet.com" <lparker@destin.gulfnet.com> Cc:"DotarSojat@aol.com" <DotarSojat@aol.com>, "neill@foda.math.usu.edu"	 <neill@foda.math.usu.edu>,"101765.2200@compuserve.com"	 <101765.2200@compuserve.com>Subject: RE: RE: Java, etcDate: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 13:35:02 -0400Mime-Version: 1.0Of course, just because we make all the basics accessable to everyonewith CGI (or directly linked libraries) doesn't mean we CAN'T do any neatstuff in Java for those that can view it... it just means we have torememberthat that ISN'T the baseline system. Kelly asked earlier who has what outthere.... You'll be surprised to learn (maybe) that out of all the Windowsusers out there, a solid majority still use Windows 3.1, not Windows 95.And may continue to do so for a long time. Certainly at schools, wheremoney can be a problem, it will be a while until these people upgrade... andthese are the kind of people we seriously want to reach. Windows 3.1 is a16-bit operating system, and even with Win32s can't run anything likeJava, which needs a true multithreading OS. Of course, IBM is coming upwith some kind of "fix" to simulate multithreading on Microsoft's old 3.1,but it may be a while.However, -most- web browsers currently in use are Netscape 1.x or 2.x.The highest percentage is 2.x, but a significant number of users are stillon 1.x, which cannot do java, frames, etc. Also, a large number of users -are- using other browsers, and we don't want to alienate them. But, again, it doesn't prevent us from doing cool stuff for those that canview it.... we just need to make sure that everyone gets a basic access.