Meadville Space Center

Project Apollo - NASSP => Planning => Topic started by: lassombra on December 18, 2007, 06:14:14 PM



Title: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: lassombra on December 18, 2007, 06:14:14 PM
    This is, at the moment at least, just a kind of review, where are we with regards to being ready for an Apollo 7 release.  I'm not talking about everything else we want to do, or a beta release.  I'm talking, pure and simple, apollo 7.  AGC/Quickstart/Simple modes, small scenario set, complete release in one zip for people to download the contents of Project Apollo and fly a Saturn 1B into LEO.

    I know there are some things people want to implement, and think NEED to be implemented.

    So heres the idea:  We start a list of things that NEED to be implemented and then things we WANT implemented.

NEED:
  • finish the panels in the CM.
  • EOCA completed.
  • finish refining the launch/early post insertion data for the Saturn rocket
  • 4 or 5 complete missions under our belts from people of different skill levels.
  • plan of attack for how to best test parts of the mission.
  • decide on what our scenarios will entail.  (one for each step of the mission, i.e. AMSO?  or fewer than that?)
  • seperate or disable the parts of NASSP which won't be ready for Apollo 7 release
  • remove the failure code and rewrite it.
  • MFD-integrated checklist with flashing switch finders.
  • comprehensive checklist that allows operation of Apollo 7 from launch to splashdown according to historic procedures and situations.

WANT:
  • more complete documentation on the various systems.
  • the new exhast modifications
  • the other docking method
  • White painted SM's (for AS-201/202, Apollo 6, Ironman One)
  • Ability to chose whether a spacecraft has a probe or drogue docking unit. Necessary for the NASA Earth Orbit Rendezvous contingency scenario.
  • Different CSM cockpit mesh for the unmanned flights, based on the one used for Apollo 4/6 (see attached picture). (See also:Apollo Experience Report, Guidance & Control: Mission Control Programmer for Unmanned Missions, AS-202, Apollo 4, Apollo 6 (http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19750018952_1975018952.pdf)(15mb))

The point here I think is to differentiate between the NEEDS and the WANTS so that we know when we can go ahead and release.  I'm not saying give up on the WANTS until the NEEDS are done, but once the NEEDS are done we probably can release with whatever WANTS are done at that point.[/list]


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: movieman on December 18, 2007, 11:51:38 PM
Sounds good. I think we do need someone to make a list of what we have to do and then people can work through the list to clear it.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on December 19, 2007, 01:38:28 AM
Ok, me next... :D

I think we NEED the EMS working (which I'm getting close, but this is actually part of your "finish the panels in the CM").
We NEED at least 4 or 5 complete missions under our belts from people of different skill levels. (I apply for the new-flyer level... :wink:)
We NEED a plan of attack for how to best test parts of the mission.
We NEED to decide on what our scenarios will entail.  (one for each step of the mission, i.e. AMSO?  or fewer than that?)
We NEED to seperate or disable the parts of NASSP which won't be ready for Apollo 7 release (LEM, lunar stuff, MCC) and keep those in the BETA only.  This is so we don't get people complaining about how something doesn't work right or crashing.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think we NEED to remove the failure code and rewrite it if we WANT this in this release.

I WANT the MFD-integrated checklist with flashing switch finders.  (This is number one on my want list and I'm very tempted to suggest NEED, but I'll refrain for now)
I WANT the new exhast modifications (but it likely won't happen)
I WANT the other docking method (next on my agenda  :ThumbsUp432:)

On the subject of the MFD-checklist, I think we need a good thread of discussion involving how to format the checklists (text file, Excel spreadsheet, etc) and cement that in stone before work begins on it.  This is going to be vital to the less experienced.  While I know my way around the capsule inside and out, I don't know my way around the systems and AGC, which is where this would be great.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: lassombra on December 19, 2007, 03:46:50 AM
regarding the checklist, I've started this thread: http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=1459.0 (http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=1459.0) containing my ideas and asking for discussion.  I've put Swatch's items into the list at the top.  Maybe we can sticky this thread and use it as a checklist to release?  Oh, and btw, thank  jc121081 for giving me this idea.

P.S. Swatch, I upgraded your checklist to a need as we are in a condition, regarding the types of users we are targeting where we probably do need it.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on December 19, 2007, 08:20:11 AM
Great thread, I made it sticky.  :ThumbsUp432:

Basically I second everything said so far, I'm going to elaborate a little bit more later, for now just a small comment about:

NEED:
  • finish the panels in the CM.

This is what I'm working on mainly. I resumed the work on the RCS, which is the biggest missing system for my part, after that's I'm going to enhance the EPS and ECS a little bit to support a couple of the switches/displays/cb's on the new panels. I don't think we really need every switch and display working, so we need to detail that point a little bit more later, but for now I have enough work with the forementioned systems. :)

...and...

WANT:
  • more complete documentation on the various systems.
  • comprehensive checklist that allows operation of Apollo 7 from launch to splashdown according to historic procedures and situations.

I tend to see these points as a NEED, because without proper documentation almost everyone will fail to use the CSM properly. At least for me a big part of the "Apollo fascination" is based on that the CSM can be used like the real one (and not only like a typical Orbiter spacecraft), but in order to "impart" that, documentation and checklists are necessary, otherwise I fear it will lead to a lot of frustration of the users (I hope I explained that not too weird...).

By the way: Does anyone has docu/links about the "VAB able to assemble a Saturn 1B" part? I think it was erected on the pad, I'm not even sure it was in the VAB before, but basically I just don't know...

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on December 19, 2007, 11:00:17 AM

By the way: Does anyone has docu/links about the "VAB able to assemble a Saturn 1B" part? I think it was erected on the pad, I'm not even sure it was in the VAB before, but basically I just don't know...


Yea, I was going to say something about this.... it was erected on the pad using the MSS.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Christophe on December 19, 2007, 11:54:23 AM
Hi everybody!
Seems we run into the final approach for the first NASSP 7 release . That sounds good  :)

Thanks Lassombra for placing EOCA into the "need" list, and thus to put me under pressure  :D
In a more general way I would say that the "need list" requires something to compute the whole Apollo 7 maneuvers.
The tests jc121081 and I made shows that EOCA is currently able to perform the computation for basic maneuvers with good accuracy.
By "basic maneuvers" I mean the SPS burn nbr 3, 4, 5, and 6 of the Apollo 7 flight plan.

That left:
- The RCS phasing burn and the 2 first SPS burns that are part of the coelliptic RDV phasing. I'm currently working on that and hope to get results before the year is out.
- the RDV itself, TPI and midcourse correction: irnenginer told that it performed that burns succesfully like they have to be done: with vAGC RDV programs.
While in standard mode, the user can simply use IMFD in intercept mode.
- The 7th SPS burn. it's a ground phasing burn to prepare for reentry one day later;
that's something I plan to do in EOCA after the RDV phasing stuff is complete, because it's more difficult to perform ground track adjustment simply because the orbit and the earth don't rotate into the same plane.
- The 8th burn is the deorbit burn; 15 minutes before reentry.
I plan too to include deorbit burns into EOCA but I don't know when.
Last year I made some test using IMFD base Appraoch program for deorbit burn. That worked well exept for the computation of the entry interface refsmmat which is a bit tricky to compute. However it's feasable, and I think it could be the nominal way for the Apollo7 release.

would like to mention that an excel spredsheet is not very practical to use in orbiter. To be honnest I started that thinking that it could be one day a part of the virtual MCC; don't know the current status of virtual MCC today.

however, since the final release will include several scenarios, one for each flight steps, I suggest that the scenario could include in its own description chapter, the next maneuver elements precomputed with the help of EOCA.

For finishing, my biggest goal is to write a full doc on how to use EOCA, with some explanations on basic space mechanics.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: lassombra on December 19, 2007, 05:00:07 PM
Ok, I moved the checklist to need.

I think the actual systems documentation is more of a want when we're talking about having a standard checklist anyways.  While the astronauts I'm sure knew every bulb on their spacecraft just as I know every switch and bulb on the piper warrior I fly, that doesn't mean that they were thinking in terms of systems.  They did what the guys on the ground told them to.  Strictly speaking, the guys on the ground had more time to think about it since there were more of them.  Having a checklist that provides an accurate flight profile is I think more important then than being able to understand every single system.

That said, I think that it is still important, and if we get some people who have the time and understanding to do so, it'd be great if they could document it.

As to the VAB idea, i've scrapped it.  I didn't realize when I said it the obvious problem.  The pad that the Saturn 1B is launched from doesn't move so obviously there is something wrong with the idea of building it in the VAB


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: lassombra on December 20, 2007, 04:21:51 PM
Christophe, I think these are valid points, but should be discussed in the Checklist MFD thread.  There we have a checklist idea set, and we have been looking at the idea of how to designate time related checklists.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Christophe on December 20, 2007, 04:33:13 PM
Christophe, I think these are valid points, but should be discussed in the Checklist MFD thread.  There we have a checklist idea set, and we have been looking at the idea of how to designate time related checklists.

ooops! so sorry...


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Graham2001 on January 12, 2008, 07:08:52 AM
WANT

  • White Painted SMs, these appeared on four flights, AS-201/202, Apollo 6 & 'Ironman One'.
  • Boilerplate CSMs, these will be needed for the Little Joe II & the Early Saturn (Saturn I) test flights.

EditAdded a picture showing all flights, clockwise from the left, AS-201, AS-202, Apollo 6, 'Ironman One'. Practice of painting SMs white seems to originate with the Saturn I (Block I & II) missions.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: lassombra on January 12, 2008, 08:25:56 AM
Added to the list.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Graham2001 on January 14, 2008, 04:22:37 AM
Want:

  • Ability to chose whether a spacecraft has a probe or drogue docking unit. Necessary for the NASA Earth Orbit Rendezvous contingency scenario.
  • Different CSM cockpit mesh for the unmanned flights, based on the one used for Apollo 4/6 (see attached picture). (See also:Apollo Experience Report, Guidance & Control: Mission Control Programmer for Unmanned Missions, AS-202, Apollo 4, Apollo 6 (http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19750018952_1975018952.pdf)(15mb))


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: lassombra on January 14, 2008, 05:45:56 AM
added to the list.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: movieman on January 14, 2008, 11:26:29 AM
I think one important issue is to be logging bugs on the sourceforge page so they can be tracked and fixed.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: lassombra on January 14, 2008, 11:36:44 AM
Yeah, like the heap errors I keep getting? :P  I think I might have tracked them down, and they are in my code...

Even so, we really should be looking at why it is that orbiter is spitting out so many objects left over at close.  At last count we have 520 heap nodes still allocated when we close.  Not a problem since the heap gets destroyed there, but that number increases dramatically with rerun simulations...

I'll put this on the sourceforge bug tracker all the same.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: movieman on January 14, 2008, 12:57:40 PM
Right now there are a lot of bugs in unusual situations which we ought to fix but which there's no record of -- for example, if you separate the SM while the CSM is docked with a LEM, then the CM ends up some distance away from the LEM, with no docking probe. If they're added to the sourceforge bug list then that's an easy way to find which bugs need fixing and to ensure they're not forgotten about.

A lot of those bugs are probably easy to fix (in that case I suspect the docking port is in the wrong place, or non-existent)... but unless we know about them no-one is likely to fix them.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on April 23, 2008, 01:53:33 AM
How do we stand?

I know the panels are done.

What systems are currently under development?

Will the automated checklists be ready for a summer freeze on ProjectApollo 7 development and transition to testing?

Are there any showstopping flaws?




The following is up for debate, but needs to be finalized soon.

ProjectApollo 7 Key Point Scenarios:

Backup Crew Pre-Launch (T-3:00:00)?
Prime Crew Pre-Launch (T-1:30:00)?
Launch (T-20 seconds)

First Period Of Activities
SIVB Sep, Transposition and Station Keeping @ 2:55:00 (T+2:50:00)
Phasing Maneuver @ 3:20:00 (T+3:10:00)

Second Period Of Activities
1st SPS Burn @ 26:24:00 (T+26:15:00)
2nd SPS Burn @ 28:00:00 (T+27:50:00)
Terminal Phase Initiation @ ~29:22:00  (T+29:00:00)
Breaking Approach and SIVB Rendezvous @ ~29:36:00  (T+29:25:00)

Third Period Of Activities
3rd SPS Burn @ 3 days, 19:43:00  - Orbital Conditioning
4th SPS BUrn @ 5 days, 00:53:00  - minimum impulse burn...
5th SPS Burn @ 6 days, 21:08:00  - switch to manual TVC
6th SPS Burn @ 8 days, 19:42:00  - minimum impulse burn...
7th SPS Burn @ 9 days, 21:24:00  - Orbital "tune-up"

Deorbit and Landing
8th SPS Burn @ 10days, 21:08:00  - De-orbit
CSM Sep - (Deorbit+00:00:90)
Entry Interface - (Deorbit + 00:14:90)
Chutes Out
Splashdown

Other Possible Scenarios
Lunar Module Rendezvous Radar testing over White Sands
Backup Alignment of Stabilization and Control System
Optics Alignment
Passive Thermal Control Tests
Sextant Landmark Tracking


Those are my suggestions...  and as soon as we're ready let's split a release candidate from the BETA and remove unnecessary items from that branch so that we can bugfix, document, and prepare those scenarios.

Anything else?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on April 23, 2008, 05:10:44 AM
I know the panels are done. What systems are currently under development?

Not completely, there are a few EPS/ECS switches I'm working on (like IMU power for example), but it's getting "cosmetic" sooner or later.

Backup Crew Pre-Launch (T-3:00:00)?
Prime Crew Pre-Launch (T-1:30:00)?

Good point, currently Backup Crew ingress is T-3:00:00, Prime Crew ingress (and cabin closeout) is at T-1:40:00, the latter one about an hour too late, I don't know how many hours the Backup Crew ingress is too late. Some people complained about that, but moving to the historically correct timeline would make the prelaunch even longer. Any opinions/thoughts about that.

Also, it looks like we have a rather major bug in our meshes, the SLA panels seem to be "45 twisted" on both Saturns. I'm not completely sure about that, I'll post in the modeling forum, but if I'm right I know what I'll do next...

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on June 20, 2008, 10:51:01 AM
As mentioned somewhere else I moved the prime crew ingress to the historically correct T-2h40min. Now I wonder if people want to have the Virtual AGC launch scenario start an hour or so earlier to have more time for the backup crew prelaunch checklist, currently you have 20min only?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on June 20, 2008, 12:08:55 PM
First off, as long as we can time accelerate at 100x, I have no problem with more lead time.

Additionally, I would like to know at what point the crews actually started their checklists.  I believe Ingress is purely the time that they entered the capsule... I'm sure it took some time to get them all buttoned in and close the cabin before the checklist work began.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on June 20, 2008, 01:34:15 PM
First off, as long as we can time accelerate at 100x, I have no problem with more lead time.

We can't, the Virtual AGC is running pretty much from the beginning. (I should clarify that all this applies in Virtual AGC Mode only, Quickstart Mode scenarios still start at T-2h00min, now with the prime crew already in the spacecraft.)

Additionally, I would like to know at what point the crews actually started their checklists.  I believe Ingress is purely the time that they entered the capsule... I'm sure it took some time to get them all buttoned in and close the cabin before the checklist work began.

No, prime crew ingress is already part of the checklist. If you take a look at http://history.nasa.gov/ap16fj/op_procs/aohv2p4-37_4-54.pdf, you'll see that the prime crew prelaunch checklist starts with the CDR entering the CSM, getting connected to the suit circuit, strapped in the seat etc. The ingress process takes about an hour and ends with the backup CMP leaving the spacecraft (the backup crew plays the role of the Astronaut Support Personnel we know from shuttle launches) and hatch closure.

Our checklists start earlier on with the Backup Crew Prelaunch checklist.  I don't know when this checklist began actually, but various press kits state that the backup crew entered the spacecraft at about T-8h30min.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: pattersoncr on June 20, 2008, 04:02:12 PM
First off, as long as we can time accelerate at 100x, I have no problem with more lead time.
We can't, the Virtual AGC is running pretty much from the beginning. (I should clarify that all this applies in Virtual AGC Mode only, Quickstart Mode scenarios still start at T-2h00min, now with the prime crew already in the spacecraft.)
The first step in the backup crew prelaunch procedure is CMC startup.  However, I see no reason that couldn't wait until later (Prime crew prelaunch for example).

Chuck


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on June 20, 2008, 06:41:43 PM
First off, as long as we can time accelerate at 100x, I have no problem with more lead time.

We can't, the Virtual AGC is running pretty much from the beginning. (I should clarify that all this applies in Virtual AGC Mode only, Quickstart Mode scenarios still start at T-2h00min, now with the prime crew already in the spacecraft.)

Additionally, I would like to know at what point the crews actually started their checklists.  I believe Ingress is purely the time that they entered the capsule... I'm sure it took some time to get them all buttoned in and close the cabin before the checklist work began.

No, prime crew ingress is already part of the checklist. If you take a look at http://history.nasa.gov/ap16fj/op_procs/aohv2p4-37_4-54.pdf, you'll see that the prime crew prelaunch checklist starts with the CDR entering the CSM, getting connected to the suit circuit, strapped in the seat etc. The ingress process takes about an hour and ends with the backup CMP leaving the spacecraft (the backup crew plays the role of the Astronaut Support Personnel we know from shuttle launches) and hatch closure.

Our checklists start earlier on with the Backup Crew Prelaunch checklist.  I don't know when this checklist began actually, but various press kits state that the backup crew entered the spacecraft at about T-8h30min.

Cheers
Tschachim

Knowing that... I vote keep the shortened time until we have something that takes up that time.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Zachstar on June 24, 2008, 10:19:43 PM
I second that vote.. There is a difference between realistic and just plain annoying. And if Time accell is going to be an issue then people are just going to be sitting there. Besides most if not almost all will let the MFD due most of the work anyway. And just watch the show.

Lets keep it less annoying at the very tiny cost to realism that only the die hards of die hard realists would notice.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on June 24, 2008, 10:27:20 PM
Lets keep it less annoying at the very tiny cost to realism that only the die hards of die hard realists would notice.

And mind you, those die hard realists will likely be able to make the change themselves.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Zachstar on June 24, 2008, 10:30:56 PM
Lets keep it less annoying at the very tiny cost to realism that only the die hards of die hard realists would notice.

And mind you, those die hard realists will likely be able to make the change themselves.

Very good point!

That is if the phone book of checklists does not drive them up the wall first :P


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on June 26, 2008, 12:52:58 PM
The first step in the backup crew prelaunch procedure is CMC startup.  However, I see no reason that couldn't wait until later (Prime crew prelaunch for example).

Well, it won't be historically correct. The current CMC startup procedure is done by us and is not part of any original checklist. The AGC/DSKY is mentioned the first time at the end of the backup crew prelaunch checklist ("Verify P02"), so P02 was already running before the backup crew entered the spacecraft. I have no reference when it took place exactly, but I suppose the AGC was turned on together with the IMU a couple of hours before backup crew ingress by the GSE guys (the shuttle IMU is turned on about 12 hours before launch for example).

But this discussion reminded me that we can run P03 meanwhile and I did that quite successfully:
http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=1751.0  :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: pattersoncr on June 26, 2008, 04:07:32 PM
that reminds me, is the dual line of sight in the SXT working?
If so, how do you use it?


Chuck


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on June 26, 2008, 04:45:48 PM
No, I don't even know it works exactly or how we want to do that in Orbiter.  :? 


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: pattersoncr on June 26, 2008, 04:50:56 PM
No, I don't even know it works exactly or how we want to do that in Orbiter.  :? 
OK, I'll stop banging my head against the wall trying to figure out P23 :Duh!39835:

Chuck


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on June 26, 2008, 06:47:19 PM
that reminds me, is the dual line of sight in the SXT working?
If so, how do you use it?


Chuck

explain more to me....
I should know more about this as I did extensive research into this, but have forgotten, so give me a refresher.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: pattersoncr on June 26, 2008, 06:58:58 PM
The SXT measured the angle between a star and the horizon.  Visually, there are two images superimposed on each other, you would see both the star and the Earth/moon on top of each other.  You would adjust the trunnion angle until the star sat exactly on the horizon. The CMC then reads the trunnion angle. NASSP doesn't do this.  the SXT doesn't have two lines of sight, right now it's just a more powerful telescope.

Chuck


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on June 26, 2008, 07:02:27 PM
oh right... and one line of sight was fixed yes/no?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: pattersoncr on June 26, 2008, 07:10:57 PM
oh right... and one line of sight was fixed yes/no?
Yes the "Landmark LOS" was fixed (the "Star LOS" being movable).


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on June 26, 2008, 07:14:31 PM
Alright, I remember this feature now and know a hack I wanted to use for this... how much do you need/want it?

I'll look at implementing my hack, and if it's easy, I'll do it...otherwise I want a good reason to move to it up in priority.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: pattersoncr on June 26, 2008, 07:26:18 PM
It's probably not important for Apollo 7 since you can use P22 to update the SV in LEO, but I think we should have a working P23 for Apollo 8.
One solution might be to split the FOV vertically down the middle with one LOS on the right, the other on the right.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on June 26, 2008, 07:31:20 PM
can't do that with orbiter's rendering system...

my hack will be "toggle-able" as it will likely induce epilepsy in someone or piss someone off if it were on all the time.

basically it will consist of an alternating viewpoint that swaps each timestep when turned on... for low frame rates this is not ideal, but the higher your frame rate, the more realistic it becomes... also expect a performance hit.

the ease of implementation is dependent upon how much dseagrav and I had to hardcode to get the proper effect of the internal mechanism...but I think we had a good method that I'll be able to exploit to make this work.

sorryaboutnopunctuationiwrotethisfast


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: pattersoncr on June 26, 2008, 08:20:02 PM
We should prepare for multiple "I tried to look through the sextant, then my computer bogged down, then I had an epileptic seizure..." threads.  :)  Perhaps OVP will offer more elegant solution.  In the meantime, your hack sounds like it'll work.

Chuck


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on June 26, 2008, 08:37:25 PM
it will be defaulted to off.... in otherwords if they don't turn it on, it's not going to slowem down.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on June 26, 2008, 08:49:31 PM
Would it be better to toggle it on a keypress instead?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: lassombra on June 26, 2008, 10:31:19 PM
probably...


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: ryan on June 26, 2008, 10:38:38 PM
If we could reduce the panel numbers, we could do.
1 main panel
2 cdr cb
3 tunnel
4 optics
5 left hand side panel
6 right hand side panel
7 right optical
8l left optical


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on June 27, 2008, 02:04:29 AM
Would it be better to toggle it on a keypress instead?


'twas the plan...but its still defaulting to off.  :wink:

Anyone have a keypress that is open and logical for use here?  I was thinking e for epilepsy, but that's got room for improvement....  :roll:

If we could reduce the panel numbers, we could do.
1 main panel
2 cdr cb
3 tunnel
4 optics
5 left hand side panel
6 right hand side panel
7 right optical
8l left optical


panels are done, and not changing for PA7... also I don't know that this is reasonable for the scope of our project...also it leaves split panel people in the cold.  Of course there is something to be said for having a quick toggle between Lower Equipment Bay and Main Panel, since that puts you 2 keystrokes away from any panel to almost any other one.


PS... I can almost hear dseagrav and movieman cringing at the thought of more code from me and the minute errors I'm likely to create...  :roll: :Duh!39835:


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: ryan on June 27, 2008, 02:32:14 AM
Im not saying to change the panels im just saying to make them more larger you know when your on a panel and you have to Ctrl up, if we could widen them, we could use the keypads to navigate the panels not Ctrl arrows.
Just a suggestion :)


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on June 27, 2008, 03:24:56 AM
Actually that little fix was probably the most painless and rewarding thing I've ever done in the ProjectApollo Code.  Took me a total of 10 compiles and 1 hour from start to finish... 5 just to get it running at first and 5 to tweak it along the way.

DualView Sextant is commited and the keypress to activate it is v for ViewMode.  I caution you, it is not quite pleasant on the ground, but it gets the job done.   In space it's less of an issue, as most background is black.  Blinking moon is a bit odd though.  I placed a governer on the speed at which it would refresh, but this could probably use some tweaking... its at 15 swaps per sim second right now.  This does mean the process can be slowed down by slowing time down, thust making it refresh at 1.5 swaps per sim second.   Play around with it and tell me what you think needs tweaking on it.

PS.  I'm quite proud of the code too.  As dseagrav has done an amazing job with the Optics implementation, it was very seamless to integrate this feature in.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: pattersoncr on June 27, 2008, 04:50:30 AM
Holy crap, that was fast!
Can you build the .dll for me so I can try it out?

Chuck :)


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on June 27, 2008, 07:24:09 AM
Good job, Swatch. May I suggest one change, you're handling the "blinking" in void CMOptics::SystemTimestep(double simdt), but this function can be called multiple times during one Orbiter time step (that's the "subsampling" of the internal systems), so under certain conditions SextDVLOSTog could remain the same after a "full" time step. I'd suggest to move the code to the TimeStep function, which is really called once every Orbiter time step:

void CMOptics::TimeStep(double simdt) {

   double ShaftRate = 0;
   double TrunRate = 0;

   SextDVTimer = SextDVTimer+simdt;
   if (SextDVTimer >= 0.06666){
      SextDVTimer = 0.0;
      SextDVLOSTog=!SextDVLOSTog;
   }


   if (Powered == 0) { return; }

   // Generate rates for telescope and manual mode
   switch(sat->ControllerSpeedSwitch.GetState()) {
   ...


Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on June 27, 2008, 08:35:12 AM
Oh, I didn't mean keypress to toggle on and off, I mean a keypress to "switch eyes" from left to right.

Also, I didn't do the directx pointing part of the code, I just did the integration with the CMC.
Swatch was the one who figured out how to aim the viewpoint, and Tschachim had to show me how to properly get pulse counts out of the CMC.



Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on June 27, 2008, 11:49:38 AM
@Tschachim:  Yea I'll change that...  I meant to have that in there, just picked the wrong timestep.

@dseagrav:  Take the credit man! :-)  It's well structured code in the CMCComputer.cpp


Also, I'm interested in feedback on whether a "flashing" or a "manual swap" is preferred.  Is the flashing too annoying or unusable? Would you prefer to just manually toggle it on and off?   These are the questions that bother me at night.  :roll:


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: lassombra on June 28, 2008, 07:23:23 PM
I think a manual swap would be preferred, as the one is just reference (albeit important reference).


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on June 28, 2008, 11:19:41 PM
Manual swap is easy enough to do.  I must admit I was hoping the effect would be more convincing and our eyes would rectify it as one image, but the tearing makes that hard to do.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: movieman on July 05, 2008, 06:00:14 PM
Did we ever fix the issue with the SIVB velocity changing when the CSM separates, so the AGC can't figure out where it is later in the mission? I kept meaning to look at that, but never did; I have a feeling that the separation code gives it a velocity of about 0.25 m/s relative to the CSM.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: pattersoncr on July 05, 2008, 07:33:33 PM
Did we ever fix the issue with the SIVB velocity changing when the CSM separates, so the AGC can't figure out where it is later in the mission? I kept meaning to look at that, but never did; I have a feeling that the separation code gives it a velocity of about 0.25 m/s relative to the CSM.

Not sure, but we do have the ability to do quick and easy state vector updats, including for the "other vehicle" (SIVB in the case of Apollo 7).

Chuck


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on July 09, 2008, 11:16:39 AM
Did we ever fix the issue with the SIVB velocity changing when the CSM separates...

At least improved, currently the S-IVB doesn't change its inertial velocity and the CSM gains about 0.15 m/s via AddForce, i.e. physically correct and detectable by the accelerometers. But it's still not correct as the S-IVB should gain some "backward" velocity in order to conserve momentum properly.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Swatch on July 09, 2008, 01:58:58 PM
is the .15 m/s a legitimate number for the separation velocity induced by the pyros?  If so, lets just apply equal but opposite forces to the S-IVB and CSM.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Christophe on July 11, 2008, 03:43:02 AM
First off, as long as we can time accelerate at 100x, I have no problem with more lead time.

Additionally, I would like to know at what point the crews actually started their checklists.  I believe Ingress is purely the time that they entered the capsule... I'm sure it took some time to get them all buttoned in and close the cabin before the checklist work began.

I read somewhere that the Backup crew prelaunch check started at about T-8H.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: mikaelanderlund on August 04, 2008, 04:41:55 AM
As mentioned somewhere else I moved the prime crew ingress to the historically correct T-2h40min. Now I wonder if people want to have the Virtual AGC launch scenario start an hour or so earlier to have more time for the backup crew prelaunch checklist, currently you have 20min only?

Cheers
Tschachim

Tschachim, I need more time for prelaunch checklist! Only 20 min :shock:. Is it possible to change BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT Date MJD and BEGIN_SHIPS MISSITIME only without problem with vAGC?

Mikael


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on August 04, 2008, 10:40:49 AM
Is it possible to change BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT Date MJD and BEGIN_SHIPS MISSITIME only without problem with vAGC?

Yes, if you change them both consistently, it should be fine.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: bluespace88 on May 04, 2009, 01:28:22 PM
With all the buzz about the Apollo 8 lunar guidance stuff, and since we are moving to an Apollo 7 only release, what else is there to be finished.  I know the big ones were the EOCA and TVC.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on May 05, 2009, 08:40:01 AM
Thanks for asking!  :)

I'm not sure if there's a TVC issue actually, I'll post about that soon. But as you already mentioned in Ryan's "I'm back"-thread, the Saturn IB launch autopilot needs to be fixed to achieve the correct orbit in terms of inclination and LAN, and the S-IVB "on orbit autopilot" (basically there's almost no such thing right now, just some roll damping) should control the venting and attitude (and everything else the real thing did I'm not aware of), so that the orbit at CSM/LV separation and after that's is by the numbers, too. So if you could take a look at that, it would be very much appreciated!  :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: bluespace88 on May 05, 2009, 08:55:38 AM
looking at the flightplans for Apollo 7, as well as Apollo 8, it looks like the venting caused a 30fps increase in velocity, and after launch, the SIVB would maintain a heads down prograde attitude until events, such as the manual testing by the crew of the SIVB, or the command for it to go into CSM/LV separation attitude, occur.

Just to make sure we're on the right page, this is all in the iu.cpp file, am I correct?
nvm, found it.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on May 05, 2009, 11:51:46 AM
Just to be sure, the launch autopilot is void Saturn1b::AutoPilot(double autoT), the on orbit stuff is in void Saturn::StageOrbitSIVB(double simt, double simdt) (for both the Saturn V and IB), including some preliminary boiloff stuff.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: bluespace88 on June 15, 2009, 04:55:21 PM
Just some thoughts about SIVB orbit control.  During Apollo 7, Mission Control took over SIVB control and had it change its attitude while the astronauts checked.  Would we want to add some kind of SIVB control to PAMFD to simulate that, as well as possible attitude commands for say separation?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on June 16, 2009, 07:57:16 AM
Would we want to add some kind of SIVB control to PAMFD to simulate that, as well as possible attitude commands for say separation?

Yes, PAMFD is the default place for Mission Control stuff, so this sounds like a good idea!  :)


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: bluespace88 on June 16, 2009, 04:14:03 PM
Ok, I will work on that then.

Good news right now is the SIVB now goes around the earth in orb-rate, and has no ill side effects during launch, TLI, or post-sep.  As of now, it is using Orbiter's frame of reference to orient its attitude, and not the vAGC


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Christophe on June 19, 2009, 01:45:32 PM
Ok, I will work on that then.

Good news right now is the SIVB now goes around the earth in orb-rate, and has no ill side effects during launch, TLI, or post-sep.  As of now, it is using Orbiter's frame of reference to orient its attitude, and not the vAGC

Should I understand that now the SIVB is able to maintain a level horizon attitude instead of fixed star relative attitude?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: bluespace88 on June 19, 2009, 08:38:15 PM
That is correct.  The SIVB maintains a constant heads down attitude around earth orbit with its nose pointed towards the velocity vector.   Only exception is TLI burn of course.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on June 24, 2009, 11:24:01 PM
Ok, I will work on that then.

Good news right now is the SIVB now goes around the earth in orb-rate, and has no ill side effects during launch, TLI, or post-sep.  As of now, it is using Orbiter's frame of reference to orient its attitude, and not the vAGC

Should I understand that now the SIVB is able to maintain a level horizon attitude instead of fixed star relative attitude?

It has a set of horizon detectors. It follows earth's horizon. I don't know exactly what it did on the dark side of the planet.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: bluespace88 on July 15, 2009, 05:55:23 PM
I committed a few more changes before I fall behind in coding to do (Works now going to pick up now that our satellite launched with the shuttle) .  The SIVB now has provisions to go into heads down, but it is disabled for the time being until I get the MFD working for SIVB control so the SIVB can be oriented manually. 


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: bluespace88 on July 29, 2009, 07:30:58 PM
Just a quick update.  I added a few MFD connector functions, but it'll be a few weeks before I can come back to work on this.  At work, we're having the ANDE satellite being launched from the shuttle tomorrow and we have antenna problems with the ground station that needs to be fixed before it can track without snapping antennas off, in addition to designing more satellites.

Once I'm done with the summer work, I'll see if I can pick up the pace with the S-IVB booster.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on July 30, 2009, 06:48:43 AM
At work, we're having the ANDE satellite being launched from the shuttle tomorrow and we have antenna problems with the ground station that needs to be fixed before it can track without snapping antennas off, in addition to designing more satellites.

Looks like you have a very interesting job, good luck with ANDE!


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: pattersoncr on September 13, 2009, 08:48:37 AM
Hello all,
After drifting away from NASSP for the last year, I'm back and would like to continue my contribution to the project.
I'd like to update the Word based checklists and to complete the collection (reentry still need to be done).
I'd also like to put together a flight plan (giving what times events should be done and referencing the appropriate procedures) in the same format.
I know significant progresshas been made with the checklist MFD but since I don't have the ability to compile the updated modules, I'm unable to check it out at the moment.
I'm also very curious if we can now put CMC into standby since that would allow time accel >10x.

So, bottom line:
1. Can someone compile a modules pack for me?
2. What needs to be done in terms of documentation for Apollo 7?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: NoName on September 21, 2009, 04:13:18 PM
Well, I would like to commit a few more updates for the CSM before Apollo 7, but which will include only small changes/new features:

- the two mission timers (the new digits and more originally looking background of that displays we already have in the LEM now)
- the new COAS (and potentially an updated version of the EMS ;))

There are also at least two required sound updates, especially the hatch (I can do a good one) and the ECS/suit compressor. The ECS/suit compressor sound is, in my point of view, an important feature for such a realistically simulation. At the moment the CSM crew compartment is way too quiet (well, totally quit actually). I got an original ECS sound from onboard the Shuttle, and modified it so that it sounds like the Apollo Command Module interior, which sounds not much different to the Shuttle's middeck sound (I noticed that in a short scene from "When we left Earth"). Maybe a selectable option within the scenario file would be a good solution for those who like it quiet? Since the ECS suit compressore is running all the time I think, it would be just a simple implementation of that background sound?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on September 26, 2009, 03:54:22 PM
Since the ECS suit compressore is running all the time I think, it would be just a simple implementation of that background sound?

That's no problem I think. The cabin fans already play a sound when running, which seems to be fine as nobody complained about that. It's easy to play a sound when the suit compressors are running. If you provide the sounds, I can do the coding.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: pattersoncr on October 11, 2009, 02:07:10 PM
Is P23 working completely?
I just did a P23 (cislunar navigation) and got
+00000
+00000
for the state vector update.
Does P23 not have the ability to update the state vector or am I just really good? :)


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: NoName on October 16, 2009, 01:01:54 PM
That's no problem I think. The cabin fans already play a sound when running, which seems to be fine as nobody complained about that. It's easy to play a sound when the suit compressors are running. If you provide the sounds, I can do the coding.

That's fine.

I'll provide it "as soon as I can" (I still have to finetune it). I don't know if I'll be able to be back on the project within the following 5 weeks. I'm not really away (my eyes are always here) but I'm sadly quite restricted due to the upcoming final test (industrial clerk as you know), which is going to happen on November 24th and 25th...


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on October 19, 2009, 07:21:24 AM
...but I'm sadly quite restricted due to the upcoming final test (industrial clerk as you know), which is going to happen on November 24th and 25th...

Good luck for your exams!


Title: Release Timeline
Post by: pattersoncr on October 27, 2009, 08:44:40 PM
I know everyone here is doing this as a hobby and that means that this effort is not really conducive to a firm schedule.  However, if we have no planned timeline at all, thing will drag on forever ad we will never have a formal release to share with the community.  I'd like a little more clarity on the planned release timeline.  The last I knew, we were moving toward a release of Apollo 7 only with subsequent missions to follow individually.
I believe there is some (relatively) minor work still going on before Apollo 7 is ready for release.  Do we have a list of what we are waiting on for this mission?  Do we have a date in mind for release of Apollo 7?  Once Apollo 7 is released, what work will remain for Apollo 8?  Do we have a date in mind for that?
Apollo 9 will of course require a working LM so that release timeline will be a bit more nebulous at this point.


Title: Re: Release Timeline
Post by: Tschachim on October 28, 2009, 05:48:41 AM
The last I knew, we were moving toward a release of Apollo 7 only with subsequent missions to follow individually.

Correct.

I believe there is some (relatively) minor work still going on before Apollo 7 is ready for release.  Do we have a list of what we are waiting on for this mission?

Yes, major showstopper right now is:

The Saturn IB launch autopilot needs to be fixed to achieve the correct orbit in terms of inclination and LAN, and the S-IVB "on orbit autopilot" should control the venting and attitude (and everything else the real thing did I'm not aware of), so that the orbit at CSM/LV separation and after that's is by the numbers, too. BlueDragon is/was working on that.

You and I are working on: Comprehensive checklist that allows operation of Apollo 7 from launch to splashdown according to historic procedures and situations. I'm fixing the last parts of the prelaunch checklists right now (e.g. ASCP etc.)

Also we need:
- More Wiki articles about the systems (like this: http://nassp.sf.net/wiki/SPS)
- Wiki tutorial for Apollo 7
- ORDEAL?
- Some smaller fixes and additions of various systems I'll pick up during the checklist work
- Perhaps better splashdown site/base at least with a carrier and ships meshes?

Do we have a date in mind for release of Apollo 7? 

I can't tell any release dates from my side, real life is too unpredictable, sorry.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: NoName on October 28, 2009, 09:58:57 AM
From my side there is just three things before an Apollo 7 release: a new and final mission timer graphic and digits (during updating the LEM panels I figured out that the current two CSM mission timers also don't look like the real ones), new and final EMS graphics, and the suit compressor background sound. But I'm currently preparing my exams, so I'll be probably back on the project no earlier than November 26th.

I think that panel 306 also should work so far for Apollo 7.


Title: Apollo 7 Rendezvous
Post by: pattersoncr on October 29, 2009, 04:25:15 PM
I've been bouncing the Apollo 7 mission report against the Apollo 7 Flight Plan and am trying to envision how we will perform the CSM S-IVB rendezvous early in the mission.
Here are the actual burns that were performed:
#1 003:20:09  Phasing Maneuver 16.3 sec RCS
#2 015:52:00  Phasing Maneuver #2 17.6 sec RCS  Apparently the S-IVB's orbit didn't match predicted so a second phasing maneuver was needed.
#3 026:24:55  Corrective Combination 9.26 sec SPS  Used to set up the subsequent Burn (CSI).  We have this in the flightplan as the 1st SPS Burn.
#4 028:00:56  CSI  7.76 sec SPS Put the CSM into a coelliptic orbit with the S-IVB.  We have this in the flightplan as the 2nd SPS Burn.
#5 029:16:13  TPI 46 sec RCS Transfer Phase Initiation.
#6 029:37:48  Midcourse Correction (TPM)
#7 029:43:55  Braking maneuver

Some thoughts on the rendezvous sequence:
#4 CSI, #5 TPI, & #6 TPM can be calculated using the CSM Programs (P32, P34, P35).

#7 Braking can be performed manually, as (I believe) it was in real life, by pointing the COAS at the S-IVB and thrusting aft.  The flight plan gives these "Braking Gate" values:
25fps @ 1nm
15fps @ .5nm
10fps @ .25nm
 5fps @ 1000 ft
V83 & V85 will display Range & Range Rate based on the stored state vector.*

We currently have #1 "pre calculated" as a 5.7 fps retrograde burn.
#2 can probably be performed the same way (the user simply plugs a predetermined value into P30).

That leaves #3.  The goal of this maneuver was to place the CSM 8nm below and 1.32deg behind the S-IVB.  I don't believe that any of the CMC prethrust programs are suitable to calculate the maneuver.  I don't think the EOCA is designed for this either.  Perhaps IMFD with offset targeting can be used?  Has anyone done any investigation here?

*Is there any special action required to use PAMFD to update the S-IVB SV in the LM SV slot?  In other word, if I use PAMFD to update the CMC, does the LM SV get updated based on the real data for the S-IVB?  If this is not automatic, how do we accomplish this?  The excel flightplan says to use "AS-205-S4BSTG" as source but does this update the LM SV or the CSM SV?  In other words, does the SV update procedure in the excel file work correctly as written?



Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on January 13, 2010, 06:16:25 PM
Once I'm done with the summer work, I'll see if I can pick up the pace with the S-IVB booster.

As mentioned in the 20100104 beta release post, the Saturn IB launch autopilot has been improved and now achieves a historically more correct orbit in terms of apogee, perigee, inclination and spacecraft position at insertion for Apollo 7:

Apogee (pad radius): 282.134 km
Perigee (pad radius): 227.852 km
Inclination (equ): 31.58
LAN: unknown (does anyone have an idea or reference?)
Spacecraft position at insertion: at or near perigee

This is considered as a temporary fix until the LVDC++ work-in-progress is ready, but should be fine for release. BlueSpace, I hope this is a good starting point for the on-orbit stuff, if I remember correctly, you're working on:

- At MECO the S-IVB maintains inertial attitude for 20s
- At MECO + 20s the S-IVB changes attitude to LVLH, heads down and maintains this attitude
- Just in case, I attached the parameters for venting and separation from the mission report
- Regarding the S-IVB takeover tests I checked the Virtual AGC side already. It's rather simple (controlled by the FDAI error output), if you like, I can do that when the other stuff is done.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: bluespace88 on February 08, 2010, 05:51:56 PM
so far I have the LVLH implemented.  Concerning the takeover tests, is that going to be handled behind the scenes, or have the user be able to do it themselves through pamfd?  Its already committed for you to see, but be warned that theres no way to turn it off yet, so doing star sightings while still attached to the sivb is impossible right now.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on February 22, 2010, 09:38:04 AM
Apollo 7 S-IVB on orbit attitude control, venting and Saturn takeover mode for the VAGC is committed to CVS.

Concerning the takeover tests, is that going to be handled behind the scenes, or have the user be able to do it themselves through pamfd?

The Saturn takeover mode tests were done (by the crew) with the AGC, see GSOP 3.5 or Saturn::SaturnTakeoverMode. It's in CVS and working fine hopefully.  :)
Control via PAMFD is intended as a simulation of MCC / ground control of the S-IVB. If I read the mission report / transcripts correctly, this didn't happen at least up to separation, so the S-IVB on orbit stuff should be fine for release now. I'll do new beta modules soon.

Its already committed for you to see, but be warned that theres no way to turn it off yet, so doing star sightings while still attached to the sivb is impossible right now.

Well, I won't call it impossible as the real guys managed to do it somehow.  :wink:
Hint: You can cheat with the KILR button on the GNC screen of PAMFD.

Next is separation and the first phasing burn, so finally I'm going to have a look at the stuff pattersoncr mentioned above.  :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: bluespace88 on February 22, 2010, 01:45:36 PM
ah thanks for the tip.

good to see the sivb is ready on orbit.  Guess since we're moving to separation, that means I can work on the pamfd without fear of something being changed with the sivb.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on February 25, 2010, 06:59:01 AM
I forgot to mention what the S-IVB is doing actually and when:

SECO + 20s: S-IVB goes LVLH, heads down and maintains orbital rate
GET +1:34:32: S-IVB starts venting
GET +1:46:33: S-IVB stops venting
GET +2:43:00: S-IVB pitches down 20 and maintains orbital rate
GET +2:51:15: S-IVB holds inertial attitude. If you don't separate, it will stay "forever" in this attitude.
(GET +2:55:00 Nominal separation, the newly created S-IVB vessel (sivb.dll) holds inertial attitude, too.)
GET +3:17:00 The S-IVB (vessel) changes attitude to retrograde LVLH and maintains orbital rate

Guess since we're moving to separation, that means I can work on the pamfd without fear of something being changed with the sivb.

The S-IVB does some things after that I don't know yet in detail (venting again etc.), these are the only changes I plan to take a look at later in case they're rendezvous-relevant (i.e. in case they change the S-IVB orbit).

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Apollo 7 Rendezvous
Post by: Tschachim on February 25, 2010, 07:10:28 AM
Some info emerged:

#4 CSI, #5 TPI, & #6 TPM can be calculated using the CSM Programs (P32, P34, P35).

There is no P32 in Colossus 249. But there are P38 and P39 (??): http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=2279.0

That leaves #3.  The goal of this maneuver was to place the CSM 8nm below and 1.32deg behind the S-IVB.  I don't believe that any of the CMC prethrust programs are suitable to calculate the maneuver.  I don't think the EOCA is designed for this either.  Perhaps IMFD with offset targeting can be used?  Has anyone done any investigation here?

Perhaps GMAT (??): http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=2276.0


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on February 25, 2010, 10:01:16 AM
According to the Apollo 7 mission report P38 and P39 were not used.



Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on February 25, 2010, 07:09:15 PM
OK, some "organisational cleanup":

Discussion about the Corrective Combination Burn continues here: http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=2276.0

Discussion about the CSI Burn continues here: http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=2279.0

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: NoName on May 05, 2010, 09:51:28 PM
Now that the Command Module instrument panel graphics are finished, I would like to ask if it's okay for everybody that I update the Wiki tutorial screenshots which are related to the Command Module instrument panels?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Tschachim on May 06, 2010, 05:56:28 AM
Go ahead!  :ThumbsUp432: :)

PS: Got your PM, but still extremly busy in real life...  :gloomy3353:


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: NoName on May 06, 2010, 06:42:56 AM
PS: Got your PM, but still extremly busy in real life...  :gloomy3353:

Don't worry :wink: What should I say? I was that much busy that it took almost 6 month to get back to NASSP :oops:

I have to do another exam by the way (again...), next weak: book-keeping (Rechnungswesen). But it should be fine this time, although numbers are not my world.

But I'm fully back on NASSP. I won't say what's exactly comming next right after the Lunar Module panels will be complete very soon as well. All I say is: visuals, lot's of... But this will go into a "Steps before Apollo X) thread :wink:


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on April 27, 2016, 09:46:08 AM
For a while now we are basically "feature complete" for the Apollo 7 mission. The current goal is to work on a Release 7.0 that includes both Apollo 7 and 8. Nevertheless I think that we should make an effort to get Apollo 7 on a release level sooner than later. In my mind the two things that need the most work are:

-MCC major maneuver assistance: I have learned a lot from implementing this for Apollo 8 so I might go back to Apollo 7 and improve it. There are still some things to be done, like streamlining the saving/loading of parameters and making sure uplinks don't occur when the computer is busy or repeat an uplink if that was the case. So the maneuver assistance does work from launch to splashdown, but still some work has to be done to make this a mature feature, so to speak. And even then, should this be the default setting that the maneuver assistance is used? I would probably say yes, but always leave the option to deactivate it. With the MCC feature basically everything has to be done by the book. If people want more flexibility then they can use the RTCC MFD or other MFDs. And for any training scenario we might provide the MCC feature won't be active, too.

-Documentation: While some aspects of the MCC UI might still be changed, I think at least Apollo 7 is far along enough to work on documentation again. What we want to provide are the word checklists pattersoncr is working on, which replace the original checklists we don't have and the old Excel checklists. So those should be as close to the original as possible. I can work on updating the manual for the RTCC MFD. I don't think we need additiona,l extensive manuals explaining how NASSP works. Expand the Project Apollo Checklist MFD so that it works step by step as far as possible and everything else can be treated as the real spacecraft for which we have real procedures and real handbooks (like the AOH). A bunch of training scenarios would be nice, too, but let's wait creating those, or else with changes we have to do a lot of scenario maintenance.

And what even is the status of the quickstart scenario? Does that even work anymore? Do we even want to support that?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: eddievhfan1984 on April 27, 2016, 11:10:23 PM
I feel like we should give Quickstart a miss. Most everyone who's going to be using NASSP knows that it's rather a steep learning curve to start with (hell, Orbiter is almost nothing BUT steep learning curves), and trying to balance the QS scenarios with the ones using the AGC and LVDC may end up being counterproductive. No one's gonna (or should) start using space sims with Project Apollo, IMO. haha


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: kneecaps on April 28, 2016, 04:27:12 AM
I feel like we should give Quickstart a miss. Most everyone who's going to be using NASSP knows that it's rather a steep learning curve to start with (hell, Orbiter is almost nothing BUT steep learning curves), and trying to balance the QS scenarios with the ones using the AGC and LVDC may end up being counterproductive. No one's gonna (or should) start using space sims with Project Apollo, IMO. haha

My two cents, I agree. There is little point in creating a sim with such realism if a quickstart mode abstracts that all away. There are better ways to give the casual simmer (gamer? layman?) a fun Apollo experience.

I love the idea of training scenarios.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: jalexb88 on April 28, 2016, 01:19:15 PM
After testing the Apollo 8 mission, MCC looks to be in very good shape and I think that keeping the MCC maneuver assistance for "by-the-book" maneuvers is all we need right now. No need for more flexibility like full abort support yet beyond the normal abort pads generated throughout the mission. I would also vote to have it on by default, with an option to deactivate it, then use RTCC mfd, or trying your skills at a full no-comm P23/37 return to earth.  :shock:

As for the quickstart scenarios, I also think that they are rather irrelevant now. There are others addons out there that offer a more casual Apollo experience. Nassp should have only one mode: realism. I do however think good documentation and the checklist MFD will be invaluable to help new users in their learning curve and not be intimated by the shear complexity.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on April 28, 2016, 04:34:58 PM
After testing the Apollo 8 mission, MCC looks to be in very good shape and I think that keeping the MCC maneuver assistance for "by-the-book" maneuvers is all we need right now. No need for more flexibility like full abort support yet beyond the normal abort pads generated throughout the mission. I would also vote to have it on by default, with an option to deactivate it, then use RTCC mfd, or trying your skills at a full no-comm P23/37 return to earth.  :shock:

I wanted to attempt a complete no-comm return before I started trying to fix the rare P23 CTDs. I'm still planning to do it, just have to qucksave more often. I'd say it is definitely possible with NASSP right now.

Good to hear the MCC stuff worked so well for you. It will become very valuable for later missions, especially the time shortly before lunar landing. There are a bunch of uplinks and important PADs in a short time before DOI; if you want to do this by the book then "manual" calculations with the RTCC MFD make the timeline very difficult. Right now Apollo 7 and 8 are in a pretty good state when it comes to the MCC mission tracking, just a little bit more reliability is needed.

Quote
As for the quickstart scenarios, I also think that they are rather irrelevant now. There are others addons out there that offer a more casual Apollo experience. Nassp should have only one mode: realism. I do however think good documentation and the checklist MFD will be invaluable to help new users in their learning curve and not be intimated by the shear complexity.

I agree about the quickstart scenarios. If I understand the NASSP history correctly, then quickstart scenarios were created when a bunch of changes had to be made to integrate the Virtual AGC, including e.g. offset engine etc. The most complete and nice to look at Apollo experience in Orbiter is AMSO. AMSO is great and there really is no reason to have a mode in NASSP which is basically like AMSO, but not so pretty. :D

What I meant by "we don't need much additional documentation" is that not much more documentation about NASSP specifically will be needed. For features like the MCC and manuals for the RTCC MFD, yes, but for the most part it will be "how to use the CSM and LM" and not "how to use NASSP". Most of the original documentation will (and is) possible to use and no extensive tutorials about the use of specific tools in Orbiter should be necessary. It's a simulation from the astronauts perspective, for the most part at least.

But a bunch of training scenarios for each mission would indeed be nice. Rendezvous and reentry come to my mind first, those are challenging even in the nominal case. And lots of off-nominal scenarios are also easy to set up, even right now without extensive failure support. It's just that maintaining a lot of scenarios is diffcult while there are still changes being done to the actual simulation. Some time last year I began creating some rendezvous procedures for the Checklist MFD, I can work on that a little bit more. I have been asked to make a video about that, but I think I'll instead release a scenario with updated Apollo 7 procedures for the Checklist MFD that has the rendezvous step by step from just after NSR to station keeping. I think I'll do that and update the manual for the RTCC MFD, that should be lots of work which is useful for Apollo 7.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: jalexb88 on April 28, 2016, 05:06:31 PM
I'm in the middle of a no-comm return as well. Im at work until Saturday though before I'll be able to complete it and report here. I competly agree about using the MCC for all of the normal timeline. As for the RTCC mfd I meant using it after flying an abort pad for which after there is no MCC support, but I think I rather like the P23/37 way  :cool7777:  Whenever I find some time I could lend a hand with documentation as I have flown these procedures so many times over and over  :ROTFL3453:


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on October 10, 2016, 12:01:39 PM
Another revival for this thread. Currently I am working on the Apollo 7 Checklist MFD file. When that is complete in about a week, we have reached another big step towards the 7.0 release. We should then think about what still needs to be done. A few things come to my mind:

-Major features (https://github.com/dseagrav/NASSP/milestone/1). "MCC state save/load support" is probably finished, although the PADs aren't saved. Should that be done? "MCC major maneuver assistance for Apollo 7/8 major maneuvers" is mostly done, all I could find missing so far were a few state vector uplinks for Apollo 7. "Checklists & Documentation for flying Apollo 7/8" is what we are currently finishing. I can do a bit more "Cleanup "Legacy" Compilation Warnings".

-Colossus237 implementation. If jalexb88, who is testing Apollo 8 with C237, doesn't have any additional problems with this AGC version and when I have successfully flown Apollo 7 until splashdown, then I'll commit the change of the AGC version for Apollo 7+8. This will break all old scenarios and it's hopefully the last big change to break scenarios before release.

-LVDC integration into the IU class. This can probably postponed until after the release. Currently the LVDC is fairly standalone and a lot of functions are hacked in, e.g. interaction with the CSM. The old IU has an elaborate system for connections between CSM/S-IVB, S-VB/LM and so on. This should be used by the LVDC. Another reason to move the LVDC out of the basic Saturn V and Saturn IB classes is to run it after separation from the S-IVB. Currently the LVDC gets deleted upon separation, so it can't do attitude hold for TD&E, maneuvering to LOX Dump attitude etc. But all this isn't really a big problem.

-Bugs. At least we should take a look at the optics bug (https://github.com/dseagrav/NASSP/issues/20) that happens in P23 sometimes. Once we are not changing too much anymore we can of course search for more bugs. Please post these as issues on Github.

-Documentation. Do we still want to create a word flight plan for Apollo 8? The actual flight plan is mostly usable. Are we allowed to distribute the actual flight plan with NASSP? If not, we really should list the actual flown documentation somewhere that can be used with NASSP. The word checklists still needs a few tweaks, and so does the Apollo 7 rendezvous checklist. Also, the wiki situation still needs to be solved. I have no idea what the best solution for this is. It would be great if we could continue using the main URL that links to NASSP (http://nassp.sourceforge.net/), because everyone who is searching for NASSP will be going there.

-Scenarios. Once we are sure nothing will be changed anymore that will break scenarios, we can think about creating a bunch of scenario for Apollo 7+8. I am thinking about various states during the missions, like Earth and Lunar entry, rendezvous training, just before launch etc. We have a very advanced simulation, so we could even create scenarios for some backup modes like reentry with the EMS. I am sure there are a lot more ideas for useful scenarios.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on October 26, 2016, 01:24:39 PM
Colossus 237 is now implemented and the Checklist MFD files for Apollo 7 and 8 are ready, although they could use some testing I guess. What do we still need to do now? @dseagrav, what do you consider mandatory before the release? From my point of view it is mostly documentation and bug fixes now. And I can begin to create some scenarios, I am sure a few people here can come up with some ideas for that, too.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on October 26, 2016, 03:27:01 PM
All I'd consider mandatory for release is that we get a few people who are sufficiently interested in Apollo but have not seen recent versions of NASSP before to run through a few scenarios to make sure we aren't missing anything. Ideally, between MCC and the checklist MFD the average Orbiter user should not HAVE to refer to a wiki or forums or anything to successfully complete a scenario. If we are sufficiently close to that goal then we should be good to go.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: rcflyinghokie on October 26, 2016, 08:37:44 PM
I mean I am up to speed on the current state of the project but I have not touched Apollo 7 at all, I could take a break from the LM and run through that scenario and see if anything stands out.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on October 27, 2016, 04:20:19 AM
The reason for getting someone unfamiliar with the present state of things is to get a fresh perspective from someone who doesn't have our idea of how things "should" go. Are they going to have problems with the MCC interaction or lack of the usual Orbiter autopilots? Maybe they'll do things we don't do and trigger issues we don't see. It also can't hurt to put it on a few machines it hasn't been on yet and see if there's any issues with low performance or antivirus interference.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: eddievhfan1984 on October 27, 2016, 05:29:11 AM
Wish we could get Scott Manley to help test the RC. That would also bring quite a bit of attention to the project...


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on October 27, 2016, 05:58:49 AM
Wish we could get Scott Manley to help test the RC. That would also bring quite a bit of attention to the project...

I've been unregularly watching his videos over the last few years. And he certainly is well aware of NASSP, he has mentioned it in videos and on Twitter. I don't think he is quite the hardcore simmer though, and there is not all that much video game in NASSP.

I have been thinking about a fun challenge to introduce NASSP to more people in the Orbiter community. I call it the "Kevin Bacon Challenge", because in the Apollo 13 movie Kevin Bacon fails during training of a manual/EMS reentry. it would be a SCS reentry with the goal to land as close to the carrier as possible. A challenge like that can be implemented in Orbiter with lua scripts, I know how to do that. Manual reentry is a good choice for such a challenge, I think, because you basically only need two controls: roll left and roll right. Mastering it and getting to know the EMS as an aid is difficult, but you can perform a bad or good reentry without studying for hours.

I am sure if Scott Manley were to make a video about NASSP, then something like this challenge would be the most suitable for his channel. We probably don't want the attention just now, because in the current state of NASSP there are still many open questions to newcomers. Which is why dseagrav is absolutely right, we have a few powerful tools and features (MCC, RTCC, Checklist MFD) which are not too obvious for someone new. So, I am thinking maybe an "Introduction to NASSP" document should be added, that gives a basic explanation and where to find more information.

@papymaj5 has already volunteered as a beta tester, we probably should have a separate thread for bug reports and things that are unclear. NASSP has been in beta until now, I don't know much about these things, but I guess soon we can call it Release Candidate, as Eddie mentioned!? We can then probably ask people over at the Orbiter forums to help beta test.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: eddievhfan1984 on October 27, 2016, 06:10:10 AM
I think it would also be a good idea to produce a series of instructional videos to get people familiar with some of the non-default-Orbiter aspects of NASSP, like using the AGC and abort systems, IMU alignment and sextant tracking, and so on. We're all old hands at it from doing it so long and doing the research, but we'd need to provide some way to get total n00bs to Project Apollo P52'ing like a pro with minimal fuss.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: rcflyinghokie on October 27, 2016, 08:46:21 AM
I think it would also be a good idea to produce a series of instructional videos to get people familiar with some of the non-default-Orbiter aspects of NASSP, like using the AGC and abort systems, IMU alignment and sextant tracking, and so on. We're all old hands at it from doing it so long and doing the research, but we'd need to provide some way to get total n00bs to Project Apollo P52'ing like a pro with minimal fuss.

This is a fantastic idea!  I know @indy91 has made a few videos with it before, what software was used?  I would be willing to help with this as well.

Also I noticed there are a ton of registered users on this forum but only a few active, perhaps reaching out to them and making a forum post asking for testers?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on October 27, 2016, 09:50:47 AM
I have used OBS (https://obsproject.com), which is open source and easy to use. Looks great, too. My videos are obviously more demonstrations than tutorials, but there are already a bunch of videos like that.

Bunyap has made a few videos back in the day (https://sourceforge.net/projects/nassp/files/Videos%20and%20Multimedia/Project%20Apollo%20-%20NASSP%207/) and also last year, when he was more active here, on his Youtube channel (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoiMNu5jyFzTYZTyuz0PNuDWNqEgPgZyJ). I'll contact him soon anyway, he provided audio for Apollo 7 and there are two files which still have quidar tones, which he wanted to remove. There also is the occasional other video on Youtube, like this one from macieksoft, who is also occasionally active here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgsw3_d8fkc

I really like Bunyaps videos, I'm sure once he gets into NASSP again he will do a few more videos.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on October 27, 2016, 10:44:44 AM
When we're close enough say something and I will update the build for master branch to call itself Release Candidate instead of Beta.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: thewonderidiot on October 27, 2016, 06:21:15 PM
... a few people who are sufficiently interested in Apollo but have not seen recent versions of NASSP before ...

I think I probably fit in that bucket. The furthest I've ever gone with NASSP is installing it to try to test out VirtualAGC changes I've made... but then I quickly realized I had no idea what the heck I was doing. I am a big fan of aircraft study sims, though, and would love to learn more than just the internal AGC workings.  :)


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on October 29, 2016, 05:28:16 AM
@thewonderidiot, you have probably seen this guide already: http://nassp.sourceforge.net/wiki/Installation It's outdated, but apart from the fact that you don't need any modules pack, but just the latest git build, it should still be mostly accurate.

I'll probably make a separate post for a few explanations for testing. Or even better, someone who is better with the English language than me starts working on an introductory document for new NASSP users, that would be supplied with NASSP, so that people are not dependant on reading the wiki or this forum.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: rcflyinghokie on October 29, 2016, 09:26:40 AM
I'll probably make a separate post for a few explanations for testing. Or even better, someone who is better with the English language than me starts working on an introductory document for new NASSP users, that would be supplied with NASSP, so that people are not dependant on reading the wiki or this forum.

Is this going to be installation and setup for NASSP on Orbiter 2016?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on October 29, 2016, 09:36:24 AM
Is this going to be installation and setup for NASSP on Orbiter 2016?

No and we don't really have something like that for Orbiter 2010, right? A single document that new NASSP users should read first?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: rcflyinghokie on October 29, 2016, 09:43:07 AM
No and we don't really have something like that for Orbiter 2010, right? A single document that new NASSP users should read first?

Ok so this is for the beta on 2010 then.  And I do not think we do, only the wiki I believe.

I assume we are going to want the tester to just download the modules pack if they arent already set up on git, correct?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on October 29, 2016, 10:18:24 AM
I assume we are going to want the tester to just download the modules pack if they arent already set up on git, correct?

Not only tester, nobody who doesn't help with development should have to set up git. A single document just as an introduction, explaining how to install NASSP, how to set it up and various features like MCC, RTCC MFD and Checklist MFD.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Thymo on October 29, 2016, 11:29:51 AM
Will new users use a stable release or will they use the beta modules?

I would think we would also need a new wiki/website to have some place central to present the project.
Personally I wouldn't think a simple install note on git will look very appealing.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on October 29, 2016, 11:42:22 AM
Will new users use a stable release or will they use the beta modules?

Right now there is no stable release. And once there is a stable release, all the beta versions will be for Orbiter 2016. So there really will only be the choice between the Orbiter 2010 release version or the NASSP Beta for Orbiter 2016.

I would think we would also need a new wiki/website to have some place central to present the project.
Personally I wouldn't think a simple install note on git will look very appealing.

Oh, we absolutely should have a working website with the already existing wiki. It would really be sooo convenient if we could use the current wiki. It's the first thing you find when searching for NASSP. But a website/wiki doesn't replace a user manual that is distributed with NASSP.

For example, the files for the Checklist MFD you can find under "Doc\Project Apollo - NASSP\Checklists" already can cause confusion, if not explained. A user who has asked me a lot of questions about NASSP on the Orbiter Forum, started using the Excel sheets for the Checklist MFD as his checklist for the mission. These things are nowhere explained. And you shouldn't have to visit a wiki or this forum just to find out what these files are for.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Thymo on October 29, 2016, 08:18:34 PM
How much traffic is being expected? I've got a server with mediawiki running at home on a 150mbit down 15mbit up connection.
If it's turns out not to be enough bandwith we can alteast use it to get most of the stuff over from the old wiki.

http://vanbeers.ddns.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page (http://vanbeers.ddns.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page)


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on October 31, 2016, 01:28:30 AM
It would really be sooo convenient if we could use the current wiki.
Through a hilarious and unlikely series of events, you get your wish. We have regained control of the wiki and it's been upgraded to 1.26, which is the newest supported version that supports the version of php that Sourceforge provides. It is not yet clear what exactly the update broke and what needs adjustment. Please see the website discussion thread for more details or to contribute.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: Thymo on October 31, 2016, 08:37:12 AM
Ok. With everything working again. There are still some open issues on GitHub.

https://github.com/dseagrav/NASSP/milestone/1

Mostly are almost finished I think. If they are they can be closed. Otherwise they need to be fixed and we'll be really close to an actual release!  :Excited432:


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on October 31, 2016, 10:00:44 AM
The MCC major maneuver assistance can probably be closed. Although there was something jalexb88 mentioned a while ago about MCC7 during Apollo 8, I'm not sure if I ever fixed that.

The optics bug only really happens in P23 and can be rather annoying. Haven't been able to find out more than what I wrote in the issue comment.

For "MCC state save/load support" only the PADs aren't saved I think. I looked into that a little bit, but wasn't sure how to save a string with multiple lines. In my attempt it always cut off most of the PAD string.

For documentation I really would like a short user manual that is supplied with NASSP. Although I can imagine it can be mostly arranged from wiki articles.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on October 31, 2016, 10:05:19 AM
For PAD saving/loading you'd either have to save just the numeric values that make up the PAD (possibly as separate values, like how AGC memory is managed) or recalculate it at load. I'm not sure which is more of a pain.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on October 31, 2016, 10:12:19 AM
I mean, the intention is that the PADs are written down on the appropiate form, so if you close Orbiter before you have done that, then it's really the users own fault. For MCC updates with uplinks there already is the option to repeat the calculation+uplink, for the case an uplink has failed. It could be implement for the more general case that you simply want to have the PAD calculated again. Which is of course already possible through the debug menu.

The method with saving the values could work, although it indeed will be a painful process to do that for every value of every PAD.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on October 31, 2016, 10:20:50 AM
Another option is to break the PAD into pieces and save/load them that way.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: rcflyinghokie on October 31, 2016, 05:13:17 PM
Maybe a little out of left field but what about an option in say an MFD to recalculate the PAD to re-display it instead of the debug menu?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on November 01, 2016, 06:43:10 AM
The optics bug only really happens in P23 and can be rather annoying. Haven't been able to find out more than what I wrote in the issue comment.

When this bug is hit, does it hang there forever inside the loop or actually crash/exit?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on November 01, 2016, 07:36:04 AM
My description in the issue comment was not quite correct. It does not actually cause a CTD; that's why I was able to pause the simulation in debug mode to have a look at the state of the simulation in Visual Studio. The issue happens if you manually move the shaft (maybe trunnion, too) close to 0. It must be some kind of rare case when the sign of the angle is changing and this line of code:

Code:
while (fabs(fabs(OpticsShaft) - fabs(ShaftMoved)) >= OCDU_SHAFT_STEP) {

can't deal with it. Which is why it is stuck in the loop and the variable ShaftMoved reaches the very wrong value of 391501.66411046032 and increasing.

Also, I will save the PADs line by line. I've already learned something about the "stringstream" class thanks to that. Just need to figure out loading the PAD from the scenario.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on November 01, 2016, 09:17:24 AM
Yeah, this is called "floating-point uncertainty". The computer's internal representation of floating-point numbers is an approximation, and sometimes operations on them can have unexpected results.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on November 01, 2016, 09:51:12 AM
Floating point precision was not one of the causes I suspected. Any ideas how to fix it?

I have implemented the PAD and uplink string save/loading now. I had to save all the values instead of the long string line by line, because the displayed PAD isn't stored as a string in the padForm variable. Each time a new display is requested the display string is newly assembled. So I had to implement the saving/loading individually for each type of PAD. I expect some bugs, so please help test the new saving/loading.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on November 02, 2016, 06:03:32 AM
I have attempted to cleanup all of the remaining compiler warnings. @dseagrav or anyone else, data types are not my specialty, so maybe someone could have a look at these changes and confirm they are ok.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on November 02, 2016, 07:48:38 AM
So what exactly is the optics resolved mode supposed to do? I was under the impression it was supposed to translate OHC commands such that up/down/left/right moved the LOS up/down/left/right from the viewer's point of view, whereas direct mode just drives shaft and trunnion as-is. When I select resolved mode I get results that make no sense.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on November 02, 2016, 09:28:56 AM
I'm pretty sure it is working as intended. My sources were AOH, Systems Handbook and a document about the development of the CSM Optics Subsystem that had the actual equations for the matrix transformation of the shaft and trunnion commands. I can't findthat document in my collection right now, I am still searching.

The AOH says: "The matrix transformation makes the image motion correspond directly to the hand controller motion. This is up, down, right, and left motions of the hand controller command; the target image moves up, down, right and left respectively, in the field of view. In other words, the image motion is in the X-Y spacecraft coordinate system."

It is useful for landmark tracking, because you can command up and down and the sextant will move up and down in your direction of flight. Equally left and right commands move the optics out-of-plane when looking at the Earth/Moon.

EDIT: Here is the document: https://archive.org/details/nasa_techdoc_19700015844 Start reading at page 3-18.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on November 03, 2016, 03:49:22 AM
Sidenote: I just noticed something. The FDAI is a motor-driven ball instrument, not a gyro instrument. When power is removed, shouldn't it simply freeze in place?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on November 03, 2016, 06:46:17 AM
Sidenote: I just noticed something. The FDAI is a motor-driven ball instrument, not a gyro instrument. When power is removed, shouldn't it simply freeze in place?

Isn't that exactly what it is doing? If you set the FDAI/GPI Power switch to OFF, then both FDAI don't move anymore, but they aren't set to 0. If you open the two SCS System circuit breakers the same thing happens. In which case does the FDAI return to 0?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: abr35 on November 03, 2016, 03:13:08 PM
I did some documentation for the NASSP wiki several years ago before real life got in the way. What still need to be done in the way of documentation before the Apollo 7/8 release? Any tutorials or systems left unexplained?


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on November 03, 2016, 03:32:46 PM
Missing from the wiki are the systems that were implemented in the last few years I guess. The first things that come to my mind are the Entry mode for the EMS and the LVDC++ that can now perform launches and TLI. There is also no explanation for the three MFDs that come with NASSP: Project Apollo MFD, Checklist MFD and RTCC MFD. There is a manual for the RTCC MFD which can be found under "\Doc\Project Apollo - NASSP\Programmers Notes", but I think wiki articles would be good to have for the MFDs, too. The MCC maneuver assistance, which is a very new feature, also has no wiki article, yet. It isn't really explained anywhere at all.

And for documentation other than the wiki, an introductory manual would be great. Right now there is no such single document that gets released with NASSP. There is just a collection of specific documentation, checklists, flightplans etc. So a document that a new user can read before having to consult the wiki or this forum would be useful.

What I would also like to find out is if we can legally distribute actual mission documents with NASSP. For Apollo 7 there are too many changes between the Preliminary Flightplan and the actual flown mission, but for Apollo 8 the actual flight plan can be used for the most part. If not, then we can write the flight plan as a Word document, as was done for Apollo 7.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on November 03, 2016, 04:50:10 PM
Isn't that exactly what it is doing?

I had a brain fart. When switching the active FDAI during GDC alignment, the other returns to zero. But in that case, power is not removed, only the input.



Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on December 15, 2016, 09:15:52 AM
From my side I have implemented everything that I would consider mandatory for the 7.0 release. So if nothing major comes up, I would like to progress to the Release Candidate state. As is good tradition for Orbiter addons, let's do this next Tuesday. Then we can advertise it in the Orbiter community and maybe people will try it over Christmas. We should then take some time refining documentation, fixing bugs etc. While I consider a few more scenarios mandatory for the release, this should happen as the very last thing we do for NASSP 7.0. One change for the Virtual AGC padload could potentially render all scenarios outdated. So we can start the Release Candidate phase without the complete scenario package.

Maybe some time in January or February we can then do the actual release. We should branch off the Orbiter 2010 version then, we might need to do some minor fixes still for Orbiter 2010. But the Master branch will be for Orbiter 2016 then.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: dseagrav on December 15, 2016, 03:21:05 PM
The plan is to leave master on 2010 and work on the Orbiter2015 branch, that way if something comes up on 2010 we can patch it without changing anything. We won't replace master with Orbiter2015 until we're releasing V8. This keeps master on the last released version and development in branches.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: indy91 on December 15, 2016, 04:22:57 PM
Yes, that makes sense. Do you want to do the release candidate transition and then later merging the current progress into the Orbiter2015 release? I'm not very good with merge conflicts. For 7.0 I'm just waiting a few days if someone discovers a really bad problem and I will also finish some MCC testing I still wanted to do. Then I'm happy with leaving the Beta phase.


Title: Re: Steps before Apollo 7
Post by: mikaelanderlund on December 16, 2016, 04:20:31 AM
Great news! I'm really looking forward to the release candidate. A great Christmas gift  :)

/Mikael