Meadville Space Center

Project Apollo - NASSP => Programming => Topic started by: NoName on January 05, 2006, 12:23:18 AM



Title: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on January 05, 2006, 12:23:18 AM
The progress of implementing all switches, thumbs and rotaries on the left & right hand side panels has stoped now, because it has reached the 100% line :D ALL switches and other clickables on the left & right panels are working now. It's great to see and hear all the things working. So, take a cup of coffee (or whatever ;) ), sit down, do a CVS update, install the latest dll's and enjoy the panels :D 

There is only one thumbwheel left on the lower guidance panel because we need a thumbwheel class which can be turned continuously. I'll do the rest of the missing switches of the csm main panel on friday.

Tell me if everything is alright of the left & right panels...


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: dseagrav on January 05, 2006, 06:45:41 AM
After a CVS update and recompile, the Apollo stack doesn't load anymore. The scenario loads, but the ship isn't there. Did you conflict with the file cleanup mentioned in the planning forum? (Or forget to commit something?)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Christophe on January 05, 2006, 06:50:21 AM
Same thing for me :(


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 05, 2006, 07:24:13 AM
Yes (and the "flying crawler" probably, too), now you need to build new modules or you have to wait until next beta modules release. I'll try to hurry and do new modules the next days!

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Coussini on January 05, 2006, 07:28:15 AM
Quote from: Tschachim
Yes (and the "flying crawler" probably, too), now you need to build new modules or you have to wait until next beta modules release. I'll try to hurry and do new modules the next days!

Cheers
Tschachim


Good news ;)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 05, 2006, 09:13:56 PM
Today I started adding the rest of the missing switches and rotaries of the csm main panel. Not much done yet but the EMS function selector and the GTA switch and it's cover work now. I don't know exactly how the GTA switch cover works but at the moment you can add or remove the cover by clicking on it like on the switch guards ;)

More progress will follow at the weekend...

And thanks a lot for implementing the docking probe and its switch Tschachim :D Things become better and better :)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 05, 2006, 11:22:50 PM
If you did a CVS update of everything, recompiled all the modules, and started a new scenario from the ProjectApollo directory, then it should work fine. Certainly it does here.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 06, 2006, 03:07:35 PM
I finished my work on the CSM main instrument panel number 1 (left hand side) just some minutes ago. I did everything which is possible to do for me. So i've set up the missing switches. Now all switches on panel 1 should work like the document says ^^
 
It would be too much to list what's set up now :D So I'll list the still missing things of panel 1 (from top to bottom) ;) :

EMS panel:
- VELOCITY display
- 0.5G and SPS THRUST lights (bitmaps already available via CVS)
- deltaV/EMS SET thumbwheels
- deltaV/RANGE display

I know it all depends on the function selector and the other two switches.

Pushbuttons (didn't figure out the corresponding code):
- DIRECT ULLAGE
- THRUST ON
- GDC ALLIGN

ATTITUDE SET panel:
- ROLL, PITCH and YAW displays and thumbwheels

LV TANK PRESS indicator:
- all indications
- SPS GIMBAL PITCH and YAW thumbwheels

That's it :) All other stuff should work "so far". In my point of view the CSM main panel still isn't prepared for a release version becaue of some important missing indications like LV PRESS indicators and SPS/RCS tank indicators. The useres won't have any indication about remaining RCS/SPS fuel and pressure :?  

I'll continue with panel 2 tomorrow. Not much to do. It should be comlpetely usable tomorrow but without the RCS/SPS gauges ;)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 06, 2006, 03:36:41 PM
I've made the voltage and current meters work, but they're currently hard-wired to Main Bus A and AC Bus 1. When you add the rotary switches it should be easy to connect them to the correct places.

They really need some damping added though, so they don't jump around instantly as you turn things on and off.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 06, 2006, 04:29:12 PM
You can do them as MeterSwitch subclasses as all the others gauges and meters, it does exactly that damping.  :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 06, 2006, 04:40:43 PM
Ok, I just checked in a quick hack to damp them a bit, you might want to revise it at some point to use the proper class...


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 06, 2006, 05:48:21 PM
GREAT news :D I'll add the rotaries and other switches for the electrics on panel 3 tomorrow too ^^


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 06, 2006, 06:01:19 PM
BTW, you now also lose fuel cell power when you seperate from the SM: which is a bit tricky as there's currently no way to connect up the landing batteries to the bus :).


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 06, 2006, 07:35:52 PM
Then we're going to die after SM separation :lol:


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Christophe on January 06, 2006, 08:51:18 PM
Thanks a lot to all of you developpers for your fantastic job. It's cool to see that NASSP is on the way again :D
I would just point out some others switches still missing and some stranges behaviours:
- PANEL 1:
 SC CONT, CMC MODE, SPS GMBL MOTORS and most of switches on this row are not working (.05G switch too...)
- PANEL 2:
  - I don't understand the new function of CSM/LM SEP. CSM SEP 2 has to leave docking probe in place, hasn't it? Otherwise redocking is not possible. May be I'm wrong and do something not correct... yet I'm glad to see the EXT/RETR switch but there's something I don't understand.
  - RCS is not working when SM RCS He switches are on the OPEN position (with tb gray). I think it's unrealistic. AFAIK Helium builds pressure inside the system and valves have to be open for the RCS working properly. In fact in nominal function, we usually do not see any "barber pole" which indicate an abnormal system status.
- PANEL 8: Since we now have 100% realistic panel, there's is no way to disabled part of the RCS (just the roll for example). On PNL 8 we have RCS QUADS switches clickable now; are they expected to be working in the future?
You can think this request is a bit strange and useless but for example when you want to fly R180 P0 Y0 it's very easy to use default orbiter PG attitude mode and disabling the Roll to keeep the spacecraft headsdown instead of the 90 bank as orbiter does.

Thanks again for the time you give to all of us.
Cheers,
Christophe


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 06, 2006, 10:30:10 PM
I've removed most of the unused switches in the code (left over from the old panel), and done a preliminary wiring of the FDAI power switch: you now need to turn them on before they'll operate.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 06, 2006, 10:30:56 PM
Quote
SC CONT, CMC MODE, SPS GMBL MOTORS and most of switches on this row are not working (.05G switch too...)


They work. You can hear it and seet it :D Just make sure you use the latest dll's. I would suggest to do a CVS update, not using the beta dll's. I did a CVS update and compiled the latest dll's just about 1 minute ago (and I worked on the code too the last hour). All switches of panel 1 working perfect ;)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 06, 2006, 10:36:23 PM
Sounds good movieman :) I just finished my work on CSM main panel 2. All switches and rotaries should work without any probs now :D

Again, still missing things from top to bottom (not much on panel 2 ;) ) :

- SM RCS indicators

HIGH GAIN ANTENNA:

- PITCH, S BAND ANT and YAW INDICATOR

That's all :D

By the way, is it possible in Orbiter to simulate yawing and pitching of the HGA?

Tonight I'm going to finish panel 3 (and all the electrics switches)...


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 07, 2006, 07:28:27 AM
Thanks Moonwalker and Movieman, you are doing a great job! :) :)

Quote from: Christophe
I don't understand the new function of CSM/LM SEP. CSM SEP 2 has to leave docking probe in place, hasn't it?

No, both CSM/LM FINAL SEP 1/2 switches separate the LM from the CSM irreversibly including the docking probe. To use the docking probe to dock and undock reversibly look here: http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=355 I'll add more comprehensive instructions to the checklist soon, and of course please don't hesitate to ask. :)

Quote from: Christophe
RCS is not working when SM RCS He switches are on the OPEN position (with tb gray). I think it's unrealistic.

Yes, the usage of the RCS is not historically correct at all, but for my part it's OK if we fix that after next release. But if someone wants to do it before... :wink:

BTW: Is Microsoft C++ 2005 working for you meanwhile? I think movieman did a lot of changes of the code for that.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Christophe on January 07, 2006, 10:27:59 AM
Quote
BTW: Is Microsoft C++ 2005 working for you meanwhile? I think movieman did a lot of changes of the code for that

No it still doesn't work. Still numbers of errors and warnings.

Thank you for explanation of haw CSM SEP is working.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 07, 2006, 10:29:59 AM
Can you post the current errors? We'll change the code then!

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 07, 2006, 10:54:16 AM
Quote
Yes, the usage of the RCS is not historically correct at all, but for my part it's OK if we fix that after next release. But if someone wants to do it before...


Oh yeah, I very hope so. The RCS and SPS are the most important systems next to the ECS, electricals and DSKY to be simulated! ;)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 07, 2006, 01:24:42 PM
I just committed a few bugfixes of the new features, two questions/remarks:

When the FDAI is turned off, in real Apollo a red "flag-like" OFF indicator was shown at the edge of the FDAI, I don't know if you know what I mean, is it possible to do a bitmap for that?

... and I'm getting main bus undervolt alarms all the time now???  :shock:

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 07, 2006, 01:45:33 PM
I have a suspicion that the heaters are still sucking too much power from the bus. I reduced the power usage of some of the heaters in the config file.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 07, 2006, 05:12:37 PM
Quote
When the FDAI is turned off, in real Apollo a red "flag-like" OFF indicator was shown at the edge of the FDAI, I don't know if you know what I mean, is it possible to do a bitmap for that?


Sure :D In general aviation you'll find the same "off" flags on the ADI's (attitude driection indicators) and also on the ADI's of the space shuttle ;)

I'll do the off flag of course. Great that you want to simulate this ^^

http://www.as.l-3com.com/images/adi332.jpeg


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 08, 2006, 11:21:07 AM
BTW, the main buses are now hard-wired to the batteries after SM seperation. That will do as a workaround until we can wire up the bus switches properly.

One thing I've noticed is that we can release the parachutes in space: I'm not sure whether that was really possibly on a real CM, or whether there was some failsafe which prevented it (since, otherwise, pressing one switch would be lethal for the crew)...


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Christophe on January 08, 2006, 11:23:30 AM
Quote from: Tschachim
Can you post the current errors? We'll change the code then!

Cheers
Tschachim


Hi Tschachim. sorry to come back again with that trouble. I'm afraid I bother all of you with my visual 2005 IDE. But as you asked for me, I would be very pleased to post the output log when trying to compile Panel SDK Project.
But even that I'm unable to do it!
Here is the message I have coming from the forum:
Quote
Precondition Failed
The precondition on the request for the URL /mscorbit/phpBB2/posting.php evaluated to false.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apache/1.3.33 Server at www.ibiblio.org Port 80


it seems that it doesn accept the post ! :twisted:
Informatic is being to make me crazy :evil:  :evil:


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 08, 2006, 12:29:03 PM
Great Movieman :D I finished my programming work on panel 3, and on the whole main panel :D I only have to do some small bitmaps now (like FDAI off flag, missing window covers etc.). There are exactly 10 switches on panel 3 which I didn't set up because they are talkback indicator related and I (god damn :? ) didn't figure out the corresponding code. So I don't want to do a mistake an decided to leave the 10 talback related switches to you guys. You'll need to set them up when programming the functions for it. I'll list the switches below.

Missing things on panel 3 again from top to bottom:

- SPS PRPLNT TANK indicators
- SPS ENGINE INJECTOR VALVES indicator (bitmaps already available via CVS)

- SPS OXID & FUEL display (bitmaps already available via CVS)
- SPS OXID UNBAL gauge
- SPS OXID FLOW VALVE MIN/MAX talkbacks (bitmaps already available via CVS)

The still missing switches (10):

- FUEL CELL MAIN BUS A & B switches and talkbacks (6 switches, 6 talkbacks) and its two reset switches because you may want to put them in the same "
Code:
...SwitchRow
".

- SPS He VLV switches and talkbacks (2 switches, 2 talkbacks)

Also the PWR AMPL and TAPE MOTION talkbacks are missing (don't know the corresponding code as you know)

That's all. All other switches, thumbs and rotries should work :)

I'll add the two telescope and periscope views too and do the cabin press panel the next days ;)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 08, 2006, 12:34:52 PM
Quote
One thing I've noticed is that we can release the parachutes in space: I'm not sure whether that was really possibly on a real CM, or whether there was some failsafe which prevented it (since, otherwise, pressing one switch would be lethal for the crew)...


:lol: Yeah shouldn't be possible to open the shutes in space. Some functions have to be fixed and added (manual les tower jett etc.)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 08, 2006, 12:50:56 PM
Electrical meter rotary switches are wired up, other than the battery charger (which doesn't exist yet).


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 08, 2006, 01:14:46 PM
Quote from: Moonwalker
Some functions have to be fixed and added (manual les tower jett etc.)

Manual tower jettison should already work like this: Switch both TWR JETT switches to off before launch, then the tower is not jettisoned until you switch one of them to up position (spring-loaded). I hope this is correct?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 08, 2006, 02:05:24 PM
I've wired up the AC bus switches, but it's all a bit of a hack at the moment. We really need to revise the AC bus simulation in the Panel SDK to simulate the invertors properly.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 08, 2006, 03:18:43 PM
Quote
Manual tower jettison should already work like this: Switch both TWR JETT switches to off before launch, then the tower is not jettisoned until you switch one of them to up position (spring-loaded). I hope this is correct?


I think it's correct. Sorry, I didn't know that it's already working :D I'll test it soon...


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 08, 2006, 04:15:50 PM
At the moment you can jettison the LET early, but otherwise it will jettison at the pre-programmed time during the SII burn.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 08, 2006, 04:44:11 PM
I've added the first version of the inverter code: you'll need to update the config files too.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: gimp1992 on January 08, 2006, 05:25:57 PM
According to the Apollo 15 Launch checklist at "3:19 into the flight both tower jett  switches go to the up position".


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Christophe on January 08, 2006, 06:30:00 PM
I don't understand why you absolutely want to switch TWR JETT - OFF during prelaunch. :!:  :?:   :shock:
According to documentation, both TWR JETT switches are on AUTO position that seems perfectly logic. After the automated jettison during the launch, as gimp 1992 pointed out, switches are turned to ON to be in accordance with the system status.
According to abort procedure (Apollo 15 CK list, page 4-2) the "OFF" position is used only if both automatic and manual jettison has failed. In this case the procedure is to continue to orbit with the LET still attached. Don't know what they are expected to do after... :roll:

Hey Tschachim, I tried to undock reversably by extending the docking probe and it doesn't work. to your opinion, both CSM/LM SEP switch are unreversable. Are you really sure of that? It's a pain to find any documentation about that.

Thanks for your job, Movieman & moonwalker :)

Cheers


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: dseagrav on January 08, 2006, 07:31:22 PM
Quote from: Christophe
I don't understand why you absolutely want to switch TWR JETT - OFF during prelaunch. :!:  :?:  


This is the late 60s. Trust nothing automatic! Are you willing to bet your life that the automatic system won't screw up?


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 08, 2006, 08:40:56 PM
Quote
According to the Apollo 15 Launch checklist at "3:19 into the flight both tower jett switches go to the up position".


That's correct. I checked it. The apollo 16 checklist says "down" before launch and "up" at 03:18 into the flight. Shouldn't be a problem to let it work correctly ;)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 09, 2006, 06:10:06 AM
Hi Christophe,

Quote
But as you asked for me, I would be very pleased to post the output log when trying to compile Panel SDK Project. But even that I'm unable to do it!

Huh, I fear I don't know what the problem is, perhaps the post is too long? Some of the Mars Direct guys seem to have similar problems, can you mail me the log?

Quote from: Christophe
I don't understand why you absolutely want to switch TWR JETT - OFF during prelaunch. :!:  :?: :shock:

Sorry, I didn't explain it very well: Of course both TWR JETT switches are on AUTO by default and aren't changed until tower jettision as stated in the checklist here: http://nassp.sf.net/user/checklist-standard.html

But if you want to play around with it and do it manually (and explicitly not as stated in the checklist), you can switch them to OFF to prevent automatic tower jettision and do it manually by switching to ON at the moment you want to jettision. I hope this is more clearly now. :)

Quote
Hey Tschachim, I tried to undock reversably by extending the docking probe and it doesn't work.

Can you describe the problem more detailled? And please make sure you start over with a launch scenario because the docking probe is disabled by default and is enabled during launch.

Quote
to your opinion, both CSM/LM SEP switch are unreversable. Are you really sure of that? It's a pain to find any documentation about that.

Yes, I'm sure: http://history.nasa.gov/afj/aohindex.htm, Controls and Displays (37.1 MB), page 3-97 :wink:

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 09, 2006, 08:25:57 AM
We should really decide exactly what we need to wire up in order to do a 7.0 release. The missing main bus switches are some of the most important, I'm not sure what else we need other than that.

For the LEM, I'd be happy for now if the most important switches were wired up and the rest just clicked and did nothing: we can add more for the next version.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 09, 2006, 10:06:52 AM
For the EPS it looks like it's too much work to get it like the real thing until next release. I'd be happy for now if the EPS is in a kind of "stable and consistent" state...

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 09, 2006, 07:36:08 PM
I'll start to set up the switches of the LEM panels the next days. At first I'd like to try to do the cabin press panel for the CSM and add a clickable area on the upper or lower left corner of the hatch window view to enable the CSM EVA ;)

For the next release I think we'll need some more time to set up the lem panels. But I would like to suggest to implement the FDAI's too to the LEM panels and maybe let work some gauges like thrust indicator and altimeter if it would be possible until the next release. And maybe the required RCS and SPS helium tank press and indicators would be great too. But of course if you want to do it after the 7.0 release it's no problem. But I think realistical RCS and SPS controls and inidcations are very important. Otherwiese this could be done after the 7.0 release of course.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 10, 2006, 06:52:47 AM
The CSM cabin press panels would be really great, we can do the ECS a lot more realistically then. :) :)
Which panels (panel numbers) do you plan to do? I just ask to be prepared and I would like to take a look at the controls on these panels.

... and the 3 AC BUS 1 switches, the 3 AC BUS 2 switches and the AC INV 1/2 switches are buggy: When they are switched down and I click "down" (at the lower part of the switch) they change to up position and vice versa??? Looks like they use the wrong class?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 10, 2006, 09:32:32 AM
They're defined as circuit breakers: I presume that both up and down clicks are changing the state. We'd just need a 'ToggleSwitch circuit breaker' class, which won't be hard to do.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 10, 2006, 09:42:34 AM
Quote
Which panels (panel numbers) do you plan to do?


I think for cabin press/depress we'll need panels 325 & 326. I already started and it looks good :D But I don't know the movement of the two levers. Maybe you can find some documentation of usage of panel 325.
Panels will be ready soon (6 knobs and 3 levers only).


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 10, 2006, 02:41:52 PM
Think I've fixed the AC bus switches. I also added the ELS switches, which seem to be what prevents you from manually deploying the parachutes in orbit.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 10, 2006, 03:24:58 PM
Also added the basics of the CM RCS dump and purge. You don't want to do a dump in orbit as you'll roll out of control :).

Incidentally, I've noticed that we have far less RCS thrusters than there are spots for on the CM... there are quite a few more we should add for full realism.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 10, 2006, 04:10:28 PM
Also updated the AoA/thrust meter to vaguely match the correct operation (there's no documentation I can find on what it shows in AoA mode, so I've just made it AoA in degrees x 10).


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 10, 2006, 04:47:08 PM
BTW, I've been looking through documentation for the tower jettison and I still can't figure out whether it's meant to be jettisoned automatically or manually. The Apollo operations handbook implies that they reset the event timer when the SII stage sep light comes on, and then manually seperate it with the switches, but I'm not convinced yet :).


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 10, 2006, 06:21:36 PM
SM RCS is now enabled per quad, and you need to open the helium valves rather than close them. I guess we should set the default state to helium valves closed now?


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 10, 2006, 06:46:34 PM
And revised RCS ISP and thrust to historical values. This makes maneuvering somewhat more complicated, as you burn through the RCS fuel pretty fast when docking with the LEM...


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 10, 2006, 09:16:48 PM
RCS propellant quantity gauge is now working.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 10, 2006, 10:00:43 PM
The RCS valve talkbacks now directly check the valve state. Previously you could 'open and close' the SM valves even after you seperated from the SM... now they're permanently barberpoled after SM sep.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 10, 2006, 10:12:03 PM
Yeah Baby :D Phantastic that you work on the RCS stuff movieman! I hope to finish the left hand side cabin press panel tomorrow (should be available from the left panel by pressing CTRL + ARROW LEFT) and add the rest of my CSM stuff to CVS: missing window covers for LES simulation, FDAI off flags, more positions of the direct o2 knob and some small corrections of some graphics. So I think I can start with the LEM panels very soon ^^  

Quote
SM RCS is now enabled per quad, and you need to open the helium valves rather than close them. I guess we should set the default state to helium valves closed now?


Great :D :D :D

Mhhh, I don't know what the documentation says. But the launch checklist says SM RCS HE switches 1 & 2 center (on, up*) and its talkbacks gray. The same for the propellant switches.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 11, 2006, 06:15:07 AM
BTW, I think we should delete the VAB, Crawler and tower when we get into orbit: anyone have an objection to that? You won't legitimately see them again at that point, so it seems like we're just wasting memory and CPU cycles processing them.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 11, 2006, 06:47:31 AM
Hi Movieman and Moonwalker,

you were very industrious, thanks a lot! :)

Quote from: Moonwalker
I think for cabin press/depress we'll need panels 325 & 326. I already started and it looks good. But I don't know the movement of the two levers.

That's great, the panels have some very cool ECS controls. :) :) I also don't know the movement of the levers, I'll try to figure it out.

Quote from: Movieman
BTW, I've been looking through documentation for the tower jettison and I still can't figure out whether it's meant to be jettisoned automatically or manually. The Apollo operations handbook implies that they reset the event timer when the SII stage sep light comes on, and then manually seperate it with the switches, but I'm not convinced yet.

Thanks for pointing that out! I think the Apollo operations handbook is right, I took another look at the description of the tower jettison switches in the AOH display and control reference and it looks like AUTO means only automatic jettison is case of an abort, not for normal jettison. If you also think so, we should change the code because of this...

... and where did you read they reset the event timer? I can't find it in the AOH :oops:

Quote from: Movieman
SM RCS is now enabled per quad, and you need to open the helium valves rather than close them. I guess we should set the default state to helium valves closed now?

Quote from: Moonwalker
Mhhh, I don't know what the documentation says. But the launch checklist says SM RCS HE switches 1 & 2 center (on, up*) and its talkbacks gray. The same for the propellant switches.

For me it looks like you are both right. :wink: If I read it correctly, all RCS valves are closed by default, the RCS is disabled. But they enabled it already before launch, so at launch the valves are open because the SM RCS is already activated.

Quote from: Movieman
BTW, I think we should delete the VAB, Crawler and tower when we get into orbit: anyone have an objection to that?

No problem, very good idea! :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Apassi on January 11, 2006, 08:26:05 AM
Hi Tschachim and Moonwalker
In case you didn`t find the movement of levers and workings, you will find it in Apollo operations handbook and there controls and displays section starting page 267 (acrobate count) LHEB 325 & 326.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 11, 2006, 08:37:08 AM
Quote
and where did you read they reset the event timer? I can't find it in the AOH


If I remember correctly it's in the part with the LET diagrams. 'Sequential events' or something like that.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 11, 2006, 11:27:14 AM
aoh-v1-2-09-seqsys.pdf page 31 implies that those switches are the only way to jettison the LET. The pushbutton fires the escape tower main motor if the seperation motor fails to fire, but it still has to be seperated first using the switches.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 11, 2006, 12:07:48 PM
Yes, you're right, thanks for the reference. Just to have the informations complete here the relevant part in the control and display reference:

(http://nassp.sf.net/images/temp/AOH-TwrJettSwitches.jpg)

So it looks like we have to jettison the tower manually! Do you want to do the necessary changes in the code?

But I'm still not sure if the event timer was reset at that time during normal flight. The AOH sequencial systems says: "Utilization of the event timer in conjunction with the visual light cue [i.e. the S-II SEP light] will enable the crew to jettision the LET at the correct time."

I'm not sure but it looks like they used the event timer to read the time and compared it with the checklist, but didn't wait until it was reset to zero?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 11, 2006, 12:25:15 PM
Problem is, it's a massive change because there's no support at all for having the LET attached after SII seperation. Really we need to replace all the SetStage() functions with one single function which takes a structure with a bunch of flags about the current state and sets up the meshes appropriately... as I said in the other thread in Planning, that's probably something for 7.1.

Also, you can do exciting stuff like firing the LES motor without seperating it from the CM or the CM from the SM :).

As for the Event Timer, it seems logical that they'd zero it at SII seperation to determine when to jettison: otherwise they could just use the mission timer.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: retro on January 11, 2006, 12:44:58 PM
As with most Apollo systems, the crew could manually command the LES jettison if the automatic system failed]

AP 16 was auto   also ap 17 was in auto tower jet !

mode 2 auto or manual select

I am asking somebody that worked at nasa for the entire apollo project
if he dont know he knows someone that will,as soon as i hear from him
ill let you know !


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 11, 2006, 12:58:45 PM
Quote from: movieman
Problem is, it's a massive change because there's no support at all for having the LET attached after SII seperation. Really we need to replace all the SetStage() functions with one single function which takes a structure with a bunch of flags about the current state and sets up the meshes appropriately... as I said in the other thread in Planning, that's probably something for 7.1.

Yes, I also can't do such a big change at the moment, so we'll wait...

Quote from: movieman
Also, you can do exciting stuff like firing the LES motor without seperating it from the CM or the CM from the SM :).

It would be great if we can do things like that! :D :D

Quote from: movieman
As for the Event Timer, it seems logical that they'd zero it at SII seperation to determine when to jettison: otherwise they could just use the mission timer.

Hmm, but there's also nothing in all launch checklists I know about an event timer reset during normal flight (but all say you have to switch the tower jettison switch to up). All say it's reset only in case of an abort...

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Christophe on January 12, 2006, 08:46:09 AM
Quote from: movieman
aoh-v1-2-09-seqsys.pdf page 31 implies that those switches are the only way to jettison the LET. The pushbutton fires the escape tower main motor if the seperation motor fails to fire, but it still has to be seperated first using the switches.


Hi Movieman and Tschachim!
I'studied the doc you mentionned and you're perfectly right and I was wrong! I was surprised to discover that the LET was jettisonned manually but documents are incontestable.
Sorry to be so narrow-minded :oops:
Quote
Problem is, it's a massive change because there's no support at all for having the LET attached after SII seperation. Really we need to replace all the SetStage() functions with one single function which takes a structure with a bunch of flags about the current state and sets up the meshes appropriately... as I said in the other thread in Planning, that's probably something for 7.1.

I've just had an idea for an intermediate and temporary solution which is maybe simple and easier to do:
This morning I launched a launch scenario to try to jettison the tower manually. So, just after the SII ignition I switched the 2 buttons on UP position but nothing happened... I waited a few minutes for the automatic jettison and ... the LET stayed in place: My switches were still on OFF position, so I switched back to AUTO, and then the LET immediately fired and separated automatically.
That gave me an idea :idea:
Would it be possible just to invert the switch positions?
I mean that we let the switches on AUTO for launch like Checklist says but if the AUTO position is actually wired to OFF for the internal system and the OFF position wired to AUTO, when time has come to switch to the UP position the system understands in fact "AUTO" and then the LET jettisons automatically but looks like the system is working manually.
I hope you understand me because I'm not sure to be clear...
In fact, with this feature we only lost the ability of an automatic jettison following an abort, because the switches in virtual AUTO position would actually be in OFF. But, according to the Apollo 15 Check list, during any abort mode using the LES (1A, 1B and 1C) it is asked to the astronaut to take the TWR JETT switches on UP position, probably for redundance. So if we follow this procedure we keep the ability of a tower jettison which is in fact the most important. And everybody knows that critical launch failure are very rare in NASSP (for the moment :wink: )

Would it be difficult to do such a release?
You know I'm the worst informatician of the world (in fact not an informatician at all), so it's far beyond my skill to do that work!
I even don't know if it's possible?
If not, no matter, we can let this feature in its state for the moment. After all, compare to the entire flight, LET jettison is just a small detail...

It was just a suggestion, an idea...

Cheers...


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 12, 2006, 11:24:40 PM
The csm instrument panel for cabin pressurization control is completely finished now ^^ Tomorrow I'm going to implement it and finish my work on the csm panels :D

You'll be able to enter panel 325/326 by using CTRL + ARROW LEFT when you are in left csm panel view ;)

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/752376/b63.jpg)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: mikaelanderlund on January 13, 2006, 04:43:00 AM
Thanks a lot to all of you developpers for your fantastic job. It's nice to see that we are coming more near release of 7.0.

Mikael


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 13, 2006, 06:04:59 AM
Hi Moonwalker, this looks great, thanks again!  :)

Hi Christophe,
I think something like you suggested would be possible, but a very "hacky" solution: As Movieman pointed out tower jettison is internally handled like staging, so you can manually jettision the tower only after interstage separation (this is why you failed to do it directly after the SII ignition) and if you do no tower jettision at all (switch both switches to off (center)) it will vanish nevertheless after SII/SIVB staging. So I think Movieman is right, we need to change the complete state handing for that, otherwise most users will probably fly the SII stage completely with tower and think it's intended that it disappears at SII/SIVB staging...

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 13, 2006, 07:56:08 PM
There's now a hacky implementation of the sequential systems logic switches and pyro arm switches. You'll need to turn pyro arm on to seperate from the SIVb and so forth, and sequential systems too for re-entry.

In some cases if you click the switch to seperate and then enable the pyros they'll blow immediately: the seperation code really needs rewriting.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 13, 2006, 11:18:14 PM
Quote
There's now a hacky implementation of the sequential systems logic switches and pyro arm switches.


Great :D I'll do a CVS update in some minutes and try it out..



By the way, Tschachim,

I couldn't find any photo or drawing which shows the "off" flag of the FDAI's :? Do you have a photo or drawing of it?


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 14, 2006, 07:49:53 AM
Well, I commited the new instrument panel (325/326). Only the two cabin pressure relief levers are missing. I think we need a new switch class for them.

I also updated some panel graphics. And all LES window covers are commited too. Now it should be possible to simulate the LES "visible" when you look through the corresponding windows. I don't know how to do it. Maybe the LES window bitmaps could be implemented as switches which change to off after LES sep or so...

I desined the following window covers:

- left & right windows
- right rndz window (large view)
- right rndz window for the main panel

Now we need a new LES mesh too because the current mesh has absolutely no window. We need a mesh which shows the left rndz window and the side hatch window ;)

Only the off flag is still missing. All other stuff for the csm instrument panels should be done so far. If not, tell me ;)

I'll start with the LEM panels tomorrow... :D


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 14, 2006, 07:55:53 AM
Oh, Tschachim, I forgot to say that the direct O2 knob on panel 7 now has 4 positions ;)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 14, 2006, 01:58:21 PM
I've added a basic pyro simulation and the first vestiges of sequential events controller simulation. It's only wired up for CM/SM seperation at the moment.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 14, 2006, 02:53:31 PM
Great :)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 14, 2006, 05:01:59 PM
The Panel SDK is now wired into the LEM, in preparation for working control panels... the config file only includes the batteries so far.

I'm pretty much going to stop working on the CSM now until we have a 7.0 release and just help get the LEM into working order.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 14, 2006, 05:29:22 PM
By the way: Do you plan to do the fuel cell/dc bus connection switches before?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 14, 2006, 05:46:52 PM
Good point, those are about the last things that really need to be wired up to make it work usefully.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 14, 2006, 07:30:05 PM
Yeah, it would be great to have these switches together with the FC/bus connections working.  :)

I wanted to do transposition and docking with the latest code, but I had a strange problem: With RCS in translational mode also the attitude of the spacecraft changed, rotational mode seemed to be fine. But I wasn't able to dock, did I miss new switches or did I find a new bug? :wink:

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 14, 2006, 07:39:47 PM
Are you using an old scenario? Any scenario after seperating from the SIVB will be screwed as there are now four RCS tanks rather than one. You either need to go back to an earlier scenario or update the propellant levels in the scenario.

One thing I've noticed is that Orbiter can't manage to put the CSM into prograde or retrograde mode with the new realistic thrusters: we probably need to have the RCS thrust vary based on the REALISM level so it's easier to control.

In fact, I'll put that hack in now.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 14, 2006, 07:59:46 PM
Actually, you're right, there is something very odd going on with the thrusters. The correct ones seem to be firing, so I'm not sure how they could be out of balance.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 14, 2006, 08:26:04 PM
Ok, I think I found the problem.

The original code had 'phantom' thrusters in addition to the sixteen real thrusters. I took those out, which didn't affect rotation, but seems to cause the CSM to rotate when they're used for translation... I'm not sure why, but I'm guessing that they're an attempt to compensate for the thrusters not being aligned with the center of mass of the CSM.

For now I've put them back in, but we should really figure out why the real thruster locations don't work correctly. My guess is that the center of mass is  too far forwards, or the thrusters aren't in the correct locations.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 14, 2006, 09:47:44 PM
Ok, try the version I just checked in. I've moved the CoG and removed the phantom thrusters and it seems to be fine.

I'm also now deleting the VAB, Crawler and Mobile launcher when we get a reasonable distance from the launch site. You can configure that per-vessel with the DLS option in the scenario file (1 to enable, 0 to disable) if you want to do some future mission with multiple launches.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 15, 2006, 09:25:53 AM
Just docked with the LM, works fine for me! Thanks a lot for fixing that, especially the Virtual AGC would have had problems with these phantom thrusters and now it's just perfect!  :D  :D

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 15, 2006, 11:18:29 AM
BTW: It looks like that according to the checklists the SECS LOGIC has to be turned on for CSM/LV separation and SIVB/LM separation, too, but I don't know how these systems work internally...

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on January 15, 2006, 11:28:42 AM
Probably... they all get their power from the pyro batteries in the CM.


Title: instrument panels
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on January 17, 2006, 07:11:27 PM
Hi!,

I'm very impressed with the progress on the CSM instrument panels which Moonwalker is working on!!! :lol:  :lol: I wanted to ask you, how is Moonwalker doing with the LEM instrument panels?? :lol:


Title: Re: instrument panels
Post by: Coussini on January 18, 2006, 07:14:56 AM
Quote from: Vincent Majerowicz
Hi again,

I'm sorry for asking 4 questions after the first question about the instrument panels, my connection is slow sometimes.


You can delete using the little x in the right corner near your post ;)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 18, 2006, 01:37:19 PM
Quote
I wanted to ask you, how is Moonwalker doing with the LEM instrument panels??


I started to wire up the first few things on the LEM main panel just some minutes ago. I know, my intention was to start with the LEM panels last sunday but I had to do a lot of work in my private life the last 3 days. So I'm sorry for the little delay. But progress started some minutes ago. I think I'll be able to A LOT on the LEM panels this week :D


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 18, 2006, 02:20:48 PM
Just to let you all know, I start with LEM main panel 1, from top to bottom. Then panel 2 and so on... But there are som things I can't wire up yet, like digital propulsion system readouts, talkbacks... becaue they require new code and simulation of RCS and helium tanks and so on... I'll set up the most switches and rotaries. And of course the circuit breaker panels (left & right hand side) :)

I'm thinking of adding a new panel just below the main panel. A panel which shows the LEM hatch. To start the lunar EVA after the required switches and the ECS is prepared you just have to click on the hatch and it should open and your EVA starts. Would be nice to look through the hatch down to the lunar surface ;)

The same for the CSM. I think we use the left cabin press panels to lower the cabin pressure and just clicking on the hatch window of the csm to start the CSM EVA ;)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: gimp1992 on January 18, 2006, 03:07:29 PM
Moonwlker tht sounds like a great idea. You  click to open the hatch then click on the outside of the hatch to do the EVA.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 18, 2006, 03:33:50 PM
Hope it's possible to do so...


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on January 25, 2006, 05:04:25 PM
Quote from: Moonwalker
By the way, Tschachim,

I couldn't find any photo or drawing which shows the "off" flag of the FDAI's :? Do you have a photo or drawing of it?

Sorry, I didn't see your post at first  :oops:, I have one showing the LM FDAI:

 (http://nassp.sf.net/images/temp/FDAIOff.jpg)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on January 27, 2006, 06:45:20 AM
Oh, no problem Tschachim ;) Thanks :)


Title: CSM instrument panels progress
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on January 27, 2006, 07:29:30 PM
Hi!,

How is the CSM instrument panel coming along, and how much work left in the CSM instrument panel before NASSP 7 release? :lol:  :lol:


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on February 01, 2006, 01:49:31 PM
Hi Moonwalker,

the FDAI Off flag is in and working, thanks! :)

Hi Vincent,

the panel is coming along nicely, but it's still some work left (cabin pressure regulation, EVA, splashdown etc.).

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on February 14, 2006, 10:36:03 AM
Hi Moonwalker,

as a "side effect" of the recent Virtual AGC developments I did the ISS C/W light, only working in Virtual AGC mode, of course. :wink:
But I had to change csm_main_panel.bmp and added the unlit ISS light, so I would be glad if you can consider that the next time you update it. :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Radu094 on February 17, 2006, 03:07:11 AM
Hi !
I've sunken my head to build some switches for the LM and I got a couple of questions...

All the defined PanelAreas are setup to use PANEL_REDRAW_ALWAYS. I don't understand 100% how the code path works in SaturnV and LMPKD classes.. but rendering each switch and rotary each frame seems unecessary.I would change some of them to PANEL_REDRAW_MOUSE unless there is a reason not to?

Second,if I understood corectly, on each panel change ( clbkLoadPanel ) the following happens:
all surfaces are discarded, all surfaces are loaded again, all instruments are re-defined(and I mean ALL for all panels, regardless of which panel is loaded).
I know this is how DeltaGlider is implemented, but if we are using the same resources on all panels, it's totally redundant to Destroy/Create on each panel change (I'm a frantic panel-switcher going from one panel to another). Again, I'd like to move that to InitPanel() unless someone has a reason not to ?

Sorry, I still feel like a newbie here so I feel the need to ask arround...


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on February 17, 2006, 06:50:07 AM
Quote from: Radu094
All the defined PanelAreas are setup to use PANEL_REDRAW_ALWAYS. I don't understand 100% how the code path works in SaturnV and LMPKD classes.. but rendering each switch and rotary each frame seems unecessary.I would change some of them to PANEL_REDRAW_MOUSE unless there is a reason not to?

There is a reason: Switches can change because of automatic checklist actions in quickstart mode, gauges, talkbacks etc. change without being clicked anyway.

Quote from: Radu094
Second,if I understood corectly, on each panel change ( clbkLoadPanel ) the following happens:
all surfaces are discarded, all surfaces are loaded again, all instruments are re-defined(and I mean ALL for all panels, regardless of which panel is loaded).
I know this is how DeltaGlider is implemented, but if we are using the same resources on all panels, it's totally redundant to Destroy/Create on each panel change (I'm a frantic panel-switcher going from one panel to another). Again, I'd like to move that to InitPanel() unless someone has a reason not to ?

The surfaces ARE created in InitPanel, which is called during clbkLoadPanel, you probably mean you want to define the surfaces in InitSwitches, which is called only once during construction. I don't know if this is "too early" to create surfaces and if a change like this would work, but you can try...

And yes, all switches are initialized in SetSwitches, even if they are only  on invisible panels, otherwise there would be problems related to the current "event implementation" for instance.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on February 18, 2006, 05:10:53 PM
Hi Moonwalker,

I also fixed the bugs mentioned here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=409

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Quetalsi on February 21, 2006, 07:18:06 PM
Hello to all, since opening I have corrected an error switch so that it works as they indicate these images.  I hope that everything goes well since is my first contribution.

They are two small changes that better explain with these imagenes:

1.- The upper position is momentary
(http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/3843/dibujo2lx.png)

2.- When RESET then stop counting
(http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/2750/dibujo21nd.png)

 :oops: Sorry by as much explanation for a so small change. :wink:

Greetings
Quetalsi


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on February 22, 2006, 04:03:20 PM
Your fix works very well, thanks a lot. :)

Quote from: Quetalsi
:oops: Sorry by as much explanation for a so small change. :wink:

Not at all! It's a very good explanation, but moreover it's a documentation and reference that you're right with the switch. :wink: By the way: What is the source of the first image? Systems handbook?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Quetalsi on February 22, 2006, 04:40:17 PM
:) Yes, the source of the first image is Systems handbook.

This afternoon I have made some changes:

1. - the AC BUS 1 and 2 RESET SWITCH in his upper possition are momentary and control the lights related to the ACBus.

2.- The C&W AC BUS 1 and 2 lights now on if any phase has less than 96 volts and respective reset switch is center, and this lights only can off if the respective reset switch is in up or down possition.

I hope to have explained  :?: or, if not thus please to ask or to correct what they want.

Greetings
Quetalsi


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on February 23, 2006, 07:48:57 AM
It works as you explained, but I'm not sure if this is completely correct. Reading Apollo Operations Handbook 2.6.3.4 it looks like the control circuit controlled by the reset switch also disconnects inverter from the AC bus in case of an undervolt and the reset position fixes that. So the up and down position of the switch doesn't do exactly the same?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Quetalsi on February 23, 2006, 09:40:32 AM
Hi Tschachim,

as the superior and inferior position can be seen in the following image is not connected, soon have the same effect I think.  The central position feeds over-undervoltage and overload sensing unit (not absolutely simulated so far).

(http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/7531/dibujo30uo.png)


The following image shows what each position does of the switch.  That everything is not simulated but we are approaching.

(http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/9930/dibujo48vb.png)

Plese if I am mistaken tell me to correct what is necessary.

Greetings
Quetalsi


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on February 23, 2006, 11:46:01 AM
Quote from: Quetalsi
That everything is not simulated but we are approaching.

That's what I meant, the C/W stuff looks fine, but that "reconnecting if it had been tripped out" (and the tripping out) seems to be missing.

Anyway, it's getting better and better, I think you should just go ahead and keep up the good work! ... and again thanks for posting the operations and systems handbook screenshots!

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Quetalsi on February 23, 2006, 06:02:33 PM
Hi, I updated CVS with this changes:

1.- The C&W system now also control overvoltage ( ac > 130 volts).

2.- The lights AC BUS 1/2 and AC BUS 1/2 OVERLOAD turn on and inverter is disconnected like it indicates systems handbook

(http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/9075/dibujo59yz.png)

Voltages does not change and to prove this it is necessary to change, for example the voltage of inverter to see as it works.

Greetings
Quetalsi


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on February 27, 2006, 09:56:08 AM
Looks like I requested a pretty useless feature because we never have overvoltage. Sorry, at first I thought the inverter gets disconnected by undervoltage, too. But anyway thanks for fixing, the EPS gets better and better! :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Quetalsi on February 27, 2006, 07:21:57 PM
Hello,

CVS updated with changes:

1.- DC Main Bus A & B Switches and respectives talkbacks now woks.

2.- Thats switches are wired, so the three fuelcells are connected to dcbus.

Tomorrow Ill update the CWS system to work with the RESET switches.

 :oops: One problem. When only one fuelcell are connected to the system, the master alarm light on with no light in the CWS panel. It seems to be related with the IMU. It is a problem to study. :shock:

Greetings
Quetalsi


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Swatch on February 28, 2006, 12:56:28 AM
Hi guys...I know this thread is a little bit off the beaten path for me...but I just wanted to remind you guys about the missing LV TANK PRESS indicators on Panel 1.  These seem kinda important for the next release, and since you've successfully implimented the RCS and SPS guages on Panels 2 and 3, I'd think that they'd be fairly easy to tie in.

Also, I'll start working on a new LES/BPC with windows mesh since I corrected the current one to fit over the CM.

Last but not least, I was wondering what the off-color squares are that are spaced around the main panel.  They almost look like a graphics glitch....or maybe they're supposed to be velco squares, I dont know...but they're buggin me.  :lol:

~Swatch

PS. Does anyone know where I can find a good method to learn how to texture the mesh, since the current mesh has a lot of extra poly's that basically act like 3D, overdone textures.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on February 28, 2006, 10:11:38 AM
Hi Quetalsi,

thanks for beginning with the FC/DC BUS switches, this is an important feature! :)

I noticed that saving/loading is not working yet, the switches and indicators states are fine, but the power distribution is not saved. Just an idea: Perhaps it's easier to use the ThreeSourceSwitch for the fuel cell/bus switches. ...And it looks like the center positions have some "special behavior" related to the C/W system?

Hi Swatch,

Quote from: Swatch
Hi guys...I know this thread is a little bit off the beaten path for me...but I just wanted to remind you guys about the missing LV TANK PRESS indicators on Panel 1.

That's right, we'll do that. Radu is working on a new version of the SPSDK, perhaps we'll wait until this is finished.

Quote
Last but not least, I was wondering what the off-color squares are that are spaced around the main panel.  They almost look like a graphics glitch....or maybe they're supposed to be velco squares, I dont know...but they're buggin me.  :lol:

They are velcro squares, looks like you should get used to them... :wink:

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Quetalsi on February 28, 2006, 12:45:45 PM
Thanks Tschachim, you are right. Im going to review it.

Greetings
Quetalsi.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: FordPrefect on February 28, 2006, 02:50:36 PM
Quote from: Tschachim

They are velcro squares, looks like you should get used to them... :wink:


yeah, and in the far future, I hope we will be able to attach mission dependent checklists to them...  :D

Great stuff guys, keep it going.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Quetalsi on February 28, 2006, 03:55:14 PM
Hi, CVS updated with these changes:

1.- Now saving/loading power distribution work or I hope so. :wink:

2.- Added CWS FC_DISCONNECT. This light is on if one FC are disconnected and its respective one switch is in center position.

Quote
And it looks like the center positions have some "special behavior" related to the C/W system?


3.- Reset dc switches now work like reset ac reset switches.

I hope that all this well. If there is some problem, please tell me.

Greetings
Quetalsi


Title: CSM instrument panel progress
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on March 03, 2006, 12:49:10 AM
Hi!,

I wanted to ask you, how is the CSM instrument panels coming along, is it almost finished or need more work? :lol:


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on March 03, 2006, 06:14:55 AM
I think everything that has to be done on the CSM panel is now done: the most important 20% or so of the switches should work the way they really do.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 04, 2006, 01:00:04 AM
@ Tschachim

Quote
I had to change csm_main_panel.bmp and added the unlit ISS light, so I would be glad if you can consider that the next time you update it.


Of course Tschachim :wink: I also considered the other changes. But you forgot to remove a small "B" on the main panel bmp just above the right side of the CW lights. I think it's because you changed the MAIN BUS A/B lights :lol: But it's no problem, I already removed the "B".

@ Quetalsi

Thanks a lot for your help! Keep going :D Don't hesitate to point to other wrong stuff ;)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on March 04, 2006, 08:35:46 AM
Hi Moonwalker,

it's great to see you! :) :)
Thanks for fixing the main panel, looks like a was a little bit sloppy. :oops:
For me the CVS is working again, so you should be able to commit the new LM panel stuff.

Hi Quetalsi,

thanks for fixing, saving and loading is fine now.

I'm still no expert regarding the electrical stuff, but I think the C/W main bus disconnect light is not correct, the AOH means that the alarm is only triggered in case of an automatic disconnect when the current is greater than 75A or smaller than -4A.

We can simulate overcurrent by switching only one fuel cell to one main bus and supplying both AC busses with that main bus, but the bigger problem is reverse current. I think this happens if you have 2 fuel cells at one bus and shut down one fuel cell. Then the other fuel cell is like a resistor consuming power like the bus itself, but I'm not sure if this "power distribution tree" implementation of the electrical wiring network is capable to simulate that.

Radu mentioned that the new SPSDK can calculate electrical wiring networks much more physically correct, so I'm not sure if we can and/or should fix that?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 04, 2006, 09:10:31 AM
Yeah CVS is working again :) But I have trouble to commit the latest CSM main panel :?


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 04, 2006, 09:38:43 AM
I have trouble to commit the latest CSM main panel:

I'm able to do an update, but I can't set it to "edit". When I try to commit I get a message that someone else has done some changes before and I have to do an update. But after the update I can't set it to edit. That means: I'm not able to commit the latest version. Something bad happened :? :?:    

Any ideas? :(


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 04, 2006, 09:45:01 AM
At the moment CVS works like windows 98 :evil: CVS seems to be down again :roll:


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on March 04, 2006, 11:44:01 AM
Hm, your last commit was at 15:25 (GMT ?) today and there's no edit on the file (and CVS seems to work again), so you should be able to do a CVS Edit now?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 04, 2006, 01:02:47 PM
It works now :D Latest version committed ;)


Title: NASSP 7 vs. NCPP V.1.1
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on March 04, 2006, 04:34:27 PM
Hi!,

I wanted to ask you, what's the difference between NASSP 7 and NCPP V.1.1, and what month will the NASSP 7 will be released?? :lol:  :lol:


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on March 04, 2006, 07:52:40 PM
I think NCPP is long dead. Not sure about a release date, I think it's mostly dependant on Radu's work on the LEM systems... at least I think Radu is working on the LEM systems :).

BTW, I wired up the Auto RCS Select switches to bus A and B, but I can't figure out what they do :). I have a feeling they power the RCS thruster logic in SCS mode, but maybe not...


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: dseagrav on March 04, 2006, 08:04:29 PM
Quote from: movieman
I think NCPP is long dead. Not sure about a release date, I think it's mostly dependant on Radu's work on the LEM systems... at least I think Radu is working on the LEM systems :).

BTW, I wired up the Auto RCS Select switches to bus A and B, but I can't figure out what they do :). I have a feeling they power the RCS thruster logic in SCS mode, but maybe not...


I'm sure I'll run across it shortly - I saw reference to them in the SCS documentation but I'm not that far ahead yet. Right now I'm going back and system-izing the BMAG and GDC and other SCS stuff so they connect to electrical sources and draw electricity properly and all that stuff, I want to get the SCS Controls & Displays system working at least as far as full FDAI functionality before I go to the control parts.

Is any of this SCS stuff portable to the LEM or is that designed differently? I haven't looked at the LEM at all yet.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on March 04, 2006, 08:18:52 PM
Quote from: dseagrav
Right now I'm going back and system-izing the BMAG and GDC and other SCS stuff so they connect to electrical sources and draw electricity properly and all that stuff

Hey, that's great, I almost asked you if you want to do that.  :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Swatch on March 04, 2006, 11:06:42 PM
Hey, FYI I'm working on a Panel 100/101 BMP for you guys...I actually had it about halfway done, but I was dumb and forgot to save it, so when Paint Shop Pro decided to crash on me, there were some very angry words said.  This time I'm saving quite often.  No ETA, but it took me 3 hrs earlier, so I figure it'll take that plus some change this time. I hope that you guys can implement it.

Don't expect it done until Monday evening though...I have a test in Fluid Dynamics to study for.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: dseagrav on March 04, 2006, 11:10:21 PM
Quote from: Swatch
Hey, FYI I'm working on a Panel 100/101 BMP for you guys...

Stupid question, what's on that one?


Title: NCPP V.1.1
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on March 04, 2006, 11:13:36 PM
Hi!, Movieman,

I wanted to ask you, why is NCPP V.1.1 is long dead? I also wanted to tell you that the CSM instrument panel is getting better and better, and I'm glad you guys got the FDAI rate indicators working!! :lol:  :lol:


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 04, 2006, 11:18:56 PM
Quote
Hey, FYI I'm working on a Panel 100/101 BMP for you guys...


Note that Panel 100/101 should have the same style like all the other panels. You also need to do a background for the two panels with a size of 1600x1200.

But I think panel 100/101 doesn't contain important stuff. It only has some lighting controls and urine dump/waste H2O dump which we cant simulate.


Title: LV tank pressure and SPS guages
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on March 04, 2006, 11:21:04 PM
Hi!, again

I forgot to ask you in my last post, when will the LV tank and SPS guages will be working? I thought I'd better ask that because the LV tank pressure gauge and SPS guages are important guages because it tells you much LV pressure and SPS propellant quantity! :lol:


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Swatch on March 04, 2006, 11:21:39 PM
Not a stupid question at all considering how many panels are in the CM

Panel 100:  Well most importantly right now is the G/N Power Switches for Optics and IMU.

Also on there is the Rendevous Transponder Power, Lower Equipment Bay Lighting Controls, and something called Utility with a Power/Off selection switch which I don't recognize.

The only reason I'm gonna put 101 in there is because it's right beside panel 100 and between the Optics panel and panel 100

Panel 101:  Systems Test (?) which is a dail and two rotarys.  Rendevous Transponder Test/Operate Switch.  CM RCS Heater Switch.  And finally (the best)  Waste Dump/Urine Dump Heater Switches.

The main reason I'm doing this is for the IMU power, but it was also to see if I could do panels.  Well...I mostly stole the Graphics from the other panels, so it should look virtually indistinguishable....the only things I'll be guessing on is the background, and then I'll probably just do a cop-out background for the time being)  Good news is that I enjoyed it.....right up to the point when I lost it.  :roll:


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: dseagrav on March 04, 2006, 11:31:26 PM
Quote from: Swatch
and something called Utility with a Power/Off selection switch which I don't recognize.

It's a utility outlet and its power switch - There should be a plug near it, for plugging in stuff like the ORDEAL.
Quote from: Swatch
Systems Test (?) which is a dial and two rotarys.

Using the rotary switches, you select a numreic address, corresponding to a data address in the downlinked telemetry data. The value being downlinked is then shown on the dial. You use this to read miscellaneous information for which there isn't an indicator, like temperatures and pressures and stuff.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Swatch on March 05, 2006, 03:49:17 AM
Ok, so I lied...here ya go.

(http://swatch.homeip.net/left_lower_equip_bay.jpg)

http://swatch.homeip.net/left_lower_equip_bay.bmp


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Swatch on March 05, 2006, 03:56:52 AM
Quote from: Moonwalker

But I think panel 100/101 doesn't contain important stuff. It only has some lighting controls and urine dump/waste H2O dump which we cant simulate.


You're right...some of it is worthless...but earlier in this thread, it had been mentioned because it was where the IMU power switch was.  Well when I found the panel, I saw how small it was and decided to add 101 pretty much as eye candy and filler space.  Although CM RCS Heaters sound important on Apollo 13, and Rendevous Transponder sounds pretty useful too.

Also, I picked it because it seems easy enough to start with...if you have any other panels that need done with more important controls on them, ask and I'll see if I can do them.

One more thing...why don't we simulate Urine dump?  :twisted: It may not have really looked like what it did in Apollo 13 (movie) but imagine peoples fun at seeing yellow particles spew from their spacecraft when the click on the "Urine Dump Switch"  I'd think that adding a particle stream wouldn't be too hard, but I may be wrong.  Anywho....that's just a joke....except the fact that it would be funny.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Christophe on March 05, 2006, 04:55:14 AM
Quote
why don't we simulate Urine dump?


And we may find some device in a "special" shop that could serve as a urine collector we could eventually wire to USB port :lol:
Never tried to urinate in my PC, it would be funny :D  :D  :D but I'm not sure about the manufacturer guarantee :D  :D  :D

Please moderator don't ban me, I'm just joking :wink:

Who's married with a poor cook wife :?:  She could prepare for all the community some spacefood (that seemed to taste very nasty according to some reports) we could pack in plastic bags? :lol:

More seriously, I think urine dump would be a cool feature, especially if that makes a parasitical small deltaV. May be it could be wired up like a small thruster?


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Apassi on March 05, 2006, 09:06:32 AM
I think, we need these panels. They have some important stuff like optics & IMU power.
Besides waste dumping would be fun and add some realism.

And I like panels   :wink:

Apassi


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Swatch on March 05, 2006, 10:50:09 AM
Quote from: Moonwalker
You also need to do a background for the two panels with a size of 1600x1200.


Mine has a size of 1158x1020 because 1158x864 was the size of the hatch window  and 1810x1020 was the dimension of the G/N Optics panel right beside it.  I just took the width of one and the height of the other.  only the main panel appeared to have a dimension above 1600x1200.  I hope this won't be a problem.

Quote from: Christophe
And we may find some device in a "special" shop that could serve as a urine collector we could eventually wire to USB port :lol:
Never tried to urinate in my PC, it would be funny :D  :D  :D but I'm not sure about the manufacturer guarantee :D  :D  :D


LOL :lol:  I think thats one device I WON'T be buying....however I think thats hilarious!


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 05, 2006, 11:34:15 AM
Hope you'll find someone who implements the panel. My plan is to go on with the LEM panels. As I wrote earlier, we'll never be able to simulate all of the CSM panels because development would take more and more time. There's still a lot of other important stuff to simulate on the CSM panels first than urine dump or more additional panels...


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Swatch on March 05, 2006, 12:06:04 PM
Oh yea, I know...it was just a joke about the Urine thing.  And like I said, the only reason I chose this one was becuase it had been mentioned earlier in the thread.

Are there any LM panels that you need done?


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 05, 2006, 12:12:58 PM
Quote
Are there any LM panels that you need done?


No, not at the moment. But thanks for you offer :) All panels are done so far. Now, they need to be coded...


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Apassi on March 05, 2006, 09:50:32 PM
Ok. I know there is lot more important and more complicated things to implement, but urine dump simulation sounded somehow funny.
:roll:

Apassi


Title: New beta modules
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on March 05, 2006, 10:13:59 PM
Hi!,

Is the new beta modules will be released soon? :lol:


Title: Panel 13
Post by: Swatch on March 06, 2006, 03:03:51 PM
Hey Guys...I know that you had already said the CSM panels were done for now...but I ran across panel 13, which has some very important FDAI Functions...figured I'd let you know.  (and ask if you wanted me to put it together for you)

(http://swatch.homeip.net/Panel%2013.JPG)

Most notable are the items dealing with the ORDEAL.  In the thread on FDAI, it was mentioned the issues of how the FDAI handled the different Earth/Lunar transition...this panel makes it appear that this was selected by the flight crew.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: dseagrav on March 06, 2006, 03:13:50 PM
That looks like the ORDEAL itself, which I was under the impression was a seperate portable box that was plugged into the panel somewhere via a wire and drove circuits in the Electronic Display Assembly. Can someone look up the ORDEAL and see how and where it plugged in? I'm busy building up notes for the SCS and don't want to "switch gears" right this second.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Swatch on March 06, 2006, 04:39:09 PM
OK...it appears that there are two different things involved here...

On one had we have the ORDEAL itself as described in the Apollo Handbook Glossery

Quote
ORDEAL
Orbital Rate Display Earth And Lunar; displays the computed local vertical in the pitch axis during Earth or Lunar orbit


It sounds like this one of two things, either it's is a "black box" which contains a display register....or it's the line that was discussed on the FDAI.   (I think it's the latter however.)


The second part here is the ORDEAL panel...the only places I've run across this for documentation show only the panel itself, and no description of opertation proceadures.  (I still need to check in the Function specific section of Cntrl Display in AOHBlkII)  In that section however...at the end, I found the "location" as described by this drawing:

(http://swatch.homeip.net/Panel13loc.JPG)
(Windows added for orientation in Left Seat)

Now there appear to be two different discriptions of this too....the AOH states makes it sound like the display was always plugged in, but not always mounted in open.  The other was only hinted at and, like you suggested dsaegrav, was that it is a seperate box that plugs in in that area.  All I've been able to find from photographs was inconclusive, but it does appear there is a panel in the recessed area above the window, so it may be that.

For Simplicity, I'd suggest we see if we can include this panel above the window in the empty space, unless someone has a better idea.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Swatch on March 06, 2006, 04:46:04 PM
NO SOONER DID I TYPE THAT, did I find the stowed location...and probably the best location for us to place it.

(http://swatch.homeip.net/ordeallocation.JPG)

It IS detachable (see the extension cord?), but it also appears to be readily accessable, and we should have extra space on the current panel bmp to place it.

Once again, if you guys want me to modify the current one since Moonwalker shouldn't be destracted from the LEM, just ask.  Supposedly this was used heavily in the TLI/TLC portion of Lunar Trasit (and I'm guessing TEI/TEC as well), so it's worth looking into.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Christophe on March 06, 2006, 05:12:29 PM
Congratulations Swatch!
This is a great find.
My vote is for you to put this panel in !


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 06, 2006, 07:28:34 PM
Please, let's get the current stuff done until putting more and more work on it. Maybe we'll add some stuff to future versions. But for now we have enough work on the current panels at least until sommer 2006 ;)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 06, 2006, 08:05:33 PM
Quote
Ok. I know there is lot more important and more complicated things to implement, but urine dump simulation sounded somehow funny.


Yes it is 8) But I would suggest to put things together step by step. At first we should complete our current stuff for the next release. And then, when we have a version which can be used to simulate a complete moon landing mission, we can add more stuff in future versions. I also thought about all the panels you are talking about at the moment. But it's just too much work left on the current panels and systems which will take a few month still to complete. After my graphical artwork on the LEM panels will be almost completed (some things still missing like the hatch and COAS) I'll draw and add the other panels step by step after the current panels work as they should (electricals, optics, FDAI's and so on...).

Current goals are AGC, SPS, SCS, Electricals and the most important thing for our next release: the LEM systems and panels. After that I'll add the control panel for the lunar roover ;) All other stuff (additional CSM panels) will be added to future versions when the basics are done...


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 06, 2006, 08:15:13 PM
Most important help we could need at the moment is coding and simulating various systems like RCS helium pressurization, SPS helium pressurization, LV tank indicators, and all the instruments and systems (electricals, ECS) on the LEM. Also the cabin pressurization of the CSM has to be done (panel 325/326) to be able to do an EVA. LES covers could be added to the CSM windows and so on...


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Apassi on March 06, 2006, 08:31:10 PM
Hi

You guys have done wonderful things to this project. :D  And for me this is dream.I thank you for this dream coming true.
Yes of course urine dump is not on top of the list.  I would still vote for small ORDEAL panel or mockup at start. If I understood right, there is some crucial stuff to simulate full moonflight procedure.

Thanking

Apassi


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Swatch on March 06, 2006, 08:44:21 PM
Quote from: Moonwalker
Most important help we could need at the moment is coding and simulating various systems like RCS helium pressurization, SPS helium pressurization, LV tank indicators, and all the instruments and systems (electricals, ECS) on the LEM. Also the cabin pressurization of the CSM has to be done (panel 325/326) to be able to do an EVA.


Well...I'm all for learning how to code that sorta thing.  So far I've been trying to assimilate how the code works by looking at the actual directories, but this takes a while....is there any suggestion of somewhere that I can look at to help learn it?

Quote from: Moonwalker
LES covers could be added to the CSM windows and so on...


These bmp's are in there...they just need to be added...I'm not sure what needs to be done there though as there is no previous example to look at on that sorta thing.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on March 06, 2006, 09:39:31 PM
For the LES I think you just need to define an area around the windows and either draw them or not as appropriate.

The other systems are kind of waiting on Radu right now, but he seems to have gone quiet lately.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 06, 2006, 09:39:37 PM
Quote
You guys have done wonderful things to this project.  And for me this is dream


Thanks :D For me it also is a great dream. After more than ten years of waiting of an apollo simulation (since "SHUTTLE" was released in 1991) I lost my hope and decided to put my own hands on it. Two years ago I did the first CSM main panel graphic and then I met Tschachim who I think started project apollo (after project Moonwalker reached the deadline) and here we are :D

Be patient, we'll have things like urine dump and additional panel stuff too in future releases ;)

Quote
is there any suggestion of somewhere that I can look at to help learn it?


Of course :) Maybe you could get some gauges working on the LEM panels, for example the range alt display on panel 1 or the vertical velocity and laterial velocity indicators on panel 1/2 ;)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Swatch on March 06, 2006, 11:28:44 PM
whoa...I was thinking more along the lines of How to do it...  I woudn't know the first place to start on programming those.

Are there ANY ways that I can learn how to help you guys program this stuff?

I'll get to the hard stuff later  :lol:


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: dseagrav on March 07, 2006, 02:20:42 PM
Quote from: Swatch
whoa...I was thinking more along the lines of How to do it...  I woudn't know the first place to start on programming those.


The fastest way to learn is to experiment; Get a copy of Visual Studio (Buy it, not the free one, if you can; That way you have less to "re-learn" when you get a real copy), get a beginning C++ book or something, and dive in. I program professionally, and I am entirely self-taught from scratch.

If I finish the SCS fast enough I can work on getting telemetry to and from the CMC if someone wants it. YaAGC can do it, I think it just needs the TCP socket stuff enabled. I was looking around and I found pictures of a controller's console and a telemetry display as well; I think it came from the Apollo 13 report. (Not the movie) - With some work, it may be possible to make a controller station simulator.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Swatch on March 07, 2006, 05:52:25 PM
Well I have rudimentary C++ skills, and as an aerospace engineer in training, I'm used to the general programming layout/ideas (I self-taught myselft Basic and Some JAVA), my biggest problem is that I can't experiment like you said.  With Basic, JAVA, MATLAB, PYTHON and the like, it's easy to get access to a compiler/program that allows you to really delve into it all.  C++ is one of those that I've been unable to find (and afford) access to.

I'll see what I can find, thank you dseagrav...I wasn't sure which programs to get, etc.  Your answer was very helpful.


Ok...I found a large number of drawings of MCC consoles/displays somewhere recently...but I forget where, I'll look for those and get them back to you.

Also on Panel 13, I have some ideas...so when I get Visual Studio, I'll start trying some of them.

Good luck on the SCS!


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on March 07, 2006, 08:31:02 PM
Is there a font bitmap (with black and white numbers) for the SPS oxidizer and fuel display on the right-hand side of the main panel? That should be fairly easy to set up though for now it would just show the same for both.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 08, 2006, 12:11:12 AM
Yeah, there are two bitmaps: fonts_white.bmp and fonts_black.bmp. Sorry I forgot to commit them to CVS. Now they are available :) Black & white fonts should be used for SPS panel (on panel 3, right hand side) and the black fonts can also be used for the attitude set panel on panel 1, left hand side.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Swatch on March 08, 2006, 12:19:13 AM
*edited*


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 08, 2006, 10:52:11 AM
Quote
Yeah, there are two bitmaps: fonts_white.bmp and fonts_black.bmp. Sorry I forgot to commit them to CVS. Now they are available  Black & white fonts should be used for SPS panel (on panel 3, right hand side) and the black fonts can also be used for the attitude set panel on panel 1, left hand side.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 08, 2006, 11:14:08 AM
Thanks for your help swatch. But it would be better to let me do the panel related graphics. I designed all the current graphics and it's better to use bitmaps which have only one style and not looking a little bit different. The other reason is the coders could be confused which graphics to use. Them from CVS or other ones which aren't made by the panel designer.

Current graphics are all done but some aren't comitted. But the fonts are committed to CVS already as you read above ;)

Help coding would be more welcome at the moment. There's still a lot to code and to simulate systems...


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on March 08, 2006, 07:29:19 PM
Gauges are working and checked in.

Note that they jump immediately from one number to the next: I presume the real displays would be rotating drums, so at some point in the future we might want to rewrite the code to simulate rotation of the display.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 08, 2006, 10:00:29 PM
Thanks movieman :D Would be cool to simulate rotating drums in future but it's okay that they jump immediately from one number to the next at the moment :)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Quetalsi on March 09, 2006, 04:08:38 PM
Hi, first it is to congratulate by your wonderful work. :D

CVS updated with these adds:

- Added Battery relay bus.

- Wired battery relay bus brakers A and B.

- Wired EPS sensor unit DC bus brakers A and B.

- Wired EPS sensor unit AC bus brakers 1 and 2.

- Wired Inverter brakers 1, 2 and 3.

I hope all go ok. :wink:


Greetings
Quetalsi


Title: Project apollo beta modules
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on March 10, 2006, 05:43:39 PM
Hi!,

I wanted to ask you, what happened to the project apollo beta modules releases, and is the new project apollo beta module will be released soon?? :lol:


Title: CVS update
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on March 10, 2006, 09:47:10 PM
Hi!,

When I try to do the CVS update, Tortoise CVS asks me for the password, and I don't know what my password is. I have a very bad feeling about those CVS updates because I have a lot of troubles with it, so that means I'd better off wait for the NASSP 7 to be released, because with the NASSP 7, all I have to do is to install orbiter, orbiter sound, and NASSP 7 and that's it, and it's that easy, and it also takes 5-10 minutes at the most. :?


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on March 10, 2006, 09:58:03 PM
I don't think there is a password for anonymous CVS, is there? Don't you just press return?


Title: CVS update
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on March 11, 2006, 02:04:56 AM
Hi!,

Yes, now there is, when I do the CVS checkout, CVS update, I make sure everything is correct, then I click ok, and then TortoiseCVS ask me for a password, and I'm serious. Like I said I'd better off wait for the NASSP 7 to be released, and I think that's the easiest.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: catnap on March 11, 2006, 05:26:15 AM
Hi,
   I too am having trouble doing a cvs update where it is asking me for a password to continue.
   Can somebody please fix this ?


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 11, 2006, 08:53:12 AM
Access to the project apollo source code should only be possible for developers (which means only by password):!:

Otherwise we might get into some trouble. For those who want to know the latest state of development Tschachim is doing beta modules ;)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on March 11, 2006, 09:50:45 AM
Write access is only for developers, but anyone should be able to read it with anonymous CVS.


Title: NASSP 7
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on March 11, 2006, 01:02:42 PM
Hi!,

I wanted to ask you, what kind of new features will be included in NASSP 7?What should I do, wait for the NASSP 7 to be released or not, since I'm having a lot of troubles with CVS update/CVS checkout like when TortoiseCVS ask me for a password before I continue.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: catnap on March 11, 2006, 02:28:56 PM
I do not wish to Write to CVS I only wish to read it like I could before by anonymous access If you cannot access the CVS files then it would not be possible to try and make modules from it.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Swatch on March 11, 2006, 03:10:02 PM
I'm gettin the same error, but if you've already posted that you have the error, you don't need to repost it.  I'm sure they're working on it.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: NoName on March 11, 2006, 05:06:29 PM
Quote
Write access is only for developers, but anyone should be able to read it with anonymous CVS.


Okay, sorry it was my mistake. I thought about reading & writing ;)


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: irnenginer on March 14, 2006, 10:20:37 PM
Usually I am not one to ask for extra features. But since I do not have a development setup I thought I would humbly ask.

I have been doing a lot of work on the DSKY and my mouse finger is getting sore poking buttons with the mouse. So if someone has a chance could they program keystroke inputs into the DSKY keys. The numpad would be ideal. I think a CNRTL-SHIFT would keep out of orbiter's way. I would suggest:

numbers mapping as you would expect and
ENTR -> ENTER
PRO -> DELETE/.
+ -> +
- -> -
VERB -> /
NOUN -> *

Anything would help :cry:


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: dseagrav on March 15, 2006, 03:32:58 PM
Quote from: irnenginer
The numpad would be ideal. I think a CNRTL-SHIFT would keep out of orbiter's way.


Would it be easier/acceptable to just use the numbers at the top of the keyboard? Trying to hold control or shift down while typing seems like a pain to me.

I may be able to take a crack at this when I get home; I planned to start putting together the beginning of the SCS controls subsystem when I got home anyway.

I really think what I am going to do is start toward the top of the AOH and just work my way down, and ignore/crock up what I don't understand; That way the real geniuses can concentrate on the LM and just clean up what I missed/screwed up later on. I just hope that it doesn't all have to be rewritten when the new panel SDK is done...

Oh, and speaking of the AOH, is there a book like that for the LM?


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: irnenginer on March 15, 2006, 11:19:06 PM
For me at least when I am putting a lot of data in the DSKY I have a list to go by. I can use the numpad without looking at the keys (somthing I do not do well using the number keys).

I don;t know if there is an AOH for the LEM availble. I di not have one. But I have been concentrating on the CSM.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Apassi on March 15, 2006, 11:20:43 PM
Hi

Thank you what you all have contributed to this simulator.
About those LM docs. Maybe you have seen them already.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ursine/LMhandbook.pdf

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19710071423_1971071423

Thanking You all to making this possible. :shock:

Apassi


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: dseagrav on March 16, 2006, 10:29:43 AM
Quote from: irnenginer
For me at least when I am putting a lot of data in the DSKY I have a list to go by. I can use the numpad without looking at the keys (somthing I do not do well using the number keys).


I came up with a solution I like ^_^ If numlock is off, keys go to Orbiter. If numlock is on, keys go to the DSKY. I had it partially working last night, I'll see if I can flesh it out enough for committing tonight.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on March 16, 2006, 11:21:26 AM
Hm, I think this is a little bit problematic/intransparent for users, which don't pay much attention on the num lock status and then will hate us because the keys are not working... :wink:

I would prefer the CTRL-SHIFT solution as suggested by irnenginer.

BTW: The numbers at the top of the keyboard control the camera position in VC mode.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: dseagrav on March 16, 2006, 09:18:28 PM
OK, done, but I made it use shift alone instead of shift and control. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass on this, it's just that shift and control plus page-up/page-down etc. is used for another function already on my computer, and the driver isn't smart enough to tell the difference between page-up and numpad-nine. Someone can make it shift-control if you want.

It uses the suggested layout with two additions. Numbers are numbers, / is verb, * is noun, - and + are - and +, enter is enter, delete is proceed, page-up is reset, and page-down is key-release. The keys pressed are on the main DSKY only, someone can make it use the nav DSKY later.

Oh, and it looks like the DSKY can get confused if you type too fast, so don't.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: irnenginer on March 16, 2006, 10:46:19 PM
I think that will work just great! I also thank you for your excellent effort. :D


Title: CSM instrument panel progress
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on March 17, 2006, 10:41:40 PM
Hi!,

I am really enjoying the new Project apollo beta modules 20060315! The CSM instrument panels is getting better and better and it sounds like all of the CSM instrument panels is going to be fully functional when the NASSP 7 is released!!  :lol:  :lol:


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Christophe on March 19, 2006, 06:28:37 PM
For Quetalsi, dseagrav, moonwalker, movieman... or any switch specialist.
I've just noticed a bug with RCS PRPLNT switches.
On the current CSM panel, RCS PRPLNT switches (2nd line from bottom on panel 2) commands the PRIM PRPLNT tb and RCS SEC PRPLNT FUEL PRESS commands the SEC PRPLNT tb, like this:
(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8683/sanstitre14jr.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Currently, If you want all tb gray you have to do:
SM RCS PRPLNT - OPEN
SM RCS SEC PRPLNT FUEL PRESS - OPEN

According to AOH, this is not correct.
I may be wrong but after I've read this:
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7144/sanstitre28dl.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

I think that RCS PRPLNT commands all the 8 tb related to the position of both the primary and secondary isolation valves.
Like this:
(http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5513/sanstitre35fg.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

The last line (first one from the bottom) of switches, SM RCS SEC PRPLNT FUEL PRESS has no talkback, and all should be in the CLOSE position during normal operations.

Don't know if someone want to change that, after all it's not very important and the RCS works fine in the current version :wink:

Cheers.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: dseagrav on March 19, 2006, 07:09:12 PM
Well, the RCS is two chapters after the SCS, so if I get there before anyone else does, I can take care of it when I get there.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Quetalsi on March 21, 2006, 11:35:19 AM
Hi Christophe, thanks to compare to me with dseagrav, moonwalker, movieman... , but the certain thing is that I am still very far from knowing what they know. :wink:

I believe that you are in the certain thing.

(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9095/dibujo65wi.png)

I am going to try to solve it.

Greetings
Quetalsi


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: dseagrav on March 21, 2006, 12:09:21 PM
Does anyone have an image of an entire EMS scroll? I'm going to need one before too long. The EMS is covered at the end of the SCS chapter, after Manual TVC. If someone could get one and make a nice long BMP of it that matches the height of the window on the EMS, I would much appreciate it.

Right now I have SCS manual commands almost done, accel and min-impulse mode work with simultaneous rotation and translation (and with proper thruster usage, it doesn't double up on conflicting rotation and translation commands ^_^) I have about half of auto-rate/proportional-rate mode done, and then I'm into MTVC. The only snag so far is I don't understand how to do the yaw nullification needed for entry mode to work, so I have ignored it so far.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Quetalsi on March 21, 2006, 02:14:40 PM
Hi dseagrav,

are you looking for something like this?

(http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/8124/dibujo73ve.png)

If yes, but which of both?  or both?

Greetings
Quetalsi


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: dseagrav on March 21, 2006, 05:20:36 PM
Something like that, yes. The actual tape had two of each of those patterns, a set of instructions for each pattern, a few in-flight and ground self-test patterns, and a set of ranging instructions. I have no idea what the test patterns or any of the instructions were.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Quetalsi on March 27, 2006, 02:29:39 PM
CVS updated bugfix with RCS PRPLNT switches like Christophe saw.

This switches and Helium are now wired to his brakers and its respective ones talkbacks, therefore without DC volts RCS will not work.

Greetings
Quetalsi


Title: Project Apollo Beta module 20060425
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on April 28, 2006, 08:03:21 PM
Hi!,

The new Project Apollo Beta module 20060425 is working good so far!! :lol: Is NASSP 7 is about ready to be released? :lol:


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on April 28, 2006, 08:57:30 PM
Really just need the LEM work finished and some bug-fixing, I think. Oh, and documentation :).


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on April 29, 2006, 09:31:34 PM
Hi!,

I wanted to ask you, the NASSP 7 will be released in June or July? :D


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Christophe on April 30, 2006, 04:20:31 AM
Kenedy said: "before this decade is out"
That left 4 years...
 :lol:


Title: NASSP 7
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on May 01, 2006, 11:24:08 PM
Hi!,

I wanted to ask you about the NASSP 7, what kind of features, how many functioning switches will work in the CSM cockpit, will the NASSP 7 will be released in June or July? And I'm very anxious to try out the NASSP 7!! :D


Title: Re: NASSP 7
Post by: mikaelanderlund on May 02, 2006, 01:08:11 PM
Quote from: Vincent Majerowicz
Hi!,

I wanted to ask you about the NASSP 7, what kind of features, how many functioning switches will work in the CSM cockpit, will the NASSP 7 will be released in June or July? And I'm very anxious to try out the NASSP 7!! :D
Do you never give up :lol:

Mikael


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on May 02, 2006, 01:18:21 PM
It's good to have someone reminding us that we need to do a release before long :).

I'd certainly hope we have something releasable by the end of July.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: mikaelanderlund on May 02, 2006, 01:20:43 PM
This year? :shock:

Mikael


Title: Re: NASSP 7
Post by: muskratluv on May 02, 2006, 04:06:01 PM
Quote from: Vincent Majerowicz
Hi!,

I wanted to ask you about the NASSP 7, what kind of features, how many functioning switches will work in the CSM cockpit, will the NASSP 7 will be released in June or July? And I'm very anxious to try out the NASSP 7!! :D


Hi,
I'm sorry, you arn't anxious enough.
Please show more enthusiasm.
Maybe if you ask every day they will release it that much faster.


Title: NASSP 7
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on May 02, 2006, 04:57:52 PM
Hi!,

Yes, I have a lot of enthusiasm in Apollo spaceflight stuff! I'm also very anxious because the NASSP 7 will have a lot of new features like working FDAI's, working SCS, working ASCP, more DSKY functions, more working switches, working RHC (Rotational hand controller), THC (Translation hand controller), working EPS (Electrical power system), working ECS (Environmental control system), probably working G&N (Guidance & Navigation) and so forth!! I think there will probably be about 300-400 working switches in the CSM that does anything!:lol:


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: muskratluv on May 02, 2006, 05:18:02 PM
Yah, I mean it sounds totally cool, and I also can't wait to see the new additions.
However, I find that good things come to those who wait.
Just figure that the more time the developers spend on the project, the better it will be!


Title: NASSP 7
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on May 02, 2006, 05:23:56 PM
Hi!,

On Project Apollo Beta 20060425, there are over 100 working switches on the CSM main instrument panel and there are over 200 working switches on the real CSM main instrument panel, so in NASSP 7, there will probably be about 125-150 working switches on the CSM main instrument panel! :D


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on May 02, 2006, 07:14:18 PM
I'm not sure how many more working switches will be added between the Beta and the release version. As far as I'm aware all the essential systems in the CSM work now, so the LEM is the weak point.


Title: NASSP 7
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on May 02, 2006, 07:51:32 PM
Hi!, Movieman,

I wanted to ask you, do you know when the NASSP 7 will be released? I ask that because I'm not sure but I think the NASSP 7 will be released in June or July, correct me if I'm mistaken! :D


Title: Re: NASSP 7
Post by: Christophe on May 03, 2006, 02:57:42 AM
Quote from: Vincent Majerowicz
Hi!, Movieman,

I wanted to ask you, do you know when the NASSP 7 will be released? I ask that because I'm not sure but I think the NASSP 7 will be released in June or July, correct me if I'm mistaken! :D


Hi Vincent!

I hope NASSP 7 will be released as soon as possible, too.
By now, yet the beta version is very interesting. You have lot of great stuff, the VAB, the crawler, MSS; in the CSM itself the SCS is already working as well as the complete FDAI including error and rate needles. If you want you can use vAGC that allow you to get the Digital AutoPilot (DAP) working and the possibility to realign the IMU with backup (and real!) programs(P54).
I suggest to everybody waiting for the released version to commence to familiar with the current beta released. NASSP 7 is far more complex than was 6.4. and requires a hard training to play with.
It's a great and beautiful odissey to follow the development of this project.
Don't hesitate to post your experience and reports.
It's almost as usefull as the development itself.

Cheers.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on May 03, 2006, 05:32:53 AM
To be honest, the release date may be limited more by documentation and scenario creation than by coding! There's a lot of new stuff that even I don't understand now.

Also, if the new version of Orbiter comes out before then there may be some changes required for full compatibility.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Christophe on May 03, 2006, 07:31:07 AM
Quote from: movieman
the release date may be limited more by documentation and scenario creation than by coding


The problem of scenario creation is the compatibility with each module change.
I use to build home made scenario from the official ones but as soon as there is a major change in the project, those scenario crash or at least they do not work well.
Especially those who are involved in the vAGC


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: muskratluv on May 03, 2006, 10:38:00 AM
Quote from: movieman
To be honest, the release date may be limited more by documentation and scenario creation than by coding! There's a lot of new stuff that even I don't understand now.

Also, if the new version of Orbiter comes out before then there may be some changes required for full compatibility.


So July then?

Just kidding.
Hehe, sorry I had to do it.
Edit: Ok I'll just shutup now.


Title: NASSP 7
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on May 03, 2006, 04:36:39 PM
Hi!, Muskratluv,

You're not kidding, the NASSP 7 will be released probably in July or maybe June at the earliest. :lol:


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on May 17, 2006, 05:40:33 PM
Fixed labels of SCS ELEC. POWER switch and SIG COND... POWER switch on panel 7.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM panel progress
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on May 26, 2006, 06:06:03 PM
Hi!,

I wanted to ask you, how is the CSM panel coming along since the CVS is online again, will the NASSP 7 will be released anytime soon? :D


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on May 26, 2006, 07:47:40 PM
CSM is pretty usable: we really just need to get the LEM working.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: gimp1992 on May 27, 2006, 03:32:16 PM
Hey that sounds like the real Apollo. I guess we will just have to try a cicumlular flight. Lunar orbit here we come!


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on May 27, 2006, 04:02:22 PM
Quote
Hey that sounds like the real Apollo.


True :).


Title: CSM/LM progress
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on May 27, 2006, 05:48:20 PM
Hi!,

I wanted to ask you, how much work is left in the CSM, and how much work is left in LM, do you know when the LM will be finished? :D


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: mikaelanderlund on May 28, 2006, 03:54:50 AM
Quote from: movieman
CSM is pretty usable: we really just need to get the LEM working.
Sounds great!  :D  

Mikael


Title: New beta modules
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on May 28, 2006, 11:59:51 PM
Hi!,

What's going on with new beta modules? It's been over a month since the last beta module released. Is the new beta modules will be released in a few days? :D


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on May 30, 2006, 05:35:07 PM
Checked in a few changes. One of the main ones is that most gauges now need power to operate... if they're not powered then you'll get a zero reading. I'm not sure where the power came from on the real panel, so for now it's a merge of bus A and B.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on May 30, 2006, 06:14:55 PM
Mission timer and DSKY now need power to operate as well.


Title: Project Apollo Beta module 20060530
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on May 30, 2006, 10:23:11 PM
Hi!,

I got a serious problem, the manual attitude don't work even with 16 auto RCS select switches set to MNA/MNB, sig cond/bias power pwr sup switches 1/2 on, manual attitude roll, pitch, and yaw switches set to rate CMD, and the 2/3 logic power switch is set to on, and BMAG mode doesn't work even with BMAG switches set to rate 1 and rate 2, and BMAG power rotary knob is set to on in Project Apollo Beta module 20060530. :o Any help would be greatly appreciated!!


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on May 31, 2006, 06:42:10 AM
Hi Movieman,

thanks for your latest additions. However, there's a small problem with the DSKY power consumption. It's quite easy to fix, but I would like to explain it because it seems to be a common mistake I also did several times :wink: :

The DSKY draws power in DSKYLightBlt(), which is called within clbkPanelRedrawEvent(). Normally that's fine, the problem begins if you pause Orbiter. Then the panel is still redrawn, so clbkPanelRedrawEvent is still called, but there's no timestep anymore until you unpause Orbiter, so the DSKY draws more and more power. If you wait long enough, the power consumption during the first timestep after unpausing Orbiter is so huge that you loose the buses.

You see the effect quite easy: Start the Apollo 11 quickstart launch, leave the AGC in standby, so that the STBY light is lit, switch the DC indicators to Main Bus A, pause Orbiter and watch the amp meter. You'll notice that the current gets bigger and bigger. If no DSKY light is lit you don't have that effect.

It's easy to fix: You need to introduce a void DSKY::SystemTimestep(double simdt) function for the DSKY, call it in void Saturn::SystemsInternalTimestep(double simdt) for both DSKYs and call DrawPower only within DSKY::SystemTimestep, then everything is fine.

Hi Vincent,

silly question because my knowledge of the SCS is still very limited: What exactly is not working?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on May 31, 2006, 06:58:22 AM
Actually, I was thinking that this morning.

The solution I've used in the past is to register the object with the Panel SDK so that it automatically resets the power usage on each timestep (and, as a side-benefit, you can add save and load functions if required)... did your changes affect that so it no longer works?

Ah, I guess you're right that the problem is due to drawing the power in the rendering function and not the timestep as I think everything else does use the timestep code.


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on May 31, 2006, 07:10:36 AM
No, the Panel SDK still resets the power usage on each timestep (and calls Save/Load, which is used for the BatteryCharger for instance), the problem is that if you pause Orbiter there are no timesteps until you un-pause Orbiter.

The reason why the DrawPower() calls should be within Saturn::SystemsInternalTimestep by introducing a DSKY::SystemTimestep function instead of doing it within the normal DSKY::Timestep function is that the PanelSDK can do more than one (internal) timestep in one Orbiter timestep, so you need to draw the power every PanelSDK timestep, otherwise the power consumption is too low when the Panel SDK begins to do multiple (internal) timesteps. Look here: http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=571

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: BMAG mode
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on May 31, 2006, 06:33:57 PM
Hi!,

What's not working is when I set the BMAG mode pitch, roll, and yaw switches to rate 1(down position), rate 2(up position), and att 1/rate 2(center position) the BMAG mode doesn't do anything even with 2 BMAG power rotary knobs is set to on, FDAI/GPI power rotary knob is set to 1 and 2 and both, the SCS electronics power rotary knob is set to ECA, and ECA/GDC, the TVC servo power switch is set to 1-AC1/MNA-2/AC2/MNB, the logic power 2/3 switch is set to on, and Sig cond/driver bias power pwr sup switches 1/2 is set to AC1/AC2, besides I don't exactly know how the BMAG mode works and I would like to know how the BMAG mode is activated in the real Apollo Spacecraft besides setting the BMAG mode pitch, roll, and yaw switches to rate 1, rate 2 and att 1/rate 2  . :?Oh, I forgot to tell you, the BMAG mode works in Project Apollo beta 20060430, but the BMAG mode doesn't work in Project Apollo beta 20060530. :(


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: dseagrav on May 31, 2006, 10:42:21 PM
What are you expecing it to do?

BMAG just provides rate data and attitude data through the GDC. Did you turn the FDAI on?

The BMAG won't point the spacecraft without the use of SCS.


Title: BMAG mode
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on June 01, 2006, 12:14:01 AM
Hi!,

Yes, I turned the FDAI on. I know the BMAG mode works in Project Apollo beta 20060430, and I don't know if the BMAG mode works in Project Apollo beta 20060530 or not, I'm just confused. :?


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: dseagrav on June 01, 2006, 02:30:32 AM
I don't understand what you mean by "BMAG mode".

The BMAG mode switches set the GDC input selectors and the BMAG cage logic lines. The GDC generates spacecraft attitude data as output based on the RATE data from one operating BMAG. BMAG1 optionally has an ATTITUDE mode that can be used as a check of the GDC, but it's not properly handled in the current code (It's also not documented and I haven't completely figured it out yet. I will probably have to track down an astronaut and ask them.) BMAG2 does NOT have the attitude mode, it is permanently caged. All the BMAG mode switches do is determine which BMAG feeds the GDC and how. The GDC always generates the same data no matter which BMAG feeds it (provided the data coming in is the same)

The attitude and rate data generated by the GDC is used to provide input for the ECA, which generates jet commands for the RJ/EC. The CMC never uses the BMAG for any purpose. There was a proposed mode where the GDC could provide attitude data for the CMC but it was never wired up, even though the switch for it was present.


Title: US measurements
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on June 01, 2006, 06:08:24 PM
Hi!,

Will the US measurements like FPS(Feet Per Second), NM(Nautical Miles) will be used in NASSP 7 or NASSP 8? And I prefer using the US measurements because real Apollo spacecraft use US measurements. :D


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on June 01, 2006, 06:15:20 PM
The C++ AGC uses metric because that's what the MFDs use, though in theory it can use either. Unfortunately not much of the code calls the right functions to support imperial units.

The Virtual AGC uses imperial, but that's because it can't use anything else :).


Title: BMAG mode
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on June 01, 2006, 06:44:26 PM
Hi!,

I understand how the BMAG mode works now! :D You're absolutely right, the BMAG mode does work!! :) And I wanted to ask you, is it possible to start the scenario with the CSM cockpit cold & dark situation in NASSP 7? :D


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on June 21, 2006, 08:28:50 AM
DSKY power consumption was still based on how often the render funtions are called within one Timestep causing that "pause problem" mentioned above. I fixed that and also fixed a bug causing weired power consumption after loading a scenario with a DSKY with empty prog/verb/noun/registers (the corresponding strings are "" then).

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: mikaelanderlund on June 21, 2006, 09:10:58 AM
Any progress or news about CM SPS/RCS tank pressure indicators?

Mikael


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on June 21, 2006, 09:24:39 AM
Not yet, I'm still busy with the TLI and working on a IU TLI burn program for IU controlled TLI burns in the VAGC case. That should be finished in a new days, so stay tuned... :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on June 21, 2006, 09:39:46 AM
BTW, I've had a weird problem in a couple of cases where I load a scenario and the fuel cell bus is going on and off several times a second. I've no idea what's causing it, but it is quite cool to see all the lights on the DSKY and CWS flickering on and off and the gauge readings bouncing around just like there's a real electrical supply problem :).


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: mikaelanderlund on June 21, 2006, 09:46:12 AM
Quote from: Tschachim
Not yet, I'm still busy with the TLI and working on a IU TLI burn program for IU controlled TLI burns in the VAGC case. That should be finished in a new days, so stay tuned... :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Cool!  :D So you are planing for a vAGC apollo 8 mission only using vAGC to control the sc?

Mikael


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on June 21, 2006, 09:58:27 AM
Hi movieman,

This is exactly the bug I meant, I saw it yesterday the first time, looks quite fancy. :)

One problem was that after loading a scenario with a empty R1 register for instance the string is "" and the power calculations still looked at all 6 characters and didn't check if the character is between '0' and '9' and so were reading from SegmentCount[] at uninitialized memory positions.

The other issue I fixed was that the maximum DSKY power consumption with everything turned on was about 15 times too high compared to the values in the Systems handbook...

Hi Mikael,

in Apollo 8 the AGC does (and did) NOT control the spacecraft during TLI, but the IU does.

Currently you actually can do a TLI burn in the VAGC case by doing it manually or with IMFD auto burn. I'm just moving the AGC++ P15 stuff to the IU and making it configurable with a MFD. This is more intended as a "template" for the TLI calculations and control LazyD is hopefully going to do...

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on June 21, 2006, 09:59:39 AM
Duh, that makes sense now. I wonder why it didn't happen until I saved and reloaded the scenario though?


Title: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on June 21, 2006, 10:02:52 AM
Because of the following in the DSKY constructor:

strcpy (Prog, TwoSpace);
strcpy (Verb, TwoSpace);
strcpy (Noun, TwoSpace);
strcpy (R1, SixSpace);
strcpy (R2, SixSpace);
strcpy (R3, SixSpace);

But it took me a couple of hours yesterday night to figure that out. :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: mikaelanderlund on July 03, 2006, 09:28:45 PM
Hi panels developpers,

I like the CSM instrument panels very very much, thanks :D. I know it's a lot of work to give us a functional EMS panel but is it possible to at least have a functional TEST position check (the EMS FUNCTION  switch)? People like me like flashing lights :D. A functional SPS and .05 light shouldn't be too complicated, or is it? I'm not sure but I think the white LV ENGINES LIGHTS should be a little bit more yellow and the LV RATE, LV GUID and S-II lights red, shouldn't they? And finaly, I would like a needle in the OXID UNBAL indicater which moves when you use the TEST switch.

Mikael


Title: Re: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on July 04, 2006, 06:33:54 AM
Hi Mikael,

yeah, these lights should be red, hopefully Moonwalker will fix that sometime.

Quote from: mikaelanderlund
I know it's a lot of work to give us a functional EMS panel but is it possible to at least have a functional TEST position check (the EMS FUNCTION  switch)?

Chode is working on that, but I don't know the status.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: movieman on July 04, 2006, 07:52:24 AM
We also need the 8 engine lights for the Saturn 1b. I did send a PM to Moonwalker, but never got a response... is he still around?


Title: Re: CSM Instrument Panels
Post by: Tschachim on July 04, 2006, 08:18:18 AM
I didn't talk to Moonwalker since a few months but I saw him in the "Users Online" list of the forum recently, so hopefully he's just too busy to answer...

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 15, 2006, 10:10:39 PM
- New LV ENGINES lights added ("lv_eng_s1b.bmp" for use with Saturn1B as requested by Movieman)
- ORDEAL panel (by Swatch :wink:) added to the left cabin press panel (switches not implemented yet)

If you need more changes on the CSM panels to simulate the Saturn1B panel, let me know Movieman ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 16, 2006, 06:15:08 AM
Cool! :)

While we're talking about the LV ENGINE lights I have a "change request": The LV RATE light, the S-II SEP light and the LV GUID light should illuminate red, not yellow.

Cheers
Tschachim

PS: I merged the new topic into the existing, sticky topic.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on July 16, 2006, 07:12:43 AM
I think the engine lights are the only major change needed for the Saturn 1b. There may be some switches that need to be removed from the control panel bitmap, but I can probably do that myself.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 16, 2006, 10:42:18 AM
Quote
The LV RATE light, the S-II SEP light and the LV GUID light should illuminate red, not yellow.

The requested lights illuminate red now ;)

Quote
There may be some switches that need to be removed from the control panel bitmap, but I can probably do that myself.

But let me know which switches do you remove. I have to remove them too on my "original" control panel bitmap if there may be another changes/corrections required in future to keep my bitmaps on the latest status :) The other thing is I safe all the bitmaps as "run length encoded" before I commit them and before I compile the dll's. Otherwise the "Saturn5.dll" or "Saturn1b.dll" would have a size of over 100mb ;) So the bitmaps in the CVS source code are only run length encoded bitmaps. I'm the only person who has all the NASSP panel bitmaps as 24bit bitmaps :cool7777:
 
 




Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 16, 2006, 12:15:24 PM
Thanks for fixing the LV lights!  :)

Quote from: Moonwalker
I'm the only person who has all the NASSP panel bitmaps as 24bit bitmaps

I fixed the labels of SCS ELEC. POWER switch and SIG COND... POWER switch on panel 7 a few months ago, you probably want to do these changes with your "master bitmap", too.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 16, 2006, 12:50:23 PM
Panel 13 (ORDEAL) switches and rotary now work. It's located on the csm cabin press panel (left hand side).

Quote
I fixed the labels of SCS ELEC. POWER switch and SIG COND... POWER switch on panel 7 a few months ago, you probably want to do these changes with your "master bitmap", too.

Okay thanks. 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: BigDAS on July 16, 2006, 01:28:39 PM
I'm getting this on CVS update. It is down again or updating?

Tortoise Tip:  One or more of your files has a conflict.  This means that someone else has altered the same part of the file as you.  Look above for the files marked "C ", and manually edit them to resolve the conflict.



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 16, 2006, 03:36:59 PM
That means that you changed the files mentioned by CVS and now marked with a red "C" in Windows Explorer and the CVS Update wants to change them, too and merging is not possible. What files did you changed and are having a merge conflict now?

The files now need manual merging/editing or if you don't care about your changes you can delete the conflicting files and update again, too.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: BigDAS on July 16, 2006, 04:02:36 PM
Yup, I deleted the entire ProjectApollo directory and did a fresh CVS download, then installed the default Orbiter files, Apollo 7.0 beta modules and Meshland. Seems I'll have to start over.
Thanks.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: bart on July 17, 2006, 03:34:14 AM
Panel 13 (ORDEAL) switches and rotary now work. It's located on the csm cabin press panel (left hand side).

Okay thanks.

Panel 13? I can't see this other than in VC mode just above the L/H side window.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on July 17, 2006, 06:52:03 AM
Moonwalker is my Hero! :Excited432:

Look at this, I go away for a weekend and poof, lots of stuff is done....maybe I should do that more often. :wink:

I love these new smilies BTW!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 17, 2006, 12:12:37 PM
Quote
Moonwalker is my Hero!

Uuh thx, but don't forget all the coders! They put a lot of hard work in this project and make all the panels and systems alive :ThumbsUp432:

Thanks again Swatch & Rob for the phantastic videos and detail photos. I love them. One result of your visit at the Glenn Research Center will be new and much more realistic CSM rendezvous windows soon...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on July 22, 2006, 12:02:41 PM
Hi Apollo fans;
I'm back after a month caused I moved the house and lost my internet connection all that time. France Telecom! what a pity!..;

Glad to see that the project is still building up.
10000 thanks to Moonwalker for the Ordeal; I was waiting for it for half a year. I'll update my cvs, install the new beta and test it.
 :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 23, 2006, 12:24:22 PM
Related to the new high detail photos and videos of Swatch and Rob I'm updating all the CSM panel graphics. I noticed a lot of differences between the real panels and our panels (specially colours of the places where all the switches are put in, the talkbacks, sequencer lights/guards and much more). I don't change the size of any bitmap but the major design (colours, edges...) :cool7777:     

I'll let you know when the new bitmaps are commited to CVS as soon as possible :wink:

By the way, is somebody working on the SPS and RCS system? There is still some important stuff missing on the cm instrument panels (SPS/CM RCS controls, indicators & pressurization, ...) :worried34534:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on July 23, 2006, 12:47:51 PM
I was thinking about making the delta-V meter work, which would require removing the numbers which are currently displayed on it.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 23, 2006, 12:52:04 PM
I'm working on the SPS system.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 23, 2006, 01:25:45 PM
Quote
I was thinking about making the delta-V meter work, which would require removing the numbers which are currently displayed on it.

It's the delta-V/Range display on the EMS control panel, right? I'll remove the numbers...

Quote
I'm working on the SPS system.

Okay, great :wink:



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 23, 2006, 02:21:56 PM
I was thinking about making the delta-V meter work, which would require removing the numbers which are currently displayed on it.

Looks like we're working on similar things because the delta-V meter is used for the SCS THRUST ON-OFF mode (I didn't implement anything, still reading docu). And not to forget Chode who is (hopefully) still working on the EMS. What are you going to do in detail?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on July 23, 2006, 03:16:04 PM
Nothing, if other people are doing it :).


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 24, 2006, 05:50:58 AM
I knew you'll answer like this :wink:, me, too!  :D

Anyway, I'm still learning how the SPS was working, so if you want to do the delta V measurement stuff, it would be great...

Cheers
Tschachim

BTW: How is the vampire movie coming along?  :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on July 24, 2006, 11:07:24 AM
Script's written other than the big fights at the end, but it's going to need a few rewrites to make sense :).

The main reason I was going to get the delta-V meter going was that I found a NASA document about faults in the system: for example, it tended to jump to random values when seperating from the SIVb.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: dseagrav on July 24, 2006, 11:27:51 AM
It also figures heavily into SCS-controlled SPS burns.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 24, 2006, 11:38:05 AM
Quote from: dseagrav
It also figures heavily into SCS-controlled SPS burns.

This is what I meant with "SCS THRUST ON-OFF mode", or better SCS DELTA V mode of the SPS THRUST ON-OFF logic...

Quote from: movieman
Script's written other than the big fights at the end, but it's going to need a few rewrites to make sense.

Is it actually necessary for a vampire movie to make sense?  :D :evil:
Sorry for bothering you, it's just too funny...

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: dseagrav on July 24, 2006, 11:42:18 AM
No, I meant the small-change error. I didn't read everything because I was in a hurry but I understand it NASA went to some trouble to keep it from happening during short or abrupt SPS burns.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 24, 2006, 11:46:06 AM
Ah, now I got you, sorry.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on July 27, 2006, 12:12:49 PM
Found a slight (very very slight) bug with the EPS:
in backup crew prelaunch check step 4- standby inverter (n3) check.
It is said to reset the AC bus 2 and to verify the master alarm pb on both panel 3 and 122 light on. That means th mastaer alarm on panel 1 should stay out.
In the sim the 3 one come on.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: mikaelanderlund on July 27, 2006, 02:49:03 PM
The C/W switch is in ACK position when you do the standby inverter check, isn't it? The MASTER ALARM light on panel 1 is only inactive when C/W switch is at BOOSTER position.

Mikael


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on July 27, 2006, 03:28:39 PM
Quote
The MASTER ALARM light on panel 1 is only inactive when C/W switch is at BOOSTER position.

Are you sure of that?
However I agree that the C/W is in acknoledge mode at this time but I verified with the checklist (AOHV2) and they say you should have only 2 Master alarm on. (3 & 122)
And nowhere before is it said to switch to another C/W mode!??
Strange... :|


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on July 27, 2006, 03:31:42 PM
You're right. If I switch to booster mode during the test I got only 2 alarm lts. But that doesn't explain why it is not said in the check.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on July 27, 2006, 04:44:45 PM
Hi Moonwalker!
There's a little mistake on ORDEAL panel 13: The "SLEW" switch is a 3 positions switch and should be set to ctr for launch.
Could you please fix that.
Many thanks for all your work.
I don't want to ask too much but, would it be possible to get more available position for the ALT SET cont on ORDEAL. For the moment the increase is by 50 nm (100, 150, 200) and it's too large.

Cheers.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 27, 2006, 04:53:11 PM
But that doesn't explain why it is not said in the check.

You're right, you must be in BOOST mode and the AOH doesn't mention that, looks like a bug in the AOH for me. We're getting better than these Apollo guys...  :cool7777:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 27, 2006, 05:31:35 PM
Quote
The "SLEW" switch is a 3 positions switch and should be set to ctr for launch

Sure, I'm going to commit new panel graphics today and of course fix the SLW- switch ;)

Quote
would it be possible to get more available position for the ALT SET cont on ORDEAL. For the moment the increase is by 50 nm (100, 150, 200) and it's too large.

That would be possible. But I don't know who's working on the ORDEAL panel at the moment. I need to know how much positions need to be simulated.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on July 27, 2006, 05:43:09 PM
Quote
You're right, you must be in BOOST mode and the AOH doesn't mention that, looks like a bug in the AOH for me. We're getting better than these Apollo guys...

Ok. I will add that in the backup crew prelaunch checklist... and mail to NASA to tell them somebody didn't do that job :evil:

Moonwalker: thanks a lot and I let the check like that if you plan to fix that.
Quote
That would be possible. But I don't know who's working on the ORDEAL panel at the moment. I need to know how much positions need to be simulated.
I would like to answer... all the positions! :wink:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on July 27, 2006, 05:48:30 PM
Seems to be a malfunction with the ECS: The CO2 pp increases during prelaunch and gives an alarm.

:Stop22: Please some fresh air! :D


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 27, 2006, 06:12:28 PM
Suit Compressor?  :?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 27, 2006, 06:13:56 PM
Quote
The "SLEW" switch is a 3 positions switch and should be set to ctr for launch

Well I had a look into the Controls & Displays PDF. The documentation only descripes function for UP (increasing ordeal output to FDAI) and DOWN (decreasing ordeal output to FDAI) position. What does the center position do?

Quote
I would like to answer... all the positions!

I think we don't have a switch class at the moment to be able to simulate 31 different positions :wink: But if somebody is working on the ALT SET related function and rotary code, I'll add the positions immediately ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 27, 2006, 06:16:30 PM
Quote
The CO2 pp increases during prelaunch and gives an alarm.

I noted that too already but some time ago.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 27, 2006, 06:23:12 PM
Quote
I think we don't have a switch class at the moment to be able to simulate 31 different positions

Ups, it's 62 positions. That would require a bitmap of 5208x 84 pixels :Excited432: Is somebody working on the ORDEAL ALT SET function at the moment? Otherwise I put the bitmap on the bottom of my checklist ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on July 27, 2006, 06:25:15 PM
Suit Compressor? :?

Suit compressor should be turned off until prime crew ingress.
Quote
Well I had a look into the Controls & Displays PDF. The documentation only descripes function for UP (increasing ordeal output to FDAI) and DOWN (decreasing ordeal output to FDAI) position. What does the center position do?
Don't know exactly. I refer to the the aohv2p4-1_4-36.pdf


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 27, 2006, 06:30:09 PM
Quote
Don't know exactly.

Me too. But, mhhh, well the apollo 15 checklist says "off (center)".

I think I should add a three positions SLEW- switch ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on July 27, 2006, 07:19:15 PM
Quote
I think we don't have a switch class at the moment to be able to simulate 31 different positions

Ups, it's 62 positions. That would require a bitmap of 5208x 84 pixels :Excited432: Is somebody working on the ORDEAL ALT SET function at the moment? Otherwise I put the bitmap on the bottom of my checklist ;)

Just do 31 positions, then whoever does the code for it, just change the bitmap in increments of two value changes.  a bitmap of that size is absurd.  alternatively, it is possible to program it so that it is not a linear bitmap and instead do a rectangular bitmap, it's just a lot of extra coding.  Even then, it's too big IMHO, but its a start....is there no way to actively rotate a single bitmap?

Something like that deserves its own switch class anyway due to it's function.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: mikaelanderlund on July 28, 2006, 01:08:54 AM
Seems to be a malfunction with the ECS: The CO2 pp increases during prelaunch and gives an alarm.

:Stop22: Please some fresh air! :D

Strange :? I havn't got any problem with the CO2 pp and I follow your checklist.

Mikael


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 28, 2006, 03:51:30 AM
Suit compressor should be turned off until prime crew ingress.

Hm, at what MET the CO2 pressure begins to raise? Can you attach a scenario (by clicking on "Additional Options" in the reply screen and choosing the .scn file to attach)?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on July 28, 2006, 04:19:35 AM
Quote
Hm, at what MET the CO2 pressure begins to raise? Can you attach a scenario (by clicking on "Additional Options" in the reply screen and choosing the .scn file to attach)?

I think (but I'm not sure) the CO2 raises as soon as the sim starts. I was working with the Apollo 7 vAGC scenario, performing the backup crew prelaunch to update the check with the new features. So the suit compressor was turned off and about 1 hour in the sim I got the CO2 pp alarm. I saw that the gauges was at the bottom of the yellow area (shame on me I don't remember which pressure it is :?). I let the suit compressor off to complete the check and the partial pressure continued to raise to the top of the gauge. As soon as I was told to turn it on, just before the prime crew ingress I noticed that the CO2 became to decrease.
I think that the system doesn't know the hatch is open and that the vessel is not pressurised. For it the suit compressor is off and "somebody" is breathing inside the spacecraft so the CO2 is increasing.
I didn' t have time to continue the work yesterday (it was about 2 am) and I couldn't check if it's enough time before launch for the CO2 to come back to a nominal pressure, but I believe so.
I will check right know.
I saved the scenario. At that time the CO2 pressure is around 15 in Hg.
I atteched the scn file to this post.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 28, 2006, 05:08:57 AM
Thanks for posting the scenario! :)

In your scenario it's T-55min, so the prime crew ingress/cabin closeout was already 45min ago. At least yesterday the Apollo 7 scenarios started still (wrongly) at T-1h with the prime crew already in the spacecraft, perhaps this is the problem?

Now both Apollo 7 scenarios starts at T-3h as usual, so hopefully it's working again.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on July 28, 2006, 06:05:05 AM
Thanks for posting the scenario! :)

In your scenario it's T-55min, so the prime crew ingress/cabin closeout was already 45min ago. At least yesterday the Apollo 7 scenarios started still (wrongly) at T-1h with the prime crew already in the spacecraft, perhaps this is the problem?

Now both Apollo 7 scenarios starts at T-3h as usual, so hopefully it's working again.

Cheers
Tschachim

Oh, it's T-55 because I took too much time working with the checklist since I started at T-3h00 :wink:. I've already put the mission time -10800 in the original scenario file I've created yesterday (and yes of course I updated the MJD too... :wink:)

anyway no matter, as I posted above I think that if you take too much time to do the backup crew check, the CO2 raises gently and you got the alarm, but it probably come back to normal as soon as the suit compressor is turned on. The simmer has just to know that and disregard the alarm during early prelaunch...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 28, 2006, 06:11:43 AM
Yes, but the CO2 pressure should begin to increase at T-1h40min, when the time acceleration is set to 1 automatically and the prelaunch sound came up. If the CO2 pressure began to increase before that you found a bug (but I just re-checked it and it was fine)...

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on July 28, 2006, 08:17:14 AM
Yes, but the CO2 pressure should begin to increase at T-1h40min, when the time acceleration is set to 1 automatically and the prelaunch sound came up. If the CO2 pressure began to increase before that you found a bug (but I just re-checked it and it was fine)...

Cheers
Tschachim

Oh I didn't know that! seems the system has became greater and greater during my absence. :ThumbsUp432:
So don't focuse on this, I probably took too much time with suit compressor off and overpassed the T-1h40 mark.
However, could you tell me what happens if I start a scenario earlier than T-3h00? I mean; does the system counts 1h and 20 minutes before the CO2 raises (until 1h40 if you start at T-3h00) or does it wait until the T-1h40 mark independantly the time you start the simulation?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 28, 2006, 08:23:27 AM
It waits until the T-1h40min mark: http://nassp.sf.net/user/checklist-standard.html#ingress

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on July 28, 2006, 11:04:29 AM
Thanks for the link Tschachim. I've forgotten it. Sorry.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on July 28, 2006, 06:58:56 PM
I wonder if the C/W system is correct while in ACK mode.
In this mode, when you got an alarm, say O2 FLOW HI, the associated light stay out but the 3 M/A lts come one as well as the audio tone. You have to push on the M/A pb to lighten the O2FLOW HI warning. And as soon as the M/A is released, the O2 FLOW HI disappear.
But according to the AS 15 System checklist, it is said that when you got an alarm while in ACK mode, say again O2 FLOW HI, you got the M/A light on plus audio tone and when you press on the M/A, the O2 FLOW HI remains on.
That does mean that the light was already on, as soon as the failure has occured and you don't have to press on the M/A to see it.
Of course, when you press the M/A and then release it the messages goes out. That's the reason why this C/W mode is called ACK, for Acknoledge.
I'm not sure of that because I didn't read anything else about the C/W system except the checklist. And I spent enough time aboard some jet aircrafts (old ones as well as more recent) to think that it is more logical and more safe if a caution light come on as soon as a failure occurs.
In any aircraft the purpose of equivalent to the acknoledge mode is the ability of erasing a caution light to avoid confusion in the case of another failures occurs. Because one alarm alone is more attractive than amongst several ones.
Don't know if I'm right.
Any opinion?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 29, 2006, 07:13:28 AM
I'm not sure of that because I didn't read anything else about the C/W system except the checklist.

Then I suggest to go ahead and read the AOH... :wink:

No, sorry, you need to know why there's an ACK mode: The ACK switch position is selected when the crew desires to adapt their eyes to darkness. While in this mode, incoming signals will activate only the master alarm lights and the tone. To determine the actual alarm, you must press one of the MASTER ALARM buttons, the status light is illuminated as long as the MASTER ALARM button is depressed.

http://history.nasa.gov/afj/aoh/aoh-v1-2-10-c+w.pdf page 3

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on July 29, 2006, 08:04:51 AM
Ooops!  :ashamed45523:
You're perfectly right. Thanks for the explanations and for the link. In fact I have the AOH but there's so much to read!...

I'm happy to see how the modelling of the spacecraft systems are accurate. You guy did a fabulous job.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 03, 2006, 03:41:03 PM
I commited the new panel graphics. Hope you like the new stuff :wink:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on August 03, 2006, 04:09:40 PM
 :shock: WOW, that is really great, a complete new look!  :shock:
 especially the talkbacks and the circuit brakers are very cool, thank you very much!  :) :) :)

 :GoodJob43:

Cheers
Tschachim 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 03, 2006, 04:36:37 PM
Thanks :)

I think the instrument panels now closely look as realistic as possible (for me) compared to the photos and videos of Rob & Swatch. By the way, I got some help from my brother so the circuit breakers look much better now :cool7777:

One of my next steps will be the LPD window...



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 05, 2006, 07:31:32 AM
Great update Movieman....I opened up orbiter and was confused for a second, I thought I was in the VC window for a second with the shading.   :D

Thanks for some great work.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: FordPrefect on August 08, 2006, 12:29:13 PM
Would somebody mind uploading some screenies of Moonwalkers work or some links to screenies. I cannot update my cvs files, nor I can open the bitmaps at sourceforge here at work... damn :awwcrap4253:
Anybody? Thanks! :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 08, 2006, 02:25:00 PM
I'm going to open a thread which shows current status of all CSM and LEM panel graphics (it'll be updated frequently of course). Not full resolution but all the stuff put together on one graphic. Some parts well be shown in full resolution ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 08, 2006, 02:59:10 PM
Place it in Modelling since modelling also includes Artwork/Texturing.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 08, 2006, 03:00:13 PM
By the way I've finished panel 101. It's located on the upper left corner of the lower gn equipment bay like it is in the real crew module. I just was going to implement the new panel & switches minutes ago as I remebered that we have 3 MFD's exactly on that area. I would like to suggest to put 2 of them on the center of panel 122 (vertically mounted) and the 3rd one just below the dsky.

Any other suggestions?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 08, 2006, 03:00:42 PM
Quote
Place it in Modelling since modelling also includes Artwork/Texturing.

Okay :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 08, 2006, 03:36:45 PM
Let it be writ....

MFD's must be moved to make way for Apollo Panels.  "And NASA said.. 'begone foul, historically inacurate MFD's, may thee take leave of our capsule!'... so it was written, so it was done."   :cool7777:

That GNBay Bitmap will have to be expanded anyway to include 100 as well (and in the future the different storage bins), so the MFD's can just be placed in the empty areas.  There are also empty areas immediately beside panel 101 and to the right of the GN panel, as well as the areas you mentioned.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 08, 2006, 03:54:21 PM
Okay the MFD's must be moved :D

Quote
That GNBay Bitmap will have to be expanded anyway to include 100 as well

Mhhh, but I was planning to add an additional panel to the left side of the GNbay (panel 100, 162, 163 and 306). Just right next to the right panel I'll add a new large panel which contains panels 250, 351, 352, 275, 276 & 227. And just below the right panel I'm planning to add a panel which contains panels 225, 226, 229 & 230. Any other Ideas? :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 08, 2006, 05:13:55 PM
Here is an outline of what I was considering....

(http://swatch.homeip.net/Orbiter/panelLayout.JPG)

Red lines define different Panels in Orbiter (Panel Groups).
Green lines define panel switching control. (follow them closely, they make more sense when you think in 3D)
Black numbers are *some, not necesarly all* Apollo panels included that "Panel Group"

Center "perspective" panel would be somewhat unrealistically blown out of proportion  so that multiple panels could be accomidated.  Would allow future control of LM hatch and other systems in the tunnel area below the Main Control Panel.

Optics Panels would be accessed by clicking on the respective eyepiece, which would call orbiter's API to change panels.

Suggestions, modifications and other such stuff welcome!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 08, 2006, 08:39:11 PM
I commited the latest changes. Panel 101 is available now. Only the DC VOLTS gauge doesn't work yet. That requires some more professional coding to connect it to the current systems to simulate the functions of panel 101. I also changed the SLEW switch on panel 13 to a three positions switch (I'll change the ALT SET knob too soon of course).

Your Idea about panel handling looks good Swatch :) I'll see what I can do. Maybe I have some more ideas about the LM HATCH center part...



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 08, 2006, 08:59:57 PM
The best part about that is that if you do it that way then I can just use your bitmaps to texture the CMVC.... I'll get you some outlines for the side and Lower Equipment Bays, that way they'll fit the mesh...also I'll send you what I have so far for reference.  Looking forward to hearing what you have planned for the LM Hatch!  :)

~Swatch


Title: Project Apollo - Instrument Panel Design
Post by: NoName on August 28, 2006, 06:46:06 PM
(http://www.german-spaceflight.com/panel_project/Preview/main_preview.jpg)

I'm proud to present the new and final design of our panels. I hope you all like it. I took some parts of the real thing and put them on our panels. This is the basic design and won't change anymore.

Here you get a full size preview of the final CSM main panel:

http://www.german-spaceflight.com/panel_project/Preview/csm_main_panel.jpg

Also the LEM got real rotaries

(http://www.german-spaceflight.com/panel_project/Preview/lem_panel.jpg)

 

 


Title: Re: Project Apollo - Instrument Panel Design
Post by: NoName on August 28, 2006, 06:52:44 PM
This is what I'm thinking about for the future of project apollo:

(http://www.german-spaceflight.com/panel_project/Preview/preview.jpg)

A few panels are not on their historical correct positions (like the 600's on the lower left hand side press panel). This may prevent the dll to get larger and larger because of drawing large background bitmaps to only put the 600's on it for example.

This is an idea only. Any suggestions or critics is welcome.


Title: Re: Project Apollo - Instrument Panel Design
Post by: Swatch on August 28, 2006, 07:44:44 PM
can you move panel 100 to the G/N bay (it'l require a bit of expansion, but it'll put it in the right location)  other than that, really like that layout!

I offer to correct switch locations if this is an issue. 

Also, if you only shift the bitmap horizontally to the right, then we won't have to change any of the vertical positions and the horizontal values will only be off by a set factor.

(http://swatch.homeip.net/Orbiter/panelchange1.JPG)


Title: Re: Project Apollo - Instrument Panel Design
Post by: NoName on August 28, 2006, 08:02:31 PM
Of course it's no problem to move panel 100 to the lower gn bay. Not a lot of work ;) I'll let you know when the latest graphics and the changes on the lower g/n bay are commited.   

I also would like to remove some switches on some panel background bitmaps in order to simulate the skylab csm's. But the problem is I can't figure out which switches exactly need to be removed on the background bitmap. Could somebody do a list of switches for that? And one question: what about the labels of the switches which aren't installed on the skylab csm's? How to remove that? 


Title: Re: Project Apollo - Instrument Panel Design
Post by: Swatch on August 28, 2006, 11:56:21 PM
additionally, and this is not a near-term necessity, I was wondering if at some point more of the hatch could be modeled (not just the window, but a larger more encompassing bitmap)  I know that the larger bitmap isn't always desired, but it would add to the realism more than the cropped hatch window....

Once again, this is priority -42 and everything else is priority 10 by comparison...just my musing mostly...


Title: Re: Project Apollo - Instrument Panel Design
Post by: Christophe on August 30, 2006, 05:40:38 AM
congratulations Moonwalker! :ThumbsUp432: :) :ThumbsUp432: :)
Your new panel is definitely wonderfull!
I love it  :roll:


Title: Re: Project Apollo - Instrument Panel Design
Post by: Zachstar on September 02, 2006, 11:17:20 PM
The adaption of the real photos to the project is very nice and very much helps to improve the realism! I thank you!  :yes77:


Title: Re: Project Apollo - Instrument Panel Design
Post by: Tschachim on September 10, 2006, 02:51:13 PM
Hi Moonwalker,

the panel preview looks outstanding and we'll get a lot of new panels, that's really great! :) :)  :ThumbsUp432:

While working on the SPS I found a small typo on MDC-3: The unit at the top of the SPS propellant tank temperature gauge should read °F, not %.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Project Apollo - Instrument Panel Design
Post by: NoName on September 12, 2006, 05:14:27 PM
Quote
The unit at the top of the SPS propellant tank temperature gauge should read °F,

Should be fixed within seconds ;)

By the way, sorry for the delay of my work at the moment. I had to reinstall windows some days ago and I lost all the project apollo graphics. But don't be shocked, I got a copy on CD before formatting my hard drives ;) But the CD doesn't work properly yet and I don't know the reason for that :( I got the most important main graphics recovered (the main and side panels of the LEM and CSM and all window views) so I didn't really lost a bitmap. Now I only have to redo some small bitmaps like switches, which I can get back from the basic panels. In future I should get a backup on my brothers FTP server too I guess ;) 

Progress continues as well at this weekend. And Tschachim, it's more than great to read that you are working on the SPS. Can't wait to see all the stuff working combined with the lates graphics :)


Title: Re: Project Apollo - Instrument Panel Design
Post by: Tschachim on September 17, 2006, 05:02:59 PM
Hi Moonwalker,

I hope you solved your computer problems and the new graphics are coming along nicely.
I can't wait to see all these panels!  :Excited432:  :)

Meanwhile I would like to report another small typo. The text on the SPS QUANTITY - OXID UNBAL meter, the white round gauge below the SPS fuel percent indicators, currently reads:

INCR
LBSx
1000 FCR


and it should read

INCR
LBS x100
DECR


Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: Project Apollo - Instrument Panel Design
Post by: NoName on September 18, 2006, 04:35:21 PM
Okay I'll fix it too Tschachim.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 21, 2006, 09:53:17 AM
Well, after the successful recovering of all my grahpics :D and after finishing the final updates I started the implementation of the final graphics tonight. I noticed that the corresponding switches for the skylab csm panels are removed already (in the code). So I'll delete the background bitmaps too. But what about the labels of these switches? Some labels have to disappear too. Any idea how to do? 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 22, 2006, 09:14:35 PM
Final Graphics Update complete! 

The new panels are up and runnning. I hope that everything works fine. For me it does. Tschachim, I also updated the direct o2 rotary on panel 7. It now has 7 positions instead of only 4 (7 because of the current rotary switch classes). It can be rotated 180° at 7 positions (330° 0° 30° 60° 90° 120° & 180°). 

The next update will be the extension of the left panels (the whole stuff just below the pressurization controls) and the panel just below the main panel (hatch area).

We also have a lot of unused graphics in our code which aren't used anymore. I would like to get permission to delete them ;) Also some of the newer bitmaps are not in use from now on. Circuit breaker bitmap is the same on CSM and LEM now also the two and threeposswitches using the same bitmaps on CSM and LEM.     

Standing by for more news guys, progress will accelerate within the next few weeks (christmas is comming soon and I want to finish the whole apollo graphics stuff) :cool7777:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 22, 2006, 09:18:34 PM
By the way, the 180° rotation of the direct o2 switch is only optical (in the code it's 330° to 180°) ;) Diagonal panels can be very confusing for programming and drawing. 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 22, 2006, 09:33:42 PM
Movieman, I deleted the following switches from the main panel bitmap for the skylab csm:

- UPTLM IU
- SIVB/LEM SEP
- SII/SIVB LV STAGE
- XLUNAR

Let me know if there is more to delete...



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on September 23, 2006, 08:12:17 AM
Hi Moonwalker!
Thanks for your huge work :ThumbsUp432:
May be a silly question: is CVS update sufficient to get the new panel or should I work my behind off to compile new modules?
I'm so lazy... :wink:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 23, 2006, 10:39:59 AM
Well you have to compile new modules if you want to see the new panels working ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on September 23, 2006, 10:52:37 AM
Yes, more informations about compiling the modules can be found here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=555.msg6301#msg6301

Hey Moonwalker, the new panels are looking absolutely outstanding, almost like photos, many many thanks for that!  :ThumbsUp432:  :) :) :)

I already made the necessary changes for the Direct O2 valve, but it will take some time until I can commit them, my local copy has already changed a lot because of my new SPS stuff.

... and I have another small "change request": Could you make the G&N panel a little bit wider on the left side, left of panel 101? Then I could move the MFDs from the center of the panel back to the left side, left of panel 101?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on September 23, 2006, 11:44:54 AM
Or just add Panel 100 where it should go and then it'll open up the space above 100 for MFD locations.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on September 23, 2006, 11:51:55 AM
Yeah, and we would get the IMU power switch, that sounds great! :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 23, 2006, 11:58:49 AM
Quote
Could you make the G&N panel a little bit wider on the left side, left of panel 101?

Yeah that's on my "to do list" already ;) I'll commit some more stuff soon together with panel 100 on the lower gn panel and of course free space for the MFD's.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on September 23, 2006, 05:23:55 PM
I merged the panel thread of the modeler forum into this topic, I think one panel thread is better. I hope this is fine for all... :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on September 23, 2006, 05:30:52 PM
I was actually thinking that all bitmap and similar resource related development threads should be in Modelling when I told Moonwalker to make that one, but if you think it's better to be here, I can understand that too.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on September 23, 2006, 06:37:08 PM
And is it a way to enlarge the MFD quite a bit?
Thanks for my 40 years old eyes!  :worried34534:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: BigDAS on September 23, 2006, 08:49:01 PM
Only 40?  :shock:
How about using External MFD and resizing the window?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on September 25, 2006, 09:27:49 AM
Hi Moonwalker,

I'm enjoying the great new panel graphics, but there's one issue I would like to discuss, it looks like that the rotary switches are a little bit bright at least compared to some CSMs, here is a picture of the Apollo 13 panel, as you can see the rotaries have almost the same color as the panel background:

(http://history.nasa.gov/ap08fj/pics/hgacont.jpg)

Here is a picture of the Apollo 10 panel 7, the rotaries are indeed a little bit brighter than the panel background, but it looks like not that much as in your latest panel graphics:

(http://nassp.sf.net/images/temp/Rotary1.jpg)

What do you think?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 25, 2006, 11:58:33 AM
Well now it's getting interesting :) It seems that different rotaries were used, or the colour difference depends on the photos, or NASA installed other rotaries on the cm's in the museums.

The new rotaries we now use on our panels are original taken from the photos of swatch and Rob. I think it's a skylab cm.

But now I'm not sure if they were white, silver (without any paint) or painted like the panel. Just have a look:

(http://www.hogya.com/images/cm_knob.jpg)

(http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a16/ap16-S72-36169.jpg)

(http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a16/ap16-S72-36145.jpg)

(http://swatch.homeip.net/capsule/1000217.JPG)

For me our new rotaries looking great. But it's absolutely no problem if you or others don't like them. I could do new rotaries but I would need a good and realistic photo again ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 25, 2006, 12:09:07 PM
Found another good photo:

(http://ranger.befunk.com/pics/latest/Coast%20with%20Mom-Images/189.jpg)

(http://www.apollosaturn.com/modeling/cmphotos/f132301x.JPG)

(http://www.apollosaturn.com/modeling/cmphotos/f60703x.JPG)

(http://www.apollosaturn.com/modeling/cmphotos/f60902x.JPG)

Mhhh seems the most were silver. What do you think?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on September 25, 2006, 12:34:22 PM
[Fixed the 2nd picture in my last post]

Yes, it looks like Apollo 13 has the "darkest" rotaries I can find (and I found it at first, so this is why I posted at all). On that Apollo 10 picture they look quite "silver" for me, too:

(http://nassp.sf.net/images/temp/Rotary2.jpg)

So for me the current version is fine, sorry for annoying! :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 25, 2006, 12:38:52 PM
Well I also found some nice inflight videos of the apollo 10 crew module. The rotaries seem to appear white/silver. Can't figure out exactly:

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/video/apollo/apollo10/mpg/onbclip06.mpg

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/video/apollo/apollo10/mpg/onbclip07.mpg

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/video/apollo/apollo10/mpg/onbclip08.mpg

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/video/apollo/apollo10/mpg/onbclip09.mpg




Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on September 25, 2006, 12:50:52 PM
Yeah, sometimes they seem to appear darker, but that seems to be because of the poor lighting conditions and the hard contrast in the CSM.

Thanks for posting these clips, never saw them before! :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 25, 2006, 12:54:03 PM
Quote
Yes, it looks like Apollo 13 has the "darkest" rotaries I can find (and I found it at first, so this is why I posted at all)


Hehe, as I started to redraw the most panel elements I was confused too as I noticed on a lot of photos that the rotaries seem to be white/silver instead of grey like the panels. Didn't know that too before. So my decision was to use the great high res photos of swatch and Rob (and the phantastic quick time videos) for reference. It was the only photography I could use.

Quote
So for me the current version is fine, sorry for annoying!

No problem! ;) Maybe I can find a better photo and change them to the silver look but if you think the current version is fine I continue using them...

Quote
Thanks for posting these clips, never saw them before!


Me too. I love to see the old stuff working "again" ;) You'll love that one (look how close our DSKY looks like the real one):

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/video/apollo/apollo11/mpg/apollo11_dlclip05.mpg

 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 25, 2006, 01:00:13 PM
Our DSKY doesn't only look like the real one, it also seem to work and to lighting up like the real DSKY. Phantastic work of coding the stuff! :cool7777:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on September 25, 2006, 01:05:47 PM
No problem! ;) Maybe I can find a better photo and change them to the silver look but if you think the current version is fine I continue using them...

Hard to tell, if you can find a better photo, the silver look would be perfect!

Quote
Me too. I love to see the old stuff working "again" ;) You'll love that one (look how close our DSKY looks like the real one): http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/video/apollo/apollo11/mpg/apollo11_dlclip05.mpg

That one I know and it's really a great one! It's showing V35 "lamp test" and yes, you get exactly the same with the VAGC, but it's not our coding, the original AGC software controls the lights. :cool7777:
Zachstar even did an Avatar gif from that (thanks Zachstar :)):

(http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7489/csmdskyov0.gif)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on September 25, 2006, 03:26:29 PM
I can vouch for 3 apollo capsules (1 by touch and two by vision) that they are indeed a white color, they are painted with a thick paint almost like a protective coating, my guess would be that you'd want to avoid bare metal for fear of static electricity, etc.  They definately don't look like the ones in that photograph of the Apollo 13 panel.  Remember that at the Kansas Cosmodrome, they have a tendency to restore craft (which is absolutely great!), but until recently, their restorations haven't necessarly been entirely accurate.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on September 25, 2006, 03:38:55 PM
Well I also found some nice inflight videos of the apollo 10 crew module. The rotaries seem to appear white/silver. Can't figure out exactly:

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/video/apollo/apollo10/mpg/onbclip06.mpg

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/video/apollo/apollo10/mpg/onbclip07.mpg

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/video/apollo/apollo10/mpg/onbclip08.mpg

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/video/apollo/apollo10/mpg/onbclip09.mpg




ya know what really bugs me about those videos..... the interior doesn't match the interior shown in the Apollo 10 module shown here....

http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10441053&wwwflag=2&imagepos=59


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 25, 2006, 07:14:42 PM
Quote
I can vouch for 3 apollo capsules (1 by touch and two by vision) that they are indeed a white color

That's good to know. Then we can continue using the current rotaries I'd guess...

Quote
the interior doesn't match the interior shown in the Apollo 10 module shown here....

What's the difference?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on September 25, 2006, 07:29:11 PM
check out the couches and their misc. fittings.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: BigDAS on September 25, 2006, 11:11:48 PM
So, maybe they changed hardware with each new build. Stands to reason that knobs and switchs can become suseptable to wear and breakage after a time, particulaly with the punishment they take in general usage. Metallic switches to plastic to some other material.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on September 26, 2006, 02:22:26 AM
Quote
check out the couches and their misc. fittings.

I know that's there is a market for "space parts" that have really flown into the space. May be the original couches have been removed and sold (or given in another museum) and be replaced by other non original couches.
So it may be the Apollo 10 CM but that doesn't guarantee that all the parts are the original one.
About 12 years ago, the only Apollo capsule I saw in my life was the Apollo 13 one at Le Bourget museum, near Paris. I remember the CM was absolutely empty; no panel, neither couches nor equipment.
After the Ron Howard film, this capsule was back to the USA for advertising. I bet that it was "rebuild" with some non original parts...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 26, 2006, 12:14:14 PM
Well I think it's normal that some interior equipments are removed after about 40 years of shipping the hardware to different museums. In my point of view NASA should have left all CM's like they were after the missions instead of cut them up like old airplanes :awwcrap4253: 

But the most important things we need to know can be seen in inflight videos of the real missions. So for me it's good to know the colour of the rotaries and that is a white look :wink: 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on September 27, 2006, 02:36:18 PM
Hi Moonwalker!
've just updated cvs with new modules and seen your new panel for the first time. It's absolutely beautiful! :) :roll: :Excited432: :ThumbsUp432:

concerning the rotary switches my wife said she see them as "pearly" :D
Well I don't know wether they wey were realy pearly in the CM or not, I just can say for my own they are great and look like incredibly realistic!

Very nice work!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 29, 2006, 09:05:41 PM
Well, just some news about the current progress of the CSM panels :)

At the moment i'm working on panel 100, 162, 163 & 180. They'll be included on the lower equipment bay panel which is resized now. Let me know what you think about it...

(http://nasa-virtual.com/Project%20Apollo/Instrument%20Panels/panel100.jpg)

Don't worry about the blank background. Still a work in progress.

Depending on some photos by Swatch I decided to draw the labels and lists too:

(http://nasa-virtual.com/Project%20Apollo/Instrument%20Panels/labels.jpg)

(http://swatch.homeip.net/capsule/1000212.JPG)

I also updated the CM tunnel hatch on the main panel. You now see the cover of the hatch:

(http://nasa-virtual.com/Project%20Apollo/Instrument%20Panels/csm_panel.jpg)

Maybe it would be possible to "animate" the tunnel hatch which allows to remove the cover, open the hatch and finally to enter the LEM by simply clicking on the tunnel (has anybody a good photo of it?). But at the moment the MFD's avert this feature...

By the way, I'll commit a complete cm hatch too (for EVA's). One bitmap which shows the closed hatch and another one which shows the hatch opened.

I'll commit the new stuff as soon as the lower equipment bay is finished. I hope to get the job done still this year :D

Cheers,

Moonwalker


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 30, 2006, 09:10:51 PM
I managed to use parts of the real lower equipment bay. So the background of our lower equipment bay will look like this (and the other upcoming panels too in future)...

(http://nasa-virtual.com/Project%20Apollo/Instrument%20Panels/100lower.jpg)

(http://swatch.homeip.net/capsule/1000211.JPG)

I removed some aging from the labels (dirt, scar...) because our CM's aren't about 30 years old ;)

Cheers,

Moonwalker



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: FordPrefect on December 31, 2006, 08:41:28 AM
Wow... this looks very very nice, Moonwalker!  :ThumbsUp432: ...seeing these screenshots and those photos, I finally realize how complex the CSM cockpit really is! In respect of this fact, I am in totally awe of your graphical work and also to all you talented coders here. Simply stunning. I haven't dealt a lot with VAGCC, but I am looking forward to get into this in the future. Keep it up!  :yes77:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 31, 2006, 09:43:32 AM
Thanks FordPrefect :cool7777: Of course the CM is very complex but soon you'll be able to access each instrument panel of it... The background bitmaps also could be used for the virtual cockpit view which will look phantastic :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on December 31, 2006, 01:14:22 PM
Oh trust me, I'm waiting with baited breath for these....the VC is looking great, but its lacking textures in a lot of places. I'm rather slow at making them though, so getting these will be great!

Additionally, when filling in the VC's other textures, it helps to have the textures so that I can cut and paste together missing textures.  Many parts of the CM have recurring objects that I am unable to draw, but Moonwalker can and puts them into panels which I can then take and put into new textures.

Not out of impatience, but more out of scheduling needs, how long do you think these new panels will take Moonwalker?  If they're pretty close, then I'll finish up a few things I need to do in preperation for them in the VC, but if they're still a week or two off, I'll keep modelling new parts in the VC.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: apolloman on December 31, 2006, 03:09:14 PM
Well, just some news about the current progress of the CSM panels :)

At the moment i'm working on panel 100, 162, 163 & 180. They'll be included on the lower equipment bay panel which is resized now. Let me know what you think about it...

(http://nasa-virtual.com/Project%20Apollo/Instrument%20Panels/panel100.jpg)

Don't worry about the blank background. Still a work in progress.

Depending on some photos by Swatch I decided to draw the labels and lists too:

(http://nasa-virtual.com/Project%20Apollo/Instrument%20Panels/labels.jpg)

(http://swatch.homeip.net/capsule/1000212.JPG)

I also updated the CM tunnel hatch on the main panel. You now see the cover of the hatch:

(http://nasa-virtual.com/Project%20Apollo/Instrument%20Panels/csm_panel.jpg)

Maybe it would be possible to "animate" the tunnel hatch which allows to remove the cover, open the hatch and finally to enter the LEM by simply clicking on the tunnel (has anybody a good photo of it?). But at the moment the MFD's avert this feature...

By the way, I'll commit a complete cm hatch too (for EVA's). One bitmap which shows the closed hatch and another one which shows the hatch opened.

I'll commit the new stuff as soon as the lower equipment bay is finished. I hope to get the job done still this year :D

Cheers,

Moonwalker

Hello Moonwalker, Merry Christmas and Happy New year for you:

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9648/cmhatchgn7.th.jpg) (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cmhatchgn7.jpg)

and

(http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7456/01ei4.th.jpg) (http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=01ei4.jpg)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 31, 2006, 03:23:20 PM
Quote
Not out of impatience, but more out of scheduling needs, how long do you think these new panels will take Moonwalker?

The 2D lower equipment bay should be finished within the next days. I still have to draw the center and right part and to include panels 162, 163 & 180 (but only 3 switches all in all). Now I know where panel 162 is located. But I can't figure out where panels 163 & 180 have to be placed exactly...

I'll also update the background of the left and right panels which can also be used for the VC after the update. All other upcoming panels will show the real background of the CM interior too (at least I try to do so depending on drawings & photos).

Cheers,

Moonwalker


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 31, 2006, 03:36:00 PM
Thx Apolloman :)

The hatch only is visible after removing the cover which is on front of the CM tunnel. I forgot the correct appellation of the tunnel cover (which has two handles, one on the left and one on the right side). The old hatch bitmap didn't look realistic so I decided to draw the tunnel cover (not the white pouch). Maybe we'll add the possibility of removing the cover and opening the hatch in future...

Cheers,

Moonwalker 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: apolloman on December 31, 2006, 03:53:46 PM
Thx Apolloman :)

The hatch only is visible after removing the cover which is on front of the CM tunnel. I forgot the correct appellation of the tunnel cover (which has two handles, one on the left and one on the right side). The old hatch bitmap didn't look realistic so I decided to draw the tunnel cover (not the white pouch). Maybe we'll add the possibility of removing the cover and opening the hatch in future...

Cheers,

Moonwalker

Hi Moonwalker , I dont understand about which hatch you want to speak ???
to my knowledge it there the CM hatcth and its protection and then that of the LM

excuse me if I badly understood because my English is rusted lol


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on December 31, 2006, 06:38:13 PM
Quote
Not out of impatience, but more out of scheduling needs, how long do you think these new panels will take Moonwalker?

The 2D lower equipment bay should be finished within the next days. I still have to draw the center and right part and to include panels 162, 163 & 180 (but only 3 switches all in all). Now I know where panel 162 is located. But I can't figure out where panels 163 & 180 have to be placed exactly...

I'll also update the background of the left and right panels which can also be used for the VC after the update. All other upcoming panels will show the real background of the CM interior too (at least I try to do so depending on drawings & photos).

Cheers,

Moonwalker

 :D


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on December 31, 2006, 10:01:50 PM
WOW... incredible   :Excited432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on January 03, 2007, 01:32:09 PM
Thanks Moonwalker!
A beautifull work, as usual!
Take the advantage to wish you and all other people in the forum an very happy new year.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on January 05, 2007, 08:24:44 PM
Thanks for the compliments :wink: Still a work in progress but finished soon.

Another preview...

(http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/gn_lower_equip_bay.jpg)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on March 07, 2007, 10:31:39 AM
I'm just right now committing the latest version of our CM main panel. The following changes were done:


- I changed the LV/SPS IND "DC" label to the Greek "alpha" on panel 1
- the two FCSM switches on panel 1 are removed now and replaced by the small round metall caps
- the old tunnel hatch is replaced by the new hatch cover and handles now
- I also corrected the scale of the SPS PRPLNT TANK TEMP and PRESS HE scales on panel 3


The next update will be the implementation of the new lower equipment bay and updated side panels too (the background will be adapted to the style of the lower equipment bay in preparation for the VC usage) 

 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on March 07, 2007, 11:42:39 AM
... and the RCS TRNFR switch is fixed, too, thanks a lot!   :ThumbsUp432:

Two last issues:
The LV "alpha"/SPS Pc indicator also needs a Greek alpha, like the switch you just fixed.
And could you change the FUEL CELL H2 and O2 FLOW meter scales like the SPS scales, too? That would be really great!

By the way: I'm thinking about implementing the EMS dV stuff for the SCS dV thrust mode of the SPS (I'll open a topic for that soon), but currently I have the problem that I don't understand how the dV/EMS SET INCR/DECR switch works or even really looks like, the AOH talks about a "five-position rocker switch". I do know that it is used to increase/decrease the dV value, but I don't know if this is a kind of thumbwheel like in the ASCP or a kind of "mini-joystick" like many mobile phones have. Perhaps the panel experts here could enlighten me?  :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on March 07, 2007, 12:42:38 PM
Ups, yes I forgot to mention the RCS TRNFR switch ;) Of course I'll change the FUEL CELL H2 and O2 FLOW meter scales too.

I also often thought about the dV/EMS SET INCR/DECR switch. I think it was a kind of tumbler switch. But I only "think" so ;) As soon as we know exactly the kind of switch, I'll update it to let it look more realistic...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: dseagrav on March 07, 2007, 04:47:08 PM
My guess - It looks like the split alt/master switch of an airplane, but has a center position too.

1|2
-5-
3|4

That's just from looking at the picture though.



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on March 07, 2007, 10:03:22 PM
maybe I should see if I can make another trip up to Glenn Research Center and get my hands on the Command Module again...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: jungzimm on March 08, 2007, 11:18:46 AM

I also often thought about the dV/EMS SET INCR/DECR switch. I think it was a kind of tumbler switch. But I only "think" so ;) As soon as we know exactly the kind of switch, I'll update it to let it look more realistic...


Just a guess but to me it looks like a rocker switch springloaded to center (neutral) with two detents for increase and two for decrease with possiblly different increments for each detent.  e.g. push to first detent to increase by 10 and all the way in to increase by 1.  Then the same for the decrease part of the rocker.  Doesn't look like a split switch from the picture.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on March 14, 2007, 11:54:01 AM
Yeah, I think jungzimm is right, mainly I was confused by the term "rocker switch" (no native speaker :ashamed45523:).
A 3-position rocker switch looks like this:

(http://www.intertrade.com.cn/upphoto/131/2022006510.jpg)

The five position dV/EMS SET switch has two up and two down positions, the first up and down positions provide a "soft stop" (slow slew of the dV/Range counter or the EMS tape) and can be further depressed to "hard stop" up and down positions (fast slew). The switch isn't split. Some cars have these switches for the window-lift motors to move the windows while the switch is depressed to soft stop and to completely open/close them when the switch is fully depressed.

I'm going to implement that similar to the ASCP thumbwheels, left mouse button is hard stop/fast slew, right mouse button is soft stop/slow slew. Moonwalker, it would be great if you do a bitmap for this switch with the 5 positions as explained above, meanwhile there will be no "switch animation" but just a clickable area on panel background.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on March 16, 2007, 01:59:09 AM
Quote
Moonwalker, it would be great if you do a bitmap for this switch with the 5 positions as explained above, meanwhile there will be no "switch animation" but just a clickable area on panel background.

I'll do it of course ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on March 21, 2007, 01:34:37 PM
Hi guys,

rather difficult to decide to post in the modeling thread or in this thread. But since the post is related to both, programming & modeling stuff, I decided to post it here. The LEB is now finished at 99%. 1% depends on a few letterings and labels. I can't find any detailed photos of it (for example panel 120 and some labels of the lower part of the LEB). But since Swatch is talking about visting the CM again, he maybe could take another detailed photos of the LEB labels :cool7777:

Tomorrow I'll start to implement the compete LEB. The few missing labels can be added later...

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1137335/b1d.jpg)

The small chains of panel 100 & 163 look a little bit like chains of plugs in a bath room (washing-basin or bathtub). But don't worry, the chains are indeed taken from the real CSM (actually from the oxygen control panel) :D

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1137336/8d8.jpg)

The next stuff as I already announced are the side panels. I found out that it would be good to add the CB panels 275, 276, 278 & 227 to the right panels, where they're also take place in the real CSM:

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1137337/486.jpg)

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1082996/5ee.jpg)

Panels 350, 351, 352, 375, 376, 377, 378 379, 380 & 382 will be included on the left cabin press panel, wich will be extended downward to add the whole left CSM side wall (also useful for the wonderful CMVC)...

Hope you like the ideas and agree with that. If not let me know...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on March 21, 2007, 06:00:58 PM
Wooooo! Very impressive! :)
Can't wait!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on March 22, 2007, 10:30:19 PM
Graphical updates of the side panels completed, just to show you where the new switches/panels will take place...

New right hand side panels (227, 275, 276 & 278):

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1138318/4c2.jpg)

New left hand side panels (375 & 380):

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1138317/b20.jpg)

Stuff not committed yet. I'm going to do so within the following 24 hours ;)



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on March 23, 2007, 05:03:45 AM
Looks fantastic!  :ThumbsUp432: :) :)

I think I mentioned it already, so just in case you didn't do already, can you extend the width of these panels to 1680 pixel? The old ones were 1600, which isn't looking nicely on a 1680 wide screen display. That would be great!

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on March 23, 2007, 07:56:36 AM
Quote
I think I mentioned it already, so just in case you didn't do already, can you extend the width of these panels to 1680 pixel?

Yes you did. The panels you see above already inlude these extensions ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on March 23, 2007, 12:55:12 PM
Cool, thanks a lot!  :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on March 23, 2007, 10:16:03 PM
New panels committed!

I added the new LEB including panel 100 and 163. The only thing I noted is that the IMU switch on panel 100 doesn't work as it should do. The switch should be able to be in the upper position with the cuard closed, but it flips back...

The new side panels are committed too. But the new switches don't work yet. I'll add the new switches still this weekend.

Just sit back and enjoy the LEB ;) It takes a few seconds until you get access to it at the launch pad. I guess it depends on the workload because of the whole phantastic meshes at the Cape. Once in space, switching between the LEB and main panel shouldn't be a problem.

The next update, or lets say the next "new" panel will be the complete left CM side wall, including the oxygen press panel and so on...



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on March 24, 2007, 02:34:14 AM
*SNAG*  I'll be having fun with these I think...   :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on March 24, 2007, 09:01:59 AM
Hi Moonwalker,

thanks a lot for all your efforts, especially the G&N power switches and the O2 demand regulator with the suit circuit return valve are great, we already have the devices controlled by these switches, currently they are contolled automatically or with circiut brakers only, now we can enable them for realistic and manual operation.  :ThumbsUp432:

The only thing I noted is that the IMU switch on panel 100 doesn't work as it should do. The switch should be able to be in the upper position with the cuard closed, but it flips back...

Not too hard to fix, I cannot commit the fix, too much EMS stuff in my local version already, you need to change

GNPowerIMUSwitch.InitGuard   (259,  0, 36, 69, srf[SRF_SWITCHGUARDS], srf[SRF_BORDER_34x61], 180);

and

GNPowerIMUSwitch.Register(PSH, "GNPowerIMUSwitch", TOGGLESWITCH_DOWN, false);
GNPowerIMUSwitch.SetGuardResetsState(false);

Quote
It takes a few seconds until you get access to it at the launch pad.

No problem or delay here, but since I have a X1400, all panel related graphic problems vanished.  :)

Cheers
Tschachim



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on March 24, 2007, 10:54:58 AM
Quote
thanks a lot for all your efforts, especially the G&N power switches and the O2 demand regulator with the suit circuit return valve are great, we already have the devices controlled by these switches, currently they are contolled automatically or with circiut brakers only, now we can enable them for realistic and manual operation.


Hehe, yeah I also think it looks nice. As I started to draw it, I thought this could be hard to do so, but soon I noticed that it looks very well. The lever bitmap also is ready. I think I implement the stuff tonight (I can't wait to be able to depressurize the CM). And Thanks for posting the required lines for the IMU switch!

Quote
No problem or delay here, but since I have a X1400, all panel related graphic problems vanished.

Great! I noticed that at the moment I only have my standard ATI drivers installed. I think I should try the Catalyst Control Center... 

Quote
*SNAG*  I'll be having fun with these I think...

I can't wait to see the new CMVC ;) Sorry for the delay of the LEB.



Well, not much panels left yet for the CM: a few left side wall panels, right side wall (circuit breaker panels) and some stuff just around the tunnel hatch. So you know what you'll get next :D Then the graphical artwork for the 2D-CM should be done so far... 

Ah, and of course a nice hatch which can be opened for EVA after CM depress, will be available too ;) 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on March 24, 2007, 07:39:57 PM
I forgot to mention that the MFD's of the LEB are disabled at the moment. I don't know a good position yet. Maybe someone has a good idea ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on March 26, 2007, 04:43:24 AM
Wow... great job. SUPER.... very realistic


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on April 29, 2007, 08:18:23 AM
Hi Moonwalker,

I recreated the three split bitmaps of the main panel ("csm_main_left/middle/right_panel.bmp") from your new "csm_main_panel.bmp" bitmap and during that I noticed some small issues:

- The label in the SPS OXID UNBAL meter is broken again.
- The LV "alpha"/SPS Pc indicator also needs a Greek alpha, like the switch which is already fixed.

I fixed that already, but since you have the "master bitmaps" you probably want to change that there, too. I also noticed that the file size of csm_main_panel.bmp grew from 3 MB to 14 MB since your last commit, is that intentional?

And could you change the FUEL CELL H2 and O2 FLOW meter scales like the SPS scales, too? That would be really great!  :)

Thanks and Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on April 30, 2007, 04:17:16 PM
Quote
- The label in the SPS OXID UNBAL meter is broken again.
- The LV "alpha"/SPS Pc indicator also needs a Greek alpha, like the switch which is already fixed.

I fixed that already, but since you have the "master bitmaps" you probably want to change that there, too.


Oh oh. I didn't note that. Damn I always think: okay it's perfekt, no issues. But such instrument panels are way too complex to find out issues without any help from others :cool7777: Thanks for fixing that, and yes it's important for me to fix the master "edition".

Quote
I also noticed that the file size of csm_main_panel.bmp grew from 3 MB to 14 MB since your last commit, is that intentional?

Oh oh again :) Well, I think I've forgotten to reduce the size by changing the bitmaps from 24bit to Run Length Encoded compression before committing.

I'll correct all the things as well as the FUEL CELL H2 and O2 FLOW meter scales too, as soon as possible.

By the way, today I finally got an Nvidia 8800GTS graphics card :D I think, now the trip to the moon will be a very high frame rate pleasure using maximum settings...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on April 30, 2007, 04:22:39 PM
Thanks a lot and congratulations to your new gear!  :)

EDIT: Found another one: The label on the SPS PRPLNT TANK TEMP meter should read F instead of %

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on May 27, 2007, 12:15:12 PM
The lower equipment bay got a few graphical updates. My brother added a few 3D graphics to the right side of the DSKY and above panel 120 (the left side will follow):

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1181665/2aa.jpg)

I'll commit the latest version soon, together with the requested changes by Tschachim. The update will also include the complete left side wall panels ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on May 27, 2007, 04:02:26 PM
Hey Moonwalker, I just finished using your LEB to make a texture for the CMVC, but it shouldn't be a problem to update with your new stuff.  Looking forward to your stuff for the left and right Equipment Bays!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on May 27, 2007, 04:07:08 PM
Hi Swatch,

by the way, during my mesh optimizations I also fixed a couple of bugs in the CM-Interior mesh (not committed yet). I was thinking about doing some changes to the VC, too, but it looks like you're working on it, so I better don't touch it?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on May 27, 2007, 05:00:57 PM
It doesn't matter to me if you mess with what is in the repository.  What I'm doing is a complete overhaul using Moonwalker's Graphics, as well as pictures from my trip to Glenn.  Every part in the new mesh is being built from scratch, and as such, almost every single unnecessary triangle is being deleted as I go.  If you can't see it, there's not a full triangle there.   :cool7777:  When I finally do finish it, the CM will have a new set of textures that are fairly extensive.  But in the meantime, feel free to do whatever you want to what is in the repository, Those are in a finished form (as far as that version of the CMVC is concearned). 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on May 27, 2007, 05:11:25 PM
OK, that's fine for me, I won't touch CM-VC.msh. But if you are going to change any other mesh you MUST re-import the mesh file from CVS after a CVS Update, otherwise we'd loose all the performance enhancements and bug fixes of the last months!

And please post here if you want to modify a mesh the next few weeks because I'm changing almost every mesh because of performance and didn't commit them yet, because I need to combine that with new beta modules because of the changed animated mesh group numbers. But hopefully I'll have that ready really soon...

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on May 28, 2007, 02:29:30 AM
Don't worry, I'm not going to be modifying any of the meshes in the repository for at least a month or so.  I finished all my modifications prior to starting work on the new VC.  So right now, the only things that I have my fingers in are the VC mesh and the related textures.  If you could tell me any performance modifications you're making, I'll see if I can apply them to the new VC along the way.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on June 07, 2007, 09:17:53 AM
So right now, the only things that I have my fingers in are the VC mesh and the related textures.

:oops: Sorry, I forgot to mention that I changed the textures. I switched the main and side panels to the new bitmaps, which shouldn't be any problem, but I also changed the panel 122 texture to fix the G&N bay of the CM Interior mesh (not the VC). The G&N bay in the current VC is broken (mirrored) anyway, but you probably need to use a different texture for the new VC. Having said that I wonder if it's better using different, low res textures for the CM Interior (not the VC) anyway, perhaps one 2048x2048 texture for the CM Interior and use the high res textures for the VC only?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on June 08, 2007, 02:49:31 AM
that's the plan! :ThumbsUp432:

Once I get the high-res textures, I'll just condense them down to smaller, probably 512x512 textures.

I'll also take the new VC mesh and reduce poly's until it's a good interior mesh.

And yes, there will be completely new textures for the CM-VC.  Right now I'm looking at maybe 4-5 2048x2048 textures (mostly panels) and a couple smaller ones (512x512 and 256x256).  I liked what martins said about offering high-res and low res texture options for the VC, so I'll look into that.  The biggest problem with low-res is the inability to read labels and such on the panels.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on June 08, 2007, 04:55:48 AM
I liked what martins said about offering high-res and low res texture options for the VC, so I'll look into that. The biggest problem with low-res is the inability to read labels and such on the panels.

I fear a VC in which one can't read the labels is quite useless, so I don't know if a low res VC makes sense. For the interior this is not necessary, of course, but as far as I know one big texture (2048x2048) leads to better performance that multiple, small (512x512) textures. Anyway, let's wait until the new meshes are ready, then we'll see, many thanks for working on that!   :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on June 08, 2007, 07:24:07 AM
It's not entirely useless; we could still use decent resolution textures for things like the AGC displays and small ones for the rest, so you could at least do basic stuff in the VC and go back to the main panel for the switches.

Though, frankly, I can probably find about half the switches with no labels now anyway :).


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on June 08, 2007, 02:26:37 PM
Ok, this is directed toward Moonwalker.

If I gave you some basic outlines of panels, and the pictures of what they look like, do you think you could modify them to match your style of panel?

I can do the basic layup, but I'm having trouble replicating your style everytime, even with copy and paste.

Also, what program do you use for your drawing? and does it read *.pspimage files?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 08, 2007, 09:45:48 AM
Quote
Ok, this is directed toward Moonwalker.

If I gave you some basic outlines of panels, and the pictures of what they look like, do you think you could modify them to match your style of panel?

I can do the basic layup, but I'm having trouble replicating your style everytime, even with copy and paste.

Also, what program do you use for your drawing? and does it read *.pspimage files?

I'm very busy at the moment, so sorry that I didn't participate in Project Apollo the last weeks.

I think I could modify you pictures (at least try to do so) if I have time again. I think I'm back in late summer :sorry345:

For simple graphic artwork (copy and paste, filling nasa drawings with paint...) I simply use windows paint :wink: For editing the final panels I use Jasc Paint Shop. I think Paint Shop reads *.pspimage files. 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on July 08, 2007, 10:19:42 PM

I'm very busy at the moment, so sorry that I didn't participate in Project Apollo the last weeks.

I think I could modify you pictures (at least try to do so) if I have time again. I think I'm back in late summer :sorry345:

For simple graphic artwork (copy and paste, filling nasa drawings with paint...) I simply use windows paint :wink: For editing the final panels I use Jasc Paint Shop. I think Paint Shop reads *.pspimage files. 

Ahh good... no rush if you're busy but I mainly wanted to do some rough work, then send it to you for final cleaning.  I'm glad to hear you use Jasc Paint Shop, since that is what pspimage is from....I too use it, and love it!

I'm working on the panels immediately below the main display panel, but not in the tunnel (not really panels, more just filler texture).  I'm also about to start on the Right equipment bay which I have nothing really to start from, so it'll be mostly from scratch...at least with the left bay I have a photograph that I've used in the past to start from.

When I get them done, I'll post them up here and you can get to them whenever your time allows...in the meantime I'll just use my roughs to work on the VC, that way we can work at our own pace.  I completely understand being busy, I'd love to be working on so much more than the VC at the moment, but it's all I can do to just keep making progress, and I'm about to be sent to work at NASA Glenn for a month and a half, which is a mixed blessing.   I'll be very close to, and probably get more photos of the CM there, but I'll be barebones and that means probably not having the computer with my main ProjectApollo stuff. 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 09, 2007, 12:03:08 AM
I love Jasc Paint Shop too :) I hope I can let your rough work look the way you would like to see it...

Great that you work on the VC, I really love it. I also would like to work on more stuff (especially on the LEM) but time doesn't allow to do so at the moment. Hope you can get some more photos of the CM. Especially some labels of the LEB are still missing on our panels ;)   


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on July 09, 2007, 06:28:29 AM
For the LEB. Check these link for the moment

http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10441029&wwwflag=2&imagepos=393#RelatedImages


Watch next. I did'nt know that the window has a cover like that ;)
http://www.ehartwell.com/Apollo17/BlueMarbleGeometry.htm

See next also
http://www.apollosaturn.com/modeling/a9cm/a9cm.htm

See next also
http://www.ehartwell.com/Apollo17/images/DSE_5.gif

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/diagrams/ad010.gif


BIG ONE (VERY INTERRESTING)
http://history.nasa.gov/ap16fj/pics/p122_optics_control_l.JPG

The stowage location
http://history.nasa.gov/ap16fj/pics/cm_stowage.gif


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 17, 2007, 10:14:33 AM
Hi Moonwalker,

I just want to mention that I changed the "csm_cabin_press_panel.bmp" in CVS. I removed the lock lever of the lower cabin pressure relief valve because it's switchable now. It would be great if you can consider that in your next update.

...and just in case you have some time left, I'd be happy to have the "switch bitmaps" for the O2 demand regulator.  :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 03, 2007, 10:21:06 PM
Great Stuff :cool7777: I'll remember your changes when I start to work on the graphics again soon.

The switch bitmaps for the O2 demand regulator will be added too... ;)

Don't worry that you don't see any new stuff at the moment. I finally changed my hardware again (I now have an Intel Core Duo E6600 CPU) and I'm reconfiguring my hard drive and Project Apollo folders to prepare the re-pickup of my work...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on August 04, 2007, 08:25:34 AM
Hi Moonwalker,

good news! Congratulations to your new gear (you change your hardware quite frequently, do you?) and I'm looking forward to new cool panel graphics!  :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 04, 2007, 09:56:00 AM
O_o   Core2Duo... :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 04, 2007, 01:28:29 PM
Quote
Congratulations to your new gear (you change your hardware quite frequently, do you?)

Not really ;) But during the last month I was tired to adjust settings in orbiter and other programs to fit it to my old hardware. Now, there is almost no program which uses full capacity of my new system :cool7777: Also running Orbiter with highest settings and antialiasing just looks amazing and fluent. My new and "final!" system is: Asus P5N32-E SLI mainboard, 2GB RAM (OCZ), Intel Core2 Duo E6600 and still my Nvidia 8800GTS card. I think there shouldn't be any reason to update my hardware again soon :D I had an AMD ago during the last 3 month but it didn't make me happy. So Intel is the future for me...

Tonight I'm going to pick up my work again (the summer wasn't very hot yet although everybody talks about gloabl warming... and I bet this summer won't become hot no longer). My brohter has finished the 5 position switch bitmap for the EMS meanwhile ;) And I'll continue to finish the left side wall panel of the CSM at next. The next thing for me is an CVS checkout to see all your news :)

Stand by...   


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 10, 2007, 03:22:28 PM
I'm just right now working on a few fixes on the CM main instrument panel (LV labels, the SPS OXID UNBAL label and adding the final version of better looking velcro pads). And the size of the main panel bitmap will be reduced again by run length encoding. I also added a new delta v/EMS SET switch:

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1217605/c8c.jpg)

I'm going to committ the changes tonight. The new delta v/EMS SET switch will be found in the updated "ems_button.bmp". Positions from left to right are: upper left - upper right - neutral - lower left - lower right. I hope it will look like it is intended to look like...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on August 10, 2007, 05:18:41 PM
Great work!  :ThumbsUp432:

I'm going to committ the changes tonight.

I'm moving all bitmaps to a Bitmap subdirectory, so I fear you can't commit bitmaps at the moment. It'll be finished over the weekend, I'll post here: http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=1260.0

Cheers
Tschachim 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 10, 2007, 06:40:56 PM
Moving the bitmaps to a subdirectory is a great idea :ThumbsUp432: Makes it easier to find out special bitmaps without to scrabble in the code.

I'll continue my work on the left side wall as long as you are moving the files...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 10, 2007, 11:57:29 PM
Hey Moonwalker, I've gotten the go ahead to photograph the CM again, I'll be taking a digital camera with MUCH more storage room and best of all...a zoom lens!, so make a list of key points you want me to hit and of any key features you want me to focus on.  I might be able to get better shots of somethings this time if you want for photo-realism.

Like I said, no limit here on what you want me to take pictures of....I'll probably even get a second chance if I need some additional photos.


Working AT NASA really has its advantages!!! :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: bg114 on August 11, 2007, 12:59:05 AM

Hello,

Maybe this has been addressed before but shouldn't the gravity warning light on the EMS read .05g instead of 0.5g? (after all its supposed to go on when the spacecraft senses a deaccleration of 0.49 m/s^2)

It shows .05g in the Apollo Operations Handbook, maybe you could get a close up of the EMS.

Thank you.
Keep up the great work everyone.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: fmmueller on August 11, 2007, 09:34:51 AM
Hey Moonwalker, I've gotten the go ahead to photograph the CM again, I'll be taking a digital camera with MUCH more storage room and best of all...a zoom lens!, so make a list of key points you want me to hit and of any key features you want me to focus on.  I might be able to get better shots of somethings this time if you want for photo-realism.

Like I said, no limit here on what you want me to take pictures of....I'll probably even get a second chance if I need some additional photos.


Working AT NASA really has its advantages!!! :ThumbsUp432:

Neat, great news. :)
I just talked with Moonwalker about the panel graphics yesterday which could be improved to a more photo-realistic look, but for that, we would need more pictures of the CSM/LEM. It would be really great if you could take more photos. But for details, talk with Moonwalker about it.

The  v/EMS SET switch is not final, I will further work on it.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 11, 2007, 09:40:22 AM
Sadly, there aren't many LEM's out there anymore, and I only have access to the CM  (not many SMs out there either....in fact probably fewer SMs than LEMs), so CM interior is all I can give you.  Like I said though, any and all request will be honored, or at least attempted.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: fmmueller on August 11, 2007, 09:49:33 AM
Sadly, there aren't many LEM's out there anymore, and I only have access to the CM  (not many SMs out there either....in fact probably fewer SMs than LEMs), so CM interior is all I can give you.  Like I said though, any and all request will be honored, or at least attempted.

Ok, I think that's not a problem at all, because most of the textures from the CM can be changed and used for the LEM.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 11, 2007, 11:26:15 AM
Quote
Hey Moonwalker, I've gotten the go ahead to photograph the CM again, I'll be taking a digital camera with MUCH more storage room and best of all...a zoom lens!, so make a list of key points you want me to hit and of any key features you want me to focus on.  I might be able to get better shots of somethings this time if you want for photo-realism.

Like I said, no limit here on what you want me to take pictures of....I'll probably even get a second chance if I need some additional photos.


Working AT NASA really has its advantages!!!


Yeah, I wish I would work at NASA too :cool7777: Who wouldn't :D

Bascially we would need photos of the whole equipment bays, especially of the side walls for more details. And some labels of the LEB are missing at the moment. Would be really great to get detailed photos of it :ThumbsUp432:

Ah, one special: could you take high quality photos of all the windows from inside the CSM (front views)? Would be great to replace the current window graphics by real ones...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 11, 2007, 02:54:01 PM
Can do!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 11, 2007, 05:52:15 PM
Quote
Can do!

That's GREAT! This will finally complete our panels by full realism.

Can't wait to get detailed photos of the labels to complete the LEB ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: mikaelanderlund on August 12, 2007, 12:52:00 AM
Cool! I think the panel realism and the panel function is the most importing thing in NASSP :ThumbsUp432: :D.

Mikael


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 12, 2007, 02:03:46 AM
Keep in mind though that there won't be any "Full" shots of the equipment bays as there are couches in the way....but I plan on taking fairly extensive mosaics in order to get everything.  And hopefully, I'll be able to rig up an extension pole so the camera can go where I can't necessarly and probe the depths of the CM.

I'll ask kindly if I can actually get in, but I'm almost certain I'll recieve a no.  I'll also ask if I can get open some of the compartments, but again I bet its a no.

The good thing though is that they are very excited about doing this for me, so maybe we'll get lucky!

I'll try and do it this week (it'll have to be before Friday and probably Tues or Wed) but that depends on my ability to track down an extension.

You have until at least Tues. to make further requests....also, if anyone has contacts for other Apollo websites that would like certain shots, nows the time.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 12, 2007, 11:47:21 AM
Well, tell them that we're working on the most realistic Apollo Simulation all over the world (at least I don't know any comparable scientific Apollo Simulation), unless they know already, and you might get an "okay"... :ThumbsUp432: But I bet it'll be almost "no" :gloomy3353:

It's no problem if we don't get full shots of the bays. Now, the most important things are details of almost each part of the equipment bays like velcro pads, screws and labels. For full views I have a few small photos and I also use side views of some NASA drawings. But the details depend on your photos now ;)

For me the most amazing thing would be to get good quality photos of the interior windows. Would be great in Orbiter to look through "real" windows.

Maybe until Tuesday another request comes into my mind...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 12, 2007, 12:02:39 PM
Quote
Cool! I think the panel realism and the panel function is the most importing thing in NASSP.


I think so too. It's the basic key and my greatest dream for about 15 years now to get such an instrument panel based Apollo Simulation. I'm "over the moon" that Orbiter exists and that I met all the nice people and developers who develope and improve our simulation.

But I think another important thing should be nice exterior and interior (VC) graphics ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 14, 2007, 12:04:39 PM
Okay Swatch, meanwhile it is tuesday and I got another really important thing into my mind concerning your upcoming photo "session" at the John Glenn Research Center:

It would be phantastic if you could do good photos (sharp accuracy) of a rotation hand controller and an abort handle onboard the crew module. A front view would be good "if possible" like seen here: http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/Documents/LM-Panel-Sept1968.jpg

I don't know if they have a LEM mockup too at the John Glenn Center. Do they have one? I ask because Tschachim requestet a 3D looking hand controler of the LEM, to animate it and place it on the LPD window graphic...

But it's not a problem if we shouldn't get photos of a LEM hand controller. I think I could use your photos of the CM hand controllers also for the LEM, since they don't really look too much different ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 14, 2007, 02:53:33 PM
Alright, it looks like this'll have to be done next week, the guys over at the visitor's center have a tour group coming through tomorrow, and they actually apologized TO me for it, but I'll see about maybe Thursday.  They really want to see this done as much as we do I think.  They don't have anything LEM related, so it's a no-go on that, but I'll be sure to get some good shots of the controller though, at least as best as I can.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 14, 2007, 05:42:11 PM
Okay, no problem. Thanks a lot for your efforts. I'll be patient... :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on August 14, 2007, 06:05:57 PM
Alright, it looks like this'll have to be done next week, the guys over at the visitor's center have a tour group coming through tomorrow, and they actually apologized TO me for it, but I'll see about maybe Thursday.  They really want to see this done as much as we do I think.  They don't have anything LEM related, so it's a no-go on that, but I'll be sure to get some good shots of the controller though, at least as best as I can.

You want Photo of the LM.

Check this link

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/models/vault/LM%20Simulator

EDIT:There is another photo here

(http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/fob-sim2.jpg)



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 14, 2007, 06:23:18 PM
Hey, that's a nice link for reference.

Thanks :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: BigDAS on August 14, 2007, 09:52:49 PM
Nice basement!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 15, 2007, 11:34:04 AM
Alright, the date and time is set in stone.   3PM EST Monday, Aug 20th.   You have until then for any other requests.  Can't wait!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 15, 2007, 03:25:18 PM
Quote
Alright, the date and time is set in stone.   3PM EST Monday, Aug 20th.   You have until then for any other requests.  Can't wait!

Good News! Okay, here comes another request:

I'm just right now working on panel 351 and 352 on the left side wall. It would be great if you could manage to get good photos of that area/panels. I'm not sure if my version looks exactly like the real panel...

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1220446/828.jpg) 

I've taken the two water & glycol tank pressure rotaries as well as the tool storage receptacle from the real panel. But the only image I have looks different to the controls and displays pdf from NASA. Would be nice to see how the GSE ports look like ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on August 16, 2007, 08:04:28 AM
There are the Block II Oxygen Control Panel 351.

APOLLO 14 Oxygen Control Panel - switch tabs (toggled to the up or "OPEN" position) for Oxygen Regulator Assembly can be seen immediately to left of "Oxygen Control Panel" label*

(http://www.spaceaholic.com/beckcollection031.jpg)


(http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/143/p351ue4.jpg)

(http://history.nasa.gov/ap15fj/pics/panel351-352.gif)



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 16, 2007, 11:44:49 AM
Thanks Coussini for the pictures. Is it you inside the LEM mockup? :)

No need to post drawings here. Meanwhile I have about every Apollo drawing available via internet.

But I could also need a good photo of panel 382...



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on August 16, 2007, 12:51:11 PM
No
Thanks Coussini for the pictures. Is it you inside the LEM mockup? :)

No need to post drawings here. Meanwhile I have about every Apollo drawing available via internet.

But I could also need a good photo of panel 382...



No... it's not me, otherwhise i can give you a great detail of the LM.  :oops:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 16, 2007, 12:58:17 PM
Quote
No... it's not me, otherwhise i can give you a great detail of the LM.

Well, the LEM panels are almost finished so far. The only thing I'll do for the LEM (after the CM has been completely finished) will be a hatch view just below the LEM main panel (STRG + ARROW DOWN) and a little bit more detail on the white pressure control panel and the backgrounds... 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on August 16, 2007, 01:18:21 PM
There are the upper and front hatch.

(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8643/lemhatchqb2.jpg)

(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/7328/ksc3513cw4.jpg)

EDIT:
The Environmental Control System (ECS) package and the Oxygen Purge System (OPS) are seen stowed in position.
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10298982

The Portable Life Support System (PLSS) pack, worn by astronauts on the Moon, is stowed in position.
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10298984


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 16, 2007, 01:22:34 PM
That could be rather helpfull, Thanks :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 20, 2007, 03:30:30 PM
Well, I took the pictures, but I was somewhat dissappointed with myself.  I wasn't able to get the steady-cam shots I wanted to and the tight space of the module made it extremely difficult to get shots around the GNC panel below the couches.  I had to be very careful not to touch most of the capsule, since this is still an "under-the-buracratic-radar" operation.  I ended up taking mostly video, and I hope that we can extract some useful stills from it.  I did get some good shots of the window for you Moonwalker, but there are no hand controllers in the CM, they were given to the crew as souveniers.  I'll sit down and edit the videos (need to remove sound and any shots of the guy who's letting me do this) and get them to you.  We were discussing the best way to go about getting some of the desired shots.  At this time, he's willing to allow me to continue taking shots from inside the hatch, but for the really good shots, we may have to go "official" and request a photographic study of the CM from the Smithsonian/NASA guys.  This is the last thing that will be tried, since a no from them will also likely prohibit further photography of the sort that I'm doing now. 

I will definately be doing this again sometime soon.  I missed way too much that I planned on getting.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 20, 2007, 05:54:07 PM
It's just great that we have a team member like you, who works that closely at NASA and can deliver latest photos and videos of the Apollo Command Module. Don't be worried about your disappointment. I rather can imagine how complicated it must be to take photos of the equipment bays without touching something or even crawl into the capsule. I think I even wouldn't be able to take such good photos like you already did the last time. Standing in front of the Apollo Command Module or even sticking my head through the hatch would make it almost impossible for me to take sharp photos, because I would be rather nervous and amazed. For me it would be one of an extremely rare moment, because NASA and Apollo seems so far away from small Germany and from my small PC, which is all I have related to space flight.

I really can't wait to see your new videos and photos. Thanks a lot for your work and efforts again :ThumbsUp432: We already have lot's of stuff of your last photos on our latest panel graphics. So I'm rather sure that your new photos also will deliver amazing new stuff to be implemented in our simulation. Especially real window views will give an amazing impression during transposition and docking within our simulation. I Can't wait to put my hands on it. And it's no problem that we don't have a photo of an hand controller. I think I could use a photo out of the web. I certainly can enlarge it and let it look fine.

To get a go for a photographic study of the CM would be the greatest thing which ever could happen for our project :shock:

Well, the 2D panel stuff of the CM will be almost finished "soon" (which means 100% still this year). There are only a few details missed on the LEB and left side wall panels. Today I started drawing the last "large" graphic: the right cb panels and SIM bay panel. After that, only the left side of the tunnel hatch has to be done (second mission timer for example) and the small panel just below the main panel/above the tunnel hatch. A real looking and "working" hatch graphic will be a final surprise of the 2D CM interior I decided. And on the LEM I'll implement a working hatch just below the main panel after the CM stuff has been finished so far.

The most important suff in future will be good photos and graphics for the VC :ThumbsUp432: As well as a good launch tower and I think a completely better looking LEM inluding a VC :yes77: If you need help for the CM VC graphics soon, let me know...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 20, 2007, 06:58:50 PM
The videos were a mistake, because while they ARE interesting, they won't be much good for texturing.  I'll take mostly stills next time around, which I will try to get before the end of the week.  There are a few useful things in the stills I did get, but I could have done better.  You'll be able to find the stills at http://swatch.homeip.net/capsule2/ (http://swatch.homeip.net/capsule2/)  I also tried a new photo album program, which looks kinda nice.   Anyway, videos will take a bit longer.

The windows didn't come out quite as nice as I had thought, but I'll try to get the best shot I can next time around if you want to use them as a "REAL-window" texture.

I'm going to get the EMS, more labels and the tunnel area better.

I can't get good shots of the side walls, its too awkward, but I'll try a few thing next time so maybe I can get ok shots. Same goes for underneath the couches.

The ORDEAL IS IN THE CAPSULE, but sadly its stowed away (you'll see what I mean in the video), so I don't think I can get shots of it like I had hoped.

PS. BTW, this was the 3rd time i've typed this post (I keep accidentally hitting backspace and taking me away from this page) and its nowhere near as good as the first two times.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 20, 2007, 07:30:04 PM
Hey, the new page and the new photo album program looks phantastic :ThumbsUp432:

I'm rather happy that you uploaded exactly the photos I really need just right now. Especially the lower left side wall and a part of the right side wall. This will help to add 100% detail on a lot of required 2D panel areas (and I'm wondering how accurate my estimations were so far concerning to a few areas). Can't wait to see your next stuff. The photos are rather good so far, even better as you think in my point of view. I really can use them. Even the rendezvous window could be used yet already (I just did a test a few minutes ago), but I'll wait until you finished all the latest stuff.

Quote
PS. BTW, this was the 3rd time i've typed this post (I keep accidentally hitting backspace and taking me away from this page) and its nowhere near as good as the first two times.

Oh yeah, sadly I know that backspace thing :awwcrap4253: This also often happened to me and really makes me angry. So I use to press "strg+a" followed by "strg+c" to select the whole text and copy it to the clipboard after each 2nd or 3rd sentence. This often keeps me from loosing my whole text now when I accidentally hit backspace...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 20, 2007, 07:36:42 PM
This is the latest left side wall graphic (wich I already postet in the modelling section)...

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1222352/a13.jpg)

I think it's rather good without using good photos during the last days. But now I can use your latest photos to add more details and enhance a few things. I think the left side wall could be completely ready until next weekend... 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 20, 2007, 08:02:49 PM
ok, additionally, I messed up posting those photos.... I re-uploaded the full-res versions.  What is on that site is only about 1/3rd resolution because I'm still learning the ropes of this program.  Also I figured out I can post the movies here too when they're done....its a sweet program.

Glad they could be of help.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 20, 2007, 08:32:24 PM
Okay, the rendezvous windows look good so far in high res, but it will be some work to put them onto our graphics. As soon as the left and right side walls have been finished I'll replace our current rendezvous windows by "real" ones I think...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 20, 2007, 08:43:46 PM
Give me until the end of the week to get some better stills.  I should be able to.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 21, 2007, 06:07:51 AM
Sure. Don't hurry. I still have to do a lot of work on the new right cb panels and the rest of the left side wall...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 21, 2007, 04:16:48 PM
Videos are up.... and I sent the guy an email, so we'll see if I can get in there before the end of the week.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Vincent Majerowicz on August 21, 2007, 05:37:28 PM
Hi, guys!!

I wanted to ask you, please tell me how many functioning switches that are working now? Keep up the excellent work!!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 21, 2007, 05:47:09 PM
Quote
Videos are up.... and I sent the guy an email, so we'll see if I can get in there before the end of the week.

Thanks Swatch :)

Quote
Hi, guys!!

I wanted to ask you, please tell me how many functioning switches that are working now? Keep up the excellent work!!

Well, I didn't count the working switches yet, but I guess it's a lot.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 21, 2007, 06:38:16 PM
Okay, I'm just right now working on panel 230 (229 and 225 100% completed today) which contains the switches and talkbacks for the SIM bay control. But panel 230 only was installed on a few missions as we all know of course. I guess the only way to "remove" panel 230 for those missions is to place small metall covers just above the switches and talkbacks on the background bitmap, as we already did for the translunar switch on the main panel for example.

If we have a different method or if somebody has another good idea, let me know.

A preview of our new right hand side circuit breaker panels follows within the next few days...   



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 21, 2007, 06:54:26 PM
Ah, and we need a new switch class for panel 230 :yes77: Because our side wall panels are rotated by 90 as in the real command module. So the switches of panel 230 have to be used horizontally instead of vertically. But I think it's not a lot of coding to create such a switch class. The talkbacks remain like they are now. I just use a different texture wich will show the talkbacks rotated by 90 ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Fearless on August 21, 2007, 11:02:01 PM
Awesome, I look forward to the completion.  :cool7777:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on August 22, 2007, 06:21:51 AM
Because our side wall panels are rotated by 90 as in the real command module. So the switches of panel 230 have to be used horizontally instead of vertically. But I think it's not a lot of coding to create such a switch class.

You're right, no big deal, I'll take a look at that!

Cheers
Tschachim



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 22, 2007, 10:01:53 AM
Quote
You're right, no big deal, I'll take a look at that!

That's great Tschachim. Thanks!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 02, 2007, 02:19:49 PM
I just committed the latest version of the "csm_lower_equip_bay.bmp" as well as the "csm_main_panel.bmp".

I also committed the new "ems_button.bmp" (size is 47x85, and the location on the csm main panel should be exactly 910, 431, 957, 516) and a new rotary for panel 380 "csm_demand_reg_rotary.bmp" (size is 70x70, the location on panel 380 should be exactly 134, 1438, 204, 1508). 

More stuff will follow soon...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 02, 2007, 03:37:37 PM
I committed the final version of the LV ENGINES lights.

Enjoy...



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on September 02, 2007, 03:51:43 PM
Thanks moonwalker!
I don't know what would be Project Apollo without you.  :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 03, 2007, 05:25:28 PM
Well, I'm proud to present the right hand side wall of the command module (not committed yet!):

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1228216/869.jpg)

The panel is finished by at about 98%.

On panel 230 you'll notice a few differences between our panel and the panel of the NASA drawing. The reason is that the panel 230 carried on the skylab missions isn't the panel which was carried on the Apollo flights. And the Apollo missions which didn't use the SIM bay didn't carry panel 230 at all of course. So I decided to draw the panel like you see above. I hope you agree.

I also didn't draw panel 274 (seen next to panel 230 on the Photos of Swatch) because it isn't mentioned in the controls & displays pdf from NASA, which is the example for almost all our panels.

I hope you'll like the new 2D area of the command module...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on September 03, 2007, 05:29:21 PM
Youppi ! That's very great  :ThumbsUp432: :ThumbsUp432: :ThumbsUp432:

You did a collosal job.... WOW !


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 03, 2007, 05:49:42 PM
Thanks Coussini :)

It was a lot of work, but is was fun too. And I'm rather happy now because the most complex panels are finished. The remaining stuff will be finished too soon (almost only small panels).




Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Fearless on September 04, 2007, 01:38:09 AM
Awesome work there MoonWalker  :cool7777: :ThumbsUp432:

Just a question if I may, By "committed" you mean that we can automatically update the current panels via CVS Update?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 04, 2007, 10:14:16 AM
Quote
Just a question if I may, By "committed" you mean that we can automatically update the current panels via CVS Update?

No. The latest stuff which I posted above is not committed ;)

 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 04, 2007, 11:33:04 AM
Just to give you an imagination of what I'm doing at the moment:

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1228574/fd1.jpg)

http://swatch.homeip.net/capsule2/slides/100_2097.JPG

I'm thinking about adding "panel" 304 (which is one knob only for the drinking water supply) also on the panel you see above.

And don't worry about the size Tschachim, the width exactly is 1680 pixels ;)

Stand by for more news...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on September 04, 2007, 02:38:49 PM
I am absolutely stoked here....  can't wait for these.  I can smell the VC getting worked on, and I haven't even started my work again.  :ThumbsUp432:

I wish that I had some better pictures of that area.   I'm still trying to get up there before I start another quarter of school.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on September 04, 2007, 02:43:50 PM
I am absolutely stoked here....  can't wait for these.  I can smell the VC getting worked on, and I haven't even started my work again.  :ThumbsUp432:

I wish that I had some better pictures of that area.   I'm still trying to get up there before I start another quarter of school.

Swatch... your photo are increadable;;;;; WOW ! YOUHOU .... Thanks for your photo.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 04, 2007, 04:28:19 PM
Quote
I wish that I had some better pictures of that area.

Don't worry. Your photos are fine enough to finish the whole area. I'm able to finish the whole command module 2D interior by the current photos and stuff I have :yes77:



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 07, 2007, 02:58:16 PM
Today I finished my work on the left hand side area of the tunnel hatch (and started to work on the final 2D "panel" 10 & 12, only the 600's remain). I'm going to add a new sound too for the running suit circuit connectors (and a new cabin fan sound) as well as graphics which show that the tubes of the suits are connected to system L, R or C, whichever you select. The same for the electrical suit umbilicals L, R or C. It would be cool to be able to connect the suits after first entering the space craft on the launch pad and also hear the suit flow system "running" smoothly :cool7777: This will enhance the sound environment within the command module I think...

The area of the final panel will look like this:

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1230157/bf0.jpg)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on September 07, 2007, 03:30:29 PM
awesome as always Moonwalker...I can't wait for these graphics!  :Excited432:

When you're done with the panels, do you think I can draft you for a few detail fillers for the CM-VC textures?

If I get around to it this weekend, I'll send you a couple screenshots of what I have so far.  If anyone deserves a sneak peak at this thing, its you.  :ThumbsUp432:  The rest of you will just have to wait.  :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 07, 2007, 03:44:03 PM
Sure, I'll help drawing the VC textures :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on September 09, 2007, 06:23:50 AM
Today I finished my work on the left hand side area of the tunnel hatch (and started to work on the final 2D "panel" 10 & 12, only the 600's remain). I'm going to add a new sound too for the running suit circuit connectors (and a new cabin fan sound) as well as graphics which show that the tubes of the suits are connected to system L, R or C, whichever you select. The same for the electrical suit umbilicals L, R or C. It would be cool to be able to connect the suits after first entering the space craft on the launch pad and also hear the suit flow system "running" smoothly :cool7777: This will enhance the sound environment within the command module I think... 

Great ideas!
Can't wait


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Fearless on September 09, 2007, 07:17:42 AM
Yeah!! It's gettin better all the time  :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Eddie on September 09, 2007, 09:39:30 AM
Great work Moonwalker!! :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on September 09, 2007, 09:40:50 AM
Great work Moonwalker!! :)

Moonwalker your the man of the situation.... you did a great job all the time  :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on October 16, 2007, 01:44:34 PM
No news for a while, but progress continues straight forward :yes77:

Just a preview of the lower panel near the tunnel hatch...

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1249840/147.jpg)

(http://www.apollosaturn.com/modeling/cmphotos/f60903x.JPG)

Does anybody know about the red and yellow knobs?/connectors? just above the fire port (lower right side next to the drinking water controls)? http://historicspacecraft.com/Photos/Apollo_9_Tunnel_Stewart_Bailey_04.jpg I can't find any information about it in my documentations, so I temporarily didn't add that stuff to our panel :?





Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on October 16, 2007, 01:53:47 PM
GREAT.... very exciting  :Excited432:

Is it possible to have these panel in the SDK folder (ready for any NASSP C++ Built DLL project)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on October 16, 2007, 02:04:09 PM
Quote
Is it possible to have these panel in the SDK folder (ready for any NASSP C++ Built DLL project)

Sorry, not yet. It isn't finished. I'll implement and commit the entire remaining stuff rather soon. Only a few things and details have to be added. Just be patient and stand by... :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on October 17, 2007, 12:25:25 PM
Beautifull , as usual!  :) :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on October 17, 2007, 07:17:40 PM
Hi Moonwalker,

great job is usual!  :ThumbsUp432:

Does anybody know about the red and yellow knobs?/connectors? just above the fire port (lower right side next to the drinking water controls)?

I don't have a reference for that, but it look like a second set of Crewman Electrical Umbilical Connectors for me, like the ones between panel 300 and 301?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on October 18, 2007, 11:01:56 AM
Thanks for the compliments :)

Quote
I don't have a reference for that, but it look like a second set of Crewman Electrical Umbilical Connectors for me, like the ones between panel 300 and 301?

I'm total unsure. This is the "best" reference I have at the moment http://historicspacecraft.com/Photos/Apollo_9_Misc_Stewart_Bailey_03.jpg but I really can't find it out...

I'll put that on the still-to-do-list and continue with the other stuff ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on October 18, 2007, 11:07:36 AM
Ok, you will create a new oven too.
http://historicspacecraft.com/Photos/Apollo_9_Misc_Stewart_Bailey_09.jpg

I was just kidding....:thankyou423: for your great job


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on October 18, 2007, 12:19:50 PM
Quote
Ok, you will create a new oven too.
http://historicspacecraft.com/Photos/Apollo_9_Misc_Stewart_Bailey_09.jpg

I was just kidding.... for your great job

:D


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on October 18, 2007, 01:01:45 PM
I guess we do need a place to stash stamps on Apollo 15 :).


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 11, 2007, 12:38:35 PM
Tschachim, I committed the lever for the SUIT TEST on panel 380 just a few seconds ago. The bitmap is named "csm_suit_test_lever". It's size is 324x324 and it should fit perfectly to the panel background. Sorry for the delay! 

Don't worry about the missing label for the "OFF" position (up). I'm just right now working (...straight forward to the Apollo 7 release) on the final changes so that the left panel optically fits to the large new left side wall of the CSM (still not committed yet).

Updates will follow next week. But I don't want to give away too much yet... ;)


Regards


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 15, 2007, 07:19:51 PM
Well, just a try. It's the best I could do using an original photo of the left hand side rendezvous window:

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1267516/557.jpg)

What do you think? Should we continue to use the old bitmap or would you like to use the one above?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: FordPrefect on November 15, 2007, 07:24:31 PM
Holy smoke, Moonwalker! Thats looking great! I would vote for this new bitmap. Beautiful work   :shock:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on November 15, 2007, 07:25:03 PM
WOWZERS!!!! KEEP!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on November 15, 2007, 07:44:37 PM
Yeah, amazing! I vote for the new one.  :ThumbsUp432:

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 15, 2007, 08:06:49 PM
Okay, I think I put it on the list ;)

The only thing which doesn't look good at the moment is the coas mount and the panel below the window. Doesn't fit perfectly to the original stuff yet. Maybe I can fix it someway soon. But compared to the old bitmap this new one is far more eye candy :)

I'm going to implement all the latest stuff within the next days. This will include (beside the new rendezvous windows too of course):

- the complete right hand side panels (nearly represents the whole right hand side of the CM interior)
- the area of panel 10 & 12 underneath the main panel (just above the LM tunnel)
- the panels left next to the LM tunnel (underneath the left hand side of the main panel, including the second mission timer and so on...)
- and finally the new panel for cabin pressurisation controls (nearly includes the whole left hand side of the CM interior)

The final remaining item is the hatch (including panel 600, 601 & 602 which I think should be added as a kind of pop-up-panels). But I'll open a special thread for the hatch soon... 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on November 15, 2007, 09:12:54 PM
Ok, one of the things I've been noticing of late is that the slowest panel on my computer (except for the whole main panel, which I don't use because, besides it being just plain HUGE, it draws my computer to a crawl) is the equipment bay.  I'm not sure why at the moment, but I propose to implement a smaller GNC bay panel which will have all it's panels in a compressed form on a smaller bitmap hopefully reducing significantly the lag factor.  This would also include removing the *seemingly* little used MFD's on the lower panel for the "low specs users" option.  I've already implemented it into the launchpad dialog, but am asking permission before I go messing up saturnpanel.cpp with my new lower panel.  I've got partial changes complete, and it really changes some things... most specifically, it adds a whole new panel, and a lot more if statements in the initialization of the main panels (to know which lower panel to link to). I've already submitted an updated saturn.h with the panel name included so you won't have to worry about overwriting my panel work with this new panel.

I'm open to discussion on exact implementation, and if you'd rather implement it within your work, then I'll back off and let you have at.  If you're fine with what I have planned, I have most of it implemented and can have it done in a couple days.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on November 15, 2007, 09:58:59 PM
Guys...you'll have to keep in mind something with that panel....it won't look that amazing in the dark.  I agree that shot looks absolutely great!  But remember, the lighting really matches in this photo.  Moonwalker, do you think you could post an image of what it looks like when you are on the night side of the earth?  I just want to make sure you guys know how it will look at all times before you are disappointed. (also, I'm interested to see if it looks that bad at night....cuz that picture may be one of the best I've ever seen.

~Swatch


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 15, 2007, 10:44:27 PM
Ok, one of the things I've been noticing of late is that the slowest panel on my computer (except for the whole main panel, which I don't use because, besides it being just plain HUGE, it draws my computer to a crawl) is the equipment bay.  I'm not sure why at the moment, but I propose to implement a smaller GNC bay panel which will have all it's panels in a compressed form on a smaller bitmap hopefully reducing significantly the lag factor.  This would also include removing the *seemingly* little used MFD's on the lower panel for the "low specs users" option.  I've already implemented it into the launchpad dialog, but am asking permission before I go messing up saturnpanel.cpp with my new lower panel.  I've got partial changes complete, and it really changes some things... most specifically, it adds a whole new panel, and a lot more if statements in the initialization of the main panels (to know which lower panel to link to). I've already submitted an updated saturn.h with the panel name included so you won't have to worry about overwriting my panel work with this new panel.

I'm open to discussion on exact implementation, and if you'd rather implement it within your work, then I'll back off and let you have at.  If you're fine with what I have planned, I have most of it implemented and can have it done in a couple days.

Well, the current lower equipment bay bitmap already is compressed from about 28MB to only about 3MB. So it shouldn't lag at all. At least for me it doesn't. Just works perfect, but I have to mention that I use rather new and high-end hardware.

I would agree to "split" the existing panel into let's say three parts: left, center & right. And there should be an option to chose between using whole panels or splited panels. But I think using the lower GN&C panels compressed within a small bitmap would significantly reduce realism. The panels should appear like they do in the real CM too. But if we split the whole stuff, then I rather vote for an option to chose between split and "real" ;)

What do others think about it?


@ Swatch,

I see what you mean. My brother also mentioned it. I think he will easily remove the lighting. He is a Corel expert ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on November 15, 2007, 11:13:37 PM
Well, the change I'm proposing involves removing all the extraneous bitmap space that is used, and possibly more importantly, remove the mfd's which when I did just that in my local code, I was really surprised to find the system shoot off some.  As I've said though, the lower bitmap is actually quite a large one to load on older hardware, and especially when running in window mode (for those of us who have full screen do funny things to their screen).

On further study, and in the process of trying to figure out how to reduce the size, I came up with this (MUCH) smaller bitmap which doesn't actually move any panels just removes all the "stuff" from the rest (as well as panel 163, no offense to the real apollo, but we just don't NEED a utility switch and socket to recreate the mission.  If it should still be in in people's opinion, it can be relocated I suppose and made to look nice).  I know the stuff looks nice, and if I had a higher end computer, I would certainly keep it, but in keeping with the nature of nassp, we need to think of the lower end users who haven't been able to upgrade their computers in 3 years (myself  :wink:)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 16, 2007, 12:34:22 AM
Well, we shouldn't forget what this project and addon actually tries to do: to simulate Apollo as realistically as possible, including all instrument panels (yes, even urine dump :yes77:). And all this panels should appear like they also appear in the real spacecraft. 

Of course you can use the reduced lower equipment bay for your personal version. But there is a lot of more large panel stuff going to be implemented which can't be just cut. The left and right hand side panels won't be reducible anyway because it would reduce realism. It would be the best way to offer two different panel sets if possible: full and split. But split shouldn't mean to "change" the panels. They should just be divided into different parts like left, center, right or upper and lower. 

 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on November 16, 2007, 12:56:27 AM
Fair enough.  I was under the impression that the lower equipment bay had all it's panels...  I guess I was wrong?

A split would be acceptable, but either way, the single large panel is just TOO big for many slow computers, my own included.

Yes, the urine dump is important, but a third utility connector (I know of two others plus a "science" connector) may not be so much.  That aside, yes, I believe that if possible, every single switch should be flippable, and should affect the ship as it would in the real thing, and if there are switches in the lower bay I haven't seen, then my suggestion was based on incomplete information.

I will code for a split panel on mine.  BTW: Is the bitmap in CVS the full size that it will be?  Cause I'd rather not code a split only to have to code it again because the bitmap changed.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 16, 2007, 01:29:29 AM
Fair enough.  I was under the impression that the lower equipment bay had all it's panels...  I guess I was wrong?

A split would be acceptable, but either way, the single large panel is just TOO big for many slow computers, my own included.

Yes, the urine dump is important, but a third utility connector (I know of two others plus a "science" connector) may not be so much.  That aside, yes, I believe that if possible, every single switch should be flippable, and should affect the ship as it would in the real thing, and if there are switches in the lower bay I haven't seen, then my suggestion was based on incomplete information.

I will code for a split panel on mine.  BTW: Is the bitmap in CVS the full size that it will be?  Cause I'd rather not code a split only to have to code it again because the bitmap changed.

The lower equipment bay won't change in size anymore ;) But a few things like additional labels will be added.

The 2D panel bitmaps also will be used for the virtual cockpit, to create a comparable appearance between the 2D and 3D environment.

I will need to talk to Tschachim too concerning the panel splitting. Anyway, for slow machines Project Apollo will need some performance. Even without split panels, we'll have 11 different panel (and window) bitmaps available for the Command Module, and 8 for the LEM. So the question also is: what is more acceptable? A little bit of lag on a few panels, or always switching between 20 to 30 different panel parts just for the Command Module?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 16, 2007, 01:53:34 AM
Ah, it's not even only 11 panels for the CM, and 8 for the LM. I forgot to count the panels for the telescope and sixtant views too :)

Of course it's for sure that some people don't use new hardware. But when you create new software it's often based on modern hardware. I agree that developers have to make sure that there is a good compromise between old and new hardware requirements. But users also have to reckon that they anyhow need new hardware any time in future. But splitting the panels is useful and a good compromise I think, without cutting some existing stuff and work or reducing realism.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on November 16, 2007, 02:05:33 AM
I guess it's a difficult decision, but I would press for split of the equipment bay due to the fact that it loads very slow and eats framerates.  The "miniaturized" version I prepped up for demo on here (and accidentally committed to CVS, reverted to previous files, found that unedit and commit are WAY to close together on the right click menu), really helped.  It wasn't a lot smaller vertically (I think I trimmed it up about a hundred pixels or so) but the lateral trimming really saved on the frame rates.  I don't know, are we expecting further large panels?  More switches doesn't seem to be as much of a problem as large panels.  If I dealt with panels this size in my Flight Sim work, it'd be split into 20-30 windows, and half of them would be cut out because of limitations.  I think we have gotten around most of the limitations, but yes, 20-30 windows is not way off the wall.  Again, I agree that it should be user selectable.

Here is what I then propose:

Launchpad configuration options for "CSM/LM PANELS"

1) Full-size, scrollable panels.  <- High power computers only.
2) Medium split, slightly overlapping panels. <- Would only apply to very large panels, more than say, 2500px in any direction? (random number, representative only of being twice the resolution I play Orbiter at)
3) Compressed split, slightly overlapping panels. <- (Not likely to be implemented for this release).  Same panels, same switches, same position, but using lower resolution bitmaps and positioning the switches according to the new bitmap...  The only use for this mode would be for those users who have to run at a much lower resolution due to screen or vid card incompatibility with higher resolutions.

Option 3 might never happen, and might be totally pointless, I am just throwing it out as food for thought.

Option 2 might still only affect the Main panel and the Equipment bay, and MAYBE the main panel of the LEM (I don't think there's any reason for that, but it seems to be the next biggest panel after the equipment bay).

The question here is if it's worth the work for the few of us who are going to have problems?  And if it is, how much would it delay release?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 16, 2007, 02:25:53 AM
I think the launchpad configuration option 1 and 2 would be fine. But I really would like to know what Tschachim and others will think and say about it too.

I don't know why a large panel bitmap results in low fps. Actually the main panel is the most complex panel and should drop down fps. I remember that I only had fps problems when I compiled the modules using "win32 debug" instead of "win32 release". But I guess that there are problems of or within Orbiter too on some slow machines and ATI cards.

Quote
I don't know, are we expecting further large panels?

Oh yeah ;) Beside the lower equipment bay, which actually has less instrument panels (180 will be added too), there will be the right and left hand sides of the command module, including different more or less complex panels. But I will post a large preview this evening, which will show all the final panels and it's management...



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on November 16, 2007, 06:23:42 AM
I think the launchpad configuration option 1 and 2 would be fine. But I really would like to know what Tschachim and others will think and say about it too.

Option 1 and 2 is fine for me, too, i.e. I'd suggest to just re-label the current "CSM main panel" setting in the launchpad configuration to "CSM/LM Panels" and split the G&N panel the same way the main panel is already split. On my old laptop (ATI Radeon 9???) I had a strange bug with the unsplit main panel, after switching between panels a couple of times my frame rate dropped to 1 fps, so I assume it a rather important feature and would be useful for the G&N panel, too. Lassombra, if you do the splitting of the G&N panel, please keep in mind that you need to be able to use at least 3 MFDs simultaneously to do a proper TEI burn (and propably 4 in future because you'll need ProjectApolloMFD to display the burn data in LVLH for the VAGC), this should be still possible with split panels.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on November 16, 2007, 09:32:38 AM
GAH! I Knew I would need those MFD's eventually...

Alright, including the four MFD's would still be possible, I suppose (though they do cause my computer to drag it's feet).

Though a separate MFD window might actually be the solution...

I will code that up and see what we get...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 16, 2007, 11:18:35 AM
Quote
I had a strange bug with the unsplit main panel, after switching between panels a couple of times my frame rate dropped to 1 fps, so I assume it a rather important feature and would be useful for the G&N panel, too.

Do you mean switching between the CM and LM panels? For that case I found a solution: just turn of the 2D panel (F8) before swichting from CM to LM or backwards, and everything is fine ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on November 16, 2007, 01:26:25 PM
Ok, I'm doing like is done in the split main panels.  The definitions have been moved to a routine that will take in an offset.  I've coded the offset already to match the new bitmaps I made (which are just vertical "strips" of the original).  Future code work should not involve too much extra effort, but there are now 4 bitmaps for the lower bay background.

I'll build the modules and bug test them, and if they behave correctly, I'll commit.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 16, 2007, 01:52:49 PM
Will the full eqipment bay still be usable as an option?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on November 16, 2007, 03:42:38 PM
Alright, including the four MFD's would still be possible, I suppose (though they do cause my computer to drag it's feet).

Also if they are turned off? Which graphics adapter do you use?

Do you mean switching between the CM and LM panels?

No, just by switching between CSM panels. But the problem went away since I have an ATI X1600.  :)

Will the full eqipment bay still be usable as an option?

Yes, I meant it the way that the existing split setting will control the G&N panel the same way as the main panel is already controlled.

Cheers
Tschachim 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on November 16, 2007, 03:46:49 PM
Yeah, I'm coding a separate option into the configurator for split equipment bay.  So the following combinations should be possible:

Full Main / Full Equip Bay (Default)
Full Main / Split Equip Bay (WHY???)
Split Main / Full Equip Bay (As it was with split panels)
Split Main / Split Equip Bay (Split it all, cause my computer can't handle it :P)

There will be a second option set in the configurator, and a separate switch in the panel code.

All the normal panel stuff should be still there...  For the record, I'm splitting it on the right side of panel 101 and just to the right of the DSKY.  I don't know if they are the best splits, but it seemed most logical to have the optics and dsky be the primary panel, as they are what will be most needed I believe.

As to the MFD's I'm leaving them as they are, and I don't think the dragging has anything to do with the graphics.  I'm hoping that the split panel system will provide enough reduction in strain to let the system run smoothly again.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on November 16, 2007, 03:49:40 PM
Yeah, I'm coding a separate option into the configurator for split equipment bay...

Of course that's fine for me,too.  :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 16, 2007, 05:18:38 PM
Okay, great work. Anyhow I'm happy that I'll be able to continue using full panels :P

:ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on November 16, 2007, 09:07:42 PM
I wouldn't dream of taking away the full panels.  I just wish I had hardware that could run it... :cry:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on November 16, 2007, 09:54:31 PM
Ok, I've committed the split G&N Bay panel.  Should work like normal till you select it from the configurator.  I've coded to accomodate the random users that will try and switch back to  full and load a scenario that starts them in the left or right split panel...  I believe it should also be a seemless transition from full to split.

In the event that both the main and G&N panels are split, they will link to the part that would be "below" them.

The split takes place in a couple of overlapping areas.

Panel 101 is the right edge of the left area (No MFD's are shown in the left panel).

The Center panel picks up about halfway through panel 101 and carries over to the far end of the DSKY.  All four MFD's are present on the Center panel.

The Right panel picks up with the DSKY (the entire DSKY is visible and interactive on the right panel... it just looked lonely without any active anything on it...)

Everything is committed, so you can try it out.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 17, 2007, 07:29:48 AM
:ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on November 21, 2007, 08:49:57 PM
BTW, as per the other thread, the system test display is wrong, it should read 0-5V:

http://history.nasa.gov/ap15fj/pics/panel101.gif

We'd also need the separate transparent bitmap of the display to render on top of the needle, as with the standard AC and DC volt meters.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 23, 2007, 04:09:30 PM
BTW, as per the other thread, the system test display is wrong, it should read 0-5V:

http://history.nasa.gov/ap15fj/pics/panel101.gif

We'd also need the separate transparent bitmap of the display to render on top of the needle, as with the standard AC and DC volt meters.

Thanks for the info. It'll be fixed...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on November 24, 2007, 04:26:21 PM
Hey Moonwalker, I'd also like to request a small manipulation of the main panel.   I could do it and actually already have, but it doesn't seem to have the same compression you achieve (mines bigger).  I need the EMS Scroll area to be painted white instead of black please.  This way I can make the scroll mostly transparent and just paint it over the white background.


Also, in slightly related news to more people than just Moonwalker....

I successfully set up the EMSdVSet Switch to display different click states (just committed it too)....so I'm pretty sure I've got the oapiBlt stuff down okay....but I'm having trouble trying to get the EMS scroll to display.  At the moment I'm not trying to slew it (although I have the code for that on my computer), I just want to see the scroll on the the EMS.  But when I try to do that, it won't display.  I commited the non-slewing stuff I've done in saturnpanel, so could someone take a quick glance to see if I'm missing something obvious?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on November 24, 2007, 05:11:48 PM
Check that you're rendering to the correct size area. From what I remember, if you have a 10x10 area on the screen and try to blit 11x11 pixels to it, Orbiter just ignores the call rather than clipping.

I had a lot of problems with one of the displays in the past until I realised my size calculations were out by one pixel and Orbiter was ignoring me as a result!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on November 24, 2007, 06:11:07 PM
Hmmmm, I'll check that again, that's a good point that I hadn't thought of.

The other thing I thought of was does it matter what type of bitmap it is?  Right now the scroll is a 256-color bitmap. (8-bit)  Does that matter?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on November 24, 2007, 06:58:17 PM
I successfully set up the EMSdVSet Switch to display different click states (just committed it too)....

Thanks, the button is working fine. But you broke the Resources.rc file, I already committed the fix. I assume your Visual Studio did that for you  :wink:, perhaps you should use a text editor instead for adding bmp files to avoid that.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on November 24, 2007, 07:04:37 PM
Yea, sorry about that.  Its VS2003.  Thanks for correcting that.  I don't really like messing with the resources stuff, but those two things hadn't been added yet.  I'll try using a text editor from now on.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 24, 2007, 09:19:09 PM
Hey Moonwalker, I'd also like to request a small manipulation of the main panel.   I could do it and actually already have, but it doesn't seem to have the same compression you achieve (mines bigger).  I need the EMS Scroll area to be painted white instead of black please.  This way I can make the scroll mostly transparent and just paint it over the white background.

Sure. I'm just right now working on the main panel (adding the new windows).


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on November 25, 2007, 12:39:12 AM
So there are two bugs with the EMS code. One is that you didn't increase the number of surfaces to 122, so you're running off the end of the array... we should really change that to an enum so it automatically updates. I'll check in a fix for that one.

The other is the size thing; when I cut it down to 100x100 I can see a partially transparent bitmap appear. For some reason I then see through the control panel where the EMS bitmap is drawn.

You'll need another bitmap for the scroll surround, so you can get the curved edges; first render the control panel, then the EMS scroll, then the surround on the panel.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on November 25, 2007, 12:51:22 AM
yea, I just found the surface number problem myself and was about to commit that, I thought that I had added that, but I only added it for the LEO_SCROLL, not the dVSetSwitch.  Thanks for that.

As to the other bitmap, I planned on that, but I wanted to make sure the scroll was displaying first.  Now that I know its a pixel math issue, I'll be able to tweak it and add the second bitmap.  This time I'll try not to forget the surface number this time! :wink:


EDIT:   Ah, now I see what you mean... that is an interesting result...too bad too.    No matter, I'll just go back to the way I ORIGINALLY planned on doing this when I started a few days ago.  I was hoping this way I could get by with only one blt, but looks like I'll have to do both.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on November 25, 2007, 12:56:27 AM
I'm just testing a change that turns the surface IDs into an enum, so that will then automatically update the maximum value whenever you add a new one.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on November 25, 2007, 12:57:55 AM
That would be kind to forgetful people like myself!  Looking forward to it if it works.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on November 25, 2007, 01:21:47 AM
I've checked that in; however, I'm going to add different versions of the enum to both Saturn and LEM classes, since many of the values aren't needed for the LEM.

If you check in something in the meantime that breaks my local changes I'll fix them up before checking them in :).


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on November 25, 2007, 01:25:21 AM
I'll try to reconcile differences on my end also....


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on November 25, 2007, 01:56:48 AM
OK, that's checked in. You'll need to edit saturn.h now instead of nasspdefs.h.

Note that you no longer need to manually allocate ID numbers either, just add the ID name to the enum list before nsurf and after the first entry.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on November 25, 2007, 02:01:36 AM
cool, good idea there.

Now....Moonwalker, I found another tweak on the EMS panel.   On the 11-position rotary switch, the value at the top that says "RING SET"  should be "RNG SET"  Hopefully that's it! :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 25, 2007, 05:27:28 AM
Now....Moonwalker, I found another tweak on the EMS panel.   On the 11-position rotary switch, the value at the top that says "RING SET"  should be "RNG SET"  Hopefully that's it! :ThumbsUp432:

It will be fixed and committed today, together with the new rendezvous windows and the new lower panel (10 & 12)... ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on November 25, 2007, 01:04:39 PM
Hi Moonwalker,

thanks again for the EMS button bitmap, but it looks like it is wrong a little bit: It seems that the switch is pushed a little bit to the left when the left mouse button is depressed and a little bit to the right with the right mouse button. But the left mouse button should fully depress the switch, while the right mouse button depresses the switch only "half way", both "straight on". I hope I explained it understandable...  :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 25, 2007, 06:35:21 PM
Sorry for the delay again guys :oops: I still have to work on a few details. But it's about 99% finished ;)

Here is the current state of the panels:

http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/panel_management.jpg

Hi Moonwalker,

thanks again for the EMS button bitmap, but it looks like it is wrong a little bit: It seems that the switch is pushed a little bit to the left when the left mouse button is depressed and a little bit to the right with the right mouse button. But the left mouse button should fully depress the switch, while the right mouse button depresses the switch only "half way", both "straight on". I hope I explained it understandable...  :)

Mhhh, sorry, I don't know exactly how the switch works and has to look like. Maybe I should take a look to the controls and displays pdf...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on November 25, 2007, 06:42:47 PM
Mhhh, sorry, I don't know exactly how the switch works and has to look like. Maybe I should take a look to controls and displays pdf...

http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=848.msg10501#msg10501  :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 25, 2007, 07:00:58 PM
Ahhh, okay. The wrong thing is that the current switch moves to the left and right too. It'll be fixed of course ;) Too bad I didn't remember your post :awwcrap4253: :D


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on November 25, 2007, 09:12:22 PM
First off.... I'm salivating after that preview...it was beautiful.

Secondly.... take as much time as you need to get those working.

Finally... I'm a very needy developer...  On the EMS Indicator lights (.05G and SPS Thrust)  the .05G light currently reads 0.5G instead.  I can correct that on my own if you need me to, but it might be easier for you to do it if you could.

Looking good man!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 26, 2007, 06:20:39 AM
First off.... I'm salivating after that preview...it was beautiful.

Secondly.... take as much time as you need to get those working.

Finally... I'm a very needy developer...  On the EMS Indicator lights (.05G and SPS Thrust)  the .05G light currently reads 0.5G instead.  I can correct that on my own if you need me to, but it might be easier for you to do it if you could.

Looking good man!

I'll correct the ".05G" light of course. Just tell me everything which needs to be fixed. Since I have all the originals and templates I have to update them continuously. Otherwise a gap of differences could increase between the CVS panels and the originals.

I'm very close to the finishing of the graphics (beside the hatch). So stand by for any news very soon...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 26, 2007, 08:25:13 AM
By the way, I noticed that the event timer on panel 1 doesn't work anymore. Time still can be set but it doesn't count when it's started. Did I miss something?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on November 26, 2007, 09:59:51 AM
It's working fine for me, please be aware of that the Event Timer is not working before launch.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 26, 2007, 11:34:07 AM
It's working fine for me, please be aware of that the Event Timer is not working before launch.

Ah okay. I remember that on an earlier version it was usable before launch.

Which reference for the countdown was used by the crew during prelaunch?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on November 26, 2007, 12:02:15 PM
Which reference for the countdown was used by the crew during prelaunch?

The big and expensives watches they wear on their wrist. :wink:

seriously I don't see anything else.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on November 26, 2007, 12:04:23 PM
The time being relayed on the loudspeaker???  Just a guess...  :wink:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 26, 2007, 12:22:10 PM
Okay, now we have the choice between their watches and the loudspeaker... :D

It's still just strange to me (although the documents tell us) that they had two timers available in the CM and none of them was used during prelaunch, and that the mission timer had to be started manually (other than the mission timer of the Space Shuttle).


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on November 26, 2007, 12:39:11 PM
...and that the mission timer had to be started manually...

Both the Mission Timer and the Event Timer reset and start automatically at liftoff.

I concur with the statements of Christophe and Lassombra, another choice would be the AGC in case TEPHEM is the launch time, which is currently the case in our VAGC Apollo 7 scenario, but probably not the case in reality. We can use the ProjectApolloMFD for that, of course.

But if I ever have the change to meet an Apollo astronout this is problably the question I'd ask...

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on November 26, 2007, 02:09:04 PM
The event timer had a count down function and this is probably what was used during pre-launch.

At T-3 hours they'd simply turn on the count down and let it go, as it would give them the minutes remaining in the current hour.  Far more usable than the loudspeaker  :roll:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on November 26, 2007, 02:11:28 PM
The event timer had a count down function and this is probably what was used during pre-launch.

Again: Please be aware of that the Event Timer is not working before launch.  :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 26, 2007, 02:15:50 PM
Why isn't it working during prelaunch?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on November 26, 2007, 04:03:23 PM
Ok, is this a bug then? because on the last run I did, the event timer was working as soon as I turned on the CMC...  Which if I recall correctly is what drives the event timer?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on November 26, 2007, 04:30:32 PM
Allthough I never was in a CM during an Apollo mission prelaunch (and How I would enjoy that! :roll:), according to the AOH procedures the event timer was not counting down during prelaunch.
So that left only personnal watch and Launch Control.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 27, 2007, 04:58:02 AM
Well, back to the panel status...

beside the hatch, everything is finished now (unless somebody has a wish or still detects a wrong label) and ready for implementation. I updated the new panel mangament sheet which shows the current panels exactly as they'll appear in Orbiter:
 
http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/panel_management.jpg

As soon as I've added a list of implemented panels on the management sheet, I will commit it to the Doc folder. By the way, I added a Verb and Noun list of our currently working AGC on Panel 122 on the lower equipment bay. I hope the list is up to date.

@ Swatch, you'll get a special set of panels for the virtual cockpit later this afternoon! 

@ Tschachim, I finally fixed the requested things for the main panel. Everything should be perfect now.


My intention is to commit the whole stuff in 2 steps:

Step 1 - replacing the current panels by the final versions (main panel, left and right hand side panels, rendezvous windows, lower equipment bay, cabin press panel which actually is a complete new one, and slightly updated sextant and telescope views)

Step 2 - finally adding the new panels (the 2 panels below the main panel and the right hand side lower panel)

A third and very final step will be the addition of a fully working (if possible) hatch :)

Beside the hatch, after several years of work, the CM instrument panels may be considered as graphical completed finally :Excited432: The very only one thing I'm thinking about is to change the big rotaries and the small rotaries (the direct O2 style rotaries) to a real metall look ;) But that only would be a very small change unless you wish to see anything else changed or added...

I'll start implementation later this afternoon. This time it's for sure ;)

I can't tell how lightening the status of the graphical artwork is for me...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on November 27, 2007, 08:24:25 AM
I just want to know it theses panel are comit in CVS ?  Because i rebuild my environment just after an CVS update, and i did'nt see your new panel

You did a great job. Swatch... you did a great job too ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 27, 2007, 09:19:56 AM
I just want to know it theses panel are comit in CVS ?  Because i rebuild my environment just after an CVS update, and i did'nt see your new panel

You did a great job. Swatch... you did a great job too ;)

Thanks. And no, the panels are not committed yet. I'm going to implement them within the next few hours...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 27, 2007, 04:06:08 PM
While I'm implementing the latest panels and especially updating the splitted panels, I would like to recommend changing the width of the center equipment bay panel to 1430 instead of 1596, because on the current center view you can see only a half of the panel 122 left system test rotary and it's dc volts gauge, which would mean they're not usable within that view and don't show what has been selected on the left view. 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on November 27, 2007, 05:14:29 PM
I have no problem with that change.  I designed the split based on the MFD's but you're right, it would probably be better not to split up whole panels.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 27, 2007, 06:30:16 PM
Splitting the panels is not a problem. It works fine the way it already is splitted. The only thing is the panel 101 on the left side of the center part. I think it can be fixed easily. But I didn't look at the MFD's yet... 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on November 28, 2007, 02:45:16 AM
just expanding that bitmap as needed to show the whole panel (and reducing the offset of the center group in the split by the same number of pixels) would allow that to function properly.

What happened is that I started the center panel where the MFD's start in the full panel (so the center panel runs horizontally from the first MFD over to the end of the DSKY).

This obviously can be fixed by just taking a larger slice of the original panel (the full panel 101) and then updating the offset in the panel definition.

EDIT: Alternatively, a system could be in place to move the MFD's over in the split panel.  This would take more coding, but would result in a smaller center bay panel.  Potential implementation:

Code:
void Saturn::AddCenterLowerPanelAreas(int offset)
becomes:
void Saturn::AddCenterLowerPanelAreas(int offset, bool split)

Then, in the MFD section, it is divided:
if (!split)
{
MFDSPEC mfds_gnleft  =     {{ 1140 + 49,  1780 + 15, 1140 + 308, 1780 + 270}, 6, 6, 37, 37};
MFDSPEC mfds_gnuser1 =     {{ 1510 + 49,  1780 + 15, 1510 + 308, 1780 + 270}, 6, 6, 37, 37};
MFDSPEC mfds_gnuser2 =     {{ 1880 + 49,  1780 + 15, 1880 + 308, 1780 + 270}, 6, 6, 37, 37};
MFDSPEC mfds_gnright =     {{ 2250 + 49,  1780 + 15, 2250 + 308, 1780 + 270}, 6, 6, 37, 37};
oapiRegisterMFD(MFD_LEFT, mfds_gnleft);
oapiRegisterMFD(MFD_USER1, mfds_gnuser1);
oapiRegisterMFD(MFD_USER2, mfds_gnuser2);
oapiRegisterMFD(MFD_RIGHT, mfds_gnright);
oapiRegisterPanelArea (AID_MFDGNLEFT, _R(1140, 1780, 1140 + 359, 1780 + 300), PANEL_REDRAW_ALWAYS, PANEL_MOUSE_LBDOWN|PANEL_MOUSE_LBPRESSED, PANEL_MAP_BACKGROUND);
oapiRegisterPanelArea (AID_MFDGNUSER1, _R(1510, 1780, 1510 + 359, 1780 + 300), PANEL_REDRAW_ALWAYS, PANEL_MOUSE_LBDOWN|PANEL_MOUSE_LBPRESSED, PANEL_MAP_BACKGROUND);
oapiRegisterPanelArea (AID_MFDGNUSER2, _R(, 1780, 1880 + 359, 1780 + 300), PANEL_REDRAW_ALWAYS, PANEL_MOUSE_LBDOWN|PANEL_MOUSE_LBPRESSED, PANEL_MAP_BACKGROUND);
oapiRegisterPanelArea (AID_MFDGNRIGHT, _R(2250, 1780, 2250 + 359, 1780 + 300), PANEL_REDRAW_ALWAYS, PANEL_MOUSE_LBDOWN|PANEL_MOUSE_LBPRESSED, PANEL_MAP_BACKGROUND);
}
else
{
MFDSPEC mfds_gnleft  =     {{0 + 49,  1780 + 15, 0 + 308, 1780 + 270}, 6, 6, 37, 37};
MFDSPEC mfds_gnuser1 =     {{ 370 + 49,  1780 + 15, 370 + 308, 1780 + 270}, 6, 6, 37, 37};
MFDSPEC mfds_gnuser2 =     {{ 740 + 49,  1780 + 15, 740 + 308, 1780 + 270}, 6, 6, 37, 37};
MFDSPEC mfds_gnright =     {{ 1110 + 49,  1780 + 15, 1110 + 308, 1780 + 270}, 6, 6, 37, 37};

oapiRegisterMFD(MFD_LEFT, mfds_gnleft);
oapiRegisterMFD(MFD_USER1, mfds_gnuser1);
oapiRegisterMFD(MFD_USER2, mfds_gnuser2);
oapiRegisterMFD(MFD_RIGHT, mfds_gnright);
oapiRegisterPanelArea (AID_MFDGNLEFT, _R(0, 1780, 0 + 359, 1780 + 300), PANEL_REDRAW_ALWAYS, PANEL_MOUSE_LBDOWN|PANEL_MOUSE_LBPRESSED, PANEL_MAP_BACKGROUND);
oapiRegisterPanelArea (AID_MFDGNUSER1, _R(370, 1780, 370 + 359, 1780 + 300), PANEL_REDRAW_ALWAYS, PANEL_MOUSE_LBDOWN|PANEL_MOUSE_LBPRESSED, PANEL_MAP_BACKGROUND);
oapiRegisterPanelArea (AID_MFDGNUSER2, _R(740, 1780, 740 + 359, 1780 + 300), PANEL_REDRAW_ALWAYS, PANEL_MOUSE_LBDOWN|PANEL_MOUSE_LBPRESSED, PANEL_MAP_BACKGROUND);
oapiRegisterPanelArea (AID_MFDGNRIGHT, _R(1110, 1780, 1110 + 359, 1780 + 300), PANEL_REDRAW_ALWAYS, PANEL_MOUSE_LBDOWN|PANEL_MOUSE_LBPRESSED, PANEL_MAP_BACKGROUND);
}
That would leave the MFD's where they are if the panel isn't split, but move them to the origin of the panel if they are allowing them to remain visible.  The big catch is that the panel NEEDS to be at least 1469 pixels wide.

I really don't care how it's done, but one of the things I ran into when I split the panel is that you HAVE to have a complete MFD on the panel, partial ones just act funny.  (It draws half the screen, but quietly ignores the frame because it doesn't fit on the panel).  And as Tchachim pointed out when I was working on it, we'll probably need all four MFD's at least for the near future, and likely for quickstart mode into the distant future.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 28, 2007, 09:19:10 PM
@ lassombra

Don't worry about the splitting and the MFD's. I didn't touch the splitted equipment bay panels yet. I only updated the bitmaps. I'll have a closer look to the MFD's when I have completed all the other panels ;)


@ All others:

Step one has been completed. All the current panels are replaced by the new ones, including the new large left side wall and it's panels.

After CVS update you'll find:

- completely new and almost "real" rendezvous windows (many thanks to swatch!)

- a preview of the upcoming hatch

- updated main panel, left and right panels, lower equipment bay and telescope/sextant panels (final versions I guess, unless you don't like something...)

- and the new left side wall as mentioned


Things which don't work yet:

- PLVC switch

- panel 380, 382, the two main regulator switches of panel 352 and the emergency pressure "press to test" button

The reason for the not working stuff is that I'm not sure how to "cover" panel 382 and it's switches (and how to manage overlapping bitmaps for panel 380). The cover already is committed ("csm_panel_382_cover.bmp"). And another reason is that we don't have switches yet which move horizontally.


@ Movieman

I also committed the bitmap for panel 101: "csm_panel_101_dcvolts.bmp".


By the way, isn't it possible to be able to "see" the entry flames through the windows? That would be stunning :Excited432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on November 28, 2007, 09:53:45 PM

By the way, isn't it possible to be able to "see" the entry flames through the windows? That would be stunning :Excited432:

Indeed it was...and actually, you can see it if you switch to the panel-less view....but you can also see the problem...  Turns out it is clipped by the same annoying clipping radius that kills the LES cover of the windows (even though I know a way around that when the CM VC is eventually finished).


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on November 28, 2007, 11:57:44 PM
@ Movieman
I also committed the bitmap for panel 101: "csm_panel_101_dcvolts.bmp".

OK, the System Test meter is now working, but it's wired to the rotary switch, which isn't wired to anything; so it displays 0V all the time. If someone can wire up the switches to the appropriate values then it will display the output correctly.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on November 29, 2007, 12:07:41 AM
Does anyone know why the system test meter info on the panel lists 'switch positions' up to 11, whereas the actual switch only goes up to 7?

Edit: it doesn't match the information in the Apollo Operations Handbook (Controls and Displays) page 226. That goes up to 7-D.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 29, 2007, 07:13:10 AM

By the way, isn't it possible to be able to "see" the entry flames through the windows? That would be stunning :Excited432:

Indeed it was...and actually, you can see it if you switch to the panel-less view....but you can also see the problem...  Turns out it is clipped by the same annoying clipping radius that kills the LES cover of the windows (even though I know a way around that when the CM VC is eventually finished).

For the LES cover, if it should not work the way you know, just put the bitmaps for the windows in place which already exist in CVS ;)


@ Movieman, thanks for pointing out the difference between the label and the test rotary positions. The reason for that simply is that the label has been taken from the skylab capsule images of Swatch. During drawing the panels I found some differences between Apollo and Skylab command modules and even between Apollo CM's. I guess I have to fix the label to just show the functions of our block II SC106 (Apollo 10).

The Skylab CM switch has 11 postitions (I think it is SC118?):

http://swatch.homeip.net/capsule2/slides/100_2097.JPG


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on November 29, 2007, 11:25:36 AM
I guess ideally we'd have both as separate bitmaps and put in the appropriate one; we'd also need to adjust the switches to have the appropriate number of positions. We already have a flag to say whether it's a Skylab CM which disables some switches.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 29, 2007, 11:52:11 AM
I guess ideally we'd have both as separate bitmaps and put in the appropriate one; we'd also need to adjust the switches to have the appropriate number of positions. We already have a flag to say whether it's a Skylab CM which disables some switches.

Okay, I'll draw both ;) Just tell me more details between skylab and apollo if you find some...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on November 29, 2007, 12:52:35 PM
Don't know, I'm afraid; I wasn't even aware there was that much difference on the control panels other than a few switches being removed (e.g. TLI).


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 29, 2007, 02:09:50 PM
Also airplane flightdecks of same aircraft types are partly different. It depends on customer wishes and the rather long production timeline. But for Apollo I guess it was because almost every mission was different, especially Skylab...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 29, 2007, 08:09:51 PM
I finally just committed the background bitmaps of the new panels:

- csm_lower_main_panel
- csm_lower_left_panel
- csm_right_cb_panels

But the panels are not yet implemented.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: jc121081 on November 29, 2007, 08:18:17 PM
Wow, now that was a pretty big CVS update!

Can't wait to try these out! Keep up the good work, Moonwalker!  :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 29, 2007, 08:29:46 PM
Wow, now that was a pretty big CVS update!

Can't wait to try these out! Keep up the good work, Moonwalker!  :ThumbsUp432:

:yes77:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on November 29, 2007, 11:51:14 PM
Looks good... do we have rotated number bitmaps for the mission timer and event timer, or should I just rotate them myself and check them in?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on November 30, 2007, 01:09:16 AM
I was actually looking at this and wondered if it wouldn't make more sense to rotate the panel itself.

Same thing for the circuit breakers on the other side....but you guys tell me.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 30, 2007, 06:45:10 AM
Mhhh, from my point of view it would be nice to present the panels just like they appear in the real command module...

But if you want them to be rotated it's no problem of course. On the other hand, it wouldn't be a problem to just include a few switches which can be used horizontally instead of vertically. Same for the mission and event timer ;)

Decision is up to you. What do others think about it?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on November 30, 2007, 07:08:57 AM
Actually, we have to include only a new switch class for panel 230/306. For the even timer we just need to rotate it's digits. Same for the talk-backs on panel 230 ;) 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on November 30, 2007, 09:44:34 AM
Mhhh, from my point of view it would be nice to present the panels just like they appear in the real command module...

I agree it would better from an accuracy point of view...but remember, to the astronauts inside, they did appear right side up.  ("There is no 'up' in space, only upside down."  ~Quoted from some astronaut that I never remember the name of...)  What I mean is that when the astronauts were using those panels, they were probably in the G/N bay and they would have been 'standing' in such a way that they looked correct.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on November 30, 2007, 09:48:10 AM
Maybe, but I think it makes more sense to have them the way they physically were in order not to confuse users. Rather than new classes we really just need a flag to say whether the switch is vertical or horizontal and change the mouse locations for 'up' and 'down' appropriately.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on November 30, 2007, 06:11:46 PM
I hardly figure out what it would be better concerning the panel orientation but I trend to agree with Swatch.
According to what I read about, even with no real upside down in weightlessness the human brain trends to naturally recreate a local vertical from the environment. So if a swich appears 90 off, I bet that, while in front of it, the astronaut rotates himself to "place" the switch in the "normal position". So it could be smart for us to rotate the panel.
It's just an idea...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: jc121081 on December 04, 2007, 03:29:07 PM
After talking this over with Moonwalker, perhaps it would be best that we remove or "cover up" the sim-bay panel (230) on the new bitmaps for the non sim-bay missions. Just a thought, but this has probably crossed a few other peoples' thoughts already, though.  :roll:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on December 04, 2007, 03:36:42 PM
Yeah, I was wondering about the Sim bay controls myself. I'd guess we can just fill in that area with a rectangle of solid color on missions which don't have one?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on December 04, 2007, 03:54:52 PM
I've integrated the new panels in the CSM the way you proposed, Moonwalker, they're looking great!  :ThumbsUp432:

I found some very small "pixel errors" in the center of the telescope reticle, also I further improved the Fuel Cell H2/O2 flow meter scale on panel 3 a little bit. Since these changes are easier to do than to explain :wink:, I already committed the changes, it would be great if you can integrate them in your master bitmaps.  :)

About the "panel rotation issue" I'm really not sure, I tend to agree with Moonwalker's and Movieman's argument of the "spatial cohesion"; since some of the panels are overlapping it would look a little bit strange, for example panel 275 on the right and the new cb panel. But I get a stiff neck when I use a rotated panel too long... I think I'd leave them as is given that the rotated panels aren't used very frequently as far as I know (but nevertheless essential, since we have panel 250 we can control the batteries correctly).

Yeah, I was wondering about the Sim bay controls myself. I'd guess we can just fill in that area with a rectangle of solid color on missions which don't have one?

I'm sure Moonwalker is happy to provide a nice-looking bitmap for that.  :)

Cheers
Tschachim

PS: I also committed the new IMFD communication support including a new TLI burn for the SIVB I'm going to explain later, just in case someone wonders about all these changes just for new panel bitmaps...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on December 04, 2007, 04:07:34 PM
I've integrated the new panels in the CSM the way you proposed, Moonwalker, they're looking great! 

BTW, I was thinking it would be a good idea to put Moonwalker's image showing how all the control panels are linked in the CSM onto the Wiki so it's clear to new users. Assuming it's not there already, anyway :).


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on December 04, 2007, 06:16:43 PM
I had the same thought, it's not in the wiki, so go ahead if you like.  :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 04, 2007, 06:32:12 PM
Thanks a lot Tschachim that you did the confusing job (at least for me) of implementing the new panels correctly to the latest splitted panel stuff :) I didn't check it yet but I'll do so tomorrow and continue implementing all the missing switches at the weekend. I'm also glad that we use the panels as drawn. When I started drawing the new panels I tried both ways, rotate them and present them like in the real CM. I found out, at least from my point of view, that it would be the best way to simulate them as shown in the real CM to not confuse users.   

Concerning panel 230: I'll do a good replacement background for it of course ;)

Ah by the way, before somebody puts the new panel preview image onto wiki, I have to fix a few things. There are at least two missing arrows which show how all the panels should be interconnected (I guess this also might be fixed within the latest code too then If you agree to...). I'll also add a list of all the panels and letters to make it easy to find panels rapidly for Apollo beginners. But maybe it's possible to update the image at wiki continuously? Then just add it for the moment... 

Great ideas and job guys :ThumbsUp432: I'm rather looking forward...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on December 04, 2007, 09:36:13 PM
Man, I'm away for a week and this project just moves.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how this goes, and I think we might be coming up on a new beta modules pack?

Just a thought as it seems we have gone leaps and bounds since the last pack even though that was only 2 weeks ago...

I am looking forward to hear about the TLI interface.  I'm working with IMFD right now to create realistic TLI calculations for use with quickstart to the moon, but obviously would be useful for standard and agc modes also.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on December 05, 2007, 01:38:23 PM
PS: I also committed the new IMFD communication support including a new TLI burn for the SIVB I'm going to explain later, just in case someone wonders about all these changes just for new panel bitmaps...

Hey, could you elaborate? I'm so curious.. :Excited432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on December 05, 2007, 02:10:11 PM
Hey, could you elaborate? I'm so curious.. :Excited432:

Look here: http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=1431.0  :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on December 06, 2007, 08:21:02 PM
WOW... the panel 10 is great... just under the docking tunel  :ThumbsUp432: :ThumbsUp432:

I saw many panel now....  :Jump534::Jump534::Jump534:

I saw 229,225,230,226,250,251,252,301,300,302,303 and 306

OUILLE great job.... SUPER THANKS


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on December 11, 2007, 05:38:17 PM
Just that we don't forget it, the SPS propellant temp meter on panel 3 is labeled with %, it should read F.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 14, 2007, 03:23:41 PM
Just that we don't forget it, the SPS propellant temp meter on panel 3 is labeled with %, it should read F.

Cheers
Tschachim

Not quite hard to fix :D ... ;)

And by the way, I have to replace the interior sound of the command module (the fans). I saw a clip of Apollo 8 inside the command module without any music or commentary in the background, but just with it's real audio. And I noticed and finally know that the air condition is louder than our current one and sounds different... (I already have a good sound file for it)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on December 14, 2007, 03:38:11 PM
COUGHpostclipCOUGHCOUGH :wink: :wink: :cool7777:

Also, at one time I think our fans were louder...but that was annoying.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 14, 2007, 03:49:16 PM
Because we need additional bitmaps for panel 101 and 230, how I have to do this: just adding the additional different parts of the background bitmaps for panel 101 and 230 or do I have to fix the large main background bitmaps and just to add panel 230 and the second version of 101 to CVS?

To remember: the left system test rotary on panel 101 needs to get 12 positions for Skylab flights, and the current 9 positions for Apollo flights. Panel 230 has to be replaced (by R8, R9 and R10 I think) for non-SIM bay missions.

http://historicspacecraft.com/Photos/Apollo_9_Misc_Stewart_Bailey_05.jpg

And antoher question: I found a good pdf file month ago which descripes almost all switch functions of the command module main and side panels (it's not the controls and displays pdf file) and I sadly can't remember where I got it from. Does anybody know which file I mean? :?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 14, 2007, 03:51:33 PM
COUGHpostclipCOUGHCOUGH :wink: :wink: :cool7777:

Also, at one time I think our fans were louder...but that was annoying.

I sadly can't post it yet because it's part of a documentary film...

And don't worry about the new cabin sound, it won't be annoying but much more realistic ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: jc121081 on December 14, 2007, 05:31:57 PM
I think there were some other low-audible sounds that could be heard when some systems were turned on or off, like when certain valves were closed (Ie. propellant, fuel cell, etc.), a slight "bump" could be heard. Other examples would be the SECS and pyro systems, optics repositioning sounds, propulsion "spool-up" sounds, and maybe a few others. Unfortunately, it's impossible to tell from reading documentation alone about what these actually sounded like. That's something that only those who flew the missions themselves would be able to support.  :roll:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 14, 2007, 07:00:29 PM
I think there were some other low-audible sounds that could be heard when some systems were turned on or off, like when certain valves were closed (Ie. propellant, fuel cell, etc.), a slight "bump" could be heard. Other examples would be the SECS and pyro systems, optics repositioning sounds, propulsion "spool-up" sounds, and maybe a few others. Unfortunately, it's impossible to tell from reading documentation alone about what these actually sounded like. That's something that only those who flew the missions themselves would be able to support.  :roll:

Every air conditiong system or kind of ECS sound (which isn't quiet at all) can be clearly assigend I think. If you listen to the ISS, Mir and Shuttle it doesn't sound that much different. Such systems don't differ that much. The difference is that the ISS and Mir was/is just a little bit louder. Fred Haise someday talked about that special sound environment and even the special "smell" within the command module which he'll never forget he sayd. If you could watch the interior video of Apollo I watched, you can clearly hear it (it's the typical sound). I already knew from interviews that it wasn't quiet in the command module, I just wanted to know that special sound and I finally got it. So I think we should try to include it. The current sound is rather unrealistic anyway...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on December 14, 2007, 10:35:19 PM
And antoher question: I found a good pdf file month ago which descripes almost all switch functions of the command module main and side panels (it's not the controls and displays pdf file) and I sadly can't remember where I got it from. Does anybody know which file I mean? :?

Is that the commandmodule.pdf file? Don't have a link, but Google should find it.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 15, 2007, 09:22:43 AM
And antoher question: I found a good pdf file month ago which descripes almost all switch functions of the command module main and side panels (it's not the controls and displays pdf file) and I sadly can't remember where I got it from. Does anybody know which file I mean? :?

Is that the commandmodule.pdf file? Don't have a link, but Google should find it.


Oh, I think yes, this probably is it. I didn't find any link using Google but I casually find a link here in this forum. Sadly it doesn't work anymore... :oops:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on December 15, 2007, 09:36:29 AM
Hi Moonwalker, This is the link:

http://www.pcpages.com/bobsworld/commandmodule.pdf


 :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 15, 2007, 12:34:23 PM
Thanks a lot. It works again. Tonight it didn't work...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 15, 2007, 01:16:12 PM
By the way, Tschachim, I'm wondering if the fuel cell O2 flow scale is labeled correctly now. Or maybe I have to read it in a different way?

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1285198/afe.jpg)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on December 15, 2007, 01:29:24 PM
Gosh, you're right, I messed up the O2 flow scale, it needs to have only 3 small lines between 0.4/0.8/1.2 as you already did it before, please correct my mistake.

Thanks
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 15, 2007, 01:57:32 PM
Hehe, I didn't expect that from you :P ;)

Of course it's no problem. I'll change a few things tonight anyway (panel 101 and 230 for the non-SIM bay missions...).


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on December 15, 2007, 02:29:25 PM
Hehe, I didn't expect that from you :P ;)

 :D ... I'm messing up enough, don't worry...  :wink:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 15, 2007, 02:34:58 PM
Hehe, I didn't expect that from you :P ;)

 :D ... I'm messing up enough, don't worry...  :wink:

As long as we don't see it... :D

;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on December 16, 2007, 04:28:14 PM
The next is an interresting draw about CSM internal view (from a french album call "SPIROU"). This photo is from the internet link (french orbiter Apolloman).

http://www.de-la-terre-a-la-lune.com/documents/images/spirou.jpg


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on December 20, 2007, 03:30:44 PM
Somebody posted in here asking about re-entry flames.... the following video should pretty much demonstrate what it would have looked like to our astronauts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muaOrUsU7gA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muaOrUsU7gA)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on December 20, 2007, 04:31:47 PM
Very impressive!
And all of that with 6 G's on the neck!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 20, 2007, 05:24:46 PM
Nice :) Although I already know how it looks like ;)

Would be great if we could make the reentry effects of Orbiter make visible within 2D and 3D window views...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 23, 2007, 10:49:03 PM
Merry Christmas from the panel-guy! :)

I have a small present for you:

http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/panel_management.jpg

You'll note that the area of panel 230 now should be correct for all non-SIM bay missions (before Apollo 15 I think?). Panel 230 has to be put on that background for it's corresponding missions. I also committed this preview as a pdf file in the Doc folder ;)

As far as I can see it, there is only one bitmap missing (for the 600's panel switches and panel 351). Beside the hatch, I'm going to committ all the latest changes on tuesday to almost finish my work on the CM panels. If you still need something, let me know! 

Ah, by the way: we now use the original controls for the sextant and telescope :yes77: Thanks goes to Swatch because of his great photos (I managed to add further real details)!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on December 24, 2007, 06:18:46 AM
Thanks Moonwalker. You did a great job.

Merry Christmass too  :D


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on December 24, 2007, 07:51:25 AM
Thanks Moonwalker and Merry Christmas!  :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: jc121081 on December 24, 2007, 08:25:20 AM
Thanks for the present Moonwalker! :ThumbsUp432: And a Merry Christmas to everyone. May it be a happy and safe one! :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on December 25, 2007, 01:22:01 AM
I also have a present for everybody...but its only partially right.

The LES covers are finally in place, but when I made the bitmaps I made them too small, so I'll correct the pixel offsets after Moonwalker posts his LES window covers.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 25, 2007, 09:28:33 AM
I also have a present for everybody...but its only partially right.

The LES covers are finally in place, but when I made the bitmaps I made them too small, so I'll correct the pixel offsets after Moonwalker posts his LES window covers.

Oh that's great :ThumbsUp432: That was something I really was waiting for a long time. Thanks a lot :) 

Window covers for the right rndz window will be committed together with all the other stuff still today...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on December 25, 2007, 10:49:44 AM
Thanks so much swatch for your LES covers.

Moonwalker, i'd like to understand you panel graphic and particulary about the B2 panel.

This panel is normaly inside the R10 closet OR you can open/close the R10 closet actually with the current NASSP 7.0 BETA ?

Thanks to inform me about this special thing ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 25, 2007, 12:26:24 PM
Moonwalker, i'd like to understand you panel graphic and particulary about the B2 panel.

This panel is normaly inside the R10 closet OR you can open/close the R10 closet actually with the current NASSP 7.0 BETA ?

Thanks to inform me about this special thing ;)

Well, B2 just shows panel 230, which contains the controls for the "Scientific Instrument Module". This panel, as well as the SIM-Bay itself, wasn't installed before Apollo 15 as far as I know. So, for all non-SIM-Bay missions, the right hand equipment bay will look like presented on B1. At Apollo 15 and up, panel 230 will just replace the R8, R9 and R10 "cupboards".

For coding, this means that panel 230 just has to be put above the R8, R9 and R10 cupboards. I can't do that but I'm rather sure somebody will pick up this work... ;) By the way, I also made a bitmap for the cupboard R9 (waste disposal). It's just eye candy but nevertheless nice to have it available. 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 25, 2007, 12:32:51 PM
Apollo 9 right hand equipment bay:

http://historicspacecraft.com/Photos/Apollo_9_Misc_Stewart_Bailey_05.jpg

Skylab right hand equipment bay:

http://swatch.homeip.net/capsule/1000186.JPG

;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on December 25, 2007, 12:50:13 PM
 
Moonwalker

Great explanation, and your photo is very fine.

Thanks. I understand. I know that CM version change all the time for each Apollo mission. That's a real chalenge to merge all these missions in one.

 :ThumbsUp432:


SWATCH

I re-compile my NASSP environment and your LES covers is terrific. VERY VERY pleasant  :ThumbsUp432: :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 25, 2007, 01:30:08 PM
I just updated the panel overview (the pdf file too) for better understanding of the panel 230 thing:

http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/panel_management.jpg


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on December 25, 2007, 01:37:08 PM
GREAT  :ThumbsUp432:

Just a question... i didn't see the following



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 25, 2007, 03:42:46 PM
Just a question... i didn't see the following.

The latest panels are not committed yet.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on December 25, 2007, 04:33:50 PM
OK  :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 26, 2007, 12:20:55 AM
I committed the latest panel stuff. Panels 300, 301, 302, 303 and 305 now work (so far). For panel 306 we need a new switch class "now" :P I already committed the required "rotated" bitmaps for panel 306:

- threeposswitch90_left.bmp
- digitaldisp90.bmp (for the mission timer)
- event_timer90.bmp

The right hand equipement bay now just shows the R8, R9 and R10 cupboards instead of panel 230, which is now "separated". For eye candy, the waste disposal bitmap is available too (csm_waste_disposal_rotary.bmp). I sadly can't implement it because the whole area of the R8, R9 and R10 cupboards has to be replaced by panel 230 too, for SIM-Bay-missions. Would be great if somebody could do this job. The bitmaps are available already:

- csm_panel_230.bmp
- threeposswitch90_right
- Indicator90.bmp (for the talkbacks)

The EMS button now works correct, and just looks perfect I think. By the way, I had to fix a few "visible" errors: the second digit (right side) of the EMS deltaV indicator was partly cut by the "dot" next to it. I had to adjust the distance by one pixel. Just a small but annoying visible bug ;) Nearly the same for the roll, pitch and yaw arrows of the FDAI's. On the real FDAI they don't appear "floating" on the white scales. The arrows are linked to a small black holder, so you can't see the white scale between the "attachement" and it's arrows. It was also just a matter of 1 pixel ;) This is a good example of what I mean: http://history.nasa.gov/ap16fj/pics/fdai_open1a_600.jpg

I'll add more and more stuff within the next days (basically implementing all the still missing switches)...


In case I forget; I have two special wishes concerning the main panel:

The EMS button sadly has no sound at the moment. Would be great if somebody could link the "buttonclick" sound to it. I just can't find the corresponding lines to do so :? Same for the ATTITUDE SET thumbwheels on panel 1 too. They do have sound but it's the wrong one. They sound like switches but should rather sound like all the other thumbwheels. Would be nice if somebody could correct these things or tell me where to find the corresponding lines for adding sound files to switches. The code changed a lot since the last time I looked to the sound files and it's links...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on December 26, 2007, 11:27:18 AM
You're right about the FDAI arrow. I saw the same detail as you. Great  :ThumbsUp432:

I did a test, and change the FDAI arrow like the following

Because the original is like the next

Thanks for the commit


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 27, 2007, 02:12:45 AM
You're right about the FDAI arrow. I saw the same detail as you. Great  :ThumbsUp432:

I did a test, and change the FDAI arrow like the following

Because the original is like the next

Thanks for the commit

Your arrow looks close to the real ones. I think I'll change them that way... :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 27, 2007, 02:27:34 AM
I just committed the latest changes:

Panels 10, 12, 276, 278 and 229 now work. For panel 12 we need the pressure differential simulation between the CM/LM. But the gauge bitmap for it already is available: "csm_cm-lm_press_diff_gauge.bmp". Panel 229 only works on the right hand side panel (the small part on the lower left side). You'll also note that the right hand side panel background changed a little bit once again, since I noted a few differences to the real one.

Just to talk about the system test rotary of panel 101 again: I noted that regardless of the rotary version (12 or 9 positions), the big label on cupboard B1 seemed to be presented on almost each command module. I just don't know if it shows always the same values. I also have to mention that the last row (DISPLAY, the right row) might not show historically correct values. The row sadly is covered by a belt on the corresponding photo. It was hard to recreate the row.

And there is another thing I would like to mention: I think when the circuit breakers of the AGC are pulled, the "VERB", "PROG", "NOUN" lights as well as the three lines below it, shouldn't light as they do at the moment.

Stand by for more changes soon...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on December 27, 2007, 01:25:40 PM
Hi Moonwalker,

thanks a lot for your latest additions.  :ThumbsUp432:

The EMS button sadly has no sound at the moment. Would be great if somebody could link the "buttonclick" sound to it. I just can't find the corresponding lines to do so :? Same for the ATTITUDE SET thumbwheels on panel 1 too. They do have sound but it's the wrong one. They sound like switches but should rather sound like all the other thumbwheels.

I fixed that and will commit that fix as soon as the RCS is in better shape than in my local copy currently.  :)

And there is another thing I would like to mention: I think when the circuit breakers of the AGC are pulled, the "VERB", "PROG", "NOUN" lights as well as the three lines below it, shouldn't light as they do at the moment.

No, the AGC and the 2 DSKYs use different power supplies, the DSKYs are controlled by the numerics interior/LEB lights rotaries and the lighting cb's on panel 226, but I'll connect that (together with a lot of other switches/cb's) before a release.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 27, 2007, 02:02:57 PM
The EMS button sadly has no sound at the moment. Would be great if somebody could link the "buttonclick" sound to it. I just can't find the corresponding lines to do so :? Same for the ATTITUDE SET thumbwheels on panel 1 too. They do have sound but it's the wrong one. They sound like switches but should rather sound like all the other thumbwheels.

I fixed that and will commit that fix as soon as the RCS is in better shape than in my local copy currently.  :)


That's great. Thanks :)

And there is another thing I would like to mention: I think when the circuit breakers of the AGC are pulled, the "VERB", "PROG", "NOUN" lights as well as the three lines below it, shouldn't light as they do at the moment.

No, the AGC and the 2 DSKYs use different power supplies, the DSKYs are controlled by the numerics interior/LEB lights rotaries and the lighting cb's on panel 226, but I'll connect that (together with a lot of other switches/cb's) before a release.

Ah, okay. I have to study the papers ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on December 27, 2007, 03:16:40 PM
By the way: Once the "Crew Module Panel Overview.pdf" is finished (at least for now), could we get a copy in a suitable image format for the wiki?  :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 27, 2007, 04:25:49 PM
Why not using this one? http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/panel_management.jpg

It's always up to date like the pdf file too ;)

You can use the link above whenever there is an update. I'll update it after each change.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: jc121081 on December 27, 2007, 04:33:30 PM
Thank you for all the new goodies Moonwalker! Great job! :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 28, 2007, 12:17:45 AM
... and here we go for another small update: the circuit breakers of panel 225 now work (right hand equipment bay).

PS: Tschachim, I defined just one area for the whole panel 225. I hope it's ok?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on December 28, 2007, 12:53:31 PM
Why not using this one? http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/panel_management.jpg
It's always up to date like the pdf file too ;)

Cool, thanks for pointing that out!

PS: Tschachim, I defined just one area for the whole panel 225. I hope it's ok?

Kinda lazy, eh?  :wink: No, it's fine for me, this panel doesn't have that many controls.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 28, 2007, 02:13:35 PM
PS: Tschachim, I defined just one area for the whole panel 225. I hope it's ok?

Kinda lazy, eh?  :wink: No, it's fine for me, this panel doesn't have that many controls.

You've got me there :D

I thought that for the CB panels it would be okay to just define one area. Actually I hurry up to almost finish my work on the CM panels still this year (the hatch and it's 600's subpanels is on the list this weekend...) ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on December 28, 2007, 04:31:16 PM
You can find the new FDAI Neddle after this (Exemple and ZIP)

And that's the result. Can you update the CVS for me. Thanks





Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 29, 2007, 11:51:24 AM
Panels 226, 250, 251 & 252 finally work. I didn't and don't work on panel 229 and 275 on the right hand equipment bay (not the right hand panels below the right window). They have to be connected to the panels 229 and 275 on the right hand side panels. I'm not quite sure how to do it. I fear I already used an unprofessional way to do so for panels 375 and 380 on the left hand side panels and left hand equipment bay. You might have a look on it Tschachim...

@Coussini: your needles are also included now. 

My coding work on the CM panels is almost finished now. The rest is up to you professionals ;)

The next graphical updates will be the side hatch, wide screen rendezvous windows and pixel corrections of the LES window covers.

 

http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/panel_management.jpg


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on December 29, 2007, 03:58:03 PM
I fear I already used an unprofessional way to do so for panels 375 and 380 on the left hand side panels and left hand equipment bay. You might have a look on it Tschachim... 

Do you mean using the same area id (AID_...) for the different panels? No, that's fine for me, simple and well working.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 29, 2007, 04:26:41 PM
I fear I already used an unprofessional way to do so for panels 375 and 380 on the left hand side panels and left hand equipment bay. You might have a look on it Tschachim... 

Do you mean using the same area id (AID_...) for the different panels? No, that's fine for me, simple and well working.

Oh. I didn't anticipate that it could be that easy and right to do :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on December 30, 2007, 05:19:16 PM
I CHANGE THE FDAI NEEDLE AGAIN. THAT'S MORE REALISTIC NOW  :D

YOU CAN SEE THAT THE ARROW IS CUT IN THE END. THAT LIKE THE REAL ONE NOW.

SEE THE NEXT AND THE ZIP FILE. CAN YOU UPDATE FOR ME



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on January 02, 2008, 12:34:51 PM
I didn't get the hatch finished "last year". But I'd call a progress of about 75% ;) Work continues as well.

@ Coussini, I think the latest arrows don't look like arrows anymore. They look a little bit "cut" now, compared to the real ones...

http://history.nasa.gov/ap16fj/pics/fdai_open1a_600.jpg

http://history.nasa.gov/ap08fj/pics/fdai.jpg


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on January 02, 2008, 03:05:30 PM
In these photo, you can see clearly the arrow cut in the end. BUT YOU CAN STAY WITH THE LAST. IT'S OK FOR ME.

http://www.space1.com/Artifacts/Apollo_Artifacts/FLOWN_FDAI/fdai_ap15_3_300.jpg

http://www.space1.com/Artifacts/Apollo_Artifacts/FLOWN_FDAI/Apollo_15_Panel/Ap15_S71-43745_crop.jpg


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on January 02, 2008, 05:44:47 PM
Mhhh, they are cut, but not that cut like your latest ones. Maybe I could cut them a little bit less... ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Eagle on January 03, 2008, 01:47:00 AM
im not trying to sound rude but when will this be fuctional?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on January 03, 2008, 03:00:04 AM
Eagle, if you'd read most of this thread you'd know that this is functional.  You are apparently having issues using it which I'm trying to help you with in the support thread you read.  Please help me out with this as I'd like to help you get started.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on March 03, 2008, 01:19:13 PM
I'm going to committ panels 600, 601 & 602 soon. My intention is to use these panels the way we use the docking panel on the rendezvous window: when you click on a certain area near the CM hatch, the corresponding 600's panel appears. So I think it would be good to put the three small panels just in one bitmap.

Any suggestions/other ideas?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: ryan on March 20, 2008, 06:37:00 PM
Hey guys i was just curious how Moonwalker was going on the panels, becuase i havnt seen him on the forum in a while and i was just wondering where exactly he was up to. All the panels look great by the way.
Thanks.
Ryan.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: lassombra on March 20, 2008, 07:47:20 PM
He's still around.

Development has been a bit slow all around, but we are getting really close to another major update for everyone!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on March 21, 2008, 10:58:49 AM
As you can see on my signature, the CSM panels are almost finished. I still have to committ the hatch and the 600's panels, which will happen soon (they are finished too, beside some updates I'll do here and there) ;)

For now, the main part of the project is to get almost all the panels and systems behind it working, which requires a lot of work. Sadly I'm not a programmer...

Tschachim and others are working on it, but still this will take some time...
 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on June 01, 2008, 07:08:09 AM
As noticed and requested by Tschachim, I've replaced 4 black circuit breakers by new yellow cb's. On Panel 5 & 250 you'll now find 2 yellow cb's each (GUIDANCE/NAVIGATION IMU HTR MNA & MNB on panel 5, and the two PYRO A cb's on panel 250). Because of the new yellow cb's, all the black cb's had to be updated too, to fit together optically. All committed already.

Latest preview: http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/panel_management.jpg

Next upcoming update (which is the finishing of the 2D CM instrument panels): the hatch (and of course wide screen rendezvous windows too, Tschachim ;) ).


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on June 01, 2008, 10:49:19 AM
Thanks a lot, one of the panel 250 cb's were mixed up, I fixed it already.
I'm looking forward to the hatch and rendezvous panels!  :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on June 01, 2008, 11:35:15 AM
Thanks a lot, one of the panel 250 cb's were mixed up, I fixed it already.

Then maybe there is a difference between the controls & displays pdf and other sources. The controls & displays pdf shows both PYRO A cb's filled black (which stands for yellow I guess) like the two IMU HTR cb's on panel 5 too.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on June 01, 2008, 12:05:49 PM
Yes, they are filled black (don't know if that means anything), but the text describing these cb's clearly states that the two BAT BUS A/B TO PYRO BUS TIE cb's are yellow. ...and for good reason by the way, they are both open normally and used only in case the pyro batteries fail. When closed inadvertently, the pyro batteries would be damaged, which would be rather bad.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on June 01, 2008, 01:23:58 PM
There are only four filled black cb's on the drawings an also 4 yellow cb's on the panels as far as I know. The two IMU HTR and the two PYRO A cb's concerning the drawings. On almost any CM photo of panel 5 we can see the two yellow IMU HTR cb's. I sadly don't have a photo of panel 250. But maybe the drawing is wrong. At least this wouldn't be the first time ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on June 01, 2008, 02:08:04 PM
I sadly don't have a photo of panel 250.

Looks like I can help:  :)
http://historicspacecraft.com/Photos/Spacecraft/Apollo_9_Misc_Stewart_Bailey_07.jpg

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on June 01, 2008, 02:45:59 PM
That's a good picture. Thanks :D

I have about 3.000 pictures of manned space flight, but I'm afraid that I still miss something...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: ryan on June 09, 2008, 02:05:06 AM
Hey guys, i have two questions. What is the approx time that you think Moonwalker that when you hit a CB or switch that how long does it take to react? also what happened to NASA Virtual, they were doing some stuff with Gemini and all that, and as i see your homepage is there site, but it says it's under mantinence?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on June 09, 2008, 09:18:03 AM
Hey guys, i have two questions. What is the approx time that you think Moonwalker that when you hit a CB or switch that how long does it take to react?

What do you exactly mean by how long does it take to react when I hit a CB?

also what happened to NASA Virtual, they were doing some stuff with Gemini and all that, and as i see your homepage is there site, but it says it's under mantinence?

The intention of NASA Vitual was and still is to simulate manned NASA programs as real as possible. This includes realistic systems simulations and instrument panels of course, at least in my point of view. Beside Project Apollo - NASSP, there is no comparable addon for Orbiter at the moment related to systems simulation. Because of the long work on Project Apollo we decided to close the site temporarily. But it will be online again together with the first release of Apollo 7... ;)

PS: Drawing instrument panels for Gemini was in palanning a few years ago, but it was postponed because of the complexity of Project Apollo.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: ryan on June 13, 2008, 12:36:06 AM
Never mind, i also noticed this.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/diagrams/ad019.gif
The LM pressureisation and the tunnel press dials are on the left side, NASSP has it on the right side. I noticed that out just for historical factors.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on June 13, 2008, 05:54:08 PM
Never mind, i also noticed this.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/diagrams/ad019.gif
The LM pressureisation and the tunnel press dials are on the left side, NASSP has it on the right side. I noticed that out just for historical factors.

Well, panels 10 & 12 don't appear at their correct locations on the drawing you posted because they would be upside down, still more not visible because they are located "beneath" the main panels. 

Have a look to the real locations of panel 10 &12:

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1230157/bf0.jpg)

and compare it with the NASSP locations

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1266154/8c0.jpg)

;)



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: ryan on June 13, 2008, 06:25:32 PM
Oh ok just checking, thats odd maybe your right maybe the diagram is supposed to be upside down.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: ryan on June 20, 2008, 08:30:17 PM
How do i get to panel 230 also in the future is it possible to combine all the panels, so you dont have to press Ctrl+arrow.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on June 21, 2008, 01:17:05 AM
How do i get to panel 230 also in the future is it possible to combine all the panels, so you dont have to press Ctrl+arrow.

Scrolling around a 10k x 10k pixel panel would be more trouble that using ctrl+arrow, I think :).

However, at some point we should have a working virtual cockpit that you could move around to any panel without switching from one to another.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on June 21, 2008, 10:26:05 AM
yup.... getting there....

Anyone up for making some textures?

EDIT:  I put together a care package for anyone who wants to work on the textures (Moonwalker, If you have time, I'd really like you to do them to keep style consistant)

Attached below is a zip file that contains 4 textures that need texturing (and 3 pictures to show where they go).  They need to stay somewhat consistant with Moonwalkers 2D textures, as that is what is currently covering ~70% of the VC.  If you need more reference pictures, I can provide some.

Once these 4 are done, the VC is close to release for ProjectApollo7.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on June 21, 2008, 02:39:56 PM
It will be a pleasure for me to work on the VC textures. Since I have good photos which cover part A, B and C very well I think it shouldn't be any problem to do some stuff... ;)

I'll start tomorrow with that...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: ryan on June 21, 2008, 08:00:22 PM
http://www.space1.com/Artifacts/Apollo_Artifacts/CM_Switches/cm_switches.html

Found some good pictures of some circuit breakers. Sorry if you already have them you know my luck wit these things  :sorry345:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on June 22, 2008, 12:03:19 AM
Great resource there.... I needed some pictures to use to texture the storage lockers, and you just provided them!  If you can find any more, that'd be great!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: ryan on June 22, 2008, 12:32:11 AM
Of the circuit breakers? I used my trusty friend google all hail google.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on June 22, 2008, 12:40:28 AM
no no... not the circuit breakers.... look around the site at the other Apollo artifacts.  They have some storage lockers that have been photographed outside of the Command Module... making shots that aren't possible in the modules on display.

EDIT:

It lets me do.....

THIS! (see attachment)

....but that was a pain in the butt when it comes to texturing.... 

Also, see that large pink monolith of untextured space?  I need suggestions or reference photos for that.... it's the lower equipment bay wall under the couches (below the hatch).  At the bottom of the picture is the heatshield. 


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: ryan on June 29, 2008, 09:46:56 PM
Moonwalker, i have a folder of some pictures of the panels and i cant find a way to get it to you, so i'll get it to you soon. It has some good pictures of the shape of the circuit breakers.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 06, 2008, 08:00:40 AM
Moonwalker, i have a folder of some pictures of the panels and i cant find a way to get it to you, so i'll get it to you soon. It has some good pictures of the shape of the circuit breakers.

Would be interesting to see them :)

I have about 4.000 photos of Apollo on my hard drives. Maybe the stuff you'll send me is something I don't have already... ;) 

Anyway, the cb's are finally finished. My current work is to finish the rest of the CM panels: the hatch (95% done already), the two wide screen rendezvous windows and a very few small changes you won't really notice.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 06, 2008, 08:08:05 AM
Today, when I updated my CVS files, I noticed that there is a new bitmap: 'csm_ORDEAL.bmp'. Please remember that if somebody works on any panel graphics changes should be requested here and new stuff reported as well. I have to update the original files which is about twice the number of bitmaps (basically all the templates) we have in the orbitersdk folders. Also, the bitmaps within the orbitersdk folders only are the compressed ones. Changes actually should be done by using the original 24bit bitmaps.

Anyway, the ordeal panel (panel 13) already is included on the big left hand side cabin press panel. Why do we have a separate panel 13 now?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: ryan on July 07, 2008, 02:46:23 AM
They are just some of them, please tell me if you have them or not.
The third one is from the ASTP.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 07, 2008, 09:06:57 AM
Yes I have such photos ;)

Not exactly the same photos but photos which cover the same parts and almost any interior part.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on July 07, 2008, 10:45:30 AM
Ryan.... probably you know... but your first photo is the inside cockpit of the LM ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 09, 2008, 07:55:25 AM
Anyway, the ordeal panel (panel 13) already is included on the big left hand side cabin press panel. Why do we have a separate panel 13 now?

As far as I know Swatch did that as we plan to display the ORDEAL panel as a kind of "popup" on the main panel in order to be able to use the slew button sensibly, look here: http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=1245.msg12095#msg12095

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: mikaelanderlund on July 21, 2008, 03:17:01 PM
As you can see on my signature, the CSM panels are almost finished. I still have to committ the hatch and the 600's panels, which will happen soon (they are finished too, beside some updates I'll do here and there) ;)

For now, the main part of the project is to get almost all the panels and systems behind it working, which requires a lot of work. Sadly I'm not a programmer...

Tschachim and others are working on it, but still this will take some time...
 

Any news about the 60X panels?

Mikael


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 22, 2008, 07:53:57 AM
Any news about the 60X panels?

Okay. Here you go for the 600's:

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1382592/60b.jpg)

And the hatch:

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1382593/462.jpg)

You'll notice that I already removed the vent valve lever, the switch below the pump handle as well as the switch on top of the gear box. They'll be included separately so this things can be animated and simulated in future. The 600's panels are designated to appear as pop up panels left and right next to the hatch (or any different ideas?).

I'll commit everything as soon as it's ready. I don't have a lot of time at the moment. Hope you like the hatch (the background still is in work...) and the 600's panels :)

By the way, I also removed some aging from the hatch. I don't want to fly with a hatch which is almost 35 years old... ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on July 22, 2008, 09:57:42 AM
Just one note... don't forget to flip hatch over for proper astronaut viewing perspective.


Not to bug, but have you had a chance to work on the textures I sent you?  If not, that's perfectly fine, I was just curious.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 22, 2008, 01:58:17 PM
Just one note... don't forget to flip hatch over for proper astronaut viewing perspective.

Rotating the hatch and its background 180 shouldn't be a problem :)

Not to bug, but have you had a chance to work on the textures I sent you?  If not, that's perfectly fine, I was just curious.

Not a lot yet. Sorry. I already just was looking for perfect background images of the CM interior. I'll start very soon...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: mikaelanderlund on July 22, 2008, 02:56:00 PM
Hi Moonwalker,

the 600 panels are very cool :cool7777:. Yes, I have notice that you removed the vent valve lever. Are you going to animate the PLVC switch and the 382 and 306 panels? It would be nice if we can animate the on/off switch for the oxygen main regulatore at panel 351. Do you know were the battery vent valve and LM pressure gage were located? I'm very happy for this cool panels :Excited432: :D.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on July 22, 2008, 04:07:22 PM
Not to bug, but have you had a chance to work on the textures I sent you?  If not, that's perfectly fine, I was just curious.

Not a lot yet. Sorry. I already just was looking for perfect background images of the CM interior. I'll start very soon...

Cool!  No rush, I was just curious.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on July 23, 2008, 11:51:53 AM
Great job... very nice  :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on July 23, 2008, 03:30:18 PM
Fabulous work, Moonwalker, as usual... :wink:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 24, 2008, 07:06:59 PM
Sorry for the late answer.

Are you going to animate the PLVC switch and the 382 and 306 panels? It would be nice if we can animate the on/off switch for the oxygen main regulatore at panel 351.

All the panels are supposed to work in future ;)

But I'm just the panel-guru of the 'visuals' of the instrument panels. I'm not a good programmer. For the working panels/systems we have to wait until Tschachim or somebody else implement them. We still need new switch classes which enable horizontal switches for panel 306 for example. The required bitmaps already exist...

Do you know were the battery vent valve and LM pressure gage were located? I'm very happy for this cool panels :Excited432: :D.

I don't know about the battery vent valve but the LM pressure gauge you mean is on panel 12 I think (below the main instrument panels).


PS: Thanks for the compliments guys.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on August 07, 2008, 09:27:41 AM
Hi Moonwalker,

I finally began to wire up the new ECS panels and have 2 requests/questions:

  • On panel 351 the CABIN REPRESS valve is wrongly labled CABIN PRESS.
  • There's a bitmap called "csm_panel_382_cover.bmp". Does that mean panel 382 is covered with this bitmap normally?

The hatch and the 600s panels are looking great, can't wait for the final version.  :ThumbsUp432:

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 08, 2008, 08:09:04 AM
Hi Tschachim,

great news regarding the ECS panels! Of course i'll fix the CABIN PRESS label. Regarding panel 382, i tried to use photos as a reference not only drawings but i noticed that the whole panel apparently was covered (maybe cautionary?):

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1389031/c1d.jpg)

But i don't have any information about it yet. So i decided to draw a cover as a precaution ;)

PS: the hatch will be committed soon. I'm also busy at the moment with the VC textures requested by Swatch :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on August 08, 2008, 06:11:07 PM
OK, the cover looks correct for me, thanks for the preparation, well done!  :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 26, 2008, 09:51:08 PM
I have a present for you Moonwalker....


LINK TO PHOTOS from my Trip to Kasas Cosmosphere (http://picasaweb.google.com/swatch04/HutchinsonCosmosphere)

...below are a few of the ones that I think you'll be most interested in.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/swatch04/SLTTJ5C_tOI/AAAAAAAADB4/mxITVhQNpCI/s144/PictureDownload%20493.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/swatch04/HutchinsonCosmosphere/photo#5239044433424397538)(http://lh4.ggpht.com/swatch04/SLTTK4wQY7I/AAAAAAAADCA/VMUX8ESWMfY/s144/PictureDownload%20494.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/swatch04/HutchinsonCosmosphere/photo#5239044450525668274)(http://lh6.ggpht.com/swatch04/SLTTL6YexYI/AAAAAAAADCI/KS5F66GdrZ4/s144/PictureDownload%20495.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/swatch04/HutchinsonCosmosphere/photo#5239044468142687618)
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/swatch04/SLTTMnCzL0I/AAAAAAAADCQ/bQNuCTvC0MU/s144/PictureDownload%20496.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/swatch04/HutchinsonCosmosphere/photo#5239044480131346242)(http://lh6.ggpht.com/swatch04/SLTTNkXzxPI/AAAAAAAADCY/f6FrWaBioDQ/s144/PictureDownload%20497.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/swatch04/HutchinsonCosmosphere/photo#5239044496594027762)(http://lh6.ggpht.com/swatch04/SLTTOResimI/AAAAAAAADCg/MuX_A-HkrCY/s144/PictureDownload%20498.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/swatch04/HutchinsonCosmosphere/photo#5239044508702509666)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/swatch04/SLTTl8GJ7NI/AAAAAAAADGI/LrkGQM6pXBE/s144/PictureDownload%20526.jpg") (http://picasaweb.google.com/swatch04/HutchinsonCosmosphere/photo#5239044915279293650)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on August 27, 2008, 09:07:27 AM
Great photo  :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 27, 2008, 09:45:05 AM
I have a present for you Moonwalker....

That's great! I have to add them to my Apollo encyclopedia which I started to collect in 2003. And the galleries grow and grow... :)

Thanks a lot :ThumbsUp432:

I'll see what I can do to put the original tunnel hatch on the background of our main instrument panels...

Are you going to use the hatch photos for the VC?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 27, 2008, 10:18:48 AM
I am.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 27, 2008, 10:45:18 AM
I am.

:ThumbsUp432: :Excited432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 29, 2008, 03:07:16 PM
The side hatch is almost finished now. I didn't manage to present it altogether including the background (hinges and such stuff) because I don't have any large photo which shows how the hatch looks like from inside, closed during the missions. Also, recreating the background didn't look rather realistically together with the "real" hatch bitmap. So I decided to pick just the most important center part, inlcuding the window and the important controls left and right next to it. It turned out that the currend size actually looks much more amazing than a complete smaller hatch. On my display it almost apperas in its original size I think (with a resolution of 1280x1024). The hatch has a resolution of 1680x1350 to avoid an extra wide screen version this time.

I'll commit the latest stuff this weekend.

This is how the hatch looks like finally (panels are always shown true to scale):

http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/panel_management.jpg

I'm going to add the original tunnel hatch to the main panel still today, based on the latest photos posted by Swatch. Thanks a lot once again :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on August 30, 2008, 06:46:29 AM
Great great work Moonwalker!  :ThumbsUp432:

Can't wait the side hatch is wired up and functionnal to play Dave Scott making his fabulous EVA while Apollo 9!  :roll:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 31, 2008, 03:45:46 PM
The final version of the side hatch is available now. For now we have three control elements (only graphics at the moment):

- the gear box rotary (csm_gear_box_rotary.bmp; intended position: 1409, 45, 1649, 285; size: 240x240; positions: 60-90-120)
- the pump handle rotary (csm_pump_handle_rotary.bmp; intended position: 1275, 534, 1515, 774; size: 240x240; positions: 150-180-210)
- the vent valve handle (csm_vent_valve_handle.bmp; intended position: 64, 703, 328, 967; size: 264x264; 12 positions by increments of 30)

I can't wait to be able to operate the controls of the side hatch. Maybe we could add a click-erea on the handle (that one on the top, above the window) for starting the EVA. Also, I've added a few screws on the right hand side CB panels which I forgot to add earlier. Just eye candy. And of course I've corrected the CABIN REPRESS label on panel 351 ;)

http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/panel_management.jpg (but you can also have a look at the "Crew Module Panel Overview" PDF file within the doc folder)

Upcoming final major update: wide screen rendezvous windows & the original forward (docking) hatch below the main panel...


Can't wait the side hatch is wired up and functionnal to play Dave Scott making his fabulous EVA while Apollo 9!  :roll:

Me too :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on September 07, 2008, 11:20:56 AM
Hey Moonwalker.... ya want to use this?  I'm still cleaning it up, but almost there.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on September 08, 2008, 02:52:24 PM
It looks awesome :ThumbsUp432:

Can't wait to see it in the VC. I'll use it for the 2D stuff too. But you're right, the dirt has to disappear ;)

Thanks a lot.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on September 08, 2008, 04:56:47 PM
Ho ho.... nice job  :yes77:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on October 02, 2008, 05:42:17 PM
Just to let you know that the wide screen versions of the rendezvous windows are finished now. I had to add something to the left and right side which doesn't exist actually.

The current resolution is 1680x1024. I'm not sure if this is correct. Please let me know so that I can commit the new windows finally.

(http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/window.jpg)

(http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/window_wide.jpg)


Despite the still missing forward hatch (which will be committed soon), the Command Module instrument panels are almost 100% finished now as long as we don't need any further small updates :yes77:

I think Apollo 7 gets within one's reach...

PS: If we can get new switch classes (horizontal positions instead vertical) I can at least wire them up on panel 306 (and maybe get the mission timer to work) ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on October 03, 2008, 06:34:33 AM
Hi Moonwalker!
I have a question:
Does the angles mark on the windscreen match the real and for which combination of resolution/FOV ?
I mean: If for example you may want to align the earth horizon to the 29 mark (like the earth orbit entry procedure requires), does it make the vessel to be at really 29 pitch?

I guess this depends on the FOV ?..


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on October 03, 2008, 08:11:15 AM
The current resolution is 1680x1024. I'm not sure if this is correct.

No, it needs to be 1680x1050 to have the 1.6 display ratio. Besides that small issue the panels are looking great!  :ThumbsUp432:

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on October 03, 2008, 08:18:27 AM
The current resolution is 1680x1024. I'm not sure if this is correct.

No, it needs to be 1680x1050 to have the 1.6 display ratio. Besides that small issue the panels are looking great!  :ThumbsUp432:

Okay :) Not a problem to add further 13 lines on top and bottom of the window.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on October 03, 2008, 08:26:35 AM
Hi Moonwalker!
I have a question:
Does the angles mark on the windscreen match the real and for which combination of resolution/FOV ?
I mean: If for example you may want to align the earth horizon to the 29 mark (like the earth orbit entry procedure requires), does it make the vessel to be at really 29 pitch?

I guess this depends on the FOV ?..

That's something I asked myself too last night while I was working on the windows. The marks match the real yes but I'm not sure if they match the angles within Orbiter. Luckily I've made templates of the angle marks (and blank windows) so it is no problem to change the marks positions easily. I'll have a look at it. But I think we should use a FOV of 50 for that. I don't remember exactly where I read it, but I read sometime ago that a FOV of 50 within Orbiter can be assumed as realistic.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on October 05, 2008, 02:17:24 PM
On the entry checklist I've written to set FOV at 40 while using the COAS window in order to align for entry preparation. But it was a long time ago with different panels graphics.
I think we should make some test with the new one.

Anyway your work is outstanding, Moonwalker. It's a huge contribution for the project. Great thanks.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on October 06, 2008, 04:29:24 AM
Thanks Christophe. I wish I could do much more, especially coding. There is a lot of work required for the Lunar Module and the lunar EVA's...

Anyway, I'll commit the latest version of the rendezvous windows soon, together with the new original forward hatch on the main panel. This will almost complete my work on the CM panels finally so that I can change over to complete the new full LM panels too. All that still within this year :)



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: ryan on October 06, 2008, 05:32:04 AM
Thanks Christophe. I wish I could do much more, especially coding. There is a lot of work required for the Lunar Module and the lunar EVA's...

Anyway, I'll commit the latest version of the rendezvous windows soon, together with the new original forward hatch on the main panel. This will almost complete my work on the CM panels finally so that I can change over to complete the new full LM panels too. All that still within this year :)



Seems like your going to keep yourself busy this year :wink:
Great work.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on October 06, 2008, 02:20:57 PM
This is how the latest (and this time the final) version of the main panel is going to look like...

(http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/main_new.jpg)

The forward hatch only has to be cleaned to let it look a little bit younger than 3 decades ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Christophe on October 07, 2008, 10:56:23 AM
It's really a fantastic look!
Compare to the early NCCP panels a few years ago we may realize the progress. It's amazing.
I remember 20 years ago, before the age of internet, while readings some public books about apollo, I was dreaming to get something like this sim. It was only a dream I couldn't believe to become true one day.  :roll:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on October 07, 2008, 01:31:59 PM
It's really a fantastic look!
Compare to the early NCCP panels a few years ago we may realize the progress. It's amazing.

It's strange when I look at the old work :)

We should replace the older graphics in the wiki and on sourceforge with the new ones by the way...

I remember 20 years ago, before the age of internet, while readings some public books about apollo, I was dreaming to get something like this sim. It was only a dream I couldn't believe to become true one day.  :roll:

Same for me. It wasn't 20 years ago but 16 years ago at the time of Commodore and Amiga computers. I was using "Shuttle" by Virgin Games, and I already thought about an Apollo simulation at that time. I imagined that some day, somehow, I'm going to work on such a simulation in case nobody else does.

Almost ten years later, when Orbiter was published and improved by OrbiterSound and another nice addons, I thought: okay, the writing is on the wall now finally. I started to draw my first instrument panels, but for the Shuttle which partly still exist in the MEDS project for Orbiter (http://www.pixelcartoon.it/orbiter/meds/images/fullsizefront.jpg). Soon I started to draw my first Apollo panels which were part or "Project Moonwalker" initially (so you know where my nickname comes from :D). But I never really expected to get something like Project Apollo - NASSP at that time, while NASSP still was a different and rather simple addon by Jean-Luc (a very nice French guy by the way; I didn't hear from him for a long time). I think it was 2003 to 2004. Then I met Tschachim, LUCKILY. Or lets say he contacted me because in a way he somehow came across my Moonwalker panels which were anything but comparable to what we have now (I didn't even intend to do the side panels at that time because I still thought we don't need that much complexity... :awwcrap4253:). Anyway, so here we are :Excited432:

I'm not quite sure where this journey ends. But I fear it will rather end on, well... the Moon :ThumbsUp432:

Let's continue!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on October 07, 2008, 06:35:56 PM
Ho boy.... that's great  :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: ryan on October 08, 2008, 03:59:50 AM
Hey guys, i found a picture of Columbia it might be too late to use though.
I couldnt find a direct link so...
http://www.apolloarchive.com/apollo_gallery.html

Click on ''Image ID'' then type AS11-36-5387.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on October 08, 2008, 05:56:02 AM
Hey guys, i found a picture of Columbia it might be too late to use though.
I couldnt find a direct link so...
http://www.apolloarchive.com/apollo_gallery.html

Click on ''Image ID'' then type AS11-36-5387.

Thanks :) I still have to add all those galleries to my personal NASA archive.

It is not really too late to use some of those photos for our project. I think once we've gone beyond beta status, including a working Lunar Module, we could start to "individualize" our crew modules (2D as well as 3D). But that's dreams of the future of NASSP.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on December 18, 2008, 09:26:33 PM
I've updated the final version of the left and right rendezvous windows and committed its wide screen versions finally. Have fun to implement the new wide screen windows Tschachim :) (don't forget to add the altimeter on the left window)

The next commitment will be the forward hatch just below the main panel (almost finished, I just have to remove some aging), which completes the work on the CSM main panels and gives it a go for an Apollo 7 release ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on December 21, 2008, 11:37:37 AM
Hi Moonwalker,

thanks a lot, I already tried them in my local copy, they're looking really beautiful, great job!  :ThumbsUp432:
Of course I'll adjust the altimeter, the window covers etc. on the new panels. I'm still working on the hatch, I hope I'll have something ready soon.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on February 24, 2009, 08:50:16 PM
Meanwhile I abandoned my plans and work to put the original forward hatch on the 2d main instrument panel. I've learned if something does not look 100% satisfying (it is too coarse-grained sadly), better remove it because it is going to look more and more unsatisfying the more often you look at it. The current cover of the forward hatch (which really existed regarding photos) still looks better and fits perfectly to the 2D panels. The real hatch will be visible within the great VC of Swatch anyway.

So, I've completed my work on the 2D CM instrument panels (http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/panel_management.jpg). However, subject to modifications remain to our coders, in case they need/miss anything.

We really need to get something done this year. My focus will be the LM panels, graphically as well as functionality of switches and gauges as far as possible. I hope somebody else jumps onto the boat too, to finally make the LM what the CSM already is like... :)


PS: if you need anything for the side hatch Tschachim, let me know.


Best Regards


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on February 26, 2009, 09:07:33 AM
Hi Moonwalker,

thanks for the update!  :)

The side hatch is complete thus far, if you do a CVS Update you can try by yourself, but I have another question: How shall I integrate the 600s panels? As far as I understand it, they are between the main panel and the side hatch?

... and a small request: Could you do a graphic for the main regulator valves on panel 351, they look similar to the "csm_panel_600_switch.bmp"?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on February 26, 2009, 12:24:42 PM
Yesterday i tried a CVS update but it's still not working.

Somebody have a problem with CVS update ?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on February 26, 2009, 08:49:58 PM
How shall I integrate the 600s panels? As far as I understand it, they are between the main panel and the side hatch?

Mhhh, I think, regarding the NASA drawings, they are located below the side hatch/above the center seat. Look at the panel management diagram for the 600s panels ("Upper Equipment Bay", lower left corner, the left part of the split CM drawing).

http://www.nasa-virtual.com/project_apollo/instrument_panels/cm_panel_management.jpg

My idea was to put them to the bottom of our side hatch panel (left and right side) as pop up panels. 602 to bottom left and 600 above it, and 601 to bottom right.

... and a small request: Could you do a graphic for the main regulator valves on panel 351, they look similar to the "csm_panel_600_switch.bmp"??

Of course I'll do them :) I think it is basically the same type of switch used for the 600s panels, but just horizontally switchable in case of our panels.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on February 28, 2009, 01:56:42 PM
My idea was to put them to the bottom of our side hatch panel (left and right side) as pop up panels. 602 to bottom left and 600 above it, and 601 to bottom right.

What do you mean with "popup panels"? They appear if you click something like the MFDs on the main panel?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on March 01, 2009, 07:26:16 AM
What do you mean with "popup panels"? They appear if you click something like the MFDs on the main panel?

Yes :)

But of course it is just my idea. If you want to do it a different way don't hesitate ;)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on June 18, 2009, 06:08:16 AM
Hi Moonwalker,

while working on Panel 352 I found a wrong label: the WASTE TANK INLET labels should read AUTO/CLOSE, not OPEN/CLOSE, see attached screenshot. By the way, I know you did these valves like the AOH shows them, but I'm a little bit confused how they are meant to read, which of the 2 valves in my screenshot is open, the upper or the lower one?

Also I don't have a good photo of this panel, the only one I have is attached. You can see Panel 352 in the lower right corner of it and it looks like the valves look a bit different to the AOH drawings, at least they seem to have a "bar" on it, perhaps pointing to the currently active position, but I'm not sure. Do you have a better photo and what do you (and of course all others) think about that?

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on June 27, 2009, 06:14:21 AM
Hello Taschachim :)

Sorry for the late answer (I became 30 two weeks ago so I had some wild days and parties :D). I found one photo within my Apollo archive, I think it's the Apollo 9 CSM, which shows panel 352. It looks like there was small pointers or bars on the valves and as far as I could see it no ON and OFF labels. That would make the usage of the knobs rather easy ;) I also did not understand how to use those valves when I was drawing them. If you would like to take a look to the photo I can upload it. And of course I'll fix the wrong lable.

PS: I'm currently thinking of changing to Windows 7 basically. But I'm not quite sure if Orbiter 2009 would run on it. I'll try the beta today. I also hope we won't have problems transfering Project Apollo to Orbiter 2009 in future. If that all works, including Visual Basic in Windows 7, then Windows XP is going to become history for me other than planned initially, since even Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004 runs in Windows 7. But I guess we'll discuss that in a different thread...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on June 29, 2009, 08:41:00 AM
Sorry for the late answer (I became 30 two weeks ago so I had some wild days and parties :D).

Sounds great!  :D

I found one photo within my Apollo archive, I think it's the Apollo 9 CSM, which shows panel 352. It looks like there was small pointers or bars on the valves and as far as I could see it no ON and OFF labels. That would make the usage of the knobs rather easy ;) I also did not understand how to use those valves when I was drawing them. If you would like to take a look to the photo I can upload it.

Yes, I'd like to see that photo. Also it would be great if you can change the knobs according to the photo.  :)

I also hope we won't have problems transfering Project Apollo to Orbiter 2009 in future.

Look here: http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=2114.0

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on July 11, 2009, 02:28:50 PM
Sorry for the delays Tschachim. It's a little bit stressful at the moment. My traineeship is going to end on July 24th, and only three month ahead I'll have my exam. But 2010 is going to be a really nice year from the occupational and financial point of view... :)

Anyway, here is the image:

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1504564/f37.jpg)

I guess I simply replace the ON/OFF lables by an arrow.



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on July 11, 2009, 03:28:34 PM
I guess I simply replace the ON/OFF lables by an arrow.

That would be fine!  :ThumbsUp432:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on July 30, 2009, 05:43:34 AM
http://www.space1.com/About_Us/In_the_Works/Apollo_Hatch/apollo_hatch.html



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on July 30, 2009, 07:10:56 PM
Moonwalker... when you return, I have a crew tunnel started for you...

Its mostly there... I just need you to ad the finishing touches on it.  If I remember correctly you use PaintShopPro.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 06, 2009, 09:02:38 AM
Looks awesome! I guess it means that we'll get an opening/closing forward hatch within the VC? :shock:

What do you need me to do on the bitmap?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Swatch on August 06, 2009, 05:05:02 PM
There are some things that need cleaning up... mainly the fact that I outlined everything.  Also I don't have any good reference photos for the missing stowage labels around station 12 and 11.


Also, I have an Apollo Optical Telescope panel (already committed) that I need you to do your magic on for the LEM.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 06, 2009, 05:57:55 PM
Okay, I'll have a look at all the stuff this weekend. Let's see if I can do any "magic" on it... :D


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 08, 2009, 02:44:26 PM
Tschachim:

all requested changes have been committed. This includes updates on panel 351 (an updated "press to test" button, nothing special), 352 (new valves and lable correction) and 382 (lable correction). "csm_press_relief_valve.bmp" has been updated as well. "csm_tank_valve.bmp" becomes obsolete. However, I did not touch/moved it to the obsolete folder because I'm not aware if you are using it right now or not.

Obviously NASA used different selectors and different panel 352s on different command modules, which additionally differ from almost all panel drawings. So I decided to use only one kind of selector for our panel 352.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on August 10, 2009, 09:40:28 AM
Great!  :ThumbsUp432:

I've committed the corresponding ECS changes and enhancements, the ECS should be fine for the release now (well, except bugs of course). Next I'm going to take a look at Checklist MFD, but at first I probably going to test the new Orbiter beta a little bit...  :)

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 10, 2009, 11:56:30 AM
Great news Tschachim. And I just figured out that the hatch already works as well :Excited432:

But, Tschachim, could you do one more thing for the release? Could you do a new switch class for panel 306? So we could wire up that panel, including the second event and mission timer on it :) That would almost make the complete panels working, beside a few circuit breakers on the right hand equipemt bay panels (I'll wire them up soon), and the R9 waste disposal eye candy panel (bitmaps are already available).


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on August 10, 2009, 04:58:29 PM
Could you do a new switch class for panel 306?

A kinda "VerticalThreePosSwitch"? I'll take a look.

...and the R9 waste disposal eye candy panel (bitmaps are already available).

R9 is working already!  :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 10, 2009, 05:28:22 PM
A kinda "VerticalThreePosSwitch"? I'll take a look.

At least it should be horizontally switchable ;)

R9 is working already!  :)

Oh. But for some reason it does not work for me. Does it work on certain scenarios only?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on August 10, 2009, 06:44:08 PM
Oh. But for some reason it does not work for me. Does it work on certain scenarios only?

No, nothing special, just a CVS Update and compiling the modules...  :?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 11, 2009, 08:28:56 AM
It works perfectly :Excited432:

I should update more often... :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on August 12, 2009, 06:35:42 PM
Could you do a new switch class for panel 306?

Done, the ToggleSwitch (and thus all subclasses) now have a SetSideways function, I did the EventTimerUpDown306Switch as an example.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on August 13, 2009, 09:11:43 AM
Done, the ToggleSwitch (and thus all subclasses) now have a SetSideways function, I did the EventTimerUpDown306Switch as an example.

Awesome. Thanks :)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on May 02, 2010, 10:35:16 AM
Today I wanted to commit the final Apollo 7 release version of the 2D instrument panels :)

I've set the corresponding bitmaps to "edit" and replaced them by the latest ones. But after compiling, the new bitmaps do not appear when I run Orbiter! Instead there are still the old ones visible. Did something of the code change? Do I have to do more than just set the bitmaps to edit? (just in case: of course I have replaced the old dll's by the latest ones in the Orbiter modules folder ;))

Anyway, the changes of the final Apollo 7 release panels are not significant. I've just updated the EMS, the DSKY, the altimeter on panel 1 and a few other minor things. Also, the new COAS that exists in the LM will be avbailbe within the CM as well once I've commited the final changes. From my side, talking about the graphical artwork (not coding), these now are the final CM bitmaps ready for any release of Apollo 7 and up...


On the DSKY you will notice new buttons (actually "original" ones I've taken from a photo) and a slightly new colour of the right display (the reference I used earlier was not showing the panel in its correct colours):

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1585336/fcc.jpg)


The final EMS:

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1585338/08b.jpg)

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1585337/815.jpg)


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: dseagrav on May 02, 2010, 02:47:18 PM
I did some updating in the LM this morning but I don't think we collided.
IIRC you had to somehow tell VS when you changed a bitmap file, but I don't remember the specifics.
I did an update just now and it shows no new changes; Did your new bitmaps commit to CVS properly?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on May 02, 2010, 04:22:42 PM
I did not yet commit the new stuff. I just started to replace the corresponding old bitmaps by the new ones and look if it works (I have to correct a few positions of gauges as well, and also to add the new digits from the LEM mission timer to the CSM mission timer for example). When I compile I do not see any new bitmaps when running Orbiter for now. Strange.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: dseagrav on May 02, 2010, 04:39:56 PM
Which VS version do you have?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on May 02, 2010, 06:21:01 PM
It's 6.0.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: dseagrav on May 02, 2010, 08:11:00 PM
I don't have 6.0 anymore, so I can't check this, but ISTR having to tell VS whenever I changed a bitmap. Maybe by rightclicking the file in the resource list and messing around with it? Maybe I had to delete and re-add it? I don't remember. I remember there was a hole to fall in regarding VS screwing up the AID list, but I can't seem to remember the specifics.



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on May 03, 2010, 06:09:45 AM
Since the code was changed (and looks more clean now thankfully), I'm noticing severe trouble whilst trying to change bitmaps and panel stuff and make it visible in Orbiter. I at least managed how to make the latest bitmaps visible in Orbiter: I just have to delete any previous dll's before I compile the latest ones. But now any further changes are not visible in Orbiter. Even when I compile the dll's from scratch, the changes are not visible at all when running Orbiter. This is really strange because within VS the latest bitmaps are visible and I did the corresponding changes in the code. But for some reason VS does not seem to compile it properly "anymore" :?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: dseagrav on May 03, 2010, 06:21:05 AM
You closed Orbiter when you compiled, right? One of the last things VS does in a build is to copy the new DLLs into the Orbiter directory, and it will fail if Windows thinks the files are in use.
Maybe try a reboot?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on May 03, 2010, 06:32:05 AM
Yes of course I close Orbiter each time before I do anything in VS ;)

And I've noticed another strange thing just a few minutes ago: suddenly the ProjectApollo SDK folder contains much more files. I was already wondering how much you guys cleaned it up :ROTFL3453: After I have reverted my edits, there are currently much more files within the SDK folder. Is this a potential CVS issue?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on May 03, 2010, 06:35:31 AM
I now do a clean install of Orbiter and download the entire CVS project files from scratch.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: dseagrav on May 03, 2010, 07:39:01 AM
That is highly unusual.
Does this mean you lost your work?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on May 03, 2010, 08:23:50 AM
Does this mean you lost your work?

No :) I always do a backup of values/stuff I change.

Meanwhile I figured out the cause of the issues: I do not get the entire code/SDK via CVS when I do a checkout. Any idea for the reason? My CVS settings are correct.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: dseagrav on May 03, 2010, 11:19:12 AM
No idea. What's missing?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on May 03, 2010, 12:10:35 PM
No CVS problems here, too.
Some ideas:

- When using VC6, use the release configuration, not debug (Erstellen - Aktive Konfiguration festlegen). For me, VC6 debug isn't working anymore, our stuff grew too big...
- Use "rebuild all" (Erstellen - Alles neu erstellen), then it doesn't matter if a file has changed or not.

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on May 03, 2010, 12:46:42 PM
Some ideas:

- When using VC6, use the release configuration, not debug (Erstellen - Aktive Konfiguration festlegen). For me, VC6 debug isn't working anymore, our stuff grew too big...
- Use "rebuild all" (Erstellen - Alles neu erstellen), then it doesn't matter if a file has changed or not.

That's exactly the way I'm always doing it.

I figured out that there is definately something missing after CVS checkout. I do not get the entire files obviously.

That's how my ProjectApollo folder looks like:

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1585442/a5c.jpg)

It seems to be a CVS issue :what343:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: dseagrav on May 03, 2010, 12:59:45 PM
No, that's it.
All the files were moved to subfolders.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on May 03, 2010, 01:13:51 PM
All the files were moved to subfolders.

Now I'm even more confused. Because earlier this day, when I reverted my changes, the folder looked totally different suddenly.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on May 03, 2010, 01:31:35 PM
I'll give it another try with a clean and fresh Orbiter installation and CVS checkout. Let's see if it somehow works this time...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: dseagrav on May 03, 2010, 03:34:56 PM
Now I'm even more confused. Because earlier this day, when I reverted my changes, the folder looked totally different suddenly.
Well, I wanted to make sure, so I compared it to what I have right now, and they match.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on May 04, 2010, 12:58:02 PM
Now I'm even more confused. Because earlier this day, when I reverted my changes, the folder looked totally different suddenly.
Well, I wanted to make sure, so I compared it to what I have right now, and they match.

Yes, no problem. Luckily it now seems to work fine after clean installations. I will commit the final stuff very soon...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on May 05, 2010, 09:06:16 PM
Final changes commited:

- as mentioned -> the new DSKY and EMS
- all buttons now "press in" visually (abort buttons, DSKY buttons etc.)
- new mission clock bitmaps added (the one that is located within the Lunar Module; should be of the same type as shown on NASA photos)
- a few more minor changes... (like making the windows look 100% "closed" by the launch escape system; the lower 5 CB switches of panel 275 now work on the lower right panel as well, etc...)

I have also removed the dummy switch on panel 3 by the way (right next to the PCM BIT RATE switch), as there was no dummy switches installed regarding NASA photos.

I'm still getting a headach with placing the COAS and the new altimeter bitmap to the correct positions on the left rendezvous window. Tschachim, maybe you could have a look at it? :) The COAS size now is 683 x 627. The new altimeter bitmap did not change in size. I've already entered the new positions (for the non-wide window?) but it somehow won't show up correctly on the rendezvous window...

Well, that's it. There won't be any other graphical changes from now on. Unless somebody of the team has a change request (due to finding an error), this version of the CM panel bitmaps is 100% what I suppose to be released along with Apollo 7 and any other mission :yes77: Work accomplished after years.

But there is another coding request I would like to make: I think that the three green lines and the three green lights (PROG, VERB, NOUN) on the DSKY display should not be on/visible in case the corresponding circuit breakers are pulled out on panel 5. Could somebody change this? I think it's not a big deal but I sadly can't do it due to lack of coding knowledge.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Puma on May 05, 2010, 11:18:23 PM
Great !..when are you going to post the new cvs link on the http://nassp.sourceforge.net/wiki/Installation so we can download it?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on May 06, 2010, 06:54:37 AM
Great !..when are you going to post the new cvs link on the http://nassp.sourceforge.net/wiki/Installation so we can download it?

Do you mean a new Modules Pack? That's something I leave up to Tschachim.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on May 06, 2010, 09:48:45 PM
But there is another coding request I would like to make: I think that the three green lines and the three green lights (PROG, VERB, NOUN) on the DSKY display should not be on/visible in case the corresponding circuit breakers are pulled out on panel 5. Could somebody change this? I think it's not a big deal but I sadly can't do it due to lack of coding knowledge.

The DSKY lights are on any time it's powered, and it's powered through the GaugePower object which just takes power from both main buses; it just needs to be modified to take power from the correct place, but I don't remember ever finding out where the real DSKY got its power from.

See saturn.cpp around line 1010.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Coussini on May 07, 2010, 09:25:19 AM
But there is another coding request I would like to make: I think that the three green lines and the three green lights (PROG, VERB, NOUN) on the DSKY display should not be on/visible in case the corresponding circuit breakers are pulled out on panel 5. Could somebody change this? I think it's not a big deal but I sadly can't do it due to lack of coding knowledge.

The DSKY lights are on any time it's powered, and it's powered through the GaugePower object which just takes power from both main buses; it just needs to be modified to take power from the correct place, but I don't remember ever finding out where the real DSKY got its power from.

See saturn.cpp around line 1010.


The Power section provides voltage levels necessary for the operation of the computer and is provided by two switching-regulator power supplies, a +4-volt and a +14-volt power supply, energised by the fuel cell power-plants in the electrical power subsystem.

The previous info is from this link:
http://history.nasa.gov/afj/compessay.htm

ALSO, search in the following link the keyword "Power supply"
http://www.spaceref.com/exploration/apollo/acgreplica/buildAGC5.pdf

I know that's for block I, but probably that's the same for the BLOCK II



Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on May 07, 2010, 11:17:31 AM
Thanks for the info. But I think that this is definitely a job for C++ gurus (I'm sadly not) :wink:


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on May 07, 2010, 08:27:54 PM
Here's more on the Block I:

Quote
The power supply consists of two parts. Input to the power supply is +28 vdc from the spacecraft main d-c bus. The two sections provide +13 vdc and +3 vdc. The +13-vdc output provides power to the DSKYs and, in conjunction with the +3-vdc power, to the logic circuits. The +3-vdc supply provides power to the timing section as well as to the logic circuits. During standby mode of operation, the +3-vdc section only is operated; thus, power consumption is reduced by approximately 100 watts.

http://www.apollosaturn.com/gnc.htm

So in that case at least the DSKY was powered via the AGC.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: movieman on May 07, 2010, 08:43:04 PM
BTW, there's some interesting stuff about DSKY reliability on NTRS:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19770082027_1977082027.pdf
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19770082026_1977082026.pdf

Apparently it used a staggering number of relays (presumably to turn the lights on and off) and could theoretically burn through the maximum cycle count for those relays in a few hours if you left it monitoring rapidly-changing values like time.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Gunner_CAF on May 07, 2010, 10:42:54 PM
The computers power supply powered the DSKY according to the block diagram in "Apollo experience report: Command and service module electrical power distribution subsystem"

The power supply received it's power from the +28 VDC Main DC Busses.

The loads on the DC power system were divided into three categories according to criticality of the power source.  Nonredundent essential loads were fed from both busses through isolation diodes, redundant essential loads were arranged so that loads were fed from different buses, and Non redundant nonessential loads were connected to the busses, as required, to equalize the loading on each bus. ( http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740011403_1974011403.pdf )

The computer power supply was a Nonredundent essential load fed from both busses through isolation diodes.  You can see this in the GNC Power Distribution diagram in the Apollo Training Guidance and Control pdf.


Gunner


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on August 16, 2010, 04:25:42 AM
In Block II, the DSKY and the AGC have independant power supply, the DSKYs are powered via the NUMERICS LTS rotational switches on panel 7 and panel 100, see attached screenshot. I implemented it that way, change is in CVS since a couple of weeks.

EDIT: Systems Handbook 8.4, pdf page 385

Cheers
Tschachim


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: BlueManGroup10 on February 08, 2011, 03:47:10 PM
I have had NASSP on Orbiter for roughly 7 months by now, and I have a small question;
On Apollo's 15+ they included Panel 230, and I cannot navigate to it.  Do you have any help?   :?

One small thing about posting too...
I would like to know how to post images, such as the Apollo userbar.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Tschachim on February 24, 2011, 10:32:51 AM
One small thing about posting too...
I would like to know how to post images, such as the Apollo userbar.

Use the IMG code as explained here: http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?action=help;page=post#bbcref
This works in the signature, too.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: drewhogue on April 13, 2012, 12:08:21 PM
Hey guys,

I haven't been on in a while.  I'm kinda getting lost in the forum posts here.  Is the A07/08 CSM finished?  If not what is left?  How's the LM coming along?  Thanks for your continued work on this awesome project.

Andrew


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on April 16, 2012, 02:50:41 AM
Hey guys,

I haven't been on in a while.  I'm kinda getting lost in the forum posts here.  Is the A07/08 CSM finished?  If not what is left?  How's the LM coming along?  Thanks for your continued work on this awesome project.

Andrew

I can't tell you much about the programming status. But as for the panel graphics stuff: the CM is finished. The LM is in work and finished soon.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Dogsbody on April 16, 2012, 06:29:28 AM
Maybe this is a daft question but if the CSM is finished as you say why does the system test on panel 101 and the mission timer in the LEB not work still?

Don't get me wrong I am still so happy at all the work that has been done so far and I am really glad to be able to fly the Apollo capsule. I also can't programme a single line of code...yet.But I just wonder if we shouldn't say the CSM is finished if there are still panels not working?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: eddievhfan1984 on April 16, 2012, 06:35:06 AM
Maybe this is a daft question but if the CSM is finished as you say why does the system test on panel 101 and the mission timer in the LEB not work still?

Don't get me wrong I am still so happy at all the work that has been done so far and I am really glad to be able to fly the Apollo capsule. I also can't programme a single line of code...yet.But I just wonder if we shouldn't say the CSM is finished if there are still panels not working?


He said "Graphics," as in the images for every panel are present and accounted for; as far as functionality, there's still a ways to go...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on April 17, 2012, 05:31:18 PM
Maybe this is a daft question but if the CSM is finished as you say why does the system test on panel 101 and the mission timer in the LEB not work still?

Don't get me wrong I am still so happy at all the work that has been done so far and I am really glad to be able to fly the Apollo capsule. I also can't programme a single line of code...yet.But I just wonder if we shouldn't say the CSM is finished if there are still panels not working?


He said "Graphics," as in the images for every panel are present and accounted for; as far as functionality, there's still a ways to go...

That's true. I can only speak of the graphics stuff. I'm not familiar with the latest code. But I guess, from what I know, that the CM is rather advanced. There are only minor things missing I believe. The LM still needs lots of coding though...

PS: my progress on the LM panels got a little slow due to Easter inbetween, and a costal contusion (don't ask :ROTFL3453:).


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Dogsbody on April 18, 2012, 04:51:45 AM
Ahh. Sorry, Should have realised you meant graphics wise. The work that has been done till now is phenomenal. I take it you mean the graphics in the 2d panels only though. I sincerely hope the ideal will be the 3d cockpit eventually.

 I know it will probably be years till we manage to implement the 3d cockpit with all working switches and if I had the knowledge I would work on that myself. Till then I will continue to enjyo the 2d panels and dream.... :D


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: rcflyinghokie on January 19, 2013, 07:11:03 PM
I know this has probably been mentioned in the past, but is there a reason the BMAG TEMP lights are still missing from the CW panel?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Vinny003 on March 07, 2013, 12:57:36 PM
Hi, guys!

Do you know how many functioning switches that does anything in the CSM? I know there are not very many functioning switches in the LM. Thanks!

              Cheers,
           Vincent


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: rcflyinghokie on March 12, 2013, 12:21:15 PM
Are you asking which CSM switches work and which do not?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Vinny003 on October 15, 2013, 10:39:17 PM
Hi, rcflyinghokie!

Sorry, I didn't respond to you sooner. please forgive me. thanks! Yes, that is what I'm asking about. I would like to know how many switches in the NASSP CSM that work & how many which do not? Thanks!

             Cheers,
         Vincent


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: NoName on October 20, 2013, 07:49:18 AM
Hi, rcflyinghokie!

Sorry, I didn't respond to you sooner. please forgive me. thanks! Yes, that is what I'm asking about. I would like to know how many switches in the NASSP CSM that work & how many which do not? Thanks!

             Cheers,
         Vincent

I didn't count all the working switches, but most switches do have a function.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: Vinny003 on November 04, 2013, 12:13:53 PM
Hi, Moonwalker!

 It sounds like a lot of the CSM switches are functional! Thanks!

            Cheers,
          Vincent


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: rcflyinghokie on November 13, 2013, 12:06:51 PM
I havent looked in a while but I can compile a list of what doesnt work or what doesnt have a function yet if you like in the CSM.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: indy91 on May 03, 2016, 07:04:09 AM
I have done some work on the CSM High Gain Antenna. It is mostly the part of the HGA where I can be most helpful, the vector math to calculate the relative angle between the pointing vector of the HGA and Earth. It really is the most basic implementation right now:

-Power and circuit breakers are hopefully correctly connected. I have traced down where the power comes from and I found out that the flight bus wasn't connected to its circuit breakers before. That should now be the case, if I haven't missunderstood that part of the code completely.
-The antenna only works with the power switch on and in manual mode. I have arbitrarily chosen 5/s as the rate limit for the pitch and yaw servos.
-The beamwidth switch doesn't do anything yet. However, I have used the beamwidth of the wide mode (40) as the current setting, just for testing. A basic cosine function is used to approximate the signal strength. Again, not really based on much, I don't know much about electrical engineering.
-There is no animation of the antenna right now. I am sure other people can do that part better than me.

With all these disclaimers, you can use V64 now to get the correct HGA pitch and yaw angles from the AGC and then get signal strength with those settings. It's a first step.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: kneecaps on May 04, 2016, 03:12:47 AM
I have done some work on the CSM High Gain Antenna. It is mostly the part of the HGA where I can be most helpful, the vector math to calculate the relative angle between the pointing vector of the HGA and Earth. It really is the most basic implementation right now:

-Power and circuit breakers are hopefully correctly connected. I have traced down where the power comes from and I found out that the flight bus wasn't connected to its circuit breakers before. That should now be the case, if I haven't missunderstood that part of the code completely.
-The antenna only works with the power switch on and in manual mode. I have arbitrarily chosen 5/s as the rate limit for the pitch and yaw servos.
-The beamwidth switch doesn't do anything yet. However, I have used the beamwidth of the wide mode (40) as the current setting, just for testing. A basic cosine function is used to approximate the signal strength. Again, not really based on much, I don't know much about electrical engineering.
-There is no animation of the antenna right now. I am sure other people can do that part better than me.

With all these disclaimers, you can use V64 now to get the correct HGA pitch and yaw angles from the AGC and then get signal strength with those settings. It's a first step.

Awesome!

I shall give this a try and do some testing. I've not had an opportunity to get into orbit with a fully configured CSM on the latest builds, would you be able to share a scenario file?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: indy91 on May 04, 2016, 07:31:20 AM
Here an Apollo 8 scenario shortly after LOI-2. I have already added that, with the moon in the way, the antenna receives no signal, so don't wonder if you don't immediately get signal strength in this scenario. Pretty nice seeing the Earth rise over the horizon and suddenly the signal strength is there.  :ThumbsUp432:

Also, does someone have a story about the High Gain Antenna Scan Limit warning light? As far as I can tell, it only appears in the CSM-104 Systems Handbook on the CWS, not in the AOH. I don't have pictures of all CSM panels, but at least Apollo 11 doesn't have the warning light. However, it still appears on the diagram for viable HGA pitch and yaw angle on the Apollo 15 CSM Systems Checklist as "scan limit warning light function". So, there is a scan limit warning light function but no scan limit warning? I don't quite understand that...


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: eddievhfan1984 on May 04, 2016, 08:20:19 AM
Isn't the annunciator on the CW indicators in our current panel?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: indy91 on May 04, 2016, 08:41:19 AM
Yes, it is on our panel. I guess our current panel is mostly based on that Systems Handbook. The question how to implement the warning light is easily answered, the HGA electronics had some kind of function that then send the signal to the CWS, if the HGA pitch and yaw are in the undesired zone. Not very difficult to code. I just want to find out which missions actually had the warning light. But I guess because the light already is on our panel, it maybe should be implemented in any case?!


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: eddievhfan1984 on May 04, 2016, 09:36:22 AM
I don't think it's currently implemented, but it definitely shouldn't be too hard to add. I presume the scan limit is to prevent the antenna from slamming into the stops during signal tracking, right?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: indy91 on May 04, 2016, 10:29:31 AM
I don't think it's currently implemented, but it definitely shouldn't be too hard to add.

Oh, it most certainly isn't implemented yet. Only a few months ago dseagrav created the initial skeleton implementation, so just the HGA class declaration and a few variables. No functionality was implemented until yesterday.

Quote
I presume the scan limit is to prevent the antenna from slamming into the stops during signal tracking, right?

Yes and the scan limit itself is also based on a function known to the HGA electronics. That is when the HGA should stop tracking in in the automatic modes. The A15 System Checklist also has the actual gimbal limits, which is a few degrees after the scan limit. The scan limit warning line is then again about 15 before the scan limit.

You also have to realize that the HGA doesn't directly move around the pitch and yaw axis. Those pitch and yaw are in the spacecraft coordinate system, while the HGA is rotated 52.25 around the X-axis. The designation of the three gimbal axis of the HGA are : A-, B- and C-Axis. The B-Axis is not used in manual mode. The manual pitch and yaw are then rotated into the required A- and C-Axis. A good explanation is in the CSM-104 Systems Handbook (if anyone doesn't have it: http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/ApolloProjectOnline/Documents/CSM%20104%20Systems%20Handbook%2019690124.pdf), page 165. Those three gimbal axis are not yet implemented in any way, but they will have to be for auto and reacquire modes and then animation of the HGA, I guess.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: rcflyinghokie on June 18, 2016, 07:42:25 AM
Random question regarding the panel.  Is there a particular reason BMAG TEMP 1&2 C/W indicators were not added?  As far as my research shows, all of the Block 2 spacecraft had these on the panel.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: eddievhfan1984 on June 18, 2016, 01:43:47 PM
Mostly has to do with how (as I understand it) the CSM panel was built quite a while back, and it's kind of a hybrid of Block I and Block II controls (like how the star tracker in our optics panel wasn't found in Block II, or the separate zeroing switch).


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: indy91 on June 18, 2016, 01:57:42 PM
Mostly has to do with how (as I understand it) the CSM panel was built quite a while back, and it's kind of a hybrid of Block I and Block II controls (like how the star tracker in our optics panel wasn't found in Block II, or the separate zeroing switch).

Yeah, or the source that was used for the C/W panel by whoever created it was simply a little bit outdated (i.e. from 1967 or 1968), just as with the HGA Scan Limit Warning light, which wasn't there anymore for the manned mission but appeared in an earlier CSM Systems Handbook. So if this was to be changed, then the HGA warning light should be removed (even then the function used to calculated it is used in the HGA electronics for something in the automatic mode) and the BMAG TEMP lights should be added. BMAG temperatures aren't simulated yet, but the lights should be there.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: rcflyinghokie on June 18, 2016, 10:01:14 PM
Mostly has to do with how (as I understand it) the CSM panel was built quite a while back, and it's kind of a hybrid of Block I and Block II controls (like how the star tracker in our optics panel wasn't found in Block II, or the separate zeroing switch).

That was actually what I was going to ask about next, but alas you beat me to it :)

Yeah, or the source that was used for the C/W panel by whoever created it was simply a little bit outdated (i.e. from 1967 or 1968), just as with the HGA Scan Limit Warning light, which wasn't there anymore for the manned mission but appeared in an earlier CSM Systems Handbook. So if this was to be changed, then the HGA warning light should be removed (even then the function used to calculated it is used in the HGA electronics for something in the automatic mode) and the BMAG TEMP lights should be added. BMAG temperatures aren't simulated yet, but the lights should be there.

My guess is on the sourcing.  Would be nice to have this cleaned up, I do not have much experience with graphics, I am just an engineer and technical nut for anything aerospace, but I imagine changing those wouldn't be too difficult?


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: indy91 on June 19, 2016, 04:33:04 AM
My guess is on the sourcing.  Would be nice to have this cleaned up, I do not have much experience with graphics, I am just an engineer and technical nut for anything aerospace, but I imagine changing those wouldn't be too difficult?

The coding is easy; the BMAGs already have a temperature variable, which just has to be set to 170F. The CWS then just has to check for the temperature range (168 to 172), which will be always true without temperature simulation. All that has to be changed then is the bitmap for the CSM CWS (cw_lights.bmp). But I don't think there are currently any of the developers around, who worked on textures and stuff. And I certainly have no idea how to do it. So if anyone wants to volunteer to change the bitmap (remove HGA scan limit warning and add the two BMAG Temp lights), that would be great.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: rcflyinghokie on June 19, 2016, 06:19:05 PM
I wonder if there is anyone around who would be able to fill those shoes.  I'd love to see this project push even more forward with historical accuracy.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: rcflyinghokie on May 27, 2017, 08:15:46 AM
I found another switch that needs to have a momentary setting, the docking ext/rel switch should be momentary up.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: indy91 on May 27, 2017, 09:03:37 AM
I found another switch that needs to have a momentary setting, the docking ext/rel switch should be momentary up.

Will fix.


Title: Re: CSM Panel Status Report
Post by: rcflyinghokie on May 27, 2017, 08:55:07 PM
I found another switch that needs to have a momentary setting, the docking ext/rel switch should be momentary up.

Will fix.

I don't know if @Thymo fixed this in his build or not, but the CSM RDV XPDR test/operate switch also needs to be a momentary up.