Meadville Space Center
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 30, 2020, 07:56:28 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Gemini 060615 released!
25068 Posts in 2094 Topics by 2266 Members
Latest Member: twa517
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  Meadville Space Center
|-+  Project Apollo - NASSP
| |-+  Project Apollo - NASSP Development (Moderators: movieman, Tschachim, Swatch, lassombra)
| | |-+  Apollo 7 (vAGC) Flightplan and Procedures
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] Print
Author Topic: Apollo 7 (vAGC) Flightplan and Procedures  (Read 28069 times)
jc121081
Guest
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2007, 04:58:45 PM »

hi Justin!
What do you call as SCS maneuvers?
Could you elaborate?

Hi Christophe!

To answer your question, I used the term "SCS maneuvers" because I could think of no better terminology for the procedures I had developed involving them. Basically, these procedures are the MCC's, LOI, and TEI done without the vAGC (Using IMFD autoburn). The only pain about them is of course (as in any vAGC mission) after IMFD autoburn orients the SC that you must manually use the "DIRECT ON" SPS thrust and then cut it off manually after monitoring the burn time (thus the "SCS" definition). Somewhat realistically, after each of the SPS burns, you could null the residual velocities (displayed in IMFD) by use of translational thrust, just as the astronauts themselves did for some maneuvers (albeit without using IMFD).

I'm debating if it would be a good idea to include a tab in the new flightplan for the "SCS" style maneuvers and the G&N (vAGC assisted) ones. What do you all think?
Logged
Christophe
Project Team Member
Hero Member
****
Posts: 1072


View Profile Email
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2007, 05:52:49 PM »

I think it's a good idea untill the vAGC would not be able to do these burns.
thanks for the explanations.
Logged
Tschachim
Project Apollo - NASSP
Administrator
Hero Member
****
Posts: 3700


nassp.sf.net


View Profile WWW
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2007, 07:43:10 PM »

... The only pain about them is of course (as in any vAGC mission) after IMFD autoburn orients the SC...

Well, that's not really a SCS maneuver, that's cheating. Wink

However using the SCS would be a good compromise with respect to realism, but then you'd need to orient the CSM manually using a joystick (sorry, no wiki article about that yet).

... that you must manually use the "DIRECT ON" SPS thrust and then cut it off manually after monitoring the burn time...

Perhaps it's worth to try the SCS ΔV mode of the SPS: http://nassp.sourceforge.net/wiki/SPS#SCS_.CE.94V_mode,
then you have automatic engine cutoff at least.

Cheers
Tschachim
Logged

jc121081
Guest
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2007, 08:17:12 PM »

However using the SCS would be a good compromise with respect to realism, but then you'd need to orient the CSM manually using a joystick (sorry, no wiki article about that yet).
Heh heh, yes, I suppose that is cheating. For the sake of realism, I suppose I could whip something up for how to orient the CSM manually using the BV screen and put that into the procedures, at least.

Perhaps it's worth to try the SCS ΔV mode of the SPS: http://nassp.sourceforge.net/wiki/SPS#SCS_.CE.94V_mode,
then you have automatic engine cutoff at least.
Good point, that'll be a great thing to include. Should be easy to do, since the total dV sum required for the burns is already displayed in IMFD. All that would be needed is a simple conversion between m/sec and ft/sec. I'll get to work on adding that as well.

Regards,
jc121081
« Last Edit: December 28, 2007, 08:22:01 PM by jc121081 » Logged
kneecaps
Project Team Member
Full Member
****
Posts: 217


36711000 kneecaps@shockpulse.co.uk
View Profile
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2008, 05:22:46 PM »

Just some possible errata for the Apollo 7 flight plan spreadsheet.

On the launch procedures the following is listed:
375   SUIT CIRCUIT RETURN VALVE - OPEN (PULL)

This control is much nearer 326 or 382.

Also prehaps an 'EXPECT MA and O2 FLOW HI' should be added?


Also, these are not errors as such, I take it the aim of the procedures it to provide the minimum needed for the sim? I notice that a lot of the prelaunch steps are cut down, no C/W and GLYCOL system checks etc. Is this by design or simply the extra stuff has not been added yet?

Peter
Logged

"Okay. As soon as we find the Earth, we will do it."
- Frank Borman, Apollo 8

Current Work: ?? What next??

Future Work:
I know the AGC pretty well so anything need doing there?

On Hold/Completed:
SPS TVC in P40 issues.
P11 FDAI Error Needles (98%) complete. Comitted. Working A7 scenario.
P06 AGC Standby. Concluded. It's done by the AGC PSU.
Got us a complete AOH Volume II
jc121081
Project Team Member
Full Member
****
Posts: 84


FAO


View Profile Email
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2008, 06:59:47 PM »

I know this is a very late response, but I figured it is a good question that deserves one.

When I had first thought of the idea of making one large spreasheet comprising all of the varying procedures and events of a particular mission over a year ago, I had difficulty deciding if weather adding redundant switch setting checks (Ie. removing the steps for switch settings that were already set), or the full procedure would be feasable. In an understanding that, as a simulation that relies heavily upon realism, it would be awfully difficult to simulate two other people sitting beside you to assist you in performing checklist items, sometimes under time pressure. Thus, I had decided against redundant switch settings being included. I am, however, open to criticism on that, and would like to see how well these have worked for everyone over the past year before I continue my work with them.

Thanks,
jc121081
Logged



Current Work:
Overhaul of Ap8 vAGC FP, Wiki FP's

Future Work:
Ap14 Q FP, Ap15 Q FP, Ap16 Q FP, Ap17 Q FP
Tschachim
Project Apollo - NASSP
Administrator
Hero Member
****
Posts: 3700


nassp.sf.net


View Profile WWW
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2008, 02:09:54 PM »

My Two Cents here:

I'd add the "redundant switch settings" for 2 reasons: They were in the original checklists and we want to be as realistic as possible, secondly sometimes people throw switches inadvertently at a time it doesn't matter but later on they run into trouble because of the wrong setting.

By the way: You might want to take a look at ChecklistMFD: http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=1459.0 and the "word checklists" here: "Doc\Project Apollo - NASSP\Check List"

It isn't complete yet, but sooner or later we'll have more checklists the user can select manually and then execute manually or automatically. So on the long run we should discuss if the flightplan shall contain the actual checklists or mainly referring to them, i.e. the flightpan says "+118:00:00 FUEL CELL O2 PURGE" and then the user selects the "Fuel Cell O2 purge" checklist in the ChecklistMFD and executes it.

Cheers
Tschachim
Logged

jc121081
Project Team Member
Full Member
****
Posts: 84


FAO


View Profile Email
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2008, 06:38:57 PM »

I agree with that. One thing I had failed to overlook before is that if there were a procedure that was under some degree of time constrain one could simply slow the simulation rate. I'll go ahead and get to work on adding the full procedures.

As far as Checklist MFD...

I suppose I could familiarize myself with that and add to it from what I had documented if needed. I noticed the spreadsheet containing its corresponding values and doesn't seem that it should be that difficult to convert to with what I had. I had personally found using the flightplan files more useful in the respect that, as in any other Excel worksheet, it can perform mathematical computations within its cells, which are already used in the flightplans for a few steps. Also, if using the flightplan files it is possbile to store variables such as notes or system checks, which could be easily referred to later for post-mission analysis. I'll see what I can do with this though, but it would likely take some time.
Logged



Current Work:
Overhaul of Ap8 vAGC FP, Wiki FP's

Future Work:
Ap14 Q FP, Ap15 Q FP, Ap16 Q FP, Ap17 Q FP
Tschachim
Project Apollo - NASSP
Administrator
Hero Member
****
Posts: 3700


nassp.sf.net


View Profile WWW
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2008, 07:24:26 PM »

Take your time, first and foremost I'm happy you're back!   Happy

Some additional remarks about the checklists and flightplans as I don't have a comprehensive concept about all that ready: At first I would like to avoid redundancy, i.e. to have the same stuff in several places we all need to maintain. Because of this I would like to remove the checklists in the wiki, perhaps replacing them with something tutorial-like. Then there are Pattersoncr's great checklists in MS Word, they are generic (i.e. not mission specific) and as long as Pattersoncr (or the community) is able to maintain them, they are a great resource, especially if you want to have printed checklists.

The "master checklists" should be the excel files used by ChecklistMFD. They're used in 3 ways:

- Provide in-game checklists for the user with switch highlighting etc.
- Provide the checklists in a readable format outside the game by using Excel, similar to the flightplans
- They are used to control the spacecraft automatically in Quickstart Mode by executing checklists at certain events automatically

Because of the last point they need to be mission-specific, but this doesn't matter that much at the moment as we're working towards a "Apollo 7 only" release. The currently used file is "Doc\Project Apollo - NASSP\Check List\Mission checklist\CSM Default Checklist.xls", but:

- It contains the bare minimum only to get the crew in orbit alive 
- It's not the final file format (as discussed in the ChecklistMFD thread)
- The DSKY isn't supported yet (as discussed in the ChecklistMFD thread)

Pattersoncr was already working on complete checklists for ChecklistMFD (as far as I remember he posted a preliminary version in the ChecklistMFD thread) so you might want to contact him for coordination.

Of course all this doesn't affect the need of flightplans, there will be many checklists for the separate tasks, and as in reality we need a master mission timeline, the flightplan with the informations when the checklists (and other stuff) needs to be done with which parameters (in case it's not possible to hardcode them in the checklists like burn data). I assume we want to do a kind of "modular system", where the flight plan references to the checklists without containing them directly to avoid the forementioned redundancy, perhaps by just mention them by name.

But this is all my Two Cents, at first we need to finish ChecklistMFD. If Lassombra won't "reappear" I'll take a look at that when I finished the hatch (unless someone beats me, of course Wink), and then we can work on the actual checklist files finally and decide how to integrate them with the flightplan.

Cheers
Tschachim
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 07:27:18 PM by Tschachim » Logged

jc121081
Project Team Member
Full Member
****
Posts: 84


FAO


View Profile Email
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2008, 06:38:12 PM »

Hmmm. Seems that would be the right way to go then I guess. I'll cease any ambition of updating the mission specific flightplans, at least what's in CVS. As far as working on checklist MFD, I'll leave that to Pattersoncr as I wouldn't want to intrude upon his work. Besides, I don't think any work that I could include in it from my own would be in the same format than what is already projected in the .xls file used by checklist MFD. I will still continue to work on the mission specific flightplan files, but rather for my own use now instead. Thanks for the response.
Logged



Current Work:
Overhaul of Ap8 vAGC FP, Wiki FP's

Future Work:
Ap14 Q FP, Ap15 Q FP, Ap16 Q FP, Ap17 Q FP
eddievhfan1984
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 737



View Profile
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2010, 04:59:20 AM »

I haven't tried to put the new EMEM data in the Apollo 8 scenario yet. I don't really understand what the EMEMS are. I'll search the forum and try to find out  Wink

In case you haven't found it yet...  Thumbs Up  Very Happy LOL

EMEM is erasable memory. The AGC has a small block of memory set aside for the astronauts or ground control to edit. That's what stores the state vectors for the CSM and LM/SIVB, burn time and velocities, etc...

If you have the Word-based checklists, just follow those to input the new data for lunar state vectors. Don't try to figure out what the addresses are, though. It's all octal.  ROTFL

Hope that helped.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!