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Author Topic: Steps before Apollo 7  (Read 40869 times)
lassombra
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« on: December 18, 2007, 06:14:14 PM »

    This is, at the moment at least, just a kind of review, where are we with regards to being ready for an Apollo 7 release.  I'm not talking about everything else we want to do, or a beta release.  I'm talking, pure and simple, apollo 7.  AGC/Quickstart/Simple modes, small scenario set, complete release in one zip for people to download the contents of Project Apollo and fly a Saturn 1B into LEO.

    I know there are some things people want to implement, and think NEED to be implemented.

    So heres the idea:  We start a list of things that NEED to be implemented and then things we WANT implemented.

NEED:
  • finish the panels in the CM.
  • EOCA completed.
  • finish refining the launch/early post insertion data for the Saturn rocket
  • 4 or 5 complete missions under our belts from people of different skill levels.
  • plan of attack for how to best test parts of the mission.
  • decide on what our scenarios will entail.  (one for each step of the mission, i.e. AMSO?  or fewer than that?)
  • seperate or disable the parts of NASSP which won't be ready for Apollo 7 release
  • remove the failure code and rewrite it.
  • MFD-integrated checklist with flashing switch finders.
  • comprehensive checklist that allows operation of Apollo 7 from launch to splashdown according to historic procedures and situations.

WANT:

The point here I think is to differentiate between the NEEDS and the WANTS so that we know when we can go ahead and release.  I'm not saying give up on the WANTS until the NEEDS are done, but once the NEEDS are done we probably can release with whatever WANTS are done at that point.[/list]
« Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 05:46:53 AM by lassombra » Logged

My current Project Apollo work:

Quickstart to the Moon initiative (Quickstart_to_the_Moon): Done through earth orbit.  Working on new method of calculating TLI.

Checklist Controller: 
  • MFD Interface 99%(Minor cleanup and future features remain)
  • Panel Interface 99%
  • Excel interface and logic 99%
  • LEM Event code.0%
  • DSKY Interface code. Framework complete, creating "buttons"
  Approximately 80% done. (Checklist Controller
movieman
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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2007, 11:51:38 PM »

Sounds good. I think we do need someone to make a list of what we have to do and then people can work through the list to clear it.
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Swatch
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2007, 01:38:28 AM »

Ok, me next... Very Happy

I think we NEED the EMS working (which I'm getting close, but this is actually part of your "finish the panels in the CM").
We NEED at least 4 or 5 complete missions under our belts from people of different skill levels. (I apply for the new-flyer level... Wink)
We NEED a plan of attack for how to best test parts of the mission.
We NEED to decide on what our scenarios will entail.  (one for each step of the mission, i.e. AMSO?  or fewer than that?)
We NEED to seperate or disable the parts of NASSP which won't be ready for Apollo 7 release (LEM, lunar stuff, MCC) and keep those in the BETA only.  This is so we don't get people complaining about how something doesn't work right or crashing.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think we NEED to remove the failure code and rewrite it if we WANT this in this release.

I WANT the MFD-integrated checklist with flashing switch finders.  (This is number one on my want list and I'm very tempted to suggest NEED, but I'll refrain for now)
I WANT the new exhast modifications (but it likely won't happen)
I WANT the other docking method (next on my agenda  Thumbs Up)

On the subject of the MFD-checklist, I think we need a good thread of discussion involving how to format the checklists (text file, Excel spreadsheet, etc) and cement that in stone before work begins on it.  This is going to be vital to the less experienced.  While I know my way around the capsule inside and out, I don't know my way around the systems and AGC, which is where this would be great.
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My Project Apollo Work:
CM Visual
 -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
lassombra
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2007, 03:46:50 AM »

regarding the checklist, I've started this thread: http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=1459.0 containing my ideas and asking for discussion.  I've put Swatch's items into the list at the top.  Maybe we can sticky this thread and use it as a checklist to release?  Oh, and btw, thank  jc121081 for giving me this idea.

P.S. Swatch, I upgraded your checklist to a need as we are in a condition, regarding the types of users we are targeting where we probably do need it.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2007, 03:52:47 AM by lassombra » Logged

My current Project Apollo work:

Quickstart to the Moon initiative (Quickstart_to_the_Moon): Done through earth orbit.  Working on new method of calculating TLI.

Checklist Controller: 
  • MFD Interface 99%(Minor cleanup and future features remain)
  • Panel Interface 99%
  • Excel interface and logic 99%
  • LEM Event code.0%
  • DSKY Interface code. Framework complete, creating "buttons"
  Approximately 80% done. (Checklist Controller
Tschachim
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2007, 08:20:11 AM »

Great thread, I made it sticky.  Thumbs Up

Basically I second everything said so far, I'm going to elaborate a little bit more later, for now just a small comment about:

NEED:
  • finish the panels in the CM.

This is what I'm working on mainly. I resumed the work on the RCS, which is the biggest missing system for my part, after that's I'm going to enhance the EPS and ECS a little bit to support a couple of the switches/displays/cb's on the new panels. I don't think we really need every switch and display working, so we need to detail that point a little bit more later, but for now I have enough work with the forementioned systems. Happy

...and...

WANT:
  • more complete documentation on the various systems.
  • comprehensive checklist that allows operation of Apollo 7 from launch to splashdown according to historic procedures and situations.

I tend to see these points as a NEED, because without proper documentation almost everyone will fail to use the CSM properly. At least for me a big part of the "Apollo fascination" is based on that the CSM can be used like the real one (and not only like a typical Orbiter spacecraft), but in order to "impart" that, documentation and checklists are necessary, otherwise I fear it will lead to a lot of frustration of the users (I hope I explained that not too weird...).

By the way: Does anyone has docu/links about the "VAB able to assemble a Saturn 1B" part? I think it was erected on the pad, I'm not even sure it was in the VAB before, but basically I just don't know...

Cheers
Tschachim
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Swatch
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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2007, 11:00:17 AM »


By the way: Does anyone has docu/links about the "VAB able to assemble a Saturn 1B" part? I think it was erected on the pad, I'm not even sure it was in the VAB before, but basically I just don't know...


Yea, I was going to say something about this.... it was erected on the pad using the MSS.
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My Project Apollo Work:
CM Visual
 -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
Christophe
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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2007, 11:54:23 AM »

Hi everybody!
Seems we run into the final approach for the first NASSP 7 release . That sounds good  Happy

Thanks Lassombra for placing EOCA into the "need" list, and thus to put me under pressure  Very Happy
In a more general way I would say that the "need list" requires something to compute the whole Apollo 7 maneuvers.
The tests jc121081 and I made shows that EOCA is currently able to perform the computation for basic maneuvers with good accuracy.
By "basic maneuvers" I mean the SPS burn nbr 3, 4, 5, and 6 of the Apollo 7 flight plan.

That left:
- The RCS phasing burn and the 2 first SPS burns that are part of the coelliptic RDV phasing. I'm currently working on that and hope to get results before the year is out.
- the RDV itself, TPI and midcourse correction: irnenginer told that it performed that burns succesfully like they have to be done: with vAGC RDV programs.
While in standard mode, the user can simply use IMFD in intercept mode.
- The 7th SPS burn. it's a ground phasing burn to prepare for reentry one day later;
that's something I plan to do in EOCA after the RDV phasing stuff is complete, because it's more difficult to perform ground track adjustment simply because the orbit and the earth don't rotate into the same plane.
- The 8th burn is the deorbit burn; 15 minutes before reentry.
I plan too to include deorbit burns into EOCA but I don't know when.
Last year I made some test using IMFD base Appraoch program for deorbit burn. That worked well exept for the computation of the entry interface refsmmat which is a bit tricky to compute. However it's feasable, and I think it could be the nominal way for the Apollo7 release.

would like to mention that an excel spredsheet is not very practical to use in orbiter. To be honnest I started that thinking that it could be one day a part of the virtual MCC; don't know the current status of virtual MCC today.

however, since the final release will include several scenarios, one for each flight steps, I suggest that the scenario could include in its own description chapter, the next maneuver elements precomputed with the help of EOCA.

For finishing, my biggest goal is to write a full doc on how to use EOCA, with some explanations on basic space mechanics.
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lassombra
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2007, 05:00:07 PM »

Ok, I moved the checklist to need.

I think the actual systems documentation is more of a want when we're talking about having a standard checklist anyways.  While the astronauts I'm sure knew every bulb on their spacecraft just as I know every switch and bulb on the piper warrior I fly, that doesn't mean that they were thinking in terms of systems.  They did what the guys on the ground told them to.  Strictly speaking, the guys on the ground had more time to think about it since there were more of them.  Having a checklist that provides an accurate flight profile is I think more important then than being able to understand every single system.

That said, I think that it is still important, and if we get some people who have the time and understanding to do so, it'd be great if they could document it.

As to the VAB idea, i've scrapped it.  I didn't realize when I said it the obvious problem.  The pad that the Saturn 1B is launched from doesn't move so obviously there is something wrong with the idea of building it in the VAB
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My current Project Apollo work:

Quickstart to the Moon initiative (Quickstart_to_the_Moon): Done through earth orbit.  Working on new method of calculating TLI.

Checklist Controller: 
  • MFD Interface 99%(Minor cleanup and future features remain)
  • Panel Interface 99%
  • Excel interface and logic 99%
  • LEM Event code.0%
  • DSKY Interface code. Framework complete, creating "buttons"
  Approximately 80% done. (Checklist Controller
lassombra
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« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2007, 04:21:51 PM »

Christophe, I think these are valid points, but should be discussed in the Checklist MFD thread.  There we have a checklist idea set, and we have been looking at the idea of how to designate time related checklists.
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My current Project Apollo work:

Quickstart to the Moon initiative (Quickstart_to_the_Moon): Done through earth orbit.  Working on new method of calculating TLI.

Checklist Controller: 
  • MFD Interface 99%(Minor cleanup and future features remain)
  • Panel Interface 99%
  • Excel interface and logic 99%
  • LEM Event code.0%
  • DSKY Interface code. Framework complete, creating "buttons"
  Approximately 80% done. (Checklist Controller
Christophe
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« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2007, 04:33:13 PM »

Christophe, I think these are valid points, but should be discussed in the Checklist MFD thread.  There we have a checklist idea set, and we have been looking at the idea of how to designate time related checklists.

ooops! so sorry...
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Graham2001
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2008, 07:08:52 AM »

WANT

  • White Painted SMs, these appeared on four flights, AS-201/202, Apollo 6 & 'Ironman One'.
  • Boilerplate CSMs, these will be needed for the Little Joe II & the Early Saturn (Saturn I) test flights.

EditAdded a picture showing all flights, clockwise from the left, AS-201, AS-202, Apollo 6, 'Ironman One'. Practice of painting SMs white seems to originate with the Saturn I (Block I & II) missions.


* WhiteSM2.png (295.99 KB, 392x344 - viewed 575 times.)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2008, 10:31:01 AM by Graham2001 » Logged
lassombra
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« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2008, 08:25:56 AM »

Added to the list.
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My current Project Apollo work:

Quickstart to the Moon initiative (Quickstart_to_the_Moon): Done through earth orbit.  Working on new method of calculating TLI.

Checklist Controller: 
  • MFD Interface 99%(Minor cleanup and future features remain)
  • Panel Interface 99%
  • Excel interface and logic 99%
  • LEM Event code.0%
  • DSKY Interface code. Framework complete, creating "buttons"
  Approximately 80% done. (Checklist Controller
Graham2001
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2008, 04:22:37 AM »

Want:



* MissionControlProgrammer1.png (58.49 KB, 818x566 - viewed 678 times.)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 04:26:21 AM by Graham2001 » Logged
lassombra
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2008, 05:45:56 AM »

added to the list.
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My current Project Apollo work:

Quickstart to the Moon initiative (Quickstart_to_the_Moon): Done through earth orbit.  Working on new method of calculating TLI.

Checklist Controller: 
  • MFD Interface 99%(Minor cleanup and future features remain)
  • Panel Interface 99%
  • Excel interface and logic 99%
  • LEM Event code.0%
  • DSKY Interface code. Framework complete, creating "buttons"
  Approximately 80% done. (Checklist Controller
movieman
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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2008, 11:26:29 AM »

I think one important issue is to be logging bugs on the sourceforge page so they can be tracked and fixed.
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