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Project Apollo - NASSP 6.4.3 released!
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| | | |-+  Saturn LVDC and TVC issues
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Author Topic: Saturn LVDC and TVC issues  (Read 5947 times)
movieman
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« on: April 22, 2008, 01:36:42 PM »

Would probably also be good to add some kind of more realistic drive rates to the Saturn nozzles so they don't swing around so fast (or so far) during the launch.
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kneecaps
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« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2008, 01:48:23 PM »

Would probably also be good to add some kind of more realistic drive rates to the Saturn nozzles so they don't swing around so fast (or so far) during the launch.


Excuse my lack of current knowledge on the project, how are the Saturn nozzles currently driven? Is it a canned routine or is approximation of the LVDC doing the driving?
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"Okay. As soon as we find the Earth, we will do it."
- Frank Borman, Apollo 8

Current Work: ?? What next??

Future Work:
I know the AGC pretty well so anything need doing there?

On Hold/Completed:
SPS TVC in P40 issues.
P11 FDAI Error Needles (98%) complete. Comitted. Working A7 scenario.
P06 AGC Standby. Concluded. It's done by the AGC PSU.
Got us a complete AOH Volume II
lassombra
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« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2008, 02:29:08 PM »

Right now, they just pass the desired value to Orbiter.

What we need to do is damp those values.
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My current Project Apollo work:

Quickstart to the Moon initiative (Quickstart_to_the_Moon): Done through earth orbit.  Working on new method of calculating TLI.

Checklist Controller: 
  • MFD Interface 99%(Minor cleanup and future features remain)
  • Panel Interface 99%
  • Excel interface and logic 99%
  • LEM Event code.0%
  • DSKY Interface code. Framework complete, creating "buttons"
  Approximately 80% done. (Checklist Controller
kneecaps
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« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2008, 04:06:14 PM »

Right now, they just pass the desired value to Orbiter.

What we need to do is damp those values.

Right, so what generates the values in the first place? This is the key, because if the response to the gimbal commands is expected/assumed to be instant it could destroy the launch guidance. The question is it currently open or closed loop. If it's closed loop then that's a better start, if it's flying totally open loop then more will have to be done. I talking about the Saturn here (as the AGC  TVC DAP is clearly closed loop!)

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"Okay. As soon as we find the Earth, we will do it."
- Frank Borman, Apollo 8

Current Work: ?? What next??

Future Work:
I know the AGC pretty well so anything need doing there?

On Hold/Completed:
SPS TVC in P40 issues.
P11 FDAI Error Needles (98%) complete. Comitted. Working A7 scenario.
P06 AGC Standby. Concluded. It's done by the AGC PSU.
Got us a complete AOH Volume II
dseagrav
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« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2008, 04:32:10 PM »

Saturn gimbal commands are generated by an analog computer attached to the LVDA called the FCC.
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movieman
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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2008, 06:07:47 PM »

Saturn gimbal commands are generated by an analog computer attached to the LVDA called the FCC.

Is that actually implemented yet?
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dseagrav
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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2008, 06:26:01 PM »

Is that actually implemented yet?

I had most of an implementation in the LVDC++ (I don't think it did travel rate limiting) but I don't think the normal autopilot does it.
VS seems to be crashing my computer for some reason so I can't open it and check.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 01:00:20 PM by dseagrav » Logged
Tschachim
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2008, 04:30:41 AM »

I split and put the Saturn stuff in a new topic, I hope this is fine for everybody.

Cheers
Tschachim
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Swatch
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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2008, 02:01:09 PM »

does anyone have the gimbleing rates?
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My Project Apollo Work:
CM Visual
 -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
kneecaps
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2008, 04:56:38 PM »

does anyone have the gimbleing rates?

I've read 5 degrees per second on the S-I. I'll try and locate the other stages. Remember the centre engine isn't gimballed!!

EDIT: Come across 9.6 degrees per second for S-II..again centre engine not gimballed.

Can't find anything at the moment on the S-IVb

« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 05:06:06 PM by kneecaps » Logged

"Okay. As soon as we find the Earth, we will do it."
- Frank Borman, Apollo 8

Current Work: ?? What next??

Future Work:
I know the AGC pretty well so anything need doing there?

On Hold/Completed:
SPS TVC in P40 issues.
P11 FDAI Error Needles (98%) complete. Comitted. Working A7 scenario.
P06 AGC Standby. Concluded. It's done by the AGC PSU.
Got us a complete AOH Volume II
Swatch
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jasonims
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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2008, 06:21:15 PM »

S-IVB is extremely likely to either be the same as the S-II outer engines  -OR- its fixed because of the existence of the APUs on the side of the stage.
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My Project Apollo Work:
CM Visual
 -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
kneecaps
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« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2008, 05:00:52 AM »

S-IVB is extremely likely to either be the same as the S-II outer engines  -OR- its fixed because of the existence of the APUs on the side of the stage.

I'm pretty sure it's gimballed! I just don't have any info on the dive rates.

Apparently the S-II engines were limited to 7 degrees of travel in either direction...

And the S-I engines were limited to 5.1 degrees in either direction.
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"Okay. As soon as we find the Earth, we will do it."
- Frank Borman, Apollo 8

Current Work: ?? What next??

Future Work:
I know the AGC pretty well so anything need doing there?

On Hold/Completed:
SPS TVC in P40 issues.
P11 FDAI Error Needles (98%) complete. Comitted. Working A7 scenario.
P06 AGC Standby. Concluded. It's done by the AGC PSU.
Got us a complete AOH Volume II
kneecaps
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Posts: 217


36711000 kneecaps@shockpulse.co.uk
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2008, 07:04:54 AM »

The AS-503 saturn V report says the maximum S-IC gimbal angle was 2.06 degrees during the flight...so nominal deflection wasn't even half of maximum.
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"Okay. As soon as we find the Earth, we will do it."
- Frank Borman, Apollo 8

Current Work: ?? What next??

Future Work:
I know the AGC pretty well so anything need doing there?

On Hold/Completed:
SPS TVC in P40 issues.
P11 FDAI Error Needles (98%) complete. Comitted. Working A7 scenario.
P06 AGC Standby. Concluded. It's done by the AGC PSU.
Got us a complete AOH Volume II
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