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Project Apollo - NASSP 6.4.3 released!
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| | | |-+  Blowing this bit** up would be fun, what about RSO console?
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Author Topic: Blowing this bit** up would be fun, what about RSO console?  (Read 2814 times)
macieksoft
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RSO we are go we wanna blow!


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« on: August 09, 2015, 12:48:38 PM »

There is already a very basic MCC simulation called Apollo Ground Station and i think that it would be nice to have similar application simulating RSO console.

I think it would be rather easy to do and first of all fun to use. What you thinking about it? I can't wait to send a destruct command and don't you worry, i know how LES works so crew would survive that.

Also simulating Apollo Firing Room would be nice. I especially want to monitor boosters and send commands to S-IVB.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 02:31:32 PM by macieksoft » Logged

eddievhfan1984
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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2015, 03:24:29 PM »

Well, as it is, the booster stack just gets deconstructed (without BIG BOOM) when the LES is initiated. I think that's gotta be modified. Plus, how detailed an explosion do you want: just decomposing into random chunks, or stuff like the charges first rapidly venting propellant tanks before structural charges, and that sort of thing?
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macieksoft
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2015, 05:34:35 AM »

As detailed as practical. I have limited experience with coding sockets in VB.net (i written one application using socket) and i think that i could try (i am not sure if i can make it but i can always try) to make application that would simulate most basic RSO panel functions (just buttons but no debris flight path plotting).

Do you have any informations about RSO panel?
What kind of switches and indicators it have?
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eddievhfan1984
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2015, 12:21:42 PM »

http://tranquilitybaseblog.blogspot.com/2012_09_01_archive.html

This ought to help...
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macieksoft
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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2015, 08:24:59 AM »

But what about other switches and buttons?
Had RSO any informations about LES, any indications if LES already fired or not?
And RSO should be able to hold the launch, i also do not see such switch here.
Are you sure that this panel shown here was for Apollo program? I guess it is one from Space Shuttle era rather than Apollo.
He should be also able to terminate thrust i think.
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eddievhfan1984
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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2015, 11:50:15 AM »

The picture caption said it was from the 1960s. Technically, an Air Force officer attached to the Cape Canaveral Test Range would be the RSO on all NASA flights. The panel still makes sense to me this way:

-The safing switch would be part of the launch interlock: if this switch was not enabled, the ignition command would not be passed through the console to the ground sequencer.
-Test, arm, and destruct switches are self-explanatory.
-The three-position switch on the left controls the power/enabling for the redundant range safety circuits (and their associated ready/error lights)
-The mixing of switch order like that keeps one from unintentionally commanding a destruct (since the arming switch is not right next to the destruct switch)

As far as LES control, either the EDS on the spacecraft, the mission commander, or BOOSTER in the MCC/LCC would transmit an abort code. The RSO's job was strictly transmitting the destruct command and serving as part of the launch interlock. They would make the call to destroy the vehicle, but would also be seeing the visual feeds same as the other controllers, and would hopefully wait for the LES to fire. Even in a range safety issue, waiting those few seconds for the abort to initiate would not make the situation worse...
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macieksoft
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2015, 09:54:49 AM »

I found some other pictures and there was a launch interlock switch but it was a separate switch (not on FTS panel).
One of the pictures showing the switch with yellow guard, probably the launch interlock: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alloyjared/8016519080/

I guess that SAFE switch on FTS panel is rather cancelling tha ARM command than serving as launch interlock.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 09:59:04 AM by macieksoft » Logged

eddievhfan1984
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2015, 05:17:48 PM »

So they're momentary switches, not toggle switches? Or is it a toggle switch to enable a pushbutton as an additional safety step?

Also, from the Wikipedia page on range safety (might change due to US-centric article, but luck I found it), the ARM switch would be used as an engine shutdown command in addition to arming the detonators, and the DESTRUCT would perform the actual detonation.
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macieksoft
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« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2015, 04:55:08 AM »

I am not sure, that's why i am asking.
But i guess that ARM command will not shut down engines, i guess ARM command is just for safety. Also i heard that ARM command should illuminate abort light on CM panel to alert crew that RSO has armed the package.
And i also guess that booster in MCC or some guy in firing room could be able to terminate thrust. But they are just guesses.
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macieksoft
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2016, 04:57:31 PM »

I found some interestning thing. RSO seems to not be a god of destruction, there is someone above him.
This guy (or maybe guys) was sitting in firing room and could save the crew, spacecraft, launch vehicle and first of all the pad from rude RSO ;-)

Here are the panels:
Look at the key switch labelled destruct system:
http://apollolaunchcontrol.com/Apollo_Launch_Control/Control_Panels/Pages/Monitoring.html#18

Pad safety supervisor is the guy who has override switch to (con)troll RSO:
http://apollolaunchcontrol.com/Apollo_Launch_Control/Control_Panels/Pages/Monitoring.html#19
Another bypass switch:
http://apollolaunchcontrol.com/Apollo_Launch_Control/Control_Panels/Pages/Monitoring.html#20
Range time display... Range time?! What the heck is it?
http://apollolaunchcontrol.com/Apollo_Launch_Control/Control_Panels/Pages/Monitoring.html#21

So the conclusion is simple. 2 men (or more) rule like with nuclear missiles. Lone RSO was just another duck sucker who could not blow up the whole pad in any time :-P Quack quack....
But anybody knows if firing room guys could override RSO only when LV was on PAD? Or maybe they could do it at any time, including boost phase?
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eddievhfan1984
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2016, 12:00:52 PM »

Kinda/sorta on the two-man rule. The RSO bypass is more like a pre-launch interlock, to prevent inadvertent destruct signals while still on the pad. Sometimes those seconds saved by not having to go through another level of authority can make the difference...
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dseagrav
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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2016, 03:16:03 PM »

Range time is like MET but for range operations.
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