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Author Topic: ECS Issues  (Read 3249 times)
Thymo
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« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2016, 01:57:52 PM »

Yes , it is.
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rcflyinghokie
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« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2016, 09:26:37 AM »

When you launched this scn, did you use the auto checklist?
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Thymo
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« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2016, 09:51:36 AM »

I used the launch checklist from the word checklists.

My scenario is attached a couple of posts back.
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rcflyinghokie
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« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2016, 10:11:52 AM »

I used the launch checklist from the word checklists.

My scenario is attached a couple of posts back.

I ran it and there are a lot of problems with the ECS config, I configured the ECS in your scn and got a cabin temp increase in about 2 hours.  However if you properly configure it during launch and insertion it shouldn't drop at all.
The switches I changed were:
P325-Prim Glycol to Radiators:Flow
P351-Emergency Cabin Pressure: Both
P2-ECS RAD Flow cont: PWR
ECS RAD Heater: Prim 1
Suit Cir H2O Accum: Auto
Cabin Fan 1&2: On
H2 & O2 tank heaters: On

I have attached my post launch A9 scn if you wish to see.

* Apollo 9 Virtual AGC LVDC++ - Launch 0002.scn (99.44 KB - downloaded 73 times.)
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Thymo
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« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2016, 07:38:05 PM »

Yeah must have missed some step during launch. Even without doing nothing and accelerating for 2+ hours gets the temperature back to normal.
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macieksoft
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« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2018, 09:27:04 AM »

Seems like in one of recent builds ECS in CSM got broken.
I am now trying various saves that were working well some builds before and now i am getting issues with primary glycool loop.

It is simply overheating very quickly, even when CSM is in shadow. Glycool radiators gets hot very quickly warming up the loop. After spending around 30 minutes on orbit after insertion rad inlet and outlet are >100 *F.
I tried tampering with switches but got no luck. Glycool pumps are running, rads aren't bypassed, checked PA MFD ECS page and it shows normal wattage for primary glycool loop (around 2400), test wattage is at 0. When CSM gets in the shadow rads aren't cooling things at all. They are still very hot.

Anyone got such a problems?

EDIT: attaching scenarios

In PDI demo this bit** is already warmed up ;-P
In postlaunch scenario temp is normal but starts to go up in much less than 40 minutes.


* Apollo 11 PDI Demo 0004 0002.scn (219.83 KB - downloaded 31 times.)
* A11 t-1 0002.scn (105.94 KB - downloaded 24 times.)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 09:33:11 AM by macieksoft » Logged

macieksoft
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« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2018, 11:42:31 AM »

In build 986 ECS radiators seems fine. In auto mode they cool the loop quite well.
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rcflyinghokie
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« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2018, 11:57:08 AM »

Seems like in one of recent builds ECS in CSM got broken.
I am now trying various saves that were working well some builds before and now i am getting issues with primary glycool loop.

It is simply overheating very quickly, even when CSM is in shadow. Glycool radiators gets hot very quickly warming up the loop. After spending around 30 minutes on orbit after insertion rad inlet and outlet are >100 *F.
I tried tampering with switches but got no luck. Glycool pumps are running, rads aren't bypassed, checked PA MFD ECS page and it shows normal wattage for primary glycool loop (around 2400), test wattage is at 0. When CSM gets in the shadow rads aren't cooling things at all. They are still very hot.

Anyone got such a problems?

EDIT: attaching scenarios

In PDI demo this bit** is already warmed up ;-P
In postlaunch scenario temp is normal but starts to go up in much less than 40 minutes.



Glad you noticed this, I have had my head buried in the LM for too long it seems, I feel like Tom Kelly!  Anyways we think we narrowed down the change that caused this and are working a solution now, a fix *should* be up today.

EDIT:  Problem may be somewhere other than a recent valve change.  I will look at that previous build and see what could have changed that.

EDIT 2:  We found the issue your CSM should work normally now.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 04:04:11 PM by rcflyinghokie » Logged
macieksoft
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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2018, 09:01:54 AM »

So in build 1068 ECS gonna work properly?
Have you also checked manual mode? I remember haveing some problems with it in earlier builds. Temperature kept rising no matters which radiator i selected with man sel switch when mode was at manual. Even when in auto it worked well.
So that just my suggestion that manual mode could be broken.
Have you tried switching to manual and tampering with man sel switch to select particular radiator?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 09:05:49 AM by macieksoft » Logged

rcflyinghokie
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« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2018, 11:43:40 AM »

So in build 1068 ECS gonna work properly?
Have you also checked manual mode? I remember haveing some problems with it in earlier builds. Temperature kept rising no matters which radiator i selected with man sel switch when mode was at manual. Even when in auto it worked well.
So that just my suggestion that manual mode could be broken.
Have you tried switching to manual and tampering with man sel switch to select particular radiator?

The build works properly, at least works how it used to.  The CSM ECS will need a facelift in the future.

Regarding your manual mode question, which procedure are you using to accomplish this switchover?
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macieksoft
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« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2018, 12:43:02 PM »

Flow control switch to down position (MAN SEL position which regarding to documentation should transfer control of radiators to MAN SEL switch) and then use MAN SEL switch up or down to select one of two radiators. Center position of MAN SEL switch is bypass of both radiators and IIRC it worked fine.
Problem was that when using radiator 1 or 2 selected manually (trough MAN SEL switch) in both cases temperature was always rising. When i put it into center it was rising even faster, but this was normal as radiators should be bypassed in this position so temperature rise is what you expect.

For normal automatic operation u use flow control switch in upper position (labelled PWR) which transfers control to auto switch which lets you select which controller you wanna use (there are 2 controllers which automatically adjusts flow trough radiators and bypass of the hot one). In additon to this putting AUTO switch in upper position (labelled AUTO) gives automatic switchover to second controller if primary had to fail.

Normal (automatic) operation is with AUTO and FLOW CONT switches both in upper position and MAN SEL switch with any position (this switch is ignored when FLOW CONT switch is at PWR).

It is described in AOH control and displays at page 3-117.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 12:55:50 PM by macieksoft » Logged

rcflyinghokie
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« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2018, 01:03:20 PM »

Flow control switch to down position (MAN SEL position which regarding to documentation should transfer control of radiators to MAN SEL switch) and then use MAN SEL switch up or down to select one of two radiators. Center position of MAN SEL switch is bypass of both radiators and IIRC it worked fine.
Problem was that when using radiator 1 or 2 selected manually (trough MAN SEL switch) in both cases temperature was always rising. When i put it into center it was rising even faster, but this was normal as radiators should be bypassed in this position so temperature rise is what you expect.

For normal automatic operation u use flow control switch in upper position (labelled PWR) which transfers control to auto switch which lets you select which controller you wanna use (there are 2 controllers which automatically adjusts flow trough radiators and bypass of the hot one). In additon to this putting AUTO switch in upper position (labelled AUTO) gives automatic switchover to second controller if primary had to fail.

Normal (automatic) operation is with AUTO and FLOW CONT switches both in upper position and MAN SEL switch with any position (this switch is ignored when FLOW CONT switch is at PWR).

It is described in AOH control and displays at page 3-117.

Right but do you have a switchover procedure?

And I just tried it myself and get the same results.  Probably overlooked in the original design of the CSM ECS.  Honestly that will probably not be worked on in detail until the next version when we take the time and overhaul the CSM.
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macieksoft
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« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2018, 01:53:59 PM »

I dont have procedure, i just flip the switches ;-P
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macieksoft
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« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2018, 11:02:14 AM »

Just made some tests with actual release and checked that.
AUTO is working fine.
MANual is not so much. I did a test so i put one radiator in full sun and another one in full shadow and started to play with switches.

At AUTO cooling works well. At MANual it gets quite hot. Difference between radiator outlet seems about 10-15 *F between the sunny and the shadow one when using manual switching. So there is actual difference, but its quite small.
Even when using shadow one it seems to not be cooling things very well when in manual.

As soon as i switch to AUTO it drops a lot and cool things very well.
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rcflyinghokie
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« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2018, 05:55:28 PM »

Without diving into the code I cannot explain that, probably isnt completely ready to handle those situations Tongue
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