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Project Apollo - NASSP 6.4.3 released!
http://nassp.sf.net
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| | | |-+  Caryl Chessman's challenge ;-) Propsed changes for ECS system.
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Author Topic: Caryl Chessman's challenge ;-) Propsed changes for ECS system.  (Read 1337 times)
macieksoft
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« on: December 22, 2016, 03:03:41 PM »

Well, the thread name is rather a brutal black humor, but i have some ides related to the ECS.

First, there is a simplification inside ECS system, its related to the carbon dioxide removal. The problem is that poison appears in the suit circuit even when astronauts are connected to the cabin circuit.
So i have idea to make ECS posion removal following way:
-When astronauts are connected to cabin flow they should contaminate suit circuit. When suit compressor is ON CO2 scrubbers should be removing poison from suit circuit.
-When astronauts are connected to cabin flow they should contaminate cabin air.
-When suit circuit return walve is open suit and cabin circuits should become interconnected and astronauts should contaminate both cabin and suit circuit. OFC when suit compressor is ON CO2 scrubbers should be removing poison from both circuits.
-Dumping cabin air should purge the CO2 from cabin air.
-Opening hatch after landing should also free the cabin air from poison. Same with post landing compressor.

Also it would be nice to simulate actual CO2 scrubbers and simulate replacing them during mission. Also switching between primary and secondary scrubber could be nice.

What you thinking about it? It would be nice to have it working because now its a little annoying for me that when i land and open hatch i am still forced to have suit compressor going to remove CO2. Also now there is no implementation of cabin air CO2 poisoning and its quite unrealistic to see that CO2 is always generated in suit circuit no matters what.

Then we could make Caryl Chessman's challenge. It would be about surviving as long as its possible without functional CO2 scrubbers :-P

Also it would be nice to have way to simulate draining potable water. We even have clickable walves for it. So what about making them working? It would be simple, just add function that would slowly drain potable water from tank when walve is opened Happy
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 03:07:48 PM by macieksoft » Logged

indy91
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« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2016, 08:36:07 AM »

Actually, I think CO2 can already kill the crew. There is a simulation of crew death, recently I managed to forget a switch setting for Apollo 8 during the insertion checklist, I think, and then the suits overheated. I managed to not notice that and at about 50h GET I heard a weird sound and PAMFD told me the crew is dead. The criteria for crew death are:

-Suit pressure lower than 2.8 PSI for 10 minutes
-Suit pressure higher than 22 PSI for 1 hour
-Suit temperature above 45C or under 0C for 12 hours
-Suit CO2 above 10 mmHg for 30 minutes
-Acceleration exceeds 12g for 10 seconds
-Touchdown speeds exceeds 15 m/s

So there is quite a bit simulated already.

About the CO2, I think currently it is removed by the suit circuits and the suits never stop being able to do that. So the CO2 scrubbers of the CSM are not necessary and are not simulated. I'm not entirely sure how many of the points you mentioned about the CO2 are simulated. But I think expanding the CSM ECS is a nice project that could run concurrent to any work on major NASSP releases. So if anyone (maybe you yourself @macieksoft?) wants to dig really deep into the literature (AOH etc.) about the ECS, find out exactly how it works right now in NASSP and what still needs to be simulated then I would really like to see that being done! NASSP is an open source project and anybody that wants to can contribute. Replacing the CO2 scrubbers will require some panel work and maybe it's something we shouldn't implement until we have a 3D panel. Seems easier to handle in a 3D environment.
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jalexb88
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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2016, 02:09:22 PM »

Hmm thats weird you mention that indy, Im at 35 hours in Apollo 8 and I just got the crew death alarm as well. I don't believe I forgot any switches as I was following everything in the checklist MFD, maybe a new bug?

EDIT: Its also Suit temp pegged at the top of the indicator, but I dont know what switch it is, this has never happened before.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 02:21:27 PM by jalexb88 » Logged
rcflyinghokie
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« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2016, 03:05:24 PM »

I flew one just recently with no such problems, able to identify the problem?  A missed switch in post insertion or maybe an ECS check?
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indy91
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« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2016, 03:48:58 PM »

It's either a Checklist MFD problem in Prelaunch through Post Insertion or if jalexb88 also used the T-60 seconds scenario I created, then it could be a problem in there, maybe I missed a step in the Prelaunch Checklist. I kind of doubt it's an actual bug, nothing was changed for the ECS in a while. I'll check the checklists.
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meik84
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« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2016, 04:26:01 PM »

Provided that the primary glycol loop is good (EVAP OUT TEMP <50 F), the only reason left is a bypassed suit circuit heat exchanger. SUIT CIRCUIT HEAT EXCH - ON for at least 20 sec should clear the problem. If not, the bypass valve can be positioned manually; it's on panel 382, the arrow has to point to 'FLOW'.
I can't tell if there's a checklist problem; I'm using the real checklists from the AOH. I had them printed out for little money when my brother worked at the printing shop of his Uni... Very Happy
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indy91
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« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2016, 05:07:58 PM »

It is the scenario problem. In the Apollo 8 T-60 seconds scenario the Suit Heat Exchanger Primary Glycol Rotary is set to the bypass position, in the new scenario I have now created it is set to Flow. It should be set to Flow for launch. No idea why I set it to bypass, before the Backup Crew Prelaunch Checks it is already set to Flow and I can't find any prelaunch checklist where it would be set to bypass. Anyway, the suit temperature in the old scenario was already up to 70F, now it is 50 as it should be. I'll upload the new T-60 scenario shortly...
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