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Author Topic: Apollo Spacecraft Components Meshing  (Read 78209 times)
Swatch
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jasonims
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« Reply #165 on: June 24, 2008, 10:02:08 PM »

Correct and I could probably generically texture what's left and have it ready for release in a week right now, but with Moonwalker on the missing textures I'm looking forward to his additions before an 'alpha release' for performance testing among a specific few people (I did this with the current VC a long time ago).  Also, while I'm waiting on those, I'm working on adding a few details to the mesh.  Just finished a completely new set of RHC and THC meshes that I feel are much better looking than the current ones and, once textured, will look superb.  They're also a 2/3rds the size, as the old ones were pretty a inefficient use of triangles.  Currently the mesh resides at a smaller overall vert/face count, but the textures are HUGE by comparison to most orbiter addons, so I'm concerned about performance issues related to texture sizes.

I'm looking at the following...
1 4096x4096 texture (other panels and surfaces along with plenty of details that will eventually be folded into this)
4 2048x2048 texture (main panels for legibility)

Keep in mind that I can shrink those textures, but doing so reduces legibility which is something we want in our VC.

On a side note... I NEED a copy of the FDAI ball texture in bitmap form!  It's not compatable with any of my DXT/DDS reader/converters.
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My Project Apollo Work:
CM Visual
 -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
Zachstar
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« Reply #166 on: June 24, 2008, 10:35:53 PM »

I say just do what is best for you and hopefully readability and leave the rest to Orbiter's future.

Hell in the early days of 3D you normally were playing with VERY low FPS counts anyway.

I've never had a problem with large texture size anyway. And also keep in mind the HUGE sizes for Planetary rendering.
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Swatch
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jasonims
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« Reply #167 on: June 25, 2008, 01:27:51 AM »

And also keep in mind the HUGE sizes for Planetary rendering.

How big are we talking here?
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My Project Apollo Work:
CM Visual
 -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
Zachstar
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« Reply #168 on: June 25, 2008, 02:00:44 AM »

Orbiter Earth L10 is 187 MB unpacked

Moon L8 is 16.4 MB unpacked

So as you can see panel texture size is not going to affect things too too much.
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FordPrefect
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« Reply #169 on: June 26, 2008, 10:42:58 AM »

I didn't find a more suitable thread so I put my one question directed to Swatch here:

Did you change the shape of the exterior CM capsule mesh? To me, it looks more stretched / pointier than in earlier NASSP versions. It looks a bit off compared to the real capsule. In respect to the outside shape I think the AMSO CM is right on, except for the heat-shield. That seems to be wrong both in AMSO and NASSP. It looks too flat at the center, it should have more the shape of a cut-off piece of a sphere (sorry, don't know the proper wording right now Ashamed)

If there's interest, I could try to build a new exterior mesh for the CM. Actually, I already started doing so.  Very Happy
Hopefully, any discussable changes on the exterior hull mesh won't interfere with the VC you've done!

Again, this is a detail very low on the prio list, I'm only curious. Thanks Swatch!

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My Project Apollo work in progress:
* New detailed Lunar Module Ascent stage with virtual cockpit (VC currently planned as eye candy only) 18 % done

My Project Apollo work to be continued:
* new Service Module SPS engine bell
* various Saturn V textures, exhaust textures
* SIM Bay for the SM


My long-term plans are to create a:
* New detailed Lunar Module descent stage (eventually models of all flown LM's)
* New F-1 engines for the S-1C stage showing the foil (batting) insulation
* New LUT and launch pad (if nobody else does it)
Swatch
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jasonims
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« Reply #170 on: June 26, 2008, 11:32:36 AM »

two things...but first, are you talking about what's in CVS now or my current VC... which I don't think I've released a picture showing that...

@proper shape:  Actually it turns out that the previous NASSP models have all been too long.  I initially built the VC (in CVS) from the outer shell of the CM, but have since revised it greatly (and not commited).  Now the actual crew compartment is accurately scaled as I've been using a few measurements I took when I went to Glen and proportions from Virtual Apollo and other sources.  One thing I haven't changed yet is the proper location of the tunnel hatch so that it would still match up with the exterior model NASSP has been using. As a result, the thing looks very long, but the tunnel should be about 2/3rds the length.

@exterior mesh:   I had planned to build the correctly dimensioned exterior mesh or manipulate the current one to fit the proper measurements, and the Heat Shield is on my list of things to correct.  I was going to do this after I release the VC because it will require offsets to be reset in the programming, as well as a modified LES to fit properly.

@textures:  Awesome... I feel better now.
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My Project Apollo Work:
CM Visual
 -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
FordPrefect
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« Reply #171 on: June 26, 2008, 11:54:05 AM »

two things...but first, are you talking about what's in CVS now or my current VC... which I don't think I've released a picture showing that...

Sorry for not being more specific. I have the latest beta snapshot, so I'm talking about the mesh in the CVS.

@proper shape:  Actually it turns out that the previous NASSP models have all been too long.  I initially built the VC (in CVS) from the outer shell of the CM, but have since revised it greatly (and not commited).  Now the actual crew compartment is accurately scaled as I've been using a few measurements I took when I went to Glen and proportions from Virtual Apollo and other sources.  One thing I haven't changed yet is the proper location of the tunnel hatch so that it would still match up with the exterior model NASSP has been using. As a result, the thing looks very long, but the tunnel should be about 2/3rds the length.
Okay, so that means the CM will look shorter in your final version than the current CVS mesh (?).

@exterior mesh:   I had planned to build the correctly dimensioned exterior mesh or manipulate the current one to fit the proper measurements, and the Heat Shield is on my list of things to correct.  I was going to do this after I release the VC because it will require offsets to be reset in the programming, as well as a modified LES to fit properly.
Alrighty. Sounds good! Thanks Swatch!
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My Project Apollo work in progress:
* New detailed Lunar Module Ascent stage with virtual cockpit (VC currently planned as eye candy only) 18 % done

My Project Apollo work to be continued:
* new Service Module SPS engine bell
* various Saturn V textures, exhaust textures
* SIM Bay for the SM


My long-term plans are to create a:
* New detailed Lunar Module descent stage (eventually models of all flown LM's)
* New F-1 engines for the S-1C stage showing the foil (batting) insulation
* New LUT and launch pad (if nobody else does it)
Swatch
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jasonims
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« Reply #172 on: June 26, 2008, 12:00:30 PM »

yes, the new one will be shorter (The slope angle of the backshell is off by about 2-4 degrees in the current one)
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My Project Apollo Work:
CM Visual
 -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
FordPrefect
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« Reply #173 on: July 10, 2008, 12:23:59 PM »

Tschachim and/or Swatch:

I'm thinking about modeling the SPS engine bell mesh from scratch. The current one is not bad, however comparing with reference photos, to me it looks like a part of the SM needing improvement. Currently, I believe I could create a .3ds or mesh file of it, with its own texture, to be "integrated" to the existing SM mesh. Would this be feasible? Also, is having a seperate texture for the SPS engine, or in other words, using two textures on one model (after combining it with the SM mesh) something to be strictly avoided? If not, I'll have a go at it this weekend.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 12:26:17 PM by FordPrefect » Logged

My Project Apollo work in progress:
* New detailed Lunar Module Ascent stage with virtual cockpit (VC currently planned as eye candy only) 18 % done

My Project Apollo work to be continued:
* new Service Module SPS engine bell
* various Saturn V textures, exhaust textures
* SIM Bay for the SM


My long-term plans are to create a:
* New detailed Lunar Module descent stage (eventually models of all flown LM's)
* New F-1 engines for the S-1C stage showing the foil (batting) insulation
* New LUT and launch pad (if nobody else does it)
Tschachim
Project Apollo - NASSP
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« Reply #174 on: July 11, 2008, 05:58:46 AM »

The SPS is already a mesh of its own, so if you just replace Meshes\ProjectApollo\SM-SPS.msh and keep the positions/dimensions we don't even need to change the code.  Cool

A separate texture should be fine. As you're using gmax as far as I remember please don't provide a .3ds file, but the original .gmax file (or the Orbiter .msh file directly, of course). Just in case you have problems using the msh2max converter, I can provide the current SM-SPS.msh in gmax format, too.

Cheers
Tschachim
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Swatch
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jasonims
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« Reply #175 on: July 11, 2008, 08:05:38 AM »

Yes, its a seperate mesh for two reasons.... one is because we'll eventually want to have it gimbal (something that is done easier and more efficiently with meshes than animations) and the other is because I've never liked that mesh of it, but it was taken from the original SM we had because I didn't have a good set of reference photos or dimensions to draw from.

So have at it!
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My Project Apollo Work:
CM Visual
 -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
FordPrefect
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« Reply #176 on: July 11, 2008, 08:13:55 AM »

Alrighty. Thanks to you both for your replies. Expect an update within the next 48 hours.

BTW, how far are we from having the SPS engine actually gimballing?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 08:33:17 AM by FordPrefect » Logged

My Project Apollo work in progress:
* New detailed Lunar Module Ascent stage with virtual cockpit (VC currently planned as eye candy only) 18 % done

My Project Apollo work to be continued:
* new Service Module SPS engine bell
* various Saturn V textures, exhaust textures
* SIM Bay for the SM


My long-term plans are to create a:
* New detailed Lunar Module descent stage (eventually models of all flown LM's)
* New F-1 engines for the S-1C stage showing the foil (batting) insulation
* New LUT and launch pad (if nobody else does it)
movieman
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« Reply #177 on: July 11, 2008, 10:27:44 AM »

BTW, how far are we from having the SPS engine actually gimballing?

As I understand it, the exhaust gimbals when told to by the AGC, but the mesh doesn't.
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FordPrefect
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« Reply #178 on: July 13, 2008, 11:47:31 AM »

Thanks movieman for the heads-up. Can't wait to see the the gimballing animated.

Tiny heads up: wasn't able to spend as much time as I wanted on the SPS engine bell. Current status:



Not sure if I can finish it today.
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My Project Apollo work in progress:
* New detailed Lunar Module Ascent stage with virtual cockpit (VC currently planned as eye candy only) 18 % done

My Project Apollo work to be continued:
* new Service Module SPS engine bell
* various Saturn V textures, exhaust textures
* SIM Bay for the SM


My long-term plans are to create a:
* New detailed Lunar Module descent stage (eventually models of all flown LM's)
* New F-1 engines for the S-1C stage showing the foil (batting) insulation
* New LUT and launch pad (if nobody else does it)
Swatch
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jasonims
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« Reply #179 on: July 14, 2008, 12:48:40 AM »

how many polys are we looking at?
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My Project Apollo Work:
CM Visual
 -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
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