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Author Topic: Apollo Spacecraft Components Meshing  (Read 77445 times)
Swatch
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jasonims
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« Reply #180 on: July 14, 2008, 01:23:45 AM »

To help you along your way for texturing, some pictures I've discovered over the years...







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My Project Apollo Work:
CM Visual
 -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
FordPrefect
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« Reply #181 on: July 15, 2008, 05:01:43 PM »

Incidentally my current model has pretty much the same polygon count as the current SPS mesh we use - 2408. This will increase slightly, since I'm going to add some more detail. I guess the final version will see an increase by about 30%, I'll try to keep that to a minimum though.

Thanks for the pics, Swatch. The first two images are exactly what I was looking for, great find!
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My Project Apollo work in progress:
* New detailed Lunar Module Ascent stage with virtual cockpit (VC currently planned as eye candy only) 18 % done

My Project Apollo work to be continued:
* new Service Module SPS engine bell
* various Saturn V textures, exhaust textures
* SIM Bay for the SM


My long-term plans are to create a:
* New detailed Lunar Module descent stage (eventually models of all flown LM's)
* New F-1 engines for the S-1C stage showing the foil (batting) insulation
* New LUT and launch pad (if nobody else does it)
Swatch
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jasonims
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« Reply #182 on: July 15, 2008, 05:25:14 PM »

Sounds good on the poly count...  if I have time I'm going to try going through the meshes and clean up as much as I can once I finish with the VC, but in case I don't have time, I just wanted to see if we'd have a major increase.   You can probably increase it by as much as 50% if you need to.

On those pictures... I was surprised to find them myself.
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My Project Apollo Work:
CM Visual
 -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
FordPrefect
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« Reply #183 on: March 01, 2009, 07:42:35 PM »

Whew... It looks like I was finally able to fix the errors which happened during the conversion from editable polygon to editable mesh on my new SPS engine bell model. I will add some more details and am going to map the textures on it within the next few days.

Regarding the LM ascent stage, I suspect I have to start from scratch again, it is awfully complicated to port it correctly from editable polygon to editable mesh. (Editable Polygon modeling is a very powerful modeling mode in Max, it gives you more freedom in altering the shapes than editable mesh mode)
The manual conversion of all wrong triangulation it just a nightmare. I'll do it as an editable mesh right from the start to the end. I have left over only one idea how the port-over could be managable, I'll try that.
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My Project Apollo work in progress:
* New detailed Lunar Module Ascent stage with virtual cockpit (VC currently planned as eye candy only) 18 % done

My Project Apollo work to be continued:
* new Service Module SPS engine bell
* various Saturn V textures, exhaust textures
* SIM Bay for the SM


My long-term plans are to create a:
* New detailed Lunar Module descent stage (eventually models of all flown LM's)
* New F-1 engines for the S-1C stage showing the foil (batting) insulation
* New LUT and launch pad (if nobody else does it)
Swatch
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jasonims
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« Reply #184 on: June 20, 2009, 10:18:51 AM »

Long time no see ProjectApollo Programmers!   First, let me apologize for being absent for the past year.   As of June 13th, however, I am officially a 'rocket scientist' after graduating from the University of Cincinnati!  Tomorrow I am headed to Europe for a 2.5 week whirlwind journey, but when I return I will pick my VC back up and see if I can finish it up.

I just wanted you to know I haven't forgotten about you, but I'm back and look forward to developing again.
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My Project Apollo Work:
CM Visual
 -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
Tschachim
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« Reply #185 on: June 20, 2009, 10:52:11 AM »

Congratulations and welcome back!  Happy
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NoName
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« Reply #186 on: June 27, 2009, 06:28:54 AM »

Nice to see you still aboard Swatch Happy

By the way, I still have to finish the tunnel graphics for the CSM VC Wink

Can't wait to see the CSM finsihed.
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Swatch
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jasonims
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« Reply #187 on: July 14, 2009, 08:17:28 AM »

Hey Moonwalker!  I just sat down with the VC a bit this morning, got the entire lower forward Equipment Bay textured with your textures...

Now there are only two major outstanding textures...  The Systems tunnel on the bottom of the CM (that conduit thing around underneath the couches on the heatshield side) and the LEM-CM crew transfer tunnel at the top of the CM.  There's a few minor things to do, such as hand controllers, but I think I can do those pretty well.  Are you still up to doing those other two textures?

Other things to finish: 

  • Mesh and Texture equipment thingy above the head of the center seat below the hatch and under the couches... no idea what it was, but its hard to get looking right.
  • Texture hand controllers
  • Add equipment and lockers into stowage area below couches. (not preventing release)

Current Mesh Stats:
Faces: 23129
Verts:  21543 (probably about x3 when exported to Orbiter)
Textures (8, probably reduced at some point):  ~30Mb for Hi-Res,  <8 for lo-res when finished hopefully
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 08:34:57 AM by Swatch » Logged

My Project Apollo Work:
CM Visual
 -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
Swatch
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jasonims
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« Reply #188 on: July 15, 2009, 09:44:28 PM »


Other things to finish: 

  • Mesh and Texture equipment thingy above the head of the center seat below the hatch and under the couches... no idea what it was, but its hard to get looking right.

Cross that off the list... it looks great!  Thumbs Up

EDIT:

    Quote
    • Texture hand controllers

    ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!!!
    « Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 05:24:19 PM by Swatch » Logged

    My Project Apollo Work:
    CM Visual
     -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
    Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
    New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

    Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

    Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
    EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
    EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
    SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
    J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
    LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
    Zachstar
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    « Reply #189 on: July 18, 2009, 12:40:41 PM »

    Nice work man! Glad to see you back in action!
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    Swatch
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    jasonims
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    « Reply #190 on: July 21, 2009, 01:41:44 PM »

    Well, the Hatch Tunnel and the Systems Tunnel are all thats left for the VC from what I can tell.
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    My Project Apollo Work:
    CM Visual
     -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
    Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
    New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

    Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

    Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
    EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
    EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
    SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
    J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
    LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
    movieman
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    « Reply #191 on: July 21, 2009, 11:28:56 PM »

    Good news! So is it configured to be able to implement working switches, gauges, DSKY, etc?
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    Swatch
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    jasonims
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    « Reply #192 on: July 22, 2009, 11:30:32 AM »

    I knew this discussion was going to come up soon....  Cool

    That depends on what you mean by configured to do that.  I have not done any actual programming for the VC that actually works yet.  A long time ago I fumbled around with that, but couldn't get anything working.  When I actually get the mesh+texture finished, then I will start looking into that again, but for now I just want the visuals finished. Happy

    Below is where I talk about the Advanced realism we COULD get with the VC, but almost all of it will incur serious performance penalties.


    As far as switches are concerned...

    Here is a very important question for you all.    I can add actual meshed switches that we manipulate, but that will mean either LOTS of meshgroups (1 for each switch) or LOTS of individual meshes.  Alternatively, we just have the clicks do something, but not actually give any visual indication.  Certainly we will have a 'clickable' cockpit, but there's a bit of an issue with how to get feedback from that switch click.

    Option #1:  I put the switch meshes in the VC itself with each one its own meshgroup.  We then use the mesh manipulation functions to 'flip them' them.  This has a lot of meshgroups (kinda sucks to make), and we've seen in the Saturn V mesh what the performance penalty is with that.

    Option #2:  I make 1 generic switch mesh, and when we register the switch, we create an instance of this mesh at the proper location and then use the mesh manipulation functions to affect that particular switch.  This has the biggest unknown as to performance hit.  It could be a bigger hit than that of Option #1, but also it could be more efficient.  I don't know how Orbiter will handle 400+ meshes in its actual meshlist for the vessel.  It may be very efficient for that, or it may take forever to render that.  Also, I'm not sure if the mesh is loaded only once, or if each time the mesh is registered, it reads the file again.  If it's the latter, that's a lot of overhead, as well as additional space taken up.

    Option #3:  We use a dynamic texture that we can draw onto.  I can already tell you though that this is a lousy idea because of the size of the textures we're using.

    Option #4:  Manipulate mesh vertices.  Here we have the absolutely most efficient, but also the biggest pain in the butt.  First, all switches will need to be numbered in a universal order.  Using this order, I will create each individual switch so that the vertices will be in order.  When I create the switch in the mesh, I will make sure they all are at the 'centered' position.  We can then access their vertices individually and get the 'normal' direction to switch it into the 'Up' or 'Down' position.  Each Switch will be very simple looking, consisting of just 4 vertices in a squashed tetrahedron shape.  Using the numbered order we laid out before, we'll just use an (n*4)+v formula to actually access the proper vertices (n is switch #, v is vert # within that switch) within the switch mesh group.  Like I said though, this requires a bit of abstraction between the VC and what the code expects.  Then we'll just write a routine that automatically updates the appearance according to what the current state of the switch is.

    Note: This is really only an issue for the switches since there are so many of them... some special controls can be done doing option #1 or 2.


    Gauges, DSKY, etc.

    These of course can follow any of the options above, but there are fewer instances of them, so some of the less efficient methods may be easiest and therefore best.

    DSKY:  I planned to use the dynamic textures for it. Its the only option really... but it will be its own texture and small, so it won't be an issue.

    Gauges:  Do you want to have a physical representation or a 2D representation?  Like the switches, we can manipulate actual mesh pointers (but fewer of them obviously), or we can use dynamic textures, but if we used dynamic textures, it will increase the texture count, but not really increase the memory used as the textures are fairly small.


    What I need:
    • Opinions on which of the above we want to do.
    • Programming help on whatever is decided upon.


    END ADVANCED DISCUSSION

    Once I finish the visual representation, I will commit it and then set about to making lo-res textures.  After that's done, I will start optimizing what I have for implementing the above features.  Finally I will optimize the mesh itself.
    Logged

    My Project Apollo Work:
    CM Visual
     -VC (~75% complete: texture work beginning again; mesh-78%; texture-70%)
    Propulsion Particle Improvements (Focused on S1B right now, BETA 1.0 has been commited)
    New Docking Method (~50% complete: research complete; coding partially completed, testing not underway)

    Future Work:  (if it's here, it's deemed unnecessary to upcoming release)

    Older Work:  (if it's here, it's fair game to whoever wants to improve)
    EMS Implementation (committed: minor flaws, but groundwork is there, needs extensive testing)
    EMS scrolls (committed: not refined, but usable)
    SM Visual (committed: mesh-finished, texture-60%; possibly revisited in future)
    J2 Texture (commited: room for improvement)
    LRV (committed: mesh-finished, texture-90%; in future a ground up rebuild may be in order, but not on my plans)
    Zachstar
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    « Reply #193 on: July 22, 2009, 01:20:56 PM »

    In my uneducated opinion. When faced with such a likely performance hit with a mostly clickable cockpit in the DX7 client with its limitations. Perhaps it may be a better idea to just do the bare minimum of switches and DSKY until the time comes where the Open GL client and its greatly increased performance can be considered?
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    movieman
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    « Reply #194 on: July 22, 2009, 02:42:16 PM »

    In the short term we could concentrate on the DSKY, gauges, caution and warning display, etc, and leave the switches for a while. But I'd tend to go for option 4, so long as it's not too much of a pain to create... I'm not sure how you plan to make a switch from four vertices though?

    Either way, anything that reduces the number of mesh groups seems to be a good idea.

    I'd also vote for 3D gauges if possible.
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