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Tschachim
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« Reply #60 on: January 11, 2006, 12:07:48 PM »

Yes, you're right, thanks for the reference. Just to have the informations complete here the relevant part in the control and display reference:



So it looks like we have to jettison the tower manually! Do you want to do the necessary changes in the code?

But I'm still not sure if the event timer was reset at that time during normal flight. The AOH sequencial systems says: "Utilization of the event timer in conjunction with the visual light cue [i.e. the S-II SEP light] will enable the crew to jettision the LET at the correct time."

I'm not sure but it looks like they used the event timer to read the time and compared it with the checklist, but didn't wait until it was reset to zero?

Cheers
Tschachim
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movieman
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« Reply #61 on: January 11, 2006, 12:25:15 PM »

Problem is, it's a massive change because there's no support at all for having the LET attached after SII seperation. Really we need to replace all the SetStage() functions with one single function which takes a structure with a bunch of flags about the current state and sets up the meshes appropriately... as I said in the other thread in Planning, that's probably something for 7.1.

Also, you can do exciting stuff like firing the LES motor without seperating it from the CM or the CM from the SM Happy.

As for the Event Timer, it seems logical that they'd zero it at SII seperation to determine when to jettison: otherwise they could just use the mission timer.
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retro
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« Reply #62 on: January 11, 2006, 12:44:58 PM »

As with most Apollo systems, the crew could manually command the LES jettison if the automatic system failed]

AP 16 was auto   also ap 17 was in auto tower jet !

mode 2 auto or manual select

I am asking somebody that worked at nasa for the entire apollo project
if he dont know he knows someone that will,as soon as i hear from him
ill let you know !
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Tschachim
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« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2006, 12:58:45 PM »

Quote from: movieman
Problem is, it's a massive change because there's no support at all for having the LET attached after SII seperation. Really we need to replace all the SetStage() functions with one single function which takes a structure with a bunch of flags about the current state and sets up the meshes appropriately... as I said in the other thread in Planning, that's probably something for 7.1.

Yes, I also can't do such a big change at the moment, so we'll wait...

Quote from: movieman
Also, you can do exciting stuff like firing the LES motor without seperating it from the CM or the CM from the SM Happy.

It would be great if we can do things like that! Very Happy Very Happy

Quote from: movieman
As for the Event Timer, it seems logical that they'd zero it at SII seperation to determine when to jettison: otherwise they could just use the mission timer.

Hmm, but there's also nothing in all launch checklists I know about an event timer reset during normal flight (but all say you have to switch the tower jettison switch to up). All say it's reset only in case of an abort...

Cheers
Tschachim
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Christophe
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« Reply #64 on: January 12, 2006, 08:46:09 AM »

Quote from: movieman
aoh-v1-2-09-seqsys.pdf page 31 implies that those switches are the only way to jettison the LET. The pushbutton fires the escape tower main motor if the seperation motor fails to fire, but it still has to be seperated first using the switches.


Hi Movieman and Tschachim!
I'studied the doc you mentionned and you're perfectly right and I was wrong! I was surprised to discover that the LET was jettisonned manually but documents are incontestable.
Sorry to be so narrow-minded Embarassed
Quote
Problem is, it's a massive change because there's no support at all for having the LET attached after SII seperation. Really we need to replace all the SetStage() functions with one single function which takes a structure with a bunch of flags about the current state and sets up the meshes appropriately... as I said in the other thread in Planning, that's probably something for 7.1.

I've just had an idea for an intermediate and temporary solution which is maybe simple and easier to do:
This morning I launched a launch scenario to try to jettison the tower manually. So, just after the SII ignition I switched the 2 buttons on UP position but nothing happened... I waited a few minutes for the automatic jettison and ... the LET stayed in place: My switches were still on OFF position, so I switched back to AUTO, and then the LET immediately fired and separated automatically.
That gave me an idea :idea:
Would it be possible just to invert the switch positions?
I mean that we let the switches on AUTO for launch like Checklist says but if the AUTO position is actually wired to OFF for the internal system and the OFF position wired to AUTO, when time has come to switch to the UP position the system understands in fact "AUTO" and then the LET jettisons automatically but looks like the system is working manually.
I hope you understand me because I'm not sure to be clear...
In fact, with this feature we only lost the ability of an automatic jettison following an abort, because the switches in virtual AUTO position would actually be in OFF. But, according to the Apollo 15 Check list, during any abort mode using the LES (1A, 1B and 1C) it is asked to the astronaut to take the TWR JETT switches on UP position, probably for redundance. So if we follow this procedure we keep the ability of a tower jettison which is in fact the most important. And everybody knows that critical launch failure are very rare in NASSP (for the moment Wink )

Would it be difficult to do such a release?
You know I'm the worst informatician of the world (in fact not an informatician at all), so it's far beyond my skill to do that work!
I even don't know if it's possible?
If not, no matter, we can let this feature in its state for the moment. After all, compare to the entire flight, LET jettison is just a small detail...

It was just a suggestion, an idea...

Cheers...
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Moonwalker
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« Reply #65 on: January 12, 2006, 11:24:40 PM »

The csm instrument panel for cabin pressurization control is completely finished now ^^ Tomorrow I'm going to implement it and finish my work on the csm panels Very Happy

You'll be able to enter panel 325/326 by using CTRL + ARROW LEFT when you are in left csm panel view Wink

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mikaelanderlund
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« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2006, 04:43:00 AM »

Thanks a lot to all of you developpers for your fantastic job. It's nice to see that we are coming more near release of 7.0.

Mikael
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Tschachim
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« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2006, 06:04:59 AM »

Hi Moonwalker, this looks great, thanks again!  Happy

Hi Christophe,
I think something like you suggested would be possible, but a very "hacky" solution: As Movieman pointed out tower jettison is internally handled like staging, so you can manually jettision the tower only after interstage separation (this is why you failed to do it directly after the SII ignition) and if you do no tower jettision at all (switch both switches to off (center)) it will vanish nevertheless after SII/SIVB staging. So I think Movieman is right, we need to change the complete state handing for that, otherwise most users will probably fly the SII stage completely with tower and think it's intended that it disappears at SII/SIVB staging...

Cheers
Tschachim
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movieman
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« Reply #68 on: January 13, 2006, 07:56:08 PM »

There's now a hacky implementation of the sequential systems logic switches and pyro arm switches. You'll need to turn pyro arm on to seperate from the SIVb and so forth, and sequential systems too for re-entry.

In some cases if you click the switch to seperate and then enable the pyros they'll blow immediately: the seperation code really needs rewriting.
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Moonwalker
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« Reply #69 on: January 13, 2006, 11:18:14 PM »

Quote
There's now a hacky implementation of the sequential systems logic switches and pyro arm switches.


Great Very Happy I'll do a CVS update in some minutes and try it out..



By the way, Tschachim,

I couldn't find any photo or drawing which shows the "off" flag of the FDAI's Confused Do you have a photo or drawing of it?
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Moonwalker
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« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2006, 07:49:53 AM »

Well, I commited the new instrument panel (325/326). Only the two cabin pressure relief levers are missing. I think we need a new switch class for them.

I also updated some panel graphics. And all LES window covers are commited too. Now it should be possible to simulate the LES "visible" when you look through the corresponding windows. I don't know how to do it. Maybe the LES window bitmaps could be implemented as switches which change to off after LES sep or so...

I desined the following window covers:

- left & right windows
- right rndz window (large view)
- right rndz window for the main panel

Now we need a new LES mesh too because the current mesh has absolutely no window. We need a mesh which shows the left rndz window and the side hatch window Wink

Only the off flag is still missing. All other stuff for the csm instrument panels should be done so far. If not, tell me Wink

I'll start with the LEM panels tomorrow... Very Happy
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Moonwalker
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« Reply #71 on: January 14, 2006, 07:55:53 AM »

Oh, Tschachim, I forgot to say that the direct O2 knob on panel 7 now has 4 positions Wink
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movieman
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« Reply #72 on: January 14, 2006, 01:58:21 PM »

I've added a basic pyro simulation and the first vestiges of sequential events controller simulation. It's only wired up for CM/SM seperation at the moment.
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Moonwalker
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« Reply #73 on: January 14, 2006, 02:53:31 PM »

Great Happy
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movieman
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« Reply #74 on: January 14, 2006, 05:01:59 PM »

The Panel SDK is now wired into the LEM, in preparation for working control panels... the config file only includes the batteries so far.

I'm pretty much going to stop working on the CSM now until we have a 7.0 release and just help get the LEM into working order.
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