3.15 Personal Accounts
Name: Maung San Lwin
Age: Not given
Sex: Male
Ethnicity: Not stated
Religion: Not stated
Address: Tamu, Tamu Township, Sagaing Division
Date of Interview: January 2001
Source: ThangJalun News
I, Maung San Lwin, lived in the central quarter of Tamu, and earned my living as a hill-side cultivator. On the evening of October 1 2000, I went to Nang-Pha –Long to pay my debt. When I arrived in Nang-Pha-Long, the Chief clerk of police, Sergeant Tin Myint arrested me, accusing me of being a wanted person. He took me to the Tamu police station, and searched everything on my body thoroughly, but found nothing which would make me guilty according the law. He then took the 47,000 kyat that I had brought to pay my debts with, and, being afraid of arrest, I had to give him all this money. Sgt. Tin Myint is also a broker for accused persons between the authorities and he has a habit of arresting and detaining people in order to bribe money from them. Others have suffered from this, like Daw Aye Kyi, an 80 year old woman who was detained for nine days in the Tamu police station. As she was poor, and was unable to pay the bribery fees, Sgt. Tin Myint forcefully took Daw Aye Kyi’s ornamental earrings and released her. The In-charge-of-police at the Tamu police station knows well about these things, but pretends not to know. These events show SPDC abuses of human-rights, even as SPDC has vowed around the world that the public of Burma has their human-rights in Burma.
Letters from a political prisoner
(Source: Not stated for security reasons)Undated Letter: We have a worse situation because a new officer arrived from Insein Prison in Rangoon and he forced me to remove the calendar which I had bought from the prison office [sold by prison staff for fundraising and forced families of prisoners to buy] from my wall. I am going to buy another calendar and make sure the officer in charge signs it [so it will not be removed]…You should try and stay out of [prison] and not be sent here because the situation is very difficult…I would rather stay on an island with my friends than in a small cell alone (After independence, in 1962, the political prisoners were sent to Coco island where they stayed together)
June 24, 2000: I am writing this letter in a difficult condition. We are only allowed one hour in the corridor to walk for exercise even though we didn’t do anything wrong. We feel very angry and we asked why, but we didn’t get any reply. One of the
newcomers wrote a letter to her family, but the authorities saw the letter and we were moved to a different hall (separate from each other). If ICRC visits we are not sure if we will be allowed to see them. I want you to contact ICRC about our current condition. The newcomer is not feeling well, but they refuse to let her have medical care. We had to use the criminal prisoners as go-betweens to pass her medicine. She was not allowed to have a family visit all day even though her family was waiting outside all day, they only allowed them in the next day. As for me, I didn’t complain to the authorities so they don’t treat me harshly. Although we stay separately, in late evening we talk to each other very secretly, even though the prison authorities are listening (in prison the are only allowed to converse with their cell-mates, not prisoners in other cells). So we don’t have the chance to speak freely. I want to write down my feelings, more than that, because of lack of paper and pen, I can only write a little. When ICRC visits I will explain everything to them. One of the prisoners is having pain in his nose, another one is having problems with his teeth. I miss my friends.August 1, 2000: xx: Don’t be depressed b/c I wrote your name second. I still remember you. I think you are not in Rangoon so I only put the other name. I am going to write very frankly. You also need to reply very frankly about the conditions outside. All of the news is useful to me…I also share your letters with other prisoners, they like because you mentioned them (prisoners recently transferred). We need to deal/bribe (give food, money, treat like friends, help them write essays for competitions, not oppose them or always ask for prisoner’s rights or they will not help them to communicate with their families or help them in other ways) with the prison staff to receive or send letters. If we do not deal with the staff their will be problems with them. So I explained this to the newcomers. I really respect your activities, but in prison we have to stay for a long time so sometimes we have to compromise. It doesn’t mean we have given up with the authorities, we are just dealing with the prison staff. I am a senior prisoner here, but the newcomers are older than me and they thought I am really soft, not really hard, and I didn’t participate a lot in human rights activities. But after reading you letters they better understood who I am. What’s the condition outside? So next time tell me more, including your opinion. When will the U.N. delegation arrive in Rangoon? The anniversary of the 88 uprising is very near, so the newcomers asked me to wear clothes that symbolize the event (color) during that time, but I don’t agree because things like that are not important, only what is in our mind is important. But I am not going to them this, I am going to pretend I don’t have the right clothes. One of the newcomers is having a lot of problems with the prison staff, consequently we have to suffer. I don’t want to talk about the inside condition anymore. Be careful in your activities. Write long letters to me.
October 1, 2000: I heard that xx went to Bangkok, did you contact him? Do you think he is o.k.? I heard that Aung San Suu Kyi was barred from traveling to Dala. The conditions in our prison are not good. We feel uncomfortable [because of Suu Kyi’s trip, rules were more strict for the political prisoners] I remember everyone. You
must be careful in your activities, ICRC has not come to our prison again. Next month (November) will be the first anniversary of their only visit. I want you to be in good health and to be happy and to be o.k. your finances.October 24, 2000:
I felt unhappy after reading your letter. I think about what will happen next. We do not know anything here in prison. Therefore we cannot analyze the political situation very well. I received clothes you sent. After my family visited, I received a lot of food (during visits, the staff have to record everything they received, how many, how much, what kind and record the conversations.) It is like Insein prison. In Insein we weren’t allowed to receive yellow clothes (regarded as the color of democracy) or NLD sarongs (Kachin style). I want to know about LS, did you hear about him? When you write next time write about the NLD news and news from RFA, BBC and VOA and news about our friends. Now I am getting thinner. So the head of the prison asked me why? What is the reason why I am getting thinner? This coming National Day, what will be the plan at Aung San Suu Kyi’s residence? I miss SL, when he was in Rangoon he wrote regularly. I want you to write frankly to him. We have some criminal prisoners who recently moved from Insein prison. Most of them have HIV, in the past 10 days 2 criminals passed away and the prison authorities are worried there will more like that so they give regular treatment. In our country, the spread of HIV is deteriorating, there is no proper treatment, the country is poor in every area. Although the authorities know the situation, they are saying that everything is o.k. I want to have a flower vase, and I want to read some novels, but its impossible. I want to see you.November 22, 2000: I am writing the same letter to both of you. In this letter I am enclosing your old letters (they are not allowed to keep paper in prison) According to our information, Aung San Suu Kyi will be released on the 20
th on November. I hope she has been released. And we heard about the ILO sanctions against the military regime. Next time write me a lot of details about everything. We have another newcomer. But this newcomer is not a political prisoner, only a government staff in prison for taking bribes. By now LS is in safe place and is staying there very freely and happily, no need to worry. Now I am teaching some prison staff, general knowledge, math and English. It doesn’t mean I am clever, only they are less educated than me. I need to train them for job promotions, for competitions and for writing essays. They don’t know how write essays so they ask us to do it. I request the other fellow political prisoners to write for them and the prison staff gave them some food in exchange. Their writing is very good but the prison staff don’t dare tell the authorities they are helping them. The cannot say there is any connections between the prisoners and staff. How are you? One of the newcomers is not very well. One of the doctor’s treated the newcomer. We hope ICRC will visit but they still haven’t come after one year. Is there any special news, (political situation). I hope you are happy in the New Year 2001. I wish to have democracy as soon as possible.February 26, 2001: I want to knit a telephone cover, which color do you prefer? As for me, I do not have enough time although I am in prison. I pay respect to Buddha and knit, do my rosary and meditate for a long time. If I think about outside, I feel so uncomfortable and sad. I sometimes hear about the situation of the NLD and the political situation, I don’t know if it is rumor or not, but I think it is true and I feel really unhappy as a human being. I’m really sad because the current situation is not good for the country. My family told me that one of my friends was also arrested. I want to grow flowers but it is not possible because the authorities will not allow me. I also want to have a cat because I love cats but it is also not possible to have pets.
Name: Soe Yal
Sex:: Male
Age: 29
Ethnicity: Karenni
Religion: Christian
Occupation: Farmer
Education: 5
th standardMarital Status: Married with 1 child
Address: Daw-Ta-Hay village, Loikhaw Township, Karenni State
Source: KNAHR
Date of arrival to refugee camp: January 10, 2001
Three days before they arrested me, they arrested two other Karenni men. Then they arrested 6 people from our village, 2 people from Wan-Ngaw village, 3 people from Nan-Son-Koye village, 1 person from Tee-Lone village, 2 people from War-Kine village, 2 people from Ye-Kan village and 3 people from Daw-Sae village. All 19 people were arrested by the SPDC under the accusation that we had contact with Karenni opposition organizations. The day of our arrest they had summoned us for a meeting. When we arrived to Nan-Sone village, they tied all of us with rope and took us to Loikhaw. We then spent three years in prison. All of the villagers from our hometowns knew that we had been unfairly arrested and imprisoned by the SPDC, yet they couldn’t do anything to help us.
We were all released from prison on August 22, 2000. I couldn’t go back to my village because while I was in prison, my wife and Hla Min, a prominent SPDC MI officer, were having an affair. When we were released from prison, the families of all my friends came to meet their sons and husbands, but for me, only my father came. He told me that I was unluckier than the other people and then he cried and went back home. I looked for my wife after my release from prison, but she wasn’t there, she had already run away with Hla-Min. When I arrived back in my village, one of my friends advised me that I shouldn’t stay there, and that I shouldn’t go to Loikhaw either. I then heard that in addition to Hla Min having an affair with my wife, he had also accused me again of having contact with Karenni opposition groups and was trying to have me arrested. So I stayed in my village for only 5 days, and then left to hide in Shan Sate. Things were not good for me in Shan State because I had no money to do business. I returned to my village once more during Christmas time, but the villagers told me not to stay, as the MI were always asking about me and looking for me. For this reason, I came to this Karenni camp.
After my arrest, I was tortured a lot. They sent me to MI 27 military unit in Loy Kaw 5 days after they arrested me. When I arrived at 27 military unit, they tortured and interrogated me for 3 days and 3 nights. When I couldn’t answer their questions about Karenni opposition groups they tortured me in many ways. While we were in prison, they put leg irons on us and during the day they took us outside to work. At night, the MI agents got drunk and tortured and interrogated us one by one. During the day they ordered us to work and at night they interrogated us. They put a plastic bag on my head and held it under water. They also beat us with their hands and with sticks. We had to do "Poun San" (various positions which prisoners are forced to sit or stand in at varying times) They ordered us to sit in the Motorbike "poun san" position and tortured us in various ways all night. Some people couldn’t stand the pain and lost consciousness.
One time, a villager from Tee-Lone lost consciousness but the MI continued to beat him. A friend of the MI agent stopped him and the villager didn’t die. After MI 27 military unit, they sent me to SPDC military unit No. 722, where I stayed for one month and then they sent me to Loi-Khaw prison.
We didn’t get enough food in prison. For the breakfast they cooked beans ("Pae-Bount-Say") regularly and for dinner they cooked Hin-Nu-Noul-Ywet. As a result of the prison food quota, I couldn’t imagine the day we would have enough food. The food they gave us was not fit for pigs, but we had to eat it in order to survive.
In prison, those who could pay were given easy jobs, other people who couldn’t pay had to do very hard jobs. They also got beaten more than other people and had to sleep in a very narrow place. We had to sleep 27 people in a 10 foot room. In summer, we couldn’t sleep, because there were a lot of people and it was very hot. If we wanted to take off our clothes to sleep because it was very hot, they didn’t allow us. In prison, there were no mosquito nets, blankets and pillows. We got thin blankets. In the cold season, it was very cold.
When we were in prison, there were about 580 prisoners and some of them were elderly. Ku-U-Yal, a political prisoner, was about 70 years old. Another one was older than him, over 80 years old. There were no children in prison because they sent them to children’s prisons.
Also in prison, the prisoners were tortured. If we couldn’t pay money to wardens, jailers and warders we had to work more and got beaten more than other prisoners. There was corruption at every level in prison. Also, they often came and took prisoners to be used as front line porters. They took at least 40 or 50 prisoners at a time. I didn’t see these prisoners return to prison. I don’t know where they went. I also saw them take prisoners to work in the prison authorities’ hill-side farms. Some of the jailers ordered the prisoners to labor in the villages’ hill side farms, doing things such as cutting, threshing and winnowing paddy.
Our rights were not respected in prison. In March 2000, the ICRC came and met us face and face. We reported to them about the inside of the prison. One of the foreigners from ICRC met with me face to face. Even though he was a foreigner he could speak Burmese. Before he went back, he gave me an ICRC card, but the jailers took it from me after ICRC left. When ICRC came, the jailers told us to lie and say we got enough food, had good bathing conditions and good places to stay. They told us to say everything was good. They told us that if we told the ICRC the truth they would beat us and increase our time in prison. In reality, if we wanted to bathe freely we had to pay 300 kyat a month to the jailers. People who have money can use alcohol and drugs like "Ya-Ma" in prison.
I want to say that even though we were all prisoners, some were chosen to be the leaders. None of those chosen to be leaders were Karenni. The jailers only made Burmese people the leaders. Out of 580 prisoners, 100 of them were Karenni.
There was one problem between jailers and prisoners. That was a problem with rice. When the prisoners told the jailers that they didn’t get enough food, they were beaten by the jailers. In reality, every prisoner got 25 "Aung san" of rice per meal, and the jailers sold the rest. If prisoners wanted to eat more rice, we had to pay 400 kyat a month to the leaders (who were also prisoners). If we couldn’t pay the money, they gave us the quota of one spoonful of rice. If we paid, they gave us two spoonfuls. In prison, there were many kinds of corruption.
When we were not in good health in prison, we had to get our own medicine. In prison there was a prisoner doctor. Even if we were not sick, and the jailers ordered us to buy medicine, we had to do it. The warders sold the "BPI" medicine which they had received from the authorities and substituted it with (cheap) medicine made from China. The things we had to face in prison were numerous. If we talk about all of them, we will never finish.
My life has been very bad. I was arrested by SPDC unfairly and imprisoned. In addition, my wife was stolen by MI. Since I have been released from prison I have had to live in fear. I am afraid to live in my village, and couldn’t return, and everywhere I wanted to go I was in fear of the MI and my wife. I am afraid that if I take my child, they will arrest my parents. Now, in my mind, I don’t know what to do.
Name: "Than Aung"
Sex: Male
Age: 28
Ethnicity: Burman
Religion: Buddhist
Occupation: Day Labourer
Marital Status: Married, two children, ages 1 and 3 years old
Address: xxxx section, Pegu town, Pegu Division
Date of Interview: July 2000
Source: KHRG
[He had been a prisoner in Lashio Prison in Shan State. He was interviewed after escaping from portering in Dooplaya District.]
Q: Do you have brothers and sisters?
A: I have three siblings. I am the middle one. I have one elder sister, who
is 31 years old. She is already married. I also have a younger brother, who is
25 years old. At present, he is studying in school.
Q: What did you do when you were a child?
A: I started studying in kindergarten when I was five years old. I passed
kindergarten but failed one year when I was in 1
Q: What did you do after you were fifteen?
A: At first I stayed with my parents, and then I worked with my friends at
any job we could find like masonry or cutting grass. When people sold things, I
also sold things. When I was 20 years old, I got married and had two children. A
friend told me there was a good job in Lashio and he called me to come there, so
I went to xxxx in Mong Hsat [township]. My wife stayed with my parents.
Q: Why have you come here?
A: I was portering for an Army unit.
Q: Are you an ordinary civilian or what was the reason
you were portering for the Army?
A: I had gone from Pegu up to Mong Hsat township near Lashio. I picked tea
leaves and baked charcoal there at xxxx village. After I baked charcoal, I cut
bamboo. One day, in the evening, I went to sit in the teashop with my friend.
While I was sitting, the police who were patrolling said that the time was up
[to be out on the streets]. When I turned around, I didn’t see my friend, he
had run away and fled when he saw the police patrol come. I alone was arrested.
The offence when the police arrested me was hiding in the dark [being out after
curfew]. When they arrested me, they asked me, "Where are you from?" I
told them I was from xxxx. They asked me what time it was. I told them it was
still very early, but they didn’t agree. They punched me and asked me,
"Why are you still out now?" I explained to them I was leaving the
teashop, but they didn’t believe me. They punched me there on the road and
took me to xxxx jail.
Q: What was the offence they charged you with?
A: They charged me with hiding in the dark, Article 42. It was past 9 o’clock
at night and they had declared no one was allowed out after 9 p.m. I was
arrested on March 24
Q: Did they sentence you after that?
A: Yes, they passed the judgment in Lashio District Court. I was sentenced
to more than one year at Lashio Prison. I was put in the prison on March 27
Q: What happened when you first entered the prison?
A: When we entered we had to sit and we couldn’t look up at their faces.
If we looked up at them, they would beat and punch us. The first time I looked
up, one of them kicked me in the jaw with his leg one time. When I got to the
cell, the one who waited at the door kicked me in. He wasn’t a jailer, he was
a prisoner who waits at the door.
Q: How did your day begin in the prison?
A: In the morning when we woke up and had finished washing our faces, we had
to wipe the floors. After that I had to choose the rice [sifting the rice and
picking out the husks]. In the evening we had to move all the old excrement from
the toilets and put it on the plantation.
Q: What did they feed you in the prison?
A: When we arrived at Lashio Prison they fed us enough rice. They fed us
bean curry and fish paste. In the evening we were fed Ta Ler Baw curry [boiled
rice mixed with any vegetable on hand] and uncooked fishpaste. We got enough
drinking water.
Q: How many times did they let you bathe?
A: They let us bathe only one time [each day]. They gave us only 7 bowls of
water to use for our bath.
Q: Did people get sick in the prison?
A: There were sick people, but they didn’t treat them. They gave them only
one or two tablets [of medicine]. When the prison officials thought they couldn’t
work anymore, they were sent to the Lashio hospital. When they were sent to
Lashio hospital their feet were shackled. They were also shackled to the bed in
the hospital, they couldn’t move.
Q: What was the most common disease in the prison?
A: Most of the diseases were from drugs or itching [scabies]. I saw only
these. Some people had very big wounds. I saw only one man die because he had diarrhea.
Q: Are there women in the prison?
A: There is a different building for the women. There are about 300 women
prisoners. Most of them were drug offences.
Q: How many prisoners are there in Lashio Prison?
A: I estimate there are over 8,000 prisoners [there are actually between
1,800 and 2,400 prisoners, according to other testimonies]. There were over 300
prisoners in our building.
Q: What offences are most common in the prison?
A: Drug offences are the most common.
Q: Did the ICRC [International Committee for the Red
Cross] come to ask questions in Lashio Prison?
A: They didn’t come [they had already made their inspection].
Q: Were there any political prisoners in Lashio Prison?
A: I didn’t see them.
Q: How long did you stay in Lashio Prison?
A: I came here in May, so it was only over one month……..
( HRDU note: For the end of the interview regarding "Than Aung’s" experiences as a prison porter please refer to the chapter on forced labor)
Name: "Hla Shwe"
Sex: Male
Age: 26
Ethnicity: Burman
Religion: Buddhist
Occupation: Construction Worker
Marital Status: Single
Address: Mandalay city Date of Interview: July 2000
Source: KHRG
[He was in Lashio Prison and escaped while portering in Dooplaya District.]
Q: What is your education level?
A: I finished 9
Q: Are your parents still alive?
A: My father is still alive, but my mother is dead. My father is a gold and
silversmith.
Q: How many siblings do you have?
A: We are three siblings. I am the middle one. The eldest is my sister. My
younger sister is 24 years old. They are both selling goods in a shop house.
Q: What did you do when you were young?
A: Since I was 12 years old, I was growing roses and taking care of my life.
In 1984 I was getting 60 kyat per day and staying with a teacher. It was in
Mandalay Industrial New Town. I stayed there and sometimes I sent money to my
grandmother. I had finished school. When I was 15 years old I had passed 8th
Standard. I was working in the industry business and then I went up to xxxx. I
stayed there for five or six years. I went to do industry business there. I didn’t
do it alone, I did it with my friends.
Q: Why were you arrested to become a porter?
A: I was not arrested to be a porter. I was imprisoned because of an
offence. It was Article 363, not agreeing with the parents.
Q: Did you rape someone?
A: No, I didn’t rape anyone. I eloped with my wife. She was from xxxx
town. She is Shan and over 16 years old.
Q: How did it happen?
A: Nobody knew that I was in love with that girl. Then I eloped with her. My
friend went to tell her mother and stepfather to make a wedding for us, but when
they knew we were there, they came to arrest us. Her parents accused me. I was
not so friendly with the village secretary, so the chairman was called and they
interrogated him. My weak point is a good point for him [the village secretary
didn’t like him so he arranged it so he would go to prison].
Q: When were you arrested?
A: On February 25
Q: Which court did they try you in?
A: xxxx township court of law. The judge’s name was xxxxx.
Q: How many years was your sentence?
A: Three years. I was sent to prison on April 20
Q: Did you know the ICRC came to Lashio Prison?
A: I didn’t know that.
Q: Where did you stay at that time?
A: I was staying in the jail cell in yyyy jail. I hadn’t arrived at the
prison yet. I arrived at the prison at the end of April. I was there for one
month.
Q: How many prisoners are in the prison?
A: There were over 1,000 prisoners in the prison.
Q: The other prisoners said there were 7,000 or 8,000
prisoners?
A: They are telling a lie. You can estimate it. There were 320 prisoners in
each room and there are only 4 buildings. There are four buildings in Lashio
Prison. There are eight rooms. You can estimate it using 300 prisoners per room
and there would be about 1,800 prisoners [sic; 2,400].
Q: How many prisoners were in one room?
A: In Lashio they kept 50 prisoners in one room. It was about 20 feet all
around. In the big room they kept 204 prisoners and some times 220 prisoners.
There was also a separate extension room and they kept 70 prisoners there. If I
make an estimate for the whole room, there was more than 300 prisoners. In my
building there were over 200 people. [His building had two rooms and an
extension built on which served as a third room.]
Q: How many women were there?
A: I didn’t go to see them.
Q: Did they have a hospital in the prison?
A: They didn’t have a hospital, they only had a clinic.
Q: Was there a place for children?
A: No, there wasn’t.
Q: How many people did they keep in one cell?
A: They kept two people in one cell [these are the single or double cells
normally reserved for political prisoners]. Some are imprisoned forever and some
are politicians. I don’t know about them exactly, but there was one
politician.
Q: There were political prisoners in Lashio Prison?
A: I met only one, but I don’t know his name. He was sentenced to seven
years. He was about 50 years old [see interview #4; another prisoner says this
man is not really a political prisoner, but was arrested for making fake
National ID cards in Shan State]. He had been in prison for over a year. I saw
him. When I got sick, he gave me medicine. He was able to deal with the warden.
Q: Was the warden kind?
A: He was kind. He was the big warden, but I forgot his name.
Q: Explain to me how you lived in prison.
A: When we first arrived in the prison we had to wipe the floor. It was one
hundred feet around. We had to wipe it going and coming 20 times. After we
finished wiping, they gave us a chance to rest outside. They forced us to wipe
for three or four days. Then they chose people whom they forced to carry Main
La, we had to carry it. It is the excrement pot. Some people had to carry the
excrement pot 14 or 15 times. Some people only carried it two times. When we
carried the excrement pots, they gave us cheroots. Some people exchanged their
cheroots for curry to eat. Some people collected the cheroots and sold them.
Then they found things to get to cook curry.
Q: Was there other work?
A: The other work was agriculture.
Q: Did they give you a chance to exercise and read?
A: They did. For me, when I had finished working, I sometimes played
caneball. I didn’t know where to find a book.
Q: How about taking a bath?
A: They gave eight cups of water for one day, every day.
Q: Did they give enough medicine to the sick people?
A: They didn’t give enough. They broke off half a tablet of medicine and
said, "You are sick. Take it."
Q: Did that medicine cure the disease?
A: No, it didn’t.
Q: Where did they send the people who had serious
diseases?
A: The people in bad condition were sent to hospital. Some died. After I
arrived at the prison two people died. Two people died in one month.
Q: What was the most common disease that people died
from?
A: Diarrhea. Some people who smoke opium get diarrhea. Most of the
diseases are abscess, scabies, ringworm and people who get diarrhea from
smoking opium. Those people stayed at the hospital for two or three days and
then usually they died. This was because the people knew that using it was bad,
but they kept doing it.
Q: Why do the people who don’t smoke get scabies?
A: The mosquitoes, lice, and many kinds of insects bite these people and
they scratched and then the disease spread. They scratched and sometimes the
skin was bruised. Slowly by slowly it became worse and they didn’t have
medicine. Some people who had abscesses on their buttocks, cut them with a knife
and put torn pieces of cloth inside and then took the pieces of cloth out. They
then put another torn piece of cloth in and then took it out. Then they closed
it with a plaster and treated it.
Q: Who treated them?
A: The people from the medical room.
Q: Were you able to sleep well?
A: I couldn’t sleep well. The people who had money, they could sleep well.
The people who didn’t have money, they had to sleep one on top of each other.
We had to bend slowly and sleep. We had to put our legs on each other and sleep.
They didn’t have beds.
Q: How many people could sleep in a four cubits space? [1
cubit = 1.5 feet / ½ meter]
A: If it was a four or five cubits space we would have died. We can’t.
There are many diseases. Sometimes they beat people and ordered them to sleep.
For example, four people could sleep in a place, but eight people had to sleep
there. If we didn’t sleep, they beat us.
Q: Did they feed you enough food?
A: They didn’t feed us cooking oil. We had to eat Ta Ler Baw [rice soup
with a few vegetables in it] every day.
Q: Who did they plant the vegetables for?
A: It was for the prisoners.
Q: Could the prisoners eat them?
A: Yes, we ate them, but we didn’t get enough. There was a lot of water in
the curry.
Q: How did you feel when you were in the prison?
A: When I stayed at the prison, I looked at the brick buildings every day
and thought about when I would leave those brick buildings. On this day I met
those brick buildings and on the next day I also met those brick buildings.
Sometimes I felt in my heart that I wanted to cross over [the wall] and run from
those brick buildings. I felt that until I didn’t want to stay anymore.
Name: James Mawdsley
Sex: Male
Ethicity: Anglo-Saxon
Date of Interview: October 22, 2000
Source: DVB
Q: Why do you think the military finally let you free?
A: Certainly because of the buildup of pressure from the international
community putting more and more attention on the junta. They had broken the
international law so many times on separate points. They had no right to keep me
there. This is the case with thousands of prisoners in Burma. They are innocent
men and women and there is no reason for them being in prison except that the
junta wish to oppress. But unfortunately for the Burmese there is not the
international attention. For me they eventually became so afraid and ashamed of
all the buildup that they thought, "we have to get rid of him."
Basically from the beginning they didn’t want to keep me in prison, but they wanted to save face; they wanted to show their strength.
Q: Can you tell me which laws you are talking about?
A: I came in with a one-day pass with a visa. My passport was stamped, so I
went in legally. The consular staff confirmed that. They saw my passport and
said that I was here legally. But they gave me five years on an immigration
charge for which there is no provision at all for a prison sentence. The maximum
recommendation is deportation. They said I had broken the conditions of
immigration. The maximum they could give me was deportation, but in fact they
gave me five years. And even that law shouldn’t have applied at all because I
distributed my letters and was prosecuted under the Printing and Publishing Act.
Then they added the immigration charge by saying that I had broken the law and
that is illegal. So they charged me twice on the same issue. That in itself is
wrong. And as for the seven years for the Printing and Publishing Act, I was at
no stage allowed to refer to the content of what I had distributed, and there is
provision for distributing religious or social material. I don’t care because
what I wrote was, "this regime is corrupt and we need to re-open
universities, release political prisoners, and the SPDC should have dialogue
with the NLD." I said that straight and I don’t consider that to be
anti-government. I consider that to be pro-truth. It needs to be done. And apart
from anything else, the SPDC is not the government; the NLD is government.
Q: During the last years that you were in prison you
tried to fight legally with the charges that they had imposed on you?
A: When I got there, I was saying for four months that I am not even going
to bother with the appeal because I have no faith in the judicial system because
it is so corrupt. That was proven by them not even admitting the appeal. They
dismissed it even though U Kyi Min, my lawyer, proved that they had broken their
own law. They are absolutely obliged to hear that appeal. The whole legal
approach was basically just to highlight the corruption, and I knew that I would
get out through international pressure and nothing to do with the legal system.
Part of the pressure was showing how corrupt the legal system was.
Q: Recently we heard that you have been badly beaten by
the prison guards. Can you tell us a bit about that?
A: One thing I understand about Burma is that everyone is afraid with very
good reason. When I was in Insein prison I understood perfectly the fear. I was devastated
by fear in Insein prison. Fortunately after two months I got my feet
back and was no longer afraid. But I understand that when someone is given the
order to give someone a beating, it is not easy to outright argue with that. So,
the guards and prisoners who carried it through, some of them were reluctant,
some of them weren’t and went ahead with great enthusiasm. It was severe
beating, but I know that the Burmese people that I have met have had far worse
treatment that has gone on for weeks and weeks with torture and real abuse. I am
aware that the conditions that I was kept in was much better than so many
prisoners in Burma, so I have no right to complain. In my heart I had to recognize
how lucky I was. Even with the beating I recognized that for a Burmese
it would have been so much worse.
Q: Why did they do that?
A: I spent a whole year in prison protesting; I didn’t stop. They were
finding it impossible to contain me because they don’t know how to sit down
and listen to someone. The regime as you know and everybody in Burma knows, will
not listen to anyone. The solution is always to come back with violence. And by
coming back with violence they can, for the meantime, think they are in control
in the country. But they are not; they are just building up a problem that is
going to explode. With me, they avoided the violence as long as they could
because they were scared of the international response. But at the end of the
day they didn’t know what to do. They thought they could shut me up like that.
But even after three days, I was still saying that I was going to continue. Then
they said, " we’re sorry; we’re not going to do it again. What is your
point? What do you want to say? We will take it to the higher authorities."
They were probably lying. They made a mistake by drawing so much attention to
themselves on their brutality
Q: We also heard that last December that you had a hunger
strike demanding to release Min Ko Naing. Can you tell us a bit about this?
A: The first time was the 7 day hunger strike and in March and April there
was a 20 day hunger stike. One day for each day of Min Ko Naing’s 20 year
sentence. Basically throughout my involvement with Burma, I have been so
inspired by the courage of those I met, and those I haven’t met, but only read
and heard about. I just know that I am not suffering out there and that there
are people in far worse conditions. I believe Min Ko Naing keeps strong in
prison. I have heard of his resistance.
I don’t want the outside world to say, "look here is a white man who spent one year in prison." Min Ko Naing has done more than 11 years in solitary, and there were 6 men in Keng Tung prison who were there for life. That means until they die, not 25 years. I want to bring the attention of the West to this; to shake them up and say, "what are you doing in England or America that is as important as the injustice happening in Burma?"
Min Ko Naing is a huge inspiration to me.
Q: Can you tell me briefly about your daily life in
prison?
A: To try to keep a routine. To do a lot of exercise in the morning. I was
lucky enough, due to British and Australian Consular staff, to have a bible in
my cell. Later I was able to get quite a few books. To be able to read and to
pray. I got a book from the authorities on the Mingla Suit; the 38 points of the
Mingla Suit. It is brilliant; it is truth. It sounds foolish to say, but if only
people respect the truth of Buddhism because the regime chokes out so much
propaganda. They want to give the impression they are Buddhist, but they are
not; they are evil. Buddhism is so true. I am a Christian, but I see them both
as paths to the truth. So, in my cell it would basically pray, exercise, and
read.
Q: Were you able to meet other prisoners?
A: Not really, but there were of course a lot of people guarding me because
the regime are so paranoid and stupid. They could have had one guard outside my
cell, but there were up to 12 at the time, and I am sure the guards were there
to watch each other rather than watch me. Some of them helped me just by a smile.
It was good to get to know some of these prisoners and guards over the year, and
they kept me alive.
You, the DVB, are broadcasting to Keng Tung prison. Please give the message to the prisoners and guards, who might not even know they were helping me, that just a kind word or a kind smile meant the world to me. Burma means the world to me, and I don’t want to be a stupid white guy charging in and who doesn’t understand the problems. When Burmese people treat me with kindness......
Q: We will definately convey the message. Why are you
risking your life for Burma?
A: I believe that I will live. I believe I can do more alive than dead, and
I am very very careful. I know what the outside people think, "he is crazy;
he is taking big risks," but I am extremely careful about what I do.
On my journey from Thailand to Moulmein I had the best help in the world from the KNU and other people who helped get me to Moulmein. I could trust them absolutely. There is no way they would allow harm to come to me. They are the funniest soldiers I ever met; they are brilliant, and I could trust them and the members of the ABSDF, who have helped me in tight spots and the KNPP. So I don’t really fear for my life, but the reason I am committed to Burma is two reasons.
One is the inspiration of Daw Aung San Suu Kyi who I think the whole world should value for what she is teaching us and showing us.
The other is individuals that I have met first of all on the Burma-Thai border, but also elsewhere in Burma. They are dedicating their lives. I have seen the injuries they have from bullets. I have seen the dead bodies and the dying bodies. These people that the world is not hearing about, who with such amazing courage and dedication, obviously to their own country, are far more important to me, or far more of an inspiration to me, than when I look around London or England. In this country we are missing the point. The freedom and truth is everything, and it is worth all of your dedication. From what I have learnt in Burma, I would even now like to help my own country to focus on the essentials of life, which is to fight for your dignity and truth. The Burmese have taught me and helped me far more than I have done for Burma.
Q: Yesterday during the press conference you charged the
regime for committing genocide. Can you tell a little more about it?
A: Saying genocide is not an exaggeration; it is not just throwing around a
word. What is happening in Burma is genocide. There is a legal definition, and
there are five criteria. Any one of these criteria prove genocide. What is
happening in Burma satisfies three of these criteria. I would prefer if you talk
to someone like Lord Alton of the Jubilee Campaign who understands far more than
I about international law. But they have shown me proof that I cannot repeat
now; legal arguments. What is happening is genocide, and of course the Western
governments are reluctant to admit that, because then they must act or else they
have no moral authority in our country. We will say to them, "what is the
point of admitting this is genocide if you will not take international strong
action?" If we can push our government to admit the truth, and to look at
the facts that this is genocide. Our country is changing too, and we need to
shape them up. Lets tell the British people to obey the facts and take
consequences for those facts, which means we have a duty to use force on the
SPDC because they are breaking international law, and for me, more importantly,
they are breaking every moral law and God’s law. What they are doing is
wicked, and the way to stop that is through legal means; possibly through the
UN. Preferably, the SPDC will disappear and the NLD and CRPP are established as
governments in Burma
Q: Upon your release, did you have to sign any paper that
you are not going back to Burma?
A: Not at all. They wanted me to sign something, but there was no way that I
would sign anything for the whole 416 days I was there. I refused to sign
anything even just the list of inventory. I said, " Look you are not the
government. " On my first day of arrest during the interrogation, I said,
" You do not represent the government. You are illegal,
anti-constitutional, terrorist thugs. You are wicked, and I am not going to sign
anything. I am not even going to answer your questions. The NLD is government,
and I will answer questions from a representative of them or a judge or a
policeman appointed by them in the court." When they asked me if I was guilty
or not, I said " you are not a judge and this is not a court, and I
will not recognize the SPDC’s authority because they are anti-constitutional.
I will recognized the NLD. " I said that in court clearly three times. On
the court record they wrote down that I pleaded guilty and understood the
charges. They lied so much, they broke their own law. They said I pleaded guilty
to three charges. They only leveled two charges in the court room and then
added on my previous sentence later.
I would sign nothing, and I would never bow the knee to that regime. After two months in Insein prison I basically got a big help from God. I will never bow the knee to the junta, I will never recognize them because they are not the government. They are an army; they have no legal, moral or constitutional authority. A representative of the junta said to me at Rangoon airport, when I was handed over to my Ambassadors, " will you sign this paper?" I said "no, " and he said, "are you willing to go back to Keng Tung?" I said, " yes, I will do another year. Send on the next plane back to prison. I am not signing your paper." The Ambassadors did great work to make sure they could not argue with that.
Q: So they were trying up to the last minute to make you
sign something?
A: I think eventually the Ambassadors signed it saying that Mawdsley has
read this document. They wanted us to say that I had understood it, but I don’t
understand their lies. They could have sent me back to prison, and I wouldn’t
care. I wasn’t going to sign.
Q: After being in prison for more than 400 days, did you
hear any news about yourself being in prison or about the people demonstrating
outside?
A: Obviously I don’t want to make life difficult for anyone there now, but
I did get messages from DVB and BBC, and it gave me great encouragement. I love
Burma. A lot of people in Europe don’t understand why I did it. I think most
people in Burma understand perfectly, because we all know how unjust and
oppressive the regime is, and there has to be protest against it. When a Burmese
person protests, and they do, they are in for a terrible time. But when a
Westerner protests, we has so much protection, and live in much better
conditions for the very short time we are in prison compared to what the Burmese
go through. So, when I get messages about what the DVB and the BBC are
reporting, that makes me very happy.
Q: Are you going back to Burma again?
A: I will never drop this cause before Burma has democracy, and I don’t
see how I can stay away from Burma once it has democracy. Then I will be over
very soon. I don’t know what will happen if I go back to Burma or not. I don’t
think there is any need for me to go back to prison; I don’t think that will
be helpful. The main reason I went was that I wanted to understand why and how
the junta is doing what it is doing. How can such an evil organization exist?
It comes about to untruth; people who say there is no fighting in Burma. I have
walked through the Karen and Karenni states and I have seen bullets going over
my head, grenades exploding, people shot and killed. I know there is fighting
and hundred thousands of displaced people and refugees, and yet the regime is
saying there is no fighting. If everyone rejected their lies solely for the
truth they couldn’t exist, because people at lower ranks are willing to accept
their lies and repeat them. But the reason they do that is because of fear. Even
people in the West do the same because in my country we are afraid to loose our
material advantage; afraid to loose our wealth; afraid to loose our safety.
Therefore, we make the lie that the Burmese people have made their problem and it is their job to sort it out. That is a lie. The whole world has made that problem because the whole world supplies the junta with fighter planes, automatic weapons, and with internet technology for communication and satellite phones. So, the junta has this massive technological advantage over the people, so they can crack down with real brutality. The world has a duty to sort out this problem, and yet we in my country tell the lie that it is not our problem because we are afraid, not of violence, but of loosing our comfort. So, it requires every single person in every country to try their best to stick to the truth and to give as much as they can. Although we face different penalties for our stands, I don’t want to die, so I am not going to fight till the death without being sensible about what is the best approach. If you die you die, but be sensible about what you can do.
There were people in the prison, the ABSDF, KNPP and KNU members, that are standing up for truth, and they are saying the truth. That is what you do at the DVB- giving the truth back into Burma in your own way. It is so important to be as truthful as you can in the reports. This is what will change the whole situation in Burma - the VOA, DVB, RFA, and the BBC. If they can broadcast the truth of the situation it will bring massive change. Most of all police officers, prison officers and soldiers need to start living truthfully and should be saying, "my orders are illegal, immoral and unjust, and I will not carry them out even if it means no more promotion for me; even if it means I will loose my job; even if it means I will go to prison, I am not going to obey these orders. I want to obey the Lord Buddha, because if we obey him things will be fine." But you can only do that as an individual. I can’t complain that the world has problems, I can only deal with the problems that I have inside me. One year in solitary confinement is a good way for me to try to make myself a little bit more humble and a bit less greedy.
Q: Do you have any plans of suing the Burmese
government?
A: Really I can’t speak about the future. The pressure for change in Burma
must be relentless and increasing, and I will be part of that.