TRICKLE-L: 199701XX
is the compilation of discussion during Jan 97
via AB4EL Web Digests @ SunSITE
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Wed Jan 1 15:55 EST 1997
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 14:38:16 -0600
Message-Id: <199701012038.AA09411@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 693
Contents:
Re: Root vs Water distribution? (blsanden@ucdavis.edu (Blake Sanden))
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 12:27:12 +0100
From: blsanden@ucdavis.edu (Blake Sanden)
Subject: Re: Root vs Water distribution?
Happy New Year, Tricklers!!
I have measured soil water depletion rates in pistachios and almonds that
were 2 to 3 times potential ET (ie. Kc = 2 to 3) in a given cubic foot of
soil. The next cubic foot deeper or on the opposite side of the hose at
the same horizontal distance from the emitter woul have a Kc of 0.8 to 1.2.
Water contents did not appear substantially different. This was
determined by installing neutron probe access tubes in a transect
perpendicular to drip and microsprinkler hose lines that run down the tree
row. Soils were a fairly uniform Panoche clay loam and a Twissleman silt
loam in different sites. THE POINT is that roots have a mind of their own
-- especially in trees!!
(Sorry folks, this data has not yet been published as it was squeezed in
between the duties of managing irrigation for 26,000 acres of trees several
years ago before I started work with UC Extension. Maybe some day ...)
The subsequent variability in root length density and consequent water
uptake can easily exceed the variability in our instrument error, water
holding capacity and irrigation uniformity. I have not documented this in
field and vegetable crops in intense profiles but all of us have seen
tremendous variability in water uptake from individual neutron probe sites
in replicated plots when the final yields are pretty uniform.
Most of us coming from an engineering perspective focus on the hardware and
soils, but those plants, just like people, are the wildcard in the
equation. Any New Year's Resolutions? How about mobile stem flow gauges
that you can plunk from plant to plant as quick as you can take 16 second
neutron probe readings?
Blake Sanden
Irrigation Management & Agronomy Farm Advisor, Kern County
1031 S Mt Vernon Ave
Bakersfield, CA 92307
805-868-6218
blsanden@ucdavis.edu
>I have read with much interest the discussion of a need for water uniformity
>in the root zone, but can't the roots do some catching up if the
>distribution is lacking?
>
>Has anyone seen research on the optimal point between the dynamics of water
>delivery and root growth? It would no doubt vary with different crops and
>could greatly impact the level of investment required for an irrigation
>system. No point in redoing what Nature already does better.
>
>M. G.
>Marty Grogan, BSAE, MSEE
>Grogan Engineering Services
>1328 Rathwood Ave.
>Richland, WA 99352
>(509)627-3083 (voice and FAX)
>ges@oneworld.owt.com
>
>Specializing in Systems Integration Services for Agriculture: Automation,
>Telemetry, Programming, Maintenance, Remote Sensing and Project Delivery.
>
> GES--The technology buckstopper.
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Fri Jan 3 13:53 EST 1997
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:56:15 -0600
Message-Id: <199701031856.AA01860@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 694
Contents:
Re: Psychology of buried tape ("Colin Austin" <caustin@cohort.com.au>)
Re: Minute/ultra-low microirrigation (nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman))
Re: Welcome to Trickle-L !! (nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman))
Re: Root vs Water distribution? (Jochen.Eberhard@t-online.de (Jochen Eberhard))
Re: Psychology of buried tape (Jochen.Eberhard@t-online.de (Jochen Eberhard))
Re: Root vs Water distribution? (Irrometer@aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 09:11:01 +1000
From: "Colin Austin" <caustin@cohort.com.au>
Subject: Re: Psychology of buried tape
Hello Randall,
I think your observations are quite important. The Aerogation
system combines SDI with computer control and monitoring, to help
alleviate this problem. Our computer control is constantly
monitoring the system, and will "show" the users on the computer
screen when different areas are being irrigated. Although this is
not physically "seeing" the irrigation working, it at least helps
the user to accept that the system is working.
We also have a facility to alert the user if the system isn't
working. How you might ask? There are a number of factors in this,
such as flow rates in the pipes, and also the moisture content of
the soil. If we've just scheduled an irrigation, and the moisture
content doesn't change, then there's obviously something wrong
somewhere.
Regards,
Colin Austin
On 26 Dec 96 at 17:35, Merriott@aol.com wrote:
> I mentioned earlier that I want to let the customer "see" that his
> system is working.
>
> I asked about how to determine DU for a buried system, but I really
> asked the wrong question. What I am really trying to get at, and
> probably didn't communicate well, is that one constraint that keeps
> some people from adopting SDI is the fact that it is buried; you
> can't see it. That is one thing that may be keeping this technology
> from being adopted more quickly.
> Microsprinklers took off like hotcakes in Florida in the 80's. I
> think one
> reason was that it was easy to see (and hear) them. There are even
> some people who won't run their lawn sprinklers before dawn even
> though it's more efficient, because they want to see the system run.
> We need to come up with some ways to let people "see" their (and
> their neighbor's) system running, just to make people
> psychologically more comfortable with the technology.
>
> One of my favorite books is "Diffusion of Innovations" by Everett
> Rogers which was used in a Technology Transfer class I took in
> school. I know all the extension types probably have heard all this
> stuff before, but in the book there are listed five characteristics
> of innovations that affect their rate of adoption:
>
> 1) Relative advantage - the degree to which an innovation is
> "perceived" as better than the idea it supersedes. I think SDI has
> many advantages over other methods of irrigation, but let's not
> forget these other characteristics.
>
> 2) Compatibility - the degree to which an innovation is "perceived"
> as being consistent with the existing values, past experiences, and
> needs of potential adopters. Most peoples' past experiences with
> irrigation includes "seeing" the water actually being applied.
>
> 3) Complexity - the degree to which an innovation is "perceived" as
> difficult to understand and use. I think we can all agree that we
> have some work to do in this area.
>
> 4) Trialability - the degree to which an innovation may be
> experimented with on a limited basis. This is one advantage of SDI.
>
> 5) Observability - the degree to which the results of an innovation
> are visible to others. Long term results are easy to see. Better
> yields, etc.
> Short term - how do you "see" that the system is actually watering
> the crop? How do you "see" if the system is stopping up?
>
> Randall Merriott
> Abernathy, Texas
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------
Cohort International
7 Belfast Road, Ph: +61 3 9761 9922
Montrose, Vic, 3765 Fax: +61 3 9761 9944
Australia Email: caustin@cohort.com.au
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:14:39 -0800 (PST)
From: nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman)
Subject: Re: Minute/ultra-low microirrigation
Wow!! I just finally took a few minutes to read your e-mail on
minute/ultra-low microirrigation. I do not have a commercial operation,
but I find it to be an exciting concept nontheless. As I read through the
message, I thought about how this type of system would fine-tune the water
delivery to my residential landscape -- and how cost-effective it might be.
At this point, I am invested in in-line drip emitters (made by Drip-in),
and am quite satisfied with their performance. However, in our water-poor
region (San Diego, CA), I am constantly adjusting and readjusting the
irrigation schedule to optimize water delivery while minimizing water use.
I've always imagined a system that would be self-regulating and deliver
only the amount of water that was needed to a particular plant. I
wonder.... I can see how such a system would work in a monoculture --
could it be adapted to a situation where there are plants with differing
water needs, such as you find in residential landscaping? It could
potentially revolutionize landscape design if you could mix plants of
radically different water needs into the same planting bed...
Hmmm....
Nan Sterman
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
Nan Sterman Design For Learning
nsterman@ucsd.edu 205 Cole Ranch Road
619 634-2902 Olivenhain, CA 92024
619 634-2957 (fax)
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:14:41 -0800 (PST)
From: nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman)
Subject: Re: Welcome to Trickle-L !!
Hello Trickle-l'ers!
>1) Briefly, what is your affiliation with trickle/drip irrigation?
I am NOT a professional, nor a commercial operation. I am a home gardener
with a large lot and 11+ years of experience with drip irrigation in a
residential landscape.
>2) What crops or plants do you use drip irrigation on?
Vegetables (raised bed), ornamental herbaceous plants, fruit trees, drought
tolerant plants....everything except the lawn.
>3) If using subsurface drip irrigation, what is the average depth of
>placement of the drip lateral?
Right on the surface or just below mulch
>4) What problems have you encountered with drip irrigation?
I worry sometimes that I am letting my system run for too long.... it's
hard to know how long is too long....
>5) Fertigation is a real advantage of drip irrigation. What form of N, P and
>K have you been trying and to what success?
I'm just about to try this with my newly installed (and still being
installed) drip system. I would love suggestions for products that others
have found success with, and products that are good for vegetables vs
ornamentals, fruit, etc.
>6) Have you experienced a reduction in fertilizer and/or water use?
Certainly, from the first time I installed a system more than 10 years ago.
>7) Do you have water quality problems? If so, how do you tackle the situation?
Wehave VERY hard water that calcifies terribly... My new system has
in-line "tortuos path" emitters which I hope will be "resistant" to the
calcification process.
>8) How frequent do you irrigate? Many times a day, one long session per day,
>or once every several days?
I have 9 working valves, each runs from one to three times a week
(depending upon the season and weather).
>9) Do you have rodent damage? If so, how do you control the problem?
Not a problem at this point.
>10) Are you pleased with the uniformity of your system or systems? Were they
>designed correctly?
Don't know yet...
>11) How did you find out about the Trickle-L mailing list?
HortNet (www.hortnet.com)
>
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
Nan Sterman Design For Learning
nsterman@ucsd.edu 205 Cole Ranch Road
619 634-2902 Olivenhain, CA 92024
619 634-2957 (fax)
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 12:59:57 -0800
From: Jochen.Eberhard@t-online.de (Jochen Eberhard)
Subject: Re: Root vs Water distribution?
Hi
another comment of mine: a plant nutrition specialist once told me that
if you take a plant and place its(?) roots in four pots (in each one
fourth of the roots) the plant will grow without any significant
depression while only one of the four pots has a sufficient water and
nutrient content. I think if the plant has access to water within its
root zone which can be taken up easily the plant plant will not bother
about some of her roots having problems with a lack of water.
Jochen Eberhard, Germany
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 12:31:59 -0800
From: Jochen.Eberhard@t-online.de (Jochen Eberhard)
Subject: Re: Psychology of buried tape
Dear Randall and others,
very interesting statements. I totally agree with you. That one can not
see the water running in SDI sytems is the major problem. To a certain
degree surface drip irrigation has the same problem especially when using
mulch. With my little experience I would say, messuring the pessure at
the end of the drip line gives a good idea of the uniformity of the
setup. With simple adapters at the end of a few lines and a handheld
pressure gauge it should be possible to characterize rodent damage or
clogged emitters (at least higher rates of clogged emitters). If the
pressure loss at the end of the lines is uniform, the distibution of the
water should be alright. A relatively uniform clogging of the emitters
can be detected be the decrease of the emitter rate (irrigated amount of
water per time unit though the number of emitters). Or the other way
round: one usually calculates the runtime per irrigation event. If the
amount of water starts to drift in ether direction than there is someting
going wrong. So I alway tell the people to install a ... now I am missing
the word -where is my dictionary ... devise to messure the applied amount
of water (water gauge??).
Last but not least a general example: we can see electrisity, so a
hundred years ago the people did not trust this idea ("what happens if"),
nowadays we can not think living without it.
Best regards
Jochen Eberhard, Germany
email: Jochen.Eberhard@t-online.de
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 10:55:50 -0500
From: Irrometer@aol.com
Subject: Re: Root vs Water distribution?
In a message dated 97-01-01 15:53:04 EST, you write:
(From Blake Sanden)
>I have measured soil water depletion rates in pistachios and almonds that
>were 2 to 3 times potential ET (ie. Kc = 2 to 3) in a given cubic foot of
>soil. The next cubic foot deeper or on the opposite side of the hose at
>the same horizontal distance from the emitter woul have a Kc of 0.8 to 1.2.
>Water contents did not appear substantially different.
Blake Sanden (and an earlier private message from Jochen Eberhardt)
seem to be portraying (at least to me) an interesting point which
may be explained by the old rule of thumb that a crop root system
does not extract water uniformly throughout its effective rooting depth.
That "rule", basically stated, says that a crop extracts 40% from the
top 1/4 of its root system, 30% from the second 1/4, 20% from the
third 1/4 and 10% from the last 1/4. (40/30/20/10). For years we
have referred to this as the "Zone of Moisture Control" for purposes
of irrigating a soil to a given depth to restore it to field capacity.
In Agronomy No. 11 (p.582) Figure 30-2 from Richards and Marsh
used this fact to demonstrate how tensiometers, placed at two
depths in a sprinkler irrigated avocado orchard, could be used to
determine both WHEN and HOW MUCH to irrigate a given crop,
in a given soil, with a given irrigation system. Essentially stated,
we have always suggested that a measurement occur at the
bottom of the top 1/4 of the effective root system and at the bottom
of the top 3/4 of the effective root system. The "shallow"
placement is essentially "watching" the area which accounts for
40% of water uptake, with the "deeper" placement taking note
of the other 60% ( water applied to rewet the top 3/4 of the root
system will cause water movement beyond the 3/4 depth due
to gravity if nothing else--all things being equal, which they never
are I admit). Blake also noted a lower depletion rate on the
opposite side from the hose----perhaps due to the fact that less
water may be reaching there and thus less of a root mass in that
area (roots will congregate where the water is most easily extracted).
Yes---roots do have a "mind of their own" and it can be driven
single purposely by "where is the water ?". Does this line of
thought "compute"?
Regards, Bill Pogue
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Sat Jan 4 16:24 EST 1997
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 15:27:35 -0600
Message-Id: <199701042127.AA24476@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 695
Contents:
Re: Root vs Water distribution? (Jean <henri@ilink.nis.za>)
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 23:06:51 +0200
From: Jean <henri@ilink.nis.za>
Subject: Re: Root vs Water distribution?
At 02:29 PM 1/1/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Happy New Year, Tricklers!!
>
>I have measured soil water depletion rates in pistachios and almonds that
>were 2 to 3 times potential ET (ie. Kc = 2 to 3) in a given cubic foot of
>soil. The next cubic foot deeper or on the opposite side of the hose at
>the same horizontal distance from the emitter woul have a Kc of 0.8 to 1.2.
>Water contents did not appear substantially different. This was
>determined by installing neutron probe access tubes in a transect
>perpendicular to drip and microsprinkler hose lines that run down the tree
>row. Soils were a fairly uniform Panoche clay loam and a Twissleman silt
>loam in different sites. THE POINT is that roots have a mind of their own
>-- especially in trees!!
>
> (
>>Marty Grogan, BSAE, MSEE
>>Grogan Engineering Services
>>1328 Rathwood Ave.
>>Richland, WA 99352
>>(509)627-3083 (voice and FAX)
>>ges@oneworld.owt.com
>>
>>Specializing in Systems Integration Services for Agriculture: Automation,
>>Telemetry, Programming, Maintenance, Remote Sensing and Project Delivery.
>>
>> GES--The technology buckstopper.
>
>Thank you!!! You have made my day !!! Roots do not only have a mind of
their own. I am convinced after years of soil investigation that they have
also a soul as well.
I have been waiting for an occasion to stress the very fact that you have
now mentioned. Instrumentation sensitivity, accuracy and what ever else can
be expected from them is of little use unless a picture of the root
distribution of fruit trees or vines is obtained BEFORE probes are
installed. Rooting patterns vary according cultivars , rootstocks and
very often micro soil characteristics etc. etc. as well. Any probe placed
without first studying the roots in a soil pit is of little significance.
>
>
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Sun Jan 5 16:25 EST 1997
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:28:01 -0600
Message-Id: <199701052128.AA05776@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 696
Contents:
Happy 1997 and more (rmead@cybergate.com (Richard Mead))
Re: Happy 1997 and more (Steve Jordan <sjordan@utech.net>)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 17:24:41 GMT
From: rmead@cybergate.com (Richard Mead)
Subject: Happy 1997 and more
Happy 1997 !!
Trickle-L is now entering its third year online with more than 500
subscribers from 28 countries. Let's continue the great discussions about
the technology of microirrigation.
One of the main advantages of microirrigation is the ability to apply not
only a desired amount of water to the root zone, but a more precise level
of plant nutrients via fertigation.
The online magazine "Irrigation Journal"
(http://www.aip.com/green/ij/html/ij.html) has in its Nov.-Dec. '96 issue,
an article written by Trickle-L subscriber Blaine Hansen*. The article is
entitled "Fertilizing Row Crops with Drip Irrigation". Within the article,
Blaine uses some tables obtained from another Trickle-L subscriber T. K.
Hartz**. The tables are potentially so useful that I have placed them on
the Microirrigation Forum web site
(http://www.cybergate.com/~rmead) with Blaine's permission.
The tables are:
- Nitrogen requirements of vegetable crops, found at:
http://www.cybergate.com/~rmead/n-req.html
- Liquid weights and Nitrogen percentages for various fertilizers, found at:
http://www.cybergate.com/~rmead/l-fert.html
Due to the international scope of Trickle-L and the Internet, both tables
display U.S. and metric units.
The original Irrigation Journal article as of January 5, can be found at:
http://www.aip.com/green/ij/html/1296drip.html.
It is possible that after January 5, the Irrigation Journal will place the
fertilizer article into the AIP archives.
* Irrigation & Drainage specialist at U.C. Davis
** Vegetable specialist at U.C. Davis
------------------------------------------------------
Richard Mead
Trickle-L owner/manager
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 12:56:02 -0800
From: Steve Jordan <sjordan@utech.net>
Subject: Re: Happy 1997 and more
I just saw a brochure from Netafim about a new disk filter. It was
impregnated with trifurulan (sp?). It stopped root intrusion??
Steve Jordan- Artichoke Evangelist, Wetland manager
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Mon Jan 6 16:31 EST 1997
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 15:33:44 -0600
Message-Id: <199701062133.AA28949@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 697
Contents:
Re: Happy 1997 and more (Jerome Pier <jpier@mindspring.com>)
High Frequency Irrigation On Uneven Ground (HOPSRME@aol.com)
Re: Happy 1997 and more (nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman))
What is an "artichoke evangelist?" (nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman))
Re: Root vs Water distribution? (Jean <henri@ilink.nis.za>)
Re: Psychology of buried tape (Jean <henri@ilink.nis.za>)
Re: introduction (Jean <henri@ilink.nis.za>)
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 16:12:49 -0800
From: Jerome Pier <jpier@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Happy 1997 and more
Steve Jordan wrote:
>
> I just saw a brochure from Netafim about a new disk filter. It was
> impregnated with trifurulan (sp?). It stopped root intrusion??
> Steve Jordan- Artichoke Evangelist, Wetland manager
Dear Steve,
The Techfilter is impregnated with trifluralin and is designed for use
in landscape applications to prevent root intrusion. The volume of water
required for most ag applications makes trifluralin impregnation
impractical under those conditions.
Jerome Pier
Agronomist
Netafim Irrigation, Inc.
jpier@mindspring.com
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 20:00:15 -0500
From: HOPSRME@aol.com
Subject: High Frequency Irrigation On Uneven Ground
I am looking for some type of in-line check valve to install in my drip tube
to prevent water from collecting, and puddling in the low spots along the
drip lateral after system shut down, or set change. I currently use Netafim
RAM tubing on the surface. If I attempt to make sets that are
high-frequency, but short-term in duration, this terribly exacerbates the
problem. Not only does puddling occur, but the flatter areas suffer because
the water is draining from this part of the hose. Any help would be
appreciated, Thanks!
Eric
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 10:02:21 -0800 (PST)
From: nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman)
Subject: Re: Happy 1997 and more
>Steve Jordan- Artichoke Evangelist, Wetland manager
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
Nan Sterman Design For Learning
nsterman@ucsd.edu 205 Cole Ranch Road
619 634-2902 Olivenhain, CA 92024
619 634-2957 (fax)
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 10:02:23 -0800 (PST)
From: nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman)
Subject: What is an "artichoke evangelist?"
This is a note for Steve Jordan: What exactly is an "artichoke evangelist?"
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
Nan Sterman Design For Learning
nsterman@ucsd.edu 205 Cole Ranch Road
619 634-2902 Olivenhain, CA 92024
619 634-2957 (fax)
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:44:56 +0200
From: Jean <henri@ilink.nis.za>
Subject: Re: Root vs Water distribution?
At 12:28 PM 1/3/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi
>another comment of mine: a plant nutrition specialist once told me that
>if you take a plant and place its(?) roots in four pots (in each one
>fourth of the roots) the plant will grow without any significant
>depression while only one of the four pots has a sufficient water and
>nutrient content. I think if the plant has access to water within its
>root zone which can be taken up easily the plant plant will not bother
>about some of her roots having problems with a lack of water.
>
>Jochen Eberhard, Germany
>
>Hi, Such a demonstration that was widely reported was carried out by F
Black (if I remember correctly ) in Australia in aboutthe mid sixties. A
root in a pot with only N, one with P, one with K and one in H2O. Many
people thought this would simplify not only irrigation but also fertilisation!
The problem was that the experiment was carried out with a very small fruit
tree and as far as I know never field tested to maturity to give say 80tons
of apples per hectare.
In our area with winter rains roots of vines and fruit trees develop in a
far larger volume of soil than is wetted by the drip irrigation system
during the dry summer season. This almost reflects the Black experiment
which was carried out before drip irr. became generally used. Jean/
>
>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:44:58 +0200
From: Jean <henri@ilink.nis.za>
Subject: Re: Psychology of buried tape
At 12:37 PM 1/3/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Dear Randall and others,
>
>very interesting statements. I totally agree with you. That one can not
>see the water running in SDI sytems is the major problem.
In practice there is no way that you can pick up odd drippers clogged up
here and there. Sorry. Full anti-clogging pretreatment of the irr.water is
essential. Jean/
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:45:00 +0200
From: Jean <henri@ilink.nis.za>
Subject: Re: introduction
At 12:17 PM 12/31/96 -0600, you wrote:
I started using the black spongy soaker
>hoses for irrigation, and discovered that I was not placing them quite
>correctly, was not using enough of them, and the plants were not getting
enough
>water. So that is why I joined this List; to learn more about the whys
>and wherefores of watering techniques. Judy Sylvester
>
>Hi Judy, If the tubing you are using is made of recycled tyres we have also
had no luck with it as it needs high pressure to disgorge enough water in
order to irrigate efficiently, but it is sold as a soaker needing zut
pressure. Jean/
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Tue Jan 7 18:40 EST 1997
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:42:13 -0600
Message-Id: <199701072342.AA02429@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 698
Contents:
Re: introduction (nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman))
Re: What is an "artichoke evangelist?" (Steve Jordan <sjordan@utech.net>)
Central Plains Irrigation Shortcourse Colby, KS USA (FLamm@oznet.ksu.edu (Freddie Lamm))
Re: What is an "artichoke evangelist?" (Tim1Utah@aol.com)
Lists ("Alan S. Wicks" <awicks@televar.com>)
Re: Central Plains Irrigation Shortcourse Colby, KS USA ("Alan S. Wicks" <awicks@televar.com>)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 14:25:18 -0800 (PST)
From: nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman)
Subject: Re: introduction
>At 12:17 PM 12/31/96 -0600, you wrote:
> I started using the black spongy soaker
>>hoses for irrigation, and discovered that I was not placing them quite
>>correctly, was not using enough of them, and the plants were not getting
>enough
>>water. So that is why I joined this List; to learn more about the whys
>>and wherefores of watering techniques. Judy Sylvester
>>
If the tubing you are using is made of recycled tyres we have also
>had no luck with it as it needs high pressure to disgorge enough water in
>order to irrigate efficiently, but it is sold as a soaker needing zut
>pressure. Jean/
Also, you might try tubing with in-line drip emitters such as that sold by
a company called "Drip-in." I've been using these for quite some time and
am EXTREMELY pleased with the results -- no clogging, good quality
products, etc. Because the emitters are spaced every 6 - 12 inches, I no
longer use individual emitters at plants, I simply wind a circle of the
line around the base (if it needs alot of water) or run a line past the
base (if it has little water needs). In a bed, I run the line in parallel,
about 12 inches apart.
A good book is: Drip Irrigation by Robert Kourik
Nan
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
Nan Sterman Design For Learning
nsterman@ucsd.edu 205 Cole Ranch Road
619 634-2902 Olivenhain, CA 92024
619 634-2957 (fax)
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 19:16:59 -0800
From: Steve Jordan <sjordan@utech.net>
Subject: Re: What is an "artichoke evangelist?"
>This is a note for Steve Jordan: What exactly is an "artichoke evangelist?"
>
I grow artichokes. Many people don't believe in artichokes. I have had
adults tell me that people don't cook in the summer because it is too hot.
(why sell raw hamburgers or corn?) These adults are some produce salesman
and produce buyers. About now, I go into my full blown spiel about ... Do
you get the picture? (www.artichokes.net- a work in construction)
Steve Jordan- Artichoke Evangelist, Wetland manager
Date: 07 Jan 97 10:27:02 CST
From: FLamm@oznet.ksu.edu (Freddie Lamm)
Subject: Central Plains Irrigation Shortcourse Colby, KS USA
Trickle-members
I know the trickle-l audience is international but for those in my
region.
Please take note of this regional meeting that is principally organized
by KSU, CSU and UNL Cooperative Extension Irrigation Engineers.
There will be a 90 minutes session on SDI for field corn covering
design and management considerations, KSU field research with corn
and economics of SDI for corn. I will be leading this session.
There is also an tradeshow for those industry people interested in
showing there wares. Tradeshow booths are $100 and can be obtained
at the Central Plains Irrigation Association (CPIA) address listed below.
***Incidently and not a conflict of interest, my wife serves as a paid
parttime assistant to the organization. However, I do get to sleep
with her. (Think about it, if you are comically challenged.) *****
Freddie
*
Central Plains Irrigation
Short Course & Exposition
February 4, 1997
8:00 am - 5:15 pm CST
Colby Community Building
285 East Fifth Street
Colby, Kansas
PROGRAM SCHEDULE
Registration 7:00 am - 2:00 pm
Continental breakfast, 7:00-8:00 am, foyer
General Session 8:00 - 9:00 am
Early bird door prize
Concepts of irrigation scheduling
Weather modification update
Exposition 9:00 -10:30 am
Grand opening and door prize
Refreshments in exposition at 10:00 am
Concurrent Sessions 10:30 am-noon
1. Sprinkler devices (repeats at 3:45 pm)
2. Conversion of furrow irrigation systems to sprinklers
3. Irrigation efficiencies
Lunch and Exposition 12:00-1:30 pm
Buffet lunch in exposition area.. Door prize.
Concurrent Sessions 1:30-3:00 pm
4. Chemigation workshop
5. Irrigation scheduling workshop
6. Subsurface drip irrigation
Exposition and Break 3:00-3:45 pm
Refreshments in exposition area
Door prize at close of trade show
Concurrent Sessions 3:45 - 5:15 pm
7. Sprinkler devices (repeat of Session 1)
8. Water policy session
9. State-of-the-art irrigation scheduling
Registration ($25.00) includes admittance to all sessions, a copy of
the proceedings and buffet lunch. Pre-registration is strongly
encouraged. Walk-in registrants will be accomodated on a
space-available basis, but will not receive luncheon tickets.
Registration and information:
Donna Lamm
CPIA executive assistant
970 West Fifth St.
Colby, KS 67701
Phone and Automatic Switching Fax: 913-462-7574
End of program
Freddie
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Freddie Lamm *
Research Agricultural Engineer *** o
KSU Northwest Research-Extension Center ***** /|\
105 Experiment Farm Road *******\\
Colby, Kansas 67701-1697 *********
Ph. 913-462-6281 ***********
FAX 913-462-2315 *************
Email:flamm@oznet.ksu.edu It's all downhill from here.
------ THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ, THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ. ------
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 12:31:27 -0500
From: Tim1Utah@aol.com
Subject: Re: What is an "artichoke evangelist?"
I just ate Artichokes last night! This sunday I am going to a "Come to
Artichoke" meeting! Amen!
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 12:32:52 -0800
From: "Alan S. Wicks" <awicks@televar.com>
Subject: Lists
Lists global/agriculture
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 12:34:38 -0800
From: "Alan S. Wicks" <awicks@televar.com>
Subject: Re: Central Plains Irrigation Shortcourse Colby, KS USA
Greetings,
Will you be publishing the proceedings on SDI in sweet corn on the WEB??
Or is there a way to get/see those papers after the conference?
Alan S. Wicks
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Wed Jan 8 19:46 EST 1997
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 18:48:36 -0600
Message-Id: <199701090048.AA05065@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 699
Contents:
Re: Happy 1997 and more (John Sorge <jsorg@hal-pc.org>)
Re: What is an "artichoke evangelist?" (nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman))
Re: Artichokes (Merriott@aol.com)
Re: Artichoke talk...? (rmead@cybergate.com (Richard Mead))
Re: Artichoke talk...? (Irrometer@aol.com)
Watermark (Byron Irvine <pf22408@em.agr.ca>)
[Fwd: Re: Psychology of buried tape] (Jochen.Eberhard@t-online.de (Jochen Eberhard))
Soil Water Holding Capacity (Jean <henri@ilink.nis.za>)
Re: Watermark (LRP@ICON.LAL.UFL.EDU)
Re: Artichoke talk...? (Jean Piaget <henri@ilink.nis.za>)
(frank131@juno.com (Franklyn A Rogers))
Soil Water Holding Capacity -Reply (Paul Reynolds <PREYNOLD@tnrcc.state.tx.us>)
RE: Watermark ("Craig A. Storlie" <storlie@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU>)
(Paul Reynolds <PREYNOLD@tnrcc.state.tx.us>)
pH & EC control concepts ("Dave Megeath-CIRR03" <Dave_Megeath-CIRR03@email.mot.com>)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:00:07 -0559 (CST)
From: John Sorge <jsorg@hal-pc.org>
Subject: Re: Happy 1997 and more
At 12:27 PM 1/6/97 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>Steve Jordan- Artichoke Evangelist, Wetland manager
>
>
>:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
>
>Nan Sterman Design For Learning
>nsterman@ucsd.edu 205 Cole Ranch Road
>619 634-2902 Olivenhain, CA 92024
>619 634-2957 (fax)
>
>:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
>
>Is an artichoke evangelist an evangelist you arta choke? I've seen a lot
of those.
>
>
>
>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 20:20:24 -0800 (PST)
From: nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman)
Subject: Re: What is an "artichoke evangelist?"
People don't believe in artichokes???? I can't imagine it! My children
loved them as soon as they had enough teeth to eath them! My family of
origin fought over them at the dinner table! They are one of life's
treasures! Though, I admit that I never feel like I have enough time to
cook them and then make any of the wonderful sounding dishes I've recipes
for.... We just eat them steamed with rice wine vinegar.
I just planted three "imperial globe improved" (or something like that) in
my yard in the San Diego area. What varieties do you favor?
Keep on evangelizing!
Nan
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
Nan Sterman Design For Learning
nsterman@ucsd.edu 205 Cole Ranch Road
619 634-2902 Olivenhain, CA 92024
619 634-2957 (fax)
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:21:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Merriott@aol.com
Subject: Re: Artichokes
Wasn't there a Jr. College football team somewhere in the Southwestern US
named the Artichokes? Seems like it might have been in Arizona.
Randall Merriott
Abernathy, Texas
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 05:23:38 GMT
From: rmead@cybergate.com (Richard Mead)
Subject: Re: Artichoke talk...?
Ahhemmm...
This is not Artichoke-L. Previous postings were humerous, but lets get to
discussing how to drip irrigate artichokes.
Thank you.
Richard Mead
Trickle-L owner
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:21:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Irrometer@aol.com
Subject: Re: Artichoke talk...?
In a message dated 97-01-08 00:25:10 EST, you write:
>This is not Artichoke-L. Previous postings were humerous, but lets get to
>discussing how to drip irrigate artichokes.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Richard Mead
Tensiometers are most appropriate management tools to assess
soil moisture status for best results. Being a rather deeper rooted
crop, in deep well drained soils maintenance of readily available
soil water to the 90 cm depth would be suggested, while monitoring
the 30 and 60 cm depth as well. As with most drip irrigated crops,
maintaining a maximum depletion level of near 25% of available
water is normal. Depending on the depth at which the depletion
to that level is approaching, an irrigator would modify duration so
as to rewet the soil to field capacity to the depth required ( i.e.
shorter durations to refill the top 30 cm, longer to satisfy the
60 cm depth, etc.).
Regards, Bill Pogue
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 11:53:45 -0500
From: Byron Irvine <pf22408@em.agr.ca>
Subject: Watermark
If anyone has the hardware and software specs for hooking up
Watermark sensors to a Campbell Sci CR10 could they send them to my
eMail
PF22408@em.agr.ca
Thanks
Byron Irvine
Saskatchewan Irrigation Development Centre
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 15:41:46 -0800
From: Jochen.Eberhard@t-online.de (Jochen Eberhard)
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Psychology of buried tape]
Jean wrote:
>
> At 12:37 PM 1/3/97 -0600, you wrote:
> >Dear Randall and others,
> >
> >very interesting statements. I totally agree with you. That one can not
> >see the water running in SDI sytems is the major problem.
>
> In practice there is no way that you can pick up odd drippers clogged up
> here and there. Sorry. Full anti-clogging pretreatment of the irr.water is
> essential. Jean/
Sure, there is no way around anti-clogging pretreatment of the irrigation
water. But that was not the point I wanted to line out, because one
cannot see the sucess of the pretreatment either. And a clogged emitter
here and there is not a specific problem with SDI (in a 200 m piece of a
netafim streamline tape I found one emitter which was blocked in the
manufactural process). So my intention was to give the growers "something
to look at", so they can "see" the system running within some kind of
"o.K.-status". But this cannot compensate excellent filtration and
anti-clogging treatments.
Jochen Eberhard
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:49:05 +0200
From: Jean <henri@ilink.nis.za>
Subject: Soil Water Holding Capacity
Hi all Listers,
In Stellenbosch we have an Irrigation Discussion Group at present
concentrating on methods of irrigation scheduling. ( tensiometers,
Neutron probes, PC programs related to weather station or
evaporation pan, TDR etc, )
A bone of contention has been the uncertainty surrounding the values
obtained by various means for water holding capacities. Also what percentage
of such values to use.
( Methods include Pressure plates at various pressures, Neutron probe.
Regresion curves based on clay and silt contents, etc. )
I have been requested to SOS the following :
What methods do you locally use or accept for the determination of the water
holding capacity of a soil. 1) in situ 2) in a laboratory on a soil sample,
3) a sample containing stones ? Reason for specific choices would be very
welcomed.
And,,,, yes, we still express it as mm/m or mm/root depth !
In order to avoid unnecessary duplications please reply in outline only.
All replies will be acknowledged and further correspondence will be entered
into as and when required.
Dr. Jean Piaget
Piaget Consultancy
Stellenbosch
South Africa
PS : I bragged to the local Discussion Group about the great
responsiveness of the Internet list members!
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 13:58:01 -0500 (EST)
From: LRP@ICON.LAL.UFL.EDU
Subject: Re: Watermark
I'd be interested in how others have hooked up Watermarks to a Campbell
data logger. Could examples be sent to the whole group?
Larry Parsons LRP@icon.lal.ufl.edu
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:37:49 +0200
From: Jean Piaget <henri@ilink.nis.za>
Subject: Re: Artichoke talk...?
A
>Tensiometers are most appropriate management tools to assess
>soil moisture status for best results. Being a rather deeper rooted
>crop, in deep well drained soils maintenance of readily available
>soil water to the 90 cm depth would be suggested, while monitoring
>the 30 and 60 cm depth as well. As with most drip irrigated crops,
>maintaining a maximum depletion level of near 25% of available
>water is normal. Depending on the depth at which the depletion
>to that level is approaching, an irrigator would modify duration so
>as to rewet the soil to field capacity to the depth required ( i.e.
>shorter durations to refill the top 30 cm, longer to satisfy the
>60 cm depth, etc.).
>Regards, Bill Pogue
>
>Hi Bill,
You speak of available water. I have today posted a question to list members
on how this is measured as there is infighting amongst our local irrigation
discusion group about this term and method/s of determining it. Support
expected. Regards, Jean/
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 16:40:44 EST
From: frank131@juno.com (Franklyn A Rogers)
Subject:
lists global\agriculture
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 16:12:48 -0600
From: Paul Reynolds <PREYNOLD@tnrcc.state.tx.us>
Subject: Soil Water Holding Capacity -Reply
You may want to check the following references, if have access to
them.
Methods of Soil Analysis, Part I-Physical and Mineralogical Methods,
Second Edition. Published by the Ag. Soc. of Amer. and the Soil Sci.
Soc. of Amer.
Soil Survey Laboratory Methods Manual. Soil Survey Investigations
Report 42. United States Dept. of Ag., Soil Cons. Serv.
The Methods of Soil Analysis has a chapter that deals with field
capacities and available water. I'm not sure about the SCS document.
If you can't locate these, I'm sure some one can assist with locating
these documents.
good luck
preynold
Agronomist
TNRCC
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 17:48:01 -0500
From: "Craig A. Storlie" <storlie@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU>
Subject: RE: Watermark
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFD8C.1876ACA0
Listers:
I am almost certain that Campbell Sci has a nice tech sheet describing the procedure.
Craig
----------
From: LRP@ICON.LAL.UFL.EDU[SMTP:LRP@ICON.LAL.UFL.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 1997 4:21 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: Watermark
I'd be interested in how others have hooked up Watermarks to a Campbell
data logger. Could examples be sent to the whole group?
Larry Parsons LRP@icon.lal.ufl.edu
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFD8C.1876ACA0
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ANwE
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFD8C.1876ACA0--
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 17:40:35 -0600
From: Paul Reynolds <PREYNOLD@tnrcc.state.tx.us>
Subject:
What is lists global\agriculture. What are you referring to. I recieved
this message and cannot grasp it's meaning.
thanks,
preynold
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:18:00 -0600
From: "Dave Megeath-CIRR03" <Dave_Megeath-CIRR03@email.mot.com>
Subject: pH & EC control concepts
I am working on implementation of a PLC (programmable logic
controller) to provide irrigation control including monitor of pH and
EC and corresponding control of injection pumps to apply fertilizer
and / or pH buffering solutions (if too high, dose acidic ; if too
low, dose alkaline).
Our thought at this point is to use simple fixed stroke or quantity
pumps and pulse them on/off--the frequency of pulsing on determined by
severity of pH shift.
Any experience or brainstorming welcome!
Regards,
Dave Megeath
Motorola Inc.
internet: cirr03@email.mot.com
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Fri Jan 10 14:59 EST 1997
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:01:51 -0600
Message-Id: <199701102001.AA19591@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 700
Contents:
Re: pH & EC control concepts ("J.D. Oster" <oster@mail.ucr.edu>)
Re: Artichokes ("Aron A. Quist," <stanworth@mail.telis.org>)
Re: Watermark (Irrometer@aol.com)
Re: pH & EC control concepts (nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman))
Re: pH & EC control concepts ("W. Bryan Smith" <wsmth@clemson.edu>)
Soil water holding capacity (norton.scott@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au)
pH and EC control concepts (Casper du Plessis <aqua@iafrica.com>)
An introduction. (David.Williams@smtpgwy.agric.nsw.gov.au)
Re: Watermark (ges@owt.com (Marty Grogan))
Re: pH & EC control concepts (ges@owt.com (Marty Grogan))
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 19:11:59 -0600
From: "J.D. Oster" <oster@mail.ucr.edu>
Subject: Re: pH & EC control concepts
I'll bit on this but realize that I'm not an engineer and its too late in
the afternoon for common sense to rule! Your sensor would need to be located
several pipe diameters down stream--enough to assure good mixing but not so
far that the signal from the sensor would cause hunting. The frequence of
amendment addition by whatever means should keep the measured parameter
within some preset limits e.g. + - 0.2 pH units and will depend on the
concentration of the amendment, the flow rate of the water supply, and the
change in pH required. Wouldn't the quantity of amendment needed per unit
time be important in determining which type of pump to use? The quantity of
amendment required ma
> I am working on implementation of a PLC (programmable logic
> controller) to provide irrigation control including monitor of pH and
> EC and corresponding control of injection pumps to apply fertilizer
> and / or pH buffering solutions (if too high, dose acidic ; if too
> low, dose alkaline).
>
> Our thought at this point is to use simple fixed stroke or quantity
> pumps and pulse them on/off--the frequency of pulsing on determined by
> severity of pH shift.
>
> Any experience or brainstorming welcome!
>
> Regards,
> Dave Megeath
> Motorola Inc.
> internet: cirr03@email.mot.com
>
J.D.(Jim) Oster
Dept. of Soil & Env. Sciences
University of California
Riverside, CA 92521
Phone (909)787-5100
FAX (909)787-5522
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:14:44 -0800 (PST)
From: "Aron A. Quist," <stanworth@mail.telis.org>
Subject: Re: Artichokes
That is the Scottsdale Community College "Artichokes". Hailing from the Holy torripsamments of Central Arizona.
Aron
At 10:35 PM 1/7/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Wasn't there a Jr. College football team somewhere in the Southwestern US
>named the Artichokes? Seems like it might have been in Arizona.
>
>Randall Merriott
>Abernathy, Texas
>
>
>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:56:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Irrometer@aol.com
Subject: Re: Watermark
In a message dated 97-01-08 13:26:07 EST, you write:
>If anyone has the hardware and software specs for hooking up
>Watermark sensors to a Campbell Sci CR10 could they send them to my
>eMail
>PF22408@em.agr.ca
>
>Thanks
>Byron Irvine
>Saskatchewan Irrigation Development Centre
Safest bet would be to contact Campbell--at least that's
what we always suggest as the manufacturer of the
Watermark.
Regards, Bill Pogue, Irrometer Company, Inc.
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:24:54 -0800 (PST)
From: nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman)
Subject: Re: pH & EC control concepts
> I am working on implementation of a PLC (programmable logic
> controller) to provide irrigation control including monitor of pH and
> EC and corresponding control of injection pumps to apply fertilizer
> and / or pH buffering solutions (if too high, dose acidic ; if too
> low, dose alkaline).
>
> Our thought at this point is to use simple fixed stroke or quantity
> pumps and pulse them on/off--the frequency of pulsing on determined by
> severity of pH shift.
>
> Any experience or brainstorming welcome!
>
> Regards,
> Dave Megeath
> Motorola Inc.
> internet: cirr03@email.mot.com
My only comment, is to ask you to remember us home hobbyists as you develop
this product.....
Nan Sterman
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
Nan Sterman Design For Learning
nsterman@ucsd.edu 205 Cole Ranch Road
619 634-2902 Olivenhain, CA 92024
619 634-2957 (fax)
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 09:50:02 -0500
From: "W. Bryan Smith" <wsmth@clemson.edu>
Subject: Re: pH & EC control concepts
Dave,
Most electric motors (I assume this is the power method you will
use) need a period of time to allow the start windings to cool
between starts. In the past I have used the figure of 12 starts in
one hour, or approximately one start every 5 minutes. This figure
was mentioned to me by an Electrical Engineer I used to work with
and has worked well on smaller motors (read 5 hp or less) in the past.
Your pulsing may cause the injection pump to start with a much
greater frequency than this, hence possibly burning up your start
windings. You might look into a variable-speed setup of some sort,
using a variable speed drive attached between the motor and
pump with maybe even an electrical clutch for disengagement if
needed. This would allow the motor to run continuously if required,
with all injection rate changes made by the variable speed drive in
tiny increments if necessary.
Possibly some of the variable frequency technology available
today might also work, although I don't know if this is applicable to
smaller motor sizes or if it would even be cost effective. Also, you
might even try controlling two or three injection pumps of different
sizes with a PLC controller, which would allow you to inject a
multitude of different rates. I suspect this would be cost-prohibitive.
I did hear of one case where it was actually cheaper for the grower
to "burn up" a pump each year (due to the frequency of motor starts)
and replace it than it was for him to install this type of
variable-drive technology at his farm. I guess it would depend on
economies of scale .....
Hope this gives you some ideas.
Bryan
--------------------------------------------------
W. Bryan Smith
Area Extension Agent - Irrigation / Water Quality
Clemson Extension Service
P.O. Box 160
Newberry, South Carolina 29108
USA
Office: 803 276-1091 FAX: 803 276-1095
Internet: wsmth@clemson.edu
--------------------------------------------------
All opinions are my own and not reflective of the
policies of Clemson University or the Cooperative
Extension Service.
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 08:47:15 +0930
From: norton.scott@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au
Subject: Soil water holding capacity
In response to Jean Piaget's query we have done hundreds of soil water release curves in the
Riverland of South Australia. Our technique is to do them in the lab as a combination of suction and
pressure plate to -1500kPa. We avoid stones because when we soil survey we can estimate
percentage stone and adjust the water holding capacity accordingly. All our results are expressed as
mm/m or mm of water in the rootzone. The figures we use seem to align very well when we install
neutron probe sites and properly calibrate them.
In terms of the percentage of the soil water holding capacity to use we have found for our conditions
with permanent horticultural crops (citrus, vines, stonefruit), that -8kPa to -60kPa gives a good
estimation. We call this Readily Available Water (RAW) and find it is a great starting point prior to
undertaking a soil water monitoring program. Under some management conditions such as with vines
we may use RAW up -100kPa while with vegetables -20kPa is more useful. Whatever portion of soil
water is used the most critical thing is to never make assumptions but keep checking by whatever
means (neutron probe, auger etc).
regards,
Scott W Norton
Irrigated Crop Management Service
PO Box 411
Loxton
South Australia
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 04:08:46 -0800
From: Casper du Plessis <aqua@iafrica.com>
Subject: pH and EC control concepts
I have designed and programmed a few PLCs. What I found is if you want
to control more than ten outputs it is cheaper to use a PLC as you
intend.
For PH control we use a elecktro magnetic pump that requires a digital
output from the PLC. The pump will puls every time a signal is received
from the PLC. If both lowering and increasing of pH are needed you
require two pumps. The PLC is programmed to either puls the a or b pump.
These pumps are standard of the shelve units.
Also required will be a pH probe with its card to read across the probe.
This card will send an analogue signal to your PLC.
For EC control we found controlling the pump to be to expensive. It is
more feasable to use one multi stage pump to pump at its designed flow.
The injection control is done with a motorised valve. This valve is
pulsed open or closed by your PLC, the overflow is send back to the
holding tank through a pressure releive valve.
This control will need two analog outputs from the PLC to pull in
contactors sending electric current to either the open or close side of
your valve. By using this concept only one pump is required, you only
need to use an extra valve for every injection point. A further
advantage is that the overflow returning to the tank can be used for
aggitation.
For EC metering you will need a probe and card to read and send a analog
signal to your PLC.
As you can see from the above you only need to use a small PLC to do the
actual control of pH and EC, the units however are expensive.
Where less than four analog inputs and ten digital outputs are needed it
is less expensive to use standard controllers that read and control the
dosage. These units sell for around 500 US dollar.
If you send me information on an actual installation I can help you with
equipment specifications and design parameters.
Regards,
Casper J H du Plessis
Aqualine
aqua@iafrica.com
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 16:04:23 EST
From: David.Williams@smtpgwy.agric.nsw.gov.au
Subject: An introduction.
Hello,
Allow me to introduce myself. My name is David Williams and I have
recently started to work for NSW Agriculture as an Irrigation
Extension Agronomist. I am based at Yanco, situated in the
Murrumbidgee Irrigation Area, New South Wales, Australia. The MIA was
formed around 1910, and is one of the largest and most diverse
irrigation areas in Australia. I have a Cotton Agronomy and flood
irrigation background.
Now to answer Richard's questions:
Drip Irrigation in Australia, both sub and surface is really starting
to take off. We have a dry country with limited water resources,
increasing water costs and greater emphasis on environmental
allocations. As a result any method that will enable greater
irrigation efficiencies will play a vital role in the future of
irrigated agriculture.
We have a problem in the MIA with groundwater accessions and resulting
salinisation due mainly to leaky channels and over seventy years of
intensive flood irrigation. The majority of the horticultural areas
have been tile or mole drained to keep the water tables to a
manageable level.
The long term plan in general is to replace leaking supply channels
with piped systems, with growers converting to automated drip or micro
irrigation. In the meantime, there is a lot of flood and overhead
sprinkler irrigation being converted over by growers who can see
benefits in doing so.
Grapes, citrus and vegetables are the main crops being irrigated with
drip in this area at the moment. The grapes and citrus are surface
drip. However to our north in other catchments there is some sub
surface drip irrigation of Lucerne (alfalfa) and Cotton in it's
infancy. This is the area that I would like to specialise in.
The depth of the sub surface drip varies with soil type, crops and
tillage traffic patterns. The drip on cotton for example is 280mm
below a bed containing two rows of cotton, lucerne is around 350mm.
The problems that we are encountering are:
- timing of installation, needs to be installed and operating
before the start of the season.
- selection of depth for sub surface, this is difficult in new
areas. Soil type response need to be trialed first.
- poor system design and installation, our sub work is still very
new and there are limited numbers of experienced installers.
- farmers can't "see" what is happening, a greater emphasis is
therefore placed on education, management, monitoring and scheduling.
Fertigation is occurring, but I have no experience at this stage.
In some drip installation cases, water use is reduced by over 60% when
compared to previous practices. Drip irrigation watering frequencies
tend to match daily water use levels for each crop, that being smaller
yet frequent applications.
We do get some damage from wildlife. Foxes and birds such as cockatoos
damage the above ground components of the systems. Due to high UV
levels, products need to be UV stabilised in order to provide an
adequate lifespan.
Distribution uniformity tends to be on the whole quite good providing
the design is accurate and product quality remains high.
Thanks for allowing me to introduce myself and the area where I work.
David Williams
NSW Agriculture
Yanco NSW 2703
Australia
williad@agric.nsw.gov.au
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:10:35 -0800
From: ges@owt.com (Marty Grogan)
Subject: Re: Watermark
>I'd be interested in how others have hooked up Watermarks to a Campbell
>data logger. Could examples be sent to the whole group?
>Larry Parsons LRP@icon.lal.ufl.edu
>
>
Watermark sensors operate electrically as variable resistors. Given the
impedance, a series resistor from a 12vdc source of 500 ohms should provide
sufficient excitation to power the watermark without undue heating.
A 0-10vdc input can then be used on a logger to record the voltage between
ground and the junction between the resistor and the watermark.
This circuit does provide variation with water content, but will provide
highly nonlinear results.
Calibration is essential.
M.G.
Marty Grogan, BSAE, MSEE
Grogan Engineering Services
1328 Rathwood Ave.
Richland, WA 99352
(509)627-3083 (voice and FAX)
ges@oneworld.owt.com
Specializing in Systems Integration Services for Agriculture: Automation,
Telemetry, Programming, Maintenance, Remote Sensing and Project Delivery.
GES--The technology buckstopper.
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:10:38 -0800
From: ges@owt.com (Marty Grogan)
Subject: Re: pH & EC control concepts
> I am working on implementation of a PLC (programmable logic
> controller) to provide irrigation control including monitor of pH and
> EC and corresponding control of injection pumps to apply fertilizer
> and / or pH buffering solutions (if too high, dose acidic ; if too
> low, dose alkaline).
>
> Our thought at this point is to use simple fixed stroke or quantity
> pumps and pulse them on/off--the frequency of pulsing on determined by
> severity of pH shift.
>
> Any experience or brainstorming welcome!
>
> Regards,
> Dave Megeath
> Motorola Inc.
> internet: cirr03@email.mot.com
>
>
Check with AgVision in Hermiston, OR.(800-495-5188) They have such a system
on the market. Connecting it to a PLC should be very easy.
Marty Grogan, BSAE, MSEE
Grogan Engineering Services
1328 Rathwood Ave.
Richland, WA 99352
(509)627-3083 (voice and FAX)
ges@oneworld.owt.com
Specializing in Systems Integration Services for Agriculture: Automation,
Telemetry, Programming, Maintenance, Remote Sensing and Project Delivery.
GES--The technology buckstopper.
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Sat Jan 11 14:59 EST 1997
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:02:07 -0600
Message-Id: <199701112002.AA11033@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 701
Contents:
Re: C P Irr Shortcourse proceedings (FLamm@oznet.ksu.edu (Freddie Lamm))
Re: Central Plains Irrigation Shortcourse Colby, KS USA (blsanden@ucdavis.edu (Blake Sanden))
Re: pH & EC control concepts ("Aron A. Quist," <stanworth@mail.telis.org>)
(Richard Olson <ozoneguy@enviro.org>)
Date: 10 Jan 97 16:57:21 CST
From: FLamm@oznet.ksu.edu (Freddie Lamm)
Subject: Re: C P Irr Shortcourse proceedings
Alan Wicks said:
Will you be publishing the proceedings on SDI in sweet corn on the WEB??
Or is there a way to get/see those papers after the conference?
Freddie replied:
It's not "sweet" corn, it's field corn.
You have struck that sore nerve, again, our site does not have WEB
access yet, and I so far, have not really gotten excited about posting
WEB material that I CAN'T EASILY SEE. The ironic thing is campus
tells us we have our own KSU-NWREC site we can post to but hasn't put
WEB access in our office yet. Enough complaining from me, it's not
your fault.
Yes, there will be a published proceedings. The meeting costs $25
and so at a maximum the proceedings is available at $25. After the
meeting there will probably be copies left over and I don't believe
a cost has been attached to them yet. I'll try to remember to do a
posting. The value of the proceedings to those heavily involved in
SDI already, would probably be low. These are more
producer-oriented papers for a region where SDI is relatively
unheard of.
Freddie
*
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Freddie Lamm *
Research Agricultural Engineer *** o
KSU Northwest Research-Extension Center ***** /|\
105 Experiment Farm Road *******\\
Colby, Kansas 67701-1697 *********
Ph. 913-462-6281 ***********
FAX 913-462-2315 *************
Email:flamm@oznet.ksu.edu It's all downhill from here.
------ THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ, THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ. ------
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:31:39 +0000
From: blsanden@ucdavis.edu (Blake Sanden)
Subject: Re: Central Plains Irrigation Shortcourse Colby, KS USA
To Freddie Lamm:
Is this permanent SDI on corn? What is the rotation? It's hard to see how
you make it pay. Do you have a crop/system budget you can share with the
rest of us?
Thanks,
Blake Sanden
Irrigation Management & Agronomy Farm Advisor, Kern County
1031 S Mt Vernon Ave
Bakersfield, CA 92307
805-868-6218
blsanden@ucdavis.edu
>Trickle-members
>I know the trickle-l audience is international but for those in my
>region.
>
>Please take note of this regional meeting that is principally organized
> by KSU, CSU and UNL Cooperative Extension Irrigation Engineers.
>There will be a 90 minutes session on SDI for field corn covering
>design and management considerations, KSU field research with corn
>and economics of SDI for corn. I will be leading this session.
>There is also an tradeshow for those industry people interested in
>showing there wares. Tradeshow booths are $100 and can be obtained
>at the Central Plains Irrigation Association (CPIA) address listed below.
>
>***Incidently and not a conflict of interest, my wife serves as a paid
>parttime assistant to the organization. However, I do get to sleep
>with her. (Think about it, if you are comically challenged.) *****
>
>Freddie
>*
>
>Central Plains Irrigation
>Short Course & Exposition
>February 4, 1997
>8:00 am - 5:15 pm CST
>Colby Community Building
>285 East Fifth Street
>Colby, Kansas
>
>PROGRAM SCHEDULE
>Registration 7:00 am - 2:00 pm
> Continental breakfast, 7:00-8:00 am, foyer
>
>General Session 8:00 - 9:00 am
> Early bird door prize
> Concepts of irrigation scheduling
> Weather modification update
>
>Exposition 9:00 -10:30 am
> Grand opening and door prize
> Refreshments in exposition at 10:00 am
>
>Concurrent Sessions 10:30 am-noon
> 1. Sprinkler devices (repeats at 3:45 pm)
> 2. Conversion of furrow irrigation systems to sprinklers
> 3. Irrigation efficiencies
>
>Lunch and Exposition 12:00-1:30 pm
> Buffet lunch in exposition area.. Door prize.
>
>Concurrent Sessions 1:30-3:00 pm
> 4. Chemigation workshop
> 5. Irrigation scheduling workshop
> 6. Subsurface drip irrigation
>
>Exposition and Break 3:00-3:45 pm
> Refreshments in exposition area
> Door prize at close of trade show
>
>Concurrent Sessions 3:45 - 5:15 pm
> 7. Sprinkler devices (repeat of Session 1)
> 8. Water policy session
> 9. State-of-the-art irrigation scheduling
>
>Registration ($25.00) includes admittance to all sessions, a copy of
>the proceedings and buffet lunch. Pre-registration is strongly
>encouraged. Walk-in registrants will be accomodated on a
>space-available basis, but will not receive luncheon tickets.
>
>Registration and information:
> Donna Lamm
> CPIA executive assistant
> 970 West Fifth St.
> Colby, KS 67701
>Phone and Automatic Switching Fax: 913-462-7574
>
>
>End of program
>
>Freddie
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>Freddie Lamm *
>Research Agricultural Engineer *** o
>KSU Northwest Research-Extension Center ***** /|\
>105 Experiment Farm Road *******\\
>Colby, Kansas 67701-1697 *********
>Ph. 913-462-6281 ***********
>FAX 913-462-2315 *************
>Email:flamm@oznet.ksu.edu It's all downhill from here.
>
>------ THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ, THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ. ------
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:51:37 -0800 (PST)
From: "Aron A. Quist," <stanworth@mail.telis.org>
Subject: Re: pH & EC control concepts
Dear Dave:
I worked with a guy named Tom Lubin 6 or 7 years ago in Phoenix Arizona. He had a system that did exactly that with sulfuric acid. This was done on Golf Courses. An associated company was Arizona Acid Specialists, Steve Montoya. They are in the Phoenix area as well. Some of the Turf grass irrigaiton companies may be helpful especially Toro and Rainbird. The system worked very well. The name of the courses were TPC at Scottsdale, Rio Verde C.C. and Arizona Country club. The latter used the system to help kill asiatic clams that were clogging the sprinkler system.
Aron Quist
Stanworth Crop Consultants
At 06:47 PM 1/8/97 -0600, you wrote:
> I am working on implementation of a PLC (programmable logic
> controller) to provide irrigation control including monitor of pH and
> EC and corresponding control of injection pumps to apply fertilizer
> and / or pH buffering solutions (if too high, dose acidic ; if too
> low, dose alkaline).
>
> Our thought at this point is to use simple fixed stroke or quantity
> pumps and pulse them on/off--the frequency of pulsing on determined by
> severity of pH shift.
>
> Any experience or brainstorming welcome!
>
> Regards,
> Dave Megeath
> Motorola Inc.
> internet: cirr03@email.mot.com
>
>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:49:31 -0800
From: Richard Olson <ozoneguy@enviro.org>
Subject:
unsubscribe ozoneguy@enviro.org
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Mon Jan 13 12:25 EST 1997
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:27:27 -0600
Message-Id: <199701131727.AA13873@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 702
Contents:
Passiflora edulis ("Joachim Mueller" <MUELLER@495-simon.agrartech.uni-hohenheim.de>)
Nov & Dec archives are in (Richard Mead <rmead@cybergate.com>)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:06:34 +0200
From: "Joachim Mueller" <MUELLER@495-simon.agrartech.uni-hohenheim.de>
Subject: Passiflora edulis
for a research project on Santa Lucia we are looking for crop water
requirement of passiflora edulis. Can anybody help us with kc-values?
Thank you very much
Joachim Mueller
____________________________________________________
Dr. Joachim Mueller
Hohenheim University
Institute of Agricultural Engineering in the Tropics and Subtropics
Garbenstrasse 9
D-70599 Stuttgart
Germany
Voice: xx49 711 459 3106
Fax: xx49 711 459 3298
e-mail: mueller@ats.uni-hohenheim.de
____________________________________________________
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:06:41 -0800
From: Richard Mead <rmead@cybergate.com>
Subject: Nov & Dec archives are in
The "Best of Trickle-L" section of the Microirrigation Forum now has
documented
archived discussions that occurred on Trickle-L last November and December.
These discussions include:
-Deficit Irrigation of Citrus
-Drip Irrigation Manuals
-SDI downtime maintenance
-Determining DU for existing SDI systems
-Gypsum saturated water
-Calculating the length of pipe laterals
-Landscape water consumption per household
-Minute or Ultra-low microirrigation
-Placement of tensiometers
-Removing iron from irrigation water
-Water Uniformity and Root Growth
-SDI on golf greens/athletic fields
-Trickle-L Assessment
-Water Conditioners
If you have web access*, orient your browser to:
http://www.cybergate.com/~rmead/best.html
I have created hyperlinked references (http://....) with actual hyperlinked
text, such that if someone had referenced a web site, one can click on that
referenced web site within the archived document and go right to it.
Richard Mead
Trickle-L & MIF owner/manager
p.s.
* If you do NOT have web access, let me know personally at
>rmead@cybergate.com<
and I could cut and paste you the desired archive and send it to you via
email.
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Tue Jan 14 12:28 EST 1997
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:29:41 -0600
Message-Id: <199701141729.AA20859@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 703
Contents:
Re: SDI for field corn, reply to Blake Sanden (FLamm@oznet.ksu.edu (Freddie Lamm))
Date: 13 Jan 97 10:13:28 CST
From: FLamm@oznet.ksu.edu (Freddie Lamm)
Subject: Re: SDI for field corn, reply to Blake Sanden
Blake Sanden said:
Is this permanent SDI on corn? What is the rotation?
Freddie replied: YES and CONTINUOS CORN.
Blake said: It's hard to see how you make it pay. Do you have a
crop/system budget you can share with the rest of us?
Freddie replied: My work is research, so initially, we wanted to
evaluate the technology and **then** see if other factors (Economics,
Environment, Water constraints) would affect its adoption. How can
we make it work??? This is a developed and in many cases
overdeveloped irrigation region. Many surface irrigated fields are
being converted to center pivot sprinklers. So our economic
assumptions begin with an existing pumping plant pumping from
excellent quality groundwater. We assume 5ft dripline spacing for
30-inch corn rows. We assume a typical suqre 160 acres, which allows
a full size 125 acre C Pivot and 160 acres of SDI. **THAT IS A KEY
ASSUMPTION**. The dryland alternative for the CP corners is fallow
wheat. The fields are low slope and we can divide the SDI system
into 4 zones. The CP lasts 20 years and the SDI system lasts 10
years and we assume no salvage value for either system. The corn
yield is 190 bu/acre at $2.50/bu and equal for both systems. We
assume only 10% water savings with SDI. We are using drip tape with
$.03/ft price.
With those basic assumptions, the investment cost
numbers crunch out to about $539/acre for the SDI system and
$326/acre for the CP. The SDI system has more income because of no
dryland acres. The economics with these base assuptions give the CP
a $22/acre advantage each year. However, the economics are quite
sensitive to the assumptions. Increasing the SDI system life from
10-15 years makes a breakeven scenario. Our system has been in 8
years now with little performance degradation. Going back to the
base assumptions and changing yield to 214 bu/acre results in a
breakeven scenario. Good corn producers are often exceeding 200
bu/acre in our area. Changing the field size to a smaller unit makes
the CP become more costly per acre but doesn't have much effect on
the SDI per acre costs. When field size is less than 80 acres SDI
systems can economically compare to CPs with the other base
assumptions.
You may not find the assumptions appropriate for your area, and
that's OK, but they are not unrealistic for our area. In fact I was
at a meeting of some producers currently interested in SDI, and they
claimed our assumptions were not bold enough. This whole economic
thread was hashed out on Trickle-L about a year ago and I'll stand by
my statements then that there is no one-size-fits-all answer. The
complete document is 14 pages and is too big to post to Trickle-L
However, I will postal mail a copy to those who want it if you will post a
request to flamm@oznet.ksu.edu. Send your name and mailing address.
Don't clutter up trickle-l with this reprint request.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Freddie Lamm *
Research Agricultural Engineer *** o
KSU Northwest Research-Extension Center ***** /|\
105 Experiment Farm Road *******\\
Colby, Kansas 67701-1697 *********
Ph. 913-462-6281 ***********
FAX 913-462-2315 *************
Email:flamm@oznet.ksu.edu It's all downhill from here.
------ THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ, THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ. ------
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Thu Jan 16 14:34 EST 1997
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:33:43 -0600
Message-Id: <199701161933.AA07811@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 704
Contents:
Piezometers and lysimeters (Paul Reynolds <PREYNOLD@tnrcc.state.tx.us>)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:47:16 -0600
From: Paul Reynolds <PREYNOLD@tnrcc.state.tx.us>
Subject: Piezometers and lysimeters
Hi all,
I am needing some information pertaining to costs and installation
standards of piezometers and lysimeters. If any of you are venders
and would be interested in submitting bids, contact me via personal
E-mail and I will get back with you ASAP.
Also, I need information on training for the installation and sampling of
these. Would anyone have any information for training sessions in
Texas?
We are working on a federal project, in NE Texas, that is intended to
evaluate the implementation of BMP's on confined animal feeding
operations (CAFO) in that part of the state. Due to federal monies
involved, all individuals have to be trained and certified in the installation
and sampling of the particular method we use.
Thanks for you time.
adios
PS- I'm trying to access 3 lists with one E-Mail. I hope this does not
cause any problems.
Paul Reynolds
preynold@smtpgate.tnrcc.state.tx.us
Agronomist
TNRCC
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Fri Jan 17 16:59 EST 1997
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:58:25 -0600
Message-Id: <199701172158.AA12075@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 705
Contents:
PLC Equipment ("Jerry Neufeld" <jneufeld@fs.scs.unr.edu>)
Hooking Watermarks To Dataloggers (Irrometer@aol.com)
Re:Program for.. Positioning of tensiometers (gfreites@sagi.ucv.edu.ve (Gonzalo Freites))
Delaying bloom set w/microsprinklers ("W. Bryan Smith" <wsmth@clemson.edu>)
Re: Hooking Watermarks To Dataloggers (ges@owt.com (Marty Grogan))
Re:Program for.. Positioning of tensiometers (oster@mail.ucr.edu)
Re:Program for.. Positioning of tensiometers (Trevor Finch <rsne@mpx.com.au>)
Re: Piezometers and lysimeters (Irrometer@aol.com)
Re: Hooking Watermarks To Dataloggers (ges@owt.com (Marty Grogan))
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 09:25:35 PST
From: "Jerry Neufeld" <jneufeld@fs.scs.unr.edu>
Subject: PLC Equipment
Does anyone know who I can talk to, or where I can go to find some
information about Allan Bradley progammable logic control equipment?
thanks,
Jerry Neufeld
jerry@scs.unr.edu
113 Carson Road, #2
Battle Mountain, NV 89820
(702) 635-5565
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:25:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Irrometer@aol.com
Subject: Hooking Watermarks To Dataloggers
Greetings from Southern California with its mountains
capped in snow on this clear winter morning. Recently
Larry Parsons asked about various ways to link the
Watermark to a Campbell Scientific datalogger and
a couple of replies (including mine) suggested that the
best bet was to contact Campbell. A recent reply from
Marty Grogan provided some information on his suggestion
as to a circuit which could be used. I have not seen
any response from Campbell yet but would still suggest
that they are the correct source for this information.
If DC power is used as the excitation, it must be carefully
timed so as to prevent bubbling on the sensor electrodes.
Further, Campbell routinely outfits the Watermark with
blocking capacitors to prevent sensor electrode damage
which could be caused by any current leakage from the
electronic interface at the datalogger. To avoid any
confusion which may have been caused by Grogan's
remarks on "non-linear results" and "calibration", we
would suggest that users of the Watermark with a Campbell
datalogger seek guidance first from Campbell Scientific,
whose engineers are very familiar with any issues of
"non-linearity" or "calibration", or from our company as
the manufacturer of the Watermark sensor.
Regards, Bill Pogue, Irrometer Company, Inc.
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 03:13:03 -0400
From: gfreites@sagi.ucv.edu.ve (Gonzalo Freites)
Subject: Re:Program for.. Positioning of tensiometers
>Dear Trevor Finch
Could you send more information about that program..How can I get it.
Thanks in advance
Gonzalo Freites
Universidad Central de Venezuela
We use an excellent programme that runs various models (including
>Richardsons) to predict water flow through soil profiles with different
>irrigation regimes.
>
>It allows for varying...
>
> soil layers
> the model assumptions
> the application regime (volume and frequency)
>
>It was designed for graduate students, so has an excellent help
>system/tutorial, but we find it very usefull for commercial design. It
>certainly beats solving Richardson's equation ever again. Their site is at:
>
>
>http://www.greenhat.com
>----
>Trevor Finch
>Research Services New England
>8/16 Nicholson St, Balmain NSW 2041 Australia
>email: rsne@mpx.com.au
>tel: +61 (2) 9810 3563
>fax: +61 (2) 9810 3323
>----
>
>
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:12:54 -0500
From: "W. Bryan Smith" <wsmth@clemson.edu>
Subject: Delaying bloom set w/microsprinklers
I recently had a request for information concerning delaying bloom
set (or "bloom retardation") using microsprinklers. Could anyone
provide any information or references on this topic?
Many thanks in advance!
Bryan
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
W. Bryan Smith
Area Extension Agent - Irrigation / Water Quality
Clemson Extension Service
P.O. Box 160
Newberry, South Carolina 29108
USA
Office: 803 276-1091 FAX: 803 276-1095
Internet: wsmth@clemson.edu
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
All opinions are my own and not reflective of the
policies of Clemson University or the Cooperative
Extension Service.
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:48:38 -0800
From: ges@owt.com (Marty Grogan)
Subject: Re: Hooking Watermarks To Dataloggers
>Greetings from Southern California with its mountains
>capped in snow on this clear winter morning. Recently
>Larry Parsons asked about various ways to link the
>Watermark to a Campbell Scientific datalogger and
>a couple of replies (including mine) suggested that the
>best bet was to contact Campbell. A recent reply from
>Marty Grogan provided some information on his suggestion
>as to a circuit which could be used.
To Bill and others on the list:
I only intended to relate a bare minimum of information about connecting a
resistance type sensor to a data logger. Many factors must be taken into
account to obtain reliable results.
Although I do not personally have extensive experience with these devices, I
have discussed their application with individuals who have not only used
them but have distributed them as well.
I concur with Bill's recommendation that anyone who wants to reliably obtain
accurate information using electronic metrication seek competent advice from
qualified experts.
M. G.
Marty Grogan, BSAE, MSEE
Grogan Engineering Services
1328 Rathwood Ave.
Richland, WA 99352
(509)627-3083 (voice and FAX)
ges@oneworld.owt.com
Specializing in Systems Integration Services for Agriculture: Automation,
Telemetry, Programming, Maintenance, Remote Sensing and Project Delivery.
GES--The technology buckstopper.
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:31:16 -0600
From: oster@mail.ucr.edu
Subject: Re:Program for.. Positioning of tensiometers
Is it possible that the name Richardson should be Richards instead? Soil
physists in the U.S. have named the differential equation describing water
flux in soils in response to potential gradients, the Richards equation. Dr.
L.A. Richards has been recognized for sevAt 06:35 PM 1/16/97 -0600, you wrote:
>>Dear Trevor Finch
>
> Could you send more information about that program..How can I get it.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
> Gonzalo Freites
>
>Universidad Central de Venezuela
>
>
>We use an excellent programme that runs various models (including
>>Richardsons) to predict water flow through soil profiles with different
>>irrigation regimes.
>>
>>It allows for varying...
>>
>> soil layers
>> the model assumptions
>> the application regime (volume and frequency)
>>
>>It was designed for graduate students, so has an excellent help
>>system/tutorial, but we find it very usefull for commercial design. It
>>certainly beats solving Richardson's equation ever again. Their site is at:
>>
>>
>>http://www.greenhat.com
>>----
>>Trevor Finch
>>Research Services New England
>>8/16 Nicholson St, Balmain NSW 2041 Australia
>>email: rsne@mpx.com.au
>>tel: +61 (2) 9810 3563
>>fax: +61 (2) 9810 3323
>>----
>>
>>
>
>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 18:20:00 +1100 (EST)
From: Trevor Finch <rsne@mpx.com.au>
Subject: Re:Program for.. Positioning of tensiometers
Modelling water flow through soil profiles with varying irrigation regimes
and soil properties.
Greenhat software have a web site at...
www.greenhat.com
or send an email to...
sales@greenhat.com
----
Trevor Finch
Research Services New England
8/16 Nicholson St, Balmain NSW 2041 Australia
email: rsne@mpx.com.au
tel: +61 (2) 9810 3563
fax: +61 (2) 9810 3323
----
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:40:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Irrometer@aol.com
Subject: Re: Piezometers and lysimeters
In a message dated 97-01-16 14:28:01 EST, you write:
>From: PREYNOLD@tnrcc.state.tx.us (Paul Reynolds)
>Sender: trickle-l@unl.edu
>Reply-to: trickle-l@unl.edu
>To: trickle-l@unl.edu (Multiple recipients of list)
>
>Hi all,
>
>I am needing some information pertaining to costs and installation
>standards of piezometers and lysimeters. If any of you are venders
>and would be interested in submitting bids, contact me via personal
>E-mail and I will get back with you ASAP.
Dear Paul:
We manufacture a non-hitech suction lysimeter which is used
primarily by drip irrigators to manage "fertigation" systems
(liquid nitrogen fed to the crop through the drip system). But
they have also been used pretty extensively by University
people and engineering consultants to sample soil water for
purposes likely very close to yours (soil water chemistry
under and adjacent to a feedlot). I've copied a couple of these
fellows here at University of California (Riverside)--Dr. Jim Oster
and Ralph Strohman---who may be of help to you. Also,
I can fax your message to our rep in Texas who may know
of someone locally that may be interested in the work you
are seeking to get done. Can you give me your address
and phone? Hope this is helpful to you.
Regards, Bill Pogue, Irrometer Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:07:58 -0800
From: ges@owt.com (Marty Grogan)
Subject: Re: Hooking Watermarks To Dataloggers
>Greetings from Southern California with its mountains
>capped in snow on this clear winter morning. Recently
>Larry Parsons asked about various ways to link the
>Watermark to a Campbell Scientific datalogger and
>a couple of replies (including mine) suggested that the
>best bet was to contact Campbell. A recent reply from
>Marty Grogan provided some information on his suggestion
>as to a circuit which could be used.
To Bill and others on the list:
I only intended to relate a bare minimum of information about connecting a
resistance type sensor to a data logger. Many factors must be taken into
account to obtain reliable results.
Although I do not personally have extensive experience with these devices, I
have discussed their application with individuals who have not only used
them but have distributed them as well.
I concur with Bill's recommendation that anyone who wants to reliably obtain
accurate information using electronic metrication seek competent advice from
qualified experts.
M. G.
Marty Grogan, BSAE, MSEE
Grogan Engineering Services
1328 Rathwood Ave.
Richland, WA 99352
(509)627-3083 (voice and FAX)
ges@oneworld.owt.com
Specializing in Systems Integration Services for Agriculture: Automation,
Telemetry, Programming, Maintenance, Remote Sensing and Project Delivery.
GES--The technology buckstopper.
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Sat Jan 18 16:56 EST 1997
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:58:55 -0600
Message-Id: <199701182158.AA19863@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 706
Contents:
DRIP IRRIGATION OF MATURE TREES ("Stephen W. Smith" <swsmith@aquaengr.com>)
Re: Piezometers and lysimeters -Reply (Paul Reynolds <PREYNOLD@tnrcc.state.tx.us>)
Re: Delaying bloom set w/microsprinklers (FLamm@oznet.ksu.edu (Freddie Lamm))
Regulations and requirement (Paul Reynolds <PREYNOLD@tnrcc.state.tx.us>)
RE: Delaying bloom set w/microsprinklers (Jody Worthington <jworth@our-town.com>)
FW: DRIP IRRIGATION OF MATURE TREES ("Thurston, Anna" <athursto@ci.tacoma.wa.us>)
RE: Delaying bloom set w/microsprinklers ("R. Carian" <grapegrower@earthlink.net>)
Re: Regulations and requirement (Leonard Ornstein <lenornst@pipeline.com>)
Re: Delaying bloom set w/microsprinklers (Robert Carian <grapegrower@earthlink.net>)
no sub (RKI@aol.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:39:14 -0700
From: "Stephen W. Smith" <swsmith@aquaengr.com>
Subject: DRIP IRRIGATION OF MATURE TREES
Any experience or brainstorming of the following situation is welcome:
Circumstance: 30-year-old cottonwood trees have historically received
adequate moisture from a high water table. The water table has
generally dropped and fluctuates during the growing season. The trees
are under substantial stress during periods of high
evapotranspiration. We don't want to further stress or otherwise risk
loss of the trees. The plan is to supplementally irrigate the trees.
Sprinkler irrigation is not desired in this case because germination
of weeds and undesirable grasses would be encouraged. We prefer to
not wet the soil surface with irrigation. The soil varies spacially
with sand/gravel in some areas and loam soil in other areas.
The irrigation concept: we are considering the provision of
supplemental water using drip irrigation. A number of emitter hose
products are being considered which utilize a factory-installed
emitter at a uniform spacing. The emitter hose would be pulled into
the soil with a vibratory plow at a depth of 4 to 8 inches. The
average lateral spacing, although irregular given the tree density and
other obstructions, is expected to be close. (An in-situ experiment
will soon be started to evaluate the wetted perimeter that develops
from an emitter with these soils.)
Questions for discussion or comment:
1) Any experience in the group with the conversion of large,
existing, mature, trees to a drip irrigation regime?
2) Any concerns about significant root damage to large existing
trees when pipe is installed at the 4 to 8 inch depth?
3) Any information available concerning the crop coefficient of
mature cottonwoods?
Regards,
Stephen W. Smith
Aqua Engineering, Inc.
Fort Collins, Colorado
internet e-mail address: swsmith@aquaengr.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:24:52 -0600
From: Paul Reynolds <PREYNOLD@tnrcc.state.tx.us>
Subject: Re: Piezometers and lysimeters -Reply
Mr. Bill Pogue,
Thanks for your response. My address and phone number is listed
below.
Paul Reynolds (MC-147)
TNRCC
Ground-Water Protection Team
P.O. Box 13087
Austin TX 78711-3087
phone: 512/239-4508
fax: 512/239-4450
One of these days I'll figure out how to get this information automatically
attached to my out going mail.
thanks
preynold
Date: 17 Jan 97 15:51:40 CST
From: FLamm@oznet.ksu.edu (Freddie Lamm)
Subject: Re: Delaying bloom set w/microsprinklers
Bryan: You might check the Proceedings of the 5th International
Microirrigation Congress available from ASAE at $US 59.00 from
hq@asae.org. The articles that comes to mind in that proceedings is
two by Richard Funt from Ohio on pages 470 and 477 and also one on
fruit coloring on Page 835 by some scientists in China.
Your request is totally out of my expertise, so these papers may not
fill your needs, but it may be worth a look. Richard Mead may have
brief abstracts on his WEB page. However, you may need to look at
the whole paper. The proceedings has 156 total papers by 313
different authors from 28 different countries.
Freddie
(No, I don't get a royalt on sales)
*
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Freddie Lamm *
Research Agricultural Engineer *** o
KSU Northwest Research-Extension Center ***** /|\
105 Experiment Farm Road *******\\
Colby, Kansas 67701-1697 *********
Ph. 913-462-6281 ***********
FAX 913-462-2315 *************
Email:flamm@oznet.ksu.edu It's all downhill from here.
------ THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ, THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ. ------
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:48:49 -0600
From: Paul Reynolds <PREYNOLD@tnrcc.state.tx.us>
Subject: Regulations and requirement
I need some assistance with some problems and questions and I'm
hoping that some of you drip guroos can help.
I am an Agronomist with the Texas Natural Resource Conservation
Commission in Austin Texas. We regulated entities that dispose of
waste water in a wide array of techniques. Drip irrigation is becoming
very popular here in central Texas. The topography of the area is
characterised as rolling and steep with limestone outcrops and very
shollow soils.
My question to the group is, 'What are the limitations for drip in these
situations?' A perfect example of the scenario that I deal with regularly
is as follows.
An entity is requesting to dispose of wastewater via drip on a soil
classified as Brackett (BlD). The soils of the site are characterised by
1foot of clay underlain by a course caliche material. The surface is at
least 30% gravel content by volume with very little vegetation. The C
horizon (12-30 inches) is characterised as interbedded soft limestone
and marl. There is evidence of redox and anaerobic conditions within
this horizon. Root penetration into the C horizon is virtually non existant.
Very limited at best.
What would ultimately happen if the dripper lines were placed in the C
horizon? Remember, vegetation is practically nonexistant. What would
happen if the lines were laid on the surface or at a 6 inch depth?
The application rate would be somewhere in the range of 0.10
gal/ft2/day.
My feeling is that there would not be any problems in the short term.
However, my knowledge of drip systems is so limited that I am having
problems dealing with long term effects. These systems are set up for
a constant application.
thanks,
paul reynolds
agronomist
tnrcc
preynold@smtpgate.tnrcc.state.tx.us
This individual wants to lay the dripper lines in the soil at least a foot
below the surface.
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:57:20 -0600
From: Jody Worthington <jworth@our-town.com>
Subject: RE: Delaying bloom set w/microsprinklers
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC049A.613A0BC0
Bryan -
I think you will find references to bloom delay in articles by Arlo =
Richardson in Utah, and later Bill Lipe at the Texas Experiment Station =
in Lubbock. These are in the Journal of the American Society for Hort =
Sci. (My journals are packed away or I'd look them up for you.) We =
also did work at the experiment station in Stephenville, TX, but I did =
not publish the results.
The procedures used involve reducing heat units after the required =
chilling has been satisfied. We did this by placing microsprayers in =
the tree about the height of the canopy top. A thermostat was used to =
control the system so that it only operated when temperatures were above =
45 degrees F. When operating, the sprinklers were on for something like =
6 seconds and off for about 60 seconds to allow the water applied to =
evaporate thus keeping the buds cool. In theory you ought to be able to =
reduce the temperatures to close to wet bulb temperatures.
We did this work some 10 years ago, and the controllers we had then =
were pretty crude. I am sure there are slicker ways to set it up now. =
We had trouble with coverage in the canopy, and this was particularly =
true when the wind was blowing. We didn't do much around the outside of =
the canopy, but we could delay bloom about 7 days in the center of the =
trees. I think they did slightly better than this in the drier western =
climates, but you may not do as well as we did in the east. =
Unfortunately, our average bloom for peaches is about March 15, and the =
frosts & freezes that take us out totally have been those that occur in =
April. With the technology of the time, we concluded that it was not =
worth the expense of installation.
If you have more questions, I'll be glad to discuss them with you.
Joe Worthington
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC049A.613A0BC0
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC049A.613A0BC0--
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 15:28:00 PST
From: "Thurston, Anna" <athursto@ci.tacoma.wa.us>
Subject: FW: DRIP IRRIGATION OF MATURE TREES
Hi Steve,
Surface application of water at your site is not likely to encourage weed
and grass growth much more than subsurface irrigation will. If the plant
(weed or grass) is there and it has any kind of a root system (4-6" depth),
it will grow more vigorously with the availability of water. What *would*
invite significant weed growth is if you tilled the soil or disturbed the
surface in some other way.
If there is a dense stand of (turf) grass or ground cover already, you
should have fewer problems with weed invasion. 3-4" of organic mulch (not
including gravel) would serve the same purpose and might be the ultimate
answer that your client is seeking - you will have reduced the amount of
heat on the soil and roots, thus reducing the evaporative stress of the
tree. Depending on the mulch you use, you will have also reduced evaporation
from the soil (some living mulches use less water than turf - see Toni Koski
at CSU). A mulch, living or otherwise, will also help to keep the weeds
down.
Installation of pipe at any depth underground might as well be the same as
opening a trench. If you insert pipe at a tangent to the tree, you will end
up cutting the roots of the tree, a majority of which are in the top 8-10
inches of soil. Especially if the roots are cut within the dripline of the
tree, you run the risk of additional damage. Even outside of the dripline
you run the risk of root damage. The feeder roots of poplar trees,
especially P. sargentii, are known to have roots that wander well outside of
the dripline; technically to a length that is equivalent to the height of
the tree, but realistically even farther than that.
At best, you could insert your drip lines in a radial pattern around the
tree, but you are still likely to cause some damage because the roots
*never* grow in a straight-out radial pattern themselves. You would want to
start your insertion at the dripline in this case and move outward,
meandering around any large roots that you come upon. Is it possible that
your line feeder can make this kind of turn? This would also equate to a
significant amount of pipe, and a tortuous delivery path.
Ultimately you may want to weigh the cost/benefit of your perceived need**
to irrigate these trees against their potential towards short and long term
decay from the faster growth rate that you will see with available water.
Faster growth is generally equivalent to weaker branches which are less
tolerant of storm damage and insect invasion. Cottonwoods are notoriously
short-lived as well. At 30 years, these trees are 3/5th's of the way to the
average point of senescence common in the Cottonwood species.
**Realistically, all trees/plants do better when they are allowed to grow as
they would in their natural habitat. Cottonwoods are well adapted to being
somewhat dry in the heat of the summer. Obviously the environment where
these trees are situated has changed. If I had to irrigate, I'd do it with
surface application only (moveable impact rotors?) during the periods when
the heat stress is beyond their rate of ET. Otherwise, I would be thinking
about a better species of tree to plant in the same location. You could get
these started while the cottonwoods are still alive so that you don't lose
the immediate value of the existing trees.
You may want to contact a tree specialist in Colorado to verify all of
this. Does Ft. Collins still have an have an arborist on staff (Tim )? Steve
Day, who is a member of ALCC also knows his stuff, or someone who is a
member of the International Arboriculture Association, which has an office
in Denver. Good luck.
Anna Thurston, Water Conservation Specialist
(206)502-8723 // FAX:(206)502-8694
<athursto@ci.tacoma.wa.us>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 22:16:13 -0800
From: "R. Carian" <grapegrower@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Delaying bloom set w/microsprinklers
the reason I asked "delay bloom on what crop is because I have over 30
years using sprinklers to alter bud break and harvest time. In fact, the
recent works done on vines over the last 10 years in isreal and in CA
were both based on my input. If you would rather ask a professor with
littler real world knowledge, have at it, No one has used sprinklers (or
micros) for this purpose more than myself.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
An IBM user once told me that he has seen the light, and the IBM is
better. I told him he must be confused...The only light he saw was the
glow of the overheating pentium in the darkness of ignorance.
-SenorJuan (me)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:17:54 -0400
From: Leonard Ornstein <lenornst@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Regulations and requirement
Paul:
If I read you correctly, the intent here is to dispose of the waste-water,
with no plans to intentionally support any crops.
If the disposal rate will be reasonably uniform, intentionally adding a
crop of the RIGHT KIND, ought to ensure lon-term stability and success.
The crop should be one which will penetrate clay and caliche and is
compatible with the impurities in your waste stream. While you may not be
able to find an agricultural crop of any value for this purpose, there must
be wild "weeds" with appropriate growth habits. Check with local Ecologists
and with foreign Ecologists who are familiar with similar habitats.
Len Ornstein
>I need some assistance with some problems and questions and I'm
>hoping that some of you drip guroos can help.
>
>I am an Agronomist with the Texas Natural Resource Conservation
>Commission in Austin Texas. We regulated entities that dispose of
>waste water in a wide array of techniques. Drip irrigation is becoming
>very popular here in central Texas. The topography of the area is
>characterised as rolling and steep with limestone outcrops and very
>shollow soils.
>
>My question to the group is, 'What are the limitations for drip in these
>situations?' A perfect example of the scenario that I deal with regularly
>is as follows.
>
>An entity is requesting to dispose of wastewater via drip on a soil
>classified as Brackett (BlD). The soils of the site are characterised by
>1foot of clay underlain by a course caliche material. The surface is at
>least 30% gravel content by volume with very little vegetation. The C
>horizon (12-30 inches) is characterised as interbedded soft limestone
>and marl. There is evidence of redox and anaerobic conditions within
>this horizon. Root penetration into the C horizon is virtually non existant.
>Very limited at best.
>
>What would ultimately happen if the dripper lines were placed in the C
>horizon? Remember, vegetation is practically nonexistant. What would
>happen if the lines were laid on the surface or at a 6 inch depth?
>
>The application rate would be somewhere in the range of 0.10
>gal/ft2/day.
>
>My feeling is that there would not be any problems in the short term.
>However, my knowledge of drip systems is so limited that I am having
>problems dealing with long term effects. These systems are set up for
>a constant application.
>
>thanks,
>
>paul reynolds
>agronomist
>tnrcc
>
>preynold@smtpgate.tnrcc.state.tx.us
>
>This individual wants to lay the dripper lines in the soil at least a foot
>below the surface.
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 97 12:06:17 -0800
From: Robert Carian <grapegrower@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Delaying bloom set w/microsprinklers
Delaying boom st on what type of crop?
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:16:52 -0500 (EST)
From: RKI@aol.com
Subject: no sub
unsubscribe
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Sun Jan 19 16:57 EST 1997
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:59:24 -0600
Message-Id: <199701192159.AA04941@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 707
Contents:
(nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman))
Re: Regulations and requirement (David Venhuizen <waterguy@ix.netcom.com>)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 20:14:22 -0800 (PST)
From: nsterman@ucsd.edu (Nan Sterman)
Subject:
unsubscribe
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:50:13 -0600
From: David Venhuizen <waterguy@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Regulations and requirement
Paul Reynolds wrote:
>
> I need some assistance with some problems and questions and I'm
> hoping that some of you drip guroos can help.
>
> I am an Agronomist with the Texas Natural Resource Conservation
> Commission in Austin Texas. We regulated entities that dispose of
> waste water in a wide array of techniques. Drip irrigation is becoming
> very popular here in central Texas. The topography of the area is
> characterised as rolling and steep with limestone outcrops and very
> shollow soils.
>
> My question to the group is, 'What are the limitations for drip in these
> situations?' A perfect example of the scenario that I deal with regularly
> is as follows.
>
> An entity is requesting to dispose of wastewater via drip on a soil
> classified as Brackett (BlD). The soils of the site are characterised by
> 1foot of clay underlain by a course caliche material. The surface is at
> least 30% gravel content by volume with very little vegetation. The C
> horizon (12-30 inches) is characterised as interbedded soft limestone
> and marl. There is evidence of redox and anaerobic conditions within
> this horizon. Root penetration into the C horizon is virtually non existant.
> Very limited at best.
>
> What would ultimately happen if the dripper lines were placed in the C
> horizon? Remember, vegetation is practically nonexistant. What would
> happen if the lines were laid on the surface or at a 6 inch depth?
>
> The application rate would be somewhere in the range of 0.10
> gal/ft2/day.
>
> My feeling is that there would not be any problems in the short term.
> However, my knowledge of drip systems is so limited that I am having
> problems dealing with long term effects. These systems are set up for
> a constant application.
>
> thanks,
>
> paul reynolds
> agronomist
> tnrcc
>
> preynold@smtpgate.tnrcc.state.tx.us
>
> This individual wants to lay the dripper lines in the soil at least a foot
> below the surface.
Hi Paul,
First of all, why would anyone WANT to place drip lines 12" deep in
Central Texas?! Especially in a situation such as you describe, where
this is at the top of the C horizon! This is just throwing away a lot
of the water from which he/she could be realizing a significant
irrigation benefit, as well as circumventing maximum benefit of the best
treatment zone--the near-surface root zone. Don't allow people to
mis-apply the technology like this!
As to the general impacts, see my paper on soil treatment mechanisms at
http://klingon.util.utexas.edu. I may have already given you a copy of
this.
Best regards -- David Venhuizen, P.E.
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Mon Jan 20 17:00 EST 1997
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:02:59 -0600
Message-Id: <199701202202.AA03709@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 708
Contents:
Organic farming with SDI ("Joseph C. Henggeler" <j-henggeler@tamu.edu>)
Re: DRIP IRRIGATION OF MATURE TREES (Rodney Ruskin <geoflow1@slip.net>)
Re: Regulations and requirement (Rodney Ruskin <geoflow1@slip.net>)
RE: Delaying bloom set w/microsprinklers ("W. Bryan Smith" <wsmth@clemson.edu>)
Re: DRIP IRRIGATION OF MATURE TREES ("W. Bryan Smith" <wsmth@clemson.edu>)
Re: Regulations and requirement -Reply (Paul Reynolds <PREYNOLD@tnrcc.state.tx.us>)
(Martha Beller <martha@ada.lib.id.us>)
Re: Regulations and requirement -Reply -Reply (Nancy E Roe <n-roe@tamu.edu>)
Re: Weed control with SDI???? (FLamm@oznet.ksu.edu (Freddie Lamm))
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:01:08 -0600
From: "Joseph C. Henggeler" <j-henggeler@tamu.edu>
Subject: Organic farming with SDI
Does any one have information on organic fertilizers for SDI? I am aware
of article by Schwankl & McGourty in CA Agriculture in 1992, is there
other information out there?
The application is for a grower with 17 acres of organic cotton in Terry
County in the High Plains of Texas.
By the way, this grower mentions that weed control, other than for Silver
Leaf Night Shade, is great with SDI since weed germination is down.
This observation seems to be in keeping with the literature.
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:13:12 -0800
From: Rodney Ruskin <geoflow1@slip.net>
Subject: Re: DRIP IRRIGATION OF MATURE TREES
At 04:06 PM 1/17/97 -0600, Stephen W. Smith wrote:
>Any experience or brainstorming of the following situation is welcome:
>
>Circumstance: 30-year-old cottonwood trees have historically received
>adequate moisture from a high water table. The water table has
>generally dropped and fluctuates during the growing season. The trees
>are under substantial stress during periods of high
>evapotranspiration. We don't want to further stress or otherwise risk
>loss of the trees. The plan is to supplementally irrigate the trees.
> Sprinkler irrigation is not desired in this case because germination
>of weeds and undesirable grasses would be encouraged. We prefer to
>not wet the soil surface with irrigation. The soil varies spacially
>with sand/gravel in some areas and loam soil in other areas.
etc
>
Yes - many growers have successfully converted mature fruit and nut trees to
SDI without any serious trauma. For most trees cutting roots during the
dormant season is acceptable,
However you do not give us enough information about the height of the water
table to respond to your questions. In general to keep the surface dry one
would bury the drip line at about 18" depth. Secondly to get a wide
distribution of the water one would need to pulse the system with the
maximum length of irrigation time on sand gravel being 1 hour. 30 minutes
may be even better. I would suggest that you design for the spread on sand
gravel, then the wider spread on the loam sois will not do any damage. As
this is a supplementary irrigation need to keep down costs you can probably
use one line per row of trees and fairly wide dripper spacing.
Regards,
Rodney Ruskin
geoflow1@slip.net
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:13:20 -0800
From: Rodney Ruskin <geoflow1@slip.net>
Subject: Re: Regulations and requirement
At 11:00 PM 1/17/97 -0600, Paul Reynolds wrote:
>I need some assistance with some problems and questions and I'm
>hoping that some of you drip guroos can help.
>
>I am an Agronomist with the Texas Natural Resource Conservation
>Commission in Austin Texas. We regulated entities that dispose of
>waste water in a wide array of techniques. Drip irrigation is becoming
>very popular here in central Texas. The topography of the area is
>characterised as rolling and steep with limestone outcrops and very
>shollow soils.
>
>My question to the group is, 'What are the limitations for drip in these
>situations?' A perfect example of the scenario that I deal with regularly
>is as follows.
>
>An entity is requesting to dispose of wastewater via drip on a soil
>classified as Brackett (BlD). The soils of the site are characterised by
>1foot of clay underlain by a course caliche material. The surface is at
>least 30% gravel content by volume with very little vegetation. The C
>horizon (12-30 inches) is characterised as interbedded soft limestone
>and marl. There is evidence of redox and anaerobic conditions within
>this horizon. Root penetration into the C horizon is virtually non existant.
>Very limited at best.
>
>What would ultimately happen if the dripper lines were placed in the C
>horizon? Remember, vegetation is practically nonexistant. What would
>happen if the lines were laid on the surface or at a 6 inch depth?
>
>The application rate would be somewhere in the range of 0.10
>gal/ft2/day.
>
>My feeling is that there would not be any problems in the short term.
>However, my knowledge of drip systems is so limited that I am having
>problems dealing with long term effects. These systems are set up for
>a constant application.
>
>thanks,
>
>paul reynolds
>agronomist
>tnrcc
>
>preynold@smtpgate.tnrcc.state.tx.us
>
>This individual wants to lay the dripper lines in the soil at least a foot
>below the surface.
>
You are raising some difficult questions.
The idea of wastewater disposal in soil with SDI is to complete the water
treatment in the soil. With anaerobic conditions this will not happen
efficiently, if at all.
The dripper emits water at a point. Again the wastewater contains bacteria
which will multiply under anaerobic conditions and may well form a
biological mat (schmutzdecke) around the emitter eliminating lateral
movement and thereby force the water to explode upwards to the surface along
the line of least resistance formed by the plough which has inserted the
tube into the ground. Finally sandstone can leach away leading to fissures
which could carry the wastewater down to the groundwater.
May I suggest that the top soil is modified to permit turf or tress to grow.
Then the drip line is buried at a depth of 6 inches, where microbial
activity will be at its best and the water will be cleaned up within quite a
short distance. Under seasons of high rainfall ther may be surfacing of
water at the edge of the field at the lowest point on the perimeter. Monitor
this effluent to ensure that indeed it is clean.
A system was recently installed in Alabama with 2 feet of good alluvial loam
brought in and placed in a mound on top of impenetrability clay using the
technique described above. So far with good results. If you wish please
contact me directly and I will send you the name of the P.E. who did the design.
Dr. Bruce Lesikar of Texas A&M, College Station, 409 845 7451 or fax 847
8828 may be a useful source of advice.
Regards,
Rodney Ruskin
geoflow1@slip.net
Geoflow, Inc.
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:59:42 -0500
From: "W. Bryan Smith" <wsmth@clemson.edu>
Subject: RE: Delaying bloom set w/microsprinklers
> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:21:26 -0600
> Reply-to: <trickle-l@unl.edu>
> From: "R. Carian" <grapegrower@earthlink.net>
>
> the reason I asked "delay bloom on what crop is because I have over
> 30 years using sprinklers to alter bud break and harvest time. In
> fact, the recent works done on vines over the last 10 years in
> isreal and in CA were both based on my input. If you would rather
> ask a professor with littler real world knowledge, have at it, No
> one has used sprinklers (or micros) for this purpose more than
> myself.
>
The crop is small fruit trees, Robert, primarily apples and peaches.
I'd appreciate any input you could provide from your experience.
I haven't replied earlier because my Internet access is through my
office, hence no access over weekends. Sorry for the delay.
Bryan
P.S. Many thanks to Freddie Lamm and Jody Worthington - I'll check
out those references ASAP!
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
W. Bryan Smith
Area Extension Agent - Irrigation / Water Quality
Clemson Extension Service
P.O. Box 160
Newberry, South Carolina 29108
USA
Office: 803 276-1091 FAX: 803 276-1095
Internet: wsmth@clemson.edu
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
All opinions are my own and not reflective of the
policies of Clemson University or the Cooperative
Extension Service.
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:19:12 -0500
From: "W. Bryan Smith" <wsmth@clemson.edu>
Subject: Re: DRIP IRRIGATION OF MATURE TREES
Stephen,
We have had good success adding drip irrigation to older peach and
apple orchards here in SC. All of this work has used surface drip
irrigation - mainly due to past successes, concerns about cutting
roots with SDI, and in the past little available info concerning SDI
(lots of these systems were installed 10 to 15 years ago).
The drip tube was placed along the tree row within 6" or 12" of the
trunks to prevent problems with mowing. Various emitter styles -
some in-line, others installed in blank tubing in the field (labor
intensive!). Growers installing these systems reported significant
improvements in production, so much so that they now install these
systems in every new orchard planted.
So, to answer your question, in the case of surface drip, yes, at
least older fruit trees will respond to drip irrigation systems well.
Sorry, no experience with cottonwoods yet (although I have heard
that a company in the state has just installed about 50 acres of drip
on young cottonwoods this year).
I do agree with your weed germination concerns using sprinklers.
Also, since drip provides water to a much smaller area, there is less
water used by grass in the area since only the grass near the water
source can make use of it. This would allow you to provide the same
net amount of water to the trees using a smaller gross application
due to smaller losses to evaporation (sprinklers) and grass uptake.
Good luck with your project. I will check into the cottonwood
project here and forward any info I am able to obtain.
Bryan
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
W. Bryan Smith
Area Extension Agent - Irrigation / Water Quality
Clemson Extension Service
P.O. Box 160
Newberry, South Carolina 29108
USA
Office: 803 276-1091 FAX: 803 276-1095
Internet: wsmth@clemson.edu
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
All opinions are my own and not reflective of the
policies of Clemson University or the Cooperative
Extension Service.
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:58:21 -0600
From: Paul Reynolds <PREYNOLD@tnrcc.state.tx.us>
Subject: Re: Regulations and requirement -Reply
David
Thanks for you response. I do have a copy of your article, however,
I've not been able to do more than skim it.
One of the biggest problems I have to deal with is the nomenclature and
terminology used in the waste disposal industry. The word DISPOSAL
is one of my biggest problems. People look at wastewater as a
incumbrance. I have been trying to convince people that wastewater is
a resource that can equate to positive monies (or at least aesthetically
appealing landscapes) instead of being a disposal headache.
Thanks,
preynold
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:26:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Martha Beller <martha@ada.lib.id.us>
Subject:
unsubscribe
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:40:26 -0600
From: Nancy E Roe <n-roe@tamu.edu>
Subject: Re: Regulations and requirement -Reply -Reply
I agree: why is wasting this water being considered? (I realize the
answer to this is both an economic and a political one.) After all, it is
being used in some places in Texas and in other states. There are a lot
of golf courses that should be using it.
Those of us who deal with recycling organic materials are often teased
because we are trying to change the words, but to get the public to
change their thinking, we need to do that. That is why I prefer to call it
reuse water (also sludge is biosolids and yard waste is yard trimmings,
etc).
On another subject, some comments (but not a real answer) on Joe
Henggeler's question: I visited an organic farm in Florida this week where
they were using fish emulsion in their greenhouse through a drip system.
I was surprised, because that usually has been a problem, as I'm sure
you can imagine. However, apparently some brands have improved their
processing so it will work. I'm sure it would be prohibitively expensive on
a large scale. Some people also add microbial preparations through drip
systems (I know of 150 acres in Florida where that is being done.)
However, they are not strictly organic so they supplement with
conventional nutrients. Joe, I can give you some places the grower may
want to call to inquire about liquids, (if s/he hasn't already) if you e-mail
me personally.
Nancy Roe
Extension Hort Specialist
Texas A&M Research and Extension Center
Stephenville
Date: 20 Jan 97 15:09:52 CST
From: FLamm@oznet.ksu.edu (Freddie Lamm)
Subject: Re: Weed control with SDI????
Someone wrote:
By the way, this grower mentions that weed control, other than for Silver
Leaf Night Shade, is great with SDI since weed germination is down.
This observation seems to be in keeping with the literature.
Freddie asked: I suspect this may be true, but I'd like to be able to
cite some published literature. Cna anyone offer some citations???
Freddie
*
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Freddie Lamm *
Research Agricultural Engineer *** o
KSU Northwest Research-Extension Center ***** /|\
105 Experiment Farm Road *******\\
Colby, Kansas 67701-1697 *********
Ph. 913-462-6281 ***********
FAX 913-462-2315 *************
Email:flamm@oznet.ksu.edu It's all downhill from here.
------ THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ, THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ. ------
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Wed Jan 22 10:43 EST 1997
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:45:35 -0600
Message-Id: <199701221545.AA27988@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 709
Contents:
TRICKLE-L digest 709 NOT RECEIVED
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:07:22 +0200
From: AB4EL <modena@SunSITE.unc.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 709 NOT RECEIVED
TRICKLE-L digest 709 NOT RECEIVED
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Thu Jan 23 10:43 EST 1997
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:45:35 -0600
Message-Id: <199701231545.AA27988@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 710
Contents:
unsubscribe (ericj@gem.co.za (Eric Jooste))
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:07:22 +0200
From: ericj@gem.co.za (Eric Jooste)
Subject: unsubscribe
unsubscribe
--- "Dislexsics of the world - UNTIE ! " ---
>OO< F
(((() ((((((()
(((((() ((((((((((o(((((((()
(((((((\--/(((((((((((((((((((/
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((
(((((((/--\(((((((((((((((((((\
((((() (((((((((((((((((((()
(((() ((((((()
End of Digest
>From root@crcnis1.unl.edu Fri Jan 24 12:04 EST 1997
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:06:39 -0600
Message-Id: <199701241706.AA28254@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Subject: TRICKLE-L digest 711
Contents:
Watermarks and Campbell Dataloggers ("Craig A. Storlie" <storlie@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU>)
Re: DRIP IRRIGATION OF MATURE TREES (Jean <henri@ilink.nis.za>)
Re: DRIP IRRIGATION OF MATURE TREES ("Thurston, Anna" <athursto@ci.tacoma.wa.us>)
Re: Happy 1997 and more (Wally Menke <wallym@ozemail.com.au>)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:44:05 -0500
From: "Craig A. Storlie" <storlie@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU>
Subject: Watermarks and Campbell Dataloggers
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC091A.5DB872A0
I recently came across a 9-page Application Note from Campbell =
concerning WM's and CSI dataloggers. It includes wiring diagrams. If =
anyone is still in need of this info, I'm willing to help. Document is =
dated 3/91. Have you called CSI?
Craig Storlie
Rutgers University
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC091A.5DB872A0
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC091A.5DB872A0--
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:04:43 +0200
From: Jean <henri@ilink.nis.za>
Subject: Re: DRIP IRRIGATION OF MATURE TREES
>At 04:06 PM 1/17/97 -0600, Stephen W. Smith wrote:
>>Any experience or brainstorming of the following situation is welcome:
>>
>>Hi,
>I am surprised that no one has yet pointed out to you that SDI in orchards
etc can become strangled by root growth squeezing closed the softer plastic
tubing.
Also in our experience cutting roots actually results in very active root
regrowth.
Jean/
>
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 14:09:00 PST
From: "Thurston, Anna" <athursto@ci.tacoma.wa.us>
Subject: Re: DRIP IRRIGATION OF MATURE TREES
>SDI in orchards etc. can become strangled by root growth
>cutting roots actually results in very active root regrowth
Both statements are true, although the timing of root pruning and location
of cuts along the length of the root *will* have a dramatic affect upon the
survivability of the tree. The tree in question here is by no means an
orchard tree. Rather, it has never had soil cultivation around it's
far-ranging root system (i.e. 100+ feet from trunk to root tip) and has had
a variable/plentiful water table into which it can grow, and upon which it
has apparently become dependent.
Cottonwoods are notorious for invading a water source, being especially
destructive to structures where that water might accumulate. They are also
noted for root systems that grow near the soil surface (especially where
there is, or was, a high water table). From these roots, which commonly
surface in lawns, you'll get suckering growth, which is one method of
cottonwood colonization and survival. These suckers most commonly grow from
spots that have been damaged or cut.
If a significant percentage of the roots are cut on a 30 year old
*cottonwood* (and I am speaking about cottonwoods only, not all trees) and
these cuts are made within the tree's drip line, you can also expect the
stress level of the tree to increase. If you do this at or beyond the drip
line in the *early* fall, before the tree defoliates, it stands a better
chance of re-establishing enough feeder roots to take it through a mild
winter (one with snow on the ground, or few drying winds), and maybe into
the next growing season. If you were to make your cuts in the spring, the
tree has that much less time to re-establish the number of feeder roots
necessary for survival through an extended stretch of July's hot and
continuously sunny weather. If the tree is already stressed during this
period, I think we can assume that cutting whatever roots the tree has is
going to exacerbate the existing problem.
Irrigators, this Q&A exemplifies why we all need to work with one another
(especially with those outside of our areas of expertise). Irrigators are
good at irrigating, horticulturalists and arborists are good at growing and
caring for plants and trees. In this case, it's even more important is to
talk to someone who knows the plant(s) with which you are working because
there is so much variation, even between plants of the same genus. Please,
don't compare cottonwoods to orchard trees, there is little, to no
similarity here.
With the same thought in mind, irrigation may not be the only/best answer to
the problem that has been presented. This is like saying you should treat
minor cirrhosis of the liver by replacing it, when a reduction of alcohol
might also be important to assist in keeping the patient alive after the
job is done (and you have been paid). In this case, mulching is an
additional technique that will add to the survival of the trees, *and* keep
the undesired weeds down - even before an irrigation system has been
installed.
Anna Thurston, Water Conservation Specialist
<athursto@ci.tacoma.wa.us>
----------
From: root
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: DRIP IRRIGATION OF MATURE TREES
Date: Thursday, January 23, 1997 2:35PM
>At 04:06 PM 1/17/97 -0600, Stephen W. Smith wrote:
>>Any experience or brainstorming of the following situation is welcome:
>>
>>Hi,
>I am surprised that no one has yet pointed out to you that squeezing
closed the softer plastic
tubing.
Also in our experience
Jean/
>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:41:01 +1100 (EST)
From: Wally Menke <wallym@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Happy 1997 and more
At 06:22 PM 5/01/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Steve Jordan wrote:
>>
>> I just saw a brochure from Netafim about a new disk filter. It was
>> impregnated with trifurulan (sp?). It stopped root intrusion??
>> Steve Jordan- Artichoke Evangelist, Wetland manager
>
>Dear Steve,
>
> The Techfilter is impregnated with trifluralin and is designed for use
>in landscape applications to prevent root intrusion. The volume of water
>required for most ag applications makes trifluralin impregnation
>impractical under those conditions.
>
>Jerome Pier
>Agronomist
>Netafim Irrigation, Inc.
>jpier@mindspring.com
>
Dear Jerome
Is there any technical data available, or has there been any independant
testing done that is available on this filter to show that it actually works?,
expected life of the trifluralin?, and what residuals are required around
the emitter to stop root intrusion.
Regards
Wally Menke
End of Digest
Prepared by Steve Modena, AB4EL
Suggestions and comments to: modena@SunSITE.unc.edu