TRICKLE-L: 199708XX
is the compilation of discussion during Aug 97
via AB4EL Web Digests @ SunSITE
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 00:04:21 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 30 Jul 1997 to 31 Jul 1997
There are 3 messages totalling 149 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Soil microbes
2. Hawaiian tubing evaluation
3. Water hardness and acidification for SDI
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:07:35 -0400
From: GroAire@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Soil microbes
Hello Jason,
I have been engineering and designing subaeration systems utilizing drip
systems for 15 years in the agricultural, greenhouse, and horticultural
industry. One of the most limiting factors for microbe propagation in the
soil is the limitation of oxygen in the soil. The microflora of the soil
continually diminishes the oxygen supply and replaces it with carbon dioxide.
That is why the oxygen level decreases and the co-2 level increases so
dramatically in the spring as the soil warms. The microbial activity explodes
as the soil warms in the spring, then just when the seeds germinate and new
growth begins the CO-2 levels rise and start limiting root development. If
the moisture and oxygen levels are maintained at optimum levels then plant
growth follows accordingly, along with microbe levels. We see tilth changes
in the soil dramatically after 1 to 2 years of treatment with subaeration
which we attribute to microbial activity.
Dave Enyeart
GroAire Irrigation Inc.
GroAire@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:08:38 +1000
From: celia sweeney (c.sweeney@CNETNS.TCP.CSIRO.AU)
Subject: Hawaiian tubing evaluation
Dear readers,
I have read an article by Bui,W from 1988, who mentions a program
researching drip tubing performance carried out by the Hawaiian Sugar
Industy/Hawaiian Sugar Plantars Association. Does anyone know if this
program is still running and who I could contact for information?
Thanks in advance,
Celia Sweeney
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:53:37 +0000
From: Blake Sanden (blsanden@UCDAVIS.EDU)
Subject: Re: Water hardness and acidification for SDI
Don,
I assume for alkalinity you mean HCO3 concentration instead of CaCO3, but
that's not my real question.
I deal with a lot of growers with trees and vines who use extremely pure
(EC~0.05 dS/m) irrigation district water off the west slope of the Sierra
Nevada mountains (granite water shed). pH usually runs 8 to 8.5 with about
half the electrolyte as HCO3. Most of the soils are shallow sandy loams
that slake and seal with the application of this water. To conteract this
we inject a lot of gypsum into the irrigation water to get ~0.5 to 2 meq/l
free Ca++. Growers also broadcast pit gypsum as a cheap alternative
during the dormant season.
Some of these lightly buffered soils have been acidified over 30-80 years
of farming, but some of these fields with decent gypsum injection programs
(600 to 1200 lb/ac/yr) have realized an increase in pH. N fertilization
over the last 10 years is primarily urea-ammonium-nitrate (32%).
Phosphoric acid is also used.
THE QUESTION -- obviously some of the soluable Ca in the gyp is going to
lime and subsequently helping neutralize the acidity. Will the LI provide
an accurate calculation of how much solution gyp is being consumed by this
process? Does this apply as the soil dries out after an irrigation?
Some of my other growers have marginally alkaline soils and they would like
to know just how gyp they're losing to lime and when to plan on running
some acid. Don, do you think your spreadsheet might have some application?
Can I run it in Excel? If so, could you send a copy.
Thanks,
Blake Sanden
Irrigation Management & Agronomy Farm Advisor, Kern County
University of California Cooperative Extension
1031 S Mt Vernon Ave
Bakersfield, CA 92307
805-868-6218
blsanden@ucdavis.edu
)Freddie,
)
) The likelihood of calcium carbonate scaling can be predicted by
)calculating the Langelier Saturation Index (LI), which is defined as the
)actual pH minus the saturation pH. If you know the total dissolved solid
)(mg/L), calcium (mg/L), alkalinity (mg/L as CaCO3) concentration, and pH and
)temperature, the saturation pH can be determined. You should measure the pH
)of the irrigation water at the well.
)
) I will mail you a copy of a spreadsheet (LOTUS123) that performs the
)calculation. The temperature effect will be less important with SDI. With
)above ground micro irrigation, the temperature factor can be important since
)the solubility of calcium carbonate decreases as temperature increases.
)
)Don Pitts
)University of Florida
)
)At 04:35 PM 7/8/97 -0500, you wrote:
))I've had an inquiry about what level of water hardness does it become
))extremely important to initiate a maintenance or continuous level of
))acid water treatment.??????
))
))Overall, I would like to know if there's some rule of thumb, but
))there are specifics about this inquiry, someone might be able to
))discuss. I am also interested in aquiring references that might help
))with future related questions.
))
))The particulars for the site in question is
))Sodium 30ppm
))Calcium 114 ppm
))Magnesium 30 ppm
))Potassium 17 ppm
))Total Hardness (Calcium Carbonate) 410 ppm
))Chloride 17 ppm
))
))From the information I have, there was no measurement of water pH.
))I would guess from water in our region, that it might be around
))7.5-7.8. The soils in the region have a calcareous nature, so
))there's lots of buffering capacity in the soil, so acidification of
))the soil is not a large concern.
))
))Freddie
))*
))-------------------------------------------------------------------
))Freddie Lamm *
))Research Agricultural Engineer *** o
))KSU Northwest Research-Extension Center ***** /|\
))105 Experiment Farm Road *******\\
))Colby, Kansas 67701-1697 *********
))Ph. 913-462-6281 ***********
))FAX 913-462-2315 *************
))Email:flamm@oznet.ksu.edu It's all downhill from here.
))
))------ THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ, THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ. ------
))
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 30 Jul 1997 to 31 Jul 1997
****************************************************
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 00:01:06 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 31 Jul 1997 to 1 Aug 1997
There are 3 messages totalling 126 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Hawaiian tubing evaluation (2)
2. Introduction
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:29:02 -1000
From: Kexiu Wang (kexiu@HAWAII.EDU)
Subject: Re: Hawaiian tubing evaluation
HI, Celia:
I do not know about this program. I think Dr. I-Pai Wu, a
professor in Biosystems Engineering Dept. of University of Hawaii can
provide some information for you. I was his student before. He is expert
and famous in drip irrigation. His e-mail address is: ipaiwu@hawaii.edu
Hope it is help.
Aloha, Kexiu Wang
==========================================================================
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, celia sweeney wrote:
) Dear readers,
)
) I have read an article by Bui,W from 1988, who mentions a program
) researching drip tubing performance carried out by the Hawaiian Sugar
) Industy/Hawaiian Sugar Plantars Association. Does anyone know if this
) program is still running and who I could contact for information?
)
) Thanks in advance,
)
) Celia Sweeney
)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:08:04 -1000
From: DON McDONALD (wai@PIXI.COM)
Subject: Re: Hawaiian tubing evaluation
At 10:08 AM 8/1/97 +1000, you wrote:
)Dear readers,
)
)I have read an article by Bui,W from 1988, who mentions a program
)researching drip tubing performance carried out by the Hawaiian Sugar
)Industy/Hawaiian Sugar Plantars Association. Does anyone know if this
)program is still running and who I could contact for information?
)
)Thanks in advance,
)
)Celia Sweeney
)
)
The Hawaiian Sugar Planters Association (HSPA) no longer exists as such, but
has been reorganized and is now known as Hawaiian Agricultural Research
Corporation (HARC). They no longer do drip tape evaluation and no longer
employ Win Bui, but may have some of his past evaluations on file. There
will be nothing current.
The Center for Irrigation Technology (CIT) would be your best bet and have a
home page
http://www.atinet.org/cati/cit/
which may have some information. They have a publication "irrigation
Equipment Performance Report" which is what you are most likely interested in.
Aloha
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:35:06 -0400
From: "Jose R. Angulo" (joranba@TOJ.COM)
Subject: Introduction
I have been recently admitted to this selected group of people
interested on drip irrigation, and I have been asked to make this
introduction by trying to answer 11 questions:
As a Civil Engineer I got a job in 1976, with United Brands Co., a
banana grower in Honduras, and we placed the first experimental system
of drip irrigation (in Guaruma 2), it was the newest and everybody
talked about, mainly the savings in water consumption, and energy. From
2.25" of water per week applied with the "big guns" at 120 psi, we were
going to apply 1.75" at 25 psi. I never thought that since that time I
was always going to be related to bananas and all the parts of its
infrastructure. Since then we have tried overhead and surface drip, and
microsprinklers, bywall, inline, single line, double lines etc.. and
always related to banana cultivation, I have no experience with
subsurface drip.
Problems with drip we have found many, mainly related with damage done
to the lines voluntarily or accidentally, the difficulty to spot the
problem right away, maintenance, some soils responding inadequately to
drip irrigation, clogged emitters, crossing of drains etc.. Yes we do
fertigation and is better than doing it by hand, the only problem is
that we have to do it from valve headers in the field to cover blocks of
5 acres each. Like I said at the beginning one of the big issues was the
reduction in water use but through time, I see that the water use have
incremented, we duplicated the number of lines, and are now applying
3/8" per day (6 days per week). Are we over irrigating?. And yes there
is some reduction in fertilizer use. In one of our farms we have water
quality problems during prolongued droughts the ph goes up to 8, and the
hydraulic conductivity reaches 650, which is medium salinity, we haven't
done anything about this since we don't have any other alternative
source. On hard soils we irrigate twice per day, and loamy soils once
per day, we use the class A pan, and apply the factors to correct, and
that's the amount that we apply. No we don't have any rodent damage even
though we have all types of rodents around. In general terms we are not
pleased with the uniformity of the system, due to many reasons we spot
many dry places, even though we trust that the design is good, I found
out about trickle-l using a search engine.
Finally I want to let everybody know that I am happy to be in this
group, and I expect to learn a lot, there is very little I can give in
return, but I will also try to give as much as I can.
Probably I don't sound to happy with our drip irrigation system, and
actually it is so, I believe that our countries (I am in Jamaica now),
need irrigation systems that can be easily managed, to me all systems
are good if they are properly managed.
I thank all of you for your time in reading this,
Jose
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 31 Jul 1997 to 1 Aug 1997
***************************************************
Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 00:01:45 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 1 Aug 1997 to 2 Aug 1997
There is one message totalling 39 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Trickle-L subscribers busy in newest IJ issue
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 09:19:02 -0700
From: Richard Mead (rmead@AGRILINK-INT.COM)
Subject: Trickle-L subscribers busy in newest IJ issue
The August '97 issue of the Irrigation Journal
[http://www.aip.com/green/pub/ij/] is filled with good irrigation articles.
All three of the issue's main articles were written by or collaborated with
Trickle-L subscribers (and we're all so proud!).
The articles are:
Planning a Microsprinkler System (by Randall Merriott)
http://www.aip.com/green/pub/ij/html/797mic.htm
Drip Irrigation Technology:
A Resource Management Tool for Farmers (John C. Roberts/Stuart W. Styles)
http://www.aip.com/green/pub/ij/html/797dri.htm
Improvements in Irrigation Efficiency (by Freddie Lamm)
http://www.aip.com/green/pub/ij/html/797imp.htm
If you do not have access to the World Wide Web, let me know so I can cut
and paste the article and send it to you via email. All of the URLs (web
addresses) above will be active until the next issue of the IJ comes out
sometime in September. After September, the current URLs will change
whereby the files will be shifted to the editorial archives section of the
IJ. I will announce when this occurs and obviously have links to all three
articles on the Microirrigation Forum web site [www.mif.org].
Happy reading!
Richard Mead
Trickle-L and MIF owner/manager
www.mif.org
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 1 Aug 1997 to 2 Aug 1997
**************************************************
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 00:02:17 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 2 Aug 1997 to 4 Aug 1997
There are 2 messages totalling 188 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Water hardness and acidification for SDI
2. Relayed message from Venezuela grower
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:51:53 -0400
From: "Dr. Don Pitts" (djp@ICON.IMOK.UFL.EDU)
Subject: Re: Water hardness and acidification for SDI
Blake,
You are correct, most of alkalinity at pH normally encountered with
irrigation water is in the form of HCO3, but most test kits report
alkalinity as CaCO3.
I believe that you could use the Langelier Saturation Index to determine
if excess gypsum were being convert to CaCO3. You could sample the
irrigation water after the injection to determine if it is supersaturated
with Ca and CO3. If the pH of the soil is relatively low, it should make
no difference since the CaCO3 will dissolve in the soil. In alkaline
soils, however, the calcium could be unavailable for its intended purpose.
Do you ever observe scale formation in the drip irrigation systems
following gypsum injections?
I will send you a copy of the spreadsheet with documentation. It is a
LOTUS worksheet, but it should run on EXCEL.
Regards,
Don Pitts
University of Florida
At 06:53 PM 7/31/97 +0000, Blake Sanden wrote:
)Don,
)
)I assume for alkalinity you mean HCO3 concentration instead of CaCO3, but
)that's not my real question.
)
)I deal with a lot of growers with trees and vines who use extremely pure
)(EC~0.05 dS/m) irrigation district water off the west slope of the Sierra
)Nevada mountains (granite water shed). pH usually runs 8 to 8.5 with about
)half the electrolyte as HCO3. Most of the soils are shallow sandy loams
)that slake and seal with the application of this water. To conteract this
)we inject a lot of gypsum into the irrigation water to get ~0.5 to 2 meq/l
)free Ca++. Growers also broadcast pit gypsum as a cheap alternative
)during the dormant season.
)
)Some of these lightly buffered soils have been acidified over 30-80 years
)of farming, but some of these fields with decent gypsum injection programs
)(600 to 1200 lb/ac/yr) have realized an increase in pH. N fertilization
)over the last 10 years is primarily urea-ammonium-nitrate (32%).
)Phosphoric acid is also used.
)
)THE QUESTION -- obviously some of the soluable Ca in the gyp is going to
)lime and subsequently helping neutralize the acidity. Will the LI provide
)an accurate calculation of how much solution gyp is being consumed by this
)process? Does this apply as the soil dries out after an irrigation?
)
)Some of my other growers have marginally alkaline soils and they would like
)to know just how gyp they're losing to lime and when to plan on running
)some acid. Don, do you think your spreadsheet might have some application?
)Can I run it in Excel? If so, could you send a copy.
)
)Thanks,
)Blake Sanden
)
)Irrigation Management & Agronomy Farm Advisor, Kern County
)University of California Cooperative Extension
)1031 S Mt Vernon Ave
)Bakersfield, CA 92307
)805-868-6218
)blsanden@ucdavis.edu
)
))Freddie,
))
)) The likelihood of calcium carbonate scaling can be predicted by
))calculating the Langelier Saturation Index (LI), which is defined as the
))actual pH minus the saturation pH. If you know the total dissolved solid
))(mg/L), calcium (mg/L), alkalinity (mg/L as CaCO3) concentration, and pH and
))temperature, the saturation pH can be determined. You should measure the pH
))of the irrigation water at the well.
))
)) I will mail you a copy of a spreadsheet (LOTUS123) that performs the
))calculation. The temperature effect will be less important with SDI. With
))above ground micro irrigation, the temperature factor can be important since
))the solubility of calcium carbonate decreases as temperature increases.
))
))Don Pitts
))University of Florida
))
))At 04:35 PM 7/8/97 -0500, you wrote:
)))I've had an inquiry about what level of water hardness does it become
)))extremely important to initiate a maintenance or continuous level of
)))acid water treatment.??????
)))
)))Overall, I would like to know if there's some rule of thumb, but
)))there are specifics about this inquiry, someone might be able to
)))discuss. I am also interested in aquiring references that might help
)))with future related questions.
)))
)))The particulars for the site in question is
)))Sodium 30ppm
)))Calcium 114 ppm
)))Magnesium 30 ppm
)))Potassium 17 ppm
)))Total Hardness (Calcium Carbonate) 410 ppm
)))Chloride 17 ppm
)))
)))From the information I have, there was no measurement of water pH.
)))I would guess from water in our region, that it might be around
)))7.5-7.8. The soils in the region have a calcareous nature, so
)))there's lots of buffering capacity in the soil, so acidification of
)))the soil is not a large concern.
)))
)))Freddie
)))*
)))-------------------------------------------------------------------
)))Freddie Lamm *
)))Research Agricultural Engineer *** o
)))KSU Northwest Research-Extension Center ***** /|\
)))105 Experiment Farm Road *******\\
)))Colby, Kansas 67701-1697 *********
)))Ph. 913-462-6281 ***********
)))FAX 913-462-2315 *************
)))Email:flamm@oznet.ksu.edu It's all downhill from here.
)))
)))------ THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ, THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ. ------
)))
)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:55:42 -0500
From: "W. Bryan Smith" (wsmth@CLEMSON.EDU)
Subject: Re: Relayed message from Venezuela grower
I submitted Max's question to an Extension vegetable specialist and
received the following reply.
Bryan
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: "Powell Smith" (jpsmth@CLEMSON.EDU)
Organization: Ag Extension
To: wsmth@CLEMSON.EDU
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:32:05 -0500
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Relayed message from Venezuela grower
Reply-to: JPSMTH@CLEMSON.EDU
Priority: normal
Bryan, maybe you can forward this reply back to our grower in Ven.
My suggestion would be to strictly follow the label instructions for
use of the materials which you mentioned. I have never seen copper
used through the drip tubing. I feel that this would stress the roots of
the plants. Pseudomonas solanacearum is a soil borne disease and
cannot be controlled by spraying any bacteriocides. It could have
been in your soil and not in your neighbors. It can be spread by
water i.e. irrigation. Infected transplants is another way the
disease is spread. As for the Erwinia carotovora can come from soil
splash on the developing fruit. It also affects plants worse which
have been overfertilized with nitrogen. I have never seen either of
the problems in this country be related to the use of the plastic
mulch/drip irrigation system. Powell
J. Powell Smith, County Extension Agent
219 E. Main St., Ste 105
Lexington, SC 29072-3557
(803)359-8515, FAX: (803)359-4245
EMail: JPSMTH@Clemson.edu
=====================================
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
W. Bryan Smith
Area Extension Agent - Irrigation / Water Quality
Clemson Extension Service
P.O. Box 160, Newberry, South Carolina 29108 USA
Office: 803 276-1091 FAX: 803 276-1095
Internet: wsmth@clemson.edu
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
All opinions are my own and not reflective of the
policies of Clemson University or the Cooperative
Extension Service.
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 2 Aug 1997 to 4 Aug 1997
**************************************************
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 00:02:33 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 4 Aug 1997 to 5 Aug 1997
There is one message totalling 62 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Tensiometers and SDI
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:58:06 -0500
From: "W. Bryan Smith" (wsmth@CLEMSON.EDU)
Subject: Re: Tensiometers and SDI
Many thanks for the kind replies and good info regarding SDI and
tensiometers. I'm finally back in the office (!) and really
appreciate your comments.
One note of clarification - in the section of my original message:
)with buried drip, the water source may be at a depth of anywhere from 6
) inches (15 cm) to 18 )inches (45 cm) or maybe more. So, when irrigation
) begins, the water will most likely move "up" )to the shallow tensiometer
) rather than down...
I was not suggesting that the water would preferentially move
upward instead of down! I instead meant to say that the water would
have to move upward to influence the shallow tensiometer, which is (as
many have noted) a harder bit of work than water moving down.
My idea was that if the drip tubing is buried deeper than the shallow
tensiometer, the much smaller storage of soil water in the shallow soil
profile above the tensiometer would mean (probably?) that the shallow
tensiometer would indicate irrigation needed sooner. This stands to
reason - less water stored in the shallow soil profile, hence more
frequent irrigation required. I am just curious - maybe in these
circumstances, if we water "normal" surface drip amounts with each
application and apply as the shallow tensiometer indicates need, are we
watering too much? Is there wasted water moving down through the
soil profile?
So the idea is, since we are in effect managing a smaller slice of
the root zone with buried drip (with a subsequent smaller storage
area for the water), we probably need to be applying less water
per irrigation and have more irrigation sets to get the water to the
crop. Hence the "pulsing" mentioned by several of you, which would
also help water move upward into the shallow soil profile via
capillary action.
Just a thought - I don't mean to reiterate what's been said. Richard,
I'll check the MIF website later today (tried earlier and couldn't get
through - glad to see it's that busy!) and see what's in the archives as
you suggested.
Thanks again to you all!
Bryan
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
W. Bryan Smith
Area Extension Agent - Irrigation / Water Quality
Clemson Extension Service
P.O. Box 160, Newberry, South Carolina 29108 USA
Office: 803 276-1091 FAX: 803 276-1095
Internet: wsmth@clemson.edu
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
All opinions are my own and not reflective of the
policies of Clemson University or the Cooperative
Extension Service.
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 4 Aug 1997 to 5 Aug 1997
**************************************************
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 00:03:14 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 5 Aug 1997 to 6 Aug 1997
There is one message totalling 33 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. introduction
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 22:38:25 -0600
From: Linda Day (lday@DIGITALPLA.NET)
Subject: introduction
My name is Linda Day and I have just subscribed to trickle-l. In
regards to the questions posed:
1) I worked for nine years in Central California, designing surface and
subsurface drip irrigation systems. Since then, I have been working on
my thesis which involves a comparison of subsurface drip, surge and
conventional furrow irrigation systems on onions.
2) The crops I have used drip irrigation on include: strawberries,
raisin grapes, lettuce and other row crops, celery, and onions.
3) In strawberries, the average depth of drip placement has been about
2" below the surface, the lettuce at about 10", and the onions at ~6".
4) The problems I have encountered with drip irrigation include
plugging and insects.
5) I have been fertilizing the onions with 32-Uran(32% N) through the
drip tape.
6) I have seen a reduction in water use in the lettuce.
8)I irrigate the onions every other day.
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 5 Aug 1997 to 6 Aug 1997
**************************************************
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 00:03:18 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 6 Aug 1997 to 7 Aug 1997
There is one message totalling 139 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Fwd: Schedule
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:46:41 -0400
From: Tim1Utah@AOL.COM
Subject: Fwd: Schedule
FYI
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: lori@irrigation.org (Lori Brown)
To: Tim1Utah@aol.com (Tim)
Date: 97-08-07 12:36:52 EDT
THE IRRIGATION ASSOCIATION EDUCATION SCHEDULE
ALABAMA
MONTGOMERY
CERTIFIED IRRIGATION CONTRACTOR - AUGUST 10-11, 1997
AUBURN
ELECTRICAL TROUBLESHOOTING - SEPTEMBER 14, 1997
SPONSORED BY: ALABAMA IRRIGATION ASSOCIATION
UTAH
SALT LAKE CITY
LANDSCAPE IRRIGATION AUDITOR - AUGUST 14-15, 1997
SPONSORED BY: UTAH STATE UNIVERSITY COOPERATIVE EXTENSION SERVICE
NORTH CAROLINA
CHARLOTTE
LANDSCAPE IRRIGATION AUDITOR - AUGUST 21-22, 1997
SPONSORED BY: CAROLINAS IRRIGATION ASSOCIATION
ILLINOIS
HOFFMAN ESTATES
LANDSCAPE IRRIGATION AUDITOR - SEPTEMBER 10-11, 1997
SPONSORED BY THE ILLIONIS TURF IRRIGATION ASSOCIATION
HOSTED BY SEARS WORLD HEADQUARTERS
NEW MEXICO
RUIDOSO
LANDSCAPE IRRIGATION AUDITOR - SEPTEMBER 15-16, 1997
SPONSORED BY THE NEW MEXICO IRRIGATION ASSOCIATION
HOSTED BY RMSAWWWA/RMWEA
CALIFORNIA
CORONA
INSTALLATION SUMMER CAMP - OCTOBER 6-10, 1997
SPONSORED BY CALIFORNIA LANDSCAPE CONTRACTORS ASSOCIATION
RIVERSIDE CORONA CONSERVATION DISTRICT
HOSTED BY CITY OF CORONA
NEW YORK
PLAINVIEW
LANDSCAPE IRRIGATION AUDITOR - OCTOBER 15-16, 1997
SPONSORED BY LONG ISLAND IRRIGATION ASSOCIATION
HOSTED BY CORNELL COOPERATIVE EXTENSION
KANSAS
KANSAS CITY
FIELD HYDRAULICS
ELECTRICAL TROUBLESHOOTING - NOVEMBER 13, 1997
WICHITA
LANDSCAPE IRRIGATION DESIGN - DECEMBER 8-9, 1997
SPONSOR: TBA
Education Class Schedule
18th Annual I.A. Exposition Nashville, Tennessee
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30, 1997
SCHOOL OF IRRIGATION 8:00AM - 4:00PM
GOLF COURSE IRRIGATON DESIGN 8:00AM - 5:00PM
FRIDAY, OCTOBER 31, 1997
SCHOOL OF IRRIGATION DAY 2 8:00AM - 5:00PM
GOLF COURSE DESIGN DAY 2 8:00AM - 5:00PM
DRIP IN THE LANDSCAPE 8:30AM - 4:30PM
LANDSCAPE IRRIGATION DESIGN 8:30AM - 4:30PM
CERTIFIED IRRIGATION CONTRACTOR 8:00AM - 5:00PM
SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1, 1997
LANDSCAPE IRRIGATION DESIGN DAY 2 8:30AM - 4:30PM
CERTIFIED IRRIGATION CONTRACTOR DAY 2 8:00AM - 5:00PM
AGRICULTURAL DRIP/MICRO 8:00AM - 5:00PM
LANDSCAPE IRRIGATION AUDITOR 8:30AM - 4:30PM
HIGH EFFICIENCY DESIGN 9:00AM - 4:00PM
SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 2, 1997
AGRICULTURAL DRIP/MICRO DAY 2 8:00AM - 5:00PM
LANDSCAPE IRRIGATION AUDITOR DAY 2 8:00AM - 12NOON
CLIA EXAM 1:00PM - 4:00PM
ELECTRICAL TROUBLESHOOTING 8:00AM - 12NOON
CHEMIGATION/FERTIGATION 8:30AM - 4:30PM
DESIGN HYDRAULICS 1:00PM - 5:00PM
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 1997
BUSINESS OF IRRIGATON CONTRACTING 8:30AM - 4:30PM
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 4, 1997
UNDERSTANDING PUMPS 8:00AM - 12NOON
CONTRACTOR SALES 8:00AM - 5:00PM
LANDSCAPE DRAINAGE 9:00AM - 4:00PM
SPRINKLER SYSTEM SCHEDULING 1:00PM - 5:00PM
THE IRRIGATION ASSOCIATION RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CANCEL ANY OR ALL
CLASSES AS NECESSARY.
*FOR GENERAL INFORMATION CONCERNING REGISTRATION FORMS AND INFORMATION
CONTACT:
LORI M. BROWN
EDUCATION MANAGER
PHONE: (703) 573-3551 FAX: (703) 573-1913
ADDITIONAL SITES AND DATES WILL BE FORTHCOMING
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 6 Aug 1997 to 7 Aug 1997
**************************************************
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 00:03:01 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 7 Aug 1997 to 8 Aug 1997
There is one message totalling 41 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Attention LIST-OWNER:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:03:06 +0000
From: John Powell (jpowell@HAESTAD.COM)
Subject: Attention LIST-OWNER:
Attention LIST-OWNER:
I have sent several emails to TRICKLE-L-request@crcvms.unl.edu but
have not been removed yet. I am leaving the company and the email
will start to bounce soon.
Please remove me from the mailing list at JPOWELL@TECH1.HAESTAD.COM
I am unable to unsubscribe from that address.
Thanks!
To: TRICKLE-L-request@crcvms.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Your request to sign off the TRICKLE-L list
Send reply to: jpowell@haestad.com
Date sent: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 17:51:37
Please unsubscribe me. I might be signed up from
JPOWELL@TECH1.HAESTAD.COM
and I can no longer send a signoff message from that account.
) ) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 16:44:08 -0600
) ) From: "L-Soft list server at UNIVERSITY OF NE - LINCOLN (1.8c)"
) ) (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
) ) Subject: Your request to sign off the TRICKLE-L list
) ) To: jpowell@HAESTAD.COM
) ) Reply-to: TRICKLE-L-request@crcvms.unl.edu
) Mon, 4 Aug 1997 16:44:08
)
) No entry for your jpowell@HAESTAD.COM address could be found in the
) TRICKLE-L list at CRCVMS.UNL.EDU. Here are a number of possible reasons
) why you might still be getting mail from the list:
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 7 Aug 1997 to 8 Aug 1997
**************************************************
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 00:01:36 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 8 Aug 1997 to 9 Aug 1997
There is one message totalling 45 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. introduction
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:19:00 +0800
From: Lany Geoffery (geoffery@PUBLIC.WH.HB.CN)
Subject: Re: introduction
Hi,Linda,I am an Chinese boy who just read you email.But I major in
atuomobile industry in a university in the
center of China.Since I joined the internet big family,I have made hundreds
of friends via the email.What a wonderful thing it is!I hope I can keep in
touch with you.
----------
) ú›¬_EE: Linda Day (lday@DIGITALPLA.NET)
) EO¬_EE: TRICKLE-L@crcvms.unl.edu
) ™öIƒ: introduction
) EO’U: D€’UEŽ 1997Žˆ8OA7EO 12:38
)
) My name is Linda Day and I have just subscribed to trickle-l. In
) regards to the questions posed:
)
) 1) I worked for nine years in Central California, designing surface and
) subsurface drip irrigation systems. Since then, I have been working on
) my thesis which involves a comparison of subsurface drip, surge and
) conventional furrow irrigation systems on onions.
)
) 2) The crops I have used drip irrigation on include: strawberries,
) raisin grapes, lettuce and other row crops, celery, and onions.
)
) 3) In strawberries, the average depth of drip placement has been about
) 2" below the surface, the lettuce at about 10", and the onions at ~6".
)
) 4) The problems I have encountered with drip irrigation include
) plugging and insects.
)
) 5) I have been fertilizing the onions with 32-Uran(32% N) through the
) drip tape.
)
) 6) I have seen a reduction in water use in the lettuce.
)
) 8)I irrigate the onions every other day.
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 8 Aug 1997 to 9 Aug 1997
**************************************************
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:01:37 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 9 Aug 1997 to 11 Aug 1997
There are 5 messages totalling 170 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Introduction
2. Where is IIAN BARR? (2)
3. New & Revised Water Measurement Manual (2)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:06:00 -0400
From: Dale Hebb (HebbD@EM.AGR.CA)
Subject: Introduction
I am Dale Hebb, currently working with Agriculture Canada on an
Irrigation project Nova Scotia, Canada.
In response to your questions:
----
1) Briefly, what is your affiliation with trickle/drip irrigation?
We are just starting a project to evaluate the use on trickle irrigation for
Nova Scotian Orchards. This is a new area for our producers so we
are just learning.
2) What crops or plants do you use drip irrigation on?
Apples
3) If using subsurface drip irrigation, what is the average depth of
placement of the drip lateral?
We are using surface lines.
4) What problems have you encountered with drip irrigation?
Nothing major yet. One concern is freezing damage in winter.
5) Fertigation is a real advantage of drip irrigation. What form of N, P
and K have you been trying and to what success?
Just looking into this. We also are attempting Calcium/Boron application
for Storage improvements.
6) Have you experienced a reduction in fertilizer and/or water use?
NA
7) Do you have water quality problems? If so, how do you tackle the
situation?
8) How frequent do you irrigate? Many times a day, one long session per
day, or once every several days?
9) Do you have rodent damage? If so, how do you control the problem?
10) Are you pleased with the uniformity of your system or systems?
Were
they designed correctly?
11) How did you find out about the Trickle-L mailing list?
)From a periodical.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:51:11 -0700
From: "Alan S. Wicks" (awicks@TELEVAR.COM)
Subject: Where is IIAN BARR?
Greetings,
While looking through the archived material on Iron Problems I came
across a note from Iian Barr wherein he said that he had copies
available of a paper he presented on iron problems. However, I do not
have his e-mail address.
Are you still out there?? or does anyone have his e-mail address??
Thanks,
Alan S. Wicks
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:18:53 -0500
From: "W. Bryan Smith" (wsmth@CLEMSON.EDU)
Subject: Re: Where is IIAN BARR?
) Greetings,
) While looking through the archived material on Iron Problems I came
) across a note from Iian Barr wherein he said that he had copies
) available of a paper he presented on iron problems. However, I do not
) have his e-mail address.
)
) Are you still out there?? or does anyone have his e-mail address??
)
) Thanks,
)
) Alan S. Wicks
Alan,
Ilan Barr is with Netafim Irrigation in Florida (or was as of this spring).
Sorry, no E-mail address.
Bryan
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
W. Bryan Smith
Area Extension Agent - Irrigation / Water Quality
Clemson Extension Service
P.O. Box 160, Newberry, South Carolina 29108 USA
Office: 803 276-1091 FAX: 803 276-1095
Internet: wsmth@clemson.edu
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
All opinions are my own and not reflective of the
policies of Clemson University or the Cooperative
Extension Service.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 15:51:41 -0700
From: "Thomas L. Spofford" (tspofford@WCC.NRCS.USDA.GOV)
Subject: New & Revised Water Measurement Manual
Group List members,
The United States Department of Interior, Bureau of Reclamation
(USBR), has recently totally revised the "USBR Water
Measurement Manual". This total revision involved a
cooperative effort with the United States Department of
Agriculture agencies of the , Agricultural Research Service (ARS)
and Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS). The
revision has been updated with state-of-the-art water
measurement technology. The USBR has placed the manual
electonically at:
(http://ogee.do.usbr.gov/fmt/wmm/)
The site presently contains text, with pictures and figures being
added continuously, until the full manual is electronically
available. Ordering information and price for a hard copy of the
manual can be located at the above site.
Thomas L. Spofford, Irrigation Engineer
USDA - Natural Resources Conservation Service
National Water & Climate Center, Water Science & Technology
Staff
101 SW Main St., Suite 1600
Portland, OR 97204
PH (503) 414-3075 / FAX (503) 414-3101
e-mail: (tspofford@wcc.nrcs.usda.gov)
*********************************************************
"Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil and you're
a thousand miles from the corn field." Dwight D. Eisenhower (34
th. President of the United States).
*********************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 15:34:33 -0700
From: "Thomas L. Spofford" (tspofford@WCC.NRCS.USDA.GOV)
Subject: New & Revised Water Measurement Manual
Group List members,
The United States Department of Interior, Bureau of Reclamation
(USBR), has recently totally revised the "USBR Water
Measurement Manual". This total revision involved a
cooperative effort with the United States Department of
Agriculture agencies of the , Agricultural Research Service (ARS)
and Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS). The
revision has been updated with state-of-the-art water
measurement technology. The USBR has placed the manual
electonically at:
(http://ogee.do.usbr.gov/fmt/wmm/)
The site presently contains text, with pictures and figures being
added continuously, until the full manual is electronically
available. Ordering information and price for a hard copy of the
manual can be located at the above site.
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 9 Aug 1997 to 11 Aug 1997
***************************************************
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 00:02:09 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 11 Aug 1997 to 12 Aug 1997
There are 2 messages totalling 75 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Where is IIAN BARR?
2. Trickle-L and MIF update
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:22:05 -0400
From: Tim1Utah@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Where is IIAN BARR?
Last time I spoke with Ilan he was still with Netafim in Florida. Good Luck!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:44:37 -0700
From: Richard Mead (rmead@AGRILINK-INT.COM)
Subject: Trickle-L and MIF update
The July 1997 Trickle-L archives are now available on the Microirrigation
Forum's web site [www.mif.org]. Topics for July '97 covered the following
(w/file URL in brackets):
- Can't add more acid [http://www.mif.org/nomacid.html]
- What is capillary fringe? [http://www.mif.org/capfrng.html]
- More disease in drip vs furrow: Why? [http://www.mif.org/disdpfu.html]
- Calculating downline emitter flow rate variation
[http://www.mif.org/dnlnvar.html]
- Greenhouse design publications [http://www.mif.org/ghpub.html]
- When does hardwater need acid? [http://www.mif.org/hardnacid.html]
- Heat pulse probes [http://www.mif.org/hpp.html]
- Soil Microbe additions via irrigation [http://www.mif.org/smicro.html]
- Best system for Pecan trees [http://www.mif.org/pecan.html]
- Converting sprinklers to drip [http://www.mif.org/sptodrip.html]
- Modifying irrigations using tensiometers in SDI
[http://www.mif.org/modtensdi.html]
- Wine grapes in cold climates [http://www.mif.org/winecold.html]
------------
I would also like to introduce a new section of MIF called "Microirrigation
Forum Contributions".
Found under the "Best of Trickle-L" category, this will be a venue for
anyone wishing
to publish or re-publish drip irrigation related papers. This is very
informal with the only caveat being that the person submitting the paper
must be one of the authors.
Currently in this new section there are three papers:
- Evaluation Of Emission Uniformity For Efficient Microirrigation
- Water Quality For Microirrigation
- Installation Issues for SDI Systems
Set your browser to http://www.mif.org/mifc.html to select any one of the
three new papers above and let me know what you think.
Sincerely,
Richard Mead
Trickle-L and MIF owner
www.mif.org
p.s.
Again, for those who do not have web access, please let me know what looks
interesting and I will cut and paste the information to you via email.
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 11 Aug 1997 to 12 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 00:00:15 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 12 Aug 1997 to 13 Aug 1997
There are 3 messages totalling 97 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Where is IIAN BARR?
2. New & Revised Water Measurement Manual
3. 6th International Microirrigation Congress in South Africa??
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 22:06:45 -0700
From: Jerome Pier (jpier@MINDSPRING.COM)
Subject: Re: Where is IIAN BARR?
Here is Ilan's contact info:
Ilan Bar
Agronomist
Netafim Irrigation, Inc.
548 N. Douglas Ave.
Altamonte Springs, FL 32714
(800) 393-1414
(407) 788-6352
Fax: (407) 862-0259
Pager: (800) 759-7243
Hope this helps.
Jerome Pier
Agronomist
Netafim Irrigation, Inc.
5470 E. Home Ave.
Fresno, CA 93727
(888) NETAFIM
Fax: (209) 453-6803
jpier@mindspring.com
Alan S. Wicks wrote:
) Greetings,
) While looking through the archived material on Iron Problems I came
) across a note from Iian Barr wherein he said that he had copies
) available of a paper he presented on iron problems. However, I do not
)
) have his e-mail address.
)
) Are you still out there?? or does anyone have his e-mail address??
)
) Thanks,
)
) Alan S. Wicks
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:50:35 +0300
From: gideon oron (gidi@BGUMAIL.BGU.AC.IL)
Subject: Re: New & Revised Water Measurement Manual
Dear Sir
How is it possible to get the water measuremnt manual
Thank you
Gideon Oron
****************************************************************************
* Gideon Oron E-mail: Gidi@bgumail.bgu.ac.il *
* Ben-Gurion University of the Negev *
* The Institute for Desert Research Tel:+972-7-659-6900 *
* Kiryat Sde-Boker, 84990 Israel Fax:+972-7-659-6909 *
* and *
* Dept of Industrial Engineering and Management Tel:+972-7-647-2200 *
* Beer-Sheva, 84105 Israel Fax:+972-7-647-2958 *
****************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 21:15:44 -0600
From: FLamm@OZNET.KSU.EDU
Subject: 6th International Microirrigation Congress in South Africa??
Does anyone know the finalized dates for the 6th Microirrigation
Congress that is supposed to be in South Africa in 2000. The question
came up in a ASAE committee meeting, tonight. A quick response would
be appreciated.
Freddie Lamm
*
**********************************************************************
Freddie R. Lamm * o
Research Agricultural Engineer *** /|\
KSU Northwest Research-Extension Center *****\\
105 Experiment Farm Road *******
Colby, Kansas 67701-1697 *********
Phone: 913-462-6281 ***********
FAX: 913-462-2315 *************
E-Mail: flamm@oznet.ksu.edu It's all downhill from here!
**** There's no domain like OZ, There's no domain like OZ. ****
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 12 Aug 1997 to 13 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:25:50 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 13 Aug 1997 to 15 Aug 1997 - Special issue
There are 2 messages totalling 15418 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. subscription response
2. Where is IIAN BARR?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:58:31 -0400
From: Angela Nathan (aangolda@INFOCHAN.COM)
Subject: subscription response
I am honored to be a member of the group. I am a farmer on 90 HA of
alkaline
soil ranging from pH 7 to 8.5, the farm is on hilly terrain good drainage
but shortage of water, our water source is a spring which is entombed and
also supplies our domestic needs. I am an agronomist from agricultural
Pan-American school in Honduras "zamorano" and have experience in
vegetables, coffee, bananas, cocoa, coconuts, citrus ,dairy cattle, beef
cattle, broiler chickens, goats.
I got a design and equipment from Israel for my surface drip irrigation
system and installed it myself on 20 ha of bananas, I fertilize through the
system using urea phosphoric acid and potassium chloride, I irrigate every
other day for three hours as there is a shortage of water, one of the
problems I have is the workers accidentally cut the tubes.
I believe that if I could increase my water supply then I would have an
excellent system.
thank you all again for this opportunity.
Anthony.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:32:18 -0400
From: IlanBar@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Where is IIAN BARR?
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.15229.emout10.mail.aol.com.871673467
Content-ID: (0_15229_871673470@emout10.mail.aol.com.7404)
Content-type: text/plain
Hi everybody!
Ilan Bar is here, alive and still kicking (well, at least trying to). I'm
sorry for not being on top of my e-mail all the time but ,sure enough, I do
appreciate the great contribution of Trickle-L to the industry. Special
thanks to Bryan, Tim and Jerome for trying to locate me.
Dear Alan!
Attached, please find my paper on Iron Control.Please contact me if further
information is needed.
Best regards!
Ilan Bar.
[This archivist has deleted what was an offensive-to-common-sense attachment.]
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 13 Aug 1997 to 15 Aug 1997 - Special issue
********************************************************************
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 00:02:07 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 15 Aug 1997
There are 5 messages totalling 127 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Where is IIAN BARR? (4)
2. Where is IIAN BARR
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:52:59 -0400
From: "Michael P. Lydon" (ride0126@RIDE.RI.NET)
Subject: Re: Where is IIAN BARR?
To List-Server Manager,
In my opinion, messages of this length or attachments should not be
permitted on this listserv. It would be more informative for the author
to send a short summary of his document and let each of us decide wether
we would like a full copy of the whole document.
My mail reader, Eudora, could not handle messages or attachments this
size and I found it necessary to have my provider delete Mr Barrs
message from my providers internet server.
I am curious what my fellow Trickle-L users think about this issue.
Mike Lydon
Lydon Family Tomatoes
Rhode Island
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 05:47:04 -0800
From: Robert Carian (grapegrower@EARTHLINK.NET)
Subject: Re: Where is IIAN BARR?
)Attached, please find my paper on Iron Control.Please contact me if further
)information is needed.
)Best regards!
)Ilan Bar.
Only a mo mo would send a 1 meg file to everyone on a email list. Ask
your friend Alan wicks how to use your email properly to reply just to
him... as it should've been done.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:46:11 -0400
From: Mike & Dawn Lydon (ride0126@RIDE.RI.NET)
Subject: Re: Where is IIAN BARR
To List-Server Manager,
In my opinion, messages of this length or attachments should not be
permitted on this listserv. It would be more informative for the author
to send a short summary of his document and let each of us decide wether
we would like a full copy of the whole document.
My mail reader, Eudora, could not handle messages or attachments this
size and I found it necessary to have my provider delete Mr Barrs
message from my providers internet server.
I am curious what my fellow Trickle-L users think about this issue.
Mike Lydon
Lydon Family Tomatoes
Rhode Island
)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:49:31 -0400
From: "Peter D. Spyke" (pdspyke@GATE.NET)
Subject: Re: Where is IIAN BARR?
I agree. You have my vote to advise people to not send monster files.
They would be best handled on an individual basis.
Pete Spyke
At 07:52 PM 8/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
)To List-Server Manager,
)
)In my opinion, messages of this length or attachments should not be
)permitted on this listserv. It would be more informative for the author
)to send a short summary of his document and let each of us decide wether
)we would like a full copy of the whole document.
)My mail reader, Eudora, could not handle messages or attachments this
)size and I found it necessary to have my provider delete Mr Barrs
)message from my providers internet server.
)
)I am curious what my fellow Trickle-L users think about this issue.
)
)Mike Lydon
)Lydon Family Tomatoes
)Rhode Island
)
)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:40:59 -0600
From: Frank Redmond (palmspring@BTL.NET)
Subject: Re: Where is IIAN BARR?
Mr Lydon wrote :,
)
) In my opinion, messages of this length or attachments should not be
) permitted on this listserv. It would be more informative for the
) author to send a short summary of his document and let each of us
) decide wether we would like a full copy of the whole document. My
) mail reader, Eudora, could not handle messages or attachments this
) size and I found it necessary to have my provider delete Mr Barrs
) message from my providers internet server.
)
absolutely right.
FR
Palm Springs Farm
Frank Redmond
Box 13 - Mile 60
San Ignacio, BELIZE
Tel-Fax: (501)9-23353
Email: palmspring@btl.net
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 15 Aug 1997
*************************************
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 00:00:29 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 15 Aug 1997 to 16 Aug 1997
There are 7 messages totalling 151 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Where is IIAN BARR? (3)
2. who the hell is IIan Barr (2)
3. I'm still running the list Mr. Carian (2)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 07:16:13 -0400
From: Al Shields (shieldsa@ANDREWS.EDU)
Subject: Re: Where is IIAN BARR?
No problem.
Michael P. Lydon wrote:
) To List-Server Manager,
)
) In my opinion, messages of this length or attachments should not be
) permitted on this listserv. It would be more informative for the
) author
) to send a short summary of his document and let each of us decide
) wether
) we would like a full copy of the whole document.
) My mail reader, Eudora, could not handle messages or attachments this
) size and I found it necessary to have my provider delete Mr Barrs
) message from my providers internet server.
)
) I am curious what my fellow Trickle-L users think about this issue.
)
) Mike Lydon
) Lydon Family Tomatoes
) Rhode Island
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 21:17:03 -0800
From: Robert Carian (grapegrower@EARTHLINK.NET)
Subject: who the hell is IIan Barr
)Attached, please find my paper on Iron Control.Please contact me if further
)information is needed.
)Best regards!
)Ilan Bar.
Only a mo mo would send a 1 meg file to everyone on a email list. Ask
your friend Alan Wicks how to use your email properly to reply just to
him... as it should've been done.
I complained about this when R. Meade was running the list. He put out a
notice to all on the list not to send such big files to all of us. Who
ever is running the list now should do so again.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:55:05 -0700
From: Richard Mead (rmead@AGRILINK-INT.COM)
Subject: I'm still running the list Mr. Carian
Dear Mr. Carian,
Regarding your recent comment:
)I complained about this when R. Meade was running the list. He put out a
)notice to all on the list not to send such big files to all of us. Who
)ever is running the list now should do so again.
I immediately consulted with Mr. Barr after the "incident". There is not
much I can do when individuals make this error. I am personally having
email receiving problems through my list owner account due to this
occurrence but I will not pull a knee jerk reaction. I can assure you that
Ilan's intentions were good and Trickle-L will survive this email blunder.
History repeats itself and it will probably happen again because people
don't read my warnings. I have requested that Ilan send me his paper and I
can post it on the MIF web site.
Let's all have a little more patience. We've become spoiled in this digital
age.
Richard Mead
Trickle-L and MIF owner/manager
www.mif.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:54:21 -0600
From: Rick Simpson (bcsl@POBOX.COM)
Subject: Re: Where is IIAN BARR?
As an email only user at 4,800 bps you can imagine what havoc is
created when someone uploads a huge file. This is especially
disconcerting when one pays $60.00 per month plus $8.00 per hour for
use of a server. Everyone should exercise a little discretion
when posting large files. It may be OK for those with 28.8 modems
and above but not for those of us "in the bush." If Mr. Barr is
"listening" I'm sure he now understands.
Rick Simpson
Banana Bank
Belmopan, Belize
) Michael P. Lydon wrote:
)
) ) To List-Server Manager,
) )
) ) In my opinion, messages of this length or attachments should not
) ) be permitted on this listserv
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 23:55:54 -0400
From: Tim1Utah@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Where is IIAN BARR?
I handle all of Ilan's hate mail for him since he is too nice
to respond. The information was requested, he thought it was of general
interest, ergo the attatchment. I wasn't interested, therefore, I did not
download the attatchment. Get some software that gives you the choice and
then use your own free agency to make an informed decision.
P.S. Thanks Ilan for responding!! How are you these days?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 00:15:18 -0400
From: Tim1Utah@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: who the hell is IIan Barr
To answer the question "Who the hell is Ilan Barr," he is
someone who has forgotten more about irrigation then most "grapegrowers." Can
we show a little understanding and civility on this list please? I see more
people responding to this then to issues that really affect drip irrigation.
Tim W. Why some people have to resort to personal offenses for a simple
mistake is beyond me.
While we are making comlaints to the head of this list, may I comlain
about offensive language and personal attacks that are repatedly made by some
individuals? Thank you. Tim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 00:16:16 -0400
From: Tim1Utah@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: I'm still running the list Mr. Carian
Amen
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 15 Aug 1997 to 16 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 00:00:05 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 16 Aug 1997 to 17 Aug 1997
There are 7 messages totalling 161 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. I'm still running the list Mr. Carian (3)
2. who the hell is IIan Barr (2)
3. Farming in Honduras
4. comments on your subscription response
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 01:09:35 -0400
From: "Dexter M.Ferry Sr." (Demofe1@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: I'm still running the list Mr. Carian
I agree with Mr meade the reaction was far out of proportion to the fault.
Dexter M.Ferry Sr.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:46:34 -0600
From: "L.G. Smith" (smitty@BRIGHTOK.NET)
Subject: Re: who the hell is IIan Barr
Tim1Utah@AOL.COM wrote:
)
) To answer the question "Who the hell is Ilan Barr," he is
) someone who has forgotten more about irrigation then most "grapegrowers." Can
) we show a little understanding and civility on this list please? I see more
) people responding to this then to issues that really affect drip irrigation.
) Tim W. Why some people have to resort to personal offenses for a simple
) mistake is beyond me.
)
) While we are making comlaints to the head of this list, may I comlain
) about offensive language and personal attacks that are repatedly made by some
) individuals? Thank you. Tim
I agree 100% with Tim, Richard, and Dexter. I thought some came down on
Ilan just a little hard. Its not as though he made the only mistake
ever!!!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:16:02 -0400
From: Angela Nathan (aangolda@INFOCHAN.COM)
Subject: Re: Farming in Honduras
Rick
My apologies for not saying that I live in Jamaica.
Never the less, I too am about to venture into the world of vegetables and
intend to start off with escallion.
FHIA Fundacion Hondurena de Investigacion Agricola
Apdo' 2067
San Pedro Sula
Honduras
Tel:(504)68-2470 ,68-2078 Fax:(504)68-2313
ANTHONY
Kingston,Jamaica
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:59:00 -0400
From: Angela Nathan (aangolda@INFOCHAN.COM)
Subject: Re: comments on your subscription response
Becky
I 'm afraid to say that my water problem is greater than I briefly
described in my subscription.
I have a pond which is part of the water table in the side of the hill 250
m above sea level and the spring is 230 m asl. We have so far this year had
475 mm of rain and the average rainfall is 1750 mm per year. I turn on
the pump for three hours every other day but have three shifts therefore it
takes six days to get back to the first shift.
My thoughts now are that I need to have less area to irrigate to get the
right production from the bananas to be profitable. I am also about to
clean and deepen the pond to see if I can increase the flow.
Comments would be appreciated.
ANTHONY
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:09:09 -0500
From: David Venhuizen (waterguy@IX.NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: I'm still running the list Mr. Carian
Richard Mead wrote:
)
) Dear Mr. Carian,
)
) Regarding your recent comment:
)
) )I complained about this when R. Meade was running the list. He put out a
) )notice to all on the list not to send such big files to all of us. Who
) )ever is running the list now should do so again.
)
) I immediately consulted with Mr. Barr after the "incident". There is not
) much I can do when individuals make this error. I am personally having
) email receiving problems through my list owner account due to this
) occurrence but I will not pull a knee jerk reaction. I can assure you that
) Ilan's intentions were good and Trickle-L will survive this email blunder.
) History repeats itself and it will probably happen again because people
) don't read my warnings. I have requested that Ilan send me his paper and I
) can post it on the MIF web site.
)
) Let's all have a little more patience. We've become spoiled in this digital
) age.
)
) Richard Mead
) Trickle-L and MIF owner/manager
) www.mif.org
Yeah, what's the big deal anyway?! My e-mail service just gave me a
message that the posting exceeded some preset maximum length and gave me
the option of downloading the full document or not. If your service
doesn't offer this convenience, then maybe you need to change services
if this is of such earth-shattering importance to you. This bitching
about something YOU can fix is juvenile.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:29:36 -0500
From: David Venhuizen (waterguy@IX.NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: I'm still running the list Mr. Carian
Y'all just QUIT, okay?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 21:05:28 -0800
From: Robert Carian (grapegrower@EARTHLINK.NET)
Subject: Re: who the hell is IIan Barr
)To answer the question "Who the hell is Ilan Barr," he is
)someone who has forgotten more about irrigation then most "grapegrowers." Can
)we show a little understanding and civility on this list please? I see more
)people responding to this then to issues that really affect drip irrigation.
) Tim W. Why some people have to resort to personal offenses for a simple
)mistake is beyond me.
)
) While we are making complaints to the head of this list, may I comlain
)about offensive language and personal attacks that are repatedly made by some
)individuals? Thank you. Tim
To IIan - my apologies for any offense given by me.
To tim
I try my hand at a littler humor and everyone gets upset. But let me be
clear on 1 thing. It's the "grapegrowers" of the world that spend the $$
to put ideas into action. Academia is good, but practical experience
bought and paid for with your own sweat, time and money is worth more
than book smarts any day. Write me directly tim if you should care to
compare "notes". And get a spell checker.
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 16 Aug 1997 to 17 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 00:01:53 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 17 Aug 1997 to 18 Aug 1997
There are 6 messages totalling 230 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Where is IIAN BARR?
2. I'm still running the list Mr. Carian
3. graphing software
4. Moving right along...Drip irrigation evaluations
5. (No subject given)
6. graphing software-Best, best, best, everywhere
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 21:27:36 +1000
From: Wally Menke (wallym@OZEMAIL.COM.AU)
Subject: Re: Where is IIAN BARR?
You've screwed up my computer and server with this cr*#!
After 3 attempts and over an hour I can't finish loading off your BIG
message from my server, which means I can't get to my other 30 messages.
I thought the message was clear after the last time that this was
unacceptable on Trickle L
Wally Menke
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:31:33 -0700
From: "Sandhar, Nishan" (nsandhar@ACCESS-HEALTH.COM)
Subject: Re: I'm still running the list Mr. Carian
I find it very useful if at the bottom of EACH message that goes out to
the list, there is a quick, 2-line summary about the list, similar to
the following for a different list I'm on:
--
* To unsubscribe from the mrtg mailing list, send a message with the
subject: unsubscribe to mrtg-request@list.ee.ethz.ch
* Mailing list archives are at http://www.ee.ethz.ch/~slist/mrtg
Due to the fact that thir Trickle list is read all over the world, and
often by a non-technical audience, maybe a line about including large
attachments to the ENTIRE list would be good as well. I really think
this whole thing was handled rather poorly by the audience. This
incidence has sparked more traffic than any discussion I've seen so far.
-nishan
) -----Original Message-----
) From: Richard Mead [SMTP:rmead@AGRILINK-INT.COM]
) Sent: Saturday, August 16, 1997 10:55 AM
) To: TRICKLE-L@crcvms.unl.edu
) Subject: I'm still running the list Mr. Carian
)
) Dear Mr. Carian,
)
) Regarding your recent comment:
)
) )I complained about this when R. Meade was running the list. He put
) out a
) )notice to all on the list not to send such big files to all of us.
) Who
) )ever is running the list now should do so again.
)
) I immediately consulted with Mr. Barr after the "incident". There is
) not
) much I can do when individuals make this error. I am personally having
) email receiving problems through my list owner account due to this
) occurrence but I will not pull a knee jerk reaction. I can assure you
) that
) Ilan's intentions were good and Trickle-L will survive this email
) blunder.
) History repeats itself and it will probably happen again because
) people
) don't read my warnings. I have requested that Ilan send me his paper
) and I
) can post it on the MIF web site.
)
) Let's all have a little more patience. We've become spoiled in this
) digital
) age.
)
) Richard Mead
) Trickle-L and MIF owner/manager
) www.mif.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:20:06 -0800
From: Jerry Neufeld (jneufeld@FS.SCS.UNR.EDU)
Subject: graphing software
Can anyone recommend a software package which can be used to graph
data from ag. research projects? For example, I need to to graph soil
moisture and nutrient level data at different depths in the soil
profile. I have heard of the CoPlot package but have never used it.
Does anyone have experience with CoPlot? If so, any comments?
thanks,
Jerry Neufeld
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:40:49 -0700
From: Richard Mead (rmead@AGRILINK-INT.COM)
Subject: Moving right along...Drip irrigation evaluations
A recent issue of Furrow magazine had an interesting article on irrigation
system evaluations.
The article entailed the following facts for a particular farm:
- 50 acres (20 hectares) of drip irrigated apple trees
- Drip laterals paralleling tree rows had emitters every 36 in (0.9 m) with
theoretical output of 0.5 gph (2 L/hr) and required pressures of 15-20
psi (~1.00-1.40 bar).
- The pump was supposed to deliver 450 gpm (1.70 cu-m/min) at 30-35 psi
(~2.1-2.4 bar)
However, after careful evaluations of pump and emitter output, tests
revealed that the pump output was only 360 gpm (1.36 cu-m/min) at 18.5 psi
(1.28 bar) and emitter output 0.4 gph (1.5 L/hr).
Initial recommendation: Replace the pump
Following recommendations, a new pump delivered 425 gpm (1.61 cu-m/min) at
57 psi (3.9 bar) yet the filtration system could only accommodate 350 gpm
(1.32 cu-m/min) thus wasting 10.5 psi (0.7 bar). It was found was that the
pump dealer had partially closed a valve to keep the filter auto flush from
operating too often. Consequently the emitter output was still 0.4 gph (1.5
L/hr).
Second recommendation: Enlarge the filter system to handle 450 gpm (1.7
cu-m/min) and install pressure regulators.
After filter enlargement and regulator installation, pump tests revealed
600 gpm (22.27 cu-m/min) at 34 psi (2.3 bar) and emitter output came back
to normal output.
The grower is now saving $US4000 per year in pumping costs, producing
larger apple yields and using less water per unit of apples. The grower can
also operate the irrigation system less than 24 hours/day to meet peak
demand. Everything is back to par.
R. Mead's questions:
- How often in a drip irrigation system's life should the evaluation tests
be performed?
- What would affect the rate of evaluation per unit of time?
- How quickly would a perfectly designed system slide into the initial
conditions above?
- Do you think the system was designed perfectly in the first place?
- Have I left out any measurable parameter for a good irrigation system
evaluation?
Richard Mead
Trickle-L and MIF owner
www.mif.org
p.s.
I have contacted the list server administrator (different than list
owner...a higher position believe me) to see if a default paragraph
regarding certain protocols on attached files etc. could be inserted to
outgoing postings or at the very least to new subscribers. If not, the best
I can do is insert a warning on my monthly updates to the group and welcome
messages to newcomers.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 15:09:02 -0700
From: "Sandhar, Nishan" (nsandhar@ACCESS-HEALTH.COM)
Subject: (No subject given)
I'm about to have a Micro-Jet system installed into 30 acres of Walnuts
- roughly 20 year old trees. They're currently flood-irrigated. What
kinds of things do I need to be aware of in talking with the design
engineer to make sure all the bases are covered?
Nishan Sandhar
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 19:33:43 -0700
From: Sorin Damian (sorin@FRED.NET)
Subject: Re: graphing software-Best, best, best, everywhere
Well,
I'm not a Trickle specialist...just lurking around as the ..... best
future world super-specialist in drip irrigation (!)...but I can tell you
that there are few nice plotting software packages out there. I'm using in
my lab several of them depending on my purposes: GraphPad, Statistica,
Biosoft, SigmaPlot (my beloved), etc. Even the graph capabilities from
Excel or Quattro Pro are good enough.
Whatever you want's to plot ( a cartesian plot) can be easily done in any
of the abovementioned softw. packages.
Best regards to everybody !
PS. I want to start a small scale raspberry culture (in my spare time..at
midnight, when I'm not sweating in the hood) . How am I going to use drip
irrigation to implement my culture? Like , best hosing, best emmiters, best
digital timers...etc.
Sounds like a childish question, but, hey, I can afford it at my age.
Any friendly and professional advice ill be more than welcomed.
Best regards to everyone !
sorin
At 02:20 PM 8/18/97 -0800, you wrote:
) Can anyone recommend a software package which can be used to graph
) data from ag. research projects? For example, I need to to graph soil
) moisture and nutrient level data at different depths in the soil
) profile. I have heard of the CoPlot package but have never used it.
) Does anyone have experience with CoPlot? If so, any comments?
)
) thanks,
) Jerry Neufeld
)
)
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 17 Aug 1997 to 18 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 00:02:35 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 18 Aug 1997 to 19 Aug 1997
There are 5 messages totalling 196 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Drip irrigation evaluations
2. graphing software
3. I'm still running the list Mr. Carian
4. who the hell is IIan Barr (2)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:13:25 -0500
From: "W. Bryan Smith" (wsmth@CLEMSON.EDU)
Subject: Re: Drip irrigation evaluations
Richard,
I ran into a similar situation about 10 years ago - the problem
there was with the emitters themselves. They were old "DPC" style
emitters with a manual flush button. Intially set up for 1 gallon
per hour (4 L/h), at that time they had degraded down to 0.6 gph.
The rest of the system was intact. We replaced emitters - that's the
only case I remember requiring emitter replacement. How did we find
it? The grower suspected his trees were not getting enough water
compared with 5 to 10 years' previous experience.
Regarding your questions:
) - How often in a drip irrigation system's life should the evaluation tests
) be performed?
A simple flow check should probably be done every year a week or so
after start-up. More intensive pump tests (flow .vs. pressure) and
filter tests (pressure loss and cleaning interval) every three years,
maybe?
) - What would affect the rate of evaluation per unit of time?
The cleanliness of the irrigation water and the amount of chemicals
injected. High sand content in irrigation water could wear a pump
impeller pretty quickly! Possible chemical/fertilizer buildups may
also cause problems if these injections are managed improperly.
) - How quickly would a perfectly designed system slide into the initial
) conditions above?
In irrigation water with a great deal of sand to wear a pump
impeller, or with improper management, maybe in 6 months?
) - Do you think the system was designed perfectly in the first place?
Doubtful, since they had to replace the filtering system to allow
the original design flow. Sounds like the field system was probably
designed correctly, but the pump/filter station seems to have been
undersized.
) - Have I left out any measurable parameter for a good irrigation system
) evaluation?
Gee whiz! I guess he could check net water applied per tree .vs.
what is required to make sure he is applying enough water ( and then
we get into those large discussions about how much is enough!)
Nice article, Richard. Makes us all stop and think ....
Bryan
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
W. Bryan Smith
Area Extension Agent - Irrigation / Water Quality
Clemson Extension Service
P.O. Box 160, Newberry, South Carolina 29108 USA
Office: 803 276-1091 FAX: 803 276-1095
Internet: wsmth@clemson.edu
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
All opinions are my own and not reflective of the
policies of Clemson University or the Cooperative
Extension Service.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 08:40:08 -0700
From: Marty Grogan (ges@OWT.COM)
Subject: Re: graphing software
) Can anyone recommend a software package which can be used to graph
) data from ag. research projects? For example, I need to to graph soil
) moisture and nutrient level data at different depths in the soil
) profile. I have heard of the CoPlot package but have never used it.
) Does anyone have experience with CoPlot? If so, any comments?
)
) thanks,
) Jerry Neufeld
)
)
EXCEL or any generic spreadsheet software. Higher end packages for more
complex use can be located through "Personal Engineering" magazine ads,
i.e., DaDSP, MatLAB, LabView and MathCAD. There are many.
M. G.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 08:45:52 -0700
From: Dean Reynolds (dreynold@CD-ESO.WATER.CA.GOV)
Subject: Re: I'm still running the list Mr. Carian
Here, here Richard ...
) Dear Mr. Carian,
)
) Regarding your recent comment:
)
) )I complained about this when R. Meade was running the list. He put
) out a
) )notice to all on the list not to send such big files to all of us.
) Who
) )ever is running the list now should do so again.
)
) I immediately consulted with Mr. Barr after the "incident". There is
) not
) much I can do when individuals make this error. I am personally having
)
) email receiving problems through my list owner account due to this
) occurrence but I will not pull a knee jerk reaction. I can assure you
) that
) Ilan's intentions were good and Trickle-L will survive this email
) blunder.
) History repeats itself and it will probably happen again because
) people
) don't read my warnings. I have requested that Ilan send me his paper
) and I
) can post it on the MIF web site.
)
) Let's all have a little more patience. We've become spoiled in this
) digital
) age.
)
) Richard Mead
) Trickle-L and MIF owner/manager
) www.mif.org
--
**************************************************
Dean Reynolds
Associate Land and Water Use Analyst
California Department of Water Resources
3251 S Street
Sacramento, CA 95816 USA
Phone: 916-227-7638
Fax: 916-227-7600
email: dreynold@water.ca.gov
**************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:06:40 -0400
From: IlanBar@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: who the hell is IIan Barr
Well, now is my turn to respond.
1.First and foremost I would like to apologize to all of you which my
miserable mistake caused them problems.(Wally M., Rick S. and others).
The Iron paper is now posted on the Microirrigation Forum in a self -
extracting zip file and the downloading time is about 2 minutes.
Allen W., Camilo A., Casper dP., Julian, and others! Please let me know if
you have any problems retrieving the requested information.
2.I appreciate Robert Carian's apology.As a farmer, I hear you and fully
understand your comments about practical experience and sweat, but I won't
try to compare their importance to books.Would you agree with me that both
are very important, and there is no need to grade them?
3.To Tim my friend! I thank you and appreciate ,a bunch, your courage,
camaraderie and honesty by sticking your neck about 11/2 mi. out to defend
me, but what is much more important, to save the integrity of the list.
The same applies to Sandhar N., David V., L.G.Smith, Dexter M.F., Peter D.S.,
Al S., Frank R., Mike L. and others. Thank you for your honorable response.
4. I always envy human beings that never will make, do make, or made a
mistake in their life, and can draw instantaneously, well proven conclusions
about me, peoples and all the universe- all based on a poor incident.
Last but not least, I would like to thank Richard Mead for the
leadership he has demonstrated on dealing with this problem in such an
honorable fasion.
That's what I had to say, and now let's go back to our sacred
mission of feeding the world.
Ilan Bar.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 00:58:06 -0400
From: Tim1Utah@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: who the hell is IIan Barr
Ilan, you are a prince among men and a god of irrigation. Stai bravo amico
mio!! Tim
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 18 Aug 1997 to 19 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 00:02:43 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 19 Aug 1997 to 20 Aug 1997
There are 8 messages totalling 298 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Moving right along...Drip irrigation evaluations
2. who the hell is IIan Barr (2)
3. Discussion on EU% and Pressure Variation
4. IIAN BARR
5. Iron information now available on the web
6. Oil clogging problems in buried drip (2)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:57:22 +0800
From: Mitch Sala-Tenna (mitch@SALA-TENNA.COM.AU)
Subject: Re: Moving right along...Drip irrigation evaluations
) R. Mead's questions:
)
) - How often in a drip irrigation system's life should the evaluation tests
) be performed?
)
Ideally at the start of each irrigation season or whenever the annual
maintenance is carried out. Also whenever there seems to be a problem
with running cost or ($)return per unit of water.
The irrigation system designer should estimate the running costs and
expected water usage for the crop being watered. This can be compared to
the Department of Agriculture's (or similar body's) crop water use
information and then compared to actual amounts being used. (I assume
most irrigators can account for their water use- if not they should).
If there is a discrepancy then a system evaluation (irrigation audit)
should be carried out.
) - What would affect the rate of evaluation per unit of time?
)
As a system gets older more attention should be paid to it's
performance. The irrigation system designer or material suppier can give
you an estimate of good working life expectancy for the materials being
used. Also as time moves on water supplies become under increasing
pressure and the opportunity cost of water increases, both good reasons
for making sure you are using water to it's best (economic) efficiency.
) - How quickly would a perfectly designed system slide into the initial
) conditions above?
)
The harsher the water source the sooner the decay of the pumping system
and filter system. There is also the problem of deposits forming in
piping systems and blocking nozzles as well as corrosion and erosion at
valves and filters.
A typical design life for a pumping system is 10,000 hours, filter
screens 2-5 years, filter sand 2-5 years, sprinklers (including micro
sprinklers) 5 years and chemical/fertilizer injection equipment 2-3
years (longer for corrosion resistant materials). Pipe and valves seem
to have an indefinite life as long as they are installed correctly and
operated within their reccommended range.
) - Do you think the system was designed perfectly in the first place?
)Without proper water quality evaluation this scenario is quite common. The benefit of hindsight always makes a system with problems seem poorly designed but a designer can only make reccommendations based on the available information. It is very common for the first grower in the district to end up with all sorts of problems that can be designed around later. Unfortunately someone has to be the guinea pig and it is usually the one who cannot go any longer with the status quo and has to make a change.
) - Have I left out any measurable parameter for a good irrigation system
) evaluation?
The two most basic evaluation parameters are running cost and water
usage. The final evaluation is the profit making ability of the
enterprise which the irrigation designer can only point the irrigator in
a particular direction. Ultimately it is the user who makes or breaks a
system and there are plenty of good operators who make changes to their
systems every season to get closer to perfection.
)
)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:54:06 -0400
From: Irrometer@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: who the hell is IIan Barr
In a message dated 97-08-19 16:20:05 EDT, you write:
) That's what I had to say, and now let's go back to our sacred
)mission of feeding the world.
)Ilan Bar.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bill Pogue, Irrometer Company Inc.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:08:14 -0400
From: "Peter D. Spyke" (pdspyke@GATE.NET)
Subject: Re: who the hell is IIan Barr
Ilan,
This is an extremely thoughtful and gracious response. Thank you.
It should serve well to put this discussion to bed and allow the
list to move on to business.
Pete Spyke
At 04:06 PM 8/19/97 -0400, you wrote:
) Well, now is my turn to respond.
)1.First and foremost I would like to apologize to all of you which my
)miserable mistake caused them problems.(Wally M., Rick S. and others).
)The Iron paper is now posted on the Microirrigation Forum in a self -
)extracting zip file and the downloading time is about 2 minutes.
)Allen W., Camilo A., Casper dP., Julian, and others! Please let me know if
)you have any problems retrieving the requested information.
)2.I appreciate Robert Carian's apology.As a farmer, I hear you and fully
)understand your comments about practical experience and sweat, but I won't
)try to compare their importance to books.Would you agree with me that both
)are very important, and there is no need to grade them?
)3.To Tim my friend! I thank you and appreciate ,a bunch, your courage,
)camaraderie and honesty by sticking your neck about 11/2 mi. out to defend
)me, but what is much more important, to save the integrity of the list.
)The same applies to Sandhar N., David V., L.G.Smith, Dexter M.F., Peter D.S.,
)Al S., Frank R., Mike L. and others. Thank you for your honorable response.
)4. I always envy human beings that never will make, do make, or made a
)mistake in their life, and can draw instantaneously, well proven conclusions
)about me, peoples and all the universe- all based on a poor incident.
) Last but not least, I would like to thank Richard Mead for the
)leadership he has demonstrated on dealing with this problem in such an
)honorable fasion.
) That's what I had to say, and now let's go back to our sacred
)mission of feeding the world.
)Ilan Bar.
)
)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:15:49 -0700
From: Graham Hutchinson (hutch@BMI.NET)
Subject: Discussion on EU% and Pressure Variation
Hi everyone
I am interested in your thoughts and ideas on design standards for drip
tape. It seems that drip tape design has gone down the road of EU whereas
sprinklers, microsprinklers, jets, and drippers are designed with pressure
variation. A common design standard for drip tape that I run across is a
block EU of 87%. Designers and growers (melons etc.) seem happy with this.
A common design standard for sprinklers, micro, and drip seems to be +/-
10% of pressure.
An EU of 87% can have a pressure variation of 60% or more (about the
average pressure). To someone used to designing sprinklers and micro -
this raises some eyebrows. How can a system be so good, but hydraulically
be so poor when thought of in a traditional context? EU does not directly
consider maximum pressures in a block. It considers the minimum pressure
over the average pressure. EU calculations are also dominated by the
manufacturers coefficient of variation.
If anyone knows the history of how EU became the standard for drip tape I
would be very interested.
I know an excellent grower who farms a very large area using drip tape.
His requirement for drip tape is 87% and he is very happy with the
uniformity of his crop at that level. In my own mind I rationalise the
large pressure variation (and flow variation) by thinking that the
efficiency of putting water to the roots of every plant out weighs the
higher pressure and flow variations.
Drip tape is growing into other markets now, e.g., trees and vines. If you
designed a non pressure compensated dripper system for grapes, it is likely
that you would design to a pressure variation of +/- 10%. If you use heavy
wall drip tape for the same project, would you design to pressure variation
or EU? If EU, what would be your standard? In my own mind I am not
comforable carrying an EU design standard of 87% into permanent
trees/vines. A drip tape with an inlet pressure of 10 psi may have an
average pressure of 7 psi. A pressure variation of +/- 10% is only 1.5
psi.
I look forward to your thoughts on all of this.
Graham Hutchinson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:56:30 -0700
From: "Agricultural Supply, Inc." (esc@ADNC.COM)
Subject: IIAN BARR
)Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:51:15
)To: trickle-l-request@crcvms.unl.edu
)From: "Agricultural Supply, Inc." (esc@adnc.com)
)Subject: IIAN BARR
)Cc:
)Our company Agricultural Supply, Inc. received an e-mail through trickle-l
)on Monday, which is either too big, or in some other way defective. The e-mail
)will not download, yet it continues to try, blocking all other e-mail which
)has come after it. We get an error message to which the only responce is
)"OK". We do not care about this particular message, but we have 30 or so
)other messages behind it, which we cannot receive. Can you please help us
)to rectify this situation?
)
)Please send any e-mail to agsupply@adnc.com, since we cannot receive any
)e-mail at this address. Any service or advice you can provide will be greatly
)appreciated.
)
) Thank You,
)
) Sue Story
)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:18:02 -0700
From: Richard Mead (rmead@AGRILINK-INT.COM)
Subject: Iron information now available on the web
Ilan Barr's iron information paper ( Iron Control System For Drip
Irrigation) is now available on the World Wide Web at the Microirrigation
Forum web site. The specific URL is http://www.mif.org/ironin.html
Let's start discussing this information specifically and leave the previous
ramblings behind us.
Life moves on and so should we.
Sincerely,
Richard Mead
Trickle-L traffic cop :-)
www.mif.org
p.s.
Regarding Sue Story's email problems, if any one knows how to remedy her
situation, please contact her personally and NOT the list. I have some
ideas, yet will also contact her outside this medium.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:44:55 -0400
From: Merriott@AOL.COM
Subject: Oil clogging problems in buried drip
Was talking to a gentleman today here in Texas. A lot of folks around here
have oil lubricated turbine pumps in their wells. He has one of these
supplying his buried drip system and is having problems with what appears to
be an oil sludge building up on the -outside- of his filter screen. Globs of
this chocolate milk colored substance are breaking off and clogging the
emitters. He has switched to a 'water soluble' oil which is supposed to
lessen this problem, but there is apparently enough 'old oil' in the well to
still do damage. He has also tried chlorinating the well, and apparently
this helped, leading me to believe there might also be a biological component
to this sludge. Any thoughts or suggestions for a possible fix?
Randall Merriott
Equipment Supply Co., Inc.
Lubbock, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:47:25 -0700
From: Nick Macris (bugman@LIGHTSPEED.NET)
Subject: Re: Oil clogging problems in buried drip
The same thing happened to me several years ago. My water table dropped to
below the depth of the bowls on the pipe and my system got full of oil. I
had to add 20' of more pipe in my well!
Nick Macris
----------
) From: Merriott@AOL.COM
) To: TRICKLE-L@crcvms.unl.edu
) Subject: Oil clogging problems in buried drip
) Date: Wednesday, August 20, 1997 8:44 PM
)
) Was talking to a gentleman today here in Texas. A lot of folks around
here
) have oil lubricated turbine pumps in their wells. He has one of these
) supplying his buried drip system and is having problems with what appears
to
) be an oil sludge building up on the -outside- of his filter screen.
Globs of
) this chocolate milk colored substance are breaking off and clogging the
) emitters. He has switched to a 'water soluble' oil which is supposed to
) lessen this problem, but there is apparently enough 'old oil' in the well
to
) still do damage. He has also tried chlorinating the well, and apparently
) this helped, leading me to believe there might also be a biological
component
) to this sludge. Any thoughts or suggestions for a possible fix?
)
) Randall Merriott
) Equipment Supply Co., Inc.
) Lubbock, Texas
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 19 Aug 1997 to 20 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 00:01:51 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 20 Aug 1997 to 21 Aug 1997
There are 4 messages totalling 149 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Oil clogging problems in buried drip (2)
2. gypsum as a soil improver
3. who the hell is IIan Barr
Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 22:15:14 +1000
From: Wally Menke (wallym@OZEMAIL.COM.AU)
Subject: Re: Oil clogging problems in buried drip
At 11:44 PM 20/08/97 -0400, you wrote:
)Was talking to a gentleman today here in Texas. A lot of folks around here
)have oil lubricated turbine pumps in their wells. He has one of these
)supplying his buried drip system and is having problems with what appears to
)be an oil sludge building up on the -outside- of his filter screen. Globs of
)this chocolate milk colored substance are breaking off and clogging the
)emitters. He has switched to a 'water soluble' oil which is supposed to
)lessen this problem, but there is apparently enough 'old oil' in the well to
)still do damage. He has also tried chlorinating the well, and apparently
)this helped, leading me to believe there might also be a biological component
)to this sludge. Any thoughts or suggestions for a possible fix?
)
)Randall Merriott
)Equipment Supply Co., Inc.
)Lubbock, Texas
)
What about a detergent poured down the well that will break down/disolve the
oil (and add some Phosphurse as a fertilizer)?
Wally Menke
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 21:34:50 +0800
From: Mitch Sala-Tenna (mitch@SALA-TENNA.COM.AU)
Subject: gypsum as a soil improver
I have a client who has a soil water storage problem due to the very
light sandy soil on his property and as his advisor I am looking at
whether a water borne soil conditioner such as gypsum would improve his
water holding capacity.
The soil is a coarse (2mm diameter) sandy soil with small amounts of
organic matter but little else. The irrigation history is one in which a
lot of overwatering and leaching has occurred. This has been rectified
but I still feel that we could do better irrigation with an improved
water holding capacity of the soil.
If gypsum is a suitable soil conditioner in this case what would the
application rate per hectare or concentration in the irrigation water
be?
If gypsum is not suitable is there another (preferrably naturally
sourced) soil conditioner that may help us?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 10:03:36 -0700
From: Jerome Pier (jpier@MINDSPRING.COM)
Subject: Re: Oil clogging problems in buried drip
Merriott@AOL.COM wrote:
) Was talking to a gentleman today here in Texas. A lot of folks around
) here
) have oil lubricated turbine pumps in their wells...
[stuff deleted]
I believe that the chlorine works as an oxidizing agent to break down
the organic moleules of oil. This sounds like th best solution (so to
speak). Jerry Funck, Netafim Sales Rep. in Lubbbock, mentioned to me a
similar problem another grower in the area was having with oil. Treating
both the well and the drip system with shock doses of chlorine (100 -
500 ppm free chlorine) should help. He also might consider a more
agressive form of filtration, such as sand media tanks, which would
provide more filtration to catch the oil before it enters the drip
system. Chlorination should then occur before the filter to remove oil
from the media. Be careful with how you handle your filter backflush
water during the chlorination.
Has anyone on the list successfully used detergents to clean oil
from a drip system. This sounds like it might work but I would be
nervous to do it while there was a crop in production. It's possible one
could try detergent after th crop is out of the ground and then turn on
the system during a rain to flush the detergent from the soil.
Clearly this is a problem that will crop up again and again in the
West Texas High Plains. I look forward to any other ideas and
experiences from the list.
Jerome Pier
Agronomist
Netafim USA
jpier@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 21:02:24 -0600
From: John Hays (jhays@CAVERNS.COM)
Subject: Re: who the hell is IIan Barr
How the hell do I get my Eudora Pro email program back. Let me know at my
email add. I am back on my MicroSoft mailer.
----------
) From: IlanBar@AOL.COM
) To: TRICKLE-L@crcvms.unl.edu
) Subject: Re: who the hell is IIan Barr
) Date: Tuesday, August 19, 1997 2:06 PM
)
) Well, now is my turn to respond.
) 1.First and foremost I would like to apologize to all of you which my
) miserable mistake caused them problems.(Wally M., Rick S. and others).
) The Iron paper is now posted on the Microirrigation Forum in a self -
) extracting zip file and the downloading time is about 2 minutes.
) Allen W., Camilo A., Casper dP., Julian, and others! Please let me know
if
) you have any problems retrieving the requested information.
) 2.I appreciate Robert Carian's apology.As a farmer, I hear you and fully
) understand your comments about practical experience and sweat, but I
won't
) try to compare their importance to books.Would you agree with me that
both
) are very important, and there is no need to grade them?
) 3.To Tim my friend! I thank you and appreciate ,a bunch, your courage,
) camaraderie and honesty by sticking your neck about 11/2 mi. out to
defend
) me, but what is much more important, to save the integrity of the list.
) The same applies to Sandhar N., David V., L.G.Smith, Dexter M.F., Peter
D.S.,
) Al S., Frank R., Mike L. and others. Thank you for your honorable
response.
) 4. I always envy human beings that never will make, do make, or made a
) mistake in their life, and can draw instantaneously, well proven
conclusions
) about me, peoples and all the universe- all based on a poor incident.
) Last but not least, I would like to thank Richard Mead for the
) leadership he has demonstrated on dealing with this problem in such an
) honorable fasion.
) That's what I had to say, and now let's go back to our sacred
) mission of feeding the world.
) Ilan Bar.
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 20 Aug 1997 to 21 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 00:01:01 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 21 Aug 1997 to 22 Aug 1997
There are 8 messages totalling 284 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Fwd: you are now showing your !.Q. (3)
2. Oil clogging problems in buried drip
3. Discussion on EU% and Pressure Variation
4. Calcium, Chlorine, Chemistry and Salinity
5. Aggressive Yellow Green Algae
6. graphing software
Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 02:19:26 -0400
From: Tim1Utah@AOL.COM
Subject: Fwd: you are now showing your !.Q.
Mr. Mead, I continue to get harrassing messages from this guy, could you
please address this issue? Tim W.
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: grapegrower@earthlink.net (Robert Carian)
To: Tim1Utah@aol.com (Tim)
Date: 97-08-21 05:08:44 EDT
)Ilan, you are a prince among men and a god of irrigation. Stai bravo amico
)mio!! Tim
You know, you are the only ass still writing about this. do you not know
how to send email to ONLY 1 person. You are truly a mental midget.
Visit us on the web at www.carian.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 06:06:27 -0400
From: Angela Nathan (aangolda@INFOCHAN.COM)
Subject: Re: Oil clogging problems in buried drip
Randal
I had the same problem with oil in the wells which were some 250 feet deep,
what we did was take out the pumps and shafts and swab out the oil. If you
are still interested I can get the details from the co. that did the job.
Are your wells very old ? Or has the water level dropped ?
ANTHONY
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 15:09:25 +0200
From: "barber.a" (barber.a@CLEAR.NET.NZ)
Subject: Re: Discussion on EU% and Pressure Variation
Hi All
In response to Graham Hutchinson comments, the first par. of which is
below.
I have been frustrated by the design specifications supplied with drip
tape. I can't lay my hands on specific examples right now as I am
traveling through the UK and The Netherlands right now. But these are my
general thoughts.
The EU's that are supplied by tape manufacturers are insufficient if you
happen to be designing an irrigation system outside of what they cover. I
am referring to often having EU's for flat ground or with a 1or 2% slope.
I have been unable to source design spec.'s, like you can get (sometimes)
for single emitters or sprinklers, that show flow vs. pressure. That way
when designing how long a run can be and the size of a block the designer
has the flexibility to choose the appropriate flow variability and hence
run and block size.
This flexibility is needed as with lower value crops like sugar cane (not a
good NZ example but you get the idea) you are often prepared to accept a
greater
flow variation than you would with a higher value crop, like for example
grapes.
I figure the information must be available or else how were the EU figures
produced?
One other thing that Graham referred to was a pressure variation of +/-
10%. Is it not better to refer to +/- x% FLOW variation. After all that
is what we are interested in at the end of the day. For example if you
were prepared to accept a flow variation of +/- 7.5% the actual pressure
variation that you design to may vary enormously depending on the type of
outlet. It means working from a certain flow variation to determine the
pressure variation that can be used in the design.
This ties back into needing to know the pressure and flow characteristics
of the drip tape outlets.
I'm interested in others comments
Cheers
Andrew
Andrew Barber
Engineering Consultant
Agriculture New Zealand
e-mail barber.a@clear.net.nz
ph: +64 9 2389613 fax: +64 9 2383774
----------
) From: Graham Hutchinson (hutch@BMI.NET)
) To: TRICKLE-L@crcvms.unl.edu
) Subject: Discussion on EU% and Pressure Variation
) Date: Wednesday, 20 August 1997 18:15
)
) Hi everyone
)
) I am interested in your thoughts and ideas on design standards for drip
) tape. It seems that drip tape design has gone down the road of EU
whereas
) sprinklers, microsprinklers, jets, and drippers are designed with
pressure
) variation. A common design standard for drip tape that I run across is a
) block EU of 87%. Designers and growers (melons etc.) seem happy with
this.
) A common design standard for sprinklers, micro, and drip seems to be +/-
) 10% of pressure.
)
) I look forward to your thoughts on all of this.
)
) Graham Hutchinson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 12:13:19 -0400
From: Mike Rutkowski (ferris@JAGAT.COM)
Subject: Re: Fwd: you are now showing your !.Q.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 12:29:36 -0400
From: "Craig A. Storlie" (storlie@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU)
Subject: Calcium, Chlorine, Chemistry and Salinity
Hi Gang:
=09I need help related to Ca injection, chlorine chemistry, and salin=
ity.=20
I was approached by a grower wondering if he could inject CaCl throug=
h
his drip system for bell peppers and tomatoes experiencing blossom-en=
d
rot. I told him that I didn=92t think any amount calcium would help
(let=92s not argue this point) but then found that my knowledge in th=
is
area is lacking when I got out pencil to paper to determine how much
CaCl is safe to apply. =20
=09I made the bold assumption that CaCl will follow a similar chemica=
l
pathway as the chlorine that we routinely inject as a biocide. In ou=
r
pH =3D 4-5 water this will result in hypochlorus acid, the disinfecti=
ng
agent of chlorine disinfection. Based on that assumption, chlorinati=
on
guidelines from several sources, and my gut feeling, I decided that t=
he
injection of more than 10-20 ppm of CaCl on a regular basis could be
harmful to plants. However, the salt tolerance threshold of tomatoes
=66rom salinity science is 2.5 dS/m, which is equal to about 1600 pp=
m
TDS. Thus , my dilemma. Why is it o.k. to irrigate with water of E=
C =3D
1600 ppm but not apply irrigation with more Cl than 10-20 ppm. Is m=
y
chemistry wacko? Is it because the chloride is particularly toxic
compared to TDS which is composed of many salts? The TDS of our wate=
r
is typically 100-200 ppm. Salinity problems are very rare except in
some tidal areas.
=09Am I missing something simple here. I would appreciate your help.=
=20
This was a new one for me.
=09How about other sources of calcium? Gypsum would work but needs t=
o be
shipped her at high cost from the, you guessed it, western U.S. (this=
is
next years solution although I suggested calcitic lime and better
overall fertility management). Plants are already lush and the amoun=
t
of Ca desired makes calcium nitrate not a possiblity. What about fol=
iar
feeding? I have a local source that produces a chelated Ca solution.=
=20
Anyone have experience with this material?
Thanks All, =20
Craig Storlie
Extension Specialist in Agricultural Engineering
Rutgers University
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:26:01 -0800
From: "Alan S. Wicks" (awicks@TELEVAR.COM)
Subject: Aggressive Yellow Green Algae
Greetings,
What we originally thought might be an iron slime bacteria turns out to
be what the lab calls Aggressive Yellow Green Algae! It comes up from
the well in small pieces and is mostly filtered out by the sock filters
in the system. However, small pieces get through and then clump
together at the smaller in-line filters and at the emitters. We have
tried the usual line-cleaners which help, but don't solve the problem.
We can drop the pH to 3 with N-Furic once in awhile, but the grower
would rather have something that could be added to the water
continously. Any ideas??
Thanks,
Alan S. Wicks
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 13:39:20 -0400
From: Dorota Haman (dorota@AGEN.UFL.EDU)
Subject: Re: Fwd: you are now showing your !.Q.
I am out all Tuesday 26 of August. I teach M,W,F, from 10:40 to 11:30 and
I need the last hour before the class so I can meet only very early - let
say 8:00 am or 8:30 on these days.I have a visitor from Chile on the 28 and
29th and an exam on 28 all afternoon.
Dorota.
At 12:13 PM 8/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
)
)Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
)or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
)obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
)Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
)
)
)
****************************************************************************
Dorota Z. Haman
Associate Professor tel:(352) 392-8432
Department of Agricultural FAX:(352) 392-4092
and Biological Engineering e-mail: dorota@agen.ufl.edu
University of Florida
Gainesville, FL 32611
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 14:13:58 -0500
From: Freddie Lamm (FLamm@OZNET.KSU.EDU)
Subject: Re: graphing software
Jerry:
We are using Axum 5.0 for Windows. It has a lot more flexibility
than the more business type graphic programs but sometimes can be a
little more difficult because it has more flexibility. I have given
up on some of the more business type graphics programs for the same
reasons you mentioned.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Freddie Lamm *
Research Agricultural Engineer *** o
KSU Northwest Research-Extension Center ***** /|\
105 Experiment Farm Road *******\\
Colby, Kansas 67701-1697 *********
Ph. 913-462-6281 ***********
FAX 913-462-2315 *************
Email:flamm@oznet.ksu.edu It's all downhill from here.
------ THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ, THERE'S NO DOMAIN LIKE OZ. ------
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 21 Aug 1997 to 22 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 00:02:31 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 22 Aug 1997 to 23 Aug 1997
There are 2 messages totalling 143 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Discussion on EU% and Pressure Variation (2)
Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 07:40:26 +0800
From: Mitch Sala-Tenna (mitch@SALA-TENNA.COM.AU)
Subject: Re: Discussion on EU% and Pressure Variation
Graham Hutchinson wrote:
)
) Hi everyone
)
) I am interested in your thoughts and ideas on design standards for drip
) tape. It seems that drip tape design has gone down the road of EU whereas
) sprinklers, microsprinklers, jets, and drippers are designed with pressure
) variation. A common design standard for drip tape that I run across is a
) block EU of 87%. Designers and growers (melons etc.) seem happy with this.
) A common design standard for sprinklers, micro, and drip seems to be +/-
) 10% of pressure.
)
) An EU of 87% can have a pressure variation of 60% or more (about the
) average pressure). To someone used to designing sprinklers and micro -
) this raises some eyebrows. How can a system be so good, but hydraulically
) be so poor when thought of in a traditional context? EU does not directly
) consider maximum pressures in a block. It considers the minimum pressure
) over the average pressure. EU calculations are also dominated by the
) manufacturers coefficient of variation.
)
) If anyone knows the history of how EU became the standard for drip tape I
) would be very interested.
)
) I know an excellent grower who farms a very large area using drip tape.
) His requirement for drip tape is 87% and he is very happy with the
) uniformity of his crop at that level. In my own mind I rationalise the
) large pressure variation (and flow variation) by thinking that the
) efficiency of putting water to the roots of every plant out weighs the
) higher pressure and flow variations.
)
) Drip tape is growing into other markets now, e.g., trees and vines. If you
) designed a non pressure compensated dripper system for grapes, it is likely
) that you would design to a pressure variation of +/- 10%. If you use heavy
) wall drip tape for the same project, would you design to pressure variation
) or EU? If EU, what would be your standard? In my own mind I am not
) comforable carrying an EU design standard of 87% into permanent
) trees/vines. A drip tape with an inlet pressure of 10 psi may have an
) average pressure of 7 psi. A pressure variation of +/- 10% is only 1.5
) psi.
)
) I look forward to your thoughts on all of this.
)
) Graham Hutchinson
The calculation of a pressure variation has to parameters to work in.
Firstly, the narrower the pressure range the designer can work within
the more choices the designer has regarding suitable product. The second
consideration is the flow tolerance. The higher the value of water (both
in based on all input costs - pumping, filtration, treatment, storage
and purchase) the more reason to have a low flow variation.
As any designer knows different products have different pressure
exponents. Typical for sprinkler and laminar flow drip is .5,
turbulent flow drip seems to reach .4 or lower. Obviously the lower the
emmitter flow exponent the greater the pressure range that emmitter can
tolerate for a given flow variation.
As regards to different standards for drip and sprinkler irrigation two
things influence flow/pressure ranges. Firstly, as a sprinkler system is
usually one which irrigates more than one plant per sprinkler and the
object of the sprinkler system (in my books anyway) is to deliver an
even application of water over the whole watered area the flow from the
nozzle and the distribution from the sprinkler is very important and
should be kept uniform. We have all seen sprinkler discharge profiles
and it is easy to see the way that pressure influences ther way the
water reaches the ground surface or crop. A large pressure variation in
a sprinkler system will cause a variation in sprinkler discharge rates
and a variation in the DU of the system. Both these factors would result
in an overall IE (irrigation efficiency) that is very low even with good
management.
Secondly, as a drip system is a point delivery system no allowance has
to be made for DU and as a result a greater flow range can be tolerated
in comparison with a sprinkler system.
If a sprinkler system had an pressure uniformity of 90% and a DU of 90%
(quite rare) the modified DU would be 81%. In this light an EU of 87% is
acceptable even though 95% would be better.
Always bear in mind that the standard manufacturing cv is .03 or 3%.
This means that even the best designed systems (PC included) can only
ever reach 97% EU or 6% actual flow range.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 07:28:03 +0200
From: Yossi Ingber (netafim@INTER.NET.IL)
Subject: Re: Discussion on EU% and Pressure Variation
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------3767763F7D7A
Dear List members ,
We at Netafim Irrigation & Drip System support the Flow Variation design
criteria , you may find the relevant information : slope+/-% ,various
F.V. levels , various levels of inlet pressure ---- for our entire
thin-wall dripperline product line.
Drop me a note (E-mail) and I will mail you a copy.
Yossi Ingber
Engineering & Technical Support
Netafim-Magal / ISRAEL
--------------3767763F7D7A
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="www.netafim.com"
(BASE HREF="www.netafim.com")
(HTML)(HEAD)(TITLE)Cache Access Denied(/TITLE)(/HEAD)
(BODY)(H1)Error(/H1)
(H2)Access Denied(/H2)
(P)
Sorry, you are not currently allowed to request:
(PRE) http://www.netafim.com/(/PRE)
from this cache. Please check with the
(A HREF="mailto:ben_vin@mail.inter.net.il")cache administrator(/A)
if you believe this is incorrect.
(P)
(A HREF="http://www.inter.net.il")Internet Gold(/A)
(HR)
(ADDRESS)
Generated by squid/1.1.11@proxy4.inter.net.il
(/ADDRESS)
--------------3767763F7D7A--
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 22 Aug 1997 to 23 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:00:16 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 23 Aug 1997 to 24 Aug 1997
There are 2 messages totalling 79 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. EU (%) vs. Flow Variation (%)
2. Fwd: you are now showing your !.Q.
Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 08:15:59 +0200
From: Yossi Ingber (netafim@INTER.NET.IL)
Subject: EU (%) vs. Flow Variation (%)
We at Netafim -- Irrigation & Drip Systems greatly support the "Flow
Variation" approach. For many years our own design department uses the
F.V. criteria as the leading criteria. It is obviously the exclusive
design procedure that is easy to double check in field.
Our literature is available with : slope (-2% to +2%) , F.V. ( 10%, 15%,
20% ) , inlet pressure .
Drop me a note via E-Mail for a copy , I will mail it to you.
Yossi Ingber
Engineering and Technical Support
Netafim-Magal / Israel
visit our web site : www.netafim.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 12:02:38 +0300
From: Gideon Oron (gidi@BGUMAIL.BGU.AC.IL)
Subject: Re: Fwd: you are now showing your !.Q.
Hello Dorota
wish you a good time
so long
Gideon
At 01:39 PM 8/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
)I am out all Tuesday 26 of August. I teach M,W,F, from 10:40 to 11:30 and
)I need the last hour before the class so I can meet only very early - let
)say 8:00 am or 8:30 on these days.I have a visitor from Chile on the 28 and
)29th and an exam on 28 all afternoon.
)
)Dorota.
)
)
)At 12:13 PM 8/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
))
))Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
))or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
))obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
))Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
))
))
))
)****************************************************************************
)Dorota Z. Haman
)Associate Professor tel:(352) 392-8432
)Department of Agricultural FAX:(352) 392-4092
)and Biological Engineering e-mail: dorota@agen.ufl.edu
)University of Florida
)Gainesville, FL 32611
)
)
)Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
)or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
)obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
)Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
)
)
Gideon Oron
Ben-Gurion University of the Negev
The Institute for Desert Research
Kiryat Sde-Boker 84990, ISRAEL
Tel:+972-7-653-2070; Fax: +972-7-655-7042
E-Mail: Gidi@BGUmail.bgu.ac.il
and
Department of Industrial Engineering and Management
Beer-Sheva 84105, ISRAEL
Tel:+972-7-647-2200; Fax: +972-7-647-2958
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 23 Aug 1997 to 24 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 00:02:45 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 24 Aug 1997 to 25 Aug 1997
There are 4 messages totalling 181 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Discussion on EU% and Pressure Variation
2. Drip tape design for DU (From Charles Burt)
3. Gypsum to increase avail. H2O
4. Gypsum to increase avail.H2O
Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:14:37 -0700
From: Graham Hutchinson (hutch@BMI.NET)
Subject: Re: Discussion on EU% and Pressure Variation
Thanks for your comments.
Mitch, your explanation of comparing point delivery drip with sprinkler was
very good. What are your thoughts when comparing drip tape with micro
sprinkler, jet, dripper systems that may also be considered point delivery
systems. In the case of micro sprinklers or jets, there may be one unit
per tree or one per two trees. In the case of drippers there is usually at
least one per tree. These systems are generally designed with
pressure/flow variations standards.
I guess the main reason for my questions is to see what people are using as
a design standard when they apply drip tape to trees and vines. If they
are using pressure/flow variation what are limits? If they are using EU%
what is the limit?
Yossi, thank you for your notes. What flow variation would you recommend
as a standard for drip tape on trees & vines?
Thanks
Graham Hutchinson
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:40:39 -0700
From: Richard Mead (rmead@AGRILINK-INT.COM)
Subject: Drip tape design for DU (From Charles Burt)
Dr. Charles Burt is having problems posting to Trickle-L. While I assist
him with the dilemma, here is his posting to expedite the information process.
RMM
---------------------
Drip tape design for DU is no different from other drip/micro systems. The
emitters and a single tape are only one part of the whole system. Notice
that I have used the term "DU" rather than "EU" because the term "EU" is
typically only used for a single tape. The concept of DU refers to the
uniformity of the whole field - the really important value.
In our book on Drip and Microirrigation Systems we go through drip tape
design in a fair amount of detail. In our short courses, we provide
participants with tables that they can combine with the results of drip
hose hydraulics programs, in order to determine the allowable pressure
difference between the heads of all the tapes. A drip hose hydraulics
program typically gives a "DU" or "EU" value, but you must combine that
value with the desired "DU" value for the whole field. That is, the DU for
the field is always lower than the DU for a single tape or hose.
There are a lot of drip hose hydraulics programs around. We have one for
educational purposes. Ours was the first (I believe) to also let you know
what the inlet P and Q requirements are during flushing - since if the
tapes have a flushing manifold, the flushing may dominate the hydraulic
computations.
--------------
Thanks.
Charles M. Burt, P.E., Ph.D.
Director, Irrigation Training and Research Center (ITRC)
and Professor, BioResource and Agricultural Engineering Department
California Polytechnic State University (Cal Poly)
San Luis Obispo, California 93407
direct phone: (805) 756-2379
sect. phone: (805) 756-2434
FAX: (805) 756-2433
e-mail: cburt@calpoly.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:33:26 +0000
From: Michelle Miller (94049860@BELGARIAN.RIV.CSU.EDU.AU)
Subject: Gypsum to increase avail. H2O
Mitch,
I was wondering if you had received any replies to your question
regarding the use of gypsum to increase the amount of available water
in a sandy soil? I asked a few people at the University here about
your problem. Their answers were along the lines of:
Gypsum improves the soil structure aned increases permeability by
floculating clay particles, thereby increasing the percentage of
mesopores and decreasing the percentage of micropores. In a sandy
soil with a significant clay content gypsum may increase the amount
of plant available water by only a few percent (5-10%) dependent upon
the amount of clay in the soil. However the effect of the gypsum may
be short lived (months) if the soil is well leached as the gypsum
will be washed down through the soil profile. An Emerson Test may
reveal how effective the gypsum will be (ie. place untreated
aggregate in water and observe slaking; place aggregate from treated
soil, which has been left a couple of weeks, in water and observe slaking)
if the results are the same then there will be little benefit from the gypsum.
The other alternative mentioned was to increase the organic matter
content in the soil.
Regards
Michelle
Michelle Miller
School of Agriculture
Charles Sturt University
PO Box 588
Wagga Wagga, NSW 2678,
Australia
Phone: +61 69 334031
Fax: +61 69 332812
Email: 94049860@belgarian.riv.csu.edu.au
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:46:34 +0000
From: Michelle Miller (94049860@BELGARIAN.RIV.CSU.EDU.AU)
Subject: Gypsum to increase avail.H2O
Mitch,
I was wondering if you had received any replies to your question
regarding the use of gypsum to increase the amount of available water
in a sandy soil? I asked a few people at the University here about
your problem. Their answers were along the lines of:
Gypsum improves the soil structure aned increases permeability by
floculating clay particles, thereby increasing the percentage of
mesopores and decreasing the percentage of micropores. In a sandy
soil with a significant clay content gypsum may increase the amount
of plant available water by only a few percent (5-10%) dependent upon
the amount of clay in the soil. However the effect of the gypsum may
be short lived (months) if the soil is well leached as the gypsum
will be washed down through the soil profile. An Emerson Test may
reveal how effective the gypsum will be (ie. place untreated
aggregate in water and observe slaking; place aggregate from treated
soil, which has been left a couple of weeks, in water and observe slaking)
if the results are the same then there will be little benefit from the gypsum.
The other alternative mentioned was to increase the organic matter
content in the soil.
Regards
Michelle
Michelle Miller
School of Agriculture
Charles Sturt University
PO Box 588
Wagga Wagga, NSW 2678,
Australia
Phone: +61 69 334031
Fax: +61 69 332812
Email: 94049860@belgarian.riv.csu.edu.au
Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 24 Aug 1997 to 25 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 00:06:22 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 25 Aug 1997 to 26 Aug 1997
There are 3 messages totalling 212 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Gypsum to increase avail.H2O
2. Drip tape design for DU (From Charles Burt)
3. Discussion on EU% and Pressure Variation
Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:59:06 -0700
From: "J.D. Oster" (oster@MAIL.UCR.EDU)
Subject: Re: Gypsum to increase avail.H2O
Michelle: I sent the following message in response to Mitch's question. Its
a bit different then yours. I would like to know of any published papers
which have data that show an increase in soil water holding capacity of a
sandy soil as a result of adding gypsum.
Gypsum as an amendment:
It can improve water infiltration into the soil, and water redistribution
within the soil. With improved infiltration, a given amount of water will
enter the soil in less time. With improved redistribution, downward
movement of water within the soil would be faster; this could result in a
more rapid decrease in soil water content of the surface 30 cm of soil. All
of these changes would depend on the salinity and sodicity level of both
the irrigation water and the water in the soil. I doubt that gypsum would
increase the water content of a sandy soil.
As for other amendments, organic compounds which can adsorb large amounts
of water in nonsaline soils, have been sold as amendments to increase the
water holding capacity of soil. Super Slurper is a highly polymerized
polysaccaride which adsorbs water readily. I have no information as to its
availability, or to the availability of similar compounds. Two research
papers that deal with Super Slurper are Hemyari and Nofziger, 1981, Soil
Sci. Soc. Am. J. 45:799, and Miller, 1979, Soil Sci. Soc. Am. J. 43:628.
Although a bit dated, these references should help you start a Lit. search.
At 12:46 PM 8/26/97 +0000, you wrote:
)Mitch,
)
)I was wondering if you had received any replies to your question
)regarding the use of gypsum to increase the amount of available water
)in a sandy soil? I asked a few people at the University here about
)your problem. Their answers were along the lines of:
)
)Gypsum improves the soil structure aned increases permeability by
)floculating clay particles, thereby increasing the percentage of
)mesopores and decreasing the percentage of micropores. In a sandy
)soil with a significant clay content gypsum may increase the amount
)of plant available water by only a few percent (5-10%) dependent upon
)the amount of clay in the soil. However the effect of the gypsum may
)be short lived (months) if the soil is well leached as the gypsum
)will be washed down through the soil profile. An Emerson Test may
)reveal how effective the gypsum will be (ie. place untreated
)aggregate in water and observe slaking; place aggregate from treated
)soil, which has been left a couple of weeks, in water and observe slaking)
) if the results are the same then there will be little benefit from the
gypsum.
)
)The other alternative mentioned was to increase the organic matter
)content in the soil.
)
)Regards
)Michelle
)
)
)Michelle Miller
)School of Agriculture
)Charles Sturt University
)PO Box 588
)Wagga Wagga, NSW 2678,
)Australia
)
)Phone: +61 69 334031
)Fax: +61 69 332812
)Email: 94049860@belgarian.riv.csu.edu.au
)
)Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
)or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
)obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
)Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
)
)Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
)or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
)obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
)Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
)
)
J.D.(Jim) Oster
Soil and Water Specialist and Adjunct Professor
Soil and Environmental Sciences
University of California
Riverside, CA.
FAX: 909 787-5522
P.O Box 1344
Graeagle CA 96103
Telehones
VOICE:
Riverside Office 909 787-5100 Nov 1997
Graeagle Office 916 8360938 May through October 1997
e-mail: Oster@mail.ucr.edu
http://esce.ucr.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:54:08 -0700
From: Graham Hutchinson (hutch@BMI.NET)
Subject: Re: Drip tape design for DU (From Charles Burt)
Thanks for your comments Charles. I read the relevant parts of your book
and it all sounded OK. The book describes the rational and how to use DU
but I could not find recommended DU design standards for new installations.
What are your thoughts on design DUs for intensive row crops and for
trees/vines irrigated with drip tape or drippers?
Graham Hutchinson
----------
) From: Richard Mead (rmead@AGRILINK-INT.COM)
) To: TRICKLE-L@crcvms.unl.edu
) Subject: Drip tape design for DU (From Charles Burt)
) Date: Monday, August 25, 1997 3:40 PM
)
) Dr. Charles Burt is having problems posting to Trickle-L. While I assist
) him with the dilemma, here is his posting to expedite the information
process.
)
) RMM
) ---------------------
) Drip tape design for DU is no different from other drip/micro systems.
The
) emitters and a single tape are only one part of the whole system. Notice
) that I have used the term "DU" rather than "EU" because the term "EU" is
) typically only used for a single tape. The concept of DU refers to the
) uniformity of the whole field - the really important value.
)
) In our book on Drip and Microirrigation Systems we go through drip tape
) design in a fair amount of detail. In our short courses, we provide
) participants with tables that they can combine with the results of drip
) hose hydraulics programs, in order to determine the allowable pressure
) difference between the heads of all the tapes. A drip hose hydraulics
) program typically gives a "DU" or "EU" value, but you must combine that
) value with the desired "DU" value for the whole field. That is, the DU
for
) the field is always lower than the DU for a single tape or hose.
)
) There are a lot of drip hose hydraulics programs around. We have one for
) educational purposes. Ours was the first (I believe) to also let you
know
) what the inlet P and Q requirements are during flushing - since if the
) tapes have a flushing manifold, the flushing may dominate the hydraulic
) computations.
)
)
) --------------
) Thanks.
)
)
)
)
) Charles M. Burt, P.E., Ph.D.
) Director, Irrigation Training and Research Center (ITRC)
) and Professor, BioResource and Agricultural Engineering Department
) California Polytechnic State University (Cal Poly)
) San Luis Obispo, California 93407
)
) direct phone: (805) 756-2379
) sect. phone: (805) 756-2434
) FAX: (805) 756-2433
) e-mail: cburt@calpoly.edu
)
) Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files
(graphics
) or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
) obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
) Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:07:02 +0200
From: Yossi Ingber (netafim@INTER.NET.IL)
Subject: Re: Discussion on EU% and Pressure Variation
Our design software works on a complete block design (i.e. : delivery
manifold+laterals), so Flow Variation should be applied on variations
between maximum emission rate to minimum emission rate within a specific
block.The design takes into consideration topography along the delivery
manifold and each lateral as well.The recommended F.V. percentage was
studied in the past , to find correlation between F.V. and water/yield
curves.The gap between optimal water application volume per season to
actual applied quantity on unit area in field--results in yield
variation.I'm sure you may find the scientific work in various
libreries.
Our general "Rule of Thumb" :
multi seasonal systems----(non self compensated drippers)----7.5% up to
15% F.V. within a block.
multi seasonal systems----(self compensated drippers)----a piece of cake
to design a system.
thin wall dripperlines --- 12.5% up 20% F.V. within a block.
A specific design may vary due to very local conditions (i.e.:length of
field and possible division into blocks, slope,.....etc.). Always we
consult with a local extension service/designer/dealer/customer to
finalize our design limits.
Yossi Ingber
Engineering and Technical Support
Netafim-Irrigation Equipment and Drip Systems/ Israel
visit our web site : WWW.NETAFIM.COM
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 25 Aug 1997 to 26 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 00:03:18 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 26 Aug 1997 to 27 Aug 1997
There are 11 messages totalling 520 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Oil clogging problems in buried drip (2)
2. Gypsum to increase avail. H2O (4)
3. Agressive Yellow Green Algae!?
4. Drip tape design for DU (From Charles Burt)
5. Thanks for EU, DU pressure/flow discussion
6. Aggressive Yellow Green Algae
7. Oil clogging problems in drip lines
Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 13:54:17 -0500
From: James Prochaska (jnmtexas@STARTEL.NET)
Subject: Re: Oil clogging problems in buried drip
Randall:
You may want to find out just where the oil is in well. Oil lubed
turbines continuously let oil out and from time to time, it is necessary
to pull the turbine and column piping and pump out the oil that is
floating in well casing. This is the best way to fix the problem or add
more column piping and delay removing the oil another year or two.
Normally, the oil can be recovered and be reused. I would not recommend
adding an emulsifier since you may have several hundreds of gallons of
oil floating in the well casing. The resulting mess could be harmful to
the crop as well as the drip tubing. Sand media filters will help, but
the sand will have to be changed more often.
Jim Prochaska
JNM Technologies, Inc.
Bryan, Texas
409-779-6068, ext 22
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 22:41:43 +1000
From: Wally Menke (wallym@OZEMAIL.COM.AU)
Subject: Re: Oil clogging problems in buried drip
At 10:03 AM 21/08/97 -0700, you wrote:
)Merriott@AOL.COM wrote:
)
)) Was talking to a gentleman today here in Texas. A lot of folks around
)) here
)) have oil lubricated turbine pumps in their wells...
)
)[stuff deleted]
)
)I believe that the chlorine works as an oxidizing agent to break down
)the organic moleules of oil. This sounds like th best solution (so to
)speak). Jerry Funck, Netafim Sales Rep. in Lubbbock, mentioned to me a
)similar problem another grower in the area was having with oil. Treating
)both the well and the drip system with shock doses of chlorine (100 -
)500 ppm free chlorine) should help. He also might consider a more
)agressive form of filtration, such as sand media tanks, which would
)provide more filtration to catch the oil before it enters the drip
)system.
)Jerome Pier
)Agronomist
)Netafim USA
)jpier@mindspring.com
I would have thought that having oil anywhere near a media filter would be a
receipe for disaster and lots of digging. The oil would stick and bind the
media together very nicely! making it set in the tanks. Has anyone further
comments?
Wally Menke
Triangle Filtration
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:33:19 -0500
From: David Venhuizen (waterguy@IX.NETCOM.COM)
Subject: Re: Gypsum to increase avail. H2O
Michelle Miller wrote:
)
) Mitch,
)
) I was wondering if you had received any replies to your question
) regarding the use of gypsum to increase the amount of available water
) in a sandy soil?
[snipped]
) The other alternative mentioned was to increase the organic matter
) content in the soil.
)
) Regards
) Michelle
)
) Michelle Miller
) School of Agriculture
) Charles Sturt University
) PO Box 588
) Wagga Wagga, NSW 2678,
) Australia
)
) Phone: +61 69 334031
) Fax: +61 69 332812
) Email: 94049860@belgarian.riv.csu.edu.au
)
Interesting. My first thought upon reading the original question was,
why not organic matter instead of gypsum. It seems intuitively obvious
that this would improve water holding capacity while also enhancing
fertility. Is there some reason for considering a strictly "chemical"
additive? Cost? Availability?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:24:04 -0500
From: "W. Bryan Smith" (wsmth@CLEMSON.EDU)
Subject: Re: Gypsum to increase avail. H2O
) Interesting. My first thought upon reading the original question was,
) why not organic matter instead of gypsum. It seems intuitively obvious
) that this would improve water holding capacity while also enhancing
) fertility. Is there some reason for considering a strictly "chemical"
) additive? Cost? Availability?
David,
One reason in our area is climate. We have organic decomposition
almost year-round here in South Carolina - consequently it's very
hard to get organic matter levels up in our soils, and a good deal of
work is required to maintain them. 0.5% to 1% are good O.M. soil
contents for us in cropping systems if we're lucky. Rotating the fields
10 years in pasture/hay and 4 to 5 years in crops helps and can get the
O.M. content up to 2% for a short while, but is not a realizable goal
for many (no hay market, no cattle, or not enough land owned, etc.).
Of course, from the discussion so far it seems that gypsum may not
help us for any longer period of time than the O.M.
Maybe Michelle has similar problems ......
Bryan
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
W. Bryan Smith
Area Extension Agent - Irrigation / Water Quality
Clemson Extension Service
P.O. Box 160, Newberry, South Carolina 29108 USA
Office: 803 276-1091 FAX: 803 276-1095
Internet: wsmth@clemson.edu
=|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|===|=
All opinions are my own and not reflective of the
policies of Clemson University or the Cooperative
Extension Service.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 08:49:00 -0700
From: "Thurston, Anna (MSMail)" (athursto@CI.TACOMA.WA.US)
Subject: Re: Gypsum to increase avail. H2O
I couldn't help but agree with the comments regarding the use of Organic
Matter (OM). In urban areas of the Pacific NW we have had access to OM
via the local sewer utility. The product is a mixture of sewer biosolids
mixed and/or composted with either soil and sawdust, or other
organic/landscape by-products.
The finer grades (soil, sawdust and dried biosolid) is great for a high
fertility soil improvement or for shallow topdressings, but lasts only a
year or so after our winter rains wash out our soils. Because it is not
composted, it comes with an inherent odor problem that seems to be
resolved as soon as it is spread and watered or tilled in. I have used
this kind of product as a top dressing on lawns and seen dramatic
improvement in water holding capacity and overall plant health that adds
to a lawn's ability to withstand extended dry periods and other pest
problems.
The coarser grades (tree grindings or wood chips, composted with sewer
biosolids and other organic matter from the landfill) can be used either
as a surface mulch application or as a soil amendment. This non-odorous
product (when "finished") will last up to two years in or on the soil,
and even looks as good or better than bark chips as a form of mulch.
Being as fertile as its finer grade cousin, I have been able to
substitute the use of other fertilizers with 2"-4" mulch applications
that act like slow release fertilizers at the same time that I have
effectively reduced weed seed germination, distracted the thousands of
slugs and other bugs that would otherwise eat my plantings, and in an
esthetic way have also reduced soil erosion. The manufacturer of the
composted product must be prepared to deal with potential odor problems,
but this can be managed with effective mixing - even on a large scale.
Any organic matter by-product could be utilized in the making of such an
OM. As a landscaper and water conservationist, I am impressed with these
products for other reasons including the fact that they re-use several
by-products that would otherwise fill up our landfills or go to waste in
some other way. They also reduce our dependence upon petroleum based
fertilizers and chemicals that have the potential for mis-use, and even
when used according to manufacturer's recommendations can still be found
in all of our shrinking drinking water supplies.
Anna Thurston, Water Conservation Specialist
Tacoma Public Utilities, Water Resource Planning
PO Box 11007 Tacoma, Washington 98411
(206)502-8723 // FAX:(206)502-8694
(athursto@ci.tacoma.wa.us)
----------
Response From: W. Bryan Smith
To: TRICKLE-L@crcvms.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Gypsum to increase avail. H2O
Date: Wednesday, August 27, 1997 8:24AM
) Interesting. My first thought upon reading the original question was,
) why not organic matter instead of gypsum. It seems intuitively
obvious
) that this would improve water holding capacity while also enhancing
) fertility. Is there some reason for considering a strictly "chemical"
) additive? Cost? Availability?
David,
One reason in our area is climate. We have organic decomposition
almost year-round here in South Carolina - consequently it's very
hard to get organic matter levels up in our soils, and a good deal of
work is required to maintain them. 0.5% to 1% are good O.M. soil
contents for us in cropping systems if we're lucky. Rotating the fields
10 years in pasture/hay and 4 to 5 years in crops helps and can get the
O.M. content up to 2% for a short while, but is not a realizable goal
for many (no hay market, no cattle, or not enough land owned, etc.).
Of course, from the discussion so far it seems that gypsum may not
help us for any longer period of time than the O.M.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:13:11 -0700
From: "Alan S. Wicks" (awicks@TELEVAR.COM)
Subject: Agressive Yellow Green Algae!?
Greetings,
A client of mine recently brought in a sample of some yellow green
material from an inline filter in his drip system. He said the lab
identified it as Agressive Yellow-Green Algae. Has anyone heard of this
stuff and does anyone have any idea how to get rid of it? Apparently it
is coming in from the well. Putting shots of chlorine into the well
only helps for a few days.
He has tried the usual line cleaners which help but don't completely
take care of it. He would like something that he could inject
continuously (and economically) that would knock the stuff down.
Thanks,
Alan S. Wick
Kennewick, WA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:16:49 -0700
From: "Charles M. Burt" (cburt@CALPOLY.EDU)
Subject: Re: Drip tape design for DU (From Charles Burt)
It's impossible to give a precise desired value for a brand new system DU.
For example, if the same criteria was applied to automobiles, how could you
compare a base Nissan Sentra against a top of the tile Mercedes?
Also, the desired new DU depends upon factors such as whether or not the
zone is arid or humid. An arid area will totally depend upon the
irrigation system, so DU becomes quite important. A humid zone isn't as
sensitive.
Finally, I think that the eventual DU(in 2-3 years, for example) is just as
important, or maybe more important, than the initial, NEW DU. We certainly
see in our field evaluations that the DU in the field, after a few years,
is dramatically different than the initial DU. This means that a designer
might sacrifice a few percentage points of brand new DU in order to sell a
system which can be more easily maintained (less clogging potential, better
filtration, better chemical injection).
That said, it turns out that for almost anything but a very extreme
topographic condition, a brand new field DU of 85% is relatively easy to
obtain for a permanent drip or microsprayer system. One must account for
all of the factors, including elevation changes, friction, pressure
regulator variations (manufacturing or settings), emitter c.v., unequal
drainage during startup/shutdown, etc. when computing a FIELD DU.
For simple micro-sprayer systems on relatively flat ground, a brand new
field DU of 90-92% or even better is quite reasonable, while accounting for
all of the factors above. This is very attainable if you use good block
pressure regulators, sprayers with a low c.v., and keep the pressures high
enough.
For drip tape systems, I have in mind a target of about 86-88% for a brand
new BLOCK DU. Some of the tapes don't have extremely low c.v.'s, which
immediately reduces the brand new DU. Perhaps more importantly, though, is
the fact that most tapes are operated with inlet pressures of 8 psi or so,
and it is difficult to maintain a real high DU with such low pressures (I'm
not saying it's impossible - I certainly understand the hydraulics).
However, on heavy soils, I would shoot for a few points higher because of
the problems with aeration at the heads of the tapes (some crops like
peppers and tomatoes are very sensitive to excess irrigation on heavy
ground). The DU computation examines the tail ends of the problem and
under-emphasizes the top (high flow rate) end. I like to use a drip hose
hydraulics program to examine the (Max/Min) ratio on the tape, and then
superimpose that on the manifold hydraulics.
How's that for throwing the hat into the ring of fire?
)Thanks for your comments Charles. I read the relevant parts of your book
)and it all sounded OK. The book describes the rational and how to use DU
)but I could not find recommended DU design standards for new installations.
) What are your thoughts on design DUs for intensive row crops and for
)trees/vines irrigated with drip tape or drippers?
)
)Graham Hutchinson
)
)----------
)) From: Richard Mead (rmead@AGRILINK-INT.COM)
)) To: TRICKLE-L@crcvms.unl.edu
)) Subject: Drip tape design for DU (From Charles Burt)
)) Date: Monday, August 25, 1997 3:40 PM
))
)) Dr. Charles Burt is having problems posting to Trickle-L. While I assist
)) him with the dilemma, here is his posting to expedite the information
)process.
))
)) RMM
)) ---------------------
)) Drip tape design for DU is no different from other drip/micro systems.
)The
)) emitters and a single tape are only one part of the whole system. Notice
)) that I have used the term "DU" rather than "EU" because the term "EU" is
)) typically only used for a single tape. The concept of DU refers to the
)) uniformity of the whole field - the really important value.
))
)) In our book on Drip and Microirrigation Systems we go through drip tape
)) design in a fair amount of detail. In our short courses, we provide
)) participants with tables that they can combine with the results of drip
)) hose hydraulics programs, in order to determine the allowable pressure
)) difference between the heads of all the tapes. A drip hose hydraulics
)) program typically gives a "DU" or "EU" value, but you must combine that
)) value with the desired "DU" value for the whole field. That is, the DU
)for
)) the field is always lower than the DU for a single tape or hose.
))
)) There are a lot of drip hose hydraulics programs around. We have one for
)) educational purposes. Ours was the first (I believe) to also let you
)know
)) what the inlet P and Q requirements are during flushing - since if the
)) tapes have a flushing manifold, the flushing may dominate the hydraulic
)) computations.
))
))
)) --------------
)) Thanks.
))
))
))
))
)) Charles M. Burt, P.E., Ph.D.
)) Director, Irrigation Training and Research Center (ITRC)
)) and Professor, BioResource and Agricultural Engineering Department
)) California Polytechnic State University (Cal Poly)
)) San Luis Obispo, California 93407
))
)) direct phone: (805) 756-2379
)) sect. phone: (805) 756-2434
)) FAX: (805) 756-2433
)) e-mail: cburt@calpoly.edu
))
)) Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files
)(graphics
)) or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
)) obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
)) Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
))
)
)Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
)or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
)obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
)Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
Charles M. Burt, P.E., Ph.D.
Director, Irrigation Training and Research Center (ITRC)
and Professor, BioResource and Agricultural Engineering Department
California Polytechnic State University (Cal Poly)
San Luis Obispo, California 93407
direct phone: (805) 756-2379
sect. phone: (805) 756-2434
FAX: (805) 756-2433
e-mail: cburt@calpoly.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 16:47:58 -0700
From: Graham Hutchinson (hutch@BMI.NET)
Subject: Thanks for EU, DU pressure/flow discussion
Hi Charles, Mitch and Yossi.
Thank you for helping me sort my ideas out on the EU, DU and pressure/flow
variation discussion. All your comments helped. I also found the ASAE
Standard EP405.1 useful.
Graham Hutchinson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 08:11:02 +0800
From: Mitch Sala-Tenna (mitch@SALA-TENNA.COM.AU)
Subject: Re: Gypsum to increase avail. H2O
David Venhuizen wrote:
)
) Interesting. My first thought upon reading the original question was,
) why not organic matter instead of gypsum. It seems intuitively obvious
) that this would improve water holding capacity while also enhancing
) fertility. Is there some reason for considering a strictly "chemical"
) additive? Cost? Availability?
David,
The situation I have at present (and hence the question about gypsum) is
a strawberry crop irrigated with subterranean drip under plastic mulch.
Any soil improver must be applied through the drip system and soluble
gypsum has a reputation for improving soil moisture holding ability
(although it seems through increased permeability).
The problem is that the soil is very sandy (maybe 5% clay content) with
a naturally high amount of organic matter (old swampy ground). Past
irrigation management has resulted in a lot of leaching and I feel we
have stripped the soil of most of it's organic content.
Maybe there is something else we can do short of removing the crop,
mulch and drip tape and physically improving the soil.
Does anyone have experience with humic acid to improve sandy soils?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:53:17 -0500
From: James Prochaska (jnmtexas@STARTEL.NET)
Subject: Re: Aggressive Yellow Green Algae
Alan:
I've experienced similar critters in wells in Florida, some iron and
sulphur related, others are colonies of different bacteria now living in
the aquifers. Some were the result of oil exploration and poor drilling
hygiene. It is hard to stop them as you have seen. Chlorinating the
well is a much more involved task than just adding chlorine to the
well. Procedures for super chlorinating wells are contained in
reference books such as Johnson's Well book. It normally requires that
the pump be pulled and a trimming pipe be added to the bottom of the
well in order to insure that the chlorine gets into all the open spaces
in the well. Another way is to displace several pore volumes, in this
case, bore hole volumes with the super chlorine mix. You then have to
give it a little time to work and then pump it out. You can sometimes
do this and leave the pump in the well; however, chlorine can damage
synthetic pump seals and water bearings, so it's best to add the mixture
directly into the well and not through the pump. There are other
commercial products on the market and I can get some of the names if you
would like to try them.
Better filtration would certainly help. Deep sand beds will normally
stop this type of problem. You can then add chlorine to the irrigation
system including the filters to kill the resident bacteria and fungus.
Unfortunately, none of this is permanent, so it will have to be repeated
or continuously done.
Good luck.
Jim Prochaska, PE
JNM Technologies, Inc.
409-779-6068, ext. 22
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 11:00:40 -0500
From: James Prochaska (jnmtexas@STARTEL.NET)
Subject: Re: Oil clogging problems in drip lines
This is my third attempt to send this message. If you received it
earlier, please disregard this one.
Randall:
You may want to find out just where the oil is in well. Oil lubed
turbines continuously let oil out and from time to time, it is necessary
to pull the turbine and column piping and pump out the oil that is
floating in well casing. This is the best way to fix the problem or add
more column piping and delay removing the oil another year or two.
Normally, the oil can be recovered and be reused. I would not recommend
adding an emulsifier since you may have several hundreds of gallons of
oil floating in the well casing. The resulting mess could be harmful to
the crop as well as the drip tubing. Sand media filters will help, but
the sand will have to be changed more often.
By the way, do you miss Florida?
Jim Prochaska, PE
JNM Technologies, Inc.
Bryan, Texas
409-779-6068, ext 22
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 26 Aug 1997 to 27 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 00:01:35 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 27 Aug 1997 to 28 Aug 1997
There are 2 messages totalling 53 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Agressive Yellow Green Algae!?
2. message problems
Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 03:21:17 -0400
From: Farouk Hassan (FAHassan@AOL.COM)
Subject: Re: Agressive Yellow Green Algae!?
Hi Alan
Try chlorination on continuous basis at a rate that maintains 2-3 ppm free
chlorine at the end of the laterals. If possible use chlorine gas, and a
chlorinator on the gas tank. If this treatment controls the algae you may
inject chlorine less frequent. Please let me know of the outcome, I would be
interested.
Regards
Farouk A. Hassan
Irrigation & Soils Consultant
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:35:41 -0700
From: Graham Hutchinson (hutch@BMI.NET)
Subject: message problems
Hi Richard
In answer to your question, yes I have sent identical messages after I have
received the "mailbox full" message. The response to the identical message
is as follows:
Your message is being returned to you unprocessed because it appears to
have
already been distributed to the TRICKLE-L list. That is, a message
with
identical text (but possibly with different mail headers) has been
posted to
the list recently, either by you or by someone else. If you have a good
reason
to resend this message to the list (for instance because you have been
notified
of a hardware failure with loss of data), please alter the text of the
message
in some way and resend it to the list. Note that altering the "Subject:"
line
or adding blank lines at the top or bottom of the message is not
sufficient;
you should instead add a sentence or two at the top explaining why you
are
resending the message, so that the other subscribers understand why they
are
getting two copies of the same message.
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 27 Aug 1997 to 28 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 00:02:54 -0600
From: Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@crcvms.unl.edu)
Subject: TRICKLE-L Digest - 28 Aug 1997 to 29 Aug 1997
There are 4 messages totalling 265 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Tensiometers (3)
2. FW: Gypsum vs. Organic Matter
Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files (graphics
or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner, Richard
Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:13:36 -0700
From: Michael Lydon (ride0126@RIDE.RI.NET)
Subject: Tensiometers
Hi,
I would like to purchase a tensiometer that has the capability of
retaining a low and high reading when placed in my growing media.
It must be portable and battery operated.
I would appreciate any help.
Mike Lydon
Lydon Family Tomatoes
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:34:00 -0700
From: "Thurston, Anna (MSMail)" (athursto@CI.TACOMA.WA.US)
Subject: FW: Gypsum vs. Organic Matter
This response is being re-sent for the same reason that Graham made note
of. I can also better understand why OM won't work for the original
request (strawberries under plastic mulch). I feel that the information
is useful enough to send, but would appreciate more detail in the
questions of origin upon which we could more effectively (both in terms
of information and our precious time) build our responses.
----------
From: Thurston, Anna
To: 'TRICKLE-L'
Cc: 'W. Bryan Smith'
Subject: Re: Gypsum to increase avail. H2O
Date: Wednesday, August 27, 1997 8:49AM
I couldn't help but agree with the comments regarding the use of Organic
Matter (OM). In urban areas of the Pacific NW we have had access to OM
via the local sewer utility. The product is a mixture of sewer biosolids
mixed and/or composted with either soil and sawdust, or other
organic/landscape by-products.
The finer grades (soil, sawdust and dried biosolid) is great for a high
fertility soil improvement or for shallow topdressings, but lasts only a
year or so after our winter rains wash out our soils. Because it is not
composted, it comes with an inherent odor problem that seems to be
resolved as soon as it is spread and watered or tilled in. I have used
this kind of product as a top dressing on lawns and seen dramatic
improvement in water holding capacity and overall plant health that adds
to a lawn's ability to withstand extended dry periods and other pest
problems.
The coarser grades (tree grindings or wood chips, composted with sewer
biosolids and other organic matter from the landfill) can be used either
as a surface mulch application or as a soil amendment. This non-odorous
product (when "finished") will last up to two years in or on the soil,
and even looks as good or better than bark chips as a form of mulch.
Being as fertile as its finer grade cousin, I have been able to
substitute the use of other fertilizers with 2"-4" mulch applications
that act like slow release fertilizers at the same time that I have
effectively reduced weed seed germination, distracted the thousands of
slugs and other bugs that would otherwise eat my plantings, and in an
esthetic way have also reduced soil erosion. The manufacturer of the
composted product must be prepared to deal with potential odor problems,
but this can be managed with effective mixing - even on a large scale.
Any organic matter by-product could be utilized in the making of such an
OM. As a landscaper and water conservationist, I am impressed with these
products for other reasons including the fact that they re-use several
by-products that would otherwise fill up our landfills or go to waste in
some other way. They also reduce our dependence upon petroleum based
fertilizers and chemicals that have the potential for mis-use, and even
when used according to manufacturer's recommendations can still be found
in all of our shrinking drinking water supplies.
Anna Thurston, Water Conservation Specialist
Tacoma Public Utilities, Water Resource Planning
PO Box 11007 Tacoma, Washington 98411
(206)502-8723 // FAX:(206)502-8694
(athursto@ci.tacoma.wa.us)
----------
Response From: W. Bryan Smith
To: TRICKLE-L@crcvms.unl.edu
Subject: Re: Gypsum to increase avail. H2O
Date: Wednesday, August 27, 1997 8:24AM
) Interesting. My first thought upon reading the original question was,
) why not organic matter instead of gypsum. It seems intuitively
obvious
) that this would improve water holding capacity while also enhancing
) fertility. Is there some reason for considering a strictly "chemical"
) additive? Cost? Availability?
David,
One reason in our area is climate. We have organic decomposition
almost year-round here in South Carolina - consequently it's very
hard to get organic matter levels up in our soils, and a good deal of
work is required to maintain them. 0.5% to 1% are good O.M. soil
contents for us in cropping systems if we're lucky. Rotating the fields
10 years in pasture/hay and 4 to 5 years in crops helps and can get the
O.M. content up to 2% for a short while, but is not a realizable goal
for many (no hay market, no cattle, or not enough land owned, etc.).
Of course, from the discussion so far it seems that gypsum may not
help us for any longer period of time than the O.M.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:14:35 -0700
From: Marty Grogan (ges@OWT.COM)
Subject: Tensiometers
)Return-Path: owner-trickle-l@crcvms.unl.edu
)Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:13:36 -0700
)From: Michael Lydon (ride0126@RIDE.RI.NET)
)Subject: Tensiometers
)Sender: Trickle-L Discussion List (TRICKLE-L@crcvms.unl.edu)
)To: TRICKLE-L@crcvms.unl.edu
)Reply-to: ride0126@ride.ri.net
)X-UIDL: c0202f4294dd2b966faf6551acde19c3
)
)Hi,
)I would like to purchase a tensiometer that has the capability of
)retaining a low and high reading when placed in my growing media.
)
)It must be portable and battery operated.
)
)I would appreciate any help.
)
)Mike Lydon
)Lydon Family Tomatoes
Mike:
I do not believe that such a device can be purchased directly. I am
enclosing a posting made to SOWACS recently regarding soil moisture
measurement devices and technologies. I hope that you find it helpful.
A custom system could be built to accomplish your measurement, but probably
not without some datalogging and programming for analysis.
Marty Grogan
)I'll give you my US$0.02 worth. In my marketing studies for HydroTek, I
discovered several basic physical physical principles being used: Hydraulic
pressure (tensiometers), variable resistors (gypsum blocks), composite
dielectric correlation (capacitive, TDR and Wave Velocity Technology),
composite specific thermal properties (heat pulses) and atomic hydrogen
content (neutron probes).
)
)The only other techniques under development that I have any hint of use
variability in the translucence of a ceramic matrix--a "wet tissue"
approach, acoustics and infrared adsorption. There may be others.
)
)Expense, accuracies and interfaces vary widely--at least by 100:1. Most of
the devices commercially available are designed with voltage outputs to work
with battery powered data loggers or as portable units. Some offer a
current loop output. Except for the HydroTek Wave-1, which is not yet in
distribution, I do not know of any sensor specifically designed to work with
PLC's and long wire lengths.
)
)The value of information obtained from soil moisture sensors depends
greatly on many additional factors, i.e., calibration, installation, soil
type, crop requirements, stratification and application equipment.
Sometimes irrigation scheduling even depends on local water rights restrictions.
)
)Eventually, the use of soil moisture sensors will probably be motivated by
economics, in the broad sense. Environmental considerations, i.e., runoff
and ground water contamination may become the driving factors rather than
crop yields.
)
)With regard to your original question, Washington State University in
Prosser, WA produced a report several years ago which compared a number of
sensors. I also know of some research being conduced at the local lab in
Richland, WA.
)
)For specific pricing of equipment, I recommend that you contact the vendors
listed on sowacs www page:
http://www.icfrnet.unp.ac.za/sowacs/sensorlinks.html. You can find much
other information there as well.
)
)Beyond the basic sensing technology, moving the data either by wire or
radio can be accomplished quite directly with off-the-shelf equipment.
Controllers are also readily available for automated scheduling. Deciding
when to flip a switch is not quite so easy.
)
)I do not believe that the widespread use of soil moisture sensors has
progressed beyond a practioner's art. Systems cannot be purchased from
catelogs, but must still be individually hand crafted. I believe that
substantial value can be realized from this technology, but it requires an
adventerous individual and considerable risk, to do so.
)
)
Marty Grogan, BSAE, MSEE
Owner, Grogan Engineering Services
1320 Adair Drive
Richland, WA 99352
(509)627-3083 (voice and FAX)
ges@oneworld.owt.com
Specializing in Electronics Based Products and Services for Precision
Agriculture: Research, Instrumentation, Data Systems, Telemetry and Remote
Sensing.
GES--The technology buckstopper.
(Detailed Resume Available: http://www.owt.com/users/ges/resume.html)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:29:20 -0700
From: Dean Reynolds (dreynold@CD-ESO.WATER.CA.GOV)
Subject: Re: Tensiometers
Michael Lydon wrote:
) I would like to purchase a tensiometer that has the capability of
) retaining a low and high reading when placed in my growing media.
What is considered "low and high"?.... dean
)
)
) It must be portable and battery operated.
)
) I would appreciate any help.
)
) Mike Lydon
) Lydon Family Tomatoes
)
) Attention list subscribers! Please DO NOT send any attached files
) (graphics
) or text documents) to the Trickle-L list. If experiencing any problems
)
) obtaining Trickle-L information, please contact the list owner,
) Richard
) Mead (rmead@agrilink-int.com) and not the Trickle-L group.
--
**************************************************
Dean Reynolds
Associate Land and Water Use Analyst
California Department of Water Resources
3251 S Street
Sacramento, CA 95816 USA
Phone: 916-227-7638
Fax: 916-227-7600
email: dreynold@water.ca.gov
**************************************************
------------------------------
End of TRICKLE-L Digest - 28 Aug 1997 to 29 Aug 1997
****************************************************
Prepared by Steve Modena, AB4EL
Suggestions and comments to: modena@SunSITE.unc.edu