Article: 219278 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: inagaddadavida@webtv.net (Jim) Subject: Re: coax for 900mhz? Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 13:51:06 -0500 Message-ID: <18798-43778B1A-54@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net> References: thanks guys for your input! ok, forget about thin and supple. i need 50 ohm impedance coax at 900mhz into a uniden scanner(bnc connector) with a 15 foot run. what coax of any size is commonly available that would be suitable? Article: 219279 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jerry Martes" References: <18798-43778B1A-54@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net> Subject: Re: coax for 900mhz? Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:51:21 GMT "Jim" wrote in message news:18798-43778B1A-54@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net... > thanks guys for your input! ok, forget about thin and supple. i need 50 > ohm impedance coax at 900mhz into a uniden scanner(bnc connector) with a > 15 foot run. what coax of any size is commonly available that would be > suitable? Hi Jim I wonder why you would not use the RG-6 as suggested by Dave Oldridge. Even Home Depot has the cable and the BNCs for it. RG-6 is good transmission line at 900 MHz. I submit that nothing in the system from the antenna all the way to the receiver will be 50 ohms, no matter what transmission line you choose. Jerry Article: 219280 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: coax for 900mhz? References: <18798-43778B1A-54@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:56:55 GMT Jim wrote: > thanks guys for your input! ok, forget about thin and supple. i need 50 > ohm impedance coax at 900mhz into a uniden scanner(bnc connector) with a > 15 foot run. what coax of any size is commonly available that would be > suitable? LMR-1700 looks pretty good on the loss charts. It's about $10 per foot, 1.67 inch diameter - not sure about the BNC connector :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219281 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: W9INN antenna help References: <78ydnb1E5L2fxOveRVn-gg@comcast.com> <5YOdnQWbaPMnoOreRVn-iQ@comcast.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:51:33 GMT Steve wrote: > Still no input on my question. The feed point at the balun. should it be > off the tower on a stand off or is it ok to just hang it off a leg of the tower. Is the balun mounted in an aluminum enclosure? If so, it's probably OK to fasten it to the tower assuming the tower is not RF 'hot'. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219282 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Murray Pasternack" References: <18798-43778B1A-54@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net> Subject: Re: coax for 900mhz? Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 14:06:34 -0800 I suggest you look at a BNC cable assembly available From AAA RF Products of San Clemente, CA The AAA1003-180 Cable Assembly uses RG213/U cable with BNC male connectors, lenght is 15 feet and loss at 900 MHz would be about 1.6 dB. Cost about $30. See www.aaarfproducts.com for email & phone # Murray, W6KRC "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:bUMdf.11126$BZ5.1787@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com... > Jim wrote: > > thanks guys for your input! ok, forget about thin and supple. i need 50 > > ohm impedance coax at 900mhz into a uniden scanner(bnc connector) with a > > 15 foot run. what coax of any size is commonly available that would be > > suitable? > > LMR-1700 looks pretty good on the loss charts. It's about > $10 per foot, 1.67 inch diameter - not sure about the BNC > connector :-) > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219283 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Re: coax for 900mhz? Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 23:15:11 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <18798-43778B1A-54@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net> If you need a nice low-loss coax for 900 MHz, there's not much better than a 1" outside diameter cable with a 0.3" diameter inner conductor. Or something like that. If you cannot find such a line then the best thing to do is re-design the whole system such that you don't need it. ========================================= Article: 219284 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Isotron antennas From: Dave Oldridge References: <1131896022.061849.35660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 23:57:39 GMT "Kip W6KIP" wrote in news:1131896022.061849.35660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: > > Dave Oldridge wrote: >> If someone has a computer model for it for MMHAMSOFT's modeller, that >> would be GREAT! > > I've been looking for an EZNEC model of the Isotron for the past 6 > months, Dave. I haven't found anybody who has modeled one. I > understand the Isotron is "lossy" and "nothing but radiating feedline" > but it would still be interesting to see it on a grid or check the > numbers in NEC. And - just like every antenna, you'll find people who > use these things and love them, proving that "the best antenna is one > that works for you". I've got to agree with what others are telling > you. A small loop is the best performing antenna I've been able to > find for my very challenging antenna environment. Other than the small > bandwidth, I know it's working better than any inverted-vee or > shortened dipole I've ever been able to get up amid the power lines > and CATV cables here. I actually have a fairly good ground--a balcony rail that forms an aluminum grid about 40 feet in length and 3 feet in height. That's bound to have a decent capacative coupling to real ground inside the building, even if the rails are bolted into wood. -- Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 Article: 219285 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jerry" References: <11mhvb13vr19o31@news.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Asking for owner comments - LDG AT-1000 Auto Tuner Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:52:06 -0500 "Charlie" wrote in message news:11mhvb13vr19o31@news.supernews.com... >I would like to hear from owners of this auto tuner about any operating >quirks / hints / tips. Mine arrives tomorrow and while I have already >downloaded and devoured the manual there is nothing quite like hearing >straight from other hams. I have read the eHam reviews but still would like >to hear more remarks.. > > TY > > -- > > Charlie-AD5TH > www.ad5th.com I can't speak to the AT-1000, but I have an AT-100 and I LOVE it! It simply remembers any frequency I "visit" and when I return to that band/frequency, it is there, and I mean right NOW! I am not a fan of "tuners", however due to the civilian and military frequencies I am authorized, I simply couldn't put up enough antennas to cover it all. So, using my inverted Vee and and Antron 99 (to take advantage of polarization of others on the higher frequencies), I can do all I need to do. I *may* not be the loudest fella on, but I DO get good reports, AND good reviews from other LDG owners. Hope this helps. 73 Jerry > > > > > > Article: 219286 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dave Pitzer" Subject: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 23:33:37 -0500 Message-ID: <437813a2$0$75798$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> I'm considering buying the "CCRadio Plus" from the C Crane Co. for use as a "good" general purpose table radio with an above average AM section. Any comments? Dave Pitzer Article: 219287 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Susan York Subject: Re: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus Message-ID: <89ggn116bpm18d7jtjsqde4kn5tobj1si6@4ax.com> References: <437813a2$0$75798$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 07:57:58 GMT Dave, I bought one a few months ago, and am very pleased. It is solidly built, hears very well indeed, and has very clear sound. Sort of the old "Super Radio" made digital, and built like a tank. I find the WX alert very handy, though if you are going to use that, it definitely wants to be run off 110V rather than batteries, since the receiver is on continuously even with the radio switched off. You can turn that feature off, if you wish. As with any specialty product, it probably is a bit pricey, but I find it well worth the cost. -- Susan Article: 219288 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Asimov" Subject: Re: coax for 900mhz? Message-ID: References: <18798-43778B1A-54@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:11:02 GMT "Jim" bravely wrote to "All" (13 Nov 05 13:51:06) --- on the heady topic of "Re: coax for 900mhz?" Ji> From: inagaddadavida@webtv.net (Jim) Ji> Xref: core-easynews rec.radio.amateur.antenna:220026 Ji> thanks guys for your input! ok, forget about thin and supple. i need Ji> 50 ohm impedance coax at 900mhz into a uniden scanner(bnc connector) Ji> with a 15 foot run. what coax of any size is commonly available that Ji> would be suitable? Listen, these nice guys are all BS'ing you. Remember that cable is rated in dB/1,000ft, so that with only 15 of cable -- ANY -- will be about the same. You will probably have more loss in the connectors! A*s*i*m*o*v ... Everyone hates me because I'm paranoid. Article: 219289 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Miller Subject: Re: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus Message-ID: <3b7hn1lpts4594nviahcv9rp2062sbh2ou@4ax.com> References: <437813a2$0$75798$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:38:47 GMT On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 23:33:37 -0500, "Dave Pitzer" wrote: >I'm considering buying the "CCRadio Plus" from the C Crane Co. for use as a >"good" general purpose table radio with an above average AM section. Any >comments? > >Dave Pitzer > You might call and ask if they've improved the digital display. I have a plain CCRadio, and the display only lasted about two years before it quit showing numbers and letters. Fortunately, I put all of my favorite stations in memory before the radio went blind. I asked about their repairing the display, and they want a minimum of $49.95 plus shipping both ways. Otherwise it is a good radio, altho' I'm not sure it's really much better a DX-type radio than others. Still, it does have the 8-inch ferrite antenna, plus screws where you can attach an external AM antenna. My much cheaper GE SuperRadio has about the same receiving capabilities, but with analog tuning, and a better audio setup; it's like a little mono boombox. bob k5qwg Article: 219290 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John - kd5yi" Subject: Re: Coax Connector, Adapter, & Bulk Cable Catalog Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 08:24:13 -0600 Message-ID: References: "AAA RF Products" wrote in message news:EmLcf.72$7B.52@fed1read02... > For your free copy of our new catalog, please email > sales@AAARFProducts.com > or see www.aaarfproducts.com > > No minimum order. > > No handling charges. > > High quality and low cost. Your Web site requires some kind of plug-ins for my browser. No thanks. Article: 219291 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Loop Antennas References: <11mvjfic11rdq9f@corp.supernews.com> <1131958614.763293.134450@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:45:12 GMT nm5k@wt.net wrote: > They (loops) may be slightly quieter as far as ... > charge on the antenna itself, ... When I lived in AZ, where the wind blew almost all the time and the humidity was very low, particles in the wind would deposit their charges on my dipole causing an extreme amount of noise and sometimes even arcing. I hear dry snow can do the same thing. I was trying out a 4:1 voltage balun one day and noticed that particular noise source had gone away since the balun was a DC short and bled off the charges. A later loop also didn't have the problem. An RF choke or high-ohm resistor across the dipole feedpoint will also cure the problem. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219292 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus References: <437813a2$0$75798$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:55:49 GMT Dave Pitzer wrote: > I'm considering buying the "CCRadio Plus" from the C Crane Co. for use as a > "good" general purpose table radio with an above average AM section. Any > comments? I bought one hoping to receive 10kw WTAW clearly at night >from 30 miles away. It's a nice radio but didn't solve that midnight reception problem. My Grundig Yacht Boy 400 receives just as well as the CCRadio Plus. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219293 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Re: coax for 900mhz? Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 15:26:11 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <11202-43768BC0-603@storefull-3258.bay.webtv.net> <1131972855.789984.159790@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> A SOLID POLYETHELINE COAXIAL LINE :- Length = 5 metres (15 feet). Outer conductor diameter = 25 mm (1 inch). Inner conductor diameter = 7 mm (1/3 inch). Impedance = 50 ohms. Velocity factor = 0.665 At 900 MHz, it has an overall matched loss of about 0.8 decibels. With an SWR of 2:1 loss may increase to 1 dB. The above figures will give you some idea of the sort of stuff you are looking for. Halve the diameters and roughly double the loss. For any other dimensions download program COAXPAIR from website below. If you have any cable of unknown characteristics lying around doing nothing, then have a sensible guess at dimensions and just insert data into the program. It is very easy to use. The program itself, from audio frequencies up to the GHz range, is generally at least as accurate as cable dimensions can be measured using ordinary engineering instruments. It is of professional grade, usable by cable designers and workers in the field of resonant transmission lines for impedance-matching purposes. One useful program output is the input impedance and SWR of any coaxial line, of any length, for any terminating impedance at any frequency. It is necessary to know the line's velocity factor which for solid polyethylene is always 0.66 Other types of line are similarly covered by other programs available >from the website. But for your particular application, download program COAXPAIR. ---- ........................................................... Regards from Reg, G4FGQ For Free Radio Design Software go to http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp ........................................................... Article: 219294 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mike Luther Subject: Re: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 15:32:34 +0000 Message-ID: <11nhbgi4jujsb7c@corp.supernews.com> References: <437813a2$0$75798$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Hi Cecil! Cecil Moore wrote: > Dave Pitzer wrote: > >> I'm considering buying the "CCRadio Plus" from the C Crane Co. for >> use as a >> "good" general purpose table radio with an above average AM >> section. Any >> comments? > > > I bought one hoping to receive 10kw WTAW clearly at night > from 30 miles away. It's a nice radio but didn't solve > that midnight reception problem. My Grundig Yacht Boy 400 > receives just as well as the CCRadio Plus. Isn't our old friend WTAW on streaming audio as well? I think I recall hearing that it is. As a thought to the original poster, perhaps the stations he is seeking are on streaming audio over the web as well. Incidentally, I'd love to be able to get KMVL-AM in Madisonville where you are, at the in-town family home site in College Station, at night, chuckle. But at night on 1220 when KMVL-AM is at 3 watts, that's even a few DB worse than your choice for 10KW, grin. W5WQN -- --> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;) Mike Luther Article: 219295 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus References: <437813a2$0$75798$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> <11nhbgi4jujsb7c@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: <4p2ef.11227$BZ5.67@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 15:52:32 GMT Mike Luther wrote: > Isn't our old friend WTAW on streaming audio as well? I'm just lazy. My IC-756PRO also receives it pretty well on my G5RV. But my computer and ICOM are not in my bedroom and I like to set the CCRadio timer to one hour so it will turn off automatically after I go to sleep listening to Coast-To-Coast AM with George and Art. > Incidentally, I'd love to be able to get KMVL-AM in Madisonville where > you are, at the in-town family home site in College Station, at night, > chuckle. But at night on 1220 when KMVL-AM is at 3 watts, that's even a > few DB worse than your choice for 10KW, grin. WTAW advertises 10kw but may run at reduced power at night. That might be part of the problem. And I could switch over to KMVL but music doesn't put me to sleep as fast as Art Bell. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219296 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Re: Loop Antennas Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:38:02 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <11mvjfic11rdq9f@corp.supernews.com> <1131958614.763293.134450@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Cec, in this little country we don't seem to suffer from static from dust or other dry storms. Rather rarely, when a thunderstorm is in the vicinity, I have experienced rain-static which occurs only during a heavy 'tropical' downpour. At such times I am inclined to disconnect the antenna, anyway, to avoid damage due to a direct lightning strike on the antenna or house. The S-meter may rise to S-10 or S-11 for a few minutes but this extreme occurs only once every few years. I have never experienced static due to dry snow. I have only once experienced static on a nice warm day with a completely blue sky and this lasted only for half an hour. Never figured out why. Using a high value resistor or choke to ground the antenna doesn't have any effect on S-meter noise level. I would not expect it to. I cannot see how loop antennas are less susceptible to static except that their smaller size may have a smaller catchment area for particles or raindrops. Could you briefly describe what happens to the S-meter on the 160, 80 and 40 meter bands when severe static occurs in Texas, or any other States, and how frequently static weather conditions occur strong enough to temporally put one off the air? ---- Reg. Article: 219297 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Bill" Subject: Handling 450 line...?? Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:57:46 -0500 Laying out at 16 element "Sterba" into Europe... Getting the 450 line into the shack!! 1.- Should I float the 450 line into some 2 inch PVC through the wall then mid-air it 5 feet to the tuner....?? 2.- Or should I mount the 4:1 balun on the outside then bring co-ax through the wall ...then 5 feet top the tuner.... 3.-..Or...?? TNX, Bill kc4pe@mindspring.com Article: 219298 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Re: Handling 450 line...?? Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:14:52 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: Just bring the two 450-ohm wires close together for a few inches and bring them into the shack through a small, single, insulated hole in the wall or window frame. Once inside the shack you can do what you like with it for the few feet between the hole in the wall and the tuner / transmitter. ======================================= Article: 219299 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Loop Antennas References: <11mvjfic11rdq9f@corp.supernews.com> <1131958614.763293.134450@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:22:18 GMT Reg Edwards wrote: > Could you briefly describe what happens to the S-meter on the 160, 80 > and 40 meter bands when severe static occurs in Texas, or any other > States, and how frequently static weather conditions occur strong > enough to temporally put one off the air? On my IC-745 in AZ, the coax connector would arc many times at the transceiver about once a month during late summer. It pinned the S-meter but didn't seem to damage the IC-745. It arced whether the IC-745 was on or off. A 4:1 voltage balun cured that particular arcing problem although it generated other problems. The PL-239 coax connectors must arc around 300 volts or so. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219300 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Handling 450 line...?? References: Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:25:53 GMT Bill wrote: > Laying out a 16 element "Sterba" into Europe... What is the feedpoint impedance? Single band? > Getting the 450 line into the shack!! If the feedpoint impedance is around 50 ohms and it is single band, feed it with N*1/2WL of ladder-line through a 1:1 current/choke balun. Coax can be run >from the balun into the house. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219301 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Steve Nosko" Subject: Re: fmt Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 13:21:35 -0600 Message-ID: References: Owen, I believe you are mistaken. The carrier frequency is given. It will be measured, in Newington, against either a cesium or rubidium standard (don't remember which), but I don't know if it will actually be _controlled_ by the standard.. It is only the audio tone which is the unknown. 73, Steve, K,9.D;C'I "Owen Duffy" wrote in message news:a3p7n15r1agbfgfmhl577ske4j4u5psfhg@4ax.com... > On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:06:56 GMT, ml wrote: > > >hi > > > >I noticed the below lately and wonder, being new at this ... how one > >would measure it? > > > >is their a step by step guide or just a specific instrument(s) you need > > > >I'd love to learn and try it, but didn't see any posted > >''instructions''... > >any help appreciated > > This looks like a guessing game / lottery to some extent, since no > information is given on the stability of either the virtual carrier or > the modulating tone (yet you are advised they both may vary) and the > time of measurement (an instant?) is part of the submitted data. > > The winner using a sound scientific approach to measurement may > require luck to be not beaten by a less accurate, but closer answer at > some moment. > > Owen > > > > > >m > > > > > >partially cut from the arrl's email > >"Returning to the airwaves November 17 at 0245 UTC (Wednesday, > >November 16 in US time zones), the 2005 ARRL Frequency Measuring > >Test (FMT) once again will call on participants to measure the > >frequency of an audio tone modulating the carrier. > > > >''Measuring the tone frequency, as opposed to that of the carrier, > >reinforces the understanding of the relationship between carrier > >frequency and the actual components of a transmitted signal,'' > >Engineer and ARRL Contributing Editor Ward Silver, N0AX, says in > >''Tune In the 2005 Frequency Measuring Test,'' in November QST (p > >54),...www.arrl.org/w1aw/fmt/2005/05fmtsilver.pdf. ''With the carrier > >largely suppressed for SSB signals, only the sideband components > >remain. A single modulating tone results in a single transmitted > >component.'' But, Silver notes, the frequency of the absent carrier > >is what the operator sees on the radio's display. > > > >The FMT signals will emanate from Maxim Memorial Station W1AW this > >year on 160, 80 and 40 meters. The 20-meter transmission has been > >dropped for 2005 because of the generally poor conditions during > >evening hours on that band. The frequencies will be 1855, 3990 and > >7290 kHz, and all transmissions will be on lower sideband (LSB). The > >FMT will replace the W1AW phone bulletin normally transmitted at > >0245 UTC on November 17 (November 16 in US time zones). > > > >Participants may utilize either direct or indirect techniques to > >determine the tone frequency. ''Direct measurements assume a carrier > >frequency and measure the audio tone frequency directly,'' Silver > >explains. ''Indirect measurements obtain the transmitted frequency of > >the tone component at RF, then compute the difference between the > >published carrier frequency and measured frequency.'' > > > >Silver advises that since the W1AW exciters are independent units > >and not fed with a single local oscillator, participants can expect > >the measured tone frequency to differ slightly on each band. > > > >The test itself will consist of three 60-second tone transmissions > >on each band, followed by a station identification. The whole test > >will run for about 15 minutes and will end with a station ID. > > > >Submitted reports should include the time of reception and the tone > >frequency. Those using an indirect measurement method should show > >how they calculated the tone frequency. Participants also should > >include name, call sign and location in their reports, and they may > >submit separate reports for each band. A Certificate of > >Participation is available to all entrants. > -- Article: 219302 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mike Luther Subject: Re: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 00:33:09 +0000 Message-ID: <11nib669a7hdcb1@corp.supernews.com> References: <437813a2$0$75798$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> <11nhbgi4jujsb7c@corp.supernews.com> <4p2ef.11227$BZ5.67@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> ROTFL! Cecil Moore wrote: > WTAW advertises 10kw but may run at reduced power at night. > That might be part of the problem. And I could switch over > to KMVL but music doesn't put me to sleep as fast as Art > Bell. :-) Double :) :) -- --> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;) Mike Luther Article: 219303 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Nick Kennedy" References: <11n7ktuncrro4e9@corp.supernews.com> <11n7loiiljqs9af@corp.supernews.com> <11nbsoiiua7d8e5@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: fmt Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:42:01 -0600 OK, I found that QEX after much fuming and searching, under some recipes, bills and phone books in the kitchen ... Giessinger doesn't refer to Day's work. Among several references is one to a work by Robert Dick in the Jan/Feb 1999 issue of QEX. I won't try to paraphrase extensively, since I don't think I understand the technique well enough to do it properly. It involves analyzing vowel sounds, which have a fundamental and harmonics of predictable relative amplitudes. I suppose you find the harmonic peaks and note the error in their frequency relationship caused by mis-tuning, and there you go. Sounds simple, if you don't have to actually do it. ;^) I can see where it would be pretty straightforward (relatively) with music, but doing this with voice is impressive to me. Apparently similar techniques are now being used in high end rigs like the IC-7800. 73--Nick, WA5BDU "J. Mc Laughlin" wrote in message news:11nbsoiiua7d8e5@corp.supernews.com... > Dear Nick: Fascinating. When you find the QEX article please report back. > 73 Mac N8TT > > -- > J. Mc Laughlin; Michigan U.S.A. > Home: JCM@Power-Net.Net > "Nick Kennedy" wrote in message > news:BWcdf.2375$ih5.1677@dukeread11... > > "J. Mc Laughlin" wrote in message > > news:11n7loiiljqs9af@corp.supernews.com... > > > Here is the title and author's name: > > > A method for accurate receiver tuning and precise measurement of the > > carrier > > > frequency of voice-modulated, suppressed-carrier, single-sideband radio > > > signals > > > Day, Lucius Boyden. > > > > > > I do not know where it might be read on the WEB. 73 Mac N8TT > > > > > > It sounds similar to a recent article. I see that in the July/August QEX > > there was an article called "A Blind Automatic Frequency Control Algorithm > > for Single Sideband" by Geissinger. I can't find that issue, so don't > know > > it used Mr. Day's technique or not. > > > > 73--Nick, WA5BDU > > > > > > Article: 219304 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "J. Mc Laughlin" Subject: Re: fmt Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:55:15 -0500 Message-ID: <11niqgj35v1v29e@corp.supernews.com> References: <11n7ktuncrro4e9@corp.supernews.com> <11n7loiiljqs9af@corp.supernews.com> <11nbsoiiua7d8e5@corp.supernews.com> Dear Nick: Fascinating. Many thanks for the reference and for an abstract. It is possible that the methods are related. When things die down, I intend to write to Day. Thanks again for your help and to others for stimulating thoughts about things from long ago. 73 Mac N8TT -- J. Mc Laughlin; Michigan U.S.A. Home: JCM@Power-Net.Net "Nick Kennedy" wrote in message news:G%aef.10984$ih5.9189@dukeread11... > OK, I found that QEX after much fuming and searching, under some recipes, > bills and phone books in the kitchen ... > > Giessinger doesn't refer to Day's work. Among several references is one to > a work by Robert Dick in the Jan/Feb 1999 issue of QEX. > > I won't try to paraphrase extensively, since I don't think I understand the > technique well enough to do it properly. It involves analyzing vowel > sounds, which have a fundamental and harmonics of predictable relative > amplitudes. I suppose you find the harmonic peaks and note the error in > their frequency relationship caused by mis-tuning, and there you go. Sounds > simple, if you don't have to actually do it. ;^) > > I can see where it would be pretty straightforward (relatively) with music, > but doing this with voice is impressive to me. > > Apparently similar techniques are now being used in high end rigs like the > IC-7800. > > 73--Nick, WA5BDU > > "J. Mc Laughlin" wrote in message > news:11nbsoiiua7d8e5@corp.supernews.com... > > Dear Nick: Fascinating. When you find the QEX article please report > back. > > 73 Mac N8TT > > > > -- > > J. Mc Laughlin; Michigan U.S.A. > > Home: JCM@Power-Net.Net > > "Nick Kennedy" wrote in message > > news:BWcdf.2375$ih5.1677@dukeread11... > > > "J. Mc Laughlin" wrote in message > > > news:11n7loiiljqs9af@corp.supernews.com... > > > > Here is the title and author's name: > > > > A method for accurate receiver tuning and precise measurement of the > > > carrier > > > > frequency of voice-modulated, suppressed-carrier, single-sideband > radio > > > > signals > > > > Day, Lucius Boyden. > > > > > > > > I do not know where it might be read on the WEB. 73 Mac N8TT > > > > > > > > > It sounds similar to a recent article. I see that in the July/August > QEX > > > there was an article called "A Blind Automatic Frequency Control > Algorithm > > > for Single Sideband" by Geissinger. I can't find that issue, so don't > > know > > > it used Mr. Day's technique or not. > > > > > > 73--Nick, WA5BDU > > > > > > > > > > > > Article: 219305 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Asimov" Subject: Re: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus Message-ID: References: <4p2ef.11227$BZ5.67@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 05:11:03 GMT "Cecil Moore" bravely wrote to "All" (14 Nov 05 15:52:32) --- on the heady topic of "Re: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus" CM> From: Cecil Moore CM> Xref: core-easynews rec.radio.amateur.antenna:220052 CM> WTAW advertises 10kw but may run at reduced power at night. CM> That might be part of the problem. And I could switch over CM> to KMVL but music doesn't put me to sleep as fast as Art CM> Bell. :-) No wonder it puts you to sleep. Here you are with an IQ of nearly 170 and to have to listen to perfect morons using 10 gallon words inappropriately must just lull you into unconsciousness before they reach the end of their speil. You have to be a masochist! A*s*i*m*o*v ... Plato was a bore. - Friedrich Nietzsche Article: 219306 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: mcalhoun@ksu.edu Subject: Re: Handling 450 line...?? Date: 14 Nov 2005 23:08:07 -0600 Message-ID: References: >Laying out a 16 element "Sterba" into Europe... >Getting the 450 line into the shack!! >1.- Should I float the 450 line into some 2 inch PVC > through the wall then mid-air it 5 feet to the tuner....?? I've never used notched-plastic, looks-like-wide-TV 450 line, but I have used true "open wire" kind (two parallel wires with 1" separation and little insulators every six inches), and to get that through a wall I used two ceramic "tubes" from old "knob and tube" house wiring by drilling two holes with 1" separation thru the wall (with a slight downward slant so water runs out), cut the 450 line at the appropriate place, remove one insulator (to give a little working room), thread wires thru insulators, and solder the line back together inside the house.... A RELATED QUESTION: what is(are) the difference(s) between the two kinds of 450-ohm line? I suspect the velocity of the true open-wire kind is a little higher and loss and moisture effects are a little lower than for the partially-covered-in-plastic line? -- --Myron A. Calhoun. Five boxes preserve our freedoms: soap, ballot, witness, jury, and cartridge PhD EE (retired). "Barbershop" tenor. CDL(PTXS). W0PBV. (785) 539-4448 NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor (Home Firearm Safety, Rifle, Pistol) Article: 219307 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: 'Doc Subject: Re: Handling 450 line...?? References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:50:18 GMT Bill, You can do it either way, just not that critical. Or, as Reg suggested, or Cecil. Or, put a board in a close window, drill a couple of holes in it about an inch apart and run 'connection' wires through from ourside/inside (or a couple of bolts). I'm sure you'll get other suggestions... 'Doc Article: 219308 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus References: <4p2ef.11227$BZ5.67@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:36:22 GMT Asimov wrote: > No wonder it puts you to sleep. Here you are with an IQ of nearly 170 > and to have to listen to perfect morons using 10 gallon words > inappropriately must just lull you into unconsciousness before they > reach the end of their speil. You have to be a masochist! Just trying to support my fellow ham, Art Bell. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219309 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "amdx" Subject: Speaking of A.M. reception Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 07:40:35 -0600 Message-ID: The recent CCrane thread got me to wondering again. What would go into building a good system for receiving BCB A.M. radio? A complete system, starting with a directional antenna, (loop, flag, etc.) A system to seperate stations on the same frequency. Building a strong front end. Good audio. Just looking for a discussion regarding design of a great BCB radio. Mike Article: 219310 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Jeff Dieterle" Subject: Re: Am reception Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:00:39 -0500 Message-ID: <11njqg79ekqi678@corp.supernews.com> References: <11n9b1ak6fquaaa@corp.supernews.com> <1131730430.536689.322880@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> I'll try the long wire antenna attached to the coax center conductor. I can put around 60ft of #12ga single conductor insulated wire. Should this be at right angles to the stations I want to receive or parallel? What do I do with the shield on the coax? wrote in message news:1131730430.536689.322880@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > Jeff Dieterle wrote: > I've ran RGU-6 coax from my office to the factory roof, >> (appx.75ft) as I doubt if the loop would pull these in from inside my >> office >> which is inside the factory. >> >> Is there a less expensive alternative than the loop since I have coax >> installed ? >> >> Thanks >> Jeff > > Did you connect the coax to anything at all, or is it just coax > going outside to the roof, > Connecting it to the metal gutters or something like that might really > help the reception. > If there are no metal gutters or anything like that, connect a long > piece of wire to the center conductor of the coax and lay it out on the > roof. > > You might also try just taking a piece of wire and connecting it to > the back of the GE SRIII, connect it to the AM screw terminal on the > back of the radio and take that wire over to the window and see if that > works, or you can continue that wire all the way from the back of the > radio all the way out to the roof. > > I also remember something like winding wire around something like a > Quaker oatmeal container, contecting both ends of this wire to a small > air variable cap and just placing this antenna right behind the GE SR, > near its internal antenna. You can then tune the cap for peak reception > and then turn it and the radio to get the stations you want, this coil > of wire enhances the internal antenna of the GE SR. > > Craig > Article: 219311 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Earl Needham" Subject: Re: Speaking of A.M. reception Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 08:49:31 -0700 Message-ID: <11nk0sb9lh2jq82@corp.supernews.com> References: "amdx" wrote in message news:a9d60$4379e54e$18d64e2f$22584@KNOLOGY.NET... > The recent CCrane thread got me to wondering again. > What would go into building a good system for receiving > BCB A.M. radio? > A complete system, starting with a directional antenna, > (loop, flag, etc.) A system to seperate stations on the same > frequency. Building a strong front end. Good audio. > Just looking for a discussion regarding design of a great > BCB radio. Getting the standard changed to SSB would be a great start, but it'll never happen. 7 3 Earl KD5XB -- Earl Needham Clovis, New Mexico USA Article: 219312 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Bob Subject: Re: Speaking of A.M. reception References: Message-ID: <4dap43-s3c.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:10:59 -0600 How about doing it in software with a simple direct conversion receiver and I/Q outputs going into your PC's sound card line ins? Lots of provision for DSP filtering, lots of available audio b/w etc... Cheers Bob VK2YQA amdx wrote: > The recent CCrane thread got me to wondering again. > What would go into building a good system for receiving > BCB A.M. radio? > A complete system, starting with a directional antenna, > (loop, flag, etc.) A system to seperate stations on the same > frequency. Building a strong front end. Good audio. > Just looking for a discussion regarding design of a great > BCB radio. > > Mike > > Article: 219313 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: noway@nohow.com Subject: Re: Speaking of A.M. reception Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 16:02:28 GMT Message-ID: References: <11nk0sb9lh2jq82@corp.supernews.com> On 15-Nov-2005, "Earl Needham" wrote: > Getting the standard changed to SSB would be a great start, but it'll > never happen. > > 7 3 > Earl > KD5XB ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Even better would be to eliminate all HF broadcasting and move it to UHF FM. That "might" happen, but not soon. 73, Bill W6WRT Article: 219314 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "amdx" References: <4dap43-s3c.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> Subject: Re: Speaking of A.M. reception Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:34:53 -0600 Message-ID: <66ec8$437a1c38$18d64e2f$10298@KNOLOGY.NET> "Bob Bob" wrote in message news:4dap43-s3c.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net... > How about doing it in software with a simple direct conversion receiver > and I/Q outputs going into your PC's sound card line ins? Lots of > provision for DSP filtering, lots of available audio b/w etc... Ok, how about the Tayloe detector, it has a strong front end and I and Q outputs. Anyway to use this to eliminate stations on the same freq. Maybe two antennas and two detectors phased or computer manipulated? Mike > > Cheers Bob VK2YQA > > amdx wrote: > > The recent CCrane thread got me to wondering again. > > What would go into building a good system for receiving > > BCB A.M. radio? > > A complete system, starting with a directional antenna, > > (loop, flag, etc.) A system to seperate stations on the same > > frequency. Building a strong front end. Good audio. > > Just looking for a discussion regarding design of a great > > BCB radio. > > > > Mike > > > > Article: 219315 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison) Subject: Re: Speaking of A.M. reception Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:27:10 -0600 Message-ID: <26953-437A1A6E-1050@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net> References: Mike wrote: "Just looking for a discussion regarding fesign of a great BCB radio." It has already been done. The SCR 274 N or ARC-5 series included a receiver which covered most of the AM broadcast band. With a wire connected to its antenna post, a unique signal appears every 10 KHz Across the dial. All that`s needed is transistorization. I used one of the originals with a 12-V dynamotor as a a car radio for years. Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI Article: 219316 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "amdx" References: <4p2ef.11227$BZ5.67@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Subject: Re: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:47:46 -0600 Message-ID: "Cecil Moore" wrote in message news:qvlef.20004$Zv5.1746@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net... > Asimov wrote: > > No wonder it puts you to sleep. Here you are with an IQ of nearly 170 > > and to have to listen to perfect morons using 10 gallon words > > inappropriately must just lull you into unconsciousness before they > > reach the end of their speil. You have to be a masochist! > > Just trying to support my fellow ham, Art Bell. :-) > -- > 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp I lost interest in Art Bell when he interviewed a lady who said, "I got into the mind of the spider, as he crawled across the wall." Mike Article: 219317 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus References: <4p2ef.11227$BZ5.67@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:47:37 GMT amdx wrote: > I lost interest in Art Bell when he interviewed a lady who said, > "I got into the mind of the spider, as he crawled across the wall." Now "Be The Beast" is on the National Geographic channel. Did you hear Art Bell interview Wayne Green? -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219318 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Dick, AA5VU" Subject: Re: W9INN antenna Help References: <78ydnb1E5L2fxOveRVn-gg@comcast.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 21:14:29 GMT In article <78ydnb1E5L2fxOveRVn-gg@comcast.com>, "Steve" wrote: > My question is when running a ballun as the W9INN antenna does. > Can it be hung right to the tower leg or should it be on a stand off. > To keep it away from the tower legs buy 3 Steve, I have been using a W9INN antenna system for years and I don't think Bill (w9inn now SK) ever sold an antenna with a balun. His antennas came with a balun looking device that was just a center insulator. FYI, I have my W9INN 80/40 dipole mounted on a 1 foot stand off with cord and pulley arrangement for easy adjustments. I modified the antenna by adding extra wire sets for the WARC bands and it now should be called a fan dipole in a Vee configuration. It has always performed well and we are all going to miss Bill, W9INN. I recalled years ago working Bill on 40 meters and he said I was the first person he had ever really worked on the air using one of his antennas. 73 Dick AA5VU Article: 219319 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Miller Subject: Re: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus Message-ID: References: <4p2ef.11227$BZ5.67@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 21:52:28 GMT On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:47:37 GMT, Cecil Moore wrote: >amdx wrote: >> I lost interest in Art Bell when he interviewed a lady who said, >> "I got into the mind of the spider, as he crawled across the wall." > >Now "Be The Beast" is on the National Geographic channel. >Did you hear Art Bell interview Wayne Green? Wayne's recommended reading list was pretty amazing. Did they really fake the moon shot in a TV studio? bob k5qwg Article: 219320 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "johan aeq" References: <1132024512.503523.92070@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Need Info on Roelof Bakker [PA0RDT] "Mini-Whip" Active Antenna Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 23:00:27 +0100 Message-ID: <9bee7$437a5c4f$52ad139c$20939@news.versatel.nl> Hello, Roel lives in The Netherlands in Middelburg. His emailadres is @amsat.org. I suggest you should email him. If you like i can give you his telephonenumber or addres.... Greetings Johan PE1AEQ "RHF" schreef in bericht news:1132024512.503523.92070@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Steve Muldoon [N8KOM] > > Roelof Bakker's "PA0RDT Mini-Whip". > http://beaconworld.org.uk/images1/alspics/miniwhiplarge.jpg > > I have also added a new antenna recently, the amazing > little "mini-whip" designed and developed by fellow > Dutch NDB Enthusiast Roelof Bakker, PA0RDT. > > This small 'active whip' is not much longer than my pen, > and works very well from its perch at the top of my bird > feeding station in my back garden. > > If space is a problem at your QTH, or you are planning > some outdoor operating in the near future, one of these > impressive little devices might be just what you are > looking for. > > NOTE - There seems to be few references to the PA0RDT > "Mini-Whip" Active Antenna. > > ~ RHF > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/ > > = = = In Shortwave-SWL-Antenna@yahoogroups.com, > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/6525 > = = = "Steve Muldoon" wrote: > > Greetings All - > > Can anyone provide, or direct me to design information > or reference material for the Roelof Bakker PA0RDT > "Mini-Whip" Active antenna? > > Saw a reference to this Antenna on the BeaconWorld website. > > http://beaconworld.org.uk/beaconrx.htm > > Thanks - Steve N8KOM > . > . > . . > . > Article: 219321 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus References: <4p2ef.11227$BZ5.67@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 22:22:37 GMT Bob Miller wrote: > Wayne's recommended reading list was pretty amazing. Did they really > fake the moon shot in a TV studio? I saw "Destination Moon" back in the '50's. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219322 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Loop Antennas References: <11mvjfic11rdq9f@corp.supernews.com> <1132094555.444327.290250@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 00:24:01 GMT pdrahn@coinet.com wrote: > Also, what type of insulators are your using in the > corners? Ceramic compression? Glass, Other type ceramic? Anyone using > plastic insulators? Ceramic electric fence insulators are ideal for loop corners. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219323 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Hal Rosser" References: <26953-437A1A6E-1050@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net> Subject: Re: Speaking of A.M. reception Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:14:36 -0500 "Richard Harrison" wrote in message news:26953-437A1A6E-1050@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net... > Mike wrote: > "Just looking for a discussion regarding fesign of a great BCB radio." > > It has already been done. The SCR 274 N or ARC-5 series included a > receiver which covered most of the AM broadcast band. With a wire > connected to its antenna post, a unique signal appears every 10 KHz > Across the dial. All that`s needed is transistorization. I used one of > the originals with a 12-V dynamotor as a a car radio for years. > > Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI If you can find a R-390 or R-392 and copy the front-end of that sweet receiver, - THEN you'd have a fine one. Article: 219324 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Bob Subject: Re: Speaking of A.M. reception References: <4dap43-s3c.ln1@p400bob.personal.cox.net> <66ec8$437a1c38$18d64e2f$10298@KNOLOGY.NET> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 09:44:12 -0600 Dont know Mike I would suspect by itself I/Q detection/demod wouldnt help in a situation where AM stations are using the exact same frequency. Two antennas/RX detect systems could certainly be used if you can get a usable phase diff between stations and use that for phase cancellation. (ie not an I/Q RX as such) Could even do that in software and be very specific as to what phase diff range is cancelled. You'd have to sample at RF rather than AF though which makes the project more $/complicated. You could also DSP filter based on audio content. That would be a real difficult one! Directive antenna? Cheers Bob amdx wrote: > Ok, how about the Tayloe detector, it has a strong front end and I and Q > outputs. > Anyway to use this to eliminate stations on the same freq. Maybe two > antennas and two > detectors phased or computer manipulated? > > Mike Article: 219325 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Miller Subject: Re: Hi-Fi tuner aerial connection query. Message-ID: References: <1132062816.151387.236660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:12:09 GMT On 15 Nov 2005 05:53:36 -0800, JohnEllicottington@lycos.co.uk wrote: >Hi >I would like to connect my hi-fi's tuner to my TV's communial aerial >socket on the wall with the aid of some sort of coaxial splitter, is >this possible? On the rear of the hi-fi are the aerial connectors which >appear to accept strands of exposed wire by pressing and releasing a >small lever. The five connections are split between 300ohm, 75ohm and >AM. Whats the best way to get a decent reception from the tuner? >Thanks for any advice. >Johno Do you have Radio Shacks in the UK? I'd just go to them or someone similar, and let them provide you with a splitter and the appropos cables. (Enter "splitter" at the RS site and it comes up with 35 matches.) bob k5qwg Article: 219326 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "W4LM" Subject: Re: Loop Antennas Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:45:44 -0500 Message-ID: References: <11mvjfic11rdq9f@corp.supernews.com> <1132094555.444327.290250@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> Paul, It really doesn't matter to much how you prepare or fix the corners. I have used free floating and fastened down tight. If they are in the trees sooner of later the wire will snap regardless of how you have the corners prepared. The alpha-delta cin insulator from Radio Works $1.50 are very good one to consider using. Larry/W4LM wrote in message news:1132094555.444327.290250@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... > Now that we have heard all the benefits of various loop antennas, I > have a question about the physical part of the antenna. I am planning > on erecting an 80 meter or perhaps 160 meter square loop antenna. The > question is how have you fixed the corners of your loop antenna? Can > the antenna wire move in the insulator so as to equalize the force on > each side? Or is the insulator in the corner fastened tightly to the > antenna wire? Also, what type of insulators are your using in the > corners? Ceramic compression? Glass, Other type ceramic? Anyone using > plastic insulators? > > TIA > Paul, KD7HB > Redmond, OR > Article: 219327 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Bill Grimwood" References: Subject: Re: Isotron antennas Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:49:48 -0600 Message-ID: I don't know much about these antennas but I have a friend in Colorado who has one and we often talk on 20 or 40 meters. He has only 100 watts output and he puts a strong signal into Alabama. It certainly seems to work for him. I have a Carolina Windom and I believe his Isotron performs better than my windom. Bill W4WEG "Dave Oldridge" wrote in message news:Xns970C6FCF481CEdoldridgsprintca@24.71.223.159... > I've been seeing pictures of these weird antennas for years. Near as I > can > tell from the picture, it's essentially a heavily-loaded very short dipole > with two large capacity hats at the ends. But it's impossible to tell > from > the pictures what the exact configuration is. Can anyone tell me exactly > what's happening? Is the mast part of the radiating system? The > feedline? > The literature (including the manuals) sort of implies that it is. > > Also, from the pictures, I get the impression that the standard mast-mount > configuration is mostly vertically polarized. This would certainly > account > for reports I have read that the antenna is a bit of a dud at short range > on 80m. > > If someone has a computer model for it for MMHAMSOFT's modeller, that > would > be GREAT! > > The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of trying to design > something really low profile for a second floor apartment balcony for 75 > and 80m. > > -- > Dave Oldridge+ > VA7CZ > ICQ 1800667 Article: 219328 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "AAA RF Products" Subject: FS: RG-213/U Coax Cable Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 09:57:49 -0800 RG-213/U, 50 Ohm, low loss, high power handling, Coax Cable, Made in USA, meets or exceeds MIL-C-17 specs. Ideal replacement for RG-8/U. 10 to 99 feet $.75/ft 100 to 999 feet $.66/ft 1,000 feet $600.00 For your free copy of our new catalog, please email sales@AAARFProducts.com or see www.aaarfproducts.com Article: 219329 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: feedlines and strange intereactions References: <1132157973.945787.48940@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 18:21:58 GMT Paladin wrote: > BUT, I'm still trying to understand exactly just WHAT > antennas can or cannot do for me. That's what antenna modeling programs are for. A free demo version of EZNEC is available at www.eznec.com and will probably do what you want done including the primary transmission line length. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219330 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Isotron antennas References: Message-ID: <2QKef.19566$tV6.17446@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 18:25:02 GMT Bill Grimwood wrote: > I don't know much about these antennas but I have a friend in Colorado who > has one and we often talk on 20 or 40 meters. He has only 100 watts output > and he puts a strong signal into Alabama. It certainly seems to work for > him. I have a Carolina Windom and I believe his Isotron performs better > than my windom. Due, no doubt, to radiation from his feedline. If you both replaced the vertical section of your feedline with a good ground-plane vertical, it might improve even more. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219331 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: FS: RG-213/U Coax Cable References: Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 18:28:00 GMT AAA RF Products wrote: > For your free copy of our new catalog, > please email sales@AAARFProducts.com > or see www.aaarfproducts.com FYI, for sale postings are against the guidelines for this newsgroup. rec.radio.swap may be the appropriate newsgroup but I don't remember if commercial postings are allowed. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219332 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "EasyRider" References: <11mvjfic11rdq9f@corp.supernews.com> <1132094555.444327.290250@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Loop Antennas Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 18:47:57 GMT wrote in message news:1132094555.444327.290250@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... > Now that we have heard all the benefits of various loop antennas, I > have a question about the physical part of the antenna. I am planning > on erecting an 80 meter or perhaps 160 meter square loop antenna. The > question is how have you fixed the corners of your loop antenna? Can > the antenna wire move in the insulator so as to equalize the force on > each side? Or is the insulator in the corner fastened tightly to the > antenna wire? Also, what type of insulators are your using in the > corners? Ceramic compression? Glass, Other type ceramic? Anyone using > plastic insulators? > > TIA > Paul, KD7HB > Redmond, OR Hi Paul and the group, I let my corners float and all I use are pvc 1/2 or 3/4 pipe 90 deg. elbows with dacron rope tied to around them then flug over a tree. Been using this method for years. No pulleys or extra fancy methods just rope and a elbow, this way I can move the antenna around if I choose to change my feed point at any time. Also allows for the stresses to even themselves out between the trees depending on how the wind blows. Although one tree is a very small sapling that stands about 40 feet high and the other three trees can pull it via the antenna wire with no great effort at all. Also have enough slack in the antenna to allow for rapid wind changes. Everyone has a different method and most are very good and serve the purpose they were intended to, one persons idea may not work in another area, but to each his own method works otherwise there would be a lot of trial and error going on, hi hi. Been there done that and got the hat to show for it to. I'm fortunate in my area as I don't get much wind at all, although I have used a similar method on the west coast of Vancouver Island with weighted milk jugs instead of tying off the support line for two of the four support lines. 73...de ve7agw, Al Port Alberni, BC Article: 219333 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John.Gotwals" Subject: Building small 80 meter loop antenna Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:33:51 GMT I am beginning my planning and construction of a small loop antenna for 80 meters. The loop will be constructed out of 3/4" copper pipe, octagon shaped, and have a perimeter of 72 feet. The plane of the loop will be vertical and will be resonated by a variable capacitor in series with the top pipe section. The voltage and current through the capacitor have very large values. See http://tinyurl.com/bwobb for more information. Any comments, thoughts, and advice will be greatly appreciated. John, N9JG Article: 219334 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: mcalhoun@ksu.edu Subject: Nature of "ground" beneath my house? Date: 16 Nov 2005 13:24:39 -0600 Message-ID: What kind of "ground" should I use to EZNEC-model a flat-top dipole antenna of which one side will be about 7 feet above and parallel to the peak of my house roof and the other half will be about 30 feet above the yard. My house is a story-and-a-half (the usual attic was a dormitory for my long-gone kids) over a full basement (which just happens to have both a Ufer ground in the basement-wall footings and a "ring ground" around the outside and at the level of the footings). Thus most of one-half of the antenna will be over the usual Kansas soil (about a foot of fertile stuff above many feet of more clay-like stuff) while the other half will be above the roof above the attic/dormitory above the ground floor above the basement above the footings. So will this be a "good", "bad", "average", or ??? ground for EZNEC- modeling purposes? -- --Myron A. Calhoun. Five boxes preserve our freedoms: soap, ballot, witness, jury, and cartridge PhD EE (retired). "Barbershop" tenor. CDL(PTXS). W0PBV. (785) 539-4448 NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor (Home Firearm Safety, Rifle, Pistol) Article: 219335 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Isotron antennas Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:07:41 -0600 Message-ID: <11nn4cq294u6d2f@corp.supernews.com> References: <2QKef.19566$tV6.17446@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> Cecil Moore wrote: > Bill Grimwood wrote: > >> I don't know much about these antennas but I have a friend in Colorado >> who has one and we often talk on 20 or 40 meters. He has only 100 >> watts output and he puts a strong signal into Alabama. It certainly >> seems to work for him. I have a Carolina Windom and I believe his >> Isotron performs better than my windom. > > > Due, no doubt, to radiation from his feedline. If you both > replaced the vertical section of your feedline with a good > ground-plane vertical, it might improve even more. Bill; The best antenna for you is the antenna that works. I use a B&W folded dipole antenna daily. It does the job I need it to do. There are those that deride it as a "lossy dummy load". What it is is an antenna that dumps any excess energy into a 600 ohm resistor. The excess energy is that which is reflected back into the finals by any other antenna. It allows me to QSY and be tuned to any frequency I wish to use. In that I use NTIA frequencies in addition to Ham frequencies this it the best antenna for my use. As I said it works. Dave WD9BDZ Article: 219336 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Plans for B&W BWD-65 & BWD-90 Folded Dipole Balun & Terminating Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:17:12 -0600 Message-ID: <11nn4unsmn4ib2@corp.supernews.com> References: Dave; The only source of resistors and baluns that I have found suitable for making a B&W antenna is B&W. The terminating resistor is 600 ohms non-inductive i.e. carbon. The balun is 12 to 1 i.e. 600:50. If you do find instructions on making the balun please let me know. I use my B&W BWD-90 daily and it does the job I want it to do. I need broad band instant QSY for my radio. Dave WD9BDZ py8elo wrote: > Hi Dave, > I believe the resistor should not be inductive and it should have at > least 30% of the transmission power therefore, for 1500 Watts it should > be of at least 500 Watts. > I build the balun for this antenna (andthe antenna) but I believe in > your country is not difficult to acquire it. > I hope it can help you. > VY 73īs, > Silva. > PY8ELO > > Dave Wrote: > >>I'd like to build a replica of the B&W 65 or 90 folded dipole antenna. >> >>I know that there are a lot of arguments against this type of antenna >>but for the convienience, I would like to have one anyway. >> >>$220 - $250 seems a bit steep to buy one. >> >>I have read L.B. Cebik's article on Terminated Wideband Dipoles, >>http://www.cebik.com/wbfd.html but have been unable to find a source >>for the 800-900 ohm resistor or plans for a suitable 16:1 balun. >> >>The only resistors of that value and wattage I have found are >>wirewounds which I assume are not suitable because they are inductive. >> >>For an antenna to handle legal limit 1500 watts is it necessary for >>the terminating resistor to be 1500 watts? It seems to me that you >>would hope that the majority of the power would be dissappated by the >>wire and not the resistor. >> >>Does anyone know where I can find a plan for the balun (or a resonably >>priced commercially made one)? How about the resistor? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Dave > > > Article: 219337 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Self capacitance of solenoid coils Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:03:18 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: COPIED FROM ANOTHER NEWSGROUP > I see you are a follower of Medhurst. > > You might like > http://www.eagleware.com/pdf/apps/2020_FiltOscUsingSolenoid.pdf > > Andy, M1EBV ============================================== Andy, Thanks for pointing me towards the above document. I've never heard of Medhurst. Or anybody else who might have messed about with an arithmetical treatment of the subject. I've never bothered to look. I can't understand all the details (the paper is not very well written) but I gave the paper a couple of speedreads. It's interesting because it treats a solenoid as a transmission line. A few years back I evolved explicit formulae for calculating the self-capacitance and self-resonant frequency of single-layer, solenoid coils. Such coils are fairly common. They are used, for example, as RF chokes and, when wound with coaxial cable, as chokes in coaxial transmission lines. Sometimes they are just a hank of a few turns of coaxial cable. Apart from their connecting wires they are, in effect, isolated in space. Long solenoids also form helically wound vertical antennas which can be top-loaded with a rod. Or horizontal, short, continuously loaded dipoles where the resonant frequency is required to be predictable in advance of construction. With chokes it is required to calculate the band of frequencies over which the impedance exceeds a fairly high given value. My formulae are based on transmission lines with conductor length and diameter corresponding to length and diameter of the solenoid. I discovered this by analysis of the problem. (The author of the article discovered it by accident when making measurements.) Provided the number of turns is greater than 5 or 6, even with close-spaced turns, the capacitance between turns can be ignored. Very thin wire compared with wire spacing does decrease overall capacitance but not because wire-to-wire capacitance is less. As a check on the formula, if the wire is stretched out to be an exceedingly loose helix, then the resonant frequency becomes that of a straight length of wire - the wire is just a half-wavelength dipole and its resonant frequency coincides with the formula. Several of my programs use the formula which incorporates an inverse hyperbolic function. It always struck me as being incongruous to use such complicated functions for such a simple matter of calculating such a very small, inconspicuous capacitance. See programs SELFRES3, SOLNOID3, HELICAL3. There are other programs in which self-capacitance matters but the program user is unaware of it. What use could he make of it if values were displayed? An Autic Antenna Analyser can be used to measure the self-resonant frequency of a solenoid coil very accurately. Just place a 1 or 2-turn link-coupling around the CENTRE of the coil without any other connections. Connect the coil to the meter via an 18-inch length of loosely-twisted pair of wires. Suspend the coil in free-space using only the twisted pair. On the impedance magnitude range, tune the analyser for a VERY sharp rise in impedance - and there you have it. Maximum impedance will be several hundred ohms. Q will be very igh - it is easy to miss resonance. So much for old-wives tales about poor Q at self-resonance. You may notice a sharp null in the meter reading at a very slightly higher frequency which is due to a series-resonance in conjunction with the twisted-pair and the meter itself. If you can't detect a null, don't worry about it. This method works (I know of no other) with short fat loading coils, with 160-meter helical antennas 6 feet long with 1500 turns, and with coaxial chokes using a hank of a dozen turns, 8 inches in diameter. It fails when the coil's resonant frequency exceeds the range of the meter. By the way, the self-capacitance of coils depends on their close environment. It can jump about all over the place and change when long connecting leads are soldered on. My formula applies to a coil in free-space as the sensible starting point. I could derive an approxima te formula for your toroidal coils, they are only bent transmission lines, but at the age of 80 I don't wish to expend any further time on the subject. ---- Reg, G4FGQ. Article: 219338 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Re: Nature of "ground" beneath my house? Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:03:18 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: Just call it "poor" ground. But try them all. My guess is that it will make very little difference in performance as calculated by EZNEC whatever you call it. Horizontal or sloping dipoles are insenstive to what's underneath them. Radiating efficiency will be in the right ballpark. The structure, position and height of your house will have a much greater but indeterminate effect on radiation pattern and you cannot model your house using EZNEC. Even nearby neighbor's houses will have some effect. But you will never know what these effects are compared with the ideal pattern as presented by EZNEC. Antenna height above what's underneath is the most important parameter. In all probability, you will get around and about very well. Many amateurs do very nicely with even more peculiar antenna systems. ---- Reg. ===================================== wrote in message news:dlg11n$qf5@unix1.cc.ksu.edu... > What kind of "ground" should I use to EZNEC-model a flat-top dipole antenna > of which one side will be about 7 feet above and parallel to the peak of > my house roof and the other half will be about 30 feet above the yard. > > My house is a story-and-a-half (the usual attic was a dormitory for my > long-gone kids) over a full basement (which just happens to have both > a Ufer ground in the basement-wall footings and a "ring ground" around > the outside and at the level of the footings). Thus most of one-half > of the antenna will be over the usual Kansas soil (about a foot of fertile > stuff above many feet of more clay-like stuff) while the other half will > be above the roof above the attic/dormitory above the ground floor above > the basement above the footings. > > So will this be a "good", "bad", "average", or ??? ground for EZNEC- > modeling purposes? > -- > --Myron A. Calhoun. > Five boxes preserve our freedoms: soap, ballot, witness, jury, and cartridge > PhD EE (retired). "Barbershop" tenor. CDL(PTXS). W0PBV. (785) 539-4448 > NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor (Home Firearm Safety, Rifle, Pistol) Article: 219339 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Isotron antennas References: <2QKef.19566$tV6.17446@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> <11nn4cq294u6d2f@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 22:27:47 GMT David G. Nagel wrote: > The excess energy is > that which is reflected back into the finals by any other antenna. Sorry, in a tuned system, the "excess energy" is re-reflected back toward the antenna at the match point. Here's an example: 100w XMTR--50 ohm coax--+--1/2WL of 300 ohm twinlead--50 ohm antenna More than half the forward power is reflected from the antenna but it is turned around and re-reflected back toward the antenna at the coax/twinlead junction at point '+'. The reflected energy reaching the finals is ZERO! Reflected energy, per se, is not bad. Reflected energy that is allowed to reach the finals is bad. In most systems, an antenna tuner solves the problem. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219340 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Plans for B&W BWD-65 & BWD-90 Folded Dipole Balun & Terminating References: <11nn4unsmn4ib2@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 22:31:52 GMT David G. Nagel wrote: > The only source of resistors and baluns that I have found suitable for > making a B&W antenna is B&W. > The terminating resistor is 600 ohms non-inductive i.e. carbon. I've got about 50 of those 50w suckers in my junk box. They don't have to be carbon. If one reverses the coil direction of the resistance wire at mid-point in a wire-wound resistor, the inductance is minimumized over a certain range of frequencies. That's what the military often does. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219341 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: support vertical with PVC? References: <1132177125.071506.97410@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 22:34:02 GMT eternalsquire@comcast.net wrote: > Do any of you see a problem in RF tuning or resonance with supporting a > vertical pipe radiator by a vertical pipe base, seperated by a PVC > coupler so that the base can be part of the ground system? If you keep water off the PVC, all your problems will be mechanical. A couple of years in the Phoenix sun usually turns PVC into powder. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219342 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Miller Subject: Re: Building small 80 meter loop antenna Message-ID: References: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 01:53:19 GMT On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:33:51 GMT, "John.Gotwals" wrote: >I am beginning my planning and construction of a small loop antenna for 80 >meters. The loop will be constructed out of 3/4" copper pipe, octagon >shaped, and have a perimeter of 72 feet. The plane of the loop will be >vertical and will be resonated by a variable capacitor in series with the >top pipe section. The voltage and current through the capacitor have very >large values. > >See http://tinyurl.com/bwobb for more information. Any comments, thoughts, >and advice will be greatly appreciated. > >John, N9JG > That loop is detailed in chapter 5 of the ARRL Antenna Book (19th ed.). Might be worth getting the book if you're going to build it. bob k5qwg Article: 219343 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Plans for B&W BWD-65 & BWD-90 Folded Dipole Balun & Terminating Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 22:43:30 -0600 Message-ID: <11no2k7ascst16b@corp.supernews.com> References: <11nn4unsmn4ib2@corp.supernews.com> Silva; No reason why your plan should not work. It might require differend spacing but that is what amateur radios if for: experimentation. I will give it a try. Where did you get your balun or how did you make it? Is there a web page showing how? Dave WD9BDZ py8elo wrote: > Hi Dave, > I use a 1K Ohms resistor and a 16:1 balun. But you can use a 600 Ohms > resistor an a 12:1 balun. > I hope it can help you. > Best 73īs, > Silva PY8ELO. > > David G. Nagel Wrote: > >>Dave; >> >>The only source of resistors and baluns that I have found suitable for >>making a B&W antenna is B&W. The terminating resistor is 600 ohms >>non-inductive i.e. carbon. The balun is 12 to 1 i.e. 600:50. >> >>If you do find instructions on making the balun please let me know. I >>use my B&W BWD-90 daily and it does the job I want it to do. I need >>broad band instant QSY for my radio. >> >>Dave WD9BDZ >> >> >>py8elo wrote: >> >>Hi Dave, >>I believe the resistor should not be inductive and it should have at >>least 30% of the transmission power therefore, for 1500 Watts it >>should >>be of at least 500 Watts. >>I build the balun for this antenna (andthe antenna) but I believe in >>your country is not difficult to acquire it. >>I hope it can help you. >>VY 73īs, >>Silva. >>PY8ELO >> >>Dave Wrote: >> >>I'd like to build a replica of the B&W 65 or 90 folded dipole antenna. >> >>I know that there are a lot of arguments against this type of antenna >>but for the convienience, I would like to have one anyway. >> >>$220 - $250 seems a bit steep to buy one. >> >>I have read L.B. Cebik's article on Terminated Wideband Dipoles, >>http://www.cebik.com/wbfd.html but have been unable to find a source >>for the 800-900 ohm resistor or plans for a suitable 16:1 balun. >> >>The only resistors of that value and wattage I have found are >>wirewounds which I assume are not suitable because they are inductive. >> >>For an antenna to handle legal limit 1500 watts is it necessary for >>the terminating resistor to be 1500 watts? It seems to me that you >>would hope that the majority of the power would be dissappated by the >>wire and not the resistor. >> >>Does anyone know where I can find a plan for the balun (or a resonably >>priced commercially made one)? How about the resistor? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Dave >> >> >> > > > Article: 219344 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John, N9JG" References: Subject: Re: Building small 80 meter loop antenna Message-ID: <08Uef.337219$084.285796@attbi_s22> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 05:00:44 GMT Thanks for the suggestion, and yes I have the book. "Bob Miller" wrote in message news:hdonn112unuvji83d35uk2ic9hagkrvlhu@4ax.com... > > That loop is detailed in chapter 5 of the ARRL Antenna Book (19th > ed.). Might be worth getting the book if you're going to build it. > > bob > k5qwg > > Article: 219345 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: Nature of "ground" beneath my house? Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:21:26 -0800 Message-ID: <11no4qp4romsvb7@corp.supernews.com> References: mcalhoun@ksu.edu wrote: > What kind of "ground" should I use to EZNEC-model a flat-top dipole antenna > of which one side will be about 7 feet above and parallel to the peak of > my house roof and the other half will be about 30 feet above the yard. > > My house is a story-and-a-half (the usual attic was a dormitory for my > long-gone kids) over a full basement (which just happens to have both > a Ufer ground in the basement-wall footings and a "ring ground" around > the outside and at the level of the footings). Thus most of one-half > of the antenna will be over the usual Kansas soil (about a foot of fertile > stuff above many feet of more clay-like stuff) while the other half will > be above the roof above the attic/dormitory above the ground floor above > the basement above the footings. > > So will this be a "good", "bad", "average", or ??? ground for EZNEC- > modeling purposes? The short answer is that it doesn't matter. I do recommend using "Real, High Accuracy" ground for all models unless it's necessary to make a zero-resistance connection to the ground plane. When using "high accuracy" ground, the ground quality is used by the program for two purposes: 1. To determine the antenna impedance and currents, and 2. To calculate the pattern, which depends on ground reflections. The former doesn't make much difference if the antenna is more than about 0.1 or 0.2 wavelength high. The latter takes place (except for very high angle signals) well beyond your house or other nearby objects, and for horizontally polarized antennas doesn't make much difference anyway (again except for high angle signals). Whatever effect your house will have on the antenna, you won't be able to effectively model it. It will be chiefly due to the conductors in the house -- wiring, pipes, rain gutters, etc. -- and it's just about impossible to know enough about them to model them decently. Fortunately, they're unlikely to have much of an effect unless something happens to be nearly self-resonant. If that happens, you're likely to know about it via other means (e.g., TVI or other RFI, "hot" conductors or appliances when transmitting, or even lights that go on when you transmit), and will be wanting to spoil the resonance rather than simply modeling the offending conductor. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 219346 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: support vertical with PVC? Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:27:53 -0800 Message-ID: <11no56sqt026546@corp.supernews.com> References: <1132177125.071506.97410@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> eternalsquire@comcast.net wrote: > All, > > Do any of you see a problem in RF tuning or resonance with supporting a > vertical pipe radiator by a vertical pipe base, seperated by a PVC > coupler so that the base can be part of the ground system? No. I have a four-square array in which each element is a quarter wavelength at 40 meters, 1-1/4" diameter at the bottom, and clamped to an 8 foot galvanized steel chain link fence line pole driven 4 feet into the ground. The antenna and 4 feet of protruding post are spaced 1/4" by slices of thick wall PVC conduit, and clamped with muffler clamps. The protruding pipe is connected to the ground system. They've been up for about 20 years. The only effect of the pipe on 40 is to add a bit of shunt C at the base of the antenna which lowers the self-resonant frequency a bit. The effect is considerably more pronounced at higher frequencies where the antenna base impedance is higher. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Article: 219347 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: richardharrison@webtv.net (Richard Harrison) Subject: Re: Loop Antennas Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:25:14 -0600 Message-ID: <8495-437C3E6A-308@storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net> References: Al, VE7AGW wrote: "I have used a similar method on the west coast of Vancouver Island with weighted milk jugs, instead of tying off the support line for two of the four support lines." I just heard Ray Price sing "For the Good Times" on KKYX, San Antonio, 680 KHz. The station is 200 miles from here. The sntenna is the built-in loopstick in the radio. I listen 24 hours, all country msic, all the time for more thann 32 years. Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI Article: 219348 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Subject: Emoto Rotators Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:04:06 +1100 Message-ID: <437c5597$0$9984$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au> Hi All, I have been offered an unused Emoto 1103 (or 1102 - not sure as no external markings) at what appears to be a very reasonable price. The only problem is that it does not come with a control unit. I have searched the 'net high and low for information but to no avail. So - my choices seem to be: 1. Acquire a circuit of the rotator so that I may make my own control unit. 2. Purchase a suitable control unit (the local agent in Australia is unable to supply same) 3.Sell the rotator on behalf of the original vendor (a friend, who would be more than happy for me to do so) 4.Forget the whole thing and stick to bits of wire stuck up the nearest tree :) Any help or advice will treated with the respect it deserves! Cheers Alan VK2ADB Article: 219349 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John, N9JG" References: Subject: Re: Building small 80 meter loop antenna Message-ID: <9v%ef.553131$_o.310056@attbi_s71> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 13:23:17 GMT It seems to me that it's a lot easier, from a mechanical standpoint, to use a simple gamma feed (without a capacitor) at the bottom of the loop. This is a one band antenna, so finding an optimum match should not be that difficult. If I feed the loop at the bottom with a gamma match, then symmetry requires the capacitor to be at the top of the loop. However, if using a second one-fifth sized loop as the feed loop allows me to mount the capacitor at the bottom, then this type of design might become attractive. It is not clear to me how easy it would be to keep the relative positions of the two loops fixed. "Richard Clark" wrote in message news:jo7on15ii5r1e2n88cdhijpvlnvq1c89od@4ax.com... > On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:33:51 GMT, "John.Gotwals" > wrote: >> resonated by a variable capacitor in series with the top pipe section. > > Hi John, > > The bottom would seem to be far more accessible and you should loop > feed the entire antenna (a loop inside the loop, that is) - Reg has > many times pointed out this matter of simplicity solves many > headaches. > > 73's > Richard Clark, KB7QHC Article: 219350 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Bob Miller Subject: Re: Hi-Fi tuner aerial connection query. Message-ID: References: <1132062816.151387.236660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1132236344.130175.134390@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:57:10 GMT On 17 Nov 2005 06:05:44 -0800, JohnEllicottington@lycos.co.uk wrote: >Bob Miller wrote: >> On 15 Nov 2005 05:53:36 -0800, JohnEllicottington@lycos.co.uk wrote: >> >> >Hi >> >I would like to connect my hi-fi's tuner to my TV's communial aerial >> >socket on the wall with the aid of some sort of coaxial splitter, is >> >this possible? On the rear of the hi-fi are the aerial connectors which >> >appear to accept strands of exposed wire by pressing and releasing a >> >small lever. The five connections are split between 300ohm, 75ohm and >> >AM. Whats the best way to get a decent reception from the tuner? >> >Thanks for any advice. >> >Johno >> >> Do you have Radio Shacks in the UK? I'd just go to them or someone >> similar, and let them provide you with a splitter and the appropos >> cables. (Enter "splitter" at the RS site and it comes up with 35 >> matches.) >> >> bob >> k5qwg > >Thanks for the input so far. Maplins is a similar store in the UK to >Radio Shacks. So just to confirm, I have a two stranded aerial wire. >One end of the aerial wire I am going to connect the two stands to the >tuners 75ohm aerial sockets. What do I do with the two strands of wire >at the other end of the aerial wire? Connect to the splitter. The easiest thing would be to draw a diagram of what you have, take it to Maplins, and they can pick out a splitter that will work, along with any cables or plug adaptors you might need. It's sorta hard to describe all this in text :-) Bob k5qwg >As I have said I am a complete >novice here but from this response this probably does not need >repeating. Johno Article: 219351 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: tclay@qmc.ph.msstate.edu Subject: Re: 1/4 vertical antenna height Date: 17 Nov 2005 09:15:25 -0600 Message-ID: <87zmo3qp9u.fsf@qmc.ph.msstate.edu> References: <1131755996.202107.98090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <11nc9k5k5cqsu0e@corp.supernews.com> <1132188150.526483.44450@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> >Looks like I have an opportunity to purchase a Butternut HF6VX 80-10 >vertical with the CPK counterpoise for maybe $340 for the whole thing. >Seem like a reasonable thing to do? Decent antenna? Otherwise I have >my 80 meter full wave loop at about 50 feet. I'm assuming the vertical >would outperform the loop for DX on 75 and 40 meter bands. If it is a used antenna, that seems overpriced. You can buy a new one for less than that (without the CPK). You can easily make your own radials for much cheaper. I've used HF6V's at several qth's. It's a good antenna on 40 if you have enough radials. On 80 it's not that great. But it will be useful in addition to the loop. Tor N4OGW Article: 219352 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Mike Subject: Re: Plans for B&W BWD-65 & BWD-90 Folded Dipole Balun & Terminating References: Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:50:37 GMT If you were to make the load from maybe ten 8.2k 10-20w wire wound resistors, is the overall inductance really a problem after you parallel a bunch of them? Mike py8elo wrote: > Hi Dave, > I believe the resistor should not be inductive and it should have at > least 30% of the transmission power therefore, for 1500 Watts it should > be of at least 500 Watts. > I build the balun for this antenna (andthe antenna) but I believe in > your country is not difficult to acquire it. > I hope it can help you. > VY 73īs, > Silva. > PY8ELO > > Dave Wrote: > >>I'd like to build a replica of the B&W 65 or 90 folded dipole antenna. >> >>I know that there are a lot of arguments against this type of antenna >>but for the convienience, I would like to have one anyway. >> >>$220 - $250 seems a bit steep to buy one. >> >>I have read L.B. Cebik's article on Terminated Wideband Dipoles, >>http://www.cebik.com/wbfd.html but have been unable to find a source >>for the 800-900 ohm resistor or plans for a suitable 16:1 balun. >> >>The only resistors of that value and wattage I have found are >>wirewounds which I assume are not suitable because they are inductive. >> >>For an antenna to handle legal limit 1500 watts is it necessary for >>the terminating resistor to be 1500 watts? It seems to me that you >>would hope that the majority of the power would be dissappated by the >>wire and not the resistor. >> >>Does anyone know where I can find a plan for the balun (or a resonably >>priced commercially made one)? How about the resistor? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Dave > > > Article: 219353 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Caveat Lector" Subject: Interesting HF antenna design Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:30:39 -0800 At URL: http://home.tiscali.ch/hb9abx/ant--abx-e.htm -- CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be ! Article: 219354 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: AB2RC Subject: Re: 900MHz antenna at sea surface References: <1130962168.655457.263840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <10021-436A3544-176@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net> <1131039043.785167.82020@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:40:02 GMT On 2005-11-03, Steve Nosko wrote: > > 2- Sea action means an omni gain antenna is contraindicated (not a good > idea) because there will be larger variations in signal strength as it bobs > around. This is because this "gain" is obtained by compressing the > radiation pattern more toward the horizontal and as the "bouy" rocks, you True --- but I would go with the omni directional anyway, for the same reasons that you mentioned. Sea action will move the antenna about in the xy plane as well as up and down. There is more than simple up and down bobbing going on here. There would be no guarantee that the forward lobe of a directional antenna would be pointing towards the receiving antenna. -- Alex/AB2RC Article: 219355 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John, N9JG" References: Subject: Re: Interesting HF antenna design Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:30:25 GMT Great picture. What happens when the guy buys gas and drives under the overhang at the filling station? "Caveat Lector" wrote in message news:ke2ff.173$qw.10@fed1read07... > At URL: > http://home.tiscali.ch/hb9abx/ant--abx-e.htm > Article: 219356 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Caveat Lector" References: Subject: Re: Interesting HF antenna design Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:46:40 -0800 "John, N9JG" wrote in message news:R63ff.553426$_o.391582@attbi_s71... > Great picture. What happens when the guy buys gas and drives under the > overhang at the filling station? > > "Caveat Lector" wrote in message > news:ke2ff.173$qw.10@fed1read07... >> At URL: >> http://home.tiscali.ch/hb9abx/ant--abx-e.htm >> > > Maybe he uses a gas can (;-) -- CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be ! Article: 219357 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: clvrmnky Subject: Re: Interesting HF antenna design References: Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 12:57:50 -0500 On 17/11/2005 12:30 PM, John, N9JG wrote: > Great picture. What happens when the guy buys gas and drives under the > overhang at the filling station? > > "Caveat Lector" wrote in message > news:ke2ff.173$qw.10@fed1read07... >> At URL: >> http://home.tiscali.ch/hb9abx/ant--abx-e.htm >> > It's hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like it can be adjusted to lay flat. Whether or not this can be done in a convenient manner is another thing, I guess. Article: 219358 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "John, N9JG" References: Subject: Re: Interesting HF antenna design Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:47:56 GMT Well, I don't care who you are, at least once any normal person is going to forget and drive right up to the pump without remembering to first lower or remove the antenna. "clvrmnky" wrote in message news:yw3ff.3469$43.368@nnrp.ca.mci.com!nnrp1.uunet.ca... [stuff] > It's hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like it can be adjusted to > lay flat. Whether or not this can be done in a convenient manner is > another thing, I guess. Article: 219359 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "CA" References: Subject: Re: Interesting HF antenna design Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:48:03 GMT Or is this antenna story just a way to earn some money? You have to send the guy at least 20 Euros (approx 20 USD) in order to receive (hopefully) the construtional details in March 2006... If it is a true ham project, I don't understand why the details can not be published on a simple web page. At least the outlines. /SM6PXJ "Caveat Lector" skrev i meddelandet news:ke2ff.173$qw.10@fed1read07... > At URL: > http://home.tiscali.ch/hb9abx/ant--abx-e.htm > > -- > CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be ! > > > > > > > Article: 219360 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Not happy new suv antenna References: <1132254478.594949.299550@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:15:38 GMT Gene wrote: > ...she who > must be obeyed, will not allow any non factory holes ! > Any thoughts ? TIA Gene Leave "she who must be obeyed" at the next rest stop? -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219361 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: clvrmnky Subject: Re: Interesting HF antenna design References: Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:55:40 -0500 On 17/11/2005 1:47 PM, John, N9JG wrote: > Well, I don't care who you are, at least once any normal person is going to > forget and drive right up to the pump without remembering to first lower or > remove the antenna. > > "clvrmnky" wrote in message > news:yw3ff.3469$43.368@nnrp.ca.mci.com!nnrp1.uunet.ca... > [stuff] >> It's hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like it can be adjusted to >> lay flat. Whether or not this can be done in a convenient manner is >> another thing, I guess. > > Right. I personally would only use such a rig under special situations (i.e., the thing only goes on for a weekend or something.) Everyday use is asking for trouble. Mobile installations have their own challenges. I'd probably live with the trade-offs and put a big old whip from front bumper to the back. One should be able to use various tricks to electronically lengthen or shorten the whip to tune to the range you want, right? Article: 219362 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Fred W4JLE" Subject: Congats Cecil W5DXP Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:47:12 -0500 Message-ID: <61242$437cfa62$97d56a33$5030@ALLTEL.NET> Nice article in WorldRadio December issue. Article: 219363 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Congats Cecil W5DXP References: <61242$437cfa62$97d56a33$5030@ALLTEL.NET> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:20:19 GMT Fred W4JLE wrote: > Nice article in WorldRadio December issue. > Thanks, part I was in the Oct. issue - Part II hopefully in Jan. -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219364 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "J Tabor" Subject: Geophysical Indices - "at a glance" freeware Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:27:08 -0600 Message-ID: <11nq0u54rbt155@corp.supernews.com> Greetings All, You are invited to download and use the new version of GeoAlert-Extreme Wizard. The default download is known as QSL-ware. Which basically means freeware. The QSL-ware version has no time limit and automatically downloads and displays solar indices in a friendly - at a glance - manner. www.taborsoft.com/gawiz/ Although many will be satisfied with the default version, advanced features are, of course, available when registered. Free 60-day trial also available. Cheers, Jim - KU5S -- email sent to: denews@taborsoft.com is discarded without being seen. Sorry for any inconvenience. Article: 219365 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Caveat Lector" Subject: CC&R BILL HAS BEEN REINTRODUCED INTO CONGRESS - Write ur CONGRESSPERSON NOW Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:32:33 -0800 ATTENTION ALL AMATEUR RADIO OPERATORS DO SOMETHING NOW A CC&R BILL HAS BEEN REINTRODUCED INTO CONGRESS WRITE YOUR CONGRESSPERSON SEE SAMPLES AND TEXT OF THE BILL AT URL: http://www.arrl.org/govrelations/hr3876/ OR CLICK BELOW HR 3876, The Amateur Radio Emergency Communications Consistency Act of 2005 -- CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be ! Article: 219366 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Caveat Lector" References: <4Zmdnak3-PKCiuDeRVn-hQ@web-ster.com> Subject: Re: CC&R BILL HAS BEEN REINTRODUCED INTO CONGRESS - Write ur CONGRESSPERSON NOW Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:10:51 -0800 Came right out of QST >From the ARRL -- CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be ! "Tim Wescott" wrote in message news:4Zmdnak3-PKCiuDeRVn-hQ@web-ster.com... > Caveat Lector wrote: > >> ATTENTION ALL AMATEUR RADIO OPERATORS >> >> DO SOMETHING NOW >> >> A CC&R BILL HAS BEEN REINTRODUCED INTO CONGRESS >> >> WRITE YOUR CONGRESSPERSON >> >> SEE SAMPLES AND TEXT OF THE BILL AT URL: >> >> http://www.arrl.org/govrelations/hr3876/ >> >> OR CLICK BELOW >> >> HR 3876, The Amateur Radio Emergency Communications Consistency Act of >> 2005 >> >> > An obvious fake! Who would believe our congress passing a bill with only > two pages? Bet it has more when it finally gets through. > > Sounds good, though. > > -- > > Tim Wescott > Wescott Design Services > http://www.wescottdesign.com Article: 219367 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Cecil Moore Subject: Re: Not happy new suv antenna References: <1132254478.594949.299550@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1132261394.183332.323510@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <1132271642.707634.68420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 00:50:54 GMT Gene wrote: > Cecil, served with a MSGT Moore, at Keesler AFB, 1963, he was a > ham...??? 73`s Gene There are so many Moore's that I have no idea who I am kin to. I don't look anything like Archie Moore, for instance. Outside of London, England, the city with the most Moore's is Houston. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp Article: 219368 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Joel Kolstad" Subject: Re: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:50:05 -0800 Message-ID: <11nqct8csfr3m16@corp.supernews.com> References: <4p2ef.11227$BZ5.67@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> "amdx" wrote in message news:d198d$437a3b5c$18d64e2f$31782@KNOLOGY.NET... > I lost interest in Art Bell when he interviewed a lady who said, > "I got into the mind of the spider, as he crawled across the wall." I distinctly recall him interviewing a guy who was discussing how, if you just thought about it hard enough, you could be telekinetic and move large boudlers around just like Luke in The Empire Strikes Back. He kept saying something like, "You can't be Jesus, you can't be Satan, but anything else you can be!" :-) Just because Art interviews loons doesn't mean that (1) he's one or (2) his listeners are. It's just entertainment, plain and simple... Article: 219369 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Joel Kolstad" Subject: Re: The C. Crane Co. CCRadio Plus Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:54:48 -0800 Message-ID: <11nqd636kjjuqaf@corp.supernews.com> References: <4p2ef.11227$BZ5.67@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> "Bob Miller" wrote in message news:m2mkn157eh60dtumbivj5aoclj6g1v3hr8@4ax.com... > Wayne's recommended reading list was pretty amazing. Did they really > fake the moon shot in a TV studio? It's kinda humorously ironic that the reason some of these "we faked the moon landing" types are so sure of themselves is because they're so ignorant or just plain downright dumb that they, personally, can't understand all the science required to pull it off. Granted, there probably is no one single person who _does_, but at least most people are savvy enough to recognize that (1) there are people smarter -- much, much smarter! -- than themselves and (2) a bunch of average people with limited skills can, while working in a well-organized effort, achieve extraordinary results that no single human ever could. Article: 219370 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Andrey" Subject: Re: Extend range for a 900 mhz phone Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:39:06 -0800 Message-ID: <11nqffh21mbaub6@corp.supernews.com> References: <1131497691.878969.231670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> If you have luxury of space, you can construct radiator to your cordless phone base station and point it in the direction you need - you will get few dBs and this may be just enough. reflectors in order of increasing efficiency and sophistication: flat surface, corner, parabaloid. wrote in message news:1131497691.878969.231670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Hello, I am a newbie in this area of knowledge, I tried to find an > answer to my question before posting but I could not. I want to have an > extension phone 30 meters in straight line from the base. there are > three walls between the desired point and the base. If I take the > phone that I have with me (uniden, analog) it works but very poorly. I > just need some improvement. I can purchase a 900 mhz dss if this will > solve the problem, also, I can conect the antenna from the base to some > antenna in the roof (both base and desired point are on the top of a > building). Any suggestions? > Article: 219371 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Extend range for a 900 mhz phone Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:23:44 -0600 Message-ID: <11nqlql8kugjf36@corp.supernews.com> References: <1131497691.878969.231670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <11nqffh21mbaub6@corp.supernews.com> Andrey wrote: > If you have luxury of space, you can construct radiator to your cordless > phone base station and point it in the direction you need - you will get few > dBs and this may be just enough. reflectors in order of increasing > efficiency and sophistication: flat surface, corner, parabaloid. > > > wrote in message > news:1131497691.878969.231670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > >>Hello, I am a newbie in this area of knowledge, I tried to find an >>answer to my question before posting but I could not. I want to have an >>extension phone 30 meters in straight line from the base. there are >>three walls between the desired point and the base. If I take the >>phone that I have with me (uniden, analog) it works but very poorly. I >>just need some improvement. I can purchase a 900 mhz dss if this will >>solve the problem, also, I can conect the antenna from the base to some >>antenna in the roof (both base and desired point are on the top of a >>building). Any suggestions? >> > > > Not to rain on your parade but home wireless phones are not permitted to have extended range antennas. They are constructed so as to prevent the addition of larger antennas. When you go looking for a new phone check the range specs. Do not take the numbers as accurate as the advertising department has the biggest say in what is printed on the box and instructions. Look for one of the more expensive phones as they will most likely be more accurate in what they say they will do. Good luck Dave N Article: 219372 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Gene Rodgers" References: Subject: Re: RG-213/U Coax Cable Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 04:39:02 GMT FYI: Texas Towers in Dallas has RG-213/U for $.39 per ft. "AAA RF Products" wrote in message news:CqKef.195$dv.11@fed1read02... > RG-213/U, 50 Ohm, low loss, high power handling, Coax Cable, Made in USA, > meets or exceeds MIL-C-17 specs. > Ideal replacement for RG-8/U. > > 10 to 99 feet $.75/ft > 100 to 999 feet $.66/ft > 1,000 feet $600.00 > > > For your free copy of our new catalog, > > please email sales@AAARFProducts.com > > or see www.aaarfproducts.com > > Article: 219373 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Andrey" Subject: Re: Extend range for a 900 mhz phone Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 06:24:15 -0800 Message-ID: <11nropnf7fkhm5b@corp.supernews.com> References: <1131497691.878969.231670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <11nqffh21mbaub6@corp.supernews.com> <11nqlql8kugjf36@corp.supernews.com> not permitted ... what? I am not suggesting to modify existing antenna structure. not permitted ... by whom? By FCC and other parasitic bodies who monopoloized physical phenomena. bunch of crooks. not permitted ... do you really care? instead you suggest to buy more expensive phone - what a friend you are :-) "David G. Nagel" wrote in message news:11nqlql8kugjf36@corp.supernews.com... > Andrey wrote: > > > If you have luxury of space, you can construct radiator to your cordless > > phone base station and point it in the direction you need - you will get few > > dBs and this may be just enough. reflectors in order of increasing > > efficiency and sophistication: flat surface, corner, parabaloid. > > > > > > wrote in message > > news:1131497691.878969.231670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > > > >>Hello, I am a newbie in this area of knowledge, I tried to find an > >>answer to my question before posting but I could not. I want to have an > >>extension phone 30 meters in straight line from the base. there are > >>three walls between the desired point and the base. If I take the > >>phone that I have with me (uniden, analog) it works but very poorly. I > >>just need some improvement. I can purchase a 900 mhz dss if this will > >>solve the problem, also, I can conect the antenna from the base to some > >>antenna in the roof (both base and desired point are on the top of a > >>building). Any suggestions? > >> > > > > > > > > > Not to rain on your parade but home wireless phones are not permitted to > have extended range antennas. They are constructed so as to prevent the > addition of larger antennas. When you go looking for a new phone check > the range specs. Do not take the numbers as accurate as the advertising > department has the biggest say in what is printed on the box and > instructions. Look for one of the more expensive phones as they will > most likely be more accurate in what they say they will do. Good luck > > Dave N Article: 219374 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Extend range for a 900 mhz phone Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:52:54 -0600 Message-ID: <11ns1neeum6praf@corp.supernews.com> References: <1131497691.878969.231670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <11nqffh21mbaub6@corp.supernews.com> <11nqlql8kugjf36@corp.supernews.com> <11nropnf7fkhm5b@corp.supernews.com> Andrey; That's correct it's not permitted. Besides the antenna's already on the phone are optimal for the frequency. That's correct the FCC is the parasitic body that does not permit modifying the antenna. That's correct I care. That's correct. The more expensive phone, if carefully selected is the better phone. I hope that I am a good friend, not someone who advocates violation of the law. Dave N BTW: If you can work it out a corner reflector would work. Andrey wrote: > not permitted ... what? I am not suggesting to modify existing antenna > structure. > not permitted ... by whom? By FCC and other parasitic bodies who > monopoloized physical phenomena. bunch of crooks. > not permitted ... do you really care? > > instead you suggest to buy more expensive phone - what a friend you are > :-) > > > > > "David G. Nagel" wrote in message > news:11nqlql8kugjf36@corp.supernews.com... > >>Andrey wrote: >> >> >>>If you have luxury of space, you can construct radiator to your cordless >>>phone base station and point it in the direction you need - you will get > > few > >>>dBs and this may be just enough. reflectors in order of increasing >>>efficiency and sophistication: flat surface, corner, parabaloid. >>> >>> >>> wrote in message >>>news:1131497691.878969.231670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >>> >>> >>>>Hello, I am a newbie in this area of knowledge, I tried to find an >>>>answer to my question before posting but I could not. I want to have an >>>>extension phone 30 meters in straight line from the base. there are >>>>three walls between the desired point and the base. If I take the >>>>phone that I have with me (uniden, analog) it works but very poorly. I >>>>just need some improvement. I can purchase a 900 mhz dss if this will >>>>solve the problem, also, I can conect the antenna from the base to some >>>>antenna in the roof (both base and desired point are on the top of a >>>>building). Any suggestions? >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>Not to rain on your parade but home wireless phones are not permitted to >>have extended range antennas. They are constructed so as to prevent the >>addition of larger antennas. When you go looking for a new phone check >>the range specs. Do not take the numbers as accurate as the advertising >>department has the biggest say in what is printed on the box and >>instructions. Look for one of the more expensive phones as they will >>most likely be more accurate in what they say they will do. Good luck >> >>Dave N > > > Article: 219375 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Re: Nature of "ground" beneath my house? Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 19:02:31 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <11no4qp4romsvb7@corp.supernews.com> Many years back I once had a 10m dipole about 8 feet from the house at cast-iron roof-gutter level. The Tx was in an upstairs bedroom. The short coaxial line to the dipole went through a hole in the bedroom wooden window frame. Sunspots were at their best. On completion of the installation, much to my surprise, I worked my very first Australian (in the antipodes >from Birmingham) and completed the log entry in exceptionally neat handwriting. I then went downstairs and reported my conversation with Bill in Adelaide to my XYL. All she had to say was a brief "Your dinner's gone cold.". So much for her deflating enthusiasm! But the most extrordinary thing about the episode was the fact that the bedroom 60-watt light bulb (admittedly a temporary arrangement) came on more strongly when the key was UP and went more dim when the key was DOWN. I was running 100 watts from a Kenwood TS-520. The bedroom light was not being run from the 240-volt power wiring to the TS-520. After years of thinking about it, I have never found an entirely satisfactory explanation. ---- Reg, G4FGQ Article: 219376 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Nature of "ground" beneath my house? Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:39:42 -0600 Message-ID: <11nsf0q8lfpfj1f@corp.supernews.com> References: <11no4qp4romsvb7@corp.supernews.com> Reg Edwards wrote: > Many years back I once had a 10m dipole about 8 feet from the house at > cast-iron roof-gutter level. The Tx was in an upstairs bedroom. The > short coaxial line to the dipole went through a hole in the bedroom > wooden window frame. > > Sunspots were at their best. On completion of the installation, much > to my surprise, I worked my very first Australian (in the antipodes > from Birmingham) and completed the log entry in exceptionally neat > handwriting. > > I then went downstairs and reported my conversation with Bill in > Adelaide to my XYL. All she had to say was a brief "Your dinner's gone > cold.". So much for her deflating enthusiasm! > > But the most extrordinary thing about the episode was the fact that > the bedroom 60-watt light bulb (admittedly a temporary arrangement) > came on more strongly when the key was UP and went more dim when the > key was DOWN. > > I was running 100 watts from a Kenwood TS-520. The bedroom light was > not being run from the 240-volt power wiring to the TS-520. After > years of thinking about it, I have never found an entirely > satisfactory explanation. > ---- > Reg, G4FGQ > > Reg; Reminds me of my first contact using an 11 meter J-pole antenna that I made. It was only about 40 miles using 5 watts input AM. Not much by your achievement but to me at the time I thought it was wonderful. As to you lamp dimming, I do not know what the wiring capacity of you house was but the transmitter was being fed by the same mains drop from the street as the lamp. That is, IMO, the most likely cause of the dimming. Just my guess. Dave WD9BDZ Article: 219377 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Re: feedlines and strange intereactions Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 21:19:29 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <1132157973.945787.48940@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> "Cecil Moore" wrote > That's what antenna modeling programs are for. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cec, You should realise it's a waste of time pointing people towards computer programs which require a 6-weeks full-time training course to understand what its all about. And which they don't possess anyway. Especially when a few sentences of plain English can provide an adequate explanation to the enquirer. ---- Regards, Reg. Article: 219378 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Re: Nature of "ground" beneath my house? Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:24:47 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <11no4qp4romsvb7@corp.supernews.com> <11nsf0q8lfpfj1f@corp.supernews.com> > As to you lamp dimming, I do not know what the wiring capacity of your > house was but the transmitter was being fed by the same mains drop from > the street as the lamp. That is, IMO, the most likely cause of the > dimming. Just my guess. > > Dave WD9BDZ ======================================= Dave, The mains supply from the road was capable of 50 kilowatts without excessive volts drop. For a few years it was used for electric cookers, several 3-bar central heating radiators, etc., without problems. Far more than the TS-520 with an RF power output of 100 watts. There may been something very peculiar with the 60-watt bedroom filament lamp which caused it to cool off when both RF plus 50Hz power currents flowed through it. I didn't try another bulb. There may have been incorrect house wiring such that the only power point in the bedroom, used for the transmitter, was connected, by mistake, to the lighting circuit. But even then, the lighting circuit should have been capable of withstanding the load of the transmitter without much of a voltage drop. Shortly afterwards I moved the shack downstairs into the garage. At the time I never checked house wiring and later on the family sold the house and moved. The new owner was not a radio amateur. ---- Reg, G4FGQ. Article: 219379 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt) Subject: Re: Nature of "ground" beneath my house? Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:03:29 -0000 Message-ID: <11nsne11sc21h65@corp.supernews.com> References: <11nsf0q8lfpfj1f@corp.supernews.com> In article , Reg Edwards wrote: >There may have been incorrect house wiring such that the only power >point in the bedroom, used for the transmitter, was connected, by >mistake, to the lighting circuit. That would be my guess. Here in the US, at least, it's quite common for a single 15- or 20-ampere circuit to be used for both wall outlets, and lighting circuits, in one or more rooms. There's nothing in the electrical code which requires separation of these sorts of loads... and in fact I seem to recall a clause which actually forbids "one outlet per circuit" branches, for some reason. > But even then, the lighting circuit >should have been capable of withstanding the load of the transmitter >without much of a voltage drop. It doesn't take all that much of a drop in voltage to result in a visible change in the brightness of an incandescent-filament light. According to one site I've found, light output is roughly proportional to the voltage raised to a power between 3.1 and 3.4. A 5% drop in voltage would thus result in a decrease in light level of more than 15%, which would be pretty easy to notice. If you were transmitting 100 watts CW key-down, I'd guess that your transmitter was probably drawing at least 300 watts from the mains, and perhaps rather more depending on its design. Add a few more likely or possible elements e.g. a linear power supply which tends to draw most of its current from the mains during the voltage peaks (and thus causes a disproportionate amount of voltage sag on the lines during those peaks), insufficiently-thick house wiring in the walls, and perhaps a slightly loose or corroded connection to one of the outlets or switches or breakers, and I can well believe that keying a 100-watt CW transmitter could cause enough voltage drop to result in visible dimming of the lamp bulb. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! Article: 219380 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna Subject: Re: Congats Cecil W5DXP From: Steveo Date: 18 Nov 2005 23:23:36 GMT Message-ID: <20051118182336.822$c4@newsreader.com> References: <61242$437cfa62$97d56a33$5030@ALLTEL.NET> <1132352652.680305.19990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> N8WWM Doug Adair wrote: > Cecil Moore wrote: > > Fred W4JLE wrote: > > > Nice article in WorldRadio December issue. > > > > > Thanks, part I was in the Oct. issue - > > Part II hopefully in Jan. > > -- > > 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > > hi Cecil, > > how about an article on the sick gay shit you hams crave so > much.........like how you sick fucks select the "young ham of the year" > hehehehhe! > You should go back to your court ordered shrink, n8wwm. Plonk Article: 219381 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Owen Duffy Subject: Re: Nature of "ground" beneath my house? Message-ID: References: <11no4qp4romsvb7@corp.supernews.com> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:22:46 GMT On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 19:02:31 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards" wrote: >I was running 100 watts from a Kenwood TS-520. The bedroom light was >not being run from the 240-volt power wiring to the TS-520. After >years of thinking about it, I have never found an entirely >satisfactory explanation. To add complexit to this puzzle, was your dinner being cold caused to some extent by the apparent drop in mains voltage at the light socket in the shack (bedroom)? Did your light have a phase controlled dimmer (you know, to set the mood)... they not only emitted huge quantities of RF, they were also very susceptible to ingress of RF. It wasn't by chance some other interaction like RF interference with street lighting controllers and the street likes were operating in sympathy with your keying? Perhaps some other on-site high power appliance affected by RF. I had one of the early heaters with a fully solid state thermostat that was susceptible to RFI, and it took a while to work out why when I went into my office sometimes the heater had been running even though it appeared to be "off"... until I associated the effect with recent on-air activity. At my coastal retreat, SSB RF was getting into the irrigation controller recently, causing water hammer in sympathy with speech. There are limitless possibilities! Owen -- Article: 219382 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "David G. Nagel" Subject: Re: Nature of "ground" beneath my house? Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:21:10 -0600 Message-ID: <11nss0dechung5c@corp.supernews.com> References: <11no4qp4romsvb7@corp.supernews.com> <11nsf0q8lfpfj1f@corp.supernews.com> Reg; As I said it was my guess. That's what you get for guessing. It would seem that your house has sufficient capacity to carry a 60 watt light bulb and a 100 watt transmitter. If you ever find out what happened let the group know. Maybe I'll meet you on the air some day. Dave WD9BDZ Reg Edwards wrote: >>As to you lamp dimming, I do not know what the wiring capacity of > > your > >>house was but the transmitter was being fed by the same mains drop > > from > >>the street as the lamp. That is, IMO, the most likely cause of the >>dimming. Just my guess. >> >>Dave WD9BDZ > > > ======================================= > Dave, > > The mains supply from the road was capable of 50 kilowatts without > excessive volts drop. For a few years it was used for electric > cookers, several 3-bar central heating radiators, etc., without > problems. Far more than the TS-520 with an RF power output of 100 > watts. > > There may been something very peculiar with the 60-watt bedroom > filament lamp which caused it to cool off when both RF plus 50Hz power > currents flowed through it. I didn't try another bulb. > > There may have been incorrect house wiring such that the only power > point in the bedroom, used for the transmitter, was connected, by > mistake, to the lighting circuit. But even then, the lighting circuit > should have been capable of withstanding the load of the transmitter > without much of a voltage drop. Shortly afterwards I moved the shack > downstairs into the garage. At the time I never checked house wiring > and later on the family sold the house and moved. The new owner was > not a radio amateur. > ---- > Reg, G4FGQ. > > Article: 219383 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Jim Kelley Subject: Re: Nature of "ground" beneath my house? Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:40:49 -0800 Message-ID: References: <11nsf0q8lfpfj1f@corp.supernews.com> <11nsne11sc21h65@corp.supernews.com> Dave Platt wrote: > > It doesn't take all that much of a drop in voltage to result in a > visible change in the brightness of an incandescent-filament light. > According to one site I've found, light output is roughly proportional > to the voltage raised to a power between 3.1 and 3.4. A 5% drop in > voltage would thus result in a decrease in light level of more than > 15%, which would be pretty easy to notice. > > If you were transmitting 100 watts CW key-down, I'd guess that your > transmitter was probably drawing at least 300 watts from the > mains, and perhaps rather more depending on its design. > > Add a few more likely or possible elements e.g. a linear power supply > which tends to draw most of its current from the mains during the > voltage peaks (and thus causes a disproportionate amount of voltage > sag on the lines during those peaks), insufficiently-thick house > wiring in the walls, and perhaps a slightly loose or corroded > connection to one of the outlets or switches or breakers, and I can > well believe that keying a 100-watt CW transmitter could cause enough > voltage drop to result in visible dimming of the lamp bulb. A friend of mine back in the 70's had me come over to listen to his new stereo. It was a Phase Linear system as I recall. The speaker cabinets had 9 components each in them. We put "Hall of the Mountain King" on the turntable and turned up the level to the point just before it began to distort. The power amp was pretty substantial and I noticed the lights were dimming to the music. I went outside and could see the power meter change speed in time to the music. And this was in an industrial building. That was the loudest home stereo system I ever heard. Probably the best sounding as well. ac6xg Article: 219384 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Roy Lewallen Subject: Re: tv antenna, any simple standards that work? Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:09:07 -0800 Message-ID: <11nsupmqcscv6bf@corp.supernews.com> References: <1132357825.631091.7400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> I recommend that you avoid fancy and expensive antennas that sit on top of the TV and have lots of knobs and switches -- those are nearly 100% useless. Begin with what we call "rabbit ears" -- a couple of telescoping rods in a plastic base which you can adjust in length and position. That should be adequate to get some TV signals in an area where the signals are fairly strong. If you have trouble with "ghosts" (multiple images spaced horizontally), you'll need a directional antenna, outside or in the attic. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Jan wrote: > Got a small tv in Luxembourg, no channels found (trying both SECAM and > PAL). I suppose I need an external antenna. Something cheap will likely > do the job as signals should be good in this area, but are there any > pitfalls to avoid in order to avoid a 100% useless antenna? > Article: 219385 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Frank" References: <1132357825.631091.7400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: tv antenna, any simple standards that work? Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 04:36:37 GMT > Got a small tv in Luxembourg, no channels found (trying both SECAM and > PAL). I suppose I need an external antenna. Something cheap will likely > do the job as signals should be good in this area, but are there any > pitfalls to avoid in order to avoid a 100% useless antenna? I understand that all TV in Europe is on UHF in analog and digital formats. Hope you are not looking on VHF. Frank Article: 219386 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Russ Subject: Re: Congats Cecil W5DXP Message-ID: <4leln1hc7fgskadkmckh74niqpomj6qhbd@4ax.com> References: <61242$437cfa62$97d56a33$5030@ALLTEL.NET> <1132352652.680305.19990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 04:52:12 GMT On 18 Nov 2005 14:24:12 -0800, "moparholic" wrote: > >Cecil Moore wrote: >> Fred W4JLE wrote: >> > Nice article in WorldRadio December issue. >> > >> Thanks, part I was in the Oct. issue - >> Part II hopefully in Jan. >> -- >> 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp > >hi Cecil, > >how about an article on the sick gay shit you hams crave so >much.........like how you sick fucks select the "young ham of the year" >hehehehhe! Now here is somebody who is making mommy and daddy proud, eh? R Article: 219387 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Reg Edwards" Subject: Re: feedlines and strange intereactions Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 07:41:37 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <1132157973.945787.48940@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> "Cecil Moore" wrote > Reg Edwards wrote: > > Cec, You should realise it's a waste of time pointing people towards > > computer programs which require a 6-weeks full-time training course to > > understand what its all about. > > Reg, if I can learn ELNEC in two years, anyone can do it. :-) ==================================== Cec, What is ELNEC? OK, I can guess! Quite truthfully, if you had pointed ME towards EZNEC then I am unable even to download and un-zip it. Acually, I do have a copy. Some years back Roy took pity on me and, without any request from me, very kindly broke the rules and airmailed me a free parcel of 3.25" floppy disks. It took me a week to print out the instruction handbook and another 2 weeks just to read it by which time I had forgotten what the problem was. 'Experts' should realise, from the manner in which questions are written, the predicament some questioners are in and make allowances instead of leaving them to flounder about in a sea of frustration and despondency. N4AST's comments are unworthy. ---- Regards, Reg. Article: 219388 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: Detlef Conradin Subject: Re: tv antenna, any simple standards that work? References: <1132357825.631091.7400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> Date: 19 Nov 2005 11:23:57 GMT Message-ID: <437f0b4d$0$1158$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch> In article , Frank wrote: >> Got a small tv in Luxembourg, no channels found (trying both SECAM and >> PAL). I suppose I need an external antenna. Something cheap will likely >> do the job as signals should be good in this area, but are there any >> pitfalls to avoid in order to avoid a 100% useless antenna? > > I understand that all TV in Europe is on UHF in analog and digital formats. > Hope you are not looking on VHF. This is not true. There are stations on VHF I und VHF III to. Article: 219389 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Earl Needham" Subject: Re: Interesting HF antenna design Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 07:37:42 -0700 Message-ID: <11nue5k3ns2f3e@corp.supernews.com> References: <1132290760.511891.45900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote in message news:1132290760.511891.45900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > Well, I don't care who you are, at least once any normal person is > going to > > forget and drive right up to the pump without remembering to first lower or > > remove the antenna. > > That antenna is a stunted runt compared to mine. > His is 1.5 m tall. Mine is 3.3 m tall in the driving > mode, 4.2 m tall in the parked mode. On mine, the > base of the antenna is on the truck cab at about > 64 inches from ground. Even in the shorter driving > mode, my antenna is over 16 ft tall to the tip. Got a link to a picture of yours? I'd like to see it. I was running a Master Mobile antenna, about 8 feet long, and the base at 9 feet off the ground for a while. You have to know your routes pretty well to do that! 7 3 Earl KD5XB/18Whl -- Earl Needham Clovis, New Mexico USA Article: 219390 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna From: "Asimov" Subject: Re: Nature of "ground" beneath my house? Message-ID: References: Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:05:37 GMT "Jim Kelley" bravely wrote to "All" (18 Nov 05 16:40:49) --- on the heady topic of "Re: Nature of "ground" beneath my house?" JK> From: Jim Kelley JK> Xref: core-easynews rec.radio.amateur.antenna:220191 JK> Dave Platt wrote: > > It doesn't take all that much of a drop in voltage to result in a > visible change in the brightness of an incandescent-filament light. > According to one site I've found, light output is roughly proportional > to the voltage raised to a power between 3.1 and 3.4. A 5% drop in > voltage would thus result in a decrease in light level of more than > 15%, which would be pretty easy to notice. > > If you were transmitting 100 watts CW key-down, I'd guess that your > transmitter was probably drawing at least 300 watts from the > mains, and perhaps rather more depending on its design. > > Add a few more likely or possible elements e.g. a linear power supply > which tends to draw most of its current from the mains during the > voltage peaks (and thus causes a disproportionate amount of voltage > sag on the lines during those peaks), insufficiently-thick house > wiring in the walls, and perhaps a slightly loose or corroded > connection to one of the outlets or switches or breakers, and I can > well believe that keying a 100-watt CW transmitter could cause enough > voltage drop to result in visible dimming of the lamp bulb. JK> A friend of mine back in the 70's had me come over to listen to his JK> new stereo. It was a Phase Linear system as I recall. The speaker JK> cabinets had 9 components each in them. We put "Hall of the Mountain JK> King" on the turntable and turned up the level to the point just JK> before it began to distort. The power amp was pretty substantial and JK> I noticed the lights were dimming to the music. I went outside and JK> could see the power meter change speed in time to the music. And this JK> was in an industrial building. That was the loudest home stereo JK> system I ever heard. Probably the best sounding as well. Hmmm, acoustic suspension speakers gobble up a lot of power to get decent bass. In the 70's a friend was into building stage columns in his bedroom. He had big 120 dB spl drivers in ceiling high large bins and it only took a 100 watt (4x6L6's) amp to drive them beyond ground shaking levels. He would play Tarkus on it, Lucky Man etc. Sound was great too for vinyl. It is amazing how good vinyl sounded back then. A*s*i*m*o*v ... Shave the Whales!