20031202.qrp v03_n122.qrl.20031202 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:03:11 EST From: qrp-l@Lehigh.EDU To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: QRP-L digest 3122 QRP-L Digest 3122 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) [162151] Re: CQ WW QRP record by Garie Halstead K8KFJ 2) [162152] Hustler 6BTV and 17 Meters by "Brent Sutphin WB4X" 3) [162153] FSor Sale LDG Z-11 Autotuner by "Dick Housden, W0NTA" 4) [162154] Re[4]: Special price for K2 by "Oleg V. Borodin" 5) [162155] Re: Non Corrosive RTV by "W. K. Harding" 6) [162156] Re: 40meter vertical with a doublet on top? by "Stuart Rohre" 7) [162157] Just a warm up ! by "Jerry Ford" 8) [162158] Many sources of analog panel meters from importers/ NOS equipment suppliers by "Stuart Rohre" 9) [162159] Re: 40meter vertical with a doublet on top? by "pschweit" 10) [162160] Re: FSor Sale LDG Z-11 Autotuner by "Dick Housden, W0NTA" 11) [162161] FW: Florida QRP by "Thomas Lewis" 12) [162162] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft 13) [162163] Spartan Sprint Results - K7RE by Brian Kassel 14) [162164] FOX: No Pelt from Cruise Ship last Hunt by "Tom Palmer" 15) [162165] ARS Sprinting with the KX1 by "Rod N0RC" 16) [162166] Re: Two-foot shielded patch cords 3.5 mm? by Kenneth Cooperstein 17) [162167] A Tale of Two Callsigns or Spartan Sprint Hi-Jinx by "Ronald W. Evans" 18) [162168] Part source? by "JAKidz" 19) [162169] Re: Many sources of analog panel meters from importers/ NOS equipment suppliers by "Jason Hsu" 20) [162170] Best source for PIC's ???????? by "John Dooley W6ZIP" 21) [162171] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by "Toby Deinhardt" 22) [162172] Michigan QRP Net Tonight by kwike@gdls.com 23) [162173] Re: FS by "N2ICZ" 24) [162174] Re: [Elecraft] ARS Sprinting with the KX1 by "Rod N0RC" 25) [162175] Re: A Tale of Two Callsigns or Spartan Sprint Hi-Jinx by Lee Mairs 26) [162176] Energizer e2 L91 Lithiums @ SAMS CLUB by "Rod N0RC" 27) [162177] OT: FS SW80+ and SW30+ by "Jim Sheldon" 28) [162178] Re: 40meter vertical with a doublet on top? by Gary Slagel 29) [162179] RE: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by "Lyle Johnson" 30) [162180] Another: AZpad, While waiting for the paddle by "E. Roswell" 31) [162181] Elmer 160: A few maintenance items by "John J. McDonough" 32) [162182] Selling a few things... by "Ron Pyle" 33) [162183] Re: Another: AZpad, While waiting for the paddle by Dale Botkin 34) [162184] RE: Another: AZpad, While waiting for the paddle by "Jim Sheldon" 35) [162185] RE: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by "Charles Mabbott" 36) [162186] Revised FOX Log -- W0PWE Hunt 9 by "Aartec" 37) [162187] RE: FS TT 509 Argonaut Station, Price Reduced by "Ronnie Zoerb" 38) [162188] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft 39) [162189] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft 40) [162190] Re: Interesting CW Catch..... by "Mike Boatright" 41) [162191] Re: 40meter vertical with a doublet on top? by Bruce Muscolino 42) [162192] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by Bruce Muscolino 43) [162193] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by "Doug Hendricks" 44) [162194] [Elmer160] PICkit 1 from Microchip by Chuck Adams 45) [162195] Re: Elmer 160: A few maintenance items by "John J. McDonough" 46) [162196] "ET phone home" ? by "Armin Hachmer" 47) [162197] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by "Mike Yetsko" 48) [162198] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by "Mike Yetsko" 49) [162199] OT: Electronics learning lab? by ARDUJENSKI@aol.com 50) [162200] RE: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by "Lyle Johnson" 51) [162201] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by "Toby Deinhardt" 52) [162202] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by "Joseph Trombino Jr" 53) [162203] RE: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by "Hare,Ed, W1RFI" 54) [162204] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by "Bill Rowlett" 55) [162205] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by M Taylor 56) [162206] Re: "ET phone home" ? by Peter Burbank 57) [162207] Re: Another: AZpad, While waiting for the paddle by "Bill Linn" 58) [162208] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by "George, W5YR" 59) [162209] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by Howard Oakley 60) [162210] Re: Non Corrosive RTV by "Stuart Rohre" 61) [162211] Re: "ET phone home" ? by "DTX" 62) [162212] Re: Two-foot shielded patch cords 3.5 mm? by "Stuart Rohre" 63) [162213] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page by "Paul, VE1DY" 64) [162214] Re: 40meter vertical with a doublet on top? by "Stuart Rohre" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:08:08 -0800 (PST) From: Garie Halstead K8KFJ To: Bill Kelsey Cc: Low Power radio discussion Subject: [162151] Re: CQ WW QRP record Message-ID: <20031202000808.14192.qmail@web60305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Bill Kelsey - N8ET - Kanga US wrote: > According to the CQ WW web page ( www.cqww.com ) the QRP > single op all band record is 1,731, 450 set in the year 2000 by K3OO. > > He had 1299 qso's 114 zones, and 371 countries. That was a supurb > year for the contest at the peak of the sunspot cycle. Tough to beat > > three years down the slope of the cycle! Yes, cycle peak is quite an advantage. Oh well, if he didn't before, I bet he knows who N8ET is now. HI 72, Gary -K8KFJ- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:20:01 -0500 From: "Brent Sutphin WB4X" To: Subject: [162152] Hustler 6BTV and 17 Meters Message-ID: <002b01c3b86a$06d76750$9e6d1f18@BandE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I completed the modification I mentioned in an earlier post. It involved adding a parallel wire cut to 1/4 wave on 17 meters. I have the wire spaced out from the 6BTV at about 6 inches. So far everything looks good. SWR on 17 is 1.3-1 and my first QSO was a KP2 with 599 report. I did have some interaction on 10 and 15 meters. The SWR on those two bands did increase from 1.5-1 to 2.5-1, however I'm sure this will be an easy adjustment. I just ran out of time, only had an hour to work on it. So far so good! Brent WB4X ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:23:46 -0700 From: "Dick Housden, W0NTA" To: Subject: [162153] FSor Sale LDG Z-11 Autotuner Message-ID: <04c101c3b86a$8d165100$0bc40918@yourtarbvp550m> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This LDG Z-11 auto tuner is in like new condition both cosmetically and electronically. All functions works very well. It has version 1.5 firmware which is the latest listed on the LDG website. I have provided several clear images to give you a good look at this tuner (images are of the actual tuner) on my website at: http://home.comcast.net/~housden/LDGZ11.htm. It comes with the original box and assembly/operating manual. Please email with any questions. I try to answer all emails in a very short period of time. Thanks. 72, Dick, W0NTA Greeley, CO ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 04:00:55 +0300 From: "Oleg V. Borodin" To: Lisa Jones - Elecraft Sales , QRP-L Subject: [162154] Re[4]: Special price for K2 Message-ID: <10729024027.20031202040055@lipetsk.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear OM Lisa! Dear QRP Friends! LJES> Oleg, LJES> SInce my last email, we have had more interest in helping you get your K2. ' LJES> I will try to work it so you pay only $200- part to Elecraft and part for LJES> the taxes. LJES> Also, I will also see if one of the friends here could send it to you as a LJES> gift. Elecraft cannot as we are a business. If a friend send this to you as LJES> a gift, do you still have to pay taxes? LJES> Lisa I'd like to say VERY-VERY THANKS for all kind Amateurs who help me to purchase this good transceiver K2! My Childs are never forgot your kind and we will be asked God for your well-being and health! Thanks for ALL!!! Looking for RU3QRP very soon! Wish you all the best! 72! de RV3GM Oleg V. Borodin Chairman of RU-QRP Club http://ruqrp.narod.ru === In QRP We Trust! === ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:14:54 -0500 From: "W. K. Harding" To: "Ed Tanton" , "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [162155] Re: Non Corrosive RTV Message-ID: <410-2200312221145431@ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII It's maybe not the least expensive, but, an excellent RTV product that is safe for electronic components is sold by Loctite and is available from the major distributors. Bill - K4AHK > [Original Message] > From: Ed Tanton > To: Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion > Date: 11/29/2003 10:28:31 PM > Subject: Re: Non Corrosive RTV > > Thanks Terry. There are two useable methods for this: 1) GOOP. Available at > Home Depot, etc. It is solvent-cured (as opposed to the water-cures like > 'regular' Silastic) and therefore non-corrosive. It is stiffer and > therefore less flexible than true RTV-like materials. 2) 'REAL' RTV: there > is an "ELECTRONIC GRADE" RTV available at your local auto-parts store made > by Permatex. There are several kinds marketed by Permatex, so be certain > you get the right one. The "ELECTRONIC GRADE" may be in the 'fine print'-I > forget. But it is GREAT, and not as expensive as the stuff marketed at > Newark and Allied-which is the original stuff. The Permatex works just > fine, and is legitimately a non-corrosive RTV compound. > > Please let me know how it works out for you-naturally that's great to hear!!! > > At 12:21 PM 11/29/2003, Terry Fletcher wrote: > > >Hello Ed, N4XY > > > >Nice latching relay article in the Fall QRP-Q. You mentioned a non > >corrosive rtv sealant. It must be a type that doesn't incorporate acetic > >acid ( I think that's its catalyst.). Do you have a favorite brand name > >of the stuff? All I've been able to find at our local hardware store > >smells acidic and I think it's probably not the non-corrosive kind. > > > >Thanx for any info, es 72/3 Terry, WA ITP > > > > > > 73 Ed Tanton N4XY > > Ed Tanton N4XY > 189 Pioneer Trail > Marietta, GA 30068-3466 > > website: http://www.n4xy.com > > All emails & checked by > Norton AntiVirus with AutoProtect > > LM: ARRL QCWA AMSAT & INDEXA; > SEDXC NCDXA GACW QRP-ARCI > OK-QRP QRP-L #758 K2 (FT) #00057 > > -------------------------------------------------- > "He that gives up a little liberty to gain > temporary security will lose both and > deserve neither". > --Benjamin Franklin > > "Suppose you were an idiot ... > and suppose you were a member of > Congress... but I repeat myself." > --Mark Twain > -------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:19:33 -0600 From: "Stuart Rohre" To: "Gary Slagel" , Subject: [162156] Re: 40meter vertical with a doublet on top? Message-ID: <000301c3b872$579c9d10$4e100a0a@rohredt2000> Gary, Run the feeder inside a large diameter pipe, like irrigation pipe used for the vertical. Advantages, shields the 450 ohm line from vertical interaction. Fat pipe makes the vertical shorter for the 40m band. The idea is same as shielded twin lead. I would shunt feed the vertical, so its outer surface can be earth grounded. Use a gamma match or shunt feed wire. See the Capt. Lee book on Vertical Antennas, (CQ Publishing Co.) Or Bill Orr Antenna Book. 72, Stuart K5KVH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:45:13 -0600 From: "Jerry Ford" To: "qrp-l" , "FPigs" Subject: [162157] Just a warm up ! Message-ID: <001401c3b86d$8c347520$4a78da0c@mchsi.com> Anybody want to get in a little warm up before the sprint starts?? Stop by 7.044 and give me a workout. I'll be there most of the night and looking for those piggie numbers. Don't worry if you don't have a piggie number. Stop by anyway and after you've taken a minute to say howdy, jump over to the www.fpqrp.com web site, go to the bottom of the page, fill out the short little app and get you a piggie number. Come on and join the fun !! C U on the air: 72 and oo Jerry N0JRN FP # 546, 4SQRP, ARS # 923, ARCI # 11049, ARRL, Springfield, Mo. MP + #8 http://home.mchsi.com/~n0jrn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:49:51 -0600 From: "Stuart Rohre" To: Subject: [162158] Many sources of analog panel meters from importers/ NOS equipment suppliers Message-ID: <000b01c3b876$93666980$4e100a0a@rohredt2000> A bit of looking using Google and "analog meters" found many styles of analog panel meters and indicators from single small meters for rectangular cut out of a panel to dual analog meters for wider cutout mounting. A minimum order from one China manufacturer is 500 meters, packed 100 to a box. Price of course depends on range, markings and accuracy. But someone offering a kit or parts supply for QRPers should be able to get meters. I could have bought dozens last year at one swap meet for less than $1 each, but had no immediate interest. I see single quantity small rectangular meters in surplus catalogs for about $4 or less each. Good luck on the swr meter project. However, one would go far to beat the low cost of the Ten Tec power and swr meter kit. I think they were about $59 for up to 200 watt range. With dual range switching, the lower range can be calibrated by internal pot for 2 watts with useable reading at 0.5 watt on that scale. It has HF and VHF sensors, for a plus in this price range, and Steel cabinet for shielding. -Stuart K5 KVH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:06:41 -0600 From: "pschweit" To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [162159] Re: 40meter vertical with a doublet on top? Message-ID: <001b01c3b878$ef80fc60$32e6add1@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One other direction of thought on this topic. if you currently have a dipole cut for 20 meters with 40 feet of feedline. Try shorting the feedline at the feedpoint, and tune it as a long wire. it should tune on 40. If the feedline is more or less vertical the radiation pattern is good to excellent. de rob K0CD ----- Original Message ----- From: Stuart Rohre To: Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 7:19 PM Subject: Re: 40meter vertical with a doublet on top? > Gary, > Run the feeder inside a large diameter pipe, like irrigation pipe used for > the vertical. > > Advantages, shields the 450 ohm line from vertical interaction. Fat pipe > makes the vertical shorter for the 40m band. > > The idea is same as shielded twin lead. I would shunt feed the vertical, > so its outer surface can be earth grounded. Use a gamma match or shunt > feed wire. See the Capt. Lee book on Vertical Antennas, (CQ Publishing Co.) > Or Bill Orr Antenna Book. > 72, > Stuart > K5KVH > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:10:44 -0700 From: "Dick Housden, W0NTA" To: Subject: [162160] Re: FSor Sale LDG Z-11 Autotuner Message-ID: <04fd01c3b879$7e91bde0$0bc40918@yourtarbvp550m> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a version 1.6 which adds memories to the Z-11. Mine is version 1.5 without the memory feature. Price is $125.00 shipped lower 48. Thanks. Dick, W0NTA Greeley, CO ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:35:51 -0500 From: "Thomas Lewis" To: qrp-l@Lehigh.EDU Subject: [162161] FW: Florida QRP Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm posting this to QRP-l just in case we are missing anyone or there may be more interest. The QRPers in Florida are attempting to get together at the Tampa Bay Hamfest this weekend. Tom K4THL >From: "Paul Womble" >To: "'Thomas Lewis'" >Subject: RE: Re: Florida QRP >Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:26:46 -0500 > >Hi Tom, > >That Holiday Inn is just down the road from me. Easy trip to the >hamfest from there. > >W1RFI mentioned trying breakfast on Sunday morning. I'm going to sort >of plan on that and confirm with Ed either Friday night or Saturday. He >won't know his agenda for sure until he get's here. > >Paul K4FB > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Thomas Lewis [mailto:thomas_h_lewis@msn.com] > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 9:25 PM > > To: thenels@go.com; w1rfi@arrl.org; pwomble@earthlink.net; > > lee.boulineau@attws.com; preacher102677@juno.com; > > n4bp@bellsouth.net; puntrad@usa.net; ad4ih@arrl.net; w2xn@netzero.com > > Cc: m.byrd10@verizon.net; ku4yp@earthlink.net; > > n4lgh@waveguide.us; armin@muskoka.com; K4BYF@aol.com; > > mikenever@earthlink.net; macnohere@fpqrp.com > > Subject: Re: Re: Florida QRP > > > > > > Hey Gang: > > > > I've been reading the posts and I'm ready. Just made a > > reservation at the > > Holiday Inn Express ($67) just south of the Convention Center > > at I75 & Rt. > > 64. Not many rooms available in the area though. The Days > > Inn has some at > > $51. I chose the Holiday Inn to get double bonus points. > > > > So now my schedule is totally flexible.. Sat afternoon, > > evening, or Sun. I > > hope we can all figure out how to get together. > > > > Anyone interested in sharing a ride? I'm in Lantana. > > Planned on leaving > > Sat AM and spending most of the day at the Hamfest. Probably > > back to the > > show on Sun AM and getting home before dark. But, I'm very flexible. > > > > Hope to see you all there. > > > > Tom > > K4THL > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > online games and music with a high-speed Internet connection! > > Prices start > > at less than $1 a day average. https://broadband.msn.com > > (Prices may vary > > by service area.) > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Say goodbye to busy signals and slow downloads with a high-speed Internet connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:32:10 -0800 From: Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft To: Elecraft List , QRP-L , GQRP Subject: [162162] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: <3FCC07BA.4050103@elecraft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've just added the ARRL review test numbers for the Ten-Tec Orion to the rig performance comparison page at: http://www.elecraft.com/K2_perf.htm 73, Eric WA6HHQ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:28:22 -0700 From: Brian Kassel To: qrp-l@Lehigh.EDU Subject: [162163] Spartan Sprint Results - K7RE Message-ID: <3FCC14E6.7030006@arrl.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wound up with 63 QSO's 4 of which were on 80M. Twenty was closed up tight here at the very start of the event, so I went to 40. Conditions were hard to adjust to after the spectacular conditions encountered this last weekend for the CQ WW DX. I should have gone to 80 sooner than I did, lot's of signals. Still, working 29 states and 1 province is pretty neat in 2 hours. I didn't break out the light weight rig, just wanted to get on and give out some QSO's to those who did, great fun as always Brian K7RE Western SD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:36:33 -0500 From: "Tom Palmer" To: "QRP-L" Subject: [162164] FOX: No Pelt from Cruise Ship last Hunt Message-ID: <00ab01c3b88d$e31e0200$4f3b0843@swfla.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With cooperation from Communications Officer John Tomlinson, the Captain of our cruise ship "Sun Princess" let me install my 40 meter mono-dipole at the ship's top deck during last week's FOXhunt. Ship was steaming NE from Isle de Margarita (near Venezeula) toward Barbados. Top deck was windy and band was noisy. Heard only a few hounds on 7.045 around 0330, but never heard either FOX. Heard 1 CW op from AZ, 1 from Iowa, 1 from PA., 3 from Texas and 4 from Indiana. Missed both pelts, but not for lack of trying. Tom, N1TP Naples, Florida ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:30:59 -0700 From: "Rod N0RC" To: "qrp-l" , Subject: [162165] ARS Sprinting with the KX1 Message-ID: <003d01c3b895$78bdac00$6401a8c0@bigdog> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, I had the good fortune to build a KX1 for another individual. Had the even better fortune when I was permitted to use it in the DEC ARS Sprint. I managed 18 QSOs and 13 SPCs. I worked only 40m using my attic dipole. The KX1 was powered by a set of Energizer Lithium batteries and was putting out about 1.5W. This particular KX1 was fully equipped, 30m module, KXAT1 ANT tuner and KXPD1 paddle. With the batteries and a set of Kenwood HS-6 headphones, the weight of this set up was just 1 pound!! Given my poor antenna system I was not expecting much from 1.5W, but conditions were decent and the other OPS had good ears. :-) I found the passband a little wide even, with the BW control set to the midband (or slightly less) position, but for a casual event like the ARS Sprint this was not a problem. There was enough selectivity to pick out stations, strong and weak, across the band. For most of the contest (80% or so of the 2 hours) I called CQ, and used the RIT function to scan +/- of my TX Freq. The KX1 announces RIT with a small flashing LED decimal point, this takes a little getting used to. I'm spoiled by rigs like the K2 or my 746pro that displays both frequencies in various ways when RIT is on. At one point I QSYed, or so I thought, but with RIT on, I only changed the RX freq. So I'm not sure how far apart my TX/RX freq. pair was before I realized the error, might have missed a QSO or two. Again this is a minor point, I had less than two hours of "cockpit" time at this point. Most surprising was the BATT life. I started the sprint with 9-10 volts showing on the display. At the end of the two hours the 6 AA BATTs read 8.7 volts in RX. At no time during the event, during XMT, did the voltage drop below 8.1 Vdc. This is significant, recall I was calling CQ, frequently, most of the time. These Lithium batteries are the way to go when longevity is an issue. More over they are extremely light weight. That said, I do wish the KX1 could hold 8 BATTS. With Lithium's the supply would be 12 Volts, and from my tests, 3+ watts of output power would be possible. 8 AA Batts would also make NiMH batts a bit more practical. 8 NiMH batts would provide 9+ Vdc, and be rechargeable. I tried 6 NiMH batts in the KX1 and got ~1W output on all three bands. Marginal for compromise antennas. Building the KX1 was easy, the instructions were clear, and detailed. Even the most novice builder should be able to complete the KX1 with little difficulty. The KX1 is a fun rig to build and use--if you need/want a light weight multi-bander to fit into your operating activities, be sure you check it out. As for me, this KX1 is off to it's proper owner tomorrow. You see the ARS Sprint was the "final inspection/test" for this unit--it passed FB with flying colors. 73, Rod N0RC **Happy Holidays** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 00:41:43 -0500 From: Kenneth Cooperstein To: qrp-l@Lehigh.EDU Subject: [162166] Re: Two-foot shielded patch cords 3.5 mm? Message-ID: <3FCC2617.9070909@att.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Yes. Thank you, Guy kb3ckw. ElectronicsUSA.com has confirmed that his 2 ft cables *are* shielded. The price is certainly right at $2 apiece. Ken KC2JDY ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:54:31 -0600 From: "Ronald W. Evans" To: Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion Subject: [162167] A Tale of Two Callsigns or Spartan Sprint Hi-Jinx Message-ID: <3FCC2917.6070804@ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, it was bound to happen. But on my SECOND Spartan Sprint?!! A royal SNAFU! I worked my first contact tonight, using my previous callsign KD5S. All others I worked, using my CURRENT callsign K5MVR. Oops! Just today, in response to my application, the FCC granted my request and I received my ticket with the "old" callsign I've had most of my life...K5MVR! I had succumbed to the temptation of a vanity callsign when I passed the Amateur Extra exam a couple of years ago and had been merrily using the "new" callsign KD5S ever since. And in contact number 1 tonight, I blithely identified as KD5S! Then...reality hit! That's not my callsign any more! For the remainder of the night I signed K5MVR, more than somewhat embarrassed by my gaffe! So, I guess my question is: Are awards given for using more than one callsign at the same fixed station in a single Sprint?! :-) 72/73, Ron - K5MVR (Feelin' like myself again!) ******************** Ron Evans ************************ K5MVR (ex-KD5S) - Loving the "glow" since 1957 Fort Worth, TX "Where the West Begins" mailto: cosmos41@ix.netcom.com http://www.geocities.com/sweetvengeance ARRL, 4SQRP, ARS #1595, FP #694 http://www.arsqrp.com ********************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:10:53 -0800 From: "JAKidz" To: Subject: [162168] Part source? Message-ID: <000001c3b89b$0b402260$fdb47e40@jmgay> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings: I need a Microtemp TCO (temperature cutoff) or similar in the 110 C range, 15A 125V. I've found on-line distributors that will sell me 1,000 at 0.30 ea. I can't locate the Microtemp or similar with that rating in Mouser or Digikey. Any equivalents or anywhere else I should look? Thanks. John, K7JG. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 01:10:07 -0500 From: "Jason Hsu" To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [162169] Re: Many sources of analog panel meters from importers/ NOS equipment suppliers Message-ID: <008901c3b89a$f17bc280$64923144@aoldsl.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the tips. I don't think analog panel meters are the way to go for space-savings due to the limited availability. I think that LCDs or the small 10-LED bar graph are better ways to save space. I'll build some QROP meters for just a handful of close friends, and I'll stick with the LED displays for now. (LCDs and that little 10-LED bar graph require some precision drilling that I don't know how to do.) Drilling 20 holes for those LEDs may be labor intensive, but it is the tried-and-true way for me, and I'm not interested in mass production. The use of noninterchangeable parts (matched diode pairs and the two resistors with values that vary from unit to unit) makes my design unmanufacturable anyway. Now I understand why MFJ, TenTec, and other manufacturers don't make anything like this. I hope some of you build my QROP meter design. I invite you to make revisions for your own personal preferences. (There's probably a way to convert this to a legal-limit version. I know that a QRPp version is possible, as most homebrew SWR/wattmeters out there are QRP-only designs.) The TenTec SWR/wattmeter kit sounds interesting. I wonder how the VHF capability is provided. (One VHF SWR meter design from an ARRL article uses microstrip lines.) Jason Hsu, AG4DG personal AAAATTTT jasonhsu.com http://www.jasonhsu.com/ee.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Rohre" To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:49 PM Subject: Many sources of analog panel meters from importers/ NOS equipment suppliers > A bit of looking using Google and "analog meters" found many styles of > analog panel meters and indicators from single small meters for rectangular > cut out of a panel to dual analog meters for wider cutout mounting. > > A minimum order from one China manufacturer is 500 meters, packed 100 to a > box. > Price of course depends on range, markings and accuracy. > > But someone offering a kit or parts supply for QRPers should be able to get > meters. > I could have bought dozens last year at one swap meet for less than $1 each, > but had no immediate interest. > > I see single quantity small rectangular meters in surplus catalogs for about > $4 or less each. > Good luck on the swr meter project. However, one would go far to beat the > low cost of the Ten Tec power and swr meter kit. I think they were about > $59 for up to 200 watt range. With dual range switching, the lower range > can be calibrated by internal pot for 2 watts with useable reading at 0.5 > watt on that scale. It has HF and VHF sensors, for a plus in this price > range, and Steel cabinet for shielding. > -Stuart > K5 KVH > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:14:21 -0800 From: "John Dooley W6ZIP" To: qrp-l@Lehigh.EDU Subject: [162170] Best source for PIC's ???????? Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Anyone know a good source for PIC12F629, PIC12F675, PIC16F630 and PIC16F676 s ????? I ve found a great kit offered by Digikey for programming them, it s made by Microchip Technology and includes several software packages and tutorials. The PICkit 1 FLASH Starter Kit is a low-cost development kit with an easy to use interface for programming Microchip's 8/14-pin FLASH family of microcontrollers. This starter kit is designed to help the user get up to speed quickly using PIC microcontrollers. Just wanted to que the list and ask for a cheap supplier. The kit is Digikey part # DV164101-ND and sells for $36.00 US without tax or shipping. Thanks for any direction from all list members, John W6ZIP Victorville, Ca. John W6ZIP Victorville, Ca. QRP-l #2402 ARS #712 FISTS #9371 FPQRP #645 _________________________________________________________________ >From the hottest toys to tips on keeping fit this winter, you ll find a range of helpful holiday info here. http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:30:18 +0100 From: "Toby Deinhardt" To: "Elecraft List" , "QRP-L" Subject: [162171] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: <004c01c3b89d$c43093c0$0300a8c0@tobyWinXP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a none member of the ARRL I can't read the review, so I do not why some of the numbers on the Elecraft and TenTec sites are so different. I get the feeling that one or both companies use a marketing filter worth several dBs ... ;-) I've built two K2s - they work mostly very well - I built them myself - I'm happy - never seen or tried an Orion. vy 73 de toby ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:08:39 -0500 From: kwike@gdls.com To: qrp-l@Lehigh.EDU Subject: [162172] Michigan QRP Net Tonight Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We had good conditions last week with eight check-ins from four states. S R K8CV 599 599 ROYAL OAK MI WALT W8IQB 559 BRISTOL MI LOWELL WA8BXN 599 599 CLEVELAND OH MIKE WA8REI 579 579 FREELAND MI KEN WA9PWP 589 479 STOUGHTON WI PAUL KA8ONW 579 MASON MI MARK K1CL 559 459 CHELMSFORD MA CHUCK W8VFM 559 579 SAND CREEK MI NED The Michigan QRP net meets each Tuesday night at 9:00 PM Eastern time on 3.535 MHz. +/- QRM. All hams are welcome. Ed AB8DF Waterford, MI ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:15:32 -0500 From: "N2ICZ" To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [162173] Re: FS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The SST has been sold. Thank you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "N2ICZ" To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 12:46 PM Subject: FS > Well, I've decided to go for an FT817 and as such I need to bolster "the > fund" a bit. So the following items are offered to the qrp=l group before > they hit eBay. > > 1. Oak Hills Research 500 (OHR500) - A fine rig with super hearing. > Covers 15, 20, 30, 40 and 80 meters. Excellent cx and well cared for (You > may have to pry this from my fingers when I sell it). $365.00 post paid > CONUS. > > 2. LDG Electronics QRP Automatic Antenna Tuner (Pre-Z11). Mint. $100.00 > post paid CONUS. I also will include a DWM yo yo portable dipole antenna as > part of the package. > > 3. Wilderness SST 20 meters - 2.5 watts. Good shape. $65.00 post paid > CONUS. > > I can email pictures if you'd like. I'm working today, so I will respond to > emails within 24 hours. > > 73 and thanks. > > Larry Spinner > N2ICZ > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 05:45:36 -0700 From: "Rod N0RC" To: "Gil Stacy" , , "qrp-l" Subject: [162174] Re: [Elecraft] ARS Sprinting with the KX1 Message-ID: <012101c3b8d2$371bd640$6501a8c0@greyrock> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gil, I wouldn't bother with that. I'd just carry a 8 cell battery pack, possibly a small solar panel/recharger and plug that into the KX1--a cleaner solution for my tastes. 73, Rod N0RC **Happy Holidays** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gil Stacy" To: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 5:32 AM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] ARS Sprinting with the KX1 > > >I do wish the KX1 could hold 8 BATTS. < > > How long do you think it will be before someone does a little drilling and > splicing to make a small external lithium battery pack to bring online an > additional 2 or 3 batteries with the internal six batteries? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:00:24 -0500 From: Lee Mairs To: Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion Subject: [162175] Re: A Tale of Two Callsigns or Spartan Sprint Hi-Jinx Message-ID: <00b301c3b8dc$a696ea50$3b6d020a@J4> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Even after a ton of years, I find myself sending WA2DFK (my original call last used about 1976). It usually happens while mindlessly chasing DX or calling CQ. 73 de Lee KM4YY/8 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald W. Evans" To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:54 AM Subject: A Tale of Two Callsigns or Spartan Sprint Hi-Jinx > Well, it was bound to happen. But on my SECOND Spartan Sprint?!! A > royal SNAFU! > > I worked my first contact tonight, using my previous callsign KD5S. > > All others I worked, using my CURRENT callsign K5MVR. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:14:03 -0700 From: "Rod N0RC" To: , "qrp-l" Subject: [162176] Energizer e2 L91 Lithiums @ SAMS CLUB Message-ID: <018901c3b8de$8e7ef000$6501a8c0@greyrock> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, I saw these BATTS at SAMS yesterday, ~$20 for 12 BATTS. YEOW! That's a heck of a price. Check your local SAMs if you need these bad boys. I checked the Energizer site, tech data can be found at: http://data.energizer.com/ These BATTS are rated at 2900 mAH and weigh in at 14.5 grams! A NiMH AA batt weighs 27 grams and the best NiMH is only 2000-2200 mAH. I just wish the L91s were rechargeable, that's still an advantage of the NiMH chemistry. 73, Rod N0RC **Happy Holidays** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:18:20 -0600 From: "Jim Sheldon" To: "QRP-L Mailing List" Subject: [162177] OT: FS SW80+ and SW30+ Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since losing my job recently, I have to liquidate an asset or two. I have for sale one Small Wonder Labs SW80+ and one Small Wonder Labs SW30+. Both are approximately 3 months old and both are electrically and cosmetically excellent. Both are in the SWL enclosures and costs were $55.00 each for the boards and the enclosure kits were $39.00 each. That totals $94.00 each. Considering that these are already built and are working perfectly, I'm asking $95.00 each if sold separately. The SW80+ is set for frequency range approximately 3.532 MHz to 3.572 MHz which puts it right in the General QRP area. The SW30+ tunes from 10.096 through 10.128 MHz and both put out 2.5 - 3 watts as per SWL spec. If someone wants both of them, I'll sell them as a package for $180.00 total including shipping. Included in the price is shipping to anywhere in the US. Check, money order and I will also accept PayPal, but they charge a premium for this, so I'd prefer check or money order. Personal checks will have to clear before shipping. Interested parties please reply off list and first come, first served. Jim Sheldon, W0EB w0eb@cox.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:50:48 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Slagel To: Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion Subject: [162178] Re: 40meter vertical with a doublet on top? Message-ID: <20031202145048.64358.qmail@web11601.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Stuart, That feed sounds excellent but I assume I need to do something to keep the feedline in the center of the pipe? Gary > Gary, > Run the feeder inside a large diameter pipe, like > irrigation pipe used for > the vertical. > > ===== Gary Slagel/N0SXX Conifer, CO http://gdslagel.bravepages.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:58:21 -0800 From: "Lyle Johnson" To: "Toby Deinhardt" , "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [162179] RE: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > As a none member of the ARRL I can't read the review, so I do not > why some of the numbers on the Elecraft and TenTec sites are so > different. The numbers on the Ten Tec site were measured by Ten Tec prior to the ARRL testing. The numbers on the Elecraft site are as measured by the ARRL Lab and reported in QST. 73, Lyle KK7P ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:13:35 -0500 From: "E. Roswell" To: qrp-l@Lehigh.EDU Subject: [162180] Another: AZpad, While waiting for the paddle Message-ID: <3FCCAC1F.1050005@monmouth.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there a standard for tip, ring & sleeve for the paddles' dit, dah & ground? Everytime I make a keyer, or wire to a paddle, I am unsure of what to do. I usually have to do the "reverse" on powering up the keyer, or use the crossover cable I made. The only place I saw a diagram stating which was which was on the ElectronicsUSA.com site, where tip=dit, ring=dah, & sleeve is ground. What does everyone else do? Do the transceiver manufacturers follow a standard? 73, Ed, K2MGM. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:15:17 -0500 From: "John J. McDonough" To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [162181] Elmer 160: A few maintenance items Message-ID: <00d401c3b8e7$181150d0$090044c0@BrianBoru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A few maintenance items ... Microchip has updated their website and the 6.30 version of MPLAB is not available right now. the 6.40 version will do just fine. The differences are very minor and should not be a source of confusion for anyone. The information for ordering the PIC-EL board is not on the web site. I anticipate it will be there next weekend. This isn't a cause for concern ... we have plenty of simulator work to do before we are ready to program actual chips. I have spoken with a few folks on Echolink, but I understand that I have missed quite a few others. A little more details on my schedule.... - I will make it a point to be listening 7:30PM-8:30PM EST on Wednesday - I go upstairs for lunch typically around 1630Z, and after lunch I have a couple of routine things I do so often the radio isn't back on until 1900Z or so - I go up for dinner around 2300Z, after which I'm on MITN (3952), typically until around 0030, earlier/later depending on traffic. In the first 5 days of the month I tend to take a lot of traffic and may very well be relaying it until 0130 or so, especialy on the 4th and 5th. - At 0300Z I get on QMN at 3663 and generally go upstairs after that - Many times I am scanning so it's worth a couple of calls in case another channel is busy. - The timeout on the repeater is quite short ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:29:54 -0700 From: "Ron Pyle" To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [162182] Selling a few things... Message-ID: <00a501c3b8e9$22c25e00$65aafb40@yourjbuypagwhk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am needing to sell my ham equipment. All of this stuff is new. I don't have time to get into details or pricing right now. I'll take any reasonable offers... I have... Elecraft K2, sideband, microphone, battery... Also the I/O board. The I/O board only is not built. The radio was built by Jerry McCollom in Colorado. He did a fine job. One elecraft 2mm transverter. Not built. One Oscilloscope. Hewlitt Packard 275 mhz. I had this gone through by Irwin Fistel in Burbank. He issued a calibaration sheet on it. Done about a month ago. two new probes also. Nice scope. MFJ antenna analyzer. BK Precision 5360 multimeter. Oak Hills 100W RF load....built. Palm Paddle with code cube. Vibroplex Bug with dust cover and extra weight. Hakko 936 soldering station...used a little. Hakko 808 desoldering gun. Panavise with wide jaws and circuit board jaws and round base. Much wire from wireman 14awg hard drawn copper, 18 awg and 13 awg, insulated steel and copper. Much 16 awg soft tinned bare copper solid wire (this stuff is much better than I thought...would be great for temporary antennas). FT 1500.... can include 5/8 wave antenna with magnetic mount. A three magnet mount for vehicle with a "Diamond" type connector....could put a PL259 in it if wanted to. ARRL handbook and antenna book. Need to sell all. Will take paypal. Please contact me if interested. I'm in a hurry right now as I have much to do right now. Will answer email perhaps tonight? Ron KC0QXU ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:39:39 -0600 (CST) From: Dale Botkin To: "E. Roswell" Cc: Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion Subject: [162183] Re: Another: AZpad, While waiting for the paddle Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, E. Roswell wrote: > Is there a standard for tip, ring & sleeve for the paddles' dit, dah & > ground? Everytime I make a keyer, or wire to a paddle, I am unsure of > what to do. I usually have to do the "reverse" on powering up the > keyer, or use the crossover cable I made. The only place I saw a > diagram stating which was which was on the ElectronicsUSA.com site, > where tip=dit, ring=dah, & sleeve is ground. What does everyone else > do? Do the transceiver manufacturers follow a standard? 73, Ed, K2MGM. That's the way I have seen just about every paddle and keyer I have looked at. My own kit uses that standard as well, dit on the tip, dah on the ring, ground on the sleeve. 73, Dale - N0XAS -- It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of Karma to burn off. PicoKeyer Analog with pot speed control now available! Or add memory and more to your Rock-Mite -- http://www.hamgadgets.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:18:43 -0600 From: "Jim Sheldon" To: "QRP-L Mailing List" Subject: [162184] RE: Another: AZpad, While waiting for the paddle Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ed and others, I've always used this convention, tip=dit, ring=dah and sleeve ground. I've kept to this convention on both 1/4" plugs and 1/8" plugs. The only keyer I've ever had that didn't conform to this was one of the MFJ's, and I re-wired it by cutting traces and installing crossover wires so that all my paddles would work with it and any other keyer I have. It certainly should be the standard if it isn't already. Jim, W0EB -----Original Message----- From: owner-qrp-l@Lehigh.EDU [mailto:owner-qrp-l@Lehigh.EDU]On Behalf Of E. Roswell Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 9:14 AM To: Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion Subject: Another: AZpad, While waiting for the paddle Is there a standard for tip, ring & sleeve for the paddles' dit, dah & ground? Everytime I make a keyer, or wire to a paddle, I am unsure of what to do. I usually have to do the "reverse" on powering up the keyer, or use the crossover cable I made. The only place I saw a diagram stating which was which was on the ElectronicsUSA.com site, where tip=dit, ring=dah, & sleeve is ground. What does everyone else do? Do the transceiver manufacturers follow a standard? 73, Ed, K2MGM. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:24:18 -0500 From: "Charles Mabbott" To: qrp-l@Lehigh.EDU Subject: [162185] RE: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Ahhh marketing...................... 73 Chuck AA8VS "The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while Nature cures the disease." Voltaire www.aa8vs.org/nren ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Lyle Johnson" Reply-To: wa7gxd@fidalgo.net To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:58:21 -0800 > As a none member of the ARRL I can't read the review, so I do not > why some of the numbers on the Elecraft and TenTec sites are so > different. The numbers on the Ten Tec site were measured by Ten Tec prior to the ARRL testing. The numbers on the Elecraft site are as measured by the ARRL Lab and reported in QST. 73, Lyle KK7P _________________________________________________________________ Gift-shop online from the comfort of home at MSN Shopping! No crowds, free parking. http://shopping.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:33:26 -0600 From: "Aartec" To: "qrp-l@Lehigh. EDU" Subject: [162186] Revised FOX Log -- W0PWE Hunt 9 Message-ID: <000c01c3b8f2$02a3ee00$5fdfcecf@b6v6o9> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is the revised log from hunt 9, 25 Nov 2003. Thanks again for participating. 72, Jerry -- W0PWE 0200 AC7A 559 AZ TOM 5W 0201 KB2FEL 559 NY BOB 5W 0201 K9UT 559 IN Jerry 5W 0202 AC5JH 599 OK TOM 5W 0203 W2AGN 579 NJ JOHN 5W 0204 W5YR 559 TX GEORGE 5W 0204 N4ROA 559 VA DAN 5W 0205 KT5V 559 TX DAVID 5W 0205 N3BJ 559 VA ALAN 5W 0206 WB8YYY 559 MD CURT 5W 0207 K5DW 559 TX DON 5W 0209 KK5LD 559 TX DAN 5W 0210 W4FOA 559 GA TONY 5W 0211 AD6JV 559 VA BILL 5W 0211 W5TB 559 TX DOC 5W 0212 K2ZN 579 NY AL 5W 0213 KR0U 559 CO TIM 5W 0213 W5HNS 559 TX HENRY 5W 0214 K3ESE 559 MD LLOYD 5W 0214 N0TK 579 CO DAN 5W 0215 N5ZE 559 TX LEW 5W 0216 W0NTA 559 CO DICK 5W 0217 AA7EQ 559 AZ BOB 5W 0217 AF4PP 559 GA CHUCK 5W 0218 K0EVZ 579 NM DOC 5W 0219 WA8BXN 559 OH MIKE 5W 0220 AJ4AY 559 AL JAY 5W 0220 AG0T 559 ND TODD 4W 0221 N8VAR 559 OH RON 5W 0222 NK6A 559 CA DON 5W 0223 K3PH 559 PA BOB 5W 0224 K8DD/M 549 MI HANK 5W 0224 N4DD 559 TN DENNIS 5W 0225 AB9CA 559 AL DAVE 5W 0226 K5JHP 559 TX BILL 5W 0226 KC1FB 559 CT JIM 5W 0227 KL7V 559 OK SAM 5W 0228 K1VP 559 NH ED 5W 0229 KV2X 559 NY TOM 5W 0230 K5PSH 559 TX JERRY 5W 0230 W5USJ 559 TX CHUCK 5W 0231 K8CV 559 MI WALT 5W 0232 AG4PJ 559 AL DAVE 5W 0232 KG0PP 559 CO JIM 5W 0233 K5IC 559 NM AUDIE 5W 0234 WS4S 559 TN CONARD 5W 0235 K6VNX 559 CA ARLEN 5W 0236 KN5L 559 TX JOHN 5W 0237 K8KFJ 579 WV GARY 5W 0238 KI0II 579 CO RON 5W 0239 K4JPN 579 GA STEVE 5W 0240 KD5KXF 559 TX MIKE 5W 0241 W7ILW 559 AZ WALT 5W 0242 AA50 559 LA VERN 5W 0243 NV4V 559 KY PETE 5W 0244 W8KC 579 MI PAUL 5W 0245 K6XR 559 CA REGGIE 5W 0246 K4GT 559 GA JIM 5W 0247 K5EOA 559 LA WAYNE 5W 0248 W5KDJ 559 TX WAYNE 500MW 0249 WA2TDL 559 NY RICK 5W 0251 AB0CD 559 CO DICK 5W 0252 VE4WI 559 MB CRAIG 5W 0254 K2TER 559 NY BILL 5W 0254 K8MIA 559 WV JIM 5W 0258 K4ADI 559 SC FRANK 5W 0258 K0QD 559 CO HUGH 5W 0259 KD5S 559 TX RON 5W 0300 AK7Y 559 AZ GREG 5W 0303 KG6WP 559 CA WARD 5W 0304 AK5X 559 TX BILL 5W 0305 W2LJ 559 NJ LARRY 4W 0306 KC9LC 559 VA RANDY 5W 0308 KG4LDY 559 VA JIM 5W 0309 K5DI 559 NM KARL 5W 0311 VA6RF 559 AB EARL 5W 0315 KO1M 559 VA MIKE 5W 0318 W9JOP/4 559 VA BOB 150MW 0321 K4TU 559 SC ALAN 3W 0327 N5IB 559 LA JIM 5W 0328 KD5UDB 559 LA CHRIS 5W 0329 NN5E 559 TX VERN 5W 0331 W6AZ 559 CA RON 5W 0335 WB8WTU 559 OH DENNIS 4W 0339 K5SR 559 TX DALE 5W 0345 VE3ELA 559 ON KEN 3W 0346 VE5RC 559 SK BRUCE 5W 0351 W4NJK 559 CA CHARLIE 5W 0355 VE3PLP 439 ON JIM 5W 0357 WA9TZE 559 WI JIM 5W 0400 N1FN XXX CO FOX 5W 0400 W0PWE XXX IA FOX 5W ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:58:53 -0700 From: "Ronnie Zoerb" To: "Ten Tec Reflector" , "QRP-L Post messages" Subject: [162187] RE: FS TT 509 Argonaut Station, Price Reduced Message-ID: <001401c3b8f5$9219ab80$1daf490c@sony> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reduced to $190 plus shipping for the package. Thanks! 73 Ron KI0II *********************** I have for sale a very nice Ten Tec Argonaut 509 station consisting of the following equipment. - Ten Tec 509 Argonaut, Serial # 02239. Very nice original condition with near perfect front panel, original knobs and tight dial string. PTO is nice and tight. Manual included. - Model 208 CW Filter with 3 position switch. Looks and works good. - Model 206 Crystal Calibrator. Works as described in the manual. - Electra-Voice banana mic with stand. Some paint wear on the mic but works good. Digital pictures can be provided upon request. This station is assembled in working order and is available for a sked if desired on either CW or SSB. Bands (10, 15, 20, 40 & 80). One of the classic QRP setups with exceptional performance! Now asking $190 plus shipping from 80128. 73 Ron KI0II 'KI0II@arrl.net' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:18:57 -0800 From: Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft To: Toby Deinhardt Cc: Elecraft List , QRP-L Subject: [162188] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: <3FCCC981.1070108@elecraft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Toby, The Orion numbers Ten-Tec quotes on their web site are what they were claiming from their lab tests on the Orion, versus the final ARRL review numbers. They will probably change their posted numbers now that the ARRL review is out, since this is the standard for comparison. We try to only post ARRL tested numbers on our comparison page to eliminate any question of bias. We certainly do not filter our numbers :-) 73, Eric WA6HHQ Elecraft Toby Deinhardt wrote: > As a none member of the ARRL I can't read the review, so I do not > why some of the numbers on the Elecraft and TenTec sites are so > different. > > I get the feeling that one or both companies use a marketing filter > worth several dBs ... ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:46:01 -0800 From: Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft To: drcuthbert@micron.com Cc: dj7mgq@muenchen-mail.de, elecraft@mailman.qth.net, qrp-l@lehigh.edu Subject: [162189] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: <3FCCCFD9.7040403@elecraft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dave, The phase noise from the PLL is a contributing factor in the BDR, but in the case of the Orion and the K2 it is not the limiting factor. In those cases other amplifiers in the RX chain are probably limiting out before the phase noise comes into play. Also, the ARRL tests phase noise in -transmit-, so additional noise sources may be coming into play that are not present during receive. 73, ERic drcuthbert@micron.com wrote: > I notice that the K2 phase noise at 4 KHz offset the LO is -124 dBc. The BDR at 5 kHz is 135 dB. Shouldn't the phase noise dominate and determine the BDR at this offset? I am making the assumption (perhaps incorrectly) that if the phase noise at 5 kHz offset is -124 dBc then a signal at +124 dB above the desired received signal will mix to produce noise of 0 dB (referenced to the received signal). Note that I am assuming the phase noise at 5 kHz offset is the same as at 4 kHz offset. > > Dave WX7G > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:18:25 -0800 From: "Mike Boatright" To: "Qrp-L" Subject: [162190] Re: Interesting CW Catch..... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The artifact could be in your receiver, depends on the receiver and the front end. A DDS spur could create an image that made it through the front end... 72 de Mike, KO4WX ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:56:47 -0500 From: Bruce Muscolino To: gdslagel@yahoo.com Cc: Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion Subject: [162191] Re: 40meter vertical with a doublet on top? Message-ID: <3FCCE06F.8A97D47@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keep in mind that the requirements for open wire feedline will be the same inside a pipe as they are outside the pipe. Using metal pipe only makes meeting them harder. You will have to devise a way to keep the feeder centred for the whole length of the antenna. This is not an easy thing to accomplish. Depending on the total height you may need a spacer each lot or so. Also, you should look for the minimum recommended distance the feedline should be kept away from a large metallic object. This will set your diameter (2X the spacing distance). You may not find it inexpensive to purchase. And remember the feedline must also conform to the spacing at the bottom where it enters into the pipe. You will have a lot going on at the basel what with the feedlines to both antennas and the gamma match structure. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:05:03 -0500 From: Bruce Muscolino To: Toby Deinhardt Cc: Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion Subject: [162192] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: <3FCCE25F.32E3EC38@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Toby, Each manufacturer does his own measurements. On their web site and in their advertising they can use any numbers they want. The ARRL provides an independent source of testing. Their numbers are universally seen as the right values. The test lab is certified by an independent source. It's sort of like Consumer Reports, etc. 73 > > I get the feeling that one or both companies use a marketing filter > worth several dBs ... ;-) > > I've built two K2s - they work mostly very well - I built them myself - > I'm happy - never seen or tried an Orion. > > vy 73 de toby ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:27:06 -0800 From: "Doug Hendricks" To: Cc: "Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft" Subject: [162193] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: <02cb01c3b90a$46b0a8a0$4a0b0d0a@dph.dpol.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric, I am addressing this to you via the list as I have always wondered about the ARRL testing procedure. How are the rigs selected? Does the manufacturer send a sample to them? Do they pick one at random from a dealer? It would seem to be easy to get an Orion from Tentec having a "blind" person buy it and then give it to the ARRL, just as it would be to have someone order a K2 and then build it and send to the ARRL for testing. That would assure that the dealers don't get to cherry pick a rig, or kit. Or, did Elecraft get to hand pick a radio to send? Did Tentec get to handpick a radio for testing? Was the K2 and Orion that was tested by the ARRL the same rig that was tested in your respective labs? I think it makes a difference, scientifically. Also, we must remember a couple of things. First of all, they are testing a sample of 1. There are differences in radios that come off the production line, and there are certainly differences in kit builders. I am reminded of the caveat that Jim Cates told me about Heathkits, "The kit is only as good as the builder." To that end I must say that I saw a much broader spectrum of quality in Heathkits, they ranged from horrible messes to excellent. I am totally impressed with Elecraft kits in that your spectrum of quality is not nearly as broad as Heathkits. I have never seen nor heard a "bad" K2, most builders seem to be at the very good to excellent level when it comes to results. That is a testimony to your quality control of parts, your manuals, and your support. I have heard people say that they miss Heathkit. I don't. I think we have far, far better kits today than we did when they were basically the only game in town. But you must admit, that Heath catalog had a lot of pages, grin. 72, Doug ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 20:22:24 +0000 From: Chuck Adams To: qrp-l@lehigh.edu Subject: [162194] [Elmer160] PICkit 1 from Microchip Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031202194108.01e10ea0@mail.commspeed.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Gang, I also have one of these kits that I bought from Digikey for the $36 plus shipping. About $39 when all was said and done to AZ. It is one of the cheapest ways to get a programmer and 2 chips to play with. Self powered from a USB port and it comes with software and cable. http://www.microchip.com/pickit/ Although John is using the 16F84A for his course, the core of the Microchip processors is basically the same set of instructions, ~35. The 16F84A does have some instructions like CLRC, and others that aren't available in some processors. Not too big a deal. The PICkit 1 comes with a 12F675 processor (8-pin DIP) and if you fill out the postcard and mail it in, they will FedEx to you from Taiwan a brand new 16F676 processor (14-pin DIP) that has A-to-D in it. The software that comes with the kit, MPLAB 6.3, a C compiler, etc. will ONLY work with Windows 98 SE or later. If you insist on keeping the old versions of M/S O/S, then it won't work. No LINUX support at this time, so you'll need two systems or a dual bootable system. Also, another note. If you go to http://www.microchip.com/ and look for a link at the top of the page for samples of their products, you can get a sample of 2 processors of your choice. Such a deal. You can even get the 16F84A if you are going with that processor during the course and afterwards. I'm sure there will be notes on QRP-L about issues that come up between processors that others are familiar with and how to solve them. You can even get the processor Dale used in his QST article if you have a hardware programmer like a PICSTART Plus (tm). Please, please. Put [Elmer160] at the front of your posting to QRP-L re Microchip and the course. This will allow many to route it to a folder for keeping or to /dev/null if they are not interested in using uP's. If you get a PICkit 1, please let me know direct. I am looking for a couple of serious people to review a book that I am writing and will send you a PDF copy on CD sometime in January to review. Only serious offers considered and you have to prove to me that you have a complete grasp of the English language and are willing to do the necessary work to get it done ASAP. No pay, but you will get your name in the book, promise. You'll need a signal generator, 50MHz or better scope, and a good frequency counter for doing the labs. These instruments students will have in their labs..... Send me your resume apropos for doing this, not to the list. You don't have to know how to program as that is what the book will teach you to do. ~380 pages when all is said and done. FYI, Chuck Adams K7QO k7qo@commspeed.net http://www.qsl.net/k7qo CP-60 Moving to Arizona? Please bring your own water. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:25:18 -0500 From: "John J. McDonough" To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [162195] Re: Elmer 160: A few maintenance items Message-ID: <007801c3b912$6a024770$090044c0@BrianBoru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don, AE5K wrote: > You might add a few details on HOW to contact you via echolink ... > look for your call or what? Sorry. I forgot that not everyone may have seen the earlier post. You can often catch me on the Echolink node KC8TQU-R. This links to the WB8WNF repeater which has a 45 second timeout. I'm in the shack a lot these days, and if I'm not on HF, I am at least scanning that frequency. It's probably worth calling a couple of times since it's pretty easy for the scan to miss a short call. 72/73 de WB8RCR http://www.qsl.net/wb8rcr didileydadidah QRP-L #1446 Code Warriors #35 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:23:00 -0500 From: "Armin Hachmer" To: "QRP-L" , "QRP-Canada" Subject: [162196] "ET phone home" ? Message-ID: <000301c3b912$7c62b760$986c7bd8@muskoka.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit chatter at the coffee shop this morning was all about a TV program last night on Unsolved Mysteries. ELF ..extremely low frequency used by the military to communicate over great distances ( i am quoting this, did not see it myself) is audible to some human ears. hm... it is supposed to sound like a big diesel truck laboring up a distant hill. Has anyone seen the program and can tell me more? Curious Armin VE3TEQ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:28:35 -0500 From: "Mike Yetsko" To: "Doug Hendricks" , "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [162197] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: <012a01c3b91b$41f47060$0200a8c0@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Eric, I am addressing this to you via the list as I have always wondered > about the ARRL testing procedure. How are the rigs selected? Does the > manufacturer send a sample to them? Do they pick one at random from a > dealer? It would seem to be easy to get an Orion from Tentec having a > "blind" person buy it and then give it to the ARRL, just as it would be to > have someone order a K2 and then build it and send to the ARRL for testing. > That would assure that the dealers don't get to cherry pick a rig, or kit. > > Or, did Elecraft get to hand pick a radio to send? Did Tentec get to > handpick a radio for testing? If I remember, the ARRL had an article a while ago about this. About how they BOUGHT all the rigs they reviewed, that way they wouldn't be handed a ringer. As to K2, I remember an article about someone at HQ building it. Messed it up, if I remember, and it had to be straightened out. I wonder if that was the K2 that was eventually reviewed... But also remember with a 'factory' product, it's 'test as is'. But with a kit, it will be 'align to max' during the build process and then test... Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:25:23 -0500 From: "Mike Yetsko" To: , "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [162198] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: <011601c3b91a$d191fe00$0200a8c0@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft" > > The Orion numbers Ten-Tec quotes on their web site are what they were claiming > from their lab tests on the Orion, versus the final ARRL review numbers. They > will probably change their posted numbers now that the ARRL review is out, > since this is the standard for comparison. > So... Since you only post/compare the ARRL listing, just what kind of numbers did you guys come up with in your lab for your OWN K2's? The 'cherry built' from hand selected parts by the very guys that designed them? Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:40:14 EST From: ARDUJENSKI@aol.com To: qrp-l@lehigh.edu Subject: [162199] OT: Electronics learning lab? Message-ID: <65.1de5311e.2cfe60be@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This may not be highly technical enough for this group but I would like to locate a good electronics lab kit where you can build various circuits and experiment with variables in the circuit. I have located one type: www.montek.com/catalog/cat9_1.htm I also saw the ones advertised in the back of QST such as the snap-in ones. Was looking for some suggestions on some others available. I would even consider ones on CD and you build virtual circuits. Sure I could always buy a dozen various kits but for me one of these lab type centers would prove more beneficial (AND COST EFFECTIVE). Thanks for the bandwidth and taking time to offer some suggestions. Alan KB7MBI ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:58:13 -0800 From: "Lyle Johnson" To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [162200] RE: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Doug! >...I have always wondered > about the ARRL testing procedure. How are the rigs selected? Does the > manufacturer send a sample to them? No need to wonder. QST clearly states that the products they test are purchased from normal channels. This is to avoid cherry-picking or special handling. The ARRL regularly sells the reviewed products in a sealed-bid auction, announced in QST. Hope this helps, 72, Lyle KK7P ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:58:05 +0100 From: "Toby Deinhardt" To: "Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft" Cc: "Elecraft List" , "QRP-L" Subject: [162201] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: <002c01c3b91f$606ee170$0300a8c0@tobyWinXP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Eric, > any question of bias. We certainly do not filter our numbers :-) please do not misunderstand me - I did not mean to say that Elecraft, or for that matter TenTec, is in any way being dishonest. It was supposed to be a tounge in cheek comment about the fact that often due, sometimes fine differences in methodology, varying results will occur. Or to say it in German: Wer misst misst mist. Of course almost any business will tend to use the test results and/or marketing which is most satisfactory for its products. In other words, if the K2 had not tested as well as it has, I doubt you would publish such a detailed comparison page. I have being wondering about numbers which TenTec has been claiming - they do look fascinating - but for good reason (non-pecuniary ) I built a second K2 and did not buy an Orion. I hope to see the review when it comes out. Sometimes I get lucky and get to see american ham mags. vy 73 de toby ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:05:07 -0500 From: "Joseph Trombino Jr" To: "Doug Hendricks" Cc: "QRP-L" Subject: [162202] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: <005e01c3b920$59439840$220110ac@gateway.2wire.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Hendricks" To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page > Eric, I am addressing this to you via the list as I have always wondered > about the ARRL testing procedure. How are the rigs selected? Does the > manufacturer send a sample to them? Do they pick one at random from a > dealer? It would seem to be easy to get an Orion from Tentec having a > "blind" person buy it and then give it to the ARRL, just as it would be to > have someone order a K2 and then build it and send to the ARRL for testing. > That would assure that the dealers don't get to cherry pick a rig, or kit. ----------------snip--------------- Howdy Doug: I have read that the ARRL orders a stock, off-the-line radio using a person not recognized to be an ARRL employee to do the ordering. TenTec has told me that they are not aware that the ARRL is ordering one of their radios using the above scenario. As for differences in the numbers, I believe there has been quite a bit of discussion relative to the differences in testing regimes that ultimately determine the technical specs of a radio. I don't think that the ARRL has the absolutely perfect testing regime and produces absolutely perfect numbers anymore than TenTec does....thus the reason for differing numbers. As you pointed out, I am sure that there are differences in production radios that would produce different numbers. For example, the ARRL published a 3rd order intercept point number of -4 for the ARGO V. I have used radios with a number in the negative realm and they really do fold up under strong signals on and nearby the operating frequency. I used my ARGO V in the CW contest this past weekend and would be very surprised if my ARGO V had a -4 third order intercept point....it handled the very strong signals extremely well. The ARGO V that ARRL tested might have had some problems and thus the negative numbers. It would be interesting to see if there exists some technical standard by which all receivers may be measured using standard equipment such that testing can be accurately repeated from one lab to another. 73, Joe W2KJ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:25:15 -0500 From: "Hare,Ed, W1RFI" To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [162203] RE: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: <721D3436A7C2B344A301FD4A413C71A90173582E@kosh.arrlhq.org> content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I can answer a few of these questions, Doug. You are right; Product Reviews are a sample of one. That means that = quibbling over dB is probably=20 a pointless excerise. :-) ARRL buys most rigs on the open market, from one of several of the major = dealers. Based on the problems=20 found with some rigs, it is pretty clear that this process does not = result in hand-selected equipment. When we buy a rig directly from a manufacturer, we usually have a ham = not working at HQ make the purchase. That is what we did for the Orion. The Elecraft equipment was purchased directly from Elecraft, but in the = case of a kit, I don't believe it to=20 be possible for them to have hand selected a kit, other than to perhaps = triple check that all the parts were there. 73,=20 Ed Hare, W1RFI ARRL Lab 225 Main St Newington, CT 06111 Tel: 860-594-0318 Internet: w1rfi@arrl.org Web: http://www.arrl.org/tis > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Hendricks [mailto:ki6ds@dpol.net] > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:27 PM > To: Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page >=20 >=20 > Eric, I am addressing this to you via the list as I have=20 > always wondered > about the ARRL testing procedure. How are the rigs selected?=20 > Does the > manufacturer send a sample to them? Do they pick one at random from a > dealer? It would seem to be easy to get an Orion from Tentec having a > "blind" person buy it and then give it to the ARRL, just as=20 > it would be to > have someone order a K2 and then build it and send to the=20 > ARRL for testing. > That would assure that the dealers don't get to cherry pick a=20 > rig, or kit. >=20 > Or, did Elecraft get to hand pick a radio to send? Did Tentec get to > handpick a radio for testing? Was the K2 and Orion that was=20 > tested by the > ARRL the same rig that was tested in your respective labs? I=20 > think it makes > a difference, scientifically. Also, we must remember a=20 > couple of things. > First of all, they are testing a sample of 1. There are=20 > differences in > radios that come off the production line, and there are certainly > differences in kit builders. I am reminded of the caveat=20 > that Jim Cates > told me about Heathkits, "The kit is only as good as the=20 > builder." To that > end I must say that I saw a much broader spectrum of quality=20 > in Heathkits, > they ranged from horrible messes to excellent. I am totally=20 > impressed with > Elecraft kits in that your spectrum of quality is not nearly=20 > as broad as > Heathkits. I have never seen nor heard a "bad" K2, most=20 > builders seem to be > at the very good to excellent level when it comes to results.=20 > That is a > testimony to your quality control of parts, your manuals, and=20 > your support. >=20 > I have heard people say that they miss Heathkit. I don't. I=20 > think we have > far, far better kits today than we did when they were=20 > basically the only > game in town. But you must admit, that Heath catalog had a=20 > lot of pages, > grin. 72, Doug >=20 >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:25:32 +0000 From: "Bill Rowlett" To: eric@elecraft.com, qrp-l@Lehigh.EDU Subject: [162204] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Apples to apples gentleman. I see very few on the list to do a true side by side test with your K2. 73, Bill kc4atu >From: Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft >Reply-To: eric@elecraft.com >To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page >Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:18:57 -0800 > >Hi Toby, > >The Orion numbers Ten-Tec quotes on their web site are what they were >claiming from their lab tests on the Orion, versus the final ARRL review >numbers. They will probably change their posted numbers now that the ARRL >review is out, since this is the standard for comparison. > >We try to only post ARRL tested numbers on our comparison page to eliminate >any question of bias. We certainly do not filter our numbers :-) > >73, Eric WA6HHQ >Elecraft > > >Toby Deinhardt wrote: > >>As a none member of the ARRL I can't read the review, so I do not >>why some of the numbers on the Elecraft and TenTec sites are so different. >> >>I get the feeling that one or both companies use a marketing filter >>worth several dBs ... ;-) > _________________________________________________________________ Groove on the latest from the hot new rock groups! Get downloads, videos, and more here. http://special.msn.com/entertainment/wiredformusic.armx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:42:30 +0000 From: M Taylor To: Doug Hendricks Cc: Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion Subject: [162205] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: <20031202224230.A4379@pull.privacy.nb.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:27:06AM -0800, Doug Hendricks wrote: > Eric, I am addressing this to you via the list as I have always wondered > about the ARRL testing procedure. How are the rigs selected? Does the > manufacturer send a sample to them? Do they pick one at random from a > dealer? It would seem to be easy to get an Orion from Tentec having a QST Product Reviews: A Look Behind The Scenes QST October 1994, pp. 35-38 See the shaded sidebar on page 38 (5 of the pdf). -ve3tix (ex-VE1MCT) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:52:08 -0500 From: Peter Burbank To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [162206] Re: "ET phone home" ? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031202172342.00a24ec0@mail.qx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Armin es gangue. I was reading some stuff about Navy Sub communications a few days ago and a mention was made about an ELF antenna in Wisconsin. The legs were 14 miles long and beryllium handling gobs of power.The reason for the frequency is that it penetrates saltwater for maybe 30 feet for submarine receiving. When I was in subs we experimented with many antennas to hear NSS and NAA full time. One was a trailing floating wire. We ran up the periscope and there were hundreds of seagulls chasing it. Hardly secret! I have read things about people being annoyed by signals being rectified by their tooth fillings. My 2 cents......73 :-) Pete NV4V At 03:23 PM 12/2/2003, Armin Hachmer wrote: >chatter at the coffee shop this morning was all about a TV program last >night on Unsolved Mysteries. > >ELF ..extremely low frequency used by the military to communicate over >great distances ( i am quoting this, did not see it myself) is audible to >some human ears. > >hm... it is supposed to sound like a >big diesel truck laboring up a distant hill. > >Has anyone seen the program and can tell me more? > >Curious Armin VE3TEQ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:54:27 -0800 From: "Bill Linn" To: , "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [162207] Re: Another: AZpad, While waiting for the paddle Message-ID: <002701c3b927$3dc83560$ab70ef42@wa7tqk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've made several and had the same problem... I settled on putting the dit side on the tip. Bill, W7WEL --- [SMGazette.com E-mail is scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] [Visit us on the web at SMGazette.com] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:06:51 -0600 From: "George, W5YR" To: , "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [162208] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: <010201c3b928$f935aa20$0401a8c0@PS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, how do you handle a situation where you can only buy from the factory and still maintain anonymity and obtain a non-cherry radio to test? George W5YR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Yetsko" To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page > > Eric, I am addressing this to you via the list as I have always wondered > > about the ARRL testing procedure. How are the rigs selected? Does the > > manufacturer send a sample to them? Do they pick one at random from a > > dealer? It would seem to be easy to get an Orion from Tentec having a > > "blind" person buy it and then give it to the ARRL, just as it would be > to > > have someone order a K2 and then build it and send to the ARRL for > testing. > > That would assure that the dealers don't get to cherry pick a rig, or > kit. > > > > Or, did Elecraft get to hand pick a radio to send? Did Tentec get to > > handpick a radio for testing? > > If I remember, the ARRL had an article a while ago about this. About how > they BOUGHT all the rigs they reviewed, that way they wouldn't be handed > a ringer. > > As to K2, I remember an article about someone at HQ building it. Messed > it up, if I remember, and it had to be straightened out. I wonder if that > was > the K2 that was eventually reviewed... > > But also remember with a 'factory' product, it's 'test as is'. But with a > kit, it will be 'align to max' during the build process and then test... > > Mike > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:07:36 +0000 From: Howard Oakley To: Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion Subject: [162209] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 2/12/03 19:27, Doug Hendricks wrote: > How are the rigs selected? Does the > manufacturer send a sample to them? Do they pick one at random from a > dealer? Statistically the ideal would be (assuming a sample of 1) a perfectly average example, with an idea of how performance varies between other examples. This would match the mean +/- standard deviation beloved of scientific papers. However, the chances of anyone selecting such a perfectly average example may be small (depending on the variation and distribution). A manufacturer would wish to select an example towards the upper end of performance; a random sample could be anywhere within the range and thus in many cases would hinder comparisons between different radios, even if there was knowledge about performance variation. So if I was designing a reviewing system based on testing single samples, I would prefer to ask manufacturers to provide a standard production example that they believe to perform well. But I would then need to warn readers that they should interpret the results in the light of the fact that all test radios are likely to perform towards the upper end. > Also, we must remember a couple of things. > First of all, they are testing a sample of 1. There are differences in > radios that come off the production line, and there are certainly > differences in kit builders. Does anyone have a feel for the variation in test performance of any given radio (ideally in terms of standard deviation, or a related statistic)? The Elecraft page states that "Lab tests and rigs can vary by several dB, so results within 2-3 dB are roughly equivalent." Can we be more precise than that, separating measurement error, differences between labs/techniques, and variation in production/construction? How do those compare with the differences between various makes and models of radio (i.e. Intra-individual versus inter-individual variation)? 72, Howard. Dr Howard Oakley Isle of Wight, UK M1BWR (IO90JO, EU-120) Active from 80 m to 23 cm QRP ARCI 11583; UKSMG 1718; RSGB; ARRL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:43:32 -0600 From: "Stuart Rohre" To: , Subject: [162210] Re: Non Corrosive RTV Message-ID: <000301c3b92e$187bda30$4e100a0a@rohredt2000> Dick is correct. Original Dow 732 RTV was based on outgassing acetic acid, (vinegar) while taking up water to cure it. GE Silicone II and later Dow 73x series have alcohol emission during cure. Moisture is still a needed adjunct to cure. -Stuart K5KVH ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:42:46 -0800 From: "DTX" To: Subject: [162211] Re: "ET phone home" ? Message-ID: <002201c3b92d$fcfb4b60$0c00a8c0@home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ELF as in 300 to 3000 Hz? Even so, to my knowledge the ears do not hear electromagnetic radiation no matter how low the frequency. Perhaps being in the "near field" of a 200KW transmitter feeding an antenna at 3kHz might cause physiological effects, i.e. a throbbing sensation in the head ;-) I did not see that show, but a few nights ago I did see a History Channel program that described the Looking Glass airborne SAC command center. They fed 200KW to a trailing antenna 5 MILES long. Said they flew in a tight circle so the antenna would droop to the vertical as much as possible. Hmmm, not sure I'd want to do that. It's purpose was to send launch codes to submerged submarines. Gary WA6DTX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Armin Hachmer" To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:23 PM Subject: "ET phone home" ? > chatter at the coffee shop this morning was all about a TV program last > night on Unsolved Mysteries. > > ELF ..extremely low frequency used by the military to communicate over > great distances ( i am quoting this, did not see it myself) is audible to > some human ears. > > hm... it is supposed to sound like a > big diesel truck laboring up a distant hill. > > Has anyone seen the program and can tell me more? > > Curious Armin VE3TEQ > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:46:19 -0600 From: "Stuart Rohre" To: , Subject: [162212] Re: Two-foot shielded patch cords 3.5 mm? Message-ID: <000301c3b92e$7c1549f0$4e100a0a@rohredt2000> Hard to find custom short lengths, but you can take a commercial one cut in half; and have two, with only one connector end to solder onto each one. -Stuart K5KVH ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:46:43 -0500 (EST) From: "Paul, VE1DY" To: qrp-l@Lehigh.EDU Subject: [162213] Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Message-ID: <20031202234643.786653962@mprdmxin.myway.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Doug... you will have to start reading the Ten Tec reflector (hi). I believe this will answer your question (from the Ten Tec Archives). http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/TenTec/2003-03/msg00251.html 73, 72... Paul --- On Tue 12/02, Doug Hendricks < ki6ds@dpol.net > wrote: From: Doug Hendricks [mailto: ki6ds@dpol.net] To: qrp-l@Lehigh.EDU Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:27:06 -0800 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Orion added to Elecraft rig RX comparison page Eric, I am addressing this to you via the list as I have always wondered
about the ARRL testing procedure. How are the rigs selected? Does the
manufacturer send a sample to them? Do they pick one at random from a
dealer? It would seem to be easy to get an Orion from Tentec having a
"blind" person buy it and then give it to the ARRL, just as it would be to
have someone order a K2 and then build it and send to the ARRL for testing.
That would assure that the dealers don't get to cherry pick a rig, or kit.

Or, did Elecraft get to hand pick a radio to send? Did Tentec get to
handpick a radio for testing? Was the K2 and Orion that was tested by the
ARRL the same rig that was tested in your respective labs? I think it makes
a difference, scientifically. Also, we must remember a couple of things.
First of all, they are testing a sample of 1. There are differences in
radios that come off the production line, and there are certainlydifferences in kit builders. I am reminded of the caveat that Jim Cates
told me about Heathkits, "The kit is only as good as the builder." To that
end I must say that I saw a much broader spectrum of quality in Heathkits,
they ranged from horrible messes to excellent. I am totally impressed with
Elecraft kits in that your spectrum of quality is not nearly as broad as
Heathkits. I have never seen nor heard a "bad" K2, most builders seem to be
at the very good to excellent level when it comes to results. That is a
testimony to your quality control of parts, your manuals, and your support.

I have heard people say that they miss Heathkit. I don't. I think we have
far, far better kits today than we did when they were basically the only
game in town. But you must admit, that Heath catalog had a lot of pages,
grin. 72, Doug

_______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Introducing My Way - http://www.myway.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:54:56 -0600 From: "Stuart Rohre" To: "Gary Slagel" , Subject: [162214] Re: 40meter vertical with a doublet on top? Message-ID: <000301c3b92f$b06582f0$4e100a0a@rohredt2000> yes, when feeding with parallel line you should provide foam insulation every 18 inches or some means of keeping the line off the wall of inner tube. twisting a line, helps also to cancel stray coupling. cut foam spacers and hot glue to twin line, maybe twin lead is best, every 18 inches, twisting line in between the spacers. Should be able to pull the line thru the pipe gently. -Stuart K5KVH ------------------------------ End of QRP-L Digest 3122 ************************ --------------------------------