From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jan 3 12:46:57 2003 Return-Path: <> Delivered-To: adamf@ibiblio.org Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by mail.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E48624AE18 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:46:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h03Fjr9t008596 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:46:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200301031746.h03Fjr9t008596@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 12:46:55 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0112E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Content-Length: 39134 Lines: 763 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 07:50:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Antioxidant Claims For Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Fischer wrote: > > Aaron Morris said: > > > Truth be told I've been a bit disappointed with the amount of > > publicity given to the Anti-O properties of honey. It seems that's a > > message that the NHB (and beekeepers too) should be shouting > > from every mountain top! > > Yes, you can shout, but be careful what you shout. Just one other comment about antioxidants. Lots of foods have them but in varying degree, as was noted with different honeys. And with any food, you have to measure the good with the bad. When you stack honey up against something like green tea, I would favor the tea since it can be, and usually is, just the tea and water. So you have nearly complete benefit with no drawbacks, while honey adds calories and sugars which can be both good and bad. As Jim noted, you are getting into a tangled web with honey since it is a lot like the teas. Some have lots and some have little. Same with honey (as was noted, the dark honeys have more). Plus some antioxidants work better than others. My guess is that the typical light honey sold in stores would be low in antioxidants, and since it is the most prevalent, the antioxidant health battle is lost from the start. Bill Truesdell Bath, Me ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 06:31:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aleksander Mihajlovski Subject: Antioxidant Claims For Honey Try this recipe: Take one apple and cut it into slices. Take different kinds of honey - dark and lite, honey from this year, last year or year before. Put an apple slice in every type of honey immediately (must be completely covered with honey). Leave one slice on the open air, as a control. Depending of the sort of apple, visible oxidation should start in few seconds - colour of the apple should start to change. Live all samples in the dark place and come again after one week. I find that MY really dark honey from 1999 had lot less antioxidant properties ("per se"), than last year light coloured honey (2000). Strongest antioxidant honey was been my freshest (red-coloured) honey. I find difference between my raw honey and honey which has been heated (decrystallizated). "Best" honey actually dry out the apple slice, but it doesn't lose/change a colour much. My opinion is that these experiment could be used as marketing tool at beekeeping exhibitions, for explaining different or bigger prices. Aleksandar Mihajlovski ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 10:22:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Gifts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris said: > There was some concern that Heifer donations intended for > beekeeping purposes may actually end up in a "general fund". Those concerns were completely unfounded. Depending upon what one designates when making a donation, one can be very specific, even selecting a specific project, and hence a destination area for one's gift of bees (or whatever). Heifer is not misleading people and using money designed for specific purposes in other ways. There is simply too much need out there. I first heard of Heifer when I was given a "gift of a hive of bees" by my sister a few years ago. The info package included a very detailed description of the area where the bees were sent, and a detailed rationale of why bees were a good (excuse the pun) cash cow for their local terrain and needs. I serve on my church charity committee, and we requested detailed information from Heifer, as their programs are a very clean implementation of "teach a man to fish...". They are 100% legit, and do lots of onsite follow-up training on care and proper utilization of the gifts. Audits are done to insure that the animals are successful. In other words, they would know if a gift of a few goats resulted in a Bar-B-Q. Monies are clearly pooled by animal type and project. Our church wanted to optimize the "bang for buck", and requested a statement from Heifer as to what projects/animals had needs that exceeded known funds. Heifer sent a very large, detailed spreadsheet on each project. Heifer's website also addresses these concerns: http://www.heifer.org/about_hpi/faq.htm#14 How can I track my gift animal? Many people want to know where their gift animals were sent. The receipt letter Heifer sends you will indicate the project or animal for which your donation has been designated. In order to use donations to help the greatest number of needy people and to respect the dignity of our project participants, we do not track specific animals for donors. Heifer monitors each family that receives an animal as part of our routine accountability process. If you wish to designate your contribution for a specific project, Heifer publishes "Project Profiles," an annual publications that lists all the current places to which animals are being provided. You may request a copy by calling Heifer Donor Services at 1-800-422-0474. To designate your gift, simply include the project number with your contribution. General or "undesignated" Heifer donor gifts are pooled and sent to projects where funds are most needed What is included in Heifer's animal prices? The prices listed for Heifer animals include the cost of purchasing and transporting quality animals and the training and support services Heifer provides project partners jim ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 13:05:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: State Inspection Programs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I thought I would add my two cents worth. As I think Aaron has all ready reported, here in NYS budget cuts eliminat= ed our inspection program about 8 years ago. It was put back in on a lim= ited scale (migratory beekeepers only) three years ago, and beginning in = 2001 the Dept. of Ag. and Markets found some money to greatly expand the = program. However, implementation was limited because: 1. There is no mandatory yard or hive registration in NYS. The "lists" = the inspectors had to work with were 8 years old and almost worthless. 2. It was not possible to attract and keep a sufficient number of skille= d beekeepers as inspectors. The purpose of the inspection program (by law or regulation, I am not cer= tain which) is to look for and control disease. Most specifically, AFB. = The State would undoubtley like to expand that charter to include "helpi= ng" beekeepers be better beekeepers, especially hobbyists. Some inspecto= rs are more than well qualified to do so. Others give out advice that is= scary. Some inspectors really enjoy being beekeepers and helping others= . To others, being an inspector is a "job", complete with medical benefi= ts and unemployment insurance during the winter. While I realize that for a time in the 40's and 50's it seemed that AFB m= ight shut down American beekeeping, I don't know how anyone got the idea= that telling beekeepers they had AFB, and seeing the hives destroyed (wh= ich is required in NYS) would limit the incidence of AFB. When was the l= ast time any Government Program truly helped the beekeeping industry? Ba= sed on 2001 inspection data, it appears that AFB incidence has increased = from around 1%-2% 10 years ago to 5%-6%. Moreover, 10 years ago AFB inci= dence was much lower among commercial beekeepers than hobbyists. This wa= s widely attributed to the prophylactic use of terramyicin by commercial = beekeepers and it was assumed that hobbyists were not so treating. In 20= 01 the incidence of AFB is about the same among commercial beekeepers as = hobbyists. Moreover, in 2001 we have widespread ABF resistance to terram= yicin. =20 So, as taxpayers we have spent a bunch of money to learn this. What use = is this information? The only use I can think of is that we can use the = documented resistance to push the FDA to authorize other treatments. So,= we need one government program in our lives to help us manage another go= vernment program? I don't lack for an opinion about inspection programs and it is...get rid= of them. Put in their place a real Extension Program, largely run by vo= lunteers (as are most all Extension Programs), but with the paid staff th= at is necessary to support those volunteers. Have the Extension Program = provide advice to hobbyists, sideliners and commercial beekeepers, as the= y do to gardeners, small farmers, large farmers, and ranchers. Those ins= pectors that know beekeeping and share excitement and satisfaction from h= elping others will find meaningful compensation within the Extension Prog= ram, by helping and directing the volunteers. Limit Government Programs = to human safety issues...and tread carefully even there. =20 Lloyd email to LloydSpear@rossrounds.com http://www.rossrounds.com Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturer of round comb honey equipment and Sundance pollen traps ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 12:30:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Feeders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 For some time, I have been hesitant to post messages to Bee-L because of = difficulties that have resulted in my messages being hard to read. With t= he help of Allen Dick, I have discovered a work-around to eliminate those= difficulties, so will share some thoughts on types of feeders and state = inspection programs. To reduce the lengths of the messages, I will do thi= s separately. I have made extensive use of three of the types of feeders previously dis= cussed, and my thoughts are: Not much can beat a glass gallon jar upside down with holes in the lid. H= owever, if one is going to put this directly on the top bars or over the = inner cover hole, a surrounding deep is required to prevent wind, raccoon= s, etc. from tipping it over. A further disadvantage is that a single gal= lon of syrup is not much good for anything. Two to four gallons is really= necessary for either feeding or drawing foundation. That means at least = two trips to refill. A better idea is to use a hole saw to cut a hole in the inner cover so th= at the neck of the gallon jar can sit down inside. This will prevent wind= and raccoons from easily tipping it over. (I=E2=80=99ve done this with h= undreds of jars and have never had one tip over.) Moreover, holes for up = to 4-gallon jars will fit; meaning that only one trip with syrup is ever = likely to be necessary. If you do this, a surrounding deep is not necessa= ry. Even the amount of rain entering the hive from a thunderstorm will no= t hurt the bees. Just put the outer cover beside the hive and replace it = when feeding is complete. The only disadvantage is that if you need a lot of gallon jars they can b= e hard to store in the off season. But that is a small disadvantage, espe= cially to someone who can get the jars free. (Try restaurants that serve = pickles or bars that use maraschino cherries in mixed drinks.) I don=E2=80=99t like to see beginners feeding with 2 or 3 gallon pails as= that much syrup in one pail seems to quickly get moldy and go off taste=E2= =80=A6so it is wasted. Frame feeders are just "ok". I have a couple of hundred, but have mostly = stopped using them. No floats really work, as wax and propolis quickly ke= ep the floats from doing their job, which is reducing the number of bees = that drown. They only hold about 3 quarts so must be frequently refilled.= During the discussion, one respondent said that bees will fill them with= comb and considered that a disadvantage. IMHO, that is an advantage, as = the comb will substantially reduce the number of bees that drown. =20 Use frame feeders only if nothing else is available. "Miller-type" hive top feeders are, IMHO, the best of all. Kelley (800-23= 3-2899) offers them unassembled for $15.50, which as to be one of greates= t bargains available to beekeepers (Cat. # 12). However, the glue they su= pply will not waterproof well. Use GE bathtub Silicone on all inside corn= ers and joints. Paint inside and outside with two coats of very high pain= t. These feeders are exactly the length and width of a Langstroth hive and s= it on top of the highest hive body. The bees come up into them through a = slot in the bottom and take the syrup through an 8-mesh screen. Bees cannot come in contact with the syrup, so cannot drown. The feeders = hold about 3 gallons each. Put directly on top of the hive (with or witho= ut the inner cover underneath) and put the outer cover on top of the feed= er. This tool will last a lifetime. Use it and enjoy. Lloyd email to LloydSpear@rossrounds.com http://www.rossrounds.com Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturer of round comb honey equipment and Sundance pollen traps ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 00:09:52 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Doug Henry Subject: Re: Feeders In-Reply-To: <200112300416.fBU4GkG17842@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd, thank you for your thoughtful insight on the various type of feeders. I concur with your assessment that the Miller-type is the most efficient and effective. However I have found with my limited operation of 15 hives that it does not seem to work well in cold spring weather when bees seem to lack the vigour to make the trip up through the slot; perhaps due to low population and subsequent lack of warmth. My observations are that the Miller is unbeatable for fall feeding when the hive is strong whereas the inverted container combined with the protective shelter of an extra super seems to be best in the spring. Regards Doug Henry Lockport Manitoba --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.310 / Virus Database: 171 - Release Date: 12/19/01 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 06:33:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Antioxidants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The test using apple slices to demonstrate the antioxidant properties of different honeys is not a good test of an antioxidants effect in the body. The apple test shows the apples reaction with oxygen, and it may not be that good since you are coating the apple and may seal it from the air. So you may be demonstrating the sealing qualities of different honeys. And there may be different chemical reactions taking place depending on the honey. But the main problem is it does not show what happens in the body. The chemical term antioxidant refers to a participant in an oxidation/reduction reaction. In the body it specifically refers to reactions with free radicals, which are molecules with unpaired electrons. An oxidation reaction does not necessarily have to have oxygen as a part of the reaction. Only an agent that accepts electrons from the antioxidant. Different antioxidants react differently with these molecules. For example, "vitamin E and beta carotene appear to protect cell membranes; vitamin C remove free radicals from inside the cell" (from the Columbia encyclopedia). So even though something may be an antioxidant, its effect in the body may be effective in one area but not in others or not effective at all in regard to health. (Proteins, one of the molecules that you are dealing with, are exceptionally complex and their chemistry is also complex. Plus there are many in the body that science has no idea what they do. Science is attempting to get the protein sequences as they did with human DNA and it is a thousand fold more difficult, and that may be an understatement. Think a tangled string of Christmas lights. From the tree at Rockefeller Center.) Plus, different foods have different amounts of antioxidants. Antioxidants are generally not needed by most, since the body produces its own, until you get older. Then everything starts to break down. Bill Truesdell - Who knows he is getting old since I continually have to look behind me to see what dropped off. Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 07:41:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: State Inspection Programs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd Spear wrote: > I don't lack for an opinion about inspection programs and it is...get rid= > of them. Put in their place a real Extension Program, largely run by vo= > lunteers (as are most all Extension Programs), but with the paid staff th= > at is necessary to support those volunteers. Have the Extension Program = > provide advice to hobbyists, sideliners and commercial beekeepers, as the= > y do to gardeners, small farmers, large farmers, and ranchers. Those ins= > pectors that know beekeeping and share excitement and satisfaction from h= > elping others will find meaningful compensation within the Extension Prog= > ram, by helping and directing the volunteers. Limit Government Programs = > to human safety issues...and tread carefully even there. =20 Lloyd, Boy, do I disagree. Probably because we have the best Bee Inspector in the US here in Maine. I would not think of shifting it to the extension agents nor to "qualified" volunteers since they are few and far between. And it would only dilute attention to beekeeping since there are thousands of gardeners after the agents time compared to one beekeeper. With State budgets the way they are, do not expect any extension agent to be more qualified in beekeeping than the semi informed hobbyist he helps. And there will no visits, since most work by the agent is done by phone, unless you are a large farmer and have clout. BTW. When I started keeping bees, that same inspector's first visit to my newly bought (through another beekeeper) hives resulted in burning the lot since they were infected with AFB. And the beekeeper I bought them through would have been looked on by most, including me at the time, as qualified and a great candidate for the extension office. Which might be why we went to State Inspectors in the first place. Bill Truesdell Bath, Me ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 10:07:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Feeders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd Spear commented on feeders: > Not much can beat a glass gallon jar upside down with holes in the lid. I have a problem with glass - one must handle it like, ummm... glass. The plastic bucket type feeders sold by Mann Lake (and others) work great, are easy to sterilize, and are stackable. One can buy a 1 Gallon ($4.25 each) and a 3.1 Gallon size $6.95 ea). See them here: http://www.mannlakeltd.com/catalog/page28.htm They can sit directly on the frames or on the inner cover. Store them for winter in the basement, as exposure to extreme cold can make the lid rims brittle over time (it would be nice to see a heavier-gauge plastic used). > Try restaurants that serve pickles or bars that use maraschino cherries in mixed drinks.) Mind the pickle containers. I got a few 5-gallon plastic pickle pails from a friend who owns a restaurant, but I ended up using them in the greenhouse. No matter what I did, the smell of pickles remained. I get new food-grade 5-gallon plastic pails with gaskets (which is my standard unit for storage and handling of honey, as a 55-gallon drum of honey weighs much more than I do) at a restaurant supply house for about $2.50 each, cheaper than the beekeeping supply houses. I built a few 5-gallon pail feeder bucket by using a hole saw to drill 4 holes in the top center, and then super-gluing screen mesh inserts intended for kitchen faucets over the holes. (Glue the mesh to the INSIDE surface of the cover). They work, but the resulting feeder is larger than practical, and is only used for feeding hives that are in serious need and deployed far from home. Rather than carrying buckets from vehicle to hives, I use a little red wagon to which I have added fat "off road" tires intended for a riding lawn mower's trailer. (I may look silly pulling a little red wagon, but it keeps everything I might need close at hand.) > "Miller-type" hive top feeders are, IMHO, the best of all. In my view, these feeders are bulky, heavy, expensive, high-maintenance, and must be filled when on the hive, which requires a hose and tank, or a bucket and some lugging/pouring. jim farmageddon ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 09:44:52 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael palmer Subject: Re: Feeders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd Spear wrote: > Not much can beat a glass gallon jar upside down with holes in the lid. H= > owever, if one is going to put this directly on the top bars or over the = > inner cover hole, a surrounding deep is required to prevent wind, raccoon= > s, etc. from tipping it over. A further disadvantage is that a single gal= > lon of syrup is not much good for anything. Two to four gallons is really= > necessary for either feeding or drawing foundation. That means at least = > two trips to refill. I much prefer new gallon paint cans. They don't break if you drop them, and they aren't "tippy" when on the hive. If you buy "coated" cans, they will never rust on the inside. You can feed up to 5 gallons at a time. Great for fall feeding. I place them on thin shims to keep the lid a bee space off the top bars. Since I don't want to cut my inner covers full of holes, I do use an empty hive body to surround the cans. In cold weather,with the cans on the frames, the bees cluster around the cans, warming the syrup. The bees will take down 5 gallons in two or three days. I feed HFCS. If the feeders are above the inner cover, exposed to the elements, the syrup will often crystalize before the bees can take it down. I tried jars at one time, early on in my beekeeping. I had trouble finding enough jars, and I found them way too hard to handle. I agree that hive top feeders work well, but they are too expensive for me. I have found that they don't work well in cold weather. A real drawback if you are trying to get your colonies fed for winter, and the cold weather comes on early. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 23:36:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dan McFeeley Subject: Re: Radicals and honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Lee Gollihugh wrote: >>Dan McFeeley asked: ... antioxidant actions, ... Has this been written up >>in the literature? Thanks in advance! > >Try the National Honey Board's web site. Put in nhb - and push enter. >Its there some where. Good luck on your research. Please share it with >those of us on this site, please? Thanks for the pointer -- I took a look and found a press release at the site. My interest on this subject is related to mead and meadmaking so it may be a little off topic for this group. Briefly, phenolics are an important factor in winemaking, and it's possible that identifying phenolics found in honey could also indicate oenological properties relevant to meadmaking. I've got other stuff in the works on topics on mead, at least one article ready to publish and others still in process. Once I get some of this out there, I can keep folks on the list posted. With at least 30 plus meaderies open since about 1989 and more coming (there have always been small farm wineries that sell mead, but these are facilities dedicated to mead alone), mead will become a stronger market niche for beekeepers in the future. As it is, not enough home meadmakers are aware that the best meads are made with raw, unfiltered, unblended honeys direct from a beekeeper. You get better character and complexity in a well made mead using these honeys. One way of reaching homebrewers and home meadmakers might be contacting local homebrew or winemaking supply shops and letting them know what honeys you have available. Something interesting I've noticed in the literature on meadmaking is a parallel of sorts with winemaking. It's been noted that much of the method and technique in U.S. winemaking during the 1970's was strongly influenced by a pervasive image of the grape as a deficit of sorts, something delicate that had to be "rescued" by technology. It was an overcontrol and the wines had a characteristic flavor as a result, generally one dimensional with little subtleness to them. That image of the grape began to change when varietal grapes and viticulture gained more importance, and the wines changed also. Now, the grape is recognized as a unique biological product in itself, with maybe some of the Old World approach taking a stronger role. Here, the idea is that a great wine "makes itself," and many times the best thing the winemaker can do is simply stand aside. It's an image of the grape as a positive, not something weak and deficient, needing the aid and assistance of the winemaker. A very similar thing is going on in meadmaking, however, meadmaking has not kept pace with the changes in winemaking. Honey is dominanted by a similar deficit image from the 1960's and 1970's, something needing the strong control of technology by the meadmaker in order to produce good meads. Many meadmakers as a result boil the honey must, use way too much sulfites and additives, all in an effort to "rescue" the fermentation. A positive image of honey, recognizing how unique it is, widely variable in composition and flavor character, is still lacking overall in meadmaking. <><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Dan McFeeley mcfeeley@keynet.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 22:27:07 -0600 Reply-To: Bob & Pat Fanning Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob & Pat Fanning Subject: Beekeeping classes in North Alabama. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Madison County, Alabama Beekeepers Association's next annual "Practical Beekeeping" class will start January 8, 2002. This is a 9 month class that starts in the class room and ends in the apiary with honey harvest and fall medication. If interested, contact Bob Fanning at k4vb@hiwaay.net or www.alabees.com" for details. Huntsville, Alabama USA President Madison County Beekeepers Association (ALA. USA) See Our WebPages at www.alabees.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:07:27 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Feeders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a few comments on feeders. There is a feeder like the Man Lake bucket available here that is used by many. You buy it filled with ready made bee feed and just remove a tape over the holes in the lid and turn it upside down on the hive inside an empty super. Many are using what I believe is what you call Miller type feeder. That's my preference since many years. The feeder is made from high density styrofoam, same as the rest of my hives. It holds up to 30 liters, that's more than I ever is going to need. When taking the last honey off the hives they get the feeder and syrup. The feeder is then left on the hive until I come back in spring with the first super. No need to go to the hives an extra time to bring all feeders home, this way I also save some space in the storage shed when the feeders goes in as the supers goes out. And the feeders will serve as an extra insulation during winter. If there would be a cold spring and some hives need extra feed during build up I have the feeders there already. In 97 a beekeeper here made a small test. He compared the bucket type feeder with Miller type feeder. 20 hives that had behaved equally during summer, had the same queen mother and were same strength were used in the test. 10 of them got the bucket feeders, and the other 10 got home made Miller type feeders (plywood). The bees needed 3 to 4 days to empty the Miller type feeders, and about a month for the buckets. (the buckets used here might have fewer holes-smaller feed area than Mann Lake type) When opening all hives after feeding and count the amount of bees in them he found an interesting result. In the hives that had taken the feed down fast there was 5-10% less bees after feeding. In the hives with buckets that needed a month there was 40-60% reduction in the bee numbers! The conclusion from this is that it's necessary to cut feeding time down by having a large area where the bees get access to the feed. You can see some pictures of the finnish made hive parts on this link, including feeder: http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/temp/jussi.htm A take the opportunity to wish you all a Sticky New Year...... -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:36:28 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Feeders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for your remarks and the fine pictures. The important concept here is that the bees are warm enough (over 50°F) to leave a cluster and "travel" up to the syrup. Can you use this feeder on a hive with a screened bottom board in the winter rather than a standard bottom board? Happy New Year George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:12:13 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Stevens Subject: polystyrene miller-type feeder. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to convey my limited experience in the Northeastern U.S. with the Swedish polystyrene miller type feeder that Mr. Gustafson referred to in his email. We have used several for a season and a half, both on wooden and polystyrene hives. We first started two new packages in polystyrene hives with new, unwaxed Pierco Frames. , one with the Miller feeder and one with the two gallon pail feeder on the 21st of April. The bees took about twice as much feed from the miller feeder as they did from the pail feeder and started drawing the ninth and tenth frame about ten days earlier. I doubt that the results would have been as different had the bees been in wooden hives. The nights in late April and early May are almost all below freezing here and the cluster would be much tighter in a wooden hive, although as Mr. Gustafson indicates, the feeder serves as an insulated top. This fall we used the polystyrene feeders to add a second story of empty drawn comb to some one story hives in late October. The hives took down about 60 lbs. of high fructose corn syrup by December 1. The interesting thing about the feeders is that there were still bees feeding in the polystyrene feeder when the early morning temperature was down to 15f. Next Spring, we will see if the same thing is true in early Spring. Personally, the idea of having a feeder that doubles as a winter top insulation device really appeals to me. No more hauling pails back and forth and washing them. We did however remove the Plexiglas cover on the feeding area of the feeder before winter. We reasoned that although the polystyrene will let moisture pass, the moisture would take the path of least resistance through the hole under the Plexiglas feeding plate. It would then hit the Plexiglas and condense on the front of the top bars. Mr. Gustafson might want to comment on whether he does this or not to his feeders before winter. We sold about 500 of these feeders in the U.S. and would appreciate feedback from other users. They are certainly more expensive than pail feeders, but if handled carefully, they should never leak because they are one-piece molded and should pay for themselves in a year or two in decreased labor costs and better wintering and thus stronger hives and more honey production Incidentally, the package hive that we used it on in April produced a whole medium more than the one fed with the pail feeder. For Sale, 500 dirty two gallon pail feeders, cheap! We will not be importing the Swedish feeder this year. It is designed to fit the polystyrene hive, and although it could still be used on the wooden hives with no problem, the wooden telescope covers had to sit on top rather then over the feeder. The new BEEMAX feeder will be out in early March and will be sized for the wooden hives, although, of course, it can still be used on polystyrene hives. Happy New Year Bob Stevens ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:44:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: lloydspear Subject: Styrofoam feeders Bob Stevens and Per Osvald Gustafsson both have pointed out the advantages of the Styrofoam "Miller-Type" feeders. I was remiss in not doing so. This is an instance where the plastic product is far superior to the wood. (If only I did not have 75 or so made from wood!) By all means buy all you can afford; one will be sufficient for most all hobbyists. However, please do paint them. They will deteriorate from exposure to sunlight, and are too expensive to have break down. If you paint the inside as well you will find they are a snap to clean, without using bleach. Use any high grade oil or water based outdoor paint. Even though it is not food grade it will not hurt your bees (I have done this). Presumably because our wonderful government agencies are worried about the possibility of kids eating houses! (Or, maybe, they are worried about woodpeckers?) It sounds as if Bob is planning on making these in the US. If so, the cost might come way down...then maybe I will get a chance to replace my wooden ones. Call Betterbee (no relation to me) 800-632-3379. Lloyd email to LloydSpear@rossrounds.com Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturer of round comb honey equipment and Sundance pollen traps