From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 07:44:15 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-89.7 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Delivered-To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C813A4908B for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SCLoXn010061 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:38 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0206A" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Message-ID: Content-Length: 83681 Lines: 1960 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 23:55:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Queen still in her cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >..... good success directly releasing and using B-Healthy in sugar sirup sprayed on the queen..... Anyone else heard of this or tried it? Hi Tim: The May issue of American Bee Journal mentions this in the article ‘Organic Treatment IPM for Honey Bee Mites’. The authors write that spraying brood frames and queen cage with a mist of sugar syrup containing Honey-B-Healthy allows for direct release. The claim is that bees accept the queen immediately. They go on to say they’ve had no problems introducing Russian queens this way. Regards, Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 00:18:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Snelgrove meets Killion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> I am currently experimenting combining Snelgrove swarm control with >> Killion methods for comb honey production. > Could you explain briefly how you are doing this ... Hi Clay, I was wondering if anyone would ask. Well, a problem with the Killion method is what to do with the box that you've shaken the bees out of. He suggests slapping multiple shaken brood chambers together to make a hive of 3 or 4 deeps, leaving that alone through the season to deal with at the end of the summer. Instead, I've been shaking the bees into a single deep, adding the comb supers, putting a Snelgrove board (SgB) on top of the comb super and then the shaken brood chamber on top of that. Rather than shaking through the bottom deep two more times as Killion instructs, I'm experimenting with introducing a new queen into the top deep on the same day that I shake all the bees into the bottom. Then when the queen is released and accepted in the top, I'll switch the two boxes. I figure the queen introduction in the top chamber will go well, as most of the bees will be in the bottom deep, and the remaining bees will be young nurse bees willing to accept a new queen. The original queen is initially in the bottom brood chamber, and she gets moved when I switch the boxes. After the swap, the bottom box will have a new queen and most of the field force. I will have quickly set up a 2-queen hive. I am not sure how things will go when I switch top and bottom deeps. It's possible that the new queen will be "deposed" by the multitudinous population in the bottom deep. Snelgrove's writings say the hive smells mix through the double screen and he claims that the bees mix amicably, but I have noticed occasional problems in the past with queens disappearing when the populations mix. So that's my experiment. I can't say as I recommend this method, but I'm giving it a shot. Another thing to be wary of is having field bees return above your comb honey supers. This will happen if you follow Snelgrove's method of closing the top door and opening the bottom door to transfer the top field force to the bottom hive. When you open the bottom door the field bees will enter at the top of your comb super, and when they do so they will put pollen in with the comb sections! I once described a problem with pollen in my comb honey, and Andy Nachbar diagnosed the problem without having to ask any of the details. He was a great beekeeper! Anyway, if the bees return above the comb super, they'll put pollen in the sections. I'm addressing this by using a wood bound queen excluder into which I notch entrances that correspond to the bottom door. When I close the top door, I open the notch in the queen excluder. It confuses the bees at first, but eventually they find the new entrance and adjust accordingly. The top field force gets transferred to the bottom brood chamber and the bees enter below the comb supers. Hopefully no pollen in the comb sections. I'm also running comb production hives strictly by the Killion method. It's a lot of work, but the results are fantastic. I'm experimenting as described looking for an easier way. If you try this method and it works for you, I take full credit. On the other hand if things go horribly wrong, I deny everything! Aaron Morris - I think, perhaps too much! PS: Read the old masters! Killion, Snelgrove, CC Miller, Doolittle, the list goes on and on. Much has changed in keeping bees. Much has not! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 15:44:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Coleene Davidson Subject: Field bees vs Nurse Bees Comments: To: Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, irishbeekeeping@yahoogroups.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I have a question-If a hive with a small number of bees has sufficient stores-pollen and honey, to feed brood, will transition to forraging be surpressed to meet the needs of the brood because of the total number of bees? Coleene ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:28:15 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home sweet home Subject: Drone methode MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a beekeeper send my: "drone methode in indonesian language" home od the dronemethode files: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/DarreOverz.html with all regards, ;-) jan -- Met vriendelijke groet, -- Jan Jan Tempelman Annie Romein Verschoorpad 2-4 NL 4103 VE Culemborg telef.: 06 10719917 -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 17:18:10 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: J J Harrier Subject: Re: CARNIOLANS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try this trick - before you open the hive, move it to another position in the apiary, and leave a box with a few frames in on the old site to collect the flying bees. Then leave it a while before opening the hive. The more agressive bees ought to be in the spare box, with any luck! You'll have less bees to look through and less aggro too. > > Requeening was my first thought, however, this hive is HUGE. There is no > > way to find the queen with the current population. > > > > The colony has been agressive since the first time I opened it several > > weeks ago. It was very populated at that time. J. J. Herts, UK EJOG UNNI ~~~ "I often have the feeling that one or other of us must be constructed inside out." Ted Hooper ~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 16:58:37 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: J J Harrier Subject: Re: Double screen divider thingie... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > 1. Does it work in practice? > > Yes. Though labor intensive if used like Snelgrove designed it. Having read in Hooper about the use of the Snelgrove board, we decided it sounded too complicated, and we've usually used the 2-hives-close-together method of artificial swarming, also described there, with the swapping of hive positions. This has generally been successful, even when boxes haven't been moved quite on cue. Of course, if you don't have spare equipment, it's not so easy. J. J. Herts, UK EJOG UNNI ~~~ "I often have the feeling that one or other of us must be constructed inside out." Ted Hooper ~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 14:59:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Queen still in her cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tim, the product is Honey-B-Healthy, advertised in Bee Culture. It is spearmint plus lemongrass oil compounded to be soluable in syrup. Once when I didn't have time to use my usual Thurber Long Cage method of introduction, I sprayed the queen and surrounding bees with H-B-H in syrup and the direct introductin worked just fine. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 20:25:18 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael palmer Subject: Re: Finding the queen (was CARNIOLANS) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst wrote: > RE: finding the queen by straining the bees thru and excluder I won the EAS gadget award for this in 1988 is South Hadley, Massachusetts. > > > I use this method a lot when re-queening. In fact, I have a dedicated > super for it. It works better if the super is brand new. The bees > tend to cling to to the sides of an old one, as it may have bits of > comb or propolis on the inside. Place a strip of duct tape along the inside top of your shaker box. That seems to stop many of the bees that want to get out. I wonder how vaseline would work. > Some > hives go more easily than others, some seem to want to move up rather > than down. I find this especially true on hot humid days. On those days, work early in the day. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 20:41:52 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael palmer Subject: Re: Finding the queen (was CARNIOLANS) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rodney Farrar wrote: > Any more details on How you do this? Do you shake the bees off down in the > box and use smoke to make them go through the excluder? How do you keep the > in the super box without flying out? Take the colony down to the bottom box. Leave it on the bottom board. Place the other boxes on upturned inner covers. Remove all the frames from the bottom box, and lean them against one of the others. Dump all the bees out of the bottom box/bottom board. Scrape the box, especially the frame rest. Place the shaker box on the bottom box, leaving a 3" opening at one side. Pick up the first frame, and shake the bees into the shaker box. Place this frame into the 3" opening, and shove it under the excluder. Repeat this with all 9 or 10 frames. Slide the shaker box back over the bottom. With very light smoke across the top of the shaker box, the bees will go down. Sometimes, if they want to boil over, scrape the sides of the shaker box with your hive tool, knocking the bees back down onto the excluder. Shake the bees out of the other boxes into the shaker box. The queen will be in the shaker box. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 11:50:06 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Field bees vs Nurse Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Collen & all > will transition to forraging be surpressed to meet > the needs of the brood because of the total number of bees? I would not use the term suppressed, but a larger percentage of a small colony ends up looking after brood, rather than foraging. This is the main reason why larger colonies gather disproportionaly larger crops. Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 21:38:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dee Lusby Subject: Plastic 4.9 foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi to all on BEE-L This is to let you know that plastic 4.9mm foundation is now a reality. More information will be coming shortly. Sincerely, Dee A. Lusby __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 02:38:02 -0400 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Field bees vs Nurse Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If a hive with a small number of bees has sufficient stores-pollen > and honey, to feed brood, will transition to foraging be suppressed > to meet the needs of the brood because of the total number of bees? By "suppressed" I assume you mean delayed, for specific individual bees sufficient to care for the larvae and brood, but never completely suppressed. There are a number of trade-offs going on in a colony all the time that make a "yes/no" answer to the question impossible. (These are not really "decisions" as much as they are the net outcome of the seemingly random efforts of the bees in any one colony). If someone insisted on a one-word answer, I'd lean more towards "no" than "yes", for the following reasons: If nothing else, some number of foragers will be gathering water whenever possible, even if abundant stores of honey and pollen exist. This must happen, even if water-gathering means that eggs, larvae, and brood go untended, and die. Future bees cannot take priority over current bees, since the brood certainly dies if most of the nurse bees die of dehydration. (Water may be a special case, simply because it is not stored by bees for "long-term storage".) The question might be rephrased as "Is nectar more "labor intensive" than honey to use in preparation of food for larvae and worker bees?" To use honey, they must uncap cells, and dilute the honey with water, but the water itself must be available and gathered. To use nectar, forager bees must gather the nectar. Clearly, if new nectar is not coming in, and there are no uncapped cells of nectar to use, the bees will start uncapping sealed honey. Given all the effort required to evaporate nectar into honey, I'd conclude that nectar would be "preferred" over honey in all cases where there is a choice between the two. Use of nectar reduces demand for water, which is an added plus for nectar. Colonies never really stop foraging, as long as flight is possible. Some foragers fly sorties to "unexplored" areas in hope of finding better sources of nectar and pollen even when excellent sources have been found and are being exploited by other foragers. (The "best" nectar source could dry up in a matter of hours, since some of the best nectar plants provide nectar only at specific times of day and temps, so the effect of such apparently wasteful searching is to "hedge the colony's bets", and allow foraging efforts to be refocused in a very nimble manner when a good source "dries up".) Tom Seeley wrote an entire book that goes into great detail on foraging issues for several chapters. "The Wisdom of the Hive" is the title, and it is worth every penny of the steep price charged. http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/SEEWIS.html Sorry to make the issue so complex, but it really is complex. All these sorts of questions are multi-variable problems, and the number of appropriate variables to consider change with the season and current weather. jim ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 08:07:05 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: Snelgrove meets Killion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris writes: <> I haven't read Killion (you're right about Snelgrove being worth reading, incidentally), and I'm not sure I've understood you right. You say you shake the bees out of the box, then put it above a Snelgrove board. That presumably leaves you with a broodbox with no bees in it, but getting the rising heat from the bees below. How much of the brood survives the experience? Regards, Robert Brenchley RSBrenchley@aol.com Birmingham UK ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 11:10:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis' Subject: Re: Snelgrove meets Killion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Robert, > I haven't read Killion Got to get that one Robert as his method produces very good sections, some of the best. You say you shake > the bees out of the box, Yes Robert. In Killions method you build the bees up into as may brood boxes as possible. Just before the major flow the bees are shaken down to a single to crowd them adding the sections. Swarm control is done similtaniously. The brood is then set off behind the parent on its own stand. What Aaron did was place it over a SgB. Allow a queen to mate or a purchased queen. Then switch the bottom with the top box. > leaves you with a broodbox with no bees in it, I always shake back a few frames to care for the brood. Also this is done usually in good weather. I'm going to shook swarm onto some 4.9 foundation and then add a few sections. Then maybe combine with other 4.9 colonies later. I think I'll try Aaron's snelgrove/ Killion method in the future as sections sell very well here and seems like a sound plan. Clay ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 16:20:12 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: a couple of plugs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All I realise that Ireland is a long way away from many BEE-L correspondants, but The moderators usually allow some minor plugging of beekeeping events and conferences. This is a shameless plug for the forthcoming conference and series of lectures at Gormanston in Eire. This is run by The Federation of Irish Beekeepers, and I fear that their promotion of the event is a little too modest... http://www.irishbeekeeping.ie will provide more details. I have nothing to do with the event apart from as a participating beekeeper, but I can recommend it wholeheartedly to anyone at any level of beekeeping experiance (and cold Guinness tastes best in Ireland). This is a much more massive and important event than most will realise, with around 250 beekeepers attending. Keith Delaplane will be giving a series of lectures over the six day period, he will be supported by dozens of other lecturers and demonstrators, that will deliver more than 50 lectures, workshops and seminars. You can study for, and take, examinations in all levels of beekeeping and gain recognised qualifications. This leads me to my second plug... Last year, one of the candidates for the highest level, lectureship, qualification was Sr. Catherine (a well known Irish beekeeper) her subject posed the question " can we interest young people in beekeeping?" I was impressed by her conviction and approach and I resolved to add a page or so to my website to describe and promote her ideas. The page or so has turned out to be nearer a dozen, but I think her ideas can be built on to provide a basis by which we can encourage more young blood into beekeeping. The URL is http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/involvekids.html I hope you will enjoy reading it as much as I have enjoyed putting it together. Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 18:09:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Lipscomb Subject: Strange beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit While inspecting a nuc hive I found that it contained two or three beetles of a type I have never seen in a colony before. The last time I found a number of unknown beetles in a hive it turned out to be the SHB I thought I might see if anyone has seen something like this before. I will try and get some pictures posted when I get a chance. The beetle is about the size of a worker. It is dark brown with yellow flecks on its back. In the sun it looked like the beetle may have had a metalic blue (kind of like oil on water) coloring. I am located near Tampa Florida but have never seen a beetle like this. Any thoughts? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 20:36:37 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Edward D Heinlein Subject: Re: Requesting some re queening advice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, I recently discovered that one of my hives has become queen less. On previous inspections, there had been larvae and capped brood. I failed to notice the lack of eggs, however. (Lesson learned)Now, all that remain are a few clusters of capped drones, which are hatching out.......I suspect they'll all be out in the next couple of days. If my calculations are correct, the queen has probably been gone for a minimum of 3 weeks, maybe even 4. The workers (of which there is an abundance) are filling every nook and cranny with pollen and nectar (which is making for very few available cells in which to lay eggs. I have found a few open queen cups (not cells), and they are empty. I have a new queen on the way. Here are my concerns: 1.) Since there are no eggs, can I safely assume there is no other queen in residence? 2.) Since there are no eggs, can I safely assume there is no laying worker in residence? 3.) If the hive has been queen less for at least 3 weeks, can I place the new queen (in her cage and plugged with candy) in the hive and have a reasonable expectation that they will be glad to see her, and accept her with minimal or no animosity? 4.) The youngest bees, in the queen less hive, are now probably a minimum of 1-2 weeks old. Would it be wise to add some brood or young bees, from one of my other hives, to the queen less hive, along with the new queen when she arrives? 5.) I was going to put the queen in a body with foundation (I don't have any extra drawn comb) above the honey supers, and top it off with my gallon jar feeder of syrup. My logic here is 1.) To entice workers up for the syrup. 2.)Add to the apparent natural nectar flow to stimulate wax production and comb construction. 3.) Take advantage of the rising heat from the mass of bees below. 4.)Let the current workers continue to pack in the pollen and nectar down below, until the new queen gets established, after which I'd move the brood chamber to the bottom. Any comments on this strategy? I would appreciate any advice or shared experiences on this situation. Thanks in advance to all willing to offer. Ed Heinlein Helena, MT ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:43:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David or Wendy DesAutels Subject: Old Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am a brand new beekeeper in Northern Michigan. Got two active hives = last year mid-summer from friends who were moving. The hives had not = been tended in well over a year so I had no idea about where queens = were/how old they were, etc... Neither hive made it through the winter. Pretty sure one was invaded by = a mouse, despite my best efforts to put adequate screening over the = opening. Not sure what happened to the other hive...=20 Anyway...I am preparing to get new bees from a local source and want to = prepare their home properly. There is still a lot of honey left in the = hives from last year-how much should I leave for the new bees? Is it = worth extracting any of it?=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:37:47 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 1 Jun 2002 to 2 Jun 2002 (#2002-151) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 03/06/02 05:02:49 GMT Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: << I have nothing to do with the event apart from as a participating beekeeper, but I can recommend it wholeheartedly to anyone at any level of beekeeping experience. I endorse wholeheartedly what Dave wrote. Among the other attractions is the good chance of seeing and hearing a drone assembly conducted by Karl Showler with his fishing rod baton. The College has its own golf course (bring your clubs), tennis courts, swimming pool, castle, yew cloister and is about a mile from the sea and 537 yards from the nearest pub; 569 from the farther (and better) pub. (and cold Guinness tastes best in Ireland). >>, because the ordinary beer is so awful, (but then I'm a cider drinker). Chris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:30:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 1 Jun 2002 to 2 Jun 2002 (#2002-151) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Let me say to my friends from Ireland that Dr. Delaplane is worth attending by himself. Dr. Delaplane has been on a upward climb in U.S. beekeeping. Always sought for a speaker. Tip: Dr. Delaplane does similar to Dr. Shiminuki. Both like to give their presentation unenterupted and then answer a couple questions and disappear. Advice: Allow plenty of time for questions! Dr. Delaplane also wants the lights *out* when doing his slide presentation which makes it hard to take proper notes. I took notes anyway but they looked terrible as I could not follow lines but were ok when rewritten. Dr. Delaplane is the only speaker I have ran across which wants the room as dark as a movie show but respect his wishes and only wish to warn those attending. Buy Dr. Delaplanes "Mites of the Honey Bee" and get signed by Dr. Delaplane. I had to ask a couple times but finnally got a copy signed! I keep the copy on the shelf next to the first edition L. L. Langstroth signed for me ( I wish ! ). Important: Make Ken Hoare your designated driver as he can flash his police badge and get you safely from the pub to the hotel. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:17:26 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sullivan Subject: Re: Requesting some re queening advice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My very limited experience with your situation is that queen acceptance is unlikely. I had a hive earlier this spring which your description fit almost to a "T" - plenty of workers, deminishing brood, no eggs, lots of pollen coming in. I tried 2 or three times to find the queen and could not. I assumed that because I could find no eggs that no laying worker was present so I tried to introduce a new queen. The 1st one was killed in her cage, the 2nd one I confined to a push-in cage on empty comb for 5 days and she was also killed on her release. End result is I depopulated the hive and installed a package. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:25:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Gormanston Thanks to Dave Cushman and others for the plug! I, just for fun, went through the google.com sites for cheap tickets to Ireland. The price range is remarkable. I can go from California to Dublin for under 1000.00 round trip! Got confirmation today, and I hope I'll see some of you there. I'm also planning on taking my 14 year old son, who does much of the grunt work with my little bee business. Very best regards from a warm (but dry :-( ) California Central Coast. Tim Vaughan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:02:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Inger Lamb Subject: observation hive plans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can someone provide me information on where to find plans for a large = observation hive? Thanks Inger Lamb ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:34:47 -0400 Reply-To: OhioBeeFarmer Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: OhioBeeFarmer Subject: Re: observation hive plans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Three Frames: http://beesource.com/plans/obsrhive.htm OhioBeeFarmer Getting youth involved in Beekeeping http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/BeesRUs.html http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html Subject: observation hive plans Can someone provide me information on where to find plans for a large observation hive? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 14:27:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dee Lusby Subject: Plastic 4.9mm Foundation - Trials MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi to all on BEE-L This is to let you know that advanced samples of Plastic 4.9mm foundation have been now sent to those concerned for field trials. Climates chosen for this are vast to see if the foundation will be accepted by honeybees prior to sales starting. This is a very straight forward testing. Areas choosen where: 1) Alaska, 2) Eugene, Oregon, 3) Alberta, Canada, 4) Mountains near Casper, Wyoming 5) Great Lakes area near Chicago, 6) Prarie plains of Illinois, 6) Sonoran Desert of S. Arizona, 7) Orlando, Fla., 8) Great Britian- UK, 9) Sweden So everyone knows what is going on. Here is a copy of the email sent to participants. You will be advised as information is forthcoming. Those commercial/hobbysts participating are doing this for industry, along with the overseas manufacturer, and Dadants. ------------------------ Hi all This is to let you know that all on this email have been sent advanced first run samples of Plastic 4.9mm Top tolerance foundation for looking at and trials if possible. Questions will need answering before it can be sold to industry. The answers you find and questions you have will be forwarded to both Jerry Hayes at Dadant and the manufacturing company overseas for review. Also as I have told a few of you already, do not be afraid to comment on various discussion groups how things are progressing, especially if favorable. This is a very straight forward testing prior to sales and inclusion into the Dadant 2003 Catalog for industry to be sold opposite their already now selling excellent 4.9mm wax foundation. Questions that need answering are: 1. Will the bees draw it out as is? If not why not? Already Jerry Hayes has inquired about the release coating used and special plastic used in it's manufacture. We need to know ahead of time there is no threat to the bees. So hence, will the bees draw out the plastic foundation. 2. Once drawn out then we need to know will the queens lay in the foundation? 3. Once queens are laying in the foundation will the eggs hatch? 4. Once hatching will the pupae develop normally? 5. Will the bees also store pollen and honey stores in foundation being drawn? 6. Will the bees also with greater division of labor and plastic 4.9 as a help be able to keep small hive beetles under control? Please note that this specific question is being placed into the hands of Michael Housel for research down in Florida in Orlando where small hive beetles are at their worst. Please note that varroa/trachael mites and secondary diseases were not mentioned above as that is already considered proven with prior 4.9mm wax foundation already in industry hands. We are just rying to find out whether the bees will draw the Plastic as designed and use it properly within a beehive prior to sale to industry. Any problems need to be noted and eliminated now. If you need to wash the sheets to get them to draw it note this fact! It could be the release agent or the type plastic used! If you need to coat with syrup or honey or light wax to get them to draw it note this also. but then this is already normal practice for those beekeepers purchasing plain Plastic uncoated sheets right now with various types on the market. Once the Dadants and the overseas manufacturers know that the bees will accept the Plastic 4.9mm foundation then orders can be taken by Dadant for sales. Hopefully with time left for limited sales still this active year. Regards, Dee A. Lusby __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:05:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Keith Benson Subject: Two Queen Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I perused the archives and at one point someone asked if one should use one or two queen excluders to separate queens in a two queen hive. I could not find the answer to the question and was curious to know what others do. thanks, Keith ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:22:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Warren Nelson Subject: Nebraska Master Beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to invite anyone who is interested to the Nebraska Master Beekeeper Workshop. It will be held July 25, 26 & 27, 2002 at the University of Nebraska Research Lab north of Lincoln. For more information go to the University web site at this address: http://entomology.unl.edu/beekpg/master_workshop2002.htm Thank you and I hope to see some of you there. Warren Nelson - President Nebraska Beekeepers Association ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:11:48 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Plastic 4.9mm Foundation - Trials MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dee & all > Also as I have told a few of you already, do not be afraid > to comment on > various discussion groups how things are progressing, > especially if favorable. There should be no bias in reporting! we need to know answers not opinions! If it is good enough to stand on it's own it will stand. > Please note that varroa/trachael mites and secondary > diseases were not > mentioned above as that is already considered proven with > prior 4.9mm wax > foundation already in industry hands. Certainly not proven, conjecture yes, some evidence yes, possible yes, but not proven. Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 07:55:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Frank I. Reiter" Subject: Re: Plastic 4.9mm Foundation - Trials In-Reply-To: <200206052339.g55NZdRu011888@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Dee Lusby > > Please note that varroa/trachael mites and secondary > diseases were not > mentioned above as that is already considered proven with > prior 4.9mm wax > foundation already in industry hands. I am aware of various people who are using 4.9 foundation who *feel* that it has provided them with mite resistance, but I am not aware of any formal studies with controls that shows this to actually be the case. If there are such studies I would be delighted if you would point me to them - I have been wanting to read one for some time. If there are no such studies then I consider to be rather unfortunate that the note quoted above seems to discourage people from reporting this kind of information. Frank. ----- The very act of seeking sets something in motion to meet us; something in the universe, or in the unconscious responds as if to an invitation. - Jean Shinoda Bolen http://WWW.BlessedBee.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 08:15:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Two Queen Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Keith, > I perused the archives and at one point someone asked if one should use > one or two queen excluders to separate queens in a two queen hive. I > could not find the answer to the question and was curious to know what > others do. I use only one and I have never seen two used. I have read research saying queens can not give a lethal sting through an excluder. I did see a picture in the American Bee journal of two queens fighting through an excluder. I have heard opinions expressed that with one excluder the queens will spend time on the excluder across from each other. I have never found this to be the case but suppose it happens on rare occasions. If you use a double screen at the start then I do not believe you would have a problem. Then switch the double screen for a single excluder . We then remove the excluder all together when the extra brood will emerge to late to help gather a crop and be a liability to the hive with the extra honey consumption. Strong two queen hives fall over regularly, forage out farther and can be quite nasty on days in which all bees are home and bored. Good luck! Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:30:48 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: The Christensens Subject: Re: Plastic 4.9mm Foundation - Trials MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All; I have a question for the Lusbys, with regards to the announcement made. Are the samples being sent to beekeepers who have already retrogressed some of their hives to 4.9mm cells? If that is the case, do you know if there are plans to make the transitional comb available? Thank you. Leon > This is to let you know that advanced samples of Plastic > 4.9mm foundation > have been now sent to those concerned for field trials. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:13:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Plastic 4.9mm Foundation - Trials MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Plastic is best drawn out over a strong hive of bees. 60,00 plus. Either with a strong honey flow or by constant feeding. Main reason for the bad rap given plastic foundation: Beekeepers put a 2lb package on plastic foundation in April and the weather is too cold for good wax drawing. They blame the plastic for slow progress. Beekeepers put a three frame nuc with 17 frames of plastic and blame the plastic if progress seems slow. Bees only expand the nest as the need arises. DO you see a nest in the wild in which the bees have built a bunch of empty comb for the future honey flow? Also a quart of syrup every couple weeks will NOT get plastic drawn. Be prepared to feed plenty syrup to get plastic drawn if your intention is to draw plastic with syrup. Good luck 49 ers! I am confident enough plastic will work for you I would skip the trials and put into production but the first step down from large cell might still need to be done in wax and the final downsize done in plastic. I have not tried small cell so am not speaking from experence and only saying what others have said. Sincerely, Bob Harrison . ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:46:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Coleene Davidson Subject: Queen Acceptance Comments: To: Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, irishbeekeeping@yahoogroups.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, It looks like we are going to get another day of summer, or is it spring! I have a question. Last Friday I put a new queen into a split(capped brood and bees). They had been without a queen for 72 hours. Sprayed everyone with sugar syrup, closed them up and left. Saturday and Sunday were nice but Monday, Tue, and Wed-cold and nasty. I left most of the sugar plug in the queen cage. I went to check on Her Highness-no sign of queen(she was marked), eggs or brood. What are the chances she is alive? I will check again Saturday. If again there is no sign, I have another small hive I can combine with this one that is queen right. Coleene ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 18:42:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rodney Farrar Subject: Re: Queen Acceptance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Myself and my friend had about 6-7 hives do this?? We requeened three and the others took care of themselves. I will be interested in hearing what others tell you. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 18:50:42 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rodney Farrar Subject: Re: observation hive plans Comments: cc: wmangum@mwc.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try this person: Dr. Wyatt Mangum e-mail wmangum@mwc.edu He just spoke at our club meeting this week and his topic was about an "Observation House." I was amazed at what he has built to observe bees! Rodney Farrar Leesburg, VA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 21:43:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Queen Acceptance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Coleen, You state that you put new queen in a split of bees and capped brood. Capped brood doe not hold any NURSE bees. Requeening a colony that is mostly FORAGER age bees is always tough and often results in non-acceptance. If you had introduced a new queen to practically all NURSE bees, you would probably get 98% acceptance. Why SPRAY with sugar water and then leave them with no sugar syrup feed? Awfully hard on the morale of the bees, particularly when you are STRESSING them by attempted requeening. Forget the spray, and just keep the bees in contact with a jar of 1:1 sugar syrup over the inner cover hole will be FAR more successful. I ASSUME that you TESTED the split before adding the queen cage that there was no queen presence (like a virgin queen) in the split, because if you did not TEST and there was a virgin queen present, of course you new queen is killed. "Two women in the same house is WAR", Confucius say. Trying always to be safe, and not screw up my bees, I always TEST for a queen before I combine, requeen, etc.; just by adding a frame of eggs or 6-8 hour old larvae to the colony for 48 hours before. If they make an emergency cell of the face of the comb of the larva frame, the colony is queenLESS, but if there is NO emergency cell, that colony has a queen "presence" somewhere, either a hiding queen, a virgin queen, or a laying worker (anyone of which is a queen "presence" I hope I have helped. Remember me, I went to University of Michigan 1940-44 George W. Imirie Certified EAS Master Beekeeper Beginning my 70th year of beekeeping in Maryland Author of George's Pink Pages ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 07:25:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Plastic 4.9mm Foundation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dee Lusny wrote >Please note that varroa/trachael mites and secondary >diseases were not >mentioned above as that is already considered proven with >prior 4.9mm wax >foundation already in industry hands. Considered proven? Considered proven *by whom*? And what does *considered proven* mean? Is this different from proved? I thought that the fact that beekeepers in South Africa have used 4.9 foundation for decades and *still* have problems with mites, proved that 4.9 foundation was *not* a cure-all. I thought *you* said it was only part of a complicated regime which involves special nutrition and selective breeding. Remember, if you are doing a lot of unusual practices and you get results, you have no way of knowing *which* of these practices is causing the effects you are getting. That is the reason that controlled studies are needed. How do you know that the results you are getting are not attributable solely to bee stock and not to foundation at all? One final caution: Buyer beware! If a product shows up in a catalog, it means one thing and one thing only: somebody thinks they can make a lot of money from it. It does *not* mean it has been proven effective (whatever you mean by that). -- Peter Borst ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 08:28:43 -0400 Reply-To: OhioBeeFarmer Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: OhioBeeFarmer Subject: Flooding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yesterday after a couple of days of hard rain one of my apiarys got flooded. The water rose about 8 feet and some of my bees are underwater. It was interesting to see the now river flowing around the hives without them even budging. The water covered the first deep and maybe a inch or two of the second deep above that is the QE and a few supers on each hive. All the hives have open screen bottom boards and no bottom below that so hopefully this will make for good ventilation and water drainage. Can anyone with the same or like experiance tell me after this is all over what I can expect? I think the water has subsided enough and is below the deeps although there is still about a foot still flowing and I probably won't get there till late this afternoon or tomorrow if the weather hold off. Thanks OhioBeeFarmer Getting youth involved in Beekeeping http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/BeesRUs.html http://www.homestead.com/BeeKeepers/Opening.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:03:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Frank I. Reiter" Subject: Re: Queen Acceptance In-Reply-To: <200206070155.g571iASE010261@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GImasterBK@AOL.COM wrote: > > Coleen, > You state that you put new queen in a split of bees and capped > brood. Capped brood doe not hold any NURSE bees. Requeening > a colony that is mostly FORAGER age bees > is always tough and often results in non-acceptance. George, it seems to me that if Coleen made a split with mostly foragers, and put that split anywhere other than where the original hive was, that they would have all flown home, no? Or would enough of them to cover the brood perhaps stay in order to keep it warm? Frank. ----- The very act of seeking sets something in motion to meet us; something in the universe, or in the unconscious responds as if to an invitation. - Jean Shinoda Bolen http://WWW.BlessedBee.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:16:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: huestis' Subject: Re: Plastic 4.9mm Foundation - Trials MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Frank, Read the June issue of Bee Culture for varroa report. July will be on hand making 4.9 mm foundation. regards, Clay ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 08:39:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Flooding Comments: To: OhioBeeFarmer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, In the flood of 93 in our area many hives were lost to flood waters. About 200 in one location disappeared in the Missouri river. Hives which stood and never completely went underwater like you described were ok but the lower brood box was mud. Bottom locations are best in all years but flood years and then bluff river locations are best for obvious reasons! You need to give the bees a upper entrance by propping up the lid etc as soon as possible. The only thing we could save from the lower flooded brood box was the box itself . Wash with a high pressure washer and let dry for a week in the sun. Wash as soon as possible after removing from the water and as throughly as possible as flood water can carry many chemicals. We let the frames dry and then burned frames wax and all. Others on the list may have a different method. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 08:48:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Queen Acceptance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello George and All, George wrote: > You state that you put new queen in a split of bees and capped > > brood. Capped brood doe not hold any NURSE bees. Requeening > > a colony that is mostly FORAGER age bees > > is always tough and often results in non-acceptance. A push in cage would have helped in the above situation in my opinion. Then the queen would have been surrounded by newly emerged bees. Larger push in cages are better than smaller in my opinion. When you see the push in cage is full of queen and emerged bees you simply remove the push in cage. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Ps. push in cages are easy to make. Place the queen alone in the push in cage over brood about to emerge. The bees will care for the queen through the wire and when the brood is emerged she will start life in the hive with her nurse bees. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:36:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: EAS 2002 at Cornell University Early Registration Deadline Comments: To: "NYS-BEES@listserv.albany.edu" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I hope by now everyone is aware that the Eastern Apicultural Society of North America, Inc. is holding their annual conference this year at Cornell University from August 5 - 9. The week-long EAS conference is the largest beekeeping conference in North America. The deadline for early registration (June 15th) is fast approaching. I encourage everyone to check out the offerings at: http://www.eas2002.cornell.edu/ Aaron Morris, EAS 2002 Short Course Coordinator - thinking act quickly to beat the early registration deadline! PS: I would be recommending the conference even if I weren't the short course coordinator! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:12:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Flooding Comments: To: OhioBeeFarmer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Yesterday after a couple of days of hard rain one of my apiarys got flooded. > The water rose about 8 feet and some of my bees are underwater. It was > interesting to see the now river flowing around the hives without them even > budging. The water covered the first deep and maybe a inch or two of the > second deep We had a wintering yard flood in the spring. The pallets of hives were carried along and then left against willow clumps by the receding water. We assumed they would be dead and had other work, so we left them for a while. It was very muddy there too, so we put off going in. When we did -- to our surprise -- most of the hives were alive and doing quite nicely -- better than many other yards. The pallets had acted as rafts. and although the water went well up into the bottom box, it did not go much into the top boxes, except in very heavy hives. As for mud, our water was pretty clean, and what dirt there was, the bees cleaned out after we reversed them. So we had a happy ending. Hope you do too. allen http://www.internode.net/honeybee/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:49:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Plastic 4.9mm Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Considered proven? Considered proven *by whom*? And what does > *considered proven* mean? Is this different from proved? I think Dee is saying that it is proven to *her* satisfaction. As for proven, well in spite of what most of us think, much of what we believe is not actually well proven. Most bee facts are based on limited tests in limited regions with specific bees at specific times in specific environments. We feel comfortable generalizing from these 'proofs' and are seldom challenged because others are easily persuaded by the same shallow proofs. > Remember, if you are doing a lot of unusual practices and you get > results, you have no way of knowing *which* of these practices is > causing the effects you are getting. That is the reason that > controlled studies are needed. How do you know that the results you > are getting are not attributable solely to bee stock and not to > foundation at all? This is the question many of us are asking. Nonetheless, Dee has a system that appears to work for her. As for things like honey production, and the reasons for low mite impact, nobody knows. Do small bees make as much honey? Getting honey out of small cells is significantly more difficult than extracting from larger cells... Most succesful beekeepers have a system and each component of that system is integrated into the whole. Each aspect of the system is important. One of the most common bee-ginner mistakes is to borrow working parts from a number of differing successful systems and create their own new system -- one that simply does not work. One of our problems on BEE-L is that we often focus on a single aspect of someone's system and debate its merits without considering context. Since context is essential to understanding, we often wind up arguing over things we would agree on if we knew all the facts. > One final caution: Buyer beware! If a product shows up in a catalog, > it means one thing and one thing only: somebody thinks they can make > a lot of money from it. It does *not* mean it has been proven > effective (whatever you mean by that). I sincerely doubt Dee and Ed are trying to make big money. They were teaching home-made foundation pressing free of charge to all and sundry up to now, and I am sure they still are, even with the plastic coming out. I think they simply are trying to help other beekeepers and the bees, just as they say they are. They give away their experience freely, and are not big spenders. Of course everyone who handles the product will get paid for the effort. That is the way it is with all products in America. The production of this plastic foundation is just something serendipitous that popped up. Many beekeepers said they wanted it and the opportunity came up, so Dee grabbed it. Is she going to make a buck? I hope so, but I also know she won't be greedy, and frankly I am a bit afraid she will not even take a small cut. I'm sure we all have our doubts and reservations about the role of 4.9 cell size in Lusbys still incomplete success (They still have to prove they can make honey). We will each have to prove -- or disprove -- this whole thing for ourselves in our own context. Although I was, and probably still am, very much a doubter, as I have listened and learned, I have concluded the idea is not as preposterous as I initially thought. I am willing to give it a shot if I have time and can find some bees that look as if they would appreciate some smaller comb. I think that criticisms and questions are quite in order -- and I certainly have many of my own -- but I have to say that I have the greatest respect for Lusbys and do not doubt their generosity even slightly. allen http://www.internode.net/honeybee/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:19:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Queen Acceptance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank, Unfortunately, Coleen did NOT describe How she made the split, so I have no idea of the proportion of FORAGER AGE and NURSE AGE bees. She only said she made a split of "bees and CAPPED brood" If she had said, "OPEN brood and covering bees" that would have been a different "horse". It is a shame that beekeepers don't understand the importance of details like this one. Then, we would ALL be BETTER beekeepers than we are. Hope I have helped. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 15:31:15 -0400 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Fischer Subject: Grab The Bee-Vac, Head For Houston! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Swarms for the taking, it appears. Decent sized ones, too. http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/60602_news_bees.html jim ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:47:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Milt Lathan Subject: Ants, Tall Grass and SNAKES! A couple of my hives are in the 'hills' 35 miles east of Seattle. These were started from packages in April. I was there over the holiday weekend and was very surprised to find one of the empty deeps over a feeder pail filled with little brownish black ants. They were as surprised as I was and rapidly began lugging their larvae out and down the tall grass at the back and sides of the hive. Only one hive had the ant neighbors - the ants weren't able to get to the syrup but they sure liked the knotholes in the budget box I was using. As a city-beekeeper, I've had minor problems with ants before but I never had them move right in before. I told myself I would bring something to knockdown the grass - and decided to try weed-killer. I bought some and left it in the car till this morning when I returned to find VERY tall grass all around the hive - no problem, I keep hedge clippers in the car for two other hives which are surrounded by blackberry hedges. I started clipping away at the front of the hives when I noticed the snakes. As a baby-boomer I no longer feel any need to be macho - so I'll just say it right out - snakes make me ... uhn..nervous. One of these two black w/yellow striped guys was sizeable but they are probably harmless - in fact after I got my courage back it took a lot of shaking the grass to get them to move off down the mountain - probably still cold (just like those desert rattlers on the Learning Channel?!). After they left I went back to hacking away at the scrub grasses and right next to the hives I took to pulling the grass out by hand. Then, I opened the sprinkler top on my "Liquid Edger" bottle and doused the area thoroughly. The hives are on open mesh bottoms on top of thick 8-inch cedar logs. The bees by now were happily rushing in and out unimpeded by flora. Except, I noticed a few of the returning foragers were dropping to the grass clippings in front - for a break? That's the first time it dawned on me that mayhaps this is not the brightest idea I ever had - ANY TIPS ON BEES AND WEED-KILLERS? It's been wet the last couple days I hope they weren't foraging. I am going to go back with my power-trimmer but I don't want to do that all the time. What about something like astro-turf at least in front - sound reasonable? Any Northwesterners out there have any tips on snakes - dangerous or otherwise - I assume they are attracted to the cover or the hives and hive- stands - I know they eat crickets and such - are bees on the menu too? BTW - When I searched the archives I came up with a couple hits from ANDY NACHBAUR - What a character! If you too are fairly new here he's worth looking up. Thanks for listening! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:30:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Queen Acceptance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, She only said she made a split of "bees and CAPPED brood" If she had said, "OPEN brood and covering bees" that would have been a different "horse". I must be missing something here. Capped brood and bees to cover is all I ever make a split out of if at all possible. Why would you give a tiny nuc open brood to keep warm and feed? Hobby beekeepers begin to take queen acceptance serious after the third or so dead queen at $10 plus a pop. Hmmm. Beekeeping is not as easy as many would have you believe. Bees don't read the same bee books as we do. The 92 edition of "The Hive and the Honey Bee" contains 1324 small print pages on beekeeping with hardly any information on the varroa mite. For mites you need to read "Mites of the Honey Bee" another fine Dadant publication which has 18 chapters and 280 pages. If I could only keep two of my bee books the above two are the ones I would choose. I like reading the old masters but as my friend George Imirie posted a couple years ago the best information on beekeeping has been written in the last two decades. You can't keep bees like "daddy" did years ago and be successful today. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 18:06:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Frank I. Reiter" Subject: Re: Ants, Tall Grass and SNAKES! In-Reply-To: <200206072136.g57LOkS4003739@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ANY TIPS ON BEES AND WEED-KILLERS? It's been wet the last > couple days I hope they weren't foraging. I am going to go back with my > power-trimmer but I don't want to do that all the time. What about > something like astro-turf at least in front - sound reasonable? This year I put two 18" patio stones in front of each hive. They are cheap, durable, won't blow away, and the weeds can't push through them. Frank. ----- The very act of seeking sets something in motion to meet us; something in the universe, or in the unconscious responds as if to an invitation. - Jean Shinoda Bolen http://WWW.BlessedBee.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 17:08:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Ants, Tall Grass and SNAKES! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ANY TIPS ON BEES AND WEED-KILLERS? One of the best tips I've heard is to use old carpet around hives. It is easy to get, easy to lay, costs nothing and takes a burden off the local landfill. In time it will return to the soil, but for years it will suppress weed growth. allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:04:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Lipscomb Subject: Re: Plastic 4.9mm Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > I think Dee is saying that it is proven to *her* satisfaction. As for > proven, well in spite of what most of us think, much of what > we believe is > not actually well proven. Most bee facts are based on > limited tests in > limited regions with specific bees at specific times in specific > environments. We feel comfortable generalizing from these > 'proofs' and are > seldom challenged because others are easily persuaded by the > same shallow > proofs. > Without being disrespectful to Dee, one of the problems we have had on the list is a number of beekeepers who wander the line between scientist and alchemist. What Dee is trying to do makes some sense and is worth the effort to investigate. Her methods are, at times, wanting. But that should not be a reason to discourage her efforts. I think that since this list does hint at being "informed" we all need to apply our own filters to the information provided and understand its limitations. Ancient astronomers thought the world was the center of all things, they were wrong but could predict an eclipse. The right level of skepticism is always the best position. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 18:35:00 -0500 Reply-To: John Moe Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Moe Subject: Re: Ants, Tall Grass and SNAKES! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My approach for my small hobby apiary was to put down landscape cloth with mulch over the top. It looks nice and there are no weeds (or snakes!) John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank I. Reiter" To: Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 5:06 PM Subject: Re: Ants, Tall Grass and SNAKES! > > ANY TIPS ON BEES AND WEED-KILLERS? It's been wet the last > > couple days I hope they weren't foraging. I am going to go back with my > > power-trimmer but I don't want to do that all the time. What about > > something like astro-turf at least in front - sound reasonable? > > This year I put two 18" patio stones in front of each hive. They are cheap, > durable, won't blow away, and the weeds can't push through them. > > Frank. > ----- > The very act of seeking sets something in motion to meet us; > something in the universe, or in the unconscious responds as if > to an invitation. - Jean Shinoda Bolen > > http://WWW.BlessedBee.ca > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 19:31:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Ants, Tall Grass and SNAKES! Allen is indeed right about old carpet. I have 8 of my hives on them, and I wish the rest were. That fiber-cloth you put under bark and stone in your garden to keep out weeds works well also, but you have to stake it down, otherwise the weeds push it up. The snakes are garter snakes, and they love to eat the small mice that live around beehives. I found a couple by some of my hives a few months ago, and brought them home to my kids. Within a few weeks we had nine babies (they are live-bearers). They are not at all mean, and can be handled. They are altogether nicer that the spitting cobras that hung around my hives in South Africa. The best advice I got for ants is from the archives here. Mix 10-30 percent or so borax with honey and put it into jars or cans with nail holes. Put it under something like an upside down hive body so the ants can come in but the bees can't. It takes a few days, but it works great. I've even poured it directly onto the ground around the hives and placed a flat board on top. Regards Tim Vaughan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 17:42:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Tooley Subject: Re: Ants, Tall Grass and SNAKES! In-Reply-To: <200206072136.g57LOkS4003739@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A couple of seasons back I sat the 5 gal pail(with cushion)that I sit on when working hives down next to one.I just happened to glance down at the ground.Right next to my foot was a thick snake tail sticking out from under the hive, with a bunch of rattles.Never jumped so fast in my life. I dont mind the garter,gopher,and king snakes as they do a lot of good ,but the rattlers make me nervous if they are in the beeyard. ----Mike ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 22:24:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Churchill Subject: Re: Ants, Tall Grass and SNAKES! In-Reply-To: <200206072313.g57N4FSY005431@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> ANY TIPS ON BEES AND WEED-KILLERS? I use carpet in front and behind the hive, but not directly under it. One thing to watch for: I once got too close with the bushhog and quickly pulled the entire back piece of carpeting into the bushhog - sucked it in like a strand of spaghetti. If the hive stand had been resting on the carpet, it probably would have tipped the hive over. Not somthing I (or the bees) would have enjoyed. Michael Churchill Beginning Beekeeper p.s. Carpeting is also great as a base for garden paths under mulch or pea gravel.