From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:17:25 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-83.5 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,DRUGS_PAIN,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C0348916 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDAZcw011456 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0302A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 224930 Lines: 4981 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 07:57:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Conklin & Becky Marty Subject: Re: Honey flavors In-Reply-To: <200301310502.AAA17758@alumni.duke.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" When I wrote: > Makes willow honey as tough to come by as chicken milk. :^) I THOUGHT I knew what I was talking about. Thanks for the correction. Any hints on how to get my hens to stand still in the stanchions? --- Paul Conklin ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:40:08 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: tom barrett Subject: How to learn all about FGMO Comments: cc: FGMOBeekeeping@yahoogroups.co.uk, FloridaBeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, nZBkprs@yahoogroups.com, Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello All There was a recent exchange on the Irish List following the publication of the article on FGMO in The American Bee Journal. I show below a reply I sent to that List, comparing IMHO the value of discussion on a treatment with the value of using that treatment. It matters not a jot or tittle to me, or I would suggest to any other FGMO user, how many or how few beekeepers use FGMO. Unlike the Bayvarols of this world no money will ever be made with FGMO so the number of users is of no importance. If it works for me then that is all that is important to me. When I make information on FGMO available, I do so for the sake of the beekeepers who may wish to use it. The others continue as they always have, and good luck to all. Imagine if you will, 20 beekeepers gathered together, just like on this List. And then imagine that they all dish out their theories on how good or how bad FGMO is , just like on this List. What, may I make so bold as to ask, is learned? Just like many debates on many other subjects, the participants leave the debate with the same views as they started with, by and large. So little if anything is learned about FGMO using this route. And when the debate goes on long enough, trite silly comments like the reaction between FGMO and smokers and ... - Oh let me tell you a couple of good ones that were trotted out at a meeting I attended in the last couple of months. Tom B. Varroa mites cannot develop resistance to FGMO because of the vast difference between the spiracle sizes of bees and mites. Beekeeper: How do you know that the mites could not enlarge their spiracles to defeat FGMO. (I kid you not - I had difficulty in believing my ears, as you may have believing your eyes!). Varroa mites the size of bees!!!!! Tom B. FGMO is liquid paraffin and is a food grade product. Beekeeper: Suppose that I had some honey treated with FGMO could I get diarrhoea? But may I make a suggestion? Suppose that these same 20 beekeepers started using FGMO with strict adherence to the rules, and let the results speak for themselves. Then something would be learned. How about it? And the more beekeepers who use it the more will be learned. Sincerely Tom Barrett Dublin Ireland e ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 11:29:04 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: tom barrett Subject: URLs for FGMO Comments: cc: nZBkprs@yahoogroups.com, Norlandbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello All I show the following in response to requests for URLs for FGMO : The following URL gives access to a vast amount of information on FGMO. http://www.beesource.com/pov/rodriguez/ The following URL shows a copy of a certificate in Spanish obtained by Dr Rodriguez showing analysis of honey with translation into English of important parts of the text. This certificate is in respect of an analysis carried out on honey from hives which had been treated with FGMO for three years. http://www.beesource.com/pov/rodriguez/fgmoanalisis.htm I trust that the above is helpful. Sincerely Tom Barrett Dublin Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:51:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Keith G. Benson" Subject: Observation Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I work for a Zoo and for years we have had an ob hive as part of our SC farm exhibit. The hive is in a barn with graphics explaining honeybee biology and the importance of pollinators to the visitors. The hive is of an interesting design, being 4 deep frames high and a single frame deep, but there are two such stacks each level joined by a short runway. These are 90 degrees from each other giving the public 4 different viewing angles. There is then the obligatory runway to the outside. Traditionally the queens have been reluctant to use more than one side, apparently not wishing to cross one of the bridges, and the unit acts as a traditional 4 frame hive. The population builds up and then we have swarms. There has been some issues with SHB in the less used side as there are fewer bees to monitor the situation. I have been mulling over ways to make the exhibit better for the bees and the visitors for a while now, and have had several ideas I was hoping people might comment on. One is to reduce the hive to a straight forward 4 frame tall ob hive. This way people can see the queen as always, but the dead space is eliminated. I do have some concerns with colony maintenance though, as the exhibit is tough to service when we are open, and I was looking for something a smidgen lower on the manpower scale. The other thing that intrigued me was the 3 frame wide hive sold by beecommerce.com. I was thinking that something like that, only instead of 3 deeps and 3 medium frames I might have one made that was two rows of 3 deeps for more space. Can't see the queen, but I get the impression that most folks are there to simply see the bees as a colony, not just her majesty. Anyone have any other thoughts? Experiences with OB hives in the educational setting?? thanks, Keith ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:10:43 +0100 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Re: How has the bitter cold affected your bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I agree, the stethoscope is a great tool for checking what is going on > in the hive. I've been using one for several years now, and it gives > a very good, quick estimate of where the bees are and how numerous > they are, and aside from the rapping on the outside it doesn't even > disturb them. I wonder why people are visiting the bees in the winter when snow are covering the earth! To my experience there is nothing you can do if a hive is not OK. Besides your footsteps are turning into deadly traps when the bees on a nice 10 degrees Celsius day make a cleansing flight. If no footsteps they may land on the snow but nearly all (Not worn out) will be able to lift of again. If footsteps in the snow some will land in those and because of the cold accumulated in those they will not be able to lift of and are lost. Best regards Jorn Johanesson Multilingual software for beekeeping since 1997 hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software now Version 6 heavily expanded and major bugfix. Full Indstallation http://apimo.dk/programs/beekeping_hivenote.exe update installation http:/apimo.dk/programs/bidataupdate.exe home page = HTTP://apimo.dk e-mail apimo@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:56:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Pollen While I'm working on my website, I thought I'd post a picture to show that for a few months of the year, parts of California can be just as lovely as the British Isles are during the whole year. This pollen is from avocado, eucalyptus, lemon, mustard and a half dozen other things. My 12 year old has harvested about 1 weeks worth from a medium strong hive. We use the Sundance traps. http://webpages.charter.net/tvaughan/pollen3.html Regards Tim Vaughan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:42:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: How to learn all about FGMO Comments: To: cssl@IOL.IE >There was a recent exchange on the Irish List following the publication of >the article on FGMO in The American Bee Journal... >Imagine if you will, 20 beekeepers gathered together, just like on this >List. And then imagine that they all dish out their theories on how good >or how bad FGMO is , just like on this List. What, may I make so bold >as to ask, is learned? Thanks for that, Tom. That's what many of us have been wondering, and part of why I, for one have withdrawn from managment of BEE-L. It is also why, years back, I ran BestofBee and may bring it back again. I do believe, however that these lists do serve a purpose. They allow discussion between people who would otherwise never meet, and expedite exposure to new ideas. To choose an example related to what you mentioned above, as we all know, Dr. Pedro first brought his ideas to this list when he was using waxed paper strips, and it was on this list that he first learned of the Burgess fogger, and that oil fog had been used previously in California. >From here, he has perservered and developed a technique that seems to work, although it still -- AFAIK -- requires use of cords and may or may not be practical on a large scale. Hopefully your list will come up with some answers and we will hear the better comments here as well as the ones you provided. One of the problems with these lists is that matters are discussed and then people forget or new people come along and do not know what has been discussed. Others tire of educating newcomers and cease responding, other than to say occasionally, "Search the archives." We do know, however, that for every person who posts to the list, there are twenty or more that just read and think. We know that because ideas and quotations from these lists show up in magazines and in email between researchers. Sometimes a respected researcher will de-cloak and join in. It is easy to focus on the assinine comments and ignore the occasional glitters of golden ideas, but even after a decade, I still find BEE-L a worthwhile read. What do we learn? I've learned a great deal, both about bees and about people. Participation in BEE-L has been and continues to be highly educational for me, and entertaining to boot. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:16:59 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been keeping bees for 15 years. I don't suggest that that puts me in the category of expert, but I can relate my experience. I find honey bees to be docile beings. I have a number of "home hives" 20 feet off my front porch where I sit on my rocking chair in the summer. The bees have never taken exception to me there. In fact, I have never been stung by a bee except when they logically considered their hive in danger from my actions. That generally takes a lot rather than just walking by. On the other hand, I had a nest of yellow jackets under the apple tree on the other side of my porch and they had to go. They were extremely aggressive. Most don't know the difference between a bee and a yellow jacket. If your community is upset about stinging episodes, perhaps they should make sure they know what is doing the stinging. I would be very surprised to find a honey bee involved. Perhaps they should ban yellow jacket colonies. That would make a much greater difference in the danger to residents. "Physicians believe that many > more deaths may occur than are reported, mistakenly diagnosed as heart > attacks, sun strokes or attributed to other causes." This argument is ridicules. There are also physicians that believe that bee stings cure MS and prevent arthritis. Neither statement is pertinent to your argument. "--1% of the population has a potentially fatal allergy to stinging > insect venom." An interesting hypothesis. I have been suspicious of these percentages since over thirty years as a high school teacher, I saw "Medical Concerns List" for my students - which at one time had nearly no sting allergies - grow to about 25% with sting allergies. Have people changed? When I ask about their allergy, I often hear that when they get stung, is swells up and hurts. I sense that many who assume an allergy to stings are really responding to something that hurts (or gets their mother excited) and not a life-threatening systemic response. If you have not read it, the recent issue of Bee Culture has two articles on bees and the law. Good luck with the city. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 00:19:04 -0500 Reply-To: john.scott@trcoc.org Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Scott Subject: Races of bees in the deep south MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This month marks my third year of beekeeping - I am a hobbyist with two hives in my backyard in a suburban area in central Georgia. I have lurked on this list for most of that time, learning much from the discussions here - I am deeply indebted to the combined wisdom of the members of this list that you so willingly share. I began three years ago with nucs from an established beekeeper, queened with Italians. Last year, I decided to experiment by requeening with Starline queens. I was quite satisfied with the performance of those queens. But I do have a concern with them. During extraction time last year - my first honey crop due to my inexperience and trial and error learning of how to manage these amazing little creatures - I experienced my first potential problems with neighbors. In the process of removing supers, etc. I was a bit too sloppy and my bees got more aggressive than I've ever seen them before. My six year old received his first bee sting playing across the yard, and a neighbor was stung while out with his one year old daughter (lots of apologies and free honey for that). If I want to continue this hobby, I need to minimize the risk of the neighbors getting chased by angry bees. In this specific situation, I hope I learned enough to avoid the same mistakes next time. Now to the concern...given that I want to keep my bees gentle, I want to pick queens that will raise gentle bees. The Starlines are gentle enough. I read in the archives, though, that with them being hybrids if they are superceded, swarm, etc. subsequent generations may not exhibit the same behaviors (and indeed, it seems that more often than not they become extremely aggressive). I don't want to take that chance. I like to experiment, and have read with interest the conversations about different races of bees and the possible advantages (I know, buyer beware..) of the Russians or NWC queens. I would be interested in giving them a shot and seeing how they do before settling on what kinds of bees I continue to keep long term. The real question I have, is since these bees descended from bees in a much cooler climate that what I experience in Georgia, how well they'd perform here. Heck, I don't perform too well here - it's the most miserably hot place I've ever lived. Anyone have experience with Russian and/or NWC in an environment like central/south Georgia or Florida? How do they do, as compared with the Italians? John Scott Macon, GA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 17:09:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. You can send them this picture of me and my 11 year old daughter that I took today, but I fear that you will be contending with a mixture of reasonable people and fanatics. http://webpages.charter.net/tvaughan/pollen2.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:24:31 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: Observation Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When beetle larvae show up in the hive you need to vacuum clean the bottom of hive clean. When you have a swarm this is the time that the beetle larvae will expand for destruction of hive. I drilled a hole at the bottom side large enough to put a tube the size of ones finger thur. Any debree that builds at the bottom can be vacuumed out. Assembly of masking tape used to connect the tube to the vacuum cleaner hose can be left together for future uses. The bees will survive the beetles attack most of the time but will be weak. Feed sugar water to the hive as soon as you see the larvae debree build up. If you see the beetle larvae on the frame, they start out as a circle, you can exchange the frame. Michael Housel Orlandobee ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:24:59 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: cognant.mike@BTCONNECT.COM Subject: Re: Observation Hives In-Reply-To: <3E3D224B.2070708@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 2 Feb 2003 at 8:51, Keith G. Benson wrote: Can't see the queen, but I get the > impression that most folks are there to simply see the bees as a colony, > not just her majesty. Hi In my experience maintaining an observation colony in a Horticultural society garden in the summer months, the queen is the one thing that visitors always wish to see. I would advise against a double layer as the queen will tend to stay where she cannot be seen. Regards Mike Rowbottom HARROGATE North Yorks UK ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 17:53:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You wrote: The City of Aurora Colorado will be having a Code Enforcement and Redevelopement Committee meeting .. and Africanized "killer bees" .. are expected to invade Colorado at sometime in the future In my opinion, this is a compelling argument for putting in place residential beekeeping ordinances that favor and guide placement of bee in urban areas. If you outlaw the docile European bee, it will certainly be replaced by feral AHB. Properly placed beehives pose little threat to people, short of sitting on a honey bee, it won't sting you while its out foraging. My wife's taken ultra-close macro-photos for many years now, and has never even come close to being stung, yet she's been within inches of thousands of bees. Near the hive, in front of the hive entrance, or right after a colony has been roughly handled by a beekeeper, and you will see some defensiveness. That's easily offset by placing hives back on lots, a fence in front to act as a baffle to force bees up and over -- what you don't want is people walking in front of the hive, intersecting their incoming and outgoing flight path. I have an observation hive on our campus, and people eat their lunch at a picnic table under the tube that goes through the window, and no one has been stung- most don't notice. The Smithsonian flies an obervation hive out onto the Mall in D.C. There's never going to be NO RISK from anything. But I'd rather see properly managed and positioned bees in cities than their exclusion, which leaves the door wide open for the more aggressive AHB. Cheers ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 17:57:11 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Re: Difference between wasps and honey bees and stinging behavior You may wish to download the two short videos done here at UM with our local TV stations. Every year, we get these questions, so we posted the interviews. Fo to: http://beekeeper.dbs.umt.edu/bees/video.htm Scroll down the list to the videos, click on them to download. Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:26:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:10 PM 1/31/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I need some help rather urgently. The City of Aurora Colorado will >be having a Code Enforcement and Redevelopement Committee meeting on >Wed. February 5, 2003 to consider making an ordinance regarding >beekeeping in residential areas. I'm no expert, but I've sited my sources and expert's names where possible: Be aware that most states, Including Colorado, have 'right-to-farm' laws, and that the City might not be able to legally control beekeeping in all areas of the city. (Specifically areas involuntarily annexed into the city after July1, 1981 if I'm reading CO's code right, but I am not a lawyer.) There are many reasonable laws on the books. Some cities simply allow it unless it becomes a nuisance (leaving it up to the beekeeper to take measures to prevent it.) This I think isn't a good idea because 'nuisance' is highly objective. (I've heard of many cases of empty hives, or hives present for many years suddenly becoming a nuisance once a neighbor finally noticed them, sometimes after 5 years). Better guidelines are like those found at http://www.honeybee.com.au/cop/ which limit the number of hives by lot size, spacing of hives (from property lines), fences, etc. >--1% of the population has a potentially fatal allergy to stinging >insect venom. According to the University of California this number is 0.1% to 0.2% (See http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/wildlife/bees.htm) and this number. (The commonly quoted, and inaccurate, 1% is from the boyscout handbook if memory serves) Based on the number of fatal insect stings, 60% are due to wasps, yellow jacks and other non-honeybees. (See http://www.oardc.ohio-state.edu/beelab/factsheets/sheets/2076.html and http://www.stingshield.com/news.htm) Most of the 'insect venom' deaths could likely be avoided. In one study 5 of 7 victims had prior experience of their allergy but failed to carry an epipen (See: http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/173_04_210800/mcgain/mcgain.html) (If you had asthma you wouldn't be without an inhaler would you?) >-- Africanized "killer bees" have increased in number in the United >States. If the so called 'killer bees' are going to move into Aurora, they will do so regardless if there are domestic bees in the area. All deaths from 'killer' bees have been from feral hives, not those kept by beekeepers. See http://www.sfc.ucdavis.edu/pubs/brochures/bees.html According to Joseph S. Latshaw (www.ohioqueenbreeders.com ), aggression is an additive trait, not a recessive/dominate type. This means that successive breeding of domestic with 'killer' bees will make them more docile. Any beekeeper who finds an abnormally agressive hive will requeen it, thereby removing the potentially 'killer bee' tendency from the hive. The 'killer' bees are hardly killers. Only about 12 deaths can be attributed to 'killer' bees since they have entered the US. Deaths from the common European honey bee numbers 40 per year. (This includes feral bees) See http://www.stingshield.com/news.htm. Most reports of 'killer' bees in the news are false and unconfirmed in my experiance. Often they are normal honeybees and are simply destroyed before any determination is made, or they are not bees at all. I remember an news article from florida about a year ago about a swarm of 7 killer bees in a trash can that attacked a young girl. From the description this was definitely not a 'killer' bee attack, likely it was a yellowjackets. Personal experience: My wile's young siblings (9 and 13) have been stung more times at their house 2 miles from the nearest domestic hive than my children (3 and 8) who live just feet from 34 hives. In fact I have two hives in my front yard which the children play around. My 3 year old likes to sit in front of the hive and watch the bees, sometimes picking a flower for them and placing it on their entrance. Not to mention all the benefits of honeybees. Pollination (50% of our food can be attributed to the honey bee. http://www.stingshield.com/lebas.htm), Honey, Pollen, Sting therapy, etc. You would likely do more to prevent insect stings by removing the things that attract them. Open trash and drink containers. Flowering plants, etc. -Tim ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 01:14:13 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Morris Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 1 Feb 2003 to 2 Feb 2003 (#2003-34) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/2/03 11:02:11 PM Central Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: << Anyone have experience with Russian and/or NWC in an environment like central/south Georgia or Florida? How do they do, as compared with the Italians? John Scott Macon, GA >> John, I had 5 hives in my back yard. 3 hives hadItalians from Wilbanks and 2 hives I had the NWC. I didnt find one hive "more agressive" than another until one of the Italians superceeded and I got a "Home Grown" queen. This hive actually produced the most honey-but it was the most agressive. I was living In Powder Springs Ga at the time which is due west of Atlanta. I found the NWC's did fine, though you have to watch them a bit more as they build up a lot faster in the spring. Hope this helped. Tim Morris ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:13:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Observation Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The hive is of an interesting design, being 4 deep frames high and a > single frame deep, but there are two such stacks each level joined by a > short runway. These are 90 degrees from each other giving the public 4 > different viewing angles. There is then the obligatory runway to the > outside. > Traditionally the queens have been reluctant to use more than one side, > apparently not wishing to cross one of the bridges, and the unit acts as > a traditional 4 frame hive. The population builds up and then we have > swarms. There has been some issues with SHB in the less used side as > there are fewer bees to monitor the situation. A few suggestions: 1) Downsize to one "side" or the other, or perhaps use them as two individual colonies. While a long entrance tube (I've had sucess with even an 8-foot tube) does not seem to bother bees at all, the "connecting tunnel" clearly must go if the bees do not frequent the 2nd area. 2) Restrict the queen to one frame of four, perhaps using one of the newer plastic queen excluders cut to fit in an appropriate slide in/slide-out slot. This alone should keep the population "under control". One could even restrict the queen to one side of one frame, at least if plastic foundation were used to resist chew-throughs. 3) While you are working out a modification for the queen excluder, think about how you might allow quick in-place access to the topmost frame, so that it can be removed and replaced with an empty frame or a frame of foundation when it becomes filled with stores. If this is a time-consuming process, it won't get done. If it is designed to be easy and quick, it can keep many house bees busy, and away from the brood area. jim ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:01:35 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Expert opinions needed. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Tim & All, Tim said: In fact I have two hives in my front yard which the children play around. My 3 year old likes to sit in front of the hive and watch the bees, sometimes picking a flower for them and placing it on their entrance. I would not recommend letting a 3 year old play in *front* of any bee hive. I have seen hives which have been docile all season become very aggressive between inspections. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:00:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. Greetings I am probably going to be the odd man out here, but my nearly 30 years experience with bees has taught me that hives should not be placed closer than a half a mile from any dwelling without the owner's permission. People should be allowed to choose whether they want to live near bee hives. Bees can be annoying and at times very dangerous. Why should anyone unwillingly be exposed to such a risk? Preventable stinging incidents only cast a dim light on beekeeping. It is a rural occupation, despite the success some people have had keeping bees in town. I understand the logic behind exterminating any loose swarms in the areas where African Bees are established. It is better to be safe than sorry in these cases. Honey bees can be outlawed from urban areas without harming the bee industry and the gardens, since there are other pollinators which can fill in the gap. My feeling is that if you want to keep bees, or horses, or chickens, you should live out in the country where people accept these occupations as a way of life and understand the risks and responsibilities. pb ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:53:52 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter > Preventable stinging incidents only cast a dim light > on beekeeping. It is a rural occupation, > despite the success some people have had > keeping bees in town. Maybe it is the ignorance of the general population about bees and bee keeping, but historically bees were exploited wherever they were naturally found... When they became domesticated they were kept close to dwellings and this situation was the norm until about 100 years ago. As the general population has had progressively less contact with bees they have become more ignorant and frightened. This fear has caused beekeepers to be forced to keep their bees in a more rural or agricultural situation. Many agricultural or rural locations are a 'desert' as far as bee forage is concerned. I have to temper the above with the fact that many bee colonies of today are not as well behaved as those of a century or more ago, but nevertheless beekeeping in hives, skeps or boxes has always been carried out in populated areas. I believe that beekeepers have a responsibility to themselves and their neighbours to keep bees of a suitable temper that such 'incedents' do not occur. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:29:32 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Tooley Subject: Almond Bloom in California In-Reply-To: <009d01c2a6af$468b0a00$0e256118@nycap.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well its that time again.Here is Blue Diamonds site where they give daily updates during the bloom period.We were down in the Sac.Valley this weekend,and the early varieties are beginning to pop. ---Mike ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:19:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: berentsonp@MAF.GOVT.NZ Subject: NEW ZEALAND FREE OF AETHINA TUMIDA (SMALL HIVE BEETLE) New Zealand remains free of the beehive pest Aethina tumida Aethina tumida (Small Hive Beetle) is a beetle originating from Southern Africa which feeds on wax and honey in beehives. While it is considered a minor problem in Africa, it has become a significant pest of bees in the United States since 1998. The New Zealand Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry (NZ MAF) wish to advise that New Zealand is free of A tumida, and has stringent border controls to prevent the entry of pests, backed up by a nation-wide beehive surveillance programme. Australia first detected A tumida in late October 2002, in New South Wales. A survey carried out through November showed that the beetle had spread extensively in Australia, and a decision was taken not to attempt eradication of the beetle. New Zealand has been in regular contact with Australian authorities throughout this period, and has closely followed the incursion response. NZ MAF has reviewed the risk pathways by which A tumida could be spread. New Zealand already prohibits the importation of bees, honey and used beekeeping equipment from Australia, which are considered to pose the highest risk of introducing A tumida. MAF is aware that some international importers of honey bees assume that pests and diseases which are found in Australia will also be found in New Zealand. In fact, New Zealand is separated from Australia by over 2000 km of ocean. In comparison, most of Europe is far closer to Egypt (where A tumida was also detected recently), than New Zealand is to Australia. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:52:51 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Almond Bloom in California MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike said: We were down in the Sac.Valley this weekend,and the early varieties are beginning to pop. You can divide most Almond growers into two groups. Those which use sprays and those which do not. Those which do not have been getting beehives set for over a week (and longer). Many of those which have been putting on a *green tip* spray will be getting hives this week. Of course the southern zone and northern zone could be different than in the central valley which is the area my information comes from. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:40:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: NEW ZEALAND FREE OF AETHINA TUMIDA (SMALL HIVE BEETLE) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >New Zealand remains free of the beehive pest Aethina tumida Because of the way SHb has been spreading around the world and early detection of SHB is like "looking for a needle in a haystack" I would rather say: New Zealand has not yet found the SHB but the SHB could be in New Zealand but as yet undetected. Bob PS. Is all the recent beekeeping pest spread (tracheal mites, varroa and Aethina Tumida) over the last two decades of beekeeping history (U.S.)coming from swarms on ships at ports? Have not these same ports been in operation for years without spreading beekeeping pests? Hmmm. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:05:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mary Kellogg Subject: requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, I am fairly new to this list-serv and to beekeeping (2yrs). Am enjoying it and learning a great deal from the "voices of wisdom" out there. Warm weather in CT these last 2 days has brought my bees out on cleansing flights---it is so wonderful to see!! Just a few unrelated questions: 1. I plan to requeen one of my hives this spring (if they survive the rest of the winter). Honey production was minimal and they are quite aggressive. When does one go about ordering a new queen to have it for spring? Do you have to order month's in advance? 2. Re: pollen traps (Just read Lloyd's article in Bee Culture). How do these traps benefit the bees in the long run? Aren't you just taking the pollen from them to give it back later? Why not just let them store it away for later themselves? I am missing something here. I will ask the remainder of my zillion questions at a later time. Thanks so much. Mary in CT ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 12:59:26 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Observation Hives In-Reply-To: <200302030500.h134ualO001828@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 2/2/03 23:00, Automatic digest processor at LISTSERV@listserv.albany.edu wrote: > Anyone have any other thoughts? Experiences with OB hives in the > educational setting?? > > thanks, > > Keith Keith, It's been my experience watching people watch the bees in observation hives that one of the most thrilling parts for the spectators is looking, then finding and watching the queen. One of the spectators would exclaim, "There she is!" and the rest would congregate around to see and watch. For what it is worth. Mike in south Alabama ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:33:17 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Pests to the USA - was NEW ZEALAND FREE OF AETHINA TUMIDA (SMALL HIVE BEETLE) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison wrote > Is all the recent beekeeping pest spread (tracheal mites, varroa and Aethina > Tumida) over the last two decades of beekeeping history (U.S.)coming from > swarms on ships at ports? This is different to what I had heard and read. Firstly, the literature has several references to the small hive beetle coming to the USA in fruit. As for varroa and tracheal mites, in 1986 when in the USA I was told that they had come with the illegal importation of bees from South America to Florida. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 12:52:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Harrison" To: "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 10:06 AM Subject: Re: Re: [BEE-L] Expert opinions needed. Hello All, Bees in the news . Naples, Florida: "Beekeeper called after swarm attacks dogs in Golden Gate" http://www.naplesnews.com/03/01naples/d884635a.htm Press enterprise Riverside, California http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/city/j01,bees.htm I believe the second story illustrates that the professional beekeeper is better able to deal with aggressive bees than the average person. The swarm remover at first recieved 600 stings in his first encounter with AHB. The swarm removal video sold by A.I.Root which shows fire departments safe methods to handle AHB sits gathering dust on store shelves. Southern California bee clubs need to start going to fire departments and showing the video. Fire trucks carry the equipment allready and all extra needed is common grocery store liquid soap. Fire departments many times are first on the scene. The Midwestern Beekeepers Assn. has shown the A.I.Root video to most fire departments in the K.C. area and has bought the video for our library. Checking out the video, making an appt. with the fire department and going and showing the video is a fun experience and could save a life. To order video: A.I. Root 1-800-289-7668 ext. 3255 Bob ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 04:21:54 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Cara & Tom Patterson Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. In-Reply-To: <200302022209.h12Lj6pI029915@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks. Ignorance makes people afraid. Education brings freedom from fear and allows reasonable decisions to be made. I am hoping to educate reasonable and intelligent people. I know that people can and do learn and therefore change. Tom On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 17:09:51 -0500, you wrote: >You can send them this picture of me and my 11 year old daughter that I >took today, but I fear that you will be contending with a mixture of >reasonable people and fanatics. > >http://webpages.charter.net/tvaughan/pollen2.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 07:25:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: requeening In-Reply-To: <5F019594.79BD8525.0004E797@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:05 PM 2/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Just a few unrelated questions: >1. I plan to requeen one of my hives this spring (if they survive the rest >of the winter). Honey production was minimal and they are quite >aggressive. When does one go about ordering a new queen to have it for >spring? Do you have to order month's in advance? As soon as possible. Queen producers are typically busiest in the spring and it's often a first come first serve business. Ordering early also lets them plan for the demand, after all a queen isn't produced overnight. If you order late you'll have to come out of the stock on hand which may be limited or wait until more are raised. >2. Re: pollen traps (Just read Lloyd's article in Bee Culture). How do >these traps benefit the bees in the long run? Aren't you just taking the >pollen from them to give it back later? Why not just let them store it >away for later themselves? I am missing something here. Pollen is often collected for human consumption. Various health benefits are claimed. See http://www.levacapiary.com/pollen.html and several dozen other sites as well. -Tim ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:37:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Mary's questions Mary, in CT, asked two good questions: 1. "When does one go about ordering a new queen to have it for spring? Do you have to order month's in advance?" Spring, around here near Albany NY, is considered to be from April-June. The breeder I deal with is sold out until April 20, and I suspect others are as well. However, if you want a queen in May or June it is just a question of picking up the phone and it will go out the next day! I don't know where in CT you are, but if you are Hartford or North/Northeast of there you are welcome to get in on our club's order, if you like. Queens arrive April 17. Contact me personally if you are interested. 2. "Aren't you just taking the pollen from them to give it back later? Why not just let them store it away for later themselves?" A few thoughts: A. If you are establishing a new hive or new nuc, a pollen patty is one of the best things you can provide. In some conditions it might be irresponsible to not provide extra pollen. Getting that pollen from an existing hive is one of the best and safest things to do. B. Like some other forms of concentrated protein, the nutrient content of pollen can quickly decline. Bees always prefer fresh pollen to that they have stored over the winter, but pollen stored over the winter is far better than no pollen at all. One of the best ways to stimulate a hive to start early brood is to feed it pollen about a month before the natural flow. In your case, this may be feeding in February. A reason for doing so would be to make strong splits in the spring. These strong splits could be used for comb honey production, or just for another hive. Regardless, you could expect to take those splits with no decrease in honey production from the parent hive! C. Pollen, like honey, is one of the best tasting food there is! Providing it is fresh pollen, especially when taken from ones own hives. I hope other also respond to your questions, as they were excellent. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, manufacturer of comb honey equipment for beekeepers and Sundance pollen traps. http://www.rossrounds.com Lloyd@rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 06:47:39 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Tooley Subject: Re: Almond Bloom in California In-Reply-To: <001701c2cbe7$bfe2f040$4cac58d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison wrote: > You can divide most Almond growers into two groups. Those which use sprays > and those which do not. We saw some last minute spraying going on,but I think those who were going to spray had already done so.No problem as long as the little white flowers under the trees arent blooming or have been mowed.Dont know what they are but the bees will work them. > Of course the southern zone and northern zone could be different than in > the central valley which is the area my information comes from. The trees in both the north and south surprisingly seem to bloom fairly close together from what I hear.Never took bees further south so dont really know. ----Mike ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:21:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Anne Frey Subject: Observation hives Keith, .....The population builds up and then we have swarms.... To make it less likely the observation hive will swarm, it helps to remove some field bees. If you can alter the top level so it is easily detachable (maybe with 2 slide-in metal plates to give what remains a roof, and to give a floor to the part you are moving), then you can carry it away even during open zoo hours, with no bees escaping. Take it when there are many many bees (but not the queen)on that top frame of honey. Take it to a beeyard far enough away that they won't fly home, and shake them off. Anne in NY ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:44:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. Greetings I am always a little leery when people talk about *educating the public* about their special interest. Usually this means *persuade them of our point of view*. Beekeepers ought not to be thinking about how to force people to see what they see. We have to be accepted by the public on our own merits. As far as educating them, will you tell them in a small apiary -- say 20 hives -- there are up to one million bees? That this many bees are enough to kill one thousand healthy men? Will you tell them all you have to do is bump into a hive with a lawn mower and you could be covered with stings? Will you tell them that most beekeepers have no control over which breed they keep? Since they don't mark their queens, they can be superseded and replaced by queens with African blood and the beekeeper might not even know it. Will you tell them you have no way to prevent a swarm from issuing on a June day and landing right in the middle of their expensive catered wedding party? You wouldn't let your dog run loose and pester the neighbors, but what about swarms? Or isn't better to try to keep a low profile? The public has a right to live without bee hives too near their homes. We should consider their rights as well as ours. Bees can be kept successfully in out of the way places, hidden from view. If people need the pollination services of our bees, let them rent hives from us, knowing full well the benefit and the risk. pb ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:49:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Vincenc Petruna Subject: White Melilot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anybody know the honey nectar plant White Melilot (Melilotus Albus....), which grows up produces nectar in the first year? Other Melilotus species take two years. Does somebody use it? Any suggestions where can I buy this sort of Melilot? Thanks for the answers, sincerely Vincenc Petruna -- Domaèa stran http://www2.arnes.si/~sscrnomelj/ Debatna skupina http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cebelar/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:10:33 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter & all > I am always a little leery when people talk about *educating > the public* about their special interest. Usually this means > *persuade them of our point of view*. No!, I meant exactly what I said... educating the public... I have no wish to bend the truth or turn everybody into a beekeeper. It is now about 120 years since one in eight households had a 'couple of hives' at the bottom of the garden. At that time there was no need to specially educate people about bees and what they could and could not do. Bees were a fact of everyday life, everybody grew up with them and to a large extent (adequate extent) were knowledgeable about them. Keeping a low profile indicates that there is some kind of threat or danger... It is bad enough that many beekeepers put on 'armour plating' in the form of highly protective bee suits. I believe that beekeepers would not tolerate aggressive or nasty bees if they received more feedback in the way of stings in response to inept handling. They would soon become better beekeepers! (I am not advocating taking risks here, I always suit up, unless I fully 'know' the colony concerned.) I am personally quite proud of my skill as a beekeeper, why should I skulk about in the shadows? As to swarming... We come back to the need for more widespread education. I am often caught out by the bees in this fashion... I do not mind admitting that my bees have swarmed on occasions when I would not have expected it, but many beekeepers see it as some sort of failure and will claim that the 'swarm is not theirs'. Swarming will occur regardless of the ability of the beekeeper, but a swarm should not be a crisis situation... It is one where public relations become important and it gives the beekeeper that is dealing with the swarm a chance to re-assure the public and provide a little education. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:29:06 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Layne Westover Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We hear from Peter Borst: > I am always a little leery when people talk about *educating the public* > about their special interest. Usually this means *persuade them of our > point of view*. . . . > Or isn't better to try to keep a low profile? The public has a right to > live without bee hives too near their homes. We should consider their > rights as well as ours. I don't agree with this point of view. I can only speak from my own personal experience. Let me share some of it with you and make a few comments. When I first wanted to start beekeeping, I wondered whether it was even legal to have bees in the city limits, so I talked to friends and people I knew in order to find out what was legal and what was not. I even called the city government to find out if there were laws or regulations regarding beekeeping within the city limits where I live. Most people were not informed as to what local ordinances there were, even some of the city employees I talked to. That was because there are none where I live. There ARE local ordinances against creating a hazard or a nuisance for our neighbors, but as long as we don't do that, there are no restrictions. I at first imagined that if I went to pick up a hive of bees, there would be a mass stinging incident (of me) and I was terrified by what I saw in my imagination. I had the same fears before I went to collect my first swarm. Such fear was the result of my ignorance and inexperience. As I caught swarms and worked with bees, I learned first hand that my fears were unfounded. Of course there is always the potential of something bad happening to someone somewhere at some time, and we read about it in the newspapers. But if you look at the statistical odds of those things happening to a given person, they are extremely low. As they say about winning the lottery, you have a greater chance of being hit by lightning. You have an even much greater chance of dying in an automobile accident. Why inform people of the worst possible case scenario when it is so unlikely to happen. I suppose I agree with the sentiment that the public has the right to live without beehives too near their homes, IF the bees are causing them problems. Beekeepers have a responsibility to be good neighbors and resolve any problems their bees might cause. I had some neighbors who did not like the fact that I had bees in my yard next to them and told me that they were going to turn me in to the city because they did not believe any one should have the right to keep bees within the city limits. I had given them honey every year and made sure that my bees were gentle and not stinging or causing problems. I also told all my neighbors to be sure and let me know right away if there were any problems, so I felt betrayed by those neighbors. What I ended up doing (bending over backwards trying to be a good neighbor) was to move my bees temporarily, but I moved them back later. Those good (but ignorant) folks moved from the neighborhood and helped make our neighborhood a better place. I don't know if they ever called the city, but if they had, they would have been referred to a beekeeper who was willing to help them solve their problem. The city knows me very well, as I have helped numerous people, and would have referred them to me. The irony of it all. By the way, because of irrigated yards and the types of things planted in our city, I am convinced that the nectar flow and honey production in the city is much better than it is in the countryside, away from urban landscapes. I am also of the opinion that in an area that has the potential of having Africanized bees come in, that the more beekeepers you have, the fewer problems you will have because it will be harder for the Africanized bees to become established because of the competition from managed bees. Nature abhors a vacuum, and if you have no managed bees, it would be very much easier for feral Africanized bees to move into an area and become established. I share that point of view with policy makers. It is scientific. I am still somewhat concerned about what some of my unreasonable neighbors might decide to do since we live in a sue-happy litigious society where ignorant and selfish people try to unjustly benefit from others through immoral and unethical means. So I try to be a good neighbor. In the meantime, I make sure I keep people away from my bees at their home (the bees' home). Foraging bees do not chase people. I take opportunities to allay peoples' fears by sharing my personal experience with them. Fear comes from ignorance and lack of experience. Layne Westover College Station, Texas, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:33:19 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: pech Subject: Re: a quick question from a nubee In-Reply-To: <003201c2cc5a$e8bcb780$0e256118@nycap.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all Yesterday it was close to 60 here in Kentucky. I was going to feed my bees a quick bite, I figured it couldn't hurt. Then I realized that a cold front was on it's way and temps would drop quick overnight. In the end I didn't feed cause I didn't want bees caught outside of the cluster and freeze. Was I right?, of did I just psych my self out. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:14:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Bees in Space From: Chuck Norton To All: >Today, at 10:39 EST (January 16, 2003), three shiny black bee >astronauts (Arizona carpenter bees, Xylocopa c. arizonensis) were >launched from Pad 39-A into orbit on the STS-107 mission onboard the >U.S. Space Shuttle Columbia. The human and pollinator astronauts >will land..... It has been a long time custom in Europe and parts of America to "Tell The Bees" of a beekeepers death. There were in space seven beekeepers who tended their bees and now have departed from this Earth: The Crew OF Columbia. As beekeepers of this wonderful planet Earth, let us take a minute to go to our own hives and Tell the Bees. Telling the Bees Here is the place; right over the hill Runs the path I took; You can see the gap in the old wall still, And the stepping-stones in the shallow brook. There is the house, with the gate red-barred, And the poplars tall; And the barn's brown length, and the cattle yard, And the white horns tossing above the wall. There are the beehives ranged in the sun; And down by the Brink Of the brook are her poor flowers, weed-o'errun, Pansy and daffodil, rose and pink. A year has gone, as the tortoise goes, Heavy and slow; And the same rose blows, and the same sun glows, And the same brook sings of a year ago. There's the same sweet clover-smell in the breeze; And the June sun warm Tangles his wings of fire in the trees, Setting as then, over Fernside farm. I mind me how with a lover's care From my Sunday Coat I brushed of the burrs, and smoothed my hair, And cooled at the brookside my brow and throat. Since we parted, a month had passed,- To love, a year; Down through the beeches I looked at last On the little red gate and the well-seep near. I can see it all now,- the slantwise rain Of light through the leaves, The sundown's blaze on her window-pane, The bloom of her roses under the eves. Just the same as a month before,- The house and the trees, The barn's brown gable, the vine by the door,- Nothing changed but the hives of bees. Before them, under the garden wall, Forward and back, Went drearily singing the chore-girl small, Draping each hive with a shred of black. Trembling, I listened: the summer sun Had the chill of snow; For I knew she was telling the bees of one Gone on the journey we all must go! Then I said to myself, 'My Mary weeps For the dead to-day: Haply her blind old grandsire sleeps The fret and pain of his age away.' But her dog whined low; on the doorway sill, With his cane to his chin, The old man sat; and the chore-girl still Sang to the bees stealing out and in. And the song she was singing ever since In my ear sounds on:- 'Stay at home, pretty bees, fly not hence! Mistress Mary is dead and gone! John Greenleaf Whittier 1807-1892 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:12:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. I kept bees in San Diego from 1974 to 1990. Within San Diego City Limits you have everything from urban cities, suburban and rural neighborhoods, large agricultural holdings and open space. The code there is reasonable and includes the following provisions: * You can't put an apiary closer than 600 feet from somebody else's home, prohibiting commercial beekeeping in most neighborhoods. * You can put one hive as close as 100 feet, allowing hobby beekeeping in most neighborhoods. * They require a 30 foot fire break and a water supply for the bees, since bees often end up gathering water on people's lawns. * They prohibit transporting bees during daylight hours unless they are screened in. (Note: a 100 foot buffer requires about 1 acre. A 600 foot buffer requires about 30 acres) source: San Diego Municipal Code Chapter 4: Health and Sanitation (6-2000) If you can persuade the neighbors that bees are safe, you can get around the rules. But then -- they may change their minds and complain and force you to move at any time. (This happened to me many many times.) Another way around it is to put them behind enough trees so no one knows they're there. Last summer I ran 200 hives in 13 apiaries. The only one I had trouble with was 16 hives in the woods across the street from an elderly couple. We thought the trees would keep the bees away from them. Unfortunately, the couple spent a lot of time in the front of the house gardening and the bees would fly over and sting them. We worked those hives about once a month, so WE weren't riling them up. I think they were mad all the time because of skunks. Skunks can really put a hive in a bad mood all summer. Of course, if your bees are actually causing a nuisance, you are obligated to move them regardless of the codes. pb ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:59:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Yoon Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Layne, Peter, et al, Having read both sides of the issue, I feel how precarious our beekeeping is. Although I have never had any incident with my neighbors, although I live at the outskirt of a city, although my bees are on my and others’ private properties, and most important, although I did serve my community by removing bees, appearing on TV and newspaper, etc.—-I am well aware that a money-mongering tort lawyer can eat me up alive tomorrow, just as he/she would gobble up any small business in California now. Family-owned, generations-old restaurants are sued, right and left, and are going belly up by these vultures and their scams, according to late NPR news. Worse, they charge the business-establishment thousands of dollars, milking profits without labor—-without even actually going to the court. Sure, I am ready to defend myself, arguing to the injured party to prove that they were MY bees that stung him/her; luckily, my apiaries are surrounded by numerous feral colonies, and I know most of their nests. I certainly do not want to buy insurance for my hobby other than the home- owner’s. On the other hand, if someone dies from a mass-stinging incident, I feel someone must pay the family something if the incident had happened in the vicinity of my colonies. Knowing such dilemma, I trod lightly—practicing “defensive beekeeping,” just in case. For instance, I situate my bees in a secluded area, as far away from neighbors as possible, sometimes using double tree-fence lines [forty to seventy feet high] and others in the middle of nowhere surrounded by huge round bales. Out in the country, their water sources are largely ponds and nearby river. All three apiaries are a hair out and away of the city limit to beat any argument through technicality if necessary. Most important, I try to know my bees’ temperament, work accordingly, and handle as gently as I can under the circumstance. Given such precautionary measures, all taken in advance by a beekeeper, I hope the jury members would find me fair should I end up standing before them. A single queen, at times, would produce unevenly tempered workers—-depending on the batch of sperm she had garnered in the open-mating—so that you don’t always have to requeen if your apiary is situated far away from any residence: you are the only one who has to put up with their antics for a while. Yoon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:00:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Skunks can really put a hive in a bad mood all summer. So can ants. allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:00:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul S LeRoy Subject: Question from an old beekeeper MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Has anyone had experience with chemotherapy and receiving bee stings after therapy. Does Chemotherapy remove built up immunity? I have been around beekeeping since childhood with my father then as a hobby beekeeper and have been stung thousands of times with nothing more than swelling if stung on lips, eyes, etc. I am now undergoing chemotherapy for bladder cancer that has spread to my lungs. Doctors say that we will very likely be able to get it under control since it was caught early. They also say that if we get it into remission that I should be able to do the things I like to do which will include working my bees and with those that I have gotten into beekeeping. I would certainly like to correspond with anyone who has undergone chemotherapy and continued to work with bees. Thanks, Paul LeRoy McCormick, S.C. 29835 pleroy@wctel.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:42:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Denise Hubler Subject: winter losses Hello fellow beekeeps, The following is a post I placed on the GardenWeb hoping to find some answers. I thought I would try you all since you are much more experienced with beekeeping. Any help would certainly be appreciated. "Yesterday (in Kentucky)we were blessed with temps in the low 60's with partly sunny skies. Perfect weather to check the bees. It was a sad day in the Luna Apiaries, though. I went into the winter having lost 4 colonies to robbing.(Due to improper feeding methods-lesson learned) Apparently it looks like the robbing is still going on. I do not know if the robbers are from my existing hives or if they have come out of the woods behind the house. I do know that we lost a couple of swarms to mother nature this past summer. I reduced the hive entrances so only one bee can come and go at a time. I fear this will not stop the problem. Does anyone have any suggestions? I considered moving the hives to a new location-some in one spot and the rest in another. Now for the really bad news. Six of my hives were dead. There were many bees with their heads in the cells trying to find honey I guess. The rest of the bees in each hive had fallen to the floor. Before you say "they were starving" let me point out that many of the bees were literally right next to a cell of honey. And I know the bees barely move in any increments at all when it is cold outside. We just finished with a really cold snap where the wind chills were -10 for a few days. When I looked at the bees yesterday they were still moist-not all dried up-which makes me suspect the bees were just recently killed by this bitter cold spell we had. It was especially sad to see the cluster and find the dead queen right in the middle of them. How could I have prevented this? We don't normally wrap hives here in KY and I think if we started doing that then the bees would have a false sense of warmth in the hives and consume all their winter stores. The only solution I could come up with would be to have some straw bales on stand-by and use them to block the wind and help insulate the hives only during the bitter cold snaps. Any thoughts on this? Also, as if the above is not enough, I saw a possum run out of the apiary into the woods. I think I found it's den so if need be I could try trapping it and relocating it. I have suspected some type of varmint messing with the hives by a tell tale "trail" in the leaves in front of the apiary and by entrance reducers on the ground.I know what skunks do to a hive, but what type of damage can a possum do? They are omnivorus-do they scratch at the entrance and get the bees to come out so they can gobble them up like the skunks do? I know this is a long post and I apologize, but I value you alls opinion. I had 18 hives last summer and am now down to 7. this is really discouraging." Thanks, Denise Hubler Luna Apiaries ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Follow-Up Postings: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:34:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Fred Hollen Subject: Re: Observation Hives In-Reply-To: <3E3D224B.2070708@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . > Can't see the queen, but I get the impression that most folks are there to simply see the bees as a colony, not just her majesty. > > Anyone have any other thoughts? Experiences with OB hives in the > educational setting?? > I do beekeeping presentations for various groups, including schools, using a portable 1-frame-wide OB hive tall enought to accomodate 1 deep & 1 medium frame. When I set it up before a presentation, I always include the queen from the hive I take the bees from (and return them at the end of the day). Invariably, the first question is "Where (or Which one) is the queen. FWIW Fred ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:08:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Miller Subject: Business operations... This is a little bit of a different posting but I expect some here dream as big as I, and some are as as big as I dream. It seems that some beekeepers qualify for benefits as a business, farm enterprise, etc.. in ways that I do not know about. I have heard that if you pollinate with 25 hives you qualify for commercial license plates. I have heard that farmers do not need building permits and 110 mph structures also. And somebody mentioned something about "right to farm laws" that meant they could keep bees wherever they wanted. So having said these things, my question is: What do the readers of this forum know about such things? I expect some of these things are state specific, but I am curious. How do I learn about these and other things available to me? How do you operate your beekeeping operation above and beyond backyard beekeeping taking advantage of tax/licensure/ and other laws that those aspiring to do more could learn from? And how can I learn about such things to be more profitable? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:38:12 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do NOT agree with Peter Borst. I strongly agree with both Dave Cushman and Layne Westover. Be a PROUD BEEKEEPER, tell the world about the VALUE of bees. 99% of the public has no idea about the pollination of the fruit and vegetables that we humans eat. Women don't know that a principal ingredient of their lipstick is bees wax. People don't know that cakes made with honey instead of sugar are more moist and stay fresher longer. People don't know that almost no bacteria can live in honey, and hence was once used like iodine, mercurecome ???, and now neosporine. Tell the public all the wonderful things about bees, and put on demonstrations with your bees at the county fair or in your own apiary. For the past 16 years, I have 3 full size colonies of bees in a screen wire cage at the county fair, and 4 times each day for 9 days, I open one of these colonies, describing all kinds of things about the bees and of course show the queen to everyone and I do this dressed only in shoes, shorts, and tee-shirt, and No veil. I have not been stung in 7-8 years and perhaps only 4-5 stings in 16 years. I have big crowds of as many as 200 watching me and LISTENING to me about the VALUE OF HONEY BEES TO MANKIND. Of course, I sell I tremendous amount of MY honey to them and at prices 50% higher than the grocery store. Worry about law suits? If I were sued, my neighbors, fair officials, and some of the demonstration attendees will defend me. You only live once, and I can't be bothered by these "might happen" things. You will find that today's populace knows almost nothing about bees, but they have seen "killer bee" movies, and they are AFRAID. However, if YOU tell them that honey bees DIE when they sting you and hence are NOT aggressive, but only defensive of their home (hive), people lose their fear and start agreeing with you. Many of our "people problem" today about bees is the fact that beekeepers have HIDDEN themselves as a keeper of honey bees rather than tell the world about their bees. THINK POSITIVE! George Imirie Starting my 71st year of beekeeping just 20 miles from the WHITE HOUSE in Washington, DC ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:52:55 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Question from an old beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul, So sorry to hear of your problems! It is awful to get old. My wife died of cancer in December, and she was admitted to the hospital on our 59th wedding anniversary. I am just a scientist, not a medical doctor. However, the great majority of chemo- therapy drugs contain anti-inflammatory compounds which will cancel your sting immunity as long as you take the drug. Once you stop, and start being stung again, you can rebuild your sting immunity. Because of my wife's hospitalization, I had to miss the ABF meeting in Kansas City, my first miss in over 20 years. My age and my five strokes have forced me to cut back on colonies to just 20 now, which I work from the back of a golf cart. 20 keeps me busy, but it is a far cry from the 100+ I had for years. George Imirie Beginning my 71st year of beekeeping just 20 miles north of President Bush's WHITE HOUSE. CERTIFIED EAS MASTER BEEKEEPER ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:56:11 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter In your message of Feb 4th 9:12PM... You mention many restrictions on keeping bees. I'll be quite fair and say I have never found any such restrictions in UK, nor have I found any circumstance whereby such restrictions would be required. > Unfortunately, the couple spent a lot of time in the > front of the house gardening and the bees would fly > over and sting them. We worked those hives about > once a month, so WE weren't riling them up. I think > they were mad all the time because of skunks. > Skunks can really put a hive in a bad mood all summer. > Of course, if your bees are actually causing a nuisance, > you are obligated to move them regardless of the codes. The above is an example of a beekeeper problem, it has very little to do with the bees. If you keep bees in an area where they are likely to be 'upset' by skunks, you have not done your 'homework' and are totally to blame for any incedent that ensues. If bees are causing a nuisance, then of course you are obligated to move them. However I have never come across a valid case of such nuisance. As an experiment you can place an empty hive in a prominent position on your front lawn... sooner or later someone will knock on your door and claim that they have been stung by one of your bees. Once you show them that the hive is empty you will not hear any complaints even if you populate that hive with bees. I no longer keep bees in my back garden at home, because one of my neighbours is paranoid about bees, but in all the years that I did have them there they were within 18" from a public walkway. I know of one occasion when a lady was stung (by a bee that got caught in her hair). I said I know of the occasion, because I was told by another neighbour... no complaint was made by the person that was stung, nor was it ever mentioned to me in conversation with the stung person. A beekeeper is obligated to keep stock that does not have a propensity to sting regardless of whether in a rural or suburban setting. Contrary to widely held belief it is not aggressive bees that get the most honey, however they may be the strongest candidates for robbing. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:57:49 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: tom barrett Subject: Varroa resistance to Apistan/Coumaphos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello All A debate on this subject is now on the Irish List. I am anxious to get an update from American beekeepers on the present status of resistance to miticides. Here in Ireland we do not yet to our knowledge have resistance - varroa was first found in 1998 and it has travelled throughout the country at great speed. But it is only fair to say that in 1997 we thought we did not have varroa and probably had! There is resistance in the UK and it will appear here sooner rather than later. Is it correct that resistance to Apistan is now widespread in the USA and that resistance to Coumaphos is in at least four states? I recently hear that all states that have a Section 18 exemption in place will be able to treat with ApiLife VAR in the Spring of 2003. Please forgive a foreigner's lack of knowledge of USA regulations, but I understand that Section 18 exemption has to do with the registration of Coumaphos as a response to the failure of Apistan/Bayvarol to control varroa. Is the ApiLife VAR registration in response to failure of another treatment in the states where the permission has been given? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Sincerely Tom Barrett Dublin Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:08:28 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: tom barrett Subject: Replacement of Coumaphos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello All I meant to include this question in my previous e mail but it slipped my mind. I heard recently from a UK source that the organophosphates are now outclassed by safer products, and hopefully will all be withdrawn in the near future. Is that true and what is the replacement product? And will resistance to say Coumaphos be thereby solved? As always any replies will be greatly appreciated. Sincerely Tom Barrett Dublin Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 07:09:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. Dave writes If you keep bees in an area where they are likely to be 'upset' by skunks, you have not done your 'homework' and are totally to blame for any incedent that ensues. Reply Not only are there skunks in every nook and cranny of this county, we also have bears. I guess I should move my bees to England. pb ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 07:03:00 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Replacement of Coumaphos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I heard recently from a UK source that the organophosphates are now > outclassed by safer products, and hopefully will all be withdrawn in > the near future. Is that true and what is the replacement product? >From what some say, FGMO ;) allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:26:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Yoonytoons Subject: Re: winter losses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Denise, I am very sorry to hear about your loss. Almost all of us have, at one time or another, experienced similar losses to our misfortunes. If you start feeding the bees with light syrup and pollen supplement—RIGHT NOW— you can easily make up your loss although I would not *press* my bees for gaining numbers. >From your description, though, I deduce the following that they were indeed starved to death, especially if you found the cluster in a half- moon formation, near the top of the frame, with their heads stuck deep into the comb. In many starvation cases, there would be some honey *still left* nearby, combs usually opened. Two factors favor such conclusion in that the dead queen was at the center of the dead cluster and that the robbing had been and is still going on. 1. Certainly a sudden drop in temperature can immobilize the bees so that they could not take advantage of honey available under their nose; however, this scenario is not highly likely given that you live in KY although I do understand the late deep freeze. Other seven surviving colonies, nevertheless, attest against such assumption. 2. If you have not treated your bees in the fall, it could be mites, too, especially tracheal mites in this instance. Even if you did treat, perhaps the medication had little efficacy or you medicated incorrectly. 3. Sometimes possums, skunks, and other nocturnal creatures—or a nasty gale-force wind or an accidental cow-tourist—can *tip* the top, just barely, thus exposing the inner cover hole to elements that the bees could not maintain the ambient temperature, especially under a freeze spell, due to the constant flux of air, marching right through the now exposed vent, since the varmint had already popped off the entrance reducer. In such case, put a heavy cement block atop and use window screen, stapled, to mouse-proof. 4. To figure out if the robbers are coming from the woods or your own colonies, seal off the colonies completely, starting with the one that shows most activity at the entrance. You can visually recognize their movement, standing away in a distance. Once you figured out about their origin, remove the seal immediately. [I do suspect they are your own bees] 5. Duck tape the entrance of the dead colonies in the evening, remove the dead bees away from the apiary, and store the supers indoors, if possible. Freeze the frames a day and reuse them later. 6. Depending where your bees are situated, stacking up box bales [north and west sides only] is a good idea to windbreak. Loosing a few colonies over the winter is not uncommon; take your loss lightly. You have gained much experience through this loss. Should you need more information as to how to *prime* your bees for a strong spring split, contact me privately and please do so immediately since the time is running out fast. Best Wishes, Yoon from Oklahoma ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 07:47:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. George writes: I do NOT agree with Peter Borst. I strongly agree with both Dave Cushman and Layne Westover. Be a PROUD BEEKEEPER, tell the world about the VALUE of bees. 99% of the public has no idea about the pollination of the fruit and vegetables that we humans eat. I am sorry if I stirred up the nest a bit with my comments. My principal point is that one has to at least try to see bees through the eyes of the average person and get a sense of what their rights and expectations are. One cannot simply force bees into their lives. As pollination declines they begin to realize they need bees in their lives. Several people have asked me to put bees in their yards. I don't do this because I don't want to spoil their yards. They wouldn't be able to do a lot of the things they like to do, sit and picnic or whatever, with a big cloud of bees scurrying in and out of the hives. By positioning a large apiary in a field near their homes, they get the bees they need and I get the large buffer I prefer. I don't believe 99% is that stupid about pollination. I have 3 kids in school and they all have studied bees and insects at one time or another. People tend to forget these things as they get older, but I never implied that we shouldn't be in the public eye as to what services bees perform. I just think we ought to consider their rights and not make a nuisance of ourselves. Not assume they are a bunch of dumb TV watchers that think food comes from factories. By the way, I would prefer people would address specific issues and not make blanket statements like "I do NOT agree with Peter Borst". Does this mean you don't agree with anything I ever said? Sounds like it does. I mean, I have had said many things that are not particularly controversial. If you make it personal like that, I just won't bother to comment at all. I believe I have as much to offer as any beekeeper on this list, and if my most serious blunder was to sympathise with the average person, well, excuse me. pb ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 07:42:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If you keep bees in an area where they are likely to be 'upset' by > skunks, you have not done your 'homework' and are totally to blame > for any incedent that ensues. I guess the key here is the "likely to be 'upset' by skunks" part. Presence of skunks does not necessarily mean problems. Years ago, we had some problems with skunks, but in recent years, we have had very little. I see skunks of all ages around the yard and drinking at our pond, yet we seldom see much scratching at the hives. For one thing, we've learned to put on enough boxes early enough to forestall spring crowding and consequent 'hanging out' early in the season. We even ran a mating yard with hundreds of baby nucs a few years back, and still no problem. My wife talks to the skunks when she is working in the garden (she talks to *everything*). Maybe that's the secret. I sure don't know. Keeping mice from around the hives helps, since skunks are mousers, and will dig and tear up winter wraps seeking mice if they smell them, then get interested in the bees. If the bees are tearing out brood and throwing it onto the stoop (disease, starvation, etc.) what skunk can resist such a delicacy, if skunk food is not plentiful elsewhere? For that matter, simply feeding skunks dog or cat food will distract them from your hives, if they have not gotten habituated to beehives, but don't let your neighbours see you doing that. At any rate the one lesson I have learned in beekeeping is that anything that is true right here about bees could easily be *not true* a few hundred miles away. Beekeeping is full of apparent anomalies and local effects. That is the one constant on this list and possibly the main obstacle to beekeepers believing one another's stories. Jerry B reported a documanted anomaly in regard to bees going/not going through pollen scrapers, I saw that in terms of temprament when moving bees from Ontario to Alberta, and Dewey Caron reported something interesting in that regard at a recent meeting I attended. There are tons of tales in the archives. As for what Dr. Caron's comment, what I heard was something like this: AHB cannot be 'Europeanised', and displace EHB pretty well everywhere they go, BUT, they behave very differently in different climates and *can* be bred and modified in temperate regions. What he had though for certain were EHB at higher elevations in Boliva -- areas similar in climate to northern areas of North America -- by their calm and familiarly domestic behaviour, turned out to be AHB when analysed using DNA samples. He projects that AHB will eventually be found living peacefully in managed hives as far north as British Columbia, Canada, but they will behave much like EHB -- assuming I understood him. I bought his book, 'Africanized Bees in the Americas', and have managed to get around to reading about half of the preface so far. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy". Thinking that this should be the new BEE-L motto. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:44:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Bassett Subject: pickup truck lift gates I'm in the process of looking at lift gates for a pickup. Any one have any recommendations for or against any particular brands. I really have to find one that is easy to remove or no higher than the stock tailgate as I also pull a fifth wheel and have marginal clearence. Any information on options etc that would be usefully would also be appreciated. mike bassett Massachusetts, bees finally got out for the first time since middle of Nov. MOnaday ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:45:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Varroa resistance to Apistan/Coumaphos Is it correct that resistance to Apistan is now widespread in the USA and that resistance to Coumaphos is in at least four states? * I think this is true, I don't know if it is documented, but I have seen Apistan resistance here in NY so I believe it is widespread. I recently hear that all states that have a Section 18 exemption in place will be able to treat with ApiLife VAR in the Spring of 2003. Please forgive a foreigner's lack of knowledge of USA regulations, but I understand that Section 18 exemption has to do with the registration of Coumaphos as a response to the failure of Apistan/Bayvarol to control varroa. * Section 18 means that a specific product has been exempted by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) from their usual requirements. Normally, a product is tested, approved and give and EPA registration number. Coumaphos is not registered for use on bees, hence the term "Section 18 exemption". The assumption being either A) the product will become approved and registered OR B) something else will be found that is safer. The exemption applies to the chemical so I don't see how an exemption for coumaphos relates to ApiLife VAR exactly, but if the state accepts the one they'll probably accept the other. Is the ApiLife VAR registration in response to failure of another treatment in the states where the permission has been given? * Not necessarily. Beekeepers can lobby and obtain approval of a specific treatment irrespective of other treatments, but the assumption here is that Apistan is no longer working, coumaphos is too toxic, so another substance is needed. Formic acid received approval for use on bees in the US but there were problems with leaky packaging, so it is not available until they get a better package. In the long run, Formic acid may be the best solution. I have seen it kill 90% of the mites in a hive and it thoroughly evaporates leaving little residue. I don't know if ApiLife VAR is particularly effective. Do you? NY, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:22:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Skunks Allen writes: I see skunks of all ages around the yard and drinking at our pond, yet we seldom see much scratching at the hives. Peter: We do everything we can to prevent bears from molesting the hives (electric fence at every yard) but I don't have a clue how to prevent skunk damage unless it were to put some kind of guards on all 200 hives (we're going to 300 this year). I have just accepted skunk damage and the resultant annoyed bees. In the "good old days" beekeepers put strychnine tablets on the landing boards. Any ideas -- aside from moving to England? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:28:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: winter losses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The following is a post I placed on the GardenWeb hoping to find some answers. I get a ton of mail every year asking 'why did my bees die'. I try to answer, but basically, my best answer is always the same: Find a local mentor. Ask around. Beekeepers are everywhere. I know that I cannot diagnose losses over the internet any better than a doctor can do a cat scan by email. Without seeing and smelling and feeling the bees and hives and environment and quizzing you, *nobody* will be able to do more than guess, and if you are going to solve your problem, you need more than guesses. Please, *everyone*, get a some local experienced beekeeping friends who will look into your hives. Beeginners *need* a local mentor, someone who has kept bees successfully, profitably and without serious incident for a decade or more. I have kept thousands of bees for over thirty years and I am always asking any stray beekeeper that comes along -- no matter how green or how cynical -- to go with me to see my bees and venture opinions. Almost any beekeeper you ask will be more than happy to come and look at your hives. I would, if I were nearby. That's what beekeepers like to do better than anything else: look in other people's hives, compare and advise, so don't think you would be imposing on any real beekeeper in this world that you happened to ask. There are beekeeper groups meeting monthly in almost any part of any country you care to visit, and these are the people who know what is happening locally. A few years back, I was on a busload of beekeepers and we were taken on a ride to see the All American Canal at the US/Mexico border. We were let off at the canal to look around, and -- guess what -- there were a few pallets of hives nearby. I think every beekeeper of that whole lot had to look inside them. No veils, no smoke, all dressed up for the tour. Beekeepers LOVE to look in other people's hives and stop cars by the highway, jump the fence in loafers and dress clothes and lift a few lids -- just to see. Some are too shy, so if you invite one over, I'm betting you'll have a taker, and you'll both learn. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/default.htm Where there is a picture of beekeepers at the All American Canal (somewhere) Was it January 2001, Aaron? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:31:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I would prefer people would address specific issues > and not make blanket statements like "I do NOT agree > with Peter Borst". I agree with Peter Borst. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:39:48 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: pickup truck lift gates In-Reply-To: <200302051444.h15ClOu8005111@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A Tommy lift would be the one you are looking for no welding required bolts on in place of the tail gate. Charlie Harper Michael Bassett wrote: > I'm in the process of looking at lift gates for a pickup. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:43:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Denise's losses IMO, Yoon's comments were very valuable. However, I suspect Denise's losses were not due to starvation or tracheal mites, but to a lack of ventilation. The give-away are the comments about the 'wet' bees. If they appeared damp or wet, they died from the effects of condensation dripping on them. Bees can and do overcome the effects of cold air by shivering their wing muscles. However, if they get wet they cannot overcome this chilling and die. Especially in a mild a climate as exists in Kentucky, a beekeeper should err on the side of 'too much' ventilation, especially at the top of the hive, so the warm moist air can quickly escape rather than condense when it meets the cold air next to the hive cover. Personally, I doubt it is possible to have 'too much' ventilation in Kentucky. Here, near Albany, NY, I go through the winter with an open screen bottom board and the hive cover set back from the hive body by about a 1/2" gap. No problems that I can identify due to cold. I know one guy near here (actually, north of here) who thought he would get rid of two mean hives by overwintering them without covers of any kind! They survived the winter just fine. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, manufacturer of comb honey equipment for beekeepers and Sundance pollen traps. http://www.rossrounds.com Lloyd@rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:05:03 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. In-Reply-To: <200302051247.h15ClOl4005104@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Peter said Several people have asked me to put bees in their yards. I don't do this because I don't want to spoil their yards. They wouldn't be able to do a lot of the things they like to do, sit and picnic or whatever, with a big cloud of bees scurrying in and out of the hives. Let's be careful about sweeping generalizations. I agree, you would not want to put an apiary in an urban yard. But I've seen many urban hives in hundreds of gardens, on patios, even on balconies of high rise apartments in Seattle, Maryland, Portland, San Antonio, New Mexico. We spent several years sampling bees in urban settings for pollution studies. I've seen hives on rooftops, where the biggest threat is to the beekeeper (falling off the roof of a 3 story Victorian house -- a painter built a platform on a steep roof, hung a ladder from a window, and climbed down to work the hives and up with the supers when harvesting honey -- only hives I didn't sample, too scared to attempt the climb on the ladder hanging on ropes). With proper placement, gentle management, and selection of gentle lines of bees, 1-3 hives in a yard or garden pose no such problems as you list above. On the other hand, 50-100 colonies in a yard a few blocks away can be a big problem, if the beekeeper doesn't provide water at the yard, and if the main honey flow resources are skimpy at those times of the year when backyard gardens are in full bloom. You can end up saturating yards with bees up to 1 mile away--I know, we've counted bees in fields in wide open areas of MT, where the nearest bee colonies were up to 1-2 miles away, yet you could see several bees per every square yard of space. Somewhere in my archives, I have photos of bees on tiny balcony patios, just enough room for the hive between the wall and the railing, and 1 chair sitting beside the hives. The apartment residents liked to sit on the chair and watch the bees -- as did their neighbors in adjacent apartments. Cheers Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:17:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathleen Darrell Subject: Re: NEW ZEALAND FREE OF AETHINA TUMIDA (SMALL HIVE BEETLE) In-Reply-To: <000701c2cbe6$1009f5c0$4cac58d8@BusyBeeAcres> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 07:40 PM, Bob Harrison wrote: > > New Zealand has not yet found the SHB but the SHB could be in New > Zealand > but as yet undetected. > Hi All In Nov 2000 we arrived in Christchurch New Zealand from Australia. We had with us several(3) small sample bottles of Tasmanian honey(leatherwood etc) to bring home to try. Several signs and disposal barrels, warning that agriculural products must be disposed of or declared, were available between the gate and customs. We declared the honey to the customs official who referred us to another who offered to keep the honey at the airport until our departure, or destroy it. He explained that NZ doesn't have EFB and it could be imported into the country if one of our bottles spilled. I was impressed with this official's knowledge of honeybees and beekeeping. Of all the countries we have entered ( US, UK, Ireland, Netherlands, Canada, etc) NZ seems to have the the most impressive agricultural security. This doesn't mean that things cannot go wrong (varroa on north island in 2000), but they appear to have their heads screwed on right. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 80W44N still cold(-10 & sunny) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:14:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: muses Subject: winter losses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Around the world with all the mites adn problems one must tighten ones belt and stomach and accept 50% losses. Ive read some places in germany I think it was that were having up to 80% losses. Yes they are panicking and scrambling but really this time of year there is little to be done. Hang in there and just know your only average. And cross your fingers that no new pests come our way! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:28:38 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scott Jeffreys Subject: Re: Skunks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Carpet tack strips are cheap and can be nailed business side up to pallets or scrap plywood in front of hives. Skunks do their killing in depressions dug in front of the colony. Lead pills are a final solution. Here in California, urban encroachment has resulted in loss of habitat for owls - which is the primary natural predator of the skunk. Skunks are now extremely common. Here in CA virtually every skunk has rabies. I encourage every beekeeper to build a owl house and place it high in a tree or protected spot to provide sanctuary for this very valuable natural skunk control. Regards, Scott Jeffreys California beekeeper and sustainable agriculture enthusiast ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:49:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. With proper placement, gentle management, and selection of gentle lines of bees, 1-3 hives in a yard or garden pose no such problems as you list above. Right, there are a lot of variables. In fact, I had three hives on my land all summer and no one but me got stung. But I spent a month thinking about where to put them. I wanted 1) easy access, 2) plenty of sun, 3) a flight path that would not cross the areas where the kids play. My outyards have at least 16 hives and we are moving toward larger yards, at least 24 hives. This many bees cannot be placed on a 2 or 3 acre lot without creating a broad swath of foragers heading in the direction of the flowers. Trouble is, which direction? Sometimes you can predict which way they will go, often not. I also have an apiary in the middle of a college campus. This has a tall circle of trees around it so they fly straight up. Still, people have gotten stung by them and I only keep them there because my department wants them there. I would rather not have to worry about who might get stung after I have taken off the honey or whatever. I don't put bees in people's yards any more. In my youth I did, but I got tired of having to go take off the supers in the middle of the flow and move the hives out when I was already too busy. That yard I mentioned which stung the neighbor, we moved it in July in the middle of a WILD lightning storm -- but that's another story ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:06:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Skunks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst wrote: > I don't have a clue how to prevent > skunk damage Any ideas -- > aside from moving to England? Feed them. I'm serious. Have you ever watched a skunk eating bees? It's awfully painful. I'm sure it is not their first choice. It is like many things. If you can look throught he eyes of your enemy, and see his problem, you may be able make a new friend. The skunks around here only bother bees when times are tough for skunks. Usually the offender is a mother skunk feeding kittens. Desperation starts them eating bees, then habit forms. Of course your (some of) your human neighbours may be horrified to see skunks following you around at feeding time, so keep a low profile :) "He has BEES, and now SKUNKS? What a wierdo!" allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:06:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Skunks In-Reply-To: <200302051522.h15DtgoY007223@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >Peter: >We do everything we can to prevent bears from molesting the hives (electric >fence at every yard) but I don't have a clue how to prevent skunk damage >unless it were to put some kind of guards on all 200 hives Instead of using standard electric fence wire, use the mesh fence available. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:39:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Skunks Feed them. I'm serious. Have you ever watched a skunk eating bees? It's awfully painful. I'm sure it is not their first choice. It is like many things. If you can look throught he eyes of your enemy, and see his problem, you may be able make a new friend. I AM feeding them! And they're not my enemy. I don't really care if they eat a few bees, I only mind when the hives get ornery. But seriously folks, how am I to feed them? How often would I have to go around to 15 or 20 yards and leave the picnic baskets? pb ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:53:42 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Mary's questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd Spear wrote: > > >2. "Aren't you just taking the pollen from them to give it back later? Why >not just let them store it away for later themselves?" > >A few thoughts: > >A. If you are establishing a new hive or new nuc, a pollen patty is one of >the best things you can provide. > > Hello Lloyd , Mary and All, > Spring build up is very critical to success during the season. Good pollen is essential for larva food.. I was popping the tops off of some of my hives yesterday. They are in great shape. I noticed a bee with pollen on its legs. It was Alder pollen. Wow , you might think that was great. The fact is, Alder pollen is missing two amino acids and will Not keep a larva alive. So not all pollen is equal. I only do fresh pollen. I freeze it. I keep some aside for the bees in the spring for feed. After last year , I keep the pollen for the bees first then sell what is left. This year I will be getting more pollen traps. Beekeeping is putting what the bees need before them and let them do the rest. Best Regards Roy > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:23:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. In-Reply-To: <200302051649.h15Dtgtw007223@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Peter, for several years I had 100 colonies in an apiary on the edge of the campus. No problems with stings, I had an 8 ft locked fence around the whole yard. We worked them on the weekends, did experiments during the week. Only complaint, in the fall the bees left yellow deposits on the hoods of the white patrol cars. The security officers didn't like that -- but the solution was for them to park on the other side of the lot, not next to the yard. We finally moved, not because of problems but because renovation of a nearby house. The house was turned into a conference center and the DONOR didn't like the looks of a bee yard. So, we moved out to our west campus -- not nearly as handy, but probably a better place for the bees. Jerry Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 13:26:28 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: Question from an old beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/5/2003 2:32:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, GImasterBK@AOL.COM writes: > am just a scientist, not a medical doctor. However, the great majority of > chemo- > therapy drugs contain anti-inflammatory compounds which will cancel your > sting immunity as long as you take the drug. Once you stop, and start > being > stung > again, you can rebuild your sting immunity George, Are you saying that anti-inflammatory compounds make bee stings worse? I just got stung for the first time this year, yesterday. I was getting out of my suit and one flew into my hair. I have curley hair, so I ran to the bathroom to get my fork like comb. Combed her right on to my right thigh where she got me. My bite is hard, red and hot. Looks like a fried egg! I take anti-imflammatory drugs for my arthritis. kathy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 13:30:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: winter losses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit muses wrote: >Around the world with all the mites adn problems one must tighten ones belt >and stomach and accept 50% losses. > I am sure there will be others that comment on this thought, but if I had 50% losses every winter, I would have quit long ago. Truth is, those kind of losses reflect more on how we keep bees than on mites or other factors. I can invariably trace my losses back to something I did which are ignorance, lack of treatment, failure to requeen a weak hive or plain laziness by not bothering to correct a glaring problem. And Peter is still wrong :) Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:10:55 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Skunks In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030205120422.02320258@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" All, for small yards, there is an easy fix. Its probably not well suited for large apiaries -- although we run up to 70 hives this way. There are up front costs, but since the fix lasts for many years, it pays back in honey, hive temperment, etc. We've tried tack strips, wire mesh, pepper powder -- nothing is a sure thing. The hungry skunk doesn't mind a few pointed tacks or sneezing, and will dig under and pull away wire excluders or fences. What does work is to elevate the hives. Skunks can't climb very well. Our University bee yard sits right on the edge of the Clark Fork river. Lots of skunks, and they can really do a job on the hives. We built over-sized sawhorse stands. To save costs, we build long stands, topped with planks. Every other hive faces the opposite direction or is skewed at an angle, so we cut down on drift, as illustrated below. /|\ \|/ /|\ \|/ (orientation of hives on planks on top of x-brace sawhorse stands) Each hive hangs ten over the edge of the stand (the entrance cantilevers out into space). The stands are taller than a skunk standing on its hind legs. If a skunk somehow manages to crawl up onto the stand, it still can't get at the bees because the entrances stick out past the stands. Absolutely NO SKUNK damage or droppings full of bees in this yard. Even a chain link fence around hives on a concrete pad didn't keep the skunks out -- I suspect that they squeeze through between the locked gate and the post. But the stands work. There's another benefit, if you don't put on too many supers, you can work and inspect the hives without having to bend over as much. Best thing we ever did. If you insist on piling on the supers, leave room for a box and your truck. Stand on the box, pull the supers, and lift onto your adjacent truck bed. Now, none of this works for bees on pallets UNLESS you put the pallets on stands. Two other benefits -- keeps the entrances out of the weeds and provides some flood protection. Cheers Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 13:11:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bell Teresa Y Civ OC-ALC/MASBC Subject: pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" can I use pollen from the health food store that is supplied by a apiary locally? teresa okla ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:23:04 -0500 Reply-To: lhhubbell@johnstown.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leland Hubbell Organization: Tekoa Subject: Re: Skunks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have had good results at deterring skunks by placing a piece of stiff screen wire (hardware cloth) in front of the hives. Make it as wide as the hive, and long enough to extend both just under the hive and stick out in front like a landing strip. One of the ways skunks catch the bees is to roll them in the dirt in front of the hive. I could always tell when the skunks were working the hives by the tell-tale bare and scratched area on the ground in front of the hives. The screen wire makes this technique difficult. I can't confirm, but suspect that any scratching of the screen gets the quick attention of the guard bees. It is simple to make, and easy to use. And it works for me.. Leland Hubbell, Central Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:15:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mary Kellogg Subject: Re: Question from an old beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, I am a family physician. Can't help chiming in to clear some misconceptions. As far as I know, Chemo drugs can supress one's immune system and inflammatory response. The same is true for anti-inflammatories like Prednisone (steroids), but not really for things like Motrin, Advil, Celebrex. This means that, if you are stung, your body won't mount the same response if you are on those drugs/meds. The inflammation (and pain) around the sting site would be lessened. You don't completly wipe out your ability to mount a response unless you are on significant doses of meds. Also, once you are off the meds, your immune response should recover. I would think that the benefits of venom therapy would be lessend as long as you are on the chemo drugs, but it should come back. I'm not an expert on venom therapy, however. Wishing you luck with your treatments. Mary in CT ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:57:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Question from an old beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy E Cox wrote: > > >My bite is hard, red and hot. Looks like a fried egg! I >take anti-imflammatory drugs for my arthritis. > Ibuprofen (and similar drugs) is one of the problem drugs that can cause increased sensitivity to stings. I do not know what the level of dosage is that can bring on problems but for me it was a matter of a couple of weeks. I did have a mild allergic reaction (hives) that I had never had before. I had to take ibuprofen because of muscle inflammation, but quit and shifted to Tylenol and aspirin and have had no problems since. BTW- I do sting myself twice a year for arthritis, per directions of Charlie Mraz. I discount most "alternative medicine", but sings did work for me dramatically. (Could not figure out why I was fairly pain free in the summer and not in the winter until we invited Charlie to our Annual Meeting, then figured out it was the few bees that got past my armor plate.) Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 13:27:51 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Blane White Subject: Re: Skunks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter, You asked how to prevent skunk damage. My experience is that colonies raised up on stands somewhat higher than the usual stand are seldom bothered by skunks. I am talking about raising the colonies about 8 inches off the ground with some sort of stand. If raised hives are being still bothered a skunk guard of wire fencing tacked to the front of the hive has ended the problem. The guard can be either a wire mesh fence attached and rolled over the entrance so the skunks cannot get at it or a strip of carpet tack strip attached by the entrance with the prongs upward to discourage the scratching. Both seem to work so you get to choose based on your preference and logistics. FWIW blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:10:54 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: NEW ZEALAND FREE OF AETHINA TUMIDA (SMALL HIVE BEETLE) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Darrell said: Of all the countries we have entered ( US, UK, Ireland, Netherlands, Canada, etc) NZ seems to have the the most impressive agricultural security. This doesn't mean that things cannot go wrong (varroa on north island in 2000), but they appear to have their heads screwed on right. I agree! My close friend Sharon Gibbons (Missouri commercial beekeeper) toured NZ last year teaching about varroa control and she told me of the tight agriculture security. This type of security ONLY prevents people from bringing in beekeeping pests on their person. Varroa apparently entered the country another way. The hypothesis presented by Tim in response to my post was told to Tim by researchers on a U.S. tour. Many hypothesis as to how the spread of bee pests happens exist. Ever since Dr. Kerr admitted he smuggled African queens out of Africa to Brazil we assume the practice is widespread. I travel in the circles of the outlaws of beekeeping and have NEVER been told they brought queens or bees in illegally and many of my friends have been all over the world looking at beekeeping operations including over ten trips to Brazil to look at AHB. I am close friends with several bee inspectors on both coasts. They constantly catch and look at swarms around sea ports. One of the first things Florida bee inspectors wanted to find out was if small hive beetle traveled in swarms with bees. The answer was yes! (D.V. Florida bee inspection service 1998). Florida port swarm monitoring: Tampa Tribune 2/1/2003 http://www.tampatrib.com/MGAGKJBOLBD.html Bob ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:20:37 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Skunks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My experience is that colonies raised up on stands somewhat higher > than the usual stand are seldom bothered by skunks. I am talking > about raising the colonies about 8 inches off the ground with some > sort of stand. Maybe that is why we seldom have trouble any more. We use grocery pallets (40 x 48") or custom bee pallets under our hives. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:05:03 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Denise Hubler Subject: Re: Denise's winter losses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd, I did fail to mention my ventilation system I was using. A half inch rock or stick stuck on one side of the outer cover. Would this not have been enough ventilation? Denise ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:43:40 -0500 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: BATTLE Subject: NEW ZEALAND FREE TO CONTINUE DELUDING ITSELF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Someone at the NZ MAF said: > New Zealand remains free of the beehive pest Aethina tumida Apparently, so does Australia. The most recent word on the subject is that Australia has a different, but similar beetle. Since it looks so different to the naked eye, it may even get a different name. > The New Zealand Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry (NZ MAF) wish to > advise that New Zealand is free of A tumida, and has stringent border > controls to prevent the entry of pests, backed up by a nation-wide beehive > surveillance programme. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: An Absence of Proof Is NOT Proof of Absence It should be no surprise that this philosophy works as well for bee pests/diseases as it does for "weapons of mass destruction", since bee pests/diseases ARE "weapons of mass destruction". > MAF is aware that some international importers of honey bees assume that > pests and diseases which are found in Australia will also be found in New Zealand. Many of us outside New Zealand have had enough schooling to read, write, do sums, and tell the difference between land and ocean on a map or globe. Some of us have even noticed the time zone differences between NZ and Oz. Everyone is becoming aware that some international exporters of honeybees assume that pests and diseases not found by MAF are not present in New Zealand. We keep waiting for the next shoe to drop, since a monitoring program that misses varroa for years can miss just about anything else. > In fact, New Zealand is separated from Australia by over 2000 km of ocean. This level of protection should let everyone in New Zealand rest easy. Is it any wonder that they rest of us want the same level of protection currently enjoyed by New Zealand, where port-of-entry inspection is the rule, rather than the exception? Tongue firmly planted in cheek, jim ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:00:01 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Question from an old beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Kathy, No, anti-inflammatory drugs do NOT make stings worse. However, most beekeepers develop some immunity to stings each year, and generally, the more times one gets stung, the more immunity the body develops. The problem is that anti-inflammatory drugs negate that immunity that one has developed each year, and that person has to start all over to re-develop it. The sting you got is PERFECTLY NORMAL - red, swollen, sore, and hard, It will disappear in a few days and then it will itch like mad for 2-3 days. All perfectly normal. Often, beginners, scared, visit an allergist about these things, and 90% of the time the allergist tells them to STOP beekeeping. This is because 99% of ALL allergists don't known the first thing about honey bee stings! Of course, they had to learn about them to pass an allergist test in school, but they did not pay much attention because they wanted to go where the MONEY is - treating HAY FEVER. A personal story: I started raising bees in June 1933, and became highly skilled because of my interest in Science (retired atomic nuclear physicist), and did not get stung very much even though I had 60 colonies in 1963, thirty years later. One day, I had a bad situation in my apiary and got about 50-60 stings. In a few minutes, I became a little short of breath, so I went to the local hospital, who gave me a shot of adrenaline and told me to STOP beekeeping. Shortly after, I was told about the two Ph.D. and M.D. scientists, Golden and Valentine, at Johns Hopkins University who did NOTHING except research on bee and wasp stings. JH is only 45 miles from my house, so I went to see them. They simply told me that I was not getting ENOUGH STINGS, and what happened to me was normal. Their prescription was "get stung almost every day including the winter". I have been doing that the past 40 years, rarely wear a veil, work my bees in shorts and no shirt in the hot summer, and I never swell or itch unless I am stung in the eyelid, inside my ear, or my lip. You said you liked my PINK PAGES. You will NEVER become a beekeeper if you wear gloves. Gloves make bees sting you. Work bare-handed, get a few stings (that will teach you what you are doing wrong), and you will develop some immunity to stings depending on how many you get. By the Way, our BEE INSPECTORS are prohibited from wearing gloves, because of transfer of disease; and most bee inspectors are sting immune because they get stung on their hands almost every day. Even though I don't wear a veil very often, I am foolish and wrong. I tell all students to ignore what I do, but do what I say - WEAR A VEIL! But get rid of those gloves! Almost forgot - The pain of a bee sting which is intense for perhaps 1 minute is just as bad when you have been stung thousands of times as the first sting, but that is a small price to pay for all the hours of pleasure that I receive from daily trying to learn more about bees, savoring my success, and finding the JOYS OF BEEKEEPING. I hope I have helped. George Imirie Certified EAS Master Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:47:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Cara & Tom Patterson Subject: Re: update on Aurora, Co In-Reply-To: <97.33aad85e.2b71e124@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The City Council Committee meeting today voted 2:1 against making an ordinance to allow the keeping of honeybees in residential areas. The city will be restricting beehives to areas zoned for agriculture. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:37:51 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: NEW ZEALAND FREE TO CONTINUE DELUDING ITSELF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Fischer wrote > The most recent word on the subject is that Australia has a different, but similar beetle. > Since it looks so different to the naked eye, it may even get a different name. In an attempt to stop the misinformation being spread around on this subject, I would inform the list that taxonomic entomologists have identified it as Aethina tumida. DNA shows it to be the Durban strain of Aethina tumida. This is different to the two (2) strains known to be present in the USA and others that exist in various countries in Africa including Egypt. This information has been freely made available to all who have asked or read the reports. If some taxonomic entomologist wants to give it a new name, I suppose it will depend whether that person is a lumper or splitter. The difference is from one person's observations. I believe the person involved is from California and I thought California was free of SHB. My observations of the SHB present here and those shown on various websites look the same to me but then I am not a taxonomic entomologist. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:37:32 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Claire Chavasse Subject: Re: Question from an old beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Paul, I see that you have had several replies answering you query about Chemotherapy removing built up immunity. It is a subject I know nothing about. I received Chemotherapy between February 1995-June 1996, initially at 7-10 day intervals. I am a hobbiest beekeeper and during that time I continued to work my colonies, sometimes with help sometimes on my own. I got stung occasionally, but don't remember reacting any more severely than usual. But then my drugs would have been very different to yours. However I credit my recovery from Cancer to two things, medical science and my bees. Not certain what proportion to allocate to each! I found lifting off a crown board and just entering the bees' world, shut out other worries that I might have had at the time. I tired more quickly, so I paced myself. Good luck Paul and I hope that you will continue to enjoy your bees. Claire Chavasse, Co. Waterford, Ireland. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 04:49:37 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: NEW ZEALAND FREE TO CONTINUE DELUDING ITSELF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > This information has been > freely made available to all who have asked or read the reports. If > some taxonomic entomologist wants to give it a new name, I suppose it > will depend whether that person is a lumper or splitter. That is true. I think this information was available, but was overlooked or considered of minor import by some, compared to the question of whether the beetle is widespread in Oz, whether it can be located accurately and contained, the chance of it getting into packages, and other such more pressing matters. Whether it is a significant factor, now that it appears fairly certain that the beetle will show up somewhere, sometime, in some export package is a good question. The confusion comes from the use of the word "variety", I orginally used this word in it's lay sense when reportiing Shannon Wooten's comments at the ABF meeting. As it happens, to biologists, the word 'variety' appears to have a technical meaning that is considerably more specific than the meaning it has to non-biologists. As I understand it now, the correct word -- in the opinion of those studying the matter -- might have been 'strain'. If my choice of words has caused confusion, I, of course apologise. The fact remains, however that the beetle in Oz is observedly different, and all the differences are not completely known. I have more comments on this matter, and more, on the current page of my diary site, as well as some info on the protocols Aus is offering to try to assure Canadians about the beetle and the curent status of the proposed importation of Australian packages this year. Here is an excerpt from the recent comments of an Australian authority: --- "Gene sequencing work has been done on the Australian strain of small hive beetle. The work was done in the light of a US study on a large sample (some 140) of strains there which showed that broadly, the USA has two source strains of small hive beetle. The sequence found here was dissimilar to the US strains but identical to a strain found in Durban, South Africa, which had previously been characterised. For that reason, we suspect that the Australian beetle originated from southern Africa somewhere. These differences are are of limited to the genetic sequences. We are aware of some misinformed discussion that the beetle in Australia is "a different variety" from the US beetle but this is not true. We do not have sufficient information to determine whether the Australian strain is more or less damaging than the US strains. The amount of damage from small hive beetle seen here seems to be less than that reported in Florida in recent times but it is too early to confirm! this subjective observation..." --- These matters can be very difficult to decide. It is extremely hard to be objective, since all the facts are difficult to come by. Discussion and analysis involves speculation, and speculation can become very subjective. There is a lot of money and opportunity at stake, as well as the potential for an unpredictable amount of disruption in the honey houses and apiaries of countries receiving the beetle, should SHB be exported with package bees to regions where they are not known. There will be winners and losers, and there is fear and there is bravado. Somewhere in the middle is truth, but the real truth will remain hidden until long after the decisions that must be made are finalised, if it is ever completely known. The decison must ulimately be made by humans balancing the estimated risks against the estimated rewards and, by necessity, will be somewhat artbitrary. No matter what is decided, somebody won't be happy. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 06:59:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: muses Subject: update on Aurora, Co MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How do they skirt the federal rules that prohibit that? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:49:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: White Melilot >>Does anybody know the honey nectar plant White Melilot (Melilotus Albus....), which grows up produces nectar in the first year? This plant was discovered in the US and named "Hubam Clover". It is apparently a variety of White Sweet Clover (Melilotus Albus). It was offered for sale to beekeepers in the early 20th century. I don't know if it is worthwhile to purchase seed to raise nectar plants. If you can sell the hay you might see a return. See you in Ljubljana in August! Peter Borst ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:16:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: update on Aurora, Co In-Reply-To: <009e01c2cdd7$41067480$5975af3f@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:59 AM 2/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: >How do they skirt the federal rules that prohibit that? Unfortunately they can pass any ordinances they want. It's usually up to the courts to decide if they are valid and enforceable, and that usually takes a lawsuit. And while CO's right-to-farm law gives you the right to recoup court costs and lawyers fees if found invalid you would either have to pay the fees up front or find a lawyer who would be willing to get paid only when/if he won. -Tim ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:51:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Denise and ventilation Denise said "A half inch rock or stick stuck on one side of the outer cover. Would this not have been enough ventilation?" I would have thought that would be sufficient ventilation, but would have been certain had the rock been placed under the inner cover. Denise I recall you said the dead bees appeared wet. Back when I used to loose hives to poor ventilation, that was exactly the appearance they had. Later in the spring, blue mold would actually grow on them. How could they have become wet if not from condensation? Perhaps for some reason the hole in the inner cover did not 'work'...was not large enough to let the warm moist air escape before it condensed. I can't really speculate, except that if the bees were wet before they died, that almost surely is what killed them. Don't get me wrong, I have known bees to survive thunderstorms and rain for weeks, apparently without harm. But that is far different from a cold drip preventing them from shivering to maintain the cluster temperature. There is no potential harm to the added ventilation, no downside. At least in your climate. Try it. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, manufacturer of comb honey equipment for beekeepers and Sundance pollen traps. http://www.rossrounds.com Lloyd@rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:19:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Gloves George wrote: You will NEVER become a beekeeper if you wear gloves. Gloves make bees sting you. Work bare-handed, get a few stings (that will teach you what you are doing wrong), and you will develop some immunity to stings depending on how many you get Greetings I used to think this was true. I used to get 50 or more stings a day and think nothing of it. But when I got this job at the bee lab I was introduced to latex dishwashing gloves. These are not *sting proof*, but bees don't seem to sting them very often, and when they do, it doesn't hurt. I can do almost anything I can do bare-handed including catching queens. They also keep my hands from getting covered with propolis. If the weather is warm and sunny, I go bare-handed. But it isn't like that a lot of the time, and with a large number of hives to work, I often have to bother them during bad weather. This is where gloves are useful. I buy them by the gross now and throw them out when they get too sticky or ripped. I still get stung enough to keep up my immunity, but if I am getting more than one every couple of minutes, it's time to throw on the gloves. George is right, of course, that the stings will make you more careful and a better beekeeper. But there are many times that no amount of care will prevent the bees from stinging. If you only have a couple of hives, you can just not work them when they are edgy, but if you have to go in on a bad day -- try the latex gloves. (I also wear coveralls all the time now, but that's as much to keep from staining my regular clothes as anything). pb ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:49:04 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Question from an old beekeeper In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" George, nice summary of bees and allergies. One of our local allergist worked with beekeeper families, so he's up to speed. He turned around one of my students who began to react badly and she went on to graduate work with bees. Overall, I agree with you. Most emergency room staff also think that a normal reaction means that people should give up beekeeping. Somewhere I have a book on the topic. It warns that shortness of breath, racing heart beats, or swelling involving TWO major joints (e.g. extending from hand past the elbow) should be attended to immediately. Don't know about you, but I've never had that degree of swelling, although I saw it in my father many years ago when he got stung on the finger from a wasp on the steering wheel of a tractor. The swelling puffed up his hand and stopped at his wrist watch (leather band). When he removed the watch, the swelling rolled up his arm like a wave to his shoulder. Naturally, we took him to the emergency room. All in all, better safe than sorry. But be sure the person attending you knows something about bee venom and what's truly an allergic reaction. Finally, you said "The pain of a bee sting which is intense for perhaps 1 minute is just as bad when you have been stung thousands of times as the first sting, but that is a small price to pay for all the hours of pleasure that I receive". Like you, my stings rarely swell, never itch. If the stinger hits a nerve ending, it still hurts (especially on the ear lobes). However, I often don't feel stings in my hands or arms, or only feel a small prick. Its not unusual for me to look down at the end of a day and see a stinger or two in my fore arms and can't remember having been stung. Wonder if that's true of others? Jerry Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:27:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Janet Montgomery Subject: Re: Denise and ventilation MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I used to ventilate under the outer cover until one year I opened the hives on a warm January day and found that the cold air was condensing around the inner cover hole and dropping moisture directly down on to the cluster. Since then, I ventilate under the inner cover with 1/8 inch space (2 - 16 penny nails) That allows the moisture to exit around the sides or to condense away from the cluster. The 1/8 spacing seems to equal the same area as the inner cover hole. I no longer have problems with moisture I have done this in Mid Ohio and the mountains of NC Dan Veilleux Vilas, NC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:00:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: White Melilot In-Reply-To: <200302061249.h16ChKlA018070@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > White Melilot (Melilotus Albus....) > >This plant was discovered in the US and named "Hubam Clover". It is >apparently a variety of White Sweet Clover (Melilotus Albus). It was offered >for sale to beekeepers in the early 20th century. I don't know if it is >worthwhile to purchase seed to raise nectar plants. If you can sell the hay >you might see a return. I once knew a beekeeper (now gone) who planted 50 acres to white sweet clover. Argentinian Rape was planted with it. Rape yielded the first year, and the clover for several years thereafter. He claimed to get a good crop of honey from his home yard due to this planting. Note: I believe it a bad plan to make hay from sweet clover. It can be pastured, but the drying process creates compounds similar to cumarin, and the animals can bleed to death internally. I think annual sweet clover would act the same as the biennial variety. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 08:13:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: walter weller Subject: Re: Skunks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cinder blocks under the hives work fine for us. No skunk problems. Walter Weller > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:36:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: muses Subject: update on Aurora, Co MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim, Would it not be worth the efforts to contact others with vested interest such as county extension offices and even bee lab folks in the country. If you could find an advocate that was being paid by someone else to accomplish the same goals you could skip the out of pocket part. In that case, they coudl reach a compromise and not go the legal way. Are they even aware of the federal laws on the books? Quite often they think nothing exists, they dont mean to violate anything but just dont have enough interest to dig deep. You could also draft a press release. Newspapers love them. free news. The more notice you draw the better especially when all seems lost at the git go, you truly have nothing to lose. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:34:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Gloves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > You will NEVER become a beekeeper if you wear gloves. > I used to think this was true. I used to get 50 or more stings a day and > think nothing of it. But when I got this job at the bee lab I was > introduced to latex dishwashing gloves. I realise that some like to have simple rules for everything, but beekeeping is not simple. Everything, from the beekeeper in question, to the bees, the climate, and the locality are variable. Like many, or perhaps most, categorical statements regarding beekeeping, the original pronouncement is easily demonstrated to be false. There is an element of truth, but, if one considers that some people have skin conditions, some work on Africanized bees, and that it is obvious that there are other good reasons to wear gloves, at least some of the time, and that there are many good beekeepers who always wear gloves, and we must judge the statement false. As for me, I used to always work without gloves and also without a bee suit, but as I get older, my skin is not what it once was. I find that, if I wear gloves, my hands remain in much better condition, since washing off wax, propolis, etc. dries the skin and makes my hands rough and sore. A white suit keeps the sun from injuring my skin (and also enhances the appearance that I know what I am doing). I suggest that the original statement might be amended to something like, "Working without gloves can make a person a better and more sensitive beekeeper, but there are good reasons to use gloves at times, and a wise beekeeper who works barehanded keeps gloves handy in case things don't go as expected". Different strokes... allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:07:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Communications with UM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings: We are shaking out some new technologies in an effort to explore new ways of communicating with beekeepers and others. If you go to our web page at http://beekeeper.dbs.umt.edu/bees/beecams.htm you will find two pathways into our conference room. 1. A web camera that's on all the time. We can use that in conjunction with a speaker phone on the table. Call us, log into the web camera from your browser, and you can see and hear us. Of course, the slower your internet connection, the more jerky the video of us we will be. Bit of a jerry-rig system, but the phone is clear and the image is also clear and you don't need any special software. http://drone.dbs.umt.edu/view/view.shtml -- camera address 2. An ACCESS GRID CONFERENCE ROOM -- if you work for a company, university, or agency with access to high speed internet and have either an Access Grid Conference Room or are runnig an AGN Personal Interface to the Grid (PIG), you can participate in two-way video/conferencing with us. Currently, we are awaiting an upgrade to our internet connection (faster port on the wall, we expect to have a Gigapop soon). Until then, we will operate in unicast only mode. When everything is in place, we can hold multi-cast conferences with anyone in the world with an AGN. Currently, there are AGNs at Motorola, Ford Motor, several federal agencies and labs, many universities. We know that there is a live at all times room in the Netherlands. We'd really like to know if any of you out there have access to this technology. Cheers Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:36:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Question from an old beekeeper In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030206084904.00ef1140@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > Its not unusual for me to look down at the end of a day and >see a stinger or two in my fore arms and can't remember having been stung. >Wonder if that's true of others? Certainly is with me. Sometimes on my neck too. Then...there are those spots...yours is the ear lobe? Mine is my nose septum. Sometimes I wonder if they see that area differently. They sure are drawn to it. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:47:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: This made CNN about an hour ago.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" U.S. SEIZES MORE HONEY TAINTED WITH ANTIBIOTIC February 5, 2003 Reuters WASHINGTON - The U.S. Food and Drug Administration was cited as saying on Wednesday that nearly 185,000 pounds of honey imports were seized in Texas because of contamination with a human antibiotic banned from U.S. food products. The containers of honey seized from "Unnamed Suspect" in Texas contained traces of chloramphenicol, an antibiotic drug used by physicians as a last resort to treat life-threatening infections. The drug is not widely used because it can cause a disease known as aplastic anemia, in which the body's bone marrow stops making enough healthy blood cells. Chloramphenicol is prohibited in all U.S. food and animal feed products by the FDA. The seized honey was stored in 266 drums, each containing 639 pounds, and five totes, each weighing 3,000 pounds, the FDA said. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:05:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Karen Oland Subject: Re: Business operations... In-Reply-To: <200302050208.h1500etC016356@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: Joe Miller > > It seems that some beekeepers qualify for benefits as a business, farm > enterprise, etc.. in ways that I do not know about. I have heard that if > you pollinate with 25 hives you qualify for commercial license plates. I > have heard that farmers do not need building permits and 110 mph > structures also. And somebody mentioned something about "right to farm > laws" that meant they could keep bees wherever they wanted. > So having said these things, my question is: What do the readers of this > forum know about such things? I expect some of these things are state > specific, Commercial license plates usually cost more (in states I have been in), insurance rates are higher also, states that don't collect personal property tax on your vehicle usually do if you have commercial plates, etc. On the other hand, you can depreciate the vehicle and take off actual expenses (in proportion to personal use), rather than straight mileage. of course, you can do that with only one hive, so long as you show a profit and persuit of a profit 3 years out of 5 (hard to do with even 25 hives, perhaps). I doubt that having any number of hives exempts you from building codes -- but barns generally have lesser requirements than houses (but you might have to have separate bathroom facilities for your now commercial enterprise, with handicapped access and parking). Right to farm and farmer exemptions can apply no matter how many hives you have, depending on the state (TN requires 15 contiguous acres and over $1500 value of goods produced (not profit or sales -- you could produce $1500 of hay) and gives you a reduction in property taxes). Some states specifically exempt livestock (usually including bees) from being declared a nuisance, unless they cause problems. Also in TN, if you are involuntarily annexed you cannot be forced to cease using your property in the same manner as before annexaction, so long as it was within the previous zoning restrictions (so, if you had pigs and bees and get annexed, you get to keep them and even add chickens, as you keep your agricultural zoning -- one fairly local person had a lion/big cat refuge and the county tried to amend the wording on the zoning they were in (which permitted exotic cats with a proper state permit) and create a new zoning that they did not qualify for which allowed big cats (in an attempt to circumvent this state law) -- didn't work and they cat refuge is still there and has more cats than ever. Many benefits can be yours if you just run your hobby as a business (don't give all the honey away to friends, attempt to make sales and a profit, keep good books, don't buy extravagant items you can't justify for your size, etc), while others may only be available due to the amount of land you have or the sales level you attain. To learn about then, check the code books that most states have online now, call your county property assesor or clerk or check with a librarian (who mostly still know how to find things that aren't online yet). Karen Oland ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:13:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Karen Oland Subject: Re: Denise and ventilation In-Reply-To: <003301c2cdf4$5467d380$710d0a98@t0b9o7> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am located at the northern edge of the TN valley, with weather close to that of KY (on a ridge top, we skip some cold snaps, but have all the rain you could want in winter, very little snow usually and that for only a day or so). For ventilation, I run open bottom boards and an inner cover with a ventilation slit (also covered in mesh) year 'round. So far, no wet moldy bees. I still have two or three hives on solid bottom boards (and not many total, to be sure), but they winter about the same as the ones with open bottoms (so far, i lost one of each this winter). My top covers are also open in the front, allowing full ventilation from the open mesh section of the inner cover. With the exception of one hive, none have seemed to complain about the ventilation (that one has covered their entire entrance in propolis, except for two bee size holes, this winter). I do know that in the summer, switching a very strong hive from solid bottoms, a regular inner cover and regular top cover to the above described setup results in huge beards of bees going back into the hive (while a second strong hive next to it stayed outside trying to stay cool for three more weeks). Since I haven't seen a difference (in this climate) for wintering and the summer benefits were so much greater (double the honey from the more ventilated one this year), they are all being switched this coming season. K Oland ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:44:03 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Business operations... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karen Oland wrote: >>From: Joe Miller >> >>It seems that some beekeepers qualify for benefits as a business, farm >>enterprise, etc.. in ways that I do not know about. I have heard that if >>you pollinate with 25 hives you qualify for commercial license plates. In Lousiana you can get farm plates, much cheaper than commerical plates. Insurance for stake bed trucks one ton and over at farm bureau is $140.00 for one year much cheaper than any other company bare none. You also get to declar the propty farm use and discount on taxes. Charlie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:49:50 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Denise Hubler Subject: Re: Denise's ventilation and winter losses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I want to thank everyone for your responses to my dilemma. I have, as expected , learned a lot from your input. I am grateful, that I've lost only one hive in the 7 years I've been keeping bees. Of course I only had two hives for 5 of those 7 years. I guess this year my time came to pay my dues. I am inclined to leaning toward my problem being a ventilation problem, as I believe the bees had plenty of honey stores. We live and learn. Again , I appreciate everyone's help. Best regards, Denise ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 18:30:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: This made CNN about an hour ago.... To Aaron and All, Aaron posted: "U.S. SEIZES MORE HONEY TAINTED WITH ANTIBIOTIC... WASHINGTON - The U.S. Food and Drug Administration was cited as saying on Wednesday that nearly 185,000 pounds of honey imports were seized in Texas because of contamination with a human antibiotic banned from U.S. food products." Let's see...that's about $1850.00 that's not going to the National Honey Board, if it was going to be sent at all! I wonder where the shipment originated and who the importers and buyers were. Having had so much publicity on this sort of thing in the last year you would think that the importer/buyer would get an analysis prior to purchase. I also wonder how the news services will handle this since there is so much going on in the world news right now. This may be buried somewhere in your local paper and the TV folks will probably not even cover it unless it is really brought to their attention, hint...hint. We have talked about this problem before; this is one of many arguments that a beekeeper can use to promote local honey. Chuck Norton Reidsville, NC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 19:58:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carol Palmer Subject: Re: Expert opinions needed. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Borst" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Expert opinions needed. >...That yard I mentioned which > stung the neighbor, we moved it in July in the middle of a WILD lightning > storm -- but that's another story > So, let's hear it. Carol ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 19:56:50 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Denise's ventilation and winter losses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Denise, Sorry I am late getting back to you. PROPER ventilation of a colony in the winter is far more important than summer. Bees BREATHE and that discharged air is warm, and warm air goes UP in cold weather. This exhaled breath is MOIST, and when it contacts the cold inner cover, it condenses into droplets of water which can "rain" down on the cluster. Dr. Edward Southwick, years ago, subjected colonies of bees to temperatures as low as -80°F for as long as a month, and cold does NOT kill bees. I repeat - COLD DOES NOT KILL BEES. Bees when clustered can't tolerate dampness very well, and "sick" bees, irrespective of the sickness, be it mite infection, Nosema, or Foulbrood, just die due to the dampness in cold weather. For over 40 years, I have cut a notch in the front edge of my inner cover to serve as an UPPER ENTRANCE in the summer, and an exhaust hole for hot moist air in the winter. This has been referred to as a GOBLE inner cover. Rather than I describe it to you, see page 9 in the 2003 Brushy Mountain Bee Farm Catalog. If you don't have that catalog, telephone 1-800-BEESWAX and they will be happy to send you one quickly. BTW, it is a WONDERFUL catalog that features explanatory notes. You might note on page 8 that Steve Forrest still can't spell my Scottish name correctly. Ha Ha. I can't be bothered with putting sticks, or washers, or spacers under the edge of an inner cover to hold it up for ventilation. I want something that I don't have to "mess" with, and the UPPER ENTRANCE hole in the inner cover WORKS summer and winter. Some beekeeper nearby, wanting to express himself, will probably say that using that inner cover "upside down to him" will result in BURR COMB between the cover and the frame tops. He is correct if the bees are that crowded for space; but who's fault is that? Surely not the bees, so it must be the beekeeper who did not give enough space in the supers that the bees had to build burr comb there and prepare to swarm. That beekeeper has a lot more to learn about successful beekeeping. I am sending a copy of this note to Steve Forrest at Brushy Mountain in the hopes that he might correct the spelling of my name next year. Ha Ha. Denise, I hope I have helped. George Imirie - retired scientist Certified EAS Master Beekeeper Starting my 71st year of beekeeping just 20 miles north of President Bush's WHITE HOUSE. Author of the monthly George's PINK PAGES @ www.beekeeper.org/george_imirie/index.html Author of Hobbyist Tips for the ABF Newsletter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 19:15:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis Murrell Subject: Re: White Melilot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Vincenc and Everyone, This type of white sweet clover called 'Hubam clover" was sold by : Walter T Kelly PO kBox 240 Clarkson, Ky 42726-0240 502-242-2012 Have experimented with a small quantity of the seed. It did bloom and the bees worked it freely the first year. Best Wishes Dennis ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 22:47:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kevin Kress Subject: Cold Weather Issue ? In a local bee class, a veteran (recently infamous) Kentucky beekeeper made a statement that I question. It is his opinion that a mated queen subjected to cold temperatures will have permanent damage done to her ovaries resulting in infertility. His reference was to temperatures below 70 degrees Fahrenheit. I cannot justify this claim based on anything I have read or heard. I thought this would make a good cold weather issue. Kevin Kress in Cincinnati ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:54:46 -0500 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: BATTLE Subject: Re: NEW ZEALAND FREE TO CONTINUE DELUDING ITSELF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trevor Weatherhead said: > In an attempt to stop the misinformation being spread around... > ...taxonomic entomologists have identified it as Aethina tumida. > DNA shows it to be the Durban strain of Aethina tumida. This is > different to the two (2) strains known to be present in the USA and > others that exist in various countries in Africa including Egypt. > If some taxonomic entomologist wants to give it a new name, I suppose > it will depend whether that person is a lumper or splitter. OK, so where is the claimed "misinformation"? It appears clear that the beastie at hand is clearly different from the norm, and that even taxonomists could go either way on naming. If some would prefer to call it a "different strain", I'm sure no one will object. The operational word is "different". Allen said: > If my choice of words has caused confusion, I, of course apologise. Not to worry, it was not your choice of words in the first place. Regardless, semantics are a debating tactic most charitably described as "the last refuge of the desperate". > The fact remains, however that the beetle in Oz is observedly different, > and all the differences are not completely known. Exactly. It could be that the "Durban strain of Aethina tumida" will turn out to be slightly LESS threat to managed bee colonies and honey crops, but the information at hand appears to indicate that it is at least "just as bad", if not worse a pest as the type (or "strain", or whatever) that has been plaguing the Southeastern USA and other countries. All this sets up a very complex little puzzle: a) Australia has chosen to drop their quarantine, so their entire continent will be considered by the OIE to be "infested" with this unique strain of pest, just as the entire continental US is considered to be "infested" with pests/diseases that clearly are not found everywhere. b) If Canada chooses to continue to allow imports of Australian queens and packages under these conditions, this would be grounds for some pointed questions about the basis for the ongoing Canadian ban on queens and packages from the continental US. The most likely phrases to be trotted out would be "non-technical barrier to trade" and "unequal treatment". From there, it would spiral into the sort of unpleasantness between Canada and the US not seen since the War of 1812. c) The resulting status of the pending demands by a handful of Australian bee producers for "US market access" is best illustrated by the following sequence of stills from the movie "Monty Python and The Holy Grail" - the "Black Knight" scene: http://www.stone-dead.asn.au/movies/holy-grail/pictures/04-arthur-trots-up.html http://www.stone-dead.asn.au/movies/holy-grail/pictures/04-arm-off.html http://www.stone-dead.asn.au/movies/holy-grail/pictures/04-one-leg.html http://www.stone-dead.asn.au/movies/holy-grail/pictures/04-call-it-a-draw.html d) Meanwhile, New Zealand continues to sweat bullets over the width of the Cook Strait (which varies from 16 to 190 miles [26 to 396 km] in width) in light of their varroa "problem". It apparently has not yet occurred to them that their varroa "problem" allows them to start working on a bee that would actually be worth buying, as bee importing nations need and want varroa-resistant bees, rather than what NZ currently exports. So where does all of this leave us? The only rational strategy for each party to take is to avoid conflict and argument by openly advocating and working out a port-of-entry inspection and testing protocol that will allow exports from all parties to all parties, and transcend all the OIE/SPS nonsense about "disease-free", "pest-free", and other concepts that work fine for trade in inanimate objects, but don't work at all when applied to trade in live animals like bees. The alternative would be a very messy and very expensive waste of time, and a process that would exclude beekeepers from the negotiation. Bottom line, imported bees are not a bad idea at all, as long as everyone can assure that they are importing nothing else. jim ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 00:20:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Barnett Subject: Re: Question from an old beekeeper In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030206123210.02706b60@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > From: Michael Palmer > Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology > > Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:36:34 -0500 > To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu > Subject: Re: Question from an old beekeeper > >> Its not unusual for me to look down at the end of a day and >> see a stinger or two in my fore arms and can't remember having been stung. >> Wonder if that's true of others? Absolutely true. I have made the following comment before, regarding gloves, which I don't use twice in a summer of hobby beekeeping. If one uses pinestraw for smoker fuel (the very best of fuels), heat your smoker fairly hot to begin, and smoke hands and bare arms generously, so that the vaporized smoker volatiles precipitate off on cooler skin; bees simply can't then identify your animal odor, and hardly ever sting. Vinegar will do the same, tho much less well. I have tried Liquid Smoke, but it did not work well, in my opinion. Check this out, I think you will like it. If you catch a sting on the hand, immediately give the place a blast of smoke and it will obliterate the sting's target odor; not forgetting the other variables (e.g., carbon dioxide in your breath, possibly leading them to attack nares and mouth, the former mentioned by a recent respondant). Bob Barnett B'ham AL ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 08:35:51 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: how to fight varroa with organic acids - results from Finland 200 hives for 2 years MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Allen Dic wrote Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Replacement of Coumaphos > > I heard recently from a UK source that the organophosphates are now > > outclassed by safer products, and hopefully will all be withdrawn in > > the near future. Is that true and what is the replacement product? > > From what some say, FGMO ;) Well, I still have my doubts about FGMO, but I know the results from the tests for Finnish varroa concept. You can read them in english from www.hunaja.net From the main page choose 'aiheesta lisää' on the left and then on the next page 'mehiläishoidon kirjallisuutta ja muuta hyödyllistä kirjallisuutta' in the middle. Then you end up in library and there is article in english about varroa control in Finland and other file containing the tables and results from our tests. In short I can say that warroa is no problen at the moment for us with these methods. They should work also in northern midwest and Canada as the climate is similiar to ours. The use of Apistan has dropped by 80 % during the last 5 years. European honey customers are wery concerned about posiible residues of synthetic chemicals. I dont only stydy this, but treat my own 180 hives only with thymol and oxalic acid. Ari Ari Seppälä MMM Projektipäällikkö Project Manager Suomen Mehiläishoitajain Liitto r.y. Finnish Beekeepers' Association komppa-seppala@co.inet.fi www.hunaja.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 20:14:24 -0500 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: BATTLE Subject: Re: Business operations... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In Virginia, you can put a homemade "license plate" on your truck saying "Farm Use Only", and avoid the entire saftey inspection and registration process, not to mention the fees. I have no idea what this might do to one's insurance coverage. But there may soon no longer be any reason for any US beekeeper to drive a beaten up old truck. The Bush "tax cut", if passed will allow any "small business owner" to buy any vehicle heavier than 6,000 lbs, and write off up to $75,000. (Currently, the limit is $25,000) The only sticky point is that one must be making enough money to have a tax liability in excess of the write-off. Here's the details: http://ens-news.com/ens/jan2003/2003-01-21-09.asp If one is considering "free" trucks under $75,000 and over 6,000 lbs, I would strongly suggest the new Hummer H2 over all others. I drove one recently along a national forest fire road that had not been cleared in ages, and it has just as much punch as the much noisier and much less-comfortable Hummer H1 model. It also imposed no emotional obligation on the driver to be wearing BDUs or to have a sidearm strapped to one's thigh. http://www.hummer.com/hummerjsp/h2/index.jsp But don't expect me to be buying an SUV, tax cut or no. You will pry the keys to my Volvo wagons (over 270,000 miles on each with nothing more than oil changes) from my cold dead fingers. jim ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:11:50 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Cold Weather Issue ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Kevin & all > In a local bee class, a veteran (recently infamous) Kentucky beekeeper > made a statement that I question We would all do well to question beekeeper's opinions, statements and 'known truths' more thoroughly than we do. > It is his opinion that a mated queen subjected to cold > temperatures will have permanent damage done to her > ovaries resulting in infertility Now the point here is that it is an 'opinion'... What I would like to know is how he came by that opinion, what did he observe that made him think that damage was occuring? There are many things in beekeeping that are not understood as well as they might be... Long term repeated statements do become embedded in what we think we know, but it does not make such statements 'correct' because they are widely known. As far as queen damage due to chilling is concerned, I can honestly say that I have not considered it myself, has anyone seen any relevent evidence that suggests that we conduct experiments along this line and find out for certain? Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 03:53:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Question from an old beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > smoke hands and bare arms generously... bees simply can't then > identify your animal odor, and hardly ever sting. Interestingly enough, I've never really noticed this to work, but we use burlap, mostly. Try Deep Woods Off. Apparently the way that deet works is by disarming the insects' ability to smell you. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 04:21:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: how to fight varroa with organic acids - results from Finland 200 hives for 2 years MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > European honey customers are wery concerned about posiible > residues of synthetic chemicals... I dont only stydy this, but treat > my own 180 hives only with thymol and oxalic acid. Aren't we all? Chemical residues are definitely something to be worried about. I understand that oxalic and formic do not leave noticeable residues, but I had heard that thymol can get into honey enough to be tasted? Have you observed that? Have these treatments affected your honey yields or wintering at all, or have you studied that aspect of this approach? I've added your article to my list of varroa resources at http://www.honeybeeworld.com/formic/default.htm Thanks for sharing. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 04:35:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: how to fight varroa with organic acids - results from Finland 200 hives for 2 years MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > You can read them in english from www.hunaja.net ... > In short I can say that warroa is no problen at the moment for us > with these methods. They should work also in northern midwest and > Canada as the climate is similiar to ours. Thank you for sharing your methods. I am sure this will encourage others to try these techniques. I am interested to know when your honey flows are. In our part of Canada, our main flows are from late June to early September, and it is hard to predict when they will end. We have supers on all that time. Further north, though the heavy flows are usually over by mid-August, but this year, many were still extracting well into September. Pulling supers off early is not an option for us, since heavy flows would plug the hives and cause bad wintering, not to mention missing out on a lot of income. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 05:38:01 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Randy & Isa Chase Subject: Re: This made CNN about an hour ago.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The article about this incident at YAHOO.COM identified the operation that was responsible for importing the honey into the U.S. It also noted that the honey may have come from China through Thailand to circumvent the antidumping tariffs. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 05:32:49 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: NEW ZEALAND FREE TO CONTINUE DELUDING ITSELF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Exactly. It could be that the "Durban strain of Aethina tumida" will > turn out to be slightly LESS threat to managed bee colonies and honey > crops, but the information at hand appears to indicate that it is at > least "just as bad", if not worse a pest as the type (or "strain", or > whatever) that has been plaguing the Southeastern USA and other > countries. An added concern is that this SHB may find a different niche than the niche occupied by the current US SHB. I suppose if it were to merly compete with the existing SHB for their niche, it would not be a problem in the US, but, is it known that it will not jump to something unexpected? For example, some of our 'wax moths' have several habitats other than bee-related equipment. In Canada, we do not have SHB, other than in one location where it was (wishfully considered to be) contained and extermined (we'll see). We got this SHB infestation -- in a region with very cold winters -- due to our ever-vigilant CFIA permitting (unknown to beekeepers) some beeswax refuse into Canada for rendering. As it happens, CFIA is the very regulatory agency that bans Canadian beekeepers from obtaining imports of US queens -- including the very bee strain (Russian) that promises to reduce our concern about mites. Fear of mites are the reason we closed the border. Go figure. The import of US Primorsky queens in volume would reduce or eliminate our need to use miticide chemicals (which CFIA also tests for). We cannot (legally) buy US queens even under proposed extremely rigid protocols, and even from regions of the US that are not known or suspected to have any of the usual pest suspects. This total ban on legitimate, inspected queen imports has -- naturally enough -- led to smuggling. That, ironically enough, means that, instead of certified, inspected queen imports, Canada receives queens (tens of thousands annually) that are not inspected by *any* independent authority. There is more discussion of the politics behind this nonsense on my current diary page. > b) If Canada chooses to continue to allow imports of Australian > queens and packages under these conditions, this would be > grounds for some pointed questions about the basis for the > ongoing Canadian ban on queens and packages from the continental > US. The most likely phrases to be trotted out would be > "non-technical barrier to trade" and "unequal treatment". If it walks like a duck... > their varroa "problem" allows them to start working on a bee that > would actually be worth buying, as bee importing nations need and > want varroa-resistant bees, rather than what NZ currently exports. I've been thinking the same thing. I've had some NZ bees over the years. Mind if I add AFB resistance and good wintering ability to that wish list? > Bottom line, imported bees are not a bad idea at all, > as long as everyone can assure that they are importing nothing else. Who can argue with that? allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 07:49:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: White Melilot Michael wrote: I believe it a bad plan to make hay from sweet clover. Greetings! I confess: I know nothing about hay. Around here, it seems like they just cut whatever comes up and if they plant anything at all for hay, they plant alfalfa. I used to think alfalfa was not much use to bees in this area (Upstate NY), though it is a terrific honey plant out west. But two summers ago a beekeeper told me he got a good crop from alfalfa in our area. We have almost no wild sweet clover around here, I guess the soil type is factor. Not very much clover of any kind, in fact, though a hundred years ago this used to be called the white clover region -- along with Massachusetts and Ohio. Anyway, I always thought there were billions of acres of sweet clover planted out somewhere in the midwest, Montana and the like, and that it was used for hay. I guess this can't be right. Anyone want to straighten me out? pb ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 16:04:25 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Seppo Korpela Subject: Re: how to fight varroa with organic acids - results from Finland 200 hives for 2 years In-Reply-To: <001801c2ce9d$063fff80$3051fea9@Pegasus> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT > I am interested to know when your honey flows are. In our part of > Canada, our main flows are from late June to early September, and it is > hard to predict when they will end. We at MTT Agrifood Research Finland have had a scale hive net service running already for 2 honey seasons. The url for last summer results is http://www.mtt.fi/ktl/ksu/bees/vaakapesat2002.html. There is a link to a summary graph of all stations on the page: "Yhteenveto kesästä 2002" or a direct link to the graph http://www.mtt.fi/ktl/ksu/bees/kaikkiasemat.gif. This tells that our main flow in 2002 was very early, ending about at Midsummer. But that is quite exceptional. Normally the honey flow is longer, up to mid-August. This happened for example in the summer 2001 (link "Vuoden 2001 vaakapesäseuranta") on the 2002-page ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:07:30 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: White Melilot In-Reply-To: <200302071249.h17CkAlI003015@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Actually, there's very little planted sweet clover in Montana. There are lots of alfalfa fields, and if we get a wet winter and its the right year in the two-year cycle, the state turns yellow from (wild)yellow sweet clover. We have some tall white clover in isolated sports. Spotted knapweed is a major nectar source in western parts of the state. Much of the Montana crop comes from alfalfa. And the big flows occur in the areas where alfalfa is allowed to go to seed for seed production. We get 3-4 cuttings of alfalfa for hay. If the hay is cut at the first sign of blossom, the protein content of the hay is better, but that curtails the honey crop. New, young farmers tend to cut right away. Beekeepers like old timers ready to retire, large farms and ranches, anything that will slow down how when and how fast the hay is cut. Honey bees are not as efficient in pollinating alfalfa as leaf cutters. They don't like getting smacked in the face and do a lot of nectar robbing on alfalfa. That said, I've hard evidence that enough honey bees can get the job done - but you may want to throw out more hives than for typical pollination. Jerry >Anyway, I always thought there were billions of acres of sweet clover planted >out somewhere in the midwest, Montana and the like, and that it was used for >hay. I guess this can't be right. Anyone want to straighten me out? Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 11:27:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: test message, please ignore MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" test, test BEE-L is hosted at the State University of New York at Albany ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:25:29 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dennis Murrell Subject: Re: White Melilot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Peter and Everyone, Decades ago the Federal government seed millions of acres of public lands with sweet clover. I'm in Wyoming and very little sweet clover is now planted. It was used to seed reclaimation projects and provide some initial cover long enough for the various grasses to get established. Today it's considered invasive and is mowed and sprayed. It some places it's the only green thing growing along the roadside but will be promply sprayed by the Road Department, that is unless the rancher doesn't bail it up first:>) Dennis BEE-L is hosted at the State University of New York at Albany ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 08:19:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: how to fight varroa with organic acids - results from Finland 200 hives for 2 years MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Normally the honey flow is longer, up to mid-August. This happened > for example in the summer 2001 (link "Vuoden 2001 vaakapesäseuranta") > on the 2002-page. That is more like here in Alberta. I see, by the globe, however that even the southernmost portions of Finland are north of Alberta, and even north of Canada's northernmost (AFAIK) beekeeping. I imagine your season must end suddenly? Early frost? Occasionally, we have no killer frost until October. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ BEE-L is hosted at the State University of New York at Albany ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:30:47 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Predrag Cvetkovic Subject: Re: White Melilot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all. Peter wrote: > Anyway, I always thought there were billions of acres of sweet clover planted > out somewhere in the midwest, Montana and the like, and that it was used for > hay. I guess this can't be right. Anyone want to straighten me out? If someone wants to see one article about Hubam clover, an interesting experience from one Ukrainian beekeeper, I recomend the http://www.pcela.co.yu/hubam.htm (website edited by me) :) In our literature on growing wild flowers, one can find about its healing properties. According that books, sweet clover may be used as a spice for cheese, meals etc. But, there is a note that its ingredient - Kumarin, is carcinogenic!? Predrag Serbia BEE-L is hosted at the State University of New York at Albany ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:35:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Sweet Clover My understanding has always been that sweet clover was always considered a noxious weed...by everyone except beekeepers. However, it is not a good competitor and improved dry farming techniques and more irrigation have largely eliminated its former range in the northern plains states. Now the northern plains states (and many other states as well) have a new noxious weed, knapweed or 'yellow star thistle' (although the flower is purple). Both knapweed and yellow star thistle (the two are related) produce a fine honey. The dry lands of Idaho are especially noted for thousands upon thousands of acres of yellow star thistle. 30 years ago knapweed was largely unknown around here (upstate NY), but now the fields are purple with it for a three week period in July/August. It is a terribly invasive weed that grazers will not touch. While it is an annual, every plant produces thousands of fine seeds for the next year. Cultivation easily controls it, but our farms continue to be abandoned and it quickly moves in. Presumably the shade produced by the natural succession back to hardwoods would also control it...but who will control the deer that graze the hardwood seedlings? Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, manufacturer of comb honey equipment for beekeepers and Sundance pollen traps. http://www.rossrounds.com Lloyd@rossrounds.com *********************************************************************** *********************************************************************** ***** BEE-L Archives contain almost two decades of beekeepers advising beekeepers ***** ***** Although there are no format Frequently asked questions, any topic of discussion ***** ***** can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives is the FAQ! Subscribers ***** ***** are encouraged to become proficient in using the archives which can be searched at: *** ***** http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l ***** *********************************************************************** *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:55:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Climates With regard to a comparison between Alberta and Finland, Alan said "I see, by the globe, however that even the southernmost portions of Finland are north of Alberta, and even north of Canada's northernmost (AFAIK) beekeeping." Yep, most of Scandinavia is well north of what we would consider inhabitable by all but Native Americans. Some is north of Hudson's Bay! The Gulf Stream, carrying the warm Caribbean water to Europe's East Coast is responsible for Europe's mild climate at latitudes we would expect to be almost-tundra. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, manufacturer of comb honey equipment for beekeepers and Sundance pollen traps. http://www.rossrounds.com Lloyd@rossrounds.com *********************************************************************** *********************************************************************** ***** BEE-L Archives contain almost two decades of beekeepers advising beekeepers ***** ***** Although there are no format Frequently asked questions, any topic of discussion ***** ***** can be reviewed by searching the archives. The archives is the FAQ! Subscribers ***** ***** are encouraged to become proficient in using the archives which can be searched at: *** ***** http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?S1=bee-l ***** *********************************************************************** *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 14:16:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Milt Lathan Subject: Winter Inspection I am planning to open my (5) hives for the 1st time this year. This is not my first winter - but - other than clearing the dead bees and seeing whether they need feeding - What does a beekeeper look for? I am in the Puget Sound and the weather has been mild- low 50's almost every day - but it's been hitting the freezing point at night lately. Are there signs of trouble to watch for? Is it to early to look between brood boxes? TFL. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 14:38:32 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "adrian m. wenner" Subject: A useful book Comments: cc: JoTraynor@aol.com In-Reply-To: <200302021756.h12HueoE026521@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dear BEE-L Subscribers, Most of you would like to get homeowners, farmers, and others to avoid use of poisons. That would lead to less bee kill. In 1993, Hilary Dole Klein and I published a book, TINY GAME HUNTING: Environmentally Healthy Ways to Trap and kill the Pests in Your House and Garden. Unfortunately, Bantam dropped the ball and didn't reprint it once copies were exhausted (even though it sold well). A few years ago the University of California Press approached me and asked if they could republish it. We revised it, and it came out in June, 1991. They issued a sale catalog (#3A1300) and will sell the book at only $12.00 (plus shipping, of course). If you are interested, you can order by a toll free number (800) 777-4726 and pay by credit card (name as it appears on the card, card number, and expiration date). Be sure to have the catalog number (above) handy for the discounted price. Buy several copies so you can get them to people who live near your colonies! Don't worry about me making a fortune. (I only get about a nickle a copy in royalties - it was a labor of love, not for income.) Adrian -- Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm **************************************************************************** * * "T'is the majority [...that] prevails. Assent, and you are sane * Demur, you're straightway dangerous, and handled with a chain." * * Emily Dickinson, 1862 * **************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 14:38:46 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "adrian m. wenner" Subject: Stolen Hives Comments: cc: JoTraynor@aol.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030205121055.00ed4a00@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dear BEE-L subscribers in the West and Northwest, Please be on the lookout for hives stolen about a month ago. Here is the description: ********* 250 single story bee colonies were taken off pallets at a winter stockpile location in the foothills east of Madera, California (behind a gate at the base of the Hensley Lake dam). The theft occurred around Christmas time. The bees belong to Wade Anderson from Chinook, Montana. Most hive bodies were white, some light blue; mostly with new lids. The hive bodies and some frames were branded with two letters of the alphabet, a D in reverse and a "lazy" A (lying on its right side). If you have any information, contact Wade in madera at (550) 673-5234 or in Montana at (406) 357-2953 or (406) 390-1419. ********** Adrian -- Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home office phone) 967 Garcia Road wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA 93103 www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm **************************************************************************** * * "T'is the majority [...that] prevails. Assent, and you are sane * Demur, you're straightway dangerous, and handled with a chain." * * Emily Dickinson, 1862 * **************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 20:13:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: White Melilot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by mycteria@STNY.RR.COM to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previouslu posted material. ----- Original message (ID=55615A17) (79 lines) -------- From: "Jeffrey A. Holbrook" To: "'Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology'" Subject: RE: [BEE-L] White Melilot Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:59:15 -0500 Peter, I live in upstate NY also. The reason alfalfa is typically not a good honey plant is the fact that it is typically cut just prior to the flowers blooming. That is when it is highest in TDN, total digestible nutrients. Not good for the bees because they usually won't work the sparse flowers that are missed on the edges of the fields. If for some reason, weather or health of the owner or field workers for example, delay harvest until after the alfalfa has bloomed then you may see a great yeild from large fields of this plant. Conversely, the Red and Alsike Clovers planted in this area are highest in TDN, after the flowers have wilted and have turned brown. For this reason, clover is a good honey plant, at least around here. As for white sweet clover, it was a banned plant in this area back in the early 1900's. Originally, it was promoted as a soil improver as it's roots grow deep. This gives it the property of loosening up compacted soil or so it was claimed. Some would say that starving cows would not eat it but others claimed the opposite. It's seeds need to be roughly abraided to germinate successly, ergo, one most often sees this and the Yellow Sweet Clover growing along rural roadsides. In my area at least, there is enough of this that the bees will work this plant when it is in flower. The flowers of the sweet clovers open in succession from bottom to top, taking a few weeks, so the bees have a lot of time to get at this. They will go off of it if something else is more abundant. At least that has been my experience. Jeff Holbrook East Corning, NY