From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:26:33 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-89.7 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7F24856B for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDAZeI011456 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0303E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 67058 Lines: 1517 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 01:08:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Vital Gaudreau Subject: Re: Plastic foundation not drawn out Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed I like to submit a question to the list: What are the methods that "commercial beekeepers" use to have those plastic frames drawn out? To be more specific let us use the following example: Someone wants to increase from 1000 to 1200 hives during the same year (own nucs production); Considering there will be a definite need to increase the amount of supers and to have extra ones drawn out and when in fact the main flow will begin, will full super(s) of 10 undrawn frames be added on top of the brood chamber(s)? or, will a mixture of supers of drawn frames (if available) with undrawn ones be prefered? - if so, mixed in which order? or, or, or.???? Would the idea of having a preselected amount of hives (few apiaries) with the sole mission of having bees being fed sugar syrup)to draw frames out be a viable option from a $ point of view? ...while the remaining apiaries will be allowed to make a full honey production working on completely drawn supers only. Is this done in reality? Your comments are welcome and appreciated. Thank you. Vital Thank you Vital _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis ! http://messenger.fr.msn.ca/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 06:36:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Green Subject: Re: Plastic foundation not drawn out In-Reply-To: <12.2eeda321.2bb66b15@aol.com> Date sent: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 22:20:53 EST Send reply to: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Plastic foundation not drawn out To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu > However, while I was giving > these talks and teaching, I was constantly dumbfounded by the vast number > of beekeepers (beeHAVERS) that did not understand that bees MUST HAVE > A > NECTAR FLOW OR ARTIFICIAL NECTAR FLOW OF 1:1 SUGAR SYRUP to > make them > build comb! We made 11 5-frame nucs about ten days ago, and put them into the beekeeper's hives, which he had delivered earlier. He had included 4 frames of Pierco foundation and a feeder. We had planned to feed them when we unloaded them, but it was very late and we were exhausted, so it got put off. Well the next day it rained, then the next, then we were busy...well you know the rest. Day before yesterday I checked them for queen acceptance and realized that we had not yet fed them. Unfortunately during the interim, they had built quite a bit of bridge comb, rather than draw out the foundation. I had to take quite a bit of time to scrape all that off, and, of course finally feed them. Now they are drawing comb nicely. It's just one example of what happens when forgetting George's simple rule. They MUST have a nectar flow to draw foundation, even if it's a "flow by Dixie Crystal," as we say in the South.... And when you reduce the size of the hive, AKA making nucs, you reduce the flow, because you reduce the field force. If you expect a nuc (or even more so, a package) to draw foundation, you should expect to feed, even during a good flow, until the comb is drawn. With whole hives, in the early spring, they get sporadic flows, and you sometimes see a nice strong hive that has quite a bit of nectar, but NO capped feed. What you have to remember, in assessing the needs of the hive is that any *uncapped reserve* is no reserve at all. A week of rainy weather can kill this hive, because uncapped nectar is used very quickly when the bees are building. If I can't find a frame of capped honey to give them, they've gotta have some syrup in the feeder. Whether it's early spring buildup, or during a summer drought, the bees must NEVER run out of capped honey. The best of good intentions to feed them, will never equal an actual feeding. Fortunately it was plastic rather than wired or Duragilt, which would have been ruined by removing the bridge combs. I fought the use of plastic foundation for a long time, but the ease of fixing badly drawn comb is one of the points that has now convinced me. I still prefer wooden frames for my own bees, but Pierco negates the labor cost of assembling frames, so it is becoming the standard in commercial outfits. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 06:47:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Green Subject: Re: Plastic foundation not drawn out In-Reply-To: From: Vital Gaudreau > Someone wants to increase from 1000 to 1200 hives during the > same > year (own nucs production); Considering there will be a definite need to > increase the amount of supers and to have extra ones drawn out and when in > fact the main flow will begin, will full super(s) of 10 undrawn frames be > added on top of the brood chamber(s)? I always get the brood chamber filled first. With a nuc, feed until all brood combs are drawn. Then the hive is strong enough to draw super comb without supplemental feeding. Don't put supers on until the brood chamber comb is almost all drawn. Timing is critical, of course, because if you wait too long, you will overcrowd the brood chamber. If I need a lot of super foundation drawn, I use three combs of comb and seven frames of foundation in each box. Two combs are placed in the wall positition (always hard to get bees to draw foundation on the wall), and one is placed in the center to get the bees started. It's best if that center one is nice fresh comb, newly drawn the year before. It's even better if it's still wet from the extractor, and you can put that on at the beginning of a flow. The bees will jump right on it. If you don't have enough drawn comb and have to start with ten frames of foundation (NEVER nine, at least until the comb is drawn), then remember that the wall comb will often be undrawn, or burred up badly. After the center combs are drawn, move them to the wall position with drawn comb on the outside. These rules don't apply with swarms. When I catch a nice swarm, I may give them a frame or two of brood/honey to get them off quickly, but they are already primed to draw wax. You can give them 17 or 18 frames of foundation, and they will draw it better than any established colony ever would. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 08:40:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jason Buchanan Subject: Re: Plastic foundation not drawn out In-Reply-To: <12.2eeda321.2bb66b15@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GImasterBK@AOL.COM wrote: >bees MUST HAVE A NECTAR FLOW OR ARTIFICIAL NECTAR >FLOW OF 1:1 SUGAR SYRUP to make them build comb! Honey bees do not do a job >until it is necessary. > >I have written a lot of words here just to say: FEED THOSE NEW BEES >CONSTANTLY, even when the nectar flow is on, if you want to get plastic >foundation drawn, and feed them ALL summer to get your supers drawn into >drawn comb and abundant winter stores. So you invest $15 or even $50 in >sugar, but you have got lots of frames of drawn comb and abundant winter >stores when November arrives, and READY FOR NEXT YEAR! > > I am a new aspiring beekeeper and am wondering what method and how to feed the bees. I have drilled about 20 1/16" inch holes into the top of a large mason jar but am wondering if I should put it inside the hive or outside near the entrance. The jar seems like it would be rather tall to fit inside the hive. And even if I got it inside the hive i'm afraid it might tip over... Any suggestions? Thanks! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 08:09:38 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Spiritssong Subject: Help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just joined the list and want to start beekeeping as a hobby I haven't a clue. I got into this accidentally I ordered a Pollinator and thought that was all I had to do NOT. I have been reading online and ordered a queen to go with the 1000 bees I ordered. Now what? I have limited income so would like to build what I can instead of purchase. Linda :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 07:23:08 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: "Honey in the hive is not the same thing as honey in the bee". MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It's just one example of what happens when forgetting George's > simple rule. They MUST have a nectar flow to draw foundation, > even if it's a "flow by Dixie Crystal," as we say in the South.... I'll weight in with the rest of the 'old guys' and say I strongly agree with both George and Dave on this. > What you have to remember, in assessing the > needs of the hive is that any *uncapped reserve* is no reserve at all. Very true, and while we are discussing very basic thoughts about feeding bees, I'll add this -- on a slightly different , but fundamental matter that bee-ginners do not understand: *** If you do not see at least a thousand cells of uncapped and liquid honey/nectar in close proximaty to the open brood, the hive is starving or close to it, no matter how much sealed honey may appear to be in the hive. Perhaps the bees are too few, or too weak to uncap and liquefy the honey, or the honey is granulated and hard, but something is very wrong. *** "Honey in the hive is not the same thing as honey in the bee". allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 07:47:28 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Plastic foundation not drawn out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I always get the brood chamber filled first. With a nuc, feed > until all brood combs are drawn. Then the hive is strong enough to > draw super comb without supplemental feeding. Don't put supers on > until the brood chamber comb is almost all drawn. Timing is critical, > of course, because if you wait too long, you will overcrowd the brood > chamber. Right. Something that those of us who have raised comb honey know, and other might consider is this: A strong hive of bees that would normally be crowded in five standard supers usually fits comfortably in two standard boxes of foundation -- until the foundation is drawn -- a matter of days, sometimes. Don't add more foundation until the first boxes are drawn, and keep the hive volume to a minimum by removing finished boxes as they are ready.. Where a hive would need three standard drawn supers above the brood(s), one super of foundation at a time is plenty -- until it is drawn. Since the space is not filled with comb, and the bees will be hanging in clumps, a lot of bees will fit in that one super -- until it is drawn, then they will need another, and fast if they are getting a good flow or being fed and if it is early in the season If drawing entire supers of foundation, only add another when the first is completely drawn and filled, and bees are seen on all the top bars and out to the corners. At that point, the next super should be added *under* the drawn one, if it is not taken away. Ideally, the super that is drawn and filled should be removed (and not returned). Avoid excess ventilation and upper entrances when drawing comb. Bees do not draw well near openings. Nonetheless, they do need some ventillation, so provide at least the minimum that is appropriate for your area. (Texas coast may need more than Northern Alberta). When drawing comb, do not make the common mistake of providing any more space than the bees can fill, but monitor the top bars daily for bees if there is a good flow. Early in the season, it is acceptable to err on the side of giving a little too much space, but at the end, errors should be towards being a bit constrictive. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 12:11:05 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: huestis' Subject: Re: Help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Where are you located (state)? You could try building top bar hives they can be cheap if you have access to scrap lumber if you have to by new lumber. You may wish to just buy equipment (used is possible but often not recommended for begginers)as it won't be much if any cheaper in using new lumber. Beesource.com has plans for lots of equipment. Also would be good to find a local beekeeper. regards, Clay :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:35:39 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: Plastic foundation not drawn out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/28/2003 7:48:26 PM Pacific Standard Time, GImasterBK@AOL.COM writes: > One of my favorite sayings is: DRAWN COMB is every beekeeper's MOST VALUABLE > POSSESSION! > > I agree!! In May will be my first anniversary of being a beekeeper. ( you > can teach an old dog new tricks. LOL I'm going to be 55 next month. Besides > making an out of state move, I also took up something I've studied > passionately all my adult life!)I fed all of my 6 hives when I got them, so > that they would draw comb. I was happy to have that drawn comb available > this year for splits and swarms. I will probably feed again in the fall so > that I can build up my supply of available comb. Kathy Cox :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 21:13:41 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Plastic foundation not drawn out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quote: 'DRAWN COMB is every beekeeper's MOST VALUABLE POSSESSION!' Drawn brood combs are also highly valued by wax moths in UK. Do moth cause less damage - or even no damage - to plastic based combs? Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 19:42:29 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Stalnaker Subject: Re: Plastic foundation not drawn out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wax moths do not destroy the plastic. In my experience, I have been able to scrape out the webs and larvae of the wax moth, freeze the frames to kill any eggs, and put the frames back in with bees. Any decent sections of comb are repaired by the bees, they draw out the rest, and clean up the remainder of the mess. I personally love the plastic foundation. After the Wax moth damage, they may have to be lightly recoated with wax. The frames that I cleaned and put back in with bees were repaired and you would never have known that they were damaged by Wax moths except for the dug out places in the wood. Tim Stalnaker beeranch@multipro.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Gray" To: Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Plastic foundation not drawn out > . Do moth cause less damage - or even no damage - to plastic based combs? > Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 22:34:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Green Subject: Re: Help In-Reply-To: <004e01c2f5fc$d6d5e160$ebfd66a6@linda> From: Spiritssong > I just joined the list and want to start beekeeping as a hobby I haven't a > clue. I got into this accidentally I ordered a Pollinator and thought that > was all I had to do NOT. Ahem. I'm the Pollinator (since before the Internet was young) and I don't recall any order....Although my wife calls me "The Old Drone....." > I have been reading online and ordered a queen to > go with the 1000 bees I ordered. Now what? I have limited income so would > like to build what I can instead of purchase. Anyhow, you can find a LOT of beekeeping resources at: http://www.pollinator.com/beekper_resources.htm From that page you can look up Keith Delaplane's online beekeeping course (free), or find others that you have to pay for, such as Diana Sammataro's Beekeeper's Handbook. Either will give you the basics. And there's lots more links there to help out. Dave Green, AKA Pollinator, etc.... SC USA ThePollination Home Page: http://pollinator.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 23:29:46 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Rick Green Subject: old extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A museum is looking for a donated small hand operated extractor or will pay some. Need not be working. Upstate area. Will be used in a dedicated area, with bees, to educate children. Very professionally done. Rick Green 8 Hickory Grove Lane Ballston Lake, NY 12019 (518) 384-2539 gothoney@aol.com honeyetc.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 06:55:31 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Primorski bee picture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Olda Vancata & All, > Most of the imported bees were of the Ukrainian bee (Apis millefera > acervorum). Smaller amount was the Central Russian bee (A. m. > mellifera) and even smaller amount was Caucasian ( both grey and > yellow A. m. caucausica and A. m. remipes). Marginally there was > also an import of A. m. ligustica (even from Australia). > This is very interesting, Where is this information documented or recorded? > The Russians write that these bees have a large potential and should > be used for selecting productive bees of high quality. There are > thoughts to give these bees an official status but at the moment they > are described as "Primitive bees". > I have asked this before with no answer but I really would like to know what the cell size is of the worker cells of these "Primitive bees" / "Primorsky Bees"? I would like to find out what cell size the Primorsky Bees are being kept on in Primorsky? Do they use foundation there or do they let the bees build combs as natural as they can build it? . .. c(((([ Keith Malone Chugiak, Alaska USA Black Caucasian Bee Keeper alaskabeekeeper@hotmail.com http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast; http://www.wx.com/myweather.cfm?ZIP=99654 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 11:02:44 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Snow from VA to NY (in USA) I have heard of beekeepers being caught by snow when pulling their fall honey crops, but this was the first time I was caught by snow when SUPERING. Snow was predicted, but I, like many others, assumed that any snow accumulation would be limited to the highest elevations. Yesterday, I was supering hives in a tee-shirt, working up a sweat. Today, we started with rain, and as of 10:30am, we have at least an inch of accumulated snow. Yesterday, we had generalized blooming of several trees, and decent foraging conditions. Today, we have 34 degrees F, which threatens to knock down everything blooming. All I can do today is to make a snow man, and equip him with a smoker and veil. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 09:53:29 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Plastic foundation not drawn out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim said: Wax moths do not destroy the plastic. Nor will small hive beetle destroy plastic but mice will. Mice will chew right through several frames and make a nest so be sure to reduce entrances when mice are a problem. Mice control is important any time to prevent frame damage but many on the list might think with plastic they do not have to worry. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Odessa, Missouri :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 19:13:30 +0200 Reply-To: olda.vancata@quicknet.se Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: olda.vancata@QUICKNET.SE Subject: Re: Primorski bee picture In-Reply-To: > > Most of the imported bees were of the Ukrainian bee (Apis millefera > > acervorum). Smaller amount was the Central Russian bee (A. m. > > mellifera) and even smaller amount was Caucasian ( both grey and > > yellow A. m. caucausica and A. m. remipes). Marginally there was > > also an import of A. m. ligustica (even from Australia). > > > > This is very interesting, Where is this information documented or > recorded? Russian sources. The primorsk bee was described as a bee managing varroa well. It doesn’t fit with russian sources. As most were in Primorsk area 400 000 colonies. Varroa jumped from cerana in Primorsk 1964 and Russians are saying that varroa is not the biggest problem because they know how to manage that, because they have lot of treatments to chosse between. They have: Amicid, Amitraz, Apifit, Apistan, Arachnol, Fenotiazin, Folbex, Folbex VA, Fumisan, Varrofen, Varrool, Varroton, Varroxan and Vinin (my question is – why so many formulas when the bee ”can coupe with the varroa self”?). Russians are reporting big trouble with chalk brood. Primorsk bee seems to be succeptible to chalk brood. Number of bee colonies in Primorsk area 1992 – 334 500 1998 – 106 300 1999 – 66 400 \vov :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:30:51 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Morris Subject: Re: Plastic foundation not drawn out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 03-03-29 10:02:32 EST, you write: << I am a new aspiring beekeeper and am wondering what method and how to feed the bees. I have drilled about 20 1/16" inch holes into the top of a large mason jar but am wondering if I should put it inside the hive or outside near the entrance. The jar seems like it would be rather tall to fit inside the hive. >> Feeding within the hive will reduce the chance of "teaching" the bees to rob. Take an empty hive body-either a medium if you are using quart jars, or two mediums/deep for a half gallon/gallon jar. You can put them over the oval hole in your inner cover, or place the directly on the frames as I and many others do. I used to use the boardman feeders (entrance feeders) but after several robbing incidents I put them up and started feeding as I described above. BTW, you can use a frame nail instead of a drill. Its a tad faster. Hope this helps Tim Morris South Central Tennessee :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 13:37:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Killer mites Here's a kinda cute AP blurb where Varroa is called a "killer" mite, which it is, of course, but the wording evokes images of 10 foot tall drooling mandabled space invaders. http://famulus.msnbc.com/FamulusIntl/reuters03-30-065828.asp?reg=EUROPE :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:41:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Primorski bee picture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The primorsk bee was described as a bee managing varroa well. It > doesn't fit with russian sources. > ...why so many formulas when the bee "can > coupe with the varroa self"?). There is some confusion betwween the unselected Primorsky Russian stock found in Russia, and the stock selected and imported by the USDA. My understanding is this: USDA scientists figured that if any European bees -- anywhere -- would have resistance to varroa, that the logical place to look would be the region where the EHB first contacted the mite. That is on the eastern extreme of Russia, near the Chinese border. They went there a number of times and selected bees that seemed promising. Not all bees in that region have strong resistance, since the beekeepers shield them from mites using treatments, just as we do here. Nonetheless, they did find some stock that seemed promising in mite resistance, in honey production, and in temprament, so they imported about 100 queens a year for 5? years. On arrival in the US, the bees were quarantined and bred and selected. Of the many queens imported, only a relatively small number of lines were retained after selection. Those remainder do carry very considerable tolerance to both tracheal and varroa, and also have the requisite qualities to be a commercial bee in North America -- in the opinion of the USDA and their co-operators. The Primorsky Russians in the USA are a very different bee from what you would find if you just grabbed any old queen in Eastern Russia. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ Now a retired beekeeper with minus 200 hives :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:42:33 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Vincenc Petruna Subject: Jacaranda tree and mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Some days ago dr. Starc, the entomologist from Uppsala University, during the lessons in his native country Slovenia proposed that in Peru beekepers put some pieces of the jacaranda tree in their hives against varroa mites and that this works. Does anybody from this group know anything about this method? Regards, Vincenc Petruna -- Domača stran http://www2.arnes.si/~sscrnomelj/ Debatna skupina http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cebelar/ Beta verzija Domače strani druątva http://www2.arnes.si/~sscrnomelj/drustvo/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 15:17:11 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Plastic foundation not drawn out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robin Dartington asked whether wax moths will attack drawn comb on plastic foundation. Of course they will! The plastic foundation does not alter their normal diet of pupal cocoons found in brood cells. A beekeeper who does not protect his empty drawn combs in the winter is either lazy or lacks knowledge. Paradichlorobenzene works and is cheap. George Imirie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 16:01:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Plastic foundation not drawn out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Jason, You mentioned drilling about 20 1/16' holes in a Mason jar cap. You don't want to DROWN the bees, you want to just FEED them I use a 3/32" drill bit and drill no more than 4-6 holes in the cap of a gallon GLASS jar. Plastic jars tend to collapse from the suction as the syrup is used, and many deli's have GLASS gallon jars of pigs feet, pickles, olives, etc., and trash them. A jar of your finest honey results in them saving these jars for you. This is inverted over the inner cover hole and surrounded by an empty deep hive body or two empty medium hive bodies. I NEVER, NEVER, feed with an outside feeder like a Boardman feeder for THREE reasons: It definitely promotes ROBBING. A pint or quart jar is not near big enough. In cold weather, even at 40-45°, the bees will NOT LEAVE the cluster to go down to a Boardman feeder. Unless you are feeding when the outside temperature is about 50°, I don't like ANY of the commercial feeders like division board feeder, TOP feeder, or a BAGGIE feeder. WHY? First, you have to OPEN the colony to check or refill the feeder; and 2) when bees are clustered (anytime the temperature is less than 45-50°) it seems that many beekeepers simply don't understand that the bees will NOT LEAVE that cluster warmth to get food even if it is just 2 inches away, and NEVER will they move HORIZONTALLY over an empty frame to a frame of honey. Hence, in cold weather the bees simply cannot get to a division board feeder, a top feeder, or a baggie feeder. In real cold weather, or to feed a lot of syrup QUICKLY, you can remove the inner cover and place as many as 4 gallon jars right down on the top of the frames. This would be a rare happening, but I have had to do it 2-3 times in 70 years. I hope I have helped. George Imirie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 00:34:18 +0200 Reply-To: olda.vancata@quicknet.se Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: olda.vancata@QUICKNET.SE Subject: Re: Primorski bee picture In-Reply-To: <000c01c2f6f4$5ec46ea0$4bb85ad1@Pegasus> > The Primorsky Russians in the USA are a very different bee from what you > would find if you just grabbed any old queen in Eastern Russia. I understand. The USA imports was a young queen, but still - it was probably a dother of some old queen in Eastern Russia. You will probably imply that by breeding and selection was made some kind of a "miracle". In that case this kind of "miracle" should be possible to make with all kind of bees. As I could understand you can buy primorsk bees in many flavors (lines/strains). Carniolan, ligustica etc. I can't understand how is it possible to make in few years a carniolan or ligustica bee from a bastard. > Those remainder do carry very considerable tolerance to both > tracheal and varroa, and also have the requisite qualities to be a > commercial bee in North America -- in the opinion of the USDA and > their co-operators. As I know the primorsk bees were tested by four German bee research institutes and german beekeepers was warned in german beekeeping magazine for switching to primorsk bees, because primorsk bees wasn't any better than german bees. \vov :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 16:17:17 -0700 Reply-To: ttownsen@telusplanet.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Townsend Organization: TPLR HONEY FARMS Subject: Re: Plastic foundation not drawn out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Nor will small hive beetle destroy plastic but mice will. Mice will chew >right through several frames and make a nest so be sure to reduce entrances >when mice are a problem. > >That's some tough mice you are dealling with out there, here in Alberta I have never had mice chew through, or even much on Pierco frames. > Tim Townsend > >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >-- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 20:18:03 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Primorski bee picture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> The Primorsky Russians in the USA are a very different bee from what >> you would find if you just grabbed any old queen in Eastern Russia. > > I understand. The USA imports was a young queen, but still - it was > probably a dother of some old queen in Eastern Russia. You will > probably imply that by breeding and selection was made some kind > of a "miracle". In that case this kind of "miracle" should be possible > to make with all kind of bees. That is correct. This selection is possible with any strain of bees, but some are more promising for quick reasults. Bees from a long-challenged area would seem more likley than others. As you mention, there is considerable diversity in bees in the Primorsky area. > As I could understand you can buy primorsk bees in many flavors > (lines/strains). Carniolan, ligustica etc. I can't understand how is > it possible to make in few years a carniolan or ligustica bee from a > bastard. I don't think that anyone is claiming that. The selected strains in the US -- 20 lines, I believe -- is dark and has carniolan characteristics, but I don't think anyone has claimed that it is a pure type. Also, the amount of stock in the US should allow for closed breeding for 20 years, but after that??? Here are some references that might be helpful in understanding this question. The first deals with the Russian Project: http://msa.ars.usda.gov/la/btn/hbb/ http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/bkCD/HBBiology/breeding_genetics.htm http://www.beeculture.com/beeculture/digital/2002/column40.htm allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ former beekeeper, now unemployed. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 23:06:48 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Primorski bee picture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, In January I attended two talks given by Dr. Tom Rinderer. I also contacted Tom by email later with a few other questions. Dr. Rinderer said at the talks that he had sent samples of the Russian bee to Dr. Fredrick Ruttner to determine the makeup of the Russian bee. A.m. macedonia is the primary race with a mix of A.m.cecropia, A.m.sicula, A.m. ligustica and A.m.carnica. To the untrained eye the Russian be appears to be carniolan. Most Russian bees are smaller with smaller wings than the carniolan from the Russian bees which I have examined. Tom said the Russian bee also has longer legs and proboscis but I could not tell by my exaimination. Tom said the Russian bee had more yellow at the tergites and scutellum than carniolans. I personally have trouble telling the Russian bee from a carniolan as they most resemble *in my opinion* the carniolan bee. I have kept most races available in the U.S. at one time or the other but I have have got the most experience with A.m. ligustica. I do not at present run any Russian bees but Tom has talked me into trying a 100 Russian queens next month. I will report my success or failure in a later post. I am closing in on the two year mark ( July 2003) with my SMR queens and am pleased with results so far. SMR is a trait however and not a race of bees. My partner and I hope to build on the tools given us by the Baton Rouge Bee lab over the next few years. We have finnally figured out a way to get mature drones for our mating nucs the last of March in Missouri and are mating queens we grafted ten days ago this week. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 03:00:46 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Early Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob & All, > We have finnally figured out a way to get > mature drones for our mating nucs the last of March > I have been thinking of ways to produce early drones for mating up here in Alaska where our season is already very short. Does anyone know how to do this? . .. c(((([ Keith Malone Chugiak, Alaska USA Black Caucasian Bee Keeper alaskabeekeeper@hotmail.com http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast; http://www.wx.com/myweather.cfm?ZIP=99654 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:30:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Yoonytoons Subject: Gallon Glass Jar Feeder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Re. A Gallon Glass Jar-Feeder To drill holes in the plastic lid of a gallon glass jar, I use 1/16 drill bit: I make about nine to twelve tiny holes and they will not leak. Invariably a strong colony will empty a gallon in less than three days. A gallon glass jar, as a feeder, works well most of the time except during winter—-if you must feed the bees then. Whether you place the jar atop outside or within an empty deep, I found out, the lid will, however slightly, be loosened due to the continuous freezing and thawing action of the weather, no matter how tightly you screw it, causing a rivulet running out through the entrance. Through this crack in the lid, the syrup will start to “bleed” and if/when this continuous trickle falls directly on to the cluster, now immobilized due to the freezing weather outside, it will kill the colony easily. I lost a few this way this winter. A Styrofoam hive top feeder will solve this problem, however, though I am not endorsing it. Another problem associated with a glass jar atop outside is that the syrup and the sun will interact to create this black fungus inside the jar if the bees do not take the juice quickly. The lighter the mix, of course, the quicker the emergence of fungus. Although the jar placed within a deep will last fresh longer, it too will develop fungus or go sour if not taken quickly. [Some suggests using drops of vinegar in the mix to retard the fungus] I have been recycling these jars since I empty one in a month: they put this stuff called Kim Chi, a Korean ethnic dish made of salted cabbage mixed with raw garlic and hot red pepper, and you can find either Kim Chi or an empty gallon jar [at about $2.50] at a local Korean Grocery Store. Warning: Do not try Kim Chi if you haven’t: it is spicy hot and will make your blood boil with vigor. That stuff is my soul food. And it stinks big time. Shawnee, OK Yoon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:34:52 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Early Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keith said: I have been thinking of ways to produce early drones for mating up here in Alaska where our season is already very short. Does anyone know how to do this? The only way we have found is to bring your drone rearing colonies in from a long honey flow in the south such as Orange in Florida or Almonds in California. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:07:59 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: steve noble Subject: Re: Primorski bee picture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison writes: " Tom has talked me into trying a 100 Russian queens next month." Bob, Are these Russian queens ones that have been mated or artificially inseminated to Russian drones? If so I would imagine that would be a rather significant investment. Around here (Puget Sound area of Washington) Russian queens are available but their offspring will be hybrid which, as you know, reduces their value in terms of resistance quite a bit compared to the purely bred queens. Still these queens we can get are more expensive than Italian queens. Do you or anyone else think it is worth spending a few extra pesos to get the openly bred Russian queens? Steve Noble :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:18:57 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: steve noble Subject: Re: Gallon Glass Jar Feeder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yoon says: " Another problem associated with a glass jar atop outside is that the syrup and the sun will interact to create this black fungus inside the jar if the bees do not take the juice quickly." I have had this problem, especially this year. My bees aren't taking the 1:1 very fast at all. Last year when this happened I ran the syrup through my coffee filter and gave it back to the bees and they took it. This year I have filtered the syrup twice. The bees have been extremely reluctant to take the syrup, and I am wondering now if I should just throw the stuff out and start with fresh syrup. I put lemon viiger in it yesterday and let it air out to evaporate any possible alcohol. I have one of those 4 hole devices which hold 4 mayonaise quart jars upside down over the inner cover hole with a medium box over it. I like the gizzmo but sometimes when the temperature rises the pressure inside the jar pushes a lot of syrup out making a mess that can't be good. I have heard that the plastic freezer bag method works good. I wonder what the pros and cons of that method are? So far it doesn't look like I have poisoned my bees, but I don't really know how to tell when the syrup has fermented other than to drink it and see if I get a buzz. Please pardon the unintentional pun. Steve Noble :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:06:22 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: steve noble Subject: Re: Gallon Glass Jar Feeder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit when I said: " I put lemon viiger in it yesterday and let it air out to evaporate any possible alcohol." I meant apple cider viniger. excuse me. Steve Noble :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 01:02:11 +0200 Reply-To: olda.vancata@quicknet.se Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: olda.vancata@QUICKNET.SE Subject: Re: Primorski bee picture In-Reply-To: <001b01c2f743$6c3b72a0$4cac58d8@BusyBeeAcres> > Dr. Rinderer said at the talks that he had sent samples of the > Russian bee to Dr. Fredrick Ruttner to determine the makeup of the > Russian bee. Before or after his voyage to Russia? \vov :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:44:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carol Palmer Subject: Honey Show MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just heard that there is an annual honey show in London. Can anyone familiar with this show tell me something about it, especially what time of year it is usually held? My husband and I have been considering a visit to London, and it would be delightful to time it just right. Carol Palmer :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:47:56 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: TxBeeFarmer Organization: The Little ~ Coldiron Farm Subject: Pollination Contract MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a friend who wants me to provide bees for his seedless watermelons. I'm not sure how to manage it though. He's going to plant an acre or two each month through August. Can I use the same colonies for each successive of planting? If so, wouldn't I have to feed them after a while, and what would that do as far as pollinating his melons? Thanks West Texas Mark :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 19:41:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: al boehm Subject: Re: Gallon Glass Jar Feeder fungus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello yoon and all, I have put plain white vinegar in my syrup for several years, a quarter cup for every 10 pounds of sugar and it stops the black slime. I have about 4 gallons of syrup left over from fall that is still just like it was made. I do add my sugar to boiling water and instantly turn off the heat and stir to dissolve. I have sometimes wondered if the ickey stuff is in the sugar and the boiling water also has helped to kill off the cause. Al Boehm Columbus N C :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 19:21:48 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Primorski bee picture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, Are these Russian queens ones that have been mated or artificially inseminated to Russian drones? These 100 queens are not instrumentally inseminated *BUT* they are open mated to Russian drones. This is the first year I have been able to get pure stock for production queens and only one breeder would assure me that their queens would be almost 100% open mated to Russian drones. I have never bought queens from the Russian breeder before but Glenn Apiaries recommended the breeder to me. Glenn Apiaries has sold the breeder many II Russian queens. I am sure many of the open bred with a excellent line would be OK but I need as close to pure stock as possible as I will be selecting several breeder queens from the 100. This time of year we buy queens from about any breeder which has extras. We are making nucs every day now. We start calling the breeder from which we have had the best queens and then start down the list until we get queens. The process will work with production queens but Russian & SMR queens have got long waiting lists. If you should need queens and were told last fall that the dates you wanted were booked full call again as the breeder *might* be overstocked with queens and will ship right away. I am very serious as we always find queens this time of year before we get to the bottom of the queen breeder list. Steve said: Around here (Puget Sound area of Washington) Russian queens are available but their offspring will be hybrid which, as you know, reduces their value in terms of resistance quite a bit compared to he purely bred queens. Some of these hybrids are excellent bees but as you point out it is hard to judge their resistance. We had the same problem with the Buckfast bee. We found a big difference in the bee from hive to hive. After several years of Buckfast use I decided to deal with the tracheal mites and run Italians which despite their drawbacks always seem to outproduce the other lines in honey production. Steve said: Still these queens we can get are more expensive than Italian queens. The Russian breeder stock is not cheap at $500 U.S. a breeder queen and Russian queens are hard to introduce. Two reasons given to me for high cost. I expect the price of a Russian queen in the future to be the same as other lines. Steve said: Do you or anyone else think it is worth spending a few extra pesos to get the openly bred Russian queens? It is my *opinion* that the Russian queen has a different level of pheromone which makes introduction harder. Many beekeepers report introduction problems. Introduction loss could make the Russian choice very expensive as the only guarentee provided by the queen breeder is live delivery. I believe the difference between another line and the Russian is worth the money to try the Russian bee for yourself but you might wish you would have stuck with your tried and true line if your new Russian queen is superceded by the hive and the hive is left queenless. Several of our Midwestern Beekeepers have had around three Russian queens superceded before they got a Russian queen installed. I do not expect high introduction loses but will be honest if asked by the list. Without a doubt the Russian queen must be introduced carefully. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 19:37:54 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Primorski bee picture Comments: To: olda.vancata@QUICKNET.SE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob quoted: > Dr. Rinderer said at the talks that he had sent samples of the > Russian bee to Dr. Fredrick Ruttner to determine the makeup of the > Russian bee. Vov asked: Before or after his voyage to Russia? Tom never said before or after to me but if I were to guess I would say after the project had been in operation for awhile. I see nothing unexpected in the Ruttner finding. Many researchers love to poke fun at beekeepers which call every black bee a carniolan and every yellow bee Italian. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:44:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Joe Miller Subject: Re: Pollination Contract I am not an expert on pollination. But, you should get paid for each crop you pollinate. By this I mean that if you pollinate melons in one month and he replants, you should get paid for the next months crop also.And yes, feeding might be needed but I do not understand this to affect their natural desire to leave the hive and get pollen/nectar. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 21:16:02 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Paul D. Law (aka Dennis)" Subject: How much to feed as the package is installed??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have 2 hive bodies and a medium super with a bottom, top, and inner cover, undrawn waxed plastic frames to fill all the boxes when the time is right. I also have a bordman feeder, a 1/2 gallon jug with feeder holes cut in the top and a tray feeder. My question: after the bees arrive and I install them in one of the hive bodies with 10 undrawn frames, HOW MUCH should food should I put in the hive before closing the top for the first time? And should I also feed pollen patties? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 21:16:00 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Paul D. Law (aka Dennis)" Subject: Source for free One Gallon Glass jars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've just been reading the list for a couple of weeks while getting ready to start beekeeping with one hive in Brooklyn, NY. I've found you can get one gallon bottles from Blimpies if you ask them to save them for you. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::