From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:21:35 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-85.5 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, FUZZY_AMBIEN,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SARE_FRAUD_X3,SPF_HELO_PASS, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F12AF48FDE for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDAZdc011456 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:17:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0307E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 95081 Lines: 2119 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:58:30 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: I need some help - Hive Beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert Williamson wrote > Any advice is more than welcome. Do a search on google.com for aethina tumida and you will get at least 100 hits. There is a lot of good information there. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:54:06 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: "Washboard movement" at entrances MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I did a search of the BEE-L archives for "washboard movement," but only > found one reference to it. (The author suggests that it may be related to > a swarming impulse.) Try putting "washboarding" in the subject line. There are a lot more references there. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:46:01 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Max should really reply to this, I inferred that because the instruction refer to removing a suspect larva intact, that the test required the vegetative stage to provide reactive material. I was impressed by the test kit, it was clean could be sanitarily disposed of easily and gave a fast result. The ropiness test works only at a particular stage of decomposition of the pupa, and so may not be found. Ruary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Morris" > > Does one infer from this that the test kit is solely for the vegetative > stage of AFB and not of use when testing scale? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:44:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 27 Jul 2003 to 28 Jul 2003 (#2003-209) In-Reply-To: <200307290400.h6T3ws2b003053@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 7/28/03 23:00, Brandon Clayton wrote: > could be mild poisoning by > tansy ragwort or some other plant, or tainted water. One cause which is not reported as being considered is poisoning by pesticides. A possibility? Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:25:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 27 Jul 2003 to 28 Jul 2003 (#2003-209) In-Reply-To: <200307290400.h6T3ws2b003053@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 7/28/03 23:00,Peter Dillen wrote referring to trailers: > length compared to load, axles and braking, flat bed material > etc. etc. Basically, the shorter the trailer the faster the response to any turning changes when backing up. It's a lot easier to back up a long trailer than a short one. That said, you have to consider your load when deciding on trailer size. Ten to twenty hives necessitate a lot smaller trailer than one hundred to two hundred. That also applies to type of trailer, i.e. gooseneck or traditional ball hitch. A gooseneck will handle a lot heavier load than the traditional hitch. When you go to buy the trailer talk to the salesman about the size of load you plan to be hauling. Ex long haul trucker, Mike :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:31:15 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: "Washboard movement" at entrances > I did a search of the BEE-L archives for "washboard > movement," but only found one reference to it. A friend of mine has an interesting theory about this. He is a priest, and very astute observer of my bees. He states emphatically that the bees must be celebrating different Saint's Days. I cannot dispute his theory, as every time I have noticed a hive displaying this behavior, I have checked, and sure enough, it WAS a "Saint's Day". For example, today (July 28th) is Saint Samson's Day, a feast still celebrated in parts of the UK. http://www.catholic.org/saints/calendar/july.php And if anyone needs to take a day off from work, the calendar looks like an excellent resource for highly credible excuses. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 21:10:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: old ways versus new ways of doing things) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Layne said: The methodologies and techniques used to produce raw "organic" unheated, unfiltered hobbyist honey might vary from those used by a commercial producer producing for the mass market. I supply health food stores on a commercial level with a product I believe to be superior to most hobby beekeepers honey as they use a hot uncapping knife. My process for health food stores: I use a Dakota Gunness uncapper which uses no heat (unlike a cowen or hot knife). I use no heat as my pump will pump even cold honey. The extractors I use will spin out even cold honey but the temperature of the honey processing area is usually between 80 to 100 F. when extracting. I do STRAIN the honey by gravity through nylon material after the honey has had time to settle and wax rises to the top. Slow process but the honey does strain. Granted every once in a while a speck of wax will slip through the nylon material but the health food stores only want the honey strained and not pressure filtered. I actually can heat the honey up to 120 F. but only do so with honey which has crystallized on the store shelf and then sell the honey at a farmers market. Several of the health food stores have came to observe the operation and while the honey is agitated a bit and picks up *air* from the straining process the honey is about as natural as honey comes. They are allways pleased with the operation and tell their customers. Layne said: but I personally can tell the difference in taste between my "crushed comb" (cold pressed) honey and my extracted honey. I suspect the difference Layne says he tastes comes from the use of the hot knife. I can not tell a taste difference between my comb honey crushed and the honey processed by me for the health food market. Neither has a health food store person when given the test. . The bulk honey I sell on the open market is not treated as above and I have NEVER had a packer ask about the way the honey was processed, amount of heat used etc. We are all entitled to our opinion so I am going to give mine on "Really Raw Honey" . The story is on page 618 of the August issue of the American Bee Journal. A very low quality product which in the end will cost customers. A business built on bad mouthing the rest of the beekeepers products as inferior. A business built on the ignorance of the customer. Bob Ps quote from page 618 about "Really raw Honey": " A look inside a Really Raw Honey jar. All the crunchy goodness beeswax, pollen, and propolis have to offer" I am sure the proplis adds flavor to say nothing of the green stain color on your teeth! If you want crunchy grind a few small hive beetles into the mixture! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:28:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Supersedure [was Queen Excluders and Small Cell Conversion] In-Reply-To: <003d01c35574$879349d0$4fad72d8@SOD> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:55 PM 7/28/2003 -0400, you wrote: >and probably the California queen breeders that >are the source for the NWC's also (input, anyone?). I have read some >analyses of Coumaphos effects on queens. The bits that I've read don't look >good. Not only is use of Coumaphos a problem over time, contamination of new foundation made from old wax is increasing. I can't say I've seen any of these problems, but then most of my comb is new, I don't use coumaphos, and I use plastic foundation (originally due to it's other benifits). What do the big beekeepers use? Do most use the big commercial drugs? Do any use IPM and alternate treatments? (FGMO, formic acid, mite solution/bee calmer, wintergreen oil or other) I see many different things used successfully by small beekeepers, but I understand some are probably just impractical for larger operations (like fogging hives every week) -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:14:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Queen Excluders and Small Cell Conversion In-Reply-To: <14c.22344926.2c57290c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:34 PM 7/28/2003 -0400, you wrote: >You said "reputable breeder". Sue Cobey who is the developer of NWC only >sells breeder queens to 6 breeders, hand selected by her for their >knowledge and >integrity. Not entirely true. I recently purchased a breeder from Sue to raise my own queens, so others can get the breeders. A very nice queen, and her daughters equally so, (large, healthy, vigorous queens). Have you complained to the breeder? A reputable breeder should fix the problem. Definitely give queen rearing a try. I've found it a very worthwhile experience. You can take the time to select good queen, give enough time for good mating, and make sure she is a good laying queen unlike many big breeders who must do things quickly and in large volume. I started raising queens myself several years ago. Grafting for most (including myself) is usually the biggest hurtle, but really isn't hard given enough practice (the first few times can be very frustrating). This year I invested in a breeder to take advantage of the years of hard work and expertise by Sue with the intent of only raising queens for myself, but have started raising a small number for others. -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:39:42 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Lavender Pollen Peter said: > I was asked the other day about the colour of lavender pollen... > Pollen looks to be orange-yellow, but someone suggested that > the loads are a sort of brick red... Mother has a large patch of lavender along her front walk, and father keeps a half-dozen hives within 500 yards. The blooms have very tiny spots of orange pollen, but no bees seen working the lavender (while hearing the views of a chorus of trustees on a church addition project that appears to require a consulting engineer, an auditor, a team of lawyers, and a whip) had ANY sort of pollen load, not even one in the making. I have a "Pantone" color chip book that a printer gave me (a rainbow you can carry in your back pocket!) that I use for pollen color-matching. The color, for the record, was between Pantone 180 and 167, so the "orange" could match some kinds of brick. You can get a rough idea of what I saw by looking at "167C" and "180C" on your screen here: http://www.grafiker-bonath.de/PDF%20Links/pantone.pdf Lavender does not have much pollen per bloom at all, so I can't imagine this plant as a first choice of pollen source for bees with easier pickings. And sorry, I have no idea what specific kind of lavender is being grown. Mother reads seed catalogs as if they were mystery novels, and goes through greenhouses like General Sherman went through Georgia, so there is no way to know from where she sourced these plants. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:06:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: NWC supercedure difficulties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been reading these threads with interest. One of those reporting on supercedure from new nucs may have purchased his nucs from me (he knows who he is). This year I purchased 150 NWC queens from my usual high-quality supplier in California. He only uses breeders directly from Sue Cobey as mothers for his NWC queens. (Most would also use daughters from the Cobey queens as mothers for queens to be sold.) I also had a great deal of difficulty with supercedure...as did my customers! IMHO, the difficulty was primarily due to terrible April/early May weather in northern Calif. Queens could not get out to mate...and when they did, the matings were not good (insufficient drones?). I have come to this conclusion because these weather conditions were what was 'different' in 2003 from recent years. Nonetheless, we cannot dismiss Todd's speculations concerning the amount of miteticides in beeswax. This is a very serious problem, perhaps especially for drone fertility. There are procedures that can reduce the chance of these difficulties but they involve testing of the miticides content, AND using only capping wax to make foundation. I wonder if any of the breeders would even consider such precautions. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:06:03 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Re: QueenExcludersandSmallCellConversion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>Waldemar, You said "reputable breeder". Sue Cobey who is the developer of NWC only sells breeder queens to 6 breeders, hand selected by her for their knowledge and integrity. I like Sue Colby's NWCs and I have deep respect for Sue Colby (she has answered all my questions very frankly in the past). I think her selection program is excellent. This may be the odd year in all respects! I will not drop names here but the queen was from one of the 6 breeders (they advertise as a member of the NWC project in major beekeeping magazines). I had very good success with queens from them last year but I could not believe the size of the queen they send me a few weeks ago. I asked if they had a 'minimum queen size spec' that they adhere to and have yet to get an answer. I also heard of a local beekeeper who had received 50 queens from the same source and half of them are poor performers. Perhaps the breeder treated the colonies with Check-Mite affecting the young queens - I have no idea. In the past, they've said they would only use Apistan as needed. >>I doubt that tour "reputable breeder" was a licensed breeder for NWC, and if they are, you should report your problem to Sue Cobey. I will give the breeder another chance to redeem themselves and, maybe, then contact Sue. Like I said, this may be the odd year. Last year, the breeder stood behind his queens. >>look for the real expert, knowledgeable breeders, and we beekeepers will be so much better off. I doubt that I will live that long, but who knows? I agree. It would be nice to have a Consumer Reports of sorts for honeybee queens. :) As a very average beekeeper, I can only go by what I read in magazines and by word of mouth from local beekeepers. Best regards, Waldemar :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:30:21 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Re: NWC supercedure difficulties Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>IMHO, the difficulty was primarily due to terrible April/early May weather in northern Calif. Queens could not get out to mate...and when they did, the matings were not good (insufficient drones?). I have come to this conclusion because these weather conditions were what was 'different' in 2003 from recent years. I do not necessary feel the weather was the factor. I think drone saturation or lack thereof may have been. In the past, the workers from the NWC queens were mostly the typically greyish. This year, 90% the workers from the NWC queens look Italian. The NWC queens look the same as in the past which speaks well of the breeder NWC queens from Sue Colby. I think the breeder did not ensure sufficient NWC drones for mating. Waldemar Long Island, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:51:26 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: [IBNewList] Queen Excluders and Small Cell Conversion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Coleene & all > My question, have the spaces in queen excluders been increased ever so > slightly to accommodate the bigger, better bee? Yes! but not by very much. http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/excludertypes.html has dimensions of various types, the older designs being the tighter ones. However there are not enough data points to plot a graph of 'size' against 'year of manufacture'. The page above is about to be modified to include recent work I have done on drone excluders... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/droneframe.html http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/dronex/dronex.html The above two pages contain info on that and links to some other related pages. Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:32:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: contaminated chinese honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, A beekeeper from Australia Warren Taylor says 2500 tons of Chinese honey was illegally shipped through Australia in his letter to the American Bee Journal editor (August 2003 pg. 592). Warren Is also afraid the Chinese honey will ruin the Australia domestic market as the Chinese honey does the U.S. market. Consumers clearly need to know the source of the honey they are buying! If the FDA confiscated 266,000 pounds on contaminated Chinese honey what happened to the rest? The Australia / Chinese honey should be easy to trace through bill of ladings. Should not the tarriffs on Chinese honey be collected from the Australian packers ? Is it not time to quit letting packers use a blanket label with half a dozen countries as possible sources on their jars and be more specific? Should not the label contain the amount of foreign honey in each blend? The packers have got deep pockets and will fight the above with all their power but I wonder what the list thinks? Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:12:42 +0100 Reply-To: max.watkins@vita-europe.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Max Watkins Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit In-Reply-To: <5AF61A7A68D97645B968E3F6F7D069A1090D19A3@email.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron asked if Vita's AFB field diagnostic kits only work on vegetative cells: the answer is no, they detect spores also. Validation has been performed on fresh and on frozen larvae, scales and AFB spore-infested comb, (including larvae infested with other diseases or healthy ones). The sensitivity to AFB spores is around 4 x 107 spores. The kits will be generally available to beekeepers and researchers and will not be restricted to "official use" by apiary inspectors/ministry officials as has been suggested. However, these diagnostic tools will be useful also for apiary inspectors in confirming their diagnoses. Max Dr Max Watkins Vita (Europe) Limited 21/23 Wote Street Basingstoke Hampshire RG21 7NE UK Tel.: +44 (0) 1256 473177 Fax: +44 (0) 1256 473179 e-mail: max.watkins@vita-europe.com web: http://www.vita-europe.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:46:25 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Fw: Cecil T. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cecil T.I have just received the following email. I am sure that Claire = will be happy for me to forward it to the list. Cecil was, of course, = one of the giants of British beekeeping. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ Dear All I am very sorry to have to tell you that Cecil Tonsley died this = morning, Saturday 26 July. As you probably know, he had been ill for = some time. Cecil made an enormous contribution to beekeeping in so many ways. He = was involved with the BBKA, being the only person as far as I know to = have held all offices within that organisation. He was committed to = Apimondia and was a Vice-President. He was editor of the British Bee = Journal for many years until it ceased publication. We are all greatly indebted to Cecil and our thoughts and sympathies go = to Nora, who was such a support to him in everything he did, and to his = family. Please would you pass on the news to any that you know. In particular, I = would be grateful if somebody could inform Jeff Rounce and Ted Hooper. Kind regards Claire Waring Dear All My apologies for making this a mass circulation instead of replying = individually to those who have written. Cecil Tonsley's funeral will be on Tuesday 12 August at 2 pm at = Geddington Parish Church, near Kettering, Northamptonshire. Nora has asked for no flowers but if anyone would like to make a = donation to the Alzheimer's Society or the Multiple Sclerosis Society = (their grandson has MS), this can be sent to the funeral directors: Phillips Funeral Services 25 Princes Street Kettering Northamptonshire NN16 8RW I will be making an announcement in the September issue of Bee Craft and = thought it would be rather nice to include short appreciations from = those who knew Cecil. If anyone would like to contribute, please would = you send me a SHORT (couple of sentences) note by Friday 1 August. Sorry = to restrict you, but I would like to include as many as possible and = Cecil was very widely known and respected. Kind regards Claire Waring :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:00:53 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: contaminated chinese honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob said: Consumers clearly need to know the source of the honey they are buying. It remains something of a puzzle why professional honey producers in USA do not take more steps to protect their market by establishing a states-wide marketing co-operative and developing a brand 'Honey produced wholly in the USA' with a distinctive label , and contract to supply only selected packers who agree to follow the co-op's own spec on blending. When the 'honey from many countries' brands had to be withdrawn in UK due to contamination, the demand for UK honey shot up and there was little or no talk of price resistance. Or perhaps such a co-op does exist? If so, does it do enough to emphasise that the brand is guaranteed pure USA honey? Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:41:16 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: old ways versus new ways of doing things) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison said: I suspect the difference Layne says he tastes [between "crushed comb" (cold pressed) honey and extracted honey} comes from the use of the hot > knife. I can not tell a taste difference between my comb honey crushed and > the honey processed by me for the health food market. I extract most combs but when there are only a few to be done it is quicker to uncap (cold knife) and then scrape the honey off and coarse filter the mush directly into a settling tank (there are only cell walls in the honey), allow to stand and bottle from the bottom with no further straining. Anecdotally (no scientific test) I often feel such honey is more 'oily' and flavoursome. My best guess is that it is throwing the honey out in small drops and crashing it into the walls of an extractor that knocks some of the aromatic oils out into the air. Certainly, bees smell an extracting room from afar, and everyone comments on the persistent honey smell in the room ), implying that the walls are coated in aromatics - but pay little attention to uncapping /straining even if carried out (in the evening) at the hive side. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:28:00 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Alan Riach Subject: Creaming of Crystallized Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For information see http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gandboss/index.htm Click on Main Bee Page, then on Easy Processing of Oil Seed Rape Honey The method requires a mixing propeller, however it certainly gives a nice creamy honey. Alan Riach Edinburgh :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:12:14 +0100 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Re: contaminated chinese honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, As you indicate - there appears to be alot of redirected honey somewhere! I am not competent in suggesting what should be done about the collection of potential tariff taxes . But have thoughts on the labels. Packers have problems indicating specific proportions of honeys AND the source country in batch mixes. This is the argument given: impractical to demand such specific information on a label. But, maybe my thoughts are outdated, and with high tech. printing processes, the variations could be dealt with. I presume that the information is on official record, and should be available to authorities if asked for. So, where has the honey gone? A proportion has been indicated as being present in potted honey. The rest - How about Breakfast cereals??? - a test for residual antibiotics in that direction! Or would Chinese honey have been too expensive a commodity to include in such products? When the cereal manufacturers use honey - which theoretically I applaud with great enthusiasm - which grade honey is used? I suggest (and would relish to be corrected) that it is what is considered and graded here in EU as "Bakers Honey". Look up the definition. (Interesting to see differences between Codex. a. and EU honey standards) Then, think about Ultra filtration (et al.) and why it was so strongly fought for! Then, remembering the definition of Bakers Honey - look at the manner in which the honey content of the cereal is advertised - not the content info, but the happy bee etc. carrying the scrummy honey. Maybe that is another reason why the source/ type of honey is not mentioned in the final product. Brings to mind the "Sous produits d'origine animale" label as found in dog food. Sure it's legal to use - but surely not wrapped up as if the original material was "top grade". Please correct me if I am incorrect!!!!!! I suggest that the present grading by colour is one of the biggest hindrances to good use of honey and acceptance by the public. A TRUE Sweet Chestnut honey is for example a prime product, but one falling foul of the colour discrimination regime. There are many more. A good steak is a good steak, whatever the cattle type - and should command the proper price reflecting this fact. Label up the honey - Origin, Type, Processing treatment and nutrition info. (and for those wishing for it, whether it contains GM material, even if it is below 1%) As you say, Bill - what do the list think! Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:48:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: beekeeper Organization: none Subject: Re: [IBNewList] Queen Excluders and Small Cell Conversion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Dave, You answered my question! I don't use excluders because by the time I have the time to pull honey, the queen has moved down and the supers are just honey with the occasional cell of pollen, but I hear over and over that bees won't go through excluders into supers so there must be a reason. You said the excluder spaces have been increased, but enough to give the BBB(Bigger Better Bee) easy access without allowing the queen through-if that is the goal. Coleene :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:16:05 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: contaminated chinese honey Bob said: > A beekeeper from Australia Warren Taylor says 2500 tons of Chinese > honey was illegally shipped through Australia in his letter to the > American Bee Journal editor (August 2003 pg. 592). Old news. A much more complete account can be found in the archives of the "Catch The Buzz" e-mail "wire service" http://www.beeculture.com/beeculture/buzz/index.html (scroll down to the heading "Honey Laundering"). > If the FDA confiscated 266,000 pounds on contaminated Chinese > honey what happened to the rest? This is clearly a rhetorical question, as Bob is sure to have a pretty good idea "what happened". Honey, like matter, is "neither created nor destroyed by man". Since the levels of contamination were low, the obvious tactic that someone "stuck" with this honey would take would be to blend it with sufficient uncontaminated honey to bring it below the limits of detection. (Yes, unethical as heck, and likely illegal, but the alternative might be bankruptcy, so expect desperate people to take desperate measures, and remember that there but for the grace of God go you.) It would be nice to think that everyone could demand a refund and get their money back, but this would be naive. Why do you THINK the usual form of payment for international commodity shipments is called an "irrevocable letter of credit"? But let's not jump to the conclusion that all of the honey shipped from Australia during that timeframe was laced with either Chinese honey, or contaminated Chinese honey. Let's also admit that some of the Chinese honey shipped during this period could have been uncontaminated. But let's not tar all Australian packer/exporters with this brush. >From the report, it appears that only a small number of people were involved in the transshipments and relabeling scheme. The bulk of the exporters in Oz are very likely to emerge untainted by even a hint of scandal once the usual extensive audits are completed by the usual government functionaries. (Scandals mean that honest people bear the cost of an audit, along with the all the negative press.) > The Australia / Chinese honey should be easy to trace through > bill of ladings. Sure, but what recourse does an honest buyer have when discovering that his supplier is suddenly a wanted criminal? What liability should the honest buyer face when the fraud is discovered long after the fact? Anyway, the honey that was shipped in 2001 and 2002 has likely been eaten by now. Even a "recall" would be pointless. > Should not the tariffs on Chinese honey be collected from the > Australian packers ? Sure, and drug dealers, when caught, should also be held liable for sales taxes on the drugs they sold. :) Get real - the money is long gone, and the honey is long gone. If the conspirators in the scheme had any brains, they have long since fled Australia for parts unknown on phony passports, as they would be clearly aware that any scam has a beginning, middle, and end. The good news is that the odds of showing symptoms of a health problem from consuming the honey are slim to none for all but a tiny percentage of the population, and to date, no one has reported even a single illness or problem linked to honey. We all dodged a bullet. And please - let's not fire a round directly into our own collective foot by over-reacting to the simple fact that criminals can get into ANY business at any time. (Ask me sometime to tell you the story of "Computers for Castro", a scam run out of Miami FL in the early 80s that turned out to be the perfect way for me to profitably dispose of several thousand extremely defective Olivetti-made PCs ("AT&T PC6300s") while assisting the authorities in their efforts. I even got a bonus from AT&T Bell Labs as a "reward". When you rip-off a crook and pocket a wad of cash, who's the REAL crook? Sometimes the only difference is whose flag you fly when you are not flying the Jolly Roger. The Italians ripped off AT&T, AT&T ripped off Castro's front men, and Castro? You don't wanna know how he gets hard currencies like US dollars. No one was eithical.) > Is it not time to quit letting packers use a blanket label with > half a dozen countries as possible sources on their jars and be > more specific? Sure, but when it comes down to it, packers and agro-corporate users of bulk low-grade honey donate more money to politicians than beekeepers do. The very recent history of Country-of-Origin Label ("COOL") laws for meat in the US House of Representatives is instructive. http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=Country+of+Origin+label In brief, meat packers launched a FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) campaign against the proposal, and even scared (or bullied) some number of producers into opposing the labeling. This sort of outcome makes me either laugh or cry, depending upon the relative levels of single-malt in the bottle versus in me. Every survey done shows that consumers prefer local food. The more local, the better. Consumers in the US also feel (perhaps rightly) that food produced in the US is inherently safer given the draconian regulations, inspections, and controls placed upon each step in the food supply chain. (Note that I said "draconian", rather than "silly", as the patent on silly food laws belongs to the European Economic Community, and I don't want anyone to confuse the two.) Instead of standing firm on knowledge that labels would result in additional unique demand for US-produced meat, some US producers folded under pressure from the packers, and parroted the "FUD" message. What can one say to these producers, except "Form a co-op, you morons."? What can one say to ANY producer, except "Form a co-op, you morons."? What can one do but grudgingly admire the effectiveness of the packers' maneuver, and long for the day when honey producers can turn on a dime, pass, catch, play a zone defense, and do something as effective? > Should not the label contain the amount of foreign honey in each blend? These would be labels with levels of detail never before required for any food product. :) If you want to be "a protectionist", first you have to have a market to "protect", so FIRST solve the underlying problem of meeting the US demand for honey with US honey. As it stands now, we consume more than we produce, and we had better be nice to our counterparts who fly different flags, 'cause without them, the supply of honey to the consumer would be about as dependable as the supply of spare parts for 1975 Bricklins. http://www.angelfire.com/hi/keyz/images/spotcar.jpg jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:10:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Garrett M Martin Subject: Re: Trailer advice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As one who uses a light truck and trailer in my day job I have a few thoughts. I work in the ag drainage business so I see allot of off road use in this situation. As far as the hitch is concerned is probably personal preference. With a goose neck type hitch you will find it much easier to maneuver in tight spots. You will also find that a goose neck type hitch handles better both on the road and in mud or wet conditions. Also with this type of hitch you can put more weight on both the trailer and the truck since the hitch is mounted in front of the axle. You will also have better traction in wet conditions with this type of hitch. With our truck we gross about 23,000 lbs when loaded. In my op ion this is to much weight if you are doing allot of hyway driving, not for the truck, but for the safety issue, primarily getting stopped in a decent distance. With a bumper hitch or frame mounted rear hitch you will still be able to use your bed for hauling but will only be able to pull about 75% of the weight that you could with the other type. For the decking we like to use either Red or White Oak. The last trailer that I done I had the boards plained rather than rough sawn. I really like this as the deck is nice and flat and you can easily slide stuff on the surface. The next thing to consider is type of braking system for the trailer. Electric are the most popular. To date I have only found on controller that I like it is quite expensive but is well worth it in tires saved and less trips to the chiropractor to work with the whiplash that most electric brakes are noted for. If you want more info you can respond to me personally. I believe that I also have some sources for trailer building plans. Garrett Martin Willets Lake Apiaries Nappanee, IN USA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:21:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: contaminated chinese honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Or perhaps such a co-op does exist? We have got one large coop but some of the largest honey producers do not belong for reasons I will not go into on BEE-L. You need to (or at least used to) provide the coop with 40,000 pounds of honey and up per season to belong. The coop also has agreements with and does purchase large amounts of Argentine honey. If so, does it do enough to emphasise that the brand is guaranteed pure USA honey? Many packers stick a U.S. only label on their honey but those same packers I am talking about buy most of the foreign honey. They say all the honey they sell in the U.S. is bought in the U.S. A few employees of the above large packers have said differently to me and others in private. Many use a generic label with around six countries of possible honey origin. Argentina honey producers are waking up and pricing higher which helps our market. China is a honey dumper and always will be. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:51:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: "Washboard movement" at entrances MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've noticed a couple of hives do this washboard movement both on the front of the hive and the landing board. Possibly they are just bored? Kathy Cox, Northern California, Italian, 17 hives :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:29:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Honey Board referendum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, A reminder to those beekeepers which are eligible to vote it is time to send your honey board referendum vote back in. I am mailing mine back tomorrow. If you did not read the attached instructions and sent your ballot back after you received the ballot ( weeks ago) then you need to ask for another ballot as your ballot will not be counted if received before July 25 th. My ballot was received by me on July 7th. So if you mailed your ballot back early you need to get another ballot and if your ballot is still laying in a stack of papers you need to get the ballot out and fill out and mail. I believe the voting will be close and your vote could make the difference. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:05:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: contaminated chinese honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim said: so FIRST solve the underlying problem of meeting the US demand for honey with US honey. The U.S. beekeeper has no intention of producing all the honey for the U.S.. A few years ago we could not even sell our honey *UNLESS* WE CAME DOWN TO THE .37 a pound chinese honey was selling for. Tens of thousands of barrels of U.S. honey sat in warehouses while the packers only bought enough U.S. honey to blend the baker grade honey produced in Mexico/ Argentina and CHINA with. Jim said: As it stands now, we consume more than we produce, and we had better be nice to our counterparts who fly different flags, 'cause without them, the supply of honey to the consumer would be about as dependable as I agree! The U.S. will always in my opinion need to import honey BUT WHEN ALL THE COMMERCIAL BEEKEEPERS HAVE WENT BANKRUPT AS WAS HAPPENING IN THE 90'S who is going to do the U.S. crop pollination? We can always buy our honey but China, Argentina and others will be of little help with our pollination problems. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:33:19 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Favorite books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Bob Harrison took me to task about my choice of 'A Modern Bee Farm' written by Sammuel Simmins I am not suggesting that this book would serve as a manual for present day beekeeping, but that the man was way ahead of his time... He had a fertile mind and applied it vigorously. With our hindsight we could pick a few holes in his ideas, but I still consider that it is an important book and would beg Bob to read a copy (I know he will enjoy it). I would say that no beekeeper's education is complete without reading some of these old books to get a grip on the mindset of when they were written. As with all old books one should always bear in mind the author's credentials, motive and any possible hidden agenda. As to the 'New beekeeper' that Bob describes... I hope such examples are as rare in USA as they are in UK, hopefully such individuals will not go on to write beekeeping books! Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:48:55 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Vita's new field testing kit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Aaron & all I am still catching up with my Email after being away for 8 days.... Aaron asks... > Does one infer from this that the test kit is solely for the vegetative > stage of AFB and not of use when testing scale? Max has answered this in a recent post. > Aaron Morris - wishing I had been at Gormanston to ask first hand! You missed a fabulous gathering, but then you have been before and thus you are aware that it is not the 'run of the mill' conference. Gormanston does get advertised, but mere words cannot express the intensity of everything that goes on there. I am very thankful to the organisers for a all the work that goes in to make it such a unique and important event. Never mind Aaron... It is not too early to book for next year! Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman G8MZY Beekeeping and Bee Breeding Website http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:29:39 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: contaminated chinese honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison said: > We have got one large coop but some of the largest honey producers do not > belong ....... Interesting - can we be told more how well this works for the producers who are in? Do they get a better price? Is the market for the USA-labelled honey more secure against fluctuations - especially against fluctuations caused by scares on contamination from blending in uncontrolled foriegn honey? If so, why do smaller producers not start a smaller co-op open to producers who supply say only 2,000 lbs a year - the UK co-op takes small amounts. OK, the smaller scale co-op might have to be based on only one state or travel could be excessive - but a federation of smaller co-ops could still have many of the advantages of a large single operation. The key to protecting market demand for pure honey would be that it would be the producers who own the co-op and set policy and specs for processing. It does not sound as tho the large co-op is under control. Jim Fischer came up with the curious view that "As it stands now, we consume more than we produce, and we had better be nice to our counterparts who fly different flags, 'cause without them, the supply of honey to the consumer would be about as dependable as the supply of spare parts for 1975 Bricklins". "We " here can only mean some body that is concerned with continuity of supply to the USA population. That does not mean honey producers. Surely the business of honey producers is to only produce pure honey and to sell it in a way that ensures the product reaches customers in a fit and proper condition. If demand for pure USA honey exceeds supply, then the price will rise until more producers enter the business, when price will level off at the economic level at which the industry is sustainable. All evidence seems to be that customers will pay more for pure honey - the marketing of a mere low-cost, sweet-tasting paste can be left to food maufacturers and the public will learn to distinguish the two provided the brand labels are distinctive. My interest in this - as a UK onlooker - stems from my off-sung song that the true significance of honey is that it is a medicinal product , matured by bees from the nectar of a wide-range of plants, many of which have been ascribed medicinal value in earlier times. Honey can be used specifically to treat some ailments - but its value thru regular use as a regulator of bodily heath is supreme. Only few honies have been investigated - but New Zealand Manuka honey (tested and labelled for bactericidal activity on a scale 1-10) now sells for many times the price of floral honey, although work by Dr Rose Cooper at Cardiff University suggests floral honey can be just as effective and its medicinal value is simply not recognised. We - beekeepers - will only make progress on this when we start to value the product ourselves and stop supplying it to be mucked about and sold in competion with foriegn rubbish. Would not organising a federation of smaller honey co-ops be less work - and less frustrating - than campaigning for all the legislative changes to labelling regulations that Bob was wondering about? Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:34:58 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Re: contaminated chinese honey - labels In-Reply-To: <3F270D5E.6F9B0B0A@club-internet.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Peter Dillon a écrit : > Packers have problems indicating specific > proportions of honeys AND the source country in > batch > mixes. Can't they really ? I see some Canadian packers labelling honey origin with stickers added on original labels to claim that their honey is not from China... after having beeing caught with contaminated Chinese honey. And it seems to me that some European packers (particulary in France) also specify the country of origin. > I suggest that the present grading by colour is one > of the biggest hindrances to good use of honey > and acceptance by the public. So true, so true. But you are lucky to have european customers already "taste educated". > Label up the honey - Origin, Type, Processing > treatment and nutrition info. (and for those wishing > for it, whether it contains GM material, even if it > is below 1%) I am so glad to read such thoughs. This is the only way we can compete with foreign honeys from "low-social protection" countries. And this is the only way to ensure customers freedom to chose. At my micro-scale level, I tried to implement a honey track systeme available on the web for my customers. Origin, process, quality criteria, working methodology are easy to document. But I face one problem when dealing with "mono-floral" analysis by pollen. Difficult to find standards even for main flowers (quel pourcentage de pollen doit-on retenir pour certifier qu'un miel est majoritairement (quelle majorité?) de tel type floral ou d'un autre). It seems to me there are also many labelling abuses with floral types. Hervé www.emelys.com ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:56:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Williamson Subject: Re: I need some help - Hive Beetle >Do a search on google.com for aethina tumida and you will get at least 100 Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: contaminated chinese honey Comments: To: jfischer@supercollider.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim said: so FIRST solve the underlying problem of meeting the US demand for honey with US honey. The U.S. beekeeper has no intention of producing all the honey for the U.S.. A few years ago we could not even sell our honey *UNLESS* WE CAME DOWN TO THE .37 a pound chinese honey was selling for. Take the offer or walk away the packers said. Tens of thousands of barrels of U.S. honey sat in warehouses while the packers only bought enough U.S. honey to blend the baker grade honey produced in Mexico/ Argentina and CHINA with. What goes around comes around! Now the beekeeper is in control and using his windfall profits to pay sharp lawyers to change the playing field. The worst packer offender has now went bankrupt. Jim said: As it stands now, we consume more than we produce, and we had better be nice to our counterparts who fly different flags, 'cause without them, the supply of honey to the consumer would be about as dependable as I agree! The U.S. will always in my opinion need to import honey BUT WHEN ALL THE COMMERCIAL BEEKEEPERS HAVE WENT BANKRUPT AS WAS HAPPENING IN THE 90'S who is going to do the U.S. crop pollination? Only a few senators even cared. Our government protected us from the packers in the 1980's to keep us from going out of business and to keep the crops pollinated. The U.S. honey producer was indeed on the endangered species list! The Honey board even sold a T shirt saying the above! Then a few senators complained about the money only going to a few beekeepers. Millionaire beekeepers were the words they used. We lost the program . One of my close friends was one of the beekeepers they talked about. He was hardly in the millionaire category! We could not believe all the BS a few senators in Washington were saying about millionaire beekeepers! Right now the beekeepers are dealing the cards instead of the packers! As Clint Eastwood would say: "All you honest packers step away from the dishonest packers when the shooting starts!" Bob Missouri- home of famous outlaws! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:45:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: I need some help - Hive Beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Robert, I would suggest joining the Florida Beekeepers list ( of which I am a member and lurker) and asking the questions and research their archives as small hive beetle is discussed almost daily. Now is a busy time for beekeepers and many of the university people are still on break which means low activity on lists. Small Hive beetle has been discussed many times and if you do a search in the BEE-L archives with small hive beetle and my name as author you should get information. I have not found small hive beetle in my bees yet but they are in Missouri so I can not give first hand information. Sorry. Back to the honey house to extract. I do not want to be still extracting in October like last year! Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:53:46 +0100 Reply-To: pdillon@club-internet.fr Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Organization: Home Subject: Re: contaminated chinese honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some might be interested to read as found on www.apiservices.com having clicked your language choice, new pages, a file on "The E.U. legislation for honey residue control" PDF file 179Kb. (NB. for Jim F. - for info : EEC passes under EU - since several years). Also in the Adulteration file area (of honey that is!), Dossier Adulteration et Pollution des produits Apicoles Dossier sur les Fraudes dans le secteur du miel (COPA-COGECA). And under "new pages" - a reasonable amount on recent info.relating to AFB (in several languages!) Those interested and able to read French - search: "Le REQUAM" A program trying to define properties of specific mono floral honeys. All this, so that you can get informed in those few hours between extracting. Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:27:15 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: david flathman Subject: Re: I need some help - Hive Beetle Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed gee why didn't I think of that. I too was hoping for some suggestions on how to control the small hive beetles. Most important i have found is using the strips on the bottom board under a piece of cardboard. I am afraid that the reason noone has come forward is because there are no good answers. Dr hood at clemson is doing research on the beetles but there are no easy answers yet. Someone suggested that a fire ant colony in front of the hive will control the larvae that leave the hive to pupate. Some kind of chemical or physical barier on the ground in front of the hive is sure to be part of the solution. David in Charleston SC _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:02:55 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Daiell Dempsey Subject: Re: NWC supercedure difficulties In-Reply-To: <002201c355c9$ca864350$30256118@newdell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > supercedure from new nucs > > This year I purchased 150 NWC queens from my usual > high-quality supplier in > California. He only uses breeders directly from Sue > Cobey as mothers for > his NWC queens. Are these supercedure cells or spare Queen cells from a Russian drone? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 07:55:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: I need some help - Hive Beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > gee why didn't I think of that. I'm a little dissappointed that this is the > sum of information to be had between both beekeeping newsgroups. I'll just > have to assume there are no southern east coast beekeepers in either of > them. > ... > Robert > I don't think gnashing your teeth at the group is going to achieve your goals. From the little bit of research that I've done on hive beetles, it's a new enough problem that there is not a great deal of consensus on how to deal with them (at least here in the Northeast). FWIW - your response indicates that you're hoping for a panacea; some sort of magic wand to make the problem go away. From my relatively brief experience in beekeeping, it seems obvious that these panaceas do not exist - we have to be creative, industrious, and persistent to find solutions to these problems. We also have to be willing to adapt ideas to our own circumstance, and experiment. Yelling at our busy peers because they don't rush to our aid serves no one, and fails utterly to solve your problem. I personally find this list to be an absolute treasure, and value the opinions offered to my questions, whether there's only one, or ten. My additional advice: - call your state bee inspector - search the archives - search the net (an incredible resource for the persistent) - as Bob Harrison pointed out, seek aid through your local beekeepers & associations - at least try the simple suggestion I offered before dismissing it Regards, and good luck. Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 07:20:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: TxBeeFarmer Organization: The Little ~ Coldiron Farm Subject: Re: Creaming of Crystallized Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the link provided by Alan Riach for making creamed honey, it recommended letting the honey crystallize completely, then warm JUST enough get a paddle in and then stir vigorously until creamy. This will produce double cream texture creamed honey that will not reharden. Sounds like a very simple method. Just thinking out loud here, but wouldn't running course grained, crystallized honey through a gear pump in a continuous loop from bucket to pump and back again produce the desired smooth texture. Just a thought. (West Texas) Mark ----- Original Message ----- > ... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gandboss/index.htm > Click on Main Bee Page, then on Easy Processing of Oil Seed Rape Honey... :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:23:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Griggs Subject: Re: Books Old & New Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been following the discussion on favorite books which is quite interesting in of itself! The part where I feel that the older texts play an important role is in filling in the gaps. Sure many of the older books are more likely to hold antidotal observations rather than scientifically validated facts, however these older texts are rife with good observations. It always impresses me to read "factual" texts of the early 1900's as opposed to current scientific papers. They would add in all kinds of observations which editors of today would strike without a second thought. Observations of behavior, the weather, details that are not mentioned in todays fast paced, just the facts, style of reporting. Often the details provide more than materials, methods, results! These older books allow beekeepers to look at where we have come in beekeeping. While we are still operating with post civil war bee hives we have added sophisticated energy intensive tools to increase our level of productivity. When and why were these tools & procedures added or by whom? What was the thinking behind introducing certain strains of bee? What has been the motivation behind moving from one chemical treatment to another? Amazingly, our core tools--hive tool, smoker, boxes etc remain relatively unchanged since 1900. As a side to my few cents I would like to add that the digitization of the EF Phillips Rare Beekeeping Book Collection is currently underway some of the pre 1925 volumes selected are being prepared to be mounted on-line for anyone to view! For more information explaining the program & where the first volumes should appear check visit EAS website or download the following PDf http://www.easternapiculture.org/programs/phillips.pdf cheers Mike Griggs Entomologist/ Support Scientist Plant Protection Research Unit USDA ARS, U.S. Plant, Soil & Nutrition Lab. Tower Road, Ithaca, NY 14853 http://www.ppru.cornell.edu/PPRU.htm phone: 607-255-1085 fax: 607-255-1132 email: mhg3@cornell.edu :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:15:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "D. McBride" Subject: Coumafos removal patent While researching a completely unrelated topic I came across U.S. patent 6,586,610, "Method for removing coumafos from beeswax", filed in April of last year. The patent is not for an object or device but a methodology for the removal of coumafos. A search of the Bee-L archives didn't turn up any discussion on the subject. Has anyone had any experience, with specific measurement and monitoring, to determine the validity of this particular method? The patent particularly caught my eye considering the current debate regarding tainted Chinese honey. Any input would be appreciated, especially if this methodology in turn is able to simultaneously remove additional contamination of other residual compounds. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:18:31 -0400 Reply-To: Buckner Lewis Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Buckner Lewis Subject: Re: I need some help - Hive Beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert, Hive beetles are a fact of life here in Florida and I just spray the ground around the hives with GuardStar or Starguard.. Strong hives seem to tolerate them. I really do not concern myself with them that much, just the cost of having bees. Mites now are a different set of problems. Keep the hives strong and out in the sun. Good luck.. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:30:30 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Durk Ellison Subject: Healthcare of bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Healthcare of bees, bee-products and natural bee-stinging Reflections of a contemporary, traditional healer. Introduction. First of all, please don't think that I am considering myself above anyone or anything. In the following lines, you will get an insight into the functioning of a little ant that feels entirely connected and melted with the environing life of plants, minerals and animals. With time, I have now been tending man and woman, children, dogs, cats, seabirds and chickens, ostriches, a pig, ponies, a few donkeys, a cow and a few horses, a large number of invertebrates including grasshoppers and literally (and professionally for 15 years) thousands of tarantulas, lastly snakes, of which I found it my dubious pleasure to be tending African swamp vipers and temperamental Western Diamondbacks. But every time I have been working with patients, be they human or animal, I have always been faced with an individual, to whom the necessary time could be given for its healthcare. Tending bees is something new for me, as I am faced with a small colony of 20000 bees and that I am tending 'the entire house', as such, I have to adapt to this: I always speak to animals, and here I am turning to speaking to a whole People, which makes it different, or a little different for the moment. Recently, a beekeeping friend of mine has brought me an infected hive with minimal varroa population but with expanding Wing deformity and a lot of bees that cannot fly but have intact wings. The hive was doomed, but as I have always been looking for bees to tend, now my dream is coming true, as it is a many-year-long dream to start conceiving homotoxicological products for the health of bees. I would like to transmit this way of thinking to anyone who wants to share in this work, I hope that beekeepers will as such find a way to immunize large numbers of hives with time.but it is all climbing work, I can make no miracles as a tiny little ant, I can only try and contribute with my limited knowledge to a world I am just entirely enamoured with. PRODUCTS Knowledge is something that is not fixed, it is not a block, it is fluid, it flows, its course can be changed by the presence of a single rock or boulder, as such, all my life I have been looking for alternatives when in one or the other case "incurable" or "we can't do anything about this condition" was said to a particular patient. In the case of bees and their immunity deficiency diseases, mostly provoked by varroa and the diseases the mite transmits to bees (we know hardly a handful of tick-induced diseases in man yet, there are many, many more), I have followed product development with chemicals, acids, essential oils (better alternative yet), but never with homeopathy or homotoxicology. So for serious diseases in bees, I plan to proceed as follows or am proceeding as follows in this case, please just follow the reasoning behind it, nothing is FIXED, I hope that what I'm writing is going to serve the honey bee, and subsequently man, and there are many people far more able and intelligent than I am who WILL produce THE better product. It is a naïve dream of mine that such good formulas should be transmitted for free for the well-being of the honey bee, at least I can sleep nicely with my conscience: I just LOVE all creatures, great and small (except ticks, mosquitoes and horseflies). BASICS. To strengthen the immunity of bees, I am using my tonifying honey with 40 gr of royal jelly, 1 kg of Lime tree honey, 50gr of pollen, 15gr of propolis, 15 gr of Echinaea root tincture, 15 gr of dandelion root tincture, 15gr of Harpagophytum tubercle tincture. 1 kg of preparation is split into two half kilograms. I add 250gr of MINERAL water and mix well. HOMOTOXICOLOGICAL PRODUCTS. I prepare, from the hive concerned: 25 gr of healthy, vigorous bees in 250gr of 98% alcohol, 1 night intact maceration, next day put the blender in, 8 days maceration. (don't forget they are probable carriers of the disease but they are still strong flyers.) 50gr of intermediate stage bees beginning Wing deformity in alcohol, same working procedure as above, in 500gr of alcohol 10gr WDV bees in 50gr of alcohol, same as above. Please: I have hardly any varroa in the hive I'm tending here: for varroa infestation: 50 gr of VARROA-COVERED LIVE BEES in 500gr of alcohol, same as above. For Nosema: same For chalkbrood: the chalkbrood in alcohol For AFB: discussion topic for later, please, same for European FoulBrood. Working principles of homotoxicology. Homo-toxicology is the treatment of bacterial, viral or parasitary diseases by the specific bacteria, virus or parasite itself. For such purpose, a tincture is made as described above. Then I dilute 5 drops of each tincture (10cg) in a 30gr vial of: Achillea millefolium herba tincture (Yarrow) Peucedanum ostruthium root tincture Urtica urens foliae Apium graveolens Which lower blood pressure a little, deliver numerous minerals, and keeps the airways well open, strengthens the immunity and delivers INULINE. In this preparation I add: Bryony root: 25 drops (50cg) Belladonna leaf tincture: 10cg Henbane leaf tincture: 10cg Datura stramonium leaf tincture 10cg Aconite leaf tincture: 6cg Carbo animalis Pulveres: 1 gr (I make Carbo animalis once every 4-5 years: I tend two young roosters with loving care, and once they start becoming adult and large, I bring them to a friend with a pottery oven. The roosters are dispatched almost painlessly and quickly (no stress!!!!) then but with feather and all at once in the pottery oven at 1400°C for 5 hours. Afterwards take an armour to protect yourself from the artist because the smell of the oven opening is terrible) but from 5 kilograms of rooster you get about a small 700grams of pure animal ashes) This is well-shaken in the fluid. Of this preparation, 1 to 2 coffespoons are added to each half kilogram of tonifying honey and fed from the top of the hive to the bees. Be VERY attentive: homeopathy has been decried as 'ineffective" and "placebo-medicine", I can assure the List that I have seen people and animals react to homotoxicological dilutions with such violence as to almost cause their deaths in certain cases (bacterial tumors in dogs tended with Reckeweg 87, Aspergillus niger preparations in Aspergillus bronchial diseases in man, Strongylus-Flagellates-blood parasite preparation in man, anti-viral Reckeweg 88 in bacterial tumor in cats). Therefore that I always add a little Nightshades, preferably of the three most common species who have overlapping effects and which guarantee that no anaphylactic shock can occur (I would advise the homeopathic use of the three nightshades if you fear an anaphylactic shock with beestinging, or the preventive use of the three nightshades before working and the curative addition of Pulmo anaphylacticum 30k (7CH) in case of severe reaction to bee stings: take a complete flask of granules.) I feed half a kilogram of this every noontime. The first three evenings, I use my smoking device which is loaded with dried: Tanacetum vulgare herba Datura stramonium leaves 10% Tobacco 10% I pump smoke just a few times and close the hive, then, after ten minute, I ventilate to avoid causing mayhem in the hive. As such, the rest is up to your personal feeling and observation of the bees, I'll keep you posted on the results with my hive. PERSONAL THINKING ABOUT BEE STINGING I'm not talking of BVT here, but I have, with time, been more and more surprised when studying the physical geography of stung areas of the body in beekeepers and other bee-stung people. Let me explain: my friend the beekeeper is always the central point of savage aggression by his bees. Ok, he doesn't work with Italian or Caucasian or Buckfast bees, he works with the old European race of our area. Yesterday, while opening the hive, he was once more stung 9 times, but for the past months we have taken the leisure of noting down the stinging points and putting it next to anatomical stinging charts of the body. My friend the beekeeper is suffering of severe, diffuse arthritis and arthrosis, a blood disorder with normal RBC values but elevated Haematocrite but normal CK, ALT, AST, but raised Chloride and Na, indicating kidney malfunction. I was next to him and we both carried just top protection with sandals and socks. I wasn't stung, but noted (in awe) that they had literally formed a ring around both ankles. Another bee had climbed up his left leg and stung him in the middle top of the kneecap. So, with time, I am now truly believing that the bee herself was the first apitherapist, and that a bee knows where to sting the beekeeper and if he needs stinging. If you would like to see our little study, I will try to scan in the drawings and pictures of recorded stinging places. Lately, a swarm attacked a number of elderly people from a retirement home that were having a walk out IN bruges. A number of people were stung a few times (again meridian points of the face and forearms), but one of them was stung over 500times.I cannot but feel that this person was carrying around some disease or other, and that the massive stinging may have rid him of it. He's still around and okay. All things to make us think of the world around us, there is a reason to everything, but this is a very personal opinion. Have a nice day all, Philip the herbalist philipcharpentier@hotmail.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:33:17 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Books Old & New MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks a lot, Mike. However, don't use a book printed prior to about 1990 as your "BIBLE", or "final" authority. Unfortunately, far too many people have done exactly that; and hence they know nothing about mites, hive beetles, pheromones, hygienic bees, SMR, or the important findings of the last 20 years. We are not alone. There weren't any very accurate Timex watches twenty years ago, and now the $20 Timex with a battery and chip are accurate to about 1 minute per year. Today, no car has a distributor that uses points and condenser, but 20 years ago, 90% of all cars had not yet switched to electronic ignition. Last week there was an organ transplant of a BRAIN, and 20 years ago the transplant of a liver was in its infancy. I have whole library of great bee books, INCLUDING A HUBER! I treasure them to remember my problems when I first got bees, 1933. However, as a scientist, one should try to keep abreast of every new finding about apis mellifera PROVIDED THAT THE FINDING IS HEAVILY SUPPORTED SCIENTIFICALLY. Have a fine EAS, and I wish I could be there. George Imirie Certified EAS Master Beekeeper :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:23:55 -0700 Reply-To: mejensen@pacbell.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mark Jensen Organization: No Junk Mail Subject: Re: Creaming of Crystallized Honey In-Reply-To: <001c01c3575e$28b37de0$8f80c641@me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 07:20:40 -0500, TxBeeFarmer wrote: >Just thinking out loud here, but wouldn't running course grained, >crystallized honey through a gear pump in a continuous loop from bucket to >pump and back again produce the desired smooth texture. Just a thought. This is what the Nassenheider honey dispenser is claimed to do. I have used one to dispense creamed honey, and it does seem to cream coarse grained honey. I have not tried to pass it through that machine more than once. Mark Mark Jensen mejensen@pacbell.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:31:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Fully drawn plastic comb Comments: To: Jeffrey=Young%SQA%Banyan@MAGNOLIA.BANYAN.COM >* Also how the 6 inch "Perma-Comb Units" (basically fully drawn depth plastic > honey comb units) seem to be working out in the real world? Hi Jeff, did you get any answer? I am wondering about the consequences of using these as brood comb -- will the accumulating cocoons eventually render it unusable? Zachary :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::