From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:45:29 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-93.0 required=2.4 tests=AWL,SPF_HELO_PASS, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F64448FDE for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDbKlH012089 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:17 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0401E" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 72129 Lines: 1597 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:22:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Griggs Subject: Re: SCREEN BOTTOM BOARDS IN WINTER Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v612) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed A number of years ago I did an experiment where I needed to monitor specific weather parameters at a site over the winter. I was trying to determine if insect pathogenic fungal resting spores could survive our winters in upstate NY. Basically I had weather stations at each location recording air temp, soil temp/soil moisture at 6 inches, wind speed, direction, and a temperature probe on the ground. Weekly, I would collect the data as well as measure snow depth. The interesting part of this was that the temperature under the snow remained at 32 degrees regardless of air temperature. One soil surface probe became exposed and was then subject to the whims of air temp, all other sub snow probes at the soil interface were amazingly constant, whether the day warmed up or the night got very cold. It is no wonder that igloo's are a great place to live if you have no other building materials! Mike Griggs Entomologist/ Support Scientist Plant Protection Research Unit USDA ARS, U.S. Plant, Soil & Nutrition Lab. Tower Road, Ithaca, NY 14853 http://www.ppru.cornell.edu/PPRU.htm phone: 607-255-1085 fax: 607-255-1132 email: mhg3@cornell.edu :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:02:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Todd Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This discussion points toward what should be an obvious by-product of breeding (i.e. human selection for various traits). If we look to virtually any example of human breeding programs, we see a REDUCTION of genetic information, and a resultant loss of overall vigor and long-term survivability. This is exactly why cultivated fruits and vegetables, as well as pure-bred dogs & horses are so fussy and needy of human care. Most breeding programs rely on line breeding techniques, which are, in essence, in-breeding. This is necessary to isolate desireable traits. The problem is that by isolating observable, desirable traits, we usually eliminate unseen, and possibly necessary traits that contribute to overall vigor and survivability (and often thereby amplify other clearly undesirable traits). In fact, we trade one problem for another (or maybe three). It is a classic case of 'man knows best' when man doesn't really know diddly. I'm not condemning breeding as such, since a great many desirable plant cultivars and animal breeds are the results of such breeding. However, we must recognize the inherent negative effects of such breeding, and their potential effects on beekeeping. Our understanding of the genetics of any creature is analogous to having a vocabulary of twenty words and trying to read the entire Encyclopedia Britannica Accordingly, the bee genome consists of about 300,000,000 amino acid base pairs of DNA (very little of which is really 'understood'). By contrast, there are approx. 183,000,000 characters in the entire set of Encyclopedia Brittanica. This means that the DNA in every bee cell contains about twice as much highly organized data as an entire set of Encylopedia Brittanica. To think that we believe that we know how to 'properly' organize this data better than what (or who) created it, seems me to show considerable hubris. Maybe it's time to take some lessons from mother nature? Regards, Todd. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:07:18 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aula apicola Subject: Re: IV INTERNATIONAL APICULTURE PHOTOGRAPHY CONTEST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You are free if you don't send us your data bank. In the case you become winer we shall ask you for then. For more information, please visit our web http://www.aulaapicolazuqueca.com/ Agustín Arias Martínez Coordinador Aula Apícola Municipal Concejalía del Medio Ambiente Azuqueca de Henares- Guadalajara España aulaapicola@jet.es ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 5:46 AM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] IV INTERNATIONAL APICULTURE PHOTOGRAPHY CONTEST > From: Aula apicola > Subject: IV INTERNATIONAL APICULTURE PHOTOGRAPHY CONTEST > Each photograph shall include the next information: account bank number whit (with)swif code > > I am very concerned about giving anyone my bank information. How valid is this contest and accompanying request. > > Mike > Located 1/2 way between Mobile and Montgomery > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:49:08 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: BEE-L moderators Subject: Remote Beehive Monitoring System MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This came in this morning via BeeGadgets, and although many BEE-L members are also on that list, perhaps this is of sufficient interest to all that we will offer it here too. BEE-L normally does not encourage commercial submissions, but well written press releases that are truly novel, like this, are always considered. This is however, not an endorsement of the product and is presented for your interest only. --- begin quote --- BeeSystem announces the new generation of remote beehives monitoring systems. First 10 systems will be tested in real "field environment" this winter, and will be ready for commercial use by April 2004. Key features of the new architecture: - Up to 254 high-precision sensors per one apiary controller (including meteorological sensors). - Up to 16 types of sensors, such as weight, temperature, humidity, CO2, barometric pressure etc. - Full autonomy with solar panel (you don't need external power supply or battery recharging). - Automatic problem detection and notification by SMS messages. - Works at hundreds and thousands miles from your home. - You can have access to your real-time data (with reports, graphics, analysis etc.) from everywhere in the world (you just need an internet connection). - Full data reporting by e-mail. - You don't need to buy and install any hardware or software on your home PC. You need just internet connection and web-browser. - Easy to install and upgrade system. Using all our experience while engineering this system, we tried to keep the most affordable price. If you are interested in having this system in your possession, please contact me: alex@beesystem.ca For more information and price quotes, please visit our web site http://www.beesystem.ca . This site is available for US and Canadian visitors only. --- end quote --- For those who have missed previous announcements about BeeGadgets, BG is a low volume, moderated discussion list especially created to discuss novel ideas and gadgets when the discussion gets beyond the scope and interest of BEE-L's mandate -- "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology". BG also permits discussion of existing equipment and supplies. Community email addresses: Subscribe: BeeGadgets-subscribe@onelist.com Unsubscribe: BeeGadgets-unsubscribe@onelist.com URL: http://www.onelist.com/community/BeeGadgets --- Readers are reminded also that participants in other lists and forums are requested to bring to the attention of BEE-L readers any particularly interesting discussions occurring elsewhere, and to summarize such topics to this list, if possible within BEE-L guidelines. Crossposting is also acceptable, again assuming that the crosspost meets the BEE-L standards. Your friendly BEE-L janitors and nursemaids :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:51:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Alex Subject: BeeSystem Announcement. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit BeeSystem announces the new generation of remote beehives monitoring systems. First 10 systems will be tested in real “field environment” this winter, and will be ready for commercial use by April 2004. Key features of the new architecture: - Up to 254 high-precision sensors per one apiary controller (including meteorological sensors). - Up to 16 types of sensors, such as weight, temperature, humidity, CO2, barometric pressure etc. - Full autonomy with solar panel (you don’t need external power supply or battery recharging). - Automatic problem detection and notification by SMS messages. - Works at hundreds and thousands miles from your home. - You can have access to your real-time data (with reports, graphics, analysis etc.) from everywhere in the world (you just need an internet connection). - Full data reporting by e-mail. - You don’t need to buy and install any hardware or software on your home PC. You need just internet connection and web-browser. - Easy to install and upgrade system. Using all our experience while engineering this system, we tried to keep the most affordable price. If you are interested in having this system in your possession, please contact me: alex@beesystem.ca For more information and price quotes, please visit our web site www.beesystem.ca. This site is available for US and Canadian visitors only. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:00:07 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: SCREEN BOTTOM BOARDS IN WINTER Mike Griggs said: > The interesting part of this was that the temperature under > the snow remained at 32 degrees regardless of air temperature. I would have expected you to find variation in snow temperature at different depths. Regardless, for an unwrapped, uninsulated hive buried by a snowstorm, the snow certainly will provide some sort of "insulation", but more (most?) important, it will block the wind. Bee clusters don't radiate enough heat to even warm the interior of their hive, so there is not going to be much "igloo effect" if the hive is buried. That's a good thing. Too much heat, and you'd have bees breaking cluster, raising brood too early, and eating their way to certain starvation when you thought that they were firmly clustered and safe. I don't see a screened bottom having a negative impact in any scenario except those apiary locations that I would call "Ice Station Zebra", those beyond the natural range of bees. ...but hives on those waist-high stands could be in serious trouble if equipped with screened bottoms. Most winds are blocked by terrain for hives on cinderblocks or other "low" stands. I'd be worried about the wind chilling the bee cluster if the screened bottom was very far off the ground. What happens to a ribbon stapled to the underside of a hive on one of these high stands? I'd expect it to wave like a flag in breeze. This would seem to me to be a potential problem, as a very cold "upstate New York" kind of wind can blow across the screen, set up an air current between the hive and the outside, and chill the surface of the cluster down. (Of course, if this were a serious problem, the screen would soon be covered with dead bees, blocking the screen, making it a self-correcting problem, perhaps before it resulted in a dead-out.) For seasonal snow cover (not glaciers) on "solid ground", with air temps below freezing, the temperature would be closer to the air temp towards the top, and would get warmer (closer to 32F / 0C) as one probes lower. When air temp is above freezing, the snow at the surface will be warmer (its is melting), and deeper snow colder. There is considerable heat transfer between the bottom and top of even a layer of snow several feet deep. Snow and ice crystals themselves aren't always exactly at 32 F, even when the air temp is. Air is a lousy absorber of solar radiation. Snow is better. Snow may have a very high albedo and reflective ability, but it absorbs more solar radiation than the air. Snow and ice can melt in the sun even though the air temperature is 32 F or slightly below. When skiing in Europe, one will often be lectured by members of the blaze-orange jacketed ski patrol about "avalanche potential", and one of the ominous signs of danger is the "temperature gradients" within the base snowpack. If they find scary gradients when they do their daily measurements, they close entire sides of mountains. jim (Who lived in New Hampshire before snowblowers were consumer products, and, like the eskimos, has 1,000 words to describe snow. Unlike the eskimos, all of his words are unprintable.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:31:41 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Martin Braunstein Subject: Indoor Splitting of Hives In-Reply-To: <200401290501.i0T0Yv0i023406@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, I am Martin Braunstein a commercial queen breeder in central Argentina. I wonder whether someone on the list has any direct experience or at least knowledge about splitting colonies indoors at a warehouse with yellow light at late evening or night. Thanks in advance for any feedback. Martin Braunstein MALKA Queens - www.beekeeping.com/malka/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:34:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: SCREEN BOTTOM BOARDS IN WINTER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-47AF61B4; boundary="=======4A58133F=======" --=======4A58133F======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-47AF61B4; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >Bee clusters don't radiate enough heat to even warm the >interior of their hive, so there is not going to be much >"igloo effect" if the hive is buried. Actually, they do. Some years my hives are totally buried by snow. So deep you need a long handled shovel, handle first, to find them. If you dig the hives out of the snow you'll see what I mean. There is a chamber formed around the hive, where there is no snow. Did it melt? I would think so. And, around dead hives? The snow is packed in tight around the hive. Dig out the front of a row of beehives when the snow is deep like this, and you can tell which are dead or alive, by the "igloos," or lack of, around them. Mike --=======4A58133F=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:43:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Indoor Splitting of Hives In-Reply-To: <20040129173141.52558.qmail@web13608.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You can contact these people as I have helped them do what you are talking about. http://msa.ars.usda.gov/la/btn/hbb/ That is me in the back by the window. Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 896 5247 > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:29:32 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Indoor Splitting of Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Martin, > I wonder whether someone on the list has any direct > experience or at least knowledge about splitting > colonies indoors at a warehouse with yellow light at > late evening or night. This is nto quite the same, but maybe it will hep: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/pkgnucs.htm allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:44:10 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: IV INTERNATIONAL APICULTURE PHOTOGRAPHY CONTEST In-Reply-To: <4018902C.7080106@frontiernet.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Mike, Any e-mail that asks for bank information is a scam. Tom Elliott Chugiak, AK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 20:18:09 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: SCREEN BOTTOM BOARDS IN WINTER > Some years my hives are totally buried by snow. So deep you need a long > handled shovel, handle first, to find them. If you dig the hives out of > the snow you'll see what I mean. There is a chamber formed around the hive, > where there is no snow. Did it melt? I would think so. > And, around dead hives? The snow is packed in tight around the hive. Dig > out the front of a row of beehives when the snow is deep like this, and > you can tell which are dead or alive, by the "igloos," or lack of, around them. Doesn't the observation above imply that there was very limited ventilation for these buried hives? If such a small amount of heat (as is generated by bee respiration and radiated heat from the cluster) is able to melt snow away from the hive, this would seem to only be possible if there was little or no ventilation. I'd call the melted snow a "bad" sign, but here in Virginia, we have cold AND damp, unlike your drier cold snaps up there in the "People's Republic of Vermont". jim (Dr. Martin Luther King: "I have a dream..." Dr. Howard Dean: "I have a SCREAM...") :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:48:35 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Barrett Subject: Fungus vs. Varroa: A New Tool? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello All Dr. Rosalind James USDA-ARS Bee Biology and Systematics Laboratory Logan, UT wrote: >so it is likely that a fungal product will cost the bee >keeper more than current pesticide strips, but hopefully not much more. But when the mites are resistant to all strips, the comparison is no longer valid and Dr James treatment may be cheap at any price. The alternative, the loss of the bees will always cost more than any treatment in my opinion. Here in Ireland we have faithfully (and in my opinion mistakenly), followed in the footsteps of the synthetic chemical afficianados and we will shortly pay the price. Resistance to Bayvarol (Apistan) is now just around the corner. Resistance is now spreading in the UK right next door to us. I can see us having to use Coumaphos in the not too distant future. What a prospect? And I would like to take this opportunity to wish Dr James all the best in his endeavours to control this mite without the synthetic chemicals.Surely it is much better to light a candle than to curse the darkness? Sincerely Tom Barrett Dublin Ireland :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 06:57:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: wintering under snow Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4202762D; boundary="=======74AD1E76=======" --=======74AD1E76======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4202762D; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >jim fischer said: > >Doesn't the observation above imply that there was very limited >ventilation for these buried hives? The buried colonies come through the winter in good condition, so there must be "enough" ventilation. Besides the air chamber around the hives, there is often a "chimney" to the surface. Snow pack is not like being under water. There is air under the snow. >If such a small amount of heat >(as is generated by bee respiration and radiated heat from the cluster) >is able to melt snow away from the hive, this would seem to only >be possible if there was little or no ventilation. Well, obviously there is ventilation. While the amount of ventilation is not known by me, there is surely enough to allow survival by the colony...and have them come through the winter in good condition. >I'd call the melted snow a "bad" sign, Why? >but here in Virginia, we have >cold AND damp, unlike your drier cold snaps up there in the "People's >Republic of Vermont. >jim (Dr. Martin Luther King: "I have a dream..." > Dr. Howard Dean: "I have a SCREAM...") Oh yeah, I forgot I was talking to "jim," who sounds like my dear wife when she has to have the last word...and... We do have Howard, and civil unions, and maple syrup and "woodchucks," but... you in Virginia have..."John Mohammed, and Lee Boyd Malvoux." I know where I would rather bee... yours respectfully, and feeling like I have to defend myself and this beautiful place I live... Mike --=======74AD1E76=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:35:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jason Apol Subject: On the snow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good morning everyone. First time poster and rookie beekeeper here. This morning I walked out to one of my hives here in Michigan. It has been snowing for the last week and temperatures have been between 10-20 F even longer. I noticed that there were dead bees in the snow in front of the hive. Quite a few in fact. When I cleaned off the snow that had built up on the landing board, there was a considerable amount of dead bees buried just under the snow there too. Also there was noticeable amounts of brown drippy "stuff" (I assume excrement) on the front of the hive near the upper exit hole. The hive is insulated with 1 inch of styrofoam which is held in place by clear stretch film. I have a 1" exit hole in the top hive body and I have the outer cover propped up about 1/4" on one side to help with ventilation. The entrance is reduced. (Note that I am reasonably sure that the bees took flight at the same time because they were all covered with about a half inch of snow.) Placing my ear to the hole tells me there is still a colony inside. I can hear them humming. It has also alerted me to a mouse. My questions are as follows: 1) Are the dead bees on the snow a normal phenomenon? They left the hive at an ambient temperature not above 20 F. None of them made it farther than 8 feet, the bulk of them within 4 feet of the front of the hive. 2) Should I try to evict the mouse or let the bees take care of him in the spring? Thanks for your advice. This list is a great resource. ---------- Jason Apol ><> Practical Controls, Inc. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 08:50:25 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rossander Subject: Re: SCREEN BOTTOM BOARDS IN WINTER In-Reply-To: <0e6001c3e6ce$ec2d7780$7604c518@gollum> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii re: hives buried in snow and melting a cavity around the hive. Jim asks "Doesn't the observation above imply that there was very limited ventilation for these buried hives?..." Limited ventilation is a relative term and is probably irrelevant in this case. 1) There is actually quite a bit of respiration through snow. Oxygen and carbon dioxide migrate through relatively easily. (For example, winter survival training on building a snow cave says you seal the entrance once you're inside. You are in no danger of asphyxiation while inside and the available oxygen flow can even support a small candle in most conditions.) 2) As this list has repeatedly discussed, the real threat in a beehive is the elimination of excess humidity, not oxygen transport. The "traditional" response is to vent the humid air to the outside of the environment. In the impromptu snow cave the excess humidity will condense against the snow cavity walls, leaving drier air to recirculate into the beehive. If memory serves, it only takes about an inch of airspace for convection currents to set themselves up. This is the same mechanism that some have proposed as the reason that the polystyrene hive bodies are more effective at winter survival even though the R-value of the walls are relatively low. The thinner areas of the walls provide specific sites for condensation to occur where it can safely run off and not drip onto the middle of the cluster. Mike Rossander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:36:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Polystyrene hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Rossander said "This is the same mechanism that some have proposed as the reason that the polystyrene hive bodies are more effective at winter survival even though the R-value of the walls are relatively low. The thinner areas of the walls provide specific sites for condensation to occur where it can safely run off and not drip onto the middle of the cluster." Mike, I spent dozens and perhaps hundreds of hours on the puzzle of why the polystyrene hives do not support/create excess humidity and never learned the reason. The Finns and Swedes I talked to who have a lot of experience with these hives offered only: 1. Maybe their ambient humidity conditions were much drier than our own, so what is a potential problem here is not a problem there. 2. A theory that the handholds provided a condensation point superior to that of the hive top and when condensation formed on the inside opposite the handholds it just ran down the sides and out the hive. The latter sounds something like what you said. But why in Styrofoam and not in wood? Sure, the Styrofoam hives have a much higher R value than wood, but we are talking perhaps R-3 for Styrofoam compared to R-.8 for wood, and R-3 is sure nothing to write home about! Before everyone starts jumping to conclusions...as we all know, snow melts pretty fast on top of a wood cover and based on my personal observations it melts just about as fast on top of a styro cover. So, in both hives there is an environment of a cold top to condense the humidity in the warm (rising) air. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:48:28 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: SCREEN BOTTOM BOARDS IN WINTER Mike Rossander said: > As this list has repeatedly discussed, the real threat in a beehive > is the elimination of excess humidity, not oxygen transport. But the mechanism for moving moisture IS a gas transport problem! If the moisture was liquid, it would only move straight down. > The "traditional" response is to vent the humid air to the outside > of the environment. In the impromptu snow cave the excess humidity > will condense against the snow cavity walls, OK, let's consider this model. We have bee respiration, which is warmer moist air, which tends to rise until it hits something cooler and condenses. I think we can agree that the goal is to get this condensation to happen anywhere except over the cluster. But before we can have a "snow cavity", we have to somehow MAKE the space by melting snow! The gap between hive and "igloo wall" does not exist at first, and, during this period the inner surface of the outer cover becomes the most likely point where the moisture condenses. Yes, gases certainly can make their way through snow, but any vent hole blocked by snow (before melting) is certainly going to result in a backlog of warmer moist air. Where's the excess warm(er) moist(er) air gonna go? I'd say "up". Where it hits the cover, right over the cluster. Not an encouraging scenario, is it? > leaving drier air to recirculate into the beehive. If memory serves, > it only takes about an inch of airspace for convection currents to set > themselves up. While this is an excellent model for the hive AFTER the "snow cavity" airspace is created, how long does it take to create that inch of airspace, and what happens to all the moisture before and during the creation of that airspace? I think the initial scenario is much less than optimal, but I agree that, after an extended period of time spent slowly melting snow, millimeter by millimeter, one does have a much less nasty set-up. But getting to your scenario implies a much worse scenario has to exist first, and for an extended period. But what's the solution here? Periscope vents? Sounds kinda silly. I'm never going to see snow that deep here in VA, so I can't test anything. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:30:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: On the snow In-Reply-To: <001a01c3e746$a3681460$1402a8c0@jjapolDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:35 AM 1/30/2004, you wrote: >1) Are the dead bees on the snow a normal phenomenon? Yes it is fairly normal. I've seen bees make short flights when it's as cold as 16F. Just this past weekend in fact I saw many taking a short flight, It was calm and very sunny, but still a cold 16F. Many made it back as I watched, but not all were as lucky as evident from a few dead in the snow. It's not unusual as they will make sort flights on cold days to evacuate themselves, though I have never seen them do it when it was this cold before. Ousting the mouse without disturbing the cluster might be difficult. If you can't simply do it by sticking something in the entrance I'd wait till it's at least above freezing (and preferably sunny and calm). Then I'd feel safe doing a quick manipulation with help (ie. lifting the whole hive intact onto another bottom board leaving the mouse and the old bottom board). You just can't do major manipulations without chilling the bees/brood. (ie. quickly lifting the cover to put in a pollen patty or food should be ok. I've even installed queens in splits (made on the previous much warmer day) when it was only 32F with good success). -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:49:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Hives Buried in Snow Drifts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Actually, they do. Some years my hives are totally buried by snow. So deep > you need a long handled shovel, handle first, to find them. If you dig the > hives out of the snow you'll see what I mean. There is a chamber formed > around the hive, where there is no snow. Did it melt? I would think so. Yup, that's my experience. In fact many beekeepers actually shovel or blow snow over hives where it is practical, since hives seem to winter better that way than out in the weather, and snow, if it will stay put, is cheap wrapping. The snow cover moderates the temperature swings and eliminates winds. As for humidity, in some regions, humidity can get too low in winter, particularly during cold spells, and cause hardship for the bees. Bees actually maintain fairly high moisture in their clusters when they can, but if that humidity goes above a certain level, or when physical water drips in a hive onto a cluster, they are seriously stressed. Successful wintering is largely a matter of protecting bees from extremes, and a covering of snow would seem to me to moderate extremes in humidity, one way or the other. Moreover, the light intensity is reduced and as a result, fewer beees are inspired to fly out and die in the cold. We used to be worried that hives under hard drifts would suffocate, but have never seen a loss due to hives being covered, even when the snow drifts were hard enough to walk on and even -- sometimes, jump on -- without breaking through. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:32:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: On the snow >>I noticed that there were dead bees in the snow in front of the hive. Quite a few in fact. When I cleaned off the snow that had built up on the landing board, there was a considerable amount of dead bees buried just under the snow there too. A healthy honeybee colony enters winter full of summer and fall bees. It is the fall bee that winters the hive. The summer bees usually dont last a month into winter. They fly out of the hive on days that they can escape the hive. If they cant fly due to a cold snap, they will drop to the bottom board. Old bees rairly die in the hive through out the year, no different during the winter if they can get the chance. Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:41:50 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: On the snow In-Reply-To: <001a01c3e746$a3681460$1402a8c0@jjapolDell> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Jason, >My questions are as follows: > >1) Are the dead bees on the snow a normal phenomenon? They left the hive at >an ambient temperature not above 20 F. None of them made it farther than 8 >feet, the bulk of them within 4 feet of the front of the hive. > I am not sure where you are, but here in Alaska what you describe is perfectly normal. In fact earlier this month we had some warmer weather (around 20 degrees F) and one of my three hives did not exhibit this behavior. I waded through about 2 feet of standing snow to check and sure enough that hive had died. Don't worry about the bees that die in the snow. As far as the feces on the front of the hive, that too is normal when bees must leave the hive at temperatures as you report. I have it every year. >2) Should I try to evict the mouse or let the bees take care of him in the >spring? > Tough one. Depends on your situation. This late in the season I would probably say wait and take your loses. If you can lift the colony off an empty bottom box, you could probably get away with evicting the mouse. Otherwise, prevention in the future will be easier when you see the damage the mouse does. Tom Elliott Chugiak, AK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:14:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: On the snow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To Jason and All, Arheit's call is right on the money. Here in the northern piedmont of North Carolina we have had over a week of very cold weather followed by snow and sleet with highs until yesterday only in the 20's with the same results, bees on cleansing flights dropping in midair due to the cold below freezing temps- sun is warm on the hive fronts. The strongest hives usually have the largest accumulation of deceased bees in front. Also, some house cleaning of dead bees has been done since the temperatures yesterday were in the low 40’s. Usually if the temperature is above 47 degrees Fahrenheit my bees from the strongest hives are bringing in pollen and nectar as several plants are already blooming here. It’s also good to see maiden flights! Regarding the uninvited hive occupant, most likely the mouse has built a large nest, as it likes it nice and cozy and a good safe place to raise her young. In most cases, a mouse nest will be found just above the bottom bars of the lowest frames in the hive, sometimes extending below, and are typically three or four frames across, all connected in a wad of stinky smelly mouse nesting material. Removing this material usually involves taking out all interconnected frames together intact. Then the nest is removed piece-by-piece and sometimes mouse-by-mouse often breaking away damaged comb to free one frame at a time. All this is accomplished external to the hive and should be done in warm enough weather that brood will not be killed due to prolonged exposure. If done on a cold day you will kill bees and brood. The mouse does a whole lot of damage to frames and foundation (chewing and eating) as well as damage to the hive with weeks to months of built up urination and defecation deposits. Since the mouse is not capable of even the most fundamental methods of basic hygiene bottomboards, frames and even hivebodies often have to be replaced and the damaged or soiled parts “cleaned and reworked”. Using entrance reducers in the fall is one of the best ways to discourage hive entry by mice; its not foolproof, but it’s a cheap and simple management tool. Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:11:00 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: phil MOORE Subject: Re: Repair and painting polystyrene hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I need to repair a polystyrene brood body and wonder if anyone has a recommendation of which glue is suitable. Also I will be painting the brood bodies is there a paint that is suitable? Regards Phil Moore :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:53:09 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Elliott Subject: Cold weather manipulations (was "On the snow") In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20040130131723.02ceaf90@pop3.wcoil.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Tim, > You just can't do major manipulations without chilling the > bees/brood. (ie. quickly lifting the cover to put in a pollen patty or > food should be ok. I've even installed queens in splits (made on the > previous much warmer day) when it was only 32F with good success). The dangers of cold weather are greatly exaggerated. I realize that Alaska has a different situation than much of the U.S.A., but much of the northland has similar conditions. When I first began to be successful at wintering bees here in south-central Alaska I did brief examinations of colonies down to 10 degrees F. This was to see if brood rearing had begun (long story but lack of winter brood seems to have been my wintering problem). I only pulled a frame or two to make sure brood rearing had begun, but hives adapted and came through winter strong. This is not to say that cold weather manipulations are desirable, only less catastrophic than often thought. Tom Elliott Chugiak, AK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:36:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: beekeeper Organization: none Subject: Re: Cold weather manipulations (was "On the snow") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom said:" I realize thatAlaska has a different situation than much of the U.S.A." It certainly is Tom. I did a Weather.com search for weather in your area and here in central lower Michigan we have been consistantly 20 to 25 degrees colder than in your area since the end of December. Most days during January we have barely gotten out of the teens! The bees did fly a couple days before Christmas, however! Coleene Tom Elliott Chugiak, AK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:41:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: D Thompson Subject: Hives Buried in Snow Drifts Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Allen said We used to be worried that hives under hard drifts would suffocate, but have never seen a loss due to hives being covered, even when the snow drifts were hard enough to walk on and even -- sometimes, jump on -- without breaking through. Yes BUT If freezing rain comes in late winter hives will suffocate under the ice crust. I lost one that way last winter. (Ihad to dig 1 foot down to find the lid) Probably takes 2-3 days Dave :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:14:20 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Old bee article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Many times I have been asked which article I have read in bee magazines was the most interesting as in winter (like now with temps around zero and over a foot of new snow expected to arrive in the next 48 hours) I read and reread old bee books and magazines. I also run up enormous phone bills talking to beekeepers in other states when I get bored with reading bee books! One article stands out and I believe I will attempt to get Kim to rerun the article in Bee Culture. In the May 1946 issue of "Gleanings in BEE Culture" ( vol 74, no.5 pg. 265) is an article about Alexander De Griaznov of Fresno, California titled " He Does the Impossible". Mr. De Griaznov is blind and ran 700 hives of bees with only a driver & seeing eye dog for help at times. A couple quotes from the article : "From the very beginning of my work in the land of the silvery mist, I was and still am, advised to sell ,to quit, to do something else than my beloved work" At the time the article was written Alexander had been keeping bees blind for seven years. He had increased his hives from around 400 to around 700 hives. Alexander tells of crawling from hive to hive at the start but later using ropes to follow to find the hives. The adjustment to blindness: "Then came a year of adjustment , of torture indescribable, of change from the world of light to the world of shadows." Alexanders reason for the article in his own words: "Not for the sake of publicity or acknowledgement,but with a sincere desire to be useful to those thousands of our youth that came from this war with my handicap, I am writing these lines." I have said many times you can tell quite a bit about a hive from listening and the smell of the hive and the article backs me up: Alexander wrote: "One has to adapt himself to the new conditions , new surroundings, find new ways to judge the hive by lifting,touching,smelling and listening." He tells a method a blind man can locate the queen and of running his finger over the frame to find swarm cells. Way to many things to list from the article in this post. Perhaps a few California beekeepers from the Fresno area which knew Alexander might comment . Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 23:58:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Hives Buried in Snow Drifts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If freezing rain comes in late winter > hives will suffocate under the ice crust. > I lost one that way last winter. I've worried about that, and about having ice storms close entrances of hives that are not buried. It stands to reason that this could happen. Were there more hives on the location, and did any survive, or was there just the one? What did the colony look like when found? Was the cluster tight, or broken, do you recall? allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 07:43:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Hives Buried in Snow Drifts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-426F6B23; boundary="=======614643CC=======" --=======614643CC======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-426F6B23; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I've worried about that, and about having ice storms close entrances of >hives that are not buried. It stands to reason that this could happen. >allen I suppose anything could happen. Having got through that infamous "ice storm of '98," I wouldn't think it likely. We had freezing rain for days. My yards located in northeast New York were in the very worst area of it. Ice build-up was in the 2 - 3" range on trees, power lines, and beehives. "Every" tree, except the apple trees in the orchard, were stripped of their branches. Every power line and phone line was on the ground. Massive electric power line towers...headed to Montreal...crumpled like they were made of clay. Truly an unbelievable event. I still see folks wearing their "I survived the ice storm of '98" tee-shirts. The ice formed just as heavy on beehives. It started on the cover, and flowed down off the telescoping covers, and looked like a frozen waterfall. Quite beautiful...if it wasn't for all the destruction around. Even with all this ice, I could find no colonies that suffered in any way. No frozen entrances, no smothered clusters, no more dysentary than normal. I couldn't even get to my yards for almost 2 weeks, as all the roads were closed. When I did, there was no damage...except a broken cover from a falling tree limb...in any of my 22 yards that were located in the worst of icing conditions. Mike --=======614643CC=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 07:29:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Hives Buried in Snow Drifts In-Reply-To: <004601c3e7c7$a63ed670$2db85ad1@Pegasus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-426F6B23; boundary="=======16532D57=======" --=======16532D57======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-426F6B23; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I've worried about that, and about having ice storms close entrances of >hives that are not buried. It stands to reason that this could happen. >allen I suppose anything could happen. Having got through that infamous "ice storm of '98," I wouldn't think it likely. We had freezing rain for days. My yards located in northeast New York were in the very worst area of it. Ice build-up was in the 2 - 3" range on trees, power lines, and beehives. --=======16532D57=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 04:09:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Graham Law Subject: Beeginners FAQ I have just completed ('complete' as anything ever is on the web :-) a new FAQ aimed at beginner beekeepers that you may find a useful resource to point such people towards. It is UK in flavour in regard to Who's Who and Supliers etc but the meat of the FAQ should be of universal use. Check out: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gandboss/bee_faq.htm Any constructive comments welcome. Best regards Graham Law Leicestershire UK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:40:52 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Vs: [BEE-L] Hives Buried in Snow Drifts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree with Dave that beehives can suffocate to death under snow. My area in Finland is with lots of snow. As I winter my hives with 1 box, my outside hives are totally covered with snow every winter. I only have 2 yards out of 20 in which hives are not sometimes covered. The igloo - effect is a norm. But I have to say suffocation is very rare. I have been hit for sure only once in 20 years in one yard, which I have had for 10 years. That year we had several spells of warm weather. Many 2 - 15 mm thick sheets of ice formed inside the snow. I lost all hives that stood alone in that yard. The snow was about 30cm above the lids when I come to shovel the snow away to let the bees go for the first flight. I have to do this for all the hives every year. That is one reason why I have more and more hives inside for winter. Only two hives survived. These were the only ones that were close each others. They had formed a common igloo. From these two one was normal, and the other one had lost 80 % of its bees. The died colonies had all the bees as a thick layer in the bottom. The frames were perfectly clean. My equipment is polystyrene with net in bottom boards. A friend nearby has wooden equipment, without net and he had bigger losses taht year. This was 5 years ago, and I still use the same yard. But I have decided to go and break the ice in the surface of snow if we get it as bad again. Haven't had this far. We get ice on snow enough to walk on every spring for few weeks. Ari Seppälä :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 03:20:06 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Repair and painting polystyrene hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/30/04 10:22:13 PM GMT Standard Time, phil.moore@HOPESAY.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes: > I need to repair a polystyrene brood body and wonder if anyone has a > recommendation of which glue is suitable. Also I will be painting the brood > bodies is there a paint that is suitable? > It would have been be helpful if you could enlighten me as to what the nature of the damage is. However.... The most common breakage is when the box has been subject to diagonal stress and has cracked across the corners. In this case you just use ordinary PVA wood glue, plenty of it, and leave the box under load for a couple of days till the glue dries. It helps considerably in this case to also nail it. Just two or three four inch nails in the thick material at the corners spanning the crack will suffice. Works fine. You can also dispense with the loading/clamping, and just use the box as soon as the exterior glue is dry. Smaller pieces broken out just need the glueing back into place. Painting is more complex, as people have differing viewpoints on what they want. Some want a non slip surface and use a matt finish or water based paint. Some paints are quite explicit about not being used on polystyrene. Thinners eats polystyrene. However, we use normal exterior gloss (which is one of those said to be unsuitable for poly boxes), and add a *little* thinners, and spray it on (forget the thinners if you are going to brush it on). The effect is very good, and the thinners causes a tiny amount of dissolving of the polystyrene material resulting in a total bond between the paint and the box which will never flake as it has become an integral part of the box. Test a little of the paint you select on the inside surface of a box first, and if all is OK (you will know pretty well instantly if it is not) just go ahead and do it. These boxes need only a sparing coat to prevent algal growth into the material so no need to lay it on thick. Feeders need painting INSIDE as well, to prevent syrup forcing its way between the beads into the material. Hope this all helps Murray :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:18:42 +0100 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Re: Repair and painting polystyrene hives In-Reply-To: <001001c3e77d$f2382580$aac887d9@x7j6t5> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Use a waterproof polyururetan glue (foaming) mostly used for outdpr wood gluing. as paint you can use a water based outdor paint. Hives of this polyester type must be painted for UV protection. Best regards Jorn Johanesson Only Multilingual software for beekeeping on the net. With integrated update facility hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software since 1997 home page = HTTP://apimo.dk e-mail apimo@apimo.dk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 08:09:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Vs: [BEE-L] Hives Buried in Snow Drifts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Only two hives survived. These were the only ones that were close each > others. They had formed a common igloo. Thanks for that. I've always wondered about suffocation losses, and, since we sometimes do not visit remote yards that are snowed in until the snow melts, we really don't always know what happens during the winter. Usually, our hives are not completely buried, but some winters we get more snow or drifting, and hives get buried. As it happens, most commercial beekeepers over here keep four hives on each pallet. The hives are separated by only about 3 inches, and many of us wrap all four hives with one big wrap, so maybe that larger volume 'igloo', together with the added heat generation of the adjacent clusters combines to protect them a bit better from suffocation. Nonetheless, occasionally, almost entire yards are found dead in spring, with no explanation. Of course, there are many possible reasons, including bad bees, pesticides, etc., but in some cases, perhaps suffocation should not be ruled out. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 13:38:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ed Geels Subject: Univited Hive Occupant I'm also a newbie but noticed and bought from Dadant's (less than a buck) a metal entrance reducer which just attaches to the front of the bottom super with three small screws. It provides an exit for the bees but the size of the opening makes it impossible for a mouse to get in. I've even heard of mice chewing wider the small opening in the wooden entrance reducers and still getting in but I'm sure their teeth don't work well on metal. E. Geels (NW Iowa) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:20:05 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Cold weather manipulations (was "On the snow") In-Reply-To: <003301c3e792$448f7680$2b6cead8@cedavidson> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Coleene, >It certainly is Tom. I did a Weather.com search for weather in your area >and here in central lower Michigan we have been consistantly 20 to 25 >degrees colder than in your area since the end of December. Most days >during January we have barely gotten out of the teens! The bees did fly a >couple days before Christmas, however! > This points up a big misunderstanding of Alaskan winters. Here in coastal Alaska we do generally have warmer weather than the northern interior of the lower 48. Cold has never been a big problem in this area, the length of the winter has been much harder to deal with. Interior Alaska does get COLD, but it is not normally serious on the coast. Tom Elliott Chugiak, AK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 13:58:28 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Univited Hive Occupant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I've even heard of > mice chewing wider the small opening in the wooden entrance reducers and > still getting in In my experience, they are often trying to get OUT, after being locked in by a beekeeper coming along and adding a reucer when they are already inside. That fact is a good reason to put the reducers on early, while the bees are still occupying the whole hive and chasing away the mice. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::