From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:46:21 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E870348FEA for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDbKlL012089 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:17 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0402A" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 287791 Lines: 6501 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:08:24 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Uninvited Hive Occupant Despite the best efforts of half a dozen barn cats, we have a population of both voles and field mice here at Farmageddon. I must admit to having heard the telltale scratching of a small rodent more than once, and given that mating season starts in February, I evict them when I find them, rather than waiting until they are picking out wallpaper for a nursery. Can't be cruel to any of God's creatures. This approach has worked every time I've used it, but it can require two people in some cases: 1) Approach hive at dusk. No rodent is dumb enough to try and make a run for it in broad daylight. Remove the entrance reducer. Perform step (4) below with hive in vertical orientation. If no effect, move on to steps (2) and (3). 2) Put ratchet straps around the entire hive, both side- to-side, and front-to-back to keep propolis seals from breaking. Tighten well. 3) Tip the hive forward, holding it by the strap(s) to keep it from falling on its face. The stronger team member should do the holding, the smaller the drumming. 4) Drum on the rear of the bottom hive body with wild abandon. A pair of hive tools make excellent drumsticks. Older beekeepers can try to imitate Buddy Rich, younger ones, Alex Van Halen or Phil Collins. Purists can study the work of Carl Palmer of Emerson, Lake, and Palmer. The rodent gets the message that he/she is unwelcome, and evacuates. The bees don't like it one bit either, but it is likely far too cold for them to complain in person. I now use slightly over-long wooden entrance reducers which must be tapped into place with a hive tool or rubber hammer. (Custom-made from only the choicest pieces of scrap lumber by skilled old-world craftsmen using traditional tools...) I saw at least two of the store-bought "loose" entrance reducers pushed aside in some of these rodent-invasion cases. I dunno if the rodent or some other varmint did the pushing, but I'd rather tap them in place and pull them out with the "hook" end of an "Italian" style hive tool than have them be so easily pushed aside. ...and I've never had any of my hives propolize the entrance reducer, even though most go in when fall honey is pulled. Dunno why. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:25:50 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Vs: Re: [BEE-L] Repair and painting polystyrene hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jorn Johanesson wrote about polystyrene hives 'Hives of this polyester type must be painted for UV protection.' Well that's what most people say. But last year I come by a beekeeper who does not paint. And looks like it works. UV radiation turns the surface yellow and softer, but it only affects 1 - 2 mm deep. Boxes that were 5 years old had not more damage than the ones that were 2 years old. As far as I could say there is no need. The beekeepers says that the light yellow colour is fine for him, and painting is too much work and money for the paint. I would like to hear other experience from people who really have old unpainted boxes. For the interested ones I recommend to leave one box without paint next spring, and see what happens on the next 5 years. I would stop painting mine, but I have to take lots of pictures for our magazine, and coloured ones look nicer. Also my wife has more eye for beauty. She demanded the painting, as she works with bees too. Wise men obey ... :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 08:18:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Uninvited Hive Occupant In-Reply-To: <036501c3e879$09a7bae0$7604c518@gollum> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4C64148; boundary="=======26301659=======" --=======26301659======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4C64148; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I now use slightly over-long wooden entrance reducers which >must be tapped into place with a hive tool or rubber hammer. > >I saw at least two of the store-bought "loose" entrance >reducers pushed aside in some of these rodent-invasion cases. Skunks and raccoons will pull loose fitting wooden entrance reducers out with their claws., and mice will enlarge the entrance with their teeth. I prefer to use a 1/2" hardware cloth wedge. The springyness of the wire holds it in firmly...no hammer needed. I think the screen better than "reducers." The colony stays drier. In the spring, the bees can clean out the dead bees on the bottom board much more easily...witness the bottom board debris. Dead bees piled up with reducers, nearly absent with screens. Mike --=======26301659=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:05:47 +0100 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Re: Vs: Re: [BEE-L] Repair and painting polystyrene hives In-Reply-To: <000001c3e891$e3b815a0$fa24d5d4@pomi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Subject: [BEE-L] Vs: Re: [BEE-L] Repair and painting polystyrene hives > > > 'Hives of this polyester > type must be painted for UV protection.' > > Well that's what most people say. But last year I come by a > beekeeper who does not paint. And looks like it works. UV > radiation turns the surface yellow My hives are original white polystyrene hives now more than thirty years old. I painted those with a thin layer of green water based house painting when I bought those,and have never painted since, but for some reason I forgot two supers, and I never got to paint those. So they are still in use unpainted. I just took a look at those unpainted boxes, and I must admit that they still can be used as part of a hive, even the surface is not that smooth any longer. The surface now looks like if you have a rough broken polystyrene plate. I think that those boxes will follow me unpainted throuh the rest of my beekeeping life but I do not think I can sell those. Best regards Jorn Johanesson Only Multilingual software for beekeeping on the net. With integrated update facility hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software since 1997 now version 7.0.1.4 home page = HTTP://apimo.dk e-mail apimo@apimo.dk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 09:54:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: Uninvited Hive Occupant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use a hand propane self lighting torch. The torch will burn clean everything without contaminating the hives protective system of Propolis. I may kill a few bees which do not set the hive into defense mode. I can clean out corners better than I can see of virus, fungus, mites, wax worms, spider and webs, mice and their waste odor, and cleaning the screen at the bottom is easy. Michael Housel Orlandobee :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:45:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: polystyrene boxes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Phil asked about repair and painting. It REALLY REALLY irritates me that the dealers are not informing beekeepers of how important maintenance is to the polystyrene equipment! More important than for wood! Paint with any good latex. Three coats is best, but two are required. If using the feeders, which are excellent, paint the inside as well as the outside. For brood and supers, just the outside is good enough. Repair with any good resin glue, before painting if possible. The best repair is to use both the resin glue and the gummy strips that are sold to repair wallboard. Then paint. Use the strips on both the inside and the outside of the piece being repaired. The glues are non-toxic to bees. Good luck, Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:04:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: walter weller Subject: Bee-Max Polyethelene hive parts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can Bee-Max PE hive-top feeders be used with standard wooden hive boxes? = My home-made wooden feeders all leak within a year or so (handling? = temperature/humidity changes?). Lloyd Spear says the PE feeders are = great, so I'm tempted to buy a few and try them out. I expect I'll have to build or buy new hive covers if I get the feeders, = right? Walter Weller :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 16:15:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Bee-Max Polyethelene hive parts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Walter Weller asked, "Can Bee-Max PE hive-top feeders be used with standard wooden hive boxes?". The bee max feeders fit standard Langstroth hives. They are "small" on the Bee-Max poly-styrene equipment, by design. The fit exactly standard wooden ware, and an inner/outer cover fits the Bee-Max feeder as if it were designed to do so (but actually it's the feeder that is designed to accept "standard" inner/outer covers. It this chicken/egg puzzle, the inner/outer covers came first. Yes Walter, try a few. Price issues aside, they can't be beat! Aaron Morris - thinking try 'em, you'll like 'em! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 16:08:48 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Hack Subject: Re: Bee-Max Polyethylene hive parts In-Reply-To: <5AF61A7A68D97645B968E3F6F7D069A1090D26EE@email.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All of my miller feeders leaked when I bought them. I run a bead of cheap acrylic chalking on the inside seams. Spread the bead with my finger. Cured them for a few days in the sun. Those that the bottom had completely delaminated, I run a bead of chalking, dropped in a piece of corrugated plastic (from scraps I had left over). Run another bead, spread the bead and cured them. Took only a few minutes. None leak after 3 years. And that's done over the original wax coating. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:31:06 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: cell size in 1940's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Many of our past debates on *past* cell size ended up with the simple statement which was put in most beekeeping publications of the time. Four cells to the inch for drone brood and five cells to the inch for worker brood. After countless posts on BEE-L we finnaly decided that the best of our estimates for cell size in foundation made in the time of Roy Grout could be off by a mm.or possibly two either way. Today I have been going through old bee magazines In doing so I found an add run by Dadant company in 1948. The slogan: "In heat or cold the crimps will hold" (meaning the new crimp wired foundation) Also in the ad was the following: "Ten inches of poor comb costs you fourteen thousand bees" THEN THE PART MANY INTERESTED IN PAST CELL SIZE ON BEE-L WILL FIND INTERESTING: quote from 1948 Dadant advertisement for crimp wire foundation: "With *twenty-three* worker cells to the *square inch* and six brood cycles a year, ten square inches of poor comb may reduce the worker bee and harvest count by fourteen hundred bees. A single comb with this much lost brood area ,used ten years -costs you fourteen thousand bees(April 1948 ad Dadant ). Up until now none of us knew exactly which way Dadant measured back then so we could determine the cell size which was sold by Dadant in Roy A. Grout's time. Can one of our math people figure the mm. cell size for the above "twenty three cells to the square inch" and post the mm worker cell size sold by Dadant in 1948 for the list? Using the common scale of five cells to the inch published in The Hive and The Honey Bee and Abc & XYZ of the period we quickly see "five cells to the inch" would produce 25 worker cells to the square inch and not "23 cells to the square inch". Was the first change to larger cell size done with the advent of crimp wire coundation? Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 20:48:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: D Thompson Subject: Wire Brush Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Now that its nice and cold its time to wire brush your blackest combs (don't do this to a yellow comb, all that will be left is the wood) The colder the better, 0 F (-18C) or it is too 'sticky' Why would you do this? I'm glad you asked. 1) Much easier to uncap (next year) 2) Quite 'pretty' 2 tone appearance 3) Removes more than 1/2 chemical contamination My reasons are 1&2. Since the bees find it quite hard to redraw these, only give them 1 unless its a really strong hive. For the same reason only do this to B+ or better combs (in all respects) Typically I only do this to 1/3 possible candidates As to black combs being 'bad' for bees I generally do not agree They are much stronger. Dave :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 19:45:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: D Thompson Subject: Hves Buried in Snow Drifts Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Allen said Were there more hives on the location, and did any survive, or was there just the one? What did the colony look like when found? Was the cluster tight, or broken, do you recall? The one beside went queenless that fall (and died) That location was just over the crest of a hill, further down the hill had normal snow cover. The cluster was loose and large This hive was completly buried, not at all visable Mike said The ice formed just as heavy on beehives. It started on the cover, and flowed down off the telescoping covers, and looked like a frozen waterfall. Well if you can see the cover and had a top entrance I would not expect there to be a problem with ventilation I wish people would add at appropriate places in all email's ( with Kmail its easiest to view source, run on lines are annoying) Dave :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 21:05:59 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: cell size in 1940's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > quote from 1948 Dadant advertisement for crimp wire foundation: > "With *twenty-three* worker cells to the *square inch* Visit http://www.honeybeeworld.com/misc/cellcount.htm to make comparisons if you like, but I can only conclude that the ad writer made the common error of measuring the number of cells in an inch horizontally, then squaring that number to get cells per square inch. As we all know by now, that is incorrect, and based on the assumption that a cell is the same in height overall, as in width. It is not. The number of cells in an inch, measured vertically, is different from the number of cells in an inch measured horizontally. The page mentioned above goes through the logic and explains some of the fallacies and misinterretations that have made this simple matter a source of endless confusion. Interestingly, conversions from linear measurements to area measurements, then back, seem to have resulted in some serious misunderstandings in the past and even today. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that the cells being examined by the writer were 5.3mm, since on the chart, 5.3mm corresponds to 4.79 cells per linear inch horizontally. If you square 4.79, you get 22.9. That is essentially the number 23. Otherwise 23 corresponds to 5.7mm on the lookup chart, and although Dadant tended to make everything a bit bigger than Root, 5.7mm is *much* bigger than any US comb I have heard about, but is a size made by Thorne to this day AFAIK. I wonder if Thorne made a conversion error. Such large cells in brood comb, might even explain some of unique difficulties experienced by UK beekeepers. We found 5.25 noticably outperformed even 5.3 in a controlled, but unpublished experiment. I'm looking forward to other interpretations. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:22:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: cell size in 1940's Comments: To: Bob Harrison On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:31:06 -0600, Bob Harrison first discusses: "...Using the common scale of five cells to the inch published in The Hive and The Honey Bee and Abc & XYZ of the period we quickly see "five cells to the inch" would produce 25 worker cells to the square inch and not "23 cells to the square inch". And then asks: Was the first change to larger cell size done with the advent of crimp wire foundation?" Bob, I give the following for your perusal: The 30Th Edition of ABCandXYZ of Bee Culture(Root,1953)gives considerable discussion to cell size, given here extremely condensed, copied and paraphrased from the subject heading "CELLS, SIZE OF IN HONEYCOMB": 1876 A.I. Root's first roll comb foundation worker cell 5 to the inch. A. I. discovered that this was too small after observations and measurements and H. H. Root used his father's measurements, 1`9 and 1/3 cells to 4 linear inches (4.83 cells to the inch), in development of a new foundation mill, no date given; however the 30TH Edition mentions that this measurement was the standard for the last 70 years hence circa 1883. Also mentioned was the metric values of 825 to 850 to the square decimeter and a reference to the 1937 Bee World page 43,"Schwammerdam puts the size of natural worker comb as 870 per square decimeter; Maraldi, 789 and 954; Reaumur, 832; Klugel, 832; Castellon, 763, 828." Ursmar Baudoux in 1893 conceived the idea that cells larger than 850 would or could develop correspondingly larger bees with a longer tongue reach. He began testing foundation by stretching from 750, 740, 730, to as low as 700 cells to the square decimeter. By 1896 he apparently proved his theory so that a comb manufacturer (not named) built a mill with enlarged cell bases. Baudoux apparently also developed the first "Super Bee", larger and with a longer tongue reach. He gave an elaborate set of figures of cell sizes with corresponding sizes of the workersalong with wing and tongue sizes in the 1934 Bee World; the table was also given in the 30TH Edition. The same subject, "CELLS, SIZE OF IN HONEYCOMB", also mentioned work under the direction of Dr. O. W. Park of Iowa State College by a Research Assistant, Roy A. Grout, in 1930 which was published in Research Bulletin No. 218 of Iowa Agricultural Experimental Station. A sumary of the summary given follows: "We cannot agree with Baudoux either in the magnitude of the results he obtained or the consistency of them"; that size of the brood cell alone is not sufficient to produce a much larger worker bee; and while the worker bees apparently recognized no difference in constructing the three sides of cell, the queen bees showed a preference for the normal-sized cells. Additional language is given to discussion of further works of A. I. Root, H. H. Root and M. T. Pritchard. The subject was given conclusion by the following paragraph: " All of this goes to prove the previous contention that a change in the size of the cell, either worker or drone, results either in the queen avoiding these cells if she can get standard cells, or worse yet depositing drone eggs in such cells, resulting in an unnecessary amount of drone brood." Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC PS. Have you ordered drone brood as a small part of integrated pest management and/or flooding your mating yards with selected drones? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:13:56 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: cell size in 1940's Comments: To: Chuck Norton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Chuck & All, Thanks to Chuck for taking the time to look up past cell history for the list and the archives! Chuck also asks: Have you ordered drone brood as a small part of integrated pest management and/or flooding your mating yards with selected drones? Removing drone brood was always too labor intensive for me but I am trying to find frames of deep Dadant drawn drone comb to buy from those in our area which had bought the drone comb and had the comb drawn but later gave up on the IPM method. I need about 30-40 frames earlier this year than I can get good drone foundation drawn (on a honey flow) for a drone flooding project. Enough people in our club have tried and gave up on the drone comb removal method I might be able to get the comb I need however if a BEE-L member has extra deep drawn comb of Dadant drone foundation they want to sell (30 to 40 frames) email me direct. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 18:58:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ronnie Subject: Re: Repair and painting polystyrene hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit throw it away and get another.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "phil MOORE" To: Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Repair and painting polystyrene hives > I need to repair a polystyrene brood body and wonder if anyone has a > recommendation of which glue is suitable. Also I will be painting the brood > bodies is there a paint that is suitable? > > Regards Phil Moore > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 12:53:12 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: cell size in 1940's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Allen & all > 5.7mm is *much* bigger than any US comb I have heard about, > but is a size made by Thorne to this day AFAIK. > I wonder if Thorne made a conversion error. The 5.7 mm foundation was originally made as 'honey storage' size cells using an extra set of rollers. Worker sized foundation was also made and as far as I know it was 5.3 mm. I have been told, by a 'saw doctor' that the worker sized rollers were damaged due to a wide bandsaw blade falling in the machine. The Saw Doctor remembered the occasion quite vividly and showed me some scars on the back of his legs caused by the freshly cut teeth of the blade as it fell. The adoption of the 5.7 mm size for worker foundation was mainly due to the influence (read 'pressure from') a friend of mine, Beowulf Cooper, who was pursuing large sized bees by using a 5.9 mm sized foundation. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 08:06:37 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: cell size in 1940's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Removing drone brood was always too labor intensive for me but I am trying > to find frames of deep Dadant drawn drone comb... I don't recommend the drone removal method for number of reasons, but a simple way to do drone removal is to place one or two drawn medium depth worker combs into a standard brood chamber in drone season. In a strong colony, the bees invariably build very neat drone comb extensions on the bottom bar of such frames and fill them 100% with drone brood. Usually, they will not attach them on bottom and sides, so the frame will pull right out without problems, just like any other frame. It is then a very quick and simple matter to slice off the drone comb and replace the frame to repeat the process. If one or two are left in over winter, little harm will be done. In weaker colonies, like nucs, worker brood might be their choice, so this trick cannot be counted on to work as well in such hives. I think I should mention, however, that Seeley showed, and we all know, that placing full drone combs into the middle of a brood chamber, even in off-centre locations, will diminish crops significantly. We discussed Seeley's results here previously and there should be something in the archives. The abstarct of the original Seeley paper is at http://www.edpsciences.org/articles/apido/abs/2002/01/Seeley/Seeley.html (that used to be the URL of the entire paper, I thought) and I discuss it a bit further at http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/fdnvsdrawn.htm (3/4 of the way down). allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:15:15 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Sugar in honey - prosecution and fine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Extract from Canadian Food Inspection Agency: Beekeeper fined $6,000 for selling honey containing foreign sugar Markos Héliotis, an Ontario beekeeper operating under the name J & M Héliotis Apiaries, pleaded guilty to selling honey containing sugar foreign to natural honey. During an inspection, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency discovered that the honey contained sugar from sugar cane and from corn. The beekeeper thereby contravened the composition standards of the Food and Drug Regulations and subsection 5(1) of the Food and Drug Act, by creating a false impression regarding the character and composition of the product. See: http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/corpaffr/projud/2004/20040128be.shtml http://www.inspection.gc.ca/francais/corpaffr/projud/2004/20040128bf.shtml Yahoo! Mail - Votre e-mail personnel et gratuit qui vous suit partout ! Créez votre adresse sur http://mail.yahoo.fr :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:39:33 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: drone comb (was cell size in 1940's) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Allen & All, Allen said: I think I should mention, however, that Seeley showed, and we all know, that placing full drone combs into the middle of a brood chamber, even in off-centre locations, will diminish crops significantly. Putting up to three full drone comb in drone raising colonies as suggested by Larry Conner in his series of articles in Bee Culture last year is what Chuck and I are getting at. I believe my friend Chuck Norton is wanting to get a discussion going concerning last years series of articles on drone importance by Larry Conner. Having read all the articles several times and I believe I understand the things Larry has written I also realize that I am not on the level of knowledge Larry is. I do see a couple problems with his methods but would hate to air my critic without Larry to defend himself and show me the error of my ways. I have attended several of Larry's talks and actually dug through a couple hives with Larry at a Kansas Bee meeting once. I always do listening rather than talking when Larry is around! Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:36:54 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: cell size studies in 1950's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, In the fifties researchers turned to using weight of the worker bee to determine the effect cell size had on the worker bee. A few of the most noted researchers were: Bucher,R. 1955, Kulzhinskaya, K.P. 1956, Volosevich, A.P. 1957, Glushkov,N.N. 1958, Fyg, W. 1959, Alles,P. 1961, Schulz, L.E. 1961 and Wulfrath, A. and H.J. Speck 1961. For the list and the archives i will give highpoints of ten years of their research on the subject: Bucher found in 1955 that an old comb from which 68 generations had emerged , the mean weight of the emerging bees was 91.6 mg., while the controls were 118.3 mg. with about 22 percent reduction in bee weight ( or reduction in size). Volosevich & Kulzinskaya ( 1957) said that larva reared in cells 6 mm. received 21 percent more food than those larva reared in normal cells (5.37mm.). Both concluded the figure 5.37 mm. to be the size of normal cells. Studies (with controls) by Kulzhinskaya (1956) and Glushkov (1958) found independently ,that bees reared in colonies with enlarged cell size were heavier and larger , and the colonies with the larger cells produced more honey than those colonies having normal cells ( 5.37 mm.) Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 12:01:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: drone comb (was cell size in 1940's) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I believe my friend Chuck Norton is wanting to get a discussion going > concerning last years series of articles on drone importance by Larry > Conner. I haven't read that article, but I do agree that drones are often overlooked and that they are under a lot of pressure, since their vigour is affected by both varroa, and by the 'cures' -- fluvalinate and coumaphos. many opine that that many, if not most, premature queen failures can be traced back to inadequate numbers -- or quality -- of drones, so drones are a good investment if you are raising queens, and it takes a lot of drones per queen to ensure good success. Adding drone comb to desirable hives will diminish the chances of mating with random poorer stock from the neighbourhood, as well. One thing I have wondered about in relation to attempts at breeding for varroa tolerance is that, since drones are only raised in numbers in colonies that are strong and well-fed (ignoring drone layer queens), and since drones are most susceptible to varroa effects, open mating with random drones should give natural advantage to strains that are more robust in withstanding mites and chemicals. Plugging human-selected hives fll of drone comb works against that natural selection for fitness, but then, so does much of our artificial selection. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 14:44:54 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: drone comb (was cell size in 1940's) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen said: I haven't read that article, but I do agree that drones are often overlooked and that they are under a lot of pressure, since their vigour is affected by both varroa, and by the 'cures' -- fluvalinate and coumaphos. The series of articles I refer to by Larry Conner have been in Bee Culture over the last nine months. My favorite is the first article: May 2003 (vol.131 no. 5) "The Drone" June 2003 (vol.131 no.6) "Drones in Action" July 2003 (vol.131 no.7) "How Many Drones" Nov.2003 (vol. 131 no. 11) "How Many Drone Colonies do you Need?" Dec. 2003 (vol. 131 no. 12) "Drone Feeding and Holding Colonies" Jan. 2003 (vol.131 no.1) Stimulating Drone Development During Winter in Florida" Dig around under the stack of papers in your office and find your copies of Bee Culture and read those articles Allen! Time well spent! Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:03:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Anna Browder Subject: Re: drone comb (was cell size in 1940's) In-Reply-To: <010601c3e9be$f04508e0$71b85ad1@Pegasus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I am a relative novice at beekeeping. I do not want to use chemicals at all if possible, and therefore am interested in IPM. I have a screened bottom board on my only hive. I have deep brood supers and shallow honey supers. My question is, can I use a shallow foundation frame in a deep super for drone cell building, so that I can destroy possibly varoa infested drone larvae? -- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 17:31:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Drone control for Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anna asked about using a shallow frame in a deep to create drone cells. Sure, it is almost certain to work. But why bother? It will be very hard to handle and freeze without having it collapse. Dadant and Betterbee both sell drone foundation that will fit in a deep frame just fine. Then you have the wood to protect it. As Allen said, producing drones will reduce honey consumption. But for hobbyists...so what? Calderone is about to publish a paper pointing out how extremely effective freezing drone brood is when it is part of an IPM program. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:05:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: beekeeper Organization: none Subject: Re: Drone control for Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just thought I would mention it again, if you feed birds, drone brood attracts woodpeckers like crazy. They clean out the cells so the bees don't have to. I have put drone brood from burr comb in the mesh suit feeders and they are cleaned out very quickly and the comb is not damaged. Coleene :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 18:00:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Drone control for Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Lloyd Spear wrote, "producing drones will reduce honey consumption." That should be honey "production"! For a number of reasons. First, a hive that is raising a lot of drones is not raising as many workers, hence the hive will produce less honey. Another reason is the hive that has a lot of drones will be fueling a lot of drones. The drones don't produce anything, but they consume a lot! It takes a lot of fuel (honey) to keep those drones on the wing! Now, if the drones are culled to combat varroa then the workers won't have to fuel the drones to keep them on the wing, but the more deprived a hive is of drones the more that hive will be in want of drones, and will devote more and more resources to raise them! This is not to advise for or against drone culling for varroa control, it's just pointing out that there is a price that will be paid. A hive totally deprived of a drone population will be demoralized. Again, timing is everything, I'm referring to times when hives want drones for queen mating as opposed to drone eviction time at the end of the season. These musings are based on a presentation by Dr. Thomas Seeley, "Drones, Good for the Bees or Good for the Beekeeper?" Aaron Morris - thinking there's more to drones than meets the eye! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:01:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Suzannne Geisler Subject: Ohio Bee School! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm very excited because I have just mailed my registration for my first = bee school. I am wondering if I will have a chance to register my hive = there. I inherited my first hive at the end of last summer so I didn't = get around to registering it.=20 Are all hives in the US registered or does that differ from state to = state? What is the purpose of registering a hive? What happens if I = harbor an unregistered hive?=20 Looking forward to spring! Suzanne Geisler Springboro, OH :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:57:33 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: cell size in 1940's In-Reply-To: <200402020522.i124FIId000408@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200402020522.i124FIId000408@listserv.albany.edu>, Chuck Norton writes >Baudoux apparently also developed the first "Super Bee", larger and with a >longer tongue reach. He gave an elaborate set of figures of cell sizes >with corresponding sizes of the workersalong with wing and tongue sizes in >the 1934 Bee World; the table was also given in the 30TH Edition. and >Dr. O. W. Park of Iowa State College said >"We cannot agree with Baudoux either in the magnitude of >the results he obtained or the consistency of them"; that size of the >brood cell alone is not sufficient to produce a much larger worker bee; I wonder if we have here the standard problem in comparing results of different races of bees, A.m.m. is more responsive to cell size changes that other races. Did Baudoux do his work in France? -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 20:55:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: cell size in 1940's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit James asks: Did Baudoux do his work in France? A web search on MSN reveals three URL’s of which two, (1) http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/abjgrout1936.htm , and (2) http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/bwapr1933.htm are of interest to this thread: (1) An Article published in 1936 by Roy A. Grout previously mentioned (see: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0402a&L=bee- l&D=1&O=D&P=1457), rewritten from journal paper of the Iowa Agricultural Experiment Station. Ames. Iowa. Project No. 129 of which the following introductory statement is given “The late Monsieur Ursmar Baudoux of Belgium was the first to conceive of the use of an artificial foundation having an enlarged cell base to increase the size of the emerging bee. In the year 1893 he was amazed on discovering bees from an old skep which were very much smaller than normal.” (2) Photos of Baudoux in an apiary and most likely the complete text of the Bee World 1933 article which was written by Baudoux: THE INFLUENCE OF CELL SIZE. By Prof. U. BAUDOUX, Rucher-ecole experimental de Tervueren-lez- Bruxelles. Belgium. Regards, Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:01:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Propolis - junk or valued material In-Reply-To: <010601c3e9be$f04508e0$71b85ad1@Pegasus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Whilst conversing with a local beekeeper recently, he commented on the fact that he was going to have to bring back several lots of propolis. It was delivered with the aim of it being sold to a third person. The material was obtained from frame scraping and super cleaning. 50 kg. collected this winter, the same last year. The intermediate stating that he could not find a market for the propolis. So, is this type of material of any value - or just sticky rubbish? So often, comments relating to propolis are heard suggesting the ease of sale, relative rarity value, use in medical, para medical industries etc. Then, like the proverbial pot of gold at the end of the rainbow - when all is in the sack, ready and waiting for delivery - NO TAKERS. Is this the experience of others? Please note - the material is clean propolis, but not pure from dedicated grids. All the best from a Manitoba that is starting to warm up from last weeks low of -40°C - today reaching -24° C Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 02:18:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Sharon Labchuk Subject: crystallized honey In-Reply-To: <200402030500.i130lhff000397@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Last year I had a super of crystallized honey that I scratched open and gave to my four hives. I just gave them a frame here and a frame there, as I added supers throughout the spring and summer. I really didn't know what they would do with it but I thought perhaps they might re-liquifiy the honey. Now I think it was probably a mistake to do this. I usually don't get around to extracting until Christmas and have never had a problem with crystallized honey in the frames. But this year about three-quarters of the frames contained crystallized honey. Possibly the crystallized honey I gave them was dispersed throughout the supers and caused the rest to crystallize? My question are: 1. What do bees do with crystallized honey when it's given to them as I did? 2. What can I do with the crystallized honey I have - about 7 or 8 medium supers? I scratched most of it open and it's now stored in a porch at below freezing temp. 3. What's the procedure for getting the honey out of the frames for mead? I've heard about immersing open frames in buckets of water. How many pounds of honey would be in a medium frame? Sharon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:12:26 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: cell size in 1940's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Allen said... > I think I should mention, however, that Seeley showed, and we all know, that > placing full drone combs into the middle of a brood chamber, even in > off-centre locations, will diminish crops significantly Using whole frames of drone foundation in the brood nest can disrupt the nest significantly, the bees never do this themselves so why should a beekeeper attempt it? If you wish to encourage early drones for breeding you can prepare some frames the previous season, by splicing triangular pieces of drone foundation into the upper corners of part drawn frames so that they are drawn and ready as the nest expands the following season. I have played about with full frames of drone foundation myself, but they are never as successful as frames that have patches (which is how the bees do it). Raising drones for drone sacrifice/varroa management using shallow frames in deep boxes is not too punitive in terms of lost resources, because the extra drone raising stimulates extra foraging and is largly compensatory. However I should say my experiance here is in colonies dedicated to drone raising rather than honey production. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 18:07:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Vs: [BEE-L] Hives Buried in Snow Drifts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A friend pointed out this site, which deals with a number of questions we have been discussing. http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/gilmar/wintering_singles.html I've never had luck wintering singles outside unless they were raised off the ground, but we never can count on snow cover here. allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 18:10:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Economic Injury Level for Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Economic Injury Level for Varroa on the Canadian Prairies http://www.capabees.ca/eil.htm allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:09:43 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aula apicola Subject: Re: IV INTERNATIONAL APICULTURE PHOTOGRAPHY CONTEST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In order to avoid any doubt or susceptibility, any information about data bank, has been canceled in the rules of the IV International Apiculture Photography Contest as you can see in our web Thanks and best regards http://www.aulaapicolazuqueca.com/ Agustín Arias Martínez Coordinador Aula Apícola Municipal Concejalía del Medio Ambiente Azuqueca de Henares- Guadalajara España aulaapicola@jet.es ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Elliott" To: Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] IV INTERNATIONAL APICULTURE PHOTOGRAPHY CONTEST > Mike, > > Any e-mail that asks for bank information is a scam. > > Tom Elliott > Chugiak, AK > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 05:00:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Ohio Bee School! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Suzanne said: I'm very excited because I have just mailed my registration for my first bee school. Beekeeping can be a very enjoyable hobby (if you do not mind the occasional sting). Mentors are a big help but if not available then the bee school is the next best way to learn. Joining your local bee club is another way to learn and make new beekeeping friends. A world of beekeeping information is available on the net. Most of the information is sound except in a few areas of *home remidies* for bee problems in my opinion. Suzanne asks: I am wondering if I will have a chance to register my hive there. I inherited my first hive at the end of last summer so I didn't get around to registering it. I do not know if Ohio has a hive registration but sure others on the list will know. Suzanne asks: Are all hives in the US registered or does that differ from state to state? Differs from state to state. What is the purpose of registering a hive? So the state can keep track of the hives and do inspections if a problem arrises. A small fee per hive is charged the hive owner in a few states like Florida & Nebraska. . A federal registration has never been talked about to my knowledge. What happens if I harbor an unregistered hive? I doubt you have to worry about your front door being kicked in and you hauled off to jail by U.S. Marshals but If Ohio has a registration policy I would register your hive. The people teaching the bee school should be able to tell you. Good luck with your new hobby! Sincerely, Bob Harrison Missouri Concerning Missouri rules: The larger beekeeper which sends hives out of state in Missouri needs an inspection. We had to get an inspection paper last year saying our hives were free of fire ants to enter California. The hives were inspected on arrival in California and also when they returned to Missouri before they were allowed to be moved from the holding area. Every hive was looked into on the return and a fee was charged by the Missouri inspection service. All states which are considered major beekeeping states have got an inspection service such as California, Texas & Florida. Many minor beekeeping states such as Missouri have only got a single person Apiary department which hires qualified beekeepers to do inspections in areas of the state if needed. We can not sign our own inspection slip! A few other states such as Arizona have no apiary inspection department at all. Hives are not (at this time) registered nor are locations in Missouri. However the Missouri state inspection service wants to know the location and number of hives treated under a section 18. Many beekeepers with a few hives do not comply but all of the rest of us do to my knowledge. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:16:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Ohio Bee School! Comments: cc: suziegeisler@EARTHLINK.NET In-Reply-To: <001101c3e9e8$d460e430$a1bfdf18@carlgeis> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:01 PM 2/2/2004, you wrote: >Are all hives in the US registered or does that differ from state to >state? What is the purpose of registering a hive? What happens if I harbor >an unregistered hive? It does vary state to state. In Ohio you register each apiary. It's done though the department of agriculture and the cost is $5 per apiary per year regardless of how many hives you may have at that apiary. They have a website and even have the registration form online now. See: http://www.ohioagriculture.gov/pubs/divs/plnt/curr/ap/plnt-ap-index.stm http://www.ohioagriculture.gov/pubs/divs/plnt/frms/ap/4201-002.stm Depending on what county you are in you may have a county bee inspector who will inspect your hive for disease. (of course only if registered) It can be a good tool for especially for new beekeepers. Unfortunately since it is up to each county to hire an inspector, some have decided to cut it from their budget. And while there are two state inspectors, they don't really have the time to inspect every hive in all those counties in addition to their normal duties. Failure to register appears to be a fourth degree misdemeanor by the Ohio revised code. -Tim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:14:19 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: drone rearing colonies (wascell size in 1940's) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Dave & All, Using whole frames of drone foundation in the brood nest can disrupt the nest significantly, the bees never do this themselves so why should a beekeeper attempt it? Placing three drawn drone comb in the brood nest is what Larry Conner suggests in his series of articles for the drone rearing colony and removing and replacing as needed.so the queen always has room to lay drones. And to agree with Dave I never put drone comb in the brood nest of my production hives. Finding drone comb in the brood nest was one way we found an amount of brood comb had been switched in some hives in California last year in hives with unbranded frames. Dave said: If you wish to encourage early drones for breeding you can prepare some frames the previous season, by splicing triangular pieces of drone foundation into the upper corners of part drawn frames so that they are drawn and ready as the nest expands the following season. The reason for the full comb is so you can remove the drone comb easily. My guess is that if you do not put the drone comb in the path of the queen and instead at the edge of the nest she will be less inclined to lay in the cells. Dave said; However I should say my experiance here is in colonies dedicated to drone raising rather than honey production How do you set up a drone rearing colony which has no other purpose but to produce large amounts of drones? Bob :::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:30:15 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Denis Brothers Subject: Fossils X 3: Insects, Other Arthropods and Amber - Congress 2005 Comments: To: TAXACOM@LISTSERV.NHM.KU.EDU, entomo-l@listserv.uoguelph.ca, parahym@nhm.ac.uk, Roysoc@psipsy.uct.ac.za, reg@royensoc.co.uk, BIG-L@ru.ac.za, biolsyst@ruhr-uni-bochum.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fossils X 3: Insects, Other Arthropods and Amber 3RD INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS OF PALAEOENTOMOLOGY with 2ND INTERNATIONAL MEETING ON PALAEOARTHROPODOLOGY and 2ND WORLD CONGRESS ON AMBER AND ITS INCLUSIONS Hammanskraal, South Africa 7th to 11th February 2005 Announcement The International Palaeoentomological Society invites you to participate in the above scientific conference which will be held on the rural Hammanskraal campus of the University of Pretoria, South Africa. We intend to provide a forum for the dynamic exchange of information and ideas relevant to those interested in fossil insects and other arthropods, and in amber. Your input is required to make this a success, and suggestions for symposia, special sessions and/or keynote speakers will be particularly welcomed. The venue is self-contained and fully catered, with very affordable overnight accommodation for up to 175 people, and has games facilities, including a swimming pool. One-day excursions to sites of wildlife and/or palaeontological interest, as well as pre- and/or post-conference tours will be available. Please supply the details below, by mail, fax or e-mail, if you are interested in receiving the First Circular which will give further information. Return completed form (below), preferably by e-mail, to: Prof. D.J. Brothers School of Botany & Zoology University of KwaZulu-Natal Private Bag X01 Scottsville 3209 SOUTH AFRICA fax: +27 33 260 5105 e-mail: brothers@ukzn.ac.za Please send me the First Circular when available. Name: Postal Address: e-mail address: Fax: Telephone: I would like to suggest the following symposium/theme and possible coordinator: I would like to suggest the following keynote speaker and topic: I will probably present a paper or poster on the following topic: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Please find our disclaimer at http://www.disclaimer.nu.ac.za -------------------------------------------------------------------- <<<>>> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:28:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: drone comb (was cell size in 1940's) Anna asks "My question is, can I use a shallow foundation frame in a deep super for drone cell building, so that I can destroy possibly varoa infested drone larvae?" If you put in a shallow super of any size cell into the bottom brood chamber, they almost always use the underside of that frame to produce drone cells and they fill them up right away. Whether or not that will be enough space to satisfy the bee's need to produce drones or not is another story. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:48:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: State Apiary Registrations In-Reply-To: <001301c3ea60$049772a0$63ac58d8@BusyBeeAcres> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'd be interested in how many states still have a state apiary registration program. Montana has a long-standing program and requires registration of all apiaries, which are termed commercial (more than 10 hives), hobbyest, or landowner. All registrations must be renewed by April 1 of each year. State law requires that apiaries registered by different commercial beekeepers be at least 3 miles apart. Exceptions to the 3-mile rule are permitted for hobbyests and landowners. The purpose of the 3-mile limit is to reduce spread of disease (when the law was put in place). Obviously, it probably helps slow the dissemination of mites, etc. As others have stated, registering a site entitles a beekeeper to ask for an inspection -- a good way for a hobbyest to get first hand instruction at the hive. Generally, the state prefers to warn and negotiate with beekeepers in violation of the rule. But, if the beekeeper refuses to comply, the state apiculturist can levy a fine, and if things get really bad, the Sheriff may pay you a visit. Fortunately, that's not a common occurence. For those of us who keep bees as part of our living, its comforting to know that if someone moves hives in on top of us or abandons hives, there is an inspection system, and recourse to stronger action, if absolutely necessary. Also, as Bob Harrison stated for Missouri, colonies moved from state to state are required to carry a health inspection certificate. Thus, all of the migratory folks are inspected each year. As you may have guessed, when a Montana beekeeper sells his/her business, the registered sites are usually an essential part of the deal. Sort of like getting a liquor license when buying a restaurant. Finally, if you show up in Montana with a semi-load of bees an no registered sites, you're likely to have problems setting them on the ground. We've had some folks try that strategy, doesn't work. Nor does calling me up and asking where you can sneak them in (that's also been tried, rather frequently). You can go to Helena and check out the maps of registered sites -- its public information -- and the state apiarist has a handy/dandy program that draws three mile circles around every registered location (down to the quarter section, now being located by GPS). Does anyone else have a similar registration program. Its my sense that many states dropped registrations, or take a much more generalized approach. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:07:08 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: thone Organization: Alcatel Telecom Subject: Re: Repair and painting polystyrene hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit phil MOORE wrote: > > I need to repair a polystyrene brood body and wonder if anyone has a > recommendation of which glue is suitable. Also I will be painting the brood > bodies is there a paint that is suitable? > 1. see http://www.warnholz.de/shop/ select Beuten (Hives) select Beutenzubehor (Hive accessories) see item nr 10485 (special repair stuff for polystyrene hives) 2. I 've mended a broken hive body with ordinary white wood glue. cheers, Hugo -- Hugo Thone do bee do bee do ... email : htho@se.bel.alcatel.be (\ phone : +32-(0)3-240.94.52 {||8- fax : +32-(0)3-240.99.49 (/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:30:47 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: polystyrene boxes Lloyd said: > ...dealers are not informing beekeepers of how important > maintenance is to the polystyrene equipment A notable figure in the beekeeping community recently said something on a related issue that made me think. He said "Jim, where's your hammer?" I told him, and he said "Most beekeepers DON'T KNOW where their hammer is, and don't really want to go find it!" He's got a point. When Mann Lake invests in new capital equipment dedicated to producing fully-assembled frames and supers at a faster rate than their old equipment, I think we can call it a trend. If some folks can't find their hammer, can they be expected to find a paintbrush? It may not be too long before even assembling your own supers, let alone making them from scratch with your own table saw and jigs seems as quaint and as outmoded as the use of basswood sections seems to many of us today. How long before pre-painted equipment is offered? I don't care if I am becoming a walking anachronism, even to other beekeepers. (Isn't this somewhat like being called "conservative" by Amish folks?) I like making sawdust, and I am a tool freak. My wife my woodshop sessions "A Saw Screams At Midnight". Hey, some guys go bowling. > Repair with any good resin glue, before painting if possible. > The best repair is to use both the resin glue and the gummy > strips that are sold to repair wallboard Has anyone figured out how to add handles to or carve handholds in poly hive-top feeders? I bought a bunch, I love 'em, the bees love 'em, but I don't like the lack of something to grip when lifting one that has a few gallons of feed in it. Sometimes you need to remove a nearly full feeder to get at the colony below, and I don't like the lack of something to grip. I thought about carving handholds, but there just is not enough wall thickness to make it seem like a prudent approach. Is there a glue that will stand the stresses put on handles? And are we 100% sure that all the various "polystyrene" hive components are made of the same exact type of "polystyrene"? I know nothing much about what is used in beehive components, but I do know that there is good reasons for the many confusingly similar, but still slightly different types of adhesives available. jim (Who had the misfortune to buy his son a beanbag chair without considering the effect of a 250-lb St. Bernard with untrimmed claws on the vinyl "bag" covering an estimated 46.3 billion polystyrene beads.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:58:25 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: State Apiary Registrations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry asks: Does anyone else have a similar registration program. Its my sense that many states dropped registrations, or take a much more generalized approach. We now have got accurate registration information for Ohio, Montana, Arizona & Missouri. Will others post your states information? Rules are always changing and I believe we might find the information interesting. Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:02:56 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: drone rearing colonies (wascell size in 1940's) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob & all > My guess is that if you do not put the drone comb in the path of the queen > and instead at the edge of the nest she will be less inclined to lay in the > cells. With colonies that only occupy the centre group of frames at the end of winter you can put a full frame of drawn drone cells just outside the nest on each side. If the bees expand onto these frames they will use them, but if you just pull a couple of frames and replace with drone comb, then that stops them expanding. I have used triangles of various sizes and in various frame positions, usually mimicing the shape that I expect the nest to be, but you have to put the frames in the previous season. > How do you set up a drone rearing colony which has no other purpose > but to produce large amounts of drones? This is one of the few times that I will use more than one brood box on a hive. First thing is the queen must be of the right pedigree. Second thing is suplementary feeding using frame feeders with honey feed diluted 50/50 with water (honey of known origin of course). Extra pollen trapped from other colonies in the same apiary, either put in empty drawn combs or fed in 'Taber' troughs. On top of the two brood boxes put a QE and supers well ahead of need, you will get some honey but only a couple of supers full. The amount of drone comb can be as much as 50%, but is mostly 33% - 40%. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:40:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Hayes, Gerald W" Subject: Re: State Apiary Registrations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob go to the Florida Dept of Ag and Consumer Services web site. Weave around to the Division of Plant Industry and then Apiary Inspection and you'll see the best program in the country and possibly the world. But I think you already know that. Take Care Jerry Hayes -----Original Message----- From: Bob Harrison [mailto:busybeeacres@DISCOVERYNET.COM] Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 11:58 AM To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Re: [BEE-L] State Apiary Registrations Jerry asks: Does anyone else have a similar registration program. Its my sense that many states dropped registrations, or take a much more generalized approach. We now have got accurate registration information for Ohio, Montana, Arizona & Missouri. Will others post your states information? Rules are always changing and I believe we might find the information interesting. Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:50:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Al B Subject: Looking for Honey Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I am looking for someone with bulk honey for sale in Northern Michigan or North Eastern Ontario ASAP Allen B Sault Ste Marie, on http://www.honeyroad.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:42:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: crystallized honey >1. What do bees do with crystallized honey when it's given to them as I did? >2. What can I do with the crystallized honey I have - about 7 or 8 medium supers? Honey crystallizes naturally. Relax, the bees will eat it all the same. They will use all the old stores up during spring build up. I usually have a few supers around to feed the hungry and/or packages/splits in spring. A few crystalized honey frames can be a very valuable resource. Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:15:17 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: phil MOORE Subject: Re: 5.2 performance (was cell size in 1940's) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . We found 5.25 noticably > outperformed even 5.3 in a controlled, but unpublished experiment. > In what way do they perform better? I have started using Pierco frames for the past year in the UK and am wondering what your experiences were. Regards Phil Moore :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:29:56 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Re: State Apiary Registrations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit West Virginia still has requirement to register bee hives in this state. How ever if funding for our only 2 inspectors is deleted I don't know who would care. Russ Dean :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:54:44 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: State Apiary Registrations In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks to those of you who have already responded. One request, could you provide a bit more information than "the state requires registration". Does the state register hive locations or just number of hives? Are there any distance/spacing requirements? States vary widely, and its of interest to know a bit more about how each state handles registrations. The issue of no dollars to administer/oversee/inspect is rather common. Thanks Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:48:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: State Apiary Registrations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain New York has a voluntary registration program. You need not register your hives or yards, some do, some don't. The NYS inspection program had been dissolved, beekeepers successfully canvassed their legislators to have the program funded and reinstated, but the program that was resurrected is not the program beekeepers canvassed for or recommended. Migratory beekeepers may be inspected as they pass through or put down in the state (New York is a popular stop over for goldenrod before heading back to Florida). There are no rules or regs ragarding proximity to other yards. Only yards that are registered with the state get inspected (the inspectors have to know where the hives are located before they can be inspected). :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:13:34 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Looking for Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen said: I am looking for someone with bulk honey for sale in Northern Michigan or North Eastern Ontario ASAP Not in Michigan but maybe what you are looking for? I could not get your posted address to work. If you are interested in containers of *amber* grade fall 2003 *U.S. honey* F.O.B. the southeast email me direct for contact information. I apologize to the list for making contact direct instead of off list! Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:30:45 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Re: State Apiary Registrations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On West Virginia, They ask just for the location and number of hives at each location. We've never had a spacing or distance between hives or yards. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:36:34 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Drone control for Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I draw readers' attention to an article in the latest issue of Bee World (Vol 84 (4)). It is entitled "The potential for using male selection in breeding honey bees resistant to Varroa destructor" and the authors are Sarah E Jandricic and Gard W Otis from the Department of Environmental Biology, University of Guelph, Ontario, Canada. The article summarises the effects of varroa on drones and explores the potential powerful role of male gamete selection in the breeding of mite resistant bees. It is a long and fascinating article and is copyright so I shall quote only the conclusion: "The method of selecting desired genotypes through hemizygous males has considerable potential for the breeding of mite resistant honey bees. Direct selection on gametes can take place through the haploid male because its entire genome is unmasked being free of dominance effects. The negative effects exerted on drones by mites, both direct and indirect, can act to increase the relative frequency of drones carrying resistance alleles in the mating population. Selection pressure from uncontrolled mite populations will determine to a large extent which drones pass on their genes. Ways to implement this type of selection programme, however, need to be addressed and tested under field conditions" Put over simply, with drones having only one set of chromosomes, what you see is what you get. There are no hidden recessives to complicate matters although some of the characteristics are expressed only through their daughters. They are preferred by mites and so the selection pressure is strongest. Drones from colonies that have least mites are most likely to mate and pass on their genes. If mite numbers are not over-suppressed by beekeepers natural selection of resistance to the mites will develop relatively rapidly. Although many readers will not get to see Bee World regularly, they probably belong to a beekeeping association or an institution that does subscribe. It is worth getting yourself put on the circulation list or your librarian will file away this secret store of wisdom. > Chris > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:44:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: State Apiary Registrations In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20040203084834.01da6780@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-66545EC1; boundary="=======22BE5C9F=======" --=======22BE5C9F======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-66545EC1; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Does anyone else have a similar registration program. Its my sense that >many states dropped registrations, or take a much more generalized approach. Vermont has a two mile limit on commercial yards. Landowners are excluded. Mike --=======22BE5C9F=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:03:07 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Kilty Subject: Re: cell size in 1940's In-Reply-To: <200402030155.i130lhRH000397@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200402030155.i130lhRH000397@listserv.albany.edu>, Chuck Norton writes in reply to my >James asks: Did Baudoux do his work in France? and said >The late Monsieur Ursmar Baudoux of >Belgium was the first to conceive of the use of an artificial foundation >having an enlarged cell base to increase the size of the emerging bee. In this year, I suspect that the bees were very likely to be A.m.m. It is too easy to neglect the influence of race and consider one result superior or faulty as compared with another. > In >the year 1893 he was amazed on discovering bees from an old skep which >were very much smaller than normal. Without data on race, I would not be able to interpret the second part. It might have been a type from another area adapted to a smaller size. Certainly I have had a beekeeper from Scotland talk about having had bees very much smaller than mine, a strain in a highland glen which he had not seen anywhere else. I have also had a comment about how small the bees were on a man's flowers - mine were the nearest bees. But this last may be another effect of the different sized foundation in use in the UK. I use 5.45mm compared with a perhaps more common 5.7mm. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 19:26:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Milt Lathan Subject: Thoughts on Re-Queening in spring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I confess that I rarely find a queen when I am looking for one -so I dread the upcoming chore of finding and replacing queens. So far, it looks like 5 of my 6 hives will come through OK. I knew going into winter that one hive needed a new queen but my main aim is to avoid swarming. I have in mind smoking, fuming or drumming the bees thru an excluder into an empty brood box and creating a 'nuc' for the new queen. My own experience is that a nuc or package rarely swarms. Also, I have some hope that this would make the old queens easier to find. I am figuring that if I start early - weather permitting, about March 1st – there won’t be much brood to shift around. So, do you see any problems with this approach? How about ideas to make it better? My hives are on 3 residential sites about 30-45 minutes of travel apart, north, south and east of Seattle, WA. I tried requeening 3 hives last spring and only "succeeded" with one. One queen was wasted. And another turned-out to be a 2-queen hive which was the only producing hive I had last year. Then again, last year we were plagued with more swarming than I have ever seen. TFL - Milt :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 20:12:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Looking for Honey On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:50:35 -0500, Al B wrote: "I am looking for someone with bulk honey for sale in Northern Michigan..." Go to: http://honeylocator.com and search by location; there are several sources in MI. Chuck Norton Norton' Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 19:59:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Thoughts on Re-Queening in spring Milt, Its a good practice and part of the art of beekeeping to seek out and find a queen; with practice you will develop a quick eye and early spring is the best time to learn as populations have not yet built up. There are times when seeing freshly laid eggs standing one to a cell straight up, a good pattern of brood, and a joyful quietness within the hive will signal a good laying queen. But there are indeed times when you need to find her, or you must find her! As to swarming in a NUC or package, always stay ahead of your bees, else they will swarm. Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC (Murphy's Law as it applies to bees: If they can swarm they will swarm and they will swarm at the most inconvenient inopportune time:) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 19:43:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: cell size in 1940's On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:03:07 +0000, James Kilty wrote: "Without data on race, I would not be able to interpret the second part. It might have been a type from another area adapted to a smaller size." A link given in the post went to the rest of the article which gave in a table data with race. Regards, Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsvile, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 21:11:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Steve Bonine Subject: Re: State Apiary Registrations [MN] In-Reply-To: <7b.21e64d2a.2d518925@wmconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Minnesota information, copied from from http://www.mda.state.mn.us/apiary/default.htm As provided under Minnesota law, our apiary inspection program works with beekeepers to help maintain healthy colonies of honey bees in Minnesota for honey production and pollination. Disease and pest survey inspections are done in several counties each year with a goal of inspecting bees in most counties every 5 years. When diseases such as American Foulbrood ,Chalkbrood and Varroa are found, we work with the beekeeper to control the disease and prevent its spread to other colonies in the area. Registration [link to PDF for registration form] of colonies is required and the location data is used for our inspection program and also provided to pesticide applicators on request. Every year we inspect and certify colonies for movement to other states. Import permits are required to bring colonies or nucs into the state. --- End of text quoted from web site --- The registration application requests the name/address of the person registering, location of honey house if any, and the location of each apiary. The fee is $10 per application (not per apiary). Registration is due by April 15 of each year. There is a lookup facility on the above page for finding registered apiaries. MN beekeeping laws can be found at http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/19/ which is linked to by the above URL. I am not aware of any restriction on apiary locations. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 21:54:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Drone Flooding, and Starting A New Line MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To The List: Perhaps a queen breeders could respond to this writers opinion below as I am neither a commercial package bee supplier nor a professional queen breeder. I do raise a few queens for my own benefit and others who may purchase queens when available and for fall requeening. As with many on the BEE-L I also sell splits in the spring. I have been using queens purchased each spring from a Georgia package and queen breeder that has gentle and productive Italians when making spring splits as I have hives on pollination next to rows of strawberries that are being picked by the growers customers. After much thought, I have decided to integrate the Minnesota Hygienic lines developed by Dr. Marla Spivak into my operations. By the way, Dr. Spivak will be speaking at the Spring Conference of the North Carolina State Beekeepers Association in New Bern, North Carolina March 12 and 13, 2004; Ann Harmon will be there too! Much has been said on the BEE-L within the past few month regarding queens; in comparison very little has been said about drones. The production of a line of queens with desired traits or desired breeding requires control of both the father and the mother of the queen that results from breeding- for whatever purpose, reason, or desire. Regarding Larry Connor’s series of articles published in “Bee Culture, Dr. Connor in the December 2003 issue writes about Drone-Holding Colonies, Drone Mother Colonies, methods of manipulation and usage of Drone –Holding Colonies and timing since natural mating of queens must be accomplished with sexually mature drones. Detailed plans were given for placement of frames and uses of drone-Holding and-Increase Colonies. Dr. Connor’s series does make very good sense and is a valuable tool in planning successful drone rearing and queen mating. His experience with this mater is certainly justifiable for incorporation into a series of articles; however, I believe that you would have to have a large organization to support Dr. Connor’s ideas as discussed in December 2003 and if put into operation; most of us could not afford such time and expense. In the November 2003 "Bee Culture" Conner develops a 46 day table for drone rearing which also shows timing to coincide with queen rearing. This spring I will order several breeder queens to arrive in early May, and after trails raise queens this summer for fall replacements in two lines, active and inactive using local drones. Next spring I will schedule splits, queen rearing, and drone rearing to Connor’s 46 day schedule plus 3 days as Glenn Apiaries recommends a 15 day maturation period for drones. I also plan to maximize Hygienic drones next spring, ’05, by flooding techniques from some of my best Minnesota Hygienic queens whose lines of parentage were not used, inactive line for queen rearing, in order to prevent inbreeding. Furthermore, I will use whole frames of capped drone brood from my active line of breeder queens as a varroa control and lesser method of swarm prevention, which limits unwanted drones, that are most likely to carry the same alleles as the active line of queens. In May 2005, I will once again receive an order of breeder queens to repeat the process in order to assure a higher percentage of Minnesota Hygienic drones of a different parentage thus having different alleles. I believe that I will be able to accomplish this without the greater expense required by Connor’s method. Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 20:37:31 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Drone control for Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Dave & All, Interesting hypothesis but I only agree to the fact that the easy way to introduce traits into your bee population is through your drone population. Dave quotes: Selection pressure from uncontrolled mite populations will determine to a large extent which drones pass on their genes. Ways to implement this type of selection programme, however, need to be addressed and tested under field conditions" The above leaves too many things to chance just like breeding from suvivors does. There are too many reasons why a certain hive might have a high mite load to select correctly. Our U.S. researchers tried to breed a bee from survivors for fifteen years without success. Only when they began to closely observe the brood nest and varroa reproduction (S.M.S. & P- MIB) were concrete advances made. I can not comment on the article without reading the article but from what you have written the method seems a giant step backward in my opinion but what do I know? Dave said: . If mite numbers are not over-suppressed by beekeepers natural selection of resistance to the mites will develop relatively rapidly. Same old BS we have been hearing from the start of the varroa issue. Plain old raising bees from survivor queens and drones from the hives with the lowest varroa loads has been proven (at least in my mind) as a loss cause! One needs to know what the reason is for sure for the low varroa load to include the queen/ drones in the breeding program. Hope we can "agree to disagree". The key to stopping varroa dead in its tracts revolves around varroa reproduction in my opinion and many of the world's researchers. Enjoy your posts Dave and your excellent web site! Bob "In an infinite universe, every point can be regarded as the center, because every point has an infinite number of stars on each side of it." Stephen Hawking :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 19:07:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Drone Flooding, Connor, and Changing To A New Line of Genetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dave penned: "Using whole frames of drone foundation in the brood nest can disrupt the nest significantly, the bees never do this themselves so why should a beekeeper attempt it?" and Bob followed: How do you set up a drone rearing colony which has no other purpose but to produce large amounts of drones? Perhaps a few professional queen breeders could respond to this writers opinion below or the above as I am neither a commercial package bee supplier nor a professional queen breeder. I do raise a few queens for my own benefit and others who may purchase queens when available and for fall requeening. As with many on the BEE-L I also sell splits in the spring and in doing so I am permitted by the state in which I live to sell bees. I have been using queens purchased each spring from a Georgia package and queen breeder that has gentle and productive Italians when making spring splits as I have hives on pollination next to rows of strawberries that are being picked by the growers customers. After many hours of thought, I have decided to integrate the Minnesota Hygienic lines developed by Dr. Marla Spivak into my operation. By the way, Dr. Spivak will be speaking at the Spring Conference of the North Carolina State Beekeepers Association in New Bern, North Carolina March 12 and 13, 2004; I can’t wait to get her cornered, and Ann Harmon will be there too! I am writing the following because it makes sense to me, perhaps only me. Much has been said on the BEE-L within the past few month regarding queens; in comparison very little has been said about drones. The production of a line of queens with desired traits or desired breeding requires control of both the father and the mother of the queen that results- for whatever purpose, reason, or desire. Drones need further discussion! Bob has mentioned Larry Connor’s series of articles published in the World’s most easily and most widely read beekeeping periodical, “Bee Culture”. I suggest that those of you who do not have a copy of these articles should beg, borrow or go to the nearest library and check out Mr. Connor’s writings on your own. If your library does not carry “Bee Culture” perhaps, your local beekeeping club or organization could fund it! Dr. Connor in the December 2003 issue writes about Drone-Holding Colonies, Drone Mother Colonies, methods of manipulation and usage of Drone –Holding Colonies and timing since natural mating of queens must be accomplished with sexually mature drones. Detailed plans were given for placement of frames and uses of drone-Holding and-Increase Colonies. Dr. Connor’s series does make very good sense and is a valuable tool in planning successful drone rearing and queen mating. His experience with this mater is certainly justifiable for incorporation into a series of articles; however, I believe that you would have to have a large organization to support Dr. Connor’s ideas as discussed in December 2003 and if put into operation; most of us could not afford such time and expense. In the November 2003 "Bee Culture" Conner develops a 46 day table for drone rearing which also shows timing to coincide with queen rearing. This spring I will order several breeder queens to arrive in early May, and after trails raise queens this summer for fall replacements in two lines, active and inactive using local drones. Next spring I will schedule splits, queen rearing, and drone rearing to Connor’s 46 day schedule plus 3 days as Glenn Apiaries recommends a 15 day maturation period for drones. I also plan to maximize Hygienic drones next spring, ’05, by flooding techniques from some of my best Minnesota Hygienic queens whose lines of parentage were not used, inactive line for queen rearing, in order to prevent inbreeding. Furthermore, I will use whole frames of capped drone brood from my active line of breeder queens as a varroa control and lesser method of swarm prevention, which limits unwanted drones, that are most likely to carry the same alleles as the active line of queens. In May 2005, I will once again receive an order of breeder queens to repeat the process in order to assure a higher percentage of Minnesota Hygienic drones of a different parentage thus having different alleles. I believe that I will be able to accomplish this without the greater expense required by Connor’s method. By the way there were several really good articles in the November 2003 “Bee Culture” by some guys named Jim Fischer and Bob Harrison, could it be? Naw! Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC (Whose experience with Murphy’s Laws certainly understands dogs on bean bags, hive staples not holding when carrying 150 pound hives without a veil, truck radiators with Stop Leak; and, leaving home to go to South in the cold of winter without a house sitter:). :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:05:53 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Bees in History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Curtis Crowell wrote:" > By following the > swarm on the ground, and making a lot of noise (banging pots,or whatever) the > beekeeper could maintain ownership and recover the swarm once it did land. This was called 'Tanging the bees' and I think that you are right in that, although some say that it would cause the swarm to settle, the main purpose was to maintain ownership. Of course, many swarms do settle quickly, so the tanging would have appeared to have caused the swarm to cluster. > Kind of like calling "I've got it" when you're in the outfield running under > a pop fly. If you say so, but I haven't a clue what it means! Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:25:07 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Feeding in the middle of a cold winter. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Kilty wrote: > Cut a cross in the bag, fold open, add a quarter cup of water, wait till > it is absorbed, then turn it over and place over the hole above the > cluster. Bees will climb up and have some insulation. This is fine if the cluster is under the feed hole, but a colony that is desperately short of stores (which begs the question: Why did you let it get into that condition?) may well have eaten its way to one end of the box; if there is some brood then they will not move from it if the weather is cold - so they may not be able to use the sugar supplied. I prefer to use bakers fondant placed directly over the cluster on an excluder. Use an eke or empty super around it. See: http://www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/PENotes/Fondant.htm Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:10:33 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Bees in History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Russ Dean wrote: > Have you heard the tale that bees couldn't sting you if you held your breath? > You held your breath and the pores on you skin would close and the stinger > had no place to go. I thought that was funny. Aggressive colonies often react badly to human breath, so not breathing over the colony may well reduce stings. So often there is a good scientific reason why these old sayings actually work. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 10:03:22 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Drone Flooding, Connor, and Changing To A New Line of Genetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chuck & all > I also plan to maximize Hygienic drones next spring, '05, by flooding > techniques from some of my best Minnesota Hygienic queens whose lines of > parentage were not used, inactive line for queen rearing Don't expect too much in the first few seasons, drone flooding improves with time... In the first season it helps if you can also trap 'unwanted' drones, in a second or subsequent season you can allow all daughters of your first year set of breeders to produce drones as well as relegating the breeders to drone production. Use a new set of breeders to produce the female lines in the second year and use a new set every year thereafter so that this years queens are always mated to the drones of last years queens. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 21:21:52 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: 5.2 performance (was cell size in 1940's) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> We found 5.25 noticably >> outperformed even 5.3 in a controlled, but unpublished experiment. > In what way do they perform better? I have started using Pierco frames for > the past year in the UK and am wondering what your experiences were. We tried a number of brood comb options for starting package bees, including dark comb, light comb, two colours of plastic foundation, and black Pierco one-piece frames I described the test at http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/fdnvsdrawn.htm If you have any questions, let me know. allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 06:40:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: State Apiary Registrations [MN] In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-2BED59; boundary="=======1C934812=======" --=======1C934812======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-2BED59; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > When diseases such >as Chalkbrood are found, we work with >the beekeeper to control the disease and prevent its spread to other >colonies in the area. What are you doing to control chalk, and prevent its spread? Mike --=======1C934812=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 06:53:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Bees in History In-Reply-To: <009d01c3eaf1$13dd6440$0cc887d9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-2BED59; boundary="=======427A6B60=======" --=======427A6B60======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-2BED59; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Kind of like calling "I've got it" when you're in the outfield running >under > > a pop fly. > >If you say so, but I haven't a clue what it means! >Peter Edwards When playing baseball, if the ball is hit high in the air toward more than one player, they have to decide who will catch it. One player, usually the one with the best chance of catching the ball, will call out..."I've got it," and the other players will leave the "pop fly" to be caught by the player who "called it." Baseball...it sure ain't cricket Mike --=======427A6B60=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:20:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Varroa and mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CSlade said in reference to drones, "They are preferred by mites and so the selection pressure is strongest." I have been told that the varroa preference by drones is in the category of 'old wives tale', although it is certainly logical (to humans). I am told that experiments by Calderone established that drone cells are not more frequently infected than those of workers. Does anyone have a reference to Calderone's work...or is this an 'old wives tale'? Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:41:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter John Keating Subject: a box and a half MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, whilst visiting beekeepers in the United States I have seen the colonies in a box and a half. Is this a 2/3 box ( 6 5/8) or a half box (5 and something) ? Sometimes this is under the full box and sometimes this is above the full box. Could somebody elaborate on this system? Is it only pollinating beekeepers that use this system? Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:44:56 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Drone Flooding, Connor, and Changing To A New Line of Genetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Chuck & All, The Febuary issue of Bee Culture came yesterday and the next series of Larry Conner articles is going to be about queens. This months article is "The Perfect Queen". We are blessed to have two excellent bee magazines available to us in the U.S. at a very reasonable price ( discounts to members of bee clubs for both mags). All beekeepers should subscribe to at least one and *both* if possible. Chuck said; After many hours of thought, I have decided to integrate the Minnesota Hygienic lines developed by Dr. Marla Spivak into my operation. Dr. Marla Spivak's line has been the best we have used. We even tested the breeder queen with Marla's own method to make sure she was hygienic. She was! Hygienic is easy to select for so I am surprised all queen breeders do not sellect for and sell hygienic queens. Chuck said; By the way, Dr. Spivak will be speaking at the Spring Conference of the North Carolina State Beekeepers Association in New Bern, North Carolina March 12 and 13, 2004; I can't wait to get her cornered, I have had harder times talking directly with speakers at small meetings than national meetings. During the talk I write down the questions I have got and put in order of importance. Many times I can get the questions answered in the question session at the end of the talk but other times I have to stand and wait my turn. Short direct quick answers are the norm for speakers after a talk. Every once in a while you get lucky like I did in Jacksonville and a speaker like Dr Harbo carries on a conversation with you for about forty five minutes. I will share a bit of information I learned from Dr. Harbo. Around 12 years ago a mutant strain of capensis was observed in South Africa and has caused much concern due to the fact after the hive is taken over the hive almost always dies. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:07:09 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Blane White Subject: Re: State Apiary Registrations [MN] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mike, You ask about controlling chalkbrood and preventing its spread. In a word requeening with hygenic stocks and sanitation. Hygenic behavior results in a high degree of resistance to both chalkbrood and american foulbrood. To prevent spread basic sanitation really can help. Mainly thinking in terms of not spreading infection by moving combs from infected to uninfected colonies and never never trapping pollen for feeding bees from colonies with any chalkbrood. Some combs from colonies with very heavy infections are best replaced but changing to a hygenic stock will often take care of the problem by itself pretty quickly. Just the same old basic good beekeeping practices. Hope this helps. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 09:51:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Almond Pollination Fees, 2004 From: http://bluediamond.com/growers/field/detail.cfm?l_location=3 "In preparation for the bloom, beekeepers spent the latter half of January moving colonies into staging areas throughout the region and as the month ended, the first hives began to move into orchards planted to the earliest blooming varieties." The price per hive for almond pollination fees in California has an effect upon pollination pricing across the entire United States as the perceived worth of a hive rented for pollination is transferred across the country. The ABJ reported in the February 2004 issue that early reports of pollination fees have been averaging near the $50.00 per colony level; I have been hearing more like $60.00 and up, up, up! Does anyone know of actual contracted prices? Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:35:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Varroa and mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Lloyd wrote, > I have been told that the varroa preference (for) drones is in > the category of > 'old wives tale' Well, I don't think varroa has been around long enough for wives to get old, but perhaps so. However, the initial perception that varroa "prefer" drones is falling out of favor, although drones DO exhibit a higher rate of infestation than workers. What was initially thought to be a preference is now being chalked up to other causes, such as the fact that drone cells are uncapped for a longer period than worker cells, hence it is more likely that varroa will find their way into the uncapped cells. Cell height (the fact that drone cells are higher than worker cells) is also being offered as a possible explanation. I heard this offered at a conference a few years back (I don't recall where or when), but then heard very little follow-up on the idea. I do not kown of Nick's experiments to which Lloyd refers, but would be interested to see the results, Dr. Calderone will be speaking at the SABA Seminar scheduled for February 28 here at UAlbany. See: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0401B&L=bee-l&P=R623 Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:03:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Bees in History In-Reply-To: <009e01c3eaf1$146cd300$0cc887d9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-2BED59; boundary="=======4C343956=======" --=======4C343956======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-2BED59; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >Aggressive colonies often react badly to human breath, so not breathing over >the colony may well reduce stings. I have found my breath to be a useful tool. When holding, and examining a comb, the bees can be herded about by lightly blowing on them. I always place the first comb removed from the hive body on its end, leaning up against the hive. Often there will be bees hanging from the frame, and will be crushed if the frame is placed on the ground. Blowing on them will herd them off the end bar, and up onto the comb, so the comb can safely be placed on the ground. Mike --=======4C343956=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 10:28:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Hive configurations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter remarked about seeing what he considered an unusual hive configuration during a US trip and asked how often it was used and whether it was limited to certain purposes, such as pollination. Here in the Northeast, what we call a one and a half (1 ½) story hive is commonly used. I believe it is also a very common configuration in parts of the upper mid-west. The deep (the '1') is a standard Langstroth, 9.5" deep. The medium can be either 4¾", 5.5", 6 5/8" or 7 5/8" deep. Unfortunately, all of these sizes are more or less 'standard', meaning that one can buy wired brood foundation and frames to fit. Most common, by far, is 6 5/8". I believe the original purpose of this configuration was to reduce weight when moving hives, while providing plenty of space for brood production. This configuration allows room for sufficient honey and pollen storage (90 lbs.) for our long winters. In recent years, several well-known authors have advocated this configuration for hobbyists as it is far easier to manipulate than two deeps. When I advise beekeepers to use this configuration I suggest over-wintering with the medium on the bottom. This makes it easier to find the queen in the spring (as she will almost certainly be in the deep) and to make splits. If the medium is on the top the brood will be split between both boxes and the queen can be in either box. This makes it harder to find her and more difficult to make up good splits. The only disadvantage I have found is that the bees are more inclined to swarm with this configuration than with three deeps. I don't find they are more likely to swarm compared to two deeps. While I personally keep most hives in three deeps, I don't often move bees and don't advise hobbyists to do so because of the necessary added expertise and muscles. Hope this helps, Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 10:26:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Bees in History Like Mike, I have also found my breath to be a useful tool: Often when searching for a queen I will gently puff upon a frame having a mass of clustered workers. Sometimes, although rarely, you can find her as the cluster of bees disperses. Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 16:09:57 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Curtis Crowell Subject: Re: Bees in History "Pop Fly" more on the "pop fly" baseball term used to describe the act of the beekeeper who is running after a swarm banging pots.... You have to get a visual image in your mind of the ball in the air, and two (or more players) all looking UP at the ball, running under it. If no one yelled "I've got it" you would have a collision of two or more players who run into each other (since they're only looking up) in the attempt to catch the ball. It fits nicely with the idea of a beekeeper, who is running madly under the swarm, not looking where he is going, as his/her eyes are only looking UP. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 09:09:41 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Hive configurations In-Reply-To: <008a01c3eb33$92459900$fde9d518@newdell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here in the west, many call these deeps vs mediums/shallow boxes. As Lloyd says, its a good option for hobby beekeepers because of reduced weight. Many of our commercial folks use all deeps, so that they always have a box for whatever's needed - no real difference between brood boxes and honey supers. Also, it cuts down on the number of boxes/combs to extract; although it does increase weight per box. Having said that, there are commercial folks who routinely use the shorter boxes for honey supers. That way, they know which boxes are honey supers, and never bring the "brood" boxes into the honey house. If they get a diseased colony, they're hoping that the brood boxes have the worst infestation, and that the shallow, extracted honey supers will be less of a threat for re-infestation -- with thousands of hives, they don't keep track of which honey super came off of which set of brood boxes. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:19:03 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: BEE-L moderators Subject: Re: a box and a half MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message was originally submitted by workerbee@HONEYROAD.COM to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU and was edited by a moderator to remove excess quoted material. --- Hi Peter, I know for myself, I use 3 medium supers in Northern Ontario. During my conversion from deeps to mediums, I over wintered hives with without a medium and deep, and it was more than enough for the bees to over winter on. I'm sure that for migratory beekeepers, it more an issue of weight and size, get more colonies on the flatbed without compromising the bees. For myself, converting to medium is for the long run. I can handle a deep box now, but when I'm older, it will be more of an 90 lbs and a medium would average 40-50 lbs. As well, having one standard frame size for the whole apiary, and in overwintering, the bees have an more space to move from frame to frame. Using 3 med is a bit more expensive at first, but worth it. Allen Banks Sault Ste Marie, Ont http://www.honeyroad.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:47:11 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Bees in History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Palmer wrote: > I have found my breath to be a useful tool. Me too - but colonies do vary and some do not like breath. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:52:30 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Bees in History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chuck Norton wrote: > Often when searching for a queen I will gently puff upon a frame having a mass of > clustered workers. Sometimes, although rarely, you can find her as the > cluster of bees disperses. Interesting that you use the word rarely. Many books tell you to look in these clusters of bees (I also puff or touch them lightly with a finger), but I cannot say that I recall ever finding a queen under the mass of workers. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:07:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: S Wilson Subject: Re: Anyone heard of Degree-day research? In-Reply-To: <200402041526.i14CFMk9017784@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Has there been research on "degree-days" to figure out when various races of honeybees start brood? The degree-day figures are used in gardening to figure things from "weed emergence" dates to probable "pest hatch out" dates. As I understand it is the accumulated number of degrees above a certain point, i.e. heating degree days tell how much you've had to heat your home to keep it above a set point (65F). Agricultural degree days are figured from 40 to 50 degrees, I think. It applies widely in gardening. Here the heating degree days are in the weather section of the paper. I was watching my bees flying today (48F) and figured it's time for pollen patties. Degree-days would help this beeginner be more certain. Hours of daylight correlate somewhat with degree days, too. My chickens are starting to lay more and should go broody soon due to the day-length. Thanks, in anticipation. I'm a lurker, Mid Virginia USA, 12 overwintering hives, working toward Russian Hygenics (Smart Russians). (Know of sources for these queens?) Keep talking!!! Susi Wilson :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:35:20 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jack Grimshaw Subject: Re. Hive Registration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Connecticut requires registration of all hives annually or one can be fined. Also,all hives and packages imported to the state must be accompanied by a certificate of inspection.Unfortunately,the available funds will only support a part time inspector. For more information see: http://www.caes.state.ct.us/InspectandRegandGeneral/inspecti.htm Jack Grimshaw :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 16:35:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Almond Pollination Fees, 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I am not an expert on Almond pollination but I believe I can answer these questions. Chuck wrote: "In preparation for the bloom, beekeepers spent the latter half of January moving colonies into staging areas throughout the region and as the month ended, the first hives began to move into orchards planted to the earliest blooming varieties." Right before the move into the orchards California beekeepers gather the hives into holding areas so they can devote the time to putting the hives into Almonds when the signal comes to move the hives in. We do the same thing for all crops we pollinate. Chuck wrote: The ABJ reported in the February 2004 issue that early reports of pollination fees have been averaging near the $50.00 per colony level; I have been hearing more like $60.00 and up, up, up! Does anyone know of actual contracted prices? Around 50 is about right. I was offered higher two days ago if the bees were on location in California in a week! Five days left and the whole west is snow and ice but email me direct if interested in filling his pollination contract and I will send the contact information. He asked for 1700 *strong* hives. Small growers are paying the higher fees. The same goes for other fruits etc. If you order half a truck load you pay a higher fee. Has always been the way. The guys which are showing up in California with hives not yet contracted to growers are indeed getting big prices as from what I am hearing a shortage exists this season. However if they do not find a rental they have trucked their hives to California and back at considerable expense! California Almond pollination is certainly a learning experience for out of state beekeepers. Enough said! Of the two of my associates which took bees to Almonds last year only one is sending bees this year. We are loading the first semi tomorrow after the snow storm ends around noon. The hives are sitting ready to be loaded now and the driver is enroute with chains on. We will use a bobcat to clear the snow out of the loading area. If I get time I will take pictures and email to Allen and maybe he will post on his diary site. I have been involved in most areas of beekeeping but this is a first time for loading a semi of bee hives in a snow storm! On the brighter side the truck which is coming to load on Friday will be easier as the roads should be in better shape. The Almond growers are waiting on these bees so we can't let a little thing like a blizzard and ice packed roads get in the way. These are *not* my bees so the worse thing that might happen to me is I slip and fall on the ice or from the top of the semi putting on a net or get cold loading. A fellow beekeeper from North Dakota told me on the phone to quit complaining and start loading as what we are going through happens several times each year when sending bees from North Dakota to Almonds. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:08:31 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Cell size in the 1940s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 04/02/04 05:04:26 GMT Standard Time, James Kilty writes: > I have had a beekeeper from Scotland talk about having had > bees very much smaller than mine, a strain in a highland glen which he > had not seen anywhere else. But this last may be another effect of the > different sized foundation in use in > the UK. I use 5.45mm compared with a perhaps more common 5.7mm. I believe that Murray McGregor, who is a very large beekeeper in Scotland, uses a cell size of about 5.2. Chris > -- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:04:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Finding Queens (Was: Bees in History) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter Edwards wrote: "Interesting that you use the word rarely. Many books tell you to look in these clusters of bees (I also puff or touch them lightly with a finger), but I cannot say that I recall ever finding a queen under the mass of workers." Peter, I chose "rarely" because I truly rarely find the queen in that manner, perhaps once every three years. I have to look at every frame when searching for the lady, and that's a whole lot of frames! Most of the time I'll find her as I spread a frame away from the rest with a gentle twist of my hive tool between the top bars and quickly peer down the sides of the frames on the small crevasse just opened. And yes, I often touch very lightly with my finger as well sometimes with a slight passing motion over the top of the mass. I always enjoy finding a queen that seems to be oblivious to my presence and the brightness of daylight going about her business of inspecting one cell at a time then carefully depositing her egg. Then there are the runners! But, that’s another post. Regards, Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:20:34 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gerald Herrin Subject: Re: Drone Flooding, Connor, and Changing To A New Line of Genetics In-Reply-To: <001701c3eb25$14ddbfa0$44ac58d8@BusyBeeAcres> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Two questions: has there been any further information regarding the Cape bee? I seem to recall something to the effect that there has been an increase in its range, to the detriment of A. m. scutellata. Also, is there any current information on the the varieties or races of bees in the Russia and former countries of the Soviet Union? In "Russian Life" magazine, an article claimed that there was a race of bees in Bashkiria (also known as the Republic of Bashkorotostan) which lies at the southern end of the Urals. Are there, perhaps, numerous examples of this? Thanks. Gerald On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 07:44 AM, Bob Harrison wrote: > I will share a bit of information I learned from Dr. Harbo. Around 12 > years > ago a mutant strain of capensis was observed in South Africa and has > caused > much concern due to the fact after the hive is taken over the hive > almost > always dies. Gerald Herrin geraldherrin@earthlink.net "In the City men are counting money that will bury them one day in graves of gold." -- traditional Gaelic song :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:42:56 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Bees in History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Palmer wrote: > One player, usually the > one with the best chance of catching the ball, will call out..."I've got > it," Hmmm. Maybe he should call out..."I'll get it" - "got" seems somewhat premature! Thanks for the info. Best wishes Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:32:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: BEE-L moderators Subject: Re: Almond Pollination Fees, 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message was originally submitted by Anthony.M.Jadczak@MAINE.GOV and has been edited by a moderator to remove quotes of a previous article. --- Regarding Mr Norton's question on almond pollination prices According to one of my sources, 8+ frames are $62 and singles 5-6 frames(6 ave)are $48. Hives are said to be up and down this year with some real small clusters. No bee flight observed a few hours ago, temps in the 40 degree range. Therefore, bees in staging yards ( usually 2 loads/yard) are unable to visit the barrels of pollen substitute and syrup today. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 01:44:30 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Drone Flooding, Connor, and Changing To A New Line of Genetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/5/04 1:48:41 AM GMT Standard Time, geraldherrin@EARTHLINK.NET writes: > In > "Russian Life" magazine, an article claimed that there was a race of > bees in Bashkiria (also known as the Republic of Bashkorotostan) which > lies at the southern end of the Urals. I correspond with a guy out there. He told me their bee is the 'Mid Russian Bee', a black bee which is the local ecotype of the European Black Bee, A. m. mellifera (or mellifica if you prefer). They are extraordinarily winter hardy, and they get a huge harvest in mid summer from Lime trees (Basswood or Linden if you are from places where these names apply). In Bashkiria is situated apparently the largest forest remaining on earth of Lime/Linden/Basswood, and my correspondent told me it is 'the size of Switzerland'. Downside? He describes the bee as 'very evil'. Murray :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:45:09 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Bees in History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Peter said... > Interesting that you use the word rarely. Many books tell you to look in > these clusters of bees (I also puff or touch them lightly with a finger), > but I cannot say that I recall ever finding a queen under the mass of > workers. Some clusters have a queen others do not. There is a difference in shape... The 'have queen' clusters are more compact and more spherical in shape, whereas the 'have not' clusters are more 'flying saucer' or 'galaxy' shaped. You will sometimes find scalloped, polished areas on the face of the comb that these 'have not' type of clusters form in. You may also see this scalloping around some queencells that are formed on the surface of comb. I reckon there are similarities with 'queen balling' but there is not the frenzy and tightness that occurs if they are balling. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 05:44:03 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Almond Pollination Fees, 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Tony & All, I am sure Tony's sources give an accurate pricing for their area of California but California Almond groves run for hundreds of miles and a million hives are needed. 600,000 hives are said to come from other states. Price fixing is against the law and supply and demand is the rule today in California. Tony said: Regarding Mr Norton's question on almond pollination prices According to one of my sources, 8+ frames are $62 and singles 5-6 frames(6 ave)are $48. My observations last year while on two trips to California with bees: I personally did not see any singles last year except for a percentage of singles beekeepers brought from out of state to put the boxes of deadouts on when moved into Almonds. I did notice that many California beekeepers run hives in one and a half boxes instead of two deeps ( and turn the hive entrances the wrong way on skids or is it we in the Midwest turn our entrances the wrong way?). All out of state hives I saw were in two deeps. All the hives of other beekeepers I dug through had plenty bees but little brood. Tony said: Hives are said to be up and down this year with some real small clusters. Brokers of bees have been telling out of state beekeepers *this* year that they can place hives with little clusters due to the number of beekeepers not pollinating in California this year ( my own experience). Last year my associates and I would eat breakfast everyday in the same restaurant as the Almond growers and talk. The growers will accept weak hives when they can not get strong hives but I assure you the growers know which beekeepers supply strong hives on a regular basis and move in and out of the Almonds quickly when asked. It is very hard to increase prices on the larger Almond growers because they are very understanding when you have got problems, Always pay on time and are bunch of friendly guys. They usually use many different beekeepers to pollinate their groves so all of you need to get together to increase prices and you have always got a beekeeper wanting a bigger share of the pollination pie so many beekeepers are not getting the high prices Tony's sources are talking about. The Almond growers I met tell you jokes, show pictures of family, pay for breakfast at times , are quick to critic weak hives or ruts left in groves and say you are driving too fast through the groves ( I was warned twice sternly) but they always change the subject when the subject of higher pollination fees come up. What good is a higher Almond fee if you can not collect your fee the larger Almond growers say. Then with a grin they tell of a poor Midwest beekeeper which did not get paid for his troubles the year before. Same story with most bee brokers. Forget making a honey crop off Almonds. The honey tastes terrible. You won't see a jar of honey for sale in California marked "Almond Honey" (or at least I didn't!). Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:13:10 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Bees in History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Chuck Norton" Often when searching for a queen I will gently puff (breath) upon a frame having a mass of clustered workers. Sometimes, although rarely, you can find her as the cluster of bees disperses. If a queen is found inside such a cluster, does it not imply some unusual situation? Queens cannot lay properly if semi-balled. I would wonder if the bees are not restraining that queen for some reason - which might be that she is old and besing superceded. If so, emoving the old queen will still leave the hive queen-right. I would check for eggs a few days later - before say releasing a valuable new queen. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:50:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Bogansky,Ronald J" Subject: Stay Informed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, Chuck Norton wrote: "World's most easily and most widely read beekeeping periodical, "Bee Culture". I suggest that those of you who do not have a copy of these articles should beg, borrow or go to the nearest library and check out" I know why Chuck wrote this statement, but for the life of me I don't know why he should have to. Anyone who intends to keep bees and does not subscribe to at least one of the periodicals is making a very foolish decision. Books become dated, Internet can be questionable (except BeeL of course), but periodicals carry the latest information that you need in order to be successful. I subscribed to Bee Culture, back then it was Gleanings, well before I poked my nose into my first hive. There are many good periodicals both in the US and abroad from which one can choose. The cost of these is minimal, compared to the knowledge they contain. A friend of mine spends more on lost golf balls in a year than I do on all my subscriptions. If you belong to a beekeeping organization (something else I think is a MUST) you usually get a discount on the subscription price that in some cases may cover the cost of the annual dues for the organization. Beekeeping is one of the few hobbies that just about anyone can do, requires a relatively small investment, and actually produces a product that can be sold, given as gift, or personally enjoyed. The cost of the periodical is a small price to pay for the pleasure of keeping bees. I know individuals that refuse to attend meetings or subscribe to periodicals, hide from the State Bee Inspector, and in general work pretty hard to stay uninformed. They usually show up on a rare occasion at a club meeting or worse yet call me or come knocking at my door with a ton of questions, usually the first one being "Why did all my bees die?". I am of the belief that we have a responsibility to the bees we keep. Part of that includes staying informed on the changing world of beekeeping. To quote George Imire " This is not you grand daddy's beehive". Bee Safe, Bee Well, But most of all Bee Informed! Ron Ron Bogansky Kutztown, (eastern) PA, USA + :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:55:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Almond Pollination Fees, 2004 While losing the month of Feb for 50 dollars or so per hive would probably be very counter productive for my eucalyptus locations, I could come up with 20 hives in other areas which could benefit from the Almond bloom. Is this number too small? Does anyone know how I would go about finding a small grower who only needs small amounts? I'm frankly not interested after spending so much money getting rid of mites to bring back my hives full of mite and beetles, and I'd like to keep my bees away from other hives. Thanks :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 11:13:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: Stay Informed Comments: To: BOGANSRJ@AIRPRODUCTS.COM Ronald penned: "I am of the belief that we have a responsibility to the bees we keep. Part of that includes staying informed on the changing world of beekeeping. To quote George Imire 'This is not you grand daddy's beehive'." "Bee Safe, Bee Well, But most of all Bee Informed!" "And what does this sort of thing show? That we always know less than we think, and that the bees are going to fool us over and over again." from Richard Taylor: Bee Talk, "Bee Culture", September, 1994. -Chuck :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 11:24:00 -0500 Reply-To: john.scott@trcoc.org Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Scott Subject: Re: Bees in History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Curtis Crowell wrote: "By following the swarm on the ground, and making a lot of noise (banging pots,or whatever) the beekeeper could maintain ownership and recover the swarm once it did land." It is interesting how traditions, folklore, etc. change over time, and/or differ in different regions of the country, etc. I did some interviews with my great aunt before she died a couple of years ago, and recorded some of her childhood memories growing up in Middle Tennessee (Cheatham County) after the turn of the century. She talked about remembering as a little girl someone coming down the road yelling, "There a swarm coming!" and that they all went out on the porch and started banging pans - to keep the swarm away! John Scott :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 11:34:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: magazines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I want to endorse what Chuck and Ron have said about the advisability of subscribing to a beekeeping magazine. I can't imagine why more beekeepers do not do so. We advertise monthly in both of the US magazines, and sometimes we can track some percentage of sales based on that advertising. I also keep a highly informal count on the number of beekeepers who belong to some of the bee clubs. Finally, we have some information on the number of catalogs mailed by some of the dealers. As close as I can tell, there are somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000 beekeepers in the US. The number who make an annual purchase from at least one dealer seems to be closer to 100,000 than 200,000. (I personally know beekeepers who take great pride in not having to make annual purchases from a dealer.) In speaking about the magazines, Chuck said "World's most easily and most widely read beekeeping periodical, "Bee Culture". Since the magazines use the US Postal Service for mailing, their subscription numbers are public information and as an advertiser I have to know there things. Unfortunately, Chuck is in error and the subscription list of ABJ is FAR larger than that of Bee Culture. But Bee Culture is certainly a fine magazine that all hobbyists and sideliners should subscribe to and one that I would not do without. The number of US beekeepers who subscribe to either magazine does not exceed 25,000, which is a relatively small percent of total beekeepers. Too bad. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 20:31:28 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Bees in History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Cushman wrote: > whereas the 'have not' clusters are more 'flying saucer' or 'galaxy' shaped. It would be interesting to keep a record of where queens were found - I might make that a project this year. Not so sure about the flying saucers . . . Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 20:51:07 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Beekeeping in Kerala MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just had a wonderful holiday in Kerala - one of the major honey producing states in India - working with cerana, mellifera and trigona in areas of outstanding natural beauty. If anyone is planning a trip to southern India do let me know, as I have excellent contacts who would welcome visits from beekeepers. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:17:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Hive configurations >>no real difference between brood boxes and honey supers. Also, it cuts down on the number of boxes/combs to extract; although it does increase weight per box. I cant imagine having to extract shallows. It would be almost twice the work. Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 07:47:14 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Almond Pollination Fees, 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm frankly not interested > after spending so much money getting rid of mites to bring back my hives > full of mite and beetles, and I'd like to keep my bees away from other > hives. Are the small hive beetles now established in California? Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:44:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: magazines Comments: To: Lloyd Spear It is not my intent to diminish Mr. Spear's statement that "the subscription list of ABJ is FAR larger than that of Bee Culture." I also appreciate Mr. Spear's kind comments. It should be acknowledged that Mr Spear also quoted my text correctly when he wrote, "World's most easily and most widely read beekeeping periodical, 'Bee Culture'." What he failed to do was to note that the article was premised as an opinion; maters as related to subscribers were not mentioned. Bee Culture publishes a "Rate Card" along with a kit titled "Advertising & Media Information" which gives a comphrensive analysis of the demographics associated with the magazine's distribution which in year 2000 placed its "readership to nearly 17,000 beekeepers" which included pass along readers. Not mentioned was the large amount of readers who do not subscribe to "Bee Culture" but connect to http://www.beeculture.com via the Internet. These folks connect to the Internet from all over the world, and that folks is as wide as it gets. You can not get more widely read than the entire World!! This is my opinion expressed here; and if carefully read, the text from which I was quoted was expressed as my opinion as well. Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:54:05 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: phil MOORE Subject: Re: 5.2 performance (was cell size in 1940's) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If you have any questions, let me know. > > allen > Allen, did you find the better improvement continue with drawn pierco frames or was the effect just over the establishment period? Regards Phil Moore :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 18:18:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Almond Pollination Fees, 2004 "Are the small hive beetles now established in California?" Not that I know of, but with the hundreds of thousands of hives coming through the state borders every year, I'd like as much isolation as I can get. My only mite loss last year was in an avocado ranch where there were two of us with bees. The farmer was tricky and I didn't learn there were two of us until his son mentioned it to me. I since found out the other guy lost his entire apiary, and while I don't the reason, I suspect his colonies crashed due to mites and infected mine. I lost the one hive and had to treat the others all over again. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:58:54 -0500 Reply-To: lhhubbell@johnstown.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leland Hubbell Organization: Tekoa Subject: Re: Bees in History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robin Dartington wrote: > If a queen is found inside such a cluster, does it not imply some unusual > situation? Queens cannot lay properly if semi-balled. I would wonder if > the bees are not restraining that queen for some reason - which might be > that she is old and besing superceded. Might not the 'unusual situation' be that the hive has been opened, disturbing the normal movement of the bees? It seems like a far reach that a cluster found in such fashion is 'restricting the queen' Leland :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:20:53 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy, As always, I am BLUNT. Who ever said the average supersedure queen is better than the average swarm queen has to be some kind of nut. Just ask any queen breeder, bee scientist, or bee researcher. George Imirie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:27:57 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Hive configurations Jerry said: > As Lloyd says, its a good option for hobby beekeepers because of > reduced weight. Many of our commercial folks use all deeps, so > that they always have a box for whatever's needed - no real > difference between brood boxes and honey supers. That's kinda scary, given the bizarre cocktail of miticides currently available to beekeepers. Without a tracking system (each box gets a number), I'd wonder if frames that held brood might be mistakenly used for harvested honey at some point. Just to contradict myself, I'm a very big fan of running 100% "mediums" (6 5/8"), simply because they are lighter, they reverse with ease, replacing any one comb with foundation does not present the bees with a major comb-drawing hurdle, all woodenware is "standard" ('one jig on the table saw, one jig to rule them all...'), and one can expand and compress brood nests in more graceful increments than one can with deeps. Yes, each super has its own unique letter-and-two-digits ID. (When I get beyond 2,600 boxes, I guess I add a 3rd digit...) As a last line of defense, I use Stroller spacers in the honey supers, so seeing slots for only 9 frames should stop even a sleepy or distracted person from mistaking a brood box for a honey box. That said, I also have a buncha "shallows" that are chopped down to serve as dedicated Ross Round supers. Why one has to use/make a non-standard super to make rounds still puzzles me. All that money for tooling the plastic molds, and Tom Ross never stopped and thought about standard woodenware sizes? Weird. jim (Saving $20 a month at Wal-Mart does not justify the loss of a middle-class job.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 20:56:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: 5.2 performance (was cell size in 1940's) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Allen, did you find the better improvement continue with drawn pierco frames > or was the effect just over the establishment period? That was as far as we followed things. allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 20:52:28 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Anyone heard of Degree-day research? Susi Wilson said: > Has there been research on "degree-days" to figure out when > various races of honeybees start brood? I've looked at this, and from what I've seen, I don't think that the queen pays attention to cumulative degree days. > The degree-day figures are used in gardening to figure things from > "weed emergence" dates to probable "pest hatch out" dates. These applications ARE valid, as plants and pests are subject to soil temperature. Bees, from what I've seen, are not. > Hours of daylight correlate somewhat with degree days, too. "Hours of daylight" are the correct track to follow. I read somewhere (I forget where and when) that there were experiments done to lengthen the "day" by putting lights controlled by timers in beehives with the specific goal of trying to get brood rearing going. What they found was that it was not the absolute length of the day that caused the brood rearing to start, but instead, the delta in daylight hours (the lengthening of the sunlight hours compared to the prior period). I recall that I wondered when I read this how they were able to light beehives without also heating them in the process, as most lightbulbs produce just as much, if not more, heat than light, much like many of the discussions here on Bee-L. :) If one wanted to test this oneself, the prices of the "super bright" light-emitting diodes have come down to the point where one COULD light beehives without heating them up. But I would not want to mess with nature in this regard. Raising brood "earlier" is often a waste of hive resources, as the bees cannot keep a large brood area warm in the sort of low temperatures one may have "early" in the season. I also live in Virginia, and I understand the concern about getting a good early spring build-up. The best crop of nectar we have is "early". The only reliable answer I have found is to run Carniolans. The only "problem" with Carnis is that their smaller fall/winter clusters scare the heck out of you, and then they build up so quickly that they nearly explode right out of whatever brood chamber configuration you thought was "enough" for whatever other breed of bee you were running. jim (Ask your pharmacist about potential side effects) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:36:57 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi George & all > Who ever said the average supersedure queen is better than the > average swarm queen has to be some kind of nut. Not wishing to stir up George's wrath or ruffle his 'horsefeathers', but it does depend on what features you are trying to propagate by breeding... Thare are some features like 'longevity' and 'supercedure' itself that occur in supercedure strains. These features are highly prized in AMM strains of bee. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:14:50 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Bees in History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter & all > It would be interesting to keep a record of where queens were found - I > might make that a project this year I reckon that noting of the polished, scallop shaped depressions, might bring forth some useful info... But I would not like to guess what :-) One thing I should have included in the previous post, I referred to the 'have queen' clusters as spherical, but a better descripion would be walnut shaped... I have thought that this might be merely a factor of a more or less uniform depth of bees coating a queen shape. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 06:34:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Almond Pollination Fees, 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Tim & All, I could come up with 20 hives in other areas which could benefit from the Almond bloom. Is this number too small? Certainly not. Until a person has traveled to California and seen the number of Almond trees in person the vastness of the trees is hard to apprieciate. Almond trees to not produce Almonds without pollination and many many small groves are owned by individuals with only 10-20 acres needing bees( or 10-20 beehives)! The small owners do all the work of maintaining the grove but hire the harvest done about like small orange grove owners do in Florida in the area I grew up. Tim asks: Does anyone know how I would go about finding a small grower who only needs small amounts? For a small grower in your area I would run an ad in your local paper. If you see a grove of 20 acres of Almonds without bee hives when the trees are about to bloom (like now) stop and knock on the owners door and inquire if he needs bees. I always give a jar of honey to the owner for the trouble. A small jar of honey can turn a frown on a land owners face to a smile . For larger amounts I would contact one of the people which are currently advertising for hives in Bee Culture or the American Bee Journal (but they may charge a fee). You might call and ask the big brokers regardless if a small grower has called in your area needing hives as they place the large growers hives first usually. . Tim said: I'm frankly not interested after spending so much money getting rid of mites to bring back my hives full of mite and beetles, and I'd like to keep my bees away from other hives. Opps! Pollination may not be for you. There are also a few problems which I will not go into besides the two you mentioned and most beekeepers are honest but if loss of all your hives from theft or accident are a consideration then pollination may not be for you. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:06:15 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Steve Rose Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dave > > Who ever said the average supersedure queen is better than the > > average swarm queen has to be some kind of nut. > > Not wishing to stir up George's wrath or ruffle his 'horsefeathers', but it > does depend on what features you are trying to propagate by breeding... > > Thare are some features like 'longevity' and 'supercedure' itself that occur > in supercedure strains. These features are highly prized in AMM strains of > bee. I hope you are right about the above. As a newbee I went to some trouble 12 months ago to purchase a supercedure strain and have tolerated their other vices in order to preserve this aspect of their behaviour. I hope to select in future from within my present strain to reduce things like defensiveness without losing the supercedure trait. My one worry was that late queens may have difficulty in finding a plentiful supply of drones which could compete for her. Fortunately I seemed to have plenty of drones throughout last summer and even found drones struggling through some of my mouse guards well into November this winter. I wonder if the habit of producing late drones comes hand in hand with the supercedure trait. I intend in the short term to make increase by the emergency impulse so as not to select for the swarming trait and ruin the years of selection carried out by the bees' previous keeper. Perhaps I'm "some kind of nut". Best wishes Steve Rose, Derbyshire, England :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:01:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Anne Frey Subject: Calderone, Mangum and Seeley to speak at SABA seminar 2/28 in Albany NY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Southern Adirondack Beekeepers Association’s 2004 seminar is approaching! Register by Feb. 13 for lower fee. SABA’s seminars are always worthwhile! Date and Time, Location: Saturday February 28, 2004, 9 AM-4:30 PM in Lecture Center One on the SUNY uptown campus in Albany, NY. Speakers and Topics: Dr. Nicholas Calderone, Associate Professor of Entomology and leader of honey bee research at Cornell University since 1996 will speak about "AFB: Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow." Dr. Wyatt Mangum, a frequent columnist for American Bee Journal and Bee Culture and well-known bee photographer and mathematician, will present "A Close Up and Intimate Look at Queen Cells" & "Debris Under a Screen Floor, an Indicator of Colony Condition: Experience from 100 Colonies." Dr. Thomas Seeley, Professor of Neurobiology and Behavior at Cornell, will teach us about "Forest Bees and Varroa Mites" & "House-hunting by Honey Bees." Dr. Seeley focuses his research on using honey bee colonies as model systems for studying functional organization at the group level. Cost: $25/person or $40/couple, if received by February 13 (check or money order). After February 13, cost is $35/person or $50/couple. Cost includes A.M. coffee and snacks. Attendees can buy lunches nearby. Vendor: Dr. Larry Connor’s Wicwas Press will be there with hundreds of books. Hotel: A “block” of discounted rooms is reserved for February 27 at the Marriott Fairfield Inn, just across Washington Ave. Please call by February 13 and mention "beekeeping” to get the discount. $74 + tax = $82.14 for non-smoking room with 2 queen size beds (regularly $99 + tax). Hotel has pool, whirlpool, and complimentary Continental breakfast. Marriott Fairfield 518-435-1800, #1383 Washington Ave., Albany, NY 12206 Contact: SABA, C/o Anne Frey, 4808 Skyline Dr., Delanson, NY 12053-3932 (518) 895-8744 AnneF@capital.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 07:28:04 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Almond Pollination Fees, 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Loading semi in blizzard yesterday update: The weatherman missed the snow amounts by eight inches. Four were predicted and we got a foot of *new snow* Which caused us numerous problems as the snow from Hell was supposed to quit about the time we started loading instead of turning to white out conditions and getting triple the amount of snow predicted. Yesterdays snow was the largest snow amount on record for the date and the largest single snowfall in our area in the last ten years. We started at noon and finnished at around eight last night. The driver which is hauling the load to California owns a fleet of trucks which specialize in hauling bee hives all over the U.S. His exact words: " I have spent a lifetime hauling bees and have pulled hives out of snow four feet deep in the Dakota's but loading a semi in a blizzard and whiteout conditions is a first!" Despite the miserable conditions I did not hear a single complaint from the driver, my partner or our two helpers! What we did and what we would do different next time: 1. We had the hives stacked and in place to load before the snow. 2. We covered the hives with plastic but although a good idea we had trouble standing on top getting the over a foot of snow off ( four inches from previous snow was allready on top. and the snow tended to cause the plastic to want to fall between the skids. We had to dig the front of each hive out to get at the skid. 3. We used a bobcat with bucket to try and keep the work area cleared of the piling up snow. 4. We had to chain the tires of the semi at the bee farm in order to get the semi into place and back to the main road. What we might have done different: 1.Took the hives to California last fall 2. waited for snow to stop and then pushed snow and loaded but driver was wanting loaded and on his way and snow was supposed to stop at noon. The driver joked about us having to bring food and fuel for his truck to his new home in a abandon rock quarry. 3. I would have brought my loader and we could have loaded hives from both sides which would have cut the load time by quite a bit. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Ps. I took slide pictures, pictures and digital pictures. The digital pictures were taken with my partners camera as mine had a dead battery so I have not seen the digital pictures yet but if all goes well we might get Allen to put a couple at his web site or perhaps others. I may send a picture for a front page of a bee mag and even write an article. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:38:41 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Steve & all > My one worry was that late queens may have difficulty in finding a > plentiful supply of drones which could compete for her. > I wonder if the habit of producing late drones > comes hand in hand with the supercedure trait. I should say first that I do have prior knowledge of the bees that Steve is talking about. First a 'plentiful' supply is not needed in this circumstance as the local mating that occurs in cold conditions only requires that the queen be fertilised by whatever is available. This 'new' queen may well only be a 'standby' and will probably lay alongside the old queen. Such laying in tandem can vary between a few days and a few years, but the colony continues to exist and may supercede several more times over ten years or so before a long distance 'outbreeding' mating is possible. One of the features of the AMM bee is the extreme lateness in a season when they will supercede, which helps to keep the stock reasonably pure and yes colonies that exhibit this trait sometimes retain many drones and sometimes produce late batches of drones. They will also retain a few drones from one season to the next, but I have no idea how viable these 'old men' are. http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/matingbehaviour.html and some of the pages linked from it discuss the cyclic nature of inbreeding, with occasional outbreeding that this strain of bee depends on for it's survival. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:30:47 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Imirie method MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Herve`, I NEVER said or wrote to switch boxes every 2 weeks!!!!! A queen likes to move UP. When the queen has lots of OPEN brood in the upper box and there is a lot of capped brood in the lower box, switch boxes. Forget any CALENDAR! If you can't bother to look at 4 frames in each box every week or so, you are LAZY. Better that you take up catching butterflies. I'm tired of people wanting to sit on their butt without EARNING their way into success. Damn the welfare system! George Imirie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:31:10 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Steve Rose Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dave and all > > http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/matingbehaviour.html > and some of the pages linked from it discuss the cyclic nature of > inbreeding, with occasional outbreeding that this strain of bee depends on > for it's survival. I should have guessed you would have pages of bumf on the subject. Thanks for the explanation and for pointing me to your website. I think I will stick to my guns and give these bees at least a few seasons to prove their value. Best wishes Steve Rose, Derbyshire :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 07:38:09 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: raising queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi George, >As always, I am BLUNT. > >Who ever said the average supersedure queen is better than the average >swarm >queen has to be some kind of nut. > I am blunt too. Anybody keeping bees should want a supersedure Queen over a swarm Queen, with a supersedure Queen half the workers do not want to leave, and the colony re-queens itself naturally. I guess only beekeepers who really want to keep their own bees would think this way. Give me a supersedure queen any day over a swarm queen. Anyone who would not want a supersedure queen over a swarm queen must be some kind of a nut. . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ Caucasian Bee Keeper, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ _________________________________________________________________ Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet Software maximize your online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:12:35 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Combs that smelled of PDB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Here is a chance for you to have a little laugh at my expense! I have just finished a page describing a comical incident that happened about 18 years ago... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/pdbcomb.html Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:59:24 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Imirie method MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Herve`, > I NEVER said or wrote to switch boxes every 2 weeks!!!!! > > A queen likes to move UP. When the queen has lots of OPEN brood in the upper > box > and there is a lot of capped brood in the lower box, switch boxes. > Forget any CALENDAR! George Imirie Hi George and All, George hit on the most important part of beekeeping. Pay attention to the bees.Do not get caught up in what the book or anything that might be told to you, that is fixed to time. What is happening in the box is what counts. I spend a lot of time in my bees.I can see many variations in the hive in the same yard. You are working with Nature. The Sun will not shine on April 1 st. every year. The more time you spend in the bees, the more you will learn. They are the teacher. Read and then look for yourself. Best Regards Roy Nettlebeck :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:59:40 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: Fw: Raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roger White=20 To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu=20 Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 8:56 PM Subject: Raising queens I thought that I would give my own opinion on the subject. I always = regard supersedure queens as inferior. They are always raised from a = failing/old mother and as such cannot be expected to have the physical = or genetic qualities of a queen in her prime that is used to produce = daughters. As breeder queens go, the difference between the daughters = raised from a two and three year old breeder queen are very obvious. = The daughters of three year olds are always of a lower qualtiy than the = two year olds. In human terms it is like expecting a quality baby from = a fifty year old woman - sometimes it is ok, but sometimes not! I = always replace supersedure and swarm queens with a good quality queen = that I've bred myself and mated it to selected drones in a mating = station - they have no equal from a human beekeeping point of view. By = this I mean that they should have all the characteristics I need to = produce a decent crop of honey with little extra input from me. Best regards Roger White Superbee Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:09:17 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Re: Imirie method In-Reply-To: <1de.1855d313.2d545657@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Herve`, > I NEVER said or wrote to switch boxes every 2 > weeks!!!!! I am afraid you are right. I check archives for a couple of minutes and could only find: " Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 19:47:11 EST I start REVERSING brood boxes in late January and continue that as needed until I super on April 15th. I may have to REVERSE 3-4 time during this period. [...] In February, perhaps you only have to reverse once, but as the hive builds population, you may have to reverse as often as every 7-8 days. " and " so REVERSING has to be done at the right time (not when you get around to it). The right time is when about 90% of the brood is all in the 2nd story and only 10% or less in the first story. You might have to reverse 2-5 times between now and April 15th depending on your queen, population, weather, and other variables. " > If you can't bother to look at 4 frames in each box > every week or so, you are > LAZY. > Better that you take up catching butterflies. Yes, I am, even more than you may think. I also caught butterflies but they are now flying too fast for me. > I'm tired of people wanting to sit on their butt > without EARNING their way > into success. > > Damn the welfare system! At least, I read enough to ask questions about things I misunderstood, it seems. I have been educated in a way that a priori I respect any one I do not know. This part of education is called politness. I have also been educated in a way that the first who brokes politness rules must not expect respect any more. Nevertheless, I was glad to learn from the experience you shared. Hervé Yahoo! Mail : votre e-mail personnel et gratuit qui vous suit partout ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:01:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Anna Browder Subject: Re: raising queens In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Unless you hive a swarm, what you have is the supersedure queen, right? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:32:31 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Bees in History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Leland Hubbell wrote: > Might not the 'unusual situation' be that the hive has been > opened, disturbing the normal movement of the bees? > > It seems like a far reach that a cluster found in such fashion is > 'restricting the queen' But bees do ball queens sometimes when they are disturbed - particularly after the introduction of a new queen. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:48:42 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keith Malone wrote: > I am blunt too. > Anybody keeping bees should want a supersedure Queen over a swarm Queen, > with a supersedure Queen half the workers do not want to leave, and the > colony re-queens itself naturally. Well said! Bees that supersede reduce the beekeeper's workload massively in the spring - enabling him to devote time to strain improvement rather than swarm control. I hope that I am now on this beneficial spiral. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:00:25 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Fw: Raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roger White wrote: 'I thought that I would give my own opinion on the subject. I always regard supersedure queens as inferior. They are always raised from a failing/old mother and as such cannot be expected to have the physical or genetic qualities of a queen in her prime that is used to produce daughters.' Not sure that I can agree with this. Surely the genetic characteristics will not change with age and the physical quality of the queen is down to the conditions under which she is raised, i.e. adequate nurse bees, good pollen supply etc. I cannot see that the age of the queen is very relevant - or am I missing something? Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:54:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: Fw: Raising queens In-Reply-To: <004c01c3ece3$634c1e10$b5939ac2@haris8cjgnhodj> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roger White wrote: >They are always raised from a failing/old mother and as such cannot be expected to have the physical or genetic qualities of a queen in her prime that is used to produce daughters. > While it is true that in some mammals that the age of the mother at the time of ovulation will have some effect on the incidence of genetic defects, can you explain this in the context of the honeybee. In other words - specifically how would a supercedure queen differ genetically from a swarm queen? Keith :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:48:23 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Fw: Raising queens In-Reply-To: <009b01c3ecf4$423d6100$68ac87d9@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My opinion on supersedure queens is as such, in a queen loss the bees select lava of varying ages some too old to be a good queen over 3 days old this queen emerges first then cuts all the good queens leaving a inferior queen to head the hive. Without beekeeper intervention that queen will not be as good as a swarm raised queen. As for selecting swarming traits you would have to do so for 25 or more years to see any differences in that trait. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 896 5247 > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 19:14:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: beekeeper Organization: none Subject: Re: Imirie method MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roy, I would like to applaud the tone of your comments concerning hive observation as the method of deterring the time to perform certain manipulations of the hive. They were meant to enlighten and open doors not shut them by putting up a wall. Beekeeping is a journey, not a stop at the end of a long trip-and not everyone takes the same route. Some ask questions and some don't. If one asks directions only to get their head bit off, soon the asking and the learning stops. Coleene :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:07:10 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: raising queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Peter & All, >I hope that I am now on this beneficial spiral. > I like the fact that the Russian strain seems to always have a supersedure Queen cell perpetually going in the brood nest and am hoping that this is a dominate trait. I would love to have available Apis m.m. to work with but to date have not been able to obtain. I am at present working with Caucasians and Russians, they seem to be very similar in their character. I would like to see a natural requeening of some colonies in the fall in the bees I keep. I hope to get caught up in this spiral too. . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ Caucasian Bee Keeper, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ _________________________________________________________________ Plan your next US getaway to one of the super destinations here. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:50:47 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Attention: Anna Browder If you have a MARKED queen, any unmarked queen in your colony is an "unknown", and maybe she mated with every nasty drone in the area. Obviously, I am a STRONG believer in MARKING YOUR QUEEN. I don't care how good your eyes are, you can not prove that the queen you see in your hive in July is the same queen that you saw in April; unless she is MARKED. I laugh when I hear all those stories about "my bees are pure Italians" which are the "best". When I ask "are your queens MARKED?" and the beekeeper says "no", then I ask about his virgin queens mating with those nasty old German bees in the woods just a mile away, or my Carniolans just 2 miles away. And if I lived in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, southern California, or southern Nevada, I would worry about my virgin queens mating with "killer bee" drones. The point to my reply is MARK YOUR QUEENS if you want to be a responsible beeKEEPER rather than just another beeHAVER. George Imirie Certified EAS Master Beekeeper Beginning my 72nd ear of beekeeping near Washington, DC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:34:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Problem: I need to recover a source of drones from an instrumentally inseminated breeder queens daughters I open mated. If I understand correctly the daughter queens I raised from the above II queen should be 100% pure to the source stock because the drones are haploid and no genetic crossing has taken place. Am I understanding correctly? Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 08:31:14 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Roger White Subject: Raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As I said in my first post on this subject and I thought that I had made = it clear from the comparison with a fifty year old woman. This is only my opinion and the result of observing things that happen = in many years of bee breeding. Yes, I do think that there is some sort = of degeneration in the genetic material as time goes by - possible = causes could include exposure to chemicals or radiation or just simply = the effects of old age. The genetic material of the queen might not be = the only one affected - they are also carrying the sperm around with = them. I wouldn't expect either that the ova of an old queen (eg. = 3-4years old) would be endowed with as much vigour as an ova from a = 18-24 month old queen. So, I repeat - the daughters raised from old = queens are NEVER able to compare with the daughters of a queen in her = prime. Queens that are used for grafting from should also be held in a = nucleus of not more than 4 frames. If grafts are made from a queen in = full lay in a large colony there are problems with vigour.=20 Best regards Roger White Superbee Cyprus. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:14:17 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: raising queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Anna & All, You can have Swarm, supersedure, emergency, grafted, A.I., I.I., open mated and possibly a few other types of Queens. . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ Caucasian Bee Keeper, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ _________________________________________________________________ Optimize your Internet experience to the max with the new MSN Premium Internet Software. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:45:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The thread of swarm vs. supersedure queens is a perennial topic that will probably go on forever. A swarm queens does not necessarily mean a queen that has left with a swarm, it can mean a queen that is raised by a hive that is under swarm conditions. It is precisely that sort of condition that breeders try to mimic when setting up cell builder colonies; lots of bees in a congested brood chamber. It is likely that a cell builder colony, if left to its own devices, would swarm! The beekeeper "artificially" creates this environment by shaking extra bees into the colony (or possibly shaking a double brood chamber into a single), and giving the colony mostly sealed brood so there are no developing larvae to be fed. Into this cell builder is introduced the grafted larvae. The sometimes, usually queenless cell builder has little brood to care for because the brood is mostly capped, there isn't much need to forage because there is nowhere to store the nectar, and in fact the ONLY thing constructive for the bees to do is feed, feed, feed the grafted developing queens. What determines the BEST queens is their diet while developing. If a colony raising a supersedure queen is able to feed the developing queen as well as a swarm colony will (regardless of how you define a swarm colony), then the supersedure queen will be as good as the swarm colony. If the supersedure colony is run down, possible because the reigning queen hasn't keep populations as high as the it woulda/coulda/shoulda been, then the supersedure queen may not be as well nourished as a queen developing in a swarm colony. The best queens (genetic background issues aside) are the ones that are best nourished during their development. Supersedure vs. Swarm colonies is a red herring. It all comes down to diet; how well the developing queen is nourished. As far as which camp is nuts, in my book calling someone a nut based on what they do, say or believe is counterproductive. Behave boys. Aaron Morris - thinking Almond joys vs. Mounds; sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 22:07:02 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Imirie method MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Herve, I appreciate your diligence, and your friendly reply. I am always at your disposal if I can help. Have a fine 2004! George Imirie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:04:08 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alaska beekeeping is sure different that stateside. Find for me one bee scientist or bee researcher that will agree with you, and then I want a scientific explanation from him. Your statement that half the bees want to stay with the queen is a GOOD reason not to have that queen. Bees are NOT like we humans who endear our mother. Bees destroy their mother queen if she can't produce. Further, science as shown that bees descending from constant superseded queens are inferior, disease prone, and lose all of their genetic good qualities in favor of the "wild animal" approach. This might have been great in the 17th century when bees were skep kept and each year a skep was sacrificed to gain perhaps 10-15 pounds of honey. However, like all things change, the hobbyist beekeeper who never moves his bees can expect over 100 pounds of honey/colony in Maryland and 200+ in the Dakotas or Florida. Some migratory beekeepers who follow the nectar flow up the East Coast starting in Florida and ending in Maine might make over 500 pounds/colony in a season and requeen it with a PURCHASED queen twice it 12 months.. Further, it has been WELL PROVEN by bee scientists that swarming almost never happens with a VERY YOUNG queen, because she is so capable of producing enough queen pheromone that inhibits worker bees from building queen cells that she can have a colony of 40,000-60,000 bees and no swarm cells. However, when that same queen is just 12 months old, she has lost much of her pheromone, and swarming becomes a real problem for the beekeeper, and GOD FORBID even talking about a 2 year old queen. Richard Adee is the largest beekeeper in the U. S., owning 60,000 (60 thousand) colonies. He REQUEENS EVERY COLONY EVERY FALL. Is he crazy, or have good reason? I have talked with him, and he says a swarm totally destroys the financial return of a colony, so he requeens every fall to prevent swarming during a nectar flow, because YOUNG queens just don't swarm, assuming an intelligent beekeeper is exercising PROPER bee MANAGEMENT. Keith, I am 85, a retired scientist, beginning by 72nd year of successful beekeeping, trained by Dr. James I Hambleton, Chief U. S. government Apiculturist from 1922 to 1966. In the lousy honey production state of Maryland, my birthplace, which only averages 29 pounds/colony/year, my 135 colonies averaged 132 pounds. Now, disabled by strokes and can't walk, I take care of my 20 colonies from the back of my golf cart, and still make over 100 pounds/colony of mostly extracted honey and still make 50-100 square sections primarily for ME and a few good friends. I am BLUNT, not by nature, but found that no one ever paid any attention to nice sayings; but rather "woke up", paid attention, listened to you, challenged you, and then they were mine to TEACH and INFORM. Even though I strongly disagree with you, I appreciate your reply and feelings. Have a fine 2004! George Imirie, Retired Scientist Certified EAS Master Beekeeper Beginning my 72nd year of beekeeping around the nation's capitol of Washigton,DC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:33:24 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Steve Rose Subject: Re: Fw: Raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Charlie and all > My opinion on supersedure queens is as such, in a queen loss the bees > select lava of varying ages some too old to be a good queen I agree that they do this but my understanding is they often hold the first queen in her cell and keep her there as an insurance policy in case a later and better queen fails to develop. I was taught to squash the oldest queen cells in any case. However I don't understand what all this has to do with supersedure queens which develop in anything but a queen loss situatuation. > As for selecting > swarming traits you would have to do so for 25 or more years > to see any differences in that trait. The previous keeper of my bees had been selecting against swarming stock since 1968 and was still careful to avoid the trait last year when he gave up beekeeping from ill health. I think he thought he could undo all his good work very quickly if he dropped his guard. I might change my mind as I gain more experience but it seems clear to me that I am privileged to have obtained this stock and feel honour bound to continue his work. Best regards Steve Rose, 2nd year beekeeper, Derbyshire :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:38:46 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Fw: Raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Roger & all In a previous post that replied to George, I made the distinction between 'supercedure' and 'emergency'. Which needs further amplification... > They are always raised from a failing/old mother and as such cannot be > expected to have the physical or genetic qualities of a queen in her prime Degeneration in genetic material due to age is possible, due to mutation by radiation etc., but will only affect a small number of eggs... The rest will carry pristene genes. As far as the physical state of an elderly queen goes, I reckon it is more to do with numbers of eggs such a queen can produce rather than any physical defects in the eggs themselves. > The daughters of three year olds are always of a lower qualtiy than the > two year olds If this were true then you would expect a similar progressive degredation in years four, five and six. How is it then that you can keep a breeder queen with reduced laying space for five, six or even seven years and she still produces offspring in her last year that do not exhibit any defects? Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:47:13 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Fw: Raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Charlie said... > in a queen loss the bees > select lava of varying ages some too old to be a good queen By definition a 'queen loss' is an 'emergency' situation, not supercedure! > As for selecting swarming traits you would have to do so for 25 or > more years to see any differences in that trait. The trouble here is that centuries of 'skep' beekeeping have selected swarmy stocks, purely due to the way skeps were managed. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:03:16 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob Your instrumentally inseminated breeder queen will produce drones that are haploid, but these drones will not be identical to the original drone line that you seek. These drones will only have their mother's genes. The best you can achieve is that the instrumentally inseminated queen's daughters will contain a portion of the original drone line genes and thus the drones of these open mated daughters will also contain that portion. The size of the 'portion' depends on how many alleles were identical in the original instrumentally insemiated queen and the original drone line. I hope I understood your question correctly! Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 06:57:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Fw: Raising queens In-Reply-To: <402419B7.5080809@cox-internet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1AF97609; boundary="=======6378673C=======" --=======6378673C======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-1AF97609; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >My opinion on supersedure queens is as such, in a queen loss the bees >select lava of varying ages some too old to be a good queen over 3 days >old this queen emerges first then cuts all the good queens leaving a >inferior queen to head the hive. Emergency cells and supercedure cells are different. Supercedure cells are started from an egg, with the intention of replacing the old queen. Emergency cells are started from a larvae, after the old queen has been lost. The above post seems to say they are one and the same. Mike --=======6378673C=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 07:02:02 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Queens that have been marked can be cleaned by the bees. You need to clip a wing. Many of my observation hives have the originally marked queen with the clip wing but the marks have been removed. We use a v cut or an angle cut on the wing. Michael Housel Orlandobee :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 08:22:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Fw: Raising queens In-Reply-To: <004c01c3ece3$634c1e10$b5939ac2@haris8cjgnhodj> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a lot in the archives on supercedure and swarm queens. There are differences in what you mean by supercedure and swarm queens since there is controlled supercedure and swarms as well as "natural" supercedure and swarms. Unless the method is defined, it is unlikely that this discussion will go anywhere since we will not be talking about the same thing. For example, supercedure by splits in the spring is a good queen rearing method. Supercedure by queen failure in the fall is a disaster here in Maine. One is controlled, the other is not. I would take a natural swarm queen in the spring over a natural supercedure queen in the fall and vice versa. A good friend of mine once got in a heated discussion over the differences between the Psychology of Jung and Young. I think we are moving in that direction. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 07:07:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, On reading my own question this morning I am not sure I asked the question correctly last night so asking differently. Problem: I need to recover a source of drones from an instrumentally inseminated breeder queens daughters I open mated. Am I thinking correct : All of mated queens I raised from the above II breeder queen will produce drones 100% pure to the source stock because the drones are haploid and no genetic crossing has taken place. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 07:41:59 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: reversing (was Imirie method) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello George & All, George said: > A queen likes to move UP. When the queen has lots of OPEN brood in the upper box and there is a lot of capped brood in the lower box, switch boxes. There are a few subjects which come up on Bee-L I try to avoid because there are many different opinions on those subjects between beekeepers and the best you can do is state your position and eventually the subject changes. These are important however so new beekeepers on Bee-L can see both sides and choose the path they want to *try* in their own hives. As to reversing quite a bit has been written in the past and *beekeepers* opinions vary on its importance. Dr. Farrar did many experiments and wrote about reversing. My own experiments ran years ago based on the work of Farrar produced the same conclusions as Farrar. Reversing is a useful tool to gain maximum brood production from the hive and prevent swarming. The young queen will move down and lay eggs as easily as she moves up in most cases ONCE THE BROOD NEST HAS EXPANDED ENOUGH THE GAP BETWEEN THE TWO BOXES IS BEGINNING TO BE FILLED WITH BEES. My tests showed a reluctance for the queen to cross the gap by herself going up or down. Farrar figured out a way to get the queen to move to the next box without reversing and the method works. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:57:20 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jean-Marie van Dyck Subject: Re: Raising queens In-Reply-To: <001f01c3ed44$18a8caa0$959e9ac2@haris8cjgnhodj> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all ! Seems you're right, Roger ! ... Interesting to read Brother Adam's opinion on this question ... in his book "Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey, 4th edition (1987) Northern Bee Books, Hebden Bridgr, West Yorkshire. page 89 we find ... About the " Care of breeders " ... So far I have dealt with the theoretical and practical aspects on which our efforts in improving the honeybee are based. I can now turn to the question of the raising of queens and the main considerations which govern our endeavours in this vitally important branch of bee-keeping. A lifetime's experience has left me in no doubt that any interference and lack of care during the period of development from the egg until the queen is mated and attained full maturity will inevitably have an injurious bearing on her potential performance, vitality and longevity. Any serious injury will manifest itself in a sudden failure or premature supersedure; less serious damage may merely impair her laying abilities. However, a reduction in the laying powers will in reality often prove a greater drawback from the economic point of view than a premature loss of queens. I have found that a queen which emerges in an incubator is never as good as one which spends her first few hours in her normal environment - tree in the midst of a colony, even if only a small one. The difference is perhaps not obviously apparent, but it is there. So also a queen which has been caged for any length of time is seldom, if ever, as good as one which has never been confined - the extent of the injury depends on the age and condition of the queen when she is caged. Clearly any artificial devices in queen-rearing are open to objection and should be avoided. I have dealt at length on the care we exercise in the choice of breeder queens. The next task is to ensure that a breeder is in the best possible physical condition to provide at the appropriate moment the eggs required for the raising of queens, and that these eggs are endowed with the highest measure of vitality. To ensure this the breeder queens are kept in small colonies, occuping no more than three or four Dadant combs. Their laying powers are thus restricted, which ensures the eggs they produce are endowed with the stamina needed and also prevents the premature exhaustion of the breeders. I have now and again made use of a breeder heading a fully established colony, but found without exception that the queens raised from such eggs were never as good as from those whose laying had been restricted. Apparently a queen that is producing perhaps 2,000 eggs within twenty-four hours does not possess the vitality as one which lays only a few hundred each day. Indeed, it could not well be otherwise. The same applies to queens which are being superseded - a sure indication that their life's strength is at an end. As a matter of fact, I have never come across a supersedure queen whose performance equalled those raised from eggs derived from a breeder in her prime and whose laying abilities have been restricted in the way I have indicated. I am aware this sounds all very unorthodox and contrary to the commonly held views, but our comparative tests leave no doubt on this point. Indeed, for many years now we have replaced any supersedure queens found in the honey-producing colonies in the spring. In the breeding of domestic stock and plants of economic value the utmost care is taken to ensure that the parents are in every case in the peak of condition. No one would consider breeding from an animal or plant suffering from a debility or defect of one kind or another. Bee-keepers, on the other hand, have paid hitherto little or no regard to the condition of the queens used as breeders. Indeed, supersedure queens are almost universally considered as superior notwithstanding the fact that they are the offspring of a mother who has been in a failing condition. The nurture of supersedure queens cannot admittedly be surpassed in regard to quantity and quality, but this cannot offset the inherent deficiency in the egg, which will inevitably come to light when such queens are put to objective comparative tests. This holds equally goad in the case of queens during the time they are under stress, laying to their maximum capacity, and additionally substantiated by the fact that the progeny of the superlative prolific queens are almost invariably short-lived." Jean-Marie Van Dyck Namur University, Belgium. Homage page to Brother Adam (with a lot of original articles) : http://www.fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage.html :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:04:26 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: Icon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Their are 16 states in the US that has he honey bee as their state insect. How many states would be interested in getting it made the US insect? Russ Dean :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:38:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Imirie method >>If you can't bother to look at 4 frames in each box every week or so, you are LAZY. No, it not a case of lazyness, just a case of pratical beekeeping management. I manage my hives so I dont need to "look at 4 frames in each box every week or so". That kind of hive work would be impossible for my beekeeping operation. I dont think there is sutch a thing as a lazy beekeeper, just by the verynature of the business. Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:18:39 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ron & Eefje Subject: Raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While we are discussing the raising of queens......... This week in a meeting with local beekeepers for just a queen raising project, I heard one beekeeper claim that queens cut themselves from the queen cells with somekind of horn like device or their head, as opposed to the nibbling or eating away of the wax by the other colony members. I had not heard of this before, is it true? Are there any clearifying pictures around that show this? from Ron PE2RVM/SM6WHN Snartorp - Sweden :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:50:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: raising queens In-Reply-To: <000001c3ed7b$e27b5640$43bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All Queens raised from the source of the drones you desire will produce the drones you desire but it ends there. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 896 5247 Bob Harrison wrote: >Hello All, > >On reading my own question this morning I am not sure I asked the question >correctly last night so asking differently. > > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 08:02:43 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Fw: Raising queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Charlie & All, >My opinion on supersedure queens is as such, in a queen loss the bees >select lava of varying ages some too old to be a good queen over 3 days >old this queen emerges first then cuts all the good queens leaving a >inferior queen to head the hive. The type Queen you are referring to here is an emergency Queen not a supersedure or swarm Queen. Although what you state may be true in the case of colony needing to replace a lost Queen if a Beekeeper forces a colony to develop emergency Queens correctly quality Queens can be produced. Jay Smith author of "Better Queens" describes an excellent method for producing quality queens from emergency impulse. There are exceptions to rules. What you propose is the bees raising the Queen but a beekeeper can raise emergency Queens that are just as superior as any commercial breeder. A beekeeper can cut the runt Queen off at the pass by simply entering the hive at day five of Queen development and cutting all capped Queen cells out leaving only uncapped cells. . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ Caucasian Bee Keeper, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ _________________________________________________________________ Click here for a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 08:29:10 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: raising queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi All, >And if I >lived >in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, southern California, or southern Nevada, I >would >worry about my virgin queens mating with "killer bee" drones. The point to >my >reply is MARK YOUR QUEENS if you want to be a responsible beeKEEPER rather >than just another beeHAVER. > this is pure dogma and not everybody agrees with it. A person could also say someone that is always replacing queens with someone else's queens from breeders is a beehaver too because he is only having someone else's bees for a while until it is replaced. Having those bees only for a while. You could say that those who raise and breed their own bees are keeping bees. >I laugh when I hear all those stories about "my bees are pure Italians" >which >are >the "best". When I ask "are your queens MARKED?" and the beekeeper says >"no", >then I ask about his virgin queens mating with those nasty old German bees >in >the woods just a mile away, or my Carniolans just 2 miles away. > If they perform correctly who cares if they are mongrels. Most breeders call yellow bees Italians and black bees carniolans even though Italians can be any color from black to yellow. you could have a carniolan that is really an Italian. . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ Caucasian Bee Keeper, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ _________________________________________________________________ Check out the great features of the new MSN 9 Dial-up, with the MSN Dial-up Accelerator. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:56:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Milt Lathan Subject: History of bees in the New World? Is there a good book on the history of bees in North America? I know the native Americans called them "White Man's Fly" - but who actually brought them here? And How? Just shut them up in a skep for the long boat trip? I wonder - is there any remnant of those pioneer bees still around today? In fact, are the bees in Britain still related to their black bees of old? Any suggested reading? Thanks. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:49:43 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Re: reversing (was Imirie method) In-Reply-To: <001001c3ed80$2a54c060$43bc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Farrar figured out a way to get the queen to move > to the next box without > reversing and the method works. Unfortunately, I do not have his book. Would you accept to describ both his method and yours about this particular point ? With regard to inspect some frames every week or so, it is not such a trouble in spring. I insepected 10 frames each week all the season my first year of beekeeping. But I felt my enthousiasm was really too invasive. I cut down inspection to some middle frames every 2 weeks or so, depending on the season, depending on hives behaviour. But such brood inspection quickly become harassing when there are 3 or 4 deep supers on the two brood chambers. After late June or early July, I am very reluctant to play with brood frames for that reason. Hervé Yahoo! Mail : votre e-mail personnel et gratuit qui vous suit partout ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:01:15 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Fw: Raising queens In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi ALL We are cutting fine lines that the bees will not cut. Bees consider ALL Supersedures Emergency. Where as Swarm raised queens are not. Also in nature there are always exceptions to the rules. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 896 5247 > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:08:07 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jean-Marie van Dyck Subject: Re: Raising queens In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Interesting lecture according this subject : moreover about the drones lines ! on http://www.beesource.com/pov/osterlund/bucprinc.htm other adresse, same article (european database) http://www.fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage/artcl/EO99princBAen.html Jean-Marie Van Dyck Namur University, Belgium. Homage page to Brother Adam (with a lot of original articles) : http://www.fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage.html :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:23:24 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: SCREEN BOTTOM BOARDS IN WINTER MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Waldemar, Not only do I totally agree with Lloyd, but here, just 10 miles north of Washington, DC, we don't have too much snow much years. However, we do see temperatures down to 10° and wind. I have all my colonies on screened bottom boards for 6 years. They sit on 12"x16" cinder block. so they are 8 inches off the ground. I don't have any winter losses, but I have STRONGLY preached an upper entrance cut in the inner cover for well over 40 years. Ventilation in the winter is extremely important whereas COLD weather, even -40° does NOT kill healthy bees. Read Dr. Southwicks work on confining bees for 30-60 days at temperatures as low as -80°, and over 90% of all the tested colonies survived. I hope I have helped. George Imirie, retired scientist Certified EAS Master Beekeeper Beginning my 72nd year of beekeeping near Washington, DC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:44:30 -0500 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Imirie method George said: > A queen likes to move UP. When the queen has lots of > OPEN brood in the upper box and there is a lot of capped > brood in the lower box, switch boxes. > Forget any CALENDAR! Has anyone ever done a side-by-side comparison on this specific point? My problem is that lots of people don't do all the reversing George advocates, and despite poking into many people's hives, I've NEVER seen a lowest brood chamber without at least some spring brood in any hive, anywhere. So apparently, somehow, the queen can and does "move down". If not, there would be lots of easy-to-find queens in spring, as they would all be invariably found in the uppermost box. This would make spring requeening a snap, even for novices. Also, it should be clear that a classical feral hive in the standard-issue tree cavity would never be "reversed", and has a clear and unambiguous "top" beyond which additional comb cannot be built. What would the queen do then? I can't say that an observation hive would be a fair testbed for such a subject, but anyone can look at the locations of eggs, sealed brood, open brood, and such in their own hives, and note the time delay between each cluster of eggs laid in each frame of each box. I'm going to bother to harass a few hives with the more intense "inspections" required to answer this question, but I'd like to see a few other beekeepers do the same, so that we can compare notes. With enough independent contributions, one can reach a consensus about common fact, rather than having only one or two views in conflict. Anyone in? And yeah, sure this is "publishable science" that everyone can put their names on. One does not need a PhD to look at brood chambers and estimate "equivalent frames" of empty, laid egg, open brood, sealed brood, and hatching brood. Interested parties can send me an e-mail. jim (Aut agere aut mori!) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:01:00 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: History of bees in the New World? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit St. Augustine, Florida was attempted to be settled in the 1520s. Grapevines are still there from the original plantings. The stock is the size of a medium tree. Cattle was released and the Indians would bring them back from the grass lands of the interior area of Florida. Honey bees were with this lost settlement- I have been told. I have not read the diary of the Governor, Bradshaw(I think). This means the first bees of this settlement would be from Spain. Madoc 1170, Irish prince, that came to the Pensacola, Florida area. This was in 1170ad and Indian records bring the date up 300 years. The built a rock wall in the Chattanooga, Tennessee area. Moved north to the Ohio River falls area were a final battle with the Cherokee Indians left few living. They buried the Armor at this area and mixed with the Mandan Indians and moved west. Blue eyed, breaded, white skinned, and know for there spirit(soul). Bible and language hand downs relate to Irish time of round boats that the Mandan used. A second group of 120 families brought all kinds of supplies and I have not found the ships logs for bees. Bees at that time were with the Monks of the church. 10-14,000 years ago with the Ice Age drawing the ocean shores down a movement of whit Northern Japanese or Southern Korea moved alone the shores of western North America. They were in the Great Lakes Georgian Bay in 10-14,000. This could also bring in a natural movement of honey bees into the America. None of the accounts bring the Columbus time movement of bees from the English. Point in this is that some DNA really needs to be done to set Honey Bees in North America before Columbus. Then yes it should be the National Insect. Michael Housel Orlandobee :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:19:01 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: State Apiary Registrations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Both Bob and Jerry, My mentor who introduced me to beekeeping in 1932, Dr. James I. Hambleton was Chief Apiculturist of the FEDERAL government from 1922-66 here in Maryland, now the Beltsville Bee Lab. He personally announced and started state bee inspections all over the U. S. in an effort to destroy AFB. In 1922 it was estimated that one-third of al the colonies in the U. S. had AFB, and the advent of the automobile and truck and building of roads was dramatically the spread of AFB. Maryland began state bee inspection in 1922 by state paid employees at NO costs to the beekeeper. Every colony in Maryland has to be inspected at least every 3 years, even commercial operations of 1000 colonies. No colony can enter or leave the state without an inspection. The INSPECTOR has the legal right to come on your property WITHOUT NOTICE and inspect your bees. If he tries to stop you, prevent inspection, or hides his bees, he is subject to sheriff search and legal prosecution. This is not often done, but a few have been jailed for failure to comply. If AFB in a colony by the inspector, the bees are IMMEDIATELY destroyed even if the beekeeper is not home. The woodenware is sealed up by the inspector, the beekeeper notified, and the beekeeper has a choice of paying for its sterilization in Maryland's Ethylene Oxide chamber, burning it, or boiling it in lye. For years and years, Maryland has enjoyed one of the lowest AFB rates in the country, about 1% of all inspected colonies. Inspection is the BEST FRIEND a beekeeper can have, and it sure badly hurts those mavericks who don't give a damn about their neighbor's bees. We officers of the 13 State beekeeper associations STRONGLY support bee inspection, and we all REPORT anybody owning beehives to the bee Inspection Office. Like all states, Maryland overspent its budget on some damn welfare program a few years ago, and of course the legislature cut back on the salaries pa id to our six inspectors. Maryland beekeepers reacted in strength, and now every year, we beekeepers DONATE money to our inspection service to maintain inspection, and most of us campaign strongly against those legislators who voted to cut back of bee inspection. I am very proud of "crucifying" the jerk from my county who voted for bee inspection cutback after I went to his office and detailed the value of honey bee pollination to our human food supply, and this smart ass lawyer replied, we can always import honey if need be and don't have to have bees that sting our Maryland citizens. It is things like this that keep scrapping like an 18 year old when I am in my 80's. My friends call me General Patton, and I am proud of that. Due to strokes, I have difficulty both walking and talking, but I can still vent my wrath, compliment my friends, and TEACH good beekeeping with my PINK PAGES. 'Nough Said - no doubt too much George Imirie, retired scientist Certified EAS Master Beekeeper Starting my 72nd year of successful beekeeping just 20 miles from the WHITE HOUSE :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::