From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 09:39:03 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.0 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8795748FE5 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SEFvLi013111 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:35:36 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0504B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 63365 Lines: 1397 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:11:42 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Vs: Re: [BEE-L] Vs: Re: [BEE-L] Package Bees and Oxalic Acid. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Mike: If you're going to the trouble of spraying, I would > recommenc Sucrose octonoate. It has the same terminal > effects on the varroa but does not have any > detrimental effects on the honey bees or subsequent > hive growth. Yes I might use it If I would be spraying. - I use oxalic by dribbling ( dropping sugar / oxalic solution on the bees) No need to pull out frames, the whole process takes about 30 seconds/ hive. We have not seen noticeable bad effects from oxalic when used properly. (Data of hive strenghts from 3 years) But you must not overdo it ! If Sucrose actonoate would be on the market here in Europe I would like to try it, but I doubt how much it would be used here. Very few use oxalic here with spraying because dribbling is so much less work. But as far as I know about Sucrose actonoate it should bee a good one to treat swarms. Ari Seppälä Central Finland :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 05:29:24 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Package Bees and Oxalic Acid. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ... I use oxalic by dribbling (dropping sugar / oxalic solution on > the bees)... We have not seen noticeable bad effects from > oxalic when used properly. (Data of hive strenghts from 3 years) > But you must not overdo it ! Have you any experience with applying oxalic more than once in the fall by dribbling (also called drizzling)? I heard some rumours that more than one treatment per generation of bees could have bad effects, but nothing very certain in that regard. I had also heard that multiple treatments by evaporation did not have bad effects. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:02:20 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Vs: Re: [BEE-L] Package Bees and Oxalic Acid. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit allen: > Have you any experience with applying oxalic more than once in the fall by > dribbling (also called drizzling)? I heard some rumours that more than one > treatment per generation of bees could have bad effects, but nothing very > certain in that regard. > > I had also heard that multiple treatments by evaporation did not have bad > effects. Being non -native English speaker I might be wrong with my dribbling. What would be the exact right term for treatments with oxalic in sugar solution ? Not sprayed, but dropped on bees as small drops from the top of the hive( I use 50 ml plastic syringe without needle). Allen is right, oxalic used this way will kill bees if used twice during the fall. I would say based on my few mistakes in notes that hives treated twice in fall had 30 % less bees in spring than normal. I have heard stories that 20 - 40 % of the double treated hives died during winter. For some reason no one wants to make a study about this in large scale :). But so many people have tried that I feel 100 % sure to say that double treatments in fall should not be done. Effect on bees does not have to do about the generations, because we have trials going on with double treatments. Once in the fall when last brood has emerged ( November) and again in spring maximum of 2 weeks after the cleansing flight ( early April). Exactly same adult bees in the hive at both times. At this time bees are only starting to generate brood. Average hives have capped brood area that can be covered by one open hand. We try to see if the varroa stays in control by only these treatments. The figures from first year seem fine. The Danes have also tried fall - spring treatments and they also say that colonies have same populations when compared to untreated ones. I admit that this kind of treatment quite often kills 20 - 30 bees immediately after the treatment. This can be seen by the entrance next morning. Evaporation does not affect the same way. It can be done on weekly basis during fall. But we have only experience from 3 - 4 evaporation treatments per hive during fall . The last one should be after all brood had emerged. Ari Seppälä Finland :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:01:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Excessive quotes in BEE-L submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Guidelines for BEE-L Submissions (http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm) 1. Do not include excessive quotes of previous submissions. If you must quote previous postings, include only what is necessary to make your point. Submissions that include the entirety of previous posts will be rejected without comment or notice. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:29:54 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mea McNeil Subject: Re: Free Bees In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed S. Wilson's offer is a generous demonstration of an attitude I have experienced in the beekeeping community. Thanks for being there. Mea (Yesterday a young man with an icechest full of bees called to find out how to become a beekeeper. I offered him a super to put them in. "Sounds complicated," he said, not having heard the half of it.) > I would be happy to give two free splits and mentoring to a prospective >Beekeeper. I know there are many of us who would do the same. > I'm in the middle of VA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:11:42 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: Vs: Re: [BEE-L] Vs: Re: [BEE-L] Package Bees and Oxalic Acid. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Mike: If you're going to the trouble of spraying, I would > recommenc Sucrose octonoate. It has the same terminal > effects on the varroa but does not have any > detrimental effects on the honey bees or subsequent > hive growth. Yes I might use it If I would be spraying. - I use oxalic by dribbling ( dropping sugar / oxalic solution on the bees) No need to pull out frames, the whole process takes about 30 seconds/ hive. We have not seen noticeable bad effects from oxalic when used properly. (Data of hive strenghts from 3 years) But you must not overdo it ! If Sucrose actonoate would be on the market here in Europe I would like to try it, but I doubt how much it would be used here. Very few use oxalic here with spraying because dribbling is so much less work. But as far as I know about Sucrose actonoate it should bee a good one to treat swarms. Ari Seppdld Central Finland :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:42:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Allen Barrett Subject: Shook Swarm Varroa Treatment MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; reply-type=response; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've asked about this once already, but got no response so I thought I would clarify it a bit more. I've researched the "Hive Rotation Management" method and am very impressed with it. I'm going to give it a go next year...if all goes well. What I'm curious about is what I saw in a video while doing my research. The video showed shook swarms (inside boxes with wire screen sides) being taken into the bee shed, placed on white paper, and being sprayed with something that was being simply called "varroa treatment". They used a regular hand pump sprayer. The video then cut to the next day where they were removing the shook swarms from the bee shed and counting the varroa that had fallen off during the night...presumably because of the treatment. I'm curious as to what that sprayed on treatment could have been and whether or not it's available/legal in the US. At present, the only official treatment I'm familiar with is Apistan...and that in strips. If anyone knows what this could have been I'd be very interested in knowing. Thanks. :) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 18:19:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Coleene Subject: Auction with Beekeeping Equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LeavesJust a quick note-Tomorrow in Dimondale, Michigan there is an auction that has beekeeping equipment for sale including a 6 frame electric, stainless steel extractor, just in case anyone is interested. The aucton is being handled by Sheriden Auctions. If interested check www.eauctionexchange.com. There are bees listed but I talked to the owner and they didn't make it through the winter-not that anyone would buy without inspection. Coleene :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 20:22:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Vs: Re: [BEE-L] Package Bees and Oxalic Acid. In-Reply-To: <002f01c53c43$956189c0$ef08a5c3@pomi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-470F31F5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >Evaporation does not affect the same way. It can be done on weekly basis >during fall. But we have only experience from 3 - 4 evaporation treatments >per hive during fall . The last one should be after all brood had emerged. >Ari Seppälä Could you talk more about this...with the results. In fall starting when? After the last honey is taken? Did you do mite drop counts with each evaporation? Any significant bee kill, or queen problems? Mike -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.0 - Release Date: 3/21/2005 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 21:36:10 -0400 Reply-To: scot@linuxfromscratch.org Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Scot Mc Pherson Organization: Bradenton Bees Subject: Re: Shook Swarm Varroa Treatment In-Reply-To: <200504090118.j391FHwd006519@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just shaking into a fresh hive breaks the brood cycle long enough for a treatment to not need a treament. A hive that has not one single varroa mite in it will still have a mature varroa population within 2 years chemical treatment or not. The shakedown is enough to do the job. Scot Mc Pherson Bradenton Bees http://beewiki.linuxfromscratch.org http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/OrganicBeekeepers/ mailto:scot@linuxfromscratch.org . ` , ` ' .,';`,. ``. '. _/^\_ :;.,';`'.,` `., ' '`, /_____\ .:.,"'` /\_____/\ .,:`'" \###/.,';` :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 22:21:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Shook Swarm Varroa Treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Just shaking into a fresh hive breaks the brood cycle long enough for a > treatment to not need a treament. Have you been doing this and checking the efficacy of the treatment? How? How long until the process must be repeated? Have you calculated the effect on the hive's production? What do you do with the brood? allen http://www.honeybeeworld.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 04:21:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: Shook Swarm Varroa Treatment In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Allen Barrett wrote: and > being sprayed with something that was being simply > called "varroa treatment". I'm curious as to what > that sprayed on treatment could have been and whether > or not it's available/legal in the US. If anyone > knows what this could have been I'd be very interested > in knowing. Thanks. :) Could be sucrose octonoate, and yes it's legal in the U.S.. Dadant has it. Mike __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:43:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Liz Corbett Subject: Mite-Away II receives Section 3 registration in USA Dear beekeepers, We at NOD Apiary Products are pleased to announce that a Section 3 registration has been granted for the distribution of Mite-AwayII Formic Acid Pads in the US effective March 30, 2005. 25 northern state registrations are in process and should be fairly quick. Southern states will be registered in time for fall treatment. Please visit the website at www.miteaway.com for full Directions for Use, MSDS, and a list of distributors and state registrations. The website is undergoing some updating so check back early next week if you don't see the info you need. Questions are welcome at info@miteaway.com or 866-483-2929 (Mon-Fri). Distributors so far are Dadant and B&B Honey Farm. Beekeepers DO have another option for varroa and tracheal mite treatment in 2005! Here's to a successful 2005 season, David VanderDussen CEO and commercial beekeeper Liz Corbett Business Manager and hobby beekeeper NOD Apiary Products USA Inc. 866-483-2929 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:04:47 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Burgess Subject: Re: Shook Swarm Varroa Treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Have you been doing this and checking the efficacy of the treatment? >> Have you calculated the effect on the hive's production? >> What do you do with the brood? I have just returned from a teach-in on IPM methods, including shook swarm. It may be carried out from May to June (UK). You should place a queen excluder under the brood to discourage absconding. Shaking straight onto foundation (with feeding until drawn) gives efficacy of 60-80%. This can be improved by leaving one old frame with unsealed brood only (cut out all sealed brood) until it is sealed . Then remove and destroy. The first of the new frames with sealed brood can also be removed and destroyed. It was claimed that the total procedure can increase efficacy to over 95%. All the original comb and brood is destroyed, and so this procedure is not too good if you need early bees, but it is ok in much of the UK where the main flow is later in the year, unless you migrate for OSR or fruit tree pollination. The technique has been developed by the National Bee Unit, York, as an alternative to burning as a treatment for EFB. The use for combatting varroa came as a by-product. The lecturer who presented the method claimed that honey yields remain unaffected, possibly a result of fresh comb and general improvement of bee health. This is UK experience and may not be reproduced elsewhere. Regards, John Burgess :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:01:55 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Shook Swarm Varroa Treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "John Burgess" wrote: > All the original comb and brood is destroyed, and so this procedure is not > too good if you need early bees, but it is ok in much of the UK where the > main flow is later in the year... John I would suggest that much of the UK depends very much on OSR and often has very little later in the year. To lose the OSR crop would certainly hit us very badly here in the Midlands. Peter Edwards beekeepers@stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:20:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Allen Barrett Subject: Re: Shook Swarm Varroa Treatment MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; reply-type=original; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thanks for the information. :) I'm definately going to give this a try next season. (I'm in central Arkansas, USA) I'll post the resultant Varroa counts to the list if there is interest. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:08:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: 3 frame hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many folks have done this. Make a split from a hive but either forgot about it or something prevented you from getting back to it. I did that this past year. So I opened up those two hives expecting to find bees robbing it out. But I found it still working in the frames given it last spring and the queen still working. I have since then given them more frames to hopefully draw out. Anyone else doing this good. Or are we still reporting crashing hives. Russ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:48:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: davidbrowder Subject: Re: 3 frame hive MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Anyone else doing this good. Or are we still reporting crashing hives. ............Things are great here in North Carolina. Lost two out of twenty this winter. They were looking kinda puny last Fall so it wasn't any sort of big deal to me. Looking for swarms. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:50:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: "Crashed" hive In-Reply-To: <85.25561042.2f8bed01@wmconnect.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I neglected my bees last year and paid for it with one hive gone by fall from Varroa. It had the classic crash - strong in summer and dead by fall. After my own health problems settled down and I learned I would be around for a bit more, I started paying attention to my bees. I treated the other three with oxalic acid drip in November (mostly broodless, the right time to treat) and sent the other three hives, which were fairly weak and had Varroa, into an uncertain winter. I started planning for a complete loss of all the remaining colonies. Wife and I went away in late March for two weeks and when we came back one hive had literally "crashed" after torrential rains washed away the front blocks supporting it. They had been drenched, hive bodies split apart but they were still alive. Put the colony back together and have come through the winter with no losses. Even the "crashed" hive had about five frames of bees still doing fine. Better than a nuc. So even though I had a "crash" I have 100% survival with oxalic acid drip treatment. I am amazed. Granted, little science involved here, but they were in bad shape and should have died so I can only attribute success to oxalic acid. Several experienced beekeepers in the area have suffered significant losses. They did not use oxalic. One used Apistan and thought they were in good shape since they had large mite drops, but that only showed there were more mites where they came from. They lost over half their bees. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:49:49 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Fondant recipe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi I'm getting tired of dealing with burbing feeders on my observation hive. Who's got a good fondant recipe for bees? Thanks Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:55:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Fondant recipe In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050411114806.03cb5ec0@selway.umt.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry Bromenshenk wrote: > Who's got a good fondant recipe for bees? Fondant can be many things but it is basically soft candy. Classic recipe is 5 lbs sugar to one pint water. Heat to 242F (some do it to only 240F) and pour into mold. If you want it creamy, like icing, let it cool to about 110F and work it on a marble slab as if you were working fudge. All that does is put air into it, so if you are just interested in bee feed, don't bother. I coat my mold (a rimmed cookie sheet) with Crisco so get the added benefit of a little tracheal control. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:04:38 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Shook Swarm Varroa Treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I don't do any of this, I am simply stating that treating a package of > bees is a useless measure. The fact they are a package already is just as > effective as any treatment. This is an interesting statement, especially in light of the fact that many beekeepers have reported receiving package bees that had sufficient varroa loads to crash the first season. > You don't really need to shakedown into a new hive. Anything you can do to > break the brood cycle is effective. It is true that splitting and caging queens, etc. are reported to have the effect of reducing varroa, but we have long broodless periods up here in the Great White North, and, although our climate does thus reduce varroa pressure, we nonetheless do experience sufficient varroa levels that we must monitor and, usually, treat. Usually we find it prudent to do at least one treatment annually. Moreover, I understand that swarms have been reported to carry sufficient varroa to be a concern. > Doing a shakedown is most effective because not only is > the brood cycle broken, but it also take some time for it > to ramp back up. Similar to a natural swarm, I should think. > Yes it effects production because you are essentially emmulating > a package installation, ableit it might be several pounds of bees > instead of just 2 or 3. When we made packages from our hives in October, we averaged eight pounds of bees per hive. I imagine that in summer, we would have as much as twice that. > You throw away the brood and render the wax. That is a cost many of us would be loathe to accept. > BUT since its > your own operation and bees aren't being shipped, you have > the luxury of determining when the bees are to be shaken, > instead of waiting until april, you can shake them down in > february, or even january if you live in subtropical USA. True. every region is different. > I know you live in canada and so you might be forced to wait > until march, but if you feed the bees back some combs of > honey for raising brood, your bees will be ready for the > upcoming season. As I say, most hives have already bee broodless for a month or several months by then, so the only difference would be the disruption. In many cases, I fear that it would be fatal, since the bees are still wrapped and very vulnerable to stress by then. Some viable hives are getting quite small by March and April. > In sweden there are beeks, that shake the bees down onto > fresh foundation just as winter sets in after brood production > stops. The bees then draw brood comb when they begin > brooding again in the fall. Perhaps this is an option for you > since sweden is as harsh or harsher a winter environment. I'd like to know more about this. In my own experience, any major disruption of the brood chambers after August has consitently resulted in serious, even total losses of colonies over winter. > This effectively emmulates a package that doesn't have to go > through a late spring buildup and is just as ready and mature > as a hive that is over-wintered without having been shaken. I'd like to see this theory tested in a controlled local situation before I adopted it. It is also appears very labour intensive, disruptive and weather-dependant compared to proven cheap alternatives. > My hives don't suffer from varroa troubles, as much as I > know most people hate to hear it. The organic methods > outlined by the OrganicBeekeeper groups works very very > well. I doubt people hate to hear it. I think most of us are very interested in these ideas. I, for one, am a member of OrganicBeekeepers and read it every so often. I must confess though, that there is too much chatter there for me to read it all the time, and we rely on people like yourself to report anything important, mentioned there or in other lists and forums here on BEE-L, hopefully with URLs or quotes to make finding the material easier. > Out of a total of 34 hives last year, I ended the season with > 30, went into this season with 30, and just split my strongest > hives up to 45 hives just last week as the citrus flow ended. Sounds almost the same as my situation. I have the same number, the same survival, and will be doing the same thing, except we have no citrus flow. FWIW, we have not treated most of our hives for 24 months now, but Medhat checked them all for mites and treated the few that were most heavily infested so they would be sure to survive the winter and be available for the rest of the observation. One hive had 84% phoretic varroa! Most by far were around 1%, including the spring package bees from Australia that started, if we can believe the Australians, at zero. See http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2004/diary110104.htm. > I should have split them much earlier, but I had other > family/household related issues that associated with moving in > december came first. I hope to end this season with 80-120 > hives from swarm captures and splits. I will if nothing gets in > the way this year be performing two splits in late january and > again in february/march. Sounds like we are like twins, except that I have to wait for May to split. In summary, my impression from reading is that using shook swarms for varroa control, like many other methods can be useful in some situations, but has not been proven effective enough to be sufficiently reliable for all purposes. Apparently, it is good enough for some people, but I am unaware of good data, and the labour arequired and the effect on the colony build-up are not negligible. Until I see before and after figures, I would wonder, if, as in my case, the varroa are simply failing to build up as expected for some unknown reason, and that the shook swarming is actually not doing much. Furthermore, regional or management effects may influence the results. I don't know. I do know that bees can handle higher varroa levels than I ever imagined -- the 84% hive is still looking good after a hard winter, although it did get some Apistan as an emergency measure -- and that we may need much less treatment than we previously thought. I suspect that the treatments have been far worse than the mites in many cases. If you have measured your varroa levels, I would be very interested to compare them to mine, and know what you find is a tolerable level for your region and methods. At any rate, my personal suggestion would be that anyone planning to try this, do so on a limited scale and measure the varroa load before and after before relying on it too much. In my experience many beekeepers judge the condition of the bees by a glance, rather than measuring carefully, and are later surpised to see their hives all crash when the mites finally get ahead due to some weather or other random factor. We hear the glowing reports while the bees thrive, but there is a sudden silence when the hives die. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ Today: More on my Styrofoam hives :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:58:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Les Crosby Subject: Re: Honeybee Semiochemicals In-Reply-To: <200504010053.j310n3Ba005883@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mar 31, 2005, at 4:53 PM, Joe Waggle wrote:, > hello > Looking for supplier for semiochemicals for honeybee pheromone studies. > > Especially the difficult to find, nerolic acid and geranic acid. > > Very Best regards, > Joe > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: hello joe waggle The supplier is Julie McCarthy Phero Tech Inc jjmccarth@uniserve.com Re your request 3/31/05 regards Les Crosby elbees@copper.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:07:22 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Fondant recipe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I coat my mold (a rimmed cookie sheet) with Crisco so get the added > benefit of a little tracheal control. Very little, I believe. The Crisco effect is very weak, and my understanding is that Crisco must be present in a hive pretty well year-round to be noticable. Occasional Crisco use is likely of very minor benefit, if any, if my memory serves me well. Maybe someone has a link to more info on vegetable oil effects on tracheal mites? Dianna did the work, as I recall. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:23:56 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Les Crosby Subject: Re: Honeybee Semiochemicals In-Reply-To: <200504010053.j310n3Ba005883@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Joe The source for the chemicals is in Delta B.C. Canada jjmccarth@uniservvvvve.com On Mar 31, 2005, at 4:53 PM, Joe Waggle wrote: > Hello :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:09:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Fondant recipe- now tracheal mites In-Reply-To: <01c401c53f92$dbf32f90$b87ba8c0@Nemo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit allen dick wrote: >> I coat my mold (a rimmed cookie sheet) with Crisco so get the added >> benefit of a little tracheal control. > > > Very little, I believe. Twas a joke, but since you asked... Diana did do the work. What she was found was vegetable oil masked the difference between older and younger bees so the mites stayed with the older bees and died with them. The best time to apply it was in the fall and so bees overwintered with it, one patty on the top of the frames of each hive body. By spring, Tracheal was not a problem so patties were unnecessary. May have been pollen that took over the masking job or the bees just increased in number faster than the mite. Even in winter, Tracheal was not a sure killer for most colonies got through but weak and stunted, a state that could be caused by several other problems. And most that came through did grow into a strong colony by summer, just not a good honey producer since they had a slow start. I do think that some of the current losses are from Tracheal and not just Varroa. It did take a long time to recognize the losses from Tracheal when it "first" came on the scene (it may have been around much longer, just not identified). Plus, I doubt if many current beekeepers would know it was the cause of their losses since you do need to dissect the bees to positively ID the mite. (At the 1990 Maine EAS we did so, but sometimes, if you pop off the head just right you can see the mites in the trachea. - soon to be on an episode of CSI.) My bees of several years ago, at the height of Tracheal, tested clean of them, the only bees in the area that did so. I grew my own. In time, you can lose resistant characteristic since the pressure has been removed. So we may be going through a classic resistance, loss of resistance, collapse, resistance, cycle. Nothing lasts forever, even Tracheal mite resistance. Or we may have been concentrating so hard on Varroa, that we are replacing our Tracheal resistant bees with ones that are not. One other possibility, and this is pure conjecture, is with all our Varroa mite treatments like Apistan and Cumophose, that also kill Tracheal (so does Formic Acid- have no idea about Oxalic), we may have bred a resistant Tracheal mite as well as resistant Varroa. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:59:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: Honeybee Semiochemicals In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks to all who have helped me on and off list with finding the honeybee semiochemicals, I have placed the info in my files for future reference. I did manage to find what I need thanks to the kind efforts of a list member. Thank You! As a token of my appreciation, and so I don't violate any rules against sending thank you notes on list. I wish to share this highly classified honeybee pheromone database link I recently found on honeybee and other insect semiochemicals: http://www.pherobase.com/database/species-Apis-mellifera.html Somebody else was asking for chemical composition of honeybee pheromones not too long ago, but I can't seem to locate the message in the archives, I hope the link will help whoever it was. If you click on the compound, you can view the structure,,, which really don't mean a thing to me,, but thought it was neat anyway. A totally different subject: I'm looking for a written reference for my honeybee trivia collection on how many crevices swarm scouts will investigate while looking for a potential nest site. I seem to recall reading 4,000 crevices are investigated by scouts searching for a home, but the computer locked up before I could save the info. It seems logical that if an average swarm is 10,000 or so bees (Winston), and 5% are scouts (Seeley et al.1979), 500 bees could easily search 4,000 crevices. But I wondered if this info was in a study somewhere. Thanks! Joe PA __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:28:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Lord Subject: ultrasound and vacuum honey filtration I have a friend in Bulgaria who is a large honey packer, primarily exporting to the EU in barrels and in jars. He has asked me to help him improve his honey filtration and processing to delay granulation. He has asked me to check into ultrasound and vacuum filtration. Does anyone have any knowledge about these filtration techniques? I would be interested in hearing about filtration experience in general, particularly from someone who exports to the EU. He packs high quality linden and acacia honey, so there is a fine balance between good filtration and quality maintenance. thanks, Bill Lord Louisburg, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:48:18 -0400 Reply-To: Lloyd Spear Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: trachael mites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bill said "One other possibility, and this is pure conjecture, is with all our Varroa mite treatments like Apistan and Cumophose, that also kill Tracheal (so does Formic Acid- have no idea about Oxalic), we may have bred a resistant Tracheal mite as well as resistant Varroa." it is my understanding that Apistan and Coumaphous DO NOT kill mites inside the trachea, but both Oxalic and Formic do. Is that right? -- Lloyd Spear Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacture of equipment for round comb honey sections, Sundance Pollen Traps, and producer of Sundance custom labels. Contact your dealer or www.RossRounds.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:32:24 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: ultrasound and vacuum honey filtration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Under COUNCIL DIRECTIVE 2001/110/EC the EU has made new rules regarding = the sale of honey. Honey obtained by removing foreign inorganic or organic matter in such = a way as to result in the significant removal of pollen.is defined as = 'filtered honey'. As 'filtered honey' there are restrictions placed on the labelling of = monofloral honeys. Quote (b) except in the case of filtered honey and baker's honey, the = product names may be supplemented by information referring to: - floral or vegetable origin, if the product comes wholly or mainly from = the indicated source and possesses the organoleptic, physico-chemical = and microscopic characteristics of the source, End quote Ruary Rudd ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Bill Lord" I have a friend exporting to the EU in barrels and in jars. He has = asked me to help him improve his honey filtration and processing to delay granulation. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:40:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: ultrasound and vacuum honey filtration In-Reply-To: <200504131228.j3DBxGDc012774@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill, The types of honey that your Bulgarian contact deals with have extreme crystallization properties. Acacia (False Robina) remains liquid for many months and would only require minimum treatment to remove debris. Linden (Tilia sp.) on the other hand crystallizes rather quickly (sometimes in the comb). My experience is that it needed to be dealt with in a similar manner to that of Rape (Canola, Colza). Heated gently to reduce viscosity, filtered to remove unwanted debris. Both have typical tastes: Acacia being easily damaged, Linden (Lime sp.) having a pronounced, more robust minty taste. Due to the latter, it is often blended to reduce this quality. Ultra filtration (Ultrasound? and Vacuum) to my mind is only used when honeys are deemed to be disguised in some manner - removing many aromatics, evidence of geographical origin. It leaves a polished clear sugary liquid lacking many characters of the original product. IMHO it is a process that should be totally banned when producing so called "Table honey". Honey should be submitted only to a minimum of treatment. Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:14:09 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Medhat Nasr, Ph. D." Subject: Re: tracheal mites In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Lloyd spear asked: it is my understanding that Apistan and Coumaphous DO NOT kill mites inside the trachea, but both Oxalic and Formic do. Is that right? Answer: Formic acid kills varroa and tracheal mites, but liquid oxalic acid in sugar syrup does not. medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Provincial Apiculturist Crop Diversification Centre North 17507 Fort Road Edmonton, AB, Canada T5Y 6H3 Tel: (780) 415-2314 Fax: (780) 422-6096 Mailto:medhat.nasr@gov.ab.ca :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:20:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: trachael mites In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd Spear wrote: >it is my understanding that Apistan and Coumaphous DO NOT kill mites >inside the trachea, but both Oxalic and Formic do. > > Apistan and Cumaphose are contact killers so do not kill Varroa mites inside cells either. Tracheal mites come out to go from bee to bee so are exposed. Bill :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:41:45 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Comments: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys From: Danilo Subject: Beeswax production from sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, I would like to know if it would be profitable to produce beeswax by feeding hives with sugar syrup and/or sugar cane "juice" . I live in Brazil and there are some people here engaged in experiences of this sort. Their aim is to produce an extra-white wax that, according to them, would have a good price in the international market. These experiences are in progress, and the preliminary results do not seem to be that promising. Anyway, if somebody in this group knows something on the subject or heard about any previous experience or work of this kind please let me know. Regards, Danilo --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:37:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Williamson Subject: Re: Beeswax production from sugar I think the average here is 2-3 lbs. of beeswax per hive and the hives make a 150lb. surplus. I would say 1 lb. per deep Super. bulk crude light beeswax is going for $1.50 lb. tops. Corn Syrup goes for .16 lb. So to equal feed and product you could only feed 9lbs. (a gallon)of syrup. I don't think the bees are going to produce that much beeswax on a gallon. Double the price and its two gallons. nope. I think there is a reason beeswax is considered a by product and not a main crop. I bet if you got $6.00lb. for it you would be extremely lucky to pay for the feed required to make it. Best stick to the honey flow. My .02 Robert Williamson www.texasdrone.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:28:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Regional forum and update This wont be interesting to very many on the list, but I've started a board for people on the Central Coast of California to sell equipment, share experience etc... http://centralcoastbeekeeping.com/ Things here are great, with the soil moist, lots of warm sunshine and flowers everywhere. My first splits are filling up supers. Those I didn't split in time have sent off multiple swarms. It must be happening to the few ferral hives as well, as there seem to be swarms everywhere. Last week alone I got a call almost every day, from a guy who somehow ended up with a swarm partially in his living room, to a swarm which landed at a school bus stop while the kids were there waiting! It's been nice to fill up so many of those empty boxes. So far none of those very small swarms we had in South Africa and Dr. Wenner recently reported in Santa Barbara (1 hour south of us). Avocado farmers are paying 50 dollars this year, and for the first time I can remember they are panicing/hustling to get hives. Some are looking for up to 3 hives per acre. I think it has much to with several factors, the lack of large numbers of ferral hives, the huge expansion of acreage, and the tendency to plant only the Hass variety, with at most a few pollinator trees, which makes pollination much more difficult. Russian hives slightly more aggressive than the Italians, and still fine without any mite treatment, although it's only been a little less than a year. Regards to the list Tim Vaughan :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:35:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Re: Beeswax production from sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a related question: How , in your opinion, do bees build up using open feed methods as compared to natural flows? I was thinking of isolating a yard of starter hives (begun w/queen and couple of frames bees) and feeding them like mad during a period of nectar dearth here(June, first 2 weeks of July) so that they could hopefully be built up in time for the cotton flow(roughly mid July thru August. Any comments Thanks John Horton :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:42:33 -0500 Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Juan_Carlos_Fern=E1ndez_Campos?= Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Juan_Carlos_Fern=E1ndez_Campos?= Subject: Re: Beeswax production from sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Danilo, It is shure that the "extra white wax" is nice experiment, but its not economic at all, around here there were some tries, using sugar cane "juice" (we call it guarapo), extracted by an electric motor and two cilinders, by pasing the cane between them. Anyway the crop, shiping and the workon it was not an easy thing to pay, and the results(wax from caps) was few, tyhe wax from the combs did not pay it either. May be using your own cane, the cost of the electricity and hand of work is easy thing to you, it could be profitable. regards jcf. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:57:26 -0500 Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Juan_Carlos_Fern=E1ndez_Campos?= Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Juan_Carlos_Fern=E1ndez_Campos?= Subject: Re: Beeswax production from sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have read from experiments, feeding bees, even in hard winter(-35 C), with warm syrup, they take as mush as you can give them, and they could store, those people also feed them from sun set to sun rise. Those syrups must have around 20% of sugar, and the sugar cane "juice" only have about 13%, and bno more than that. It could be tred, but not with economic aim, at least, that is my opinon. regards jcf. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::