From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 10:53:44 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-83.9 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAFA64907C for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SFhrpk016524 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:52:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0711B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 120936 Lines: 2667 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 12:46:56 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Colony stacking and winter insulation. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am planning to overwinter a few one-deep colonies on top of other colonies. The top most colony will get the regular insulation - a newspaper and a stick facilitating top ventilation. What about the lower colonies - do they need some top insulation or will the higher colony act as sufficient insulation and prevent moisture condensation below? [I will provide the lower colonies with some top ventilation into the higher colonies.] Thank you. Waldemar Long Island, NY ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 05:57:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Royal Jelly May Help Prevent Insulin Resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Royal Jelly May Help Prevent Insulin Resistance Effect of Long-Term Treatment with Royal Jelly on Insulin Resistance in Otsuka Long-Evans Tokushima Fatty (OLETF) Rats Yakugaku Zasshi, 2007 Nov;127(11):1877-82 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/11/royal-jelly-may-help-prevent-insulin.html Royal jelly (RJ) is known to have abundant nutritional properties and a variety of biological activities. To investigate the effects of RJ on insulin resistance, 10-week-old Otsuka Long-Evans Tokushima Fatty (OLETF) rats, a type 2 diabetic model, were treated for 4 weeks with RJ (10, 30, and 300 mg/kg, p.o.). RJ treatment tended to decrease systolic blood pressure and significantly decreased serum levels of insulin and the Homeostasis Model Assessment ratio, an index of insulin resistance… ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 07:25:23 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: 2007 bee die off MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, The below information goes back a decade showing a connection between pesticides and bee die offs in my opinion. Beekeepers have always had to contend with pesticides but these new pesticides are particularly problematic because of bringing back contaminated pollen into the hive which effects the colony later. Further research is certainly needed but a connection between these new pesticides and bee die offs seems to be forming. One reason beekeepers have simply learned to live with pesticide problems in my opinion is in the past the kills have been usually a yard of bees in an area ( my past experience) and I can't say I have ever heard of a large several thousand holding yard getting hit. Unless in a case or two of last years CCD. The huge die off in France draws some suspicion from beekeepers because of the huge number of hives involved ( 120,000) and so widespread. Despite what the article says my contacts in France seem convinced that banning of certain pesticides solved the problem except for SSDD which has always been around. However last years U.S. die off might fall in a similar category but we know now other factors were involved such as virus and N. ceranae. In the U.S. last year I think the die off was caused by many different factors which included weather issues. The good news is after searching I do not see bees dying on the scale of last year this time. Secondly I have not so far seen bees dying on the scale of the winter 2005/2006. Which makes the problem difficult for those researching CCD. Its kind of like when you hear a noise in your car engine and when you take to your mechanic the car does not make the noise. The bee industry needs bee research funds and we have got the public interest to get us the funds. However its hard to find a noise in a car engine when the engine is not making the noise. Please email me members if you hear of bees dying. old information with 2007 update: http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2003/11/26/millions_of_bees_dead_bayers _gaucho_blamed.htm bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 08:36:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Imported Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit waldig@netzero.com wrote: >3. Why doesn't USDA import semen and eggs directly from Italy? The USDA already spent millions importing bees from Russia, and from the former Yugoslavia before that. The Russians are probably the best bet at this point > Research has shown that mite-tolerant stocks are effective means to reduce mite infestations within colonies, but it is unclear whether the stocks available commercially are viable means of mite control because they are likely to be genetic hybrids. We compared colonies of a standard commercial stock (Italian) with those of a commercially purchased mite-tolerant stock (Russian) for their levels of varroa and “tracheal” mites (A. woodi) over the course of 2 yr in three different geographic locations. > By the end of the first year, we found statistically significant differences between the stocks in varroa mite intensity (mites per adult bee), such that Russian-hybrid colonies tended to have a significantly lower proportion of parasitized adult bees than Italian colonies. In the second year, we found statistically significant differences between the stocks in varroa mite load (daily mite drop), such that Russian-hybrid colonies tended to have lower total numbers of mites than Italian colonies. These findings suggest that beekeepers may benefit by incorporating commercially purchased mite-tolerant stocks into their existing integrated pest management programs. DAVID R. TARPY "Comparison of Parasitic Mites in Russian-Hybrid and Italian Honey Bee Colonies" 2007. JOURNAL OF ECONOMIC ENTOMOLOGY. 100(2): 258-266 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 09:32:26 -0500 Reply-To: david.meldrum@verizon.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "David.Meldrum" Subject: Where to get scale hive MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dave Wheeler posted an interesting article about using lots of scale hives to monitor the environment. http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Study/Bees/bees4.html I would love to have a scale hive but never could locate one. I tried eBay and the only thing that looked interesting was a 330lb platform scale meant to be used indoors ($65). Try eBay with a search for "platform scale" Now my question is do you think if such a scale were wrapped in plastic it would survive under a bee hive? Also while I am not an expert in stain gauges it just seems like if a company can produce an electronic bathroom scale for under $20 why couldn't someone put together a kit of say four strain gauges that you could hook up a volt ohm meter and get a weight reading. Perhaps the owner would have to calibrate the kit, and maybe even take a temperature reading to adjust for temperature. With the calibration charts you could get a weight reading. If anyone is skilled in the art of strain gauges, I would love to see some sort of cheap design worked up. It only needs to be precise to the pound and absolute accuracy is not important. - Dave ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:30:13 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Josh Markle Subject: Re: Colony stacking and winter insulation. In-Reply-To: <20071108.044656.26716.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am also curious about the amount of insulation needed. I padded the outside of my colonies with 1 inch sheets of styrofoam and then wrapped that in some black sheets of poly. Any thoughts on that strategy? Thanks, Josh Calgary, AB. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 12:02:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Imported Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >The USDA already spent millions importing bees from Russia, and from the former Yugoslavia before that. The Russians are probably the best bet at this point I wondered why Russian semen was not brought back with the first trip made by Shiminuki but bringing in the queens brought in the complete genetics to work with and proved the best move. The reason being that once you move away from the Russian as imported and move into hybrids the varroa tolerance seems to drop.(my own experience). I brought back 26 II pure Russian breeder queens from Dann Purvis to evaluate years ago. I found the hives headed by the pure Russian could handle varroa & tracheal mites with out problems but once I open mated and was dealing with a Russian hybrid the scenario changed and the bees became less varroa tolerant. When a Russian hybrid queen was grafted from and her daughters open mated then those bees became less varroa tolerant. So my question is: What happens when there are no pure Russian/Russian to use to get back to the start again? My objection to the Russian has been with their other traits which would be fine for a hobby beekeeper. The Russian import was as Martha Stuart would say: "A good thing" I guess if the original lines are lost then another Russian import could be done. Dann Purvis asked for the Baton Rouge Bee lab to send the reject program queens to Dann so he could keep those lines pure and still around through II. His offer was rejected and those queens got the hive tool. Both Dann and I felt some queens worth saving got the hive tool as mite counts alone do not tell the whole story. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 18:48:23 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Imported Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>The USDA already spent millions importing bees from Russia, and from t= he former Yugoslavia before that. I am not familiar with those efforts but have often wondered why it cost= millions to evaluate some queens 'over there' and bring them (or their = eggs and their drones' semen) here. A few chosen US co-operators could = be found to evaluate the stock here. = >>The Russians are probably the best bet at this point The literature seems to suggest that but even Kirk Webster says it takes= 5 years of selection in local conditions to achieve acceptable mite tol= erance in nucs. Strong production colonies still have significant losse= s (in Vermont). He switched to Russian stock a few years ago. A few beekeepers on Long Island have tried Russian queens and were not a= ll that thrilled. Plus Russian behavior & productivity are not superior= to the Italians. I hear Russian mite tolerance is much better but the = mite issue does not become a non-issue with them or their hybrids. I have not heard overwhelming praises for New World or Old World Carniol= ians except from the queen producers. I don't know that we lack the genetic diversity in the US or if our sele= ction process is inadequate. I feel the long-term solution will stem fr= om strong local selection with a very careful addition of genetics, if n= eeded. I also feel it should be the beekeepers with their force-multipl= ier effect in cooperation with local researchers who should carry out th= e work. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 16:35:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: David VanderDussen Subject: CCD video link Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I thought the list might be interested in seeing what I think is some CCD video. Last February Steven Haylestrom and myself of NOD Apiary Products went to take a look at the situation being reported of dwindling colonies of bees going into almond bloom. As well we were demonstrating the alcohol wash method of checking phoretic varroa loads, the new Bee Brief nuc box and how to apply Mite-Away, all tools for sustainable commercial beekeeping practices. When working with one of the beekeepers Steven took some video of the condition which came to be known as CCD. It is available on youtube at: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8wB-OQAcsWQ You can see in the video that the beekeepers are trying to figure out what they are seeing. We saw hives with small populations of bees, unable to cover the brood area. These colonies appeared to have had good populations just a few days prior, now gone. There is no nectar coming out of the combs when they are shaken, yet strong hives set down just a few yards away are not touching feed (robbing) in the dead hives. The hives being replaced were reported to have been good units just a couple of weeks before. Some hives have the shotgun brood patterns classic of PMS, yet varroa mite loads were not that high. No wax moth larvae were seen, just a mouse, even though wax moth is generally present at background levels, kept under control by the bees. When colonies become as weak as the colonies we were seeing, the wax moth larvae can usually be readily seen, unconcerned about being harassed by the house bees, tracking their webbing across and through the brood comb. What killed off the wax moth larva? I don’t want to fuel the debate of speculation, but seeing what some beekeepers were dealing with can be instructive and encourage our compassion. David v. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 17:59:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carl & Virginia Webb Subject: Re: Imported Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob wrote; >My objection to the Russian has been with their other traits which would be fine for a hobby beekeeper. More and more commercial beekeepers are successfully using Russian bees. It is wonderful to be able to produce a honey crop and not have to worry about whether your honey is contaminated with mite or disease control chemicals. It is also a great feeling not to worry about winter survival. Also you and others are using the term, "mite tolerant". Russian bees may be more tolerant to mites than other bees but more importantly they are mite resistant. Is it only tolerance when they actively remove vorroa infected brood? Is it only tolerance when they groom the mites off their body and hive mates body? Is it only tolerance when they chew the legs off mites? Is it only tolerance when they carry mites out and drop them in the grass? This is mite resistance. I hope that Mite resistant bees are in the future for all beekeepers. The genes are available. The bees can do it. Let use give the bees a chance. Carl Webb ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 21:05:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Imported Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >The USDA already spent millions importing bees from Russia, and from the >former Yugoslavia before that. The Russians are probably the best bet at >this point Probably the ‘best bet’ only because they didn’t hedge their bets. Now doing NOT as beekeepers do, but as politicians do. I remember reading another short comparative study by Tarpy designed to <<< sell >>> Russians to the public. Strangely enough, NO mention of the Russians tendency to swarm in the paper. If I recall some other absentees in the paper, IMO seemingly in an effort to << sell >> Russians over Italians. IMO, in the effort to find resistance, desired management traits have been all but ignored. Tarpys comparative studies: Tarpy, D. R., J. T. Summers, and J. J. Keller. (2007). Comparison of parasitic mites in Russian-hybrid and Italian honey bee (Hymenoptera: Apidae) colonies across three different locations in North Carolina. Journal of Economic Entomology, 100: 258-266. http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/entomology/apiculture/PDF% 20files/Tarpy_et.al.2007b.pdf Tarpy, D. R., J. T. Summers, J. J. Keller, and W. T. Hensey. (2007). Comparing pairs of Russian and Italian colonies by new beekeepers in North Carolina. American Bee Journal, 147: 149-152. [PDF] http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/entomology/apiculture/PDF% 20files/Tarpy_et.al.2007a.pdf Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA ‘Bees Gone Wild Apiaries' http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles FeralBeeProject.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 21:34:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carl & Virginia Webb Subject: Re: Imported Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob wrote; >My objection to the Russian has been with their other traits = which would be fine for a hobby beekeeper. More and more commercial beekeepers are successfully using Russian bees. = It=20 is wonderful to be able to produce a honey crop and not have to worry = about=20 whether your honey is contaminated with mite or disease control = chemicals.=20 It is also a great feeling not to worry about winter survival. Also you = and=20 others are using the term, "mite tolerant". Russian bees may be more=20 tolerant to mites than other bees but more importantly they are mite=20 resistant. Is it only tolerance when they actively remove vorroa = infected=20 brood? Is it only tolerance when they groom the mites off their body and = hive mates body? Is it only tolerance when they chew the legs off mites? = Is=20 it only tolerance when they carry mites out and drop them in the grass? = This=20 is mite resistance. I hope that Mite resistant bees are in the future for all beekeepers. = The=20 genes are available. The bees can do it. Let use give the bees a = chance. Carl Webb=20 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:43:34 -0500 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Where to get scale hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ... the only thing that looked interesting was a > 330lb platform scale meant to be used indoors ($65). That sounds like a good deal, as many beekeepers have used the old-school "shipping scales" with ad-hoc foul weather protection. Others have bought the Maxant Hive Scale for $95. http://www.maxantindustries.com/tools.html > if such a scale were wrapped in plastic it would > survive under a bee hive? I would think the key factor would be a good coat of paint on all exposed surfaces, and special consideration for the pivot point. (I'm assuming that this is a non-spring balance-type scale, as the spring type will rapidly rust into an inaccurate hunk of junk.) There was a set of plans floating around some time ago for a hive base that set the weight of the hive on two bathroom scales, and provided the scales some protection from the weather. One would read the weight on one scale with a mirror placed under the platform, and multiply by two. Yes, the scales had springs, and over time, they both rusted and compressed into inaccuracy, but the idea here was that you simply bought new (cheap) bathroom scales ($10 or so) every few years to replace them. Not very elegant, but certainly a lower cost of entry than other options. And "engineering" is the art of doing for $1.00 what any fool could do for $2.00. :) > if a company can produce an electronic bathroom scale for > under $20 why couldn't someone put together a kit of say > four strain gauges that you could hook up a volt ohm meter > and get a weight reading. I've looked at this specific problem over and over as different technologies have appeared, and even got really close to what looked like a viable product, only to be let down by over-hyped materials, so let me run down the basic needs/criteria/problems, and tell you more than you likely really wanted to know: 1) Wide range. Hives can vary from roughly 30lbs to 500lbs or more. Strain gauges with wide ranges are not cheap, and if you overload them too much, you can damage them, so you need to over-spec them for the real world. Bathroom scales have the advantage of being mass-produced, need only measure a limited range (say up to 200 lbs), and are put under pressure only for brief periods. If they were used in hive scale applications, they would not work very well, and would not work for long. 2) Sensitive over the wide range. Beekeepers expect to see precision of 1lb or 1kg, rather than larger increments. Strain gauges so sensitive over such a wide range are not cheap. 3) Accuracy and linearity over the wide range are also important. Accuracy is not precision, and sensitivity is not linearity. The trade-offs can give you headaches. 4) Strain gauges need something to be under strain, like a metal frame under a bottom board. This is an expensive part, as it must be precision-made, and must be strong enough to support the weight of the hive. Tricks where only part of the hive would be supported really only complicate matters, as weight within a hive will not always be evenly distributed. This part is also bulky and expensive to ship, due to its mass and size. 4a) The metal is never really allowed to "relax" between weighings in the case of a hive scale, so what you see, even with the most resilient materials, is a gradual deformation of the metal, a permanent change that makes readings inaccurate (or "blind to") when then hive later loses weight. A strain gauge is not magic, it can only detect strain that is present in the frame, and will never detect the strain if the frame deforms or otherwise becomes "less elastic", as there is no actual strain to detect. 4b) The same problem of constant load kills all sorts of alternatives to strain gauges, as none are really designed to sit there and keep being compressed 24 x 7 x 365. 5) Tooling up versus quantity is a bear, in that no product for beekeeping can ever pay back most tooling investments, or even clear a profit in the lifetime of the "inventor". Beekeeping is simply a "niche" market, not a mass-production one. Given all of the above, I thought I had a great solution, based upon the net pressure created by snaking a tube filled with hydraulic fluid under the edges of a bottom board. The display was a simple pressure gauge. It worked fine, but the tubing was nowhere near as UV-resistant and temperature-resistant as claimed by the vendor, so after a few simulated winters and summers in deep freezes and tanning salon beds, the tubing became hard and the unit no longer gave any reading at all. Replacing the tubing was not something one could do "at home" due to the need to eliminate all air from the line before sealing it, and remove all air from the internal works of the gauge. I also was never able to swamp out the issue of barometric pressure, so one had to look at a barometer, and compensate a bit with a lookup table when taking readings. I am waiting for "better tubing", but I am not holding my breath, and neither should anyone else. > Perhaps the owner would have to calibrate the kit, > and maybe even take a temperature reading to > adjust for temperature. Oh, yeah, temperature can be an issue with both electronics and with mechanical approaches. One hopes to "design it out", but this is yet another challenge, and it adds cost. > I would love to see some sort of cheap design worked up. Everyone would. Everyone also wants "cheap". > It only needs to be precise to the pound and absolute > accuracy is not important. See? You feel that you have very reasonable and "easy" requirements, but I have been unable to create anything that I was will to put my name on (and behind) that was not far more expensive than the existing products. I have a box full of sensors, strain gauges, and other things that seemed temping enough to buy, but turned out to be dead ends. I've "wasted" a good number of hours on the problem, too. Your turn. :) ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 12:58:35 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Imported Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>The reason being that once you move away from the Russian as imported and move into hybrids the varroa tolerance seems to drop.(my own experience). This is likely why the beekeepers around here who tried Russian queens were disappointed. >>When a Russian hybrid queen was grafted from and her daughters open mated then those bees became less varroa tolerant. So my question is: What happens when there are no pure Russian/Russian to use to get back to the start again? I'd think, given a sufficient quantity of Russian hybrids, a selection process could lead the population back to resistance. >>My objection to the Russian has been with their other traits which would be fine for a hobby beekeeper. I've read that Russians tend to keep a supercedure cells or several cells going at all times. In the swarm season, it's hard to tell if the cells are swarm or back-up supercedure. A great survival trait but would drive even a hobby beekeeper a little crazy. >>Dann Purvis asked for the Baton Rouge Bee lab to send the reject program queens to Dann so he could keep those lines pure and still around through II. His offer was rejected and those queens got the hive tool. Sad. The dept spent millions of tax payor dollars and refused to give what they considered junk to be disposed of to a citizen. What would be the harm? I don't like this sort of arrogance. If they did not want to give the rejected queens to Dann, they should have left them alone in the colonies and allowed them to swarm into a local area some place and let nature subject them to selective pressures. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 09:48:59 -0500 Reply-To: david.meldrum@verizon.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "David.Meldrum" Subject: Re: Where to get scale hive In-Reply-To: <000001c82293$7870bb90$0201000a@j> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit James Fischer wrote: Text omitted about building scales for hives to save space. -------------------- What a great response to the questions on developing a scale hive. Full of a lot information and worth archiving. Thanks - Dave ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 09:11:59 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Where to get scale hive Comments: To: bee-quick@BEE-QUICK.COM In-Reply-To: <000001c82293$7870bb90$0201000a@j> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jim & All, At least two BEE=L commercial beekeepers use scales to weigh hives for various reasons. Michael Palmer and myself. Maybe Michael Palmer will comment? We both use scales sold for weighing packages and sold by Grainger. Michael has explained his method on the "other" list but I don't believe so on BEE=L. I use the Grainger HD 400 pound scale with remote electronic reader (9 foot cord). I think Michael uses the mechanical Grainger scale. I am not sure but looked like the mechanical Grainger scale from the website photos. I sit the scale on a piece of plywood larger than the scale. I made a top piece of plywood which is held in place on the scale by a wood rim. I use the tool sold by Mann Lake for moving hives around to simply lift the hive off the pallet and place the hive on the scale. Takes about 3 minutes to weigh a hive. I mark the weight on the hive. I try to get the weight to around 120 pounds and up for hives (includes the weight of two deep boxes, bees and a migratory top) for Missouri winter. I think Michael shoots for 150-160 pounds for his area. Michael is in a much colder area than I am. 60 pounds of stored honey will take the bees through a *normal* Missouri winter. The scale can also be used quickly to check daily weight gains on hives. The scale and plywood boards fit in a truck box and the hive moving tool is on the truck most of the time. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 12:41:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "carimona@GMAIL.COM" Subject: Re: CCD video link Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hard to tell from a video but it would appear to me those colonies were starving. every frame they pulled looked empty of honey stores. maybe thats why the colonies had few workers and looked weak? if this is all it takes to diagnose as CCD no wonder there are so many non-believers. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 12:31:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "carimona@GMAIL.COM" Subject: superboost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Its becoming increasingly clear to me that feed lot/migratory beekeeping is straying far from the natural honeybee environment which Nature created. Now we have a new product being hawked that appears to alter the social structure within a hive. What next a genetically altered bee that is impervious to toxic materials and thrives on minimal nectar and pollen? As with many great ideas, stay tuned for the fine print you hear/see in pharmecutical ads which warn of various side effects and prolonged use concerns. SuperBoost - A Revolutionary New Product That Increases Honey Bee Pollination Imagine a device placed in bee hives that stimulates worker bees to forage for pollen faster and more often, resulting in more pollination events and greater crop yield. Imagine that this same device also increases brood rearing, queen rearing and honey production within the hive. In research supported in part by The Almond Board of California, Dr. Tanya Pankiw of Texas A&M University and her collaborators at Pherotech International (www.pherotech.com) have developed one such device called SuperBoost (patent pending). When SuperBoost is placed in a bee hive in the form of a small all-natural pheromone release device, it will: · increase the pollen load each foraging worker brings back to the hive by up to 100% · increase the number of pollen foragers by up to 150% · increase pollen foraging on the target crop by 43% · increase pollination activity of non-pollen foragers on the target crop by 54% · increase the number of pollen foraging trips per unit time by up to 72% · increase the colony growth rate in the summer and winter · lower the age of first foraging by worker honey bees, and · increase the overall health of the hive After many years of research, SuperBoost was recently tested successfully at Texas A&M University, and Pherotech has developed a commercial product. One device placed in the hive works for over 30 days! It is now available to growers and beekeepers from Mann Lake Supply in Hackensack, MN. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 18:28:38 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Where to get scale hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ...i've also looked into a diy electronics solution. fsr's (force sensing resistors) are good for this purpose, and i had a thought that if i built them into all the hives, i could have 1 microcontroller in each yard to read everything, and perhaps a cheap cellphone that calls in with data every 6 hours or something. the cost of the sensors (especially is it's probably best to use 4/hive...one in each corner) is the sticking point. i can't recall what i figured it would cost, but it was more than i was willing to spend. in contrast, i remeber seeing a foreign video clip(german perhaps) where they had a scale that slides under each bottom board, and is brought under load (raised) by pulling a lever. this seems to me the best option, short of a remote system where you don't need to be onsite to read the scale. of course, you may have to modify your bottom boards. that said, i have no hive scale other than my own lifting capacity....but i want one. deknow ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:08:09 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: CCD video link, an evaluation of? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "carimona@GMAIL.COM" wrote: hard to tell from a video but it would appear to me those colonies were starving. every frame they pulled looked empty of honey stores. maybe thats why the colonies had few workers and looked weak? if this is all it takes to diagnose as CCD no wonder there are so many non-believers. I wouldn't do any diagnosis of a hive from what little video was shown in that presentation. I think the video was done more to show varroa mite evaluation technique than anything else, especially a CCD diagnosis. Mike in LA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 13:25:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: Where to get scale hive In-Reply-To: <20071109.132838.2159.0@webmail12.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use 3 load cell on a pallet of four hives as one hive can give you false readings due to failing queen and other problems. You need at least 500# cells as four hives in a good honey flow will max them out. All three load cells need to be the same. This has been a good tool as it gives you what weather affects the honey flow and if one is happing or not. The computer takes a reading every 2 minutes along with due point and temp. and plots them out. Harper's Honey Farm Charles Harper labeeman@russianbreeder.com (337) 298 6261 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:42:58 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Grant Gillard Subject: Re: superboost In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is too much! Kind of like coffee/caffeine for honeybees, maybe even steroids. Aren't the bees motivated already? This also sounds like a product sold by a "natural" gardening mail-order company. Their product, when mixed with water and sprayed on the garden, would draw honeybees to the garden where they would then pollinate your flowers/vegetables. As if the bees wouldn't do it anyway. Grant Jackson, MO __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 16:34:45 -0500 Reply-To: james.fischer@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Where to get scale hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > fsr's (force sensing resistors) are good for this purpose, Save yourself the trouble. Been there, done that, still have the emotional scars. :) Wanna buy the very expensive "evaluation kit" of Tekscan Flexiforce FSRs for which I paid about $100? No, I won't take your money, I am not a thief or a con artist. They had the best specs of the bunch, and while I bought several of these sample kits, the bottom line is that these things are only good for the most general impression that "force has been applied" or "more force than before" or "less force than before. If you look carefully at their detailed specs, which they grudgingly provide when you ask pointed questions about applications where the sensor acts as anything more than a switch, and they spout nonsense like: "DRIFT: < 3% / logarithmic time (Constant load - 25 lb)" Don't feel bad if you do not understand this spec at all. Neither did I. The concept of "the log of time" is a highly entertaining idea, one we would like to see published in the journals for discussion. :) What they are covering up here is that these things are utterly useless when under any load at all for any time at all. The resistance of the sensor drops faster than the price of honey at a diabetic convention, and slowly reaches some sort of minimal measurement, but never really stops decreasing, even after months. If you think about a log curve, you can imagine how rapid the degradation of the sensor is under a constant load, and just how fast the reading "drops off". There's another spec that is a real knee-slapper, and would be crucial to the design of Wheatstone bridge to slide into the circuit "across from" the Flexiforce sensor as a temperature compensating strategy. The spec says: "0.36% per degree C" Which equates to a "3600 TCR PPM/Deg C". Now compare this with known standard values for commonly-used resistor materials, and you will find: TCR PPM/ Deg C Material -------------- ------------------------ 3600 Flexiforce Sensor 3700 Gold 3800 Aluminum 4000 Copper 660 Palladium Silver Ink (Dupont 6134) 3350 Pure Silver Ink (Dupont 6160) How could the sensor have a "better" TCR than gold? What might one use in a Wheatstone bridge with this sensor? The specs are absolute and utter garbage, just like the FSR sensors as an entire product category if you had any idea of using them for any sort of quantitative measurement. Yes, they can be used to make qualitative comparisons, but not anything one could dignify with the term "measurement". ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 20:07:16 -0500 Reply-To: james.fischer@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: superboost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The impact of brood pheromone has been known for a long time, the trick in this product was packaging - how to keep the volatiles from volatizing off too quickly. A few thoughts about this "performance enhancing drug": It will be interesting to see how the product sells to beekeepers, who are, ummm... ahhh... paid per hive. Ooops. Did anyone think this one through clearly? Can anyone in beekeeping ever be accused of "marketing"? With the product, one could expect to see a the same job done by less hives, on the same planting. Sounds this product might prompt some reconsideration and renegotiation of the whole fee structure thingy. So, I'd say that the actual "market" for this product would be the grower, rather than the beekeeper. Beekeepers should be on the lookout for reduced counts in requests from growers, or increased acres without an increase in hive count. For all you know, the grower might sneak some of this "bee speed" into your hives when your back is turned. Gedankenexperiment time: If you are putting your bees on multiple crops, each in succession, the first crop may be better pollinated, but if bees are foraging earlier when under the influence of excessive brood pheromone, doesn't this imply that there will be fewer (surviving) foragers for subsequent crops? Its a jungle out there, and casualty rates among foragers are not so good many times. One has to wonder if the queen could "keep up" with this for long, or if the hive will loose population as a result. And at some point, all that extra pollen that the bees are collecting to feed all that imaginary brood... goes where, exactly? Well, it clogs up the brood frames, doesn't it? Welcome to pollen-bound operations. At some point, where does the queen lay? I'm not sure what one does with pollen-clogged frames when every hive has them. And pollen has a odor, perhaps even a named pheromone. Anyone know for sure? I'm way out of date in this area. At some point, wouldn't enough pollen accumulate that the brood pheromone would no longer prompt excessive collection? One thing that I've seen over and over is that queenless colonies seem to pack in the pollen like no tomorrow. I've often wondered about taking a small split (including queen) out of a colony before deploying for pollination as a way of leveraging this queenless behavior, but then I got real about the labor required for doing it. Seems easier to just give each hive what it needs to be the biggest, baddest hive it can be, and stay out of trying to trick them into collecting more pollen, when what is wanted is not "collection" but inadvertent spreading of pollen by pollen and nectar foragers. But for a pollen-trap equipped hive... I'm tempted. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 04:31:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Howe Subject: screened bottom boards in winter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear people, I am in the northeast (New York City) and have screened bottom boards on = my hives located on a windy rooftop. I am in a real dither about covering the screens or not. After = extensive googling on the Internet, I find a real split between those = who are afraid of drafts (cold being the worst enemy) and hence cover = them and those who leave them open (dampness being the real enemy). What = do you advise? John Howe ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:50:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Fergusson Subject: Re: Where to get scale hive In-Reply-To: <4734B446.5090009@russianbreeder.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I love this subject. I discovered through experiment that the distribution of stores within a hive can greatly affect the weight derived by simply weighing one end of a hive and multiplying by 2. Better to weigh both sides and add them together. I think the basic manometer approach is the way to go because it's simple and in theory has no moving parts. My first proof-of-concept experiment involved a piece of surgical rubber tubing about 10' long filled with water with a glass pipette stuck in one end. The tubing was coiled into a loose spiral under a hive with the pipette taped vertically to a corner of the hive. It worked, after a fashion. The Some time ago I searched the BEE-L archives and came up with this message which nicely describes a manometer for weighing hives made from a plastic bag used in those cardboard wine boxes: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9610B&L=BEE-L&P=R5349&I=-3 George- ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 10:08:44 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: screened bottom boards Comments: To: john.howe@EARTHLINK.NET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John I've never had to close the bottom board myself, but I do lay something as a wind break for the screened bottom board. But of course your area may be different. I suggest leave it open they will be fine and in my opinion they will do better. I've given this to our state VP as he has hives on a windy hill top. Russ Dean webmaster _West Virginia Beekeepers Association_ (http://www.wvbeekeepers.org/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 10:51:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: screened bottom boards In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You will get a variety of answers to this depending on where the beekeeper is located. My tests in Maine lead me to close the screened bottoms. They do survive but you have smaller colonies going into the spring. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 15:51:04 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: superboost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Imagine a device placed in bee hives that stimulates worker bees to forage for pollen faster and more often, resulting in more pollination events and greater crop yield. A pollen trap has the same effect. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:14:41 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: screened bottom boards in winter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I am in a real dither about covering the screens or not. I am east of you. I place a sheet of 1" white styrofoam (reclycled packing material) under the screened bottom boards to block drafts. Top ventilation & insulation is provided (a critical element) to prevent water condensation in the hives. The entrance reducer opening is left open 3-4" wide x 1/4" high in the center to supply fresh air. I have not head any problems with moisture or mold since I've gone to this set-up. Strong colonies with great stores will survive winters with the open screened bottoms but they will consume a lot more to keep the cluster alive. Colonies with smaller bee numbers and/or stores are likely to suffer a cold death. >>I find a real split between those who are afraid of drafts (cold being the worst enemy) and hence cover them and those who leave them open (dampness being the real enemy). It's best to ask the bees. :) In the wild, they don't like drafts but have a top vent of some sort even if it's just dry rotten wood overhead in a tree. Moisture and wet cold are a killer. Especially if the hives are fed late and the bees are still trying to evaporate water from the syrup after temps drop. Waldemar What do you advise? John Howe ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:41:49 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: screened bottom boards in winter In-Reply-To: <20071110.081441.7198.1@webmail02.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Waldemar > In the wild, they don't like drafts but have a top vent of some sort even if it's just dry rotten wood overhead in a tree. Can you give your source for this ? Any upper entrances in trees I have ever seen are always propolised shut. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://www.dave-cushman.net (http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman) Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.01/2.01 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:42:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "carimona@GMAIL.COM" Subject: Re: Colony stacking and winter insulation. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i live in the upper midwest and winter 300 colonies, some 2 deeps and some singles. the 2 deep colonies get pushed together into a 4 pack on a pallet. each colony gets a built rite fiber insulation board over the inner cover then a sheet of black poly or tarpaper over the top and sides leaving the 2 front sides of the 4 pack exposed. the other important feature is having two openings to vent condensation top and bottom. for stacked singles we remove the inner cover from the bottom deep and install a screened spacer board between the two and then wrap as described above. i don't worry much about insualtion as i have 6 frames of bees minimum in each and combine any weak ones. single deeps that are not stacked i do place on foam insulation boards and wrap in 4 packs. the other big factor is location, location, location. higher ground with good air ventilation facing south with a wind break from the NW is what i look for in a winter yard. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 13:19:43 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Owen Watson Subject: Albino bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I'm looking thru an old (1890) household cyclopedia and reading their beekeeping section where they discuss bee races. The one they enthuse most about are albino bees : "surpass all others for gathering honey". I've never heard about albino bees (apart from the genetic sports) and an internet search doesn't get me much: are these called something else now? The races it lists are albino, black, cyprian, egyptian, and italian. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 23:02:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Darrell Subject: Re: screened bottom boards in winter In-Reply-To: <00ee01c8237c$78abc8e0$020fa8c0@john> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 10-Nov-07, at 4:31 AM, John Howe wrote: > Dear people, > I am in the northeast (New York City) and have screened bottom > boards on my hives located on a windy rooftop. Hi John and all Wind is your problem. I have used screened bottom boards open to the ground on most of my hives for several years. My hives are located in a deep valley beside a river that flows all year so I figure that moisture is my problem. I shovel snow around the bottom of the hives when it gets very cold(-20C to -30C). I think that if you can protect your hives from the wind blowing past , you can leave your bottoms open. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 07:51:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Colony stacking and winter insulation. In-Reply-To: <20071108.044656.26716.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > What about the lower colonies - do they need some top insulation > or will the higher colony act as sufficient insulation and prevent > moisture condensation below? That's how I see it. The top colony acts as the inner cover insulation for the bottom. >[I will provide the lower colonies with some top ventilation into >the higher colonies.] I don't think the bottom colony should be vented into the bottom colony. They don't need all that extra moisture. Rather, I place the bottom colony's inner rim down and notch to the front...as an upper entrance. Close the escape hole, and moisture goes out the upper entrance. Then...add a second inner with the rim up and notch to the rear. This acts as the upper colony's bottom board and bottom entrance. I place a third inner on top of the top colony, rim down and notch to the rear. Acts as the top colony's upper entrance. I wrap the whole stack, keeping all the entrances open. Mike ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 05:55:20 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Study: Honey Could Play 'Important Role' in Preventing Cell Damage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Study: Honey Could Play 'Important Role' in Preventing Cell Damage Influence of Honey on the Suppression of Human Low Density Lipoprotein (LDL) Peroxidation (In vitro) Evidence-based Compl. and Alt. Medicine, 10/18/2007 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/11/study-honey-could-play-important-role.html …Our study provides (for the first time) primary evidence suggesting that these honeys in further in vivo studies could play an important role in inhibiting lipid peroxidation in biological systems through their antioxidant, metal chelating and free radical scavenging activities… ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 05:22:49 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Duquette Subject: Re: screened bottom boards in winter In-Reply-To: <3A6D4FDE-5286-47DC-A830-5808E67EAC86@interlog.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I live in upstate NY and have been keeping bees for six years. I switched to screened bottom boards in my second year, but placed them back on solid bottom boards with an entrance reducer for the Winter. I have read recently that some studies show little or no reduction in varroa infestation with the use of screened bottom boards. I recently met a fellow who was the son of an old-time beekeeper, and he showed me old hive bodies with a 1/2" hole drilled through just over the front hand-hold of the top super for ventilation in the Winter. He said they used to plug it with a cork when Spring came, and remove it for the Winter. Charles Duquette Greenville, NY 12083 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 08:25:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Where to get scale hive In-Reply-To: <7CCF74A48C5C4A4D88927E094DFD9A60@bobPC> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > Hello Jim & All, >At least two BEE=L commercial beekeepers use scales to weigh hives for >various reasons. Michael Palmer and myself. Maybe Michael Palmer will >comment? > I think Michael uses the mechanical Grainger scale. I am not sure but >looked like the mechanical Grainger scale from the website photos. Been away at the ESHPA meeting. Good time! Yes, I do use the spring scale sold in the WW Grainger catalog. This is my post on Bee Source about feeding bees for winter. I've found that weighing each hive, gives me a much more accurate method of determining how much to feed. It also gives me an end of the year weight. The weight of honey harvested, minus the weight of the syrup fed, gives me a better indication of colony production...to be used for breeder queen selection. Hope this simplifies an easy procedure that has really been over engineered on the previous posts. It really isn't rocket science. :-) Mike >>On a recent thread, it was asked, "How much to feed my bees...until they won't take any more?" I said that I thought you can feed too much. Too much is wastful, and not good for the bees, as it plugs the broodnest. Of course, not everyone will agree. That's OK. Afterall, this is about beekeeping, and beekeeping is local, and everyone has their own opinion and spin. Opinions aside, I would like to show how I approach the problen of "How much to feed for winter." Most of us lift the backs of the hives, to judge how much weight the bees have. Very light hives, and very heavy hives are easily judged as being light or heavy. The borderline hives are not so easy to tell. Also, not everyone has the same upper body strength. So, Your heavy might be another's medium. When not sure, feed, right? Feed a couple gallons...just to make sure? If I fed all my colonies a couple extra gallong..."Just to make sure," I could easily spend thousands of dollars...dollars coming right off my bottom line for the year. How to come closer to the correct weight? Weigh your hives. Through trial and error, come up with a target weight. A weight that will allow your bees to get through whatever winter it is that you have in your beekeeping area. Feed light hives enough to reach that target weight. When I first started weighing hives in the fall (1983), I used a simple spring scale. http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...ringscale1.jpg This setup worked well, although it required two people to weigh each hive. http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...ringscale2.jpg After some 20 years of weighing hives in this manor, I found that my shoulders were toast!. I still have trouble reaching around for the seatbelt, or raising my arms over my head. I really had to find another way. I thought long and hard, but always with the idea of lifting each hive to weigh it. The idea came to me in my sleep...or half sleep...as many ideas do. Why lift the hive? Now I use a commercial package scale. Instead of lifting the hives, I tip them up onto the scale. I just finished weighing and feeding on Wednesday. I go ahead of my crew, and weigh each hive, marking the weight on the back of the hive...next to the other statistics fot the current year. My help comes through with syrup and feeders the next day. This is a shot of the scale I use. http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...kagescale1.jpg You would have to work with whatever type hive stand you use. I use 2x4 stands, which are the same height as my outer covers. I lay the hives outer cover on the ground, at the end of the stand. Note the scale is on a piece of plywood...so it can sit on the stand. I also have a small piece of plywood on the scale..to help spread out the weight. This stand only has one hive, so I use the stand to hold the scale. http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...kagescale2.jpg Tip the hive sideways, and slide the scale under the raised edge of the bottom board. http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...hinghives1.jpg http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...hinghives2.jpg Tip the hive up onto the scale, read the weight, let the hive down, and remove the scale. http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...hinghives3.jpg As you can see, even tall hives, and those weighing 200+ pounds, can be weighed with little effort. So, what's your target weight? Mine has been 150 for many years, but I've noticed more light hives in the spring in recent years, so this year I raised my target to 160. Not sure if this increased consumption is due to the weather, or my breeding program selecting for strong, broody bees. Probably the later. 10 pounds extra weight is surely worth the cost, when considering the difference in honey production between the spring brood counts in colonies wirh 5 or 6 combs of brood at Dandelion, and those with 9 or 10. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 08:36:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Yoon_Sik_Kim?= Subject: Re: screened bottom boards in winter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, all: Earlier someone on this list joked that we ought to ask the bees if they like screened bottom boards (SSB) or not. Well, I have, sort of. Since I ranch my bugs in Oklahoma (typically classified as American Southwest), I have converted all of my bottom boards into SSB’s, but not 100 % in configuration. What I have done was to recycle the old wood bottoms so that the front and the back of my SBB’s retain a palm of recycled old bottom pieces. Of course, the front piece extends out to serve as the landing board while the back piece provides overall structural integrity. Hence, about two thirds of my screened bottoms are open-screened (middle) whereas one third still has some measure of the wood at the back and at the front. The result over a period of seven years has been that strong colonies tend to plug up the screens with propolis, almost in its entirety, especially in the late winter and early spring, coinciding with spring buildup, to cut down the draft during that time, typically the coldest time of the winter. The bees don’t seem to realize, however, how hot it can get later in summer around here because once they plugged up the screens, there is no easy way to re-open the grid-cells in the screen. No, I have not provided them any draft-breaker underneath because, on the one hand, I do not want them to consume too much store in our relatively mild winter by warming them up too much (imagine having to feed them in the midnight of winter) and on the other, they have been wintering well, particularly with heavy store atop which provides a great R-value in bee- terms. (The greatest winter-loss across the country, in my opinion, still results from starvation, not CCD, mites, nosema, or operator error. To digress a little further, I have been open-feeding since late September; in fact, even as I type this note, I can see my bees tornado at the watering hole right outside of my study, where I intentionally set the barrel next to the window. Sure, strong colonies will come out of winter with two deeps of bees, if not more, allowing me to make late February splits, about two months ahead of the flow. Black locust starts to pop around April 19th around here, signaling the start of the season. These splits, in turn, allow me to make up any typically light winter-loss. Also, surplus frames of syrup-honey is an excellent boost for the splits or much later for swarm-capture colonies) But the above observation of bees’ plugging up the screen seem to indicate that a diligent beekeeper, like many of you on this thread, might want to provide some form of insulation particularly at the end of winter to kick start the brood-rearing, but not before. Yoon ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 10:50:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Albino bees Comments: To: Owen Watson Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello O. M. Watson, Albino bees are basically, 3 banded white striped Italians, popular in the late 1800‘s. I had the ‘albino bees’ article from 1891 saved in my ‘to be edited files’, slated to be posted on the ‘Historical Honeybee Articles’ site. I gave it top priority so I may post the article here first. Please be aware that the historical articles I post are meant to give an understanding of the “beekeeping knowledge and beliefs at the time“. Here on Bee-L, as is customary, the article may be picked to pieces for ‘terrible errors’ it may contain. But keep in mind that I post it as 'beekeeping knowledge and beliefs at the time', and perhaps it should be simply accepted as such in all it‘s historical beauty. On the Historical Honeybee Article site, I refrain as much as possible from commenting on any articles posted, instead, allowing the reader to interpret the information as their understanding permits, be it a tall tale, embellished material or factual. But I would like to take rare exemption from this policy to ask the reader to please take note that, ’at the time’ they describe the Albino bees as being “good defenders of their home” as well as having the “gentleness” trait. Interesting that in the time, they felt important that bees need the trait of gentleness as well as defensive behavior, two traits that perhaps beekeepers now a days might be assumed in conflict. Homestead, The Friday, December 11, 1891 Des Moines, Iowa Albino Bees. MR. EDITOR :—Many have expressed a desire to know something about the habits, color and origin of the Albino bees. Our observation and experience with these bees corroborates the opinion that they are a strain of the Italians, or that they sprang from an Italian sport. The honor of bringing out this now race is claimed by A. Pike, who says that late in the fall a queen was reared from a colony of Italian bees and allowed to remain with the colony until spring, when it was found that about one-half of her working progeny was mildly marked Italian bees, and the other half were marked in the following manner: Beginning at the waist they first have three distinct yellow bands, then three distinct white bands. The white is pure, not muddy or dirty, the wings are finer and of a bright silvery color, and their shoulders and under part of the abdomen are very thickly coated with white hair. As soon as this was noticed the breeding out process was commenced, using the greatest care to get them pure, if possible. They were removed to a place where they were not likely to come in contact with other bees, and kept there until they reproduced themselves with all the markings of the pure Albino. Then by close watching and careful examinations until no Italian bees, or any bees bearing any other marks than those of the Albino were found among them, it was considered that they were in their purity and would not breed back to Italians. Their habits are somewhat the same as the Italians, but for gentleness they surpass the Italians, being very quiet and easy to handle, requiring very little smoke. Instead of taking fight on the removal of a comb from the hive they cluster close to it, thus showing no desire to leave it, and if the combs are not too carelessly removed the queens, instead of hiding, proceed with their laying, showing no signs of being disturbed. As a usual thing the queens are largo and beautiful. They are a bright reddish yellow and generally have the white hair as described in the workers. As to their breeding, the queens are very prolific and fill the combs very compactly with brood. These bees are good workers, good defenders of their home, strong of wing, as well as good providers for winter stores. Since introducing the Albinos into my apiary in 1884 I have never found it necessary to feed them for winter, while my Italians and Blacks have several times had to be fed that they might winter safely. The drones are large, red-banded, and covered with white hair underneath. The Albinos differ from Italians in color by approaching nearer purple about the eyes, and by having white or Ivory colored rings around the body, which gives them a silvery appearance and which caused Prof. Eastman to remark, "What a fine, silvery appearance they have." These bees are less inclined to swarm than the Italians, which is a commendable trait. I can say as S. Valentine remarked, that for beauty, gentleness, honey gathering and all that is desirable in a bee, the Albino has no superior known to the American apiarist. Sheffield, Illinois. A. L. Kildow. (Mr. Kildow is one of the most extensive breeders of these bees in the United States.—EDITOR). ==== I also found a supplier for Albino Bees ;) ====== San Antonio Light, The Saturday, May 24, 1884 San Antonio, Texas NOTICE! Swarms of Bees and Queens for Sale. One Italian or Albino Queen, $3.50 One purely mated Albino Queen, $4 00. Packing swarms $1 00 extra. None but guaranteed pure gold. P. P. LINNARTZ. Orders for above, also for extracted honey, to be left at Nie Tengg’s. ========== Best Wishes, Joe Waggle ~ Derry, PA http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles “Keep plenty of cows and bees, as the surest way of having milk and honey. Confine your cows with a good fence but let your bees go at large.” -American Farmer, ‘Hints to Farmers‘ - 1831 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 09:47:20 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Where to get scale hive In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20071111081156.03ce8c98@together.net > MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Michael & All, I think if you would go to the Mann Lake tool for moving hives Michael you might make your job easier. Maybe not? My beekeepeing partner and I love our hive moving tool! When we first purchased around five years ago we had a thirteen year old boy moving hives from one pallet to the other with one hand. For decades we either moved these hives by hand lifting or with a tool made for two people to use. The tool has two settings. The upper is for moving hives from pallet to pallet. When deciding which hives go to California or into pollination we grade each hive. 1-2 or 3. We use the tool to move the number one grade hives onto the same pallet. I use the tool to simply lift the hive off the pallet and sit on the scale. I never remove the hive from the tool. Then sit back on the pallet. With the remote reader I do not need to reach under and trip the hold on the scale or read the scale by letting go of the tool. I mark the weight on the hive. My beekeeping partner still tips and guesses but I have weighed a few of his guesses and he is not off by much. I am not so sure his help would be as accurate. His main use of the tool is moving hives around using only a single person. Sincerely, Bob Harrison -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 11:03:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: superboost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>>Imagine a device placed in bee hives that stimulates worker bees to forage for pollen faster and more often, resulting in more pollination events and greater crop yield. I guess it's not really a device, but chemicals. Pheromones and plant extracts that mimic them have been tried on bees for at least 15 years. I wonder if anyone in this group has used them? Either as swarms lures, attractants to plants, or even in the hive like they suggest. Just looking for some first-hand info. Peter B ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 15:42:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Where to get scale hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob Harrison wrote: >Hello Michael & All, >I think if you would go to the Mann Lake tool for moving hives Michael you >might make your job easier. Maybe not? I have weighed hives by the method described by Mike Palmer. It is so easy that I don't see how it could be any easier. Peter B ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 16:48:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Where to get scale hive In-Reply-To: <0447839C6C964D6ABD108232CFA76517@bobPC> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > Hello Michael & All, >I think if you would go to the Mann Lake tool for moving hives Michael you >might make your job easier. Maybe not? Bob, you're making this seem more difficult than it is. Really! All you do is tip the hive to the side, and insert the scale. Tip the hive onto the scale and read weight. No reaching underneath, lifting the hive onto the scale, or anything like that. Also, no need for any extra equipment. Mike ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 17:57:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Where to get scale hive In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20071111164602.01b99338@together.net > MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Michael and All, Your way might be easier for your hives but not for hives on pallets with clips. Until you have seen one of the Mann Lake tools work you might think lifting and tilting and sliding is easier. Remember My hives are strong and you are trying to slide a scale under a hive body without a bottom board. You can not tilt the hive back or to the side enough to get a scale under to weigh. Even if you could way too much work when an easier method is available. My method has to be faster than yours. My scale can sit in one place while the whole pallet is weighed (one hiva at a time) . At times several pallets with hives. Withn the Mann Lake tool we move hives 50-100 feet to put on other skids. You can move a hive as fast as you can walk and I have moved hives in three hive bodies and heavy with honey. The electronic scale can be read easily at a glance. When I used the scale you use I had trouble reading the weight without getting down to peer under the plywwod. Weighing hives on the pallet I have never seen done (other than a spring scale and doubling the result). Beekeepers always *think* their method is the easiest until they *see* first hand an easier method. Your method might work for hives on bottom boards but does not work for hives on pallets. The hives have to come off the pallet because of the 8 pallet clips, the closeness of the hives and the nanrrow strip alnong the outside edge of the pallet. I started not to reply but in the interest of learning I will. If you and Peter still do not understand what I am talking about ask and I will try and explain further. In fact with the hive moving tool you could *using two people* simply pick the hive up , slide the scale under, sit back down and weigh, lift the hive back up and remove the scale . However still not as easy as my method which is leave the scale in one place and bring the hive to the scale.. bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:09:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Where to get scale hive In-Reply-To: <8ACB44B385F347D2AE06CAB457242C43@bobPC> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >Beekeepers always *think* their method is the easiest until they >*see* first hand an easier method. Exactly, Bob ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 05:53:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Aussie Bees Cleared of US Colony Collapse? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Aussie Bees Cleared of US Colony Collapse? Anna Salleh, ABC Science Online, 11/12/2007 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/11/aussie-bees-cleared-of-us-colony.html Claims that Australia exported a virus that may have caused US bee colonies to collapse have been questioned with the release of new scientific findings. Dr Jay Evans and Dr Yanping Chen of the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) question the role of the bee virus in the so-called Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD). Their study has found the suspect virus was already in the country before Australian imports started… ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 08:46:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Abnormal brood temperature affects bee dances and orientation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings One possible cause of honey bee disappearance has received little attention. Brood that is exposed to unfavorable temperatures can result in "brain damaged" bees which are unable to function normally. This was suggested by Ben Oldroyd: > Remarkably, honey bees maintain the temperature of their brood nest within ± 0.5 °C of 34.5 °C [94.1 F], despite major fluctuations in ambient temperature. If the brood is incubated a little outside this range, the resulting adults are normal physically, but show deficiencies in learning and memory. Workers reared at suboptimal temperatures tend to get lost in the field, and can't perform communication dances effectively . Although entirely a hypothesis, I suspect that if colonies were unable to maintain optimal brood nest temperatures, CCD-like symptoms would be apparent. ( "What's Killing American Honey Bees?" Benjamin P. Oldroyd. www.plosbiology.org ) * * * Martin Lindauer writes: > It has been known for many years that honey bees hatch and progress through a number of stages within the hive during which they will carry out various tasks ranging through cell cleaning, nursing, comb building, entrance guarding, and foraging. It is also known that although cell cleaning and foraging are the specialties of the youngest and the oldest bees, the bees between these extremes carry out a number of different tasks and will frequently switch from one task to another in a short space of time. Different individuals also will spend different amounts of time on in-hive activities compared with outside activities whereas others may never forage at all. The reason for these differences between bees has been the subject of speculation, and we would suggest here that the temperature regime to which they were subjected as pupae may play an important role. > Bees raised artificially at constant temperatures on the lower end of the naturally occurring brood nest temperature range perform less well in dance communication and scent learning. Under natural conditions, this would lead to ''bad dancers,'' as von Frisch termed forager bees with a low probability to dance and those performing only few dance circuits compared with ''good dancers'' (unpublished protocols by K. von Frisch, available from J.T.). Such behavior will lead to less nectar inflow into the colony because no dances or short dances with only few circuits will attract no or few recruits. Also, a highly variable waggle phase should guide recruited bees to areas scattered around the goal because the feeder distance is coded by the duration of the waggle phase. > We have qualitative evidence that exposing the pupae of bees to a temperature of 32°C may have a more far-reaching effect than producing poor dancers. Of the 80 bees that were treated at 32°C and introduced to the observation hive, only very few remained at the end of the 2-week period. The others apparently left the hive and never returned. One could speculate that these animals, seemingly perfectly able to carry out the in-hive nest duties, had trouble finding their way back to the hive after undertaking their orientation flights, and, indeed, some of these bees were found in hives in the neighborhood of their own. The learning and memory consolidation tests confirm that not only are the 32°C-raised bees poor dancers, they also are bad learners. Learning and memory consolidation, therefore, do appear to be critically important for foraging. > To investigate the possible consequences of brood-temperature regulation in honey bee colonies on the quality of behavioral performance of adults, we placed honey bee pupae in incubators and allowed them to develop at temperatures held constant at 32°C, 34.5°C, and 36°C. This temperature range occurs naturally within hives. On emergence, the young adult bees were marked and introduced into foster colonies housed in normal and observation hives and allowed to live out their lives. No obvious difference in within-hive behavior was noted between the temperature-treated bees and the foster-colony bees. > However, when the temperature-treated bees became foragers and were trained to visit a feeder 200 m from the hive, they exhibited clear differences in dance performance that could be correlated with the temperatures at which they had been raised: bees raised at 32°C completed only 20% of the dance circuits when compared with bees of the higher-temperature group. Also, the variance in the duration of the waggle phase is larger in 32°C-raised bees compared with 36°C-raised bees. All other parameters compared across all groups were not significantly different. > Bees raised at 36°C performed as expected for bees typically classified as "good learners," whereas bees raised at 32°C and 34.5°C performed significantly less well. We propose that the temperature at which pupae are raised will influence their behavioral performance as adults and may determine the tasks they carry out best inside and outside the hive. ( "Behavioral performance in adult honey bees is influenced by the temperature experienced during their pupal development." Communicated by Martin Lindauer, University of Würzburg, Würzburg, Germany, April 21, 2003 ) * * * This is confirmed by research by Claudia Groh, et al: > In the present study, we investigated whether small changes in the temperature normally maintained during pupal development of honey bees may influence the synaptic maturation in the developing nervous system. The results show that different rearing temperatures cause area- and modality-specific effects on synaptic complexes within the mushroom bodies (MBs), higher integration centers in the insect brain. Effects occurred within the range of temperatures normally maintained by brood-temperature control. Potential consequences of changes in the synaptic circuitry for neuronal plasticity and behavioral performance are discussed. ( "Synaptic organization in the adult honey bee brain is influenced by brood-temperature control during pupal development." Claudia Groh, Jurgen Tautz, and Wolfgang Rossler. www.pnas.org ) ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 08:53:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Aussie Bees Cleared of US Colony Collapse? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Australian bee expert Dr Doug Somerville of New South Wales Department of Primary Industries says: "Australian packages only arrived on the US shore in 2005 so the linkage with Australia is just garbage." * That's fair. > Somerville thinks the role of IAPV is "academic". "Bees are suffering a whole range of other issues which are probably far more serious," he says. * Well, now, we don't know which is the most serious, do we? > He says Australian bees tend to feed on native flora rather than the pesticide sprayed weeds and crops of US bees. * Whoops! Went over the deep end! -- Peter ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:34:51 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Colony stacking and winter insulation. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>[in stacked colonies for the winter] Close the escape hole, and moisture goes out the upper entrance. Then...add a second inner with the rim up and notch to the rear. This acts as the upper colony's bottom board and bottom entrance. I run stacked nucs - 2 per a deep box => 4 per a 2 deep-stack - with corner entrances all facing south in the summer. Any drifting seems negligible. With a double colony stack with entrances facing in opposite directions, I would concerned with upper colony to the rear or north in winter. Would the bees in those colonies be less inclined to take cleansing flights on semi-warm days since their entrance would in cold shade? Or somewhat hypothermic bees returning to a cold entrance might collapse there and not make it inside. Do you see any of this? Thank you. Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 09:00:36 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Abnormal bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Peter brings up the subject of abnormal bees. One of my favorite subjects. I have discussed abnormal bees with some of the best beekeeping minds in the U.S. and around the world. What is missing from the information Peter posted is the methods the beekeeper can use to detect abnormal bees. Quite a bit of research stops short of giving the beekeeper the signs the researchers saw doing the research. I am going out the door as today will be a busy day as yesterday afternoon was but will do a post on the subject later. abnormal bees or the hive which never gets going. I am not speaking of laying workers, drone laying queens or queenless hives. We all know about those. When starting new colonies and you get a hive dropping back from the others below was Dr. Delaplane's solution: Dr. Delaplane replaces the queen. (from his video dealing with two out of 10 new queens) . How common are abnormal bees? How can we detect abnormal bees? What are the signs? Will they ever do better? What do commercial beekeepers do with those colonies? What do commercial beekeepers think are the different causes? comments? What are the opinions as every beekeeper which has had even a couple hives have seen what I call abnormal hives or "dinks"? What are the ways others on the list deal with abnormal bees? bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 09:17:48 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Aussie Bees Cleared of US Colony Collapse? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> He says Australian bees tend to feed on native flora rather than the > pesticide sprayed weeds and crops of US bees. > * Whoops! Went over the deep end! Crops I agree with but not so sure about sprayed weeds but I do have problems with bee kills from weed spraying. I think there is truth to his answer about feeding on the native flora. I am starting to practice many of the methods commercial beekeepers in Australia practice. Those beekeepers said from the start of the CCD issue to quit feeding HFCS and artificial pollen substitute and move bees on to flows. Advice I have tried with success. Holding yards are not the best places for bees! Thousands of hives in one spot. Very little feed is given Australian bees. Instead the migratory beekeepers are constantly moving hives as soon as the floral sources dry up. In their own words they say: "Moving hives onto flows is well worth the labor and diesel costs!" I get a good laugh every time I read the advertisement for the new bee diet! Better than real pollen! I have NEVER seen a pollen patty the bees will not stop using when fresh pollen becomes available! bob -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:37:32 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: screened bottom boards in winter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>In the wild, they don't like drafts but have a top vent of some sort even if it's just dry rotten wood overhead in a tree. >Can you give your source for this ? >Any upper entrances in trees I have ever seen are always propolised shut. I am relaying personal observations. Most tree colonies I've worked with had a single entry hole. Inside the hollow above the colony, there is typically a dead wood core of the tree. In my opinion, this dry wood (without direct opening to the outside) acts like a sponge for the moisture generated by the wintering cluster. I came across only one tree colony that was only 3 feet up from the ground. There was a main entrance hole the size of a man's fist. The tree was decaying from the inside and, during bee vaccing, I noticed some bees using a couple of holes perhaps 3/8" in diameter when my body was in the way of the main entrance. Those extra holes were not propolised but the were located 6-10" above the top of the combs that were attached to the dry wood canopy. Back in my early days, when I followed advice to drill 1" vent holes under the hive body handles, the bees would certainly propolise these as long as they were close to the nest. These days I use full footprint screen on top of the hives for ventillation. The best summer method in my opinion. The bees will often propolise large swatch of the screens starting from the corners and seal a lot of the center area with wax in the late summer when nights become cooler. There will be some area unsealed though. I meant to ask - do you get many/any feral colonies in trees or structure in the UK? Waldemar ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:47:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Colony stacking and winter insulation. In-Reply-To: <20071112.063451.14856.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > Or somewhat hypothermic bees returning to a cold entrance might > collapse there and not make it inside. Do you see any of this? No, not really. ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:45:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Aussie Bees Cleared of US Colony Collapse? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob wrote: >>> He says Australian bees tend to feed on native flora rather than the pesticide sprayed weeds and crops of US bees. > >> * Whoops! Went over the deep end! > >Crops I agree with but not so sure about sprayed weeds but I do have problems with bee kills from weed spraying. Come on now. Like, they don't spray crops in Australia? The big honey producer in this country is sweet clover. Is that sprayed? Most of the honey around here comes from things like black locust, wild raspberry, basswood, Japanese knotweed, goldenrod, etc. None of it sprayed. In San Diego, I used to get eucalyptus, black sage, wild buckwheat, etc. None of it sprayed. The guy obviously knows nothing about US honey plants. pb ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:07:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Malcolm T. Sanford" Subject: Global Bee Breeders Association Comments: cc: beeactor@earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear Folks, There's been a lot of speculation and discussion about bee breeding on this list over the last few months. You may wish to know that at the 40th Apimondia a global bee breeding association formed in an attempt to organize queen breeders across the globe. See the following for further information http://gbba.vze.com/ and http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/gbba/. I will be promoting membership in this group at several venues in the next year. It has similar goals for bee breeding that the international packers organization has for honey brokers and buyers http://www.hipa.org.uk/. Your comments are solicited. Malcolm T. Sanford Dr. Malcolm T. Sanford Retired Extension Apiculturist, Professor Emeritus University of Florida Subscribe to the revamped Apis newsletter http://apis.shorturl.com/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:42:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Malcolm T. Sanford" Subject: Global Bee Breeders Association Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear Folks, There's been a lot of speculation and discussion about bee breeding on this list over the last few months. You may wish to know that at the 40th Apimondia a global bee breeding association formed in an attempt to organize queen breeders across the globe. See the following for further information http://gbba.vze.com/ and http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/gbba/. I will be promoting membership in this group at several venues in the next year. It has similar goals for bee breeding that the international packers organization has for honey brokers and buyers http://www.hipa.org.uk/. Your comments are solicited. Malcolm T. Sanford Dr. Malcolm T. Sanford Retired Extension Apiculturist, Professor Emeritus University of Florida Subscribe to the revamped Apis newsletter http://apis.shorturl.com/ ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:52:58 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: screened bottom boards in winter In-Reply-To: <20071112.073732.15948.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Waldemar > Most tree colonies I've worked with had a single entry hole. Inside the hollow above the colony, there is typically a dead wood core of the tree. In my opinion, this dry wood (without direct opening to the outside) acts like a sponge for the moisture generated by the wintering cluster. I have no problem with that, but water being wicked away by timber fibres is not the same as a top vent which would allow gas to exit and promote actual airflow. > I noticed some bees using a couple of holes perhaps 3/8" in diameter... > Those extra holes were not propolised but the were located 6-10" above the top of the combs I have seen holes and cracks in this position, but they were propolised shut. I have also seen vents in the top of a full colony observation hive that were propolised, but the bees re opened the holes when they needed to, what I would like to know is... Once a hole has been sealed, how do they know where the hole is to unblock it ? The pattern of propolising of OMF (screened bottom board) is similar to that you describe for above the colony, but only occurs very rarely in UK (1% or less) once the process has started it seems to gather momentum. It does occur if you leave a monitoring board in place, because a build up of wax moth dross occurs under the mesh and then the bees seal it up. > do you get many/any feral colonies in trees or structure in the UK? We get colonies in trees and church walls, but it would be difficult to describe them as feral, they are beekeeper escapees and die out (assumed due to varroa) then the same cavity is re occupied by a swarm and many casual observers would say that the site has been in continuous occupancy. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://www.dave-cushman.net (http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman) Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.01/2.01 ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:53:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Bee Trees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> Most tree colonies I've worked with had a single entry hole. Inside the hollow above the colony, there is typically a dead wood core of the tree. Finding bees in trees is always very interesting. But one should refrain from assuming the bees have picked the ideal home. It may be the best choice among the few choices available. Living in San Diego, I once saw a colony of bees living in a below ground cave. I doubt that was ideal, but they evidently decided it was the best they could do. I often saw swarms living in bushes. I figured they simply gave up looking for a suitable place and stayed where they were. pb ****************************************************** * Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm * ******************************************************