From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:14:05 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.9 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC0A6490A9 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3Y7U017265 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0810C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 170565 Lines: 4123 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 22:51:54 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 millio n. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > they are going to cut down the infested trees, > and treat the rest with injected imidacloprid. > 90% of the trees in the city of worcester are > norway maples. This sort of treatment has been tried by APHIS in New York, New Jersey, and Chicago, so APHIS should have some sort of data on the potential for detectable levels in nectar and pollen. The good news is that ONLY maples are being injected with imidacloprid in Worcester for now, at least according to the Telegram: http://www.telegram.com/article/20081006/NEWS/810060334/-1/BEETLES Maples bloom really, really early. So early, most beekeepers don't even notice the subtle color change in the trees because they are too busy shoveling snow. Getting any sort of crop from maple is impossible most years due simply to weather that keeps the bees grounded during the entire bloom period. (My experience was a maximum of one in about every four years in VA, and I've yet to attempt it in New York.) So, all that needs to be done is to warn off the tiny number of beekeepers with the experience, skills, and motivation to work their bees in the snow to get a crop of maple honey. Perhaps they should not make the attempt until more is known about the impact of having a maple tree mainlining imidacloprid. Further, there appears to be enough time between the blooming of the hardwoods that the beetle likes and the spring emergence of the first beetles to prompt one to wonder why any trees would need to be injected until after the trees bloom. So, Dean himself has nothing to worry about, but beekeepers near Wooster who deploy feeders in early spring and fly purebred pedigree queens may want to ask about bloom dates versus treatment dates. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 23:35:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Question: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank Do sub-lethal doses of pesticide amplify the effects of = parasites, bacteria, viruses, fungi and poor nutrition? If so will the = problems ever be solved as long as pesticide exposure is present? Alden Marshall Hudson, NH =20 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 07:50:57 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. Comments: To: bee-quick@BEE-QUICK.COM In-Reply-To: <001601c92db2$d9d40830$0201000a@j> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim wrote: > The systemics actually protect our environment > by both reducing the amount of pesticide required > to protect a crop to a tiny amount (as in seed > treatments) and by eliminating the need to > spray pesticides, which is how they kill bees, > get into the groundwater and soil, etc etc. > > When pesticides don't get airborne, bee kills > go to nearly zero. When growers don't apply > pesticides themselves at all, bee kills get > even closer to zero. And pesticide volume > goes way down. The older pesticides that > systemics can replace ARE a risk, one that > only fools would continue to take. I personally never had much trouble with the older pesticides. However, the impact on the environment could be reduced to an equation: amount applied (certainly less with systemics as you note) times toxicity (the LD 50 is much higher with neonicotinoids) times time in the environment (the half life of imidacloprid in my area is over a year, far more I believe than the organophosphates). Pesticide sprayers here have to be take ongoing courses and be certified. I would rather trust my fellow farmers than have a product which has to continue to kill for a long time to be effective. Stan **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 08:50:54 -0400 Reply-To: james.fischer@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I would rather trust my fellow farmers > than have a product which has to > continue to kill for a long time to > be effective. Fair enough, but despite all the paranoia about the newer pesticides, I can't recall a case of a pesticide kill where the pesticide wasn't airborne at some point. Can anyone recall one? (I'm ignoring the claims about sublethal effects here.) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 08:32:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: 2 queen hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Phil wrote: When these colonies are right though, they will produce honey at an alarming rate. Dealing with a colony of 100K bees can be a little daunting! Hey that wasn't so hard. I may try this again. Phil Boy that line hooked me....Phil, The two queen hives I am fooling with are actually single boxes with dividers and excluders built ino the dividers......not actually two boxes side by side that may come together in one stack of supers up top.....anyhow we will see how it turns out...I have had a fair amount of success in using this with a very limited population of bees. I actually use these hives to grow queens and am endeavoring to combine functions. Thanks for your comments. John Horton **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 22:06:44 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: nosema resistance? wasRe: [BEE-L] Bee Viruses in Spain In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Chris Slade wrote: > How would you know whether the Nosema you see is N.Apis or N. Cerana? Hi Chris, Dr Bromenshenk, as always, is absolutely right in his reply. Funny you should ask just now, since Dr Robert Cramer, who works with Jerry, has been trying to get a PCR DNA result from a sample that Ruary Rudd sent me from Ireland. And danged if I didn't just get an email from him of results! Anyway, Ruary's was N apis. So I have now been able to take photographs of N apis and N ceranae side by side. In fact, I just read your email as I was preparing a photo for publication! I'll run it in the next bee journal, and try to get it up on my website ASAP. Jerry's point however, is that unless you've looked at a lot of nosema spores, you'd have a heckuva time telling the two apart. This is especially true since N ceranae is so danged variable in size and shape. I'll post to the list when I've got photos up on my website. May be a day or two since I'm off to conferences. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:13:59 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: ALB wasRe: [BEE-L] FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 millio n. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -- James Fischer wrote: >This sort of treatment has been tried...so APHIS should have some sort of data on the potential for detectable levels in nectar and pollen. two things here: 1. they don't have any such data...it has never been collected. this is why have been working to collect it this time...and things look good. 2. they are planning on using a new treatment plan that has only been used in china (and tested in worcester). instead of taking down trees within 1/2 mile of infested trees (as they did in the other sites), they will treat them with twice the dose of imidacloprid that they have been using (when treating trees between 1/2 and 1 mile from infested trees). the previously used method of treatment was intended to poison the tree so that when the beetles emerge, and start to feed on the tree, they eat the imidacloprid and die (incidently, the alb has a fungus in it's gut that digests the wood for it). this method is to poison the tree while the larvae/pupua are in the tree to kill them in this unemerged state. again, this uses twice the dose of injected imidacloprid as they are using with the previously used methods. >The good news is that ONLY maples are being injected this is not accurate information...not according to aphis or the city of worcester. >Maples bloom really, really early. one (if not "the") question is, given that they are doing these treatments over a number of years (at least 3, imho, it will be 5 at least for some areas), how much accumulates in the tree over this time? i certainly don't "go for" maple honey, but i do often at least get some pollen from them. what are the imidacloprid levels in pollen from trees that are treated with this high dose for 3 years in a row? no one knows. treating "after the bloom" doesn't really mean anything unless we assume that there is no residual imidacloprid in the tree from one year to another. >Dean himself has nothing to worry about our bees are not in the currently affected area (but not so far away either). beekeepers can move hives in and out of an area if need be...but there are issues with other pollinators (and anything that eats tree parts dead or alive...and perhaps anything that eats things that eat tree parts). the scale of what they are doing and proposing is staggering (can you imagine running a program that has to coordinate inspecting/mapping/treating tens or hundreds of thousands of individual trees?)...inspections are bucket trucks and tree climbers. in any case, aphis has been wonderful to work with on this, and although there is no final plan for treatment, it does appear that we will be able to monitor and test bees in the affected area...and that beekeepers have ample warning and oppurtunity to get their hives out. deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:19:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Question: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do sub-lethal doses of pesticide amplify the effects of parasites, bacteria, viruses, fungi and poor nutrition? If so will the problems ever be solved as long as pesticide exposure is present? 1) There's no simple answer to question 1. Depending on the chemical, its possible to see amplification, no effect, or even a beneficial effect - after all, Fumadil is a fungicide. 2) As per question 2. There's no such thing as NO pesticide exposure. All bees, everywhere, are exposed to low levels of pesticides in the ambient environment, regardless of what may or may not be used at any given time in any specific location. After 35 years of looking at chemical in bees - no bee is ever pesticide free, and that doesn't take into account hundreds of environmental pollutants such as the breakdown products of diesel and gasoline. If an analytical lab were to come back and say - NO PESTICIDES found, I'd change labs. That would be a sure indication that the lab did crummy work. For example, we've never found a bee that DID NOT have traces of PCBs. Other researchers have found the same - beginning many years ago in Connecticut. And on the east coast - MD, PA area, all tested colonies had high levels of organic solvents such as used by industry and dry cleaners. So, short of eliminating all people from the earth and then waiting a couple of centuries for our chemical junk to then dissipate, you aren't going to find NO EXPOSURE, anywhere. Jerry **************BUY Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull on DVD today! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1209326865x1200539441/aol?redir=http://www.indianajones.com/site/index.html) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:23:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: nosema resistance? wasRe: [BEE-L] Bee Viruses in Spain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randy and all. I've a set of slides from Robb to present to the MT beekeepers tomorrow. Dr. Cramer will be at the CA Beekeepers to present his work on the Nosemas. One additional point, Robb sees two populations of Nosema in all bee samples. One is composed of smaller spores, one of larger. He thinks the difference may be viable versus inviable (dead) spores, but I don't think he can rule out morphological differences, since a study of a bumble bee Nosema found two types of spores. Anyway, Robb's the expert. However, based on spore size, he might have two different variations in size from the same Nosema, or live versus dead, or even a different species, since his general PCR for Nosema gets some hits that aren't N. apis, nor N. ceranae. So, really tough to sort these out by eye. Jerry **************BUY Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull on DVD today! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1209326865x1200539441/aol?redir=http://www.indianajones.com/site/index.html) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:11:55 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: nosema resistance? wasRe: [BEE-L] Bee Viruses in Spain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 15/10/2008 16:15:47 GMT Standard Time, randy@RANDYOLIVER.COM writes: Funny you should ask just now, since Dr Robert Cramer, who works with Jerry, has been trying to get a PCR DNA result from a sample that Ruary Rudd sent me from Ireland. So Jerry's observation that the only Nosema you'll see at this time of year is Ceranae may not apply universally (unless Ruary's was an old sample). Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:22:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. In-Reply-To: <001d01c92ec4$aa4e5da0$0201000a@j> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can't recall a case of > a pesticide kill where the pesticide wasn't > airborne at some point. Temik & imidacloprid used on Orange in Florida has caused many beeks to stop producing orange honey. Florida beeks limping out of orange groves with dying or dead hives. These beeks could care less what the people on internet lists think but have been placing thousands of hives in orange for years and now see the effects of systemic pesticides. Problems started with systemic pesticide use. Maples are one of the first spring pollens for the bees. I would worry about toxic pollens from the imidacloprid injected in Maples but I am sure others will have a different opinion. hopefully we can agree to disagree and both opinions will be posted. Sadly none of my replies to BEE-L on the subject of neonicotinoids gets past the moderators . Hopefully the above will not offend the defenders of the neonicotinoids. Each coin has two sides. The beekeeper side needs told to be fair. My post in defense of Maryam did not past moderation. I provided Maryam with contacts in France and other countries. I have spoke with those beeks myself. Moderation is fine but I will not whitewash a position simply to get a post done. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:43:30 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: ALB wasRe: [BEE-L] FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 millio n. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > treating "after the bloom" doesn't really > mean anything unless we assume that there > is no residual imidacloprid in the tree > from one year to another. Maples and other deciduous trees tend to drop blooms and pollen in late spring, and drop their leaves in fall, so all that lasts from year to year would be the wood and roots. Any "residual" pesticide may not be an issue, as it would certainly remain in the "dead" wood, but the bulk of it would be flushed from the vascular system, as the amount of water that moves through a tree in a month is very impressive. Prior experiments using dyes such as this one may be instructive in determining the exact amount that might exist as a second-season residual: http://tinyurl.com/3l7xqs or http://www.treelink.org/joa/1999/nov/06_evidence_for_the_downward_movement.p df The point made by the paper cited is this: "It appears that portions of trunk-injected materials are transported downward into the roots and are then transported upward in the sapstream in the following season or seasons." Anyone tried woodpeckers? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:03:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: [BEE-L] nosema resistance? wasRe: [BEE-L] Bee Viruses in Spain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message was originally submitted by gderoeck@EUPHONYNET.BE to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of pre -----Original Message----- From: de roeck ghislain [mailto:gderoeck@euphonynet.be] Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 12:52 PM Perhaps that this link can help a little: http://beebase.csl.gov.uk/pdfs/BeeCraftJan2008nosema.pdf Ghislain. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:08:21 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> I can't recall a case of a pesticide >> kill where the pesticide wasn't >> airborne at some point. > Temik & imidacloprid used on Orange in Florida But aren't they both sprayed on oranges? I call that "airborne". > Sadly none of my replies to BEE-L on the subject > of neonicotinoids gets past the moderators. The moderators never speak in their own defense, but messages are not "shredded" for their fringe viewpoints, but instead, are shredded for their less-than-polite wording or tone. > Hopefully the above will not offend the defenders > of the neonicotinoids. No one is "defending" neonics, it is rationality itself that is being defended. > I provided Maryam with contacts in France and > other countries. I have spoke with those beeks myself. Then perhaps you can answer my question. Why have none of the French researchers been able to see any improvement in hive losses since the bans of the pesticides blamed for causing the losses? Why do French beekeepers engage in misdirection by talking about honey crop size? I'll tell you - they made a big fuss, got a lot of attention, and now don't want to admit that they were wrong. If they had compelling data, they'd be waving it around, wouldn't they? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:11:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: george abbot Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. In-Reply-To: <47E1AB525F7A4A66A0BABFA499915879@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Maples are one of the first spring pollens for the bees. I would worry about > toxic pollens from the imidacloprid injected in Maples but I am sure others > will have a different opinion. My guess is that it is probably different in different areas, but Maples are the first nectar source for bees here in Maine and I have seen them working it. So it is more than pollen. But.... still need more facts to determine if it is a problem. Got to remember that it will be at least many months after treatment that the maples will start to bloom. Doubt if much will be around then, but it should be easy to test. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:15:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: george abbot Subject: Re: Question: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline So, short of eliminating all people from the earth and then waiting a > couple > of centuries for our chemical junk to then dissipate, you aren't going to > find NO EXPOSURE, anywhere. Even after that you will find pesticides as plants manufacture them. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:30:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Maryam Henein Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Then perhaps you can answer my question. Why have none of the French researchers been able to see any improvement in hive losses since the bans of the pesticides blamed for causing the losses? Why do French beekeepers engage=20 in misdirection by talking about honey crop size? I'll tell you - they made a big fuss, got a lot of=20 attention, and now don't want to admit that they were wrong. If they had compelling data, they'd be waving it around, wouldn't they? I speak French and beeks have told me directly that they are seeing = hives overflowing with bees and that they are increasingly doing better. = if you don't speak directly to them then it's all hearsay/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:12:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Darrell Subject: anecdotal observations of acetic acid fumigation wasRe: [BEE-L] nosema resistance? wasRe: [BEE-L] Bee Viruses in Spain In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10810132314k32a86a7eu1e07d66e5201efd6@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 14-Oct-08, at 2:14 AM, randy oliver wrote: >> > Acetic-fumigated combs appear to have some benefit in CCD cases, but > not as much as one would expect. Hi Randy and all My winter losses were very high last spring. Following advice on this list and elsewhere, I fumigated the deadout combs with acetic acid. After 12 days in stack with acetic acid 3 of these deadout boxes were used, without being aired out, as the second brood chamber on 3 newly purchased strong singles. Three days later the new brood chambers were full of bees in spite of the obvious acetic acid odour. Freshly hatched larvae were seen on the 6th day in all three boxes. These hives appeared not to have been affected by the acetic acid odour present. A month later, I received a call from a person with a swarm in her tree(8 km from me). I grabbed another box from the acetic stack and headed off to the swarm. The swarm was large on a low limb of the tree, 3 ft from the ground, and "a piece of cake". I placed the super on the ground and shook the branch dropping the swarm into it. The bees crawled in and out of the box for a while when I saw the queen, picked her up, and put her between the frames. Later, the bees still were not totally committed, I saw the queen again and put her in again. I don't have a queen cage and have never needed one before but the swarm was later on a higher branch of a different tree. This time I was a total failure, or, they didn't like the smell. The remaining deadout boxes are still stacked in the yard but no waxmoth damage. Comments? Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:03:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dan_Grandy?= Subject: 2 queen hives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was wondering does anyone have pictures of a side by side 2 Queen hive. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:24:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. Comments: cc: ybshoney , bellhill@planetkc.com In-Reply-To: <002501c92ef9$66356700$6d01a8c0@j> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jim & All, Bob Harrison said; >> Temik & imidacloprid used on Orange in Florida Jim Fischer replied: > But aren't they both sprayed on oranges? > I call that "airborne". > Wrong again Jim! Temik is planted with the tree or side dressed! http://www.bayercropscienceus.com/products-and-seeds/insecticides/temik.html If members of BEE-L would like to see my rejected posts please send me your email address and I will send. I am sending the above to a couple members so we can see if rejected as I can not see why the post should be rejected by moderators. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:08:25 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Honey bee deterrent. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've removed a colony of bees from the same house 3 years in a row now. I've perform complete and thorough removals but the scent of a nest just keeps drawing in new swarms each season. This uninsulated house has many cracks in the cedar shingles making for convenient entrances. I packed the cavities were I removed the colonies with lots of fiberglass insulation and sealed the entrances shut but the bees just move into adjacent areas! I feel sorry for the home owners and was wondering if there is a non-toxic substance that can be deposited after the colony is removed to make the location unattractive to new swarms. Would like to hear all your ideas/experiences! Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:15:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. In-Reply-To: <200810161145.m9GAghoT018954@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob wrote, "I can not see why the post should be rejected by moderators." Bob, If your post goads contributors then it doesn't get approved. The post your're complaining about slammed several contributors, one from Bayer who will probably never post again after being vilified a few months back here on BEE-L, and one who will have been all too eager to respond yet again to the claim that neonics and systemics are the latest scourge to beekeeping. They have data, you have loud and repeated anecdotal testimony contrary to the data. Bottom line, and it's been in the guidelines for over a decade, "Trolling (name calling, baiting, incivility) is not tolerated. Heated discussions are allowed, after all we're beekeepers and may not always agree. But as Rodney King put it, "Can't we all just get along?" This is a grey area up to the discretion of the moderators, but offending submissions will be rejected without notice." Aaron Morris - thinking nip it in the bud and spare the list. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 01:33:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Thompson Subject: 3rd crash Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This one is almost certainly not ccd, or indirectly at most The hive was poor and the Q did fail (aug??) The outyard doesn't get enough inspection, I shouldn't have missed this one It only made .5 or < Robbed out, no dead brood, not too many dead on BB 8 QC, ~3-4 wks old, 1 is gnawed at the right spot The replacement Q has likely been bird or dragonfly food (2 wks ago??) I'm wondering what is pasturization temp for virus (in general) dave **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:56:46 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: de roeck ghislain Subject: Re: Question: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry wrote: > ... Fumadil is a fungicide. Question: Is Fumadil a fungicide or an antibiotic? Ghislain. **************************************************** **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:26:09 +0100 Reply-To: ruaryrudd@iol.ie Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: nosema resistance? wasRe: [BEE-L] Bee Viruses in Spain In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well my sample was at least 6 years old deriving from a sample of bees brought into Gormanston microscopy workshop for examination. Ruary -----Original Message----- So Jerry's observation that the only Nosema you'll see at this time of year is Ceranae may not apply universally (unless Ruary's was an old sample). Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 07:17:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: george abbot Subject: HFCS again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Just read another study indicting fructose for the obesity epidemic. http://www.the-aps.org/press/journal/08/38.htm I am one of the most vocal on anthropomorphizing bee behavior, but I wonder what changes in the bees could happen with a steady winter diet of HFCS compared to sucrose. We do know bees with do what we do with sucrose and split it into glucose and fructose with some sucrose remaining (depending on time) just as we do. The major difference is we do it internally while they do it by adding enzymes and spitting it back into cells where the enzyme action takes place. In both cases you have a relative balance of sugars. We handle them in one way and I have no idea how bees handle them internally. We suffer when there is an imbalance and I have no idea if bees do. We do know that bees winter better on sugar than on HFCS. We do know that acid hydrologized HFCS is deadly to bees. Now we know that HFCS is very bad for humans also. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:52:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Bee Viruses in Spain In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All Sorry about the delay in reply, I am rather busy at the moment getting to grips with Geometric Morphometrics. The statistical side of the subject may be able to throw light on the difficult interactions between bee viruses. Jerry wrote (of PCR)... > So, three viruses = three primers. Since its pricey, most > investigators can't afford to survey for all viruses. We seem to be seeing different effects of a particular virus, with different combinations of viruses (and other problems) present. The numbers of viruses involved are considered too expensive to investigate all at once. I pose the question... Can we do this work in a synthetic fashion, purely with numbers, in order to produce large arrays of synthetic data sets that can be compared to what 'real' data we do have ? If and when the real data matches that produced by the numbers, the numbers that produced the synthetic data must relate to the real situation. It requires a lot of number crunching, but computers are good at that and I think it likely someone in our online community has the knowledge to implement it. It seams feasible to me, can anyone shoot it down ? Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://melliferabees.net Email: dave.cushman@lineone.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.21/2.01 Son of ORAC M/c, Build 5.o1/2.o1 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:20:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: anecdotal observations of acetic acid fumigation wasRe: [BEE-L] n... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 16/10/2008 12:45:34 GMT Standard Time, bobbee@INTERLOG.COM writes: This time I was a total failure, or, they didn't like the smell. I once had a swarm that refused to enter a hive or camped on the doorstep if dumped inside. Then I remembered that, months before, I had creosoted the floor. I replaced that and they all trooped in. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:25:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Honey bee deterrent. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 16/10/2008 12:53:10 GMT Standard Time, waldig@NETZERO.NET writes: I feel sorry for the home owners and was wondering if there is a non-toxic substance that can be deposited after the colony is removed to make the location unattractive to new swarms. Would like to hear all your ideas/experiences! I have used Bee Go on a house cavity that was being investigated by scouts and the bees went elsewhere. The householder (who paid my for my trouble) though the Bee Go smelt like Parmesan cheese. I don't seem able to get Bee Go in the UK any more. Does anybody know of a source? It is useful for herding swarms, even established colonies in cavities, but I wouldn't let it anywhere near honey! Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:54:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: george abbot Subject: Re: Bee Viruses in Spain In-Reply-To: <48F72B01.9080200@lineone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline It seams feasible to me, can anyone shoot it down ? When you look at the money and effort to model something like the weather, where you at least have an understanding of what happens when different things interact, I think it will be a major undertaking which will cost a lot of money and when you are all done, what will you do with it? We are still in the 'assumption" mode with viruses and their interaction. To get what really happens we need studies, at least of the three mentioned. But even after you get the information to make up a model, you are confronted with all the other variables that exist in real life, which is what happens to the weather models. You cannot control the variables. And with our current situation, there are many. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:10:32 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Sue Bee Honey "From Brazil & India" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a photo I took in Manhattan of the label one one pail on two pallets of sixties that had been delivered to a large bakery (Eli's), and were sitting on the sidewalk waiting for the bakery's forklift. All containers in the shipment were labeled with the same surprising admission: http://bee-quick.com/reprints/suebee60_nyc.jpg It was from SueBee, who's motto is "America's Honey" but look at the label: "Contains Honey From USA, Brazil & India" I know that SueBee started buying honey from Argentinean beekeepers a while ago, but when did they start buying from Brazil and India? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:45:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Maryam Henein: "I speak French and beeks have told me directly that they are seeing hives overflowing with bees and that they are increasingly doing better. if you don't speak directly to them then it's all hearsay/" Yes, I suppose so, but then what you have called “empirical proof” is hearsay as well from where I’m sitting. You have talked to some beekeepers, and Bob has his sources, but where’s the stuff that could be published in a peer review journal, or even ABJ? That’s the kind of stuff that makes the case for me. It just seems that you are so eager for what you are saying to be true that you don’t feel you have to get the hard data to really prove it, or look at other possible explanations for why this might be happening. If there weren’t, as Jim has pointed out over and over again, compelling reasons to use these systemic pesticides, we could just call up the precautionary principle and leave it at that, but there are, at least in the minds of the farmers who use them. And it’s not just greed, although there is an element of that in almost everything we do in the name of making a living isn’t there? Respectfully, Steve Noble **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:46:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: DAVID ADAMS Subject: Sue Bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Jim , Thanks for the picture,which says a thousand words. So much for the American owned co-op and supporting American only beekeepers . At least they don't have an in ground HFCS tank too ,like some packers I know of,but of course that's for bee feed (wink). I guess that's the american way of by low sale high and the heck with doing the right thing. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:51:36 -0400 Reply-To: lloyd@rossrounds.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Sue Bee Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline With regard to Sue Bee Honey, Jim asked "I know that SueBee started buying honey from Argentinean beekeepers a while ago, but when did they start buying from Brazil and India?" Jim...as soon as they could no longer rely on honey from China. Sue Bee cannot fill all their orders with US/Canada produced honey and feels that they must maintain market share by buying honey from wherever... Lloyd **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:08:42 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Bee Viruses in Spain In-Reply-To: <8c0381120810160554r35c90730v2ca3b91e8bd9a5aa@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bill > But even after you get the information to make up a model, you are > confronted with all the other variables that exist in real life, I was only expecting something in the region of 200 variables, which is many orders of magnitude smaller than weather modelling, well within the scope of a hi-spec PC (OK it is going to be very busy calculating). It is certainly pointless modelling for three viruses. > You cannot control the variables. You set the variables deliberately (integer values to start with) you end up with enormous amounts of results, but they in turn are compared by computer to what 'real' data exists, only where a match happens does a human ever get involved. -- Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://melliferabees.net Email: dave.cushman@lineone.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.21/2.01 Son of ORAC M/c, Build 5.o1/2.o1 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:19:03 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: 2 queen hives In-Reply-To: <20081014.090728.7491.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Phil > The workers do not mix in the supers but work exclusively above their queen. This is interesting, it is opposite to what happens if you use five frame nucs with a single super (something that I have done a lot of) as your colonies are much more populous than mine were, I wonder at what point the behaviour changes over from one set of circumstances to the other. I have done side by side with full colonies, but nowhere near as many as yourself (half a dozen) it is a long time ago, but I never noticed what you are describing. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://melliferabees.net Email: dave.cushman@lineone.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.21/2.01 Son of ORAC M/c, Build 5.o1/2.o1 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:31:09 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Viruses, Synthetic Data Sets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave said: Not necessarily. True if you use multiple PCR primers. When they become available, tools like microarrays will be able to look at all known viruses at once for about $100 or less. But, we don't have to wait. There are tools that can do all viruses, bacteria, fungi, etc. at once. Costs about $250 per sample, so its not cheap, but its not so expensive if you consider the information produced per sample. And, another tool, IVDS, gives us a way at looking at all viruses at once for reasonable costs, relatively inexpensive. I assume by synthetic data, you mean some form of modeling. Well and fine, but I expect that by Christmas, we will release a database that can be mined, using actual data on all known viruses and other pathogens in bee samples from across the U.S. We'll show some of this today at MT beekeepers, more at the Research Luncheon of CA beekeepers, and again at the AHPA. Haven't an invite yet from ABF :-). Jerry **************BUY Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull on DVD today! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1209326865x1200539441/aol?redir=http://www.indianajones.com/site/index.html) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:19:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Alf Bashore Subject: Re: Honey bee deterrent. In-Reply-To: <20081015.140825.5114.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I've read to paint the space with kerosene or similar. But that idea I don't like. The insulation you are installing of course prevents the bees from returning to the same cavity. But the best recourse is for the homeowner to seal all potential openings. And to reshingle or apply new wood or vinyl siding to the house. Expensive, yes, but actually will preserve the structural integrity of the house. Until the homeowners do this, they will have an annual swarm living with them. Perhaps you may wish to place bait hives near the house. Make those bait hives more attractive for the scout bees than the house. There seems to be a nice prolific feral colony nearby. I am dealing with a similar situation in a rural PA century old farm house. The cedar siding is the original and needs replaced. There were two colonies in that home, both removed this spring/summer. I covered those spaces with plywood and advised the owner who has limited income to patch all holes to prevent a swarm from entering next season. He didn't. In a surprise action by a wild colony a late July swarm moved into a wall again. Will retrieve next spring if it is still alive by then. That house is so open that it could contain many colonies, if there were swarms sufficient. Did obtain a swarm from another century old brick farmhouse. Those homeowners caulked all the brick opening shut after I retrieved that wild colony. Had to access thru a bedroom floor. Used bee vac. Saved the queen. There is a feral colony in an old log barn about a mile or less away. I was told that that farmer wants those bees to stay. I guess they regularly swarm. Wanted to place swarm traps this past late spring/early summer. Illness prevented that. There is next year for swarm trapping. Of the three colonies from the two farmhouses, two are doing well. One went to another assisting beekeeper who insisted he had the queen. He didn't. I had to go back to the wood farmhouse and get the colony remnants plus the queen. That colony ended getting robbed out in my home beeyard and is gone. Perhaps, I inadvertently injured the queen during the retrieval and installation. I was ill this summer and wasn't able to attend to the bees needs as I wished. Perhaps it would have survived otherwise. Hope this helps. Alf **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:02:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: george abbot Subject: Re: Bee Viruses in Spain In-Reply-To: <48F758FA.9070700@lineone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > turn are compared by computer to what 'real' data exists, only where a > match happens does a human ever get involved. Which opens up another problem. Got to define the results to match with real world observations, and their is the rub. Even the same virus can exhibit different symptoms in different settings and climates. Classic was KBV and what was observed in the Washington, DC area compared to Maine. Many similar symptoms and some different. All in all, it is an interesting study, but I doubt if it would ever get off the ground...unless you are interested, Dave :) Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:33:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Ames Subject: New Zealand Shows Some Wisdom Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/5083399/erma-not-allowing-new-poison-for- bee-mites/ An environmental regulator which controls hazardous substances has knocked back a chemical company's bid to import an organophosphate poison to kill varroa mites in beehives. Beekeepers warned the Environmental Risk Management Authority (Erma) that the Checkmite product Bayer New Zealand Ltd wants to import could leave residues which would hurt the high- value export industry built around medicinal honeys such as biologically active manuka, thyme and honeydew products. Erma said today it has not banned Checkmite, but had taken a precautionary approach because Bayer failed to show enough verified benefits, compared with the risks. A future re-assessment may be warranted if circumstances changed, said Erma hazardous substances general manager Andrea Eng. "Checkmite contains coumaphos, an organophosphate, reported to produce persistent residues in honey, beeswax, and the hive environment," Ms Eng said. "Concerns about the immediate risks posed by Checkmite outweighed the comparatively small potential benefit of being able to use it should varroa mite develop resistance to one or more of the alternatives currently available." There were several other miticides beekeepers could use, and Erma called for the beekeeping industry to formally monitor the efficacy of the products already available, improve the understanding of resistance management and do further research into management of varroa mite. The application to import Checkmite was originally received in 2006 but was held over until 2008 to allow the applicant to conduct trials in containment. Seven submissions were received, with one in favour. The six against included included the two national bodies that represent beekeepers, the National Beekeepers Association and the Federated Farmers bee industry group, New Zealand's largest exporter of manuka honey products and three other honey producers/exporters. Key concerns raised were longterm effects on beekeepers' costs as a result of wax/ honey contamination with coumaphos residues; loss of export sales due to the negative impact of coumaphos residues on the reputation of the NZ industry, and potential loss of the medical market for special honeys, such as manuka sold as a wound healer and for digestive health. Federated Farmers Bee chairman John Hartnell said the decision was a "sensible approach". "It is extremely important that beekeepers use alternating treatments from different chemical families," he said. "If they don't, the industry runs the risk of treatment resistance in the future." **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:07:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: george abbot Subject: Re: New Zealand Shows Some Wisdom In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > medicinal honeys such as biologically active manuka, thyme and > honeydew products. Is this correct, that the others are marketed as biologically active medicinal honeys? Manuka obviously is but the others? Or is it just a reporter's run on sentence? Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:31:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: 2 queen hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 16/10/2008 16:39:21 GMT Standard Time, dave.cushman@LINEONE.NET writes: The workers do not mix in the supers but work exclusively above their queen. Are the super combs parallel or at right angles to the brood combs? I suspect the former in N. America where oblong boxes are usual. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:42:20 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. Comments: To: Bob Harrison In-Reply-To: <295EFE6FF5C6455296EF5D0E3A1B1F06@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hello Stan Sandler & All, > Stan you and your troubles with the maker of imidacloprid were in my > rejected post. You responded to Jim in this discussion. Could you give the > list an update on your battle to get to see the results of the testing. > > Did the company rep provide the results like you asked of him on BEE-L. > Did > he respond at all? I have continued to correspond with David Fischer of Bayer Crop Science off the list. On Aug. 19 he said he had been in touch with Dr. Kemp about which samples should be analyzed, and what budget restraints there were. He said Dr. Kemp indicated it might be a month or two. He also said that the soil persistence study was in the domain of his "E-Fate colleagues" and they were on vacation. On Oct. 10 I asked for an update, and he immediately replied, and said that Dr. Kemp has not responded yet. (Dr. Kemp has NOT contacted me, which I find odd, because we already sat down several years ago and prioritized which samples needed testing). He said he appreciated my patience. He did not mention the soil persistence studies. I will ask again. David Fischer has never been anything but courteous with me, and I have always tried to put my objections to imidacloprid on a factual basis. I am quite surprised at Aaron's post indicating that he thought David would not post to this list anymore. I think that if he has something to add he will, and I think if we ask him a direct question he will respond. To go back to facts, thankyou Bob for noting that Temik and imidacloprid are not aerially applied to oranges. I personally did not have a good example for Jim's question. In my own hives that collapsed the chemical was soil injected, and therefore not aerially applied, but I had the impression that Jim was looking for an outright kill the way I have seen other insecticides kill my hives (he specified not due to sub-lethal effects). I never to my knowledge saw that. But I also never kept hives near potato fields where there was foliar spraying. My hives did dwindle and die due to sub lethal effects. Bayer does advertise that this is the method that imidacloprid kills termites. From the label of Premise 75: "Premise causes a range of effects in termites, they stop feeding and are unable to maintain their colony. A second effect, exclusive to Premise, is called PREMISE PLUS NATURE (TM). This phenomenon makes termites susceptible to infection by naturally occurring organisms. Either way the termites die and your home is protected". I do want to point out that another of Jim's arguments for the superiority of systemics over spot treatments is that the systemic is preapplied to the seed (reducing operator error). However Jim, please be aware that in the case of potatoes here (and most likely in Long Island) farmers apply the material to the seed set themselves. No one sells "treated seed potatoes" to my knowledge. It is applied in the set cutter on the planter. However, that is a great improvement over foliar spray and soil injection (which was the case when I saw the effects in my hives that I have written about). Also, I would like offer my opinion that the systemic applied to maple trees will not be quickly dissipated. My bees never get honey from maples, but the pollen is indispensable. It first good pollen source here. I offer this reference: Sclar D.C. and Cranshaw W.S ; Journal of Environmental Horticulture;14 (1): "Injections of imidacloprid in the soil around the feet of elms are particularly effective against principal pests (beetles and elm aphids). The persistence is particularly long, such that the pests are under control even in the following season wherever treatment has taken place". Regards Stan **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:00:28 +1000 Reply-To: Trevor Weatherhead Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: 2 queen hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Phil wrote >> The workers do not mix in the supers but work exclusively above their >> queen. Dave wrote > I have done side by side with full colonies, but nowhere near as many as > yourself (half a dozen) it is a long time ago, but I never noticed what > you are describing. Here in Australia about 15 -20 years ago there were many people trying two queen hives. They had a 10 or 12 frame brood box which was split in half in the bottom. A queen in each side then an excluder. What Phil wrote was commonly found. If you looked at a hive and there were only bees on one side of the honey super, then you knew that there was only one queen in the bottom. Not sure if it was because the bees did not mix or just that they were working only above the brood as is sometimes the case. If the condition were good then the bees were happy with two queens. Once conditions went off then they tended to kill one of the queens. Some used to have another small super, such as an ideal, which was divided in the same way as the bottom box above the excluder so as to try and separate the bees a little more. With his configuration, when the conditions started to go off, the super/s above the ideal were removed and the lid, which was flat or also had the divide in, was put on to divide the colony back into two separate units within the one box. The honey super/s were added when conditions were again favourable. They were a lot of work and there are not many who persisted in running these two queen hives. When conditions were right they certainly had large bee numbers and did produce a lot of honey but from a personal perspective I was never sure that it was better than two individual hives. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:21:47 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Bee Viruses in Spain In-Reply-To: <8c0381120810161102m139bb2f5i758ec715acefc1a5@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bill > All in all, it is an interesting study, but I doubt if it would ever get off > the ground...unless you are interested, Dave :) Perhaps I am allowing my lateral thinking too much freedom, but it is by making such audacious comments that we can sometimes make a bit of progress. At the moment I am too heavily committed to learning about Geometric Morphometric methods, (in order that we might refine the morphometric database for honey bees to align with the measuring capability that we now have). If I can stir up any enthusiasm for someone else to look at a rather daunting task, it may help the bees. I asked to be shot down, but the comments so far, do not render may cause as a complete waste of time, but maybe just too a large portion to swallow all at once. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://melliferabees.net Email: dave.cushman@lineone.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.21/2.01 Son of ORAC M/c, Build 5.o1/2.o1 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:28:54 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: 2 queen hives In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chris > The workers do not mix in the supers but work exclusively above their queen. Your brevity attributes the statement to me, but my experience is the opposite view. > Are the super combs parallel or at right angles to the brood combs? In my situation they were parallel, in almost all cases. Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://melliferabees.net Email: dave.cushman@lineone.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.21/2.01 Son of ORAC M/c, Build 5.o1/2.o1 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:50:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_de_Bruyn_Kops?= Subject: Re: Bee Viruses in Spain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Dave Cushman wrote: >I was only expecting something in the region of 200 variables, ... Exact matches and certainty are hard to come by in the real world, and your proposed project involves some data collection from experiments. On top of that, there may be some variables not considered by the computer simulations. As a result, when you get a match or near match, what you'll end up with is a probability that some hypothesis is true, not a guarantee. Computing or estimating the probabilities could be tricky. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:20:40 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Sue Bee Honey In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable May I ask who check for treatment contamination? or any contamination for t= hat matter? Like the NHB...... =A0 D =0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 01:53:52 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: 2 queen hives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>The workers do not mix in the supers but work exclusively above their queen. I think it's hard to avoid mixing. How did you come to this conclusion? You'd need to have a dark line in one colony, a light colored one in the other, and then check the bees in the supers. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:44:21 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Honey bee deterrent. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>... used Bee Go on a house cavity ... and the bees went elsewhere. I bought a bottle of Bee Go or Bee Gone several years ago in the hope of herding an established colony out of a tree. [The results were so-so (not too effective in that application).] The smell is rather awful - I keep the bottle sealed in double plastic bags to cut down on the smell in the garage. No homeowner would be pleased if I sprayed it in their house. A lot of older American homes are not very tight and the smell would go through the structure... I might even get sued for deliberate damage! Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 23:28:43 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Maple treatments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim Fischer wrote... "The good news is that ONLY maples are being injected with imidacloprid in Worcester for now, at least according to the Telegram:..." According to the following web site publicity for "Do it yourself" - one does wonder who is applying what to where. http://www.treehelp.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=LG-6700 Regards, Peter **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:20:41 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stan said: > I am quite surprised at Aaron's post indicating that > he thought David would not post to this list anymore. I'm not - several people were less than courteous to David Fischer (for the record, David Fischer is no relation to me. "Fischer" is a very common name). Anyone with a boss takes a big risk posting here, which is why so few scientists participate. Jerry B and I are not braver than everyone else in the business, we are merely lucky enough to have become "the boss". > I had the impression that Jim was looking for an > outright kill the way I have seen other insecticides > kill my hives (he specified not due to sub-lethal effects). Yes. Everyone understood that. I'm certain Bob understood it too, even though he apparently pretended to ignore it to create a "debating point". > please be aware that in the case of potatoes here > (and most likely in Long Island) farmers apply the > material to the seed set themselves. Yes, that's well understood. Over time, I expect that most crops will get the same treatment as corn does, where the seed comes pre-treated by default. > However, that is a great improvement over foliar > spray and soil injection Exactly. And while we are on the subject, I know that beekeepers from PEI Canada came up with a complicated accusation, telling a tale of hives dying from mere proximity to soil-drenched fields where potatoes were grown. On Long Island, no such negative effects were noticed, even though more potatoes are grown on LI than on PEI. So much of this drenching was done on LI that trace levels of the pesticide started showing up in residential water wells, but even then not a single hive on Long Island was even suspected of being harmed. And in case anyone thinks that Long Island beekeepers are sloppy, lazy, inattentive beekeepers who would not notice sublethal effects, I submit as "Exhibit A" a snapshot of the two hives of a mere novice beekeeper on Long Island. Note the extensive evidence of a level of "picky" that verges on pathological, even in the apiary of a beginner: http://bee-quick.com/reprints/LIhives.jpg a) Pavers under hive stand - a foundation! b) Yes, that is a bee-themed thermometer on the stand c) Excellent paint jobs, honey supers in red d) Note the numbers - no stencils, actual metal numbers e) Copper roofs - classy and pricey f) Wood-chip mulch around the hives Red Sox 8, Tampa 7 ! The Triumph of Hope Over Experience. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 09:47:05 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Bee Viruses in Spain In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter > when you get a match or near match, what you'll > end up with is a probability that some hypothesis is true, not a guarantee. Obtaining the matches would only be a starting point for further checking, I am not expecting perfection and would always prefer 'real data', but where data is not existing or is expensive to gather there may be room for a synthetic approach. > Computing or estimating the probabilities could be tricky. The modelling would have to be based on what we already know. What I am suggesting does not synthesize 'answers' only large quantities of arbitrary sets of data, once a match is found, a human must interpret the data to establish the answers. -- Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://melliferabees.net Email: dave.cushman@lineone.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.21/2.01 Son of ORAC M/c, Build 5.o1/2.o1 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 05:23:25 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Honey bee deterrent. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 17/10/2008 03:30:31 GMT Standard Time, waldig@NETZERO.NET writes: No homeowner would be pleased if I sprayed it in their house. I agree. The technique I used (when I had some) was to put a few drops on a piece of sponge or cotton wool and with the aid of a bamboo cane, drain rod or similar insert the material behind the bees in their cavity and gradually herd them to where I could collect them. I kept my Bee Go in its plastic container, in a coffee jar, in a sealed plastic bag, in the shed at the end of the garden. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 07:33:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Yoon_Sik_Kim?= Subject: Saving Cutouts from Robbers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, Folks. I too have lost a good number of cutout colonies through robbing, especially those I tried to save after the nectar flow in my area (that is after July). For convenience of having to feed the cutouts, I have been bringing them home. At my home yard, however, I keep about twenty-five colonies (all Italian varieties), and ever vigilant, they will not let alone slightest signs of weakness in the cutouts, the new kid in town, and the strength of the queen in the cutout seems irrelevant, for I have seen how populace and stalwart the original colonies had been inside the man-made structures. However, once removed through an open-heart surgery, they become disoriented and super-vulnerable, and the marauders could “smell” something awry with this new arrival. To avoid this pitfall, I have changed my strategy as follow: 1. Set the cutout colonies in a different yard, at least a mile or so away from your established yards. Yes, the distance matters even though it may not be a mile. 2. This separate yard should have fewer than five small colonies, ideally, and most of them could be nucs or small colonies not so quickly tempted to rob. 3. Reduce the entrance of all the colonies in that yard, especially the newly arrived cutout colonies, to the smallest crack in the wooden reducer. 4. Do not start feeding them immediately (fight the urge); let the cutout re-establish and re-orient themselves for a few days at least, as they need to recuperate after the open-heart surgery, a truly traumatic event. 5. Never use screened bottoms to set up new cutouts; instead, use only wooden bottom boards—-to seal the bees and the smell of honey off completely; when you try to save the brood and sometimes even honey combs on SBB, robbers will smell the honey via the screen, initiating the thievery, especially during nectar dearth. They will even suck right through the screen, if the bottom of the honey combs, sitting vertically, touches the screen, for no good deed from the beekeeper should go unpunished. Yoon **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:54:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Robert Brenchley Subject: Re: Saving Cutouts from Robbers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 17/10/2008 13:32:02 GMT Standard Time, ybshoney@ITLNET.NET writes: <<3. Reduce the entrance of all the colonies in that yard, especially the newly arrived cutout colonies, to the smallest crack in the wooden reducer.>> Use cardboard rather than wood. As the colony gains strength they chew it back to create the entrance size they need, and it saves you the bother of going round incrasing the space. Regards, Robert Brenchley Birmingham UK **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:17:22 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Honey bee deterrent. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>...insert the material behind the bees in their cavity and gradually herd them to where I could collect them. Were you successful at any time in herding the queen with the bees out of an established nest with brood with this technique? Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:32:31 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Saving Cutouts from Robbers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>4. Do not start feeding them immediately (fight the urge); let the cutout re-establish and re-orient themselves for a few days at least... Or do what I do. Lay out several shallow - no deeper than 2 bees - trays on top of the inner cover. Put an empty super on top of the inner cover for protection. Pour feed into the trays after sunset. (Use only enough feed for the bees to take down overnight!) Place a telescoping cover over the super. Repeat for several nights as needed. By morning the feed will be stored and the 'flow' excitement will have expired.. >>They will even suck right through the screen, if the bottom of the honey combs, sitting vertically, touches the screen... I always place the feral honey combs on the inner cover with a super. The bees draw out new frames. The emptied feral combs get melted down. I do use screened bottoms. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 16:51:06 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: SEVIN Carbamate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi everyone, specially Mr Bayer I was noticed today that tomorrow a neigbouring Apple field will spray SEVIN XLR plus from Bayer. This is a carbamate insecticide quite mortal to bees, as I can proved past season. Any one know for how long should I keep my bees closed in the hive? Would it be enough for one day after the spray? -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:39:29 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob said: > Temik is planted with the tree or side dressed! Yes, I agree that it would be hard to get granules of Temik with anything less than a Nerf Gun. :) But what about the imidacloprid formulations I was asking about, Bob? Aren't there several choices of imidacloprid sprays for oranges? And Temik is an Aldicarb, not an imidacloprid. Now I've never heard you or your consistently anonymous sources say anything bad about Aldicarb, but we are all ears. The good news is that Florida tightly monitors the use of Temik, so one could at least cross-check beekeeper complaints with the list of which orchards use the Aldicarbs at all. The problem might be that everyone uses the same stuff at almost the same time. I know that apple growers tend to follow the suggestions of the extension guys. Funny how the growers are so willing to take hints and suggestions from their ag extension reps, while beekeepers keep mixing up their own homebrew miticides in empty drums and totes when no one is looking, isn't it? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:50:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Erin Martin Subject: Re: SEVIN Carbamate In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10810170751j25659aaej8af844c54f434e3c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Any one know for how long should I keep my bees closed in > the hive? Would it > be enough for one day after the spray? >From info I found at http://www.beesource.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-200798.html, it looks like you'd be better off with at least 3, but others here may know differently. Good luck! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:52:19 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: SEVIN Carbamate In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10810170751j25659aaej8af844c54f434e3c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Juanse: > I was noticed today that tomorrow a neigbouring Apple field will spray > SEVIN > XLR plus from Bayer. ..... Any one know for how long should I keep my bees > closed in the hive? Would it > be enough for one day after the spray? I have had two times when blueberry growers had to spray that product just at the beginning of flowering because of infestation of geometer worm. Both times they asked me to move the hives in right afterwards and I did. I did not have problems with beekill, but I did notice both times that the bees avoided the fields that were sprayed and only worked the unsprayed fields. One time I had the bees right on the lane between a sprayed and unsprayed field and I went and got the grower and showed him that the bees were only working one side of the lane (I was trying to convince him not to use the product again close to flowering). The bumblebees did not seem as sensitive to the smell, and they were working both sides. Hope that experience helps. Apple blossom is a lot more attractive to bees than blueberry blossom however. Good Luck Stan **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:58:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_L_Borst?= Subject: Re: SEVIN Carbamate Comments: To: Stan Sandler Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Juanse, I live in an apple growing region in NY State and I would say the general rule is to stay well away from apples altogether, unless you are getting paid to pollinate them. If the grower is dumb enough to spray while your bees are on the bloom, charge double. Peter **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:48:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Honey bee deterrent. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 17/10/2008 15:28:50 GMT Standard Time, waldig@NETZERO.COM writes: Were you successful at any time in herding the queen with the bees out of an established nest with brood with this technique? Yes, twice. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 14:18:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. In-Reply-To: <000b01c9306e$8ce56730$0201000a@j> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim said: > Now I've never heard you or your consistently > anonymous sources say anything bad about Aldicarb, > but we are all ears. I have talked on BEE-L about the BAYER product Temik many many times.(BEE-L archives use my name and temik in search). I point to the reason the Bayer product temik is *banned* in the U.K. by saying google Temik/aldicarb and decide for yourself ( April 2008 ABJ pg.338). Temik was from my knowledge one of the first systemic pesticides. The first manufacturer was union carbide and then BAYER purchased to registration. While in Florida last January I toured orange growers and asked about the pest management practices. I was shown bags of temik. I was told that aldicarb was being found in nectar, pollen, oranges ,orange juice and in ground water. The growers said how safe the maker/seller said the product was at the start. Wrong! The growers said that they purchased the temik by the truck load ( 50 pound bags )and sent migrant workers out to toss the temik around the base of trees. Temik was basically unregulated as for when to use or distance from ground water wells at first. The water table in Florida is around 14-15 feet which is the reason for slab houses. Bee hives started crashing in orange groves treated with temik but did not stop or limit temik use despite beekeeper complaints. When contamination started being found in ground water, orange juice and oranges the use of temik became regulated. 300 feet from a water well and limited use on orange. The product should have been banned as the U.K. did in my opinion. I was also told temik is easily available in Florida even by the truck load and off label use is done often. Maryam speaks French but I speak Floridian as I was raised in Florida and return often. Talking to the orange growers/ Florida beekeepers trumps most information. example of seeing the problem first hand: When small hive beetle was first found in Deland, Florida in 1998 I arrived on the scene the same time as the USDA-ARS and the Florida apiary inspection service. Other beeks can learn about a problem months later at a bee meeting or in a bee magazine. I like to see the problem first hand. For those reading which might have been at the site and did not notice me at the site back then I remember David Westervelt and others trying a catch a swarm of bees high in a live Oak tree. Myself and the beek with the SHB infestation wondered what David W. was trying to do as the SHb was in the hives not in the trees. Well David was trying to find out if SHB traveled with bees in swarms. They do David learned. The trapped swarm had many SHB flying with the bees to the new location. I left Florida thinking if I ever have a serious bee problem which I can not figure out David Westervelt might be the person to call. Since 1998 I have sought his advice on several occasions. >The good news is that Florida > tightly monitors the use of Temik, so one could > at least cross-check beekeeper complaints with > the list of which orchards use the Aldicarbs at all. If you believe the above Jim then I have some oceanfront property to sell you in Missouri. Very little is tightly monitored in Florida including temik. In the U.S. our legislators have passed laws to cover about every problem but are lax in enforcement of most! If new rules are passed to rein in big ag then lobbyists lobby to reduce the number of inspectors or let the industry regulate itself. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 23:15:24 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: de roeck ghislain Subject: Aldicarb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob wrote: >I point to the reason the Bayer product temik is *banned* in the U.K. by saying google Temik/aldicarb and decide for yourself ( April 2008 ABJ pg.338). Do not know if it is important for your discussion but Aldicarb/temik is banned in all the countries of the European Community. See: http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-2670432/EU-bans-Bayer-s-aldicarb.htm l Kind regards, Ghislain. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:15:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "R.M." Subject: Re: Honey bee deterrent. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What about Fischers Bee Quick that Brushy Mountain sells?=A0 It's supposed = to smell nice.=0ARoni=0A=0A________________________________________________= __=0ADo You Yahoo!?=0ATired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protect= ion around =0Ahttp://mail.yahoo.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:49:31 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim wrote: > Exactly. And while we are on the subject, I know that > beekeepers from PEI Canada came up with a complicated > accusation, telling a tale of hives dying from mere > proximity to soil-drenched fields where potatoes were > grown. Jim, if the beekeepers who were asking for a moratorium on imidacloprid were not convinced that it was a problem, then what would be our motivation for "telling a tale"? We were not asking for any financial compensation, and had we been successful, the farmers would have gone back to foliar sprays. So we definitely believed that these were preferable. "Telling a tale" implies that you think we had some ulterior motivation. > On Long Island, no such negative effects were > noticed, even though more potatoes are grown on LI > than on PEI. My search found a reference to 30,000 acres of potatoes on Long Island being a high in 1970, with acreage declining since because of urban encroachment. The New York times does say that this year in the main growing area of Suffolk county there is a record acreage of 20,000 acres of potatoes. By contrast we have over 100,000 acres of potatoes on PEI, and during the time we were experiencing problems the acreage was around 130,000. More useful than anecdotal accounts of good hives on Long Island would be your comment on the paper about the multiyear control of pests on elms using imidacloprid, since this bears directly on the question of the safety of using it on maples. The authors of that paper had no agenda to discredit imidacloprid, in fact as foresters they were delighted to find its long persistence. Regards Stan **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:56:53 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Fwd: [BEE-L] SEVIN Carbamate In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10810171153h3d45f07fwa6062b1f7e1cd86b@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thanks Peter, but the problem is that I am pollinating blueberries in a nearby field. The beekeeper in the apple field was noticed a few days ago and he already took his bees away. The blue berry owner doesn't allow me to take the hives out because the berries still have 20% of flowers. I am in a sort of catch 22 type of problem. I am in a break rigth now. I been closing entrances, putting frame feeder and mesh on top. Bees will be enclosed for a couple of days. I will report soon. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:17:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Aldicarb In-Reply-To: <000001c9309d$78806950$69813bf0$@be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Ghislain & All, > Do not know if it is important for your discussion but Aldicarb/temik is > banned in all the countries of the European Community. Eventually the U.S. may wake up and protest what many of these chemicals are doing to us and our environment. I worry for beekeeping but the more I research some of these chemicals I worry like Yoon for the environment and the world we will be leaving the next generation.. Do we really need untested and stronger pesticides coming on the market monthly? I can not tell you how many farmers and growers i have spoke with which do not have a clue what the neonicotinoids are. Many think that the little label on the seed bag which says "pesticide treated seed" means the seed has been treated to protect the seed while in the bags. Temik banned in Europe in 2003. Still in use in all parts of the U.S.. Could aldicarb be in your morning glass of orange juice? I do not know but I was told in January the industry is not testing for aldicarb in OJ on a regular basis. You never find a problem unless you look for the problem. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 01:42:51 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: SEVIN Carbamate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>...in NY State and I would say the general rule is to stay well away from apples altogether... I heard once that it's impossible to raise organic apples east of the Rockies. Are there ANY organic apple growers on this side of the Rockies? I have a young apple tree with 5 varieties grafted on it and would like to learn organic backyard methods for apple trees. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 01:54:06 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Honey bee deterrent. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>What about Fischers Bee Quick that Brushy Mountain sells? It's supposed to smell nice. Never used it. Nice smell is a plus but does it last for at least one season. This is one application where the chemical needs to be persistant! Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 00:25:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: [BEE-L] Aldicarb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Dee Lusby [mailto:deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com] Sent: Sat 2008.10.18 00:21 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Aldicarb Ought to be banned in USA and this has been talked about for years with = 1/10 part per billion inducing immune system breakdown, like AIDS IMPOV. = Even in archives here as I certainly mention it from time to time. =20 D- **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 03:24:26 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Fwd: [BEE-L] SEVIN Carbamate In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10810171756g7276fecay1e6f0144fa5a3ca7@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Juanse: > The blue berry owner doesn't allow me to > take the hives out because the berries still have 20% of flowers. I find here that it is very difficult anyway to get the bees to work the late bloom (with lowbush blueberries; I assume you are in highbush ones there which have been planted; the lowbush ones are growing naturally and then cultivated using herbicides :) I can sometimes get the grower to release the bees earlier by running my hands up the vine and showing that even though the flowers are present they fall off when brushed which means they are already pollinated. But I know what it is like. They are paying for the bees and as long as they see flowers they think the bees should be there, even if almost all of them are in the apples. Stan **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 23:52:28 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Cherubini Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stan Sandler wrote: > Jim, if the beekeepers who were asking for a moratorium > on imidacloprid were not convinced that it was a problem, > then what would be our motivation for "telling a tale"? Prejudice. People with this prejudice against synthetic pesticides IMAGINE that exposures to miniscule, trace amounts have far reaching adverse (e.g. sublethal) human and bee health affects that are either undiscovered or have been covered up by the chemical companies. Paul Cherubini El Dorado, Calif. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 05:03:41 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. In-Reply-To: <48F987AC.2329@saber.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Paul: > Prejudice. People with this prejudice against synthetic pesticides > IMAGINE that exposures to miniscule, trace amounts have > far reaching adverse (e.g. sublethal) human and bee health > affects that are either undiscovered or have been covered > up by the chemical companies. I am not an organic farmer. I have used synthetic pesticides. When our own potatoes run out I eat local potatoes with a maximum allowable residue of 300,000 ppb imidacloprid without qualms. The sublethal effects on bees are of tiny amounts are not undiscovered, they are well documented, even by Bayer : Pflanzenschutz-Nachrichten Bayer 52/99,3 Page 290 shows a photo of the conditioned proboscis extension test investigating "effect of imidacloprid on the associative learning behaviour of honeybees". The graph on page 291 (figure 6) shows clear effects even at the lowest concentration tested (4ppb). This concentration is about what Jim Kemp found in canola following treated potatoes in New Brunswick, and is less than what Cynthia Scott-Dupree found in treated canola in Ontario. It is also less than amounts found in treated sunflowers in France. So sublethal effects are discovered and documented. Nor have I said that there is a coverup by Bayer. But a four year delay in doing the analyses on samples from my hives in a study where the control group which did not go to canola growing after treated potatoes did better than the hives going to canola fields (by several parameters measured such as mortality, weight gain, diseases....) is trying my patience, and making me wonder. Regards Stan **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 05:56:46 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stan Sandler Subject: apis cerana in Australia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was wondering if Trevor or another Australian beekeeper would update = the list regarding in incursions of apis cerana around Cairns in = Queensland last year. I googled the subject and found that another hive = and swarm were found earlier this year that are thought related to last = years incursions. How are you dealing with the situation? Did varroa = destructor or jacobsoni come in with the bees? With the finds this year of varroa in South Island NZ, and in Hawaii it = seems varroa is pretty close to conquering the bee inhabited world. Sorry, Stan **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 07:43:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Netherland Antilles Bee Burning Comments: To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This came to me in a circuitous route: =20 I just saw this video on youtube of park rangers in the Netherland = Antilles saying they have too many bees so they have to cull by = burning... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Db4R3O4ZsCWg = =20 Real distressing!! From: deealusby1@aol.com Subject: Re: Netherland Antilles Bee Burning To: mortusm@yahoo.com, organicbeekeepers@yahoogroups.com, = deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 10:10 PM WHAT!......with all the bees dying in the world theeir government = chooses to do this! This needs to be protested and beekeepers wanting to = get bees should flown in at Netherland Antilles government expense to = simply getem and save them the work/time burning............ and then = they get what they want and beekeepers willing to get and want bees, to = then have them...... Dee A. Lusby **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 08:25:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: george abbot Subject: Re: SEVIN Carbamate In-Reply-To: <20081017.214251.22677.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > Are there ANY organic apple growers on this side of the Rockies? I have a > young apple tree with 5 varieties grafted on it and would like to learn > organic backyard methods for apple trees. If you are going to sell, then you have a big problem. But I do not spray and accept the damage and the apples are great. In fact, our church is peeling about 80 pounds today for a church supper. Most of the damage is cosmetic, but that is enough to stop a sale. As an aside, my cherries did not do well with a lack of bees, but I got my bees about the time apples bloomed and have a bounty of them. You can get no-spray varieties, but I tried several and they are not even close to the quality of traditional apples. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 08:10:34 -0400 Reply-To: james.fischer@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Honey bee deterrent. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > What about Fischers Bee Quick that Brushy Mountain sells? All the better dealers carry it, planet-wide. (I'm "Fischer".) > It's supposed to smell nice. Everyone agrees it does. It certainly can help to remove established hives and swarms from residential structures without fear of making the building uninhabitable. A number of people who do bee removals use Bee-Quick to speed up the process, and they likely all have their own techniques, but I suggest that one soak a cloth with some Bee-Quick, put it over the end of a shop-vac hose securing it with a stout rubber band, and attach the hose to the exhaust port of the shop vac. One can then blow fumes into the cavity, one hopes into a hole cut at the far end of the hive away from the entrance. But I must stress that Bee-Quick is NOT going to make someone with no experience in bee removals into an expert, nor is it ever going to drive 100% of the bees out. Yes, one can drive the queen out every so often, but the expectation should be to: a) Drive out the BULK of the bees before removing combs b) Allowing the bulk of the bees to be vacuumed up with a bee-vac off a wall surface without worries about sucking up honey (as sucking up bees AND honey is what kills bees) c) Making the manual removal of combs much quicker and easier, due to the much lower number of bees on the combs. (Also makes the cutting and fitting of the combs to frames, and the sliding of rubber bands over the combs that much easier, again due to a smaller number of bees on the combs.) But bees are very reluctant to leave open brood, and there is no such thing as a proper bee removal where the comb is not removed, which implies that the remover will cut and replace a portion of wall or ceiling. I've only done about half a dozen of these removals per year, so I am not an expert at all. But the fantasy of driving the bees out of a cavity, vacuuming them up off an exterior wall, and driving off with a check in your pocket is a fantasy. You are going to get a mix of plaster dust and honey in your hair when you do this sort of work, and if you don't have both plaster dust and honey in your hair, you aren't done. :) As far as assuring that another swarm will not return to the same house, there are some houses that can be filled with the pumped-in insulating foam, and even then will still have cavities in which bees could set up shop. Some structures are hopeless, and need a annual contract with a beekeeper. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 08:00:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: apis cerana in Australia In-Reply-To: <08620105EE15488DB57F91656FBE16D0@AM1610E1202A> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > Did varroa destructor or jacobsoni come in with the bees? >Stan Or, more importantly, did they carry Tropilaelaps? Mike **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:26:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: montveil Subject: Re: SEVIN Carbamate In-Reply-To: <8c0381120810180525k994744aje0eebf453e3ad2b8@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit george abbot wrote: >> Are there ANY organic apple growers on this side of the Rockies? I have a >> young apple tree with 5 varieties grafted on it and would like to learn >> organic backyard methods for apple trees. >> > > > You can get no-spray varieties, but I tried several and they are not even > close to the quality of traditional apples. > > > East of the Rockies where the summers are humid the will be heavy disease pressure. Also there are many serious insects that will bore inti the apple such curculio. coddling moth and others. There are probably organic methods for reducing damage but you will have to look else ware for help. Cornell has some scab resistant varieties and may have some organic controls. If you have a 5 in 1 grafted tree t it probably has red and golden delicious, macintosh and a few others all of which are very susceptible to both insect and disease damage Dan V in the NC mountains **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 16:55:59 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: FW: [BEE-L] Canadian Honey Councils asking for $ 50 million. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Jim, if the [PEI] beekeepers who were asking for > a moratorium on imidacloprid were not convinced > that it was a problem, then what would be our > motivation for "telling a tale"? > "Telling a tale" implies that you think we > had some ulterior motivation. It was not my intent to accuse the PEI beekeepers of having any type of ulterior motive. I don't doubt for a moment that some PRI beekeepers were convinced. But this did not make their views any less improbable in light of what is known about these pesticides. So, while some beekeepers on PRI certainly believed the tale, they themselves were merely repeating a tale told to them. I've suffered my share of pesticide kills, so I understand how otherwise peaceful men who wouldn't hurt a bee or a fly could get caught up in the righteous fury of pent-up frustration at the use (and consistent misuse!) of pesticides. I'll defer to Dick Marron of CT, who is both a beekeeper and a psychologist on this, but I posted a link a week ago to a study that may explain how this sort of thing happens: http://tinyurl.com/4myeyf or http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/10/03/control-study.html So, localized losses led to a predictable feeling of hopelessness, and a factor outside the beekeepers' control was blamed, complete with an international conspiracy theory to explain how "the truth" was being "covered up". None of this happened spontaneously of course - the beekeepers of PEI had Sharon Labchuk to stir them up and exploit them for her own longstanding fringe political purposes. The news reports from France also fueled the brush fires. Not all beekeepers on PEI were taken in by the easy answer of blaming pesticides, among them Dr. Robert Coffin and Joyce Coffin. Here's a fairly decent summary of the dispute, one that offers a cogent explanation of multiple other factors that could have had the same net effect on the hives. http://tinyurl.com/5gohxn or http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb6685/is_/ai_n29195483?tag=artBody;co l1 I also think it is very interesting that Bob H. made the following points without noting how crucial the points might be to his stated problems: > I was also told temik is easily available > in Florida even by the truck load and off > label use is done often. > Very little is tightly monitored in Florida > including temik. > legislators have passed laws to cover about > every problem but are lax in enforcement of most! > If new rules are passed to rein in big ag then > lobbyists lobby to reduce the number of inspectors > or let the industry regulate itself. Sounds to me like criminal misuse of pesticides could be a significant factor in why Bob has seen so many problems with bees on oranges. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 17:49:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Alf Bashore Subject: Re: Honey bee deterrent. In-Reply-To: <20081017.215406.22677.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why use chemicals of any kind? All the openings on the house need be closed, otherwise there will always be new swarms entering this "breezy" home. Chemicals are not a long term answer. Alf waldig@netzero.com wrote: >>> What about Fischers Bee Quick......... >>> Never used it. Nice smell is a plus.... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 10:37:56 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Geoff Manning Subject: Re: apis cerana in Australia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Did varroa destructor or jacobsoni come in with the bees? >>Stan > > > Or, more importantly, did they carry Tropilaelaps? > Mike Neither have been found as far as I know. Trevor will probably have more up to date info. Geoff Manning **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 02:35:34 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Fwd: [BEE-L] SEVIN Carbamate In-Reply-To: <5E0590091F5349EF9F710870A2C1FE64@AM1610E1202A> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Stan said "I find here that it is very difficult anyway to get the bees to work the late bloom .." "They are paying for the bees and as long as they see flowers they think the bees should be there, even if almost all of them are in the apples." In fact you are describing the correct situation. Bees are going to apples, acacias, eucaliptus an other flowers. Not many visiting the berry fields. How ever there are still flower to be pollinated, specially on late varieties (like briggita, duke and the like). =BFAny ideas on how to "force" the bees to work the blueberries? We tried past season with "sleeping" them with amoniun nitrate in the smoker. It worked for some 3 to 5 days. We know that the late fruit is of small diameter because of poorer pollination. We worked for 24 hour non stop and 2/3 of the colonies are closed in the hive. We place a frame feeder full of water and a mesh instead of the roof. The other third stayed like always for "keeping" pollination service. I will try monday with taking out capped brood frames with bees atached so as to reduce colony size (from full box with super to half box). This will also reduce the risk of apple pollen contamination. Well, good night, I deserve (and need) some sleep... --=20 Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 07:46:40 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Fwd: [BEE-L] SEVIN Carbamate In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10810181735x62052ebh62ff6f722f7eb9a1@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Juanse: >How ever there are still flower to be pollinated, specially on late >varieties (like briggita, duke and the like). >¿Any ideas on how to "force" the bees to work the blueberries? The wild blueberry is different and because it is not planted there are no late "varieties", but there are late clones found in patches through the field. I really do NOT have a very good idea, but I can offer this: 1. For another year you could get the growers to investigate the product sold by Pherotech (look it up on the net, it is a company in Vancouver, Canada that makes insect pheromones) for spraying on crop to increase the bee pollinators. I think that nasonov gland pheromone is the main ingredient. The growers here do not think it is economic, but the average yield here for wild blueberries is about 2,500 kg per hectare with a maximum of about 7,000. I think it must be higher with highbush blueberries. 2. It does work here if I have two fields more than 2 km apart and I switch the hives between fields. The bees are forced to reorient and the first crop they see/smell is blueberries. It only works for a short time and it is a lot of work and so I charge extra to do it. If you happen to go to the sprayed apples to see if the bees are working them could you post to the list. I would be interested to see if you find that they avoid sevin sprayed apples the way they do sevin sprayed blueberries. Stan **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 23:05:21 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Fwd: [BEE-L] SEVIN Carbamate In-Reply-To: <7ACEF433D3934425B96DE0211B0145A2@AM1610E1202A> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "If you happen to go to the sprayed apples to see if the bees are working them could you post to the list. I would be interested to see if you find that they avoid sevin sprayed apples the way they do sevin sprayed blueberries." Stan, I am sorry but probably I won`t have any time. I am going tomorrow morning to take all caped brood frames with bees attached. I will spend with my crew the whole day doing that. Next day I have to travel some 900 km north to San Antonio port to pick up some pollen traps I bought to Lloyd. Following day to the hospital to check the hart of one of my daugthers. On saturday a party to celebrate 25 year out of school. A busy week ;) Will be back next sunday. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:59:45 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Honey bee deterrent. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>...otherwise there will always be new swarms entering this "breezy" home. Chemicals are not a long term answer. I agree with you. This house used to have cedar shingles and the homeowner put on vinyl siding earlier this year in the hope, among others, to keep the bees out. The siding job was decent and the bees had to struggle to squeeze between the aluminum trim and the vinyl siding and then crawl another 25" to get to the first honey comb behind the insulation in the floor joists bet. the 1st and 2nd floors... I was floored by their determination. Or was it desparation. The squeezing was particularly tough on the bees... While I hate using chemicals, it's impossible to find and seal all such passages on a big house. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 01:17:16 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Honey bee deterrent. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>Everyone agrees it does. It certainly can help to remove established hives and swarms from residential structures... I might try it in a tree removal. Unless the hole is large enough to get an arm inside, it's not possible/easy to remove the combs without cutting the tree. No need for Bee Quick in structure removals since structures can be disassembled. I am interested in the substance as a deterrent though after a colony has been completely removed and the nest space filled with insulation. I want to deter another swarm from moving into an adjacent section of the wall. It's impossible for any remover to insulate an entire structure without a tremendous cost. If Bee Quick can be used as a deterrent, how long will it last before the active ingredients evaporate or disintegrate? I'd like something that will last for at least a couple of seasons. >>Yes, one can drive the queen out every so often... Perfect in a tree application perhaps. >>But the fantasy of driving the bees out of a cavity, vacuuming them up off an exterior wall, and driving off with a check in your pocket is a fantasy. I did not notice anyone having such a fantasy... This sort of half-done job would be guaranteed liability and an invitation for law suits. Besides you would still leave a lot of bees behind! What owner would present you with a check when there are bees still flying? Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 07:56:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Peter_Dight?= Subject: Re: Fwd: [BEE-L] SEVIN Carbamate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ¿Any ideas on how to "force" the bees to work the blueberries? The third generation, eighty year old, owner of the 30 acre orchard which is my main apiary site told me, when discussing how to keep my bees off the flowering rape (canola) when his apples were in flower, that placing a flowering spur off on apple trees across the hive entrance triggers the bees to work the apples. However, as they are his apples, and I live several miles away, I've not tried this myself. Peter Cambridge UK **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 09:03:34 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Honey bee deterrent. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I am interested in the substance as a deterrent > though after a colony has been completely removed > and the nest space filled with insulation. I want > to deter another swarm from moving into an adjacent > section of the wall. No such substance exists. I was paid some serious money to "look into the question" by the people who wanted to "keep bees away" from seedless mandarin oranges, I think I can safely say that the only way to "keep bees away" over the long term is to attract them to something else that is consistently more tempting. Therefore, the only practical solution I can offer is to suggest that you place a well-baited (old comb, pheromone lure, and well-used deep) bait hive near the target structure. Give the bees a better choice of home, and they won't set up shop in the walls. This is exactly why I suggested the "long-term contract" in my first response to your questions. > No need for [repellents] in structure removals since > structures can be disassembled. Those who do it more often seem to disagree. > If Bee Quick can be used as a deterrent, how long will > it last before the active ingredients evaporate or > disintegrate? A matter of minutes. Less than an hour. Depends upon ambient temperature, cavity size, and airflow. While humans are very repelled by even tiny trace levels of Butyric Anhydride, for very long periods, the Butyric Anhydride products have about the same useful period in terms of having an effect on bees. > I'd like something that will last for at > least a couple of seasons. No such substance exists. You should come to one of the Long Island Beekeepers meetings http://www.longislandbeekeepers.org and ask the more experienced bee removers like the Bloom brothers. They might have some better advice, but I'd suggest a baited swarm trap hive. Maybe two, just to be sure. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:51:13 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Honey bee deterrent. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>No such substance exists. One person suggested almond extract. If it does deter bees (I have never used it), it may work just fine with periodic re-application by the homeowner. >>You should come to one of the Long Island Beekeepers meetings http://www.longislandbeekeepers.org and ask the more experienced bee removers like the Bloom brothers. I wish I had more time to go to meetings but one does not need to go to a meeting to speak to someone... :-) I know and periodically speak with Rich Blohm. I do AT LEAST the same number of removals. Not to be arrogant, I get called to remove colonies where others said they would only spray. Some darn property owners just don't want to kill honey bees... Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:52:13 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: chemical free beekeeping conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The second meeting for organicbeekeepers list is about to take place in LIn= coln, NE and figured time to send emails out to spread word. Michael Bush i= n Nebr is handling the planning and meeting. Please see information and url= below for list of speakers etc.. =A0 Dee A. Lusby ----------------------------------------------- =A0 Southeast Community College Continuing Education Center 301 S. 68th Street Place Lincoln, NE Cost: $95 Friday November 21 Check-in 11:30 a.m. Noon-5 p.m. Saturday November 22 Check-in 7:30 a.m. 8 a.m.- 5 p.m. Lunch provided Sunday November 23 Check-in 7:30 a.m. 8 a.m.- Noon For more information, contact: Nancy Holman Southeast Community College 402-437-2712 1-800-828-0072, ext. 2712 nholman@southeast. edu Registration Deadline: November 14, 2008 http://www.bushfarm s.com/organic_ beekeeping_ meeting.htm Michael Bush =0A=0A__________________________________________________=0ADo You Yahoo!?= =0ATired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around =0Ahttp:= //mail.yahoo.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 05:04:56 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: No apples, no Honey, No bees : UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.farminguk.com/news/Honeybee-Decline-Threatens-English-Apple-Orchards8767.asp http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/10/16/eahoney116.xml -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 05:05:52 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Kansas honey output falling; CCD not to blame MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.nebraska.tv/Global/story.asp?S=9181168&nav=menu605_2 -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 05:11:21 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Bee Honey as an Environmental Bioindicator of Pestic ides=?WINDOWS-1252?Q?=92?= Occurrence in Six Agricultural Areas of Greece MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.springerlink.com/content/3n73ru85x6qk3r58/ -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 05:15:07 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Honey production in Manitoba was below average this summer. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline http://www.pembinavalleyonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8670&Itemid=313 -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:33:55 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.com" Subject: Clarification was: chemical free beekeeping conference Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A small clarification: The upcoming conference in Nebraska has the theme of Chemical Free Beekeeping, and many of the speakers are involved with the Organic list. With that said, the conference is run by The Nebraska Beekeepers Association. This theme was voted upon by members of the Nebraska club. We have also been told that the theme for EAS will be similar in 2009. Please do remember that since this is being done at a college, there will be no 'at the door' registration...the registration deadline is November 14, and appears to be firm. The brochure with the registration form can be found here: http://www.nebraskabeekeepers.org/content/NE_BeekeepingConf_Nov08_web.pdf I don't know specifics of everyone's talks, but I will say that Ramona is working on her talk about microbial activity in the beehive. This is a hugely under studied and appreciated aspect of bees and beekeeping. There has been some good research (especially by Martha Gilliam), and the Tucson lab especially has been extremely helpful with providing Ramona with copies of some of these studies. IMHO, this is the most interesting beekeeping topic that never gets discussed. These microbes (at least 8000 types in a healthy hive) are not only responsible for pollen fermentation, but also produce nutrients required by the bees, and low levels of some pathogens actually keep each other in check! The updated list of speakers: * Dee Lusby * Dean Stiglitz * Laurie (Ramona) Herboldsheimer * Corwin Bell * Michael Bush * Laura Tyler * Michael Palmer Look forward to seeing some of you in Nebraska next month! deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:36:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: montveil Subject: Re: SEVIN Carbamate In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10810170751j25659aaej8af844c54f434e3c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Juanse Barros wrote: > Hi everyone, specially Mr Bayer > > I was noticed today that tomorrow a neigbouring Apple field will spray SEVIN > XLR plus from Bayer. This is a carbamate insecticide > Sevin XLR Plus has a sticker that reduces contact with bees. The Bees should not be on apple trees as there are no blossoms on them at this time of the year. HOWEVER, if there are blooming plants/weeds in the spray area bees may be visiting them. Check with the neighbor and see if there are blooming plants in the spray area. It will give you a good chance to explain to him insecticide effects on your bees. There are two solutions to orchard weeds. One is to spray the orchard floor with 24-D to eliminate the weeds and it will also hold over until next season, and/or two mow the orchard before spraying insecticides if blooming weeds are present. WHEN YOU APPROACH HIM DO IT IN AN INFORMATIVE MANNER AND NOT IN A CONFORMATIONAL WAY. Gain a friend as he undoubtedly does not want to harm your bees as they are his workers during pollination Cooperation and education is the key Dan Veilleux in the NC mountains **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:22:20 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Clarification was: chemical free beekeeping conference In-Reply-To: <20081021.083355.24000.0@webmail12.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please note, the final registration date is 14 November 2008 and we are bei= ng told no signups after that date due to needing to know in advance who is= attending due to food preparation and other requirements of the college. S= o please help the Nebraska Beekeepers Association to have a successful meet= ing and good turnout by signing up prior to 14th so you won't have to be tu= rned away at door on 21st Nov. =A0 Also, please note that Michael Palmer will be speaking also on bee breeding= and I myself and looking forward to his presentation with great interest, = besides others talking, as he is a very knowledgeable person.=20 =A0 Should be a very exciting meeting with lots of info passing hands. =A0 Dee A. Lusby =0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:30:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Paul Oliphant Subject: Re: Kansas honey output falling; CCD not to blame In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10810202005o6aa882d1rd660c02d0f02bbdb@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is the source article http://www.hutchnews.com/Todaystop/honeyproblem Juanse Barros said the following on 10/20/2008 10:05 PM: > http://www.nebraska.tv/Global/story.asp?S=9181168&nav=menu605_2 > **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:27:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: FW: [BEE-L] No apples, no Honey, No bees : UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 ________________________________ From: Mike Rowbottom [mailto:cognant.mike@btconnect.com] Sent: Tue 2008.10.21 16:45 Please do not believe all that you read in the papers. In my = experience this year the poor honey harvest is almost exclusively down to the cold = wet weather prevalent for most of the "summer" . Regards to all Mike Rowbottom HARROGATE North Yorkshire UK **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:00:35 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Claude Hachey Subject: Effect of oxalic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am aware of the effectiveness of dribbling oxalic acid or vaporizing it to control mites during the broodless period but I have been unable to find any answers in the way that it kills mites. I am wondering if in the case of vaporizing, mites coming into contact with the crystals are somehow affected in their ability to feed? And if using the dribble method, is it also contact and if so, what is the point of mixing the acid with sugar syrup - or is it a case of bees ingesting the sugar syrup/oxalic acid mixture and then killing the mites feeding on the bees? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:12:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: SEVIN Carbamate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 21/10/2008 16:36:26 GMT Standard Time, montveil@SKYBEST.COM writes: The Bees should not be on apple trees as there are no blossoms on them at this time of the year. I think there might be in Chile where Juanse lives. It must be spring there. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:28:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: SEVIN Carbamate In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I think there might be in Chile where Juanse lives. It must be spring there. Thanks Chris, efectively it is spring over here. I think the problem with SEVIN is the Bayer eufemism when registering an insecticide as a blossom thinning product. In fact a per label indication over here, SEVIN should be applied at "petal fall" which means that there is still some flowers left. I guesstimate around 10% to 20%. Apples blossom are very atractive to bees, pollen is very protein rich and nectar is thick. Till now, even after four attemps to receive an answer back from Mr Bayer I do not have a clue about the technical reason behind using an insecticide for blossom thinning.I would expect an hormone not an insecticide.Without further data I can only guess that the thinning mechanism is by killing all pollinator around ;) -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************