========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 21:10:23 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: jim wolf Subject: Re: Bee stings >On Mon, 31 Jul 1995, Keith Hooker wrote: > >> As an observation, I have come to the conclusion that bees do not >> like sweat especially from under my wrist watch strap and therefore >> remove it and wash my wrist before working bees. I know only too >> well that if I wear the watch (it has a metal strap) I will be stung >> in that area. >> >> Do rings work in a similar way? I have a sygnet ring but the main >> part is thin and perhaps the finger does not collect sweat like the >> area under a wrist watch because I am seldom stung on any finger. > >My understanding is that the contrast of the strap or band is apparent to >bees vision and that they are attracted to sting at such places. > > >W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK >Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 >Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net >Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka > >Hi. You all might think I'm crazy but I routinely gety stung by 25 to 30 bees every other day as treatment for Multiple Sclerosis. I have been doing this for almost two years and can report nothing but good results. I have more stamina & energy. My balance is better and I'm convinced it is keeping my MS stable. Any comments are welcome. I also have a web page under construction http://www.pacificrim.net/~jwolf Jim Wolf It's a small world But, I wouldn't want to clean it! The Wolif ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 07:48:57 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Laheij Subject: MEDE DEAR READER, I HAVE A LOT OF HONEY AT THE MOMENT BUT DON'T WANT TO EAT IT ALL. SO MY QUESTION IS IF THERE IS SOMEBODY WITH AN ORIGINAL RECEPY FOR MAKING MEDE OR AN OTHER DRINK FOR COLD WINTER NIGHTS ? THANKS FOR THE EFFORT. ROBERT LAHEIJ R.LAHEIJ@MIE.KUN.NL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 02:06:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frederick Chase Subject: When is comb honey ready to eat? Thanks to those who responded to my recent request for price suggestions for the comb honey (Hogg half-combs) I am donating to a charity for them to sell. Now I have a new question: today I took off another super of these comb honey containers and my sampling of it seemed to indicate that the honey was not "ripe" yet even though it was capped over. Is that possible? If so, how long should I wait before giving it to this charity? I want the buyers to be pleased with it. If it is not yet ready for eating I suppose I should not store it in my freezer, should I? Thanks in advance for any help you can give. Fred Chase ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 02:48:16 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Adams Subject: Sweat, watches, jewelry I guess I have drawn a slightly different conclusion... I think bees are drawn to sweat for moisture and salts... I used to wear a braided leather belt and bees were there in abundance landing, sucking, etc. I was only in trouble when turning or wind change direction and an untucked-in shirt tail suddenly covered them... I think they do someting similar for watches be it leather banded or metal....trouble comes when wrist is flexed...skin bunches a bit before the watch band and they get pinched or sense sudden change in position,light,movement, etc.. I don't believe it is reflected light and/or sound as if I am were gloves even ventilated ones while wearing watches...one on each arm...I haven't noticed any problem..... Arm pit and groin area when wearing shorts and a muscle shirt in 90 to 100 degree F heat ARE PRIME targets Cannot comment on rings or ear rings as I don't wear/have any of these.... Perhaps flex watchband holds odors much light a light wool jacket.....wool and bees don't mix...wool jacket, wool socks, wool pants are no no nos! Then again that's how I was dressed when I first encountered a knocked over hive some 15 or 20 years ago....I was fascinated then, discovering queen, brood, workers, and drones....and I still spend as much time as I can observing them today....nothing like napping and/or daydreaming a few feet from the landing board...wondering where they have been, what they are collecting today, etc......One can't describe the cool fragrant breeze my hives produce during a honeyflow.. Back to work.....Hope to see some of you at EAS'95 later this week. Sincerely, kla@cc.purdue.edu - Ken Adams, Adams' Apiaries Let me sweeten your day! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 10:23:24 +0200 Reply-To: Michael Haberl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Haberl Subject: Re: Address for a.i. supplier? You may want to try: W. Seip Bienenzuchtbedarf Hauptstr. 32 - 36 D - 6308 Butzbach - Ebersgoens Germany Tel.: ++49 6447 6605 Fax: ++49 6447 6816 They will send you a free catalogue on equipment used for a.i. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 07:54:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Hovermale" Subject: Re: MEDE Comments: To: Robert Laheij In-Reply-To: <01HTJV2GPGF69ZMP2F@VMS.UCI.KUN.NL> I have had good luck using honey to make wine. I takkke about 3-4 gallons of water and add honey, until my hydrometer gives me about 15% alcohol potential. I try to end up with 5 gallons of this mix. I then add a generic wine yeast and let it ferment in an open container for aboout 4 days. after that I siphon it into a glass coontainer such as a bottled water bottle and seal it with an airlock. I then let it work until the airlock stops bubbling. this may take months. I then bottllle it in old wine bottles, screw on caps or cork is fine. you can drink a little then but it is better if it ages for a year or two. On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Robert Laheij wrote: > DEAR READER, > > I HAVE A LOT OF HONEY AT THE MOMENT BUT DON'T WANT TO EAT IT ALL. SO MY > QUESTION IS IF THERE IS SOMEBODY WITH AN ORIGINAL RECEPY FOR MAKING MEDE OR > AN OTHER DRINK FOR COLD WINTER NIGHTS ? > > THANKS FOR THE EFFORT. > > ROBERT LAHEIJ > R.LAHEIJ@MIE.KUN.NL > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 07:27:03 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: MEDE In-Reply-To: On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Carl H. Hovermale wrote: > I have had good luck using honey to make wine. I take about 3-4 > gallons of water and add honey, until my hydrometer gives me about 15% > alcohol potential. I try to end up with 5 gallons of this mix. I then > add a generic wine yeast and let it ferment in an open container for > aboout 4 days. after that I siphon it into a glass coontainer such as a > bottled water bottle and seal it with an airlock. I then let it work > until the airlock stops bubbling. this may take months. I then bottle > it in old wine bottles, screw on caps or cork is fine. you can drink a > little then but it is better if it ages for a year or two. Right on! I've made a lot of this mead over the years, however I find that with our honey and water at least that it gets 'stuck' about half way thru the primary ferment. Therefore, I use about 450 ml of dibasic ammonium phosphate as yeast food. I also add 300 ml of acid blend to adjust acidity for taste and keeping. This is to make a 45 gallon (55 US gallon) drum full. These are the only two chemicals I use, other than the chlorination that comes with the city water. I add the honey (120 lbs) and wait a few days for the chlorine to disappear before adding 10 packets of champagne yeast. Sometimes I add a few tea bags. The acid is a natural item and the dibasic ammonium phosphate is entirely consumed by the yeast. Should any remain it is apparently a mild diuretic - however experimentation has showm that this is the minimum I can use to get fermentation to finish. I leave it in the drum until the wine is clear. Sometimes a little brewers gelatin helps settle it, but usually if the honey is top notch, the mixture becomes crystal clear over time. Only then do I siphon into gallon plastic milk bottles to age. A year is a bout right, although by storing it in the refrigerator for a few weeks, the drinkability can be enhanced. Careful decanting before drinking is the secret of enjoyment, because the dregs are awful. The mead is dry and potent. For those who like a sweeter wine, at time of serving, do like the Romans and add a teaspoon of honey in the bottom of your glass. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 07:30:56 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: When is comb honey ready to eat? In-Reply-To: <950801020458_127617141@aol.com> On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Frederick Chase wrote: > Now I have a new question: today I took off another super of these > comb honey containers and my sampling of it seemed to indicate > that the honey was not "ripe" yet even though it was capped over. Is that > possible? Why do you think it is not ripe? What do you mean by ripe? I've never found any capped comb that is not best eaten right away. In fact it is quite enjoyable when you come across it in the hive uncapped and snack on it :) > If it is not yet ready for eating I suppose I should not store it in > my freezer, should I? Again, why not? Freezing suspends all processes - ageing, granulating, maturing. It is the best way to extend the life of comb honey. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 09:47:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Quarantined hives My instincts say no, but I would like your advice on buying these hives. I called the local bee inspector to see if he knew anyone with hives for sale & he said he has around 50 hives under quarantine for AFB that were not properly cared for. He has burned several hives. He feels the beekeeper would sell the ones that pass when the quarantine is over in about 1 month. What do you think? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund (rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu) Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 08:52:01 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: Bee stings brian cooley writes: ---- I am very glad to hear that! Bee stings are funny things. I remember a story in the media from some weeks ago that involved a Texas preacher in his 80's. He was stung several hundred times, from killer-domesticate cross, and that probably would have been enough to do myself in or any other healthy person. Somehow this man survived. His son had to use a CO2 fire extinguisher to knock the bees down before the perimedics could get to him. Pretty amazing. got any screen writers out there? sounds like the beginnings of a pretty good anti-bee horror flick. maybe that's why they're called "B" movies? yuk. john ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 08:54:09 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: Bee stings bees are very sensitive to smells. i suspect that the sweat generated liberates all those soap and natural oils we exude, and bees go for the spot doing the exuding. plus the contrasting colors zero them in. john ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 19:43:19 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Staffan Strom Subject: Re: MEDE In-Reply-To: <01HTJV2GPGF69ZMP2F@VMS.UCI.KUN.NL> On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Robert Laheij wrote: > DEAR READER, > > I HAVE A LOT OF HONEY AT THE MOMENT BUT DON'T WANT TO EAT IT ALL. SO MY > QUESTION IS IF THERE IS SOMEBODY WITH AN ORIGINAL RECEPY FOR MAKING MEDE OR > AN OTHER DRINK FOR COLD WINTER NIGHTS ? > > If you have access to Internet by a Webreader I will recomend this two webs for meadrecipes and other driks. I hope your winter nights then be better. http://www.atd.ucar.edu/rdp/gfc/mead/mead.html http://alpha.rollanet.org/cm3/CatsMeow3.html Cheers Staffan Strom ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 13:20:48 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Nabors Subject: Re: BUMBLEBEES Anyone having sources of information on "Bumblebees and Pollination." Please send a citation. Also, I would like a list of sources where bumblebees may be purchased. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 13:34:58 +22300129 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Quarantined hives In-Reply-To: <199508011347.JAA18807@freenet2.freenet.ufl.edu> from "Kelley Rosenlund" at Aug 1, 95 09:47:14 am I wouldn't buy any hives from someone with a history of AFB. Adam -- ________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Adaptive significance-- what's that? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 18:41:36 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hooker Organization: Technology Management Ltd Subject: Re: MEDE I add water to the cappings (and honey if necessary) to give myself about 5 gallons of liquid at a specific gravity of 1.100 or 13% when it works down. I usually add a yeast starter and set it going cappings and all. The cappings come out after a couple of days. When I start fermentation on the cappings it usually works down well possibly because of all the junk - pollen etc, but when it is started as just honey, water and yeast it often plays difficult and sticks ie does not ferment down fully and clear. Keith. >>> Keith JM Hooker <<< >>> Technology Management Ltd <<< >>> WHITSTABLE Kent CT5 4ED UK <<< ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 14:21:51 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Quarantined hives In-Reply-To: <199508011347.JAA18807@freenet2.freenet.ufl.edu> On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Kelley Rosenlund wrote: >I called the local bee inspector to see if he knew anyone with hives >for sale & he said he has around 50 hives under quarantine for AFB that were >not properly cared for. He has burned several hives. He feels the beekeeper >would sell the ones that pass when the quarantine is over in about 1 month. It all depends on what kind of beekeeper you are. If you are knowledgeable well experienced fastidious and use of TM is allowed in your region and the hives are *cheap*, and there is no serious breakdown in the hives you are buying (or scale) Then and only then, go ahead, Otherwise forget it. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 09:35:17 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Rice Subject: Re: BUMBLEBEES -Reply >Anyone having sources of information on "Bumblebees and >Pollination." Please send a citation. Also, I would like a > list of sources where bumblebees may be purchased. Ray, There is a list server for bumble bees . To subscribe, send a message to bombus-request@csi.uottawa.ca Regards, Robert Rice Apiculture Service Manager (South Island) Ministry of Agriculture P.O. Box 24, Lincoln, New Zealand. E-mail ricer@lincoln.mqm.govt.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 15:45:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lane Greer Subject: Re: BUMBLEBEES In-Reply-To: <9507018073.AA807311848@ext.missouri.edu> from "Ray Nabors" at Aug 1, 95 01:20:48 pm In the April 1994 issue of APIS, bumblebees are mentioned as another pollen bee. The article says to contact: Biobest Biological Systems, Llse Velden 18, B-2260 Westerlo, Belgium. Phone +32/14/23 17 01, fax +32/14/23 18 31. If you find out more about bumblebees and how to get them, please let me know. Lane Greer Fayetteville, Arkansas ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 14:00:15 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: BUMBLEBEES in the july 95 issue of american bee journal, there is a discussion on bumblebees. can't remember if they listed sources. john ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 18:22:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: HoneyPopRecipe Composed ASCII/Disk via ASCII Protocol. tu 1aug95 1940Z Friend in Scotland, 1. Here's the honey pop (soda) recipe I've been using since B4 1988. Made only in summer time & drunk like mad by my 35-yr- old dau & 68-yr-old me. 2. Ingredients: 4 US gallons well water 6# light honey (2 qts) (I use black locust) 1/8 teaspoon wine yeast (I use Epernay 2, Pasteur champagne, or Montrachet-- whatever I have on hand) 2 fl oz Extract (root beer, sassafras, cola, etc.--have a large variety on hand) 3. Procedure: Put water in 6 gal white plastic bucket which has valve on bottom Add honey--I use part of the above as warm/hot water to make honey dispersal easier Add extract Sprinkle yeast on top (If water is warm, it'll dissolve in no time flat) Stir & bottle immediately 4. I have ready to go eight 2-litre plastic soda bottles w/screw tops, previously rinsed in a Campden solution (4 tabs to pint water) & drained upside down in a pint bottle. (As one is draining, I'm Campden swishing another, w/its screw cap on, not my palm, and then replace the draining one). 5. Bottles are filled from the bucket, a couple of inches from the top (to prevent spill over) then later filled to the top from a server bottle. 6. Put in a warm place (at least 70 degrees F.), on their sides, w/ the screw end slightly elevated), for 24 hours or until the bottles are firm. 7. All are stored in a refrigerator for daily use. 8. Note: Mixture shuld be tasted B4 yeast is added; if not sweet enuf, add more honey; if 2 sweet, water. Two oz. of extract is sufficient for four-gallon batch. Campden rinsing is important to prevent offtastes. Even tho refrigerated, caps shud be "exhausted" carefully. 9. If U want to see fotos of process, check the American Bee Journal (Nov 93, pp. 771-773): John Iannuzzi, "Honey Soda Made Easy: For the `beeginner who wants a superior non-alcoholic [sic] drink at a ridiculously low price, here's the step-by-step process," or same magazine (Jul 87, pp. 485-587), same author: "Let's Make Honey Pop: You've had honey- wine and honey beer? Why not a honey soft drink?" Bonne chance. Honey beer & honey wine recipes will follow. Ian the mede maker Ellicott City (founded 1772) MD usa tu 1 aug 95 1807 DST ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 08:42:53 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hooker Organization: Technology Management Ltd Subject: Re: Sweat, watches, jewelry I wonder after reading new comments if the bees are going for sweat because it is salty? The resultant stings we get are because we trap them on various parts of ourselves and all these parts would have surface salt due to being sweaty - sorry but I assume we all sweat! Having said that I do have a friend who keeps a large number of hives and he used to have one of those bee hats with a veil that just sat on your hair. Unfortunately he was very thin on top and they always stung his forehead through the hat when he got sweaty. He cured this by getting a Sherrif hat. Any more comments.. >>> Keith JM Hooker <<< >>> Technology Management Ltd <<< >>> WHITSTABLE Kent CT5 4ED UK <<< ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 20:03:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: BUMBLEBEES Try posting to the bumblebee list, bombus@csi.uottawa.ca Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 20:41:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Scott A. Binkley" Subject: Re: Sweat, watches, jewelry >I wonder after reading new comments if the bees are going for sweat >because it is salty? The resultant stings we get are because we trap >them on various parts of ourselves and all these parts would have >surface salt due to being sweaty - sorry but I assume we all sweat! If the bees were going for the salt, why would they sting you?? /sb ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- It is far better to be feared than loved. When people love you, they will use you to their own ends. When they fear you, they will do all in their power to gain your apprecation. -Machiavelli, The Prince ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 22:26:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Quarantined hives Should you buy known AFB-contaminated beehives? In a word, trust your instincts and don't buy unless you are absolutely sure you know what you are doing, and are prepared to take a lot of extra precautions. This year, I was given a beeyard in which AFB had appeared, but had been declared to be eradicated last year. Guess what showed up there this spring. If you decide to go ahead with the purchase, then I would advise you to keep all equipment from the infected beeyard isolated from whatever other equipment you may have, and to thoroughly wash and sterilize all your beekeeping tools (and yourself) after any visits to that beeyard. Treat anything that comes out of that beeyard as if it was radioactively contaminated. If you extract supers from that yard, clean and disinfect your extracter (Clorox will work here) before you extract supers from a clean beeyard, and make sure you keep your supers segregated by beeyard (both before and after extracting). I would not treat the colonies in the yard with Terramycin, as that doesn't kill the AFB spores. By curing the disease bacteria but leaving the spores, infected equipment will appear to be clean. You want to find out what equipment is infected, and what is really clean. Your whole management scheme should be directed toward finding infected hives and equipment, and dealing with them appropriately. Now for the good news: AFB contaminated equipment can be decontaminated. In Maryland, the Dept. of Agriculture has an Ethylene Dioxide (ETO) chamber, whichs kills AFB spores and makes the equipment useful again (drawn combs and all). The fee charged is a small fraction of the equipment replacement cost. I have used decontaminated equipment successfully. Hopefully Florida has such a chamber (if not, you should lobby the state Dept. of Agriculture. You can tell them it will make the State some money (and beekeepers will be glad to pay it). As a guess, I would call the equipment clean if it has uninfected bees in it for a year after the last known AFB equipment was removed from the beeyard (this includes old boxes and other assorted stuff lying around the beeyard edges. Remember, no Terramycin during that period. Good luck (whatever you decide to do). W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 22:38:14 +22300129 Reply-To: adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Quarantined hives In-Reply-To: <950801222639_45881258@aol.com> from "Bill Miller" at Aug 1, 95 10:26:52 pm Finding AFB in hives with Virginia ETO stickers on them was a common occurrence while I was a bee inspector in that state. If you want to get rid of AFB, burn the comb, and scorch or paint the boxes. Why mess with the frames. I have the USDA recipe for a frame sanitation bath if you want it. Just reply to this. Adam -- ________________________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Adaptive significance-- what's that? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 02:16:28 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Daniel J. Salemson" Subject: Re: When is comb honey ready to eat? On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Frederick Chase asked: >Now I have a new question: today I took off another super of these >comb honey containers and my sampling of it seemed to indicate >that the honey was not "ripe" yet even though it was capped over. Is that >possible? If so, how long should I wait before giving it >to this charity? I want the buyers to be pleased with it. The bees cap over the honeycomb after they have reduced the moisture content of the nectar to less than 18% water and added the proper enzymes. As soon as it is capped, the honey is ready for consumption. Some plants will make a very bitter honey which the bees don't mind, but your customers will. >If it is not yet ready for eating I suppose I should not store it in >my freezer, should I? If it is not edible after you extract it, either return it to the bees or use it to make mead. Storage of honey at temperatures below 50 degrees F. (10 degr. C) will retard changes in color, taste characteristics and granulation. Dan Salemson Chapel Hill, North Carolina ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 04:22:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: First B-"Man" Comments: To: br0005@epfl2.epflbalto.org Comments: cc: fkovac@CapAccess.org Mein lieber Freund, Bruno, 1. Just in case U've 4gotten, I leave today (0500) for EAS Wooster, my first in 1978 and my last, insha allah, this year. 2. Know Jesus, Know peace. No Jesus, No peace. Aufwiedersehen und vaya con Dios. Johann der BieneMensch Ellicott City (founded 1772) md usa wed 2 aug 95 0825Z ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 01:39:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Collin Forbes Subject: Accidental Beekeeper In-Reply-To: <199508020041.UAA23275@caracas.terraport.net> I suppose it had to happen--for a long time, I have been just happily reading this list in hopes of someday getting my act together and setting up a hive. Today my parents discovered a small colony of bees in their backyard and are wanting me to remove/relocate it or find someone to do the job. I would like to try "capture" this colony and try to keep it alive through the winter. First I need to identify the bees. My mother thinks that they are honeybees. They are currently living in comb against bare dirt in a shallow depression under a board. The comb is about 6 inches in diameter. I think they may be bombus rather than apis, after hearing stories of honeybees setting up housekeeping in high places like trees, chimneys, attics, and walls, and bumblebees in heaps of lawn debris. I don't think I can tell a honeybee from a bumblebee without a side-by-side comparison, however. So my question is what will I need/expect for the task? I plan to phone an extension agent tomorrow afternoon, but I'd like to be able to fall back on other advice as well. I already have a veil. :) /''' Collin Forbes c oo collinf@uidaho.edu `` > `'` http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~collinf/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 02:20:34 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Richard Foote, RBU, SFO, 415-598-5596" Organization: VeriFone Subject: Re: Accidental Beekeeper Comments: To: lamichaels@aol.com Congratulations on getting started -- we have our first hive (not mine really, but I get to help) and i is a really amazing thing to watch -- bees are really neat!! I want an observation hive so I can watch them coming and going and everything. I thought about one of those littel spy camera things but then I realized it is dark in the hive :) Richard_f1@verifone.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 06:53:28 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hooker Organization: Technology Management Ltd Subject: Re: Quarantined hives > I wouldn't buy any hives from someone with a history of AFB. > > Adam Finkelstein I fully endorse Adams attitude. Why buy in a problem, no matter how careful you are destroying the comb and burning, sods law says you will have overlooked something and AFB will re-invade. TM does not cure it only masks the problem, odd spores can and do survive even repeated doses. Keith >>> Keith JM Hooker <<< >>> Technology Management Ltd <<< >>> WHITSTABLE Kent CT5 4ED UK <<< ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 07:52:04 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Comb honey not ripe?!? Comments: To: "Frederick J. Chase" , bee-l@ALBANY.BITNET Fred, If the bees have capped it, it is ripe. The freezer step is one that you should not skip. Comb honey most likely contains wax moth eggs. It is advisable to freeze your comb honey for 24 hrs prior to packing/marketing (or in your case, donating) the combs. The freezing step will kill the wax moth eggs. Skip that step and the eggs will hatch into wax moth larvae, which will not amuse your customers! I recommend that you read a copy of _Honey_in_the_Comb_ by who(?) Killion, printed by Dadant Press. It covers all aspects of comb honey production (although the method outlined is quite labor intensive). The book also contains an excellent section on raising your own queens. Good luck with your combs! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 15:27:06 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: International Bee Research Subject: no subject (file transmission) Comments: To: socinsct@albnyvm1.BITNET, "hugo.veerkamp" , polpal-l@uoguelph.ca ===================================================== B-MAIL A monthly newsletter on issues and events in the bee world, provided by IBRA, the world information service for bee science and beekeeping. >From Dr Pamela Munn, Editor Bee World **August/1995** ===================================================== ********************* Magic bullets ********************* I came across an interesting paper this month amongst a pile of scanning that materialized on my desk, which prompted me to find out more. It appears that bees are proving to be effective carriers of biocontrol agents. Studies are being carried out to discover how honey bees can be used to spread beneficial bacteria and viruses to crops and orchards, where they come into contact with pest organisms. The pests are not entirely killed off, but reduced to such a level that is not economically damaging. The standard method of controlling pests is of course spraying, resulting in large quantities of pesticides being spread into the environment. Bees are able to target the crops very specifically avoiding this problem. Examples of this type of bio control include fire blight, a serious pest of orchard fruits such as apple and pear. It is caused by Erwinia amylovora. Johnson et al*. have been testing the ability of honey bees to disperse the bacteria Pseudomonas fluorescens, which is antagonistic to E. amylovora, to apple and pear blossoms. They attached pollen inserts to each hive, forcing the bees to walk through a freeze-dried preparation of the bacteria as they left the hive. Another group* working on fire blight control used P. fluorescens and E. herbicola in their study. They found that 92% of the apple flowers in a 2.6-ha orchard were inoculated with E. herbicola. Both studies concluded that honey bees are efficient vectors of fire blight pathogens. Peng et al*. have looked at controlling the strawberry pest, Botrytis cinerea. They have developed a dispenser to fit in the hive, which contaminates bees with either corn meal or a mixture of corn meal and talc, inoculated with Gliocladium roseum. They found that the amount of G. roseum on flowers treated using honey bees was higher and more stable than sprayed plants, and effectively suppressed B. cinerea on both flowers and fruit. More recently, workers in Georgia, USA*, have reported work on using honey bees to spread the Heliothis nuclear polyhedrosis virus (HNPV) into fields of clover to control Lepidopteran larvae, such as Helicoverpa zea and Heliothis virescens. Bees are already being used commercially to pollinate crops and it seems a logical step forward if they can also be used to control pests. So far, work has concentrated on honey bees, but many economically valuable crops are grown in greenhouses, where honey bees are not useful, or are more effectively pollinated by other bees, such as bumble bees. It would be an interesting development if these bees proved as effective biocontrol vectors. Work is still in the early stages of development, and the extent to which it proves useful will depend greatly on an improved understanding of the interrelationships between the bees and the plants they forage on, and their target pests. Further reading: 1. GROSS, H; HAMM, J J; CARPENTER, J E (1994) Design and applicaiton of a hive mounted device that uses honey bees (Hym: Apidea) to disseminate Heliothis nuclear polyhedrosis viruses. Environmental Entomology 23(2): 492-501. 2. JOHNSON, K B; STOCKWELL, V O; BURGETT, D M; SUGAR, D; LOPER, J E (1993) dispersal of erwinia amylovora and pseudomonas fluorescens by honey bees from hives to apple and pear blossoms. Phytopathology 83(50: 478-484. 3. PENG, G; SUTTON, J C; KEVAN, P G (1992) Effectiveness of honey bees for applying the biocontrol agent Gliocladium roseum to strawberry flowers to suppress Botrytis cinerea. Canadian Journal of Plant Pathology 14(2): 117-129. 4. THOMSON, S V; HANSEN, D R; FLINT, K M; VANDENBERG, J D (1992) Dissemination of bacteria antagonistic to Erwinia amylovora by honey bees. Plant Disease 76(10): 1052-1056. ********************** Meetings coming up ********************** Black Bee Symposium 1995 8-10 September 1995, in Norway This conference will focus on conserving the European black bee. Registration details are available from the organizers: Flekkefjord Landsbrukskontoret Kirkegata 52 N-4400 Flekkefjord Norway Fax: (+47) 38 32 44 56 ////////////////////////////// American Association of Stratigraphic Palynologists 28th Annual meeting 10-14 October 1995, Ottawa, Canada Details are available from: SA Jarzen AASP 28 Canadian Museum of Nature PO Box 3443, Station D Ottawa K1P 6P4 Canada E.mail: sjarzen@mus-nature.ca ////////////////////////// International Conference on bee products: properties, applications and apitherapy 26-30 March 1996, Tel Aviv, Israel Contact: Dan Knassim Ltd PO Box 57005 Tel Aviv 61570 Israel Fax: 972 3 6133341 //////////////////// 7th International Symposium on Pollination: from theory to practice 23-28 June 1996, Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada The International Commission for Plant-Bee Relationships is holding its 7th international symposium at the University of Lethbridge. The second circular will be available in October from: Ken Richards Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada Lethbridge Research Centre Lethbridge Alberta T1J 4B1 Canada E.mail: richards@abrsle.agr.ca //////////////////////////// Look out in the next B.mail for more information on IBRA's 6th International Conference on Tropical Bees; management and diversity. //////////////////////////// *************************** Bee Scientists honoured *************************** The achievements of two well known bee scientists have been recognized in the honour lists of their respective countries. Professor John Free, UK, was honoured in the Queen's Birthday Honours List with the award of Commander of St Michael and St George for services to beekeeping worldwide. Professor Free has a long and distinguished career in both pure and applied research on honey bees. Dr Peter Molan of the University of Waikato, New Zealand, has been awarded an MBE in that country's June honour's list for services to the honey industry. For many years he has worked on the antibiotic properties of honey and wrote an extensive review on this subject for Bee World in 1992. (Available as a reprint from IBRA, price #4.00 plus postage and packing). Return address: E.mail: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk Fax: (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone: (+44) 1222-372409 Snailmail: 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 11:00:11 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/08/02 11:11 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re[2]: Quarantined hives W. G. Miller wrote, in part: > Now for the good news: AFB contaminated equipment can be decontaminated. > In Maryland, the Dept. of Agriculture has an Ethylene Dioxide (ETO) > chamber, whichs kills AFB spores and makes the equipment useful again (drawn > combs and all). The fee charged is a small fraction of the equipment > replacement cost. I have used decontaminated equipment successfully. > Hopefully Florida has such a chamber (if not, you should lobby the state > Dept. of Agriculture. You can tell them it will make the State some money > (and beekeepers will be glad to pay it). Is there a legal/regulatory problem with lugging foulbrood-contaminated equipment across the Maryland state line from Pennsylvania or Delaware to use the ETO chamber in Maryland? Also, where is this chamber located, and how does one arrange to use it? I haven't had the problem yet, but it pays to know about these resources. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 08:40:03 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: sweat and gloves hi there, gotta throw my 2C in about all this. i have a pair of white cotton gloves, thick, which i use when working on the hives. up to yesterday, they served me well. they have a blue border, about 2 inches wide at the wrist end, and i've always noticed they go for it and sting it, but it's so thick that they can't get thru. however, being persistant little devils, they finally got under it. plus, with all the sting phermones on the blue, they "ganged up" on it. quite interesting. i have noticed that they leave the blue band alone for a while, until one of them gets angry, and then the whole lot go for it. not sure if my sweat on it has built up by then or what, but who knows. didn't use smoke last night - was going to do a simple manipulation that turned out to be lengthy. a side benefit tho - i can verify that bee venom is good for arthritic joints. much much less pain after only 2 stings. john ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 08:34:20 -7000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Larry Selman Organization: L.H. Selman Ltd. Subject: Bee cool I am interested in the newly advertised product called bee cool. It is a fan run on solar power that cools the hive and supers and also reduces fanning by the bees thus giving them more time to produce honey. Can any one comment on this device? Marti Selman (lselman@picosof.com) (new beekeeper) +-+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+-+ lselman@picosof.com International Paperweight Society home page: http://www.armory.com/~larry/ips.html 761 Chestnut Street, Santa Cruz, CA 95060 408 427-1177 Fax 408 427-0111 (AA6MV) +-+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+-+ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 08:52:51 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: Bee cool re: bee cool. take a good look at the advertising picture. the bottom super is UPSIDE DOWN!!! not a bee in sight! at 149.95 per, you could make a few small sticks to prop up the top cover and do effectively the same thing, removing them when the weather gets cooler. bees have been fanning for thousands of years, and for a lot less money. john ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 10:35:09 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: ETO treatment In-Reply-To: On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, John E III Taylor wrote: > > replacement cost. I have used decontaminated equipment successfully. > > Hopefully Florida has such a chamber (if not, you should lobby the state > > Dept. of Agriculture. You can tell them it will make the State some money > > (and beekeepers will be glad to pay it). We had a large and costly ETO chamber here in Alberta many years ago and even before that I lugged some purchased boxes to Manitoba to use theirs. Frankly I found that it doesn't work because the only equipment that can be decontaminated is equipment with no honey or pollen. Additionally, ETO is a highly reactive substance which is not approved for contact with honey because of the potentially numerous toxic byproducts. Consequently, we in Alberta sold our $250,000 chamber years ago -- and last I heard, it was used to deal sucessfully with a moth infestation in a museum. This resulted in good press for beekeepers, but as far as I know, it was cut up for scrap. As for the treated equipment, it broke down again immediately with AFB. It was only then that I learned how to properly use TM and since then we seldom see any AFB. Thar same equipment is still in use some 15 years later and never breaks down, in spite of the fact that we medicate only for a few months in the spring and again once (if we remember) in the fall. FWIW Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 13:51:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike High Subject: Re: Bee cool I agree w/ John,if it aint broke,dont fix it!Also I would be worried about the bees getting caught in the fan(Granted I have not seen this advertisment,this may be impossible)or disliking the noise/vibrations.My own personal maxim is old reliable K.I.S.S. 2 cents worth for free, Mike High ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 10:58:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re: ETO treatment As I recall, Ethylene oxide fumigation has been demonstrated to be an effective way to decontaminate AFB infected equipment, if the treatment is done thoroughly. The temperature, pressure and concentration of gas are important, and have not always been well controlled in the field units used for bee equipment. There are problems with stored pollen (it is not nutritious to bees after fumigation) and honey (it can contain ethylene glycol). Like gamma radiation sterilization, although the spores are killed, the scale remains, and tests of the scale will still indicate B. larvae spores. There are even greater concerns about operator exposure (this even applies to the more controlled chambers used for hospital equipment sterilization. As a result, ETO is not registered for use against AFB in Canada. I was surprised to hear that it is approved in Maryland (or is it just used?). Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 11:11:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Re Capped vs ripe The recent discussion reminds me of research done by Dr Basil Furgala, with pollen traps. He found that hives with pollen traps capped their honey at a higher moisture content than hives without. When I asked him why the bees' mechanism for capping only "ripe" honey was not working, he said that the capping process is not directly driven by moisture content. There is apparently more involved, including the rate at which honey is being brought into the hive. So although "capped" is usually associated with "ripe" = less than 17 % moisture or so, sometimes the 2 effects are separated, ie ripe honey (15 % or less moisture) left uncapped, or high moisture honey (19 + %) being capped. I suppose the bees requirements for storing honey are not as rigorous as some would like to imagine. Regarding the donation of the half comb cassettes for sale: perhaps one could consider a sale of them to someone who will market them carefully, then you could donate the proceeds. I know it reduces the yield by the cost of marketing, but I can imagine some "once premium" comb honey being rendered worthless by inexperienced handling. Honey will essentially not granulate when frozen (deep freeze), but will granulate readily if stored only "cool" (slightly less than 50 F., 10 C) Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 15:36:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Re[2]: Quarantined hives John Taylor wished to know if Maryland would accept out-of-state AFB contaminated equipment for its ETO decontamination chamber. Hold that thought. The appropriate people are out of town at EAS this week, but I will be able to ask them next week, and will post an answer then. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 15:36:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: ETO treatment Kerry Clark wonders about the Maryland legality of ETO for sterilzing AFB-contaminated equipment. Since the agency doing the work is the Maryland Department of Agriculture (and they own the chamber), I would consider it highly unlikely that they are doing anything illegal under U.S. or state law. Everyone I know (including myself) who has used the chamber has reported good results. If there is general interest in the process, I will try to get our State's Chief Apiary Inspector to write a few words on ETO fumigation, which I can then post. But, according to Kerry, it appears that what our Canadian friends need to know about the ETO process is that it's illegal for them. Be thankful you have Formic Acid for mites (we don't). W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD Gathersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 20:27:21 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diane Cooper Subject: Re: Mead Maker's Page In-Reply-To: For those interested, there is some interesting information at http://www.atd.ucar.edu/rdp/gfc/mead/mead.html Diane Cooper ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 21:07:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carl Mueller Subject: Re: Bee cool Give me a break, Would someone pay $150.00 per hive to cool their bees? Why not do what I have done for a few cents. I cut an 8x6 inch hole in the inner cover and placed metal screen on both sides. The bees propalais if it gets too cool and remove it when hot. I leave the top covers cocked at an angle so that water will run off away from the landing board. It is ideal here in south Florida. In winter I place the covers into their original positions. Double screening helps with moths. With one layer of screen the small moths readly crawl into the hive, should eggs be laid on the screen. With two layers the stupid things get inbetween layers and feed on propalis and are soon trapped forever. Carl Mueller Email: cmueller@emi.net West Palm Beach, Florida USA " Love is where you find it. Seek and Ye shall find it." " Knock and it will be opened onto you. Ask and it will be given you." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 00:18:59 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Accidental Beekeeper > From: Collin Forbes > First I need to identify the bees. My mother thinks that they are > honeybees. They are currently living in comb against bare dirt in a > shallow depression under a board. The comb is about 6 inches in diameter. > I think they may be bombus rather than apis, after hearing stories of > honeybees setting up housekeeping in high places like trees, chimneys, > attics, and walls, and bumblebees in heaps of lawn debris. I don't think > I can tell a honeybee from a bumblebee without a side-by-side comparison, > however. Be *VERY* careful, they may also be Yellowjackets which are *VERY* nasty things. They sting, repeatedly, and bite! Yellowjackets look like very shiney bees and will hang out by soda cans and other sources of free food, they'll also rip pieces of meat off your plate. Bombus are big, lumbering, fuzzy things. You've probably got the right idea calling the extension agent, if they're not available or knowledgable about bees (the one around here doesn't consider them very agricultural related, go fig'er!) then call the police and ask them for the number of the person they call when someone reports a swarm. There's got to be a beekeeper that has cozied up to the local police to get free bees...8-} I hope they're honey bees, good luck and if you've got bears around where you're moving them...build a bear fence or you'll end up like me, I'm back to being a bee equipment keeper! *smirk* ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 14:02:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Sweat, watches, jewelry >From: "Scott A. Binkley" >Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 20:41:53 -0400 >Subject: Re: Sweat, watches, jewelry >>I wonder after reading new comments if the bees are going for sweat >>because it is salty? The resultant stings we get are because we trap >>them on various parts of ourselves and all these parts would have >>surface salt due to being sweaty - sorry but I assume we all sweat! >If the bees were going for the salt, why would they sting you?? I have watched them go for that natural salt or perspiration and they bite with their mandibles. The initial response is very similar to a bee sting. (It feels like they are stinging you when it happens in a tender spot.) I am sure most people would react the same and try to remove the bee and actually get stung in the process. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Bienenzuechter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 23:42:41 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mat Werner Subject: yellow jackets Hello, Anyone there who'd like to offer c some advice on a pest control issue? I have yellow jackets nesting in the wall of my house, behind the junction box where electricity enters my house. It is a very active nest, and I want to destroy it, especially since we are in the process of painting the house right now and have to work in that area. I want an effective, least-toxic method to kill them. I talked to the folks at BIRC who suggested an aerosol mix of silica gel and pyrethrins. Any suggestions, useful experiences? I am not licensed as a PCO...where can I purchase a pyrethrin product? How responsive are yellow jackets to disturbance if I do this at night when the cool fog is in? Matt Werner Santa Cruz, CA werner@zzyx.ucsc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 03:50:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vicki Chalk Subject: Re: Box sizes In a message dated 95-07-27 12:37:11 EDT, you write: > > I use two deep boxes for the brood, and westerns and shallows for the supers. Being a woman, I tend to use more shallows for supers because they are easier for me to lift. A deep box full of honey is too heavy for me to lift without leveraging it against my body -- which can cause stings if I get a bee caught between the box and me. Hope this is helpful. Vicki Chalk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 11:07:07 GMT+2 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Allsopp Organization: N.I.P.B VREDENBURG Subject: Adam Finkelstein Hi all Can someone please give me Adam's mailing address - I need a bit of help in changing my BEE-L mailing address. Thanks Mike Mike Allsopp Honeybee Research Unit Tel: 021-8874690 Plant Protection Research Institute Fax: 021-8833285 Agricultural Research Council Internet: vredma@plant3.agric.za Private Bag X5017, Stellenbosch, Pmail: plant3/vredma 7599, South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 14:50:28 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Box sizes On Thu, 27 Jul 1995 Bill Miller started a interesting discussion about box sizes Interesting answers too but for we continentals there is a lack of sizes: Ok I guess ... Jumbo=~ 31 cm deep with 12 frames? Deep =~ 31 cm deep with 10 frames? = Dadant brood frame Standard =~ 24 cm deep with 10 frames? = Langstroth unique frame 6 5/8 = clear Shallow =~ 10 cm deep with 10 frames ? It's right ? Itsn't ? I'm using 2 kind of hives with different uses (I only have Buckfast bees since 1980, brown between 1953 to '80) Honey production hive : It's what we name a "Dadant 12 frames hive" Today I have 13 such living hives. composition ... one bottom board with 8 cm spacing behind some laths one brood box (interior) 45x45x31 cm with 12 frames one queen excluder one to four 6 5/8 supers with 11 frames Why ? The brood box is quite convenient to the 10-12 brood frames of a buckfast queen. During the spring and summer time : at least one super must always be in place : when reaping, you must install an empty super. In the winter : this brood box is quite convenient for a 20-25 kg of feeding and an adapted unique brood nest. The bottom board is an expander place to the bees, mainly the foragers. Only problem : be careful to catch the queen (not too smoke). And do you must catch the queen from a production hive during the season? The supers are ... total full load : 30-31 kg (too) much for my back ! But the shallows are too small for a buckfast bee and a medium crop : 1-2 super/week when the honey is flowing ! ======= Queen production hives : It's what we name a "WBC 10 frames hive" Today I have 34 such living hives. WBC because the frame is "about" the British Standard Frame and the box is about the W. Broughton Carr box. In fact, this box has the inner sizes of the WBC hive 37.5x37.5 cm and the height of the standard Langstroth box (23.8 cm). I use one box for one queen (from 4 to 10 frames) ===== Formerly, I used only the last boxes for both the use (honey and queen). Honey production brood on 2 boxes and the supers at the top (the volume of this box is quite the same as the super volume) : 2 problems ... When you have 4 supers (of 25-30 kg) on 2 boxes, you must have a ladder to manipulate them. More important : the spring development is clearly slower in the 2 boxes than in the one box brood chamber. The reason is not clear and some hypothesis are allowed. Seems it's difficult to the queen to go down (her heavy abdomen is troubling her when passing the hole between the 2 boxes) and not when she is going up. She remains thus in the upper box. The result is a beautiful half ball brood. The problem diminishes with the bees increasing number and the wax bridges between the 2 boxes. This problem is not encountered in a jumbo box with enough super : the queen never is lacking of laying place. More important yet ! Don't use old comb and/or brood chambers comb to collect the honey : actually they are contaminated with fluvalinate, the apistan active product. I have some references speaking about fluvalinate (photo)degradation products in the honey (J. Chromatogr. 655 (1993) 95-99 and J. Agric. Food Chem. 32 (1984) 1134-1138). Thus the frames don't can(must) pass from brood to super and inversely. I use thus a system which each frame has an only use : brood chamber for production queens, super frames for the honey (I always use rod queen excluder) and brood chamber for reserve queens. Hope this helps ! Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 07:13:58 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Box sizes In-Reply-To: <95080314502809@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be> On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Jean-Marie Van Dyck wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jul 1995 Bill Miller started a > interesting discussion about box sizes > > Interesting answers too but for we continentals there is a lack of sizes: > Ok I guess ... > Jumbo=~ 31 cm deep with 12 frames? My jumbos were 16 (or 16 1/2) inches wide by 20 inches long by 11 1/2 inches deep. They took 10 frames. > Deep =~ 31 cm deep with 10 frames? = Dadant brood frame > Standard =~ 24 cm deep with 10 frames? = Langstroth unique frame > 6 5/8 = clear Our standards are 16 (or 16 1/2 in Canada) inches by 20 inches by 9 1/2 inches deep and take ten frames or 9 if spacers are used. The same boxes have the frames spaced to take 8 per box for honey supers. > Shallow =~ 10 cm deep with 10 frames ? It's right ? Itsn't ? Shallows over here are 4 1/2 inches deep with the other dimensions being the same, as I recall. Mediums are 6 5/8 inches deep. > > More important : the spring development is clearly slower in the 2 > boxes than in the one box brood chamber. The reason is not clear and > some hypothesis are allowed. Seems it's difficult to the queen to go > down (her heavy abdomen is troubling her when passing the hole between > the 2 boxes) and not when she is going up. She remains thus in the > upper box. The result is a beautiful half ball brood. The problem > diminishes with the bees increasing number and the wax bridges between > the 2 boxes. I've cut down on how much I scrape ladder comb. If the bees build it, they want it. We just remove enough to allow manipulation. > This problem is not encountered in a jumbo box with enough > super : the queen never is lacking of laying place. That's the truth. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 10:07:34 -0500 Reply-To: godave@infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Johnson Organization: mailhost.nr.infi.net Subject: fly away queen Yesterday, when requeening a colony, I prepared to dispatch the old queen in the traditional manner (squash). Unfortunately, as I turned away from the hive, the queen escaped my gloved hand. I think it may have been injured at least, but I could not find it on the ground or in the immediate vicinity of the open hive. I went ahead anyway and introduced a new queen in its Benton mailing cage without attendants. If the old queen reenters the hive, I understand she will rightfully re-ascend her accustomed throne and the new queen will be dispatched by the colony as an intruder. My question: What are the chances the old queen found the colony and entered? For about one hour afterward the bees all hung around the entrance, but then appeared content and undisturbed. It is a big colony and active today. Of course, I'll check in several days to see what happened, but I am curious about other's experiences with similiar situations. Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 17:51:08 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: HoneyPopRecipe On tu 1 aug 95 1807 DST Ian the mede maker gave the BEE-L list a honey pop recipe Hello Ian ! This is a world-wide list and sorry but we, continentals, have some things to clarify (I apologize ) > 6# light honey (2 qts) >> it is obviously 6 pounds ok, but (2 qts??) > (I use black locust) >> what is black locust ? a kind of flower ? > rinsed in a Campden solution (4 tabs to pint water) >> is that a chlorine (hypochlorite) solution? Thanks for any explanation to try rapidly this natural refreshing drink ! Jean-Marie Long. : 4deg 56' E - Lat. : 50deg 30' N - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km At Namur in Belgium This => C'est ma facon de parler ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 15:20:32 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Einhorn Subject: reusing barrels I have a very dumb question. Is it acceptable to reuse apple juice barrels for honey? What are people paying for barrels and are there preferred suppliers for barrels? Dave Einhorn deinhorn@isnov.ab.umd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 15:49:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: reusing barrels >I have a very dumb question. Is it acceptable to reuse apple juice >barrels for honey? What are people paying for barrels and are there >preferred suppliers for barrels? Here in Florida there is an $8.00 deposit on the barrels when you buy corn syrup, which you can in turn use for honey. God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 16:08:16 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/08/03 16:20 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re: reusing barrels Dave Einhorn wrote: > I have a very dumb question. Is it acceptable to reuse apple juice > barrels for honey? What are people paying for barrels and are there > preferred suppliers for barrels? I've not had the problem of storing that much honey yet, but if you use an apple-juice barrel, I'd certainly think you'd want to let it stand overnight with a dilute hypochlorite solution (e.g. Chlorox(tm) bleach) to get rid of the apple odor, then rinse it thoroughly. That should render it suitable for honey storage. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 14:34:56 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: reusing barrels In-Reply-To: <284DAFA288F@isnov.ab.umd.edu> On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, Dave Einhorn wrote: > Is it acceptable to reuse apple juice > barrels for honey? Juice drums are popular with beekeepers. No special cleaning is required. They are usually lighter weight - about 42 pounds compared with real honey drums at 50 pounds or so, and will not stand as much dropping and banging around. When the honey becomes solid, though, the drums have good strength. Any drum may burst like a bag of water if dropped when full of liquid honey, so be careful. Because juice drums are 45 gallon Imperial (55 gallon US or 110 litres) they are a standard size andf contain typically 630 pounds when filled to within 2 inches of the top. Don't overfill. Because they are open-top type (usually) they are easy to inspect for junk, damage etc. and to empty and clean. The lid should be closed with a seal. Closed top types are acceptable with many buyers, but not as easy to inspect, clean or empty and should be avoided if the other are available. > What are people paying for barrels and are there > preferred suppliers for barrels? Orchards or juice packers in Washington State have huge supplies at prices from $5 and up. Your yellow pages should list drums and reputable reconditioners will sell you very nice drums for $10 and up in any city. New drums run about $35 and up. But remember - Drums previously used for purposes other than food are a definite no-no. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 14:53:52 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kieren Sunderland Subject: minimum sustainable hive size & cross pollination Hi, I am a beekeeper from Dubbo in New South Wales, Australia. I am wondering if anyone can advise me if they have heared or readed of any reasearch that has looked at the minimum area a hive of apis needs to sustain the hive from year to year. Also the foraging habits of apis with regards to them cross pollinating flora. I ask this as we are having trouble with environmentalist saying that feral bees are taking nesting sites of native animals and are causing hybridisation of native flora. This has been a reason for the exclusion of beekeepers from National Parks in New South Wales. Hope this works, this is my first attempt. Regards Kieren Sunderland Dubbo New South Wales kierlin@mail.enternet.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 08:00:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James D. Satterfield" Subject: Varroa and observation hive I made an observation hive earlier in the year and installed one top bar from my modified Tanzanian top bar hives. The bees came up well and have sealed honey in all areas except about 1/4 of the comb near the entrance where brood is reared. I've been very happy with the result...I enjoy just watching bee behavior. I've also been using it to watch for Varroa. Earlier this week I saw the first Varroa in the observation hive. I could see mites on several bees. I had some old Apistan strips that had been left open in my tool shed (dark inside except when the doors are open), strips which had been in two Langstroth colonies from about mid February until the end of March approximately. I took one strip, trimmed about 3/8 inch off the side so that it would slip through the notch I put in the center of the top bars, and inserted it in the observation hive. The next morning, about 12 hours later, there were more that 60 mites dead on the floor of the observation hive; moreover, I looked at the bees closely and I didn't see a single mite on a bee. I realize that this is a single observation, not a well-constructed experiment, and there are many variables. Temperature for example...in my location about 40 miles N of Atlanta, USA we've had many days in excess of 90 to 95F, and in the greenhouse where I have the observation hive the temperature has been very high during the day. Regardless, the following seems to be clear to me: 1. The Apistan strips can maintain activity longer than I have been led to believe. 2. Mite kill can be very rapid and very complete...far faster than I thought possible. I would enjoy any comments that you might have on my observations. Do my observations suggest any change in treatment protocol from what has been recommended on the Apistan box? Have you treated Varroa in observations hives? What did you see resulting? Cordially yours, Jim ----------------------------------------------------- | James D.Satterfield | jsatt@gsu.edu or | | P.O. Box 2243 | biojdsx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu | | Decatur, GA 30031 USA | Telephone 404 378-8917 | ----------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 08:40:07 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Lars A. Lutton" Subject: honey house Ohio University Electronic Communication Date: 04-Aug-1995 08:30am EST To: Remote Addressee ( _MX%"BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU" ) From: Lars Lutton Dept: Instructional Media Services LUTTON Tel No: (614)593-2669 Subject: honey house I've been toying with the idea of a small community extracting facility. There's a lot of talk about sustainable resource agriculture and related buzzwords in this economically distressed area. Would anyone have plans or a model for a small facility or any experiances in operating same? Please E-mail/ lutton@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu Received: 04-Aug-1995 08:40am ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 08:41:44 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: Varroa and observation hive Jim , What you describe are pretty promising results . The Apistan strips should indeed have a prolonged life span if stored cool and dark . Also these results should indicate to you that , with high ambient temp., you can reduce the the amount of strips recommended by the product data sheet . By no means dose this mean you can increase dosage in lower temps. , however , as with all medications or treatments for any animal or insect , the dosage can be reduced by appling some logic . Chao , Marion L.Bristow Agriculture Sciences Campus Universidad de Concepcion , Campus Chillan Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 15:55:27 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Bee stings Allen Dick wrote: > On Mon, 31 Jul 1995, Keith Hooker wrote: > > > As an observation, I have come to the conclusion that bees do not > > like sweat especially from under my wrist watch strap and therefore > > remove it and wash my wrist before working bees. > > My understanding is that the contrast of the strap or band is apparent to > bees vision and that they are attracted to sting at such places. That would explain why I *always* get stung on the ankles if I wear black socks with my white bee suit! I don't wear a watch because I think bees sometimes get trapped by the strap whilst I work. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 16:02:32 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: When is comb honey ready to eat? Allen Dick wrote: > On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Frederick Chase wrote: > > > If it is not yet ready for eating I suppose I should not store it in > > my freezer, should I? > > Again, why not? Freezing suspends all processes - ageing, granulating, > maturing. It is the best way to extend the life of comb honey. But you don't have to, and you could get a very full freezer if you do ;-) Do seal liquid honey away from the air though, or it will absorb water and start to ferment. Granulated comb honey can be a bit of a nuisance, although I have seen it deliberately left to granulate, whereupon it's been cut and packaged and then melted again by *carefully* applied heat. The comb doesn't collapse if the wax doesn't actually melt and it's shape is supported in the cut-comb box. Regards, -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 13:38:05 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diane Cooper Subject: Re: Honey and Bee History query In-Reply-To: Hi All, Recently on another list, there was a reference to toxic bees used in battle during ancient times. There also seems to have been some interest in toxic honey or honey from toxic sources. I have not yet found the logs for that particular list (ancien-l) but thought what better place to toss out the query than here in the hopes that someone might have happened on related or similarly interesting information. Responses in private are fine but others might be interested too. Diane Cooper ag151@ccn.cs.dal.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 16:42:07 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Bee cool Carl Mueller wrote: > Give me a break, > > Would someone pay $150.00 per hive to cool their bees? Why not do what > I have done for a few cents. For that sort of money, my bees want full air conditioning and a jaccuzzi :-) -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 16:59:04 GMT Reply-To: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: HoneyPopRecipe Jean-Marie Vandyk wrote: > > Hello Ian ! This is a world-wide list and sorry but we, continentals, > have some things to clarify (I apologize ) > > > > 6# light honey (2 qts) >> it is obviously 6 pounds ok, but (2 qts??) > > (I use black locust) >> what is black locust ? a kind of flower ? > > rinsed in a Campden solution (4 tabs to pint water) > >> is that a chlorine (hypochlorite) solution? I hope Ian will forgive me, I was already working this out and know the other answers. Two US quarts is 64 fluid oz (1.6 UK quarts) or 1.8 litres (liters) Yes. (that carob comes from? - the 'locusts' eaten in the bible) Yes. -- Gordon Scott Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk 100332,3310 on CompuServe Newsletter Beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ditto Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor. Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 16:55:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Fell Subject: Re: Honey and Bee History query Diane: In reference to your query I can offer a few comments since we have recently done some work with honey contaning naturally toxic compounds. First, the reference to toxic bees may be somewhat misleading, unless they are referring to the sting. However, honey bees have been used in warfare, dating as far back as Roman times. There are for example, references to the Romans loading bee hives on catapults and firing them at their enemies. Other records can be found from the Middle Ages, where various armies threw bee hives at their attackers - especially off of castle walls, and on up through World War I and Vietnam. A good reference for for this topic is "Insects in Warfare" by John Ambrose (published in Army 24(12):33-38.) With regard to toxic honey, there is also a long history. One of the earliest references comes from the writings of the Greek Xenophon (approx. 400 B.C.) who described the effects of soldiers eating a toxic honey. The incident occurred in what is now Turkey. The soldiers were returning to Greece from a campaign in the Persian Empire, encountered the hives and robbed them of their honey. Xenophon indicated that the soldiers who consumed the honey lost thier senses, and were inflicted with "vomiting and purging". A later reference indicates that the honey of that region was also used against soldiers of the Roman army under Pompey. The Heptakometes left jars of the honey along the roadside as a "tribute" to some of the advancing army. The soldiers who ate the honey lost their senses and were easily defeated by the Heptakometes. The source of this toxic honey in the Middle East is probably Rhondodendron ponticum, although R. luteum could also be a source. A good reference to the toxic honey of this region is Sutlupinar et al. 1993. Poisoning by toxic honey in Turkey, Arch. Toxicol. 67:148-150. There are several references to toxic honeys in the US. The earliest record of which I am aware dates back to Philadelphia in 1790, when a child died from eating honey. There are also references from the Civil War and from the 1940's and 1960's. The most recent report is the one we found here in Virginia. A beekeeper became violently ill after comsuming some honey from his hives and ended up spending 6 days in the local hospital. We were contacted about the possibility of the honey causing the problems and subsequently analyzed the honey. We found two grayanotoxins (primarily nerve toxins that lead to a prolonged depolarization of the nerve) in the honey in sufficient levels to cause very serious medical problems. Based on the time of year, the area in which the honey was made, and the toxins, we believe the source was Kalmia latifolia (Mountain laurel). This type of toxic honey is not common but seems to be reported once about every 20 or 30 years. There are a number of other plants that produce nectars with various toxins. Some of these include Yellow jassamine, tansy ragwort, and Egyptian henbane. If you would like more infromation on plants and specific toxins, please let me know. Hope this answers some of your questions. Rick Fell > >Recently on another list, there was a reference to toxic bees used in >battle during ancient times. There also seems to have been some interest >in toxic honey or honey from toxic sources. I have not yet found the logs >for that particular list (ancien-l) but thought what better place to toss out >the query than here in the hopes that someone might have happened on >related or similarly interesting information. > >Responses in private are fine but others might be interested too. > >Diane Cooper >ag151@ccn.cs.dal.ca Rick Fell Associate Professor Department of Entomology Virginia Tech Blacksburg,Virginia 24061 Tel. (540) 231-7207 e-mail: rfell@vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 18:53:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Worrell Subject: Re: Need Advice Starting Library Thanks to all for their imput in starting an association library. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 19:39:30 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Patrick M O'Hearn <73203.610@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Cutsie Jars Hello All, I am suddenly in need of "cutsie" glassware, i.e. the hexagonal jars, little 4oz salt and pepper shakers shaped like mason jars, etc. rather than my traditional queenline jars. If anyone out there can cite me a good bulk supplier of gift type jars I would appreciate an e-mail. A source west of the Mississippi river would be preferable to save on shipping. A direct reply is ok or, if the list thinks it appropriate, this might serve to start a general discussion on glass and plastic container sources... after all, excepting you die hard pollinators, honey sales pay the freight and allows most of us to keep this up from year to year. thanks Patrick M. O'Hearn Bears Choice Honey Aztec NM 73203.610@compuserve.com "Sometimes you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" R. Hunter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 12:30:31 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diane Cooper Subject: Re: Honey and Bee History query In-Reply-To: Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 12:31:35 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diane Cooper Subject: Re: Honey and Bee History query In-Reply-To: Rick, Thanks for the information - very interesting. Diane Cooper ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 22:51:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faranak Ghahramanpour Subject: ApiMondia 95 Hi everyone As an iranian beekeper i will paricipate in ApiMondia congress in Lausanne, Switzerland held from 15 to 19 August. Is anybody else coming ? Will be happy to meet them. Please inform me on how we should meet ? Dr E.Rashidzadeh Economist ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 22:55:17 GMT Reply-To: allister@elms.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Allister C. Guy" Subject: Amnesia Hello everyone, When talking to a non beekeeper, who lived in Africa for some years, I learned about a practice of subduing the bees with ammonium nitrate crystals. Some crystals are added to the smoker and laughing gas is produced which calms the colony also bees that have been so treated loose their memory and can be relocated short distances without loss of flying bees. In Curiosities of Beekeeping by L.R.Croft he mentions various anaesthetics including ammonium nitrate but this is the only reference that I can find. Has anyone had experience or knowledge of the use of this chemical and the effects on the bees? As I live in Bathgate, Scotland ( Birth place of James Simpson, Father of Anaesthetics) I would be interested to hear of anyone's experiences with subduing bees and their memory loss. Best wishes, Allister C. Guy. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 19:29:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: subduing bees and memory loss I have read papers in which memory loss is not a good thing - the bees stop foraging, or forget what to forage for, or when anesthetized they later revived, went back into the hive and tossed out the brood. I gather they didn't do any of these things in Africa with the ammonium nitrate? Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 22:02:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: anesthesia continued My last post was pretty vague. Here is more - from articles on file: A 1979 paper by Pomeroy and Plowright states that worker bumblebees that were knocked out with CO2 later ejected larvae from their nest. The bees seemed to have stopped doing this after about a day. This is bumblebees, not honeybees. The other article, by Ribbands in 1950, is on honeybees that were anesthetized with nitrogen gas, CO2, or chloroform. Apparently the bees treated with N2 or CO2 thereafter stopped collecting pollen, although they had been before and it was available, and collected only nectar. The chloroform bees didn't seemed to be changed. Comments: 1. The fact that they changed from pollen to nectar might not necessarily be bad, from the beekeeper's point of view. 2. Neither of these papers studied ammonium nitrate, the chemical asked about by the person who posted saying it was used in Africa. 3. Both papers are pretty old. Surely there must have been more recent work done on calming down honeybee hives. Does anyone know more? I am wondering mostly about bumblebees myself, but honeybees too. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 20:31:33 -0700 Reply-To: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Conrad A. Berube" Subject: War and bees >Subject: Re: Honey and Bee History query >Recently on another list, there was a reference to toxic bees >used in battle during ancient times. There also seems to have >been some interest in toxic honey or honey from toxic sources... THERE'S ALREADY BEEN SOME COMMENTS ABOUT THE USE OF TOXIC HONEY IN WARFARE- - HERE'S SOME RELATED MATERIAL FROM A BOOK I'M WRITING ABOUT BEES IN CULTURE AND FOLKLORE. THE ENDNOTE NUMBERS DIDN'T COME THROUGH WHEN I CONVERTED THIS TO ASCII FORMAT BUT WHAT THE HECK. I'D LIKE TO HEAR OF ANY OTHER SIMILAR INFO OF WHICH YOU MAY BE AWARE. bee well, - Conrad Berube " ` ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT " ` 1326 Franklin Terrace _- -_`-_|'\ /` Victoria, B.C. _/ / / -' `~()() V8S 1C7 \_\ _ /\-._/\/ (604)480-0223; fax (604)656-8922 / | | email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca '` ^ ^ WAR AND BEES-- military applications of apiculture ...The locals (where toxic honey is produced) would have been well aware that honey produced during certain times of the year was naturally poisonous. Honey yielded from the nectar of such plants as _Rhododendron ponticum_ and _Azalea pontica_ contain alkaloids that are toxic to humans but harmless to bees. After the offending blooms have stopped flowering, beekeepers in areas where these plants are common (such as the area of present-day Turkey where this incident occurred) routinely remove this toxic honey so it doesn't contaminate subsequently produced stores. The poisonous honey is then fed back to the bees during time of dearth-- if it hasn't been used first for national defense*. (South and Central American Indians used similar honey for ceremonial purges and perhaps for "vision questing". Deaths have been reported in New Zealand which were attributed to the consumption of honey originating from the "wharangi bush", _Melicope ternata_*. Another New Zealand plant, _Coriaria arborea_, produces nectar that is safe for incorporation into honey but furnishes toxic honeydew* . Other locales where toxic honey has been reported on occasion include Mexico , Hungary , Brazil and the southwest U.S. *.) Mead, an intoxicating drink made from a honey base has also been used to gain tactical military advantage. In 946, the Slavic St. Olga, on the occasion of her son's funeral, provided limitless quantities of mead. She invited her enemies only, who, presumably, had somehow been instrumental in the death of her child, and five thousand inebriated `mourners' were slain in their stupor by Olga's allies. Similarly, in 1489, 10,000 Tatars were dispatched by Russians whom the Turkish invaders had been pursuing. The Russians left mead behind in their flight and returned after sufficient time for the Tatars to drink themselves into a daze*. Of course, there are plenty of instances when bees have been used in the more obvious way, as "meat-seeking missiles"... The Romans, for instance, instead of employing the subterfuge of poisoned honey simply sent beehives catapulting into the ranks or fortifications of their enemies. The unleashed fury of the bees, enraged when their hives were smashed, is credited with being the decisive stroke of more than one battle. Turn-about being fair play the Dacians, of what is today Romania, defeated the armored legions of Rome, at least temporarily, with their own salvo of skeps*. Bees have even been used in naval battle: in the Mediterranean Sea the crew of a small corsair vessel, only about fifty men, boarded and captured a much larger galley manned by 500 soldiers- - after the pirates cast beehives from the masts of their ship down onto the crew of the galley, who had intended to apprehend _them_*. Military application of bees has continued into modern times. In a novel approach practiced by the Tiv of Nigeria, bees were kept in special horns also containing powdered poisons. Thus dusted to increase the efficacy of their own venom the bees would be released in the heat of battle to attack the Tiv's enemies (it is not, however, recorded why the bees do not succumb to the poison themselves or how the bees distinguish between the Tiv and their foes*). During the American Civil War, Union troops were almost routed when southern artillery shattered a row of hives in a yard through which they were passing. Bees pitched at the enemy or booby trapped to topple over with trip wires were used to the advantage of both sides during skirmishes in World War I*. There are even some reports that the Viet Cong used sabotaged _Apis dorsata _nests against Americans during the Vietnam war*. And, in a footnote to the war in South-East Asia, what was presumed to be a biological warfare agent turned out, in fact, to be the `yellow rain' produced by _Apis dorsata_ during massed defecation flights*. The New World, too, has its own version of a tale of bees in warfare. The ancient Quiche Maya are said to have repelled a siege by posting mannequins along the parapets of their city. The sham warriors were outfitted with cloaks, spears and shields, even war bonnets for the gourds that served them as heads-- and which were full of wasps, horseflies and bees (although these would have been the native "stingless" bees-- some species of which are equipped with acidic mandibular secretions capable of raising nasty welts when one is bitten-- rather than _A. mellifera_) that the defenders had collected. When the advancing army was close to the battlements the gourds were smashed and the assailants were overcome by the stinging insects*. __ References: Ambrose, J.T. 1973. "Bees and Warfare." _Gleanings in Bee Culture_. pp. 343-346; Georghiou, G.P. 1980. "Ancient Beekeeping." _The ABC and XYZ of Bee Culture. _ (Root, A.I., editors.) A.I. Root Company. Medina, Ohio. pp. 17-21 Root, A.I. 1980. _ibid._ Espina-Prez, D. and G.S. Ordetx-Ros. 1983. _Flora Ap!cola Tropical._ Editorial Tecnol"gico de Costa Rica, Cartago, Costa Rica. p. 35 Crane, E. 1975. _Honey: a Comprehensive Survey._ Bee Research Association. William Heinemann Ltd., London. p. 204 Crane, 1975. _ibid._; Espina-Prez and Ordetx-Ros, 1983. _ibid._ Krochmal, C. and A. Krochmal. 1982. "Beekeeping in Romania." _American Bee Journal_. Vol. 122(5), pp. 345-346 Heather, P. 1940. "Animal Beliefs." _Folklore._ Vol. 51, p. 273 Morse, R.A. 1955. "Bees Go to War." _Gleanings in Bee Culture_. pp. 585-587 Adam, L. 1985. _L'Apiculture a Travers les Ages._ Editions Gerbert. pp. 75-76 Aouade, J.A.A. 1979. "Traditional Beekeeping in Nigeria-- Editorial Summary from `Beekeeping Among the Tiv'." _Beekeeping in Rural Development: Unexploited Beekeeping Potential in the Tropics with Particular reference to the Commonwealth_. Commonwealth Secretariat and the International Bee Research Association, London. pp. 23 Ransome, H.M. 1986. _The Sacred Bee in Ancient Times and Folklore_. Bee Books New and Old. Burrowbridge, Bridgwater, England. pp. 152 Addey, M. 1984. "Honeybee Faeces-- An Explanation of `Yellow Rain'?." _Bee World_. Vol. 65(3), pp. 138-139; Mardan, M. and P.G. Kevan. 1989. "Honeybees and `Yellow Rain'." _Nature_. Vol. 341, pp. 191 Beach, F.A. 1975. "Beasts Before the Bar." _Ants, Indians, and Little Dinosaurs._ (Alan Ternes, editor.) Charles Scribner's Sons, New York. _Popul Vuh; The Mayan Book of the Dawn of Life_. 1985. (D. Tedlock, translator). Simon and Shuster Inc., New York. p. 194- 196) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 00:17:56 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George Clarkson/SC <70641.2067@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Bee stings Allen Dick wrote: > On Mon, 31 Jul 1995, Keith Hooker wrote: > > > As an observation, I have come to the conclusion that bees do not > > like sweat especially from under my wrist watch strap and therefore > > remove it and wash my wrist before working bees. > > My understanding is that the contrast of the strap or band is apparent to > bees vision and that they are attracted to sting at such places. I can believe this. I used to get stung frequently on my wrist near my *black* watchband until I quit wearing it when working with the bees. George Clarkson 70641,2067@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 00:24:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike High Subject: Re: anesthesia continued I dont know how laughing gas affects the bees,but I sure like Nitrous Oxide! MLHigh ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 18:03:56 GMT Reply-To: allister@elms.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Allister C. Guy" Subject: Re: anesthesia continued In your message dated Saturday 5, August 1995 you wrote : > My last post was pretty vague. Here is more - from > articles on file: > > A 1979 paper by Pomeroy and Plowright states that worker > bumblebees that were knocked out with CO2 later ejected > larvae from their nest. The bees seemed to have stopped doing > this after about a day. This is bumblebees, not honeybees. > > The other article, by Ribbands in 1950, is on honeybees that were > anesthetized with nitrogen gas, CO2, or chloroform. > Apparently the bees treated with N2 or CO2 thereafter stopped > collecting pollen, although they had been before and it was > available, and collected only nectar. The chloroform bees > didn't seemed to be changed. > > Comments: > 1. The fact that they changed from pollen to nectar might not > necessarily be bad, from the beekeeper's point of view. > > 2. Neither of these papers studied ammonium nitrate, the chemical > asked about by the person who posted saying it was used in Africa. > > 3. Both papers are pretty old. Surely there must have been more > recent work done on calming down honeybee hives. Does anyone > know more? I am wondering mostly about bumblebees myself, but > honeybees too. > > > > Liz Day > LDAY@indy.net > Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA > That chloroform did not cause abnormal behaviour while nitrogen gas and CO2 did may be because these two are not anaesthetics but rather are suffocants (obviously chloroform will suffocate at prolonged , high concentrations). Presumably the nitrous oxide acts as an anaesthetic rather than a suffocant since no abnormal behaviour was reported. Can someone confirm that nitrous oxide is produced when ammonium nitrate is burned in a smoker with hessian (presumably a carbon source)? - L.R.Croft " Curiosities of Beekeeping" page 16 (ISBN 0-946019-06-1). -- Allister C. Guy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 14:51:55 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Re: Fume boards In-Reply-To: <199508060029.TAA24654@indy2.indy.net> It's getting to be time to start thinking about pulling supers off. In the past I always used a porter escape or just brushed the frames beeless. Since my apiary is farther frome my home than usual I don't have the time a porter escape takes. Brushing is too tedious. I'm considering using a fume board. I'd like some advice how to use one. Is the outside temp. that important? I'm also somewhat concerned about adding another chemical to the "natural product". I look forward to all your replies. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 15:39:08 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Richard Spear Subject: Re: Fume boards > > It's getting to be time to start thinking about pulling supers > off. In the past I always used a porter escape or just brushed the > frames beeless. Since my apiary is farther frome my home than usual I > don't have the time a porter escape takes. Brushing is too tedious. > > I'm considering using a fume board. I'd like some advice how to > use one. Is the outside temp. that important? I'm also somewhat > concerned about adding another chemical to the "natural product". > > I look forward to all your replies. I've never used either ... I merely shake the bees off frame by frame and move the frames away to an empty super ... seems to work fine. Bear in mind that I'm only dealing with two hives, though. I imagine that doing one hundred hives my way would take all day! Richard ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 19:09:29 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Atkinson <74752.2665@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Hogg Half Comb Cassette Saw a demo of 1/2 comb cassette at recent EAS Conf. Need some feedback from beekeepers that have used it. Is it good as it looks, is it better than Ross Rounds and is it free from wax moth problems as inferred. I would appreciate any Feedback! Thanks! john atkinson,74752.2665@CompuServe.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 22:52:05 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Subject: Re: Hogg Half Comb Cassette > I would appreciate any >Feedback! Thanks! The bees do not like these cassettes nearly as much as the round combs. It takes a very strong honeyflow early in the year, and even then a lot of them around the edges will not be filled. The price per comb is above $1 each, far more than the material cost for the rings and covers. I do not see any of these for sale in the stores, and this indicates to me that they are not commercially successful. Mark Jensen mjensen@crl.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 08:27:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: Re: fume boards In-Reply-To: <199508070404.AAA01477@cbl.cees.edu> > Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 14:51:55 -0700 > From: Ann Dougherty > Subject: Re: Fume boards > > I'm considering using a fume board. I'd like some advice how to > use one. Is the outside temp. that important? I'm also somewhat > concerned about adding another chemical to the "natural product". Ann, I've used fume boards for several years using "Bee-Go" as the chemical. Yes, temperature and direct sun are important to volatilize the chemical to create the fumes. Some of my hives are in afternoon shade and therefore I try to remove the supers in the morning when the sun hits the top of the hives. I use 2 boards alternately: after putting on the first one I select a second hive, smoke it gently and remove the cover, determine if it is fully capped and then add the second board. By this time, the first hive has had sufficient time to drive the bees down. (understand that the procedure used between the hives was done on the first as well). In this manner the time needed for the chemical to work is used efficiently rather than standing around waiting. Sunny days, to me, are a must or you will have lots of bees still in the supers. After taking off the supers I place a piece of plywood over the supers to prevent bees from getting back in. This year, I added a small dryer to my extracting room. It has 2 100W light bulbs in a modified medium depth super and a flat muffin fan (from a computer store) to blow warm air thru the supers stacked above it. This also hastens removal of any residual fumes from the Bee-Go. Jerry Worrell: worrell@CBL.UMD.EDU Dunkirk MD ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 08:42:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: Re: Apistan Strips and observation hives On Aug 4th James Satterfield wrote about use of Apistan strips in an observation hive. His conclusion was that he didn't need to keep the strips on as long as listed on the label. The purpose of the label is to provide directions for use but not to have to go into details of why it is required! The reason for the length of time is to get all of the mites. Apistan is effective only on the adult mites and there are usually all stages of development within a hive as long as there is brood rearing going on. In order to kill the mites that are merely eggs on the day the strips are introduced, you have to wait until the eggs become adults! It must be assumed that some of the adults that were killed had just laid eggs. We need to cover at least one and preferably 2 brood cycles to assur maximum kill. Unfortunately, our wandering drones can reinfect the colony almost immediately. So the whole apiary should be treated at once. A while back someone had suggested that every beekeeper in a region do it at once. Almost an impossible task but then feral colonies don't get treated either. So do the best you can. Leave the strips on for the recommended time. Jerry Worrell worrell@CBL.UMD.EDU Dunkirk MD ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 09:17:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: (fwd) Re: Re-using Apistan Thought this info would be of interest to all on bee-l Jerry Worrell, Dunkirk,MD I think this is the latest from Washington State U In this months 'Cappings' (the newsletter of the Pierce Cnty Beekeepers Assn) some discussion of Apistan reuse was made. I think Jim Bach works at the Washington State University..Puyallup Campus (that is where the Assn has its meetings) -------------------------- FROM THE DISK OF JIM BACH: Reuse of Apistan Several persons have reported the reuse of Apistan after some modification of the surface of the strip. Testing of this method produced the following results: New Strips = 809 ug of fluvalinate on surface Visibly clean strips after 45 days of use = 201 ug (24.8%) Slightly contaminated strips after 45 days = 142 ug (17.6%) After 45 days: brushed with electric wire wheel = 110 ug (13.6%) After 45 days: planed on each side of strip = 70 ug (8.7%) After 6 months use (over winter) = 38 ug (4.7%) Obviously using the strips beyond the 45 days required on the product label significantly reduces the amount of chemical available to kill mites. Altering the surface of the strips actually reduced the amount of chemical available. Having low, sub-lethal levels of chemical in the presence of an organism raises the opportunity for the development of resistance to the produce. Any reuse of Apistan is prohibited by the label and now we know it is counter productive and may produce Varroa resistance to fluvalinate. --------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 09:46:08 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Loosestrife update? Comments: To: bee-l@ALBANY.BITNET The date for comments has come and gone and nothing has been mentioned since. Does anyone have an update? Aaron Morris - thinking quite a strife for no news! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 10:13:39 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: dextrose Hi: We are trying to find a way to provide sterile syrup to bees in indoor flight chambers. The quickest, cheapest, and easiest way is to use dextrose (glucose) in IV bags (if we use outdated solution, we will have a plentiful supply of "free" syrup. Question, can anyone comment on the nutritional tradeoffs of using a pure dextrose solution rather than a sugar complex? Thanks Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 12:25:39 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Lars A. Lutton" Subject: Re: fume boards From: NAME: Lars Lutton FUNC: Instructional Media Services TEL: (614)593-2669 To: MX%"BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU"@MRGATE@OUVAX Anne, I used Bee-Go for a number of years, it is significantly more effective than more recent 'scented' products. The down side is it smells like nothing less than highly concentrated vomit. I was greatly relieved when a substitue became available (3/4 hour exposure gave me a headache) and the slightest spillage on clothing resulted in a banning from the house, until a change of clothing! I've had pretty good luck with an almond scented product (the name escapes me) a couple of teaspoons on an unpainted fume board for about 8-10 minutes full sun to partial shade >70+F. Don't expect to clear deeps. Regards, Lars ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 10:46:46 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Farber Subject: Cowan 78 frame extractor I have just purchased a used Cowan 78 frame radial extractor. Is there a beekeeper on the internet with experience on this machine? I would like to find out about start up speeds, extracting times, etc. so that I don't blow out frames the first time I try it. Any and all replies will be answered. Thanks, Ian Westsyde Apiaries. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 15:13:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: August APIS Distributed to: USR:[MTS]INTERNET.DIS;69, mts FILENAME: AUGAPIS.95 Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter Apis--Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764) Volume 13, Number 8, August 1995 Copyright (c) 1995 M.T. Sanford "All Rights Reserved" SAMPLING FOR VARROA In the July 1995 issue of Bee Culture, Dr. Mark Winston writes that the possibility of creating Varroa mites that are resistant to the one product now labeled for their control is very real (also see November 1994 and February 1995 issues of APIS). One way to hold off the inevitable as long as possible is not to treat with Apistan(R) until absolutely necessary. Unfortunately, the number of mites it takes to do irreparable damage to a colony is not known. And sampling techniques that determine the actual number of mites in a beehive are extremely variable in their effectiveness. In Florida, the "ether roll" sampling technique continues to be used almost exclusively by bee inspectors in the Department of Agriculture and others. This technique is well spelled out in the video production, "Varroa Mite Detection," VT 249, available from this office by mailing a blank VHS tape to my attention. It is used so much because it requires only a single visit to a colony and the results are immediately available. However, it only samples a portion of a colony and destroys valuable bees in the process. Many Florida bee inspectors now urge beekeepers to think about treating soon (within 10 days) when one or two mites are found in an ether roll. More than that number is considered a signal to put Apistan(R) strips in immediately. This recommendation, however, will vary depending on location. Beekeepers should always check with their local inspectors for the latest information on treatment protocol. Several other methods for sampling Varroa mites besides the ether roll continue to be used. These include counting mites that are either killed/dislodged from bees using the product labeled for control itself [Apistan(R)] or alternative fumigants like formic acid and tobacco smoke. In addition, one can count Varroa present in uncapped drone brood or those on the bottomboard that drop from natural causes or may be groomed/knocked off by the bees. In one of few studies to determine Varroa levels in honey bees, M.D. Ellis and F.P. Baxdale reported on the efficiency of five sampling techniques from 44 overwintered two-story colonies in BeeScience, "Comparison of Formic Acid Sampling With Other Methods Used to Detect Varroa Mites (Varroa Jacobsoni Oud.) and Mite Distribution Within Colonies in Nebraska," (Vol. 3) 1994: pp. 139- 144, 1994. As expected, Apistan(R) recovered many more mites than any of the other methods. Formic acid was less effective than Apistan(R), but more so than ether roll, tobacco smoke fumigation, debris sampling (natural knockdown) or decapping drone brood, none of them being statistically significantly different from each other. The authors saw evidence that formic acid might rival the results of Apistan(R), but this would take more than the 24-hour exposure allotted in that particular study. To determine the efficiency of the ether roll, the authors compared the number of mites found in two rolls (10-second shakes for each) to those recovered by washing the sample in alcohol for 20 minutes. The alcohol wash detected about 1.7 mites for every one found by ether roll. Earlier studies cited by the authors, however, resulted in a two- to almost three-mite difference. The authors concluded that because ether rolls are inherently variable, beekeepers should develop a baseline standardized figure for their own particular technique by comparing ether roll with alcohol wash. The authors also described the mite distribution found in colonies during the study period (July and August 1992). Drone brood had over seven times as many mites as adult worker bees. And there were four times the number of mites in drone brood compared to worker brood. The authors stated that while only 10 percent of worker bees in their study had mites, other investigators have estimated as high as 20 percent. The time of year is also an important issue. This is a period characterized by a reduction in drone brood and adult drones will soon be ejected from colonies. It is the time when the switch from drone brood to worker brood is probably occurring (see October 1994 APIS). Thus, percentages found in the study may radically change as more mites begin to parasitize worker brood and adults. Two other factors also may influence density of mite populations in bee colonies. One is the effect mite population density has on other mites' reproduction (see June 1995 APIS). Another, discussed elsewhere in this newsletter, is the infertility of female mites, which may depend on the host (race of bee) they are found on. A final factor, according to the authors, is the length of time adult Varroa stay outside brood cells; there is evidence that this is shorter in colder areas. Once sealed inside cells, mites are less susceptible to most of the sampling methods described in the study. The authors, therefore, recommended that regional and seasonal studies are needed to effectively use mite population estimates. The authors concluded that although beekeepers will not want to treat colonies every time they find a mite, they need a sound basis to decide when or if such treatment can be delayed. Unfortunately, the above study, as most do, only raises more questions about the effectiveness of sampling for mites. We must wait for many more before the complex interactions between host and parasite can be better understood. Only then will it be possible to estimate a mite population and determine a definitive treatment level. Even this, however, may not be enough and studies of this nature may go for naught. Varroa has been implicated in transmitting viral infections. This may result in what is now being called parasitic mite syndrome (see December 1994 APIS). In situations where this possibility exists, the number of mites feeding on bees becomes less relevant. Unfortunately, less is known about the viral connection than the damage done by physical parasitism. In the absence of this kind of information, beekeepers are left to their own devices. This inevitably results in one philosophy: treating sooner rather than later. VARROA ELSEWHERE Evidence corroborating that the Varroa situation can be quite different based on climate and geography continues to accumulate. These differences are evident within a single country, or as the mite population shifts over time, they might even be observed in a single colony (see June 1995 APIS). For those who have had enough of Varroa, perhaps Brazil is the best place to go. G. Moretto and colleagues published "Reduction of Varroa Infestations in the State of Santa Catarina, in Southern Brazil," American Bee Journal, Vol. 135, No. 7, pp. 498-500 in July 1995. The two-year study sampled bees in 19 locations using the alcohol shake method. The authors found that over the course of about 10 years, Varroa infestation rates have dropped in the state of Santa Catarina. An average of about 17 mites per 100 adult bees was found right after Varroa's introduction. It is now at two per 100 adults, the predominant level in the rest of the country. The authors stated that this relatively low mite level is not damaging to colonies in their country. Thus, honey bees in Brazil do not require any Varroa treatment, despite the mite being present since 1972. A major reason for this, the authors believe, is the ability of Africanized honey bees to remove the mites from their bodies. Climate may also be responsible. But this fails to explain why honey bees in Santa Catarina state can survive without treatment, whereas those in Florida with a similar temperature and rainfall regime cannot. The authors concluded that the decreasing infestation rates in Santa Catarina state demonstrate an adaptive process has taken place in the host-parasite relationship. Another study by P. Rosenkranz and W. Engels, "Infertility of Varroa jacobsoni Females in Apis mellifera Worker Brood as a Tolerance Factor Against Varroatosis," Apidologie, Vol. 25, pp 402- 411, 1994, compared European bees in Germany (Carniolan) with Africanized bees in Brazil. In Brazil, over 40 percent of the female mites found in worker brood were infertile. In Carniolan bees, 10 to 20 percent were infertile. These infertility differences are not dependent on either broodnest or ambient (air) temperature, according to the authors. And in both European and Africanized bees, if fertile, female mites produced the same number of eggs. They also said this low fertility rate in Brazil compares with that found in the original host of Varroa, the Asian honey bee (Apis cerana). They concluded: "Since host-dependent fertility evidently has a strong influence on the population dynamics of this parasite (Varroa), it should be properly considered in future selection and breeding efforts in order to produce European bee strains tolerant against varroatosis." And then there is the New Guinea enigma. A study by D. Anderson, "Non-reproduction of Varroa jacobsoni in Apis mellifera Colonies in Papua New Guinea and Indonesia," Apidologie, Vol. 25, pp: 412-421, 1994, shows some surprising results. While comparing Varroa populations on both Apis cerana and Apis mellifera, the author found that mites were not reproducing on European bees. They were only present by virtue of being spread from nearby Apis cerana colonies. Extremely low infertility, as observed in the above Brazilian study, is ruled out by the author as a reason for no reproduction. He concluded there should have been some successfully reproducing mites seen in the large number of Varroa-infested cells examined (about 1,500 out of 68,000 total cells examined). In addition, there was no evidence that competition between Varroa and another mite, Tropilaelaps clareae was responsible. The latter mite was only observed in 35 percent of colonies examined. Environmental factors were also ruled out because reproduction was not impaired in Apis cerana colonies, either in the tropical lowlands or more temperate uplands. The author suggested the answer may come from two areas of study. The first is mite taxonomy or classification. It could be that the mites are different than those seen elsewhere in Asia or Europe and the Americas. Studies using DNA could determine this. The other area is mite reproductive biology. The fact that female mites infested both worker and drone brood, and were proceeding toward normal reproduction, but then were unable to lay eggs, the author suggested, may be because some crucial chemical factor was lacking. Given the results of this study, the most important experiment to run, he said, is to introduce colonies already found susceptible to Varroa in Europe into Papua New Guinea and see what happens to them. On a broader note, he concluded: "...the results of this study have shown the uncertainty that may be associated with predicting likely impacts of pest species in particular localities based on what is known about these pests in other localities." And what about the viral connection associated with parasitic mite syndrome as noted elsewhere? This possibility is not mentioned in any of these studies, but until more is known about the honey bee-Varroa connection, it should not be ignored. PANHANDLE BEE SEMINAR The 1995 Florida Panhandle Bee Seminar will be held September 8 and 9, 1995 at the Southport Mens Club, in Southport, FL. The meeting runs all day Friday and Saturday. Dr. Clarence Collison, Professor and Head of Entomology and Plant Pathology, Mississippi State University will be the featured speaker. The cost is $35.00 per person for both days if registering early. After August 25, the fee will be $40.00 per person. For more information, contact Sylvia Bullard, Escarosa Beekeeping Association, 904/478-7690 or Vernon Gwaltney, Tupelo Beekeepers Assocation, 904/476-4278. Sincerely, Malcolm T. Sanford Bldg 970, Box 110620 University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Phone (904) 392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX: 904-392-0190 BITNET Address: MTS@IFASGNV; INTERNET Address: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU APIS on the World Wide Web-- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm Copyright (c) M.T. Sanford 1995 "All Rights Reserved" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 20:39:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Fume boards Hi, We use fume boards exclusively in our operation (Calif). We use Bee-Go (Butyric anhydride I think). Just sprinkle it onto (an ounce maybe) the absorbing surface of your board being sure to spread it well over the entire surface. Give a light puff of smoke across the top bars of the super you want in order that the bees will begin to go down into the box (not too much that they get confused), as they leave set the board on top. The fumes will continue to chase them out and if they are started out with the smoke they tend to keep going without stopping and it will be quicker. It really only takes a few seconds for mediums (10 -30). If you're worried about the exposure of the chemical to your honey use it judiciously and quickly. If you have a few (10-20) to do don't use the boards just pull frames like Richard suggested. One big drawback to repellants is that the chemical (Bee-Go) smells like vomit and will stay on your clothes and skin for at least 3 days. Honey Robber is a brand that has the scent of cherries added to it but just smells like vomit with a weak cherry scent after a while. Only really cold weather affects its use (55 and below F) it should be fine during the summer season. I hope you have a good relationship with your spouse or friends, this scent will make you a little less desirable for a short time. Also avoid the fumes if you can it will irritate the eyes. Hope this helps! Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 11:23:05 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kieren Sunderland Subject: Indoor Mating of Queens Has anyone attempted to use, or heard of any success with mating queens in an enclosed area to achieve large scale controlled matings. Regards Kieren Sunderland Dubbo New South Wales kierlin@mail.enternet.com.au Kieren Sunderland Dubbo New South Wales kierlin@mail.enternet.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 11:23:16 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kieren Sunderland Subject: Varroa - if it was in Australia VARROA - IF IT WAS IN AUSTRALIA I ask this question about Varroa as it seems to be everywhere, but is not in Australia. If Varroa was in Australia, can anyone have a guess at what the effect this may have on the bees, as we are able to maintain brood rearing and honey production 12 months of the year. What management plans are used in the control of Varroa. Regards Kieren Sunderland Dubbo New South Wales Australia kierlin@mail.enternet.com.au Kieren Sunderland Dubbo New South Wales kierlin@mail.enternet.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 22:19:56 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Fume boards The proper use of fume boards was discussed in other postings, so I'll just confine myself to the chemicals. "Bee Go" (active ingredient Butyric Anhydride) is misnamed in my opinion. It should be called "Everything Go". Everyone agrees the stuff smells like vomit. Spill it on yourself, and you're sleeping in the garage for the next few days. Worse, the smell gets into the cappings wax. That means that any comb honey exposed to the stuff (and any wax you get from the cappings) will also smell like vomit. "Honey Robber" (same active ingredient) is just as bad. The cherry scent does not disguise the vomit smell, and the mixture of the two, well, Bee-L is a family newsgroup. My chemical of choice for fume boards is Benzaldehyde, the chemical that smells like almonds. The drawback is that Benzaldehyde is on the EPA's list of Nasty Chemicals, so it is hard to get. Mann Lake still lists it in gallons, and one gallon will last a hobbyist a lifetime. If that amount seems a bit much, then call Mann Lake (they may still have benzaldehyde in quarts), or get your local club to order a gallon and split it up. Benzaldehyde's drawbacks are it needs a somewhat warmer temperature than Bee-Go to work (at least 80 f), and if you spill Benzaldehyde on yourself you can get a chemical burn. The label also lists a spontaneous combustion hazard, so wash down your fume board with water after each session. One item on fume boards in general: They do not get rid of ALL the bees in a super. If you're planning to take the super into someplace that must remain totally bee-free (like an elementary school extracting demonstration), you will have to inspect and further de-bee the super. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 10:02:19 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: dextrose On Mon, 7 Aug 1995 10:13:39 -0600 Jerry J Bromenshenk asked: > We are trying to find a way to provide sterile syrup to bees in indoor > flight chambers. The quickest, cheapest, and easiest way is to use > dextrose (glucose) in IV bags (if we use outdated solution, we will have > a plentiful supply of "free" syrup. > Question, can anyone comment on the nutritional tradeoffs of using a pure > dextrose solution rather than a sugar complex? > Thanks Bonjour ! At the 1st analysis, the only problem is the poor solubility of glucose. At room temperature, a 50 % solution is saturated and will rapidly crystallize if some initiator is present (why not?). Seems it's no problem in running conditions provided the bees are disposing of water to dissolve the possible crystals. Impossible to winter: they only get blocks of sugar. Hope this helps ! Jean-Marie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 08:18:13 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Lars A. Lutton" Subject: Re: Fume boards From: NAME: Lars Lutton FUNC: Instructional Media Services TEL: (614)593-2669 To: MX%"BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU"@MRGATE@OUVAX The label also lists a spontaneous combustion: Thanks, I had no idea it was flammable. I can attest it will burn you- I had some on my glove apparantly. When I rested my hand on my hip the vapors worked through a nylon suit and a t-shirt. Didn't damage the fabric but sure got my attention by the time I figured it out. It went away in a short time, but you surely wouldn't want it near your mucous membranes- Regards, Lars ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 07:18:36 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Fume boards - NOT In-Reply-To: <009948EF.F83F1E00.27@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu> We haven't used fume boards here for years. Once carbolic was outlawed, we tried bee-go, but since our honey house is connected to our home, and the smell doesn't leave for six months or so, we decided it was not worth using. You get to the point where you can't smell it, but everyone else can. It's on your clothes and in your hair. In addition bee-go irritates my throat and lungs when used even on a windy day. We tried benzaldehyde years ago and although it has a nice smell and as far as I know is a food additive - artificial oil of almonds - but we couldn't make it work reliably enough for commercial service. We have three methods that work flawlessly: 1.) Tipping. We remove the boxes and stand them on end on top of a hive or in the grass. The bees leave within a few hours (minutes during a strong flow) and we pick them up after working a few more yards. If robbing is happening, you can't leave the boxes unattended, because the robbing causes the bees to leave fast, then return to remove the honey. During a decent flow, in a yard not trained to robbing, the boxes can be left for days without any problem. 2.) Bee blower. Works best if the boxes are inverted on a steel chute or frame (a stack of 3 standard supers cris-crossed or separated by an inch or two to let the air out and then nailed together with four lathes will work). This way the combs can be leafed through like a book from the bottom - which is now up and facing the operator. Getting them upside down - and back - without having them fall out is the trick. 3.) The Trusty bee brush. Suitable for up to ten boxes. The brush must be clean and fre of honey. It can be washed in a water bucket (we always carry one for hand washing and fire fighting) if it gets honey bound. Brush upwards in most cases. The bees normally gladly fly up - but resist being propelled downwards. Carry an empty box to start the process. Place it out of the bees flight path and transfer combs to it as the first box is emptied. Then scrape the newly emptied box and repeat the process, transferring the next set of combs into it. We extracted 100 hives using a bee brush years ago when we were starting out. It can go very fast with a good operator or two. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 11:35:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Blair Reischer Subject: A beginner's story Two months when I was suffering from queenlessness in my only hive, I requeened, and now have some observations and questions. A good consistent brood pattern, indicating the queen is laying suggest the hive is heathly. More drone cells than I had previously observed-- perhaps several dozen together near the bottom of each of the half dozen frames I examined yesterday. Is this normal, or is a problem? I have two deep brood boxes, and one new shallow super. The bees have not drawn out any foundation in the super. I removed the queen excluder in early June. When I work the bees, they are a little more "hyper" than before. I attribute this to the new queen's genetic contribution. Am I right? My original queen was a carolian from Weavers, I now have an Italian from Hardemans. In June, the top brood box was heavy with honey. It is lighter now. Do I need to feed the bees this fall and winter? I live in a heavily treed suburban section of Arlington, VA, with lots of tulip poplar trees and normal suburban vegetation. I noticed this May/June that the Tulip Poplar flowering was less prolific than in prior years. What causes this? How do I convince my bees to get on with it and starting building out some foundation in the top super? ************************************** Blair Reischer Market Technology Associates reischer@cpcug.org voice: 703/241-7857 4841 N. 30th St., Arlington, VA 22207 WWW: http://cpcug.org/user/reischer *************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 12:09:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Derk Phelps Subject: Re: Cowan 78 frame extractor Hello, We have a 26 frame and it seems to work great. A few cautions though, watch out for newer comb, it will rip those babies to bits. We had difficulty with toofast of a start up speed and Cowen has some sort of variable speed adpter we are going to install. Any granualted frames will also come apart. We are very satisfied overall with our machine. Cowen's plant is located down where my dad grew up so we are down there once or twice a year. Good luck, and I hope the extractor gets lots of use. Derk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 20:12:33 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: nokrian rivka Subject: Post Doctoral Research Comments: cc: polpal-l Hello, I'm a Ph.D. student in the field of Pollination Ecology at Tel Aviv University in ISRAEL. My current research is on melon (Cucumis melo) pollination under greenhouse conditions, under the supervision of Prof. Dan Eisikowitch. The research fields are located in the Arava valley, at the south of Israel, in a desert area. I have been working on various issues concerning pollination problems inside the greenhouses, studying both hive functioning and plants reactions to environmental constraints. Some of the issues I was working on recently deal with the question of irrigation and it's effect on nectar secretion and thereby on pollinator activity. One other aspect of greenhouse pollination is the question whether there is enough reward produced, to support the hive placed next to the greenhouse. Some of the results and conclusions in my research have already been adopted by the farmers and are presently practiced by them. My fields of interest are wide and include Pollination Ecology, Vegetation Dynamics as well as Plant Systematics and Evolution. I could be available for work as of September 1996. I would prefer it if I could find a place to do my post-doctoral research in countries outside of the USA, such as: Australia, New Zealand, Latin America, South Africa or Europe. Languages: I speak, read and write Hebrew (fluently), English (fluently) and Spanish (pretty well). I also read and speak a little Italian and French. Referees: Prof. Dan Eisikowitch / Department of Botany / Tel Aviv University / Ramat Aviv / 69978 Tel Aviv / ISRAEL E-mail: eisik@post.tau.ac.il Prof. C.C. Heyn / Department of Evolution, Systematics and Ecology Hebrew University / Givat Ram / 91904 Jerusalem / ISRAEL Prof. Amots Dafni / Institute of Evolution / Haifa University Haifa / ISRAEL E-mail: rabi306@haifauvm.bitnet.ac.il Please forward any information or suggestions to: Rivka Nokrian Department of Botany George S. Wise Faculty of Life Sciences Tel Aviv University Ramat Aviv 69978 Tel Aviv ISRAEL E-mail: rebeca@post.tau.ac.il Thank you all, Rivka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 07:45:10 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Goodwin Organization: HortResearch,Ruakura,NZ Subject: BEES AND BROOD IN CAGES I am conducting an investigation on the infectivity of B larvae where it would be useful if I could get small numbers of bees (75 - 100), without a queen, to raise brood from eggs (about 50) in small cages in an incubator. Before I start can anybody point me to a useful reference or provide a list of do's and don't's (other than don't bother trying). Thanks Mark Dr Mark Goodwin Hort Research Ruakura Research centre Private Bag 3123 Hamilton Phone 64 07 838 5049 Fax 64 07 838 5085 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 19:57:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Coyle Subject: Queen disappears Comments: To: bee-l%albnyvm1.BITNET@qucdn.queensu.ca I have a hive 2 1/2 supers high brood area. For some reason they supersed the queen. My problem is there is no queen. The queen cells were open, but no sign of a queen. After 2 weeks I put in a frame from another hive with eggs, larve and brood. They start building queen cells, they open but there is no sign of the queen. I have done this three times. Can any one help? Should I just buy a new queen? Thanks Ken Coyle After bees comes honey. kcoyle@hookup.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 20:19:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: A beginner's story >Subj: A beginner's story >Date: 95-08-08 11:38:16 EDT >From: BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU >To: BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU > >From: reischer@CPCUG.ORG (Blair Reischer) >.....More drone cells than I had previously observed-- perhaps >several dozen together near the bottom of each of the half dozen >frames I examined >yesterday. Is this normal, or is a problem? While the highest population of drones is in the spring, stong hives will keep drones throughout the summer, and here in the south, some may keep them all winter. In general, the stronger the hive, the more drones it will have. More drones will also be raised when pollen is abundant, while a shortage may cause them to get pushed out. Good bees need to have some drone comb. Beginners often remove it, making the bees tear out worker comb to make more drone comb. I prefer to keep the drone comb to the outside frames, as it is critical in the spring to have plenty of worker comb in the center of the brood nest. >When I work the bees, they are a little more "hyper" than before. I >attribute this to the new queen's genetic contribution. Am I right? >My original queen was a carolian from Weavers, I now have an >Italian from Hardemans. Again, generally speaking, Carniolans are the most gentle of all bees, while Italians are slightly more sassy. The old German black bee that used to be common in the wilds around here was more than sassy; it was sometimes vicious. There is a lot of variability though. If the bees are runny and nasty, you might consider another requeening. I won't tolerate nasty bees. >In June, the top brood box was heavy with honey. It is lighter now. > Do I need to feed the bees this fall and winter? Midsummer is a time of dearth in many places, especially in the south. We are just now starting to get some brush bloom, that is yielding a little nectar. Cotton and soybeans are yielding some, though poisoning can stop that. You might ask other beekeepers if you are in a good goldenrod area, as the bees can add quite a bit of weight there, and you may not need to feed. Goldenrod has many species, some yield and some don't. I've seen more yields on acid soils than sweet ones. So I'd wait another six weeks before feeding. Then if necessary, don't be stingy. >I live in a heavily treed suburban section of Arlington, VA, with lots >of tulip poplar trees and normal suburban vegetation. I noticed this >May/Junethat the Tulip Poplar flowering was less prolific than in >prior years. What causes this? Poplar is quite variable from year to year. Hardwoods often go into a biennial cycle blooming cycle. Yield is often quite variable, even when there are plenty of blossoms. >How do I convince my bees to get on with it and starting building >out some foundation in the top super? They had a setback, when you had to requeen, but it sounds like they are coming back. They may peak out, just as the goldenrod blooms and really pack it in. Patience. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 20:34:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Re: A beginner's story Blair, I live in Maryland, a slight bit south of Baltimore. At this time of year and with your hive condition, I would feed them a 1:1 sugar syrup. This is especially important if their honey stores are down as you indicate. This will also help them build up the colony and stimulate brood rearing. As for drawing out the comb in the super, I wouldn't worry about it now. Are you expecting to get a surplus honey crop from them? You wont be this year. You should remove the super as the bees will start chewing on the foundation in the frames. You might also want to consider a second hive. I didn't want two hives when I first started. I learned the hard way. I lost my colony last year, due to mites. I am not saying I wouldn't have lost two colonies if I had had two, but I might have been able to "salvage" one colony out of the two. This year I have two hives - one was much weaker than the other. This weaker hive was given a boost with a frame of brood from the stronger hive. If you have two hives, your chances are a little better than with one. I'll leave the rest of your questions to someone else who knows more than I do. I've only been beekeeping for three years. This is my first year of surplus honey - and only one of the two hives had a surplus. Do you know if there is a mite problem in your area? If you're not sure, you might want to contact your Extension Office, a local beekeeping club, or a local beekeeper. Now is the time to start looking for and treating for mites. There were some large losses of colonies due to mites in Maryland last year. It is a serious problem, one that needs to be given full attention. Laura (CORVI29@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 22:28:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ga14 Subject: Re: A beginner's story In-Reply-To: <199508081535.LAA16487@cpcug.org> Hi Blair. you have some good questions there and they show that you are getting into the brood nest and observing. That's really important in developing an understanding of what is going on in the hive. I'll respond to your questions in turn. >Two months when I was suffering from queenlessness in my only hive, I >requeened, and now have some observations and questions. > >A good consistent brood pattern, indicating the queen is laying suggest the >hive is heathly. > >More drone cells than I had previously observed-- perhaps several dozen >together near the bottom of each of the half dozen frames I examined >yesterday. Is this normal, or is a problem? Yes, this is normal. Usually this time of year drone production drops off in our area (mid-atlantic), but a newly introduced queen will produce drones a little longer than an older queen. It would be a problem if you started seeing drone brood in the middle or mixed in with the worker brood (indicating that the queen may becoming a drone layer). > >I have two deep brood boxes, and one new shallow super. The bees have not >drawn out any foundation in the super. I removed the queen excluder in >early June. You might as well go ahead and take off the super. The honey flow is finished in our area. It ended in mid June. We don't get enough of a fall flow here to draw comb. By taking your foundation off now you will prevent the bees from chewing up your foundation wax. They will move the wax around, making quite a mess of the nice new foundation or worse yet with Duragilt they chew the wax off the plastic rendering the foundation useless. >When I work the bees, they are a little more "hyper" than before. I >attribute this to the new queen's genetic contribution. Am I right? My >original queen was a carolian from Weavers, I now have an Italian from >Hardemans. Good observation. What you are seeing is not necessarily a stock change expression but a change in behavior at the end of a honey flow. When the honey flow has ended the bees become more defensive. Italians can be a little "hotter" than carniolans, but I think you are seeing the typical sefensiveness at the end of a honey flow. >In June, the top brood box was heavy with honey. It is lighter now. Do I >need to feed the bees this fall and winter? In our area you need approximately 60 lbs of honey to winter a colony. More of course is better. To estimate this - a deep comb will hold approximately 8 to 9 lbs of honey. Just as important as honey is a good population of healthy mite free bees to go into the winter. Use the vegetable oil patties to control the tracheal mites and Apistan for the Varroa mites. I recommend that people monitor (ether roll method) for varroa and treat when mites show up in the test. A late Summer feeding in an area where the fall flow is uncertain will stimulate the queen and give you a better population of healthy bees to going into winter. >I live in a heavily treed suburban section of Arlington, VA, with lots of >tulip poplar trees and normal suburban vegetation. I noticed this May/June >that the Tulip Poplar flowering was less prolific than in prior years. What >causes this? Seasonal variation is my best guess. This year in your area the Black Locust trees did very well. The bees will fly right past a Tulip Poplar to go to a Black Locust. After smelling the Balck Locust can you blame them? >How do I convince my bees to get on with it and starting building out some >foundation in the top super? Build them up - get them through the winter - and give them the foundation next year. Remember - Next years crop starts this Fall. good luck Gordy ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Gordon Allen-Wardell Extension Apiculturist Department Of Entomology Univeristy of Maryland College Park, MD 20742-5575 301 405-3953 email - ga14@umail.umd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 19:07:36 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Richard Foote, RBU, SFO, 415-598-5596" Organization: VeriFone Subject: Bombus e-mail list access? Can any one help -- I've seen references to the bombus list and I'd like to get more info the address I've seen is bombus@csi.uottawa.ca But I can't seem to send to it, or to listerv at that host name. Any help would be appreciated as we have two (at least) colonies of beautiful fuzzy black and yellow guys in our lawn (along with the apis happy in their hive) and we'd like to learn more about them, etc. As long as i'm posting, a bombus question: In one hole in the ground there are bumblebees and then there are BUMBLEBEES -- big ones that we call "B-52s" (after the plane, not the rock group). Are they drones? Then why do I see them nuzzling up to flowers? Thanks for help in either area. Thanks, Richard --------------------------------------------------------------- Why is Richard smiling? -- wife, lady cat and 25,000 lady apis Richard_f1@verifone.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 00:53:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: Bombus e-mail list access? Try mailing Dr. Plowright, who runs the list, at plowright@csi.uottawa.ca and asking to be put on. BUT don't expect an immediate response - the list only seems to operate when he's around, and sometimes he's gone. I sent a post a week ago and nothing; I assume he is just not there to do it. It's not an automatic listserver like bee-line. Males, queens, and worker bumblebees all forage at flowers. Only the queens and workers carry pollen lumps on their legs. At this time of year, all three can be seen (in indianapolis, anyway). Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 03:24:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN ROMANIK Subject: Apimondia 95 Apimondia 1995 at Lausanne, Switzerland To Dr. E Rashidzsdeh, Economist in Iran. From John Romanik 3200 Pine Orchard Lane Ellicott City, Maryland 21042 August 9, 1995 Yes, I a hobby beekeeper am going to Apimondia. There may be one other person from Maryland going and works in the USA national Bee Laboratory in Beltsville, Maryland. You can identify me by my white small beard and since I am 69 years old the beard lost its black color. I shall be wearing around my neck a bolo tie (like a necklace) with a real bee that is embedded in plastic and most likely I will be carrying and using my Video camera. This will be my 5th Apimondia. The first one for me was in 1967 at University of Maryland - the only time Apimondia was held in the USA. In 1987 I went to Communist Warsaw; in 1989 to Rio deJanerio; in 1991 Split, Yugoslavia was postponed to 1992 the cancelled; in 1993 Beijing, China and a side trip to Australia. Apimondia sets aside the Thursday for the excursion tours to ones choice of several location as you must know for the reading in the 2nd Circular. Till we meet I wish us and all participants a safe trip. ************************************************* John Romanik BBKM jr0002@epfl.epflbalto.org Ellicott City, Maryland USA ********************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 13:10:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Varroa Mites On the subject of mite control, I understand the drone cells attract the mites & I assume consequently the drones have a higher infestation of mites than the workers. I was reading in The hive & the Honey bee of using synthetic queen phernomes to attract drones for research. Could phernomes be used to attract drones, destroy them and the mites? How effective would this be? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 13:52:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: HoneyProducers Comments: cc: br0005@epfl2.epflbalto.org, fkovac@CapAccess.org, jr0002@epfl2.epflbalto.org Message/ASCII/Disk via ASCII Protocol. we 9aug95 1616Z Subject: Honey Producers Friends, 1. Honey producers in the Balto-Wash metro area or up to 90 mins away? 2. Would U B so kind as to contact me? 3. I need U. Thanks in advance. Jack the B-man Ellicott City Md usa we 9aug95 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 13:58:56 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BELLANTON002@WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU Subject: bee questions Hi, I live in CT and I'am finding more bees on my deck this week then I did earlier in the summer! Why is this? I alos noticed that bees are more wild and confused this past week then they were earlier in the summer! Why is this? What can I do to keep the bees off my deck? Will a bee sting me if I'am just sitting and minding my own business or do they only sting if provoked? I would also like to know of Newsgroups, www sites, ftp sites,etc where I can find out more about bees! Thanks you for your help! -- PLEASE RESPOND VIA EMAIL AT: bellanton002@wcsub.ctstateu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 14:31:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James D. Satterfield" Subject: Italian colony is "going dark" I have nine colonies in top bar hives and five five-bar nucs. I raised the queens in the nucs by grafting. The queens seem to be doing well in the nucs, but one of the nucs seems to be developing more and more very dark bees. All of my colonies have been Italian though I did have one colony of black bees establish itself in a vacant hive three years ago. That colony of black bees died out during the following winter...probably due to mites. I don't know enough about honeybee genetics to know how color is inherited, though I would bet that it's multiple alleles, quantitatively inherited. Any ideas on what I might be seeing?? Is it likely that the queen in the dark nuc mated with one or more dark drones? There well may be some feral colonies of black bees in adjacent forests, though feral colonies seem to be few and far between in Georgia, USA now compared to years before Varroa. Any comments would be appreciated. Cordially yours, Jim ----------------------------------------------------- | James D.Satterfield | jsatt@gsu.edu or | | P.O. Box 2243 | biojdsx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu | | Decatur, GA 30031 USA | Telephone 404 378-8917 | ----------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 14:39:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: TOP BAR HIVES Where can I get info/plans for top bar hives? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 19:09:47 GMT Reply-To: ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ibra Subject: Queen rearing book In her message dated Wednesday 26, July 1995 Keeley Rosenlund asked: > Can anyone recommend a good book or two for queen rearing? Vince Cook's 'Queen rearing simplified' lives up to its name. Whether you want to rear one queen or a hundred, this is a good place to start. It's a hard book to obtain, but is available from IBRA. Andrew Matheson -- ************************************************************************** * From Andrew Matheson, Director, International Bee Research Association * * * * E.mail (home): ibra@matheson.demon.co.uk * * (office): ibra@cardiff.ac.uk * * * * IBRA, 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK * * Fax (+44) 1222-665522 Telephone (+44) 1222-372409 * * http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/index.html * * * ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 12:05:53 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: johan calis Subject: Re: Varroa Mites Kelley Rosenlund wrote: \On the subject of mite control, I understand the drone cells attract the \mites & I assume consequently the drones have a higher infestation of mites \than the workers. Yes, mites invade drone brood cells about twelve times more frequent than worker brood cells. From the point of view of the mite, this is behaviour is favoured by the higher reproductive success in drone brood cells. However, mites seem to leave the bees with which they emerged from the brood cells, maybe influenced by the sometimes deplorable condition of the parasitized young bees. Also, drones can be the 'vehikle' to transport mites from one colony to another. However, within the colony mites will experience the largest probability to be brought to a suitable brood cell by a worker bee rather than by a drone since drones dominantly dwell on the (broodless) edges of the colony. So, I don't know if adult drones as a consequence of a higher brood cell infection will really have a higher infestation rate than the workers.(but this is hardly infestigated!) \I was reading in The hive & the Honey bee of using \synthetic queen phernomes to attract drones for research. \Could phernomes be used to attract drones, destroy them and the mites? I guess that this could work for mate-ready drones \How effective would this be? But I don't think that a significant part of the mites can be distroyed, moreover, suppose that we were able to destroy all the drones we may get other problems! It is probably more convenient to kill the drones and the mites before they emerge. Drone trapping combs are proven to be very effective varroacides, provided that all the mites are on the bees (during periods with no brood older than 7 days in your colonies). About 500 drone larvea in brood cells per kg of bees will trap during capping more than 95% of the mites from the bees. My private apiary (10-15 colonies, for the 4th year) as well as the university apiary (about 50 colonies, for the second year) are maintained healthy only using drone trapping combs. yours, Johan Calis Johan.Calis@medew.ento.wau.nl Wageningen Agricultural University The Netherlands ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 07:51:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerard Worrell Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 8 Aug 1995 to 9 Aug 1995 In-Reply-To: <199508100402.AAA20652@cbl.cees.edu> On Aug 9th James Satterfield wanted to know why his Italians were "going dark". Jim, Don't forget that even though you grafted your queen from known stock in your apiary, the queen mated with from 10 to 20 drones about a mile or two from your apiary, in a public drone congregation area. The second part of the equation is if you want pure stock you must artificially inseminate the queen rather than allow mating with the travelling salesmen! Jerry Worrell, worrell@CBL.CEES.EDU ( new address, BTW, host name changed) Dunkirk,MD ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 08:52:55 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: TOP BAR HIVES info request To get plans and information on "Top Bar" hives , contact the IBRA : International Bee Research Association 18 North Road Cardiff CF1 3DY , United Kingdom They have quite a lot of information avalible. Ask for the following : Information Chart 079c Chao , Marion L.Bristow - Jefe , Seccion Informatica Agriculture Sciences Campus Universidad de Concepcion , Campus Chillan Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 15:34:50 GMT+2 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Magnuson Organization: NIPB Subject: APIMONDIA Hello all Does anyone happen to know whether the registrations/enquiries desk at the Apimondia congress at Lausanne has an e-mail address that can be used to get messages through to delegates? Failing this, a fax number? TIA Paul Paul Magnuson ppripcm@plant4.agric.za Honeybee Research Unit Plant Protection Res. Inst. Agricultural Research Council. Private Bag X134 Tel. (012) 319 7113, Fax (012) 323 5275 Pretoria 0001 South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 09:26:59 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Einhorn Subject: hive plans Comments: To: biojdsx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu Kelley, If by "top bar hives" you mean the standard hive body used in the U.S., where the frames sit on groves routed into the hive body, then yes these plans are available. I built a bunch of hive bodies using plans out of one of the "Fine Woodworking Magazine's" books, published by Taunton Press (check your local "fine-woodworking" supply stores). Another useful book with hive plans is "Build It Better Yourself", a thick book of useful plans which also includes (if I remember correctly) a diagram for a four frame honey extractor. Keep in mind the supplier of frames that you plan on using, so that the equipment fits your bodies. This is true also if you already have some hive bodies or other equipment. The measurements should be modified to match the equipment that you already have, unless you plan on discontinuing the old equipment. Also keep in mind that bees have low tolerance for less than exacting carpentry. Build the box more than a 16th of an inch too narrow and they will glue the frames to the box. Build the box more than a 16th of an inch too wide, and they will build comb. If you leave any space between the boxes, they will glue the boxes together. Sharp clean cut edges on the wood, and solid well-fitting joints are suggested by the books that provide hive plans. The bodies that do not make the grade can have a board screwed to the bottom to become a wooden box. Buying hive kits are sometimes the cost effective way to proceed, rather than building them, unless you can get a really good deal on wood. Dave Einhorn deinhorn@isnov.ab.umd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 10:51:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Italian colony is "going dark" Sounds like your queen mated with a dark drone. See if anybody around you keeps Caucasian, Carniolan, or old "German" bees. ps. Don't automatically throw the queen out because of the dark offspring. I have had good results with homemade Italian-Carniolan queens. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 08:40:55 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: Varroa Mites john calis recently wrote about using drone trapping combs and getting rid of up to 95% of the mites as a result. i wonder if anyone has thought of or considered using a drone trap combined with an apistan strip, albeit a small one, to de-mite the drones in the trap without affecting the honey or the rest of the colony? it seems somehow feasible to construct a drone trap with a miticide external to the colony where the drones as they pass thru it get a brush of the strip, but the returning workers bypass it entirely. whatcha think? john ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 11:44:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Varroa Mites >It is probably more convenient to kill the drones and the mites before they >emerge. Drone trapping combs are proven to be very effective varroacides, >provided that all the mites are on the bees (during periods with no brood >older than 7 days in your colonies). About 500 drone larvea in brood cells >per kg of bees will trap during capping more than 95% of the mites from the >bees. My private apiary (10-15 colonies, for the 4th year) as well as the >university apiary (about 50 colonies, for the second year) are maintained >healthy only using drone trapping combs. What are drone trapping combs? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 11:56:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Morse Queen Book Roger A. Morse, Professor at Cornell University, has recently written a second edition of this popular Rearing Queen Honey Bees. Wicwas Press was the publisher. The retail price is $14.95 plus shipping. The book was completely revised, with a new chapter added on Morse's experiences rearing queens in Brazil, where Africanized bees are dominant. Contact me if you want more information, or would like to order. Larry Connor Wicwas Press P.O. Box 817 Cheshire CT 06410 Phone 203-250-7575 email ljconnor@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 13:08:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Italian colony is "going dark" I understand that since the queen mates with several drones her offspring can be of one drone for a while and then of another drone for a while. God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 19:13:56 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hooker Organization: Technology Management Ltd Subject: Re: Italian colony is "going dark" Your conclusion about a stray mating is probably correct. Do you remember what the temperature range was at the times that the Queens would have flown to mate? We have found in the UK that in colder conditions the queens seem to mate with more darker/black drones than when it is warmer. Keith >>> Keith JM Hooker <<< >>> Technology Management Ltd <<< >>> WHITSTABLE Kent CT5 4ED UK <<< ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 13:16:32 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Easy Requeening Here's a question for the commercial beekeepers (and the researchers and hobbyists might like to take a stab at it too): We have about 1500 hives out there with two brood chambers and an excluder on them. Presently they are up to 10 boxes (standard) high from the ground. Since the season is winding down and we might have a killer frost as early as next week, we are now reducing them to four or five boxes high in total, removing the honey, and leaving them with a couple of supers to hold the bees so they don't dwindle and so that we will not lose the crop that might just as easily still come in.. We have some nice queens ready to requeen many of the ones that have not been made up this year with new queens. We've decided that our wintering losses are usually due to queen failure, and we have also decided that we want prolific young queens in charge so that the bees will stay ahead of any mites and so that we will have large populations to split next spring. The question is; What is the least labour intensive and most reliable way of requeening these hives? We want to do about 700 in the next few weeks without having to go through brood chambers and looking for queens (which are not marked). Ideas? Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 13:22:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "John Gates 604 260-3015 (fax 549-5488)" Subject: Code of conduct/by-laws Hello All, This past spring the Minister of Agriculture in British Columbia Canada introduced the Farm Practices Protection (Right to Farm) Act which is designed to "protect farmers who follow acceptable farming standards, assist local governments in planning for agriculture and improve relationships between farm/non-farm neighbours." Part of the process involves developing standards for normal farm practice which could be used as a basis for assessing whether a practice is a nuisance. Cross-industry standards will be developed but some commodity groups will be involved in developing specific standards for their industries. The British Columbia Honey Producers' Association is contemplating the development of beekeeping standards and have asked me to pull together some background material for the annual general meeting this fall. If any of you have such things as beekeeping ordinances, local by-laws, codes of conduct and (too much to hope) standards of practice for beekeeping I would much appreciate receiving copies. Please send your response to me at the adress below. I can then make arrangements for postage if necessary. Thanks for your time, John Gates, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food 4607, 23rd. St. Vernon, B.C. Canada, V1T 4K7 Ph:( 604) 549-5580 fax:(604) 549-5488 Internet:JGates@galaxy.gov.bc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 18:54:33 -0500 Reply-To: godave@infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Johnson Organization: mailhost.nr.infi.net Subject: bee removal Help please, Some friends are moving into a house which has an active honey bee colony in the space between the roof and plasterboard making up the raised ceiling. Its a small, four room house and the bees are using both gable end louvered vents for entrance, although they favor one. This colony has been entrenched for at least three years and many bees are clustering on the louvers. It is approximately 10-15 feet from either louver in a space hardly larger than the 2x6 inch studding. My friends need to remove or eradicate it. As there is no access except through the ceiling (the comb is approximately midway between the roofline and gutters) they feel they will spray the clustering bees on the louvered vents on several occasions with soapy water. When those bees are sufficiently reduced they intend to close one vent and severely restrict the other. They hope to find some kind of pesticide dust to place strategically so the bees may track it into their nest as they pass through the entrance. They are still pondering whether to just allow the wax moths to clean up. Can anyone advise me of a pesticide effective in this situation? Maybe someone could advise me of a beekeeper near Wilmington, Delaware who would be willing to take on this task instead? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Dave Johnson godave@infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 18:30:00 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: bee removal In-Reply-To: <199508102350.TAA00613@larry.infi.net> On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Dave Johnson wrote: > occasions with soapy water. When those bees are sufficiently reduced they > intend to close one vent and severely restrict the other. They hope > to find some kind of pesticide dust to place strategically so the > bees may track it into their nest as they pass through the entrance. > They are still pondering whether to just allow the wax moths to clean > up. Once weakened - by whatever means - the nest will be robbed by wild or tame bees from the area. Using any pesticide on a honeybee colony carries the risk of introducing the pesticide into other colonies in the area. Don't do it. Besides, next swarming season, it will be re-inhabited sure as blazes. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 22:19:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Easy Requeening Mark the new queens. It only takes a minute for each queen, and it enables you to track her. Otherwise, you will have idea what sort of queen you have in your colonies (expensive pedigreed, supersedure, old, swarm, or whatever). If you are going to go through the time and effort of requeening you colonies, you should at least be able to see that the new queens took. How to requeen a colony without getting rid of the old queen has been a researcher's "holy grail" since the origin of requeening. If somebody can figure out how to do it, let us all know! Until then, I'm afraid you have no choice but to find and dispose of your old queens as part of your requeening, and you'll learn that marked queens are far easier to find. My personal choice for Fall requeening is the "Nuc" method (description available on request), but that method is labor intensive. Two trips to each hive are required (trips are two weeks apart). Each trip will take about 15 minutes open hive time (or longer if queens cannot be readily found). but acceptance is excellent. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD . W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 14:27:16 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Derek Bettesworth Subject: Bee Mail Please add me to your mailing list Derek Bettesworth Apicultural Advisory Officer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 00:22:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Easy Requeening > From: Allen Dick > We want to do about 700 in the next few weeks without having to > go through brood chambers and looking for queens (which are not > marked). > > Ideas? You want an *easy* way to requeen 700 hives that are 10 boxes high?!? How long have you been doing this bee thing again? 8-} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 09:05:57 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: johan calis Subject: Varroa Mites Yesterday I mentioned 'drone trapping combs'. I ment mite-trapping drone combs which consist of drone brood. These combs are drawn by the bees on drone comb foundation. When you put an empty drone comb into the broodnest of a colony, you will obtain (provided that it's the right season) a comb with a batch of drone brood differing about one week in age. Mites invade the brood cells before capping, for drone brood cells this starts about two days before capping, from that moment this drone comb starts to trap mites. This mite trapping drone comb will have the highest effectivity when all the mites of a colony are on the adult bees. The mite trapping drone combs are produced and preferably used in broodless colonies. We integrate the mite trapping drone combs into a swarm prevention method. I think that lots of variations could be considered, depending the beekeeping procedures prefered. yours, Johan Calis Johan.Calis@medew.ento.wau.nl Wageningen Agricultural University The Netherlands ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 13:12:09 MET Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Christian Mauron Subject: Re: APIMONDIA hello, i may perhaps help you. I found two fax numbers 031 8395615 is the fax number from the Congress's President 021 6433811 is the fax number from the house of Congress in Lausanne. They have no E-Mail adress Good Luck and perhaps see you at Apimondia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 07:50:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Logan Vanleigh Subject: Re: Easy Requeening > >My personal choice for Fall requeening is the "Nuc" method (description >available on request), but that method is labor intensive. Please post. Logan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:56:29 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: bee removal Mr.Johnson , I'll go along with W.Allen Dick's statment . Dusting or spraying the bee's may solve the problem now , however : 1) next sping , a colony will be back . 2) The dusted bee's will probably contaminate other colonies . 3) When robbing occurs on the weakened ( and dieing ) colony , other colonies will again be contaminated , weakened , and die . Both 2 and 3 could result in a lot of nasty things happening next spring ( diminished flora , drop off in horticulture production , and increased vegtable prices in your local area ... not to mention a lot of pissed off farmers and beekeepers ) . You best long term solution is to call the local beekeepers club and get sombody to remove , supper , and move the colony . Any stragler bees left in the attic can be eliminated with a short burst of a CO2 Fire Extinguisher . Them seal off the entrance's to the house attic with boards , caulk , and silicone sealant . Next sping if you suspect a swarm , do a quick inspection of the area . If it's the start of a swarm and no beekeeper is avalibe , CO2 'em . Otherwise , repeat the beekeeper procedure . What would be really supper is if you freind with this problem took up beekeeping , because it sure sounds like he has a real healthy family to start with . Chao , Marion L.Bristow - Jefe , Seccion Informatica Agriculture Sciences Campus Universidad de Concepcion , Campus Chillan Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 08:46:30 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: dextrose >We are trying to find a way to provide sterile syrup to bees in indoor >flight chambers. The quickest, cheapest, and easiest way is to use >dextrose (glucose) in IV bags (if we use outdated solution, we will have >a plentiful supply of "free" syrup. > >Question, can anyone comment on the nutritional tradeoffs of using a pure >dextrose solution rather than a sugar complex? > >Thanks > >Jerry Bromenshenk >The University of Montana >jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ***** When we were measuring information content in waggle dance maneuvers, we used sucrose, fructose, and glucose in our feeding dishes. Although bees readily drank the sucrose and fructose, they rejected the glucose --- so we couldn't gather data with that sugar. The reference to the paper is as follows: 1967 Wenner, A.M., P.H. Wells and R.J. Rohlf. An analysis of the waggle dance and recruitment in honey bees. Physiol. Zool. 40:317-344. Later we found in an old edition of ABC & XYZ OF BEEKEEPING the following comment (paraphrased): "Don't try to feed corn sugar [glucose] to bees; corn sugar is death to bees!" By that expression I infer that they just wouldn't readily imbibe glucose. We found the same phenomenon in northern California (1950s) when we moved a large number of hives up into honeydew [primarily glucose] country in the fall. Even though vegetation and litter were sugar coated with honeydew, colonies switched to that source very slowly. To get a good honeydew crop, we had to move the colonies into the area some weeks before honeydew became abundant. That was risky, since we had to forecast the degree of honeydew production that year. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 12:36:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: "Nuc" method requeening This is the "nuc" method of requeening I use in the Fall with excellent results. The procedure is adopted from D. Sammataro's "The Beekeeper's Handbook", pg 83. She calls it "division screen requeening", and her description includes diagrams. Although you will see that a fair amount of work is involved, the big advantages to this method are the high new queen acceptance rate, and the low risk of creating a queenless colony. The method is perfect for those who keep queens stored in small colonies (nucs) Procedure summary: A small colony with the new queen is created. The old colony is dequeened, and the two colonies united. I'm assuming that most of you keep your bees in two deep brood chambers. The method works equally well for folks like me who use 3 Illinois brood chambers. Special Equipment Needed: 1) A double screen. Make a frame the size of a hive body (19 7/8 X 16 1/4 inches for standard American gear) out of 1/2 X 3/4 molding, then cover both sides with screen, or better 1/8 mesh hardware cloth. One will be required for each hive you do. You'll find these useful anytime you have to keep bees from getting into (or out of) a box (just-pulled supers at harvestime, preventing robbing during hivework, and similar uses). 2) A means of providing a bee entrance to the upper hive body. This can be a shim with a notch cut in it (preferred), an unplugged hole in the upper hive body, or even a couple of 3/8" diameter sticks. 3) A spare hive body is useful for holding frames during manipulations. Procedure (assuming you're buying a new queen) 1) When your new queen comes, start by locating the existing queen in the colony to be requeened. Place this frame with the queen on it aside. If the existing queen is not marked, mark her now, preferably a different color than the one you new queen has. 2) With the queen known to be out of the hive, ensure the top hive body has at least 2 frames of old capped brood (dark brown cappings), one with uncapped larvae, and one or two frames of stores. You will usually find the upper hive body is already in this happy state. Some people will shake all the bees out of the upper hive body; I don't. 3) Place the frame with the old queen on it into the lower hive body. 4) Install the double screen over the lower hive body. The bees in the lower body now cannot get to the upper hive body. 5) Install your bee entrance to the upper hive body. I either use a shim on top of the screen, or two 3/8" diameter sticks propping up the forward side of the upper body. 6) Place the upper, queenless, hive body on top of the shim (or whatever). This is what you should have at this point: The old queen, with most of the bees, will be down in the lower hive body. The double screen will prevent bees (especially the old queen) from going directly from one hive body to the other. However, warm air will circulate between the hive bodies. A flight entrance to the upper hive body has been provided. The upper hive body is basically now an independent bee colony, although for the moment it is queenless. 7) Install your new queen (should be marked) in the upper hive body per the directions that come with her, and close up the colony. 8) Wait 2-3 weeks 9) Examine the upper colony. By now the new queen should be out and laying. Make sure she is doing well. 10a) If you decide to keep the new queen, then go into the lower hive body, and find and kill the old queen. Remove the double screen and the shim, then place a sheet of newspaper on top of the lower body. Replace the upper body. The bees will gnaw through the newspaper, uniting the colonies with the new queen. 10b) If you decide the new queen is no good (it happens), then kill the new queen, and either try requeening again or unite the two colonies with the old queen. You will note that with this method, you always have at least one accepted queen (new or old), and you don't get rid of the old queen until the new queen is accepted. You also get the bonus of two queens laying for a while. I've found the high acceptance rate for the "nuc" requeening method justifies the work involved. If you keep spare queens in small colonies (nucs), then you can requeen as follows: 1) Take the top and inner cover off the colony to be requeened (main colony). 2) Place your screen and entrance shim on top of the main colony's boxes. 3). Place the box with the nuc (with the new queen) over the screen and shim. 4) Leave this alone for 2-3 weeks. 5) Confirm the queen in the nuc is laying properly. 6) Find and remove the old queen from the main hive. 7) Unite the colonies via the sheet-of-newspaper method described above. Try it, you won't be sorry. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 15:16:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Varroa Mites/brood comb There are companies that make all plastic frames/foundation made for workers bees. Are there any companies that make frames that are made with drone cells to encourage the queen to lay? By the way, how do the mites know the difference between drone/worker cells? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 17:10:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jon Dain Subject: Re: TOP BAR HIVES >Where can I get info/plans for top bar hives? >God Bless, >Kelley Rosenlund >Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A. Kelley: If you send me an address here in Gainesville, I can send you plans for a couple of different top bar hives. Jonathan Dain - University of Florida - JDain@tcd.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 16:04:12 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hooker Organization: Technology Management Ltd Subject: Re: Code of conduct/Standards of Beekeeping As a senior UK beekeeper I have been brought up on keeping bees by monitoring their health, swarming status, food stocks etc. on a 10-14 day inspection basis. From correspondence to this group I am unsure that this is the way that beekeepers in a number of other countries operate. Could beekeepers outside the UK confirm their actions on the following (by personal mail rather than to the news-group):- Do you undertake systematic swarm control measures? How often do you inspect the health of the brood area? Do you know the age of your queens? Do you tolerate bees with a bad temprement? How many colonies do you run? Which country are you keeping bees in? If there is to be a Code of Conduct/Standard of Beekeeping then its roots must rest in how much our bees effect others, and by default each one of the above items is critical to keeping bees with minimum interference to anyone else. I will post the overall results of the above qestionnaire for everyones benefit. The more that contribute the more realistic the results. Thanks in advance. Keith >>> Keith JM Hooker <<< >>> Technology Management Ltd <<< >>> WHITSTABLE Kent CT5 4ED UK <<< ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 16:42:12 -0500 Reply-To: godave@infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Johnson Organization: mailhost.nr.infi.net Subject: Bee removal advice wanted Help please, I manage half a dozen colonies for honey' and fun, and some friends called who are moving into a house which has an active honey bee colony in the space between the roof and plasterboard making up the raised (cathedral) ceiling. Its a small, four room house and the bees are using both gable end louvered vents for entrance, although they favor one. This colony has been entrenched for at least three years and many bees are clustering on the louvers. The brood nest is approximately 10-15 feet from the end of the house in a space hardly larger than the 2x6 inch studding. My friends need to remove or eradicate it. As there is no access except through the ceiling (the comb is approximately midway between the roofline and gutters) they feel they will spray the clustering bees on the louvered vents on several occasions with soapy water. When those bees are sufficiently reduced they intend to close one vent and severely restrict the other. They hope to find some kind of pesticide dust to place strategically so the bees may track it into their nest as they pass through the entrance. They are still pondering whether to just allow the wax moths to clean up. Can anyone advise me of a pesticide dust effective in this situation? *Instead,* maybe someone could advise me of a beekeeper near Wilmington, Delaware who would be willing to take on this task ? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Dave Johnson godave@infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 20:04:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Worrell Subject: HoneyProducers Hi John - I live in northern Baltimore County 7 miles west of I-83. Call me at 410-343-1830. Mike Worrell ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 23:56:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward Sterling Subject: Re: Varroa Mites I live in central Massachusetts, USA. I am sharing the care, and output, of 2 hives with a friend. It's our first season and the 2 hives are doing very well. We haven't checked for varroa, if it is present it certainly seems to have no effect on the hive. I kept bees in Canada for 6 years back 81-86 so I am not a complete novice. The friend's uncle has 2 hives, and knows for a fact they are infested with varroa. The uncle is old, and tired of it all, and wants to offer the hives to my friend. My friend asks: 1. What proximity of the infested hives might cause them to infest our 2 "clean hives"? Or does "every" hive in North America now face inevitable infestation, making it a non-issue. 2. If my friend works on the uncle's infested hives, will the varroa parasitically remain on his gloves, veil, and beesuit, alive and well enough to possibly then infect our 2 good hives when he comes to work on them. If they do get on clothing and gloves, how long can they live "outside" their "apis" host body? Thanks for feedback Ed ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Sterling, GPCC | ACTUAL quotes from my kids: "Daddy, hummingbirds Bolton, MA 01740 USA | help the bees put honey in the flowers!" "In the Phone/FAX: 508-779-6058 | daytime, the sun melts the moon into cloudpieces!" "ed@gpcc.ultranet.com" | "A snowman makes the quietest sounds in the world" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wish you had a favorite childhood toy from the 1950s/60s/70s back again? Barbie? GI Joe? Fanner 50? Girder and Panel? See http://www.ultranet.com/~ed ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 00:44:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: Re: Easy Requeening In-Reply-To: <199508111150.HAA17540@cosmail4.ctd.ornl.gov> I have been using the "nuc method" for requeening for many years. Today I just verified acceptance in 50 nucs on top of as many colonies. Only one was qeenless (the queen was dead in her cage!). But this method is in fact labor intensive. It has the great advantage to give wonderful acceptance even in the worst circumstances. It allows for safe requeening even at the end of the season. There exist an easy method to requeen with cells without searching the old queen. Just introduce a cell placed in a ripe cell protector in a honey super where the bees are working. The virgin hatches, goes down to the brood chambers (provided you do not use a queen excluder), fights with the old queen and survives most of the time. I do not use this method myself but I was told that approximately 60% of the queens are replaced every year if this method is applied to all the colonies. Of course there is no queen laying for a certain time. I also imagin that this method should not work very well if the hives are placed in a way that there could be some drifting of the young queens returning to the hive after mating. This method is not perfect but I think I would consider using it if I was a honey producer with a couple thousand hives. _______________________________ ~ |_____JEAN-PIERRE CHAPLEAU______| ~ bee breeder |1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien,| ~ | Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 | vice president of the Canadian Honey Council | phone: (819) 828-3396 | ~ ~ | fax: (819) 828-0357 | ~ ~ | chapleau@scuzzy.fmmo.ca | ~ ~ |______________________________~ ~ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 23:54:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: really really basic question about queens I don't raise bees. But from the discussions, it sounds as though you have to requeen hives often. Why? Does the current queen wear out? She lives much longer than a year, right? THanks, Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA La Reine du Jardin des Bourdons ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 23:55:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: ps Every time I eat honey now, I feel more and more grateful that someone else did all the work!! It doesn't seem as expensive now either. Liz Day ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 02:21:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: really really basic question about queens In a message dated 95-08-12 00:58:39 EDT, Liz Day (LDAY@indy.net) asks: >I don't raise bees. But from the discussions, it sounds as though >you have to requeen hives often. >Why? Does the current queen wear out? She lives much longer than >a year, right? While a queen can theoretically last 2 - 4 years, there are several good reasons to encourage annual requeening, especially in commercial beekeeping. 1. Queens in their first year tend to be more prolific layers than in the second year, helping enable the bees to "outrun" mites and other problems. 2. Commercial beekeeping, especially if there is some movement of hives from crop to crop, burns out the queens earlier than they would in more moderate use. Each move stimulates the queen to a new burst of activity (and well it should, because there are losses of adults and extra stresses involved). The queen has a finite amount of sperm cells from her once in a lifetime mating, and when she's done, she's done. It's better to replace on a regular schedule that to have hives declining from failing queens. 3. Queens are "programmed" to swarm in their second year. With annual replacement, swarming is MUCH reduced. 4. Requeening on a schedule is an excuse to get into the hive, to check for all sorts of problems. Looking for the old queen is a good way to get to know your bees. Despite all these reasons, I do not requeen every single hive each year, only about 80%. This way I try to save some of the superior queens to raise the general level of the stock. Queens that do not measure up in any way, are culled without regret, but those who are doing the job are left to carry on, and the few that really shine, are marked as potential breeders. Reasons to cull queens: Mean bees, nervous, runny bees, chalkbrood, sacbrood, European foulbrood, high levels of tracheal mites or viruses (greasy looking, k-wings, bald bees, bald brood, sour smelling bees), low populations, drone brood in worker cells, small clusters, poor pollen gathering and storage in relation to other hives, undersized (poorly fed) workers. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 *NASA had to cancel their plans to launch an exploratory space mission outside the solar system, before the public learned of their latest problem. The animals were coming and lining up... two by two. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 02:21:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: ps In a message dated 95-08-12 01:01:39 EDT, Liz Day writes: >Every time I eat honey now, I feel more and more grateful that >someone else did all the work!! It doesn't seem as expensive >now either. Nice to be appreciated, but don't forget your melons, cukes, apples, almonds, and lots of other things the bees give us. When we bee folks are stuck in honey grooves, is it surprising that the general public, and often even farmers, think we are irrelevant? PS: My French is rusty (never was much good in France, anyway) what's La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques .... The queen of the city of ?? Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 *Been looking for heros, can only find celebrities.* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 08:40:04 GMT Reply-To: allister@elms.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Allister C. Guy" Subject: requeening Allen, I was telling my beekeeing friend (he's a chartered engineer) about you re-queening problem and he suggested that you might like to get in touch with a Mr. Tom McEwan at Lawrence Livermore Labs. Tom McEwan is working on a device called MIR, Micropower Impulse Radar, which could locate the queen (because of her size) from outside of the hive. It should be able to pinpoint her to the actual frame she is on. My first question was what about radiation but, as this was so low, it is difficult to measure and would appear not to be a problem. If this device proved to be accurate in locating the Queen then it should reduce labour considerably. Hope this is useful. Would you keep me posted on any results? Allister -- Allister C. Guy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 08:15:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: really really basic question about queens > I don't raise bees. But from the discussions, it sounds as though > you have to requeen hives often. > Why? Does the current queen wear out? She lives much longer than > a year, right? > THanks, > Liz Day > LDAY@indy.net > Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA > > La Reine du Jardin des Bourdons > Hi, I've been a B-keeper for 35 consecutive years at one location. I have NEVER requeened a hive. The B's know more about it than I do so I let them decide. (Queen breeders probably hate my guts.) Suum cuique.. Cheers. Jack the B-man Ellicott City (founded 1772) MD ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 09:33:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: Varroa Mites In-Reply-To: <199508120356.XAA11312@remus.ultranet.com> from "Edward Sterling" at Aug 11, 95 11:56:13 pm To Ed Sterling: Assume your bees have varroa and test for them now, or you may well lose your colonies over winter. This is the time of year when the mites are at their highest populations so if you have them, you should find them quickly. Varroa can live several hours off a host bee, depending on temperature and humidity. If your colonies are 1/2hour apart and you move from one to another, then you may very well be carrying mites with you. Hope this helps, and good luck Diana Sammataro ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 10:48:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Brood chambers and overwintering Of my two colonies, one has been slow to build up due to a queen problem. The bees solved that problem and raised a new queen. Smart bees, eh? This colony is in one brood chamber now. Its not overcrowded. I have not put a second chamber on it as I have no spare frames with drawn comb. I have the following questions: 1. Can these bees successfully overwinter in one brood chamber? If so, is there anything that I should do or know about? 2. Can I aggressively feed syrup to stimulate the bees to draw comb to fill up a second chamber? 3. Will the bees be redirecting any energy to drawing comb that that would have spent doing other important pre-fall/winter chores? Laura Downey Jessup, Maryland (CORVI29@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 11:38:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)" Subject: Re: ps Oh. Unfortunately it's even worse than that. When I think pollination, I think *bumble bees*. Sorry! It's because a) I'm trying to study them and b) our garden here seems to be pollinated OK with hardly any Apis. >Every time I eat honey now, I feel more and more grateful that >someone else did all the work!! It doesn't seem as expensive >now either. Nice to be appreciated, but don't forget your melons, cukes, apples, almonds, and lots of other things the bees give us. When we bee folks are stuck in honey grooves, is it surprising that th general public, and often even farmers, think we are irrelevant? PS: My French is rusty (never was much good in France, anyway) what's L Reine de la Cite' des Phoques .... The queen of the city of ?? Seals. Don't ask. I should change my headers. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA La Reine du Jardin des Bourdons ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 12:51:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Funny Honey? Dear Bee folks, We've had a flood of unnatural looking "honey" in our produce stands this year. It is crystal clear, unnaturally light, and, except for sweet, totally flavorless. Most of it is labeled Sour Wood, which it, in no way resembles. My suspicion is that it is 10 - 15% honey and the remainder corn syrup. Some has a piece of "honeycomb" packed with it, which leads consumers to feel more confident. They don't realize that this can be produced by feeding corn syrup to the bees. It is the whitest wax I've ever seen. This product looks similar to past products produced by an out-of-state packer, who has been repeatedly cited for adulteration. This packer's label has mostly disappeared. The label for the product in question does not identify the packer, but says *packed for* and lists a wholesaler at the state farmers' market. Question: Is there any regulation that requires identification of the packer? I understand federal regulations require identification of the country of origin, which this label does not do either. I have asked the Department of Agriculture to test the "honey" for sourwood pollen, and possible adulteration with corn syrup. Of course I have requested this before, with no action taken that I know of. Is this kind of stuff showing up elsewhere? Has anyone else gotten any testing done. Please let me know of the results if so. This has really hurt my sales at produce stands. After all the work of producing and packing a high quality product at marginal prices, it is really galling to be out competed by products that are almost certainly misrepresented, if not fraudulent. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 13:44:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: really really basic question about queens In a message dated 95-08-12 08:19:06 EDT, Jack the B-man writes: > I've been a B-keeper for 35 consecutive years >at one location. I have NEVER requeened a >hive. The B's know more about it than I do >so I let them decide. (Queen breeders probably >hate my guts.) Suum cuique.. Cheers. If it works for you, great! I'm sure your bees aren't stressed as much as commercially worked, migratory bees. And when the bees are kept in one location, there's hardly a better way to get a bee that is well adapted to local conditions. Maybe my bees are more stupid, since I have too many of them that don't successfully raise replacement queens when mamma fails. But then again, this mostly happens during cotton spray season, so I think there may be a connection. Cells are raised, but obviously they don't get mated or established. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215 Hemingway, SC 29554 *Don't worry about me. Occasionally the >savant< part kicks in.* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 17:52:50 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: Contract for bee yards I have been keeping my hives on my property, but next year I would like to move some of them else where. In the HIVE and the HONEY bee they have a sample legal paper for pollination, but none for outyards. I was wondering if anyone has a agreement and could send me a copy. Also what is a fair rent. A percentage of your honey, a flat rate? Thanks Bill Hughes Bent Holly Farms Brighton, Tennessee ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 14:23:53 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kieren Sunderland Subject: Plastic Comb Can someone tell me of a supplier of plastic comb (Full Depth) that is already partly drawn-out ready to drop into the hive (it doesn't use bees wax). Sorry don't know the name of it only heard that it is avaliable in the US. Kieren Sunderland Sunderland Apiaries Dubbo New South Wales Australia kierlin@mail.enternet.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 11:05:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Funny Honey? On aduterated honey: If you suspect someone is selling such a concoction, call The National Honey Board at (800)533-7162. You've tried the USDA; also try the local Food and Drug Administration, and your State Department of Agriculture. Adulterated honey hurts everyone legitimate. It's up to us to keep our hard-won reputation for product purity. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 21:59:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Plastic Comb Kieren, It's PERMA COMB from Perma Comb Systems 22543 Ventura Blvd., Dept. 2 Suite 222-A Woodland Hill, CA 91364 (818) 224-2191. Never used it but have seen it, real tough stuff. It can be high speed extracted without uncapping and no blowouts. Kinda pricey though. Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 07:49:24 CST6CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BLANE WHITE Organization: Minnesota Dept of Agriculture Subject: Re: Funny Honey? Hi Dave, Please contact Troy Fore of the American Beekeeping Federation about this "honey". The Federation will do the testing and help press for the removal of adulterated honey and penalties for the persons involved. It takes all beekeepers to monitor the marketplace for these kinds of products and all working together to get rid of them. As you know, these products only hurt honey sales and often turn people away from honey. Troy has been very helpful in dealing with this adulteration issue here in MN. Troy Fore American Beekeeping Federation PO Box 1038 Jesup, GA 31545 phone 912-427-8447 or 912-427-4018 Blane ****************************************** Blane White State Apiary Inspector Minnesota Department of Agriculture Division of Plant Protection 90 W Plato Blvd St Paul, MN 55107 http://www.mda.state.mn.us ph 612-296-0591 fax 612-296-7386 bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 11:45:50 EDT Reply-To: "Glen B. Glater" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Glen B. Glater" Subject: Observation hives overwintering in New England Has anyone had any success in getting an observation hive to winter over in the Northeast. Are there any particular tricks to it? My observation hive always dies. --glen ************************************************************** Midnight Networks Inc. * 200 Fifth Avenue * Waltham, MA 02154 Glen B. Glater Principal, Strategic Networking Group Phone: (617) 890-1001 Fax: (617) 890-0028 Internet: glen@midnight.com The Best in Network Software ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 12:44:00 -0400 Reply-To: aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin R. Palm" Subject: Missing Bee-L Digest 12 Aug 1995 to 13 Aug 1995 Hello all, I get Bee-L in digest format, and I don't seem to have received today's digest (12 Aug 1995 to 13 Aug 1995). Could someone E-mail a copy to me so that I don't have to get this month's log from the listserver?? Thanks a lot!! Kevin Palm -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin R. Palm aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 10:53:02 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: BEE-L on the web Contents: 1.) Web access to complete BEE-L history and current discussions 2.) Email access to some historical BEE-L discussions and logs There are two ways now to read BEE-L. 1. ) BEE-l can presently be read on the Worldwide Web by pointing your brouser at http://www.internode.net:80/~allend/index.html You can also still get there from http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka The National (USA) Honey Board Database is also there to brouse or download. There is also a set of links to other web bee sites. If you have web access, either by PPP and a graphical brouser or by lynx (a UNIX brouser available on many UNIX shell accounts by typing the command 'lynx'), this is the fast, simple way to go. 2.) For those with no web access, logs are also available quite conveniently by email from LISTSERV@uacsc2.albany.edu However they only go back to 1994. Due to the increasing size of recent logs and limited space on the LISTSERV, the older logs have been displaced. To have a BEE-L log emailed to you: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Just send a message with no subject (subject lines are ignored) to LISTSERV@uacsc2.albany.edu with the message GET BEE-L LOGMMYY Where MM is the month (ie. 05 for May) and YY is the year (ie. 95 for 1995). To get May 95, just type GET BEE-L LOG9505 Additional logs requested can be added on up to four more lines in your message. Be aware of the spacing of the words (No space in LOG9505, for example). Leave out any other text -- such as .signatures. Additional text - other than lines with additional commands -- will trigger harmless (but confusing to you) email error messages from the LISTSERV. The log will arrive some time later in your mailbox. Warning: logs can be 650 K in size. Therefore please edit your contributions to BEE-L and leave off long unecessary quotes and sigs: Enjoy. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 15:26:03 +0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Bernard Subject: Re: Observation hives overwintering in New England Comments: To: "Glen B. Glater" >Has anyone had any success in getting an observation hive to winter >over in the Northeast. Are there any particular tricks to it? My >observation hive always dies. My only experience with overwinter observation hives has been here in Maryland. The observation hive that I overwinter is for one of the local county nature centers and consists of a single frame width by three deep frames plus two shallows high. In MD our queens, in full size hives, begin laying in early January. The observation hives begin a bit later, but can not retain the heat needed to keep the brood temperatures at 92-93 degrees F because they can't cluster appropriately in only a single frame width. This may seem illogical because the observation hive is indoors, but it has been the greatest factor in overwinter the observation hive. Hives that can't conserve heat begin laying brood that never hatches or don't even attempt to raise brood, as if the queen has failed. The adult population drops and the hive dwindles before brood rearing gets under way, giving the false impression that the queen has failed. Feeding stimulative sugar syrup will not help because the queen is generally fine. The only way that I have been able to get them to overwinter successfully is by adding a sheet of the blue styrofoam insulation over the glass on both sides of the observation hive. The park personnel remove the stryofoam during visiting hours and then replace them back on every night. This greatly helps the bees conserve heat and has been essential to successful overwintering. I can only imagine that heat conservation is even more important for you in the northeast. David Bernard Vice President, Maryland State Beekeepers EAS Master Beekeeper USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 13:22:22 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: Desensitization In-Reply-To: <9508141545.AA11233@noon.midnight.com> Re my bee sting experiences last month..... I tested positive for honey bee sting allergy this morning, less so for the other common hymnoptera, and am planning to go through desensitization therapy. Have any other beekeepers experienced this - and if so, how long did it take, and how successful was it? For the uninitiated, the test is quite fascinating. First, they test you with a generic histamine to make sure that nothing (like Benadryl or some condition) is blocking a response. Then they apply a drop of .001mg/ml of various venoms on your skin, and prick eack point with a needle. After 15 minutes, if no reaction, they apply a drop of .01mg/ml subcutaneously with a hypodermic. They keep doing this with the various species at increasing concentrations at different sites on the skin until the final test, which is at 10mg/ml, which is about 1/100 the dose from a typical sting. I reacted to the honeybee at the .01 concentration. I didn't react to the wasps, hornets or yellowjackets until the final dose, 1000 times as strong as the final Honeybee dose (once a reaction, they stop applying that particular venom). Most people react to the 10mg/ml dose. The therapy consists of weekly injections of bee venom, very watered down at first, increasing to up to 2 stings worth near the end - up to 5 years! Within 6 months, it will be safe for me to get stung - so I will work my bees next spring (a friend will help me this fall apply strips, perform inspections, etc.). ALthough this therapy and my ride to the emergency room is probably a direct result of beekeeping, I am not eager to give it up lock stock and barrel. Doing so doesn't make me any less allergic, although it certainly minimises the risk. But it is humbling.... Casey Burns cburns@kendaco.telebyte.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 11:58:48 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kieren Sunderland Subject: Re: Desensitization >Re my bee sting experiences last month..... > >I tested positive for honey bee sting allergy this morning, less so for >the other common hymnoptera, and am planning to go through >desensitization therapy. Have any other beekeepers experienced this - and >if so, how long did it take, and how successful was it? My brother had the same problem and was desensitized. He had 6 months worth of treatment, then he got stung to see how the treatment was going and the only evidence that he was stung was a little swelling (he then stopped the treatment), that was 4 years ago and he workes bees full-time and has not had any concerns from being stung since. We still carry adrenalin injections just in case, because we can be 2-3 hours from the nearest medical help at times. Kieren Sunderland Sunderland Apiaries Dubbo New South Wales Australia kierlin@mail.enternet.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 12:14:56 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kieren Sunderland Subject: Re: Desensitization - right the second time >Re my bee sting experiences last month..... > >I tested positive for honey bee sting allergy this morning, less so for >the other common hymnoptera, and am planning to go through >desensitization therapy. Have any other beekeepers experienced this - and >if so, how long did it take, and how successful was it? > Sory it should read '16 months worth of treatment' - I must learn to type one day!! >My brother had the same problem and was desensitized. He had 6 months worth of treatment, then he got stung to see how the treatment was going and the only evidence that he was stung was a little swelling (he then stopped the treatment), that was 4 years ago and he workes bees full-time and has not had any concerns from being stung since. We still carry adrenalin injections just in case, because we can be 2-3 hours from the nearest medical help at times. Kieren Sunderland Sunderland Apiaries Dubbo New South Wales Australia kierlin@mail.enternet.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 00:04:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Desensitization Casey, I went through sting desensitization for honeybees, mixed wasps, and yellow hornets. It's a five year procedure. The opening test was as you describe, as was the basic treatment. You get to be quite a judge of the skill of the person giving the injections, Fortunately, the weekly sessions get replaced by bi-wwekly, then monthly, and finally every six weeks. At the end of 5 years, you will probably be retested, and declared desensitized. I was not asked to stop working my bees; in fact my allergist got a bit of a chuckle out of her beekeeper patient who was allergic to bee stings. I tended my hives (and got stung ocaisionally), all during the initial desensitization and later maintenance phases of the treatment. In her opinion, giving up bees might reduce the risk of a bad reaction, but one could still get stung by walking through a clover field. Your allergist might have a different opinion. She also appreciated the gifts of honey at Christmastime. I did put an "epi-pen" emergency injection kit in my hive tools pail, and still replace it yearly per the shelf life instructions. I consider it a sensible precaution, especially since I have frequent visitors to my hives. With all the bee stings I have had since, I can tell you the therapy works. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 00:52:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Contract for bee yards > From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." > I have been keeping my hives on my property, but next year I would > like to move some of them else where. In the HIVE and the HONEY bee > they have a sample legal paper for pollination, but none for outyards. > I was wondering if anyone has a agreement and could send me a copy. > Also what is a fair rent. A percentage of your honey, a flat rate? My deal with my friends is that they can have all the honey they want for free and my bees will probably pollinate their garden and fruit trees. They always ask me about plants they want to get for around the house and will the plant hurt the bees. 8-} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 08:58:25 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: johan calis Subject: Varroa Mites brood invasion rate Dear Kelley, The higher rate of brood cell invasion into drone cells by Varroa mites can partly be explained mechanically. When you consider that a mite has to be brought by a bee to a suitable brood cell, the almost two times bigger area of the drone brood cell will attribute to this higher rate. Moreover, drone cells are already invaded from more than two days before the brood cells are capped, while worker brood cells are invaded from about 1/2 a day before capping. In this way a higher drone brood cell invasion rate of about 8 times can be expected. However, drone brood cells are invaded at a 12 times higher rate compared to worker brood cells. A qualitative or quantitative chemical difference may explain the yet unexplained part of the higher invasion rate into drone brood cells. yours, Johan Calis Johan.Calis@medew.ento.wau.nl Wageningen Agricultural University The Netherlands ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 08:37:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Northeast Observation Hives ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey + + Beekeeper 10 years with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: rjl7317@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I am involved in wintering observation hives on Long Island, NY, USA. At two sites, I put a double wide (two frames) observation hive in place of the summer hive (one frame thick). These are three frames high. The queen is not as visable but the overwintering is much better. Two other hives are overwintered in the single wide observation hive. One is three deep and one shallow high and the other is one deep and a shallow. These require heavy feeding with some pollen substitute added to the syrup. Both are covered with insulation panels (styrafoam) at night to help them maintain temperature. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 08:54:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Myron Van de Ven Subject: Re: really really basic question about queens To: Jack the B-Man How do you accomplish that without your bees swarming? Or does that not take place? Do you simply let supercedure take it's course. I can't determine whether my bees want to supercede or swarm. Any advice? While I'm at it I have another problem. I only have two hives, In one hive I had left the top access hole ope this summer thinking the bees will have more direct access to the supers. It appears I now have a queen in the brood chamber and one above in the supers. What should I do to correct the situation. If the old queen is below the excluder, should I simply remove the excluder and let them fight it out, or should I locate one of the queens and destroy it? (Which one) . I don't know how I got into this, but I must have let the queen originally get into the supers when I took the hive apart because I notices some brood in the honey supers. I then got the queen back down but the bees may have raised a queen above. I'm learning and am in only my second year so can use the help. Thanks Myron Van de Ven Luxemburg, Wisconsin vandevem@uwgb.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 08:55:00 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: dextrose In-Reply-To: from "Adrian Wenner" at Aug 11, 95 08:46:30 am Adrian: Thanks for the response. Funny, we placed glucose in the feeders in the yard where we train bees to the feeders and they gobbled the glucose like it was the best stuff they had found - any comments? Jerry jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 11:10:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Varroa Mites brood invasion rate >The higher rate of brood cell invasion into drone cells by Varroa mites can >partly be explained mechanically. When you consider that a mite has to be >brought by a bee to a suitable brood cell, the almost two times bigger area >of the drone brood cell will attribute to this higher rate. Moreover, drone >cells are already invaded from more than two days before the brood cells are >capped, while worker brood cells are invaded from about 1/2 a day before >capping. In this way a higher drone brood cell invasion rate of about 8 times >can be expected. However, drone brood cells are invaded at a 12 times higher >rate compared to worker brood cells. A qualitative or quantitative chemical >difference may explain the yet unexplained part of the higher invasion rate >into drone brood cells. > Would it be practical if a company would make an all plastic frame with drawn foundation that say 1/2 of it was worker cells and the other half was drone cells and the drone cell part was removable. Put one of these frames in a hive to encourage the queen to lay most of her drones in these removable cells. Once they are capped they could be popped out and "sterilized". I realize this would be impractical for large scale operations but it might work for the hobbist and small scale operations. God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 08:33:57 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: dextrose Hi, Jerry, >Thanks for the response. Funny, we placed glucose in the feeders in the >yard where we train bees to the feeders and they gobbled the glucose like >it was the best stuff they had found - any comments? Jerry Sorry, I have no answer to that one, except that one must first attend to what Nature reveals --- as in your experience --- rather than rely on theory or experts! Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 12:38:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Brown Subject: Moisture Content I extracted some honey this weekend that had a 19.4 moisture level using a friend's refractometer. Question: What are accetable levels of moisture and what can be done to lower the level after extracting? Question: What are some of the problems with high moisture honey? Thanks, David N. Brown Blue Springs, Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 12:42:04 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Moisture Content In-Reply-To: <199508151738.AA27085@tyrell.net> On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, David Brown wrote: > I extracted some honey this weekend that had a 19.4 moisture level using a > friend's refractometer. > > Question: What are accetable levels of moisture and what can be done to lower > the level after extracting? For unpasteurised honey it is 17.8%. Drier is better down to about 16%. > Question: What are some of the problems with high moisture honey? It will sooner or later ferment if stored at room temperature. Store it in as freezer - if you have room - until you need it or blend it with drier honey. You can also pasteurise it by heating it to 125 degrees F for 6 hours or 160 degrees F for a few minutes. Thin honey will run off your toast, but it is the world's best pancake syrup. We thin some out and keep it in the fridge like maple syrup. Fermentation in wet honey (19%) takes some time, because special sugar tolerant yeasts (which are everywhere) must start the process. It won't happen overnight, but shelf life will be likely less than one year. Whenever we have some - occasionally up to 20% in a wet week, we send it to the packer - marked specially so they will use it soon- and they use it to blend with overly dry honey to arrive at the ideal moisture for store packs. One trick to avoid wet honey is to pull boxes in the morning - not in the afternoon or evening on the day of a heavy flow - or when the flow has tapered off. In some (damp) areas, one must wait until the cells are capped. This is not the case here. We extract often with cells 75% or more uncapped and still usually have honey in the 16% range. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 00:17:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Mysterious Nuc deaths Hello Fellow Beekeepers, I'm a hobbyist with 6 hives in SE Pennsylvania. This spring I tried queen rearing by the Doolitle method and was successful in setting up 5 four frame Nucs and an observation hive. The queens mated and started laying good brood patterns. Very satisfying. I had planned to use these queens for a fall requeening. Four of my six main hives had a great spring and there was a good honey flow. This area of PA was hit very hard last year with Verroa mites. I robbed my colonies earlier than usual in mid-June, so that I could treat them with Apistan strips. I inspected them for Verroa and found a number in the drone brood cells. I put the strips in all hives and Nucs in early July. In mid-July, we started a heat wave that lasted three weeks with a small break, and now seems to be back again. In the last week or so the Nucs have been dying or absconding. In two cases, there were no bees and abandoned brood. In two others, there was a massive die off, with 90% dead bees on the bottom board. Yesterday, I found a Nuc queen balled, trying to enter an adjacent hive. Can anyone suggest a cause for this dissappointing turn of events? Is this the mysterious PMS (parasitic mite syndrome)? Is the honey dearth causing robbing (not obvious), or are the Nucs starving? Is it heat related combined with the Apistan strips? The large colonies have gigantic bee beards at night. Thanks for any feedback. Tom Hochheimer 520 Saybrooke lane Downingtown, PA 19335 THOCHHEIMER@delphi.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 07:36:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James D. Satterfield" Subject: Making foundation I posted a message some time ago related to making foundation. I appreciate the respose I got very much. I seem to be able to get the thin sheets of wax that I need by dipping a piece of glasss into melted wax. One dip gives the desired thickness if the wax is only a little above melting temperature. I put the glass in ice water before dipping, dip it, then put it back in the ice for chilling. I can then usually get the sheet to separate from the glass. It would seem to work better if I dipped the glass into some solution that would aid the release of the wax sheet from the glass. I'm thinking about trying a weak solution of soap or perhaps a dishwashing detergent. I'm a little concerned about trying any type of silicone release agent. If any of you have found a good release agent, I'd like to hear from you. Perhaps a hardwood board soaked in water would be a better choice than glass. I know that I'd be able to get a good release then! Many thanks for your viewpoints and experience. Cordially, Jim ----------------------------------------------------- | James D.Satterfield | jsatt@gsu.edu or | | P.O. Box 2243 | biojdsx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu | | Decatur, GA 30031 USA | Telephone 404 378-8917 | ----------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 08:54:08 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/08/16 09:01 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re: Making foundation I've never tried this, but how about Pam (tm) vegetable shortening spray? It's food grade, and should interfere with the wax bonding to the glass. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Making foundation From: SMTP.BEEL1 at ROHMAIL Date: 8/16/95 7:38 AM [deletions] > I put the glass in ice water before dipping, dip it, then put it back in > the ice for chilling. I can then usually get the sheet to separate from > the glass. It would seem to work better if I dipped the glass into some > solution that would aid the release of the wax sheet from the glass. I'm > thinking about trying a weak solution of soap or perhaps a dishwashing > detergent. I'm a little concerned about trying any type of silicone > release agent. [deletions] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:18:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: OB Hive Comments: cc: fkovac@CapAccess.org, br0005@epfl2.epflbalto.org, jr0002@epfl2.epflbalto.org email via ASCII 15aug95 0800 About Observations Hives 1. My OB is two deep frames high, one deep-frame wide and has a permanent spot in my living room attached to a 1-1/2- inch galvanized exit pipe going thru my interior plaster wall and exterior yellow brick wall. It's 4 feet above floor level and normally can be rotated 360o. 2. It was built at least 15 years ago, has Lexan (plastic) sides, two-inch air vents, one on each side and one at the top, plus a single feeder hole at the top. 3. A sliding metal at the base, when in locked closed position, permits easy removal from its base and makes it portable for display purposes elsewhere, such as at fairs and flea markets, but always properly shaded. It has add-on feet for stability. 3. When used (was discontinued w/ advent of tracheal mite about seven years ago when I lost 20 of 24 colonies), it always had white styrofoam sides in place and always carried a one pint feeder, of pure honey (not a sugar syrup), at the top. (The foam sides, kept on 24 hours, were only removed when viewing was desirable.) 4. It almost always made it thru every Maryland winter (10 miles W of Balto and 60 minutes N of La Casa Blanca.) 5. In my experience, such a hive MUST be at least 2 deeps high--2 deeps wide sounds like a good idea but the whole purpose of the device would be instantly defeated. 6. One year I spotted a wax worm, took the OB hive outside in the sun and used a magnifying glass, properly focused, to roast the creature to smitherns! Jack the B-man B-keeper for 35 consecutive years at the same location with never more than 30 hives but today just 24, four 2 many for a man who calls himself a "hobbyist." ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:41:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: OB Hive Bis Comments: cc: fkovac@CapAccess.org, br0005@epfl2.epflbalto.org, jr0002@epfl2.epflbalto.org email via ASCII 16aug95 0800 About Observation Hives (ObH) CORRECTED COPY 1. My black-walnut ObH is two deep frames high, one frame wide and has a permanent spot in my living room attached to a 1-1/2- inch galvanized exit pipe going thru my interior plaster wall and exterior yellow brick wall. It's 4 feet above floor level and normally can be rotated 360o. 2. It was built at least 15 years ago, has Lexan (plastic) sides, two-inch air vents, one on each side and one at the top, plus a single feeder hole at the top. A movable top permits sliding out the plastics, upwards, for frame insertion. The top corners have box joints, held together w/ a dowel pin (not hinges or screws), which, when pushed out, makes top member EASILY removable. 3. A sliding metal at the base, when in locked closed position, permits easy removal from its base and makes it portable for display purposes elsewhere, such as at fairs and flea markets, but always properly shaded. It has add-on feet for stability. 3. When used (was discontinued w/ advent of tracheal mite about seven years ago when I lost 20 of 24 colonies), it always had white styrofoam sides in place and always carried a one pint feeder, of pure honey (not a sugar syrup), at the top. (The foam sides, kept on 24 hours, were only removed when viewing was desirable.) 4. It almost always made it thru every Maryland winter (10 miles W of Balto and 60 minutes N of La Casa Blanca.) 5. In my experience, such a hive MUST be at least 2 deeps high--2 deeps wide sounds like a good idea but the whole purpose of the device would be instantly defeated. 6. One year I spotted a wax worm, took the ObH outside into the sun and used a magnifying glass, properly focused, to dispatch the intruder to where all ?bad? insects go. Jack the B-man B-keeper for 35 consecutive years at the same location with never more than 30 hives but today just 24, twenty too many for a man who calls himself a "hobbyist." ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:49:45 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Comb Granulation In-Reply-To: On Wed, 16 Aug 1995 rberean@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote: > I'm sure you must have encountered the problem facing me. I only > keep about 50 hives near Edmonton and have had them 7 years. > They usually produce at least 250 # per hive but this year will > be another story. > We've had very cool wet weather for the last 4 weeks and I > didn't get some of the earlier honey off until yesterday. > Unfortunately, there's canola all around this area and now I > have a considerable amount of granulated honey in some of the > cells. It's not real solid but won't extract the way it is. > Is it possible to heat supers enough to get the honey to > liquefy for extraction or will the wax be destroyed first ? > Do you know of any other way to deal with this problem? Well, I've tried it and it isn't worth the effort. When we encounter such, we just uncap deep and extract what we can and place the extracted boxes back on the hive if there is still time. We are seeing some solid cells on many combs this year too, and a few blow up in the extractor, but it's not as bad as if we had left things too long. Sometimes the extractor has to be slowed. A radial isn't as good as a tangental type for these combs. if you place a box of extracted granulation uncapped right above the brood nest while there are still flows possible, the honey may well be liquefied quickly and should then be removed for extracting. Some people put boxes of granulation under the brood nest in the fall. At that time the bees will empty the combs and move the honey up. Leaving the boxes out for robbing can work too - if the granulation isn't too severe and hard. If they combs are good brood combs, they can be used judiciously in new brood nests for splits or inserted one at a time into the middle of a brood chamber where they are (usually) cleaned out in a day. As for us, we usually just save the combs til the next year - putting one or two in each super near the middle and super early. That way it is no extra work, and the problem disappears next season. Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:09:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian K. Cooley" Subject: Re: Making foundation In-Reply-To: Brian K. Cooley Environmental Consulting & Biological Services 1899 El Centro Drive Columbia, Missouri 65201 email: bcooley@mail.coin.missouri.edu phone: 314-474-3941 > If any of you have found a good release agent, I'd like to hear from > you. Perhaps a hardwood board soaked in water would be a better choice > than glass. I know that I'd be able to get a good release then! > You might try coating the glass with a thin layer of stearic acid before you dip. It might be hit and miss before you get it down right. It is usually used more as an internal mold release and incorporated into limestone fillers for the plastics industry. A very small dusting will work if it is going to work for you. The only mold release I ever used on glass would be carnuba wax or some type of car polish. But you might look into other various fatty acids. There is an acid that I am trying to think of right now that is similar chemically to stearic acid but it is missing two hydrogen atoms. It is a liquid at room temperature and you might get better uniformity in your coating from this. I will try to find the name and get it to you. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:11:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian K. Cooley" Subject: Re: Making foundation In-Reply-To: Actually I just remembered. Stearic acid is a liquid at room temperature and calcium stearate is a powder which is what I was actually describing when I said stearic acid. Sorry! Brian K. Cooley Environmental Consulting & Biological Services 1899 El Centro Drive Columbia, Missouri 65201 email: bcooley@mail.coin.missouri.edu phone: 314-474-3941 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:01:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Downey Subject: Bee stings revisited A couple of weeks ago I posted a message concerning bee stings. At the time, I had gotten stung on my hand, swelled up, rings had to be cut off, and it itched for a few days. Concensus was that I was not allergic since I hadn't had some of the more severe reactions. Yesterday evening, I got stung on my upper leg, inner, above the knee. The area is now red, swollen, itchy and warm. The red, swollen area is the size of almost two of my hands. I think part of the stinger may have still been in it this morning. I removed something small, followed by a very small white discharge or object this morning. Last year I was stung on both the head and neck with very little swelling and itching. Can someone develop an intolerance to bee venom after time? Should I go to the doctor and be tested for bee venom allergies? Someone I know says that he became severely allergic to bee venom over time - first a small reaction, then a subsequent sting or stings sent him to the hospital. Help, please! Laura Downey (CORVI29@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 07:25:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey P. Murray" Subject: Re: Bee stings revisited In-Reply-To: <950816180123_76399072@aol.com> (message from Laura Downey on Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:01:24 -0400) > Last year I was stung on both the head and neck with very little swelling >and itching. Can someone develop an intolerance to bee venom after time? > Should I go to the doctor and be tested for bee venom allergies? Someone I >know says that he became severely allergic to bee venom over time - first a >small reaction, then a subsequent sting or stings sent him to the hospital. > Help, please! > >Laura Downey >(CORVI29@aol.com) > Laura, PLEASE go to a doctor and get tested. The literature is rife with reports of beekeepers who originally had minor reactions to mellifera stings, but who subsequently developed allergies. In general, they are treatable with a series of desensitizing shots, plus you will need to subsequently keep an epi-pen with you at all times. The latter is no big deal. It is a self-injecting device that you can use to give yourself a dose of benedryl by pressing it against your thigh, and a child can use one. If you get a sting, and if you are severely allergic (as my brother is), you must get an antihistamine into your bloodstream within about 10 minutes to prevent a serious reaction; taking benadryl by mouth delivers the dose only after about 20 minutes, which is why the epi-pen is needed. You may or may not be allergic, but you now CERTAINLY have ample reason to be concerned. DO NOT rely on fellow beekeepers to diagnose you...GO TO AN ALLERGIST! You may not like the results, but all of us on the net would like you to be alive to tell about it. If you're not allergic, at least you'll know; if you are, you will then be in a position to do something about it. There are few enough beekeepers around as it is; don't take chances with something that is so easy to prevent. Keep us informed. Regards, Jeef ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:00:31 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Logan Vanleigh Subject: Re: Making foundation My thoughts. How about a cutting board for the 'sheet maker'? They tend to be dense wood and very smooth. The Sep/Oct 1995 'Countryside' has an article about making a 'foundation press'. I haven't read it yet, just skimmed. Looks a lot like the discussions here a few months back. To be honest (engineer's opinion here) I like the sheet idea a lot. Forget the molten wax in a press. Make sheets then impress the pattern in them using the press warmed to the wax softening point. Logan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 07:38:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Myron Van de Ven Subject: Two Queens in One Hive? I am a second year hobbyist with two hives. Early this summer the queen in one hive got above the queen excluder by mistake and laid some brrod in the upper chamber. I got her back down. Last time I opened the hive I noticed that new brrod was being laid both above and below the hive. Since it has been several months since the queen was moved below, is it possible that I have two queens in my hive. I have left the upper fly hole open this summer because the hive was very active. What should I do if there are two queens in the hive. Should I remove the excluder and let them fight it out? The older queen is in the brood chamber and is now beginning its second fall. Should she be replaced? Since fall is now approaching is there still time for requeening. The goldenrod flow is still to start here in Wisconsin. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks Myron Van de Ven Luxemburg, Wisconsin Vandevem@uwgb.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:46:08 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/08/17 08:51 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re: Bee stings revisited > Last year I was stung on both the head and neck with very little swelling > and itching. Can someone develop an intolerance to bee venom after time? > Should I go to the doctor and be tested for bee venom allergies? Typically one must be exposed to the allergen (the bee venom) before the allergy develops, and frequently several exposures are required to develop the full allergic reaction. So the answer to both your questions is: Yes. You may well be developing an allergy to bee venom, and it seems a good idea to me to check with an allergist, who may well be able to head off the allergy before it progresses further. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:06:02 -0400 Reply-To: aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin R. Palm" Subject: Missing BEE-L Digest 15-16 Aug 1995 Hello all! Once again, my mail server has messed up and I missed the BEE-L Digest for 15 Aug to 16 Aug 1995. Could some kind soul email a copy to me? I'd greatly appreciate it! With thanks, Kevin Palm -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin R. Palm aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 09:08:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Stoops Subject: Re: Making foundation In-Reply-To: James, I know that your were concerned about silicone release agents, but you might think about RAIN-X, an auto windshied product that you can get at WalMart or possibly at K-Mart. You might see how that works on a trial basis. Wouldn't know how to go about testing for the presence of silicone in the resulting wax product however, without resorting to an expensive lab analysis. MIKE On Wed, 16 Aug 1995, James D. Satterfield wrote: > I posted a message some time ago related to making foundation. I > appreciate the respose I got very much. > > I seem to be able to get the thin sheets of wax that I need by dipping a > piece of glasss into melted wax. One dip gives the desired thickness if > the wax is only a little above melting temperature. > > I put the glass in ice water before dipping, dip it, then put it back in > the ice for chilling. I can then usually get the sheet to separate from > the glass. It would seem to work better if I dipped the glass into some > solution that would aid the release of the wax sheet from the glass. I'm > thinking about trying a weak solution of soap or perhaps a dishwashing > detergent. I'm a little concerned about trying any type of silicone > release agent. > > If any of you have found a good release agent, I'd like to hear from > you. Perhaps a hardwood board soaked in water would be a better choice > than glass. I know that I'd be able to get a good release then! > > Many thanks for your viewpoints and experience. > > Cordially, > > Jim > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > | James D.Satterfield | jsatt@gsu.edu or | > | P.O. Box 2243 | biojdsx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu | > | Decatur, GA 30031 USA | Telephone 404 378-8917 | > ----------------------------------------------------- > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 17:49:41 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: bee removal Comments: To: LUTTON@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu, listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu Lars , The CO2 treatment is a trick we used in the Navy to cool down beer ( we were stuck on Cuba for two months with no icebox ) and in this application it's designed so as to 1) freeze the bees and/or 2) sofocate them . If you hit the NUC with one dirrect blast for about 3 seconds , the majority of the colony will die . After you blast them , spary them lightly with water ( standard house plant spray bottle ) . If you can't access the dirrectly , calculate 1 pound of CO2 bottle for every 1 cubic meter of air space ( 10 cu.meters of air requires a standard 10 pound bottle ) . That should displace enough air to suffocate them . Keep in mind , if you have to suffocte them , make real sure that no cats , mice , pigeons or other critters have nested in the attic . Things can get real stinky otherwise . I'm getting some data together for you concerning your COOP honey barn . I'll send it latter this week . Best regards , PS : Bee-Go smell's REAL STONG ( ie. The dead cat smells better ) . Be reluctant to use it in a domestic house situation especially with childeren present . Marion L.Bristow - Jefe , Seccion Informatica Agriculture Sciences Campus Universidad de Concepcion , Campus Chillan Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 07:47:16 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Casey Burns Subject: Epi-Pen In-Reply-To: <199508171125.HAA21009@acmex.gatech.edu> Jeffrey, The epinephrine pen delivers Epinephrine, an adrenalin - NOT benadryl, an antihistamine. It should ONLY be used in life threatening situations, and should be injected into the thigh (outer side), avoiding any veins. If you get this stuff in your veins, it can cause cerebral hemmorage. Use of it should always be followed by prompt emergency medical care as well, since it can race the heart into a cardiac arrest. Hardly safe for a child to use! This is all according to the literature that came with mine. Be careful, Casey Burns ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 11:48:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Two Queens in One Hive? In The Hive and the Honey Bee, amongst other books, there is literature on having two queens in one hive to increase production. If there is enought food for the additionad brood/bees you may consider leaving things as they are. God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:57:36 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: Two Queens in One Hive? when winter hits and the bees cluster to keep warm, you will have two clusters, one above and the other below the excluder. they may also overlap. make sure there is enough food in the hive near the cluster(s) or else they will all starve. john ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:27:38 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Making foundation In-Reply-To: On Wed, 16 Aug 1995, James D. Satterfield wrote: > I posted a message some time ago related to making foundation. I > appreciate the respose I got very much. > > I seem to be able to get the thin sheets of wax that I need by dipping a > piece of glasss into melted wax. One dip gives the desired thickness if > the wax is only a little above melting temperature. I heard of a guy who dips computer listing paper which he then presses into foundation complete with the paper. He says it saves him wiring his frames. I haven't tried it myself. Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:23:46 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Comb Granulation In-Reply-To: > > We've had very cool wet weather for the last 4 weeks and I > > didn't get some of the earlier honey off until yesterday. > > Unfortunately, there's canola all around this area and now I > > have a considerable amount of granulated honey in some of the > > cells. It's not real solid but won't extract the way it is. There's a pretty high risk of comb collapse with this method and that can be _very_ messy! FWIW, I cut the comb from the frames leaving just enough at the top to start the bees off rebuilding, then I put all the comb in food grade buckets in my warming cabinet set to about 50C. Everything collapses under control and I can skim the top and filter as I want. > Leaving the boxes out for robbing can work too - if the granulation isn't > too severe and hard. I'm not too happy with that approach. It can be a very efficient way to spread diseases. Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 07:11:42 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- Dept. of Agriculture" Subject: Re: Bee stings revisited In-Reply-To: <199508171125.HAA21009@acmex.gatech.edu> On Thu, 17 Aug 1995, Jeffrey P. Murray wrote: > ...The literature is rife with > reports of beekeepers who originally had minor reactions to mellifera > stings, but who subsequently developed allergies. In general, they > are treatable with a series of desensitizing shots, plus you will need > to subsequently keep an epi-pen with you at all times. The latter is > no big deal. It is a self-injecting device that you can use to give > yourself a dose of benedryl by pressing it against your thigh... > and if you are severely > allergic (as my brother is), you must get an antihistamine into your > bloodstream within about 10 minutes to prevent a serious reaction.... > > Regards, > > Jeef > To clarify the situation a bit, the "epi" in epi-pen, I believe, stands for the epinephrine (a synthetic form of adrenaline or adrenaline analog?) it contains. It is this substance that brings the blood pressure back into the normal range in one who has gone into anaphylactic shock. Antihistimines will help in a milder allergic reaction, such as one causing hives. I've experienced anaphylaxis, and it aint no fun. But the epinephrine really works, and brings you around in minutes. Tom ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 17:28:52 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Bee stings revisited In-Reply-To: <199508171125.HAA21009@acmex.gatech.edu> > > Last year I was stung on both the head and neck with very little swelling > >and itching. Can someone develop an intolerance to bee venom after time? > > Should I go to the doctor and be tested for bee venom allergies? Someone I > >know says that he became severely allergic to bee venom over time - first a > >small reaction, then a subsequent sting or stings sent him to the hospital. > > Help, please! > > > >Laura Downey > >(CORVI29@aol.com) > > PLEASE go to a doctor and get tested. The literature is rife with > reports of beekeepers who originally had minor reactions to mellifera > stings, but who subsequently developed allergies. In general, they > are treatable with a series of desensitizing shots, plus you will need > to subsequently keep an epi-pen with you at all times. Hi, However, don't be *too* alarmed. Many people swell up quite badly for their first few stings, and very worrying it seems too (I know ;-). Usually the rection starts to go away again after a while. Note that some doctors get confused over what is and what is not an alergic reaction. It's best to talk with a doctor who knows the subject. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 13:00:23 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Bee stings revisited > > > Last year I was stung on both the head and neck with very little swelling > > >and itching. Can someone develop an intolerance to bee venom after time? > > > Should I go to the doctor and be tested for bee venom allergies? Someone I > > >know says that he became severely allergic to bee venom over time - first a > > >small reaction, then a subsequent sting or stings sent him to the hospital. > > > Help, please! > However, don't be *too* alarmed. Many people swell up quite badly for > their first few stings, and very worrying it seems too (I know ;-). > Usually the rection starts to go away again after a while. > > Note that some doctors get confused over what is and what is not an > alergic reaction. It's best to talk with a doctor who knows the subject. I couldn't agree more and I am really glad someone said it so well. Even beekeepers of twenty years or more swell a bit with the first stings of the year or on parts where they are seldom stung. Swelling is entirely normal. Unfortunately even some doctors don't know that. (There is so much to know). I had a young friend who liked to help me move hives at night many years ago. He swelled so badly sometimes that he couldn't hold a pen to write at school the next day ;) Darn! Anyhow, allergies can and do happen, but unless you are seeing the more typical symptoms of allergy, ie. breathing difficulty, nausea, swelling or hives at a site that was not adjacent to the sting (eg. foot swells when stung on hand), unease, panic and unreasonable emotional disturbance, etc., there is likely no real concern. If you think you are becoming allergic, you must consider how close to medical help you are. In extreme cases death can occur in 10 minutes, however this is extreme and quite unusual. An epi-pen or benadryl can help relieve the symptoms temporarily, but there is no substitute for seasoned and experienced medical attention. There are hazards in the inexperienced using either that may exceed the real or imagined dangers of the sting itself. My understanding is that allergic reactions, while alaming, are not usually fatal even without treatment, *but* who wants to find out if he is the one. When our son showed signs of allergy, we drove to the hospital and - being ever frugal - sat outside to see what occurred. The symptoms subsided and we left. Later he was stung again and the scary reactions naturally diminished to the point where he is now a beekkeeper! Beekeepers be stung regularly to avoid developing allergy. I think we need a FAQ on this. Volunteers? Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta, Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey, Futures,and Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 15:22:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Mentzer Subject: Average # bee stings I have been watching this list for a time now - hoping to get into beekeeping next spring. My fascination with bees came about 3 years ago when I was living in a second floor apartment of a two story home. Some bees had decided to nest in the walls and between the ceiling and roof in my bedroom. I would hear them and swore they were getting louder and louder. I asked the owner of the building to do something about them, and he ignored me, so I tried to ignore them. Finally one day I came home, went into the bedroom and was introduced face to face with a couple of hundred bees - they had torn out a patch in my ceiling and seeing the light from the nearby window had come on in (I assume it was the light since the entire window was covered). After my initial shock I calmed myself down and actually just sat there watching them. Don't know if it was an act of a higher being, but didn't even get stung. Story comes to a sad ending though - a exterminator was brought in and he took care of him. I moved out shortly after that, but reading recent threads has made me believe that it is probably likely that a whole new crew has probably moved in and made themselves at home. O.K. I'll stop wasting my breath now. The point of this message was to ask a question. In the past week I have seen several references to a survey done that stated that the average beekeeper gets stung 500 times a year. Anyone want to verify this or laugh at it? I forget what the study was, but I do remember the little fact popping up on the headline news. I saw it somewhere else as well but can't remember where right now. Not that this is going to discourage me from getting into beekeeping (I'll just look for a kinder and gentler colony :) ). Kevin KMentzer@bgc.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 16:39:42 -0400 Reply-To: rawells@bconnex.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robin Wells Subject: Re: Average # bee stings It would depend upon the number of coloneys you own, what you are doing to them, and how you are dressed. Typically I can go several days without a sting, but that is only because whenever I am doing something as severe as splitting hives, etc.. I suit up fully with additional layers of clothing underneath. I have been stung once through a glove though, as well as other places through clothing. If you have enough layers of clothing on they are not able to penetrate. If I am just adding syrup to the inner feeders then I typically will not suit up, and in many cases not even place a veil on. As for number of stings, I still get stung perhaps fifty to one hundred times a year. Some days it is almost unbearable with the clothes on in the summer, and I imagine anybody living in the south simply could not do this. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robin Wells rawells@bconnex.net Barrie, Ontario, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 13:13:45 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Average # of bee stings I don't think that average means much for cases like this. I probably get around 10 stings per year, BUT. . . Learning to handle the bees smoothly and confidently makes all the difference. Individual genetics of your particular bees makes a lot of difference. What has been going on around the hive makes a lot of difference. I use no protection from stings, but do use smoke. I believe learning to use a smoker is one of the most important things a "hobby" beekeeper can do. Even then the stings I get are usually due to some less than bright thing I did. Of course I live in coastal Alaska. Temperatures are more moderate than mast other places. I have never kept bees in hot weather. As part of our local associations "Young Beekeepers" program, I worked with a high school age boy who was interested in bees (also almost every other animal you might think of). One day we found his bees were extremely testy. He had set up a jury-rigged entrance feeder which was open to other critters on the outside of the hive. Bumble Bees and yellow jackets had found it and were also helping themselves to what was inside the hive. I had him get rid of the mess and in a couple weeks everything was back to its mellow norm. I do know that I have had very mellow bees from a shipment that many others claimed were pretty agressive. A lot still depends on the attitude and skill of the beekeeper. If you can find a long time hobbiest who does not use veil, suit and gloves you can learn a lot. Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska P.S. My experience is that unless you are working more than a couple hives it is better to clean off propolis than to use gloves. Almost all beekeepers, in my admittedly modest experience, who use gloves had at best testy bees. Enjoy your bees ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 20:42:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joseph Cooper Subject: Re: Making foundation (Releasing agent) In-Reply-To: I'd be interested to learn what happens if you use PAM (or some other food grade) spray as a releasing agent. The sticking point--so to speak--may have to do with whether the PAM will stay on the glass while the glass is immersed in the wax. Good luck ************************* * Joseph Cooper * * jcooper@infinet.com * ************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 22:00:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ga14 Subject: Re: Average # bee stings In-Reply-To: <03397030@bgc.com> > > In the past week I have seen several references to a survey done that > stated that the average beekeeper gets stung 500 times a year. Anyone > want to verify this or laugh at it? I forget what the study was, but > I do remember the little fact popping up on the headline news. I saw > it somewhere else as well but can't remember where right now. Not > that this is going to discourage me from getting into beekeeping (I'll > just look for a kinder and gentler colony :) ). > > Kevin > > KMentzer@bgc.com > Kevin, Welcome to Beekeeping! It is a hobby that rellly gets under your skin. Sorry about the pun. Seriously though, don't sweat the stings. I know hobbiest beekeepers who go an entire year without a sting, its not the norm but can be done with proper protective geer. Many experienced beekeepers don't wear gloves. The gloves are hot and cut down on dexterity in the hive, so many won't use them. To answer your question, I figure I get about 1 sting for every two colonies I open in the Spring and early Summer and about 1 per colony after the honey flow. What you need to do is to cantact a local beekeeping organization and sign up for their short course next spring and read as much as you can about hive management and bee behavior. If you can begin to understand the behavior of these critters, you can prevent stinging incidents before they occur. Also get yourself catalogs from the major suppliers and buy the protective equipment that will make you comfortable around the bees. Eventually, if you are like most beekeepers, you will start taking off some of the equipment once you are more at ease around the bees. Enjoy Gordy #################################### Gordon Allen-Wardell Extension Apiculturist Univeristy of Maryland College Park, MD 20742-5575 ga14@umail.umd.edu ##################################### ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 20:37:28 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Average # bee stings > In the past week I have seen several references to a survey > done that stated that the average beekeeper gets stung 500 > times a year. Anyone want to verify this or laugh at it? Beekeepers (professionals at least) don't think very much about bee stings - other than in the face - or on other non-involved people and objects. I don't know any serious beekeeper who could even estimate how many stings he has received in a year. Many days I don't get stung at all, even not wearing protection, but other days a hundred stings or more is not unusual. There are different degrees of stings - from 'nicks' to 'stabs'. The routine stings on the hand or wrist are pretty mild and generally ignored. Sometimes the bees are really ready to sting and those stings really hurt. At time like that careful smoking is in order - as much for passersby and livestock as for the beekeeper. Or the bees are best left alone. 500 stings wouldn't last me a week - some weeks. :) Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta, Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey, Futures,and Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 21:57:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bill fernihough Subject: Re: Two Queens in One Hive? to Myron Van de Ven uxemburg, Wisconsin Vandevem@uwgb.edu I have experienced the same thing. In fact if you want to increase the number of hives you have, this is a neat trick to do it. I suggest you put on a top opening, ie a bottom board turned upside down. In about a week or so you will see a transition of the bees using both entrances. When the top entrance has gained a reasonable following, slip a solid board bewteen the two queens, ie: where the queen excluder is now. You will then have two distinct hives. During the winter, move the top one to a new location. There you are a new hive, painlessly. Bill Fernihough HONEY is sweeter then wine. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 12:45:59 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lipovan Lucian Subject: Hi! I'm Luca from Romania! I want a pen pal so, if you are interresed write me! Tell your friends also to write to me! My adress is: LL23@linux1.litm.sfos.ro Hope to hear soon from you. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 09:06:56 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Hi! > I'm Luca from Romania! I want a pen pal so, if you are interresed write me! > Tell your friends also to write to me! > My adress is: LL23@linux1.litm.sfos.ro > Hope to hear soon from you. > My dear Luca, 1. Greetings from Ellicott City Maryland usa 15 km west of Balto and 45 km N of the White House. 2. U should tell your readers how many colonies of bees you have and how long you've been keeping them and what kind of honey U harvest (acacia?; we call it "black locust here). 3. For example, I have 24 hives in my backyard and have been an apiculturist for 35 consecutive years at one location and write for the American bee journals: AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL, BEE CULTURE, and SPEEDY BEE. Sbohom. Jack the B-man Fri 18aug95 1310Z ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:10:58 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Oliphant Subject: Beekeeping Merit Badge As both a hobby beekeeper and a scoutmaster, I've just learned that as of Sept. 1, 1995 the Boy Scouts of America no longer offers the Beekeeping merit badge. What a loss! There goes a lot of very good PR and method for interesting future beekeepers in the USA. I hope this is not a sign of a significant decline for the beekeeping industry and hobby in the US. I would have though that might have been salvaged by intrucing more of the polliation service aspects to the requirement of the badge, see http://www.hiwaay.net/hyper/Scouts/mbreq.cgi?28 for the list of requirements. Was the National organization aware that this was going to happen? I didn't hear anything about it until two days ago. I had hoped to help my scouts understand the interconnections of nature by working them through the beekeeping merit badge over the next 12 months. What a great loss to both the boys and the industry! -- Paul --------------------------------------------------------------- Applications Manager Computer-Aided Engineering Center email oliphant@engr.wisc.edu University of Wisconsin-Madison Voice 608/265-2637 1410 Johnson Drive, Room 188 FAX 606/265-4546 Madison, WI 53706-1691 --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 19:25:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Morris Subject: How many stings? >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 15:22:51 -0400 >From: Kevin Mentzer >Subject: Average # bee stings ... > In the past week I have seen several references to a survey done that > stated that the average beekeeper gets stung 500 times a year. Anyone > want to verify this or laugh at it? I forget what the study was, but > I do remember the little fact popping up on the headline news. I saw > it somewhere else as well but can't remember where right now. Not > that this is going to discourage me from getting into beekeeping (I'll > just look for a kinder and gentler colony :) ). > > Kevin > > KMentzer@bgc.com Kevin, The results you read about are from a decidely unscientific 'survey' done by a bee company as a promotion for a new honey beer. It was mailed to lots of beekeepers - I don't know where they got there list. It was just a promotional thing with no real statistical basis. Like others have said, the number of stings depend on the bees themselves, your skill, number of hives, how often you work them, etc. Hobbyist don't get stung that often, that's why there are so many practioners of a hobby with a decidely difficult side to it. With care, attention to what you and the bees are doing, and the ability to learn when the bees tell you not to do something, you shouldn't get many stings at all. Beekeeping is a lot of fun and bees are endlessly fascinating. Your friends and coworkers will either think you are crazy as a long or brave as a lion for doing this. Good luck. David Morris ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 1995 02:27:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moroney Subject: Re: Loosestrife update? In-Reply-To: <<950807.094810.EDT.SYSAM@ALBANY> > The date for comments has come and gone and nothing has been mentioned > since. Does anyone have an update? > > Aaron Morris - thinking quite a strife for no news! I just read something in Scientific American on an article regarding releasing a bug that eats melaleuca trees (an Australian plant that's ravaging Florida swamps) and they mentioned in passing that a bug that eats purple loosestrife _was_ released in 1992 and is only now barely showing effects. -Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 1995 08:17:20 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Employment opportunity wanted I have a young man working for me for the third season. He has decided to take a year off before returning to University and would be interested in doing some beekeeping while exploring another part of the world. He was thinking of Australia or New Zealand, thinking that the season would be opposite ours but would be interested in looking at opportunities elsewhere. The first step is to find out the time of the year during which employment might be possible. For those of you outside of North America, could you please give me an indication of any employment opportunities and the time of year in your area. For example, here in Northern Alberta in Canada, there is seasonal employement in the beekeeping industry from May through to August or September with extra help required during July and August. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 1995 14:30:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Boyd C Dickens Subject: Honey Quanity ? This was my first year of Honey Production and I averaged over 60 pounds of honey per super. I harvested three supers off of each hive around the first week of July and now have another super full on each hive, which means that I will end up with about 240 pounds of honey per hive. My question is this a good yield for my area ? I live in on the Maryland - Pennsylvania border. Any information would be helpful. Thanks, Boyd ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 1995 21:06:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: recipe for beeswax hand lotion anyone? I just visited the Indiana state fair, including the beekeepers exhibits, where I bought a small cake of beeswax. There were also huge cakes on sale, beautiful yellow ones. I use a lot of beeswax handlotion when I garden - the wax-based is much better than those petroleum-jelly-based hand creams, which soak into my gloves and make a mess. But the beeswax creams cost a LOT - $7-8 /small jar or tube, plus shipping from one of those gentrified garden companies. Yet the ingredients seem simple and cheap - one kind contains water, mineral oil, beeswax, borax; another lacks the borax but contains herb oils. SO: Does anyone have a recipe for making handlotion like this? Is it easy, or chancy? Thank you, Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 18:16:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Morris Subject: What kind of bee is this? While checking out my bees today, I pulled out the #1 frame in the brood chamber and on the outer side, I saw an unusual insect. This insect looked very much like a honeybee except that it was about 25% larger and had a fairly large, black, somewhat rounded, abdomen. Within a couple of seconds of pulling out the frame, it flew off. It flew more like a housefly than a bee; that is, its legs and abdomen were not noticably hanging down and it seemed to be faster. It was on a cell of nectar/honey; there was not brood on that side. I checked out "Honeybee Pest, Predators and Diseases" but didn't find anything that resembled this thing. Anyone have any suggestions? Geographically, I am located between Baltimore, MD and Washington D.C., USA. Any thoughts? Thanks, David Morris ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 22:09:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bill fernihough Subject: Re: What kind of bee is this? I can't give you an answer as we are in different parts and haven't got those insects you described here. However, I've lots of other things in my hives, so not surprised you have too. Slugs love to overwinter in a hive, and last night I was out watching the goings on and saw two big slugs heading into one of the hives. So, don't be surprised to find little friend visting. Bill Fernihough HONEY is sweeter then wine. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 08:54:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Observation hives - BIG I have been maintaining an observation hive for the local town's nature center. It has been a very popular exhibit. The director claims that it has been his _best_ exhibit. He asked me how to make it visible for much larger audiences. I remember reading about, and I think seeing a picture of, a multi-sided (5?) observation hive built in a gazebo in ?Alaska? some time ago. (?ABJ?) I dug through a stack of back issues but didn't find anything. Does anyone out there have additional info on it or similar large observation hives? Does someone know where I might have seen a short notice on this hive so I can track it down? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, VP LIBA + + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ . ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 09:53:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Yard agreements Does anyone have a sample yard agreement they could send? ... or has there been one in one of the old logs that I could be pointed to? Thanks in advance. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, VP LIBA + + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 10:27:44 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Wood Subject: Re: What kind of bee is this? In-Reply-To: <950820181223_59051503@emout04.mail.aol.com>; from "David Morris" at Aug 20, 95 6:16 pm don't you think it could be possible it's a drone from some other hive? Just a guess- Phil Wood ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 11:56:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MacFawn, Dave" Subject: Re: Observation hives - BIG Comments: To: Ray Lackey I just headed up a team that designed and built an observation hive for the Riverbanks Zoo here in Columbia, SC. We made it in the shape of a V with 4 deep frames on either side of the V with a shallow super on top of the V. The bees are very observable. We have a outer plexi glass "shield" or cover around the observation hive with a 45 degree exit tube going to the outside of the barn that the hive is in. The bees seem very happy in the observation hive. The only comment that I have is that next time I would have the sides or V vertex meet so the bees & queen can cross over easier. We have 4 tubes connecting the V sides with the entrance at the bottom of the V. Currently we placed pennies between the super and the top cover for venting...seems to be working fine. Sue White at Riverbanks Zoo is the contact here in Columbia, SC. She can send you some pictures that we made of the observation hive. Give me a call if you have any other questions. 803-939-7409 (WK) 803-957-8897 (HM) Dave MacFawn ---------- >From: Ray Lackey >To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L >Subject: Observation hives - BIG >Date: Monday, August 21, 1995 8:54AM > >Return-Path: > >Received: from ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM by msgate.ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM id > <30384D88@msgate.ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM>; Mon, 21 Aug 95 09:10:32 edt >Received: by ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM; 21 Aug 95 09:10:03 EDT >Received: by ncrhub4.ATTGIS.COM; 21 Aug 95 09:11:22 EDT >Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 21 Aug 95 09:01:29 EDT >Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with > BSMTP id 3570; Mon, 21 Aug 95 08:54:12 EDT >Received: from UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by > CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4903; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 > 08:54:05 -0400 >Received: from UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU by UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) > with NJE id 4131 for BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 08:54:00 > -0400 >Received: from CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@CUNYVMV2) by > CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4897; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 > 08:54:00 -0400 >Received: from CUNYVM (NJE origin SMTP5@CUNYVM) by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (LMail > V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1056; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 08:54:07 -0400 >Received: from hazeltine.com by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; > Mon, 21 Aug 95 08:54:06 EDT >Received: by hazeltine.com (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) id > AA176669642; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 08:54:02 -0400 >Message-ID: <199508211254.AA176669642@hazeltine.com> >Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 08:54:02 -0400 >Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Ray Lackey >Subject: Observation hives - BIG >To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >I have been maintaining an observation hive for the local town's nature >center. It has been a very popular exhibit. The director claims that >it has been his _best_ exhibit. He asked me how to make it visible for >much larger audiences. I remember reading about, and I think seeing a >picture of, a multi-sided (5?) observation hive built in a gazebo in >?Alaska? some time ago. (?ABJ?) I dug through a stack of back issues >but didn't find anything. Does anyone out there have additional info >on it or similar large observation hives? Does someone know where I >might have seen a short notice on this hive so I can track it down? > >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >+ Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, VP LIBA + >+ Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ >+ INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + >+ Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + >+ Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > . > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 11:57:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Myron Van de Ven Subject: FOULBROOD QUESTIONS MY FIRST ATTEMPT TO SEND THIS FAILED, SO I HOPE IT IS NOT A SECOND MESSAGE FOR SOME. I noticed a decreasing population in one of my two hives and upon inspection yesterday noticed many dead larva. From the descriptions in the bee book, I am assuming it must be foulbrood, although I can't possitively tell if it is Afb or EFB. The larva were rather large but still white. Some capped cells had been cracked open. The questions I have are: What do I need to do to tell for sure? Is there still something I can do, such as medicate, to treat the problem? If I have to destroy the hive, can I harvest the honey and use that? IF I want to send a samply to a lab, where can I send it? I have two hives and this is only my second year in this. Any help would be appreciated. Myron Van de Ven Luxemburg, Wisconsin vandevem@UWGB.edu --Boundary (ID BcnZt97t9roDC1UbF3iQ3g)-- ----- End forwarded message ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 15:13:48 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: FOULBROOD QUESTIONS Dear FB , Take a match stick , and gently poke one of the dieing larva . Withdraw your stick slowly . If the slimy material strings out ( like buble gum ) you have the American FB . Destroy the colony !!! If the slime starts to string , but breaks , you have European FB . Sprinkle justa touch of some wide sepctrum antibiotic ( amoxicilan ) over the top of the frames . Do this to both of your hives , and if you can salvage the colonies , do the antibiotic treatment every spring as a preventitive measure . Best of luck , Marion L.Bristow - Jefe , Seccion Informatica Agriculture Sciences Campus Universidad de Concepcion , Campus Chillan Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 14:53:19 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Fall is here (almost) What now? Comments: To: Tuckey Kenn , "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Well, fall is almost here and we are wondering what to do to assess our mite problem (if any). As you may recall, one trachael mite was found on some bees from the windows of our honey house last fall. Our wintering was the best ever; spring and summer were as good as one can expect from such a cool season here in Alberta. Now we are wondering what we should consider doing: Acarine is a definite possible Varroa is not yet here (as far as we know) The questions: What sampling should we be doing? (if any) What rate of sampling should we use? When should we sample? What methods should be used to evaluate the samples? We bought a microscope, and it is very educational, but I can see that we are not going to do all our own lab work and keep 1500 hives at the same time. Any advice for picking a sampling service? How thorough are they? Do they mix samples up? What should we be considering in making a decision? Hope that a few people can offer excperience and insights on this. TIA W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 08:04:26 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tish Silberbauer Subject: how to unsubscribe? Dear Net-folks, forgive me for posting this un-apis message, but how do I unsubscribe from this news group? Please reply to me, rather than to the group. Thanks, Letitia Silberbauer zoolxs@zoom.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 12:30:06 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Don Tinker Subject: Re: how to unsubscribe? Comments: cc: hilodon@lehua.ilhawaii.net At 08:04 AM 8/22/95 +1000, you wrote: >Dear Net-folks, forgive me for posting this un-apis message, but how do >I unsubscribe from this news group? > >Please reply to me, rather than to the group. > >Thanks, Letitia Silberbauer >zoolxs@zoom.latrobe.edu.au > > To unsubscribe, send the message "SIGNOFF BEE-L" TO THE FOLLOWING E-MAIL ADDRESS: listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu Aloha, Don Tinker (hilodon@ilhawaii.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 19:51:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Morris Subject: Membership Database Software I am looking for information on different software used by other associations (doesn't have to be beekeepers) for their mailing lists and membership databases. Our State Assoc uses Q&A ver 3. It is adequate, but it is time to say farewell to it. I am looking for software with the following features: 1) Avery labels already defined; 2) Windows compatible; 3) more than one sort field, more than one key field; 4) user definable fields, keys and retrievals; 5) easy to use (intuitive, simple, not traps, no hidden requirements); 6) prints postal bar codes. I use MS ACCESS for a membership database for another club, but would prefer a package for this use ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 19:52:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Morris Subject: End of Beekeeping Merit Badge [The following message will be sent to the beekeeping journals. However, it is very important that an immediate, written, response be made regarding the following. Please give give a copy of this mail to any club and association leader who is not a subscriber to BEE-L. Also notify Scout leaders and Boy Scouts who have, or are working on Beekeeping Merit Badge.] Today, August 21, I called the national headquarters for the Boy Scouts of America and confirmed that BEEKEEPING MERIT BADGE will be discontinued on September 1, 1995. Any Boy Scout who has begun the merit badge before that day has until his 18th birthday to complete it. There is a possibility of reversing this decision. Write a letter to: Mr. John Dalrymple, Director, Advancement/NESA Boy Scouts of America PO Box 152079 IRVING TX 75015-2079 Mr. Dalrymple was not in when I called so I cannot tell you much regarding the criteria used in selecting Beekeeping MB for cancellation. When I find out, I will post it. To all beekeepers, all association leaders, scouts who earned or are earning Beekeeping MB, and to the Scout leaders of those scouts, I urge you to write, explaining the value of this merit badge to you, what you are doing to help scouts achieve this MB and what you will do to keep it going. In the October, 1994, Bee Culture, Dr. Dewey Caron described the Delaware Beekeepers Association program to train Scouts in Beekeeping MB. Maryland State Beekeepers Assoc followed in their footsteps this year. ANY BEEKEEPING ASSOCIATION CAN DO THE SAME! You do not have to be big, or rich, or state-wide. If you offer a short or beginner's beekeeping course then you have what you need to teach the merit badge. This is what you need to do. Register as a beekeeping merit badge conselor with your local BSA Council. Go to the "Roundtable" meeting for the District(s) you can best work with and announce your program and invite the Scouts. Keep the cost down. Follow-up after the class by working with the Scouts to finish the requirements. The merit badge book does not specify that the Scout has to keep the bees himself. All this is moot if we cannot reverse this fatal decision. We must reverse this decision. Getting Scouts involved in beekeeping is one way of increase your membership by getting Scouts (and their parents) interested in beekeeping. Follow up on any scout who expresses interest in beekeeping. Help them along. A Scout might take this up as a hobby now, or later as an adult. Maryland's own extension apiculturist, Dr. Gordon Allen-Wardell, started with Beekeeping MB at age 14. He got Dr. George Ayers interested in bees and their forage plants. The ripples can go a long way. Girl Scouts can also qualify for Beekeeping merit badge as long as the Boy Scouts offer it. The Girl Scouts do not offer their own Beekeeping achievement badge, and when they do not offer an equivalent badge, they can work on the Boy Scout badge. Include them; don't overlook them. Again, don't hesitate. Pledge to hold a Beekeeping MB program next Spring. Write to Mr. Dalrymple and inform the BSA in Texas that you WILL do so. Let them know how important this is to us AND TO SCOUTING! LET'S NOT LOSE THIS, TOO! Sincerely yours, David Morris, President Maryland State Beekeepers Assoc. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 21:46:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: how to unsubscribe? > Dear Net-folks, forgive me for posting this un-apis message, but how do > I unsubscribe from this news group? > > Please reply to me, rather than to the group. > > Thanks, Letitia Silberbauer > zoolxs@zoom.latrobe.edu.au > Dear Tish, 1. When U find out, please forward me a copy, rather than thru the group. Thanks. 2. I sympathize w/ U and spend much time cancelling most of the messages unless I recognize the sender. 3. Good luck. ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org Jack the B-man ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 22:41:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Boyd C Dickens Subject: Bee Culture Does anyone have the 800 number or address so that I may subscribe to " Bee Culture" magazine ? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Boyd ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 00:35:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Making foundation > From: Gordon Scott > I heard of a guy who dips computer listing paper which he then presses > into foundation complete with the paper. He says it saves him wiring > his frames. I haven't tried it myself. Yeah, but how do the sheets go through the printer later? Don't the impact heads on the printer get all gummed up with the wax? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 00:46:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: FOULBROOD QUESTIONS Two obvious differences between American Foulbrood and European Foulbrood: Amercian Foulbrood: 1) The infected larvae normally die after the cell has been capped over. Look for concave brood cappings. They may be punctured and/or wet. 2) Dead brood will be "ropey". Poke a twig into some cells with concave cappings. If the twig, a thread of larva comes with it (sort of like a string of rubber cement), that is a considered a positive ID for American Foulbrood. Note that the twig test is done on capped larvae. European Foulbrood: 1) The infected larvae generally die young, hence they are not capped over by the workers. 2) You will not be able to pull a thread of dead larva with the twig test. The dead larva will normally come out of a cell in discreet pieces. The USDA-Beltsville lab will test comb for American Foulbrood. Send a piece of suspect brood comb about 3" x 5" to: U. S. Department of Agriculture Bee Research Laboratory Building 476, BARC-East Beltsville, MD 20705 Include in your cover letter that you suspect the sample has American Foulbrood. Expect an answer in about two weeks. If you have American Foulbrood, you should destroy the infected colony immediately. The Maryland custom is to destroy the colony on a positive "twig test", then send a comb sample to the USDA lab for confirmation. We also seal up all openings to the colony with duck tape; this includes joints between boxes. Bees must not get access to any equipment that is suspected of being contaminated with American Foulbrood. Hive tools may be disinfected by washing and cleaning; but disinfecting woodenware and combs requires special equipment. Your State Apiary Inspector (or other appropriate government agency) can tell you what is available in your area. Gloves can also be a problem. The American Foulbrood bacteria does not affect humans, but whether or not you can use the honey from the hive will depend on how the colony was destroyed. In Maryland, an insecticide is normally used which will require disposing of the honey on the colony. I just take the contaminated frames to the local landfill. If you extract the honey, remember that your extraction equipment will become contaminated and need to be disinfected. Treatment: European Foulbrood can be handled by ensuring your colonies have young, vigorous queens. Requeen if needed. American Foulbrood colonies are traditionally destroyed, as no treatment will completely eradicate the bacteria without also killing the bees. Some people use Terramycin powder as a control. If you elect to go that route, be aware that although Terramycin will kill the bacteria, it won't kill the bacteria's spores, and for all intents and purposes those spores have an inifinte "shelf life". Accordingly, once you start using Terramycin, you are stuck having to use it on all your colonies forevermore (or get your equipment properly decontaminated). Active AFB will reappear the instant you discontinue Terramycin. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 00:50:42 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Richard Foote, RBU, SFO, 415-598-5596" Organization: VeriFone Subject: Beeswax in hand lotions From: IN%"LAMichaels@aol.com" 21-AUG-1995 15:31:36.88 To: IN%"RICHARD_F1@sfov1.verifone.com" CC: Subj: RE: bee lotions Richard-- I know there's a way to send back messages using the threads you've been shipping to me, but I don't actually know how to do it. Maybe an online, e-mail session with you (watching how you do it) would be helpful. Anyway, a lady in one of the ones just today (which I've already read and lost) wanted to know if a hand lotion with beeswax in it would be difficult to make. Here's the answer: Beeswax is usually used as a binder in lotions and is not very often the ingredient that makes the lotion unique. Be that as it may be, this recipe for Moisturing Vitamin E Cream uses more wax than most and might be what you're looking for. It is from Jeanne Rose's "Herbal Body Book." <4 oz. olive oil, 3 Tablespn beeswax, 2 oz. Orange water, 5000 units vitamin E, 5 drops oil of Orange flower or Orange peel Melt the oil and the wax in the top of an enamel or glass double boiler, remove from heat, add your Orange water, and stir thoroughly. (you can get Orange water in the grocery store, or at health food stores or gourmet places) Pierce 10 capsules of 500 units of vitamin E and squeeze the contents into the cream. Add your essential oil and stir continuously until cool. This cream is very moisturizing and emollient. It is nice for rough, dry, or chapped complexions and should help promote healthy looking skin.> There are far more recipes for beauty products that use honey than I have found use beeswax, but I hope this serves. Angel Michaels LAMichaels@aol.com Return-path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by sfov1.verifone.com (PMDF V4.3-7 #5451) id <01HUC8W1ZPA8009TIJ@sfov1.verifone.com>; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 15:31:17 -1000 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzduo15582; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 18:31:47 -0400 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA27999 for RICHARD_F1@sfov1.verifone.com; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 18:29:19 -0400 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 18:29:19 -0400 From: LAMichaels@aol.com Subject: re: bee lotions To: RICHARD_F1@sfov1.verifone.com Message-id: <950821174559_59805259@mail02.mail.aol.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 00:51:17 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Richard Foote, RBU, SFO, 415-598-5596" Organization: VeriFone Subject: Re: Bee Culture Hi, Bee Culture Magazine 1 Year 16.50 (US), $30 2 years 1-800-289-7668 ext. 3220 Fax: (216) 725-5624 or e-mail BCULTURE@AOL.COM Good magazine - as a first year hoobyist, we enjoy it a lot. Regards, Angel & Richard -- novice apiarists (?) Richard_F1@VeriFone.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 07:32:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: Fall is here (almost) What now? In-Reply-To: from "Allen Dick" at Aug 21, 95 02:53:19 pm > Acarine is a definite possible > > Varroa is not yet here (as far as we know) > > > The questions: What sampling should we be doing? (if any) > What rate of sampling should we use? > When should we sample? > What methods should be used to evaluate the samples? > > > We bought a microscope, and it is very educational, but I can see that we > are not going to do all our own lab work and keep 1500 hives at the same > time. Any advice for picking a sampling service? > > How thorough are they? Do they mix samples up? What should we be > considering in making a decision? > Allen: I feel somewhat qualified to answer your question since my research is on Tmites. If you want to sample yourself, do so now, as the fall approaches. Take a sampling of your yards, ie. collect around 100-200 bees in each yard, drone and older foragers if possible, and dissect the tubes under the scope. You can do this very quickly, just get a pair of jeweler's forcept and pull off the head and look down into the thoracic tubes. IF the tubes are anything but pearly white, ie. tan, black or with shadows, you have Tmites. You probably do anyway, since you tested positive last year. Treat with TM patties (extender patties) or just veg shortening and sugar patties. I can send you my reprint of this work if you want. Hope this helps. Test for Varroa while you are at it. Good luck Diana Sammataro ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 06:36:15 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Fall is here (almost) What now? Comments: To: Diana Sammataro Diana, actually I was very much hoping to hear from you on this - along with a couple of local experts. Thanks for replying. This started out to be personal reply, but I can see how this would be of interesat to the list, and am replying to the list as well. > > Acarine is a definite possible > > > > Varroa is not yet here (as far as we know) > > > > > > The questions: What sampling should we be doing? (if any) > > What rate of sampling should we use? When should > > we sample? What methods should be used to evaluate > > the samples? > > > > How thorough are they? Do they mix samples up? What should we be > > considering in making a decision? > > > > > Allen: I feel somewhat qualified to answer your question since my > research is on Tmites. > If you want to sample yourself, do so now, > as the fall approaches. Take a sampling of your yards, ie. collect > around 100-200 bees in each yard, drone and older foragers if > possible, I hadn't heard about using drones. Interesting. Are they particularly susceptible? The number are important to us, because each sample represents time spent examining the sample. Commercial labs here charge $0.25 CAD per sample bee. 100 means $25/yard. 200 means $50/yard. We have 60 yards, so the difference means $1500! That is - if sent to a lab. Of course we can do them ourselves, but so far I have found it very slow. > and dissect the tubes under the scope. You can do this > very quickly, just get a pair of jeweler's forcept and pull off the > head and look down into the thoracic tubes. Well, maybe I'm not doing it right, but I've found it pretty slow. I used windsheild washer antifreeze - as recommended by the firm who did my sampling last year. The bees were pretty tough for the first few days and I had a bit of problem pulling them apart just right. >From what you say, I assume that you are saying just to look at the first set of trachea and ignore the rest? - Just look for *bad* cases? Maybe I'm being too fussy and it is slowing me down? I guess I should use ethanol or freezing. You recommended freezing last year, and I confess I havn't used it yet. The washer antifreeze didn't seem right to me, because the bees died very slowly - not like the instant death I would have expected in alcohol. Does freezing make them easier to pull apart correctly? Moreover - adding to my confusion - a friend - the fellow who showed me how, said that mild (beginning) infestations are often missed because the mites are right at the spiracle, so that added to my worries. > IF the tubes are > anything but pearly white, ie. tan, black or with shadows, you have > Tmites. You probably do anyway, since you tested positive last > year. I guess so, but I haven't found any. I sent samples to lab and I don't trust them. They only gave me a verbal report and only after I phoned them to find out what happened to my sample. > Treat with TM patties (extender patties) or just veg shortening and > sugar patties. I can send you my reprint of this work if you want. Yes, I've read it, thanks and you say to put them on year round. I guess I should. > Hope this helps. Yes. > Test for Varroa while you are at it. You recommended putting the samples for tracheal tests into a jar and freezing overnight, then rolling in the morning. The varroa, if any, would stick to the condensation on the jar and be seen - am I right? The bees then should be ready for pulling apart to look for acarine. I'm sorry to appear so dense about this - and I know this is easy once you've done it a few times - but the first time or two, one doesn't know what is important and what is not. If you find mites right away, like we did in the samples at my buddies place, then you know you're doing it right, but in my case, we pulled a bunch of bees apart and found nothing. I realise that is good, but not very rewarding from the point of view of proving the techniques are correct :( > Good luck > > Diana Sammataro > Thanks Diana, and I hope you can help me get over this learning stage, and in the process give some insight to others on the list. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 08:59:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: HoneyBeer ctd Comments: To: bcdickens@aol.com Friend, Part 2. System was going down: I had to evacuate in a hurry or lose everything. 1. For very detailed honeybeer recipe with fotos, see J. Iannuzzi, "How Beer Made Easy" (ABJ June 95 pp. 402 to 410 (that's American Bee Journal,m old English-lang bee mag in country, second oldest in universe). 2. It's subtitled: "For the 'bee- ginner' who wants a superior beverage at an inferior price, here's the step-by-step process." 3. To repeat: I know of onlyone commercial mead in Md.: Berrywine in Mt. Airy and of only one on Eastern seaboard: Betterbee in Greenwich NY. 4. For the teetotaler (sp?) like me, try honeypop. It's a winner. Have been making it for the past 15? years. Bonne chance. Cheers. Jack the B-man ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 15:20:47 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MORGAN, ANTHONY" Subject: Bees in Backcountry Hei! Message below seen in newsgroup rec.backcountry. Could they really have been honeybees? I've seen bumblebees out foraging both in terrible weather and up high (8000 feet anyway) but never honeybees. Observation of honeybees must be dependent upon both temperature and distance to the nearest hives, but do they have a height limit in addition? Any one have any ideas? >From: Bob Webster >Subject: Re: Bees in Backcountry >Date: 20 Aug 1995 02:45:27 GMT >I've seen honeybees above 13,000 feet on flowers. Where do they live? How >far do they climb to get nectar? I asked one, but no answer. Does anybody >know? --------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony N. Morgan (Tony) Fax: +47 73 89 62 86 "Stavshagen" E-mail: anthony@iet.hist.no Midtsandan Sor-Trondelag College 7563 MALVIK Elec. Eng. Department Norway 7005 TRONDHEIM, Norway ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 08:14:22 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Fall is here (almost) What now? In-Reply-To: <9508221236.AA19446@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> Good morning Allen, Sorry to hear that you have mites but I am glad to see that you purchased a microscope. I have found it to be not only a way to avoid commercial sampling fees but a great way to get results quickly. I have occassionaly found a yard that was simply 'not right', so I take a few samples and dissect them the same night. Here are some tips I have found that have really helped me. - get set up with a good light source if your microscope does not have its own. - I never pin down the bee. Rather I hold it in my hand and move it around to locate and focus. - Get a REALLY GOOD pair of tweezers. This is crucial. Mine come from a lapidary/jewellery supplier here in Edmonton. - I, too, found menthanol makes the bees tough. I located a source of denatured ethanol which I mix 50-50 with water. The bees die instantly and dissection is much easier. The only problem with this firm is that they do not sell over the counter and sell only to established accounts. If you are interested, let me know and I will pass the information along. I could also order some on my account and have it shipped to you if you wish. The minimum order was about 4 litres and 2 years ago this was about $50. However, it will last me for years and years. I, too, am concerned about missing low levels of infection. Since we don't know much about the quality control at any of the labs, I suppose the risk is there as well - although perhaps not as great as it is with our inexperience. It does take time. Even packaging the samples and sending them off takes time and I find that once I get rolling I can do about a bee a minute although I find it exhausting to go for more than an hour or so. I have set up microscopes, equipment, radio, etc. in a spare room so if I bring home a sample I can test it in relative comfort with little 'set up' time. Good luck. Oh yes, there was a suggestion that you put extender patties on in the fall. I tried this one year and the same patties were there in the spring. I also unwrapped to find a terrible mite problem. If the problem is severe I would recommend formic acid treatment as soon as your honey is removed. Eric Abell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 10:54:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harmony Farm Subject: Re: Bee Culture In-Reply-To: <950821222858_60068459@mail04.mail.aol.com> The Address for Bee Culture is The A. I. Root Co. Publishers 623 W. Liberty Street Medina, Ohio 44256 for Advertising their tel # is 800-289-7668 >From Harmony Farm Lisbon, NY On Mon, 21 Aug 1995, Boyd C Dickens wrote: > Does anyone have the 800 number or address so that I may subscribe to " Bee > Culture" magazine ? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank > you. > > Boyd > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 11:23:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Logan Vanleigh Subject: Re: Fall is here (almost) What now? [snip] >- I, too, found menthanol makes the bees tough. I located a source of >denatured ethanol which I mix 50-50 with water. The bees die instantly >and dissection is much easier. The only problem with this firm is that >they do not sell over the counter and sell only to established accounts. >If you are interested, let me know and I will pass the information >along. I could also order some on my account and have it shipped to you >if you wish. The minimum order was about 4 litres and 2 years ago this >was about $50. However, it will last me for years and years. [snip] Drugstores can usually order small bottles of denatured ethanol rubbing alchohol. While I can't speak to the unit price, it wil probably beat $50 for a more-than-lifetime supply. Logan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 09:36:23 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Overman Subject: Re: Membership Database Software In-Reply-To: <950821193535_79953206@mail04.mail.aol.com> You might look into a program that I use daily as a realtor. It allows me to keep multiple datebases. As president of our local beekeeping association I keep two such databases. The first contains all the information on our members. The second is used for beekeeping organizations that I need to contact. I believe this program will do all that you require with the exception of bar codes. The program is call ACT2 for windows. Hope that this may help you. Sincerely, ======================================================================== / \_/ \_/ William (Bill) J. Overman | Florida REALTOR \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \ 1512 John Carroll Dr. | Florida Panhandle Beekeeper / \_/ \ / \_/ \_/ Pensacola, Florida 32504 | (w)904-478-6363 fax 904-474-0536 _/ \_/ \_/ \ (h)904-476-3313 | / \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \ ============================ flareal@gulf.net =========================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 11:45:49 CST6CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BLANE WHITE Organization: Minnesota Dept of Agriculture Subject: Re: Fall is here (almost) What now? In the US you can buy denatured ethonal from hardware stores as a paint and varnish solvent at a much better price. It is probably tech grade but that doesn't matter for keeping samples in. You might want to try freezing as the bees cut nicely frozen in my experience and it is not a smelly as working with alcohol. blane ****************************************** Blane White State Apiary Inspector Minnesota Department of Agriculture Division of Plant Protection 90 W Plato Blvd St Paul, MN 55107 http://www.mda.state.mn.us ph 612-296-0591 fax 612-296-7386 bwhite@mda-is.mda.state.mn.us ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 10:46:24 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Fall is here (almost) What now? > Drugstores can usually order small bottles of denatured ethanol > rubbing alchohol. While I can't speak to the unit price, it wil > probably beat $50 for a more-than-lifetime supply. That sounds better, but isn't that propanol? 'Everclear' is 100 proof (50% ethanol) product that can be bought at duty free shops at the border. It should work, I would think. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 12:10:38 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Fall is here (almost) What now? > Drugstores can usually order small bottles of denatured ethanol > rubbing alchohol. While I can't speak to the unit price, it wil > probably beat $50 for a more-than-lifetime supply. >That sounds better, but isn't that propanol? >'Everclear' is 100 proof (50% ethanol) product that can be bought at >duty free shops at the border. It should work, I would think. >Allen >W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Here in Indiana, 'Everclear' is 190 proof (95% ethanol). Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 09:05:49 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom_Elliott@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US Subject: FOULBROOD QUESTIONS Definately get sample to Beltsville on suspected equipment, but don't jump to conclusions. We have had an interesting case up here in Alaska ( actually three cases) that looked like Foulbrood if you didn't consider closely. In fact upon observation one self-styled expert called it the worst case of American Foulbrood he had ever seen. In fact lab tests showen neither American nor European spores in the sample. I was not completely clear from your description. Did I understand that there were both dead larvae and capped brood? That is suspicious. The cases I am talking about were cleared up by requeening. Totally eliminated. That is not the most interesting aspect of the case. In two cases the old queen was put with another colony (one a nuc and the other a full colony). The problem queens had no further trouble. We have yet to find any explanation for this. Any similar experiences out there? I suspect that most beekeepers would have simply killed the bees and burned (or sterilized) the equipment. Careful observation and an inquiring mind can be valuable, and can leave many new (unanswered) questions. Tom Elliott Eagle River, AK P.S. To John Iannuzzi: How does your Fireweed grow? Just curious. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 12:14:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Fall is here (almost) What now? I think that if you get soem ethyl acetate (the main ingredient in 'non-acetone' nail-polish removers) and drop the bees into it, they will die quickly and remain soft for dissection. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 13:22:13 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/08/22 13:27 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re[2]: Fall is here (almost) What now? Allen-- Not sure what the rules are in Canada, but here in the U.S. both denatured ethanol and isopropanol can be purchased as "rubbing alcohol." You have to read the label, and check whether the denaturant will interfere with preserving the bees/mites. Again this is local rules, but at the Pennsylvania state liquor stores one can buy _un_denatured ethanol, 190-proof (the pure stuff). You have to pay the liquor tax on it, but for a small quantity it could be reasonable. If Alberta has independent liquor retailers, you might ask one whether he'd order some for you. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: Fall is here (almost) What now? From: SMTP.BEEL1 at ROHMAIL Date: 8/22/95 12:50 PM >> Drugstores can usually order small bottles of denatured ethanol >> rubbing alchohol. While I can't speak to the unit price, it wil >> probably beat $50 for a more-than-lifetime supply. > That sounds better, but isn't that propanol? > 'Everclear' is 100 proof (50% ethanol) product that can be bought at > duty free shops at the border. It should work, I would think. > Regards ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 13:57:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: Fall is here (almost) What now? >I hadn't heard about using drones. Interesting. Are they >particularly susceptible? YES DRONES are a good source for mites and if you are doing the tracheal dissection technique I decribed, not the disks, drones are much easier to use. > >Well, maybe I'm not doing it right, but I've found it pretty slow. I >used windsheild washer antifreeze - I take out a cooler with ice or ice packs and put the bees I collect in a vial or jar in that. They stop moving and are dead especially if the cooler is cold. Any other liquid will darken the tissues making it hard to see the mites and tubes. >>From what you say, I assume that you are saying just to look at the >first set of trachea and ignore the rest? - Just look for *bad* >cases? Maybe I'm being too fussy and it is slowing me down? YES, ALL THE mites you need to see will be in the prothoracic tracheal tubes. > >Moreover - adding to my confusion - a friend - the fellow who showed >me how, said that mild (beginning) infestations are often missed >because the mites are right at the spiracle, so that added to my >worries. THIS IS TRUE. And with mild infestations, my may miss mites altogehter. >You recommended putting the samples for tracheal tests into a jar and >freezing overnight, then rolling in the morning. > >The varroa, if any, would stick to the condensation on the jar and be >seen - am I right? I DON"T think this was me, but sounds good. >I'm sorry to appear so dense about this - and I know this is easy once >you've done it a few times - but the first time or two, one doesn't >know what is important and what is not. Just keep trying, my mite-dissection video should be available next year, as soon as I finish my dissertation. Diana Sammataro Dept Entomology The Ohio State University, 1735 Neil Ave. Columbus OH 43210 1220 Phone: 614 292 9089, Fax: 614 292 2180 Email: dsammata@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 13:15:54 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Fall is here (almost) What now? > >'Everclear' is 100 proof (50% ethanol) product that can be > bought at >duty free shops at the border. It should work, I > would think. > > >Allen > Here in Indiana, 'Everclear' is 190 proof (95% ethanol). Ouch! No wonder it gave me such a sore head >;( Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 17:52:50 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: End of Beekeeping Merit Badge In-Reply-To: <950821193604_79953617@mail04.mail.aol.com> On Mon, 21 Aug 1995, David Morris wrote: > Today, August 21, I called the national headquarters for the Boy Scouts of > America and confirmed that BEEKEEPING MERIT BADGE will be discontinued on > September 1, 1995. Any idea if this also applies outside the US anyone? Should the rest of us also get busy in our own countries? Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 17:48:07 -0500 Reply-To: godave@infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Johnson Organization: mailhost.nr.infi.net Subject: this list still active? I am shocked to see no conversation on this list. What's going on? Anybody? Thanks. godave@infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 20:03:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Davis" Subject: HELP! HELP! Wax Moths! Ok - This may sound dumb to you experienced folks - but this novice beekeeper just bought 50 deeps for a good price that have experienced rather heavy wax moth damage. The wood is still good but the comb is shot. Some(a few) adult moths were noticed when I inspected the equipment before sale. Most of the damage had already been done. I didnt see any larvae. Question - am I asking for serious trouble if I bring this equipment home (to my uninfested apiary) to clean and refurbish? What safeguards can I take to knock out these moths in a big hurry. Is the better question "when will I have trouble with moths"? rather than "will I ever have trouble with them?". Is any apiary immune? Please help, guys and gals. Steve Davis Clackamas Co. Oregon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 21:50:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bill fernihough Subject: Re: HELP! HELP! Wax Moths! >Ok - This may sound dumb to you experienced folks - but this novice beekeeper >just bought 50 deeps for a good price that have experienced rather heavy wax >moth damage. The wood is still good but the comb is shot. Some(a few) adult >moths were noticed when I inspected the equipment before sale. Most of the >damage had already been done. I didnt see any larvae. Question - am I asking >for serious trouble if I bring this equipment home (to my uninfested apiary) >to clean and refurbish? What safeguards can I take to knock out these moths >in a big hurry. Is the better question "when will I have trouble with >moths"? rather than "will I ever have trouble with them?". Is any apiary >immune? Please help, guys and gals. >Steve Davis >Clackamas Co. Oregon Steve, I would keep those away from my own hives till winter. Leave them outside and let the moths do their work. They have started it they may as well finish it. Then clean the frames, buy some plastic cell foundatiion inserts, and thats the end of your problems, mostly. If you keep the moths away from your hives, till cold weather, the cold, freezing that is, will kill the moths, the larvae, and the eggs. Then its safe to bring them to your beeyard. Other wise, you'll have a big problem. Bill Fernihough HONEY is sweeter then wine. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 08:10:14 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Erik Seielstad Subject: Some Recent Listserv problems Comments: To: socinsct@albany.edu Hello everyone- Most of you probably don't know me - but I am the manager of this list. Albany.edu recently upgraded a couple things on the machine hosting this list, and it caused a number of problems delivering mail. I beleive those problems have been fixed. some of you may have lost some mail, and some of you were mistakenly unsubscribed from the list...so the administrators in albany and I went back and installed an older list of subscribers. So, a few of you who may have unsubscribed to the list are back on it. If so, just send me a note (erik@acs.brockport.edu) and I'll remove you from the list. anyone who is missing mail can get this month's notebook by sending email to: listserv@albany.edu in the body of the letter send the command: get bee-l log9508 or get socinsct log9508 if you have any problems, feel free to contact me. -erik -- Erik Seielstad | Systems Programmer/Analyst Internet: erik@acspr1.acs.brockport.edu | SUNY College at Brockport ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 06:21:16 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: HELP! HELP! Wax Moths! > >Ok - This may sound dumb to you experienced folks - but this novice > >beekeeper just bought 50 deeps for a good price that have > >experienced rather heavy wax moth damage. > >. Steve Davis Clackamas Co. Oregon > > Steve, I would keep those away from my own hives till winter. Leave > them outside and let the moths do their work. They have started it > they may as well finish it. Then clean the frames, buy some plastic > cell foundatiion inserts, and thats the end of your problems, > mostly. If you keep the moths away from your hives, till cold > weather, the cold, freezing that is, will kill the moths, the > larvae, and the eggs. Then its safe to bring them to your beeyard. > Other wise, you'll have a big problem. Well it depends what you'd call 'rather heavy wax moth damage' and which type of moths you have. And it depends where Clackamas Co. Oregon is. If you get cold winters that's one thing. If you are on the coast, that is another. While Bill's advice is good - especially if you have temperatures down to below zero F. that are sure to penetrate your equipment, it may apply less if you don't. If the damage is mostly visual, and the combs are more than cocoons and frass, it might be best just to put them on the hives for the bees to clean up. *In our area*, good bees and weather beat moths every time. We have had moths here a number of times, but they never manage to accomplish much because we do not store much equipment in a cosy tight space where they can get going. Moths - and especially their larvae - cannot survive if they are in a well aired out place. Simply stacking the boxes criss cross outside so the air can get at all the combs will usually put and end to them for all intents and purposes. Personally. I'd find a local commercial beekeeper and seek his advice. You may have more problems than moths. Was this equipment inspected by a knowledgeable beekeeper for AFB before you bought it? These subjecst have been covered from time to time over the past few years on this list, so you might like to search the archives. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 09:38:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kim Flottum Subject: End of Beekeeping Merit Badge Dave, Will it never end? Keep up the good work, and I'll get something in the October issue to see if that helps. Kim ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 14:41:36 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Black bees and wasps. This year I requeened my colonies with (what purport to be) native British black queens (A. m. mellifera). There's been quite a lot of discussion going in the UK recently about the merits of native bees. I seem to remember the topic has appeared once or twice on bee-l too. To summarise: one may not achieve such high yields in good years but should, on balance, do better in what would otherwise have been bad years because the bees have evolved in our climate and will respond more appropriately to changes in the weather. Overwintering success should improve too. Anyway, I find the arguments plausible and thought I'd give black bees a try. There's been enough time for the hive populations to be completely replaced by now. I can't draw many conclusions so far but one thing is very noticeable: they're much more defensive than the mongrels I had before. There's always trouble with wasps (yellow jackets for you N. Americans) at this time of year and up to now I've been accustomed to finding a number in all the hives whenever I open them up. However, that's all changed. The scene ouside each of the hive entrances was like a battlefield - strewn with the bodies of dead wasps. Those still trying to get in were being repulsed with great efficiency. One might expect from this that they'd be rather unpleasant to work. Far from it. If anything they're better than my previous bees. Last weekend, for the first time, there was a slight tendency for them to become a bit touchy towards the end of each hive inspection but that's not suprising. The main flow is over and, with the drought we have at present, nothing at all is coming in. I'll be interested to see what happens next year. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 09:40:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kim Flottum Subject: Re: Bee Culture Hi, You can reach us at 800-289--7668, exten. 3220 for subs. Or you can send your CC info directly to us on this service at BCULTURE@AOL.COM. We'll be glad to help either way. And thanks for asking. Kim Flottum Editor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 21:29:12 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Roddy Subject: American Bee Federation annual meeting anyone know where the ABF is holding its annual conference this year, and when? Its usually in January I think. thanks in advance. Kevin Roddy kroddy@hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 11:24:02 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Bees in the Mountains (was: Bees in Backcountry) On 20 Aug 1995 Bob Webster wrote in newsgroup rec.backcountry: > I've seen honeybees above 13,000 feet on flowers. Where do they live? > How far do they climb to get nectar? I asked one, but no answer. Does > anybody know? On 22 Aug 1995 15:20:47 Tony Morgan was wondering: > Could they really have been honeybees? I've seen bumblebees out > foraging both in terrible weather and up high (8000 feet anyway) but > never honeybees. > Observation of honeybees must be dependent upon both temperature and > distance to the nearest hives, but do they have a height limit in > addition? Any one have any ideas? Hi bee-lovers, Hi Tony ! This week-end, I was on a mini-trip in the swiss and french Alpen (mountains) with a jump to Lausanne (Apimondia). We visit a small beekeeper (7 hives) in a ski station (1850 m = +6000 feet). In the talk, he said in the summer, his mother was living in a house(chalet?) at about 2500 m (8200 feet). Without any car way. This year, a swarm from his uncle's bees (1900 m hth) came in an empty hive at the balcony. They are working a lot and he was thinking to have a good crop of at least 8-12 kg (16-24 #) of mountains honey he shall get down in a case on his back. The blooming was almost quite finished in the village (Bonneval-sur-Arc) but, at 2800-3000 m (9200-10000 feet), the alpine flowers are only fully blooming. At this altitude, he maked his first hay crop (he put it down on a cable). He said : a lot of bees on a lot of different flowers .... He doesn't know if this swarm will overwinter but he'll give them some sugar and under a few meters of snow ... we'll see at the spring ! IMHO : if the bees come in a human hive at this height, they come also in rocks holes and try to overwinter. If they don't win, another swarm will try the next year ... Seems it is as this they rise again to the North (Norway ?) after the last ice age. Hope this helps ! Jean-Marie Van Dyck Local informations ... Long. : 4deg 56' E - Lat. : 50deg 30' N - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept This => C'est ma facon de parler ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 09:27:07 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Boy Scouts Beekeeping Merit Bade Requirements The requirements for the Beekeeping Merit Badge, taken from http://www.hiwaay.net/hyper/Scouts/mbreq.cgi/28 1. Study a hive of bees. Remove the combs. Find the queen. Figure the amount of the brood, number of queen cells. Figure the amount of honey in the hive. 2. Show the differences among the drones, workers, eggs, larvae, and pupae at different stages. Tell the dif- ferences among honey, wax, pollen, and propolis. Tell how bees make honey. Tell where the wax comes from. Explain the part played in the life of the hive by the queen, the drones and the workers. 3. Hive a swarm or divide at least one colony. Explain how a hive is made. 4. Put foundation in sections of frames. Fill supers with frames or sections. Take off filled supers from the hive. Fix the honey for market. 5. Write in not more than 200 words how and why the honeybee is used in pollinating farm crops. Name five crops in your area pollinatd by honeybees. >----------< Seems to me that beekeepers willing to help scouts can also help themselves! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 19:18:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ademilson Espencer Egea Soares Subject: Pheromone and pollination Hi Bee-Lovers I'm in Ribeirao Preto city, Sao Paulo state, in Brazil and I would like to receive any information about pheromones and scents in pollination crops. I'm Clarice Sakamoto, a post-graduate student and just now I'm begining a pollination research in farm crops and in green-house. I would be pleasured to maintain contact with somebody or any lab who sells bee-here or other kind of pheromone. Thanks in advance. Clarice ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 06:52:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Coyle Subject: Polariscope I am trying to build a polariscope as show in "ABC and XYZ of Bee Cluture" But I am having a hard time trying to find Polariod "J" film. Does any body know where I could get this or can i substitute some other item instead? Ken Coyle After bees comes honey. kcoyle@hookup.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 09:04:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: Polariscope > I am trying to build a polariscope as show in "ABC and XYZ of Bee Cluture" > But I am having a hard time trying to find Polariod "J" film. Does any > body know where I could get this or can i substitute some other item > instead? > > Ken Coyle After bees comes honey. > kcoyle@hookup.net > Friend, U don't neet Polaroid J film. Years ago when I built mine, I got the material from Edmund Scientific 101 E Gloucester Pike Barrington NJ 08007 (1984 catalog). Try 1-800-257-6173 or 1/800-323-6677 (NJ only). I really don't know if the company is still in business. Bonne chance. Jack the B-man ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 15:35:54 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vigone Paolo Subject: Web Mail Server Comments: To: beeList , swlList Ciao, I'm looking for a new Web Mail Server. I used webmail@curia and agora@www but too slow :(. Can you help me? Thanks -------------------------------- Paolo Vigone - Italy vigone@ic8ud6.settimo.italtel.it ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 07:49:50 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Employment opportunity wanted (fwd) I sent this message several days ago but suspect that it was lost during the recent list problems. Please excuse this is you received it earlier. I have a young man working for me for the third season. He has decided to take a year off before returning to University and would be interested in doing some beekeeping while exploring another part of the world. He was thinking of Australia or New Zealand, thinking that the season would be opposite ours but would be interested in looking at opportunities elsewhere. The first step is to find out the time of the year during which employment might be possible. For those of you outside of North America, could you please give me an indication of any employment opportunities and the time of year in your area. For example, here in Northern Alberta in Canada, there is seasonal employement in the beekeeping industry from May through to August or September with extra help required during July and August. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 08:55:05 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Polariscope > > I am trying to build a polariscope as show in "ABC and XYZ of Bee > > Cluture" But I am having a hard time trying to find Polariod "J" > > film. Does any body know where I could get this or can i > > substitute some other item instead? If you aren''t being too fancy, polaroid sunglass lenses should work. They are often available in a light tint. To find out if they are polaroid or not, just cross two similar pairs and rotate when shopping - at 90 degrees, they should become very dark - or look at wet pavement in the direction of the sun with and without them on . With them on the glare should disappear. Alternately polaroid filters are inexpensive at any good camera shop. Seeing as the exact diameter should not matter to you, you might be able to get a deal on an obsolete size. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 10:56:10 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/08/25 11:05 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re[2]: Polariscope Subject: Re: Polariscope From: SMTP.BEEL2 at ROHMAIL Date: 8/25/95 9:08 AM Jack the B-man wrote, in part: > Friend, > U don't neet Polaroid J film. Years ago when I > built mine, I got the material from Edmund > Scientific 101 E Gloucester Pike Barrington > NJ 08007 (1984 catalog). Try 1-800-257-6173 > or 1/800-323-6677 (NJ only). I really don't > know if the company is still in business. Yes, Edmund Scientific is still in business. I just got a catalog from them a few weeks ago. Unfortunately it's home, so I can't confirm the phone numbers, but they're certainly where I'd go for any optical devices or parts. I'll check the catalog over the weekend, and if the phone numbers are different, I'll post on Monday. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 09:59:27 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Fall is here (almost) What now? > Here are some tips I have found that have really helped me. > > - get set up with a good light source if your microscope does not > have its own. > > - I never pin down the bee. Rather I hold it in my hand and move it > around to locate and focus. > > - Get a REALLY GOOD pair of tweezers. This is crucial. Mine come > from a lapidary/jewellery supplier here in Edmonton. Okay, I tried holding them in the fingers - much better! I froze a few that looked really poor and then pulled them apart. I notice that after freezing and pulling apart that there appears to be a membrane over the tracheae that make s them a little hard to see. So far nothing - no mites. I think I'll go back to alcohol unless someone knows something about the freezing that I haven't taken into consideration. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 11:52:23 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Oliphant Subject: Re: Re[2]: Polariscope, Edmund Scientific info In-Reply-To: ; from "John E III Taylor" at Aug 25, 95 10:56 am Here is the info on Edmund Scientific that was ask for: Edmund Scientific Company 101 E. Gloucester Pike, Barrington, NJ 08007-1380 Phone Orders: 609-573-6250 Fax Orders: 609-573-6295 Monday-Friday 8:00AM-8:00PM Eastern Time, Saturday: 9:00Am - 4:00PM There are other phone numbers for Industrial and Educational Pricing. Mailing List Info/Assistance 609-573-6865 Catalog Request (Voice Mail) 609-573-6858 609-573-6859 General Product Information 609-573-6879 I got a 1994 catalog right here if anyone needs any more info. -- Paul --------------------------------------------------------------- Applications Manager Computer-Aided Engineering Center email oliphant@engr.wisc.edu University of Wisconsin-Madison Voice 608/265-2637 1410 Johnson Drive, Room 188 FAX 606/265-4546 Madison, WI 53706-1691 --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 21:16:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Coyle Subject: Queen Disappears I have a hive 2 1/2 supers high brood area. For some reason they supersed the queen. My problem is there is no queen. The queen cells were open, but no sign of a queen. After 2 weeks I put in a frame from another hive with eggs, larve and brood. They start building queen cells, they open but there is no sign of the queen. I have done this three times. Can any one help? Should I just buy a new queen? Thanks Ken Coyle After bees comes honey. kcoyle@hookup.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 12:14:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Coyle Subject: Queen Disappears (Found) In reference to my earlier Question, I was out today and after 2 months I found a Queen and brood. Thanks to all who offered suggestions. >I have a hive 2 1/2 supers high brood area. For some reason they supersed the >queen. My problem is there is no queen. The queen cells were open, but no >sign of a queen. After 2 weeks I put in a frame from another hive with eggs, >larve and brood. They start building queen cells, they open but there is no >sign of the queen. I have done this three times. Can any one help? Should I >just buy a new queen? > >Thanks Ken Coyle After bees comes honey. kcoyle@hookup.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 12:14:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Coyle Subject: Wintering Nuc Hi: Does anybody know if it is possible to overwinter a four frame nuc? I live in southern Ontario about an hour south of Toronto. Would I need to use mor insulation? Thanks Ken Coyle After bees comes honey. kcoyle@hookup.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 17:58:17 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hooker Organization: Technology Management Ltd Subject: Re: Wintering Nuc Probably. I overwintered a four framed nuc last winter here in the UK but we had a mild winter and we are in the south of the country about 51degrees N if my map reading is right! The nuc was healthy in the autumn and came out of the winter great but has been troubled with Verroa mites since. Keith >>> Keith JM Hooker <<< >>> Technology Management Ltd <<< >>> WHITSTABLE Kent CT5 4ED UK <<< ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 11:00:40 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Hooker Organization: Technology Management Ltd Subject: Finding Hans Dreisig Does anyone have the email address for Hans Dreisig of the Univeristy of Copenhagen, Denmark Thanks Keith >>> Keith JM Hooker <<< >>> Technology Management Ltd <<< >>> WHITSTABLE Kent CT5 4ED UK <<< ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 16:08:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mick Youther Subject: Queen excluders What is the current thought on the use of queen excluders. I hived a package this spring and seem to have a good strong colony and am hoping to get a little honey from the goldenrod bloom this fall. I put a super on prematurely this summer with a queen excluder and nothing happened. There were a few bees above the excluder, but no drawn comb. Only some foundation wax had bee eaten or moved. When I add a super for the goldenrod bloom. Should I use an excluder? Mick Youther In the Beautiful Shawnee Hills of Southern Illinois ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:35:11 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Julian O'Dea What is the current consensus on the "waggle dance" controversy? I thought that the robot bee work reported in National Geographic a few years ago had proved Von Frisch correct but I came across a recent book by Wenner and Wells still arguing in favour of the odour hypothesis. I understand that AD Blest reported that post-flight movements of some moths contain information on the flight they have just completed. Is it possible that the bee's waggle dance (and the moth's movements) serve to aid the insect in learning for its own purposes? That is, could the waggle dance of bees be a way of fixing the information on a food source in the nervous system of the bee doing the dancing? Any communication of the information to other bees (if it indeed occurs) would be a bonus. It seems obvious that an individual bee will need to "remember" her own recent successes in terms of direction and duration of flight so that she can return to her own food sources. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 18:55:24 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Has the list moved to a new listserv, or is this address above just and alias? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 19:09:31 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Controversy? > What is the current consensus on the "waggle dance" controversy? I > thought that the robot bee work reported in National Geographic a > few years ago had proved Von Frisch correct but I came across a > recent book by Wenner and Wells still arguing in favour of the odour > hypothesis. > > I understand that AD Blest reported that post-flight movements of > some moths contain information on the flight they have just > completed. Is it possible that the bee's waggle dance (and the > moth's movements) serve to aid the insect in learning for its own > purposes? That is, could the waggle dance of bees be a way of > fixing the information on a food source in the nervous system of the > bee doing the dancing? Any communication of the information to > other bees (if it indeed occurs) would be a bonus. Well, I don't think it has to be one or the other. Both are good explanations. The waggle dance is seen on swarms which have moved out, but are still (we think) deciding on their destination. This is a much more transient state than the normal hive foraging situation and would seem to substantiate the waggle dance. However Adrian in a recent article says - if I understand him correctly - that the actual navigation is by following scent trails in the air laid down by numerous scouts going out and returning, not by having learned about the location in a dance. When we find a group of people at (say) a MacDonalds restaurant, they have found out about it through many different means: Scent, sight, descriptions from others, being led there by others, etc. etc. Why should bees be different? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 19:13:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bill fernihough Subject: Re: Queen excluders Comments: cc: YODER%SIUCVMB.bitnet@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >What is the current thought on the use of queen excluders. I hived a package >this spring and seem to have a good strong colony and am hoping to get a >little >honey from the goldenrod bloom this fall. I put a super on prematurely this >summer with a queen excluder and nothing happened. There were a few bees >above >the excluder, but no drawn comb. Only some foundation wax had bee eaten or >moved. > When I add a super for the goldenrod bloom. Should I use an excluder? > >Mick Youther >In the Beautiful Shawnee Hills >of Southern Illinois You made the classic error that I made and so do many new beekeepers. You never put a queen excluder under foundation. Never! As you found out, the bees don't like it. You must put the new foundation on directly, let it be drawn out, and when most of the 10 frames are drawn, and have some honey in them, put on the excluder, between this new box and the brood chambers. If you do it the way you did, you may even get a very crowded hive leading to swarming, and lose most of your bees. You can put a box of new foundation on top of the drawn comb that has the queen exluder under it. I.E.: do as I pointed out above, then when you have put in the queen exlcuder, add a box of foundation on top of the drawn box. The bees will accept that. Some beekeepers may suggest that you try to get around this problem by moving some of the combs from the brood chamber into the new chamber and mixing up the frames. Might work in a strong honey flow, but I recommend leaving well enough alone. So remember this, its only a problem when you are trying to get new comb drawn on new foundation. Next year, if you are reusing the drawn comb from this year, you can put the excluder in right away. Bill Fernihough HONEY is sweeter then wine. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 21:16:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: how comb honey is produced I keep reading about 'foundations', made of plastic, which i imagine are little press-out forms for the bees to make comb on -? But the comb honey I bought was in a little square wooden frame about 5" square, and it was all wax inside. How are these things obtained? (I have never actually seen a hive, or inside one, so in my imagination everything is rather amorphous!) Thanks, Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA Goldenrod and aster still not in bloom here yet... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 09:09:31 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Looking for a recent article. The following question was featured recently in one of the trade journals, but I don't know which one. "How much money would a pound of honey cost if the bees were paid the minimum wage?" I believe the choices are American Bee Journal, Bee Cluture or Gleanings in Beekeeping. Can anyone point me to the proper source, including the correct issue? Thanks in advance! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 05:19:54 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Roddy Subject: Re: Looking for a recent article. In-Reply-To: <950828.091100.EDT.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> On Mon, 28 Aug 1995, Aaron Morris wrote: > The following question was featured recently in one of the trade > journals, but I don't know which one. > > "How much money would a pound of honey cost if the bees > were paid the minimum wage?" > > I believe the choices are American Bee Journal, Bee Cluture or Gleanings > in Beekeeping. Can anyone point me to the proper source, including the > correct issue? Thanks in advance! > Hi Aaron-- I'm a reference librarian, and just happened to have reviewed the isue containing the info. you wanted this weekend! The citation is: Bee Culture, June 1995 page 365, in the "Questions?" feature. aloha, kevin roddy university of hawai'i at hilo kroddy@hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 05:43:01 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Roddy Subject: found the citation you need ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 05:19:54 -1000 (HST) From: Kevin Roddy To: Discussion of Bee Biology Cc: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L Subject: Re: Looking for a recent article. Hi aaron-- I found the citation you're looking for to the question > "How much money would a pound of honey cost if the bees > were paid the minimum wage?" > I'm a reference librarian, and just happened to have reviewed the isue containing the info. you wanted this weekend! The citation is: Bee Culture, June 1995 page 365, in the "Questions?" feature. aloha, kevin roddy university of hawai'i at hilo kroddy@hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 09:07:29 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: Looking for a recent article. bee culture, june july or august, i believe it was around 17,000 / pound john ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:35:01 -0400 Reply-To: aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin R. Palm" Subject: Newbee questions Dear fellow BEE-L'rs, I have a few beginner-type questions. I hope that this isn't too long, but I want to explain my situation fully. I just began beekeeping this year. I live in northeastern Ohio, near Cleveland, and I have one colony. I purchased my (inspected) hive from a fellow beekeeper and installed my package at the end of April. With all frames of drawn comb and honey/pollen stores already in place, the package just took off and I extracted two medium supers of the most delicious wildflower honey at the beginning of August. After I removed the two filled mediums, I replaced them with two empty mediums of drawn comb. I have not as yet used a queen excluder. The goldenrod is just beginning to bloom, and I figured that I would leave whatever honey the bees got from this for winter stores. After that long-winded exposition, here are my questions: 1. Should I have only put one medium on for winter honey?? And will two mediums encourage the queen to start laying in them?? 2. Should I use a queen excluder in the fall? 3. When I put in the Apistan strips and Terramycin (soon), should I mark the super(s) of winter stores for fall use only so I'll know not to use the frames for spring honey? 4. If, in the spring, the bees have not consumed all the fall honey, what can I do with the frames prior to the spring honey flow?? Thanks for listening, I've always found some of the best answers to come from this list, and I appreciate all the help you've given me in the past. Sincerely, Kevin Palm -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin R. Palm aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:58:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: comb contined Well, if the bees will use a plastic foundation, why not make the whole thing for them, hex cells, everything but the cap? Wouldn't it be easier to clean or get the honey out of ? Liz Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 15:02:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Plastic/high density hives 1. Has any one used plastic/high density hive bodies/supers and what is your opinion on them? 2. Who sells them? Thanks in advance. God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A., 32 hives ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 12:12:26 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: comb contined You wrote: > >Well, if the bees will use a plastic foundation, why not make the >whole thing for them, hex cells, everything but the cap? Wouldn't >it be easier to clean or get the honey out of ? > >Liz > >Liz Day >LDAY@indy.net >Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA > They call it permacomb and/or ANP. I am using both and am quite satisfied. The acceptance was a smidge slow, but things still moved more quickly than if I had used foundation. Lets see how they overwinter on the stuff though ;) Keith ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:28:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Maxwell Subject: how comb honey is produced -Reply Liz, Those little frames that you have seen with honey cone are the same type of thing that is used in regular honey production only on a bigger scale. Emagine a rectangle about 24 inches long and 12 inches high. Then a foundation is place in this frame. Now if a bee keeper wants to be able to cut up the honey cone once the bees have drawn out the wax walls and filled the cone with honey, he will use a foundation that is pressed from Bees Wax. If on the other hand he would like to spin the honey out of the cone and then reuse the cone, he may choose to use a plastic foundation with a bees wax coating. The advantage to this is the fact that the plastic will stand more stress when the honey is being extracted adn will not blow out. I guess the thing to remember here is that it takes about 7 lbs of honey for a bee to produce 1 lb. of wax. So if you are strickly producing honey you don;t want to make those bee's work on creating to cone but you want them to spend their time collecting honey. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:29:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: New product for Nosema? I've been asked about a product sold in Germany for control of Nosema apis. The name given was NOSEMACK. It is apparently applied in tablet form into syrup. The active ingredient was read to me, as not Fumagillin, but (this is no joke) aestylmescurithiosalcylsaure-nairlorasaka, or thicanersal. Does anyone have any information about this product (or the active ingredient)? Thanks Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 16:59:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion D. Ellis" Subject: Re: Polariscope >> > I am trying to build a polariscope as show in "ABC and XYZ of Bee >> > Cluture" But I am having a hard time trying to find Polariod "J" >> > film. Does any body know where I could get this or can i >> > substitute some other item instead? Edmund Scientific, Chicago, Illinois Marion Ellis, mellis@unlinfo.unl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 17:05:53 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: The finer details about hunting mites Some time back, I received this good advice: >YOU CAN PULL OFF THE HEAD AND FIRST PAIR OF LEGS IN ONE > PULL AND WITH A REASONABLE MICROSCOPE OR EVEN A GOOD > LENS, LOOK DOWN THE THORACIC TRUNK AND SEE THE TWO > MAIN TRACHEAL TUBES. IF WHITE AND PEARLY, NO TMITES, > IF CLOUDY AND/OR DARK, YOU HAVE MITES. I've seen dark, and it is really obvious, but what about cloudy? Can the trachea be cloudy - and white? Seems there is a range from perfectly clear to whitish that looks normal to me. The whitish ones have a spiral design on them like a vacuum cleaner (or bee blower) hose and branch. Is the appearance of the tubes something that varies with the age of the bee? Or am I seeing low levels or early levels of mites in the bee when I see some opacity? I realise that this really doesn't matter too much because if the infestation is that questionable, I am not having to treat. But I'm still curious. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:13:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "William Nelson@Aol.Com" Subject: Re: Queen excluders Mick, I'm in Northern IN and used Queen excluders on mite resistant Carnolian bees, three from Kelly and one from N. California new packages this year. One hive nothing, one hive one full deep box nothing above the excluder, one hive three deep supers all without queen excluders after the main honey flow and still going, with two shallow and one Il. depth boxes of nine frame honey ( a really good hive) and I used excluders for the shallows. Those were the kelly hives. One N. California hive put in one month later from package bees (3lbs. as were all above) with one shallow and one IL depth super above queen excluder and after removal, one deep super without queen excluder and still going. So, I think it depends on the strength of the colony. My weak colonies did not go above the excluders but my strong colonies did and made a really good crop and kept their queens out of the honey supers while using the excluders. The only reason I am getting the deep boxes of honey is because I thought the flow was pretty much over and I don't particullarily like goldenrod honey so I hoped any residual honey would be made for the winter. Well our goldenrod really hasn't taken off yet and I put Apistan in the hive so now I'm going to have three deep boxes of honey plus whatever fall flowers the bees use. The deep supers were filled in two weeks, really amazed me. Don't know if this helps but good luck ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 19:25:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "William Nelson@Aol.Com" Subject: Re: how comb honey is produced Liz, Comb honey can be produced using special comb honey frames and wooden boxes with inserted very thin bees wax. There are several styles of boxes that can be assembled and placed into these frames with special holders that are part of the frames. There are also round sections that also use a different kind of plastic frame situation and these are called Ross Rounds. There is a realitively new system call Hogg Half comb cassettes. These can be seen in several of the bee catalogues. There is also extruded plastic foundation some wax covered and some not that can be purchased. If your further interested you can contact my Wife Emily Johnson through her business the Honey Bunch at 62295 Pine Rd. North Liberty, IN. 46554 (219) 232-7387. She can probably obtain these items for you or at least send info on them so that you can understand what each is Bill Nelson/Emily Johnson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:51:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau >Does anybody know if it is possible to overwinter a four frame nuc? I live >in southern Ontario about an hour south of Toronto. Would I need to use >mor insulation? > >Ken Coyle Many canadian beekeepers overwinter successfully 4 frames nucs. One good method is to place two 4 frames nucs in a divided supers on top of hives containing full size colonies wrapped in four packs. The nucs must be really strong. I know beekeepers using this method in fairly cold areas of the province of Alberta. I suggest that you contact commercial beekeepers from southern Ontario. I can suggest Paul Montoux and Barrie Davis. Jean-Pierre Chapleau Queen breeder Vice-president of the Canadian Honey Council 1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien de Ham, Quebec province., Canada J0A 1C0 phone (819) 828-3395; fax (819) 828-0357 chapleau@praline.net Jean-Pierre Chapleau Queen breeder Vice-president of the Canadian Honey Council 1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien de Ham, Quebec province, Canada, J0A 1C0 phone (819) 828-3396; fax (819) 828-0357 chapleau@praline.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 20:07:24 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Propolis removable In-Reply-To: <199508290051.UAA09167@scuzzy.fmmo.ca> Does any one know how to remove propolis from clothing, furniture and any other item that can't be scraped? Thanks, Ann ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 23:18:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Davis" Subject: Hive theft and pesticides Just how big of a problem is hive theft and pesticide damage. What if any losses do you commercial guys experience each year due to these causes. Steven A. Davis Clackamas Co. OR ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 00:20:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Propolis removable > From: Ann Dougherty > Does any one know how to remove propolis from clothing, furniture and any > other item that can't be scraped? There was just an article on removing propolis in BEE CULTURE magazine. I don't have the magazine with me so I can't give you any hints right now, but you can find it in there if you or your library get it... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:32:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Large observation hives & ibuprophin I'm still looking for information on large observation hive setups. I am particularly looking for information on a large hive set up in a gazebo in ?Alaska?. Also, one of our beekeepers is hasing a problem and her doctor wants to put her on ibuprophin (?sp). She mentioned the understanding that this medication can cause development of allergy to the bee stings. The doctor asked for references. Can anyone help with references? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, VP LIBA + + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:04:43 -0400 Reply-To: aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin R. Palm" Subject: Missing Bee-L Digest (Again) Hi, all... My mail server at work messed up AGAIN and I'm missing yesterday's BEE-L Digest (August 28, 1995 to August 29, 1995). Could some kind soul send me a copy again?? I'm currently having my freenet mail forwarded to my work e-mail, but since I'm having reoccurring problems getting my mail, I'm going back to the freenet. Thanks a lot!! Kevin Palm -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin R. Palm aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:08:31 -0400 Reply-To: aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin R. Palm" Subject: Newbee questions (repost) Hello again! As my mail server at work is messing up again, I didn't receive any responses to yesterday's post, along with this morning's BEE-L Digest. I hope nobody minds, but I'm re-posting my questions in hopes of getting a response this time. Thanks again for all the help!! Dear fellow BEE-L'rs, I have a few beginner-type questions. I hope that this isn't too long, but I want to explain my situation fully. I just began beekeeping this year. I live in northeastern Ohio, near Cleveland, and I have one colony. I purchased my (inspected) hive from a fellow beekeeper and installed my package at the end of April. With all frames of drawn comb and honey/pollen stores already in place, the package just took off and I extracted two medium supers of the most delicious wildflower honey at the beginning of August. After I removed the two filled mediums, I replaced them with two empty mediums of drawn comb. I have not as yet used a queen excluder. The goldenrod is just beginning to bloom, and I figured that I would leave whatever honey the bees got from this for winter stores. After that long-winded exposition, here are my questions: 1. Should I have only put one medium on for winter honey?? And will two mediums encourage the queen to start laying in them?? 2. Should I use a queen excluder in the fall? 3. When I put in the Apistan strips and Terramycin (soon), should I mark the super(s) of winter stores for fall use only so I'll know not to use the frames for spring honey? 4. If, in the spring, the bees have not consumed all the fall honey, what can I do with the frames prior to the spring honey flow?? Thanks for listening, I've always found some of the best answers to come from this list, and I appreciate all the help you've given me in the past. Sincerely, Kevin Palm -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin R. Palm aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:09:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: The finer details about hunting mites In-Reply-To: <9508282305.AA47924@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> from "Allen Dick" at Aug 28, 95 05:05:53 pm In reply to Allen DIck's message about the tracheal tubes, there is some cloudiness there, depending on how much liquid seeps in after the head is removed. SOmetimes the tubes fill with honey, hemolymph or other body fluids and looks cloudy. If it is just discoloration, there is no problem. If it looks like there is something there, you have mites. If you have a light infestation, the mites will be crowded around the opening (spiracle) with the bodywall. SOmetime only one or two mites will be there and are very difficult to see. If you see any dirty tubes treat your mites now with patties for overwinter protection. Good luck Diana Diana Sammataro Dept Entomology The Ohio State University, 1735 Neil Ave. Columbus OH 43210 1220 Phone: 614 292 9089, Fax: 614 292 2180 Email: dsammata@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 07:12:45 -0400 Reply-To: aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin R. Palm" Subject: Missing Bee-L Digest (correction) Hi again, I had the wrong dates in my message about missing a Digest. I'm missing the Bee-L Digest from 27 August 1995 to 28 August 1995. I'm not awake yet, that's the problem!! If someone could send me a copy, I'd really appreciate it!! Sincerely, Kevin Palm -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin R. Palm aa2363@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 13:14:49 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Propolis removable In-Reply-To: <9508290405.AA09996@crosfield.co.uk> from "Ann Dougherty" at Aug 28, 95 08:07:24 pm > Does any one know how to remove propolis from clothing, furniture and any > other item that can't be scraped? Propolis is soluable in alcohol. I suppose you could use whisky but you'll probably find it a lot cheaper to use some form of denatured alcohol. I usually use what we in the UK call methylated spirit. Soak some into a piece of rag and dab away. You need to allow a litle time for large lumps of propolis to soften first. BEWARE! If you're proposing to use it on furniture you should be aware that french polish, a common finish for wood, particularly in the past, is soluable in alcohol too. If in doubt test in a small and inconspicuous place first. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 09:18:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Large observation hives & ibuprophin In a message dated 95-08-29 07:22:45 EDT, rjl7317@HAZELTINE.COM (Ray Lackey) writes: >Also, one of our beekeepers is hasing a problem and her doctor wants >to >put her on ibuprophin (?sp). She mentioned the understanding that >this >medication can cause development of allergy to the bee stings. The >doctor asked for references. Can anyone help with references? > I don't think it is a development of allergy. I had a severe reaction once when I was taking a pain killer in the ibuprofen family, and I was stung just once. It scared me; bees are my livelihood. But I had no further problem, a few days later, when no longer taking the drug. I think it is an interreaction of the venom and the drug(s). Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:01:41 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Large observation hives & ibuprophin In-Reply-To: <199508291032.AA106342355@hazeltine.com> On Tue, 29 Aug 1995, Ray Lackey wrote: > I'm still looking for information on large observation hive setups. I > am particularly looking for information on a large hive set up in a > gazebo in ?Alaska?. > > Also, one of our beekeepers is hasing a problem and her doctor wants to > put her on ibuprophin (?sp). She mentioned the understanding that this > medication can cause development of allergy to the bee stings. The > doctor asked for references. Can anyone help with references? > I have no references but have used Ibuprophin and have had no trouble with sensitivity. The stings still hurt, however. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:02:53 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mary Jo Orzech Subject: Edward Southwick With great sadness, I report to members of the Bee-l community the death of Edward E. Southwick, last Tues. 8/22/95. Dr. Southwick was a much loved teacher, instructor and friend. He was an internationally recognized bee expert and taught at the State University of New York at Brockport since 1977. Ed was also the founder and co-owner of Bee-l, which was created as a means for bee researchers to communicate and keep in touch around the world. Raised in Midland, Mich., Dr. Southwick held a bachelor of science degree in mechanical engineering and a masters degree in biology from the Univ. of Michigan. His doctoral degree was in physiological zoology from Washington State Univerity. Southwick died of pancreatic cancer; he was 52. He is survived by his wife, Alrun Southwick, and two daughters, Stephanie Lisa Southwick of San Antonio, Texas and Antje Southwick of Ann Arbor, Michigan. His passing is an enormous loss to us all. Mary Jo Orzech Academic Computing Services SUNY Brockport Brockport, Ny 14420 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:59:10 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/08/29 11:05 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re[2]: comb contined >>Well, if the bees will use a plastic foundation, why not make the >>whole thing for them, hex cells, everything but the cap? Wouldn't >>it be easier to clean or get the honey out of ? >> >>Liz > >They call it permacomb and/or ANP... > >Keith Biggest problem I see with the Permacomb is the cost. As a hobbyist, I'd rather let the bees draw comb on wax foundation or waxed plastic foundation than spend the significant extra money for the Permacomb. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:05:05 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Pheromone and pollination Hi, Clarice, >I'm in Ribeirao Preto city, Sao Paulo state, in Brazil and I would like to >receive any information about pheromones and scents in pollination crops. >I'm Clarice Sakamoto, a post-graduate student and just now I'm begining a >pollination research in farm crops and in green-house. I would be >pleasured to maintain contact with somebody or any lab who sells bee-here >or other kind of pheromone. Before you purchase any such product, you should read an article that appeared in the April issue of the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL ("An evaluation of selected commercial bee attractants in the pollination of cucumbers and watermelons"). One of their conclusions: "Neither product significantly increased bee activity on the subject vine crops when compared to an untreated control nor did they increase the value of the subsequent harvest." (in their abstract). Our experience so far has been that there is no such thing as a general honey bee attractant chemical, which is good --- colonies can then switch from one crop to another with relative efficiency. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:06:11 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: MEMO 1995/08/29 11:11 From: John E III Taylor Subject: Re: New product for Nosema? Kerry Clark wrote, in part: > The name given was NOSEMACK. It is apparently applied in tablet form > into syrup. > > The active ingredient was read to me, as not Fumagillin, but (this is no > joke) aestylmescurithiosalcylsaure-nairlorasaka, or thicanersal. I'd guess the English version of the product Kerry mentions would be "acetylmercurithiosalicylic acid". Because it has mercury in it, the US FDA would probably be reluctant to approve it. John E. Taylor III W3ZID | "The opinions expressed are those of the E-Mail: mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 10:11:53 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X From: mick Subject: Re: Queen excluders In-Reply-To: note of 08/28/95 18:10 From: mick Thank you for the information. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:46:27 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: dance controversy >What is the current consensus on the "waggle dance" controversy? I thought >that the robot bee work reported in National Geographic a few years ago had >proved Von Frisch correct but I came across a recent book by Wenner and >Wells still arguing in favour of the odour hypothesis. No, from our perspective, the "robot bee" did not settle the issue, as reviewed in one of our papers (1991 Wenner, A.M., D. Meade, and L. J. Friesen. Recruitment, search behavior, and flight ranges of honey bees. American Zoologist. 31(6):768-782). Those who would focus on experiments with odor transport downwind from food sources and hive placement have a strong future for obtaining rewarding results. Next month I will be presenting the following abstract at the AMERICAN BEE RESEARCH CONFERENCE in Georgia (one that will be published in the December issue of the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL): --DRAFT-- ********* A recent claim (Webster & Caron, Bee Culture 123:403-406): "The evidence for dance language is strong," ignored 13 salient points published 21 years earlier in the same publication (Wells & Wenner, Gleanings in Bee Culture 102:110-111,127). I update and expand upon those points here. The dance maneuver information is not sufficiently accurate to account for supportive experimental results obtained by language proponents; rather, the experimental designs used apparently funnel recruits into "intended" sites. Von Frisch recognized in 1937 (Wenner, with von Frisch, Bee World 74:90-98) - that one gets no recruits with no odor. However, von Frisch (and others at the time) failed to perceive that his 1940s experiments lacked necessary controls against odor influencing results; later, his results did not survive tests in double-controlled and strong inference experiments. Only by using odor in single controlled experiments can one obtain supportive results; thus, one can no longer justifiably explain "positive" results with an uncritical assumption of "language." Recruit search behavior is remarkably inefficient. Most recruits require several flights out from the hive before locating the target food source, are in the air many times longer than necessary for a direct flight, and succeed only rarely unless one provides sufficient odor at the site. One can easily see that recruits always fly zigzag into a target site from far downwind (binoculars help). If an array of stations is provided, recruits end up near the center of all - although a slight wind blowing along a line of stations can alter an expected distribution. Despite dancing, recruitment more than 400m downwind from a hive is negligible unless many foragers make round trips and thereby provide an aerial pathway of odor. Crop-attached bees require no dancing for re-recruitment; they will immediately return to their foraging area on the basis of an odor stimulus alone. New recruits, by contrast, do not begin arriving in quantity until almost an hour after foragers begin regular trips and increase in frequency per unit time even if the number of dancing bees is held constant. Recruit success is thus dependent more upon the cumulative number of forager trips (with time and with odor accumulation in the hive) than upon the number of foragers involved. Success rate depends upon odor concentration but not upon Nasonov gland secretions at the food source or upon dance frequency in the hive. Finally, recruits attending disoriented dances (dances without direction information) can still find the "correct" site in the field. No one seems to dispute the above known facts, so clearly researchers have grossly neglected the role of odor in honey bee recruitment. Furthermore, no one seems willing to provide a concise scientific statement of the language hypothesis, one that can accommodate all known facts. For those who wish to understand foraging ecology, an increased emphasis on the role of odor in honey bee recruitment should be very rewarding. One can find a quite complete 1990 summary of most of the above points (Wenner & Wells, Anatomy of a Controversy: The Question of a "Language" Among Bees. Columbia University Press) and a brief 1991 exposition elsewhere (Wenner et al., American Zoologist 31:768-782). ******** I feel that one must give more than lip service to the role of odor, since it is a very tangible, measurable, and usable communication channel. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Department of Biology Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2838 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-4724 * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:13:30 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: how comb honey is produced In-Reply-To: <199508280216.VAA03860@indy3.indy.net> On Sun, 27 Aug 1995, Liz Day wrote: > I keep reading about 'foundations', made of plastic, which i imagine > are little press-out forms for the bees to make comb on -? > But the comb honey I bought was in a little square wooden frame about > 5" square, and it was all wax inside. How are these things obtained? > (I have never actually seen a hive, or inside one, so in my > imagination everything is rather amorphous!) > Thanks, Hi Liz, I think you may be getting accidently mislead here. Foundation is the very thin innermost 'core' of the comb and is used mainly to get the bees to make the comb where *we* want it, not where *they* think is a good place, i.e., we'd like it in the frames please and not at right angles to them ;-) Most of the foundation used by beekeepers is natural beeswax. Plastic foundation is more expensive but more robust, so has some strength and longevity advantages. This is particularly true when we extract the honey -- normally done in a kind of centrifuge. When we get our bees to make the comb in the little square (or round) frames, or when we cut the comb into boxes or jars, I think I can safely say the foundation we give them is *always* natural beeswax, not plastic. (Beeswax is edible, if sometimes a little chewy.) Certain types of plastic *comb* are claimed to reduce the rate at which varroa breeds. This stuff is pretty expensive and probably only used in the brood areas. Hope that clarifies things, regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk CompuServe 100332,3310 gordon@multitone.co.uk CompuServe 100070,413 Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:01:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Large observation hives & ibuprophin There are other, prescription drugs that one can take for some uses of ibuprofen. Ask the doctor.. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:35:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: propolis off clothes I don't know about propolis specifically. But other stains that come off with alcohol have the problem that if you aren't careful, the stain spreads and gets much bigger when you apply the alcohol, then never comes out. Apply the alcohol sparingly to test. Put a blotting cloth under the fabric to soak up the excess - so the excess alcohol goes through the clothing and onto the paper towel or rag, not sideways out into the clothing. Hope it works! (Prayer has often worked for my stains!) Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:48:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: how comb honey is produced Do you also make bee handlotion? Some people at the fair said they did not but that other beekeepers do. Thank you for the comb info. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 17:03:44 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Adams Subject: Re: how comb honey is produced In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 1995 15:48:17 EST." <199508292048.PAA02028@indy2.indy.net> Liz: RE: Lotions....its on my list to things to do WHEN I GET A bang bang ROUND_TUIT Haven't even done much with beeswax yet! kla@cc.purdue.edu - Ken Adams ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 18:35:43 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: propolis off clothes You might want to try the cheapest hair spray you can find at your local drug store . Just spray it on the propolis and soak it in warm water . This works great for ink stains . Marion L.Bristow - Jefe , Seccion Informatica Agriculture Sciences Campus Universidad de Concepcion , Campus Chillan Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 21:13:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Pollen Type? Composed on floppy (ASCII) & sent via ASCII Protocol Pollen type? 1. My bees are bringing in a yellow-orange pollen. 2. Color approximates a hardboiled egg yolk interior. 3. Any ideas as to floral source? 4. I can't see anything in bloom around here in great abundance--a few flowers in the garden. 5. I do know corn pollen: it's a much lighter yellow w/no orange mix. 6. Thanks in advance. Jack the B-man 10 mi W of Balto 60 min N of La Casa Blanca Pollen collector since 1982. Running seven traps of best make out there. PS MD is NOT pollen country. ******************************* John Iannuzzi PhD * Howard Honey Farms RR8 * 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * Ellicott City (founded 1772) * Maryland usa 21042 * ******************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 23:44:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Pheromone and pollination In a message dated 95-08-29 11:09:25 EDT, Dr. Wenner responds to a query by Clarice Sakamoto: >Subj: Re: Pheromone and pollination >Date: 95-08-29 11:09:25 EDT >From: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > >From: wenner@LIFESCI.LSCF.UCSB.EDU (Adrian Wenner) >>I'm in Ribeirao Preto city, Sao Paulo state, in Brazil and I would >>like to >>receive any information about pheromones and scents in >>pollination crops. >>I'm Clarice Sakamoto, a post-graduate student and just now I'm >>begining a pollination research in farm crops and in green-house. I >>would be pleasured to maintain contact with somebody or any lab >>who sells bee-here or other kind of pheromone. > Before you purchase any such product, you should read an article >that appeared in the April issue of the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL >("An evaluation of selected commercial bee attractants in the >pollination of cucumbers and watermelons"). One of their >conclusions: "Neither product significantly >increased bee activity on the subject vine crops when compared to >an untreated control nor did they increase the value of the >subsequent harvest." (in their abstract). > > Our experience so far has been that there is no such thing as a >general honey bee attractant chemical, which is good --- colonies >can then switch from one crop to another with relative efficiency. I concur, Dr. Wenner, as this is borne out in my own experience as a commercial pollinator. Several of my clients have tried Bee Scent (trademark), (on watermelons and cantaloupes) and generally have concluded that the benefits do not justify the cost. Dr. Roger Morse, in an article a couple years ago in Bee Culture, reviewed some of the latest trials, and commented, "There is no substitute for strong hives." One of the saddest things I have seen, is the use of bee attractant pheromones by growers, on the assumption that bees are *out there* and will come. Bees are not out there, especially in this part of the country, and they have completely wasted their money, by making a false assumption. Bee scents can only be used when one is certain there are bees in the area, and that usually means deliberately placed. When I have investigated complaints of bees working poorly, it usually boils down to one of three things: 1. Beekeeper fraud -- Two frames of bees with a caged queen do not a pollination hive make. 'Nuff said. 2. Sick bees -- Bees are neglectfully managed, and have mites or foulbrood. I know one commercial beekeeper in the southeast that was running about 75% AFB, which takes a LOT of neglect. He is out of business now, but sadly, abandoned a lot of equipment. Thank God for wax worms. 3. Bees not managed for pollination. Sometimes it is just a case of beekeepers trying to make honey, and pick up a pollination fee on the side. Since the management practices are different for each purpose, one or the other must suffer. I've also seen bees provided (for free) for growers who thought they were getting a marvelous deal. You'd see dead hives right alongside hives that were honeybound. Beekeepers, who show up twice a year..... If a grower calls me and says the bees are not working up to par, you'd better believe I am there the next day, and the problem gets fixed pronto. Generally it involves something that stops the queen from laying. Hives that are honeybound or hungry will stop the queen. Excessive heat, or drought, or a rainy spell, can stop nectar sources and shut down the queen. Sometimes we even need to feed syrup to keep the queen going. Whatever it takes; that is what a good pollinator has got to do. I must keep as much open brood as possible, as that is what demands more pollen collection, and keeps the field bees deliberately gathering pollen. I have not had experience with greenhouse pollination. I only know from a friend who has done some, that honeybees used for this purpose will decline and have to be replaced frequently. More and more bumblebees are being used in greenhouses. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 22:40:40 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kim Patten Subject: Re: Pollen Type? At 09:13 PM 8/29/95 -0400, you wrote: >Composed on floppy (ASCII) >& sent via ASCII Protocol > >Pollen type? > >1. My bees are bringing in >a yellow-orange pollen. > >2. Color approximates a >hardboiled egg yolk interior. > >3. Any ideas as to floral >source? IT could be false danelion. Do you have any of it around?? >bloom around here in great >abundance--a few flowers >in the garden. > >5. I do know corn pollen: >it's a much lighter yellow >w/no orange mix. > >6. Thanks in advance. > >Jack the B-man >10 mi W of Balto >60 min N of La Casa Blanca >Pollen collector since 1982. >Running seven traps of best >make out there. >PS MD is NOT pollen country. >******************************* >John Iannuzzi PhD * >Howard Honey Farms RR8 * >9772 Old Annapolis Rd * >Ellicott City (founded 1772) * >Maryland usa 21042 * >******************************* > > Kim Patten Washington State University Long Beach Research and Extension Unit Rt. 1, Box 570, Long Beach WA 98631 phone and fax 360-642-2031 e-mail pattenk@coopext.cahe.wsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:46:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Pollen Type? > From: JOHN IANNUZZI > 1. My bees are bringing in > a yellow-orange pollen. > 2. Color approximates a > hardboiled egg yolk interior. > 3. Any ideas as to floral > source? It's goldenrod season, at least around here is browningrod, no rain in the last 23 days of this month! They say it's the 3rd driest on record, I can't even imagine the other two! It kills me to see all the goldenrod wilting as I drive around, not that my bees in the bear's belly could use it, but the goldenrod started a few weeks early and like gangbusters...8-{ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 01:55:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Large observation hives & ibuprophin > From: Ray Lackey > Also, one of our beekeepers is hasing a problem and her doctor wants to > put her on ibuprophin (?sp). She mentioned the understanding that this > medication can cause development of allergy to the bee stings. The > doctor asked for references. Can anyone help with references? My sister, the physical therapist in medical school, told me that ibruprophin is a non-steroidal, anti-inflamitory. I've never heard of people having problems other than the occasional kidney problems/failure for overuse or just plain bad reaction to it. I regularly take Seldane D and more days than not I'm popping ibruprophin too for my sinus problems. I've been stung a few times with no adverse affect...actually since I'm on anti-histamine, the stings are fairly mild - a pin prick, followed by an hour or two of a mild pain, then on to that damned itching! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | The information on the Internet is only University Of Scranton | interesting to people who are interested Scranton, Pennsylvania | in it. dave@scranton.com | -Scranton Tomorrow Spokeswoman ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | refusing invitation to Internet Cafe's opening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:44:25 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Old product for Nosema (was New product?) Kerry Clark wrote, in part: > The name given was NOSEMACK. It is apparently applied in tablet form > into syrup. > The active ingredient was read to me, as not Fumagillin, but (this is no > joke) aestylmescurithiosalcylsaure-nairlorasaka, or thicanersal. John E. Taylor III answered: > I'd guess the English version of the product Kerry mentions would > be "acetylmercurithiosalicylic acid". Because it has mercury in it, > the US FDA would probably be reluctant to approve it. It's quite correct but the german aestyl=ethyl in english; thus this drug real correct name is "ethylmercury-thiosalicylic acid". You'll also find it under the name "Thimerosal". I knew about this drug for more than 30 years : it was in use in Belgium but disappeared with Fumagillin(Fumidil). This drug is toxic for the Nosema but also for the bees and the human ! Seems actually its use is authorized in Germany yet but I'm sure it isn't in Belgium. Once more, the solution is to find (and keep) bees not too sensitive to Nosema ! IMHO the Carnica and related one are too much ! Jean-Marie Local blooming informations ... Long. : 4deg 56' E - Lat. : 50deg 30' N - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km For us this year ... It's the end of the bee's time ... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jean-Marie Van Dyck Fax +32 81 72 42 72 B.P. 102 email : jmvandyck@quick.cc.fundp.ac.be B-5000 NAMUR(Belgium) Medical school - Biochemistry dept This => C'est ma facon de parler ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 07:26:22 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: References regarding IBUPROFIN and Bee Stings Saved from this list a few suns and many moons ago: >--------------------------< REPRINTED FROM: MISSISSIPPI DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND COMMERCE BUREAU OF PLANT INDUSTRY P.O. BOX 5207 MISSISSIPPI STATE, MS APRIL, 1993 The following is an interesting and need-to-know article printed in the Maryland Beekeeping newsletter with the per- mission of the author. It is taken from the book "Under- standing Prescription Drugs", by Dorthy L. Smith, Pharm D., pp. 270 and 271; Reference: British Medical Journal 292:378, 1986. DID YOU KNOW THAT? Beekeepers should think twice before taking some anti- inflammatory drugs. The drugs may reverse their immunity to bee stings. During the last few years, several new nonsteroidal anti- inflammatory drugs have been developed to relieve pain and reduce stiffness, swelling and joint pain associated with inflammation. Such drugs include ibuprofen, fenoprofen, naproxen, ketoprofen, sulindac, piroxicam, suprofen and tolmetin. It is well known that beekeepers develop an immunity to bee stings and it has been reported that some people get tempo- rary relief from the pain of arthritis if they sustain se- veral bee stings. Two cases have recently been reported of people with an immunity to bee stings taking a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug and suffering serious allergic re- actions to bee and wasp stings. A 66-year old beekeeper had developed an apparent immunity to bee stings over six years. She was prescribed a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug for osteoarthrosis. A few months after taking the drug, she was stung on the wrists while working around the beehives and within 15 min- utes developed heart palpitations, a rash and swelling of the mouth and tounge, making it difficult for her to breath. She stopped taking the drug and 48 hours later when she was stung again, she developed no reaction. Another report describes the 48-year old wife of a beekeeper who had been taking a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug for five months for osteoarthritis. She had previously had only skin reactions to wasp stings but one day she developed widespread swelling, red, itchy rash, heart palpitations and shortness of breath within two minutes of being stung by a wasp. Hospitalization was necessary. Until more is learned about the reason for these reactions, beekeepers should be aware of potential hazards associated with these drugs and bee stings. John P. Wrosch E.A.S. Master Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 09:05:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Thigpen Subject: Stings In-Reply-To: <01HUO0SUINPK91X9BA@JAGUAR.UOFS.EDU> The ibuprofin thread has piqued my interest in the whole subject of stings and remedies. Has anyone here used tobacco, applied topically, with any significant results? This is helpful when dealing with large numbers of ant bites; is the venom similar? Michael R. Thigpen aa101015@midnet.csd.scarolina.edu "All the fun's in how you say a thing." *Robert Frost* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:05:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Edward Southwick From: MARYJO@ACSPR1.ACS.BROCKPORT.EDU (Mary Jo Orzech): > With great sadness, I report to members of the Bee-l >community the death of Edward E. Southwick, last Tues. 8/22/95. >Dr. Southwick was a much loved teacher, instructor and friend. >He was an internationally recognized bee expert and taught >at the State University of New York at Brockport since 1977. >Ed was also the founder and co-owner of Bee-l, which was created >as a means for bee researchers to communicate and keep in touch >around the world. While aware of his work, I did not know Dr. Southwick personally. I did however know some of his beekeeping students, and he was a gifted teacher, appreciated and respected. I know of one who had little interest in bees, who simply took the course because it sounded neat, (and perhaps to fulfill a requirement) She got really charged up, and last I knew, was still keeping bees. Those of us who are beneficiaries of the information age, owe him a great debt of gratitude, for he was one of the pioneers in bringing computor technology into this ancient craft. He will be sadly missed. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green PO Box 1215, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 10:21:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Queen Storage On page 246 of Eva Crane's Bees and Beekeeping, she briefly talks about storing many queens (in boxes)in hives for later use. Has anyone tried this and with what success? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A., 32 hives ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:29:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Timothy S. Sterrett" Subject: Re: Plastic Hive Parts In-Reply-To: <199508300413.AAA19155@locke.ccil.org> Plastic hives: Plastic bottom boards warp but they are so tough and resistant to rot and insect damage that I have just put my six colonies back onto them. The better-constructed ones have a tab in the center of the hive entrance which helps keep the warping under control. The tab also makes designing and installing winter entrance-reducers more of a challenge. Plastic hive bodies seem to work fine and are tough. They may warp, too. I've had to tighten some corners by using bigger nails. The smooth sides go on the *inside* of the hive body. One of the ones I was given had been put together inside out. Plastic inner covers do not work; I stopped using them. They warp. I suspect they may have water condense on them in winter which the warp then funnels to drip onto the cluster of bees below. Plastic outer covers work fine for me. They seem indestructible. All of my plastic hive parts were given to me; I do not know who made/sold them. I would like to hear more about molded/drawn plastic combs. Do they really last forever? Can plastic foundation (which mice have chewed the wax from) be reused if has a thin layer of beeswax poured or wiped onto it? Tim Sterrett Westtown School Westtown, Pennsylvania 19395-1799 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:04:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: waxing foundation > Can plastic foundation (which mice have chewed the wax from) be >reused if has a thin layer of beeswax poured or wiped onto it? I have often wondered if a product made in the US by I believe Presto could be used to wax plastic foundation. It is an electric handheld sprayer that you put a stick of butter in. The butter is melted and then you can spray it on your foods. Could this work with wax? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund Gainesville, Fla. U.S.A., 32 hives ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:44:29 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Roddy Subject: Honeybee comb building Hello all-- A professor at the university asked me to forward this request to you. I'm a reference librarian, and beekeeper myself in Puna, on the Island of Hawai'i. Kevin-- I am looking for *documented references* to books, periodicals or research reports which give answers to the following question: What makes the cells of honeybee combs hexagonal? I'm not especially interested in unreferenced opinions unless they're from apiculturists (bee people). I have plenty of unreferenced opinions of my own. But I would welcome opinions from apiculturalists, or information they may have found when reading about bees (even ifthese reference are out of date.) The two main theories are 1) Geometry: bees try to make cylindrical cells, but close-packing forces the cells into hexagonal shapes, and 2) Instinct: that bees have a specific instinct to build hexagons when cells are near each other. (Single queen cells are cylindrical.) Buffon argued for geometry in the 1750s, Lord Brougham for instinct in the 1830s, D'Arcy Thompson for geometry in 1913, and von Frisch for instinct in 1974. Does anyone know of further references or for scholars who are currently or have recently examined this problem (either in published form or unpublished manuscripts? You may send mail directly to me at the e-mail address below. Thank you in advance for any information you can provide. Ron Amundson Univ. of Hawaii at Hilo Hilo, HI 96720 ronald@hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:28:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Queen Storage Kelley, It's called queen banking. When I get in queens they come in a RiteWay shipper that holds 104 to a box. If we use them that day I'll leave them in the box. The queens are all in Calif. Mini-cages (great product) that only have the queen (no attendants, the bees are shook from a few frames into the box outside of the cage) and the sugar tube is replaced with a cork. I like to use masking tape instead of the candy plug. If I'm keeping them without use for a while they can be placed in special frames that hold each cage facing outward like a small high-rise apartment building. These are placed inside a hive that the queen was removed and the house bees take care of them for a long time. Lately I've been placing the shipper in a empty shallow box and placing a shallow framed divide on top of that with a few cello sponges inside for water and it has worked great. I put the unit on the back of my truck every day and have a continuous source of ready queens in cages and don't have to remove them from the special frames. They will last for weeks but I try to use them quickly. Hope that helps. Brian Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 22:32:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Plastic Hive Parts Tim, Your bees will draw out the waxless plastic foundation as is. They will not jump at the chance but it will beat rewaxing them because it doesn't make that much of a difference. That hexagon pattern must be raised as in Permadent or Dadant's Plasticel. Brian ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 14:27:34 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom_Elliott@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US Subject: Alaska Honeybee Gazebo The observation hive refered to was built by Cook Inlet Beekeepers Association at the Anchorage Zoo. I was not directly involved with either the construction or maineneance of the exibit. If you can give me some specific questions I will try to get answers for you. I do know that it has not worked out as well as was hoped. The logic of its operation, left something to be desired. There were a couple of two frame observation hives, one frame behind the other so only one side was visible. Bees tended to dwindle and were replenished from a couple of nearby hives (perhaps part of the cause of dwindling was field bees returning to the home they were familiar with). The whole operation was by and large designed and operated by one new beekeeper and one hobbiest with more love for than understanding of bees. Actually they did quite well as far as it went. The exibit was a great success with zoo visitors. Fletcher Miller, a more capable and thoughtful beekeeper will be making some changes which will leave a queen limited to a single side of one frame. That side will be the visible exibit. Behind her will be a full hive with its own queen. A two queen colony with one queen limited to one side of one frame. The details I do not know. Fletcher also designed and built a nine frame two-queen observation hive. It is set up so each queen has access to one side of all nine frames. They are essentially two separate hives. They have access to flight through a duct through the roof. This seems to be doing quite well and is also quite popular. It is on exibit in the Anchorqage Imaginarium. Ray, for any more information you would like contact me either through the list or at the address below. Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska Tom_Elliott_at_ANCAV1@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 16:42:38 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Sheppard Subject: Re: Pollen Type? check and see if there are any sumac bushies around this plant has a pollen like you are seeing bill sheppard NCDAMAIL ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 08:33:26 CST6CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Rodney L. Holloway" Organization: Ag. and Environmental Safety Subject: Sevin XLR Anyone have information on Sevin XLR and effect on honey bees. Rodney Holloway ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:04:36 GMT Reply-To: Al_Karaki@bridges.co.za Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Karaki Organization: EduTech Subject: test - a serious test! testing 23-24-25 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:14:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Morris Subject: Beekeeping MB - Update I just finished talking to Mr. John Dalrymple, Director, Advancments. He told me that in response to the number of letters and telephone calls received regarding Beekeeping merit badge, the Advancement Committee will re-examine it at their next meeting in early October. Hurrah! The Advancement Committee meets three times a year. If a merit badge falls below 1000 earned per year it is examined by the committee. If it shows no sign of improvement over three to five years, it is dropped. About 700-800 Beekeeping MBs have been earned per year for the last four or five years. We only need are about 300 more per year! Read Dr. Dewey Caron's article in Bee Culture, October 1994. The key is to get it organized, set a date, keep down the cost to the Scout, and to get the word to the local District Roundtable. Mr. Dalrymple's fax number is 214-580-2502. Don't just keep up the pressure. PLEDGE TO ACT!!! PLAN TO HAVE SCOUTS AT YOUR NEXT SHORT COURSE! Cheers, David Morris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:04:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Veldhuis Subject: Re: Ibuprophin In-Reply-To: <01HUO0SUINPK91X9BA@JAGUAR.UOFS.EDU> from "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" at Aug 30, 95 01:55:49 am > > Also, one of our beekeepers is hasing a problem and her doctor wants to > > put her on ibuprophin (?sp). She mentioned the understanding that this > > medication can cause development of allergy to the bee stings. The > > doctor asked for references. Can anyone help with references? > ChecK "the Canadian guide to perscription drugs" which cites some annecdotal evidence and warns persons who are likely to be stung while on the non-sterodial ant-inflamatory drugs. Phil Veldhuis | If I must be a fool, as all those who reason Winnipeg. MB, Canada | or believe any thing certainly are, my follies veldhui@cc.umanitoba.ca | shall at least be natural and agreeable. David Hume (1739) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 16:23:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James D. Satterfield" Subject: What is "liquid paraffin" I checked on a formula for a handlotion listed in Eva Crane's "Bees and Beekeeping.." and forwarded the information to Liz Day. The formula calls for "liquid paraffin". I don't know what that is. In the USA, the paraffin used for canning and candle-making is a white, solid wax. I think that "paraffin" in the UK is equivalent to "kerosene" in the USA, but I don't think kerosene goes into the handlotion! Is "liquid paraffin" possibly what is termed "mineral oil" in the USA?? Any ideas?? Thanks, Jim ----------------------------------------------------- | James D.Satterfield | jsatt@gsu.edu or | | P.O. Box 2243 | biojdsx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu | | Decatur, GA 30031 USA | Telephone 404 378-8917 | ----------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:14:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Fell Subject: Re: What is "liquid paraffin" James: The liquid paraffin is probably paraffin oil, what we commonly refer to as a mineral oil. >I checked on a formula for a handlotion listed in Eva Crane's "Bees and >Beekeeping.." and forwarded the information to Liz Day. > >The formula calls for "liquid paraffin". I don't know what that is. In >the USA, the paraffin used for canning and candle-making is a white, >solid wax. I think that "paraffin" in the UK is equivalent to "kerosene" >in the USA, but I don't think kerosene goes into the handlotion! > >Is "liquid paraffin" possibly what is termed "mineral oil" in the USA?? >Any ideas?? > >Thanks, > >Jim > > >----------------------------------------------------- >| James D.Satterfield | jsatt@gsu.edu or | >| P.O. Box 2243 | biojdsx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu | >| Decatur, GA 30031 USA | Telephone 404 378-8917 | >----------------------------------------------------- Rick Fell Associate Professor Department of Entomology Virginia Tech Blacksburg,Virginia 24061 Tel. (540) 231-7207 e-mail: rfell@vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:20:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wendy Lewis Subject: Re: What is "liquid paraffin" re:liquid paraffin Dear Jim, I just checked with my husband, who is English, and in England, paraffin indeed refers to kerosene. I'd wager that the liquid paraffin mentioned in the recipe is melted paraffin. Wendy hobbyist beekeeper Mission Viejo, California ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:37:19 CST Reply-To: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Marion L.Bristow" Subject: Re: What is "liquid paraffin" Paraffin also is kerosene down here ( just a conformation ). If you use it on your hands ... don!t smoke ! Marion L.Bristow - Jefe , Seccion Informatica Agriculture Sciences Campus Universidad de Concepcion , Campus Chillan Casilla 537 Chillan , Chile e-mail: mbristow@palomo.chillan.udec.cl ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:10:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Liz's hand lotion Liz, If your going to stick your hands in kerosene I'm with Marion, please give up cigarettes! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:11:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Tassey Subject: Re: Sevin XLR Rodney, What I know is that it is not as lethal as the other formulations of Sevin. It's LD50 is 26.5 where the LD50 for Sevin SL is 13.7. It's residual toxicity to honey bee populations in cage tests is less time depending on rates (hours as opposed to days). All in all though it is still belongs in a class that is highly toxic and if it's possible to avoid I'd do it. I've never sat through a spray job using the material the growers have opted for others. Brian Tassey Kaykin@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 21:15:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Liz's hand lotion I'm sure they don't mean kerosene, it's not an ingredient in any handlotion I ever saw. Paraffin wax is at least plausible. Kerosene smells horrible! Liz Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Pink Inchworm Ranch and Couturier Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:09:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Keith Murray Subject: Re: Honeybee comb building In-Reply-To: On Wed, 30 Aug 1995, Kevin Roddy wrote: > Hello all-- > > A professor at the university asked me to forward this request to you. > I'm a reference librarian, and beekeeper myself in Puna, on the Island of > Hawai'i. > > Kevin-- > > > I am looking for *documented references* to books, periodicals > or research reports which give answers to the following question: > > > What makes the cells of honeybee combs hexagonal? > > > I'm not especially interested in unreferenced opinions > unless they're from apiculturists (bee people). I have plenty of > unreferenced opinions of my own. But I would welcome opinions from > apiculturalists, or information they may have found when reading > about bees (even ifthese reference are out of date.) > > The two main theories are 1) Geometry: bees try to make > cylindrical cells, but close-packing forces the cells into > hexagonal shapes, and 2) Instinct: that bees have a specific > instinct to build hexagons when cells are near each other. > (Single queen cells are cylindrical.) > > Buffon argued for geometry in the 1750s, Lord Brougham for > instinct in the 1830s, D'Arcy Thompson for geometry in 1913, and > von Frisch for instinct in 1974. > > Does anyone know of further references or for scholars who are > currently or have recently examined this problem (either in published > form or unpublished manuscripts? > > You may send mail directly to me at the e-mail address below. > > Thank you in advance for any information you can provide. > > Ron Amundson > Univ. of Hawaii at Hilo > Hilo, HI 96720 > ronald@hawaii.edu > Sometimes it is instuctive to look at the negative. What other shapes could they reasonably make? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Murray * Don't worry about people stealing St.Mary's Academy * an idea. If it's original, you 550 Wellington cres. * will have to ram it down their Winnipeg, Manitoba * throats. -H. Aiken ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~