Date sent: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 05:58:28 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1 (1.8b)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9601" To: Allen Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 07:35:37 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Repost: Virgin Queens I am quoting this unmarked original in its entirety, seeing as the original was unreadable - on many readers- due to long lines. Allen ... -------------------- I have posted this message on behalf of Brian Grant, Please send any replies,etc. to me. Thank you --------------------- Virgin queens in large colonies take a long time to mate - why? It is widely recognised that virgin queens in small colonies, such as nuclei, mate and start laying much sooner than virgins in large colonies, but there seems to be no accepted reason for this effect. Is there even any hard data on the time taken for mating to occur in different sized colonies? In most cases the situation of having a virgin in a large colony will only arise if the beekeeper has gone through the stock cutting out queen cells, if nature had taken her course then presumably successive virgins would have left with groups of workers until only a small colony remained. So possibly the pattern evolved to protect the first virgins to emerge since if they were mated they would be less able to defend themselves in fights with younger virgins. This seems to imply that the virgin has some mechanism which tells her that she is part of a large colony and should delay mating, or vice-versa; but that she has no mechanism for detecting other queens in the colony unless she comes into close contact with them or hears quarking. This last suggestion is supported by the work on 2 queens survival by Butz & Dietz (J Ap Res 33(2) 87-94, 1994). How can she tell that she is part of a large colony? Could we manipulate it to get her to mate more quickly? I can think of two possible exceptions to the general rule. In the case of supersedure do we have any information on the time needed for the virgin to mate? What is different in this case, could it be that the time of year is relevant? Or do supersedure queens sometimes delay, become drone-layers and get thrown out? The late C B Dennis praised the Dutch "Aalst" system of management; in one stage of this many virgins are released from the cells at the same time into the hive. He believed that in this case the virgins were harried by workers until the fittest was selected and implicitly she then mated without untoward delay. Comments welcome, hard data even more welcome. Brian Gant ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Darren Jefford | | Home Page : http://www.lookup.com/Homepages/53698//home.html | | E - Mail : dajd@g8gon.zynet.co.uk Telephone : +44 (0)1395 264872 | |---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Join the ACCU (Association of C and C++ Users). | | For more information visit my Home page or email info@accu.org | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Happy Christmas and have a even better New Year ! | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 13:02:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Virgin Queens >In most cases the situation of having a virgin in a large colony will only arise if the beekeeper has gone through the stock cutting out queen cells, if nature had taken her course then presumably successive virgins would have left with groups of workers until only a small colony remained. So possibly the pattern evolved to protect the first virgins to emerge since if they were mated they would be less able to defend themselves in fights with younger virgins. I can't answer all of these questions, but will try some of them. Usually the first virgin out will kill the rest! It is most rare to find a single virgin left in a large colony.In most cases after swarms don't happen. Introducing Virgins is always a risky venture! We have found that we need only sealed brood, no eggs, young emerging brood, and only a small amount of bees. In other words the same situation as exists in a swarmed hive. Under these conditions we have a pretty good sucess rate.If you change any one of these factors then the mating sucess rate drops rapidly. The main trigger seems to be emerging brood and the weather. If you have a series of bad days around mating time then the virgins don't get out to mate, and she ends up dry, about 5 days is the pivotal point. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 20:24:19 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: for Hugo V. Sorry, I lost your address. Can you mail me again? Thanks, Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 01:24:45 GMT Reply-To: Karl_L._Webber@ieaust.org.au Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Karl L. Webber" Organization: Institution of Engineers, Australia Subject: Hand Lotion G'day bee people, I have been trying to make a hand lotion using beeswax, as yet without success. Can anyone help with a suitable recipe? Best Regards Dev Webber ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:41:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David De Jong Subject: Program of II Encontro sobre Abelhas - Ribeirao Preto, SP, Brazil The Second National Symposium concerning bees will be held at USP in Ribeirao Preto, Sao Paulo, Brazil June 6-9, 1996, along with an International Symposium of IUSSI - International Union for the Study of Social Insects Prof. Carlos A. Garofalo is the president of the organizing committee. This will be mostly in Portuguese, though many speakers from overseas will give their talks in English. Here I give the original titles and translations to English where appropriate: Opening Talk: Os heteroalelos XO nas populacoes de abelhas by Warwick E. Kerr (The XO heteroalleles in bee populations) Symposium I. Metodologia para caracterizacao de polimorfismos em abelhas (Methodology for the characterization of polymorphisms in bees) chaired by Prof. Zila Luz Paulino Simoes speakers to be announced Oral communications - Talks by four grad students - selected from papers sent. Symposium II. Ultra-estrutura, Citoquimica e Bioquimica de Sistemas de Abelhas (Ultrastructure, Cytochemistry and Biochemistry of Bee Systems) chaired by Prof. Carminda da Cruz Landim speakers to be announced Invited Speaker - Dr. Jesus Santiago Moure (specialist in numerical taxonomy of bees) Symposium III. Biogeografia e Estrutura de Comunidades (Biogeography and the structure of Communities) chaired by Dr. Joao Maria Franco de Camargo speakers to be announced Dave Roubik is invited Oral communications by 4 grad students Symposium IV Polinizacao (Pollination) chaired by Prof. Regina Helena Nogueira Couto speakers to be announced Posters and Discussion Symposium V Reproductive strategies in bees: polygyny and laying workers some european researchers were invited chaired by Prof. Vera Lucia Imperatriz Fonseca Invited speaker: Dr. Paulo Nogueira Neto - specialist in ecology and management of stingless bees Four papers by grad students Symposium VI 40 anos de abelhas africanizadas no Brasil (40 years of africanized bees in Brazil) chaired by Prof. Lionel Segui Goncalves Speakers Ademilson E.E. Soares Swarming and Dispersal Lionel Segui Goncalves Opening Remarks Antonio Carlos Stort Defensive Behavior David De Jong Management of Africanized bees Alfred Dietz (from USA) Ecology and Distribution of Africanized Honey Bees Thomas Rinderer (from USA) Foraging behavior and honey production of Africanized honey bees. Invited Speaker Dr. Walter Steven Sheppard Symposium VII Social Biology of the bees in the Tropics. chaired by Dr. Wolf Engels from Germany Wolf Engels - Opening remarks Robin Moritz & Robert Page - Genetics and Cytogenetics of the sex locus Robert Paxton - Sociality and Genomic Diversity Wolfgang Wilms - Bees and their trees - a reproductive web Dieter Wittman & Clemens Schlindwein - Flower manipulation by bees Peter Rosenkranz - Varroatosis in the paleo and neotropics. If anyone needs information about how to send papers - I can send the information via e-mail Costs for registration are: undergrad students R$20,00 grad students R$30,00 Professionals R$50,00 until March 4, 1996 after which prices are increased by 50% checks made out to Evandro Camillo from overseas the prices can be converted at a 1:1 rate to US$. Address for further contacts: Profa. Dra. Zila Luz Paulino Simoes Secretaria do II Encontro Sobre Abelhas-Ribeirao Preto FFCLRP-USP 14.049-901 Ribeirao Preto, SP BRASIL Fone (016) 633 1010 Ramal 546 Fax (016) 633 5015 (international fax 55 16 633 5015) e-mail zlpsimoe@usp.br Prepared by David De Jong University of Sao Paulo Ribeirao Preto Campus January 3, 1996 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 10:54:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Honey request. We have received a request from the Web pages for honey in Washington State. Would somebody in that area pick up and service this request. Snail mail address: J Holmes 4700 Collins Rd., West Richland, Washington, 99353 He has requested 30 lbs. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 15:54:38 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom_Elliott@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US Subject: Pollen for hobbiests only I do not sell pollen, not even, less than 50 lbs. I harvest only a little for my own use, and some for winter/spring supplement. What I do harvest I do not dry at all. I keep it frozen. I know that for personal use I don't care for dried pollen, and it is so much easier to feed back to the bees in the winter/spring from a frozen condition. I did buy some frozen pollen from a local health food store long ago. It cost more than I can imagine spending. Have any of you hobbiests looked into the "Frozen Pollen" market? It looks to me that there is more potential income, and one less processing step. And the product is tastier! Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:16:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Requeening 3jan96 Happy New Year! REQUEENING THIS MESSAGE IS FOR THE NEW HOBBY B-KEEPER ONLY. 1. This is a my 36th cosecutive year as a beekeeper. I have never requeened, feeling that the bees know more about it than I do. (Richard Taylor, who has been keeping bees longer than I, actually made a similar statement one year in his monthly column and was naturally? immediately excoriated by Southern queen breeders.) 2. Requeening theory: a new queen is more vigorous than the old, will start laying more and faster leading to a greater hive population resulting in greater honey production per hive. 3. Last April I helped a man, who's been keeping bees for about five years and believes in requeening every year, requeen more than 10 hives. His "old" one-year queens he started to pinch until I asked for them. 3. My hive population jumped from 12 to 20 hives. 4. Shud U requeen? U pays yer money and U take ur cherce. Jack the B-man ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:39:50 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Requeening Confusion Comments: To: ohbee-l@sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu Gentlepeople: Neat testimonial from Jack the B-man about is 36 years without regular requeening. As a rather new hobbyist, I am set to go either direction. To requeen or not to requeen, that is the question. I can think, in my limited experience and knowledge, that the use of known stock with known characteristics would enable the beekeeper to have some(?) control over the performance of his bees and, in order to maintain that control, requeening would be used to maintain the characteristics desired. Therefore, requeening would be desirable to maintain the "purity" of the stock. On the other hand, allowing the bees to "grow their own" and repopulating dead hives from splits including eggs or swarms, would allow ones colonies to adapt to particular local circumstances, which might enhance survival. Hmmmm.....interesting choice. What is the consensus of opinion? Mark Egloff Dayton, Ohio USA 2 hives, 3 years experience. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 14:20:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Requeening Confusion In-Reply-To: <9600038206.AA820698081@cscuuxch.dayton.csc.com> It all depends on how intensively you want to keep bees. Some people like a "natural" let alone system, while others strive to maximize production. I don't think there is any question that a young queen can lay more than an old one, nor is there a question as to increased honey production- there have been plenty of studies on this. The Israelis have even published a paper showing that there is a production advantage with very young (< 1 yr. old) queens. Our experience agrees with this paper but I have no data. Regarding the idea of making splits and allowing the nuc to raise their own queen. Queens raised from emergency cells can be inferior. It would be better to use a nuc with q-cells produced under the swarming instinct. How ever even this practice is less productive than introducing a laying queen. Usually nucs made for increase are started prior to the honey flow. The advantage of an additional 2.5-3 weeks of egg production easily offsets the price of a laying queen. The difference here in New York is that a nuc started with a q-cell will make little or no honey till the fall flow (sept.), a nuc (4-5 fr.) made with a laying queen usually makes 1-2 shallows of summer honey and a normal fall crop. We make hundreds of nucs each year and have consistantly observed this. As to the bees acclimating to your area, this is generally true but can be compromised if other beekeepers in your area are bringing in queens from elsewhere. Try to isolate your matings. The drones are just as important as the virgins. I am new to this list so most of you do not know me. My wife Carole and I keep about 700 colonies in Western New York and have been breeding for tracheal mite resistance since '92. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 15:17:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Verville Subject: Information on Varroa Comments: To: att!BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU I am looking for text information that I can hand out during our bee school next month. I need information on both mites, what they are, how to find and how we try to treat the hive. So instead of reinventing the wheel and writing all this stuff down, Does anyone have this already in a computer some where and could email me a copy. Dave Verville att!mvtowers!mvdfv ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 15:29:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kevin Grabow Subject: Re: Requeening Confusion I re-queen every other year based on the research done at the U of MN. I think it's important, just like any stockman would want to build up his/her herd with the best bulls. I would, however like to re-queen with my own queens using AI, that way I would know the characteristics of my queens, but that's down the road. I think for 1996 I will use certain queens from Canada, see if they are better than what I get from Texas. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 14:38:41 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Cells vs. Mated Queens I'm glad to see this subject brought up. I've been thinking a lot on this matter and corresponding with some breeders about this off-list. I've also been planning to bring more on this question to the list shortly, but have been too busy to organise a detailed post. > It all depends on how intensively you want to keep bees. Some > people like a "natural" let alone system, while others strive to maximize > production. Good point - maximizing production doesn't necessarily mean maximizing profit. > I don't think there is any question that a young queen can > lay more than an old one, nor is there a question as to increased honey > production- there have been plenty of studies on this. The Israelis > have even published a paper showing that there is a production advantage > with very young (< 1 yr. old) queens. Our experience agrees with this > paper but I have no data. This will depend on the timing and duration of the flows. Large populations can be a benefit if timed right, but can eat you out of house and home if they occur at the wrong time. > Regarding the idea of making splits and allowing the nuc to raise > their own queen. Queens raised from emergency cells can be inferior. It > would be better to use a nuc with q-cells produced under the swarming > instinct. How ever even this practice is less productive than introducing > a laying queen. Usually nucs made for increase are started prior to the > honey flow. The advantage of an additional 2.5-3 weeks of egg production > easily offsets the price of a laying queen. Agreed as far as emergency cells is concerned. However, I wonder about the advantage of a laying queen over installing *ripe* cells on the same visit that the split is made. Assuming it takes about a week to introduce and get a laying queen going, and it takes normally 11 days for a ripe cell placed in a freshly split colony (with a protector) to emerge, mate, and lay some eggs (occasionally up to 21 in bad weather), there would seem to be less difference than most people think. And seeing as how in bad weather a mated queen will often stop laying for a few days, the difference narrows even more. Considering the relative cost of cells and mated queens and the amount of time and difficulty involved in installing one compared to the other, and also looking at the comparative success rate, I wonder how much difference there should be? > The difference here in New > York is that a nuc started with a q-cell will make little or no honey > till the fall flow (sept.), a nuc (4-5 fr.) made with a laying queen > usually makes 1-2 shallows of summer honey and a normal fall crop. We > make hundreds of nucs each year and have consistantly observed this. Observations certainly carry more weight than theory, so this is interesting; I wonder what accounts for these observable differences? I gather the cells you are using as comparison are not ripe at time of splitting? > I am new to this list so most of you do not know me. My wife > Carole and I keep about 700 colonies in Western New York and have been > breeding for tracheal mite resistance since '92. Glad to have you aboard, and appreciate your thoughful post. Hope to hear more of your thoughts here. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 23:47:03 GMT Reply-To: WaltonP@adrem.demon.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: Varroa: selection pressure thoughts On Wed, 27 Dec 1995 17:51:59 -0800, you wrote: >Sorry to have this break from the thread but I need to have someone >send me the verbatim command to sign off here as I am getting very >irritated at my lack of success with the Listserv. I have the original >FAQ I was sent a few years back but nothing is working (I'm still here). > >Thanks, > >Robbee - Try sending a SIGNOFF or an UNSUBSCRIBE to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. Paul Walton Bedfordshire, England. Email : Paul@Adrem.demon.co.uk 100524.3203@Compuserve.Com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 19:00:45 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Grubbs Subject: New to Beekeeping -- [ From: Charles Grubbs * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- I am new to beekeeping, and am very ignorant on the subject. I have read a couple of books from the local library, and have gathered as much information as I can get from the internet. I recently became interested in beekeeping as a hobby as something for myself and my 12 year old son to possibly do together. I know a man that used to keep bees ( he quit 8 years ago) and told him of my interest and asked for information on how to get started, he gave me a few references and told me a place to order equipment. But to my surprise the other day he called and told me that he went to check on a place that he had left a few of his old hives, and that one of them still contained bees! This hive has been unattended for 8 years. He told me that I could have the hive for free if I wanted it. I might also mention that I live in the state of Georgia, and that the winters are very mild here . So now I have a hive of questionable bees and don't know what I should do next. The hive is in very poor condition and I guess that the bees will need to be transferred to a new hive, but I don't know when or how to go about doing this. Can anyone suggest a good book that is definitely a required reading for beginners. Sorry for this lengthy post and thanks to all of you for keeping this area active for novices such as myself. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 18:12:46 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: New to Beekeeping > I am new to beekeeping, and am very ignorant on the subject. I have been a beekeeper for a quarter century or more and am still ignorant :) ( I can hear a few out there whisper 'Amen' ). Seems the bees don't read the books. > The hive is in very poor condition and I guess that the bees will need > to be transferred to a new hive, but I don't know when or how to go about > doing this. Can anyone suggest a good book that is definitely a required > reading for beginners. Here's a chance to plug the book list that Dave maintains at one of the beekeeping web sites (see sig). (Aside) If any of you have something worthwhile to put on the web, let me know and we'll publish it. > Sorry for this lengthy post and thanks to all of you for keeping this area > active for novices such as myself. Thank you for coming by and asking questions that we can answer. If you don't have web access, just say so and someone will mail you a copy of the book list Personally the only bee book I personally found right to the point was Walter T Kelley's "How to Keep Bees and Sell Honey". But there are others. The Hive and Honeybee - in its many reincarnations - is very good. The ABC & XYZ is getting better. As far as the bees and transferring them, don't bee too hasty. They may have lasted 8 years - or bee a swarm that moved in. If they chose the hive, they must like it. If you help them live there, they will make you some honey. In beekeeping, it's mostly what you *don't* do that counts. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 22:33:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Re: New to Beekeeping Welcome to the world of the hive! A very good book for the novice beekeeper is "The Queen and I" by Edward A. Weiss. I used this book 10 years ago when I started beekeeping. The reason I liked it was because it took you step by step through each season of beekeeping. I can be ordered through any of the large beekeeping suppliers. I keep bees here in CT and I also have a sideline bee removal buissness (from buildings) that keeps me busy in the spring and summer. If I can be of any help to you and answer any questions please feel free to e-mail me at harrisonrw@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 01:19:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: New to Beekeeping In-Reply-To: <9601040003.AA06199@tiger.avana.net> On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, Charles Grubbs wrote: > I am new to beekeeping, and am very ignorant on the subject. I have read a > couple of books from the local library, and have gathered as much > information as I can get from the internet. I recently became interested in > beekeeping as a hobby as something for myself and my 12 year old son to > possibly do together. I know a man that used to keep bees ( he quit 8 years > ago) Ask your bee friend all the questions he'll answer and have him show you some stuff, if he will. Experienced beekeepers are a great source of information. Also check out the various bee magazines available and ask your friend if he still has his old ones. Before I started I got a hold of three years (each) of AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL and BEE CULTURE and read them. I subscribe to BEE CULTURE, it's more user friendly for the beginner in my opinion. You'll learn a lot of stuff from just watching and checking on your bees. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, University Of Scranton | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | reaction is the alternative. ddc1@SCRANTON | -Daniel De Leon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 16:10:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: Re: Requeening Confusion In-Reply-To: <9600038206.AA820698081@cscuuxch.dayton.csc.com> from "Mark D. Egloff" at Jan 3, 96 11:39:50 am Re: Requeening I wouldn't be confused at all about requeening if I were you. If your bees are in your backyard and you check them daily and you don't have very high expectations of them then you can let them requeen themselves. However, I consider requeening to be the most valuable management practice available to the beekeeper because if you requeen regularly you will get rid of much of the variability in your bees. By variability I mean unexplained colony deaths (winter in particular), excessive swarming (every year after the second year of a queens life the colony is twice as likely to swarm), variable colony strengths, variable colony behavior, the list goes on and on. The only real trick is to figure out what time of year to requeen when it will cause the least disruption. A lot of books advocate spring requeening but we have a May honey flow in North Carolina and spring requeening can be disasterous. I wait until the flow is over and queens are cheaper to boot. Bill Lord Louisburg, N.C -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 09:20:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Requeening Confusion > Regarding the idea of making splits and allowing the nuc to raise >their own queen. Queens raised from emergency cells can be inferior. It >would be better to use a nuc with q-cells produced under the swarming >instinct. > I am new to this list so most of you do not know me. My wife >Carole and I keep about 700 colonies in Western New York and have been >breeding for tracheal mite resistance since '92. > Welcome Vince and Carole, What an asset you are going to be to the list. For our fellow members Vince was the guest speaker at the Ontario Beekeepers Annual meeting a couple of years ago. He is very knowledgeable and up to date on Tracheal mite resistance breeding. I'm sure Dr Medhat Nasr will be pleased to see your name on the list. Perhaps Vince, when you have time you might give us your views on T-mites. We have had long discussions on this matter, a new viewpoint is always welcome. Regarding the above I would like to make a point, we are perpetuating the swarming impulse, which I personally strongly disagree with. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 09:33:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: New Email Address Comments: To: A@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us Comments: cc: jr0002@epfl2.epflbalto.org, br0002@epfl2.epflbalto.org, fkovac@capaccess.org, iannuzzi@stsci.edu, lisal@ix.netcom.com, worrell@cees.umd.edu, ruxbury@delphi.com, beefriend@aol.com, textefriend@aol.com, prb@aplexus.jhapl.edu Hello Everybody, 1. A happier new year! 2. Please note my NEW email address: (w/o the carrets (sp?), of course. 3. It gives me the capability of PINE, lacking in the Pratt email address which I'm dropping altho the subscription is good until Feb. Also Pratt has NEVER corrected a problem reported since Day 1: not a life/death matter but a d..n nuisance! 4. Please use the Balto Cnty Pub Library address, Towson, from now on (pleez?) and not the Enoch Pratt Free Lib, Balto, one. Pardon the repeat. Ciao, wherever U may BEE. Jack the B-man, Ellicott City MD usa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 09:36:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD E BONNEY Subject: Re: Information on Varroa In-Reply-To: <9601032017.AA19286@ig2.att.att.com> Dave Your e-mail address did not show up with your message. I have sent such info as you request to Topsfield in the past. I assume it is on file there. If not, contact me direct. Dick Bonney rebon@ent.umass.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 09:21:15 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Re: New to Beekeeping Hello, hello! Welcome to the community. I too am rather new at beekeeping but have found that I learned a lot that keeps coming back to help me at the oddest times from the HIVE and the HONEYBEE and the ABC and XYZ of Bee Culture. I also read Ormand Aebi's "The Art of Beekeeping" and "Mastering the Art of Beekeeping", Richard Taylor's "The Joy of Beekeeping" and "The How to Do it...." book on beekeeping, Dick Bonney's "Hive Management", Diana Summatro(sp?) "The Beekeepers Handbook", and several others. The list is pretty extensive. Also, contact BEE CULTURE magazine at BEECULTURE@AOL.COM and inquire about back issues and a subscription. American Bee Journal is another good magazine that covers beekeeping in the U.S. but I don't have an e-mail for them. As an aside, if the bees have been there in that hive box for some time, whether 8 years or if a swarm moved into the hive bodies more recently, they are probably ok left alone until spring. I don't know when "spring" is in Georgia but you probably have time to get your equipment and information together. Also, contact your state Extension Office and inquire about beekeeping in your state. Georgia has a lot of package bee producers so your Extension office should have information regarding associations or beekeepers in your area. Find an association and attend several meetings. Meet the people who keep bees in your area and start asking questions. All of the beekeepers I have met are more than willing to help a newcomer. Get a bee magazine and start reading the articles and the ads. Yep, that's right. The advertisements. You'll find out a lot from them. Keep in touch with the rest of us out here. Mark Egloff Dayton, Ohio ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: New to Beekeeping Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at CSC_uuxch Date: 1/3/96 7:10 PM -- [ From: Charles Grubbs * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- I am new to beekeeping, and am very ignorant on the subject. I have read a couple of books from the local library, and have gathered as much information as I can get from the internet. I recently became interested in beekeeping as a hobby as something for myself and my 12 year old son to possibly do together. I know a man that used to keep bees ( he quit 8 years ago) and told him of my interest and asked for information on how to get started, he gave me a few references and told me a place to order equipment. But to my surprise the other day he called and told me that he went to check on a place that he had left a few of his old hives, and that one of them still contained bees! This hive has been unattended for 8 years. He told me that I could have the hive for free if I wanted it. I might also mention that I live in the state of Georgia, and that the winters are very mild here . So now I have a hive of questionable bees and don't know what I should do next. The hive is in very poor condition and I guess that the bees will need to be transferred to a new hive, but I don't know when or how to go about doing this. Can anyone suggest a good book that is definitely a required reading for beginners. Sorry for this lengthy post and thanks to all of you for keeping this area active for novices such as myself. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 11:36:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Requeening Confusion . WILLIAM G LORD wrote >The only real trick is to figure out what time of year to requeen when >it will cause the least disruption. A lot of books advocate spring >requeening but we have a May honey flow in North Carolina and spring >requeening can be disasterous. I wait until the flow is over and queens >are cheaper to boot. Your points are well taken, but as a queen breeder I would like to make a couple of points,with our very short season we have devised a method which really works. Buy young early queens, and set them up in small nucs either on top of the hive to be requeened or off to one side. Ideally on top, as they(if you organise a screened ventilated bottom board) recieve heat from the bottom hive and can be very small nucs, for better queen acceptance. When they are well established and with a good brood pattern, kill the old queen 24hrs before uniting with the newspaper method. One or two other points. "Young queens" often in late season queen breeders will queen bank(ie. put queens in cages, after mating) in queenless hives. Not a good practice in my view. By using small nucs there is better acceptance, plus it allows the queen to get up to speed without pressure from a larger hive. Finally it does allow the keeper the option of uniting at a time that is suitable, plus puts a young queen into the winter with a bigger hive( better wintering). **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:29:59 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: requeening with cells A regularly requeening is something I found nessesary. In order to keep a reasonable uniformity between hives there have to be bees of similar behaviour in most hives. Otherwise I will have too much work treating each hive individually. I start out as a beekeeper working through a hive frame by frame. As the number of hives increase I have to rationalize and start treating the hives box by box. Next step is to work hive by hive, then site by site until I finally (hopefully) manage to work my hives "by the run". To have the hives so equally developing that most of the time consuming checking for problems and differences is eliminated. The summer is short and lots of things need to be done during those few months of good weather on lat 60. To get there I need to concentrate on getting the "right" bees in my hives. The time spent on requeening this year is returned many times next year. For some years I have tested a system of requeening with ripe cells. A short description; We normally have a short and intense main honeyflow in july where I live, so the management is developed to fit that. I have a large number of ripe cells ready at the time of honeyflow. By then all the bees that are going to give me my crop have been produced in the hives. My hives have no excluders, so I simply put one cell in each top box. I belive somewhere around 60% of the cells end up in a laying queen. For those few hives where I really need to get rid of the old queen I have to remove her first. In maybe 20% of the hives the old queen is killed by the virgin, then the bees for some reason choose to make their own from a grub rather than exept my queen. Of course there are some hives that are queenless in autumn and unable to get through winter, but I find it easier to make a few more splits in spring when I have the time than checking hives in the busy harvesting period. To get best possible mating I have one full frame of drone brood in each hive all year. To flood the area with the "right" drones is essential to get good mating. A commersial beekeepers organization here in Sweden which I belong to is looking into the possibility to find a management system that combines requeening with swarm prevention. We are presently trying to find ways to introduce cells/virgins into a hive without having to remove the old queen first. Can't say we got so far yet, and I'm looking forward to exchanging information here. Regards P-O Gustafsson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 11:36:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Used equipment Another request from the Web pages. This gentleman wants to buy used equipment in Central New York between Utica and Binghampton. e-mail "DENNIS DODSON" Would someone in that area please help him out? **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:11:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lucy Cronin Subject: Purchase of extractor Ontario I know this does not relate to bee biology, but we are desperate. My husband and I are looking for a 4 frame extractor (motorized) to purchase. Does anyone in the Sudbury, Ontario district have one to sell, or know or any reasonable ones? We now possess a much modified 2-frame extractor which is pure hell to clean and service. Thanks so much for any help. Lucy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 18:44:53 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Requeening Confusion In-Reply-To: <9600038206.AA820698081@cscuuxch.dayton.csc.com> On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, Mark D. Egloff wrote: > Therefore, requeening would be desirable to > maintain the "purity" of the stock. > > On the other hand, allowing the bees to "grow their own" and > repopulating dead hives from splits including eggs or swarms, would > allow ones colonies to adapt to particular local circumstances, which > might enhance survival. > > Hmmmm.....interesting choice. Hi Mark, A couple more thoughts. Purity is one thing and in-breeding is quite another -- don't get the wrong one. When I buy in queens I try to buy from genetically fairly distant lines but maintaining the general strain, so I would try to keep pure ligusticas together etc., I don't buy from the same supplier/line each year. If you are at all isolated or the major drone source in your area, in-breeding is all too easy because of the parthenogenetic drones (heck; unfertilsed egg, no father!). I think most beekeepers requeen, but not necessarily with bought-in queens. Left entirely to there own devices bees will swarm sooner or later, leaving their own new queen. Part of our job is to minimise that as it costs us honey, and maybe time & goodwill, depending where the swarm goes :-). Requeening with young queens is a powerful method for reducing that tendedency. Other important reasons to requeen are as a defence against diseases and bad temper. IMHO, the real choice is what percentage of queens you buy in compared to the percentage you home-rear, even if this is just by swarm-control splits and by culling bad queens. Best regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 15:43:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: requeening with cells Comments: To: P-O Gustafsson In-Reply-To: <199601041629.RAA19112@tao.kuai.se> > For some years I have tested a system of requeening with ripe cells. A short > description; We normally have a short and intense main honeyflow in july where > I live, so the management is developed to fit that. I have a large number of > ripe cells ready at the time of honeyflow. By then all the bees that are > going to > give me my crop have been produced in the hives. My hives have no excluders, > so I simply put one cell in each top box. I belive somewhere around 60% of > the cells > end up in a laying queen. For those few hives where I really need to get rid > of the > old queen I have to remove her first. In maybe 20% of the hives the old queen > is killed by the virgin, then the bees for some reason choose to make their own I wish I could trust this system. Others have told me about it but it didn't work well for us. Two years ago I marked 20 queens in three yards and gave each a ripe cell. Several days later I checked each hive and found that each cell appeared to hatch OK. However when I checked t see what was laying(abt 3-4wks later) only 2 new queens were found, all others were still the origanal marked queen. Not to encouraging, but when so many others seem to be able to do this it makes me wonder if there are factors, like time of year, honeyflow, relatedness, that affect its success. Does anyone have data or comments? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:26:22 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: requeening with cells > A commersial beekeepers organization here in Sweden which I belong to is > looking into the possibility to find a management system that combines > requeening with swarm prevention. We are presently trying to find ways to > introduce cells/virgins into a hive without having to remove the old queen > first. Can't say we > got so far yet, and I'm looking forward to exchanging information here. Splits are an easy way to introduce cells or queens compared to large colonies. The reduced populations accept queens better, and if you can manage to have only young bees in the split, it will accept queens better, although it may not do as well in the long run unless recombined. There are numbers of ways of doing the splits, but the easiest - and thence my favourite follows: If the timing and the season is right, here in Alberta, we can reverse two storey colonies in late April, then split them in *half* in the first week or two of May. Ripe cells or queens - if available cheaply (we have been selling cells for $2 CAD each) - can be introduced then into each box. Cells are much easier because they can just be popped into each half of the split without searching for a queen. If a protector is used, then the ripe cell can be added immediately at the time of splitting. Success is generally as good - or better- than using mated queens. 50% of the cells *may* be wasted, but then maybe not, because if one in ten of the cells that is put blindly into a queenright half emerges, gets mated and either lays alongside the old queen or replaces her, then that will pay off well in increased production and forstalled hive failure. And the savings in labour and simplification of management far more than offset that small loss. At $2 each, the cost compares to 12 minutes of work for someone being paid $10 per hour. To introduce mated queens in 12 minutes each, considering preparation time, travel time, instruction, finding queens, making errors, etc is difficult. (I'm sure I'll get some flack on this, but I'll stand by it). Not everyone can handle cells sucessfully though, and a good source of cells must be available. (I am presently looking for a supplier of 1000 to 1500 cells in May 1996. Must be in Canada and must be within an hour or two of a major airport in Canada and able to supply 300 to 500 quality cells at a time). Mated queen success is generally very possible, but with much more work. The list has agreed some time back that the nuc method described by another writer here recently is one of the best to ensure success. Wire push in cages have good records too. Queens in cages are much more hardy than cells, and the timing is not nearly as critical, because they can be banked on a rainy day. I have had limited luck with introducing mated queens into strong colonies in the spring and although I know methods of doing so, I prefer to avoid the many manipulations and the extra equipment requirements. Our bees are as much as 60 miles away and the weather is often unco-operative, resulting in problems following a multi-step procedure. Sometimes success with mated queens runs 95%, another time success can be 60%, so the cost of introducing a mated queen *can* run as high as $25 CAD when all things are considered. Cells typically run around 80% success and the failures can be quickly identified and used to strengthen weaker splits in a routine operation on a subsequent round. We like the cell method, and will be writing more on this shortly. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 16:19:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: requeening with cells Comments: To: Allen Dick In-Reply-To: <9601042026.AA24874@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> Cells Vs. mated queens- looks like its a matter of personal taste and or successes. One more comment though. Recent bee literature is filled with talk about controlling diseases with genetics. As an industry I don't think there is even one success (what major disease is no longer treated due to our breeding efforts-natural selection doesn't count). It seems to me that if genetic disease control (breeding for resistance) is our goal then we not only should use mated queens but queens that have been properly bred. What thoughts are out there regarding genetic vs. chemical disease control? Are we barking up the wrong tree? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:30:54 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: Hello Vince Comments: To: Vince Coppola Hello Vince Nice to meet you in the bee line. Wish you a hapy new year. Regards Jean-Pierre Chapleau eleveur de reines / queen breeder vice-president du Conseil canadien du miel / Vice-president of the Canadian Honey Council 1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien de Ham, Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 tel./phone (819) 828-3396; fax (819) 828-0357 chapleau@praline.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 10:02:25 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: F Hogenboom Subject: new(s) from Amsterdam Ladies and gentlemen I am living in the Netherlands (near Amsterdam) where I have 3 hives. The honeyflow comes mostly from Oilseed-rape and Phacelia. Like everybody here (6000 hobbiests) I have to do with the Varroa mites. Last two years I experimented with powdered Thymol to destroy more than 95 % (?) of the mites. I do it after inwintering (when there is no more brood of the bees, I hope). It seems succesfull, but I realise this premature conclusion is far from scientific. I was wondering whether anybody out there has any experience with Varroa mites infection and/or Thymol or other chemicals. Any comments are most welcome. Best wishes for 1996. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 22:01:24 +1200 Reply-To: jkpmarsh@taranaki.ac.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Jonathon Organization: Taranaki Polytech Subject: Instrument Insemination & Nosema Two Questions First question> With Intrument insemenation how much semen should be used to effectively insemenate the queeen? Could someone give me the answer by way of cubic millimeters (mm)? I have been insemenating queens for a number of years now and have recently obtained a machine for measuring small amounts of liquid, I would like to know what the optimuim would be. I currently use about 7 to 12 drones depending on how effective I have been at scooping up the semen. Second Question> Here in New Zealand we control and effective resolve the problem of Nosema. We use a chemical called "Fumidil B", which is of couse a trade name for a chemical of similar sounds. I would like to know the effective way of despencing the chemical arround a commercial apiary. Could some of you reply as to the different methods that you use and possibly the best method in line of effeciency and effectiveness. ******************************************************** Jonathan KP Marshall of jkpmarsh@taranaki.ac.nz Proprietor of: Taranaki Honey Supplies & Taranaki Queen Breeders ******************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 06:36:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Wayne E. Esaias" Subject: The queens are laying! Here in central Maryland the queens have resumed laying! The observation hive has a silver dollar sized patch of capped brood, the first since the second week of November. She's a lovely Italian from Georgia. Its still too cold to break the cluster in the backyard colonies. Its reassuring to know that Mother Nature keeps to her schedule, even when the US Government is shut down. So, get busy with the equipment repairs, new supers, etc. - the bees are not on furlough. Wayne Esaias Wayne, Elaine, and Caroline Esaias 6971 Mink Hollow Rd Highland, MD 20777 301-854-3180 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:30:00 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: requeening with cells >> For some years I have tested a system of requeening with ripe cells. > I wish I could trust this system. Others have told me about it >but it didn't work well for us. Two years ago I marked 20 queens in three >yards and gave each a ripe cell. Several days later I checked each hive Vince, What time of year did you try? I'm doing it at the time for swarming, or just after. That's when the bees are prepared for a new queen in the hive. The time for superseedure normally comes a few weeks later and some hives have both queens side by side until they throw out the old queen. I would not try spring or autumn without removing the old queen first. Also with bad weather the success rate will go down. regards P-O ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 14:21:02 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: requeening with cells Allen Dick wrote: >Splits are an easy way to introduce cells or queens compared to large >colonies. The reduced populations accept queens better, and if you >can manage to have only young bees in the split, it will accept >queens better, although it may not do as well in the long run unless >recombined. Agree, but we are working to find ways to cut time. Making splits will take time and also mean you have to keep material just for that purpose, extra tops and bottoms. To make splits and leave in the same apiary means you will have all the field bees in one hive, so you should move them to next site you visit for best result. More work and time. >At $2 each, the cost compares to 12 minutes of work for someone being >paid $10 per hour. To introduce mated queens in 12 minutes each, >considering preparation time, travel time, instruction, finding queens, >making errors, etc is difficult. (I'm sure I'll get some flack on >this, but I'll stand by it). Well, I'm not running a large operation, just 250 hives by myself. But let's look at the costs for me; to produce my own cells I need 1,5 minutes per cell. I take them out and pop them into the top of each hive at my normal visit with ten days interval for swarm checking/adding boxes. That extra work will take another minute. Let's say I need to find the queen in 20% of my hives, and I need 12 min per hive. That would add an average of 2,5 min to the time.That is 5 min per hive spent on requeening. With a success rate of more than 50%. And no extra equipment needed. I buy breeder queens from different sources and use different lines to create maximum heterosis effect in my produktion hives. But I'm not into queen- breeding and selection for breeding-stock (not yet). Then I will have to start using nucs or making splits. Regards P-O ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 14:44:57 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: requeening with cells > Cells Vs. mated queens- looks like its a matter of personal taste and >or successes. One more comment though. Recent bee literature is filled >with talk about controlling diseases with genetics. As an industry I don't >think there is even one success (what major disease is no longer treated >due to our breeding efforts-natural selection doesn't count). It seems to >me that if genetic disease control (breeding for resistance) is our goal >then we not only should use mated queens but queens that have been >properly bred. > > What thoughts are out there regarding genetic vs. chemical disease >control? Are we barking up the wrong tree? Chemical disease control will eliminate the possibility for a natural selection against a better resistant stock. That's why we don't use any drugs for control of AFB or nosema in Sweden. There is very little AFB here when we always kill the hives that have an outbreak of the disease. Over time the bees naturally will get a resistance. I belive we can help them in that process by selecting more against disease restistance. Steve Taber for example claims he has succeeded in doing it. But there has to be a reduction in the use of drugs to get a chance to do the selection. So are we really giving the genetic disease control a chance? Regards P-O ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 08:27:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: cells vs queens I too have used cells for years to make splits and to requeen but converted back to mated queens last year. My rationale for cells was that I could control the genetics somewhat in that I selected the queen mother and her offspring mated with local drones, so I was hoping to get perhaps the best of both worlds. I also got some fairly hot colonies more often than I wished. My technique was to lavish cells on the split or hive to be requeened as I grew my own cells and cells are cheap. However, As Mr. Dick points out, cells can be labor intensive and very unforgiving of weather delays and rough handling. The net result was injection of more variability into my operation when I was in search of less variability so I switched back to mated queens. Am I satisfied with mated queens? Yes and no. They are a quick and simple fix when they work. One trip to install and one trip to confirm introduction. However, I am very unhappy with overall survival (I saw a lot of supercedeure last year) and variability in the queens. I hope to correct some of this witth more careful choice of suppliers. We have a spring honeyflow in North Carolina and spring mistakes and delays are costly. Thus mated queens make sense in the spring for increase too. Bill Lord -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 08:45:41 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: requeening with cells Comments: To: P-O Gustafsson > Allen Dick wrote: > >Splits are an easy way to introduce cells or queens compared to large > >colonies. The reduced populations accept queens better, and if you > >can manage to have only young bees in the split, it will accept > >queens better, although it may not do as well in the long run unless > >recombined. > > Agree, but we are working to find ways to cut time. Making splits will take > time and also mean you have to keep material just for that purpose, extra > tops and bottoms. To make splits and leave in the same apiary means > you will have all the field bees in one hive, so you should move them to > next site you visit for best result. More work and time. Well, we have to make up our losses and the easiest and best time to do that is spring around here. I wrote a long article a year or so ago that was posted here on this topic, and should be available in the archives, but, we'll go on from there and work on some of the other ideas. About half our hives are strong enough to just split in two in early May. That means an increase of about 1/3 of total numbers. That just nicely compensates for the losses over the rest of the year. ie: if I run 1500 colonies after splitting, by the next May, I will be down to about 1000 colonies if I do no other splitting or increase or maintenance. (And in a honey producing outfit in a short season such as we have up here, we often just do our beekeeping once a year - in the spring - and just do honey work untill fall - when it is too late to try to rescue any that haven't measured up). This is a rough approximation. We see about 20% of the *total* colonies lost or combined over the summer and fall, and about 20% of the remainder lost or worthless by May of the next year for various reasons, meaning that about 64% survive over the whole year. So for us there is no extra equipment required. The splits we like best are simple: on a previous visit in April, the hives are cleaned and reversed, if ready. On the next visit, two floors are placed in front of the existing hive and one empty brood chamber is placed on each. The top box of the hive is then placed on one and the bottom on the other. The bees split nicely between the two new hives. if there are auger holes in all the boxes, it is even better. I'd better mention again that our criterion for splitting is bees on the bottom of at least five frames and preferrably seven. As I have said here before, if we do not split at this time, we find that the bees often dwindle to one box by late May and the potential is lost. At this point, if cells are available, they are popped into each half and left. This whole process takes a couple of minutes for two people. If queens are used, a return visit on the fourth day is the easiest way to find the queen and introduce the new one. The splits can also be removed to a new yard; however there is a problem remembering which split came from which. This won't matter at all if you use cells in both halves, but if queens are to be found - unless everything is carefully marked - you will likely have to go through every box to some extent at least, instead of half of them. If you are like me, you will never be sure when you don't find a queen in one split that you haven't just missed her unless the other half is handy for comparison during the first three days while eggs are still present in each half. Of course as the days go by it becomes more obvious which have and which don't have queens, but the longer you wait to introduce the new queen, the more likely that there will be cells and that may lead to introduction failure, and the less time advantage an expensive mated queen has over having just used a cell in the first place (on the original visit). Now with cells, there will be about a 20% failure rate. This becomes obvious after 11 days normally (more in bad weather). However there is a backstop: if the cell you put in doesn't work out, there will likely be a emergency cells that will hatch and be laying in 21 days. Now we all know that emergency cells can be risky for reasons that have been well covered by Tom Taylor and others over the last year or two, but in fact, they are often high quality - it just depends on the season. So you can choose whether to just let nature take its course or try again with another cell. We often just use the duds as seconds on hives that have shrunk - there are always a few that do. With queens, however it is much different. If the first queen isn't accepted, it is usually a waste of time and money to try again. The dud should be combined or shaken out. Often mated queens will seem to be accepted and laying well on first inspection, but be found missing a few weeks later. We don't find this usually with the queens that come from cells. So, as I see it, to use queens, there is additional work, inasmuch as the frames have to be removed and inspected for a queen several times. With cells, no inspection is required untill 11 days or more later, and a glance will tell the tale. No queens need ever be located - or even seen. Now as far as stock is concerned, a lot depends on your opinion of your own stock and your opinion of the stock that others offer. With mated queens, you are obtaining 100% outside stock. This is true at least in the cases where the new queen is not prompty superceded with a new home grown queen - which happens more often than many think, and results in a 50% change of stock. If you buy cells, then you are getting a 50% change of blood, because the drones will be your own or your neighbours'. Or if you send the cell raiser your own queens, then the eggs can come from your own stock, and you get no new blood. Is your own stock good? Well we have a 33% attrition rate over the year in our operation, and always select at least ten of the best queens for raising cells - judged on winter survival of marked star producers from the previous year, spring strength, and disease resistance. If a potential breeder stings on inspection, it is also rejected. Of course there are other criteria too, but you get the idea... I think his is pretty heavy selection pressure to adapt to our area , our diseases, and our needs. I think our stock is pretty good. That isn't to say, though that others don't have good stock, and we always bring in a new breeder queen or two, or packages, or mated queens to add to the pool. My preference would be to have my own cells, from selected queens, bred to my own random (or selected) drones. My second chioce would be to bring in cells from proven outside stock to mate with my own drones. My third choice would be to get mated queens from outside. I'm concerned that many breeders do not place honey production first in selection criteria. To me it is the top priority. I make my living on it and a *10% increase* in production with no other input changes will *double* my take home pay. That isn't to say that all the other things don't matter. They do. If a hive is kilked by mites, it can't produce honey, so we eliminate it from the breeding pool. If a hive doesn't winter, well, we can't breed from it. If a hive dies of foulbrood, we have to forget it. Of course, it won't make much honey either. If the bees sting everyone within 100 meters, then we can't manage them or find yards for them, so they won't produce much either. The biggest problem we have is that at the time when we need the cells, our bees are not ready to raise queens. We *can* raise good cells, but it is a lot of work, and it sacrifices potential producing colonies. We have a small time window for splitting - three weeks, maximum. After the 20th of May, the splits likely will not equal unsplit colonies in production. Therefore, we are considering outside sources for queen cells this year. Our preference is for a breeder that will graft from our own queens, but who is located in a n area where the season is a month ahead of ours - like southern Ontario, Quebec, or British Columbia, but we will consider some stock that has demonstarted some tolerance to mites, and has other good characteristics. I know there is some good stock in Ontario - I've had it before. B.C.'s Vancouver Island is a potential source, however their bees have been sheltered from mites and weather for a number of years now, and I am leary of their stock - moreover they cannot accept any of our stock because they are in a quarantine zone. Unfortunately, at present we have no access to the USA, and Aus and NZ are a problem in timing and transhipment. Anyhow, this is getting long and rambling again and I have work to do, so we'll pick this up later. I'd like next to get into what we can and cannot do with ripe cells. Later... > >At $2 each, the cost compares to 12 minutes of work for someone being > >paid $10 per hour. To introduce mated queens in 12 minutes each, > >considering preparation time, travel time, instruction, finding queens, > >making errors, etc is difficult. (I'm sure I'll get some flack on > >this, but I'll stand by it). > > Well, I'm not running a large operation, just 250 hives by myself. But let's > look at the costs for me; to produce my own cells I need 1,5 minutes per > cell. I take them out and pop them into the top of each hive at my normal > visit with ten days interval for swarm checking/adding boxes. That extra work > will take another minute. Let's say I need to find the queen in 20% of my > hives, and I need 12 min per hive. That would add an average of 2,5 min to the > time.That is 5 min per hive spent on requeening. With a success rate of more > than 50%. And no extra equipment needed. > > I buy breeder queens from different sources and use different lines to create > maximum heterosis effect in my produktion hives. But I'm not into queen- > breeding and selection for breeding-stock (not yet). Then I will have to start > using nucs or making splits. > > Regards P-O > > Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:54:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: requeening with cells . It seems to >me that if genetic disease control (breeding for resistance) is our goal >then we not only should use mated queens but queens that have been >properly bred. > > What thoughts are out there regarding genetic vs. chemical disease >control? Are we barking up the wrong tree? No, I don't believe we are barking up the wrong tree. That's why Ontario started it's breeding program!! The aim, to genetically select a strain of bees immune to T-mite, to avoid chemical control. I have said a number of times, the North American method of throwing chemicals at a problem can only be a stop gap. We should be paying more attention to selection against disease!! I have read with interest all the different methods of requeening, cells versus mated queens, forced virgins and some I would suggest are really wild!! Some of us seem to miss one of the golden rules, taught to me many years ago by my mentor. "LIKE REPLACES LIKE" No matter how good you are, no matter what you try, you cannot force the bees to do what is against mother nature. To requeen, the hive has to be ready(naturally) to accept that virgin, mated queen or cell, or to even make their own. You won't under normal cicumstances find a cell in a hive with eggs, unless the bees have decided to superscede. You can't replace a laying queen with a virgin. The point I'm trying to make, if you want success, first prepare the hive to receive whatever it is you want them to do!! Finally, queens produced under emergency will rarely be any good and in only a short time the bees are changing that queen.To understand, eggs take 3 days to hatch, the bees then feed a small amount of royal jelly.When they decide to make workers the royal jelly is changed to worker food, which prevents the production of ovaries. Now , if an emergency develops and they are forced to produce a queen from worker fed eggs, the genetic cycle is interupted, a scrub queen results, because her ovaries are not fully developed. The queen must be made from an egg that was intended to be a queen from the start of the cycle. Sometimes depending on circumstances, the queen might be reasonably acceptable, but they won't go a full cycle, possibly winter failure, or poor performance. So as Vince suggests, well bred queens should be the rule. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:54:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: The queens are laying! >Here in central Maryland the queens have resumed >laying! The observation hive has a silver dollar >sized patch of capped brood, the first since the >second week of November. "Praise the Lord and pass the smoker". It's still minus 22C today a wind chill of minus 30C. So it will quite a while before we can open our bees. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 12:41:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Batson Subject: Re: New to Beekeeping In-Reply-To: <9601040003.AA06199@tiger.avana.net> A new beekeeper in Georgia recently requested information... Keith Delaplane had an excellent series of 6 1/2-hour shows on Georgia Public TV in 1993. If you can get a copy of those shows, you'll learn a lot!!! (Even though some of the material is not up to date in 1996). I apologize for sending this to the entire list, but my email system does not automatically display address of originator. Would it be possible for folks to include a personal address as part of their message? Thanks, John Batson, Greenville SC BATSON_JOHN/FURMAN@FURMAN.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 10:00:15 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Request for Canadians I would appreciate a reply to the question of when varroa mites first came into each province of Canada. So far I have the following information: ******* Southern Canada did not escape infestation. By 1989 New Brunswick was apparently occupied by varroa mites from the U.S.; Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec had confirmed reports two years later. A British Columbia infestation followed. Most of Canada, however, remains free of those mites. ******* Can anyone clarify that statement? Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *"Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, but to * * think what no one else has thought." - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 18:11:05 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: requeening with cells In-Reply-To: <199601051654.LAA16330@segwun.muskoka.net> On Fri, 5 Jan 1996, David Eyre wrote: > I have said a number of times, the North American method of > throwing chemicals at a problem can only be a stop gap. We > should be paying more attention to selection against disease!! Of course, that isn't *only* a North American method :-( > I have read with interest all the different methods of > requeening, cells versus mated queens, forced virgins and some > I would suggest are really wild!! Some of us seem to miss one > of the golden rules, taught to me many years ago by my mentor. > > "LIKE REPLACES LIKE" No matter how good you are, no matter what > you try, you cannot force the bees to do what is against mother > nature. To requeen, the hive has to be ready(naturally) to accept > that virgin, mated queen or cell, or to even make their own. Good advice, IMHO. My mentor has a useful additional view to that. He reckons that you can pretty safely advance by one stage, e.g., replacing an uncapped Q-cell with a ripe one or a virgin with a mated queen, and that you can *often* advance by two stages, e.g., egg to ripe Q-cell or ripe Q-cell to mated queen. Anything else, he says, will almost certainly fail. I just believe him ;-) I wonder how many of the "can do it then; can't do it then" tales are due to this and the natural colony progress. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 18:38:33 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Maidenhead? beekeeper only. Hi, I'm sorry, owing to a system upgrade and a stupid oversight on my part (I didn't keep /usr/spool/mail), I've lost your snail-mail address. Please resend it. Appologies for cluttering the list. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 15:54:26 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Re[2]: New to Beekeeping I apologize for sending this to the entire list, but my email system does not automatically display address of originator. Would it be possible for folks to include a personal address as part of their message? Thanks, John Batson, Greenville SC BATSON_JOHN/FURMAN@FURMAN.EDU I too am unable to derive the email address from the BEE-L listing. I would like to have all include their personal email addresses. Mark Egloff Dayton, OH megloff@csc.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 16:26:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Re[2]: New to Beekeeping Again, (broken record here), it's good to put your name, location, affiliation, and email address at the end of your message, so the clueless can locate you properly... Like this: (no affiliation at present) Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA At the END of the message... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 14:35:42 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kim Patten Subject: spirits of peppermint and mite control i am working with a beekeeper who has a tracheal mite problem. He has lost 500 plus colonies. He claims to have reduced his infestation by using spirits of peppermint on a pad on the top of the frames. Counts of adult mite went from 74% of hive infested to 50% in 7 days. This coming season he was planning to using three treatments 5 days apart. Does anyone have any experience with this treatment or any comments? Thanks for any suggestions Kim Patten. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 16:23:45 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom_Elliott@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US Subject: Emergency Cell Queens I cannot recall where exactly I learned it, but . . . For someone with only a half dozen hives, it is possible to raise decent queens from emergency cells. As I recall - and have tried mostly for fun - you remove the queen (to a nuc or whatever) and return after four days. At that time you remove all queen cells which have been capped (indicating queens begun with advanced larvae). Return again after several more days to remove all but one or two large, heavily textured cells - (this only if you are requeening). It would be possible to return close to hatching time and harvest cells for other uses. I've requeened this way and obtained quite satisfactory queens. Beyond that I can only report my recollections of what I read. Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska Tom_Elliott_at_ANCAV1@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 01:54:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "John A. Halstead" Subject: Re: New to Beekeeping FROM: BeeKeeper Art Halstead Reading bee books is ok, but even if you find some bees that do read books, they probably went to a different library from yours. ....Dont forget videos, your 12yr old will like more than old fashioned reading. Some libraries have good selection. Dont forget schools have video libraries also. ....You wrote "transferred to new hive" actually you meant put in a new box. Bees can be very self sufficient and can survive very well without benefit of the beekeeper's meddling. The big problem in the xfr from old to new will be propolis. Actually 8yrs worth. So be prepared, probably best to wait for very warm weather. ....Getting started in GA, (or anywhere) I strongly advise connecting with local bee club. They have scoop on local flora, conditions, etc, somebody always has extra equipment at bargain prices (never buy at full retail!) and always glad to talk bees, (most of their family has heard all their bee stores already) and you get free advise! ....To find local club: contact Keith Delaplane, Univ of GA, 404-542-1765. Depending on your location to which border, Fla has 24 local clubs, SC has 10 or 12, and NC has about 50. ....Fred Rossman in Moultrie is a good source for queens, bees, and new supplies, his phone number is 1-800-333-7677. ....The NC State Beekeepers Assoc will hold a spring meeting in Raleigh on March 2 & 3rd. As program is confirmed, I will post, but if you want mailing, reply with your address. .....Good Luck ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 09:59:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: requeening with cells In-Reply-To: <199601051344.OAA07095@tao.kuai.se> > Chemical disease control will eliminate the possibility for a natural selection > against a better resistant stock. That's why we don't use any drugs for control > of AFB or nosema in Sweden. There is very little AFB here when we always > kill the hives that have an outbreak of the disease. Over time the bees > naturally > will get a resistance. I belive we can help them in that process by selecting > more against disease restistance. Steve Taber for example claims he has > succeeded in doing it. But there has to be a reduction in the use of drugs to > get a chance to do the selection. > > So are we really giving the genetic disease control a chance? > > Regards P-O Agree on chemicals interfering with natural selection but can we not select for resistance even while using a chemical? For instance the frozen brood test for hygenic behavior will work whether or not the colony is being fed antibiotic.> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 18:09:05 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: requeening with cells I wrote: >> Chemical disease control will eliminate the possibility for a natural selection >> against a better resistant stock. >> So are we really giving the genetic disease control a chance? Vince Coppola replied: > Agree on chemicals interfering with natural selection but can we not >select for resistance even while using a chemical? For instance the >frozen brood test for hygenic behavior will work whether or not the >colony is being fed antibiotic.> The frozen brood test for hygienic bees is only one thing among many we need to improve the possibility to select for. The resistance to varroa for example could increase with not only hyg behaviour, but also the bees removing mites from each other as reported from central Europe. Other genetic traits can contribute to a better resistance, if given a chance to, like shorter brood cycle when fewer mites will mature in the cell. And if more beekeepers contribute to the testing we will faster get to the goal. Chemical treatment will mask those hives we need to get out of business in order to improve stock. There are two ways to get better stock; one is to add improvements to existing stock. The other is to eliminate the worst hives so we get an average colony improvement. I think both ways should be used. The goal should be faster reached that way. Then we can not continue to use drugs on a regular basis. Regards P-O Gustafsson Sweden beeman@kuai.se ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 18:21:35 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Matysek Miroslav, Ing." Subject: Re: new(s) from Amsterdam > Last two years I experimented with powdered Thymol to destroy more than 95 % > (?) of the mites. I do it after inwintering (when there is no more brood of > the bees, I hope). I would like to know form application and quantity powdered Thymol. Best wishes for 1996. Miroslav Matysek +----------------------------------------------------------+ |Miroslav Matysek | |matysek@zlin.vutbr.cz | |Technical University in Brno | |Faculty of Technology in Zlin | |762 72 Zlin, Czech republic tel., fax: +42 67 721 1521| +----------------------------------------------------------+ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 10:47:25 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: requeening with cells Comments: To: P-O Gustafsson > >> Chemical disease control will eliminate the possibility for a natural > selection > >> against a better resistant stock. > >> So are we really giving the genetic disease control a chance? > > Vince Coppola replied: > > Agree on chemicals interfering with natural selection but can we not > >select for resistance even while using a chemical? For instance the > >frozen brood test for hygenic behavior will work whether or not the > >colony is being fed antibiotic.> > And if more beekeepers contribute to the testing we will faster get to the > goal. Chemical treatment will mask those hives we need to get out of > business in order to improve stock. > > There are two ways to get better stock; one is to add improvements to > existing stock. The other is to eliminate the worst hives so we get an > average colony improvement. > > I think both ways should be used. The goal should be faster reached that way. > Then we can not continue to use drugs on a regular basis. I guess the question arises: In a given operation or part of an operation, is there an attempt being made to develop breeding stock, or is the operation planning to rely principally on stock developed elsewhere? In the first case, consistent efforts must be made to select and propagate stock with desirable qualities with very limited and well-considered use of chemical or management methods of pest and disease control as debated above. However, in the latter, where most stock is purchased in the form of mated queens or nucs or packages, there is little value in taking any losses that can be economically controlled with intervention. The latter case applies to most backlot and commercial operations where there is no consistent and scientific plan of development, and where matings are uncontrolled, and bees are routinely purchased. This is because the stock will never be propagated and distributed, but will rather be replaced with new stock from a breeder - one who hopefully will have used rigorous selection in choosing his/her breeder stock - or from the neigbour's place. Even in the former case, using *some* chemical controls may make sense. For example, using Fumidil B in the queen raising hives - which are the production segment of the breeding business - is wise, even if the bees are from supposedly nosema resistant stock, because the customer should receive uninfected stock, and queen rearing can place abnormal stress on colonies that will try even the best bees to the limit sometimes. It is likely, however, that Fumidil should not be used in the hives that are being evaluated as breeders - if nosema resistance is being sought - because it will mask susceptible hives - ones that should be discarded from the program. This also applies to any intervention chemical or otherwise that we do not wish to have to depend on in future. (A qualification of the above is that some minimal control must be used in the case of conditions that are so lethal that no breeding stock would survive without limited control being applied. Varroa is such a condition - given the bees we have to work with at present.) In other words, we need to distinguish between hives that are being used to develop breeders and those which are strictly for production of products - and which will not be used to supply breeding stock. In the case of strictly production (most) hives, IMHO the only considerations that need be made in regards chemical use, are safety and appropriateness. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 10:49:07 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: requeening with cells > >> Chemical disease control will eliminate the possibility for a natural > selection > >> against a better resistant stock. > >> So are we really giving the genetic disease control a chance? > > Agree on chemicals interfering with natural selection but can we not > >select for resistance even while using a chemical? For instance the > >frozen brood test for hygenic behavior will work whether or not the > >colony is being fed antibiotic.> > And if more beekeepers contribute to the testing we will faster get to the > goal. Chemical treatment will mask those hives we need to get out of > business in order to improve stock. > > There are two ways to get better stock; one is to add improvements to > existing stock. The other is to eliminate the worst hives so we get an > average colony improvement. > > I think both ways should be used. The goal should be faster reached that way. > Then we can not continue to use drugs on a regular basis. I guess the question arises: In a given operation or part of an operation, is there an attempt being made to develop breeding stock, or is the operation planning to rely principally on stock developed elsewhere? In the first case, consistent efforts must be made to select and propagate stock with desirable qualities with very limited and well-considered use of chemical or management methods of pest and disease control as debated above. However, in the latter, where most stock is purchased in the form of mated queens or nucs or packages, there is little value in taking any losses that can be economically controlled with intervention. The latter case applies to most backlot and commercial operations where there is no consistent and scientific plan of development, and where matings are uncontrolled, and bees are routinely purchased. This is because the stock will never be propagated and distributed, but will rather be replaced with new stock from a breeder - one who hopefully will have used rigorous selection in choosing his/her breeder stock - or from the neigbour's place. Even in the former case, using *some* chemical controls may make sense. For example, using Fumidil B in the queen raising hives - which are the production segment of the breeding business - is wise, even if the bees are from supposedly nosema resistant stock, because the customer should receive uninfected stock, and queen rearing can place abnormal stress on colonies that will try even the best bees to the limit sometimes. It is likely, however, that Fumidil should not be used in the hives that are being evaluated as breeders - if nosema resistance is being sought - because it will mask susceptible hives - ones that should be discarded from the program. This also applies to any intervention chemical or otherwise that we do not wish to have to depend on in future. (A qualification of the above is that some minimal control must be used in the case of conditions that are so lethal that no breeding stock would survive without limited control being applied. Varroa is such a condition - given the bees we have to work with at present.) In other words, we need to distinguish between hives that are being used to develop breeders and those which are strictly for production of products - and which will not be used to supply breeding stock. In the case of strictly production (most) hives, IMHO the only considerations that need be made in regards chemical use, are safety and appropriateness. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 16:02:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: NB*net - New Brunswick's Regional Network 1-800-561-4459 From: Heather Clay Subject: Re: Request for Canadians The first varroa mite in Canada was found in Centreville New Brunswick, less than one kilometre from the U.S. border. In a survey of 1250 colonies two mites were found on one board in an apiary of 7 colonies. Following this first find, a further 300 colonies in an area of 24 km radius were tested for the mite in spring 1990 and 12 more colonies in 2 apiaries tested positive. The National Varroa Action Plan was followed and all colonies in the positive apiaries were immediately depopulated with Agriculture Canada compensating the beekeepers at a rate of $60 per colony for the loss. Heather Clay N.B. Provincial Apiarist Dept of Agriculture PO Box 6000 Fredericton N.B. E3B 5H1 phone 506-453-3033 fax 506-453-7978 clay@nbnet.nb.ca > I would appreciate a reply to the question of when varroa mites first >came into each province of Canada. So far I have the following >information: > >******* > > Southern Canada did not escape infestation. By 1989 New Brunswick was >apparently occupied by varroa mites from the U.S.; Manitoba, Ontario, and >Quebec had confirmed reports two years later. A British Columbia >infestation followed. Most of Canada, however, remains free of those >mites. > >******* > > Can anyone clarify that statement? > > Adrian > > >*************************************************************** >* Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * >* Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * >* University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * >* Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * >* * >*"Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, but to * >* think what no one else has thought." - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * >*************************************************************** > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 16:21:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: requeening with cells Comments: To: P-O Gustafsson In-Reply-To: <199601061709.SAA12686@tao.kuai.se> On Sat, 6 Jan 1996, P-O Gustafsson wrote: P-O Gusttafsson wrote: > >> Chemical disease control will eliminate the possibility for a natural > selection > >> against a better resistant stock. > >> So are we really giving the genetic disease control a chance? > > Vince Coppola replied: > > Agree on chemicals interfering with natural selection but can we not > >select for resistance even while using a chemical? For instance the > >frozen brood test for hygenic behavior will work whether or not the > >colony is being fed antibiotic.> > P-O Gustafsson reply: > The frozen brood test for hygienic bees is only one thing among many we > need to improve the possibility to select for. The resistance to varroa for > example could increase with not only hyg behaviour, but also the bees > removing mites from each other as reported from central Europe. Other > genetic traits can contribute to a better resistance, if given a chance to, > like shorter brood cycle when fewer mites will mature in the cell. > Yes , if you want a natural selection, but I believe we still can select for varroa or tracheal resistance even while treating. This can be done by selecting for a characteristic that has been shown to influance resistance. As the frozen brood test in the above example we can also use the "quick test" for tracheal mite resistance or select for criteria like post capping time, grooming, infertility, ect., for varroa resistance. As an example, we were able to do our initial selection for Tracheal mite resistance while we were treating with menthol. The "quick test" results are not influanced by the treatment. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x x x Vince & Carole Coppola vcoppola@epix.net x x Coppola Apiaries, (716)965-2904 x x 10220 Bradigan Rd. x x Forestville, N.Y. 14062 x x x x Western New York Beekeepers Association x x x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 00:35:23 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Veldhuis Subject: Re: Request for Canadians In-Reply-To: from "Adrian Wenner" at Jan 5, 96 10:00:15 am > I would appreciate a reply to the question of when varroa mites first > came into each province of Canada. So far I have the following > information: > > Southern Canada did not escape infestation. By 1989 New Brunswick was > apparently occupied by varroa mites from the U.S.; Manitoba, Ontario, and > Quebec had confirmed reports two years later. A British Columbia > infestation followed. Most of Canada, however, remains free of those > mites. > > > Can anyone clarify that statement? > I'm not sure what is meant by "Southern Canada", presumably this means central Ontario and Quebec; the parts of canada that protrude below the 49th parrallel. However the first two incursions into Canada by Varoa were in NB and Mb. It would make more sense perhaps, if "southern Canada" simply means those parts of Canada closest to the border. Indeed it was these areas which were first infected. Currently, I would describe the situation regarding Varroa mites as widespread, but not endemic; that is, varroa mites exist in many parts of Canada, but is still highly localised along border regions. This summer's testing in our province (MB) did find Varroa in areas well removed from the border. There has not been any depopulation of colonies for some time. We are definately in a "control" rather than a prevention situation. I personaly trapped and tested the swarm which had the first Varroa mites in Western Canada. This swarm was trapped on the Canada-Us border. The pattern of discovery of Varroa in Canada suggests that many areas were infected as a result of the mite moving accross the border, rather than spreading from a single or few infections within the country. Hope this helps, PHil -- ------------oooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo------------- Phil Veldhuis | If I must be a fool, as all those who reason Winnipeg. MB, Canada | or believe any thing certainly are, my follies veldhui@cc.umanitoba.ca | shall at least be natural and agreeable. David Hume (1739) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 08:56:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harmony Farm Subject: Master beekeeping School Does anyone know when and where there will be a Master Beekeeping school this year. I think there was one in Ontario Canada last year. Interested in either Canada or USA. Deb & Greg Kalicin Harmony Farm Lisbon, NY harmony@northnet.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 15:53:19 -0500 Reply-To: Ian Stuart McLean Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Stuart McLean Subject: Re: Syrup vrs Candy? Hi, May I suggest that instead of candy you try Bakers Fondant. You can use it at times when the bees wont take syrup. Cut the fondant into about 3 kg slabs, put it in a thin plastic bag to stop it hardening. On the hive slash the plastic with a hive tool, peel plastic back on underside and place straight on the frames.The bees come up to the feed through the cut in the plastic.> If they want feed they use it if not - they dont. I've used it, in emergency, more of late as pressure of work reduces my time with my own bees! Yours Ian ianmac@lancsbk.win-uk.net - Northern Regional Bee Inspector, UK - Bee Curious phone/fax 01704 822831 snailmail 'Asland' Flash Lane, Rufford, Ormskirk, Lancs, L40 1SW - UK. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 11:37:12 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Resent-From: "F Hogenboom" Comments: Originally-From: "F Hogenboom" From: F Hogenboom Subject: thymol vs mites Forwarded to: smtp[BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU] cc: Comments by: F Hogenboom@Pharm@preklin -------------------------- [Original Message] ------------------------- To whom it may concern. Hi, The application of Thymol is very simple: Thymol, mostly big crystals, are ground to powder with a mortal or homogenizer. By using a tea-strainer I sprinkle 2 grams on the top bars of a 10-comps-hive; in october/november when the temperature is above 10 degr. celcius, bees are flying around. I repeat this 3 times with a few days intervals. After the first treatment there are a thousand of dead mites on the bottomboard, after the last one not more than 10. No conspicious dead bees! I think other mites, like tracheal-, don't like this treatment as well. Thymol is known for destroying mold and herbarium parasites, preserving anatomical specimens; for embalming and has recommended for the prevention of mildew growth and as an antimold for paper. It has been used as anthelmintic, antifungal and antiseptic. Francois Hogenboom F.Hogenboom.Pharm@med.vu.nl Amsterdam, The Netherlands ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 14:31:46 +0100 Reply-To: Michael Haberl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Haberl Subject: Re: Instrument Insemination In message > ******************************************************** > Jonathan KP Marshall of > jkpmarsh@taranaki.ac.nz > Proprietor of: > Taranaki Honey Supplies & > Taranaki Queen Breeders > ******************************************************** writes: > With Intrument insemenation how much semen should be used to > effectively insemenate the queeen? Could someone give me the > answer by way of cubic millimeters (mm)? I have been > insemenating queens for a number of years now and have > recently obtained a machine for measuring small amounts of liquid, I > would > like to know what the optimuim would be. I currently use about > 7 to 12 drones depending on how effective I have been at scooping up > the semen. According to literature and own experience that seems to be the right range. I usually use one insemination with 8 ul (i.e. 8 mm^3). But there is no general optimum because it depends much on your goals (how much time do you want to invest, you many virgin queens do you have and what proportion do want them to become good, long-living egg-layers,..) According to WOYKE (1960, Bee World 43, 21-25) drones yield 1.5 to 1.75 ul with an average of 1.7 ul (values of 78 drones). Because there are losses in the syringe a.s.o. you may receive and inseminate about 1 ul per drone. In general, the larger the insemination volume, the larger the sperm transfer into the spermatheka (most of the sperm is ejected after insemination/copulation). WOYKE did single inseminations with 1 to 20 ul semen per queen. The sperm numbers in the spermatheka increased from 1.39 million to 5.85 milion, which equals a usage of 20 % for 1 ul inseminatinons, or 4 % for 20 ul ins. Increasing the dose to 8 ul rapidly increased the number of sperm in the spermatheka, but the further increase up to 20 ul was substantially ineffective. And, if you inseminate a constant volume, a larger sperm transfer is obtained if you inseminate twice (e.g.: two inseminations with 4 ul on different days fill the spermatheka to a larger extent than one 8 ul insemination.) But obviously, performing multiple inseminations is more labourous and more risky. You can inseminate as less as 1 ul e.g. for experimental interests. For best results I would consider two insemination with 8 ul each on consequtive days. For more details, you may consider the paper from WOKYE I cited above. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Haberl Tel: ++49 89 5902-444 Zoologisches Institut der Uni Muenchen Fax: ++49 89 5902-450 Luisenstr. 14 80333 Muenchen, Germany E-mail: haberl@zi.biologie.uni-muenchen.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 08:54:12 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Don Dixon Subject: Re: Requests for Canadians-Varroa Rearding the above request - as P. Velduis indicated in a previous posting the first discovery of Varroa in Manitoba was made at the U.S. border as a result of a swarm trap monitoring program conducted by the Manitoba Department of Agriculture. This happened in 1991. Follow up sampling found additional beekeepers in the area with low level infestations of Varroa. Initially some colonies were killed with compensation and in 1993 in a cost shared program with Sandoz Corp. treated a total of 10,000 colonies in the area with Apistan. Although these actions ( and others) have undoubtly slowed down the spread of Varroa in Manitoba, Varroa has now been found in 4 geographical areas in Manitoba and it is recommended that all commercial beekeepers in Manitoba introduce a monitoring program to ensure the early detection of Varroa in their operations. Also, Dr. R. Currie (University of Manitoba) completed a 3 year Varroa contol research project under Manitoba conditions in 1995. This project has provided important information on the biology of Varroa under our climactic and management conditions and appropriate control strategies using fluvalinate, formic acid and cultural controls. Don Dixon Manitoba Agriculture ddixon@agric.gov.mb.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 10:40:48 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: E-Mail addresses for BEE-L members Requests for individuals' e-mail addresses can be resolved by requests to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by sending mail with a single line in the body of the mail that reads: REVIEW BEE-L The LISTSERV software will return to the requestor a list of all unconcealed subscribers including their E-MAIL address. Remember to send the review request to LISTSERV rather than BEE-L. Save this advice! One need not request of the entire list or post to the entire list when they have lost the E-Mail address of an individual subscriber. Using LISTSERV in this manner will cut down considerably on the 'noise' to the entire list. Aaron Morris IBM System Manager University at Albany (The host to BEE-L) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 08:49:44 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: thymol vs mites > Hi, > The application of Thymol is very simple: > Thymol, mostly big crystals, are ground to powder with a mortal or > homogenizer. > I think other mites, > like tracheal-, don't like this treatment as well. Thymol is known > for destroying mold and herbarium parasites, preserving anatomical > specimens; for embalming and has recommended for the prevention of > mildew growth and as an antimold for paper. It has been used as > anthelmintic, antifungal and antiseptic Very interesting. I wonder what the cost, availability, and toxicity for mammals is for this substance? Other signigicant properties would be solubility in wax, effect on skin, eyes, lungs, etc. These have been limiting properties in evaluating other promising substances for this purpose. Although this may be a common substance, I can't say that I am familiar with it. I suppose that I'll have to pull out an encyclopedia, but in the meantime it would be interesting to hear more form those who have experience with it. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 11:21:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Re[2]: New to Beekeeping >Again, (broken record here), it's good to put your name, location, >affiliation, and email address at the end of your message, so the >clueless can locate you properly... >Like this: (no affiliation at present) > >Liz Day >LDAY@indy.net >Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA >> >At the END of the message... I totally agree! It is most frustrating to receive messages off the Web without knowing where from. "aol.com" tells one a lot!! Could it be newbies? Suggestion, the signature file will hold that information, if you put it in the file. It is not common knowledge, if you send an e-mail to yourself it comes back to you, verbatim. So please experiment, you're not going to break anything, and the only person you will annoy is yourself, but it will save a lot of traffic.If you're still unsure, ASK. Regards Dave.... **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 11:21:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Emergency Cell Queens Tom_Elliot wrote > For someone with only a half dozen hives, it is possible to raise > decent queens from emergency cells. As I recall - and have tried > mostly for fun - you remove the queen (to a nuc or whatever) and > return after four days. At that time you remove all queen cells which > have been capped (indicating queens begun with advanced larvae). > Return again after several more days to remove all but one or two I certainly don't like picking fault, but regretfully Tom left out one of two critical points which if someone tries this method it will fail. So I would like to rewrite this to improve it. Day one, make up a small nuc, young bees, at least two frames of sealed brood, open stores, pollen, no eggs or open larvae. This can be locked up with a screened entrance for 24 hrs(one complete sun cycle) either on top of a hive, double screened, to take advantage of rising heat, or off to one side. FEED 1-1 or 2-1 syrup. Day two, release entrance and allow bees to fly. Day three, check for new eggs. You might have transfered the queen by mistake! Day four. Check for emergeny queen cells. Possibly even sealed cells. Check very, very carefully as scrub queen cells can be very small and difficult to see, try shaking or brushing bees off to make sure. Now we can add eggs from our favorite hive. A frame of young eggs should be added, there are lots of ideas on frame preparation but I have found that the bees don't need it. Bear in mind that the egg we want them to use won't hatch for 3 days, so note where on the frame they are. Day eight. Check again for queen cells. Remove any which are sealed, and if some are very close together remove one to leave them well spaced. Day thirteen. By now you should have a number of well shaped and sealed cells. Day eighteen. You could if you wish, take some of the cells and use them in other nucs. If you disturb them before the cells 14th day, from egg laying, there is a danger of damaged or missing wings. Day twenty. Queens will emerge. Be patient, within 8 days you should see eggs, as the new queen takes over. If you don't see eggs, then think of trying again. Lots of things go wrong with the mating flight, especially if you have Eastern King birds around. Please , before I get jumped on, this is not intended to be the definative method of queen rearing. I used it for many years, and it worked for me!! **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 11:22:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: New to Beekeeping >FROM: BeeKeeper Art Halstead >conditions, etc, somebody always has extra >equipment at bargain prices (never buy at >full retail!) and always glad to talk bees, >(most of their family has heard all their Hardly the best advise, unless of course you want to buy other people's problems. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 10:02:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp of AGF 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 6 Jan 1996 to 7 Jan 1996 Harmony Farm, In Canada, two Bee Master Courses are held, each every two years. One is held at Simon Fraser University (Vancouver ,BC) while the other is held at University of Guelph. Next month (February 19-24) the Bee Master Course will be held at SFU. Registration for the one-week intensive course is limited to 50. Over the years, it seemed more and more people from outside BC have been attracted to the course. Two years ago, there were participants from as far as Alaska, California, Manitoba and Utah. For anyone interested in more information, they may may call; Conferences Services The Halpern Center Simon Fraser University ph. (604) 291-4910 fx. (604) 291-3420 regards, Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 10:43:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp of AGF 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 6 Jan 1996 to 7 Jan 1996 Dear Adrian Re. Request for Canadians As some of my colleagues already responded, the Varroa mite was first detected in British Columbia in the Fraser Valley in August 1992, in a swarm trap at the border with Washington State. The Fraser Valley was declared generlly infested a few months later. Its incidence was still low but its distribution quite wide in the valley. Extensive surevys through most of the province during subsequent years revealed that the mite was limited to border areas with the US. In 1994, some incidental Varroa finds were made along highway corridors northward to the (BC and Alberta) PEace River region. Clear evidence of the effects of transporting infested colonies along highways. In 1995, a significant introduction of Varroa was observed when large numbers of colonies were allowed to be moved from the (infested) Fraser Valley to the (fruit growing) Okanagan Valley. In short, the Varroa mite has steadily and slowly found its way into beekeeping areas farther away from the Canada/US border. This expansion has been clearly the result of the actions of beekeepers moving infested colonies around. Since 1987 (well before the arrival of TM and Varroa), BC placed a ban on the movement of all bees from the mainland to Vancouver Island (& adjacent islands). Until now, extensive surveys have shown that neither Varroa nor TM occur in this protected area. Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 14:10:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: thymol What I want to know is, WHERE CAN YOU GET IT? I often want a mold inhibitor when I relax specimens. Can one buy thymol as a member of the public not connected with an instutition? Can one buy it in small amounts (less than $15)? Any info (for the U.S.) would be appreciated. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 02:30:02 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Veldhuis Subject: Re: Master beekeeping School In-Reply-To: from "Harmony Farm" at Jan 7, 96 08:56:11 am Harmony Farm insightfully writes: > > Does anyone know when and where there will be a Master Beekeeping school > this year. I think there was one in Ontario Canada last year. Interested > in either Canada or USA. > Simon-Frazer University is holding one this year. This is in BC, Canada. > Deb & Greg Kalicin > Harmony Farm > Lisbon, NY > harmony@northnet.org > -- ------------oooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo------------- Phil Veldhuis | If I must be a fool, as all those who reason Winnipeg. MB, Canada | or believe any thing certainly are, my follies veldhui@cc.umanitoba.ca | shall at least be natural and agreeable. David Hume (1739) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:01:36 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: F Hogenboom Subject: thymol Hi, Further information about thymol: Many chemical companys sell Thymol (Merck, ICN, SIGMA); the price varies between $15 and 25$ for 100 gram, for The Netherlands, maybe for the USA cheaper. Ask first your local chemist's or druggist's shop, they will order it for you if not in stock. Moth's balls (from your wardrobe) contain Thymol and Campher, so it is a very common substance. >From two publications: 1. honey contained 0.04 mg Thymol/kg after (but how long?) application. 2. honey containing 50 mg Thymol is undangerous to human. 3. waxsamples contained in March 45 mg/kg, but decreased to 0.15 mg/kg in May source: Deutsches Bienen Journal: (1993)8, 430-433: Stefanie Schultz Apidologie (1991)22, 135-145: F.Chiesa LD50 orally in mice is 1.8 g/kg, for Nicotine LD50 is0.06 g/kg. Francois e-mail: F.Hogenboom.Pharm@med.vu.nl ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 10:40:39 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Re: thymol Is it something that CAN be used in the US??? Mark Egloff MEGLOFF@CSC.COM ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: thymol Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at CSC_uuxch Date: 1/9/96 6:33 AM Hi, Further information about thymol: Many chemical companys sell Thymol (Merck, ICN, SIGMA); the price varies between $15 and 25$ for 100 gram, for The Netherlands, maybe for the USA cheaper. Ask first your local chemist's or druggist's shop, they will order it for you if not in stock. Moth's balls (from your wardrobe) contain Thymol and Campher, so it is a very common substance. >From two publications: 1. honey contained 0.04 mg Thymol/kg after (but how long?) application. 2. honey containing 50 mg Thymol is undangerous to human. 3. waxsamples contained in March 45 mg/kg, but decreased to 0.15 mg/kg in May source: Deutsches Bienen Journal: (1993)8, 430-433: Stefanie Schultz Apidologie (1991)22, 135-145: F.Chiesa LD50 orally in mice is 1.8 g/kg, for Nicotine LD50 is0.06 g/kg. Francois e-mail: F.Hogenboom.Pharm@med.vu.nl ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 16:48:26 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Races? Comments: To: ohbee-l@sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu Gentlepeople: The question for this newbie is: "Which race of honey bees should I go with?" I have used Italians for the past three years, losing them each fall and winter and starting again with packages in the spring. I live in Dayton, in the Southwestern quadrant of Ohio. We have (I think) a honey flow that runs sporadically from about the end of April to the fall flow ending in about mid to late September. There are several periods of dearth during that time. Our winters are seldom below 10 degrees (F) for very long and there are periodic days when temperatures will get above freezing and the bees can fly. However, the state's winters seem moist. Which race, folks, would suit my conditions best? How does Varroa/Trachael/Foulbrood resistance come in to play between the races? If I haven't given enough information, then what should I consider in evaluating the races? Your thoughts...? Mark Egloff Dayton, Ohio MEGLOFF@CSC.COM ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 21:02:16 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Subject: Re: thymol >Many chemical companys sell Thymol (Merck, ICN, SIGMA); the price varies >between $15 and 25$ for 100 gram, for The Netherlands, maybe for the USA >cheaper. Ask first your local chemist's or druggist's shop, they will order >it for you if not in stock. In US you can order thymol USP for $32/pound from Chem Lab Supplies, Placentia CA phone 714 630-7902 or fax 714 630-3553. >Moth's balls (from your wardrobe) contain Thymol and Campher, so it is a very >common substance. In US mothballs are either naphthalene or paradichlorobenzene. I do not believe our mothballs contain thymol. Mark Jensen-Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com Los Altos Hills, CA, USA fax 415 941 3488 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 00:17:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: thymol cont >>Moth's balls (from your wardrobe) contain Thymol and Campher, so it is a very >>common substance. >In US mothballs are either naphthalene or paradichlorobenzene. I do not >believe our mothballs contain thymol. They don't. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA No Web site, but you can still 'finger' me. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 08:54:12 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Morten Brixtofte Petersen Subject: Software Hello Bee - people! I am new to BEE-L (and to bees). I have been "listening" for a while and find it very interesting. BEE-L seems to be a ressource for information on bees and beekeeping, so I will try it myself: I suppose that beekeepers with network acces also use computers in management of their bees. I am currently looking for some software for this purpose. The software should be used for keeping records of queens, hives, hive performance, behavior, honey etc. There is a copule of programs available here i Denmark, but Ifind them too expencive for my purpose. I thougt that maybee som macro programming in a programme like Excel could do - but I migth be wrong on this. Does anyone have a free- or shareware program for this? (MS-Dos or MS-Windows) Thankyou Regards Morten mp@kvl.dk Denmark, Scandinavia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:14:29 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Morten Brixtofte Petersen Subject: Hand Lotion Hello Some time ago there was a request for recepies for hand lotion. I had to find the book first (profitable beekeeping by Dr Laurie Croft, Elmwood books 1986) but here it comes: "Hand Cream: BeesWax 10 Oz Liquid Parrafin 1 pint Water # pint Using a double saucepan (what is that?) the beeswax is heated with the liquid parrafin until it has all melted. The hot water (containing a few drops of perfume) is added with stirring. Continue heating and mixing until all is well blended. Cool slowly and continue to stir until it begins to set. Pour into small jars." I must say that I have not tried it myself- yet -- but good luck. The book cited here is a good one, and contains more recepies (Mead, face cream, shoe polish etc.) regards Morten mp@kvl.dk DAnmark, Scandinavia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 08:44:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hults Patricia Subject: Quality of honey I am a novice beekeeper. I extracted my first batch of honey this summer. People I have given the honey to have raved about how wonderful it tastes (beyond the mere polite level). I assumed it was because the hives are located in a wonderful spot with a grove of honey locus trees, old apple trees and other yummy sources. But this batch of honey also sat in the hives over 2 winters (I am embarressed to say). Did this aging do anything to improve the quality of the flavor? Pat Hults hultsp@snycob.cobleskill.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 14:51:23 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: F Hogenboom Subject: Re: Quality of honey hi Pat, Are you sure about the two years old honey in your hives, I think it is honey from the last season. I have always the same experience, when I presented honey to friends, neighbours or collegues and they are right of course! Good luck! Francois e-mail F.Hogenboom.Pharm@med.vu.nl ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:31:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm T. Sanford" Subject: Bee Races In-Reply-To: <01HZTPXTIVDY8WYE6U@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> For information on bee races, best consult Bee Culture, January 1994, Vol 122, no 1...This tells most of the story.. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Malcolm (Tom) Sanford Extension Apiculturist University of Florida Mailing Address: Bldg 970, Hull Rd., Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Voice phone 904/392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX 904/392-0190 INTERNET:MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU ==================================================================== Publisher of APIS -- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm Instructor of Principles of Entomology, ENY 3005-- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/eny3005/eny3005syl.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:37:47 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Orchard Mason Bee Help Please: A local orchardist called and asked if I had any information about the "orchard mason bee." Told him I might be able to obtain something from the "Bee-List)". Anyone out there able/willing to help. I am sure his primary interest in in the possibility of pollination from this bee. Thanks, Jim Shoemaker Brookline, MO (near Springfield and Bass Pro Shop) jshoemak@mail.orion.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 12:41:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: thymol In-Reply-To: <9600098212.AA821212860@cscuuxch.dayton.csc.com> On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Mark D. Egloff wrote: > Is it something that CAN be used in the US??? > Mark Egloff > MEGLOFF@CSC.COM Not approvedin U.S. yet. You may want to contact Dr. Nick Calderone at the Beltsville lab in Maryland,> > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: thymol > Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at CSC_uuxch > Date: 1/9/96 6:33 AM > > > Hi, > Further information about thymol: > > Many chemical companys sell Thymol (Merck, ICN, SIGMA); the price varies > between $15 and 25$ for 100 gram, for The Netherlands, maybe for the USA > cheaper. Ask first your local chemist's or druggist's shop, they will order > it for you if not in stock. > > Moth's balls (from your wardrobe) contain Thymol and Campher, so it is a very > common substance. > > >From two publications: > 1. honey contained 0.04 mg Thymol/kg after (but how long?) application. > 2. honey containing 50 mg Thymol is undangerous to human. > 3. waxsamples contained in March 45 mg/kg, but decreased to 0.15 mg/kg in May > > source: Deutsches Bienen Journal: (1993)8, 430-433: Stefanie Schultz > Apidologie (1991)22, 135-145: F.Chiesa > > LD50 orally in mice is 1.8 g/kg, for Nicotine LD50 is0.06 g/kg. > > Francois > e-mail: F.Hogenboom.Pharm@med.vu.nl > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x x x Vince & Carole Coppola vcoppola@epix.net x x Coppola Apiaries, (716)965-2904 x x 10220 Bradigan Rd. x x Forestville, N.Y. 14062 x x x x Western New York Beekeepers Association x x x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:06:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Races? Comments: To: "Mark D. Egloff" In-Reply-To: <9600098212.AA821234948@cscuuxch.dayton.csc.com> On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Mark D. Egloff wrote: > Gentlepeople: > The question for this newbie is: "Which race of honey bees should I > go with?" I have used Italians for the past three years, losing them Mark- I can comment on tracheal mite resistance. We have screened italian, buckfast, and new world carn. bees for use in our breeding program and have found resistance in each race. Selection is more important than race with regard to HTM resistance. Of course there are other differances to consider. Personaly I prefer a carniolan type bee here in the north but others still like italian or buck. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x x x Vince & Carole Coppola vcoppola@epix.net x x Coppola Apiaries, (716)965-2904 x x 10220 Bradigan Rd. x x Forestville, N.Y. 14062 x x x x Western New York Beekeepers Association x x x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 14:16:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Races? Comments: To: "Mark D. Egloff" In-Reply-To: <9600098212.AA821234948@cscuuxch.dayton.csc.com> There was a good article in BEE CULTURE a year and a half ago on the different races and their habits and personalities. It even had some nice color photos as well. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, University Of Scranton | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | reaction is the alternative. ddc1@SCRANTON | -Daniel De Leon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 15:34:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: thymol The only registered (legal chemical) treatment for Varroa mites in the United States at this time is Apistan strips (fluvalinate). Accordingly, Thymol is presently "off limits" to U. S. beekeepers. Hopefully one of the many alternatives to Apistan that I read about on Bee-L will be registered in the U. S. very soon. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg MD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 15:49:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Races? > The question for this newbie is: "Which race of honey bees should I > go with?" I have used Italians for the past three years, losing them > each fall and winter and starting again with packages in the spring. It would appear that you have a major problem. To lose them every year is more than bad luck! I live in an area far colder and a much shorter season and I don't lose my bees. If you would care to correspond privately, ask away. As to best race? Over the years I have had a number of different ones. I believe it's "much of a muchness". Carniolan seem to start slow in the spring, Italians can use too many stores in late fall, mainly because they don't stop brooding as early as some. But some people like that as it produces stronger hives for winter. The Buckfast don't seem to like making wax, but if you like early risers then they are the best. I have seen Buckfast bringing pollen in before our local bees have broken cluster. Caucasions make so much propolis they are almost impossible to open. The dark German bee seems to only fly on bright sunny days. There are so many different traits,and everyone looks for something different! No doubt I will draw a storm of protest over this, but would remind everyone this is only my opinion. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:10:36 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Philippe Audibert SIGN OFF BEE-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 14:13:14 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: thymol > The only registered (legal chemical) treatment for Varroa mites in > the United States at this time is Apistan strips (fluvalinate). > Accordingly, Thymol is presently "off limits" to U. S. beekeepers. True! However I wonder if this is true if the hives in question are *never* to be used to produce food for humans? eg. hives for building cells or mating queens, hives for pollination only, hives for experimentation, observation hives, etc. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:40:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Hand Lotion recipes - LONG Below is the synopsis of the recipes I got for beeswax hand lotions. I'm afraid I put them all into one big file and some of the contributors' names were lost - but everyone was from here on BEE-L, so, collectively, thank you!! Recipe 1: 6 oz. mineral oil (also called liquid paraffin) 2 oz. beeswax 8 oz distilled water 2 TSP borax (I don't know if that's teaspoon or tablespoon) In a double boiler, heat oil and wax to 160 F. At the same time in a sauce pan, heat the water to 160 F. When both reach this temperature, add the borax to the water, stir briefly until it's dissolved. Maintaining the temperature, pour the borax-water solution into the beeswax-oil solution while stirring briskly. Turn heat off and continue stirring for at least 5 minutes. When the mixture has cooled to 140 F, pour into containers and let cool. Recipe 2: 1/4 cup beeswax 1/4 cup almond oil 1/4 cup honey 1 tablespoon pollen 1/4 cup petroleum jelly (e.g., Vaseline) 1/4 cup glycerin 2 tablespoons liquid lecithin Melt the beeswax and petro jelly together in a double boiler. Add the rest of the ingredients, heat and stir for 4-5 minutes until smooth. Pour into containers and let cool. (Hardens as it cools.) Recipe addenda: One can substitute other ingredients: use refined olive oil instead of mineral oil or petro jelly; add lanolin (sheep body oil, which makes a pretty good hand lotion all by itself); add fragrant oils like lemon rind oil to make it smell nice. I have not made any of these yet myself, but I have found that one needs a few different bottles of handlotion, of different consistencies, to have smooth skin. The really hard, gooey materials like beeswax and lanolin are best as a moisture barrier when you work with your hands or get them wet a lot. THe lighter, runnier materials like glycerin, olive oil, and mineral oil are best for lightly coating dry hands to condition the skin. Some of the best ingredients for this last purpose are unpronounceable chemicals found in commercial hand lotions. But beeswax lotion in my opinion is one of the best for heavy-duty use. IMPORTANT CAUTION: Wax is flammable like crazy. You must be alert when heating it so it doesn't catch fire. Use a double-boiler. A double boiler is one pan set inside another one. The outer pan is filled with water. The inner pan holds the wax mixture. Heat the water in the outer pan to cook the stuff in the inside pan. The bottom of the inside pan should not sit directly on the bottom of the outside pan - there should be water between them. One person says he uses a "wax pan" set inside a frying pan. I'm sure this all was perfectly clear :-) so go for it! Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA No Web site, but you can still 'finger' me. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 21:25:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Races? Comments: To: David Eyre In-Reply-To: <199601102050.PAA21540@segwun.muskoka.net> On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, David Eyre wrote: > > The question for this newbie is: "Which race of honey bees should I > > go with?" I have used Italians for the past three years, losing them > > each fall and winter and starting again with packages in the spring. > To the originator of this- One more comment on the selection of race. The usual descriptions of the various races are quite generalized. There is quite a bit of variability within each race. Especialy here in North America since there has been no major importation of bees in 75 yrs. Also, bees freely crossbreed in most cases and the races have been separated by little more than color and general behavior.> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x x x Vince & Carole Coppola vcoppola@epix.net x x Coppola Apiaries, (716)965-2904 x x 10220 Bradigan Rd. x x Forestville, N.Y. 14062 x x x x Western New York Beekeepers Association x x x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 21:46:41 -0500 Reply-To: godave@infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Johnson Organization: mailhost.nr.infi.net Subject: Re: New to Beekeeping >FROM: BeeKeeper Art Halstead >conditions, etc, somebody always has extra >equipment at bargain prices (never buy at >full retail!) and always glad to talk bees, >(most of their family has heard all their Hardly the best advise, unless of course you want to buy other people's problems. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * Guess what? Art has wonderful advice and a world of knowledge of beekeeping. Don't take this quote out of context of his entire post, particularly the advice about a joining a local bee club for new beekeepers. He gave me that advice some years ago and as a 'student' of his I appreciate the wealth of knowledge he has shared freely with me as well as the Tidewater Beekeepers Association, especially with regard to diseases and pests and used equipment, probably understanding as much as any other beekeeper outside 'academia'. Dave Johnson Suffolk, VA godave@infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:11:06 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: New to Beekeeping Comments: To: Dave Johnson In-Reply-To: <199601110241.VAA24062@moe.infi.net> On Wed, 10 Jan 1996, Dave Johnson wrote: > >FROM: BeeKeeper Art Halstead > >conditions, etc, somebody always has extra > >equipment at bargain prices (never buy at > >full retail!) and always glad to talk bees, > >(most of their family has heard all their > > Hardly the best advise, unless of course you want to buy other people's > problems. > **************************************************** > * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * > > Guess what? Art has wonderful advice and a world of knowledge of > beekeeping. Don't take this quote out of context of his entire post, > particularly the advice about a joining a local bee club for new > beekeepers. Thanks Dave for standing up for what I thought was excellent advice. As far as an other beekeepers' problems are concerned, I'd say we're all in the same soup together. If there is a problem in your neighbourhood, it's your problem whether you have brand new or old second hand equipment. As beekeepers, the best thing we can do is get together and share, because although sharing brought us many of our problems, it also brought us the solutions. To start out without the advice and support of older, neighbouring beekeepers is folly. I admit it freely because I did it and I paid for the lesson many times over. Whenever we try to deal with problems and new experiences on our own, we miss out on the wealth of wisdom that others are waiting to share. To beeginners: That doesn't mean that you should only listen to the loudest or most self assured beekeeper you meet, but rather should talk to many and listen to all and follow the more successful and patient ones. By all means find your local club and go to a few meetings and don't be afraid to buy from some members - with council from the others, of course. IM(H)O, anyhow. W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK Rural Route One Swalwell Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Email: dicka@cuug.ab.ca or allend@internode.net Futures, Art & Honey:http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 21:58:31 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Subject: Re: thymol >The only registered (legal chemical) treatment for Varroa mites in the United >States at this time is Apistan strips (fluvalinate). Accordingly, Thymol is >presently "off limits" to U. S. beekeepers. > >Hopefully one of the many alternatives to Apistan that I read about on Bee-L >will be registered in the U. S. very soon. > >W. G. Miller I would not hold your breath on any registration of simple remedies. Nobody is willing to spend the money on a varroa treatment that will not produce profits. The most likely scenario is that Sandoz will milk Apistan for all they can and then when it starts to fail us, they will come out with another expensive product that will be the new only allowed treatment. I have said it before, our bee disease medication apparatus in USA is BROKEN!!! Mark Jensen-Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com Los Altos Hills, CA, USA fax 415 941 3488 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 00:33:07 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rob Bidleman Subject: Contributions In-Reply-To: My name is Robert and I am planning to add files/information/etc relating to bee products to my web page. Any contributions and/or pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Rob - ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 09:09:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Races? Dave Cawley and Tom Sandford both wrote in answer > There was a good article in BEE CULTURE a year and a half ago on >the different races and their habits and personalities. It even had some >nice color photos as well. Please, I would request we refrain from indicating articles for us to read. It is extremely difficult to refer to articles in magazines that we don't all subscribe to. This is not a critism or a slight on any magazine, more an observation on the volume of magazines available worldwide for beekeepers. Under the circumstances I would suggest a small precis of the article posted on the Net would be far more valuable. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 09:26:36 +22324924 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Information (was re: races) In-Reply-To: <199601111409.JAA27982@segwun.muskoka.net> from "David Eyre" at Jan 11, 96 09:09:13 am Hello, David Eyre wrote: > Please, I would request we refrain from indicating articles for us to read. > It is extremely difficult to refer to articles in magazines that we don't > all subscribe to. This is not a critism or a slight on any magazine, more an > observation on the volume of magazines available worldwide for beekeepers. > Under the circumstances I would suggest a small precis of the article posted > on the Net would be far more valuable. Citing articles is the norm for information dissemination, and for referencing. If an individual makes a small precis from a cited article, than the article loses objectivity, and inherent factual value--unless the author is well known and if you agree with the author, then the article is useful, maybe. Yes, it is frustrating to be unable to read cited articles, but interlibrary loan, and all of the beekeepers on the net should allow for fairly good availability of cited articles to those who cannot look them up. The age of on-line, hypertext available documentation is not quit here yet. Using a library (hard copy based) is still a very valuable experience. Adam -- _________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 08:26:22 CST6CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Rodney L. Holloway" Organization: Ag. and Environmental Safety Subject: Re: Races? > Dave Cawley and Tom Sandford both wrote in answer > > > There was a good article in BEE CULTURE a year and a half ago on > >the different races and their habits and personalities. It even had some > >nice color photos as well. > > Please, I would request we refrain from indicating articles for us to read. > It is extremely difficult to refer to articles in magazines that we don't > all subscribe to. This is not a critism or a slight on any magazine, more an > observation on the volume of magazines available worldwide for beekeepers. > Under the circumstances I would suggest a small precis of the article posted > on the Net would be far more valuable. I find suggested references very helpful and a good reason for me to be a member of the bee-list. Rodney Holloway ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 07:51:07 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ken Umbach (kumbach@library.ca.gov)" Subject: Article citations (was: Races?) In-Reply-To: <199601111409.JAA27982@segwun.muskoka.net> > Please, I would request we refrain from indicating articles for us to read. > It is extremely difficult to refer to articles in magazines that we don't > all subscribe to. This is not a critism or a slight on any magazine, more an I would like to respectfully disagree with this request. Assuming that the correspondent has found the article to be both worthwhile and directly related to the thread, so advising the list seems quite proper, as practically anyone who really wants the article can obtain it via interlibrary loan, from the publisher, or by other means. HOWEVER, it would be helpful to specify the date/issue volume and number, title, author, and page numbers, to facilitate obtaining the article, as librarians do not necessarily have the time or expertise in the subject area to track down that information. Just my opinion ... -- ||| (@ @) Ken Umbach ----------------------------------ooOo-( )-oOoo------ California State Library -- California Research Bureau 900 N Street, Suite 300 -- Sacramento, CA 95814 (916-653-6002) Opinions expressed above are NOT to be considered those of my employer. Frankly, I have my doubts that they are even my own. ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 11:16:08 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Races Review/Clarification Gentlepeople: I seem to have started a minor landslide of diverging topics. Obviously my question was not framed properly. Originally I asked "Which race of honey bees should I go with?" I then described a little bit about my area. My intent was to solicit experiences with the different races of bees from people who had worked with each of the major different races (Italian, Carniolan, Caucasion (should I add Buckfast?)). For those of us who are new to this pastime(obsession) "war stories" are invaluable. I thank all of you who referred me to the BEE Culture article. I have read it several times and it is extremely helpful in understanding the different characteristics of the races and what was observed over a short period of time. But it did not give a newbee (chuckle) an assessment of a long time use of the particular race. One season of assessment seems to me to be good information. Ten seasons of experiences and evaluations would be even better. Your experiences with the different types of bees would serve me and perhaps others with the equivalent of more than ten seasons of our own efforts and experimentation. Many of you have already come to prefer one race of bee over another. Why did you decide? What experiences did you have that moved you from one race to use another? I have not the experience nor have I been able to afford to buy several packages of the different races to conduct my own experiments (as of yet). I thank you all again in advance for all the help your discussions are to me and other new beekeepers as we "listen in". Bear with us as we ask what may be naive (shall I say ignorant) questions and share your "war stories". Mark Egloff Dayton, Ohio MEGLOFF@CSC.COM 2 Hives of Italians, Plans for more. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:30:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp of AGF 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 9 Jan 1996 to 10 Jan 1996 Re. Orchard Mason Bees A delightful booklet on the Orchard Mason Bee was written by Brian L. Griffin of Bellingham, Washington. You may contact Brian at (206) 733-3283, and fx. (206) 647-2988. You may also wish to check the catalogue of the "Nature Company" where the same booklet is sold together with mini-starter nests. The Mason Bees are fascinating and remarkably effective pollinators in orchards. In some local areas where honeybees are in low numbers, Mason bees may be the principal pollinators. Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:50:46 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re Races In-Reply-To: <9600118213.AA821387823@cscuuxch.dayton.csc.com> I thank all of you who referred me to the BEE Culture article. I > have read it several times and it is extremely helpful in > understanding the different characteristics of the races and what was > observed over a short period of time. But it did not give a > races to conduct my own experiments (as of yet). > I thank you all again in advance for all the help your discussions > are to me and other new beekeepers as we "listen in". Bear with us as > we ask what may be naive (shall I say ignorant) questions and share > your "war stories". > Mark Egloff > Dayton, Ohio > MEGLOFF@CSC.COM > 2 Hives of Italians, Plans for more. > Hello Mark, You brought up a question which has no real answer to it. Because of the cross breeding and lack of a new fresh gene pool , we have bees with traits and color. I have read about Italians that were dark in there native land. So color is not the complete way of telling what you have . I have been down in California picking up bees and queens. I was picking the queens out of the nucs myself. We were in a yard that had Carniolans. I did see plenty of light Queens. ( about 5%) So I talked to the breeder about the Queens color. He was breeding for traits like lack of swarming ect. We do need more work on breeding bees for the beekeeper. I know that there are some very good people working on parts of the puzzle. The mite is only one part and the egg pattern is another. The picture is rather complex and it needs to have a quality control list that all the breeders are working to. I wish I could tell you what bees would do best in your area. Maybe look to Canada. What ever bees that you start with , you will learn and enjoy that wonderful insect. Good Luck Roy Nettlebeck Tahuya River Apiaries Tahuya Wash. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 15:49:48 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Hardy Organization: Di's Online Cafe Subject: need bee counts!!! Hello all, I'm a newspaper reporter at the Mobile Register in Mobile, Ala. I'm working on a story about the damage done by varroa mites and tracheal mites. There are no bee counts or surveys available for our local area that could document the decline in either native bees or managed bees. Therefore, I need to know if there are any studies from anywhere in the country -- the closer to Alabama the better -- that would document a decline. Sorry for the short notice, but I need it by Friday, Jan. 12 around 3 p.m. at the latest. If you have any such information, e-mail me at mhardy@dibbs.com, or call me at 1-800-239-1340, ext. 574. Thanks, Michael Hardy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:40:19 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Races Review/Clarification In-Reply-To: <9600118213.AA821387823@cscuuxch.dayton.csc.com> Hello again Mark. This race selection thing can get really sticky. As I said last time, there is alot of variability within the races. When I started, 25 yrs ago, practicaly everyone ran Italians. Not all Italians are alike. Those selected by southern breeders tend to be the broody, large population type because is what they need for package production. This type of bee can be a problem in the north because they don't cut back brood production soon enough. Migratory operations do well with these. Similar to the Italian is the Starline. I ran these for several years, but found they had poor wintering characteristics especially when Tracheal mites arrived. Thats when I switched to Carniolan. We tried several sources of these and found the New World type best because they acted more like carnys. These bees are very conservative with winter stores. We have very little starvation and when infected with tracheal mite (HTM) often come through alive although not necessarily strong. This experience is what led us into breeding for resistance. We now have 22 lines, some from each race, all screened for resistance. I have very detailed records of winter loss and honey production back to '83. Heres a short story of what happened: '75-'84- Ran Italians, good production, 5-10% winter loss. '84-'88- Tracheal mites arrived, production dropped, winter loss rose to 30%. However the starline yards where more like 90%. '88-'90- We could not get switched to carniolan fast enough. By 1990 losses were 50%. This is when we realized that just having dark bees was not enough. '91-'95- Losses now back to 5-15% due to breeding for HTM resistance. Also production is rising because of selection. I realize this is kind of sketchy, but a complete story could fill a book. Maybe you should try a comparitave test of your our and see what works well for you. We will have a limited number of queens for sale this summer if you would like to try some from our program. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x x x Vince & Carole Coppola vcoppola@epix.net x x Coppola Apiaries, (716)965-2904 x x 10220 Bradigan Rd. x x Forestville, N.Y. 14062 x x x x Western New York Beekeepers Association x x x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:13:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "JOHN A. HALSTEAD" Subject: Re: New to Beekeeping FROM: Art Halstead, VA Beekeeper OK, if you are picky about used equipment: I did not mention we here in Virginia can have any equipment fumigated/sterilized for free by VA Dept of Ag. Other locations are not so fortunate, In North Carolina for example, there is a modest fee ($0.10-0.50) per each piece. P.S. ....The NC State Beekeepers Assoc will hold their spring meeting in Raleigh on March 1 & 2nd, not the 2 & 3rd as posted previously. .....Good Luck ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:16:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "JOHN A. HALSTEAD" Subject: Master Beekeeping Programs From: Art Halstead, VA Beekeeper March 1 & 2, 1996 North Carolina State Beekeepers Association Annual Spring meeting in Raleigh, NC. Wake County Agricultural Center NCSBKA along with UNC runs a Master Beekeeping program consisting of four increasing difficult levels, each attained by three areas of examination, (written, practical field examination, and public service). Field exam is having you open up a live hive and explain what you see now and what is should look like in the fall or winter. Public service credits are earned by being an officer in a local bee club, giving a bee related demo at a meeting, getting positive exposure in the local news media, etc. Learning sessions are held on site prior to convening spring and summer meetings. NO FEE. Contact: Irv Rackly, Pres. 2317 Leggett Rd Rocky Mount, NC 27695 ph 919-446-5487 July 29-Aug 2, 1996 Eastern Apicultral Society .....James Madison Univ, Harrisonburg, VA Two day Beekeeping short course, some basic, some advanced, held prior to meeting. (probably July 27 & 28) Master Beekeeping test consists of two parts: tricky written test and field exam. Requires $25 fee each try, one level program. Contact: Dr. Dewey Caron, Chairman, Univ Delaware Newark, DE 19717, ph 302-831-2526 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 13:07:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: Re: Races? David Eyre writes: >>Please, I would request we refrain from indicating articles for us to read. I disagree. Article references are the heart and soul of self-education. >>It is extremely difficult to refer to articles in magazines that we don't >>all subscribe to. This is not a critism or a slight on any magazine, more an >>observation on the volume of magazines available worldwide for beekeepers. That's why they are at the library. (Of course, you need access to a university library. If you're really out in the sticks, that could be difficult.) >>Under the circumstances I would suggest a small precis of the article posted >>on the Net would be far more valuable. But most of the time it's too much work to rewrite and encapsulate all the info in a good article. As a student, I had to dig up and xerox hundreds of papers. It was a pain, but now I have a very nice (and thick) file of everything about anything I needed to know. If you need the information badly enough to ask someone else to type it up for you, then you need it badly enough to struggle over to the library and look it up... (this is your advisor talking :-). Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA No Web site, but you can still 'finger' me. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 12:07:42 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: A pollination question/sunflowers I have a question regarding the viability of pollen, for the puposes of subsequent pollination, that is collected in pollen traps from the honeybee's pollen baskets. Specifically the question involves the pollen of sunflower, if that makes a difference. A breeder of hybrid sunflowers wishes to use pollen collected from bees to subsequently pollinate other sunflowers. (The pollen clumps are to be dried and separated.) Hand collected pollen is usually viable for about two months if stored properly, however moisture adversely affects viability. My questions therefore: 1. Is the clumped pollen collected from bees in pollen traps of higher moisture than the pollen shed by plants? 2. Does the bee add moisture, or any other substance, to the pollen to cause clumping or is it merely clumped because it is mechanically packed together? 3. Does anyone know of references regarding the viability of pollen, for pollination purposes, of bee collected pollen? Whitney Cranshaw Department of Entomology Colorado State University Ft. Collins, CO 80523 wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:03:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Races Review/Clarification > I thank you all again in advance for all the help your discussions > are to me and other new beekeepers as we "listen in". Bear with us as > we ask what may be naive (shall I say ignorant) questions and share > your "war stories". Someone once said "There are no ignorant questions, only ignorant listeners" I say ask away, this is a disscussion group. I believe the art of disscusion is to listen and make comment, those who don't like it can do the other. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:03:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Information (was re: races) >referencing. If an individual makes a small precis from a cited article, >than the article loses objectivity, and inherent factual value--unless the >author is well known and if you agree with the author, then the article is >useful, maybe. > >Yes, it is frustrating to be unable to read cited articles, but >interlibrary loan, and all of the beekeepers on the net should allow for >fairly good availability of cited articles to those who cannot look them up. >The age of on-line, hypertext available documentation is not quit here yet. >Using a library (hard copy based) is still a very valuable experience. Point taken Adam, But some of us don't have all these ammenities available, and to subscribe to all the available magazines is not econmically viable. To quote chapter, verse,and author before the precis does not IMHO make the article less valuable **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 19:05:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: di5 Subject: Re: A pollination question/sunflowers In-Reply-To: <9601121907.AA98546@lamar.ColoState.EDU> I'd be surprised if the pollen collected from pollen traps would still be useable for pollination of sunflowers. Bees typically use regurgitated nectar to moisten pollen for packing it into corbiculae. This might have a negative effect on viability, and would probably make it difficult to restore the pollen to a form useful for pollination. Not a lot is known about the lifetime of viable pollen grains, but in some species it's measured in hours, so unless the pollen were collected immediately from the trap it might not still be viable. If you want to test pollen grains for viability you might look at the book 'Techniques for Pollination Biologists', by C. A. Kearns and D. W. Inouye. University Press of Colorado, Niwot, CO. Dr. David W. Inouye Dept. of Zoology, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742 E-mail: di5@umail.umd.edu Phone: 301-405-6946 FAX: 301-314-9358 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:50:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "R. C. Chapin" Subject: thymol (Mark Jensen wrote: I would not hold your breath on any registration of simple remedies. Nobody is willing to spend the money on a varroa treatment that will not produce profits. The most likely scenario is that Sandoz will milk Apistan for all they can and then when it starts to fail us, they will come out with another expensive product that will be the new only allowed treatment. I have said it before, our bee disease medication apparatus in USA is BROKEN!!!") If we need more clout, maybe we had better listen to Mark Winston, Kim Flottam & Internal Review Committee of AAPA (Bee Culture, Jan. '96, vol. 124, no. 1, M. Winston: "Too Many Cooks", p. 18; K. Flottam: "Inner Cover", p. 6) re. putting Humpty Dumpty together by using good waterproof glue on our fragmented honeybee related organizations! Just an observation from a novice. Richard Chapin Montrose, PA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 23:14:04 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Keith G. Benson" Subject: Jentner System Hello, Would anyone know if there is a book descibing Quenn Rearing with the Jentner (sp.?) System? Also does anyone have any strong feelings one way or another about the system itself or it otential use by a novice at queen rearing? Thanks to all, ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 21:53:18 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Hardy Organization: Di's Online Cafe Subject: bee counts Thanks to all who responded to my request for information on the degree of damage bees have suffered due to mites. I got almost a dozen responses, most of them helpful, and all of them quick. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 02:22:49 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Caldeira Subject: Re: Jentner System At 11:14 PM 1/12/96 -0600, you wrote: >Hello, > >Would anyone know if there is a book descibing Quenn Rearing with the >Jentner (sp.?) System? Also does anyone have any strong feelings one way or >another about the system itself or it otential use by a novice at queen rearing? > >Thanks to all, > I don't know of a book on the Jenter queen rearing method, but I wrote an article on it that appeared in Bee Culture magazine, in the January 1991 issue. The main advantage of the Jenter queen is that the novice can avoid grafting larvae. Anyone raising more than one or two hundred queens each season will probably want to learn to graft, but the Jenter kit can make novice beekeepers into successful queen-producers in a quick step. I think it's good for that purpose. -John in Dallas (e-mail me with your snail-mail address if you want a copy of the Bee Culture article) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 04:52:44 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Keith G. Benson" Subject: Re: Jentner System > > -John in Dallas (e-mail me with your snail-mail address if you want a copy >of the Bee Culture article) > Thank you kindly for the reprint! My snail-mail address is: Keith Benson 4539 Stein Ave Madison, WI 53714 Thanks again, I look forward to reading it. Keith ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 09:17:54 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Jentner System > Hello, > > Would anyone know if there is a book descibing Quenn Rearing with > the Jentner (sp.?) System? Also does anyone have any strong > feelings one way or another about the system itself or it potential > use by a novice at queen rearing? Any good book on queen rearing will provide the understanding of the basic principles of queen rearing. They are the same regardless of what method you use to transfer larvae. It is very important to understand *all* the principles if you expect to get queens at all, let alone good ones. My wife had trouble getting the system to work consistently, although she has had no difficulty producing thousands of excellent cells and queens by grafting. I couldn't understand it, so tried myself and found that it was difficult to use compared to just selecting a frame with young larvae and grafting. For one thing, we had trouble getting the queen to lay in it (maybe it was just a poor day), and didn't stick to it. (There are days when queens just don't lay - we had an expensive marked breeder that just stopped laying for a week or two when all the others were laying fine - as Pooh says:"You just can't tell about bees". - Then she started up again.) Having said that, I know people who swear by it and wouldn't be without it. I don't really know why it didn't work well for us except that we already knew much simpler and easier methods of doing the job. Normal grafting is not hard at all if you take an hour or two to learn. However the system of plugs might be good if your vision is bad and your fingers very stiff. If you want to learn to graft, your local bee club or government bee people may well offer courses where you can learn the subtle little things that make the job go better. Or you can learn from a book. Good luck Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 21:40:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Races? In-Reply-To: <199601111409.JAA27982@segwun.muskoka.net> On Thu, 11 Jan 1996, David Eyre wrote: > Dave Cawley and Tom Sandford both wrote in answer > > > There was a good article in BEE CULTURE a year and a half ago on > >the different races and their habits and personalities. It even had some > >nice color photos as well. > > Please, I would request we refrain from indicating articles for us to read. > It is extremely difficult to refer to articles in magazines that we don't > all subscribe to. This is not a critism or a slight on any magazine, more an > observation on the volume of magazines available worldwide for beekeepers. > Under the circumstances I would suggest a small precis of the article posted > on the Net would be far more valuable. I was merely point to a readily available resource that coud be ordered from the publisher. I didn't have the issue handy and thought that if the person wanted to take the initiative and contact the publisher, they'd have a nice article at their finger tips. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, University Of Scranton | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | reaction is the alternative. ddc1@SCRANTON | -Daniel De Leon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 22:06:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Verville Subject: Rogers Replacement Comments: To: att!BEE-L@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU At our monthly bee meeting, some one asked who was going to take over at Cornell University for Roger Morse now that he is retiring, (Sort of) *-------------------------------------* | Dave Verville att!mvtowers!mvdfv | | Essex County Beekeepers Association | | Vice President Topsfield, MA USA | *-------------------------------------* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 23:15:23 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Maynard R. Thompson" Subject: WARMING HONEY. I tried something different to warm honey that has become crystalized to some extent. Allowing for various preferences and those who would not have honey heated....this is for those who will. I had put up some honey in squeeze bear containers. I myself do not like to heat honey< nor >do I like to waste it in the bottoms of squeeze bears. This is for the hobby beekeeper. I used a large thermo-electric Warmer/Cooler..the type you can plug in your vehicle. The unit maintains a temp of approx 135-140F in the warming mode. I have held honey in the unit for about 6 hours and then allow to cool at room temp. You can purchase a power converter to operate this appliance with house current. Simular devices must be available in other countries. The device that I used was a Coleman unit and it will hold eighteen 24oz. bears. Any ideas as to how long honey can be held at 140F without severe deterioration in flavor? I noticed little change in flavor of the honey. Mine still tastes better that a great deal of it off the store shelf. IMHO... Regards, Maynard. mthompso@MAIL.coin.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 15:46:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Rogers Replacement In-Reply-To: <9601140306.AA04883@ig2.att.att.com> On Sat, 13 Jan 1996, Dave Verville wrote: > At our monthly bee meeting, some one asked who was > going to take over at Cornell University for Roger Morse now that > he is retiring, (Sort of) > *-------------------------------------* > | Dave Verville att!mvtowers!mvdfv | > | Essex County Beekeepers Association | > | Vice President Topsfield, MA USA | > *-------------------------------------* Rodgers replacement is Dr. Nick Calderone from Beltsville.> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x x x Vince & Carole Coppola vcoppola@epix.net x x Coppola Apiaries, (716)965-2904 x x 10220 Bradigan Rd. x x Forestville, N.Y. 14062 x x x x Western New York Beekeepers Association x x x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 19:27:59 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: krengel lawrence e Subject: Re: WARMING HONEY. In-Reply-To: I regularly heat my crystalized honey and notice no change in the flavor. I am though cautious to heat only to about 145 degrees F. When I first did this using a double boiler, it was hard to maintain the temperature. I found the solution at a farm auction. I bought a old thermostatically controlled deep frier. It does an excellent - and inexpensive - job. Once set, the thermostat warms to 145 and holds it until all crystals are gone. I can do about a half dozen one pound bottles at a time... The water (which I use instead of the oil the frier used to use) acts as a buffer just as the double boiler would. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 21:50:53 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: krengel lawrence e Subject: Beekeeping Symposium Second Midwest Beekeeping Symposium March 9, 1996 McHenry County College, Crystal Lake, IL (located 50 miles northwest of Chicago and 90 miles southwest of Milwaukee) Time: 9:00am - 4:00pm Keynote presentation: Dr. Keith Delaplane, University of Georgia entomologist and host of the PBS series - Honey Bees and Beekeeping: a year in the life of an apiary - will discuss the Integrated Control of Honey Bee Parasites. Also presenting will be Kim Flottum who will address Honey Bees as America's Number One Pollinator. Kim is the Editor of Bee Culture and President of the Ohio Beekeeping Association. Also among the dozen of sessions will be the topics of bee venom therapy, techinques for winning honey competitions, use of extender patties, managing and constructing observation hives, wintering bees, and a special session for the beginning beekeeper. Commercial displays and the National Honey Queen will be on hand and the day will end with a "cracker barrel" social hour for the presenters and participants to relax over a cup of coffee. Registration fee: $20.00 ($7.00 for attitional family members) Registration includes the noon meal in the college cafeteria. For further information contact: Molly Walsh McHenry County College 8900 U. S. Route 14 Crystal Lake, IL 60012 815-455-8697 The Symposium is presented by the Northern Illinois Beekeepers Association and McHenry County College. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 22:25:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Hardy Organization: Di's Online Cafe Subject: bee story Several people asked me to post the newspaper story I wrote, after I had posted a question on this listserv. It's probably old news to all of you, but my aim was to educate the general public. Here it is. Copyright 1996, Mobile Press Register. Invaders too small to see ravaging bee population Experts say spread of mites will lead to higher food prices By MICHAEL HARDY Staff Reporter Where have all the bees gone? When did you last see wild bees crawling over clover blossoms? It's probably been a while, because bees have been disappearing. Their decline comes courtesy of two almost microscopic invaders: varroa mites and tracheal mites. The pests, native to South America, showed up in the United States roughly 10 years ago and have been quietly spreading ever since. Beekeepers and scientists are worried that soon the native bee populations will be gone altogether. ``It's going to touch everybody's table,'' said Marge Smith, a beekeeper in Chunchula. The wild bees pollenate crops. Without them, farmers will have to keep bees, too, or have bees brought in, raising the cost of growing food. The Alabama Cooperative Extension System has contracted Dr. James Tew of Ohio State University to help create an educational program, said Mobile County extension agent Tony Glover. Tew holds a Ph.D. in apiculture, the study of bees. He was not available for comment. The system has contracted Tew for one year to conduct workshops and prepare written materials educating beekeepers about the mites and how to control them, as well as other beekeeping principles, Glover said. Unlike many states, Alabama has no state apiculturist. But no matter how well-educated the keepers, the mites are here to stay, Glover said. While beekeepers can use chemicals to treat their beehives, wild bees are unprotected. ``It's a tremendous problem,'' he said. ``It's continually getting worse. The bee population in the wild, as well as managed hives, is decreasing. I don't think it's bottomed out yet, especially in the wild.'' Even with treatments, Andy Webb said he has lost about half of his bees over the past five years. Webb runs the Calvert Apiary near the Washington County line. He supplies bees to beekeepers around the country. He's also seen his customer base change. Many hobbyist beekeepers are dropping out, because the cost and work involved in maintaining a hive has become too much to squeeze into free time. ``Bees used to be self-sustaining,'' he said. ``You could just put them in the hive. Now it takes a great deal of management because of the mites.'' Some new beekeepers are more successful than veterans, because they start off having to fight the mites, he said. They have no old ways to unlearn. Commercial beekeepers are hanging tough, inspired by a rise in the price of honey, Webb said. That came about in 1994, after trade groups sued the Federal Trade Commission to stop the inflow of Chinese honey into American markets. ``That was kind of a shot in the arm,'' Webb said. Varroa mites suck the life out of bee larvae, Webb said. They attach themselves to adult bees, but the adults are primarily carriers. The larvae provide food for the parasitic mite. Tracheal mites reproduce in the bee's trachea. If they're small enough, they can cause infections. If they're bigger, they suffocate the bee. Beekeepers use a chemical called apistan to kill varroa, and menthol to get rid of the tracheal mites, Glover said. The pesticides control the mites, but they don't completely eradicate them from the hive, Glover said. ``If you were to kill every varroa mite in the hive, the bees would die first from the level of treatment you'd need.'' What worries Glover the most is, apistan and menthol are the only weapons the beekeepers have. And eventually, the mites will become resistant to them. Harsher chemicals are not an option, because they would kill the bees along with the mites, Glover said. They would also contaminate the honey. Just exactly how much the native bee population has declined is uncertain. Glover said reliable data on the number of bees that used to be present is hard to find. But there's no doubt there aren't many now. ``I'll go out and do informal counts, and there's no bees out there, maybe one in 1,000 blooms,'' he said. ``And that's at a time when they should be humming, early morning and blooms all over.'' The mites are spreading like fire ants, Glover said -- slowly, but inexorably. ``We're continually seeing new areas affected that weren't affected before,'' he said. Adrian Wenner, professor emeritus of natural history at the University of California in Santa Barbara, monitors an Internet electronic mailing list dedicated to bee enthusiasts. In response to a reporter's question posted on that mailing list, Wenner said that historical in@@hyphen@@formation about bee numbers is hard to find for any area of the country. ``On the e-mail network, though, the plaintive `Where have all the bees gone' (messages) came from all regions of the country,'' he wrote. ``Suddenly, growers and backyard gardeners realized that they no longer had honeybees pollenating their fruit.'' The decline of bees will affect more than the price of honey. Bees are vital to the pollenization of fruit trees, melons and many other crops. As the wild bees disappear, beekeepers will find another source of income in making their bees available for pollenization. That's already a widespread practice, and due only to expand. ``Everybody has been used to free bees, but they're just not there anymore,'' Webb said. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 22:13:06 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Subject: Re: WARMING HONEY. >I regularly heat my crystalized honey and notice no change in the >flavor. I am though cautious to heat only to about 145 degrees F. When >I first did this using a double boiler, it was hard to maintain the >temperature. I found the solution at a farm auction. I bought a old >thermostatically controlled deep frier. It does an excellent - and >inexpensive - job. Once set, the thermostat warms to 145 and holds it >until all crystals are gone. I can do about a half dozen one pound >bottles at a time... The water (which I use instead of the oil the frier >used to use) acts as a buffer just as the double boiler would. > >Larry Krengel >Marengo, IL USA 145 degrees will seriously damage your honey. Anything above 110 will destroy the enzymes which are in the honey and which give fresh honey its special flavors and odors. Do a taste test on before and after samples You can liquefy your honey by setting your melter to 100 degrees F and leaving it for 24 hours. Experiment with the temp and the time. The lower the temp the longer it will take. I would recommend the lowest temp to liquefy the honey in 24 hours. I have a waterbed heater in an old chest freezer connected to a Walter Kelley temperature switch. With the switch set to 95 degrees F most any honey liquefies in 24 hours. 60's take about 2 days. Mark Jensen-Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com Los Altos Hills, CA, USA fax 415 941 3488 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:20:52 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Patch Byrne Subject: West African bees In-Reply-To: <9512181338.AA25868@us5rmc.imc.das.dec.com> To all Bee people around the world . . . . if you have read this already sorry! I am a third year biology student at Royal Holloway University of > London. Last summer I was working at the International Institute for > Tropical Ariculture (IITA), Biological Control Centre for Africa, Cotonou, > Benin, West Africa. > > My project at IITA was to test the entomopathogen METARHIZIUM FLAVOVIRIDE for > detrimental effects on APIS MELLIFERA ADANSONII. It is hoped that the fungus > will soon be used as a biocontrol agent against locusts and grasshoppers. > > Information on the West African honey bee I worked with appears to be scarce, as seems to be information on bees suseptability to entomopathogens. Any > information you can forward me through E-mail/post would be much appreciated. > Once my project has been written up I would be glad to forward you a copy. > > Thank you in advance > > \|/ @ @ Patrick Byrne ----------oOO-(_)-OOo--------------------------------------------- | Email: snail | | P.byrne@rhbnc.ac.uk | mail :61, Bond Street | | | Englefield Green | | | Surrey. TW20 OPL | | tel: 01784 434955 | England. | | | | | | | ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:43:17 +0100 Reply-To: Michael Haberl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Haberl Subject: IMHO Every now and then some of you use the abreviation *IMHO*, e.g. > To quote chapter, verse,and author before the precis does not IMHO make the > article less valuable Could someone please explain. Thanks. ____________________________________________________________________ Michael Haberl Zoologisches Institut der Uni Muenchen Tel: ++49 89 5902-444 Luisenstr. 14 Fax: ++49 89 5902-450 80333 Muenchen, Germany E-mail: haberl@zi.biologie.uni-muenchen.de ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 09:11:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: JENTER QUEEN SYSTEM "Practical Queen Rearing," book by Charles/Pauline Dublon (Welsh couple), includes an in-depth discussion of the SUBJECT line. Brushy Mountain Bee supplies in Moravian Falls NC usa (1-800-BEESWAX) was selling it in 1994 for $17.45 plus 2# shipping (send 4 their free catalog?). Bonne chance. Jack the B-man Ellicott City MD usa PS "It's a pleasure to give advice, humiliating to need it, and perfectly normal to ignore it." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 14:24:29 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: Races? Regarding libraries, you don't have to have access to a university library to get copies of papers, etc. The following, from IBRA's www pages (http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/index.html) says it all. _________________________________________________________________ The library at IBRA's headquarters in Cardiff holds a wealth of information on bee related subjects unequalled elsewhere in the world, and it is continually being added to with contributions from many countries. People from all over the world can use the library, though our information search and document delivery services. We can use our computer databases to answer your queries, prepare specific bibliographies or carry out subject searches. Members of IBRA have special privileges: they can borrow books by post, use the library in person, and receive a 50% discount on all library charges. _________________________________________________________________ -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 14:57:37 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Malcolm Roe Subject: Re: WARMING HONEY. In-Reply-To: <9601150505.AA03052@crosfield.co.uk> from "Automatic digest processor" at Jan 15, 96 00:00:07 am In the UK many small scale and hobby beekeepers keep honey in bulk containers and re-melt it before putting it in jars to sell. Often they use 28lb containers. (I use 5 litre second hand food containers which hold 16lb.) The usual method of re-melting is to use a warming cabinet, which is an insulated box with a door, a lightbulb at the bottom and a grill above for the container to stand on. Normally the honey is left in for about 24 hours. A certain amount of experimenting is needed to get the right power level to raise the honey to the correct temperature but no higher. You don't really need a thermostat since, ignoring changes in ambient temperature, the loss of heat through the walls of the cabinet is constant once equilibrium has been reached. Typically 60 to 100W is about right. A particularly economical method of making a cabinet is to use an old refrigerator with the pipework and compressor removed although American refrigerators in particular may be a bit large for many people. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:46:55 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: WARMING HONEY. In-Reply-To: ; from "krengel lawrence e" at Jan 14, 96 7:27 pm The lowest temperature setting on my wife's crock-pot cooker happens to result in a temperature of 140 degrees. I store my honey in one-gallon glass jars which just fit the crock-pot with room for a water bath around them. Liquifies in 3-4 hours. OK for my own use, but not large-scale. Fred According to krengel lawrence e: > > I regularly heat my crystalized honey and notice no change in the > flavor. I am though cautious to heat only to about 145 degrees F. When > I first did this using a double boiler, it was hard to maintain the > temperature. I found the solution at a farm auction. I bought a old > thermostatically controlled deep frier. It does an excellent - and > inexpensive - job. Once set, the thermostat warms to 145 and holds it > until all crystals are gone. I can do about a half dozen one pound > bottles at a time... The water (which I use instead of the oil the frier > used to use) acts as a buffer just as the double boiler would. > > Larry Krengel > Marengo, IL USA > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 08:01:55 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ken Umbach (kumbach@library.ca.gov)" Subject: Re: IMHO Comments: To: Michael Haberl In-Reply-To: <9601151243.AA33370@wap18.zi.biologie.uni-muenchen.de> IMHO = "In my humble opinion." On Mon, 15 Jan 1996, Michael Haberl wrote: > Every now and then some of you use the abreviation *IMHO*, e.g. > > Could someone please explain. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:23:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "J. David Riddle" Subject: Warming honey I've been reading alot about techniques for warming honey after it has crystalized, but I have a couple of background questions. First, what are the factors that contribute to the crystalization of honey? Can these be manipulated or managed to increase the shelf life of honey? Finally, how long can you expect the honey to remain uncrystalized after heating it? Does the heating process cause the crystalization process to begin sooner the next time? J. David Riddle Newburyport, MA dmaster@tiac.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 12:14:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Races? David Eyre wrote. >> Under the circumstances I would suggest a small precis of the article posted >> on the Net would be far more valuable. David Cawley wrote > I was merely point to a readily available resource that coud be >ordered from the publisher. I didn't have the issue handy and thought >that if the person wanted to take the initiative and contact the >publisher, they'd have a nice article at their finger tips. Boy....I sure stirred up a hornets nest!!! I will try again... We tend to forget.. some of us don't live in the US, some of us don't have access to the University library. There is no point in telling us to look up an article in a magazine which we don't subscribe to. No... I can't afford to subscribe to all the mags. So.. I repeat, a brief precis giving the authors view would be benifcial to all. I'm sure the author, provided the contents, contax, etc are not changed, wouldn't mind. Especially if it is of benifit to all. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:25:07 +0000 Reply-To: P.Wright@ed.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Wright Subject: Pashke's Building Frame I wonder if anyone is familiar with the construction of the above device? In german it is called "Baurahmen" and enables the beekeeper to see activity on the comb without opening the hive. According to H.Storch in his book "At the Hive Entrance" it is widely used in Germany, but unfortunately the only description he provides is, " the glass pane of the window is arranged facing towards the inside of the hive (in Winter) and the free space filled with corrugated paper for insulation. ...In the summer, the building frame is positioned with a starter strip of foundation, and then the window galss outside>" I cannot envisage how this is constructed as to simply replace the side of an existing super with glass will be of no use to observe activity in the winter time. Peter Wright ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:42:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Pashke's Building Frame I have seen this idea illustrated and described in German beekeeping manuals. It is a narrow chamber across the front of a hive body and it holds one frame. Imagine you're looking at a standard hive body, head on. The idea would be like a double wall on the end of the hive body facing you. There is a space between the two walls into which you can slide a frame. This frame would be positioned "sideways" to the regular set of combs in the hive body, and separated from them by the "inner" wall. I suppose this inner wall has some set of holes or something so the bees have easy access to the "building frame." The outer wall facing you would have a pane of glass with a removable cover. Then to estimate the progress of the colony you just take off the glass-covering panel and you can look in to see what the bees are up to on the face of the comb. This gives you a relative idea of what's going on in the main set(s) of combs. It makes for a longer hive front - to - back. I have never seen the idea developed in US/UK books. I hope this is helpful. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 23:21:12 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Races I have been following the letters on race and which bee is best with interest. I would suppose that in countries as large as the U.S. and Canada beekeepers are widely spaced. Thus most matings would be with drones from one's own apiary and would be pure most of the time. In my part of the U.K. almost every beekeeper has another one within easy flying range. In my case I have four others within a mile of my apiary so any attempt to maintain a pure strain would be doomed to failure. I have long since decided that for me race is unimportant. Starting from scratch it took me some five years of careful selection and culling to end up with docile, non-swarming bees which wintered well and produced honey. That was a long time ago and it is a continuous process of selection. Any stock attempting to swarm is artificially swarmed and ruled out of the breeding programme however good it is. Any stock showing undue defence mechanism is immediately sorted out and requeened. Bees which resent handling have no place where there are neighbours. After sixty years of beekeeping I have yet to buy in a single queen. I would advise any beginner not to worry overmuch about race. Beekeepers have been arguing for more than a hundred years about the relative merits of the different races and there is still no agreement. Had there been one superior bee it would have emerged long ago. It is interesting to note that instrumental insemination has been practised world wide for forty years but the everyday beekeeper still has to raise his queens in the age old way. Unless you buy in pure queens every year or live in an oasis you will end up with hybrids. Virgins from your queens will mate with six or more drones a mile or more from your apiary. IMHO a carefully selected hybrid will perform as well as any pure bred. To start a breeding programme you need five to ten stocks to give a reasonable range to select from. If you have just one or two and they are bad-tempered or swarmy you have nothing to start with and they must be re-queened from outside. Varroa arrived in my apiary in 1994 and started causing damage in 1995. Testing with Apistan I have already found a wide range of mite infestation so there is now another stage in the selection process in the hopes that I might find some of my bees more resistant than others. Another five year programme? _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:00:36 -1000 Reply-To: "Thomas W. Culliney -- Dept. of Agriculture" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- Dept. of Agriculture" Subject: Re: bee story In-Reply-To: <96011423371548428@dibbs.com> Michael Hardy's newspaper piece on declines in feral honey bee populations with the advent of tracheal and varroa mites contains one major error. There is no indication that the two mites are native to South America, as Hardy reports. Varroa is native to subtropical and tropical Asia where its original host was the eastern honey bee, Apis cerana; problems with tracheal mite first were reported from the Isle of Wight in England, indicating that this species may be native to Europe. With regard to another statement made in the article, apiculture refers more to the practice of beekeeping than to the study of bees. The term "mellitology" occasionally has been applied to the study of bees. Tom Culliney culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:45:46 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: krengel lawrence e Subject: Re: WARMING HONEY. In-Reply-To: On Sun, 14 Jan 1996, Mark Jensen wrote: > >I regularly heat my crystalized honey and notice no change in the > >flavor. I am though cautious to heat only to about 145 degrees F. When > >I first did this using a double boiler, it was hard to maintain the > >temperature. I found the solution at a farm auction. I bought a old > >thermostatically controlled deep frier. It does an excellent - and > >inexpensive - job. Once set, the thermostat warms to 145 and holds it > >until all crystals are gone. I can do about a half dozen one pound > >bottles at a time... The water (which I use instead of the oil the frier > >used to use) acts as a buffer just as the double boiler would. > > > >Larry Krengel > >Marengo, IL USA > > 145 degrees will seriously damage your honey. Anything above 110 will > destroy the enzymes which are in the honey and which give fresh honey its > special flavors and odors. Do a taste test on before and after samples You > can liquefy your honey by setting your melter to 100 degrees F and leaving > it for 24 hours. Experiment with the temp and the time. The lower the temp > the longer it will take. I would recommend the lowest temp to liquefy the > honey in 24 hours. I have a waterbed heater in an old chest freezer > connected to a Walter Kelley temperature switch. With the switch set to 95 > degrees F most any honey liquefies in 24 hours. 60's take about 2 days. > > Mark Jensen-Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com > Los Altos Hills, CA, USA fax 415 941 3488 > Mark - Your thoughts are interesting. Do you have any cites from research about the enzymes being destroyed at 100+? I would enjoy reading it. I find that the local commercial (I am definately not commercial) beekeeper also heats his to 140ish... however, he uses a flash heater. I intend to try you 100 degrees for 24 hours. Larry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:49:20 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: molds for candles A friend asks me where he can buy molds for candles. I have seen beautiful ones at the last Apimondia exhibition but I did not note the names and addresses of the suppliers. Can anybody help my friend with that? Jean-Pierre Chapleau eleveur de reines / queen breeder vice-president du Conseil canadien du miel / Vice-president of the Canadian Honey Council 1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien de Ham, Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 tel./phone (819) 828-3396; fax (819) 828-0357 chapleau@praline.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:12:43 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Where angels fear to tread > some of us don't > have access to the University library. There is no point in telling > us to look up an article in a magazine which we don't subscribe to. > No... I can't afford to subscribe to all the mags. Anybody on good terms with even two or three people in the bee business in most countries - and more than a very casual interest - can get his or her hands on almost any recent (and many not so recent) copies of Bee Culture or ABJ. These are, I believe, the esoteric and very rare publications about which this matter began. Although may not be in many University libraries, they are likely in a nearby beekeeper's bookshelf. > So.. I repeat, a > brief precis giving the authors view would be benifcial to all. I'm > sure the author, provided the contents, contax, etc are not changed, > wouldn't mind. Well, what I think people are (too politely, perhaps) trying to hint is that they *do* mind having someone demand they precis an article of little interest to them for someone who is unwilling to get up and get it for himself. And if the author him/herself is being addressed, I am sure that it is a little insulting to be asked to give the whole carefully prepared piece in a few words. Most here believe they are subscribed to a *bee* list for discussing matters relating to bees, not the basic and well established methods of researching and studying. I am sure if *anyone* is having genuine dificulty obtaining important info, or if material is at all hard to obtain, the list will bend over backwards to assist. On numerous occasions the scientists and extension people here have mailed me very helpful information. People will give as much or as little info as they wish - Many very knowledgeable people sit and read and never post at all - we're privileged if they do. Let's bee content with taking what is offered freely and not begin to demand that others serve us only according to our own tastes. And let us get back to bees... OK?? --------------------------------------------------- "Fearing not that I'd become my enemy - in the instant that I speak" Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 11:44:24 +0100 Reply-To: Michael Haberl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Haberl Subject: Re: Pashke's Building Frame > I wonder if anyone is familiar with the construction of the above > device? I am not familiar with the Pashke type of building frame, but with Building frames in general. They were widely used in former times in the typical "Bienenhaus" (*bee house*) hives. There are very many different types. In most hives the frames are positioned parallel to the hive entrance. In the hive types I know you have just one comb at the back of the hive (facing inner side of the bee house) parallel to it. A glass frame closes the hive, followed by insulation and a wooden lid. The arrangement is the same in summer and in winter. The colonies are managed from the back. The idea is to decrease or increase the hive space in units of one frame in order to give the optimal space at every point of time. > I cannot envisage how this is constructed as to simply replace the side > of an existing super with glass will be of no use to observe activity in > the winter time. No, you can not. The bee cluster will not be at the very back in winter. But you may see some condensed water at the glass indicating that the bees are breeding (*NOT* a very strong indicater). IMHO - ;) - a Building Frame is an interesting and valuable tool for beginners, but as you get more experienced it gives you no additional information about the condition of the colony. ____________________________________________________________________ Michael Haberl Zoologisches Institut der Uni Muenchen Tel: ++49 89 5902-444 Luisenstr. 14 Fax: ++49 89 5902-450 80333 Muenchen, Germany E-mail: haberl@zi.biologie.uni-muenchen.de ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:51:01 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: F Hogenboom Subject: HEATING OR CRYSTALIZED hi, Two important compounds of honey are glucose and fructose. The quantity of both depends on the source of honey. The glucose-percentage is responsible for the rate of crystalization. Examples: Oil-seed rape honey (41% glusose) crystalized in a few days; Acacia-honey (26% glucose) remains for several years uncrystalized. It's all in the game! In my experience, honey after being heated to decrystalize, more rapidly goes into the crystalized phase. Heating of honey is not only bad for its flavor. The enzymes like diastase and invertase can disappear above 50 degr. celcius. Furthermore heating causes an increase of Hydroxy-Methyl-Furfural, which is poisonous for honeybees (but less for human). It is not a wise idea to give your heated honey to your bees. Regards ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 08:31:10 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lilian Espinal Subject: Re: Solicitu de articulos In-Reply-To: On Wed, 22 Nov 1995, Lilian Espinal wrote: > > > On Wed, 22 Nov 1995, Lilian Espinal wrote: > > > > > Quisiera ver si me pueden auxiliar con el envio de los siguientes > > articulos, en caso de ser un costo alto, favor de enviar cotizacion para > > posteriormente enviar el rembolso del mismo. > > > > Atemtamente. > > > > Lilian Espinal Meneses. > Por error omiti dar mis datos. > Unidad de Informacion Cientifica y Biblioteca > Jorge Leon Dousset > Km 15.5 Carretera Merida Xmatkuil > A.P 4-116D Itzimna > C.P 97166 > Merida Yucatan Mexico. > telefono y fax 99-23-40-09 > email: veterina@tunku.uady.mx > espinal@servidor.dgsca.unam.mx > > > > > > > > > TI: Characterization of honeys from stingless bees produced in Venezuela. > > OT: Caracterizacion de mieles de abejas sin aguijon producidad en Venezuela. > > AU: Vit-Olivier-P > > AD: Departamento Ciencia de los Alimentos, Universidad de Los Andes, Merida, Venezuela. > > SO: 1992, vi + 125 pp.; Bdo. > > PB: Universidad de Los Andes, Merida; Venezuela > > PY: 1992 > > LA: Spanish > > LS: English > > > > > > TI: Honey production in stingless bees: differences in flight activity and foraging between Melipona and Tetragonisca. > > AU: Bruijn-LLM-de; Sommeijer-MJ; Biesmeijer-JC; Nieuwstadt-MJ-van; Kraaykamp-H > > AD: Bee Research Department, Utrecht University, PO Box 80 086, 3508 TB Utrecht, Netherlands. > > SO: Proceedings of the Fifth International Conference on Apiculture in Tropical Climates, Trinidad and Tobago, 7-12 September 1992. Proceedings-of-the-Fifth-International-Conference-on-Apiculture-in-Tropical-Climates,-Trinidad-and-Tobago,-7-12-Septemb er-1 > > 992. 1994, 221-226; Bdo. > > PB: International Bee Research Association; Cardiff; UK > > PY: 1994 > > LA: English > > > > TI: Beekeeping with Melipona trinitatis and M. favosa in Trinidad. > > AU: Hallim-MK; Sommeijer-MJ > > AD: Ministry of Agriculture, Land and Marine Resources, St. Clair Circle, Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago, West Indies. > > SO: Proceedings of the Fifth International Conference on Apiculture in Tropical Climates, Trinidad and Tobago, 7-12 September 1992. Proceedings-of-the-Fifth-International-Conference-on-Apiculture-in-Tropical-Climates,-Trinidad-and-Tobago,-7-12-Septemb er-1 > > 992. 1994, 227-229; Bdo. > > PB: International Bee Research Association; Cardiff; UK > > PY: 1994 > > LA: English > > > > TI: Acceptance of virgin queens and nuptial flight in Melipona beecheii (Hymenoptera: Apidae: Meliponinae). > > AU: Veen-JW-van; Sommeijer-MJ; Arce-HGA; Aarts-T > > AD: Department of Social Insects, Laboratory of Comparative Physiology, Utrecht University, PO Box 80086, 3508 TB Utrecht, Netherlands. > > SO: Proceedings of the Fifth International Conference on Apiculture in Tropical Climates, Trinidad and Tobago, 7-12 September 1992. Proceedings-of-the-Fifth-International-Conference-on-Apiculture-in-Tropical-Climates,-Trinidad-and-Tobago,-7-12-Septemb er-1 > > 992. 1994, 249-253; Bdo. > > PB: International Bee Research Association; Cardiff; UK > > PY: 1994 > > LA: English > > > > > > TI: Beekeeping with stingless bees (Hymenoptera: Apidae: Meliponinae) in Costa Rica. > > AU: Arce-HGA; Veen-JW-van; Sommeijer-MJ > > AD: Proyecto Apicultura, Universidad Nacional, Heredia, Costa Rica. > > SO: Proceedings of the Fifth International Conference on Apiculture in Tropical Climates, Trinidad and Tobago, 7-12 September 1992. Proceedings-of-the-Fifth-International-Conference-on-Apiculture-in-Tropical-Climates,-Trinidad-and-Tobago,-7-12-Septemb er-1 > > 992. 1994, 209-213; Bdo. > > PB: International Bee Research Association; Cardiff; UK > > PY: 1994 > > LA: English > > > > > > TI: The importance of stingless bees to man in the past. > > AU: Crane-E > > AD: Woodside House, Woodside Hill, Gerrards Cross, SL9 9TE, UK. > > SO: Proceedings of the Fifth International Conference on Apiculture in Tropical Climates, Trinidad and Tobago, 7-12 September 1992. Proceedings-of-the-Fifth-International-Conference-on-Apiculture-in-Tropical-Climates,-Trinidad-and-Tobago,-7-12-Septemb er-1 > > 992. 1994, 259-264; Bdo. > > PB: International Bee Research Association; Cardiff; UK > > PY: 1994 > > LA: English > > > > > > TI: New techniques for breeding meliponins. > > OT: Novas tecnicas para criar meliponineos (Hymenoptera, Apidae, Meliponinae). > > AU: Nogueira-Neto-P > > AD: Departamento de Ecologia Geral, Instituto de Biociencias, Universidade de Sao Paulo, Sao Paulo, Brazil. > > SO: Publicacoes-Tecnapis-sobre-Ecologia-e-Etologia. 1993, No. 5, 16 pp.; Bd. > > PY: 1993 > > LA: Portuguese > > LS: English > > > > TI: Xunan kab [Melipona beechei]: an ethnoecological experience and transference of traditional technology in a Mayan community in Yucatan, Mexico. > > OT: Xunan kab: una experiencia etnoecologica y transferencia de tecnologia tradicional en una comunidad Maya de Yucatan, Mexico. > > AU: Morales-SM; Bojorquez-MMC > > SO: Experiencias-en-Desarrollo-Sostenible. 1992, No. 7, viii + 75 pp.; Bdo. > > PB: Sostenibilidad Maya; Merida; Mexico > > PY: 1992 > > LA: Spanish > > > > TI: Stingless beekeeping in Venezuela. > > OT: Los meliponicultores venezolanos. > > AU: Vit-Olivier-P > > AD: Departamento de Ciencia de los Alimentos, Facultad de Farmacia, Universidad de Los Andes, Merida, Venezuela. > > SO: Vida-Apicola. 1994, No. 64, 26-33; Bj. > > PY: 1994 > > LA: Spanish > > > > > > TI: Creole stingless bees (Part 1). > > OT: Las abejas criollas sin aguijon (1). > > AU: Vit-Olivier-P > > AD: Departamento de Ciencia de los Alimentos, Facultad de Farmacia, Universidad de Los Andes, Merida, Venezuela. > > SO: Vida-Apicola. 1994, No. 63, 34-35, 37, 39, 41-42; Bj. > > PY: 1994 > > LA: Spanish > > > > > > TI: Highly social bees (Apidae) of a restricted area in Curitiba (Brazil): distribution of nests and relative abundance. > > OT: Abelhas altamente sociais (Apidae) de uma area restrita em Curitiba (Brasil):distribuicao dos ninhos e abundancia relativa. > > AU: Taura-HM; Laroca-S > > AD: Ciencias Biologicas (Entomologia), UFPR, Caixa Postal 19.020, 81.531 Curitiba, PR, Brazil. > > SO: Acta-Biologica-Paranaense. 1991, 20: 1-4, 85-101; Ba. > > PY: 1991 > > LA: Portuguese > > LS: English > > > > > > TI: Composition of Venezuelan honeys from stingless bees (Apidae: Meliponinae) and Apis mellifera L. > > AU: Vit-P; Bogdanov-S; Kilchenmann-V > > AD: Dept. Ciencia de los Alimentos, Facultad de Farmacia, Universidad de Los Andes, Merida, Venezuela. > > SO: Apidologie. 1994, 25: 3, 278-288; Bj. > > PY: 1994 > > LA: English > > LS: French, German > > > > TI: Caste determination in bees of the subfamily Meliponinae. > > OT: Determinacao das castas em abelhas da subfamilia Meliponinae. > > AU: Campos-L > > AD: Departamento de Biologia Geral, Universidade Federal de Vicosa, 36570 Vicosa, MG, Brazil. > > SO: Revista-Brasileira-de-Genetica. 1992, 15: 1, Supplement 1, 261-266; Bj. > > PY: 1992 > > LA: Portuguese > > > > > > TI: Communication in Melipona rufiventris and Melipona compressipes. > > OT: Comunicacao em Melipona rufiventris e Melipona compressipes. > > AU: Kerr,-WE; Rocha,-R > > AD: Dept. Biologia, Univ. Estadual do Maranhao, Caixa Postal 9, 65000 Sao Luis, MA, Brazil. > > SO: Ciencia-e-Cultura. 1988, 40: 12, 1200-1202; Bb. > > PY: 1988 > > LA: Portuguese > > LS: English > > > > > > TI: Floral visits to select crops by four Apis species and Trigona sp. in Thailand. > > AU: Boonithee,-A; Juntawong,-N; Pechhacker,-H; Huttinger,-E > > AD: Kasetsart Univ., Bangkok, Thailand. > > SO: The Sixth International Symposium on Pollination, Tilburg, Netherlands, 27-31 August 1990 [edited by Heemert, C. van; Ruijter, A. de]. 1991, 74-80; Bd. Netherlands; Research Centre for Insect Pollination and Beekeeping and International Society fo r Ho > > rticultural Science. > > PY: 1991 > > LA: English > > > > TI: A trip in Yucatan, Mexico - meliponiculture of the Maya. > > AU: Inoue,-T > > AD: Beekeeping with stingless bees in Mexico is compared with honey and wax hunting and apiculture in Asia and Africa. > > SO: Honeybee-Science. 1990, 11: 2, 49-58; Bj. > > PY: 1990 > > LA: Japanese > > LS: English > > > > TI: The biology and the economic value of the stingless bees, compared to the honeybees. > > AU: Velthuis,-HHW > > SO: Apiacta. 1990, 25: 3, 68-74; Bj. > > PY: 1990 > > LA: English > > > > TI: The honey bee in New Spain and Mexico. > > AU: Brand,-DD > > AD: Dept. Geography, Univ. Texas, Austin, Texas 78712, USA. > > SO: Journal-of-Cultural-Geography. 1988, 9: 1, 71-82; Ba. > > PY: 1988 > > LA: English > > > > TI: Utilization of floral resources by species of Melipona (Apidae, Meliponinae): floral preferences. > > AU: Ramalho,-M; Kleinert-Giovannini,-A; Imperatriz-Fonseca,-VL > > AD: Dept. Ecologia Geral, Inst. Biociencias, Univ. Sao Paulo, Sao Paulo 05508, Brazil. > > SO: Apidologie. 1989, 20: 3, 185-195; Bj. > > PY: 1989 > > LA: English > > LS: French, German > > > > TI: Establishment and propagation of hives of native stingless bees. > > AU: Heard,-T > > AD: Dept. Entomology, Univ. Queensland, St. Lucia, Qd., 4067, Australia. > > SO: Australasian-Beekeeper. 1988, 90: 5, 224-225; Bj. > > PY: 1988 > > LA: English > > > > > > TI: The Meliponinae and the American indians. > > OT: Os meliponineos e os indios americanos. > > AU: Francisco,-ERN; Felice,-A > > AD: Systematics, symbolism in tribal societies, honey wines, the Kayapo and their knowledge of bees. > > SO: Apicultura-no-Brasil. 1988, No. 28; No. 29, 34-35; 24-25; Bj. > > PY: 1988 > > LA: Portuguese > > > > TI: Mesoamerican stingless beekeeping. > > AU: Kent,-RB > > AD: Dept. Geography, Univ. Akron, Akron, OH 44325, USA. > > SO: Journal-of-Cultural-Geography. 1984, 4: 2, 14-28; B. > > PY: 1984 > > LA: English > > > > > > TI: Keeping of stingless bees by the Kayapo Indians of Brazil. > > AU: Posey,-DA > > AD: Dept. Biologia, Univ. Federal Maranhao, 65.000 Sao Luis, Maranhao, Brazil. > > SO: Journal-of-Ethnobiology. 1983, 3: 1, 63-73; B. > > PY: 1983 > > LA: English > > > > > > TI: Folk apiculture of the Kayapo Indians of Brazil. > > AU: Posey,-DA > > AD: Dept. Biologia, Univ. Federal Maranhao, 65.000 Sao Luis, Maranhao, Brazil. > > SO: Biotropica. 1983, 15: 2, 154-158; B. > > PY: 1983 > > LA: English > > > > > > TI: Plant species visited by pollen-collecting Meliponinae in central Amazonas. > > OT: Especies de plantas visitadas por Meliponinae (Hymenoptera; Apoidea), para coleta de polen na regiao do medio Amazonas. > > AU: Absy,-ML; Camargo,-JMF; Kerr,-WE; Miranda,-IP-de-A > > AD: Inst. Nacional de Pesquisas de Amazonia, 69.000 Manaus, Amazonas, Brazil. > > SO: Revista-Brasileira-de-Biologia. 1984, 44: 2, 227-237; B. > > PY: 1984 > > LA: Portuguese > > LS: English > > > > > > TI: Social mechanisms in stingless bees. > > AU: Sommeijer,-MJ > > AD: Lab. Comparative Physiology, State Univ. Utrecht, Jan van Galenstraat 40, 3572 LA Utrecht, Netherlands. > > SO: 1983, v + 147 pp.; B. Proeschrift, State University of Utrecht, Netherlands. > > PY: 1983 > > LA: English > > LS: Dutch > > > > > > TI: Ecological impact of Africanized honeybees on native neotropical pollinators. > > AU: Roubik,-DW > > AD: Smithsonian Tropical Res. Inst., APDO 2072, Balboa, Panama. > > SO: Social insects in the tropics, Vol. 1 [edited by Jaisson, P.]. 1982, 233-247; B. Paris, France; Presses de l'Universite Paris-Nord. > > PY: 1982 > > LA: English > > LS: Spanish > > > > > > TI: Foraging strategies and the structure of stingless bee communities in Costa Rica. > > AU: Johnson,-LK > > AD: Dept. Zoology, Univ. Iowa, Iowa City, IA 52242, USA. > > SO: Social insects in the tropics, Vol. 2 [edited by Jaisson, P.]. 1983, 30-58; B. Paris, France; Presses de l'Universite Paris-Nord. > > PY: 1983 > > LA: English > > LS: Spanish > > > > > > TI: Nest and colony characteristics of stingless bees from Panama (Hymenoptera: Apidae). > > AU: Roubik,-DW > > AD: Smithsonian Tropical Res. Inst., PO Box 2072, Balboa, Panama. > > SO: Journal-of-the-Kansas-Entomological-Society. 1983, 56: 3, 327-355; B. > > PY: 1983 > > LA: English > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 09:29:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 14 Jan 1996 to 15 Jan 1996 > There are 18 messages totalling 621 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. bee story (2) > 2. WARMING HONEY. (4) > 3. West African bees > 4. IMHO (2) > 5. JENTER QUEEN SYSTEM > 6. Races? (2) > 7. Warming honey > 8. Pashke's Building Frame (2) > 9. Races > 10. molds for candles > 11. Where angels fear to tread > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 22:25:00 GMT > From: Michael Hardy > Subject: bee story > > Several people asked me to post the newspaper story I wrote, after I > had posted a question on this listserv. It's probably old news to > all of you, but my aim was to educate the general public. Here it is. > Copyright 1996, Mobile Press Register. > > Invaders too small to see ravaging bee population > > Experts say spread of mites will lead to higher food prices > > By MICHAEL HARDY > Staff Reporter > > Where have all the bees gone? > When did you last see wild bees crawling over clover blossoms? > It's probably been a while, because bees have been disappearing. > Their decline comes courtesy of two almost microscopic invaders: > varroa mites and tracheal mites. The pests, native to South America, > showed up in the United States roughly 10 years ago and have been > quietly spreading ever since. Beekeepers and scientists are worried > that soon the native bee populations will be gone > altogether. > ``It's going to touch everybody's table,'' said Marge Smith, a > beekeeper in Chunchula. The wild bees pollenate crops. Without them, > farmers will have to keep bees, too, or have bees brought in, raising > the cost of growing food. > The Alabama Cooperative Extension System has contracted Dr. James > Tew of Ohio State University to help create an educational > program, said Mobile County extension agent Tony Glover. Tew holds a > Ph.D. in apiculture, the study of bees. He was not available for > comment. > The system has contracted Tew for one year to conduct workshops > and prepare written materials educating beekeepers about > the mites and how to control them, as well as other beekeeping > principles, Glover said. Unlike many states, Alabama has no state > apiculturist. > But no matter how well-educated the keepers, the mites are here to > stay, Glover said. While beekeepers can use chemicals to treat their > beehives, wild bees are unprotected. > ``It's a tremendous problem,'' he said. ``It's continually getting > worse. The bee population in the wild, as well as managed hives, is > decreasing. I don't think it's bottomed out yet, especially in the > wild.'' > Even with treatments, Andy Webb said he has lost about half > of his bees over the past five years. Webb runs the Calvert Apiary > near the Washington County line. He supplies bees to beekeepers > around the country. > He's also seen his customer base change. Many hobbyist beekeepers > are dropping out, because the cost and work involved in > maintaining a hive has become too much to squeeze into free time. > ``Bees used to be self-sustaining,'' he said. ``You could > just put them in the hive. Now it takes a great deal of management > because of the mites.'' > Some new beekeepers are more successful than veterans, because > they start off having to fight the mites, he said. They have no old > ways to unlearn. > Commercial beekeepers are hanging tough, inspired by a rise in the > price of honey, Webb said. That came about in 1994, after trade > groups sued the Federal Trade Commission to stop the inflow of > Chinese honey into American markets. > ``That was kind of a shot in the arm,'' Webb said. > Varroa mites suck the life out of bee larvae, Webb said. They > attach themselves to adult bees, but the adults are primarily > carriers. The larvae provide food for the parasitic mite. > Tracheal mites reproduce in the bee's trachea. If they're small > enough, they can cause infections. If they're bigger, they > suffocate the bee. > Beekeepers use a chemical called apistan to kill varroa, and > menthol to get rid of the tracheal mites, Glover said. > The pesticides control the mites, but they don't completely > eradicate them from the hive, Glover said. ``If you were to kill > every varroa mite in the hive, the bees would die first from the > level of treatment you'd need.'' > What worries Glover the most is, apistan and menthol are the only > weapons the beekeepers have. And eventually, the mites will become > resistant to them. > Harsher chemicals are not an option, because they would kill > the bees along with the mites, Glover said. They would also > contaminate the honey. > Just exactly how much the native bee population has declined is > uncertain. Glover said reliable data on the number of bees > that used to be present is hard to find. > But there's no doubt there aren't many now. ``I'll go out > and do informal counts, and there's no bees out there, maybe one in > 1,000 blooms,'' he said. ``And that's at a time when they should be > humming, early morning and blooms all over.'' > The mites are spreading like fire ants, Glover said -- slowly, but > inexorably. > ``We're continually seeing new areas affected that weren't > affected before,'' he said. > Adrian Wenner, professor emeritus of natural history at the > University of California in Santa Barbara, monitors an Internet > electronic mailing list dedicated to bee enthusiasts. > In response to a reporter's question posted on that mailing list, > Wenner said that historical in@@hyphen@@formation about bee numbers > is hard to find for any area of the country. > ``On the e-mail network, though, the plaintive `Where have all the > bees gone' (messages) came from all regions of the country,'' he > wrote. ``Suddenly, growers and backyard gardeners realized > that they no longer had honeybees pollenating their fruit.'' > The decline of bees will affect more than the price of honey. Bees > are vital to the pollenization of fruit trees, melons and many other > crops. As the wild bees disappear, beekeepers will find another > source of income in making their bees available for pollenization. > That's already a widespread practice, and due only to expand. > ``Everybody has been used to free bees, but they're just not there > anymore,'' Webb said. > > ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 22:13:06 -0800 > From: Mark Jensen > Subject: Re: WARMING HONEY. > > >I regularly heat my crystalized honey and notice no change in the > >flavor. I am though cautious to heat only to about 145 degrees F. When > >I first did this using a double boiler, it was hard to maintain the > >temperature. I found the solution at a farm auction. I bought a old > >thermostatically controlled deep frier. It does an excellent - and > >inexpensive - job. Once set, the thermostat warms to 145 and holds it > >until all crystals are gone. I can do about a half dozen one pound > >bottles at a time... The water (which I use instead of the oil the frier > >used to use) acts as a buffer just as the double boiler would. > > > >Larry Krengel > >Marengo, IL USA > > 145 degrees will seriously damage your honey. Anything above 110 will > destroy the enzymes which are in the honey and which give fresh honey its > special flavors and odors. Do a taste test on before and after samples You > can liquefy your honey by setting your melter to 100 degrees F and leaving > it for 24 hours. Experiment with the temp and the time. The lower the temp > the longer it will take. I would recommend the lowest temp to liquefy the > honey in 24 hours. I have a waterbed heater in an old chest freezer > connected to a Walter Kelley temperature switch. With the switch set to 95 > degrees F most any honey liquefies in 24 hours. 60's take about 2 days. > > Mark Jensen-Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com > Los Altos Hills, CA, USA fax 415 941 3488 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:20:52 +0000 > From: Patch Byrne > Subject: West African bees > > To all Bee people around the world . . . . if you have read this already sorry! > > I am a third year biology student at Royal Holloway University of > > London. Last summer I was working at the International Institute for > > Tropical Ariculture (IITA), Biological Control Centre for Africa, Cotonou, > > Benin, West Africa. > > > > My project at IITA was to test the entomopathogen METARHIZIUM FLAVOVIRIDE for > > detrimental effects on APIS MELLIFERA ADANSONII. It is hoped that the fungus > > will soon be used as a biocontrol agent against locusts and grasshoppers. > > > > Information on the West African honey bee I worked with appears to be scarce, > as seems to be information on bees suseptability to entomopathogens. Any > > information you can forward me through E-mail/post would be much appreciated. > > Once my project has been written up I would be glad to forward you a copy. > > > > Thank you in advance > > > > \|/ > @ @ Patrick Byrne > ----------oOO-(_)-OOo--------------------------------------------- > | Email: snail | > | P.byrne@rhbnc.ac.uk | mail :61, Bond Street | > | | Englefield Green | > | | Surrey. TW20 OPL | > | tel: 01784 434955 | England. | > | | | > | | | > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:43:17 +0100 > From: Michael Haberl > Subject: IMHO > > Every now and then some of you use the abreviation *IMHO*, e.g. > > > To quote chapter, verse,and author before the precis does not IMHO make the > > article less valuable > > Could someone please explain. > Thanks. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Michael Haberl > Zoologisches Institut der Uni Muenchen Tel: ++49 89 5902-444 > Luisenstr. 14 Fax: ++49 89 5902-450 > 80333 Muenchen, Germany E-mail: haberl@zi.biologie.uni-muenchen.de > ____________________________________________________________________ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 09:11:41 -0500 > From: John Iannuzzi > Subject: JENTER QUEEN SYSTEM > > "Practical Queen Rearing," book by Charles/Pauline Dublon (Welsh couple), > includes an > in-depth discussion of the SUBJECT line. Brushy Mountain Bee supplies > in Moravian Falls NC usa (1-800-BEESWAX) was selling it in 1994 for > $17.45 plus 2# shipping (send 4 their free catalog?). Bonne chance. > Jack the B-man > Ellicott City MD usa > PS "It's a pleasure to give advice, > humiliating to need it, > and perfectly normal to ignore it." > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 14:24:29 +0000 > From: Malcolm Roe > Subject: Re: Races? > > Regarding libraries, you don't have to have access to a university > library to get copies of papers, etc. The following, from IBRA's www > pages (http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/index.html) says it all. > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > The library at IBRA's headquarters in Cardiff holds a wealth of > information on bee related subjects unequalled elsewhere in the world, > and it is continually being added to with contributions from many > countries. > > People from all over the world can use the library, though our > information search and document delivery services. We can use our > computer databases to answer your queries, prepare specific > bibliographies or carry out subject searches. > > Members of IBRA have special privileges: they can borrow books by > post, use the library in person, and receive a 50% discount on all > library charges. > > _________________________________________________________________ > > -- > Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 > Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 > Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 14:57:37 +0000 > From: Malcolm Roe > Subject: Re: WARMING HONEY. > > In the UK many small scale and hobby beekeepers keep honey in bulk > containers and re-melt it before putting it in jars to sell. Often they > use 28lb containers. (I use 5 litre second hand food containers which > hold 16lb.) > > The usual method of re-melting is to use a warming cabinet, which is an > insulated box with a door, a lightbulb at the bottom and a grill above > for the container to stand on. Normally the honey is left in for about > 24 hours. A certain amount of experimenting is needed to get the right > power level to raise the honey to the correct temperature but no higher. > You don't really need a thermostat since, ignoring changes in ambient > temperature, the loss of heat through the walls of the cabinet is > constant once equilibrium has been reached. Typically 60 to 100W is > about right. A particularly economical method of making a cabinet is to > use an old refrigerator with the pipework and compressor removed > although American refrigerators in particular may be a bit large for > many people. > > -- > Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 1442 345104 > Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 1442 343000 > Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:46:55 EST > From: "Frederick L. Hollen" > Subject: Re: WARMING HONEY. > > The lowest temperature setting on my wife's crock-pot cooker > happens to result in a temperature of 140 degrees. I store my > honey in one-gallon glass jars which just fit the crock-pot > with room for a water bath around them. Liquifies in 3-4 hours. > OK for my own use, but not large-scale. > > Fred > > According to krengel lawrence e: > > > > I regularly heat my crystalized honey and notice no change in the > > flavor. I am though cautious to heat only to about 145 degrees F. When > > I first did this using a double boiler, it was hard to maintain the > > temperature. I found the solution at a farm auction. I bought a old > > thermostatically controlled deep frier. It does an excellent - and > > inexpensive - job. Once set, the thermostat warms to 145 and holds it > > until all crystals are gone. I can do about a half dozen one pound > > bottles at a time... The water (which I use instead of the oil the frier > > used to use) acts as a buffer just as the double boiler would. > > > > Larry Krengel > > Marengo, IL USA > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 08:01:55 -0800 > From: "Ken Umbach (kumbach@library.ca.gov)" > Subject: Re: IMHO > > IMHO = "In my humble opinion." > > On Mon, 15 Jan 1996, Michael Haberl wrote: > > > Every now and then some of you use the abreviation *IMHO*, e.g. > > > > Could someone please explain. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:23:47 -0500 > From: "J. David Riddle" > Subject: Warming honey > > I've been reading alot about techniques for warming honey after it has > crystalized, but I have a couple of background questions. First, what are > the factors that contribute to the crystalization of honey? Can these be > manipulated or managed to increase the shelf life of honey? Finally, how > long can you expect the honey to remain uncrystalized after heating it? > Does the heating process cause the crystalization process to begin sooner > the next time? > > J. David Riddle > Newburyport, MA > dmaster@tiac.net > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 12:14:48 -0500 > From: David Eyre > Subject: Re: Races? > > David Eyre wrote. > >> Under the circumstances I would suggest a small precis of the article posted > >> on the Net would be far more valuable. > David Cawley wrote > > I was merely point to a readily available resource that coud be > >ordered from the publisher. I didn't have the issue handy and thought > >that if the person wanted to take the initiative and contact the > >publisher, they'd have a nice article at their finger tips. > > Boy....I sure stirred up a hornets nest!!! I will try again... We tend to > forget.. some of us don't live in the US, some of us don't have access to > the University library. There is no point in telling us to look up an > article in a magazine which we don't subscribe to. No... I can't afford to > subscribe to all the mags. So.. I repeat, a brief precis giving the authors > view would be benifcial to all. I'm sure the author, provided the contents, > contax, etc are not changed, wouldn't mind. Especially if it is of benifit > to all. > > **************************************************** > * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * > * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* > * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * > * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * > **************************************************** > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:25:07 +0000 > From: Peter Wright > Subject: Pashke's Building Frame > > I wonder if anyone is familiar with the construction of the above > device? In german it is called "Baurahmen" and enables the beekeeper to > see activity on the comb without opening the hive. According to H.Storch > in his book "At the Hive Entrance" it is widely used in Germany, but > unfortunately the only description he provides is, " the glass pane of > the window is arranged facing towards the inside of the hive (in Winter) > and the free space filled with corrugated paper for insulation. ...In > the summer, the building frame is positioned with a starter strip of > foundation, and then the window galss outside>" > > I cannot envisage how this is constructed as to simply replace the side > of an existing super with glass will be of no use to observe activity in > the winter time. > > Peter Wright > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:42:55 -0400 > From: Joel Govostes > Subject: Pashke's Building Frame > > I have seen this idea illustrated and described in German beekeeping > manuals. It is a narrow chamber across the front of a hive body and it > holds one frame. Imagine you're looking at a standard hive body, head on. > The idea would be like a double wall on the end of the hive body facing > you. There is a space between the two walls into which you can slide a > frame. This frame would be positioned "sideways" to the regular set of > combs in the hive body, and separated from them by the "inner" wall. I > suppose this inner wall has some set of holes or something so the bees have > easy access to the "building frame." The outer wall facing you would have > a pane of glass with a removable cover. Then to estimate the progress of > the colony you just take off the glass-covering panel and you can look in > to see what the bees are up to on the face of the comb. This gives you a > relative idea of what's going on in the main set(s) of combs. It makes for > a longer hive front - to - back. I have never seen the idea developed in > US/UK books. I hope this is helpful. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 23:21:12 GMT > From: Sid Pullinger > Subject: Races > > I have been following the letters on race and which bee is best with > interest. I would suppose that in countries as large as the U.S. and Canada > beekeepers are widely spaced. Thus most matings would be with drones from > one's own apiary and would be pure most of the time. In my part of the U.K. > almost every beekeeper has another one within easy flying range. In my case > I have four others within a mile of my apiary so any attempt to maintain a > pure strain would be doomed to failure. > I have long since decided that for me race is unimportant. Starting from > scratch it took me some five years of careful selection and culling to end > up with docile, non-swarming bees which wintered well and produced honey. > That was a long time ago and it is a continuous process of selection. Any > stock attempting to swarm is artificially swarmed and ruled out of the > breeding programme however good it is. Any stock showing undue defence > mechanism is immediately sorted out and requeened. Bees which resent > handling have no place where there are neighbours. After sixty years of > beekeeping I have yet to buy in a single queen. > I would advise any beginner not to worry overmuch about race. Beekeepers > have been arguing for more than a hundred years about the relative merits of > the different races and there is still no agreement. Had there been one > superior bee it would have emerged long ago. It is interesting to note that > instrumental insemination has been practised world wide for forty years but > the everyday beekeeper still has to raise his queens in the age old way. > Unless you buy in pure queens every year or live in an oasis you will end up > with hybrids. Virgins from your queens will mate with six or more drones a > mile or more from your apiary. IMHO a carefully selected hybrid will > perform as well as any pure bred. > To start a breeding programme you need five to ten stocks to give a > reasonable range to select from. If you have just one or two and they are > bad-tempered or swarmy you have nothing to start with and they must be > re-queened from outside. > Varroa arrived in my apiary in 1994 and started causing damage in 1995. > Testing with Apistan I have already found a wide range of mite infestation > so there is now another stage in the selection process in the hopes that I > might find some of my bees more resistant than others. Another five year > programme? > _________________________________________________________________ > Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk > 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com > Alresford > Hants SO24 9HF > England > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:00:36 -1000 > From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- Dept. of Agriculture" > > Subject: Re: bee story > > Michael Hardy's newspaper piece on declines in feral honey bee populations > with the advent of tracheal and varroa mites contains one major error. > There is no indication that the two mites are native to South America, as > Hardy reports. Varroa is native to subtropical and tropical Asia where > its original host was the eastern honey bee, Apis cerana; problems with > tracheal mite first were reported from the Isle of Wight in England, > indicating that this species may be native to Europe. > > With regard to another statement made in the article, apiculture refers > more to the practice of beekeeping than to the study of bees. The term > "mellitology" occasionally has been applied to the study of bees. > > Tom Culliney > culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:45:46 -0600 > From: krengel lawrence e > Subject: Re: WARMING HONEY. > > On Sun, 14 Jan 1996, Mark Jensen wrote: > > > >I regularly heat my crystalized honey and notice no change in the > > >flavor. I am though cautious to heat only to about 145 degrees F. When > > >I first did this using a double boiler, it was hard to maintain the > > >temperature. I found the solution at a farm auction. I bought a old > > >thermostatically controlled deep frier. It does an excellent - and > > >inexpensive - job. Once set, the thermostat warms to 145 and holds it > > >until all crystals are gone. I can do about a half dozen one pound > > >bottles at a time... The water (which I use instead of the oil the frier > > >used to use) acts as a buffer just as the double boiler would. > > > > > >Larry Krengel > > >Marengo, IL USA > > > > 145 degrees will seriously damage your honey. Anything above 110 will > > destroy the enzymes which are in the honey and which give fresh honey its > > special flavors and odors. Do a taste test on before and after samples You > > can liquefy your honey by setting your melter to 100 degrees F and leaving > > it for 24 hours. Experiment with the temp and the time. The lower the temp > > the longer it will take. I would recommend the lowest temp to liquefy the > > honey in 24 hours. I have a waterbed heater in an old chest freezer > > connected to a Walter Kelley temperature switch. With the switch set to 95 > > degrees F most any honey liquefies in 24 hours. 60's take about 2 days. > > > > Mark Jensen-Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com > > Los Altos Hills, CA, USA fax 415 941 3488 > > > Mark - > > Your thoughts are interesting. Do you have any cites from research about > the enzymes being destroyed at 100+? I would enjoy reading it. I find > that the local commercial (I am definately not commercial) beekeeper also > heats his to 140ish... however, he uses a flash heater. I intend to try > you 100 degrees for 24 hours. > Larry > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:49:20 GMT > From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau > Subject: molds for candles > > A friend asks me where he can buy molds for candles. I have seen beautiful > ones at the last Apimondia exhibition but I did not note the names and > addresses of the suppliers. Can anybody help my friend with that? > > Jean-Pierre Chapleau > eleveur de reines / queen breeder > vice-president du Conseil canadien du miel / Vice-president of the Canadian > Honey Council > 1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien de Ham, Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 > tel./phone (819) 828-3396; fax (819) 828-0357 > chapleau@praline.net > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:12:43 +0700 > From: Allen Dick > Subject: Where angels fear to tread > > > some of us don't > > have access to the University library. There is no point in telling > > us to look up an article in a magazine which we don't subscribe to. > > No... I can't afford to subscribe to all the mags. > > Anybody on good terms with even two or three people in the bee > business in most countries - and more than a very casual interest - > can get his or her hands on almost any recent (and many not so > recent) copies of Bee Culture or ABJ. > > These are, I believe, the esoteric and very rare publications about > which this matter began. Although may not be in many University > libraries, they are likely in a nearby beekeeper's bookshelf. > > > So.. I repeat, a > > brief precis giving the authors view would be benifcial to all. I'm > > sure the author, provided the contents, contax, etc are not changed, > > wouldn't mind. > > Well, what I think people are (too politely, perhaps) trying to hint > is that they *do* mind having someone demand they precis an article > of little interest to them for someone who is unwilling to get up and > get it for himself. > > And if the author him/herself is being addressed, I am sure that it > is a little insulting to be asked to give the whole carefully > prepared piece in a few words. > > Most here believe they are subscribed to a *bee* list for discussing > matters relating to bees, not the basic and well established methods > of researching and studying. > > I am sure if *anyone* is having genuine dificulty obtaining important > info, or if material is at all hard to obtain, the list will bend > over backwards to assist. On numerous occasions the scientists and > extension people here have mailed me very helpful information. > > People will give as much or as little info as they wish - Many very > knowledgeable people sit and read and never post at all - we're > privileged if they do. > > Let's bee content with taking what is offered freely and not begin to > demand that others serve us only according to our own tastes. > > And let us get back to bees... OK?? > > --------------------------------------------------- > > "Fearing not that I'd become my enemy - in the instant that I speak" > > Regards > > Allen > > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK > RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca > Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures > > ------------------------------ > > End of BEE-L Digest - 14 Jan 1996 to 15 Jan 1996 > ************************************************ > Freund, I n M y H umble O pinion (IMHO) Aufwiedersehen Johann der Bienemensch John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * of gold." --Shakespeare Ellicott City MD 21042 usa * 20 Italian colonies ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org * 3-1/2 decades in beedom ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 09:09:35 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lilian Espinal Subject: susbscribe bibliomex-l In-Reply-To: On Tue, 16 Jan 1996, Lilian Espinal wrote: > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 10:17:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Candle Molds? I bought both metal and polyurethane (sp?) years ago from Robt Berthold Jr/Delaware Valley College/Doylestown PA 18901 (he makes them himself!) but in retrospect I could have done better if purchased from any of the following (ask 4 free cat): 1 Brushy Mt Bee Farm 610 Bethany Church Rd Moravian Falls NC 28654 usa 1-800-beeswax 2 Mann Lake Ltd County Rd 40 & 1st St Hackensack MN 56452 usa 3 Betterbee Inc RR4 Box 4070 Greenwich NY 12843 4 Glorybee Pob2744 Eugene OR 97402 - 800/465-7923 5 Lapp's Bee Supply 500 So Main St Reeseveille WI 53579 - 800/321-1960 Incidentally, you can see Berthold in operation in Coggshall/Morse's book, BEESWAX: Production, Harvesting, Processing & Products (Wicwas Press, Ithaca NY 14850, 1984, 192pp, soft). Bonne chance. Jack the B-man Ellicott City MD usa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 10:38:06 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Warming Honey The method I use to warm honey is to put the sealed jars of honey in the dishwasher! The top temperature is between 120 and 130 degrees F (as measured on my brewing thermometer), all the crystals are melted, and the jars come out squeaky clean to boot! This method is not ideal for large batches and temperatures may vary in dishwashers, but it fits my needs perfectly. I don't recommend that you buy a dishwasher for this purpose, but if you already have one.... Aaron Morris Upstate New York Hobby Beekeeper Vice President, Southern Adirondack Beekeepers' Association ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:30:13 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Howard R. Titman" Subject: FW: Articles ---------- From: David Eyre[SMTP:beeworks@muskoka.net] Sent: Mon, Jan 15, 96 11:13 AM To: Howard R. Titman Subject: RE: Articles >from Wink Howland, Editor, Saskatchewan Beekeeper's Newsletter >Fax (306) 786-6001 >To: Howard Titman, Freelance Pre-Press Graphics >In regards to the Varroa quick test article, please >ask the author to submit an article or information regarding his >product, directly to John Gruszka. John will know whether or >not this is an approved test and whether or not it will give >us the information we require. At this point in time, I >would not feed good about publishing it. >Regards, Wink Howland > >------the above received by fax from the Editor >-please include your fax number in your mail signature >-if you are "selling a product" you should be submitting > a "paid ad". >-the e-mail address for the Sask. Prov. Apiarist is > jgruszk1@mailer.agr.gov.sk.ca > >tnx >Howard Hi Howard, I suggest we forget about it. This is a recognized test in Europe, and has been for a number of years. I find that the attitude is insulting, to have to request that my products be verified is downright ignorant stupidity. The attitude of Sask beekeepers is archaic. We had a similar experience last year with the convention organizers. The drive for profit leaves a bad taste for someone who is trying to help. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Wink I think you would agree,,, we don't need this guys attitude as noticed in other e-mail.... he is the arogant one!!! H ************************************************************* Howard R. Titman Freelance Pre-Press Graphics Tel/Fax (306) 255-2116 P.O.Box 90 Colonsay, Saskatchewan, CANADA S0K 0Z0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- e-mail: free.lance@sasknet.sk.ca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Desktop Publishing & Printing CorelDraw - PageMaker Files Welcome (PKziped) 1200 x 1200 dpi laser output ************************************************************** +++The Saskatchewan BeeKeepers Newsletter+++ ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:32:29 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Honey in drums going for $1.15 per pound I thought I should alert the list memebrs that white honey is now selling in Alberta for $1.15 per pound in drums and there is almost none left. $1 Canadian is about 73 cents US funds. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 17:13:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Honey in drums going for $1.15 per pound Comments: To: Allen Dick In-Reply-To: <9601162131.AA14696@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca> On Tue, 16 Jan 1996, Allen Dick wrote: > I thought I should alert the list memebrs that white honey is now > selling in Alberta for $1.15 per pound in drums and there is almost none left. > > $1 Canadian is about 73 cents US funds. > > > > Regards > > Allen > > W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK > RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca > Honey. Bees, Art, & FutKHures East coast U.S.A.- Some packers are offering $0.80US for white, $0.75 for anything else. If you have honey make some calls.> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x x x Vince & Carole Coppola vcoppola@epix.net x x Coppola Apiaries, (716)965-2904 x x 10220 Bradigan Rd. x x Forestville, N.Y. 14062 x x x x Western New York Beekeepers Association x x x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 23:17:28 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hans-Ulrich THOMAS Subject: Re: Pashke's Building Frame Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom_Elliott@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US Subject: Races (purity thereof) Sid Pullinger in his piece on bee races suggested "I would suppose that in countries as large as the U.S. and Canada beekeepers are widely spaced. Thus most matings would be with drones from one's own apiary and would be pure most of the time." I would seriously doubt that there are many (if any) places in the U.S. (or Canada?) where the conditions described exist. The relatively new mite problems in the "Lower 48" (This refers to that portion of the U.S. which has the misfortion not to be Alaska or Hawaii) may leave feral colonies scarce (temporarily) in some areas. Even so I would guess that the density of beekeepers is still too high to leave many matings with drones from the same colony. I'd be interested to hear some statistics on that, both ante-mites and post-mites. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 09:47:15 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom_Elliott@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US Subject: Feral colonies versus mites First of all I must apologize for failing to identify myself in my comment/question on density of beekeepers in U.S. I admit it was me. Since I have not seen any comments from other Alaskan beekeepers some of you might have guessed. I am working on getting some others in the Cook Inlet Beekeepers Association signed up. This is a great source of information. Much I cannot use, but what I can is worth it. This particular communication is in reference to Michael Hardy's article on "Where have all the bees gone?" It seems an overly pesimistic outlook. The mite problem is an example of something we have seen many times throughout recorded history. A disease which is new to a particular population is introduced with calamitous results. The natives of the Americas were decimated by diseases which were mostly a nuisance to the people who introduced them (speaking in broad terms). Whole population groups were destroyed. But not all native Americans were killed. Today they thrive at the same level as the descendants of the European immigrants. I am confidant that the same will happen with the mite devestations. Oh, the colonies kept alive by treatment of one sort or another will still be subject. The fact that most new feral colonies come from swarms, most of which emerge from managed colonies, will slow down the come-back, but I am confident that a come-back will occur before long. By the way. Is there any real evidence that there is a "native" bee population? I've heard some murmurings to that effect, but little follow up. Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska 99577 103207.3643@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 17:36:19 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: WARMING HONEY. In-Reply-To: <9601151457.AA09746@crosfield.co.uk> On Mon, 15 Jan 1996, Malcolm Roe wrote: > The usual method of re-melting is to use a warming cabinet, which is an > insulated box with a door, a lightbulb at the bottom and a grill above > for the container to stand on.......... Modified freezers are also popular here. I actually do use a thermostat in my cabinet (which is not an ex refrigerator) because the insulation is such that I can melt wax -- a feature I use as part of my wax cleaning process. Many low-cost thermostats seem unreliable in these circumstances, however I have found that some water-heater thermostats (as used in hot-water cylinders, switching several amps) will work down to the right temperatures and seem excellent for a *low* price (about $10?). I plan a larger cabinet in the near future and will have several pre-set temperatures for soft-set, honey melt, wax melt and so on. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 23:35:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Re: Feral colonies versus mites Last year I sent 14 samples of bees that I had picked up in swarms or had removed from buildings to the CT Agric. Expm. Station in New Haven for testing,all but one came back positive for mites. The mites are definitely here in feral colonies. Ralph Harrison Milford, CT harrisonrw@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 21:58:36 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 14 Jan 1996 to 15 Jan 1996 >> There are 18 messages totalling 621 lines in this issue. snip >> End of BEE-L Digest - 14 Jan 1996 to 15 Jan 1996 >> ************************************************ >> >Freund, > > I n M y H umble O pinion (IMHO) > > Aufwiedersehen > > Johann der Bienemensch > John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs John, maybe you could explain why you posted the whole BEE-L Digest in two 17k files just to add the above 8 lines? It escapes me, but I'm sure there is a reason? Mark Jensen mjensen@crl.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:37:57 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Morten Brixtofte Petersen Subject: Heating varroa The principle is called hyperthermi and two German devices for treating frames of capped brood exist. These devices are called "Borgstaedter Thermo Box" and "Apitherm" respectively. Varroa mites are less tolerant to heat than the bees. The interest of hyperthermi is low in Denmark due to poor results reported (the brood is very sensitive to heating and the sensitivity varies with age of brood.) Some of my colleagues are currently experimenting with two different ways of killing varroa mites by heating the entire bee folk. At a recent meeting the two different principles was demonstrated. The first one is designed for treating the entire colony including stores and brood. In the end of the season you place the brood chamber (the entire box - or boxes) on a beetigth net of the bottom part of the device. The bottom part consist of a shallow box with an opening the size of your broodchamber. The top part is identical to the bottom. By means of another box, the same higth as your brood chamber, a closed air circuit is established through the brood chamber. Inside this box the heating (two 150w ligthbulbs) and a ventilator (like the one inside the computer in front of You). The system is controlled by a thermostat ensuring a temperature of max. 44 degrees Celsius (11.2 deg F). The man that has build this equipment is called Benny Bauer, he would be glad to hear from other people with experience or ideas on the subject. He has no internet access so please mail him at my address (below). Compared to the poor results mentioned above (death of brood)he has few dead bees and brood with his equipment. He thinks it is because the bees within the closed circuit manages to keep a high moisture level. He has made experiments this summer and thinks he has killed lots of mites with no harm to the bees. The treatment lasts about one hour. The other device demonstrated at the meeting is meant for treating swarms in summer or colonies in winter. You move the cluster to a net cage. The net cage is placed in a vented oven at 49 degrees Celsius (120.2 deg. F) for 15 min. Then the bees is put back into the hive. The man that build this system claims that the low relative moisture content in winter air combined with the heating is responsible for the death of the varroa mites. Critics say that these bees will die from nosema afterwards. The method should have been used for many years in Russia, but literature is scarce -- references would be very much appreciated! These methods are at current rather time consuming - at least compared to just inserting Apistan strips- as I understand that Americans do. The situation is different here in Denmark. We have had varroa in the country since 1984, by now we have it all over, but still the only legal treatment at present is formic- and lactic acid. All medication is also prohibited. These working conditions cause us to give methods like above a second thought. Regards Morten mp@kvl.dk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 16:52:45 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: honey heater I prefer waterbaths for liquifying honey, Walter Kelley sells a good one inexpensively that will do 4 five gallon pails per run and is thermostatically controlled. To liquify jars or cases of jars I rigged up an upright freezer with a heat lamp in the bottom and a hot water heater thermostat in-line on the heat lamp and am able to control temperatures very precisely. The freezer shelves are nice for stacking cases of jars. 24-36 hours at 110 F will do the trick for granulated jars. Bill Lord -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 07:48:03 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Heating varroa > The principle is called hyperthermi and two German devices for > treating frames of capped brood exist. These devices are called > "Borgstaedter Thermo Box" and "Apitherm" respectively. Varroa mites > are less tolerant to heat than the bees. We have been getting some very interesting posts lately. This reminds me of a matter I brought up here a year or so ago and at some meetings - a question to which I have never received a good answer: a question about brood temperature in hives. I have wondered how variable the temperature in the centre of brood nests is between various hives and different strains of bees , and if it is related to the length of incubation of brood. What caused me to wonder was an experiment I did with a carefully calibrated high/low reading thermometer that showed the one hive I measured to maintain brood between 94.6 to 96.3 degrees F (average 95.5) through quite varying ambient temperatures. It seems to me that the literature I have read mentions 92 degrees F or so. Anyhow, I wonder if there have been experiments to examine this variability and relate it to the length of incubation (important in varroa resistance) or other characteristics. I don't imagine that a difference in brood temp of several degrees would affect varroa development negatively? Or would it? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:25:52 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Do bees move honey in winter? Comments: To: ohbee-l@sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu Gentlepeople: As I looked through my hives this past weekend and noted the conditions of the stores, a question occured to me that I thought I would pose to you. The genesis of the question was the observation that I still have a super and 1/2 (6 5/8 supers each) full of honey o on each hive (I have two.) that the cluster hasn't yet moved up into. Our temperatures for the past three to four weeks have been in the low 20's(F). This week temperatures got into the 40s(F) and even touched 60 (F) (Unusual for Southwestern Ohio, although not unheard of.) I wondered if, when the bees break cluster during this warming period, they would move up into the supers, take honey out of those stores and move it down closer to the brood nest. I don't recall reading anything about this. I do recall reading that the cluster would move up into the stores but would they rearrange the stores when given the opportunity? Mark Egloff MEGLOFF@CSC.COM ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:49:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley, a De Leon Socialist" Subject: Re: Honey in drums going for $1.15 per pound In-Reply-To: On Tue, 16 Jan 1996, Vince Coppola wrote: > On Tue, 16 Jan 1996, Allen Dick wrote: > > I thought I should alert the list memebrs that white honey is now > > selling in Alberta for $1.15 per pound in drums and there is almost none left. > > East coast U.S.A.- Some packers are offering $0.80US for white, $0.75 > for anything else. If you have honey make some calls.> As a hobbyist who hasn't harvested any yet, I'm assuming those are good prices for bulk? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, University Of Scranton | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu | reaction is the alternative. ddc1@SCRANTON | -Daniel De Leon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 11:15:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joseph Cooper Subject: Re: Warming Honey Comments: To: Aaron Morris In-Reply-To: <960116.103842.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> On Tue, 16 Jan 1996, Aaron Morris wrote: > The method I use to warm honey is to put the sealed jars of honey in the > dishwasher! The top temperature is between 120 and 130 degrees .... Sounds like a great idea. Have you ever experienced bulged lids? ************************* * Joseph Cooper * * jcooper@infinet.com * ************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:58:57 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Honey in drums going for $1.15 per pound > On Tue, 16 Jan 1996, Vince Coppola wrote: > > On Tue, 16 Jan 1996, Allen Dick wrote: > > > I thought I should alert the list memebrs that white honey is > > > now selling in Alberta for $1.15 per pound in drums and there is > > > almost none left. > > > > East coast U.S.A.- Some packers are offering $0.80US for > > white, $0.75 > > for anything else. If you have honey make some calls.> > > As a hobbyist who hasn't harvested any yet, I'm assuming > those > are good prices for bulk? Okay, maybe I should have said a little more... They are better than good! They are roughly *double* the price a year ago. The reason for the high prices is a shortage of honey. This is partially due to the US action against Chinese honey, but many say that the Chinese honey surplus was about sold out anyhow. I don't know. At any rate there is a 'short squeeze' on where those who have comitments to sell honey cannot find any to fill their obligations and are chasing the remaining small amount at higher and higher prices. Many say this is not good for the industry because the customers who actually consume the product may balk and not purchase. This will not be a problem if the shortage continues, but will lead to a huge increase in production - and large price drops if the shortage disappears due to increased investment in production and/or normal or better crops next year. We'll see. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 12:20:31 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Bulging in the dishwasher - Look out, she's gonna blow! Yes, the lids bulge but not enough to break jars or bend the lids. When the jars are still warm I relieve the pressure and tighten the lids so they're 'pressure sealed' after they cool. If the lids aren't tight when they go into the dishwasher they just need to be tightened after the dry cycle completes, but I don't chance the loose lid coming off and I don't want the honey absorbing H2O during the wash cycle. I now bottle in quart canning jars, so the collar on the canning jar can be somewhat loose while the lid itself is snug. I used to recycle juice bottles, but unfortunately most manufacturers now bottle in plastic, which is why I switched to canning jars. I s'pose I should buy 'official' honey jars but I find canning jars more convenient (available at local hardware stores, usually on sale in the fall, no shipping and ready replacement if breakage is a problem). It seems there's always room for a jar or two whenever I run the dishwasher which allows me to keep my supply ahead of my demand, but I'm strictly a small potatoes dealer (friends and office sales, approximately a hundred quarts a year; $6 per quart, $5 for refills). For me, production is the reward (being outside playing with the bees), selling is a chore. I imagine I'd look for a different system (such as the custom heating cabinets others have described) if my operation was larger, but for my size and needs the dishwasher is fine. Sincerely, Aaron Morris Hobby Beekeeper in Upstate New York Quality honey, clean dishes. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:25:42 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Alida Francisco Janmaat Subject: Kids and Bees In-Reply-To: <96011423371548428@dibbs.com> from "Michael Hardy" at Jan 14, 96 10:25:00 pm Hi all, I'm running a workshop for kids, ages 10-13, on honey bees and I'm looking for ideas on activities that deal with honey bee behavior. Any ideas? Thanks in advance! Alida ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 21:22:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Wayne E. Esaias" Subject: communication holes Spending my winter days to advantage, and having just assembled a goodly number of supers and hive bodies and frames, with a variety of foundation, I have a question on the effectiveness of the communication holes (or lack thereof) in the various brands and sizes of foundation. I have been told that they make it easier for the queen to move to the other side of the comb, and that would explain why the holes (or notched corners on plastic types) are found on most of the sheets for 9 1/8 brood frames, but not on the Illinois sizes. But, just how much better are the holes over no holes, and, are they also "better" on the medium (6 5/8") honey supers? I have more than a few combs made with wired/wax foundation in which the bees have not made communication holes, and others which have several. Is there good evidence that anyone knows of off the top of their heads, or is this just an attempt to mimic what happens sometimes with wax foundation in the belief that it makes a difference? Wayne Esaias 18 colonies, Howard County, Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:12:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: communication holes Along those lines, should the holes of plastic foundation be in the top corners or bottom corners? God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A., 137 hives, less than 1 year in beekeeping. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:17:26 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: NATURAL MITE SOLUTION At the last meeting of the Southwestern Beekeepers' Association, one of the members brought a flier from Tuttle Apiary Labs in Woodland, Washington advertising a natural miticide. The solution is suppose to fight mites, afb, efb and be a general miracle cure. The solution is priced at $15-18 per ounce with an ounce treating up to 25 hives when mixed with petroleum jelly. The flier mentions a patent but the number given for the patent is from the 1800's and would be out of date now, Does anyone know what the formula for this solution is? Richard Barnes 2214 Chisholm Duncan, OK 73533 rbarnes@halnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:41:46 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Sheppard Subject: Re[2]: communication holes a ll communication hole need to be on the bottom ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 01:02:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Kids and Bees AFJ>From: Alida Francisco Janmaat >Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:25:42 -0800 >Subject: Kids and Bees >I'm running a workshop for kids, ages 10-13, on honey bees and I'm >looking for ideas on activities that deal with honey bee behavior. >Any ideas? Hello Alida, Normally I post this via e-mail and private, it is a list of short text files available to all beekeepers who can do internet e-mail, 150 files in all, but in order to insure that all know that I am alive and well I have posted this via the list and just in case others may be interested in the beekeeping information that all are welcome to request via e-mail. Try the BEEKEEPING FAQ System, or have the students use it...for those in this list who can't stand the idea of people asking basic questions over and over again the Wild Bee's BBS auto FAQ system has been getting an average of 250 world wide hits per month providing general information to beekeepers and friends of beekeepers and all are welcome to use the system regardless of race, religion, nationality, beekeeping experience, or educational achievement at no cost to anyone but me and the requesters. ttul Andy- __________________________________________________________ (//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////) (//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////) /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ : WILD BEE'S BBS Beekeeping Support BBS 209-826-8107 : : BEEKEEPING FAQ'S Beekeeper's Helping Beekeepers : : : : How to USE: : : : : To receive a Beekeeping FAQ via E-MAIL, send a message to : : to the FAQ name @beenet.com - For example, to get a copy : : of this message, (WILDBEES.FAQ), send a internet E-MAIL : : to: wildbees.faq@beenet.com ..To get a copy of the INDEX : : of APICULTURAL ISSUES AND ANSWERS newsletters (APINDEX) : : you would send E-MAIL to: apindex@beenet.com. : : : : Mail runs are 6am & 6pm, California time zone. The system : : and nothing is required on the subject line or in the : : message itself. : : : : FAQ (total FAQ's in system 150) Last update : : name one per message * NEW : :------------------------------------------------------------: : WILDBEES.FAQ YOU ARE READING IT. Check it 11-21-95 : : once a month for changes! : : : : MEADLOVE.FAQ Mead Lover FAQ 11-21-95 : : : : HONEYPOP.TXT 100% Honey Pop recipies 10-30-95 : : : : YELLOJAC.TXT Yellow Jacket control. 7-25-95 : : : : FORMIC.TXT How to safely us FORMIC ACID * 7-25-95 : : : : YELLOW.PAG Internet Addresses of Beekeeper's 5-08-95 : : YELLOW PAGES, 30K, Stan G. Kain : : : : HINT.IND INDEX of 30 different Beekeeping : : topics. From Malcolm T. Sanford. : : : : BKEEPING.FAQ HOW TO FIND IT ON THE INTERNET, 5-01-95 : : Adam Finkelstein's Beekeeping FAQ : : : : SUNSITE.FAQ ARCHIVES of Internet Beekeeping 5-01-95 : : news group and list mail, & more. : : : : APINDEX INDEX of Apricultural "Issues and : : Answers" APIS from Florida Extension : : : : HEALING.BIB HONEY & Healing, Bibliography 3-18-95 : : : : MEAD.FAQ HOW TO find information on making : : HONEY MEAD. The drink of the God's! : : : : WNHUB.LST Wild Net hub list, Pick up the BEE-NET : : Conference from 1 of 700 bbs's in your area : : : :FSHEET11.TXT US Beekeeping FAQ sheet from USDA : : : : SADBEES 1st Beekeeper Alarm on Bee Virus losses : : to US bee's, a must read. : : : : ALL HINT's & APIS NEWSLETTERS courtesy of Malcolm T. : : Sanford, Extension Service University of Florida. : : BEENET.COM and the WILD BEE'S BBS (sm) are *FREE* : : Information Services for Beekeepers and Friends. SYSOP : : andy.nachbaur@beenet.com, dial up (209) 826-8107 28.8 bd, : : 8N1, 24 hrs since 1990. : :------------------------------------------------------------: \__________________________________________________________/ --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ Honey Lovers Stick Together ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 09:22:30 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Kids and Bees In-Reply-To: <199601171825.SAA01802@beaufort.sfu.ca> On Wed, 17 Jan 1996, Alida Francisco Janmaat wrote: > Hi all, > I'm running a workshop for kids, ages 10-13, on honey bees and I'm > looking for ideas on activities that deal with honey bee behavior. > Any ideas? > Thanks in advance! > Alida > When my kids where this age they used to take their 'pet bees' into the local pet show. Not only did the always win but the judges awarded the prizes very quickely. We would select a drone and tie a piece of black thread around the bee between throax and abdomen. He now acts like a noisy helium baloon with the kid on the other end of the thread. Eric Abell email: eabell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Gibbons, AB, T0A 1N0 Canada (403) 998 3143 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 09:44:26 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert McDowell Subject: Re: Kids and Bees -Reply Comments: To: eabell@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA No information on kids and bees but can anyone tell me how to get off the bee-line?? Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:29:25 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom_Elliott@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US Subject: Re: "Re [2]: communication holes" What, if any value is a response like this. Not only do I not have any idea who sent it, but I have no idea of their reasons. Should I accept this advice just because it is out there on the web "somewhere"? ------------------------------------------------------ "a ll communication hole need to be on the bottom" Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska 103207.3643@Compuserve OR Tom_Elliott_at_ancav1@jhqnov.dot.state.ak.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:54:40 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert McDowell Subject: Re: "Re [2]: communication holes" -Reply Check the email address of the sender for a clue as to there whereabouts. I believe the sender of the ungramatical--and not necessarily correct--message about communication holes was from a university in North Carolina. Send his/her department chairman/woman a copy of the email--they probably have higher standards than what we saw for departmental communication. At one time I ran several hundred colonies, some with foundation that had the plastic layer in the middle with beeswax on both sides. I recall the bees trying to chew communication holes on the top corners. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:22:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Randy Lynn Subject: Re: Book search In a message dated 95-12-13 09:26:08 EST, you write: >I have exhausted all known means to locate the following book via the >internet, commercial suppliers, libraries etc. If anyone knows the >whereabouts of a supplier please let me know. >Bumble Bee Economics ISBN 0-674-08581-7. Thanks > Don Maleta 29 Keen Rd. Linfield, Pa. 19468-1037 > --- DMaleta@vfl.paramax.com Or DMaleta@aol.com --- > > > It is published by Harvard University Press, Cambridge, Mass. I just picked up a copy at the local bookstore. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 09:35:09 +1259 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Re: Honey in drums going for $1.15 per pound -Reply Comments: To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Thanks, Alan, for this interesting information on North American honey prices. Very much appreciated, especially since on this side of the world we're in the midst of our main flows and beekeepers are beginning to wonder whether they can expect a price rise, too. I was also interested in your comments on Chinese honey. Having followed the dumping duty issue from afar, I've been wondering for quite some time what effect the initial duty would have on the world honey market (ie, where would all that Chinese honey go if it wasn't being sold to the US). >From the increased interest being shown by international honey buyers recently, it would seem that this portion of Chinese honey hasn't made it out into the world honey market. There is even a report circulating that the Americans are having a hard time sourcing enough Chinese honey to fulfill the US non-dumping quota. Your comments on the situation are the first I've read which shed any light on this "magical" disappearance of Chinese honey. Can you shed any further light on the subject? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:47:54 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Re: "Re [2]: communication holes" -Reply I've put communication holes at the top, on the theory that there is less room up there for moving from frame-to-frame, and on natural comb that's where you find them, anyway. I'd be interested in the reason why someone would think they need to be at the bottom, where the frames don't generally meet, as they do at the top. Seems redundant. Jane B. In unseasonably warm San Jose, California... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:36:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Pollen-Processing Tip 18jan96 1900Z SUBJECT: Pollen-Processing Tip To be read only by the hobbyist. How do U "clean, strain or sort pollen " if U collect only a small amount a year? "I hand sort it, one pellet at a time." Wow! Answer: My sympathies w/ U. That's how I did it 17 years ago. I engage in cleaning every step of the way starting when I empty the traps daily or every other day, depending upon the flow. Here R the details. When the pollen drawer w/ its screened bottom is removed, it is shaken on location to remove pollen dust. Larger debris is picked out by hand & discarded then and there. (The larger amount of pollen in the tray, the lesser amount of debris and vice-versa!) If the collection is very small, it tends be very dirty (flower and bee body parts, wax and propolis bits, cell cappings, and chewings, etc.). Best to discard rather than fool with it. Pollen collection is dumped onto the lid of a five-pound plastic p-nut butter container, about six-inches in diameter (it has raised sides) and blown over to remove the light stuff. Missed large debris is picked out again and discarded. The lid is dumped into the p-btr container (more than one container is on hand to receive the pollen of different degrees of contamination. For example, a very clean batch gets its own container). Am usually not carrying more than three such containers, but most often two, seldom one only. After the pollen is dried and frozen in the one-gallon plastic food bags (the subject of my last Pollen Tip), the bags are set out on a table covered with newspaper. Their exterior condensation dries off after a couple of hours in a warm room. Next, the contents of each bag is dumped separately into a wooden device made out of 3/4" lumber: it measures about 15" square, with 3-inch sides and has aluminum window screen bottom (15-mesh?). The device is shaken vigorously side to side, outside over a picnic table: any obvious debris is picked out again. The pollen is then dumped into a quart mason jar from the tipped corner of the shaker, while the pollen dust, resting on the newspapers on the picnic table, is saved for personal consumption. The "cleaned" pollen is stored in quart mason, or similar, jars until needed to fill the one-pound bottles, holding 7 oz, to replenish the sales stand. There is one last cleaning step. The dry pollen dumped a little bit at a time onto a dinner plate (eight? inches in diameter) where any remaining debris is picked out with stainless steel tweezers--at this stage of the game, there shud be very little detritus left. The surface of the plate is blown over again to remove any remaining light stuff. The plate is dumped into a one- gallon plastic bag (fits perfectly) and the bag itself is unloaded into the larger holding jars which in turn are unloaded into the one-pound glass queenline sales jars as necessary. BTW, mouth-blowing may be replaced by a small fan strategically placed between falling pollen and a large box embedded with a clean sheet, below, to remove any light stuff. I repeat: this is for an operation that collects less than 50# a year and seldom over a pound a day. Hope this helps. Bonne chance! Jack the B-man Ellicott City MD usa - jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us PS For more details and pictures, see John Iannuzzi, "Pollen Trapping for `Beeginners': Processing & Sales - For those who have thought about collecting pollen but need pointers on management & methods, trap purchase, processing & sales--here are the basics" (American Bee Journal, Part III, Sep 92, pp. 599-602). ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 16:11:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Wax I have received the following off the Web. Could someone in that area help this gentleman, please? > >We live in north/central Colorado. If anyone around here has some Bees Wax we would be willing to drive to them to buy it. >How much depends on the price but I would say from 10 to 30 lbs. (making >candles) > Hal Pearson > 800 Elm > Windsor, Co. 80550 > tel 970 686 5960 **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 19:31:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Liz Day Subject: book search Wicwas Press also has it. Anyone have thier email? I'm not at home. Liz Day LDAY@indy.net Indianapolis, Indiana, central USA No Web site, but you can still 'finger' me. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:28:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: Rogers Replacement Hi USDA's Nick Calderone has been offered the position. Larry Connor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:57:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: Book search Hi I have copies for sale for $18.95 plus $2.50 postage. Larry Connor Wicwas Press P.O. Box 817 Cheshire CT 06410 ljconnor@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:58:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: book search LJCONNOR@AOL.COM Thanks for the plug. Larry Connor Wicwas Press ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 07:39:18 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert McDowell Subject: Re: Book search -Reply I believe the book you are after is published by Oxfor Univ. Press. They have an 800 number you can call to order it directly, if it is still in print. If not in print, there is a scientific used book dealer in New York City--look in NYC yellow pages uner used books--who can find a used copy if one is on the market. good luck. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 08:13:24 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Honey in drums going for $1.15 per pound > Your comments on the situation are the first I've read which shed > any light on this "magical" disappearance of Chinese honey. Can you > shed any further light on the subject? > An interesting comment was made at our convention. I've wondered about repeating it, but will if all understand it is just an anecdote and not substantiated. Someone asked a speaker if the increasing prices of honey were being passed on to Chinese peasants who produce it. Apparently an official inside that country had been asked the same question and the reply had been to the effect that if the prices paid to producers in the country exceed the price of sugar there they would have a quality problem. Just like the good old USA? ;-) (Ease off, patriots, I'm just kidding - (I think)) Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 08:27:58 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: communication holes > But, just how much better are the holes over no > holes, and, are they also "better" on the medium (6 5/8") honey > supers? I have more than a few combs made with wired/wax foundation > in which the bees have not made communication holes, and others > which have several. Is there good evidence that anyone knows of off > the top of their heads, or is this just an attempt to mimic what > happens sometimes with wax foundation in the belief that it makes a > difference? I always figured the communication holes were caused by several things: 1. Bees that were not on a strong flow chewing the corners of the foundation - possibly for wax to draw the centre - while halfheatedly drawing foundation. 2. Mice in the hive. 3. beekeepers cutting cells or whatever. As far as I've observed, the bees will draw even jumbo sheets right to the corners in a strong flow, so I presume this is what they do under good conditions. Natural comb found in granaries and other places can be *huge* with no holes - and they are attached on the top to boot - so I presume holes are unneccessary. Having said that, I think holes probably don't hurt, and likely can help in winter - especially if you do not provide a bee space above your frames due to a quilt or sack on the top of the frames, or because of a shallow rabbet. In such as case in winter, holes near the top would be more helpful, because the bees should have no trouble getting under the frames. We are looking at minus forty outside and have no more communication holes than accident provides, and we aren't worried. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:10:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: PollenTipBis For hobbyist only. Re ease of cleaning pollen take. Forgot to mention the very FIRST step is to use a good trap, a self- cleaning one. For details and photos, see my letter to the editor, "Self-cleansing Pollen Trap", American BeeJournal, May 1995, page 376. PS It's not my trap. Again, viel Glu"ck. Jack the B-man ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 16:46:11 -400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Calum Ewing Subject: Demonstration Bee Hives Hello, The Museum of Natural History in Nova Scotia is considering setting up a demonstration bee hive the help visitors learn about bees, pollination and insects in general. Does anyone have any references, advice or experiences with demonstration hives set up indoors? We were wondering things like: How far are bees willing to travel, say through a plexiglass tube, to reach the outdoors? How do they react to lighting of the hive interior (eg. through plexiglass sides) or movement of people near the hive? Has anyone had success overwintering bees indoors (we're at Lat. 44 00 00)? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Please reply directly to me, or to the list if you think your information may be of wider interest. Thanks for your help. Calum Ewing Registrar Nova Scotia Museum of Natural History E-mail: ewingcn@nsm.ednet.ns.ca URL: http://rs6000.nshpl.library.ns.ca/nsmuseum/summer.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:11:55 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Painter Subject: Demonstration Bee Hives *** Resending note of 01/19/96 15:09 FROM: BILL PAINTER 471-0747 NETWORK SUPPORT SUBJECT: Demonstration Bee Hives There is a setup like that at the Nature Center here in Lincoln Ne. The man that set it up is Marion Ellis 402-483-4370 Thanks, Bill Painter support4@vmhost.state.ne.us ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 16:59:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MacFawn, Dave" Subject: Re: Demonstration Bee Hives Comments: To: Calum Ewing Yes, the Museum on Natural History in Raleigh, NC has an indoor observation hive. I just headed up a team that put an observation hive in the Riverbanks Zoo here in Columbia, SC. Give me a telephone call and I will be glad to discuss. Home 803-957-8897 Work 803-939-7409 David MacFawn ---------- >From: Calum Ewing >To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L >Subject: Demonstration Bee Hives >Date: Friday, January 19, 1996 4:46PM > >Return-Path: <@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM:BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU> >Received: from ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM by msgate.ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM id > <30FFC178@msgate.ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM>; Fri, 19 Jan 96 16:06:16 edt >Received: by ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM; 19 Jan 96 16:03:14 EST >Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub5.attgis.com > (8.7.3/8.7.3) with UUCP id QAA17986 for > msgate.columbiasc.attgis.com!davem; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 16:01:55 -0500 (EST) >Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 19 Jan 96 15:57:49 EST >Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with > BSMTP id 9354; Fri, 19 Jan 96 15:43:01 EST >Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by > CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9355; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 > 15:42:58 -0500 >Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) > with NJE id 7452 for BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:42:52 > -0500 >Received: from ALBNYVM1 (NJE origin SMTP@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail > V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9349; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:42:52 -0500 >Received: from trademart-1.ednet.ns.ca by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) > with TCP; Fri, 19 Jan 96 15:42:50 EST >Received: from nsm-1.nsm.EDnet.NS.CA by trademart-1.ednet.ns.ca (AIX 4.1/UCB > 5.64/4.04-940317) id AA29520; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 16:33:59 -0400 >Received: from FS0101_EDU_NSM_MAIN/MAILQUEUE by mailserv.nsm.ednet.ns.ca > (Mercury 1.21); 19 Jan 96 16:46:45 -400 >Received: from MAILQUEUE by FS0101_EDU_NSM_MAIN (Mercury 1.21); 19 Jan 96 > 16:46:13 -400 >Received: from nsm-49.nsm.EDnet.NS.CA by mailserv.nsm.ednet.ns.ca (Mercury > 1.21); 19 Jan 96 16:46:11 -400 >Priority: normal >X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) >Message-ID: <40378DF3593@mailserv.nsm.ednet.ns.ca> >Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 16:46:11 -400 >Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >Comments: Authenticated sender is >From: Calum Ewing >Subject: Demonstration Bee Hives >To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Hello, > >The Museum of Natural History in Nova Scotia is considering setting up >a demonstration bee hive the help visitors learn about bees, >pollination and insects in general. Does anyone have any references, >advice or experiences with demonstration hives set up indoors? We >were wondering things like: > >How far are bees willing to travel, say through a plexiglass tube, to >reach the outdoors? > >How do they react to lighting of the hive interior (eg. through >plexiglass sides) or movement of people near the hive? > >Has anyone had success overwintering bees indoors (we're at >Lat. 44 00 00)? > >Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Please reply >directly to me, or to the list if you think your information may be of >wider interest. > >Thanks for your help. > >Calum Ewing >Registrar >Nova Scotia Museum of Natural History >E-mail: ewingcn@nsm.ednet.ns.ca > >URL: http://rs6000.nshpl.library.ns.ca/nsmuseum/summer.html > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 07:06:14 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Caldeira Subject: Re: Demonstration Bee Hives At 04:46 PM 1/19/96 -400, you wrote: >Hello, > >The Museum of Natural History in Nova Scotia is considering setting up >a demonstration bee hive the help visitors learn about bees, >pollination and insects in general. Does anyone have any references, >advice or experiences with demonstration hives set up indoors? We >were wondering things like: > >How far are bees willing to travel, say through a plexiglass tube, to >reach the outdoors? Dallas is quite different from Nova Scotia climate, but ... Bees at Science Place Museum in Dallas travel a little more than three feet to reach the outdoors through a three inch diameter clear plastic tube. This hive design has been operational for nearly two years now and it does not seem to stress the bees. The tube is tilted slightly towards the outdoors to drain any condensation. The original hive design at Science Place DID have some tube problems. Since bees naturally tend to move towards the light when seeking exit from the hive, we found that the tube connection to the hive needed to be located in the direction where the most light is coming from. Normally, this is near an upper corner of the hive near the glass front. We added a lower entrance too, so the undertaker bees could do their thing. Ventilation was another thing we learned the hard way. It became important for our hive to have no ventilation from inside the room for two reasons: (1) In public buildings there is almost always an air pressure differential between the outdoors and indoors, so any source of hive ventilation from the room can cause a wind flow through the hive; (2) The bees can better gauge the outdoor temperature without the airflow from the building. We do have some condensation inside the hive. Direct sunlight on the plexiglass can cook the hive. > >How do they react to lighting of the hive interior (eg. through >plexiglass sides) or movement of people near the hive? > Light or people movement in the hives generally shouldn't be a problem. Queens will regularly lay near the plexiglass if the hive is no more than three or four frames wide. There is a trade-off here: Fewer frames width give better viewing of brood area (forcing the brood against the glass), but narrow hives stress the bees more. An outdoor observation hive at the Dallas Arboretum that I maintain is only two frames wide and it overwintered nicely for the past two years (However, I'm sure the bees would prefer a width more suited to a spherical winter cluster!). Single-width observation hives generally stress the bees too much for permanent displays, IMHO. > >Calum Ewing >Registrar >Nova Scotia Museum of Natural History >E-mail: ewingcn@nsm.ednet.ns.ca > >URL: http://rs6000.nshpl.library.ns.ca/nsmuseum/summer.html > Regards, John in Dallas ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 11:39:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Martin Subject: Re: Communication Holes On Thu, 18 Jan 1996, Jane B. of San Jose, California wrote: >I've put communication holes at the top, on the theory that there is less >room up there for moving from frame-to-frame, and on natural comb that's >where you find them, anyway. I'd be interested in the reason why someone >would think they need to be at the bottom, where the frames don't generally >meet, as they do at the top. Seems redundant. and Robert McDowell (no address given) wrote: >At one time I ran several hundred colonies, some with foundation that >had the plastic layer in the middle with beeswax on both sides. I recall >the bees trying to chew communication holes on the top corners. Two brands of foundation in the U. S. with "communication holes" are Duracomb and Duragilt, both with plastic sheet reinforcement covered by wax, introduced initially by Dadant in1963. (Dadant & Sons is the largest and probably one of the oldest beekeeping supply companies in the U.S., and is the publisher of American Bee Journal.) The 1996 Dadant catalog pictures both of these foundations with the communication holes on the bottom. Furthermore, in the book "First Lessons in Beekeeping" by C. P. Dadant (first copywrited 1917, TENTH printing in 1990) states on p. 23, Fig. 3 (picture of Duragilt foundation), "The two holes in the bottom of the foundation are called 'communication holes' and will be used by the bees as they travel through the comb." This establishes that the INTENT is for communication holes to be positioned at the BOTTOM of the frame. That in itself, however, does not establish scientific validity. In my observation of deep brood chamber frames, whenever bees are given wire reinforced foundation, they draw the comb from top to bottom (as they do in nature), then chew away a space between the comb and the BOTTOM bar. I am not convinced the purpose of this space is for "communication" or travelling. I will casually hypothesize it is an area reserved for building queen cups in anticipation of producing queen cells for possible future swarming. I have never observed bees having chewed holes in the upper corners of comb in frames. First of all, since bees naturally build comb from top down, it seems "out of character" for them to THEN go back and chew holes through the top, which in many instances in the wild supports the weight of the comb. Second, the top corners is exactly where the bees store honey for immediate access to the brood area. And last, whenever I have used Duragilt in brood chamber deeps, the bees try (unsuccessfully) to enlarge the manufactured communication holes (at the bottom) by removing the wax around them, rendering that section of frame useless. (BTW, I have never observed bees chewing "communication holes" anywhere in honey supers, but then, I use the shallow size there, so the comparison may not be valid.) It would be good to hear from Dadant about this. Surely this has been discussed in ABJ of the past. What about it, "scientists", and, especially, "ordinary" beekeepers out there? :>} David Martin dmartin199@AOL.COM Fifteen years a "scientist", Four years a beekeeper, with Six hives in central North Carolina, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 11:39:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Martin Subject: Patience and Tolerance On Thu, 18 Jan, Tom Elliott of Eagle River, Alaska, intolerantly wrote: > What, if any value is a response like this. Not only do I not have > any idea who sent it, but I have no idea of their reasons. Should I > accept this advice just because it is out there on the web > "somewhere"? > > ------------------------------------------------------ > "a ll communication hole need to be on the bottom" > > > Tom Elliott > Eagle River, Alaska > 103207.3643@Compuserve OR > Tom_Elliott_at_ancav1@jhqnov.dot.state.ak.us and Robert McDowell (no adress given, but apparently from the US Department of Agriculture, APHIS program, based on e-mail address), wrote, with two grammatical errors: >Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:54:40 -0700 >From: Robert McDowell >Subject: Re: "Re [2]: communication holes" -Reply > >Check the email address of the sender for a clue as to there >whereabouts. I believe the sender of the ungramatical--and not >necessarily correct--message about communication holes was from a >university in North Carolina. Send his/her department chairman/woman a >copy of the email--they probably have higher standards than what we >saw for departmental communication. >.... One of the greatest virtues of being a beekeeper is that it teaches patience and tolerance. Patience to work each hive with careful deliberation, and tolerance to the occasional sting in spite of your patience. For the most part, the subscribers of BEE-L exercise these traits. Before quickly jumping in to criticize some one for trying to be helpful, one should think of the old Indian saying about "walking a mile in my moccasins." There are many excellent beekeepers with many years of experience and accumulated knowledge of beekeeping who are "newbies" when it comes to computers. I know, because I have presented programs for beekeepers on using the Internet. Typographical skills, computer literacy, excellence in "netiquette", and "higher standards for departmental communication" are hallmarks of a desk job. I doubt that the truly great beekeepers have desk jobs. The author of the original answer to "communication holes", is a beekeeping stalwart (in more ways than one! :) in NC. He was with me when I first opened a hive. David Martin dmartin199@AOL.COM Fifteen years a "scientist", Four years a beekeeper (with thanks to Bill Sheppard and others), with Six hives in central North Carolina, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 20:27:50 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Communication Holes David Martin wrote: >This establishes that the INTENT is for communication >holes to be positioned at the BOTTOM of the frame. That >in itself, however, does not establish scientific validity. > >In my observation of deep brood chamber frames, >whenever bees are given wire reinforced foundation, they >draw the comb from top to bottom (as they do in nature), >then chew away a space between the comb and the >BOTTOM bar. That's my experience too. When i have two brood boxes the bees like to chew wax off from the frames at the bottom box. They also remove wax at the end bars providing hiding places for swarm cells. My frames are drawn out in supers, and only nice drawn frames are going to the brood boxes. But the bees "modify" them after a season. >I am not convinced the purpose of this >space is for "communication" or travelling. I will casually >hypothesize it is an area reserved for building queen cups >in anticipation of producing queen cells for possible future >swarming. Not sure about that. Bees prefer to have swarm cells above the cluster or when superseeding in the centre. To my knowledge they don't often make cells at the bottom. >whenever I have used >Duragilt in brood chamber deeps, the bees try >(unsuccessfully) to enlarge the manufactured >communication holes (at the bottom) by removing the wax >around them, rendering that section of frame useless. That's been annoying me for years, so much space that's not used in the hive. >(BTW, I have never observed bees chewing "communication >holes" anywhere in honey supers, but then, I use the >shallow size there, so the comparison may not be valid.) I have not seen a difference between shallows and deeps in the supers. The bees close the communication hole in the deeps when I use them for supers. (when I use Duragilt) >It would be good to hear from Dadant about this. Surely >this has been discussed in ABJ of the past. What about it, >"scientists", and, especially, "ordinary" beekeepers out there? :>} Yes, anyone else out there that's got some answers? regards P-O Gustafsson Sweden beeman@kuai.se ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 16:10:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Re: Patience and Tolerance HERE! HERE! WELL SAID! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 16:26:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: Re: Saw dust in front of hive When I inspected my colonies today one of the had what appeared to be sawdust. It was like wet wood mixed with yellow flakes. It was nearly blocking the entrance and was on the ground in front of the hive. My other colonies do not have this. This is my first winter keeping bees and I have not send a reference to this in any of the books I have. Does anyone have any ideas what this might be, and do I need to be concerned. Thanks, Bill at Bent Holly Farms Brighton, Tennessee ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 23:50:39 -0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sven Gerdin Subject: Re: Demonstration Bee Hives >Hello, > >The Museum of Natural History in Nova Scotia is considering setting up >a demonstration bee hive ... Hello Calum! Last summer I started a 2 frames hive with glass sides, which can be covered with a wooden sheet to darken. The hive was set up indoors and connected with the outside through a plastic tube, usually used for electric wires in houses. The tube is yellowish, and you can see the shadows of the bees moving through it. We live on lat ~59.5 in Europe. >How far are bees willing to travel, say through a plexiglass tube, to >reach the outdoors? Our tube length is about 40 cm, but I am sure you can increase it! The glass in the window is changed to a plywood with a hole for the tube, thats all what we have done to the building. We had a cold period for a little more than three weeks with lower temperature an -20 degrees Centigrade, and it was OK with the bees. >How do they react to lighting of the hive interior (eg. through >plexiglass sides) or movement of people near the hive? I have not seen any special reactions, you can stydy their behaviour (eg dancing), but I have got a feeling that the queen more often move the the darker side. >Has anyone had success overwintering bees indoors (we're at >Lat. 44 00 00)? We had then to overwinter. Be careful to have some sort of nurishing apparatus if needed. The bees are more active than the ordinary bees in behives outside. It is also important to let them have the tube outdoors open, so that they feel the real temperature. Good Luck! Sven Gerdin Sweden Med vdnliga hdlsningar och ha en bra dag Sven ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 16:27:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Taylor Subject: POLLEN SUBSTITUTE "PROVITI" -- [ From: Tom Taylor * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Seven or eight years ago I got some pollen substitute which originated in France called PROVITI. Several beekeepers in my area (Saskatchewan, Canada) were impressed with it and have asked me to locate it againn for them. Does anyone have knowledge of the product or source. Thanks. Tom Taylor honeywood@sasknet.sk.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 23:55:56 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "conex.com.br" Subject: http://www.halcyon.com/kenworth/sfr/bees.htm i'd like to know if there is any software to manage apiaries. Please send me the answer by E-mail. Thanks, Thales ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 22:20:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ga14 Subject: Re: Saw dust in front of hive In-Reply-To: <097.09125364.NHJV32A@prodigy.com> Hi Bill That is a good observation. My bet as to what you saw at the entrance of your colony is not sawdust but cappings (both brood and honey probably). What you observed may tell you that your colony is raising brood and getting plenty to eat. When you get a nice warm day, it wouldn't hurt to pop the cover and check how your colony is doing for stores (ie honey). Once brood rearing begins the colony starts using up honey at a much more rapid pace. So it is a good idea monitor food resources during the last part of the winter. If you have any questions about wintering or feeding, please feel free to contact me. Regards Gordy **************************************** Gordon Allen-WArdell Extension Apiculturist University of Maryland email ga14@umail.umd.edu 301 405-3953 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 02:23:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN ROMANIK Subject: Re: Demonstration Bee Hives > Hello, > > The Museum of Natural History in Nova Scotia is considering setting up > a demonstration bee hive the help visitors learn about bees, > pollination and insects in general. Does anyone have any references, > advice or experiences with demonstration hives set up indoors? We > were wondering things like: > > How far are bees willing to travel, say through a plexiglass tube, to > reach the outdoors? > > How do they react to lighting of the hive interior (eg. through > plexiglass sides) or movement of people near the hive? > > Has anyone had success overwintering bees indoors (we're at > Lat. 44 00 00)? > > Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Please reply > directly to me, or to the list if you think your information may be of > wider interest. > > Thanks for your help. > > Calum Ewing > Registrar > Nova Scotia Museum of Natural History > E-mail: ewingcn@nsm.ednet.ns.ca > > URL: http://rs6000.nshpl.library.ns.ca/nsmuseum/summer.html > Twenty-five years ago while teaching elementary school in Columbia, Maryland I constructed my first of several observation hives for three different schools. I had an unusual situation (problem) to solve. The observation hive had to be in the Media Center which had no outside wall or windows. I was told to put the observation in the center of a large room on a table. The only outlet was straight up 15 feet through the ceiling and roof cut by the maintenence men. Using gray plastic water pipe one and one half inch in diameter, I fasten ed one end to the hive and the other had two elbows so no rain could fall in. The inverted C shape outlet and all joints were fastened by friction and screws for ease in removal and inspection. The hive made with one quarter plexiglass (thinner tends to concave and loses bee space) was two deep frames wide and three high with four vent holes, two on each end of the finished 2x4 lumber covered with window screen inside and heavy hardware cloth on the outside. The heavy duty outside was to prevent damage by students. All was set up the last of August and was stable on the table. The Ob. H. was charged at my home and set up in the Media Center and the trap door (a sheet of plastic )was opened and then the fun started. After a short time the bee started to go up the pipe and I could see they were blown down. What to do? I had some window screen and no tin shears so I used large school scissors to cut strips that were the length of the screen and fitted easily into the tube after the sections were stapled with school stapler. On the hot roof I dismantled the C section and inserted the screen strip down to the Ob. H. and the ladder worked. I painted the worker bees on the thorax and proved that my bees knew their home and the children observed and commented on it and on the fact that there was no queen. They watched the progress as well as the curious teachers of the bees construct two queen cells and the emerging queen that ruled the colony while the workers propolized enough of the four to their liking in the air conditioned school without the interior wall to divide each classroom. I proved in my first Ob. H. that bees will go a to unusual lengths (or heights) to gather nectar and pollen. The colony swarmed ? absconded ? the second season and the travelers returned much to the delight of the worried principal and bewildered me. I had a sugar feeding jar on top next to the exit pipe. Please excuse my typing errors. It seems my computer is duplicating some of my first sentences and making garbage of my typing. ************************************************ John Romanik BBKM #l03 3200 Pine Orchard Lane Ellicott City, Maryland 21042 email jr0002@epfl2.epflbalto.org 15 miles west of Baltimore 39 degrees north of the Equator *************************************************o.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 09:12:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Wayne E. Esaias" Subject: Holes, and obs. hive tips Thanks for the thoughtful comments on comm. holes, which tend to reinforce my opinion that they may be useful, but certainly are not necessary. I am curious that some see holes only at the top, and others only at the bottom. Either there are real differences out there in bees, (location?, race?) or perhaps systematic differences in hive/frame management that may produce the effect. I can offer three tips to the excellent comments on obs hives. First, 1 1/4 plastic sink drain pipes have nice slip type connectors, flexible sections, etc., which do a nice job for easily undoable but sturdy plumbing. Second, try to have a screened opening (a "T" connector) between the outer entrance and the hive to equalize air pressure. That prevents unwanted draughts in the hive itself. Third, "lazy susan" devices are available, which are pressure bearings with 2 inch holes in the middle. Their use makes it easy to put the entrance in the middle of the bottom or top, resulting in a rotatable hive, so viewers can easily look at both sides. When I have used such a hive for demonstrations, however, you have to watch out for chaps who want to see how fast they can make it go around! Installing frames with young eggs and larvae sans queen always produces a fascinating month of viewing (schools), as John Romanik points out. Having a well-marked queen is best for single visitations, like fairs and talks, where the full queen raising cycle cannot really be appreciated. A simple note like "The Queen has a [red] dot on her thorax" is all thats needed to instigate the hunt. IMHO (I hate that acronym!) every nature center should have an obs. hive. Beekeepers, lets get busy! Wayne Esaias Central Maryland. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 18:08:52 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: communication holes In-Reply-To: Hi all, Somthing that occurs to me about the holes in comb is that I think they occur pretty frequently in frames in hives, but much less so in wild comb. I wonder if the trigger for building the holes is therefore the obstruction caused by the frame itself, maybe agravated by the desire to build queen cells on the edges of the comb. I notice that queens do seem more often than not to use the holes to get from one side of the comb to the other -- maybe queens don't as a rule like leaving the wax to move around. Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 19:20:53 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Saw dust in front of hive Bill Hughs reports finding something that looks like sawdust in front of his hives, and asks what it might be. 1. It could actually be sawdust. Given the recent warm weather spell, some bees may have gone out foraging, and picked up some sawdust thinking it was pollen. Upon delivering the stuff to the hive, the rest of the bees promptly tried to get rid of the stuff. 2. The chewed-off cappings from the winter stores the bees are presently eating does look a lot like sawdust, and given that you found a lot of it inside the hive, I consider that to be the more likely explanation. I clean a fair pile of it off of most of my bottom boards each spring. You might want to look through the stuff for Varroa mites, which will look like brick-red oval pinheads. If you've never seen one up close and personal, bottom debris is a good place to look for them. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 02:47:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: stan sandler Subject: varroa and tracheal mites on non apis mellifera My sincerest apologies if I violate any group ettiquette; I am very new to the net. I have tried to find the answer to this question elsewhere, but without success. What other species of bee will support tracheal mites? What about varroa mites? You see, in my province, Prince Edward Island, we are still mite free, and an island that is closed to the importation of honey bees. However, blueberry growers here are importing alfalfa leafcutter bees and packages of bumble bees for pollination. Is it correct that these bees can not support mites because of temperature restrictions? If so, the colonies of bumblebees that have not come from a single overwintered queen (that is they are cultured), could they not have mites? Thankyou, Stan Sandler ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 09:56:27 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Morten Brixtofte Petersen Subject: Software Hello Thales! I could not find the rigt E-Mail adress in your mail so I hope to reach you here. I posted a request like yours (software to manage apiaires) to the BEE-L some weeks ago- and got no useful answers. In case you get som usefull information please let me know. I do however know of two Danish programs for managing apiaires, but I find them too expencive for my purpose. If you want more information on theese - please let me know. Regards Morten E-Mail: mp@kvl.dk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 15:59:50 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: F Hogenboom Subject: ...no subject... Stan Standler worries about varroatosis in non apis mellifera: quite rightly! >From a Dutch newspaper I remember a report of a bumblebee-nest with varroa mites. The problem is: in which way can non apis mellifera be infected by varroa mites? One possibility might be that robber (bumble) bees can bring OUT mites after 'visiting' a heavily infected honeybee colony. I don't think there are honeybees robbering bumblebee-nests. What about the role of alarmpheromones (and 1-octanol as most repellant substance)? A research from Germany indicates that varroa mites leave a honeybee when stung or contaminated with alarm-pheromones. Another question: do bumblebees really suffer from varroatosis; how long is the duration of the capped brood stage; do they have a cleaning-behaviour to cope with the mites, like apis cerana? Maybe there are some answers regards francois e-mail: F.Hogenboom.Pharm@med.vu.nl ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 09:10:14 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom_Elliott@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US Subject: Patience and Tolerance My apologies to the gentleman to whose comment I appeared to be intolerant: "a ll communication hole need to be on the bottom". My only desire was to have a chance to read the reasons behind your very brief answer. The only E-Mail address I can check is that of the list. Please, acceppt my appologies and explain your answer. My apology to you on the list for taking up time with this misunderstanding. Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska Tom_Elliott_at_ANCAV1@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 08:34:29 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- Dept. of Agriculture" Subject: Re: varroa and tracheal mites on non Apis mellifera In-Reply-To: <199601220647.CAA15467@bud.peinet.pe.ca> The original host for varroa was (and is) Apis cerana, a species native to subtropical and tropical Asia. The mite has been found in phoretic associations with other insect species (Diptera, other hymenopterans). Peter Kevan, of the University of Guelph, published a paper in Bee World a few years ago on varroa's hitchhiking rides on insects other than Apis spp. Tom Culliney culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 21:35:43 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RAUL JOSE VASCONCELLOS subscribe Bees - Wasps Raul Vasconcellos ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 00:18:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andrea Seymore (SAR)" Subject: Looking for a natural bee hive and beekeeping gear. I wrote a few months ago requesting suggestions for an interactive bee exhibit. Thank you for all the replies I received. I am hoping that some of you can help me once again. Does anyone know how I can find a natural honeybee hive that could be put on display? I personally have only seen them in pictures, and I assume that children are most familiar with the ones from which Pooh Bear thieves or those they might see in Honeycomb commercials. The opposition between natural and human-made hives would be interesting and educational. I was also wondering if someone might have some old beekeeping gear that they might be willing to donate to the children's museum. Children love the "costumes" and "toys" of adults. Although letting a child play with a smoker might not be the wisest choice of action, I think they would be enchanted with the opportunity to put on a beekeeper's gloves or netted head gear (pretreated for lice, of course). However, my knowledge and experience remain relatively limited, so I would appreciate any suggestions (or objections). I ask for a charitable contribution, because the Gulf Coast World of Science is a non-profit organization with limited funds. Thank-you for your attention. Sincerely, Andrea Seymore New College of USF in Sarasota, FL seymore@virtu.sar.usf.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:00:34 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Pearce Subject: Re: DNA from Bees Hi Kiyoshi / and everyone else, I have posted this to the list in case anyone else has any ideas, I write trembling in case my English is not up to the standard required for this list! My lab is involved with the distribution and evolution of Ty1-copia retrotransposons and the role these elements have in the evolution of eukaryotic genomes. Currently I am trying to develop these transposons as markers for genetic mapping studies, and using the amalysis of the populations to determine the relatedness of differrent species, and differrent isolations of the same species I am using a PCR based approach to look at Ty1-copia retrotransposons in plants. We use regions of the reverse transcriptase gene which is conserved accross the whole plant kingdom, and have recently discovered another region which is conserved throughout the plants and also through insects to the reptiles and amphibians. I should be able to test for sure wether Ty1-copia retrotransposons are present or absent in honeybees quite easily using this approach. I have access to bees, but have you (or anyone else out there) got a quick method for the production of a small amount of PCR grade DNA from a handful of bees. Thanks Steve Pearce (PhD) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 07:44:59 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BusyKnight Subject: Re: Looking for a natural bee hive and beekeeping gear. Dear Andrea, Howdy!! Good Tuesday morning to you lady. I'm a hobbiest beekeeper from Dallas, TX. FYI, most state laws prohibit a beekeeper from keeping a beehive that does not have removable frames. Being able to lift the honeycomb frames out of the hive (without damaging the hive) has been one of man's greatest im- provements to keeping bees and collecting honey. [Developed by a yankee preacher in the 1850's]. A "natural" beehive (as Pooh robs) in a tree would not have removable combs. The bees anchor the top of the combs to the tree structure. The health of the colony is improved when a beekeeper can actually pickup and inspect the cells and brood condition of the hive. BTW, it was a "bee tree" on my grandmother's farm back in Kentucky (where I'm from originally) that got me interested in bees when I was just a kid. You might find it interesting that I'm actually teaching a lady beekeeping over the internet (e-mail). I live in Texas and she lives on the eastern shore of Virginia. Where she is located there are no other beekeepers or beekeeping clubs around so she writes and asks questions and I write her back the answers. Obviously, she's reading books and magazines on the subject too! This coming Spring will be her first time to keep bees. (She's been building the hive bodies and frames all winter long). Good luck to you in your efforts to teach kids about nature (we need more people in the world like you!). Best wishes. Sincerely, ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 08:36:08 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Painter Subject: Bee flight/life FROM: BILL PAINTER 471-0747 NETWORK SUPPORT SUBJECT: Bee flight/life Can anyone answer two basic questions for me? What is the average distance that bees fly to collect pollen and what is the life span of the average worker bee? Thanks, Billp@billp.cdp.state.ne.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:29:59 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: DNA from Bees In-Reply-To: <4EFC3CC5520@bad.dundee.ac.uk> from "Steve Pearce" at Jan 23, 96 10:00:34 am Steve Pearce: I have done this work with RAPDs and have several protocols I could download for you on extracting DNA from Bees. Contact me direct: Diana Sammataro, Ph.D. OARDC/Extension Honey Bee Lab The Ohio State University 1680 Madison Ave. Wooster, OH 44691 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:35:35 -0500 Reply-To: Mason Harris Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris To Subject: Demo >Subject: Comic Relief > >>Bill Gates dies in a car accident. He finds himself in purgatory, being >sized up by St. Peter. > >"Well, Bill, I'm really confused on this call; I'm not sure whether to send >you to Heaven or Hell. After all, you enormously helped society by putting a >computer in almost every home in America, yet you also created that ghastly >Windows '95. I'm going to do something I've never done before in your case; >I'm going to let you decide where you want to go." > >Bill replied, "well, what's the difference between the two?" > >St. Peter said, "I'm willing to let you visit both places briefly, if it >will help your decision." > >"Fine, but where should I go first?" > >"I'll leave that up to you." > >"Okay then," said Bill, "Let's try Hell first." > >So Bill went to Hell. It was a beautiful, clean, sandy beach with clear >waters and lots of bikini-clad women running around, playing in the water, >laughing and frolicking about. The sun was shining; the temperature >perfect. He was very pleased. > >"This is great!" he told St. Peter. "If this is hell, I REALLY want to see >heaven!" > >"Fine," said St. Peter, and off they went. > >Heaven was a place high in the clouds, with angels drifting about, playing >harps and singing. It was nice, but not as enticing as Hell. > >Bill thought for a quick minute, and rendered his decision. > >"Hmmm. I think I'd prefer Hell," he told St. Peter. > >"Fine," retorted St. Peter, "as you desire." > >So Bill Gates went to Hell. > >Two weeks later, St. Peter decided to check on the late billionaire to see >how he was doing in Hell. When he got there, he found Bill, shackled to a >wall, screaming amongst hot flames in dark caves, being burned and tortured >by demons. > >"How's everything going?" he asked Bill. > >Bill responded, with his voice filled with anguish and disappointment, "This >is awful! This is nothing like the Hell I visited two weeks ago! I can't >believe this is happening! What happened to that other place, with the >beautiful beaches, the scantily-clad women playing in the water?!??? > >"That was a demo," replied St. Peter. Mason D. Harris, MA,MST, CCC-A Department of Audiology San Mateo County Office of Education ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 13:26:06 -0500 Reply-To: Mason Harris Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: Apologies Dear Bee-L folks, Please accept my apology for the "Comic Relief/Gates" post to the list. It was a slip of the keyboard. I was broadcasting the post to friends and did not realize I had included the Bee-L in the list. I know it should not have happened. Sorry. Mason D. Harris, MA,MST, CCC-A Department of Audiology San Mateo County Office of Education ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:08:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: January issue of APIS Distributed to: USR:[MTS]INTERNET.DIS;82 FILENAME: JANAPIS.96 Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter Apis--Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764) Volume 14, Number 1 January 1996 HONEY QUALITY IN THE TROPICS What is the best honey? That's an often-asked question for which there is no pat response. Answers can range from a short retort to a lengthy description. Honey quality lies in the eye of the beholder and taster. It's subjective in so many ways. That's why I don't enjoy judging honey shows. For a more in-depth discussion of this see ENY 129, Honey Judging and Standards. I will mail out copies on request while they last. Honey quality also is a matter of tradition. If one looks at apiculturally related activity in Europe, for example, a good deal of effort goes into researching honey quality and each country has a rigorous testing procedure. In the United States, however, honey quality often takes a back seat to management and other industry issues. A periodic publication on the Internet by Andrew Matheson, director of the International Bee Research Association (IBRA), reveals some current European thinking on honey quality. In December, Mr. Matheson attended a meeting on tropical honey organized by the group NECTAR, the Netherlands Expertise Centre for Tropical Apicultural Resources. Established in 1990, this non- profit association is a focus for people in the Netherlands working in tropical beekeeping and bee science (of whom there are quite a few). Speakers from nine different countries and a varied audience pooled their knowledge and experience promoting considerable discussion on the harvest, composition, processing, storage and marketing of honey in tropical apicultural systems. Because Florida lies in the subtropics, many of the issues addressed are also of concern in the Sunshine State. They are also important for those who would like to keep abreast of developments in the export market. Moisture: One of the biggest problems facing beekeepers in tropical areas is high water content in honey. This can push the product over the legal limit in many countries, according to Mr. Matheson. It also may be responsible for fermentation. However, Mr. Matheson continues, in some cases a high-moisture product, and even a fermenting one, is desirable. If marketing is (in simple terms) producing what the consumer wants, then fermenting honey can sometimes fit the bill. In some countries fermentation is a sign of honey's freedom from adulteration, unlike what Mr. Matheson calls that "squeaky-clean imported stuff" which has a dubious reputation for purity. In general, however, high water content is a problem for potential honey exporters, and often creates storage problems, Mr. Matheson says. Kwame Aidoo of Ghana gave the results of a small survey of honey being sold by 40 beekeepers who use top-bar hives. The average water content was 21.4% (range 17.6-24.0%). The water content can depend on season and region. It also varies with the plant species and even the kind of bee used. As an example, the water content of Apis cerana honey in Vietnam was reported as follows: eucalyptus 27%, longan 24% and jujuba 23.5%. Apis dorsata honey came in at 28%, while Apis florea was 32.2%; the latter two were observed four months after harvest, but unfortunately the details of the storage conditions were not supplied. And at times, Mr. Matheson concludes, it is impossible for bees to dry honey adequately. Although Mr. Matheson did not mention it, when the bees fail to take out the moisture, it may be time for the beekeeper to step in. Honey producers in Canada have been leaders in developing methods to dry honey in storage. Many even take the crop before it is capped and finish the drying job indoors. I published a resume of one technique in the fact sheet number ENY 130 entitled Moisture in Honey. Copies are still available on request. Other Quality Measures: The European market, according the Mr. Matheson, is especially sensitive to several quality parameters, especially diastase and HMF levels. Unfortunately, testing for these materials is somewhat expensive, particularly for developing countries. And sometimes basic analyses for sucrose content, even water content, are beyond the reach of some agencies. This could all change, however, thanks to work reported by J. D. Kerkvliet of the Netherlands, Mr. Matheson says. A series of five analytical methods, low in cost and simple to carry out, has been developed to check for: * Water content; * Invert sugars and sucrose; * HMF; * Pollen and sugar cane plant cells; and * Enzyme levels; These methods were developed as part of a Dutch-Nepalese project. After they were implemented in Nepal, there was significant improvement in honey quality. Mr. Matheson thinks those that analyze for pollen and enzyme levels are especially valuable tests that almost anyone can use to advantage. To test for cane sugar adulteration, for example, honey is centrifuged and examined microscopically. Even a few percent of cane sugar added will result in visible amounts of characteristic parenchyma, slereid and epidermal cells, as well as simple rings from ring vessels, originating from the sugar cane stem. The test is not 'fooled' by bees foraging on the cut stumps of sugar cane. This method was written up in Apidologie 26: 131-139 (1995). For HMF, Mr. Matheson says, a relatively inexpensive 'Merckoquant' peroxide test strip can also be used to check for the presence of hydrogen peroxide in a honey solution. If peroxide production is at least 10 micrograms per gram per hour at 20 degrees C, then HMF is less than or equal to 40 mg/kg (with a 95% confidence level) and might even be below 20 mg/kg. Unfortunately this method has been written up only in Dutch (with an English summary): [Screening method for the determination of glucose oxidase activity in honey.] Ware(n)chemicus 24: 160-163 (1994). Dr Kerkvliet told Mr. Matheson he plans to write a paper on this in English. Fair Trade in Tropical Honey: Many may have seen 'fair trade' products, especially in Europe, according to Mr. Matheson. Coffee and chocolate are the usual products, but honey has now been added to this mix. This market segment is rapidly growing, and represents a real opportunity for beekeepers in some tropical countries. Mr. Matheson gave an overview of a presentation by Jos. Harmsen of the Max Havelaar/Trans Fair Seal organization. Mr. Matheson says it's important to realize that the Max Havelaar organization doesn't sell honey itself; it is a quality assurance body, promoting the 'fair trade' seal to consumers. It controls the licensees who use the seal and keeps a register of producers. The 'fair trade' seal system goes under the Max Havelaar name in the Netherlands, Trans Fair in some other European countries and Fair Trade in the UK. The concept began a few years ago, Mr. Matheson says, but the products were sold only in aid shops or health food outlets so market share was destined to remain small. However, the Max Havelaar organization, formed in 1988 based on coffee, now appears in 90 percent of supermarkets; in 1993 chocolate was added and honey in 1994. The organization works in 12 European countries now, and will be moving into two more during 1996. What constitutes fair trade? The Max Havelaar organization has developed a number of criteria, according to Mr. Matheson. It recommends buying directly from organizations of small beekeepers that are democratically run, thus giving producers a say in how the trade is conducted. And it emphasizes paying a fair price, which for honey is currently $US 1,550/tonne f.o.b. with a premium of $US 2000/ton for certified organic honey. It gives access to credit facilities, with up to 60 percent of the contract price available up front if requested, and enters into long-term contracts to ensure security for the producers. The 'fair trade' seal can be used on retail containers only if all the honey contained in them meets all these criteria, Mr. Matheson says. From promoting honey only in the Netherlands in 1994, and only there and in Switzerland in 1995, 330 tonnes of honey was sold under the Max Havelaar/Trans Fair label in 1995. With modest growth in those markets and the addition of Germany, the volume for 1996 is expected to reach 1,100 tonnes. Honey is the responsibility of the German office of the Max Havelaar/Trans Fair Seal organization: TransFair International, Am Ochsenberg 16, D-73614 Schorndorf, email tfi@oln.comlink.apc.org, fax (+49) 7181-65546, phone (+49) 7181-65417. Using the best evidence available, according to Mr. Matheson, only about 17 percent of the world's honey is produced in the tropics. There are several major problems involved: 1. World market prices are low; domestic prices are usually higher. 2. Only high volume is deemed exportable; few have the wherewithal to produce honey in quantity. 3. High water content, foreign matter such as impurities from the hive or the harvesting method, and adulteration with cane sugar are also potential problems. 4. HMF and diastase may also be elevated because of high temperatures. In spite of the problems, Mr. Matheson says, opportunities exist to increase trade. They are: 1) activities of the 'fair trade' organizations mentioned above and 2) the rise in organic honey. The latter, Mr. Matheson says, is growing in popularity. And it's no longer a matter of producing honey in untouched forested areas and slapping on an 'organic' label. Both producing and processing operations must be certified by an organization recognized in the end market (such as the Soil Association in the UK, Naturland in Germany and the VSBLO in Switzerland). Requirements vary between certifying bodies, but for honey they typically include these: * Bees must forage only in organically cultivated or natural vegetation that has been free of pesticides for at least two years; * There should be no conventionally farmed land within 6 km; * The colony should not be destroyed at harvest; * Only organically produced beeswax may be used in foundation; * No instrumental insemination is permitted; * No artificial products may be used for feeding the bees, nor any drugs administered; and * Finally, there are rules about packaging and processing. Accreditation for organic marketing doesn't come cheaply, according to Mr. Matheson. It involves a field visit for an African country--although some costs can be shared if several producers are applying-- plus several hundred dollars per year membership fee and a levy of 1 percent on sales. But the market is growing strongly, and is probably around 500 tons/year. REMINDER ABOUT 4-H ESSAYS Remember that 4-H Essays are due by February 12, 1996 and they must be forwarded to this office by a 4-H worker or official. See the September 1995 Apis for more details. MEETINGS IN FLORIDA Several bee meetings will be taking place in Florida in February: 1. February 10, 1996 will mark the second annual Empire State Honey Producers Association meeting in Florida at Archbold Biological Station south of Lake Placid. The phone number is 813/465-2571. 2. Two workshops are planned at the Clay County Cooperative Extension Service building west of Green Cove Springs, 2463 State Road, 16W. One for "beginners" is scheduled Saturday, February 17, 8:30 to 5:00. The other for "more advanced" beekeepers will be the next Saturday, February 24. Interested persons can attend both if sessions if they wish. There is a $10/person fee, which includes a catered lunch. Reservations for both workshops must be in hand by February 15, 1996. For more information, call 904/269-6355, 904/284-6355 or 904/473-3711. Sincerely, Malcolm T. Sanford Bldg 970, Box 110620 University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Phone (352) 392-1801, Ext. 143 FAX: 352-392-0190 Address: MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU APIS on the World Wide Web-- http://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/apis/apis.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:14:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Looking for a natural bee hive and beekeeping gear. In-Reply-To: Hello Andrea- the so called natural hive as depicted in pooh or in many advertisements is not a bee hive at all. Usually depicted are some type of hornet or yellow jacket nest. There is no natural outward form to a beehive. In nature, honeybees use any convenient cavity such as a hollow tree. The most familiar hive to many people is the skep hive. These are usually dome shaped and made of braided straw. Some are still in use but only by traditionalists. They are illeagal to keep in many states because they cannot easily be inspected for foulbrood disease. Also I don't know if there is a natural method to control varroa mites in these hives. Check with your apiary inspectors if you wish to try a skep, some states allow their use in certain situations. Good luck- bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb b b b Vince & Carole Coppola vcoppola@epix.net b b Coppola Apiaries, (716)965-2904 b b 10220 Bradigan Rd. b b Forestville, N.Y. 14062 b b b b Western New York Beekeepers Association b b b bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:28:29 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Veldhuis Subject: ATTN: Dance Language Experts In-Reply-To: <199502241627.KAA06362@electra.cc.umanitoba.ca> from "Gerry Rising" at Feb 24, 95 11:25:50 am ATTN: All Honeybee dance language experts. When you have a moment, perhaps you could consider the following. There is no urgency to the matter.=20 Jonathan Bennett (a philosopher) thought that (given the Dance Language theory), bees would accept any dance as correct, even if it was obviously false. That is, even if the direction and distance conflicted with their knowledge of the local terrain, the bees would still fly out of the hive towards the place indicated in response to the false dance.=20 Gould + Gould tried to test this with their "lake" experiments, and the results were somewhat inconclusive. I still wonder if there is a plausibl= e test after all.=20 Here is the background information I assume in the design:=20 (discussion welcome here, but I am aware of all the problems the DL theory is purported to have. I'm trying to do an internal consistency test here; that is, _Assuming_ the DL theory, what is the expected resul= t of the following test).=20 1. Bees indicate distance and direction through the dance. =20 2. The distance indicated is a function of the distance flown, _and_ the race of bee dancing. (that is, carnolians indicate distance differently than Italians). =20 3. At any time in the hive, certain bees function as foragers, others as scouts. Scout bees tend to be older than foragers, but this is a functio= n of hive population, etc.=20 Here is the experiment: 1. Make up a colony of =BD purebred Italians, and =BD purebred carnolian= , make sure the origin of the bee is obvious, either by colour, or by marking the bees in some way.=20 2. Do the standard Dance Language tests, however you should observe:=20 3. If a Italian scout dances, the italian foragers should arrive at the indicated place, while the carnolians arrive at some place farther from the hive. If a carnolian scout dances, the carnolians arrive at the indicated place, the italians fall short.=20 Anticipated possible problems:=20 1. The hive quickly solves its semantic problems by some correction measure so that all bees dance the same.=20 2. The dance-language information and the bee=92s resulting actions isn=92= t precise enough to measure any difference between the bees of different races.=20 Does this seem plausible and do-able to anyone? Comments? Has it already been done? I appreciate your time. Phil --=20 ------------oooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo------------- Phil Veldhuis | If I must be a fool, as all those who reason Winnipeg. MB, Canada | or believe any thing certainly are, my follies veldhui@cc.umanitoba.ca | shall at least be natural and agreeable. David Hume (1739) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:57:03 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: ATTN: Dance Language Experts >Here is the experiment: > >1. Make up a colony of =87 purebred Italians, and =87 purebred carnolian, >make sure the origin of the bee is obvious, either by colour, or by >marking the bees in some way. > >2. Do the standard Dance Language tests, however you should observe: > >3. If a Italian scout dances, the italian foragers should arrive at the >indicated place, while the carnolians arrive at some place farther from >the hive. If a carnolian scout dances, the carnolians arrive at the >indicated place, the italians fall short. > > >Anticipated possible problems: > >1. The hive quickly solves its semantic problems by some correction >measure so that all bees dance the same. > >2. The dance-language information and the bee=EDs resulting actions isn=EDt >precise enough to measure any difference between the bees of different >races. > >Does this seem plausible and do-able to anyone? Comments? >Has it already been done? I could swear I heard Fred Dyer give a talk at the University of Kansas on this issue a few years back - with mixed colonies of mellifera and cerana, or something along those lines - and that he did in fact get bees flying inappropriate distances when following scouts of the "wrong" type. Anyone care to confirm or deny that this is what Fred found while he was in Asia? Another little nagging voice tells me Tom Seeley may know about this, too. Ah, going senile at 34... ;-) Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:00:22 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Looking for a natural bee hive and beekeeping gear. In-Reply-To: <199601231344.HAA15444@server.iadfw.net> On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, BusyKnight wrote: > FYI, most state laws prohibit a beekeeper from keeping a beehive > that does not have removable frames. Being able to lift the > honeycomb frames out of the hive (without damaging the hive) > has been one of man's greatest improvements to keeping bees > and collecting honey. .... A natural honey-bee nest would normally be inside some kind of cavity like a tree trunk, roofspace, cave or the like. There is a type of hive used in Africa and a number of other places, known as a top-bar hive, where the combs are drawn down from just a top bar and there are no complete frames as in a conventional western hive. If you want to follow up the 'natural hive' idea, you could investigate the principles of the top-bar and interpret into a natural-like hive. Maybe a hollowed out log or similar? This would enable the combs to be removed for inspections whilst maintaining a natural look. ============================ {} (%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%) {} {} (%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%) | {} (%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%) | <-- window { (%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%) | { \________________/ } ___________________ -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:37:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles Grubbs Subject: Moving Bees -- [ From: Charles Grubbs * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- I have an old eight frame hive that I got from a friend, the frames and hive body are in terrible shape. I want to move the bees into a new 10 frame hive as soon as possible, but with as little disturbance to the bees as possible. The eight frame consists of 2 hive bodies, and as mentioned before the frames are practically welded together. I was reading in the book The Hive and The Honeybee from Dadant, and it said that to move bees from a hive that there might be a danger of killing the queen in, you could place a hive body on top of the old one and use the bottom board on top, and close off the bottom entrance to the old hive, then beat on the side of the old hive bodies and attempt to drive the bees into the new hive. My question is will this work, and are there any other methods that might work better. ********************************* * Charles (Rick) Grubbs * * digital@avana.net * * Douglasville, Ga SE USA * ********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:53:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: ga14 Subject: Re: Looking for a natural bee hive and beekeeping gear. In-Reply-To: Hi Andrea The natural bee hives you are asking about would most likely be tree cavities. Bees in this part of the world don't build nests on exposed limbs. Two nature centers I've been associated with in the past had developed simulated Bee Trees. The concept used a hollow tree trunk, sealed and moved indoors. A long opening was cut in the tree and it was fitted with a long plexiglass window. Inside the hollow trunk, a slotted frame was attached to hold the standard hive frames. In this way, the colony could be inspected for disease and frames of honey or brood could be added as needed. The effect of seeing the bees in the tree trunk fascinated visitors. If you would like to discuss this design further, please contact me at my direct email address. Happy to be of assistance Regards Gordy ********************************************** Gordon Allen-Wardell Extension Apiculturist Department of Entomology University of Maryland College Park, MD 20742-5575 301 405 3953 email ga14@umail.umd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 20:39:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stephen Reddick Subject: Re: Saw Dust, From Where? "Mr William L Hughs Jr" Wrote 20 Jan 96 >Subject: Re: Saw dust in front of hive >When I inspected my colonies today one of the had what appeared to be >sawdust. It was like wet wood mixed with yellow flakes. It was >nearly blocking the entrance and was on the ground in front of the >hive. My other colonies do not have this. This is my first winter >keeping bees and I have not send a reference to this in any of the >books I have. Does anyone have any ideas what this might be, and do >I need to be concerned. Just a guess , but I have seen and heard on warm winter days, (about Freezing Point), little piles of saw Dust beside old logs and a chewing sound coming from the wood. With close inspection, directly above the saw dust were small holes (about 1/16"). There were small wood grubs of some sort in there chewing up the wood and pushing it out. It would in turn leave a small pile of wood on the snow below the hole. if you are quiet for a minute they will start chewing agian ,it is loud for a little bug. Maybe this will help. ************************************** * Stephen. Reddick * * Barrie, Ontario, Canada * * http://www.sunrise@barint.on.ca * ************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:59:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "T.G. Paschall, Jr." Subject: Natural bee hive >Gordy Allen-Wardell wrote: >......Bees in this part of the world don't build nests on exposed >limbs......... I'm new to beekeeping (I'm in the process of assembling 2 hives for this spring). Gordy's statement has me wondering about something I saw about 3 years ago. I have a red oak 20 yards or so from my house. The lowest limb, 8 to 10 feet from the ground, is about 5 to 10 degrees above horizontal. A swarm of bees built three combs (about 12 x 18 inches)on the underside of the limb near the trunk. They drew out the combs and then disappeared. I removed the combs and found none capped, no larvae, and as far as I could tell, no eggs. The tree is in full sun and the canopy provides only broken shade at best. Is it that odd to see wild bees do this? Did I see something extraordinary without realizing it? ------------------------------------- | Thomas G. Paschall, Jr. | | Beech Island, South Carolina USA | | tgp@csranet.com | ------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:50:10 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: krengel lawrence e Subject: Re: Natural bee hive In-Reply-To: <199601240259.VAA19133@csranet.com> Gordy- It sometimes happens that a swarm settles on a tree and does not successfully - and quickly - find a new nest sight. they may begin setting up housekeeping in unusual places... sometimes even under eves or I have even heard of comb being built in the isle of a barn. It is obviously not a good situation for the colony, and they are likely to move on when the opportunity presents itself. Now that you are a beekeeper, you will love to hive these "free bees." Larry Marengo, IL On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, T.G. Paschall, Jr. wrote: > >Gordy Allen-Wardell wrote: > >......Bees in this part of the world don't build nests on exposed > >limbs......... > > I'm new to beekeeping (I'm in the process of assembling 2 hives for this > spring). Gordy's statement has me wondering about something I saw about 3 > years ago. I have a red oak 20 yards or so from my house. The lowest limb, 8 > to 10 feet from the ground, is about 5 to 10 degrees above horizontal. > > A swarm of bees built three combs (about 12 x 18 inches)on the underside of > the limb near the trunk. They drew out the combs and then disappeared. I > removed the combs and found none capped, no larvae, and as far as I could > tell, no eggs. > > The tree is in full sun and the canopy provides only broken shade at best. > Is it that odd to see wild bees do this? Did I see something extraordinary > without realizing it? > ------------------------------------- > | Thomas G. Paschall, Jr. | > | Beech Island, South Carolina USA | > | tgp@csranet.com | > ------------------------------------- > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:45:08 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: varroa and tracheal mites on non apis mellifera In-Reply-To: On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, F Hogenboom wrote: > Stan Standler worries about varroatosis in non apis mellifera: > quite rightly! > > > From a Dutch newspaper I remember a report of a bumblebee-nest > > with varroa mites. > > The problem is: in which way can non apis mellifera be infected > by varroa mites? One possibility might be that robber (bumble) > bees can bring OUT mites after 'visiting' a heavily infected > honeybee colony. I don't think there are honeybees robbering > bumblebee-nests. As I understand it, the only known hosts of varroa jacobsoni are apis cerana (the original host) and apis mellifera. Although other insects can act as transport, none are known as hosts. By far the biggest cause of long-distance spread of varroa is movement of honeybees, deliberately or accidently, from one area to another. The most likely causes of arrival on an island are either importation of honeybees, or swarms/feral colonies arriving on ships. Sadly, it's not so much a case of if varroa arrives anywhere, more a case of when. The first year or three after discovery can be a nasty shock as the situation goes from 'just found' to serious. Only three years after the discovery here (UK) of varroa, we have beekeepers who have lost 40% of their colonies because they didn't take varroa seriously enough. Most now know better and will be ready next year, but some *still* think wasps (yellowjackets) were to blame by robbing colonies to death. Take the opportunity you have now to prepare. Our (UK) Bumblebees are so benign that I personally am sceptical that they rob honeybee colonies (unless maybe the latter are already right at the point of collapse). If varroa does get onto them, I suspect that they get picked up by bee-to-bee contact on flowers rather than by nest interactions. Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 06:43:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Justin Spaulding III Subject: Re: Natural bee hive In-Reply-To: <199601240259.VAA19133@csranet.com> On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, T.G. Paschall, Jr. wrote: > >Gordy Allen-Wardell wrote: > >......Bees in this part of the world don't build nests on exposed > >limbs......... > > > A swarm of bees built three combs (about 12 x 18 inches)on the underside of > the limb near the trunk. They drew out the combs and then disappeared. I > removed the combs and found none capped, no larvae, and as far as I could > tell, no eggs. > Thomas, What you probably saw was where a swarm had rested for several days while in search of a more appropriate site. Beleive it or not that much comb can be produced in 2-3 days. then when a suitable nesting site is found they move on. Sometimes the bees don't find anything better and will stay exposed. A local DPW crew pointed out a hive on an oak tree attached to a limb 60 foot up ~ 15ft. from the trunk of the tree. The hive was about18"x18"x20". It seemed to be doing fine until winter came along. Natural selection in action. John Spaulding Associate Curator, Wildlife Center juggler@nesc.org New England Science Center ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 11:42:49 +0000 Reply-To: P.Wright@ed.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Wright Subject: Re: ATTN: Dance Language Experts One of my students attempted a replication of the Gould lake experiemnt last summer. We reasoned that there were sufficient problems with flying over water (disturbing polarization cues from lake reflectance; turbulence air currents & bees drowning etc) which might explain Gould's result withou entertaining advanced cognitive map type hypotheses.We therefore repeated the experiment but chose to locate our food source in a barren area (ploughed field) which remained so for the entire summer and was regularly checked for presence of any nectar yieding plants. We found no evidence that bees could not be easily recruited to such a site through the dance language, despite it being a natural 'desert' and on any cognitive map hypothesis be discounted by experienced bees as no point in looking there. As to your proposed experiment, I certainly doubt whether there would be any semantic accommodation, the parameters of the dance are surely genetically fixed and the bees cannot learn to adjust these. I do seem to vaguely recall an old paper. perhaps by von Frisch, talking about dialects in bees, and which describes precisely the situation you envisage with two strains united and therefore miss communicating with each other. Also as bees age, they also overestimate distance flown, and therefore will indicate a point further away than the source is. This of course may not matter, as younger recruits following the correct compass direction, and searching for a particular scent, may happen on the source anyway. The problem would be more likely for the old bee dancing and followed by the younger recruit. I would be most interested to have the refernce for your philosopher?? Hope this is of some help. Peter Wright ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 08:00:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: bumblebee management Can someone give me information on sources of bumblebees and any management tips for using them for greenhouse crop pollination? I have a request for information from a greenhouse strawberry producer. Thanks, Bill Lord Louisburg, NC -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 08:05:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: OSB I just got a good deal on some OSB (oriented strand board) and was wondering if anyone has any experience in using it for hive applications. I am concered about it taking up moisture and swelling and delaminating. I know it caused a lot of problems in Florida when exposed to rain on roofs during hurricaines because it swelled and popped the staples out of the framing. As an aside, my forestry colleagues tell me that plywood is going to go the way of the dinosaurs as no new plywood plants are being built, but OSB is the wave of the future, in part because it uses smaller and poorer quality trees. Any comments appreciated. Bill Lord Louisburg, NC -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:30:47 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Queen Pheromones Hello Gentlepeople With snow on the ground and the bees all clustered up for winter.I'm taking on a project and have had a hard time finding some information. I would appreciate information on any research which determined a mean level of (E_)-9-Hydroxy-decenoic acid (9-HDA) and (E_)-9-oxo-2-decenoic acid (9-ODA) in queen bees.I want to quantify the levels so new queens may be tested for 9-ODA and 9-HDA.If any researcher has used this to determine the acceptability of a new queen to a hive. I have read many papers and have not found much more than the queen has the compounds and uses them to control different behaviors of the workers. Its much more complex than just two compounds.In Bee Genetics and Breeding By Dr. Rinderer 1986,he has me looking at what genetic variability we have in our queens, that controls there pheromone level. Thank you for your time. Roy Nettlebeck Tahuya River Apiaries Tahuya Wash. 98588 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:17:42 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mick Mayhew Subject: Apistan Here in the UK we have a problem with Varroa control. The only chemical treatment which is approved for sale is Bayvarol which is expensive. It is legal to use Apistan but only if we go to another EU country to buy it. I would like to alternate Bayvarol and Apistan to reduce the chance of builing up resistance. Does anyone have a list of Apistan stockists near the Channel ports where it would be convenient for returning holiday makers to stock up? ..................... Mick Mayhew Associate Dean School of Mathematical and Information Sciences mayhew@coventry.ac.uk 01203-838910 ..................... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 09:26:35 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Bee "language" exp. - 2 After sending off the last message, one that directed interested subscribers to study my bee language abstract in the December issue of the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL, I remembered that some people don't have ready access to that publication. For efficiency, I provide a modified version of that abstract below: ********* Wenner, A. M. (1995) - HONEY BEE RECRUITMENT TO FOOD: TANGIBLE ODOR-SEARCH OR MYSTICAL LANGUAGE? (An abstract modified from one appearing in the December issue of the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL): A recent claim (Webster & Caron, 1995, Bee Culture 123:403-406): "The evidence for dance language is strong," ignored 13 salient points published 21 years earlier in the same publication (Wells & Wenner, 1974, Gleanings in Bee Culture 102:110-111,127). I update, expand upon, and add to those points here. 1) The dance maneuver information is not sufficiently accurate to account for supportive experimental results obtained by language proponents; rather, the experimental designs used by them apparently funnel recruits into "intended" sites. 2) Von Frisch recognized in 1937 (Wenner, with von Frisch, 1993,Bee World 74:90-98) - that one gets no recruits with no odor. 3) However, von Frisch (and others at the time) failed to perceive that his 1940s experiments lacked necessary controls against odor influencing results; later, his hypothesis did not survive tests in double-controlled and strong inference experiments. 4) Only by using odor in single controlled experiments can one obtain supportive results. Therefore, one can no longer justifiably explain "positive" results with an uncritical assumption of "language" use. 5) Recruit search behavior is remarkably inefficient. Most recruits require several flights out from the hive before locating the target food source, are in the air many times longer than necessary for a direct flight from the hive, and succeed only rarely unless one provides sufficient odor cues at the food site. 6) One can easily see (especially with binoculars) that recruits always fly zigzag into a target site from far downwind and not directly from the hive. 7) If an array of stations is provided, recruits end up near the center of all as expected mathematically - although a slight wind blowing along a line of stations can alter a predictable distribution. 8) Despite dancing, recruitment more than 400m downwind from a hive is negligible unless many foragers make round trips and thereby provide an aerial pathway of odor [and use landmarks while travelling back and forth]. 9) Crop-attached bees require no dancing for re-recruitment; they will immediately return to their foraging area on the basis of an odor stimulus alone. 10) New recruits, by contrast, do not begin arriving in quantity until almost an hour after foragers begin regular trips. 11) [The arrival rate of recruits] then increases in frequency per unit time even if the number of dancing bees is held constant. 12) Recruit success is thus dependent more upon the cumulative number of forager trips (with time and with odor accumulation in the hive) than upon the number of foragers involved. 13) Success rate depends upon odor concentration but not upon Nasonov gland secretions at the food source or upon dance frequency in the hive. Finally, recruits attending disoriented dances (dances without direction information) can still find the "correct" site in the field. 14) No one seems to dispute the above known facts, so clearly researchers have grossly neglected the role of odor in honey bee recruitment. 15) Furthermore, no one seems any longer willing to provide a concise scientific statement of the language hypothesis, one that can accommodate all known facts. 16) For those who wish to understand foraging ecology, an increased emphasis on the role of odor in honey bee recruitment should be very rewarding For summaries of the above points, see Wenner & Wells, 1990, Anatomy of a Controversy: The Question of a "Language" Among Bees (Columbia University Press) and a more concise clarification elsewhere (Wenner, Meade, and Friesen, 1991, American Zoologist 31:768-782). ******** No one, then, should be surprised at a comment made to me a year ago: "I no longer work with bee language --- too much is uncertain." *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *"Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, but to * * think what no one else has thought." - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 11:07:58 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Bee "language" exp. - 2 I figured it was just a matter of time until we heard from you on this. I remember reading 'The Bee Language Controversy' many years ago. In fact I think I have a copy. I've always found the debate fascinating, although I don't feel well enough informed to take a side. I suppose, though that it is pretty important to use commercial guys to understand how bees find crops. It is certainly beneficial to challenge the dance theory and you do a very good job. Many people have a lot invested in believing the dance hypothesis. Being a sceptic, myself, I find it an interesting theory that adds to the mystery of bees. here's my question: I wonder - just out of curiosity - what, in your thinking, is the explanation of the dancing that is readily observed, and what (if anything) is its function? And another: What are the implications in practice? I can see that if there is no dance language, that we should likey pay a lot more attention to making sure the bees can easily find the crop. Am I right? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 17:15:36 PST Reply-To: Glyn Davies Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Healing Powers of Propolis Greetings Bee-L People, A group of Beekeepers in South Devon UK are inceasingly interested in the curative and healing properties of Propolis. Does anyone have personal experiences, anecdotes or recipes for the use of this curious substance? Better still is there any recorded medical research from Western Universities/Medical Centres? The only book I have was published in 1978 in Bucharest by Apimondia and contains some remarkable conclusions from experiments in Eastern European countries during the Communist era. Best Wishes, Buzz@mail.zynet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:53:46 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Bee "language" exp. - 2 >From Adrian, in response to Allen Dick's questions: >I figured it was just a matter of time until we heard from you [Adrian] on >this. > >I remember reading 'The Bee Language Controversy' many years ago. In >fact I think I have a copy. I've always found the debate >fascinating, although I don't feel well enough informed to take a >side. Unless I am mistaken, you refer to the 1971 book I wrote. The message of that book stands, but Patrick Wells and I published a more extensive treatment of the subject in 1990, as referred to in the abstract sent this morning (and below). >I suppose, though that it is pretty important to us commercial guys >to understand how bees find crops. I think it terribly important to understand the ecology of foraging better. However, with the advent of the dance language hypothesis, interest in the importance of wind disappeared. That is a shame, because odors can only travel downwind. On this score, we have retreated to the Dark Ages. I hope soon to write a review of the importance of wind in colony foraging. John Eckert, for example, published excellent data in the early 1930s. Unfortunately, his results were in tables, something scientists seem loath to study. >It is certainly beneficial to challenge the dance theory and you do >a very good job. Thank you! >Many people have a lot invested in believing the >dance hypothesis. Being a sceptic, myself, I find it an interesting >theory that adds to the mystery of bees. > >Here's my question: > >I wonder - just out of curiosity - what, in your thinking, is the >explanation of the dancing that is readily observed, and what (if >anything) is its function? Two pitfalls damage scientific efforts perhaps more than any other factors. (Each of us can only do experimentation on the basis of our own indoctrination --- unless we realize the full extent of that indoctrination.) Those two pitfalls are anthropomorphism (giving human attributes to the animal or plant we study) and teleology (assuming all actions have a function --- usually as created by God). Whenever one uses the expression, "in order to," or an abbreviated form, "to," function is implied. As scientists, though, we must remain uncertain about whether we will ever know a "function." We treated this problem fully in our book, ANATOMY OF A CONTROVERSY (Excursus TEL: Teleology --- pp. 362-366). >And another: > >What are the implications in practice? I can see that if there is >no dance language, that we should likey pay a lot more attention to >making sure the bees can easily find the crop. Am I right? I would say, "Right on!" Aside from its publicity value, I cannot see any real benefit for beekeepers of the dance language hypothesis in its five decades of existence. That says a lot in itself. By contrast, by understanding the role of wind in foraging patterns better, wise placement of colonies can aid in pollination and crop harvesting for beekeepers. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *"Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, but to * * think what no one else has thought." - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:24:16 +1259 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Murray Reid Subject: Healing Powers of Propolis -Reply Comments: To: buzz@mail.zynet.co.uk Glyn was asking for sources of information on propolis: You could try ; * 'The Propolis Information Bureau, Templegarth Trust, Middlegate, Manby, Louth, Lincolnshire, LNI I8EB (UK ) Fax (1507) 328942.' * Bee Health Ltd , Racecourse Rd, East Ayton, Scarborough, North Yorkshire YO13 9HT is a company dealing in propolis and is working with a group at Oxford University on developing international standards for propolis, examining the anti-inflamatory properties or propolis and using propolis in treating burns. Murray Reid ReidM@Ruakura.MQM.Govt.NZ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 13:36:36 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jane Beckman Subject: Aztec "honey"? I've been in a discussion with the historical food group, lately, about supposed Aztec beekeeping. I have pointed out that Apis mellifera was an introduction from the Old World, and the progress of feral and kept bee colonies is pretty well tracked, not making serious inroads on North America until the mid-19th century. Hence, the supposed Aztec beekeeping and consumption of "honey" was highly suspect, and probably a misinterpretation. However, the proponent of Aztec beekeeping is insistant. I have allowed that they might have been exploiting some other bee or related insect for wild honey in some form, since I am familiar with honey ants. Therefore, I figure I'll put it out to the list. I told her I'd send her a summary of opinions. Jane B. [jane@swdc.stratus.com] ------------------------- OK if there were no honey bees, then what were the Aztec drawing on there Codecs that looked like them, and what were they eating that the Spanish in 1519 described as honey?Do you have any suggestions as to what they could have been refering to? _Jennifer Edwards-ring ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 23:12:22 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hans-Ulrich THOMAS Subject: Re: Apistan > Here in the UK we have a problem with Varroa control. The only chemical > treatment which is approved for sale is Bayvarol which is expensive. I > would like to alternate Bayvarol and Apistan to reduce the chance of buili= ng > up resistance. Mick, At first hand this seems to be a good idea. However, at the Apimondia conference in Lausanne it was reported that honeybees in Italy became resistant to both Apistan and Bayvarol. It seems that for cost reasons Italien beekeepers substituted Apistan with an other chemical containing a synthetic pyrethroid, sometimes even spraying this stuff directly onto the bees! This huge overdoses resulted in the Varroa quickly becoming resistant. This cross resistance is rather surprising but a fact. The moral: Please use only Apistan or Bayvarol and then only in accordance with the label instructions. =46or the moment you seem to be save. Italy seems to be the only place where this resistance occurs. But given the fact of the intensive international trade with queens it's only a matter of time until the Varroas in England will be resistant too. In case you are interested the following paper gives you more details: - N.Milani: The resistance of Varroa jacobsoni to pyrethroids: A laboratory assay Apidology 26 (1995), pages 415-429 e-mail me in case you can not get a hold of this journal. I will send you a copy. God luck and few Varroas Hans CHNK=01=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00fntb=00=00=00=00=00=00=02=FD=00=00=00= =07font=00=00=00=00=00=00=02=BF=00=00=00 just=00=00=00=00=00=00=02=BA=00=00=00=02marg=00=00=00=00=00=00=02=A8=00=00= =00=10prec=00=00=00=00=00=00=024=00=00=00xruns=00=00=00=00=00=00=02=CB=00=00= =00=08stat=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=BF =00=00=00(sttb=00=00=00=00=00=00=02=95=00=00=00$text=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=CB= =00=00=01Jvers=00=00=00=00=00=00=03=14=00=00=00=04=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00= =00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00(=00=03 =02-=01=A4=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=D9=00=00= =00=D9=00=00=00=00____________________________________________ ________ Hans-Ulrich THOMAS. Beekeeper & collector of books about: - bees and beekeeping - ants (yes these small little buggers!) - nature printing e-mail: hthomas@solid.phys.ethz.ch CompuServe: 100045,2556 =46ax: +41 1 633 10 77 ____________________________________________________=00=00=00=03=00=00=00H= =00H=00=00=00=00=032=028=9D=D9=9D=DB=03> =02F=03G=05{=03=FD=00=02=00=00=00H=00H=00=00=00=00=032=028=00=01=00=00=00d= =00=00=00=01=00=03=03=03=00=9D=00=01'=0F=00=01=00=01=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00= =00=00=00=00h=08=00=19=01=EA=00=00=00=00=10=00=00=00=00=00 =00=00=00=00=00=01=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00H=00=00= =00H=00=00=00H=00=00=00H=00=00=9D=9C=00=00=00=03=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00= =00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=06G eneva=00=00=00=00=01=01K=9D=9D=00=00=00=10=00=0C=00=04=00=00=00=0C=00=00=00= =00=00=00=00=01=00=10=00=0C=9D=9D=00=00=00=0C=00=00=00=00=00=00=01 =C4=00 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 16:47:57 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: Aztec "honey"? >I've been in a discussion with the historical food group, lately, about >supposed Aztec beekeeping. I have pointed out that Apis mellifera was >an introduction from the Old World, and the progress of feral and kept bee >colonies is pretty well tracked, not making serious inroads on North America >until the mid-19th century. Hence, the supposed Aztec beekeeping and >consumption of "honey" was highly suspect, and probably a misinterpretation. No, it just wasn't honeybee honey. >However, the proponent of Aztec beekeeping is insistant. I have allowed >that they might have been exploiting some other bee or related insect for >wild honey in some form, since I am familiar with honey ants. Therefore, I >figure I'll put it out to the list. I told her I'd send her a summary of >opinions. > >Jane B. [jane@swdc.stratus.com] >------------------------- >OK if there were no honey bees, then what were the Aztec drawing on there >Codecs that looked like them, and what were they eating that the Spanish >in 1519 described as honey?Do you have any suggestions as to what they >could have been refering to? >_Jennifer Edwards-ring That's an easy one to answer, and pretty well-studied (I seem to recall an entire book on the history of bees in the New World, even - anyone know the one I'm thinking of?) - there are dozens of species of Stingless Bees (Meliponini) in the New World tropics that store honey in their colonies, and these bees have been exploited for this resource by native peoples (a common species used for this purpose by the Aztecs is Melipona beechei, maybe M. fasciata, as I recall). The nests are usually in tree hollows, and destroyed in the process of harvesting. At any rate, they're closely related to honeybees, but have numerous and substantial differences in their biology and ecology; and given that there are fossils in amber at least 80 million years old, they've been around a long time. While there are also some Neotropical Polybiine paper wasps (like the genus Brachygastra) which will store honey in their nests, I doubt that that's related to the "Aztec beekeeping" issue. Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 18:38:19 -0400 Reply-To: RICHARD J ALBERT Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: UNITE Project N.B. Education N.-B. From: richard albert Subject: Multiple Colony Packs Fellow Beekeepers: I am a novice beekeeper in New Brunswick, Canada. Our winters are fairly cold. We have about 100 frost-free days a year. Is there anyone who could instruct me on some details of overwintering in "multiple colony packs"? 1. What are the pros and cons? 2. One method I've seen proposes wintering up to 24 "well-fed" colonies in a pack, each confined to a single hive body. Would colonies so wintered have enough stores to sustain them over the winter without a super of honey above each one? 3. The hives used in a multiple colony pack must have "short" bottom boards (flush with the hive body). Does the absence of a "landing edge" on the bottom board present a challenge to landing bees? 4. Entrances in multiple colony packs face East, West, and South. Therefore, some entrances are on the "long" (20 inch) side of the bottom board. Can these same bottom boards be used in the summer? (ie. the bees entering and exiting on the "long" side) Will the absence of a landing edge be an extra burden on bees bringing in large loads of pollen and nectar? 5. I currently overwinter my hives in two supers with an hole for ventilation just above the upper super. The multiple colony method I read about does not include upper ventilation holes on each colony. Won't this cause problems for the bees? An instruction on these matters will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Richard Albert R.R.#1 Norton, NB CANADA E0G 2N0 alberrij@nbed.nb.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 19:47:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Natural bee hive Will North American honeybees build colonies out in the open? The answer is that such colonies are not common, but they do exist (at least in the summer). The way such a colony gets going is if a swarm is unsuccesful at finding a new homesite, they will build comb where the swarm gathered and set up shop. I have seen one such colony in a tree; it lasted all summer. Regrettably, such colonies cannot overwinter successfully (at least in Maryland). Based on my observations, wild honeybees much prefer nice, sheltered trees and house attics to roughing it out on a tree limb. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 17:52:53 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: Re: Queen Pheromones In-Reply-To: Roy : We've been working with Queen Mandibular Pheromone (QMP) up here at Simon Fraser University for over a decade. I have a number of citations that should answer some of your questions. On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Roy Nettlebeck wrote: > I would appreciate information on any research which determined a mean > level of (E_)-9-Hydroxy-decenoic acid (9-HDA) and (E_)-9-oxo-2-decenoic > acid (9-ODA) in queen bees.I want to quantify the levels so new queens > may be tested for 9-ODA and 9-HDA.If any researcher has used this to > determine the acceptability of a new queen to a hive. One queen equivalent is the average amount of QMP found in a pair of queen mandibular glands at any given time (Slessor et al. 1988 Semiochemical basis of the retinue response to queen honey bees. Nature. 332:354-356). This quantity is 250 microg 9ODA, 150 microg 9HDA (88% R(-) & 12% S(+)), 20 microg HOB, and 2 microg HVA. Dr. Slessor has studied the profiles of virgin queens and mated queens and they are different (Slessor et al. 1990 Semiochemical basis of the retinue response to queen honey bees. J. Chem. Ecol. 16:851-860). He's also looked at old queens, vs. newly mated queens, vs. queens ready to be superceded and I believe there was also no difference. > I have read many papers and have not found much more than the queen has > the compounds and uses them to control different behaviors of the > workers. Its much more complex than just two compounds.In Bee Genetics > and Breeding By Dr. Rinderer 1986,he has me looking at what genetic > variability we have in our queens, that controls there pheromone level. Tanya Pankiw, whose now doing her postdoc in Arizona, looked at the herdibility of the workers response to the queen. She was able to establish two lines of workers, one with very low response, and one with very high response by a selective breeding program. She got differences very quickly, suggesting the trait is highly heritable. She's got a stack of papers currently in press. One available paper which may interest you is Pankiw et al. 1993 Variation in Worker Response to Honey Bee Queen Mandibular Pheromone. J. Insect Behavior. 7(1):1-15. P.S. Erika Pletner has just completed the biosynthetic pathway for some of the QMP comonents - if that is of any use. Oh, one last thing has come to mine. Lynn Bernie and Jeff Pettis have done some work in observation hives that queen right workers will ball workers dosed with QMP and each of the components seperately. They did dose responses to each of the components and had some very neat results. Perhaps this work would be helpful in looking for the stuff that makes workers so aggressive to newly introduced queens ? If you want me to put you in touch with any of these people, or if I can help in any other way, please let me know. Adony Melathopoulos Simon Fraser University Burnaby, B.C. melathop@sfu.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 20:42:48 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kim Patten Subject: Re: Queen Pheromones dony Melathopoulos: > >Tanya Pankiw, whose now doing her postdoc in Arizona, looked at the >herdibility of the workers response to the queen. She was able to >establish two lines of workers, one with very low response, and one with >very high response by a selective breeding program. She got differences >very quickly, suggesting the trait is highly heritable. She's got a >stack of papers currently in press. One available paper which may interest >you is Pankiw et al. 1993 Variation in Worker Response to Honey Bee Queen >Mandibular Pheromone. J. Insect Behavior. 7(1):1-15. > Do you know if QMP can be used to shift the workers into pollen collection over nectar collection? Kim Kim Patten Washington State University Long Beach Research and Extension Unit Rt. 1, Box 570, Long Beach WA 98631 phone and fax 360-642-2031 e-mail pattenk@coopext.cahe.wsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 00:02:03 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Veldhuis Subject: Re: OSB In-Reply-To: <199601241305.IAA17573@franklin> from "WILLIAM G LORD" at Jan 24, 96 08:05:36 am WILLIAM G LORD insightfully writes: > > I just got a good deal on some OSB (oriented strand board) and was > wondering if anyone has any experience in using it for hive > applications. When I was in New Zealand, some beekeeepers used this stuff for bottoms and tops, but most hive equipmemtn there was boiled in parafin to prevent rot in the moist climate. It seemed pretty successful under thos conditions. In Canada, I sometimes see osb lids in my rounds as a bee inspector, and it is invariably in poor condition. I would expect that you should soak or boil the stuff in some serious preservative if you want it to last for than a few years. Phil > -- > WILLIAM G LORD > E-Mail : wglord@franklin > Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu > Phone : 9194963344 > -- ------------oooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo------------- Phil Veldhuis | If I must be a fool, as all those who reason Winnipeg. MB, Canada | or believe any thing certainly are, my follies veldhui@cc.umanitoba.ca | shall at least be natural and agreeable. David Hume (1739) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 02:57:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Re: OSB I have used osb for honey supers where they will not be out all year just during the nectar flow. They work ok as long as you paint them, but they tend to de laminate after a few years, and that is here in CT where moisture is not a big problem. If the price is right give it a try. Good luck! Ralph harrisonrw@aol.com Milford, CT ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 03:31:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Spring has Sprung in Carolina-Report from the South Dear Bee Folks, The maple bloom signals the beginning of a new work year here in coastal South Carolina, and it has now begun. We've had an unusually cold December, and the first two weeks of January, with a lot of nights in the low 20's, but that has now broken, and the warm southerly winds have brought on a lot of mustard bloom. I've been seeing a lot bright yellow mustard pollen coming in for over a week. Yesterday and today, we began to see the pale green maple pollen, along with some significant nectar. A week ago, the bees averaged about the least brood I've ever seen here, but today we saw some entire frames of eggs. What a difference a little flow makes. Clusters that looked ratty and puny just a few days ago, look a whole lot better today, and clusters that were really good a week ago are now bustin' at the seams. Bees are quite variable. I've looked at some that are real pretty, and some that may not make it yet, especially if we have some bad March weather. The quality of the bees seems to go by yard, ie. one yard of bees may be mostly poor, while another may be roaring with bee-power. I've never been able to understand why one yard may look really good, while another, just two or three miles away may look sick. Next year they may trade places. In this area maple can be deceptive. I've seen honey capped during the maple flow, but all eaten two weeks later. It stimulates the queen into massive egg laying, but peters out and there is a long barren period until the main spring flow which begins at the end of March. The most beautiful hives will brood up heavily and starve about the 15th of March, if they are not attended. So the maple flow begins the spring rush. Our feeding now is not just to keep the hives surviving, but to get them to make more bees. A dollar's worth of sugar or syrup plus our labor, should make two or three dollars worth of bees, now that pollen is abundant. Every hive gets feed, whether or not it is light on stores. I am richly blessed, in that I'm no longer working alone. I found a priceless pearl, and married her a couple months ago. She is now with me in the bee yards, and enjoying it just as much as I do. A former librarian, Janice is an organizational whiz, so she's putting her talents into organizing me. Well, we sure are having a lot of fun anyway. I've always loved keeping bees, even if I didn't make a lot of money, and now it's twice as good. We are looking at alternatives to increase the income, and with twice the brainpower, maybe we can find a formula that works. I've had a bit different agenda lately, what with finding a loving wife, and I apologize to those who've been asking if I am still alive. I have been remiss at answering mail, etc. We had to move Janice to Hemingway, and get a new home organized. So please accept my excuses and apologies. We're also working on a web page on pollination, and we'll give you the address as soon as it's ready. What would you like to see on it? We'll try to make as much pollination information available as we can. Pollinator@aol.com Dave & Janice Green PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:08:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jon Dain Subject: SIGN-OFF Please remove me from the bee-l list. SIGN OFF BEE-L, Thank you, Jon Dain jdain@tcd,ufl.edu Jonathan Dain - University of Florida - JDain@tcd.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 07:13:56 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: OSB > I just got a good deal on some OSB (oriented strand board) and was > wondering if anyone has any experience in using it for hive > applications. Well, it comes in thicknesses up to an inch and you don't say which you have. I have seen 3/8 inch used successfully under tin for lids, and have tried it myself, however I don't care for it and it will not stand up if it has water set on it - say when lids blow off or are left out. It flakes off over time and is not too good if you will have to scrape it. My recommendation: sell it or trade it for proven materials, or build a shed with it. In vertical sides, well painted, or for roof under shingles, it is in its intended application and will last well. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:27:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jon Dain Subject: Re: Aztec "honey"? >I've been in a discussion with the historical food group, lately, about >supposed Aztec beekeeping. I have pointed out that Apis mellifera was >an introduction from the Old World, and the progress of feral and kept bee >colonies is pretty well tracked, not making serious inroads on North America >until the mid-19th century. Hence, the supposed Aztec beekeeping and >consumption of "honey" was highly suspect, and probably a misinterpretation. > >However, the proponent of Aztec beekeeping is insistant. I have allowed >that they might have been exploiting some other bee or related insect for >wild honey in some form, since I am familiar with honey ants. Therefore, I >figure I'll put it out to the list. I told her I'd send her a summary of >opinions. > >Jane B. The Aztecs and the Mayans were in fact top notch beekeepers...of stingless bees, meliponas. Honey was produced for religious and medicinal purposes in hollow logs (by "priests") and there is a great deal of literature on the subject, much in Spanish. Although I do not have any citations on hand, I know that Eva Crane mentions it in her books (IBRA) and I believe that there was an article on stingless beekeeping in Mexico in Bee World in the late 1980s. Keeping stingless bees still continues among the decendents of the Maya in southern Mexico. Jonathan Dain - University of Florida - JDain@tcd.ufl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:20:09 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: Identification of a beekeeping tool I have been looking over a beautiful little children's book, L'Abeille. As the title may indicate it is in French. In it the tools of the beekeeper are shown. I can figure out most, but there is something listed as "le soufflet". It kind of looks like a bellows. Does anyone know what this is known as in English and what is its purpose? Whitney Cranshaw wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:27:03 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom_Elliott@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US Subject: Dance Theory I have no particular investment in the Dance Theory. It is a nice picture, but what matters is "is it true"? The tenor of the writings I've seen seems to be to prove or demonstrate the validity of a strongly held belief. That is proponents of the theory design experiments to prove their belief and explain away the arguments of the opponents. At the same time the anti Dance Theory people seem to design their experiments to disprove the theory. Is there no work being done by people who not only claim objectivity, but demonstrate it. It seems to me that the search for truth is not served by two opposing sides, but by seeking what is true, whether we believe it or not. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:20:21 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: Re: Queen Pheromones In-Reply-To: <199601250442.UAA28538@cheetah.it.wsu.edu> Kim : On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Kim Patten wrote: > Do you know if QMP can be used to shift the workers into pollen collection > over nectar collection? Heather Higo, also out of our lab, showed that QMP caused significant dose-dependent increase in the number of foragers gathering pollen, and individual pollen foragers returned to the nest with larger pollen loads (Higo et al. 1992 Effect of honey bee queen mandibular gland pheromone on foraging and brood rearing. Canadian Entomologist 124:409-418). She only found this difference in colonies just established from packages, and has done two years of work that seems indicate these differences do not occur in established colonies. Heather's e-mail address is higo@sfu.ca. Adony ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:11:21 -1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Early Subject: If you are or know a Belgian beekeeper please read Greetings, Before you read this, please note that, although it has to do with beekeeping, it has nothing to do with the essential purpose of this list. Please delete if you are not from Belgium or have no knowledge of Belgian beekeeping organizations. My question: I am a librarian at the Center for Research Libraries in Chicago attempting to establish the proper publishers of 2 beekeeping journals: "Maandblad van de Vlaamse Imkersbond" and "Vlaams Imkersblad contact". To help me do this task, I would like to find out: 1. If some members of the Vlaamse Imkersbond (literally: Flemish Beekeepers Association) split off from this organization to form a "competing" Vlaamse Imkersbond in late 1970. 2. If this second Vlaamse Imkersbond is still in existence or if it ended in 1992. The publication "Vlaams Imkersblad" was obviously published by this second organization until that year. In 1993 the publication became "Vlaams Imkersblad Contact" and no mention of the Vlaamse Imkersbond appears anywhere. The "Contact" journal appears to now be published by 2 local beekeeping organizations in the Belgian towns of Gent and Lede. 3. If the first Vlaamse Imkersbond is also known as the Koninklijke ("royal") Vlaamse Imkersbond. Their publication is called "Maandblad van de Vlaamse Imkersbond" and appears to still be coming out regularly. If you can help out, please email me personally at: early@crlmail.uchicago.edu. I promise never ever again to post to this list unless I take up the beekeeping vocation myself (the "dance" controversy and "Aztec beekeeping" discussion are both quite fascinating by the way). Stephen T. Early Serials cataloger Center for Research Libraries Chicago, IL ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:49:03 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Veldhuis Subject: Philosophical issues re: DL theory. In-Reply-To: <9600258225.AA822591703@jhqnov.dot.state.ak.us> from "Tom_Elliott@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US" at Jan 25, 96 09:27:03 am AS I'm probably the only philosopher of science on the list, I'll field this one. Tom_Elliott@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US insightfully writes: > > I have no particular investment in the Dance Theory. It is a nice > picture, but what matters is "is it true"? Where true usually means "evidenced by the best tests we can put forward". > > The tenor of the writings I've seen seems to be to prove or > demonstrate the validity of a strongly held belief. I take "prove", "demonstrate" and "Validity" all to be synonyms of "truth". That is > proponents of the theory design experiments to prove their belief and > explain away the arguments of the opponents. Of course, lack of success carries a lesson too. If your experimental designs continue to fail, you might just give up. At the same time the > anti Dance Theory people seem to design their experiments to disprove > the theory. Ditto Is there no work being done by people who not only claim > objectivity, but demonstrate it. In fact, most science is researched by people who are deeply committed to thier theories. What matters is that you are objective as to how you produce your evidence. You don't, for instance, slander your opponent, or fail his/her grad students, etc. The major testo of objectivity in science is the replicatibility of experiments. That is, your experiment that confirms your theiry must be performed by anyone, believer or doubter, with the same results. It seems to me that the search for > truth is not served by two opposing sides, but by seeking what is > true, whether we believe it or not. > Why we probably all have our doubts in the wake of the OJ simpson thing, the law system is based on the adversarial system because it does tend to produce the truth. That is, two well meaning individuals, who are both deeply motivated by their commitment to their theory, will accomplish more oppopsed to eachother, than if they both were just objective in motive. Philip Kitcher's: The advancement of science (1993) is a good source on these matters. hope this helps -- ------------oooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo------------- Phil Veldhuis | If I must be a fool, as all those who reason Winnipeg. MB, Canada | or believe any thing certainly are, my follies veldhui@cc.umanitoba.ca | shall at least be natural and agreeable. David Hume (1739) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:45:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Book Tour A second request for help. This gentleman requires help with a "Wax & Foundation" book promotional tour, from someone in the Ottawa area. The request originated in British Columbia. fgysi@cln.etc.bc.ca Werner M. Gysi **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:20:25 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: Dance Theory (also "Haggling about Waggling") > I have no particular investment in the Dance Theory. It is a nice > picture, but what matters is "is it true"? > > The tenor of the writings I've seen seems to be to prove or > demonstrate the validity of a strongly held belief. That is > proponents of the theory design experiments to prove their belief and > explain away the arguments of the opponents. At the same time the > anti Dance Theory people seem to design their experiments to disprove > the theory. Is there no work being done by people who not only claim > objectivity, but demonstrate it. It seems to me that the search for > truth is not served by two opposing sides, but by seeking what is > true, whether we believe it or not. We actually went through a big foofaraw on this back in August, but maybe not everyone was around for it then - at the time I suggested (and I have no particular investment, either) that there is a biogical interpretation that can easily be taken as a compromise position, and is actually in keeping with much of our understanding of orientation behavior in general, and in bees and wasps in particular. That is, their orientation flights generally consist of specific "phases", most conveniently divided up into "long-range" versus "short-range" modalities. This is true throughout the nesting hymenoptera; it is not a particularly great leap to suppose that the dance conveys information only relevant to long-range modalities, while the odor cues are utilized in the short-range searches once a bee has flown to a certain position in mid-air. Adrian himself mentioned that bees will fly in a zig-zag path away from the hive, which is certainly a plausible parallel to the "waggle" component of the dance (and I'm sure no one can disagree with the observations that the dance IS oriented relative to the sun's position, and adjusted as it moves). On the other hand, it isn't implausible that the dance may *contain* more information than the scouts are able to exploit, or respond to accurately. The point is, if bees can use the dance to get into the general vicinity of a resource, but then need an odor cue to be enticed to *land* there, then both parties in the "controversy" could each claim their share of the "truth". Too bad one can't rent the Superdome (or maybe one of those domes that has a removable cover) for a week or so to run some large-scale experiments under nice, controlled conditions, and using some of those nifty passive radar transponders that just appeared in Nature...it might help resolve some things. Sincerely, Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:36:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Gentile Subject: Re: Looking for a natural bee hive and beekeeping gear. At 12:18 AM 1/23/96 -0500, you wrote: >I wrote a few months ago requesting suggestions for an interactive bee >exhibit. Thank you for all the replies I received. I am hoping that >some of you can help me once again. Does anyone know how I can find a >natural honeybee hive that could be put on display? I personally have >only seen them in pictures, and I assume that children are most familiar >with the ones from which Pooh Bear thieves or those they might see in >Honeycomb commercials. The opposition between natural and human-made >hives would be interesting and educational. Hi Andrea, For a natural bee hive you could take a hollowed out log, cut a portion of it out and replace the cut out portion with Plexiglas. This would give you a "natural" observation hive. Package bees could be introduced to your new natural hive. This would give you an opportunity to observe the bees start a brand new colony. The Academy of Natural Sciences, in Philadelphia, maintains a natural type observation hive. I'll be going there next month to see the spider exhibit there. I'll see if I can take apicture of the hive for you. Do you have a graphic image viewer? If you do I'll have the photo scanned and I'll send it to you via email. Pete, NJ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:36:26 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Gentile Subject: Re: Identification of a beekeeping tool At 11:20 AM 1/25/96 -0700, you wrote: >I have been looking over a beautiful little children's book, L'Abeille. As >the title may indicate it is in French. > >In it the tools of the beekeeper are shown. I can figure out most, but >there is something listed as "le soufflet". It kind of looks like a >bellows. Does anyone know what this is known as in English and what is its >purpose? > >Whitney Cranshaw >wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu > > It looks like a bellows attached to a tin can with a spout right? Usaually dried leaves, hay or dry grass is placed inside the smoker as fuel and is ignited. The fuel smolders inside and the smoke is pumped out of the spout using the bellows. The bees in the hive are gently "smoked" before harvesting honey or manipulating the hive for other reasons. The smoke has a calming effect on the bees. The smoker is one of the basic tools of beekeeping. Pete, NJ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 23:04:55 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: Re: Freezing Terramycin patties Question - Can you freeze extender patties and for how long? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:28:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Identification of a beekeeping tool Could "le soufflets" purpose have been to clear bees away from the frames? Al Needham alwine@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:03:20 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jack C. Turner" Subject: Re: Looking for a natural bee hive and beekeeping gear. In-Reply-To: <199601260336.WAA11081@net2.intserv.com>; from "Peter Gentile" at Jan 25, 96 10:36 pm I deleted Andrea's post before I gave myself a chance to consider it. If she'll send me an addressed envelope, I'll send a b&w photo that I took in the woods. There are a lot of misconceptions about bees in trees, at least from my experiences here in the Appalachians. For example, seldom is there the type of opening that, say Pooh, could simply reach into - often itknot hole or the end of a broken limb. Also, many of us who have followed them in mountain woodland wouldn't know the meaning of the term "bee line" - I've watched them go maybe fifty meters at a right angle to the tree, then cut through a more open area. Jack Turner 6100 Redwine Road Wise, VA 24293 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 10:38:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: MD-VA-PA Readers Only: Beeswax A friend in Md wishes to buy 100# of light clean (natch!) beeswax soonest. What have U? His range: $2 - $2.50 per pound. Jack the B-man Ellicott City MD usa ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 08:27:51 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Aztec "honey"? >The Aztecs and the Mayans were in fact top notch beekeepers...of stingless >bees, meliponas. Honey was produced for religious and medicinal purposes >in hollow logs (by "priests") and there is a great deal of literature on >the subject, much in Spanish. Although I do not have any citations on >hand, I know that Eva Crane mentions it in her books (IBRA) and I believe >that there was an article on stingless beekeeping in Mexico in Bee World in >the late 1980s. Keeping stingless bees still continues among the >decendents of the Maya in southern Mexico. See the following: Crane, E. 1983. The Archaeology of Beekeeping. Cornell Univ. Press. Ithaca, NY. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *"Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, but to * * think what no one else has thought." - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 08:57:04 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Natural bee hive >Will North American honeybees build colonies out in the open? Here in Santa Barbara I have seen them last several years, suspended up in trees. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *"Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, but to * * think what no one else has thought." - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 12:30:05 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Henderson/WSIU-TV Subject: Re: Aztec "honey"? I passed on the discussion of "Aztec honey" to two of my Anthropology friends that specialize in studying the Aztecs and Mayas. Thought you all might find interesting. Good grief, these bee folks are nutso! What's the big deal about the Aztecs having bees and eating honey? The Maya had bees. And ate honey. The Maya had bee GODS! They were stingless bees, and I don't know if those are Apis menifera or what. Wax and honey were important tribute items in Yucatan in the early sixteenth century, and nothing (that I know of) suggests that bees were introduced. Wasn't honey one of the items in the canoe that Columbus saw on his 4th voyage to the Indies? Prudence M. Rice Department of Anthropology 3525 Faner Hall, Mailcode 4502 Southern Illinois University at Carbondale Carbondale, Illinois 62901-4502 Tel: 618-536-6651 Fax: 618-453-5037 E-Mail: PRICE@SIU.EDU The issue of the production of honey during the period of Aztec hegemony in Mesoamerica (ca. AD 1428-1521) is interesting. One of the best graphic sources on Aztec consumption of honey is the Codex Mendoza, an Aztec painted manuscript prepared on the authority of Don Antonio de Mendoza, first Viecroy of New Spain, shortly after the Spanish conquest, for dispatch to the emperor of Spain, Charles V. There are any number of facsimile copies published and available in academic libraries. The idea of the codex, painted by an Aztec book artist (with a Spanish priest familiar with Aztec language, Nahuatl, making notes and commentaries over the pages), was to give the King of Spain information about his new dominions in the New World. The second section of the codex, the Tribute Roll of Moctezuma, details the tribute paid by over 400 conquered towns to the last ruler of the Aztec. One of the prominent items of tribute is jars of honey, pictured on many of the tribute pages. The notations by the Spanish scribe suggest, however, that many are "cantaros de miel de maguey," jars of honey derived from maguey (the spiney "century plant," from which tequila is also produced). Other notations indicate, however, tribute in the form of "cantarillos de miel de abejas," little jars of honey from bees. I haven't done an inventory of every tribute page, but the maguey honey appears to come from arid, highland zones controlled by the Aztecs, while the bee honey is part of the tributed demanded from moist, tropical lowland zones. Some of the amounts owed were enormous. For example, one page lists ten "hot country" towns that all had the same tribute requirements, among them 200 small pots of bee honey. The kicker is that this quantity had to be paid by each town every 80 days! Given that perhaps as many as half of the 400 towns listed paid maguey and/or bee honey in some quantity every 80 days, the consumption of "honey" in the capital of Tenochtitlan (Mexico City) must have been incredible. And there's absolutely no question that the keeping of bees and the production of honey was taking place on a very, very large scale during this final century before the conquest, at least in the lowland regions of Mesoamerica. Don S. Rice Center for Archaeological Investigations Southern Illinois University at Carbondale 3479 Faner Hall, Mailcode 4527 Carbondale, Illinois 62901-4527 Tel. 618/453.5031 Fax. 618/453.3253 E-Mail. DRICE@SIU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 13:44:14 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: "le soufflet" >I have been looking over a beautiful little children's book, L'Abeille. As >the title may indicate it is in French. > >In it the tools of the beekeeper are shown. I can figure out most, but >there is something listed as "le soufflet". It kind of looks like a >bellows. Does anyone know what this is known as in English and what is its >purpose? > >Whitney Cranshaw >wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu > > A "SOUFFLET" is a bellows which a part of "L'ENFUMOIR" (the smoker). "L'ENFUMOIR" is the tool the beekeeper uses to smoke up the bees to calm them while manipulating a colony. Jean-Pierre Chapleau eleveur de reines / queen breeder 1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien de Ham, Quebec, Canada, J0A 1C0 tel./phone (819) 828-3396; fax (819) 828-0357 chapleau@praline.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 21:56:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Re: MD-VA-PA Readers Only: Beeswax Jack the B-Man , your friend might want to contact Fisher Honey Company 1 Belle Ave. Building 21 Lewistown, PA 17044 Phone (717) 242-4373 Fax (717) 242-3978 Wade Fisher sent me a sample of wax and it looked very good and if I remember right it was in that price range. Good Luck, Ralph Harrison Milford CT. (203) 878-0462 or harrisonrw@aol.com Western CT Beekeepeers Association ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 01:00:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: stan sandler Subject: Re: Multiple Colony Packs >To: RICHARD J ALBERT >From: sandler@peinet.pe.ca (stan sandler) >Subject: Re: Multiple Colony Packs > >>Fellow Beekeepers: >> >>I am a novice beekeeper in New Brunswick, Canada. Our winters are fairly >>cold. We have about 100 frost-free days a year. Is there anyone who could >>instruct me on some details of overwintering in "multiple colony packs"? >> >>1. What are the pros and cons? > >Richard: I am close by you in Prince Edward Island. Our winter is similar but a little damper. I keep about 200 hives, but I try to keep my beekeeping simple, because my main occupation is as a dairy farmer. I use some multiple packs but only for 10 to 20 % of my colonies because of the increased labour. By the way, the former Nova Scotia apiarist, Endel Karmo, was a pioneer of this method decades ago, and his fact sheets at the Nova Scotia Dept. of Agriculture may still be available. >Pro's:1. The colonies take less feed. >2. They keep the bottom board cleaner of dead bees and the pollen stores rarely go mouldy. >3. Much weaker colonies or splits can be successfully overwintered in packs. > >con's:1. You have to use queen excluders to confine brood to one box. >2. You have to feed a lot of syrup because that box will be full of brood, and pollen stores have to be monitored. >3. You need special division boards between the hives >4. Strong hives can have difficulty cramming sufficient feed into one box and sometimes even the bees can barely fit. >5. It is difficult to fit the hives into the pack because you can't keep your hands on both sides of the super (you are fitting a box into a quarter of a rectangle), and if you are using a hive loader it is difficult to manoever. >6. Sometimes when you are making the pack in cold weather, as I do, you lose bees either on the bottom board when you remove it or getting clusters scraped off the bottom of the frames when you are trying to get the box into the pack. >7. The hives may build a little slower in the spring which for me means the blueberry growers I pollinate for might be concerned. >8. The hives are much, much, more difficult to examine in the spring and feed. > > >> >>2. One method I've seen proposes wintering up to 24 "well-fed" colonies in >>a pack, each confined to a single hive body. Would colonies so wintered >>have enough stores to sustain them over the winter without a super of honey >>above each one? > > >24 colonies, in my opinion, is much too many, for all the reasons listed in "cons." >You really have to cram them with feed, and late enough that the brood area is reduced. >You could consider leaving a shallow super as well. >> >>3. The hives used in a multiple colony pack must have "short" bottom boards >>(flush with the hive body). Does the absence of a "landing edge" on the >>bottom board present a challenge to landing bees? >> >I personally have never found a landing edge necessary. I don't even use it on many of my regular bottom boards. In the winter it collects snow and ice, and makes it more difficult for the bees to clear dead bees and debris. > >>4. Entrances in multiple colony packs face East, West, and South. >>Therefore, some entrances are on the "long" (20 inch) side of the bottom >>board. Can these same bottom boards be used in the summer? (ie. the bees >>entering and exiting on the "long" side) > >yes > > Will the absence of a landing >>edge be an extra burden on bees bringing in large loads of pollen and >>nectar? >you have to use a different bottom board in the summer, anyway, at least if you you use double screened division boards between the colonies. If you use solid division boards, and leave them in for the working season as bottom boards, the bees will manage as long as the grass does not block the entrance, and it is kept full width (either on the short or long side). > >> >>5. I currently overwinter my hives in two supers with an hole for >>ventilation just above the upper super. The multiple colony method I read >>about does not include upper ventilation holes on each colony. Won't this >>cause problems for the bees? > >Although the upper hives in multiple colony packs have heated bottom boards from below, and can keep them clear, I also provide an upper entrance for each in order to help ventilate and dump moisture. I only use the packs for late summer splits, and I usually put them over 2 box colonies that are very strong and heavy because I know I won't be able to feed or monitor the lower colonies easily. I may or may not wrap colonies; I haven't found that much of a difference (they are extremely well sheltered from our often ferocious winds). >The best improvement I think I ever made for my wintering was to use deep wooden top tray feeders in the fall. These have a three quarter inch lip under them and a top entrance is cut into that. The bees use a central access into the feeder, which is screened. When the bees are gorged with stores I fill the feeder with shavings or sawdust from DRY lumber. As well as providing some top insulation to reduce condensation, it is amazing how much moisture the shavings will absorb from the bees respiration. They are totally sodden in the spring. Probably I should change them once in the winter. >The majority of my hives are wintered on stands that accomodate five hives in a line. Made with eight foot lumber, they allow me to easily unload five hives with covers on. Then sometime in late fall after the feeders are on, and the hives are quiet, I remove the covers, push the hives together so they can share a little heat from the side walls, which are the most difficult for them to heat, and put covers made from 4 by 8 plywood split lenthwise over the group. > >I would welcome any advice from other members of the list on overwintering in harsh conditions. I would find a short description of methods used quite interesting; there certainly is a tremendous variety of ways people try it. > >I am also curious as to whether anyone has a good design for a grapple that can be used with a hive loader. > >I am a new member to the list and I am really enjoying the discussion a lot. >Stan Sandler, Milk and Honey Farm> > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 11:20:31 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Re: Identification of a beekeeping tool At 11:20 25/01/96 -0700, you wrote: >I have been looking over a beautiful little children's book, L'Abeille. As >the title may indicate it is in French. > >In it the tools of the beekeeper are shown. I can figure out most, but >there is something listed as "le soufflet". It kind of looks like a >bellows. Does anyone know what this is known as in English and what is its >purpose? > >Whitney Cranshaw >wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu > >Modern dictionary ---- Souffler, verb, to blow Soufflet, noun masculine, Bellows (of a forge or camera) so it is obviously a form of smoker. In 1951 IBRA, then BRA, published a little dictionary of beekeeping terms in four languages, English, French, German and Dutch and offered the following. Smoker (E), Enfumoir, le (F), Rauchapparat, der (G), Beroker, mas., and Rookapparat, neut. (D) If a member of IBRA should chance to read this perhaps he (she) could say if this dictionary has been reprinted or is still available. Over the years I have found it very useful. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 23:11:13 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Clevenstine Subject: HELP Is this list service difficult to sign off from or am I just stupid? I type --->SIGNOFF BEE-L<--- in the body of my message, and they're telling me that there's no command in the body of the message. Am I missing something or WHAT??? Please help! A TROLL of a bee...rclevens@jasper.knox.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 03:57:36 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Caldeira Subject: Unapproved Mite Treatments Are Mavrik, Spur and other forms of fluvalinate, or formic acid, commonly used to treat varroa-infested hives in the U.S.? I realize these treatments are not currently approved for use with bees in the U.S., but does the cost difference between Apistan and these unapproved treatments provide a strong temptation for commercial beekeepers? How widespread is the use of unapproved treatments? Would appreciate learning from any speculation and/or knowledge on this. Public or private E-mail. Thanks, John Caldeira jcaldeira@earthlink.net John Caldeira Dallas, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 05:52:04 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Periodic Posting - Previous discussion archives Contents: 1.) Web access to BEE-l 2.) Email access to historical BEE-L discussions 3.) Dave Claton's Booklist now on website There are two ways now to read back issues of BEE-L. ~~~~~~~~ 1. ) BEE-l can presently be read on the Worldwide Web by pointing your brouser at http://www.internode.net:80/~allend/index.html This is a NEW URL. You can also still get there from http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka The National (USA) Honey Board Database is also there to brouse or download. Most logs going back to 1991 are available the sites. If you have web access, either by PPP and a graphical brouser or by lynx (a UNIX brouser available on many UNIX shell accounts by typing the command 'lynx'), this is the fast, simple way to go. 2.) For those with no web access, logs are also available quite conveniently by email from LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU However they only go back to 1994. Due to the increasing size of recent logs and limited space on the LISTSERV, the older logs have been displaced. To have a BEE-L log emailed to you: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Just send a message with no subject (subject lines are ignored) to LISTSERV@uacsc2.albany.edu with the message GET BEE-L LOGMMYY Where MM is the month (ie. 05 for May) and YY is the year (ie. 95 for 1995). Additional logs requested can be added on up to four more lines in your message. Be aware of the spacing of the words (No space in LOG9505, for example). Leave out any other text -- such as .signatures. Additional text - other than lines with additional commands -- will trigger harmless error messages from the LISTSERV. The log will arrive some time later in your mailbox. Warning: logs can be as much 650 K in size! 3. Dave Clayton and friends have compiled a new beekeeping book list which is now at my www site: http://www.internode.net/~allend/booklist.html We expect this list will grow and add features in the future. Please contribute your ideas and comments to: Dave Clayton Note: To ensure more compact future logs, please edit the quotes in your contributions to BEE-L - and leave off vanity signatures - thanks. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, Art, & Futures ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 18:58:48 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: Philosophical issues re: DL theory. In-Reply-To: <9601252349.AA04368@antares.cc.umanitoba.ca> On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Phil Veldhuis wrote: > Tom_Elliott@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US insightfully writes: > > > That is proponents of the theory design experiments to prove > > their belief and explain away the arguments of the opponents. > > Of course, lack of success carries a lesson too. If your experimental > designs continue to fail, you might just give up. One of the tough things about theories is that most are impossible to *prove* and often nearly impossible to disprove. Generally, all one can do is to build up a case for or against, which is convincing against all challenges. Often, the best way to build up that case is to challenge one's own beliefs. (I guess that's why so many scientists are religious sceptics). Of course if you manage to disprove your own theory it can be severely crushing, which maybe explains why, sometimes, people fail to "see the obvious". > Why we probably all have our doubts in the wake of the OJ simpson thing, > the law system is based on the adversarial system because it does tend to > produce the truth. That is, two well meaning individuals, who are both > deeply motivated by their commitment to their theory, will accomplish > more opposed to each other, than if they both were just objective in > motive. Showing that the same applies to proof in law as in science (and in engineering, my discpline). I'm not sure of the wordings in US or Canadian law, but in the UK it's "guilty _beyond all reasonable doubt_". The problem is in discovering or interpreting "reasonable doubt". Regards, -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Hampshire, England. gordon@multitone.co.uk Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan; Sometime sailor. The Basingstoke Beekeeper (newsletter) beekeeper@apis.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:02:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Unapproved Mite Treatments As to the use of Formic Acid for U.S. for Varroa mite control, it was mentioned at yesterday's Maryland Beekeeper's Association meeting that Formic Acid may be registered in the US by the end of the year. Also discussed was the experimental work of one of our beekeepers on controlling Varroa with peppermint and wintergreen oils- sounds promising. As to someone admitting that he knowingly used an illegal chemical on a public list like BEE-L, I think it unlikely. I'm sure that at least one of our subscribers works for some sort of pesticide law enforcement agency, or would otherwise be in a position to raise a big stink about what (I hope) would be an isolated incident. Remember the Alar fiasco, folks? W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:39:31 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vladimir Ptacek Subject: Re: Unapproved Mite Treatments On Sun, 28 Jan 1996 03:57:36 -0800, John Caldeira wrote: >Are Mavrik, Spur and other forms of fluvalinate, or formic acid, commonly >used to treat varroa-infested hives in the U.S.? I realize these treatments >are not currently approved for use with bees in the U.S., but does the cost >difference between Apistan and these unapproved treatments provide a strong >temptation for commercial beekeepers? > >How widespread is the use of unapproved treatments? Would appreciate >learning from any speculation and/or knowledge on this. > >Public or private E-mail. > >Thanks, > >John Caldeira >jcaldeira@earthlink.net > >John Caldeira >Dallas, Texas Here, in the Czech Republic we never used Apistan to control Varroas, and after more than 10 years of their presence in the coutry we still have nearly the same level of colony numbers. An effective complex of different methods has been applied with the aim to use as little chemicals as possible. Those of you interested in details write dirrectly to the Institute for Beekeeping at Dol, 252 66 Libcice n. Vlt., Czech Republic Best regards, Vladimir Ptacek ---------------------------------------------------------------- Fac. Sci., Dpt. Anim. Physiol. E.mail: ptacek@sci.muni.cz Masaryk University phone: .42/5/41129 562 611 37 Brno, Czech Republic fax: .42/5/41211 214 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 07:49:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: Waxworm ?culture? I never thought I'd need it but now someone has asked. I remember culture methods being discussed a few months back. Can someone point me to the particular month's log or send the info direct if you have saved a file of just that info and have it available. I need to look into search engines to scan the log files. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, VP LIBA + + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:24:14 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "THONE HUGO SE14 (240)9452" Subject: Re: Unapproved Mite Treatments In-Reply-To: <31178.ptacek@elanor.sci.muni.cz> Please send me more details on your method of beekeeping. TIA Hugo +++++ Hugo Thone (SE144) ALCATEL TELECOM (\ email : thoneh@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be F.Wellesplein 1 {|||8- phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 B-2018 Antwerp (/ fax : (32) 3 240 99 50 do bee do bee do .... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:08:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Cassidy Subject: "B address" Kevin, the address for the B list is: listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu The name of the list is BEE-L. Get on by sending message: Subscribe BEE-L Firstname Lastname Fr. James History Department Saint Anselm College jcassidy@hawk.anselm.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:48:06 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *"Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, but to * * think what no one else has thought." - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:41:30 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Pseudomessage >Your message dated Mon, 29 Jan 96 11:48:06 PST with no subject has been >successfully distributed to the BEE-L list (492 recipients). Please accept my apologies. I replied with a complete lack of a message by mistake. Never fear, though, I will be responding sometime soon with some comments about all the traffic regarding the bee language controversy. With all best wishes to those who have joined in. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *"Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, but to * * think what no one else has thought." - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:39:55 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: Specific value of honeybees for crop pollination I am trying to develop a value on the pollination of honeybees to the state of Colorado. I have done this in the past using a combination of published crop values and some figures on the crop's dependence on honeybees for pollination. The figures when I crunch the numbers are very impressive - adding in excess of $20 million(US)/yr directly for crops grown within the state dependent on pollinating insects (apples, melons, etc.) and a $240 million/yr indirect value for crops that are grown within the state and require pollinating insects to product their seed (e.g., onions, carrots...) I am doing this using state Agricultural Statistics figures combined with some figures that I inherited from Bob Simpson, a beekeeper and former Professor at Colorado State. (Bob unfortunately passed away last December.) The values that he had provided included 1) percentage of the crop that was dependent on insects for pollination; and 2) the percentage of the pollinating insects that were honeybees. However, I have no idea where the above figures on pollination value came from (e.g., percentage of crop dependent on insects for pollination/percentage of pollinators that are honeybees). My question: What is a good reference that estimates the dependence of crops on pollination by insects and by honeybees? I need specific values (e.g., 80% dependent on insect pollination; 50% dependent on honeybees as the insect pollinator). There is some urgency to this request as the Legislature is about to consider a bill naming a "State Insect". The honeybee has been proposed. (Eleven other states have the honeybee as their state insect.) Your assistance is appreciated. Whitney Cranshaw wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu P.S. I also appreciate those that responded to my last question regarding "Le soufflet", a purported beekeepers tool listed in a children's book I was looking over. Apparently it is a bellows used to assist in moving the smoke of the smoker, before the two functions were combined in a modern smoker. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:41:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg Holley Subject: beginner in MD I recently met a person interested in getting started with honeybees this spring. Could some one please provide me with the closest local bee association and a contact person in the Upper Marlboro, MD area? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:30:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Tubing feeders In-Reply-To: <960129194101_209466951@emout04.mail.aol.com> Several years ago there was a product advertised as "The hive Fountain". I remember seeing a barrel of syrup with plastic tubing connected to each hive. Does anyone out there have any experience with this system, or what the pricipal of operation was? I'm wondering what kept the syrup from just running into the hive. bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb b b b Vince & Carole Coppola vcoppola@epix.net b b Coppola Apiaries, (716)965-2904 b b 10220 Bradigan Rd. b b Forestville, N.Y. 14062 b b b b Western New York Beekeepers Association b b b bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:29:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Wayne E. Esaias" Subject: Re: Tubing feeders Vince Coppola wrote: Several years ago there was a product advertised as "The hive >Fountain". I remember seeing a barrel of syrup with plastic tubing >connected to each hive. Does anyone out there have any experience with >this system, or what the pricipal of operation was? I'm wondering what >kept the syrup from just running into the hive. Probably just air pressure. Was the barrel on top? On a variation, one of our club members has fed his colonies with a tube feeder made from one of the new plastic containers with a flexible plastic straw (maybe 1/4 - 5/16" diameter),like a large plastic glass for soft drinks, with Washington Redskin logos, etc. He places it above the inner cover, with the tube going through the oblong hole, between the frames, right into the cluster. It works like a hampster watering device, and has the advantage that the bees don't have to break the cluster to get the syrup. He was pleased with how it worked. I haven't tried it myself. Wayne Esaias Highland (Howard Co.) Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:48:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 28 Jan 1996 to 29 Jan 1996 > There are 9 messages totalling 228 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. Unapproved Mite Treatments (2) > 2. Waxworm ?culture? > 3. "B address" > 4. > 5. Pseudomessage > 6. Specific value of honeybees for crop pollination > 7. beginner in MD > 8. Tubing feeders > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:39:31 CST > From: Vladimir Ptacek > Subject: Re: Unapproved Mite Treatments > > On Sun, 28 Jan 1996 03:57:36 -0800, John Caldeira wrote: > > >Are Mavrik, Spur and other forms of fluvalinate, or formic acid, commonly > >used to treat varroa-infested hives in the U.S.? I realize these treatments > >are not currently approved for use with bees in the U.S., but does the cost > >difference between Apistan and these unapproved treatments provide a strong > >temptation for commercial beekeepers? > > > >How widespread is the use of unapproved treatments? Would appreciate > >learning from any speculation and/or knowledge on this. > > > >Public or private E-mail. > > > >Thanks, > > > >John Caldeira > >jcaldeira@earthlink.net > > > >John Caldeira > >Dallas, Texas > > Here, in the Czech Republic we never used Apistan to control Varroas, and > after more than 10 years of their presence in the coutry we still have > nearly the same level of colony numbers. An effective complex of different > methods has been applied with the aim to use as little chemicals > as possible. > Those of you interested in details write dirrectly to the > Institute for Beekeeping at Dol, > 252 66 Libcice n. Vlt., > Czech Republic > > Best regards, > Vladimir Ptacek > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Fac. Sci., Dpt. Anim. Physiol. E.mail: ptacek@sci.muni.cz > Masaryk University phone: .42/5/41129 562 > 611 37 Brno, Czech Republic fax: .42/5/41211 214 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 07:49:17 -0500 > From: Ray Lackey > Subject: Waxworm ?culture? > > I never thought I'd need it but now someone has asked. I remember > culture methods being discussed a few months back. Can someone point > me to the particular month's log or send the info direct if you have > saved a file of just that info and have it available. I need to look > into search engines to scan the log files. > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, VP LIBA + > + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ > + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + > + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + > + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:24:14 +0100 > From: "THONE HUGO SE14 (240)9452" > Subject: Re: Unapproved Mite Treatments > > Please send me more details on your method of beekeeping. > TIA > > Hugo > > +++++ > > Hugo Thone (SE144) > ALCATEL TELECOM (\ email : thoneh@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be > F.Wellesplein 1 {|||8- phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 > B-2018 Antwerp (/ fax : (32) 3 240 99 50 > > do bee do bee do .... > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:08:43 -0500 > From: James Cassidy > Subject: "B address" > > Kevin, the address for the B list is: > > listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu > > The name of the list is BEE-L. > > Get on by sending message: Subscribe BEE-L Firstname Lastname > > Fr. James > > History Department > Saint Anselm College > jcassidy@hawk.anselm.edu > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:48:06 PST > From: Adrian Wenner > Subject: > > *************************************************************** > * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * > * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * > * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * > * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * > * * > *"Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, but to * > * think what no one else has thought." - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * > *************************************************************** > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:41:30 PST > From: Adrian Wenner > Subject: Re: Pseudomessage > > >Your message dated Mon, 29 Jan 96 11:48:06 PST with no subject has been > >successfully distributed to the BEE-L list (492 recipients). > > Please accept my apologies. I replied with a complete lack of a message > by mistake. Never fear, though, I will be responding sometime soon with > some comments about all the traffic regarding the bee language controversy. > > > With all best wishes to those who have joined in. > > Adrian > > > *************************************************************** > * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * > * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * > * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * > * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * > * * > *"Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, but to * > * think what no one else has thought." - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * > *************************************************************** > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:39:55 -0700 > From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" > Subject: Specific value of honeybees for crop pollination > > I am trying to develop a value on the pollination of honeybees to the state > of Colorado. I have done this in the past using a combination of published > crop values and some figures on the crop's dependence on honeybees for > pollination. The figures when I crunch the numbers are very impressive - > adding in excess of $20 million(US)/yr directly for crops grown within the > state dependent on pollinating insects (apples, melons, etc.) and a $240 > million/yr indirect value for crops that are grown within the state and > require pollinating insects to product their seed (e.g., onions, carrots...) > > I am doing this using state Agricultural Statistics figures combined with > some figures that I inherited from Bob Simpson, a beekeeper and former > Professor at Colorado State. (Bob unfortunately passed away last December.) > The values that he had provided included 1) percentage of the crop that was > dependent on insects for pollination; and 2) the percentage of the > pollinating insects that were honeybees. > > However, I have no idea where the above figures on pollination value came > from (e.g., percentage of crop dependent on insects for > pollination/percentage of pollinators that are honeybees). > > My question: > > What is a good reference that estimates the dependence of crops on > pollination by insects and by honeybees? I need specific values (e.g., 80% > dependent on insect pollination; 50% dependent on honeybees as the insect > pollinator). > > There is some urgency to this request as the Legislature is about to > consider a bill naming a "State Insect". The honeybee has been proposed. > (Eleven other states have the honeybee as their state insect.) > > Your assistance is appreciated. > > Whitney Cranshaw > wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu > > P.S. I also appreciate those that responded to my last question regarding > "Le soufflet", a purported beekeepers tool listed in a children's book I was > looking over. Apparently it is a bellows used to assist in moving the smoke > of the smoker, before the two functions were combined in a modern smoker. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:41:07 -0500 > From: Greg Holley > Subject: beginner in MD > > I recently met a person interested in getting started with honeybees this > spring. Could some one please provide me with the closest local bee > association and a contact person in the Upper Marlboro, MD area? > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:30:22 -0500 > From: Vince Coppola > Subject: Tubing feeders > > Several years ago there was a product advertised as "The hive > Fountain". I remember seeing a barrel of syrup with plastic tubing > connected to each hive. Does anyone out there have any experience with > this system, or what the pricipal of operation was? I'm wondering what > kept the syrup from just running into the hive. > > bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb > b b > b Vince & Carole Coppola vcoppola@epix.net b > b Coppola Apiaries, (716)965-2904 b > b 10220 Bradigan Rd. b > b Forestville, N.Y. 14062 b > b b > b Western New York Beekeepers Association b > b b > bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb > > ------------------------------ > > End of BEE-L Digest - 28 Jan 1996 to 29 Jan 1996 > ************************************************ > FOR THE BEEGINNER IN MD. HAL LIBERMAN, BEE DEALER, LIVES IN YOUR AREA, UPPER MARLBORO. CHECK HIM OUT IN PHONE BOOK TO HEAR HIS MESSAGE. HE'S SELLING OUT AND MOVING OUT. BONNE CHANCE. JACK THE B-MAN John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * of gold." --Shakespeare Ellicott City MD 21042 usa * 20 Italian colonies ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org * 3-1/2 decades in beedom ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:54:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN IANNUZZI Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 28 Jan 1996 to 29 Jan 1996 > There are 9 messages totalling 228 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. Unapproved Mite Treatments (2) > 2. Waxworm ?culture? > 3. "B address" > 4. > 5. Pseudomessage > 6. Specific value of honeybees for crop pollination > 7. beginner in MD > 8. Tubing feeders > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:39:31 CST > From: Vladimir Ptacek > Subject: Re: Unapproved Mite Treatments > > On Sun, 28 Jan 1996 03:57:36 -0800, John Caldeira wrote: > > >Are Mavrik, Spur and other forms of fluvalinate, or formic acid, commonly > >used to treat varroa-infested hives in the U.S.? I realize these treatments > >are not currently approved for use with bees in the U.S., but does the cost > >difference between Apistan and these unapproved treatments provide a strong > >temptation for commercial beekeepers? > > > >How widespread is the use of unapproved treatments? Would appreciate > >learning from any speculation and/or knowledge on this. > > > >Public or private E-mail. > > > >Thanks, > > > >John Caldeira > >jcaldeira@earthlink.net > > > >John Caldeira > >Dallas, Texas > > Here, in the Czech Republic we never used Apistan to control Varroas, and > after more than 10 years of their presence in the coutry we still have > nearly the same level of colony numbers. An effective complex of different > methods has been applied with the aim to use as little chemicals > as possible. > Those of you interested in details write dirrectly to the > Institute for Beekeeping at Dol, > 252 66 Libcice n. Vlt., > Czech Republic > > Best regards, > Vladimir Ptacek > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Fac. Sci., Dpt. Anim. Physiol. E.mail: ptacek@sci.muni.cz > Masaryk University phone: .42/5/41129 562 > 611 37 Brno, Czech Republic fax: .42/5/41211 214 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 07:49:17 -0500 > From: Ray Lackey > Subject: Waxworm ?culture? > > I never thought I'd need it but now someone has asked. I remember > culture methods being discussed a few months back. Can someone point > me to the particular month's log or send the info direct if you have > saved a file of just that info and have it available. I need to look > into search engines to scan the log files. > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, VP LIBA + > + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ > + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + > + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + > + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:24:14 +0100 > From: "THONE HUGO SE14 (240)9452" > Subject: Re: Unapproved Mite Treatments > > Please send me more details on your method of beekeeping. > TIA > > Hugo > > +++++ > > Hugo Thone (SE144) > ALCATEL TELECOM (\ email : thoneh@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be > F.Wellesplein 1 {|||8- phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 > B-2018 Antwerp (/ fax : (32) 3 240 99 50 > > do bee do bee do .... > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:08:43 -0500 > From: James Cassidy > Subject: "B address" > > Kevin, the address for the B list is: > > listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu > > The name of the list is BEE-L. > > Get on by sending message: Subscribe BEE-L Firstname Lastname > > Fr. James > > History Department > Saint Anselm College > jcassidy@hawk.anselm.edu > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:48:06 PST > From: Adrian Wenner > Subject: > > *************************************************************** > * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * > * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * > * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * > * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * > * * > *"Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, but to * > * think what no one else has thought." - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * > *************************************************************** > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:41:30 PST > From: Adrian Wenner > Subject: Re: Pseudomessage > > >Your message dated Mon, 29 Jan 96 11:48:06 PST with no subject has been > >successfully distributed to the BEE-L list (492 recipients). > > Please accept my apologies. I replied with a complete lack of a message > by mistake. Never fear, though, I will be responding sometime soon with > some comments about all the traffic regarding the bee language controversy. > > > With all best wishes to those who have joined in. > > Adrian > > > *************************************************************** > * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * > * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * > * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * > * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * > * * > *"Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, but to * > * think what no one else has thought." - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * > *************************************************************** > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:39:55 -0700 > From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" > Subject: Specific value of honeybees for crop pollination > > I am trying to develop a value on the pollination of honeybees to the state > of Colorado. I have done this in the past using a combination of published > crop values and some figures on the crop's dependence on honeybees for > pollination. The figures when I crunch the numbers are very impressive - > adding in excess of $20 million(US)/yr directly for crops grown within the > state dependent on pollinating insects (apples, melons, etc.) and a $240 > million/yr indirect value for crops that are grown within the state and > require pollinating insects to product their seed (e.g., onions, carrots...) > > I am doing this using state Agricultural Statistics figures combined with > some figures that I inherited from Bob Simpson, a beekeeper and former > Professor at Colorado State. (Bob unfortunately passed away last December.) > The values that he had provided included 1) percentage of the crop that was > dependent on insects for pollination; and 2) the percentage of the > pollinating insects that were honeybees. > > However, I have no idea where the above figures on pollination value came > from (e.g., percentage of crop dependent on insects for > pollination/percentage of pollinators that are honeybees). > > My question: > > What is a good reference that estimates the dependence of crops on > pollination by insects and by honeybees? I need specific values (e.g., 80% > dependent on insect pollination; 50% dependent on honeybees as the insect > pollinator). > > There is some urgency to this request as the Legislature is about to > consider a bill naming a "State Insect". The honeybee has been proposed. > (Eleven other states have the honeybee as their state insect.) > > Your assistance is appreciated. > > Whitney Cranshaw > wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu > > P.S. I also appreciate those that responded to my last question regarding > "Le soufflet", a purported beekeepers tool listed in a children's book I was > looking over. Apparently it is a bellows used to assist in moving the smoke > of the smoker, before the two functions were combined in a modern smoker. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:41:07 -0500 > From: Greg Holley > Subject: beginner in MD > > I recently met a person interested in getting started with honeybees this > spring. Could some one please provide me with the closest local bee > association and a contact person in the Upper Marlboro, MD area? > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:30:22 -0500 > From: Vince Coppola > Subject: Tubing feeders > > Several years ago there was a product advertised as "The hive > Fountain". I remember seeing a barrel of syrup with plastic tubing > connected to each hive. Does anyone out there have any experience with > this system, or what the pricipal of operation was? I'm wondering what > kept the syrup from just running into the hive. > > bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb > b b > b Vince & Carole Coppola vcoppola@epix.net b > b Coppola Apiaries, (716)965-2904 b > b 10220 Bradigan Rd. b > b Forestville, N.Y. 14062 b > b b > b Western New York Beekeepers Association b > b b > bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb > > ------------------------------ > > End of BEE-L Digest - 28 Jan 1996 to 29 Jan 1996 > ************************************************ > REPLY. The same principle, I think, that keeps the Boardman entrance feeder from emptying into the hive: the creation of a vacuum-- unless the size of the different holes involved is critical? PS BTW, I'm a philosopher and not a physicist. Jack the B-man John Iannuzzi PhD * "Singing masons building roofs 9772 Old Annapolis Rd * of gold." --Shakespeare Ellicott City MD 21042 usa * 20 Italian colonies ji0079@epfl2.epflbalto.org * 3-1/2 decades in beedom ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:21:26 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Re: Tubing feeders > Several years ago there was a product advertised as "The hive >Fountain". I remember seeing a barrel of syrup with plastic tubing >connected to each hive. Does anyone out there have any experience with >this system, or what the pricipal of operation was? I'm wondering what >kept the syrup from just running into the hive. > > bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb > b b > b Vince & Carole Coppola vcoppola@epix.net b > b Coppola Apiaries, (716)965-2904 b > b 10220 Bradigan Rd. b > b Forestville, N.Y. 14062 b > b b > b Western New York Beekeepers Association b > b b > bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb > > I used a similar set-up last year. The drum must remain sealed at the top and the vacuum at the top keeps the syrup from running out the various tubes. This is similar to a large Hampster water jar you can see at pet stores. As the volume of syrup decreases, the bees will start working up the tube to get the syrup. If the level of the syrup goes below the top tube, the syrup will run out the other tubes since the vacuum is broken. I ran the tubing through a ventalation hole in the hive body. The hole gives ventalation in the summer and a method of getting the syrup into the middle of the hive in the winter. I don't know if this is best, but it seemed to work for me. It worked quite well for me. I used a 5 gallon plastic jug and I see no reason a larger barrel wouldn't work. I used tubes (0.25 to 0.5 inch id clear nalgene) running to 5 hives I attached valves to each tube to allow a method of turning off the syrup. The tubing needs to be a straight shot to the hives with no low spots to catch the syrup. Temperature was my biggest problem. The syrup would become thick enough that the viscosity would not allow the syrup to run out the tubing to the bee hives. That is when I would have to use the larger tubing. When it warmed up I would go back to the smaller tubing. Here in Oklahoma, the winter is not too long and I could use the smaller feeder and I don't have a large number of hives (15) to worry with feeding. The feeder allowed me to monitor the food used by the hives without having to open the hive or mess with smaller entrance feeders. Good Luck Richard Barnes rbarnes@halnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:23:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Honey Via the Web we have had a request from this gentleman for bulk honey, can anyone help him please. >Edward Davis >Davis' Baskets >365 Natick Ave >Warwick RI 02886 >Eddie@BusinessOn.com **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1.* * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:51:04 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Thales Cunha Subject: Software to apiculture I am resending my message because I had trouble receiving the previous answers. I would like to know if there is any software about apiaries management (all aspects involving the apiculture activity). I hope my address is correct now. Thanks, Thales Thales Cunha thalespc@conex.com.br Porto Alegre - RS - Brasil ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:13:54 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Jensen Subject: JOHN IANNUZZI was Re: BEE-L Digest - 28 Jan 1996 to 29 Jan 1996 At 5:48 AM 1/30/96, JOHN IANNUZZI wrote: >> There are 9 messages totalling 228 lines in this issue. Will someone please teach John how to properly use the reply function of his mail reader? I have urged him to not include the whole message in his replies, and he said he did not know how to do that. God help us, he now appears to be getting the digest. Someone stop him before he replies again. Mark Jensen-Double J Apiaries mjensen@crl.com Los Altos Hills, CA, USA fax 415 941 3488 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:37:19 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Bee Language? HONEY BEE LANGUAGE? Last fall someone bemoaned the fact that most discussion on the BEE-L network centered too much on practical matters and too little on more substantive issues. This past week a focus on the bee language controversy seems to have altered that picture. Since I have been center-stage much of the time (though fairly quiet, for me), I feel it appropriate to provide comment. To begin, consider a Bruno Latour comment (as on p. 353 in our book, ANATOMY OF A CONTROVERSY.... --- cited earlier in the abstract posted): "We have to understand first how many elements can be brought to bear on a controversy; once this is understood, the other problems will be easier to solve." In the exchange we have had about bee "language" over the BEE-L and SOCINST networks several issues have emerged, including the following: 1) "Objectivity" Despite popular opinion, objectivity simply doesn't seem possible. Emile Duclaux (a biographer of Pasteur) wrote (p. 31 in our book): "However broad-minded one may be, he is always to some extent the slave of his education and of his past." With five decades of indoctrination about bee language (professors, teachers, textbooks, Nature films, etc.), can anyone view evidence counter to that notion without some degree of bias? For a comment on this, we can turn to Peter Medawar (p. 228 in our book): "It is a common failing...to fall in love with a hypothesis and to be unwilling to take no for an answer....There is very often no finally decisive yes, though quite often there can be a decisive no." 2) "Consensus" and "Authority" Scientists frequently invoke consensus and authority in efforts to "resolve" controversy, as in one Internet message: "The consensus is that the story is true." Consensus, as well as dismissal by authoritative scientists (aided by misapplication of our anonymous referee system), can easily shift opinion toward one side of a controversy. With e-mail, though, we have less control over expression. (Are scientists ready for democracy?) However, gaining the upper hand (achieving consensus) does not necessarily resolve a controversy, because Nature pays little heed to our theories. Furthermore, evidence usually matters little during the heat of a controversy. Proponents of a hypothesis embrace one set of evidence. Opponents focus on other evidence. If bees really had a language and that notion had helped beekeepers this past five decades, the controversy would have been resolved long ago. The disparate views aired during this Internet exchange indicate quite clearly that consensus no longer exists (if it ever really did!). Mark Twain addressed the notion of scientific consensus long ago in his essay: "Dr. Loeb's Incredible Discovery": "Whatever new thing a Consensus [bets against], bet your money on that very card and do not be afraid." 3) The conduct of science. Some of the "hard sciences" have a tradition in which supportive evidence does not matter much if a hypothesis fails a real test (witness "Cold Fusion" research). In this recent network exchange we have read about an "overwhelming body of supportive evidence." That is true; one can easily obtain evidence in support of the bee language hypothesis. The trouble: there is also now an overwhelming body of negative evidence --- as outlined in my previous post of the abstract published last month. One can neither prove a hypothesis true nor prove it false. That is why we did not claim in our book that we had "proved" bees do not have a language. By placing test stations to ascertain where recruits search in one area of the environment but not in all other areas, one actually alters the natural system (the Heisenberg principle of indeterminacy). Anyone who claims to have run an experiment and found "truth" remains on shaky ground indeed. Predictabilty (learning what will happen under novel circumstances), rather than repeatabilty (gathering ever more "supportive" evidence) leads to progress in science. For a summary of that attitude, I refer people to our 1991 review article in the AMERICAN ZOOLOGIST (as cited in the abstract posted earlier). 4) The elusive bee language hypothesis. A honey bee dance language hypothesis no longer seems to exist. In 1970 I searched the literature (including all of von Frisch's writings) for a concise statement of that hypothesis but could not find one. Accordingly, 25 years ago I published what appears to be the one and only formal statement of that hypothesis. Patrick Wells and I republished that statement (p. 64 of our 1990 book). Since that time no one has challenged that version of the hypothesis, as far as we know. In scientific research, a clearly stated hypothesis is essential. What we have now on this bee language notion, however, is defense of an ill-defined concept that no one seems willing to state concisely (or a willingness to acknowledge that my formal statement holds). In the past few years I have asked several bee researchers to write down exactly what THEY now mean by the bee language "story" but have yet to receive a reply. 5) The relative weight of evidence. One point seems to have become lost: The burden of proof for those who wish to believe in bee "language" (a highly improbable possibility --- one and only one insect species that can interpret and act on symbols?) falls more heavily on proponents of that idea than on those who accept results in conflict with that view (such as the 16 points in my distributed abstract). ******** I am sorry to have gone on so long, but beekeepers might not mind --- most of them wait longingly for spring and the chance to work once again with their most interesting creatures. In subsequent postings I will elaborate on some of the above points. In the meantime I thank Phil Veldhuis, Allen Dick, Julian O'Dea, Steve Bambara, and Gordon Scott. Their comments indicate that we have anything but consensus on the issue of bee "language." I also thank Doug Yanega for stimulating input, as well as Julian O'Dea and Fred Dyer for their efforts to dismiss the issue of personalities in this matter. Adrian *************************************************************** * Adrian Wenner E-Mail wenner@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu * * Dept.Ecol.,Evol.,& Mar.Biol. Office Phone (805) 893-2838 * * University of California Lab Phone (805) 893-2675 * * Santa Barbara, CA 93106 FAX (805) 893-8062 * * * *"Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, but to * * think what no one else has thought." - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:00:23 AST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom_Elliott@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US Subject: New Honeybee Virus? One (we only have one) Alaska "Director" (not sure of proper terminology) for the ABF has returned to his local association with dire warnings of some new virus infecting honeybees. This virus, according to him is a worse threat than the mites. I would very much like to hear more about this viral threat. What is known about it? Does it exist? I have heard nothing about it on the List so far. Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska Tom_Elliott_at_ANCAV1@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:12:51 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Yanega Subject: Re: Bee Language? Comments: cc: SOCINSCT@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Well, since Dr. Wenner has been so kind as to thank me personally, I'll draw his (and other readers') attention to something of which he may not be aware: >5) The relative weight of evidence. > > One point seems to have become lost: The burden of proof for those who >wish to believe in bee "language" (a highly improbable possibility --- one >and only one insect species that can interpret and act on symbols?) falls >more heavily on proponents of that idea than on those who accept results in >conflict with that view (such as the 16 points in my distributed abstract). There are several different species of Apis, and two of them (andreniformis and florea) even have a characteristic "dance" on a horizontal surface, pointing towards the food source. It's more than "one insect species", it is an entire evolutionary lineage (frequently considered a tribe). More significantly, a recent paper should be noted: Nieh, JC & Roubik, DW. 1995. A stingless bee (Melipona panamica) indicates food location without using a scent trail. Behav. Ecol. Sociobiol. 37: 63-70. In essence, the "controversy" can now be expanded to include some other social Apidae in which a returning forager inside the nest "produces pulsed sounds while visibly vibrating her wings after returning from a good food source. She is attended by other bees who cluster and hold their antennae around her, following her as she rapidly spins clockwise and counterclockwise". Does this description sound familiar to anyone? The wrinkle here is that direction of the resource is thought to be indicated "through pointing zig-zag flights outside the nest" (also should sound familiar), or "foragers may also directly lead newcomers to the food source". They can also recruit to a specific canopy level, in addition to distance and direction. This is not some simple, trivial, matter here - it is a set of complex behaviors present in one entire clade, and there is evidence for a potentially homologous set of behaviors in a related clade. We also have enough data on the stingless bees as a group to suggest an evolutionary progression of recruitment behaviors to a point that is *remarkably* similar to the simplest systems seen in Apis. I find this compelling evidence that what we see in Apis is indeed an evolved form of recruitment behavior, and not simply a matter of foragers reinforcing their own spatial memory. I agree that the *amount* of information that is effectively communicated is debatable, as is the *use* to which that information is put (that is, there is no requirement that EVERY recruit is responding to dance information, only that SOME do, nor is it required that the dance information by itself is sufficient to find a precise spatial locality, only that it narrows down the search area). I have every confidence that folks will ultimately be able to resolve these issues to everyone's satisfaction. Sincerely, Doug Yanega Illinois Natural History Survey, 607 E. Peabody Dr. Champaign, IL 61820 USA phone (217) 244-6817, fax (217) 333-4949 affiliate, Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, Dept. of Entomology "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:33:29 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Bee Language? Well spoken. Personally, I think you can write as much as you like and post it - *especially* seeing as most of this months BEE-L log (565K) is made up of headers, long signatures, Ridiculously long quotes, flames, etc. ;-) (For the humour impaired: I'm trying to be funny here). It's nice to have a good debate on a central issue. As a beekeeper. I feel that the belief that bees can find anything anywhere and communicate the news of it it efficiently and quickly enough for maximum exploitation of the resource has served us extremely badly and cost us all a lot of money. Understanding how bees really find things is very important. I'm just getting involved with pollination and am amazed at the chances people take that the bees will actually work the target crop. Believing in the dance theory excuses negligence, I think. Don't get me wrong: the bees are obviously doing *something* on the comb, it does look like dancing and and it does appear to relate to the location of food source, or a new home in the case of a swarm, but I don't think we understand the linkage. I'll allow that there is reason to suspect that there *is* some realtionship. Proof is the problem. The theory fails us far too often IMO. Cause and effect are sometimes hard to prove - especially if the linkage is weak, occasional, or dependant on other factor(s) outside the field of observation. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:52:35 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Fred C. Dyer" Subject: Re: Bee Language? Comments: To: SOCINSCT@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Doug Yanega made some interesting and worthwhile points in response to the following passage in Adrian's message: >>5) The relative weight of evidence. >> >> One point seems to have become lost: The burden of proof for those who >>wish to believe in bee "language" (a highly improbable possibility --- one >>and only one insect species that can interpret and act on symbols?) falls >>more heavily on proponents of that idea than on those who accept results in >>conflict with that view (such as the 16 points in my distributed abstract). Doug is right to point out that all species in the genus Apis have dances, that there are some interesting interspecific differences among these dances, and that related bee taxa exhibit behaviors that partially resemble Apis dances in various ways. I would like to attack this argument in a different way: even if only one species exhibited the behavior, the taxonomic rarity of a trait provides no evidence whatsoever that it is "improbable". Should we be skeptical of the bipedalism, hairlessness, and language of humans (to name just three autapomorphic human traits) simply because one and only one primate species exhibits these traits? Should we be skeptical of the intercontinental migration of monarch butterflies to an isolated set of mountaintops simply because one and only one insect species (that we know of) exhibits this trait? Fred ------------------------------------------------------------ Fred C. Dyer | Internet: Department of Biology 0116 | fdyer@jeeves.ucsd.edu University of California, San Diego | fcdyer@msu.edu 9500 Gilman Drive | Phone: 619-534-4787 La Jolla, CA 92093-0116 | Fax: 619-534-7108 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:53:16 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Helen Du Mont Subject: Market Prices Can someone direct me to a source for market prices for honey, beeswax, pollen? H. du Mont Wilmington, Vermont (hdu1@sover.net) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:58:53 +0000 Reply-To: P.Wright@ed.ac.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Wright Subject: Bee-Language & Practical Use for Beekeepers Adrian Wenner writes, " If bees really had a language and that notion had helped beekeepers this past five decades," the implication being that presence and use of a language by honeybees, would clearly be of use to beekeepers. I would like to be directed to any literature which has examined this applied aspect of the language controversy. As a psychologist and a beekeeper, I have always been very intrigued by the experimental evidence both for and against bee language. I have always been convinced that Gould's paper in Science vol 189 pp685 in 1975 in which he describes a very elegant "lie" experiment with his ocelli masked dancers communicating an incorrect location to unmasked followers, as a rather impressive support for the language idea. But this is a digression, my real point is why should beekeepers be interested in the language unless it can be demonstrated to them that it has practical value. For example, Have there been any attempts with observation hives to demonstrate individual differences between hives in both the frequency of dances and the resultant increase in colony weight? Has anyone attempted to selectively breed from colonies which do show vigourous dances? Here in Scotland we have a foraging situation where certainly the dance language would be very beneficial. It is foraging from the heather moors. Here in August bees are placed often at the centre of many hundreds of acres of heather. The heather will yield nectar on a patchy basis. There are often no landmarks (no trees, no buildings, no rivers) and the olfactory cues simply swamp out any directional component because they are so omnipresent. The colony which can therefore locate and recruit to the yield patches will obviously store more nectar, and the dance language may be the means by which this is achieved. peter Wright ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:20:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: New Honeybee Virus? In-Reply-To: <9600318231.AA823108299@jhqnov.dot.state.ak.us> On Wed, 31 Jan 1996 Tom_Elliott@JHQNOV.DOT.STATE.AK.US wrote: > One (we only have one) Alaska "Director" (not sure of proper > terminology) for the ABF has returned to his local association with > dire warnings of some new virus infecting honeybees. This virus, > according to him is a worse threat than the mites. I would very much > like to hear more about this viral threat. What is known about it? > Does it exist? I have heard nothing about it on the List so far. > Hello Tom, I believe he is refering to what Dr. Shimanuki calls PMS,(parisitic mite syndrome). Symptoms are similar to brood dieases like AFB,EFB, chilled brood, but not exactly. There is debate over the exact cause of these symptoms but some research indicates that viruses are being spread by varroa mites. The viruses found in affected brood and adults are not "new viruses" but have existed externaly on honeybees. There are good papers by Dr. Brenda Ball that deal with this, I think you can get them from IBRA. Also,their books "Living with Varroa"and "Perspectives on Varroa" are excellent. This past fall many of our bees were in poor condition or dead with these symptoms. In two yards with about 35 col. each, there were only 7-9 alive at my last fall visit. I expect near 100% loss in these yards. Overall, about 20% of my bees were dead. All of these had PMS. In addition, 35% of the live col. had PMS. I don't expect a good spring. This condition is all over New York State, and I've heard it may be common all across the north. The problem exists in operations with various treatment history. Some treated with used stips(Apistan), some with one new and one used strip, and one of my friends treated with two new strips this spring and he also has problems. There is alot of speculation about the effectiveness of Apistan and some people think the manufacturer is skimping on the active ingredient. Personaly, I doubt if that would be worth it to them. I'm not even sure if all the affected colonies have high varroa levels or if all colonies with high mite levels have PMS. Does anyone have any recent test data on Apistan? Has anyone noticed unusually high mite levels this year? Has anyone observed PMS in colonies with low or normal varroa levels? bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb b b b Vince & Carole Coppola vcoppola@epix.net b b Coppola Apiaries, (716)965-2904 b b 10220 Bradigan Rd. b b Forestville, N.Y. 14062 b b b b Queens bred for tracheal mite resistance b b Honey , Pollination b b Western New York Beekeepers Association b b b bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb