Received: from [169.226.1.21] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id AE2A153300CA; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:43:54 -0700 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1800; Wed, 13 Nov 96 01:46:58 EST Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 9674; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:46:53 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:46:50 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1 (1.8b)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9609C" To: "W. Allen Dick" X-UIDL: 474 Status: U ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:35:47 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sarah Fries Subject: Re: Fascinating Facts about bees >In a message dated 96-09-03 13:22:46 EDT, you write: > >>Gee.....I thought this list was about sharing information and helping each >>other.....not shooting holes in other people's posts......sheesh! >> >> Ian Watson >> iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca >> >Thats true (sharing Information), and while Allen may not be the most >tactfull person on line - I do like to hear what he thinks. It helps to see >what he feels about what others say. I don't always agree but that is >alright with me. He is sharing information too. > >Wesley A Voigt I do not know what the critisim was but I know for me to learn ,I need information that I do not have. If it means saying I'm wrong at least I get someting to think about. Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 07:43:57 +22324924 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: OBSERVATION BROOD BOX In-Reply-To: <199609131537_MC1-981-C13D@compuserve.com> from "Jim Wood" at Sep 13, 96 03:36:54 pm I use single frame plexiglass "brood boxes" in my research. They are great to use. The only drawback from having a transparent full sized brood box would be: the bees would probably propolize the surface reducing the observational value. Adam -- _________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 07:55:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Maxant small extractor notes One of the best little extractors on the market is the Maxant 3/6 frame, I think it's model 3100H. I have had one for several years and here is some info on it, in case anyone is looking and is comparing different models: It is stainless steel, and holds 3 frames tangentially. It will hold 3 deeps, mediums, or shallows this way, but you can't double up 2 shallows in each basket, tangentially. It would have been nice if they had made the baskets a little wider, to accomodate 2 shallows/mediums in each. It operates with pulleys instead of gears; the ratio is 3 or 4 to one. The gears are linked by a rubber belt which will last for years. Maxant has marketed the machine as a 3/6 frame job. You can arrange 6 medium/shallow frames in a radial fashion. What you end up with is 3 pairs of frames equidistant about the reel, perpendicular to it. See below Maxant supplies 3 stainless steel clips, which are used to secure the two frames in each pair. \\ // \\ // O || || (View from top with 6 frames arranged around reel.) Tangentially, the extractor is great, and very quiet and smooth due to the belt drive. Radially, however it leaves much to be desired. The inner faces of each pair of combs are right up close to each other. If there are very wide combs or burr comb the honey can't fly out from between them. I called Maxant about this, they said to make sure the surfaces are uncapped right down flush with the frame. Or warm the honey up. This helped somewhat, tho it's a pain to have to worry about such details. There are 2 basic problems as I see it, first, the diameter of the extractor is not very large, so the rpm's must be very high to get the honey out radially. There just isn't enough force. Secondly, it is hand power, so it's almost impossible to get the speed you need, especially for the extended time required for radial operation. This could be over 15 minutes! If the honey is thin a/o warm it would work better, but you really have to be an olympic athlete to keep the thing spinning long enough to get most of the honey out. Otherwise, I recommend it, for the small producer. The materials are top-notch, and there's a strong angle-iron rim at top and bottom. This little machine is really solid. Operated tangentially, three frames at a time, it removes the honey rapidly and easily. IT is a bit pricey but given the long life of such a well-constructed machine, it's probably well worth it. There is a motor option, perhaps this would be better for radial operation, but it would still take a long time to empty the frames. Seems to me you could extract six frames tangentially in less time. Maybe others have used it with a motor, I'd be interested in any comments. Later... Joel ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 14:28:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Essential Oils Gerry Visel wrote. > Hallelu-ya!!! Thanks so much for posting the status of your work. There is hope!! > Very well done! > One question: would wintergreen or the other oils now fall into the "miticide" >family now that needs FDA approval in the US?? I sure hope not (but presume so!) At long last! I was beginning to think essential oil treatment would be another lead balloon!! How could the FDA ban a natural substance? Surely it's up to the individual to decide whether to use it or not? There is no way anyone can claim essential oil as their own pro-priority brand, and only a fool would apply to the FDA for approval, the cost would be astronomical, with no return!! How are they going to know you use it, if you don't tell them? IMHO we should give these folks big hearty congratulations, now we can stop using Apistan, and it's cheaper. Just think Aaron can now wait and get his fall honey crop! If we can persuade enough of the others we might be able to save the world's wax situation. I read somewhere it would take 50 years to decontaminate the wax supply of existing fluvalinate. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:47:23 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Wood Subject: WWII Equipment In-Reply-To: ; from "Nik Mohamed Abdulmajid" at Sep 14, 96 10:02 am Hi all, I've a short question, which I'll dispose of quickly, for those of your who enjoy a small story or side information, I'll add that later. My question's this: I'm the new and happy recipient of a honey storage tank and an extractor, which are prior-to-World-War-II vintage, but in mint condition, which still bear the original labels from the Walter T. Kelly company. The equipment has never been patched, but I notice the seams are tinned. Could lead by a concern in using this equipment? Should I paint the inside of this equipment with epoxy paint or some such before using it? Or, given the short time that the honey is extracted and the short time it's in the tank, is it OK to use as is? Some old Walter T. Kelly gossip: For those who enjoy a short story: My Dad's finally moved off the farm, and wanted to get rid of all of his beekeeping stuff. A cautionary note to all of you long-time beekepers: You might as well get rid of that old equipment now- "Some Day" never comes. In addition, 8-frame supers and deeps will probably never come back in fashion- [Anybody out there want absolutely beautiful never-been-used 8-frame queen excluders? ;-) ] There were also several large boxes of basswood comb-honey boxes, and some large boxes of frames not yet put together (those I can use). I've often delighted in the no-nonsense "Now if you're going to do it, do it right and don't cut corners" notes that Mr. Kelly puts with his equipment. It may interest some of you to know that these typed messages have evidently not changed since before WWII. Frames have changed a little bit- Mr Kelly notes that in the interests of the War Effort he "no longer" puts space board on the end of each frame. He also notes that the new "victory style" of nailing the deeps uses only every other nail hole, to conserve for the War Effort. The frames, however, have four holes for wire instead of three that we now have. There are also more cuts in the frames- The end wooden parts are tapered and beveled. The bottom cross bars are not saw cut as they are now- it's a bit more difficult to drive the nails there. The nails are much longer, but thinner than they are now. They bend a bit easier and so are a bit more work, but, on the other hand, I've never had any cross-bars to hold the foundation fall out. In addition, the wood appears to be harder and darker. On one hand, it's been sitting on a farm in Iowa for 50 years, and so may just be dried out more, but I wonder if a different type of wood wasn't used then. My father remembers sending his rendered wax via rail from Strawberry Point Iowa to Peducah Kentucky in order to have his foundation worked up. He also commented that, to his knowledge, Mr. Kelly also went down to open the gate at the factory each morning and that Mr. Kelly was quite commited to selling a good product at a reasonable cost. Well that's enough beekeeping "history" for the moment- thanks for any suggestions on how to best make use of the settling tank and extractor. Phil Wood wood@psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:09:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation About a month ago I sent in a negative commentary on plastic foundation.Although I have experienced some improvement in my bees reaction to Pierco it is still not up to the reaction to a normasl wax foundation. I started using it last year and got an almost 100% negative reaction and only the slightest depth of comb was drawn on in one super and none on the other. Having listened and read many peoples commentary I think that Pierco users will get best results when the hive is 100 % Pierco. There is no doubt in my mind that Pierco has some long range benefits in durability and certainly knocks the effort of assembling rames to zero. This year I used one super of Pierco in with two of wood and wax onn either side. It was far le;s than satisfactory .The south side of the frames were hardly drawn out the north side were fully drawn but v ery irregular. The supers above and below were drawn normally and well filled with honey . I am also using some Duragilt. Last season was a real tough one here as elsewhere. In some of the colonies I found much of the wax on the Duragilt eaten away while other parts were used normallly. I was distraught when my new colonies did not build on the bare plastic areas, and apparenlty made some of them bigger..However as the summer has worn on the bees have fully drwan the combs over all the Duragilt and show no preference with respect to the plain wax foundation. My plans for 1997 include one hive 100% duragilt, one hive 100 % Pierco, and the rest in wax. There will probably be five hives next year. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 01:54:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Gant <106213.3313@compuserve.com> Subject: transmitter on bee This is a radar reflector rather than a transmitter, or maybe I am on the wrong track. If the reflector is what you want then there are some nice photos and an article by Norman Carreck in the English journal Bee Craft for last April, pages 104-109. Sorry this is a late response Brian Gant ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 08:28:40 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: (Fwd) Re: The tipping method for honey removal >Allen, the above post appears truncated. Is there something missing >or is your later post re: flying bees as a requirement for tipping to >work, the rest of the first message? Right. I had promised to repost the following message, since it seemed to have been cut off in mid transmission. I had problems because it was in an inaccessible folder, but now that this ISP is up again, I am sending it. ---------------------------------------------------- This is a reply to a private email that resulted from a recent post. I imagine the content is of general interest, so am sending it to all. > Yes, some odor does > get into the honey house, but I have found that a quick ventilation > of the building when warm removes the odor. As I said those who use the Bee-Go, cannot smell it, even though the smell lingers for months. > Anyway, I'm intrigued by the tipping method and would prefer to use > that vs. boards. I'm probably somewhere intermediate in the group > that you mentioned who don't have the expertise to use this method. Well, if you think you are an intermediate, then likely you are humble and observant enough to get away with using tipping :) Lots of beginners quickly think they are *experts* because they read the books and/or got elected to an executive position in the local bee club -- hence my warning. > I can tell the difference between bees leaving a super and those >robbing. However, I don't have much of an idea of what weather and >flow conditions are good. Here's a good indicator of a good flow: Many bees come and go rapidly from all hives (without stopping to orient), and there is no serious defensive behaviour at the entrances. bees do not 'hover' like bullets at every potential hive crack in the characteristic robbing position. Honey left on the ground in front of the hives is left *untouched* for days. There is humming at night as the bees fan the moisture from nectar, and often some of the bees will 'hang out'. > I'm surprised that you say this method can > work under robbing conditions. I am really leary about recommending tipping without a flow because I have often been surprised to find what other beekeepers might do -- or not know that I would have never imagined from just talking to them -- things that might have a huge influence on the results. Using abandonment during 'no flow' conditions is tricky because of the possibility of robbing activity overwhelming weak hives (and an inexperienced beekeeper), and conversely the difficulties posed by the bees being semi-dormant in the supers. Using tipping during a good flow is reasonably idiot-proof, but if there is *even a chance* of robbing, well... Then it gets unpredictable. (So, Remember -- don't try this at home kids -- unless you happen to be -- or have the supervision of -- a well experienced beekeeper)! Here's how it is done: Firstly , you don't just go away while the boxes are tipped when robbing is possible. You watch closely. Since one way to stop robbing (temporarily, at least) in a yard is to remove*every* hive lid and leave it off while you work, a similar effect can be used to have the bees leave the supers -- without robbing problems: When you tip boxes from every hive in a yard on a hot day with many bees flying actively and perhaps light robbing already occuring, the bees will depart quite rapidly. In the confusion, there will not be much robbing or violent defensive behaviour until the boxes are picked up, and even then there should be little problem -- if it is accomplished with reasonable speed. Be careful not to leave scraps of honey around when you depart. Once begun, there will be *a lot* of bee activity -- enough to intimidate novices. If you plan to work with this, try it on a limited scale at first. A method I consider much safer is to place full supers (with bees) -- not necessarily from only one hive if you use excluders) on a single pallet with the top of the stack open, about two or three hours before dusk on a day when the hives are active. Light robbing starts and gets the bees stirred up enough to depart, but the declining light puts a natural end to robbing and flight, and stimulated the bees to want to go home to mother. If things go awry, just placing a tight lid on the stack ends the problem. You return to claim the boxes any time before 8 AM or so (Don't be late). It's slick, and when done right, few -- if any -- bees remain, and none are killed. The burr comb is nicely cleaned up and the honey either deposited in the combs or taken back to the parent hive. It works best in a home yard, and that's where I have often used it without any problem. Of course, you can just put a bee escape board on top of the above stacks to begin with (with the triangle up), and if you have taped the cracks, you can even depart for a while. The problem with this in no-flow conditions is that the bees may be sluggish and not inclined to leave unless stimulated by repeated smoking or the stimulation caused by some light robbing. But then, you can wait days with no problem if the escape board can stand weather. *Tipping*, on the other hand causes some stimulation by changing the normal orientation of the super, and allowing light to enter. Nonetheless, smoke may be required to get the bees to start moving. > This year we have had excellent honey > production and many hives have 5 or 6 packed full shallow supers on > them. Because they are packed, many have burr comb between supers > and thus honey is exposed when supers are separated from the hive > Under robbing conditions, I'd expect serious robbing with this > exposed honey and 50-60 supers standing on end (?) waiting for bees > to abandon. Well, robbing from an open source becomes a huge problem mainly when the open supply runs out, and the bees start to seek honey everywhere. If the supply is removed at dusk and the bees have the night to settle down, things are much better. If you can control robbing and you can move the boxes away quickly when most of the bees are gone, and if the hives in the area are all strong, and there are no neighbours with bees -- no problem. Otherwise... Hmmm. Quite a few 'if's in one statement! BTW If you do this during mid day, you'll want to pick up the boxes well before every last bee is gone, and be prepared to clean up with brushing, shaking or a blower if necessary. The last few bees will leave the stacks as you prepare to drive away. If you wait for them all to be gone, you will not be able to complete. I've never had a problem using the stacking technique, and can't really see a problem using tipping -- if a flow is on. If you are uncertain or want to try it when robbing is possible (or certain) do it late in the day until you build up confidence, so that if things go awry, you can tidy up at dusk. Disclaimer: YYMV. I am not recommending by describing these methods that the unwary start a robbing frenzy, and caution those who are in areas where robbing can turn into bedlam to be careful or people can be stung, nucs can be robbed out, etc. I've never kept bees where most of you live, so I sure can't predict the outcome of trying abandonment during a dearth in your district. Where I have bees, I am usually the only beekeeper for a mile or so, so I don't have to worry about other peoples' bees participating unexpectedly. Beekeeping neighbours will affect your decisions. Please bee careful. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 07:52:16 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: WWII Equipment > The equipment has never been patched, but I > notice the seams are tinned. Could lead by a concern in using this > equipment? Should I paint the inside of this equipment with epoxy > paint or some such before using it? Or, given the short time that > the honey is extracted and the short time it's in the tank, is it OK > to use as is? I really don't see any harm in it. Epoxies are far more toxic to many people until they are cured than the tiny (imaginary) amount of metals thatmight be added to the honey by your equipment. The key is that honey immediately coats the equipment, and that layer stays in contact with the metal until cleaned. Assuming you exract with reasonable dispatch and then wash off the equipment, rather than scrape the last little bit for consumption, I defy anyone to prove any metals get into the honey. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 07:43:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation I have ended up with a number of the plastic frame/foundation units, and find them time to time while going through the hives.. The nice thing about them is there is more comb area compared to wooden frames, since the plastic forming the top, bottom and side bars is very thin. A problem I encounter is that these "frames" are somewhat flexible. When one tries to pry ("prise" for you British folks) the frames apart the plastic bends and the comb has a tendency to twist. This is not a major problem, however. Perhaps newer ones have been reinforced. (?) The ones I have were purchased by another beekeeper back in the early 70's. I'm not sure if Pierco (or whoever made them) originally coated the plastic "foundation" with beeswax, or if that is even necessary to get the bees working it. One thing is certain, one of these deep plastic frames (or medium for that matter) holds a lot of honey! -- Just because of the larger comb area available. Plus the combs are extremely even and absent of dronce cells. The bees are also more reluctant to goo-up the plastic frames with propolis. Acceptance of the plastic foundation, when new, is something about which I hear very mixed stories. Some people say that the bees ignore it if there is wax foundation in the hive. Others have had the bees take right to them. I was fortunate as the plastic ones I have were already drawn when I got them! SO, what is the general concensus on acceptance and comb construction with these frames? Tnx, JWG ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 13:37:28 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: imidacloprid residues in nectar? I would be interested to know if anyone has data on the movement of the insecticide imidacloprid into nectar and its subsequent effect on bees. Imidacloprid is a new insecticide that is making rapid inroads in alot of crops primarily for control of sap-sucking homoptera (e.g., whiteflies, aphids) and Colorado potato beetle. It is sold under trade names such as Admire, Provado, Marathon, and Merit in the US, with almost all applications as a soil applied treatment for systemic uptake. The reason I am asking is that I have heard a rumor that when applied in greenhouses it is adversely affecting bumblebees. Frankly I am surprised at that rumor since 1) I did not think that much would be trnslocated to the nectar and 2) no other Hymenoptera (primarily sawflies) that I have seen appear to be affected by imidacloprid. (It does have some limit to its range of effectiveness; for example, spider mites and caterpillars are note controlled by it.) Although the rumor pertained to bumblebees, I am asking a honeybee group as the latter are related species that are more closely researched and observed. My interest is related to the fact that imidacloprid soil treatments are increasingly rapidly and supplanting many formerly used foliar spray treatments of various insecticides. Whitney Cranshaw wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 17:31:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: castings of beeswax Whereas I have seem ssome rather nice castings made of beewax I would like to know of some of the industrial uses of this technique. My daughter make jewelery using lost wax process but the wax seems much harder than "my"beeswax. I presume the wax she uses ismore like parafin or ther petrolem derivative. Can any of you enlighten me about uses of beeswax in casting processes? Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 16:57:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: New Web Page Hello, Everyone, Just wanted all to know that I have established a web site for beekeeping. My goals are to make personal research (my interest lies in substances produced by honeybees that are beneficial to humans, through consumption) available for browsing, as well as making available links to other honeybee related sites. The page is rough right now, but I'll be working on it a lot in the coming days. Any tips and hints for making it better and more appealing are welcome. The address is http://www.why.net/users/Bkeeper1. Let me know what you think, folks. Cheers, Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 07:44:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Amrine Subject: Re: Essential Oils At 02:28 PM 9/14/96 -0400, you wrote: > Gerry Visel wrote. >> Hallelu-ya!!! Thanks so much for posting the status of your work. >There is hope!! > Very well done! >> One question: would wintergreen or the other oils now fall into the >"miticide" >family now that needs FDA approval in the US?? I sure hope not >(but presume so!) > > > >At long last! I was beginning to think essential oil treatment would be >another lead balloon!! > How could the FDA ban a natural substance? Surely it's up to the >individual to decide whether to use it or not? There is no way anyone can >claim essential oil as their own pro-priority brand, and only a fool would >apply to the FDA for approval, the cost would be astronomical, with no >return!! How are they going to know you use it, if you don't tell them? > IMHO we should give these folks big hearty congratulations, now we >can stop using Apistan, and it's cheaper. > Just think Aaron can now wait and get his fall honey crop! > If we can persuade enough of the others we might be able to save the >world's wax situation. I read somewhere it would take 50 years to >decontaminate the wax supply of existing fluvalinate. > > **************************************************** > * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * > * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * > * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * > * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * > * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * > **************************************************** > Dear David, EPA has exempted a lot of materials listed as essential oils; the info can be found in the Federal Register, Vol 61, No. 45, Weds. Mar. 6 1996 (listed many essential oils including cironella, lemongrass, mint, peppermint, etc.) and Fed. Reg., vol. 59, no. 187, Weds., Sep 28, 1994 (Inert ingredients in Pesticide Products--listed mineral oil and wintergreen) Don't toss the Apistan--keep it handy as a tool that may be needed down the road. Hopefully, its cost will come down now that it has some competition. The following is results of our recent research: We recently found (in colonies treated with tracking strips at the entrance and grease patties over the brood chambers) that displaced nurse bees, under the inner cover, are used as a shelter by the mites. Placing a piece of paper towel under the inner cover, with canola containing wintergreen or tea tree oil (8cc per cup), was enough to kill the mites on these bees. (We hear that mite solution is 7% tea tree oil in vaseline). We also found that colonies with lots of supers and thus lots of space made mite control more difficult. Thus we recommend getting the honey supers off as soon as possible and reducing colonies to 1 and 1/2 or 2 chambers. We found that some of our colonies, treated only with tracking strips and grease patties were infested with varroa: there were very few on the adults (thus the ether roll would have come up with 1-4 mites), but the mites were reproducing, at normal levels, in worker brood cells. The few remaining drone cells had lots of mites in them (13 Sep 96). So the tracking strip and grease patties are lethal to exposed mites, but the mites escape the treatment by going into cells being capped. Thus we conclude that the essential oils in tracking strips and grease patties do not enter the food chain sufficiently to impair mite development. The colonies that were fed syrup in addition to tracking strips and grease patties were virtually free of the mites, without using any Apistan. So, each time we closely examine the bees, we learn a little more. Sincerely, Jim Amrine Sincerely, Jim Amrine Division of Plant & Soil Sciences P. O. Box 6108, West Virginia University Morgantown, WV 26506-6108 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <> Telephone: 304-293-6023 <> <> Fax: 304-293-2960 <> <> web: http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa.htm <> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------END OF FILE------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 07:54:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation >My plans for 1997 include one hive 100% duragilt, one hive 100 % Pierco, and >the rest in wax. There will probably be five hives next year. I have been very unhappy with duragilt. Once that wax coating is removed the bees will never use it. Also if they burrcomb it to a wall I have had the duraguilt buckle when removing the frame. I prefer wooden frames with plasticell foundation. I will try some all plastic frames in the spring. God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A., Phone:352-378-7510 200 hives, 1 year in beekeeping. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:18:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: report from Bulgaria Bee Liners I returned last week from a two week beekeeping assignment in Bulgaria and several of you have asked for an account of the trip. Many of you were kind enough to respond to various queries I posted from Bulgaria for assistance, and for that I wish to thank you. Bulgaria is located just north of Greece and east of Serbia, about 42 degrees north of the equator. My job was to work with a large Bulgarian beekeeper who wishes to expand his operation from 1600 hives to 5,000 hives. He wants to convert from Dadant-Blatt hives to Langstroth hives. Bulgarian beekeeping is impressive. We never wore veils in any of the bee yards we visited. The bees were dark to black and very gentle. The beekeepers I met were very skilled. The Dadant-Blatt hive has a deep brood chamber and a single shallow super. The brood frames are big and bulky and hard to handle. The beekeepers use plain wax foundation reinforced with cross wires, and replace brood combs regularly. Frames are shop made and simple but sturdy. Honey frames are removed from the super as filled and extracted and replaced. Labor is inexpensive. They uncap with forks and cold knives and use hand cranked extractors. No heat is used anywhere in honey processing and the honey quality is superb. The beekeeper I worked with packs and exports honey in 450 and 900 gram jars as well as hand thrown honey pots sealed with beeswax. I took samples of standard US commercial packs off the grocery store shelf (Sue Bee, Dutch Gold, etc.), and my client's honey packs were superior. He was surprised to learn how low our US honey quality standards are. My only explanation is that we use a lot of heat in processing and don't control storage conditions too well so some of our quality parameters suffer (like HMF). Average yields in the areas I visited were 70 kilograms per hive per year. Primary honey sources were lindin and acacia, though there were a lot of herbaceous plants in the mint family in bloom in August. The collective farm system has collasped and many farms have been abandoned. Pesticides and fertilizers are difficult to obtain, all of which favors bee forage. I was particularly impressed with the skill of the beekeepers, the gentleness of the bees, and the "fit" of the bees and beekeepers with the environmnent. Beekeeping just seemed natural in Bulgaria, not a forced operation. Varroa is controled with wooden strips dipped into a miticide they get from Serbia, which no one wanted to talk about, but they claimed to have Varroa under control. EFB is not a problem, and they have some AFB and use antibiotics. We did see some heavy infestations of Braula coeca (bee lice) in one bee yard. The beekeepers were very concerned, as you could see the lice on large numbers of adult bees. I visited one bee school where unemployed men were being taught beekeeping. The teacher had a yard of conical straw and dung skeps which were full of bees and honey and doing very well. The skeps were kept for demonstration purposes, but also to generate swarms, which they preferred to making splits. Bulgaria is a beautiful country with good food and friendly people, and inexpensive I might add. You need to learn to read Cyrilic if you go however, as very little English is used. Bill Lord Louisburg, NC -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:13:51 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Melanie Jane Kefford Organization: Methodist Ladies' College Subject: Hive Tools Please send me information about hive tools to kefformj@mlckew.edu.au or kefford@pibvic.com Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:21:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: post Fran spraying I live in the area of North Carolina that was in the path of Hurricane Fran and the destruction is widespread. I am sorry to report that Dave Greens's prophesy about the aftermath of the hurricane being worse than the storm is about to come true. The Raleigh newspaper today carried a story about the intention of the N. C. Division of Environmental Health to begain a massive insecticide spraying program in southeastern North Carolina to combat mosquitoes carrying easern equine encephalitis. Bill Lord -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 20:10:19 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Townsend Organization: TPLR Honey Farms Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation Joel Govostes wrote: > > I have ended up with a number of the plastic frame/foundation units, and > find them time to time while going through the hives.. The nice thing > about them is there is more comb area compared to wooden frames, since the > plastic forming the top, bottom and side bars is very thin. > > A problem I encounter is that these "frames" are somewhat flexible. When > one tries to pry ("prise" for you British folks) the frames apart the > plastic bends and the comb has a tendency to twist. This is not a major > problem, however. Perhaps newer ones have been reinforced. (?)Yes, if the ones you have are from the '70's , they have been modified a couple of times, they will still flex, but they return to there original shape after beiing flexed. The ones I > have were purchased by another beekeeper back in the early 70's. I'm not > sure if Pierco (or whoever made them) originally coated the plastic > "foundation" with beeswax, Yes they where coated with bees wax then as now, and it's a matter of opinion wheather they need wax coating or not to be drawn. or if that is even necessary to get the bees > working it. One thing is certain, one of these deep plastic frames (or > medium for that matter) holds a lot of honey! -- Just because of the > larger comb area available. Plus the combs are extremely even and absent of > dronce cells. The bees are also more reluctant to goo-up the plastic > frames with propolis. > > Acceptance of the plastic foundation, when new, is something about which I > hear very mixed stories. Some people say that the bees ignore it if there > is wax foundation in the hive. Others have had the bees take right to > them. I was fortunate as the plastic ones I have were already drawn when I > got them! SO, what is the general concensus on acceptance and comb > construction with these frames? Tnx, JWGIf you have strong colonies on a good flow, the plastic will be drawn the same as wax foundation,introduced in the same way as wax. It's as simple as that. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 20:12:59 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Townsend Organization: TPLR Honey Farms Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation Tom Allen wrote: > > About a month ago I sent in a negative commentary on plastic > foundation.Although I have experienced some improvement in my bees reaction > to Pierco it is still not up to the reaction to a normasl wax foundation. I > started using it last year and got an almost 100% negative reaction and only > the slightest depth of comb was drawn on in one super and none on the other. > Having listened and read many peoples commentary I think that Pierco users > will get best results when the hive is 100 % Pierco. There is no doubt in my > mind that Pierco has some long range benefits in durability and certainly > knocks the effort of assembling rames to zero. This year I used one super of > Pierco in with two of wood and wax onn either side. It was far le;s than > satisfactory .The south side of the frames were hardly drawn out the north > side > were fully drawn but v ery irregular. The supers above and below were drawn > normally and well filled with honey . > I am also using some Duragilt. Last season was a real tough one here as > elsewhere. In some of the colonies I found much of the wax on the Duragilt > eaten away while other parts were used normallly. I was distraught when my > new colonies did not build on the bare plastic areas, and apparenlty made > some of them bigger..However as the summer has worn on the bees have fully > drwan the combs over all the Duragilt and show no preference with respect to > the plain wax foundation. > My plans for 1997 include one hive 100% duragilt, one hive 100 % Pierco, and > the rest in wax. There will probably be five hives next year.While most beekeepers would find the regular interspered method of introducing ANY foundation acceptable, it comes down to , what ever works for you. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:28:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Fall Re-queen REGARDING RE> Fall Re-queen Julie Brunner wrote: "Earlier in the summer I thought that my hive was queenless, due to a lack of brood, but resident beekeepers thought that they were just focusing on the honey flow instead. But they never moved into the honey supers. I have had massive wax moth invasion, robber bee battles and ants, and still no brood. The colony had begun to diminish so I ordered a new queen. It took two weeks due to post office mishandling to receive a live queen, which I placed in the hive. A week later I noticed she was still caged, so I released her. Now a week later I see the queen is alive with attendants, but is not laying yet. There are only a few frames left with bees. Now my question; can this queen revive this colony, or should I just begin the process of trying to purchase a new hive? I can't wait until spring because my husband uses the bees to treat his arthritis." There are a number of issues raised here. Let me try to deal with them as I see it. 1) The hive certainly was queenless when you first inspected it, because you found no brood. Any advice that the bees were too busy with other matters is pure nonsense. During the spring, summer and fall a healthy colony will always be raising brood. It is too bad you took this poor advice from local "beekeepers", because it set back any timely response. 2) An indication of a hopelessly dying hive is massive wax moth invasion, along with ants and robbing. When this happens it is pointless to try to save the hive. If you had a second hive (always a good idea!) you could have transferred bees on comb to that one during the honey flow time. However, it was too late at that time to order a new queen and expect anything to come of it. 3) The only thing to do is get a new hive of bees. Yes, it is too late to start package bees, even if you could get them, but perhaps you might buy a colony from a local beekeeper. Your present colony is now beyond help. I doubt the queen will ever do anything in a hive without any morale, and weak to the point of dying. If you can get a local colony, you might be able to combine the good frames of your present one with the new, but this might also be an excersize in futility. 4) When you evaluate a possible new hive, be sure that it has good stores for the winter and a good brood pattern in the hive bodies. Give it terramycin grease patties, and treat with Apistan strips, if this hasn't been done already. It is also a good idea to feed it a gallon of 1:1 sugar syrup with Fumadil for nosema control. 5) Mistakes always happen, especially to beekeepers. The key is to learn from them. Good luck. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:36:24 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Nabors Subject: Re: Inner covers Glass will not allow excess moisture to disipate out the top of the hive with excess heat. The result will bee moisture dripping from the glass inner cover onto the bees. This will increase the incidence of disease, mold , mildew and could cause ice to form inside the hive in extremely cold weather. It will also make the hive more susceptible to winter kill. If you want a cheap inner cover, use a piece of cotton cloth. If you want a see through inner cover, I suggest you use less smoke and open the hive very slowly. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Inner covers Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at internet-ext Date: 9/8/96 8:36 PM I would like to know what the pro and cons are of inner covers, that are made of glass. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 14:14:42 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin D. Parsons" <102372.624@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Maxant small extractor notes I'd just like to second Joel's comments regarding the Maxant 3100H 3/6 frame hand-cranked extractor. I've found that it just doesn't extract well radially; I had to finish them off tangentially. Now I just extract 3 frames at a time tangentially and that seems to match the pace of my "uncapper" (aka wife). I keep intending to figure some way to make it work radially, but haven't gotten around to it. Despite the above, I'm satisfied with this extractor. I'm convinced it will outlive me, no matter how I misuse it. Kevin D. Parsons 4 Hives Pittsburgh, PA USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 12:53:28 +0700 Reply-To: dicka@cuug.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Inner covers > > I would like to know what the pro and cons are of inner covers, that > are made of glass. > > ll, I inheirited some plexiglas ones from my dad years back. They > have been in use on overwintered hives for years now with no ill > effects. (We have a notch in the lower side of the front for > upward ventillation in winter). Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:54:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: European Hornet Distribution in USA I have made posts about the european hornet, *Vespa crabro*, on BEE-L in times past. Last week I had a bear raid a top bar hive at Ellijay, GA about 80 mi N of Atlanta, GA USA. The resulting mixture of bees and comb attracted many of the hornets of which I collected about a dozen to send to a colleague for his insect collection; moreover, I found several among the bees which had probably been killed by the bees. This last weekend I observed the hornets at a stream just down from the top of Rich Mountain in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, TN. Rich Mountain is near Cades Cove. I noted one hornet apparently picking up water at the stream. This location is probably 120 miles (?) N of Atlanta. I'm curious. Can anyone tell me when the hornet first appeared in the USA? Where was it introduced? How widespread is it? One previous correspondent indicated that they came into Indiana about 10 years ago if I understood correctly. Thank you for your time. Cordially yours, Jim --------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | -------------------------------- | 258 Ridge Pine Drive Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Canton, GA 30114, USA north of Atlanta, Georgia USA | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 | --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:07:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Essential oils / wintergreen Back in the 40's in England some of the large operations (e.g., R.O.B. Manley) made a practice of placing a small bottle of methyl salycilate (?) in each hive. It was set right on the floor, and tucked away in a rear corner. A wick of some sort came up thru the cap of the jar. It was part of the winter preparations. I'm trying to recall what this was for; evidently tracheal mites (acarine). Is this still practiced, or was it totally abandoned for some specific reason? Could it hold promise? Interested in any info, thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 08:21:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Griggs Subject: Re: European Hornet Distribution in USA In-Reply-To: Jim, Try doing a search for this on the WEB. Entomologist, especially extensionists, have a number of informative sites with lots of fact sheets on pests, insects, and diseases. I would use "crabo" for the search term cuz using vespa may get you lots of motor/moped type sites. Cheers Mike >I have made posts about the european hornet, *Vespa crabro*, on BEE-L in >times past. >I'm curious. Can anyone tell me when the hornet first appeared in the USA? >Where was it introduced? How widespread is it? One previous >correspondent indicated that they came into Indiana about 10 years ago if >I understood correctly. > >Thank you for your time. > >Cordially yours, > >Jim > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | > | -------------------------------- > | 258 Ridge Pine Drive Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | > | Canton, GA 30114, USA north of Atlanta, Georgia USA | > | Telephone (770) 479-4784 | > --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:20:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD E BONNEY Subject: Vespa crabro In answer to the recent inquiry about the European hornet - Vespa crabro - there is information about it in "The Yellowjackets of America North of Mexico", USDA Handbook 552. Briefly, it was introduced into New York in the period 1840 - 1860. As of 1981 when the Handbook was written it had spread through the Northeast to the Mississippi, and south through the Carolinas and Tennessee and very slightly beyond. There are also scattered occurences in the deep South and as far west as the Dakotas. Here in Massachusetts in the last three or four years we have had many more reports of these hornets than in earlier years. Some are reported preying on honey bees, others are destroying fruit. Vespa crabro has been considered primarily a forest species, having few contacts with humans and presenting a minimal stinging hazard. Is this picture changing? Dick Bonney rebon@ent.umass.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:17:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Antibiotics - Reply I received the following, but am not familiar with "Tylosin." Can other BEE-Listers help? (With Fumidil-B, I follow the label directions, one rounded teaspoons per gallon of water, with one gallon of this fed in the spring, and two in the fall.) --------------------------------------------- "Dear Gerry, I was wondering if you could please assist me with a formulae/or formulaes for mixing"Tylosin" and also "Fumidil B". Further do you have any information on synthetic materials to place in swarm traps. I do hope that you may be able to assist,especially with a mix for Tylosin. I thank you for your assistance in advance. (I look forward to reading your posts to the list.Bee-L.) Regards Mal mramage@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au Mal Ramage Mal Ramage C/- Post Office or C/- University of Tasmania BURNIE TAS 7320 North West Centre AUSTRALIA 16-20 Mooreville Road BURNIE TAS 7320 AUSTRALIA e-mail < mramage@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au >" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:28:05 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Inner covers -Reply The guys in our group also do not like plastic or fiberglass inner covers due to the tendency for moisture to collect and drip into the hive. You gotta allow for ventilation. Gerry ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 20:02:19 +0200 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Inner Covers There has been some discussions about inner covers and top ventilation on the list lately. We had the same topic here about a year ago, and will undoubtedly see more of it. It seem to be the common practice in some parts of the world to always leave a hole at the top of the hive to provide ventilation through the hive. Others state that there should only be ventilation in the bottom. I have styrofoam hives with no top vent. The entrance is 8 mm high, and there is a hole 250 by 250 mm in the center of the bottom board with a steel mesh to provide ventilation. I have been thinking of making a test one winter but never got around to do it. Last year however, a woodpecker decided it was time to check it out. Now Woody didn't seem to care much for the scientific value of his work, the shapes and sizes of his holes were a bit irregular. Most of the holes were in the upper box, some boxes had up to 3 holes. He choosed about 20 hives for the test. We had a long and cold winter here with temps down to -20 C for several months. The entrances were closed with ice for 2 months on the hives without the extra ventilation, only ventilation left was the hole in the bottom board. As dead bees fell down on the mesh during winter, the circulation of fresh air in the hives would decrease. On Woody's hives the entrance didn't freeze completely, the air flow through the hives kept it open. So, did I see any difference between the hives with extra ventilation and those without after winter? The answer is no. Both groups had wet and dry hives. And there didn't seem to be any difference in food consumption either. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:46:50 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout <102336.711@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Fume boards vs Escape Boards Allen Dick wrote: >Blowers > >Blowers come in may guises, from the home vacuum cleaner in reverse >mode to the Huskvarna and Stihl two stroke 'big mothers' that approach >200 MPH air speeds. We use the latter, but seldom turn them up all >the way. The top speeds are for partly empty combs on cool days -- >days when the bees should actually be left alone, but there are a >few boxes that have to be cleaned out and we are 60 miles from >home on a Friday afternoon. I haven't had any experience with the big "commercial" type blowers but having seen them in some of the catalogs I think their price puts them out of the practical realm of a hobbyist or sideline beekeeper. >We don't turn them up because if we do, the bees are blown up in our >faces instead of thru the top bars, and there is a risk of damaging >bees with too much force. > >BTW, we blow from the bottom of the box to the top, since the frames >can be moved easily by their bottoms -- like leafing thru a book. > >Under some circumstances, we blow down through a box that is still >on the hive before removing it. Temperature must be considered when >doing this. My beekeeping mentor and I have an empty 55 gallon drum nearby our bees and we just set the super on end on top of the drum. That lets us blow bees out from both the top and the bottom. I've found that their are always some stragglers when we blow from just one side of the box. If we blow from both the top and the bottom we tend to get almost all of the bees out of the box. >Leaf blowers are a cheap and ubiquitous alternative to specialised >bee blowers. They are adequate for most (95% of all) jobs, and we >carry one as back up blower for when our main blowers fail. They are >not as rugged as the big ones, but they do last well -- even being >trucked around the country. I have a "weedeater" brand gas powered leaf blower (made by Poulan the chainsaw company) that works very well for this purpose. I bought it brand new on sale at the local Walmart for less than $100. I have a large yard and really wanted it for its ability to vacuum up leaves that have been blown in a corner and "mulch" them. Then it dawned on me to use it for the bees. We use butyric anhydride to get the bees down out of the super but we don't leave it on the hive forever. It moves most of the bees out and the blower does the rest. That way we don't get too much of the odor on our combs and probably blow most of it out with the blower. Next year I want to experiment with tipping. I really like the idea of avoiding the horrible smell of "bee go". I'm not sure if Texas is the greatest place in the world to try this since we tend to dry out in July and stay that way until September. Of course this year it might have worked fantastically. July and August were our wettest months of the year so far and my bees are still bringing in much nectar. >A blower is very useful if you misjudge how fast the bees will >abandon your boxes and they are still full of bees when you are ready >to load, or if there is a patch of brood in a super, and the bees >have not left. Another thing that I've noticed is that the bees tend to stay away from the noise of the blower. Has anyone else noticed this? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:18:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: European Hornet Distribution in USA >Jim, > >Try doing a search for this on the WEB. Entomologist, especially >extensionists, have a number of informative sites with lots of fact sheets >on pests, insects, and diseases. I would use "crabo" for the search term >cuz using vespa may get you lots of motor/moped type sites. I've tried both and never came up with anything useful. "Crabro" retrieved nil, tho' I haven't tried it on all the search engines, and not for a couple of months. Let me know if you find anything. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:24:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Vespa crabro >In answer to the recent inquiry about the European hornet - Vespa crabro >- there is information about it in "The Yellowjackets of America North of >Mexico", USDA Handbook 552. Unfortunately, this publication is no longer available from the Gov't Printing Office. Its author, sadly, recently passed away. If anyone can get hold of a copy it would be worth keeping. I believe the author was Dr. Akre, but am not sure what lab or univ. he was associated with. The book has some photos of some extraordinary nests, many of Vespula germanica. I would be interested to know if anyone else in the US currently is considered to be an authority on wasps, or if there have been any more recent publications along these lines. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 15:47:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Yellow jackets are back! REGARDING Yellow jackets are back! The posts about hornets just reminded me that about a month ago I posted a note expressing surprise about the lack of yellow jackets this year here in Michigan. I guess that they were just on vacation, and have since returned. Thankfully, I didn't see a one during honey extracting time, but I just now went out to the yard to retrieve my last stacks of supers, which should have been licked dry by the bees. The bees had long departed, of course, having gotten everything of value. However, the stacks were full of yellow jackets having great fun! So now my world is back in order again (sigh). Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 18:03:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Logan VanLeigh Subject: Re: European Hornet Distribution in USA Large #'s of Euro wasps near Knoxville, TN. Rumor here is that the paper companies brought 'em in to fight bark beetles and borers in pines. Any truth to that?? Logan Lenoir City, TN ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 18:45:31 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Brother Adam In-Reply-To: Hello all... Sorry, but this message will only be of use to Canadians... For any of you who have Cable TV and can get "VISION" which is an all faith religous channel, there will be a show hosted by a singer called Harry Secombe on Monday,September 23 at 8:00pm. Its called "Highway" and this show is supposed to be about Buckfast Abbey...and I am assuming it will have something to say about Brother Adam... It may be on at other times in other parts of Canada..so "check your local listing"....hehehe Cheers.. Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 22:02:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Cecile T. Kohrs" Subject: Joe Hemmens Hi ALL BEE-Listers. Thought you might enjoy the following: My wife gave birth to a beautiful worker weighing 9lbs 4ozs last night. She is called Holly (well it's a useful bee plant!). It was a fairly long and painful labour, so we're taking things a bit easy today. I think Holly is very beautiful, but I suppose most parents think the same of their newlyborn. Best wishes Joe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 21:06:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Holly Hemmens -Reply Congrats! Tell the new little momma to enjoy her honey! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 16:04:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: First Place @ Oklahoma State Fair I wanted to brag a bit. My son Patrick Barnes, won first place on his advanced entomology project at the State Fair of Oklahoma. The project was his bee hives. The display consisted of pictures and descriptions of the necessary equipment, pictures of robbing a hive, pictures and description of brood paterns both healthy and showing wax moth damage and scattered brood caused by mites, pictures showing him demonstrating these to the local elementary fourth grade and a paper stating what he has learned from this project. At the elementary school he demonstrated the equipment and also demonstrated extraction using a small (4 frame) extractor. The fair exhibit also included the life cycle of the honey bee. He placed eggs, larve, pupae, and adults in 70% propanol in viles for display. He also had honey from four sources, spring wild flowers, black berry blossoms, watermelon blossoms, and fall wild flowers. The honey display showed the various colors of honey. Patrick is 13 years-old and has 4 hives of his own and he doesn't let me help unless its something he can't do or hasn't seen before. Richard Barnes rbarnes@halnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:30:28 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diane Zytniak Subject: Re: First Place @ Oklahoma State Fair ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA56D.F12D0B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Congratulations to your son. You have every reason to be proud; so does he. ---------- From: RICHARD BARNES[SMTP:rbarnes@halnet.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 1996 2:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L Subject: First Place @ Oklahoma State Fair I wanted to brag a bit. My son Patrick Barnes, won first place on his advanced entomology project at the State Fair of Oklahoma. The project was his bee hives. The display consisted of pictures and descriptions of the necessary equipment, pictures of robbing a hive, pictures and description of brood paterns both healthy and showing wax moth damage and scattered brood caused by mites, pictures showing him demonstrating these to the local elementary fourth grade and a paper stating what he has learned from this project. At the elementary school he demonstrated the equipment and also demonstrated extraction using a small (4 frame) extractor. The fair exhibit also included the life cycle of the honey bee. He placed eggs, larve, pupae, and adults in 70% propanol in viles for display. He also had honey from four sources, spring wild flowers, black berry blossoms, watermelon blossoms, and fall wild flowers. The honey display showed the various colors of honey. Patrick is 13 years-old and has 4 hives of his own and he doesn't let me help unless its something he can't do or hasn't seen before. Richard Barnes rbarnes@halnet.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA56D.F12D0B60 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ih0VAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ADABAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAE8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABEaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9mIEJlZSBCaW9sb2d5AFNNVFAAQkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFO WS5FRFUAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAYAAAAQkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFO WS5FRFUAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAHAAAACdEaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9mIEJlZSBCaW9s b2d5JwACAQswAQAAAB0AAABTTVRQOkJFRS1MQENOU0lCTS5BTEJBTlkuRURVAAAAAAMAADkAAAAA CwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAADBjUBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90 ZQAxCAEEgAEAJgAAAFJFOiBGaXJzdCBQbGFjZSBAIE9rbGFob21hIFN0YXRlIEZhaXIAbQwBBYAD AA4AAADMBwkAEgAOAB4AHAADADkBASCAAwAOAAAAzAcJABIADgAdADoAAwBWAQEJgAEAIQAAAEJB RjBGRTlEQjUxMEQwMTE4NkZCMDA0MDk1OTExQkM2AC0HAQOQBgDMBgAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAm AAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AKCgy5yopbsBHgBwAAEAAAAmAAAAUkU6IEZpcnN0IFBs YWNlIEAgT2tsYWhvbWEgU3RhdGUgRmFpcgAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG7paicsZ3+8LsQtRHQhvsA QJWRG8YAAB4AHgwBAAAAAwAAAE1TAAAeAB8MAQAAABUAAABXaW5kb3dzL2FkbWluL0RpYW5lWgAA AAADAAYQhbISkwMABxB8BAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAQ09OR1JBVFVMQVRJT05TVE9ZT1VSU09OWU9V SEFWRUVWRVJZUkVBU09OVE9CRVBST1VEO1NPRE9FU0hFLS0tLS0tLS0tLUZST006UklDSEFSREJB Uk5FU1NNVFA6UkJBUk5FUwAAAAACAQkQAQAAAEEFAAA9BQAA/QgAAExaRnUl9pR7/wAKAQ8CFQKo BesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzO3AuQHEwKDNBLMFMg1 A0WVEzVHCsBhBGBuZAKDVjYDxhTINxLMQwnwdAUIcHkX0G90aGljJQKDOBcMRm8bYGxphGdoBUBN VCBMHUJdAoB9CoAIzwnZOx8PMoQ1NSAvZTEyOAKABwqBDbELYG5nMTAz7xRQCwoUUQvyYwBAGsAC IM0JwGEbAAtgdGkCIAQgkHRvIHkIYSBzAiBQLiAgWQhgIBGAdrhlIGUngBshHxBhJsF9JjJiJ5AT UAhgGFAmsSDEZG8HkWhlLgqFCosRHTAxODAC0WktMbw0NA3wDNAr4wtZMRiw6yjhE9BjBUAtLgcK hyy76wwwLYZGA2E6Lw4thgyCAQfwSUNIQVJEIIJCMwBORVNbUx2QUFA6cmIKwG4HkEAlEYBsNEB0 LgWgbV2/Lq8vvQZgAjAw7zH7VwmA4TRBZGF5LAZRBTAT4A8osAXAK2A54DE5OTYAIDI6MDQgUE2z NT8vvVRvN38x+00lsO8l4AtQJ5AfEGMFIAiQAjBxBCBvZiAdMBPAMzBFGEUtTDuvNk51YmpnLcE9 zzH7RmkRoAVAUIULYGMnkEAgT2sLYH5oA3EGAAGQE9Ac4AtwcnMqDysTMzYshySVLYZJbCB3AHAT 0GQocxgAZ7IgR1BiaTTQJwBNGzDNKEJQJZAFEGNrMzA0I/054HcoUSuwRiILUUaRKFHFG4BzCoVh ZHYAcEaQ70uAGuEDcB6RZxswKOFD4v9MEAVAG3AnkEd4QNJG5ibx/lRR4VEmSzBPZk9BKKEnkOsb gCeAc1N1ZAQAC1EbMP8FoACBE8FLgEDhQHAt0Ahw/weRAHBLgA2wBPQl80DhUdE/CoU0QEaQBBAK wBswZXH+dQUgB4ACMDngV5dA4QNg/mJMQCNgTBFVgls5WC1A0f8KhUvQHQBLgAqwE9AEoFUhvxth KcEHQBtwGzBYInNHIOcD8FxhSzB4IARgYDE5sO0AwGcnkGDjYyWQX7FLcXdfMwqFYvB1EbBjYRsw bd9MUE3SXRdhJhuAbVhRGCH/E8AlgVxSUdERsCYyUdIeoPVi8GwKhWVAAFryWmICEH8IcGAxJXEN sFgTR1AKsHD3OnETwGckdxGABUBR4RGA/wQgQAA0IkuAA1JRwU9XUSX/JvEUsFG0aRkE8EcgBvBs Et9mqEtybwJatmqEbCbACoX5cItleGcBLdBeYmRgXFTqcwDAbAMgKDtgA1AYENxlKXPmBbBTdWZS gnPwrxuATEFPdnKBIAuAYwpAlw2wcTQdMGYnkGN5eMDvTvFZQydQAiBlGzBVQSbxzkgowUZyUFFn Z03hC2B2clzRbaZ1CrBc4WqTZIc/sQQgC4AgNzAlKNLtCrBucCF+QXYDEAeRAhD/cwFWVHskeFMR gEuAepMKhf9tE2nCJrEIcFohOeBWYAUQ72FyAxBs8R6gdwSQTeECYN8A0E1wOmEbIQJgbwQQA3Dv TeJfogeAHqBuXsaFh1gi/3cgdVGD2lN1epRWRmEicSX/UAAFEAhgT2Yeg0DDepMm8TNNFlURMTMm YGyhcy3/BvBqsVgxbFI7YFWDjFNVEZ9hQAOgjpNZhimCbicFQE9AAAVAB4ApwWxwdJBu/3+RfiFA sYWxEcAbgGYyeaH/AHCRYSmAQNBU4SgwkVIRsO8J8Cihf9Ep7lIbkBGBS4D3TZQKhTQPbUgfSS9K PAqFBR4xAJzAAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzCA8smKqKW7AUAACDCA8smKqKW7AR4APQAB AAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAA2yc= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBA56D.F12D0B60-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 18:00:59 -0500 Reply-To: godave@infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Johnson Organization: mailhost.nr.infi.net Subject: wax worms and equipment Last summer I learned the hard way that Varroa infestation in this area requires Apistan treatment twice a year. I lost several hives, and intentionally let one go to the wax worms, never having experienced them before. What a mess, but I am wiser for it now. The supers which housed these infested hives, as well as the frames in those colonies, were more disgusting than any pictures in the books show. Does that equipment require any additional treatment beyond a simple cleaning to re-use? Thanks in advance. Dave Johnson southeastern Virginia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 23:27:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Essential Oils Thank you for your notes on essential oils. I have just used for the first time aVarroa Trap from Bushy Mt to get a count of Mites killed by Apistan. I got a very low count either because of mishandling of the trap ( it fell off my wagon) or because there were few varrao after three weeks of Mite solution on strips at the hive entrance. Will have to run the test again but this time I will use tanglefoot in the lower tray. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 06:07:38 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: Joe Hemmens At 10:02 9/17/96 -0400, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >Poster: "Cecile T. Kohrs" >Subject: Joe Hemmens >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Hi ALL BEE-Listers. > >Thought you might enjoy the following: > > >My wife gave birth to a beautiful worker weighing 9lbs 4ozs last >night. She is called Holly (well it's a useful bee plant!). It was >a fairly long and painful labour, so we're taking things a bit easy >today. I think Holly is very beautiful, but I suppose most parents >think the same of their newlyborn. > > >Best wishes > >Joe > CONGRATULATIONS, Joe! Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 06:45:38 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: Wax worms and Apistan The recent posting: >Last summer I learned the hard way that Varroa infestation in this >area requires Apistan treatment twice a year. > >I lost several hives, and intentionally let one go to the wax worms, >never having experienced them before. What a mess, but I am wiser >for it now. made me wonder "Does Apistan, when used in a legal manner for control of varroa mite, have any direct activity against wax moth as well?" The active ingredient in Apistan, fluvalinate, is a very effective insecticide for control of many other caterpillars, including many that are in the same family as wax moth. However, I am unaware of any testing for this insect and the rates used for varroa may be insufficient for wax moth. Just wondering, as I can't find any other way to control existing wax moth infestations since Certan has dropped off the market. Whitney Cranshaw Colorado wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:41:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Franklin Humphrey Subject: Barry's Bee Page Does anyone know if Barry's Bee Page is still on the Internet? I got the hive plans PDL but I didn't save the file on making the joints, which is what I wanted to keep. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:08:05 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Re: Wax worms and Apistan I had a hive lose it's queen and become weak. I placed apistan strips into the hive while I waited for a new queen. Within two weeks, the wax moths were in the hive and having a great time eating. I would say that apistan strips do not have an effect on wax moth larvae. Richard Barnes >The recent posting: >>Last summer I learned the hard way that Varroa infestation in this >>area requires Apistan treatment twice a year. >> >>I lost several hives, and intentionally let one go to the wax worms, >>never having experienced them before. What a mess, but I am wiser >>for it now. > >made me wonder "Does Apistan, when used in a legal manner for control of >varroa mite, have any direct activity against wax moth as well?" > >The active ingredient in Apistan, fluvalinate, is a very effective >insecticide for control of many other caterpillars, including many that are >in the same family as wax moth. However, I am unaware of any testing for >this insect and the rates used for varroa may be insufficient for wax moth. > >Just wondering, as I can't find any other way to control existing wax moth >infestations since Certan has dropped off the market. > >Whitney Cranshaw >Colorado >wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2096 09:48:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Daddyo Subject: Fw: Newbie to the Bee World question ---------- > From: Marton & Vicki Rusk > To: 'BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU' > Subject: Newbie to the Bee World question > Date: Sunday, September 16, 2096 2:33 PM > > I have one established hive since June 15, it has had medication for both > mytes, I removed the strips 8 weeks after they where put in, at this time I > inspected the hive the best that a beginer (without a smoker or bee suit > yet, i used coveralls :-) ) could do. Everything looked real good to me, > the second deep super was stating to get filled out with honey for the > winter and there where lots, and lots of larvea in both supers. I think I > should have put one of those Queen extractor things in between the 2 supers > because the Queen is laying in both supers. > > Anyhow...in the last few days here in Arkansas it has gotten a little > cooler, last night we had a Toad Strangler (it rained a bunch), the hive is > up on concrete blocks, slightly unlevel toward the front of the hive so > that lots of water won't go in the bottom. I went out to look at the hive > this morning and there where a few dead worker bees at the front entrance, > along with 7 or 8 dead larvea, most of the larvea where almost to the adult > stage. There a 2 or 3 that where a little smaller. I picked up one of the > larvea and the abdomen was goowie like thick puss. > > I was told by the guy I bought the established hive from that the bees had > already been medicated for Foul Brood, but this was last spring, I think he > did it after the honey season. I am not sure if I have a Foul Brood problem > or if the weather took the bees by surprise and a few died. I don't know > what to do, could someone tell me what to do. I may just be over-reacting. > (like a parent with thier first born) > > Thanks in advance for who ever answers my Newbie questions, > > Marton ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 08:33:26 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Don Bowen Subject: Re: Barry's Bee Page At 09:41 AM 9/19/96 -0400, you wrote: >Does anyone know if Barry's Bee Page is still on the Internet? I got the >hive plans PDL but I didn't save the file on making the joints, which is >what I wanted to keep. If the page is no longer up, I have the plans. Don Bowen Senior Software Engineer Valley Center, CA Smith Automation Systems, inc Bee Point acres donb@cts.com 33 16' 04N 116 59' 19W Don.bowen@integrators.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 12:38:18 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: Weak Hive; AFB Diagnosis? Comments: To: ohbee-l@sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu Gentlepeople: I have a single hive that concerns me of the 10 I have running. The bees have not taken the quart of syrup being fed to them at the entrance, whereas its neighbors have consumed a minimum of three quarts (emptying the feeder in 1 or 2 days) and its top gallon feeder has not had any taken from it. It has grease patties with Terra mixed in and has had so for two weeks, although, again unlike its neighbors, this hive doesn't seem to have touched it. Yesterday, its neighbors were BUSY foraging but this hive had only a few foragers flying back and forth. Most bees were clustered about the front entrance fighting off yellow jackets and bald face hornets. (Interesting battles, that, with four to five honeybees to one bald face hornet and even at that the odds were about even.) It has a VERY small brood area, although eggs were observed yesterday. Observation of the brood area indicates a rather spotty brood pattern but no punctured caps. I did notice what looked to be a larvae that was "flattened" on the bottom of a cell. I do not see any brood with its tongue sticking up as the pictures show, but I am concerned that the hive has a distinct smell that is different from its neighbors. This smell is noticable from 3-5 feet from the hive. It is not what I would call "sweet" or pungent but rather like the smell of old dried out frames of wax that had been left sitting for a long time. The bees have little stores put away although there is a lot of pollen. If am assuming that AFB is present as a worst case. If so, then I do NOT want to combine this weak hive with any other hive NOR do I want it to get robbed out when it weakens to the point where it can no longer defend itself. Therefore, I need to kill the hive off in a situation that I control. This is where I need ideas and some help. What procedures are there for "depopulating" a hive without harming hives adjacent? Are there any other diagnostics that I have missed? Based upon what I have communicated, what is your diagnosis? What are your recommendations? Mark Egloff ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 12:47:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: Top Bar Hive Management I would enjoy discussing tbh management, philosophy, techniques, gadgets, etc. with others who keep tbh's. Please email me directly, or I'll also engage in snailmail exchanges including the swapping of photographs of tbh stuff. I have 24 tbh's at the present time. Had 25, but a bear got into one last week. I merged those bees with an intact hive. I look forward to hearing from you. Cordially yours, Jim --------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | -------------------------------- | 258 Ridge Pine Drive Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Canton, GA 30114, USA north of Atlanta, Georgia USA | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 | --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 14:00:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Weak hive, AFB? REGARDING RE> Weak hive, AFB? Mark Egloff wrote: "I have a single hive that concerns me of the 10 I have running. The bees have not taken the quart of syrup being fed to them at the entrance, whereas its neighbors have consumed a minimum of three quarts (emptying the feeder in 1 or 2 days) and its top gallon feeder has not had any taken from it. It has grease patties with Terra mixed in and has had so for two weeks, although, again unlike its neighbors, this hive doesn't seem to have touched it. Yesterday, its neighbors were BUSY foraging but this hive had only a few foragers flying back and forth. Most bees were clustered about the front entrance fighting off yellow jackets and bald face hornets. (Interesting battles, that, with four to five honeybees to one bald face hornet and even at that the odds were about even.) It has a VERY small brood area, although eggs were observed yesterday. Observation of the brood area indicates a rather spotty brood pattern but no punctured caps. I did notice what looked to be a larvae that was "flattened" on the bottom of a cell. I do not see any brood with its tongue sticking up as the pictures show, but I am concerned that the hive has a distinct smell that is different from its neighbors. This smell is noticable from 3-5 feet from the hive. It is not what I would call "sweet" or pungent but rather like the smell of old dried out frames of wax that had been left sitting for a long time. The bees have little stores put away although there is a lot of pollen. If am assuming that AFB is present as a worst case. If so, then I do NOT want to combine this weak hive with any other hive NOR do I want it to get robbed out when it weakens to the point where it can no longer defend itself. Therefore, I need to kill the hive off in a situation that I control. This is where I need ideas and some help. What procedures are there for "depopulating" a hive without harming hives adjacent? Are there any other diagnostics that I have missed? Based upon what I have communicated, what is your diagnosis? What are your recommendations?" Mark, just a couple questions about this hive. Does it have adequate stores of honey normal for your area at this time of the year? Has the hive population rather abruptly declined, rather than having been weak all year or in gradual decline? If the answer to both is "yes", I would suspect varroa rather than AFB, if "no" AFB is likely. AFB also should show perforated, widely dispersed brood cells, often present in frames away from the present cluster. AFB should in addition show ropiness except in quite old capped cells, which is not present in the mite vectored diseases which ape it. If it is AFB, then by all means you should kill the colony, especially since it has weakened to such a great extent. There is a powerful aerosol spray on the market made just for this purpose, but the name escapes me now (Meth- something). I will try to remember to look it up when I get to my bee house. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 14:36:54 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Erik Seielstad --Original letter-- Return-Path: <@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU:LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU> Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu; 19 Sep 96 08:49:49 EDT Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7449; Thu, 19 Sep 96 08:45:49 EDT Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4482; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 08:45:49 -0400 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 08:45:49 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1 (1.8b)" Subject: BEE-L: approval required (07F53B) To: Erik Seielstad This message was originally submitted by mvdfv@MVCSS.MVCSS to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. You can approve it using the "OK" mechanism, ignore it, or repost an edited copy. The message will expire automatically and you do not need to do anything if you just want to discard it. Please refer to the list owner's guide if you are not familiar with the "OK" mechanism; these instructions are being kept purposefully short for your convenience in processing large numbers of messages. ------------------------ Original message (95 lines) -------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from cbgw1.att.com by ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu; 19 Sep 96 12:51:24 EDT From: mvdfv@mvcss.mvcss Received: from mviae.mv.lucent.com by cbig1.att.att.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2) id MAA26606; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 12:44:24 -0400 Original-From: mvdfv@mvcss.mvcss Received: by mviae.mv.lucent.com (5.0/EMS-L sol2) id AA26855; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 12:49:33 +0500 Received: from pcdfv.mvcss by mviae.mv.lucent.com (5.0/EMS-L sol2) id AA26849; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 12:49:30 +0500 To: ERIK@acspr1.acs.brockport.edu Subject: re: bee l post Cc: dverville@lucent.com Date: Thu, 19 Sep 96 12:49:52 EDT Message-Id: <9609191649.344974@pcdfv.mvcss> X-Mailer: E-Mail 1.7 Over the past several weeks there has been some discussions on different ways to remove propolis. I sat by the computer just waiting for the secrets to be revealed. Naptha was mentioned as well as several others. I have tried lighter fluid in the past and it never really seemed to do a good enough job. There was always some that remained. I was looking for that one chemical that would quickly and safely remove all of it! I was very interested due to the fact that for several years I have had observation hives that by the fall the "glass" is quite dirty and distracting. Judges at the fair have commented that a dirty hive loses points. To remove the propolis I have tried several different chemicals, some with varying success but none that were truly effective in removing all of the propolis. However, just recently I have found a readily available chemical that quickly removes even the heaviest deposits. I tried it on all the different acrylics I have used over the years as well as on glass itself. I tried it on the linoleum floors what "I" stained years ago. I even cleaned my hardwood observation hive with it. Same results! The propolis is totally removed! The acrylics are as clean as the day I removed the paper wrapping! I could bottle this stuff and retire tommorow! However, some things are just too important not to share! Here's what I did. 1) I removed the heaviest deposits of wax and propolis using a scraper. (Caution! Don't bear down hard on the scraper, just enough pressure to remove the heavy layers. Just kind of go along with the scraper, letting it do the work.) 2) With a hair dryer set on HOT, I heated the remaining traces of wax and rub them off using a soft "terry" type cloth. 3) Using another "terry" cloth I put some methanol on it and gently rubbed it on the areas stained with propolis. Not very much is needed and it quickly removes the propolis. Use a light source to reflect off the glass to see the smallest spots. 4) After the glass, acrylic or wood is cleaned, any general purpose window cleaner will remove the haze that remains. (Methanol is available at ALL auto part stores! Just buy a can of GAS LINE ANTI-FREEZE!) 5) When you tell your friends about it, just mention my name! Dave Verville VP Essex County Beekeepers Assoc. Beekeeping since 1844 Topsfield MA. dverville@lucent.com PS: Please read the can! This fluid is extremely flamable and fuels race cars! ~END_LETTER~ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 16:07:04 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout <102336.711@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: St. Ambrose << I have a probably strange question. I'm not Catholic, but I was wondering about St. Ambrose, the patron saint of beekeepers. I know that there are St. Christopher's medals, but do medallions or medals exist for St. Ambrose?? Would it be considered inappropriate for me to wear one (if such a thing exists)?? I don't know if this is an appropriate question for BEE-L, but I can think of nowhere else to ask it. . . Thanks, Kevin Palm >> Just for the bee lore value, does anyone out there know the story of St. Ambrose? I think I have heard of him but am not sure. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 16:07:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout <102336.711@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Smoking Mean Bees Allen Dick wrote: >Well, there are many reasons bees can become mean: ... >* Shade -- too cool a location I'm not questioning the advice but pondering the local and book accepted advice of putting hives in the shade. Is this a southern (warmer climate) exception. Or is it a northern climate issue that since it's colder, you keep your hives in the sun. I do know that when it gets really hot here in Texas the bees resort to fanning in huge numbers. This may reduce honey production but I've never noticed an increase in defensive behavior when it's hot. When it's cold I don't bother my hives. I'm no authority on the matter but has anyone out there got some logic for this? I have a bee yard a long ways from my house and two hives in my backyard. I literally sit in front of the hives in my backyard for at least fifteen minutes a day(this is how I relieve the stress of my professional life - I eat stress for lunch). My bees buzz as they fly by my head but never display aggressive behavior when I sit in front of the hives - a very soothing experience if your bees tolerate it. I visit the hives in the bee yard at long intervals. When I enter the bee yard I get checked out. When I open a hive in the bee yard the bees tend to be more defensive than the hives in the backyard. When I work the hives in the backyard, the bees are very docile. Could it be that they are used to me. I don't think that it's just me or my smell because my son comes with me sometimes and they aren't more defensive when he or any other visitor is with me. I normally smoke myself thoroughly before smoking and opening a hive. When I have guests, I smoke them. Does that help? Also the bees in the backyard are located about thirty feet west of our garden. We work the garden daily and they fly right by us. The only time that any of my family has been stung in the backyard has been when the kids stepped on a foraging bee, otherwise no casualties. BTW, the bees do a great job of pollinating melons, squash and some of the herbs my wife has planted. We are into open pollinated seeds and the bees contribute greatly to the seed making process. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 16:22:13 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: Re: Methanol Caution > 2) With a hair dryer set on HOT, I heated the remaining traces of wax > and rub them off using a soft "terry" type cloth. CAUTION: DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON Be aware your are dealing with a very flamable material and the coils of the hair dryer are red hot. It fumes may ignite are eliminate more than just the propolis! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 15:53:08 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: AFB or Varroa? More details....What to do. Comments: To: ohbee-l@sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu Ted Fischer wrote in reply to may earlier post: "Mark, just a couple questions about this hive. Does it have adequate stores of honey normal for your area at this time of the year? Has the hive population rather abruptly declined, rather than having been weak all year or in gradual decline? If the answer to both is "yes", I would suspect varroa rather than AFB, if "no" AFB is likely. AFB also should show perforated, widely dispersed brood cells, often present in frames away from the present cluster. AFB should in addition how ropiness except in quite old capped cells, which is not present in the mite vectored diseases which ape it. " Ted, et. al. This hive does not have what I consider adequate stores for this time of the year. However, the hive population has rather abruptly declined. This hive was a hive strong enough in the spring that it was my major producer of comb honey. It produced one square section super and one round section super as well as parts of two other supers. It has only been since mid to late August that this hive has started its decline. So the answer to your questions is both "Yes" and "No" respectively. To deal with varroa, 4 Apistan strips were placed in the hive at the same time as the rest of the apiary about 4 weeks ago. I have not done ether roll test in the hive yet but pulled drone comb was clean (about 25 drone brood pulled). Although I have fed them Spearmint laced syrup they have only consumed about a pint (whereas its sisters have consumed three quarts each) The brood is not what I would call "widely dispersed". It is in an area about 6 to 8 inches in diameter. However within that sphere the pattern is not concentric and solid but with open cells scattered liberaly within the sphere. Eggs observed yesterday were standing straight up and had not leaned yet. The queen was not observed. The hive consists of two deep hive bodies topped with a 6 5/8" super to act as a food chamber for the winter. (The southern Ohio area I live in recommends 60lbs for a normal winter i.e. two deep hive bodies but I like to play it safe.) The brood is in the upper deep hive body. Of the lower 10 frames, 5 have a smattering of nectar (or sugar syrup for feed has been on them for 2 weeks). The rest is empty except for LOTS of pollen. In the upper deep, honey and nectar surrounds the brood sphere about 2 to 3" out from the sphere. The medium super on top is about 50% full of nectar/syrup. Bees cover about 4 frames in the top deep body and 2 or three in the bottom deep. Only a few workers are in the medium super. One telling point is that the bees...how should I describe it.... seem...well, lost. They have not cleaned out a grease patty placed on the hive in early August and not touched the Terrapattie placed 2 weeks ago. Opening the hive is like opening the door to my 14 year old son's room. I don't "feel" a sense of order. I feel a sense of "What do we do next?" (How's that for placing human emotions and motives to bugs? Sorry.) They are active in fighting off invaders. It should be noted that of the 6 hives at this location it is the only one being bothered by yellow jacket and bald faced hornets. I can think of nothing else of possible use to you diagnosticians out there. I, personally, feel that the hive is doomed and will not survive the winter. The only issue to me is, do I combine it with another or let it die or kill it. I am leaning toward killing it and removing it from the apiary just in case. More of your thoughts would be welcome. Mark Egloff Dayton, Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 19:33:15 -0500 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Barry's Bee Page Franklin Humphrey wrote: > > Does anyone know if Barry's Bee Page is still on the Internet? I got the > hive plans PDL but I didn't save the file on making the joints, which is > what I wanted to keep. > > Frank Humphrey > beekeepr@cdc.net Yes, it's still on. I guess I forgot to mention that the URL had changed. I just put in an index page to access mine and my brothers page. http://www.birkey.com -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 20:39:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: Re: St. Ambrose According to "The Lives of the Saints" St. Abrose was born in Gaul around the year 340. He was appointed the Governor of Liguria and Aemilia. By his virtue in this office the people of Milan wanted him as there bishop. He was elected bishop inthe year 374. He gave his foutune to the Church and the poor. He succeeded in concluding a treaty between the ariansand the empire. He died in 397. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:13:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Cecile T. Kohrs" Subject: Re: St. Ambrose In a message dated 96-09-19 20:58:47 EDT, you write: << According to "The Lives of the Saints" St. Abrose was born in Gaul around the year 340. He was appointed the Governor of Liguria and Aemilia. By his virtue in this office the people of Milan wanted him as there bishop. He was elected bishop inthe year 374. He gave his foutune to the Church and the poor. He succeeded in concluding a treaty between the ariansand the empire. He died in 397. >> OK SO WHERE"S THE BEEs ? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:53:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Chapin Subject: St. Ambrose To add to the info. requested about St. Ambrose, from "The Calendar of Saints", etc.: He was such an excellent Roman governor (Ligouria) that, when the old bishop died, he went to the election and a child called out "Abrose for Bishop!"; then all the people in the cathedral demanded that he become their Bishop. Not yet baptized as a Christian, he finally agreed, gave the governing over to his brother and his property to charity, and studied for baptism, diaconate, priesthood and episcopate. He drove out the Arian heretics, reproved vice, tended the sick and redeemed captives. He wrote many works about the Faith, and the Incarnation. When the Emperor allowed a massacre of 7,000 people, Ambrose excommunicated him until he had done public penance. Ambrose's most famous convert was St. Augustine. It is claimed that his relics are in the Church of San Ambrogio in Milan. Can't find the reference now, but recall something about a legend that he had something to do with a beehive as a young child, and was not harmed by the bees. His statues and his likenesses on holy cards usually have a skep at his feet, and he is considered the Patron Saint of all beekeepers. I'll bet Larry Connors has a book about him :) (\ {|||8- (/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 00:06:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: AFB or Varroa? More details....What to do. In a message dated 96-09-19 19:53:42 EDT, megloff@cscuuxch.dayton.csc.com (Mark D. Egloff) writes: << I, personally, feel that the hive is doomed and will not survive the winter. The only issue to me is, do I combine it with another or let it die or kill it. I am leaning toward killing it and removing it from the apiary just in case. >> You are wise to deal with it now. We all need to be culling the junk hives that we know will not make it through winter. By using the Apistan strips and checking drone brood, you have eliminated varroa as the problem. There is still the possibility of AFB, tracheal mites, viruses, chalkbrood, queen running out, and pesticides stored in the pollen. If there is any real possibility of AFB, get official word from your state inspector, or from an experienced beekeeper. You will want to destroy the bees and frames, and sterilize the boxes, cover, bottom board and excluder. If you eliminate foulbrood as a possibility, you can kill the queen, and combine them with a good hive, which should take care of any of the rest of the possibilities. Tracheal mites are a good probability, if you or a breeder raised the queen from bees treated for tracheal mites, or if you got the queen from Hawaii, where they haven't ever been exposed. I got about a dozen Hawaiian queens in the spring. They were surplus from a migratory beekeeper, who thought early queens were more important than good queens. These hives are garbage right now. The Hawaians haven't yet thinned out their stock that is weak to TM. I'm glad I marked them, as I know where they came from, and can figure out what happened. One of the symptoms of TM is the refusal or inability to take syrup. They also smell slightly sour, and many of the bees look greasy. The best breeders do not treat their breeding stock for TM. That way, they know that the stock is not weak. I do not treat for TM, raise much of my own stock, and rarely have a TM problem, particularly in my own queens. Chalkbrood makes hard mummies out of the brood. It is either whitish, like chalk, or grey-black, if the fungus is fruiting. Again this is related to weak stock, and it's too late to requeen now. Pesticides..... while one hive may well take a worse hit than others (bees are creatures of habit, and one hive may fly only in one direction, while others go other ways), you still would likely see some damage in the others, if this had happened. Some quick poisons simply drop bees in the field, and make the hives weak. Other residual poisons are slower, and don't have much effect of the field bees, but they are brought back in the pollen, and cause continuing death of brood and young adults until the poison is used up. What kinds of pesticides are used in your area? When and how? If you are suspicious of pesticides in the pollen, cull the frames that are heavily loaded with pollen, or you will simply kill more bees, when you combine the hives. Virus can be indicated by hairless bees, or bald brood (uncapped pupae), or a bunch of other common symptoms. Requeening is the solution, had you caught them earlier. If you combine them with a good and healthy hive now, they should take care of it. Queens sometimes just run out of eggs. I've more often seen failing queens lay drone eggs in worker cells, but do, at times, see queens that simply stop. Look at your queen. Does she look greasy? Tattered wings? Pinched, triangular abdomen, rather than a nice fat oval? I've seen beautiful-looking queens that were worthless, so it's not proof that she is good, if she looks good, but if she doesn't look good, you've got strong evidence that she's shot. Good luck. We are just starting to prepare for winter. We'll be culling the junk, and feeding the good ones. Goldenrod is just getting going, and we should have about a month more foraging. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 21:04:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Robert J. Cessac" Subject: Re: AFB or Varroa? More details....What to do. Comments: To: "Mark D. Egloff" In-Reply-To: <9608198431.AA843187579@cscuuxch.dayton.csc.com> Mark, is it possible that the one hive swarmed just before you noticed a large decline in bee population? Producing comb honey will make swarming more likely. According to Roger Morse, 20% of hives might swarm late in the summer. Something else to consider. Bob Cessac K-B Ranch Natural Beef 2362 St. Rt. O Higbee, MO. 65257 816-248-5201 rcessac@mail.coin.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 19:08:03 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Philip Hinton Subject: Re: Smoking Mean Bees Ted Wout wrote: >>Well, there are many reasons bees can become mean: >... >>* Shade -- too cool a location > When it's cold I don't bother my hives. I'm no authority on the matter but has anyone out >there got some logic for this? Accepted wisdom in New Zealand, as I understand it, is that in cold weather the field bees tend to stay indoors (too much energy otherwise expended staying warm outside?). As anyone who has shifted a hive to nearby knows, field bees try to return to the old site (where an unpopulated hive is now sitting). This is used to get rid of them while doing a hive check with nondocile strains, to introduce a new queen to the younger, dociler nurse bees, etc. And this is the point: on a fine, warm day the fiercer, older, field bees are out foraging. Therefore, apart from the guards, the hive is mainly populated by quiet, young nurse bees. Apart from the docility variation in bee strains, Ted's ability to sit in front of his hive (if he's not kin to St Francis of Assissi :) ) could well be due to the workers being too busy to worry about someone who's not irritating them. >I literally sit in front of the hives in my backyard for at least fifteen minutes a day.(this is how I relieve the stress of >my professional life) Yeah! Great isn't it? Philip Hinton Palmerston North, New Zealand. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 05:08:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: Drones above the excluder Ben Oldroyd has sent me a copy of his work on the drones above the excluder. The reference for anyone wanting to follow this up is:- Nature Vol 371 27 October, 1994 page 749. It appears in the scientific correspondence section. The title is "Anarchy in the beehive - Benjamin P. Oldroyd, Adam J. Smolenski, Jean-Marie Comuet and Ross H. Crozier" By the way, the queen had mated with at least 12 drones. Trevor Weatherhead M.S. 825 Middle Road Peak Crossing 4306 Queensland AUSTRALIA Ph 6174 672135 Fax 6174 672265 E.mail queenbee@gil.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 05:31:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: Fume boards v's clearer boards v's blowers I have viewed with interest the comments on Bee-L re the pro and cons of fume boards, clearer boards and blowers. So far, there has been no comments about the residue in the honey from using fume boards. This is the case with any of the repellants used in fume boards. Is this not a consideration in deciding what to use? Are there no regulations about not having residues in your honey? Here in Australia, the use of fume boards was banned several years ago because of the residue problems. Our customers overseas demand a "clean, green" product with no residues. Trevor Weatherhead M.S. 825 Middle Road Peak Crossing 4306 Queensland AUSTRALIA Ph 6174 672135 Fax 6174 672265 E. mail queenbee@gil.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:57:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Alden Leatherman Subject: too much honey Greetings all: I need some advice on how to deal with the scattered honey I've found in the extracted supers I put back on the hives for the bees to clean up. I extracted about a month ago and put the supers back on the hives over an inner cover, expecting the bees to clean them up. This was at the same time that others were discussing the problem of crowding the bees down into the brood chambers after extracting and leaving them no place to put honey except where the queen should be laying to build up population for the winter. I had exactly the same concern so took the opportunity to put on some deeps that had wax moth damage for them to clean up and store extra honey in. Well, this weekend I finally got around to putting escape boards on in preparation for removing the "empty" supers and found that most of them had a little more "heft" than I expected from empty supers. Sure enough I now have 11 supers on my two hives with very scattered uncapped nectar/honey in them. The wax moth infested deeps i put on are cleaned up and full of capped honey. I was hoping to pull off the cleaned up supers and put them in storage but.... now what? I really don't want to set up my extracting extravaganza again, apistan is on so the honey/nectar is no good for human use, the bees have plenty of honey stored for the winter, and what I want is for them to clean out these supers and let me put them away. How do I talk them into the task. I could leave it but am afraid of what kind of a fermented - crystallized mess I might end up with by next spring. Any suggestions? Do bees normally store honey above an inner cover or did I just leave them on too long and they had no where else to store the fall flow once the extra deeps I put on were full? Thanks in advance. Alden Leatherman Lansing, Michigan leathermana@state.mi.us ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:28:17 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Max.Watkins@sandoz.com Subject: Re[2]: Wax worms and Apistan Comments: To: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Apistan has no label claim for wax moth; it's possible that you'd get some efficacy but nowhere near the level required for control - unlike Varroa or Braula which are closely associated with their hosts (bees) the wax moth larvae don't come into direct contact with enough active ingredient. Don't rely on wax moth control through this product. The Bti product CERTAN is excellent for control of wax moth - you'd have to check the regulatory situation in the USA but it's produced by a company called SWARM SA in France. Contact Jacques Tricoire on 33 1 30 82 29 89, fax 33 1 30 82 27 77 Max Dr Max Watkins Technical Development Manager, Sandoz SPC ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Wax worms and Apistan Author: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at INTERNET1 Date: 9/19/96 4:09 PM I had a hive lose it's queen and become weak. I placed apistan strips into the hive while I waited for a new queen. Within two weeks, the wax moths were in the hive and having a great time eating. I would say that apistan strips do not have an effect on wax moth larvae. Richard Barnes >The recent posting: >>Last summer I learned the hard way that Varroa infestation in this >>area requires Apistan treatment twice a year. >> >>I lost several hives, and intentionally let one go to the wax worms, >>never having experienced them before. What a mess, but I am wiser >>for it now. > >made me wonder "Does Apistan, when used in a legal manner for control of >varroa mite, have any direct activity against wax moth as well?" > >The active ingredient in Apistan, fluvalinate, is a very effective >insecticide for control of many other caterpillars, including many that are >in the same family as wax moth. However, I am unaware of any testing for >this insect and the rates used for varroa may be insufficient for wax moth. > >Just wondering, as I can't find any other way to control existing wax moth >infestations since Certan has dropped off the market. > >Whitney Cranshaw >Colorado >wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 11:59:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Fume boards, etc. REGARDING RE> Fume boards, etc. Trevor Weatherhead wrote: "I have viewed with interest the comments on Bee-L re the pro and cons of fume boards, clearer boards and blowers. So far, there has been no comments about the residue in the honey from using fume boards. This is the case with any of the repellants used in fume boards. Is this not a consideration in deciding what to use? Are there no regulations about not having residues in your honey? Here in Australia, the use of fume boards was banned several years ago because of the residue problems." I have never heard that there are residues in the honey from the use of fume boards. I had been concerned about that possibility for several years before I began using them. My understanding is that unless the boards come in contact with the honey there is no passage of chemicals to the honey. However, if I am incorrect in this, I would like to be apprised of the research which shows it. Do you have references for this allegation? Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 11:24:05 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp of AGF 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 18 Sep 1996 to 19 Sep 1996 In-Reply-To: <01I9ODMF6I8YA536PF@saturn.gov.bc.ca> --Boundary (ID QggZXJK/ByJKReGutOOFZA) Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII --Boundary (ID QggZXJK/ByJKReGutOOFZA) Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 11:23:10 PDT Subject: St. Ambrosius MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Importance: normal A1-type: DOCUMENT Re. St Ambrose & the Bees Ted Wout, Bill Hughes and others made reference to St. Ambrose (=St. Ambrosius). We now have a pretty clear picture of what the man did in the fourth century in northern Italy. To Roman Catholics, the most significant fact was that St Ambrosius excommunicated the Pope following the massacre as mentioned before. To beekeepers, St. Ambrosius became their Patron Saint because of the legend that when he was a baby resting in some cradle, a swarm of bees apparently landed on his chest without causing any harm. (Of course, the legend does not explain what happened eventually with the swarm). It is this legend that led to the practise in various European countries to pay homage to St. Ambrosius every year. At county fairs and other festivals, the homage was displayed by bee bearding (as we still do today, often in the presence of public media) and the display of specially woven hive bodies in the shape of a bishop, or a bishops hat. Keep in mind that beekeepers traditionally kept bees in skeps made of straw. Even today, we still use the image of the skep on many honey labels because it is a symbol of industrious bees producing this pure, wholesome food. For the very experienced weavers the creation of a St. Ambrosius hive was a real challenge and proof of their skill. St. Ambrosius hives can still be found in museums in Europe. Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist British Columbia --Boundary (ID QggZXJK/ByJKReGutOOFZA)-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:58:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: too much honey >Alden Leatherman wrote >I need some advice on how to deal with the scattered honey I've found in >the extracted supers I put back on the hives for the bees to clean up. I --snip---- >away. How do I talk them into the task. I could leave it but am afraid of >what kind of a fermented - crystallized mess I might end up with by next >spring. Any suggestions? Do bees normally store honey above an >inner cover or did I just leave them on too long and they had no where >else to store the fall flow once the extra deeps I put on were full? This, placing wet supers over an inner cover for drying, is a good idea. But, as always timing is everything. If you extract quickly, and return the boxes quickly, then the bees seem to carry on filling them up again. What we do is wait a few days with the inner cover hole closed. Then when you put them back they clear it out. What to do now? My advice, even though it hurts (all that extra work) repeat the process. If you don't there is a danger of fermentation, worse, granulated honey in the frames. Next year your problems get worse! If you put granulated frames on, then it seeds next years honey, which depending on circumstances means you might not extract it. So, bite the bullet, do it again, and learn by your errors!!! ;-)) **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:59:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: AFB or Varroa? More details....What to do. Mark Egloff wrote > > The brood is not what I would call "widely dispersed". It is > in an area about 6 to 8 inches in diameter. However within > that sphere the pattern is not concentric and solid but with > open cells scattered liberaly within the sphere. Eggs observed > yesterday were standing straight up and had not leaned yet. > The queen was not observed. > One telling point is that the bees...how should I describe > it.... seem...well, lost. They have not cleaned out a grease > patty placed on the hive in early August and not touched the > Terrapattie placed 2 weeks ago. Opening the hive is like > opening the door to my 14 year old son's room. I don't "feel" > a sense of order. I feel a sense of "What do we do next?" My view. A classic case of a failing Queen. Jim Amrine pointed out one of the symptoms of PMS is scattered brood! A failing queen does not necessarily turn into a drone layer. A poorly mated queen (unnoticed swarm or superscedure) will exhibit these symptoms. Sometimes even the genetic make up seems to have something missing, as if she is a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Suggest you take your pick!! :-) **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:59:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Re[2]: Wax worms and Apistan >Max Watkins wrote >The Bti product CERTAN is excellent for control of wax moth - you'd have to >check the regulatory situation in the USA but it's produced by a company called >SWARM SA in France. Contact Jacques Tricoire on 33 1 30 82 29 89, fax 33 1 30 8227 77 As far as I know this is not a banned substances? It is still available from the UK, in fact it is still in our catalog. If you want more info, e-mail me privately. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 21:36:17 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Allister C. Guy" Subject: Soap of Venice Hi There I wonder if any one on the list can help with this? I have been asked about the formula of "Soap of Venice" but cant find anything about it other than Venice was an important area in the manufacture of soap in the 16th century. Soap of Venice may contain propolis or used in conjuction with propolis. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Allister C. Guy Secretary EMBA -- Allister C. Guy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 19:02:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian R. Tucker" Subject: UnCapping Brood I have one hive that I have been nursing back to heath since about the end of July. This hive has a problem with uncapping sealed brood. For some reason the larve are developing most of the way after the cell is sealed but then dying. And this is very spuratic in the hive. Then about 2 weeks ago I found some Larve that had died. They looked like they had sacbrood but there were just a few of them and they didn't change color at all. And again this was only in little areas of the brood nest. Any suggestions. Are these symptoms I would get if some of the pollen was contaminated with insecticed.Thanks NexxusT@Aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 05:38:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: St. Ambrose > According to "The Lives of the Saints" St. Abrose was born in Gaul > around the year 340. He was appointed the Governor of Liguria and Cecile asks......... >OK SO WHERE"S THE BEEs ? OLd Drone...ponders the question: Other then he is depicted as having a skept of bees as a coat of arms I can't find any reference to St. Ambrose being a beekeeper. Could bee that some sinful beekeeper in later years paid off a Pope to have the protection of St. Ambrose? Not wanting to take any chances I have directed a prayer or two his way myself. Can't say if it helps, but for sure it did no harm and is comforting that we may have someone special just to look after beekeepers. But I must admit he has not been that successful the last few years with all the problems beekeepers are having. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ "Where there are fruits & nuts, there are beekeepers" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 20:20:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mary Caldwell Subject: Carniolans - "Old World," "New World," "Yugos," HELP! Hello! I am quite new to beekeeping; in fact, I won't even have my first hives until the spring. I have heard a lot about Carniolans, and am very interested in starting with that type of bee because of their reputation for gentleness. However, now that I've been researching this bee, I find that there are "Old World," "New World," and Yugoslavian Carniolans. What's the difference? I get very different answers from each of the various apiaries I have called, all saying that their bees, of course, are best. Also, how does the gentleness of the Carniolans compare to the Buckfast bee, in which I am also very interested, and the "Midnite" hybrid bee? Thanks in advance for your assistance! Mary Caldwell Benicia, CA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 21:04:46 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Allister C. Guy" Subject: St. Ambrose (Deceased) In-Reply-To: In message , Richard Chapin writes >To add to the info. requested about St. Ambrose, from "The Calendar of >Saints", etc.: >He was such an excellent Roman governor (Ligouria) that, when the old >bishop died, he went to the election and a child called out "Abrose for >Bishop!"; then all the people in the cathedral demanded that he become >their Bishop. Not yet baptized as a Christian, he finally agreed, gave the >governing over to his brother and his property to charity, and studied for >baptism, diaconate, priesthood and episcopate. He drove out the Arian >heretics, reproved vice, tended the sick and redeemed captives. He wrote >many works about the Faith, and the Incarnation. When the Emperor allowed >a massacre of 7,000 people, Ambrose excommunicated him until he had done >public penance. Ambrose's most famous convert was St. Augustine. It is >claimed that his relics are in the Church of San Ambrogio in Milan. > >Can't find the reference now, but recall something about a legend that he >had something to do with a beehive as a young child, and was not harmed by >the bees. His statues and his likenesses on holy cards usually have a skep >at his feet, and he is considered the Patron Saint of all beekeepers. >I'll bet Larry Connors has a book about him :) > > (\ > {|||8- > (/ You were asking about Saint Ambrose. Here are a few facts about his life. He was born in Gaul, where his father was highly placed as a praetorian prefect. There is a story associated with his childhood that, as he lay asleep in a court of his father's palace, a swarm of bees flew around his cradle, some of them creeping in and out of his open mouth, before rising up and flying away. This was seen as an omen of his future greatness and eloquence - sweet words would come out of his mouth. (The same story is told of Plato.) After his father's death the family returned to Italy, where he practiced law in the Roman Courts and about the year 370 he was appointed governor of the province of which Milan was the capital. About this time he became a catechumen, which is the stage where one receives instruction in the Christian faith before being baptised. In 374 the see of Milan became vacant. It had been usurped and held tyrannically for almost 20 years by Auxentius, an Arian (a heresy which denied the true divinity of jesus Christ). milan was now torn apart by the two factions, with some clergy and laity wanting another Arian bishop, whilst others wanted one who was a main stream catholic. As governor, Ambrose felt it his duty to go to the church where the assembly was being held, where he urged both parties to proceed peaceably to the election of a new bishop. The story goes that, while he was still speaking, a child cried out "Ambrose Bishop" - a cry which was taken up by the whole assembly. Ambrose wanted to decline the call, fleeing and hiding, but he could not escape. He was baptised, and shortly afterwards, on 7th December 373, he was consecrated Bishop. His 22 years as Bishop of Milan (he died on 4 April 397 ) were busy ones. He instructed the flood of new converts to Christianity, and at the same time withstood paganism and Arianism. When a group of senators wanted to have a statue of the goddess of victory restored to the senate house in Rome, Ambrose intervened and persuaded the young emperor Valentinian II not to give permission. Latwer, when the empress- regent, Justina, ordered him to hand over a building to the Arians for a church he refused. He was the first teacher in the west to make extensive use of hymns, both as a means of praise and of instruction. His literary works have been acclaimed as masterpieces of Latin eloquence, and his musical accomplishments are remembered in his hymns. Ambrose is also remembered as the teacher who converted and baptized St. Augustine of Hippo, the great Christian theologian, and as a model bishop who viewed the church as rising above the ruins of the Roman Empire. Ambrose's reputation after his death was unchallenged. For Augustine, he was the model bishop: a biography was written in 412 by Paulinus, deacon of Milan, at Augustine's instigation. To Augustine's opponent, Pelagius, Ambrose was "the flower of Latin eloquence." Of his sermons, the Expositio evangelii secundum Lucam (390; "Exposition of the Gospel According to Luke") was widely circulated. Yet, Ambrose is a Janus-like figure. He imposed his will on emperors. But he never considered himself as a precursor of a polity in which the church dominated the state: for he acted from a traditional fear that Christianity might yet be eclipsed by a pagan nobility and Catholicism uprooted in Milan by Arian courtiers. His attitude to the learning he used was similarly old- fashioned. Pagans and heretics, he said, "dyed their impieties in the vats of philosophy"; yet his sermons betray the pagan mysticism of Plotinus in its most unmuted tints. In a near-contemporary mosaic in the chapel of S. Satiro in the church of S. Ambrogio, Milan, Ambrose appears as he wished to be seen: a simple Christian bishop clasping the book of Gospels. Yet the manner in which he set about his duties as a bishop ensured that, to use his own image, the Catholic Church would rise "like a growing moon" above the ruins of the Roman Empire. Here ends the Lesson Very best regards Allister C. Guy Secretary Edinburgh and Midlothian Beekeepers Association. -- Allister C. Guy -- Allister C. Guy -- End --