Received: from [169.226.1.21] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id AEF4163A0052; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:47:16 -0700 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1777; Wed, 13 Nov 96 01:50:30 EST Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 9692; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:47:29 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:47:25 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1 (1.8b)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9610A" To: "W. Allen Dick" X-UIDL: 478 Status: U ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:37:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mary Caldwell Subject: Essential Oils for Hive Medication Hi! Forgive me if this is a subject that has already been discussed, but I think I heard somewhere that essential oils can be used to successfully treat some bee diseases. Could someone please tell me which essential oils are used, in what manner, and for which bee diseases? I'd like to use as few chemicals as necessary in treating my hives (I'll be getting my first hives in the spring). Many thanks in advance for your help! Mary Caldwell Benicia, CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 03:16:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Blohm Subject: Re: Allergy control and bee products In a message dated 96-09-29 12:19:58 EDT, you write: << I think it must be the goldenrod and it only makes sense because I haven't been eating goldenrod honey. We only fill small containers for private and local sales during mid-season when the best floural sorces like clover and alfalfa are producing. As a concequence, I've made myself immune to those pollens . >> A doctor once told me that he tested a number of his patience who had allergies by perscribing honey. He said he found that it worked on spring allergies but did not work on fall allergies because in the fall most people are allergic to rag weed. It has been my observation that bees do not go onto rag weed and thus none of its pollen is in the honey. I don't think It's goldenrod that is causing the allergic reaction. I would be interested to hear your results with fall honey next year. Rich Blohm, NY ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:27:07 +0100 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: BEE BLOWER / tipping Bryan Clements wrote: > > Your discussions on tipping and bee blowers is interesting. After trying > fume boards, bee go etc, we have for the last 12 years used Hitachi > portable blowers to remove bees from honey box's. Its Hitachi code is PB-20. > It draws 335 watts supplied by a small 240 volt petrol generator. We cover > the intake with a wire mesh so the bees are not sucked in to the turbo that > spins at 13000 rpm. Its weight is 2 kg and is simple to use. If anyone want to see how it looks, you can find it on http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/blower.htm -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 10:12:44 +0000 Reply-To: Janko.Bozic@uni-lj.si Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Janko Bozic Subject: Re: Carniolans - "Old World," "New World," "Yugos," HELP! There were several messages posted on Bee-L about Carniolans. I'd like to explain origin of the name. I believe that most of the beekeepers in the world don't know why beekeepers in around the world name Apis mellifera carnica Poll. Carniolan Bee. Germans and other german speaking beekeepers call this bee with latin name Carnica, but in english speaking beekeepers Carniolans. Why ? Hundred years ago and more Carniolan beekepers started with modern trade of bees over seas. It lasted in the middle of this century. Who are this Carniolan beekeepers? Most of you know that carniolans were exported from Austria-Hungarian Empire before WWI, Later (after 1918) that was from Austria and Yugoslavia. The most developed trade of Carniolan bees was from the the county called Carniola. Two of very known beekepers were Strgar and Ambrozic. At that time this county was part of Austria, latter part of Yugoslavia and after split of Yugoslavia, the whole county Carniola is part of Slovenia. In fact, the largest part of our country is Carniola and synonym for Slovenians is also Carniolans. Beekeeping in Slovenia is very well developed. We have also several queen breeders. Many 1000 queens are also exported across the Europe each year. Even we are small country with small beekeeping population we believe that queen breeding is prospective for our country since we are keeping bees in authentic carniolan region which enables our ancestors to breed very popular bees for export over seas. If there is anyone interesting to get some more information, please contact me. If you have some questions about queen breeding program in Slovinia, you can contact also Dr. Janez Poklukar at e-mail: Janez.Poklukar@uni-lj.si With regards, Janko Bozic ==================================================================== Dr. Janko Bozic University of Ljubljana Biotechnical Faculty, Department of Biology Vecna pot 111, p.p. 2995 1001 Ljubljana SLOVENIA tel. (386) 61-265-584, (386) 61-265-585 fax. (386) 61-273-390 e-mail: janko.bozic@uni-lj.si ==================================================================== SLOVENIA - Homeland of Carniolan Bee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 16:26:43 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Looking for James Amrine? I have the following address for Jim Amrine: Jim Amrine Division of Plant & Soil Sciences P. O. Box 6108, West Virginia University Morgantown, WV 26506-6108 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <> Telephone: 304-293-6023 <> <> Fax: 304-293-2960 <> <> web: http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa.htm <> Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************* * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:19:40 -0500 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Essential Oils for Hive Medication Mary Caldwell wrote: > > Hi! > > Forgive me if this is a subject that has already been discussed, but I think > I heard somewhere that essential oils can be used to successfully treat some > bee diseases. Could someone please tell me which essential oils are used, in > what manner, and for which bee diseases? I'd like to use as few chemicals as > necessary in treating my hives (I'll be getting my first hives in the > spring). > > Many thanks in advance for your help! > > Mary Caldwell > Benicia, CA Mary - I think you will find what you are looking for at this web site: http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa.htm -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:37:13 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Benefits of fall feeding? > Jerry Fries wrote: > > Jerry, > > My experience is that 2:1 or over tends to granulate in the comb far > more quickly than a concentration of slightly less than 2:1. There should be no difference, if it is properly mixed. The bees should reduce the water to less than 18% immediately on storing it. If not, look out! > The > big bendfit of heavy syrup is that you can get 100 lbs into the hive > in just a few days. Additionally, bees don't drown in thick syrup the way they do in thin syrup (due to density and surface tension), so open feeders and hive top feeders work much better with the thicker syrup. > So it doesn't matter much if the bees see it as > nectar or not it is not a long term source. Thin syrups can stimulate brood rearing, and in the fall, the additional moisture to be driven off can causethe hive interior to be damp. If the bees don't take it, the thick syrup is much slower to ferment, and it does not pick up the colour of the materials it touches the way that thin syrup does. Moreover, since I feed 80,000 pounds of 66% each fall, I don't want to be trucking an extra 10 or 20,000 pounds of water around the country and providing the extra storage space for it. Make it thick syrup for me. BTW, I prefer thick syrup in the spring too. Same reasons. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:37:58 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: bee asso. addresses In-Reply-To: <874014C7017@plant3.agric.za> In article <874014C7017@plant3.agric.za>, MIKE ALLSOPP writes >What I am looking for is the postal address of the national >beekeeping association in each of the following countries: > >USA, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, UK, Netherlands, >France, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Australia, New Zealand > > >Many thanks > >Mike Allsopp Mike, The 1996 Beekeepers Annual mentions a number of organizations that may be relevant to your enquiry. Wherever possible, I shall give you the address of the secretary :- The British Beekeepers Association ================================== Adrian C. Waring BBKA Headquarters The National Agricultural Centre Stoneleigh Park Warwickshire CV8 2LZ England Tel: 01203 696679 Fax: 01203 690682 The Federation of Irish Beekeepers Associations =============================================== Peter O'Reilly 11 Our Lady's Place Naas Co. Kildare Ireland Tel: 045 897568 The Scottish Beekeepers Association =================================== Mrs. Una A. Robertson North Trinity House 114 Trinity Road Edinburgh EH5 3JZ Scotland Tel: 0131 5525341 The Welsh Beekeepers Association ================================ B.D. Rowlands Trem y Clawdd Fron Isaf, Y Waun Clwyd LL14 5AH Wales Tel: 01691 773300 Council of the National Beekeeping Associations of the United Kingdom ===================================================================== Ken Ibbotson Brooklyns End Murton Co. Durham SR7 9NR England Tel: 0191 526 1893 Fax: 0191 526 1893 I hope that this helps. - Paul - -- Paul Walton Email : Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk Snail : 78 Russell Road, Toddington, Bedfordshire. LU5 6QF. England Tel. : +44 (0)1525 875570 Fax. : +44 (0)1525 875570 ________________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:17:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: mvdfv@mvcss.mvcss Subject: Re: Re; Queen Quality > Or a lure of Bee Boost which would have convinced them they had a good > queen. I don't understand this. Is this something you put in the hive or am I just way out there and not reading this correctly? Dave Verville ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:01:23 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul van Westendorp of AGF 576-5600 Fax: 576-5652" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 29 Sep 1996 to 30 Sep 1996 In-Reply-To: <01IA3QS122WIAPUGQI@saturn.gov.bc.ca> Mike Allsopp, For Canada, the national organisation is: Canadian Honey Council P.O. Box 1566 Nipawin, Saskatchewan S0E 1E0 Paul van Westendorp pvanwesten@galaxy.gov.bc.ca Provincial Apiarist British Columbia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:47:52 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Statistical significance of ibuprofen/bee sting reactions Amen brother , There was a line backer for the seattle sehawks ( Ithink it was kenny easly) who had kidney failure from Ibuprofin.Once again we have a situation where a person wants to stop pain.A good approach is to use an anti inflammatory drug,but the problem is a minor allergy to histimines making the pain and itching. So is there a reason a person would want to treat a reaction with thattype of drug? Not me , If I used anything at all it would be an anti allergy drug like an antihistimine,that is after all what is causing the problem to begin with. But the best possible approach I believe is to ask your doctor what is best for your particular situation. Discussing medicine long distance is not a very safe approach , since we each may need something different. Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 15:09:00 CST6CDT Reply-To: daniel.houg@sunny.health.state.mn.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Houg Organization: MN DEPT OF HEALTH Subject: synthetic vs. natural oils re: varroa control In the editorial by Amrine, Stasny, and Skidmore concerning varroa control with wintergreen and spearmint oils I don't see mention of whether they used the natural based product or a synthetic substitute. The synthetics are much less expensive and I was wondering which product was used in Bob Noel's experiments. Anyone know or have information on synthetic vs natural oils? Lorann Oils, the company mentioned in the article sells both. Daniel Houg Section of Drinking Water Protection Minnesota Department of Health voice: 218/755-3820 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 15:57:03 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout <102336.711@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Bee sting hype ><< People, including beekeepers love to worry about diminishingly improbably > events. Take for example the ibuprofen flurry lately. >> > > All I can say, Justin, is that it happened to me. There may be high odds that only 1 or 2 people that read this list may be endangered by using these drugs and getting stung by a bee. It could be that hundreds of people might develop the symptom. If in the dissemination of this information on this list we have saved 1 person's life, I don't see it as hype or a diminishing probability. Thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of worthless posts are worth 1 persons life in my opinion. If you were that one person, perhaps knowing not to use ibuprofen saved your life. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:46:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: bee invasion of workshop, how to save them from death. Re Tom Allen's problem with bees invading his workshop.. Although I have not had the same problem as Tom has, once a year I need to remove live bees from my "honey house." .When we built our home ten years ago, I planned for the screen porch to also be a honey extracting room (see my aticle in Bee Culture/Gleanings of several years back entitled from Screen Porch to Extracting Room). When I bring in the supers there are invariably several dozen bees clinging to them or inside them. These bees then cluster at the top of the screen panels as they seek the light and try to get back to their hives. I place a clean bag in my vacuum cleaner and suck them all in. Then I take the bag outside and slit it open. The bees are usually pretty woozy from their high speed trip into the bag but, once they get their "legs under them" again, usually take off and head for home. I find that am able to save about two thirds of them this way. The others usually don't make it, probably because of the trauma of the vacuum trip. But at least I am able to save some of them. Faith Andrews Bedford.....FaithAB@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:36:53 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: Re: bee invasion of workshop, how to save them from death. A general approach for removing bees from inside: - darken all but one access. The bee will fly toward the light. - for this access have a the ability to have a double screen. The bees fly to the screen. Place second screen over the window. Go out side and remove the first screen. Replace screen less the bees. Go back inside and remove second screen. Repeat as required. The purpose of the two screens is to keep the robbers waiting outside for entering an you let the others leave. This would work vey well with Anderson type windows with the inside screen. Just let the bee pile up on the window. Install the screen. Crank the handle to open the window and pesto. I've never done this, but I did read a article on the web somewhere that was in effect this method. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:52:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Beluch Subject: Re: Reviving Beekeeping Badge Dear Bee-L'rs Thank you for all you responses, positive & negative. I've been in contact with the BSA directors office regarding the badge, and was informed that it was under consideration for re-instatement. I am currently waiting a call back from the director to find out what exactly it will take to get it going again. I have my suspicions, and I don't want to be premature, but I certainly also don't want to beat a dead horse. In the meanwhile, I would like to ask another favor. Could the members (in the US) of the Bee-L list write me with their State Association information? A contact name & association address would be helpful. I'm looking to amass all 50. When I'm done, I'll post the information to the list. If this really gets going, and we're able to re-instate, I'll volunteer to be the interface. My wife's a computer programmer, so maybe there's a home page on the not-so-distant horizon. Thanks to all, and I'll certainly keep the list 'posted' as it were. Mike Beluch ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:00:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: HELP! ON FROM ONE SUCH Friends, "Maverick" is a fluvalinate-based chemical used for treating ticks and fleas on animals. It is far sight cheaper than Apistan strips ($18.95/10) used for treating Varroa mite. Does anybody know the rate of application per hive and how applied? Thanks in advance. P.S. New topic. Will two tablespoons of PDB applied per sealed doublebrooded hive, with drawn comb but no bees, prevent wax-moth infestation? Otra vez, merci beaucoup. jack the bman wed 2oct96 1101edt ***john iannuzzi phd ***beekeeper, 36 years ***13 italian hives ***historic ellicott city md (10 mi W balto) ***`there is some good in things evil: thus honeybees collect nectar from the weed' (Shkspr) ***URL: http://www.xmetric.com/honey (honey always wanted/sold) ***email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [13sep960900] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:24:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Palm, Kevin R. (LLP)" Subject: Heather Honey?? Hello all, I've been wanting to try some heather honey but have been unable to do so. Is there anyone in the U.S. or Canada who sells heather honey?? Thanks, Kevin Palm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:02:09 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dirk Howard Organization: Helius, Inc. http://www.helius.com Subject: Re: HELP! ON FROM ONE SUCH John Iannuzzi wrote: > > Friends, "Maverick" is a fluvalinate-based chemical used for treating > ticks and fleas on animals. It is far sight cheaper than Apistan strips > ($18.95/10) used for treating Varroa mite. Does anybody know the rate of > application per hive and how applied? Thanks in advance. > P.S. New topic. Will two tablespoons of PDB applied per sealed > doublebrooded hive, > with drawn comb but no bees, prevent wax-moth infestation? Otra vez, > merci beaucoup. > jack the bman wed 2oct96 1101edt > > ***john iannuzzi phd > ***beekeeper, 36 years > ***13 italian hives > ***historic ellicott city md (10 mi W balto) > ***`there is some good in things evil: thus > honeybees collect nectar from the weed' (Shkspr) > ***URL: http://www.xmetric.com/honey (honey always wanted/sold) > ***email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [13sep960900] Maverick is not labeled or registered for use within a beehive. To do so would be in violation of federal and state laws. Also, Maverick is a water soluble formulation of fluvalinate. This woould be much more likely to contaminate honey than the fluvalinate that is found in Apistan. My recommendation. DO NOT USE ANY CHEMICALS IN THE HIVE THAT ARE NOT APPROVED FOR SUCH USE! The honey industry cannot afford a problem like apple growers had with Alar. Dirk -- Dirk W. Howard mailto:dhoward@helius.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:13:18 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: Re: HELP! ON FROM ONE SUCH > Friends, "Maverick" is a fluvalinate-based chemical used for treating > ticks and fleas on animals. It is far sight cheaper than Apistan strips > ($18.95/10) used for treating Varroa mite. Does anybody know the rate of > application per hive and how applied? Thanks in advance. The application method used with Apistan is designed specifically to avoid contamination and to provide a very controlled release of the product in a beehive. Attempting to formulate an application method of any poison in a different form is toying with disaster. Yes, it is does cost more, however the research and development costs, as well as the approval costs are all passed on the the consumer. Until there are approved alternatives there won't be any bargains. In my mind it is better to play it safe and use the product designed for the purpose. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:29:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Griggs Subject: Re: HELP! ON FROM ONE SUCH In-Reply-To: <3252A011.75097CE8@helius.com> >John Iannuzzi wrote: >> >> Friends, "Maverick" is a fluvalinate-based chemical used for treating >> ticks and fleas on animals. It is far sight cheaper than Apistan strips >> ($18.95/10) used for treating Varroa mite. Does anybody know the rate of >> application per hive and how applied? Thanks in advance. >> P.S. New topic. Will two tablespoons of PDB applied per sealed >> doublebrooded hive, >> with drawn comb but no bees, prevent wax-moth infestation? Otra vez, >> merci beaucoup. >> jack the bman wed 2oct96 1101edt >> >> ***john iannuzzi phd >> ***beekeeper, 36 years >> ***13 italian hives >> ***historic ellicott city md (10 mi W balto) >> ***`there is some good in things evil: thus >> honeybees collect nectar from the weed' (Shkspr) >> ***URL: http://www.xmetric.com/honey (honey always wanted/sold) >> ***email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [13sep960900] > > >Maverick is not labeled or registered for use within a beehive. To do >so would be in violation of federal and state laws. Also, Maverick is a >water soluble formulation of fluvalinate. This woould be much more >likely to contaminate honey than the fluvalinate that is found in >Apistan. > >My recommendation. DO NOT USE ANY CHEMICALS IN THE HIVE THAT ARE NOT >APPROVED FOR SUCH USE! The honey industry cannot afford a problem like >apple growers had with Alar. > >Dirk >-- >Dirk W. Howard >mailto:dhoward@helius.com Additionally it is the use "homemade" fluvalinate soaked wood blocks used in Europe that is suspect in the occurance of resistant strains of varroa there. Similarly the missuse of antibiotics is thought to fuel bacterial resistance to common pathogens in humans. Often the short term savings have dire consequences from a long term perspective. Mike .-~~~-. / } / .-~ \ | } \.~~-.-~| . -~_ / \./ \/\ { O | ` .-~. ; ~-.__ __{^\_ _}_ ) }/^\ ~--~/-|_\| : : .-~ / /\_/^\._}_/ // / / | \~ - - ~ ( (__{(@)}\__}.//_/_____/_____|____\_______________ \__/{/(_)\_} )\\ \\--------------------------------- ( (__)_)_/ )\ \> Mike Griggs mhg@cornell.edu \__/\__/ Entomologist/Support Scientist HTTP://www.ppru.cornell.edu/biocontrol/griggs.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:31:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kim Flottum Subject: Re: Reviving Beekeeping Badge Mike If you will send us your snail mail address we can provide you with a list of Associations from all 50 states and Canada (if this applies). This is as a result of our Who's Who Directory that we publish every year. On a more personal level, I have boys that are now in Cub Scouts and would be glad to help you out in any way on this 'mission'. Thanks Kathy Summers Bee Culture Magazine ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:00:13 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout <102336.711@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Introducing a Queen Last week I discovered that one of my queens has been laying sporadic brood and needed to be requeened. I ordered a buckfast queen from R. Weaver in Navasota, TX and she arrived yesterday. We are having a cold front come through later today so I had to get her in today or end up waiting about 5 days. So I introduced her in the cage but as I started, I remembered several conflicting pieces of advice. I've been told to point the hole in the candy end down. I've been told to point it up. I've heard that I shouldn't point it straight up but angled up. I've been told not to worry about the attendants, introduce her with them. I've been told to remove all the attendants. I've been told to remove all but one attendant. I've been told to introduce her in the frames at the middle of the brood nest. I have also heard that we should introduce in the frames nest to the brood nest. Some people just let the queen walk in the hive. Now I know that if you ask ten beekeepers a question you'll get eleven different answers. Isn't there some common wisdom? Or is it that certain methods become the accepted common wisdom and them someone does a study proving that the accepted common wisdom is flawed. Then some people change and others stick to what they've been doing. So we have people offering contradictory advice. Or could it be that certain situations require different strategies? I could see that queen introduction is different with package bees because you wouldn't remove the attendants. Also if you didn't remove the attendants, you wouldn't point the hole down because the bees in the hive would kill the attendants and then they would clog the queens exit. If you do remove attendants, how do you do it without losing the queen? I may be starting some controversy but I'm wondering why I've heard conflicting advice on queen introduction. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:18:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ray Lackey Subject: 4-H Youth Beekeeping Project I had tried to get into UC Davis computer for FTP of beekeeping 4-H booklets as discussed herre a couple years ago. I tried login as "anonymous" and using my user name as password. That didn't work. I then tried to send mail to almanac@ucdavis.edu with the send guide command to get the files via mail. That came back "user unknown". Does anyone out there know where those files are available? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Raymond J. Lackey, EAS Master Beekeeper, Pres LIBC + + Twelve years exper with 25 colonies on Long Island, NY+ + INTERNET: lackeyr@hazeltine.com + + Mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia NY 11617-2176 + + Home Phone: 516-567-1936 FAX: 516-262-8053 + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:27:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: MAVERICK REGARDING RE>MAVERICK John Iannuzzi wrote: The answer lies in the original premise, "...used for treating ticks and fleas on animals." Mites are not ticks nor fleas, nor are bees your usual -barnyard- animals. Therefore, there is no rate of application, nor is the formulation to be applied to beehives at all. As has already been suggested, to do otherwise is to look for trouble, when we have trouble enough as it is. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:55:32 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: Re: Introducing a Queen I'm also interested in the answer. One other variable in queen introduction to consider is the state of the hive. - Queen replacement - bees are not missing queen substance yet - Recently queenless with brood still emerging. Emerging brood will attend the new queen and make introduction more likely - Hopelessly queenless with no emerging brood. Candy up in case attendants die, they won't block entrance. My experience so far has been one failed introduction to a hive with no queen and emerging brood. I just placed the queen and attendants in the hive. No go. I'm awaiting a queen. This time I will add two frames of emerging brood, to supply new attendants, and place the cage between the frames. I plan to remove the attendants to help things along. One other approach for tough introductions is a screen queen cage pushed into a frame over emerging brood with only the queen. The idea being that the emerging brood will attend the queen and by the time the bees dig out the screen everything is fine. I'm toying with using this approach. Comment anyone. Jim Moore aiag.enet.dec.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:49:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Beluch Subject: More on the Beekeeping Badge.... Today I spoke with Mr. John Dalrymple, Director, Advancement/NESA, Boy Scouts of America. He was very helpful and informative about the beekeeping merit badge. In essence, he oversees a council which, as one of its functions, tracks the popularity of individual merit badges. Some merit badges fall into the category of having 45,000- 90,000 granted annually. Whenever a badge falls below 1000 grants per year across the country (it was 700 in 1994), it is put on review. Unfortunately, Beekeeping got the ax on September 1, 1995. This is not to say that it is a lost cause. Mr Dalrymple was very candid with me, and gave me suggestions for a proposal. Basically the council would vote on any proposal, and then make it's recommendation. He could not promise anything. However, he did make it a point to inform me that the reponse (although a paltry 20-30 complaints) was the most he's seen for a discontinued badge. Normally, he says, they really don't hear a word. The real problem is, success isn't cheap. Now that the badge is dead, it would have to be re-instituted (i.e. reworked). The booklet is revised, the badge redesigned (maybe) and efforts are made to make the badge more appealing to the scouts. This has a one-time fee of about $20,000. Badges and booklets are then reviewed on a five-year basis for revisions, reprinting etc. But the badges and booklets are basically self-financing once the badge is reinstated. My proposal is this: Objectives: 1) To raise funds via volunteer contributions from the 50 State Beekeeping associations across the country. If all 50 joined in, it would only be $400 per association. Once. Finito. Heck, maybe some of the bigger commercial companies would even pitch in ! 2) To have beekeepers register with their local scout councils to be Merit badge advisors. Hopefully the state beekeeping associations could help facilitate these communications. They need people willing to donate time, expertise, and possibly, equipment. For the hobbyist, how can you beat teaching a new generation of beekeepers? And for the commercial fellows, hey, you're helping to ensure future customers. I know some of the commercial yards would be unwilling to help because of possible litigation, insurance concerns, etc. OK, but why not give scouts and scout councils a price break? Sell them the equipment, bees, etc at wholesale or at cost when they start out. How much is that really going to cost, versus possible return? 3) To have people already involved with the badge try to promote interest within their local packs. Nothing would be more compelling, I think, then letters from lots of scouts (and scout masters) interested in the badge. This would kind of be my 'second-stage' approach to the proposal. What I need from the Beekeeping community is a pledge of support. I will be talking to my State (NJ) officials about generating interest. I'm also hopefully going to try to say a few words at the Del Val (PA) meeting in November. But my travel budget is limited !!! If people on the list could help me with the following info, it would be great !!! A) Names, address, telephone (or email) of your local State Assoc. president. B) Contact persons with all the industry periodicals, such as Apis, ABJ, Bee Culture, so that maybe they'll run a piece on this effort. C) Letters of intent from commercial or hobby beekeepers willing to help. Please email them or US mail them to me (address at bottom). Make them RE: Reinstating the Beekeeping Merit Badge, and please include your name and address in the letter/email. Say in your message you'd be willing to volunteer time to be a Beekeeping Merit Badge advisor, or in the case of commercial companies, be willing to offer discounts to scouts undertaking this badge. I really feel a concerted effort would produce the required results. Like I've said previously, I was in the scouts and don't remember even hearing/reading about this badge [could also be that I was a brat ;-) ]. But I'll tell you, when I do demonstrations in front of kids, or lend them video tapes on bees and beekeeping, well, just to see their faces is enough payback. And this is a good way for the industry/hobby to start renewing itself. I guess lastly I would say this effort will hinge on the ability of the individual state organizations to be able to pledge the funds. But I think this is possible. Please help me out. Send any info you believe will help to me at the following addresses: Mike Beluch beluch@webspan.net (preferred for this stuff) or beluchm@pt.cyanamid.com 4 Dubois Round Belle Mead, NJ 08502 My daytime telephone is 609-716-2344. thanks ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:07:53 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Mavrik Way back in the dark ages (probably at least six months ago!) I sent a post to the group re. Mavrik, so it's interesting to see the product mentioned again. Mavrik is used to control a number of pests besides ticks and fleas on animals (and varroa and tropilaelaps in bees). According to the trade brochure I have, it is also recommended for a variety of seed crops, fruits, vegetables and even cut flowers. Target pests include grey cabbage aphid, clover case bearer moth, blue green aphid, thrips, whitefly, two spotted mite, European red mite, black cherry aphid, leafcurl plum aphid, green peach aphid, and leafroller. Here in New Zealand, Mavrik is used extensively as a pre-blossom insecticide on kiwifruit. When the chemical was given approval for this use, beekeepers here jumped for joy, because fluvalinate (the active ingredient) is much more bee-friendly for leafroller control than other chemicals such as azinphos-methyl. Because kiwifruit bloom is staggered, we used to have growers spraying the crop just before blossom in one orchard, and poisoning foraging bees from hives which had been put into flowering blocks in adjacent orchards. Now we have virutally no bee deaths caused by leafroller sprays in kiwifruit. Mavrik has now also been approved here in New Zealand for thrip control on avocadoes during blooming, which has also significantly reduced the number of bee kills on that crop. What's interesting to me in all of this, however, is that Mavrik has so far not been registered for use on either of these crops as a post-blossom (developing fruit) spray. I have been told by someone here in New Zealand the reason is that no acceptable residual levels have been established on fruits and vegetables. I presume this is only because the chemical hasn't gone through the long and involved registration process. In closing, I thought I'd ask the same question I asked many moons ago to the group (and got no replies) -- does anyone know anything more about residue levels of fluvalinate on fruits and vegetables? Has a limit been set for the chemical on food stuffs anywhere overseas? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:52:44 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: fall requeening I was checking some hives yesterday which I had requeened a couple of weeks earlier. I had killed the queens and left the hives queenless for a day. Then I removed three outside frames and introduced three frame nucs with laying queens into the middle of the top box. I found that some of the hives had killed their new queen and are queenless. I doubt that I would have had any problem earlier, but the bees are in intense robbing mode. What should I have done differently? I would rather not have to use newspaper and extra boxes if there was another method. Has anyone tried spraying the bees with light syrup? If I had waiting two weeks I could have made the introductions after I started feeding, but the nucs were getting crowded in three frames. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 06:16:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Andy Anderson)" Subject: New Beginnings October 1 is the day that the beekeeping year begins for me. For many years I have gone it into the bee yards to weigh my hives. I don't trust my "hefting" of hives to determine how much they weigh going into winter. With my scale, I have a reference to determine if help is needed and enough time before serious winter to make necessary adjustments.. Years ago I established minimum weight that insured that a hive would survive the winter without starving and if a hive exceeds my minimum , I can be pretty well assured it will be alive , strong and healthy in the spring. I have found that if a hive consisting of two deep boxes weight 100 pounds or a hive consisting of one deep box with a medium food chamber weighs 95 pounds the survival rate is near 100% I never leave extra supers on a hive. To me that is a waste and complicates manipulations in the spring. I do believe that a beekeeper should set aside one super of honey for every three hives he has.. To methis is good spring insurance. If feed is needed in the spring, I favor adding frames of honey near the cluster rather than using feeders. If you have never considered weighting your hive to make your winter preparations. you might consider it Beemanaa@aol.com (Andy Anderson0 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:05:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Cold Weather Bee Tips The first real cold is now spreading across the midwest and heading for the northeast. Some thoughts on fall/winter management for your consideration: 1. Almost all empty comb should now be removed from ABOVE the cluster. Empty space is a heavy drain on the bees, as they have to heat this space. This increases honey consumption and winter losses. Any supers left on the hives should be mostly full of honey or syrup. Full supers act as a heat bank for the bees. They have to keep it warm, but it also helps keep them warm. Some who removed supers early for Apistan treatment, and/or syrup feeding are finding bees hanging out a lot. This is not unusual, since a lot of bees cannot fit into a congested brood nest. If they have any late honey flow, this increases the effect, as the bees have the nectar to dry out, and they go on outside to let the few "fanners" have a good airflow. If you feel they need space, place a box of comb UNDER the brood nest for a couple weeks or a month. Since heat rises, boxes underneath do not drain heat from the cluster, but they do provide space for the bees. I wouldn't leave it there all winter, as it is an open invitation to mice. 2. Hives should now be SOLID. Grab the handhold at the rear and heft the back. If it doesn't feel *anchored* to the ground, they need feed. It is getting late for syrup, in the north, but dry sugar can be fed anytime. There is a lot of info on winter stores/feeding. I'll just note the need to be aware. 3. Be wary of excluders. If you have a big cluster and ONLY one shallow super above an excluder, AND winters are not too severe where you are at, you'll probably be okay, as only part of the cluster will ever go above the excluder, leaving a good part below to keep the queen. But many hives are lost, because excluders are left on hives with two or three supers; the cluster moves on up, during the winter, leaving the queen below the exluder to freeze or starve. (I've done this myself; I shamefully admit!) 4. CULL the junk! If it looks pretty iffy whether the hive will survive the winter, it probably won't; at least it's not worth the risk. It is easy to make up more bees come spring, and you will be preserving your best stock (Selective Breeding). Hives that have very much chalkbrood, or look poor, greasy, smell sour, have greasy, dark cappings on capped brood, have a lot of pupae that are not capped (bald brood), or just will not take syrup feeding, are good candidates for elimination. Kill the queen, and combine with a good colony. Do not combine two junk hives, as they still have the same problems. Some will argue with me on this, saying that they could probably get the hive through the winter by lots of care and feeding. I say, if it is junk now, it will be junk in the spring, even if it does survive. If you feed a junk hive now, it probably will die, and waste the feed you gave it. But, if it doesn't, you will still be nursing it come spring, and will still not have a quality hive. It might even make a bunch of low quality drones to mate with your good stock. Now is a good time to get rid of it! It doesn't matter whether the problem is a failing queen, or genetic weakness to stress diseases; you have solved it, if you cull now. A good flow, in season, will heal, or appear to heal, a lot of problems, but no problem will heal over winter. ONE EXCEPTION TO ABOVE: If your weak hive has American Foulbrood, burn it. Do not contaminate good bees by combining it. 5. Make sure your bees have protection from cold winds. The best spots for winter have sunshine, but good air drainage, and a good windbreak to the northwest. Bees that are exposed to cold winds can burn up a lot of honey in a hurry, and they will, at least be weakened, if not killed by the effort to keep warm. The subject of wrapping/not wrapping is extensively debated. I'll leave that issue to others. But be sure to have some kind of top vent. On cold nights, frost will form on the bottom of the cover. Then as it warms, it will drip onto the bees. They must have a way to get rid of the moisture. There are lots of ways to do this. The simplest I have ever seen, is to place a bottle cap under one corner of the inner cover. 6. Protect the bees from MICE. In cold weather, they will not drive out mice, who find it a convenient, warm place to overwinter, nest, and destroy a lot of comb below the cluster. There are many ways to do it. Keep the weeds cleared from around the hives, put out poison bait, reduce the entrances. Wooden entrance reducers are sometimes chewed. Better entrance reducers can be made, if you tack on a piece of metal flashing, which mice won't ususally chew. I'm sure others will want to add more tips. This is just a starter. And I've focused on some things that are often missed. Happy wintering. May your bees be hummin' next spring. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:09:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: New Beginnings Hi Andy, I wonder what part of the country you are in. I don't think our hives need to weigh that much here in Northern California. Mary ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 18:07:38 +0100 Reply-To: beeman@kuai.se Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Requeening Stan Sandler wrote: > > I was checking some hives yesterday which I had requeened a couple of weeks > earlier. I had killed the queens and left the hives queenless for a day. > Then I removed three outside frames and introduced three frame nucs with > laying queens into the middle of the top box. I found that some of the > hives had killed their new queen and are queenless. I doubt that I would > have had any problem earlier, but the bees are in intense robbing mode. > What should I have done differently? I would rather not have to use > newspaper and extra boxes if there was another method. Has anyone tried > spraying the bees with light syrup? If I had waiting two weeks I could have > made the introductions after I started feeding, but the nucs were getting > crowded in three frames. There is a method that a beekeeper here has invented that works to 99% for me. I look up the old queen and put her in a cage between frames in the broodnest. After TWO days I remove the cage with the old queen and replace it with another cage containing the new queen. That cage should have no attendants and the bees should be able to eat her out. I have done this at all times of year. It is important that the old queen is left two days only, otherwise the bees start to make emergency cells and will not accept the new queen. The bees feel there is something wrong with the queen when she can't walk around and put her feromones on the comb. After two days they decide they need a new queen, but they will not start cells quite yet. That's when the beekeeper supply them with what they feel they need, and everyone is happy :-) The fellow that thought this out is Lars Hedlund, beekeeper in Sweden. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@kuai.se http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 16:05:20 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Re: Cold Weather Bee Tips Dave Green wrote: >1. Almost all empty comb should now be removed from ABOVE the cluster. > Empty space is a heavy drain on the bees, as they have to heat this space. > This increases honey consumption and winter losses. Any supers left on the >hives should be mostly full of honey or syrup. Full supers act as a heat bank >for the bees. They have to keep it warm, but it also helps keep them warm. Bees make a winter cluster on the combs. The cluster is heated with heat from bees in the center which consume honey. The cluster is insulated by the surrounding bees. Bees only heat their cluster. Heat escaping from the cluster carries carbon dioxide and water vapor away. Doesn't this system allow the bees to live in tall cavities in hollow trees and in tall stacks of supers? Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:21:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Massive Spraying Begins Today: Make them obey the law! If you are within the proposed mosquito application area of eastern North Carolina, you may be able to help prevent a secondary and man-made disaster - the loss of domestic and wild pollinators. Farmers, gardeners, food consumers, even wildlife, will be needing them again next spring for the pollination of our food crops, and even for the seeds and berries that the birds need. At 3 pm, the proposed time for the beginning of the application, please find some flowers that bees like. Goldenrod is ideal, since it is in full bloom and is widespread along the roadsides. See if bees are visiting the flowers. If they are visiting, it is in violation to apply the poison at this time, and the bees will drop as they are hit by spray droplets. Then our environment will become more barren. This happened in South Carolina after Hurricane Hugo, and it wiped out wild and kept pollinators in some areas, which still have not fully recovered. As a citizen, you can help to force officials to make the application in compliance with the law, which they have already indicated they will ignore. The pesticide is forbidden to be applied while bees are visiting the flowers. This is not just bees that are kept, but ALL bees, as the directions are clear. It is pesticide MISUSE to apply a pesticide without obeying the directions. If you have a camcorder, please take pictures of the bees foraging, and show the plane making application at the same time. We must hold accountable, those public officials who think they are above the law. Please call your local county officials, especially your vector control officer. Tell them you'll be taping the application. They all will try to pass the buck back to the state, but the state is responding to requests by the counties. They will also try to explain away the label directions. But if enough people call, they will get the message. They MUST obey the law. We are not against the program, the mosquitos are a real problem. But we are not talking about pesticide USE, we are talking about pesticide MISUSE. Sadly, they could have sprayed all day yesterday, without doing damage or being in violation, as the overcast kept the bees in their hives or nests. The Department of Health and Human Resources has clearly indicated their intention to IGNORE the label directions, by demanding that beekeepers "protect" the bees. This is an impossible task, and it is a means to circumvent the law, as expressed in the pesticide directions. There has been no notice of any monitoring by the department to see what are the ACTUAL times of bee foraging; rather they have indicated (by guesswork) that they will begin at 3 pm. That is too early on a mild, sunny day. As noted, they could have sprayed all day yesterday, without being in violation. Or they could spray at night, as is done in many areas of the country. But daytime applications require some kind of monitoring system to see when they actually do go to visit the flowers. Please contact us, if you record evidence that can be used; we may not be able to prevent this loss, but we hope to prevent future violations. Here, For Your Information, is a copy of a letter sent to Dr. Levine, who is the top man in the program (Raleigh) this morning: 10-3-96 Dear Dr. Levine: This is a preliminary notice of a possible claim against you and other state and county officials, IFproposed mosquito applications are made inviolation of label directions. We are notifying you, on behalf of beekeepers, that we intend to hold you accountable for any criminal pesticide misuse, malfeasance, and violations of the Bill of Rights. By your demands that beekeepers "protect" the bees, you have publically announced your intention to disregard the label directions. The label directions, if obeyed, already protect the bees as they forage. You have also made public notice that you will do an environmental malfeasance by destroying wild bees that have no human protection, also in violation of clear label directions. Your demand that beekeepers "protect" the bees, rather than you complying with label directions, is a seizure of property, without compensation, in violation of the Bill of Rights. Why should a commercial beekeeper be forced to travel many miles, to "protect" bees that are already protected if you obey the law, incur fuel costs, motel bills, labor, and other costs, if an effort to do what is essentially impossible. What about the guy who has multiple sites? And some of the bees are still inaccessible anyway, due to downed trees. What about the hobby beekeeper who must stay home from his regular job to "protect" his bees, so that you can circumvent compliance with the pesticide label. His boss might not like that! It is now 11:45 am. The sun is breaking through and the temperatures are mild. Bees are beginning to forage on goldenrod and other flowers in the proposed application area, and they WILL still be foraging at 3 pm, the proposed time of commencement. You have not indicated any way to actually monitor the foraging times of the bees, so as to comply with the label requirements. Sadly, the application could have proceeded all day yesterday, as the overcast prevented the bees from foraging. You missed that chance to comply. You could also comply with label directions by night time application, as many areas do. But, if you intend daytime application, you MUST have a monitoring system to see when bees actually quit foraging. Not to do so is grossly negligent, and in light of your announcements wilful and criminial, if the bees are out visiting the flowers in the treatment area. Honeybees are particularly vunerable at this season. It is too late for the bees to repair the damage, and replace the lost bees. When the first cold weather comes, the weakened hives will succumb, as we saw, after Hurricane Hugo. In effect, a weakened hive is a dead hive. All bees that are out in the application area will drop, and be lost. We hope that you will be pursuaded to fully comply with the law, as stated in the pesticide label directions, and protect ALL the bees, which are our primary pollinators. We will need them again next spring for our fruits and vegetables. Will they be gone, because you would not obey the law? Copies of this letter will be provided to the media. - From a victim of the illegal applications that followed Hurricane Hugo. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 07:56:32 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Wal;ter patton" Subject: Re: Mavrik Interesting this un approved use of chemicals by the very rightous kiwi bee keepers. In the USA the use of chemicals that are not labeled and approved for a particular uses is illegal and punisable. What other fast and loose ways are practiced down under. Eat American. Walter >Way back in the dark ages (probably at least six months ago!) I sent a >post to the group re. Mavrik, so it's interesting to see the product >mentioned again. > >Mavrik is used to control a number of pests besides ticks and fleas on >animals (and varroa and tropilaelaps in bees). According to the trade >brochure I have, it is also recommended for a variety of seed crops, >fruits, vegetables and even cut flowers. Target pests include grey >cabbage aphid, clover case bearer moth, blue green aphid, thrips, >whitefly, two spotted mite, European red mite, black cherry aphid, >leafcurl plum aphid, green peach aphid, and leafroller. > >Here in New Zealand, Mavrik is used extensively as a pre-blossom >insecticide on kiwifruit. When the chemical was given approval for this >use, beekeepers here jumped for joy, because fluvalinate (the active >ingredient) is much more bee-friendly for leafroller control than other >chemicals such as azinphos-methyl. Because kiwifruit bloom is >staggered, we used to have growers spraying the crop just before >blossom in one orchard, and poisoning foraging bees from hives which >had been put into flowering blocks in adjacent orchards. Now we have >virutally no bee deaths caused by leafroller sprays in kiwifruit. > >Mavrik has now also been approved here in New Zealand for thrip >control on avocadoes during blooming, which has also significantly >reduced the number of bee kills on that crop. > >What's interesting to me in all of this, however, is that Mavrik has so far >not been registered for use on either of these crops as a post-blossom >(developing fruit) spray. I have been told by someone here in New >Zealand the reason is that no acceptable residual levels have been >established on fruits and vegetables. I presume this is only because the >chemical hasn't gone through the long and involved registration process. > >In closing, I thought I'd ask the same question I asked many moons ago to >the group (and got no replies) -- does anyone know anything more about >residue levels of fluvalinate on fruits and vegetables? Has a limit been >set for the chemical on food stuffs anywhere overseas? > > Walter & Elisabeth Patton, 27-703 A Ka' ie'ie Rd., Papaikou HI.,96781 Ph./Fax. 808-964-5401 E-Mail hihoney@ilhawaii Beekeeper and Bed & Breakfast Owner in Hawaii http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/beeware.htm http://www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:18:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Cold Weather Bee Tips In a message dated 96-10-03 11:28:31 EDT, Pollinator writes: << The first real cold is now spreading across the midwest and heading for the northeast. Some thoughts on fall/winter management for your consideration: >> Thanks for the well and clearly stated winter info. Al Needham Alwine@aol.com Hobbyist Scituate, MA 02066 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 14:26:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Albert W. Needham" Subject: Re: Mavrik In a message dated 96-10-03 14:09:24 EDT, Walter Patton writes: << Interesting this un approved use of chemicals by the very rightous kiwi bee keepers. In the USA the use of chemicals that are not labeled and approved for a particular uses is illegal and punisable. What other fast and loose ways are practiced down under. Eat American. >> What is it with you Walter? Why do you have to keep flogging New Zealand? I do not feel that Bee-L is a forum for attacking others with your accusation about New Zealanders "Fast and Loose Ways" comment. Al Needham Alwine@aol.com Hobbyist Scituate,MA 02066 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 06:39:46 +1100 Reply-To: nickw@wave.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Nat Beekeepers Assn of NZ Subject: Re: Mavrik > Interesting this un approved use of chemicals by the very rightous > kiwi bee keepers. In the USA the use of chemicals that are not labeled > and approved for a particular uses is illegal and punisable. What > other fast and loose ways are practiced down under. Eat American. Oh, come on, Walter. Read the post! It said absolutely *nothing* about beekeepers using Mavrik. It described the use by kiwifruit and avocado *orchardists* of Mavrik on their crops. And it clearly described that these applications were approved uses by these same orchardists. As a *post blossom* application, Mavrik is not approved. Cliff was simply asking if anyone can confirm his reason for thinking that is so. Your posting simply continues in your campaign against New Zealand beekeepers and does not contribute in a meaningful way to the topic of discussion. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:40:26 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: Mavrik yes folks, we're back to the races! we're at the starting gate for the flame wars, and they're off!!! c'mon kids, let's stop the "i know you are, but what am i?" john --------------------------- In a message dated 96-10-03 14:09:24 EDT, Walter Patton writes: << Interesting this un approved use of chemicals by the very rightous kiwi bee keepers. In the USA the use of chemicals that are not labeled and approved for a particular uses is illegal and punisable. What other fast and loose ways are practiced down under. Eat American. >> What is it with you Walter? Why do you have to keep flogging New Zealand? I do not feel that Bee-L is a forum for attacking others with your accusation about New Zealanders "Fast and Loose Ways" comment. Al Needham Alwine@aol.com Hobbyist Scituate,MA 02066 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:36:31 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: 4-H Youth Beekeeping Project How to get to the 4H beekeeping books at UC-Davis. I got to the UC-Davis 4H books by going through the Beekeeping Home Page, then the link to UC-Davis, and so on through more links. I downloaded the executables, and found they expanded into good Wordperfect 5.1 files. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:57:12 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: fall requeening >I found that some of the hives had killed their new > queen and are queenless. I doubt that I would have had any problem > earlier, but the bees are in intense robbing mode. There is the answer. When robbing is on, bees get very choosey about their near neighbours. > I had killed the queens and left the hives queenless for a day. A queenless period doesn't help when replacing a laying queen on comb with a laying queen on comb. In fact, it may have contributed to the problem. If queens are switched without disturbance during a flow, there is seldom a rejection, but to dequeen, and allow the bees to become queenless , then requeen -- especially during a robbing period is asking for trouble. > Has anyone tried spraying the bees with light syrup? During intense robbing? Not a good idea. The best plan is to choose a time when the bees are calm for requeening. At such times, hives entrances should be reduced -- if possible, and nothing dione that might give any hive an advantage over another. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 20:06:09 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: New Beginnings In response to this interesting post... > I don't trust my "hefting" of hives > to determine how much they weigh going into winter. > With my scale, I have a reference to determine if help > is needed and enough time before serious winter to > make necessary adjustments. By testing against a scale, I've found that a person can tell -- by hefting -- within 2 kg one way or the other, after some experience, but without a scale for reference, it is just a matter of chance whether the hives are heavy enough or not. > I have found that if a hive consisting of two deep boxes > weight 100 pounds I'm not sure where you are, but up here in the Great White North, 50 kg (110 pounds) is about the minimum for certain survival. Hives weighing as little as 42 kg sometimes make it, but the odds are against them. > I never leave extra supers on a hive. To me that is a > waste and complicates manipulations in the spring. Up here, the bees would go up into them and starve. It is essential to take them off early, and restrict the hive to the brood boxes. Good points -- and timely too! Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 22:58:48 -0400 Reply-To: visel7@FreeMark.COM Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Bees in Cyberspace... Dear BEE-Listners, Attached is a listing I sent to Ron Miksha, who's article on beekeeping on the internet was published in the October issue of Bee Culture magazine. His article lamented that most of the sites he could find were outside the US. I checked my bookmark file, and found a few. Perhaps they may be of use to some of you. Perhaps also you have found other interesting sites. Forward them to Ron at Beekeeping@aol.com for review, and publish them here for all to see and use! T'anx! -------------Begin Forwarded Message--------------- > > You asked for it! Here is a list of my beekeeping >bookmarks, most of them in the US, for your perusal and >comments in the next issue of BC. Thanks so much for the >article! I hope it is first of many. We have a "Bees in >cyberspace" program at our bee club, and have found bunches >of sources: > > If you haven't already, subscribe to BEE-List. BEE-L >provides a format for discussion of bee research and >biology. Subjects include sociobiology, behavior, ecology, >genetics, taxonomy, physiology, pollination, and many >others, including a forum for "newbee" questions. The >contact person for the list is Mary Jo Orzech >(mjo@brock1p.bitnet). To subscribe, send an e-mail message >to LISTSERV@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU with body text consisting of >subscribe Jane Doe where Jane Doe is your real name. You >will receive further instructions from the listserver. >THIS IS A MUST HAVE!!! LOTS OF INPUT AND ARCHIVES! Could >write a book just editing the inputs. > >http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa.htm Preliminary Results >of Research Varroa Mite Control, 24 June, 1996. HOT NEWS! > >http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Home/BBP.html BARRY'S BEE PAGE! >Hive plans, etc. > >http://www1.shore.net/~spectrum/apitherapy.html BEE VENOM >THERAPY, by Glenn Rothfeld M.D. > >http://www.avana.net/pages/personal/digital/digital.htm >Rick's Beekeeping Home Page > >http://ag.arizona.edu/AES/mac/ahb/ahbhome.html Africanized >Honey Bees on the Move, Lesson Plans > >http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/besuply.html >BEEKEEPING SUPPLIERS > >http://users.aol.com/pollinator/varroa.htm Varroa Mites, A >New Parasite of the Honeybee, Photos of Varroa Mites and >their Damage > >http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Practical >Pollination Tips and Info, The Home Page of Dave & Janice >Green, The Pollination Scene > >http://users.aol.com/pollinator/varroa2.htm More pictures, >showing PMS Brood and normal Brood > >http://www.mv.com/ipusers/zippy/bee.html The Chris-o-rama >Bee Page... > >http://www.suebee.com/ Sue Bee Honey Web Site! Give your >honey a squeeze postcard, games, etc. > >http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/others.htm Nicks List of >other Bee Sites > >ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/beekeeping-faq >beekeeping-faqs (See >http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jlks/bee.html for details.) > >sci.agriculture.beekeeping Beekeeping newsgroup > >http://www.ent.iastate.edu/List/Beekeeping.html Great List >of Bee resources > >http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/ Bees and Pollination: >USDA-ARS Carl Hayden Bee Research Center GEARS GREAT SITE!! > >gopher://gnv.ifas.ufl.edu:70/11gopher_root3%3A%5Bdatabase.ap >i%5D APIS - Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter > >http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu/cbd/PCAM/readme_PCAM.html Database >of Mexican Bees,with Floral Records;by Douglas Yanega, >Illinois Natural History Survey. > >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Beekeeping/ >Beekeeper's Home Pages. > >http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees/ Bee Alert! Environmental >Hazard Detection and Warning. Research site, with a kid's >corner. > >gopher://sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu:70/11/bioag/bee-info >Ohio State Bee-Info Directory Gopher (Ohio, USA) - Gopher >menu of beekeeping related information. > >http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/agriculture/entomology/b >eekeeping/National_Honey_Board/honref.txt The National >Honey Board Database - Large > > Had enough? ;-) > > 'Nuf for now... Keep up the good work! > ----------------End Forwarded Message---------------- Gerry and the other Visels at: VISEL7@FREEMARK.COM JEANA@FREEMARK.COM 82JOHNVISEL@FREEMARK.CO ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 22:48:27 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Henry Subject: Honey Show I plan to enter two jars of honey in the Manitoba National Honey Show on Oct 25-26. I'll be in the beginner Open Basic category. Can anyone offer me some tips on how to clarify the honey for show competition? My honey is stored in plastic buckets and has not been heated or treated in any way other than being warmed up enough to extract. It is semi-crystalized and tastes delicious. Its the cosmetic appearance required to suit the judges that concerns me. All suggestions welcomed. Thanks, Doug Henry. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 20:47:21 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Frame Grips Comments: To: Gerry Visel In-Reply-To: <199610040258.WAA16573@fmserver-f0.freemark.com> I've been keeping bees for 14 years and have never used frame grips. But for some reason I'm considering it. I think it's because I just finished A Book Of Bees by Sue Hubbell and she uses them. So who uses frame grips and who doesn't? What are the pros and cons? Ann ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 23:03:56 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Henry Subject: Feeding for Winter This is my second year as a beekeeper. I started with 2 hives and now have four. This spring I split one hive and then later the same hive swarmed and I captured it to make the fourth colony. I managed to harvest around 150 kg of honey. To date, since early September I have fed all hives exactly 90 kg of sugar mixed two to one with water. They seem satiated at this point. Only one hive is now consuming syrup at a good rate. Each hive is made up of two brood supers with hive top feeder. There is no canola in my area this year so natural honey stored by the bees should not crystalize. Does the fact that the bees have stopped feeding vigourously mean they have run out of storage space for honey and are therefore topped up for winter? Thanks, Doug Henry ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:50:16 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Cold Weather Bee Tips I have a design for an ice free inner cover with a bee controlled vent if you are interested it really works ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 20:10:56 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Massive Spraying Begins Today: Make them obey the law! In reference to the insect spraying in your area. In addition to the type and method of spraying in your area it may be a bad idea to eliminate mosquitos.Sounds funny I know but consider:when the food that the birds eat is gone then the birds are gone which means the rate at which the mosquitos regenerate is astronomical with no birds to eat them . We used to spray around aour place here in Alaska (famous for mosquitos) but in a year or two the mosquits blown back in on the wind along with reproduction gave us a mosquto population that was unbearable. We gave up. Guess what? in a few years the swallows came in and feasted! Slowly a balance uas establised which was livable. Spray the sprayers and send them home . Encourage swallows with little nesting sites soon the problem will be better. Yes they eat bees or at least they eat mine.I simply put a mesh of any sort to keep the birds from the immediate front of the hives and it is no problem the birds fly accros the front of the hive in the evening so anything along the side works ok. Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 20:17:33 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Mavrik Of course dont you know that the only ones in the world that knows anything at all is americans so that means that if anything comes from somewhere else it is automatically discounted. We Americans often forget that a huge amount of original work is from other countrys,and that our talent is in using there discoverys. Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 23:15:37 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Guy McDonald Subject: What does everyone do for labels? Hi All, I may have missed conversation on labels, but would like to know where everyone gets their labels? I have extra honey to sell this year and will need labels. What should I look out for when ordering? 5 years ago I bought a jar of honey....put the jar thru the dishwasher many times and label still looks pretty good. I don't think I will be needing that expensive a label, but was still amazed. A printing company may be what I am leaning towards. I would be able to customize them with own design along with name and address. Do I need full name and address or just name and town? I wonder if honey labels come on 8x11 sheets....I could feed it thru my printer. I have only seen them on rolls. This is a great list and I welcome all comments and experiences. Guy. Gardner, MA. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 01:38:02 -0400 Reply-To: kchristensen@ccinet.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: package-room@toonogram.com Subject: Cartoon Hi Everyone, Toonogram is a website dedicated to sending cartoon postcards to friends in cyberspace - some are funny! :-) Apparently, Kevin Christensen (kchristensen@ccinet.ab.ca) sent you a Toonogram. In order to pick-up your cartoon, point your web browser to: http://www.toonogram.com/ And enter the Toonogram number given below to receive your cartoon, Toonogram number 4-4407482beel Best regards Toonogram Package Room Staff Your Cartoon will be available for 10 days starting from the date of this E-mail - the cartoons are recycled after 10 days! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 22:37:37 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Frame Grips Ann Dougherty wrote: > > I've been keeping bees for 14 years and have never used frame grips. But > for some reason I'm considering it. I think it's because I just finished A > Book Of Bees by Sue Hubbell and she uses them. So who uses frame grips and > who doesn't? What are the pros and cons? > > Ann I met a man once who used frame grips and did not create havoc amongst his bees. With 14 years of experience you can probably do all right. I think it is a very serious mistake for a beginner to use them. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:36:33 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Philip Hinton Subject: Mavrik and Wal;ter (Wal;ter patton) >> Interesting this un approved use of chemicals by the very rightous >> kiwi bee keepers. In the USA the use of chemicals that are not labeled >> and approved for a particular uses is illegal and punisable. What >> other fast and loose ways are practiced down under. Eat American. (Nick Wallingford) >Oh, come on, Walter. Read the post! It said absolutely *nothing* >about beekeepers using Mavrik. ... Yeah. Perhaps, Wal;ter, you need to re-read the appropriate paragraph: : What's interesting to me in all of this, however, is that Mavrik has so far : not been registered for use on either of these crops as a post-blossom ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ : (developing fruit) spray. I have been told by someone here in New : Zealand the reason is that no acceptable residual levels have been ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ : established on fruits and vegetables. I presume this is only because the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ : chemical hasn't gone through the long and involved registration process. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ Nothing about _any_ actual use of Mavrik as a post-blossom spray. We Kiwis are very concerned about the state not only of our honey industry but also our fruit and veges. Our overseas marketing successes were not obtained by allowing shoddy production practices. The "use of chemicals that are not labeled and approved for a particular uses (sic) is illegal and punisable (sic)" in New Zealand also. If by " very rightous (sic)" you mean we usually abhor "fast and loose ways" -- guilty as charged. But isn't that exactly what you're doing? If you have _solid _ evidence of "other fast and loose ways ... practiced down under" then tell it to the appropriate authorities, not a newsgroup which is doing an excellent job of disseminating knowledge to ALL apiarists (with access to a modem). I might remind you, with no slur on the rest of our USA beekeeping brethren, that our really big apiary problem in New Zealand is "_American_ foulbrood". Incidentally, a New Zealander is a Kiwi: our _bird_ is a kiwi. There are no kiwi beekeepers, "rightous" or not. Now shaddup. Philip Hinton. Palmerston North, New Zealand. (Opinions given not necessarily those of Massey University) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 03:16:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Blohm Subject: WOOD GUARD I am looking for a product called "Wood Guard". It is a wood perservative that is approved for use on bee hives. The A.I.Root Co. used to stock it in there catalog but they no longer are selling bee supplies, they now have expanded there beeswax candle business. If anyone knows where I can get it or if you happen to have a can of it I would appreciate the name and address of the manufacturer. Then I could contact them for a distributer in my area. My guess is that it's made in Ohio, that's where Root is. Thanks, and Bee Well. Rich Blohm, Long Island ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:36:14 GMT+200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tony Vissian Subject: Brood frames Hello all, I would appriciate advice on the subject of replacing brood frames. Should they be replaced and if so how many ,how often and at what time of the year. Thank you Tony Vissian ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:45:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Labels REGARDING RE>Labels Guy MacDonald wrote: < I may have missed conversation on labels, but would like to know where everyone gets their labels? I have extra honey to sell this year and will need labels. What should I look out for when ordering? 5 years ago I bought a jar of honey....put the jar thru the dishwasher many times and label still looks pretty good. I don't think I will be needing that expensive a label, but was still amazed. A printing company may be what I am leaning towards. I would be able to customize them with own design along with name and address. Do I need full name and address or just name and town? I wonder if honey labels come on 8x11 sheets....I could feed it thru my printer. I have only seen them on rolls.> I have had good experience using labels from RM Farms, Dearborn Heights, MI. (313-722-7727). However, their labels are all on rolls, as far as I know. They have a good selection on hand - they print their own work. I don't know if they do custom labels or not. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 07:51:31 +0000 Reply-To: tcote@helix.nih.gov Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Timothy R Cote Subject: Re: Mavrik Er, um, could I introject a concern into this transcontinental egg fight? The most important threat, that of unauthorized application in beehives, is already a reality in the US of A. I've been calling around looking for about 50 hives to buy this fall, and in that search I found a beekeeper in Mississippi who, when I asked him about the state of mite-treatment in the hives I was considering buying, told of his use of Maverick. When he said it was based on fuvalinate, I thought maybe there's a new commercial alternative to apistan(!?). He told me excitedly of how powerful the stuff is in killing Varrolla when doloped into a hive. And so, dear readers, this practice occurs on our soil as we speak. Guess maybe I shouldn't buy from him (even though they're double deep 10-frames, 125# ave, $60 each). Hmmmm. Tim Cote MD MPH ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:59:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Frame Grips REGARDING RE>Frame Grips Ann Dougherty wrote: Well, I have a pair of frame grips, and occasionally have tried using them in the past. I think they're the clumsiest piece of equipment invented for beehive manipulation. Save your money and aggravation - just use the hive tool. It's perfect for frame handling. Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:06:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Mavrick REGARDING RE>Mavrick Tim Cote wrote: I, personally, wouldn't touch the equipment, no matter what the price. The guy is a menace to the honey business - he should be blacklisted! (Sorry - I usually don't get this worked up.) Ted Fischer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 07:31:45 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Labels > < I may have missed conversation on labels, but would like to know > where everyone gets their labels? > What should I look out for when ordering? I believe that Root used to offer labels and maybe Dadant. I recall having had them send me samples in the past; there were about 20 designs from which to choose. You can get self adhesive labels, or paper labels that require glue. For very small quantities, the kind that have nice multi-coloured pictures and generic text are suitable, since they have a panel forrubber stamping you name and address.Try reading through the bee magazines for ads. There used to be a number. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:36:57 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: brood in upper deep only. I have a hive that has the brood in the upper deep only. I assume the bees filled the bottom with honey they robbed from a partially filled super I left for them to clear, thereby forcing the queen up. Should I rotate the deeps or just the frames with brood or leave them alone? We had a killing frost last night so there won't be much left but some aster. --------------------- One management tactic I have heard about to force the brood area into the lower deep requires installing a queen excluder between the two deeps. This restricts the queen to only one deep. Later upon observing eggs and young larvae in the upper deep it is moved to the bottom. Is this a worthwhile practice? When should it be done. I know it is to late now. Well I and my bees have survived the easy part of the year. I'm looking forward to my first fall and winter of beekeeping. Lastly, I want to thank everyone who shares their experiences, experience, knowledge and enthusiasm of beekeeping with this list. I know I am a better beekeeper due in large part to this list. Thanks again. Jim Moore moore@aiag.enet.dec.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:54:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kelley Rosenlund Subject: Re: Frame Grips >I've been keeping bees for 14 years and have never used frame grips. But >for some reason I'm considering it. I think it's because I just finished A >Book Of Bees by Sue Hubbell and she uses them. So who uses frame grips and >who doesn't? What are the pros and cons? I was given a set of grips and found them to be helpful in removing those tight frames. The problem: it is one more thing to carry/lose. I have found that using a hive tool with the frame hook on the end is a good compromise. God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A., Phone:352-378-7510 200 hives, 1 year in beekeeping. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 07:54:51 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: brood in upper deep only. > I have a hive that has the brood in the > upper deep only. I assume the bees filled the > bottom with honey they robbed from a partially > filled super I left for them to clear, thereby > forcing the queen up. > > Should I rotate the deeps or just the > frames with brood or leave them alone? We had a > killing frost last night so there won't be much > left but some aster. If the bees are in the top, the likely reason is that it is (at least partially) empty. If it is empty, then unless you have been mucking about exchanging boxes or frames at this late date, my bet is that thew bottom one is pretty empty too. The solution is to heft the hive, discover it is light and feed at least 2 gallons -- probably more-- of thick syrup. You should be aiming at about 100 pounds minimum. More is better. (I try to keep my doubles close to this weight year round). Inserting combs and reversing at this late date will likely increse chances of loss. > One management tactic I have heard about > to force the brood area into the lower deep > requires installing a queen excluder between the > two deeps. This restricts the queen to only one > deep. Later upon observing eggs and young larvae > in the upper deep it is moved to the bottom. Is > this a worthwhile practice? When should it be > done. I know it is to late now. Very dangerous practice if cold weather is in the offing -- see pollinater's recent post. Avoid invasive manipulations this late in the season. > Well I and my bees have survived the easy > part of the year. I'm looking forward to my first > fall and winter of beekeeping. Good luck and don't spare the feed. > Lastly, I want to thank everyone who > shared their experiences, experience, knowledge > and enthusiasm of beekeeping with this list. I > know I am a better beekeeper due in large part to > this list. me too. I must say that in reading the posts and thinking about things to write here myself, I have learned a lot and imprioved my beekeeping immensely. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:56:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Re: What does everyone do for labels? I print my own on an ink jet or laser printer using Avery labels. I use Microsoft Word to make the labels because the labels are part of the label and envelope function and spacing is already in the program. I have used a color laser printer and color ink-jet and got great results with both. My labels cost about US $45 per 1000 and only an extra US $5.00 for ink at the most, Total cost is about 5cents per label and I can adjust the label to express the type of honey (i.e. Cotton Bloom, Spring/Fall Wild flower, Black Berry Blossom, etc). This gives me the ability to be creative with my labels. I will admit that the labels do not put up with the dishwasher very well and do not stick to plastic but are great for my uses. Richard Barnes rbarnes@halnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:06:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Re: Frame Grips I was raised with frame grips and if used correctly are much easier to do than using a hive tool and your hands. Frame grips are like having an extra hand. Frame grips free up you hand to be able to to two things at once while not having to set the frame on the ground or a hive lid. Frame grips make it quicker for me to look at my hives. I use the hive tool to loosen the frames. With a frame grip in each hand I can go through a hive and look at each frame and be out of the hive in less than two minutes and not make the bees mad. Richard Barnes rbarnes@halnet.com > REGARDING RE>Frame Grips > >Ann Dougherty wrote: >for some reason I'm considering it. I think it's because I just finished A >Book Of Bees by Sue Hubbell and she uses them. So who uses frame grips and >who doesn't? What are the pros and cons?> > >Well, I have a pair of frame grips, and occasionally have tried using them in >the past. I think they're the clumsiest piece of equipment invented for >beehive manipulation. Save your money and aggravation - just use the hive >tool. It's perfect for frame handling. > >Ted Fischer > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:19:06 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Hemmens Subject: Re: Mavrick Ted Fisher wrote - Tim Cote wrote: I've been calling around looking for about 50 hives to buy this fall, and in that search I found a beekeeper in Mississippi who, when I asked him about the state of mite-treatment in the hives I was considering buying, told of his use of Maverick. When he said it was based on fuvalinate, I thought maybe there's a new commercial alternative to apistan(!?). He told me excitedly of how powerful the stuff is in killing Varrolla when doloped into a hive. And so, dear readers, this practice occurs on our soil as we speak. Guess maybe I shouldn't buy from him (even though they're double deep 10-frames, 125# ave, $60 each). Hmmmm.> > I, personally, wouldn't touch the equipment, no matter what the price. The > guy is a menace to the honey business - he should be blacklisted! (Sorry - I > usually don't get this worked up.) > Ted Fischer Ted is right. As far as I know Fluvalinate has been used in France where it is available as an Agricultural Spray called 'Klartan' and has been applied to bees in the form of strips of cloth/wood/cardboard, in this form it is much cheaper than buying Apistan strips. Although I am not familiar with Maverik, I do know that it has been used in Israel and is based upon the same chemical. Many beekeepers in Europe are blaming the improper use of Klartan for the development of resistance in Varroa to Fluvalinate. Resistance to Apistan (Fluvalinate) is becoming well documented. Also what is the honey consumer to make of all this? I wouldn't want to eat honey from a colony that someone had improperly treated with an unspecified amount of agricultural spray. We only have to look to Europe to see what happens when the public loses confidence with a food product (beef). The producers are crying their eyes out and going bankrupt. Best wishes Joe Hemmens Joe Hemmens joe.hemmens@ndirect.co.uk Park House, Golberdon, Cornwall UK 01579382652 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:42:51 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Multiple topics... Replacing Brood Frames: A practice recommended by Brother Adam, seconded by Roger Morse. Ballpark suggestion is every 5 years. Practical suggestion is to replace a few per hive as they become especially old and blackened, cycling through the frames in your hives as time and budget allows. This was admittedly (by both of the names dropped above) a practice more achievable by the hobbiest than the commercial beekeeper. Rational was that as the brood combs age, pathogens MAY collect and culling the aged frames removes these pathogens from your hive. In a "natural setting", the bees would simply abandon the old combs as they either move up in their nesting cavity or swarm to another location. Wax moths would then clean up the old combs. Hence, in a "natural setting", the wax moths serve a beneficial role! Perhaps there's a grand scheme to nature? Labels: I'll second the recommendation for RM Farms in Dearborn, MI. RM advertises regularly in _ABJ_ and _Bee-Culture_, no bull! They have a wide variety of stock from which to choose on which RM will do your "customized" printing. For $1.50 US (if I recall correctly), RM will send you samples of their work. Only complaint is that they can get quite backed up at busy times of the year (like NOW!). As always, order early to get what you want when you want it. Mavrik: I'm amazed that someone so respect in BEE-L would put his name to a query about using Mavrik! Yes, it's out there, yes, it's cheap, no, it's not approved, yes, it can lead to disastrous results: fluvalinate resistance, contaminated honey, bad public publicity for honey as a pure product, decreased honey sales. Avoid it's use, boycott beekeepers who admit to using it, whether it's used hives (no matter how good the price seems) or honey from said outfit. And as far as Bed and Breakfast owners beating up on Kiwi posters, take that noise to the streets and keep it off BEE_L!!!! Frame Grips: Waste of money, fingers are the best tool goin'. I bought a frame grip in my first year, used them once or twice, threw 'em away. The gripper was too fat to fit between frames (in a 10 frame Langstroth hive), I had to remove the first frame by hand to be able to use the gripper on the remaining 9 frames, and had to pry the frame away from its neighbor to be able to use the gripper. A lot of picking up the hive tool, put it down, pick up the gripper, put it down, pick up the hive tool, .... Use the hive tool, skip the grip. Aaron Morris - Killing freeze last night. '96 season is over. Here's to '97! Happy New Year! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:45:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: What does everyone do for labels? In a message dated 96-10-04 00:39:40 EDT, guy.mcdonald@juno.com (Guy McDonald) writes: << I may have missed conversation on labels, but would like to know where everyone gets their labels? I have extra honey to sell this year and will need labels. What should I look out for when ordering? 5 years ago I bought a jar of honey....put the jar thru the dishwasher many times and label still looks pretty good. I don't think I will be needing that expensive a label, but was still amazed. A printing company may be what I am leaning towards. I would be able to customize them with own design along with name and address. Do I need full name and address or just name and town? I wonder if honey labels come on 8x11 sheets....I could feed it thru my printer. I have only seen them on rolls. >> Our labels are done on our computor printer on "Crack 'n Peel" paper, that has a pressure sensitive adhesive, covered with a waxy paper that peels off. It's slow, and probably expensive, when compared to printing, at least for larger orders. But it looks nice, and we are always tinkering with the label anyway, so I don't want to do large batches and throw away some. The paper comes 8 1/2 x 11 inches, and is easily cut with a paper cutter. You can get info from the manufacturer, Fasson Company at 1-800-443-9380. It's carried by paper wholesalers in larger cities, and it comes in many colors. They won't run through a dishwasher, though. I use Microsoft Publisher for our program, but find it somewhat "buggy," and am wondering about trying another program. I can't complain too much, as it has done an enormous amount of work for me. I just get frustrated when it loses a file, crashes, or runs real slow, despite 20 megs of memory. Maybe I've got a virus, but scans don't show any. I'd be glad to design a label for you, if you'd like. (Contributions accepted. -Don't everyone flood me with orders now!) Send along a copy of whatever graphics you want to use (no copyrighted stuff - best bet - get a local art student to make a line drawing - it might launch him/her into a career, too), as well as the text, which must include name, address, size in English/Metric weights, country of production, etc. You can take the final copy to your printer, or scan it and run off on your computor system, etc. But it's not hard, if you want to do it yourself. Practice...... Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:45:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Mavrik In a message dated 96-10-03 14:08:57 EDT, hihoney@ilhawaii.net (Walter patton) writes: << Interesting this un approved use of chemicals by the very rightous kiwi bee keepers. In the USA the use of chemicals that are not labeled and approved for a particular uses is illegal and punisable. What other fast and loose ways are practiced down under. Eat American. Walter >Way back in the dark ages (probably at least six months ago!) I sent a >post to the group re. Mavrik, so it's interesting to see the product >mentioned again. > >Mavrik is used to control a number of pests besides ticks and fleas on >animals (and varroa and tropilaelaps in bees). According to the trade >brochure I have, it is also recommended for a variety of seed crops, >fruits, vegetables and even cut flowers. Target pests include grey >cabbage aphid, clover case bearer moth, blue green aphid, thrips, >whitefly, two spotted mite, European red mite, black cherry aphid, >leafcurl plum aphid, green peach aphid, and leafroller. > >Here in New Zealand, Mavrik is used extensively as a pre-blossom >insecticide on kiwifruit. When the chemical was given approval for this >use, beekeepers here jumped for joy, because fluvalinate (the active >ingredient) is much more bee-friendly for leafroller control than other >chemicals such as azinphos-methyl. Because kiwifruit bloom is >staggered, we used to have growers spraying the crop just before >blossom in one orchard, and poisoning foraging bees from hives which >had been put into flowering blocks in adjacent orchards. Now we have >virutally no bee deaths caused by leafroller sprays in kiwifruit. > >Mavrik has now also been approved here in New Zealand for thrip >control on avocadoes during blooming, which has also significantly >reduced the number of bee kills on that crop. > >What's interesting to me in all of this, however, is that Mavrik has so far >not been registered for use on either of these crops as a post-blossom >(developing fruit) spray. I have been told by someone here in New >Zealand the reason is that no acceptable residual levels have been >established on fruits and vegetables. I presume this is only because the >chemical hasn't gone through the long and involved registration process. > >In closing, I thought I'd ask the same question I asked many moons ago to >the group (and got no replies) -- does anyone know anything more about >residue levels of fluvalinate on fruits and vegetables? Has a limit been >set for the chemical on food stuffs anywhere overseas? >> A word to the wise for Walter, and others (like myself) who campaign for changes: As long as you stick to the facts, you will have credibility. If you play "fast and loose" with the facts, you lose your audience. Walter, reread the very quote you posted. It doesn't refer in any way to unapproved uses. Pesticide labels are developed with a lot of testing and careful consideration. Conditions vary in different areas, so the labels could be somewhat different. I feel quite confident that New Zealand is very consciencious about the label directions. Now enforcement, I don't know. If it is like here, with bee protection directions on insecticides, well........... (Enforcement varies from state to state, and seems quite dependent on the number of pollination "consumers"). Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:56:31 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Re: Introducing a Queen In-Reply-To: <961002180013_102336.711_HHQ32-2@CompuServe.COM> In message <961002180013_102336.711_HHQ32-2@CompuServe.COM>, Ted Wout <102336.711@CompuServe.COM> writes > >Now I know that if you ask ten beekeepers a question you'll get eleven >different answers. Isn't there some common wisdom? Or could it be that certain >situations require different strategies? > >I may be starting some controversy but I'm wondering why I've heard >conflicting advice on queen introduction. It seems to me this is because there are not enough beekeepers asking *why ?* Too many doing what they are told without understanding what they are told. (no-one on the list of course !) Of course we don't understand everything and there are different strategies but I find you have to test and question what you are told. Why are there attendants ? What will the bees think if six strange bees appear in the brood nest ? Which way up are queen cells ? Do mated queens come out of cells ? Where are supercedure cells found ? Under what conditions does a Queen walk in ? Are the bees waiting for a virgin or a mated queen ? There are also some practical realities. How much was your Buckfast and are you willing to risk $$ ? Got any more queens ? What stage of the season are you at ? Is there a flow on ? I just love beekeeping. Oh yeh. Tip for removing attendants. Open the cage (in the car or shed) near a closed window and let them fly against it towards the light. Pick her up and put her back. Then open the window. Job done. -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. (and ) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:18:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: What does everyone do for labels? At 09:59 AM 10/4/96 -0500, you wrote: > >I print my own on an ink jet or laser printer using Avery labels. I do a similar type of thing. I used CardShop Plus to design a rudimentary label. Instead of buying customized, printed labels, I purchase light cardstock, then print out multiple labels per page with my color ink jet printer. I print some cutsey little words on the opposite side about my bees and the honey then use a paper cutter to slice n dice into individual labels. I fold in half, punch a hole for elastic string, then tie the label to the jars. 'One size fits all'. This is the "artsy, crafty, new age" thing that's all the rage nowadays, plus I give credit on returned glassware, so I can cut down on bottle costs. Without the pasted labels, more honey is visible and the product looks more attractive. As my retail crop grows (he says, hopefully) I plan to investigate fancy glassware similar to what is used up here for maple syrup. These containers are a selling point unto themselves and the tourists snap them up. With exorbident pricing too! CardShop Plus is somewhat limited in what it offers for graphics, so I would like to find a PC graphics app that would offer zillions of canned images (idea being there'd be some bee related images) but not cost a million (what a dreamer!). I also dream of a better printer. My ExecJet II is OK, but occassionally gives me reason to pitch it from the 2nd floor window. Such costly dreams will have to wait until I have a job. Nuff said. Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:38:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robin Wells Subject: Re: Mavrik > Now enforcement, I don't know. If it is like here, with bee protection > directions on insecticides, well........... (Enforcement varies from state > to state, and seems quite dependent on the number of pollination > "consumers"). As for enforcement, it is not only with those spraying pesticide; nor with those who use agricultural spray (such as Mavrik) improperly. There are also certain numbers of beekeepers who feel quite comfortable leaving their Apistan on all winter long. I have personally talked to beekeepers, some older than I, who do just that. Furthermore they give examples of others who do the same and tell me there is nothing wrong with it. When I try to convince them of potential resistance buildup, or following direction as per specified on the label, etc.. they just ignore me. Fortunately there are few of us like that, however there are also few who likely break any rules. Enforcement in North America even among ourselves leaves something to be desired. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:46:55 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Introducing a Queen > Oh yeh. Tip for removing attendants. Open the cage (in the car or > shed) near a closed window and let them fly against it towards the > light. Pick her up and put her back. Then open the window. Job done. I've lost enough behind the seat in my pickup (and other impenatrable (sic?) places) that I've decided that a clear plastic bag into which both the cage and my hands can go is a better answer. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:00:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Yellow Jackets Jim Shoemaker wrote on a Yellow Jacket Trap. >I was concerned that some of my weaker colonies might be attacked so I >made a few traps. I used buckets with tight lids or jars or whatever and >by T & E (trial and error) discovered that a 16D sinker nail would allow >the YW's to enter buy not the bees. I baited with some old honey that I >diluted. The bees somehow get too much of the mixture on them and very few >make it out of the trap. I assume that almost anyting sweet would work. >I assume a wetting agent mixed with the dilute honey would made it >even better. I remember my grandmother making the same thing, but the bait was jam (in American- jelly) mixed with water. It attracted the wasps but was ignored by the honey bees, the wasps couldn't find their way out and drowned!! **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:01:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: What does everyone do for labels? : Guy McDonald wrote. > I may have missed conversation on labels, but would like to know > where everyone gets their labels? I have extra honey to sell this >year and will need labels. What should I look out for when ordering? > 5 years ago I bought a jar of honey....put the jar thru the dishwasher >many times and label still looks pretty good. I don't think I will be >needing that expensive a label, but was still amazed. >I wonder if honey labels come on 8x11 sheets....I could feed it thru my >printer. I have only seen them on rolls. >This is a great list and I welcome all comments and experiences. We are agents for E.H.Thorne UK and have an extensive range of pre-printed and custom labels in small quantities. E-mail me privately for more info **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:20:32 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: Frame Grips They are inexpensive Who knows try them you may like them. If you do keep them if you dont like them dont use them. But one thing is for sure you will get opinions both for and against on this B list. I would be interested in what you think Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:07:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: Mavrik In a message dated 96-10-04 15:33:01 EDT, rawells@jenera.com (Robin Wells) writes: << As for enforcement, it is not only with those spraying pesticide; nor with those who use agricultural spray (such as Mavrik) improperly. There are also certain numbers of beekeepers who feel quite comfortable leaving their Apistan on all winter long. >> .......Or all year long...... <> Amen. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:32:50 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: RE : watch the x-files on fox tonight Fellow Bee-Lers Okay, I guess I can leak this now. This summer some folks in our lab did some bee wrangling for the season premier of the Fox Network's X-Files. The episode airs tonight. Lots of cool bee shots and a crazy bee cave. Don't miss it. Cheers Adony ######################################## *** Adony Melathopoulos **************** ***** Center for Pest Management ******* ******** Simon Fraser University ******* *********** Burnaby, British Coumbia *** ************** CANADA ****************** ######################################## 'If men had wings and bore black feathers, few of them would be clever enough to be crows' - Rev. Henry Ward Beecher, mid-1800's e-mail : melathop@sfu.ca tel : (604) 291-4163 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:39:27 GMT Reply-To: phoenix@aug.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stanton A Hershman Organization: Phoenix Subject: Re: What does everyone do for labels? In-Reply-To: <199610042007.QAA05832@segwun.muskoka.net> On Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:01:10 -0400, you expounded on something about: >>This is a great list and I welcome all comments and experiences. > hello david- think one of my hives is in trouble. it is still considerably warm down = here in north florida. has been raining for 4 days, though. =20 the fall flow has finally started, now if the rain will just quit. i have 3 hives, 2 are booming. the third is the weakest and has been all year. i have inspected it every 2 weeks and the queen is laying a nice = tight pattern in the both brood boxes. however, i don't see much activity on = the front porch as compared to the 2 others. the total hive is light. the = others probably go 100 pounds or more. i would assume that finding a queen at = this late date is next to none??? do you think that it is too late to go in = and kill her and force them to raise another to get them through the winter. we had a dearth here through august and september and i fed this one hive daily for that time. they were consuming about 1 quart every 2 days. = but, you would never know that by looking at what they have stored. i saw somewhere that an exit count of between 30-90 bees per minute was an indication of a healthy hive. i sat last saturday and watched for awhile= and counted and i saw about 10-15 per minute. any foregone suggestions?? best regards stanton = =20 =20 phoenix@aug.com WEBPAGE: userpages.aug.com/phoenix =20 MADNESS TAKES ITS TOLL. PLEASE HAVE EXACT CHANGE.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 20:24:18 -0400 Reply-To: visel7@FreeMark.COM Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel ---------------Begin Forwarded Message--------------- From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Frame Grips Date: 10/03/96 21:47:21 ----------------------------------------------------- > >I've been keeping bees for 14 years and have never used >frame grips. But for some reason I'm considering it. I >think it's because I just finished A Book Of Bees by Sue >Hubbell and she uses them. So who uses frame grips and who >doesn't? What are the pros and cons? > > > Ann > > > ----------------End Forwarded Message---------------- Gerry and the other Visels at: VISEL7@FREEMARK.COM JEANA@FREEMARK.COM 82JOHNVISEL@FREEMARK.CO ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 00:13:07 GMT Reply-To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Organization: Westtown School Subject: Re: Frame Grips So who uses frame grips and who doesn't? What are the pros and cons? I found that if I were going to spend any time examining the frame, the hand that held the frame grip got too tired. So I would transfer the frame to two hands and hold it by the corners. Then I stopped using the frame grip at all. Tim Tim Sterrett Westtown, (Southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA tim_sterrett@westtown.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:53:49 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Cauthorn Subject: Re: Mavrik I found some info on the net about Fluvalinate. I was surprised to read that it is highly toxic to fish. After reading this I thought about all the hives that were flooded last year in our area. One more cause of declining fish populations. Here are two addresses for info on Fluvalinate: http://ace.orst.edu/cgi-bin/mfs/01/pips/fluvalin.p93 http://www.arsusda.gov/ppdb3/TAU-FLUVALINATE This info was collected from one of the sites: ECOLOGICAL EFFECTS Effects on Birds Fluvalinate is slightly toxic to birds. The acute oral LD50 for fluvalinate in bobwhite quail is > 2,510 mg/kg. The dietary LC50 for fluvalinate in mallard ducks and bobwhite quail is > 5,620 ppm (5). Effects on Aquatic Organisms Fluvalinate is highly toxic to fish (1). The 96-hour LC50 for fluvalinate in bluegill sunfish is 0.09 ug/l, and in rainbow trout is 2.9 ug/l. Its 48-hour LC50 in Daphnia magna, a small freshwater crustacean, is 74 ug/l, and in mysid shrimp is 2.9 ug/l (5). Pyrethroid insecticides are extremely toxic to fish with 96- hour LC50 values generally below 10 ug/l. Corresponding LD50 values in mammals and birds are in the range of several hundred to several thousand mg/kg. Fish sensitivity to the pyrethroids may be explained by their relatively slow metabolism and elimination of these compounds. The half-lives for elimination of several pyrethroids by trout are all greater than 48 hours, while elimination half-lives for birds and mammals range from 6 to 12 hours (8). Generally, the lethality of pyrethroids to fish increases with increasing octanol/water partition coefficients ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Cauthorn pbc@teleport.COM --- More heinous crimes are committed in the name of obedience than in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:46:10 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Caldeira Subject: Re: What does everyone do for labels? At 11:15 PM 10/3/96 EDT, Guy wrote: >Hi All, > I may have missed conversation on labels, but would like to know > where everyone gets their labels? Guy, Until recently, I had bought labels from R.M. Farms, and have always been satisfied with the quality. Labels in small quantities are expensive though. R.M. Farms sends a nice sample pack of labels for $1.50 U.S. They are at: R.M. Farms P.O. Box 684 Dearborn Heights, MI 48127-0684 Phone: (313) 722-7727, fax: (313) 729-7826 However, for the small beekeeper I think self-designed labels are much better. They can be designed on your computer, or even by hand. They look more "local" and that can be a real plus in sales or when gift-giving. I print labels from my computer, copy them off on a copy machine, and paste them using a glue stick. They look less "perfect" and look great on canning jars. In some locations, beekeepers get a premium for a local look to the product. Best wishes, John in Dallas ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 19:32:14 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Mavrik > Fluvalinate is slightly toxic to birds. The acute oral LD50 > for fluvalinate in bobwhite quail is > 2,510 mg/kg. If I got this right, it takes 2.510 kg *per kg of quail* to kill half the quail(s?). ( if 1mg=.001kg) Hmmmm... Do we weigh the quail before or after it eats?? (1.0 + 2.510 = 3.510 (= v. large (stuffed) quail)). I am assuming the dose is to be applied orally, not topically, as the latter would likely result in a smothered quail. Pyrethroids are toxic to all cold blooded critters, apparently -- but not very bothersome to the warm blooded. Ah Ha! Maybe fluvalinate killed the dinosaurs? Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:43:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Cecile T. Kohrs" Subject: Re: RE : watch the x-files on fox tonight In a message dated 96-10-04 19:37:31 EDT, you write: << some bee wrangling for the season premier of the Fox Network's X-Files. The episode airs tonight. Lots of cool bee shots and a crazy bee cave. Don't miss it. Cheers >> HEY!!! AWESOME JOB! My husband and I never miss X-files, and it was very cool to see all those bees in the bee cave. Was at a local (Near Washington DC) fall festival, and a few bees were flying around the barrels of freshly-pressed apple cider. I said.. "You need a fly swatter" and she said, "No. I don't eat meat, and I don't kill insects. Besides, they don't bite." I didn't stick around. Tons of beeswax items at the craft festival. Got some really cool Christmas tree ornaments. People were adding cinnamon scent to the wax, for a kind of Potpourri effect. I missed the regular beeswax smell, though. Didn't see much done with honey. And I've been experimenting with honey in my kitchen, and it's amazing the varience in the sweetness of honey. I expected taste difference, but is that normal? some honey is really sweeter than other honey? See ya. Cecile ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 15:49:07 +1100 Reply-To: nickw@wave.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Nat Beekeepers Assn of NZ Subject: 'Typical' beekeepers... Several years ago when I was helping with the production of the NZ Beekeeping Industry 'Profile' document that we use to promote and explain our industry, I helped Andrew Matheson, and then later Cliff Van Eaton, to write three stories about 'typical' beekeepers. We used 'composite' figures, bits and pieces about a number of beekeepers we knew, to tell three stories about what different beekeeping experiences could be like. We even managed a bit of inside humour, using names for these fictional people that related to beekeeping personalities present and past! The stories tell of a 'typical' commercial honey producer, a 'typical' pollination beekeeper, and a 'typical' hobbyist beekeeper. Especially for anyone new to beekeeping, the stories can be educational and interesting. The Profile document itself is available on the NZ Beekeeping Home Pages, but if any BEE-L reader would like to get a copy of the stories (about 17kb total) by email, you can send an email message to me (note: do not press the reply button, or else it goes to the list!) with these words in the Subject: line - SEND STORIES Be sure you put it in the Subject: line (not the message body) and be sure you spill it correctly, as otherwise my autoresponder will not work. Next time I log on (several times a day) it will be automatically sent to you. I hope you enjoy them as much as we enjoyed writing them, and then updating them several years ago! (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 21:13:26 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Caroline Stoddart of AGF 487-9353 Subject: Re: Mavrik In-Reply-To: <199610031836.GAA17818@Axil.wave.co.nz> Hi, I'd like to hear from more New Zealand beekeepers. How was the Rata honey and are yoy having many disease problems? Are the Wards at Gore still beekeeping? Caroline ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 21:24:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Caroline Stoddart of AGF 487-9353 Subject: Re: Frame Grips In-Reply-To: <3254B0B1.4C52@alaska.net> To be successful with frame grips you need a very strong co-ordinated wrist. caroline ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 07:30:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: Labels and Rubber Stamps I've made up labels for my jars by using Hijaak software though any drawing software would probably work as well. I ran an initial copy on a laser printer then made more sheets on a copier. I added a small strip of color with a waterproof yellow "magic marker". I make up flour paste by slowly adding a pint of water to 1/3 cup of flour, stirring to get a good mixture as I'm adding the water. When well mixed I cook over medium heat, stirring constantly to avoid scorching, for two minutes after boiling begins. I cool it, add about 5 drops of clove oil for a preservative. I use a paint brush to brush the paste onto a sheet of glass then put the label on the glass to pick up the paste. A wiping motion seems to work well. I use a damp sponge to help in pressing the label to the jar. Works well on glass, poorly on plastic. White glue (aliphatic resin??) seems to be ok on plastic though I've used plastic very little and don't have a good opinion here. Before I paste labels on jars, I use "rubber" stamps to stamp the weight and type of honey on the label. The stamps are really made of photopolymer so I put "rubber" in quotation marks. My brother has a rubber stamp business thus is able to supply me with what I need, even curved stamps for the brims of honeybear hats. If you need to have rubber stamps made for your business, contact me directly and I'll give you his fax number and post office box. For a beekeeper with a lot of labeling, preprinted labels which can be rapidly applied should be the best way to go. For me with my 25 top bar hives and my "gourmet" honey...this works for me. I hope that you have had a good year. Goldenrod seems to be peaking around here about now. Maybe the hives will lay in some good winter stores....I hope so. Cordially yours, Jim --------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | -------------------------------- | 258 Ridge Pine Drive Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Canton, GA 30114, USA north of Atlanta, Georgia USA | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 | --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 08:34:19 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: What does everyone do for labels? In-Reply-To: <961004124500_202009170@emout11.mail.aol.com> On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter wrote: > In a message dated 96-10-04 00:39:40 EDT, guy.mcdonald@juno.com (Guy > McDonald) writes: > > << I may have missed conversation on labels, but would like to know > where everyone gets their labels? I have extra honey to sell this > year and will need labels. What should I look out for when ordering? > 5 years ago I bought a jar of honey....put the jar thru the dishwasher > many times and label still looks pretty good. I don't think I will be > needing that expensive a label, but was still amazed. > > A printing company may be what I am leaning towards. I would be able > to customize them with own design along with name and address. Do I need > full name and address or just name and town? > > I wonder if honey labels come on 8x11 sheets....I could feed it thru my > printer. I have only seen them on rolls. >> > > > Our labels are done on our computor printer on "Crack 'n Peel" paper, > that has a pressure sensitive adhesive, covered with a waxy paper that peels > off. It's slow, and probably expensive, when compared to printing, at least > for larger orders. > > But it looks nice, and we are always tinkering with the label anyway, so > I don't want to do large batches and throw away some. The paper comes 8 1/2 > x 11 inches, and is easily cut with a paper cutter. You can get info from > the manufacturer, Fasson Company at 1-800-443-9380. It's carried by paper > wholesalers in larger cities, and it comes in many colors. Hi Dave and All, I use my computer also and have had fun trying different layouts and fonts.I use Easy Lables and clip Art. I found that if you keep it simple and explain where you get the honey, will work the best. The container and the lable have to work together. I market most of my honey in one pound hex jars with sand color paper.I cut two of the edges with friskers that make the edges irregular. I have changed my lables about 3 times.. I was using embossing powder in gold and it worked ok , but took a lot of extra time. You can use photographs and put them together and have a copy company do sheets up for you , for about $1 a sheet . Each sheet has about 10 lables.A friend of mine just finished his and they look very good.They are in color and have a farm and the hives and mountains , plus him and his Wife holding hands.It cost him $ 10 to get it scanned and blended a little plus a proof sheet. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 12:16:41 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Cold Weather Bee Tips > I have a design for an ice free inner cover with a bee controlled > vent if you are interested it really works > I'd be interested in knowing more about it. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 16:15:32 +22324924 Reply-To: adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: sci.agriculture.beekeeping faq Hello, I'm planning on updating the faq. Feel free to mail me text contributions, suggestions, gripes, advertisements, urls, etc. I plan on linking the new faq with a web page and will maintain a resource there for commercial beekeeping, although separate from the main faq. If you are interested in being included, or have updates from a year ago, please let me know Please put the word in the subject of your reply mail. Or just reply to this mail, as I've set the reply-to header. thanks, Adam -- _________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 18:15:38 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: Re: Chinese honey turning black in tea Comments: To: "Stephen T. Smith" Comments: cc: General questions In-Reply-To: <32559940.31D9@interramp.com> I am unaware of this situation and would like more information on exactly what is going on. If the tea is already brewed, then a light-colored honey would assume the color of the tea. I am forwarding your message to a couple of lists for possible response. Tom Sanford On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, Stephen T. Smith wrote: > Dear Dr. Stanford, > > I am looking for information regarding the cause of Chinese > honey turning black when added to hot tea. > > I would appreciate it if you could please pass along any > sources or information you have available to either my > e-mail or my fax number. > > Thank you very much > > > Stephen Smith > > e-mail sttsmith@aol.com > > Fax 206-780-5670 > Tel 206-780-1957 > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 19:21:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian R Tucker Subject: OILS Could someone please repost the use of Essential Oils for the use of mite controll. That is how much in sugar water or if used in grease patties how much in there. And what type of oil is best (Spearmint,Wintergreen ect..) Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 18:52:22 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Re: Frame Grips I haven't followed this discussion very closely, but what is the problem with frame grips. I use the grips purchased from Walter Kelly Co. and they are the greatest thing since sliced cheese. I have fat fingers and don't exercise much any more. Therefore my fat fingers are not as strong as they once were. I take my hive tool and cut out he glue, ease the grip down the side, and apply a slow even pull. The frame slides out with no massed bees and I don't get stung. Works great every time. At 09:24 PM 10/4/96 -0700, you wrote: > To be successful with frame grips you need a very strong > co-ordinated wrist. > caroline > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 19:59:38 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim&Elisa Sharpe/Moseley Subject: Re: Cold Weather Bee Tips Yes. Details, Please. Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 19:05:22 -0500 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: OILS Brian R Tucker wrote: > > Could someone please repost the use of Essential Oils for the use of mite > controll. That is how much in sugar water or if used in grease patties how > much in there. And what type of oil is best (Spearmint,Wintergreen ect..) > Thanks The info is at this site: http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa.htm -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 19:21:42 -0500 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Frame Grips Steven Albritton wrote: > > I haven't followed this discussion very closely, but what is the problem > with frame grips. I use the grips purchased from Walter Kelly Co. and they > are the greatest thing since sliced cheese. I have fat fingers and don't > exercise much any more. Therefore my fat fingers are not as strong as they > once were. I take my hive tool and cut out he glue, ease the grip down the > side, and apply a slow even pull. The frame slides out with no massed bees > and I don't get stung. Works great every time. > > At 09:24 PM 10/4/96 -0700, you wrote: > > To be successful with frame grips you need a very strong > > co-ordinated wrist. > > caroline > > > > My thoughts worth just a few cents - I too use frame grips (Kelly type) along with my hive tool. I just started this year with them and find it to be a nice help especially getting that first frame out. Often I'll use them on the first frame and then toss them aside while I work the rest by hand. If I'm in a hurry or want to do a fast check then I'll use the grips all the way through. A loaded frame can be hard to hold up and inspect with just the grips so I'll usually set the frame edge on the hive to inspect but normally they work well for me. I don't like to do anything the same way all the time so I try different things. Use them if you like them, leave 'em at home if you don't. Maybe some strong salad tongs would work too! -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 20:41:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Frame Grips Are frame grips a good idea? More than anything else, that's personal preference. I like them because they let me keep one had free to hold my hive tool for propolis scraping. Frame grips also let me push a frame into place if it is hung up on propolis. But that is just my personal technique, and I know beekeepers you couldn't give frame grips to. Try them and see what you think. The worst that can happen is that you won't like them, and you will be out $10. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 20:42:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Winter Prepartion Posts A plea to all those writing on the subject of winter preparations: Please include your geographic location in your posts. Probably no part of beekeeping is more location-specific that winter prepartion. What Allen Dick has to do in Alberta is drastic overkill in Maryland, and likewise my Maryland hives probably wouldn't make it through January in Alberta. Giving geographic locations will help readers decide if what you are doing makes sense for them. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 19:44:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: krengel lawrence e Subject: Re: Frame Grips In-Reply-To: I vote in favor of frame grips. It makes handling frames a lot easier and there isn't as musch propolis to get off the hands. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 21:17:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bobby R Fanning Subject: Re: What does everyone do for labels? Guy McDonald wrote: ---------- > I wonder if honey labels come on 8x11 sheets....I could feed it thru my > printer. I have only seen them on rolls. I print my labels using a $9.95 program that I got from "Office Depot" called "MyLabel 2.0.0". Office Depot does have the 8 1/2 x 11 sheets of "Avery" labels (not sure the number but they are 4 in. x 1 7/16 in.) but the cost is out of line relative to the same label in a 10,000 label, fanfold box (100 pc roll is also available) . I cut the "sheets" at each fanfold and feed them thru my HP 855C as one would a legal size envelope. Works great. The color ink is not tolerant to moisture so I spray the finished label with clear "Crylon". I imported clip art flowers from some other "Windows" type application and added them to the very limited choice that comes with the $9.95 package. Another trick that works for me is to use a different flower for each different size jar that uses the same size label. So far, this has kept me from errors such as putting a "1 Qt." label on a "1 Pt." jar. In my case, as a small beekeeper, it is my opinion that the non professional label seems to be beneficial to the limited market of individuals I sell to. Bob Fanning Huntsville, AL k4vb@hiwaay.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 22:07:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bobby R Fanning Subject: Re: WOOD GUARD Rich, If you get the answer, please post it on the list or send it to me at k4vb@hiwaay.net. Thanks, Bob ---------- > > I am looking for a product called "Wood Guard". It is a wood perservative > that is approved for use on bee hives. The A.I.Root Co. used to stock it in > there catalog but they no longer are selling bee supplies, they now have > expanded there beeswax candle business. If anyone knows where I can get it > or if you happen to have a can of it I would appreciate the name and address > of the manufacturer. Then I could contact them for a distributer in my area. > My guess is that it's made in Ohio, that's where Root is. Thanks, and Bee > Well. > > Rich Blohm, Long Island ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 21:40:13 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bobby R Fanning Subject: Re: labels Guy McDonald wrote: ---------- > I wonder if honey labels come on 8x11 sheets....I could feed it thru my > printer. I have only seen them on rolls. I print my labels using a $9.95 program that I got from "Office Depot" called "MyLabel 2.0.0". Office Depot does have the 8 1/2 x 11 sheets of "Avery" labels (not sure the number, they are 4 in. x 1 7/16 in.) but the cost is out of line relative to the same label in a 10,000 label, fanfold box (100 pc roll is also available). I cut the "sheets" at each fanfold and feed them thru my HP 855C as one would a legal size envelope. Works great. The color ink is not tolerant to moisture so I spray the finished label with clear "Crylon". I imported clip art flowers from some other "Windows" type application and added them to the very limited choice that comes with the $9.95 package. Another trick that works for me is to use a different flower for each different size jar that uses the same size label. So far, this has kept me from errors such as putting a "1 Qt." label on a "1 Pt." jar. In my case, as a small beekeeper, it is my opinion that the non professional label seems to be beneficial to the limited market of individuals I sell to. Bob Fanning Huntsville, AL k4vb@hiwaay.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 21:44:57 -0500 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: What does everyone do for labels? Regarding the label issue, does anybody now the legal or liability ramifications about having your honey labeled? I was told by one beekeeper that if you label your honey you must have liability insurance. I don't know if that is a state law of where he lives or if it applies nation (US) wide. I've wanted to make labels for the honey I sell but have been concerned about this issue. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 00:19:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David J Trickett Subject: Re: Mavrick (fwd) Forwarded message: > > Ted Fisher wrote - > > Tim Cote wrote: > I've been calling around looking for about 50 hives to buy this fall, > and in that search I found a beekeeper in Mississippi who, when I > asked him about the state of mite-treatment in the hives I was > considering buying, told of his use of Maverick. When he said it was > based on fuvalinate, I thought maybe there's a new commercial > alternative to apistan(!?). He told me excitedly of how powerful the > stuff is in killing Varrolla when doloped into a hive. > > And so, dear readers, this practice occurs on our soil as we speak. > This is exactly what I was referring to a few weeks ago when I posted the post referring to concern over contamination of wax via illegal use of water-soluble fluavalinates. I think I used the term "big guys" or "big outfits." I don't see what everyone is so worried about however... Afterall, there are hordes of lab techs out there monitoring the purity of wax and honey... right? Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:02:29 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Thanks to BEE-LIST In-Reply-To: <199610050402.VAA12448@beach.silcom.com> Bee-listers, Fall is upon us, the bees are settling down for the winter. Time to evaluate the past season and prepare for next year. I must confess that I look forward to reading digested BEE-list postings delivered each day to my box. I am truelly grateful for the pearls of wisdom that have passed thru this list. Many of the ideas and discussions have helped me refine my procedures in managing my small apiary of 4 hives this season to a point where I could probably handle 8 hives next year. Some of the changes/additions that I have made this year: I have found myself using frame grips less and less. I can open a hive with a standard hive tool and loosening the10th frame for easy removal if a small space is left between it and the hive wall. I have stopped using venom-laced gloves in favor of disposable surgical gloves (BEE-list idea #100) and now my finger dexterity is maintained, and the bees stay calmer. I would set the frames on the ground leaning against the hive. No more. I now use one of the metal FRAME PERCHes from Brushy Mountain Bee Co. Up to 4 frames can hang nicely on the outside of the hive while there rest of the colony is inspected. Thanks to Double Screen Boards, requeening and swarm prevention ideas from this list were tested and found to work quite well. Honey extraction was a breeze this season with the help of Bee Escape Boards. And finally, the labor-intensive assembling of wired frames and foundation was replaced with snap-in Permadent foundation. Just think about it.... with the collective minds of over 450 subscribers on this list, surely we can all work together to help solve many of the problems affecting this industry. Keep those pearls of wisdom flowing. :) Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:02:33 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Migratory Beekeeping One of my patients gave me a National Geographic with a great article on migratory beekeeping. Check out the May 1993 issue, pages 73 - 93. I am curious to know if the family depicted in this article - the Andersons and their Cal-Min Honey Farm is still doing migratory beekeeping these days or have they been affected by agri-business changes. Is migratory beekeeping on a rise or decline these days? "If small, family-run honey businesses fail, pollination would be left to the country's few big beekeepers - those who run as many as 50,000 hives. They could demand higher prices for their bees, pushing up the price of food." It is interesting to think that my hobby of beekeeping has such awesome potential for mankind. BTW who is the largest beekeeping organization in the US? Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 23:48:21 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Newsletter BTW Thanks for the newsletter. Enjoyed it. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 08:42:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: HTML, HELP! I need HELP! I desperately need some major help with HTML code, for my website. I can't get my page to respond to commands that I have integrated into my index.html file. I also have questions about how to do some things that are not in the basic HTML guides on the WWW. Please, if you know how to do this or know some place that I can get the info, e-mail me at my personal e-mail address. BTW, is there an "HTML For Dummies" book? I need it! Thanx, Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 07:17:29 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ann Dougherty Subject: Wax Bloom In-Reply-To: <19961006134251244.AAA528@34.ann1.dal.why.net> I'm in the process of making candles and other beeswax products and need to find out how to prevent "bloom" from occuring. Normally I use a hair dryer and soft cloth to remove this frosty menace, but it is labor intensive and the wax never is quite the same afterwards. I've noticed that it doesn't effect every piece of wax. Is it sometning in the environment or the wax itself? There's been a small thread saying " Three cheers for bee-l". I couldn't agree more! Ann ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 09:38:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Frame Grips again I have two fr. grips but don't use them (anymore). I found it nearly impossible (if not merely time consuming) to lift out a frame without pinching or "rolling" bees betweem the end bars and the hive wall. Also as mentioned, you have to loosen the frame with a hive-tool anyway; with tool in hand you are already "there" and can remove the frame without any added motions, like transferring the hive tool to the other hand and picking up the frame grip (whatever). I have seen others use them, and when a frame is stuck, some folks will grab the top bar with the grips and rock it back and forth trying to loosen it. Suddenly the frame breaks free from the hive and the frame gets yanked out with too much force, and too fast. Bees get knocked, rolled, and angry. I guess it depends on how careful you are. But it's much easier to judge the force needed to free and gently remove a frame when you are lifting it with your fingers. Another thing is that once the frame is in the grip and out of the hive, you can't grab it well to shake or transfer it, because you only have one free hand! I used to use the frame grip to get the first, outermost frame out. That was when I had 10 frames/brood chamber. Now that I've switched to 9 I sometimes don't even need a hive tool to remove brood frames. Or, at least the first frame comes out much more readily. FWIW ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:57:56 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dave Green, Eastern Pollinator Newsletter" Subject: Re: HTML, HELP! In a message dated 96-10-06 09:48:15 EDT, Bkeeper1@why.net (Michael L. Wallace) writes: << I need HELP! I desperately need some major help with HTML code, for my website. I can't get my page to respond to commands that I have integrated into my index.html file. I also have questions about how to do some things that are not in the basic HTML guides on the WWW. Please, if you know how to do this or know some place that I can get the info, e-mail me at my personal e-mail address. BTW, is there an "HTML For Dummies" book? I need it! >> I think I have seen an "HTML for Dummies" at an office supply store. You also might try the HTML tutorial (free), which is available at: http://www.htmlgoodies.com/ Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green, PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554 (Dave & Jan's Pollination Service, Pot o'Gold Honey Co.) Practical Pollination Home Page Dave & Janice Green http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:39:03 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: HTML, HELP! > I desperately need some major help with HTML code, for my website. I can't get my page to respond to commands that I have integrated into my index.html file. Although I used to write all my HTML by hand in a UNIX editor, and then in a Windows editor like Notepad, today that is passee. There are slick new programs that do it all for you -- frames, tables, java, and the works! All you need to do is point and click. WYSIWYG! I have lost interest in HTML and don't know what the hottest are, but I do know I recently downloaded a free enhancement for MS Word that turns word into a browser, and converts my word documents into HTML transparently! I got it at Microsoft's web pages. I haven't done much at all with it and leave the tinkering to you. If you want to get some of the trial, demo, freeware, or shareware versions of some of the best HTML editors, try Stroud's at: http://engine.caboose.com/cwsapps/html.html Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 20:18:31 GMT Reply-To: phoenix@aug.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stanton A Hershman Organization: Phoenix Subject: st augustine fl In-Reply-To: <199610041407.AA15637@interlock.halnet.com> anyone in the st augustine fl area raising bees?? reply to phoenix@aug.com stanton = =20 =20 phoenix@aug.com WEBPAGE: userpages.aug.com/phoenix =20 MADNESS TAKES ITS TOLL. PLEASE HAVE EXACT CHANGE.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 20:19:39 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Migratory Beekeeping >One of my patients gave me a National Geographic with a great article on >migratory beekeeping. Check out the May 1993 issue, pages 73 - 93. Haven't seen this article, but gather that it dealt with migratory beekeeping in the U.S. (please correct me if I am wrong). I would be interested to know a bit about migratory beekeeping in West Australia, where I gather that many beekeepers follow the bloom as it moves north. Do we have any West Australian beekeepers on the list? I gather that Nick Wallingford is originally from a large family beekeeping operation in West Australia. Do you know of any information on the internet about migratory beekeeping there, Nick? I once worked in West Australia and was stunned by the bloom there after it rains. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:07:57 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Frame Grips I voted in favor of Frame grips. I gave a set to my father. He also likes them. Steve Albritton Monroe, La. USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 22:29:58 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ing. Gaivironsky" Subject: beekeping assoc. address Dear BEE-Liners Mike Allsopp, from South Africa, ask about national association of beekepers. The next addresses are from Beekeping Associations of Argentina: Federacion Apicola de la Provincia de Buenos Aires Mr. Daniel Pasetti Dean Funes 1147, 6015-General Viamonte Provincia de Buenos Aires, Republica Argentina Phone-Fax: 54-0-358-2110 and Sociedad Argentina de Apicultores Rivadavia 717, 8 piso, 1392-Buenos Aires Republica Argentina Phone (fax?): 54-1-343-8171 Cheers, Lidia Gaivironsky Lidia Gaivironsky gaivi@overnet.com.ar ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 22:24:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: Internet Message Comments: To: bbirkey@interaccess.com >Regarding the label issue, does anybody now the legal or liability ramifications about >having your honey labeled? I was told by one beekeeper that if you label your honey you >must have liability insurance. I don't know if that is a state law of where he lives or if it >applies nation (US) wide. I've wanted to make labels for the honey I sell but have been >concerned about this issue. Most large stores will not sell your hiney without product liability insurance. As far as I know it is not required, but in today's society were people sue at a drop of a hat I would get some. -- End --