Received: from relay.internode.net (relay.internode.net [198.161.228.50]) by sysx.internode.net (NTMail 3.02.12) with ESMTP id allend for ; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:56:28 -0700 Received: from [169.226.1.21] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id ACC4A6E00F6; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:37:24 -0700 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 5113; Wed, 29 Jan 97 11:50:59 EST Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 7295; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:50:54 -0500 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:50:48 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9612E" To: "W. Allen Dick" Resent-From: Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 97 09:37:52 EST Resent-To: allend@mail1.internode.net Message-Id: <16562830703463@systronix.net> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 18:03:58 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Barrett Subject: Re: BEES AND BEELINING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Adrian Wenner wrote: >=20 > > I'd be interested in some of the basics [on beelining] if you would = like > >to >share it here! > Try the following 19th century methods if you wish: An 1832 (Quaker) vi= sitor=20 to the Australian colonies observed the following method of bee-hunting=20 aborigines =93During the heat of the day the bees resort to the neighbour= ing=20 streams in order to obtain water. They are there sought for by the native= s;=20 and on one being discovered, its body is cautiously wetted with saliva. W= hile=20 it remains imprisoned during the act of drying, the light white down of t= he=20 Cockatoo, being dropped upon it, becomes by this means, closely cemented = to=20 its body. So soon as it again recovers the use of its wings, the insect f= lies=20 away, bearing along with it this conspicuous mark, which is sufficiently=20 heavy to retard its progress, and enables the keen eye of the native, to=20 trace it to its horde.=94 I have copies of two period pencil drawings of aborigines doing just this= ,=20 the first is of a native patiently waiting by a source of water, the seco= nd,=20 running like the wind after the tagged bee.=20 An anonymous clergyman related the following in 1866 regarding Australia=92= s=20 native Trigona social bee =93The native bee has no sting, is dark in colo= ur,=20 slender in body, and not much larger than the common house-fly. The=20 aborigines adopt a very ingenious method of discovering their hives; catc= hing=20 one, which they can always readily do where there is water, they fix with= =20 gum, which is easily obtained from any of the trees beside them, a small=20 particle of white down upon its back, let it fly away, and keep running=20 after, holding their eyes intently upon it, till they see it alight at it= s=20 hive, which is always found in a hole in an upstanding tree. One native, = with=20 a tomahawk or a stone adze in hand, cuts notches in the tree for his big = toes=20 to rest upon, and in this way making notches as he ascends, using them as= =20 steps in a ladder, and holding by the tree with one of his hands, he moun= ts=20 and very speedily cuts out the honey-comb at the place where the bee was = seen=20 to enter. The bark from the knot of a tree serves for a dish to hold the=20 comb, and it is soon devoured at one meal.=94 Enter the European honeybee, add smoke to subdue the bees and the aborigi= ne=20 could transfer this method to A. Mellifera. from Peter Barrett, Blue Mountains, New South Wales, Australia. (Not so c= old=20 here for Christmas Day as for you northern hemisphere beekeepers, a real=20 scorcher, around 39+ degrees C. (100+F.) The bees hang out at dusk and la= st=20 light, 8:30pm, and even later as they cure the heavy loads of nectar floo= ding=20 in.) Seasons greetings from downunder. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 22:15:02 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Who's who... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've had a page of NZ beekeeping email addresses that I've expanded somewhat to include other beekeepers. If you'd like to add your own email address and some details, there's a form at the bottom of the page: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/whoswho.htm I've also added a form to the bottom of my list of internet beekeeping sites: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/others.htm (guess whos been teaching himself how to do HTML forms????) (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 12:20:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Guy McDonald Subject: Re: Paint or oil? I have been using boiled linseed oil for two years. I like the way it weathers....turning gray over the years. My main reason was because of the natural look......stands out less. >>camoflaged. The point? The camoflaged supers have far out performed the >>others in every consitently over the years. The hives with the red hearts >>all over and especially over the entrance did well. Oh and my plain white I like the above statement...maybe I also have a side benefit with the camouflage. Thanks, Guy. Mass. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 14:26:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Edun Subject: Re: Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >May I recommend instead the following article: > > 1992 Wenner, A.M., J.E. Alcock, and D.E. Meade. Efficient hunting of >feral colonies. Bee Science 2:64-70. > > Adrian > >Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) >Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) >Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) >Santa Barbara, CA 93106 Dear Adrian, Are you able to send me a copy of the above the article please? Abbas Edun ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 15:46:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Cecile T. Kohrs" Subject: Re: Cecile and New Zealand Dear Nick! How was your Christmas? Did the kids have fun? I had a fabulous one, and I got a bunch of great presents... including the news that since my friend in Canada is going to New Zealand, I can go and visit!!! I have been reading up on New Zealand, and I am hoping to come next January or February, though I haven't decided exactly when would be the best time. What would you recommend as a good time to visit??? Cecile wyeknottc@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 17:06:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bernard_J.F._Blach=E8re?=" Subject: Re: Cecile and New Zealand MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BBF4E1.869A51E0" Ceci est un message avec plusieurs parties au format MIME. ------=_NextPart_000_01BBF4E1.869A51E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mailer.together.net id QAA07852 ---------- > De : Cecile T. Kohrs > A : Multiple recipients of list BEE-L > Objet : Re: Cecile and New Zealand > Date=A0: 28 d=E9cembre, 1996 15:46 >=20 > Dear Nick! >=20 > How was your Christmas? Did the kids have fun? > I had a fabulous one, and I got a bunch of great presents... including the > news that since my friend in Canada is going to New Zealand, I can go a= nd > visit!!! I have been reading up on New Zealand, and I am hoping to come next > January or February, though I haven't decided exactly when would be the best > time. >=20 > What would you recommend as a good time to visit??? > Cecile > wyeknottc@aol.com Who cares ? ------=_NextPart_000_01BBF4E1.869A51E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



----------
> De : Cecile T. Kohrs <Wyeknottc@aol.com>
> A : Multiple recipients of list BEE-L = <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
> Objet : Re: Cecile and New = Zealand
> Date=A0: 28 d=E9cembre, 1996 15:46
>
> Dear = Nick!
>
> How was your Christmas? Did the kids have = fun?
> I had a fabulous one, and I got a bunch of great = presents... including the
> news that since my friend in Canada is = going to New Zealand, I can go and
> visit!!! I have been reading = up on New Zealand, and I am hoping to come next
> January or = February, though I haven't decided exactly when would be the = best
> time.
>
> What would you recommend as a good = time to visit???
> Cecile
> wyeknottc@aol.com
Who cares ?

------=_NextPart_000_01BBF4E1.869A51E0-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 18:05:23 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Victor M. Kroenke" Subject: Re: Q: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harry Sweet wrote: > > Why on earth would anyone paint the inside of a hive? The bees provide > an excellent sealer. > Harry Sweet > N. California I have never seen a hive that the bees have provided an excellent sealer to the inside of the boxes. I agree that boxes last a lot longer with less warpage if they are painted or sealed on the inside as well as the outside. Vic Kroenke Kansas,USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 21:03:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIDNITEBEE Subject: beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ Last call for beekeepers who would be willing to sell beeswax to their neighbors.I prefer only beekeepers,not companies who sell beeswax.Your name and address,plus phone# ,will be added to my web site.No prices will be listed!! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 21:24:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Sweet Subject: Re: Q: Using rough cut lumber in hive body construction? In a message dated 96-12-28 19:10:06 EST, you write: << Harry Sweet wrote: > > Why on earth would anyone paint the inside of a hive? The bees provide > an excellent sealer. > Harry Sweet > N. California I have never seen a hive that the bees have provided an excellent sealer to the inside of the boxes. I agree that boxes last a lot longer with less warpage if they are painted or sealed on the inside as well as the outside. Vic Kroenke Kansas,USA >> Well.... what about all that propolis. My hives get a real nice coating by the bees. Do they not do this in other lands? I vent my hives and don't have much of a moisture problem, do you think that might make a difference? I've never had a box get warped in 10 years. Usually they get UNwarped. Batten down those bee hatches there's a big storm brew'in on the US west coast and soon to come to you mid-westerners! Harry Sweet N. California ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 22:24:59 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Bleach in syrup? In-Reply-To: <199612112149.QAA90262@freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 11 Dec 1996, Kelley Rosenlund wrote: > Also, I have heard some bugkeepers put 1 pint of bleach per 55 > gallons of syrup to help fight chalk brood, anyone try this? I have never heard of this....is it safe?...and also, what would the dosage for us small-time guys?..;) ie. how much per gallon? -and dont tell me 1/55th of a pint....;P Thanks..:) Ian @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ Ian Watson @ @ iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca @ @ @ @ THREE BEES: @ @ Bach singer ,/// @ @ Bee keeper >8'III}- @ @ Bell ringer ',\\\ @ @ @ @ 4 hives, 2 years in Beekeeping @ @ St. Catharines, Canada @ @ "I BEE, therefore I am" @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 04:01:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: biological clock? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I posted a question recently in "solstice and bees" wondering what cues prompted the resumption of brood rearing. No one seemed to have any opinions on the subject. I will try to rephrase the question in hope that I can encourage someone discussion. *FACTS* (maybe premises would be better, open to debate anyway): 1. Even if my posting gave too long a broodless period (Allen mentioned a study that found some brood in every month except November I believe) there is a period of time when the Queen stops laying (in Canada anyway). 2. It is not temperature dependent because she shuts down before the coldest period and resumes laying around the hardest time imaginable to maintain brood rearing temperatures and at a time when having to heat a little patch of brood can prevent the cluster from moving around and maintaining honey contact. If there is a temperature relation it is not an obvious one anyway. I believe where people put bees in temperature controlled storage the pattern of brood rearing is maintained. Anyone do this that could comment? 3. If light (day length) is the "cue" then the relation is also not immediately obvious and I believe that the pattern is maintained even if the bees are wintered in the ground or without light. (comment?) 4. My experience with receiving package bees from NZ and Australia is that they start to build up very similarly to packages we used to get from Florida, despite the fact that they are coming from a place where brood rearing was shutting down (I assume). If there is a biological clock regulating this activity then it seems that it can be quickly reset. 5. There seems to be a genetic component to this "instinct", or to the way it works. I believe that my Carniolans have a longer broodless period than the Italians I used to get. I would be most interested in knowing whether I could add "internal clock" to the long list of other remarkable abilities that the bees have and which give me much pleasure to wonder at. I also am curious as to what the situation is with bees in other locations where there may not be a winter. If there is a dry and wet season do the bees start to raise a lot of brood in the period of nectar shortage at the end of the dry season so that they will be strong when the flowers pop after the wet season starts? Someone in the southern US once posted that their main flow was in the fall with not too much before that. I wonder if their bees still built up like mad in the spring the way ours do here, or whether it was delayed. Happy New Year Stan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 05:55:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: Paint v's oil Here in Australia most boxes are painted white. There was research carried out in Australia many years ago which showed that white was better than darker colours because it was not as hot inside the hive. Therefore the bees did not have to spent unnecessary time cooling the hive. This research was carried out on empty boxes, with bottoms and lids, placed out in the sun. With temperatures which can reach into the low 40's celsius any help the bees can get is, I am sure, appreciated. Some used aluminium paint because it stood up to heat from grassfires better than white. However there are several good heat resistant white paints. Linseed oil was used in the past but you cannot get the old formulations nowadays. One of the reasons why linseed oil has not been commonly used in recent years in Australia is that linseed oil is one of the perfect cultures to grow mould on. Here the boxes covered in linseed oil would become black. This then caused the hive to become hotter than it should as the black absorbed heat. As a lot of beekeepers treat their boxes with copper naphthenate, to stop rot, some add linseed oil to the copper naphthenate to stop the timber drying out in the low humidity areas, such as the yapunyah country. Here the humidity is low and the timber will dry and so the linseed oil "conditions" the timber. The maximum amount of linseed oil that can be added is around 15% of the total volume. Over this, the linseed oil interferes with the copper naphthenate penetrating the timber. Even our Oz lids have white painted or colorbond (trade description) metal on them to reflect heat. It is amazing how cooler these are on the surface compared to straight galvanised metal. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 08:27:05 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Bob St. John" Subject: Re: biological clock? In-Reply-To: <199612290801.EAA20691@bud.peinet.pe.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 29 Dec 1996, Stan Sandler wrote: >I posted a question recently in "solstice and bees" wondering what cues >prompted the resumption of brood rearing. No one seemed to have any >opinions on the subject. I will try to rephrase the question in hope that I >can encourage someone discussion. > >I also am curious as to what the situation is with bees in other locations >where there may not be a winter. If there is a dry and wet season do the >bees start to raise a lot of brood in the period of nectar shortage at the >end of the dry season so that they will be strong when the flowers pop after >the wet season starts? Someone in the southern US once posted that their >main flow was in the fall with not too much before that. I wonder if their >bees still built up like mad in the spring the way ours do here, or whether >it was delayed. > >Happy New Year >Stan > When I was keeping Caucasian bees in California the queens prety much quit laying in October. Here in Hawaii they do not quit at all. They slow down around September or October and stqrt their buildup in November or December so they are reqdy for the Lehua flow that begins in January. The pollen comes in every day and so does a little honey. With no winter we don't have to worry about winter stores. The tropical swarming syndrome is developing here. The swarms come mostly in late spring but they could show up any time and they can all survive since they don't need large stores. Race has somwthing to do with how fast bees build up but climate is probably a bigger factor. They do not build up as fast in California as they do in the North. California's honey flow starts in January and they will reach peak at the end of March for the Orange flow. Then they are apt to stay about the same until fall. The originalquestion is a very good one but I wonder if we will ever find a complete expalantion for all of the decisions the bees seem to make. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 13:23:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward A Craft Jr Subject: Re: biological clock? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I posted a question recently in "solstice and bees" wondering what cues >prompted the resumption of brood rearing. No one seemed to have any >opinions on the subject. I will try to rephrase the question in hope that I >can encourage someone discussion. > >My experience as a beekeeper in Central Florida is that my queens only stop laying when there is a lack of nectar. I feed all "winter" Jan & Feb and as long as there is pollen she will keep laying. When the first of March comes there is enough brood and bees around to make splits. Even if I didn't feed there is very little time that nothing is blooming and you can usually find brood. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 13:31:57 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: biological clock? In-Reply-To: <199612291642.LAA00884@magicnet.magicnet.net> from "Edward A Craft Jr" at Oct 26, 96 01:23:54 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: Although this topic is debated, there is at least one European paper that suggests that the failure of queens to lay when kept inside flight chamber rooms is a function of photoperiod. Supposedly, if one increases the effective daylength by 15 minute intervals, the queen will begin laying again. Jumping the daylength from a short outdoor photoperiod (assuming you are moving the queens indoors) to a long daylength doesn't work. To reprogram the queen, you have to increase the time more gradually, although the 15 minute per day jumps can be used to speed up the process. If I wasn't in a rush, I'd pull the reference and post it. As it is, I have to get back to plowing the most recent dump of snow from my drive on the hill (we now stand at over 40" for the month, got another 4-8" last night). Cheers Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana-Missoula jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 15:56:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Edun Subject: Re: BEES Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" George in Vermont wrote a very interesting article on how to find bees. Any similar articles will be much appreciated. Abbas Edun ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 16:11:24 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: biological clock? In-Reply-To: <199612292031.NAA08938@selway.umt.edu>; from "Jerry J Bromenshenk" at Dec 29, 96 1:31 pm Hello all; Here in Virginia we are having a spell of "spring" weather (today nearly 70 F) so I took the opportunity to check my 10 hives. All seemd good and strong and were actively flying. Some will need some more feed, so I'll get it on right away. Here's the strange part -- In the 3 hives that I went thru frame by frame, I found both capped and young, uncapped brood. Another local beekeeper told me that a week or so ago, when he set up a hive that had been overturned by the wind, he found brood in it. Temperatures then were quite low -- 20s F at night, maybe 40s F during the day. We both were surprised to find brood rearing going on at this time of year. Just though I'd add this to the discussion, FWIW. Cordially, Fred Augusta County, Virginia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:47:40 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: biological clock? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >I posted a question recently in "solstice and bees" wondering what cues >prompted the resumption of brood rearing. No one seemed to have any >opinions on the subject. I will try to rephrase the question in hope that I >can encourage someone discussion. I remember once hearing/reading about hives with 'local' (read: bees bred in the areas) that were moved to new locations. My memory of it was a French location that had a boomer of a dandilion honey flow early in the spring, but little main crop or autumn flows. The other site was a (Scottish?) heather site, where there was no flow of any sort until the calluna flowered in late autumn. The bees in their 'home' locations had population build ups to suit - the French bees brooding up very early, the heather bees remaining as a small colony through the spring and summer, but with main brood rearing late in the season. The story went that swapping the hives to the other location caused havoc for both sets of hives. One lot didn't build up in time to get the dandilion flow. The other built up in the spring when there was nothing there for them and then collapsed before the heather finally appeared. The 'punchline' was that it took the colonies 3 to 5 generations before the 'smarts' were instilled in their genes to allow them an appropriate broodrearing strategy for the local conditions. NOTE: This is a good story only, and I've quoted it often, but I can't for the life of me remember where it came from, or the credence that could be given to it!! (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 16:57:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: Re: Ventilation: How much -=> Quoting Int:bee-l@cnsibm.albany.e to Watchman <=- In> On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Mark D. Egloff wrote: > Gentlepeople: > > As I was looking at all the miscellaneous holes and other areas > which provide both emergency exits and ventilation, I > remembered reading, I believe in one of Brother Adams books, an > admonition about having "draughts". I began to wonder if there <<<<< portions clipped for brevity >>>>> > In several of my hives I have modified the innercovers to allow > more ventilation which seems to help keep them dry, but when is > "to much of a good thing"? > In> Hi David, I'm glad your back. Don't worry about the sharks, they In> have no teeth.They wont be doing the judging anyway. <<<<< Description of Roy's insulated cover clipped >>>>> In> I have another model with a condensing chamber , that will run the In> water out and keep the heat in. Remmember that the water will condense In> in the coolest part of the cover. The mfr. of this unit is not easy In> enough so far. Hi Roy, I just had a brief brainstorm that you might want to try. Build a deeper top cover that slopes up towards the rear. It would also be a couple of inches longer than normal so it hangs off the back of the hive a few inches. This of course would leave a big gap at the back of the hive. Here you would nail up another board to close the gap to the desired thickness. Here also is the biggest difference. Through a slice in the top place a sheet of aluminum angled towards the rear so that its bottom edge is in the newly created overhang in the rear. The slice would be about 1/3 of the way from the rear of the hive. You would also leave about 6" of this sheet sticking out of the top and then seal it against the weather. The way it would work is that your insulation idea would keep the hive warm. The sheet would be radiating heat away and would therfore be the coldest thing inside the hive. Any moisture would condense on the sheet and then run to the bottom edge which is 'outside' of the hive proper. Here when it drips off it would only temporarily collect on the draft blocking board and then drip outside to the ground. A passive dehumidifier. I'm not sure but this may even work in the summer due to the differences in cooling rates although you would probably remove the insulation and open up the blocking board a bit more. (It would be working summer nights that is when there is no solar heating of the metal...) Comments? Have I overlooked anything? I only have one hive butI may try this as soon as I get time to build it. Carl Powell Watchman@qwick.net Tidewater area of Va.,US In> We have new snow on the ground this morning and about 30 F.We may get In> a little winter after all. I do think that it is about our turn for a In> winter.Here in Washington State ( western part ) we do not get In> extreemly cold. We do get wet. So moisture is our real problem. In> Have a Happy New Year In> Roy ... "Give the finger, a gesture usually..." "That's enough Data." ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 18:19:04 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: biological clock? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You wrote on BEE-L: > If I wasn't in a rush, I'd pull the reference and post it. As it is, I > have to get back to plowing the most recent dump of snow from my drive > on the hill (we now stand at over 40" for the month, got another 4-8" > last night). Jerry: Would you mind keeping that snow out there for awhile. We would like to stay snowless here on the coast almost directly east of you for awhile more. BTW: I see that you are in Missoula. I have a very good friend of many years just north of you in Libby. In fact my, wife, son and myself took Amtrack out and stayed with my friend for about two and a half weeks (about nine years ago). Gawd, you guys live in beautiful country! We used to go out into the woods and mountains every day while my friend was working (he's a vet- Douglas C. Griffiths to give him a name). At night the whole lot of us would go up into the mountains and watch the moose feeding. Although there are many Grizzlies, we never idi one into one in the woods. The last thing i wanted to do was accidentally find one on the other side of a bluebeery bush, in total suroprise because the wind was going the wrong way! we each have very fond memories of Montana! One nite we camped overnite in a Forest Fire tower. Wouldn't you know that one hellacious thunderstorm came thru and boy did we rock and roll - exciting times. Regards, Al > > Cheers > > Jerry Bromenshenk > The University of Montana-Missoula > jjbmail@selway.umt.edu -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham - Scituate,MA,USA - Alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:26:56 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Allen Subject: Painting the inside of a hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Why on earth would anyone paint the inside of a hive? The bees provide >an excellent sealer. This statement is quite true but there are 2 other reasons for painting the inside of a hive. In my case I like to paint the inside in a gloss white. The advantages are: 1) It is easier to scrape and clean the inside surface if it has a hard gloss finish. 2) With a light colour inside (white), it is easier to look down between the frames to see what is happening. It works particularly well for the bottom board. When I have lifted all the other boxes off and have only 1 brood chamber left, I can look between the frames and see what condition the bottom board is in. With a dark bottom board I would have to lift the brood chamber as well before I can check the bottom board. The white insides of the boxes is particularly helpful when I do not have the boxes on the hives. When a I have a stack of boxes with empty frames, the light coloured insides of the box makes it much easier to see what I am looking at. Just to complete the story (for those who want to ask), I paint the outside a darker colour. the reasons are: 1) A light colour (like white) attracts the un-welcome attention of vandals and neighbors. Dark colours help to camouflage the hives. 2) I do not like the glare of reflected light form light coloured boxes. Once again it is much easier to see inside the darker space of the boxes when you are not blinded by a glare from the a white outside. Regards Chris Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 18:29:58 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Sorry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ooops! Sorry just sent a private mesaage to Jerry by mistke! -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham - Scituate,MA,USA - Alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:43:42 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Henry Subject: Building Supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I followed the thread on using rough lumber to build supers with interest hoping the dimensions would be mentioned, but it didn't happen. I plan on building 25-30 deep supers and would like to know standard dimensions. Is there a reference document applicable to NA that I could pursue at the local library? Also I'm wondering about the use of mortise versus simple lap joints. If anybody on the list could offer some suggestions in this regard I would appreciate it. Thanks, Doug Henry Lockport Manitoba ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:54:54 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: processing propolis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:02 11/24/96 +0100, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >Poster: Karel Bokhorst >Subject: Re: processing propolis >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >---------- >Hi Michael> >> I am very interested in the hand out you mentioned,but since I live in >the Netherlands >I take it that it will cost more than $0.55. I propose that you e-mail me >your post address and I will send you some documentation so that in return, >if you think it worth >while,you send me your hand out. >thanks in advance > >Bee Greeted > >Karel Bokhorst Hello, Karel, Sorry it has taken so long to respond, but several factors have played a part in it taking me so long. The above suggestion is an agreeable arrangement. My address is 150 Dorothy Drive, McKinney, Texas 75069. Please, however, make it worth my while. It is going to cost me $3.20 US to send this info to you. Thanks! Cheers, Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "God bless you!" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:55:00 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: processing propolis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:19 11/26/96 +1000, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >Poster: Vince Constable >Subject: Re: processing propolis >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Mike would be interested to obtain a copy of propolis handout, >can you advise how much to obtain copy,but note I am in Australia. >My address is as follows >Vince Constable >Info Tech Div. >Central QLD University >Rockhampton >Queensland >Australia >thanks > > Hello, Vince, As you may have seen in a recent post to the list, it will cost $2.20 US in postage to send the paper your way. That's a total of $3.20 US for the paper. If you're still interested, my address is 150 Dorothy Drive, McKinney, Texas 75069. Regards, Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "God bless you!" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 21:33:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Watson Subject: Re: Building Supers In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 29 Dec 1996, Doug Henry wrote: > I followed the thread on using rough lumber to build supers with interest > hoping the dimensions would be mentioned, but it didn't happen. I plan on > building 25-30 deep supers and would like to know standard dimensions. Is > there a reference document applicable to NA that I could pursue at the > local library? Standard dimensions are readily available. Try "The Hive and the Honeybee" (Dadant...any modern edition). "Langstroth" hive is normal in North America. You should find this book in your local library. I assume you are starting out and have no equipment to copy....you could always BUY a new super and use it as a pattern. Rob ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 00:08:22 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Building Supers Hi all, Any comments on configurations (Langstroth/Dadant) regarding location of the beespace above/below the frames? Some of my woodenware appears to have the frame tops flush with the box tops (and the beespace below the frames,) and others have the frames recessed below the box top (with the beespace on top of the frames.) If I am not careful and intermix these, there is burr comb to pay, big time! This winter, I'm routing all them down to the same dims from the top, so the space is topside. Anybody else notice this? I think different manufacturers make 'em different! Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA On Sun, 29 Dec 1996 21:33:16 -0500 Robert Watson writes: >On Sun, 29 Dec 1996, Doug Henry wrote: > >Standard dimensions are readily available. >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 15:08:50 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Barrett Subject: Re: BEES & beelining MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jinnah Edun wrote: > > George in Vermont wrote a very interesting article on how to find bees. Any > similar articles will be much appreciated. > > Abbas EdunTry "The Salt Book - Lobstering ... and other Yankee doings", edited by Pamela Wood, Anchor Press, New York, 1977, ISBN 0-385-11422-2. pages 386-398. Author uses a bait box with comb & honey, marks bees with coloured chalk, measures hive distance by time to return, 7 minutes = 1/2 a mile there and back. Sometimes uses triangulation. If you can't find a copy I can scan in the story and email to anyone interested. Peter Barrett, Blue Mountains, 50 miles west of Sydney, 'downunder' ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 01:35:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Building Supers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Gerry, The USA "standard" calls for the bee space above the frames. (Hives in the UK commonly have bottom bee-space.) How this turns out in practice is not so cut and dry. I have seen hive bodies with 1/8 - 3/8" bee space above the frames, and 1/8 - 1/4" below. It varies. I think most of the equipment from suppliers in the US has about 1/4" above the frames, AND a scant 1/8" below. This seems to work out. Problem is, with all the slight variations, you can end up with not enough space or too much space between stories. So the bees get crushed, or they fill the space with burr comb. A few years ago, GLEANINGS ran a series of articles about the woodenware from a number of US suppliers. The differences in bee space and other measurements were compared thoroughly in the articles. It was very enlightening. The degree of variation among the different manufacturers' hives was pretty remarkable. So much for the "standard" hive. I have ended up with a number of pre-owned supers from various sources, which were constructed such that there was virtually no bee space above the top bars. This is really frustrating, as the frames will get stuck to those in the super above them. What I am doing is gradually re-cutting the rabbets to the appropriate depth (usu. 5/8") with a router. I made a simple guide out of some wood scraps which sets on the top of the super & allows me to make a smooth, single pass with the router to leave the proper rabbet (rebate). It isn't perfect, but it works and it is better than having the bee space totally wrong. >Hi all, > > Any comments on configurations (Langstroth/Dadant) regarding location >of the beespace above/below the frames? Some of my woodenware appears to >have the frame tops flush with the box tops (and the beespace below the >frames,) and others have the frames recessed below the box top (with the >beespace on top of the frames.) > > If I am not careful and intermix these, there is burr comb to pay, big >time! This winter, I'm routing all them down to the same dims from the >top, so the space is topside. > > Anybody else notice this? I think different manufacturers make 'em >different! > >Gerry and the other Visels at >Visel7@juno.com >Winnebago, Illinois, USA > >On Sun, 29 Dec 1996 21:33:16 -0500 Robert Watson > writes: >>On Sun, 29 Dec 1996, Doug Henry wrote: >> >>Standard dimensions are readily available. >>> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 08:59:23 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Wasps (large yellow wasp with black stripes) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey Bee-L'ers, Background information: Location: 97 degrees west latitiude, 32 degrees north longitude. ( I think this is close but I am not really good at this stuff) South west Oklahoma USA. Temperature this last week: lows in the 20's F and highs in the 60's F. We have had a cold snap this year. In early december lows in 0-10 degree F range and highs for a week that did not get above 40 F. Problem: I had 3 hives at a distant yard that I had not been out to visit since October 15, 1996. I went out to winterize the hives and remove queen excluders, supers and install some entrance reducers. I know I was late and should have done this earlier so please no flames on this point. In one of the hives all of the bees were above the queen excluder, even the queen!!!! Below the excluder was pulled wax and nothing else but trash (dead bees and some wax and dead leaves). No honey, no brood, no wax moths just about 6 of these large yellow wasps. As I inspected the other 2 hives I also found wasp carcus on the queen excluders. All of the live wasps were in the empty brood box and slow moving and pretty much winterized for hybernation so easily collected for insect collections (waste not want not). Question: Why hadn't wax moths moved in? Had the wasps been effective in protecting the equipment from moths? When I was at the hives in October, I had a dead hive with extensive moth damage (pesticides killed the hive), and the other 3 hives were still busy collecting nectar from cotton blooms. The hives were strong, 6 frames of brood each in a deep brood chamber in October. Comments????? Richard Barnes rbarnes@halnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:04:36 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Wasps, wax moths and COLD! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Richard Barnes queries: ... > Question: Why hadn't wax moths moved in?.... Answer (from your own post): > In early december lows in 0-10 degree F range and highs for a week > that did not get above 40 F. Temperatures in the 0-10 deg F are fatal to all stages of wax moth except pupae, which will not develop further until temperatures are more favorable. The wasps had nothing to do with it. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 07:49:00 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Re: Lining BEES Years ago I read an article concerning beelining. I have yet to try this technique myself and I am recalling the basics from memory. The technique included the idea of triangulating the bee lines. Basically after you have sufficient bees in the box to let one go and set a line of site. Set a sight line by placing a pole with a stick pointing in the general direction. You then move off to an angle of the beeline and let another bee go. Set another sight line. Now move back across the first site line still moving in the general direction. Let another bee go and set the third site line. With the three lines set you can now walk a considerable distance toward the intersection of the three lines of site before repeating the process. ========================== Rough Diagram ============================== Bee Tree . . . . . . . . . ______[bbb] . . _____- [bbb] . _____- [bbb] 3. . . _____- . _____- .. _____- [bbb] _____- Move Bees across 1st line --> [bbb]_____ - [bbb] \ 2. \ . \ . . \ . /|\ \ . | \ . Move \ . Bees \ . \ . \ . \ . \ . \ . [bbb] [bbb] [bbb] 1. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:56:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Watson Subject: Re: Building Supers In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 30 Dec 1996, Joel W. Govostes wrote: > Problem is, with all the slight variations, you can end up with not enough > space or too much space between stories. So the bees get crushed, or they > fill the space with burr comb. > > ............ The degree of variation among the different manufacturers' > hives was pretty remarkable. So much for the "standard" hive. My brother and I bought some new equipment in preparation for expansion next year and discovered that the top bars and bottom bars don't match. The cut-outs for the sides of the frames are almost 1/8" too close together on the top bars...I found it a nuisance when putting these together because I had to splay the sides out equally so one side wasnt noticeably crooked...I wonder if the bees will mind... I also discovered that a number of the super parts didn't fit in very well either. We had purchased mostly from another manufacturer before and found much more accuracy in his hive parts...his were also more expensive. We thought we were saving money, but you get what you pay for. Rob Ontario, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 07:06:23 +0000 Reply-To: progrope@iafrica.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Chris van Zyl Subject: Re: ANYBODY IN SOUTH AFRICA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Is there anybody who is in South Africa. I am needing advice on South African conditions. As we do not have such cold winters but have hot summers the conditions create different challenges. I am based in Port Elizabeth. Chris progrope@iafrica.com Chris van Zyl Progro Consultancy - Port Elizabeth - South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:45:07 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Roger W Burns (St Thomas' Surgery)" Subject: Varroa treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 I am a new addressee, who has been initiated into beekeeping by my two teenage sons. We have Apistan solution as Klartan, bought in France 2y ago. How do we prepare to treat our bees? What dilution is needed? We live in West Wales (pembrokeshire). -- Roger W Burns (St Thomas' Surgery) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 17:20:35 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" RE: > 1992 Wenner, A.M., J.E. Alcock, and D.E. Meade. Efficient hunting of >feral colonies. Bee Science 2:64-70. > Are you able to send me a copy of the above the article please? > >Abbas Edun Yes, but I need your mailing address. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************* * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 21:58:35 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: beeswax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ > > Last call for beekeepers who would be willing to sell beeswax to their > neighbors.I prefer only beekeepers,not companies who sell beeswax.Your name > and address,plus phone# ,will be added to my web site.No prices will be > listed!! beeswas for sale: Dr. Pedro Rodriguez 2133 Wolfsnare Road Virginia Beach, VA 23454 Phone: 757-486-1573 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 08:33:12 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pollination Services Subject: Re: "Mother Nature" and wild bees rescuing us? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In response to Dave Greens' letter, from the 26.12.96. I agree to every word in this letter. I would like to remark that the adverse effects of pesticides are not limited to direct harm come to the bees, causing decline of hives and thus inefficient pollination, but, there are some long term effects of substances that have deterrent activity, causing the bees to avoid visiting treated plant's flowers for weeks after the spraying (or otherwise application). A known example in Israel is IMIDACLOPRID (sold under commercial names like Gaucho and Confidure).THere were several observations in Solanaceae and Cucurbitaceae crops of bees (honeybees and bumblebees) avoiding the flowers up to six weeks after treatment. The results are disastrous, both to the farmer and the beekeeper. I think that any effort to impeove the situation mus include a wide scale education programm for farmers, pesticides' applicators and beekeepers, aimed to upgrade agricultural management. Dan ------------------------------------- Name: WEil Dan Pollination Services Yad-Mordechai E-mail: yad_mord@netvision.net.il Date: 29/12/1996 Time: 08:33:12 AM ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 17:08:10 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: biological clock?/more about Virginia beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > Hello all; > > Here in Virginia we are having a spell of "spring" weather > (today nearly 70 F) so I took the opportunity to check my 10 > hives. All seemd good and strong and were actively flying. > Some will need some more feed, so I'll get it on right away. > Here's the strange part -- In the 3 hives that I went thru frame by > frame, I found both capped and young, uncapped brood. Another > local beekeeper told me that a week or so ago, when he set up > a hive that had been overturned by the wind, he found brood in it. > Temperatures then were quite low -- 20s F at night, maybe 40s F > during the day. We both were surprised to find brood rearing > going on at this time of year. > > Just though I'd add this to the discussion, FWIW. > > Cordially, > > Fred > > Augusta County, Virginia I have been performing two simultaneous research projects: one on parasitic mites and one on supplemental feeding (results will be published soon). One of the projects may have an influence on brood formation, hence I thought that I would mention some of my findings at this time since it seems appropriate. As an introduction, I would like to state that it was my impression that nectar was the most important stimulating egg-laying factor for queens. I started my supplemental feeding program in August (as soon as the floral presence declined) and thought that queens would continue to lay on through the end of the fall but that was not the case. Egg laying activity decreased in proportion to scarcity of flowers. I thought also that perhaps length of daylight would be a predominat factor. At this time, I must confess that I still do not know which is the most important egg-laying stimulating factor, judging by my observations with my local hives in Virginia Beach. I started to see my bees bringing back pollen about the fiftenth of December and soon after the queens started laying. Today, (29 December 96), I observed brood patterns about 3-4 inches in diameter. Not bad for temperate climate on this date! Since I continued to feed a very rich feed supplement (no pollen present) and the queens stopped laying completely from the end of October to about mid December, (when I observed the first foraging of pollen) I am inclined to think that pollen must have a very strong influence on egg laying. Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virginia ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 18:44:32 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Painting the inside of a hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > >Why on earth would anyone paint the inside of a hive? The bees provide > >an excellent sealer. > > This statement is quite true but there are 2 other reasons for painting the > inside of a hive. In my case I like to paint the inside in a gloss white. > The advantages are: > > 1) It is easier to scrape and clean the inside surface if it has a hard > gloss finish. > > 2) With a light colour inside (white), it is easier to look down between the > frames to see what is happening. It works particularly well for the bottom > board. When I have lifted all the other boxes off and have only 1 brood > chamber left, I can look between the frames and see what condition the > bottom board is in. With a dark bottom board I would have to lift the brood > chamber as well before I can check the bottom board. > > The white insides of the boxes is particularly helpful when I do not have > the boxes on the hives. > When a I have a stack of boxes with empty frames, the light coloured insides > of the box makes it much easier to see what I am looking at. > > Just to complete the story (for those who want to ask), I paint the outside > a darker colour. the reasons are: > > 1) A light colour (like white) attracts the un-welcome attention of vandals > and neighbors. Dark colours help to camouflage the hives. > > 2) I do not like the glare of reflected light form light coloured boxes. > Once again it is much easier to see inside the darker space of the boxes > when you are not blinded by a glare from the a white outside. > > Regards > > Chris Allen I am thinking that while much has been said about paint colors, it seems that much of what has been said is for the convenience of the beekeeper and little in favor of what is good for the honeybees. All of us should keep in mind that honeybees have color preferences, (Re: Von Frish, et al). Definitely, forget about black! Blue is best of all! P. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virginia (USA). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 13:13:00 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Bee Space MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting posts on bee space. I have equipment from different suppliers plus some home made stuff. I looked in on three hives today and found severe burr comb between the brood box and super. I'll look at the depth of the cut the next time and take notice. Maybe some one has pin pointed what is causing the problem. I opened three hives today. It is warm and sunny in North Carolina today. I put strips on to check mites on two hives and sprinkled powdered teremicen on the top bars. One hive is a swarm I captured from my stock last year. I did not requeen it and it is rather weak. It really built up strong in the summer. It was also very aggressive today(much more so than the others). The other two have store bought queens. I'll keep a close eye on it and may requeen as soon as I can get one. I read a post recently on observation hives and how to keep the bees from qlueing the plexiglass to the body. Can someone please refresh my memory? I have plastic frames in two of the hives I opened today. It looks pretty good and I was really surprised at how easy the frames came out. The bees had not glued them together or to the hive body. I may try some in shallow surers this year. Beeing your friend Don ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 08:21:55 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Biological clock? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've commented on some of the points raised on this issue before, but perhaps it can all bear repeating. Here in Santa Barbara most colonies have brood all year. Fall simply grades into spring, that starts about late November and lasts until mid-May (if one can go by what features we consider "spring"). Right now in the mountains we have manzanita and ceanothus in bloom. Here near the coast the eucalyptus is in full swing, with much whitening of the combs. We can expect swarming season to start in a month if we get enough clear weather. In my nearly half century of experience with beekeeping in California, it seems that increases in brood rearing and swarm preparations follow an ACCELERATION of income, not the amount of income per se. I can cite an example. As migratory beekeepers in the Sacramento Valley, we first had our bees in citrus and almond orchards --- January through March. Then we moved them up into the mountains to catch the manzanita flow (it occurs much later up there than down here in Santa Barbara) and tap the buildup for package shipments to Canada and the northern states. After moving some of the bees back down to the Sacramento Valley for alfalfa pollination, we ran them back up to the 5000 foot level in early June for the spring bloom up there. Within a couple of weeks, we had to go back up to catch the high rate of swarming that occurred near the longest day of the year! We certainly didn't consider photoperiod to play a major role in any of these different circumstances. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************* * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 07:15:10 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Building Supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Any comments on configurations (Langstroth/Dadant) regarding location > of the beespace above/below the frames? Some of my woodenware appears to > have the frame tops flush with the box tops (and the beespace below the > frames,) and others have the frames recessed below the box top (with the > beespace on top of the frames.) The standard in NZ is for the bee space to be at the bottom of the frames. It has the advantage of meaning the rebate is that much smaller, meaning less likely to split. But with variations to timber, it is planned so the top of the frames is 1mm below the top of the box. But a mixture? That *would* be a mess. Here, some (most commercial) boxes are made without any sort of metal strip on the rebate (meaning the rebate is only 12mm or so). With a metal strip, it is about 6 mm more. So if you have boxes with rebates cut for use with strips, but then later remove the strips, you'd get this sort of 'up and down' for the beespace. And it would result in a heap of extra wax and propolis... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 13:23:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Edun Subject: Birds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone have an e-mail address for birds, or a "bird list". ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 13:30:34 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stuart E Grant Subject: Roundup All, Whatcom County Management has, at the instigation of the local voters association, recently decided to go back to the use of this herbicide on roadsides. The area(Point Roberts) has been exempt from roadside spraying for the past few years as it was considered an ecologically sensitive area but the Public Works folks seem to be inclined to respond quickly to this call for help. The spraying is being scheduled for June and I wonder if anyone has info on Roundups effect on Apis m. foragers or, possibly, time-of-day restrictions we can insist on? Any help appreciated. ...Stuart -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...Stuart Grant,(49degrees N; 123 degrees, 20 min W; elevation 20m; Strait of Georgia 2k; rural urban combination in temperate rainforest setting) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 13:34:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Painting Hives A few postings have mentioned good ways to paint or preserve hives. I've had great luck with piling my boxes high and then using a painting device called a "pad" - a 5" wide pad of fuzzy fabric with a handle, used, usually, for painting walls around door and window trim. It's smooth, wide and applies a nice, even thin coat of paint on the boxes. I suppose a roller might also be good and even wider but I don't like the spray and spatter rollers make and their paint delivery is not as good as this pad. I can do a 10 high stack of hives, all sides in aboaut 10 minutes with this pad. A great work saver and a fine project for winter months. Faith Andrews Bedford Tampa and Ivy, VA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 15:21:23 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Victor M. Kroenke" Subject: Re: Roundup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stuart E Grant wrote: > > All, > > Whatcom County Management has, at the instigation of the local voters > association, recently decided to go back to the use of this herbicide on > roadsides. The area(Point Roberts) has been exempt from roadside spraying > for the past few years as it was considered an ecologically sensitive > area but the Public Works folks seem to be inclined to respond quickly to > this call for help. > > The spraying is being scheduled for June and I wonder if anyone has info > on Roundups effect on Apis m. foragers or, possibly, time-of-day > restrictions we can insist on? > > Any help appreciated. > > ...Stuart > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ...Stuart Grant,(49degrees N; 123 degrees, 20 min W; elevation 20m; > Strait of Georgia 2k; rural urban combination in temperate rainforest > setting) > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Farmers in the area where I keep bees use Roundup frequently. They use it to kill weeds in fields in the spring prior to tilling for planting. Also Monsanto has developed genetically altered soybeans that are Roundup resistant. When these beans are grown the entire field is sprayed with Roundup and all weeds are killed with no ill effect on the soybeans. This is cheaper than using the customary herbicides. These beans were available last year and I expect that their use will become more widespread. I have used Roundup around my beehives for years for weed control and to keep the fronts clear of growth. As far as I know I have never killed a bee. Roundup kills plants by disabling the plants ability to draw moisture from the roots and the plant starves. I don't believe it is toxic to any animals or insects. It is neutralized on contact with soil. Round up is a very good product but somewhat expensive. 50-90 dollars a gallon for full strength agricultural use product depending on size of container. I don't think you have to worry about your bees. Vic Kroenke Kansas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 18:03:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joel W. Govostes" Subject: Re: Hot-Dipping Supers w/ Paraffin + Rosin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" <> (Thank you, Jim. So far this is the only info I have received regarding the "recipe" for the hot-dip.) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 23:24:22 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Re: THERMOSTAT FOR HONEY MELTER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 12:53 24/12/96 +0000, you wrote: >Last year I helped my mother in law make a cabinet which she uses for >warming honey and for melting wax (she is a very keen wax exhibitor). I know your In-laws very well Joe and I must say that this a splendid piece of beekeeping DIY. You listed the foil but didn't mention that it was used to line the inside of the new "lid". I thought that the original lid, apart from losing heat when lifted, also suffered melt-down of the inner plastic at melting wax temperatures. I'll have to check with Bob but wasn't the timber of the lid an off-cut of some specially constructed insulation board? By the way, my primitive 'fridge warming-cabinet is controlled by a hot water-tank thermostat which is very steady. I use two 40 watt lamps: it heats up quicker but also one lamp can just cope if the other burns out while the door is shut! Regards, =20 Glyn Davies, Ashburton. Devon. UK =20 > >We used - > >1 old freezer >1 bulb socket >1 bulb 60w >1 small lighting dimmer switch >1 battery powered LED thermometer with probe >Foil > >Apart from the freezer the other components cost about =A320. The only >disadvantage that we found with the cabinet was that it lost heat >very quickly when the lid was opened which is probably OK for warming >honey, but for smallish amounts of wax this was a problem. My father in >law solved this problem by replacing the lid of the freezer (chest >type) with a piece of timber in which he placed a lens of the sort >fitted to doors to enable someone inside a house to view somebody on >the other side. This enabled my mother in law to see whether her wax >had melted without lifting the lid of the freezer. > >A cardboard slip could be added to the dimmer to give some idea of >the temperature at different settings. > >Seasonal Greetings > >Joe Hemmens > > >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 12:32:41 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Hot-Dipping Supers w/ Paraffin + Rosin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > (Thank you, Jim. So far this is the only info I have received regarding > the "recipe" for the hot-dip.) There is a short bibliography and commentary on paraffin wax dipping on the NZ Bkpg site at: http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/biblio3.htm A neighbour has bought a scanner, so if I get the time, I'll scan one or two of the articles to put on the pages, too. Dipping is used very widely in New Zealand, both for preservative and as an aspect of AFB control. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 18:43:45 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Subject: Re: Roundup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Roundup is a very safe broadspectrum herbicide that kills both grasses and broadleaved plants. It has an LD 50 of 100 micrograms per honeybee in 48 hours,and an acute LD 50 of 5400 millegrams per kg of body weight on man, in comparison Malathion insecticide is 4100 and Fluvalinate (Apistan)=20,000, and Sevin is 4000.. There is little danger to man, wildlife or bees from a Roundup application especially since it is applied as a diluted emulsifiable concentrate and will not be tracked back to the hive like wettable powders or dusts. One may be opposed to pesticides in general but if it wasn't for Apistan, Terramycin etc we probably wouldn't have any bees.. The proper use of any chemical is essential for the most benefit. Roundup use along the highway to selectively kill unwanted weeds is an ecologically sound practice and I for one would not worry about it Regards Dan Veilleux--Columbus , Ohio USA At 01:30 PM 12/30/96 EST, you wrote: >All, > >Whatcom County Management has, at the instigation of the local voters >association, recently decided to go back to the use of this herbicide on >roadsides. The area(Point Roberts) has been exempt from roadside spraying >for the past few years as it was considered an ecologically sensitive >area but the Public Works folks seem to be inclined to respond quickly to >this call for help. > >The spraying is being scheduled for June and I wonder if anyone has info >on Roundups effect on Apis m. foragers or, possibly, time-of-day >restrictions we can insist on? > >Any help appreciated. > >...Stuart >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- >...Stuart Grant,(49degrees N; 123 degrees, 20 min W; elevation 20m; >Strait of Georgia 2k; rural urban combination in temperate rainforest >setting) >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ > > Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: montgomery.1@osu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 19:41:20 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Bee Space MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Donald V Israel wrote: > I read a post recently on observation hives and how to keep the bees > from qlueing the plexiglass to the body. Can someone please refresh my > memory? I was told you could us petroleum jelly on the glass edge where it meets the wood. Also use a hair dryer if needed to heat the glass for easy removal. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 19:50:54 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Birds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jinnah Edun wrote: > > Does anyone have an e-mail address for birds, or a "bird list". For newsgroups see: rec.pets.birds rec.birds or for listserv go to: http://tile.net/listserv/wildbird.html -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 20:17:09 -0600 Reply-To: bbirkey@interaccess.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: Birkey.Com Subject: Re: Birds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jinnah Edun wrote: > > Does anyone have an e-mail address for birds, or a "bird list". Here is the URL of a web page that lists newslists for different varieties of birds. http://www.upatsix.com/other/mailing_lists.html Here is a URL for an avian vet who is willing to answer questions for FREE (about any pet as well as birds): http://webcom.com:80/~pets/austins/vet/vet002.html e-mail: maustin@igateway.com Another (general practice) vet on the net: http://www.igateway.com/mall/pets/vetbest/index.htm More bird-related URL's: http://www.upatsix.com/ http://www.beaches.net/birdcity/ http://www.petbird.com/ http://www.mindspring.com/~mintz/coverpg.html http://www.BIRDSRUS.com/ http://seaborg.nmu.edu/cw/parrot/bird.html http://www.lafeber.com/ http://theaviary.com/ http://www.petvetnet.com/Avian.html That ought to keep you busy for awhile! -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA bbirkey@interaccess.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 17:03:18 -1000 Reply-To: "Thomas W. Culliney -- Dept. of Agriculture" Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney -- Dept. of Agriculture" Subject: Viral transmission through honey bee semen In-Reply-To: <9612232324.AA70389@msp.masterpack.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Here's a question for those pathologically-minded bee students out there. We know that some honey bee viruses have been found in various tissues, including the ovaries, thus suggesting that bee viruses may be transmitted by the queen transovarially (i.e., via the eggs) to offspring. Have there been any reports of bee viruses being detected in drone semen? Such finds should greatly concern quarantine officials in those countries and US states, such as Hawaii, that prohibit importation of living honey bees, but permit entry of semen. Tom Culliney Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 22:34:19 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David E. Pritchard" <102361.222@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Painting the inside of a hive Just a note for thought. If the paint that is used inside the box is of exterior grade, it likely contains fungicides. Some years back (not too many - 15 +/- ?!) mercuric acetate was often used. If this can (?) be spread to the propolis, wax and honey - we all know the rest of the story. I don't know what is commonly used now or if it would present a problem. Dave P / NJ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 00:46:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Roundup SEG>The spraying is being scheduled for June and I wonder if anyone has info >on Roundups effect on Apis m. foragers or, possibly, time-of-day >restrictions we can insist on? The real question is what it will do for your bee pasture, and all bee pasture. Many places in the US are under such intense cultivation that the only thing left for any kind of bees during dearth's and between cutting of hay is what they can glean along the side the road. Roundup will turn a one time lush profusion of wild flower pasture into a desert. You will also find that when you give permission for one chemical that in time they will switch to another and forget to notify the public that sometimes will do great damage to the environment. A better alternative to any public roadside spraying is cutting or mowing. If total costs of treatments are considered it can also be cost effective compared to chemical treatments. One good law suit can wipe out any saving the chemical salesman present to government boards. ttul Andy- --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ #include ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 02:29:33 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the replys to my observation hive. Earlier I sent a post saying I put test strips on two hievs to check for varroa. I put a trap on the bottom board of the strongest hive and just before dark I pulled it out and there they were and a lot of them. I will order strips and treat all hives this week since the temp is soppused to be unseasonally high. I may be lucky there is not too much brood and we are about three or four weeks from brood rearing. I treated in early Aug for four weeks. Comments and suggestions please. Don Hibbist 6 hives plus brothers three ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 01:31:13 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stuart E Grant Subject: Re: Roundup You... It is >neutralized on contact with soil. >Round up is a very good product but somewhat expensive. 50-90 dollars >a >gallon for >full strength agricultural use product depending on size of container. >I don't think you have to worry about your bees. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks Vic. I was quite concerned and you helped. I had to kill a lawn last September and had applied roundup. The lawn was covered in Dandelions and with all my best efforts I couldn't avoid spraying a lot of bees. The honeyflow hereabouts in June is R. procerus/discolor which is the king of weeds and unlikely to be effected much by the roundup but I thought the bees might suffer. ...Stuart -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...Stuart Grant,(49degrees N; 123 degrees, 20 min W; elevation 20m; Strait of Georgia 2k; rural urban combination in temperate rainforest setting) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Vic Kroenke >Kansas, USA > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 01:36:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Janet Montgomery & Dan Veilleux Subject: Re: Roundup/roadsides Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I seriously doubt that the whole roadside will be sprayed as Roundup is a general vegetation killer and would open the roadside to severe erosion -- I suspect that the roundup will be used around guard rails, traffic signs and the like to ease mowing and trimming labor. I agree that roadsides can provide the only forage in some areas as I keep my bees in a heavily farmed corn/soybean cropping system.. Of greater concern would be 24d spraying that would remove the broadleaved plants from the roadsides. Dan Veilleux Columbus , Ohio USA At 12:46 AM 12/31/96 GMT, you wrote: >SEG>The spraying is being scheduled for June and I wonder if anyone has info > >on Roundups effect on Apis m. foragers or, possibly, time-of-day > >restrictions we can insist on? > >The real question is what it will do for your bee pasture, and all bee >pasture. Many places in the US are under such intense cultivation that >the only thing left for any kind of bees during dearth's and between >cutting of hay is what they can glean along the side the road. > >Roundup will turn a one time lush profusion of wild flower pasture into >a desert. You will also find that when you give permission for one >chemical that in time they will switch to another and forget to notify >the public that sometimes will do great damage to the environment. > >A better alternative to any public roadside spraying is cutting or >mowing. If total costs of treatments are considered it can also be >cost effective compared to chemical treatments. One good law suit >can wipe out any saving the chemical salesman present to government >boards. > ttul Andy- >--- > ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ #include > > Janet Montgomery 104 Fallis Road Columbus, Ohio 43214-3724 Home: (614) 784-8334 FAX: (614) 268-3107 E-mail: montgomery.1@osu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 09:17:23 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: Signing off BEE-L In-Reply-To: <32BB0D73.6FD7@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <32BB0D73.6FD7@earthlink.net>, dvisrael writes >I'M signing off Bee-L. I am interested in bees, Not evolution, >flames, spelling or any other hang ups people have. There are some >really good discussions out there but too much trash. > There are a lot of out there that need a >lesson in brevity also. > >Bee seeing you on the news net I feel exactly the same - it's a long time since I've read so much wooly rubbish. However, I intend to persevere in the hope of finding the odd silk purse amongst the pigs' ears. -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 09:47:07 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: Ventilation: How much is enough? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 In message , Jerry Fries writes >In regards to ventilation,A lot of ventilation is >not good Although the climate here in the UK is not as regularly severe as elsewhere, there has been much successful experiment recently with completely open mesh-covered floors with increased top insulation. I will try to find some references to published info. Also, I intend to try them out myself this year. -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 09:43:05 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: A PLEA FOR BREVITY In-Reply-To: <199612310636.BAA12395@iwaynet.iwaynet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Suggested New Year's resolution for all contributors..... PLEASE don't quote the whole of the messsage to which you are replying. Remember, a few seconds' pruning on your part will save us all valuable time. Try to keep your basic reply to a single page - remember this is a DISCUSSION group not a speech-writing school - and put any lengthy stuff at the end, clearly marked as such. Happy New Merry -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:10:03 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: Paint or oil? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 In message , Jerry Fries writes >Im not sure exactly what it means but in your reply about paint vs oil you >mentioned most hives are white. Probably so, mine are because it just seems >to fit no other reason. Brother Adam's hives are salmon pink, I understand from his biography. -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. UK. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:21:23 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: Varroa treatment In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 In message , "Roger W Burns (St Thomas' Surgery)" writes >I am a new addressee, who has been initiated into beekeeping by my two >teenage sons. >We have Apistan solution as Klartan, bought in France 2y ago. >How do we prepare to treat our bees? What dilution is needed? >We live in West Wales (pembrokeshire). I STRONGLY suggest that you get in contact with your local Bee-Keepers' Association. They will be best able to advise on local conditions, climatic considerations etc. etc. Chemical treatment for varroa is only likely to be effective if co-ordinated between local bee-keepers, otherwise you may increase resistance. Mail me again if you need contacts or addresses. -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. UK. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:28:42 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Hemmens Subject: Re: Ventilation: How much is enough? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello Alyn > In regards to ventilation,A lot of > ventilation is >not good Although the climate here in the UK is not > as regularly severe as elsewhere, there has been much successful > experiment recently with completely open mesh-covered floors with > increased top insulation. I will try to find some references to > published info. Also, I intend to try them out myself this year. I have Wintered my bees with mesh floors the last couple of years and they haven't objected. Hereabouts damp is supposed to be more of a problem than cold. I have heard the opinion expressed that open floors may slow Spring build-up due to reduced temperature. Joe Hemmens Cornwall UK. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 08:33:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: Roundup Research carried out in Australia several years ago showed that roundup (glysophate) did not affect honeybees. Hence it was safe to use around beehives. There is one side effect in that there is a build up of resistance of several weeds in Australia to glysophate. Research on this is currently being carried out. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 08:39:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: Biological clock My experience here in Australia is that the egg laying of the queen is basically driven by nectar, and to a minor degree pollen,coming in the front door. Queens can go off the lay but shift the hive onto better conditions e.g. nectar, and the queens commence to lay straight away. Photoperiod can play a part where once the shortest day has gone there seems to be a response. However, shifting bees onto a good honey flow a month or so before the shortest day will induce the queens to lay and even produce drones. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 08:45:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Roundup Of course Roundup is safe isn't it manufactured by one of the same corporations that told us that agent orange was safe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 13:19:25 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alyn W. Ashworth" Subject: Re: Ventilation: How much is enough? In-Reply-To: <199612311131.LAA00859@saturn.ndirect.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Joe - thanks for the comments..... >I have Wintered my bees with mesh floors the last couple of years and >they haven't objected. Hereabouts damp is supposed to be more of a >problem than cold. I have heard the opinion expressed that open >floors may slow Spring build-up due to reduced temperature. What flavour of hives are you using? I'm on modified commercial. My master plan is to build some nice floors that allow slide-in units to help varroa detection and will let me swap between open mesh and solid floors at will. Do you have any experience with anything like this. Cheers, -- Alyn W. Ashworth Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. UK. (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:44:26 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Re: Signing off BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alyn W. Ashworth wrote: > > In message <32BB0D73.6FD7@earthlink.net>, dvisrael > writes > >I'M signing off Bee-L. > > > I feel exactly the same - it's a long time since I've read so much wooly > rubbish. However, I intend to persevere in the hope of finding the odd > silk purse amongst the pigs' ears. Thanks. I got over my bad hair day and stayed with it. Sure am glad I did. don > Alyn W. Ashworth > Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. > (but I don't speak on their bee-half) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:04:28 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: Re: Ventilation: How much is enough? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alyn W. Ashworth wrote: slide-in units to > help varroa detection and will let me swap between open mesh and solid > floors at will. Do you have any experience with anything like this. > > Cheers, > -- > Alyn W. Ashworth > Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. UK. > (but I don't speak on their bee-half) I bought a slide in unit for varroa detection. It is a white plastic pan with plastic mesh(wood bound). It fits on the bottom board and the bees have room to get in and out. From discussions on ventilation over the past few days it seems right to leave it in all winter.I take it out after I mind dead mites. Comments please. Beeing your friend Don ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 09:19:05 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Wood Subject: Re: Roundup In-Reply-To: ; from "Trevor Weatherhead" at Dec 31, 96 8:33 am One oldtime beekeeper I know said that he didn't like Roundup because of the collateral root kill damage to surrounding trees/shrubs that he wanted. He used something called "blue vitriol" or "Prussic acid" by dipping his machete or a knife in the substance and cutting the bark of the tree. He said it worked slowly but surely and got rid of undesired trees/shrubs. Does anyone know if there are problems with this? I'd canvass/information gather before doing it myself. for what it's worth- Phil Wood ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:28:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Griggs Subject: Re: Roundup In-Reply-To: <9612311519.AA06040@psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu.psyc.missouri.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Actually using an ax frill with point source introduction of selective herbicide one can selectively cull unwanted plant species. The only real problem might arrise if the plant is clonal and often the species within an area can have root grafts which will allow the herbicide to spread killing trees in a group when only an outerr one was targeted. Frill the tree or sapling leaving a very unclean ax frill, sprqay in the mixture of roundup, or other herbicide to thouroughly soak the area limiting runnoff. Allow it to stand and the roundup will be translocated to the roots and kill the unwanted tree/shrub. This can be very effective and actully reduce the amount of herbicide that would be used in a broadcast spray. Check Journal of arboriculture for further info. This was popular in the seventies and is probably still in use in right-of-ways and for culling woodlot trees. Mike >One oldtime beekeeper I know said that he didn't like >Roundup because of the collateral root kill damage to surrounding >trees/shrubs that he wanted. He used something called >"blue vitriol" or "Prussic acid" by dipping his machete or >a knife in the substance and cutting the bark of the tree. >He said it worked slowly but surely and got rid of undesired >trees/shrubs. Does anyone know if there are problems with >this? I'd canvass/information gather before doing it >myself. >for what it's worth- Phil Wood ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:52:02 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Re: Roundup and Dandelions Stuart, You did WHAT to dandelions???? Around here, dandelions are the first spring flower that the bees build up on. Last spring, it rained all the way through dandelion bloom, and lots of my hives died out. This year, I'm planting dandelions in all my neighbor's lawns!! (grin!) Gerry and the other Visels at Visel7@juno.com Winnebago, Illinois, USA (75 miles northwest of Chicago) On Tue, 31 Dec 1996 01:31:13 EST Stuart E Grant writes: >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Thanks Vic. I was quite concerned and you helped. I had to kill a lawn >last September and had applied roundup. The lawn was covered in >Dandelions and with all my best efforts I couldn't avoid spraying a lot >of bees. The honeyflow hereabouts in June is R. procerus/discolor which >is the king of weeds and unlikely to be effected much by the roundup >but I thought the bees might suffer. > >...Stuart >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >...Stuart Grant,(49degrees N; 123 degrees, 20 min W; elevation 20m; >Strait of Georgia 2k; rural urban combination in temperate rainforest >setting) > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >>Vic Kroenke >>Kansas, USA >> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 08:40:35 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kay Lancaster Subject: Re: Roundup and Dandelions In-Reply-To: <19961231.095010.6551.0.visel7@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 31 Dec 1996, Gerry Visel wrote: > You did WHAT to dandelions???? Around here, dandelions are the first > spring flower that the bees build up on. Last spring, it rained all the > way through dandelion bloom, and lots of my hives died out. This year, > I'm planting dandelions in all my neighbor's lawns!! (grin!) You might want to consider willows, also... I used to see the bees working those even before the dandelions in Iowa. Kay Lancaster kay@fern.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:39:30 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Geographic Location MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a friendly :) reminder, although the point has been raised before. Could you folks who don't say where you are physically located add a "sig" or something to let the rest of us know where you are? I, for one, in my maturing years, have trouble remembering where everyone is. HAPPY NEW YEAR! Al -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham - Scituate,MA,USA - Alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 12:42:23 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Varroa treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu wrote: > > I am a new addressee, who has been initiated into beekeeping by my two > teenage sons. > We have Apistan solution as Klartan, bought in France 2y ago. > How do we prepare to treat our bees? What dilution is needed? > We live in West Wales (pembrokeshire). > > -- > Roger W Burns (St Thomas' Surgery) Dear Mr. Burns: I have known Klartan since the early 80's when it was introduced in Spain from Germany (at that time I was doing research on pesticides for my doctoral thesis in Spain). I don't have much faith in the use of pesticides at any place near bees therefor I don't use any with my bees. Also, I have used it in the form of Apistan, and the Varroa continue to fourish like if it wasn't there! Becasue of the above reasons I started doing research with several other subtances and compounds, especially those that do not contaminate or kill the bees! I can PROUDLY claim that I have developed a method that kills Varroa and HTM's. I will make my findings known at the 54th Annual Convention of The American Beekeeping Federation coming January 15-18, 1996. I can assure you that after that you can FORGET Klartan and the like. Some of the other Bee-L participants who use Apistan type commercial applications will probably give you advice on how to use your present stock until the near future. Happy new Year. Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, Virginia 23454 dronebee@norfolk.infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 16:38:53 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Lining BEES Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jim Moore wrote: > Years ago I read an article concerning beelining. I have yet to >try this technique myself and I am recalling the basics from memory. The >technique included the idea of triangulating the bee lines. Basically >after you have sufficient bees in the box to let one go and set a line >of site. Set a sight line by placing a pole with a stick pointing in the etc. Earlier I wrote that one can receive a copy of our late review paper on the subject of beelining, as follows: RE: > 1992 Wenner, A.M., J.E. Alcock, and D.E. Meade. Efficient hunting of >feral colonies. BEE SCIENCE 2:64-70. However, I need a mailing address to send it, because it is too long a document to provide over e-mail. Please reply to me individually, not over the BEE-L network. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************* * "The difference between real and unreal things is that unreal things * * usually last much longer." Pot-Shots #6728 * * Copyright, Ashleigh Brilliant --- used with permission * ************************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 13:22:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MR MARK G SPAGNOLO Subject: Spring! Just a quick note on the last day of the year. Spring has arrived in Hawaii! Last week we had over six inches of rain, which kicked Spring into high gear. The coffee will bloom by this weekend. The green sapote is in full bloom. A few of the macadamia nut trees have blossoms. The forty hives I have at my house are quickly building. They average eight full frames of brood. Here at Kona Queen we have moved all of our hives out of the Winter locations. The eucalyptus was good this year and the lehua was not bad either. We have plans to being our first queen graft of the year on January 9. The drone populations look excellent, with many queens never pulling out of the drone comb at all this Winter. We should have our first queens in early February. A quick reminder to anyone planning on purchasing queens this Spring.. . The demand is incredible. I have already sold our entire production of queens between February 1 and June 1. The waiting list for "extra" queens is over sixty names. I am certain that most other queen breeders are in the same position. Well, I have to go string up the firecrackers for tonight's celebration. Hope you all have a good New Year's and are looking forward to Spring! Mark on the Big Island of Hawaii! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:07:30 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: D Warr Subject: Re: Painting the inside of a hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:26 30/12/1996 +1000, you wrote: > >1) A light colour (like white) attracts the un-welcome attention of vandals >and neighbors. Dark colours help to camouflage the hives. > Rhodesian Hives were always camoflaged with army style disruptive patterning during their war of independance - why I dont know but as the africans knew about the Honey Guide bird it seemed somewhat superfluous > >Regards > >David Warr Warrington England Outdoor temp 31 Dec 12 noon is about 5degrees C. > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 16:17:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Carl H. Powell" Subject: Re: BEES AND BEELINING To George in Vermont: Hi! I just got done reading your post about that bee box and how you accomplish this. I have a friend in Norfolk who has a small wood shop and is very good at making things wooden as well as being a beekeeper himself. I was wondering if you could possibly send me a picture of one of your boxes (or even a photocopy of one if you don't have a picture, some copiers are very good with 'objects' these days). I am going to try to talk 'Woody' into making one for display at our Assoc. We have a group who regularly track and capture swarms and locate and mark feral colonies. Here is my snail mail address: Carl Powell 214 #69 Wythe Creek Rd. Poquoson, Va. 23662 BTW, what is your e-mail address? Carl Powell Watchman @qwick.net ... Forrest Gump: Silence is a virtue known to all mute men. ps. Hi again, Looking back over my hardcopy I found your address in the quoted part of the headers. I usually look in the signature first.... :-) Cp ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 15:35:19 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Biological clock In-Reply-To: from "Trevor Weatherhead" at Dec 31, 96 08:39:14 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: Nectar can stimulate a queen's egg-laying, but she has to be in a physiological state that allows this to happen. In our chambers, simply providing nectar during the fall (when daylength has been decreasing) will not turn a queen's egg-laying back on. It may stimulate a queen that is still laying. We suspect photoperiod or some other factor acts like an on/off switch. Nectar can speed things up, but can't turn on the response. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 08:50:31 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mauricio Montes Castillo Subject: Re: biological clock? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 04:01 29/12/96 -0400, Stan wrote: >...I also am curious as to what the situation is with bees in other= locations >where there may not be a winter. If there is a dry and wet season do the >bees start to raise a lot of brood in the period of nectar shortage at the >end of the dry season so that they will be strong when the flowers pop= after >the wet season starts? Someone in the southern US once posted that their >main flow was in the fall with not too much before that. I wonder if their >bees still built up like mad in the spring the way ours do here, or whether >it was delayed. Even in tropical/sub-tropical location such as Australia and Mexico, there is a variation in temperature throughout the year (SEASONS) and the amount of day-light the plants and the bees get. The combination of all these environmental factors make the=20 brood built up... But probably the most important in tropical/subtropical places (own experience) is the rain and humidity in the environment. No mater how long or warm your day is, most nectar producer plants will not grow or bloom without moisture. As soon as the first rain comes, the bees start to develop the brood nest. The bees have evolved through centuries to chatch up rigth on time for the nectar flow. As a result of time and environment presure (to avoid the words "natural selection" and "evolution" ), they carry genes well adapted to their particular environment. What happens when you move bees from a particular place to another with diferent environmental conditions? After only 5 generations, (Nick's story of French bees) and if open mating assumed, the imported bees only keep 1/32 of the original genes of the imported population. May be well adapted after that. Most "bad" genes are gone, but still some remain in "in case of emergency". Diverse patrilines (several fathers/drones) in the population play an important role. The more diverse the colony is, the better their chances of surviving. Bees are multitask as individuals and as a colony. They are to perform in diverse environmental conditions even in one location. That is why poor mated queens (not enough patrilines) head weak colonies. Feliz A=F1o Nuevo 1997!!!! Mauricio :) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:07:40 -0600 Reply-To: dvisrael@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald V Israel Subject: alive varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a previous post, i mentioned that I treated and checked for varroa yesterday. I took the insert out last evening and dumped most of the mites out. Today a neighbor was over and we were discussing bees. He wanted to see a mite so I picked up the tray hoping to see a dead mite or so. Well, what I found was a live mite. What makes them fall off the bees and how long do the little suckers live after they fall off? Thanks, Don PS: Dr. Pedro, I expect you have the answer. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 16:25:11 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Biological clock In-Reply-To: from "Trevor Weatherhead" at Dec 31, 96 08:39:14 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Skinner sent me a message asking about the need for pollen as a protein source. Certainly, protein is needed to sustain brood. In dearths, bees may cannabalize brood or use their own body materials to keep some of the brood going. I suspect also that the queen needs an adequate pollen supply. Again, the literature and practical experience says that the quality of the diet is essential for producing viable brood. We have done some experimentation along these lines. I'm not sure that we still have an artificial diet that is as complete as that provided by nectar and fresh pollen. Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu P.S. Moisture may play a big role in the tropics, but in our desert areas, the moisture used by deep rooted plants may be from past precipitation - and humidity is often very low. In other words, I moisture affects nectar availability, but only indirectly the queen. Under very dry conditions and without access to water, dehydration of brood can be a problem. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 18:35:45 -0800 Reply-To: alwine@dreamcom.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Spring! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MR MARK G SPAGNOLO wrote: > > Just a quick note on the last day of the year. Spring has arrived in > Hawaii! Aarrrgh! Z&%#$*Z(P You really know how to make us northern folk feel good. Supposed to be about 10 or less here around Boston, Massachusetts, USA tonight. Had to spend all day suiting up the girls in their little heater suits! -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Al Needham - Scituate,MA,USA - Alwine@dreamcom.net * * >"The HoneyBee"-An Educational Software Program V1.0< * * Available from Sweden at: Http://www.kuai.se/~beeman/ * * Visit this site for close-up photos of Honey Bees at * * work and see how Honey is processed. * * " Version 2.0 coming in '97'.....stay tuned in! " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 21:32:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Steve.Reddick" Organization: Home Subject: Candy boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Beeliners: I am looking for directions on how to make the candy for a board candy. Can anyone help? Ontario Canada ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 17:11:18 -0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry Fries Subject: Re: A PLEA FOR BREVITY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Suggested New Year's resolution for all contributors..... > >PLEASE don't quote the whole of the messsage to which you are replying. > >Remember, a few seconds' pruning on your part will save us all valuable >time. Try to keep your basic reply to a single page - remember this is a >DISCUSSION group not a speech-writing school - and put any lengthy stuff >at the end, clearly marked as such. > >Happy New Merry >-- >Alyn W. Ashworth >Lancashire & North-West Bee-Keepers' Association. >(but I don't speak on their bee-half) Yes Sir. Jerry Fries ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 21:29:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dick Hill Subject: Re: A PLEA FOR BREVITY ok - Dick Hill ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 23:24:55 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: biological clock? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well I'm sitting here on New Years Eve and rereading all the postings on "biological clock?" and I've got to say you are the most interesting group of people I ever "spent" New Years eve with! For a biological clock to exist the bees have to make a decision (brood rearing is the one we are considering) that is independent of an environmental stimulus. Some of the postings have hinted at that, but others haven't. For example we had a couple of postings from Virginia that either nectar or pollen coming in stimulated brood rearing. And Adrian posted from California that acceleration of incoming stores stimulated brood rearing. Even here (Prince Edward Island, 45N) brood rearing will increase when stores are coming in or if the bees are given stimulative feeding, but the broodless period has ended months earlier in the coldest part of the year with nothing coming in and maybe when the photoperiod has started to increase, but maybe BEFORE the photoperiod has started to increase, according to a study Allen mentioned (which actually killed two hives each week to look which is something few of the bee-loving people on this list would be prepared to do). I would consider it evidence supporting the possibility of a biological clock if the bees were anticipating a flow before it had started (or anticipating spring). Bob in Hawaii wrote: >When I was keeping Caucasian bees in California the queens prety much quit >laying in October. Here in Hawaii they do not quit at all. They slow down around >September or October and stqrt their buildup in November or December so they are >reqdy for the Lehua flow that begins in January. The pollen comes in every day >and so does a little honey. These bees seem to be anticipating the Lehua flow long before stores are coming in. And Nick's fable would also indicate that the bees were building up to utilize flows before they were getting environmental input that a flow was coming. I wish that Mauricio in Queensland had said that the bees started building in the dry season BEFORE the wet comes, but he said at the first rain they started building. Although this is anticipating the flow before it comes, the environmental clue (rain) is obvious. Jerry seemed to discount humidity as being a major factor in brood rearing (in favour of photoperiod) but Allen Dick (private communication) said that when humidity rose in indoor wintering brood rearing increased. This is a rather interesting similarity between Alberta and Queensland. I know of two methods that are often used when experiments are done on the biological clocks of other organisms. One method is sometimes to transport the animals to a place where the biological clock would be out of sync. Nick's fable would be that kind of experiment. Another has happened regularly with the packages of NZ and OZ bees shipped to the northern hemisphere. At first glance that seems to conflict with what Jerry mentioned about shifts in photoperiod having to be under 15 minutes per day for them to have effect (i.e. great photoperiod change but queens get into high gear quickly). However, in thinking about this a bit more I have realized that it is not a very fair experiment, as those queens are probably young and fresh out of nucs and have not had a brood rearing slowdown to come out of. Another method is to put the animals in an artificial environment with controlled environment and see how their behaviour changes. Maybe Jerry's flight control rooms are something like that, I'm not sure. I think that in many of the environmentally controlled indoor wintering setups that the bees still have an outside entrance and can get light clues. I would love to know whether the bees which wintered under sods as someone described recently had built up in anticipation of spring. I'm not sure, but I think it probable that bees overwintered here in cellars in the past would have started brood rearing in the dark. If not I would not think they would be much good here where spring arrives so suddenly. I wish a happy and healthy New Year to all of you and to your bees. Stan -- End --