========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:00:41 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: mineral oil files MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Friends: As you will have/will be reading shortly, Barry Birkey has graciously volunteered to convert my files to a format accessible to most users (I would hope all) and posted the results on his web page from where they may be accessed. I have tried to send these files to all who have asked me for them, however, I may not have had time to answer all the requests. My most sincere apologies. In the end, this may be an advantage to you because Barry has done a wonderful job of converting the files and has improved the quality of the diagrams tremendously. Hence the delay may be to your benefit. Those interested (and I recommend that even those who have obtained the files previously) should visit Barry's page at : http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/mineraloil.html In the meantime, I'll always be available to answer questions regarding the files post or the state of my ongoing work with FGMO. Please do not hesitate to write for information or to provide me input (input is very much welcome and appreciated). Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:09:53 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Grain Bag Inner Covers In-Reply-To: <19970921.210034.10254.2.bbannon@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > ... it shows the use of grain bag inner covers. It appears that they > are easily and quietly removed. Canvas or burlap are popular inner covers, along with plastic sheets. They have the advantage that they do not permit building of ladder comb on th top bars, and do provide a good seal --- along with a way to 'peek' at the bees by pulling back one corner. We've uesed all these methods and prefer them to rigid inner covers, since they require no scraping and are easy to tote around. Also search under 'hive mats'. Allen --- You can check the BEE-L archives by sending email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SEARCH BEE-L topic Substitute a key word or two for the word 'topic' above Try it -- You'll Like it! --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:46:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Top Ventilation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 A regular subject for this time of the year. Clearly wintering in Alaska= is very different from that in Florida. I sspeak only for that part of t= he world where winter consists of intermittent periodsof sub-zero weather, periods of rain and the occasional sunny day when the bees can take a cleansing flight. Under these conditions I do not consider top ventilati= on to be important providing there is plenty at the bottom. = >>>>>I heard recently that hive ventilation is most important and that th= e hives should be properly ventilated even if this means that a strong current of= air is blowing through them. I was also told that when the Autumn (Fall) feeding is over, that I should raise the crown boards slightly with match= sticks to give additional ventilation.>>>>>> With regard to the above quote, a wooden matchstick is around three thirt= y seconds of an inch thick. This gap all round the top of the hive amounts= to some six square inches of gap, a considerable "chimney". No great ha= rm if your hives are well sheltered but if exposed to winter gales the bees will shiver, many will die and food consumption increase. During September the bees glue down the cover board. If I leave an inverted can feeder over the feed hole empty for more than a day the bee= s start to seal all the holes. Place a piece of hessian or metal mesh over= the feed hole and it will be quickly seaded with propolis. It would appe= ar that the bees are saying "No top ventilation, please." I prefer top insulation to ventilation but all my colonies have at least twelve square= inches of bottom ventilation and they winter well. When one considers the diversity of advice offered, beekeepers appear to = be happy with a very wide range of conditions, lots of ventilation or a little, at the top or the bottom or both and the bees come through smilin= g whatever method is chosen. Sid P. = ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 18:26:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Gulliver-Honey Bees-Software Program For Beekeeprs Ken Morris is a Beekeeper in Western Australia who is also an entertaining writer. If you would enjoy a really fun story - go to my Web Site on Honey Bees: http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/beesite.htm Click on the "Gulliver's Travails" button..read his very entertaining story and then click on the picture at the bottom of the page to visit his site where you can find out about a software program for Beekeepers. Al, ----------------------------------------------------------- awneedham@juno.com - Scituate,MA,USA Cerberus - Three Sites In One Honey Bees-LottoLand-Doktor Finkle http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:19:59 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Bee Bio Diversity Hi all Some interesting things I noted in this thread were to do with bee biodiversity and the need for fresh gene inflow into the US etc. It mentioned that a queen that mated with her close relatives etc (ie her own drones) would have a bad laying pattern and would not be very successful, as there would be many holes in the hives. With the introduction of the AHB to Brazil and the rest of the america's it appears that a total of 6 hives wwere left in brazil. That would mean that there were about 6 mated queens, each with say lines of twenty different drones in them (being optimistic) so that makes the genetic input of 126 individuals in the african honey bee population of the area. Has anybody with experience with AHB in these areas found bad laying patterns? The other things here as well is how often workers lay eggs of drones. Beekeepers that I know that keep AHB upcountry of us say that they frequently find a few drone cells above the excluder. That would theoretically increase the number of drone types being produced by a hive? On the topic of inner cover boards, something that I quite like for this purpose is corrugated plastic. It does not break and is cheap and does not gum up as bees cant get stuff to stick to it very well. Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Kamdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800ml annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 3rd year Biochemistry/Microbiology Rhodes University In general, generalisations are bad. Interests: Flii's and Bees. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:45:09 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "THONE HUGO VE144 (240)9452" Subject: Re: Health risk from raw honey? In-Reply-To: <199709191626.MAA26507@segwun.muskoka.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > So if I use pasturised honey for health remedies it > would be a waste of time ? yep, that's what we pretend here in europe. I wander what to tell our clients about solving honey in hot tea ? ;?) +++++ Hugo Thone (SE144) (\ {|||8- ALCATEL TELECOM (/ F.Wellesplein 1 B-2018 Antwerp do bee do bee do .... email : thoneh@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 fax : (32) 3 240 99 50 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:25:14 -0400 Reply-To: ajwelk@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Welk Subject: Re: Hive Ventilation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Computer Software Solutions Ltd wrote: > > Hi All > > I am a new beekeeper living just outside Dublin Ireland > > I heard recently that hive ventilation is most important and that the hives > should be properly ventilated even if this means that a strong current of > air is blowing through them. I was also told that when the Autumn (Fall) > feeding is over, that I should raise the crown boards slightly with match > sticks to give additional ventilation. > > What do experienced beekeepers recommend?. > > Thanks for any help > > Sincerely > > Tom Barrett > 49 South Park > Foxrock > Dublin 18 > Ireland > > e mail: cssl@iol.ie I keep a stick under my telescopic cover most of the warm season. Some hives I have a slotted frame between the inner cover and the telescopic cover to aid with ventilation. Al Welk, Atlanta, GA, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:31:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Re: Pulling Honey--Methods Comments: To: dpbees@slkc1.slkc.uswest.net I saw an operation where honey supers bees and all with the use of a bee net worked very well for increases. Upon arrival to the 40 by 120 honey house all the supers are placed at one end with a 10 by 10 window at the other end by the enterance. At the end of three days the supers are bee free.Their were also 20 one gallon feeders in front of the window to sustain them till making up the nucs. Oh,make sure you have queens for however many nucs you want to make up. Take Care and GBY,John in Homestead,also at On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:22:58 -0700 Derk Phelps writes: >Hi, >We are stuck with a dilema, What to use to pull our honey. We have >about 350-400 colonies and the work is done by two people. We have >been >using a blower and gone back to Bee-go. Bee-go smells BAD and will not >work in less than perfect weather conditions. Blower is too slow and >physically draining. > >A good year we pull 20 ton. > >Any ideas? suggestions? > >Help and advice would be greatly appreciated. > >Please email me directly, Thanks > >Derk Phelps >Phelps Honey Farm >dpbees@slkc.uswest.net > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:16:03 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Pulling Honey--Methods In-Reply-To: <19970922.221433.12326.0.hallelujah.honey.co@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I saw an operation where honey super bees and all ... worked very well > for increases.... We have done this and still continue to do so, but I am not certain of the value of the bees that come from the supers. Seems they tend to be pretty old and don't contribute as well as one might think to increasing the brood in the nuc, and although we do add plenty of these bees to splits we keep in the yard for that purpose, the resulting hives never seem to do as well as the large populations would indicate -- either in terms of honey getting, or in wintering Nevertheless, it is a good idea, and we continue to do it. The nucs do come along faster than they would on their own, and do forage well. One of the reasons we put these bees to use is we would find it hard to just kill or hose those bees that ride along with the honey down the drain like some beekeepers do. Allen --- You can check the BEE-L archives by sending email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SEARCH BEE-L topic Substitute a key word or two for the word 'topic' above Try it -- You'll Like it! --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:07:17 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Inner Covers In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > For cold climates it is advantageous to use an inner cover which > incorporates an inch of styrofoam between two layers of plywood... > (why do people use burlap anyway? ) I'm glad you asked, 'cause I'm ready to answer that one. This afternoon I was out pulling the last supers from 80 or so colonies. Beautiful day (26 degrees Celcius) and the bees abandoned beautifully in an hour or so. As I was doing this job, I had a chance to evaluate several treatments: 1.) Telescoping lid with no inner cover 2.) Telescoping lid with burlap, and 3.) Telescoping lid with our new pillows (discussed previously and details available with a search using 'pillow' as a key. We no longer use inner covers made of plywood in summer since they are a whole lot of extra work scraping and handling -- and they do nothing for us in the summer. In winter some hives do use plywood inner covers inside the wraps, but we do hate hauling them around and using them. Treatment 1 works fine, but the lids do get glued down -- bee space or no bee space -- and we have to scrape 2,000 lids once or twice a year -- expensive in labour! Treatment 2 works well, the hive is kept from drafts in spring and is easily inspected. There is no need to scrape burr comb from the top of brood frames, since it causes no sealing problems. Lids come off easily and once scraped, need never be scraped again. However burlap does get chewed by the bees and is hard to fold unless you just let it hang down -- in which case it looks kinda shabby. The good seal and lack of scraping is the justification for using burlap. Treatment 3 is new to us this year, and so far the best -- with all the advantages of burlap since we have a cover that will accommodate a grease patty or whatever without losing its seal, and which does not get chewed or require folding. It also provides some insulation since the Kodel (r) is of the 1" variety, and the telescoping lids never need scraping. There is another system that appeals to me and it has been described here by our friends fron down under. It is called, I think, a hive mat. I have never tried it, but it appears to me to be a good idea. Search for "hive mat" (The double quotes will cause the LISTSERV to find only articles with the entire phrase, and not extraneous posts with only one -- or the other -- of the words. FWIW, almost every post on BEE-L has the word 'hive' and the list of hits for 'hive' would be immense). Allen --- You can search the BEE-L archives by sending email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SEARCH BEE-L topic Substitute a key word or two for the word 'topic' above Try it -- You'll Like it! --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 20:59:26 +0000 Reply-To: smharris@ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Subject: Maxant 1700 uncapper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am interested in the Maxant model 1700 automatic uncapper for the small time beekeeper. If anyone owns one or has any experience with this unit, please write me personally as a post to the list on this matter woud be inappropriate. Thanks you very much. Mason Harris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:25:33 GMT+2 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MIKE ALLSOPP Organization: N.I.P.B VREDENBURG Subject: record-keeping packages Hi All A number of local beekeepers have recently enquired about computer packages for record-keeping in beekeeping. I know that a number of these packages do exist, and some have been discussed on BEE-L. Anyone with information about, or distribution rights of, such packages, please contact me directly. many thanks Mike Allsopp Stellenbosch, South Africa Mike Allsopp tel (27)(21) 887-4690 Honeybee Research Section fax (27)(21) 883-3285 Plant Protection Research Institute pmail plant3/vredma Agricultural Research Council email vredma@plant3.agric.za P/Bag X5017 Stellenbosch 7599 South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:39:23 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: beeman Subject: Re: record-keeping packages Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:25 AM 9/23/97 GMT+2, you wrote: >Hi All > >A number of local beekeepers have recently enquired about computer >packages for record-keeping in beekeeping. I know that a number of >these packages do exist, and some have been discussed on BEE-L. >Anyone with information about, or distribution rights of, >such packages, please contact me directly. > >many thanks > >Mike Allsopp >Stellenbosch, South Africa > > > Dear Mike, My name is Jeff Barnett, and I am a Graduate of East Tn. ST. Univ. with a B.S. in computer science. I'm a pretty decent programmer if I must say so and I also have had several years exp. in commercial queen producing. If the people on Bee-L would like to give me specs on what type of program they want and EXACTLY WHAT they want it to do, I don't see why I couldn't write it (in C++). Throw my proposal on the Bee-L for me as I'm new to Bee-L and am not certain if this post will automatically go to everyone. Thanks > Jeff Barnett beeman@preferred.com retired(for now) queen producer. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:57:25 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dennis Subject: Re: Inner Covers Comments: To: Tim_Sterrett@westtown.edu In-Reply-To: <15138814.58209899@westtown.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some equipment I have worked with used inner covers and telescoping lids,= presenting the problems you describe. One solution is to use a inner = 'blanket' made of oilcloth (plastic side down), black plastic, or other = such material. Defeats some of the purpose of using inner covers, but = makes removal of innercover/telescoping lids easier/possible. My own solution is to use migratory tops. Plain plywood (5/8" preferred)= when time and cost dictate, cleated wood (1x4's) with a beeway (I really= like that beeway!) if time and money permit. I can always get a hive = tool under these, the bees glue them down nicely, and the plywood is quic= k and cheep so damage/loss to them is of no great concern. Dennis Morefield Sideline Beekeeper, 100 colonies(at times!), Oregon, USA denmar@mind.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:37:54 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Organization: Luichart Woollens Subject: Comb Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was interested to read about David Eyre's idea of interspacing cut comb foundation with drawn foundation. This only works for me if the drawn comb is already sealed. If it is not sealed then the bees continue to expand the drawn comb at the expense of the cut comb. It was incredibly hot this year when I put in my cut comb foundation and to my horror a lot of it melted and had to be scraped off of the queen excluders. This resulted in a shortage of foundation. It was towards the end of the season and I did not want to order more at that time so I melted some wax, poured it over a sheet of glass, and fitted the resultant wax sheet to the top inch or so of about one dozen frames. I inserted these frames between two sealed frames. I finished removing the honey yesterday to find that all of the plain wax frames had been drawn to some extent (about four were complete). I think that if I had done this earlier it would have been as good as foundation. What do you think? -- Harry Scotland Knitwear Web pages: http://freespace.virgin.net/luichart.woollens/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:31:00 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: record-keeping packages Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Mike I too am interested in looking at the possibility of putting a record keeping package together. Jeff Barnett is going to tackle the problem with C++, I will attempt in the first instance to handle the job with MicroSoft Access and/or MicroSoft Excel. Then if the job gets more complicated I will use Visual Basic. I am a first year beekeeper and have been many years at programming. It strikes me, that if the record keeping requirements are as diverse as the varying ways that different beekeepers do the same thing, we will end up with a package for each beekeeper.! Anyway as Jeff says, throw the Specs on to BEE-L and let's have a look at them. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail: cssl@iol.ie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:42:14 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jxrn Johanesson Subject: Package for beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have been working on such a product for seven Years now, and is still = expanding the software. I a short time I will come up with a support = web, where people can come with wishes and questions. I will infor here = when it is ready, but I suspect about the 01/10 1997. Until then you can take a look at the software I wrote! Best regards /Jorn Johanesson EDBi =3D Beekeeping software for Windows 3.1 win95 e-mail apimo@post4.tele.dk edbi homepage http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo/edbi.htm Ken Morris homepage http://www.wn.com.au/gol/members/kenm/index.htm Hivenote software win95 = ftp://ftp.wn.com.au/bidata/win95pg/bidatwin95inst.exe Hivenote software win31 ftp://ftp.wn.com.au/bidata/win31pg/bidat31.exe bolonging databasekit = ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/science/agriculture/beenet/databas1.zip ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:09:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: record-keeping packages In-Reply-To: <199709232031.VAA22093@mail.iol.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Before everyone starts writing programs, check out what is available. For Bee Management/Economics there is a program running under an Excel Spreadsheet available from Penn State University. Also, a variation of that was written in programming language and is available thru the USDA Tucson lab's web site. Our PC BEEPOP and Mite models will see a radical update in the near future. We have been using Artificial Neural Networks (a form of pattern recognizing artificial intelligence software) to better understand how weather and other variables affect bee population dynamics. Our models are on hold until we complete this task. Cheers Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:46:16 +-200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: hivenote software MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I forgot to tell that the software also is awailable at http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/agriculture/entomology/beekeeping/general/bin/Apimo/ regards ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:01:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Midnite Bee Subject: beekeeper/employment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Greetings! I have received an e-mail message from this person: can anyone help? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- I am a full time beekeeper looking for employment in United States.I am presently working for the largest beekeeper in Ontario. I have been employed there for the past 6 years. I am fully experienced in all of the day to day operations of a large apiary. Any information on employment situations or persons I can contact would be greatly appreciated. You can email me at cfrere@niagara.com THANK YOU Mark Mcintee ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:15:26 -0500 Reply-To: lowell@pdq.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Lowell M. Lienemann" Subject: Re: Inner Covers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dennis, What is the beeway that you talk about? Please give an explanation and description. I am totally unfamiliar with the term in relation to a top cover. I'm getting to make some migratory tops soon. Your response will be appreciated. Thanks! Lowell M. Lienemann lowell@pdq.net ---------- From: Dennis To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Re: Inner Covers Date: Tuesday, September 23, 1997 11:57 AM Some equipment I have worked with used inner covers and telescoping lids, presenting the problems you describe. One solution is to use a inner 'blanket' made of oilcloth (plastic side down), black plastic, or other such material. Defeats some of the purpose of using inner covers, but makes removal of innercover/telescoping lids easier/possible. My own solution is to use migratory tops. Plain plywood (5/8" preferred) when time and cost dictate, cleated wood (1x4's) with a beeway (I really like that beeway!) if time and money permit. I can always get a hive tool under these, the bees glue them down nicely, and the plywood is quick and cheep so damage/loss to them is of no great concern. Dennis Morefield Sideline Beekeeper, 100 colonies(at times!), Oregon, USA denmar@mind.net ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:11:14 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: Inner Covers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII One of the purposes of the inner cover and of the burlap bag and of the hive mat seems to be the prevention of a buildup of burr comb from sticking the outer cover down. The telescoping outer cover is difficult to remove because you can't pry against anything to pop it off. I use insulated inner covers in the winter and I leave them on in the summer because they are easy to pry off even when stuck down with burr comb. Naturally it would be better if the bees did not build the burr comb in the first place. I find if you make the space between the top bars and the inner cover about 5/16 of an inch this burr comb is minimised. the difficulty is partly in the non-uniformiy of the frame height in the supers. A rim height of about 3/16 of an inch works best for me. Donald Aitken 11710-129 Street Edmonton Alberta Canada T5M 0Y7 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 06:33:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Apiservices Subject: The First Virtual Beekeeping Gallery in the World has changed its look. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The graphics have been improved and lightened. The site works in "mirroring" on the following two addresses: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/apiservices http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/apiservices Depending on where you are in the world when you make the connection, the= re is always one site which is faster than the other, try it for yourself...= (soon there will only be one address : www.apiservices.com) A stream of information and its only a start... Apiservices' bilingual (French and English) site has become "The First Virtual Beekeeping Gallery in the World". A growing number of businesses,= magazines, manufacturers, laboratories and services are already present i= n the gallery: Abeille & Cie (journal) Apiata (journal) Apidologie (journal) Apimondia (International Federation) Apis=E9lixirs (health products) Apiservices (services, development) Association Europ=E9enne d'Apith=E9rapie (health) Beekeeping & Development (journal) Biov=E9 (veterinary products) C.A.R.I. (association) CNEVA (laboratory for bee disease and analysis of hive products) Communicate Now (specialized beekeeping translations French/English/French) E.D.A.P.I (European Documentation in Apiculture for Press and Information) Leclercq (producer of CD ROMs for beekeeping) O.P.I.D.A. (journal, technical bulletins, posters, videos) R.F.A (journal) Swarm (veterinary products) Thomas (beekeeping equipment) In German, there is already Imkerei Technik (journal) In Portugese O'Apicultor (journal) These will soon joined by wholesalers and bee enterprises selling by mail= order. The site will also contain a calendar of coming international events. We would be grateful for your participation in keeping this calendar up to date. We are setting up descriptive files by country (one of the two addresses = + /country.htm). For this, we also need your participation. A good example = of the sort of information required can be seen in the files on Argentina (o= ne of the two addresses + /argentin.htm) or Vietnam (one of the two addresse= s + /vietnam.htm). We are open to all constructive remarks, suggestions or projects. Thanks.= (\ {III8< (/ Ratia Gilles International Beekeeping Consultant APISERVICES "Le Terrier" F-24420 Coulaures - France Phone : (+33) 5 53 05 91 13 Mobile : (+33) 6 07 68 49 39 Fax : (+33) 5 53 04 44 57 Email : apiservices@compuserve.com URL 1 : http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/apiservices URL 2 : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/apiservices First Virtual Beekeeping Gallery in the World ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 06:33:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Apiservices Subject: La Premihre Galerie Virtuelle Apicole au Monde change de look MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le graphisme s'est am=E9lior=E9 et all=E9g=E9. Le site travaille en "mirr= oring" sur deux adresses : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/apiservices http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/apiservices Suivant o=F9 l'on se trouve dans le monde et aussi l'heure de connexion, = il y a toujours un site plus rapide que l'autre, essayez ! (bient=F4t il y aur= a une seule adresse : www.apiservices.com) Un flot d'informations et cela n'est qu'un d=E9but ! Le site d'Apiservices bilingue (fran=E7ais & anglais) est ainsi devenu la= "Premi=E8re Galerie Virtuelle Apicole au Monde". Un nombre croissant d'associations, de revues, de fabricants, de laboratoires, de prestataires de services s'y font d=E9j=E0 h=E9berger : Abeille & Cie (journal) Apiata (journal) Apidologie (journal) Apimondia (F=E9d=E9ration Internationale) Apis=E9lixirs (produits sant=E9) Apiservices (services, d=E9veloppement) Association Europ=E9enne d'Apith=E9rapie Beekeeping & Development (journal) Biov=E9 (produits v=E9t=E9rinaires) C.A.R.I. (association) CNEVA (laboratoire pathologies abeilles et analyses produits de l= a ruche) Communicate Now (traductions sp=E9cialis=E9es dans l'apiculture fran=E7ais/anglais/fran=E7ais) E.D.A.P.I (association europ=E9enne de presse apicole) Leclercq (producteur de CD ROM apicoles) O.P.I.D.A. (journal, fiches techniques, posters, vid=E9os) R.F.A (journal) Swarm (produits v=E9t=E9rinaires) Thomas (=E9quipement apicole) = En allemand, il y a d=E9j=E0 Imkerei Technik (journal) et en portuguais O'Apicultor (journal). Il y aura aussi bient=F4t des n=E9gociants et des exploitations apicoles vendant par correspondance. Le site maintiendra aussi un calendrier des prochaines manifestations internationales. Nous avons besoin de votre concours. Des fiches signal=E9tiques par pays se mettent en place (une des deux adresses ci-dessus + /pays.htm). Ici aussi nous avons besoin de votre concours. Vous en avez une bonne illustrations avec les fiches d'argentin= e (une des deux adresses ci-dessus + /argentin.htm) ou du Vi=EAt-nam (une d= es deux adresses ci-dessus + /vietnam.htm,) par exemple. Toutes remarques constructives, suggestions ou projets seront les bienvenues. Merci. (\ {III8< (/ Ratia Gilles Consultant Apicole International APISERVICES Groupe de Recherche et d'Assistance dans la Coop=E9ration Apicole "Le Terrier" 24420 Coulaures - France T=E9l=E9phone : 05 53 05 91 13 (ou +33 5 53 05 91 13 depuis l'=E9tranger)= Mobile : 06.07.68.49.39 (ou +33 6 07 68 49 39 depuis l'=E9tranger) T=E9l=E9copie : 05 53 04 44 57 (ou +33 5 53 05 44 57 depuis l'=E9tranger)= Email : apiservices@compuserve.com URL 1 : http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/apiservices URL 2 : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/apiservices Premi=E8re Galerie Virtuelle Apicole au Monde ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:24:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Russ Carlton Subject: Re: Used Extractor Equip MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Terry Avise gave me your name as an information source. Can you help with my search? Thanks, Russ Carlton ---------- From: Terry Avise[SMTP:dadant@dadant.com] Sent: Friday, September 19, 1997 10:50 AM To: dadant@dadant.com; Russ Carlton Subject: Used Extractor Equip Russ Carlton wrote: > > I am a hobby beekeeper in Brighton, MI and need some help extracting my > son's honey crop (250 lbs). I have sold most of the equipment I had years > ago. > > 1) Is there a local beekeeper who might agree to extract or let me extract > with his equip? > > 2) Is there a billboard of equipment for sale? > > NEEDED: Small or cheap hand extractor (prefer reversible) > Small settleing / bottleing tank. > > Thanks for your help. > > Russ Carlton Hello Russ, We do not have a billboard set up on site. You might check out http: //www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee He lists beekeeping clubs and organizations on his site. You might also send a message to bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu. This is a discussion group about beekeeping. Everyday email is distributed to the group about every aspect of beekeeping. you can sign up by sending an email to listserv@cnsibm.albany.edu. In the body of the message enter: subscribe (your real name). One of the fellows on bee-l was going to put up a for sale/wanted equipment page. I do not have the address since it was for individuals. I am attaching a list of our branches. You could also call the Waverly NY branch. Sometimes branch managers know of used equipment for sale. Terry -- Dadant & Sons Inc 51 South Second St Hamilton, IL 62341 Manufacturers and Suppliers of Beekeeping Equipment Publishers of American Bee Journal Manufacturers of Religious & Decorative Candles Phone 217-847-3324 Fax 217-847-3660 email Dadant@dadant.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:42:23 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kuyckx Maurice Subject: Re: Queen Excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Computer Software Solutions Ltd wrote: > > Hi All > > Another question from a new beekeeper > > The book says, that when you lift the crown board, that you should check > that the queen is not on the underside of it. > > It strikes me, that if you always put a queen excluder over the brood > chamber even before you put on any supers. that this possibility would be > eliminated, so it is one less thing for a new beekeeper (who like myself > would not be able to identify the queen in the melee of bees anyway), to > have to contend with. > > I am aware that a very small queen can possibily get through the excluder, > but to an amateur, who would have difficulty in identifying any sized queen, > this would hardly be of significance. > > What do our experienced people think? ... it's so simple, if all of your Queens have a collored number on it, you will find them in a few minutes. So I do. sig. Maurice from Belgium ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:21:51 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: D Warr Subject: Crown Board Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can someone tell me, just what use is a crown board. I have seen polystyrene and carpet squares used instead. So why have a lid inside a lid?? <><><><><><><><><> David Warr (Member of the ) (\ (\ (\ Ormskirk & Croston District Branch {|||8< {||||8< {|||||8< of the (/ (/ (/ Lancashire & North-West Beekeepers' Association. Volant, faciunt, floremus <><><><><><><><><> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:22:34 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bernard Heymans Subject: Re: Queen Excluders Comments: cc: m.kuyckxhasselt@GLO.BE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Maurice, Don't forget that in other part of the world people don't use theses colored numbers we use here. In fact most people don't produce queens... They buy them. So where it is common for us to produce, test and select queens, they mostly never saw the queen... Why should they them bother labeling a queen? If you say them that you actually open your box once a week, they will say you are a fool. They are right. But they will never have the population we believe normal. We want good honey for ourself, and that our hobby doesn't become too expensive... They see it as a source of money. We tend to have very few hives but with the biggest population possible. But if we fail to control it, we will loose all of it: swarming will be wonderful, but the box will be empty. By the way: Was this year also so bad for you? Any hive dead? Bernard. (also Belgium) Note for non Belgian: This year had the worst condition I have seen in years beekeeping... We had to give some supply in July!!! At 19:42 22/09/97 +0200, you wrote: >Computer Software Solutions Ltd wrote: >> >> Hi All >> >> Another question from a new beekeeper >> >> The book says, that when you lift the crown board, that you should check >> that the queen is not on the underside of it. >> >> It strikes me, that if you always put a queen excluder over the brood >> chamber even before you put on any supers. that this possibility would be >> eliminated, so it is one less thing for a new beekeeper (who like myself >> would not be able to identify the queen in the melee of bees anyway), to >> have to contend with. >> >> I am aware that a very small queen can possibily get through the excluder, >> but to an amateur, who would have difficulty in identifying any sized queen, >> this would hardly be of significance. >> >> What do our experienced people think? >... it's so simple, if all of your Queens have a colored number on it, >you will find them in a few minutes. So I do. sig. Maurice from Belgium > > ********************************************************************* * Bernard Heymans bheymans@informix.com * * Informix Bruxelles tel -32-2 - 711 11 30 * * Support Contract Specialist fax -32-2 - 711.11.22 * ********************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:29:20 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bernard Heymans Subject: Re: Crown Board Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As you did understand, a crown board can be made of any stuff that will not get destroyed. For myself I use frames with glasses. It's easy to see what is happeming in the hive. Bernard. At 21:21 20/09/97 +0100, you wrote: > Can someone tell me, just what use is a crown board. I have seen >polystyrene and carpet squares used instead. So why have a lid inside a lid?? ><><><><><><><><><> > David Warr (Member of the ) > (\ (\ (\ Ormskirk & Croston District Branch > {|||8< {||||8< {|||||8< of the > (/ (/ (/ Lancashire & North-West Beekeepers' > Association. > Volant, faciunt, floremus ><><><><><><><><><> > > > ********************************************************************* * Bernard Heymans bheymans@informix.com * * Informix Bruxelles tel -32-2 - 711 11 30 * * Support Contract Specialist fax -32-2 - 711.11.22 * ********************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:46:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barbara Larson Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 22 Sep 1997 to 23 Sep 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have recently (in the past 3 weeks) subscribed to this list, and two others, and have started receiving a remarkable amount of SPAM mail for the first time, (most sexually oriented) so I have reason to suspect this list. Has anyone else had this problem lately? If so, pls let me know at blarson@cds.eds.com. If the response is high I will notify the list. Life is what happens to you while you are planning to do something else. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:17:36 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: record-keeping packages In-Reply-To: <17113695203515@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Before everyone starts writing programs, check out what is available. > For Bee Management/Economics there is a program running under an Excel > Spreadsheet available from Penn State University... I guess I should mention that I use also MS Excel to keep records. Having done programming in my past, I can't really imagine custom written software that would suit all -- or even most -- beekeepers. Spreadsheets are easily modified on the fly so that they are not constricting, and are capable of handling reasonably large arrays of data. I change my spreadsheets regularly to reflect the information that I consider important at the time, adding and deleting columns and rows as the spirit moves me. I keep the previous versions -- before changes -- to ensure historical information can be found later if desired. Excel and similar high end spreadsheets are good in that columns and rows can be hidden so that only the currently relevant info is shown, yet the other info is still there and can be shown or concealed in any of several different different 'views'. To mention only a few features, I have a calculated column that shows the supers per hive ratio in each yard during flows to detect those that might have been shortchanged when the crew ran out of boxes on the truck. I also have columns that show the winter survival, yield per hive and splits made from each yard to help track relative profitability and trends. So far I do not use macro or reporting capabilities, but they are there if I want them and the sheets grow and change over time. Each week, or when we have completed a round, I update the sheets from the printed copies my crews carry and write on, and add or hide columns if new tasks are coming up, then print a fresh copy (three 8-1/2 X 14 sheets) for each crew. Colours denote each foreman, so it is easy to see the source of any information and, if necessary discuss any problems. I guess I could chat more about this when time permits if anyone is interested and even produce some samples or a screen shot at some point. Allen --- You can search the BEE-L archives by sending email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SEARCH BEE-L topic Substitute a key word or two for the word 'topic' above Try it -- You'll Like it! --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:56:41 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: record-keeping packages In-Reply-To: <18172606103679@internode.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > and even produce some samples or a screen shot at some point. Voila! That was quick. I have one ready. If you are interested in a 64K GIF of an Excel page view I'm currently using -- suitably altered to conceal trade secrets (laugh here), send email to allend@internode.net saying only SEND YARDS.GIF in the SUBJECT line. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:24:59 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy Nachbaur (by way of Andy Nachbar )" Subject: Pair gets buzz from killer job with bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.hotcoco.com/news/state/stories/slw39588.htm <Hot CoCo Published on September 22, 1997 Pair gets buzz from killer job with bees left* Duo uses soapsuds to exerminate Africanized killer bees in Southern California=20 ASSOCIATED PRESS ---------- SANTA ANA -- Who ya gonna call when you find a horde of killer bees buzzing about your yard?=20 The bee busters.=20 Jesse Palomera and Scott McLaughlin have been at the front line against the Africanized honeybee, a six-legged, fur-fringed menace that is crowding its way into Southern California.=20 In the two years since the Africanized honeybee first hitched a ride into California aboard a pipe truck in 1995, the sprawling 4,000 square miles of Imperial County on the Mexican border have become completely colonized.=20 Within a year, the bee has made inroads into Riverside and San Diego counties and is poised to leap into Los Angeles and Orange counties.=20 With special training as bee busters, Palomera, McLaughlin and five other Imperial County vector-control technicians become the state's expert team for zapping killer-bee colonies. Swarms of the bees have muscled into California after a 40-year trek from South America.=20 The technicians average 15 calls a day about the bees, which they attack with simple soap suds while wearing head nets, gauntlets and slick white bee suits made of slippery nylon cloth.=20 "Soap and water. That's what works best on bees," says Tom Wolf, manager of the county's environmental health division. "But don't try it at home. Let us handle it."=20 After being sprayed with a soapy mist, the bees fall to the ground and suffocate as the soap clogs their breathing tubes, Wolf says.=20 Palomera says that if the swarm is conveniently dangling from a low branch, the technician can spritz it with an ordinary garden hand sprayer. If the nest is not readily accessible, the technicians use power sprayers mounted on the backs of their pickups.=20 Bees swarm when they're looking for a new home, usually dangling from the branch of a tree, or from the eaves of a building, until they find a permanent nesting place.=20 "You want to get them while they're outside and swarming. Once they've made a nest, you've got a fight on your hands," Wolf says.=20 The Imperial County agricultural commissioner has reported more than 70 DNA-confirmed swarms, but only three stingings.=20 After killing the swarm, the technician sweeps up the furry corpses, selecting 50 or so for storage at the lab in case further study is needed.=20 The techs also leave behind a baited trap to pick up the scouts and stragglers who weren't around for the soap bath.=20 Since escaping from a laboratory in Brazil in 1956, the Africanized honeybee so far has killed more than 1,000 people during its relentless four-decade march north. In 1977, 300 people died from killer-bee attacks in Venezuela alone.=20 Since the bee arrived in the United States seven years ago, three people have died in Texas from attacks, and two others were seriously injured in Arizona. Since the bee crossed into California in 1995, there have been at least three attacks, though no serious injuries.=20 The migration of killer bees into California has been slower than anticipated, however, largely because of an unexpected ally, a microscopic parasitic mite that has been killing off the feral bee population.=20 But the outbreak of bee mites has subsided, and experts think now that the killer bee gradually will continue colonizing all of Southern California.=20 Edition: SRVT,=A0 Section: A,=A0 Page: 12 ---------- <=A9 1997 Contra Costa Newspapers Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:45:16 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: beeman Subject: Re: hivenote software Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:46 AM 9/24/97 +-200, you wrote: >I forgot to tell that the software also is awailable at > >http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/agriculture/entomology/beekeeping/gener al/bin/Apimo/ > >regards > These programs will not work for me!!!! Whenever I try to install them I receive a "CRC error ins DISK 2\_SETUP.2". The installation instructions are extremely vague. The author wants $200 for this? Disappointed, Jeff Jeff Barnett beeman@preferred.com retired(for now) queen producer. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:41:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: hivenote software >These programs will not work for me!!!! Whenever I try to install them >I receive a "CRC error ins DISK 2\_SETUP.2". The installation instructions >are extremely vague. The author wants $200 for this? > >Disappointed, Jeff: If I am not mistaken a CRC Error "probably means" that there was a glitch in your download..so that you did not receive a complete/correct file on that Disk #2. I have had that problem before, usually when the phone line is a bit screwed up! Try downloading that Disk#2 again. Al, ----------------------------------------------------------- awneedham@juno.com - Scituate,MA,USA Cerberus - Three Sites In One Honey Bees-LottoLand-Doktor Finkle http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:51:05 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brett D Bannon SEARCH BEE-L "queen book" SEARCH BEE-L raising queens ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:35:42 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brett D Bannon GETPOST BEE-L 2247 6623 6679 8736 8764 8808 9095 9127 9154 12329 12342 12346 12689 12696 12973 13046 14966 16637 16641 16754 18481 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 06:45:28 +-200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: error in archive from sunset! Comments: To: "beeman@preferred.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jeff Barnett! <>These programs will not work for me!!!! Whenever I try to install them = I receivea "CRC error ins DISK 2\_SETUP.2". The installation = instructions are extremely vague. The author wants $200 for this? Disappointed <> To be sure I took down the archive from the same Url. and I must admit = that I got the same error from winrar (Russian software) when I tried to = install it. The software that this url returned to me was 2.01mb while the software = I had put up was 4.9mb. I don't know what has coursed the error, but the = software install was of course testet before I put it up. I understand that you are disappointed, but I have my back free here. I also sometimes are disappointed when I get some software, specially if = I pay for it in advance. Example is the installshield that is not doing = its task very well with win95 long filenames. But that is another story. I advise not to take the software down from sunset until Adam = Finkelstein and I have fixed this error with the bad archive on sunset. = Use the following address in stead of : ftp://ftp.wn.com.au/bidata/win95pg/ instead of! The archive bidatawin95inst.exe is 4.920.945 in size. best regards Jorn Johanesson apimo.post4.tele.dk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:44:39 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dennis Subject: Re: Inner Covers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Lowell and all, The beeway I referr to is simply a 3/4" wide by 5/16" strip that is faste= ned to the lid on the inside surface to hold the lid off the top of the = frames below by at least a 'bee space' (considered to be 1/4" to 3/8"). The need for this beeway is dictated by your equipment. The hive body = you put the frames in is supposed to be 5/16" deeper than the frames used= in it, in order that when the body (box) is stacked on another the bees = will not glue it together or fill it with bur comb. The rabbit that the = frames hang from determines where the bee space is located. It can be = at the top, at the bottom, or split between top and bottom. Proper inner covers provide, when used with the body design intended, a = bee space across the top of the combs. Many colonies leave this space = alone, some go ahead and glue it and burr it up. Usually because we messe= d up the bee space somehow. Because this bee space is messed up so often, I like to put a beeway unde= r a migratory top. This ensures that there is AT LEAST a normal beeway. = When working colonies it makes the top easier to remove. Burr comb (if = present) is soft and easy to pull apart. I scrape the tops and frame top= bars clean into a bucket, so the next time I open that hive, I know if = they are pulling wax or not immediatly. In winter it seems to help with = ventilation and allows the cluster to move sideways to stores easier (I = think ). Sorry if I got a little windy here, once I get going.... Saw a tee shirt once, it said: "Help! I've started talking and can't = stop!" I should get one of those. Dennis Morefield Sideline Beekeeper, 100 colonies(at times!), Oregon, USA denmar@mind.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 01:03:38 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbar Subject: Re: error in archive from sunset! In-Reply-To: <01BCC97E.B2967B80@ppp57.rd.tele.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:45 AM 9/25/97 +-200, you wrote: >I understand that you are disappointed, but I have my back free here. > >I also sometimes are disappointed when I get some software, specially if I pay for it in advance. Example is the installshield that is not doing its task very well with win95 long filenames. But that is another story. ftp://ftp.wn.com.au/bidata/win95pg/ instead of! Hi Jorn, I d/l'ed it from this site and it installed very nice...BUT I found that it has already expired and I really can't say much about it other then it installed real nice and looks interesting. No doubt I should have d/l the book on it and maybe I will find out how to use it for the trial period. ttul, Andy- >The archive bidatawin95inst.exe is 4.920.945 in size. > >best regards Jorn Johanesson > >apimo.post4.tele.dk > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 03:31:07 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Does Bidata Work? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970925010338.00807100@calwest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >I understand that you are disappointed... > I d/l'ed it from this site and it installed very nice...BUT I found that > it has already expired... In spite of vigorous promotion by the author over many months, I cannot recall even one person writing in to say that they use Bidata software and that it installed well and is in regular use to their full satisfaction. I have, however heard a number of fairly serious complaints. For that reason I have advocated caution in d/ling and using it thus far. It is often the case that the dissatisfied customers complain loudly while the happy ones have little to say. In the interest of fairness and consumer awareness, I would like to know is whether anyone has purchased and used Bidata for any period of time with satisfaction and its good points. I would also like to hear of any failed attempts or complaints about Bidata. I'll compile and summarize the responses to this list within the next few days. Please respond *directly to me* at allend@internode.net with as much of the the following info as you can easily recall: 1.) Version (operating system and language) 2.) Aproximate date and source of download 3.) Experience in installation and beginning use 4.) Brief comments on satisfaction and usefulness and documentation 5.) Number of hives and yards recorded and over how long 6.) Type and scope of bee operation (Queen rearing, honey production, pollination, commercial, sideline, hobby, etc.) Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 03:54:21 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Inner Covers In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > The need for this beeway is dictated by your equipment. The hive body > you put the frames in is supposed to be 5/16" deeper than the frames used > in it, in order that when the body (box) is stacked on another the bees > will not glue it together or fill it with bur comb. The rabbit that the > frames hang from determines where the bee space is located. It can be at > the top, at the bottom, or split between top and bottom. This is the essence of the matter, and why many use sacks, canvas, vinyl, carpet, plastic, etc. under the lid. It is also the only good reason to buy only new equipment -- and from only one manufacturer. It seems every different builder of supers has a different idea of how much bee space to use and where to put it. When stacking boxes made by different bee houses, a beekeeper may find that he/she has a double bee space between two supers, then no bee space between the next two. Moreover, many home builders play fast and loose with the dimensions and a real variety can be found in many outfits. One common error is to cut the boards to width before the wood dries and shrinks or to try to get by with 10" nominal lumber and wind up with a scant 9-1/2 inch box. Sacks and the like eliminate the need for accuracy in dimensions under lids. It doesn't matter if the lid is 1/2" or even more above the frames, since the sack or whatever is in contact with them and peels off easily. So, the preference for one inner cover over another -- or even the use of inner covers at all -- may simply come down to how well built your equipment is. In my case, although I do have thousands of brand new boxes, they are from several makers, and I do also have some that are 35 years old. It seems my equipment has been made in just about every woodworking shop and backyard garage in North America:( For me sacks and plastic pillows have been the best since they accommodate all the diversity and also allow for putting patties under the lids without running for rims or scraping. While mentioning sacks and canvas, and plastic, I should mention the need for bee passageways over top of the frames in winter and also for access to oxytet dust if placed on top bars. Small sticks are sometimes used for this, although after some burr comb builds up there from reversing, the bees can usually get through well enough for winter purposes. Allen --- You can search the BEE-L archives by sending email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SEARCH BEE-L topic Substitute a key word or two for the word 'topic' above Try it -- You'll Like it! --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 04:06:56 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Inner Covers In-Reply-To: <09533366100608@internode.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > While mentioning sacks and canvas, and plastic, I should mention the need > for bee passageways over top of the frames in winter... While re-reading this after posting I remembered that I should add the following caveat: We have had bad luck using sacks under telescoping lids for wintering here in Alberta. They get damp and mouldy since they cannot get rid of the moisture through the upper surface. Plastic has no such drawback, since it does not absorb water. If sacks are allowed to breath on the top surface, they do work well. I have seen them as the only lids used on hives in wintering boxes that are filled with wood shavings. Assuming the outer wintering box is drafty enough to let the moisture out, they do very very nicely. We have used them with no other lid in our wintering wraps with good success, since a porous plastic bag with insulation goes on top and the outer wrap breathes well. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:57:38 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Inner cover thread Hi All I was recently given a number of hives by an old beekeepers wife. Her husband died and she asked if I would look after the hives. She said I could take one home as well as I was interested in the bees (she lives at the coast and the bees there are more aggressive than mine which are further inland). This beekeeper built hive lids that were made with a thin wooden frame that fitted onto the edge of the hive rim. Accross this frame he had nailed floor boards with tongue and groove joints. This had then been creosoted and apparently left in the sun for a month. Then he put the lids on the hives and that was that. These lids are at least twenty years old as that is when he last made equipment, and his bees work extremely well. The space above the frames is about 4cm (2 inches'ish) and on hot days the bees pile into this space. They never build burr comb on top of the bars either, which is nice. it appears they don't because of the creosote. They forage really well and are aggressive as hell (this is their nature though). I took this lid and put it on another hive and it actually helped them, and they worked harder almost immmediatly. I am not sure why this is, but I believe it may be to do with the lid not having any hiding places for hive beatles which trash the brood. Anyhow the whole thick black layer of creosote over wood thing with bees there scares me, but this guy produced honey for forty odd years using the system, and some of his equipment looks like it must have been with him from the beginning! Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Kamdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800ml annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 3rd year Biochemistry/Microbiology Rhodes University In general, generalisations are bad. Interests: Flii's and Bees. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:13:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Inner cover thread Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As someone before has mentioned, there is a fundamental problem with the dimensions of supers in the first place, i.e., a 9 5/8" super takes 9 1/8" frames. There's a half inch left over (too much already) which gets split between the top and bottom, depending on the manufacturer. North American hives are supposed to have top bee-space... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:53:08 -0400 Reply-To: ajwelk@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Welk Subject: Wrong address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brett D Bannon wrote: > > SEARCH BEE-L "queen book" > > SEARCH BEE-L raising queens Brett you used the wrong address. YOu sent your request to the bee-list , all the recievers of BEEL instead of the server, listserv. You need to address your request to "LISTSERV@CNIBM.ALBANY.EDU" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:44:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Justin Spaulding III Subject: Looking for URL's In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Bee People- I'm looking to update our clubs web page and I'm looking for interesting related url. It doesn't have to be "honey bee" related. Bumbles and others are exceptable. also honey bee products candles, waxes, mead, pollination information. If you have a favorite let me know. Please, as a courtesy to other on the list respond to me privately at the address below. John Spaulding juggler@nesc.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:12:43 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Deer Subject: Re: Looking for URL's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/5523/bee.htm http://www.thorne.co.uk/ Http://www.beesting.com/ http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index2.html http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks/ http://www.cyberTours.com/~midnitebee/home.html http://sunsite.unc.edu/bees/home.html http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm http://people.netcom.co.uk/m.turner/ http://www.ifi.unit.no/~janne/bee.htm http://www.kohala.net/bees/#anchor400987 http://www.internode.net/honeybee/BeeAds/index.htm http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/BeeSite.htm http://www.birkey.com/BLB/index.html http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Beekeeping/weblinks.htm http://www.concentric.net/~Bkeep200/ http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet/apinet.htm http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/index.html http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/7/ch77.html http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo/edbi.htm ---John Justin Spaulding III wrote: > > Bee People- > > I'm looking to update our clubs web page and I'm looking for interesting > related url. > > It doesn't have to be "honey bee" related. > > Bumbles and others are exceptable. > > also honey bee products candles, waxes, mead, pollination information. > > If you have a favorite let me know. > > Please, as a courtesy to other on the list respond to me privately at the > address below. > > John Spaulding juggler@nesc.org > _____________________________________________________________________ Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:06:12 -0400 Reply-To: ajwelk@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Welk Subject: Re: Looking for URL's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Justin Spaulding III wrote: > > Bee People- > > I'm looking to update our clubs web page and I'm looking for interesting > related url. > > It doesn't have to be "honey bee" related. > > Bumbles and others are exceptable. > > also honey bee products candles, waxes, mead, pollination information. > > If you have a favorite let me know. > > Please, as a courtesy to other on the list respond to me privately at the > address below. > > John Spaulding juggler@nesc.org John here are two that I enjoy. Barry Birkey has some great plans and is very well organized. http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/index.html The second is for the National Honey Board. They have some good information. http://www.nhb.org/honey/ Hope these help. Al Welk-Atlanta, GA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 01:43:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Bee space MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 <<<<>>>>> If only people would read a book. Supers welded together with extra comb= , burr comb on the top bars and on the cover board, all completely unnecessary. The answer was given to us one hundred and forty five year= s ago and it is clear from all the discussion lately that the message has n= ot got through to many beekeepers. It was given to us by a beekeeper whose= name is perpetuated world-wide in the Langstroth hive. Bees will respect a space of approximately one quarter to five sixteenths= of an inch. Less than this they will build burr comb, greater and they wi= ll insert cells. Thus maintaining this gap between top bars and excluder, = bottom and top bars of adjacent supers and finally the cover board will result in easy operation and little or no burr comb. In England hive bodies are made this much deeper than the depth of the combs. The beeway can be top or bottom but the usual practice now is to have it at the top. We then have a wire excluder flush underneath and wi= th a quarter inch lip above to give correct clearance to the first super. = With bottom beeway the excluder would have to be reversed. and the cover board would need a lip. It is essential that the beekeeper settles for one system or the other. = Mixing them up is disastrous as there will be no beeway or double with bottom bars stuck firmly to top bars or extra comb between. = Beekeepers contemplating making hive bodies must realise that accuracy o= f depth is vital, a quarter to five sixteenths inches more than the depth o= f the combs. Sid P. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 03:21:41 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Bee space In-Reply-To: <199709260143_MC2-21DB-7504@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >> What is the beeway.... I am totally unfamiliar with the term in >> relation to a top cover. > If only people would read a book. Supers welded together with extra > comb, burr comb on the top bars and on the cover board, all completely > unnecessary... I can't agree with you more, but just the same I must admit I was little puzzled by the usage of the term in the original post too. I'm more familiar with the term 'bee space', and would have referred to the manner of obtaining it as a 'rim' or strips to ensure a bee space. FWIW, I too have made 3/4" plywood migratory lids as described and they were some of the nicest lids I've ever had, however they still got stuck down sometimes and needed annual scraping. Someone (was it you) astutely mentioned the cumulative size of the gap that several match sticks placed under a lid can cause (6 square inches?!). Lids removed and replaced in spring and fall often have a gap that large in spring ot fall due to warpage or chunks of propolis and wax until the colony can re-seal them. Weaker colonies may not be able to. Unless the weather is right or special care is taken, this can expose small colonies in windy areas to stress and affect buildup. This is a main reason many of us use a blanket of some sort on top and sacrifice bee space there. The other is that many of us have a wide selection of equipment that does not scrupulously observe bee space on top and bottom of boxes, and are not about to put in the time and effort to try to modify all the equipment. > The answer was given to us one hundred and forty five > years ago and it is clear from all the discussion lately that the > message has not got through to many beekeepers. It was given to us by a > beekeeper whose name is perpetuated world-wide in the Langstroth hive. There is now, I believe, some doubt as to exactly who discovered this and when. > Bees will respect a space of approximately one quarter to five > sixteenths of an inch. Less than this they will build burr comb, greater > and they will insert cells. True. However this is not a hard and fast rule, rather it is a tendancy. Some bees respect this principal much more strongly than others. The dimension is subject to opinion too. I've heard 3/16" to 3/8". Moreover, due to the shape of frames and the fact that they do not always line up directly above one another for various reasons: levelling, warpage, different frame counts in the super vs. the brood boxes, it may be impossible or undesirable to maintaIin that space accurately in commercial activity. If anyone has trouble visualizing this, drawing a cross-section of an 8 frame spaced box on a 10 frame box might help. It is clear that gaps over 3/8" occur, even if the box height is correct. Narrow bottom bars and top bars can contribute to this problem. > Thus maintaining this gap between top bars and excluder, bottom and top > bars of adjacent supers and finally the cover board will result in easy > operation and little or no burr comb. In a perfect world. > In England hive bodies are made this much deeper than the depth of the > combs. The beeway can be top or bottom but the usual practice now is to > have it at the top. We then have a wire excluder flush underneath and > with a quarter inch lip above to give correct clearance to the first > super. With bottom beeway the excluder would have to be reversed. and > the cover board would need a lip. In North America, the practice is more and more to use wire excluders with steel edges and no rim. Bee space is not used, since the contact on one or both boxes encourages bees to travel through, while a space would increase the natural initial reluctance of bees to pass. This is likely one of those little secrets that explain why one beekeeper (me) will say that his bees seldom balk at an excluder, while many will say their bees will not go through. Gaps between boxes, while keeping things neat for the protestant minded beekeeper, are not what the bees expect and 'like'. Moreover bee space -- (or greater) -- between brood chambers and supers does, in fact, inhibit both the bees and the queen from moving as freely as we would like in many cases. Bees 'want' all the comb to be continuous. For some reason they often 'accept' gaps of certain sizes. In our operation -- once one of the best scraped outfits on the planet -- we now no longer remove ladder comb until it becomes too serious and is crushing a significant number of bees. > It is essential that the beekeeper settles for one system or the other. > Mixing them up is disastrous as there will be no beeway or double with > bottom bars stuck firmly to top bars or extra comb between. IMO This is doctrine. Real life is not quite so clear cut -- at least around here. Yes, things do get stuck together. They will in any case under the right conditions. Bee space will certainly reduce the problem, however many of us put up with what we have -- and do quite well. > Beekeepers contemplating making hive bodies must realise that accuracy > of depth is vital, a quarter to five sixteenths inches more than the > depth of the combs. Amen to that. Allen --- You can search the BEE-L archives by sending email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SEARCH BEE-L topic Substitute a key word or two for the word 'topic' above Try it -- You'll Like it! --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:47:59 +0000 Reply-To: nickw@wave.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Supers/honey/wax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've added another conversion/rule of thumb to http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/convert.htm for supers/honey/cappings wax. For a full depth super of honey, I'm assuming 30kg(66lb) full weight, with 20kg(44lb) of honey, 10kg(22lb) epty weight. Extracting the honey will give .3kg(.66lb) cappings wax. Weights based on FD super of 'mixed' dark/light old/new combs... Sound reasonable? (\ Nick Wallingford nickw@wave.co.nz {|||8- NZ beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz (/ Autoresponder - info@beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:04:48 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Does Bidata Work? In-Reply-To: <09301916600591@internode.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > ... I cannot recall even one person writing in to say that they use > Bidata software and that it installed well and is in regular use to > their full satisfaction.... I'm still waiting. Not one person has ventured a further opinion on Bidata since I offered to do this little survey. I did receive a kind note from the author (Jorn) of the software explaining that he has been working on it for seven years and has mastered the several problems that lead to complaints as quickly as possible. Moreover he uses it himself. He indicates that downloads since 09/08 1997 are 74 for win95 and 21 for win 3.1. That's quite a few. I wonder how many of you installed and ran or tried to run the software, Please let me know -- even if you don't complete my survey questions. Confidentiality is ensured unless you ask to be named. On a related topic: So far I've processed over 35 requests for the yards.gif screenshot of my MS Excel spreadsheet sample. I'm not selling it or even giving it away. I just offered it for information purposes and to stimulate discussion on computer record keeping. I was hoping to hear some questions and comments -- and of course, criticism and suggestions for improvement. So please drop me a line or post some ideas here. Allen --- You can search the BEE-L archives by sending email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SEARCH BEE-L "key phrase" Substitute a key phrase for "key phrase" above. and remember to use the double quotes to exclude hits on the individual words in the phrase --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 00:06:28 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: inner cover ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about the use of roll roofing cut the right size to lay on top prior to the lid. I know a bee keeper that does this. Any ideas about the rightful or wrongfulness of this practice? From HAWAII BEE BRADA WALTA PS come visit special discount for bee folks. PSS Great fresh Ohia lehua honey crystallized solid almost white and a honey that dreams are made from. 5 lb. tub $7.00 plus postage Walter & Elisabeth Patton hihoney@ilhawaii.net 808-964-5401 Hale Lamalani { House of Heavenly Light } {Hawaii Std. Time} Bed & Breakfast www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm Hawaiian Honey House { Beekeepers & Honey Packers } 100 % HAWAII HONEY www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm 27-703 A. Ka`ie`ie Rd., Papa`ikou, Hawaii 96781 " ALOHA ALL " " The Beehive, the Fountain of Youth and Health " ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 00:12:17 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: super info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick writes > I've added another conversion/rule of thumb to > http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/convert.htm > for supers/honey/cappings wax. For a full depth super of honey, I'm > assuming 30kg(66lb) full weight, with 20kg(44lb) of honey, 10kg(22lb) > epty weight. Extracting the honey will give .3kg(.66lb) cappings > wax. Weights based on FD super of 'mixed' dark/light old/new > combs... > > Sound reasonable? Yea this sounds reasonable for us all to have for a goal. Thanks for making the conversion from kgs to lbs. Aloha Walta ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:18:42 +-200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: I feel Trapped! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yesterday a mail arrived in my Inbox from Allen Dick = allend@internode.net I have been in touch with Allan in the thread it opened : Does Bidata = Work? and I thought that we came to an end off the discussion in a good = manner. I am now aware of that Allan Dick posted his opening letter in Best of = Bees! it is Okay, if he also had posted the rest of the disputes there. = As it is now I feel that it is needed to defend myself and use up some = of your time and some Internet bandwide unnecessary. Why I feel this = need is because of this quote from the message in Best of Bees : In spite of vigorous promotion by the author over many months, I cannot recall even one person writing in to say that they use Bidata software and that it installed well and is in regular use to their full satisfaction. I have, however heard a number of fairly serious complaints. For that reason I have advocated caution in d/ling and using it thus far. As some of you hopefully recall I have done my best to beg about = forgiveness and to help those out, where the download have giving trouble. I even = created an Uninstall software for the win3.1 edition, that at the same = time will work as a removal of the expired information , so that people = could give it another shot. But enough about this matter. I have replaced the faulty archive on : http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/agriculture/entomology/beekeeping/gen= eral/bin/Apimo/ and got confirmation from Adam Finkelstein that this was done. Now when I am writing this, I want to give you some information about = who I am, the EDBi foundation and how it came to this software. I am Danish living in Denmark and born 1942 (Yes I am not that young any = longer) I was a teacher and have been keeping bees since 1970. official = I have some few hives, but have material enough for thirty hives. I am = using full Langstrooth and my bees are regional bees. I have an average = Honey harvest of 45kg a year, which is an improvement from my first = years where I had around 15kg. I got my first computer (a Zx81) in 1981 = and started to investigate in programming for this animal :-) It had as = little as 8k memory but it was fun. in 1996 in put a fortune into a real = computer (Amstrad 1512) and from that on the next story starts: the = EDBi foundation. I heard that there was a foundation for EDB interested beekeepers under = construction, and got in touch with them to see if they had some = software I could use for my beekeeping. It turned out that they had = none, but was looking for people that could help them in this matter. I = of course have build my own software, so I offered to work voluntary for = them in creating a software useful as a toll within Beekeeping. The = first result was a ms DOS based hivenote collecting software. I of = course based this software on inputs from the members of the EDBi = foundation. This software was offered to the Danish beekeeper society in = 1987. The members in the EDBi foundation was my testing crow, and with = the time the software improved and got better. The members in EDBi is = all kind of people, with from some very few hives to people who are = living from Beekeeping. And some of those have been members from the = very first start until to day. In 1994 I decided to create a win3.1 = software based on my previous work. This software was presented on the = Apimondia Congress in Lausanne Switzerland 1995. Here I got some very = god contacts to people who have helped me to improve the language = support.=20 in 1996 I tried to figure out this Internet story so I got an account = with 5mb space. This have now improved in that, that some people on = Internet have giving me space on their web's and I have also got my own = web in Australia where I now is putting up a 'EDBi' Support web with = discussions, bug reports and suggestions facilities. I really hope that = people will use this web giving me respond concerning bugs and = suggestions and for those interested it is placed on the following Url : = http:// www.wn.com.au/apimo on this above Url you also will find additional information about the = Bidata Software, and the Pollen grain software that I am putting up for = free to everyone who have interest in pollen. Be sure of that I am doing my best not to disturb Your fun at Your = computers.=20 I hope I have not been to much boring, and If I beg You about = forgiveness. Best Regards Jorn Johanesson apimo@post4.tele.dk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:21:48 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: OAKES DAVID W Subject: Beekeeping computer programs MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII In relation to beekeeping programs: I have downloaded Bidata programs. It did not work totally and I contacted Jorn Johanesson; he sent me at his expense by land mail, diskettes of the program with corrections. I have not been able to work with it yet as I am spending my time doing other things. The program looks neat and I am looking forward to getting it installed. I appreciated all Jorn has done to correct any problems. I am sorry that I have been so slow to implement the program. Dave In Indiana oakes.d@lilly.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:48:11 +0000 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.Com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: I feel Trapped! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable J=F8rn Johanesson wrote: > As some of you hopefully recall I have done my best to beg about forgiv= eness > and to help those out, where the download have giving trouble. I even c= reated an Uninstall software for the win3.1 edition, that at the same tim= e will work as a removal of Jorn - I think to anyone who has read your posts over the time would have to say your actions speak for themselves. No need to defend yourself here. -Barry =20 --=20 Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA Barry@Birkey.Com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:01:23 UT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: S Subject: 3 meds vs 2 deeps Does anyone have an opinion or experience using 3 mediums instead of 2 deeps for the brood chamber? Also any reference sources would be appreciated. I try to do my homework :) Thanks Susan in St. Louis ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:21:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Debbie Hutchings Subject: Re: Bee space MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone! I tried one new hive this summer to see how it would work out, (if what = was said about it claimed to be true). I am very excited about how it's been working out! At any time I can = open this hive and not have to pry or pull at it, to get anything = apart. Frames come out by simply lifting them out without useing my = hive tool. I'm not trying to advertise anything here... I'm just = stating what I've found, seeing this tread is about bee space, bur comb, = problems with everything stuck down. It maybe also contributed to that, = the bees who live there are not inclined to stick things together, but I = personally think it is due to the dementions of this hive. I'm going to = use these hives from here on, because it saves me much time, when going = through and checking on what the bees are up to. This hive is called the D.E. Hive and is, I think the brain child from = The Bee Works, here in Canada.=20 Since this summer I have raised and expanded my hives from Two to = twenty-five, and also sold four nukes. The other hives are all langs = which I find awkward compaired to this particular hive.=20 Bee Good. Debbie from Canada... 2nd year bee keeper 25 hives and growing..... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:00:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "W. G. Miller" Subject: Re: 3 meds vs 2 deeps Let me weigh in on the 3 mediums side of this debate: My operation is all mediums (supers and brood chambers). The advantages are: 1) Complete size standardization: A piece of equipment (box or frame) fits anywhere in the operation. When I need a frame of drawn comb, I can get it from my stack of supers. 2) Equipment weights are reasonable. A full medium super weighs about 40 pounds, vs. 70 for a full deep. You'll notice this when you have to lug full boxes up a hill. 3) With mediums, I have more flexibility when I want to do hive manipulations. Spring reversing doesn't break up the cluster as much. But there are a few disadvantages: 1) Higher part count: My hives have 10 more frames and one more box than comparable 2-deep colonies. 2) Somewhat higher first cost: This is due to the higher part count, although the equipment cost difference is only a few dollars per hive. However, if you keep deeps, you should also keep boxes of drawn deep comb for replacements/emeregencies, while with mediums I can get drawn comb frames out of my super stack. This offsets the initial cost difference. Converting a 2-deep colony to a 3-medium colony is a simple procedure (details available on request). W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:28:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: 3 meds vs 2 deeps In a message dated 97-09-26 10:01:46 EDT, you write: << Does anyone have an opinion or experience using 3 mediums instead of 2 deeps for the brood chamber? Also any reference sources would be appreciated. I try to do my homework :) >> I know an older beekeeper who gets along great with this. The deeps are too heavy for him when full. The upside is that he has all one size box, so he can move them around easier. It helps a lot when, for example, the queen gets above the excluder. The downside is that when brood and super comb is interchanged, the honey can be slightly darker, and the wax worms jump on the super comb a lot quicker. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:13:57 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbar Subject: Re: I feel Trapped! In-Reply-To: <01BCCA7E.CA96C5E0@ppp10.rd.tele.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:18 PM 9/26/97 +-200, you wrote: >Yesterday a mail arrived in my Inbox from Allen Dick allend@internode.net >I have been in touch with Allan in the thread it opened : Does Bidata Work? Yes it works, and it is good looking. Would I pay money for it? >I am Danish living in Denmark and born 1942 (Yes I am not that young any longer) As one old beekeeper to another let me say a little about why you may expect to receive some negative feed back about your program and my own approach to beekeeping software. Any feed back is good and shows there is an interest. First and foremost is the cost. Most experienced computer users here in the US do not spend big bucks for programs. I understand the years of hard work that go into making such programs but it is a "shareware" world out here and those who do produce commercial programs soon learn the "30 day lesson" and that is if you can produce a program that others want you have about 30 days to market it before someone else produces one that is bigger and better. Now if your name is BILL GATES you may get away with lasting a little longer by buying up all your competition or giving away your programs to hurt others market but in the end the results are the same...you get a 30 day shot at the market. The beekeeping market is not huge here as few commercial beekeepers who are the one's that could support a $200 beekeeping program are connected to the Internet or use a PC in their business. That is slowly changing for sure. The other problem is that some of us are experienced in the use of the PC and know that today's data base programs are not that hard to change into useful tools for collecting and analyzing beekeeping data and we look hard at any programs that are sold as "beekeeping" programs and there has been many and none that have tried to sell them has made the cut here in the US. Some of them in my humble opinion have been real attempts to rip off the beekeeping community, and I am thinking of tax record type beekeeping programs that were sold to some for many hundreds of dollars that were not as good as the $50 Money Counts or Quicken programs and several others that are sold to the public and are more then any beekeeper should ever need for day to day beekeeping tax records. I don't want to discourage anyone from making beekeeping programs and there are many different beekeeper's who have put out really nice programs but would suggest that if you want to sell it then check out the shareware approach and maybe a $20 price tag and charge for updates, support, or something. As for beekeepers looking for programs....bee wise and check out what is available to the general public, the tax record keeping and data base programs are as about as good as it gets and their cost is reasonable and because there are tens of thousands users help is easy to get and most of the time it is free. This is not to say that programs for beekeepers are not worthwhile because they truly are but they are not for everybody, but then I have yet to fall for that $50 beekeeping data base sold on the net by the bee regulators and to this day have never seen one word about how wonderful it is. IMHO, ttul, the OLd Drone Los Banos, California ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:21:54 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbar Subject: Re: 3 meds vs 2 deeps In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:01 PM 9/26/97 UT, you wrote: >Does anyone have an opinion or experience using 3 mediums instead of 2 deeps >for the brood chamber? Yes, 3 6-5/8 supers make a good hive unit. One of the advantages that I like is the ease in making up increase from one of these units in a early spring three hives can be make with no special skills or skilled labor. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:39:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: 3 meds vs 2 deeps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Some folks around here who have made the switch to mediums-only have told me they like the resulting arrangement much better. In fact, a local commercial operator has remarked that outfitting the brood (or extracting) frames is much easier, as he no longer has to use cross-wires. He orders crimp-wired foundation without hooks, and just pops this into the grooved top&bottom bar frames. That's it. Since the foundation is fairly shallow, it tends to sit centered in the frame well by itself, without bowing. Sure beats wiring or expensive plastic foundation. The only things I'd be concerned about with mediums, other than the initial greater expense per-hive, is the greater division of the broodnest (more wood = barrier to queen?) and inter-connecting burr comb between the stories. A few decades ago Dr. C. L. Farrar favored a mediums-only system, using 3-5 boxes for the brood nest, and evidently had great success with this. In fact, he eventually incorporated it into his reknowned 2-queen systems. His hive bodies were made to hold 12-13 of the medium-depth combs, which comes close in total volume to a 10-frame deep. Could anyone comment on the burr-combing problem? Even with full-depth multiple brood-chambers, it seems the bees prefer to "connect up" the combs in the space between the stories. Not sure if this is a natural predisposition or more the result of an improper bee-space... Cheers, Joel Govostes Freeville, NY ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:20:25 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Bee space In-Reply-To: <01BCCA65.FD52C920@modem-124.rideau.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 26 Sep 97 at 10:21, Debbie Hutchings wrote: > personally think it is due to the dementions of this hive. I'm > going to use these hives from here on, because it saves me much > time, when going through and checking on what the bees are up to. > This hive is called the D.E. Hive and is, I think the brain child > from The Bee Works, here in Canada. Since this summer I have raised > and expanded my hives from Two to twenty-five, and also sold four > nukes. The other hives are all langs which I find awkward compaired > to this particular hive. Oh boy!!! I do love unsolicited testimonials from satisfied customers. Should anyone require information, please, don't bother the list or the 'Northern Grump' will get you. Please e-mail me direct at the address below. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:04:59 -0500 Reply-To: snapshot@pbmo.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "M. C. Michel" Organization: Snap Shot Subject: Re: Fumadil B NEED HELP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, It seems that I have lost my package insert for my Fumidil B. I want to medicate by mixing with fructose syrup. I can not find the package insert. At what rate do I mix the powder with syrup? Any help would be greatly appreciated! M. Chris Michel Poplar Bluff, MO USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:23:23 +0000 Reply-To: parker@airtime.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Parker Subject: Commercial sources of Royal Jelly Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm interested to identify beekeepers who are prepared to supply Royal Jelly. Anyone interested, please email me details. thanks -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chris Parker PGP key available ----------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:33:02 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Bee space In-Reply-To: <01BCCA65.FD52C920@modem-124.rideau.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > At any time I can open this hive and not have to pry or pull at it, to > get anything apart. Frames come out by simply lifting them out without > useing my hive tool. I gather this is all new equipment. If that is the case, that fact contributes mightily to the lack of sticking together. Once frames get older and the bees have lived in the equipment a few years, then things start to gum up in any hive. That is not to say that the design and accurate bee space does not contibute to simpler disassembly. > This hive is called the D.E. Hive and is, I think the brain child from > The Bee Works, here in Canada. Anyone who wants to look at the DE hive can see it at http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks/bees2.html ...and buy it there too, I believe. I personally wonder if it can live up to its designer's claims in an independant test. Whether it can or not, your obvious enjoyment of its easy handling probably justifies its considerably higher cost when compared to standard equipment for hobby usage. I know of others who have tried it and am waiting to hear their comments. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:40:46 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: 3 meds vs 2 deeps In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Some folks around here who have made the switch to mediums-only have told > me they like the resulting arrangement much better. Smaller frames are well suited to smaller people and those who do not plan to run large numbers of hives. When I consider the fact that my wife is less than half my size, it is no wonder that there are those who advocate different sized and shaped frames. We had several thousand mediums for the past few years, but we have just sold the last of them this year, since I couldn't justify the extra handling they require. FWIW, though, the buyers were commercial beekeepers. I also know that there is a commercial outfit -- 1000 hives plus -- for sale in the Peace country (land of HUGE crops) that uses mediums for both brood and supers. Joe has been successful for many years and is retiring, but I imagine he would do it the same again. > A few decades ago Dr. C. L. Farrar favored a mediums-only system, using > 3-5 boxes for the brood nest, Yes, I custom built 100+ of those hives in the early seventies and eventually sold them. They were nice, but did not make any more honey or winter any better than standards. > Could anyone comment on the burr-combing problem? Even with full-depth > multiple brood-chambers, it seems the bees prefer to "connect up" the > combs in the space between the stories. Not sure if this is a natural > predisposition or more the result of an improper bee-space... IMO, bee space is less of a principle than a trick we play on bees. Bees prefer on long comb and bee space delays their joining all combs together, but only delays it. See also my recent post about how frames do not necessarily hang one over the other as directly as we imagine -- this resulting in variable spacing. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:05:37 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: I feel Trapped! In-Reply-To: <01BCCA7E.CA96C5E0@ppp10.rd.tele.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Yesterday a mail arrived in my Inbox from Allen Dick ... I am now > aware of that Allan Dick posted his opening letter in Best of Bees! it > is Okay, if he also had posted the rest of the disputes there. I don't recall any disputes, but at any rate, disputes do not go to Best of Bee. What goes to Best of Bee is an attempt at fair representation of any worthwhile information that comes from disputes here. Your description of your development of Bidata will likely go there, since it is of interest to internet beekeepers, but any reference to Bidata will still carry a caveat until I hear from anyone who can vouch for it convincingly. If I get any response from the survey, the results will go there too. I am truly sorry if you feel trapped. That is certainly not my intent. However if you really want to feel trapped, put yourself in the place of someone who downloads software from the internet after hearing it recommended and finds his/her computer does not work... and then imagine that he/she need the computer to make a living the next day -- or maybe it isn't even his/her computer.... You are *selling* a programme that carries a higher cost than the Windows 95 Operating System and almost as much as an entire Office Suite. Of course people are going to want to hear reviews before they even bother to try it out. It takes a lot of work to try out new software, and if it will expire shortly, the work of trying it may be wasted. I have a wonderful cardfile software program that I d/led, glanced at and loved, but will never finish trying because the bother of putting data into, it will be wasted after 30 uses -- since it turns out that is when the trial expires. What if I haven't decided by then? FWIW, I entered into this survey in full expectation of hearing at least several glowing reports that would allow me to remove Bidata from my 'Avoid' list. I had no idea that *not one* independant person would come forward to recommend it -- yet. What amazes me about this whole business is that even now, after requesting favourable testimonials from the almost 800 computer literate members of this list is that not one person -- other than yourself -- has written to me or to this list or to sci.agriculture.beekeeping saying that the software works as advertised. I am still waiting... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:14:53 -0500 Reply-To: beeman52@worldnet.att.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Lawrence Subject: Re: Fumadil B NEED HELP Comments: To: snapshot@pbmo.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit M. C. Michel wrote: > > Greetings, > > It seems that I have lost my package insert for my Fumidil B. I want to > medicate by mixing with fructose syrup. I can not find the package > insert. > > At what rate do I mix the powder with syrup? > > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > M. Chris Michel > Poplar Bluff, MO USA Hello Ken lawrence here. 0.5 grams to 5-6 gallons of sugar syrup 2.0 grams to 20-24 gallons of sugar syrup 9.5 grams to 100-120 gallons of sugar syrup Hope this helps Ken ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:45:55 -0500 Reply-To: beeman52@worldnet.att.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Lawrence Subject: Fumidil-B MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello again I need to add to instructions. When treating 1-2 hives use 1 rounded teaspoon per gallon of syrup. Can be stored for 30 days at 90F (32c) Ken ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:11:53 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbar Subject: Re: Fumidil-B Comments: To: beeman52@worldnet.att.net In-Reply-To: <342C6553.59B2@worldnet.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:45 PM 9/26/97 -0500, Ken Lawrence wrote: >hello again > I need to add to instructions. When treating 1-2 hives use 1 rounded >teaspoon per gallon of syrup. >Can be stored for 30 days at 90F (32c) > Hi Ken, Unless there has been some change FUMIDIL-B should be kept only in the unopened containers, outside of any light, and refrigerated if possible. It should be packed in a air evacuated container made of dark glass. It is very heat sensitive and should not be dissolved in very hot water when preparing for addition to sugar syrup. If it is it will melt the wax or fat like carrier and become very hard in mix in syrup. It is made with a buffer added and should bubble up when added to tap or cold water. FUMIDIL-B should not be held over from year to year and any container that is opened and found to be changed by environmental conditions should not be used and returned to whom ever supplied it. There is NO know test to determine if what you are sold as active FUMIDIL-B is indeed what it is said to be and beekeepers should be careful from whom and what they buy. When it was manufactured in the US it was tested during the manufacturing process which was seasonal and inflated the costs. In those days anyone who had the gall could call the manufacture and actually talk one on one to those who were making the product hands on, I did and later was able to visit with one of them at a convention. But today with off shore manufacture I am very skeptical and doubt that anyone in this life could even find the address and telephone of the actual live bodies that are making this product just as I am sure you could with ease talk with a salesman for the product. This is one product that I would stay away from unless you know you have a problem or are interested in shipping bees or rearing queens as for most this is the only use that can justify the high cost of the product. IMHO, the OLd Drone Los Banos, California ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:29:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Debbie Hutchings Subject: bee space MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! Just a short note. All my hives are new except for five which I bought = last year. I got the D.E. hive about a week or so after I got the other = hives. I didn't know about this hive then, until after I got my = computer which introduced me to the internet and Bee-L. Just to let = people know, that I feel I had a control to judge by, and that this is = just my personal observations. Debbie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:30:08 -0500 Reply-To: beeman52@worldnet.att.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Lawrence Subject: Re: Fumidil-B Comments: To: Andy Nachbar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy Nachbar wrote: > > At 08:45 PM 9/26/97 -0500, Ken Lawrence wrote: > >hello again > > I need to add to instructions. When treating 1-2 hives use 1 rounded > >teaspoon per gallon of syrup. > > >Can be stored for 30 days at 90F (32c) > > > > Hi Ken, > > Unless there has been some change FUMIDIL-B should be kept only in the > unopened containers, outside of any light, and refrigerated if possible. It > should be packed in a air evacuated container made of dark glass. It is > very heat sensitive and should not be dissolved in very hot water when > preparing for addition to sugar syrup. If it is it will melt the wax or fat > like carrier and become very hard in mix in syrup. It is made with a buffer > added and should bubble up when added to tap or cold water. > > FUMIDIL-B should not be held over from year to year and any container that > is opened and found to be changed by environmental conditions should not be > used and returned to whom ever supplied it. > > There is NO know test to determine if what you are sold as active FUMIDIL-B > is indeed what it is said to be and beekeepers should be careful from whom > and what they buy. When it was manufactured in the US it was tested during > the manufacturing process which was seasonal and inflated the costs. In > those days anyone who had the gall could call the manufacture and actually > talk one on one to those who were making the product hands on, I did and > later was able to visit with one of them at a convention. But today with > off shore manufacture I am very skeptical and doubt that anyone in this > life could even find the address and telephone of the actual live bodies > that are making this product just as I am sure you could with ease talk > with a salesman for the product. > > This is one product that I would stay away from unless you know you have a > problem or are interested in shipping bees or rearing queens as for most > this is the only use that can justify the high cost of the product. > > IMHO, the OLd Drone > Los Banos, California Hello Andy and All: The info I typed is taken off the packing list on bottle. I myself use it twice a year. Spring and Fall. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:24:02 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbar Subject: Re: Fumidil-B Comments: To: beeman52@worldnet.att.net In-Reply-To: <342C7DC0.2962@worldnet.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Hello Andy and All: > The info I typed is taken off the packing list on bottle. I myself >use it twice a year. Spring and Fall. If it works for you use it.... If I had all money I have spent on FUMIDIL-B I would be able to retire, as it is I do have all the empty bottles I have used lined up on top a 12 foot block wall inside my wood shop which is 40x80 and they extend around the building. A very impressive sight to any beekeeper who knows the cost of this drug. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:24:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: Comb Honey In a message dated 97-09-23 17:58:21 EDT, you write: << I melted some wax, poured it over a sheet of glass, and fitted the resultant wax sheet to the top inch or so of about one dozen frames. I inserted these frames between two sealed frames. >> Harry - I have often made by cut comb foundation stretch further by cutting the sheets into thirds and putting only one third at the top of the frames. The bees seem to be pretty happy to continue the sheet right down to the bottom of the frame and draw it out nicely resulting in good cuttable comb. Faith Andrews Bedford, Ivy VA and Tampa ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:45:00 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bernard Heymans Subject: About queen production in Belgium Comments: cc: Andy Nachbar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, At 09:21 26/09/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 02:01 PM 9/26/97 UT, you wrote: >>Does anyone have an opinion or experience using 3 mediums instead of 2 deeps >>for the brood chamber? > >Yes, 3 6-5/8 supers make a good hive unit. One of the advantages that I >like is the ease in making up increase from one of these units in a early >spring three hives can be make with no special skills or skilled labor. > This sounds special to me... Why do you say it is easier to make a split in the springs? Split is to be done at the time you are in swarming danger: before that the best population increase you can have is in big populations. So normaly swarming is in may... Hive creation should be done at that time. The normal way I create a hive is this: I use DADANT standart hives: 12 frames 44,5*28,5 cm =145 square dm(big, isn't it?) supper: 10 Frames 44,5*14 cm= 62 square dm. Normaly you use Langstroth hives: 10 frames 42*20 cm = 84 square dm... In april I select the best population... there is the best queen. I take this queen away... So bees will produce new queens. I take away the supper, remove all unused frame... I realy want to induice the swarming fever... I will make some cuts in frames that have new eggs... These will be the best place to produce big queens. The frames pieces I did remove by the cuts + some population+ old queen will be placed in a special multi multibox hive (each 20*20*20 cm). Most time I build a pile of 3 of such boxes. Each small box contains 6 small frames. At a time these boxes will be completely full of brood... I will need that brood : each pair of these frames can be used in an hatching box... After 12 day... not longer. Close visit of the colony... All closed queen cells are them removed... for use. all non closed cells are destroied. The old queen is placed back in place using an introduction box. Each closed queen cell is the placed in an hatching box (see upwards). Place these far (100 m) from any hive... and give them anough food... WAIT.... give them food.... WAIT.... give them food After 1 month... open each hatching box... and select the queens. the have to be bigs, lay eggs using a regular pattern... Any doubs... wait 15 days. All queens that are not laying regularly... destroy All good queens are marked + clipped and kept for use. Around that time (15 may) it's time to start new hives (if you want) from a good population take 3 normal brood frames and use them to start a new hive. Take also some more bees : You will prevent swarming. The biggest the colony that produce the cells the best queens you will be able to produce... But pay attention a good queen will need a big brood box... You should certainly use 2Langstroth standard 10 frames boxes. I regularly have colonies that use a 12 DADANT box + 1 supper box. Some of my friends dit build 18 frames DADANT box... The biggest deal you will have is to prevent swarming... The hive multiplication is done in two ways: Via a swarm ( up to 10 KG). Using 3 brood frames... taking these prevent swarming. Don't forget to change brood frames regularly. Bernard. ********************************************************************* * Bernard Heymans bheymans@informix.com * * Informix Bruxelles tel -32-2 - 711 11 30 * * Support Contract Specialist fax -32-2 - 711.11.22 * ********************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:23:27 +-200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: SV: I feel Trapped! Comments: To: "allend@internode.net" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ---------- Fra: Allen Dick[SMTP:allend@internode.net] Sendt: 27. september 1997 03:05 Til: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Emne: Re: I feel Trapped! I don't recall any disputes,=20 I thought so because I expected my answers to you to go to bee-l, but I = must have been confused because you like here is using your e-mail as = reply address. but at any rate, disputes do not go to Best of Bee. What goes to Best of Bee is an attempt at fair representation = of any worthwhile information that comes from disputes here. Your description of your development of Bidata will likely go there, since it is of interest to internet beekeepers, but any reference to Bidata will still carry a caveat until I hear from anyone who can vouch for it convincingly. If I get any response from the survey, the results will go there too. What is wrong here is, that you jumped on me because of a FTP server = error, that I have no control over at all. And for that you blamed me = and brought an issue forward that was solved long time ago. This was not = fair. I have nothing against fair competition but his is not. It is = direct against me and the EDBi foundation and the people who are helping = me in this development. However if you really want to feel trapped, put yourself in the place of someone who downloads software from the internet after hearing it recommended and finds his/her computer does not work... and then imagine that he/she need the computer to make a living the next day -- or maybe it isn't even his/her computer.... This I have already answered you, and you have also heard that the = software installed without problems, and if you are not satisfied by = this, it is your problem not the problem of the beekeeper society. You are *selling* a programme that carries a higher cost than the = Windows 95 Operating System and almost as much as an entire Office = Suite. You can't compare software in this way. I paid only USD15 for my upgrade = from win3.1 and Microsoft has a special politick in marketing their = products, that you should now . It takes a lot of work to try out new software, and if it will expire shortly, the work of trying it may be wasted. I have a wonderful cardfile software program that I d/led, glanced at and loved, but will never finish trying because the bother of putting data into, it will be wasted after 30 uses -- since it turns out that is when the = trial expires. What if I haven't decided by then? very short :-) You have to make the decision. But I give full three = month and thirty trials, if you can't make the decision within this, I = don't know what to say. Remember you have to use all of it up. What amazes me about this whole business is that even now, after requesting favourable testimonials from the almost 800 computer literate members of this list is that not one person -- other than yourself -- = has written to me or to this list or to sci.agriculture.beekeeping saying = that the software works as advertised. I think it is the way you opened this thread with, that stopped people = from reacting. I am still waiting... So it is, I am also still waiting. But how should people Judge?? my = software alone or the other software present too. I am not sure there is = so many out there. And beekeeping can still be done without use of the = computer.=20 Best regards Jorn. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 07:11:19 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: SV: I feel Trapped! In-Reply-To: <01BCCB48.9F571720@ppp38.rd.tele.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Look Jorn, this is just turning into whining and has no place on this list. I started off hoping that we would quickly get some favourable replies that would boost your software, but it really does not look like it is going to happen. It appears that after hundreds of downloads, *not one person* is willing to step forward and say that he or she has paid the price for Bidata, is using Bidata regularly, and likes it. In all your communications, you yourself have not AFAIK said how many registered *paid-in-full* users (at full asking price) you have. Unless I missed it in reading your replies, it even appears you have avoided this number while pointing out in detail the numbers of downloads. I would think that the number of buyers would be very interesting when compared to the download numbers. Why not write some of your *registered* users and ask them to send some testimonials? That is far more useful than twisting and turning here. We all feel sympathy for your situation and appreciate the amount of work you have invested and would like to see your work vindicated -- and selling. Remember, I did not cause the problems at least some of your users have experienced. I just happen to have asked the obvious questions. Everyone who spends time on BEE-L or sci.agriculture.beekeeping has seen their complaints. We are all waiting for some favourable comment. Everything that can be said has been said *until we get some testimonials* from happy paid up users . Please, let's keep this matter off the list until we have some facts, testimonials or other information of interest to the members. Allen --- You can search the BEE-L archives by sending email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SEARCH BEE-L topic Substitute a key word or two for the word 'topic' above Try it -- You'll Like it! --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:45:31 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Thinking about Spring Increase Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This being my first Autumn as a beekeeper, I'm, naturally, thinking about expanding my 3-hive (2 two-deeps Langs; 1 TBH) apiary next year (without buying packages). I've read many many books and followed this list for a year now. I've also watched the bloom locally and watched my bees. Here's what I'm thinking -- and I be grateful for input (there's equipment to build/buy!) Any increase made from splitting the existing hives risks some loss of honey production. Bloom here seems to start in early spring with a variety of build-up pollen and nectar sources. First real significant flush is blackberry in late April, followed immediately by tulip poplar through mid-May. The clovers then come in, but, because I live in a most wooded rather than pastured or lawned part of the world (with acid soil) the clovers aren't great here for surplus. Then comes sourwood in early-to-mid June, which I want to be in shape to try for, though it is by nature a chancy thing. Finally, this year there was an enormous amount of sumac and goldenrod in the drought of august from which I had a nice surplus of very good deep yellow honey. My thinking is I should feed to stimulate brood-rearing in advance of the blackberry and tulip poplar flows, harvest any surplus once the flow is over, do splits (using purchased queens) during the lull before sourwood, feed like crazy to try to build up for the sourwood, and definitely have populations rebuilt for the late sumac and golderod. I'm probably risking the sourwood (if there is any) with this strategy. Sorry for the length of the post, but I've tried to do some homework ahead of time and now need some advice from those with more experience. Thoughts? Thanks, Greg ____________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Mt. Gilead, NC ghankins@ac.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:45:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Cotton Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cotton has re-emerged as a preferred cash crop in my part of North Carolina. There are substantial fields 4-5 miles south of me that used to be soybeans but are now cotton. I'm thinking of establishing an outyard next year closer to that source, at least during the bloom (though I've read that cotton has extra-floral nectaries as well). I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has experience with cotton honey. Good, bad, mediocre? Worth making a special effort to get? Length of bloom time? Thanks, Greg ____________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Mt. Gilead, NC ghankins@ac.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:01:18 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George C Walker III Subject: Bucket Feeding--HELP! I am converting from division board feeders to hive-top buckets. I need suggestions on how to use a plug system: 1)What size bucket? 2)What size plug? 3) Size and number of feed holes? 4)Does bucket have to be attached to hive to prevent blowing off? 5)How do you store all of those buckets? 6)What else am I ignorant of? Clint Walker III Small Bees, Queens, Honey Operation South and Central Texas WALKER_HONEYBEES@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:01:18 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George C Walker III Subject: COTTON HONEY Greg: Yes, the cotton plants grown commercially in the U.S. for fiber have multiple nectaries and are often good nectar producers and often not. There are three nectaries below the sepals, three above the sepals (below the petals) and they also secrete nectar at the base of the bloom which the are able to access in late evening when the bloom turns from white to pink and shrinks. Problem: Researchers at the land grant universities have bred cotton varieties that produce less nectar for the obvious reason of wanting a less insect attractive plant. Since cotton does not economically benefit from entomophilic activity the nectar only serves to attract unwanted creatures. Still, some varieties of cotton remain prolific nectar producers. Cotton honey (in Texas) is water white and typically very low in moisture content due to the dryness of the season in which cotton blooms. I think CA cotton honey is ELA. Clint Walker III Small Commercial Bees, Queens, Honey Operation Central and South Texas WALKER_HONEYBESS@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:01:18 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George C Walker III Subject: Mediums vs Deeps We have converted to all meds. Benefits: 1)Drastically cuts labor time in making splits--no frame handling, no extra boxes and equip. hauled to the field to make splits. 2)Brood boxes become honey supers--same logic used in an all-deep system. 3)Fume board moves bees out of honey supers faster than a deep--take one box at a time and fume board is always closer to the bees. 4)Boxes are lighter and easier to handle. 5)Less care needed in spacing as frames are not as long and therefore do not have as much variability of space at bottom of box. Negatives: Cost is greater going in. But cost benefit ratio is attractive. A little labor saved buys a lot of equipment. System: We use a two med. brood nest for honey production with an excluder above. When the summer honey is pulled we raise the excluder above the third box of freshly extracted comb giving the queen plenty of open area to lay in the fall. In March we make three splits out of each hive using a "yard-trashing" method and queen cells. When the splits attains two box stregth the excluder goes on and the hive is ready for honey production. Clint Walker III Small Commercial Bees, Queens, Honey Operation Central and South Texas WALKER_HONEYBEES@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:31:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Woody Wodraska Subject: Re: Cotton Honey Greg: FWIW cotton is one of the most heavily pesticided crops grown. Woody On Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:45:39 -0400 Greg Hankins writes: >Cotton has re-emerged as a preferred cash crop in my part of North >Carolina. There are substantial fields 4-5 miles south of me that used >to >be soybeans but are now cotton. I'm thinking of establishing an >outyard >next year closer to that source, at least during the bloom (though >I've >read that cotton has extra-floral nectaries as well). > >I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has experience with >cotton >honey. Good, bad, mediocre? Worth making a special effort to get? >Length of >bloom time? > >Thanks, > >Greg > >____________________________________________________ >Greg Hankins Mt. Gilead, NC >ghankins@ac.net > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 17:14:02 +-200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: Sorry! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry that I cluttered this list up! Please use my e-mail address apimo@post4.tele.dk and my new support web if interested in software for the Beekeeper. (Tools not Games) The support web is located at http://www.wn.com.au/apimo best regards Jorn ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:08:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chip McCurdy Subject: Re: Cotton Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Greg, Here in GA we use cotton fields every year between pollination jobs. It makes excellent, very light honey, and plenty of it! When you tell your honey customers where it came from, it makes them want to try it even more and they always come back. Ask the grower if he has "B-T" cotton. This doesn't need spraying therefore you can move your hives on in there closer. Otherwise keep them at least 1/4 mile away. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:00:46 -0600 Reply-To: darn@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: Bucket Feeding--HELP! In-Reply-To: <19970927.095849.7831.2.WALKER_HONEYBEES@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have used bucket feeders and hivetop feeders for some years in my operation. I find the buckets much slower than the hivetop feeders. They are a nuisance to fill and to refill. They should be washed out at the end of the season and stored in a cool dark place. I use an old super to cover them when in use and have had no problems with them coming off. There is a problem in storing the old empty supers. The feed in my buckets is via a 2" hole with a disk of fine stainless steel mesh melted in. They would doubtless feed faster with a larger area. I am trying some of the frame feeders as mentioned some time ago by Allen Dick and they seem good, at least for the splits I am using them on. My preference is definitely for the hivetop feeders which can feed 3.5 gallons at a time. They are easy to refill, and feed faster than pails. I make mine from exterior grade plywood for about $6.00 US in material. They will probably last forever. ( For me, forever is about 25 years ) Donald Aitken 11710-129 Street Edmonton Alberta Canada T5M 0Y7 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 17:22:20 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George C Walker III Subject: Famous Name--CW Mike My kids think I'm pretty famous and for a few weeks in 1980 I was famous at a small mid-western college (I still managed to graduate on time) but if you mean am I the actor that played Cheyene Bodie on the 60s TV show and starred in movies . . . No! I can tell you that the name--which my family has been toting around since 1890 and which my eldest son now has (IV)--helped me get a few good tables at restaurants when I lived in Los Angeles a few years back. And, FWIW, the fact that you asked that question makes you 40+ or an old movie buff. Clint ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 17:22:21 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George C Walker III Subject: "Yard Trashing" George I borrow the term "yard trashing" from a beekeeper friend who has never used the method but who read about it in a bee journal article a few years back. I have not read the article nor talked to the originators of the method but have used our version of it with success. Basically: We have all mediums. From fall to spring our brrod nests are three mediums with an excluder above. The hives are palletized but the method would work--though involve a little more labor--without palletization. In mid-March in central Texas at 33 degrees north latitude, we perform a three-way split on each hive. This involves rotating each pallet in place 90 degrees so that each north hive now faces east, east--south, etc. An empty pallet is placed on each side of that pallet with identical orientation. The orginal hives are then split onto the two empty pallets turning four, three medium hives into 12, one med. hives. Of course, this assumes no empty slot which there are. You just use what empty pallets you need to make all the splits in the yard. You do not touch a frame or look for a queen. A ripe queen cell is placed in each hive and feed is given if no flow available. come back in 15 days and check for queen right. Three men make turn 40 hives in 110-120 in less than an hour. Clint ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:56:01 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Re: Cotton Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I like cotton honey"s taste. However, My late Uncle did not like it. He said it crystalizes too quick. At 09:45 AM 9/27/97 -0400, you wrote: >Cotton has re-emerged as a preferred cash crop in my part of North >Carolina. There are substantial fields 4-5 miles south of me that used to >be soybeans but are now cotton. I'm thinking of establishing an outyard >next year closer to that source, at least during the bloom (though I've >read that cotton has extra-floral nectaries as well). > >I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has experience with cotton >honey. Good, bad, mediocre? Worth making a special effort to get? Length of >bloom time? > >Thanks, > >Greg > >____________________________________________________ >Greg Hankins Mt. Gilead, NC >ghankins@ac.net > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:44:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: SV: I feel Trapped! The "Grump From the North" in part wrote: >I started off hoping that we would quickly get some favourable >replies that would boost your software,... Bull Dung! ----------------------------- Jorn: Don't feel too bad, you have just been inducted into a very small "exclusive" club of which I am a very "proud member"! The "Grump From The North" specializes in soliciting others to do what he clearly isn't willing to do for himself! He expects others to take chances on his behalf, and in that way he avoids any potential risk to himself. There is an expression for this trait here in the USA which is well known amongst the male population. So...... Welcome Aboard Jorn !! Al, ----------------------------------------------------------- awneedham@juno.com - Scituate,MA,USA Cerberus - Three Sites In One Honey Bees-LottoLand-Doktor Finkle http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:01:49 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Bee space MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >If only people would read a book. Most of us have read enough to know what a 'bee space' is, but I've NEVER seen it referred to as a 'bee way'. I suspect that lots of knowlegeable beekeepers were wondering what you meant. Maybe it's a difference of terminology between the UK and the US. ??? At any rate I'm personally getting really tired of the short tempers and inflamation on this list lately. I have a growing list of contributors whose notes I delete without reading. I know of others doing the same. Maybe sometimes something unpleasant needs to be dealt with, but it would really improve the quality of this list if people would use a little self-discipline and not just spout off their temper or lack of common courtesy and tact. We just recently went through a lot of wasted time and energy over fables, and then over newbee questions, and then over beekeeping software, to name a few. Without censorship, I guess we'll always have a few dart throwers, but If you choose that route, be advised that interest in your contribution may be shrinking as a result. Michael ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:57:52 +0000 Reply-To: aweinert@tpgi.com.au Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: aweinert Subject: People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I requested the gif excel sheet Allen offered. My pegasus 2.5 wouldn't open it (the posting said it should) , So I tried again, Didn't work the second time either. Perhaps some one has advise. Sorry to clutter up the waves. Be positive about all and ignore what is not useful to you. Sharing is growing, I thought that is what we were about . Andrew ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 09:37:44 -0230 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sarah & Martin McDowell Subject: Goldenrod is it a good source of honey? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BCCBF2.2C964120" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BCCBF2.2C964120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I am a newbee. I am going to start beekeeping in the spring. Is goldenrod a good source of honey? Any info. would be appreciated. Marty ------=_NextPart_000_01BCCBF2.2C964120 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

I am a newbee.  I am = going to start beekeeping in the spring.  Is goldenrod a good = source of honey?
Any info. would be appreciated.

Marty =



------=_NextPart_000_01BCCBF2.2C964120-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 18:34:43 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: bee space thread Hi All On the topic of bee space and burr comb, I just thought I would throw in the topic of entrance propilis. I have a place in a very deep valley in some mountains about an hours drive from where I live where time means the bees are not visited much. After winter I had a look at them and found that every frame had been stuck to the bottom by a layer of propilis that extended almost to the back of the hive and actually added a second floor to the hive. Closer inspection showed that the bottom of the hive boards had been chewed up by something that made big holes and I geuss the bees did not like the draughts. But that definitely beats burr comb for cleaning up. Got almost a kilo (2ish pounds) per hive that I plan to turn into incense as is is wild gathered and smells of the hills. Does propilis obey bee space??? Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Kamdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800ml annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 3rd year Biochemistry/Microbiology Rhodes University In general, generalisations are bad. Interests: Flii's and Bees. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 10:57:46 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "d.murrell" Subject: junoir bench extractor modifications MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have recently modified my older junior bench extractor to handle 4 shallow frames. If the distance is increased by 3/4" between the top of the stainless steel basket and the casting connecting it to the driving shaft, which is cutoff by the same amount, four shallow frames can be extracted at once. A stainless steel plate can be easily built and used as a spacer connecting the basket to the castings. One shallow can be removed and the other frames can be rotated inside the basket with these modifications. Best Wishes Dennis ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 19:03:25 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Coke Honey Hi All In a roof just outside the lab where I am there is a very persistent wild hive. I have attempter to remove it twice and each time get this really disgusting wild honey with it. The honey is bright orange and in some places slightly green. It turns out that the bees main forage point year round are the numerous campus rubbish bins around the day cafetaria where people buy coldrink and turf the cans, often with quite a bit in them. The bees foraged this stuff and made it into honey that I decided to call 'funnydew' (logic - if honey of odd sources like insectiverous plants must be labelled - honeydew honey - then this is from a funny source hence the name) Sort of brings into a bit of doubt the whole Coca Cola 'Always the real thing' slogan! They were really malnourished bees as well, with a terrible brood pattern and very small bodies. I have also heard of tasteless honey collected from leaks in the piping at the glucose tanks in a neighbouring cities chocolate factory. What other funny honeys have memebers of the list come accros? Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Kamdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800ml annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 3rd year Biochemistry/Microbiology Rhodes University In general, generalisations are bad. Interests: Flii's and Bees. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:08:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: SV: I feel Trapped! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: Albert W Needham > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: SV: I feel Trapped! > Date: Saturday, September 27, 1997 1:44 AM > > The "Grump From The North" specializes in soliciting others > to do what he clearly isn't willing to do for himself! He expects others > to take chances on his behalf, and in that way he avoids any potential > risk to himself. > > There is an expression for this trait here in the USA which is well > known > amongst the male population. To come to Allen's defense, what planet are you on Al?!?!?!?!?!?!? I have no idea how you could have read that BS into Allen's posts. I understood him quite easily, to mean exactly what he said: that he hasn't heard any good comments about the software in question, and was curious why. Get a grip. Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 11 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:14:29 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Goldenrod is it a good source of honey? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Marty Yes, Goldenrod is, in my limited experience, an excellent source of nectar. Some say it granulates quickly, while others say it is actually the Aster honey (that comes in at the same time) which is responsible. But nevertheless, when I drive out these days to one yard, and see acres of yellow goldenrod, all that registers is my head is supers and more supers full of capped honey...;) Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 11 colonies ---------- From: Sarah & Martin McDowell To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Goldenrod is it a good source of honey? Date: Sunday, September 28, 1997 8:07 AM Hello, I am a newbee. I am going to start beekeeping in the spring. Is goldenrod a good source of honey? Any info. would be appreciated. Marty ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 08:24:38 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sue Slingsby Subject: aspen leaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the aspen trees are turning and getting ready for winter --- however they are alive with bees gathering what looks like dot size grains of yellow - on the underside of the leaf only and are packing the brood nest with it... It is not honeydew or nectar --- thought at first it was sort of insect excreta? has anyone else seen this --- south central B.C. area.. any ideas? where can I send leaf for examination?? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:58:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Goldenrod is it a good source of honey? In a message dated 97-09-28 10:42:58 EDT, mrmcdowe@interaccess.com (Sarah & Martin McDowell) write: << I am a newbee. I am going to start beekeeping in the spring. Is goldenrod a good source of honey? Any info. would be appreciated. >> Goldenrod is excellent honey, with a spicy flavor. I never understoond why goldenrod is "officially" considered bakery grade, when I have found it to be so delicious. I have had a few "goldenrod" honeys that did not taste good. I think the problem is that in some areas, other flowers contaminate the batch. If there is a big goldenrod flow, it will be very light and have a mild flavor. If it just dribbles in, it will be darker and stronger. Goldenrod has a couple of drawbacks. One is that it stinks to high heaven when they are drying it. This might get you to thinking you have foulbrood. It also tends to draw every bear within 25 miles. The odor is gone when the honey is capped. Another flaw is that the goldenrod is very apt to crystallize. It can even crystallize in the comb, if you wait too long, though the little asters that bloom after frost are even worse in this regard. You should know that there are many species of goldenrod and some yield a tremendous amount of honey, while others are really quite poor yielders. Personally I've gotten better yields off acid soils than off sweet ones, though perhaps that reflected the particular species that grew there. Here is South Carolina, goldenrod is rampant. In some areas you see bees work it heavily, but they don't gain weight. In a few other areas they will put in a fairly good crop. (I won't tell you where.) They need plenty of rain, before bloom, for good yields, but you want sunny, warm days and cool nights during the bloom. In some areas of New York, in an ideal season, with the bees in tiptop shape, its possible to make 200 lbs of honey in two weeks. A problem for beekeepers is that goldenrod is perceived as causing allergies, so folks are all in a froth to get it mowed. Pity the poor guy who has a vacant lot with blooming goldenrod in town. Foks will crucify him. These allergies are caused by ragweed which has wind blown pollen and inconspicuous flowers. Goldenrod pollen is heavy and sticky, and the only way to get it into your nasal passages would be to stick a flower up your nose. So try to get folks to understand that this is NOT an allergy causing flower, and that it is the last good feed for our pollinators before winter. Maybe a few will let the flower bloom. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com.pollinator/polpage1.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:09:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Coyle Subject: Moth's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have some frame of drawn comb in storage and have noticed that wax moths have started laying eggs and some are starting to hatch. Is there any way to kill these moths before they damage all of the comb? -- Ken Coyle If you can't fix it with duct tape, why bother? kcoyle@hookup.net http://www.hookup.net/~kcoyle ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 19:48:46 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Organization: Luichart Woollens Subject: Re: Comb Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Faith Andrews Bedford wrote: > Harry - I have often made by cut comb foundation stretch further by cutting > the sheets into thirds and putting only one third at the top of the frames. > The bees seem to be pretty happy to continue the sheet right down to the > bottom of the frame and draw it out nicely resulting in good cuttable comb. Hi Faith, I have done this myself but always worry that they will not produce perfect comb however I always use starter foundation when working with sections as I find the bees prefer it. The thing which facinated me was that it did not seem to matter too much whether the foundation was just a sheet of wax or whether it had cell impressions on it. -- Harry Scotland Knitwear Web pages: http://freespace.virgin.net/luichart.woollens/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:54:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: SV: I feel Trapped! On Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:08:15 -0400 Ian Watson writes: >> From: Albert W Needham >To come to Allen's defense, what planet are you on Al?!?!?!?!?!?!? > .........Get a grip. Both feet are planted firmly Ian, and I have a solid grip! He who sits on an icy intellectual mountaintop and hurls thunderbolts down now and again surely cannot expect to be "immune from a boomerang" ! I could not stand by 'quietly' after witnessing the humiliating public slaughter. Jorn did not deserve to be cowered into his last apologetic response! Somebody, has to speak out in his defense. Al, ----------------------------------------------------------- awneedham@juno.com - Scituate,MA,USA Cerberus - Three Sites In One Honey Bees-LottoLand-Doktor Finkle http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 21:16:58 +0000 Reply-To: parker@airtime.co.uk Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Parker Subject: Beekeepers in the San Jose area or thereabouts ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi I will be visiting San Jose ( and maybe Lake Tahoe/Yosemite area) during the last two weeks of October and I'd like to make contact with any beekeepers in the vicinity ! I thought it would be a nice thing to do ! Maybe there are Honey Shows, like we have in the UK ? Can anyone help ? thanks Chris -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chris Parker Bath Beekeepers Bath UK ----------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:50:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Coke Honey In-Reply-To: <142A9CB421D@warthog.ru.ac.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:03 PM 9/28/97 GMT+0200, you wrote: >What other funny honeys have memebers of the list come accros? In a wooded area near an estuary in Maryland, we get an emerald green (and I mean a really dark green) honey. It is dark green in the comb, but only slightly greenish if taken from the comb. The whole area has a strong mint smell. Jerry Bromenshenk > >Keep well > >Garth >--- >Garth Cambray Kamdini Apiaries >15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis >Grahamstown 800ml annual precipitation >6139 >Eastern Cape >South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 > >3rd year Biochemistry/Microbiology Rhodes University >In general, generalisations are bad. >Interests: Flii's and Bees. > > Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:59:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Bee Software Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I agree that spreadsheets offer a powerful tool. Current spreadsheets and databases offer great flexibility and some can be connected to the web in an interactive mode. Because each beekeeper has a slightly (or greatly) different operation (scale, size, products), or keeps bees in a different geographical area, etc., a spreadsheet or database format offers the ability to customize it for particular needs without having to be a computer programmer (well, at least not in the sense of knowing one or more specialized computer programming languages). In fact, some of the stronger spreadsheets and databases do utilize programming language such as Visual Basic. Certainly, a number of the Bee List members must have constructed specialized spreadsheet or databases to meet specific needs, whether it be apiary management, taxes, invoices, or whatever. Rather than argue the merits of any particular software program, database, spreadsheet, I suggest that we begin to build some useful tools. Let us use Bee-L to actually do something. For example, I believe that someone did a survey of what most beekeepers keep as a record for apiary management. Can someone dig up and post the survey results? It shouldn't take too long to put it into a spreadsheet format which could then be made available to the list for comment. With a few iterations, we should be able to come up with something that would help us all. Cheers Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 00:07:08 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: I feel trapped Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As an Irish Software Developer for many years I have learned one simple thing. If your software is doing what it is designed to do, you will have no problems. If on the other hand the software does not do what it is designed to do then you certainly will have problems and rightly so! If you write good software then you will have customers who will recommend it to others. If you cannot get such recommendations then you are in deep trouble. Where does the 'I Feel Trapped' software fit into the above parameters? Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail: cssl@iol.ie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 00:13:03 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: bee space Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Michael and All! Surely you are sophisticated enough to ignore the postings that annoy you for the sake of the postings that convey information about bees (the vast majority) Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail: cssl@iol.ie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 19:35:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Verville Subject: Frames with pollen/honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any idea on what I should do with honey super frames that are four to five years old that the bees have store quite a bit a capped over pollen and honey. I've extracted the honey but the pollen remains. The cappings were really tough scratching off and the honey appears dark. Dave Verville dverville@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 19:47:44 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jon C Peacock Subject: Re: Goldenrod is it a good source of honey? You are right on about the odor of Goldenrod, and thanks for the information about the sweet and acid soil. I hope to shake your hand some day. Sec. GA B-Kprs Assoc. J C Peacock, :-} B-Kpr, Grndad, RETIRED from 9 to 5. 6660 Imperial Dr., Morrow, GA 30260 jayseapcok@JUNO early a.m. - late p.m. Mesg. Mchine 770-968-4357, Somebody will hear it! I am a winner; can't win every time, but I will win enough. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:34:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: SV: I feel Trapped! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Albert W Needham > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: SV: I feel Trapped! > Date: Saturday, September 27, 1997 9:54 AM > > Both feet are planted firmly Ian, and I have a solid grip! > > He who sits on an icy intellectual mountaintop and hurls thunderbolts > down now and again surely cannot expect to be "immune from a > boomerang" ! > > I could not stand by 'quietly' after witnessing the humiliating public > slaughter. > > Jorn did not deserve to be cowered into his last apologetic response! > > Somebody, has to speak out in his defense. > Due to the recent spat of off-topic posts, posts meant for the listserve ( signoff, etc), quoting whole posts and then adding a "me too" type comment at the end, whining, bitching (OOPS), and all-round nonsense (myself included), I had a "Eureka!!!" kind of idea!! And that is to start a "Best of" type thing like Alan's!!! And since his is called "Best", mine should be called "Worst-Of-Bee"! It's either that, or go the whole way and start a Bitch-L. Yeah!..that's what I'll do!!! Just send an email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU with the message: SUBSCRIBE BITCH-L email@something.whatever.com and send any complaints about anything in particular, or specifically, things you don't like about Bee-L, (including this post) to: BITCH-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Now remember, this new list is strictly about complaining and taking offense. No constructive comments will be tolerated!!! No supportive posts either, unless they are to gang up on another list member! And if I detect any "thread" developing, or anything that might appear to reflect some use of gray matter, that member will be kicked off post haste! Now that I'm done, I can remove my tongue, which I had duct-taped into my cheek...;) hehehe...>:) Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 11 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:53:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Guy Miller Subject: Re: SV: I feel Trapped! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:34 PM 9/28/97 -0400, you wrote: >Just send an email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU with the message: >SUBSCRIBE BITCH-L email@something.whatever.com >and send any complaints about anything in particular, or specifically, >things you don't like about Bee-L, (including this post) to: > >BITCH-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > >Now remember, this new list is strictly about complaining and taking >offense. No constructive comments will be tolerated!!! I'm so glad that you held off starting BITCH till now, because otherwise my e-mail folder would have been empty all of this past last week. Guy F. Miller "Start every day with a smile, and get it over with." Charlottesville. VA W.C. Fields ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:21:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "W. G. Miller" Subject: Re: Goldenrod is it a good source of honey? In our area (around Washington DC), the goldenrod/aster flow in the Fall is normally left for the bees as winter feed. The flow itself runs roughly from mid-September to mid-October, and is quite variable in intensity (1997 looks like a good year for it here). Even though I don't harvest goldenrod/aster, I have tasted the honey and consider it to be acceptable. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:47:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: SV: I feel Trapped! On Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:34:44 -0400 Ian Watson writes: > >BITCH-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Thanks Ian for the sense of humor! You cracked up both of my hives..the din of laffs is deafening! :-) Al, ----------------------------------------------------------- awneedham@juno.com - Scituate,MA,USA Cerberus - Three Sites In One Honey Bees-LottoLand-Doktor Finkle http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:44:20 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Moth's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ken. Yes. In the United States there is a product sold across the counter in drugstores and convenience stores called "Moth crystals" and the chemical name is Paradichlorebenzene. After I extract the honey, I return the frames to the bees to get them cleaned up and "refurbished" for next year. Then I take a sheet(s) of plastic and place it on a hive cover turned upside down. Next I place an empty medium super on the sheet of plastic and pout one container of moth crystals. Then I place boxes containing the material that I want to preserve, turn up the plastic sheet and seal the boxes tightly with sheets of plastic tying the plastic around them with rope. Works pretty well! WARNING: Must use paradichlorobenze BUT NOT moth balls! Good luck. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:33:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Part 2 of Pair gets buzz from killer job with bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>In the two years since the Africanized honeybee first hitched a ride in= to California aboard a pipe truck in 1995, the sprawling 4,000 square miles of Imperial County on the Mexican border have become completely colonized. = Within a year, the bee has made inroads into Riverside and San Diego counties and is poised to leap into Los Angeles and Orange counties.<< I live outside of a little town south of Dallas, TX called Red Oak. It i= s about 20-25 miles south of Dallas. I was told by more than one person th= at AHB were discovered on the Red Oak water tower and that I shouldn't keep bees anymore. Also, I am told that this scare happened in the span of 24= hours, i.e. the bees were discovered and confirmed AHB in 24 hours. Is that possible? I thought that some involved testing had to be done and that they would have to be sent somewhere(Beltsville?) for confirmation. If this in fact was an AHB hive then this is the farthest north AHB bees have been found in Texas. I'm more afraid of the rules and regulations that come with AHB then I am of the bees themselves. I have been told th= at there is a quarantine on my county. I'm not allowed to move bees out of the county, AHB or not. This is all hearsay and I don't even know where to confirm it. Anyone el= se hear about this? Neighbors are not as understanding about my beekeeping = as they once were. Ted Wout Red Oak, TX, USA = ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:33:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Re: 3 meds vs 2 deeps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Susan in St. Louis wrote: >>Does anyone have an opinion or experience using 3 mediums instead of 2 deeps for the brood chamber? Also any reference sources would be appreciated. = I try to do my homework :)<< I have figured out that it will cost more. Look through the catalog of your favorite bee supplier and do the math. I believe that you'll find it's more expensive wood and foundation wise. = Also, your bees will not have as much comb space inside the hive. There will be twice as much bee space between the three mediums as there is between just two deeps. More of the resulting space will be woodenware frames. Of course this may be overcome by using plastic frames instead o= f wood. While the individual bodies will be lighter there will be more work. Fif= ty percent more frames to manipulate. If your bees are prone to build burr comb, you'll have more burr comb to deal with as well. I can't see a whole lot of advantages for going to mediums for hive bodie= s but I clearly see several disadvantages - most important for me is higher= cost. = If anyone has more reasons why you should go to 3 medium hive bodies I'd like to hear them. Ted Wout Red Oak, TX, USA