From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Sep 17 12:52:12 1999 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27289 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11083 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909171652.MAA11083@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:06 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9904D" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 197620 Lines: 4290 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:41:30 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Examinations of colonies under red light MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone knowledge, or experience, of examining colonies of honey bees under 'red light' conditions. I understand that this can be done with very little disturbance to the colony. (No wife, not intending to play with them 24 hours a day, just simply for interest). Ken Hoare ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:30:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Becky or Al S Boehm Subject: requeen? odd comb Hello all, I have a question and a problem- I think. First I took a swarm from above a very good hive of two years of age. This was three weeks ago, which was a week after I made an increase from this same hive, very prolific. Because this hive has been quite nasty from the beginning I decided to requeen the swarm colony while it was small( five frames). I ordered a spare queen and went to find the queen in the swarm colony and found that the bees had built their comb in nice rows sideways between the frames of foundation, five to seven rows bridged between each pair of frames. I have had this happen with only a row of comb and when left alone the bees straightened all out and all was well. Needless to say I cannot find the queen under these conditions. I scraped out a few bridges of comb that did not have larva in hopes they will straighten it out. 1 short of blowing them all out on the ground is it possible to requeen these nasty friends? 2 does someone have experience with this kind of comb construction? will it take care of itself? Should I maybe blow the bees out and scrape most of the comb , requeen with queen excluders over and under the brood chamber and see if they figure it out? 3 Or should I leave it all alone, And put up with this one being nasty, they are tolerable. Thanks in advance, Al Boehm Columbus N.C. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:37:00 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Emergency Queens. Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU In-Reply-To: <199904212240.SAA25085@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > Two different scenarios, producing, in one case acceptable queens but the > > other only producing a temporay solution. Baloney. Emergency queens raised by a good beekeeper from good stock are perfectly good queens and *can* last as long, and do as well, as as any other queen. I defy anyone to prove otherwise with scientific literature. That is not to say all -- or even most -- emergency queens are excellent, but then how good are the cells and queens that we buy from the breeders? I can assure you that you can and do often get less than ideal queens from breeders. As an illustration, I requested ripe cells from a breeder recommended to me by a friend, and when they arrived, the breeder indictated that there was a small percentage included that he felt might not be good enough to use, but he had sent them along as a bonus. When I looked at them, I rejected a full 1/3 of *all* the cells -- including many of the the supposedly OK ones -- due to size and an obvious lack of excess feed in the cup (they were grafted into JayZee BeeZee cups and I could easily see without having to open them). The rest of them, I thought -- by our minimum standards -- were marginal. If I had bought mated queens raised from these cells , I would have never realized that they were a bit underfed until the hives did not perform well. Back to emergency cells: The bad press for emergency queens -- as far as I can tell by reading the literature and from personal experience and as I related here recently -- is mostly from writers repeating misconceptions based on incomplete understanding of previous writings. It is not inconceivable to me that the same people who have trouble understanding the writings may have trouble raising emergency queens. The timing, the management, and the understanding of bees required to do a good job may be beyond their ability. In the hands of an expert, or even attentive amateur, this is as good a method as any. Under some circumstances, it may be the best choice. > ...I see no reason for leaving to the bees to make a new queen in a > split when it will take the beekeeper only a couple of minutes to > produce a cell from a selected breeder queen. Well, everyone has different priorities and different scheduling and I'm not going to tell people what to do with their time. I'll admit that raising cells, as you recommend, is preferable in that there is an element of control there that is lacking in the simple split-and-leave-them-to- themselves approach. However, not everyone has those 'couple of minutes' or the expertise that some take for granted. Most people who can understand simple instructions can divide a double hive onto two stands in the spring when the hive is busting with bees and feed, the weather is good, and everything in the county is blooming in profusion. That is all there is to splitting using emergency queens. Done. No selecting, no grafting, no searching through hives, no thinking. Nada. A few moments and the deed is done.In 21 days if no eggs are in evidence in one half, the hive can be re-combined, or given a queen. Selecting queens for breeding by grafting and raising cells, on the other hand, is a subtle task, sometimes requiring a year or more. If the wrong mother(s) is chosen, the results can be *far, far* worse than those obtained by using the genes of every surviving hive in the yard, as one does by letting each hive raise a queen. And the cell raising is not something everyone is up to, either. FWIW, I know a fellow who raised 1,000+ queens for his outfit and for neighbours from ONE QUEEN MOTHER! I shudder to think of it. Think if she lacked good wintering genes in her offspring, for example... IMO, this is a far worse thing to do than to let the hives raise their own queens. > To produce your own cells is little work and well spent time. Granted, but who can speak for everyone? To each his/her own. > I have done this for some time and I'm very pleased with the result. > There are also ways to put cells into queen right hives for requeening > this way with little work involved. I agree, and was impressed by how quickly we were able to improve our stock and production, as well as wintering success the last time we raised our own queens from our own selected stock. Nonetheless, my wife will be managing the raising of 2,000+ queens this spring, she has decided, and she is already cranky looking forward to having to work almost every day straight through, or be thinking about her cells, for the next six weeks or more. It is more than a 'little work'. Anyhow, there are three ways that bees raise queens in nature, and they all work and have worked for eons. *All* can fail under some conditions, even in nature. What method of the three we choose is up to us -- and our circumstances. If we understand it and understand the demands and limitations of the mechanism we choose, we will succeeed most of the time. What more can we ask? allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:52:08 -0700 Reply-To: pyramid@epix.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pyramid Subject: Re: Hop Clover (Trifolium agrarium) Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have hop clover through many of my fields. Although widespread, it is a minor bloom among the white, ladino and red(not worked by the bees). It does not bloom alone among the clovers. The bees work it but not avidly as they do a few patches of sweet clover which I have. I could never identify any honey coming from it. This is NE Pennsylvania. Burns ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:27:42 -0400 Reply-To: BobCan@tdpi.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Subject: Unorganized Freenzy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received a package of bees the otherday and I don't think my queen is doing well. Four days after installing the bees seem very mad and confused "UNORGANIZED" they are hanging out on the hive and not going anywhere. I pulled queen cage out the otherday and she was not in it so I assumed she was released. The bees have defecated a lot as there is brownish gold color droppings everywhere on the hive. But, like I said the bees don't appear to be moving away from the hive as my other bees are out taking in all the dandelions. I have them on plenty of syrup let me note that I am using pierco frames that are new and were sprayed with syrup prior to the installation. I installed them on a cool day 45+ degrees so I put the whole package in pulling five frames out to accommodate the install. After removing the queencage and package I closed off everything and visited them again yesterday in nice weather and I expected them to be foraging however they were just hanging on the hive. I was thinking this was a long time for flight orientation for them. Another funny thing is that they seem to be using the upper entrance "notch in the inner cover" more than any other hive I have. I looked at them last night for the first time and went I opened the hive the bees were everywhere! They had not started building any comb! I mean they where everywhere no organization just a mess! I was going to look for the queen but with all of them in my face and everywhere I just shut the top. One hour later I took a frame of broad from another hive to see if that will calm them down. I will check today to see if they cluster around the broad and maybe look for the queen. Does this appear that I have lost my queen? Help! Any ideas? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:34:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Billett Subject: Re: requeen? odd comb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Al, I might be making an asumption here, but how many frames of foundation do you have in the new hive? 9 or 10? When drawing out comb, it is best to use 10 frames to ensure the proper bee space and initiate proper comb construction. When the space between the sheets of foundation is too great, the bees sense that the cells would be too deep if drawn out 'the way we want it', so they build the comb cross ways to get it 'the way they want it'. I saw this in my friends hive last year. He had frame spacers in his honey supers, and inserted 9 frames of foundation. It was a mess. instead of using frame spacers attached to the hive body, I use the metal rabbets (Easier to scrape off propolis and keep clean) and my brood chambers are 10 frames. Honey supers are 10 frames when being drawn out, and 9 frames when drawn comb, spaced with a homemade hand held spacer tool (Similar to the one brushy mountain sells). As for what to do to correct the situation? I will let the older more experienced BEE-L'ers provide that answer. Rod Billett Lexington, SC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:17:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: eabell Subject: Re: Examinations of colonies under red light Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hope you will permit a short commercial that may be of interest to members. Commercial Beekeeping Operation for Sale in Western Canada. For details reply to eabell@compusmart.ab.ca Eric & Marnie Abell Box 87 Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 Canada Phone/fax (780) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:43:07 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: What bee is this? Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keeler, Lisa wrote: > I was out watching my bees taking pollen from the pussy willows and I > noticed that they were not the only bee doing this. The other bees were > distictly different from my yellow Italian honey bees. The other bees were > about 1/3 the volume of my bees, but generally the same shape and features > as my bees except that the entire body was black and the tail was shiny and > possibly more pointed. The thorax was lightly covered in white or light > yellow hairs much less dense than my furry bees. Mason bees are a possibility. However, there are many genera and species of bees that live among us. You might be interested in getting an insect guide book (perhaps one on hymenoptera specifically) from your local library, and looking up the one you've seen. Pollination of our local flowers occurred long before honey bees were brought to the new world, and it is fascinating to see and identify the many wild species on them. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:37:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gauthier Buddy J Subject: Re: requeen? odd comb Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Same thing happened on my new hive this year. When placing my new queen cage in the hive, I left out one frame for a total of nine. Within a week, I had bridge comb and comb resembling a mushroom being built off the side of the one with the largest gap. The queen would hide under there until I removed those bridges and the mushroom. When I placed the tenth frame in, they proceeded to build normal comb, which made it easy to monitor their progress. Buddy Gauthier Computer Systems Analyst / Bee Hobbyist Cameco Industries, Inc. Thibodaux, LA 70301 Phone: (504)435-4783 Fax: (504)435-4704 Email: T802273@deere.com I saw this in my friends hive last year. He had frame spacers in his honey supers, and inserted 9 frames of foundation. Rod Billett Lexington, SC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:00:13 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: supering advice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marc Sevigny wrote: > My question: is it wise/OK/advisable to add a > honey super now? The honey flow here doesn't > begin for another 2-3 weeks, but the population > seemed high. Will adding another super relieve > the congestion? > > Is it OK to use a queen excluder to keep the queen > from moving up into the empty comb and begin laying > there? I have had this problem in previous years. Will > the congestion be alleviated by a honey super on top > of an excluder? What is standard protocol under these > conditions? My advice would be to add a super if you have taken out the Apistan strips. Your last question is interesting in that there seems to be no standard protocol. I for sure would add an excluder, as I do to each and every one of my colonies with supers. Others would not, but would allow the queen to go up now in hopes that she will go down again later as honey fills the super. Sometimes this happens as planned, sometimes not. What you do all depends upon how comfortable you are with brood (even temporarily) in your supers. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:12:06 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: requeen? odd comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When bees build lots of parallel brace combs between frames, it usually means that the frames have shifted apart for some reason. The bees are perfectly comfortable with this arrangement, but it's impossible to work such frames, such as you admit when you say you can't find the queen in this situation. The only solution is to take these frames out, messy as it may be, and scrape all the brace comb off, down to the depth where you see the proper cell orientation. You may have to sacrifice brood and honey, but it still needs to be done. I had a case of vandalism a couple years ago, where some hives were tipped over sideways. All the combs shifted to one side, and when I got there about half of the space in all boxes was converted to this cross brace comb. You would not have liked to be around me when I was resetting these hives! I was as cross as the bees. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:22:07 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Examinations of colonies under red light Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU In-Reply-To: <199904220440.AAA28537@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Has anyone knowledge, or experience, of examining colonies of honey bees > under 'red light' conditions. I understand that this can be done with very > little disturbance to the colony. There was a small article in the Speedy Bee sometime in the last six months mentioning that Africanized bees are being managed at night using red light in -- I believe -- Mexico. I paricularly noticed this because I had just mentioned the idea to Dean at Apiaries and Orchards in regards another Swinger I recently bought there. I had asked if anyone ever had red lights installed as well as the normal white ones they install so nicely on the forklifts. He said that, yes, in fact, that a customer who wanted his machine fully decked out had recently done so. I did not order red lights, but plan to get something to put over the lights in some situations. I know that one can buy gels for stage lights in almost any colour, and I would imagine that they would be very efficient. I had been remembering the red cellophane bags that candy came in at Christmas when I was a child and thinking that such a membrane would be ideal - and cheap. When moving strong hives at night, the white lights on a forklift attract quite a few bees under some situations and, if they happen to be near the operator, can result in serious stinging with no warning. We have lights on both the mast and the roll cage. If an operator turns on the lights on the roll cage, it is asking for trouble when lifting hives. They are useful for travel otherwise. There are times when even the more distant lights on the mast cause problems. For tying doen the load, we use the FL lights if there is no moon, and under these circumstances, being close to the hive entrances, red light might be the answer. I'm not sure how well we would work in red light, and, of course colour filters work by removing some of the brilliance of a light source. So, I am not certain that we would have enough illumination for safety if we add filters. There is a limit to how much electricity my gas Swingers will supply with their alternators. They are pretty light duty, electrically. The diesel unit has much more rugged electrical system, and might be able to carry more wattage to compensate for the filters. A well-lit workplace is a safer workplace. FWIW, the ordinary 'sealed beam' brake/backup light replacement units that are designed for installation into rubber grommets and which are used in highway semi units may very well be the exact size to fit nicely into the rubber pot mounts that are currently on my forklift. I have intended to try this idea, and now reminded, will do so today. I've often noticed that at night in a beeyard one can see fairly nicely when someone puts a foot on the brake pedal of a vehicle. For moving bees, this would bee enough light for most purposes, I think. I should also mention that painting bulbs with acrylic paint works quite nicely if you happen to be an artist and have some artists' colours, and Christmas tree lights are available in various reds. Nail poish can work. I've heard that the 'safe' lights that we use in photographic dark rooms are very suitable, and have used such a red bulb in an indoor wintering building. I wonder about the yellow 'bug lights' that are sold for use on porches outside and which are not supposed to attract moths etc. Examining brood is a different matter. I like as much light as possible. Full sunlight is barely enough sometimes. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:36:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: CCA treated timber (From Richard Yarnell) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Both Trevor and Nick point out that CCA treated lumber should be painted. Do either of them know whether specific guidelines as to quality and type of paint were developed? Because of the ease of use, water soluble latex based paints seem to be used frequently. Depending on their grade, some are by no means impermeable. The amount of material, vapor, water, and dissolved solids which are allowed to migrate from the hive body to the interior surface is relevant to both disease and preservatives. Comments regarding grade and type of paint used in the field would be appreciated. > Work done in the 1970's in the USA showed that timber (lumber) treated with > CCA (copper chrome arsenate) could give a residue in hive products. This was > for timber used in boxes and not painted. Even though the CCA formulation is > supposed to have the arsenic bonded in an insoluble form by the chromium, > trials have shown that there is still a certain amount of leaching of the > arsenic. This would be the case inside a beehive, particularly if there is > condensation. > The opinion of our wood chemists here in Australia at the time was that by > painting the exposed surfaces of the timber, you would stop any leaching of > the arsenic. It should not bleed through the paint if the timber is dry. ---------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, fly tying benches | leave our kids a decent place to live. -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:09:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: Emergency Queens. Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think one distinction must be made here that is perhaps leading to a misconception on some parts. One of the deciding factors here is drone availability. In an established large and/or commercial yard there will probably be enough drones and established drone collection areas. A hobbyist or sideliner may not have the ability to establish a yard to favor a successful mating area. Besides weather and birds then a smaller yard may not successfully produce good queens. Several years ago this may not have been a problem as unmanaged colonies existed in the trees so supply a shortfall of successful drones. ( I think unmanaged is a better term than wild. I know I haven't been able to train my bees to sit-up and beg.) Unmanaged drones already had established drone collection areas for the virgins to fly to. Larger, permanent or yards where the trees have been restocked, will favor a successful mating over the alternative. So both sides are right and we are simply debating the finer points. If you have a strong colony with the necessary eggs/larva, nutrition, good weather, and plenty of drones, there should be no reason why you can't get a good queen. If it doesn't work the first time, do it again or, find an alternative. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, VA Allen Dick wrote: > > > Two different scenarios, producing, in one case acceptable queens but the > > > other only producing a temporay solution. > > Baloney. > > Emergency queens raised by a good beekeeper from good stock are perfectly > good queens and *can* last as long, and do as well, as as any other queen. > I defy anyone to prove otherwise with scientific literature. > > That is not to say all -- or even most -- emergency queens are excellent, > but then how good are the cells and queens that we buy from the breeders? > I can assure you that you can and do often get less than ideal queens > from breeders. > > Anyhow, there are three ways that bees raise queens in nature, and they > all work and have worked for eons. *All* can fail under some conditions, > even in nature. > > What method of the three we choose is up to us -- and our circumstances. > If we understand it and understand the demands and limitations of the > mechanism we choose, we will succeeed most of the time. > > What more can we ask? > > allen > > http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:36:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Emergency Queens. Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To add to Allan's excellent post- I have been splitting every year and not bought queens or raised my own by grafting. I have found the easiest way to split is wait till the bees are in both boxes, smoke the upper box heavily to drive the queen down to the lower box. Remove the lower box to a new hive stand. So now you have the field bees supporting the new queens hive and the old queen will continue to lay and replenish the field bees lost in the split fairly quickly. Last year I tried splitting by leaving the queenless upper on the hive with a double screen between. It worked. It also allows combining the two for a two queen hive, combining if there is no queen produced and splitting as I use to, with the new queen in the old location. A little more work, but more flexibility. Bill T Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:06:08 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ana Lucia Merlo Subject: Re: Do mite resistant bees exist? Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 14:56 21/04/99 -0700, you wrote: >Matthew Westall of Castle Rock, CO wrote (in part): > >>While each summer I'm investing a great deal of time pulling out >>surviving feral hives, I'm becoming increasingly at-odds with the logic >>on why these bees are still alive. How much am I investing in 'chance'? > >******* Adrian Wenner wrote ( in part) ....If so, tests of any kind run on items such as hygienic behavior or colony genetic makeup might yield very little. Those of us somewhat remote from managed colonies might see a resurgence of resistant feral colony populations --- where queens mate with drones from similar such colonies................ Accordingly, Paul has established an apiary in a remote area at the base of the mountain range behind us, where he is moving all captured swarms that have survived without treatment. There the queens and drones from like colonies can interbreed. Unfortunately, this has become a race against time, since the latest Africanized honey bee find was only 50 miles away. ********** Hi, I have been in beekeeping for a few years in Brazil and so far, I have never had to treat my bees in anyway. The text below is part of what was discussed at the Sixth Ibero-Latin Congress and Twelfth Mexican Beekeeping Seminar Meets at Merida, Yucatán. Dr. David DeJong of the Genetics Department, University of Săo Paulo, described the "particular" situation found in South America. Countries like Brazil do not have a Varroa problem like their neighbors to the south, Uruguay and Argentina. But in these countries, the situation can also be mixed with the mite being more of a problem in temperate regions. Although mostly Africanized bees are found in Brazil, European bees on Fernando de Noronha Island are also tolerant and require no treatment. The resistence or tolerance is probably present in many bee populations, according to Dr. DeJong, but they must be allowed to express it. Unfortunately, humans are extremely quick in treating bees, and in their rush to do so can interfere with nature to the bees' detriment, he concluded.( The Speedy Bee by Dr. Tom Samford.) Ana Lucia Campos Merlo. __________________________________________________________________________ Ana Lucia Campos Merlo. Bee Biz - For the Commercial Beekeeper. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:08:28 EDT Reply-To: BeeCrofter@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: CCA treated timber (From Richard Yarnell) Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is not all that hard to make bottom boards that never rot from concrete-why even chance the CCA? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:11:27 -0700 Reply-To: linda.hagedorn@ibm.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Linda Hagedorn Subject: New beekeeper questions Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I built a hive and bought a swarm (3-4 lbs) from a local beekeeper. I had some questions, and hoped someone here might help. 1. Is the appropriate time to install a swarm in a hive approx. 1-1 1/2 hours before dark? 2. What am I supposed to do to make the bees stop crawling out and down the sides before I have the inner and outer lid on? I used the bee brush and put a little pressure to make them move up and into the hive (no squishing). They complained a little but went inside. 3. After the initial install (shake) of the box to drop the ball of bees into the hive, the insides of the box were still covered with thousands of bees. I waited until they made little clusters in the box, shook it again, waited, shook, waited, shook, etc. Is this the right way to get all the bees out of the box? It took a long time. 4. Does it matter if there were two little clusters of bees left on the outside over night (providing of course, the queen was inside the hive)? Will they go inside later? 5. There were six combs inside the cardboard box, the largest being 5 inches long. Is there a way to estimate how long the swarm was in the box based on the comb size? 6. When I shook the bees into the super (minus three frames) the comb fell from the box into the hive, which I retrieved with a kitchen utensil. Should I have taken the loose comb out of the hive? I thought I should not replace the three frames as long as the comb was in the bottom as I did not want to squish any bees by forcing the frames. 7. How am I supposed to know if there is comb in the box, and is there a trick to keep it from falling into the hive when installing the swarm? 8. Feeding on the inside cover, inside an empty super. The sugar bottle does not cover the entire hole in the inner cover. What's to stop the bees from crawling up into the empty super and making comb there? What's to stop the sugar water from wicking where the bottle touches the inner cover? If it does wick, will the bees clean it up or do I have to take action? 9. How long should I expect a hive of bees to take to empty a 1-quart jar of sugar water? 10. Will the bees glue together the seams between the supers and inner cover? If so, is it hard to break free with the hive tool? Any information is appreciated. If anyone has specific advice, it's very welcome. I don't have a local mentor yet. Thank you. Linda Hagedorn Novice beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:43:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keeler, Lisa" Subject: Re: What bee.... Comments: To: "BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This makes sense - we have a 70 tree abandoned apple orchard on our place and I've also seen 1-2 small holes in our cedar siding on the house that I thought were due to mason bees. We appear to have quite a reasonable population. Is there anything I should be more watchful of with the honey bees and the mason bees co-existing? I really don't want to push the natives out - will my honey bees 2-4 hives compete for the same resources? Should I try to space my hive out more? Lisa K Zionsville IN > ---------- > From: Dave Pehling[SMTP:pehling@coopext.cahe.wsu.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 2:16 PM > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: What bee.... > > Hi Lisa, > > Sounds like you may have Mason bees (_Osmia lignaria_). See > http://gardening.wsu.edu/library/inse006/inse006.htm for pictures and > info. > > Cheers, > Dave Pehling > Extension Analyst > > ============================================ > | W.S.U. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION-SNOHOMISH CO. | > | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | > | EVERETT, WA. 98208 U.S.A. | > | PHONE - (425)338-2400 | > | FAX - (425)338-3994 | > | EMAIL pehling@wsu.edu | > ============================================ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:53:18 EDT Reply-To: GImasterBK@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: requeen? odd comb Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Never, under any condition, attempt to draw foundation in any way except 10 frames at a time! If you use 9 or 8, what a mess of cross comb you will have! Also, never mix drawn comb and foundation in the same body, or you will have frames "welded" together with a "3rd" comb between a drawn frame and the untouched sheet of foundation. I will repeat: To get properly drawn foundation, use 10 (ten) frames of foundation with each frame tightly touching each other in order to maintain proper "bee space" George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:04:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Archives unavailable? NOT TRUE! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Contrary to rumors, BEE-L archives are alive and well and searches will function as designed and documented in the LISTSERV Users Guide available online at: http://www.LSOFT.com/manuals/1.8d/index.html Inculded in "the Great Change" (the migration of BEE-L to a Unix platform) was an upgrade to the LISTSERV software. The vendor (LSOFT) no longer supports the DATABASE function, which was the search engine employed by some search web pages interfaces to the BEE-L archives. Searches via DATABASE commands no longer work. However, searches as documented in current LISTSERV manuals work fine. As always, users are encouraged to read the fine manuals (RTFM)! /Aa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:23:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: requeen? odd comb Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU In-Reply-To: <199904221432.KAA04614@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > ...but it's impossible to work such frames, such as you admit when you > say you can't find the queen in this situation. The only solution is to > take these frames out, messy as it may be, and scrape all the brace comb > off, down to the depth where you see the proper cell orientation. You > may have to sacrifice brood and honey, but it still needs to be done. Maybe sometime, but this may not bee the right time to make a huge mess and sacrifice brood. If the hive is progressing okay, I'd leave it alone and forget the meddling. Later, when the hive is fully developed, and the brood has moved up into another are, it will be time to do the dirty deed. Temper is a funny thing. Make sure they are in the full sun, not bothered by ants or skunks, and reduce the entrances if they are too big. Feed them. If you do all the above, you may find they are not too nasty. Hope so. There are tons of good suggestions on requeening nasty hives in the logs. Do the searches work, Aaron? I've heard rumblings that some of the old familiar functions are not working right since the Great Change. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:25:37 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: requeen? odd comb In-Reply-To: <199904221656.MAA07752@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT From: Self To: GImasterBK@aol.com Subject: Re: requeen? odd comb Date sent: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:16:07 -0600 > Never, under any condition, attempt to draw foundation in any way except > 10 frames at a time! If you use 9 or 8, what a mess of cross comb you > will have! Also, never mix drawn comb and foundation in the same body, > or you will have frames "welded" together with a "3rd" comb between a > drawn frame and the untouched sheet of foundation. Gotta disagree a little here, George. We do both of the above all the time, with generally good results. However, one must really know what one is doing, so the above methods are definitely not recommended for bee-ginners. I suspect this was what you meant? allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:15:43 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Examinations of colonies under red light Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU In-Reply-To: <199904221432.KAA04639@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I did not order red lights, but plan to get something to put over the > lights in some situations We found a cheap lens cover for truck brake lights that fits nicely over the lights on the forklift and we intend to try them. I think I'll make a setup that ressembles the flip-ip sunglasses that fit on your regular glasses frames. > ... the ordinary 'sealed beam' brake/backup light replacement units > that are designed for installation into rubber grommets and which are used > in highway semi units may very well be the exact size to fit nicely into > the rubber pot mounts that are currently on my forklift. I have intended > to try this idea, and now reminded, will do so today. I did try, and they are a perfect fit. Therefore, we could replace the clear lights on the roll cage -- or add new units if we wish. The brake light units use a different plug from the ones currently in the pot for clear beams, and the only modification would be to splice in an additional pigtail to fit the brake light unit. I would leave the pigtail for the white light in place so that I could change from one sealed beam unit to the other in moments. It remains to bee seen whether they are as bright as the normal clear beams with a red lens cover added. Hope some find this as interesting as I do... allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:38:29 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: New beekeeper questions Comments: To: linda.hagedorn@ibm.net, BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Hello, > >I built a hive and bought a swarm (3-4 lbs) from a local beekeeper. I had >some questions, and hoped someone here might help. > >1. Is the appropriate time to install a swarm in a hive approx. 1-1 1/2 >hours before dark? Actual swarms (taken off trees, bushes, buildings, etc.) can and should be hived right away. However, I have personally found that a swarm that has been "boxed" as you indicate, or package bees that arrive in the mail seem to do best when you wait until about the time you indicate. They fly around less and the night "quickly" spent in the hive helps them on their way making it home. If your package of bees arrive early in the day (normal as the post office wants them picked up A.S.A.P.), give them a misting with sugar water and place them in a cool, dark area until you're ready. >2. What am I supposed to do to make the bees stop crawling out and down the >sides before I have the inner and outer lid on? I used the bee brush and >put a little pressure to make them move up and into the hive (no >squishing). They complained a little but went inside. Due to the fact that they had already set up their home in the box the other beekeeper gave you, this new home "wasn't theirs" yet. If they are outside the hive, and the queen is inside, they won't leave. Read my answer to question #5 for help with this. As long as you have the entrance open they will all make their way inside eventually. >3. After the initial install (shake) of the box to drop the ball of bees >into the hive, the insides of the box were still covered with thousands of >bees. I waited until they made little clusters in the box, shook it again, >waited, shook, waited, shook, etc. Is this the right way to get all the >bees out of the box? It took a long time. Sometimes you have to give a pretty strong "rap" on the sides of the box or package to get the bees out, but since you mentioned you had comb already built in the box you were shaking them out of it sounds as if you did the right thing. >4. Does it matter if there were two little clusters of bees left on the >outside over night (providing of course, the queen was inside the hive)? >Will they go inside later? It's O.K. to leave the old box outside the new hive (once you've removed the comb they've started building) as the bees will usually find their way into the new hive. Just make sure they have shelter over their heads to keep any rain off and they'll make it through the night O.K. (assuming no early-spring frosts). >5. There were six combs inside the cardboard box, the largest being 5 >inches long. Is there a way to estimate how long the swarm was in the box >based on the comb size? Wow, sounds like at least a week to 10 days (based on 3-4 pounds of bees) to me. I'm sure more experienced beekeepers would know more than me on this question. A depends of course on whether the bees were being fed sugar syrup while in the cardboard box, or if a spring honey flow was in progress. >6. When I shook the bees into the super (minus three frames) the comb fell >from the box into the hive, which I retrieved with a kitchen utensil. >Should I have taken the loose comb out of the hive? I thought I should not >replace the three frames as long as the comb was in the bottom as I did not >want to squish any bees by forcing the frames. The comb in the cardboard box probably had eggs and larva in them (this could be another indication as to how long the bees were in the box... eggs=3 days or less, larva=10 days or less, etc.). What I have done in the past is to cut the comb loose, brush the bees off it and wrap it loosely in a towel. Once you have the bees in the hive, take the comb indoors and grab an empty frame of foundation (you might use those three you didn't place in the hive yet). At the top of the frame cut out foundation to make holes the size and shape of the comb you have collected (trimming the comb if needed to get them all to fit). Fit them into the foundation cut-outs and using cotton twine tie the comb in place by wrapping the twine around the frame and tying it off. You may need to use a couple wraps vertically and horizontally to hold them in place. In a few days the bees will have secured the comb into the foundation and disposed of the twine outside the hive. I've heard of other beekeepers using rubber bands for this but I've always wondered how many bee-lives were lost when the rubber band snaps after being cut through by the bees! >7. How am I supposed to know if there is comb in the box, and is there a >trick to keep it from falling into the hive when installing the swarm? As mentioned in #1, swarms are usually hived into their new home the moment of collecting, or at least within a day or two. This keeps the bees from building their home in a make-shift shelter like they did on you. I'm rather surprised that a "veteran" beekeeper would start a new beekeeper out with a swarm that has been cardboard-boxed for so long (and then not help you hive it). >8. Feeding on the inside cover, inside an empty super. The sugar bottle >does not cover the entire hole in the inner cover. What's to stop the bees >from crawling up into the empty super and making comb there? Use duct tape to close off the hole, though will frames of foundation to make and fill with brood and honey I would say you won't have to worry about it right now. Also, if you're using a jar that small I would suggest getting a gallon jar the size institutional foods come in (ketchup, etc.). You might want to visit a restaurant to see if they have any of these empty they're about to throw out. Feeder pails with screened holes in the cover can also be bought from bee supply outlets (Brushy Mountain for example). These work much better than small jars... besides covering the hole completely they hold more so you don't have to refill so often. >What's to stop the sugar water from wicking where the bottle touches the >inner cover? If it does wick, will the bees clean it up or do I have to take action? The bees will usually clean it up since you have a good amount of them. If it becomes a problem you can always use a little more of that fantastic substance, duct tape, to close the holes that would rest on the inner cover. >9. How long should I expect a hive of bees to take to empty a 1-quart jar >of sugar water? One quart, feeding 3-4 pounds of bees drawing out new foundation? I would check at least every other day... maybe even every day! Don't go into the brood box... leave them alone for a little while to do their work. Have two jars or feeder pails on hand so you can bring the full one with you to the hive and replace the empty one right there. Otherwise, you'll find your empty super placed over the inner cover full of bees looking for the syrup. >10. Will the bees glue together the seams between the supers and inner >cover? If so, is it hard to break free with the hive tool? YES, between the supers and the inner cover, NO between the super being used to cover the feeder pail/jar and the outer cover (there won't be any bees in that box once you have the hole in the inner cover blocked with the feeder). Hive tools are ment for this very task. Hives left alone for very long periods of time can be a bear to crack, but with a new hive the bees won't have had a chance to do too much. A lot depends on the strain of bee, too, as some use propolis more than others. >Any information is appreciated. If anyone has specific advice, it's very >welcome. I don't have a local mentor yet. Thank you. > >Linda Hagedorn >Novice beekeeper Good luck Linda, and welcome to the world of beekeeping! There are many others here that are MUCH more knowledgable than I, but I hope that I've been able to answer your questions. --David Scribner ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:08:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dan Brown Subject: Re: requeen? odd comb >Gotta disagree a little here, George. We do both of the above all the time, with generally good results. >However, one must really know what one is doing, so the above methods are definitely not recommended for bee-ginners. Allen, for us bee-ginners, can you shed any light on what it is that you do to preclude the kinds of problems George mentions? I'm going to be installing two packages this evening and had planned to use a mixture of drawn comb and foundation, figuring that the queen could get to laying right away in the drawn comb while the bees were working on drawing out the foundation. Many thanks, Dan Brown Woodinville, WA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:56:20 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Examinations of coloniesunder red light In-Reply-To: <199904221322.JAA03384@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Allen Dick wrote > When moving strong hives at night, the white lights on a forklift attract > quite a few bees under some situations and, if they happen to be near the > operator, can result in serious stinging with no warning. We have lights > on both the mast and the roll cage. If an operator turns on the lights on > the roll cage, it is asking for trouble when lifting hives. They are > useful for travel otherwise. Here in Australia we can buy light bulbs for our normal household that are yellow and are sold under names such as bug light. They do not attract insects. We use them and find they work and will not attract bees from hives near the house nor moths. The normal white bulbs do attract bees and moths. If they work for household lights, maybe there is an equivalent for lights on vehicles or even put a yellow covering over the lights. FWIW Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:34:48 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: CCA treated timber In-Reply-To: <199904221434.KAA04706@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aaron wrote > Both Trevor and Nick point out that CCA treated lumber should be painted. > Do either of them know whether specific guidelines as to quality and type of > paint were developed? > > Comments regarding grade and type of paint used in the field would be > appreciated. Have checked with our wood chemists and it seems that it does not matter what type of paint is used. The main criterion is that the timber must be drier back to equilibrium mositure content (EMC) which is what the moisture is in the surrounding air. This is normally in the range of 12 to 15% but can be lower in areas of very low humidity e.g desert areas. If the timber is dry to EMC then any paint type should not allow the CCA to come through. This is provided the paint surface stays intact and the bees do not chew it off and expose the treated surface or wear it off in areas such as entrances where the traffic of bees can remove paint and timber. I was also told that there is a chance that CCA may not be around for too much longer. Nick quoted some research in New Zealand on CCA. The full reference is:- Danger of Using Arsenic Treated Timber for Beehives by D.L. Harrison, T. Palmer-Jones and R.G. Nairn New Zealand Journal of Agriculture Vol. 98 (4) pages 338-9, 1959. This work was done by only painting the outside of the boxes and leaving the insides as is. The timber was dried and in one trial was even treated rough, dried and dressed. It would seem there was no painting of the inside to see what effect this would have. Looking back on my own notes, I saw where in lectures to beekeepers we were recommending that they do not use CCA for any hives parts that may be accessed by bees. This would leave only the botom cleats on hives and other things such as hive stands. This is in line with what Nick posted. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:16:33 -0700 Reply-To: pyramid@epix.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pyramid Subject: Re: requeen? odd comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't see George Imirie's comment on mixing drawn and undrawn comb at all. That is exactly how I introduce undrawn foundation and don't recall ever having a bridge comb problem. Although I don't have a great wealth of beekeeping experience, I have enough to avoid using words like "never" and "always" when dealing with bees. Burns (10 years in the beeyard) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 06:50:34 +0000 Reply-To: aweinert@tpgi.com.au Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: aweinert Subject: Bee Stings , what is the poison Comments: To: bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have been asked as a general interest question "what are the poisons in a bee sting" Can anyone shed light on this please Thanks Andrew Weinert 25 Logan Street Atherton, 4883 Queensland Australia phone 07 4091 4667 aweinert@tpgi.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:10:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Becky or Al S Boehm Subject: my mess-requeen&odd comb Hello all, Thanks for the many different opinions and advice. I think I will leave this one to they that know best (the bees). I found during inspection of some of the rest of the fourteen colonies today a drone layer and have taken care of my extra queen problem. Thanks again. Al Boehm Columbus N.C. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:10:43 EDT Reply-To: GImasterBK@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: requeen? odd comb Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al: If I read your note correctly, you are talking about the swarm that you recovered 3 weeks ago and you assume the old parent queen is there? Apparently you put only 5 frames of foundation in a hive body and spaced them perhaps an inch apart. Am I correct in that? You can NOT under any conditions get foundation properly drawn 1) unless there is a nectar flow on or you are feeding 1:1 sugar syrup continuously, and 2) BEE SPACE has to be observed. You cannot get 5 frames of foundation drawn in a hive body. YOU HAVE TO DRAW 10 FRAMES at a time. After foundation is drawn into drawn comb, you can then use the drawn comb frames either 8 or 9 in a body; but you MUST draw 10 at a time. your best treatment right now, would be (nasty or not) put 10 frames of foundation in a body and scrape the present 5 frames clean and start over with those, and transfer the bees on to the new 10 frames while you are cleaning up the 5. Maybe you will see the old queen and kill her. You also said that you had just started a split from this nasty colony. Did you buy a new queen for it, transfer a swarm cell, or just going to let them raise a queen? George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:14:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Bonney Subject: Re: requeen? odd comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Allen, for us bee-ginners, can you shed any light on what it is that you do > to preclude the kinds of problems George mentions? I'm going to be > installing two packages this evening and had planned to use a mixture of > drawn comb and foundation, figuring that the queen could get to laying right > away in the drawn comb while the bees were working on drawing out the > foundation. Obviously, I'm not Allen, but I thought I would put in my two cents worth. When using foundation and drawn comb together, you have two choices - interleave the foundation with the drawn comb or place each separately. I cannot give citations but I remember reading of studies in Europe a few years back dealing with this question. They found that best results came from putting all the foundation together and separately putting all the drawn comb together. In the past I have had success installing bees on drawn comb, with foundation directly above in the second hive body. Dick Bonney rebonney@javanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:05:54 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: Re: Emergency Queens. Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Could you give a little more information on how to do this? There are also ways to >put cells into queen right hives for requeening this way with little work >involved. Ivan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:48:54 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Leen & Maria van den Berg Subject: Re: requeen? odd comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Obviously I am not Allan either, but we have experience both in Europe and a little bit in Northern Canada now. The difference is the HONEYFLOW. In the great flow in Northern Alberta it is no problem at all to draw out a few frames at a time, we did it for two years now. Just use 9 frames and put on the next to the outside ones new plastic Pierco frames,it works great. In Holland we never put 5 supers up either, so the difference is the area where you are keeping bees. Maria van den Berg ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:28:32 EDT Reply-To: WGMiller@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: WGMiller@AOL.COM Subject: Odd comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While some people claim to have had success by mixing drawn and undrawn comb (and I have no reason to doubt them), my experience has been that putting drawn and undrawn comb in the same super is a recipe for a mess. What I have generally observed to happen is that the bees build on the cells in the drawn comb to produce a frame that is too thick to remove without removing the adjacent frames. The result is a "Chinese Puzzle" super that can only be assembled and disassembled in a specific order (if it can be done at all). W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:19:19 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Pehling Subject: Re: What bee.... Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology In-Reply-To: <199904221638.MAA07026@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Keeler, Lisa wrote: Is there anything I should be more watchful of with the honey > bees and the mason bees co-existing? I really don't want to push the > natives out - will my honey bees 2-4 hives compete for the same resources? =============== Hi Lisa & all, I have not had any problem raising OMB's along with honeybees- except the Varroa finally got my _Apis_ and I have to install some packages soon. _Osmia_, fortunately, is not a host of Varroa or tracheals. They have their own, unique problems but nothing as devastating as traditional beekeepers must deal with. Bee of Good Cheer, dave.... ============================================ | W.S.U. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION-SNOHOMISH CO. | | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | | EVERETT, WA. 98208 U.S.A. | | PHONE - (425)338-2400 | | FAX - (425)338-3994 | | EMAIL pehling@wsu.edu | ============================================ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:17:46 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Emergency Queens. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thom Bradley wrote: > > I think one distinction must be made here that is perhaps leading to a > misconception on some parts. One of the deciding factors here is drone > availability. In an established large and/or commercial yard there will probably > be enough drones and established drone collection areas. A hobbyist or sideliner > may not have the ability to establish a yard to favor a successful mating area. > Besides weather and birds then a smaller yard may not successfully produce good > queens. I don't think this is a problem. There are NO wild colonies in Alaska, and even though I have only four colonies, I have on several occasions raised fine queens from emergency cells. Just the various hives, managed to whatever degree, provide sufficient drones. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:42:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Subject: Re: Bee Stings , what is the poison Comments: To: aweinert@tpgi.com.au MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: >From Mark Winston's "Biology of the Honey Bee", pgs. 29-30, "The venom injected when a worker stings is a mixture of proteins and peptides, the major component being a protein called melittin. Venom contains other compounds such as hyaluronidase, phospholipase A, acid phosphatase, and histamine. ...The complex nature of the venom may be due to the wide variety of insect and vertebrate pests and predators which might attack a bee colony..." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:10:23 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Sanford Subject: Working bees under red light Comments: To: bees@KENLIA.ENTA.NET MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT I was in Mexico last year and published a report: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/papers/MERIDA3.HTM There was a paper given on the red light subject: Originally published in The Speedy Bee, Vol. 27, Nos. 10-12, pp. 10-12 (October through December), Vol.28, No. 1, pp. 12-14 (January). Sixth Ibero-Latin American Congress and Twelfth Mexican Beekeeping Seminar Meets in Mérida, Yucatán, México by Dr. Tom Sanford Extension Apiculturist Africanized Honey Bees in México: Africanized bees are now found all over México. They are considered a problem almost everywhere and many programs are in place to deal with these insects, as noted by Dr. Guzmán in his paper mentioned elsewhere in this report. One beekeeper in the state of Tamaulipas revealed a strategy he has used with success. Because of the extreme heat and high degree of Africanization, Veterinarian Héctor Lomeli reported on night time beekeeping in the region. After much experimentation, he found that manipulating colonies using lights covered with red celophane is extremely effective. This technique should be considered by others in this region, according to Mr. Lomeli, (so far, only four beekeepers in the area have adopted it). In general, colonies were not as defensive, the bees did not fly (except on nights with full moon) and the cooler temperatures kept combs from melting under a heavy honey load. Manipulations can be carried on as almost normal, once employees got used to the conditions, except they do not work well in finding queens. The following day colonies were reported as being fully recovered from previous night’s manipulations. Tom Sanford Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:41:30 +0100 From: Ken Hoare Subject: Examinations of colonies under red light Has anyone knowledge, or experience, of examining colonies of honey bees under 'red light' conditions. I understand that this can be done with very little disturbance to the colony. (No wife, not intending to play with them 24 hours a day, just simply for interest). Ken Hoare ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:53:14 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: requeen? odd comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pyramid wrote: > I don't see George Imirie's comment on mixing drawn and undrawn comb at > all. That is exactly how I introduce undrawn foundation and don't > recall ever having a bridge comb problem. I think that what George is talking about is mixing in every other comb of foundation among drawn combs. Unless there is a very good flow going on, this is truly a recipe for disaster. But if the foundation is grouped on one side, the drawn comb on the other, then usually it will be OK. The bees will first use the drawn comb, and as the cluster expands they will move over to draw the foundation, frame by frame. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:41:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: Emergency Queens. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ah yes, you would have a unique situation. Interesting point that brings up, you can obviously also control the purity of the line to a very high degree, moreso than even breeding on an island. Breeding outside of the natural range of the species would of course throw all towels out the window. In your case I would breed as much on my own as possible without "inbreeding" too much. Trying to work towards a more cold tolerant honeybee would pique my interest. Thom Bradley Thinking working honeybees in Alaska would be cool. sorry : {) I bet Mr. Elliott doesn't worry about AHB much at night. Tom Elliott wrote: > Thom Bradley wrote: > > > A hobbyist or sideliner > > may not have the ability to establish a yard to favor a successful mating area. > > Besides weather and birds then a smaller yard may not successfully produce good > > queens. > > I don't think this is a problem. There are NO wild colonies in Alaska, > and even though I have only four colonies, I have on several occasions > raised fine queens from emergency cells. > Tom > > -- > "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) > > Tom Elliott > Chugiak, Alaska > U.S.A. > beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:25:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) Plindena from arc0a221.bf.sover.net [209.198.85.221] 209.198.85.221 Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:38:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: 7/8" THICK SUPERS VIOLATE BEE SPACE! Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="x-user-defined" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 7/8" THICK SUPERS VIOLATE BEE SPACE! A major equipment supplier in the Northeast USA sells 7/8" thick supers, touting them as "sturdy", "stronger", and "ensuring a safe, secure home" and that "thicker construction makes for a much warmer winter home." Years ago I worked with some of these supers and had trouble with getting the lids to fit over the 1/4" longer and wider supers. Now, the seller claims they are "interchangeable with all other American standard equipment." Last year I noticed that I was getting more propolized end bars on my frames, even the factory square plastic Pierco frames. I measured the inside dimensions and found that they are now making the boxes fit the covers by taking 1/4" off the inside box dimensions, violating the bee space principle, hence the propolized end bars. The 1/8" thicker wall hardly makes a difference to the bees, as wood is not a great insulator. However, the beekeeper may kill a queen or roll some bees when removing frames, leading to more stings. Here are the dimensions specified in The Hive and the Honeybee, 1992 edition, page 539: "Interior dimensions: 9 19/32" (24.4 cm) deep x 14 11/16" (37.3 cm) wide x 18 5/16" (46.5 cm) long." "The Original Langstroth dimensions have survived the test of time." Let’s stick with Langstroth! Check your boxes, and demand the standard! Sincerely, Charles F. Andros Linden Apiaries Walpole, NH 03608-0165 USA/EUA 603-756-9056 email: lindena@sover.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:10:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: New Scottish Beekeeping site Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I would just like to draw your attention to a new Scottish beekeeping site at:- http://luichartwoollens.freeserve.co.uk It is mainly aimed at Scottish Beekeepers but all are welcome to participate. I would especially like some help with the article on Ancient Bees. Thanks Harry ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:29:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Partin Subject: Re: Emergency Queens. Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology In-Reply-To: P-O Gustafsson 's message of Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:28:58 +0200 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) MR. Gustaffson you say there are ways of putting cells in queen rite hives in order to requeen, would you please tell us more on this subject. I would also like to know if anyone knows if I can get my hives to make a good emergency queen when there is no flow going on but there is a lot of pollen and a lot of honey stores, or would you have to feed in a time like this. BUD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:15:53 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Emergency Queens. In-Reply-To: <199904231837.OAA03154@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I would also like to know if anyone knows if I can get my hives to > make a good emergency queen when there is no flow going on but there is > a lot of pollen and a lot of honey stores, or would you have to feed in > a time like this. Income and savings are two different things. With only savings, people tend to be conservative in their living style. With ample income, they tend to be more generous and expansive. The same holds for bees. They can live very nicely on their savings, but if you want them to raise maximum young a little income is stimulative. Therefore, we ALWAYS feed, even during a flow when we are raising queens by any method. Moreover, the problem with stores is that they may be granulated or sub-standard in some way. Feed in the hive is not the same as feed in the bee. You want liquid open feed close to the brood, and lots of pollen. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:47:08 -0400 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Forced Superscedure In-Reply-To: <199904230643.CAA21661@listserv.albany.edu> On 22 Apr 99, at 22:05, Ivan McGill wrote: >Could you give a little more information on how to do this? > > There are also ways to put cells into queen right hives for requeening > >this way with little work involved. This method is all dependant on a number of pre-determined points. An older queen, available ripe queen cells, marked queens, and a flow on. A ripe cell is placed in the top of a central brood frame, in a cell protector. In due course the virgin emerges from the cell protector and of course is quite safe from the bees as they never kill a newly emerged virgin. The virgin goes to mate, ultimately taking over the hive from the old queen. A number of points to watch for. Marking queens verifies a take over, a flow on gives the bees plenty to do and are easier to deal with. A cell high in the brood will be safe from chilling in the event of a cold snap. A cell protector is vital, otherwise the bees attitude is quite plain, 'they didn't put it there, so it's in the way and they'll remove it'. It will not work with a young queen, only a queen about to be supersceded. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Therapik, soothing aid for stings. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:28:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" Subject: Banking Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have saved extra queens in the past by simply banking the cages on the top bars of a colony (with candy covered). I kept some for over a month last year and they remained viable. A friend just called and said that he had placed nine queens in a colony and two days later they were dead. These were in cages without attendants, and when placed in the colony he saw the bees feeding them. He feels that maybe he should have used a queen excluder between the old queen and the banked ones. I don't think I did that last year, unless it was by accident. Another friend has four queens from the same shipment banked the same way and they are alright as were the 25 already installed. Any comments? Jerry in PA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 00:10:37 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 21 Apr 1999 to 22 Apr 1999 (#1999-28) Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology In-Reply-To: <199904230408.AAA19411@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <199904230408.AAA19411@listserv.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >I will repeat: To get properly drawn foundation, use 10 (ten) frames of >foundation with each frame tightly touching each other in order to maintain >proper "bee space" I don't agree with that, If all the drawn comb is at one side and foundation at the other, or drawn comb in the centre, with foundation at the sides to maintain correct spacing, there should be no problem. I would also add that if there is no honey flow on, they should be copiously fed. -- Tom ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:27:39 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Emergency Queens. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thom Bradley wrote: > > Ah yes, you would have a unique situation. Interesting point that brings up, you > can obviously also control the purity of the line to a very high degree, moreso than > even breeding on an island. Breeding outside of the natural range of the species would > of course throw all towels out the window. Unforunately there are many packages imported into Alaska every spring. So even though we are outside of the natural range of the Honeybee the neighborhood drones my queens mate with are imports. This does limit my possibilities. Not as isolated as I might like for breeding winter hardiness. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:14:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Banking Queens In-Reply-To: <199904240038.UAA11159@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > A friend just called and said that he had placed nine queens in a > colony and two days later they were dead. There is quite a bit about this in the logs, so I'll just say that we have seldom had any loss just placing up to 100 on top bars immediately over a queenright brood chamber.` The major cause of loss seems to be related to placing them into hives that recede from the top bars at night when it gets cool, which leaves the queens unwarmed and unfed. Another major cause might be placing them on a colony that is being robbed or which is not being adequately fed. Unfortunately, it is hard to diagnose such problems at a distance because it is almost impossible to guess what someone might have done that you or I would have never though of doing. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:29:56 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: new scottish bees site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry about the bad url it should be:- http://www.luichartwoollens.freeserve.co.uk I hope this one works Harry ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:21:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: beesnews: varroa in caribbean Comments: cc: tommozer@hotmail.com mites have recently (past year or so) been detected and appear to be spreading in much of the west indies, especially the eastern caribbean (dominica,st.lucia,among others)...along with africanization, they have presented new challenges/opportunities for beekeepers in the antilles...anyone have further information available? posted for information/discussion purposes from the cyberbee website link: http://bees.msu.edu/news/jamaica.html Jamaica's bee industry under attack by parasitic mite By Earl Moxam KINGSTON, Jamaica, April 14 (Reuters) - Jamaica's apiaries, famed for producing a unique honey flavored with tropical nectars, are threatened by a parasitic honeybee mite, the Jamaican Ministry of Agriculture said Wednesday. The Caribbean island's US$2 million honey industry employs 2,000 people, most of them on small farms whose apiaries are enriched by the nectar from over 13,000 tropical plant species. The mite, Varroa jacobsoni, was discovered infesting a honeybee colony in Bull Bay near Kingston on February 18. Subsequent inspections revealed the pest was well established at surrounding apiaries, the ministry said in a statement. ``The Varroa mite is probably responsible for greater losses in beekeeping than any other pest of the honeybee, and it is more serious in situations where its presence is not detected until the problem is very advanced,'' Roy Murray, principal researcher at the ministry's research station, told Reuters. Beekeeper Oliver Smith, whose apiary in Westmoreland is more than 100 kilometers (62 miles) from the site of the first discovery, said the problem already may be out of control. ``Within three years, the whole island is likely to be affected and about 50 percent of the farmers could be wiped out as a result,'' Smith said. ``The purity of this unique brand of honey is under serious threat if the chemicals for treating the mite are not properly handled,'' he warned. The agriculture ministry sought to reassure that proper safeguards would be put in place, with controlled quantities of the chemicals to be distributed only to registered beekeepers, accompanied by a public education campaign. The Varroa jacobsoni mite has spread around the world through commercial transport of bees and queens, migration of beekeepers and the accidental transport of bees on ships and aircraft. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:54:38 -0700 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Banking queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry Barbor asks about putting queens in queen right bank hives and the varied response by colonies. I have done this in various ways for years. >From my observations I would make the following remarks: 1. Queens from the same breeder are quite different in their attractiveness to worker bees. 2. If you put even ten or twelve queen cages into a top nuc/bank and observe them by opening the hive quietly you'll see that bees are always clustered over some queen cages and practically ignore others in the same shipment from the same breeder. If you mark the cages that the bees ignore you find that the queens are soon rejected by the colonies to which you introduce them. 3. You can put queen cages on top of a two story hive with 15 combs of bees and an old queen successfully provided all the new queens are attractive, and that you don't put too many queens in. I don't know the magic number because every colony is different. 4. If you put the queens on top, or at the top, of a three story colony with the old queen kept in the bottom two boxes with an excluder your bank will be more successful. You can also bank queens over a new queen successfully if you put them at the top of a three story colony. 5. Success rate seems to be based upon the amount or level of queen pheromone in the bank, or distance from the lower queen. Queenless banks seem to do best, all other things being equal. You can also keep queens in a single story queenless hive making manipulation and nutrition feeding easier without competition from a laying queen. 6. If the bank colony is nervous, or uneven tempered, your success rate will go down. 7. I've known a beekeeper who kept 30 queens on top of a bank colony in a yard. He used to put thump tacks in the candy end of the cage to keep the bees from removing the candy. He moved the yard but left the queen bank. He forgot they were there and when he came back in 40 days the colony had swarmed but the queens appeared to have been properly cared for. 8. If bank colonies are fed Fumidil-B for several days prior to being used as a bank, and the queens and their attendants are also fed, the bank will be more successful. I have observed that the colony bees may even be noticeably quieter and less nervous after being fed Fumidil-B. 9. The variables in individual queens, queens from different breeders, and differences between the nature, nutrition, and behavior of the bank colony all have a role in the success of your chosen bank. 10. Queens seem to be bankable whether or not they have attendants in the cage. Though candy cages with attendants may be less stressful on the queens because there is no gap between their being fed by the bees in the package or battery box and then being fed by bees in the bank. 11. Then sometimes all you think you know goes out the window for unexplainable reasons. The differences between colonies are surprising and complex once you begin to carefully observe bee behavior. James C. Bach jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:09:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on pike.sover.net) Plindena from arc4a44.bf.sover.net [209.198.81.236] 209.198.81.236 Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:14:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: beesnews: varroa in caribbean MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tomas, Best idea is to do nothing and see what bees survive. Breed from these and you have the mite resistance. Good genes are found in about 10% of the bee population. You may have to import some resistant strains from the US, but your African bees may already be resistant. Follow the experience of Brasil, keep producing that organic tropical honey! Regards, Charles Andros Linden Apiaries since 1973 Former NH/VT Apiary Inspector '78-’89 Walpole, NH 03608-0165 USA/EUA 603-756-9056 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 20:24:58 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Emergency Queens. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > you say there are ways of putting cells in queen rite > hives in order to requeen, would you please tell us more on this > subject. I'm on lat 60 north, that Anchorage if you transfer to your side of the pond. A pretty short and intense summer so I have to cut time where possible to bee able to survive on beekeeping. Haven't time to fiddle around too much with queens when I only got june an july with good mating. So it's queenrearing, requeening, extracting honey basically at the same time. I have been using this method for a number of years with a result that I feel is good compared to the time spent. I use cells that are as close to hatching as possible. They are simply put in the top box on a queen right hive just before the main honey flow starts. No cell protector is needed when the old queen can't feel the new cell so far from the brood area where she is. I haven't used excluders when doing this, but it should be possible to leave a little hole in a corner of the excluder (bend the wires a little?) so the virgin gets down. When the virgin hatch, she will look up the old queen to kill her. This is what happens in 80% of the hives. In 20% the old queen survives and the virgin gets thrown out. This doesn't seem to depend on the queens age, there are often older (3 years) queens. When it happens I have to look up the old queen and remove her first, otherwise the same thing will happen next time again. Some queens might have stronger pheromones, or something else making the bees prefer them even when old. I have found that 60% of the hives will go into winter with the queen I supplied them. In the remaining 20%, the virgin kills the old queen and then the bees choose the emergency cells from larvae instead of accepting the virgin. A majority of the hives make some emergency cells when the old queen disappears, but generally the virgin will find and kill those queens before they hatch. Maybe some just miss one cell? There is another advantage with this system, the bees don't have any larvae to feed during the honey flow so everyone can go for honey instead and fill the supers for me. All the eggs are laid for the bees that are going to produce a crop (3-4 weeks honey flow) and no more bees are really needed at that time. The new mated queen will produce enough young bees for wintering after the main flow on late thistles and other nectar/pollen sources. You got to know what you are doing, using this system when there are some mistakes that can be made. First, don't put a cell in a hive that prepares to swarm! They will fly straight away.... Then there should be a flow going on so the bees got other things on their mind than my requeening. And of course, make sure there are enough bees in the top box to keep the cell warm until the virgin hatch. It takes me 2 minutes to produce a queen cell. Another 2 minutes to lift the lid and put the cell in a hive. If I do this on my ordinary rounds to check the bees, there is no extra time spent on transports. I find this quite a cost effective way to ensure a stable, no swarming breed of bees. When 80% of the hives got young queens, they are not prone to swarm. A very small amount of the hives (2-3%) end up without a queen, but I feel that's a low cost to pay. I keep a few mating nucs for back up so I can change those queens that goes wrong when wintering. Some of those emergence queens are very tiny things that I wouldn't want to leave in the hive over winter. That's how I have been doing it. It's working for me, might not for others. It depends a lot on where you are and how your season is. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:27:10 -0400 Reply-To: slnewc@alltel.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Newcomb Subject: MARKING EXISTING QUEENS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a few hives that I started with swarms. Right now, the queens are very productive. However, I'd like to mark them, if and when I see them, so that I can easily find them this fall when I plan to requeen. My question is: Can I remove the queen, cage and mark her, then reintroduce her to the same colony in a cage with a candy plug? What time of day should I introduce her? How long should I leave her out before I reintroduce her? The hives are in my backyard, so travel time is not a consideration. Thank you Steve Newcomb ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:17:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: AHB Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings All, Knowing how reliable the media is these days, I have to question what I heard on the radio today. The announcer said that Africanized Hybrid bees were as far north as Missouri. Another guy was telling me he had heard they were into Arkansas. I am sure these are rumors, but I havent seen any recent info on how far north they are now. Anyone out there have any idea? Thanks! Scott Moser ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 02:14:35 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: MARKING EXISTING QUEENS Comments: To: BEE-L Listserve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I have a few hives that I started with swarms. Right now, the queens are >very productive. However, I'd like to mark them, if and when I see them, >so that I can easily find them this fall when I plan to requeen. > >My question is: Can I remove the queen, cage and mark her, then reintroduce >her to the same colony in a cage with a candy plug? What time of day >should I introduce her? How long should I leave her out before I >reintroduce her? The hives are in my backyard, so travel time is not a >consideration. > >Thank you >Steve Newcomb Steve, There are several things to take into consideration when marking your queens... 1. Are you comfortable going into your hives without gloves? If you're not, I don't suggest trying to mark a queen. The gloves will very likely result in the maiming of your queen as capturing a queen takes a certain amount of deftness and care that gloves just can't give you (and it's very rare that a queen will sting you... they like using their stingers on other queens instead). Queens are robust, but are no match for a pair of heavy gloves. There are "queen catchers" on the market I've seen, but have not tried any myself. They just seem to be one more piece to control between your fingers and the queen. One of the catchers I've seen advertised looks like a butterfly clip, and another one looks like a mesh screen that you place over the queen and gently press into the comb until she's no longer able to move (and killing brood in the process no doubt). My advise is to forget the contraptions and use your fingers. 2. If you've never caught a queen before, don't start out your quest trying to catch one! Practice catching and marking drones instead (they won't sting you either... they have no stingers!). Smoke the hive lightly so the bees aren't scurrying around the comb like crazy, it will make the job easier. Using your thumb and forefinger gently grab a drone by the thorax (you NEVER want to grab the queen by the abdomen... it could damage her egg-laying ability). As you're pulling the bee off the comb, take your middle finger of the same hand and bring it underneath him (or her) to support the legs and abdomen. 3. Use a quick-drying fingernail polish and put a small dot on top of the thorax, making sure you don't get any on the wings, head, etc. When practicing on drones, use a different color than you will be using on the queen so your eyes don't always target those drones when you go back into the hive looking for the marked queen. If you want to follow the international color-coding system, mark your queens with red if they were introduced last year (the queens you get this fall will be marked with green). Let the paint dry for a couple minutes and turn the bee loose back on the comb. Once you've marked the queen she will more than likely scurry right back down into the darkness (drones will wander around or maybe even fly away, but usually not the queen). 4. Once you've practiced on several drones from a hive, I wouldn't bother trying to find the queen as you will probably have had the hive open long enough anyway. Besides, she will be more difficult to find with all the action that was going on. Come back to it another day. Go on to another hive for more practice until you're absolutely confident you have the "technique" down. 5. Since this operation only takes a few minutes (once you find the queen) and mark her right there on the spot, she is returned before the bees even new she was gone! I've found that you can keep a queen out of the hive anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour or so before they start to miss her. Since there was no caging, waiting or re-introduction the bees are stressed less and can pick back up where they left off. 6. As for what time of day is best, whenever the peak number of bees are out foraging as you'll have less bees in the hive to look through to find the queen. That's usually around 10:00-11:00, but varies with the nectar flow of the blooms they're working in your area. Morning or afternoon, just make sure it's a good day to work the bees! My biggest recomendation would be to go after those drones and practice, practice, practice! Especially if you only have a few hives in your back yard and no nucs or other queens ready to fall back on, the last thing you want to do is take a good queen out of operation! I hope this helps Steve... take care and good luck! --David Scribner ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:46:14 EDT Reply-To: GImasterBK@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: AHB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Africanized Honey Bee is in 5 states ONLY: Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, just entered Nevada and California in the past 6 months. Its northward travel seems to have stopped or slowed down in favor of spreading east and west. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:21:20 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: alwidnes Subject: Drone brood in super Comments: To: Bee-line MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a novice Bee keeper with two hives I acquired last year and successfully over wintered . This morning I inspected both hives, in one of the hives I was surprised to see in the super above the QX covering about 3 inches (on one frame only) Drone brood capped and uncapped also eggs. I could not see any worker brood at all. Neither could I see any queen in the super. I carried on and went into the brood chamber under the QX and there she was the marked Queen with eggs , worker brood both capped and uncapped. Any suggestions on what is happening and what do you think I should do, I am located in the north west of England. Regards Alan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 09:59:24 EDT Reply-To: RASpiek@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RASpiek@AOL.COM Subject: Re: MARKING EXISTING QUEENS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This sounds like the way to go. I never thought about practicing on drones. But, how do you hold them by the thorax and also paint the thorax? It seems as if my fingers would be in the way. Richard ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:38:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: R & S Adams Subject: "Co-op"ing an extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looking optimistically forward to extracting season, I have considered proposing to my local bee club that we purchase a co-op extractor. We have about 75 member beekeepers of all skill levels and sizes of operation. (There may be some that have large extractors that they will rent time on, but I'm not sure and will ask.) I wondered what creative ways other smaller volumn beekeepers have used to get access to extractors, without having to purchase one of their own. Our club has purchased Apistan and other supplies as a group, but never a jointly owned piece of equipment. I would like to be able to offer some of your suggestions along with any options that I can come up with. Thanks - Susan Adams ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:18:03 -0600 Reply-To: gerba@azstarnet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peggy Gerba Subject: neighborhood bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I have joined this list to find out more information about bees, particularly bees in suburban neighborhoods and africanized bees. A few days ago some members of our neighborhood association in Tucson, Az. were quite upset by their neighbors bee keeping activities. They addressed the group about a bee problems they are having. The homes on their street are on .9 acre. They like to have flowers and a small lawn. One of them has a pool. Their neighbor is keeping bee hives. They were Africanized last year, and after several bee attacks on the neighbors, the health department made the beekeeper get rid of them. The beekeeper got new hives a few weeks ago. Hundreds of bees are now ending up in the neighbors yards, mostly in the pool and the yard when it is being watered. Both of these people I spoke to have one or more members who are highly allergic to bee stings. The health department checked and the bee keeper seems to be in compliance now. I think they are being attracted to the water, but the health department seemed to think the beekeeper had enough water. These people would like to be able to enjoy their own yards without the fear of these bees. What can these people do to protect their families from the bees? Is there something that can be done to make these yards safe from these bees? Will they have the problems of bee attacks from these domestic bees-from my studies I got the impression that domestic bees were docile away from the hives.. How often do Africanized bees swarm? The beekeeper has docile bees now, but will they stay that way? I will forward any answers to these people since they are not on this list. Thanks in advance for any answers Peggy Gerba ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:22:27 -0700 Reply-To: ryarnell@orednet.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Subject: Re: "Co-op"ing an extractor Be sure to check with your State to make sure you meet all the food handling requirements they may impose. The Extractor may only be the beginning. Rules vary from place to place and may depend on whether you intend to sell any. >I have considered proposing to my local bee club that we purchase a co-op >extractor. -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 16:07:27 EDT Reply-To: Pollinator@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: neighborhood bees Comments: To: gerba@azstarnet.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/25/99 3:27:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gerba@azstarnet.com writes: >A few days ago some members of our neighborhood association in Tucson, Az. >were quite upset by their neighbors bee keeping activities......(snip) Your neighbor is the best long-term protection your community can have. As the africanized bees have tried to move eastward, they have been drastically slowed, even stopped, as they ran into areas of intense beekeeping. In your area, there were few beekeepers and a large ecological vacuum. The africanized bees swept right in, because there was little competition. Now that you have them, your community needs to have a designated, well-trained beekeeper on every block. No good beekeeper will tolerate mean bees. When I find a mean hive, I will find the queen and kill her, then replace her with a queen or a cell raised from gentle bee stock. I have to do this because my bees are almost all placed in orchards and vegetable fields for pollination, where people walk by them all the time. Your local beekeepers may not be able to fight the africanization, but there are gentle strains among them as well. They need to focus on breeding and culling to get good bees once again in your area whether European or African. When the ecologic niche is filled with well managed, gentle bees, there will be little opportunity for wild, untamed bees to prosper. The Brazillians have been living with them for decades, and they actually prefer the africanized bees. They are healthier and more productive. Certainly in our day of pollinator shortage, we should take advantage of the opportunity to breed a better bee. Having more beekeepers does not mean there will never be any bee problems. But in the long term there will be a reduction of extreme problems from savage bees. For generations people accepted the fact that bees sting. They didn't like it, but they lived with it. Nowadays anytime there is a sting (often by a yellow jacket, not even a bee) beekeepers get harrassed or sued. This is a classic case of stupidity in action, because a good beekeeper is far more help to a community than harm. Several years ago africanized bees escaped from a ship in port in Florida and became established. By the time they were discovered, the original hive had swarmed many times. Do you know where most of the swarms settled? ....In the community where they had an ordinance banning beekeeping! The more intensely bees are kept, the gentler they will become. Our Italian bees have been kept for several millinia, and they are quite tame by comparison to the German bee that's only been kept for a few hundred years. And the african bee was never kept until modern time. The Roman gardener, who may have had a dozen hives, had to kill one to harvest honey. Which one would he kill? Of course he'd kill the one that stung his kids every time they walked by. That's a breeding and culling program that promotes gentle bees. In central Africa, the bees were wild in the forest. When someone wanted honey, he would kill a colony in a hollow tree. The colonies most likely to survive were the ones that were ferocious enough to drive off the robber. That's selective breeding in favor of fierceness. Modern American beekeepers have tools that can speed up the breeding and culling proceess a great deal. But they must have the opportunity. If you drive them from the community, you will then have NO controls and you will deserve the wild bees that you have to deal with. Promote beekeeping in every way you can. Make sure new beekeepers are well trained; africanized bees are not a project for amateurs. You've already lost ground that you have to regain, and it is a lot harder that way. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:25:48 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: MARKING EXISTING QUEENS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >This sounds like the way to go. I never thought about practicing on drones. >But, how do you hold them by the thorax and also paint the thorax? It seems >as if my fingers would be in the way. >Richard Once you've caught her, with your thumb on one side, the forefinger on the other and the middle finger underneath slide the thumb and forefinger down her sides a little. This should leave just enough space between the two to get the small paint brush from the bottle of polish in there for a dab. You don't have to hold her tight, just enough to keep her from crawling away. If you have to slide your fingers down to the point of trapping her legs between the two fingers to get the paint brush tip in there, just make sure you trap at least two legs on each side. This will keep her from twisting accidentally and damaging a leg. If your fingers are too big for this, try swapping her into your other hand by putting the fingertips of three or four fingers on that hand together forming a little "tunnel" in the middle of them. You can then put you fingertips from both hands together, loosen the pressure holding her in your first hand and let her start to crawl into that tunnel. Once she's got her head and part of her thorax in the tunnel you can keep a little pressure on her to keep her from crawling further. This should leave enough of the thorax visible to add a dot of paint. This is also a good way to hold her if you ever want to clip her wings as it leaves them exposed as well. If you do clip her wings it's only necessary to clip off about two-thirds of one set of wings. I've used a small pair of sharp scissors I "borrowed" from my wife's manicure set, but I've seen one beekeeper in Texas slide the queen's wing-set on one side of her over the top of the open super so they are flat on the edge. Then, using the sharp edge of his hive tool (or a pen knife) he would press down through them and into the super edge to cut them off at the desired length. I know it's a difficult picture to put into words, but once you practice on some drones it will all come clear. --David Scribner ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:12:25 EDT Reply-To: Pollinator@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Drone brood in super MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/25/99 12:10:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alwidnes@BREATHEMAIL.NET writes: > This morning I inspected both hives, in one of the hives I was surprised to > see in the super above the QX covering about 3 inches (on one frame only) > Drone brood capped and uncapped also eggs. I could not see any worker brood > at all. Neither could I see any queen in the super. > I carried on and went into the brood chamber under the QX and there she > was the marked Queen with eggs , worker brood both capped and uncapped. > Any suggestions on what is happening and what do you think I should do, I > am located in the north west of England. You may have a damaged excluder, or a smaller than normal queen that moves back and forth. It's easy to have a bent wire on the excluder that you don't notice. Remember too that bees *need* to have some drone brood. If they don't have it in the brood chamber, they will make burr comb between boxes, or the queen will try harder to get through the excluder. Sometimes they will tear out worker brood comb to make drone comb. I've heard that it is possible to have laying workers, even with a good queen, but that's just speculation on my part....... I've never personally seen evidence of this. Laying workers place the eggs on the sides of the cells rather than the bottom, so if you can find eggs, you can determine this. There are also rumors of workers moving eggs, but I'm more skeptical of this.... You can search the archives for more info; it's been discussed. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:09:03 -0400 Reply-To: String & Linda Monteith Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: String & Linda Monteith Subject: Re: neighborhood bees Comments: To: gerba@azstarnet.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >The beekeeper has docile bees now, but will they stay that way? Peggy, I have had bees for 4 years now. We only have one hive at present, but have had 4 hives in past years. We live on one acre and the hives are within inches of our house. I have been stung while working the bees (in the hive) without protection. Other than myself, the neighbors and my husband have never been stung. One of my three sons (who spend most of their time outside in the summer) did get stung when he stepped on a bee in the lawn while running barefoot. My advice is, tell your neighbors not to go barefoot, and not to worry. My sons are VERY active and other than that one incident - have not been stung. Honeybees are non-aggressive (I know nothing about African bees). If a bee lands on you, don't swat it. They are sometimes attracted by perfumes, but once they realize you are not edible, they will fly off on their own. Also, if you have flowers or a garden-expect wonderful production & thank the bees! Linda ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 16:51:55 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: free Bee-Vac plans & pics by e-mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Just to let you know, the BeeVac plans I've promised several beekeepers is now available - though on a temporary link to Barry Birkey's site. While Barry is perfecting the information before adding the final BeeVac page(s), he went through the trouble of making a temporary link (available by e-mail to either myself or Barry) for those whom wish to build their bee-vac while the swarm season is still upon us. After you build your very own super-duper deluxe bee-vac, as always I'll be available for questions by e-mail in removing those feral hives you've always wanted to add to your apiary. Happy Keeping, Matthew Westall // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:45:20 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Drone brood in super Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU In-Reply-To: <199904251323.JAA02852@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > This morning I inspected both hives, in one of the hives I was surprised to > see in the super above the QX covering about 3 inches (on one frame only) > Drone brood capped and uncapped also eggs. I could not see any worker brood > at all. Neither could I see any queen in the super. > I carried on and went into the brood chamber under the QX and there she > was the marked Queen with eggs , worker brood both capped and uncapped. > Any suggestions on what is happening and what do you think I should do, I > am located in the north west of England. This is a copy (slightly amended) of what I sent to the Kent list when this same question appeared there. As exactly the same question was asked there. I thought Bee-Ler's might like to know a possible answer Dr. Ben Oldroyd from Sydney has shown that workers can lay eggs above the excluder and these will mature and hatch as drones. I know this because Dr. Oldroyd asked beekeepers to keep a lookout for this happening. I had one hive that did this. I sent him samples and DNA showed it was workers laying the drones above the excluder. They only did it for a short time. If I find the reference, I will post the details of the paper by Dr. Oldroyd. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:08:39 EDT Reply-To: KingBeeJRV@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: KingBeeJRV@AOL.COM Subject: Re: neighborhood bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Peggy Gerba & Bee Friends, I would hope your neighborhood association in Tucson, AZ. realizes the importance of Honeybees. I have a hive of bees at a friends house . 25 acre. If this neighborhood beekeeper does all the right things you shouldn't have any problems. If I were him I certainly would provide water for the bees using entrance feeders and make sure the flight paths of the bees are away from the property line and side walks. If anyone in the neighborhood has fruit trees or veggie gardens they will benefit greatly from the bee being there. Generally the standard "European" honeybee is a gentle and non-aggressive. Not the case with "Africanized" honeybees. Of course anything that sings is labeled a bee, a bad rap for us beekeepers. Honeybees are a beneficial insects, not a pests. John CT ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:16:01 -0400 Reply-To: ad012@osfn.rhilinet.gov Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frederick Chase Subject: do bees have memory? Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Is there any evidence from scientific research or practical experience that bees have memory? If I upset them by my work in the hive and they display that anger by their buzzing or stinging will they remember this the next day and be the more likely to be angry again? What about two hours later or one hour later? In other words, if they do possess memory how long do their memories last? Fred Chase ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:03:26 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: MARKING EXISTING QUEENS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RASpiek@aol.com wrote: > > This sounds like the way to go. I never thought about practicing on drones. > But, how do you hold them by the thorax and also paint the thorax? It seems > as if my fingers would be in the way. > Richard This is probably a no-no, but I have for many years simply picked up queens by the wings and gently put a dot of quick drying paint onthe thorax. Then after a couple minutes to let the paint dry you release the queen. I have never had a problem with this method beyond occasionaly getting a little paint on my fingers. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:42:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Rich Subject: Re: neighborhood bees Peggy Gerba said: " I think they are being attracted to the water, but the health department seemed to think the beekeeper had enough water. " This may be so. I have an ample water source for my hives that is less than 10 feet from the hives. There are some bees that drink from my dog's water dish, from the goat's water bucket(where they seem to drown), and from my in-laws dog's dish(next door). I have never seen them drinking from the hen's waterer. In spite of this, only I have gotten stung(later edit - my wife reminds me that she was out there investigating the open hive without the bee net on and after freeing a bee several times from her hair, it finally decided that stinging her would be a good way to end the struggle). The most interesting water source, enjoyed by a number of them of them get water from the hose(they crawl up the hose end - until we put a spray nozzle on the end), the faucet where the hose is connected, and the downspout drain pipe. "These people would like to be able to enjoy their own yards without the fear of these bees. What can these people do to protect their families from the bees? Is there something that can be done to make these yards safe from these bees?" Here are two distinct questions - safety(protection) and fear. I have four children who are more than active. Despite many and continuing attempts to stop him, my oldest son has not learned to not play in front of the hive. He also has tried feeding them cracked corn(it is a wonder what a child can do in so little time), herb leaves, and who knows what we have not seen him do. I am sure that some day the bee's will teach him what we have failed to teach him. My other son is not quite so adventurous, but has demonstrated a lack of carefulness around the hives, though they have to work hard to get where the bees are, and aren't supposed to be there without me. Safety for the children and those not opening the hive has been not too much of a question. The big safety issue you mentioned it bee sting allergy. This is a serious question, and definitely an issue if the last year's hive contained Africanized bees. I was allergic to bee stings before keeping bees, and this was my biggest fear(my kids and my mouth got me into this mess). I have been stung several times and now get less of a reaction to bee stings than I do from mosquito bites(this does not constitute medical advice, but rather is an accurate description of my experience). I still have an incredible fear of bees - knowing that there is little danger for me. In fact, my first time opening the hive again this year I wore gloves, long sleeve shirt, etc. to avoid 'bee stings'. Since this time, I did split one hive and re-queened one hive - without the bee net secured and without gloves. However, I still am 'afraid' of being stung. Here is the other part of your question, in respect to the above paragraph. The fears that we have are seldom overcome - especially when there is no motive for overcoming the fears. In a neighborhood where there were AHB attacks last year, it would be unlikely that all neighbors *would* overcome the fear of bees. *Could* may be a different issue. The bee keeper quite possibly has a long term project ahead to make peace with all concerned, based on his last years' experience. You mentioned 'hives' - my assumption would be more than one, but I don't know how many. Having only one hive may be a good way to improve the relationship. Best wishes to you and your neighborhood. My neighbors like having my bees in their gardens. Tim Rich Bee Keeper for my son's bees - and now a hive of my own! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:09:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rich Subject: Re: "Co-op"ing an extractor Comments: To: R & S Adams In-Reply-To: <199904251657.MAA05104@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Our club has co-op'ed a couple of extractors now for many years; a small 2 frame hand crank and a larger 10 frame electric. Our club is only 35 members. It seems to work for us. Rich On Sun, 25 Apr 1999, R & S Adams wrote: I have considered proposing to my local bee club that we purchase a co-op extractor. Thanks - Susan Adams ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:15:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rich Subject: Re: "Co-op"ing an extractor Comments: To: Richard Yarnell In-Reply-To: <199904252016.QAA07589@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think that if somebody is making SO MUCH honey that they are in the business, then THEY can afford their own extractor. I think it is a great idea for a club of INDIVIDUALS who do it as a hobby for personal consumption. Rich On Sun, 25 Apr 1999, Richard Yarnell wrote: Be sure to check with your State to make sure you meet all the food handling requirements they may impose. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:06:57 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Varroa Resistant Honey Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain This message is relayed from Luis Rommel Beutelspacher. ------------------- Greetings from Southern Mexico !!! I believe one thing has not been cleared concerning varroa resistant = honey bees: WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF VARROA RESISTANT HONEY BEES? How much tolerance is considered "resistant"? There are around 500,000 colonies in the area of Mexico where I live and = I believe that a great portion of this hives are never treated for = varroa, since they are kept by rural beekeepers with very rustic = tecnics. I am fairly new into beekeeping (two years) and I have not = treated any of my hives (included the first 10 that I purchased two = years ago). In how long is varroa supposed to kill a hive? After how = long of having varroa in a hive is this considered "resistant"? The hives seem to be working normally and the original 10 hives have now = 3 supers on and will yield a very good honey crop in a few weeks. I = have seen varroa in many of my hives but they don't seem to diminish the = population in a noticeable way. I had a visit from Mr. Ken Hoare from England last week (Thanks to = Bee-L). He used to work as an bee inspector for many years in UK. He = looked at those original 10 hives and graded them as "In excellent = shape". He didn't even think of them to be aggresive !!! One last comment. I have recently started my queen rearing operation, = and bought a few queens from some suppliers from northern Mexico to use = as breeding queens. These are not as africanized as the ones we usually = work with. I have noticed in my breeding apiary a little more varroa = than on the other apiaries. I believe that the africanized strain that = we usually have here in Yucatan might be some what "resistant" to = varroa. Wish you all happy honeying ! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Luis Rommel Beutelspacher (\ Maya Honey S.A. de C.V. -{|||8- Ticul, Yucat=E1n, M=E9xico. (/ Tel/Fax (997) 20715 rommel@mayahoney.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:29:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Bees in an Africanized area MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peggy asks many good questions concerning keeping European bees in an Africanized area. I will try to help her understanding. Peggy, your attempt to find more information to pass on to your non-beekeeping neighbors is admirable. Have you talked to the beekeeper? My guess is that he or she would welcome your approach and would go into great detail concerning how she intends to be a good neighbor, and have her bees be good neighbors as well! "Hundreds of bees are now ending up in the neighbors yards, mostly in the pool and the yard when it is being watered." Yep, bees need lots of water at the time of the year when nectar is not available. Nectar contains up to 90% water, so when nectar is available bees get their water from that source. They use the water to cool their hive and to dilute honey to feed it to their brood. If the beekeeper has lots of water, I am surprised that the bees are also getting water from others. Perhaps the beekeeper did not make the water available soon enough (probably in February in your climate), and the bees became acclimatized to water available elsewhere. This is a good question to ask the beekeeper. "What can these people do to protect their families from the bees? Is there something that can be done to make these yards safe from these bees?" I do not know of anything that will keep bees away from a given area. Perhaps others will have some suggestions. That said, foraging European honey bees will not attack people unless they are pretty threatened. Unfortunately, being stepped on by a bare foot, rolled on by a bikini-clad teenager, or having a hand put on top of a bee drinking by a pool, all qualify as "severe threats". I think the same is true of Africanized bees...while foraging, they will not attack unless under severe threat. However, this is also true of all wasps, native bees, etc. I can't be of much help on this one. "The beekeeper has docile bees now, but will they stay that way?" Again, this is an excellent question to ask your beekeeper neighbor. If the beekeeper is expert and wants to keep the bees gentle, it can easily be done. It requires regular re-queening (from a queen breeder certain to be producing gentle bees), and keeping strong hives that will resist invasion. I hope I have helped and you can all quickly get back to being good neighbors. Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:29:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Handling queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom said "This is probably a no-no, but I have for many years simply picked up queens by the wings and gently put a dot of quick drying paint onthe thorax." Actually, Tom, as far as I know all the experts suggesting picking up the queen by her wings, and the only queen breeder I personally know has his people do just that for marking. Picking up by the wings is much safer than the thorax, as there is nothing to squeeze. That said, it is real easy to "miss" trying to grasp both wings, which means you have to let the queen go and try again. If you try to hang on to one wing, she will twist and can actually tear the wing off...ugh! After grasping both wings, let her hold on to your fingers with her legs, trapping them if it makes you feel better. I do so little queen catching that I always practice first on a couple of drones. Someone mentioned the clamshell queen catcher. This works great, but is only good for catching a queen, not holding her. That said, it is the best tool I know for moving a queen from a hive to a nuc or vice versa. Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:56:41 -0700 Reply-To: ryarnell@orednet.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Subject: Re: "Co-op"ing an extractor It is a great idea. However, State food handling rules differ greatly. An individual who uses all his product won't be affected. However, it is possible that a club or organization may not be exempt from food handling rules depending on how it is organized and how use of a co-op extractor is arranged. And some of the folks who produce more honey than they can use but who fall short of being in business, may wish to market some of their honey to recoup some costs. It is easy to find out which, if any, rules apply. If questions are properly phrased, it may be possible to learn how to avoid becoming subject to rules which might otherwise apply. Better to know now than get nailed later. And, frankly, while some of the rules seem tedious or silly, most have been developed to ensure a clean and safe product. Familiarity with them can't hurt. >I think that if somebody is making SO MUCH honey that they are in the >business, then THEY can afford their own extractor. I think it is a great >idea for a club of INDIVIDUALS who do it as a hobby for personal >consumption. Rich >On Sun, 25 Apr 1999, Richard Yarnell wrote: >Be sure to check with your State to make sure you meet all the food >handling requirements they may impose. -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:00:39 -0400 Reply-To: Midnitebee Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: corrugated nuc box MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! I would like to purchase corrugated nuc boxes. Anyone on the list have a contact? Also,George's April issue of the "Pink Pages" has been updated. Herb Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee "An educated consumer is YOUR best customer" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:37:37 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Tracheal Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This may be a silly question, but not being a chemist if someone can enlighten me I would appreciate it... In a book by John Crompton, "A Hive of Bees", (1958) there is reference to a "cure" to the tracheal mite (A. woodi) problem that was rampant in England. The cure, developed by R.W. Frow in 1927, was a mixture of "petrol, nitrobenzene, and saffrol oil. The idea was to apply it to the hive on a pad so that the fumes permeated the whole hive. The bees... would breath it and (perforce) the mites, and the mites would be killed and the bees would not." Mr. Crompton also wrote that the cure would "kill the eggs of the mites as well." Accordingly, the dose had to be precise to not kill the bees, as "the correct dosage... is a hair's-breadth matter when both the mite and its host are breathing in poison: fortunately the mite is a little more susceptible." The treatment was usually given in winter. I know a lot of work has been done in developing resistant bees, and menthol and essential oils are used by many (with varying success). And, I assume that this "recipe" (though not detailed in the book) is not condoned due to the nature of beeswax absorbing and retaining toxic chemicals long after they've been removed from the hive (contaminating future honey stores), and/or the volatility(?) of the mixture. However, since the saffrol oil was probably just a base "carrier" medium for the other two substances I was wondering if anyone knew if further testing had ever been done to determine why petrol and nitrobenzene were used together. Was there a substance in the petrol that reacted or combined with nitrobenzene to produce the toxin? Also, has any testing been done to determine if similar, but safer to use (if there are any), substances have the same effects on mites without killing the bees? Thanks in advance for any answers. --David Scribner ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:19:47 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: do bees have memory? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Fred Chase inquired: >Is there any evidence from scientific research or practical >experience that bees have memory? > >If I upset them by my work in the hive and they display that >anger by their buzzing or stinging will they remember this >the next day and be the more likely to be angry again? > >What about two hours later or one hour later? In other words, >if they do possess memory how long do their memories last? I worked extensively with two of my uncles in large scale beekeeping operations. Both of them had the same genetic stock. One of the uncles (Clarence) was an artist in his work and handled the colonies with exceptional care. His bees were always very tame; working them was a pleasure. The other uncle (Leo) was very rough in his handling of colonies. When we came into one of his yards, the bees came out to meet us. How long do they remember? I know some individuals can remember the location of a good food source for well more than a week. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ********** * * "I cannot give any scientist of any age better advice than this: The intensity * of the conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing on whether it is true * or not." * Peter Medawar (1979) * **************************************************************************** ********** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:22:24 EDT Reply-To: WGMiller@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: WGMiller@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Drone brood in super MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wouldnt be to quick to claim dronelaying workers. Every time I found brood above a queen excluder, it has meant that the queen somehow got into the supers. Possible reasons include: 1) Bent wire in the queen excluder 2) Impropery installed queen excluder (the queen goes around an edge inside the hive). 3) Queen is too small to be stopped by the queen excluder. 4) Queen had laid eggs in the supers before the queen excluder was installed. Incidentally, just let the drone brood hatch out. If a nectar flow is on, the cells will be refilled with honey as if nothing happened. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:12:31 -0700 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Marking queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In following this thread I've noted that no one mentioned the problem caused by marking more than one queen consecutively. If you use your bare fingers as Tom Elliott and I do, you will pick her up by the wings, then set her feet on the forefinger of your other hand and hold all three legs on one side between your forefinger and thumb. Then paint her. You must wash your fingers with alcohol between picking up queens. In the early days I watched people pick up queens without doing this and saw several queens attacked by their nest mates. Wash your fingers and this doesn't happen. Presumably you transfer the odor of one queen to the next on your bare fingers. I sometimes use a screen device which you can use to press her against the comb and paint her thorax through the screen. This works well in nasty hives. It works well for persons who are nervous about picking up a queen by her wings. You might also want to wash the device with alcohol between queens to be marked. James C. Bach jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:19:54 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Varroa Resistant Honey Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Luis Rommel Beutelspacher wondered (relayed via Allen Dick): >WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF VARROA RESISTANT HONEY BEES? >How much tolerance is considered "resistant"?
>I believe that a great portion of this hives are never treated for >varroa, since they are kept by rural beekeepers with very rustic >techniques. I am fairly new into beekeeping (two years) and I have not >treated any of my hives (included the first 10 that I purchased two >years ago). In how long is varroa supposed to kill a hive? After how >long of having varroa in a hive is this considered "resistant"?
In an experiment on Santa Cruz Island off the coast of Santa Barbara, we found that all colonies survived the introduction of varroa a good two years with no treatment. That means that one should not run an experiment on varroa resistance or tolerance for less than three years. In the third year, colony demise occurred quite rapidly on the island. A few of the monitored colonies survived that year, but by the beginning of the fourth year all monitored colonies had perished. In Santa Barbara proper, we now have good survival of feral colonies --- obviously without treatment. I consider that survival to be a POPULATION phenomenon, in that queens mate with drones from colonies that have also had no treatment. I treated this possibility more fully in this network on 21 April. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ********** * * "I cannot give any scientist of any age better advice than this: The intensity * of the conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing on whether it is true * or not." * Peter Medawar (1979) * **************************************************************************** ********** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:46:42 -0400 Reply-To: String & Linda Monteith Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: String & Linda Monteith Subject: Re: neighborhood bees Comments: To: gerba@azstarnet.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >What can these people do to protect their families from the bees? Is >there something that can be done to make these yards safe from these >bees? Peggy, I have been a beekeeper for four years. Our bee hives are within inches of the side of our house. Domestic honeybees are not aggressive and among my VERY active sons, only one has been stung (only once) and that was because he was running barefoot through the grass and stepped on a bee. We have lots of clover in the lawn, if you do also - wear shoes. Also, you may want to get to know the difference in insects. We have had calls about bees bothering people across town. They were yellow jackets on several occasions and wasps another time. Our neighbors like the bees. Their flowers have more and larger blooms and their apple and pear trees are producing better than they ever have. The pool will probably attract the bees. I don't know of a solution there. You may want to ask the beekeeper to keep an available source of water for the bees, but the bees may still go for the pool. If a bee comes near (or on) you, don't swat at it. If it feels threatened, it may sting. My boys love to sit near our hive and watch the bees. They land on them and fly off again. No problem. My husband even cuts the grass around the hive with the weed-eater while wearing shorts and sandals! I understand your fear of the bees for I was afraid of them also until I decided to get a hive to help my garden. Now I am totally fascinated by them. They really are amazing! I hope you come to appreciate them. You may also want to read last month's Mother Earth News. It has a superb article about honey uses that I didn't even know. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:46:51 EDT Reply-To: Pollinator@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Afrobeetle control? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone tried diatomaceous earth for beetle control? Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:49:22 -0400 Reply-To: slnewc@alltel.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Newcomb Subject: MARKING EXISTING QUEENS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you to everyone for your replies. I rarely use gloves, and pick up drones and workers all the time with bare hands, so that is not an issue with me. I tried the technique of marking the queen and re-introducing her after a few minutes, last year, and the workers balled and killed her immediately. This is why I want to try the cage technique. I am assuming that if I plug the hole in the cage with a piece of marshmallow, it will take the bees a day or two to release her, and they will treat her like a new queen. I'll let you know what happens. Steve Newcomb ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:22:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: MDA Splitters (Corregated Boxes) Comments: To: Herb Butz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT It took quite a bit of searching in back issues of "Bee Culture", but I finally found the ad for MDA Splitters (corregated cardboard boxes for putting up splits/nucs). MDA splitters also come in corregated plastic (more durable and more expensive). I have never used MDA splitters so I cannot offer personal testimony other than I saw an MDA splitter demonstration at EAS last summer and I was impressed with the product. MDA Splitter PO Box 9552 Wyoming, MI 49509 (616) 241-3235 MDA@IX.netcom.com Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:10:01 EDT Reply-To: KingBeeJRV@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: KingBeeJRV@AOL.COM Subject: Barefoot / neighborhood bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bee Friends, I never really put much thought into it. I can't remember the last time I walked barefoot outside. Not because I'm afraid to step on a "HONEYBEE". I think the reason is a trip I took to the emergency room for stitches in my foot. There is too many other things that could be hidden in the grass to think about. With six hives in the back yard, HONEYBEE aren't even a concern. And we have a nice yard. Why take the chance? Remembering the anxiety my girlfriend Martha felt when I introduced her to beekeeping. I would think neighborhood association in Tucson, AZ would benifit from a "Introduction to Beekeeping" course to get over their fears. Martha can now handle frams barehanded. John CT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:08:36 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Raising Queens in Bad Weather MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Those who have been following the discussions here lately know we have decided once again to raise queens from our own stock. A few years ago we did so, but we expanded suddenly, and the also the price of honey went high enough that it paid us to have someone else sell us queens. Since then, although we have had some great successes, particularly with some Australian queens, we have noticed some effects that we attribute to some of the new stock. We bought queens from many sources, and some may not have had as good wintering genes. Some hives just never seemed to achieve the populations we expect, and the queens may have been poorly raised. Who knows? Anyhow, we wrestled with the question of whether to use the split-and-run method whereby we just broke each hive in two and left it to raise a queen or to select and graft and use cells for splits. We chose the latter, not because we believe that emergency queens are inferior (we use queenless cell builders, so all our grafted cells are 'emergency' cell), but because we could not spare the extra 10 days to get a laying queen. We have contracts that specify hive strength on July 1. Grafting is a *lot* more work, and consume resources. The biggest problem we face is getting cell raising as early as we like. If is at all cool or rainy, we find that there is not a lot of jelly in the cells and the bees do not feed the cells as well as we would like, or accept them as readily -- even when we have pollen cakes on the hives and syrup in the feeders. Late April here is cool & rainy. So can early May be less than ideal. We have lots of drones well on the way and don't expect them to be a problem. I am wondering what tricks anyone can offer to get good cells in good numbers early. We have tried swarm boxes and just been very unhappy with them. Our preferred method is a two storey queenless colony for starting and finishing the cells. Is there something better for cool weather? allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:03:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Queens in cool weather MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen, you said "I am wondering what tricks anyone can offer to get good cells in good numbers early. We have tried swarm boxes and just been very unhappy with them. Our preferred method is a two storey queenless colony for starting and finishing the cells. Is there something better for cool weather?" You know me well enough to know I am not an expert, but I will say that for the rest of the list. That said, a very successful breeder that I know claims you can raise outstanding virgins just by being sure that your queenless (and broodless) colonies have no less than 10 pounds of bees (approximately) and all the pollen patty they can consume (about one pound). (This is for 50 queens to a colony.) He says the challenge is not getting good queens in cool weather, it is having enough drones! He wants at least 100 drones per virgin, and those should be no less than two weeks old. Drones, I understand, is what can be hard to come by in cool weather. Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:19:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vivian Donahue Subject: strange noises Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This afternoon I put on a new brood chamber and several new empty (drawn) supers on my very crowded backyard hive. As I sat next to my hive enjoying watching the spring activity, I heard a sound I've never noticed before. It sounded a little like a cross between crinkling paper and a light rain coming from inside the hive. Almost like the bees were on the insides of the new additions with tap shoes? I've kept bees off and on for over 20 years (all as a small hobbiest) and have never noticed this before. Perhaps I've not been very observant, but this really struck me as odd. Has anyone else ever noticed such a phenonomen? Vivian ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:41:28 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Raising Queens in Bad Weather In-Reply-To: <199904271701.NAA16704@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Allen Dick wrote: > I am wondering what tricks anyone can offer to get good cells in good > numbers early. We have tried swarm boxes and just been very unhappy with > them. Our preferred method is a two storey queenless colony for starting > and finishing the cells. Is there something better for cool weather? Hi Allen: I have been using insulated inner covers year round for some time and We seem to get about the same results from grafted cells in warm or bad weather. Could you try insulating the cell builder and see if you get better results? If you have pollen and syrup, about all the bad weather can do to the house bees is chill them. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:32:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Marc Studebaker Subject: Re: Raising Queens in Bad Weather MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Allen Dick Subject: Raising Queens in Bad Weather >I am wondering what tricks anyone can offer to get good cells in good >numbers early. We have tried swarm boxes and just been very unhappy with >them. Our preferred method is a two storey queenless colony for starting >and finishing the cells. Is there something better for cool weather? Allen I have had good luck raising queens during bad weather using a cloake board, created by H. Cloake a New Zealand queen rearer. This is fully described in Bee Culture December 1993 as the cell door. It is basically a way to make the top story of a queenright hive, queenless, while forcing all the bees into the top story. This makes them eager to feed the grafts profusely. 24 hours later the slide is removed to make a queenright finisher. This is all done from outside of the hive. this is less disturbance to the hive and weather doesn't affect their acceptance. You still need drones mature enough to mate though. I hope you have access to this article. Good Luck Marc Studebaker Geneva, IN. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:55:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Is Pollen Necessary in a Protein Patty? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Is Pollen Necessary in a Protein Patty? Yes -- and no. We tried a range of protein patties this spring, starting application earlier than other years, in mid-March. Formulations included (by weight) 1.) 50 yeast, 50 soy, 8.5 pollen, 145 sugar, 53 water 2.) 72 yeast, 24 soy, 8.5 pollen, 145 sugar, 53 water 3.) 96 yeast, 8.5 pollen, 145 sugar, 53 water and 4.) Some using BeePro in various ratios in place of other ingredients. Each formula was tried with and without the (purchased) one-year-old air- dried natural pollen from Northern Alberta. We also made some patties with 33% pollen for neighbours. The water content and the soy contents were varied slightly as the mixing progress proceeded to adjust consistency. This year, we made the patties stiff enough that, when dusted with soy flour in packaging, they did not adhere to the waxed scale paper so much that they would not release it when we put them into hives later. As a result, we could usually peel back the wax paper, and did not always have to slit the paper to allow bees access. This saved considerable time in application. I have heard no reports of patties getting too stiff in the hives for the bees to eat them. I attribute this to the high sugar levels. All patty formulations were accepted and consumed -- and continue to be consumed -- well by all hives. However -- so far -- our conclusions are that the pollen added, even in small amounts, increases consumption up to 100%, particularly in smaller hives. This confirms Mark's conclusions. Further background details are still at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ under the 'Pollen Patties' Link. We will continue to make observations and report to this list. Other comments are appreciated, as always. More later. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:01:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Bozard, Charles Emmett (Mick)" Subject: Goin to expand from 50+ to 350+ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain HI everybody, my name is Mick Bozard. I live in the low country of the great state of South Carolina. I am a member of the Low Country beekeepers association and the current president of the Calhoun Area beekeepers association. I have looked, learned, and listened for about three years now on bee-L. I have read all the postings and teachings of the greater intellectual ones, such as Andy, and was sad of his passing. I have made some great friends off bee-L, hi Matthew! But i have really just kept quiet, only to learn. I now would like to pose some questions, for my father and i are planning to expand to 350+ this year. I have read all the postings on queen rearing, and found some to bee very interesting. I took a susan colby short course on artificial insemination, and that was good. but my question still lingers in my head, what is the best method ? David Green, you seem to be pretty smart fella, you got to bee, you're from S.C.. What is your method ? by the way david, i sat in your pollination course last summer at the greatest school in the universe, you know CLEMSON ! I would like to thank everybody that has donated a post and their experiences to bee-L, y'all are a great group of people, thanks again ! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:35:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chris and Janet Sauer Subject: Re: MDA Splitter In-Reply-To: <199904280405.AAA28850@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just purchased some corrugated plastic nuc boxes from Mann Lake for $10 each. They were easy to set up, light and easy to handle. I would only use them for splitting (temporary holding of bees) as the space between the frames is not regular due to the wire handles. FWIW. Colesburg Apiaries Chris and Janet Sauer www.greathoney.com (319) 856-2015 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:05:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BOGANSRJ@APCI.COM Subject: Swarm Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I have had pretty good luck with queens from swarm cells, so when I find a colony preparing to swarm I will split it up into nucs using the swarm cells for the queen source. I mentioned in an earlier post about finding a colony ready to swarm in early April, too soon for around here. I made three nucs and only one has a successfully mated queen. They hatched in all three and destroyed other cells so I know they were there but they probably never returned from the mating flight. Last week I found another colony in the early stages of swarm cell production. I split this one a little different and just brought home one nuc. I remember looking close and did not notice the queen on the frame. I placed it in the yard near another colony. This other colony was later moved and some of the field force ended up in the nuc. It appeared a bit crowded so I felt it could be moved into a hive body. As I was transferring the frames I noticed young larvae and eggs. I knew there was not enough time for the queen to hatch, mate and begin laying. Because it was late in the day the frames were covered with bees and I could not find the queen. What I did find was the swarm cell about ready to hatch. I really want the queen from that cell so I transferred it to yet another nuc. The weather is warmer and there are a good number of drones so I can hope for a successful mating. I realize that sometimes a colony swarms regardless of what you do, but I didn't think a small nuc would swarm in spite of the fact that the original queen may still be there. She obviously began laying again, something I don't think she would do if preparing to swarm. So why did the colony continue to raise the queen cell? I know they can judge a queen better than I, but she was doing well and I don't think they want to supersede her. She is less than a year old, not a drone layer, and has a good brood pattern. Any thoughts? Ron Bogansky Kutztown, PA USA The only thing worse than a mail carrier with sore feet is a beekeeper with a bad back! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:38:03 EDT Reply-To: GImasterBK@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: The MIDNITEBEE is back and "up and runnng again! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Herb Butz, author of the URL, midnitebee, has been hospitalized for most of the month of April unknown to me until yesterday. After numerous inquiries, it appears that he is back home and the long nap of the midnitebee has been awakened. It is GOOD to have you back HERB! Noting many of the questions that have been asked on the BEE-L during the last several weeks, maybe my edition of the APRIL PINK PAGES might help many of you: particularly the two April articles entitled: FEEDING NEW BEES, and SUPERING. The URL of the midnitebee is: http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ I hope that all of you have a fine season; and hope that many of you will shake my hand and say "hi" at the July meeting of EAS in Maryville (near Knoxville), Tennessee. Because of my strokes, just look for that "old man" exceeding the speed limit in his electric scooter. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:13:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 24 Apr 1999 to 25 Apr 1999 (#1999-31) In-Reply-To: <199904260400.AAA15251@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <199904260400.AAA15251@listserv.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >The Roman gardener, who may have had a dozen hives, had to kill one to >harvest honey. Which one would he kill? Of course he'd kill the one that >stung his kids every time they walked by. That's a breeding and culling >program that promotes gentle bees. In skep beekeeping in England during the last century, the bees that were killed to gather a harvest, were the heaviest ones.with the most stores, and the lightest that probably wouldnt winter well. Why should the Romans kill off a vicious colony when it may not have much stores? -- Tom Speight ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:37:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BOGANSRJ@APCI.COM Subject: Brood Chamber Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Again, In going through may colonies this spring I found a lot of frames, in the brood chamber, that were full of honey . I have been pulling the frames and replacing them with drawn comb. My problem is I have a few boxes filled with this honey. The winter was mild and the bees did not consume their stores. I will use some in nucs and to feed other colonies but I still have a good amount left over. I do not want to extract these. This honey was on during mite treatment. In the past you could scratch open the cells and put it on the bottom of a strong colony that would move it up to the supers and "recycle" it. I don't think I can do that now, although I know that bees move honey all around the hive and any honey left in the brood chamber may be taken into the supers anyway. I have had hives like this in the past but not as many as this year. Some had a complete hive body full and the bees were all down below. We had a good fall flow which happened while I was treating for mites. If I just keep it the way it is it could be used throughout the season, but the wax moth will wreck havoc before that could happen. I can't freeze it either. I would like to save some of this for the winter but I can't think how. If I seal them up with PDB it would contaminate the honey. This year I will try timing my treatment in a few colonies to catch some fall flow and then use honey from other treated colonies for winter feed. I am also converting from two full hive bodies, as a brood chamber, to one hive body and one medium. Management practices will continue to change. Like George Imirie's tells us, my father didn't have to do it this way. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Ron Bogansky Kutztown, PA USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:05:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Excess honey in frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ron, I envy you having empty frames that you can put into colonies; I never have enough! I have a few thoughts concerning the brood nest honey you have in frames: - While it has been reported, I do not think it is well understood that the Apistan formulation of fluvalinate will not be absorbed into honey. It has been deliberately made this way. In fact, when Apistan was approved for use in England (earlier this year) the label does not require that supers be removed when treating! (DANGER...other formulations of fluvalinate will readily be absorbed into honey!) - It is really easy to protect honey in frames from wax moth by using Para-Moth(tm). You can get from Betterbee, 800-632-3379. - IF brood has never been raised in the combs in question, wax moth damage will be minor, if any. The wax moth larvae thrive on the cocoons from the bee larvae if they don't have these, they will hatch but not mature as they will not have enough protein. Hope this helps. Got any full depth drawn frames you want to sell? Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:44:11 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: The window God Subject: smoking them bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit someone posted a line or two about using tobbaco smoke to knock off mites in order to test mite population in the hive could someone explain to a bee-ginner if this is true and/or effective ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:04:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bobbi and David Organization: Longmeadow Farm Subject: Now what did I do wrong? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, This is my second year at and I have a small problem. I have installed 4 packages 2 weeks ago and everything seemed to be ok until today. I went to feed them and hive 1 & 3 are empty while hives 2 & 4 are buzzin right along. They are spaced about 30" apart, so I don't think that had anything to do with it. Any ideas? Thanks, Dave in NH ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:50:06 EDT Reply-To: Pollinator@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Now what did I do wrong? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/28/99 6:38:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ddouble@MEDIAONE.NET writes: > This is my second year at and I have a small problem. I have installed 4 > packages 2 weeks ago and everything seemed to be ok until today. I went to > feed them and hive 1 & 3 are empty while hives 2 & 4 are buzzin right > along. They are spaced about 30" apart, so I don't think that had anything > to do with it. Any ideas? You didn't do anything wrong; the bees just didn't read the instructions. If they stayed two weeks, they should have stayed for keeps (so the manuals say). The bees may have absconded, in which case there probably will be brood in the frames. Or the queens may have failed, in which case they won't have brood, or only drone brood in the frames. In this case the colony actually died out, though some of the workers may have drifted to your good hives. Another thought comes to mind -- if they are that close, and all are in a straight line and painted white, like some neat-type people do, the lost hives may have drifted workers to the others, until the hive could no longer sustain itself. Don't line up beehives in rows, and don't paint them all the same color -- unless you spread them out, so they have clear landmarks to orient to. Remember bees can see colors, and it helps them orient. If I place them on a long stand, I face every other one in the opposite direction. Most of them actually are four to a pallet, so two face front and two face back. I try to never have two the same color adjacent. We need more info. Did you install them on foundation? We presume you were feeding them? Did they draw comb? Did they have brood? Healthy brood? Give us all the observations you can, or find an experienced beekeeper to do a post mortem...... Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:47:10 EDT Reply-To: Pollinator@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Goin to expand from 50+ to 350+ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/28/99 12:01:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BozardCE@DOT.STATE.SC.US writes: > David Green, you seem to > be pretty smart fella, you got to bee, you're from S.C.. What is your method > ? by the way david, i sat in your pollination course last summer at the > greatest school in the universe, you know CLEMSON ! Clemson, awhile back, enrolled a football player that was really good, but he couldn't quite handle the academics. With an IQ of 78, he was flunking out of school. Finally the coach gave up. "Son, I've arranged a favor for you, for Clemson, and for Carolina, because I've gotten you transferred to the University of South Carolina. I'm sorry to see you go; you're a great football player; but now you are also raising the average IQ at both schools." Thanks for the kind words, Mick. Your check is in the mail. Ummmmmm.......wanna buy some bees? Okay, seriously now...... It's easy to raise bees in coastal South Carolina. The spring pollens here are the best in the world. The trick is to find equipment for them -- and by that I mainly mean good comb. You can start with foundation, if you wish, but it'll slow you down a lot. Find a beekeeper who's on his last legs (there's lots of them), and is willing to sell equipment cheap (not so many, but there are some). Make sure they aren't plastered with foulbrood. Buy all the brood comb you can get, in the boxes, if possible. You can make covers, bottom boards cheap and fast from plywood. Or, if you are really going to get big, get the pattern and the clips and make pallets of four, instead of bottoms. Starting about the last week of March, and ending about the end of April, make splits. You can raise cells, or, as I've done more and more, use the cells the bees make. You can also let them raise cells, if you just make sure they have eggs. But you'll lose some valuable time you could save if you can give them ready-made cells. Don't raise queens from junk stock, only the best. Don't plan on making honey; you are making bees, and you can't really do both well. Feed the daylights out of your splits, then move them to somewhere that will give them a flow -- cotton in the upper coastal plain (if you're sure they will spray the way they are supposed to), sparkleberry in the sandhills, sourwood in the mountains. Get them inland, or somewhere farther north. You wanna do watermelon pollination? Charge enough for it, the bees would be better off in other places. Still the little benefit they get from melons is better than nothing, which is what they get if they are not on watermelons. Everything is done on the coast by the end of June, and the bees will decline, unless you find a better place for them. They are apt to get poisoned, to boot. It's a great place to start bees, a so-so place to keep them. Another possibility: make nucs and sell them to the northeast. There's always a shortage of bees up there. And they make more on honey and pollination, so they can afford to buy bees. Wait a minute here!...didn't I just tell all my trade secrets to the world? Not so smart!.......>>>>Don't click that Send button.......Oops....... Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:01:13 EDT Reply-To: GImasterBK@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Now what did I do wrong? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Too close. Same color hives. In a straight line. But most important, did they have a gallon of 1:1 sugar syrup and never allow it to run out. Even dummies respond to free food. Suggest you read the April Pink Pages which can be found on the URL: http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ George Imirie