Article 11640 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathwor ks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!205.139.56.103!news.pe.net!ns From: amschelp@pe.net (Peter Amschel) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: VAROA TREATEMENT Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 03:21:14 GMT Organization: PE.net - Internet access from the Press-Enterprise Company Lines: 28 Message-ID: <6fsbo2$ed7$1@magnolia.pe.net> References: <351C79F7.37AD9F05@starpoint.net> <1998032816252801.LAA15165@ladder01.n ews.aol.com> <351FF63E.E9B98955@ne.mediaone.net> <6fq1lu$9a8$2@lasierra.pe.net> <35 210E3B.6BF4084B@ne.mediaone.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: hem02ppp85.pe.net X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11640 In articl >> >> >What would indicate that a top bar >> >hive would be more effective in varroa control?? >> > >> The big difference is in the ten sheets of foundation wax in the >> Langstroth frames. In the TBH, the bees start out in a conical mass just like in >> a wild swarm. In the Langstroth hive...there is no way they can all hang >> together in a group because... in the Langstroth frame the >> bees are all separated off from one another right from the start by >> these foundation sheets so that it is hard for them to police one another >> for mites. >That's only true when bees are first installed into a top bar hive. Once >the comb is drawn and the brood is being reared, honey stored etc. the >top bar hive's bee space is identical to a Langstroth hive (or any other >hive which makes use of 4 sided frames and foundation). It takes the whole season for the bees in the top bar hive to draw down comb so that the bee spaces get anywhere near as cramped as the Langstroth bee spaces are. Langstroths have cramped little bee spaces right from the beginning. Even at the end of the season in the TBH the bees have room to fly around in the bottom of the hive because there is still lots of space between the bottom of the combs and the bottom of the TBH. There is never any space for the bees to fly inside a Langstroth hive. One time I saw a bee suddenly swoop down on and kill a pissant. I wonder if the bee would have even tried to kill the pissant if the bee had to walk up to it instead of swooping down on it. Article 11641 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com! news.bbnplanet.com!worldnet.att.net!newsadm From: "Pete A. Wolcott" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Beeswax Lip Balm Date: 1 Apr 1998 04:08:17 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 24 Message-ID: <6fsejh$c61@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> References: <6fomeg$2ao$1@heliodor.xara.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.65.21.118 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1162 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11641 Alison, Try this: 4 parts beeswax 4 parts caster oil 6 parts almond oil 2 parts anhydrous lanolin Use a double boiler over electric heat. (flammable) Use more oil if to thick. Use some flavoring if you like. My granddaughter liked strawberry. Good luck Pete Ian Lawson wrote in article <6fomeg$2ao$1@heliodor.xara.net>... > Please, does anyone have a recipe for Lip Balm/Lip Moisturiser, using > Beeswax and/or Honey? > > Thanks, > > Alison Lawson. > > > Article 11642 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!news-peer-west .sprintlink.net!newsfeed.wli.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ne ws-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!netnews.com!newsfeed.concentric.n et!winternet.com!not-for-mail From: Elroy Rogers Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: VAROA TREATEMENT Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 00:09:54 -0600 Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc Lines: 32 Message-ID: <3521DA2E.9EDEBBF2@starpoint.net> References: <6ehrtg$gld$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6ffb0d$qeg2@athserv.otenet.gr> <01bd 5952$12414660$16218ed1@default> <6fos5d$etm$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <01bd5c2a$12785620 $83038ed1@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.5.48 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11642 George Stewart wrote: > The Studies which were documented used hives from the same area with 3 to 5 > different control groups. > > control group 1-no treatment > control group 2-apistan > control group 3-apistan & oils > control group 4-oils > control group 5-formic acid > > All of the tests confirmed that control group 2 was the only group that > showed any significant mite reduction. If these test were done indescriminately then I would think there should be no difference between group 2 and group 3. I would like to bring to everyones attention that there are already test done on mineral oil check out this site, http://www.internode.net/honeybee/oil/default.htm . It has also been mentioned that mineral oil was known to work on v-mites over 20 years ago, and guess who knew about it, the Apistan people. There is no way to keep mineral oil out of everyones hands, they had to come up with a lethal chemical that reqiures regulations. Start to wean yourselves from the chemicals that may cause cancer in humans by trying mineral oil on just 1 of your colonies. > Elroy Article 11643 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com! news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!203.97.37.6!clear.net.nz!ihug.co.nz!new s.tig.com.au!not-for-mail From: Victor Kay Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Bee Hives for Sale, Sydney Australia Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 15:29:42 -0800 Organization: The Internet Group Ltd Lines: 8 Message-ID: <3522CDE6.12D7@tig.com.au> Reply-To: samovar@tig.com.au NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-846.tig.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11643 I have three hives, brimming with bees and honey that sadly must go. The little guys make great honey. They are lovely creatures and I have promised to find a good home for them, coupled with a dirt cheap price (so as not to put their new owner in a bad mood). How much? AUD$100 each hive. How can you refuse? Please call Walter on 02 9649 6338 and mention that you're keen to buy our baby bees. Article 11644 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.wli.net!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail From: Barry Birkey Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: More anonymous postings to our fair newsgroup Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 07:31:12 +0100 Organization: BIRKEY.COM Lines: 19 Message-ID: <3521DF2C.3137@Birkey.com> References: <6fot54$ulu$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <199803310220.EAA00811@base.xs4all.nl> <6fqkof$15j$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <35219481.89A09D40@valley.net> Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 18967@206.68.164.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11644 Bill Greenrose wrote: > discovery in italy on same, i wish to point out the not-so-subtle irony of > associating the term nazi with the name finkelstein. It's precisely this kind of twisted and childish writing by mr. or mrs. "anonymous" that lets us all know this persons true color. It's quiet obvious now why they remain anonymous. If you we were able to reply to anonymous via private email, we wouldn't be wasting all this space in the newsgroup which is another indicator of someone who needs to protect themself from their own actions. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA Barry@Birkey.com http://www.birkey.com Article 11645 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Midnite" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <1998033123331300.SAA14374@ladder01.news.aol.com> Subject: Re: Where Can I get Midnight Bees? Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:03:55 -0500 Lines: 19 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.232.50.34 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.232.50.34 Message-ID: <3522491b.0@newsfeed1.cybertours.com> Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!144.212.95.13.MISMATCH!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!208.136.69.33!newsfeed1.cybertours.com!208.232.50.34 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11645 Greetings! midnites can be obtained from York Bee:there is a complete listing of bee suppliers at my beelinks page. -- Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http:www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee CarlB fish wrote in message <1998033123331300.SAA14374@ladder01.news.aol.com>... >The other day I saw some discussions on the midnight strain of honeybee.Good or >bad... I was wondering if anyone knows where I might find a reputable source >for this strain??!!.....remember when Sears and Roebuck used to carry these !? > Article 11646 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Midnite" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <3521D1D0.C7D@kingston.net> Subject: Re: essential oils Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:06:25 -0500 Lines: 28 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.232.50.34 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.232.50.34 Message-ID: <352249b4.0@newsfeed1.cybertours.com> Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!208.136.69.33!newsfeed1.cybertours.com!208.232.50.34 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11646 Greetings! I have just added Dr. Pedro Rodriquez's articles about mineral oil treatments at my home page:http:www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee -- Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 beeman@kingston.net wrote in message <3521D1D0.C7D@kingston.net>... >There has been alot of discussion about Varroa mite treatment. >Specifically the concern about tolerance that appears to be occuring >with Apistan. I have also read alot about essential oil treatment >delivered by grease patty and syrup. The essential oils seem to be >gravitating towards the mint family. What would happen if you planted >mint around the vacinity of the hives? Would the bees get any benefit >of varroa protection from the mint in the nectar? Even if it was not >enough by its self, wouldn't combining the two be beneficial? I have a >good size mint patch growing outside my garden. The stuff comes up >every where so its definitely not hard to grow. My bees where in it for >a long time. I wasn't really paying attention at the time as to exactly >how long the mint bloomed. I will this year. I don't think it is >realistic to have enough mint to affect the flavour of the honey. Does >anyone know for sure what it is about the mint oils that kills the >mites? Looking forward to answers and opinions. Article 11647 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Midnite" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <3521D1D0.C7D@kingston.net> <352249b4.0@newsfeed1.cybertours.com> Subject: Re: essential oils/correction Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:10:45 -0500 Lines: 38 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.232.50.34 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.232.50.34 Message-ID: <35224ab7.0@newsfeed1.cybertours.com> Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!192.26.210.166.MISMATCH!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.internetmci.com!208.136.69.33!newsfeed1.cybertours.com!208.232.50.34 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11647 correction: home page located at: http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee -- Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Midnite wrote in message <352249b4.0@newsfeed1.cybertours.com>... >Greetings! >I have just added Dr. Pedro Rodriquez's articles about mineral oil >treatments at my home page:http:www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee > > >-- >Holly-B Apiary >P.O. Box 26 >Wells,Maine 04090-0026 > >beeman@kingston.net wrote in message <3521D1D0.C7D@kingston.net>... >>There has been alot of discussion about Varroa mite treatment. >>Specifically the concern about tolerance that appears to be occuring >>with Apistan. I have also read alot about essential oil treatment >>delivered by grease patty and syrup. The essential oils seem to be >>gravitating towards the mint family. What would happen if you planted >>mint around the vacinity of the hives? Would the bees get any benefit >>of varroa protection from the mint in the nectar? Even if it was not >>enough by its self, wouldn't combining the two be beneficial? I have a >>good size mint patch growing outside my garden. The stuff comes up >>every where so its definitely not hard to grow. My bees where in it for >>a long time. I wasn't really paying attention at the time as to exactly >>how long the mint bloomed. I will this year. I don't think it is >>realistic to have enough mint to affect the flavour of the honey. Does >>anyone know for sure what it is about the mint oils that kills the >>mites? Looking forward to answers and opinions. > > Article 11648 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Midnite" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <1998033123331300.SAA14374@ladder01.news.aol.com> <3522491b.0@newsfeed1.cybertours.com> Subject: Re: Where Can I get Midnight Bees?/correction Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:12:09 -0500 Lines: 30 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.232.50.34 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.232.50.34 Message-ID: <35224b09.0@newsfeed1.cybertours.com> Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!208.136.69.33!newsfeed1.cybertours.com!208.232.50.34 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11648 oh beepoop! my web page is located at:http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee -- Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Midnite wrote in message <3522491b.0@newsfeed1.cybertours.com>... >Greetings! >midnites can be obtained from York Bee:there is a complete listing of bee >suppliers at my beelinks page. >-- >Holly-B Apiary >P.O. Box 26 >Wells,Maine 04090-0026 >http:www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee >CarlB fish wrote in message ><1998033123331300.SAA14374@ladder01.news.aol.com>... >>The other day I saw some discussions on the midnight strain of >honeybee.Good or >>bad... I was wondering if anyone knows where I might find a reputable >source >>for this strain??!!.....remember when Sears and Roebuck used to carry these >!? >> > > Article 11649 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!nntprelay.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: beetools@aol.com (Beetools) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: essential oils Date: 1 Apr 1998 16:35:36 GMT Lines: 21 Message-ID: <1998040116353600.LAA12159@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <3521D1D0.C7D@kingston.net> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11649 My home apiary is surrounded by 900+ acres of mint. In addition to a mint honey crop, they winter over with mint honey. For several years, I had a very low rate of varroa in Spring (I test with Apistan and screened sticky boards). FOr the previous four years, my winter survival rate was 98-100%. Was it my Fall treatments and managment, hygenic bees, or mint honey? Who knows without very controlled longterm testing. This year, I've been way too busy with the bee supply business and missed the Spring treatments on this group of hives - survival rate today - 50%. Dr. Mark Winston has been doing extensive test on "essential oils" and his work has shown that some of the "oils" do have an abiltiy to kill varroa, but the diffierent between an effective dose as a miticide and one that kills bees is very very small. These oils are not the "save", "organic"materials that everyone seems to think they are. Sit on the tailgate of a truck that has been used to transport mint oil and you will know in detail what a pain in the butt these oils can be. They make formic acid look like a highball drink. And, the active components (which are the miticides) in these oils vary from batch to batch, season to season. Ron Bennett, Luckiamute Bee Article 11650 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news.vt.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!vtaix.cc.vt.edu!adamf From: adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu (Adam Finkelstein) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: More anonymous postings to our fair newsgroup Date: 1 Apr 1998 19:31:33 GMT Organization: Virginia Tech Lines: 33 Message-ID: <6fu4ml$4vu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> References: <3521DF2C.3137@Birkey.com> <6ftumo$9i@basement.replay.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vtaix.cc.vt.edu Summary: Nice Newsgroups line, no? Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11650 In article <6ftumo$9i@basement.replay.com>, Anonymous wrote: >In article <3521DF2C.3137@Birkey.com> Barry wrote: >: Bill Greenrose wrote: > >: > discovery in italy on same, i wish to point out the not-so-subtle irony of >: > associating the term nazi with the name finkelstein. > >Please move this thread to another newsgroup Ack....man I love this net.drama. I'll state AGAIN that it's anti-social in Usenet to post anonymously, even though a poster's perogitive. Since this beekeeping newsgroup was created for the benefit of beekeepers, One's anonymity as an anonymous poster lessens the benefit of others: Yo Mr. troll, you certainly do not put where you are from in your anonymous postings, whereas in your subtly thought-out rebuttal to my point, you so lamely state that someone with a "netcom.com" address is as anonymous geographically as you--well those posters usually have a line in their post explaining where they are from. This newsgroup was created to be un-moderated so that issues such as this could be hashed-out. Since this IS getting way off topic, I'll drop the follow-ups to your lame postings on net.politics, since you cannot be reached via e-mail, and hopefully wait for you to post something regarding beekeeping that will show your biological and agricultural expertise. Knock yourself out d00d. In anticipation, I'll not killfile you. Adam -- Adam Finkelstein adamf@vt.edu http://sunsite.unc.edu/bees/adamf Article 11651 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: snewport@pavilion.co.uk (Steve Newport) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Bee Venom Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 01:29:22 GMT Organization: Pavilion Internet's Customer USENET Server. Lines: 2 Message-ID: <352045b5.4919709@news.pavilion.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup1-24.pavilion.co.uk X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!usenet.logical.net!news.IAEhv.nl!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed2.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!news.freedom2surf.net!peernews.ftech.net!pavilion!not-for-mail Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11651 Can anyone suggest good literature concerning the collection and use of Bee Venom ? Article 11652 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!usenet.logical.net!news.dal.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!worldnet.att.net!newsadm From: WebSearch@worldnet.att.net Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Moldy Frames Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:53:37 -0500 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 6 Message-ID: <6fu6ap$ang@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.68.38.146 X-Newsreader: Anawave Gravity v2.00 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11652 I just opened my hives for the first time since winter. I have been whacked by the dreaded Varroa mite. The brood chamber is filled with honey but some of the frames are moldy! I made room because they were honey bound and medicated with apistan. I kept these moldy combs seperate. Will the bees clean these up as the hive gets stronger? Thanks for the info.......BirdDawg Article 11653 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!205.252.116.205.MISMATCH!howland.erols.net!wnfeed!204.127.130.5!worldnet.att.net!newsadm From: "George Styer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Moldy Frames Date: 1 Apr 1998 20:29:22 GMT Organization: Productive Solutions Lines: 28 Message-ID: <6fu832$cqf@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> References: <6fu6ap$ang@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.64.98.63 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1157 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11653 IMLE, yes. I bore a 1.5 inch hole in the front and back of each shallow super right above the handle and cover it with screen fabric. I leave a super on during the winter. The ventilation keeps the moisture from building up in the winter and helps the bees deal with 100+F days in the summer. Since doing this I only get mold during the winter between the inner and outer covers. Of course this might not be the best thing for your climate. BTW, I don't know what part of the word you are from but in warmer climates watch out for the dreaded wax moth in distressed colonies. If you get an infestation you won't need to worry about the moldy frames! -- Geo "Honey is sweet, but the bee stings" gstyLer@worldnet.att.net Get the "L" out of there to reply via e-mail WebSearch@worldnet.att.net wrote in article <6fu6ap$ang@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>... > I just opened my hives for the first time since winter. I have been > whacked by the dreaded Varroa mite. The brood chamber is filled with > honey but some of the frames are moldy! I made room because they were > honey bound and medicated with apistan. I kept these moldy combs > seperate. Will the bees clean these up as the hive gets stronger? > Thanks for the info.......BirdDawg > Article 11654 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Midnite" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <3513FD3F.1C0@cdsnet.net> <1998033123255801.SAA15740@ladder03.news.aol.com> Subject: Re: The wood preservative question Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:06:28 -0500 Lines: 29 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.161.30.240 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.161.30.240 Message-ID: <3522ac28.0@newsfeed1.cybertours.com> Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!144.212.95.13.MISMATCH!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!208.136.69.33!newsfeed1.cybertours.com!208.161.30.240 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11654 Greetings! Is it not true that you should paint your hives a dark color and besides why paint hives at all?..the wood needs to breathe . Is it not comprehensible to realize that the pores of the wood helps to rid the extra moisture than having the bees expel this moisture through the entrance? Try to use wood that has a vertical grain wood..helps in moisture release. Why have my bees do this extra work..I want them busy collecting pollen/nectar. Comments? Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee CarlB fish wrote in message <1998033123255801.SAA15740@ladder03.news.aol.com>... >>If the JASCO is no good, can anyone suggest brand names, >>so I can shop for this with a bit more confidence? > >I like to use plain 'ol exterior latex paint ( any brand) ,most commercial >beekeepers I know have been using white exterior grade latex paint. Its >relatively non-toxic to both bees and beekeeper. For my Home /hobby hives I >like the natural appearance of wood. Ive been using a new water base exterior >varnish from Varathane under the brand name of ' diamond finish' . It looks >great and dries in two hours !...thats if you like the natural look. Article 11655 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.visi.net!newsfeed.usit.net!news.usit.net!not-for-mail From: rghallNoCrap@usit.net (Richard Hall) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Swarming Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 01:04:11 GMT Organization: United States Internet, Inc. Lines: 9 Message-ID: <3522e2b5.2444505@news.usit.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.241.221.80 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11655 I live in east Tennessee and the weather has been great. We have alot of things blooming and the bees are working like crazy. The first of Feb I fed each colony a gallon of Fumidil in a 2 to 1 sugar/water solution. Apparently that got the queen to laying good because now aI have a deep and 2 shallow supers full of bees at each colony. I usually don't put on supers until mid April but yesterday I put on med super of foundation on each colony. Today it was warm so I looked at the brood frames in the btm deep box and found several queen cells and some were capped. Any suggestions on swarm prevention? Article 11656 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: redshrike@aol.com (Red shrike) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Extactor plans? Date: 2 Apr 1998 02:50:51 GMT Lines: 10 Message-ID: <1998040202505100.VAA23913@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11656 Hi, I am a very small hobbiest (number of hives, not stature) and would like to build my own extactor. Does anyone have plans they might share with me or advice how to go about making one? Thanks in advance for your responses. Thanks, Gabe Please Reply to: Redshrike@aol.com Article 11657 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!usenet.logical.net!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail From: "corbee" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: re: queen storage Date: 2 Apr 1998 03:08:56 GMT Organization: All USENET -- http://www.Supernews.com Lines: 5 Sender: @209.144.6.51 Message-ID: <01bd5de5$817a1ec0$330690d1@corbin> NNTP-Posting-Host: 2749@209.144.6.51 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1162 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11657 I have read numerous references, books, journals, etc., on banking queens for both long and short term. My experience on banking queens is limited. I would like information on personal experiences and actual techniques on both types of storage for the hobby beekeeper that have been successful. Article 11658 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Midnite" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <3522e2b5.2444505@news.usit.net> Subject: Re: Swarming Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 00:01:10 -0500 Lines: 17 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.232.50.77 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.232.50.77 Message-ID: <35231b69.0@newsfeed1.cybertours.com> Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!usenet.logical.net!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!208.136.69.33!newsfeed1.cybertours.com!208.232.50.77 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11658 -- Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ Richard Hall wrote in message <3522e2b5.2444505@news.usit.net>... >some were capped. Any suggestions on swarm prevention? sure..go here http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Article 11659 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!nntp-xfer.ncsu.edu!gatech!141.211.144.13.MISMATCH!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!nntp.upenn.edu!dolphin.upenn.edu!djt From: djt@dolphin.upenn.edu (David J Trickett) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: VAROA TREATEMENT Date: 30 Mar 1998 19:35:09 GMT Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 43 Message-ID: <6fos5d$etm$1@netnews.upenn.edu> References: <6ehrtg$gld$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6ffb0d$qeg2@athserv.otenet.gr> <01bd5952$12414660$16218ed1@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: dolphin.upenn.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2-upenn1.3] Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11659 George Stewart (geostew@inreach.com) wrote: : > Can anyone advise a novice on how to go about an : > easy, non-toxic prevenative treatement of 20 colonies, as a precautionary : > measure against the Varoa mite? : By non-toxic I assume you mean not a pesticide such as apistan. There is : nothing out there that has been proven to work except Apistan. At the : Oregon Washington Idaho BC convention there was a lot of talk about : alternative treatments. All the studies introduce showed that essential : oils & other treatments do not help control mites in any way. Sorry, but it : looks like the only thing we can do is pray for the FDA to move on Formic : Acid, as mites are becoming resistant to Apistan. : Have Fun : Cevin Stewart -- Hello Cevin, I'll have to look up these studies since if you are correct, the mint oil treatments I've been using for the past two years haven't been working, and I have to attribute my colonies' survival and good health (they were boiling off the frames yesterday!) to benign mites or resistant bees... (The only problem I've had of late is some succession trouble (in the Fall which I attribute to the mint oil) and some AFB.) Given comments by Jack Griffes and others, which have considerably advanced my understanding of what's involved in breeding or (accidently ending-up with) varroa-resistant bees, I have a diffcult time believing the mint oils aren't working... Even the low-level infestations in 8 nukes I bought last year have cleared up - and all I've used is peppermint oil via entrance feeders and grease patties. In some of these colonies, there were no varroa mites, period, at least none visible from checking the drones and drone brood (late summer testing, last season). The others might have one or two mites in 40 or 50 uncapped drone cells... And they're all looking pretty good right now. Also, how do these studies explain the WVU-tests and results. Dave T. Article 11660 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!nntp-xfer.ncsu.edu!gatech!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!24.128.1.125!chnws03.mediaone.net!24.128.1.107!chnws04.ne.mediaone.net!not-for-mail From: Kathy Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: VAROA TREATEMENT Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:45:02 -0500 Organization: Red Maple Farm Lines: 72 Message-ID: <351FF63E.E9B98955@ne.mediaone.net> References: <351C79F7.37AD9F05@starpoint.net> <1998032816252801.LAA15165@ladder01.news.aol.com> Reply-To: beesbest@ne.mediaone.net NNTP-Posting-Host: beesbest.ne.mediaone.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; U) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11660 HDsearcher, There is NO substantiation to the claims that top bar hives have any effect on varroa mites, tracheal mites, foul brood diseases, or any other disease, parasite, or beekeeper management challenges. Why would they?? Let's think about this.. Bee space is an accepted fact. No matter where or in what space honeybees chose or are given for a home, their combs are consistently spaced 1/4"- 3/8" apart. Modern hives (including top bar hives) were designed to take advantage of this natural tendency. All the combs in a top bar hive (hopefully, but not always) suspend from each top bar downward into a box. The combs drawn within the frame of a Langstroth or any other hive type that makes use of four sided frames also suspend downward into a box. What would indicate that a top bar hive would be more effective in varroa control?? As for FGMO (food grade mineral oil), there has been a long and drawn out discussion on Bee-L about this substance. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez's has described his experiences, other folks described their experiences, all discussed it's safety, it's effectiveness, & how various folks administered it. Many wondered whether or not any of this anecdotal info was useful because of all the different ways FGMO was administered at different intervals at different times of the year, with few mite counts being taken before or after treatment, no control hives being used, etc. Also, a number of beekeepers (including us) on Bee-L offered up a number of their colonies to a controlled nation-wide scientific study of FGMO which (most) folks wanted Dr. Rodriguez to establish the protocol for and oversee. He declined. He claims he will be publishing his results. To summarize, there seem to be many folks who have used FGMO for a year or two and have had good wintering rates which they attribute to having used FGMO. Does this mean anything? It could. It also couldn't. I personally hope that it does work, though I confess both to being skeptical and to planning to try FGMO on a half dozen or so hives this year. Having had mild winters for the last two years in New England, we've seen 5% losses last year and 8% losses (so far) this year. Three winters ago we lost 40% of our colonies. Would we have had the same result with FGMO? Our management practices haven't changed.. unless it's that I haven't been having my morning coffee out by the home apiary since we moved the chicken manure pile closer. That's it!!! The best way for varroa control is to never expose your bees to the smell of coffee and to fumigate the hives on all warm days with eau de merde de poulet! :^) It's good that you're always searching for knowledge. The more beekeepers who manage their bees based on the facts of bee biology and behaviour, the more bees survive, and the less we have to hear about the newest evangelist's amazing bee cure-all, mite killer, do-hicky, thang. Kathy thinking i could really have something with this chicken shit theory... HDsearcher wrote: > Sounds to me that we should all throw everything away, go to top bar > hives and > treat with nothing but mineral oil. Please, somewhere out there has > to be > someone with scientific data to back up these ideas, or to totally > dispute > these claims. By all means post the data that you described. I may > not be a > believer (yet) but I'm not so stupid as to listen to your ideas. > Thanks for > sharing. > > A man in search of knowledge is always looking for something(me) Article 11661 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!206.61.0.4!okra.negia.net!not-for-mail From: "petty" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: essential oils Date: 2 Apr 1998 02:47:44 GMT Organization: NorthEast Georgia Internet Access Inc. Lines: 13 Message-ID: <01bd5de2$1b382ba0$d2003dce@pettyben> References: <3521D1D0.C7D@kingston.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp11.negia.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11661 don't really know that much about it, but I do know that some centuries-old literature suggests rubbing the inside of the hive with what i believe is Lemon Balm, a member of the mint family. the various herbs that the ancient writers considered 'health giving' to the bees are lemon balm and other mints, oregano and thyme. beeman@kingston.net wrote in article <3521D1D0.C7D@kingston.net>... > There has been alot of discussion about Varroa mite treatment. > Specifically the concern about tolerance that appears to be occuring > with Apistan. I have also read alot about essential oil treatment > delivered by grease patty and syrup. The essential oils seem to be > gravitating towards the mint family. What would happen if you planted > mint around the vacinity of the hives? ......................... Article 11662 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: Wally@wallyworld.com (Wally) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: More anonymous postings to our fair newsgroup Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 01:59:02 GMT Organization: What Organization? We ain't organized. Message-ID: <35229bf3.5659443@news1.newscene.com> References: <6fot54$ulu$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <199803310220.EAA00811@base.xs4all.nl> <6fqva3$eme$1@netnews.upenn.edu> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 39 Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.gte.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!novia!newscene!strip_path Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11662 How many of you get junk email or "spam"? I imagine if you have been posting on this newsgroup for any length of time using your email address that you are on some list or lists. I hate the stuff myself. There is software out there that downloads all the postings from just such newsgroups as this and strips out the email addresses. These people put your and mine and everybody else's address on a CD and sell it to the junk mailers. Or use it themselves. I post anonymously to protect myself from the junk mailers. As long as the subject relates to beekeeping what does it matter where it came from? Or even who it is from. The anonymous post is a defense against the junk mailers. How many of you have kids who read the mail inviting you to porn sites or offering to sell you the secrets to attracting women? Hey, we just don't need that stuff. The unwanted ads for that crap that makes it to this group is bad enough. If someone wants a response they can put in their address or get a throw away account at hotmail or juno or similar. When the junk mail gets too frequent, just stop using the free account and it will go away. If you want to write to me about this, drop me a line at bees_knees@hotmail.com. On 31 Mar 1998 14:41:07 GMT, djt@dolphin.upenn.edu (David J Trickett) wrote: >Well, at least we have a sense of humor about the whole thing! > >Just out of curiousity (and I really don't have a problem with anonymous postings as long as the >content is in sync with the newsgroup charter) what IS your purpose of posting anonymously? One >of the advantages of posting with a name (even a fictitious one) is that one gets a sense of the >personality and perspective of the poster(s) over the years - as well as their credibility. So >without really voicing a vote on the anon issue or your option to do so, I'm wondering why you >are doing so... Anyway, I'm getting a sense of some aspects of your personality... sounds like >a beekeeper to me... ;) > >Dave T. Article 11663 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!interpath.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!newsxfer.visi.net!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!howland.erols.net!winter.news.erols.com!not-for-mail From: "bhrh" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Looking for answers..... Date: 2 Apr 1998 16:45:44 GMT Organization: Erol's Internet Services Lines: 12 Message-ID: <01bd5e57$40501e00$b146accf@wbarry.erols.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207-172-70-177.s177.tnt11.brd.erols.com X-Trace: winter.news.erols.com 891535544 10745 207.172.70.177 (2 Apr 1998 16:45:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@erols.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1162 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11663 I lost all of my bees this winter and from what Im hearing alot of keeper in my area also had large losses... I live in northern virginia and we had relitivly mild winter. I really have no idea why we lost all of our bees Does anyone have any idea as to why or had the same misfourtune please let me know .. e-mail me at bhrh@erols.com thanks barry Article 11664 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Midnite" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <01bd5e57$40501e00$b146accf@wbarry.erols.com> Subject: Re: Looking for answers..... Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:39:23 -0500 Lines: 24 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.232.50.172 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.232.50.172 Message-ID: <3523cd1b.0@newsfeed1.cybertours.com> Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!208.136.69.33!newsfeed1.cybertours.com!208.232.50.172 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11664 -- Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee bhrh wrote in message <01bd5e57$40501e00$b146accf@wbarry.erols.com>... >Does anyone have any idea as to why or had the same misfourtune please let >me know .. sure..AFB,EFB,sacbrood,mites,condensation,dead queen,no food stores,mice,nosema,chaulbrood,bee paralysis,waxmoth,etc... have you read any books on bee diseaes?..if not,try this link: http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/html/bee_diseases.html or http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee sit back and enjoy the reading! Herb >e-mail me at bhrh@erols.com > > >thanks barry Article 11665 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news.voicenet.com!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: chucklaser@aol.com (ChuckLaser) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: More anonymous postings to our fair newsgroup Date: 2 Apr 1998 18:06:59 GMT Lines: 31 Message-ID: <1998040218065901.NAA29462@ladder03.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com References: <6fu4ml$4vu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11665 In article <6fu4ml$4vu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>, adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu (Adam Finkelstein) writes: > >This newsgroup was created to be un-moderated so that issues such as this >could be hashed-out. Since this IS getting way off topic, I'll drop the >follow-ups to your lame postings on net.politics, since you cannot be >reached via e-mail, and hopefully wait for you to post something >regarding beekeeping that will show your biological and agricultural >expertise. Knock yourself out d00d. In anticipation, I'll not killfile >you. > >Adam >-- >Adam Finkelstein >adamf@vt.edu >http://sunsite.unc.edu/bees/adamf > > Well said ! Name calling is about as childish as it gets. I don't come here for that. I live in central ILLINOIS, and the good winter left me wondering how much honey my bees had left. Durring the warm days of early spring, they seem to have eaten most of it. Now I have to feed them constantly as hardly any blossoms have appeared. I have heard of hives starving under these circumstances, in only a few days. Is this happening elswhere after the mild winter ? chuck Article 11666 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!worldnet.att.net!newsadm From: "George Styer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: More anonymous postings to our fair newsgroup Date: 2 Apr 1998 18:56:00 GMT Organization: Productive Solutions Lines: 23 Message-ID: <6g0n00$icb@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> References: <6fot54$ulu$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <199803310220.EAA00811@base.xs4all.nl> <6fqva3$eme$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <35229bf3.5659443@news1.newscene.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.64.98.123 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1157 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11666 Wally wrote in article <35229bf3.5659443@news1.newscene.com>... > There is software out there that downloads all the postings from just > such newsgroups as this and strips out the email addresses. These > people put your and mine and everybody else's address on a CD and sell > it to the junk mailers. Or use it themselves. I post anonymously to > protect myself from the junk mailers. As long as the subject relates > to beekeeping what does it matter where it came from? Or even who it > is from. The anonymous post is a defense against the junk mailers. You don't have to post anonymously to conceal your identity from the spam bots. As you can see I use my real name (as most do on this group) but the e-mail address below will bounce back if stripped by a spammer. But a human reading the sig line can figure out how to e-mail me. -- Geo "Honey is sweet, but the bee stings" gstyLer@worldnet.att.net Get the "L" out of there to reply via e-mail Article 11667 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!usenet.logical.net!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.he.net!katana!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3523E20C.24433C7C@mis.net> From: michael Reply-To: mfsnky@mis.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: More anonymous postings to our fair newsgroup References: <6fu4ml$4vu$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <1998040218065901.NAA29462@ladder03.news.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 4 Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 19:08:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.28.32.105 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 11:08:01 PST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11667 Yes , a friend of mine said his bees starved because they were more active during a mild winter and he did not check on them soon enough . Article 11668 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!uwm.edu!chicago-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!netnews.com!ais.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!server-a.cs.interbusiness.it!not-for-mail From: "webmaster" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping,sci.agriculture.fruit,sci.agriculture.poultry,sci.agriculture.ratites,soc.couples.intercultural,soc.culture.afghanistan,soc.culture.african,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.albanian,soc.culture.algeria,soc.cult Subject: Holidays in Cilento (south Italy) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:32:21 +0200 Organization: Centro Servizi Interbusiness Lines: 10 Message-ID: <6fu5i0$1la$1@server-a.cs.interbusiness.it> NNTP-Posting-Host: eth00.cilento.peoples.it X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11668 sci.agriculture.fruit:1598 sci.agriculture.poultry:4927 sci.agriculture.ratites:1204 soc.couples.intercultural:60768 soc.culture.afghanistan:33997 soc.culture.african:71227 soc.culture.african.american:383701 soc.culture.albanian:12119 soc.culture.algeria:21021 We would be very happy if you visit our new web site : Holidays in Cilento http://www.peoples.it/cilento_vacanze Kind regards Cilento Net - Agropoli (Italy) Article 11669 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!208.25.48.5!news.inreach.com!not-for-mail From: "George Stewart" Subject: Re: VAROA TREATEMENT Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <351C79F7.37AD9F05@starpoint.net> <1998032816252801.LAA15165@ladder01.news.aol.com> <351FF63E.E9B98955@ne.mediaone.net> <6fq1lu$9a8$2@lasierra.pe.net> <352157C0.1B81E705@starpoint.net> Message-ID: <01bd5e7e$bc60e980$4e218ed1@default> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Lines: 11 Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 21:31:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209-142-33-78.stk.inreach.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 13:31:09 PST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11669 I have one question. How many hives do you people who use top bar hives run? We run 1200-1300, depending on the time of year. Do you do it as a business or as a hobby? Some of us are in beekeeping to make a living. I'd like to meet the commercial beekeeper who uses top bar hives & extracts honey every year, or can transport his hives without dropping comb down. 3yrs is a waste of time to wait for a hive to develop. Article 11670 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!news.bconnex.net!news.supernet.net!news.cyberport.com!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: VAROA TREATEMENT Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:00:16 -0700 Organization: CyberPort Station Lines: 43 Message-ID: <6g126p$4h9$1@macaw.cyberport.com> References: <351C79F7.37AD9F05@starpoint.net> <1998032816252801.LAA15165@ladder01.news.aol.com> <351FF63E.E9B98955@ne.mediaone.net> <6fq1lu$9a8$2@lasierra.pe.net> <35210E3B.6BF4084B@ne.mediaone.net> <6fsbo2$ed7$1@magnolia.pe.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host24.citizens-bank-nm.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11670 Peter Amschel wrote in message <6fsbo2$ed7$1@magnolia.pe.net>... >>That's only true when bees are first installed into a top bar hive. Once >>the comb is drawn and the brood is being reared, honey stored etc. the >>top bar hive's bee space is identical to a Langstroth hive (or any other >>hive which makes use of 4 sided frames and foundation). > >It takes the whole season for the bees in the top bar hive to draw down comb >so that the bee spaces get anywhere near as cramped as the Hello Peter, Here in New Mexico we have a number of dedicated topbar beekeepers ranging from a one hive backyarders to one full time professional beekeeper. Top bars are very useful and provide a good alternative to "traditional langstroth" hives for several reasons. They can be much less expensive to build ($10 for a topbar built with brand new lumber to $0 for one built out of discarded pallets). They provide much more wax if part of your operation is geared towards candlemaking and other products using wax. You are right that they often do not require the support infrastructure (extractors, queen excluders, supers, etc) but...They DO NOT address the Varoa problem. Our full time topbar beekeeper is very dedicated to finding a non Apistan solution. He has been trying a variety of oils, smokes, etc, coupled with selective breeding ...anything but Apistan but just came through another winter with very large losses. He is a long time, experienced, professional (in the sense he makes his living from beekeeping), very dedicated beekeeper so I know that his winter losses (which were much larger than many apistan using, langstroth beekeepers) are not poor beekeeping practices but are directly related to his dedication to trying to breed resistance rather than depending on a chemical. In New Mexico, topbar hives are not the magic bullet for varoa. They are a great hive for a number of reasons and your recommedation of them for those reasons is a good one but your statements that they are the cure for Varoa is just not borne out by the results out here. If you can point out specific beekeepers who have been able to use top bar hives to control Varoa for more than two seasons please do so. Thanks Patrick M. O'Hearn Bears Choice Honey Bloomfield, New Mexico patrick@cyberport.com Article 11671 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!205.252.116.205.MISMATCH!howland.erols.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!208.25.48.5!news.inreach.com!not-for-mail From: "George Stewart" Subject: Mite Treatment Debate Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Message-ID: <01bd5e81$976c6f20$4e218ed1@default> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Lines: 15 Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 21:51:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209-142-33-78.stk.inreach.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 13:51:35 PST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11671 As soon as I find & post the studies that will be it for me. I'm through arguing my stand on these issues. Top bar hive users do what you want, oil users do what you want. In a commercial operation top bar hives are not worth the hassle, neither is wasting time on a mite treatment (oils) that has been proven to be less effective than apistan. As a commercial beekeeper I don't have time to argue points, or treat with some cure-in-a-bottle. When your hives die due to these alternative treatments you will then realize what is going on. Have fun, Cevin Stewart Article 11672 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!nntprelay.mathworks.com!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!winternet.com!not-for-mail From: Elroy Rogers Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Mite Treatment Debate Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 19:25:37 -0600 Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc Lines: 97 Message-ID: <35243A8B.D8129A1D@starpoint.net> References: <01bd5e81$976c6f20$4e218ed1@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: antares-22.starpoint.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11672 George Stewart wrote: > As soon as I find & post the studies that will be it for me. I'm through > arguing my stand on these issues. Top bar hive users do what you want, oil > users do what you want. In a commercial operation top bar hives are not > worth the hassle, neither is wasting time on a mite treatment (oils) that > has been proven to be less effective than apistan. As a commercial > beekeeper I don't have time to argue points, or treat with some > cure-in-a-bottle. When your hives die due to these alternative treatments > you will then realize what is going on. Well George how about the magical cure on a strip. Almost everyday I have been reading post to this news group and the bee-l list of beekeepers losing their bees. It seems not one of them have been treating with Mineral oil, they have all been treating with apistan. Beekeepers that have been using mineral oil have had the normal 10 to 20% loss, most have lost none over winter. In everyone of my post I asked all not to believe me, just buy a pint of mineral oil treat 1 colony do an either roll before and after. It's only going to cost you $2.00 for the mineral oil. Do the same with your apistan colonies and see if it really stands up. Apistan must be in the colony for 45 days like wise mineral oil doesn't work immediately, nothing is a silver bullet. I am very confident that if you try it you will be sold on it, you will never look to apistan again. If you treat all summer with mineral oil I know you can totally wipe out the mites. Now if every one in your area does it and with no feral colonies left there is a good chance we could wipe the mite right out of the USA. If your a commercial beekeeper I take my hat of to you, this is where I want to be, I realized this is what I should have been doing for the last 25 years. I have 40 colonies now and have enough equipment to increase to 120 colonies this spring. I am hoping my bees come back from california in exellent condition, they were sent there with another beekeepers bees. Also I am looking forward to finding another beekeeper that is fed up with the mites I need a lot more equipment, as I am heading for 1000 colonies within 2 to 3 years. So far I have found three in my area and bought their equipment for 10 cents on the dollar. Last spring in april is when I bought my first 25 nucs, I had bees for a lot of years in the 70s though. When I bought my bees I was seeing a lot of crawlers in the grass, that is bees with no wings, no hair, undersized bees. I didn't think the nucs were going to make it until fall. I had never seen this before, there were no mites in the 70s. By mid june there must have been 30 to 50 of these crawlers all over in the grass in front of each nuc, nucs were still in 1 single brood chamber. I started looking on the web for answers, after hearing about Dr. rodrigeuz treatment with mineral oil I thought I would give it a try, as I was going to lose the bees anyway. I pulled out the Apistan strips around june 15th and started treating with mineral oil. By the 1st of july I got the second brood chamber on most, of the nucs. I didn't expect to get much honey but I was hopeful. By the 20th of july almost all crawlers have disappeared and I had the 1st honey super on. Some of the colonies did so good I had to put medium supers on them twice a week. Well after that I was sold on mineral oil. Honey flow was completely over by the 20th of august. I had 10 colonies so strong that the bees could not fit in the two brood boxes. I went back twice at night and there were still 3 to 4 pounds of bees on the outside after 3 days. I guess the frost probably got most of them. No one will ever convince me that mineral oil doesn't work. What will you do when the v-mites on your bees build up resistance to apistan? It is only a matter of time before it happens, maybe the chemical company will come up with another cancer causing agent for you to use. What are the queen breeders going to do after all the drones have become steral due to exposure to apistan, yes bee journals are now talking about this. Maybe formic acid will be your choice, what nasty stuff to give to bees that produce such a great product. If you have at least 1000 colonies then you will most likely spend $6000 on apistan spring and fall, send me the $6000 I will come and treat your bees with mineral oil. Then when you get 25 to 50% more honey you can split that with me. Well that cure in the bottle is starting to look pretty good. Just take your worst colony and give it a try, stack the deck against the mineral oil. But make sure you do an ether roll after 30 days. If you are waitng for the scientific community to reseach this out forget it there is no incentive for them to do this. Once there is a cure you can buy over the counter for a couple of dollars why would you need them? After all the NHB is going to get another 1 cent per pound of your money and mine to fund more research for a cure for the v-mite. If you have the cure now why would we need it? It should dry up all future funds, whoops thats their money and jobs for researh. By the way I was told by a researcher from the University of Montana that they Knew mineral oil would kill mites back in the sixties, I wonder why it was kept a secret. If you want to see that post I think I still have it in my trash folder. Think about it. Elroy Article 11673 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net!news3.mco.bellsouth.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <35244DD5.33B1485E@bellsouth.net> From: Bill Daniels X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Which magazine, if only one? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 6 Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 02:47:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: host-207-53-42-233.mem.bellsouth.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 21:47:36 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11673 Which of the national beekeeping magazines do you recommend for a beginning beekeeper? There seem to be a couple of "large" ones. If I only subscribe to one, which should it be? Thanks, Bill Article 11674 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com!not-for-mail From: sgt.tibbs@sympatico.ca Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Nucs Vs Packaged Bees Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 22:36:58 -0500 Organization: Bell Solutions Lines: 16 Message-ID: <35245959.BCE61892@sympatico.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.183.75 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news21.bellglobal.com 891575170 14076 (None) 206.172.183.75 X-Complaints-To: usenet@news20.bellglobal.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11674 This is my first year beekeeping, and I have two choices in staring out. I have aquired hives with the comb already draw out. But for bees, I can go with N.Z. Bees, that would arrive last week of April or first week of May. The second is to wait for a local breeder to make Nukes, which would be ready by the 1st week of June, but more likely middle to end of June. I am eager to get established, but I do not want to be too eager and make the wrong decision. I am looking for imput on this subject. If you can, reply to this forum, or email sgt.tibbs@sympatico.ca. Thank You Allen Banks Article 11675 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!205.252.116.205.MISMATCH!howland.erols.net!newspump.sol.net!ix.netcom.com!news From: "dbolton" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Nucs Vs Packaged Bees Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 21:14:11 -0700 Organization: Netcom Lines: 25 Message-ID: <6g1noa$4m0@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> References: <35245959.BCE61892@sympatico.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: sfe-nm3-12.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Apr 02 8:15:06 PM PST 1998 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11675 From the experience I've had, I prefer to go with package bee's in my own equipment. You learn so much more about them by starting them on your own in the beginning. You take less chances with deseased equipment that way. All my packages have always out produced the nuc's I've bought. Packaged bees draw out comb much faster and are a good way to get new comb for honey supers. This has been my experience anyway. Danny sgt.tibbs@sympatico.ca wrote in message <35245959.BCE61892@sympatico.ca>... >This is my first year beekeeping, and I have two choices in staring >out. I have aquired hives with the comb already draw out. But for >bees, I can go with N.Z. Bees, that would arrive last week of April or >first week of May. The second is to wait for a local breeder to make >Nukes, which would be ready by the 1st week of June, but more likely >middle to end of June. I am eager to get established, but I do not want > >to be too eager and make the wrong decision. I am looking for imput on >this subject. If you can, reply to this forum, or email >sgt.tibbs@sympatico.ca. > >Thank You Allen Banks > > > > Article 11676 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!usenet.logical.net!nntprelay.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!worldnet.att.net!newsadm From: "George Styer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Mite Treatment Debate Date: 3 Apr 1998 04:40:56 GMT Organization: Productive Solutions Lines: 45 Message-ID: <6g1p8o$g17@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> References: <01bd5e81$976c6f20$4e218ed1@default> <35243A8B.D8129A1D@starpoint.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.64.34.204 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1157 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11676 Elroy Rogers wrote in article <35243A8B.D8129A1D@starpoint.net>... > No one will ever convince me that mineral oil doesn't work. What will you do > when the v-mites on your bees build up resistance to apistan? It is only a > matter of time before it happens, maybe the chemical company will come up with > another cancer causing agent for you to use. This whole treatment thing has been a great thread and alot of opinions have been thrown out, sometimes put forward as "fact". You infer that fluvalinate is a known carcinogenic. Please site the study so I can educate myself. I don't recall reading "Warning - this product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer" when I last bought Apistan strips and it's getting pretty difficult to find anything that California hasn't been labeled as a carcinogenic. Hey, I am just a hobbiest but cancer scares me. And yes, I treat with strips but am not ready to sign up for AA (Apistan Users Annon) because I don't believe (read think) that anything has been as rigorously tested and found to be as effective as fluvalinate, and I am referring to long-term controlled testing. Does mineral oil show promise? Perhaps, but it will take more than anecdotal evidence to alter current practice. Heck, for all we know dusting the tops of the frames with powdered milk might work but the beekeeper whose livelihood depends on live colonies is not going to risk their livelihood on a lark. Hmm....didn't you say your bees are in California? Anyone want to try the powdered milk thing?;-) -- Geo "Honey is sweet, but the bee stings" gstyLer@worldnet.att.net Get the "L" out of there to reply via e-mail Article 11677 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!eecs-usenet-02.mit.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!208.25.48.5!news.inreach.com!not-for-mail From: "George Stewart" Subject: Re: VAROA TREATEMENT Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <6ehrtg$gld$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6ffb0d$qeg2@athserv.otenet.gr> <01bd5952$12414660$16218ed1@default> <6fos5d$etm$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <01bd5c2a$12785620$83038ed1@default> <3521707D.D9DC88CA@mis.net> Message-ID: <01bd5e80$0d1ef780$4e218ed1@default> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Lines: 9 Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 21:40:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209-142-33-78.stk.inreach.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 13:40:35 PST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11677 No, group 3 used apistan one treatment (spring) & oils in the fall. This was to test the alternating treatment idea. Mites showed again in spring, after the oil treatment. Then they tested oils for a spring med & apistan for a fall med to see if time of year had any effect. No positive results from oils. Article 11678 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!europa.clark.net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.internetmci.com!24.128.1.125!chnws03.mediaone.net!24.128.1.107!chnws04.ne.mediaone.net!not-for-mail From: Kathy Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Which magazine, if only one? Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 01:32:16 -0500 Organization: Red Maple Farm Lines: 21 Message-ID: <35248270.B300407D@ne.mediaone.net> References: <35244DD5.33B1485E@bellsouth.net> Reply-To: beesbest@ne.mediaone.net NNTP-Posting-Host: beesbest.ne.mediaone.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; U) To: Bill Daniels X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11678 Bill, It really depends on your reading/learning style. Both of the big bee mags (American Bee Journal & Bee Culture) are good for different reasons. ABJ is more "scientific" (though less so than in the past) and BC (i still want to call it Gleanings!) is more "accessible". You're more apt to find the details of a study reported in ABJ whereas in BC the same study may be reported in much broader strokes. So, the real question is how do you like your information? Truth is the subscription prices are fairly low (through a beekeeping association), why not try both for a year and see? or borrow copies of each from other beekeepers to see which you prefer? Unless great changes have been made in the last 4-5 years to the Speedy Bee newspaper/newsletter, it used to be the same news re-reported a month later than the other guys. Happy reading! Kathy Article 11680 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!usenet.logical.net!Gamma.RU!srcc!demos!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.wli.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.alt.net!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias.net!mail2news Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:27:27 +0200 Message-ID: <199804031027.MAA00350@base.xs4all.nl> From: Anonymous Comments: Please report problems with this automated remailing service to . The message sender's identity is unknown, unlogged, and not replyable. Subject: Re: More anonymous postings to our fair newsgroup Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <35229bf3.5659443@news1.newscene.com> Mail-To-News-Contact: postmaster@nym.alias.net Organization: mail2news@nym.alias.net Lines: 106 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11680 You make some good points. However, from Herr Finkelstein's entirely ridiculous responses so far, it is obvious that the main reason that he requests that no one post anonymously to this group is that HERR FINKELSTEIN DOES NOT LIKE anonymous postings. Perhaps he is compiling his own list, for his own purposes -- who knows? To your very patient explanation, I might, were I so inclined, add many other even more compelling reasons. But I don't think I will. It would be off-topic, and persons sharing Herr Finkelstein's prejudices would no doubt find mere reasons insufficient anyway. In answer to David Tricketts observation below, about the usefulness of a "handle", I would say the following: I would have you judge my ideas on their own merits, not on the basis of who I am. If my geographical location is pertinent, it will be mentioned, as will a contact email address if that is pertinent. I don't expect it to be. If you consider my questions or ideas intrigueing, or something you can help with, post an answer. If not, don't. I'll do the same. Wally@wallyworld.com (Wally) wrote: > >How many of you get junk email or "spam"? I imagine if you have been >posting on this newsgroup for any length of time using your email >address that you are on some list or lists. I hate the stuff myself. > >There is software out there that downloads all the postings from just >such newsgroups as this and strips out the email addresses. These >people put your and mine and everybody else's address on a CD and sell >it to the junk mailers. Or use it themselves. I post anonymously to >protect myself from the junk mailers. As long as the subject relates >to beekeeping what does it matter where it came from? Or even who it >is from. The anonymous post is a defense against the junk mailers. > >How many of you have kids who read the mail inviting you to porn sites >or offering to sell you the secrets to attracting women? Hey, we just >don't need that stuff. The unwanted ads for that crap that makes it >to this group is bad enough. > >If someone wants a response they can put in their address or get a >throw away account at hotmail or juno or similar. When the junk mail >gets too frequent, just stop using the free account and it will go >away. If you want to write to me about this, drop me a line at >bees_knees@hotmail.com. > > > On 31 Mar 1998 14:41:07 GMT, djt@dolphin.upenn.edu (David J Trickett) >wrote: > >>Well, at least we have a sense of humor about the whole thing! >> >>Just out of curiousity (and I really don't have a problem with anonymous >postings as long as the >>content is in sync with the newsgroup charter) what IS your purpose of >posting anonymously? One >>of the advantages of posting with a name (even a fictitious one) is that one >gets a sense of the >>personality and perspective of the poster(s) over the years - as well as >their credibility. So >>without really voicing a vote on the anon issue or your option to do so, I'm >wondering why you >>are doing so... Anyway, I'm getting a sense of some aspects of your >personality... sounds like >>a beekeeper to me... ;) >> >>Dave T. > > > > > > > > Article 11681 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news.vt.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!vtaix.cc.vt.edu!adamf From: adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu (Adam Finkelstein) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Pointers to Usenet resources for our fair newsgroup Date: 3 Apr 1998 11:27:53 GMT Organization: Virginia Tech Lines: 14 Message-ID: <6g2h3p$ol3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: vtaix.cc.vt.edu Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11681 Hello. Thanks for all the corroborative e-mail. Check out these URLs if you feel like taking a break from bees and want to gain some intelligence concerning the workings of Usenet. http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~tskirvin/home/nana/ http://digital.net/~gandalf/trollfaq.html Adam -- Adam Finkelstein adamf@vt.edu http://sunsite.unc.edu/bees/adamf Article 11682 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!usenet.logical.net!nntprelay.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail From: Larry Williard Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: 9 or 10 frames Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 10:59:00 -0600 Organization: All USENET -- http://www.Supernews.com Lines: 8 Message-ID: <35251554.FF3E81F@bigfoot.com> Reply-To: circuit@bigfoot.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 7943@208.24.176.50 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11682 After not having bees for the last 25 years I decided to put together a hive again. I ordered my supplies and thought I'd try some frame seperators. After I got them I discovered they come only in 8 or 9 frames, so my question is, what are the disatvantages or advantages of using 9 frames instead of 10 in the brood chamber? Thanks Larry Article 11683 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: More anonymous postings to our fair newsgroup Followup-To: alt.flame.jews Date: 1 Apr 1998 19:49:12 +0200 Organization: Replay Associates, L.L.P. Message-ID: <6ftumo$9i@basement.replay.com> References: <3521DF2C.3137@Birkey.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: basement.replay.com X-XS4ALL-Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 19:49:16 CEST X-001: Replay may or may not approve of the content of this posting X-002: Report misuse of this automated service to X-URL: http://www.replay.com/remailer/ Lines: 7 Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!nntp-xfer.ncsu.edu!gatech!news1.mid-ga.com!nntp.mid-ga.com!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!xs4all!basement.replay.com!not-for-mail Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11683 In article <3521DF2C.3137@Birkey.com> Barry wrote: : Bill Greenrose wrote: : > discovery in italy on same, i wish to point out the not-so-subtle irony of : > associating the term nazi with the name finkelstein. Please move this thread to another newsgroup Article 11684 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!nntp-xfer.ncsu.edu!gatech!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!rain.fr!wanadoo.fr!not-for-mail From: "RATIA Gilles" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Beekeeping stats and main addresses for each country Date: 2 Apr 1998 08:45:03 GMT Organization: APISERVICES Lines: 68 Message-ID: <01bd5e13$394ed860$5fdafcc1@toshiba> NNTP-Posting-Host: peri3-95.abo.wanadoo.fr X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11684 In the Virtual Beekeeping Gallery, you can find statistics and addresses for 24 countries with information such as: number of inhabitants size in square kilometers number of beekeepers number of beehives average production honey / beehive / year average honey prices wholesale / retail in US $ tons of exported honey tons of imported honey addresses of national associations addresses of relative government ministries miscellaneous: research centers, laboratories, annual congresses, WEB, etc. Please check, correct and complete them at the URLs below. For the other countries (about 190 not yet documented), if you represent a government department or national association, please fill in the form at http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/pays_form.htm . Thank you in advance for your collaboration. http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/algeria.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/argentina.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/canada.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/croatia.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/cuba.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/czech.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/denmark.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/finland.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/france.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/hungary.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/israel.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/italia.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/japan.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/jordan.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/mexico.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/norway.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/quebec.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/slovakia.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/spain.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/sweden.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/uruguay.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/usa.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/vietnam.htm http://www.beekeeping.org/countries/zealand.htm (\ ______ {((O8< _______________________ (/ Gilles RATIA International Beekeeping Consultant Webmaster of the "World's First Virtual Beekeeping Gallery" APISERVICES Beekeeping Development "Le Terrier" F-24420 Coulaures - FRANCE Phone: +33 (0)5 53 05 91 13 Mobile: +33 (0)6 07 68 49 39 Fax: +33 (0)5 53 04 44 57 Email: gilles.ratia@apiservices.com Web: http://www.beekeeping.org and http://www.apiservices.com and http://www.apiculture.com _________________________________________ Article 11685 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <35252AB6.2D50@zeus.dpnet.net> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:30:14 -0500 From: DEAN WARSING Reply-To: trustno1@zeus.dpnet.net Organization: Unknown Organization X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: midnite bees Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: dpnet_rs_tcrs36.dataplace.net Lines: 2 Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!usenet.logical.net!nntprelay.mathworks.com!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!digex!netnews.com!news.dpnet.net!dpnet_rs_tcrs36.dataplace.net Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11685 thinking about ordering some midnite bees does anyone have a track record with this bee.....thanks Article 11686 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "John F" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <35251554.FF3E81F@bigfoot.com> Subject: Re: 9 or 10 frames Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:52:11 +0100 Lines: 29 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: pm2-143.dial.nildram.co.uk Message-ID: <352539ac.0@mercury.nildram.co.uk> Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!peer.news.nildram.co.uk!mercury.nildram.co.uk!pm2-143.dial.nildram.co.uk Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11686 Larry Williard wrote in message <35251554.FF3E81F@bigfoot.com>... >After not having bees for the last 25 years I decided to put together a >hive again. I ordered my supplies and thought I'd try some frame >seperators. After I got them I discovered they come only in 8 or 9 >frames, so my question is, what are the disatvantages or advantages of >using 9 frames instead of 10 in the brood chamber? > Thanks > Larry > By not filling the hive, you can easily remove the first frame, without 'rolling' bees, against other frames, and the hive wall. You should try to avoid killing even one bee, as the others ,smell it, and attack you/defend the hive. Another reason, in supers, is that once the bees have started to draw comb, you can move the frames slightly further apart from each other, and the bees will continue to draw, until they have reahe dthe normal 'bee space'. In this way you get deeper cells, and less wax (overall), so there is hopefully, more honey, and less waste.............. It's as well to start with 10, or the bees may start their shennanigans in the empty space, but as the end frames are the last to (normally) be built on, you can remove one and space the others at any time...... John jaf@gemini.nildramnilspam.co.uk Article 11687 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!cu-dialup-1026.cit.cornell.edu!user From: jwg6@cornell.edu (JG in NY) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: 9 or 10 frames Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:16:42 -0400 Organization: lahdeeFreakindaah Lines: 21 Sender: jwg6@cornell.edu (Verified) Message-ID: References: <35251554.FF3E81F@bigfoot.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cu-dialup-1026.cit.cornell.edu Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11687 The 8/9 frame spacers are for honey supers, not brood chambers. They hold the honey-frames at an even spacing across the box, resulting in thicker combs that are easier to uncap. In brood chambers you do not want to create such wide spacing; also you need to be able to slide the frames laterally, for prying and removal. The use of 9 frames in a 10-frame brood chamber usu. entails only a scant spacing between adjacent end-bars, and the rest of the extra room being left at the side-walls of the box. The spacing with the separator-type spacers is too wide for brood rearing purposes. In article <35251554.FF3E81F@bigfoot.com>, circuit@bigfoot.com wrote: > After not having bees for the last 25 years I decided to put together a > hive again. I ordered my supplies and thought I'd try some frame > seperators. After I got them I discovered they come only in 8 or 9 > frames, so my question is, what are the disatvantages or advantages of > using 9 frames instead of 10 in the brood chamber? > Thanks > Larry Article 11688 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!usenet.logical.net!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!hub.org!news.thuntek.net!not-for-mail From: Phil Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Carpenter Bees Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 09:39:45 -0700 Organization: Disorganized Lines: 3 Message-ID: <352510D1.58A1@yahoo.com> Reply-To: goldpnr@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: abq-065.thuntek.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11688 Anyone know of any sources for carpenter bees? Thanks Phil Article 11689 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <35252464.4A79@zeus.dpnet.net> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:03:16 -0500 From: DEAN WARSING Reply-To: trustno1@zeus.dpnet.net Organization: Unknown Organization X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: need bees!!!!!!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: dpnet_rs_tcrs36.dataplace.net Lines: 3 Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!usenet.logical.net!nntprelay.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!news.dpnet.net!dpnet_rs_tcrs36.dataplace.net Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11689 discovered yesterday that w.t.kelley is out of packaged bees...does anyone know of a supplier that still has bees....i live in maryland so i would need a east coast suppier..... Article 11690 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Chip McCurdy" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: P-O Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:13:34 -0500 Lines: 16 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: pm3-1-user-33.cvl.hom.net X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pm3-1-user-33.cvl.hom.net Message-ID: <3525b43a.0@news1.mid-ga.com> Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!news1.mid-ga.com!pm3-1-user-33.cvl.hom.net Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11690 Does anybody know what happened to P-O's Page? Chip Ambrosia Apiaries Honey Co. 1304 Davis Avenue Perry, GA 31069-2704 (912) 987-1304 http://GEORGIAHONEY.com BeeMan@Georgia.com SEE OUR EXHIBIT AT THE GEORGIA NATIONAL FAIR IN PERRY, GEORGIA OCTOBER 9th - 18th 1997 http://www.gnfa.com Article 11691 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.nero.net!newsfeed.orst.edu!newshub.tc.umn.edu!ais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!not-for-mail From: "Ernest Scofield" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Which magazine, if only one? Date: 4 Apr 1998 10:02:36 GMT Organization: Sprynet News Service Lines: 22 Message-ID: <01bd5fb0$a742d620$1864afce@default> References: <35244DD5.33B1485E@bellsouth.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: hdn92-024.hil.compuserve.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11691 I would suggest Bee Culture, which I started reading 20 odd years ago. I have subscribed to both and still subscribe to it. -- E.L.Scofield Virginia Beach Honey Company Bill Daniels wrote in article <35244DD5.33B1485E@bellsouth.net>... > Which of the national beekeeping magazines do you recommend for a > beginning beekeeper? There seem to be a couple of "large" ones. If I > only subscribe to one, which should it be? > > Thanks, > > Bill > > Article 11692 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: barrycode@aol.com (BarryCode) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: need bees!!!!!!!!! Date: 4 Apr 1998 12:38:21 GMT Lines: 16 Message-ID: <1998040412382100.HAA28580@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <35252464.4A79@zeus.dpnet.net> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11692 >From: DEAN WARSING >Date: Fri, Apr 3, 1998 13:03 EST >Message-id: <35252464.4A79@zeus.dpnet.net> > >discovered yesterday that w.t.kelley is out of packaged bees...does >anyone know of a supplier that still has bees....i live in maryland so i >would need a east coast suppier..... > > > Try York Bee Company out of Jesup, Georgia. Their phone # is (912) 427-7311. I spoke with them last week and they still have plenty of packaged bees available. Barry Article 11693 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!205.254.160.3!hihat.mwci.net!not-for-mail From: "Chris Sauer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: 9 or 10 frames Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 06:13:48 -0600 Organization: MidWest Communications, Inc. Lines: 8 Message-ID: <6g4isl$m4v$1@hihat.mwci.net> References: <35251554.FF3E81F@bigfoot.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dial-237.dyersville.mwci.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11693 Larry, Don't use your frame separators with foundation; the bees will draw all kinds of bridge comb in the extra space. Wait until the foundation is fully drawn. I would only use the separators in my supers where they allow for more space for honey storage (i.e., deeper cells). Article 11694 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!205.252.116.205.MISMATCH!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: chucklaser@aol.com (ChuckLaser) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: More anonymous postings to our fair newsgroup Date: 4 Apr 1998 16:14:57 GMT Lines: 12 Message-ID: <1998040416145701.LAA24764@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com References: <3523E20C.24433C7C@mis.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11694 In article <3523E20C.24433C7C@mis.net>, michael writes: > >Yes , a friend of mine said his bees starved because they were more >active during a mild winter and he did not check on them soon enough . > > > I just notice the older bees are dying off some now. I don't think they are starving. I checked them and they looked beat up and old. Chuck Article 11695 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: steven.turner@amigabee.org.uk (Steven Turner) Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!144.212.95.13.MISMATCH!nntprelay.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.pcug.co.uk!amigabee!steven.turner Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Uk beenet website Message-ID: <891691764@amigabee.org.uk> Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 12:09:24 GMT Distribution: world Organization: Amigabee computer networking for beekeepers Lines: 19 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11695 The Beekeeping BBS (Beenet UK Host) web site has a new URL http://www.beeman.dircon.co.uk/ Information includes: Joining UK Beenet Bromley Branch of the Kent Beekeeping Association The Kentish Bee newsletters Links to my site appreciated from other bee pages. Regards Steve STEVEN TURNER G6LPF Beekeeper/gardener Sysop of Amigabee. http://www.beeman.dircon.co.uk/ Email: beeman@dircon.co.uk ... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!! Article 11696 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.concentric.net!winternet.com!not-for-mail From: Elroy Rogers Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Mite Treatment Debate Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 11:34:21 -0600 Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc Lines: 110 Message-ID: <35266F18.4F702954@starpoint.net> References: <01bd5e81$976c6f20$4e218ed1@default> <35243A8B.D8129A1D@starpoint.net> <$aRaQAAYfKJ1EwiX@denrosa.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.5.239 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11696 Murray McGregor wrote: > Dear Elroy, > > I am impressed by your obvious enthusiasm for the mineral oil treatment. > > I currently have no opinion, for or against, mineral oil as a treatment > and will prefer to wait for some proper scientific evidence of its > effectiveness. I can afford the luxury of doing so as I live in an area, > North-eastern Scotland, which is still apparently varroa free (but not > for much longer). > > You do make some claims for the treatment which intrigue me as to what > your basis for the conclusions are. I should like to know how long your > Apistan strips were in the hives for prior to your removal of them on > 15th June? When exactly did you buy the hives and how infested were they > at that time? If it were LATE in April then you only left the Apistan in > for a bare minimum period so it is not surprising that you were still > seeing crippled bees at the reported time. > > Judging from your description of when you found the colonies to have > built up, only two weeks after starting the oil treatment, makes the > attribution of this to mineral oil extremely dubious. This is well less > than a brood cycle so at the time you noted the hives recovering sharply > and building up the only bees hatching were those from the time of the > Apistan treatment, NOT those from the mineral oil period. By mid to late > July, when you describe getting your honey flow, most of the foragers > will have been from brood deposited under the Apistan regime. Obviously > the capped period, crucial for the varroa, is much shorter, but the > ability of the bees to look after the amount of brood needed to sustain > the dramatic turnaround described means that the process of recovery > probably started well before the oil went on. > > Provided your dates are anywhere near accurate, then to me the only > conclusion is that the Apistan saved some very sick colonies you had > bought, not the mineral oil. > ` Okay lets assume that you are right Apistan cured the bees of mites. With that said lets check how valid that statement is. I don't know the dates exactly because I had no intentions of sharing any info on mineral oil. I did not Know the treatment even existed until I saw it posted on this news group some time last june. Dr. Rodriguez is the founder of mineral oil as far as I know it, I had not tried mineral oil until I saw what he was saying on Bee-chat. Bill Greenrose toke part in this I know because I saw one of his replies, maybe he can remmember the correct date of this chat. It was just days later that I started with the mineral oil treatment. As for the dates when I put on the second brood chamber it was not exactly July 1st some where ealier and some were later, I do remmember for waiting for almost the 10th of july for some I even put newspaper between to be sure I would not chill them, so as to let the bees decide when ready for second box. I do remmember being very dissapointed, I had expected about 100 lbs of honey per colony. I had got about 35 lbs per colony, some produced no honey and some produced more than 100 lbs. A few of them were over my head I had to step on a honey super to see into to top. I did much better than the commercial beekeepers in this area they got 20 lbs per colony, I know because I asked them. By the way they use apistan they just laughed about the mineral oil. Now back to the apistan, if it was the cure for the mites on my bees and mineral oil had nothing to do with then it. Then it is the first time in the history of apistan that you did not have to treat in the fall and get a ten fold reduction of mite infestation. The 1 apistan strip that was placed in the center of each nuc was so good that it totally wiped all mite from them. It was so good that I didn't put any Apistan in in the fall, the Minnesota bee inspector tested my colonies in october and found only 1 mite from a sample of approximately 300 bees taken from 10 of the colonies. I bet every one on this list would like to find such good results from there apsitan. Now as posted earlier these bees came from a commercial beekeeper, his name is chuck. My bees were going to california with his for wintering, he wanted to be sure my bees were inspected before leaving the state. Mine were tested as lot 2 his were tested as lot 1, As mentioned in an earlier post he had infestations of 10 mites, same amount of bees but taken from a few more colonies. How do you explain that the bees I purchased from Chuck treated with the same apistan , he put the strip of apistan in the nucs, to be separated in the spring and then come back together in the fall and have totally different infestation levels? Mine had ten fold decrease and no apistan put in in the fall. Have you or any one on this news group seen this magic before. Now since I agreed with you mineral oil did not work please explain my good fortune. I did not mention that I puchased 6 queens from glen apiaries in claifornia, I split the strongest nucs I had memorial day. When I think back and how serious the v-mite infestation was I had no business splitting them. But now I had 6 more nucs and these splits had no strips of apistan in them, a week later I confessed to my wife it was a foolish thing to do. I had paid over $50. for these queens, not really alot of money but when my wife was totally against my bees I was in trouble for quite awhile. As I areed ealier in this post mineral oil had nothing to do with it, it must have been the fumes that lingered on the 3 frames of brood that were transfered to the new splits from the 1 apistan strip that was in the other nuc. What a streach, I am starting to feel like I could be President. Like I said in the ealier post take your weakest poorest colony that is most likely going to die out from mites, try mineral oil on it see what happens. Really stack the deck against mineral oil, as you can see from above I unintentionally did this. I also forgot to mention that 4 of these six queens produced the most honey. Now I challenge all on this news group to make up a nuc and place 1 strip of apistan in the center leave it in for 2 months, don,t treat with apistan in the fall. Lets see if it works, well no confidence in apistan either. So many conclude that mineral oil doesn't work, so lets try the only other possible solution. Now that I know how devastating the v-mite can be I know that 1 apistan strip used in the spring only could never work. As high as the infestation level was in june, my colonies should be all dead instead of pollinating cherries this week. What say yea now Elroy Article 11697 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!nntp-xfer.ncsu.edu!gatech!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!denrosa.demon.co.uk!murray From: Murray McGregor Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Mite Treatment Debate Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:11:52 +0100 Organization: Denrosa Ltd. Distribution: world Message-ID: <$aRaQAAYfKJ1EwiX@denrosa.demon.co.uk> References: <01bd5e81$976c6f20$4e218ed1@default> <35243A8B.D8129A1D@starpoint.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk [194.222.100.90] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Version 3.01 Lines: 74 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11697 Dear Elroy, I am impressed by your obvious enthusiasm for the mineral oil treatment. I currently have no opinion, for or against, mineral oil as a treatment and will prefer to wait for some proper scientific evidence of its effectiveness. I can afford the luxury of doing so as I live in an area, North-eastern Scotland, which is still apparently varroa free (but not for much longer). You do make some claims for the treatment which intrigue me as to what your basis for the conclusions are. I should like to know how long your Apistan strips were in the hives for prior to your removal of them on 15th June? When exactly did you buy the hives and how infested were they at that time? If it were LATE in April then you only left the Apistan in for a bare minimum period so it is not surprising that you were still seeing crippled bees at the reported time. Judging from your description of when you found the colonies to have built up, only two weeks after starting the oil treatment, makes the attribution of this to mineral oil extremely dubious. This is well less than a brood cycle so at the time you noted the hives recovering sharply and building up the only bees hatching were those from the time of the Apistan treatment, NOT those from the mineral oil period. By mid to late July, when you describe getting your honey flow, most of the foragers will have been from brood deposited under the Apistan regime. Obviously the capped period, crucial for the varroa, is much shorter, but the ability of the bees to look after the amount of brood needed to sustain the dramatic turnaround described means that the process of recovery probably started well before the oil went on. Provided your dates are anywhere near accurate, then to me the only conclusion is that the Apistan saved some very sick colonies you had bought, not the mineral oil. This is not to say that the mineral oil will not help you to maintain low levels of infestation, indeed much of the anecdotal evidence points towards that, and I feel that, once properly researched and refined, it will probably have a place in CONTROL of varroa. However, where you have very sick colonies nearing collapse, which from your description yours were, you will still need to adopt radical TREATMENTS to save them, moving on to more benign measures if you wish, after you have saved the colonies. >No one will ever convince me that mineral oil doesn't work. What will you do >when the v-mites on your bees build up resistance to apistan? It is only a >matter of time before it happens, maybe the chemical company will come up with >another cancer causing agent for you to use. What are the queen breeders going >to do after all the drones have become steral due to exposure to apistan, yes >bee journals are now talking about this. Maybe formic acid will be your >choice, what nasty stuff to give to bees that produce such a great product. Whilst agreeing with your conclusions about the noxious nature of formic acid, it is probable that several of these things will have a place in a programme of mixed treatments. And where do you get the information that fluvalinate is carcinogenic? I've never heard that (does not mean it isn't true) and as a synthetic pyrethroid, a very benign family of substances (insofar as you can call any pesticide benign!), I would be very surprised if it were true. Also, I have not read anyone trying to convince you that the oil doesn't work, just that they want to see more evidence of either the pure scientific kind or at the more practical levels folk such as Andy describe. Asking appropriate questions is healthy debate, which surely what this group is all about. I do, however wish you every success, and if your methods are successful you will be able to look forward to a long prosperous future. Kind regards, Murray -- Murray McGregor murray@denrosa.demon.co.uk Article 11698 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!denrosa.demon.co.uk!murray From: Murray McGregor Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Mite Treatment Debate Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 23:39:32 +0100 Organization: Denrosa Ltd. Distribution: world Message-ID: <67OLoDAkarJ1EwQd@denrosa.demon.co.uk> References: <01bd5e81$976c6f20$4e218ed1@default> <35243A8B.D8129A1D@starpoint.net> <$aRaQAAYfKJ1EwiX@denrosa.demon.co.uk> <35266F18.4F702954@starpoint.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: denrosa.demon.co.uk [194.222.100.90] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Version 3.01 Lines: 73 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11698 Dear Elroy, You appear to have misinterpreted what I wrote. >Now since I agreed with you mineral oil did not >work >please explain my good fortune. I did not say mineral oil did not work. I did say that from the timings given that it is almost certain that the Apistan saved your colonies. The interesting part is the difference in the results experienced by you and your friend in the fall. It would appear, albeit based on a very small sample, that your colonies ended the season with a considerably lower mite count than your friends. What is not clear is whether 'Chuck' treated with anything at all after his spring treatment. You are putting the knife into Apistan, but it is not clear whether the true comparison is between 1. Colonies treated with Apistan or Mineral Oil, OR 2. Colonies treated with Mineral Oil or nothing at all. So what happened after June 15th in both units is important. Did 'Chuck' treat with anything after spring Apistan? If it is the latter, AND the colonies were of a similar scale and infestation after Apistan treatment removal in June, then mineral oil may well be responsible for you keeping levels of infestation low, and you may have produced an important piece of evidence for using mineral oil as a protective measure. Going back to my own post I did say that mineral oil could have a role in CONTROL of varroa, rather than radical treatment. That statement is a very long way from saying that it doesn't work. I just don't know! There is no need to feel beleaguered by criticism, as all we are doing is asking pertinent questions. You have made assertions about mineral oil working and Apistan not working, but the evidence you have presented actually confuses the issue. There is no need to be offended at questions about dates, infestation levels etc. They are absolutely CRUCIAL in arriving at the correct conclusions, and, without them being accurately recorded throughout a treatment regime, which must include control colonies, conclusions must be regarded as unsafe. Your period on which you are making your assumptions about the treatment is only 2 months long. We know your mite counts at the end of the season, but at least as important are your mite counts before starting the Apistan, and on the day you changed over to the oil treatment. These are not given. Do you have them? They are VERY important when deciding what saved your colonies. For YOUR OWN long term prosperity and success it is vital that you do not arrive at a hasty and possibly erroneous conclusion. You must understand that a good number of us are wholly dependant on bees and their efforts for a living, and some of us are responsible for the livelihoods of employees and their families. We cannot risk all on a treatment which is, despite your faith in your evidence, unproven. Your suggestion that you try a few colonies is eminently sensible. Finally, you made a statement in an earlier post linking fluvalinate and cancer. Myself and another concerned member queried it but you have not stated where you got that evidence. We have a history of cancer in my family and we are naturally very concerned about any such links. You must let us know what this evidence is as it could have a crucial bearing on our future wellbeing. If it is true then I and others need to know, if not then you should not initiate or perpetuate scare stories. Kind regards, Murray -- Murray McGregor Article 11699 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!ix.netcom.com!news From: Simoun Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Mite Treatment Debate Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 15:55:55 -0700 Organization: Netcom Lines: 16 Message-ID: <3526BA7B.6FF89BA2@ix.netcom.com> References: <01bd5e81$976c6f20$4e218ed1@default> <35243A8B.D8129A1D@starpoint.net> <$aRaQAAYfKJ1EwiX@denrosa.demon.co.uk> <35266F18.4F702954@starpoint.net> Reply-To: swheaton@ix.netcom.com NNTP-Posting-Host: phn-az5-11.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Apr 04 2:59:15 PM PST 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11699 QUESTION: Obviously I have missed much of this thread. The "Mineral Oil" treatment, is that pure mineral oil asis with no essential oil? or is that mineral oil with essential oils? Thanks in advance for the response. I obviously missed the original post on how to do the mineral oil treatment (assuming it is not an essential oil binder). Elroy Rogers wrote: > Murray McGregor wrote: > > > Dear Elroy, > > > > I am impressed by your obvious enthusiasm for the mineral oil treatment. > > > > Article 11700 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!enews.sgi.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed1.uswest.net!newsfeed2.uswest.net!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!news.uunet.ca!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail From: Niederkorns Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Pollen Substitute Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 19:03:05 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 4 Message-ID: <3526CA39.47FE@cnwl.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttye0b.cnwl.igs.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11700 I was unable to buy any pollen or substitute from the local bee supplier. While this is a lesson to collect some pollen during the summer, does anyone know of a good recipe for the protein without pollen??? Article 11701 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!205.252.116.205.MISMATCH!howland.erols.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!167.142.225.6!newsrelay.netins.net!news.netins.net!not-for-mail From: Drox Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: VAROA TREATEMENT Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 00:23:18 -0600 Organization: Malfunction Junction Lines: 22 Message-ID: <35272356.EB5D508@hotmail.com> References: <6ehrtg$gld$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6ffb0d$qeg2@athserv.otenet.gr> <01bd5952$12414660$16218ed1@default> <6fos5d$etm$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <01bd5c2a$12785620$83038ed1@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: desm-28-42.dialup.netins.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11701 George Stewart wrote: > The Studies which were documented used hives from the same area with 3 > to 5 > different control groups. > > control group 1-no treatment > control group 2-apistan > control group 3-apistan & oils > control group 4-oils > control group 5-formic acid > > All of the tests confirmed that control group 2 was the only group > that > showed any significant mite reduction. Are you sure? If true, that would seem to indicate that oils are not only useless in controlling mites, but actually inhibit the mite-controlling action of apistan. -Drox Article 11702 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <35279044.1097@zeus.dpnet.net> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 10:08:04 -0400 From: dean warsing Reply-To: trustno1@zeus.dpnet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: thanks barry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: dpnet_rs_tcrs34.dataplace.net Lines: 2 Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!news.dpnet.net!dpnet_rs_tcrs34.dataplace.net Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11702 thanks barry ordered 2 paks friday thanks for the info... Article 11703 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <3527AE52.B3328736@access.mountain.net> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 12:16:18 -0400 From: Herschel Shamblin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Varroa Treatment with Mineral Oil and Essential Oils Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.77.9.105 Lines: 14 Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.nero.net!news.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.mountain.net!198.77.9.105 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11703 I purchased my first hive in May of 97 after a 20+ year absence from beekeeping.The main reason, for purchasing them, no bees in the area I live all had died from mites.I fed my new hive with a board feeder ingredients were 1 quart sugar-1 quart water and 50 drops wintergreen oil.In the fall of 97 I learned of Dr.Rodriguez treatments with food grade mineral oil. I began this treatment and continue it today. I have yet to use any form of chemical including Apistan. I had two inspections from state bee inspector in 97 , June and October no mites were present.I did not miss the fall honey flow either [Goldenrod]like all the other beekeepers in my area that treat with Apistan.My hive is mite free today. Herschel Shamblin Article 11704 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: beecrofter@aol.com (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Mite Treatment Debate Date: 5 Apr 1998 16:25:11 GMT Lines: 12 Message-ID: <1998040516251100.MAA22479@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <67OLoDAkarJ1EwQd@denrosa.demon.co.uk> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11704 I don't know I may be a fool but I am using Apistan according to the directions and mineral oil when I open a hive for any reason. Of 25 hives that went into winter 24 survived one deadout was 2 august swarms combined so no great loss loss there. And one hive appeared queenless so during the heat wave last week it got a frame of eggs to see what happens or at least stall the drone laying by workers untill some queens come in a few weeks. The heat wave in the Northeast has everyone concerned that the fruit trees will take a big hit from any late frosts. This time of year is normally the last weeks of pruning not the first of bloom. Tom in CT Article 11705 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!144.212.95.13.MISMATCH!nntprelay.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail From: P-O Gustafsson Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: P-O Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 20:21:38 +0200 Organization: Algonet/Tninet Lines: 23 Message-ID: <3527CBB2.861B035D@algonet.se> References: <3525b43a.0@news1.mid-ga.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: du81-2.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11705 Chip McCurdy wrote: > Does anybody know what happened to P-O's Page? Hi Chip, I have been asking that myself sometimes.... My old ISP didn't work so well and often caused problems and difficulty to access. Now I'm on a new server that hopefully will be better. You can find me at this URL: http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ Article 11706 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Mark Epps" <608ec@carolina.net> Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Ant problems in hives Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:41:53 -0400 Lines: 14 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: line81.carolina.net Message-ID: <3527a4ba.0@208.218.14.44> Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!205.252.116.205.MISMATCH!howland.erols.net!ais.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!208.218.14.44!line81.carolina.net Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11706 Help, Anyone ever have problems with ants in their hives. I opened two hives this morning to do a routine inspection and found big black ants in one hive . They had started laying transpartent eggs in a corner on my top board. How do you get rid of them? I am afraid to use any kind of poison for fear of it killing the bees. The second hive had small sugar ants. Will the bees be able to eradicated the ants all by themselves? Any advice would certainly be appreciated. Email is 608ec@carolina.net. Thanks, Mark Epps Article 11707 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!151.164.30.38!newsgate.swbell.net!swbell!not-for-mail From: Jim Owen Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Pollen Substitute Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 18:07:54 -0500 Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services, Richardson, TX Lines: 4 Message-ID: <35280ECA.1C11@swbell.net> References: <3526CA39.47FE@cnwl.igs.net> Reply-To: jimowen@swbell.net NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-151-164-48-61.rcsntx.swbell.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: (null) 891817651 13323 (None) 151.164.48.61 X-Complaints-To: usenet@nnrp3 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11707 The "Books" mention soy flour. I've used it, but I don't know that it's better than something else. (It is a vegetable protein, though) Jim Article 11708 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!205.139.56.103!news.pe.net!ns From: amschelp@pe.net (Peter Amschel) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Ant problems in hives Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 23:37:45 GMT Organization: PE.net - Internet access from the Press-Enterprise Company Lines: 27 Message-ID: <6g94gr$56l$1@victoria.pe.net> References: <3527a4ba.0@208.218.14.44> NNTP-Posting-Host: hem02ppp35.pe.net X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11708 One time I had pissants that the bees couldn't get rid of, and it turned out that the bees had nested themselves under the tin cover on the top board so getting ride of that top cover got rid of them. If they are coming up from the ground, some beekeepers use mechanical barriers. I stopped them one time by putting the hives on 4 coffee cans and then smearing axel grease around the coffee cans (This was the idea of my friend Mike the Apiculteur). Others have set the hives on concrete piers and smeared grease on the piers. In article <3527a4ba.0@208.218.14.44>, "Mark Epps" <608ec@carolina.net> wrote: >Help, > >Anyone ever have problems with ants in their hives. I opened two hives this >morning to do a routine inspection and found big black ants in one hive . >They had started laying transpartent eggs in a corner on my top board. How >do you get rid of them? I am afraid to use any kind of poison for fear of >it killing the bees. The second hive had small sugar ants. Will the bees >be able to eradicated the ants all by themselves? >Any advice would certainly be appreciated. Email is 608ec@carolina.net. > >Thanks, >Mark Epps > > Article 11709 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!fastnet!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!newsxfer.visi.net!newsfeed.usit.net!news.usit.net!not-for-mail From: rghallNoCrap@usit.net (Richard Hall) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Ant problems in hives Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:09:05 GMT Organization: United States Internet, Inc. Lines: 15 Message-ID: <3528c4f8.30588210@news.usit.net> References: <3527a4ba.0@208.218.14.44> <6g94gr$56l$1@victoria.pe.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.241.221.170 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11709 On Sun, 05 Apr 1998 23:37:45 GMT, amschelp@pe.net (Peter Amschel) wrote: >One time I had pissants that the bees couldn't get rid of, and it turned out >that the bees had nested themselves under the tin cover on the top board so >getting ride of that top cover got rid of them. If they are coming up from the >ground, some beekeepers use mechanical barriers. I stopped them one time by >putting the hives on 4 coffee cans and then smearing axel grease around the >coffee cans (This was the idea of my friend Mike the Apiculteur). Others have >set the hives on concrete piers and smeared grease on the piers. I sprinkle a small amount of diazonon(I think I spelled that right) around the back and sides of my hives and it has taken care of the problem. Richard (take out the NoCrap for e-mail) Article 11710 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Midnite" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <3526CA39.47FE@cnwl.igs.net> Subject: Re: Pollen Substitute Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 20:24:58 -0400 Lines: 17 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.161.30.170 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.161.30.170 Message-ID: <352820a9.0@newsfeed1.cybertours.com> Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!208.136.69.33!newsfeed1.cybertours.com!208.161.30.170 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11710 Greetings! go to my beelinks page and you will see the link for pollen sub...http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee -- Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 Niederkorns wrote in message <3526CA39.47FE@cnwl.igs.net>... >I was unable to buy any pollen or substitute from the local >bee supplier. While this is a lesson to collect some pollen >during the summer, does anyone know of a good recipe for >the protein without pollen??? Article 11711 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!usenet.logical.net!nntprelay.mathworks.com!nntp.abs.net!news.abs.net!mail.bcpl.lib.md.us!ftek From: 12321 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Honey Bee Software Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:17:05 -0400 Organization: ABSnet Internet Services, Inc. - (410)-685-2000 - info@abs.net Lines: 9 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.bcpl.lib.md.us Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11711 http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/soft.htm I can't vouch for this, only passing on the information. Joseph Article 11712 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!csulb.edu!awabi.library.ucla.edu!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.internetmci.com!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail From: Larry Williard Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: foundation wire question Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 20:10:29 -0500 Organization: All USENET -- http://www.Supernews.com Lines: 9 Message-ID: <35282B85.1EB12F75@bigfoot.com> Reply-To: circuit@bigfoot.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 19338@208.24.176.53 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11712 I am starting a hive and am getting bees this weekend. I built the frames and installed Kelly wire foundation, I also decided to add the horizontal wires to it. I strung the wires on both the front and back. My question is do I have to imbed the wire in the foundation or will the bees build through it ? If I do what's the easiest way to do it. Thanks Larry Article 11713 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.xcom.net!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.net!news.airnews.net!cabal10.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!usenet From: busykngt@airmail.net (BusyKnight) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: VARROA RESISTANT 'YUGO' BEE? (And yes, VARROA resistant!) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 12:59:34 GMT Organization: INTERNET AMERICA Lines: 45 Message-ID: X-Orig-Message-ID: <6g9as7$1sg@library.airnews.net> Reply-To: busykngt@mail.airmail.net NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Sun Apr 5 20:24:23 1998 NNTP-Posting-Host: dal34-27.ppp.iadfw.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:11713 I will post my question again (hoping for better responses). It seems the first time I posted this question, I only got two responses and both said that the Yugo bee was only advertised as being tracheal mite resistant. This, of course, is WRONG information; because like I thought I remembered, the Yugo bee was (is) also advertised to have VARROA mite resistance. My ORIGINAL question asked WHY this bee hasn't become the singular most popular bee in America (in light of claimed Varroa mite resistance): >Seems like a couple of years ago, I was seeing a lot of >hype from American bee researchers about this newly >developed Varroa resistant bee. Had some kind of >very scientific sounding name like, Y-RS19 (or some >such, equally nebulous nomenclature) -- mainly what I >recall, is the alternate and equally UNscientific name of >'Yugo' bee. >Has it 'caught on' as a popular race of bees in America? > (....and if not, why?). And now from the March 1998 issue of ABJ (Vol. 138, No. 3), page 188: "Taber's Honey Bee Genetics P.O. Box 1672, Vacaville, Ca. 95696 (707)449-0440 FIGHT MITES WITH... PURE YUGOSLAVIAN QUEENS The ARS Y-C1 Carniolan is the Yugoslavian bee imported by the USDA. These quiet, gray/black bees were imported to resist the tracheal mite and Varroa mite." Now that I've established the fact that these Yugo bees have been and presently ARE advertised as being resistant to Varroa mites, I would like to go back to my original question of WHY these bees haven't absolutely taken over the market? BusyKnight Dallas, TX Article 11715 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!not-for-mail From: "Ernest Scofield" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeep