Subject: Fava Beans

From: [email-masked] (Richard N Kitchen)
Date: 14 May 1993 22:29:54 GMT

I have read that fava beans were the only beans in the Old World prior
to Columbus.  Are fava beans a legume, or an entirely different crop?
What *is* a fava bean?  For some reason, I imagine a lima bean when I
think of favas.  Is a fava bean distinct from a lima bean?
-- 
Rick Kitchen
[email-masked]
(This is a .sig, not an autograph)

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 14 May 93 20:37:27 -0600

> think of favas.  Is a fava bean distinct from a lima bean?

Vicia faba is the scientific name of fava beans, and they are the beans
that the Romans ate.  And the Greeks.  Wasn't it Pythagoras who had
a thing about beans?

Anyhow...  Lima beans are Phaseolus lunatus.  South American in origin.
Entirely different critter.  

I've a vague memory that faba beans can be fatal for someone with a
genetic enzymatic deficiency (alpha something glucosidase?), and that
the gene is more common in people from around the Mediterranean area,
but it's Friday night, and I'm too lazy to walk to the other building
to check the genetics books....

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI

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From: [email-masked] (David Friedman)
Date: Sat, 15 May 1993 18:46:48 GMT

In addition to fava (aka broad) beans, lentils are also common in
pre-columbian old world cuisine. Modern Indian cooking has a wide variety
of lentil like things (Dhal is, I think, the generic term); I suspect that
these, like lentils, are old world but I do not really know.

Both canned and dried fava beans are fairly easy to find, incidentally. We
routinely use them for medieval recipes that specify beans.

David Friedman

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From: [email-masked] (Matthew Hawley)
Date: 16 May 1993 10:34:45 -0400

>these, like lentils, are old world but I do not really know.
   I don't have references for this, but my impression is that Orientals
 have been eating soybeans, aduki beans, snow peas, etc. for millenia.
 Anyone know about chickpeas, mung beans, peas, string beans? I'd imagine
 the "long beans" I see in Chinatown (like string beans, but 2-3' long)
 are also old world in origin.
                                                     Matt B^)

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From: [email-masked] (Thor Legvold)
Date: 16 May 93 15:18:34 GMT

[email-masked] (Matthew Hawley) writes:
: In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (David Friedman) writes:
: >In addition to fava (aka broad) beans, lentils are also common in
: >pre-columbian old world cuisine. Modern Indian cooking has a wide variety
: >of lentil like things (Dhal is, I think, the generic term); I suspect that
: >these, like lentils, are old world but I do not really know.
: >
:    I don't have references for this, but my impression is that Orientals
:  have been eating soybeans, aduki beans, snow peas, etc. for millenia.
:  Anyone know about chickpeas, mung beans, peas, string beans? I'd imagine
:  the "long beans" I see in Chinatown (like string beans, but 2-3' long)
:  are also old world in origin.
:                                                      Matt B^)

While not exactly historic, I was in Egypt in January, and bought a few
books on Egyptian and Middle Eastern cooking.  The Fava bean (El ful) is
used extensively (national dish of Egypt is slow cooked fava beans -
ful medamis), as are lentils.  Supposedly it is one of the first legumes
used in that area by man.

The Japanese (I also do a good deal of Japanese cooking :-) have been 
eating soyabeans (daizu = great bean/growth) for before they can remember,
and the Chinese before them.  Mung beans are also quite old, I've been
told.

Sorry for the sloppy (lacking) references...

Regards,
Thor
-- 
Thor Legvold                 |    This is the strangest life
NorNeXT User Group leader    |    I've ever known...
University of Bergen         |         - Jim Morrison, The Doors

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From: [email-masked] ()
Date: 17 May 1993 16:18:04 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (David Friedman) writes:
>pre-columbian old world cuisine. 

Also green peas and chickpeas (garbanzos).  An important source of
protein for peasants who didn't get a whole lot of meat even outside
of Lent.

Dorothy J. Heydt
UC Berkeley
[email-masked]

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 17 May 93 12:58:18 PST

In light of the discussion on fava beans, I'd like to share some info I picked
up while researching agricultural practices of the Middle Ages.

Fava beans, known to the ancient Romans (several references in Apicius) are
legumes, or "pulses", in the same family as the pea and lentil. If you examine
 a fava bean (I've only seen dried ones), they look somewhat like a lima bean 
(hence the logical connection in some people's minds). 

There is a disorder associated with the ingestion of large quantities of fava 
beans called, appropriately, "favaism". If I remember correctly, the symptoms 
include headaches and visual impairment. There were a number of myths 
surrounding beans in the Roman times, and some people believed that they held 
the souls of the dead. While the agricultural practices of the time recognised 
the benefits of alternating grain
crops with legumes (nitrogen fixing, we know now...), the idea didn't really
catch on. I vaguely remember an account of some notable (Aristotle?) who was
captured by his enemies because he would not cross a bean field. 

FYI, while lentils (in their many colors), chickpeas, green peas,  fava beans
and the like are very old world, green beans and most other beans (kidney,
black beans, scarlett runner beans, etc) are not. When in doubt, think about
the kind of plant they grow on. Legumes like the pea and lentil have very
different leaves than the broad leaf on a string bean plant.

Oh, and did you know, that Pullman, Washington is considered (at least by its
own residents :)) to be the Pea and Lentil capital of the world? I'd be curious
if any other community would actually take this to be it's claim to fame...

--Anne-Marie Rousseau
now of Seattle, but I used to live in Pullman...:)
e-mail: [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Richard N Kitchen)
Date: 17 May 1993 23:01:35 GMT

>these, like lentils, are old world but I do not really know.

But lentils are peas.  Are favas really beans?  And what is the
difference, anyway?

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From: [email-masked] (Scott Fisher)
Date: Mon, 17 May 1993 22:42:20 GMT

>>pre-columbian old world cuisine. 

So who can name the species (singular or plural?) of beans popular
in the New World before contact?  I know there were legumes here
before they arrived from Europe, but I haven't been able to find
out which ones.  The "horse bean" is, I think, mentioned in Andrews
as one of the earliest cultivated vegetables (along with the bottle
gourd and capsicum species) in the Americas, followed shortly by maize.
Anybody know what we'd call a "horse bean" today?

>protein for peasants who didn't get a whole lot of meat even outside

And lest we forget, the classical Roman family names of Fabius and
Cicero refer, respectively, to fava beans and chickpeas.  

I, of course, cannot think of fava beans without bringing to mind
the musky tang of grilled liver and the sweet, raisiny depth of a 
big Amarone...

--Scott "Thhpthhpthhpthhpthhpthhpthhp" Fisher

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From: [email-masked] ()
Date: 18 May 1993 16:20:23 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Scott Fisher) writes:
>out which ones.  

Almost all of the beans we know today.  All the species of genus
_Phaseolus._

Dorothy J. Heydt
UC Berkeley

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From: [email-masked] (Nick Maclaren)
Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 21:24:11 GMT

>Almost all of the beans we know today.  All the species of genus

That takes a rather restricted view of beans!  Broad beans (Vicia Faba)
are more common in the Western world than the Fava beans of the Levant,
and have been eaten for some thousands of years.  Soy beans come from
China, Mung beans from India, and both are pretty ancient, too.  That
excludes what the USA calls Garbanzo beans and the UK calls chick peas,
all the peas, lentils and several other beans that are eaten in parts
of Asia.

Yes, French, Kidney, Lima, Runner, Haricot etc. beans are all Phaseolus
and are from the New World, but there are plenty of Old World species
of bean commonly eaten today.

Nick Maclaren
University of Cambridge Computer Laboratory,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street,
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England.
Email:  [email-masked]
Tel.:   +44 223 334761
Fax:    +44 223 334679