Subject: medieval recipes?

From: [email-masked] (Cynthia Coutts)
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 14:01

Does anyone know of any medieval recipes, preferably ones used before
the thirteenth century?  I recall reading an ad for some sort of
medieval cookbook, which may have been put out by Toronto University,
but I haven't been able to locate it.  Thanks in advance!

                                           --Cynthia Coutts
                                             UCLA GSLIS/Medieval History
                                             [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Henry Troup)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1993 13:48:25 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Cynthia Coutts) writes:
|> Does anyone know of any medieval recipes, preferably ones used before
|> the thirteenth century?  I recall reading an ad for some sort of
|> medieval cookbook, which may have been put out by Toronto University,
|> but I haven't been able to locate it.  Thanks in advance!

We should probably start a medieval recipe book FAQ.  Ok, I volunteer.

The book in question is likely Pleyn Delite (sp?) Butler and Hieatt (sp),
U of Toronto Press, before 1980 and often reprinted.

Another book by them is An Ordinance of Pottage, now out of print.

Curye on Englishe also comes to mind.

Lorna Sass published "To the Kings Taste" (early-ish) and "To the Queen's Taste"
(elizabethan-ish) through the Metropolitan Museum.

FAQ submissions should be better than this, but post them, please.
Try to classify - all of the above are modern redactions with original recipes,
for example.

Raving again,

-- 
Henry Troup - [email-masked] (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
	 "Some will die for fortune, some will die for pleasure,
		      but only lovers die for love"

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From: [email-masked] (Diane Duane)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1993 18:47:01 GMT

>|> the thirteenth century? 

Sorry, the cat aborted that last message before I was ready.

Also possibly useful:  

TAKE A BUTTOCK OF BEEFE, Verity Isitt, Ashford Press, ISBN
0-907069-57-6 (hardcover, but also in paperback):  recipes
of the 1500-1600's.  

TO DRESSE FLOUNDERS:

Flea off the black skin, and scowr the fish over on that
side with a knife, lay them in a dish, and poure on them
some Vinegar, and strew good store of Salt, let them lye
for half an hour, in the mean time set on the fire some
water with a little white Wine, Garlick and sweet Herbs as
you please, putting into it the Vinegar and salt wherein
they lay, when it boyles put in the biggest fish, then the
next till all be in, when they are boyled, take them out
and drain them very well, then draw some sweet butter
thick, and mix with it some Anchoves shred small, which
being dissolved in the butter, pour it on the fish,
strewing a little sliced Nutmeg, and minced Oranges and
Barbaries. (?)

Best!  D.

    Diane E. Duane / Potter's Pasture / Kilbride / Wicklow / Ireland
      "A little science...a little magic...a little chicken soup."
      Internet:  [email-masked] / Compuserve: 73200,3112
   Formerly:  [email-masked]  (this address expires 1 Sep '93)

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From: [email-masked] (Diane Duane)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1993 18:41:48 GMT

>We should probably start a medieval recipe book FAQ.  Ok, I volunteer.

 A noble endeavour.  

 These aren't strictly medieval, but might be of use.  

 ELINOR FETTIPLACE'S RECEIPT BOOK, Hilary Spurling: 
Penguin, ISBN 0-14-008828-8 (this is the paperback: 
there's also a hardcover from Viking/Salamander). 
"Practical cookery book, social document and a unique
glimpse of Elizabethan England."  

A typical recipe from the September chapter (the books is
divided by months):

TO MAKE JELLIE OF ANY FRUITE

Take your fruit, & put it into an earthen pot, & set it in
a pot of boyling water, & as they stewe poure out the
clearest of the syrupe, way to every pound thereof a pound
of Sugar, put so much water to the Sugar as will wet it, &
let it boile till it almost come to Sugar againe, then
poure in the Jellie of your plums, wch must be kept hot on
the fire all the time your sugar is boyling, then let the
Sugar & that boile together two or three walmes, & then
put it out in Boxes, & set it a drying. (ef you well have
hold fruit ly in the gely you must presarve et with out
stones and when the gely is redy to be dryed put et in and
so drey et)

(They also have a modernized version of each recipe
following the original.)

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From: [email-masked] (David Friedman)
Date: 3 Oct 1993 04:17:47 GMT

Someone posted, and someone else quoted, the query:

"Does anyone know of any medieval recipes, preferably ones used before the
thirteenth century?" 

With only slight exaggeration, the answer is that there are lots of
medieval recipes but none surviving that can be reliably dated to before
the thirteenth century. More precisely:

There is a surviving Roman cookbook; while it is conceivable that someone
at a time one might describe as "medieval" used it it is not a medieval
cookbook.

There is a sixth century letter on diet written by a Byzantine physician to
Theodoric, King of the Franks, which contains a few recipes. Again, too
early to be medieval.

There is a tenth century Islamic collection of cookbooks, including one
that may have actually been written c. 800. There exists a modern edition
in Arabic, but no published English translation so far as I know. There are
also probably some pre-thirteenth century Islamic recipes in "From a
Caliph's Kitchen," and there are a few in the Miscellany that my wife and I
publish (from unpublished translations of the 10th c. collection)--but I
assume you are looking for European recipes.

>From the thirteenth century there are at least three Islamic cookbooks, two
of which have been translated into English. There are some surviving
cookbooks (15h c.?) which are believed to be daughter manuscripts of a lost
13th century cookbook  from southern europe. There are some 13th c. Anglo
Norman recipes that have been published. Starting in the 14th century there
is lots of stuff.

Sorry.

David Friedman
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (108116)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 20:19:00 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (David Friedman) writes...
>"Does anyone know of any medieval recipes, preferably ones used before the

I have (packed away of course) a cookbook of recipes and such from the court
of Richard II, England.  They give been tested and adapted to modern 
mesures and ingredients, however, the original recipe is also provided.
This was s gift but I saw it a few years ago in a museum gift catalog.  Check
all the major (NY, Boston, CHicago,...) art museums who publish gift
catalogs.

Heather Porton   (nee Albright)
e-mail     : [email-masked]
Compuserve : 76350,3151

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From: Alan Deacon
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 11:30:45 GMT

>e-mail     : [email-masked]

One of the best recipes in that book is on the inside of the covers. A
couple of pages of the original manuscript are produced in facsimile. If
you can read the writing they are quite interesting. The one which stood
out for me was 'purpoise with frumenty'. Frumenty is a rich grain porridge
usually served with venison, during lent fish was used instead. Maybe
this recipe could carry a 'tuna friendly' sticker :-) 

--
	Alan Deacon
	Central Computing Service		Email: [email-masked]
	University College London		Tel: +44 71-380 7359
	Gower Street, London WC1E 6BT		Fax: +44 71-388 5406

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From: [email-masked] (Lucy Chubb,-x31,6982322)
Date: 11 Oct 93 00:01:17 GMT

>From article <[email-masked]>, by [email-masked] (David Friedman):
> 

Do you have any of the details on the ones translated into English?
(title, name of translator, publisher, etc.)

		Lucy Chubb.

Softway Pty Ltd,		Phone: +61 2 698 2322;
P.O. Box 305,			Fax: +61 2 699 9174;
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