Subject: moonshine question

From: [email-masked] (Cindy H. Robinson)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 13:40:19 GMT

i was trying to explain to a friend, whilst discussing 
making moonshine, that i heard/understood the stuff could 
be lethal - although i could not remember why.

anyone care to "shine" some light on this for me? :)

many thanks, cindy
-- 
************************************************************************
*  Cindy H. Robinson		Computer Science Department	       *
*  [email-masked]		Cornell University		       *
************************************************************************

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From: [email-masked] (Nick Maclaren)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 14:05:28 GMT

[email-masked] (Cindy H. Robinson) writes:
< i was trying to explain to a friend, whilst discussing
< making moonshine, that i heard/understood the stuff could
< be lethal - although i could not remember why.

It is very easy to make a spirit that is high in methanol or (worse)
alcohols heavier than ethanol and similar stuff.  Small amounts of
these give whisky, brandy etc. much of their flavour and are known
as congeners.  However, they are highly poisonous in large amounts,
and can lead to blindness, death and other problems.

The skill of distillation is to keep the poisons as low as possible
while maintaining the flavour and increasing the alcoholic strength.
While it does not need much equipment, it is not a trivial task.

Nick Maclaren
University of Cambridge Computer Laboratory,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street,
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England.
Email:  [email-masked]
Tel.:   +44 223 334761
Fax:    +44 223 334679

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From: [email-masked] (Rich Young)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 16:04:07 GMT

>While it does not need much equipment, it is not a trivial task.

	Actually, the problem with 'shine as I understand it is much more
	basic: it's often made using such arcane equipment as automobile
	radiators which are soldered with lead and contain other heavy
	metals.  These leach out and can cause all kinds of problems,
	though perhaps not as rapidly as a good slug of methanol.

	By the way, the treatment for methanol ingestion (and ethylene
	glycol, too, I think) is ingestion of ethanol...the liver will
	process the ethanol preferentially, thus allowing the methanol
	to be excreted by the kidneys before the liver gets a chance to 
	convert it to things like formic acid and formaldehyde, which
	do wonderful things like overload the alkali buffering system
	in the body causing acidosis and possibly destroying important
	bits like the pancreas.  As little as 2 teaspoonsful of methanol
	is considered toxic.

	[Actually, I lied: there are TWO parts to treatment of methanol
	 poisoning: the above-mentioned ethanol, which commandeers the
	 alcohol dehydrogenase system because ethanol is the preferred
	 substrate, and correction of the acidosis condition, usually 
	 with sodium bicarbonate, orally and IV.]

-Rich Young

(The views expressed herein do not reflect those of Eastman Kodak Company Inc.)

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From: [email-masked] (Rick Ballard)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 22:34:45 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked]
 (Nick Maclaren) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (Nick Maclaren)
>Subject: Re: moonshine question
>Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 14:05:28 GMT

>and can lead to blindness, death and other problems.
 
It is -impossible- to make methanol through fermentation and distillation of
sugars. Methanol is made somehow from wood. The stories of blindness
are from people actually drinking methanol. Of course drinking ethanol can 
kill you. People have died from drinking a quart of vodka. The higher 
alcohols are noted mainly for a capacity to cause incredible headaches and 
hangovers.  

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Rick Ballard         | [email-masked]
1855 Walnut Street   |
Halifax, Nova Scotia | 902-429-8850
Canada B3H-3S8       |

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From: [email-masked] (William T. McDonald)
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 01:04:11 GMT

I'd like to emphasize what another post-er mentioned. Blindness,
brain damage, and death from long-term and/or ingestion of moonshine
have long been a problem. The problems (more common in earlier
decades) stemmed from the use of lead pipes in the stills, and the
lead content in the various chambers people used to hold the mush or
the distillate. Other heavy metals have also been found in
moonshine...some at toxic levels.

By the same token, Virginia has licensed some moonshiners to produce
their stuff and sell it in the state-run ABC stores. This is
high-quality, high-octane, corn 'shine. I still prefer bourbon or
Tennessee Sour Mash.

Regards,
Tom McDonald, [email-masked]
Richmond, VA

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From: [email-masked] (Scott Fisher)
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 01:25:57 GMT

>and can lead to blindness, death and other problems.

Fusel oil, don't forget fusel oil!

Also, as a discussion in rec.food.drink reminded us recently, 
you need to use either copper or stainless-steel tubing for
the condensation coil, and silver-solder all the joints.  Lead
solder is bad for obvious reasons, but brass and even zinc-coated
steel fittings can cause "toxic mineral salts" (the original
poster's words) to leach into the final distillate.

--Scott

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From: [email-masked] (Dave Platt)
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 20:00:28 GMT

>>alcohols heavier than ethanol and similar stuff.

>sugars. 

I believe that you are both correct.

>           Methanol is made somehow from wood.

... or by fermentation from a source material which contains the same
biochemicals as wood does.

I understand that there _is_ a methanol risk involved in making
moonshine.  This is due to the fact that 'shine is not made from a
relatively pure mix of fermentable sugars.  Instead, it's often made
from a relatively simple corn mash which has not been filtered.  These
crude corn mashes can contain a significant amount of more complex
carbohydrate materials (such as, I suspect, cellulose and lignin and so
forth), which can be fermented into methanol.  The resulting 'shine ends
up with a mixture of different alcohols... mostly ethanol with (in some
cases) enough methanol to make it dangerous to consume.
-- 
Dave Platt                                                VOICE: (415) 813-8917
              Domain: [email-masked]      UUCP: ...netcomsv!ntg!dplatt
 USNAIL: New Technologies Group Inc. 2470 Embarcardero Way, Palo Alto CA 94303

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From: [email-masked] (Stephen Jacobs)
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1993 00:51:34 GMT

I'm not completely sure of this, but I have the impression that fermented
sugar cane contains a trace of hydrogen cyanide.  Since this is the most
volatile component in the mixture (if present...this is only a vague memory),
being around when the first few drops of a batch of rum come over might be
kinda fatal.
                                          Steve

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From: [email-masked] (Craig Sitch)
Date: 9 Sep 1993 02:55:30 GMT

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