Subject: Re: Medieval Vegetarian Recipes

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 16:41:06

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Stephen Bloch) writes:

>Oh, dear!  Do they mention where they got the recipes?  If they've got a
>"medieval" recipe for "parsley trencher bread", I'll wager it dates to
>the 1970's, and no earlier.  Specifically, it probably comes from
>the book _Fabulous Feasts_ by Madeleine Pelner Cosman, who seems to have
>made up the recipe out of her imagination.  And every time somebody
>repeats it, it gains credibility as an actual medieval dish.

>If that's their source, I wouldn't give a lot of credence to the other
>recipes either.

If you're expecting 20th century Americans to eat the food that is probably 
just as well, anyway.  :-P

Micky

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From: [email-masked] (Emily Epstein)
Date: 12 Sep 94 16:33:25 GMT

>Moreta ([email-masked]) wrote:
>If you can get a copy of The Herb Companion, December/January 1991,
>there are a lot of recipes in this issue, and the main highlight of it
>is Medieval Herbs.
>They have several recipes in it.. some of the recipes are fried
>artichokes with rue, mulled apple or pear cider, parsley trencher bread,
>there are a lot of different recipes, and there are a few meat and
>dessert ones. Check it out.
The Herb Companion is a fine magazine. I first saw it when a friend called 
that article to my attention. Unfortunately, that's the only good thing I have 
to say about the article. While she has a small bibliography that lists several
other books, Ms. Cranch lifted virtually all of the recipes almost
verbatim from _Fabulous_Feasts_ by M.P.Cosman, with only slightly better 
attribution than Cosman used in *her* book. (i.e. slightly better than nothing)
The article's text isn't terribly reliable either. There are several assertions
that I've never seen made anywhere else, and no indication of where  
the information came from.

If you haven't done a lot of reading on medieval food, I'd suggest you steer
clear of both the _Herb_Companion_ article and _Fabulous_Feasts_. Neither
provides the original recipes for comparison, and I've yet to see anything that
leads me to believe that Cosman's versions of these dishes are anything like 
authentic. Even if you don't want to try cooking from Middle English Recipes,  
there are some modern redactions available. I'd suggest you try _Pleyn_Delit_
by Hieatt and Butler, or _Take_1,000_Eggs_or_More_ by Renfrow. You should be
able to get them through interlibrary loan if your local library doesn't have
them. You might also try _To_the_King's_Taste_ by Sass, although the modern
English translations of the recipes are more reliable than her adapted versions

Medieval recipes can produce very tasty food without making huge changes for
"modern" tastes. I've even brought my versions of some of them to modern
potlucks, and they were well received. Good luck.

Emily Epstein
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Mark Waks)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 22:02:04 GMT

>just as well, anyway.  :-P

Don't be silly. What makes a feast good is a cook who knows what they're
doing. I've done four nominally-medieval feasts over the past ten years,
getting gradually more authentic. The last was pretty strictly authentic,
all of the recipes taken from a couple of medieval Islamic cookbooks. It
was also the best-received -- out of a feast that included fairly
generous portions for a hundred people, there were virtually no leftovers.

If you know how to cook, and are sensitive to modern tastes when
selecting your dishes, it's not that hard to make an authentic period
feast that'll be better liked than 75% of what you can get in modern
restaurants...

				-- Justin du Coeur

Random Quote du Jour:

"Times are bad.  Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is
 writing a book."
"Or a paper on cold fusion."
		-- Bill Johnson (and Cicero)

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From: [email-masked] (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Date: 13 Sep 94 22:06:15 EDT

[email-masked] writes, about inauthentic medieval redactions:
  If you're expecting 20th century Americans to eat the food that is probably 
  just as well, anyway.  :-P

Speaking from first hand redaction and gustatory experience, not true at
all.  I have served medieval dishes to friends, and especially family, and
the love it.  It helps that I crib from the best.

	Mark Schuldenfrei
-- 
Mark Schuldenfrei ([email-masked])
  "A friend isn't something you use once and throw away. A friend is
  something you use over and over and over again."
		-- Mike B., quoting someone else

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 23:16:06

>        Mark Schuldenfrei

What sorts of things did you serve?  I'm curious because most of the recipes I 
have seen do not appeal to me in the least.  ( I am not a particularly picky 
eater, btw. :-D)

Micky

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From: [email-masked] (steve hix)
Date: 15 Sep 1994 23:54:13 GMT

In article [email-masked], [email-masked] (Stephen Bloch) writes:
:I wrote:
:>>... I'll wager it dates to the 1970's, and no earlier....
:
:In article <[email-masked]>,  <[email-masked]> replied:
:>If you're expecting 20th century Americans to eat the food that is probably 
:>just as well, anyway.  :-P
:
:Bearing in mind the smiley, I'll try not to go into flame mode, but that
:IS a hot button.  I've eaten probably hundreds of dishes made from
:medieval recipes, mostly by people who try scrupulously not to impose
:modern preferences on the recipes, and found them delicious.  Medieval
:European cooking has some unfamiliar combinations of flavors, but so did
:Cantonese cooking before white Americans got used to it (what? they put
:GINGER, GARLIC, HONEY, and VINEGAR in the same dish? Yecch!)

Tastes fine to me...

As for recent changes in Cantonese cooking, trust me; the Chinese over
here have a lot of changing on their of the cusine on their own, mostly
due to differences in what fresh veggies, etc. were available.

At least, judging from my wife's relatives, all Cantonese and Shanghai-
descended Chinese.

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From: [email-masked] (Donna Bowers)
Date: 16 Sep 1994 00:14:49 GMT

Stephen Bloch ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Bearing in mind the smiley, I'll try not to go into flame mode, but that
: IS a hot button.  I've eaten probably hundreds of dishes made from
: medieval recipes, mostly by people who try scrupulously not to impose
: modern preferences on the recipes, and found them delicious.  Medieval
: European cooking has some unfamiliar combinations of flavors, but so did
: Cantonese cooking before white Americans got used to it (what? they put
: GINGER, GARLIC, HONEY, and VINEGAR in the same dish? Yecch!)

I almost exclusively use Medieval recipes and spicing combinations when I 
cook now. <15 years in Medieval re-enactment takes its toll> My mundane, 
whitebread relatives *LOVE* what I cook. It takes a light hand with the 
spice, until you get a feel for it but I can't eat regular food anymore. 
It's tooooo bland and boring.

: --
:                                                  Stephen Bloch
:                                            [email-masked]
:                                         Math/CS Dept, Adelphi University
Tauna
--
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Good, Bad, ...I'm the guy with the gun...-Ash
 
[email-masked]
 
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From: [email-masked] (Stephen Bloch)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 22:31:36 GMT

I wrote:
>>... I'll wager it dates to the 1970's, and no earlier....

>just as well, anyway.  :-P

Bearing in mind the smiley, I'll try not to go into flame mode, but that
IS a hot button.  I've eaten probably hundreds of dishes made from
medieval recipes, mostly by people who try scrupulously not to impose
modern preferences on the recipes, and found them delicious.  Medieval
European cooking has some unfamiliar combinations of flavors, but so did
Cantonese cooking before white Americans got used to it (what? they put
GINGER, GARLIC, HONEY, and VINEGAR in the same dish? Yecch!)

--
                                                 Stephen Bloch
                                           [email-masked]
                                        Math/CS Dept, Adelphi University