Subject: History of Tamales?

From: [email-masked] (CRISTINA AGUILAR-FRIAR )
Date: 24 Nov 1994 03:27:47 GMT

Does anyone out there know what the story behind Mexican tamales is?
They are traditionally served during holidays.  Some people say tamales 
was the food of the Aztec during festivals.  Any body out there know?  
Thanks Cris

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From: [email-masked] (John C. Gilkey)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 08:15:46 -0800

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
(CRISTINA AGUILAR-FRIAR ) wrote:

> was the food of the Aztec during festivals.

Check out Sahagun's History of the Things of New Spain, Book 8,
Chapter13,  on what the lords ate, including several kinds of tamales.  He
also has some things on their ritual use in chapters on religion.  Diego
Duran, another friar who wrote in the period after the Conquest, also has
some info.  Aztecs arrived late in Basin of Mexico, and tamales have many
regional variations, so are likely to be much more ancient, and use not
confined to Aztec festivals.

Laurel Cooper c/o [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (SDunavan)
Date: 26 Nov 1994 09:40:16 -0500

>was the food of the Aztec during festivals. 

One archaeologist argues that tamales were more important in the Yucatan &
Central America in Classic Maya times (ca. AD 100-900);  in Postclassic
times (after AD 900), he thinks tortillas became more important.  He shows
lots of good representations of tamales from Mayan art in his article --
the reference is Karl A. Taube, "The Maize Tamale in Classic Maya Diet,
Epigraphy, and Art", in American Antiquity 54(1):31-51, from 1989. 
SDunavan

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From: [email-masked] (steve hix)
Date: 28 Nov 1994 20:16:44 GMT

In article [email-masked], [email-masked] (SDunavan) writes:
:(CRISTINA AGUILAR-FRIAR ) writes:
:
:>Does anyone out there know what the story behind Mexican tamales is?
:>They are traditionally served during holidays.  Some people say tamales 
:>was the food of the Aztec during festivals. 
:
:One archaeologist argues that tamales were more important in the Yucatan &
:Central America in Classic Maya times (ca. AD 100-900);  in Postclassic
:times (after AD 900), he thinks tortillas became more important.

And now they're a item among Chinese Americans (at least in central California).

A couple of mods to the typical form: sticky rice instead of masa, filling
including ginko nuts/egg yolk/lap cheung (sausage)/etc. and wrapped with
either corn husks or ti leaves(?). Maybe this munchy is originally from
China and only mimics tamales...my wife's grandmother won't tell me.

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From: [email-masked] (Dave Press)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 20:46:55

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Edward Gosfield) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (Edward Gosfield)
>Subject: Re: History of Tamales?
>Date: 29 Nov 1994 21:56:22 GMT

>: And now they're (...) Chinese Americans (at least in central
>California). 

>: A couple of mods to the typical form: sticky rice instead of masa, filling
>: including ginko nuts/egg yolk/lap cheung (sausage)/etc. and wrapped with
>: either corn husks or ti leaves(?). Maybe this munchy is originally from
>: China and only mimics tamales...my wife's grandmother won't tell me.

>I'm not sure without pulling out a bunch of other books, but i believe 
>there are similar versions in other SE Asian cuisines, possibly by 
>diffusion from China, but so far the earliest rice has been found in 
>Thailand, so who knows who was making stuffed grain balls (ground or 
>otherwise) steamed in leaves first.

>They all taste good :)

A tamale-like traditional Thai dessert called Kao Tom Paht consists of a 
filling of sweet taro root, or mung beans, or some other combination, wrapped 
in sticky rice and steamed in a banana leaf.  Very good when fresh, they can 
be bought at the Thai groceries in L.A.'s Chinatown.

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From: [email-masked] (Edward Gosfield)
Date: 29 Nov 1994 21:56:22 GMT

InPhiladelphia they are sold in Chinese groceries with a filling of 
peanuts,a small amount of meat, and some flavoring which seems to be 
based on brown bean sauce, ie, savory in character.  They are wrapped in 
what seems to be ti leaves (cordyline terminalis).  Pretty good steamed.  
I think this is really indigenous, and not a modification of tamales.  
Both Japanese and Chinese traditional cooking contain examples of rice 
balls with "surprises" inside.

"Chinese desert dim sum and snack cookbook" by Chang(s)& Kutcher(s) lists 
a rice flour ball with cherries inside, and another one with a savory 
meat and vegetable filling.

"Classic deem sum" by Chan and Haycock(s) lists "steamed pearl balls" 
:jun jew kao.  Steamed rice grains surround a pork stuffing.

In the same book, "Lotus leaf rice" (Naw mai gai) is steamed rice
surrounding a peanut, dried shrimp, chicken breast, sausage, duck egg, and
soy based sauce, all wrapped in lotus leaf. This seems similar to what is
described above, and what I have also found in Phila.  In LA I had it
wrapped in lotus leaves (at the late and lamented Grandview Gardens in the
downtown chinatown). 

They all taste good :)

[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Stuart Siu)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 21:05:07 GMT

steve hix ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In article [email-masked], [email-masked] (SDunavan) writes:
: :(CRISTINA AGUILAR-FRIAR ) writes:
: :
: :>Does anyone out there know what the story behind Mexican tamales is?
: :>They are traditionally served during holidays.  Some people say tamales 
: :>was the food of the Aztec during festivals. 
: :
: :One archaeologist argues that tamales were more important in the Yucatan &
: :Central America in Classic Maya times (ca. AD 100-900);  in Postclassic
: :times (after AD 900), he thinks tortillas became more important.

: And now they're a item among Chinese Americans (at least in central California).

These Chinese "tamales" are indigenous to China and not a replica of
Pre-columbus tamales.

There is a story behind the Chinese "tamales". There was a prime minister who
had advised the king on certain issues (fuzzy here), but the king rejected
the advice. The prime minister, thinking he had lost face, committed suicide
by jumping into the harbor. Well, the people loved the prime minister and
made rice dumplings(ala Chinese "tamales") and threw them into the water so
that the fishes, sharks, etc... would eat the dumplings and not the prime
minister's body. So every year, during a certain time of the year, Chinese
would celebrate this event by making rice dumplings.

I forget what time of year this is done as I have not lived at home for awhile.
I got this story when I was touring in China.

Stuart Siu