Subject: Indian Cooking c. 1597

From: [email-masked] (david director friedman)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 23:47:52 GMT

Recently I learned about the _Ain I Akbari_ from Robin Carroll-Mann,
got it out of the library, and have been experimenting. It was
written about 1597 in Mughal India, by a high official of Akbar's
court. It contains ingredient lists, with quantities but with almost
no instructions, for 30 dishes and for bread, along with lots of
other interesting things, such as instructions for making arrack (a
distilled liquor based on sugar), prices for foodstuffs, etc.

My wife and I have matched up several of the recipes with dishes from
13th and 15th century Islamic cookbooks, which have directions but
usually no quantities, and also gotten some very tentative
identifications with a few modern Indian dishes. The food is good,
but surprisingly salty. I would guess that the amount of salt is
several times what I would use if cooking to taste. I have not
thought of any plausible explanation.

I thought people here might be interested both in the existence of
the source--the nearest thing to a pre-1600 Indian cookbook that I
know of--and our observations so far. Incidentally, the _Ain I
Akbari_ is volume 3 of the Akbarnama, and might possibly be listed
that way in a library.

David Friedman

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From: [email-masked] (Geeta Bharathan)
Date: 31 Oct 1994 05:39:34 GMT

1) Did Marco Polo take pasta back to Europe from China? Makes sense, but is 
   it true? 

2) If pasta originated in Asia, where did that happen? South east Asia? 
   China? Japan?
   were the first pastas made from rice? 
   (we make pasta of rice in southern India -- was that a Malaysian import?
    when did that happen?)

Any answers/references?

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From: [email-masked] (david director friedman)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 23:38:29 GMT

Geeta Bharathan asks:

"1) Did Marco Polo take pasta back to Europe from China? Makes sense,
but is it true?"

Improbable. Pasta was widely used in the Islamic world long before
Marco Polo, and the Italians had commercial dealings with al-Islam.
Besides, Sicily and southern Italy had sizable Muslim populations
long before Marco Polo. Al-Baghdadi (about 1226 A.D.) has a pasta
recipe (Rishta)--a good one too.

"2) If pasta originated in Asia, where did that happen? South east
Asia? China? Japan? were the first pastas made from rice?"

I doubt anyone knows. It might have been invented in more than one
place. Charles Perry, in an article in PPC, argued that there is no
clear evidence for pasta in classical antiquity. On the other hand,
it shows up not only in the early Islamic cookbooks but in some of
the earliest European cookbooks (The 13th c. Anglo-norman has
Cuskynoles, which I interpret as a sort of pasta, although the recipe
is not entirely clear). There is lots of pasta (lozinges, ravioles,
...) in the 14th-15th c. English/French cuisine, and while it could
conceivably be via Marco Polo, I would be surprised to see Italian
influence spreading that fast. Does anyone know if there are
references to the medieval pasta dishes in sources earlier than the
cookbooks?

David Friedman

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From: [email-masked] (Jolie)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 01:46:27 GMT

>1) Did Marco Polo take pasta back to Europe from China? Makes sense, but is 

	Yes. Yes.
>   (we make pasta of rice in southern India -- was that a Malaysian import?

	Pasta was originated in China.  The first pasta was made from rice.

Jolie

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From: [email-masked] (Terry Favero)
Date: 3 Nov 1994 07:26:52 -0800

You'll find answers to these questions and more in the article Pasta by 
Corby Kummer. Atlantic monthly, Aug 86, I think.

Geeta Bharathan ([email-masked]) wrote:
: 1) Did Marco Polo take pasta back to Europe from China? Makes sense, but is 
:    it true? 

: 2) If pasta originated in Asia, where did that happen? South east Asia? 
:    China? Japan?
:    were the first pastas made from rice? 
:    (we make pasta of rice in southern India -- was that a Malaysian import?
:     when did that happen?)

: Any answers/references?