Subject: Re: Mincemeat pies (alternatives to meat)

From: [email-masked] (Scott S. Zeller)
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 00:32:24 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Cheryl Tallan) writes:
>In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Pat Churchill) writes:
>>Over on rec.food.cooking someone was asking if Christmas mincemeat
>>used to contain meat.
>
>Let us not forget that "meat" used to cover vast tracts of semantic
>territory that it no longer covers. In fact, it used to mean "food"
>rather than just flesh. 
>
>So- mincemeat originilly meant minced food. It may or may not have
>contained flesh.
>
>David Tallan (NOT Cheryl, I'm just posting from her account)

This is more in line with what I'm used to.  My mother's mincemeat pies
(and those of her Ukranian-born mother) contained minced green tomatoes
(kept from the first light frost of the year) as the 'meat'.  I believe
some of her friends would use apples as well.  Frankly, the idea of meat
in with all of those other ingredients sounds a bit unappetizing to me
(not that I wouldn't be game to try it).

Regards,
Scott

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From: [email-masked] (John Ridley)
Date: 12 Dec 93 19:55:00 GMT

lessee...Joy of Cooking has a mincemeat recipe that calls for meat,
(lean beef or ox heart, and suet), and they also have a "mock" mince
pie recipe that has green tomatoes in it, and I have a mince pie recipe
(from Gourmet magazine) that uses Granny Smith apples.  My suspicion is
that mince "meat" originated as a frugal way to use up every last bit of
the fall's slaughter/harvest, just like green tomato relish and any
number of old world sausages (head cheese, braunschweiger, blood
sausage, etc.).  The alcohol and sugar would keep the stuff from
spoiling, and a pie made from it it would be served as a main dish in
the middle of March or so.

Remember that pies, as such, are not strictly desserts, and many
cultures have recipes for meat pies.  Also, there is nothing
historically odd about mixing meat and fruits...our ancestors were much
more willing to do exactly that...one of the few examples that has
come down to most of us is that darn sweet raisin sauce that some
restaurants serve to hide the fact that their ham is preety awful.

jenn (just using john's account, 'cause I can't get my own)

to

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. SLMR 2.1a . Waiter, there's a FEATURE in my soup!

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From: [email-masked] (Phyllis Gilmore)
Date: 14 Dec 93 10:00:28 GMT

I also don't find fruit and meat together odd.  There are many 
family and/or cultural traditions about certain things going 
together naturally:  turkey and various forms of cranberry sauce,
pork (roast & chops) and applesauce, ham and (in my family)
pineapple, duck and orange sauce, lamb and mint jelly.  My 
father also put various jams (orange marmalade, most often) 
on omelettes.

Now, mincemeat pies, on the other hand, I can't abide.

Phyllis