Subject: Lobscouse, Need Recipes and Documentation

From: [email-masked] (Apple)
Date: 7 Jan 1994 08:39:54 -0500

If anyone couldhelp me on this, I'd appreciate it. I need some recipes and
historical documentation for a dish called *lobscouse*. What I know about it,
it is a dish made using ship's stores (preserved foods) on 18th -19th century
sailing ships. What I would like to find is:

1) A reference dating this meal to the 18th century, could be mentioned in a
book or something, book title and author would be great.

2) recipes for making it, which is basically how it was cooked, boiled? fried?
Which preserved foods were used? All of them?

Thanks for any help on this,

Tom Apple

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From: [email-masked] (Bill Silvert)
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 1994 12:10:13 GMT

>sailing ships. What I would like to find is:

I'm not sure of the spelling, but there is a traditional Norwegian dish
called, as best as I recall, Lobskaus.
-- 
William Silvert, Habitat Ecology Division, Bedford Inst. of Oceanography
P. O. Box 1006, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CANADA B2Y 4A2.  Tel. (902)426-1577
InterNet Address: [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Bill Silvert)
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 1994 15:09:50 GMT

Sorry, my spelling was wrong.  The Norwegian dish is called lapskaus,
and it is described in one book as a thick stew.  What I had in Bergen
last year was a platter with potato dumplings, sauerkraut, etc., along
with lamb.

The Swedes have a similar dish called lapskojs which is described in a
book of mine as lobscouse, so these are presumably all the same.  The
Swedish version is classified as a casserole.

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From: [email-masked] (Nick Maclaren)
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 1994 20:55:02 GMT

>Swedish version is classified as a casserole.

That figures.  Lobscouse comes from the north of England, and northern
English was originally a Scandinavian language (unlike southern English,
which was closer to Dutch).  The inhabitants of Liverpool are called
Scousers after a thick meat and vegetable mixture called scouse, which
I assume is the same.  Not being from that part of the world myself, I
cannot actually tell you how it is made ....

Nick Maclaren
University of Cambridge Computer Laboratory,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street,
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England.
Email:  [email-masked]
Tel.:   +44 223 334761
Fax:    +44 223 334679

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From: [email-masked] (Iain G Liddell)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 14:15:04 GMT

Yes, Labskaus etc. are of Scandi origin: the idea that Scousers from
Liverpool are so called after this dish is possible, but I don't think
it's absolutely certain.

Skipperslabskaus is often the only edible option in city-centre bars in
Denmark: there's a superb one just round the corner from the castle in
Kolding. Fritz Faist (Kogebog for en) has a recipe - I'll try posting it
tomorrow.

Iain

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From: [email-masked] (Walter Nelson)
Date: 10 Jan 1994 17:41:55 GMT

Apple ([email-masked]) wrote:
: If anyone couldhelp me on this, I'd appreciate it. I need some recipes and
: historical documentation for a dish called *lobscouse*. What I know about it,
: it is a dish made using ship's stores (preserved foods) on 18th -19th century
: sailing ships. What I would like to find is:

: 1) A reference dating this meal to the 18th century, could be mentioned in a
: book or something, book title and author would be great.

: 2) recipes for making it, which is basically how it was cooked, boiled? fried?
: Which preserved foods were used? All of them?

: Thanks for any help on this,
There are numerous Northern European Lobscouse delicacies, but as I
understand it, what went by this name on ship-board bore only coincidental
resemblance to what was being eaten on shore.

It was indeed prepared from ships stores, I believe primarily by boiling,
to make something of a stew.  Anything that was available would go into
this mixture, to include dried salt fish, pork or beef; sea bisquit;
potatoes etc.  Since it was an improvised dish, the exact recipe is a
function of the stores on hand and the tastes of the cook.  The results
would vary from extremely tasty to almost inedible (no ship-board rations
were ever completely inedible--you just had to be hungry enough).

To quote the old sea shanty line "It's eat or starve the old man said".

There was a similar improvised dish called "skilligee", which was prepared
by frying essentially the same stuff.

There was also a pudding dish called "Plum Duff", that was similiarly
improvised, the primary difference being a general lack of meat, the
addition of flour to make a dough, and who knows, maybe even some dried
fruit.

I have read references to these delicacies in books about 18th Century
ships, but all of the primary source reading I have done is 19th Century
(when these dishes were universal).  I think it is a pretty safe bet that
these were being eaten in the 18th Century though.

There were few graduates of Parisian cooking schools preparing food on
merchant ships and men-o-war in the "good old days".  I have never tried
Lobscouse, but I have had good luck with Skillagee.  Any recipe you devise
with the same general methods and materials that existed on old sailing
ships will be as valuable as any others.  Have fun, improvise, and remember
to leech off the salt on the salt meat and fish before tossing them into
the witch's brew.

                              Walter Nelson

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From: [email-masked] (Iain G Liddell)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 20:47:16 GMT

Well, I've checked my books and dictionaries about Labskaus (in all
its variant spellings): here goes.

Nick Maclaren quotes Oxford dictionary for Lobscouse --> Scouse (Liverpool):
my Chambers agrees, but rather grudgingly, I feel. Perhaps we can get an
answer from a real Liverpudlian (cop-out, I know).

Nika Hazelton's "Danish Cooking" (Penguin, 1967) has a recipe for
Skipperlabskous (Sailor's Stew) as follows:

  140 g    butter
  700 g    boneless beef/veal cut in 2cm cubes
    3      onions, chopped
  700 ml   ale
  700 ml   beef stock
   12      peppercorns
    2      bay leaves
    6      potatoes, peeled and cut in 1cm cubes
    1      large handful chopped chives

      Melt 50g butter in a pan: add meat and onions and cook till onions
      are translucent. Add beer, stock, alt, peppercorns and bay leaves.
      Simmer for 20 minutes: add potatoes.
      Simmer until meat is tender and potatoes have disintegrated into broth.
      (This takes up to 2 hours).
      Serve stew with a 15g knob of butter and a sprinkling of chives.

- - -  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Renate Kissel's "Delights of Scandinavian Cooking" (Anglo-Nordic, 1990)
has a Brun Lapskaus (Beef Scouse) from Norway, viz.:

     4x 175 g slices of rump steak
     salt, pepper
     2 onions
     2 carrots
     50g butter
     1 Tbs flour
     2 tsp mustard powder
     at least 500ml meat stock

     Salt and pepper the steaks. Slice onions and carrots into rings.
     Melt butter in frying pan and fry steak on both sides.
     Add onions and cook till translucent: add carrots.
     Dust with flour and mustard: stir in the stock.
     Cover and simmer for 35 minutes on low heat until meat is tender.

     Serve with cabbage and potatoes cooked in stock.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Thirdly, Elisabeth Luard's "European Peasant Cookery" (Corgi, 1988) 
has a discussion of "Labskova and Lobscouse", which she describes as
"universal fare in northern Europe".

     500 g   beef (e.g. brisket - cheap with plenty fat)
       1 kg  potatoes
      50 g   lard or beef dripping
     600 ml  stock or water
       1     bay leaf
	     salt, pepper

         Cut beef into 2cm cubes. Peel and cut potatoes likewise.
	 Melt fat in pan: brown meat. Add potatoes, then liquid.
	 Tuck in bay leaf: season with salt and pepper.
	 Cover tightly and simmer gently for 50 minutes.
	 Uncover, and turn heat up to reduce remaining liquid and
	 allow the rest to 'catch'.
	 Turn out and serve with a knob of cold butter on each serving.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

For me, I'd rank Hazelton above Luard above Kissel: the last seems less
likely to be trad shipboard food, and Hazelton has a much more interesting
recipe. I'd go with Luard and choose brisket, though.

I hope this helps.

Iain

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From: [email-masked] (Walter Nelson)
Date: 12 Jan 1994 17:36:48 GMT

Iain G Liddell ([email-masked]) wrote:

[much deleted]
--------------------------
: For me, I'd rank Hazelton above Luard above Kissel: the last seems less
: likely to be trad shipboard food, and Hazelton has a much more interesting
: recipe. I'd go with Luard and choose brisket, though.

If *I* had to eat it, I would choose brisket too.  I guess the
determining factor would be what you were planning to do with this
Lobscouse.  Are you intending to serve some fellow mariners authentic
fo'csle fair (i.e. common sailor's food) so that they can feel a true
connection with their ancestors by eating the same horrible crap they did,
or are you looking for a tasty dish with a nautical theme?

If you want to compromise, you could put together Loscouse a la
Quarterdeck (essentially any one of the above recipes).  The Captain and
the officers who shared his table ate comparatively well, and might even
expect stuff like chives in their Lobscouse.  Fresh meats for the
Captain's table would be rare but not unknown.  Many ships would have
chickens and pigs on board to feed the officers and passengers, and even
occasionally a goat or sheep.  A cow, however, from whom juicy brisket
could be gotten, would be a bit difficult to keep in the Ship's Boat.
Fresh fish, of course, would also be available.  Most meat and fish
however, on the captain's table and in the sailor's kid, was of the
preserved variety.

That Danish Skipperslapskaus has a good idea.  A sailor could never turn
down a dish that includes real booze.  On British men o' war, beer was
available early in a voyage, as was wine.  Since these didn't keep so well,
they would be finished early on, and the rest of the voyage would be fueled
on grog (Rum, Water and Mollasass).  Booze on ship board was rationed
pretty strictly, but the Captain, of course, could drink, or add to his
food, all he might want.

Bonne appetite maytee!

                              Walter Nelson

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From: [email-masked] (John E. Taylor III)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 07:14:11 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Walter Nelson)
wrote, in part:

> Fresh meats for the

Brisket aboard ship would normally have been corned, i.e., cured in salt to
where it was inedible to the spoilage bacteria and nearly so to people.
But it _was_ protein, and when the occasional fish was the alternative,
sailors ate it.

--
John Taylor
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (James Harvey)
Date: 14 Jan 94 20:25:31 -0500

> But it _was_ protein, and when the occasional fish was the alternative,

A couple of years ago I ran across an interesting (and humorous) collection
of anecdotes concerning the typical shipboard diet of the early nineteenth
century.  See the article about the origin of the term "Salt Horse" in

    Botkin, Benjamin Albert (ed).  _A Treasury of New England Folklore:
    Stories, Ballads, and Traditions of Yankee Folk"_.  New York: American
    Legacy Press, c1947, c1965, 1989 ed.

This is a standard folklore reference and should be available in most public
and university libraries.  Botkin gives the following reference as his source:

    Harlow, Frederick Pease.  _The Making of a Sailor: Sea Life Aboard
    a Yankee Square-Rigger_.  Publication Number Seventeen of The Marine
    Research Society, pp 147-149.  Salem, Massachusetts: The Marine
    Research Society, c1928.

I have the excerpt from Botkin online and will post it if there is interest...
--
James Harvey   [email-masked]   IUPUI OIT Technical Support/VMS/Unix/Networks
Disclaimer:  These are my own opinions.  I do not speak for Indiana University.