Subject: Re: Aztec Temple Feast

From: Carlos Abron
Date: 6 May 1994 09:19:32 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> Conrad Claus,
[email-masked] writes:
>Well, I cannot speak for "all the time" or even all the people.  Thus my 
>caveat.  However, whenever the US has had the power to annex or conquer 
>Mexico, the opportunity has been foregone.  Now I know it might be said 
>that it *couldn't* be accomplished, but I am not sure that is true.  
>Might have been more touble than it was worth, but any period after 
>around 1864 I think the US had the manpower and military/technological 
>ability to do so.  There just hasn't been a Mexican army that could have 
>resisted effectively.  However, most of the folks in the US have thought 
>of an annexation of Mexico as "buying" into Mexico's rather large 
>problems.  (If I remember correctly, this was one of the reasons Baja is 
>now part of Mexico.)  BTW - I am not trying to be inflammatory here,
just 
>speaking about realities. however unpleasant they may be.

  Sure. And Mexico was not robbed of 2 million square kilometers of ultra-
fertile land. Texas, California, Arizona, New Mexico, and parts of Utah,
Colorado and Nevada were just there for the fucking taking. Hell, gotta
write the SEP and ask them to correct all their goddamned history books.

  BTW, although I am perfectly aware of your expertise in the disciplines 
of history and sociology (among many others,) the United States and parts
of Canada are not the only countries in this continent whose official 
language is English. Another filthy example of total disrespect for
anyone living south of the Rio Bravo (oh!, pardon, "Rio Grande".)

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From: [email-masked] (Frank Kurucz)
Date: 6 May 1994 16:28:59 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, Carlos Abron writes:
.
.
stuff deleted
.
.
|>   Sure. And Mexico was not robbed of 2 million square kilometers of ultra-
|> fertile land. Texas, California, Arizona, New Mexico, and parts of Utah,
|> Colorado and Nevada were just there for the fucking taking. Hell, gotta
|> write the SEP and ask them to correct all their goddamned history books.
|> 
|>   BTW, although I am perfectly aware of your expertise in the disciplines 
|> of history and sociology (among many others,) the United States and parts
|> of Canada are not the only countries in this continent whose official 
|> language is English. Another filthy example of total disrespect for
|> anyone living south of the Rio Bravo (oh!, pardon, "Rio Grande".)

As a "gringo" that lived 12 years in Mexico City (age 9 to 21) I would
like to make an observation or two.

To this day Mexicans still feel great pain and resentment over the loss
of territory to the US. However, most Mexicans admire the US. They go
to college in the US (Like Carlos Abron). They go on vacations to the
US. They go on shopping junkets to the US. They buy vacation homes in
the US, etc.

The love-hate attitude they have is interesting (and understandable). It
is even reflected in humor. Example:

What was General Santa Anna's greatest mistake?

A: He only gave half of Mexico to the US.

Yes, Mexicans actually tell jokes like this, and yet, at the same time, they
can be as bitter as Carlos when it comes to the real annexation.

BTW, I always thought of the term "gringo" as being almost-affectionate. The
derogatory term was gabacho (gavacho?).

My 2 (viejos) pesos worth.

Frank Kurucz

P.S. (P.D.) By the way, I love Mexico very much.

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From: [email-masked] (Victor Martinez)
Date: 6 May 1994 19:19:13 GMT

>like to make an observation or two.

Then you must be a very Mexican gringo...!!!! :-)

>of territory to the US. However, most Mexicans admire the US. 

Agreed. Many (most?) Mexicans are 'malinchistas', that's a shameful and
undeniable fact. 

>They go

Mmmm..... What percentage of the population do you think can afford such
luxuries? 5%... maybe less...? 
I don't go to school in the US because it is the US, I go here because
I had the opportunity to attend a good school here. If I had the chance
to go to Europe instead I'd do it right the way. I'd rather be in Europe,
surrounded by a rich culture, plentiful of literature, platic arts, music,
etc., intead of being here surrounded by crime, hamburgers, ignorance, etc.

>A: He only gave half of Mexico to the US.

Never heard this one before.... it's not funny at all. :-(

>derogatory term was gabacho (gavacho?).

Isn't it a 'pocho' term? I've never used it.
I recall now something that a friend of mine, who is from Xalapa (Jalapa?)
likes to say to the 'regios' (people from Monterrey, NL):
	"You would love to become the 51st star in the US flag, wouldn't you?"
Most of them get offended, and let me tell you that Monterrey is a very
'agringada' city.

>My 2 (viejos) pesos worth.

My 5 cents worth (Mexican cents...)  

>P.S. (P.D.) By the way, I love Mexico very much.

So do I.

Best regards,

--
| Victor M. Martinez, Jr.            | InterNet:                        |
| Tulane University                  | [email-masked]      |
| School of Engineering              | [email-masked] |
| Department of Chemical Engineering | [email-masked]   |

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From: [email-masked] (Felipe De Jesus Salazar)
Date: 11 May 1994 09:30:49 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Frank Kurucz <[email-masked]> wrote:
>|>[[Stuff deleted about mexican land that was robbed by USA (Calif, 
>|>  Texas, etc]]
>
>[[ Stuff about Mexico's love-hate relationship with the US]]

>derogatory term was gabacho (gavacho?).

I know the origins for the term gringo has been discussed quite a bit-
Does anybody know where the term gabacho originated from??

Saludos,

Felipe