Subject: What foods contain casein??

From: [email-masked]
Date: 26 Jun 96 21:32:15 EST

Fellow netters,

I am currently researching some of the chemistry behind hot peppers.
I have become aware of the soothing effects of casein when suffering
>from  a 3-alarm (oral) fire casused by chile peppers.  The question I 
have is, What foods besides milk products contain casein?  I would especially
appreciate the names of any resources that would contain this info.

Thanks in advance,
John Laliberte
Starting chemistry teacher
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (James R. Eilers)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 12:07:43 GMT

>[email-masked]

Sorry I don't have time to give you diffinative references, but casein
is a <dairy> protein.  If found in foods other than dairy products,
it's there because the food was formulated with the addition of
casein-containing ingredients originally derived from milk.

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From: [email-masked] (Don Wiss)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 11:57:15 GMT

>appreciate the names of any resources that would contain this info.

Casein is a cow's milk protein, so all dairy products would have it. The
only dairy product that theoretically has none would be ghee. Also realize
that casein can also appear as caseinate on labels. No non-dairy products
would have it.

While this web page is opposite of what you're looking for, maybe you can
look at it backwards and find lists of foods that others are trying to
avoid:

  The No Milk Page:      http://www.panix.com/~nomilk/

Don.

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From: [email-masked] (Shankar Bhattacharyya)
Date: 28 Jun 1996 07:59:38 -0400

>appreciate the names of any resources that would contain this info.

Could you maybe share information on the soothing effect of casein?
Have you actually come across a source that specifically attributes
such an effect to casein?

The reason I ask is that my own suspicion is that the perceived
soothing effect of milk and yogurt is probably related more to the fat
than to the casein. I suspect that the fat partitions the capsaicin
out to some extent or at the very least dilutes the capsaicin that is
not already bound to receptors on the tongue.

I have no specific expertise on this; that's just a chemist's
speculation.

- Shankar

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From: Oz <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 16:32:15 +0100

In article <[email-masked]>, Shankar Bhattacharyya
<[email-masked]> writes
>I have no specific expertise on this; that's just a chemist's

I go for pH. Youghurt is about pH 4. Lemon juice works well also. When
seriously desperate my daughter will use vinegar. My wife, who is chilli
sensitive, agrees with the pH hypothesis via experience.

The fat content of yoghurt these days is minimal (UK).

Incidentally chillies in egg dishes are also deactivated. I find that I
need about 4x the amount of superhot Thai chilli sauce to make my chilli
omlets decently hot.

Once you get used to it (as a European) chillies seem to be rather
addictive. I now need a fix about once a week. Should it be taxed and
sufferers treated?

------------------------------- 
'Oz     "When I knew little, all was certain. The more I learnt,
        the less sure I was. Is this the uncertainty principle?"

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From: "Rafael Garcia" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 01:07:06 -0400

One more clue; whey, a common food additive, contains no caesein.  Casein
denatures and precipitates out of solution when milk is acidified, as in
cheesemaking.  They whey is whats left over.  I hope this helps.

-- 
Rafael Garcia
Cornell Food Safety Laboratory

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From: [email-masked] (Shankar Bhattacharyya)
Date: 30 Jun 1996 14:01:41 -0400

In article <[email-masked]>,

>sensitive, agrees with the pH hypothesis via experience.

I agree that acidity is likely to have an effect. After all capsaicin
is a phenol. A priori you would expect pH to affect things, though a
priori isn't established fact.

Also, it could be acting on the receptors, not on the capsaicin, of
course.

But I also think that fat matters. Capsaicin partitions out from water
to non-polar solvents in some overwhelming ratio. I expect that the
actual solubility in things like pet ether is not high but we are not
talking about very much capsaicin in most situations.

>The fat content of yoghurt these days is minimal (UK).

In the US you get yogurt in all sorts of fat levels, from the 3.5% of
whole cow's milk down to the essentially none in skim milk.

>need about 4x the amount of superhot Thai chilli sauce to make my chilli

My theory would be that you have the capsaicin partitioned out into
the fat and then trapped in the semi-emulsified-fat denatured-protein
matrix of the egg.

OK, so I have a bee in my bonnet about the fat.

- Shankar

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From: [email-masked] (Rachel)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 20:03:42 LOCAL

In article <[email-masked]> Oz <[email-masked]> writes:
>From: Oz <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Re: What foods contain casein??
>Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 16:32:15 +0100

>sensitive, agrees with the pH hypothesis via experience.

But milk is is pH 6 to 7 and most pepper dishes are acidic so acidification 
is probably not the mechanism.  

I think the it is competive, the proteins are binding more effectively to the 
receptors/mucosal lining than the pepper displacing the pepper and/or 
preventing the pepper from reaching the receptors.

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From: Richard Burr <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 14:15:35 -0700

Both casein and whey are groups of dairy proteins, casein being the 
major protein at 80% of the total protein content of milk. Commercial 
casein is made by two methods - precipitation by acid (usually lactic or 
sulphuric) or coagulation by rennet. For acid casein the milk is 
acidified to the iso-electric point of casein, about pH 4.6, at which 
stage the casein coagulate and precipitate.

Casein is found in milk, cheese and a range of prepared foods such as 
processed cheeses, non-dairy whiteners, emulsifier in cured meats.

Hope this helps

Grant Boston
New Zealand Dairy Research Institute

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From: [email-masked] (Pedro Mendes)
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 17:11:07 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] 
says...

>addictive. I now need a fix about once a week. Should it be taxed and

I think the same applies people living in other continents :)
Seriously, it is a drug like any other (alcohol, cocaine, etc.) in the sense 
that it is addictive. It is also addictive via two mechanisms: a biochemical 
one and a psychological one. I suspect that the biochemical bit is due to 
some substance in chillies (and other hot spices) causing secretion of 
endorphins (natural opiate-like brain substances).

Never mind, as long as it is legal you'll never be forced into crime to obtain 
money to buy your (then quite expensive) weekly fix.

If you decide that you want to come off the stuff, then you might need some 
treatment due to the psychological addiction. (those tacos tempting you, etc.)

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From: "Rafael Garcia" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 10:30:12 -0400

> endorphins (natural opiate-like brain substances).
	I have no detailed hypothesis to offer, but I once worked on an
experimental farm where chilies were bred to create new varieties.  I had
opportunities to sample may of these chilies and sauces made from them.  I
experienced a "chili buzz" many times.  Strangely, the strongest buzz came
>from  a sauce that was not particularly hot.  Could the buzz come from a
substance in chilies which is unrelated to their heat?  Has anyone had a
similar experience?

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From: Oz <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 15:54:34 +0100

In article <[email-masked]>, Rachel
<[email-masked]> writes
>But milk is is pH 6 to 7 

So? My observation is that milk has little effect. My family tried this
too.

>and most pepper dishes are acidic so acidification 

Eh? Well chutneys are acidic, but have you seen the AMOUNT of chillies
that goes into them? Otherwise not much acid added to most Indian dishes
I know about, and Thai's don't even use lemon but lemon grass. So I
cannot agree that most chillied dishes are very acidic, if at all.

>preventing the pepper from reaching the receptors.

In which case why does lemon juice seem to be so effective? Not much
protein in lemon juice.

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From: Oz <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 16:00:38 +0100

In article <[email-masked]>, Rafael
Garcia <[email-masked]> writes
>substance in chilies which is unrelated to their heat?  Has anyone had a

See. I said they were a hazardous drug!   :-)

All you have to do is to breed that chilli type and your fortune will be
made.  :-)

Actually there has been a long-standing discussion on another group
about phytotoxins. There is a problem that so little is known about the
natural toxins in the food we eat, yet we eat huge quantities of them.
In fact vast quantities compared to the minute traces of pesticide
residues that many people get agitated about. The problem with
physiologically significant phytoestrogens in soy is probably just the
tip of the iceberg.

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From: [email-masked] (Shankar Bhattacharyya)
Date: 31 Aug 1996 23:14:26 -0400

In article <[email-masked]>,
Merete Askim  <[email-masked]> wrote:

>Casein is a protein in milk. there are insignificance differenceses in 
>the casein form cow, goat, human,,,,, 

Just by the way, there are some interesting and useful differences.

US Customs levies different rates of customs duty on imported cheeses,
depending what kind of milk they are made from. Cow's milk cheese is
taxed most heavily, so importers have some incentive to declare their
imports to be made from something else. A lot of imported cheese gets
tested for species.

Historically this has been done by looking at the fatty acid profile
of the fatty acid methyl esters. However, this is tricky to interpret,
particularly for low levels of components in cheeses made from blends
and so on.

Relatively recently, in the last two years or so, a guy in italy has
been developing very nifty electrophoretic techniques using
isoelectric focussing techniques to separate the components of casein
>from  different species, a technique which seems very promising for
this purpose. The casein from goats and sheep is identical, so you
can't tell that difference and have to use fatty acid profiles for
that. However, for the other kinds of milk the distinction is really
easy to see. Certainly in the American context, where the principal
issue is whether cow's milk cheeses are being imported as something
else, the technique works very well.

I don't know enough about electrophoretic techniques to provide
details. I did see a demonstration once. It was quite impressive as an
analytical technique.

- Shankar