Subject: Sourdough FAQ 2/2

From: [email-masked] (Wolf)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 09:42:06 PST

in a large mixing bowl and mix briefly.
3.	Add most of the flour and mix well.  Add flour until too stiff
	to mix by hand.  Then turn onto a floured table and knead in
	the remaining flour until satiny.  (I knead about 15 min.)
4.	I have made loaves in regular bread pans and also laid loaves
	on a greased baking sheet.  If you use the baking sheet I think
	the loaf needs to be stiffer.  Proof at 85 deg F for 2 or 3
	hours.
5.	Bake at 350 deg. F. for about 40 minutes.  Cool on a wire rack.
6.	I find that the slicing properties improve after the bread has
	a chance to sit and gel for a day or two.  I slice the bread
	very thinly, about 3/16 of an inch thick.  The bread could
	be sliced thinner but my shaky hands can't manage it. 

>From: [email-masked] (Darin Wilkins)

Recently a local newspaper's food section had an article about sourdough
bread starters that might be of general interest.  My summary follows:

In the mid 80's a pathologist, Dr. Ed Wood, held a position in Saudi
Arabia.  Wood is an avid bread maker and, realizing he was in the
birthplace of bread, explored local bakeries in his spare time.  In
particular, he searched for sourdough cultures that had been passed
down from the beginning of civilization.  He persuaded local bakers to
part with some of their historical starters and took them home to
Cascade, Idaho.  There he dried the starters to a form that allows them
to be reconstituted with the addition of warm water and flour.  He also
subjected sourdough starters from other parts of the world to the same
treatment.  His collection now includes bread starters from 8 regions:
the Yukon, San Francisco, France, Austria, Egypt, Bahrain, Saudi
Arabia, and Russia.

Each starter imparts a unique flavor or texture to bread.  French
sourdough is mild, but rises well.  Bahrain sourdough is one of the
most sour, while Yukon sourdough is moderately sour.  He says the Saudi
sourdough has the most distinctive flavor and the most overrated is
>from  San Francisco (!).  He calls the Russian starter his most
aggressive starter, able to handle heavy doughs.

He has started a business selling the starters, which may be ordered by
credit card at 208-382-4828.  They cost US $10.50 each.  Also, they can be 
ordered by sending check or money order to:

                   Sourdoughs International
                   PO Box 1440
                   Cascade, ID 83611.

In addition Wood wrote a cookbook, _World Sourdoughs From Antiquity_
(Sinclair Publishing, $23.50), which includes 137 recipes for sourdough
baked goods.  The book, which comes with a free starter of your choice, 
may be ordered with a credit card at 800-888-9567.  (or at the previous
number.  This is the number for Sinclair Publishing.  The previous number
is the number for Sourdoughs International.)  

<David Adams inserts the note:
The prices mentioned here are new.  They now include shipping and handeling
for U.S. customers.  (The $23.50 for the book includes shipping &handeling
4th class postage.  The $10.50 for the cultures includes shipping & handeling
priority mail.  I got my book and first culture in two days.)  Shipping and
haneling for non U.S. customers may be slightly higher.>
<David Adams inserts the updated note (Nov 1992):  Sinclair publishing is
out of business and at the present _World Sourdoughs From Antiquity_ is
out of print.  Hopefully there will be another eddition soon?>

<David Adams inserts a later note:  The book is out of print at present.  
We do not know when it will be in print again, but we hope it is soon.

Insert standard disclaimer here.

The article included Wood's recipe for a Saudi flat bread that resembles
a thin crust pizza.  The recipe calls for Wood's Saudi starter, but you
may substitute any unsweetened sourdough starter.

Seasoned Flat Bread (makes 6 flat breads)

2 C unsweetened sourdough starter
1 1/2 tsp salt
1 Tbl sugar
2 Tbl vegetable oil
2 1/2 C all-purpose flour, or as needed
olive oil

Add salt, sugar and vegetable oil to starter.  Mix thoroughly.
Incorporate flour slowly into mixture until stiff.  Turn onto floured
board and knead in additional flour as necessary until dough is satiny.

Divide dough into 6 equal parts and shape into balls.  Flatten by hand
and place on a lightly floured cloth.  Cover and let rise 30 min.

Two cooking methods are offered:

1.  Preheat oven to 500 F.
    Transfer breads to a baking sheet or stone.  Brush with olive
    oil.  Top with sliced mozzarella cheese, tomato slices, or other
    vegetables.  Bake 10 min or until bread is browned and cheese
    is bubbling.

2.  Brush the bread with olive oil, season with herbs, and cook
    on a preheated griddle.

From: [email-masked] (Tony Rossini)

So here is the first "recipe".  It is probably better suited for those
who've made bread before:

Dump out 1 cup starter (or more, if you've got it and want more) into a
mixing bowl.  Add enough flour so that the mixture is thick and *soupy*; you
don't want it to congeal into a lump.  If you added too much flour, mix in a
little bit of water, trickling it in SLOWLY.  

This is the sponge, let it sit for about 24 hours.

Dump in salt to your liking (I think 1 tbsp is fine, more/less depending on
personal opinions).  While stirring, slowly add flour until it pulls away
>from  the sides.  At this point, flour a counter (make a mess!) and dump it
out and knead.  Many ways to knead, many books with advice. 99% of the
methods work, so I'll not go into mine.  After 5-10 minutes of kneading, or
until it feels right (at this point it is like making regular bread!), form
the dough into a circle, oil it, and put it into a clean bowl (maybe the
same one) to rise.  This will take 4-5 hours (starter is a pretty slow
yeast, at least the strain I've got).  Punch down, knead a bit, let rest for
10 minutes, and form loaves or put into a bread pan.  I've found that
oiling/buttering/whatever even the non-stick types really will make a
difference.  Cook for 10-30 minutes, or until it looks good.  Or until you
can't wait (I've never minded eating "rare" bread dough!). 

Cool (or not), and eat.

Yum.

I'm sorry that I don't have any recipes for making starter; that seems to be
a touch and go process...

enjoy!
-tony
--
Anthony Rossini       -       [email-masked]
Department of Biostatistics, Harvard School of Public Health
677 Huntington Ave, Boston MA 02115  617-432-1056

To make a tangy sourdough bread, you have to let it sit for a long time.
When I made some sourdough French bread, a couple of weeks ago, I
started the dough early in the morning, adding most of the flour and all
the water it was going to need.  By the time it went into the oven, it
was pleasantly tangy.  If I had wanted even more flavour, I would have
started it the night before.  The longer it sits, the more flavor it
will gain.

Sourdough French Bread  (adapted from the Sourdough Jack's Cookbook)

1 cup sourdough starter         2 t sugar
1 1/2 c warm water              2 t salt
1 package yeast                 1/2 t soda
4 c flour                       2 c flour (for kneading)

If you are going to start this bread the evening before or early in the
morning, you won't need the extra yeast.  If you start it 3 hours before
dinner, you will need it.  Put the starter, water, and flour in a bowl.
Put this in a warm place and ignore it for the rest of the day.  By
evening, it should have doubled and smell like your starter again.  Mix
the sugar, salt, soda and 1 cup of flour together.  Sprinkle them over
the dough, and mix well.  Turn the dough out onto your bread board and
knead it, using the remaining flour.  

Shape loaves and place them on lightly greased cookie sheets.  Let rise
until doubled in bulk, slash tops of loaves, brush them with water or a
well-beaten egg, and place in 400 F oven.  (A pan of water on lower
shelf of the oven can help make a crispy crust.)  Bake until medium dark
brown.

Lynn

>From: [email-masked] (Phil OKunewick)

Someone else wrote:

>>But more to the point: how do you post a starter recipe?...
>
>        So what you're saying is that this ever-so-special culture has to
>be obtained from some Merlin-like individual, and cannot be "started" by
>combining the ingredients in a RECIPE and letting the microbes take it from
>there?

   GOLDRUSH Sourdough says that people can mix potato water or milk
with flour, then let it stand for several days.  After that, discard
the mixture, because that foul-smelling swamp muck is nothing you
would want in your kitchen, much less in your bread dough.

   But seriously, contact:

Gold Rush Sourdough Company, Inc. 
122 E. Grand Ave
SO. San Fransisco, CA 94080

   They sell supplies, cookbooks, and dry yeast "seed" packets waiting
to be made into an active yeast culture.  It's not the best sourdough
I've ever tasted, but it's the best I've tasted east of the Sierra
Nevadas.  I think I read somewhere that it's descended from beer
yeast.

   I recommend ordering the Junior Baking Kit (around $8 in 1986) and
the book, "Adventures in Sourdough Cooking and Baking" ($8).  A
sourdough packet, which is the Junior kit without the storage pot,
costs around $2.25.

   These prices were at Knotts Berry Farm over the past few years;
your mileage may vary.

   You might also ask around your friends.  You'll be amazed how many
people keep a yeast culture in the back of their refrigerator.

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with Goldrush; I simply bought my
starter from them and have been happy with it ever since.

>From: [email-masked] (Phil OKunewick)
Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
Subject: Re: Sourdough Starter

[email-masked] (Joe Kiniry) writes:
>
>Earlier I asked for someone to give me the ingredients for a Sourdough
>Starter, but I was told the only way to do it is to buy it.  Snooping
>around I found this in _Rival Crock-Pot Cooking_:
>
>Sourdough Starter               
>1 package active dry yeast...
>
>Did anyone ever try to do this starter?  Any comments anyone?

   I've never tried a recipie like this, but it sounds like you're
making an active wet culture of the same yeast you get in the packets.
It'd be fine for bread making, but I don't think you'll get the really
tangy flavor characteristic of sourdough.

   But since it's exposed to air, you'll get other nasties in there
besides the descendants of the dry yeast.  Hopefully you'll get more
tasty nasties than putrid ones, which makes for good bread.

   You can recognize a good culture by the smell - if the culture
smells good, the bread will taste good.  The bad nasties often don't
breed as fast as the good nasties, so even if the culture smells bad
the bread might come out good.  Baking the bread should be enough to
kill all the nasties, so you don't wind up proofing more starter in
your gut.

   BTW - IDEAL PROOFING FOR A STARTER BATCH: Proof it on top of your
refrigerator, at 85 degrees.  95 degrees or more will probably kill
it; be patient.  If you are happy with previous loaves made from this
culture, cover the bowl with plastic wrap to keep out other nasties.
Normal proofing time for a lively culture is around 8 hours, but this
can vary - a _lot_.  A sudsy foam will form on top after several hours
(or a couple days); soon as the foam starts to settle down, the
starter is ready.  If you don't get the foam after about 4 days, throw
away all but one cup and try again.

   Once your culture is going nicely, feed it only flour and water
(preferrably distilled).  Anything else may kill it.  You can add
other stuff to your bread mix after returning a cup of starter to your
storage container.

>From: [email-masked] (Dick Dunn)
Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
Subject: Re: Sourdough  (ya gotta have culchah)

  [The problems of a starter recipe, given that sourdough really wants a
  culture of particular yeast and particular bacteria]

>         So what you're saying is that this ever-so-special culture has to
> be obtained from some Merlin-like individual, and cannot be "started" by
> combining the ingredients in a RECIPE and letting the microbes take it from
> there?

Where do the microbes come from???  The rest of the "recipe" is trivial--
all you really need is flour and water.  It's the particular yeast and
bacteria that will give you a good sourdough _versus_ a nondescript,
slightly-sour yeast culture _versus_ a means for rotting wet flour.

Maybe you've got the right stuff in the air where you are; maybe not.  If
so, it's trivial; if not, a recipe won't help.
-- 
Dick Dunn     [email-masked] -or- ico!rcd       Boulder, CO   (303)449-2870
   ...If you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind.