Subject: Re: Knives for Wilderness

From: [email-masked] (John F. Fogh)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 04:56:19 GMT

I have three knives that I swear by: 

 Spyderco Endura Clipit. Perfect for cutting army greenline, and small 
general purpose chores. 

 Leatherman tool. The ultimate gadget knife. I have heard good things 
about the SOG and the Gerber, but Gerber lost me with all the funky 
little screw driver bits. 

 Randall Model-1 7". This is my "combat" knife. This is what I carry to 
the field. I don't agree with the "Expensive = Useless" theory. I paid 
$250 bucks for this knife and I have used a lot. 

Knives are special purpose tools. If you need to pound tent stakes get a 
hammer, if you need to chop wood get an axe, if you need to clear brush 
get a machette. In a pinch you can use a knife for these tasks, but I 
wouldn't make a habit out of it.
      
                                     - John

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From: [email-masked] (John F. Fogh)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 04:56:19 GMT

- John

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From: [email-masked] (Bob Cathar)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 00:39:39 GMT

I have the carbon steel Marine Kbar too. Great knife! I'll be taking 
it along with me.

But those who want to "survive *and* thrive" probably wouldn't care
to use such a knife for all their food-prep needs. Here's the "best"
bet for that.

Get a Chinese cook's knife at an asian grocery, etc. Mine weighs
6.5 oz. and has a 4.25" wooden round handle. The blade measures
1.75" x 8" and yes, it's carbon steel. There are cool chinese
characters stamped into the blade too--just the accessory for your
sks or ak.

This knife wouldn't be good for dressing game, but for chopping and
slicing meat and vegetables you can't beat it. You hold it in the
hand with the round handle in your palm and the back of the blade
resting against your curled middle finger. The thumb and first finger
grip the sides of the *rectangular* blade (don't hold it only by
the handle).

Cost? 6-10 dollars. a few years back. There are different sizes.
the carbon steel models maybe cheaper now that everyone has got
the stainless bug. This is a fine tool. Probably a wicked 
slasher-weapon to boot :)

-- 
--Bob   "Don't Tread On Me"

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From: [email-masked] (John F. Fogh)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 04:56:19 GMT

- John

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From: [email-masked] (Robert Allen)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 17:40:31 GMT

In article [email-masked], [email-masked] (Joe Bushong) writes:
+John F. Fogh ([email-masked]) wrote:
+: I have three knives that I swear by: 
+
+:  Spyderco Endura Clipit. Perfect for cutting army greenline, and small 
+: general purpose chores. 

I carry this at all  times  in urban settings, but in  wilderness
settings  I found  the non-serrated  swiss army knives more  useful.
Since I carry an 8" sheath knife  in the wilderness having thy
spyderco & swiss  army  both is overkill.

+
+:  Leatherman tool. The ultimate gadget knife. I have heard good things 
+: about the SOG and the Gerber, but Gerber lost me with all the funky 
+: little screw driver bits. 

I find  this tool very useful in urban settings, but  nearly useless
in  the  wilderness  conpared  with my Swiss  Army Super Tinker.

+
+:  Randall Model-1 7". This is my "combat" knife. This is what I carry to 
+: the field. I don't agree with the "Expensive = Useless" theory. I paid 
+: $250 bucks for this knife and I have used a lot. 
+
+I never equated expensive with useless...(Did I???). I have nothing 
+against buying top of the line gear when it is markedly better that 
+everything else available. All that I said was:
+
+Is there anything that your $250 Randall made knife can do better than my 
+$50 Cold Steel SRK?

Yes.  The Randall is hot-forged carbon  steel,  with the edge packed.
This results  in a tougher knife, by  which I  mean it will bend, but
not break, and the  edges are less prone  to  chipping  out. A bent
knife is still useful, but  a broken knife is  not.  The  randalls
typically have better grips and balance than factory knifes, although
the factories  are slowly learning.  My biggest  gripe against Randalls
is  that all the bowie patterns are saber  ground, not  flat  ground,
so  they aren't as sharp as they could  be for the blade size.  I had
a #1 which was beautiful, but it was not as sharp or as tough as the
Fisk  bowie I now carry. Of course it was about half the price too.

In terms  of cheaper  knives which have  the  features  I like in
expensive custom knives,  here  are a few knives I've seen that
I liked:

Moran-Warner Rio Grande bowie - spear point, flat ground,  carbon
	steel  bowie.  Discontinued, but very nice.

SOG Tigershark bowie - a large  bladed, flat ground, rolled edge
	knife, with almost acceptable  balance.

"Arkansas bowie" - by BlackJack, this was advertised  but I've heard
	it  had problems, or the company had  problems, and it  was
	never  released.  It was a 7"  bladed flat ground  bowie
	designed by master  bladesmith James  Crowell.

Cold Steel  Trailmaster bowie  - way too heavy  and  large, but  the
	early  models were  extremely sharp and tough.  Still, this
	design is what  a bowie should be, albeit in oversized  form.

---
Robert Allen, [email-masked]

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and
	do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.

    The Constitution of the United States: R.I.P, 8/26/94

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From: [email-masked] (Joe Talmadge)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 22:09:18 GMT

Robert Allen ([email-masked]) wrote:
> [email-masked] (Joe Bushong) writes:

> Fisk  bowie I now carry. Of course it was about half the price too.

In addition, just pick up a Randall in one hand and the SRK in the
other, and your questions will be answered immediately.  Don't get me
wrong, the SRK is a great knife: inexpensive, strong, sticky handle,
sharp.  In fact, I own an SRK.  But the Randall just *feels* like it's
in another league, even before you even cut with it.  The Randall just
_wants_ to cut -- this is hard to describe, you just have to handle
it.  In any situation where I needed a lot of cutting power along with
lots of speed & quickness, there's no doubt which I'd choose.

My Gryphon M30A1 feels the same way compared to the SRK.

Joe
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (John F. Fogh)
Date: 20 Sep 1994 05:11:45 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,

>Is there anything that your $250 Randall made knife can do better than my 
>$50 Cold Steel SRK?
>
>I am not trying to get into a "My knife is better" argument. Whatever 
>works for you and you can afford, heh - I'm happy for you. I think 
>everyone should have at least a couple of things which they are 
>completely happy with...mine are my knives...
>

I have a cold steel recon tanto as well, and I like it very much. However 
the SRK and the Tanto both lack a guard. This might not seem important, 
but it gives you better control over the knife and margin of safety. It's 
largely a matter of preference. I also did not like the material that the 
grip is made of. Once again a mater of preference. I expect to have and 
carry my randall for the rest of my life, I would not expect an SRK to last.

                                       - John

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From: [email-masked] (John F. Fogh)
Date: 20 Sep 1994 05:22:32 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
>
>>I don't agree with the "Expensive = Useless" theory.
>
>What I said was "the more you pay for a knife, the less you will use it".
>
>Obviously, this is a generalization.  If you're one of the few and
>studdly that actually put a Randall to work, than my little "law of knife
>selection" certainly doesn't apply to you.
>
>Greg
>

I understand. Frequently Expensive does equal useless. If my randall was 
up on the mantle instead of on my web gear it would be useless. Anyone 
who has bought an expensive, quality knife and doesn't want to put it to 
work let me ask you this: How much is your life worth? If I am in a 
survival situation I think want the best tools I can afford. I'd feel 
pretty silly suffering because I brought a $14 dollar knife that wasn't 
up to the task while leaving the $200 life saver at home.

                          - John

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From: [email-masked] (John F. Fogh)
Date: 21 Sep 1994 06:50:50 GMT

>I  have a CS  Master Tanto, from the Japanese manufacturing run.  I
>used  it in the field briefly, where it was marginally satisfactory
>as a tool, until  I chipped  the edge badly and had  to send  it back
>to get it sharpened.  The first time it came back it was not factory
>sharp, so  I called CS and complained.  They had me send it to the
>main office, and Jody Sampson  personally sharpened and buffed it back
>to a razor  edge.  Since that time I haven't cut anything  with it, since
>I don't  want to chip it again.  It's good soley as a martial  arts
>knife, and even  for that the highly polished  edge won't  bite into
>a leather  jacket or denim as well  as a my home-sharpened carbon steel
>knives.
>

I really like my Recon Tanto, and it's a damn good field knife (I prefer 
the Randall for it's length, and guard in jungle, dense brush, etc) in 
desert/plains environments. I would never try to put a razors edge on the 
blade, even for use as a weapon. Most knives don't have the leverage to 
make a good slashing weapon, so I wouldn't destroy a tool by making it 
too sharp. Yes you can do that. If you can shave with your I bet it cuts 
the first couple of logs really well, but after 20 or so you might want 
to rethink that.

                               - John