Subject: Re: Knives for Wilderness

From: [email-masked] (Robert Allen)
Date: 16 Sep 1994 17:25:05 GMT

In article [email-masked], [email-masked] (Gary Trubin) writes:
>I am going to be attending a Gun Show in SF Cow Palace next weekend. Can 
>anyone suggest good quality knives for: multipurpose camping, survival, 
>hunting, throa...oops let that one slip by me.
>The knives don't have to have all of the characteristics. These could be 
>separate knives.
>At the last show I saw a realy nice one, it had a nylon chord wrapped 
>handle, the guard was detachable so it could be used on a stick.

Buying knives  is a very hard proposition.  When I go backpacking
I carry a Swiss Army Super Tinker, and a 7" bladed custom made  bowie
knife.

If you want a big  knife,  get one  that's completely flat ground,
and  which has a balance forward of the guard.  This will allow
you to  chop.  The Cold  Steel  Trailmaster bowie is a good  example,
except that it's very prone to rust, and is heavier/thicker than you
really need.  But once you've seen one  you'll understand what a
flat ground blade is, and you'll know how  to evaluate other  knives.

The  USMC fighting knife (aka. KaBar) is  another good knife, when
properly sharpened, but it's  not  very useful for chopping.  It's
a good car/pack knife however since it's cheap, will hold an edge
well, is more easily re-sharpened than a stainless  steel  knife,
and it's reliable.

A really great knife  was  the Moran-Warner Rio Grande  bowie.  This
was a fully flat ground, carbon  steel blade.  It had all the earmarks
of a  superb  chopper.  Unfortunately it was discontinued,  but you still
see them at  gun shows.  They sold for  about $100.00.

---
Robert Allen, [email-masked]

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and
	do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.

    The Constitution of the United States: R.I.P, 8/26/94

---

From: [email-masked] (131E50000-HolderR(DR2688)300)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 19:34:01 GMT

The best all purpose "knife" I ever had was the Leatherman tool.
This had a 3" knife (good for many camping chores, but not all), a can
opener, phillips screwdriver and two flat head screwdrivers, a file and
a few other attachments.  The whole thing unfolds into a pair of pliers/
wire cutters, and on the spine is a ruler that (while being a bit hard
to read in certain light conditions) had both inches and centimeters.

It was the most useful tool I ever had and I always had it with me.
But I was working on my car in the twilight one evening, and I didn't
notice it sitting on the bumper in the low light as I cleaned up my
other tools.  Either someone took it that night or the next morning,
or it fell off the bumper the next time I drove the car!  Bummer.

To replace it, some friends bought me a similiar "multi-tool" from SOG.
What appealed to me about this tool was that the pliers didn't have the
edges facing my palms like the leatherman tool did.  The leatherman tool
can really leave some deep red marks on your palms when you use those
pliers!  But once I actually tried using the SOG tool, I realized what
a pain in the butt it is to unfold and use.  I don't like the SOG tool.

Gerber also has one, with spring loaded pliers.  It also looks like a
hassle to operate.  Stick with the leatherman tool, I swear by 'em.  Life-
time guarantee too!  And they can be had for a little as $35.  I'm
gonna have to pick another one up somewhere.  If you wear it on your
belt, you'll be amazed how often you use it.  Just keep a rag handy to
wrap around the handles when you need the pliers!

rdh

---

From: [email-masked] (Joe Talmadge)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 22:04:01 GMT

> hassle to operate.  Stick with the leatherman tool, I swear by 'em.  Life-

The Gerber is nowhere near the pain-in-the-ass that the SOG is.  In
fact, it is less of a hassle to operate than even the Leatherman.

Basically, the Gerber is stronger than the Leatherman, doesn't hurt
your hand when using the pliers, and has a standard plier head.  The
Leatherman is lighter but has needle-nose pliers.  Either is a good
choice, but don't be scared off by Gerber's mechanism -- it's not like
the SOG.

Joe
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Marlo Brown)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 16:23:26 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Gary Trubin) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (Gary Trubin)
>Subject: Knives for Wilderness
>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 07:15:22 GMT
>Thanks
> - Gary -

I thought I'd list a few favorites:

-Leatherman Tool ($35-50) - an excellent all purpose tool.  It's essentially 
a pair of folding stainless steel pliers with a knife blade, file, awl and 
several screwdriver blades in the handles.  It's sturdy, well made and 
extremely functional.  The special design lets you "lock" any tool in the 
open position by closing the handles.  As long as you grip to tool, the 
blade can't close on your hand.  Comes in a very small, sturdy leather belt 
case.

-Spyderco lightweight folders ($30-60) The Delica, Endura, Rescue and Merlin 
are lightweight folders with G2 stainless blades and Zytel handles.  They 
come with pocket clips and are made for one-handed opening/closing.  The 
serrated models cut like there's no tomorrow.  Eric Remmen up in the Seattle 
area teaches a course in defending oneself with the Delica.  I haven't taken 
the course but think the Delica would be useful to a trained individual.  
These knives are *much* sturdier than their looks suggest.

-Gerber LST ($16-25) LST stands for light, smooth, tough.  These little 
folders are simply, in my opinion, the best single-blade pocketknives in 
their class.  Too small for the fast draw/open of a Spyderco, but extremely 
useful as an everyday tool.  I've heard of Special Forces types sewing a 
small pocket on their fatigues to carry LSTs.  One of the best knives for 
this price on the market.  I bought mine in 1986 onboard the USS TARAWA 
and love it.  I understand the new ones feature a pocket clip similar to 
Spyderco's.

-Ontario Knife Co. machetes ($12-20) - The 18" blade model used by the 
military is a good choice.  There are also some models put out by Blackie 
Collins featuring plastic "D" handles and Ontario blades.  Blade lengths 
range from 12" to 22".  The grip of the "D" handle was too big for my hand, 
so I converted the 12" Blackie Collins to an 11" machete with a linen 
micarta handle, homemade steel rivets in the handle and a plastic scabbard.  
Machetes are very useful for a big, rough outdoor knife.  With their low 
cost, you won't be afraid to actually *use* the tool.  Tramontino of Brasil 
also makes decent blades at very low prices.

-Fighting knives?  It would take too long to discuss this topic in this 
message.  My personal fighter was made from a German military blade.  I 
silver-soldered the guard, fitted it with a Pakkawood handle and made a 
synthetic scabbard of plastic.  It suits me, but this is such a personal 
subject that there are *lots* of different opinions out there.

You'll notice there are no custom knives in the list above.  I think that 
much of the custom work coming from people like Ken Largin, Randall, Emerson 
and others are excellent and exceed the quality of the blades listed above 
by a good margin.  I like low-cost knives, however, because I can buy more 
than one, leave them in my pack, in the car and in other places and not 
worry too much about them.  I'm not afraid to use them, as I can replace 
them if something happens to them.  In this way, at least I *know* the 
capabilities of my blades and will have them with me if I ever need them.

Marlo

---

From: [email-masked] (David C. Lewis)
Date: 16 Sep 1994 22:09:47 GMT

Gary Trubin ([email-masked]) wrote:
: I am going to be attending a Gun Show in SF Cow Palace next weekend. Can 
: anyone suggest good quality knives for: multipurpose camping, survival, 
: hunting, throa...oops let that one slip by me.
: The knives don't have to have all of the characteristics. These could be 
: separate knives.
: At the last show I saw a realy nice one, it had a nylon chord wrapped 
: handle, the guard was detachable so it could be used on a stick.
: Thanks
:  - Gary -
: -- 
: --------------------------------------------------------------------
: - US Congress regarding its constituency ... or was it Roger Waters? 
: - "if I had my way
:    I'd have all of them SHOT!"    
: ====================================================================

	Well, heres my two cents,  avoid knives with hollow handles (too
fragile, and more for people who wear camoflage to the grocery store.)  Be
careful about knives with a saw edge on the back, most of the saws aren't
effective and weaken the blade (the USAF survival knife is one exception,
the notches of the saw aren't very deep and don't really weaken the blade
much.)

	For the blade itself think about a down-swept point (i.e., not a
bowie knife) as they are easier to skin animals with.  A good length would
be about 5 inches although the longer the blade the longer it will stay
sharp.  As for the material a good stainless steel like 440-C, ATS-34,
etc., would make a good knife.  The hardness of a blade is usually
measured on the Rockwell C scale, 60 is increadibly hard to sharpen but
can last a long time, a hardness in the mid to low 50's is probably more
appropriate as knives can be more readily sharpened with just hand tools. 
If a person does buy a serated edge knife they ought to be sure that they
know how to resharpen it when it finally does go dull.

	The handle shouldn't be made out of antler or bone (too easy to
break).  Material like Packa Wood or Micarta is good.  I have heard of
leather washer handles rotting when wet, but I have one that has yet to
rot that has been wet more than once.  A guard is optional, a well
designed knife might not need one.  The knife should have a full tang,
hidden tang knives can be strong but are usually weak because they can hide
poor workmanship.

	Some brands to consider would be custom (if one can afford it), or
Buck, Gerber, and Ka-Bar.  Of course there are some other good knife
companies that I've probably left out.  And don't forget pocket knives, a
Swiss Army knife (Victorionox and Wenger are the best brands) would
probably be more useful than a sheath knife in many situations.

	And whatever you do 1) don't throw it at anything, 2) don't get in
a fight with one (better to run or throw rocks or even use a club), it kind of
defeats the purpose of survival i.e., staying alive.

	Good Luck - DL