Subject: Re: How much land is enough?

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 20:26:15 -0500

Andrew,
>I should have said in my initial post that the area we're looking at is 
>in the Appalachian region, probably southeastern West Virginia.

Nice area, and lovely people (they also are the exception that crime goes up
in relation to the unemployment level).  But some things you may want to
consider; Although my info is about 8 yrs old (transfered out of the state in
'87) ther are some items I was not aware of when I moved into the state in
'83.  Back then, the rest of the country was "booming" under Ronald
"Ray-guns", but WV was still hurting (locals admit that the state is the
first to feel a recession/depression, and the last to recover).  When the
mines are going full blast, there's plenty of money around that part of the
state, but times get pretty tough. You may want to check with your insurance
agent, when the mines are laying off, there used to be a rash of cars
suffering from "spontaneous combustion".  As a result, comprehensive vehicle
coverage was either very expensive, or non-existant in coal country.  Also
don't know if you have kids - what are they going to do when they grow up?
 FYI, WV has the highest "per capita" of native sons in the military - it's
either the armed forces, or work in the mines.  An up side to the state was
the low property tax (a 3200 sq ft. place on 2/3 of an acre in one of the
nicest areas in Huntington (2nd biggest city in the state) was only $295 a
year (I was paying that per month for half the house in Upstate NY last
year)).  The down side to low taxes was that roads in that area of the state
can kill you - if you  don't hit a pot hole and fly off the edge of a
mountain, a coal truck will push you off.

Depending on where you are in Southeast WV, you may be in the "fallout" area
of the Kanawa Valley. - The Kanawa River (which flows through the capital of
Charleston (which is the largest city at about 55,000?), at one time was the
center of production of 80% of the hazardous chemicals made in this country.
Remember Bophal India?  The only place where they made the same chemical in
this country was the Union Carbide agricultural products plant in Institute,
WV, just down the river from Charleston.  Things have improved greatly over
the last 40 years, but had some folks in some of my safety courses I was
taking  relay two interesting stories (1) skin cancer scars are referred to
as "hash marks" by the oldtimers in the plants (2) back in the '60's some
folks claimed they could smell the plants on the Kanawha River all the way in
Beckley (not likely, but....).  Be that as it may, take a ride either on the
river, or down rt 60 through the valley and count the chemical plants (FMC,
Union Carbide, Dupont, Monsanto, Dow, Fike Chemical (Fike does all the
"nasty" jobs the national companies don't want to touch).  Reason why all
these plants are on the Kanawha dates back before petro-chemicals, when early
"plastics" were made based on chlorine.  Chlorine is made out of salt and
energy - turns out WV sits on one of the largest brime deposits in the world,
along with hundreds of years worth of coal.  The Kanawha was the 1st flat
piece of land to both the coal fields and brime deposits (not to mention that
the finished products could be moved by water, once locks were installed on
the Kanawha and Ohio in the '30's).  As one plant made chlorine as a finished
product, the next plant used it as raw material, the third plant used the
2nd's finished product as feedstock, etc, etc. and as a result, plants just
grew along the river.  (Even today, Union Carbide requests to move (on
average) two NEW chemicals by barge per month - when asked what are the
chemicals used for, the std answer is "we don't know, but someone will find a
use for them".  =:-o 

>Also, I too am a woodworker, and I am interested in a lot with enough wood
>for fuel and woodworking.  My woodworking needs will be somewhat light -
>I'm not currently considering drawing significant income from woodworking, 
>it's more of a hobby/obsession ;)  

I've heard that somewhere between 65 & 85% of the state is covered with
hardwood forests, at one time furniture factories were booming, and high
schools in Huntington were responsible for turning out skilled workers for
same - all the factories are gone, but the high schools still have the same
equipment they used for their vo-tech program (ever see a band saw with a 48"
throat?).  All this old (and excellent) equipment is available via adult ed
for about $25-30 per semester.

>My real income will be coming from 
>contract computer programming and technical writing, both of which I 
>currently do here in the Washington, DC area.  Of course, if I *could* 
>draw my income from woodworking alone ...

Wood think lots of competion. (pun intended :-)

>The estimates of 5-10 acres that I'm hearing are somewhat lower than I 
>expected - I've been bracing for something like 20-40 or so.  We will 
>most likely not be pasturing any animals, so we don't have that to consider.
  
Sounds low to me too - if in the South East part of the state, expect the
land to be up and down , and in that case more land wouldn't be a bad idea
(woodlot excepted).  If you did buy livestock for that area, be sure to get
the kind that have shorter legs on one side so they can stand up straight on
the hillside ;-)

You didn't ask, but would suggest the area between Huntington and Charleston
(EXCEPT NITRO- you'll know why when you smell it passing through), or north
of the Huntington/Charleston area (Point Pleasant?)  Land is a lot flatter
the closer you are to the Ohio Valley, (if you're planning farming) and the
winters aren't as cold as you are only at 550 ft above sea level (vs the
mountains).  I realize that there are public colleges in both Bluefield and
Beckley, but both Charleston and Huntington have much larger schools with
more choices (as an example, Marshall U in Huntington is made up of 8
colleges (including med school), that offer 96 different majors.  Instate
tutition costs me $125 to $144 Per COURSE (not semester unit) when working on
my master's. (undergrad costs were less).)  Also Huntington is big enough to
find what you are looking for, while too small to get lost in (a planned
city, laid out on a grid, not to the water's edge like most river towns).  It
once had a population of 82,000, now maybe 50,000  ( parking is never a
problem downtown).  

One thing to keep in mind:  No matter where you buy in the state, IF you
decide it's not for you, selling the place will be tough (how many other
states are loosing population?  The further out and/or more remote you are,
the harder the sell.  (The nice place I mentioned in town took two years to
sell - at a loss.)

Frank S.

---

From: Andrew Evans <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 22:24:19 -0500 (EST)

Frank -

Thanks for the reality-check on West Virginia - but I think we're talking 
about two different parts of the state.  The real bad industrial stuff is 
more southcentral to southwest, not southeast - Huntington is on the 
extreme southwest border of the state, and the Kanawha flows from 
Charleston in the center toward it.  Where we're looking is in Pocahontas 
and Greenbrier Counties primarily, on the extreme southeast side of the 
state.  Your caveats about resale, poverty, etc. still apply in full 
force there, however.  We visited some longtime residents of Pocahontas 
Co. a few months ago, and they led us to believe that mining was not as 
much of a problem in their area - is this true?  We certainly didn't see 
the same evidence of mining that we saw in other parts of the state.  
Also, Sen. Byrd has seen to it that the roads in W. Va. are in top 
condition -noticably better in fact than those in Maryland, Virginia, and 
Pennsylvania.  This is probably new since you were there, and it probably 
won't stay that way for long, with the pork-trimming in Congress.

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