Subject: Re: Getting Together

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 09:15:02 -0600 (CST)

> Exactly, everywhere europeans went in the world they modeled the same sick
> living philosophy.  Lure people to the citys with the false promise of
> a better life.  the fact that prices where low for a few more upper poor
> broadened the working class.
> Industrialism has done nothing but placate the masses and destroyed family
> homesteads in the rural areas thru subsidys, and corporate food factories
> which under cut the

Placating "the masses" is not a bad idea.  Would we recommend alienating
most people?  If people want to move to the city and they have the means to
do so, let them go.  The city is not the place for me (and I suspect the
same is true for most of us on this network) but I don't have a problem with
other people achieving their dreams  - even if that dream is a factory job,
2.5 kids, a house in the town, etc.

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From: [email-masked] (Karl Henning)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 10:59:30 EST

> 2.5 kids, a house in the town, etc.

Yeah your right I guess if folks want they can do whatever.  I look at this 
group and its ideas as a catalist for a new mind set.  And hopefully the city
people can benifit by learning ways to enrich those impoverished areas by
growing in the city, building lush gardens and areas where plants can produce 
some fresh air for people.  Maybe our movement will propagate to a city model.
How many times has anyone read about the folks who clean up a vacant lot for
growing and getting people together to do it.  I always read how good it 
makes them feel to commune together and see some beauty in an otherwise
ugly, dirty place.   thanks for the response above.  I think city mgt.
needs to work more with these kind of ideas.  it would benifit all of us
in the long run.

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From: [email-masked] (Karl Henning)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 11:31:36 EST

> 
> On Thu, 2 Mar 1995 [email-masked] wrote:
> 
> > 
> > do so, let them go. 
> I think that most homesteading types don't really mind being viewed as 
> socially-challenged rural bumpkins.  If they scare a few ex-urbanites 
> away, well that's more privacy (and cheaper land) for them. They also 
> turn the tables and sneer at those not willing to sacrifice their 
> appliances (or electricity, or city sewage, or car, or... you get the 
> idea) and really "rough it."  Most of the original motivation for choices 
> homesteaders make is financial (capital).  Somewhere down the line these 
> choices become "values" and allofasudden they become entrenched dogma.
> 
> Case-in-point:  For housing I aim to remodel/restore an older farmhouse, 
> possibly retrofitting some sort of superinsullation and adding a masonry 
> heater.  Out-of-pocket cost would be for the home and the weatherizing, 
> with the other improvements coming later.  Yep, I am making a conscious 
> decision to recycle an older home.  I prefer the sense of history 
> vernacular architecture provides.  No, I am not a disciple of the yurt, 
> earth-berm, straw bale, rammed earth dwelling.  I happen not to like 
> those options for reasons I've just explained.  But let's remember the 
> bottom line:  $$$$$$!
> 
> Matt Hamel
> [email-masked]
> 
> In the Chevy Chevette of the Information Superhighway
> 
> 

I like that, "socially-challenged rural bumpkins". guess I am a little
socially challenged, bit of an introvert, big bit.  There are many nice old
places, we bought like Matt, with similar motives, I also considerd the 
resources that are used for a new house.  Guess I'll follow the leassons of
the hermit crab, find a *already-built*.   The above alternatives all have to
consider local climate.  Can't see building a straw bail in MI.  But I certainly
would not rule out alternative dwellings that minimized new resource
use (shades of the 70's).  We do know that interior contours are better for air 
flow then hard angles.  Matt can you describe the masonry heater you use.
We have a 1100 ft2. single floor home.  What is the fuel you use with one?

---

From: "Matthew W. Hamel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 11:13:36 -0500 (EST)

Matt Hamel
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Dwayne)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 05:15:19 +1100 (EST)

I peeled a grape, and found that Matthew W. Hamel had written upon it:
: 
: They also 
: turn the tables and sneer at those not willing to sacrifice their 
: appliances (or electricity, or city sewage, or car, or... you get the 
: idea) and really "rough it."  

Speak for yourself. I have no intention of "roughing it" if I can avoid it.

Dwayne.

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