Subject: Re: Self sufficient

From: "bonni brooks" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 12:39:28 EST

>  I think these people take it a bit too far, and in the
>process they miss out on the incredible opportunity to reach kindred
>souls in far-flung parts (like what we have here).  Heck, even the
>Shakers were gung-ho about technological progress!  I don't think you
>have to abandon technology - just apply it appropriately.

Absolutely.  I like computers, antibiotics (I'd be dead if those hadn't
been invented - severe post-partum infection, don'tcha know), cold
root beer, and ceiling fans.  I'm going to use a Troy-Bilt tiller on
the ground I have planned for a rose garden; my husband is going to
rent a mechanical post hole digger of some kind so he can get post
holes four feet deep.  I think these things enhance our ability to be
self-sufficient, and I also think the Luddite mentality denies that
"no man is an island."

On the other hand, we bake all our bread, we have chickens for eggs
and later this year we'll have goats for fresh milk.  I think it's
downright goofy to bake muffins and pancakes from a mix (containing
unknown chemical preservatives) when you can make them from scratch
just as easily (with no preservatives at all).  I have major reservations
about non-organic fertilizers and pesticides, and I despise television.

But I'm grateful for the hospital that saved my youngest son's life when
he was born two months early, the fabric stores that make it possible
to make clothing, the computer job that gives my husband an income.

Cities have their uses.  I just don't want to live in one.  You know
when gangs show up in Morgantown, WV, that it's getting bad.

just my $.02.
bonni

  IC | XC  |     bonni brooks "The Lone Quilter"          |  "We speak
  ---+---  |         [email-masked]                |   Byzantine
  NI | KA  | Kelly's Creek Homestead, Maidsville, WV  USA |   Catholic
           |   http://wvnvm.wvnet.edu/~u6ed4/bonni.html   |   here."

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From: Andrew Evans <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 13:51:32 -0500 (EST)

I totally agree.  The Luddites also fail to realize that they use far 
more technology than even they realize - hand-powered tools where once 
high-tech.  Heck, farming itself is arguably a technology, and it 
certainly can be (and has been) applied inappropriately.  In fact, I 
would argue that many "plain" communities (like the Amish and 
Mennonites), despite their admirable self-reliance, are just as 
short-sighted from a sustainability standpoint as the rest of the world.  
I think the real answers will come when we learn to choose the good 
things from each world - the self-reliance and community spirit of the 
"plain" folks, and the innovation and sustainability knowledge coming 
from the cutting-edge.  It would really be a shame if we wound up with the 
provincialism and closed-mindedness of the plain folks and the Home 
Shopping Network ;).

>            |   http://wvnvm.wvnet.edu/~u6ed4/bonni.html   |   here."

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From: MICHAEL BRZEZOWSKI <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 15:17:12 -0500 (EST)

> > self-sufficient, and I also think the Luddite mentality denies that
    
     Technologies by themselves are not bad.  Uses can be bad, and they means
to obtain them can be bad.  I have been fighting the issue of good and bad
technologies myself.  I can only hope that if I am diagnosed with cancer
I will be as brave as Ivan Illich and refuse treatment.  I don't want to get
into an argument with people here over this issue.  I just want to get info
and experiences of people being more self-reliant.
     But when you look at technology, look at what you have to do to obtain
and maintain it.  Antibiotics can be great, but think of all the nasty
resistant strains of bacteria which have developed.  Think of the money put
into the research (more hours at your job to support it).  Think of teh addded
research needed to combat new resistant strains.
     Same with the internet.  You spread information, but have to pay for the
constant upkeep of it (taxes), the upgrading of you computer, phone bills,
electicity (pollution, depletion of resources, loss of land).
     Then you have to weigh it for yourself.  ...Everyone is going to come up
with their own conclusions after looking at it.  I am currently torn between
ditching this thing in front of me, and keeping it.  I tell myself that when I
get to grad school and make my own home I will ditch it.  Will I...?  I don't
know.   

Well, enough rambling.....Please don't hate me.
* Mike