Subject: Converting 10frames to 9

From: [email-masked] (Peter Wolfe)
Date: 26 Aug 1996 04:12:16 GMT

For the last several weeks I have been harvesting a few full and medium 
supers of honey above excluders from 9 colonies here on the west side of  
Calfornia's Central Valley.  This is my first year and I started with 
10frames of new foundation and packages or swarms.  From what I read it 
is easier to work with 9 frames and upon inspection of the upper brood 
supers of my hives, I discovered that they were completely filled with 
capped honey also (no brood,pollen).  I decided to steal 1 frame of honey 
>from  this super and space out the remaining 9 using  a frame rake.  There 
was also a lot of bridge comb between the bottom  & upper brood supers.  
When I tried to remove the upper for a peak down below, this comb was 
broken and honey ran everywhere.  Honey, wax , bees and my first 
encounter with more than 1 or 2 guards.  I just wanted to close it up 
pronto.  My questions are these:  Have I committed a grievous error?  
Will they fill up the extra space?  We have moderate winters here.  
Should I steal another frame give them back drawn comb.  When would be 
the appropriate time to switch the bottom super to 9 frames and should I 
be thinking about making nucs or something with these in the spring?  
Despite my first encounter with truly defensive behavior,  I'm having a 
ball.

Peter Wolfe      Brentwood, CA    (Contra Costa County,  no OJ)

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From: Gerry Visel <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:14:01 -0700

Generally, it can be stated that burr comb indicates improper bee 
space.

   Bee Culture (or was it ABJ) recently ran a comparison of dimensions of 
woodenware from various sources.  It was all different!  Some had top 
bars even with the top of the box, and the space provided under the 
bottom bar, while some was even at the bottom and recessed at the top!

   If you mix hardware, bee-ware of screwing up the spacing.

   If you start with ten frames, and then switch to nine, it will allow 
them to get them drawn out with minimal chance of burr comb.  Then 
removing the tenth frame lets them draw them out fatter, and gives a bit 
more space to manipulate the frames.  You might want to extract the 
middle (or every other) frame in the top hive body to give your queen 
some room to grow and help prevent swarming.

Gerry Visel

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From: Jonathan H Robbins <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 09:59:12 +0100

In article <[email-masked]>, Gerry Visel <[email-masked]>
writes
snipped for brevity
>some room to grow and help prevent swarming.

Dear Gerry - follow this and think I understand - but I'm using
Langstroth deep brood boxes, are you suggesting using two deep brood
boxes, or one plus a shallow, or are you just using shallow ones?

Greetings from sunny Dorset in the UK.
-- 
Jonathan H Robbins

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From: Gerry Visel <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 10:13:14 -0700

I have some hives "1 1/2" high and (a deep Langstroth and a medium 
super under it for space) some two high.  The double hives seam to winter 
better here in northern Illinois.  I know of noone who uses just shallow 
boxes for brood.

I super with all shallow supers so they are not so heavy.

Regards, 
Gerry Visel

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From: [email-masked] (Peter Wolfe)
Date: 22 Sep 1996 05:20:04 GMT

Reposting article removed by rogue canceller.

And so my question would be:  when starting new colonies with undrawn 
foundation, is it allright to begin with nine frames only?  The same 
question would apply to honey supers as well.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 20 Sep 1996 23:58:38 GMT

I decided to steal 1 frame of honey 
>  broken and honey ran everywhere. 
 
I suspect what you did wrong was space full capped frames. If you space emptied frames they will draw the 
cells deepeer and not think about burr comb. I guess they just weren't about to remove thwe cappings and 
make the cells deeper.

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From: "Victor C. Rimkus" <[email-masked]>
Date: 24 Sep 1996 13:58:13 GMT

If you are going to convert from 9 to 10 frames, you should do the entire 
hive at one time. If you mix 9 and 10 frame boxes you will get a lot of 
burr comb where there is a vertical mismatch in the frames.

I have had problems trying to get 9 frame hives with foundation drawn out 
correctly. The bees tend to build comb between the sheets of foundation. 
I have not had any problem with starting 10 frames and once drawn/filled, 
then converting to 9 frames.

Victor C. Rimkus
[email-masked]