Subject: plastic foundation/frames

From: Dave MacFawn <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:20:15 GMT

With plastic foundations one of the selling points from Brushy
Mountain, etc. is that the comb can be scraped down to the
plastic foundation midrib.  How easy and successful is this
accomplished?  When the old comb is scraped down to the midrib
plastic,  do the bees accept this reclaimed foundation easily?

Also, Pierco sells a plastic frame and foundation combination
with the foundation sprayed with beeswax.  Are these frames
worth the extra cost over wooden  frames with either plastic or
beeswax foundation?

Thanks, Dave M.

dave macfawn
AT&T Global Information Solutions
[email-masked]
(803) 939-7409

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From: Robert Allen Stevens <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 96 13:38:19 -0500

I just harvested a bunch of pierco frames in medium supers and they averaged 53
lbs of honey each.
None of my wooden supers come close to that. No top bars to come off - they are
a lifetime frame.
The only disadvantage of them over wooden frames is that because of the the
thinner top bar, they
will glue them down more than the wooden frame because the bee space isn't
right in the supers.
As for cost, I would dispute the question " are they worth the extra money."  I
bought mine from Betterbee for $1.06 each.  I can't buy a wooden frame, a sheet
of crimp- wired and 10 nails or staples for that price. So, I would phrase it :
"Are wooden frames really worth the extra money."   I look   forward to the day
when my wooden frames are all weeded out, and I have nothing but Pierco.

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From: [email-masked] (Walker Decker)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 02:16:25 GMT

Dave,

Dave MacFawn <[email-masked]> wrote:

->With plastic foundations one of the selling points from Brushy
->Mountain, etc. is that the comb can be scraped down to the
->plastic foundation midrib.  How easy and successful is this
->accomplished?  When the old comb is scraped down to the midrib
->plastic,  do the bees accept this reclaimed foundation easily?

  Basically, you use a 3" wide putty knife at a low angle and "plane"
the old wax off. You don't want to press so hard that you damage the
honey comb-shaped plastic with the knife. It doesn't really matter how
much old wax remains, the bees will straighten it out. 

->Also, Pierco sells a plastic frame and foundation combination
->with the foundation sprayed with beeswax.  Are these frames
->worth the extra cost over wooden  frames with either plastic or
->beeswax foundation?

  I have used the Pierco "one-piece" plastic frame/foundation for many
years. I have found no advantage to the pre-coated with beeswax over
the plain plastic.

  The main problem, which can be advoided, is getting the bees to draw
the comb on brand new frames. This is not a problem if the frames are
added just before the honeyflow in the Spring, or if you are feeding
heavily with sugar syrup and the bees need the extra comb for nectar
storage.

  I think a major advantage of the one-piece design is not having to
assemble or repair wooden frames. Therefore the plastic-type
replacements for standard all-wax foundation don't appeal to me.

  I only use medium depth bodies (6 5/8"), and use the Pierco frames
exclusively (ten frames to a body; no spaces between the frames). For
a hobbyist beekeeper (and that's what I am), I think they're great.

  Perhaps one of the commercial beekeeper's who monitor this newsgroup
could comment on their opinion of plastic frames.

  If you have any other questions about the use of these frames, let
me know and I will try to answer.

  Walker Decker
  Kinsale, VA

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From: [email-masked] (John Caldeira)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 12:05:43 GMT

>when my wooden frames are all weeded out, and I have nothing but Pierco.

Robert,
  Don't sell your wooden frames just yet!   Perhaps Pierco has
improved their frames, but the ones that were in some hives I bought
had problems with the top bars cracking after a few years.  In
addition, normal hive tool manipulations would often crack the
flastic frames.
  Now I buy only plastic foundation (Plasticell or Permandent) and
pop them into wooden frames with grooved top and bottom bars.  You
get the same beautiful brood patterns. 

John Caldeira
Dallas, Texas, USA
[email-masked]