Subject: what are skeps

From: Bently Durant <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 15:40:17 -0500

I have seen advertisments of upside-down woven baskets called skeps.
are they used to cach swarms or were they used as hives in the middle 
ages.

please email me.

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From: hoeger <[email-masked]>
Date: 29 Jul 1996 17:00:49 GMT

Dear Bently,
These upside-down baskets are used in past times as beehives.  
In these hives the bees built the combs without frames.  The 
beekeeper cut out the honeycombs after using a lot of smoke and 
shaking the bees out of the hive.
In the middle age there was no "beekeeping".  The Zeideler, so 
a beekeeper or better honeymaker called in these times, knews 
the location of wild bees in the forest and get their honey once 
a year by opening the treecavities.  The best discription of 
these job will be honeyhunting.  The development of stempieces 
with a caviety or the straw-baskets finished these area, made 
the bees moveable, and farmers became beekeepers (teachers, 
monks and reverents too).  Finely somebody discovers the system 
of moveable frames and developed a extractor.  This was the 
birthday of modern beekeeping.
Back to the strawbaskets.  These kinds of hives were very common 
in the Lueneburger Heide, a landscape in Germany.  There these 
hives are still in use, and some of them are nearly 100 years 
old.  There are still only a small number of people left, who 
know to build these hives from straw and mud.
These "Bienenkoerbe" are a symbol for beekeeping in Germany 
(most german beekeepers use modern hives).  
Smaller baskets with a handel on the top are often used for 
swarm-catching or for decoration and promotion in honeyshops.

I hope these informations help to answer your questions,

with best regards

Ulli Hoeger

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From: Lenny Taylor <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:16:37 -0500

> are they used to cach swarms or were they used as hives in the middle

The first respondant to your question gave a very good history of the
straw skep but failed to point out, quite appropriately given his
location, that they are illegal to use in many areas of the United
States.  The reason is that because of their design, there is no easy
way to harvest without killing lots of bees.  So, keep your hives in the
wooden boxes with removable frames and enjoy skeps because they
represent a bit of history.

Take care.

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From: [email-masked] (Pollinator)
Date: 30 Jul 1996 07:05:06 -0400

In article <[email-masked]>, Lenny Taylor <[email-masked]>
writes:

>but failed to point out, quite appropriately given his
>way to harvest without killing lots of bees.

   Box hives, gums, skeps, and any hive without moveable frames are
illegal because they must be inspected by state inspectors for foulbrood
disease.  A special permit can be obtained to keep a skep (or other
non-moveable frame type), for educational, museum, research or similar
reasons.

   The skep is widely used as a symbol of bees, beekeeping, and
industriousness.
The Mormon Church (Latter Day Saints) uses the skep as a symbol, because
they admire the bees.

   I think the skep is also an official symbol for the state of Utah. 
Ironically, the Utah farmers once used to think that bees hurt the alfalfa
blossoms, because they the fields rapidly turned to a rusty color, if
there were a lot of bees.  Of course this happened because the blossoms
were pollinated quickly.

   Some of these farmers pursuaded the state to ban migratory beekeeping,
and blocked beekeepers from their normal route from California to Utah
alfalfa fields, to more northern honey spots later.

   It was only a brief barrier, but it sunk the alfalfa seed industry in
Utah, and gave the whole industry to California.  By the time the error
was realized, the patterns had been set in new ways, so as to bypass Utah.
 About this time California was learning to put bees out on alfalfa at
much higher than honey production rates, so as to get saturation
pollination.

[email-masked]                                   Dave and Janice Green
Practical Pollination Home Page    
http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html  
PO Box 1200, Hemingway, SC    29554

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From: [email-masked] (Mike Reddy)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 13:08:01 +0100

> shaking the bees out of the hive.

Historically, beekeepers would either immerse the skeps in water
(hopefully clean) or kill the bees using sulphur fires (fires on which
sulphur has been sprinkled). The latter being quite an art to do without
tainting the honey; there are cases in the middle ages where beekeepers
were successfully prosecuted for selling sulphur poisoned honey.

> In the middle age there was no "beekeeping".

Maybe not in Germany, though I doubt that, but there definitely was
"beekeeping in the middle ages, and earlier. Remains of a skep were found
at Yorvik (now called York) in the UK which date back to Viking times. And
numerous other reliable sources suggest that bee keeping has existed for a
long time.

> know to build these hives from straw and mud.

There is no mud used in skeps. Perhaps Hoeger is thinking of the willow or
wicker basket hives which skeps replaced?

> way to harvest without killing lots of bees.

Not sure I agree with this interpretation.

> non-moveable frame type), for educational, museum, research or similar

This is more likely, though not the whole story. (See below).

Bill Henderson <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Bee colonies were not worked as they are today. Instead the colony 
> was left to its own devices and, when honey was harvested, either the 
> colony was killed or driven (drummed) off. An empty skep was placed 
> above the occupied one and the bees were drummed (hit the sides of 
> the bottom skep) into the upper skep. The comb contained honey and 
> brood - the queen was not excluded from the honey storage combs.

The latter as well as the health and safety issues are probably why some
US states ban the use of skeps. Driving is quite an art in itself - in
Victorian times, beekeepers would go to village fairs to show off their
driving skills (and even entered competitions). The trick is to drive the
bees at the right time (no uncapped brood) and keep them in their new home
(they often as not swarm off in disgust!).

> Some amateurs use skeps to hold swarms until they can find something 
> better to do with them.

And some professionals still use skeps for keeping the bees.

> They are outdated.

That depends on what you mean. There may be some additional difficulty in
handling the bees (swarming and mixing brood with honey comb), but I
suspect that the more 'natural' environs of a skep are less stressful to
the bees. I agree that they are not suitable for honey production in
today's legal climate.

Couldn't help but join in the discussion - skeps are an obsession of mine.
I make them and use them for beekeeping (in Tudor style) for living
history and re-enactment displays (as well as the joy of it!). I've also
done some extensinve reading on the historical sources of beekeeping
(including Aristotle and Pliny). So, if you have any questions, mail me.

Or you could point your web browser at:

http://www.comp.glam.ac.uk/pages/staff/mreddy/skepFAQ/

be warned. It's nowhere near complete yet (doing it in my spare time), but
should be completed by the end of August.

-- 
Email: [email-masked] CU-Seeme: 193.63.130.40 (On request)
Web: http://www.comp.glam.ac.uk/pages/staff/mreddy/mreddy.html
Snail: J228, Dept. of Computer Studies, University of Glamorgan, Pontypridd, 
Mid Glamorgan. CF37 1DL Wales, UK. +44 1443 482 240 Fax: +44 1443 482 715

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 20:18:10 GMT

Skeps are hives constructed of straw that were used to house bees prior to
the introduction of the movable frame hive.

There shape is roughly hemispherical and they were placed open-end-down on
a round floor board to create a dry, warm cavity in which the bees could
construct their comb.

To remove the honey from such a hive the bees generally had to be
destroyed and this was achieved by placing the skep over a small pit
containing burning sulphur
--
Regards, Alex. Shaw.

Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire.

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From: Bill Henderson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 00:11:02 +0100

In message <[email-masked]>

> please email me.

Bently

They were used as hives before the introduction of the the moveable 
hanging frame, ie those frames found in the like of the Smith or 
Langstroth hives.

They are outdated.

-- 
Bill       Br of Cally, Perthshire, Scotland
e-mail     [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 08:07:04 EDT

In article <[email-masked]>
Lenny Taylor <[email-masked]> writes:
 
>
>The first respondant to (the) question gave a very good history of the
 
Actually, the reason skeps are outlawed in some (most?) areas is not due
to a concern over the bees' demise at harvest time, the reason behind
the legislation is that skeps, due to their nonremovable fram design,
aren't able to be inspected for disease.
 
Skeps are a relic of history.  Although they are recognized by lay-people
as common beekeeping equipment and they adorn many honey labels, their
use for effective beekeeping is way in the past.  Using a skep to keep
bees is like using sealing wax to close an envelope or using a
typewriten to type a document or using a Model T for a Sunday drive or
biting a bullet for anesthesia or....  Relics certainly CAN be used to
accomplish what they did in theiy day, but given the better tools that
have evolved why woul one?  Skeps certainly DO make an interesting
show piece, but they are best left for display without inhabitants.
 
Aaron Morris - thinking technology is a wonderful thing!

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From: [email-masked] (Mike Reddy)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:08:56 +0100

For your information:

You wrote:

> Skeps are a relic of history.....  Relics certainly CAN be used to
 
> Aaron Morris - thinking technology is a wonderful thing!

Why not just make a chemical plant to create advanced honey substitute
(tm) and be done with all those nasty low tech bees. My God, have you no
soul?