Subject: Cutting Queens' Wings...............

From: [email-masked]. (Justin Case)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 10:20:05 GMT

I have seen Queen's for sale with the option of cutting the wings.  Does this
help prevent the loss of a swarm?  Why are the wings cut if not for swarm 
control?  And, if it keeps them from flying away with a queen, what happens
to the swarm after they realize that the queen is not able to fly with them?

I live  and keep my bees in a residential area where swarms are more
frightening to passersby then if they saw it happen in the country.  I am
seriously considering the idea of purchasing clipped queens but I consider
this a bit radical since I consider a clipped queen to be a damaged queen.

Comments?

---

From: [email-masked] (Bill Henderson)
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 11:44:11 +0100

In message <[email-masked]>
        [email-masked]. (Justin Case) writes: 

> help prevent the loss of a swarm?

<< snip>>

Justin

When a swarm takes off the queen goes with it. As she can't fly she 
crawls out the door and gets lost. All of the swarmed bees (less the 
queen) fly back to the hive.

The hive is kept up to stength and the hive should soon have reared a 
new queen.

It's common practice in the spring to clip the previous year's new queens.

-- 
Bill       Br of Cally, Perthshire, Scotland
e-mail     [email-masked]
packet     GM0VIT@GB7YEW.#79.GBR.EU

---

From: [email-masked] (Indrakumar Vetharaniam)
Date: 1 Jul 1996 00:06:56 GMT

Justin Case ([email-masked].) wrote:
: I have seen Queen's for sale with the option of cutting the wings.  Does this
: help prevent the loss of a swarm?  Why are the wings cut if not for swarm 
: control?  And, if it keeps them from flying away with a queen, what happens
: to the swarm after they realize that the queen is not able to fly with them?

: I live  and keep my bees in a residential area where swarms are more
: frightening to passersby then if they saw it happen in the country.  I am
: seriously considering the idea of purchasing clipped queens but I consider
: this a bit radical since I consider a clipped queen to be a damaged queen.

First, the best way to prevent swarms is to have a young queen, give
plenty of room to the bees, and do regular swarm checks, taking
appropriate measures if swarming preparation is detected.

Clipping a Queen's wings won't prevent the colony from making swarming
preparations (building queen cells) and in the long run it doesn't
prevent them from swarming: 

When the swarm first issues, the clipped queen won't be able to
accompany it and the swarming bees will return (the queen may be lost
in the process when it leaves the hive and can't fly). The bees will
wait till some of the new queens emerge, and one or more of these will
then leave with the prime swarm. (There may also be more likelihood of
casts.)

So what you gain by having clipped queens is a bit of time - the time
between the colony first attempting to swarm and it actually doing so,
and this could be important: A colony may swarm in as little as ten
days after initiating queen rearing. If you do swarm checks every two
weeks, there is a small possibility that you may still lose a swarm.
With clipped queens, given that it takes 16 days from an egg to an
emerged queen, you give yourself an extra safeguard.

I don't consider a clipped queen to be damaged, since it doesn't seem
to affect the queen's performance (except in the air). If the bees
"considered" the queen damaged they would supersede her.

--
Kumar             oo*",ooo***"""
___________    o*****" :****:.,
\        o"""""o     ":        "*;
 \    o*## `'' ##*o   $           ",  So we the bees make honey,
  \  *  ###   ###     :           ,'
   \    /#     #"*:::* "**::::$:*"      but not for ourselves.
    \  /, ":::"  $   "$        $
     \/$    $   $      $        "$
      $         $       "$        "$

---

From: hoeger <[email-masked]>
Date: 1 Jul 1996 13:59:38 GMT

Hi,
Cutting of a wing of the queen will not prevent a swarm, but you 
don´t lose it if you take a regular look for your bees. The old 
queen will fall on the ground if she leaves the hive with the 
swarm.  The queenless swarm will return to its hive after a short 
time, and the wingless queen is crawling in front of the hive, 
attended by a small number of bees.  The swarm inside the hive is 
waiting now for the first virgin queen to leave the hive again.  
This will give you some more days to buildt up 2nd hive with them 
(you can use the old queen if you pick her up in front of the 
hive, or use a new, virgin queen or queencell).
If you miss this chance they are gone a week later.
Cutting the wing is not swarm control, but it prevent the lost of 
a swarm, dangerous treeclimbing (beekeepers are not monkeys), and 
angry neigbours
Usullay 1/3 to 1/4 of one wing is cut off.  This will disable the 
queen to fly away(reason for this is the flightmechanism of 
Hymnoptera or Diptera, a dragonfly or a locust will be able to 
fly with 3 wings).  So is it important to do this cutting only on 
adult, ready mated queens (wait a few weeks after she starts 
laying eggs) and cut only one wing. Complete cutting of both 
pairs of wings may force the bees to rear a new queen, cutting 
off 1/3 will cause not such problems. 

Wish all of you a good season

Ulli Höger

---

From: Dave Black <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 09:12:44 +0100

In article <[email-masked]>, hoeger
<[email-masked]> writes
>a swarm, dangerous treeclimbing (beekeepers are not monkeys), and 
Good points, except the last ! If shes not clipped they go out and go
away. If she's clipped they go out, they go in. They go out, they go in.
They go out ......... :-)
-- 
Dave Black
Blacks Bee Gardens, 
Guildford, GU1 4RN.  UK.

---

From: Nate Saal <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 00:13:11 -0700

I was also about to post a question about cutting a queen's wings...
and some of you might find this interesting.

My best friend who is a phylosophy student gave me a book to read, 
Virgil's The Georgics, since he knows that I am a beekeeper and he can't 
resist an opportunity to get me to read a little of his material.  The 
Georgics, written in 29 B.C., has one section all about beekeeping, so 
if you are interested in some history of beekeeping, give it a read.

The one part that caught my eye was about clipping a Queen's (rather 
King's as written) wings as a method of swarm control.

"But if the swarm is aimless, gadding about in the air, disdainful of 
the cells and leaving its quarters to get cold, you must intervene to 
check their giddy spirits from idle play.  To check them is no great 
task: just take the kings and tear their wings off.  While these stay at 
home no one will dare to take off into the air, strike camp and move the 
standards."

So, there you have it. A practice that dates back hundres of years.

nate

---

From: [email-masked] (Justin Case)
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 96 02:47:00 GMT

>They go out ......... :-)

        OK.  So, since the hive is going to make a new queen anyway (if none 
are not already on the way), why not locate the queen (surely she will be on 
the ground near the hive) and remove her from the swarm.  They will then have
no choice but to stay in the original hive. Am I right in all these 
assumptions?