Subject: Grease Patties

From: [email-masked] (Justin Case)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 96 00:57:58 GMT

Can anyone give me a simple recipe for GREASE PATTIES.
Please include AMOUNTS since every recipe I have seen pretty much says to
mix grease(Crisco) with sugar but the amounts are very vague.  

Also, how about adding Terramycin to the patties?  How much there? 

And now that everyone is talking about mint oils, (although still 
experimental) about how much oil of wintergreen might I try adding to these 
patties while I am at it?

Thanks for any responses.

BTW.  I lost two out of five hives in the past three weeks and another is
just barely hanging on.  Two of the hives are incredibly strong and I haven't
treated them for mites yet.  I plan on splitting these hives in the sprint to
generate some queens from these colonies.  I pray these are extremely
mite resistant.  (I am still going to use Apistan on them in the Fall though.)

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From: Gerry Visel <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 12:57:18 -0700

The recipe for Grease Patties:

Bigger batch:
2 pounds VEGETABLE shortning (Crisco, etc., no animal fats)
3 pounds granulated sugar
3 Tablespoons TM50 (dunno metric equivalent...)

Smaller batch (With TM25:)
1/4 lb shortning
1/2 lb granulated sugar
1 tablespoon TM25

Per colony:  (from a different source)
1/3 lb shortning
2/3 cup sugar
2 tablespoons TM25

   Some of the guys in our club use powdered sugar, which they might eat 
easier, but I got cautioned on BEE-L that it contains corn starch, and 
should not be fed in the fall, at least.

   I would go ahead and treat the weak hives with Apistan, and maybe 
consider combining them to get built up before winter.  Feed them a lot.

Gerry Visel

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From: [email-masked] (Janet A. Katz)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 04:08:41 GMT

>Also, how about adding Terramycin to the patties?  How much there? 

(1) 6.4 oz. pk. Terramycin
2-1/2 lbs. Crisco
5 lbs. Granulated Sugar

Mix the dry ingredients thorougly, then mix with Criscoo. Divide into
15 equal portions and flatten into patties.

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From: Dave Black <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 13:31:58 +0100

In article <[email-masked]>, Justin Case
<[email-masked]> writes
>patties while I am at it?

OK I've tried but I can't resist. I just love the idea of someone called
Just in Case adding everything to his grease patties, 'just in case.'
Sorry Justin, no offence I hope. You must be by name and by nature a
'belt and braces' man and used to the odd jest :-)

I am curious about something more general though, which you guys may
have discussed already. Many of the Europeans, followed by some in the
US, have raised concerns about contaminates, esp. fluvalinates, in the
wax 'stream'. I see much less concern about the prophylactic use of
things like terramycin or fumagillin. Why not ? Both are storing up
trouble for the future, but you seem content to use one and worry about
another.

Or maybe I'm not paying close enough attention.

-- 
Dave Black
Blacks Bee Gardens, 
Guildford, GU1 4RN.  UK.

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From: [email-masked] (Justin Case)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 18:06:26 GMT

>'belt and braces' man and used to the odd jest :-)

        Yesf, I want to add Oil of Wintergreen to Terramycin Grease Patties
        "just in case" there is a problem.

        This is the second year that I have been battling varroa and each year 
        I lose half my colonies.  I split hives in the spring and lose half in 
        the fall.  Really frustrating.  (However, I have two hives that are
        incredibly strong and I sure hope I am seeing the beginning of some
        mite resistance.  I will definitely do splits from these in the 
        Spring.)

        BTW, I live in New Orleans where it RARELY freezes and even more
        rarely snows.  We always have some flowers in bloom in our sub-
        tropical environment.  This makes it VERY difficult to keep honey
        from being stored during varroa (apistan) treatment.

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From: Dave Black <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 14:16:50 +0100

In article <[email-masked]>, Justin Case
<[email-masked]> writes
>
>         (However, I have two hives that are

Mite Resitance !! Be lucky ! Seriously though,
>
>        I live in New Orleans where it RARELY freezes and even more
Have you integrated your treatment with splits ? If you split or
artificially swarm you can arrange things so there is one colony with
brood and one without. Treat the one without using Apistan for 96 hours.
There's no brood cycle to treat and not much wax about so the knockdown
of phoretic mites is what you want. Honey contamination is not much of
worry 'cos the fluvalinate is fat soluble. You could do this with lactic
acid if you really don't like Apistan.
Take your pick of treatments for the colony with brood. You could for
example use six weeks of Apistan and then ditch the combs, treat with
formic acid and benefit from handling smaller quantities and not risking
your good queens, when the brood's sealed how about dusting with talc,
set up a trap frame with drone brood or even try your essential oils. 

Don't despair, you're going to have to manage this for a long time and
you've only just started ! Your bees will thank you in the long run.
-- 
Dave Black
Blacks Bee Gardens, 
Guildford, GU1 4RN.  UK.

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From: [email-masked] (Andy Nachbaur)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 15:57:00 GMT

J>From: [email-masked] (Janet A. Katz)
 >Subject: Re: Grease Patties

J>[email-masked] (Justin Case) wrote:

J>>Can anyone give me a simple recipe for GREASE PATTIES.
 >>mix grease(Crisco) with sugar but the amounts are very vague.

J>>Also, how about adding Terramycin to the patties?  How much there?

J>(1) 6.4 oz. pk. Terramycin
 >5 lbs. Granulated Sugar

J>Mix the dry ingredients thorougly, then mix with Criscoo. Divide into
 >15 equal portions and flatten into patties.

Very interesting diet, I am sure it works but I wonder about the
amount of TM ? A 6.4 oz package should be enough to protect 50 hives
for as long as the diet lasts and I assume that you are using it on 15.

I think I would try doubling the fat and sugar with that amount of TM
and reduce the cost and not gamble on the LD 50 for TM, but maybe
someone knows why so much TM is recommended?

                           ttul Andy-
---
 þ QMPro 1.53 þ ... Nor will a bee buzz round two swelling peaches,

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From: Gerry Visel <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 10:16:59 -0700

Try adding a bit of honey to the patties to get the bees on them quicker.

Gerry

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From: [email-masked] (John Caldeira)
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 1996 18:11:09 GMT

>Gerry

Gerry,
  It is my understanding that terrmycin in contact with water
greatly reduces the time that terramycin is effective.  This is
probably why foulbrood patty recipes are always oil-based instead of
water-based.  Since honey contains water, adding honey to a grease
patty may reduce the effectivenss of the terramycin.  Caution.

John Caldeira
Dallas, Texas, USA
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Allen Dick)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 96 11:42:31 GMT

>patty may reduce the effectivenss of the terramycin.  Caution.

Besides, the idea is not to get the bees to eat the pattie quickly, 
but to have them in contact with it for a long time.  The purpose of 
the sugar, apparently is to ensure they do work at it a little at a 
time, rather than ignore it or propolize it.

Regards

Allen

W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper                                    VE6CFK
Rural Route One, Swalwell, Alberta  Canada  T0M 1Y0
    Honey, Bees, & Art <http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~dicka/>

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From: [email-masked] (MURRAY,JEFFREY P)
Date: 11 Sep 1996 07:52:46 -0400

>The addition of Honey in place of sugar adds nothing that the bees can
>not get from the sugar other then inflating the cost of the treatment
>and a small risk that the honey may not be a good food source for the
>bees, such as melter honey, or honey contaminated with some bee disease.
>
>                               ttul Andy-
>

Andy,

   I was curious about your statement about "melter" honey. I assume
by this you mean the sugar syrup left over after melting down comb...?
Why would that sugar syrup not be a good source of food for the 
bees? Does the heating cause it to be inedible? I would think 
heating would help eliminate the potential for spreading any
disease spores...what am I missing here?

   Jef

-- 
==========================================================================
"There is more to life than increasing its speed...." Mohandas K. Gandhi

Jef                                  Internet: [email-masked]
==========================================================================

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From: [email-masked] (Andy Nachbaur)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:34:00 GMT

>patty may reduce the effectivenss of the terramycin.  Caution.

Hi John,

Yes, TM does degrade fast in water, but the amount recommended for each
hive takes into consideration that and tests and beekeeper experience
have proven that TM is very satisfactory for its intended use in sugar
syrup or dry sugar.

It must be remembered honeybees do not eat any solid foods and anything
they consume is liquefied so whatever the carrier you use to get TM
into the hive it will be in contact with some form of water and does
degrade, but is effective.

Beekeepers who feed lots of sugar syrup to stimulate brood rearing in
the spring and use TM seldom have AFB or EFB problems. For TM to be
effective for EFB it must be in the hive early before the normal time
for EFB to show up in any area. Here that is early spring before brood
rearing really gets started.

TM in grease patties is OK. The more sugar added to the patties the faster
they are consumed. The value of the grease may be in the slower
consumption so sugar should be limited to what it takes to attract the
bees if you want the patties to last.

                               ttul Andy-

---
 þ QMPro 1.53 þ ... When the bee-hive casts its swarm;

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From: [email-masked] (Andy Nachbaur)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:00:00 GMT

J>   I was curious about your statement about "melter" honey. I assume
 >disease spores...what am I missing here?

Hello Jeffrey,

I am sure that if the melter could be operated at a very low temperature
the problem could be minimized, but in all most all the common everyday
situations I have seen the honey from these melters is damaged by
over heating and caramelization and this honey will cause the bees
gastrointestinal problems if they can not fly and even if they can
fly it is not the best beekeeper supplied feed for bees.

The fact is Honey, even heat damaged honey, is too valuable to feed
bees. The honey should be sold, it has some value if it has not been
damaged to much, and sugar syrup purchased if at all possible.

In the old days we pressed the wax with big railroad jacks to remove 90%
more or less of the honey and stored the wax cakes to be melted outside
in the winter here which is cold and foggy enough to keep the bees in
for weeks at a time.

We then melted the wax cakes in hot water over a wood fired tank being
careful not to boil the wax and water over. Of course we were not
interested in saving the honey and it would caramelize and was a
wonderful weed killer keeping the drain ditch next to the melter Johnson
Grass clean for a hundred yards the next year.

I just have to say something about one of the dangers of melting wax
other then 99% of all old time beekeepers who made a business of
melting other peoples wax end up burning down their honey houses one
or more times. It is a fun thing to do, but it is something that has
a built in danger. If wax is boiled it will increase in total volume
and boil over and with the air added to the wax is very flammable and
will cause a flash fire that can bee disastrous. That's why we did it
outside in the open air a good distance from the honey house.

There is also the danger of burns from getting the melted wax on the
skin by accidents that do happen. I know no old beekeepers who has not
mistaken the 5 gallon of liquid wax for the 5 gallon hand washing
bucket and not dipped hands in only to realize a little late that thats
not the thing to do. I guess the replacement of 5 gallon cans with drums
and plastic buckets has limited this kind of activity to the good old
days.

The worst accident we had: Or the mouse gets revenge!

These cakes of wax in storage would of course attract mice and I must
admit we got some perverse pleasure out of once in awhile seeing them
jump around in the slow boiling wax vat. I am from the old school that
only buys mouse food that is guarantee to give them as much pain as
possible because of the nasty damage they have done to my bee equipment
if not controlled. We always had cats and dogs hanging around that liked
to catch these mice and kill and eat them.

One foggy morning when I was adding more cakes of wax to a tank half
filled with melted wax and boiling water the cat could not stand it any
longer and jumped into the tank after a mouse. I have never seen a cat
walk on water but this blessed cat did just that and ran straight up the
outside of the 12 foot smoke stack and took a flying leap to the ground
never stopping to leave any tracks and made straight for the barn.

We all though she had died a horrible death and she was not seen for a
month or more. When she finely came out looking for food and comfort she
had been able to remove most of the wax and her burns had healed up but
she had little hair left. In time the cat did recover fully and nice
white hair came back to replace the gray she once wore.

                           ttul Andy-

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(w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk.

---
 þ QMPro 1.53 þ ... A flash of dew, a bee or two,