Subject: HELP! Beehives and New Neighbors

From: [email-masked] (Dennis Yonke)
Date: 2 Apr 1996 01:13:43 GMT

Can anyone offer any suggestions about complaining new neighbors moving 
into an area and immediately making an issue about bees.

I have a one-acre "mini-farm" in a suburban area that was originally 
rural until the past 10-15 years, when urban sprawl swallowed up what was 
once a beautiful area of forests, meadows, and lakes.

I have over 100 fruit trees, berries, grapes, a large vegetable garden, 
many ornamental borders, a small pond, and generally love my home.  The 
property has been in my family since the 1940's, and my grandfather built 
the house in 1949.

Among my hobbies is beekeeping.  I have had bees since Ford was President,
 and my dad previously kept bees dating back to the 1920's, so I guess 
its just in my blood.  I do consider myself an amateur, because I keep 
bees basically for enjoyment, in order to have copious amounts of honey 
for personal, family use, and to give as gifts, and I have on occassion 
sold honey in small quantities, but this is not a regular practice.

At any rate, I presently have 12 hives located behind my orchard at the 
back end of my long, narrow lot, about 40 feet from the back lot line.  I 
have had up to 20 hives at a time back there.  The long-time neighbors on 
either side of me, both of whom have been here almost as long as I, have 
never had one complaint about my bees, and I've always been careful to 
make sure that everything's neat, tidy, and run properly.

Last year, developers purchased and bulldozed the 10 acre parcel of woods 
and meadow immediately behind me, and put in large, modern, expensive 
homes 3.5 to the acre.  These houses are on 60 x 80 lots, and four of 
them fit along my back lot line.  The back doors are about 35 feet from 
my lot line, and there is perhaps 12 feet between the homes side to side.

Yesterday, I had the "pleasure" of meeting one of my new neighbors, who 
came strolling into my yard unannounced and univited as I was doing some 
spring cleanup to specifically ask me whether I intended to still keep 
bees, have a vegetable garden (the bee hives sit in the back center of my 
vegetable garden), use mulch around my trees, keep up some "no 
tresspassing" signs I had posted to keep construction workers out of my 
yard, keep my back fence, plant a replacement tree where an evergreen had 
died last winter, etc..  He informed me, among other things, that my 
beehives and signs were "unsightly" from his back windows.  Needless to 
say, I was greatly displeased, but not really surprised, as I anticipated 
 just this type of problem.  In fact, I told my wife when I first learned 
>from  the township planning commission that they were putting in a 
subdivision that this would be nothing but trouble!

I am by nature very reserved, and I all in all just listened and held my 
tongue, but I would have loved to mention several things, like the fact 
that no one bothered to consult with me about whether or not I wanted to 
look at ugly houses, whether the deer wanted to be evicted from their 
home in the woods which were bulldozed, etc..  However, I said nothing, 
and intend, as long as possible, to say nothing and continue to do as I 
have always done. 

Anyway, I have absolutely no intention of giving up my bees unless forced 
to by a court of law.  At this point, there is no ordinance against bees 
in my community, and, as far as I know, there are no longer any state 
laws here in Michigan governing beekeeping, as a few years ago our 
inspection service was disbanded.  I did tell my "neighbor" that I was in 
complete compliance with all ordinances, and that I intended to keep my 
bees.  I also intend to keep mulching my trees, planting my garden, etc.. 
 I just can't imagine that someone who would behave in this manner!  I 
would never dream of moving to a new home and then start complaining 
about my neighbors, especially about things which have been around far 
longer than I.

Luckily, about 10 years ago, I did have the presence of mind to see this 
sort of thing comming, and I planted a row of then seedling fraser fir 
along my back lot line, and these trees are now about 5-6 feet tall, and 
within a few years will grow to make a dense screen.  Also, between the 
back of my garden and the trees is a 10 foot deep perennial and shrub 
border which is fairly dense in summer, but which is not too thick in 
winter after the perennials die down and the shrubs drop their foliage.

I am just utterly disgusted by this whole situation, but not surprised.  
Nor will I be surprised to expect similar from my other new "neighbors," 
when and if I meet them.  

Any suggestions about dealing with this situation would be much 
appreciated.  It is impossible for me to locate my bees anywhere else on 
my property, because among other reasons,  I have many fruit trees, and I 
am afraid of spray damage to the bees.  But beyond that, I don't feel why 
I should have to move my bees, or for that matter change anything else.  
After all, I was not only there first, but bees, gardens, and all were in 
plain view when the developers were selling these lots and building these 
houses, so no one can claim that they did not see or know what I have in 
my yard.   The first thing the developer did was to literally clearcut 
these lots, leaving the view wide open.

Any suggestions anyone may have would be greatly appreciated.  If anyone 
knows of any legal precidents about beekeepers' rights or responsibilties,
 that would be of great interest to me.  I just know that I'm going to 
get blamed, and probably sued, the first time someone in this new 
subdivision gets stung by a yellowjacket or a mosquito!  

 I have no intention of being told what I can and cannot do in my own 
yard, and I also have no intention of changing my lifestyle to accomodate 
some whiny newcomer.  As far as I'm concerned, if you can't take the heat,
 stay out of the kitchen, and if you can't tolerate "the country" stay in 
the damn city!  Things should get really interesting in a few weeks when 
I start spraying my fruit trees at 5:30 in the morning before the wind 
comes up!

At any rate, if you've read all this, thanks.  I don't really know if 
I've accomplished anything, but it feels good just to vent my frustration.
  Thanks,

Dennis

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From: Roger Urban EUC <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:07:45 GMT

[email-masked] (Dennis Yonke) wrote:
>beehives and signs were "unsightly" from his back windows. 

That's his problem, not yours. He's trying to make you think it's your problem,
and being rather rude and imposing about it. He is responsible for buying his
house, and if he didn't check out the neighborhood in advance then he created
his own problem. You could suggest to him that he has every right to plant lots
of trees in his back yard and maybe he should because the sight of his big ugly
house is disturbing to you.

Of course, he's lucky he didn't pull this kind of stunt with me...I probably
would have hauled a few junk cars and put them right back there along the fence
line so he could see. And, posted a few more signs, right next to the yellow
jacket and wasp hives that were real close to where he dared to trespass on my
property.

---

From: [email-masked] (Steve Rehrauer)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 18:41:49 GMT

>>into an area and immediately making an issue about bees.
[...]
>house is disturbing to you.

Hmmmm, I sympathise with your reaction, but I suspect Dennis hasn't
heard the last from this jerk.  So it *is* his problem, in a very
real sense.

If I were in Dennis' shoes, I'd be a little concerned that this guy
is going to try to get town or county authorities to come down on
the bees as a health hazard or some such meanness.  It might pay for
Dennis to have a little preemptive chat about this with said folks.

I don't suppose there's any chance of just reasoning with the guy...?

>jacket and wasp hives that were real close to where he dared to trespass on my

Rude busybodies who know how to play "the system" in their favor would
eventually win that scenario, I'll bet.
-- 
All software is bug-free, assuming          | Steve [email-masked]
 sufficiently clever definitions of         | Massachusetts Language Lab
 "feature" and "expected behaviour".        | USDA Zone 5, more or less

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From: [email-masked] (Robert Rhymer)
Date: 4 Apr 1996 02:10:15 GMT

Your situation sounds like mine a couple of years ago . Try being nice 
to the jerk the next time you run into him . Maybe a jar of honey and an 
education about bees . If that doesn't work you might want to check with 
local officials to be sure your within your rights to keep bees . Then go 
plant a nice row of bamboo between you and the jerk . In two or three 
years you'll have a thirty foot high privacy fence . Good luck .
                                                
                                                            Rob
-

---

From: Steve Bambara <[email-masked]>
Date: 3 Apr 1996 13:03:19 GMT

>into an area and immediately making an issue about bees.
Dennis,
	Wow, you were great!  I admire your self control and I think you 
handled it perfectly.  Do your best to not be antagonististic.  Let him
rant and rave if he must.
	I think the law will be on your side if you have been responsible
and you should be grandfathered in, even if there is a new ordinance.
Nothing is certain, however.
	To position yourself for a potential future problem, the things you
should do (and you really already have) are:
1) keep hives a "safe" distance from the property line
2) provide a fence or hedge around the bees
3) provide a water source on your property
4) do not overload the number of hives on your property

Now, remember, I really am on YOUR side of this argument, but 12 hives
on a one acre lot where you are may be a little high.  I wouldn't go
any higher.
	I think with the good record you have with your neighbors,
it would have weight in court.  Also, by doing the other things, it 
shows that you are keeping your bees in a responsible manner.  
The water supply may not be used by your bees, and there may not be
anything on the new development's property to attract bees, but
it is just part of the package.
Perhaps a real fence on the back property line would be in order, also.
	In summary,  the whole situation is unfair to you and the other guy
is an uninformed busybody.  However, life is not fair.  Do what you
can with dignity.
	If this ever does go to court, let us know and we will all try to help
you.  There are cases of precedent out there that could help you and
a one or two state beekeeper associations to lobby for you.

SB

***************************************************************
Steve Bambara  Dept. of Entomology, Box 7626, Raleigh, NC 27695
[email-masked]    (919) 515-1661    fax (919) 515-7273

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From: [email-masked] (David J Trickett)
Date: 4 Apr 1996 08:39:49 GMT

You might also consider having a preemptive chat with the other neighbors 
too.  If they moved into your area in the first place, they may have 
found it's ruralness attractive and thus be favorably pre-disposed toward 
bees if approached in a friendly manner (complete with mason jar of last 
year's crop).

The guy you wrote about sounds like someone with the potential to alienate
everyone else (i.e., newcomers too) so why not meet the other folks first,
and help him hang himself. 

dave t.

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From: [email-masked] (Warlock)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:05:22 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> Steve Bambara <[email-masked]> writes:
>From: Steve Bambara <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Re: HELP!  Beehives and New Neighbors
>Date: 3 Apr 1996 13:03:19 GMT

>handled it perfectly. 

snip....

>Perhaps a real fence on the back property line would be in order, 

> However, life is not fair.  Do what you can with dignity.

There is an old saying "That good fences make good neighbors"  unfortunately 
today that is another meaningless rural expression.  There are more of *them* 
that there are of us.  When he complains he will get attention.  

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Warlock 			Wolf #3
[email-masked]	FLSTC
Lurking in the shadows
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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From: Steve Bambara <[email-masked]>
Date: 4 Apr 1996 12:56:39 GMT

[email-masked] (David J Trickett) wrote:
>too. 

	Dave has a great suggestion.  If the other neighbors meet you first
and you are nice to them, the unkind fellow can't prejudice them
against you.

---

From: [email-masked] (Doug Johnson)
Date: 4 Apr 1996 19:37:11 GMT

Steve Bambara ([email-masked]) wrote:
% [email-masked] (David J Trickett) wrote:
% >You might also consider having a preemptive chat with the other neighbors 
% >too. 
% >The guy you wrote about sounds like someone with the potential to alienate
% >everyone else (i.e., newcomers too) so why not meet the other folks first,
% >and help him hang himself. 
% >
% >
% >dave t.

% 	Dave has a great suggestion.  If the other neighbors meet you first
% and you are nice to them, the unkind fellow can't prejudice them
% against you.

I also think this is a good idea.  I would also do as much as possible
to at least appear you heard the new neighbors complaints.  Do a few
changes and take pictures.  That way if you ever do end up in court or
something you can say "Look I have been making good faith efforts and
this guy is just a jerk."  In my experience they look to see who makes
the greatest effort to compromise.  For that we want the ball in your
court.

Good luck and keep us updated as thing progress.

--
Doug
[email-masked]

	Any day I wake up
	without a tag on
	my toe is a good day!