Subject: Help me please

From: Mike Carbiener <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:59:36 -0700

I received a 4-5 lb swarm about a week ago which I promptly put in a 
hive. I noticed when I put them in that they split into two groups, 
each clustering towards opposite sides of the super.  When I went back 
a week later, about half the bees had left and moved into the side of 
someones house. When I opened the brood chamber, I couldnt find the 
queen nor did I see any eggs or larva. There was plenty of pollen and 
nectar though and the start of a couple of queen cells.
My questions are, could it be possible I had two queens?  Why did the 
queen abandon my hive?  Why did half of the bees stay?  Why are they 
building queen cells if there are no eggs, do I have laying workers?
Should I order a new queen or wait a week and reinspect? And finally, 
how do I get the bees out of the side of these people's house without 
killing them or tearing apart their wall.  I'm a starving student so 
hiring a bee remover is going to kill me. I have access to another 
healthy hive, should I remove a frame of brood and place it in my 
hive? and if so how do I do it so that the two groups of bees don't 
fight?
Thanks for your help
-- 
Mike Carbiener

http://www.netcom.com/~bermshot/

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From: "Nathan Stamey Winesett" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:41:34 -0400

Mike:

Queens that are just mated can still fly.  I've experienced this when
trying to grab them out of my mating boxes and they fly off, but they
always return to the mating box.  If it was a swarm you received, then the
queen is able to fly.  Where the queen flies, the elder bees will follow. 
Young bees will generally stay where you put them if there is larvae
present.  While bees are in a swarm, scout bees search for a permanent
home.  Inside a hollow wall is an ideal place for bees, similar to a
hollow tree.  Maybe that's what happened.

Despite what happened(which is hard to determine), if you don't have good
eggs and larvae but plenty of bees, put a few frames of eggs, young
larvae, and emerging brood in there from you're other hive so they can
raise a cell.  Queen cells developed from a laying worker egg won't work.

Nathan

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From: Dave Black <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:22:41 +0100

In article <[email-masked]>, Mike Carbiener
<[email-masked]> writes
>
>My questions are, could it be possible I had two queens?
Very unlikely
>  Why did the 
>queen abandon my hive?
Bees that are swarming already have a pretty good idea where they are
going, they don't just leave on the off chance. They just continued on
their way. If you want to be sure of keeping them next time use a QX for
couple of days to keep the queen in. Even if they leave then they'll
have to go back ! There are other dodges too, especially when you keep
bees in a city like I do. Your neighbours definately don't want them
leaving !
>  Why did half of the bees stay?
I don't know. Maybe they weren't paying attention and got lost ! :-)
>  Why are they 
>building queen cells if there are no eggs,
Bees do funny things. :-)
> do I have laying workers?
Obviously not, yet. You haven't got ANY eggs right. A clue about laying
workers though; because they have a shorter abdomens their eggs are
often on the cell walls, not the bottom and you get one or two per cell.
>Should I order a new queen
Don't waste your money. You don't know what the bees are like and can
grow one of your own. Maybe after then you might.
> or wait a week and reinspect?
Good plan. Feed them sugar syrup, a queen if there is one will only come
ito lay if there's income. Put in a frame of eggs and very young (open,
@ 2/3 days) larvae. If they haven't got a queen they will know and start
queen cells quickly, select one or two and , hey presto in about 4 weeks
you should have a new queen in lay. If they don't start cells they have
a queen even if you can't find her. 
> And finally, 
>killing them or tearing apart their wall.
There are routine ways of doing this with a porter bee escape and/or a
bait hive. I see this dicussed in another thread in the Newsgroup, check
out Michael Moronay's posting. 
>  I have access to another 
>healthy hive, should I remove a frame of brood
( you mean larvae don't you ?)
> and place it in my 
>hive?
Yup. See above
> and if so how do I do it so that the two groups of bees don't 
>fight?
Hold the frame lug tightly in one hand, then hit that hand with your
other one. Do it over the box. This jars the bees off the frame into the
box. Once you have the knack you'll do it in one go, and don't worry
about the odd bee. Now stick the frame into the other hive.
>Thanks for your help
Hope its useful.

-- 
Dave Black
Blacks Bee Gardens, 
Guildford, GU1 4RN.  UK.

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From: [email-masked] (PWestall)
Date: 2 Jul 1996 14:54:24 -0400

Yes you had two virgin queens I'd say. But it could possibly be two mated
queens, but most unlikely.

How to get bees out of a wall? Get hold of ABZ of beekeeping from a
library. there is a method in there but it involves a small hive
(nucleus). If you can get to a library of some worth it may have back
numbers of Bee Craft. Or you can write to me at:

!, Rushford Avenue, Wombourne, wolverhampton, WV5 0HZ, UK and I'll give
you a scanned version of one of my back numbers. I've done it, It works.

Christopher Westall