From sals@rain.orgTue Dec 10 14:58:16 1996
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:07:46 -0800
From: sal <sals@rain.org>
To: Tracy Aquilla <aquilla@erols.com>
Cc: Tracy Aquilla:  ;
Subject: Re: Organic? From what source?

those are good points Tracy here are some ideas. I like being certified by
CCOF it is voluntary and people respect them.  I think the industry should
regulate itself as it has.  I don't think the state of feds should tax
organic farmers for selling their stuff.  My solution to this problem is
regulate the certifiers and set the standards so the certifiers have a
level playing field.  it should not cost that much money to set the
standards and that way every one will know what the US feels is organic.
They should be able to set the standards and not charge much money just for
a definition of what organic is and if they want to register the certifiers
ok and it should not cost that much and let the certifiers do what they
have been doing so well. 
     I like what the  ORGANIC ORGANIZER Issue # 4, November, 1996 says
"Local or regional certifiers are closest to the heartbeat of certified
organic farmers and handlers and can provide the best quality management
systems for certification of farms and handling operations. It is mandatory
that all accredited organic certifiers maintain the highest level of
professionalism, integrity, accountability and independence from even
perceived conflict of interest no matter what size. 

Problems: The cost of accreditation paid by USDA accredited certifiers will
be charged to certified organic farms and handling operations in the
certification fee, and could be excessive because of inefficiencies in the
USDA accreditation process. 

Small organic certifying businesses will be unduly burdened by the same
compliance costs, staff time and timetables that larger certifiers can
easily meet and recover. 

Proposals: The Proposed Rule needs to outline a management system for
accreditation of certifying agents that contains a clear, concise and
simple procedure for application, review, determination of eligibility and
appeal of an accreditation ruling. The performance criteria for
establishing a quality management system for certification applicants under
the USDA/NOP needs to be explicit. 

Exceptions need to be made for small certifying businesses to be accredited
once every 5 years only. A certifying agency with over 125 applicants per
year or $45,000 gross income (including inspection fees) on the average or
with more than two farms with over $500,000 or one farm over $1,000,000 in
gross sales should be accredited every other year, i.e. every second year.
The statistics on projected gross sales should be part of the confidential
business information certifiers collect in determining that sales is not
exceeding capacity of production. 

Fees charged of candidates for USDA accreditation need to be based on
determining the number of farm and handling operation applicants on the
average over the preceding 2 years (or projected to be certified by the
certifier over 2 years) and pro-rating a USDA/NOP quote for accreditation
services to each projected farmer and handler on a yearly basis. 

Fees charged by the USDA/NOP should only be assessed to pay for the
USDA/NOP services of accrediting each certifying agent. 

Accreditation cost to certifying agents should be proportioned on a yearly
basis per the accreditation cycle and paid at the end of the calendar year
upon invoice. 

All other performance criteria, compliance and reporting requirements
should be applied equally to all applicants for accreditation by the
USDA/NOP."

me again 
also all state money charged to farmers should be stopped as there is no
reason for double taxation of the poor farmer there is only one thing
called organic and the farmer should pay only once and fill out paper work
only once.  just a few ideas 



At 09:56 AM 12/10/96 EDT, you wrote:


>I strongly support organic farmers, and until fairly recently was one myself.
>Unfortunately, I see a lot of redundant complaints here and not a single
>suggestion of ways to solve the perceived "problem". Do you think organic
>certification should be eliminated completely? If so, it would be easy for
>anyone to claim their products are organic when in fact they aren't. Fraud
>on consumers, distributors, wholesalers, and retailers would be rampant.
>That's why certification programs were implemented in the first place, to
>prevent such fraud. If you can accept that organic certification is a good
>thing, you must also realize that such programs cost money. Somebody has to
>pay those inspectors. Who should pay for this? Taxing the general public
>would be unfair because only a fraction of US citizens consume organic goods
>(such a tax would never make it through congress anyway). The most
>reasonable way to pay for certification programs is to pass the cost of
>certification on to the consumers of organic products. I suppose we could
>put a tax on organic foods (see above comment on the liklihood of passng
>such a tax). Would you like that any better? It would probably cost more to
>do things that way, which is why instead we simply charge the growers who
>wish to be certified, and allow them to pass that cost to consumers, just as
>retail food establishments such as restaurants must pay for their own health
>inspections. If you don't like that, you don't have to be certified and you
>can still be an organic grower. You could forgo certification and sell your
>crop as non-organic, as non-certified organic, or as pesticide-free instead.
>But do you think consumers would want to pay the same price for your goods
>if they weren't certified organic? I doubt many would, but if so, then just
>don't be certified. Then you wouldn't have to pay the "organic taxes", and
>you could still sell your crop at the same price, AND you'd have a higher
>profit margin (no extra taxes), AND it would still be an organic crop, with
>all the benefits to the environment! After all, isn't that what being
>organic is really all about? People who truly care about the environment are
>willing to make sacrifices. That's why many consumers of organic products
>are willing to pay a higher price for those goods.
>Tracy
>
>
An organic farmers home page check it out
http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html

From sals@rain.orgTue Dec 10 14:59:31 1996
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 16:15:47 -0800
From: sal <sals@rain.org>
To: Tracy Aquilla:  ;
Subject: Re: Organic? From what source?

>To: Organic Gardening Discussion List <OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU>, Multiple
recipients of list OGL <OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU>, sustang public
>From: sal <sals@rain.org>
>Subject: Re: Organic? From what source?
>
>I grow organic and am certified by CCOF and also have to pay the state of 
>Ca. to sell organic soon the feds will also tax us to sell organic and
this is way too much regulation.  CCOF inspects my farm every year and I
have to show them my book so they can see what comes in and is put on the
land...I also pay them a percent of my income and also pay dues and also
pay an inspector and I am also FORCED pay the state of Ca. a percent of my
income and soon I will have to pay the feds an extra tax also so I can sell
organic all for the same dam thing that I am organic. The more government
people that say if I am organic the more I have to pay.  pay pay pay I
don't like to be forced to pay anyone to sell my organic crop as organic .
I just have a small farm and I feel every cent I have to spend to prove I
am organic.  If they don't believe CCOF why should any one trust the state
or the feds.  its is just to much.  why should organic farmers have to pay
a tax just to sell their stuff as organic.  I have been selling my stuff
organic for years and every year it cost more and more just to prove I am
honest  yet my income is not going up and I don't have a food factory farm
with high inputs high outputs I just have a small farm with very low inputs
close to none and  the gov. should recognize organic farming for the good
it does and not tax them. You will not see organic farmers using herbicide
so herbicides  will not show up in peoples drinking water and what does the
gov. regulate (organic farmers) you will not see pesticide in our food or
our baby food but who does the government tax and regulate (the organic
farmer) you will not see organic farmers using methyl bromide taking away
the ozone and yet who does the government want to regulate (the organic
farmer) the farm or school or homes next to us does not have to worry about
pesticide drift from us and the farm next to us will be able to sell their
products at any time yet if we are next to a farm not organic we cannot
sell the crops that are next to them  why because they contaminate us .
Its not us that are the contaminator it is them that contaminate us.  We
are the contaminated by them  they are the contaminator.  The USDA says we
can not have spray yet they spray us from the air.  They say we cannot have
genetic engendered insects or plants yet they release gene altered stuff
that may find its way to our farm.  It is not the organic farmer that
should pay a extra tax as we are not the contaminator yet they let the
contaminator regulate the contaminatee. It is just  Back words from how it
should be.  They should regulate their own selves.  We organic farmer made
the standards by farming organic they just define it and frame it and call
it law and force us to pay them a tax/ yet do nothing to help us stay
organic because they are the ones releasing the contaminators but take our
hard earn money.  I think I was happy when people see I am CCOF as this was
voluntary the state and the feds now force us to pay and no one likes to be
singled out for a tax when they are doing what they feel is right .  If the
government wants to check my produce check it just do not charge me money.
When  I was young I use to run cars at the track.  Some folks would cheat
and if you thought someone was cheating you pay to tare them down and check
them out and if they were cheating they pay the fine but if they were not
cheating and if they were telling  the truth you don't charge them for
being honest.  I don't think we should have to pay 1 cent to sell organic
if we are telling the truth. Let them make a standard and let them pay to
enforce it not the poor man that is being honest.  Its is time they
recognize organic farming as the purest form of sustainable ag. and as
something good and not tax it.  How many bureaucratic paper pushers does it
take and how much does one have to pay these Mafia protection pushers just
to prove we are organic. I say not one cent!!!  Instead let the
contaminators pay as they are doing the contaminating not organic farmers.  
> >
>>>Frankly, all this business of certification and guarantees of this and
>>that quality being >guaranteed is, besides appealing to Big Brother to
>>protect us, underlain with the >assumption that our food system WILL
>>NEVER BE SUSTAINABLE,
>>
>>Dan-
>
An organic farmers home page check it out
http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html
